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15:45	greg-g	@now
15:46	greg-g	!now
15:46	ubotu	Current time in Etc/UTC: January 15 2008, 15:46:16 - Next meeting: IRC Council in 9 hours 13 minutes
15:46	ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about now - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
15:46	Hobbsee	@schedule sydney
15:46	ubotu	Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 16 Jan 12:00: IRC Council | 16 Jan 23:00: Edubuntu meeting | 18 Jan 01:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 23:00: MOTU | 24 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu meeting | 30 Jan 23:00: Edubuntu meeting
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16:19	Seveas	@now
16:19	ubotu	Current time in Etc/UTC: January 15 2008, 16:19:13 - Next meeting: IRC Council in 8 hours 40 minutes
16:19	Seveas	@schedule Amsterda,
16:19	Seveas	@schedule Amsterdam
16:19	ubotu	Schedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 16 Jan 02:00: IRC Council | 16 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 13:00: MOTU | 23 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 30 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting
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19:00	mr_pouit	@schedule Paris
19:00	ubotu	Schedule for Europe/Paris: 16 Jan 02:00: IRC Council | 16 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 13:00: MOTU | 23 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 30 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting
19:36	nxvl_work	@schedule Lima
19:36	ubotu	Schedule for America/Lima: 15 Jan 20:00: IRC Council | 16 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 09:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 07:00: MOTU | 23 Jan 15:00: Edubuntu meeting | 30 Jan 07:00: Edubuntu meeting
20:01	emonkey	@now
20:01	ubotu	Current time in Etc/UTC: January 15 2008, 20:01:52 - Next meeting: IRC Council in 4 hours 58 minutes
20:02	Lure	@schedule Ljubljana
20:02	ubotu	Schedule for Europe/Ljubljana: 16 Jan 02:00: IRC Council | 16 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting | 17 Jan 15:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Jan 13:00: MOTU | 23 Jan 21:00: Edubuntu meeting | 30 Jan 13:00: Edubuntu meeting
20:03	Keybuk	mdz: TB time?
20:05	mjg59	Evening
20:06	mdz	Keybuk: yep
20:06	mdz	#startmeeting
20:06	MootBot	Meeting started at 20:06. The chair is mdz.
20:06	MootBot	Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
20:07	mdz	sabdfl sent apologies
20:07	mdz	[TOPIC] Component status of Xubuntu (main vs. universe)
20:07	MootBot	New Topic:  Component status of Xubuntu (main vs. universe)
20:08	mdz	there has been some discussion about whether it would be a good idea to build Xubuntu from main+universe rather than only main
20:08	mdz	meaning that Xubuntu-specific packages could move to universe
20:09	mjg59	Doing so would seem a fairly clear clarification of what's already the status-quo - Canonical don't support Xubuntu
20:09	Keybuk	the obvious advantage being that more people could work on Xubuntu-specific packages?
20:09	mdz	in my view, this would benefit the Xubuntu community by enabling more people to contribute (any MOTU), and benefit Canonical by clarifying its support status
20:09	mjg59	(Unless my misunderstanding is correct)
20:09	mjg59	Uhm.
20:09	mdz	mjg59: ...
20:09	mjg59	Understanding. Incorrect.
20:09	mdz	mjg59: your first message to this channel during the meeting is factually correct
20:09	Keybuk	mdz: that is it Evening? :)
20:10	Lure	Keybuk: depending on TZ
20:10	mdz	Keybuk: see a few lines below for the start of the meeting ;-)
20:10	mdz	anyway, I talked with mr_pouit and gpocentek in #ubuntu-devel before the meeting
20:10	mdz	I'm happy for them to chime in here if they have more to say
20:10	mdz	but here's what I got:
20:11	mdz	<gpocentek> mdz: mr_pouit is the leader, so I'd like to ear from him
20:11	mdz	<mr_pouit> I don't have a strong opinion against that. If there are these facilities to build from universe, why not?
20:12	mdz	that's about it
20:12	somerville32	I'm a member of the xubuntu-team
20:12	somerville32	and I'd like to raise a few issues I see with migrating to Universe
20:12	mdz	somerville32: by all means
20:12	gpocentek	like mdz said, having xfce in main was mainly because universe iso builds were not supported
20:13	gpocentek	(during dapper dev cycle that was)
20:13	somerville32	I think the issue is bigger than just moving Xubuntu to universe. I have serious concerns about designating "main" as the archive that holds packages supported by Canonical.
20:13	mdz	indeed, I did raise the point that Xubuntu originally migrated from universe to main because our derivative-building system only worked that way.  that's now changed, and Ubuntu Studio is happily building from universe
20:13	mjg59	somerville32: That's always been the traditional distinction made
20:13	mjg59	In some cases it's been less true, due to technical issues with building releases that way
20:14	mdz	[LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
20:14	MootBot	LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
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20:15	somerville32	To help set the stage, I'd like to ask a few questions to help validate my premise
20:15	somerville32	Ubuntu is a separate entity from Canonical, correct? Canonical is a third-party that supports the development of the Ubuntu distribution.
20:15	mdz	main means "will get critical fixes" and (with the exception of Xubuntu) "commercial support available from Canonical"
20:16	mdz	"will get critical fixes" is credible because Canonical provides them
20:16	somerville32	What if other companies wish to fill a similar role to Canonical? How would the Ubuntu developers facilitate that?
20:17	somerville32	Would their packages be promoted to main as well?
20:17	mdz	somerville32: Ubuntu is a project.  Canonical is a commercial company which provides backing for Ubuntu, and occupies a privileged position in the ecosystem because of that
20:18	mjg59	somerville32: Certain key parts of infrastructure are run by Canonical or only available to Canonical employees. As a result, as Matt says, their status is special
20:18	mdz	somerville32: I think that if there were such a company, we would need some way to distinguish their guarantees from Canonical's
20:19	mdz	"main" isn't specific enough in that scenario
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20:19	mdz	e.g. if you buy a support contract from company X, it covers foo/bar/baz, but from Canonical it covers bleem/snue/etc.
20:20	mdz	and when a security vulnerability is found, who is expected to provide a fix?
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20:21	gpocentek	I don't think that a company wants to xupport xubuntu now anyway
20:21	gpocentek	support*
20:21	mdz	somerville32: the way it works today, there are other companies which provide services for Ubuntu, but there has been no conflict in how they define their offerings
20:21	gpocentek	so it's maybe a bit OT
20:21	Lure	mdz: it would be good to improve this page: http://www.canonical.com/projects
20:22	Lure	mdz: it is still not clear what is supported in derivatives
20:22	mdz	Lure: I agree
20:22	Lure	and it would probably make sense to introduce "offical" derivatives - like approved by TB/CC side
20:23	Lure	xubuntu maybe being first candidate
20:23	mdz	Canonical offers "support" to the community developing Xubuntu, through hosting for example, but doesn't "support" Xubuntu (with commercial support contracts)
20:23	Lure	mdz: something like that
20:23	somerville32	My concern, the first of a small number, is that the main repository for Ubuntu, a community project, is actually a commercial company's repository. This concern asks me if maybe the model in which we do things (ie. see Keybuk's proposal to merge universe and main) needs to be re-thinked instead of moving Xubuntu to universe.
20:23	mdz	Lure: thanks for pointing that out; I will follow it up with the folks responsible for that site
20:23	Keybuk	somerville32: I haven't made a proposal yet, just a strawman
20:23	somerville32	s/proposal/strawman
20:24	mdz	[ACTION] mdz to follow up regarding http://www.canonical.com/projects
20:24	MootBot	ACTION received:  mdz to follow up regarding http://www.canonical.com/projects
20:24	Lure	mdz: I talked with cjwatson before, so he opened bug 172672
20:24	ubotu	Launchpad bug 172672 in canonical-website "http://www.canonical.com/projects claims that Xubuntu is supported by Canonical" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172672
20:24	highvoltage	~.
20:25	mdz	somerville32: I think there is definitely room for reconsidering how we organize the repository, but it is orthogonal to this issue
20:25	somerville32	It would seem more community orientated if the focus was taken off the commercial support that Canonical provides and more to the support the community is willing to provide when determining the taxonomy of our packages.
20:25	mdz	whether Xubuntu is built from main or universe, it won't matter if we reorganize the repository
20:25	somerville32	mdz, I'm just wondering if that issue should be tackled first before we decide to move Xubuntu to universe
20:25	Keybuk	somerville32: I don't see a particular ordering constraint hee
20:25	mdz	Lure: thanks
20:25	mdz	[LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/172672
20:25	somerville32	Because the rationale for moving Xubuntu to universe is that Canonical does not offer support for it
20:25	MootBot	LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/172672
20:26	Keybuk	somerville32: and that the move would allow more developers to work on it
20:26	mdz	somerville32: that is one half of the rationale
20:26	Lure	somerville32: what is your concern with the move - I see lots of benefits (motu's can contribute, less push on getting core-dev's)
20:26	ubotu	Launchpad bug 172672 in canonical-website "http://www.canonical.com/projects claims that Xubuntu is supported by Canonical" [Undecided,New]
20:26	mdz	Lure: no more MIRs...
20:26	_MMA_	Lure: Its not of a technical nature.
20:27	somerville32	As I said earlier, the standards level for Universe is not parallel to that of Main.
20:27	Keybuk	standards level?
20:27	gpocentek	*sigh*
20:27	Keybuk	universe is certainly supposed to be the same standard of package as main
20:27	gpocentek	wil we stop working on xfce packages because it's in universe?
20:27	mr_pouit	and we won't stop testing either
20:27	_MMA_	somerville32: Then as a team, I would challenge you guys to do QA on the packages you care about.
20:27	Lure	somerville32: being in main just raises expectations of commercial support that is not there
20:28	mdz	somerville32: while it's possible for us to define overlapping levels of commitment to different packages (commercial support, security updates, ...) we would much prefer to keep it simple, and have just "main" and "not main"
20:28	mjg59	somerville32: Unless you think people who were previously working on XFCE are going to drop their standards, I don't see this as a problem
20:28	mdz	and everyone agree on what that means
20:28	Lure	somerville32: or are you concerned that other non-xubuntu motu's would mess with your packages?
20:29	mdz	I think it's important for the services around Ubuntu to be easily understood by users
20:29	mdz	in many cases, it's already an uphill battle because in some cases, users need to understand the free software model
20:29	somerville32	There is a perception that Universe has lower standards and that it is okay to not test it like you would a package in main.
20:29	mdz	(one of those clauses could go)
20:30	somerville32	Do I think that the people contribution now will contribute at a lower level of quality, no
20:30	somerville32	But part of the rationale for the move is that more people can get involved.
20:30	somerville32	Do I really believe that MOTUs are you going to install the xubuntu-desktop so that they can properly test changes? No. If anything, people will just be trying to up their upload count like mr_pouit said.
20:31	mdz	somerville32: are you concerned that the quality of Xubuntu will change for the worse?
20:31	somerville32	I feel moving any package to Universe currently puts it's quality in question, unfortunately.
20:31	gpocentek	somerville32: that's something that can be handled by the xubuntu team, keeping the package in main just mean that we don't trust people
20:32	Lure	somerville32: if you think that, then we have more generic problem and should be solved
20:32	somerville32	Lure, i agree with you.
20:32	mdz	the only reason to be more relaxed about universe is that there is not a strong support and maintenance commitment behind it
20:32	mdz	and that's already not the case with Xubuntu
20:32	Lure	somerville32: personally I think that universe is as good as much as particular motus care about particular packages
20:33	Lure	somerville32: since xubuntu-team would still care for xubuntu packages, I do not see that this should mean lower quality though
20:34	mdz	we are discussing, for post-8.04, ways to classify packages in a finer-grained way
20:34	somerville32	Is Xubuntu the only packages in Main right now that do not have Canonical support?
20:34	mdz	e.g., this set of software is covered by a standard support contract, this (super)set carries a commitment to updates, this (super)set has active maintainers, etc.
20:35	somerville32	Because I heard from someone in Montreal that main has became populated with a number of packages that do not carry actual support.
20:35	mdz	somerville32: support isn't defined strictly in terms of packages
20:35	mdz	but the XFCE desktop is not covered
20:36	mdz	somerville32: we very much want to say that all of the software in main is covered
20:36	mdz	and we want to correct the small number of cases where that is not true
20:36	mdz	for 8.04 and beyond
20:37	somerville32	The stem of my argument comes from my disagreement that main should not be composed of packages supported by Canonical and instead by packages supported by core-dev
20:37	mdz	this is what I mean when I talk about making it simple for users
20:37	Lure	mdz: I think int would be good to clean it up then completely and not just xubuntu
20:37	Keybuk	somerville32: how would you instead define the difference between main and universe?
20:37	mdz	right now it's hard to understand what's covered and what's not, they need to talk to us about it
20:37	Lure	and probably there should be note on http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components about commercial support
20:37	mjg59	somerville32: I don't believe that's something the TB clearly have the power to change
20:37	mdz	somerville32: packages in main come with a guarantee
20:39	gpocentek	could we come to a decision about Xubuntu for the moment? :)
20:40	somerville32	And thats why I question the entire model at this time but since that is a tangent of this discussion, I can only say that perhaps you should move forward with moving Xubuntu to universe but I doubt that it will actual result in more contributors besides the odd individual looking to get their package count increased. mr_pouit and gpocentrek have been very responsive when dealing with the xubuntu related packages in the ubuntu-
20:40	somerville32	main-sponsors.
20:40	mdz	gpocentek: somerville32 has raised some concerns, and I would like to include him in the consensus
20:40	somerville32	so I don't see it as lowering the barrier
20:40	gpocentek	sure
20:41	somerville32	The only thing I see this move doing is satisfying Canonical's current model
20:41	Lure	somerville32: it makes it more clear also for users
20:41	mdz	somerville32: I commend them on their responsiveness, but in universe, any new developers who might want to work on Ubuntu would have an easier time joining MOTU than joining core-dev
20:42	somerville32	mdz, Yes, it would be beneficial to me in that regard as I move forward to apply for MOTU-ship in a few months
20:42	Lure	somerville32: currently, users might be mislead and expecting for something which is not there
20:43	somerville32	However, I'd ask that the TB do not drop the ball on evaluating the current model and usefulness of some of the strawmans that have been presented.
20:43	mdz	I think that the induction process for MOTU is strong, and enabling MOTU developers to contribute to Xubuntu is appropriate
20:43	mdz	do you object to allowing MOTU to upload XFCE packages?
20:44	mdz	somerville32: I definitely acknowledge that the model is confusing, and part of the justification for this proposal is that we want to simplify it
20:44	somerville32	It isn't so much allowing MOTUs to upload Xfce4 packages, it is the the current perception of some developers
20:44	mdz	I'm open to further discussion about how we organize and communicate about our commitments (as a project, and on behalf of Canonical)
20:44	mdz	but I do think it's a separate issue
20:45	mdz	what we're aiming for here is that users get what they expect
20:45	mdz	and it's much easier to change what we do to match their expectations than to change their expectations
20:46	somerville32	mdz, Are you saying that Canonical is frequently getting support requests for Xfce4 packages?
20:46	mdz	somerville32: not specifically, but we do get the question "what is supported and what isn't?"
20:46	mdz	which is a question which should have a simple answer
20:47	mdz	I don't know how often we get inquiries about Xubuntu specifically
20:48	somerville32	By fear, that I think is a true one, is that because there is a big push to distinguish certain packages as Canonical supported (ie. main) a stigma has developed for Universe
20:48	mdz	but I can say that it's very likely not enough to justify the cost of providing the support, or it would be offered
20:48	somerville32	By putting the expectation that main has high standards than Universe, Universe _will_ have lower standards
20:48	somerville32	s/By fear/My fear
20:49	Lure	somerville32: but having security patch commitment actually means higher standards
20:49	mdz	I think it's OK for universe to have less rigidity
20:49	mdz	developers should be able to work freely except where there is an overriding concern
20:49	Lure	somerville32: but it does not mean that you cannot provide security patches for xubuntu, afair
20:49	mdz	in the case of main, the overriding concern is that users demand a commitment
20:49	mdz	particularly commercial users
20:50	mdz	users do not demand such a commitment for all of the software in Ubuntu, only a subset
20:50	mdz	and we try to codify the subset for which that commitment is justified, in main
20:50	somerville32	Then to help keep the focus on community, I hope we move to a different model so that "main ubuntu packages" is not synonymous to "canonical support packages".
20:51	mdz	I sympathize with your position, but I think it's very difficult to tease apart "backed by a commitment from Ubuntu" with "backed by a commitment from Canonical"
20:51	mdz	because, fundamentally, someone needs to take commercial responsibility for that commitment
20:52	mdz	and presently, that is Canonical
20:52	somerville32	To me, I find that somewhat demoralizing as a _community_ contributor.
20:53	mdz	somerville32: how so?
20:53	somerville32	First off, I'm very thankful for Canonical's commitment and support to help make Ubuntu awesome
20:53	no0tic	@now
20:53	ubotu	Current time in Etc/UTC: January 15 2008, 20:53:42 - Next meeting: IRC Council in 4 hours 6 minutes
20:53	somerville32	But I take pride and ownership in Ubuntu too as a community contributor since Ubutnu is a community project.
20:54	mdz	when Canonical commits to support something, it means that even if it is abandoned by its maintainers, Canonical is prepared to devote resources to filling the gap
20:55	mdz	we owe a lot to the developers of Linux, but they simply don't care anymore about Linux 2.6.15.  Canonical, however, backports patches to it week after week, to ensure continuous maintenance for Ubuntu users
20:55	mdz	somerville32: as well you should!
20:55	somerville32	So I'm naturally concerned when things are shifted away from the community and into commercial hands
20:56	mdz	somerville32: but that doesn't mean that Ubuntu users can hold you responsible for everything you do
20:56	mdz	if they have a problem, and you can't help them, or don't want to, that's your choice
20:56	somerville32	Right
20:57	mdz	Canonical doesn't have that choice
20:57	Lure	somerville32: in which point you feel things are shifted from community to commercial?
20:58	mdz	and Canonical pays its staff to be on call to respond, 24x7
20:58	somerville32	If Ubuntu, the community, was able to give commitment to a number of packages (ie. main) and Canonical was easily able to tag packages/software solutions that they support, I feel the focus would still be on the community resolving my concerns
20:58	Lure	somerville32: fact is that Canonical has from its position (historical and present) more control over the project, but that does not mean it should impact community work much
20:58	mdz	that doesn't make the contributions of the community any less valuable
20:58	mdz	we wouldn't even have a product without the community
20:59	mdz	but the community can't have customers, while Canonical can
20:59	mdz	and the fact that Canonical exists to service those customers is a key part of the vision of Ubuntu
20:59	mdz	in some ways, Canonical is just another contributor to Ubuntu
20:59	mdz	but in other ways, it's a fundamental part of the project
21:00	somerville32	I see where you're coming from mdz and I think all your points are completely legitimate but my concern is with the focus on the "It is either supported by Canonical or it is not"
21:00	mdz	and there wouldn't be an Ubuntu without Canonical either
21:00	_MMA_	mdz: Then this is where it might be better to have 1 repo and a list of packages Canonical supports.
21:00	la_petite_Gogole	cody
21:00	Lure	mdz: + strong commercial support/funding by Canonical brings more trust to community that it worth contributing as there is some logivity expected behind
21:00	somerville32	la_petite_Gogole, ugh... yes?
21:00	mdz	_MMA_: and that is something we are actively looking at, but it is a long term idea
21:01	mdz	_MMA_: there's nothing we can do in that direction for 8.04
21:01	mjg59	somerville32: Rationalising the current situation doesn't prevent us from altering things in the long run
21:01	mdz	and decisions we make with 8.04 will be with us through 2013
21:01	mjg59	But with an LTS release coming up, we do need to make it clear what's supported now
21:01	_MMA_	mdz: Understandable.
21:02	mdz	_MMA_: Keybuk's proposal is a step in the right direction, and I'd like to see our repositories match the way we think about software
21:02	mdz	but we're stuck with main+universe for 8.04, and so the best we can do is make main+universe easy to understand
21:02	somerville32	fair enough
21:03	mdz	not that it's that bad
21:03	mdz	(or else I'd have myself to blame in no small part...)
21:03	Lure	mdz: ;-)
21:04	mdz	somerville32: would you feel more confident in this if we set an explicit goal to revisit how we define the repository for 8.10+?
21:04	mdz	when we have some freedom to make changes?
21:04	somerville32	mdz, Yes, very much so
21:04	_MMA_	Im honestly a little shocked to hear such a low opinion of Universe from Cody as all the Ubuntu Studio packages are there and I know the work we and other MOTU put into them. Id put 'em up aginst any Main package. :P
21:05	mdz	mjg59,Keybuk: would you be OK with us making such a commitment on behalf of the project?
21:05	somerville32	I think things are changing for the better, _MMA_
21:05	_MMA_	We've even found bugs in Main packages because our packages (based on Ubuntu-Main ones) were rejected by archive admins. :P
21:05	Keybuk	mdz: given rearranging the repository is my own pet mission, yes ;-)
21:06	mjg59	I'm unwilling to commit to it happening for 8.10 (or any specific release), but yes, I think this does need fixing
21:06	mdz	mjg59: for 8.10, we will hold a proper discussion about the right way to do it in the long term, and work toward that
21:07	mdz	we can't commit to reaching such a goal in one release cycle, I agree
21:07	mjg59	Sure
21:07	mdz	ok then
21:07	Keybuk	sounds like we have our first UDS ML session ;)
21:07	Keybuk	(ML: Mystery Location)
21:07	somerville32	:)
21:08	somerville32	That gives me a good reason to try and get there
21:08	somerville32	I'd be very interested in seeing us move forward with an innovative solution for this issue
21:08	somerville32	For now, moving Xubuntu to Universe I'm sure won't hurt too much ;]
21:09	somerville32	As _MMA_ and I already said, the situation for Universe _is_ improving.
21:09	somerville32	Especially with the recent additions of such MOTUs like Emmet Hickory
21:10	mdz	[VOTE] 1) packages seeded for Xubuntu are not required to be in main, 2) Xubuntu will continue to be built as usual but including packages from universe, and 3) in the Ubuntu 8.10 planning cycle (including UDS), we will discuss in depth how the repositories are organized with respect to project commitments and make plans to improve this
21:10	MootBot	Please vote on:  1) packages seeded for Xubuntu are not required to be in main, 2) Xubuntu will continue to be built as usual but including packages from universe, and 3) in the Ubuntu 8.10 planning cycle (including UDS), we will discuss in depth how the repositories are organized with respect to project commitments and make plans to improve this.
21:10	MootBot	Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
21:10	MootBot	E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
21:10	mdz	+1
21:10	MootBot	+1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
21:10	mjg59	+1
21:10	MootBot	+1 received from mjg59. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
21:11	Keybuk	+1
21:11	MootBot	+1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
21:11	mdz	#endvote
21:11	mdz	eek, I'm lagged
21:12	mdz	[TOPIC] AOB
21:12	MootBot	Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
21:12	MootBot	Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 3
21:12	MootBot	New Topic:  AOB
21:13	Keybuk	--- Ping reply from mdz : 0.47 second(s)
21:13	Keybuk	no OB from me
21:13	mdz	--- Ping reply from mdz : 15.98 second(s)
21:13	Keybuk	you ping'd yourself? :)
21:13	mdz	note that there is a minor question about mailing lists from Corey Burger which I redirected to technical-board@
21:13	mdz	please have a look and weigh in
21:14	mdz	Keybuk: don't you?
21:14	mdz	ok, thanks everyone
21:14	mdz	#endmeeting
21:14	MootBot	Meeting finished at 21:14.
21:14	Keybuk	mdz: xchat-gnome does it all the time itself
21:15	somerville32	Is the TB still approving all the MC's MOTU application approvals?
21:18	pochu	somerville32: nope, the MC now approves them and changes the status in LP
21:18	somerville32	ok
21:22	somerville32	Awesome. Anyhow, thanks a bunch Keybuk, mdz, and mjg59 for hearing me out :)
* mdz catches up with TeamReporting
21:22	mdz	somerville32: thanks for your input
22:45	no0tic	/j #quadratoufficiali
22:45	no0tic	sorryyy
23:17	LjL	no0tic: se non altro non ci hai dato anche la password
23:18	no0tic	LjL, non la conosco
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson

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