snap-lThe meeting is at 9pm, not 8pm00:55
mydogsnameisrudyis there snacks?00:57
Neal__Back on now with the other system00:59
Neal__As a Nooby, I hope you folks don't get too tired of my questions01:00
mydogsnameisrudythere is only one stuped question that the one you dont ask01:02
_stink_why does my brain seem to remember us having our monthly meetings during the work day01:02
jrwreni don't recall that.01:19
jrwrenyour brain might be broken.01:19
greg-grick_h_: jrwren you guys might enjoy this talk: http://vimeo.com/927032001:22
greg-gactually, everyone here, if you're a dev01:22
greg-g_stink_: snap-l ColonelPanic001 Blazeix smoser Wolfger ^^01:22
jrwrenthanks, I probably watched that 2yrs ago, cuz I read Greg Wilson's blog, but I'll watch again.01:25
greg-gah, nevermind then :P01:27
_stink_jrwren: you are probably right about my brain.01:29
snap-lOK, I'm blaming greg-g for posting that video, of which I'm 27 minutes into it. :)02:00
snap-lVery interesting. :)02:01
snap-lWelcome, one and all to the December meeting of #ubuntu-us-mi02:01
brouschi'm here! i remembered!02:02
snap-lthe agenda is posted in the link above02:02
snap-lbrousch: Gold star02:02
snap-lIf anyone has anything else to put in the agenda, please either add it to the meeting, ir bring it up once the agenda items have been exhausted02:03
snap-l1. Pangolin images02:03
snap-lJust so everyone is aware, Alpha 1 of Precise Pangolin (12.04) dropped earlier this week02:03
snap-lso fire up your bit-torrent and download 'em. :)02:03
snap-lI'm personally focusing on running these images in a VM, and helping to squash bugs02:04
snap-lAnyone installed them yet (in a VM, or otherwise?)02:04
brouschi am a wimp02:05
brouschi don;t think i;ve ever run an alpha02:05
snap-lThat's OK02:05
snap-lPersonally, I've waited for RCs in the past02:06
snap-lbut I think it'd be helpful  since this is a Long Term Support (LTS) version02:06
brouschooooh, that's right02:06
snap-lWe'll be living with this sucker for 5 years. :)02:06
snap-lAnyone know when the next global jam day is, btw?02:07
snap-lHm, not sure it's been announced yet02:08
snap-lThere'll be more stuff happening, likely after the first of the year.02:08
snap-lAnyone got anything else on Pangolin for now?02:08
snap-lIf not, we'll move on to item #2.02:09
snap-lOK, moving on to item 202:09
snap-lTeam reports02:09
snap-lJust a quick reminder that team reports are still out there. :)02:09
snap-lI know November hasn't had much going on outside of CHC and the meetings for the east siders02:10
snap-lbrousch: Anything happening on the west side of note?02:10
brouschjust the usualy grlug meetings02:10
snap-lIf anyone else has done anything during the past few months as part of the loco, and doesn't see it mentioned in the team reports, feel free to add it, or find someone to give you access to add it. :)02:11
snap-lIt's a wiki. It wants to be edited. :)02:11
brouschactually we have been working on a big project. it's all ubuntu, so that's kind of cool02:12
brouschand python02:12
snap-lbrousch: What's that?02:12
brouschit's a touchscreen gambling thing for overseas and canada02:12
snap-lseriously? :)02:12
brouschthey ran on windows, but crashed a lot, so we've been working on getting the touchscreen, receipt printer, and bill validator working02:13
snap-lHah, that's awesome.02:13
brouschsomething like 450 units shipping02:13
brouschwe are not selling them, just getting the linux part running for the manufacturer02:13
snap-lWhich manufacturer?02:14
snap-lThere's only a handful of them out there.02:14
brouschi have no idea02:14
brouschwait, this is it http://doncarboneentertainment.com/02:14
snap-lRegardless, that's very cool. I'm jealous.02:14
snap-lDon Carbone. Sunds like a Godfather character. ;)02:15
brouschi know, kind of scary02:15
snap-lThat's pretty strange. :)02:16
brouschflash app02:16
snap-lCool that they're tapping in to the community for help02:16
brouschyes, well, kind of a roundabout thing there02:17
snap-lI've long held that Windows doesn't have a place in vending equipment.02:17
snap-lAnd if they allow the results to be OSSed, that would be a huge win02:17
brouschi was surpised the group went with ubuntu since they mostly use other distros02:17
snap-lI know there's several folks out there that were looking for help with bill changers and Linux02:17
brouschyeah, they're kind of a bitch. the last thing we're working on i think02:18
snap-lAnyways, major rathole aside... :)02:19
snap-l2b: IRC meetings for 201202:19
snap-lI know we mentioned moving this meeting in the past02:19
snap-land I'm not opposed to that02:19
Neal__Looks kind of like Party Poker02:19
snap-lseems that Sunday nights are a little quiet for participation02:20
brouschshouldn't be02:20
snap-lSo, I'd like to ask if folks want to move the meeting to a different day / time, or if this is working just fine.02:21
mydogsnameisrudyim up at 5am02:21
snap-lmydogsnameisrudy: I'm not02:22
snap-land will never be, unless someone lit a fire under me02:22
snap-l(this is not an invitation)02:22
* brousch puts the matches away02:23
snap-lMight be better to ask this on the mailing list. :)02:23
brouschthat would make sense02:24
snap-lSince that way we can get more of the folks that aren't here. :)02:24
snap-lOK, I'll post something on the list, and we'll get some feedback that way.02:24
snap-lOK, any other team Business?02:25
snap-lAny other business in general?02:27
mydogsnameisrudywhat can someone new do to help02:28
Neal__What/where are the teams?02:29
snap-lmydogsnameisrudy: There's also assisting with bug reporting, development, packaging02:29
mydogsnameisrudyi could load the alpha on a system and test it02:29
brouschthere is only the michigan team02:29
snap-lmydogsnameisrudy: that would be aswesome, but I'd caution against using it on your main machine for now02:30
brouschbut we have sub-groups in locations where anyone wants to run one02:30
snap-lnot that I think it'll do bad things, but I don't want you upset if it does. :)02:30
mydogsnameisrudyi have a few laptops02:30
mydogsnameisrudyok ill look into that then02:31
snap-lThere are several teams that you can get involved with as well02:32
snap-l#ubuntu-community-team for helping with the community teams02:32
snap-lI'd recommend checking out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams for each of the teams that are out there02:33
Neal__As new as I am, I'd be hardpressed to add much I'm sure.02:33
snap-l(not sure how up-to-date that list is, but it'll give you a start)02:33
snap-lNeal__: Nothing wrong with diving in. :)02:33
snap-lWe all start green02:33
snap-lbut then some of us go blue instead. ;)02:34
Neal__Ya...I feel like I've still got a ways to go just to be green.02:34
snap-lNeal__: That's why we're here.02:34
snap-lWe help each other grow02:34
snap-lThere are also several of our members that have become Canonical employees02:35
snap-land others that are mistaken for being Canonical employees.02:35
Neal__Ubuntu is that companies02:35
snap-lCanonical is the company behind Ubuntu02:36
Neal__'Oops...Ubuntu is that companies 'Baby' right?02:36
snap-lbut they don't own or control it02:36
snap-lThe community drives it02:36
snap-lalthough at times Ubuntu has been taken in directions by Canonical02:37
Neal__Like now with the Unity thingy?02:37
snap-lIt's not nearly as contentious as some blogs / news organizations make it out to be. :)02:37
snap-lNeal__: Yep, that's a good example.02:37
Neal__I just got it, and really do like it02:37
snap-lThat's awesome.02:38
snap-lBefore we get too far into the weeds, any other business?02:38
snap-lif not, we can call this meeting adjourned.02:38
snap-lThanks everyone for showing up, and participating. Stay awesome!02:39
mydogsnameisrudybring in the dancing girls02:39
jrwrenand boys02:39
Neal__Break out the B...........02:39
mydogsnameisrudyoh not that02:39
snap-lFull production number.02:39
* jrwren wayves show fingers02:39
snap-lJAZZ HANDS02:40
mydogsnameisrudyok is the alpha out on iso?02:40
snap-lIt's available for download, but I believe this is not going to fit on a CD-R02:40
snap-lI believe this release is going to break the 650MB limit.02:40
mydogsnameisrudydvd then02:40
jjessesnap-l,  they announced it at UDS02:40
jrwrenCD is dead tech.02:40
jrwreni want netboot back.02:40
jjessefor 12.0402:41
jrwren10yrs ago debian TFTP booted and installed all from FTP/HTTP extremely well.02:41
snap-ljrwren: I want a gigabit pipe to my house.02:41
brouschyou can still do that02:41
brouschone of the guys in grlug does it02:41
jrwreni do it in my home, but I setup a mirror on my home box to do it.02:41
snap-lTFTP, talk about dead tech02:41
jrwrenI've not seen it done with ubuntu to a non mounted package source.02:42
jrwrenTFTP ain't dead, it is used everywhere.02:42
brouschthey might tftp boot the iso02:43
jrwrenwell, not exactly, but very close to that, yes.02:43
jrwrenthat is what I do.02:43
jrwrenbut i'm talking, you only download a 10MB bootstrap, boot that, and the rest is http, you don't have to download separately.02:44
jjessejust PXE boot the sucker and pull it from a mapped drive02:44
brouschdebian still has that02:44
jrwrenyeah, debian does, why ubuntu never adopted it, I'll never understand. i guess because of hte power of the CDR02:44
snap-lYep, the CD-R is powerful02:45
mydogsnameisrudyeveryone has one now02:46
jrwreni don't.02:46
jrwreni'm getting rid of mine.02:47
jrwreni almost never use optical media of any kind.02:47
snap-lmydogsnameisrudy: except for Macbook Airs, my IBM Thinkpad X120E, and a slew of Netbooks. :)02:47
snap-ljrwren: But, how do you rip CDs? :)02:47
mydogsnameisrudythe everyday person will have one02:47
rick_h_snap-l: you're forgetting you're in the aging crowd of "buying physical media"02:47
jjessei have a usb cd/dvd that i use02:48
snap-lrick_h_: Oh, I thought I was in the crazy crowd of "hoarders"02:48
jjessei took the cd drive out of laptop for an extra drive02:48
jrwrensnap-l: touche!02:48
jrwreni still love audio cds.02:49
jrwreni still buy 'em.02:49
jrwrendigital is great and all, but I like the art, I like buying from the artist.02:49
snap-lrick_h_: I wanted to punch someone in the neck when I heard on TWiT that Spotify can replace physical and m3 downloads.02:49
jrwrenprobably more than 75% of my music has been signed by artist over the past 5 yrs :)02:49
snap-lIf they sold FLAC, I might not care so much02:50
rick_h_snap-l: yea, I know. but I did some polling, in my family I think I can round towards 80% haven't bought a cd this year02:50
rick_h_itunes + streaming ftw02:50
jrwrendude, nearly every sentence I hear on TWIT makes me wnat to punch someone.02:50
snap-lassuming artwork and other stuff.02:50
rick_h_and that's a lot of younger kids, etc02:50
rick_h_jrwren: heh, it does wear after a bit doesn't it02:50
snap-lyeah, I'm the only one buying CDs02:50
rick_h_snap-l: someone is buying them, they're still all over stores02:50
mydogsnameisrudylast cd i got was the blackkeys02:51
rick_h_but I'm having a hard time finding those people these days02:51
snap-lrick_h_: Blame me02:51
rick_h_I think the cd player in cars is to blame02:51
snap-lI love CD sound over Mp3s02:51
rick_h_my aunt had, but only because she can't hook her phone up to her caddy02:51
rick_h_the FM tuner crap is awful enough that she bought a cd vs via her handset02:51
jrwreni'm fine with mp3, as long as I know from where it came.02:51
snap-lYeah, I'd believe it02:51
snap-ljrwren: there's a huge sonic difference.02:52
jrwrenshow me the EAC log and make it lame v002:52
jrwrenno there isn't.02:52
snap-lEven between 320KB02:52
jrwrenmost of us don't have the audio equipment or the ears to hear the difference.02:52
snap-ljrwren: Want to take the test? :)02:52
jrwrenI've taken the test.02:52
jrwreni know my ears, I know mp302:52
snap-lI can tell the difference.02:52
jrwren320 is poorer than v002:52
jrwrenVBR > CBR02:53
snap-lgood headphones, excellent source material02:53
snap-lstereo separation is key02:53
jrwrenyes, I have to pull out my sennheiser hd25 to tell02:53
snap-lmp3 joint stereo kills the soundstage more than anything02:53
jrwrenmy usual shit phones or in ears don't cut it.02:53
jrwrenwhy is that? it is still stereo.02:53
snap-lIt tries hard to compress it down02:54
jrwrenah, joint stereo is only when v is 4 or higher with lame... so NEVER use it.02:54
jrwrenv0 is only thing I use.  v2 isn't too bad if you REALLY need extra squeez02:54
jrwrenneither uses joint stereo02:54
snap-li compress OMC with v002:54
snap-lI'd release with FLAC if I had the disk / bandwidth02:55
jrwrenbut this is kinda the point... if you don't know how it was compressed, and you have never heard a lossless, how do you know what you are hearing?  right?02:55
snap-lWell, and I think that's where people make the mistake that digital = crap02:55
jrwreni don't buy amazon or itunes or anything, becuase I have no idea how it was compressed02:55
snap-land why we're seeing a resurgence in Vinyl.02:55
jrwrenand hipster audio cassettes!02:55
snap-lGod, audio cassettes are the worst02:56
snap-lAll the sound of a sock drawer mixed witht he reliability and long-term wear of vinyl.02:56
snap-lThe only thing they offered was portability02:57
snap-lbut when CDs came down in price, and portable units were inexpensive, I knew that CD was the way to go02:57
jrwrenportability and easy recordability03:00
mydogsnameisrudycya at 5am im off03:05
snap-lI'm off as well03:05
Neal__Was fun...I'll be back....03:08
snap-lNeal__: Awesome!03:09
snap-lNeal__: btw: if you want, at a later time we can show you specialized clients for connecting to IRC03:09
snap-lso you don't have to keep a web browser up03:09
rick_h_ugh, still so sleepy12:12
mydogsnameisrudymorning ..... it snowed today12:16
brouschug work power outage is always fun13:09
brouschat least nothing died this time13:10
rick_h_well that is a plus13:13
brouschit's extra fun because i still have some things on old servers, so i have to fire up 4 things in a certain order13:13
rick_h_oh joy, automate automate13:14
mydogsnameisrudydid a dualboot of 12.04 alpha installer crashed ;)13:15
rick_h_python runs on windows I hear :)13:15
brouschautomate pushing power buttons?13:16
rick_h_sure, you don't have a fancy remote control power strip you can send messages to? :)13:16
rick_h_sorry, I read that as "in a certain folder"13:17
brouschdoesn't do much good when the first thing i need to turn on is the internet firewall13:17
mydogsnameisrudywonders is brouschs chair has wheels on it13:17
brouschit does, but i don't ride it into work13:18
brouschdeasnakes PPA ftw http://readthedocs.org/docs/ncoghlan_devs-python-notes/en/latest/venv_bootstrap.html13:57
rick_h_brousch: yea, PPAs are nice14:03
snap-lbrousch: Yeah, the installer crashed on me as well14:11
snap-lfor 12.0414:11
mydogsnameisrudyits running now14:12
snap-lNear the end it crashes14:12
snap-lI filed a bug report on it14:13
=== gale_ is now known as rudyonalpha1
rudyonalpha1hmmm were did they hide the screensaver optoins14:19
snap-lGnome 3 doesn't believe in screensavers.14:19
snap-lnot sure if they're coming back in 11.10, but for 11.10, the only option is blank screen14:20
rudyonalpha1oh lol ok so there is not screensaver14:20
rudyonalpha1firefox will not install flash plugins14:31
snap-lhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/850264 <- This would explain the installer bug14:42
rudyonalpha1im not on amd64 so is that something else14:45
rudyonalpha1it crashed on the cd installer , then worked after it got to gui screen installer14:46
smosergreg-g, that talks really good.14:47
smoserbut i have to work, and wasn't able to be cause i was paying attention to it.14:47
smoserhttp://vimeo.com/9270320 for others.14:47
snap-lYeah, I downloaded it and watched it15:10
snap-lBasically, it's being skeptical15:11
Wolfgersnap-l: being skeptical on the internet? Hmph. I find that hard to believe....15:20
rick_h_heh, it's basically "software dev as a business == computer science == science...let's treat it like that kthx15:21
snap-lrick_h_: Exactly.15:28
snap-lI love it when people say that Comp Sci isn't a science, or is a soft science15:28
brouschit's a pseudoscience, like astrology15:30
rick_h_snap-l: well I'm playing a little loose. I don't think you can say computer science is the study of software development15:30
ColonelPanic001I don't think of CS as a science any more than I do political science15:31
ColonelPanic001maybe a little more.15:31
rick_h_but the point is there's science to the practice, so quit trying to make decisions based on "in my experience" type observations15:31
rick_h_ColonelPanic001: I think the amount of math I had to get through to get my CS degree adds a bit more science to it than political science15:31
_stink_in my experience, return 'False!15:31
_stink_in my experience, return 'False!' works great!15:31
_stink_that's a little joke for ColonelPanic001.15:32
_stink_and for everyone else: yes, there is code around here that does that.15:32
ColonelPanic001I have a coworker with, shall we say, an advanced degrree in CS15:32
ColonelPanic001yeah, I had to explain to her that return true; might have advantages over return "true";15:32
snap-lIf anyone thinks that Comp Sci isn't a science, I'll gladly hand them Knuth's Art of Computing and watch them run15:32
snap-lColonelPanic001: God, that drives me nuts15:33
ColonelPanic001I just was amused that I had to explain that a string with length is "true".15:33
snap-lLike the folks that said there wasn't anything wrog with VB's variant type15:33
snap-lor why they were having trouble with VB's true vs. MVC's return 0. ;)15:34
ColonelPanic001I'm not familiar with VB, but I'll take your word for it15:34
snap-lColonelPanic001: I'll probably get corrected by jrwren, but my understanding is it was a catch-all type15:35
snap-lso you could put in true, integers, or characters15:35
snap-land it took 4 bytes, regardless15:35
snap-lit felt very sloppy to me15:35
snap-l(this was in VB6-era)15:36
snap-lalso, true = -115:36
ColonelPanic001...true is -1?15:36
snap-lso comparing -1 with return 0 would never be valid.15:36
snap-lit was pretty screwy15:36
snap-lYeah, I think they were trying to prevent people from comparing true to 1 or some shit15:37
snap-lthough I think you could have abs(true). (Absolute Truth). ;)15:37
ColonelPanic001I think they just were sick basards15:38
snap-lIt's been a while since I've even touched VB15:38
snap-lbut I remember the instructor in the training class getting tripped up by MVC returning 0, and having it not match True.15:39
brouschi have a lot of true is -1 in my access tables15:40
snap-lbrousch: Yeah, that's just wonky to me15:40
brouschit is15:41
=== jcastro_ is now known as jcastro
snap-lHm, I think I'm not getting my rebate from Asus15:49
snap-lsent in the rebate around 8/2615:49
snap-lsomething tells me it's been over 8 weeks. :)15:50
rick_h_I tend to consider rebates "bonus" and don't tend to expect or make decisions based on them16:05
snap-lrick_h_: Yeah, me either16:06
snap-lbut I have a project attached to it, and a waiting for on it16:07
snap-land just looked at the create date.16:07
rick_h_ah, lol16:07
snap-lSent my mom the following link regarding some alleged wal*mart scam: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=retailer+cash+back+scam17:00
snap-lGetting really tired of her sending me these fucking forwards that can be disproved with a simple search.17:00
brouschoh my17:03
* greg-g waves17:03
brouschyou sent your mom to lmgtfy?17:03
snap-lbrousch: Yes17:17
snap-lyes, I did17:17
Blazeixcool: https://github.com/blog/993-ordered-list-is-a-githubber18:37
Blazeixi've been enjoying ordered list's blog for a while; I only wish they updated it more18:37
brouschordered list comes to grwebdev regularly18:38
Blazeixah, neat18:38
brouschnice guys18:38
brouschBlazeix: bkeepers 1:37pm via Echofon not my most flattering picture bit.ly/ssgQnk18:52
snap-lI have never used any of those packages.19:06
Blazeixnot even speakerdeck? they're a pretty common way to share presentation slides.19:10
brouschit's pretty new19:12
rick_h_yea, same here19:12
rick_h_heard of it, but not used it19:12
brouschorderedlist is based in south bend19:14
Blazeixyeah, that's neat; i didn't know there were hip companies in indiana :D19:14
Blazeix(i'm allowed to say that as a former 8-year resident)19:15
brouschi went to high school in niles19:15
snap-lI thought the only thing in Indiana was despair and a shitty KFC.19:16
snap-lapparently I should update the travel-guide to include "brousch education"19:17
Blazeixhey, their chief exports are popcorn and ducks. serious business.19:17
rick_h_Blazeix: http://www.androidcentral.com/galaxy-nexus-starting-arrive-verizon-stores19:17
snap-lrick_h_: jesus, you're like a little kid on Christmas morning19:17
snap-lexcept with a larger toy on the lis19:17
rick_h_snap-l: dude, they told me they were going to release it in Nov19:17
rick_h_and you were online when we watched the damn video via hangout19:17
rick_h_so not like this is new19:17
snap-lAnd it'll be obsolete by the time you open th fucking wrapper19:18
Blazeixso that's in line with the 12/5 release19:18
rick_h_fine, but if I'm going to live with it for 2yrs, I want it to be the damn obsolete phone I picked out19:18
snap-lbecause HTC will have announced the spoogematron 250019:18
rick_h_Blazeix: 5 or 8th19:18
rick_h_some time this week hopefully Blazeix19:18
Blazeixrick_h_: oh? that'd be swell19:18
snap-land Motorola will have announced the Dildroid19:18
Blazeixsnap-l: they already announced the droid 4, if you're into hardward keyboards19:19
snap-lNow with 3 1/2 CPUs of awesome19:19
rick_h_yea, razr + keyboard19:19
Wolfgersnap-l: there's a Niles in Indiana too? I just thought there was one in Michigan near the border... ;-)19:19
Blazeixnah, we're up to the quattro now, 4 cores19:19
snap-lBlazeix: They're rounding up19:19
* Wolfger ponders the half-core19:20
Blazeixoh, crap, I said 12/5 release date, I meant 12/1219:20
brouschWolfger: yes, niles, mi19:20
Blazeixthat's the one I've seen floating around19:20
brouschi was not educated in indiana19:20
Wolfgerbrousch: I figured...19:21
WolfgerI used to have friends in Niles/Buchanan19:21
rick_h_Blazeix: yea, I'm thinking 8th/9th has been floating for a while, and if they're shipping monday would hopefully fit19:21
Wolfgerthen they got divorced, he moved to Indiana (wtf?) and she's no longer a friend :-p19:21
brouschyes, well there are not a lot of useful people in niles. we all leave asap19:24
Wolfgerthey do have one heck of a haunted house complex out there for the Halloween season, though19:26
brouschomg i love digicam20:14
brouschthe search!20:14
snap-lhttp://www.npr.org/blogs/allsongs/2011/12/05/143032077/vote-for-your-favorite-albums-of-2011 <- Please write in Cloudkicker - Let Yourself Be Huge20:52
snap-lHad an hour meeting that turned into a two hour festival of architect discussion22:00
rick_h_snap-l: so things are better designed now right? :)23:42

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