MooDoomorning all07:01
brobostigonmorning everyone,08:04
diploMorning all08:06
brobostigonmorning diplo08:06
popeypip pip08:10
brobostigonmorning hrh popey08:10
TheOpenSourcererI'm late today - anyway morning.08:11
MooDoomorning morning08:16
MooDoopah why is no one here to say morning at 6am ;)08:16
MooDoowell 7am lol08:17
MartijnVdSMooDoo: I was locked out of the office, and my laptop battery was empty08:17
MooDooMartijnVdS: unacceptable ;)08:18
brobostigonconnecbot on his nexus5 :)08:19
MartijnVdSMooDoo: obviously, otherwise I'd been working from the hallway (wifi penetrates walls now!) ;)08:19
MooDooMartijnVdS: what's wifi?  Don't you use a long cat5 cable under the door like me :)08:20
MartijnVdSMooDoo: this laptop doesn't have ethernet08:22
MooDooMartijnVdS: wow what laptop? <curious>08:23
MartijnVdSMooDoo: Dell XPS-1208:24
MartijnVdSordered when you couldn't get the previous "Developer Edition" XPS-13 anymore, and before the new one was announced08:25
MooDoomorning JohnRobert08:46
Laneyhappy moist morning09:13
MooDooit's chuffing it down here in notts09:13
Laneysure is09:13
Laneyglad I don't have to go out :P09:13
MooDooLaney: hope it stops at 3:30 or i'm going to get wet riding home :)09:18
Laneywas hoping to go to the bank at lunch :(09:18
MooDooLaney: argos for me :S09:18
SuperMatttoday in the office: http://www.supermatt.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/20131120_090816.jpg09:21
popeyOne of those mornings. Just managed to pour coffee over iPad and Nook at the same time09:21
popeyall cleaned up in rapid time tho09:22
SuperMattmaybe we need to dedicate a UDS session to popey's various tech fails09:23
SuperMattit seems every week something of yours goes wrong09:23
popeyOh, and my desktop boots to a bios screen saying B4 now and then09:23
popeyand the keyboard is sometimes not detected (I believe B4 means this)09:23
popeyalso, when booting to Ubuntu/Windows on it, sometimes I have to wait for 30 seconds after login screen before keyboard works at all09:23
popeyfine once it works, but there seems to be some BIOS/USB issue going on09:24
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Name Your PC Day! :-D09:24
popeyalan@wopr:~$ hostname09:24
popeypronounced volk?09:24
MartijnVdSpopey: vell, not quite :)09:24
MartijnVdSpopey: ask Google Translate, it knows how to pronounce it :)09:25
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)09:32
MartijnVdS\o bigcalmian09:32
MooDoohello bigcalm :D09:32
popeyHmm. spotify broke for me today.09:38
MartijnVdSpopey: on LInux? let me check mine09:39
popeymessage on the console about deadlock detected09:39
MartijnVdSare you running trusty or saucy?09:39
MartijnVdSpopey: 1: ?09:39
MartijnVdSpopey: there's been a new key for their archive for about 5-6 months now I guess (maybe a bit longer)09:41
MartijnVdSpopey: maybe you didn't get that, and it stopped upgrading?09:41
popeyI'm on my desktop not laptop, probably why09:41
popeyi dont think i have the ppa enabled here09:41
popeyyeah, no ppa09:41
MartijnVdSpopey: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free09:41
MartijnVdSand their key is 94558F59 I think09:42
popeyGet:1 http://repository.spotify.com/ stable/non-free spotify-client amd64 1: [47.4 MB]09:42
popeyhmm, still blocking / greying out09:43
popeyStränge indeed09:44
SuperMattI've just given up with spotify09:44
popey09:44:16.634 E [storage.cpp:3307                ] Storage error: realm: 3, file: 609a7fbfde6aae95babb1b18231ee7f3a3ceee01, error: 709, OS error: 0, count: 109:44
SuperMattI've moved to google play09:44
MartijnVdSSuperMatt: I want to, but I get spotify for free09:44
bashrcHave never tried spotify09:45
MartijnVdSSuperMatt: I've told Google which music I have using their management tool, and the playlists it generates are amazing :)09:45
popeyFailed to create secure directory (/run/user/1000/pulse): Permission denied09:45
SuperMattwell I can't agrue with that09:45
popeybug 119739509:46
lubotu3bug 1197395 in systemd (Ubuntu Saucy) "/run/user/$ID/pulse owned by root and not by the user" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119739509:46
LaneyTHAT BUG09:46
bashrcyou mean you're not logged in as root all the time? :)09:48
MooDoobashrc: I am, is that ok?  ps want my bank details ;)09:48
popeyoh. it's one of those bugs09:49
bashrcan eye-rolling bug?09:49
* popey ignores the discussion on those bugs and chowns /run/user/1000/pulse09:54
dvrrhow to resolve  807 error   vpn  server09:57
MartijnVdSdvrr: (a) what kind of VPN server? (b) What did you do (details!), what happened, what did you expect would happen?09:57
dwatkinsI'm reminded of the article entitled "cost of 0wnership" which detailled the disadvantage of how powerful linux is and how a compromised linux server can be more useful to hackers than a compromised windows server.09:58
dwatkinsMany people misread it as "ownership" instead of "0wnership", perhaps a better title would have been in order.09:58
dvrri fallow   this url    http://jesin.tk/setup-pptp-vpn-server-debian-ubuntu/09:58
dwatkinshttp://www.immunitysec.com/downloads/tc0.pdf for the curious09:59
MartijnVdSdvrr: you know PPTP is not secure, right?10:00
popeyI'm getting lots of tabs crashing in chromium today10:02
dvrri don't know    i  search in google only10:02
popeyhttp://store.steampowered.com/app/253370/ crashes chrome for me10:03
mungbean123 pages of PDF to go through for job candidate shortlisting :-|10:05
TheOpenSourcererWorth a read: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-steve-ballmer-and-kicked-microsoft-out-of-the-city/10:06
dvrrMartijnVdS : which   vpn server is secure  please  tel me    i will search in google  i will configure10:07
MartijnVdSdvrr: IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN. OpenVPN is the easiest to configure.10:08
popeymy 13.10 desktop is pretty borked and I can't put my finger on what it is10:09
popeytabs crashing left and right in chromium, slow response10:09
Laneythought you said something about problems after moving it10:09
popeyyeah, re-seated RAM10:09
popeymemtest okay10:09
mungbeanonce we had a contractor who installed RAM with vaseline on her fingers10:10
mungbeansmoke started pouring out of the PC10:10
LaneyI've been getting spontaneous reboots once a day lately10:10
Laney:( :( :(10:10
mungbeanchrome crashed my X session when opeining discourse.ubuntu yesterday10:10
popeylaptop is also re-triggering usb connection to iphone10:10
popeyevery second or two10:10
MooDooI had a crash last night using eog, but I'm using lts ;)10:10
mungbeanpopey is a one man advert not to buy a TP10:11
* mungbean haz LTS10:11
popeyhow is it thinkpad related?10:11
MooDoomungbean: I'm using lts on the desktop, don't need anything else.10:11
mungbeani was thinking of your heat problems the other day10:11
popeypretty sure it's kernel or desktop10:11
popeyoh yeah, that sucks10:11
popeyI probably wont buy another thinkpad now10:11
popeyalthough I am told the newer intels are better heat performers10:12
MartijnVdSdeveloper edition XPSes though...10:12
mungbeani still see a lot of dell latitude d6x0 around. testament to how solid they were10:12
popeyG+ notification: "Carlo Orosei invited you to join gnewsense"10:12
popeyI'll get right on that.10:12
mungbeanafter joining diapora10:12
* popey is on diaspora ☻10:13
mungbeanthat still exists?10:13
MooDoowow diaspora still goin?10:13
mungbeanits a fight to the death10:13
mungbeanlast man standing10:13
popeylast activity 29 days ago on my stream10:13
mungbeanpopey and jef spaleta are the only 2 left10:13
popeynot that I follow anyone10:14
popeyI only login when someone mentions it10:14
popeythanks mungbean10:14
popeyhaha.. most recently update is this...10:14
popeyWilliam Kennington - 20 days ago - "Join us now and share the software."10:14
popeyfollowed by a comment...10:14
popeyyup. thats diaspora10:15
MartijnVdSso the Bad Voltage guys were right about it!10:15
MooDoolol 2 years ago I got the last notification in diaspora10:16
popeydamnit, you reminded me about bad voltage now10:17
MartijnVdSpopey: is that bad?10:17
mungbeandid anyone listen to that radio4 prog with maggie philbin?10:17
popeyno, stored it for later listening10:17
mungbeani might get it sped up so i can listen in double time10:17
mungbeanhalf the time10:17
MartijnVdSpopey: I use Podkicker Pro for that, on my phone10:17
MartijnVdSworks great :)10:17
mungbeanLAS would sound like the muppets on double speed10:18
mungbeanhey bert, hey ernie10:18
Laneyhope the sloes turn up today10:18
mungbeansounds like crazy frog10:18
MooDooLaney: what does the fox say?10:19
Laneythe... fox...10:19
MartijnVdSMooDoo: The FOX says "Fgshgfhgs MURRICA", right?10:20
MooDooMartijnVdS: think you'll find it's spelt cha cha cha cha cha cha chow ;)10:20
MartijnVdSit's like the Daily Fail of American TV10:20
bashrcis that like 20th century fox?10:23
MooDoobashrc: for your entertainment ;) - http://youtu.be/jofNR_WkoCE10:24
mungbeanlubotu needs to parse youtube urls and post the titles10:28
mungbean"Salary expectation: £1 000 00010:29
MooDooMartijnVdS: what about the opsnsuse version ;) - http://youtu.be/VNkDJk5_9eU10:36
dvrr i will configure   IPSec/L2TP and OpenVPN.  only  ubuntu system not in router  it is secure10:37
LaneyMooDoo: sky's looking nice and blue now!10:39
MartijnVdSdvrr: no10:39
MooDooLaney: yeah rather happy about that10:39
MartijnVdSdvrr: IPSec/L2TP is one choice, OpenVPN is another choice.10:39
MartijnVdSdvrr: you don't have to do both, just OpenVPN is enough10:39
popeyLaney: got a new chair yet?10:40
MartijnVdSMooDoo: "What does the FAQ say?"10:40
Laneypopey: yeah, went for the markus10:40
Laneynot quite ready to step up to the aeron/m<whatever the new one is> just yet10:40
popeyi had to superglue my chair to stop it flipping back with a *crack*10:40
Laneyoh I took a picture of the old one10:42
Laneyit was quite amusing towards the end of its life10:42
popeyyeah, I saw the nice liste it had developed10:42
dvrrMartijnVdS:okk  thank you very much10:42
Laneyah did I upload it?10:42
Laneyclever laney10:43
popeyyou did10:43
Laneythere's a standing desk in my future though I feel </trendy>10:43
popeyyeah, I'd like one of those10:44
popeymaybe when I finally get the garage converted to an office10:44
MartijnVdSLaney: with or without a treadmill?10:44
MartijnVdSLaney: people do that.. at *very* low speeds10:44
MartijnVdS(slower than "strolling")10:44
Laneyyeah I've heard about it... probably not for me10:44
popeyok, now imgr is causing chromium to crash10:45
popeyany suggestions on debugging this?10:45
MartijnVdSpopey: time to reseat your RAM10:45
* popey reboots to memtest for a bit10:45
mungbeanpredicts errors10:47
dwatkinsI'd be looking at the strace output, too.10:47
* popey looks up the price of new RAM ☹10:48
aquarius__yo, dudes. Ubuntu 13.10 machine won't boot; dies n grub rescue. Grub says unknown flesystem. Have booted from usb; i now plan to fsck the partition on the disk, but.. how do i know which filesystem it is? Was a clean install of *probably* 11.10 and then upgraded since. ext3? ext4?10:48
dwatkinsmount it and check the release file10:48
MartijnVdSdwatkins: he can't mount, errors.10:49
aquarius__dwatkins:  can't mount it10:49
popeyyou dont need to know what filesystem it is10:49
popeyfsck will figure that out10:49
popey"sudo fdisk -l"10:49
popeythat will list all partitions10:49
mungbeanthere's another grub resuce cd, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair10:49
dwatkinsoh sorry, thought that was just a boot problem10:49
* dwatkins confused fsck and mkfs in his mind10:50
aquarius__popey: fdsk just says the partition is "Linux"10:50
dwatkinsprobably not a good thing to confuse10:50
popeyaquarius__: i didnt say it would tell you what the filesystem was10:50
popeyjust which partition it is, so you know what to feed fsck10:50
popeysudo fsck /dev/sdb110:50
popeyfor example10:50
MartijnVdSadd -v in there, maybe10:50
MartijnVdSif you want verbosity10:50
MartijnVdSuh -V10:50
aquarius__popey: I did "fsck -N /dev/sda1". It says stuff about /sbin/fsck.ext210:51
MartijnVdS.. both?10:51
aquarius__popey: (-N is dry run)10:51
MartijnVdSaquarius__: fsck.ext* = the same10:51
popeyyou may want to install some useful stuff in the live environ10:51
aquarius__popey: am concerned that it can't read the disk and so assumes ext210:51
popeylike smartmontools and pastebinit10:51
dwatkinsdoes it actually fail to mount?10:51
aquarius__dwatkins: yes10:51
popeywhat does it say when it fails to mount?10:52
dwatkinswhat's the error?10:52
aquarius__it demands that I tell it the filesystem10:52
MartijnVdSso tell it ext410:52
MartijnVdSif that doesn't work, ext310:52
MartijnVdSetc :)10:52
MartijnVdSunless you installed btrfs, but you'd know if you had10:52
aquarius__MartijnVdS: I don't know enough to know whether that might make things worse. :(10:52
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: your answer is much better than using xxd, which I was about to suggest ;)10:52
MartijnVdSaquarius__: it won't.10:53
aquarius__hang on, let me irc from the live environ10:53
dwatkinsI know NTFS contains the letters NTFS in the first few bytes of the filesystem, not sure if that's the case for ext[2-4]10:53
dwatkins...and I'm not about to unmount something to find out ;)10:53
popeyaquarius__: you're sure you're mounting the right partition?10:53
MartijnVdSdwatkins: nah, ext3 is just ext2 with a journal, and ext4 is just ext3 with some other improvement bits, it's all quite gradual10:53
popey(hence me asking you to run fdisk -l)10:53
MartijnVdSit's the aquaman10:54
aquarius_livepopey: yes10:54
dwatkinswow, the first few k of my ext3 partition are zeroes10:54
AlanBellsudo head /dev/sda1 doesn't show that much of interest10:54
popeyWe're live here today with Stuart Langridge who is coming to us from "shit creek"... Hows it going there Stuart?10:54
* dwatkins shrugs and lets it carry on10:54
MartijnVdSpopey: He seems to be looking for a paddle 8-)10:55
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: strings doesn't say much either10:55
MartijnVdSdwatkins: "file" should be able to identify it, if you have a dump of the first few kb/mb10:55
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: /dev/sdb1: block special10:55
dwatkinsoh an actual copy, duh10:56
popeyhave you tried mounting it by specifying the filesystem?10:56
MartijnVdSdon't forget -o ro10:56
aquarius_liveso I can't mount without knowing filesystem type, and I don't know how to find that out. I can try ext4, then ext3, etc... but am concerned that mount is meant to do this for me and isn't, which suggests deeper corruption10:56
popeymount -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt10:56
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: nice! /tmp/sdb1: Linux rev 1.0 ext4 filesystem data,10:56
popeyyou can mount it read-only if you want10:56
MartijnVdS-o ro -> read-only -> important in situations like this10:56
dwatkinsI think we have a winnar10:56
dwatkinsdd is your friend10:56
aquarius_livepopey: I didn't do that because I don't know what the filesystem *is*. MartijnVdS suggests that trying ext4 and getting it wrong is not a problme10:56
* dwatkins goes to read a really boring security document10:56
popeyi agree with MartijnVdS, but you can mount -o ro10:57
popeymount -o ro -t ext4 /dev/sda1 /mnt10:57
GentileBen"Ubuntu’s Mir won’t replace X in 14.04 desktop"10:57
GentileBenOh joy.10:57
popeyalso, smartmontools provides smartctl - use that to check if the ssd is badgered10:57
Myrttihow bad is it when I can vividly imagine aquarius_live reading his messages out?10:57
aquarius_livewon't mount.10:57
MyrttiI need more tea, maybe with a dash of vodka10:58
MartijnVdSaquarius__: which error?10:58
aquarius_livemount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, (etc)10:58
GentileBen"And Ubuntu for phones and tablets will eventually support Android apps." <-- is anybody else apathetic to Ubuntu phones?10:58
aquarius_livefails for ext4, ext3, ext2.10:58
jussiMyrtti: vodka with a dash of tea?10:58
aquarius_livepopey: will try smartmontools10:58
GentileBenWith Android, Google gets all your personal info. With Ubuntu, Amazon and Canonical get all your personal info.10:58
popeyits not encrypted is it?10:58
GentileBenAnd the NSA gets info for both.10:58
popeyGentileBen: shut up10:58
Myrttijussi: for gods sake, it's Wednesday and not even noon yet10:58
GentileBenHey popey, shut up yourself.10:58
MartijnVdSaquarius__: ok, so e2fsck -v /dev/sda110:59
popeytiresome trolling about amazon is tiresome10:59
SuperMattI think popey has a better idea what's going on10:59
SuperMattand the amazon thing is all just FUD10:59
jussiMyrtti: hehe, ok, wait an hour or 2  :D10:59
aquarius_liveooh, errors from smartctl10:59
popeypastey pastey10:59
popeyheh, that could have sounded like I was telling the pastey guy to paste11:00
popeywhich could hold true for aquarius_live11:00
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: "new underpants" kind of errors?11:00
popey"what did I have on this disk which isn't backed up" kind of errors?11:00
aquarius_liveMartijnVdS: nfi. I know nothing about this stuff.11:00
aquarius_liveI am *reasonably* confident in my backups.11:00
dwatkinsif I could remember how to get dd to output to stdout, I'd suggest using that piped into file (count being low)11:01
MartijnVdSdwatkins: don't provide an "of=" and it'll use stdout11:01
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: that fails :'(11:01
aquarius_liveMartijnVdS: you suggest e2fsck, but what if it's ext3?11:01
aquarius_liveam extremely, extremely scared of screwing this up :)11:02
directhexaquarius_live, the ext2 tools still work.11:02
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: e2fsck checks ext{2,3,4}11:02
aquarius_liveah, that's reassuring11:02
directhexaquarius_live, the mount will have failed because the "superblock" which defines the file system start point is corrupted. fortunately, ext* stores lots of spare copies11:02
aquarius_liveok, e2fscking11:03
AlanBell7 raspberry pi devices have arrived11:03
directhexaquarius_live, "dumpe2fs /dev/sdXX | grep superblock" will tell you where all the superblocks found on the disk are11:03
MartijnVdSif there are logs in SMART though, it's time to order a new hard disk11:03
aquarius_liveheh. Inode 7 has illegal block(s).  Clear<y>?11:03
gordonjcpAlanBell: \o/11:03
aquarius_liveNot at all sure whether I should say yes or no to that question!11:03
MartijnVdSAlanBell: \o/11:03
directhexaquarius_live, and "fsck -b SOMEBLOCKNUMBER /dev/sdXX" will do a fsck using the backup11:03
directhexaquarius_live, if this is an SSD, it is possibly failure. if it's failure, it's likely catastrophic. non-enterprise ssds have totally catastrophic failure modes due to the way flash is written11:04
aquarius_liveit's an SSD, indeed11:04
aquarius_liveonly had the darn thing two years! grrrrr11:04
directhexaquarius_live, which brand?11:05
aquarius_livenot sure. whatever came in it11:05
MartijnVdSwhat did it come in? :)11:05
aquarius_liveDevice Model:     JMicron 616 SSD11:05
aquarius_liveso says smartctl11:05
directhexaquarius_live, oh, you can also try mounting using a backup superblock, with -o sb=SOMEBLOCKNUMBER, using the numbers you got from dumpe2fs11:06
SuperMattall right, here I go in to the heady world of writing my own juju charms11:06
MartijnVdSSuperMatt: good luck!11:06
dwatkinsrestoring from backup, SuperMatt?11:07
SuperMattthanks, I think I'm going to need it11:07
directhexwhen a cell in a flash chip on an enterprise becomes corrupt, it takes all data stored in that same row or column, not just the cell.11:07
directhexin a consumer ssd, the failure is in 3 axis, not 2, so you lose N times more data11:08
aquarius_livedirecthex: and dumpe2fs's lines such as "Backup superblock at 163840, Group descriptors at 163841-163848" means that 163840 is a block number? So mount -o ro -t ext3 -o sb=163840 /dev/sda1 mnt ?11:08
SuperMattdwatkins: no, I need nginx with a specific plugin that isn't in the repos, and then of course I'll have my own configs to go with that11:08
dwatkinsSuperMatt: sounds like you have a complex day ahead of you11:08
SuperMattsure I do!11:08
directhexaquarius_live, you pass options to mount of the form -o option1,option2,option3. so -o ro,sb=163840 but basically yes11:08
SuperMattcan't decide if it's better to compile the version of nginx first, and stick it in a git repo, or have the charm download the lastest version of nginx and the plugin and compile them and install time11:09
aquarius_livesame errors about a bad superblock or wrong fs type when passing -o sb=whatever. Tried as -t ext{4,3,2} with -o ro,sb=X for X being a few of the superblocks shown by dumpe2fs :(11:10
popeyis there some science to the patterns memtest uses?11:11
popeyI mean I get 00000000 and FFFFFFFF and the 010101 and 101010 ones..11:11
dwatkinsI assumed they were random.11:11
bashrcwhich reminds me, there should be a charm for a freedombox type install (diaspora, owncloud, etc)11:11
popeyno, there's repeating patterns11:11
MartijnVdSpopey: all zeroes, all ones, bit on, bit off11:11
popeybc709893 for example11:12
MartijnVdSpopey: write them in binary, you might see patterns that way?11:13
popeyoh, "Test #8 [Modulo 20, Random pattern]" ☻11:13
popeyyeah, did that ☻11:13
aquarius_livedirecthex: so, mounting passing the backup superblock doesn't work. So it's a fsck, I suspect (and possibly that won't help either, if it's honestly scragged, of course). Is it better to let fsck try and fix things, or does that make it worse?11:13
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: if you have a big enough disk, you could "dd" the partition to a backup (image) file first11:14
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: that way, whatever fsck does, you have an "original" image11:14
MartijnVdSyou could even copy the image file and fsck THAT instead11:15
aquarius_liveMartijnVdS: I do not. Only one disc in this machine, and the main partition takes up very nearly all of it. It's only a 120GB SSD; I can't afford to leave half of it empty.11:15
popey---> PCWorld11:15
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: sure, but maybe you have a 2TB usb disk lying around :)11:15
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: the partition image would fit on that easily11:15
aquarius_liveMartijnVdS: ha! It took me ages to find a 1GB usb to put the boot disk on ;)11:15
aquarius_livepopey: that's the plan, but obviously recovering the data from this disk is 1.8 zillion times easier than from backups.11:16
aquarius_liveI think my error was suspending it by closing the lid, and then letting it run out of battery. Not that that *should* be an error, mark you, but I shan't do it again.11:16
aquarius_liveso, do I fsck and say yes to all its questions about fixing stuff?11:17
popeyi would go and get another disk and recover that way personally11:17
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: you could run it with -y if you don't want to do that manually11:18
directhexaquarius_live, i don't think you're going to find a better way to recover your data than what fsck tries to do with it11:18
aquarius_livepopey: how do I "recover that way"? Not sure how having another disk helps -- how do I get the data off this one?11:18
aquarius_livedirecthex: ah, cool, that's a useful piece of advice. Will do that.11:18
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: once you have an image, you can do things like photorec on it11:18
directhexmaybe ddrescue11:19
aquarius_liveCertainly another disk sounds like the way (question: how do I know that the problem is the disc and not, say, the controller that it's plugged into?)11:19
arseni hate talk of failing hdds and backups and the like, makes me worry about my data :<11:19
popeyaquarius_live: get new disk, attach via USB (3?) and use live cd to format it then dd the internal disk to the external disk as an image11:19
popeythen fsck that image11:19
MartijnVdSpopey: or even a copy of that image (so you always have the original()11:19
directhexaquarius_live, statistically, it's likely the disk not the controller11:19
aquarius_livepopey: ah, I see now. So I'd need another disc, and an external caddy11:19
arseni wonder how windows7 will handle me dd'ing it onto a SSD.11:19
aquarius_livedirecthex: also useful advice, thank you11:20
MartijnVdSarsen: it'll get confused. a lot.11:20
popeyyeah, just a USB attached 500G jobbie (so you can have two copies plus your data on it)11:20
directhexaquarius_live, nowadays discs in usb caddies are often cheaper than the discs on their own11:20
directhexespecially at pc world prices11:20
aquarius_liveI have server space, but I don't know if I can dd something direct to a remote thing? can i pipe dd's output into scp or something?11:20
arsennetcat \o/11:21
popeyyou can, yes.11:21
aquarius_livewill take one hell of a while sending 120GB over wireless :)11:21
AlanBellaquarius_live: you can dd over the network, but you won't regret having a USB caddy and big disk11:21
AlanBellI have an SSD in a caddy11:21
aquarius_liveI have this idea in my head that I have a caddy somewhere.11:21
MartijnVdSyou can go get those while the dd is doing its thing.. ;)11:21
popeyditto, SSD + USB3 = zoomzoomzoom11:21
aquarius_livewonder what i did with it?11:21
popeyso desktop has done a pass of all the RAM, all passed11:22
arseni'd of assumed a caddy would be more backup purposes, or large data store - than SSD sized usage? :o11:22
popeydepends what you want to use it for11:22
popeyportable desktop11:22
AlanBellarsen: yeah, it just worked out that I had a small ssd, so now have a silent USB drive11:23
aquarius_livecan fscking make the problem *worse*? That is: if I fsck and say yes to the questions, and it doesn't fix the problem, and I then go and get a second drive and a caddy and copy the partition off, might I have ruined that partition in a way that's now unrecoverable and *wouldn't* have been if I hadn't fscked?11:23
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: maybe11:23
popeyanything which causes you to write to the device can, in theory11:23
popeyhence why many recommend dding off it _first_11:23
aquarius_liveI was worried you were going to say taht.11:24
aquarius_livethe hell with it. Let's try fscking, I think.11:24
arsenhow critical is this data?11:25
aquarius_livethe stuff I care about is in Ubuntu One, or in the backups on my server, or is media.11:25
aquarius_live(in roughly increasing order of annoyance to recover)11:25
aquarius_livewow, loads of fsck errors.11:26
MartijnVdSonce an SSD goes, it *goes*11:26
aquarius_liveI do suspect that it running out of battery while suspended has contributed here, since I've never done that before and suddenly I get problems... but it sounds like it's just tickled the hardware into dying11:27
aquarius_livebig question: do I buy a new SSD, or do I use this as an excuse to buy the new dell xps?11:27
MartijnVdSbut all caches are flushed before suspending, so running out of battery on suspend just means RAM gets flushed, right?11:28
popeyethernet cable with broken tag11:28
popeywhats the quick/dirty fix which isn't "buy a new cable"?11:28
MartijnVdSaquarius_live: I'd use it as an excuse ;)11:28
MartijnVdSpopey: http://www.wikihow.com/Crimp-Cat-511:28
popeyoh, i have all those bits11:29
* popey gets them11:29
aquarius_liveblimey. there's no way it's coming back from this batch of errors OK.11:29
MartijnVdSpopey: I have a set similar to this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Network-Cable-Tester-Punch/dp/B000X7XW3W/ (in a nice case and everything)11:30
popeyjust found a crimp tool and 50 ends in my garage \o/11:31
MartijnVdS"50 ends", not quite a good rapper name11:31
aquarius_livewell, it mounts now. ext4, apparently :)11:32
aquarius_liveis it likely to have screwed up grub as well? That is: do I need to do some sort of grub install thing to the now successfully-mountedb drive? Or was grub probably fine before (it got to grub rescue, after all) and just the drive that grub was trying to read was the broken thing?11:34
aquarius_livesuppose I can just try to reboot and see :)11:36
aquarius_livebrb, rebooting.11:36
aquarius__watching laptop with interest. I suspect it will boot but the boot will fail because half the drve is corrupt11:37
aquarius__woah! I have a desktop11:38
directhexthis is a prime time to get a crashplan subscription11:38
aquarius__hm, /tmp is owned by root11:38
aquarius__that's not right11:39
aquarius__other than that.... we seem to be up11:39
aquarius__(er only writable by root that is_11:39
aquarius__directhex: I have u1 for stuff and back up to my server, so that's OK, I think --- well, I'm not sure crashplan would be any *more* OK, if you see what I mean11:41
aquariusam much encouraged, here, but still a bit suspicious.11:44
aquariusam much encouraged, here, but still a bit suspicious.11:44
aquariusthose smartctl errors don't seem too major; they happened a while ago, and widely separated, and weren't data as such.11:45
aquariusso... maybe things are OK ish? Of course, any disc error at all for any reason is basically a big neon sign saying "go and get a new disc".11:45
dwatkinssmartctl can be misleading, I suggest running a disk checking tool regularly11:46
aquariusbut it feels at least a little like the thing screwed up when running out of battery while suspended.11:46
aquariusrather than that the SSD is hardwarily scragged.11:46
dwatkinswhat kind of filesystem is it, aquarius?11:46
dwatkinsah yes, ext411:46
dwatkinsso it should have a journal11:46
aquariusext4, it turns out11:46
aquariusso maybe I didn't throw a seven; it's double sixes and they're just barred :)11:47
popeyi have a bag of rj45 ends which dont fit in rj45 holes11:47
popeyslightly too big11:48
dwatkinssue them!11:48
mungbeanbecause they haven't been crimped yet11:48
dwatkinsobstruction of data11:48
popeyafter crimping11:48
aquariuspopey, is not clear that they are rj45, then. Surely the very definition of "an rj45 end" is "a thing which fits in an rj45 hole" ;)11:48
aquariusweird that such ends would even exist? It's hard to imagine a manufacturing fault that'd cause it... I mean, they must make those by the billion every hour?11:50
popeyso now i have no long cable rather than an unreliable long cable11:50
AlanBellso now your mildly annoying loose cable is not a cable11:50
mungbeanthe trials of WFH11:51
* popey phones the helpdesk11:51
aquariusanyway: thank you popey, directhex, MartijnVdS.11:53
* popey returns from the datacentre with a long cable11:54
popeystill not sure if desktop is okay or not11:55
popeyno longer booting "B4"11:56
popeyeek, mad rain11:59
mungbeanhail and thunder11:59
MooDoosunny and blue skies here12:00
ali1234popey: if the rj45 plugs dont fit it's because you're not crimping them hard enough12:00
penguin42and someone in a different window just said Snow - up here in Manchester we have blue skies12:00
mungbeanor they were produced by moonlighters after the factory closed for the night12:00
ali1234it's normal for them not to fit properly the first time12:01
popeyah okay12:01
ali1234you have to squeeze REALLY hard12:02
mungbeanor get good crimpers12:02
mungbean(and good rj45 ends)12:02
popeyi should probably empty the wasp graveyard http://popey.com/webcam/12:04
Myrttithere was hails in Cambs just an hour ago or so12:04
TheOpenSourcererGosh - just got *really* dark here all of a sudden. Looks like it's about to get really nasty outside...12:05
popeyooo thunder12:05
TheOpenSourcererlol - I heard that too.12:06
AlanBellhail, lots of it12:06
TheOpenSourcererMust have been between here and Farnborough then.12:06
popeyyeah, was quite quiet12:06
TheOpenSourcererMahoosive hail and rain now12:06
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: that a weather term?  mahoosive ;)12:08
MooDooTheOpenSourcerer: maybe we can get it into the dictionary and make it the word of the year 2014, that wold be mahoosive.12:10
DJonesHeh, just listening to a Dr Who episode from the Radio 4 website, very politically incorrect sentance, "I think we should kill it, its not like us, its not British" (set in the early 1960's in Kenya and spoken between to women on finding an injured 'person' in the jungle)12:18
=== alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g
JohnRobertnice, it's taken all morning but I have my postfix/dovecot VM setup12:58
MooDooALL MORNING????!?!12:58
MooDooJohnRobert: It would of taken me 6 months lol12:58
JohnRobertit has mysql virtual users too12:59
JohnRobertI've done it before and I had a good guide to follow12:59
JohnRobertfirst time took a lot longer :p12:59
JohnRobertstill need to integrate spamassasin12:59
popey\o/ DBS13:01
mungbeansomeone remind me what the webmail type of spam queue app is called?13:02
mungbeanthat allows you to quarantine mails between a certain spam score for manual inspectino13:02
JohnRobertpopey: DBS?13:04
JohnRobertdo you mean DJB?13:04
popeythe old CRB checks were renamed to DBS13:05
JohnRobertoh god I'm at the wrong talk at #zceu13:05
JohnRobertoh right13:05
JohnRobertI'm not CRB checked although I could do with getting checked13:05
popeymungbean: spamassassin13:05
popeyDBS is handy because you only do it once13:05
mungbeannahm there's a web interface for spamassassin/amavisd13:05
popeyunlike CRB where each activity needs a check13:05
mungbeanto reject/approve mails13:05
JohnRobertah right I think I've heard of that13:05
popeyDBS auto-renews too13:06
JohnRobertI insist I'm not a nutter13:06
popeyimgur works quite nicely on ubuntu phone13:07
mungbeanMailZu is a simple and intuitive web interface to manage Amavisd-new quarantine. Users can view their own quarantine, release/delete messages or request the release of messages. MailZu is written in PHP and requires Amavisd-new version greater than 2.3.013:07
JohnRobertI'm cutting google out of my life13:07
JohnRobertstarting with gmail13:07
mungbeanzimbra ftw13:07
popeyseen ark? JohnRobert13:08
JohnRobertI've spent all morning setting up postfix so it best not be better than that :p13:08
popeylooks quite neat13:08
popeyruns on a pi13:08
popeyi tried it out, and it's early but has some promise13:08
JohnRobertah awesome13:08
mungbeandevice-ifying the rpi, nice13:10
JohnRobertlooks good popey, I will keep an eye on it13:11
JohnRobertI have my own DIY ideas in mind though13:11
JohnRobertno-ip for my nameservers etc.. heh13:12
popeyI'd be inclined to report/block for spamming their "humour"13:12
mungbeantwitter app on my phone crashes if i hit search button then search button again13:13
mungbeanbring back tweetdeck13:13
popeyi use tweetdeck13:13
JohnRobertubuntu phone...what's that like then?13:13
popeyJohnRobert: http://popey.com/~alan/phablet/gallery.php like that13:13
mungbeantweetdeck on phone not allowed due to twitter 3rd party fail13:14
JohnRobertseems kinda cool13:15
JohnRobertalso I have a nexus413:15
popeytweetdeck isnt 3rd party13:16
JohnRobertwow that's a lot of screen shots13:16
popeyi use https://tweetdeck.twitter.com/ on my desktop13:16
popeyyeah, i upload every screenshot I take13:16
JohnRoberthas all the rough edges I'd expect13:17
JohnRobertwhat's battery life like?13:17
dwatkinsI just wrote down a telephone number instead of copying and pasting it, and it's now not in my copy buffer.13:17
SuperMattwell great. I've got to make a descision. UDS or an interview for a job I'm already iffy about applying for13:17
mungbeanTwitter has officially pulled the plug on TweetDeck for Android and iPhone, as well as the Adobe AIR desktop version, with the retirement of its API v1.13:17
SuperMattdwatkins: I think we've both got first world problems13:18
mungbeanah ok , not 3rd party, but still not worky anymore13:18
popeyJohnRobert: much the same as android13:21
bigcalmHow does one scroll though screen?13:22
JohnRobertI use things like navigation on my nexus13:22
JohnRobertI guess that's not an option on ubuntuphone13:22
penguin42bigcalm: With difficulty - you've got to flip into the right mode13:23
bigcalmpenguin42: which I haven't managed yet :(13:23
penguin42bigcalm: ctrl-a, ctrl-[, then u/d for up down13:24
MartijnVdSCtrl+A ESC works as well to get into the mode, and pgup+down also work once you're in it13:24
bigcalmThanks both :)13:24
JohnRobertBehat looks good13:24
MartijnVdSbigcalm: use tmux (and byobu), much easier ;)13:25
* penguin42 is sure there is some setting that tells you the state of it13:25
MartijnVdSpenguin42: of what?13:25
bigcalmctrl a esc page up/down13:25
penguin42MartijnVdS: On some screen setups it displays a status bar telling you when you go into that mode13:25
bigcalmThat did it for me :)13:25
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
Constaaahello ? anybody here ?14:19
MooDoonot me, i'm away with the fairies ;)14:19
Constaaai love fairys. there always here :/14:19
Constaaaso im kind of new to ubuntu.. anybody got any cool apps to recommend  ? decent chat clients ect ect ?14:20
MooDoowell it depends on what you want to do?   x-chat for a client, although I use a command line version14:21
brobostigonirssi :D14:21
MooDoobrobostigon: yes that's the one.14:21
Constaaayeah fair enough! man i love ubuntu! anybody like linux mint ? that shit looks gooood! :D and whats irssi ?14:21
brobostigonbyobu + irssi + bitlbee :)14:22
MooDooConstaaa: irssi is a command line based irc client, and just watch your language :)14:22
brobostigonirssi is a command line irc client.14:22
Constaaaah wicked, im using xchat IRC, so is this server in the uk ?14:23
brobostigon /whois will tell you.14:23
Myrttithe location of the server is quite irrelevant14:23
Myrttiwe're not sniping enemies in Halflife, even if the ping was a few seconds you wouldn't die14:24
Constaaano i dont mean the location, i just mean is everybody in this chat in england ? or is it world wide14:24
Myrttimostly UK, but around the world14:24
* AlanBell is in Surrey14:24
MartijnVdSmost people have *some* connection to the UK though14:24
MartijnVdS(most ;))14:25
* brobostigon is on the enterpride-d 14:25
Constaaaah right awesome!!! i love the ubuntu community, its so much nicer than the windows/mac14:25
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: Enterpride? Is that during the parade? ;)14:25
brobostigonMartijnVdS: yes, the gay pride perade on enterprise.14:26
MooDooI'd love to know where I am, if only they'd let me out this box.14:26
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: I mean there *are* a lot of men on that starship.. serving together..14:26
brobostigonMartijnVdS: very true.14:26
MartijnVdS Schrödinger's MooDoo ?14:26
awilkinsI always like the cosmopolitan federation attitude to crew relations14:26
Myrttiyou guise14:26
Myrttiyou scared him away14:26
MartijnVdSawilkins: "Like, totes whatevs!"14:26
Constaaawho here listens to metal?! or am i the only one :/14:27
* brobostigon likes his prog-rock14:27
MooDooConstaaa: i prefer copper or tin ;)14:27
MartijnVdSMooDoo: those are metals14:27
Constaaaim more of a rhodium kinda guy.14:28
MartijnVdSMooDoo: copper even qualifies as a heavy metal sometimes 8-)14:28
* awilkins prefers semiconductors14:28
* brobostigon bombards awilkins with silicon bombs14:28
* MartijnVdS dopes awilkins14:28
MooDooConstaaa: as you can see it can be quite serious in here at times ;)14:29
MartijnVdSMooDoo: don't scare him!14:29
brobostigonkeith floyd on bbc2, a good laugh.14:29
* awilkins enjoys the band gap14:29
Constaaawhat seriously cool stuff can i do on my ubuntu desktop?! like things that will blow my mind. ive had it for ages, but only used it for emails and what have you !14:29
Constaaakeith floyd <314:29
awilkinsI always like multiple workspaces14:30
MooDooConstaaa: you need to define cool, what you want to do on your computer?  play games, edit pphotos, make music,14:30
MooDoosticking your fingers in sockets will blow your mind ;)14:30
brobostigon3d modelling ?14:30
* awilkins programs in Java and plays the occasional game14:30
awilkinsLots of text-processing14:30
Constaaamake music, im currently recording an acoustic and i need a good hearty program to use. and well ive tried the socket..14:30
MooDoobrobostigon: blender ftw!14:30
MartijnVdSawilkins: poor you. At least I get to use Perl for the text processing ;)14:30
brobostigonMartijnVdS: yep :)14:30
brobostigonMooDoo: yep :)14:30
brobostigontab fail, :(14:31
awilkinsRunning apps that work on Windows too like Dia, Freemind, etc, is always fun as well14:31
awilkinsHaving a four-monitor setup with Windows on the left two on one machine and Ubuntu on the right two with seamless keyboard / mouse integration is fun14:31
brobostigonblender also has a good video editor, :)14:31
directhexknow what else is fun?14:31
brobostigonquake :)14:32
MartijnVdSthe bits of Steam that work on Ubuntu!14:32
brobostigonminetest ?14:32
awilkinsSteam / Ubuntu is a TERRIBLE idea... I do all my productive work on Ubuntu...14:33
MartijnVdSself-discipline man :)14:33
awilkinsI'm doing OK, installed TF2 and a few other things but seem to resist14:34
MartijnVdSTF2 is only fun if you have people of your own skill to play it with14:35
Constaaais tf2 free now ?14:35
MartijnVdSbut most people who play it do it all day.. making it not fun14:35
MartijnVdSConstaaa: it's free to play, you can get upgrades for it by buying/playing other games I think14:36
Constaaaah right, where do i get it ?14:36
Constaaai miss that game :/14:36
MartijnVdSConstaaa: install steam, then install tf2 from there14:36
ConstaaaI LOVE YOU ALL.14:36
bigcalmAnybody know where the init.d example script it kept?14:45
directhex/etc/init.d/skel ?14:45
bigcalmdirecthex: aha, yes (skeleton on debian)14:46
bigcalmTa :)14:46
Constaaalsxe much smoother! D:14:53
bashrcanyone ever heard of wandboard?15:15
MartijnVdSbashrc: sounds kinky15:15
bashrcit's just another SBC15:15
bashrcam wondering what to use as a next generation server15:16
TheOpenSourcererSounds like something from Hogwarts15:24
MyrttiI was going to say15:25
penguin42bashrc: Yeh quite a nice one from the specs I saw of it15:25
penguin42bashrc: I think there were some limits on the max bandwidth of the ethernet somewhere though - but other than that it was ok15:26
bashrcI think it might be open hardware15:26
TheOpenSourcererAnyone used a wacom type tablet with Ubuntu? Work OK?15:26
TheOpenSourcererMy son wants one for Christmas...15:26
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|tea
bigcalmI have a python script that I need to call as a daemon from init. Is it the init.d script that makes it become a daemon, or does the python script have to be written to be a daemon?15:27
MyrttiTheOpenSourcerer: on and off for years15:27
MyrttiTheOpenSourcerer: they seem to work ok15:28
MyrttiI think even gimp might be good nowadays too15:28
MartijnVdSin single window mode it's great15:28
Myrttithere was a good few years when gimp and wacom didn't play nice at all15:28
Myrttiin comparison to, say Photoshop 615:29
Myrttigood ten years ago that was15:29
TheOpenSourcererYeah - not much recent complaints on G so I guess "it just works"?15:29
Myrttifor the most part yes15:30
TheOpenSourcererI've never even seen one I think, so what's the craic? Do they have USB connectors for tablet & pen or just the tablet?15:32
LaneyI think the pen usually has batteries15:33
MartijnVdSno, it's inductive15:33
MartijnVdSpen is just a bunch of coils15:33
MartijnVdSwith probably some id codes15:33
TheOpenSourcererSomething like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Bamboo-Pen-Graphics-Tablet15:33
MartijnVdSTheOpenSourcerer: that link is broken15:34
TheOpenSourcererJust a single usb by the sounds of it15:36
TwistedLucidityTheOpenSourcer: Got a basic Wacom..works fine. From memory I had to add a Wacom doofer from the repos, mostly so I could configure actions for all the buttons15:43
TwistedLucidityTheOpenSourcerer: Mine is a CTE-440.15:43
=== alan_g|tea is now known as alan_g
mungbeantoday is a 2 packets of crisps kind of day15:45
directhexmonster munch!15:45
TwistedLucidityTheOpenSourcerer: Yup, Graphics Tablet Settings. To be honest, it worked straight away. The settings thing just makes configuration easier.15:51
penguin42mungbean: Unfortunately I haven't found any of these yet http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyle/2013/11/taste-testing-lays-new-chocolate-dipped-potato-chips/15:51
Constaaayo people !! add me on steam! cuddlemonstaaa16:16
dwatkinsyet another Raspberry Pi, or a genius way of presenting the mini computer for kids? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexklein/kano-a-computer-anyone-can-make16:21
TheOpenSourcererdwatkins: yeah I read about this one yesterday. Not sure the box and a few bits is worth it though.16:22
AlanBelldwatkins: it *is* a raspberry pi, just a pretty box to go with it16:23
TheOpenSourcererThey have the "software" apparently, looks like scratch but creates "proper code". Couldn;t find it anywhere so guess that is what the project is there to fund...16:23
dwatkinsyeah, their distro looks (from the initial desktop screenshot) like it's been made a little more child-friendly, and the case has a built-in speaker, which is a nice idea. The flat cables are pretty neat, and it's all in one box, like the Maplin kit but not as annoying ;)16:26
SuperMattok, so if someone were to produce a home server remix, what features would it have installed by default? These are what I have so far:16:37
SuperMattThis follows on from one of the questions posed to Mark during the keynote16:38
penguin42SuperMatt: Hmm I don't know all the packages, so I'd list features - e.g. does that include DLNA server?16:38
neurosod mediatomb16:39
neuroplex media server ftw :)16:39
penguin42SuperMatt: I'd also add print server, backup mechanism of some type16:39
TheOpenSourcererSuperMatt: have you looked at Rygel?16:39
neuroyeah, cupsd would be nice16:40
directhexmediatomb is the most customisable dlna server i've used16:40
TheOpenSourcererI have rygel running at home. My TV and tablets all find it OK.16:40
directhexi.e. you can modify the XML it sends, for slightly nonstandard devices16:40
directhexwhich is most of them IME16:40
directhexa ps3 won't accept the same XML as a samsung TV, for example16:41
neuroyeah, but it looks *awful*16:41
directhexand a samsung TV will play .mkv, as long as you fake the MIME type it sends as MPEG216:41
neurocompare this: http://i1-linux.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/MediaTomb_1.jpg16:42
neuroto this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9kjse7wo5ci3nhd/Screenshot%202013-11-20%2016.42.09.png16:42
SuperMattI've added cups and plex to the list ;)16:42
SuperMattis plex in the repos?16:43
neurosadly, no16:43
TwistedLucidityHmm...ownCloud...that would save me the grief of arguing with mod_security et al myself.....16:43
neurotheir own ubuntu repo stopped working a while back16:43
neuroand sadly, it's not open source16:43
SuperMattah, you can't make an official remix if you want to include something which isn't in repos16:43
neurobut it's *lovely*16:43
SuperMattthen it would have to be mediatomb, I'm afraid16:44
TheOpenSourcerer(16:39:58) TheOpenSourcerer: SuperMatt: have you looked at Rygel?16:44
SuperMattI have not16:44
directhexmediatomb looks like arse, but it works16:44
directhexnot much use having a nice server but the n your TV just shows a spinning cursor forever16:44
TwistedLucidityWould you be using the web front-end much? Surely XBMC or summat would back on to it?16:45
neurowhy would your TV show a spinning cursor forever?16:45
SuperMattany other features you'd want on a home server remix?16:48
neuroif we're wishlisting, some sort of magic interface to rsnapshot16:48
directhexneuro, because it's randomly not working, because DLNA is horrible16:48
SuperMattit's just a remix right now, so it can only be things in the repos16:49
neurodirecthex: you've had problems with plex?16:49
directhexneuro, iirc plex is a transcoding server, i definitely don't want that16:49
neuroit only transcodes to dlna targets that it knows won't accept the codec(s) it's sending16:50
neuroit'll direct play where possible16:50
neurowe appear to have derailed the conversation ;)17:00
TheOpenSourcererIf you based it on Zentyal you'd have file/print/samba/email/IM and plenty more. Just add your dlna server of choice :-)17:03
bigcalmTime to order a 256ishGB SSD for my wife's laptop. Any recomendations?17:56
daftykinsbigcalm: check out the Samsung 840 Pro and 840 EVO, emphasis on the former17:57
bigcalmdaftykins: ta17:57
daftykinsi've dealt with several, they've definitely been the top performer for a while17:57
bigcalmAny others? aquarius? ;)17:57
bigcalmdaftykins: I've only used OCZ so far17:58
aquariusdon't know about ssd makes :)17:58
bigcalmaquarius: which one died on you? I want to avoid it :P17:58
daftykinsanything sandforce controller based you want to avoid, ideally17:58
daftykinsand i'd also advise to stay away from TLC NAND chips too (triple level cell) vs. MLC drives17:59
directhexnote: costs all the money18:02
daftykinsyeah i thought i'd restrict things to sane suggestions :D18:02
directhexbigcalm, i think most major production teething issues are gone, so most consumer SSDs have similar behaviour patterns in all scenarios...18:02
* daftykins whacks directhex with a rolled up newspaper18:03
directhexbigcalm, so i'd highlight things like "warranty terms" and "availability of firmware etc tools" as selection criteria18:03
directhexbigcalm, avoiding sandforce is hard as they run most of the market. basically the only drives without sandforce controllers are OCZ and Samsung18:03
daftykinsnot true, there's still a lot of variation to be had with performance over time18:04
daftykinsbut yeah i agree with looking at warranty, Samsung give 3yrs on the drives i mentioned18:04
daftykinswhich is nice18:04
directhexbigcalm, sandforce controllers were implicated in early major failure rates, mostly on OCZ drives. the biggest determining factor with sandforce controllers is the firmware implementation18:04
directhexwhich is why one sandforce with the same memory might be twice the speed as another18:04
directhexsamsung have their own controller. ocz use indilinx.18:05
aquariusmine's a JMicron, if I remember correctly from this morning18:05
directhexi have two SSDs at home, both near-identical sandforce 240G drives18:06
directhexa kingston and a sandisk18:06
directhexsandforce performance is tied very tightly to two things - how compressible the data is, and whether you have >50% free space18:06
daftykinsbigcalm: if you'd like reliability over say, the top performance to be had, Micron/Crucial's offerings are quite nice too: http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listmodule/SSD/~245760~~M500~/list.html18:06
daftykinsbut yeah the Samsung 840 Pro definitely bests it18:07
directhexcrucial M4 had major firmware issues though. everyone can give FW issues18:07
directhexeven intel18:07
daftykinssure, but not things that threatened the data18:07
daftykinsi had a client with a buggy m4 that BSOD'd his Windows install every 1hr after boot - i was in Australia for a wedding at the time :)18:08
daftykinsphoned up a friend to pop in with a firmware update CD - all fixed in seconds18:08
directhexaquarius, jmicron were a big player around 2008-2010, have faded into obscurity on the ssd controller front18:09
daftykinsi only really know of them as the provider of nasty legacy PATA controllers :D18:10
directhexyeah, that's the  main reason most users have interacted with jmicron - they make IDE controllers which are used to provide IDE ports on modern motherboards18:10
directhexor did. it's a while since i checked18:11
daftykinsthat additional POST time always made me a sad panda18:11
daftykins(my server runs an old PATA optical still)18:11
penguin42yeh it's when it all went PCIe they seemed to be the ones used18:13
aquariusdirecthex, yeah, I believe that; my laptop was bought in Nov 2011, but Lenovo using a fading player is not surprising :)18:13
bigcalmLikely to buy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-256GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7CTY - looking for a cheaper vendor though18:14
directhexaquarius, nowadays they use Intel SSDs with custom, broken firmware that crashes linux18:15
directhexaquarius, i buy my thinkpads with spinning rust, and a samsung ssd separately...18:15
penguin42bigcalm: Scan are more expensive http://www.scan.co.uk/products/256gb-samsung-840-pro-series-basic-25-ssd-7mm-3-core-mdx-21nm-toggle-nand-read-540mb-s-write-520mb-s18:16
bigcalmpenguin42: that's the oposite of what I asked ;)18:17
directhex http://www.getinvisiblehand.com/18:17
bigcalmdirecthex: aha, I used to use that long ago18:18
* bigcalm installs18:18
bigcalmI think I uninstalled it when I was working on a shopping scope with popey *grumbles*18:19
daftykinswow the SSD prices seem to have gone up a touch18:19
daftykinsi wonder what's happening to NAND18:19
bigcalmInvisible Hand says that Amazon's £161 is the best price. Which is a lie18:20
directhexbigcalm, of the retailers it searches, who is cheaper?18:20
bigcalmdirecthex: amazon18:20
bigcalmI put the drive into google shopping. Some results say Samsung SSD 840 Pro Series 250 GB. Likely to be the same drive?18:21
bigcalmdirecthex: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-256GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7CTY18:21
directhexbigcalm, yeah, you said that was a lie. who is cheaper?18:21
bigcalmdirecthex: sorry, I meant that in jest. I know it only searches a sub set of all shops out there18:22
daftykinsbigcalm: the non Pro is 250GB so nah, best check closely18:24
bigcalmOoo, hadn't noticed the lack of 'pro'18:24
bigcalmYep, looks like Amazon is the best18:25
bigcalmHo hum18:25
penguin42heck, AMD are selling an x86 clocked at 4.7GHz with a TDP of 220W18:26
penguin42(for a reasonable price)18:26
penguin42hth do you cool that?18:26
daftykinsbigcalm: what kind of system is it going in?18:26
bigcalmdaftykins: laptop18:26
daftykinsbigcalm: ubuntu?18:27
bigcalmdaftykins: windows 718:27
daftykinsgood stuff, it'll love that :)18:27
directhexactually, never mind18:28
directhexsamsung SSDs are 7mm18:28
bigcalmThese drives are for my wife and father (2 different people). Neither of which have any interest in using anything other than Windows18:28
daftykinsbigcalm: hope this isn't patronising, but be sure to install from win7 SP1 media - it supports partitioning properly on SSDs to '4KB align' them for better performance18:29
bigcalmdaftykins: do, I didn't know that18:29
bigcalmdaftykins: it's whatever I get from Microsoft Partner thingy18:30
daftykinsi have some links to legit win7 media from digital river if you'll be in need of images to install18:30
daftykinsah ok18:30
bigcalmI don't know if it comes with SP1 by default18:30
directhexwin7 isos you can just download from MS18:31
bigcalmI have access to Windows 7 Professional for Partners and Ultimate for Partners18:31
daftykinsyou can delete one file from ultimate and turn it into an install-all-flavours image :D18:32
daftykinsgreat for dealing with peoples systems that've gone wrong18:32
directhexdaftykins, as long as you remaster it as a UEFI install image18:33
directhexfor great justice18:33
daftykinsdepends on the target system but yes :)18:34
bigcalmOdd, the licence page doesn't tell me how many licences we get for windows 718:34
daftykinsmy pet peeve: reinstalling systems where the clients' certificate of authenticity sticker (COA, containing the license key) has rubbed off XD18:35
bigcalmBest place for it is under the battery18:36
directhexdaftykins, modern systems have a license key burned into the firmware, not on a COA18:36
bigcalm(on a laptop)18:36
daftykinsdirecthex: i know, for w818:36
daftykinsdirecthex: i do this for a living don't you know :D18:36
daftykinsbigcalm: agreed18:36
daftykinsleaving them in the open for others to copy down is so daft18:37
directhexdaftykins, do you know how to extract the key as a proper 25 digit install key, from inside ubuntu?18:37
daftykinsno sir18:37
directhexsudo cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM18:37
directhexlast 29 characters of that18:37
daftykinsooh i shall have to save that in my notes, ty18:37
directhexsudo cat /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/MSDM | tail -c 2918:38
directhexshould just print it readably18:38
directhexon windows there's a tool i've used called something like magical jelly bean?18:38
directhexbut if you installed windows with a different key it won18:39
directhexwon't report the firmware key18:39
daftykinsyep - though that's likely to give you a manufacturer key if factory installed 8 ones use a master key rather tha the individual18:39
daftykinsi like that prog for rescuing peoples MS Office keys :)18:39
directhexalso, win8.1 installer refuses win8 key18:40
daftykinsactually... :) i've gotten around that18:40
MartijnVdSdirecthex: well because you should UPGRADE to it 8-)18:40
daftykinseveryone knows that installing what is ultimately a Service Pack after the OS is infinitely inferior to having slipstreamed media18:41
daftykinsdirecthex: there are guides online for how to use the 8 and 8.1 download programs to grab an 8.1 ISO, then with a little trickery you can make it install without needing a key entered - by the first boot it asks for you to enter a key again, at which time an 8.1 key is accepted \o/18:41
* bigcalm plays lego marvel super heros while the oven heats up18:42
bigcalmAh, the good life :)18:43
penguin42(via BBC news)18:43
MartijnVdSI'm going to tcpdump my Samsung one as well18:43
daftykinsi think i saw that advertised on the Xbox dashboard18:43
daftykinspenguin42: i like his test filename18:48
penguin42daftykins: I like that the BBC used that on their page about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-2501822518:50
daftykinssee if i was reporting something major, i'd keep my examples family friendly18:50
penguin42you would?18:51
MartijnVdSSomeone tell Jono: ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9sHIQaFVC818:51
penguin42daftykins: So you'd just stick to dawrf tossing?18:51
directhex:o winamp is being killed off!18:52
daftykinsbut it's the best :(18:52
directhex"Winamp.com and associated web services will no longer be available past December 20, 2013. Additionally, Winamp Media players will no longer be available for download."18:52
daftykinspenguin42: oh, naturally :)18:52
daftykinsi'm going to have to start stashing installers everywhere18:52
daftykinsthat is seriously sucky news18:53
daftykinsdirecthex: where's this?18:53
MartijnVdSI remember running one of the first versions, from the 90s18:54
directhexdo you remember it really whipping the llama's ass?18:54
MartijnVdSdirecthex: of course!18:55
daftykinsi can see a " /> top left18:55
MartijnVdSdirecthex: I remember my CPU being too slow to decode MP3s realtime :)18:55
MartijnVdShttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Winamp1.006.PNG that one!18:55
daftykinstrying to remember if my Pentium 1 120MHz struggled or not18:58
daftykinsit was probably fine18:59
MartijnVdSyeah pentiums were fine19:00
MartijnVdS486-33, not so much19:00
daftykinsseriously though, winamp :'(19:01
MartijnVdSdoes xmms still exist?19:01
daftykinsit hasn't been touched since like, the year dot.19:02
MartijnVdSxmms2 exists as well19:03
MartijnVdSbut I have no idea what it cando19:03
daftykinsprobably not much19:05
ali1234pentium 133 struggled with mp3 - it would use like 85% CPU, so on windows it skipped a lot19:08
MartijnVdSah yes, but my 233MMX was fine19:09
daftykinsguess it depended on bitrate19:10
daftykinsi still remember a friend giving me my first mp3, zipped across 3+ floppies to get it over :(19:11
MartijnVdSdaftykins: my brother had a friend who had a CD burner and cable internet (128 kilobits/second!)19:17
daftykinsdirecthex: my friend is doing a PhD in Physics at Brighton Uni, he's looking at trying to get them to purchase a system with decent storage as he's dealing with hundreds of gigabytes daily. do you think you could provide some advice on a sensible Linux server to obtain? :D19:19
daftykinsMartijnVdS: wowzer :D19:19
MartijnVdSdaftykins: yeah, he lived in a huge house as well. Rich parents.19:22
daftykinsi still kinda giggle at my friends that had ISDN19:24
daftykinssuch little benefit XD19:24
MartijnVdSI had ISDN, the benefit was that my mother picking up the phone didn't kill my downloads :)19:24
daftykinsi had my own line and AOL unmetered 56k :'(19:25
MartijnVdSusing the dual-line 128kbit was also twice as expensive19:25
daftykinsyeah i remember seeing individual pricing19:25
dwatkinsI'm glad to have fibre-to-the-cabinet, although bitcasa have just upped their price for unlimited storage from $99 a year to $999 a year O.O19:27
dwatkinsFor that price, I might as well buy a new Synology every 18 months.19:27
daftykinsthat's a slight increase!19:29
dwatkinsyeah, I wouldn't mind, but the amount of data I'll have on their servers is a tier or so above the new $99 price mark (1 TB for that much, I have at least 2 TB).19:30
kevin-laptopJust got my brother in law a new laptop and yes it has windows 8 on it. Going to nuke it but just wanted to check if anybody had any experience with HP not allowing you to claim on the warranty if Linux is installed?19:31
dwatkinsI thought that was PC World, kevin-laptop.19:31
MartijnVdSkevin-laptop: On my Dell, I had the option to create a "rescue USB stick", which I can use to get Windows back if necessary19:31
dwatkinsThere was a famous case of the hinge being broken and some company refusing to support it because the user had installed linux.19:32
kevin-laptopAhhh ok19:32
kevin-laptopWell I would make the rescue stick19:32
kevin-laptopBut ...19:32
kevin-laptopI don't want to rescue Windows 8 ... ever19:32
MartijnVdSdwatkins: not allowed anymore in Europe19:32
dwatkinsAlso, it might be worth resizing the Windows partition (Assuming that's still possible with Windows 8) in case it's still needed, or at least dual-booting it during install.19:32
dwatkinsMartijnVdS: good19:32
daftykinskevin-laptop: it's always good to provide it for others regardless :) now is the time, after all.19:32
daftykinsif you don't, you're stopping someone else from having the choice down the line19:32
daftykinsfor even potential resale19:33
kevin-laptopHhmmmm I'll see how much space it wants for it's recovery feature then19:33
MartijnVdSkevin-laptop: mine needed 10GB USB stick, which can't be used for anything else19:33
dwatkinsat very least, I'd make sure the Windows 8 serial number and install media are easily available.19:33
MartijnVdSdwatkins: OEM Win8 doesn't come with install media19:33
kevin-laptopNo serial number on the bottom :(19:33
MartijnVdSSerial is in the firmware somewhere19:33
dwatkinsoh, I had the option of paying extra for a Win8 DVD.19:33
kevin-laptopHe will never use the windows 8 on it at the moment19:34
kevin-laptopAs long as I can claim on warranty then I'll nuke it19:34
dwatkinsIt's probably got loads of unnecessary bloat too.19:34
dwatkins[aside from Windows, of course]19:34
daftykinskevin-laptop: nah 8 licenses are in the BIOS now19:35
daftykins(the key)19:35
kevin-laptopAhhh ok19:35
kevin-laptopI assume they're only in the UEFI BIOS?19:35
daftykinskevin-laptop: handily, directhex told me how to dump the key from the BIOS just earlier :D19:35
daftykins(with Linux)19:35
kevin-laptopOh :)19:35
daftykinsyou may be able to use that key to download the ISO from Microsoft too19:36
daftykinsso you may not even have to worry about making restore media19:36
kevin-laptopIt's funny how many laptops I've had to remove Windows 8 from for clients19:36
kevin-laptopNobody wants it19:36
ali1234yet they pay for it anyway19:36
kevin-laptopIndirectly ;)19:37
daftykinsalthough you can just install classicshell.net19:37
daftykinsgive them that 7 experience on 819:37
kevin-laptopHave a few doing that19:38
kevin-laptopI run Windows 8 solely for Battlefield 419:38
dwatkinsI have start8, works well enough considering I paid £25 for Windows 8 to play games on.19:38
MartijnVdSI have Win8 on a touch-screen laptop, dual-booting with Ubuntu19:39
MartijnVdSand using the touch screen, Win8 isn't too bad once you have 8.119:39
kevin-laptopIt does look very touch optimised19:40
daftykinsi got the cheap upgrade 8 but i've yet to use it19:40
daftykinsonly 8 Pro can be 'downgraded' to 7 legally19:43
dwatkinsI miss NT 3.51.19:49
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

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