mdzaes: feedback on the menus would be good to have on the sounder list; I believe there's already a thread on it12:25
seb128mdz: no, the thread is on warty list12:26
mdzhmm, it should be on sounder12:26
seb128should probably be moved on sounder12:26
seb128yes ...12:26
lamontKamion: I wonder if it would be possible to get the cd-creation code and an rsync-able directory of the ISO contents somewhere - that'd probably go faster than rsync'ing the iso, I think12:31
aesis warty list a list I should be on, or not?12:37
mdzno, that is the list where these discussions took place before we had the sounder list; it is obsolete for that purpose12:42
Kamionlamont: the CD-creation code is at http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/code/ plus colin.watson@canonical.com--2004/cdimage--mainline--0, but I wouldn't really advise doing it that way at the moment ...12:49
Kamionlamont: you could also try netboot?12:50
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lamontKamion: yeah, I could at that.  What I'm actually going to do is hit an internet cafe in town tonight12:58
=== lamont gets dragged out the door for a while
Kamionerk, has the terminal been removed from the menu entirely?01:15
mdzKamion: Applications->System Tools->Terminal?01:16
Kamionnot as of the latest gnome-panel01:16
Keybukseb reverted that one, didn't he?01:19
mdzit's still there for me01:19
Keybuksystem tools jumped menus briefly01:19
mdzgnome-panel 2.7.91-0ubuntu201:19
Kamionyou can get to it by right-click-on-desktop->Open Terminal, but that really sucks on PowerMacs which only have one mouse button01:19
KamionI have here01:19
Kamiongnome-vfs2 2.7.91-0ubuntu4 required apparently, ok01:21
seb128accidently removed the system tools menu 01:21
Kamiongood stuff, I was afraid it was deliberate :-)01:21
Kamionthanks for the fix01:21
seb128you're welcome :)01:22
Kamionmind you we should configure mouse button emulation on powermacs by default, I think ...01:22
Oskuroseb128: the entire menu? nice :D01:26
seb128Oskuro: that's a sub-menu of Applications dude :)01:27
Oskuroseb128: heh, if I didn't have enough with gtk and nautilus for "big uploads I need to do", I just did abiword to complete the set :)01:27
Oskuroseb128: yeah, still :)01:27
seb128Oskuro: yes, I've seen that01:27
seb128Oskuro: but I've not seen the nautilus one01:27
seb128Oskuro: do you need some help for the uploads ?01:28
KeybukKamion: warty base ... has that not been set with priorities?01:30
Keybukstuff like discover and evms are "optional" according to aptitude01:30
Oskuroseb128: I guess I can manage, but if I haven't done them by tomorrow at 17:00 I guess you could do one of gtk or nautilus01:31
Kamionpriorities haven't been changed AFAIK01:31
Kamionhell, they aren't in sync in Debian :-)01:31
Keybukso what's the easiest way to install base from an existing install?01:31
Oskurowith gtk we need to be very careful first to check it really doesn't need shlib bumping01:31
seb128Oskuro: ok, just let me know01:31
Oskuroseb128: k01:31
KamionKeybuk: debootstrap01:31
Kamion(hey, shouldn't debootstrap be in Ship?)01:31
Keybukwill that upgrade an existing machine?01:31
KeybukI thought it just made new ones?01:31
Kamionconfused, what are you trying to do?01:32
Kamionyes, debootstrap constructs new directory trees01:32
Keybukchange my debian/unstable machine into a warty one01:32
Kamionoh, I don't think we have a good way to identify "just base" in that situation ... although I'm not sure why you'd want that01:33
=== Kamion channels arch developers
Keybukbecause then it wouldn't be a warty machine?01:33
Kamionwarty is more than just base01:33
Keybukyeah, but isn't having base important?01:33
Kamionif you only have warty main in /etc/apt/sources.list then aptitude will tell you what's obsolete/local01:33
Kamionpkg-diff.py? :)01:34
Keybukyeah the obsolete/local stuff I've dealt with01:34
KeybukI've still got a huge bunch of "not installed" packages though01:34
Keybukand it's not easy to work out which I'm supposed to have01:34
Kamionmaybe we should have a "Task: base" so that you can do that easily01:34
Kamionsounds like a reasonable thing to add01:35
Kamionwhich reminds me, I need to fix aptitude to stop putting Desktop in "Unrecognized tasks"01:35
mdzKeybuk: apt-get install `debootstrap --print-debs ...`01:39
Kamionmdz is more awake than I am01:41
KamionI underestimated how many things were hard-coded into aptitude's source ... like /usr/share/tasksel/debian-tasks.desc01:41
mdzdoes it work to have a package which is part of multiple tasks?01:42
mdzyes, a base task would be nice01:42
Kamionlots of packages are part of multiple tasks in Debian01:44
Kamionchinese-s, chinese-t and cyrillic-desktop, russian-desktop seem pretty common at a glance01:45
Keybukok, so...01:45
KeybukI have both warty and unstable in sources.list01:45
Keybukwarty is pinned at 75001:45
Keybukapt wants to upgrade all the packages over to the unstable ones01:45
Keybuk(they're all the same version as the warty ones)01:45
mdzKeybuk: it doesn't work to have both warty and unstable in sources.list01:46
mdzwarty and unstable have packages which have the same version number but are actually different01:47
Keybukyeah, I'm noticing this01:47
Kamion--\ Tasks01:47
Kamion  --\ End-user01:47
Kamion    --\ Ubuntu desktop environment01:47
Kamionmuch better01:47
KamionI wonder if we shouldn't be calling our tasks "ubuntu-base" and "ubuntu-desktop" though01:47
Keybukit's kinda annoying ... there are some people who are going to want to cherry-pick from unstable still01:47
=== Keybuk is taking the more up-to-date bluetooth and mono stuff, for example
Kamionthat way things won't have to break hideously if somebody decides to install tasksel from universe01:48
mdzKeybuk: that's what hoary is for01:48
Keybukyeah, I guess our release process is fast enough that this isn't going to be a *real* problem01:48
mdzusers should never need to go to Debian to get new stuff; we'll have it all in universe01:48
Keybukhave we fired up hoary yet?01:49
Keybukor is that blocking on me not coding fast enough? :p01:49
mdzhct star-merge debian01:50
Keybukhct steal debian01:50
Keybukgrep -q off-line /proc/acpi/ac_adapter/*/state01:50
Keybuk^ did thom not know about "on_ac_power" ?01:51
sabdflnpmccallum: see my bug on grub bootsplash?01:56
Keybukonce we get gold cvs & svn imports available, we'll then be able to put the upstream tarball imports on top, and then add debian and redhat01:58
npmccallumsabdfl: yes, I already responded01:58
Keybukmy plan for debian is to go back to the ubuntu split point using snapshot, and then import every release from there onwards01:58
npmccallumsabdfl: Colin already posted a patch, I'll check it tomorrow01:58
Keybukthen we can make an ubuntu branch and import the warty changes with sourcerer onto it01:58
npmccallumsabdfl: I have to get a basic usplash in post-haste01:58
Keybukand at *that* point, we can branch for hoary01:59
Keybukthere's a lot of cards there though :-/01:59
Kamionnpmccallum: the patch as posted is wrong, but I've tested with a similar change and it's fine02:02
Kamion        if [ -n "$boot_device" ] ; then02:02
Kamion                splash="${splash#/boot}"02:02
Kamion        fi02:02
Kamion        echo "splashimage=$grub_root_device$splash" >> $buffer02:02
sabdflnight all02:03
npmccallumKamion: if it works, can you patch it and upload it?02:03
Kamionnpmccallum: sure, let's make it tomorrow though :-)02:03
npmccallumKamion: np02:03
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npmccallummdz: we have usplash packages :)06:49
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fabbionemorning guys07:11
npmccallumfabbione: morning?  I'm going to bed :)07:14
fabbionenpmccallum: ain't my fault if you leave in the wrong tz ;)07:17
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Mithrandirgood morgning08:57
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fabbionemorning Mithrandir 08:58
fabbioneMithrandir: are you busy?08:58
Mithrandirfor a little bit, yes.08:59
fabbioneok. did you have any time to check the changes to apache?09:00
fabbionewe are really running out of time now09:00
fabbioneOverfiend: never mind.. i get it09:03
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justdaveif anyone read the review I just posted on the sounder list, you know my X is dead. :)  Would anyone like to help me fix it?  I'm tired of working on console :)11:23
justdaveX comes up, but the screen is scrambled11:26
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justdaveI'm out of ideas for what to try.  (this is on an iBook)11:27
fabbionejustdave: sure..11:27
fabbionefirst.. apt-get --purge remove xserver-xfree8611:28
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fabbionethen be sure that there is no /etc/X11/XF86Config-411:28
fabbioneapt-get update11:28
fabbioneapt-get upgrade11:28
fabbioneapt-get install xresprobe discover1 mdetect laptop-detect11:29
fabbioneapt-get install xserver-xfree8611:29
fabbionethis should put all the correct things in the right place11:29
=== ddaa notes that as far as he knowes, the ibook2 video adapter needs some quite voodoo options in the X config.
fabbionewhich kind of magic?11:36
fabbioneis there any way to detect that we are working on a ibook2?11:36
fabbioneif so what needs to be done to make it working properly?11:36
justdaveok, it's upgrading.11:39
=== justdave notes that xresprobe says I have no resolution if I run it manually
fabbionejustdave: than you will get asked for the resolution you want.11:40
fabbioneand that's up to you to put reasonable values11:40
justdaveit's giving me 1152x864 as the default choice again.11:43
=== justdave deselects it and picks 1024x768
fabbionejustdave: it's a hardencoded choise11:44
fabbioneif the probe fails i have no way to know what is the resolution for your laptop11:44
justdaveok, it started, and the video is still scrambled.11:45
fabbioneotherwise i wouldn't bother to ask11:45
justdaveso I guess we need to figure out what that ibook2 voodoo is :)11:45
fabbionejustdave: can you send me /var/log/XFree86.0.log11:46
fabbioneyes also11:46
fabbionejustdave: but we need to be sure it is possible to recognize that we are working on a ibook211:46
mjg59What's the name of the network applet you're using by default11:46
justdavethe model number is available in /proc/(something)/serial-number11:48
justdavewhat address do I mail it to?11:48
fabbionefabbione@fabbione.net 11:48
justdave /proc/device-tree/serial-number11:49
justdavethe first three characters are the last three of the serial number, then model number follows, followed by the first 8 of the serial number11:50
fabbionejustdave: i have no ppc at home11:50
justdaveno clue why it's wrapped around like that, but it is.11:50
fabbionei have no clue of ibook ser numbers but i would like to have something more robust than that11:51
justdavegetting a nameserver timeout trying to find your mail server :(11:54
justdavemy dns is working, I can look up other domain names, but it says "no servers could be reached" when I try fabbione.net11:56
fabbioneyes i am checking11:56
justdavethe mail is going to bounce anyway, postfix seems to think my domain name is ibook.rieo.kni11:57
fabbionethe isp where my dns's are hosted is down11:57
justdaveI was on the hotel's LAN when it was installed, so that's what it stuck in the main.cf file. heh12:00
justdaveok, postfix config is fixed.  I mailed it again, but it's queued since your dns it down.  you'll get it eventually :)12:01
fabbionejustdave: did X work while we were in Oxford?12:01
fabbionewithout any magic?12:02
justdaveI had sid that I overwrote with warty via apt-get dist-upgrade12:02
justdavewhich was kind of flaky in other places, but X worked.12:02
justdaveon Friday I backed up my home directory, wiped it, and did a clean install of warty 612:03
fabbionejustdave: in that case X config was not overwritten12:03
=== fabbione mumbles about Refresh rates...
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justdaveso my X config from sid would probably work, except that I didn't save it.12:04
justdaveI did get it to work *once* after installing warty 6, but I haven't been able to repeat it again since.12:04
justdavethat was after a remove --purge and reinstalling the package off the CD.12:05
fabbionejustdave: please try this: edit your X config file12:05
justdavebut after getting the newer one from the online repository, I couldn't get it to work again, even after reverting to the one on the CD12:05
fabbionego to Section "Monitor"12:05
fabbioneand add these 2 lines:12:05
fabbioneHorizSync "28-49"12:06
fabbioneVertRefresh "43-72"12:06
fabbionerestart X12:07
justdaveok, it won't even start now.12:08
justdavejust get the error dialog from GDM saying it's going to disable it12:08
fabbionejustdave: i need to see the log12:08
fabbioneat least the last part of it with the error12:08
=== fabbione justdave copy and paste here
justdaveI'm on console, not sure how to do that12:09
fabbionejustdave: ssh ?12:09
fabbioneput it on a web somewhere?12:09
fabbioneanywhere it's fine12:09
justdaveoh, that's a thought.12:09
justdavehang on12:09
justdavehmm, that's obvious in that log...12:14
=== justdave pokes at the config
justdavehmm, it *is* followed by a range of numbers.12:14
fabbione<fabbione> HorizSync "28-49"12:15
fabbionetry to remove the ""12:15
fabbioneyeah it's without ""12:15
fabbionealso for the Vertical12:15
justdavedone, works :) :)12:16
fabbioneis X scrambled now?12:16
justdavenope, it's perfect12:16
=== fabbione would like to cross-burn someone
fabbionejustdave: thanks12:16
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justdavefabbione: thank you much for the assistance. :)12:18
=== justdave will be back shortly from xchat :)
hrdwrbob_time for ubuntu instlal on this box12:18
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justdaveirssi is actually quite nice for a text client.12:19
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=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/ un: sounders, pw: oink | Sounder CD 7 released
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Tue Aug 24 16:57:26 2004
fabbionejustdave: you around?01:17
fabbioneanybody with a ppc?01:18
hrdwrbob_no sorry01:22
hrdwrbob_four intels no ppc :/01:22
fabbionehrdwrbob_: thanks01:22
=== fabbione just needs to know if uname -m on ppc returns alway powerpc
thomI DID HAVE, until some fascist stole it01:22
Mithrandirthom: how do you know he wasn't a liberal, or a labourer?01:23
thomroyal% uname -m01:23
hrdwrbob_thom: have you located, beaqten, subdued, hung, drawn, quarted, and smacked the suspected perpetrator??01:23
Mithrandirfabbione: I think it might return ppc64 as well01:23
fabbionealso on custom kernel?01:23
thomthat's a patched but basically standard debian kernel01:23
fabbionexresprobe uses $ARCH to detect if we are on ppc...01:24
fabbionebut $ARCH isn't set anywhere01:24
fabbioneso i need to find a way other than dpkg-architecture to detect it01:24
fabbioneperhaps /proc/cpuinfo ?01:25
thomthere are ppc boxes that don't say 'ppc' to uname -m?01:25
fabbionethom: i would love to know that...01:26
=== fabbione doesn't have ppc
thomi doubt there are01:27
fabbionethom: can you do a test for me if you can? but you will have to exit X01:28
fabbioneah no01:28
fabbionenever mind..01:28
fabbionei need justdave to do it01:29
KamionI can't imagine any answers other than ppc or ppc64 ever01:31
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justdavedave@ibook [12:32 malone 43]  tcsh> uname -m01:33
fabbionejustdave: please test this for me:01:34
fabbioneexport ARCH=powerpc01:34
justdaveDriver must be specified.01:35
fabbionejustdave: well specify a driver please01:35
justdavedave@ibook [12:34 malone 48]  tcsh> xresprobe ati01:35
justdavegrep: /tmp/xprobe.7357/xfree86.log: No such file or directory01:35
justdavegrep: /tmp/xprobe.7357/xfree86.log: No such file or directory01:35
justdaveid: Generic Laptop LCD01:35
justdavedave@ibook [12:35 malone 49]  tcsh> xresprobe r12801:35
justdaveid: Generic Laptop LCD01:35
fabbionejustdave: which version?01:35
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justdaveii  xresprobe      0.2-0ubuntu2   X Resolution Probe01:36
=== Kamion notes this in the netcfg changelog in d-i svn:
Kamion    - Give the user a choice to leave the network unconfigured if nothing is02:25
Kamion      plugged in. (Closes: #264476)02:25
KamionI think I'll do a merge02:25
sladen...or even if it is     eg, it's detected the hotel wireless but using that (because it doesn't work) will fsck the rest of the install process over02:26
justdaveyeah, I had that problem this morning trying to mail logs to fabbione...02:27
justdavethe laptop wound up with the hotel LAN's domain name in the postfix config02:27
Kamionwireless detection is at a separate layer in netcfg, will look at it separately02:27
=== Kamion is desperately trying to pull the netcfg problems apart to the point where he can look at them one at a time
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lamontjustdave: dhcp is not always your friend.02:43
KamionMithrandir: for future reference, it's "#, fuzzy", not "# , fuzzy"02:47
=== Kamion is fixing netcfg now after debconf-updatepo did fun things
MithrandirKamion: ahkay, I copied stuff off somewhere else.03:01
fabbionecan anybody kindly confirm me if xresprobe has been accepted?03:27
fabbione(i am without mails)03:27
mdz*yawn* morning03:37
mdzfabbione: version?03:38
mdz-rw-r--r--          637  2004-08-25 14:25  xresprobe_0.3-0ubuntu1.dsc03:38
mdzsource is in the archive03:38
mdzno binaries yet03:38
fabbionemdz: thanks03:39
fabbioneno problem about the binaries... they can wait03:39
Kamionmdz: working on upgrading our netcfg to be based on Debian 1.01, which has several fixes we want; hope that's ok03:44
mdzKamion: if you're ok, I'm ok03:46
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thomKamion: remind me how to get d-i to select the "copy all debs to disk" udeb?04:05
Kamionthom: boot with anna/choose_modules=archive-copier04:07
Kamionthom: and remember to boot with KEEP_DEBS=yes on the first reboot04:07
thombooting with APIC *utterly* fries my desktop - the installer just randomly hangs :/04:08
mjg59Which network applet are you guys using by default?04:10
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lamontmdz: tetex-base appears to have a bug related to dh_fixperms :-(04:15
mdzlamont: _another_ bug? grr...04:15
lamontthat's the /var/cache/fonts/* perms issue04:16
mdzthis package has problems04:16
lamontit sets them to 1777, and then (I think - verifying now) dh_fixperms "fixes" them to 75504:16
lamonts/has/is/ :(04:16
mdzKamion: oh, forgot to mention...I did another round of sounder 7 testing using archive-copier and KEEP_DEBS=yes; seemed to work perfectly04:16
lamontverified broken in current-sid...  time to fix and fiel04:18
Kamionmdz: kewl04:20
rburtonhm, print in xpdf doesn't work for me04:22
rburtonlooks like it neglects a formfeed to get the printer to actually print04:23
mdzprinting works in other apps?04:24
rburtonnot all04:24
=== rburton wonders why gnome-cups-manager gives him an inkjet icon for a laserjet
Kamionmdz: that iftab thing in netcfg could go upstream, couldn't it?04:25
mdzKamion: I assume so04:26
thomKamion: um, current sounder daily seems well and truly unhappy04:31
=== thom tries it again
thomdidn't start base-config after the reboot, no /etc/network/interfaces, no entry in sudoers04:32
thomon i386, this is04:34
Kamionno idea how that could happen04:36
Kamionit was fine yesterday04:36
thomtrying it again04:36
thomthis system throws up some entertainments04:37
thomooh, that's a fun one04:45
thommy dvd-rom drive only admits to being a dvd drive, not a cdrom drive. so /dev/dvd -> /dev/hdc and /dev/cdrom -> /dev/hdd04:46
thom(hdd is the rewriter)04:46
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eddoh, ubuntu's metacity has some composite smarts, it seems. nice.04:51
mdzdaniels: ping04:53
danielsmdz: pong04:53
mdzdaniels: are you logged into jabber from someplace else?  tried to reach you there first04:53
danielsmdz: er, afaik I haven't been logged into Jabber for the last 48h. what's up?04:54
fabbionewas xresprobe 0.3-0ubuntu2 accepted?04:54
mdzfabbione: not yet04:55
fabbionehmm i uploaded it 15 minutes ago....04:55
fabbioneelmo: is katie running?04:55
=== fabbione HATES to be without mails
whiprushwill any mono apps be bundled with core? Or are they just going to remain in "universe"?05:00
Keybukwhiprush: hoary probably; we froze warty before mono 1.005:01
whiprushah, k.05:01
Keybukand even the Ximian guys aren't hugely pushing the mono apps yet, so hoary is probably the right timeframe for it anyway05:01
=== whiprush nods.
whiprushI think I'm already addicted to f-spot is all.05:02
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mjg59thom: What happened to the dreadful laptops?05:52
thomkamion has the C3 and the amd, iirc05:53
thomseb got the tosh05:53
mjg59Right, I need to harass Colin then05:54
mjg59thom: Ultra-rad laptop support should include netapplet05:55
thommjg59: i was thinking that05:55
=== edd has it running on his ubuntu setup today
mjg59Have you tested it?05:55
eddit's very nice05:56
thomgonna talk to jdub when he gets back05:56
thomi'm amd64 monkey currently05:56
mjg59I've just fixed a bug that meant it picked up multiple copies of the same interface if ipv6 was being used05:56
mjg59It still doesn't deal with mapping stanzas, but other than that it seems pretty solid05:56
=== thom goes to get more strong caffiene
eddmjg59: looks like the netapplet has the same bug about the notification area disappearing that many apps have, sigh06:02
danielsedd: i suspect that's the one psi has06:02
mjg59edd: Which one is that?06:02
mjg59I had someone complaining that they couldn't see the icon, but could click on it06:02
danielsedd: half the time, psi just kicks up a new window with its notification icon, instead of using the area06:03
eddit's crash-on-re-add notif area06:03
danielssometimes that window is blank, and the icon is in the panel's area06:03
edddaniels: sounds like a different bug06:03
Kamionmjg59: what about them?06:03
eddmjg59: this one's caused by c&p from broken code in libegg example. rhythmbox and gnome-obex-server get it right.06:03
=== Kamion is just testing new netcfg on the amd now, since it has no wireless card
eddmjg59: if i get the energy i'll make a patch06:04
danielsedd: rad06:04
mjg59edd: Thanks - that sounds good06:04
mjg59Kamion: Getting hold of the dsdt from the C3 would be good, if possible06:04
eddand meanwhile i spit flaming plastic death at libegg06:04
Kamionmjg59: what's a dsdt?06:04
mjg59Kamion: What you get when you cat /proc/acpi/dsdt :)06:04
mjg59It's the table that tells the ACPI interpreter how to manage the hardware06:05
Kamionok, I haven't taken the C3 out of its box yet actually, but remind me tomorrow06:05
Kamionor if it's more urgent I'll make time this evening06:05
danielsit's not urgent. he's been waiting weeks already, he can deal with some more ;)06:06
mjg59Yeah, it's not urgent06:06
=== Kamion is totally surrounded by hardware atm
Kamionit's getting quite scary06:06
thomgaim is broken wrt notification area, too06:07
mjg59Why did you end up with the C3? Just for C3 testing, or because you have sinned?06:07
danielsKamion: well, clearly you have no need for that grey pos and can send it to me ;)06:08
Kamionmjg59: I suspect a bit of both :-)06:09
Kamionmjg59: Mark wanted to arrange for me to have more scary installer-testing facilities, I think06:09
Kamionthe amd is being incredibly useful as a source of entirely trashable disk06:10
Kamionso I can actually answer yes to "Erase entire disk?" without being terrified06:11
thomyay, xscreensaver segfaults on amd6406:11
thomhow lovely06:11
Mithrandirthom: it does?06:12
thomit just did, but i have no idea what module it was trying to run06:12
thommost modules seem fine06:12
Mithrandirblank works very stable. :)06:12
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mjg59thom: 3D failure?06:13
thom0: child pid 5066 (noof) exited abnormally06:15
thomi wish xscreensaver didn't suck so hard06:16
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thomnoof is one of the nice ones, too06:16
danielsKamion: you have an amd64?06:16
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Mithrandirdaniels: all cool people have amd64s06:19
danielsMithrandir: bah06:19
thomMithrandir: so just you and me then? ;-)06:19
Mithrandirthom: yup ;)06:20
Kamiondaniels: not quite yet06:25
danielsKamion: rad06:27
KamionI think netcfg 1.01ubuntu1 should be a considerable improvement; it doesn't ask me those IP address questions when I'm without a network card, now.06:42
KamionI might do an ubuntu2 to make it ask you if you forgot to plug the network cable in06:42
Mdthere should be a way to check if there is no link, but I can't remember it...06:44
Kamionnetcfg's already doing that06:45
Kamionit uses mii-diag06:45
Kamionright, add "... if mii-diag said the card was unlinked" to the end of what I said06:45
KamionI keep being surprised every time another Debian person shows up here :-)06:46
Kamion"eth0 does not seem to be connected to any sort of network. This could be due to a missing network cable or network adapter malfunction. ..."06:47
mdznpmccallum: after setting up vesafb, I get: Starting Ubuntu..., delay while initrd runs, nice animation, then some kernel messages overwrite parts of it, then a black screen with scrolling text while the animation continues to play only in the center of the screen06:53
mjg59Kamion: What does mii-diag output if you're using coax rather than rj45?06:53
mdzperhaps console= is also needed?06:53
Mithrandirmjg59: "crack"? :)06:53
mjg59Actually, I can test this...06:53
mdzmjg59: you can?  ewww06:54
mjg59mdz: My network setup partially dates back to the time when I couldn't afford a hub06:55
mjg59SIOCGMIIPHY on eth0 failed: Operation not supported06:55
Kamionmjg59: haven't the foggiest idea06:55
npmccallummdz: try sticking -- /bin/echo "0 0 0 0" > /proc/sys/kernel/printk -- in mountvirtfs just after the -- domount proc "" /proc -- line06:55
mjg59Oops - that's entirely the wrong machine06:56
Kamionnew netcfg gives you the option to configure the network statically, anyway (defaulting to "no, just go ahead and ignore the network please")06:56
npmccallummdz: also, does your kernel cmdline have console=tty1?06:56
Kamionif mii-diag fails06:56
mjg59Ok, it gives me SIOCGMIIPHY on eth0 failed: Operation not supported on an ne200006:57
npmccallummdz: actually, with the console=tty1 option, you may not need the echo line06:57
mjg59It also gives me that if I run it on a wireless card06:57
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npmccallummdz: you *do* still need the echo line07:04
mdznpmccallum: I tried with console=tty1; no difference07:07
npmccallummdz: are you getting initscript messages? or kernel messages?07:08
npmccallummdz: if kernel, you need to add the echo line I mentioned07:08
mdzinitially, only kernel messages07:08
mdzthen init script messages07:08
npmccallummdz: you get initscript messages after init switches to runlevel 2?07:09
mdzI'm retrying after setting kernel.printk; I'll let you know07:09
mdzok, that silenced the messages07:10
mdzhowever, the screen is still cleared to a black background07:10
npmccallumat what point?07:11
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mdzI have no point of reference07:11
mdzseveral seconds before gdm starts07:11
npmccallumthis is on an ubuntu system?07:11
mdzof course07:11
npmccallumthe only thing that can cause that is echoing a clear screen escape command to that terminal07:12
npmccallumyou get white first, then black?07:13
danielsmdz: this could be to do with vt switching being pure crap on your chipset maybe07:13
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mdznpmccallum: correct07:14
npmccallummdz: at what point does gdm load on your system? Sxx in runlevel 2?07:14
mdznpmccallum: ubuntu default07:14
mdzthis is a fresh install as of yesterday07:14
npmccallummdz: which is what?07:14
mdzsounder 7 + upgrades07:14
mdznpmccallum: rc2.d/S9907:15
npmccallummdz: what happens when you move gdm forward to S01 (that is where it runs on my system)?07:15
npmccallummdz: It doesn't use the logger or anything like that, so it doens't actually depend on anything in runlevel207:16
mdznpmccallum: no change07:17
npmccallummdz: still blanks to black?07:17
mdzthe change to black background still happens before gdm starts07:18
npmccallumcan I get a list of what you have in rcS.d?07:18
mdznpmccallum: it's a stock ubuntu desktop install07:18
mdzif I had to guess, I'd say it's probably when the console font is being set07:19
mdznpmccallum: you have the same laptop that I do; you don't see this?07:19
npmccallummdz: I don't07:19
npmccallumMy transitions nicely into gdm07:20
mdzI think there are just too many variables here for Warty07:20
mdzlet's get it into hoary as soon as it opens up, and do it right from there07:20
mdzthanks for all of the work you've put into it; I think it's going to be great, but we just need more time than we have available for Warty07:21
npmccallumno problem07:23
npmccallumthings have to get cut07:23
mdzhoary should give us plenty of time to sort out choosing modes and initializing the framebuffer, the initrd stuff, etc.07:24
npmccallummdz: I was actually looking at rhgb07:24
npmccallumjust to see what they've done07:24
mdzit's certainly  pretty07:25
npmccallumthey just assume that /usr is mounted07:25
npmccallumthen they just load standard X with -nolock07:26
npmccallumI was talking with daniels about that we could possibly embed kdrive and statically link gtk, which would give us a lot of freedom07:27
Kamionwould be fun with gtk security updates ...07:27
npmccallumwe can just check for /usr and don't run if its not mounted07:28
Kamionok, time to get rid of that ssh-askpass-gnome.desktop07:28
thommdz: is totally rad laptop support a feature goal?07:28
npmccallumwe don't have to embed or statically link anything in that case07:28
npmccallumhaving /usr on the root fs is a fairly safe requirement for desktop installs07:29
mdzthom: depends on your next question :-)07:29
Kamionor run in some degraded mode that doesn't include gtk07:29
Kamiondunno, I think you might be surprised at how much even some desktop users like to customize their partition layout07:29
KamionI know we don't default to that, but ...07:29
mdzcouldn't we use something like the tinyx server if we used an rhgb approach?07:29
thommdz: netapplet is utterly rad...07:29
npmccallummdz: yes, we could... does tinyx run on vesa?07:30
danielsmdz: uhm, tinyx is pre-kdrive07:30
danielskdrive is a renamed, and slightly forked, tinyx07:31
danielsby forcing several features out, you can make kdrive really small07:31
mdznpmccallum: it uses fbdev, at least the way I've built it in the past07:31
danielsso we could have a kdrive-tiny, or whatever07:31
mdzit doesn't need to be particularly tiny, as long as it doesn't require stuff like /usr07:31
npmccallumif we do use x/gtk we could have status icons pop up, and if an error occurs, click on the icon for text :)07:31
mdztinyx could be built to run basically standalone, with no config file, modules, etc.07:31
mdzwhich is what we would want07:31
npmccallummdz: why are we making all kinds of exceptions for non root /usr?  just make it a requirement...07:32
npmccallumif /usr isn't on the root fs, don't run07:32
mdznpmccallum: well, we also want it to be simple and start up very quickly07:33
npmccallummdz: agreed07:33
npmccallumthat would be one of my feature goals07:33
mdztinyx starts up in about 1 second on my Zaurus (200MHz ARM)07:33
thommdz: http://tech9.net/rml/log/200408240107:33
mdzthom: looks like a totally rad hoary feature :-)07:34
npmccallumdaniels: how does kdrive rate against a one second startup?07:34
thommdz: and indeed http://www.nat.org/2004/august/07:34
thommdz: i *knew* you were gonna say that07:35
mdzf-spot is one of those scary mono things, right?07:35
thomyep, ignoring f-spot, even though it is rad with a k07:36
Kamionis mono still using binfmt-support?07:36
KamionI'll be unhappy if not, since I implemented some quite complicated stuff just for them :)07:36
mjg59It doesn't have a lot of choice07:36
Kamionmaybe I should make that bit be shell rather than perl, though07:36
danielsnpmccallum: not quite sure, but it's pretty damn quick. most of it is, of course, in the mode switch :\07:36
mjg59Kamion: Yeah, mono-common depends on binfmt-support07:37
npmccallumdaniels: can we make kdrive use vesa without a mode switch (ie. if use the current mode)?07:37
npmccallumdaniels: that is what xdirectfb does and its fast07:37
=== Kamion insinuates himself further into dependency trees
mdzdaniels: well, if the framebuffer is already initialized, then there should be no mode switch07:38
danielsnpmccallum: maybe it already does that07:38
danielsi'll check it out when i get back07:38
danielsgotta run for a bit now07:38
Keybukthom: netapplet disappointed me somewhat07:44
thomKeybuk: how so?07:45
thomit's pretty frickin' awesome07:46
Keybukwell, it's just a not-applet for switching the active interface07:46
Keybukthe way it was hyped to me I was expecting HAL integration of local wireless networks and other fun things07:46
thomi'm guessing that's the end game07:47
thomhal doesn't do wireless at all right now iirc07:47
Keybukindeed not07:47
KeybukI've been kinda thinking about the non-wireless side of wifid as a result though07:48
Keybukwould be cool to use netapplet as a UI for wifid07:48
danielslast i checked, hal not doing wireless was NOTABUG07:50
danielsthere was a large discussion about it on hal@ a while back, during which it was concluded that most wireless stuff was out of scope, iirc07:50
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SteveAhow do I get flash plugins working in warty?07:51
mdzSteveA: apt-get install swf-player07:51
Keybukdon't see what's wrong with it, I kinda like the idea of seeing link strength of adjacent networks through hal07:52
mdzin firefox anyway07:52
Keybukmakes writing applets so much easier :p07:52
thomgar! i wish xscreensaver didn't suck quite so hard07:52
danielsKeybuk: heh07:52
danielsthom: still?07:52
KamionSteveA: (that's in universe)07:52
SteveAmdz: thanks.  I was searching in synaptic for names with "flash" in, not "swf"07:52
mjg59swf-player is barely a flash plugin...07:52
thomor, in this case, test that fortune exists before trying to run it, and if not, move on07:53
Kamionor we could install fortune ...07:53
Kamionxscreensaver is sitting permuting "No such file or directory" around the amd's screen at the moment07:53
thomKamion: well, that would work, but a bit of robustness is never a bad thing :-)07:53
danielsKeybuk: maybe this thread: http://freedesktop.org/pipermail/hal/2004-May/000170.html07:53
danielsthom: HEH07:54
mdzKamion: yes07:54
mdzin fact, let's take care of that now, because it keeps coming up and I keep forgetting about it07:54
mdzmy only issue with fortune is that it has a lot of shitty fortunes07:54
mdzshall we just clean it out and add it to desktop?07:55
Kamionubuntu-fortunes? :-)07:55
thomas long as there is NO mention of ssl certs :P07:55
Kamionwe can have fortune-mod without all the actual data, can't we?07:55
sladenKamion: is that the xscreensaver-fortunes when fortune isnt installed?07:55
Kamionsladen: yes07:55
Mithrandirthom: please, just a small ssl cert fortune?07:55
thomMithrandir: NO!07:55
Keybukdaniels: yeah, read that one07:55
thomyay, bumbps terminated with SIGSEGV07:56
Keybuksetting the essid through HAL is silly because should HAL then kill dhclient and restore the static IP settings needed for *that* essid?07:56
Keybukbesideswhich, iwlib sucks07:56
mdzKamion: why is it named 'fortune-mod' anyway?07:56
Kamionmdz: I've often wondered that07:56
Kamion"modified" from BSD?07:57
mdzKamion: come to look, fortunes-min is actually pretty reasonable07:57
mdzit's 'fortunes' that has all the crap07:57
Kamionwow, the jumping cow screensaver is stunning07:57
Kamionwe should so do a jumping warthog07:57
thombouncing cow is genius07:58
mdzfortune-mod added to desktop07:59
Keybuktalking of which ... hal doesn't work on warty08:00
mdzconsidering that's entirely untrue, perhaps you can be a bit more specific?08:01
Keybukstarts then exits08:01
Keybuktrying to figure out why atm08:01
npmccallumKeybuk: I have the same problem08:02
npmccallumKeybuk: though, I installed debian's kernel-image-2.6.8 and it seems to work, go figure08:02
Kamionseems to be working for me08:02
Kamionare we going to take 2.6.8?08:03
mdzworks for me08:03
mdzKamion: quite likely08:03
mdzconsidering 2.6.7 has security issues08:03
Keybukit's core dumping08:03
Kamionmdz: s'what I thought08:04
mdzhal logs a lot of garbage to syslog, though08:04
mdzAug 25 11:03:52 localhost hald: [W]  linux/osspec.c:700 handle_udev_node_created_found_device() : No HAL device corresponding to device file /dev/vcs2 08:04
Keybukmdz: what kernel are you running?08:04
dokowhy isn't not packaged yet?08:04
mdzKeybuk: stock Warty08:04
npmccallummdz: Is there a reason we haven't sync'd to 2.6.8 yet?08:05
mdznpmccallum: yes, we're expecting a custom package08:05
npmccallumooh :)08:05
Keybuksyndicate hal# hald --daemon=no08:07
Keybuk(process:5222): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: instance with invalid (NULL) class pointer08:07
Keybuk(process:5222): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: file gsignal.c: line 2121 (g_signal_emit_valist): assertion `G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed08:07
Keybuk  *more splurge*08:07
Keybukzsh: segmentation fault (core dumped)  hald --daemon=no08:07
=== Keybuk tries something
Keybuknpmccallum: what wifi card have you got in that thinkpad of yours?08:15
sladenKeybuk: atheros08:15
Keybukheh, snap08:15
Keybukif I tear down the card and modules hald starts08:16
Keybukas soon as I bring it back up, hald core dumps08:16
sladenwhereas /me has an orinoco :)08:16
npmccallumKeybuk: madwifi08:16
KeybukAug 25 19:16:44 syndicate hald: [E]  linux/net_class_device.c:138 mdio_read() : SIOCGMIIREG on ath0 failed: Cannot allocate memory08:16
npmccallumKeybuk: oh, I know this bug08:16
Keybukdidn't I see that in scrollback?08:16
npmccallumKeybuk: its fixed now upstream08:16
npmccallumKeybuk: I made a patch for it one time a while back08:17
npmccallumKeybuk: let me get the patch08:17
npmccallumKeybuk: http://bugs.breakmygentoo.net/attachment.cgi?id=327&action=view08:20
Keybukthat's somewhat cheating patchwise, isn't it? <g>08:20
Keybuk"uncomment the code that broke"08:20
Keybukuh, comment08:20
npmccallumKeybuk: no, the code was removed upstream a few days after my patch08:21
npmccallumKeybuk: they decided to roll back the wifi stuff08:22
Kamionpatches should generally remove code rather than comment it out, I feel - history is what revision control systems are for :)08:22
npmccallumfine, then find the line and remove it :)08:22
Kamionnot that I can talk considering the state of /var/lib/dpkg/info/passwd.config at the moment08:22
Keybukah, the debian code has if (!is_80211) around that08:23
Kamionheaving mass of comments08:23
Keybukif we remove that line, then normal network cards won't have link state in hal?08:25
Keybukhm, ok; hal won't build08:36
npmccallumKeybuk: we could always get the newest dbus and hal (which may not actually be a bad idea)08:40
Keybukyeah, the new stuff seems to work; but that's up to mdz08:42
mdzwhich actual bugs does it fix?08:43
npmccallummdz: most of the wifi stuff was taken out of the newer hals08:44
Keybukcan't start hald (and thus g-v-m) on machines with atheros cards08:44
npmccallummdz: the wifi stuff had lots of problems with lots of wifi cards (not just atheros)08:44
mdzbefore the conference, I was using an atheros card, and hal was starting OK08:45
npmccallummdz: we seem to be using an older version which still has the old wifi stuff in hal08:45
npmccallummdz: yeah, its an intermittant problem08:45
npmccallummdz: I was fine for a while too08:45
npmccallumif we do upgrade hal, I believe we have to upgrade dbus as well08:47
Keybukthom: didn't you remove "Suspend" from the battery applet?08:56
thomyeah, i've not uploaded it yet08:57
Keybukah, ok08:57
Keybukthought seb had fumbled a patch there for a second :p08:57
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eddseb does not fumble :)09:15
mdzthom: how does the mozilla situation look?09:16
Oskuroseb128: what's wrong with the suspend bit?09:17
seb128Oskuro: what ?09:17
Oskuro20:56 < Keybuk> thom: didn't you remove "Suspend" from the battery applet? 20:57 < thom> yeah, i've not uploaded it yet09:17
OskuroI wish gnome-terminal didn't select an arbitrary number of lines when I triple click09:18
eddit calls apm, iirc09:18
eddlast i knew, ubuntu doesn't have apm09:18
=== fabbione uploads X ubuntu8
fabbionelamont: can you give it a kick later tonight_?09:23
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thommdz: i got caught up in ddcprobe/xresprobe on amd64; just cooking dinner then will look09:47
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mdzOskuro: not only that, suspending with apm requires root and there was no provision for that10:13
mdzwe'll do something useful with it in the future when it can be done correctly10:13
mdzthom: I don't seem to have notes about your schedule; what hours are generally good for you as far as meetings and the like?10:17
thommdz: i'm usually awake and working 10am-6pm (currently GMT+1)10:18
mdzok, thanks10:18
thombut the latter tends to stretch later most of the time10:18
mdznpmccallum: how about you?  what are your normal waking/working hours?10:25
thommdz/Kamion: thoughts on tmpfs for /tmp ?10:28
mdzthom: I use it everywhere10:28
thommdz: should we do it by default?10:28
mdzpossibly; float the idea on the sounder list?10:29
thomyeah, will do. was just wondering if there was a previously discussed reason we don't that i'd forgotten10:29
mdzI don't think so; I'd been meaning to bring it up myself10:29
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