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npmccallummdz: working hours --- normally 9am'ish to 5pm'ish EST01:51
mdznpmccallum: thanks01:51
npmccallumI'm off for the rest of the night though, family01:51
npmccallumnight all!01:51
whiprushis there an upstream keyword?01:58
Mithrandirin the BTS? yes.02:06
whiprushMithrandir: ok, thanks.02:17
Mithrandiroh, sorry, I thought I was on the #debian-devel channel, for warty bts, I'm not sure.02:18
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rburtonmorning seb12810:49
rburtonhald just died again and i need to test sj10:49
seb128hey rburton 10:49
rburtonarse arse arse10:49
ik5pvxanyone else missing "tree" ?10:55
fabbioneik5pvx: from main?10:56
ik5pvxyes, from main10:56
fabbionea little bit10:56
ik5pvxI tend to use it a lot, but it may just be a bad habit of mine10:57
ik5pvxdoing my first upgrade from the archive (no universe for now) after a fresh install right now10:57
=== fabbione gets ready for the usual bunch of X bugs....
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fabbionemorning SteveA 10:59
SteveAI got an oops on boot with sounder 6 on my laptop10:59
SteveAanyone interested in the photos?10:59
SteveAthey're in ~limi on chinstrap11:01
SteveAsecond boot was okay11:01
=== fabbione takes a look
fabbioneSteveA: permission denied. please do a chmod 644 P* or something11:05
fabbioneotherwise i can't even read it :-)11:05
=== SteveA asks limi
SteveAsorry for the quality and splitting of the photos11:06
SteveAcan't do much with a phone's camera11:06
fabbioneSteveA: just stay around. i might need you to do some stuff for me11:10
fabbioneSteveA: do you have a full copy of that oops?11:11
fabbioneon a piece of paper or something?11:11
fabbioneotherwise the pics are useless :(11:12
SteveAsadly not, and I haven't looked at the pics yet.  They went straight from the camera to limi's laptop11:13
=== fabbione sighs
=== SteveA looks at the pics
=== fabbione prepares a mail to sounder to explain what to do on kernel oops
SteveAis there a way to get the oops info written to swap space or something like that?11:15
fabbioneSteveA: i know there is a way to get it dumped via network, but i am not sure how reliable it is and how it works exactly.11:16
ik5pvxdoes the stock kernel have the ability to use serial console ?11:16
fabbioneik5pvx: it's exactly like the Debian kernel11:17
ik5pvxI guess no serial console and no sysrq support then11:17
fabbionesysrq should be there11:18
ik5pvxI'll figure it out later then11:20
ik5pvxanother program that I miss: traceroute-nanog11:22
SteveAfabbione: I'm waiting approval to join the sounder list.  Can you send me a copy of your message?11:24
fabbioneSteveA: haven't written it yet.11:24
fabbioneSteveA: basically you copy the entire oops in a file11:24
fabbioneand pass it to ksymoops11:24
fabbioneit will generate some output that will tell more or less what is wrong, where11:25
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SteveAok.  I was hoping the photos would show enough to get the text of the oops...11:26
SteveAbut a couple of them are too blurred11:26
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fabbioneSteveA: apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.7 && cd /usr/src && tar jxvfp kernel-source-2.6.7.tar.bz2 && cd kernel-source-2.6.7/Documentation11:30
fabbioneaccording to your experience read: BUG-HUNTING and oops-tracing.txt11:31
fabbione(ps it's not a RTFM, but it will take me sometime to make it simpler to understand for everybody)11:31
fabbionein the meanwhile you know what to do if it happens again11:31
SteveAok, thanks11:31
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rburtonyay uptime of 13 minutes and hald is dead already11:38
seb128hum, I would say you have a problem with hald :/11:41
thomKeybuk: see Seth's post about NetworkManager on ddl?11:43
KeybukI'm quite amused by the sudden "oh fuck, we were working on one of those too" type posts flurrying to d-d-l atm11:45
Keybukproof, if it were needed, that "release early and often" is always better than "don't release until its finished"11:45
Gmanapparently a few redhat feathers were ruffled11:46
Gmanbecause they explicitly asked rml to look at it numerous times11:47
Keybukrh haven't released any source yet though?11:49
Keybukor is it in gnome cvs?11:49
Gmanyeah, it's in gnome cvs11:50
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Keybukheh, mjg59 is *fast* ... less than 30 minutes after it was announced he had Debian support in <g>11:54
mjg59NetManager is far more interesting, but netapplet is far cuter11:55
=== Gman doesn't like the fact that it's a nicon
Gmanthat's wrong.11:56
Gmanhowever cute it might look11:56
thommjg59: you have debian support for network manager? where? :-)11:57
Gman[which is pretty standard for ximianites] 11:57
mjg59thom: Should be in CVS11:57
mjg59I sent patches to Dan11:58
mjg59Weirdly, the only thing of interest that the netapplet applet does is pop up a menu11:59
mjg59It'd be trivial to just embed that in the netstatus app11:59
Gmandoes debian have hal/dbus?11:59
=== Gman is so out of date
mjg59Ought to be shipping with them next month, along with Mono12:00
Keybukthe only annoying thing about NetworkManager is it doesn't automatically associate with wireless networks :-/12:00
Gmanmono on debian?12:00
mjg59We can ship Mono, we can't ship Sun's Java12:00
=== Keybuk is still slightly irritated mono 1.0 missed the warty freeze :-/
Keybuksixth monthly release process *bites* :p  "not fast enough, you're in the next release"12:03
KeybukJeff can be evil12:04
Keybuk:o)  I have a signed copy of Edd's book to play with, and a crusty Mono! <g>12:05
seb128has somebody planned a openoffice upload soon ?12:08
seb128we need to update the desktop files, but uploading only for this ...12:08
thomi think you're gonna have to do it12:10
thomit's not like we're stretched for build resources :-)12:10
seb128he he12:11
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jdubKeybuk: mono 1.0? dude, that's going to be a barrel of laughs for totally non-release related reasons during hoary01:39
jdubevery time i say mono, eyebrows are raised01:39
Keybukoh aye, whose?01:40
jdubmark's, elmo's, etc.01:40
Keybukthere's certainly a prickly legal fence hear it01:41
jdubKeybuk: read bryan clark's entry about NetworkManager?01:42
Keybukyeah I did01:42
Keybuklooked kinda cute; won't compile on warty though *sulk*01:44
jduboh no01:44
jdubyou said kthxbye on your blog01:45
thomgack. thunderbird build-deps on csh01:45
thomoh the horror01:45
Keybukjdub: there was an accompanying IRC conversation to that one <g>01:45
jdubweird reading joey's entries with long-hair context, and having met him now without it01:46
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jdubman, catching up on mail this time is horrendous01:51
jdubalso, it's 9pm, and i'm waking up :|01:51
Keybukjet lag?01:51
jdubtimezone fuckage thus far01:51
jdubjetlag will come later ;)01:51
seb128hey jdub 01:52
jdubyo seb!01:52
Keybukwhat timezone fuckage?  isn't 9pm about your usual time for getting up? :p01:52
rburtonyo jdub!01:54
=== jdub spanks Keybuk
jdubhey rburton 01:55
jdubwhoa, paul cooper is testing on a superdooper new imac01:56
jdubrburton: so i saw your email with the mockup at the airport, but it hasn't appeared now that i've pulled my mail :|01:56
jdubmaybe i've flushed stuff without collecting it all... hrm.01:57
jdubanyway, could you resend?01:57
rburton(muppet) 02:06
fabbionehey rburton 02:07
rburtonhi fabbione02:07
fabbionedid you get my comment on the mouse speed?02:07
rburtoni'll try after lunch02:07
rburtonjdub: i've got a better one now too, give me a minute02:08
jdubhrm, got a copy of fedora handy?02:11
jdubor RH somethingorother?02:12
Keybukthere's one on little02:12
jdubno, a running copy :)02:12
Keybukoh, no02:12
jdubyou're not near ross anyway :)02:12
=== Gman has
rburtonjdub: we've got rh9 installed on most desktops. you want me to look at up2date, right?02:13
jdubi guess a sshot will do; Gman: could you take a shot of each page of the app install/remove thingy?02:13
jdubrburton: aha! no, the gui thingy02:13
=== Gman can only log in remotely
Gmani have redhat 8 screenies for all their system tools02:14
rburtonwhats it called?02:14
jdubrburton: it's more wizardy02:14
jdubdunno, innit in the menu?02:14
rburtonhm, maybe not02:14
rburtonthis isn't wizardy02:14
Gmanyeah it is02:15
Gmanwell, it's using GnomeDruid02:15
jdubthere's like one page of categories02:15
jdubthen a page of apps under it02:16
Gmani can send you a screenie of that02:16
jdubwith checkboxes02:16
rburtonyeah, i've got that02:16
rburtonEditors, Graphical Internet, etc with Details buttons02:16
rburtonwhich leads to a list of packages with check boxes02:16
=== Gman sends
jdubheh, i like it how jody still brings up random things that debian has done...02:22
jdubresolvconf in this case02:23
Gmanthat's cause he is forced to run suse by his evil company02:24
Gmanjust like me02:24
mjg59Gman: You're not being recruited, are you?02:25
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Gmanrecruited by novell? hah, no02:25
jdubrburton: so the first page is okayish02:25
jdubrburton: we can do a whole load better on the second page (icons, translated descriptions)02:25
jdubrburton: but that's the kind of thing i was thinking about02:26
rburtonis this the redhat-config-packages i found in rh9?02:26
=== rburton might need a screenie to confirm
jdubrburton: (a single big treeview would get very scary, very quickly)02:26
rburtonyeah, i guess so02:26
jdubGman: can i forward to rburton ?02:26
Gmanshit yeah02:26
Gmanjdub, hrm, maybe i should send you this big doc02:26
Gmani'll put it up on w.g.o02:27
Gmani think it might be of use to you guys02:27
=== Gman did a comparison of redhat to yast a long while ago
Gmanin terms of sys config tools02:31
jdubERROR: /etc/power/pmcs-pbbuttonsd doesn't exist.02:38
jdub(on trying to start pbbuttonsd manually)02:38
=== jdub lodges a bug
thomoh, right. so you're prepared to make your ibook work, but not make tmp dirs work right ;P02:39
jdubi haven't been using pbbuttonsd until now02:40
jdubthom: do you know what that file is?02:42
jdubahr, referred to in the conf file02:44
thomshould be in the pbbuttonsd package02:44
jdub(this is the version in unstable, btw, so that may be bollocksed)02:45
Keybukok, my computer is ganging up on me now02:45
jdubsounds kinky02:46
Keybuknot only did it decide I needed a Typing Break, but Rhythmbox decided the track I would listen to during it was the Macarena02:46
thomyou deserve it02:46
thomi *hate* graphical mail clients02:46
Mithrandirthom: s/graphical//02:46
Mithrandirthey all suck.02:46
fabbioneyou are still in time to write one from scratch ;)02:47
rburtonKeybuk:  and this is why i turn on skip break02:47
Mithrandirfabbione: I will, I think02:47
Keybukrburton: I had it on, but I was skipping breaks too much02:48
fabbioneMithrandir: we still have the BTS via IMAP access :-)02:48
Keybukso I decided to discipline myself and turn it off02:48
Mithrandirfabbione: right, I have forgotten about that.  I need to get mark to fund some of my crackier ideas.02:48
Mithrandireverybody know typing breaks are for the weak anyhow.02:49
thomMithrandir: chunderbird is my least favourite so far, especially now that mutt imap doesn't suck02:49
fabbionei would hate a popup that tells me to take a break02:49
mjg59I have working wrists, so don't need one02:50
Mithrandirthom: chunderbird? you mean thunderbird?  and you have applied the imap header caching patch and so on?02:50
mjg59Unlike all these people with WEAK, FEEBLE wrists02:50
thomMithrandir: i have the imap header caching patch in mutt, yeah02:50
mjg59Sounder 8 isn't going to be out by Sunday, is it?02:50
fabbione1 N33D N0 571NKY BR34K5 'C4U53 1 4M L33702:50
thomand yes, i mean thunderbird02:50
Mithrandirmjg59: I've been typing on keyboards for somewhere in the range of twenty years.. if I were to get RSI, I would have had it as a ten-year old.02:51
KeybukMithrandir: I thought the same, but in the few weeks I've been running with it on, I've noticed my wrists feel much happier02:52
Keybukespecially at the gym, they don't ache as much with the weights02:52
=== rburton too
=== Gman finds that not actually coding helps
MithrandirKeybuk: I don't go to the gym.. I climb a bit, though.  No wrist pain.02:53
=== Keybuk declares lunch; back in a bit
fabbioneisn't #305 fixed?02:54
thomaiiie, and chunderbird defaults to fucking HTML email by default03:20
jdubhaw haw03:21
jdubthom: the one in warty has pmcs-*03:22
thomyou should be running warty then, shouldn't you :p03:22
jdubcurrently on a separate partition on my ibook03:23
jdubresyncing /home atm03:23
thomright, that's enough of thunderbird03:24
jdubyou trying out GUI clients?03:24
thomno, testing that moz-* can get the security fixes without breakage03:25
jdubmoz is so much fear when it comes to security fixes over long periods of time03:25
jdub"API? Was ist das?"03:25
thomno no "API? Yes, we like them. have 15 more!"03:26
jdubwhy do we have smp kernels by default on ppc? :)03:27
Keybukok, cups is my new best friend03:29
Keybukit's gone from "I hate it and uninstall it" to "ooh, sexy"03:29
thomcups of tea? 03:29
Keybukprinter stuff03:29
thomyes yes03:30
dieman_on my way into work03:31
=== dieman_ is now known as diieman
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jdubyo mdz, bdale 04:12
thomhey dudes04:16
thomman, working with mozilla is made so much harder by the fact the horrible thing is 40MB of source04:25
=== fabbione is testing daily crack on a very old laptop
fabbionehey bdale04:26
jdubso i've made /dev/pmu world-writable (icky, only for now)04:35
jduband battstat is still nfi04:35
bdalemind-numbing executive teleconferences...04:36
thomjdub: yeah, you need the apm emulation loaded04:37
jduboh, bong04:38
jdubwhen i tried that earlier tonight, i was still running sid (with my own kernel)04:39
jdubthanks 8)04:39
=== bdale kicks off an rsync of sounder-test images since he thinks he'll have time to play some later today
fabbionethis laptop is so oooold04:45
=== bdale suggests a 'current' symlink the next time there's a livecd drop, so that rsync'ing the latest with both eyes closed is easier...
Kamionhm, there isn't one already?04:46
fabbionebdale: there is one04:46
Kamionno, there isn't04:46
fabbioneoh LIVEcd04:46
Kamionbdale: just added one now04:46
bdaleKamion: cool.  thanks.  ever so much easier to script the rsync this way...  ;-)04:47
Kamioncan't guarantee that the filename won't change, though ... livecds aren't really my bailiwick as such04:48
bdaleno worries04:49
bdaleI've got lots of disk space, and I don't really care how long the T1 is busy when I manually kick off a sync script like this... what I mostly care about is that when it's done, I've got the freshest bits on the local side of the pipe.04:50
Kamiondoes anyone here have a Macintosh system with an Airport card?04:50
Kamionjdub: could you run "cat /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/radio/name" for me, please?04:50
jdubwillow:~# "cat /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/radio/name"04:51
jdub-su: cat /proc/device-tree/pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/radio/name: No such file or directory04:51
Kamionwithout the double quotes04:51
jdubgood lord, how did i manage that?04:51
jduboutput is "radio"04:51
Kamionexcellent, thanks04:51
Kamionhm, does /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/bmac/name happen to exist too?04:52
=== jdub grumbles about airport drivers being bong
=== Kamion is reworking mac-io hardware detection somewhat
fabbioneKamion: we need to take a look to base-config when you have time04:53
fabbioneKamion: we need to add apt lines for CD install.04:54
fabbioneand perhaps ask if they want to enable "universe"04:54
fabbionebut only after the desktop installation04:54
fabbione(at least for how i see it)04:54
Kamionjdub: ah well, can't have everything04:54
jdubcat /proc/device-tree/pci\@f2000000/ has no bmac04:55
jdubs/cat //04:55
Kamionfabbione: agreed, will look at it once I've finished this04:55
Kamionjdub: fair enough, might be more of an oldworld thing04:55
jdubit has mac-io04:55
Kamionbmac is a specific Ethernet card, it's not entirely unexpected that you don't have it04:56
Kamionevery Mac should have mac-io as far as I know04:56
jdubyeah, i have airport and sungem04:56
jdubthe gmac driver also works04:56
jdubbut is not in fashion any more04:56
KamionI'd like to make discover walk it, or be hotpluggable, but for now I'm writing a cheesy discover-mac-io.sh in ddetect04:56
Kamiondoes d-i detect all of that?04:56
jdubfrom memory, yeah04:57
KamionI think sungem might show up on the PCI bus04:57
jdub0002:02:0f.0 Class ffff: Apple Computer Inc. UniNorth GMAC (Sun GEM) (rev ff)04:57
jdubonce i have shifted everything off my old sid partition, i'll start doing random installs on it04:58
fabbioneKamion: if we are not in any rush i can do it tomorrow. we can just reuse contrib for universe e non-free for restriceted, and change security according to the last Bof with mdz04:58
jdubbut can't do those atm ;)04:58
Kamionfabbione: sure04:59
fabbioneKamion: ok.. i take the task than.04:59
jdubKamion: are the latest dailies package sorted? (or should i wait before downloading, to avoid rsync hell)?04:59
fabbionealso because we need the proper infrastructure in place to add restriced and security04:59
thomKamion: any thoughts on what can be done about APIC? even to the extent of user education so they know what to try if they do get random freezes?04:59
Kamionjdub: should be05:00
Kamionjdub: rsync actually seems to deal with the sorting fairly reasonably05:00
Kamionthom: it's in the help screens; beyond that I honestly don't know05:00
jdubheh, i don't want to add universe just to install spamassassin ;)05:01
mdzKamion: ooh, we have a sorted daily now?05:06
thomKamion: it's not really documented that apic is what they want, though?05:07
Kamionmdz: for a while ...05:09
Kamionmdz: I was wondering if sorting the directory inodes with the files they contain would help too - they're all at the start at the moment05:09
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thommdz: -firefox building now05:17
fabbionethey stolen my car!05:18
thomdude, no way :(05:18
=== fabbione has to run to the police station
jdubthom: are we taking latest firefox, or patching existing version?05:18
jdubfabbione: !!!05:18
thomjdub: the latter05:18
jdubi'm not sure that's the right thing to do05:19
seb128jdub: gnomedb should be 1.1.x since it's a GNOME part, right ?05:19
jdubseb128: not a high priority part, no05:19
thomjdub: given the changes between unstable and warty, it's the only thing to do05:20
jdubthom, mdz: surely we should be pulling latest firefox in with gnome05:20
seb128ok, so we stay with 1.0.x ?05:20
jdubseb128: yeah, preferably (it's stable, 1.1 isn't)05:20
seb128gnomedb has some bad bugs, but not sure 1.1 is better ...05:20
mdzjdub: we should?05:20
mdzso far, firefox 0.9 has been a debacle in unstable05:20
jdubhrm, was working okay for me before05:21
mdzI've NOTWARTY'd a dozen or so RC bugs in it05:21
jdubwe have the firefox vs. epiphany choice05:21
jdubif we choose firefox, i'd prefer to sync to the latest versoins05:22
thomand it's just changed (again) to not use xvfb in the postinst05:22
thomso that's gonna take a long time to settle out, again05:22
jdub(0.8 is horrific)05:22
mdzjdub: new upstream versions? this late in the game?05:22
mdzI don't find 0.8 horrific at all05:22
jdubin terms of being a good gnome browser, 0.8 is not the right choice05:23
=== rburton runs
jdubso, if that's the case, perhaps we should stick with ephy for this release05:23
=== thom agrees with ross
jdubthis is not an ephy vs. firefox debate05:23
mdzI'd rather the better browser than the better gnome browser05:23
jdubit's a "what do we do now?" debate05:24
jdubmdz: those aren't very indistinguishable05:24
jdubfirefox 0.8 does not fit in well with the desktop05:24
jdubfirefox 1.0 will be much better in that regard (as you can see with 0.9)05:25
mdzfirefox 1.0 will not make Warty05:25
jdubso, the firefox switch was made in context of having the latest version we could in it05:26
jdubbut if we can't do that, we should not make the switch05:26
mdzthat assumption was not made clear at the time the decision was made05:27
mdzthat said, I'm open to new firefox05:27
mdzconsidering that we need the fixes for the latest batch of mozilla deluxe vulnerabilities05:28
thomjdub: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mozilla-firefox/mozilla-firefox_0.9.3-2.2/changelog05:28
thommdz: the two current in our bugzilla both appear to backport cleanly, patched ver is building now *shrug*05:29
mdzthom: are we not affected by the other 5 in debbugs?05:29
mdzI've lost track05:29
thomber, they've changed api anyway. that backport just blew up05:33
jduberk ;)05:34
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thommdz: it scares me, but looking at the amount of work it'll take to beat these patches into shape, and the fact that backports of the rest are gonna get harder and harder, we might have to go for it. i really don't want to tho05:35
=== justdave [~justdave@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
jdubthom: don't want to sync with firefox?05:36
thommdz: means we need to pull libcairo  into supported from universe05:37
thomjdub: yeah05:37
ik5pvxwho moderates the mailing list ?05:37
jdubik5pvx: moi05:38
mdznone of the mailing lists are moderated, are they?05:40
thomsounder is05:40
ik5pvxwell, they're restricted to subscribed, and I made a mistake that resulted in moderation05:40
mdzeven for members?05:40
jdubusplash for hoary -> yay!05:44
mdzKamion: what would be a safe time of day to automatically rsync the current daily iso?05:50
Mithrandirmdz: I don't think you can ever get a corrupted image by rsyncing at the wrong time.05:51
mdzMithrandir: probably not, but I could get yesterday's :-)05:52
mdzare the timestamps in rsync file listings local, remote or UTC?05:52
Mithrandirmdz: well, true. :)05:53
=== justdave [~justdave@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
mdzthom: mozilla is not known for having a sane approach to security06:02
mdzit's great that they file patches in bugzilla and everything06:02
mdzbut they're not particularly useful when you basically have to upgrade to the latest release to apply them anyway06:03
thomi'm beginning to realise this06:03
jdubhrm, any other changes we should make to pbbuttonsd defaults?06:04
jdubonAC_coversleep     = yes06:04
jdubTPMode              = notap06:04
Kamionmdz: the dailies are always finished by 8:45 UTC, and almost always finished by 7:30 UTC; I don't know what the two freak late ones were about06:07
Kamion9:00 UTC should be cast-iron06:07
jdubnot in supported!06:09
=== aes hopes the sounder list admins are on the ball.
sladenjdub: does make things easier...06:14
jdubaes: would've been faster if firefox hadn't crashed ;)06:16
aesbwahaha ;)06:16
aes"Message too big." Honestly.06:16
mdzKamion: thanks06:22
fabbionelet's hope they will never find the car again06:22
mdzfabbione: it is covered by your insurance?06:23
fabbionebecuase if they will find trashed is gonna be worst06:23
fabbionemdz: yes06:23
fabbionemdz: but it's really not the right time :/06:23
fabbionemdz: with a changing house upcoming in 3 weeks06:23
mdzfabbione: you will be moving into your house soon?06:23
fabbioneit's gonna suck like never06:23
fabbioneaes: thanks a lot for the report btw06:24
fabbioneaes: the problem seems to be a regexpr in xresprobe for the resolution. I already fixed in my trunk the synaptic stuff.06:25
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-139-049.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
mdzKamion: with the sorted CD, it seems to do quite well on source packages with multiple binaries, but it still seems to seek every time it has to read a new directory06:38
=== fabbione wanders off for a while to cool down a bit more
Kamionmdz: ok, sounds like I'll have to twiddle that a bit; I can probably sort directories with the .debs they contain relatively easily06:40
mdzreally?  that'd be excellent06:40
Kamion(I half-expected that to be honest, but wasn't sure)06:40
mdzI was afraid the directories were all at the beginning or something06:40
Kamionyes, they are at the moment, but don't have to be06:40
KamionI'd been hoping the kernel would be clever and cache them06:41
mdzI think it probably needs hdparm read-ahead magic for that06:41
Kamionthat makes sense06:42
=== crevette [~baptiste@] has joined #ubuntu
jdubwhole batch of new sounders invited :)06:49
=== HcE [~hc@66.80-202-212.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu
mdzso, opinions on vim?06:58
mdzwe should drop one of vim or vim-python06:58
=== HcE uses vim
mdzI don't see why there isn't an all-inclusive vim build07:00
mdzincluding -python, -perl, -tcl, and whatever other crack there is07:01
jdubsounds like vim-python would be the one for us, surely?07:02
jdub(not that i actually take advantage of that, i just use vim)07:02
mdzdepends on how you sift the crack07:02
mdzI don't think that vim-python really fits the python-extensibility idea07:02
mdzscripting the gimp is a much different thing than scripting vi07:03
mdzthat, and the packaging is a bit of a mess07:04
mdzvim-python depends: vim and then diverts /usr/bin/ivm07:04
Mithrandirmdz: vim-crack ?07:04
=== Mithrandir waves to HcE
=== HcE waves back :)
jdubugh, bong07:05
mdzhas anyone tracked down why cupsd doesn't start correctly in a fresh warty install?07:07
mdzit seems to be started OK, and then shut down for some reason07:08
mdzI [26/Aug/2004:09:54:28 -0700]  Full reload complete.07:08
mdzI [26/Aug/2004:09:57:00 -0700]  Scheduler shutting down normally.07:08
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lucas_hi all07:09
crevettehi btw07:09
=== lucas_ [~lucas@cab-192023.calixo.net] has joined #ubuntu
lucas_randomly typing on the keyboard definitely gives random results07:10
mdzjdub: are you home now?07:12
aesfabbione: rock :) thanks07:21
Keybukmdz: #268154, yeah, reassign that bug one more time! <g>07:39
jdubso i need to change a binary file in an upload :)07:43
jdubis there actually a sane way to do that?07:43
Keybukjdub: explain ?07:44
jdubi have new png files for the wireless applet07:44
Keybukoh, man07:45
justdaveoh, I found that screen dimming I was complaining about.  pbbuttonsd controls that, too.07:45
justdaveIt apparently only does it when you're running on battery power, by default.07:46
jdubit dims automagically or something?07:46
Keybukjdub: I guess you could ship the new png in the debian/ directory and copy them over in your rules07:46
Keybukthough I have a hunch dpkg-source won't let you do that either07:47
jdubKeybuk: but debian/ is also part of diff.gz...07:47
=== jdub had considered it ;)
jduba horrible way to do it would be uuencoding the images and decoding them before building :)07:48
KeybukXPM! :o)07:48
jdubjustdave: do you have a recommended change to the defaults?07:48
mdzKeybuk: for some reason, deity@ doesn't seem to get notification when a bug is reassigned07:48
justdavejdub: yeah, it dims automatically if you're idle for 60 seconds.07:48
jdubjustdave: does that suck?07:48
justdaveI think that's a fine idea when you're on battery07:49
justdavebut the default timeout probably should be a little longer.07:49
Keybukmdz: it so did :p07:49
justdave(say 5 minutes instead of 1)07:49
mdzKeybuk: well, it wasn't in my mailbox, and the bug report was07:49
jdubanyone else have thoughts on pbbuttonsd dimming?07:49
mdzmaybe it got mis-sorted07:49
justdaveI actually wouldn't care what the default was if there was an obvious way to change the setting from the GUI07:50
justdaveand 1 minute will save more battery than 5 minutes :)07:50
jdubmm, see, it's kinda something that xscreensaver should do07:51
jdubbut it doesn't do dimming as yet07:51
justdavexscreensaver has suspend and poweroff functions for energystar-compliant monitors...07:52
justdaveseems like "dim" would be equivalent to suspend when you're talking about an LCD panel.07:52
jdubnaw, dim is a state before that07:53
jdubwhich is not covered by xscreensaver07:53
Kamionjdub: uuencode is pretty much the standard way to do that, actually07:53
mdzs/standard/& awful/07:53
jdubKamion: that's unfortunate. :|07:53
jdubKeybuk: you can fix this for the common people, dude! multiple tarballs in source!07:54
jdubi'm tempted to disable dimming entirely, given that you can't futz with it from the ui07:54
Keybukjdub: NOTWARTY, HTH, HAND, KTHXBYE <g>07:54
Kamion(yes, it sucks, but)07:54
jdubKamion: in which case, what's our favourite decoder?07:54
jdubsee, we also have:07:55
jdubonBattery_Tsleep    = 3000  ; time in 1/10s07:55
jdubonBattery_Tdim      = 600   ; time in 1/10s07:55
jdubi'm tempted to turn both of those off07:56
Keybukjdub: everyone else had their macs stolen, so can't really comment07:56
Kamionjdub: uudecode's in sharutils isn't it?07:57
KamionISTR build-depending on that in various places07:57
jdubman, pbbuttonsd has net and cpu load monitoring07:58
jdubso it doesn't sleep07:58
jdubwhen you're doing stuff07:58
jdubthat's kinda freaky07:58
jdubokay, i'm turning all mysterious sleeping and dimming off07:59
=== justdave_ [~justdave@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
justdavehmm, that was fun (not)08:10
justdaveit went to sleep on me08:10
justdavewhen I woke it up, it hung08:10
HcEfg <process>?08:10
justdavesome message about could not determine if the cpufreq matched what the core thought it was08:10
HcEnever had it here08:11
MithrandirHcE: you're not using a ibook. :P08:11
HcEclose your eyes and hope it goes away ;)08:11
justdaveok, time to eat.08:14
KeybukI get a message like that on the HP08:24
Keybukusually means that the CPU wasn't at full speed when it switched back to the performance governor08:24
=== jdub is folding in the netapplet icons into the current wireless applet
jdubthey're a million times better than the current ones08:28
mdzthom: ping?08:41
mdzlamont: ping?09:21
Keybukooh!  Crowded Bob!  Tune!   ,09:27
Keybuk                         _o/09:27
lamontoops.  bug to debian without a Package: header... Guess I'll have to reassing that shortly.09:38
jduboof, yeah, that pbbuttonsd fading is really annoying09:40
thommdz: yo?10:22
mdzthom: damn if I remember...mozilla?10:23
thommdz: 0.9 builds at least under warty10:24
thomi just got back from making sure daniels left the country, so i'll test now10:24
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Keybukheh, he didn't stay for Fabric?10:29
thomhe needs to buy a laptop so he's kinda broke10:32
thomhe's looking forward to being rounded up for the good of humanity10:32
Keybukoh, what did he do to his?10:37
Keybukrounded up?10:37
thomreference to you/ross on X40s10:40
thomhis powersupply has crashed and burnt, literally10:40
Keybukthe only thing I have against the X40 really is the lack of touchpad10:46
Keybukand that they're evil and out to take over the world, obviously10:46
thomi guess some obstreperous people may consider that a drawback10:48
Mithrandirthe taking over the world thing or the touchpad thing?10:50
MithrandirI'm very happy it doesn't have touchpad.10:50
thomthe former10:51
thomthe latter is definitely a good thing10:51
MithrandirI find taking over the world generally a good thing.10:51
mdzlamont: ?10:55
mdzdamn, you answered back when I remembered what I wanted, but I didn't see it10:55
lamontlibsasl2 - it wasn't clear what the maintainer had done, I'll dig into it more now.10:55
mdzlamont: what's the latest on tetex?10:55
=== lamont checks
mdzlamont: whatever I was asking about before is probably in your bugzilla list, too, if that wasn't it10:56
mdzI've just made a pass over all warty RC bugs10:56
lamontmdz: probably - need to make yet another pass with out the "not now" sighing noises, I guess.10:57
=== lamont just asked the nice state official "can I fax that to you, or do you need an original photocopy?"
=== aes [~andrew@dsl-212-23-23-154.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont pokes elmo about tetex-*(
thommdz: so firefox 0.9.3 builds and runs just fine, with the addition of libcairo1 and dependents to supported11:04
lamontmdz: current tetex-status is: sync pending, then I need to do an upload, and then we should be able to close the lot of them.11:04
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu
=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/ un: sounders, pw: oink | Sounder CD 7 released
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Tue Aug 24 16:57:26 2004
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jdubhrm aptitude install "~tdesktop" doesn't take Provides into account09:37
jdubit really wants to install packages that are already provided for ;)09:37
Mithrandirit looks at Task headers09:37
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fabbionehey guys10:59
fabbioneanybody is a "synaptic mouse driver" expert?10:59
Mithrandirgnome-cups-icon is using 617M virt mem,  410 RSS..11:26
rburtonyay someone who can replicate the bug!11:26
rburtonif you can find the cause (my money is on a cups leak) then please tell me/cups maintainers11:26
=== rburton is gnome-cups-manager maintainer
rburtonMithrandir: a valgrind run of g-c-i would be a good start. the only valgrind run i've seen put the leak in "???" which doesn't really help11:27
MithrandirI wondered why my P4 2.4GHz was _dog_ slow11:28
Mithrandirseems like g-c-i went away now, as it couldn't contact the cups server.11:29
rburtonif it can't find the cups server it quits after like 10 seconds11:30
rburtonthe leak should only occur if you have a running cupsd11:30
Mithrandirrebooting to see if I can reproduce it11:30
Mithrandirit takes a while to grow to those proportions, it seems, though11:32
rburtonyes, but its a slow and gradual leak11:32
rburtonyou should be able to notice it straight away (so people tell me)11:32
Mithrandirhow does it handle the case of cupsd running, g-c-i starting and being happy, cupsd goes away?11:32
rburtonhm, not sure11:33
Mithrandirabout 12k/5 secs11:35
rburtoncould you valgrind it?11:36
=== mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu
rburtonyou'll need to increase the call depth and do --alignment 811:36
rburtonMithrandir: and of course remove it from the session first otherwise you won't be able to restart it in valgrind11:36
Mithrandirjust let it run for a little while, then kill it?11:39
rburtonooh, hang on11:40
rburtonif its the same bug is saw, you'll need to --show-reachable11:40
rburtonas something still has a reference11:40
Mithrandirmy valgrind doesn't seem to have any --show-reachable11:41
Mithrandir** (gnome-cups-icon:5201): WARNING **: Extremely strange, strange object directories (0)registered with the activation context11:42
rburton--alignment=8 --num-callers=10 --leak-check=yes --show-reachable=yes should do the trick11:42
Mithrandirhow much memory do you want it to leak?11:43
rburtona meg should be enough to make it very noticable in the valgrind output11:43
rburtoni'm betting its a cups thing11:43
rburtonas g-c-m pokes cups for a status every few seconds11:44
=== thom_ [~thom@dev.bitch-whore.com] has joined #ubuntu
seb128hey crevette ;)11:45
crevettehey hey11:46
Mithrandir==5281== 270320 bytes in 13770 blocks are still reachable in loss record 147 of 14711:48
Mithrandir==5281==    at 0x3C01E31B: malloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:105)11:48
Mithrandir==5281==    by 0x3C9FD932: strdup (in /lib/tls/libc-2.3.2.so)11:48
Mithrandir==5281==    by 0x39353837: ???11:48
=== Mithrandir turns off TLS and tries again
Mithrandirfwiw, it looks like a gnomeui memory leak11:53
rburtonMithrandir: can you run it for longer, i think its the cupsLangGet (record 145)11:54
rburton147 looks like a one-time call11:54
crevettedid somebody experienced a problem with ubuntu-artwork package during installation ?11:55
rburton(this is great, thanks)11:55
Mithrandirrburton: sure.. I'll let it run for ten minutes?11:55
crevetteI installed ubuntu a first time without pb 1 jour ago11:55
Mithrandirrburton: (or I could run it for a day, if you so prefer..)11:55
rburtonMithrandir: a few minutes will do11:56
rburtonMithrandir: let it grow a few meg so the leak is clear11:56
crevetteand now it failed on this package11:56
rburtonMithrandir: i think i've found the leak11:57
rburtoncupsLangDefault() returns a pointer, but it is never free'd11:57
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
Mithrandirrburton: throw a package at me and I'll give it a shot.11:58
seb128crevette has 2 questions, somebody with some ideas here perhaps ?12:02
Mithrandircrevette: what error do you get?12:03
seb1281- the installation fail on ubuntu-artwork apparently, is there any log at this stade ?12:03
crevetteno root password asked 12:03
=== SteveA [~steve@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionecrevette: no root password is OK12:03
fabbionecrevette: root account is locked12:03
fabbioneand you can use sudo12:03
Mithrandirfabbione: actually, it's not ok, as gksu will then fail12:03
fabbioneit was for ik5pvx 12:04
rburtonMithrandir: email address?12:04
fabbionecrevette: did you use a sounder cd or a daily cd?12:04
Mithrandirrburton: please, an URL?12:04
ik5pvxIt's ok so long as I understand that all graphical apps that call gksu will call sudo instead, and I understood it's a known problem being worked on. 12:04
=== fabbione -> apotek
SteveAUI gripe:  I have gossip in my "desktop session".  I booted up and logged in today, and got a dialog saying "Question: Please enter your password".  There was no indication of which password is required, or that gossip is the application that produced the dialog.  Gossip itself is not visible, except as a small icon in the gnome bar at the top of the screen. 12:05
crevetteubuntu-artwork didn't failed at my first install 1 hour ago 12:05
rburtonMithrandir: www.burtonini.com/temp/12:05
SteveAfabbione: I had the same oops on boot again.  Didn't get time to take notes, but at least it seems like a regular thing ;-)  I'll take notes next time.12:05
crevettefabbione: Do must I use the daily one ?12:06
Mithrandirrburton: that's a downgrade, though12:06
ik5pvx[severely offtopic]  if anyone knows how to tell exim3 and/or gnus to use a particular email address as "from" please contact me privately12:06
rburtonoh arse12:06
Mithrandirik5pvx: you can try to grok my gnus setup at http://raw.no/dotfiles/gnus12:06
=== rburton points at seb128 upgrading ububtu packages without telling him
=== ik5pvx groks
rburtonMithrandir: give me another 512:07
ik5pvxwhatever that means :)12:07
Mithrandirik5pvx: grok =~ understand12:07
seb128rburton: which package ?12:07
Mithrandirseb128: libgnomecups12:08
rburtonseb128: i finally find someone who can replicate and help debug the leak, and the ubuntu packages are newer than sid :)12:08
seb1280.1.10-0ubuntu1 in ubuntu12:08
seb1280.1.10-1 in unstable12:08
seb128let me disagree :)12:08
rburton0.1.11-0ubuntu1 in ubuntu12:09
seb128damn, I've updated in oxford :p12:09
Mithrandirrburton: seems to leak still12:09
crevetteI will restart my install12:09
seb128crevette: sorry I've not idea of the problem, and people seems to be more interested by the gnome-cups leak here :)12:10
Mithrandirthough, a fair bit slower.12:10
rburtonMithrandir: newer debs, try again.12:10
rburtonand another valgrind log would be cool12:10
crevetteseb128: do I must to use the daily cd instaed ?12:10
crevetteseb128: no pb12:11
seb128crevette: no, sounder 7 should be fine ...12:11
Mithrandirrburton: ok, running now12:11
crevetteseb128: and about the installer pb we discussed ? did I must report the pb to debian or to bugs.nny.12:11
Mithrandirrburton: leaks a bit again.12:12
seb128mention it in the install report you'll do :)12:12
crevetteseb128: I have to make an install report ?12:12
rburtonMithrandir: but slower? thats a good start :)12:12
crevettesee U12:12
seb128crevette: better to do if possible yes12:12
crevetteseb128: oky12:13
Mithrandirrburton: no, with 1.9-2 it was slower, now it seems about the same speed again12:13
rburtonhm, interesting12:13
Mithrandirrburton: I'll just let it run for a bit12:13
rburtonso 0.1.11 is worse12:13
Mithrandirseems like it12:13
=== ik5pvx is lost in Lisp with Norwegian comments :)
seb128rburton: why do you "rm -fr docs/reference/html" and --enable-gtk-doc in loudmouth instead of using the html doc ?12:19
rburtonseb128: they used to be out of date12:20
rburtonmaybe they are better now12:20
=== justdave [~dave@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
Mithrandirrburton: hmm.. might have stabilized itself now.12:24
Mithrandirrburton: I'll let it run in valgrind for a while and see.12:25
rburtonMithrandir: ah, great12:25
Mithrandiris it possible to get tla to shut up?12:32
MithrandirI want to run tla update from a cron script, but it's very chatty.12:33
fabbionecrevette: no there is no need to use daily, until you like to see stuff breaking down12:43
fabbioneSteveA: ok.. but please try to do it.12:44
Mithrandirrburton: ok, I'm happy.  It seems to have stopped leaking.12:44
Mithrandirrburton: do you want the valgrind log for the last 30 minute run?12:44
rburtonMithrandir: if it has stopped leaking, don't bother12:45
=== rburton cheers
rburtonMithrandir: you are a hero12:45
rburtonthe first person who can replicate the bug *and* has enough clue to help debug it :)12:46
Mithrandirheh. :)12:46
seb128rburton: where was the problem ?12:46
Mithrandirrburton: thanks a lot for fixing it.12:46
rburtonseb128: cupsLangDefault() returns a pointer which wasn't freed12:47
ik5pvxok, let's see if the mailing list likes me now :)12:47
rburtonassuming it is really fixed and not just hiding12:47
seb128rburton: and that makes a such leak ?12:49
rburtonseb128: many bytes every 5 seconds12:50
seb128why it doesn't leak here ?12:51
rburtonno idea12:51
Mithrandirseb128: what language are you running with?12:52
Mithrandiris cups translated into that?12:53
MithrandirI'm running with Norwegian, which cups isn't translated into12:54
seb128oh, no gnome-cups-manager but cups12:54
seb128good question :)12:54
fabbionerburton: did you have any time to test the mouse acceleration stuff?12:55
rburtonfabbione: not yet. i'll do it in a minute12:55
MithrandirI would guess it checks if lang == null inside the five-second-loop and since it gets set on the first iteration with french, it works.12:55
seb128yes, probably12:55
Mithrandir(I haven't looked at the code, so I might be totally wrong)12:56
crevetteI'ma back from my third install12:56
Kamionjdub: which packages do you think aptitude -y install ~tdesktop shouldn't have installed? it might be a germinate bug.12:57
fabbioneKamion: please do not release any Sounder until X ubuntu9 is around12:59
fabbionethere is a bug in 2 preinst scripts that will make everything fail12:59
ik5pvxis it normal that when I mount a cdrom or an usb disk, a lot of windows open ? like one for each partition mounted12:59
Mithrandirik5pvx: that's the default, yes.01:00
Mithrandirik5pvx: go to computer -> desktop prefs -> removable storage to change it01:01
ik5pvxshouldn't it open just the window for the device/partition I've mounted ?01:01
ik5pvx(of course, i01:01
ik5pvx(of course, it's not doing it again now that I'm trying to describe this... darn)01:01
Mithrandiroh, yes, it should only do it for the new partitions01:02
ik5pvxok, I'll try to reproduce it again and report back01:02
=== thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu
SteveAfabbione: did you send the email with brief instructions on what to do?01:04
MithrandirSteveA: fabbione had a rm -r /home last night, so I wouldn't count on it.01:05
fabbioneSteveA: no. I have lost the last 3 months of emails yesterday01:05
Kamionfabbione: there's no release planned until Monday week anyway01:09
rburtonseb128: could you update ubuntu's librsvg? i believe there is a new upstream01:20
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-4-63.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
seb128rburton: sure01:49
seb128rburton: [   ]  LATEST-IS-2.7.2       01:53
rburtoni thought there was a 2.7.9x release01:54
seb128no on ftp.gnome.org at least01:56
rburtonyeah, so i see01:57
rburtonmr. upstream must have been talking about cvs then01:57
seb128you're looking for a bug fix ?01:57
rburtonyeah. embeddng pngs are bust with 2.7.201:59
=== wally [~wally@pD954A187.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu
npmccallumdaniels: you home yet?02:52
=== __keybuk [scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
__keybukit never fails03:01
__keybukmake dinner, the Engineer turns up03:01
=== aes [~andrew@dsl-212-23-23-154.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
seb128hello mdz 03:44
jdubKamion: fam and its libs (which should indeed be installed with the desktop), but i have other packages providing those03:44
Kamionah, right. aptitude just installs the packages with the relevant Task: line03:46
Kamionjdub: yow - I echo elmo's objections to going to sleep when the lid is closed on AC03:51
Kamionconsidering that my laptop crashes if you try to put it to sleep :-P03:51
fabbionehey mdz03:52
jdubKamion: eek03:52
Kamiondon't see why you'd want to sleep on AC anyway?03:53
jdubconsistent "close the lid == sleep"03:53
Kamionfoolish consistency, I think03:53
Kamionclose the lid + on battery == sleep would make more sense03:53
jdubbut why doesn't close+ac also make sense?03:54
jdubrationalise the inconsistency :)03:54
Kamionbecause there's no point going to sleep when you're plugged in?03:54
ik5pvxclose+acl+store_pc_away_while_it's_compiling makes sense ?03:54
KamionI often close the lid to get the panel out of my way while I'm doing something else03:55
jdubik5pvx: that's something you can configure for, if you have that special need03:55
ik5pvxkamion's point of getting the panel out of way is a good point too03:55
jdubthese are things you can configure for03:56
jdubwould be nice if we had a clicky-clicky thing for it03:56
jdubbut the common case is "close means i'm not using it"03:56
KamionI don't think it's a particularly special need ...03:56
Kamionshrug, sounds like I'll just have to ignore the warty defaults on all my systems; I don't think I have a single laptop where sleep actually works :(03:57
jdubit's not a special need if you perceive the computer differently to that ;)03:57
Kamionit just seems like a waste of time to even bother putting the thing to sleep under those circumstances03:58
jdubso, outside of usability questions -> do the majority of ppc machines not sleep correctly?03:58
Kamionanything with a modern Radeon card won't03:58
Kamion>=9600 I think03:58
Kamionnot sure about the NVidia ones03:58
Kamion> Regarding sleep support, there's always hope as far as ATI chips are04:00
Kamion> concerned as ATI has always been helpful with that in the past, though04:00
Kamion> it takes time. For nVidia chips, there is no hope.04:00
Kamionso currently AFAIK no aluminium powerbook can sleep04:00
Kamionsuspend-to-disk stands a better chance, dunno if it's been implemented in 2.6 yet though04:01
jdubexternal patches, still, i believe04:01
whiprushjdub: I had a strong suspicion that that exchange button was upstream.04:29
fabbioneKamion: i think Sounder 8 will have to wait tuesday04:29
fabbioneKamion: i found a few interesting extra bugs in X04:30
fabbionenot worth to ship X in that condition04:30
Kamionfabbione: not this coming Monday anyway, the Monday after that04:30
Kamionin any case Monday's a public holiday in the UK, so I'll be away04:30
jdubwhiprush: it's annoying04:31
jdubi'd like exchange stuff to be there by default04:31
jdubbut that button is a bit of a blight04:31
=== ploum [~ploum@236-241.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
jdubyo ploum 04:32
ploumI just send my review04:32
jdubwelcome :)04:32
ploumThanks ;-)04:32
=== jdub is just about to start reading
jdubit's an epic! :)04:32
ploumWell, I read it now and there's so much mispelling :-(04:32
ploumAnd there seems to be a bug in Abi with color04:32
fabbioneKamion: ok04:33
fabbioneploum: thanks for the report but in abiwork you don't make it easy for me to reply :(04:33
fabbioneploum: are you subscribed to the mailing list?04:33
ploumfabbione, it's was a bit long for a mail04:33
Kamionyow, ditto04:33
Kamiontext-only *far* preferable04:34
ploumfabbione, yes. Do you want that I send the text as a mail04:34
ploumI will do it !04:34
ploumAbiword was for colors and images..04:34
fabbioneploum: i would like you to provide me with the info about X as i wrote in a previous email04:34
fabbioneploum: let me give you a link'04:34
Kamionploum: I take it you didn't use the "erase entire disk" option?04:35
fabbioneploum: you will need to authenticate to read the archive04:35
fabbioneploum: Subject: Notes on how to debug X autodetection.04:36
Kamionploum: the post-reboot progress bar thing's known but will take some time to fix because debconf doesn't yet have progress bar support.04:36
Kamion(it's on my list ...)04:38
ploumKamion, I know that somes things are difficult or already know. But it's my full first impression04:38
Kamionsure, just ticking things off. :-)04:38
=== ploum think that Canonical is the Dream Team
=== Kamion goes off to test a main-menu change
ploumfabbione, I'm not under Warty here (it's my good old Debian). I will try it today ...04:40
seb128ploum: I've resend your review in plain text to the list04:43
fabbioneploum: thanks. that would give me more info on why it didn't detect the panel correctly04:43
seb128more easy to reply04:43
fabbionefrom the X release most of the bugs should go away..04:44
fabbionei found a few interesting problems related to resolution and frequency detection04:44
fabbionespecially when you pass these data to the frontends04:44
ploumseb128, ARGH !04:45
seb128ploum: what ?04:45
ploumI did it in the same time04:45
seb128not a big deal04:46
ploumwith somes minor corrections04:46
seb128I did it about 10 min ago in fact04:46
seb128I can't reply to the comment with the abiword format04:46
ploumI understand..04:46
seb128and I've a lot of notes to add for the desktop part04:46
ploumI was for the color04:46
seb128it's fine, having both is better04:46
seb128so we have the color and we can reply :)04:47
ploumI just hope that it will be useful04:47
ploumI hope to see X.org in Ubuntu some day :-)04:48
crevetteI saw that there is some neb like me04:49
crevettehello ploum 04:49
ploumhello crevette 04:49
=== stub [~zen@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
crevetteYou were faster than me I wanted to send a report on the Gnome part but you did it and there is some part I agree04:50
ploumyes.. I'm really noob here. And I make mistakes ..04:50
crevetteploum: for the warning message to wide for evo blame seb128 04:51
ploumI reboot in Warty to test :-)04:54
jdubploum's review is amusing ;)05:00
seb128yeah :)05:01
seb128he likes doing this sort of stuff05:01
seb128he did several reviews on GNOME, spatial mode, how to use them, etc05:01
=== ploum [~ploum@236-241.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
ploumGdm est toujours en allemand et en 1152x864 :-( 05:09
ploumEt X a de nouveau plant au dmarrage05:09
ploumOups.. sorry05:10
ploumI forgot to speak english05:10
ploumI'm tired05:10
ploumI just booted into warty :05:10
ploum1) X has crashed at first start05:10
ploum2) GDM is still in deutch and 1152x86405:10
bdalelamont: http://people.debian.org/~joey/3.0r3/ has a couple packages in "need more info" status because they never built on hppa and/or ia64 ... got time to take a peek?05:12
seb128ploum: X has crashed ? which error ?05:13
seb128ploum: BTW I've replied to your mail05:14
ploumseb128, thx you for response05:15
seb128np, thanks for the review05:16
=== ploum is proud ! He had a mail from Jeff Waugh calling him "Lionel".. Wow..
ploumseb128, the X crash was exactly the same as in my review : black/white lines followed by coloured blocks05:16
ploumalso, I don't understand why but Warty was not able to find a DNS server this time05:19
Kamionploum: were you DHCPing?05:19
ploumBut it could be an issue with the DHCP server05:19
ploumI use a Wifi modem as a DHCP server05:19
ploumAnd I'm not sure it works great05:19
ploumIt sends only itself as DNS server05:20
ploumSo all computer here have static DNS configuration05:20
=== hypatia [~mary@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu
ploumStrangely, it worked two days ago05:20
dafhypatia: you are Mary, I take it :)05:20
ploumfabbione, so I just add deb http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/no-name-yet warty main in my source.list and do your test ?05:21
hypatiadaf: Yes.05:21
dafhypatia: welcome!05:21
dafhow is New York?05:21
hypatiatechnically I do not belong here yet as I have no computer to install warty on...05:21
hypatiadaf: We're still in Boston (Cambridge).05:21
hypatiaBut it's nice.05:21
hypatiaNew York on Monday.05:22
dafhypatia: ah, cool05:22
=== ploum_ [~ploum@236-241.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
dafhypatia: how's Andrew faring?05:22
hypatiaOk I think.05:22
=== Kamion grins at seeing Vivek Dasmohapatra on the sounders list
hypatiaHe's just woken up (it's 11:30 here but only 8:30 west coast time you see).05:22
KamionI didn't expect my last-but-one job to be a potential customer :)05:23
seb128jdub: I read the list, no need to send me the mails too :)05:23
dafKamion: heh :)05:23
jdubseb128: :P05:23
=== ploum_ is now known as ploum
=== ploum is doing apt-get dist-upgrade for fabbione
mdzKamion: fascinating...in #268421 the submitter pasted the entire status file entry as the debbugs pseudo-header05:27
ploumow.. I see firefox 9.3 coming ;)05:27
dafmdz: fun05:28
Kamionmdz: cool05:28
Kamionin a scary sort of way05:28
Kamionthe semantics are different, so debbugs will have stopped parsing after Conffiles:05:29
Kamion(no continuation lines)05:29
=== thom hugs hypatia hello
jdubFetched 38.5MB in 4m43s (136kB/s)05:34
=== ploum [~ploum@236-241.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
ploumfabbione, It's done05:36
ploumno question05:36
ploumThe config is the same as before05:36
ploumX works (I will try to see if it works the first time after a reboot)05:37
ploumGDM is still in Deutch and 1152x864, like new users if I add them05:37
wallyploum, say "deutsch" :-)05:38
wallyhi ploum, by the way ;-)05:38
ploumwally, thx :-)05:38
ploumhi wally05:38
crevetteploum: I have the same problem than you05:38
ploumseb128, I've made a new user with my up-to-date Warty : there's no icon in the panel05:38
wallyhmmm, should i have noticed gdm being in german?05:39
wallyit's normally in german, on my box :-)05:39
ploumwally, did you use a qwertz keyboard ?05:39
seb128ploum: rm -rf /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/apps/panel/ and "sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/gnome-panel-data.postinst configure" and try again05:40
wallyploum, yes, i did05:40
ploumseb128, by the way, the new "Computer" menu is great05:41
seb128thanks :)05:41
ploumyou must submit it upstream05:41
wallyi upgraded from a sid/experimental and dont have the nice new-sorted menu entries, my brother got, when he upgraded from sid05:41
seb128experimental has probably more recent versions05:42
wallyoh... alright05:42
seb128we start to -0ubuntu1 -0ubuntu2 ...05:42
lamontbdale: curious... all of the packages marked 'MISSING hppa' I've looked at are either (1) built successfully long ago, or (2) not tried05:43
=== lamont goes to pester Joey
seb128then when debian package -1 that's more recent05:43
wallythanks seb128, 05:43
wallyi'll sort it out05:43
ploumseb128, WHAT ? No Xnest in Warty ???05:43
jdubploum: it's in supported, but not installed with the desktop by default05:43
=== ploum wonders how can someone live without Xnest
ploumseb128, it works : Firefox, Evolution, Gnome-help05:45
ploumgreat :D05:45
seb128my previous patch was bad05:45
=== edd has never run Xnest in 8 years
jdubedd: not even for gdmflexiserver xnest loving?05:46
seb128gdmflexiserver xnest is hardly usable here05:46
mdzjdub: didn't we talk about adding it to desktop?05:46
eddnot even for whatyousaid lovenesting!05:46
seb128when I change workspace metacity crash apparently05:46
jdubmdz: we talked about it but you said "hmm, neh" or similar. ;-)05:46
ploumseb128, I never had problem with Xnest05:47
seb128and I can't get focus in the xnest windows after that, so I can't use it anymore05:47
seb128I tend to blame the new focus mode in metacity05:47
mdzjdub: as I recall, you said "hey, xnest in desktop?" and I looked at you funny, and then you explained about gdmflexiserver05:47
ploumSo, would you that I test something here on Warty, or can I back to my Debian ? 05:47
jdubmdz: it's kind of a techo use case anyway05:47
jdubmdz: but it is kinda cool, and only one more icon in system tools05:47
seb128ploum: you don't like your warty ? :)05:48
mdzjdub: it is a little big (3.5M installed, 1.5M deb)05:48
ploumseb128, I don't want to customize my warty to keep it as default as possible05:48
whiprushwhoever came up with the home applet idea, you have my thanks.05:48
seb128ploum: ok05:48
seb128ploum: so I guess you can get back to your Debian :)05:48
seb128jdub: have time to talk about the applets ?05:49
ploumFound a usability bug :05:49
mdzhome applet?05:49
ploumWhen you click a link in Evolution, nothing happens :-(05:49
jdubmdz: yeah, was just checking that too ;) let05:49
seb128ploum: probably epiphany as default in control-center ?05:49
jdub's leave it05:49
seb128and it's not installed05:49
ploumseb128, you've got it05:49
=== Kamion wonders what his chances of performing an Argentinian install are (Warty bug #580)
whiprushmdz: it's a shortcut to your home dir but on the panel. I think it's eliminated a good deal of my minimizing.05:50
jdubwhiprush: erk, that's really a side-effect of the computer menu stuff05:50
seb128jdub: should I change the default browser to firefox ?05:50
eddheresy :)05:50
jdubseb128: let's make sure we're on the same page as mdz :)05:50
ploumseb128, at least to an installed browser05:50
whiprushwhat, the applet?05:50
jdubwhiprush: yeah05:50
seb128ploum: sure, but the question is which one :)05:50
jdubmdz: you're happy with syncing firefox with the desktop/05:51
ploumAnd why is Mozilla installed if nothing depend on it ?05:51
jdubploum: ephiphany depends on mozilla05:51
ploumjdub, but epiphany is not installed05:51
Kamionploum: that was a bug in base-config, it wasn't telling aptitude to ignore Recommends:05:51
mdzjdub: I can't say I'm fully confident05:51
Kamionploum: it's fixed in the daily builds05:51
mdzjdub: the reason we can get away with it with GNOME is that they have sane release management05:51
whiprushjdub: I've started wondering if being able to drop files right on the applet and have them moved/copied to ~ would be a good idea.05:51
jdubwhiprush: ... eek. now you're turning a whoopsie into a feature. ;)05:52
Kamionjdub: best thing to do with them sometimes :-)05:52
whiprushso the entire thing is a misfeature then?05:52
jdubwhiprush: basically they appear as applets because they're special menu entries05:53
jdubi'm a little worried about shipping with them there, because depending on what happens in releases down the track, they may disappear05:53
whiprushwell, I find the home one useful, but if you removed them, you can replicate the same functionality with a launcher.05:53
whiprusher, custom launcher.05:54
seb128jdub: did you send your mail about the menu changes or not yet ? If yes I've not received it ...05:54
whiprushheh I thought you guys were conciously moving things off the desktop and onto the panels.05:54
jdub(they are interesting, though, considering the long-running discussions about fixing the whole fucked up panel/applet/execution model)05:54
jdubseb128: no, slept ;)05:54
ploumalso, another thing : the exchange plugin is uggly when you don't have an exchange server :-( (a whole blank page)05:54
whiprushploum: dupe bug! ;)05:55
jdubwhiprush: might be best to assume lack-of-plan ahead of obvious-plan ;)05:55
ploumwhiprush, soryr but I don't understand. What means "dupe" ?05:55
whiprushploum: duplicate, I already reported it.05:55
whiprushyou get a blank-looking thing that makes it look like evolution might be crashing right?05:56
ploumwhiprush, ok fine :-)05:56
ploumyes indeed05:56
=== whiprush nods.
ploumbut it's also upstream05:56
ploumWell, it seems that Warty is becoming the perfect Desktop05:56
ploumAlso, just suggestion05:57
ploumIt could be cool to add Kino by default to the desktop (for video editing and DV grabing)05:57
jdubploum: when it's a bit more polished, it'll probably go in supported (it's not the kind of thing that everyone would use005:57
seb128that's not a standard application05:58
seb128I don't want to edit videos05:58
dafif seb128 doesn't want to do it, it's not standard :)05:58
seb128daf: you get it :p05:58
ploumok :-)05:59
dafseb128: so why isn't gTetrinet in desktop? :)05:59
ploumIf you must patch firefox, a good idea would be to make by default the behaviour : clicking on a ling close it05:59
mdznpmccallum: ping?06:00
ploumso, goodbye everybody..06:00
seb128daf: yes, we already said that, we need some good games in the desktop !06:00
=== ploum think that gnome-stones is awful and buggy
seb128jdub: what do you think about gtetrinet in the desktop with a launcher in the default panel ? :)06:00
dafthe gTetrinet UI really needs some love, though06:00
dafit's pretty sucky06:01
seb128I don't really look on the UI06:01
jdubseb128: then we defer to "does jdub use it?" after the "does seb use it?" rule06:01
dafand it has some nasty i18n issues06:01
seb128jdub: yeah :-P06:01
=== ploum [~ploum@236-241.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
lamontjdub: gnome USB palm.  config.06:06
jdubugh -> now i remember how bad tsclient is :|06:09
jdublamont: what's the problem?06:09
lamontjdub: probably user error.06:09
jdubso you need to use the ttyUSB device06:10
jduband then it'll only find your palm when you press the connect button06:10
jdubi find using pilot-link to debug is worthwhile06:10
lamontwhen last I tried to figure it out, configured some conduits, and then gave up because I couldn't figure out how to build the entire structure to where I could actually get data from the PDA...06:10
lamontI think it's more the app stack to replace jpilot that was giving me the confusion...06:11
dafhaving said that, I'm up for a gTetrinet game if anybody else is06:11
jdubif you've set up the conduits for it06:11
jdub(i'd wait for new packages from seb if he hasn't done them already, there was a new release of the pilot stuff recently)06:12
seb128jdub: new package of what ?06:12
lamontjdub: and then if there's a "setting up your USB palm with evolution" howto-for-the-clueless, that'd be wonderful..06:13
jdubseb128: gnome-pilot and friends06:13
jdublamont: hrm, dunno06:13
jdubmaybe in the gnome-pilot or evo docs06:13
seb128jdub: I'm supposed to package new version of gnome-pilot ?06:13
lamontyeah, will dig.06:13
seb128I didn't know06:13
jdubseb128: well, it's not strictly in the gnome list, but older versions won't work with evo1.5 8)06:14
seb128ok, so I'll have a look06:14
lamontseb128: it's kinda one of those assumptions - new gnome, seb uploads. :-)  You've been doing such an overkill job on it that, well...06:14
jdubseb128: sorry, i'll make sure we define this properly during hoary06:15
seb128like - build problem, just ping lamont ? :)06:15
lamontseb128: yeah!  that's it/06:15
jdubseb128: perhaps even via a gnome seed, so we can see all the depends and so on :-)06:15
seb128jdub: no problem, if some stuff are not updated but should be, just let me know06:16
Kamionone of the symptoms of a startup distribution is that lots of enormous areas of functionality tend to be maintained by one hero maintainer :)06:16
jdubo/~ we don't need another hero, we just need another seb128 o/!06:16
eddor just get the existing seb128 a ram pack (wobble free, of course)06:19
jdubso he'd be seb512?06:19
eddsounds good.06:20
MithrandirKamion: .. like, the installer?06:20
npmccallummdz: pong06:26
mdznpmccallum: can you take care of #501 today?06:26
jdubis it actually possible to upload to hoary yet?06:28
npmccallummdz: sure thing06:28
jdublike, i don't care if things won't get built, but i'd like to dump some stuff up there06:29
mdznpmccallum: cool, thanks06:30
KamionMithrandir: I guess :)06:30
mdzjdub: new packages, or new versions?06:30
jdubhrm, both :)06:30
mdzjdub: new versions won't really work, considering hoary is going to get new stuff from sid06:31
mdzthen we'd have to merge warty changes _and_ hoary changes into it06:32
jduband baby jesus would cry06:32
mdzjdub: does vino not have a menu entry?06:33
npmccallummdz: #501 is done, the package is in ~npmccallum/UploadQueue06:34
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-143-013.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== justdave [~dave@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
jdubmdz: 'remote desktop' under desktop preferences06:36
jdubmdz: you have to run vino-session to make the server work though (that should be added in gnome-session)06:36
mdznpmccallum: no need to wait on it, thanks06:36
jdubunless that's done already - seb128 ?06:36
seb128do what ?06:36
seb128vino in the default session ?06:37
seb128yes, it is06:37
jdub$ gksudo gdmsetup06:37
jdubWe trust you ha06:37
jdub^ erm?06:37
mdzKamion: console-data asked me a question on upgrade for some reason06:37
mdzjdub: that's the annoying sudo banner06:38
mdzI thought we turned that off by default06:38
mdzDefaults        !lecture,tty_tickets06:39
jdubgksudo seems elb0rk06:40
mdzjdub: assuming we get it working, are we going to have to modify a ton of .desktop files to actually use gksudo?06:40
Kamionmdz: no idea; what does echo GET debconf/priority | debconf-communicate say?06:40
mdzor should we link gksu -> gksudo?06:40
jduboh no, there is goes06:40
jdubmdz: that's what i'm trying to figure out now ;)06:40
mdzseems to work for me06:40
Kamionmdz: wasn't anything I changed anyway, I don't think06:40
mdzno lecture either06:41
mdzKamion: 0 high06:41
Kamionunless console-data asks you whenever the list of keymaps it knows about changes, or something BONG like that06:41
mdzit doesn't ask me anything on --reinstall06:41
=== wall1 [~wally@pD954A187.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== jdub wonders why the login photo icon is still appearing under advanced...
seb128jdub: because your first was not changing that and you said you'll removed the advanced part so we don't care06:50
seb128s/first/first patch/06:51
jdubhrm, the gdm diff.gz removes AdvancedSettings, yet the installed package has it...06:51
jdubseb128: mmm, i think it should be invisible (at the moment), but there's a bit of a difference between the src and the installed package ;)06:53
=== Keybuk [scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
jdubmdz: gksudo is a symlink to gksu06:56
jdubmdz: so, um, i think that means we're stuck modifying desktop files06:56
mdzjdub: yeah, noticed that06:56
mdzsilly thing06:56
seb128jdub: apparently one more "I changed the .desktop instead of .desktop.in" ....06:57
jdubseb128: :)06:57
jdubseb128: that jdub is a bit of a twit :)06:57
jdubseb128: but you accepted his patch! ;)06:57
jdubmdz: ok, i'm going to change the gdm one now06:57
seb128yeah, shame on me06:57
Keybukjdub: that picture of you is a classic06:58
seb128I think I'll try Oskuro's method -> jdub's mail filter to /dev/null06:58
jdubKeybuk: which?06:59
jduboh, haha07:00
Oskurooh, so cool :D07:01
Oskurowas this the last friday?07:02
Oskurohttp://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2004/lwce-canonical/imgp0063.jpg <- dde07:03
Oskurodude even!07:03
Oskuroheh, "jdub visits toilet" series07:04
eddyou people scare me07:08
mdzthom: did you happen to notice in your chunderbird adventure _why_ it build-depends on csh and whether it would be straightforward to fix?07:27
jdubnpmccallum: did you see justdave's gvm autorun default issue?07:31
KamionGracias por elegir Ubuntu!07:31
npmccallumjdub: yes, I did07:31
justdavemdz: there are two .csh files in the entire tree, and nothing uses them as part of the build anymore, according to the Mozilla folks07:31
OskuroKamion: oh!07:31
npmccallumjdub: I know what the problem is, but I don't quiet know how to solve it yet07:31
jdubnpmccallum: modify the schemas file07:32
OskuroKamion: I saw Catalan "de Ubuntu" issues in my Warty install the other day, btw.07:32
justdavean if they are, one is 31 lines and the other 81 (with lots of whitespace) so it probably wouldn't be exhorbitant to translate them to bash07:32
Oskuro(should be "d'Ubuntu")07:32
jdubelegir == install? :)07:32
KamionOskuro: Tollef may not have known about that issue07:32
npmccallumjdub: I'm not sure what you mean07:32
Kamionjdub: choosing07:32
jdubOskuro: whoa, d'Ubuntu! :)07:32
Oskurojdub: choose07:32
jdubnpmccallum: the defaults are defined in the gconf schema file07:32
Oskurojdub: sounds great doesn't it? :)07:32
jdubnpmccallum: included with gvm07:32
npmccallumjdub: I think we may be talking about different issues07:32
jdubnpmccallum: justdave said autorun was on by default (which doesn't sound right to me, but...)07:33
npmccallumnpmccallum: why is that a problem?07:33
Kamioninsert evil CD your friend gave you, evil code autoruns07:34
jdubnpmccallum: it's not a sane default (even though almost nothing uses autorun, but if something shitty did, then that would suck)07:34
npmccallumjdub: ok, we can disable it07:35
Kamionhm, we need Joey's recent base-config patch to glue LANG into /etc/default/gdm07:35
Kamionotherwise gdm comes up in English on the second boot regardless of installation language07:36
Mithrandirthat would be very nice, yes.07:36
Kamionfabbione: you doing anything with base-config at the moment?07:40
mdzjustdave: oh, great, thanks for the info07:44
jdubseb128: hrm07:47
seb128jdub: what ?07:47
jdubseb128: every now and then, the 'run application...' entry appears or disappears in the applications menu07:47
seb128is your panel working correctly ?07:48
jdubotherwise, yeah07:48
jdubi just installed gdm07:48
jdubnew gdm package07:48
seb128ie: if you change the width you get the visual change ?07:48
jdubso perhaps it has something to do with re-reading the items?07:48
jdubvisual change?07:48
jduboh, if i change the setting, does it react?07:49
seb128ok, so that's not that bug07:49
seb128I note it on my huge list of stuff to check :)07:49
=== jdub *fears* menu.c
=== seb128 fear to have to add all the places and bookmarks here
jdubyeah, so, we totally need a little tool that looks for extra stuff you've installed from universe and supported :-)07:54
seb128would be nice yeah07:55
seb128jdub: I've mailed trashapplet's maintainer sunday and still no news ... 07:56
jdubseb128: debian or upstream?07:56
seb128this is not in debian07:56
jduboh yeah,07:56
jdubthat's a bummer07:56
npmccallumjdub: do all the file names need to change as well (ubuntu-artwork)?07:57
seb128I send 2 patches in fact, reported some issues and talked about the animations stuff07:57
seb128I guess he's on holidays or something like that, no reason to not reply07:57
jdubnpmccallum: as opposed to just the theme dir names?07:58
=== jdub pulls u-a to have a squiz
mdznpmccallum: I thought autorun prompted the user before executing the program07:58
mdzthat seems like the most reasonable default, explain what will happen and ask for confirmation07:59
seb128npmccallum: sorry, I've not had time to look on your patch yet, but I don't forget it, don't worry07:59
seb128I'll try to have a look after dinner07:59
npmccallumseb128: Its ok, I'll do the changes, just keep working07:59
npmccallumseb128: I'm waiting for the new pmount as well07:59
npmccallumjdub, mdz: gvm *does* prompt before running08:02
npmccallumjdub: I mean like the image filenames08:03
mdznpmccallum: why disable it, then?  that seems safe enough08:03
npmccallummdz: I was just honoring jdub's request :)08:03
=== mdz pokes jdub
jdubmdz: anal retentive safety, and the fact that basically nothing uses RH-style autorun anyway08:04
mdzthe only security issue is when something is run unexpectedly, without the user's explicit consent08:05
mdzif they _want_ it to run, then they're just going to click around and do it anyway, and the feature would have saved them some time08:05
seb128   * gnome-volume-manager.schemas.in: turned off autorun by default08:05
seb128another guy changing directly a file in a GNOME package ?08:05
seb128we use CDBS and put patchs (standard diff format) in debian/patches/08:07
npmccallumseb128: sorry, my bad08:07
seb128no problem08:07
seb128I know a lot of maintainer just change the package and get the changes in the .diff.gz08:07
npmccallumseb128: I think we may roll back that patch anyway08:07
mdzseb128: this will all hopefully be a non-issue with sourcerer :-)08:07
seb128but that's a pain to track what's changed or not08:07
seb128yes, but for the moment that's much more easy to track the changes with patches in debian/patches08:08
seb128npmccallum: no problem, don't worry08:08
jdubseb128: (was the non-patches change to gnome-applets ok, considering it was just new files under debian/ and a change to debian/rules?)08:08
mdzok, I need radio silence for a few hours; I'll be answering the phone in case something urgent comes up08:08
seb128jdub: yes, for this one only the changelog entry was bad :p08:09
npmccallummdz, jdub: roll back the gvm autorun change?08:09
seb128BTW time to dinner, later guys08:09
jdubseb128: 8)08:09
mdznpmccallum: if nobody uses it, I don't suppose it matters either way08:09
jdubnpmccallum: i'd prefer it off, even just so it doesn't pop up stupid dialogues08:10
KamionI'll be merging a current version of base-config this evening (I hope), since it has a lot of bug fixes we want08:10
Kamionwill have to do a full install with the merged version on a CD, though; it'll be a fairly complex merge08:11
Kamioncan we have joeyh's minimal preseeding work in Warty?08:12
Kamionhe did most of it at the Canonical conference08:12
npmccallumjdub: I'll leave it off08:12
wall1*grrrr* i hate  dia  :-/08:45
wall1well, i really like it, but when you start to rely on it too much... 08:46
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_newbie_hi can anyone tell me how I get around the root password problem. I'm trying to setup my laptop but have no idea what to do when asked for root password because install did'nt ask me to set one08:50
Mithrandir_newbie_: open a shell and type  sudo passwd root08:50
Mithrandirfor now08:50
Mithrandiryou'll be asked about a password, that's your user password08:50
Mithrandirthen you'll get a question for the new password for root.08:51
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_newbie_ok, next question. how do you update the system from the 'net, installed uodated packages etc?09:13
_newbie_install, even09:13
Kamionput 'deb http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/no-name-yet warty main' in /etc/apt/sources.list, 'apt-get update', then use apt-get (or "Synaptic Package Manager" from the menus) as normal09:14
Kamionwe'll be making that a bit less voodoo soon09:14
MithrandirKamion: synaptic is run through gksu, which doesn't do sudo.09:25
justdave'sudo passwd root'09:26
justdaveproblem solved.09:27
justdavealthough I'm not sure how to undo that later. :)09:27
justdave(once gksudo or whatever it's called becomes available)09:27
MithrandirI wonder if we could have a sudo-query [-u $user]  $command which would return true if the user could run $command as $user.09:28
Kamionsudo passwd -l root09:28
KamionMithrandir: sudo -l09:28
MithrandirKamion: seems to ask for a password here?09:29
Kamionotherwise it'd be information leakage09:29
Kamion(it's asking for your own password)09:29
MithrandirI'm not sure if the information leakage is critical.09:30
KamionI'd be uncomfortable if sudo -l required less authentication than sudo itself09:30
Mithrandirand I don't see how you would implement gksu properly without a way to ask whether sudo could run the command09:30
Kamioncan't you just try it?09:31
Mithrandirso gksu will first ask for the user's password, then discover it doesn't work (because of either wrong password or not correct permissions), which will cause mails to be sent and so on.09:31
Mithrandirand then it will prompt for the root password.09:32
Mithrandirvery confusing UI-wise.09:32
Mithrandirand sudo-query would be less bad than sudo -l without password, imho.09:32
Mithrandiruse PAM and rate limit it if you so want.09:32
Kamionno, we should make gksu *only* ever use sudo if the root password is locked09:33
Kamionremember that we need to make this work for warty; I'm very uneasy about hacks around sudo's security in that timeframe ...09:33
_newbie_does ubunto have the firmware for prismGT cards? Or do I have to download and install drivers before my Netgear PCMCIA wireless card will work?09:33
Mithrandirhow can gksu know that?09:34
Kamionhm, of course, it can't09:34
Kamionin that case gksu will need some configuration that the tool to enable/disable the root password could change ...09:34
Mithrandirit sounds hackish09:35
Mithrandir_newbie_: cd /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware ; wget -O isl3890 http://prism54.org/~mcgrof/firmware/
Mithrandirthen it should work if you pop the card and insert it again09:36
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_newbie_i've done the wget for the firmware. on reboot i get the error prism54 isl3890 size  is not a multiple of 32bit ABORTING10:26
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seb128hey crevette 11:12
crevetteI can't no more a resolution 1280x102411:12
crevetteis there a change in the resolution detection ?11:12
=== spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu
seb128crevette: that's a question for fabbione 11:26
crevettewhouach 11:26
crevettethere is a lot of modules loaded by default11:26
seb128crevette: mail the list so you'll get a reply later11:26
crevetteI look like a newbie11:27
crevetteI change my res11:27
crevette+ can't11:27
seb128you don't have any other resolution in the xrandr stuff ?11:28
mdzcrevette: are you subscribed to the sounder mailing list?11:29
mdzfabbione posted a message recently which explains what to do if the autoconfiguration does not do what you expect11:29
mdzI can forward you a copy if you are not on the list11:29
crevettemdz: very recently11:34
crevetteI was very busy last hours11:34
crevetteI will look into the archive11:34

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