=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-140-157.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu === mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu === mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu === doko [doko@dsl-082-083-140-157.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu === lamont__ [~lamont@phantom.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu === daniels [daniel@fooishbar.org] has joined #ubuntu === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net === Oskuro [~jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu === edd [dancer@pod-124.dolphin-server.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu === MacRohard [rm@4691.irradiated.haggis.org] has joined #ubuntu === fabbione [~fabbione@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu === lamont__ [~lamont@phantom.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu [01:51] mdz: working hours --- normally 9am'ish to 5pm'ish EST [01:51] npmccallum: thanks [01:51] I'm off for the rest of the night though, family [01:51] night all! [01:58] is there an upstream keyword? [02:06] in the BTS? yes. [02:17] Mithrandir: ok, thanks. [02:18] oh, sorry, I thought I was on the #debian-devel channel, for warty bts, I'm not sure. [02:29] heh [02:29] k === aes [~andrew@dsl-212-23-23-154.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu === Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu === cef_work [~cef@fw-01.amc.com.au] has joined #ubuntu === rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-5-90.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu [10:49] morning seb128 [10:49] hello [10:49] hald just died again and i need to test sj [10:49] hey rburton [10:49] arse arse arse [10:50] bbiab [10:55] anyone else missing "tree" ? [10:56] ik5pvx: from main? [10:56] yes, from main [10:56] a little bit [10:57] I tend to use it a lot, but it may just be a bad habit of mine [10:57] doing my first upgrade from the archive (no universe for now) after a fresh install right now === fabbione gets ready for the usual bunch of X bugs.... === SteveA [~steve@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu [10:58] morning [10:59] morning SteveA [10:59] I got an oops on boot with sounder 6 on my laptop [10:59] anyone interested in the photos? [11:01] they're in ~limi on chinstrap [11:01] second boot was okay === fabbione takes a look [11:05] SteveA: permission denied. please do a chmod 644 P* or something [11:05] otherwise i can't even read it :-) === SteveA asks limi [11:06] sorry for the quality and splitting of the photos [11:06] can't do much with a phone's camera [11:10] SteveA: just stay around. i might need you to do some stuff for me [11:11] SteveA: do you have a full copy of that oops? [11:11] on a piece of paper or something? [11:12] otherwise the pics are useless :( [11:13] sadly not, and I haven't looked at the pics yet. They went straight from the camera to limi's laptop === fabbione sighs === SteveA looks at the pics === fabbione prepares a mail to sounder to explain what to do on kernel oops [11:15] is there a way to get the oops info written to swap space or something like that? [11:16] SteveA: i know there is a way to get it dumped via network, but i am not sure how reliable it is and how it works exactly. [11:16] does the stock kernel have the ability to use serial console ? [11:17] ik5pvx: it's exactly like the Debian kernel [11:17] I guess no serial console and no sysrq support then [11:18] sysrq should be there [11:20] ok [11:20] I'll figure it out later then [11:22] another program that I miss: traceroute-nanog [11:24] fabbione: I'm waiting approval to join the sounder list. Can you send me a copy of your message? [11:24] SteveA: haven't written it yet. [11:24] SteveA: basically you copy the entire oops in a file [11:24] and pass it to ksymoops [11:25] it will generate some output that will tell more or less what is wrong, where === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-5-90.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu [11:26] ok. I was hoping the photos would show enough to get the text of the oops... [11:26] but a couple of them are too blurred === stub [~zen@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu === rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu [11:30] SteveA: apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.7 && cd /usr/src && tar jxvfp kernel-source-2.6.7.tar.bz2 && cd kernel-source-2.6.7/Documentation [11:31] according to your experience read: BUG-HUNTING and oops-tracing.txt [11:31] (ps it's not a RTFM, but it will take me sometime to make it simpler to understand for everybody) [11:31] in the meanwhile you know what to do if it happens again [11:31] ok, thanks === stub [~zen@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu [11:38] yay uptime of 13 minutes and hald is dead already [11:41] hum, I would say you have a problem with hald :/ [11:43] Keybuk: see Seth's post about NetworkManager on ddl? [11:44] yeah [11:45] I'm quite amused by the sudden "oh fuck, we were working on one of those too" type posts flurrying to d-d-l atm [11:45] proof, if it were needed, that "release early and often" is always better than "don't release until its finished" [11:46] yeah [11:46] apparently a few redhat feathers were ruffled [11:47] because they explicitly asked rml to look at it numerous times [11:49] rh haven't released any source yet though? [11:49] or is it in gnome cvs? [11:50] yeah, it's in gnome cvs === rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu [11:54] heh, mjg59 is *fast* ... less than 30 minutes after it was announced he had Debian support in [11:55] NetManager is far more interesting, but netapplet is far cuter === Gman doesn't like the fact that it's a nicon [11:56] that's wrong. [11:56] however cute it might look [11:57] mjg59: you have debian support for network manager? where? :-) [11:57] [which is pretty standard for ximianites] [11:57] thom: Should be in CVS [11:58] I sent patches to Dan [11:59] Weirdly, the only thing of interest that the netapplet applet does is pop up a menu [11:59] It'd be trivial to just embed that in the netstatus app [11:59] does debian have hal/dbus? [11:59] Yes === Gman is so out of date [11:59] sweet [12:00] Ought to be shipping with them next month, along with Mono [12:00] the only annoying thing about NetworkManager is it doesn't automatically associate with wireless networks :-/ [12:00] Yeah [12:00] mono on debian? [12:00] brr [12:00] :) [12:00] Haha [12:00] We can ship Mono, we can't ship Sun's Java [12:01] yeah [12:01] well [12:01] see [12:01] yeah [12:01] nevermind [12:01] :) === Keybuk is still slightly irritated mono 1.0 missed the warty freeze :-/ [12:03] why? [12:03] sixth monthly release process *bites* :p "not fast enough, you're in the next release" [12:04] Jeff can be evil [12:04] fascist [12:05] :o) I have a signed copy of Edd's book to play with, and a crusty Mono! [12:08] has somebody planned a openoffice upload soon ? [12:08] we need to update the desktop files, but uploading only for this ... [12:10] i think you're gonna have to do it [12:10] it's not like we're stretched for build resources :-) [12:11] he he === rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu [01:39] Keybuk: mono 1.0? dude, that's going to be a barrel of laughs for totally non-release related reasons during hoary [01:39] oh? [01:39] every time i say mono, eyebrows are raised [01:40] oh aye, whose? [01:40] mark's, elmo's, etc. [01:40] heh [01:41] there's certainly a prickly legal fence hear it [01:41] heh [01:42] Keybuk: read bryan clark's entry about NetworkManager? [01:42] yeah I did [01:44] looked kinda cute; won't compile on warty though *sulk* [01:44] oh no [01:44] dude [01:45] you said kthxbye on your blog [01:45] gack. thunderbird build-deps on csh [01:45] oh the horror [01:45] jdub: there was an accompanying IRC conversation to that one [01:46] weird reading joey's entries with long-hair context, and having met him now without it === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-8-151.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu [01:51] man, catching up on mail this time is horrendous [01:51] also, it's 9pm, and i'm waking up :| [01:51] jet lag? [01:51] timezone fuckage thus far [01:51] jetlag will come later ;) [01:52] hey jdub [01:52] yo seb! [01:52] what timezone fuckage? isn't 9pm about your usual time for getting up? :p [01:54] yo jdub! === jdub spanks Keybuk [01:55] hey rburton [01:56] whoa, paul cooper is testing on a superdooper new imac [01:56] yum [01:56] rburton: so i saw your email with the mockup at the airport, but it hasn't appeared now that i've pulled my mail :| [01:56] oh [01:56] shit [01:57] maybe i've flushed stuff without collecting it all... hrm. [01:57] anyway, could you resend? [01:57] :) [02:06] sure [02:06] (muppet) [02:06] ;) [02:07] hey rburton [02:07] hi fabbione [02:07] did you get my comment on the mouse speed? [02:07] yeah [02:07] comment+s [02:07] i'll try after lunch [02:07] great! [02:08] jdub: i've got a better one now too, give me a minute [02:11] hrm, got a copy of fedora handy? [02:12] or RH somethingorother? [02:12] there's one on little [02:12] no, a running copy :) [02:12] oh, no [02:12] you're not near ross anyway :) === Gman has [02:13] jdub: we've got rh9 installed on most desktops. you want me to look at up2date, right? [02:13] i guess a sshot will do; Gman: could you take a shot of each page of the app install/remove thingy? [02:13] oh [02:13] no [02:13] rburton: aha! no, the gui thingy === Gman can only log in remotely [02:13] ahr [02:14] i have redhat 8 screenies for all their system tools [02:14] whats it called? [02:14] rburton: it's more wizardy [02:14] erm [02:14] dunno, innit in the menu? [02:14] aha [02:14] redhat-config-packages [02:14] hm, maybe not [02:14] this isn't wizardy [02:15] yeah it is [02:15] well, it's using GnomeDruid [02:15] there's like one page of categories [02:16] then a page of apps under it [02:16] i can send you a screenie of that [02:16] with checkboxes [02:16] yeah, i've got that [02:16] Editors, Graphical Internet, etc with Details buttons [02:16] which leads to a list of packages with check boxes === Gman sends [02:22] heh, i like it how jody still brings up random things that debian has done... [02:23] resolvconf in this case [02:24] that's cause he is forced to run suse by his evil company [02:24] just like me [02:25] Gman: You're not being recruited, are you? === thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu [02:25] recruited by novell? hah, no [02:25] rburton: so the first page is okayish [02:25] rburton: we can do a whole load better on the second page (icons, translated descriptions) [02:26] rburton: but that's the kind of thing i was thinking about [02:26] is this the redhat-config-packages i found in rh9? === rburton might need a screenie to confirm [02:26] rburton: (a single big treeview would get very scary, very quickly) [02:26] yeah, i guess so [02:26] Gman: can i forward to rburton ? [02:26] shit yeah [02:26] jdub, hrm, maybe i should send you this big doc [02:27] i'll put it up on w.g.o [02:27] i think it might be of use to you guys === Gman did a comparison of redhat to yast a long while ago [02:31] in terms of sys config tools [02:38] hrm [02:38] ERROR: /etc/power/pmcs-pbbuttonsd doesn't exist. [02:38] (on trying to start pbbuttonsd manually) === jdub lodges a bug [02:39] oh, right. so you're prepared to make your ibook work, but not make tmp dirs work right ;P [02:40] i haven't been using pbbuttonsd until now [02:40] fascist [02:42] thom: do you know what that file is? [02:44] ahr, referred to in the conf file [02:44] Script_PMCS [02:44] should be in the pbbuttonsd package [02:45] (this is the version in unstable, btw, so that may be bollocksed) [02:45] ok, my computer is ganging up on me now [02:46] sounds kinky [02:46] not only did it decide I needed a Typing Break, but Rhythmbox decided the track I would listen to during it was the Macarena [02:46] haha [02:46] BWAHAHA [02:46] you deserve it [02:46] i *hate* graphical mail clients [02:46] thom: s/graphical// [02:46] they all suck. [02:47] Mithrandir [02:47] you are still in time to write one from scratch ;) [02:47] Keybuk: and this is why i turn on skip break [02:47] fabbione: I will, I think [02:48] rburton: I had it on, but I was skipping breaks too much [02:48] Mithrandir: we still have the BTS via IMAP access :-) [02:48] so I decided to discipline myself and turn it off [02:48] fabbione: right, I have forgotten about that. I need to get mark to fund some of my crackier ideas. [02:49] everybody know typing breaks are for the weak anyhow. [02:49] Mithrandir: chunderbird is my least favourite so far, especially now that mutt imap doesn't suck [02:49] i would hate a popup that tells me to take a break [02:50] I have working wrists, so don't need one [02:50] thom: chunderbird? you mean thunderbird? and you have applied the imap header caching patch and so on? [02:50] Unlike all these people with WEAK, FEEBLE wrists [02:50] Mithrandir: i have the imap header caching patch in mutt, yeah [02:50] Sounder 8 isn't going to be out by Sunday, is it? [02:50] 1 N33D N0 571NKY BR34K5 'C4U53 1 4M L337 [02:50] and yes, i mean thunderbird [02:51] mjg59: I've been typing on keyboards for somewhere in the range of twenty years.. if I were to get RSI, I would have had it as a ten-year old. [02:52] Mithrandir: I thought the same, but in the few weeks I've been running with it on, I've noticed my wrists feel much happier [02:52] especially at the gym, they don't ache as much with the weights === rburton too === Gman finds that not actually coding helps [02:53] Keybuk: I don't go to the gym.. I climb a bit, though. No wrist pain. === Keybuk declares lunch; back in a bit [02:54] isn't #305 fixed? [03:20] aiiie, and chunderbird defaults to fucking HTML email by default [03:21] haw haw [03:22] thom: the one in warty has pmcs-* [03:22] you should be running warty then, shouldn't you :p [03:23] currently on a separate partition on my ibook [03:23] resyncing /home atm [03:24] right, that's enough of thunderbird [03:24] POS [03:24] you trying out GUI clients? [03:25] no, testing that moz-* can get the security fixes without breakage [03:25] moz is so much fear when it comes to security fixes over long periods of time [03:25] "API? Was ist das?" [03:26] no no "API? Yes, we like them. have 15 more!" [03:27] why do we have smp kernels by default on ppc? :) [03:29] ok, cups is my new best friend [03:29] it's gone from "I hate it and uninstall it" to "ooh, sexy" [03:29] cups of tea? [03:29] printer stuff [03:30] yes yes [03:31] *yawn* [03:31] on my way into work === dieman_ is now known as diieman [04:11] morning === bdale [~bdale@rover.gag.com] has joined #ubuntu [04:12] yo mdz, bdale [04:13] dudes [04:14] 'sup [04:16] hey dudes [04:25] man, working with mozilla is made so much harder by the fact the horrible thing is 40MB of source === fabbione is testing daily crack on a very old laptop [04:26] hey bdale [04:35] hrm [04:35] so i've made /dev/pmu world-writable (icky, only for now) [04:35] and battstat is still nfi [04:36] mind-numbing executive teleconferences... [04:37] jdub: yeah, you need the apm emulation loaded [04:38] oh, bong [04:38] heh [04:39] when i tried that earlier tonight, i was still running sid (with my own kernel) [04:39] thanks 8) === bdale kicks off an rsync of sounder-test images since he thinks he'll have time to play some later today [04:45] amazing... [04:45] this laptop is so oooold === bdale suggests a 'current' symlink the next time there's a livecd drop, so that rsync'ing the latest with both eyes closed is easier... [04:46] hm, there isn't one already? [04:46] bdale: there is one [04:46] no, there isn't [04:46] oh LIVEcd [04:46] bdale: just added one now [04:47] Kamion: cool. thanks. ever so much easier to script the rsync this way... ;-) [04:48] can't guarantee that the filename won't change, though ... livecds aren't really my bailiwick as such [04:49] no worries [04:50] I've got lots of disk space, and I don't really care how long the T1 is busy when I manually kick off a sync script like this... what I mostly care about is that when it's done, I've got the freshest bits on the local side of the pipe. [04:50] does anyone here have a Macintosh system with an Airport card? [04:50] yes [04:50] jdub: could you run "cat /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/radio/name" for me, please? [04:51] willow:~# "cat /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/radio/name" [04:51] -su: cat /proc/device-tree/pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/radio/name: No such file or directory [04:51] [04:51] without the double quotes [04:51] good lord, how did i manage that? [04:51] output is "radio" [04:51] excellent, thanks [04:52] hm, does /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/bmac/name happen to exist too? === jdub grumbles about airport drivers being bong === Kamion is reworking mac-io hardware detection somewhat [04:53] nup [04:53] Kamion: we need to take a look to base-config when you have time [04:54] Kamion: we need to add apt lines for CD install. [04:54] and perhaps ask if they want to enable "universe" [04:54] but only after the desktop installation [04:54] (at least for how i see it) [04:54] jdub: ah well, can't have everything [04:55] cat /proc/device-tree/pci\@f2000000/ has no bmac [04:55] s/cat // [04:55] fabbione: agreed, will look at it once I've finished this [04:55] jdub: fair enough, might be more of an oldworld thing [04:55] it has mac-io [04:56] bmac is a specific Ethernet card, it's not entirely unexpected that you don't have it [04:56] every Mac should have mac-io as far as I know [04:56] yeah, i have airport and sungem [04:56] the gmac driver also works [04:56] but is not in fashion any more [04:56] I'd like to make discover walk it, or be hotpluggable, but for now I'm writing a cheesy discover-mac-io.sh in ddetect [04:56] does d-i detect all of that? [04:57] from memory, yeah [04:57] I think sungem might show up on the PCI bus [04:57] yeah: [04:57] 0002:02:0f.0 Class ffff: Apple Computer Inc. UniNorth GMAC (Sun GEM) (rev ff) [04:58] once i have shifted everything off my old sid partition, i'll start doing random installs on it [04:58] Kamion: if we are not in any rush i can do it tomorrow. we can just reuse contrib for universe e non-free for restriceted, and change security according to the last Bof with mdz [04:58] but can't do those atm ;) [04:59] fabbione: sure [04:59] Kamion: ok.. i take the task than. [04:59] Kamion: are the latest dailies package sorted? (or should i wait before downloading, to avoid rsync hell)? [04:59] also because we need the proper infrastructure in place to add restriced and security [04:59] Kamion: any thoughts on what can be done about APIC? even to the extent of user education so they know what to try if they do get random freezes? [05:00] jdub: should be [05:00] jdub: rsync actually seems to deal with the sorting fairly reasonably [05:00] thom: it's in the help screens; beyond that I honestly don't know [05:01] heh, i don't want to add universe just to install spamassassin ;) [05:06] Kamion: ooh, we have a sorted daily now? [05:07] Kamion: it's not really documented that apic is what they want, though? [05:09] mdz: for a while ... [05:09] mdz: I was wondering if sorting the directory inodes with the files they contain would help too - they're all at the start at the moment === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-8-151.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu === daniels [daniel@fooishbar.org] has joined #ubuntu === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu === npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu === hrdwrbob_ [~hrdwrbob@220-253-14-97.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu === revlob [dave@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu === whiprush [~jorge@arslinux.com] has joined #ubuntu === bob2 [rob@egads.ertius.org] has joined #ubuntu [05:17] mdz: -firefox building now [05:18] FUCK [05:18] they stolen my car! [05:18] FUCK [05:18] dude, no way :( === fabbione has to run to the police station [05:18] thom: are we taking latest firefox, or patching existing version? [05:18] fabbione: !!! [05:18] jdub: the latter [05:19] i'm not sure that's the right thing to do [05:19] jdub: gnomedb should be 1.1.x since it's a GNOME part, right ? [05:19] seb128: not a high priority part, no [05:20] jdub: given the changes between unstable and warty, it's the only thing to do [05:20] thom, mdz: surely we should be pulling latest firefox in with gnome [05:20] ok, so we stay with 1.0.x ? [05:20] seb128: yeah, preferably (it's stable, 1.1 isn't) [05:20] gnomedb has some bad bugs, but not sure 1.1 is better ... [05:20] jdub: we should? [05:20] so far, firefox 0.9 has been a debacle in unstable [05:21] hrm, was working okay for me before [05:21] I've NOTWARTY'd a dozen or so RC bugs in it [05:21] well [05:21] we have the firefox vs. epiphany choice [05:22] if we choose firefox, i'd prefer to sync to the latest versoins [05:22] and it's just changed (again) to not use xvfb in the postinst [05:22] so that's gonna take a long time to settle out, again [05:22] (0.8 is horrific) [05:22] jdub: new upstream versions? this late in the game? [05:22] I don't find 0.8 horrific at all [05:23] in terms of being a good gnome browser, 0.8 is not the right choice [05:23] ephy! === rburton runs [05:23] so, if that's the case, perhaps we should stick with ephy for this release === thom agrees with ross [05:23] this is not an ephy vs. firefox debate [05:23] I'd rather the better browser than the better gnome browser [05:24] it's a "what do we do now?" debate [05:24] mdz: those aren't very indistinguishable [05:24] firefox 0.8 does not fit in well with the desktop [05:25] firefox 1.0 will be much better in that regard (as you can see with 0.9) [05:25] firefox 1.0 will not make Warty [05:26] so, the firefox switch was made in context of having the latest version we could in it [05:26] but if we can't do that, we should not make the switch [05:27] that assumption was not made clear at the time the decision was made [05:27] that said, I'm open to new firefox [05:28] considering that we need the fixes for the latest batch of mozilla deluxe vulnerabilities [05:28] jdub: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mozilla-firefox/mozilla-firefox_0.9.3-2.2/changelog [05:29] mdz: the two current in our bugzilla both appear to backport cleanly, patched ver is building now *shrug* [05:29] thom: are we not affected by the other 5 in debbugs? [05:29] I've lost track [05:33] ber, they've changed api anyway. that backport just blew up [05:34] erk ;) === justdave [~justdave@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu === aes [~andrew@dsl-212-23-23-154.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu [05:35] mdz: it scares me, but looking at the amount of work it'll take to beat these patches into shape, and the fact that backports of the rest are gonna get harder and harder, we might have to go for it. i really don't want to tho === justdave [~justdave@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu [05:36] thom: don't want to sync with firefox? [05:37] mdz: means we need to pull libcairo into supported from universe [05:37] jdub: yeah [05:37] who moderates the mailing list ? [05:38]