[01:51] <npmccallum> mdz: working hours --- normally 9am'ish to 5pm'ish EST
[01:51] <mdz> npmccallum: thanks
[01:51] <npmccallum> I'm off for the rest of the night though, family
[01:51] <npmccallum> night all!
[01:58] <whiprush> is there an upstream keyword?
[02:06] <Mithrandir> in the BTS? yes.
[02:17] <whiprush> Mithrandir: ok, thanks.
[02:18] <Mithrandir> oh, sorry, I thought I was on the #debian-devel channel, for warty bts, I'm not sure.
[02:29] <whiprush> heh
[02:29] <whiprush> k
[10:49] <rburton> morning seb128
[10:49] <seb128> hello
[10:49] <rburton> hald just died again and i need to test sj
[10:49] <seb128> hey rburton 
[10:49] <rburton> arse arse arse
[10:50] <rburton> bbiab
[10:55] <ik5pvx> anyone else missing "tree" ?
[10:56] <fabbione> ik5pvx: from main?
[10:56] <ik5pvx> yes, from main
[10:56] <fabbione> a little bit
[10:57] <ik5pvx> I tend to use it a lot, but it may just be a bad habit of mine
[10:57] <ik5pvx> doing my first upgrade from the archive (no universe for now) after a fresh install right now
[10:58] <SteveA> morning
[10:59] <fabbione> morning SteveA 
[10:59] <SteveA> I got an oops on boot with sounder 6 on my laptop
[10:59] <SteveA> anyone interested in the photos?
[11:01] <SteveA> they're in ~limi on chinstrap
[11:01] <SteveA> second boot was okay
[11:05] <fabbione> SteveA: permission denied. please do a chmod 644 P* or something
[11:05] <fabbione> otherwise i can't even read it :-)
[11:06] <SteveA> sorry for the quality and splitting of the photos
[11:06] <SteveA> can't do much with a phone's camera
[11:10] <fabbione> SteveA: just stay around. i might need you to do some stuff for me
[11:11] <fabbione> SteveA: do you have a full copy of that oops?
[11:11] <fabbione> on a piece of paper or something?
[11:12] <fabbione> otherwise the pics are useless :(
[11:13] <SteveA> sadly not, and I haven't looked at the pics yet.  They went straight from the camera to limi's laptop
[11:15] <SteveA> is there a way to get the oops info written to swap space or something like that?
[11:16] <fabbione> SteveA: i know there is a way to get it dumped via network, but i am not sure how reliable it is and how it works exactly.
[11:16] <ik5pvx> does the stock kernel have the ability to use serial console ?
[11:17] <fabbione> ik5pvx: it's exactly like the Debian kernel
[11:17] <ik5pvx> I guess no serial console and no sysrq support then
[11:18] <fabbione> sysrq should be there
[11:20] <ik5pvx> ok
[11:20] <ik5pvx> I'll figure it out later then
[11:22] <ik5pvx> another program that I miss: traceroute-nanog
[11:24] <SteveA> fabbione: I'm waiting approval to join the sounder list.  Can you send me a copy of your message?
[11:24] <fabbione> SteveA: haven't written it yet.
[11:24] <fabbione> SteveA: basically you copy the entire oops in a file
[11:24] <fabbione> and pass it to ksymoops
[11:25] <fabbione> it will generate some output that will tell more or less what is wrong, where
[11:26] <SteveA> ok.  I was hoping the photos would show enough to get the text of the oops...
[11:26] <SteveA> but a couple of them are too blurred
[11:30] <fabbione> SteveA: apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.7 && cd /usr/src && tar jxvfp kernel-source-2.6.7.tar.bz2 && cd kernel-source-2.6.7/Documentation
[11:31] <fabbione> according to your experience read: BUG-HUNTING and oops-tracing.txt
[11:31] <fabbione> (ps it's not a RTFM, but it will take me sometime to make it simpler to understand for everybody)
[11:31] <fabbione> in the meanwhile you know what to do if it happens again
[11:31] <SteveA> ok, thanks
[11:38] <rburton> yay uptime of 13 minutes and hald is dead already
[11:41] <seb128> hum, I would say you have a problem with hald :/
[11:43] <thom> Keybuk: see Seth's post about NetworkManager on ddl?
[11:44] <Keybuk> yeah
[11:45] <Keybuk> I'm quite amused by the sudden "oh fuck, we were working on one of those too" type posts flurrying to d-d-l atm
[11:45] <Keybuk> proof, if it were needed, that "release early and often" is always better than "don't release until its finished"
[11:46] <thom> yeah
[11:46] <Gman> apparently a few redhat feathers were ruffled
[11:47] <Gman> because they explicitly asked rml to look at it numerous times
[11:49] <Keybuk> rh haven't released any source yet though?
[11:49] <Keybuk> or is it in gnome cvs?
[11:50] <Gman> yeah, it's in gnome cvs
[11:54] <Keybuk> heh, mjg59 is *fast* ... less than 30 minutes after it was announced he had Debian support in <g>
[11:55] <mjg59> NetManager is far more interesting, but netapplet is far cuter
[11:56] <Gman> that's wrong.
[11:56] <Gman> however cute it might look
[11:57] <thom> mjg59: you have debian support for network manager? where? :-)
[11:57] <Gman> [which is pretty standard for ximianites] 
[11:57] <mjg59> thom: Should be in CVS
[11:58] <mjg59> I sent patches to Dan
[11:59] <mjg59> Weirdly, the only thing of interest that the netapplet applet does is pop up a menu
[11:59] <mjg59> It'd be trivial to just embed that in the netstatus app
[11:59] <Gman> does debian have hal/dbus?
[11:59] <mjg59> Yes
[11:59] <Gman> sweet
[12:00] <mjg59> Ought to be shipping with them next month, along with Mono
[12:00] <Keybuk> the only annoying thing about NetworkManager is it doesn't automatically associate with wireless networks :-/
[12:00] <mjg59> Yeah
[12:00] <Gman> mono on debian?
[12:00] <Gman> brr
[12:00] <Gman> :)
[12:00] <mjg59> Haha
[12:00] <mjg59> We can ship Mono, we can't ship Sun's Java
[12:01] <Gman> yeah
[12:01] <Gman> well
[12:01] <Gman> see
[12:01] <Gman> yeah
[12:01] <Gman> nevermind
[12:01] <Gman> :)
[12:03] <Gman> why?
[12:03] <Keybuk> sixth monthly release process *bites* :p  "not fast enough, you're in the next release"
[12:04] <Keybuk> Jeff can be evil
[12:04] <Gman> fascist
[12:05] <Keybuk> :o)  I have a signed copy of Edd's book to play with, and a crusty Mono! <g>
[12:08] <seb128> has somebody planned a openoffice upload soon ?
[12:08] <seb128> we need to update the desktop files, but uploading only for this ...
[12:10] <thom> i think you're gonna have to do it
[12:10] <thom> it's not like we're stretched for build resources :-)
[12:11] <seb128> he he
[01:39] <jdub> Keybuk: mono 1.0? dude, that's going to be a barrel of laughs for totally non-release related reasons during hoary
[01:39] <Keybuk> oh?
[01:39] <jdub> every time i say mono, eyebrows are raised
[01:40] <Keybuk> oh aye, whose?
[01:40] <jdub> mark's, elmo's, etc.
[01:40] <Keybuk> heh
[01:41] <Keybuk> there's certainly a prickly legal fence hear it
[01:41] <Gman> heh
[01:42] <jdub> Keybuk: read bryan clark's entry about NetworkManager?
[01:42] <Keybuk> yeah I did
[01:44] <Keybuk> looked kinda cute; won't compile on warty though *sulk*
[01:44] <jdub> oh no
[01:44] <jdub> dude
[01:45] <jdub> you said kthxbye on your blog
[01:45] <thom> gack. thunderbird build-deps on csh
[01:45] <thom> oh the horror
[01:45] <Keybuk> jdub: there was an accompanying IRC conversation to that one <g>
[01:46] <jdub> weird reading joey's entries with long-hair context, and having met him now without it
[01:51] <jdub> man, catching up on mail this time is horrendous
[01:51] <jdub> also, it's 9pm, and i'm waking up :|
[01:51] <Keybuk> jet lag?
[01:51] <jdub> timezone fuckage thus far
[01:51] <jdub> jetlag will come later ;)
[01:52] <seb128> hey jdub 
[01:52] <jdub> yo seb!
[01:52] <Keybuk> what timezone fuckage?  isn't 9pm about your usual time for getting up? :p
[01:54] <rburton> yo jdub!
[01:55] <jdub> hey rburton 
[01:56] <jdub> whoa, paul cooper is testing on a superdooper new imac
[01:56] <jdub> yum
[01:56] <jdub> rburton: so i saw your email with the mockup at the airport, but it hasn't appeared now that i've pulled my mail :|
[01:56] <jdub> oh
[01:56] <jdub> shit
[01:57] <jdub> maybe i've flushed stuff without collecting it all... hrm.
[01:57] <jdub> anyway, could you resend?
[01:57] <jdub> :)
[02:06] <rburton> sure
[02:06] <rburton> (muppet) 
[02:06] <rburton> ;)
[02:07] <fabbione> hey rburton 
[02:07] <rburton> hi fabbione
[02:07] <fabbione> did you get my comment on the mouse speed?
[02:07] <rburton> yeah
[02:07] <fabbione> comment+s
[02:07] <rburton> i'll try after lunch
[02:07] <fabbione> great!
[02:08] <rburton> jdub: i've got a better one now too, give me a minute
[02:11] <jdub> hrm, got a copy of fedora handy?
[02:12] <jdub> or RH somethingorother?
[02:12] <Keybuk> there's one on little
[02:12] <jdub> no, a running copy :)
[02:12] <Keybuk> oh, no
[02:12] <jdub> you're not near ross anyway :)
[02:13] <rburton> jdub: we've got rh9 installed on most desktops. you want me to look at up2date, right?
[02:13] <jdub> i guess a sshot will do; Gman: could you take a shot of each page of the app install/remove thingy?
[02:13] <Gman> oh
[02:13] <Gman> no
[02:13] <jdub> rburton: aha! no, the gui thingy
[02:13] <jdub> ahr
[02:14] <Gman> i have redhat 8 screenies for all their system tools
[02:14] <rburton> whats it called?
[02:14] <jdub> rburton: it's more wizardy
[02:14] <jdub> erm
[02:14] <jdub> dunno, innit in the menu?
[02:14] <rburton> aha
[02:14] <rburton> redhat-config-packages
[02:14] <rburton> hm, maybe not
[02:14] <rburton> this isn't wizardy
[02:15] <Gman> yeah it is
[02:15] <Gman> well, it's using GnomeDruid
[02:15] <jdub> there's like one page of categories
[02:16] <jdub> then a page of apps under it
[02:16] <Gman> i can send you a screenie of that
[02:16] <jdub> with checkboxes
[02:16] <rburton> yeah, i've got that
[02:16] <rburton> Editors, Graphical Internet, etc with Details buttons
[02:16] <rburton> which leads to a list of packages with check boxes
[02:22] <jdub> heh, i like it how jody still brings up random things that debian has done...
[02:23] <jdub> resolvconf in this case
[02:24] <Gman> that's cause he is forced to run suse by his evil company
[02:24] <Gman> just like me
[02:25] <mjg59> Gman: You're not being recruited, are you?
[02:25] <Gman> recruited by novell? hah, no
[02:25] <jdub> rburton: so the first page is okayish
[02:25] <jdub> rburton: we can do a whole load better on the second page (icons, translated descriptions)
[02:26] <jdub> rburton: but that's the kind of thing i was thinking about
[02:26] <rburton> is this the redhat-config-packages i found in rh9?
[02:26] <jdub> rburton: (a single big treeview would get very scary, very quickly)
[02:26] <rburton> yeah, i guess so
[02:26] <jdub> Gman: can i forward to rburton ?
[02:26] <Gman> shit yeah
[02:26] <Gman> jdub, hrm, maybe i should send you this big doc
[02:27] <Gman> i'll put it up on w.g.o
[02:27] <Gman> i think it might be of use to you guys
[02:31] <Gman> in terms of sys config tools
[02:38] <jdub> hrm
[02:38] <jdub> ERROR: /etc/power/pmcs-pbbuttonsd doesn't exist.
[02:38] <jdub> (on trying to start pbbuttonsd manually)
[02:39] <thom> oh, right. so you're prepared to make your ibook work, but not make tmp dirs work right ;P
[02:40] <jdub> i haven't been using pbbuttonsd until now
[02:40] <thom> fascist
[02:42] <jdub> thom: do you know what that file is?
[02:44] <jdub> ahr, referred to in the conf file
[02:44] <jdub> Script_PMCS
[02:44] <thom> should be in the pbbuttonsd package
[02:45] <jdub> (this is the version in unstable, btw, so that may be bollocksed)
[02:45] <Keybuk> ok, my computer is ganging up on me now
[02:46] <jdub> sounds kinky
[02:46] <Keybuk> not only did it decide I needed a Typing Break, but Rhythmbox decided the track I would listen to during it was the Macarena
[02:46] <jdub> haha
[02:46] <thom> BWAHAHA
[02:46] <thom> you deserve it
[02:46] <thom> i *hate* graphical mail clients
[02:46] <Mithrandir> thom: s/graphical//
[02:46] <Mithrandir> they all suck.
[02:47] <fabbione> Mithrandir
[02:47] <fabbione> you are still in time to write one from scratch ;)
[02:47] <rburton> Keybuk:  and this is why i turn on skip break
[02:47] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I will, I think
[02:48] <Keybuk> rburton: I had it on, but I was skipping breaks too much
[02:48] <fabbione> Mithrandir: we still have the BTS via IMAP access :-)
[02:48] <Keybuk> so I decided to discipline myself and turn it off
[02:48] <Mithrandir> fabbione: right, I have forgotten about that.  I need to get mark to fund some of my crackier ideas.
[02:49] <Mithrandir> everybody know typing breaks are for the weak anyhow.
[02:49] <thom> Mithrandir: chunderbird is my least favourite so far, especially now that mutt imap doesn't suck
[02:49] <fabbione> i would hate a popup that tells me to take a break
[02:50] <mjg59> I have working wrists, so don't need one
[02:50] <Mithrandir> thom: chunderbird? you mean thunderbird?  and you have applied the imap header caching patch and so on?
[02:50] <mjg59> Unlike all these people with WEAK, FEEBLE wrists
[02:50] <thom> Mithrandir: i have the imap header caching patch in mutt, yeah
[02:50] <mjg59> Sounder 8 isn't going to be out by Sunday, is it?
[02:50] <fabbione> 1 N33D N0 571NKY BR34K5 'C4U53 1 4M L337
[02:50] <thom> and yes, i mean thunderbird
[02:51] <Mithrandir> mjg59: I've been typing on keyboards for somewhere in the range of twenty years.. if I were to get RSI, I would have had it as a ten-year old.
[02:52] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: I thought the same, but in the few weeks I've been running with it on, I've noticed my wrists feel much happier
[02:52] <Keybuk> especially at the gym, they don't ache as much with the weights
[02:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I don't go to the gym.. I climb a bit, though.  No wrist pain.
[02:54] <fabbione> isn't #305 fixed?
[03:20] <thom> aiiie, and chunderbird defaults to fucking HTML email by default
[03:21] <jdub> haw haw
[03:22] <jdub> thom: the one in warty has pmcs-*
[03:22] <thom> you should be running warty then, shouldn't you :p
[03:23] <jdub> currently on a separate partition on my ibook
[03:23] <jdub> resyncing /home atm
[03:24] <thom> right, that's enough of thunderbird
[03:24] <thom> POS
[03:24] <jdub> you trying out GUI clients?
[03:25] <thom> no, testing that moz-* can get the security fixes without breakage
[03:25] <jdub> moz is so much fear when it comes to security fixes over long periods of time
[03:25] <jdub> "API? Was ist das?"
[03:26] <thom> no no "API? Yes, we like them. have 15 more!"
[03:27] <jdub> why do we have smp kernels by default on ppc? :)
[03:29] <Keybuk> ok, cups is my new best friend
[03:29] <Keybuk> it's gone from "I hate it and uninstall it" to "ooh, sexy"
[03:29] <thom> cups of tea? 
[03:29] <Keybuk> printer stuff
[03:30] <thom> yes yes
[03:31] <dieman_> *yawn*
[03:31] <dieman_> on my way into work
[04:11] <mdz> morning
[04:12] <jdub> yo mdz, bdale 
[04:13] <bdale> dudes
[04:14] <Keybuk> 'sup
[04:16] <thom> hey dudes
[04:25] <thom> man, working with mozilla is made so much harder by the fact the horrible thing is 40MB of source
[04:26] <fabbione> hey bdale
[04:35] <jdub> hrm
[04:35] <jdub> so i've made /dev/pmu world-writable (icky, only for now)
[04:35] <jdub> and battstat is still nfi
[04:36] <bdale> mind-numbing executive teleconferences...
[04:37] <thom> jdub: yeah, you need the apm emulation loaded
[04:38] <jdub> oh, bong
[04:38] <jdub> heh
[04:39] <jdub> when i tried that earlier tonight, i was still running sid (with my own kernel)
[04:39] <jdub> thanks 8)
[04:45] <fabbione> amazing...
[04:45] <fabbione> this laptop is so oooold
[04:46] <Kamion> hm, there isn't one already?
[04:46] <fabbione> bdale: there is one
[04:46] <Kamion> no, there isn't
[04:46] <fabbione> oh LIVEcd
[04:46] <Kamion> bdale: just added one now
[04:47] <bdale> Kamion: cool.  thanks.  ever so much easier to script the rsync this way...  ;-)
[04:48] <Kamion> can't guarantee that the filename won't change, though ... livecds aren't really my bailiwick as such
[04:49] <bdale> no worries
[04:50] <bdale> I've got lots of disk space, and I don't really care how long the T1 is busy when I manually kick off a sync script like this... what I mostly care about is that when it's done, I've got the freshest bits on the local side of the pipe.
[04:50] <Kamion> does anyone here have a Macintosh system with an Airport card?
[04:50] <jdub> yes
[04:50] <Kamion> jdub: could you run "cat /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/radio/name" for me, please?
[04:51] <jdub> willow:~# "cat /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/radio/name"
[04:51] <jdub> -su: cat /proc/device-tree/pci@f2000000/mac-io@17/radio/name: No such file or directory
[04:51] <jdub> 
[04:51] <Kamion> without the double quotes
[04:51] <jdub> good lord, how did i manage that?
[04:51] <jdub> output is "radio"
[04:51] <Kamion> excellent, thanks
[04:52] <Kamion> hm, does /proc/device-tree`cat /proc/device-tree/aliases/mac-io`/bmac/name happen to exist too?
[04:53] <jdub> nup
[04:53] <fabbione> Kamion: we need to take a look to base-config when you have time
[04:54] <fabbione> Kamion: we need to add apt lines for CD install.
[04:54] <fabbione> and perhaps ask if they want to enable "universe"
[04:54] <fabbione> but only after the desktop installation
[04:54] <fabbione> (at least for how i see it)
[04:54] <Kamion> jdub: ah well, can't have everything
[04:55] <jdub> cat /proc/device-tree/pci\@f2000000/ has no bmac
[04:55] <jdub> s/cat //
[04:55] <Kamion> fabbione: agreed, will look at it once I've finished this
[04:55] <Kamion> jdub: fair enough, might be more of an oldworld thing
[04:55] <jdub> it has mac-io
[04:56] <Kamion> bmac is a specific Ethernet card, it's not entirely unexpected that you don't have it
[04:56] <Kamion> every Mac should have mac-io as far as I know
[04:56] <jdub> yeah, i have airport and sungem
[04:56] <jdub> the gmac driver also works
[04:56] <jdub> but is not in fashion any more
[04:56] <Kamion> I'd like to make discover walk it, or be hotpluggable, but for now I'm writing a cheesy discover-mac-io.sh in ddetect
[04:56] <Kamion> does d-i detect all of that?
[04:57] <jdub> from memory, yeah
[04:57] <Kamion> I think sungem might show up on the PCI bus
[04:57] <jdub> yeah:
[04:57] <jdub> 0002:02:0f.0 Class ffff: Apple Computer Inc. UniNorth GMAC (Sun GEM) (rev ff)
[04:58] <jdub> once i have shifted everything off my old sid partition, i'll start doing random installs on it
[04:58] <fabbione> Kamion: if we are not in any rush i can do it tomorrow. we can just reuse contrib for universe e non-free for restriceted, and change security according to the last Bof with mdz
[04:58] <jdub> but can't do those atm ;)
[04:59] <Kamion> fabbione: sure
[04:59] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. i take the task than.
[04:59] <jdub> Kamion: are the latest dailies package sorted? (or should i wait before downloading, to avoid rsync hell)?
[04:59] <fabbione> also because we need the proper infrastructure in place to add restriced and security
[04:59] <thom> Kamion: any thoughts on what can be done about APIC? even to the extent of user education so they know what to try if they do get random freezes?
[05:00] <Kamion> jdub: should be
[05:00] <Kamion> jdub: rsync actually seems to deal with the sorting fairly reasonably
[05:00] <Kamion> thom: it's in the help screens; beyond that I honestly don't know
[05:01] <jdub> heh, i don't want to add universe just to install spamassassin ;)
[05:06] <mdz> Kamion: ooh, we have a sorted daily now?
[05:07] <thom> Kamion: it's not really documented that apic is what they want, though?
[05:09] <Kamion> mdz: for a while ...
[05:09] <Kamion> mdz: I was wondering if sorting the directory inodes with the files they contain would help too - they're all at the start at the moment
[05:17] <thom> mdz: -firefox building now
[05:18] <fabbione> FUCK
[05:18] <fabbione> they stolen my car!
[05:18] <fabbione> FUCK
[05:18] <thom> dude, no way :(
[05:18] <jdub> thom: are we taking latest firefox, or patching existing version?
[05:18] <jdub> fabbione: !!!
[05:18] <thom> jdub: the latter
[05:19] <jdub> i'm not sure that's the right thing to do
[05:19] <seb128> jdub: gnomedb should be 1.1.x since it's a GNOME part, right ?
[05:19] <jdub> seb128: not a high priority part, no
[05:20] <thom> jdub: given the changes between unstable and warty, it's the only thing to do
[05:20] <jdub> thom, mdz: surely we should be pulling latest firefox in with gnome
[05:20] <seb128> ok, so we stay with 1.0.x ?
[05:20] <jdub> seb128: yeah, preferably (it's stable, 1.1 isn't)
[05:20] <seb128> gnomedb has some bad bugs, but not sure 1.1 is better ...
[05:20] <mdz> jdub: we should?
[05:20] <mdz> so far, firefox 0.9 has been a debacle in unstable
[05:21] <jdub> hrm, was working okay for me before
[05:21] <mdz> I've NOTWARTY'd a dozen or so RC bugs in it
[05:21] <jdub> well
[05:21] <jdub> we have the firefox vs. epiphany choice
[05:22] <jdub> if we choose firefox, i'd prefer to sync to the latest versoins
[05:22] <thom> and it's just changed (again) to not use xvfb in the postinst
[05:22] <thom> so that's gonna take a long time to settle out, again
[05:22] <jdub> (0.8 is horrific)
[05:22] <mdz> jdub: new upstream versions? this late in the game?
[05:22] <mdz> I don't find 0.8 horrific at all
[05:23] <jdub> in terms of being a good gnome browser, 0.8 is not the right choice
[05:23] <rburton> ephy!
[05:23] <jdub> so, if that's the case, perhaps we should stick with ephy for this release
[05:23] <jdub> this is not an ephy vs. firefox debate
[05:23] <mdz> I'd rather the better browser than the better gnome browser
[05:24] <jdub> it's a "what do we do now?" debate
[05:24] <jdub> mdz: those aren't very indistinguishable
[05:24] <jdub> firefox 0.8 does not fit in well with the desktop
[05:25] <jdub> firefox 1.0 will be much better in that regard (as you can see with 0.9)
[05:25] <mdz> firefox 1.0 will not make Warty
[05:26] <jdub> so, the firefox switch was made in context of having the latest version we could in it
[05:26] <jdub> but if we can't do that, we should not make the switch
[05:27] <mdz> that assumption was not made clear at the time the decision was made
[05:27] <mdz> that said, I'm open to new firefox
[05:28] <mdz> considering that we need the fixes for the latest batch of mozilla deluxe vulnerabilities
[05:28] <thom> jdub: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/m/mozilla-firefox/mozilla-firefox_0.9.3-2.2/changelog
[05:29] <thom> mdz: the two current in our bugzilla both appear to backport cleanly, patched ver is building now *shrug*
[05:29] <mdz> thom: are we not affected by the other 5 in debbugs?
[05:29] <mdz> I've lost track
[05:33] <thom> ber, they've changed api anyway. that backport just blew up
[05:34] <jdub> erk ;)
[05:35] <thom> mdz: it scares me, but looking at the amount of work it'll take to beat these patches into shape, and the fact that backports of the rest are gonna get harder and harder, we might have to go for it. i really don't want to tho
[05:36] <jdub> thom: don't want to sync with firefox?
[05:37] <thom> mdz: means we need to pull libcairo  into supported from universe
[05:37] <thom> jdub: yeah
[05:37] <ik5pvx> who moderates the mailing list ?
[05:38] <jdub> ik5pvx: moi
[05:40] <mdz> none of the mailing lists are moderated, are they?
[05:40] <thom> sounder is
[05:40] <ik5pvx> well, they're restricted to subscribed, and I made a mistake that resulted in moderation
[05:40] <mdz> even for members?
[05:40] <mdz> ah
[05:44] <jdub> usplash for hoary -> yay!
[05:50] <mdz> Kamion: what would be a safe time of day to automatically rsync the current daily iso?
[05:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think you can ever get a corrupted image by rsyncing at the wrong time.
[05:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: probably not, but I could get yesterday's :-)
[05:52] <mdz> are the timestamps in rsync file listings local, remote or UTC?
[05:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: well, true. :)
[06:02] <mdz> thom: mozilla is not known for having a sane approach to security
[06:02] <mdz> it's great that they file patches in bugzilla and everything
[06:03] <mdz> but they're not particularly useful when you basically have to upgrade to the latest release to apply them anyway
[06:03] <thom> yeah
[06:03] <thom> i'm beginning to realise this
[06:04] <jdub> hrm, any other changes we should make to pbbuttonsd defaults?
[06:04] <jdub> onAC_coversleep     = yes
[06:04] <jdub> TPMode              = notap
[06:07] <Kamion> mdz: the dailies are always finished by 8:45 UTC, and almost always finished by 7:30 UTC; I don't know what the two freak late ones were about
[06:07] <Kamion> 9:00 UTC should be cast-iron
[06:09] <jdub> :o
[06:09] <jdub> lbdb!
[06:09] <jdub> not in supported!
[06:09] <jdub> fear!
[06:14] <sladen> jdub: does make things easier...
[06:16] <jdub> aes: would've been faster if firefox hadn't crashed ;)
[06:16] <aes> bwahaha ;)
[06:16] <aes> "Message too big." Honestly.
[06:22] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[06:22] <fabbione> bah
[06:22] <fabbione> let's hope they will never find the car again
[06:23] <mdz> fabbione: it is covered by your insurance?
[06:23] <fabbione> becuase if they will find trashed is gonna be worst
[06:23] <fabbione> mdz: yes
[06:23] <fabbione> mdz: but it's really not the right time :/
[06:23] <fabbione> mdz: with a changing house upcoming in 3 weeks
[06:23] <mdz> fabbione: you will be moving into your house soon?
[06:23] <mdz> yuck
[06:23] <fabbione> yes
[06:23] <fabbione> it's gonna suck like never
[06:24] <fabbione> aes: thanks a lot for the report btw
[06:25] <fabbione> aes: the problem seems to be a regexpr in xresprobe for the resolution. I already fixed in my trunk the synaptic stuff.
[06:38] <mdz> Kamion: with the sorted CD, it seems to do quite well on source packages with multiple binaries, but it still seems to seek every time it has to read a new directory
[06:40] <Kamion> mdz: ok, sounds like I'll have to twiddle that a bit; I can probably sort directories with the .debs they contain relatively easily
[06:40] <mdz> really?  that'd be excellent
[06:40] <Kamion> (I half-expected that to be honest, but wasn't sure)
[06:40] <mdz> I was afraid the directories were all at the beginning or something
[06:40] <Kamion> yes, they are at the moment, but don't have to be
[06:41] <Kamion> I'd been hoping the kernel would be clever and cache them
[06:41] <mdz> yeah
[06:41] <mdz> I think it probably needs hdparm read-ahead magic for that
[06:42] <Kamion> oooooh
[06:42] <Kamion> that makes sense
[06:49] <jdub> whole batch of new sounders invited :)
[06:58] <mdz> so, opinions on vim?
[06:58] <mdz> we should drop one of vim or vim-python
[07:00] <mdz> I don't see why there isn't an all-inclusive vim build
[07:01] <mdz> including -python, -perl, -tcl, and whatever other crack there is
[07:02] <jdub> sounds like vim-python would be the one for us, surely?
[07:02] <jdub> (not that i actually take advantage of that, i just use vim)
[07:02] <mdz> depends on how you sift the crack
[07:02] <mdz> I don't think that vim-python really fits the python-extensibility idea
[07:03] <mdz> scripting the gimp is a much different thing than scripting vi
[07:04] <mdz> that, and the packaging is a bit of a mess
[07:04] <mdz> vim-python depends: vim and then diverts /usr/bin/ivm
[07:04] <mdz> s/ivm/vim/
[07:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: vim-crack ?
[07:05] <jdub> ugh, bong
[07:07] <mdz> has anyone tracked down why cupsd doesn't start correctly in a fresh warty install?
[07:08] <mdz> it seems to be started OK, and then shut down for some reason
[07:08] <mdz> I [26/Aug/2004:09:54:28 -0700]  Full reload complete.
[07:08] <mdz> I [26/Aug/2004:09:57:00 -0700]  Scheduler shutting down normally.
[07:09] <lucas_> hi all
[07:09] <jdub> hi
[07:09] <crevette> hi btw
[07:10] <lucas_> re
[07:10] <lucas_> randomly typing on the keyboard definitely gives random results
[07:12] <mdz> jdub: are you home now?
[07:12] <jdub> yeah
[07:21] <aes> fabbione: rock :) thanks
[07:39] <Keybuk> mdz: #268154, yeah, reassign that bug one more time! <g>
[07:42] <jdub> erm
[07:42] <jdub> hrm
[07:43] <jdub> so i need to change a binary file in an upload :)
[07:43] <jdub> is there actually a sane way to do that?
[07:44] <Keybuk> jdub: explain ?
[07:44] <jdub> i have new png files for the wireless applet
[07:45] <Keybuk> heh
[07:45] <Keybuk> oh, man
[07:45] <justdave> oh, I found that screen dimming I was complaining about.  pbbuttonsd controls that, too.
[07:46] <justdave> It apparently only does it when you're running on battery power, by default.
[07:46] <jdub> it dims automagically or something?
[07:46] <Keybuk> jdub: I guess you could ship the new png in the debian/ directory and copy them over in your rules
[07:47] <Keybuk> though I have a hunch dpkg-source won't let you do that either
[07:47] <jdub> Keybuk: but debian/ is also part of diff.gz...
[07:48] <jdub> a horrible way to do it would be uuencoding the images and decoding them before building :)
[07:48] <Keybuk> XPM! :o)
[07:48] <jdub> justdave: do you have a recommended change to the defaults?
[07:48] <mdz> Keybuk: for some reason, deity@ doesn't seem to get notification when a bug is reassigned
[07:48] <justdave> jdub: yeah, it dims automatically if you're idle for 60 seconds.
[07:48] <jdub> justdave: does that suck?
[07:49] <justdave> I think that's a fine idea when you're on battery
[07:49] <justdave> but the default timeout probably should be a little longer.
[07:49] <Keybuk> mdz: it so did :p
[07:49] <justdave> (say 5 minutes instead of 1)
[07:49] <mdz> Keybuk: well, it wasn't in my mailbox, and the bug report was
[07:49] <jdub> anyone else have thoughts on pbbuttonsd dimming?
[07:49] <mdz> maybe it got mis-sorted
[07:50] <justdave> I actually wouldn't care what the default was if there was an obvious way to change the setting from the GUI
[07:50] <justdave> and 1 minute will save more battery than 5 minutes :)
[07:51] <jdub> mm, see, it's kinda something that xscreensaver should do
[07:51] <jdub> but it doesn't do dimming as yet
[07:52] <justdave> xscreensaver has suspend and poweroff functions for energystar-compliant monitors...
[07:52] <justdave> seems like "dim" would be equivalent to suspend when you're talking about an LCD panel.
[07:53] <jdub> naw, dim is a state before that
[07:53] <jdub> which is not covered by xscreensaver
[07:53] <Kamion> jdub: uuencode is pretty much the standard way to do that, actually
[07:53] <mdz> s/standard/& awful/
[07:53] <jdub> Kamion: that's unfortunate. :|
[07:54] <jdub> Keybuk: you can fix this for the common people, dude! multiple tarballs in source!
[07:54] <jdub> i'm tempted to disable dimming entirely, given that you can't futz with it from the ui
[07:54] <Keybuk> jdub: NOTWARTY, HTH, HAND, KTHXBYE <g>
[07:54] <Kamion> (yes, it sucks, but)
[07:54] <jdub> heh
[07:54] <jdub> Kamion: in which case, what's our favourite decoder?
[07:55] <jdub> see, we also have:
[07:55] <jdub> onBattery_Tsleep    = 3000  ; time in 1/10s
[07:55] <jdub> onBattery_Tdim      = 600   ; time in 1/10s
[07:55] <jdub> 
[07:56] <jdub> i'm tempted to turn both of those off
[07:56] <jdub> anyoneanyonebueller?
[07:56] <Keybuk> jdub: everyone else had their macs stolen, so can't really comment
[07:56] <jdub> :|
[07:57] <Kamion> jdub: uudecode's in sharutils isn't it?
[07:57] <Kamion> ISTR build-depending on that in various places
[07:58] <jdub> ja
[07:58] <jdub> man, pbbuttonsd has net and cpu load monitoring
[07:58] <jdub> so it doesn't sleep
[07:58] <jdub> when you're doing stuff
[07:58] <jdub> that's kinda freaky
[07:59] <jdub> okay, i'm turning all mysterious sleeping and dimming off
[08:10] <justdave> hmm, that was fun (not)
[08:10] <justdave> it went to sleep on me
[08:10] <HcE> hihi
[08:10] <justdave> when I woke it up, it hung
[08:10] <HcE> fg <process>?
[08:10] <HcE> hmm
[08:10] <justdave> some message about could not determine if the cpufreq matched what the core thought it was
[08:11] <HcE> laptop?
[08:11] <justdave> yess
[08:11] <HcE> never had it here
[08:11] <Mithrandir> HcE: you're not using a ibook. :P
[08:11] <HcE> close your eyes and hope it goes away ;)
[08:11] <HcE> nope
[08:11] <Mithrandir> s/\ba\b/an/
[08:14] <justdave> ok, time to eat.
[08:24] <Keybuk> I get a message like that on the HP
[08:24] <Keybuk> usually means that the CPU wasn't at full speed when it switched back to the performance governor
[08:28] <jdub> they're a million times better than the current ones
[08:41] <mdz> thom: ping?
[09:21] <mdz> lamont: ping?
[09:22] <lamont> yo
[09:27] <Keybuk> ooh!  Crowded Bob!  Tune!   ,
[09:27] <Keybuk>                          _o/
[09:38] <lamont> oops.  bug to debian without a Package: header... Guess I'll have to reassing that shortly.
[09:40] <jdub> oof, yeah, that pbbuttonsd fading is really annoying
[10:20] <thom> yo?
[10:22] <thom> mdz: yo?
[10:23] <mdz> thom: damn if I remember...mozilla?
[10:24] <thom> mdz: 0.9 builds at least under warty
[10:24] <thom> i just got back from making sure daniels left the country, so i'll test now
[10:29] <Keybuk> heh, he didn't stay for Fabric?
[10:31] <thom> nup
[10:32] <thom> he needs to buy a laptop so he's kinda broke
[10:32] <thom> he's looking forward to being rounded up for the good of humanity
[10:37] <Keybuk> oh, what did he do to his?
[10:37] <Keybuk> rounded up?
[10:40] <thom> reference to you/ross on X40s
[10:40] <thom> his powersupply has crashed and burnt, literally
[10:46] <Keybuk> ahh
[10:46] <Keybuk> the only thing I have against the X40 really is the lack of touchpad
[10:46] <Keybuk> and that they're evil and out to take over the world, obviously
[10:48] <thom> i guess some obstreperous people may consider that a drawback
[10:50] <Mithrandir> the taking over the world thing or the touchpad thing?
[10:50] <Mithrandir> I'm very happy it doesn't have touchpad.
[10:51] <thom> the former
[10:51] <thom> the latter is definitely a good thing
[10:51] <Mithrandir> I find taking over the world generally a good thing.
[10:54] <lamont> mdz?
[10:55] <mdz> lamont: ?
[10:55] <mdz> damn, you answered back when I remembered what I wanted, but I didn't see it
[10:55] <lamont> libsasl2 - it wasn't clear what the maintainer had done, I'll dig into it more now.
[10:55] <mdz> lamont: what's the latest on tetex?
[10:56] <mdz> lamont: whatever I was asking about before is probably in your bugzilla list, too, if that wasn't it
[10:56] <mdz> I've just made a pass over all warty RC bugs
[10:57] <lamont> mdz: probably - need to make yet another pass with out the "not now" sighing noises, I guess.
[11:04] <thom> mdz: so firefox 0.9.3 builds and runs just fine, with the addition of libcairo1 and dependents to supported
[11:04] <lamont> mdz: current tetex-status is: sync pending, then I need to do an upload, and then we should be able to close the lot of them.
[09:37] <jdub> hrm aptitude install "~tdesktop" doesn't take Provides into account
[09:37] <jdub> it really wants to install packages that are already provided for ;)
[09:37] <Mithrandir> it looks at Task headers
[09:37] <Mithrandir> iirc
[10:37] <seb128> morning
[10:59] <fabbione> hey guys
[10:59] <fabbione> anybody is a "synaptic mouse driver" expert?
[11:25] <Mithrandir> WTF?
[11:26] <Mithrandir> gnome-cups-icon is using 617M virt mem,  410 RSS..
[11:26] <rburton> yay someone who can replicate the bug!
[11:26] <rburton> if you can find the cause (my money is on a cups leak) then please tell me/cups maintainers
[11:27] <rburton> Mithrandir: a valgrind run of g-c-i would be a good start. the only valgrind run i've seen put the leak in "???" which doesn't really help
[11:28] <Mithrandir> I wondered why my P4 2.4GHz was _dog_ slow
[11:29] <Mithrandir> seems like g-c-i went away now, as it couldn't contact the cups server.
[11:29] <rburton> hm
[11:30] <rburton> if it can't find the cups server it quits after like 10 seconds
[11:30] <rburton> the leak should only occur if you have a running cupsd
[11:30] <Mithrandir> rebooting to see if I can reproduce it
[11:31] <rburton> thanks
[11:32] <Mithrandir> it takes a while to grow to those proportions, it seems, though
[11:32] <rburton> yes, but its a slow and gradual leak
[11:32] <rburton> you should be able to notice it straight away (so people tell me)
[11:32] <Mithrandir> how does it handle the case of cupsd running, g-c-i starting and being happy, cupsd goes away?
[11:33] <rburton> hm, not sure
[11:35] <Mithrandir> about 12k/5 secs
[11:36] <rburton> could you valgrind it?
[11:36] <rburton> you'll need to increase the call depth and do --alignment 8
[11:36] <rburton> Mithrandir: and of course remove it from the session first otherwise you won't be able to restart it in valgrind
[11:39] <Mithrandir> just let it run for a little while, then kill it?
[11:40] <rburton> yeah
[11:40] <rburton> ooh, hang on
[11:40] <rburton> if its the same bug is saw, you'll need to --show-reachable
[11:40] <rburton> as something still has a reference
[11:41] <Mithrandir> my valgrind doesn't seem to have any --show-reachable
[11:41] <Mithrandir> ah
[11:41] <Mithrandir> --show-reachable=yes
[11:42] <Mithrandir> ** (gnome-cups-icon:5201): WARNING **: Extremely strange, strange object directories (0)registered with the activation context
[11:42] <rburton> --alignment=8 --num-callers=10 --leak-check=yes --show-reachable=yes should do the trick
[11:42] <rburton> heh
[11:43] <Mithrandir> how much memory do you want it to leak?
[11:43] <rburton> a meg should be enough to make it very noticable in the valgrind output
[11:43] <rburton> i'm betting its a cups thing
[11:44] <rburton> as g-c-m pokes cups for a status every few seconds
[11:45] <crevette> hello
[11:45] <seb128> hey crevette ;)
[11:46] <crevette> hey hey
[11:48] <Mithrandir> rburton: http://129.241.103.250/~tfheen/gnome-cups-icon.pid5281
[11:48] <Mithrandir> though..:
[11:48] <Mithrandir> ==5281== 270320 bytes in 13770 blocks are still reachable in loss record 147 of 147
[11:48] <Mithrandir> ==5281==    at 0x3C01E31B: malloc (vg_replace_malloc.c:105)
[11:48] <Mithrandir> ==5281==    by 0x3C9FD932: strdup (in /lib/tls/libc-2.3.2.so)
[11:48] <Mithrandir> ==5281==    by 0x39353837: ???
[11:53] <Mithrandir> rburton: http://129.241.103.250/~tfheen/gnome-cups-icon.pid5809
[11:53] <Mithrandir> fwiw, it looks like a gnomeui memory leak
[11:54] <rburton> Mithrandir: can you run it for longer, i think its the cupsLangGet (record 145)
[11:54] <rburton> 147 looks like a one-time call
[11:55] <crevette> did somebody experienced a problem with ubuntu-artwork package during installation ?
[11:55] <rburton> (this is great, thanks)
[11:55] <Mithrandir> rburton: sure.. I'll let it run for ten minutes?
[11:55] <crevette> I installed ubuntu a first time without pb 1 jour ago
[11:55] <Mithrandir> rburton: (or I could run it for a day, if you so prefer..)
[11:55] <seb128> s/jour/day/
[11:56] <rburton> Mithrandir: a few minutes will do
[11:56] <rburton> Mithrandir: let it grow a few meg so the leak is clear
[11:56] <crevette> and now it failed on this package
[11:57] <rburton> Mithrandir: i think i've found the leak
[11:57] <rburton> cupsLangDefault() returns a pointer, but it is never free'd
[11:58] <Mithrandir> rburton: throw a package at me and I'll give it a shot.
[12:00] <rburton> building
[12:02] <seb128> crevette has 2 questions, somebody with some ideas here perhaps ?
[12:03] <Mithrandir> crevette: what error do you get?
[12:03] <seb128> 1- the installation fail on ubuntu-artwork apparently, is there any log at this stade ?
[12:03] <crevette> no root password asked 
[12:03] <crevette> too
[12:03] <fabbione> crevette: no root password is OK
[12:03] <fabbione> crevette: root account is locked
[12:03] <fabbione> and you can use sudo
[12:03] <Mithrandir> fabbione: actually, it's not ok, as gksu will then fail
[12:04] <fabbione> hmmm
[12:04] <fabbione> it was for ik5pvx 
[12:04] <rburton> Mithrandir: email address?
[12:04] <fabbione> crevette: did you use a sounder cd or a daily cd?
[12:04] <crevette> sounder
[12:04] <crevette> cd7
[12:04] <Mithrandir> rburton: please, an URL?
[12:04] <ik5pvx> It's ok so long as I understand that all graphical apps that call gksu will call sudo instead, and I understood it's a known problem being worked on. 
[12:05] <SteveA> UI gripe:  I have gossip in my "desktop session".  I booted up and logged in today, and got a dialog saying "Question: Please enter your password".  There was no indication of which password is required, or that gossip is the application that produced the dialog.  Gossip itself is not visible, except as a small icon in the gnome bar at the top of the screen. 
[12:05] <crevette> ubuntu-artwork didn't failed at my first install 1 hour ago 
[12:05] <rburton> Mithrandir: www.burtonini.com/temp/
[12:05] <SteveA> fabbione: I had the same oops on boot again.  Didn't get time to take notes, but at least it seems like a regular thing ;-)  I'll take notes next time.
[12:06] <crevette> fabbione: Do must I use the daily one ?
[12:06] <Mithrandir> rburton: that's a downgrade, though
[12:06] <ik5pvx> [severely offtopic]  if anyone knows how to tell exim3 and/or gnus to use a particular email address as "from" please contact me privately
[12:06] <rburton> oh arse
[12:06] <Mithrandir> ik5pvx: you can try to grok my gnus setup at http://raw.no/dotfiles/gnus
[12:07] <rburton> Mithrandir: give me another 5
[12:07] <ik5pvx> whatever that means :)
[12:07] <Mithrandir> ik5pvx: grok =~ understand
[12:07] <seb128> rburton: which package ?
[12:08] <Mithrandir> seb128: libgnomecups
[12:08] <rburton> seb128: i finally find someone who can replicate and help debug the leak, and the ubuntu packages are newer than sid :)
[12:08] <seb128> 0.1.10-0ubuntu1 in ubuntu
[12:08] <seb128> 0.1.10-1 in unstable
[12:08] <seb128> let me disagree :)
[12:09] <rburton> 0.1.11-0ubuntu1 in ubuntu
[12:09] <seb128> damn, I've updated in oxford :p
[12:09] <Mithrandir> rburton: seems to leak still
[12:09] <crevette> I will restart my install
[12:10] <seb128> crevette: sorry I've not idea of the problem, and people seems to be more interested by the gnome-cups leak here :)
[12:10] <Mithrandir> though, a fair bit slower.
[12:10] <rburton> Mithrandir: newer debs, try again.
[12:10] <rburton> and another valgrind log would be cool
[12:10] <crevette> seb128: do I must to use the daily cd instaed ?
[12:11] <crevette> seb128: no pb
[12:11] <seb128> crevette: no, sounder 7 should be fine ...
[12:11] <Mithrandir> rburton: ok, running now
[12:11] <crevette> seb128: and about the installer pb we discussed ? did I must report the pb to debian or to bugs.nny.
[12:12] <Mithrandir> rburton: leaks a bit again.
[12:12] <seb128> mention it in the install report you'll do :)
[12:12] <crevette> seb128: I have to make an install report ?
[12:12] <rburton> Mithrandir: but slower? thats a good start :)
[12:12] <crevette> ok
[12:12] <crevette> see U
[12:12] <seb128> crevette: better to do if possible yes
[12:13] <crevette> seb128: oky
[12:13] <Mithrandir> rburton: no, with 1.9-2 it was slower, now it seems about the same speed again
[12:13] <rburton> hm, interesting
[12:13] <Mithrandir> rburton: I'll just let it run for a bit
[12:13] <rburton> so 0.1.11 is worse
[12:13] <Mithrandir> seems like it
[12:15] <Mithrandir> :)
[12:19] <seb128> rburton: why do you "rm -fr docs/reference/html" and --enable-gtk-doc in loudmouth instead of using the html doc ?
[12:20] <rburton> seb128: they used to be out of date
[12:20] <rburton> maybe they are better now
[12:20] <seb128> ok
[12:24] <Mithrandir> rburton: hmm.. might have stabilized itself now.
[12:25] <Mithrandir> rburton: I'll let it run in valgrind for a while and see.
[12:25] <rburton> Mithrandir: ah, great
[12:32] <Mithrandir> is it possible to get tla to shut up?
[12:33] <Mithrandir> I want to run tla update from a cron script, but it's very chatty.
[12:43] <fabbione> crevette: no there is no need to use daily, until you like to see stuff breaking down
[12:44] <fabbione> SteveA: ok.. but please try to do it.
[12:44] <Mithrandir> rburton: ok, I'm happy.  It seems to have stopped leaking.
[12:44] <Mithrandir> rburton: do you want the valgrind log for the last 30 minute run?
[12:45] <rburton> Mithrandir: if it has stopped leaking, don't bother
[12:45] <rburton> Mithrandir: you are a hero
[12:46] <rburton> the first person who can replicate the bug *and* has enough clue to help debug it :)
[12:46] <Mithrandir> heh. :)
[12:46] <seb128> rburton: where was the problem ?
[12:46] <Mithrandir> rburton: thanks a lot for fixing it.
[12:47] <rburton> seb128: cupsLangDefault() returns a pointer which wasn't freed
[12:47] <ik5pvx> ok, let's see if the mailing list likes me now :)
[12:47] <rburton> assuming it is really fixed and not just hiding
[12:49] <seb128> rburton: and that makes a such leak ?
[12:50] <rburton> seb128: many bytes every 5 seconds
[12:51] <seb128> weird
[12:51] <seb128> why it doesn't leak here ?
[12:51] <rburton> no idea
[12:52] <Mithrandir> seb128: what language are you running with?
[12:53] <seb128> french
[12:53] <Mithrandir> is cups translated into that?
[12:54] <seb128> yes
[12:54] <Mithrandir> I'm running with Norwegian, which cups isn't translated into
[12:54] <seb128> oh, no gnome-cups-manager but cups
[12:54] <seb128> good question :)
[12:55] <fabbione> rburton: did you have any time to test the mouse acceleration stuff?
[12:55] <rburton> fabbione: not yet. i'll do it in a minute
[12:55] <Mithrandir> I would guess it checks if lang == null inside the five-second-loop and since it gets set on the first iteration with french, it works.
[12:55] <seb128> yes, probably
[12:56] <Mithrandir> (I haven't looked at the code, so I might be totally wrong)
[12:56] <crevette> hello
[12:56] <crevette> I'ma back from my third install
[12:57] <Kamion> jdub: which packages do you think aptitude -y install ~tdesktop shouldn't have installed? it might be a germinate bug.
[12:59] <fabbione> Kamion: please do not release any Sounder until X ubuntu9 is around
[12:59] <fabbione> there is a bug in 2 preinst scripts that will make everything fail
[12:59] <ik5pvx> is it normal that when I mount a cdrom or an usb disk, a lot of windows open ? like one for each partition mounted
[01:00] <Mithrandir> ik5pvx: that's the default, yes.
[01:01] <Mithrandir> ik5pvx: go to computer -> desktop prefs -> removable storage to change it
[01:01] <ik5pvx> shouldn't it open just the window for the device/partition I've mounted ?
[01:01] <ik5pvx> (of course, i
[01:01] <ik5pvx> (of course, it's not doing it again now that I'm trying to describe this... darn)
[01:02] <Mithrandir> oh, yes, it should only do it for the new partitions
[01:02] <ik5pvx> ok, I'll try to reproduce it again and report back
[01:04] <SteveA> fabbione: did you send the email with brief instructions on what to do?
[01:05] <Mithrandir> SteveA: fabbione had a rm -r /home last night, so I wouldn't count on it.
[01:05] <fabbione> SteveA: no. I have lost the last 3 months of emails yesterday
[01:09] <Kamion> fabbione: there's no release planned until Monday week anyway
[01:10] <fabbione> ok
[01:20] <rburton> seb128: could you update ubuntu's librsvg? i believe there is a new upstream
[01:49] <seb128> rburton: sure
[01:53] <seb128> rburton: [   ]  LATEST-IS-2.7.2       
[01:53] <rburton> hm
[01:54] <rburton> i thought there was a 2.7.9x release
[01:56] <seb128> no on ftp.gnome.org at least
[01:57] <rburton> yeah, so i see
[01:57] <rburton> mr. upstream must have been talking about cvs then
[01:57] <seb128> you're looking for a bug fix ?
[01:59] <rburton> yeah. embeddng pngs are bust with 2.7.2
[02:00] <wally> hai
[02:52] <npmccallum> daniels: you home yet?
[03:01] <__keybuk> it never fails
[03:01] <__keybuk> make dinner, the Engineer turns up
[03:42] <mdz> morning
[03:44] <seb128> hello mdz 
[03:44] <jdub> hey
[03:44] <jdub> Kamion: fam and its libs (which should indeed be installed with the desktop), but i have other packages providing those
[03:46] <Kamion> ah, right. aptitude just installs the packages with the relevant Task: line
[03:48] <jdub> mmm
[03:51] <Kamion> jdub: yow - I echo elmo's objections to going to sleep when the lid is closed on AC
[03:51] <Kamion> considering that my laptop crashes if you try to put it to sleep :-P
[03:52] <fabbione> hey mdz
[03:52] <jdub> Kamion: eek
[03:52] <jdub> hrm
[03:53] <Kamion> don't see why you'd want to sleep on AC anyway?
[03:53] <jdub> consistent "close the lid == sleep"
[03:53] <Kamion> foolish consistency, I think
[03:53] <Kamion> close the lid + on battery == sleep would make more sense
[03:54] <jdub> but why doesn't close+ac also make sense?
[03:54] <jdub> rationalise the inconsistency :)
[03:54] <Kamion> because there's no point going to sleep when you're plugged in?
[03:54] <ik5pvx> close+acl+store_pc_away_while_it's_compiling makes sense ?
[03:55] <Kamion> I often close the lid to get the panel out of my way while I'm doing something else
[03:55] <jdub> ik5pvx: that's something you can configure for, if you have that special need
[03:55] <ik5pvx> kamion's point of getting the panel out of way is a good point too
[03:56] <jdub> these are things you can configure for
[03:56] <jdub> would be nice if we had a clicky-clicky thing for it
[03:56] <jdub> but the common case is "close means i'm not using it"
[03:56] <Kamion> I don't think it's a particularly special need ...
[03:57] <Kamion> shrug, sounds like I'll just have to ignore the warty defaults on all my systems; I don't think I have a single laptop where sleep actually works :(
[03:57] <jdub> it's not a special need if you perceive the computer differently to that ;)
[03:58] <Kamion> it just seems like a waste of time to even bother putting the thing to sleep under those circumstances
[03:58] <jdub> so, outside of usability questions -> do the majority of ppc machines not sleep correctly?
[03:58] <Kamion> anything with a modern Radeon card won't
[03:58] <Kamion> >=9600 I think
[03:58] <Kamion> not sure about the NVidia ones
[04:00] <Kamion> > Regarding sleep support, there's always hope as far as ATI chips are
[04:00] <Kamion> > concerned as ATI has always been helpful with that in the past, though
[04:00] <Kamion> > it takes time. For nVidia chips, there is no hope.
[04:00] <Kamion> so currently AFAIK no aluminium powerbook can sleep
[04:01] <Kamion> suspend-to-disk stands a better chance, dunno if it's been implemented in 2.6 yet though
[04:01] <jdub> external patches, still, i believe
[04:29] <whiprush> jdub: I had a strong suspicion that that exchange button was upstream.
[04:29] <fabbione> Kamion: i think Sounder 8 will have to wait tuesday
[04:30] <fabbione> Kamion: i found a few interesting extra bugs in X
[04:30] <fabbione> not worth to ship X in that condition
[04:30] <Kamion> fabbione: not this coming Monday anyway, the Monday after that
[04:30] <Kamion> in any case Monday's a public holiday in the UK, so I'll be away
[04:31] <jdub> whiprush: it's annoying
[04:31] <jdub> i'd like exchange stuff to be there by default
[04:31] <jdub> but that button is a bit of a blight
[04:31] <jdub> brb
[04:32] <ploum> Hello
[04:32] <jdub> yo ploum 
[04:32] <ploum> I just send my review
[04:32] <jdub> welcome :)
[04:32] <ploum> Thanks ;-)
[04:32] <jdub> it's an epic! :)
[04:32] <ploum> Well, I read it now and there's so much mispelling :-(
[04:32] <ploum> And there seems to be a bug in Abi with color
[04:33] <fabbione> Kamion: ok
[04:33] <fabbione> ploum: thanks for the report but in abiwork you don't make it easy for me to reply :(
[04:33] <fabbione> ploum: are you subscribed to the mailing list?
[04:33] <ploum> fabbione, it's was a bit long for a mail
[04:33] <Kamion> yow, ditto
[04:34] <Kamion> text-only *far* preferable
[04:34] <ploum> fabbione, yes. Do you want that I send the text as a mail
[04:34] <ploum> ?
[04:34] <ploum> I will do it !
[04:34] <ploum> Abiword was for colors and images..
[04:34] <fabbione> ploum: i would like you to provide me with the info about X as i wrote in a previous email
[04:34] <fabbione> ploum: let me give you a link'
[04:35] <Kamion> ploum: I take it you didn't use the "erase entire disk" option?
[04:35] <fabbione> http://rince.africaninspace.com/mailman/private/sounder/2004-August/000121.html
[04:35] <fabbione> ploum: you will need to authenticate to read the archive
[04:36] <fabbione> ploum: Subject: Notes on how to debug X autodetection.
[04:36] <Kamion> ploum: the post-reboot progress bar thing's known but will take some time to fix because debconf doesn't yet have progress bar support.
[04:38] <Kamion> (it's on my list ...)
[04:38] <ploum> Kamion, I know that somes things are difficult or already know. But it's my full first impression
[04:38] <Kamion> sure, just ticking things off. :-)
[04:40] <ploum> fabbione, I'm not under Warty here (it's my good old Debian). I will try it today ...
[04:43] <seb128> ploum: I've resend your review in plain text to the list
[04:43] <fabbione> ploum: thanks. that would give me more info on why it didn't detect the panel correctly
[04:43] <seb128> more easy to reply
[04:44] <fabbione> from the X release most of the bugs should go away..
[04:44] <fabbione> i found a few interesting problems related to resolution and frequency detection
[04:44] <fabbione> specially when you pass these data to the frontends
[04:45] <ploum> seb128, ARGH !
[04:45] <seb128> ploum: what ?
[04:45] <ploum> I did it in the same time
[04:46] <seb128> not a big deal
[04:46] <ploum> with somes minor corrections
[04:46] <seb128> I did it about 10 min ago in fact
[04:46] <seb128> I can't reply to the comment with the abiword format
[04:46] <ploum> I understand..
[04:46] <seb128> and I've a lot of notes to add for the desktop part
[04:46] <ploum> I was for the color
[04:46] <seb128> it's fine, having both is better
[04:46] <ploum> great
[04:47] <seb128> so we have the color and we can reply :)
[04:47] <ploum> I just hope that it will be useful
[04:48] <ploum> I hope to see X.org in Ubuntu some day :-)
[04:49] <crevette> I saw that there is some neb like me
[04:49] <crevette> hello ploum 
[04:49] <crevette> :)
[04:49] <ploum> hello crevette 
[04:49] <crevette> s/nrb/newb/
[04:50] <crevette> You were faster than me I wanted to send a report on the Gnome part but you did it and there is some part I agree
[04:50] <ploum> yes.. I'm really noob here. And I make mistakes ..
[04:51] <crevette> ploum: for the warning message to wide for evo blame seb128 
[04:51] <crevette> :)
[04:51] <crevette> s/to/too/
[04:54] <ploum> I reboot in Warty to test :-)
[05:00] <jdub> ploum's review is amusing ;)
[05:01] <seb128> yeah :)
[05:01] <seb128> he likes doing this sort of stuff
[05:01] <seb128> he did several reviews on GNOME, spatial mode, how to use them, etc
[05:09] <ploum> Gdm est toujours en allemand et en 1152x864 :-( 
[05:09] <ploum> Et X a de nouveau plant au dmarrage
[05:10] <ploum> Oups.. sorry
[05:10] <ploum> I forgot to speak english
[05:10] <ploum> I'm tired
[05:10] <ploum> I just booted into warty :
[05:10] <ploum> 1) X has crashed at first start
[05:10] <ploum> 2) GDM is still in deutch and 1152x864
[05:12] <bdale> lamont: http://people.debian.org/~joey/3.0r3/ has a couple packages in "need more info" status because they never built on hppa and/or ia64 ... got time to take a peek?
[05:13] <seb128> ploum: X has crashed ? which error ?
[05:14] <seb128> ploum: BTW I've replied to your mail
[05:15] <ploum> seb128, thx you for response
[05:16] <seb128> np, thanks for the review
[05:16] <ploum> seb128, the X crash was exactly the same as in my review : black/white lines followed by coloured blocks
[05:19] <ploum> also, I don't understand why but Warty was not able to find a DNS server this time
[05:19] <Kamion> ploum: were you DHCPing?
[05:19] <ploum> But it could be an issue with the DHCP server
[05:19] <ploum> I use a Wifi modem as a DHCP server
[05:19] <ploum> And I'm not sure it works great
[05:20] <ploum> It sends only itself as DNS server
[05:20] <ploum> So all computer here have static DNS configuration
[05:20] <ploum> Strangely, it worked two days ago
[05:20] <daf> hypatia: you are Mary, I take it :)
[05:21] <ploum> fabbione, so I just add deb http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/no-name-yet warty main in my source.list and do your test ?
[05:21] <hypatia> daf: Yes.
[05:21] <daf> hypatia: welcome!
[05:21] <hypatia> thanks
[05:21] <daf> how is New York?
[05:21] <hypatia> technically I do not belong here yet as I have no computer to install warty on...
[05:21] <hypatia> daf: We're still in Boston (Cambridge).
[05:21] <hypatia> But it's nice.
[05:22] <hypatia> New York on Monday.
[05:22] <daf> hypatia: ah, cool
[05:22] <daf> hypatia: how's Andrew faring?
[05:22] <hypatia> Ok I think.
[05:22] <hypatia> He's just woken up (it's 11:30 here but only 8:30 west coast time you see).
[05:23] <Kamion> I didn't expect my last-but-one job to be a potential customer :)
[05:23] <seb128> jdub: I read the list, no need to send me the mails too :)
[05:23] <daf> Kamion: heh :)
[05:23] <jdub> seb128: :P
[05:27] <mdz> Kamion: fascinating...in #268421 the submitter pasted the entire status file entry as the debbugs pseudo-header
[05:27] <ploum> ow.. I see firefox 9.3 coming ;)
[05:28] <daf> mdz: fun
[05:28] <Kamion> mdz: cool
[05:28] <Kamion> in a scary sort of way
[05:29] <Kamion> the semantics are different, so debbugs will have stopped parsing after Conffiles:
[05:29] <Kamion> (no continuation lines)
[05:34] <jdub> Fetched 38.5MB in 4m43s (136kB/s)
[05:34] <jdub> erm
[05:34] <jdub> hrm
[05:36] <ploum> fabbione, It's done
[05:36] <ploum> no question
[05:36] <ploum> The config is the same as before
[05:37] <ploum> X works (I will try to see if it works the first time after a reboot)
[05:37] <ploum> GDM is still in Deutch and 1152x864, like new users if I add them
[05:38] <wally> ploum, say "deutsch" :-)
[05:38] <wally> hi ploum, by the way ;-)
[05:38] <ploum> wally, thx :-)
[05:38] <ploum> hi wally
[05:38] <crevette> ploum: I have the same problem than you
[05:38] <ploum> seb128, I've made a new user with my up-to-date Warty : there's no icon in the panel
[05:39] <wally> hmmm, should i have noticed gdm being in german?
[05:39] <wally> it's normally in german, on my box :-)
[05:39] <ploum> wally, did you use a qwertz keyboard ?
[05:39] <ploum> ;-)
[05:40] <seb128> ploum: rm -rf /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/apps/panel/ and "sh /var/lib/dpkg/info/gnome-panel-data.postinst configure" and try again
[05:40] <wally> ploum, yes, i did
[05:41] <ploum> seb128, by the way, the new "Computer" menu is great
[05:41] <seb128> thanks :)
[05:41] <ploum> you must submit it upstream
[05:41] <wally> i upgraded from a sid/experimental and dont have the nice new-sorted menu entries, my brother got, when he upgraded from sid
[05:42] <seb128> experimental has probably more recent versions
[05:42] <wally> oh... alright
[05:42] <seb128> we start to -0ubuntu1 -0ubuntu2 ...
[05:43] <lamont> bdale: curious... all of the packages marked 'MISSING hppa' I've looked at are either (1) built successfully long ago, or (2) not tried
[05:43] <seb128> then when debian package -1 that's more recent
[05:43] <wally> thanks seb128, 
[05:43] <seb128> np
[05:43] <wally> i'll sort it out
[05:43] <ploum> seb128, WHAT ? No Xnest in Warty ???
[05:43] <jdub> ploum: it's in supported, but not installed with the desktop by default
[05:45] <ploum> seb128, it works : Firefox, Evolution, Gnome-help
[05:45] <ploum> great :D
[05:45] <seb128> :)
[05:45] <seb128> my previous patch was bad
[05:46] <jdub> edd: not even for gdmflexiserver xnest loving?
[05:46] <seb128> gdmflexiserver xnest is hardly usable here
[05:46] <mdz> jdub: didn't we talk about adding it to desktop?
[05:46] <edd> not even for whatyousaid lovenesting!
[05:46] <seb128> when I change workspace metacity crash apparently
[05:46] <jdub> mdz: we talked about it but you said "hmm, neh" or similar. ;-)
[05:47] <ploum> seb128, I never had problem with Xnest
[05:47] <seb128> and I can't get focus in the xnest windows after that, so I can't use it anymore
[05:47] <seb128> I tend to blame the new focus mode in metacity
[05:47] <mdz> jdub: as I recall, you said "hey, xnest in desktop?" and I looked at you funny, and then you explained about gdmflexiserver
[05:47] <ploum> So, would you that I test something here on Warty, or can I back to my Debian ? 
[05:47] <jdub> mdz: it's kind of a techo use case anyway
[05:47] <jdub> mdz: but it is kinda cool, and only one more icon in system tools
[05:48] <seb128> ploum: you don't like your warty ? :)
[05:48] <mdz> jdub: it is a little big (3.5M installed, 1.5M deb)
[05:48] <ploum> seb128, I don't want to customize my warty to keep it as default as possible
[05:48] <whiprush> whoever came up with the home applet idea, you have my thanks.
[05:48] <seb128> ploum: ok
[05:48] <seb128> ploum: so I guess you can get back to your Debian :)
[05:49] <seb128> jdub: have time to talk about the applets ?
[05:49] <ploum> Found a usability bug :
[05:49] <mdz> home applet?
[05:49] <ploum> When you click a link in Evolution, nothing happens :-(
[05:49] <jdub> mdz: yeah, was just checking that too ;) let
[05:49] <seb128> ploum: probably epiphany as default in control-center ?
[05:49] <jdub> 's leave it
[05:49] <seb128> and it's not installed
[05:49] <ploum> seb128, you've got it
[05:50] <whiprush> mdz: it's a shortcut to your home dir but on the panel. I think it's eliminated a good deal of my minimizing.
[05:50] <jdub> whiprush: erk, that's really a side-effect of the computer menu stuff
[05:50] <seb128> jdub: should I change the default browser to firefox ?
[05:50] <edd> heresy :)
[05:50] <jdub> seb128: let's make sure we're on the same page as mdz :)
[05:50] <ploum> seb128, at least to an installed browser
[05:50] <whiprush> what, the applet?
[05:50] <mdz> ++firefox
[05:50] <jdub> whiprush: yeah
[05:50] <seb128> ploum: sure, but the question is which one :)
[05:51] <jdub> mdz: you're happy with syncing firefox with the desktop/
[05:51] <ploum> And why is Mozilla installed if nothing depend on it ?
[05:51] <jdub> ploum: ephiphany depends on mozilla
[05:51] <Kamion> nah
[05:51] <ploum> jdub, but epiphany is not installed
[05:51] <Kamion> ploum: that was a bug in base-config, it wasn't telling aptitude to ignore Recommends:
[05:51] <mdz> jdub: I can't say I'm fully confident
[05:51] <Kamion> ploum: it's fixed in the daily builds
[05:51] <mdz> jdub: the reason we can get away with it with GNOME is that they have sane release management
[05:51] <whiprush> jdub: I've started wondering if being able to drop files right on the applet and have them moved/copied to ~ would be a good idea.
[05:52] <jdub> whiprush: ... eek. now you're turning a whoopsie into a feature. ;)
[05:52] <whiprush> hah
[05:52] <Kamion> jdub: best thing to do with them sometimes :-)
[05:52] <whiprush> so the entire thing is a misfeature then?
[05:53] <jdub> whiprush: basically they appear as applets because they're special menu entries
[05:53] <whiprush> ah
[05:53] <jdub> i'm a little worried about shipping with them there, because depending on what happens in releases down the track, they may disappear
[05:53] <whiprush> well, I find the home one useful, but if you removed them, you can replicate the same functionality with a launcher.
[05:54] <whiprush> er, custom launcher.
[05:54] <jdub> yeah
[05:54] <seb128> jdub: did you send your mail about the menu changes or not yet ? If yes I've not received it ...
[05:54] <whiprush> heh I thought you guys were conciously moving things off the desktop and onto the panels.
[05:54] <jdub> (they are interesting, though, considering the long-running discussions about fixing the whole fucked up panel/applet/execution model)
[05:54] <jdub> seb128: no, slept ;)
[05:54] <ploum> also, another thing : the exchange plugin is uggly when you don't have an exchange server :-( (a whole blank page)
[05:54] <seb128> ok
[05:55] <whiprush> ploum: dupe bug! ;)
[05:55] <jdub> whiprush: might be best to assume lack-of-plan ahead of obvious-plan ;)
[05:55] <ploum> whiprush, soryr but I don't understand. What means "dupe" ?
[05:55] <whiprush> ploum: duplicate, I already reported it.
[05:56] <whiprush> you get a blank-looking thing that makes it look like evolution might be crashing right?
[05:56] <ploum> whiprush, ok fine :-)
[05:56] <ploum> yes indeed
[05:56] <ploum> but it's also upstream
[05:56] <ploum> Well, it seems that Warty is becoming the perfect Desktop
[05:56] <ploum> http://frimouvy.org/wiki/ThePerfectDesktop
[05:57] <ploum> Also, just suggestion
[05:57] <ploum> It could be cool to add Kino by default to the desktop (for video editing and DV grabing)
[05:57] <jdub> ploum: when it's a bit more polished, it'll probably go in supported (it's not the kind of thing that everyone would use0
[05:58] <seb128> that's not a standard application
[05:58] <seb128> I don't want to edit videos
[05:58] <daf> if seb128 doesn't want to do it, it's not standard :)
[05:58] <seb128> daf: you get it :p
[05:59] <ploum> ok :-)
[05:59] <daf> seb128: so why isn't gTetrinet in desktop? :)
[05:59] <ploum> If you must patch firefox, a good idea would be to make by default the behaviour : clicking on a ling close it
[06:00] <mdz> npmccallum: ping?
[06:00] <ploum> so, goodbye everybody..
[06:00] <seb128> daf: yes, we already said that, we need some good games in the desktop !
[06:00] <daf> :)
[06:00] <seb128> jdub: what do you think about gtetrinet in the desktop with a launcher in the default panel ? :)
[06:00] <daf> the gTetrinet UI really needs some love, though
[06:01] <daf> it's pretty sucky
[06:01] <seb128> I don't really look on the UI
[06:01] <jdub> seb128: then we defer to "does jdub use it?" after the "does seb use it?" rule
[06:01] <daf> and it has some nasty i18n issues
[06:01] <seb128> jdub: yeah :-P
[06:06] <lamont> jdub: gnome USB palm.  config.
[06:06] <lamont> :-)
[06:09] <jdub> ugh -> now i remember how bad tsclient is :|
[06:09] <jdub> lamont: what's the problem?
[06:09] <lamont> jdub: probably user error.
[06:10] <jdub> so you need to use the ttyUSB device
[06:10] <jdub> and then it'll only find your palm when you press the connect button
[06:10] <jdub> i find using pilot-link to debug is worthwhile
[06:10] <lamont> when last I tried to figure it out, configured some conduits, and then gave up because I couldn't figure out how to build the entire structure to where I could actually get data from the PDA...
[06:11] <lamont> I think it's more the app stack to replace jpilot that was giving me the confusion...
[06:11] <jdub> evolution
[06:11] <daf> having said that, I'm up for a gTetrinet game if anybody else is
[06:11] <jdub> if you've set up the conduits for it
[06:12] <jdub> (i'd wait for new packages from seb if he hasn't done them already, there was a new release of the pilot stuff recently)
[06:12] <seb128> jdub: new package of what ?
[06:13] <lamont> jdub: and then if there's a "setting up your USB palm with evolution" howto-for-the-clueless, that'd be wonderful..
[06:13] <jdub> seb128: gnome-pilot and friends
[06:13] <lamont> :-)
[06:13] <jdub> lamont: hrm, dunno
[06:13] <jdub> maybe in the gnome-pilot or evo docs
[06:13] <seb128> jdub: I'm supposed to package new version of gnome-pilot ?
[06:13] <lamont> yeah, will dig.
[06:13] <seb128> I didn't know
[06:14] <jdub> seb128: well, it's not strictly in the gnome list, but older versions won't work with evo1.5 8)
[06:14] <seb128> ok, so I'll have a look
[06:14] <lamont> seb128: it's kinda one of those assumptions - new gnome, seb uploads. :-)  You've been doing such an overkill job on it that, well...
[06:15] <jdub> seb128: sorry, i'll make sure we define this properly during hoary
[06:15] <seb128> like - build problem, just ping lamont ? :)
[06:15] <lamont> seb128: yeah!  that's it/
[06:15] <jdub> seb128: perhaps even via a gnome seed, so we can see all the depends and so on :-)
[06:16] <seb128> jdub: no problem, if some stuff are not updated but should be, just let me know
[06:16] <Kamion> one of the symptoms of a startup distribution is that lots of enormous areas of functionality tend to be maintained by one hero maintainer :)
[06:16] <jdub> o/~ we don't need another hero, we just need another seb128 o/!
[06:17] <seb128> erf
[06:19] <edd> or just get the existing seb128 a ram pack (wobble free, of course)
[06:19] <jdub> so he'd be seb512?
[06:20] <edd> sounds good.
[06:20] <Mithrandir> Kamion: .. like, the installer?
[06:26] <npmccallum> mdz: pong
[06:26] <mdz> npmccallum: can you take care of #501 today?
[06:28] <jdub> is it actually possible to upload to hoary yet?
[06:28] <npmccallum> mdz: sure thing
[06:29] <jdub> like, i don't care if things won't get built, but i'd like to dump some stuff up there
[06:30] <mdz> npmccallum: cool, thanks
[06:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I guess :)
[06:30] <mdz> jdub: new packages, or new versions?
[06:30] <jdub> hrm, both :)
[06:31] <mdz> jdub: new versions won't really work, considering hoary is going to get new stuff from sid
[06:31] <jdub> yeah
[06:32] <mdz> then we'd have to merge warty changes _and_ hoary changes into it
[06:32] <jdub> and baby jesus would cry
[06:33] <mdz> jdub: does vino not have a menu entry?
[06:34] <npmccallum> mdz: #501 is done, the package is in ~npmccallum/UploadQueue
[06:36] <jdub> mdz: 'remote desktop' under desktop preferences
[06:36] <wally> brb
[06:36] <jdub> mdz: you have to run vino-session to make the server work though (that should be added in gnome-session)
[06:36] <mdz> npmccallum: no need to wait on it, thanks
[06:36] <jdub> unless that's done already - seb128 ?
[06:36] <seb128> do what ?
[06:37] <seb128> vino in the default session ?
[06:37] <seb128> yes, it is
[06:37] <jdub> $ gksudo gdmsetup
[06:37] <jdub> We trust you ha
[06:37] <jdub> 
[06:37] <jdub> ^ erm?
[06:37] <mdz> Kamion: console-data asked me a question on upgrade for some reason
[06:38] <mdz> jdub: that's the annoying sudo banner
[06:38] <mdz> I thought we turned that off by default
[06:39] <mdz> Defaults        !lecture,tty_tickets
[06:39] <mdz> yep
[06:40] <jdub> gksudo seems elb0rk
[06:40] <mdz> jdub: assuming we get it working, are we going to have to modify a ton of .desktop files to actually use gksudo?
[06:40] <Kamion> mdz: no idea; what does echo GET debconf/priority | debconf-communicate say?
[06:40] <mdz> or should we link gksu -> gksudo?
[06:40] <jdub> oh no, there is goes
[06:40] <jdub> mdz: that's what i'm trying to figure out now ;)
[06:40] <mdz> seems to work for me
[06:40] <Kamion> mdz: wasn't anything I changed anyway, I don't think
[06:41] <mdz> no lecture either
[06:41] <mdz> Kamion: 0 high
[06:41] <Kamion> unless console-data asks you whenever the list of keymaps it knows about changes, or something BONG like that
[06:41] <mdz> it doesn't ask me anything on --reinstall
[06:42] <mdz> weird
[06:42] <wall1> re
[06:50] <seb128> jdub: because your first was not changing that and you said you'll removed the advanced part so we don't care
[06:51] <seb128> s/first/first patch/
[06:51] <jdub> hrm, the gdm diff.gz removes AdvancedSettings, yet the installed package has it...
[06:53] <jdub> seb128: mmm, i think it should be invisible (at the moment), but there's a bit of a difference between the src and the installed package ;)
[06:56] <jdub> mdz: gksudo is a symlink to gksu
[06:56] <jdub> mdz: so, um, i think that means we're stuck modifying desktop files
[06:56] <mdz> jdub: yeah, noticed that
[06:56] <mdz> silly thing
[06:57] <seb128> jdub: apparently one more "I changed the .desktop instead of .desktop.in" ....
[06:57] <jdub> seb128: :)
[06:57] <jdub> seb128: that jdub is a bit of a twit :)
[06:57] <jdub> seb128: but you accepted his patch! ;)
[06:57] <jdub> mdz: ok, i'm going to change the gdm one now
[06:57] <seb128> yeah, shame on me
[06:58] <Keybuk> jdub: that picture of you is a classic
[06:58] <seb128> I think I'll try Oskuro's method -> jdub's mail filter to /dev/null
[06:58] <seb128> :p
[06:59] <jdub> haha
[06:59] <jdub> Keybuk: which?
[06:59] <Keybuk> http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2004/lwce-canonical/imgp0189.jpg
[07:00] <jdub> oh, haha
[07:01] <Oskuro> oh, so cool :D
[07:02] <Oskuro> was this the last friday?
[07:03] <Kamion> yeah
[07:03] <Oskuro> http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2004/lwce-canonical/imgp0063.jpg <- dde
[07:03] <Oskuro> dude even!
[07:04] <Oskuro> heh, "jdub visits toilet" series
[07:08] <edd> you people scare me
[07:27] <mdz> thom: did you happen to notice in your chunderbird adventure _why_ it build-depends on csh and whether it would be straightforward to fix?
[07:31] <jdub> npmccallum: did you see justdave's gvm autorun default issue?
[07:31] <Kamion> Gracias por elegir Ubuntu!
[07:31] <npmccallum> jdub: yes, I did
[07:31] <justdave> mdz: there are two .csh files in the entire tree, and nothing uses them as part of the build anymore, according to the Mozilla folks
[07:31] <Oskuro> Kamion: oh!
[07:31] <npmccallum> jdub: I know what the problem is, but I don't quiet know how to solve it yet
[07:32] <jdub> npmccallum: modify the schemas file
[07:32] <Oskuro> Kamion: I saw Catalan "de Ubuntu" issues in my Warty install the other day, btw.
[07:32] <justdave> an if they are, one is 31 lines and the other 81 (with lots of whitespace) so it probably wouldn't be exhorbitant to translate them to bash
[07:32] <Oskuro> (should be "d'Ubuntu")
[07:32] <jdub> elegir == install? :)
[07:32] <Kamion> Oskuro: Tollef may not have known about that issue
[07:32] <npmccallum> jdub: I'm not sure what you mean
[07:32] <Kamion> jdub: choosing
[07:32] <jdub> Oskuro: whoa, d'Ubuntu! :)
[07:32] <Oskuro> jdub: choose
[07:32] <jdub> npmccallum: the defaults are defined in the gconf schema file
[07:32] <Oskuro> jdub: sounds great doesn't it? :)
[07:32] <jdub> npmccallum: included with gvm
[07:32] <npmccallum> jdub: I think we may be talking about different issues
[07:33] <jdub> npmccallum: justdave said autorun was on by default (which doesn't sound right to me, but...)
[07:33] <npmccallum> npmccallum: why is that a problem?
[07:33] <npmccallum> s/npmccallum/jdub/
[07:34] <Kamion> insert evil CD your friend gave you, evil code autoruns
[07:34] <jdub> npmccallum: it's not a sane default (even though almost nothing uses autorun, but if something shitty did, then that would suck)
[07:35] <npmccallum> jdub: ok, we can disable it
[07:35] <Kamion> hm, we need Joey's recent base-config patch to glue LANG into /etc/default/gdm
[07:36] <Kamion> otherwise gdm comes up in English on the second boot regardless of installation language
[07:36] <Mithrandir> that would be very nice, yes.
[07:40] <Kamion> fabbione: you doing anything with base-config at the moment?
[07:44] <mdz> justdave: oh, great, thanks for the info
[07:47] <jdub> seb128: hrm
[07:47] <seb128> jdub: what ?
[07:47] <jdub> seb128: every now and then, the 'run application...' entry appears or disappears in the applications menu
[07:48] <seb128> weird
[07:48] <seb128> is your panel working correctly ?
[07:48] <jdub> otherwise, yeah
[07:48] <jdub> i just installed gdm
[07:48] <jdub> new gdm package
[07:48] <seb128> ie: if you change the width you get the visual change ?
[07:48] <jdub> so perhaps it has something to do with re-reading the items?
[07:48] <jdub> visual change?
[07:49] <jdub> oh, if i change the setting, does it react?
[07:49] <seb128> yes
[07:49] <jdub> yeah
[07:49] <seb128> ok, so that's not that bug
[07:49] <seb128> I note it on my huge list of stuff to check :)
[07:49] <jdub> heh
[07:52] <jdub> heh
[07:54] <jdub> yeah, so, we totally need a little tool that looks for extra stuff you've installed from universe and supported :-)
[07:55] <seb128> would be nice yeah
[07:56] <seb128> jdub: I've mailed trashapplet's maintainer sunday and still no news ... 
[07:56] <jdub> seb128: debian or upstream?
[07:56] <seb128> upstream
[07:56] <seb128> this is not in debian
[07:56] <jdub> oh yeah,
[07:56] <jdub> hrm
[07:56] <jdub> that's a bummer
[07:56] <seb128> s/maintainer/devel/
[07:57] <npmccallum> jdub: do all the file names need to change as well (ubuntu-artwork)?
[07:57] <seb128> I send 2 patches in fact, reported some issues and talked about the animations stuff
[07:57] <seb128> I guess he's on holidays or something like that, no reason to not reply
[07:58] <jdub> npmccallum: as opposed to just the theme dir names?
[07:58] <mdz> npmccallum: I thought autorun prompted the user before executing the program
[07:59] <mdz> that seems like the most reasonable default, explain what will happen and ask for confirmation
[07:59] <seb128> npmccallum: sorry, I've not had time to look on your patch yet, but I don't forget it, don't worry
[07:59] <seb128> I'll try to have a look after dinner
[07:59] <npmccallum> seb128: Its ok, I'll do the changes, just keep working
[07:59] <npmccallum> seb128: I'm waiting for the new pmount as well
[08:00] <seb128> ok
[08:00] <seb128> thanks
[08:02] <npmccallum> jdub, mdz: gvm *does* prompt before running
[08:03] <npmccallum> jdub: I mean like the image filenames
[08:03] <mdz> npmccallum: why disable it, then?  that seems safe enough
[08:03] <npmccallum> mdz: I was just honoring jdub's request :)
[08:04] <jdub> mdz: anal retentive safety, and the fact that basically nothing uses RH-style autorun anyway
[08:05] <mdz> the only security issue is when something is run unexpectedly, without the user's explicit consent
[08:05] <mdz> if they _want_ it to run, then they're just going to click around and do it anyway, and the feature would have saved them some time
[08:05] <seb128>    * gnome-volume-manager.schemas.in: turned off autorun by default
[08:05] <seb128> another guy changing directly a file in a GNOME package ?
[08:07] <seb128> we use CDBS and put patchs (standard diff format) in debian/patches/
[08:07] <npmccallum> seb128: sorry, my bad
[08:07] <seb128> no problem
[08:07] <seb128> I know a lot of maintainer just change the package and get the changes in the .diff.gz
[08:07] <npmccallum> seb128: I think we may roll back that patch anyway
[08:07] <mdz> seb128: this will all hopefully be a non-issue with sourcerer :-)
[08:07] <seb128> but that's a pain to track what's changed or not
[08:08] <seb128> yes, but for the moment that's much more easy to track the changes with patches in debian/patches
[08:08] <seb128> npmccallum: no problem, don't worry
[08:08] <jdub> seb128: (was the non-patches change to gnome-applets ok, considering it was just new files under debian/ and a change to debian/rules?)
[08:08] <mdz> ok, I need radio silence for a few hours; I'll be answering the phone in case something urgent comes up
[08:09] <seb128> jdub: yes, for this one only the changelog entry was bad :p
[08:09] <npmccallum> mdz, jdub: roll back the gvm autorun change?
[08:09] <seb128> BTW time to dinner, later guys
[08:09] <jdub> seb128: 8)
[08:09] <mdz> npmccallum: if nobody uses it, I don't suppose it matters either way
[08:10] <jdub> npmccallum: i'd prefer it off, even just so it doesn't pop up stupid dialogues
[08:10] <Kamion> I'll be merging a current version of base-config this evening (I hope), since it has a lot of bug fixes we want
[08:11] <Kamion> will have to do a full install with the merged version on a CD, though; it'll be a fairly complex merge
[08:12] <Kamion> can we have joeyh's minimal preseeding work in Warty?
[08:12] <Kamion> he did most of it at the Canonical conference
[08:12] <npmccallum> jdub: I'll leave it off
[08:45] <wall1> *grrrr* i hate  dia  :-/
[08:46] <wall1> well, i really like it, but when you start to rely on it too much... 
[08:50] <_newbie_> hi can anyone tell me how I get around the root password problem. I'm trying to setup my laptop but have no idea what to do when asked for root password because install did'nt ask me to set one
[08:50] <Mithrandir> _newbie_: open a shell and type  sudo passwd root
[08:50] <Mithrandir> for now
[08:50] <Mithrandir> you'll be asked about a password, that's your user password
[08:51] <Mithrandir> then you'll get a question for the new password for root.
[08:51] <_newbie_> thanx
[08:55] <wall1> brb
[09:13] <_newbie_> ok, next question. how do you update the system from the 'net, installed uodated packages etc?
[09:13] <_newbie_> install, even
[09:14] <Kamion> put 'deb http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/no-name-yet warty main' in /etc/apt/sources.list, 'apt-get update', then use apt-get (or "Synaptic Package Manager" from the menus) as normal
[09:14] <Kamion> we'll be making that a bit less voodoo soon
[09:25] <Mithrandir> Kamion: synaptic is run through gksu, which doesn't do sudo.
[09:26] <justdave> 'sudo passwd root'
[09:27] <justdave> problem solved.
[09:27] <justdave> although I'm not sure how to undo that later. :)
[09:27] <justdave> (once gksudo or whatever it's called becomes available)
[09:28] <Mithrandir> I wonder if we could have a sudo-query [-u $user]  $command which would return true if the user could run $command as $user.
[09:28] <Kamion> sudo passwd -l root
[09:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: sudo -l
[09:28] <Kamion> ?
[09:29] <Mithrandir> Kamion: seems to ask for a password here?
[09:29] <Kamion> yes
[09:29] <Kamion> otherwise it'd be information leakage
[09:29] <Kamion> (it's asking for your own password)
[09:30] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure if the information leakage is critical.
[09:30] <Kamion> I'd be uncomfortable if sudo -l required less authentication than sudo itself
[09:30] <Mithrandir> and I don't see how you would implement gksu properly without a way to ask whether sudo could run the command
[09:31] <Kamion> can't you just try it?
[09:31] <Mithrandir> so gksu will first ask for the user's password, then discover it doesn't work (because of either wrong password or not correct permissions), which will cause mails to be sent and so on.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> and then it will prompt for the root password.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> very confusing UI-wise.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> and sudo-query would be less bad than sudo -l without password, imho.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> use PAM and rate limit it if you so want.
[09:33] <Kamion> no, we should make gksu *only* ever use sudo if the root password is locked
[09:33] <Kamion> remember that we need to make this work for warty; I'm very uneasy about hacks around sudo's security in that timeframe ...
[09:33] <_newbie_> does ubunto have the firmware for prismGT cards? Or do I have to download and install drivers before my Netgear PCMCIA wireless card will work?
[09:34] <Mithrandir> how can gksu know that?
[09:34] <Kamion> hm, of course, it can't
[09:34] <Kamion> in that case gksu will need some configuration that the tool to enable/disable the root password could change ...
[09:35] <Mithrandir> it sounds hackish
[09:35] <Mithrandir> _newbie_: cd /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware ; wget -O isl3890 http://prism54.org/~mcgrof/firmware/1.0.4.3.arm
[09:36] <Mithrandir> then it should work if you pop the card and insert it again
[09:39] <_newbie_> ta
[10:26] <_newbie_> i've done the wget for the firmware. on reboot i get the error prism54 isl3890 size  is not a multiple of 32bit ABORTING
[11:09] <crevette> hello
[11:12] <seb128> hey crevette 
[11:12] <crevette> I can't no more a resolution 1280x1024
[11:12] <crevette> +have
[11:12] <crevette> is there a change in the resolution detection ?
[11:26] <seb128> crevette: that's a question for fabbione 
[11:26] <crevette> whouach 
[11:26] <crevette> there is a lot of modules loaded by default
[11:26] <seb128> crevette: mail the list so you'll get a reply later
[11:27] <crevette> oki
[11:27] <crevette> I look like a newbie
[11:27] <crevette> I change my res
[11:27] <crevette> :)
[11:27] <crevette> + can't
[11:28] <seb128> you don't have any other resolution in the xrandr stuff ?
[11:29] <mdz> crevette: are you subscribed to the sounder mailing list?
[11:29] <mdz> fabbione posted a message recently which explains what to do if the autoconfiguration does not do what you expect
[11:29] <mdz> I can forward you a copy if you are not on the list
[11:34] <crevette> mdz: very recently
[11:34] <crevette> I was very busy last hours
[11:34] <crevette> I will look into the archive