=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
danielsSleepBoB: dude, if you want a radeon 9000, i can lend it to you tonight12:16
danielshere's $5, buy something that's not nvidia12:17
mdzdaniels: how do I go about getting a dvorak layout with xkb on a powerpc (which uses xkblayout "macintosh")?12:28
mdzon i386 "setxkbmap dvorak" works fine12:28
mdzbut on powerpc I get a very unhelpful "Error loading new keyboard description"12:29
mdzin other words, #25500712:29
mdzwhich I just noticed12:29
mdzwhich also contains a fix12:30
mdzand so, never mind :-)12:32
danielsglad to be of service ;)12:33
danielsdo you want the next xfree86 revision to have that fix?12:33
mdzI just pulled it into warty bugzilla to ask about that12:35
=== daniels watches rsync whiz by.
danielspool/main/t ...12:37
=== Md is now known as alice
=== alice is now known as Md
=== aes [~andrew@dsl-212-23-23-154.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
=== mark0 [marko@treason.nexuslabs.com] has joined #ubuntu
mark0anyoen here installed warty amd64?01:11
Clintnot I01:13
mark0are you using the x86 ver?01:14
mark0err i386/ia3201:14
Clintno, I've only used powerpc01:15
mark0i guess i could try it on nova01:15
=== hrdwrbob [~hrdwrbob@c210-49-180-240.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== Riff [~davyd@cook.theducks.org] has joined #ubuntu
=== fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu
=== StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu
Clintmaybe you should try the mailing list03:37
=== cef_work [~cef@fw-01.amc.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
jdubyo, can you guys check the FAQ to see if we're missing anything sensible?04:35
jdub  http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions04:35
jdubi've just added a short entry about root04:35
jdubbecause everyone's asking about it :-)04:35
jdubif any of those answers need to be improved, let me know04:35
hrdwrbobhence, FAQ :)04:35
Gmanwhat's the username and passwd? ;)04:35
jdubGman: sounder:oink04:36
jdubsounders:oink, sorry04:36
Gmanoh right, /topic04:36
Gmanwondered what that meant04:36
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:Kamion] : SSDS | http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/ username: sounders, password: oink | Sounder CD 7 released
Kamionlet's expand that a bit04:36
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:jdub] : SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Sounder CD 7 released
hrdwrbobmuch ebtter04:37
jdubbah, you got there before i did04:37
jdubwhich is better? :)04:37
Kamionyours'll do04:37
hrdwrbobsecond one, I was about to say words to that effect :)04:37
jdub'sonly going to have a password for a little while longer ;)04:38
jdubcef_work: you're posting with a different email address to the one you subscribed under :)04:38
jdubKamion: what does openssh-server use openssh-client for?04:39
jdubKamion: proxy and so on, or...?04:40
Gman'Please note that the real one would be less racy, but this is the sort of palette I imagine we will want.'04:46
Clintjdub: I imagine it needs it for scp and sftp04:48
jdubgrr, seb nuked my changes to file-roller and gnome-applets :|05:08
Riffyou touchin' my applets?05:09
Riffright! let's take this outside!05:10
jdubunlike all the other applets, the wireless applet does not have any padding (mostly because the default image is padded already)05:10
Kamionjdub: /etc/ssh/moduli, ssh-keysign, couple of other common things05:15
KamionClint: -server doesn't need scp05:15
Kamiondon't see why it should need the sftp client either really05:15
Kamionoh, scp, yes05:15
cef_workjdub: bugger.. I'll fix that.. sorry05:15
Kamionsorry, it's 0415 here05:15
jdubKamion: was thinking last week - might be cool to have an ssh server with no ssh client05:16
cef_workjdub: want me to repost?05:16
Kamionjdub: I considered that, but decided against it.05:16
jdubcef_work: nah, i've moderated :)05:16
KamionI don't think it's a sufficiently valuable use case to justify the extra package05:16
Kamionsince installing openssh-client is not harmful05:16
cef_workcool.. bah! seems a lot of my mail settings have been reset05:17
Kamionhm, oops, I put sshd_config(5) in openssh-client by mistake05:17
=== tvon_ [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
tvon_Nifty work so far folks.05:38
tvon_While the brown might be a little much, I dig the ubuntu logo/wallpaper bits :)05:39
jdubheh, that will all change ;)05:40
jdub(see the FAQ)05:40
jdubwelcome, btw05:40
tvon_Yeah, was just skimming the faq05:40
tvon_and thanks05:40
=== tvon_ [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
tvon_wrong key05:41
tvon_Live CD default background is nice05:42
=== lamont tries this whole upgrade thing, just to get the latest stuff.
tvon_The 'installer' is basically the latest debian installer, yes?05:43
jdubtvon_: yeah, but way simplified05:44
tvon_I upped from a bastardized testing/unstable system and things seemed to go well05:44
mdztvon_: at its core05:44
tvon_ah, nice05:44
tvon_I'll have to check that out05:44
tvon_bootsplash bits are based on..well, 'bootsplash'?05:46
tvon_(as opposed to rhgb or something like that)05:47
=== tvon_ is now known as tvon|lurking
Kamiontvon|lurking: we're not doing bootsplash for warty, but it's actually going to be a pure userspace thing some of our guys have done themselves05:54
Kamiontvon|lurking: we tried to use bootsplash, but the requirement to build all the framebuffer modules into the kernel broke our installer05:55
=== tvon [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont reboots for giggles and new gnome
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont looks around for fabbione to beat.
lamontI want my resolution back..06:03
mdzlamont: -6ubuntu10?06:04
=== lamont tries dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 instead
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
lamont1280x1024, 16-bit seems to work just fine...06:16
fabbionemorning guys06:36
fabbionelamont: are you on ubuntu10?06:36
lamontfire call - back in a bit06:37
fabbionelamont: ubuntu9 was broken. please upgrade ubuntu1006:38
fabbioneuhuhu we have the fix for XKB06:39
=== fabbione ponders uploading ubuntu11
jdubmore x uploads! :)06:48
=== lamont kicks X
lamonttakes forever and a day to download, you know...06:58
tvonmmm, broadband06:59
mdzlamont: it's faster if you just upgrade it, rather than syncing an entire mirror06:59
fabbionelamont: i have been working 14 hours yesterday to fix all the -reconfigure /upgrade thingy06:59
lamontmdz: yeah, but not by much..06:59
lamontthen again, if I just upgrade it, then I don't go through the straw...07:00
lamontwell, I can bypass the straw, that is.07:00
lamonttvon: I have broadband, but the billing is kinda wierd...07:00
fabbionelamont: you need only xserver-xfree86 and xserver-common from ubuntu1007:00
lamontend result is that I mirror warty at 20kbps07:00
lamontfabbione: but I have 9 and a working X config...07:00
tvonlamont: ah07:01
lamontfabbione: is -11 due anytime soon?07:01
fabbionelamont: dpkg-reconfigure won't work and it will smash your config07:01
fabbionelamont: probably today or tomorrow07:01
lamontfabbione: yeah - I noticed.  But vi works..07:01
lamontfabbione: cool07:01
fabbionelamont: well it's enough you add a line at the end of the file07:01
fabbioneand the config won't be touched anymore07:02
lamontmdz: btw, I just sync main and about 5 packages from universe, not the whole archive07:18
=== lamont heads for bed, forseeing a long day tomorrow.
=== diieman gets the feeling lamont might be better served by weekly cd dumps ;)
fabbionemdz: i agree that we should kill the -novtswitch07:27
mdzfabbione: ok07:27
fabbionedaniels will have time to do it properly07:28
diiemanyeah, hes downloading about 2 cds a week07:28
hrdwrbobwhat's the URL to the isos?07:30
jdubsee the wiki :)07:31
hrdwrboboh der07:32
hrdwrbobunder 'archive'07:32
ik5pvxuhm.... upgrading hal while accessing an USB disc seems not to be a great idea08:16
ik5pvxhmmm... reboot required08:16
ik5pvxhmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... hard boot required08:18
ik5pvxide freezed too08:19
fabbionethat's bad08:23
fabbioneik5pvx: please file a bug08:24
ik5pvxI'm saving the logs right now08:24
ik5pvxwant to see  it before I file a bug ?08:24
fabbionealso... it would be nice to see if it can be reproduced08:24
fabbionejust go ahead.. i will get the mail from the systemm08:24
=== ik5pvx would like to reproduce it on someone else's filesystem <g>
fabbionehey.. i gave you that laptop to play with warty :-)))08:25
fabbioneuse it :P08:25
ik5pvxwill do in a while08:25
jdubmdz: hmm, seems the broadcom in the x300 works with the tg3 driver08:34
=== ploum [~ploum@93-244.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
=== Riff [~davyd@cook.theducks.org] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneik5pvx: i think the problem is related to USB only. all the otherstuff is a chain of things that goes banana09:19
fabbioneor these ones are the bits during the shutdown?09:20
danielsthe kernel with warty seems to hate usb09:21
danielsif i cat /proc/usb/devices with my media reader plugged in, it'll just dump in d09:21
Mithrandirdaniels: seems to work fine on my workstation.09:22
danielsprobably just hates the kt400; i don't blame it09:24
=== fabbione hides
fabbionedaniels: btw ubuntu10 is up with all the fixes09:26
fabbionei am going to upload ubuntu11 that has all the META key fixes09:26
fabbioneand ask sounders to do a good round of autodetection tests09:26
danielsfabbione: ok, cool09:28
danielsi had an ubuntu with novtswitch fixes, and i've been looking at macintosh stuff09:28
danielsas well as having fixed pppoe and a couple of others09:28
danielsmdz has handed me a couple of lovely bugs to hunt down09:28
fabbionedaniels: in ubuntu11 i already killed the novt stuff09:28
danielsfabbione: it was never there09:28
fabbionedaniels: there was the patch09:28
fabbionewe added it in ubuntu6 or something09:28
danielsi looked in ubuntu10 and there was no #91409:31
=== ploum [~ploum@93-244.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneimpossible.. i deleted it only this morning09:32
fabbionebecause i used svn export09:32
fabbionethat's why09:32
fabbioneok.. never mind than09:33
fabbionemy fault09:33
=== fabbione learns about svn status
danielsheh :) that's what you get for using svn :P09:34
ik5pvxfabbione, yes I too think it's a chain reaction. It's strange that udev freezes too, and I couldn't complete the reboot.09:36
fabbioneik5pvx: udev is full of race conditions afaict09:37
ik5pvx(<rant> yeah they replaced a buggy devfs with a buggy udev </rant>)09:37
fabbioneok.. ubuntu11 is up...09:41
=== fabbione gets a little break
=== seb128 [~seb128@ABoulogne-110-1-2-13.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
seb128jdub: here ?10:24
jdubmorning seb10:24
jdubget my mail? :)10:24
seb128hey jdub :)10:24
seb128yes, but I've apt-get source from warty as usual10:24
seb128you've made your changes out of the debian dir ?10:24
seb128I just keep the debian dir between the version ...10:25
seb128for gnome-applets I've this entry in the changelog10:25
seb128"  * Tastier icons for the wireless applet."10:25
jdubsee my .changes entries for file-roller and gnome-applets10:26
Riffthese icons better end upstream10:26
jdubRiff: i just nicked the netapplet ones for now10:26
jdubRiff: but decided not to use those anyway10:26
jdub(they're mobile phone bars, which is inappropriate for wireless)10:26
jdubi'm going to have some new ones made which will be much nicer10:27
seb128jdub: where have you made your changes for the applets ?10:27
jdubseb128: under debian/10:27
Gmana pair of breasts perhaps?10:27
seb128I've apt-get source gnome-applets, grab the debian dir and put it in the new version10:27
jduba bunch of .uu files, a change to debian/rules, and a patch in patches/10:27
jdubi totally uploaded it10:27
RiffGman; how do you represent wireless strength with a pair of breasts?10:27
jdubi can send you the changes :-)10:28
seb128jdub: I've your changelog entry .... I swear I've not changed the debian dir10:28
seb128out of the changelog and control.in for the depends10:28
jdubseb128: does it include the wireless padding patch?10:28
seb128"  * Tastier icons for the wireless applet." is the previous entry10:29
jduband/or comment in the changelog10:29
jdubi'm sure i uploaded them10:29
seb128I've apt-get source gnome-applets10:29
jdubi'll re-upload10:29
jdubthere was the menu change for fileroller, too10:29
seb128 gnome-applets (2.7.2-0ubuntu4) warty; urgency=low10:29
seb128 .10:29
seb128   * debian/patches/07_wireless_padding.patch:10:29
seb128     - add 2 pixels of padding for hboxed applets10:29
GmanRiff, dunno, i'm sure there are ways10:30
seb128perhaps I've not apt-get update and the warty mirror had both versions10:30
jdubyeah, that's the one10:30
seb128jdub: do you still have the changes ? :)10:30
jdubGman: the harder the nipple...10:30
jdubseb128: yeah10:30
seb128if yes, please mail them10:30
Riffjdub; I had wondered that10:30
seb128mental note: the warty mirror can provide old sources, always apt-get update before getting the source package for a new version10:31
seb128jdub: sorry for nucking your changes :p10:31
jdubdon't worry10:32
jdubi love it when you nuck my changes10:32
seb128ah ah10:32
jdubseb128: "it won't matter anymore when we have hct"10:33
seb128BTW we don't have a lot of time before before the release and still a lot of desktop changes/fixes to do10:33
seb128would be nice to get your comments about the menu10:33
jdubyeah, sorry, been away for the weekend 8)10:34
seb128to take a decision about the trash applet (upstream probably in holidays, he doesn't reply)10:34
jdubwhat did we need to decide?10:34
seb128should I start fixing the problem ? Or we just trash the trash applet ? :p10:34
seb128it has some bugs, no animation and no translation10:35
seb128we need to put some efforts in it if we want to ship it10:35
jdubokay, trash it :-)10:36
jdubperhaps put it in supported10:36
jdubhave you put it in debian yet?10:36
jdubif you get time, that might be nice :)10:37
seb128not really the good time to put new stuffs in debian, autobuilders are overloaded and we are trying to release sarge10:37
seb128yes ...10:37
jdubwhenever's handy10:37
seb128BTW that's quick to upload it, I'll try to do it soon10:37
seb128we also need to make changes on the damn battery and wireless applets10:38
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
seb128if you don't have a laptop they keep displays messages10:38
Riffseb128; I fixed the battery applet for desktops I think10:38
RiffI never committed the patch though, because noone has tested it10:39
Riffincluding me10:39
Riffit works on my laptop though10:39
Riffseb128; does this help you: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15089910:40
jdubRiff: what does it do for machines that don't have batteries?10:44
Riffjdub; that's the point, it's meant to say they're on AC power10:44
Riffpersonally I think it's a kernel bug10:45
Riffif you load the battery module without a battery, it should have a state file saying battery: none10:45
Riffor something10:45
jdubwe just want to get rid of it, and remove it from the panel config10:45
jdubseb128: another option is doing some laptop-detect foo and choosing a different default panel profile10:46
=== jdub does a mass upgrade on his newly installed ubuntu/x86 box
RiffI should get a screen and a videocard for my desktop10:48
Riffso I can start playing with it properly10:48
SleepBoBwell, it's not the geforce2mx that's causing the rebooting problems10:54
fabbionerburton: ping11:41
fabbionerburton: sorry i don't understand your answer11:42
fabbioneit is gone, or it is gone adding the resolution?11:42
rburtonadding the resolution lines made the mouse speed reasonable again11:42
=== savs [~savs@jicbioinc1.ext.uea.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu
=== fabbione mumbles
fabbioneadding a fix is not easy....11:43
fabbionei mean an automatic fix...11:43
rburtonyeah, i can imagine11:43
fabbioneit's more the sequence in which things are done than anything else11:44
fabbioneand who will own the fix.11:44
fabbionethe modules are loaded by discover i think, or hotplug11:44
fabbionebut the resolution is set at a much later stage by X11:44
thomRiff: so, now you've fixed forecasts for the UK, can we have weather maps too? :P11:45
fabbioneso theoretically i need to feed these info to hotplug ...11:45
Riffthom; you can put in a custom radar URL11:45
rburtonfabbione: is it possible this is a kernel driver bug, where some mouses send a much higher resolution data than others and the driver doesn't know this?11:45
Riffalso, it's Alan Cox who fixed it11:45
thomoh well11:46
fabbionerburton: yes. it can be everything.11:46
=== jdub has a radar url :)
thomso much for that hope :-)11:46
fabbionerburton: even a mouse that sends more info11:46
jdubthom: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR033.gif11:46
fabbionerburton: i think it's called the repeater or something similar11:46
=== fabbione fires up AC/DC
fabbioneTHUNDER.. AH AH AH AHHH11:47
=== savs is away: biab
=== Gman [~Glynn@222-152-131-41.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu
=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== seb128 [~seb128@ABoulogne-110-1-2-13.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
=== savs is back (gone 00:59:09)
eddyou know what? it's probably a good idea to disable the xscreensaver module that fakes crash screens from windows12:56
thomheh, that might be a good plan12:56
eddi can dual booting users getting a little panicked when that one comes up12:56
ik5pvxyou are probably right, but it's so fun to see those windows people giggle at you "your pc has crashed" and then impressing them with the password for xscreensaver12:57
Riffik5pvx; if only that password dialog wasn't so damned ugly01:30
thomRiff: well, what happened to gscreensaver?01:31
rburtonit never happened?01:32
Riffthom; I has managed not to happen yet01:32
RiffI should get back on with that01:32
rburtoni take it the plan would be to support the xscreensaver hacks but with a nice unlock interface and dbus magic01:33
Riffrburton; pretty much01:34
Riffthe design plan, is to invent a magic auditable way to fit it into xscreensaver01:34
Riffso that jwz won't flame me any more01:35
ik5pvxoh... riff left... anyway, tehre are some configurable items in app-defaults for xscreensaver... at least the colors could be tuned, I think01:37
=== netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
=== Riff [~davyd@cook.theducks.org] has joined #ubuntu
=== jdub [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu
lifelesswhy did my battery applet suddenly go vertical ?01:49
Riffdid your taskbar get bigger?01:53
lifelessI did an aptitude update yesterday, today the battery is vertical not horizontal... harder to read. 01:55
=== ploum [~ploum@93-244.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
=== SleepBoB [hrdwrbob@220-253-14-97.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== lifeless [~robertc@dsl-] has joined #ubuntu
=== Mithrandir [~tfheen@vawad.raw.no] has joined #ubuntu
dokofabbione: how to debug apache2, if each newly created child process immediatly segfaults?02:25
fabbionedoko: summoning thom? ;)02:25
fabbionei am trying to split a package right now to save a few (hundred) Mb for each X uploads02:26
fabbionetho it will suck the first upload02:26
fabbionebut it will save us a lot of bw later on02:26
Oskurofabbione: speaking of X, do you know what the status of the meta/hyper RC bug in Debian's X is?02:30
fabbioneOskuro: debian is pending upload02:30
fabbionefor us the fix is in Ubuntu1102:30
fabbionethat i uploaded this morning02:31
fabbionescary eh?02:31
OskuroRAD! ;)02:31
fabbioneat least they should be working02:33
fabbioneif they don't let me know02:33
fabbionebecause Overfiend was overexcited for the fix02:33
Oskuroso it was recently marked pending, I guess.02:35
OskuroI just looked at the bug today and saw it was pending02:35
Oskurohave I said I *hate* OpenOffice's source, and above that BUILDING openoffice?02:36
fabbioneOskuro: yesterday night02:40
Oskurofabbione: k02:41
=== bskahan [~bskahan@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== fabbione mumbles
seb128Oskuro: do you know how to apply a patch to openoffice package in a proper way ? :)02:57
thomdoko: which versions, what modules do you have loaded?02:57
=== fabbione is close to split xfonts out of xfree86
=== rburton restarts to try new xfree86
Oskuroseb128: I'm leaving this stupid place in 1 minute03:00
Oskurohmm, actually, 20 seconds, but I can tel lyou tomorrow03:00
Oskuroseb128: or #debian-oo03:00
dokothom: current ubuntu, libapache2-mod-python2.303:01
seb128Oskuro: ok03:01
=== doko_ [~doko@dsl-082-083-244-078.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
jdubseb128: you going to do an evo update, or wait to sync with debian?03:05
seb128need to catch up with all the other stuffs and I'll see03:06
seb128probably ask for a sync for a part of the packages03:06
seb128why ?03:06
jdubseb128: just wondering when to do evolution-exchange :)03:07
seb128ok, I'll let you know, hopefully Kitame will update the debian packages soon :)03:07
=== jdub doesn't see unstable status anymore, running garnome on desktop and ubuntu on ibook
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
rburtoncan anyone remember the bug# for they xfree86 stickly windows key bug?03:14
fabbionerburton: ???03:16
seb128rburton: again ?03:17
rburtonyeah, sorry03:17
rburtoni'll write it down this time :)03:17
rburtoni was hoping ubuntu11 contained the fix, but no such luck03:17
rburtonfabbione: does xfree86 guess a keyboard layout from the locale?03:18
fabbionerburton: yes03:18
seb128rburton: #259740 this one ?03:19
fabbionerburton: ubuntu11 has the fixes that will go into Debian for all the <META> keys03:19
fabbionerburton: if it doesn't work please follow up with me and Overfiend 03:19
fabbionebecause it's only in trunk and not part of Debian yet03:19
rburtoni've still got a sticky windows/super key03:19
rburtonas in 25974003:20
fabbionerburton: just a sec03:20
rburtonhow can i reset the keyboard layout, removing any xmodmap commands, whilst in x03:20
fabbionewhy removing any xmodmap commands?03:21
rburtoni've just ran some to fix the sticky super key03:22
rburtoni'll just logout/in again :)03:22
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionerburton: please next time gimme a sec to check the commands :-))))03:25
rburtonright, fresh Xubuntu11, with a sticky super key which means the metacity window switcher won't go away until i release and press super03:25
rburtonfabbione: :)03:25
=== fabbione is not a live enciclopedia :P
rburtoni'd only just logged in so this wasn't a problem, and ensures a clean setup03:26
fabbionerburton: is that the correct behaviour?03:26
fabbioneok, please follow up on the Debian bug.03:26
rburtoni press super, arrows move around the workspaces, but when i let go of super, the popup doesn't go03:26
=== fabbione would love to understand what the "super" key is on hiw keyboard
fabbionedamn keyboard03:27
fabbioneis it ctrl+alt+<arrows>?03:28
rburtonits the windows key for me03:28
fabbionerburton: right or left?03:28
fabbionethey do nothing for me03:29
rburtonkeyboard layout pc10403:29
fabbionesame here03:30
fabbionexfree86, dk layout03:30
rburtoni think metacity uses meta by default as the hotkey03:31
fabbionei am running a "standard" desktop installation03:32
fabbioneno local modification or anything03:32
fabbionekinda to keep it as neutral as possible03:32
seb128here that's ctrl+alt too03:33
fabbionectrl+alt+<arrows> works for me03:33
fabbioneas soon as i release any of the buttons the popup goes away03:33
seb128me too03:34
fabbioneso that's correct.. i guess03:34
seb128the problem is with the windows key, not with alt03:35
fabbioneyeah i got that03:36
tvonWith the left or right ctrl/alt keys?03:36
fabbionerburton: please follow up on the Debian bug, exaplaning that you are using svn trunk version of X and that i told you to do so03:36
tvonLeft keys work fine for me, right keys cause the popup to stay03:36
rburtonfabbione: am doing so now03:36
fabbionerburton: thanks a lot03:37
=== tvon tips his hat
=== tvon [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #ubuntu ["Leaving"]
fabbionetvon|lurking: right.. i can see that too03:37
Kamionwoo, finally finished the base-config merge, I think03:38
Kamionthat was inordinately painful03:39
lifelessdebian->ubuntu merge ?03:39
=== crevette_ [~crevette@ip-24.net-82-216-186.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneKamion: what's new and hot in base-config?03:40
Kamion  * Merge to warty, mainly for translation updates, debconf preseeding, and03:40
Kamion    GDM language setting.03:40
fabbioneoh ok03:40
fabbionenice :)03:40
Kamionthe last was the impetus, but the second would be *really* nice if we can make it work in warty03:40
seb128hey crevette 03:41
=== crevette_ is now known as crevetteZulu
crevetteZuluthe new xfree resolved res detection03:42
fabbionecrevetteZulu: so it works fine for you?03:43
crevetteZuluI'm just a the step two03:45
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
crevetteZulubut at this point the XF86config is feed with accurate frequency03:47
crevetteZuluand it's better03:47
crevetteZuluthe process detection even my monitor and VGA card information03:47
crevetteZuluit the last update is only for laptop user ? because i'm a wkstation user and It's even better :)03:52
fabbioneno it's for everybody03:53
fabbionelaptop and workstations03:53
crevetteZuluI will try with the last and final step03:53
crevetteZulusee you03:53
=== crevetteZulu [~crevette@ip-24.net-82-216-186.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu
crevetteZuluback again04:05
crevetteZulustep 3 didn't worked for me04:05
crevetteZuluonly a blinking led on my monitor04:05
lifelessmy battery status applet has died :[04:08
lifelessanyone want a bug report?04:08
thomlifeless: well, yes. bugzilla does04:08
lifelessno idea how to reproduce...04:09
Rifflifeless; I think I've fixed it04:09
fabbionecrevetteZulu: ok. can you send us all the info, like video card, logs, configurations and so on?04:09
Riffwhat version of the applet are you running?04:09
fabbionecrevetteZulu: at least to have an idea of what is wrong and what needs to be fixed04:09
Riffyou probably need to try 2.7.304:12
lifelessok, that is probably in my aptitude download now.04:12
Riffhang on, I'll get a stack trace to compare yours against04:12
lifelesslet me attach gdb04:12
crevetteZuluI forgot to keep a log of the step 304:13
lifelesshah. 04:13
lifelessNo stack.04:13
Rifflifeless; that's ok then04:13
lifelessah. my bad04:14
lifeless(gdb) bt04:14
lifeless#0  0x4070401e in __read_nocancel () from /lib/tls/libpthread.so.004:14
lifeless#1  0x408a62c1 in g_vasprintf () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#2  0x4087e231 in g_io_channel_get_encoding () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#3  0x4087ed34 in g_io_channel_read_line_string () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#4  0x4087eb4a in g_io_channel_read_line_string () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#5  0x08051764 in acpi_process_event ()04:14
lifeless#6  0x0804d6a4 in acpi_callback ()04:14
lifeless#7  0x408a622f in g_vasprintf () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
Riffcompare to this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15141204:14
lifeless#8  0x408837ed in g_main_depth () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#9  0x40884818 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#10 0x40884b3a in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#11 0x40885113 in g_main_loop_run () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.004:14
lifeless#12 0x401fcbbf in bonobo_main () from /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so.004:14
lifeless#13 0x401faf12 in bonobo_generic_factory_main_timeout () from /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so.004:14
lifeless#14 0x401fae32 in bonobo_generic_factory_main () from /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so.004:14
fabbionecrevetteZulu: i know it's a bit long procedure... but would you mind to do step 3 again?04:14
lifeless#15 0x4002ffd9 in panel_applet_factory_main_closure () from /usr/lib/libpanel-applet-2.so.004:14
lifeless#16 0x400300f2 in panel_applet_factory_main () from /usr/lib/libpanel-applet-2.so.004:14
lifeless#17 0x08050f9b in main ()04:14
lifelessnope, not even close.04:14
=== fabbione begs for no paste in the chan
crevetteZulufabbione, yes yes of course04:15
crevetteZuluI 'll do that right now04:15
fabbionecrevetteZulu: thanks a lot!04:15
Rifflifeless; can you file it then?04:15
=== fabbione really appreciates help
lifelessbah, gnome-applets is missing from the component list04:16
Riffgo to bugzilla.gnome.org04:16
lifelesserr. Surely I should be filing this against ubuntu bugzilla.04:16
=== justdave_ [~dave@] has joined #ubuntu
thomand then seb has to move it upstream, so you might just as well :-)04:17
Rifflifeless; unless you can establish it's a bug in some ubuntu specific bug04:17
lifelessI've always had the precedence the other way around... distro first, which triages, then upstream.04:18
Riffare ubuntu patching gnome-applets?04:18
Kamionit's not that; if there's something release-critical that we need to fix then it needs to be in our bug tracking system for tracking04:18
lifelessI don't know. And then there is Kamions point too.04:19
=== lifeless decides to put it in nny, against gnome-control-centre for now.
Rifflifeless; it looks vaguely like something in GNOME, which means I want to fix it for GNOME 2.8 anyway04:19
Kamionwe have a few patches, not large04:19
Riffare you fiddling with the battery ACPI code?04:19
lifelessme? no.04:20
Kamionthere's a call to update_ac_info() added to battstat/acpi-linux.c04:20
RiffI mean ubuntu04:20
lifelessbug #94004:20
Riffhmm, it could be an ubuntu bug then04:23
Riffthis makes me less concerned04:23
Kamionlifeless: generally, if the correct component doesn't exist, use UNKNOWN.04:26
Kamion(and whine at mdz to create the component ...)04:26
=== crevetteZulu [~crevette@ip-24.net-82-216-186.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu
crevetteZulufabbione, I put all my log and conf on bmm80.free.fr/ubuntu/xfree8604:30
lamontdiieman: the warty mirror would go faster if it wasn't competing with a sid partial-mirror as well.. :-)04:31
=== lamont wants "focus follows thought"
=== StoneTable [~stone@] has joined #ubuntu
thomlamont: sawfish is written in lithp, so i'm sure you could work something out04:33
=== lamont adds "learn lisp" to the bottom of his todo list.
crevetteZululamont, what is "focus follow thought" ?04:34
lamontas opposed to following 'pointer', or 'click on window'.  I just want the right window to have focus when I think about it. ;-)04:34
fabbionecrevetteZulu: can you tar them up and send them via email?04:34
fabbioneit's easier for me to keep track of stuff04:35
fabbionefabbione@fabbione.net is a good option :-)04:35
crevetteZululamont, because I would propose to test devilspie but it not implement this :)04:35
thomedd: hey, what dirs do you have in /proc/acpi/button ? same to anyone else with a acpi using laptop04:40
seb128jdub: around ?04:40
eddthom: my tr1mp is updating windows xp, can't answer right now :)04:40
thomgar, useless :-)04:40
eddthom: but, my thinkpad a22m has lid, power, sleep04:41
thomyeah, the ibms have sane names.04:41
thomit's all the other crap i'm worried about :-)04:41
eddwell, i'm sorry for having an ibm to hand04:41
eddi'll try and be crapper next time04:41
RiffI have lid, power04:41
=== edd whips self with an XF86Config-4 file
Riffon a Toshiba04:42
Riffbut Toshiba have good ACPI support04:42
thomRiff: cool, thanks04:42
thomwhat do tosh call your batteries, out of interest?04:42
RiffBAT1 on my machine04:42
thom*nod*. the HPs apparently call them stuff like C13904:43
eddBAT0,BAT1 on the ibm04:44
=== [Clint] [~c123p456@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionedaniels: wake up kid04:57
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu
ik5pvxuff... message size limit05:05
lamonthrm.. metacity got confused...05:11
lamontrhythmbox died, but the window remains.05:11
fabbionehye lamont 05:12
=== lamont learns to speel
lamontmorning fabbione05:12
fabbioneok... this is cool..05:13
fabbionei can build only X fonts out of a stripped Xfree86 tree05:14
=== fabbione ponders to do a xfonts source package and remove fonts from X
lamontmeaning that there's hope for splitting them out for hoary?05:14
fabbionethat would simply stop you guys from having to upgrade fonts each time i upload X05:14
fabbionelamont: actually i was thinking to do it in the next 2/3 days05:15
fabbioneit's a package split05:15
fabbionenothing incredible like doing x.org05:15
lamontthat smells like a feature change05:15
lamontadding a new source package05:15
fabbioneit's the same source of xfree8605:15
fabbionejust stripped down05:16
fabbioneno changes to the sources05:16
lamontbut if you can convince mdz/jdub that it's OK, more power to you05:16
fabbioneonly to a couple of Imakefiles05:16
fabbioneit would be a "one time" upload05:16
fabbioneonce it's there... no more05:16
fabbioneand i can disable building of fonts in x with one line change in debian/rules05:17
lamontpb is, it's not currently "broken" (just annoying)05:17
fabbione(or almost)05:17
fabbionei know05:17
lamonthence "unnecessary change" ==> "we're frozen, dude"05:17
lamontmaybe simpler to just make sure -ubuntu11 is the perfect thing, so that it's what ships on warty, eh?05:18
Kamionyarrr, /etc/environment and /etc/default/gdm handling is complicated05:18
fabbione18880 -rw-r--r--    1 fabbione src      19307067 Aug 31 15:18 xfonts86-4.3.0.tar.gz05:19
fabbione58452 -rw-r--r--    1 fabbione src      59789181 Apr 21 07:34 xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz05:19
fabbionelamont: see why?05:19
fabbionelamont: there will be an ubuntu12 at least05:19
fabbionelamont: but not that urgent05:19
fabbioneubuntu11 has been a huge improvements over < ubuntu1005:19
Kamionseb128: are we going to merge gdm from Debian?05:31
Kamionseb128: I need some of the adjustments it made to LANG handling05:31
Kamionseb128: (I'm happy to merge just that one change though, and can do that now)05:31
seb128Kamion: hum05:31
seb128we have some changes in the warty package05:33
seb128if the change is easy to merge, could you just to this for the moment, I'll try to have a look on the new debian package to merge the warty changes in it latter05:34
Kamionit's just init and postinst05:35
pittiAAAARGH! Since when the first installed Warty user has complete root capabilities through sudo?05:38
Kamionpitti: last week05:38
pittiKamion: but why shall we go back to Windows 95, security-wise?05:39
=== Kamion is just following instructions here; mdz approved it ...
pittiKamion: up to now I told every Linux user that he should work as a normal user to avoid system damage...05:39
seb128don't shoot the messenger :)05:39
pittiseb128, Kamion: I don't want to shoot anybody :-), I just got very, very frightened...05:40
pittiI will talk to mdz about this.05:40
KamionI'm not enormously happy with it myself, but everyone seemed to think it was a good idea *shrug*05:40
seb128for my part I don't like to have a system without the root password after the installation05:41
seb128that's kind of weird05:41
pittiBut actually the separation of system administartion and normal usage was one of the best features of Unix05:41
ik5pvxI don't like it either, but I'm trying to sticking with it to see if I can get used to it05:41
pittiseb128: FULL ACK. Then we could as well have all people work as root05:41
rburtonpitti: it has been said this will be an option for systems where it isn't a good idea05:41
rburtonit's a great idea for home system, bad idea for office systems05:42
pittirburton: IMNSHO it isn't a good idea on _every_ system. *shrug*05:42
Kamiondo you mean "on any system"?05:42
pittiKamion: right, I do. Non-native english...05:43
Kamionboth are valid English but mean different things :-)05:43
pittiKamion: I know the difference, just a typo. BTW, d-i now works just _great_!05:43
pittiKamion: no more silly network questions05:43
rburtoni think sudo is great. we're moving to giving our admins sudo root access to avoid typing in that nasty root password all the time05:43
pittirburton: yes, but then we should install two users: an administrator and a day-to-day user, not just one administrator05:44
rburtonwhy? i can't do root things unless i sudo05:44
pittirburton: but what keeps a virus or other malicious program to use sudo as well?05:45
pittis/keeps to/keeps from/05:45
pittirburton: entering a password is only required at the first time, then it is kept for a while05:46
rburtonin the end, little difference. but the less the root password is shipped around, the better05:46
thompitti: we have tty_tickets turned on, by the way05:46
thompitti: so the virus would have to be running on the same tty as the user sudoing05:46
pittithom: do you think that is uncommon?05:47
=== tvon [~tvon@h-68-166-65-79.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionthat would be the normal case, I'd have thought05:47
pittithom: if I do some admin stuff under X, then go to Evolution and download a virus mail?05:47
pittithom: will that work with tty_tickets?05:48
ik5pvxwouldn't that be bound to some pty ?05:48
thompitti: sure, each x term gets a different tty - look at the output of w05:48
thomsudo enabled apps like gnome-system-tools would require testing, tho. i have no idea how that works05:49
pittithom: but normally users won't start programs in xterm (okay I do, but I'm not an average user)05:50
pittithom: thanks for that info. I will look at it, at least it seems not to be as bad as I initially thought.05:50
thompitti: i suspect the correct thing for X applications (ie, things running on :0) is to not cache a ticket05:51
ik5pvxwhat I've noticed so far, is that I open 4 xterms and fire "sudo bash" in one of them much like I use to run "su" in plain debian05:51
Kamionthom: YES05:52
thom(which is the behaviour OS X has, also)05:52
Kamionit's crucial that people get warned when something is requesting root privilege05:53
thombut we need to fix up gksu to use sudo anyway05:53
thomKamion: *nod*05:53
KamionI thought the consensus was that we needed to fix all the .desktop files05:53
Kamionsince gksu/gksudo looks at argv[0]  to figure out how to act05:53
thomi hadn't seen any consensus, but if that's the case, great05:54
Kamionlamont: have any of the amd64 buildds tried to build debian-installer yet? All the build-deps should be there now.05:58
lamontKamion: checking06:03
lamontpcmcia-storage-modules-2.6.7-5-amd64-generic-di dep-wait cleared.06:04
pittimdz: I would still like it best to have a strict root/user separation, but maybe I'm just too conservative06:04
Kamionlamont: aha06:05
Kamionlet me know if it breaks, I'll apply a hammer06:05
mdzpitti: it is a usability problem for the user to remember two passwords, especially when one of them is almost never used06:05
pittimdz: just because the people are misled by windows, we still should teach them about different roles about using a computer, don't?06:05
=== lamont uploads a new-and-less-annoyed subversion.
pittimdz: agreed about the remembering of the root password. hmmm.06:06
pittimdz: what about setting up the same password for root by default?06:06
thompitti: but then user changes password, root doesn't change, more confusion06:06
thom(and at that point, you might just as well use sudo)06:06
pittimdz: not for people used to Unix already06:07
mdzpitti: yeah, we discussed that and it was as thom says06:07
mdzpitti: people used to unix will immediately "sudo passwd root"06:07
KamionWe can easily set timestamp_timeout=0 for just the initially created user06:07
pittithom: I think there is a difference: scripts may use sudo, but cannot login as root06:07
pittimdz: okay, if this was already discussed to death, I will shut up.06:07
thomsetting the timestamp seems reasonable06:08
Kamionpitti: this is a pretty new thing, I think discussion is still perfectly reasonable ...06:08
pittiKamion: I will try to do some bad things with the sudo approach. I know too little about it to really give competent statements, I think.06:09
Kamionbase-config (2.44ubuntu2) UNRELEASED; urgency=low06:10
Kamion  * lib/menu/passwd: Set timestamp_timeout=0 for the initial user's sudoers06:10
Kamion    entry.06:10
pittimdz: BTW, many friends of mine don't know what 'sudo' is (sudo passwd root), but they are used to different computer usage roles.06:10
mdzpitti: the last screen of the installer should explain how to set the root password06:11
mdzKamion: did that make it onto your todo list?06:11
mdzthe last screen of base-config, that is06:11
pittimdz: and how to disable universal user admin rights06:11
Kamionthe last screen, not the password setting screen?06:11
mdztimestamp_timeout=0 makes it much less usable for the command line06:12
mdzKamion: what do you think?06:12
pittiKamion, mdz: instead of printing three or four commands, can we have a small script for that?06:12
thommdz: nod. can we set it just for things running on :0 ?06:12
KamionI guess it's a final-message thing06:12
mdzthom: I think it's only global06:12
mdzKamion: yeah, I was thinking it was, but then, the last message is worded such that people don't generally read it06:12
mdz"this says I'm done <dismiss>"06:12
KamionI'd be more comfortable with it not caching tickets by default06:12
KamionI think the change will be an easier sell that way06:13
pittiKamion: agreed06:13
Kamionmdz: true, but that applies to most of the installer06:13
Kamion"this is some informational text, I don't need to read this <dismiss>"06:13
pittiKamion: "Security advice, please read carefully:" ?06:14
mdzthe default configuration should at least please the beginner *or* the power user as much as possible06:14
pittiKamion: there will still be people who ignore it, but they won't care much about security anyway06:14
mdzif we try to please both, I think we end up pleasing neither06:14
Kamionmdz: easy to put a comment in /etc/sudoers about it ... power users can remove it06:14
pittiIf we have to pick, we should pick the beginner.06:14
mdzand it is much easier for the power user to customize the configuration06:14
mdzpitti: right06:15
KamionI don't think having to enter your *own* password each time you want to do something rootly is a usability problem06:15
pittialthough from a security POV it should be secure by default. Wham. Contradiction.06:15
pittibut I think you cannot have both, secure and user friendly contradict inherently.06:15
Kamionthat's a bit fatalistic :-)06:16
pittiKamion: no, in fact I think it is one of the basic wisdoms of system construction06:16
mdzsudo fulfills the safety requirement quite well, I think06:17
fabbionemdz: would you consider a package split a feature?06:17
mdzespecially with no caching, the user will always be prompted before they begin a potentially dangerous action06:17
pittimdz: but still this should be explained somewhere06:17
mdzfabbione: context?06:17
fabbionemdz: splitting xfonts* out of xfree86*. one upload for the rest of the life and that's it06:17
mdzand in reality, it is actually quite close from a security perspective06:18
mdzanyone who is able to take over a uid of a user who uses su *or* sudo has root06:18
Mithrandirmdz: fwiw, on MOSX apps, if you are in a "dangerous" application, you have the lock in the bottom right.. would something similar work?06:18
mdzMithrandir: that'd be neat, something to look at for Hoary maybe06:18
mdzfabbione: splitting the source package you mean?06:19
pittimdz, Kamion: right now, gksu asks for a root password, which I don't have. I assume this will get fixed?06:19
fabbionemdz: yes. same binary packages.06:19
lamontmdz: context can be found in scrollback at ~0818 PDT06:19
MithrandirI don't think copying what windows or macos is doing just because they are doing it is any good, but looking at them and what they do well is, IMHO, very useful.06:19
Kamionpitti: that's definitely considered a bug06:19
mdzfabbione: I would prefer to avoid it at this stage.  this is something that has gone into XSF svn, I assume?06:19
Kamionpitti: (that we use gksu rather than gksudo, that is)06:20
fabbionemdz: basically each xfree86 upload will NOT force users to upgrade 100Mb of fonts for nothing06:20
mdzyes, I believe jdub is fixing that06:20
fabbionemdz: no something i did in my spare time.06:20
fabbiones/spare/hobby/ or whatever06:20
fabbioneit's not in svn yet and it won't be for sarge06:20
=== tvon [~tvon@h-68-166-65-79.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net] has left #ubuntu ["Leaving"]
pittimdz: good news! sid's and warty's hotplug packages already support per-package usb usermaps, so I can modify libgphoto to automatically allow camera access to users06:21
fabbionepitti: cool... because i bought a digital camera today :-906:21
pittifabbione: well, if it supports usb-storage you won't have a problem anyway06:22
pittifabbione: does it?06:22
fabbionepitti: i can't say yet.. battery has to charge for 12 hours the first time :(((06:22
mdzfabbione: it would be nice, but stability is more important that convenience now that we are in feature freeze06:22
mdzpitti: great!06:22
pittimdz: it is a small change, no code modification necessary06:22
pittimdz: sorry, I think that did not apply to gphoto, did it?06:23
fabbionemdz: if i do it and it works.. would you accept it?06:23
seb128mdz: could we get bugzilla components for xscreensaver, gnome-applets and trashapplet ?06:26
danielsfabbione: ber06:28
danielsthom: my OmniBook called my batteries BAT0 and BAT106:29
fabbionedaniels: ?06:30
danielsfabbione: 'wake up kid'06:30
danielsthom: also, why did you give me 842, take it back, then give it to me, and seemingly take it back again?06:30
thomdaniels: didn't. i gave you something completely different, took it back, then gave you the correct bug06:31
fabbionedaniels: oh... hmmm... i can't remember...06:32
danielsthom: oh, right06:32
fabbionedaniels: i am getting old06:32
danielsfabbione: yes ;P06:32
fabbionedaniels: oh yeah.. it was about the xfonts...06:32
fabbionedaniels: just read above06:32
danielsfabbione: sure, i have split source packages for xfonts ready to go06:33
fabbionedaniels: so do i06:33
fabbioneExtracting source xfonts86-4.3.0.tar.gz ... successful.06:34
danielsfabbione: yes, but yours suck :P06:34
=== doko_ [~doko@dsl-082-083-139-070.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
danielsdon't build them, it's a waste of time06:34
fabbionedaniels: it's a waste of bw each time we upload X06:34
danielsbuild them once as little-endian, let the others cop the tiny overhead of byte-swapping; core fonts are shit anyway06:35
danielsfabbione: yes, i know. that's why i advocate splitting the fonts.06:35
danielsbut, you can just do it like my xfonts package, which only ever runs 'install'06:35
danielsno building, no invocation of imake, no gzip06:35
fabbionedaniels: we still build them once... just do it once and stop doing it.. that was the idea06:35
danielsyou just ship some pre-gzipped little-endian fonts06:35
danielsfabbione: right. do you want the source package that does that, and nothing else? it's right here :)06:35
fabbionedaniels:  have a package already06:36
fabbionewe still need mdz blessing for anything06:36
fabbioneotherwise it's hoary feature06:36
danielsi'll put mine up tomorrow ehN i wake uip (it's 0236), if you could put yours up in the meantime that would be great06:36
fabbioneat that point fonts will be "irrelevant" from xfree8606:36
fabbionedaniels: i will see if i finish with all the details06:36
fabbionei am cleaning up the debs now06:36
fabbionetho i have spend only a hour or so on it06:37
danielsbut yeah, I just did a neat little trick with a for loop and dpkg -L06:37
danielsor reading *.install, or whatever it was06:37
danielsbut either way, end result was i just put the .pcf.gz's into a few separate directories, tared it up and called it a source package, and the build just uses install(1)06:37
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-139-070.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
daniels(they didn't all convert cleanly to ttf, and i didn't have time)06:38
fabbionedaniels: no i actually stripped down to minimum the xfree86.orig.tar.gz and still build them.06:38
fabbioneit doesn't take long really06:38
danielsit actually takes a bit, and it's totally unnecessary06:38
fabbionebecause it's easy to keep in sync with xfree86 tree06:38
fabbioneit's all patched and nice and dandy :-)06:39
danielswhich never changes :P06:39
fabbione+ you need to provide the source anyway06:39
danielsi dunno, i just figure that if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right06:39
fabbioneand a build method06:39
danielsdude, that's close enough to source. anyone who cares that much about that crap can go bitch about sounds without source.06:39
danielsi can see not shipping gzip'ed, and also that being a good idea06:40
danielsbut i don't see the point of always building them06:40
mdzpitti: I was talking about the font stuff06:40
fabbionedaniels: always = one time06:40
fabbionedaniels: of course... if you do it right06:40
danielsfabbione: still don't see the point, to be honest06:40
danielsi just think it's overengineering, and a waste of time :) but hey, it's not my time being wasted, so 'sup to you06:40
mdzfabbione: I would really prefer not to change the packaging in that way when we are so close to release; the benefit to users of the Warty release is practically nil06:40
danielsin the meantime, I'm going to attempt to garner some sleep06:41
danielsmdz: it's a huge boon to me, let me tell you that now06:41
mdzseb128: yes, I'll add them06:41
fabbionemdz: ok.. it will wait hoary and daniels packages :P06:41
danielsmdz: the appearance (e.g. binary) doesn't change06:41
seb128mdz: ok, thanks06:41
danielsho hum06:41
fabbionemdz: i will send you lamont complains on each X upload ... ;)06:41
=== fabbione runs away
mdzseb128: done06:42
fabbionemdz: anyway.. i was kidding before.. it's fine by me.06:43
fabbioneit's there and it's ready06:43
seb128mdz: libgtop2 (which is a part of the GNOME desktop) has just made a soname change. Warty has only 2 reverse depends on it, there is no problem to update to the new version now (I've the 3 packages ready, just checking) ?06:44
mdzseb128: sounds fine06:44
mdzpitti: did you see my mail to the list about pmount/gvm?  how are we going to handle unmounting?06:57
pittimdz: I'm at the phone, will return later06:58
=== elmo [~james@] has joined #ubuntu
pittimdz: I'm back, sorry, was a long talk.07:20
pittimdz: I read it.07:20
pittimdz: To me it seems that the most consistent and intuitive way of umounting the device is to close the nautilus window07:21
pittimdz: but the problem is what to do if there is still a process using the device07:21
mdzpitti: fuser -k? :-)07:22
pittimdz: isn't there a context menu entry of "ejecting" the device?07:22
mdzclosing the nautilus window sounds quite nice; is that actually straightforward to implement?07:22
mdzI did not see one07:22
pittimdz: the safest method is still to do the ejecting manually07:22
pittimdz: I don't know anything about the gnome stuff, so I cannot say how easy it is07:22
mdzpitti: this is a USB flash reader; the hardware doesn't actually have an 'eject' concept07:22
mdzbut I stil need to unmount it before i can disconnect the device or remove the card from the slot07:23
pittimdz: I would still prefer either a context menu (umount, eject, release, whatever) or a small icon07:23
Mithrandirmdz: nautilus could send "window closed" messages onto the dbus? ;)07:23
pittimdz: Windows calls it "safe remove" IIRC07:23
mdzseb128: how is eject/remove supposed to work in nautilus?07:23
seb128mdz: right click on the device icon, eject/umount 07:24
pittiseb128: ah, that's why I'm unable to umount the device on my iBook :-)07:24
mdzI didn't get a device icon07:25
seb128in the computer place ?07:25
mdzneither on the desktop, nor the Computer icon07:25
seb128is the device listed in fstab ?07:25
mdzno, this was a removable device mounted by pmount07:25
mdzvia g-v-m07:25
seb128nautilus uses fstab07:25
mdznautilus should rather use mtab, shouldn't it?07:26
seb128hum, yes07:26
seb128but I think it manages only the devices listed in fstab07:26
pittiseb128: npmccallum already prepared a version which uses pmount07:27
pittiseb128: and doesn't need an fstab entry07:27
seb128ok, cool07:27
pittiseb128: is it possible to include an eject/umount/whatever option in the normal nautilus menu? I don't have a context menu07:28
pittiseb128: (because Ubuntu doesn't automatically install mouse button emulation)07:28
=== ploum is now known as ploum_a_le_pseud
=== ploum_a_le_pseud is now known as ploum_tout_court
seb128pitti: I don't think so, but I'm sure there is a keyboard shortcut to open the menu07:29
pittiseb128: do you also happen to know which?07:30
seb128I'm searching .... 07:30
seb128I've not given it directly because I don't remember :)07:31
pittiseb128: don't bother, if you don't know I can google myself07:32
pittiseb128: Shift-F1007:33
seb128oh yes07:33
seb128I've tried ctrl+F10 07:33
seb128but not shift :)07:33
pittiseb128: so do you see any obstacles for adding the same context menu entry for pmounted devices which don't have a fstab entry?07:34
seb128should not be a problem07:35
=== tvon [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
pittiseb128: this will require to use 'pumount /dev/foo' instead of 'umount /dev/foo', other changes should not be necessary07:37
pittifabbione: congrats! I just installed the latest warty ppc daily build, and it installed X without a single question. Cool!07:42
fabbionepitti: does it work? ;)07:45
pittifabbione: like a charm :-)07:46
pittifabbione: it even picked the correct resolution07:46
pittifabbione: my last daily build cd set up 800x60007:46
fabbionenice :-)07:46
pittifabbione: however, I did not look which driver it uses, have to do that tomorrow. I have to go now (Tae Kwon Do training)07:47
pittifabbione: but even if it is the vesa driver, it is just a nice install experience07:47
pittisee you tomorrow, guys!07:47
fabbionepitti: thanks :-)))07:47
fabbionehave fun07:47
mjg59I'm testing Sounder 7 on an old Digital laptop08:08
mjg59It's got a CMD646 IDE chipset. Whenever ubuntu tries to touch stuff on the IDE bus, I get DMA timeout errors.08:08
mjg59Is there any way to disable DMA?08:08
=== diieman is now known as dieman
diemanmjg59: ide=nodma?08:11
Kamionmdz: so, am I doing the timestamp_timeout=0 thing or not? I'm about to upload base-config for another reason ...08:13
mjg59dieman: Does giving that to the kernel work, or does it need to be a module paramater?08:13
mdzKamion: it's OK with me if you and pitti agree08:13
Kamionhm, he's left08:14
=== ploum_ [~ploum@231-238.243.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
KamionOK, we'll try it out and see what people make of the dailies08:14
mdzKamion: it sounded like there was a consensus on #warthogs08:14
mdzapart from me, anyway; I'm undecided08:14
Kamionwell, it's easily reversible if need be08:15
mjg59Oh, no, hang on08:18
mjg59"PCI: Device 000:00:09.0 not available because of resource collisions"08:18
diemanmjg59: oh god, i dont know if you can just give that to the kernel08:20
diemanmjg59: is it trying to use acpi?08:21
mjg59No, it's too ancient for that08:21
mjg59It's a Pentium 23308:21
mjg59Might be worth a go08:21
mjg59I'm just going to skip loading the module for now08:21
=== lamont__ [~lamont@mesaradio41.customer.frii.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamiondo we want ACPI (e.g. fan module) support in the installer?08:28
Kamionif so, does it count as a feature? :-) I'm going to need to pull in various bits from unstable ...08:28
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionhm, I think I can convince main-menu to save the debconf priority when you back up and then restore it when you select a menu item08:52
Kamionthat would make d-i's backup behaviour much more intuitive08:52
mdzthat would be excellent08:55
mdzKamion: does Keybuk's laptop overheat itself during the install if we don't?08:55
lamont__burning keybuks legs could be considered a bug or a feature, depending on perspective... :-)08:57
Kamiondunno ...08:57
Kamionmmm, crispy fried Keybuk08:57
lamont__cranky crispy fried Keybuk08:58
mdzhey, Keybuk is around; he just posted to the list09:09
mdzhe's just hiding09:09
mdzKamion: can you send him an email and ask him about the ACPI stuff?09:10
mjg59thom: Found a laptop without ACPI or a dmi table09:18
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
KamionKeybuk: do you think we need ACPI fan module support in d-i?09:46
Kamionas in, will your laptop overheat if we don't?09:47
Keybukit's a good point09:47
KeybukI suspect the answer is yet09:47
Keybukif the kernel has ACPI support enabled on boot, then it'll tell modern laptops not to do any power management of their own -- so yeah, will need the thermal + fan modules loaded09:48
KamionAug 31 19:49:21 (none) user.info main-menu[505] : INFO: Restoring default debconf priority 'critical'09:49
Kamionso much better09:49
jdubKamion: yo yo10:33
jdubKamion: did we decide against hdparm in d-i?10:33
jdubseb128: around10:34
mdzis there some way to tell pbbuttonsd (or whatever would be responsible) to set the fan to a certain minimum speed?10:35
mdzthe fan in this thing is constantly speeding up and slowing down, and it's very distracting10:35
elmomdz: no, the fan stuff on new powerbooks seems to be hardcoded into the kernel, it's very distressing10:36
elmo(well, I'm assuming you're on a powerbook...)10:36
mdzthis is a desktop, but it seems to support the same power management interface10:36
mdz/dev/pmu and all that10:36
Keybukon ACPI PCs you can fiddle with /proc/acpi to change your fan trip points; dunno if there's a Macequivalent10:36
mdzthat was my question :-)10:37
elmomdz: if it's using therm_adt76x or whatever it is, same problem10:37
elmoif it's something else, there may be /proc hooks10:37
mdzseems to use therm_windtunnel10:37
mdzwell great10:38
mdzin fact, loading that module seems to have helped a lot10:38
=== Keybuk calls for the screencleaner
mdzTemp: 34.5 C  Hyst: 75.0 C  OS: 80.0 C10:38
mdzReducing overheating limit to 65.0 C (Hyst: 60.0 C)10:38
mdzCPU-temp: 34.7 C, Case: 32.3 C,  Fan: 0 (tuned -11)10:38
Kamionjdub: I think we decided for it, I just haven't done it yet ...10:40
Kamionjdub: in fact, how about I file a bug so that I remember10:40
jdubahr, ok :)10:40
=== Keybuk contemplates a new iMac
eddi like all the white plastic - you could use a board marker to take notes on it!10:50
Keybukthey're really going for white-plastic at the moment, aren't they10:51
fabbioneKeybuk: thanks for testing10:54
Keybukfabbione: other than baby-daniel's failure to upload a working version of discover1-data ... it looked great10:54
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu
pittimdz: we still need a new group for allowing local user access to removeable devices. I'd favor a single group for USB sticks, cameras and FireWire devices, do you think we should split that into several groups?10:59
jdubKeybuk: the best feature of the new imac is that the old imacs are going to be cheaper!11:00
mjg59finger isn't in the default install?11:01
jdubit's in supported11:01
mjg59sudo gives warnings if it's run on a system installed without networking11:02
mjg59"unable to lookup foo via gethostbyname()"11:02
mjg59I gave it a hostname, but the only entry in /etc/hosts is localhost11:03
mjg59(Sounder 7)11:03
thomedd: sup?11:07
mjg59thom: I have an "interesting" laptop for you11:08
thommjg59: yeah, that looked kinda scary11:08
thommjg59: what is it?11:08
mjg59thom: It's a Digital Hinote - circa 1997, at a guess11:08
mjg59Pentium 23311:08
thomRUN AWAY!11:08
mjg59Only thing that springs to mind is to have a kernel with apm support (the kernel will fall back to it if acpi fails) and then check the apm bios for a battery11:09
eddthom: acpi results for you11:09
thomedd: ahah :-)11:09
pittiKamion: still there?11:10
thommjg59: seems a reasonable move11:10
Kamionpitti: not for much longer, but yeah11:10
eddthom: on the sony tr1mp there are two directories, 'lid' and 'power', inside lid is another directory, LID0 with files 'info' and 'state'. inside power is PWRB, with one file 'info'11:10
thomthat's what i wanted to hear11:11
pittiKamion: we still need another group to put the first user in, for accessing removeable devices like cameras, usb sticks, etc.11:11
pittiKamion: we want to restrict mount/umount access to this group 11:12
pittiKamion: and also gphoto device node access11:12
=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
pittiKamion: but this must be done already in base-config11:12
pittiKamion: the name was slightly discussed in #810, but it did not come to a conclusion11:13
tvon|lurkingIRT: Warty Bounties: GNOME GUI for bittorrent - I'd suggest gnome-btdownload11:14
eddGreat for stealing things!11:16
eddSo, do we get libdvdcss too?11:16
jdubno :)11:16
eddAh, so warty will let me steal movies but not play the ones I own :)11:17
Gmanisn't the background image enough?11:17
Gman[sorry, couldn't resist] 11:17
jdubtvon|lurking: you can add that as a comment to the wiki if you want :)11:17
Kamionpitti: unless it has to be a global static group (in which case it has to go into Debian's base-passwd, at least in svn), I don't really mind about the name11:17
Kamionpitti: you're welcome to modify base-config yourself to add that group once the name and function are decided11:18
pitti Kamion: I think a static group is not required, a system group will suffice11:18
pittiKamion: Okay, I will do. What do you think of 'plugdev'?11:18
pittiKamion: 'devices 11:18
pittiKamion: 'devices' is too generic, I think11:18
dokomdz: there was no response to the proposal of syncing the python2.3 package from unstable. what should we do now?11:19
KamionI agree devices is too generic; plugdev is OK, I guess, doesn't really grab me but none of the names so far have done :)11:19
pittiKamion: same for me, don't have a better idea for a short and good name11:19
lamontMithrandir: still awake?11:19
=== ploum [~ploum@231-238.243.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
ploumJust a question11:22
ploumwhere does "warty" name come from ?11:22
jdubploum: it's the warty warthog release :-)11:23
jdubploum: 'warty' sort of means 'patchy' or 'a bit buggy'11:23
jdubploum: and we thought the first release might be a bit warty ;)11:24
ploumjdub, in french warty means "verol" and that's not pretty11:24
ploumbut I don't understand "warthog' 11:24
ploum(babelfish doesn't help me ;) )11:24
jduba warthog is an animal in africa11:24
jdubnot a very pretty one ;)11:25
tvon|lurkinghrm.  Latest upgrade/dist-upgrade seems to hange on 'Preconfiguring packages...'11:25
jdubgoogle images should help you out :)11:25
ploumjdub, yes, indeed11:25
ploumI see11:25
ploum"phacochre" in french :-)11:25
ploumand Ubuntu ?11:25
pittiKamion: actually the new group does the same as 'cdrom', but this name is misleading for the new intention.11:26
mdzpitti: I think a single group is better11:26
pittiKamion: the problem with a new group would be how to handle a seamless update from woody and older wartys11:26
pittiKamion: if I just upload a new restricted mount, this would break upgrades, i. e. the users could not mount any more11:27
jdubploum: ubuntu is defined on the wiki (in the FAQ)11:27
ploumjdub, sorry11:27
mjg59Oh, arse11:27
jdubKeybuk: ooh, can you add that to the wiki?11:28
mjg59This laptop is insane - it's got an i82365 /and/ a yenta11:28
mjg592.6 is massively unhappy with that11:28
Keybukjdub: k.11:28
jdubmdz: are we going to have kernel pacakges to test from herbert soon?11:29
=== jdub feels queasy
Keybukjdub: you getting two-weeks-to-release edginess?11:30
jdubvery much so11:31
jdubi love it :)11:31
pittiploum: actually, my first thought of 'Warthogs' was Harry Potter's 'Hogwarts' backwards :-)11:31
jdubhaven't got this buzz with gnome for ages ;)11:31
ploumpitti, I don't read Harry Potter but I can imagine11:32
spivjdub: When the buzz wears off Ubuntu releases, what are you going to do for your next fix?11:32
jdubtime-based terraforming11:32
jdubdaniels: ping11:33
tvon|lurkingalong with my 'preconfigure packages' hang with apt-get upgrade, I have a bunch of "/bin/sh /tmp/xserver-xfee86.config....." processes running 11:34
tvon|lurkingperhaps because  I tried the upgrade a number of times11:34
Keybukjdub: http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/kids.mp3 -- but for releases11:34
pittimdz: any idea how to smoothly handle upgrades to the 'plugdev'-restricted mount/camera/whatever system?11:35
mdzpitti: specifically?11:35
pittimdz: we should not just put every existing user with uid > 1000 into that group11:35
mdzjdub: I was supposed to have them today, but he had trouble connecting to the ssh service I set up for him11:36
mdzpitti: oh, I don't think we need to worry too much about that, just do it in base-config11:36
jdubmdz: ahr11:36
mdzpitti: we can send an email to the sounder list about it11:36
pittimdz: agreed for the sounders, but what about upgrades from woody?11:36
pittimdz: I thought woody upgrades should be supported?11:37
mdzpitti: they are, but we do not expect to make such intrusive changes to their working configuration11:37
mdzpitti: this is not something which is required for a successful upgrade11:37
pittimdz: agreed, but we have to explain that somewhere11:37
=== hypatia has just acquired a machine to work^W... test Ubuntu on
jdub"What ought to happen is desktop Linux proponents should wake up and switch to Mac OS instead."11:38
pittimdz: I think somebody would kill me if I added a high-priority debconf note11:38
thomhypatia: new laptop?11:38
hypatiathom: Yep!11:38
thomwhat'ya get?11:38
hypatiaFujitsu Lifebook11:38
ploumI've just seen in the wiki that you are looking for :11:38
ploum GNOME GUI for bittorrent11:38
hypatiaspiv said "they're awesome, you realise the magic for the X config is insane?"11:39
thomthe crusoe ones?11:39
ploumwell, it's maybe a good idea to start learning gnome-python11:39
hypatiabut he thinks I'm OK because it has a normal aspect ratio11:39
hypatiathom: no, centrino, alas11:39
thomi wonder if they get the code morphing right yet11:39
thomoh, bugger11:39
hypatiaThe nuttiness with finding a US vendor has caused me to lower my standards.11:40
ploumI will try this someday11:40
jdubhypatia: i was going to recommend the dell x300 to you11:40
mjg59Arse. What I want to do appears to be impossible with 2.6.11:40
thomjdub: dell? EWWWW!11:40
Keybuk"The best Linux desktops are still beyond the skills of average mortals and enjoy very limited application support."11:40
jdubthom: that's what i thought, but the x300 is great.11:40
hypatiajdub: thanks for the thought anyway.11:40
hypatiajdub: Next time I will be around for wider soundings :)11:41
jdubYour authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request11:41
jdub    For:  scott@canonical.com11:41
jdub    List: sounder@lists.no-name-yet.com11:41
thomjdub: i'd not put money on a dell laptop making it past the first month these days11:41
pittimdz: so I just do the mods and we put a stanza about this into the release notes?11:42
mdzpitti: sure11:42
mdzpitti: we can't provide exactly the same experience on upgrades, since we won't risk intrusive changes to the user's configuration11:43
pittimdz: okay, will do. BTW, do you agree to my propsed todo list?11:43
mdzpitti: I need to review it11:43
Keybukjdub: I played with an x300 about the time I bought my new laptop, it didn't feel solid at all11:43
KeybukI got the impression it wouldn't last ten minutes in my rucksack11:43
pittimdz: can you reply to the mail please? I'm going to bed now.11:43
mdzpitti: but in a nutshell, you need to finish the implementation of the removable device support as soon as possible so that you can focus on bugfixing for the release11:44
=== Gman agrees with Keybuk and thom
Gmannever buy a dell laptop11:44
jdubKeybuk: which series is yours again?11:44
jdubKeybuk: nc8000?11:44
pittimdz: yeah, I will work that out with npmccallum 11:44
mdzpitti: I will respond to the mail when I have a chance11:45
pittimdz: thanks! good night!11:45
Keybukthe 8000 is *huge*11:45
Keybuknc4010 is the 12" notebook, nc6000 is the laptop, nc8000 is the hoverbook11:45
hypatiathere are still some nc4000s floating around in au I think.11:46
=== tvon|lurking digs the X31
hypatiaI guess that's the previous model.11:46
Keybukhypatia: they still sell the 4000 as well11:46
jdubhypatia: where was that place that james got his?11:46
mdzwtf is ttf-freefont-udeb for?11:46
jdubmdz: gtkfb frontent?11:47
Oskurothat's a good question11:47
Oskurojdub: does that exist?11:47
jdubit's arse, but yeah11:47
hypatiajdub: Red's Notebook World on wattle street.11:47
hypatiajdub: They don't have an onli9ne catalogue.11:47
Keybukif you want a 12", the IBM X40 and HP nc4010 are the best two out there.  the HP is a little more pricey, but a bit more powerful and has a touchpad; the X40 is slightly smaller and lighter, but is evil and out to take over the world <g>11:48
jdubthe HP is *more* expensive?11:48
thomthe X40 has working acpi, too ;-)11:49
Keybukthom: but the nc4010 has working WiFi <g>11:50
thomas does the X4011:50
thom(ipw2100 by default ;-) )11:50
Keybukthere was something else you were bitching about the other day; what was that? :p11:50
thomprobably the stupid names HP used on the 4010 ;P11:51
KeybukI mean something that didn't work on the X4011:51
thomthe escape key isn't ideally placed11:52
jdubMicrosoft VBScript runtime  error '800a0009'11:53
jdubSubscript out of range: '[number: 0] '11:53
jdub/Store/includes/nav_left_family.inc, line 811:53
jdub^ hp's website11:53
Keybukthe acpi names are odd, the 4000 has BAT0/BAT1 etc. is the 4010 that doesn't; but then they're just random strings anyway, so isn't hugely worryable11:53
jdubthe dell has 3 years warranty11:54
thom"worryable". you just made that up :-)11:54
jdubso if it fucks up, i can get it replaced11:54
jduband it is nice, cheap, has all the features i want11:54
thomwhen, dude. when11:54
jduband i'm probably going to replace it in a year anyway11:55
thomonly 100mb ethernet?11:55
thomoptional bluetooth?11:57
jdubcomes with bluetooth11:57
thomDell Wireless 300 internal Bluetooth module (optional at point of sale only)11:57
jdubyeah, free this month11:57
jdubthink the nic is 100mbit, yeah -> like i'm going to have a gige switch given that i didn't even have a 100mb switch until i got the wrt54g11:58
jduband it'll always be on wireless here anywya ;)11:58
jdubso wish i could buy it without windows though11:59
thomand dude, it looks /so/ ugly11:59
jdublooked nice to me11:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!