| === Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| daniels | SleepBoB: dude, if you want a radeon 9000, i can lend it to you tonight | 12:16 |
|---|---|---|
| daniels | here's $5, buy something that's not nvidia | 12:17 |
| mdz | daniels: how do I go about getting a dvorak layout with xkb on a powerpc (which uses xkblayout "macintosh")? | 12:28 |
| mdz | on i386 "setxkbmap dvorak" works fine | 12:28 |
| mdz | but on powerpc I get a very unhelpful "Error loading new keyboard description" | 12:29 |
| mdz | in other words, #255007 | 12:29 |
| mdz | which I just noticed | 12:29 |
| mdz | which also contains a fix | 12:30 |
| mdz | and so, never mind :-) | 12:32 |
| daniels | glad to be of service ;) | 12:33 |
| daniels | do you want the next xfree86 revision to have that fix? | 12:33 |
| mdz | I just pulled it into warty bugzilla to ask about that | 12:35 |
| daniels | rad | 12:37 |
| === daniels watches rsync whiz by. | ||
| daniels | pool/main/t ... | 12:37 |
| === Md is now known as alice | ||
| === alice is now known as Md | ||
| === aes [~andrew@dsl-212-23-23-154.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === mark0 [marko@treason.nexuslabs.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| mark0 | anyoen here installed warty amd64? | 01:11 |
| Clint | not I | 01:13 |
| mark0 | are you using the x86 ver? | 01:14 |
| mark0 | err i386/ia32 | 01:14 |
| Clint | no, I've only used powerpc | 01:15 |
| mark0 | i guess i could try it on nova | 01:15 |
| === hrdwrbob [~hrdwrbob@c210-49-180-240.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === Riff [~davyd@cook.theducks.org] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| Clint | maybe you should try the mailing list | 03:37 |
| === cef_work [~cef@fw-01.amc.com.au] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| jdub | yo, can you guys check the FAQ to see if we're missing anything sensible? | 04:35 |
| jdub | http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions | 04:35 |
| jdub | i've just added a short entry about root | 04:35 |
| jdub | because everyone's asking about it :-) | 04:35 |
| jdub | if any of those answers need to be improved, let me know | 04:35 |
| hrdwrbob | hence, FAQ :) | 04:35 |
| Gman | what's the username and passwd? ;) | 04:35 |
| jdub | Gman: sounder:oink | 04:36 |
| jdub | sounders:oink, sorry | 04:36 |
| Gman | oh right, /topic | 04:36 |
| Gman | wondered what that meant | 04:36 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu:Kamion] : SSDS | http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/ username: sounders, password: oink | Sounder CD 7 released | ||
| Kamion | let's expand that a bit | 04:36 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu:jdub] : SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Sounder CD 7 released | ||
| hrdwrbob | much ebtter | 04:37 |
| jdub | bah, you got there before i did | 04:37 |
| jdub | oh | 04:37 |
| jdub | which is better? :) | 04:37 |
| Kamion | yours'll do | 04:37 |
| hrdwrbob | second one, I was about to say words to that effect :) | 04:37 |
| jdub | 'sonly going to have a password for a little while longer ;) | 04:38 |
| jdub | cef_work: you're posting with a different email address to the one you subscribed under :) | 04:38 |
| jdub | Kamion: what does openssh-server use openssh-client for? | 04:39 |
| jdub | Kamion: proxy and so on, or...? | 04:40 |
| Gman | 'Please note that the real one would be less racy, but this is the sort of palette I imagine we will want.' | 04:46 |
| Gman | hahahahaha | 04:46 |
| Clint | jdub: I imagine it needs it for scp and sftp | 04:48 |
| jdub | grr, seb nuked my changes to file-roller and gnome-applets :| | 05:08 |
| Riff | you touchin' my applets? | 05:09 |
| jdub | yeah | 05:09 |
| Riff | right! let's take this outside! | 05:10 |
| jdub | unlike all the other applets, the wireless applet does not have any padding (mostly because the default image is padded already) | 05:10 |
| Kamion | jdub: /etc/ssh/moduli, ssh-keysign, couple of other common things | 05:15 |
| Kamion | Clint: -server doesn't need scp | 05:15 |
| Kamion | don't see why it should need the sftp client either really | 05:15 |
| Kamion | oh, scp, yes | 05:15 |
| cef_work | jdub: bugger.. I'll fix that.. sorry | 05:15 |
| Kamion | sorry, it's 0415 here | 05:15 |
| jdub | Kamion: was thinking last week - might be cool to have an ssh server with no ssh client | 05:16 |
| cef_work | jdub: want me to repost? | 05:16 |
| Kamion | jdub: I considered that, but decided against it. | 05:16 |
| jdub | cef_work: nah, i've moderated :) | 05:16 |
| Kamion | I don't think it's a sufficiently valuable use case to justify the extra package | 05:16 |
| Kamion | since installing openssh-client is not harmful | 05:16 |
| cef_work | cool.. bah! seems a lot of my mail settings have been reset | 05:17 |
| Kamion | hm, oops, I put sshd_config(5) in openssh-client by mistake | 05:17 |
| === tvon_ [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| tvon_ | Nifty work so far folks. | 05:38 |
| tvon_ | While the brown might be a little much, I dig the ubuntu logo/wallpaper bits :) | 05:39 |
| jdub | heh, that will all change ;) | 05:40 |
| jdub | (see the FAQ) | 05:40 |
| jdub | welcome, btw | 05:40 |
| tvon_ | Yeah, was just skimming the faq | 05:40 |
| tvon_ | and thanks | 05:40 |
| === tvon_ [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| tvon_ | wrong key | 05:41 |
| tvon_ | Live CD default background is nice | 05:42 |
| === lamont tries this whole upgrade thing, just to get the latest stuff. | ||
| tvon_ | The 'installer' is basically the latest debian installer, yes? | 05:43 |
| jdub | tvon_: yeah, but way simplified | 05:44 |
| tvon_ | I upped from a bastardized testing/unstable system and things seemed to go well | 05:44 |
| mdz | tvon_: at its core | 05:44 |
| tvon_ | ah, nice | 05:44 |
| tvon_ | I'll have to check that out | 05:44 |
| tvon_ | bootsplash bits are based on..well, 'bootsplash'? | 05:46 |
| tvon_ | (as opposed to rhgb or something like that) | 05:47 |
| === tvon_ is now known as tvon|lurking | ||
| Kamion | tvon|lurking: we're not doing bootsplash for warty, but it's actually going to be a pure userspace thing some of our guys have done themselves | 05:54 |
| Kamion | tvon|lurking: we tried to use bootsplash, but the requirement to build all the framebuffer modules into the kernel broke our installer | 05:55 |
| === tvon [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === lamont reboots for giggles and new gnome | ||
| === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === lamont looks around for fabbione to beat. | ||
| lamont | I want my resolution back.. | 06:03 |
| mdz | lamont: -6ubuntu10? | 06:04 |
| lamont | sigh | 06:04 |
| === lamont tries dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 instead | ||
| lamont | brb | 06:04 |
| === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| lamont | 1280x1024, 16-bit seems to work just fine... | 06:16 |
| fabbione | morning guys | 06:36 |
| fabbione | lamont: are you on ubuntu10? | 06:36 |
| lamont | 9 | 06:37 |
| lamont | fire call - back in a bit | 06:37 |
| fabbione | ok | 06:37 |
| fabbione | lamont: ubuntu9 was broken. please upgrade ubuntu10 | 06:38 |
| fabbione | uhuhu we have the fix for XKB | 06:39 |
| fabbione | ! | 06:39 |
| === fabbione ponders uploading ubuntu11 | ||
| jdub | more x uploads! :) | 06:48 |
| === lamont kicks X | ||
| lamont | takes forever and a day to download, you know... | 06:58 |
| tvon | mmm, broadband | 06:59 |
| mdz | lamont: it's faster if you just upgrade it, rather than syncing an entire mirror | 06:59 |
| fabbione | lamont: i have been working 14 hours yesterday to fix all the -reconfigure /upgrade thingy | 06:59 |
| lamont | mdz: yeah, but not by much.. | 06:59 |
| lamont | then again, if I just upgrade it, then I don't go through the straw... | 07:00 |
| lamont | well, I can bypass the straw, that is. | 07:00 |
| lamont | tvon: I have broadband, but the billing is kinda wierd... | 07:00 |
| fabbione | lamont: you need only xserver-xfree86 and xserver-common from ubuntu10 | 07:00 |
| lamont | end result is that I mirror warty at 20kbps | 07:00 |
| lamont | fabbione: but I have 9 and a working X config... | 07:00 |
| tvon | lamont: ah | 07:01 |
| lamont | fabbione: is -11 due anytime soon? | 07:01 |
| fabbione | lamont: dpkg-reconfigure won't work and it will smash your config | 07:01 |
| fabbione | lamont: probably today or tomorrow | 07:01 |
| lamont | fabbione: yeah - I noticed. But vi works.. | 07:01 |
| lamont | fabbione: cool | 07:01 |
| fabbione | lamont: well it's enough you add a line at the end of the file | 07:01 |
| fabbione | and the config won't be touched anymore | 07:02 |
| lamont | mdz: btw, I just sync main and about 5 packages from universe, not the whole archive | 07:18 |
| === lamont heads for bed, forseeing a long day tomorrow. | ||
| === diieman gets the feeling lamont might be better served by weekly cd dumps ;) | ||
| fabbione | mdz: i agree that we should kill the -novtswitch | 07:27 |
| mdz | fabbione: ok | 07:27 |
| fabbione | daniels will have time to do it properly | 07:28 |
| diieman | yeah, hes downloading about 2 cds a week | 07:28 |
| hrdwrbob | gah | 07:30 |
| hrdwrbob | what's the URL to the isos? | 07:30 |
| jdub | http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/ | 07:31 |
| jdub | see the wiki :) | 07:31 |
| hrdwrbob | oh der | 07:32 |
| hrdwrbob | under 'archive' | 07:32 |
| ik5pvx | uhm.... upgrading hal while accessing an USB disc seems not to be a great idea | 08:16 |
| ik5pvx | hmmm... reboot required | 08:16 |
| ik5pvx | hmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... hard boot required | 08:18 |
| tvon | hah | 08:18 |
| ik5pvx | ide freezed too | 08:19 |
| fabbione | that's bad | 08:23 |
| fabbione | ik5pvx: please file a bug | 08:24 |
| ik5pvx | I'm saving the logs right now | 08:24 |
| ik5pvx | want to see it before I file a bug ? | 08:24 |
| fabbione | also... it would be nice to see if it can be reproduced | 08:24 |
| fabbione | just go ahead.. i will get the mail from the systemm | 08:24 |
| === ik5pvx would like to reproduce it on someone else's filesystem <g> | ||
| fabbione | hey.. i gave you that laptop to play with warty :-))) | 08:25 |
| fabbione | use it :P | 08:25 |
| ik5pvx | will do in a while | 08:25 |
| ik5pvx | ehm | 08:29 |
| jdub | mdz: hmm, seems the broadcom in the x300 works with the tg3 driver | 08:34 |
| === ploum [~ploum@93-244.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu | ||
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| fabbione | ik5pvx: i think the problem is related to USB only. all the otherstuff is a chain of things that goes banana | 09:19 |
| fabbione | or these ones are the bits during the shutdown? | 09:20 |
| daniels | oh | 09:21 |
| daniels | the kernel with warty seems to hate usb | 09:21 |
| daniels | if i cat /proc/usb/devices with my media reader plugged in, it'll just dump in d | 09:21 |
| Mithrandir | daniels: seems to work fine on my workstation. | 09:22 |
| daniels | probably just hates the kt400; i don't blame it | 09:24 |
| fabbione | daniels: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO THE KERNEL THIS TIME? :P | 09:26 |
| === fabbione hides | ||
| fabbione | daniels: btw ubuntu10 is up with all the fixes | 09:26 |
| fabbione | i am going to upload ubuntu11 that has all the META key fixes | 09:26 |
| fabbione | and ask sounders to do a good round of autodetection tests | 09:26 |
| daniels | fabbione: ok, cool | 09:28 |
| daniels | i had an ubuntu with novtswitch fixes, and i've been looking at macintosh stuff | 09:28 |
| daniels | as well as having fixed pppoe and a couple of others | 09:28 |
| daniels | mdz has handed me a couple of lovely bugs to hunt down | 09:28 |
| fabbione | daniels: in ubuntu11 i already killed the novt stuff | 09:28 |
| daniels | fabbione: it was never there | 09:28 |
| daniels | afaict | 09:28 |
| fabbione | daniels: there was the patch | 09:28 |
| fabbione | we added it in ubuntu6 or something | 09:28 |
| daniels | i looked in ubuntu10 and there was no #914 | 09:31 |
| === ploum [~ploum@93-244.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| fabbione | impossible.. i deleted it only this morning | 09:32 |
| fabbione | until.... | 09:32 |
| fabbione | HMMMMM | 09:32 |
| fabbione | AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH | 09:32 |
| fabbione | because i used svn export | 09:32 |
| fabbione | that's why | 09:32 |
| fabbione | ok.. never mind than | 09:33 |
| fabbione | my fault | 09:33 |
| === fabbione learns about svn status | ||
| daniels | heh :) that's what you get for using svn :P | 09:34 |
| ik5pvx | fabbione, yes I too think it's a chain reaction. It's strange that udev freezes too, and I couldn't complete the reboot. | 09:36 |
| fabbione | ik5pvx: udev is full of race conditions afaict | 09:37 |
| ik5pvx | (<rant> yeah they replaced a buggy devfs with a buggy udev </rant>) | 09:37 |
| fabbione | ok.. ubuntu11 is up... | 09:41 |
| === fabbione gets a little break | ||
| === seb128 [~seb128@ABoulogne-110-1-2-13.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| seb128 | morning | 10:23 |
| seb128 | jdub: here ? | 10:24 |
| jdub | morning seb | 10:24 |
| jdub | get my mail? :) | 10:24 |
| seb128 | hey jdub :) | 10:24 |
| seb128 | yes, but I've apt-get source from warty as usual | 10:24 |
| seb128 | you've made your changes out of the debian dir ? | 10:24 |
| jdub | nup | 10:25 |
| seb128 | I just keep the debian dir between the version ... | 10:25 |
| seb128 | for gnome-applets I've this entry in the changelog | 10:25 |
| seb128 | " * Tastier icons for the wireless applet." | 10:25 |
| jdub | see my .changes entries for file-roller and gnome-applets | 10:26 |
| Riff | these icons better end upstream | 10:26 |
| jdub | Riff: i just nicked the netapplet ones for now | 10:26 |
| jdub | Riff: but decided not to use those anyway | 10:26 |
| jdub | (they're mobile phone bars, which is inappropriate for wireless) | 10:26 |
| jdub | i'm going to have some new ones made which will be much nicer | 10:27 |
| seb128 | jdub: where have you made your changes for the applets ? | 10:27 |
| jdub | seb128: under debian/ | 10:27 |
| Gman | a pair of breasts perhaps? | 10:27 |
| Gman | :) | 10:27 |
| seb128 | I've apt-get source gnome-applets, grab the debian dir and put it in the new version | 10:27 |
| jdub | a bunch of .uu files, a change to debian/rules, and a patch in patches/ | 10:27 |
| jdub | hrm | 10:27 |
| jdub | i totally uploaded it | 10:27 |
| Riff | Gman; how do you represent wireless strength with a pair of breasts? | 10:27 |
| jdub | i can send you the changes :-) | 10:28 |
| seb128 | jdub: I've your changelog entry .... I swear I've not changed the debian dir | 10:28 |
| seb128 | out of the changelog and control.in for the depends | 10:28 |
| jdub | seb128: does it include the wireless padding patch? | 10:28 |
| seb128 | " * Tastier icons for the wireless applet." is the previous entry | 10:29 |
| jdub | and/or comment in the changelog | 10:29 |
| jdub | hrm | 10:29 |
| jdub | i'm sure i uploaded them | 10:29 |
| jdub | 8) | 10:29 |
| seb128 | I've apt-get source gnome-applets | 10:29 |
| jdub | i'll re-upload | 10:29 |
| jdub | there was the menu change for fileroller, too | 10:29 |
| seb128 | gnome-applets (2.7.2-0ubuntu4) warty; urgency=low | 10:29 |
| seb128 | . | 10:29 |
| seb128 | * debian/patches/07_wireless_padding.patch: | 10:29 |
| seb128 | - add 2 pixels of padding for hboxed applets | 10:29 |
| seb128 | 10:29 | |
| seb128 | grumpf | 10:29 |
| Gman | Riff, dunno, i'm sure there are ways | 10:30 |
| seb128 | perhaps I've not apt-get update and the warty mirror had both versions | 10:30 |
| jdub | ahr | 10:30 |
| jdub | yeah, that's the one | 10:30 |
| seb128 | jdub: do you still have the changes ? :) | 10:30 |
| jdub | Gman: the harder the nipple... | 10:30 |
| jdub | seb128: yeah | 10:30 |
| seb128 | if yes, please mail them | 10:30 |
| Riff | jdub; I had wondered that | 10:30 |
| seb128 | mental note: the warty mirror can provide old sources, always apt-get update before getting the source package for a new version | 10:31 |
| seb128 | jdub: sorry for nucking your changes :p | 10:31 |
| jdub | don't worry | 10:32 |
| jdub | i love it when you nuck my changes | 10:32 |
| seb128 | ah ah | 10:32 |
| jdub | ;) | 10:32 |
| jdub | seb128: "it won't matter anymore when we have hct" | 10:33 |
| seb128 | BTW we don't have a lot of time before before the release and still a lot of desktop changes/fixes to do | 10:33 |
| jdub | yeah | 10:33 |
| seb128 | would be nice to get your comments about the menu | 10:33 |
| jdub | yeah, sorry, been away for the weekend 8) | 10:34 |
| seb128 | to take a decision about the trash applet (upstream probably in holidays, he doesn't reply) | 10:34 |
| jdub | what did we need to decide? | 10:34 |
| seb128 | should I start fixing the problem ? Or we just trash the trash applet ? :p | 10:34 |
| seb128 | s/problem/problems/ | 10:34 |
| seb128 | it has some bugs, no animation and no translation | 10:35 |
| seb128 | we need to put some efforts in it if we want to ship it | 10:35 |
| jdub | yeah | 10:36 |
| jdub | okay, trash it :-) | 10:36 |
| jdub | perhaps put it in supported | 10:36 |
| jdub | have you put it in debian yet? | 10:36 |
| seb128 | no | 10:36 |
| jdub | if you get time, that might be nice :) | 10:37 |
| seb128 | not really the good time to put new stuffs in debian, autobuilders are overloaded and we are trying to release sarge | 10:37 |
| seb128 | yes ... | 10:37 |
| jdub | yeah | 10:37 |
| jdub | whenever's handy | 10:37 |
| seb128 | BTW that's quick to upload it, I'll try to do it soon | 10:37 |
| seb128 | we also need to make changes on the damn battery and wireless applets | 10:38 |
| === rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| seb128 | if you don't have a laptop they keep displays messages | 10:38 |
| Riff | seb128; I fixed the battery applet for desktops I think | 10:38 |
| Riff | I never committed the patch though, because noone has tested it | 10:39 |
| Riff | including me | 10:39 |
| Riff | it works on my laptop though | 10:39 |
| Riff | seb128; does this help you: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150899 | 10:40 |
| seb128 | thanks | 10:40 |
| jdub | Riff: what does it do for machines that don't have batteries? | 10:44 |
| Riff | jdub; that's the point, it's meant to say they're on AC power | 10:44 |
| Riff | personally I think it's a kernel bug | 10:45 |
| jdub | right | 10:45 |
| Riff | if you load the battery module without a battery, it should have a state file saying battery: none | 10:45 |
| Riff | or something | 10:45 |
| jdub | we just want to get rid of it, and remove it from the panel config | 10:45 |
| jdub | seb128: another option is doing some laptop-detect foo and choosing a different default panel profile | 10:46 |
| === jdub does a mass upgrade on his newly installed ubuntu/x86 box | ||
| Riff | I should get a screen and a videocard for my desktop | 10:48 |
| Riff | so I can start playing with it properly | 10:48 |
| SleepBoB | well, it's not the geforce2mx that's causing the rebooting problems | 10:54 |
| fabbione | rburton: ping | 11:41 |
| rburton | pong | 11:41 |
| fabbione | rburton: sorry i don't understand your answer | 11:42 |
| fabbione | it is gone, or it is gone adding the resolution? | 11:42 |
| rburton | adding the resolution lines made the mouse speed reasonable again | 11:42 |
| === savs [~savs@jicbioinc1.ext.uea.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| fabbione | ok | 11:42 |
| === fabbione mumbles | ||
| fabbione | adding a fix is not easy.... | 11:43 |
| fabbione | i mean an automatic fix... | 11:43 |
| rburton | yeah, i can imagine | 11:43 |
| fabbione | it's more the sequence in which things are done than anything else | 11:44 |
| fabbione | and who will own the fix. | 11:44 |
| fabbione | the modules are loaded by discover i think, or hotplug | 11:44 |
| fabbione | but the resolution is set at a much later stage by X | 11:44 |
| thom | Riff: so, now you've fixed forecasts for the UK, can we have weather maps too? :P | 11:45 |
| fabbione | so theoretically i need to feed these info to hotplug ... | 11:45 |
| Riff | thom; you can put in a custom radar URL | 11:45 |
| rburton | fabbione: is it possible this is a kernel driver bug, where some mouses send a much higher resolution data than others and the driver doesn't know this? | 11:45 |
| Riff | also, it's Alan Cox who fixed it | 11:45 |
| thom | oh well | 11:46 |
| fabbione | rburton: yes. it can be everything. | 11:46 |
| === jdub has a radar url :) | ||
| thom | so much for that hope :-) | 11:46 |
| fabbione | rburton: even a mouse that sends more info | 11:46 |
| jdub | thom: http://mirror.bom.gov.au/radar/IDR033.gif | 11:46 |
| fabbione | rburton: i think it's called the repeater or something similar | 11:46 |
| jdub | :-) | 11:46 |
| === fabbione fires up AC/DC | ||
| fabbione | THUNDER.. AH AH AH AHHH | 11:47 |
| === savs is away: biab | ||
| === Gman [~Glynn@222-152-131-41.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === seb128 [~seb128@ABoulogne-110-1-2-13.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === savs is back (gone 00:59:09) | ||
| edd | you know what? it's probably a good idea to disable the xscreensaver module that fakes crash screens from windows | 12:56 |
| thom | heh, that might be a good plan | 12:56 |
| edd | i can dual booting users getting a little panicked when that one comes up | 12:56 |
| ik5pvx | you are probably right, but it's so fun to see those windows people giggle at you "your pc has crashed" and then impressing them with the password for xscreensaver | 12:57 |
| fabbione | :-) | 12:59 |
| Riff | ik5pvx; if only that password dialog wasn't so damned ugly | 01:30 |
| thom | Riff: well, what happened to gscreensaver? | 01:31 |
| rburton | it never happened? | 01:32 |
| Riff | thom; I has managed not to happen yet | 01:32 |
| Riff | I should get back on with that | 01:32 |
| rburton | i take it the plan would be to support the xscreensaver hacks but with a nice unlock interface and dbus magic | 01:33 |
| Riff | rburton; pretty much | 01:34 |
| Riff | the design plan, is to invent a magic auditable way to fit it into xscreensaver | 01:34 |
| Riff | so that jwz won't flame me any more | 01:35 |
| rburton | hahaha | 01:35 |
| ik5pvx | oh... riff left... anyway, tehre are some configurable items in app-defaults for xscreensaver... at least the colors could be tuned, I think | 01:37 |
| === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net | ||
| === Riff [~davyd@cook.theducks.org] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === jdub [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| lifeless | why did my battery applet suddenly go vertical ? | 01:49 |
| Riff | did your taskbar get bigger? | 01:53 |
| lifeless | no. | 01:54 |
| lifeless | I did an aptitude update yesterday, today the battery is vertical not horizontal... harder to read. | 01:55 |
| === ploum [~ploum@93-244.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === SleepBoB [hrdwrbob@220-253-14-97.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === lifeless [~robertc@dsl-156.23.240.220.rns02-kent-syd.dsl.comindico.com.au] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === Mithrandir [~tfheen@vawad.raw.no] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| doko | fabbione: how to debug apache2, if each newly created child process immediatly segfaults? | 02:25 |
| fabbione | doko: summoning thom? ;) | 02:25 |
| fabbione | i am trying to split a package right now to save a few (hundred) Mb for each X uploads | 02:26 |
| fabbione | tho it will suck the first upload | 02:26 |
| fabbione | but it will save us a lot of bw later on | 02:26 |
| Oskuro | fabbione: speaking of X, do you know what the status of the meta/hyper RC bug in Debian's X is? | 02:30 |
| fabbione | Oskuro: debian is pending upload | 02:30 |
| fabbione | for us the fix is in Ubuntu11 | 02:30 |
| fabbione | that i uploaded this morning | 02:31 |
| fabbione | scary eh? | 02:31 |
| Oskuro | RAD! ;) | 02:31 |
| fabbione | at least they should be working | 02:33 |
| fabbione | if they don't let me know | 02:33 |
| fabbione | because Overfiend was overexcited for the fix | 02:33 |
| Oskuro | heh | 02:35 |
| Oskuro | so it was recently marked pending, I guess. | 02:35 |
| Oskuro | I just looked at the bug today and saw it was pending | 02:35 |
| Oskuro | have I said I *hate* OpenOffice's source, and above that BUILDING openoffice? | 02:36 |
| fabbione | Oskuro: yesterday night | 02:40 |
| Oskuro | fabbione: k | 02:41 |
| === bskahan [~bskahan@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === fabbione mumbles | ||
| seb128 | Oskuro: do you know how to apply a patch to openoffice package in a proper way ? :) | 02:57 |
| thom | doko: which versions, what modules do you have loaded? | 02:57 |
| === fabbione is close to split xfonts out of xfree86 | ||
| === rburton restarts to try new xfree86 | ||
| Oskuro | seb128: I'm leaving this stupid place in 1 minute | 03:00 |
| Oskuro | hmm, actually, 20 seconds, but I can tel lyou tomorrow | 03:00 |
| Oskuro | seb128: or #debian-oo | 03:00 |
| doko | thom: current ubuntu, libapache2-mod-python2.3 | 03:01 |
| seb128 | Oskuro: ok | 03:01 |
| === doko_ [~doko@dsl-082-083-244-078.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| jdub | seb128: you going to do an evo update, or wait to sync with debian? | 03:05 |
| seb128 | need to catch up with all the other stuffs and I'll see | 03:06 |
| seb128 | probably ask for a sync for a part of the packages | 03:06 |
| seb128 | why ? | 03:06 |
| jdub | seb128: just wondering when to do evolution-exchange :) | 03:07 |
| seb128 | ok, I'll let you know, hopefully Kitame will update the debian packages soon :) | 03:07 |
| === jdub doesn't see unstable status anymore, running garnome on desktop and ubuntu on ibook | ||
| === rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| rburton | can anyone remember the bug# for they xfree86 stickly windows key bug? | 03:14 |
| fabbione | rburton: ??? | 03:16 |
| seb128 | rburton: again ? | 03:17 |
| seb128 | :) | 03:17 |
| seb128 | wait | 03:17 |
| rburton | yeah, sorry | 03:17 |
| rburton | i'll write it down this time :) | 03:17 |
| fabbione | ehehhe | 03:17 |
| rburton | i was hoping ubuntu11 contained the fix, but no such luck | 03:17 |
| rburton | fabbione: does xfree86 guess a keyboard layout from the locale? | 03:18 |
| fabbione | rburton: yes | 03:18 |
| rburton | fab | 03:18 |
| seb128 | rburton: #259740 this one ? | 03:19 |
| fabbione | rburton: ubuntu11 has the fixes that will go into Debian for all the <META> keys | 03:19 |
| fabbione | rburton: if it doesn't work please follow up with me and Overfiend | 03:19 |
| fabbione | because it's only in trunk and not part of Debian yet | 03:19 |
| rburton | i've still got a sticky windows/super key | 03:19 |
| rburton | as in 259740 | 03:20 |
| fabbione | rburton: just a sec | 03:20 |
| rburton | how can i reset the keyboard layout, removing any xmodmap commands, whilst in x | 03:20 |
| fabbione | why removing any xmodmap commands? | 03:21 |
| rburton | i've just ran some to fix the sticky super key | 03:22 |
| rburton | i'll just logout/in again :) | 03:22 |
| rburton | bbiab | 03:22 |
| === rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| fabbione | rburton: please next time gimme a sec to check the commands :-)))) | 03:25 |
| rburton | right, fresh Xubuntu11, with a sticky super key which means the metacity window switcher won't go away until i release and press super | 03:25 |
| rburton | fabbione: :) | 03:25 |
| === fabbione is not a live enciclopedia :P | ||
| rburton | i'd only just logged in so this wasn't a problem, and ensures a clean setup | 03:26 |
| fabbione | rburton: is that the correct behaviour? | 03:26 |
| rburton | nope | 03:26 |
| fabbione | ok, please follow up on the Debian bug. | 03:26 |
| rburton | i press super, arrows move around the workspaces, but when i let go of super, the popup doesn't go | 03:26 |
| fabbione | ~ | 03:26 |
| fabbione | ops | 03:26 |
| === fabbione would love to understand what the "super" key is on hiw keyboard | ||
| fabbione | ;3~ | 03:27 |
| fabbione | ARGH | 03:27 |
| fabbione | damn keyboard | 03:27 |
| fabbione | is it ctrl+alt+<arrows>? | 03:28 |
| rburton | its the windows key for me | 03:28 |
| fabbione | rburton: right or left? | 03:28 |
| rburton | both | 03:29 |
| fabbione | they do nothing for me | 03:29 |
| rburton | keyboard layout pc104 | 03:29 |
| fabbione | same here | 03:30 |
| fabbione | xfree86, dk layout | 03:30 |
| rburton | i think metacity uses meta by default as the hotkey | 03:31 |
| fabbione | i am running a "standard" desktop installation | 03:32 |
| fabbione | no local modification or anything | 03:32 |
| fabbione | kinda to keep it as neutral as possible | 03:32 |
| seb128 | here that's ctrl+alt too | 03:33 |
| fabbione | ctrl+alt+<arrows> works for me | 03:33 |
| fabbione | as soon as i release any of the buttons the popup goes away | 03:33 |
| seb128 | me too | 03:34 |
| fabbione | so that's correct.. i guess | 03:34 |
| seb128 | the problem is with the windows key, not with alt | 03:35 |
| fabbione | yeah i got that | 03:36 |
| tvon | With the left or right ctrl/alt keys? | 03:36 |
| fabbione | rburton: please follow up on the Debian bug, exaplaning that you are using svn trunk version of X and that i told you to do so | 03:36 |
| tvon | Left keys work fine for me, right keys cause the popup to stay | 03:36 |
| rburton | fabbione: am doing so now | 03:36 |
| fabbione | rburton: thanks a lot | 03:37 |
| === tvon tips his hat | ||
| === tvon [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #ubuntu ["Leaving"] | ||
| fabbione | tvon|lurking: right.. i can see that too | 03:37 |
| Kamion | woo, finally finished the base-config merge, I think | 03:38 |
| Kamion | that was inordinately painful | 03:39 |
| lifeless | debian->ubuntu merge ? | 03:39 |
| Kamion | yes | 03:39 |
| === crevette_ [~crevette@ip-24.net-82-216-186.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| fabbione | Kamion: what's new and hot in base-config? | 03:40 |
| Kamion | * Merge to warty, mainly for translation updates, debconf preseeding, and | 03:40 |
| Kamion | GDM language setting. | 03:40 |
| fabbione | oh ok | 03:40 |
| fabbione | nice :) | 03:40 |
| Kamion | the last was the impetus, but the second would be *really* nice if we can make it work in warty | 03:40 |
| crevette_ | hello | 03:41 |
| seb128 | hey crevette | 03:41 |
| === crevette_ is now known as crevetteZulu | ||
| crevetteZulu | the new xfree resolved res detection | 03:42 |
| fabbione | crevetteZulu: so it works fine for you? | 03:43 |
| crevetteZulu | I'm just a the step two | 03:45 |
| === npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| fabbione | cool | 03:46 |
| crevetteZulu | but at this point the XF86config is feed with accurate frequency | 03:47 |
| crevetteZulu | and it's better | 03:47 |
| crevetteZulu | the process detection even my monitor and VGA card information | 03:47 |
| crevetteZulu | s/detection/detects/ | 03:47 |
| fabbione | yup | 03:51 |
| crevetteZulu | it the last update is only for laptop user ? because i'm a wkstation user and It's even better :) | 03:52 |
| fabbione | no it's for everybody | 03:53 |
| crevetteZulu | ok | 03:53 |
| fabbione | laptop and workstations | 03:53 |
| crevetteZulu | I will try with the last and final step | 03:53 |
| crevetteZulu | see you | 03:53 |
| fabbione | ok | 03:53 |
| === crevetteZulu [~crevette@ip-24.net-82-216-186.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| crevetteZulu | back again | 04:05 |
| crevetteZulu | step 3 didn't worked for me | 04:05 |
| crevetteZulu | only a blinking led on my monitor | 04:05 |
| lifeless | my battery status applet has died :[ | 04:08 |
| lifeless | anyone want a bug report? | 04:08 |
| thom | lifeless: well, yes. bugzilla does | 04:08 |
| lifeless | no idea how to reproduce... | 04:09 |
| Riff | lifeless; I think I've fixed it | 04:09 |
| fabbione | crevetteZulu: ok. can you send us all the info, like video card, logs, configurations and so on? | 04:09 |
| Riff | what version of the applet are you running? | 04:09 |
| fabbione | crevetteZulu: at least to have an idea of what is wrong and what needs to be fixed | 04:09 |
| lifeless | 2.7.2-0ubuntu4 | 04:10 |
| Riff | you probably need to try 2.7.3 | 04:12 |
| lifeless | ok, that is probably in my aptitude download now. | 04:12 |
| Riff | hang on, I'll get a stack trace to compare yours against | 04:12 |
| crevetteZulu | f*ck | 04:12 |
| lifeless | let me attach gdb | 04:12 |
| crevetteZulu | I forgot to keep a log of the step 3 | 04:13 |
| lifeless | hah. | 04:13 |
| lifeless | No stack. | 04:13 |
| Riff | lifeless; that's ok then | 04:13 |
| lifeless | ah. my bad | 04:14 |
| lifeless | (gdb) bt | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #0 0x4070401e in __read_nocancel () from /lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #1 0x408a62c1 in g_vasprintf () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #2 0x4087e231 in g_io_channel_get_encoding () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #3 0x4087ed34 in g_io_channel_read_line_string () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #4 0x4087eb4a in g_io_channel_read_line_string () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #5 0x08051764 in acpi_process_event () | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #6 0x0804d6a4 in acpi_callback () | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #7 0x408a622f in g_vasprintf () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| Riff | compare to this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151412 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #8 0x408837ed in g_main_depth () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #9 0x40884818 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #10 0x40884b3a in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #11 0x40885113 in g_main_loop_run () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #12 0x401fcbbf in bonobo_main () from /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #13 0x401faf12 in bonobo_generic_factory_main_timeout () from /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #14 0x401fae32 in bonobo_generic_factory_main () from /usr/lib/libbonobo-2.so.0 | 04:14 |
| fabbione | crevetteZulu: i know it's a bit long procedure... but would you mind to do step 3 again? | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #15 0x4002ffd9 in panel_applet_factory_main_closure () from /usr/lib/libpanel-applet-2.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #16 0x400300f2 in panel_applet_factory_main () from /usr/lib/libpanel-applet-2.so.0 | 04:14 |
| lifeless | #17 0x08050f9b in main () | 04:14 |
| lifeless | nope, not even close. | 04:14 |
| === fabbione begs for no paste in the chan | ||
| crevetteZulu | fabbione, yes yes of course | 04:15 |
| crevetteZulu | I 'll do that right now | 04:15 |
| fabbione | crevetteZulu: thanks a lot! | 04:15 |
| Riff | lifeless; can you file it then? | 04:15 |
| === fabbione really appreciates help | ||
| crevetteZulu | bbq | 04:15 |
| lifeless | bah, gnome-applets is missing from the component list | 04:16 |
| Riff | go to bugzilla.gnome.org | 04:16 |
| lifeless | err. Surely I should be filing this against ubuntu bugzilla. | 04:16 |
| === justdave_ [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| thom | and then seb has to move it upstream, so you might just as well :-) | 04:17 |
| Riff | lifeless; unless you can establish it's a bug in some ubuntu specific bug | 04:17 |
| lifeless | I've always had the precedence the other way around... distro first, which triages, then upstream. | 04:18 |
| Riff | are ubuntu patching gnome-applets? | 04:18 |
| Kamion | it's not that; if there's something release-critical that we need to fix then it needs to be in our bug tracking system for tracking | 04:18 |
| lifeless | I don't know. And then there is Kamions point too. | 04:19 |
| === lifeless decides to put it in nny, against gnome-control-centre for now. | ||
| Riff | lifeless; it looks vaguely like something in GNOME, which means I want to fix it for GNOME 2.8 anyway | 04:19 |
| Kamion | we have a few patches, not large | 04:19 |
| Riff | are you fiddling with the battery ACPI code? | 04:19 |
| lifeless | me? no. | 04:20 |
| Kamion | there's a call to update_ac_info() added to battstat/acpi-linux.c | 04:20 |
| Riff | I mean ubuntu | 04:20 |
| Riff | hmm | 04:20 |
| lifeless | bug #940 | 04:20 |
| Kamion | at ACPI_EVENT_BATTERY_INFO | 04:21 |
| Riff | hmm, it could be an ubuntu bug then | 04:23 |
| Riff | this makes me less concerned | 04:23 |
| Kamion | lifeless: generally, if the correct component doesn't exist, use UNKNOWN. | 04:26 |
| Kamion | (and whine at mdz to create the component ...) | 04:26 |
| === crevetteZulu [~crevette@ip-24.net-82-216-186.nice.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| crevetteZulu | fabbione, I put all my log and conf on bmm80.free.fr/ubuntu/xfree86 | 04:30 |
| lamont | diieman: the warty mirror would go faster if it wasn't competing with a sid partial-mirror as well.. :-) | 04:31 |
| === lamont wants "focus follows thought" | ||
| === StoneTable [~stone@65.169.94.254] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| thom | lamont: sawfish is written in lithp, so i'm sure you could work something out | 04:33 |
| === lamont adds "learn lisp" to the bottom of his todo list. | ||
| thom | heh | 04:33 |
| crevetteZulu | lamont, what is "focus follow thought" ? | 04:34 |
| edd | rofl | 04:34 |
| lamont | as opposed to following 'pointer', or 'click on window'. I just want the right window to have focus when I think about it. ;-) | 04:34 |
| fabbione | crevetteZulu: can you tar them up and send them via email? | 04:34 |
| fabbione | it's easier for me to keep track of stuff | 04:35 |
| crevetteZulu | oki | 04:35 |
| fabbione | fabbione@fabbione.net is a good option :-) | 04:35 |
| fabbione | thanks | 04:35 |
| crevetteZulu | oki | 04:35 |
| crevetteZulu | lamont, because I would propose to test devilspie but it not implement this :) | 04:35 |
| lamont | hehe | 04:36 |
| thom | edd: hey, what dirs do you have in /proc/acpi/button ? same to anyone else with a acpi using laptop | 04:40 |
| seb128 | jdub: around ? | 04:40 |
| edd | thom: my tr1mp is updating windows xp, can't answer right now :) | 04:40 |
| thom | gar, useless :-) | 04:40 |
| edd | thom: but, my thinkpad a22m has lid, power, sleep | 04:41 |
| thom | yeah, the ibms have sane names. | 04:41 |
| thom | it's all the other crap i'm worried about :-) | 04:41 |
| edd | well, i'm sorry for having an ibm to hand | 04:41 |
| edd | i'll try and be crapper next time | 04:41 |
| Riff | I have lid, power | 04:41 |
| thom | heheh | 04:41 |
| === edd whips self with an XF86Config-4 file | ||
| Riff | on a Toshiba | 04:42 |
| Riff | but Toshiba have good ACPI support | 04:42 |
| thom | Riff: cool, thanks | 04:42 |
| thom | what do tosh call your batteries, out of interest? | 04:42 |
| Riff | BAT1 on my machine | 04:42 |
| thom | *nod*. the HPs apparently call them stuff like C139 | 04:43 |
| Riff | wonderful | 04:43 |
| edd | BAT0,BAT1 on the ibm | 04:44 |
| === [Clint] [~c123p456@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| fabbione | daniels: wake up kid | 04:57 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| ik5pvx | uff... message size limit | 05:05 |
| lamont | hrm.. metacity got confused... | 05:11 |
| lamont | rhythmbox died, but the window remains. | 05:11 |
| lamont | nm | 05:12 |
| fabbione | hye lamont | 05:12 |
| === lamont learns to speel | ||
| lamont | morning fabbione | 05:12 |
| fabbione | ok... this is cool.. | 05:13 |
| fabbione | i can build only X fonts out of a stripped Xfree86 tree | 05:14 |
| === fabbione ponders to do a xfonts source package and remove fonts from X | ||
| lamont | meaning that there's hope for splitting them out for hoary? | 05:14 |
| fabbione | that would simply stop you guys from having to upgrade fonts each time i upload X | 05:14 |
| fabbione | lamont: actually i was thinking to do it in the next 2/3 days | 05:15 |
| fabbione | it's a package split | 05:15 |
| lamont | bzzzzt | 05:15 |
| fabbione | nothing incredible like doing x.org | 05:15 |
| lamont | that smells like a feature change | 05:15 |
| fabbione | why? | 05:15 |
| lamont | adding a new source package | 05:15 |
| fabbione | it's the same source of xfree86 | 05:15 |
| fabbione | just stripped down | 05:16 |
| fabbione | no changes to the sources | 05:16 |
| lamont | but if you can convince mdz/jdub that it's OK, more power to you | 05:16 |
| fabbione | only to a couple of Imakefiles | 05:16 |
| fabbione | it would be a "one time" upload | 05:16 |
| fabbione | once it's there... no more | 05:16 |
| fabbione | and i can disable building of fonts in x with one line change in debian/rules | 05:17 |
| lamont | pb is, it's not currently "broken" (just annoying) | 05:17 |
| fabbione | (or almost) | 05:17 |
| fabbione | i know | 05:17 |
| lamont | hence "unnecessary change" ==> "we're frozen, dude" | 05:17 |
| fabbione | yeah | 05:17 |
| lamont | maybe simpler to just make sure -ubuntu11 is the perfect thing, so that it's what ships on warty, eh? | 05:18 |
| lamont | :-) | 05:18 |
| Kamion | yarrr, /etc/environment and /etc/default/gdm handling is complicated | 05:18 |
| fabbione | 18880 -rw-r--r-- 1 fabbione src 19307067 Aug 31 15:18 xfonts86-4.3.0.tar.gz | 05:19 |
| fabbione | 58452 -rw-r--r-- 1 fabbione src 59789181 Apr 21 07:34 xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz | 05:19 |
| fabbione | lamont: see why? | 05:19 |
| fabbione | lamont: there will be an ubuntu12 at least | 05:19 |
| fabbione | lamont: but not that urgent | 05:19 |
| fabbione | ubuntu11 has been a huge improvements over < ubuntu10 | 05:19 |
| Kamion | seb128: are we going to merge gdm 2.6.0.4-1 from Debian? | 05:31 |
| Kamion | seb128: I need some of the adjustments it made to LANG handling | 05:31 |
| Kamion | seb128: (I'm happy to merge just that one change though, and can do that now) | 05:31 |
| seb128 | Kamion: hum | 05:31 |
| seb128 | we have some changes in the warty package | 05:33 |
| seb128 | if the change is easy to merge, could you just to this for the moment, I'll try to have a look on the new debian package to merge the warty changes in it latter | 05:34 |
| Kamion | it's just init and postinst | 05:35 |
| Kamion | ok | 05:35 |
| pitti | AAAARGH! Since when the first installed Warty user has complete root capabilities through sudo? | 05:38 |
| Kamion | pitti: last week | 05:38 |
| pitti | Kamion: but why shall we go back to Windows 95, security-wise? | 05:39 |
| === Kamion is just following instructions here; mdz approved it ... | ||
| pitti | Kamion: up to now I told every Linux user that he should work as a normal user to avoid system damage... | 05:39 |
| seb128 | don't shoot the messenger :) | 05:39 |
| pitti | seb128, Kamion: I don't want to shoot anybody :-), I just got very, very frightened... | 05:40 |
| pitti | I will talk to mdz about this. | 05:40 |
| Kamion | I'm not enormously happy with it myself, but everyone seemed to think it was a good idea *shrug* | 05:40 |
| seb128 | for my part I don't like to have a system without the root password after the installation | 05:41 |
| seb128 | that's kind of weird | 05:41 |
| pitti | But actually the separation of system administartion and normal usage was one of the best features of Unix | 05:41 |
| ik5pvx | I don't like it either, but I'm trying to sticking with it to see if I can get used to it | 05:41 |
| pitti | seb128: FULL ACK. Then we could as well have all people work as root | 05:41 |
| rburton | pitti: it has been said this will be an option for systems where it isn't a good idea | 05:41 |
| rburton | it's a great idea for home system, bad idea for office systems | 05:42 |
| pitti | rburton: IMNSHO it isn't a good idea on _every_ system. *shrug* | 05:42 |
| Kamion | do you mean "on any system"? | 05:42 |
| pitti | Kamion: right, I do. Non-native english... | 05:43 |
| Kamion | both are valid English but mean different things :-) | 05:43 |
| pitti | Kamion: I know the difference, just a typo. BTW, d-i now works just _great_! | 05:43 |
| pitti | Kamion: no more silly network questions | 05:43 |
| rburton | i think sudo is great. we're moving to giving our admins sudo root access to avoid typing in that nasty root password all the time | 05:43 |
| pitti | rburton: yes, but then we should install two users: an administrator and a day-to-day user, not just one administrator | 05:44 |
| rburton | why? i can't do root things unless i sudo | 05:44 |
| pitti | rburton: but what keeps a virus or other malicious program to use sudo as well? | 05:45 |
| pitti | s/keeps to/keeps from/ | 05:45 |
| pitti | rburton: entering a password is only required at the first time, then it is kept for a while | 05:46 |
| rburton | in the end, little difference. but the less the root password is shipped around, the better | 05:46 |
| thom | pitti: we have tty_tickets turned on, by the way | 05:46 |
| thom | pitti: so the virus would have to be running on the same tty as the user sudoing | 05:46 |
| pitti | thom: do you think that is uncommon? | 05:47 |
| === tvon [~tvon@h-68-166-65-79.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| Kamion | that would be the normal case, I'd have thought | 05:47 |
| pitti | thom: if I do some admin stuff under X, then go to Evolution and download a virus mail? | 05:47 |
| pitti | thom: will that work with tty_tickets? | 05:48 |
| ik5pvx | wouldn't that be bound to some pty ? | 05:48 |
| thom | pitti: sure, each x term gets a different tty - look at the output of w | 05:48 |
| thom | sudo enabled apps like gnome-system-tools would require testing, tho. i have no idea how that works | 05:49 |
| pitti | thom: but normally users won't start programs in xterm (okay I do, but I'm not an average user) | 05:50 |
| pitti | thom: thanks for that info. I will look at it, at least it seems not to be as bad as I initially thought. | 05:50 |
| thom | pitti: i suspect the correct thing for X applications (ie, things running on :0) is to not cache a ticket | 05:51 |
| ik5pvx | what I've noticed so far, is that I open 4 xterms and fire "sudo bash" in one of them much like I use to run "su" in plain debian | 05:51 |
| Kamion | thom: YES | 05:52 |
| thom | (which is the behaviour OS X has, also) | 05:52 |
| Kamion | it's crucial that people get warned when something is requesting root privilege | 05:53 |
| thom | but we need to fix up gksu to use sudo anyway | 05:53 |
| thom | Kamion: *nod* | 05:53 |
| Kamion | I thought the consensus was that we needed to fix all the .desktop files | 05:53 |
| Kamion | since gksu/gksudo looks at argv[0] to figure out how to act | 05:53 |
| thom | i hadn't seen any consensus, but if that's the case, great | 05:54 |
| Kamion | lamont: have any of the amd64 buildds tried to build debian-installer yet? All the build-deps should be there now. | 05:58 |
| lamont | Kamion: checking | 06:03 |
| lamont | pcmcia-storage-modules-2.6.7-5-amd64-generic-di dep-wait cleared. | 06:04 |
| pitti | mdz: I would still like it best to have a strict root/user separation, but maybe I'm just too conservative | 06:04 |
| Kamion | lamont: aha | 06:05 |
| Kamion | let me know if it breaks, I'll apply a hammer | 06:05 |
| lamont | ok | 06:05 |
| mdz | pitti: it is a usability problem for the user to remember two passwords, especially when one of them is almost never used | 06:05 |
| pitti | mdz: just because the people are misled by windows, we still should teach them about different roles about using a computer, don't? | 06:05 |
| === lamont uploads a new-and-less-annoyed subversion. | ||
| pitti | mdz: agreed about the remembering of the root password. hmmm. | 06:06 |
| pitti | mdz: what about setting up the same password for root by default? | 06:06 |
| thom | pitti: but then user changes password, root doesn't change, more confusion | 06:06 |
| thom | (and at that point, you might just as well use sudo) | 06:06 |
| pitti | mdz: not for people used to Unix already | 06:07 |
| mdz | pitti: yeah, we discussed that and it was as thom says | 06:07 |
| mdz | pitti: people used to unix will immediately "sudo passwd root" | 06:07 |
| Kamion | We can easily set timestamp_timeout=0 for just the initially created user | 06:07 |
| pitti | thom: I think there is a difference: scripts may use sudo, but cannot login as root | 06:07 |
| pitti | mdz: okay, if this was already discussed to death, I will shut up. | 06:07 |
| thom | setting the timestamp seems reasonable | 06:08 |
| Kamion | pitti: this is a pretty new thing, I think discussion is still perfectly reasonable ... | 06:08 |
| pitti | Kamion: I will try to do some bad things with the sudo approach. I know too little about it to really give competent statements, I think. | 06:09 |
| Kamion | base-config (2.44ubuntu2) UNRELEASED; urgency=low | 06:10 |
| Kamion | * lib/menu/passwd: Set timestamp_timeout=0 for the initial user's sudoers | 06:10 |
| Kamion | entry. | 06:10 |
| pitti | mdz: BTW, many friends of mine don't know what 'sudo' is (sudo passwd root), but they are used to different computer usage roles. | 06:10 |
| mdz | pitti: the last screen of the installer should explain how to set the root password | 06:11 |
| mdz | Kamion: did that make it onto your todo list? | 06:11 |
| mdz | the last screen of base-config, that is | 06:11 |
| pitti | mdz: and how to disable universal user admin rights | 06:11 |
| Kamion | the last screen, not the password setting screen? | 06:11 |
| mdz | timestamp_timeout=0 makes it much less usable for the command line | 06:12 |
| mdz | Kamion: what do you think? | 06:12 |
| pitti | Kamion, mdz: instead of printing three or four commands, can we have a small script for that? | 06:12 |
| thom | mdz: nod. can we set it just for things running on :0 ? | 06:12 |
| Kamion | I guess it's a final-message thing | 06:12 |
| mdz | thom: I think it's only global | 06:12 |
| mdz | Kamion: yeah, I was thinking it was, but then, the last message is worded such that people don't generally read it | 06:12 |
| mdz | "this says I'm done <dismiss>" | 06:12 |
| Kamion | I'd be more comfortable with it not caching tickets by default | 06:12 |
| Kamion | I think the change will be an easier sell that way | 06:13 |
| pitti | Kamion: agreed | 06:13 |
| Kamion | mdz: true, but that applies to most of the installer | 06:13 |
| Kamion | "this is some informational text, I don't need to read this <dismiss>" | 06:13 |
| pitti | Kamion: "Security advice, please read carefully:" ? | 06:14 |
| mdz | the default configuration should at least please the beginner *or* the power user as much as possible | 06:14 |
| pitti | Kamion: there will still be people who ignore it, but they won't care much about security anyway | 06:14 |
| mdz | if we try to please both, I think we end up pleasing neither | 06:14 |
| Kamion | mdz: easy to put a comment in /etc/sudoers about it ... power users can remove it | 06:14 |
| pitti | If we have to pick, we should pick the beginner. | 06:14 |
| mdz | and it is much easier for the power user to customize the configuration | 06:14 |
| pitti | yes | 06:15 |
| mdz | pitti: right | 06:15 |
| Kamion | I don't think having to enter your *own* password each time you want to do something rootly is a usability problem | 06:15 |
| pitti | although from a security POV it should be secure by default. Wham. Contradiction. | 06:15 |
| pitti | but I think you cannot have both, secure and user friendly contradict inherently. | 06:15 |
| Kamion | that's a bit fatalistic :-) | 06:16 |
| pitti | Kamion: no, in fact I think it is one of the basic wisdoms of system construction | 06:16 |
| mdz | sudo fulfills the safety requirement quite well, I think | 06:17 |
| fabbione | mdz: would you consider a package split a feature? | 06:17 |
| mdz | especially with no caching, the user will always be prompted before they begin a potentially dangerous action | 06:17 |
| pitti | mdz: but still this should be explained somewhere | 06:17 |
| mdz | fabbione: context? | 06:17 |
| fabbione | mdz: splitting xfonts* out of xfree86*. one upload for the rest of the life and that's it | 06:17 |
| mdz | and in reality, it is actually quite close from a security perspective | 06:18 |
| mdz | anyone who is able to take over a uid of a user who uses su *or* sudo has root | 06:18 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: fwiw, on MOSX apps, if you are in a "dangerous" application, you have the lock in the bottom right.. would something similar work? | 06:18 |
| mdz | Mithrandir: that'd be neat, something to look at for Hoary maybe | 06:18 |
| mdz | fabbione: splitting the source package you mean? | 06:19 |
| pitti | mdz, Kamion: right now, gksu asks for a root password, which I don't have. I assume this will get fixed? | 06:19 |
| fabbione | mdz: yes. same binary packages. | 06:19 |
| lamont | mdz: context can be found in scrollback at ~0818 PDT | 06:19 |
| Mithrandir | I don't think copying what windows or macos is doing just because they are doing it is any good, but looking at them and what they do well is, IMHO, very useful. | 06:19 |
| Kamion | pitti: that's definitely considered a bug | 06:19 |
| mdz | fabbione: I would prefer to avoid it at this stage. this is something that has gone into XSF svn, I assume? | 06:19 |
| Kamion | pitti: (that we use gksu rather than gksudo, that is) | 06:20 |
| fabbione | mdz: basically each xfree86 upload will NOT force users to upgrade 100Mb of fonts for nothing | 06:20 |
| mdz | yes, I believe jdub is fixing that | 06:20 |
| fabbione | mdz: no something i did in my spare time. | 06:20 |
| fabbione | s/spare/hobby/ or whatever | 06:20 |
| fabbione | it's not in svn yet and it won't be for sarge | 06:20 |
| === tvon [~tvon@h-68-166-65-79.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net] has left #ubuntu ["Leaving"] | ||
| pitti | mdz: good news! sid's and warty's hotplug packages already support per-package usb usermaps, so I can modify libgphoto to automatically allow camera access to users | 06:21 |
| fabbione | pitti: cool... because i bought a digital camera today :-9 | 06:21 |
| pitti | fabbione: well, if it supports usb-storage you won't have a problem anyway | 06:22 |
| pitti | fabbione: does it? | 06:22 |
| fabbione | pitti: i can't say yet.. battery has to charge for 12 hours the first time :((( | 06:22 |
| mdz | fabbione: it would be nice, but stability is more important that convenience now that we are in feature freeze | 06:22 |
| mdz | pitti: great! | 06:22 |
| pitti | mdz: it is a small change, no code modification necessary | 06:22 |
| pitti | mdz: sorry, I think that did not apply to gphoto, did it? | 06:23 |
| fabbione | mdz: if i do it and it works.. would you accept it? | 06:23 |
| seb128 | mdz: could we get bugzilla components for xscreensaver, gnome-applets and trashapplet ? | 06:26 |
| daniels | fabbione: ber | 06:28 |
| daniels | thom: my OmniBook called my batteries BAT0 and BAT1 | 06:29 |
| fabbione | daniels: ? | 06:30 |
| daniels | fabbione: 'wake up kid' | 06:30 |
| daniels | thom: also, why did you give me 842, take it back, then give it to me, and seemingly take it back again? | 06:30 |
| thom | daniels: didn't. i gave you something completely different, took it back, then gave you the correct bug | 06:31 |
| fabbione | daniels: oh... hmmm... i can't remember... | 06:32 |
| daniels | thom: oh, right | 06:32 |
| fabbione | daniels: i am getting old | 06:32 |
| daniels | yes | 06:32 |
| daniels | fabbione: yes ;P | 06:32 |
| fabbione | daniels: oh yeah.. it was about the xfonts... | 06:32 |
| fabbione | daniels: just read above | 06:32 |
| daniels | fabbione: sure, i have split source packages for xfonts ready to go | 06:33 |
| fabbione | daniels: so do i | 06:33 |
| fabbione | Extracting source xfonts86-4.3.0.tar.gz ... successful. | 06:34 |
| daniels | fabbione: yes, but yours suck :P | 06:34 |
| === doko_ [~doko@dsl-082-083-139-070.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| daniels | don't build them, it's a waste of time | 06:34 |
| fabbione | daniels: it's a waste of bw each time we upload X | 06:34 |
| daniels | build them once as little-endian, let the others cop the tiny overhead of byte-swapping; core fonts are shit anyway | 06:35 |
| daniels | fabbione: yes, i know. that's why i advocate splitting the fonts. | 06:35 |
| daniels | but, you can just do it like my xfonts package, which only ever runs 'install' | 06:35 |
| daniels | no building, no invocation of imake, no gzip | 06:35 |
| fabbione | daniels: we still build them once... just do it once and stop doing it.. that was the idea | 06:35 |
| daniels | you just ship some pre-gzipped little-endian fonts | 06:35 |
| daniels | fabbione: right. do you want the source package that does that, and nothing else? it's right here :) | 06:35 |
| fabbione | daniels: have a package already | 06:36 |
| fabbione | we still need mdz blessing for anything | 06:36 |
| daniels | ok | 06:36 |
| fabbione | otherwise it's hoary feature | 06:36 |
| daniels | i'll put mine up tomorrow ehN i wake uip (it's 0236), if you could put yours up in the meantime that would be great | 06:36 |
| fabbione | at that point fonts will be "irrelevant" from xfree86 | 06:36 |
| fabbione | daniels: i will see if i finish with all the details | 06:36 |
| daniels | ok | 06:36 |
| fabbione | i am cleaning up the debs now | 06:36 |
| fabbione | tho i have spend only a hour or so on it | 06:37 |
| daniels | but yeah, I just did a neat little trick with a for loop and dpkg -L | 06:37 |
| daniels | or reading *.install, or whatever it was | 06:37 |
| daniels | but either way, end result was i just put the .pcf.gz's into a few separate directories, tared it up and called it a source package, and the build just uses install(1) | 06:37 |
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| daniels | (they didn't all convert cleanly to ttf, and i didn't have time) | 06:38 |
| fabbione | daniels: no i actually stripped down to minimum the xfree86.orig.tar.gz and still build them. | 06:38 |
| fabbione | it doesn't take long really | 06:38 |
| daniels | why? | 06:38 |
| daniels | it actually takes a bit, and it's totally unnecessary | 06:38 |
| fabbione | because it's easy to keep in sync with xfree86 tree | 06:38 |
| fabbione | it's all patched and nice and dandy :-) | 06:39 |
| daniels | which never changes :P | 06:39 |
| fabbione | + you need to provide the source anyway | 06:39 |
| daniels | i dunno, i just figure that if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right | 06:39 |
| fabbione | and a build method | 06:39 |
| daniels | dude, that's close enough to source. anyone who cares that much about that crap can go bitch about sounds without source. | 06:39 |
| daniels | i can see not shipping gzip'ed, and also that being a good idea | 06:40 |
| daniels | but i don't see the point of always building them | 06:40 |
| mdz | pitti: I was talking about the font stuff | 06:40 |
| fabbione | daniels: always = one time | 06:40 |
| fabbione | daniels: of course... if you do it right | 06:40 |
| daniels | fabbione: still don't see the point, to be honest | 06:40 |
| daniels | i just think it's overengineering, and a waste of time :) but hey, it's not my time being wasted, so 'sup to you | 06:40 |
| mdz | fabbione: I would really prefer not to change the packaging in that way when we are so close to release; the benefit to users of the Warty release is practically nil | 06:40 |
| daniels | in the meantime, I'm going to attempt to garner some sleep | 06:41 |
| daniels | mdz: it's a huge boon to me, let me tell you that now | 06:41 |
| mdz | seb128: yes, I'll add them | 06:41 |
| fabbione | mdz: ok.. it will wait hoary and daniels packages :P | 06:41 |
| daniels | mdz: the appearance (e.g. binary) doesn't change | 06:41 |
| seb128 | mdz: ok, thanks | 06:41 |
| daniels | ho hum | 06:41 |
| fabbione | mdz: i will send you lamont complains on each X upload ... ;) | 06:41 |
| === fabbione runs away | ||
| mdz | seb128: done | 06:42 |
| seb128 | thanks | 06:42 |
| fabbione | mdz: anyway.. i was kidding before.. it's fine by me. | 06:43 |
| fabbione | it's there and it's ready | 06:43 |
| seb128 | mdz: libgtop2 (which is a part of the GNOME desktop) has just made a soname change. Warty has only 2 reverse depends on it, there is no problem to update to the new version now (I've the 3 packages ready, just checking) ? | 06:44 |
| mdz | seb128: sounds fine | 06:44 |
| seb128 | ok | 06:44 |
| mdz | pitti: did you see my mail to the list about pmount/gvm? how are we going to handle unmounting? | 06:57 |
| pitti | mdz: I'm at the phone, will return later | 06:58 |
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| pitti | mdz: I'm back, sorry, was a long talk. | 07:20 |
| pitti | mdz: I read it. | 07:20 |
| pitti | mdz: To me it seems that the most consistent and intuitive way of umounting the device is to close the nautilus window | 07:21 |
| pitti | mdz: but the problem is what to do if there is still a process using the device | 07:21 |
| mdz | pitti: fuser -k? :-) | 07:22 |
| pitti | mdz: isn't there a context menu entry of "ejecting" the device? | 07:22 |
| mdz | closing the nautilus window sounds quite nice; is that actually straightforward to implement? | 07:22 |
| mdz | I did not see one | 07:22 |
| pitti | mdz: the safest method is still to do the ejecting manually | 07:22 |
| pitti | mdz: I don't know anything about the gnome stuff, so I cannot say how easy it is | 07:22 |
| mdz | pitti: this is a USB flash reader; the hardware doesn't actually have an 'eject' concept | 07:22 |
| mdz | but I stil need to unmount it before i can disconnect the device or remove the card from the slot | 07:23 |
| pitti | mdz: I would still prefer either a context menu (umount, eject, release, whatever) or a small icon | 07:23 |
| Mithrandir | mdz: nautilus could send "window closed" messages onto the dbus? ;) | 07:23 |
| pitti | mdz: Windows calls it "safe remove" IIRC | 07:23 |
| mdz | seb128: how is eject/remove supposed to work in nautilus? | 07:23 |
| seb128 | mdz: right click on the device icon, eject/umount | 07:24 |
| pitti | seb128: ah, that's why I'm unable to umount the device on my iBook :-) | 07:24 |
| mdz | hmm | 07:25 |
| mdz | I didn't get a device icon | 07:25 |
| seb128 | in the computer place ? | 07:25 |
| mdz | neither on the desktop, nor the Computer icon | 07:25 |
| seb128 | is the device listed in fstab ? | 07:25 |
| mdz | no, this was a removable device mounted by pmount | 07:25 |
| mdz | via g-v-m | 07:25 |
| seb128 | hum | 07:25 |
| seb128 | nautilus uses fstab | 07:25 |
| mdz | nautilus should rather use mtab, shouldn't it? | 07:26 |
| seb128 | hum, yes | 07:26 |
| seb128 | but I think it manages only the devices listed in fstab | 07:26 |
| pitti | seb128: npmccallum already prepared a version which uses pmount | 07:27 |
| pitti | seb128: and doesn't need an fstab entry | 07:27 |
| seb128 | ok, cool | 07:27 |
| pitti | seb128: is it possible to include an eject/umount/whatever option in the normal nautilus menu? I don't have a context menu | 07:28 |
| pitti | seb128: (because Ubuntu doesn't automatically install mouse button emulation) | 07:28 |
| === ploum is now known as ploum_a_le_pseud | ||
| === ploum_a_le_pseud is now known as ploum_tout_court | ||
| seb128 | pitti: I don't think so, but I'm sure there is a keyboard shortcut to open the menu | 07:29 |
| pitti | seb128: do you also happen to know which? | 07:30 |
| seb128 | I'm searching .... | 07:30 |
| seb128 | I've not given it directly because I don't remember :) | 07:31 |
| pitti | seb128: don't bother, if you don't know I can google myself | 07:32 |
| pitti | seb128: Shift-F10 | 07:33 |
| seb128 | oh yes | 07:33 |
| seb128 | I've tried ctrl+F10 | 07:33 |
| seb128 | but not shift :) | 07:33 |
| pitti | seb128: so do you see any obstacles for adding the same context menu entry for pmounted devices which don't have a fstab entry? | 07:34 |
| seb128 | no | 07:34 |
| seb128 | should not be a problem | 07:35 |
| === tvon [~tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| pitti | seb128: this will require to use 'pumount /dev/foo' instead of 'umount /dev/foo', other changes should not be necessary | 07:37 |
| seb128 | yeah | 07:37 |
| pitti | fabbione: congrats! I just installed the latest warty ppc daily build, and it installed X without a single question. Cool! | 07:42 |
| fabbione | pitti: does it work? ;) | 07:45 |
| pitti | fabbione: like a charm :-) | 07:46 |
| pitti | fabbione: it even picked the correct resolution | 07:46 |
| pitti | fabbione: my last daily build cd set up 800x600 | 07:46 |
| fabbione | nice :-) | 07:46 |
| pitti | fabbione: however, I did not look which driver it uses, have to do that tomorrow. I have to go now (Tae Kwon Do training) | 07:47 |
| pitti | fabbione: but even if it is the vesa driver, it is just a nice install experience | 07:47 |
| pitti | see you tomorrow, guys! | 07:47 |
| fabbione | pitti: thanks :-))) | 07:47 |
| fabbione | have fun | 07:47 |
| mjg59 | I'm testing Sounder 7 on an old Digital laptop | 08:08 |
| mjg59 | It's got a CMD646 IDE chipset. Whenever ubuntu tries to touch stuff on the IDE bus, I get DMA timeout errors. | 08:08 |
| mjg59 | Is there any way to disable DMA? | 08:08 |
| === diieman is now known as dieman | ||
| dieman | ow | 08:09 |
| dieman | mjg59: ide=nodma? | 08:11 |
| Kamion | mdz: so, am I doing the timestamp_timeout=0 thing or not? I'm about to upload base-config for another reason ... | 08:13 |
| mjg59 | dieman: Does giving that to the kernel work, or does it need to be a module paramater? | 08:13 |
| mdz | Kamion: it's OK with me if you and pitti agree | 08:13 |
| Kamion | hm, he's left | 08:14 |
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| Kamion | OK, we'll try it out and see what people make of the dailies | 08:14 |
| mdz | Kamion: it sounded like there was a consensus on #warthogs | 08:14 |
| mdz | apart from me, anyway; I'm undecided | 08:14 |
| Kamion | well, it's easily reversible if need be | 08:15 |
| mjg59 | Oh, no, hang on | 08:18 |
| mjg59 | "PCI: Device 000:00:09.0 not available because of resource collisions" | 08:18 |
| dieman | mjg59: oh god, i dont know if you can just give that to the kernel | 08:20 |
| dieman | mjg59: is it trying to use acpi? | 08:21 |
| mjg59 | No, it's too ancient for that | 08:21 |
| dieman | hmm | 08:21 |
| mjg59 | It's a Pentium 233 | 08:21 |
| dieman | pci=biosirq? | 08:21 |
| mjg59 | Might be worth a go | 08:21 |
| mjg59 | I'm just going to skip loading the module for now | 08:21 |
| === lamont__ [~lamont@mesaradio41.customer.frii.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| Kamion | do we want ACPI (e.g. fan module) support in the installer? | 08:28 |
| Kamion | if so, does it count as a feature? :-) I'm going to need to pull in various bits from unstable ... | 08:28 |
| === npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| Kamion | hm, I think I can convince main-menu to save the debconf priority when you back up and then restore it when you select a menu item | 08:52 |
| Kamion | that would make d-i's backup behaviour much more intuitive | 08:52 |
| mdz | that would be excellent | 08:55 |
| mdz | Kamion: does Keybuk's laptop overheat itself during the install if we don't? | 08:55 |
| lamont__ | burning keybuks legs could be considered a bug or a feature, depending on perspective... :-) | 08:57 |
| Kamion | dunno ... | 08:57 |
| Kamion | mmm, crispy fried Keybuk | 08:57 |
| lamont__ | cranky crispy fried Keybuk | 08:58 |
| dieman | heh | 08:59 |
| mdz | hey, Keybuk is around; he just posted to the list | 09:09 |
| mdz | he's just hiding | 09:09 |
| mdz | Kamion: can you send him an email and ask him about the ACPI stuff? | 09:10 |
| mjg59 | thom: Found a laptop without ACPI or a dmi table | 09:18 |
| === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| Kamion | Keybuk: do you think we need ACPI fan module support in d-i? | 09:46 |
| Kamion | as in, will your laptop overheat if we don't? | 09:47 |
| Keybuk | it's a good point | 09:47 |
| Keybuk | I suspect the answer is yet | 09:47 |
| Keybuk | yes | 09:47 |
| Keybuk | if the kernel has ACPI support enabled on boot, then it'll tell modern laptops not to do any power management of their own -- so yeah, will need the thermal + fan modules loaded | 09:48 |
| Kamion | Aug 31 19:49:21 (none) user.info main-menu[505] : INFO: Restoring default debconf priority 'critical' | 09:49 |
| Kamion | so much better | 09:49 |
| jdub | Kamion: yo yo | 10:33 |
| jdub | Kamion: did we decide against hdparm in d-i? | 10:33 |
| jdub | seb128: around | 10:34 |
| mdz | is there some way to tell pbbuttonsd (or whatever would be responsible) to set the fan to a certain minimum speed? | 10:35 |
| mdz | the fan in this thing is constantly speeding up and slowing down, and it's very distracting | 10:35 |
| elmo | mdz: no, the fan stuff on new powerbooks seems to be hardcoded into the kernel, it's very distressing | 10:36 |
| elmo | (well, I'm assuming you're on a powerbook...) | 10:36 |
| mdz | this is a desktop, but it seems to support the same power management interface | 10:36 |
| mdz | /dev/pmu and all that | 10:36 |
| Keybuk | on ACPI PCs you can fiddle with /proc/acpi to change your fan trip points; dunno if there's a Macequivalent | 10:36 |
| mdz | that was my question :-) | 10:37 |
| elmo | mdz: if it's using therm_adt76x or whatever it is, same problem | 10:37 |
| elmo | if it's something else, there may be /proc hooks | 10:37 |
| mdz | seems to use therm_windtunnel | 10:37 |
| mdz | well great | 10:38 |
| mdz | in fact, loading that module seems to have helped a lot | 10:38 |
| === Keybuk calls for the screencleaner | ||
| mdz | Temp: 34.5 C Hyst: 75.0 C OS: 80.0 C | 10:38 |
| mdz | Reducing overheating limit to 65.0 C (Hyst: 60.0 C) | 10:38 |
| mdz | CPU-temp: 34.7 C, Case: 32.3 C, Fan: 0 (tuned -11) | 10:38 |
| Kamion | jdub: I think we decided for it, I just haven't done it yet ... | 10:40 |
| Kamion | jdub: in fact, how about I file a bug so that I remember | 10:40 |
| jdub | ahr, ok :) | 10:40 |
| edd | thom? | 10:49 |
| edd | slacker. | 10:49 |
| === Keybuk contemplates a new iMac | ||
| edd | i like all the white plastic - you could use a board marker to take notes on it! | 10:50 |
| Keybuk | lol | 10:50 |
| Keybuk | they're really going for white-plastic at the moment, aren't they | 10:51 |
| fabbione | Keybuk: thanks for testing | 10:54 |
| Keybuk | fabbione: other than baby-daniel's failure to upload a working version of discover1-data ... it looked great | 10:54 |
| fabbione | good... | 10:54 |
| === npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| pitti | mdz: we still need a new group for allowing local user access to removeable devices. I'd favor a single group for USB sticks, cameras and FireWire devices, do you think we should split that into several groups? | 10:59 |
| jdub | Keybuk: the best feature of the new imac is that the old imacs are going to be cheaper! | 11:00 |
| mjg59 | finger isn't in the default install? | 11:01 |
| jdub | no | 11:01 |
| jdub | it's in supported | 11:01 |
| mjg59 | sudo gives warnings if it's run on a system installed without networking | 11:02 |
| mjg59 | "unable to lookup foo via gethostbyname()" | 11:02 |
| mjg59 | I gave it a hostname, but the only entry in /etc/hosts is localhost | 11:03 |
| mjg59 | (Sounder 7) | 11:03 |
| thom | edd: sup? | 11:07 |
| mjg59 | thom: I have an "interesting" laptop for you | 11:08 |
| thom | mjg59: yeah, that looked kinda scary | 11:08 |
| thom | mjg59: what is it? | 11:08 |
| mjg59 | thom: It's a Digital Hinote - circa 1997, at a guess | 11:08 |
| mjg59 | Pentium 233 | 11:08 |
| thom | yow | 11:08 |
| thom | RUN AWAY! | 11:08 |
| mjg59 | Only thing that springs to mind is to have a kernel with apm support (the kernel will fall back to it if acpi fails) and then check the apm bios for a battery | 11:09 |
| edd | thom: acpi results for you | 11:09 |
| thom | edd: ahah :-) | 11:09 |
| pitti | Kamion: still there? | 11:10 |
| thom | mjg59: seems a reasonable move | 11:10 |
| Kamion | pitti: not for much longer, but yeah | 11:10 |
| edd | thom: on the sony tr1mp there are two directories, 'lid' and 'power', inside lid is another directory, LID0 with files 'info' and 'state'. inside power is PWRB, with one file 'info' | 11:10 |
| thom | excellent | 11:11 |
| thom | that's what i wanted to hear | 11:11 |
| pitti | Kamion: we still need another group to put the first user in, for accessing removeable devices like cameras, usb sticks, etc. | 11:11 |
| pitti | Kamion: we want to restrict mount/umount access to this group | 11:12 |
| pitti | Kamion: and also gphoto device node access | 11:12 |
| === Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| pitti | Kamion: but this must be done already in base-config | 11:12 |
| pitti | Kamion: the name was slightly discussed in #810, but it did not come to a conclusion | 11:13 |
| tvon|lurking | IRT: Warty Bounties: GNOME GUI for bittorrent - I'd suggest gnome-btdownload | 11:14 |
| tvon|lurking | http://gnome-bt.sourceforge.net/ | 11:14 |
| Keybuk | cute | 11:15 |
| edd | Great for stealing things! | 11:16 |
| edd | So, do we get libdvdcss too? | 11:16 |
| jdub | no :) | 11:16 |
| edd | Ah, so warty will let me steal movies but not play the ones I own :) | 11:17 |
| Gman | isn't the background image enough? | 11:17 |
| Gman | [sorry, couldn't resist] | 11:17 |
| jdub | tvon|lurking: you can add that as a comment to the wiki if you want :) | 11:17 |
| tvon|lurking | sure | 11:17 |
| Kamion | pitti: unless it has to be a global static group (in which case it has to go into Debian's base-passwd, at least in svn), I don't really mind about the name | 11:17 |
| Kamion | pitti: you're welcome to modify base-config yourself to add that group once the name and function are decided | 11:18 |
| pitti | Kamion: I think a static group is not required, a system group will suffice | 11:18 |
| pitti | Kamion: Okay, I will do. What do you think of 'plugdev'? | 11:18 |
| pitti | Kamion: 'devices | 11:18 |
| pitti | Kamion: 'devices' is too generic, I think | 11:18 |
| doko | mdz: there was no response to the proposal of syncing the python2.3 package from unstable. what should we do now? | 11:19 |
| Kamion | I agree devices is too generic; plugdev is OK, I guess, doesn't really grab me but none of the names so far have done :) | 11:19 |
| pitti | Kamion: same for me, don't have a better idea for a short and good name | 11:19 |
| lamont | Mithrandir: still awake? | 11:19 |
| === ploum [~ploum@231-238.243.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu | ||
| ploum | Just a question | 11:22 |
| ploum | where does "warty" name come from ? | 11:22 |
| jdub | ploum: it's the warty warthog release :-) | 11:23 |
| jdub | ploum: 'warty' sort of means 'patchy' or 'a bit buggy' | 11:23 |
| jdub | ploum: and we thought the first release might be a bit warty ;) | 11:24 |
| ploum | jdub, in french warty means "verol" and that's not pretty | 11:24 |
| ploum | but I don't understand "warthog' | 11:24 |
| ploum | (babelfish doesn't help me ;) ) | 11:24 |
| jdub | a warthog is an animal in africa | 11:24 |
| jdub | not a very pretty one ;) | 11:25 |
| tvon|lurking | hrm. Latest upgrade/dist-upgrade seems to hange on 'Preconfiguring packages...' | 11:25 |
| jdub | google images should help you out :) | 11:25 |
| ploum | jdub, yes, indeed | 11:25 |
| ploum | I see | 11:25 |
| ploum | "phacochre" in french :-) | 11:25 |
| ploum | http://www.seaworld.org/AnimalBytes/images/warthog.gif | 11:25 |
| ploum | and Ubuntu ? | 11:25 |
| pitti | Kamion: actually the new group does the same as 'cdrom', but this name is misleading for the new intention. | 11:26 |
| mdz | pitti: I think a single group is better | 11:26 |
| pitti | Kamion: the problem with a new group would be how to handle a seamless update from woody and older wartys | 11:26 |
| pitti | Kamion: if I just upload a new restricted mount, this would break upgrades, i. e. the users could not mount any more | 11:27 |
| jdub | ploum: ubuntu is defined on the wiki (in the FAQ) | 11:27 |
| ploum | jdub, sorry | 11:27 |
| Keybuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu | 11:27 |
| mjg59 | Oh, arse | 11:27 |
| jdub | Keybuk: ooh, can you add that to the wiki? | 11:28 |
| mjg59 | This laptop is insane - it's got an i82365 /and/ a yenta | 11:28 |
| mjg59 | 2.6 is massively unhappy with that | 11:28 |
| Keybuk | jdub: k. | 11:28 |
| jdub | mdz: are we going to have kernel pacakges to test from herbert soon? | 11:29 |
| === jdub feels queasy | ||
| Keybuk | jdub: you getting two-weeks-to-release edginess? | 11:30 |
| jdub | very much so | 11:31 |
| jdub | i love it :) | 11:31 |
| pitti | ploum: actually, my first thought of 'Warthogs' was Harry Potter's 'Hogwarts' backwards :-) | 11:31 |
| jdub | haven't got this buzz with gnome for ages ;) | 11:31 |
| ploum | pitti, I don't read Harry Potter but I can imagine | 11:32 |
| spiv | jdub: When the buzz wears off Ubuntu releases, what are you going to do for your next fix? | 11:32 |
| jdub | terraforming | 11:32 |
| jdub | time-based terraforming | 11:32 |
| jdub | daniels: ping | 11:33 |
| tvon|lurking | hrm | 11:34 |
| tvon|lurking | along with my 'preconfigure packages' hang with apt-get upgrade, I have a bunch of "/bin/sh /tmp/xserver-xfee86.config....." processes running | 11:34 |
| tvon|lurking | perhaps because I tried the upgrade a number of times | 11:34 |
| Keybuk | jdub: http://descent.netsplit.com/~scott/kids.mp3 -- but for releases | 11:34 |
| pitti | mdz: any idea how to smoothly handle upgrades to the 'plugdev'-restricted mount/camera/whatever system? | 11:35 |
| mdz | pitti: specifically? | 11:35 |
| pitti | mdz: we should not just put every existing user with uid > 1000 into that group | 11:35 |
| mdz | jdub: I was supposed to have them today, but he had trouble connecting to the ssh service I set up for him | 11:36 |
| mdz | pitti: oh, I don't think we need to worry too much about that, just do it in base-config | 11:36 |
| jdub | mdz: ahr | 11:36 |
| mdz | pitti: we can send an email to the sounder list about it | 11:36 |
| pitti | mdz: agreed for the sounders, but what about upgrades from woody? | 11:36 |
| pitti | mdz: I thought woody upgrades should be supported? | 11:37 |
| hypatia | Afternoon... | 11:37 |
| mdz | pitti: they are, but we do not expect to make such intrusive changes to their working configuration | 11:37 |
| mdz | pitti: this is not something which is required for a successful upgrade | 11:37 |
| pitti | mdz: agreed, but we have to explain that somewhere | 11:37 |
| === hypatia has just acquired a machine to work^W... test Ubuntu on | ||
| jdub | "What ought to happen is desktop Linux proponents should wake up and switch to Mac OS instead." | 11:38 |
| jdub | http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1641114,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 | 11:38 |
| pitti | mdz: I think somebody would kill me if I added a high-priority debconf note | 11:38 |
| thom | hypatia: new laptop? | 11:38 |
| hypatia | thom: Yep! | 11:38 |
| thom | what'ya get? | 11:38 |
| hypatia | Fujitsu Lifebook | 11:38 |
| ploum | I've just seen in the wiki that you are looking for : | 11:38 |
| ploum | GNOME GUI for bittorrent | 11:38 |
| thom | ahr | 11:39 |
| hypatia | spiv said "they're awesome, you realise the magic for the X config is insane?" | 11:39 |
| thom | the crusoe ones? | 11:39 |
| ploum | well, it's maybe a good idea to start learning gnome-python | 11:39 |
| hypatia | but he thinks I'm OK because it has a normal aspect ratio | 11:39 |
| hypatia | thom: no, centrino, alas | 11:39 |
| thom | i wonder if they get the code morphing right yet | 11:39 |
| thom | oh, bugger | 11:39 |
| hypatia | The nuttiness with finding a US vendor has caused me to lower my standards. | 11:40 |
| ploum | I will try this someday | 11:40 |
| jdub | hypatia: i was going to recommend the dell x300 to you | 11:40 |
| mjg59 | Arse. What I want to do appears to be impossible with 2.6. | 11:40 |
| thom | jdub: dell? EWWWW! | 11:40 |
| Keybuk | "The best Linux desktops are still beyond the skills of average mortals and enjoy very limited application support." | 11:40 |
| Keybuk | heh | 11:40 |
| jdub | thom: that's what i thought, but the x300 is great. | 11:40 |
| hypatia | jdub: thanks for the thought anyway. | 11:40 |
| jdub | SCOTT WINS A PRIZE | 11:41 |
| hypatia | jdub: Next time I will be around for wider soundings :) | 11:41 |
| jdub | Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request | 11:41 |
| jdub | approval: | 11:41 |
| jdub | For: scott@canonical.com | 11:41 |
| jdub | List: sounder@lists.no-name-yet.com | 11:41 |
| jdub | 11:41 | |
| thom | jdub: i'd not put money on a dell laptop making it past the first month these days | 11:41 |
| pitti | mdz: so I just do the mods and we put a stanza about this into the release notes? | 11:42 |
| mdz | pitti: sure | 11:42 |
| mdz | pitti: we can't provide exactly the same experience on upgrades, since we won't risk intrusive changes to the user's configuration | 11:43 |
| pitti | mdz: okay, will do. BTW, do you agree to my propsed todo list? | 11:43 |
| mdz | pitti: I need to review it | 11:43 |
| Keybuk | jdub: I played with an x300 about the time I bought my new laptop, it didn't feel solid at all | 11:43 |
| Keybuk | I got the impression it wouldn't last ten minutes in my rucksack | 11:43 |
| pitti | mdz: can you reply to the mail please? I'm going to bed now. | 11:43 |
| mdz | pitti: but in a nutshell, you need to finish the implementation of the removable device support as soon as possible so that you can focus on bugfixing for the release | 11:44 |
| === Gman agrees with Keybuk and thom | ||
| Gman | never buy a dell laptop | 11:44 |
| jdub | Keybuk: which series is yours again? | 11:44 |
| jdub | Keybuk: nc8000? | 11:44 |
| pitti | mdz: yeah, I will work that out with npmccallum | 11:44 |
| mdz | pitti: I will respond to the mail when I have a chance | 11:45 |
| pitti | mdz: thanks! good night! | 11:45 |
| Keybuk | nc4010 | 11:45 |
| Keybuk | the 8000 is *huge* | 11:45 |
| Keybuk | nc4010 is the 12" notebook, nc6000 is the laptop, nc8000 is the hoverbook | 11:45 |
| jdub | ahr | 11:45 |
| hypatia | there are still some nc4000s floating around in au I think. | 11:46 |
| === tvon|lurking digs the X31 | ||
| hypatia | I guess that's the previous model. | 11:46 |
| Keybuk | hypatia: they still sell the 4000 as well | 11:46 |
| jdub | hypatia: where was that place that james got his? | 11:46 |
| mdz | wtf is ttf-freefont-udeb for? | 11:46 |
| jdub | mdz: gtkfb frontent? | 11:47 |
| Oskuro | that's a good question | 11:47 |
| jdub | frontend | 11:47 |
| Oskuro | jdub: does that exist? | 11:47 |
| jdub | yeah | 11:47 |
| jdub | it's arse, but yeah | 11:47 |
| hypatia | jdub: Red's Notebook World on wattle street. | 11:47 |
| hypatia | jdub: They don't have an onli9ne catalogue. | 11:47 |
| jdub | oh | 11:47 |
| Keybuk | if you want a 12", the IBM X40 and HP nc4010 are the best two out there. the HP is a little more pricey, but a bit more powerful and has a touchpad; the X40 is slightly smaller and lighter, but is evil and out to take over the world <g> | 11:48 |
| jdub | the HP is *more* expensive? | 11:48 |
| thom | the X40 has working acpi, too ;-) | 11:49 |
| Keybuk | thom: but the nc4010 has working WiFi <g> | 11:50 |
| thom | as does the X40 | 11:50 |
| thom | (ipw2100 by default ;-) ) | 11:50 |
| Keybuk | there was something else you were bitching about the other day; what was that? :p | 11:50 |
| thom | probably the stupid names HP used on the 4010 ;P | 11:51 |
| Keybuk | I mean something that didn't work on the X40 | 11:51 |
| thom | the escape key isn't ideally placed | 11:52 |
| jdub | Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a0009' | 11:53 |
| jdub | Subscript out of range: '[number: 0] ' | 11:53 |
| jdub | /Store/includes/nav_left_family.inc, line 8 | 11:53 |
| jdub | ^ hp's website | 11:53 |
| jdub | brilliant | 11:53 |
| Keybuk | the acpi names are odd, the 4000 has BAT0/BAT1 etc. is the 4010 that doesn't; but then they're just random strings anyway, so isn't hugely worryable | 11:53 |
| jdub | the dell has 3 years warranty | 11:54 |
| thom | "worryable". you just made that up :-) | 11:54 |
| jdub | so if it fucks up, i can get it replaced | 11:54 |
| jdub | and it is nice, cheap, has all the features i want | 11:54 |
| thom | "if" | 11:54 |
| thom | when, dude. when | 11:54 |
| jdub | and i'm probably going to replace it in a year anyway | 11:55 |
| thom | only 100mb ethernet? | 11:55 |
| thom | optional bluetooth? | 11:57 |
| jdub | comes with bluetooth | 11:57 |
| thom | Dell Wireless 300 internal Bluetooth module (optional at point of sale only) | 11:57 |
| jdub | yeah, free this month | 11:57 |
| jdub | think the nic is 100mbit, yeah -> like i'm going to have a gige switch given that i didn't even have a 100mb switch until i got the wrt54g | 11:58 |
| jdub | and it'll always be on wireless here anywya ;) | 11:58 |
| jdub | so wish i could buy it without windows though | 11:59 |
| thom | and dude, it looks /so/ ugly | 11:59 |
| jdub | looked nice to me | 11:59 |
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