Keybukthom: remember, anything's better than that toilet seat of his <g>12:03
thomKeybuk: in this case i'm not sure i agree12:03
=== lamont is happy with 100MB ethernet..
tvonhrm...redhat has a new site12:05
jdublooks less arse :)12:05
mdzthom: I'm thinking of remapping my F1 key to be escape as well12:14
Oskuromdz: better than starting stupeed yelp12:15
Oskuronight folks12:15
mdzOskuro: yes, I never use it for help12:15
Oskuromdz: got my mail, by the way?12:15
Keybukand your Ctrl/Fn keys are the wrong way round12:15
mdzOskuro: mail?12:15
Keybukwhich reminds me ...12:15
OskuroI'm sure it wasn't that helpful12:15
Oskuromdz: re: webcam12:15
Keybukfabbione: would you accept a patch to xlibs to add support for the Right Ctrl key being mapped to Compose ?12:15
=== lamont burns his remaining bandwidth allocation in an end-of-the-month spree...
mdzOskuro: oh, yes.  it turns out that the binary-only driver has been discontinued, the author took the page down12:15
mdzso we only have what is in the kernel anyway12:15
Oskurobut maybe it convinced you about forgetting about that webcam for now. :)12:15
Oskuromdz: which binary-only driver?12:16
OskuroI didn't even know there was one :D12:16
mdzOskuro: the other webcam driver12:16
Oskurothe -usb one?12:16
mdzthe one which is on the /Kernel page12:16
mdzyours apparently was not12:16
mdzPCWX or something?12:16
Oskurowell, what is in 2.6 doesn't work for me12:16
Oskuroit doesn't create a video device at all12:17
mdzPWC is in 2.6, PWCX was a binary-only blob which gave you more functionality12:17
mdzbut PCWX went away12:17
Oskuromine is qce (quick cam express)12:17
mdzso now we don't need to take a decision on it :-)12:17
Oskurogreat :)12:17
mdzright, so it wasn't the same in the first place12:17
Oskuroare you talking about the philips webcam they talked about in lwn?12:17
Oskurono, I mean the one you mailed me about after I asked you in Oxford.12:18
Oskuromy brother has one12:18
Oskurodoesn't seem to work in 2.612:18
mdzsounds scary12:19
Oskuronot really, as if I care :)12:20
=== jdub cares!
mdzOskuro: oh, qce-source is actually free?12:22
mdzI thought it was non-free12:23
mdzit is GPL12:23
Keybukclearly non-free then <g>12:25
Oskuromdz: of course12:27
mdzOskuro: any idea why it isn't in the kernel?  it seems to have been around for a long time12:28
jdubmdz: so are we pulling pmount/gvm stuff into the main archive for testing?12:28
Oskuromdz: c-qcam appears to load12:29
Oskuroin my computer and it printk's shit about quickcam camera and stuff12:29
mdzjdub: pmount is already there, and yes, gvm should go in as soon as possible so it can be cleaned up12:29
Oskurohaven't looked at the source to see if it's the same thing12:29
mdzwe can always pull it12:29
Oskuromdz: maybe ti was being loaded but the v4l modules werent12:29
Oskurothe camera is 6kms away right now12:30
mdzfabbione: if you do, ping him about changing mine as well :-)12:30
=== lamont grumbles
lamont_69_ source packages in _main_ that Depend on at least one package from ruby1.812:40
lamontmdz: will advise. :-(12:40
lamontKeybuk: are there baglimits on bob2's?12:41
Keybukbaglimits ?12:43
lamontlimit on the number of animals shot12:43
lamontit's a hunting limit...12:43
lamontmay only kill 10 rabbits a day, or such kind of thing..12:44
lamontno more than 20 carcasses in your possession, etc..12:44
Keybukyou have to actually find *one* first12:44
lamontbut what if you find a whole flock of them at once??? :-)12:45
lamont350kbps isn't all that bad a bandwidth.. :-)12:45
=== lamont updates his mirror spec to quit mirroring xfree86/*-dbg packages
dokomdz: any news about the python sync?12:49
tvonIs/was there discussion about replacing init scripts with python based tools?12:49
=== Keybuk cowers in fear
lamonttvon: that'd be a hoary discussion, I expect12:51
=== tvon nods
tvonThat would be special12:52
jduboh man, the old G4 20" imac is still more expensive than the new one12:55
jdubactually, all of them are12:55
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tvonWhere should I fetch the installer from?01:28
Kamiondo you mean the CD images?01:29
Keybukso my CPU doesn't show up in Device Manager ... odd :p01:30
Kamiontvon: it's on http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/Archive01:31
tvonKamion: thank you01:31
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spivglyph: Greetings.01:38
jdubyo glyph 01:39
glyphI feel 3133701:40
jdubseb128: gnome-games-extra-data -> do we really want this in desktop?01:44
=== jdub thinks it's overkill
seb128it was in gnome-games, so I've added it with gnome-games01:45
seb128move it to supported if you prefer01:45
jdublet's leave it in universe :)01:45
seb128I don't really care in fact :)01:45
jdubyeah, it's just more themey images and stuff01:46
seb128yes, not a problem to support01:46
seb128we don't have security problems or crashes in this01:46
lamontmdz: all 69 source packages built just fine with the new ruby1.8...01:49
mdzlamont: thanks for testing it; please make a notation in bugzilla01:52
lamontyeah - will do.  I didn't bother with universe, btw01:53
seb128jdub: for the dicts size, you're just interested by the package size, not the installed size, right ?01:55
jdubthough less worried about install size ;)01:55
seb128I've made the full list for debian aspell-*01:56
seb128I'll send the mail in a minute01:56
jdubi don't want to run sid/garnome on my desktop any more ;)01:57
jdubanyone installed on a machine with sata yet?01:58
jdubserial ata01:58
mdzI installed woody on one01:59
mdzso I'm not particularly worried01:59
Kamionhdparm in warty won't work on sata01:59
=== jdub uses libata drivers anyway
Kamionwe *probably* have enough bits in d-i to do it but I'm not convinced. please test02:00
Kamionyes, hdparm looks at the major numbers, I don't think libata helps you there02:00
lamontsounds like sarge wants to know, eh?02:00
jdubi use raid1, so i can just take one disk out :-)02:00
jduband abuse the other :-)02:00
Kamionlamont: sarge is in a somewhat better position because it didn't freeze d-i in the middle of doing sata support ;)02:00
lamontah, ok.  sigh.02:01
whiprushbah, anyone else seeing X crashes? Mine crashes overnight, but never while in use. :-/02:01
Kamionanyway, I think we've synced everything relevant, but testing will help02:01
jdubwhiprush: got xscreensaver running?02:01
lamontthat reminds me, I need to try and get bidwatcher sync'ed to universe after I upload it to debian..02:01
whiprushjdub: nope.02:01
jdubthen i can't make spurious uninformed claims about xscreensaver being the obvious culprit02:02
whiprushcontinue flaming jwz though, don't let me get in the way.02:02
jdubwell, strictly speaking, i could02:02
jdubbut it would be pretty disingenuous02:02
jduband sourced only from a mild disgust of jwz02:02
jdubhe flamed someone for suggesting that fedora was unsupported yesterday02:03
mdzjwz is involved with fedora?02:03
jduband threatened to shift to osx02:04
Kamionwould anyone object to me making /install/2.6/{vmlinuz,initrd.gz,etc.} on the i386 CD be /install/{vmlinuz,initrd.gz,etc.} instead? it would help me do the fixes to debian-installer/amd64 somewhat more easily02:04
jdubno, he just runs it because the rh9 installer crashes his machine or something02:04
Kamionand it would match powerpc02:04
mdzKamion: absolutely not; I'd prefer it02:04
Kamionthought so, I'll take a look tomorrow02:04
mdzI was going to ask you about it but didn't want to distract you since my interest was purely cosmetic02:04
KamionI think I meant to do it ages ago but I hadn't found a non-cosmetic reason yet02:05
whiprushbut hey, since I'm never around when you guys are awake .... if someone could make an "upstream" tag or something for bugzilla, or perhaps mention something about it in the wiki that would be swell.02:05
Kamionbut it will reduce confusion a lot for amd64 since (a) amd64 only has 2.6 even in Debian d-i, (b) the build systems for i386 and amd64 are shared02:05
whiprushI'm on my third "upstream" bug and feel like a jackass about them. 02:05
jdub"Unrelated to this, Jdub rang me today, like actually rang me, on the phone. That's definitely the way to make someone feel like a valued part of the community. It's almost better then an email from Nat Friedman... almost."02:07
whiprush"...almost" :p02:07
jdubNO RESPECT!02:07
=== Kamion goes to bed in an attempt to get off EDT or whatever the hell timezone I've got onto
=== bdale [~bdale@] has joined #ubuntu
SleepBoBtimezones suck02:12
SleepBoBespecially 'beer' timezones02:13
lamontjdub: someone's blog, I imagine?02:14
bdalelive in your own private timezone... it's less confusing02:14
=== lamont ^5s bdale
jdublamont: mmm, gnome dude from perth02:15
=== bdale mumbles something about attending .au technical conferences during an election season...
jdubbdale: you're not getting interrogated about the local politics, are you?02:16
bdalejdub: nah, I'm hiding in the back of the room with my 'puter listening today...02:17
SleepBoBhaha our elections here have degenerated into making up stuff about the other party and ridiculous personal attacks02:18
lamontSleepBoB: and that's new how?02:20
=== bdale was re-reading early Debian email history last night in prep for his talk tomorrow, and was *astounded* at how many fundamental decisions all got made in a 3-5 week period in Jan/Feb 96 ...
SleepBoBlamont: perhaps I'm looking at history through rose tinted glasses :/02:21
lamontSleepBoB: maybe your local types have been studying US election practices02:24
SleepBoBthat's what I'm suspecting02:25
Gmanjdub, dude, i'd value you a call from you more than a mail from nat any day of the week02:30
mdzdoko: regarding python, so far I am not convinced, but I am listening if there is a compelling case for it02:38
SleepBoBhe is my friend :/02:40
SleepBoBoops. I am teh suck.02:40
seb128mdz; jdub : what about gaim ? We want to stay with 0.79 ?02:43
mdzseb128: we'll need to do something about the security issue; I think we'll probably sync the new version02:43
seb128"We closed over TWO HUNDRED bugs since 0.80."02:44
seb128according to the NEWS file02:44
mdzwhat they don't say in NEWS is "We created over ONE THOUSAND new bugs" :-)02:44
jdubi think it makes sense to sync gaim as a member of the gnome/desktop set02:44
seb128I'll do an upload with the e-d-s plugin on tomorrow so02:44
seb128if that's ok02:44
mdzseb128: an upload of gaim?02:45
mdzseb128: based on 1:0.82.1-1?02:45
seb128if you are ok to do a sync from debian ...02:45
mdzwell, we can sync, and then you can upload an ubuntu rev, or you can just upload the new upstream02:45
seb128sync will not work, they build with gnutls1102:46
mdzah, ok02:46
mdzthen yes, go ahead02:46
seb128ok, thanks02:46
mdzplease give it some extra testing if you would02:46
mdzseb128: I'll reassign the security bug to you, then, and you can close it when you upload02:47
seb128ok, fine02:47
seb128time to sleep, see you later guys02:52
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lifelessarhh, welcome to the house of fun03:26
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danielsjdub: pong04:32
danielsfucking dsl company is hateful. this is now the eighth time they have deleted my order.04:32
jdubdaniels: is jriddell a sane kde dude?04:33
SleepBoByeah they have your name on the blacklist04:33
danielsjdub: yeah04:33
danielsjdub: he seems to be, at any rate04:33
jdubdaniels: so who do you reckon i should start talking to about kubuntu?04:33
jdubknow if any of the sounders have tried it?04:34
danielsjdub: i don't know if mornfall or ervin have tried it; they seemed quite busy. have they emailed you?04:34
danielsjdub: i think jriddell could quite well be a sane kubuntu seed04:35
jdubno subs either04:35
jdubshould i invite jriddell?04:35
danielsjdub: blardy hell. :\04:35
danielsjdub: yeah, i think that could be good04:36
jdubdaniels: did you speak to him at akademy?04:38
jdub(from what he knows, it sounds like it)04:39
=== jdub mails jonathan
bdaledaniels: dude04:45
danielsbdale: dude!04:48
danielsjdub: actually, no; go figure04:48
bdaledaniels: I'm in a conf room at the Duxton through Fri morning...04:49
jdubdaniels: intriguing04:49
jdubdaniels: so did akademy keep the kde flame burning inside your heart?04:50
=== bdale chuckles
danielsbdale: oh, rad. sadly, i'm a bit over an hour out of town - want to catch up for lunch or dinner one day?04:53
danielsor two days, or whatever ;) i'm coming in for friday night anyway04:53
danielsjdub: the pilot light was out, and it didn't even provide a bit of gas04:53
bdaledaniels: I'm supposed to be hosting a bof over lunch today, not sure what's on this evening or lunch tomorrow, conf dinner tomorrow night, then I'm gone by mid-morning on Fri04:54
danielsjdub: the discussion about the control centre was classic. they were talking about doing macrousability on it, and i put my hand up and pointed out that even when I was hacking on it, it still took me 5 minutes to find what I want, and got a bit of scorn for that04:54
danielsbdale: ahr04:54
=== Riff wanders in
Riffooh, is it pirate day?04:56
danielsRiff: not quite yet, sadly04:56
SleepBoBit's always pirate day04:57
cef_work19th of sept04:57
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jdubyo AndyFitz 05:09
AndyFitzheya jdub05:10
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AndyFitzwhere on the wiki can I grab CD705:15
AndyFitzI've gotten myself on the QUT network with no port restrictions05:15
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AndyFitzhttp://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/daily/current/ ?05:15
AndyFitzall good downloading now 05:16
AndyFitzhttp://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/warty.png , http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/e7.png  think its possible to include etiquette in warty ?05:22
jdubi was hoping etiquette was the theme we were getting :)05:23
AndyFitzI think im being nudged into another style  here.  canonical needs trademark rights of the look and feel05:24
AndyFitzsome of etiquette is already public domain05:24
jdubyou mean copyright, not trademark, right?05:25
AndyFitzid love to have it included.  or move closer to the style.  i think we've got to define boundaries05:25
AndyFitzno trademark05:25
jduband by 'public domain' you mean licensed under the gpl?05:25
AndyFitzits dual under public domain and gpl05:26
=== jdub takes it to message :)
AndyFitzmy understanding is the trademarked artwork has to be kept canonical's property  to make sure ubuntu owns its look and feel and other distros dont try and claim the same branding trademark that the icons adhere to05:28
jdub(on msg please)05:28
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Gman_those look like nice icons AndyFitz06:02
AndyFitzThanks Gman. Trying to sort out if we can includea modified version of the later in warty at the moment06:05
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=== tvon_ is now known as tvon|x31
glyphis there any way to set up ubuntu over an existing sid installation?06:12
whiprushglyph: I've used the ubuntu apt sources over an existing sid install with no problems. I would assume however, that the devs don't care for bug reports that end up as a result however06:14
glyphwhiprush: Yeah, I could see that06:14
glyphI want to try it from scratch, but I don't have that much time and all my boxes already have painstakingly set up, working debian configurations on them ;)06:15
tvon|x31Is ubuntu meant to be used along with sarge repositories at this point?06:15
whiprushglyph: I've "upgraded" to ubuntu packages from existing sid and experimental packages on a box before.06:17
whiprushI did that to see if they just worked though.06:17
jdubtvon|x31: no06:26
jdubtvon|x31: use main and universe from our repos06:26
tvon|x31jdub: aight, thanks06:27
jdub(only if you *have* to use universe ;)06:27
mdztvon|x31: you cannot use both Debian and Ubuntu repositories in sources.list06:27
=== tvon|x31 nods
mdzwe should document that somewhere06:28
tvon|x31I dont think 'universe' is mentioned on the Archive page06:28
jdubyeah, someone else add stuff to the faq :)06:28
tvon|x31now to track down some mono bits.....06:29
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jdubhi kagou 06:31
kagoui just received location for iso :)06:31
lifelessmdz: oh? oops.06:32
kagoudo i test http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/sounder-test/7/ or http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/daily/current/ ?06:32
tvon|x31Is anyone running on a lappy?06:32
jdubtvon|x31: pretty much all of us, many on ibms too :)06:33
tvon|x31ah :)06:33
jdubkagou: yesterday's daily worked well - may as well try it :)06:33
tvon|x31My wifi and battery applets are bunk for some reason06:33
kagouok jdub06:33
tvon|x31though a few hours ago I had mandrake cooker on here with a busted wifi applet as well, but batter worked06:33
jdubtvon|x31: do you have the battery module loaded?06:33
tvon|x31jdub: yup06:34
jdubhrm, and some acpi things?06:34
=== jdub has a ppc laptop, so isn't fully up on crazy x86 action ;)
tvon|x31 /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0 has all the goodies06:34
tvon|x31acpi battery thermal fan etc...all the goodies are loaded06:34
tvon|x31hrm...oh yes, I think it needs acpid06:35
=== tvon|x31 shrugs
jdubbong! :)06:36
tvon|x31All the data is in /proc afaik, I dont know why it needs a daemon :-D06:36
tvon|x31On to wireless applet...06:36
mdzif you install from scratch, you get acpid by default06:36
mdzand a lot of other niceties06:36
lifelessthe daemon does events IIRC.06:36
tvon|x31hmm, I did install from scratch, though a pretty minimal system06:36
mdzyou have only two options: desktop and server, and I don't think the server option is mentioned anywhere at the moment06:37
tvon|x31I installed from the latest (as of earlier today) nightly iso.  Using the netboot images06:37
tvon|x31heh, I saw no desktop/server options06:37
mdzyou get a desktop install by default06:38
mdzand that includes acpid06:38
mdzunless you debootstrapped it by hand or something06:38
tvon|x31Nope, PXE boot with netboot images/initrd06:38
tvon|x31It hit an error with my /home partition which kicked me to the installtion menu, its possible I skipped something06:38
=== jdub goes for lunch
mdzdid you skip the package selection step in base-config (post-reboot)?06:39
mdzthat's where aptitude runs and installs a few hundred packages06:39
tvon|x31ah, it hit some error, I dont recall what so it was never completed06:40
tvon|x31That would explain it :)06:40
mdzplease report the error to the mailing list06:40
mdza copy of /var/log/base-config.log should suffice06:40
mdzalong with a description of what happened06:40
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fabbionemorning guys07:10
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Mithrandirlamont: now I am07:52
lamontMithrandir: figured it out...07:52
lamontMithrandir: gcc-3.[34]  now installed on amd6407:55
jdublamont: btw,07:57
Mithrandirlamont: yay. :)07:57
Mithrandirlamont: how's grub, then?07:57
=== lamont gives grub back
lamontjdub: heh08:06
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lamontonly 271 files to go for my micro-mirror of debian to finish08:07
=== lamont looks at the clock, realizes that he really needs to go to bed soon...
lamontMithrandir: DOH.  guess I should make sure the chroot is current,eh?08:08
Mithrandirlamont: that would be nice, yes. :)08:09
lamontgcc-3.3_1:3.3.4-5ubuntu2 still "can't create executables"08:17
Mithrandirfor grub?08:23
lamontturns out the chroot _is_ current08:23
Mithrandircould you install that and grub's build-deps in the amd64 chroot on yellow?08:23
Mithrandirand downgrade ia32-libs to what's in warty, pretty please. :)08:24
lamontwant the chroot to be apt-get upgraded too?08:25
fabbionemdz: i am afraid we will have to ask one or two more questions if hw autodetection tools aren't available08:28
lamontMithrandir: I stand somewhat corrected...08:28
fabbioneapparently the defaults aren't good enough for everybody08:28
mdzfabbione: which tools?08:28
lamontSep  1 02:30:10 buildd-mail: gcc-3.3 must be manually dinstall-ed -- delayed08:28
lamontelmo around?08:29
fabbionemdz: xresprobe, discover and so on08:29
fabbione(still talking about X)08:29
mdzfabbione: xresprobe is called in postinst, is it not?  you could depend on it08:29
fabbionemdz: no no that's not the problem08:29
fabbioneon fresh install we are ok08:29
fabbioneif installing desktop08:29
fabbionebut on expert mode we need to ask more questions08:29
fabbionespecially if the user does not want to install the autodetection tools08:30
mdzit is fine with me if we require the autodetection tools via a dependency08:30
Mithrandirlamont: grub seems to be compiling happily now.08:30
lamontMithrandir: grub is d-w the new gcc, which only helps a little since I need to freshen the chroot before things will work08:30
lamontMithrandir: yeah - gcc-3.3 needs some loving08:30
lamontfrom elmo08:30
Mithrandirthough, I need to work around:08:31
Mithrandir        dpkg-shlibdeps -Tdebian/grub.substvars debian/grub/sbin/grub debian/grub/bin/mbchk08:31
Mithrandirdebian/grub/sbin/grub: error while loading shared libraries: libfakeroot.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory08:31
mdzI wouldn't expect elmo for a few hours08:31
Mithrandirdpkg-shlibdeps: failure: ldd on `debian/grub/sbin/grub' gave error exit status 108:31
Mithrandirdh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 25608:31
fabbionemdz: hmmm08:31
MithrandirI'm pondering shipping libfakeroot.so.0 (ia32-bits) in ia32-libs08:31
fabbionei need to check on the different tools, if they can be used before their postinst run08:31
fabbionemdz: otherwise if the install happens in one shot it's not gonna work08:32
fabbioneno actually...08:32
fabbioneit won't08:32
fabbionebecause discover and mdetect are used in preconfig08:32
=== fabbione sighs
Mithrandiryay, yay, yay.08:35
Mithrandirlamont: compiling it statically (which is really the only sane way to do it, unless one wants grub to depend on ia32-libs) works.08:35
lamontMithrandir: cool08:36
Mithrandirhttp://debian-amd64.alioth.debian.org/pure64/patches/grub_0.95+cvs20040624- has the patch from alioth, I'm going to hack it so it builds nicely on both amd64 and i386 then upload.08:37
Mithrandirbut now, breakfast.08:37
lamontMithrandir: cool08:38
dokoMithrandir: first biarch test succeeded :)08:41
lamontmdz: should you care, bidwatcher in warty/universe is broken (grave), fix is in debian/incoming..  sync would be nice, but then, it is universe...08:46
=== lamont will probably send email in the morning when he can actually construct sentences
mdzwhen everything in main works right, we can have some universe dessert08:46
lamontyeah - exactly08:47
lamonthence the 'should you care'.08:47
=== lamont is cleaning up a couple of stale debian uploads this particular minute, then he's going to fall asleep and upload after (1) sleep, and (2) review.
lamontmdz: what (if anything) is still standing in the way of ruby?08:49
mdzlamont: if it doesn't break any builds, I think that's it.  please re-propose the sync08:50
mdznoting the version that you tested08:50
lamontwe'll do08:51
jdubboth lamonts08:52
jdubi'm glad we had those cloning systems installed08:52
pittimdz: this silly postgresql log permission thingy... will you accept another sid sync (with some other small changes) or shall I prepare an -ubuntu1 package?08:53
mdzpitti: if the other changes are small and safe, we can sync08:53
lamontspeaking of postgresql... If I have a file consisting of columnar data and want to stuff it into postgress, can I tell it to take fields from columns 41-80 of the file, or do I have to write something to process the data into sql insert commands?08:54
=== lamont tries to decide if that sentence even parses, failes
=== mdz waits for jdub to respond to the vim/emacs menu comment on sounder@
lamontjdub: you likely to be around in about 7-8 hours?08:55
jdublamont: hrm08:55
jdublamont: probably 8)08:55
jdubmdz: hrm08:55
pittilamont: AFAIK, postgresql's \copy command cannot process specific character columns08:55
lamontjdub: gonna pick your brain on USB pilot stuff then...  you've been warned. :-)08:55
pittilamont: you can only give a column separator (space, comma, tab, whatever)08:55
mdzyou could cut/awk out the columns08:55
lamontpitti: that's still a help, just requires me to do a simple convert.08:56
pittilamont: yes, cut does that quite nicely, should be easy08:56
lamontok.  something else to play with when I have spare time again in a decade.08:56
lamontmeanwhile, to bed.08:56
lamontbefore 1AM, even. :)08:57
=== AndyFitz [~Andy@c210-49-88-50.rochd3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
pittilamont: good night! '08:57
=== ploum [~ploum@231-238.243.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
pittilamont: I'm taking breakfast now :-) I love time zones...08:57
lamontpitti: thank your local railroad, then08:57
lamontfabbione: btw, I had to bump up the hsync/vsync to get my monitor happy08:59
lamontof course, I should really figure out what the right max-values are for this monitor, since the video card can far exceed them.09:00
lamontI also chose 16-bit with bigger resolution, rather than 24-bit and smaller.09:00
lamontbut now I choose sleep.  back in about 7-8 hours09:00
fabbionelamont: please can you give me a bit more details?09:02
fabbionei can't guess what your card/monitor can do...09:03
fabbionethis is where our X is growing :-)09:06
mdzit would be neat to have photos of everyone at their home office09:08
jdubi have a digital camera!09:09
mdzand arrange them in a virtual cubicle village :-)09:09
eddbut not jdub09:09
AndyFitzas do i!09:09
eddi am still scarred from that toilet picture09:09
jdubthat is my office!09:09
eddi was afraid of that09:09
fabbionemdz: as soon as we will have people.n-n-y.com :-)09:10
fabbionewe can create a people.n-n-y.com/shared09:11
fabbioneor something09:11
fabbionewith a pic gallery from all of us09:11
fabbionethat would really give a human feeling behind an email address09:11
mdzI would like to do something along those lines09:11
jduband hackergotchis09:11
mdzyou and your hackergotchis09:12
fabbionecan we put pics when we are mooning?? please! please! please..09:12
=== fabbione grins
jdubfabbione: your hackergotchi can be a bum :)09:12
lifelessas long as its of your face09:12
fabbionelifeless: the 2 might be very similar :)09:12
jduba bum with a fist coming out of it, like the australian flag09:13
AndyFitz :P09:13
mdzthat is not my symbolic interpretation of the australian flag09:15
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
danielsyou don't want to see a picture of my room right now09:22
=== fabbione needs more coffee
fabbioneso everybody agress that pc105 is a good default for layout != us?09:24
fabbioneagrees even09:24
danielsit seems to be pretty much standard09:25
daniels(when i did 4.3, it was *the* biggest faq)09:33
danielsi was tempted to have a 'use pc105' reply shortcut09:33
fabbionedaniels: well.. i am old and tired.. i can't remember everything :)09:33
fabbione    if [ "$RET" != "us" ] ; then09:34
fabbione      DEFAULT=pc10509:34
fabbione    else09:34
fabbione      DEFAULT=pc10409:34
fabbione    fi09:34
danielsif [ "$RET" == "us" ] ; then09:34
daniels  DEFAULT=pc10409:34
daniels  DEFAULT=pc10509:34
danielsmake more sense?09:34
fabbioneno. there is a bashism09:35
danielswell, s/==/=/09:35
fabbionetsk :P09:35
fabbione    if [ "$RET" = "us" ] ; then09:36
fabbione      DEFAULT=pc10409:36
fabbione    else09:36
fabbione      DEFAULT=pc10509:36
fabbione    fi09:36
fabbionehappy now kid? ;)09:36
ploumyes, indeed. pc105 is the default in most european countries09:38
SleepBoBmodel M is the new standard09:39
danielsrsync ate my bandwidth09:40
=== Riddell [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu
ploumwow, it seems to be a subtle Debian logo :-)09:56
ploumBut I can't imagine this as a wallpaper : too dark and to "fill" with one color09:56
fabbionedaniels: what is the status of xresprobe?09:56
fabbioneregarding freq calculation?09:56
ploumAndyFitz, I imagine the same logo but with a african paysage background09:57
AndyFitzneeds to be boring so the icons can shine ..  ;)09:57
AndyFitzokay ill gimp it up with some texturing09:57
ploumI also imagine the baground with lines09:57
=== ploum doesn't find correct words in english
ploumbut like you did for Fraze Island and the see picture09:58
AndyFitzhehe. gnome guys love the scanlines.09:58
ploumThat's would be perfect09:58
=== ploum loves scanlines (yes it's the word)
AndyFitzokay well there you go10:02
AndyFitzupdated with scanlines10:02
=== AndyFitz gets back to work
ploumAndyFitz, far better :-)10:03
ploumNow, I just imagine a picture of the african bush translucent in the background. With only a few bush in the bottom, a tree but a lot of sky :-)10:04
ploumthat's only MHO10:04
=== ploum brainstorms itself
MithrandirAndyFitz: it doesn't look good on LCDs now.10:05
=== AndyFitz thinks scanlines are like pinstripe suits ... cheap
ploumMithrandir, I've a LCD screen and it looks perfect for me10:06
AndyFitzupdated again for Mithrandir10:06
MithrandirAndyFitz: "The process cannot acces the file because it is being used by another process."10:07
Mithrandirploum: if you examine it closely, even?10:07
MithrandirAndyFitz: nicer10:07
ploumMithrandir, yes. 10:08
ploumMithrandir, do you have the problem with this : http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/teams/art.gnome.org/backgrounds/GNOME-FraserIsland.png ?10:08
ploumwe don't seem to have the same tast ;) (I don't like the new one)10:09
ploumHow can an artist like AndyFitz make happy two people with so different taste ? ;-)10:09
Mithrandirhe can't. :)10:09
Mithrandirthe gnome one looks ok here (apart from the stripes, which looks silly. ;)10:10
danielsfabbione: working on it this week10:11
danielsRiddell: welcome :)10:11
fabbionedaniels: do you have idea on how to fix #840?10:17
fabbionei am a bit lost on how to pass the info to the mouse module10:18
=== seb128 [~seb128@ABoulogne-110-1-2-201.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
jduboh man10:19
=== jdub double-drools on contact-lookup-applet
seb128hey jdub 10:20
jdubyo seb128 10:20
MithrandirI think g-v-m should complain if you pop in something that's not recognized/not mountable.10:20
seb128hello everybody else too :)10:20
fabbionehey seb10:20
seb128hello fabbione 10:21
seb128Mithrandir: it displays some messages in the console if you run it from a gnome-terminal10:21
Mithrandirseb128: well, I'm just a stupid user who doesn't "run" it, it just starts automatically, and if I pop in one of my thumbdrives, it works, if I pop the other one in, it doesn't.10:22
=== AndyFitz [~Andy@c210-49-88-50.rochd3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu []
=== AndyFitz [~Andy@c210-49-88-50.rochd3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== fabbione tests new X packages...
danielsfabbione: um, afaict it's all to do with the kernel driver10:49
danielsfabbione: you can write out a module options file (/etc/modutils.d/mouse or something) that has 'options mousedev xres=foo yres=bar'10:49
danielsyou'd probably want to do that in xserver-xfree86 postinst, i assume10:50
danielswhich is a horrific hack, but there you go10:50
fabbionedaniels: that's exactly what i would love to avoid10:53
fabbionealso because the module is probed much earlier10:53
fabbionethat means that X has to unload the module and reload it10:53
fabbionebad bad bad10:53
danielswell, we don't know the resolution until that late, no?10:54
danielswe could enforce a reboot :P10:54
fabbioneoh yeah10:54
=== Mithrandir whacks daniels randomly.
danielsMithrandir: ...10:55
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneik5pvx: you around?11:11
fabbioneok guys...11:15
fabbionedo we have any major issue pending from X ubuntu11?11:15
fabbione(or lower?)11:16
fabbionei only have the pc104/pc105 11:16
fabbioneand the PCI pre-seed for dpkg-reconfigure11:16
ik5pvxfabbione, more or less 11:17
fabbioneik5pvx: ok.. can you use the step 3 config and fix it to see what needs to be changed?11:17
fabbioneit looks to me only a Horiz/Vert freq problem that doesn't hook up properly on your machine11:18
fabbionein that case i can try to relax the defaults11:18
ik5pvxlet me see11:19
rburtonthis sticky super thing is driving me mad11:19
rburtonX people say its an app problem, i file a metacity bug and hp claims metacity is okay, its an X thing11:20
ik5pvxI have 2 errors at the end, no matching modes and "screens found but none have usable config:11:20
pittiKamion: I just prepared an updated base-config. Did you deliberately not call debconf-updatepo? Because I did it now and it changed quite much11:21
fabbioneik5pvx: yes i read the log.11:22
fabbioneik5pvx: screen not found is a consequence of the no matching mode11:22
ik5pvxplaying with config now11:23
ik5pvxif I replace vesa with ati (and nothing else changed) it starts11:24
ik5pvxlooks more like a problem detecting the chipset....11:24
ik5pvxI think I saw someone's message about ATI ?11:25
ik5pvxyes there's a message from daniels... maybe it's the same issue ?11:26
fabbioneik5pvx: i would like you to not change the driver11:26
fabbionejust try to make vesa working11:26
ik5pvxok, let me try11:26
fabbioneif possible at all11:26
ik5pvxuhm... can vesa do 24 bits ?11:30
fabbionetry a lower one11:33
ik5pvxno effect11:33
ik5pvxstill unable to find a proper mode11:33
fabbionedid you try to change the Horiz/vert sync?11:33
ik5pvxI"m trying with crazy horiz/vert values11:33
ik5pvxno effect either11:33
fabbioneand if you just remove them?11:34
fabbioneor try to lower the resolution to 800x60011:34
ik5pvxI try11:34
ik5pvxwith no sync lines, it doesn't start 11:35
ik5pvxno sync lines, and 800x600 => no joy11:36
ik5pvxno sync lines, and 640x480 => no joy11:36
fabbioneadd the sync lines11:36
ik5pvxoriginal sync lines, and 640x480 => still no joy11:37
fabbionedaniels: i think we need to depend on discover111:37
fabbioneor discover11:37
ik5pvxcrazy sync lines and 640x480 => no joy11:38
danielsfabbione: why depend? doesn't it just error out if it can't get it?11:38
ik5pvxwhy doesn't it detect the ati chipset, anyway ?11:38
danielsik5pvx: i think a new version of discover1-data should be in the archive11:38
fabbionedaniels: put down the pipe kid...11:38
fabbionedaniels: the problem is NOT discover11:38
fabbionethe problem is that not all cards like vesa driver as default11:39
=== ik5pvx needs to go back to ingress-filtering now
danielsik5pvx: 11:39
daniels02:24 < ik5pvx> if I replace vesa with ati (and nothing else changed) it starts11:39
daniels02:24 < ik5pvx> looks more like a problem detecting the chipset....11:39
daniels02:25 < ik5pvx> I think I saw someone's message about ATI ?11:39
daniels02:26 < ik5pvx> yes there's a message from daniels... maybe it's the same issue ?11:39
danielsfabbione: that's one problem, and it should be fixed. i think it is fixed.11:39
danielsanyway, i'm still catching up on scrollback, so bear with me.11:39
danielsdo we have a copy of the full log?11:40
fabbionedaniels: no it's not the same issue11:45
fabbionei had that laptop at home11:45
fabbionediscover1 works fine there11:45
fabbionethe issue is if discover1 is not there11:45
fabbioneand one installs xserver11:45
fabbionedefault = vesa = buum11:45
fabbionepossible solution:11:45
fabbionewe depend on discover111:45
fabbioneand if there is no match we have to ask for the driver11:45
fabbionedaniels: does it sound reasonable to you?11:45
fabbionedaniels: sounder mailing list11:45
fabbionePierfrancesco Caci11:45
Kamionpitti: I probably forgot, it's called on build anyway11:45
Kamionpitti: I'm not surprised it changes lots11:46
pittiKamion: okay. The changes are only line numbers and three added (untranslated) templates11:46
pittiKamion: I translated the German templates, while I was at it11:46
pittiKamion: Just asking, I'm a bit nervous to change such a central package :-)11:47
Kamionthat sounds fine11:48
KamionGerman> pitti++11:48
KamionI was going to do the German translation at some point when I got round to it, but my German's undoubtedly less good than yours :)11:49
danielsfabbione: why not just check if discover exists, and if it doesn't, ask for the driver?11:53
pittiKamion: I think this is excusable :-) If you change other templates, just ask me, I will translate them.11:55
pittiKamion: Hopefully this stuff will get a lot easier with Rosetta11:55
fabbionedaniels: to try to avoid one question11:56
danielsfabbione: huh?11:56
Kamionpitti: *nod*11:57
danielsfabbione: if ! which discover; then db_input xserver-xfree86/config/driver; fi11:57
=== fabbione larts daniels
fabbionedaniels: ok. let me repeat the situation again11:59
fabbioneso perhaps you can have it more clear11:59
danielsi suspect there's something i'm missing11:59
fabbioneGOAL: no question to be asked configuring X, or the minimum11:59
fabbione1) not all cards work with the DEFAULT=vesa if discover either is not installed or cannot detect the card12:00
danielsvesa's a good default, but a shit choice to use12:00
fabbionedaniels: as above.. it doesn't work for all card.12:00
fabbione(see all the Pierfrancesco Caci mails on sounders and irc logs from today)12:00
fabbioneso possible solution:12:00
fabbione1) make X depends on discover112:01
danielsas i said. it's a good default (widest coverage), but a shit choice (it really sucks)12:01
fabbione2) if discover1 doesn't get crap we are forced to ask12:01
fabbionein this way the possibility to avoid the question are higher12:01
danielsi understand, but the thing is, /usr/bin/XFree86 doesn't require discover to be present to operate12:02
daniels/usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86, even12:02
danielspeople might want to purge it after12:02
fabbionei know that.12:02
danielsthat's why i think a suggests (hell, recommends) is definitely the right thing12:02
fabbioneread still above:12:02
danielsif people are upgrading, they should have a configuration already, no?12:02
danielsunless they're upgrading from, what, slink?12:02
danielsif they're installing, they get discover112:02
fabbione<mdz> fine by me if they have to move to a depency (or similar wording)12:03
Kamionpotato was XFree86 3 era IIRC12:03
danielsah, tater12:03
Kamionbut I doubt we support upgrades from potato not via woody anyway12:03
danielsfabbione: well, you're the X maintainer, and mdz's the CTO; move to a dep if you want, but I just think it's massively overprotective12:03
danielsKamion: right12:03
danielsfabbione: i'm afraid that maybe i don't quite get it - in what situations do we have (!discover && newconfig)?12:06
fabbionea couple of cases12:08
fabbioneexpert installs and base woody -> base warty upgrades and then install X12:08
fabbioneor possible combinantions of the above12:08
fabbioneand no.. i am not going to assume anythind12:08
fabbioneanyway i fixed without Dependency12:09
fabbionewe can just bump it to Reccomends12:09
danielsi honestly don't think we should be cotton-wooling users through those cases; they know what they're doing then anyway12:09
danielsyeah, recommends is cool, and we should just prompt if discover doesn't exist imho12:09
danielsbut forcing discover ... i'm uncomfortable with that12:09
fabbioneagreed kid12:11
fabbioneRecommends: discover1, mdetect, xresprobe, laptop-detect12:12
fabbionediscover is out of the way12:12
danielshow about discover1 | discover?12:12
fabbionei tought about it, but apparently discover is crap12:13
fabbioneand aren't we going to move it to universe anyway?12:13
thomKamion: when is the daily cd build? 6am or so?12:18
Kamion21 8 * * *      /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/cron.daily12:18
thomoh, right12:18
danielsfabbione: i'd love to kick discover to universe, and it's crap, but if people already have it, it works, thanks to the discover_video() in config (maybe postinst, either way)12:19
Kamiontypically takes less than ten minutes12:19
fabbionedaniels: that doesn't matter. i prefer discover1 in general, since at least it is maintained12:20
fabbionediscover2 is dead even upstream apparently12:20
danielshah, doesn't surprise me12:20
danielsi prefer discover1, as i said, but if people already have discover, then we should probably use it and allow it instead of forcing them to switch12:20
danielsyou can't legislate against stupidity ;)12:21
fabbionedaniels: it is only a recommends, i am not going to purge the code that supports discover212:21
rburtonlooks like evolution-webcal needs a rebuild for the new soup12:25
Oskurohmm, what's Ubuntu's choice for cd recording?12:28
OskuroJust n-c-b?12:28
seb128do you know some good GNOME cd recording tools ?12:28
Oskurodoes that cover everything? Isn't there anything similar to k3b?12:28
Oskuroeroaster isn't "good", but it's probably the best thing out there. It's not near k3b at all though.12:29
Oskurostill waiting for libburn...12:29
seb128rburton: yes, basically jdub is waiting on new evolution, and I was hopping to get Kitame's packages soon to spare some work :p12:29
thomman, current metacity is doing some whacky shit12:29
KamionOskuro: n-c-b?12:29
OskuroKamion: nautilus-cd-burner12:30
fabbionexfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu12) warty; urgency=low12:30
fabbione  * Always feed bus_id questions. Usefull when reconfiguring.12:30
fabbione  * Set default keyboard model to pc105 on all layout other than us.12:30
fabbione  * "Recommends" hw detection tools instead of "Suggests:"12:30
fabbione  * Turned the video driver question back on if there is no autodetection.12:30
fabbione    DEFAULT=vesa is not enough.12:30
fabbioneanything more?12:30
OskuroHmm, I'm not sure that's good enough for common tasks like "mp3 -> cda" recordings and all12:30
rburtonfabbione: british keyboards are pc10412:30
seb128Oskuro: we don't have any GNOME soft good for this12:30
Oskurofabbione: s/Usefull/Useful/ ;)12:30
fabbionethom ???12:30
fabbioneOskuro: thanks :-)12:31
Oskuroseb128: I know, I wanted to see if there's a void in Warty for that.12:31
OskuroWe have the same problem in Lliurex12:31
rburtonOskuro: there is another cd burning patch for rhythmbox...12:31
Kamionrburton: uh? every British keyboard I've used is pc10512:32
OskuroI guess many people would expect something like Nero/k3b though. Mum would be quite lost with just rb and nautilus. :|12:32
fabbioneGB is completly fucked up :P12:32
KamionGB is perfectly sane, rburton is mad :-)12:32
fabbionethey drive on the wrong side, they close pubs at 11, they don't use a standard keyboard...12:32
thomrburton: learn to count :-)12:33
rburtonreally? darn. i've not counted :)12:33
fabbioneok i am going to drop debconf priority to low if locale = en_*12:33
rburtoni followed X, it said if I have a <> key then i have 105 other 10412:33
=== rburton changes keyboard layout
fabbioneok... so is it pc105????12:34
fabbionelast call!12:34
Oskuroseb128: fwiw, in Lliurex we're sticking to eroaster for now, even if it sucks a bit.12:34
=== hypatia [~mary@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu
rburtonaha, the extra key is the \ | key12:34
seb128jdub: here ?12:34
=== rburton agrees its 105 now
rburtonthe keyboard preview code in gnome rocks12:35
=== seb128 looks on the sounders mails and cries
seb128"We should optimise for the common case. 90% of the time when I'm 12:36
seb128double-clicking on a folder inside nautilus, I want to open that window 12:36
seb128and close the current one. Is that typical for everyone? "12:36
seb128no this *again*12:36
jdubseb128: yeah12:37
seb128please reply jdub 12:37
jdubyeah, doing so12:37
seb128thanks :)12:37
thomfabbione: yes, it's 105. most everything that isn't US is 105 aiui12:41
danielsrburton: pc104 used to work, but now you just silently use a key :)12:41
Oskuroseb128: hmm, what mailing list is that?12:42
seb128Oskuro: mail from Mark on the sounder list12:43
Oskurois that one public for all sounders? I'm not subscribed, obviously.12:43
jdubOskuro: subscribe!12:43
=== jdub fears a storm of mark mail
seb128Oskuro: that should be in the sounder mail you got12:43
OskuroI thought I had been subbed by jdub automatically. :)12:44
jdubOskuro: the invite gave you directions to subscribe12:44
seb128ah ah12:44
=== Oskuro thinks about kicking jdub, tickles instead.
seb128rejecting the fault on jdub ? :)12:44
Oskurojdub: right, sorry. :)12:44
thomOskuro: dude, you so suck12:45
OskuroI think I stopped reading jdub's mail at12:46
Oskuro  Public website, summary of what we're doing:12:46
Oskuro    http://www.no-name-yet.com/12:46
Oskuromissing the mailing list bit. O:)12:46
Oskurosounder list run by jdub at perkypants.org12:47
OskuroI've been waiting to be accepted for more than 25 secs and I haven't been approved yet!12:47
OskuroWhat The Fuck!12:47
thomit takes longer than that for one IP packet to get to australia, dude12:48
danielsthom: that's enough out of you12:49
jdubgksudo must kill the tty or something12:50
danielsthom: you should go to the gym and polish up on your squash, maybe you have a chance of catching the combined tally of people from the eastern suburbs of melbourne next olympics :P12:50
daniels(you have -> great britain has)12:50
Gman_8 days to sydney!12:54
=== Gman_ polishes up his heckling techniques
jdubdaniels: are you coming up for debsig?12:54
danielsjdub: yeah, probably just for the day though12:55
danielscan't afford to lose any more time away12:55
jdubovernight though?12:55
jdubit'll have to be overnight for full impact ;)12:55
Gman_bring a roll mat12:55
jdubwhat Gman_ said12:55
danielsso probably arrive late afternoon 15th -> leave morning 16th12:55
danielsno couch love?12:56
jdubgman will have the mattress12:56
jdubthe couch is not for sleeping ;)12:56
Gman_do i need to bring a sleeping bag?12:56
danielsman, i was so first in saying i'd come12:56
danielsbloody kiwi blow-ins12:56
Gman_i don't mind kipping on the floor for one night12:56
jdubGman_: we have linen for the mattress, but sometimes a sleeping bag is better12:57
Gman_ok, will bring one then12:57
jdubi am so the sudo master now12:57
danielsGman_: nah, the mattress is yours :)12:57
danielsfrigging hell, this i855fix or whatever stevea needs seems to be very, very obscure12:58
daniels(as in, i spent 10 minutes and can't find it)12:58
Gman_daniels, i'll buy you a beer :)12:58
=== AndyFitz [~Andy@c210-49-88-50.rochd3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
danielsGman_: heh, word12:59
AndyFitzthe stock image used for gnome-fs-client   ( my computer )  is referenced in alot of other icons..01:01
AndyFitzI have notebook laptops, desktop with crt monitors, lcd desktops etc.  id like to know what is the most common setup warty will be installed on.. for end users ( commodity hardware ? new desktop ?  server? laptop ?01:01
Oskurodaniels: dude01:02
OskuroI would nmu dbus, but I'm not sure the bug is in dbus or somewhere else. I guess it is though.01:02
jdubAndyFitz: if you can find something that is roughly monitor-keyboard-mouse only, and doesn't imply a specific type, that'd be great01:02
danielsOskuro: the expat thing?01:04
danielsnmu dbus01:04
danielssend all falmes to me, and i'll studiously ignore them01:04
Oskuroif I compile gnome-vfs with dbus support, it fails due to lack of expat-dev01:04
danielsflames, too01:04
AndyFitzwasnt planning on including a mouse ( too many visual elements ) but theres no way i can hide the difference between crt and lcd01:04
Oskurodoes that mean dbus-dev needs expat-dev in depends? I think so.01:05
danielsOskuro: i think so, yah01:05
jdubAndyFitz: if you show just the front, straight-on...?01:05
elmoI thought we'd disabled firewire ethernet?01:06
AndyFitzstraight on is possible but will look a tad forced. another thing to note is that both monitor types have different support and lcds have a smaller border along the case 01:08
danielselmo: er, yah01:08
Oskurodaniels: will fix then DUDE01:09
Oskurowhy can't you upload, anyway?01:09
OskuroI mean, it'd be better to have a maintainer release in sarge.01:09
danielsno pure debian system01:09
danielsi'm not debootstrapping while the line is still capped to 51201:09
Oskurodaniels: if you gimme a .dsc and .diff I can sponsor.01:10
danielsput it this way: i'm still rsyncing back warty to *update* my warty mirror01:10
danielsOskuro: hmm01:10
danielsi'll do that later tonight, thanks01:10
Oskurok, I'll be around so it doesn't miss dinstall.01:10
danielsrad, ta01:10
Oskuromake it urgency=high dude :)01:11
OskuroI'll mail the bug about this now01:11
danielsyeah, it will be01:11
danielsjesus, gcc takes a long time to come down.01:11
Mithrandirdaniels: I'm sure you'll love the ia32-libs source.  A chummy 138MB.01:12
danielsi just got amd64-libs01:13
danielsi'm really hoping they don't say 'the unlimited plan will kick in next month', beacuse that will, um, totally ruin my day01:14
danielsgiven >4GB is 0.8c/MB right now01:14
=== savs [~savs@jicbioinc1.ext.uea.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu
ik5pvxfabbione, need other tests with X? can I restore good config ?01:35
fabbioneik5pvx: thanks.. just go ahead01:36
AndyFitzjust the  bike article 01:36
Kamiongeez, Morphix doesn't mess about when it comes to mounting lots of filesystems01:40
Kamionmorph@Morphix / $ wc -l /proc/mounts01:40
Kamion20 /proc/mounts01:40
Kamionhalf of which are the same ...01:41
thomdaniels: uh, the DL140 is a server :-)01:45
fabbionehem.. rburton .. defoma explains explicitly that you need to add the paths to the X config file01:47
=== ploum_ [~ploum@123-233.243.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionehmm did they kill the debconf templates?01:52
Kamionhm, d'oh, might be helpful to use daily-built initrds on i38601:57
elmokamion: how do I get the desktop stuff want-to-be-installed, without using base-config?01:59
Kamionaptitude -y install ~tubuntu-desktop?02:00
elmohmm, yeah, that doesn't seem to set them to 'install' when you have an uninstallable.. meh02:01
Kamionoh, run aptitude and select the task in the UI, then02:01
Kamionyou get to ignore broken packages that way02:01
elmothat would require me to be able to run aptitude without running screaming from the room ;-)02:02
elmobut ok02:02
elmookay, getting very bored with the lack of tty tickets02:02
elmo--\ Tasks                                                                                                                                               02:03
elmo  --\ Unrecognized tasks                                                                                                                                02:03
elmo    --- ubuntu-desktop    02:03
elmo"Unrecognized"? 02:03
Kamionsee sounder@02:03
KamionSubject: Bits about tasks or something like that, from me02:03
jdubelmo: it's a breakaway task which we have no diplomatic relations with at this stage02:03
Kamionhm, I wonder why my netcfg changes didn't have the desired effect02:04
elmokamion: no cdrom copying to /var/cache/apt yet?02:05
Kamionboot with anna/choose_modules=archive-copier02:08
elmooh, we're not defaulting to it, or just not yet?02:08
Kamionok, this is scary, debian-cd has like taken on a life of its own and started doing the right thing even though its code said otherwise02:08
Kamionprobably just not yet02:09
fabbionerburton: what is the default defoma path?02:21
rburtonFontPath        "/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType"02:22
rburton        FontPath        "/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/CID"02:22
rburtonis what defoma tells the user to add when it installs02:22
fabbioneonly these 2?02:24
elmodoes aptitude do the whole "install Prio: standard by default" thing?02:29
=== spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu
jdubyo spiv 02:30
Kamionelmo: I hope not02:30
spivGood morning.02:30
jdubhow's mary's lifebook going?02:30
spivShe's *just* finished burning the ubuntu CD :)02:32
fabbionerburton: ok i can add them to the defaults.02:37
fabbionerburton: they will be in ubuntu1202:37
fabbioneMithrandir: i am testing your upload queue :-)02:46
MithrandirI think it works now.02:46
Mithrandirin the beginning, it just ate uploads02:46
fabbionei am still uploading02:46
fabbioneupload done02:46
fabbioneyou can check if it works now :-)02:47
Mithrandirit'll run in 13 minutes02:47
fabbionei expected so :-)02:47
fabbionei am going to grab a bite in the meanwhile02:47
elmoerr, are my computer and wastebasket icons meant to be bits of paper?02:47
Oskuroenope, you probably get that for most other icons02:48
seb128 ps ax | grep setting02:48
seb128(check if gnome-settings-daemon is running)02:48
elmo21727 ?        S      0:01 /usr/lib/control-center/gnome-settings-daemon --oaf-activate-iid=OAFIID:GNOME_SettingsDaemon --oaf-ior-fd=2202:49
seb128which icon theme are you using ?02:49
elmoseb128: a) it's a completely virgin, today's daily ISO install, I haven't configured anything, b) I dunno, how do I find out? :)02:50
spivjdub: Mary's getting "There was a problem installing the selected software"02:50
seb128details -> icons02:50
elmospiv: yeah, evolution-webcal and evolution-exchange are busticated02:51
spivelmo: Is there a workaround?02:51
seb128and are ubuntu-artwork and suede-icons installed ?02:51
elmoseb128: suede02:51
elmoseb128: no suede-icons02:51
elmo+ installed02:51
fabbioneelmo: how did X behaved?02:51
seb128ok, that's the problem02:52
spiv(So that she can finish installing)02:52
seb128ubuntu-artwork used to depends on it and should02:52
elmospiv: drop out of base-config and run 'aptitude -y install ~tubuntu-desktop'02:52
elmoerr, or rather go into aptitude's ui and do it from there by hand, sorry02:52
elmofabbione: fine, no questions, and it's working02:53
spivelmo: Ok, thanks.02:53
elmotho, we still don't have 2nd/3rd mouse button mappings02:53
fabbioneelmo: cool02:53
fabbioneelmo: uh? ok you will explain me in a few minteus.. i need to eeat something02:53
seb128npmccallum: why do you removed the ubuntu-artwork depends on suede-icons02:54
spivHmm, aptitude shows no packages.02:54
elmospiv: go to the task?02:55
elmoand select ubuntu-desktop02:55
spivelmo: Ok, looks like that's working so far.02:57
spivelmo: Although it didn't look like evolution was installed yet when she saw that problem -- it was after installing mdetect & friends.02:57
rburtonseb128: the panel seems to be very eager to remove the Run Application... entry at the smallest change02:58
rburtoni upgraded discover and it disappeared02:58
elmospiv: yeah, after installing mdetect & friends, it tries to instlal ubuntu-desktop and fails because the two evo packages are uninstallable02:58
spivAh, ok.02:58
seb128rburton: yes, I've noticed that too, need to look on it02:58
=== thom beats wwwconfig-common with a pickaxe
Mithrandironly a pickaxe?  You're much too kind03:09
thomthis is just to soften it up for the fusion bomb followup03:09
fabbioneMithrandir: x went ok.. so i guess the queue is working :-)03:11
pittiseb128: is it a know bug/todo item that all icons in GNOME look only like a white sheet of paper?03:13
seb128pitti: read the last IRC screen03:13
seb128ie: you probably miss suede-icons package03:14
fabbioneelmo: what is the problem with the mouse 2nd/3rd button mapping?03:14
pittiseb128: yes, sorry.03:15
seb128np :)03:15
pittifabbione: maybe that there is no 2nd/3rc button on ppc? At least this is _my_ problem03:18
pittifabbione: I mapped them to F11 and the command key on my sid03:19
thompitti: not really an X thing, since  they're set with sysctl03:26
thom(i think, anyway)03:26
pittithom: of course. and I'm glad that this is so, because otherwise I could not use gpm :-)03:26
fabbioneoh ok....03:27
fabbioneuntil it doesn't require another X upload, i am happy :-)03:27
thomfabbione: s/until/as long as/03:28
fabbionethom: thanks :-)03:29
elmothom: hmm, sugarplum is in universe03:29
thomso i can't upload it at all?03:30
elmono, you can, just wondering why there's a bug about it in debzilla03:30
elmoah, it's a clone03:31
lamontfabbione: you're assuming that I remember what I changed???03:36
lamontwhat I currently have is:03:37
lamontSection "Monitor"03:37
lamont        Identifier      "Generic Monitor"03:37
lamont        HorizSync       28-7503:37
lamont        VertRefresh     43-9903:37
lamont        Option          "DPMS"03:37
lamontand then DefaultDepth 16 in Section "Screen"03:37
lamontthat lets me have 1280x1024 on this monitor03:37
thomthe backuppc maintainer is a fucktard03:38
HcEwhat else is new ;)03:39
HcEbackup always stop working the day before you need it03:39
fabbionelamont: ok hold on a sec...03:41
fabbionelamont: can you do the tests in order as i described them to sounder@ ?03:41
lamontfabbione: sure.. gotta go find which mail they're in...03:41
lamont'second call'?03:41
fabbionelamont: yup03:41
fabbioneand if something needs to be changes, please take note of what/why03:42
fabbionechanged even03:42
lamontfabbione: noticed upgrading from -u7 to -u9, which was, of course, broken.  But we knew that03:43
fabbionelamont: there is ubuntu11 out. please use it03:43
=== lamont giggles at 269406
fabbioneotherwise wait ubuntu12 to be built03:43
lamontfabbione: yeah, I have 11 where I can upgrade easily03:43
fabbioneold packages are broken and testing on them is useless03:43
fabbione11 rocks03:43
fabbione12 will 0wn ya ;)03:44
pittielmo: I just read (and replied to) your install report. Are alt and apple swapped on the console? This occurrs on my iBook, don't know about powerbooks03:44
=== fabbione puts a picture of James on his desk as "Hero of the day" for not bitching on X
elmopitti: seems to be, yes03:45
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elmofabbione: it worked - if you want me to bitch, just break it ;-)03:45
fabbioneelmo: no way....03:46
fabbioneanother 14 hours marathon with X and people will start confusing me with Branden03:46
pittielmo: so this occurs both on a German ibook and an english Powerbook -> on all mac notebooks probably03:46
pittielmo: I write a bug report03:46
fabbioneno seriously.. i start to feel insane03:46
elmopitti: cool03:49
fabbionewhat is a good picture gallery/manager/storage/readmymind software?03:53
elmoapparently the good ones are all mono-madness, gthumb is a bit crap, but usable for simple stuff03:53
fabbionei don't even know what mono is03:54
lamontfabbione: of course, I really don't want to restart X...03:54
lamontfabbione: which of the many mails from you to sounder@ has the test sequence?03:55
fabbionelamont: the first one?03:55
lamontwhich subject03:55
=== Kamion uses a personal XSLT hack for gallery stuff
fabbione    252 Aug 31 To: Sounder!                   (5550) . Second call for X testers.03:56
lamontfound it03:56
elmofabbione: mono, the .NET on linux stuff03:56
fabbionelamont: you will have to restart X. sorry03:56
fabbioneelmo: i know.. just kidding :-)03:56
lamontduh... :-)03:56
fabbionei hate everything that contains the words: java, javascripts, php, .NET, m$ and so on...03:57
lamontonly 112 packages upgraded...03:57
fabbionelamont: it is to simulate different scenarios..03:57
=== lamont notices that -12 is currently building.. having installed -11, I'm going to stall on -12...
Oskurodaniels: ping04:08
Oskurodaniels: dude have you prepared that?04:08
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
Keybukelmo/lamont: dpkg 1.10.23 isn't *in* Ubuntu -- no idea why something would be dep-waiting on it04:10
Keybukunless lamont did a "needs shlibs magic" hack, and his brain wasn't awake (1.10.22ubuntu2 has that for us)04:11
elmoyeah, I think it's just that04:11
lamontKeybuk: the changelog said 'goswin'04:11
Keybuklamont: changelog of?04:12
Keybukoh wait, is this just Goswin being a Moron?04:12
Keybuk1.10.22ubuntu1 has the amd64 archtable entry for us04:13
Keybukthe only other stuff in wookie was hurd fixes for s-s-d and POSIX test options in the method scripts04:13
Keybukwhich we don't care about, so I didn't stamp over the freeze04:14
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneis there any specific reason why ia32-libs is a native package?04:17
=== AndyFitz [~Andy@c210-49-88-50.rochd3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
tvon_Is there an issue tracker around?04:29
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== tvon_ nods
lamontfabbione: interesting...04:30
lamontI was clearly misreading things...04:30
lamontbut now I get these two pesky pop-up windows, and then a failsafe session:04:30
lamontand 'I'04:30
lamontneedless to say, that's not very infomrative.04:31
lamontah, that would explain it...  ps is my friend04:34
lamontlamont    9451  0.0  5.1 13116 6588 ?        S    08:34   0:00 /usr/bin/zenity --info --text Xsession: run_parts() called, but "/etc/X11/Xsession.d" does not exist or is not a directory. Please report the installed version of the "xfree86-common" package and the complete text of this error message to <debian-x@lists.debian.org>.04:34
lamontI think maybe X shouldn't have NUKED /etc/X11 on purge, without making sure that everything that had crap there was gone first...04:34
=== tvon_ is now known as tvon|x31
=== StoneTable [~stone@] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont reinstalls 22 packages
lamontlooks like the monitor just has to think for a second before it's happy with ultra-high resolutions04:37
rburtonfabbione: earlier i was changing my X to have a pc105 keyboard, i used dpkg-reconfigure but XF86Config-4 wasn't changed.  i deleted the file, re-ran -reconfigure and that time it didn't write the file.04:37
rburtoni had to remove xserver-xfree86 and install it again04:37
fabbionelamont: xserver-xfree86 does not nuck /etc/X1104:38
fabbionerburton: just a sec. you did 2 things wrong04:38
=== lamont begs to differ..
fabbionenuke even04:38
fabbionelamont: i do it on a much more often base than you... it doesn't04:39
fabbioneif you purge ALL x packages.. well 04:39
fabbione1) there was no need to04:39
fabbione2) /etc/X11 might go away04:39
lamontdoh.  moved a bit more than just the config file out of the way...04:39
fabbionerburton: if you change manually XF86Config-4 the dpkg-reconfigure will not touch it anymore. SImply because it detects a user change.04:40
fabbionerburton: removing the file has the same effect.04:40
fabbionerburton: simply because you might not want to have a config file..04:40
fabbionerburton: reinstalling is an option, but not the best one. check /var/lib/xfree86/*.md5sum04:41
fabbioneand remove the relative file or update its contents04:41
fabbionerburton: basically the package respected your manual changes all over04:41
fabbionepitti: the new libgphoto2 package works like a charm04:42
rburtonfabbione: i seeee04:42
fabbionei didn't test mount/pmount yet04:42
fabbionerburton: but i agree it can be improved there...04:44
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionerburton: not that easily...04:45
fabbioneit will be hoary stuff04:45
lamontfabbione: what did I do???  X won't start now04:45
fabbionelamont: /var/log/XFree86.0.log04:45
fabbionecheck at the end the reason04:46
fabbionelamont: and i have no idea what you did...04:46
lamontis old and stale.04:46
lamontfresh boot says 'do you want to see the output', and then gives a nice empty text box when you say yes.04:46
fabbioneit should be updated each time you run X or gdm04:46
lamonthow do I get gdm to run again after it disables itself???04:47
seb128/etc/init.d/gdm restart04:47
fabbionelamont: ok.. let's do it manually04:47
fabbionelamont: let's figure first how you manage to kill your X installation04:47
fabbionelamont: startx04:47
fabbionekill gdm and any kind of login manager04:47
fabbionethey only make things more complicated04:47
lamontunable to open /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config04:48
fabbioneok.. where is your Xwrapper.config file?04:48
lamontjust a minute while I back up and undo some crap.04:49
fabbionelamont: ok. i don't understand what you did..04:49
fabbionede-installing xserver-xfree86 does not do this mess04:50
lamontfabbione: no, that was my doing... :-(04:50
lamontFatal server error: could not opne default font 'fixed'04:51
fabbionelamont: i am afraid you purged too many packages04:53
lamontI wonder if maybe just purging anything gnome/X related and reinstalling might not be the best plan...04:53
fabbionelamont: second04:54
fabbionegimme a second04:54
fabbionelamont: apt-get install x-window-system04:55
fabbioneit should install all the missing packages04:55
fabbioneor that one or the other04:55
fabbionethe latter is less packages04:56
=== Kamion sucks ia32-libs sloooooowly down the pipe
fabbionebut it will do fine04:56
lamontwell, x-window-system doesn't exist...04:56
Kamionsadly my other work is now blocked on this mirror run completing :(04:56
fabbioneKamion: 100MB of native package *shrug*04:56
lamontPackage x-window-system is not available, but is referred to by another package.04:56
lamontwhich is to say, it's probably in universe.04:57
Kamionfabbione: I can see why it's native04:57
lamontand installing -core didn't fix a thing04:57
fabbionelamont: probably it's in universe04:57
Kamion(where would the single upstream source tarball come from otherwise?)04:57
fabbionelamont: are all the other packages installed? it didn't try to install anything?04:57
lamonteverything else is installed04:59
lamontOTOH, note that I did apt-get install --reinstall the lot of them.04:59
fabbionereinstall xfonts too04:59
lamontI could not start your session and so I have started the failsafe xterm session. Windows now have focus only if you have your cursor above them. To get out of this mode type 'exit' in the window in the upper left corner05:02
lamontwhat more does it want, I wonder...05:02
fabbioneis that from gdm?05:03
lamontI think so maybe05:04
fabbioneXsession ?05:04
lamontgdm ran /etc/gdm/Xsesion default which ran zenity to bitch05:04
=== lamont reinstalls the gnome-session manager
lamonthrm... running gnome-session from within the failsafe terminal session is, um, interestring05:09
=== lamont__ [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
lamontbitches about complex XKB fconfigurations05:09
lamontrandom rambling, I expect...05:10
Keybukxkb is evil05:11
Keybukthough I'm happy I now have a compose:rctrl/"Right Ctrl is Compose" option05:11
lamont /etc/gdm/Xsession: line 3: [: too many arguments05:11
lamontthat'd be a bug...05:11
fabbionelamont: i am sorry but i have no idea of the mess you are in and i think a clean reinstall of the packages is the best solution05:11
fabbionetho i am sure xserver would never kill /etc/X1105:12
lamontfabbione: agreed.  (Ikilled /etc/X11...05:12
lamontmv /etc/X11 save instead of mv /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 save05:13
fabbioneit can't rain forever05:13
lamonthrmpf.  looks to be bitching because STARTUP="" in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/55gnome-session_gnomerc05:18
=== lamont removes xfree86-common, and 256 others :-(
=== lamont looks around for a "you must be this tall" sign
lamontfabbione: btw, xserver confirms resolution at install time (after debconf run), obviously...05:31
=== lamont notices that gdm does not honor the kill character, grumbles
fabbionelamont 05:34
fabbioneit does if it cannot probe them05:35
=== lamont__ [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
AndyFitzthe new palette is here  http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/palette.png05:36
KeybukAndyFitz: my one comment would be it's a bit odd with some diagonal, and some flat on the ground, and some perspective :-/  otherwise cute :p05:37
AndyFitzthanks keybuk. none are really in a perspective but you'll notice if you tilt your head that the diagonal icons are _really boring_ if left flat on the shelf :)05:39
KeybukAndyFitz: the scanner looks like it's at a different angle to the laptop05:40
AndyFitzactually yeah. that could do with some revision.  ill draw another scanner flat and see05:41
lamont__totem is in universe?05:43
Keybuklamont__: totem-gstreamer is in main?05:44
lamont__ah, probably05:44
lamont__this feels like a freshly installed system, kinda. :(05:45
lamont__how do I set the default font for xterm?05:45
fabbionelamont__: on the command line05:46
=== fabbione takes 5 minutes break
lamont__Keybuk: that's why I had totem installed instead of totem-gstreamer.  It actually plays my DVD's..05:50
Keybukblame jdub for that one :p05:51
=== justdave [~justdave@] has joined #ubuntu
KeybukConfiguration file `/etc/X11/xkb/rules/xfree86'06:04
Keybuk ==> Modified (by you or by a script) since installation.06:04
Keybuk ==> Package distributor has shipped an updated version.06:04
Keybukmust submit that patch06:08
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-2-174.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
Keybukfabbione: Super key is still screwed in ubuntu12 :-(  have to press+release it for the workspace/window list to go away06:20
Keybukand is this normal?06:20
Keybuksyndicate scott# discover --disable=serial,parallel --format="%S %D\n" video06:21
KeybukXFree86 ati06:21
KeybukXFree86 vesa06:21
Keybuk-- 06:21
seb128hey kagou 06:21
kagouhey seb128 :) i'm under warty ;)06:21
kagoure ploum_06:21
seb128how was the installation ?06:21
kagounice but with 1 error06:21
seb128which one ?06:22
kagoutime system configuration06:22
ploum_hello kagou 06:22
kagouunder sarge we can choose local time and precise if the bios clock is at UTC or not06:22
kagouhere i put Europe/Paris but i'v 2H of decalage06:23
seb128I see06:23
Kamionthe removal of the timezone question was deliberate at Mark's request06:24
lamont__Kamion: so how do we determine TZ then?06:25
mdzKeybuk: that's normal if you have two video cards...06:25
Keybukmdz: just one06:25
Keybukit's giving two drivers for one card06:26
Kamionlamont__: sorry, imprecise; I mean the one that asks whether your BIOS clock is on UTC06:26
mdzKeybuk: add --vendor and --model06:26
lamont__which way did we force the answer?06:26
Kamionlamont__: to UTC06:26
mdzKeybuk: that is, get rid of --format and replace it with --vendor and --model06:27
mdzKeybuk: most likely it's seeing another device and considering it a video card06:27
KeybukATI Technologies, Inc. ATI Default Card06:29
KeybukATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon IGP 340M06:29
Keybukseeing the same card twice06:29
=== AndyFitz sleeps.. g'night
=== AndyFitz [~Andy@c210-49-88-50.rochd3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu []
fabbioneKeybuk: no. the super key is ok as it is. Upstream won't roll back to the original behaviour because it will introduce other bugs.06:35
=== doko_ [~doko@dsl-082-083-136-183.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneKeybuk: lspci -n ?06:36
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-136-183.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
fabbione(btw if discover detects more than one video card it will select and configure only the first one)06:38
Keybukfabbione: how is it ok?  shouldn't it act just like alt?06:38
Keybukfabbione: I'm just wondering ... has daniels added a 1002:* to discover?  (ATI make more than just video cards)06:39
Keybukmy laptop has an ATI PCI Bridge06:39
Keybukand an ATI Host Bridge, heh06:39
fabbioneKeybuk: apparently no. i am trying to find the reference... just a second..06:44
lamont__fabbione: btw, thanks for help with fixing my screwup06:44
fabbioneKeybuk: lspci -n ?06:44
fabbionelamont__: i did nothing...06:45
Keybuk0000:00:00.0 Class 0600: 1002:cbb2 (rev 02)06:45
Keybuk0000:00:01.0 Class 0604: 1002:701006:45
Keybuk    :06:45
Keybuk0000:01:05.0 Class 0300: 1002:433706:45
lamont__fabbione: you were a wealth of information when I was being frustrated.06:45
fabbionei still did nothing :)06:45
mdzKeybuk: ahh06:46
fabbioneKeybuk: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=25974006:46
mdzI guess this is where the vendor-id-based default comes apart06:46
fabbionemdz: good catch...06:47
Keybukmdz: vendor-id is useful, if you remember to only look at class=03xx :p06:47
mdzKeybuk: file that as a bug in bugzilla and assign it to daniels06:47
fabbionebut X still take the first one in input06:47
fabbioneKeybuk: the last part of the bug is interesting06:47
lamont__did jdub go to sleep already>?06:48
Kamionmdz: removing eth1394 from hw-detect now06:48
mdzKamion: ok, I'll upload hotplug06:48
lamont__hrm.. almost 3 AM his time.  bet so.06:51
Keybukmdz: done06:51
Oskurogah, speaking of daniels... I had forgotten about dbus06:51
=== Oskuro goes fix.
=== lamont__ has a stupid evolution question... how do I tell it to sync with the palm?
Keybukfabbione: so Super_L is a "fake key" ... how would GTK+ know it has to ignore that?06:53
fabbioneKeybuk: according to Ivan, applications have to be fixed....06:54
Keybukyeah, but how would GTK+ know?06:54
kagoufor reporting bug may I use "reportbug" ?06:54
Keybukis there a magic "this key is fake, ignore it" flag ?06:54
Kamionlamont__: I'm uploading debian-installer_20040801ubuntu5 now, which *should* build on amd64; let me know ...06:55
fabbioneKeybuk: i dunno. as i already explain other times i do not know kxb at all.06:55
fabbioneKeybuk: and we are just following upstream/ROCKS06:56
Kamionlamont__: I've basically just ripped out all the 2.6-as-alternate-kernel support, so this removes the 2.6/ directories on i386 as well06:56
lamont__Kamion: OK.  I'll have to force the d-w once its there, so let me know.06:56
Kamionit'll be there "tomorrow"06:57
Keybukfabbione: at the moment it basically sounds like upstream are saying "it's the application maintainer's fault for not knowing about this silent, secret change we made and didn't tell anybody about, haven't documented and haven't done properly in the first place"06:57
=== Kamion has to go for a few hours
=== lamont__ shakes his head at cups blanking out the queue name when adding a new printer (lpd type), given that the remote system will happily divulge that...
lamont__Kamion: so upload done already, eh?06:57
Kamionlamont__: yep, just finished06:57
fabbioneKeybuk: the problem is that upstream doesn't even say... and when he says only 2 persons can understand him.. and neither Branden and I are in that category07:03
fabbioneit doesn't make things easy for anybody07:03
Keybukbasically xlibs dfsg4 has LWIN => Super_L, RWIN => Super_R and those two keys modifier_mapped onto Mod407:04
Keybukso Super_L and Super_R are modifier keys07:05
Keybukxlibs trunk/ubuntu has a fake <SUPR> key mapped to take Super_L and then this fake key modifier_mapped to Mod407:05
Keybukso GTK+ just sees that fake <SUPR> key and never sees the modifier07:07
Keybukfabbione: oh, and complete aside, GNOME's ignoring my cursor theme :'(07:08
Keybukand for some reason a bunch of menu icons07:10
Keybukthis may be a seb128 issue <g>07:11
fabbioneKeybuk: well yeah ..07:11
fabbionei understand that everything in a distro is X fault.. and that my skin is hard.. but hey ;)07:12
fabbioneKeybuk: bitch the right person :P07:12
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fabbioneKeybuk: anyway if you have any patch idea or whatever.. better you add it to the debian bug asap07:12
Keybukseb128: oi, bitch! :p07:12
fabbioneKeybuk: because in not too long i will close the merge from debian07:12
Keybukfabbione: well, I have an xkb patch which basically reverts the xlibs 4 behaviour07:13
fabbioneKeybuk: that will introduce other bugs. but i would need to check the references07:13
Keybukbut if upstream are bitching, that may not be a good idea07:13
fabbionethe change was done with the target of fixing these old bugs07:13
Keybukso we actually know what "other bugs" this introduces, or is this a repeat of Mozilla/xprint/postscript again?07:13
fabbioneKeybuk: they are somewhere.. i can ask Overfiend because i don't have references handy. but i am pretty sure you can find stuff in the changelog07:14
fabbioneKeybuk: since -4 didn07:14
fabbioneKeybuk: since -4 didn't have the changes it should be a limited research07:14
fabbione(sorry but i am folding underwear and other stuff while i am talking here)07:14
Keybukthat's ok, fold all the underwear you like :p07:15
mdzfabbione: while you are talking here?  either you use a speech-to-text device, or you fold the underwear with your mouth :-)07:18
lamont__serial sync of the old palm is working...07:19
Keybukhmm... even xev needs to be fixed according to this guy :o)07:20
Keybukoh, wait, typo, maybe not <g>07:22
fabbionemdz: that's what i do.. dreaming about what could be inside... (NB: i am folding only my gf underwear ;))07:22
fabbioneKeybuk: isn't the correct term?07:23
Keybukfabbione: I'm teasing, don't worry :p07:23
fabbionei am not :)07:23
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-2-168.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionemdz: can we consider updating pciutils from sid?07:27
fabbionemdz: there are 2 things that i really care about.07:28
fabbionethe new pci.ids and the -X option07:28
fabbione  * Add -X option for output suitable for use in XFree86Config (closes:07:28
fabbioneor atleast if i can backport the changes07:29
fabbionesince others might be too intrusive07:29
mdzfabbione: it seems to conflict with our alsa-utils07:33
mdzah, because of alsaconf07:33
mdzthe alsa-utils patch for that would be easy to bring in07:34
mdzwe could probably merge alsa-utils 1.0.5-3 though07:35
mdzit includes the patch from 1ubuntu107:35
mdzchanging the output format makes me nervous07:36
mdzhotplug uses that07:36
kagouhow can i request for two packages missing for a user oriented distribution ?07:39
mdzkagou: send mail to the sounder mailing list07:39
kagouok mdz 07:40
fabbionemdz: ok.. i will only sync the pci.ids07:40
mdzfabbione: hmm, actually hotplug doesn't parse the output07:40
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fabbione-X would have been nice.. but it's not a problem since X supports all 3 formats from lspci07:40
fabbioneas i said "It would be nice"07:41
mdzfabbione: well if nothing else parses the output, it is not very risky to change07:41
mdzbut if it is a "would be nice" and not a "fixes bugs"...07:41
fabbionemdz: the output doesn't change.07:41
mdzthe changelog says that it does07:41
fabbioneit changes if you invoke it -X that has been done specifically for X07:41
mdzin -1307:41
fabbione  * Make machine-readable output better machine-readable (closes:07:42
fabbioneyou mean this one?07:42
mdz  * Fix problem with lspci displaying wrong bar size (closes: #256352)07:42
mdz  * Make machine-readable output better machine-readable (closes:07:42
mdzboth of those change the output format07:42
mdzif it fixes bugs, and it is tested thoroughly, then I think we can sync it07:43
mdzif not, then I am inclined to wait07:43
fabbionethe first one is a simple patch (it's in the bts too)07:45
fabbionei am checking the second one07:45
fabbioneboth of them have patches in the BTS07:46
Keybukseb128: weird, needed to nuke ~/.gnome2/session to get my icons and cursor theme again07:46
fabbionethe second one makes more sence to me than the first :)07:46
Keybukstill no icon for "Remote Desktop" though :-/07:46
kagoumdz, i see that you changed my bug report on smbfs. But gnome can't access my windows98SE share, and complain that smbfs is not installed.07:46
mdzkagou: ok, perhaps that is a different bug then07:46
kagouGnome can see then but not enter in07:46
seb128Keybuk: have you kept the faulty one ?07:47
Keybukno, heh07:47
Keybukit's usually that the gconf id thingy goes a bit westward iirc07:47
seb128possible yes07:48
mdzkagou: it should work without smbfs07:48
mdzseb128: isn't that correct?07:49
seb128all is included in gnome-vfs207:49
Keybukseb128: /usr/share/control-center-2.0/capplets/vino-properties.desktop has Icon=gnome-remote-desktop.png07:50
Keybukdo we want to ship that icon, at all? :p07:50
seb128ls -l /usr/share/control-center-2.0/capplets/vino07:52
seb128ls: /usr/share/control-center-2.0/capplets/vino-properties.desktop: No such file or directory07:52
Keybukuh, vino-preferences.desktop07:52
Keybukwe have a gnome-remote-desktop-server.png :p07:53
seb128I've fixed a bug with the icon name during the Oxford meeting07:54
kagouseb128, i will retry without smbfs tomorrow, cause i'v upgraded all the packages today.07:55
seb128damn, that's what happen when you make changes out of the debian dir07:55
Keybukdid you fumble that patch with the "New upstream release" ? :p07:55
seb128I've changed the desktop file directly because vino doesn't use cdbs and I was too lazy to add the dpatch stuff07:55
seb128usually I just take the debian/ dir for the updates, I've no changes out of it :)07:56
Keybukanother one for you07:57
Keybukthe "log out" dialog's reverted to one without shutdown etc. in it07:57
seb128weird, I've not changed gnome-session or gdm07:58
seb128and it still works on my warty box here07:58
mdzI thought we were adding powernowd to desktop?07:58
seb128Keybuk: have you started the session with gdm ?07:58
Keybukah, no07:59
seb128ok, that's it so07:59
Keybukthat's kinda cute :p  I guess you can't have that if you've not got gdm to do it for you07:59
seb128gnome-session uses gdmflexiserver to do this08:00
seb128so without gdm ... :)08:00
Keybukyeah, started with gdm and it's ok08:00
Keybuk(am fiddling with xkb, so had just done startx)08:00
thommdz: it's in the desktop seed?08:02
Keybukok, well I understand why Super doesn't work right ... I don't understand why XFree86 think this is correct08:03
mdzgerminate disagrees08:03
thommdz: under hardware/architecture support on the wiki08:03
mdzor maybe my germinate is busted08:03
mdzyeah, I can see08:03
mdz? Unknown desktop package: powernowd08:03
mdzits Packages file is out of date08:04
mdzok, it's there now08:04
mdzI thought it had been there for a while, though, but my laptop (which I installed last week) didn't get it08:05
thomi added it just after wartyconf08:05
Keybuk  Version Table:08:07
Keybuk *** 0.90-1ubuntu3 008:07
Keybuk        750 http://auckland.warthogs.hbd.com warty/main Packages08:07
Keybuk        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status08:07
mdzthom: if I wanted to make some packages publicly available for download, where would I do that?  rookery?08:10
thomrookery for the moment, yeah08:10
Mithrandirlifeless: how hard would it be to get squid to receive a request, then send it to a bunch of other servers but ignore the answers from those servers?08:21
=== mdz peers at Mithrandir
Mithrandirmdz: load-testing to see whether an a2 setup with php seems to be safe or not.08:41
thomMithrandir: i hope your toungue is firmly in your cheek when you use php and safe in the same sentence08:42
Mithrandirthom: I'm innocent.  It's all sesse's fault.08:43
thomhe seems to get blamed for an awful lot08:44
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
tvon|x31Is anyone having issues with rounded metacity corners not really being rounded?08:45
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seb128tvon|x31: which theme ?08:49
tvon|x31seb128: Industrial right now, but I believe its anyting with rounded corners08:51
=== tvon|x31 checks
seb128what's the problem ? do you have a screenshot ?08:51
tvon|x31yup, amaranth and Gorilla both have the same problem08:51
tvon|x31Sure, one minute 08:51
tvon|x31150k or so08:57
tvon|x31It seems to add a 1px black border to the window...roughly08:57
tvon|x31let me put up a shot of industrial08:57
Keybukwhat does 'xdpyinfo | grep SHAPE' say ?08:58
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-23-71.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
tvon|x31hrm, missing x mod?08:59
Keybuktvon|x31: that's your problem then, your X driver doesn't support the SHAPE extension08:59
Keybukdoes xeyes produce the same effect?08:59
tvon|x31xeyes comes out managed08:59
tvon|x31as a managed window I mean08:59
Keybukoh, it does here too -- someone must've changed it :-/09:00
tvon|x31hrm, I'm using the ati driver, is there something better for radeon?09:00
Keybukthe ati driver should be fine09:01
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
tvon|x31A switch to the radeon driver seems to have changed nothing09:05
Keybuksame driver09:05
Keybukgrep for SHAPE in /var/log/XFree86.0.log ?09:05
tvon|x31oh, heh09:06
tvon|x31Nope, no SHAPE there either09:06
Keybukwhat card is it?  (lspci)09:06
tvon|x31ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M6 LY09:07
Keybukdo you have the kernel radeon module loaded ?09:07
Keybukis there a 'Load "extmod"' in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4's Module section ?09:09
tvon|x31ah, crap09:09
Keybukadd that :)09:09
Keybukdid you write the config, or was it automatically generated ?09:09
tvon|x31generated, barely09:10
tvon|x31I think I ran dpkg-reconfigure xsdrver-xfree8609:10
tvon|x31which runs the prompt-you-for-everything curses interface09:10
tvon|x31The base-config part of my install choked on a missing evolution dep, so I installed a lot of things manually afterwards09:11
=== tvon|x31 restarts X
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
tvon|x31ahh, much better09:16
tvon|x31Thanks for the help09:17
tvon|x31So....now I think my only problem is the wifi applet that cant find the wifi09:19
Keybukis the wifi proper wireless-ext, or wlan-ng ?09:20
tvon|x31not sure, its the orinoco_cs module09:21
tvon|x31er..wlan-ng uses wlan0 and such for the interface name, correct?09:22
tvon|x31its eth2 here09:22
Keybukand in the wireless-app preferences, is there an eth2 in the drop-down?09:24
Keybuk. o O ( what's eth1 ? :p )09:24
Keybukand if you select that, it doesn't work?09:24
tvon|x31eth1 is firewire09:24
tvon|x31its the only thing to select09:24
tvon|x31when I start the applet it gives an error...one sec09:24
tvon|x31okay, I lied ,no error09:24
tvon|x31I'm on wifi now, so it works09:25
mdzapt-get upgrade should take care of that firewire ethernet interface :-)09:35
jdubit's 0530hrs, what's the 0 stand for? oh my lord, it's early!09:36
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mdzjdub: or quite late09:36
tvon|x31Is gnome-system-tools on the menu for Ubuntu?09:43
Keybuktvon: Computer -> System Administration09:43
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mdzfabbione: X ubuntu12 just asked me which driver, though I have discover1 installed09:47
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=== ploum_ is now known as ploum
=== tvon__ [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionlamont__: how did that amd64 build go?10:05
lamont__Kamion: sorry - was grabbing a bite10:26
lamont__Dependencies: iso-scan10:26
mdzjdub: *nods enthusiastically*10:29
mdzabout time, if you ask me10:29
jdubi just upgraded my test box10:29
Kamionlamont__: thanks, fixed in 20040801ubuntu6, uploading now10:29
lamont__Kamion: iso-scan is in universe...10:30
Kamionlamont__: best place for it10:30
KamionUploading via ftp debian-installer_20040801ubuntu6_source.changes: done.10:31
jdubexcept this time without the installer cd in the drive...10:31
Kamionif I had a pound for every time I'd done that, I'd be very rich10:32
jdubdo we still have funny usplash stuff int he initrd?10:32
Kamionwhat kind of funny usplash stuff?10:32
jdubi get totally wacky grub flashy bits before it prints the grub summary and 'starting ubuntu...'10:33
[Clint] Kamion: thanks on sed10:33
danielsjdub: that's probably fun with framebuffers10:33
jduboh crap, and now x is not running10:33
Kamion[Clint] : no problem, looked like a good idea once enough people prodded me that I remembered to do something about it10:34
Kamionjdub: oh yes, I still get that grub stuff10:34
=== seb128_ [~seb128@ABoulogne-110-1-2-242.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
seb128_jdub: here ?10:42
seb128_would be nice to know exactly what's needed for the Computer menu soon know10:43
thommdz: do these new kernel's have the latest acpi goodness?10:43
seb128_we are really getting short in time if we want to make more changes10:44
mdzthom: it has a few acpi fixes, but I don't think it merges the latest post-2.6.8 acpi patch or anything like that10:44
jdubseb128_: and getting new requirements all the time!10:45
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
lamont__what did the computer icon turn into10:46
danielsfabbione: PING10:49
thommdz: ipw2100 works, i still have acpi suspend10:56
mdzthom: interesting; ipw2200 isn't working for me10:56
thommdz: acpi_ibm might be nice to have10:56
mdzthough I had it more or less working built against 2.6.710:56
thomibm_acpi. i mean10:57
thommdz: strange. herbert used the latest ipw2200 drop?10:57
mdzthom: yeah, 0.410:59
dokolamont__: could you make the build logs for gcc-3.4 i386 and amd64 available?11:04
dokoelmo: where should issues for the override file be filed?11:05
thommdz: http://bkernel.sf.net/tmp/ibm-acpi-0.3.tar.gz11:06
=== Kamion burns an i386 CD with the rearranged /install/2.6/ -> /install/, and goes to the pub in the meantime
Kamionlamont__: did the amd64 build work this time?11:11
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jdubyo Gman 11:17
thomhey dude11:18
lamont__Kamion: 11:18
=== lamont__ grabs udev and beats the living hell out of it.
KamionCould not find kernel image: /install/vmlinuz11:18
jdubno beer for you!11:19
KamionI'm tempted to bugger off anyway, it'll be horrible debian-cd internals11:19
Kamion$ ls /cdrom/install/11:19
KamionREADME.sbm  netboot  sbm.bin11:19
Kamiondouble oopsie11:19
Kamionlamont__: was that meant to be an empty reply? :)11:20
lamont__Kamion: misordered was all... d-i is uploaded11:20
Kamionlamont__: hooray! thanks11:20
lamont__doko: I'll copy them over, but they come down to 'xargs: rm: terminated by signal 4'11:21
lamont___why_ that is consistantly getting a SIGILL, I do not know.11:21
Kamionrighto, think I've fixed it, really beer time now11:21
dokono, I mean the i386 build, just wanting to see the borked versioned dependency in lib64stdc++5 on lib64gcc1.11:22
mdzthom: what I see with ipw2200 is that it seems to associate for a split-second and then revert to 00:00:00:00:00:0011:23
mdzthom: I can see it switch to the correct channel and AP11:23
mdzif I repeatedly iwconfig it11:24
mdzah, it finally locked11:24
mdzvery weird11:25
lamont__anybody know gnome-pilot well at all?11:33
=== lamont__ needs to have it wait 2 seconds before it tries to open the device.
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
thommdz: very strange. i just looked, briefly, and i can't see any reports of ipw2200 failures obviously caused by 11:47
tvon|x31Anyone running Mono?11:48
lamont__doko: chinstrap:~lamont/gcc-3.4_3.4.1ds1-7ubuntu4_20040901-1604 11:59

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