[12:01] man, doing a star-merge with an empty revlib on a 233 MHz machine is a pain in the butt. [12:02] pulling from rocketfuel back to the desktop machine since the laptop is getting dismantled so I can return the dead hard drive in it. === limi [~limi@159.80-202-72.nextgentel.com] has joined #launchpad === spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #launchpad === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net === ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has joined #launchpad === spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #launchpad === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #launchpad === elmo [~james@83.216.141.215] has joined #launchpad === SteveA [~steve@adsl-213-190-44-43.takas.lt] has joined #launchpad [05:27] !dmwaters:*! Hi all, it looks as though one of our main rotation servers is having some network trouble. [05:28] !dmwaters:*! This server was just pulled from rotation, and we're keeping an eye on it [10:29] does something in gnome set there polling the CD drive? [10:29] s/gnome/warty/ I guess since, I killed the X session === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #launchpad === lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #launchpad === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #launchpad [11:25] hmm, not having a root password, makes mistake like typo-ing 'usermod -s $SHELL user' that much more painful [11:30] elmo: wrong channel? [11:32] spiv: ping [11:39] carlos: no? warty's the only system I know without a root password/user :p [11:39] elmo: but this is the #launchpad channel, not #ubuntu :-) [11:40] oh, so it is === elmo goes back to sleep [11:41] :-P [12:23] daf: ping [12:42] daf, carlos, lulu: can we have a rosetta meeting in 20 mins? [12:43] SteveA: yup - and Lalo and Limi? [12:43] SteveA: for me it's ok, but I think daf is not online now [12:43] I had a chat with mark last night, and clarified some of the details of what we need to do with rosetta. === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #launchpad [12:55] SteveA: I'd recommend we have the full team present, as we now need to lay down what is/what is not deliverable for each milestone. It would be good for Limi and Lalo to be present. Thoughts? [12:59] I think me, you, carlos and daf will be sufficient to discuss my conversation with mark last night === SteveA waits for daf to appear [12:59] SteveA: ok [01:20] hi everybody [01:20] I'm just going to grab some breakfast -- be right back [01:20] hiya :o) [01:22] ok, let's start! [01:23] daf: that was a fast breakfast :-P [01:23] I'm still eating :) [01:24] :-) === limi [~limi@159.80-202-72.nextgentel.com] has joined #launchpad [01:25] Steve's just on a call with Jane... [01:32] daf: in the interim, could you check the rosetta server - it's down. cheers :o) [01:37] hi, I'm back. [01:38] ok, could we start then? [01:39] I should go out in about one hour [01:39] yep, let's start [01:40] I want to clarify our immediate goals for rosetta [01:40] I had a talk on the phone with mark last night, and we talked in some detail about what rosetta needs to be able to do [01:41] For our alpha, and beta releases, rosetta will be a "global rosetta" [01:41] it will be available under rosetta.ubuntulinux.org [01:41] there will be a hard-coded page there that lists the packages in ubuntu that we most want translation help on, with links into rosetta [01:42] but, any packages/products will be available for translation in ubuntu's rosetta [01:42] and if someone requests we add a product that isn't in ubuntu, that's fine, we can do so [01:42] the products will still be availalbe, but won't be directly linked to the ubuntu rosetta front page [01:43] we also want to put rosetta (same database, maybe even same app server) at rosetta.theshuttleworthfoundation.org or rosetta.tsf.org.za (or whatever it is) [01:43] rosetta will be "marketed" first of all as a TSF project. TSF is mark's non-profit organisation in south africa. [01:44] TSF/mark will be approaching governments etc. in africa to get them interested in rosetta [01:44] and in having a localized ubuntu [01:45] this too will be a "global" rosetta, but with no "we want help with these ubuntu packages" page [01:45] later on, after the beta, we'll want a rosetta.projectname.org, for example, rosetta.dia.org, for translating just the dia application. [01:46] So, that's the context of the alpha / beta release. === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #launchpad [01:46] for functionality, we need two things: [01:46] 1: A way for people to request new packages be added. This can simply be a web form that emails daf, or emails the launchpad list. [01:47] 2: someone is able to translate an application into a language of their choice, or add translations to a language an application is translated into already [01:48] the overall functional test is "can I efficiently and effectively translate Dia into gaelic?" [01:48] I'm done. Does that make snese? [01:48] or , sense, even === limi nods [01:50] SteveA: the point 2) should be almost ready, the 1) is a new feature, but I don't think it's difficult to do it [01:50] 1) is in there, but not wired up at the moment, I believe [01:50] UI-wise :) [01:50] limi: perfect :-) [01:51] of course needs HappyTalk Adjustment etc ;) [01:52] SteveA: so we have global Rosetta with the top projects on the home page, rathjer than [01:52] being dynamic, hard coded links to ubuntu packages [01:53] right. the ubuntu rosetta is a "global" rosetta, with a different homepage. [01:53] and the search will reveal all projects in "global Rosetta" [01:53] we can make the software do this easily enough [01:53] yes [01:54] that's fine - different to what Mark and I discussed yesterday. [01:54] to make the software do this, we can have /rosetta and /ubunturosetta [01:54] how are we showing translation efforts then, as we have not got that sorted yet? [01:54] /rosetta can be an object that provides IRosettaApplication and /ubunturosetta an object that provides IUbuntuRosettaApplication. We register a different homepage for the latter. [01:54] we don't need translation efforts for the alpha or beta === SteveA waits for daf to offer an opinion on the whole thing, and on translation efforts === limi gets breakfast/lunch [01:55] being sick is no fun :( [01:55] leakfast or brunch [01:56] SteveA: translation efforts is not finished, in fact is frozen until "post-beta" phase [01:56] so we don't need to care about it [01:56] good [01:56] SteveA: the whole thing sounds fine [01:58] and I believe translation efforts are not of concern at present [01:59] daf: do you need to re-visit your document, given the above? [02:01] yes [02:02] I need to add the requirement for being able to request new projects [02:02] can you do that now, and then we can talk about the revised doc a little later today [02:02] sure [02:04] then, is the meeting over now? [02:05] daf: great. Shall we say in 1 hour? [02:06] carlos: yes, thanks [02:06] ok, I will be back after lunch [02:06] cheers [02:06] SteveA: thanks for final definitive clarity. [02:07] I had quite a long conversation about rosetta with mark last night [02:07] SteveA: 1pm UTC? [02:07] while he was walking around outside his parents' place, trying not to crush snails underfoot [02:08] daf: yep, 2pm your time [02:08] is that okay? [02:10] yep [02:10] Limi needs to revise UI of the home page and place hard coded links on the page for all the Ubuntu applications. [02:10] is the definitive list on the wiki for warty? [02:10] I think we'll have the list of applications stored in python code [02:10] indeed [02:10] so, the ubuntulinux front page will get that list, and display it appropriately === limi will not add 9328746 applications in the HTML ;) [02:11] so limi - you can get to the app list then? [02:11] yup [02:11] as long as there is a method that returns i [02:11] t [02:11] great - can you do the ui for this page today? [02:12] probably, dashboard is also a priority [02:12] daf / carlos / lalo can do a mock-up that displays the data, and replace it with limi's golden version later [02:12] my productivity is hard to predict, since I am not well yet [02:13] sometimes I have to lie down in the middle of the day [02:13] but today has been good so far [02:13] so let's shoot for that ;) [02:14] great - so home page and dashboard is going for gold [02:14] if not, a honorable silver ;) [02:14] they should be functional, if not pretty [02:14] we'll insist on doping tests for whichever gets gold [02:14] so, you never know... silver may get upgraded [02:15] we are due to launch on the 15th September guys - 2 weeks away, so we need to start testing this final functionality that is now our goal. === limi would certainly not pass the doping test with this much vitamin C [02:15] limi: hope you feel better soon :o) - I know Vikings bounce back quickly! === lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #launchpad [03:04] daf: how's the revision going? [03:04] I've revised the document [03:08] NotFoundError: (, 'title') [03:08] eh?? [03:10] I'm reading through the document now. [03:11] At the conference, we agreed that the task board was very useful to keep track of daily tasks. [03:11] and that we should have a meeting every day to track progress [03:11] is the team in agreement that we should continue this? [03:12] I foudn it very effective while we were physically together [03:12] daf: when we have this page that mails you to request a new project be included, how will you actually include the new project? [03:13] daf: what are the bugs in po import? [03:14] # [03:14] Submitting new/updated translations. [03:14] * [03:14] Partially implemented, being worked on by Daf. [03:14] do we have a list of things needed before this is fully implemented? [03:14] I can't work on this because too many other things are broken [03:14] traversals are broken [03:14] let's take one thing at a time. [03:14] adapting principals to persons is broken [03:15] first, bugs in po import [03:15] do you have a list of these bugs? [03:15] the PO import causes duplicate message IDs in PO files [03:15] that's the only one I can think of [03:15] we don't have a list [03:16] ok, please file that bug in bugzilla [03:16] which Bugzilla? [03:16] https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/ [03:17] there's a rosetta product/component in there [03:17] who is going to fix that bug? [03:18] Lalo is [03:18] is he working on it now? [03:19] https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1905 [03:19] I have no idea [03:20] please mail lalo, and give him that bug URL, and ask him to work on fixing that bug [03:20] he'll have already gotten mail when I assigned that bug to him [03:21] better to mail him, and actually ask him to work on it [03:22] I'll add a comment to the bug [03:22] which he'll get by email [03:23] done [03:23] ok [03:24] what are the bugzilla logins? [03:24] I have my password, but I don't know what login id to use/ [03:24] they are email addresses [03:24] I tried that [03:24] I guess I need a new password... [03:26] we need to note in the bug that we must have a unit test or a functional test for this [03:26] also, a description of how to reproduce the bug would be good, so we know how to empirically test that the bug is fixed. [03:27] this could be in the form of a doctest in the bug report. [03:27] oh, I must show you the new zope3 functional doctests soon -- now with no need for set-up boilerplate! [03:28] ooh [03:28] we need to get lalo to estimate the task of fixing this bug [03:28] getting lalo would be a start... [03:28] is it 1/2 day, 1 day, ...? [03:28] no idea [03:28] I don't know the import code well enough [03:29] I don't have a test case [03:29] lalo should estimate it, not you [03:29] I just noticed it happening as I was fixing the ftests [03:29] please add to the bug's notes that task 1 is to write a test case [03:29] oh, rhetorical question [03:29] task 2 is to fix it [03:31] ok, another comment added [03:31] great [03:32] next, let's talk about submitting new / updated translations [03:32] feel free to CC yourself to this bug [03:32] ok [03:32] 1) Create translation tool [03:32] we need to come up with the list of things that stand in the way of your doing this [03:33] first of all, I need to be able to see the translation template [03:33] limi: I think this step is the hard one [03:33] yes, me too [03:33] this is prevented by at least two things [03:33] first, traversing to this template doesn't work === SteveA is worried by "at least"... [03:34] second, adapting IPrincipal to IPerson doesn't work [03:34] traversing to which template doesn't work? [03:34] please give a URL table spec [03:34] https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution [03:34] any templates beyond project are affeted by this [03:35] I've been working on a fix for this [03:35] I'm confused by this "rosettaProducts" method [03:35] maybe you'd like me to work on fixing this? [03:35] I probably caused the bug [03:36] stick a bug in bugzilla, and assign it to me [03:36] I think you did [03:36] but I also think I've fixed it [03:36] by adding IRosettProject.produt [03:36] what is the fix? [03:36] .product [03:37] I don't think that's the right way to fix it. [03:37] Here's what I suggest: [03:37] * keep your fix in your sandbox, so you can keep working [03:37] * assign the bug to me in bugzilla, and I'll work on it [03:38] sandbox? [03:38] * add the patch you used to fix it to the bug in bugzilla [03:38] by "sandbox" I mean your own tree on your laptop [03:38] which may contain uncommitted code [03:39] it doesn't [03:39] it doesn't what [03:39] ? [03:39] contain code which hasn't been merged to rocketfuel [03:40] so, you have already merged your fix? [03:40] no [03:40] the notion of "sandbox" is just, "place where you do work" [03:40] you are playing in your own sandbox [03:40] yes [03:41] ok. does that address that problem of traversal? [03:41] you can keep working, I'll fix it in RF [03:42] but it will cause more work for me later, won't it? [03:42] what will cause more work for you? [03:42] (got to lose that pronoun habit!) [03:42] ;-) [03:42] resolving our differing fixes [03:42] pronoun habit? :) [03:43] oh, "it"? [03:43] I had to ask what "it" was [03:43] sorry [03:43] you'll be able to just remove your fix [03:43] once mine is in RF [03:43] ok, we'll do it this way [03:43] ok [03:43] next, principal --> person [03:44] https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/translator [03:44] (as exhibited by) [03:44] ok, here's the problem: [03:45] we have principals who are people who have logged in [03:45] we have the unauthenticated principal, which is the state of the system when no-one has logged in [03:46] when you want to present something that depends on the Person who is logged in, you need to check that a person actually is logged in [03:46] we can do that in two ways [03:46] 1: set a permission on the page so that a person must be logged in to access it [03:46] how do we do that? [03:46] 2: check to see if a person is logged in, and present something else if not [03:46] easiest way to do "2" is: [03:46] person = IPerson(request.principal, None) [03:47] if person is None: [03:47] # nobody is logged in [03:47] else: [03:47] # use person.languages or whatever [03:47] at the moment, I think (2) is appropriate for the pages we have [03:47] we probably want to change request/lp:person to return None if nobody is logged in [03:47] I don't know if it does that or not [03:48] So, let's add a bug! in fact, let's add two [03:48] 1: check all uses of IPerson(request.principal) to see if they do something sensible when no-one is logged in [03:48] 2: check the implementation of request/lp:person to make sure it works right [03:49] I think there was some evil hard-coding of your name in the IPerson adapter code too :-) [03:49] so, perhaps we have [03:49] 3: check that the IPerson adapter code is as it should be [03:49] the implementation returns None on the unathenticated princiapl [03:49] you can assign bugs 2 and 3 to me [03:49] I don't think Zope likes that [03:49] bug 1, I think you should do [03:50] you may be right. I'd like to look at it closely. [03:50] add the bugs, and I'll go through the ones assigned to me. [03:50] ok [03:52] steve@z3u.com is your Bugzilla ID? [03:52] yes [03:52] justdave: we should look at changing these to canonical addresses [03:52] or allowing both/either [03:53] daf: so, with IPerson(request.principal, None), you should be able to proceed. [03:53] What else is blocking you? [03:53] the strange database error I was getting [03:54] bbiam. biobreak. [03:55] the software is willing, but the hardware is weak? [03:55] https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1906 [03:56] SteveA: yeah, changing all to canonical.com addresses makes sense now that we have them. [03:57] justdave: perhaps suggest it on the warthogs list, then assuming no complaints, do it? [03:57] also, is it possible/easy to have a drop-down of people I can assign bugs to? [03:58] or get bugzilla to know about mail aliases, so I can just enter fabbione@canonical.com rather than fabbio.massimo.di.nitto@canonical.com as an assignee === SteveA lets daf catch up with the filing of bugs [03:59] https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1907 [03:59] SteveA: yeah, that was just added recently... I need to upgrade it anyway to get the fixed search stuff (the "find a specific bug" search is partially broken at the moment) [04:00] I'll turn on the drop-down boxes once I get it upgraded [04:00] justdave: when will you be doing the upgrade? [04:01] depends on how involved it winds up being to do it and keep our local hacks. I'll try it on a local copy here tonight, and if it goes off well, the ones on macquarie can probably get upgraded tonight or tomorrow. [04:01] downtime is usually less than a minute if I have it prepared ahead of time, so most folks won't even notice, but I'll still post a time so people know to stay clear. [04:02] elmo: was there some talk about bugzilla moving from maquarie to somewhere else, so that bugzilla is running on a different machine to the app servers? [04:02] https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1908 [04:02] ok, done [04:02] daf: great [04:03] database problems? [04:03] es [04:03] yes [04:03] I can't recall the details now [04:03] not sure I have much to go on [04:03] I pasted it to the channel [04:04] do you keep logs? [04:04] stevea: yes. when we have the new servers [04:04] or we can get fabbionne's logs [04:04] elmo: when will that be? [04:04] 17:52 DatabaseException: unindexable object [04:05] elmo: (just approximately... out of interest) [04:05] daf: can you work out some instructions for reproducing that error? [04:06] that'll be the kind of thing that is easiest to investigate from the post-mortem debugger [04:06] once I can reproduce the error again, yes [04:07] if you can't reproduce it, then it is actually holding you up? [04:09] carlos: pong [04:10] daf: hat's probably a % quoting issue. [04:10] I could last reproduce it before I did a star-=merge which introduced these new bugs [04:10] Try using %% instead. [04:11] hi andrew [04:11] (cursor.execute does a '....' % params internally) [04:11] SteveA: Good moprning. [04:11] spiv: hmm, could be [04:11] spiv: this was in a selectBy, IIRC [04:11] daf: I got confused by that yesterday, which is why I know ;) [04:11] are % quoting issues listed on the SQLObject page on the wiki? [04:12] if not, someone who understands the issue should add a note there [04:12] daf: Hmm, it might still trigger there (although if it did, it would be a bug in SQLObject) [04:12] SteveA: Not yet, but good diea. [04:12] idea, rather. [04:12] spiv: is this something that would be easy to check? [04:13] spiv: will you update the docs? [04:13] daf: If I'm understanding your question, try putting '%' in a search form, and see what happens. [04:14] SteveA: Yep [04:14] thanks [04:14] spiv: not a search form [04:15] stevea: I don't know, I'm still in reseller hell, trying to get sabdfl friendly prices [04:15] oh, hp [04:15] (and dell and ibm) [04:15] we should just become a reseller... and ship ubuntu pre-installed ;-) [04:16] spiv: I did enocunter this problem when I implemented our search [04:16] spiv: and found, through experiment, that using %% fixed it [04:16] this was a couple of weeks ago [04:16] this might be a similar problem [04:17] daf: when you find out something like that, do send an email to the list [04:17] then, we can all learn from that, and perhaps someone who knows the internals can comment on the best way to do it [04:17] SteveA: I thought it was an SQL weirdness rather than a Python weirdness [04:17] but yes, I shuold have emailed the list [04:18] spiv: I can't reproduce it right now, but I should be able to later [04:18] spiv: how's New York? [04:18] spiv: or have you already left? [04:18] daf: This is a psycopg wierdness, I think. Certainly not an SQL weirdness. [04:18] daf: Here for one more night. [04:18] daf: I need to have another meeting about now. Did we go through all the things blocking you? [04:18] It's big and dirty :) [04:19] spiv: please give my regards to Mika [04:19] SteveA: I think so [04:19] Ok. [04:19] SteveA: I need to go and have lunch anyhow [04:19] is Mako back there yet? [04:19] daf: ok. Let's talk again in 2 or 3 hours [04:20] SteveA: let's === SteveA goes to another meeting [04:21] spiv: dirtier than London? :) [04:21] daf: Not yet. He's apparently bouncing around DC and Seattle atm. [04:21] ah, right [04:22] daf: Looks like it to me -- a dozen garbage bags at every street corner kind of dirty... but then, I didn't really see any of London apart from South Kensington. :) [04:23] well, London is mostly dirty through smog, I think [04:23] limi: what do you think? [04:24] yes, I think London is dirty ;) [04:25] dirty in what way? [04:25] carpetness, toilets, general hygiene [04:25] the city itself isn't that bad [04:25] it's the people ;) [04:26] heh === limi offends 4 million people in one fell swoop [04:26] hehe [04:26] I mostly notice the air quality when I go there [04:26] limi: I thought it was 7 million? :) [04:27] it also has chewing-gum-encrusted-pavement syndrome, but that's common to lots of Britain === daf -> lunch === lalo [~lalo@200-102-070-116.paemt7003.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #launchpad [04:35] Porto Alegre is wet too [04:37] hello all [04:38] daf: yt? [04:38] hi lalo [04:38] daf has just gone to have lunch [04:38] oh, ok [04:39] you have a bug assigned to you [04:39] I can try to unearth this bug while he's eating [04:39] also, you might want to read the irc logs of the meeting earlier, or alternatively / additionally, look at the https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/RosettaAlpha page [04:40] ok === lalo screams @ gaim === limi is now known as limi|nearby [04:43] hi lalo - good to see you :o) [04:44] hey lu [04:44] lalo: so, the first thing with that bug is to estimate it [04:45] then, test case (and maybe re-estimate after that) [04:46] SteveA: the first thing, I believe, is finding it - I can't estimate if I don't know what will be involved in fixing [04:47] in that case, it is good to say "I'll spend X hours looking into it, then do an estimate" [04:47] this makes the work more visible to others [04:48] ok [04:48] if you haven't got to a good point after X hours, then we (you, me, daf) need to talk about it [04:48] we might need a different approach / look for the problem in a different place [04:49] that's 1h, I suppose. [04:50] but not immediatly - I'll start after I'm done with the logs [04:51] logs? [04:51] oh, right [04:51] actually, read the wiki page, [04:51]