=== lamont__ wonders if pia is a wake yet, or if jdub has access to her gnome-pilot config
jdubshe's left for work12:03
jdubhold on12:03
jdubit's just using /dev/ttyUSB012:05
jdubi was thinking12:05
jdubwhat might be biting you is udev12:05
jduband hotpluggy things12:05
jdubwhere the device name isn't there by the time gnome-pilot wants it or something12:05
lamont__almost certainly udev race condition12:05
jdubpipka doesn't use udev or anything yet12:05
=== lamont__ considers ripping udev off his system, wonders what will be broken differently>
jdubthe person to ask about these things is jpr on gimpnet12:06
lamont__bye bye gnome-volume-manager12:06
Keybukudev doesn't really have race conditions, as such, just things get done in the wrong order12:06
jdubthe weird thing about the pilot is that the device is really only there when you press the connect butto12:06
jdubwhich sucks arse12:07
lamont__Keybuk: like lanching the waiting app before creating the device files?12:07
jduband unavoidable afaics12:07
Keybuklamont__: exactly :)12:07
lamont__that'd be a race12:07
Keybukor going to create the device files before /sys has even been populated12:07
lamont__jdub: what rate is she using on ttyUSB0?12:08
lamont__and did she call it serial, or USB>?12:08
jdub115000 or whatever12:09
lamont__(gpilotd:8345): gpilotd-WARNING **: pi_accept_to: Connection timed out12:10
lamont__I'm tempted to see if network sync'ing works12:12
lamont__actually, I can snarf stuff from the device with pilot-link directly, but gpilotd just doesn't want to connect12:13
danielsmdz: does setting 'key off' or 'key open' with iwconfig key?12:24
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jdubmdz: what to do about portmap?12:28
mdzdaniels: doesn't seem to12:30
jdubmdz: oh, never mind12:30
jdubfound #50512:30
mdzjdub: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=50512:30
mdzfiled my patch there now12:31
jdubshould we always be loading the freq modules and so on?12:35
danielsmdz: weird12:35
jduboh, must be hotplugged12:36
mdzI've loaded it with ultra debugging now12:36
mdzjdub: they're loaded by the powernowd init script12:36
jdubheh, eek:12:37
jdububuntu:~# /etc/init.d/powernowd start12:37
jdubLoading cpufreq modules:12:37
jdub     cpufreq_powersave12:37
jdub     cpufreq_userspace12:37
jdub     freq_table12:37
jdub     proc_intf12:37
jdubWARNING: Error inserting processor (/lib/modules/ No such device12:37
jdubFATAL: Error inserting acpi (/lib/modules/ Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)12:37
jdubStarting powernowd:12:37
jdubrequired sysfs objects not found!12:37
jdub        Read /usr/share/doc/powernowd/README.Debian for more information.12:37
mdzthis produces a great deal of output but has brought me no closer to solving the problem12:38
mdzdaniels: want to take a look?12:38
mdzjdub: ask thom12:38
jdubman, i wish the assign to field had sexy completion like the component field :)12:39
danielsmdz: at the ipw stuff, or hotplug mice?12:40
mdzdaniels: ipw12:40
danielsnot having an ipw myself, it's kind of hard, no?12:40
mdzwell, I can send you the 800 pages of debugging output I have, if you want to look at it :-)12:41
jdubhrm, what's thom's email address in bugzilla?12:41
lamont__jdub: gimpnet == irc.wht?12:42
lamont__irc.what, that is...12:42
danielsmdz: yeah, I can do that later on; right now I'm fixing the discover mess (sounders@) by syncing the entire PCI device lists we have in the X driver for ATI/NVIDIA/Intel/S3 back to discover12:42
jdubhrm, still have missing components all over the place :|12:42
danielslamont__: irc.gnome.org, irc.gimp.net (or irc.gimpnet.org)12:42
jdublamont__: irc.gimp.org or irc.gnome.org12:42
jdublamont__: he's away now though12:42
danielsmdz: (and have to run my sister out to school in a sec)12:42
jdublamont__: based in boston12:43
jdubACPI disabled because your bios is from 00 and too old12:43
mdzjdub: dude, we have never even tried to import all the components12:44
jdub# nmap -sU -T Insane
jdubStarting nmap 3.55 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2004-09-02 08:34 EST12:44
jdubSkipping host due to host timeout12:44
danielsjdub: acpi=force12:44
jdubdaniels: yeah, it says that right next to it... but i don't think i want to :)12:44
danielsworked fine on my laptop (albeit with the caveat that you could kill the machine)12:45
danielsack, :45 -- school time. bbiab.12:45
jdubmdz: sounds like RH are going with LVM by default in FC312:45
jdubmdz: would that make sense in the general case? (desktops, laptops, etc)12:45
mdzjdub: for the root filesystem?12:45
mdzhell no12:45
jdub(depending what your general case is, yada)12:46
mdzwhat filesystem do they use by default?12:46
jdubDevice 'i823650' does not have a release() function, it is broken and must be fixed.12:46
jdubBadness in device_release at drivers/base/core.c:8512:46
jdub [<c01a4848>]  kobject_cleanup+0x98/0xa012:46
jdub [<d08853c3>]  init_i82365+0x1c3/0x1d9 [i82365] 12:46
jdub [<c0133030>]  sys_init_module+0x100/0x21012:46
mdzso they use LVM by default, and a filesystem that isn't online-resizable?12:46
jdub [<c0105fe9>]  sysenter_past_esp+0x52/0x7112:46
jdubit *sounds* like they're looking at LVM by default12:47
mdzjdub: "looking at" or "going with"?12:47
jdubgoing with12:47
jdubi'll fidn otu12:47
mdzsounds like crack so far, but maybe there's more to it12:47
Keybukis that the "impending release" FC ?12:47
Keybukor the next one?12:47
mdzthe only point is to be able to expand the thing12:48
mdzand if they're using ext3, they can only do that when it's unmounted12:48
mdzand unmounting the root filesystem to resize it is, er, inconvenient12:48
lamont__jdub: when is a good time to catch him?12:50
Keybuk^ pretty12:50
jdublamont__: hrm, a few hours ago12:50
jdublamont__: i don't really know :)12:50
jdubbusiness hours, i guess12:50
jdubKeybuk: mmm12:50
lamont__business hours which TZ?12:50
=== lamont__ goes back to jpilot in the meantime
mdzjdub: did you try that mouse test?12:52
mdzit works perfectly for me12:52
jdubhaven't rebooted test machine yet12:53
jdubit sounds right though12:53
jdubmdz: so, we pretty much established that the mdadm daemon only did notification, right?12:54
mdzjdub: yes12:55
jdubhappy for me to upload a version that doesn't run the daemon by default?12:55
=== aes [~andrew@dsl-212-23-23-154.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
mdzI suppose12:56
jdubyo aes12:56
mdzfloat the idea on sounder first?12:56
mdzit's a shame they aren't separate packages12:56
aeshey jdub12:56
jdubtempted to take the disks out of my desktop and do the install01:05
jdubdum de dum...01:05
Keybuk^ reasonably informative01:09
=== bdale [~bdale@] has joined #ubuntu
KamionKeybuk: certainly some nCipher people are a bit worried about the whole thing ...01:13
Keybukodd really, algorithms like that are only useful until their broken; and it's inevitable that they'll be broken eventually01:14
mdzthat's true of all known cryptosystems, no?01:14
Kamionyeah, MD5 has been rather extensively deployed in all sorts of places though01:16
Kamionno preimage attacks though, at least, which is something01:16
Kamionbut it's not such a big deal for things like the Debian archive01:17
Kamionthe adversary would also have to be able to upload to Debian/Ubuntu in order to do anything with a collision attack, and at that point they can exploit the system anyway01:17
mdzor get an upload sponsored01:18
Kamion(a binary-only upload ...)01:18
mdzwhy binary-only?01:18
mdztheoretically if they were clever enough they could produce a source package collision, no?01:18
Kamionreference to le flamewar du jour01:18
Kamionwhen sponsoring I generally rebuild the source package from the unpacked source tree, and gzip contains timestamps01:19
Keybukplus we carry/verify md5+size, rather than just md5 ... which has got to make colliding harder ?01:20
KamionI'm not sure that's really true01:20
Kamion(intuitive though it seems001:20
Kamionconstructing meaningful collisions of gzipped data is probably a lot harder than constructing meaningful collisions of uncompressed data though01:21
KeybukI don't really know, it could be that the collision is more likely to be the same size for all I know :p01:21
mdzthe example collision data was of equal size01:21
mdzyeah, was thinking about the gzip case01:22
mdzseems hard with embedded checksums01:22
KamionI think with the way the hash algorithm works it's a lot easier to construct a collision by taking one piece of data and twiddling a few bits01:23
Keybuknot to mention generating a collision where X is useful for a user and Y for a hacker <g>01:23
Kamionif you look at the example collisions they're almost identical save for a few bits01:23
Keybukthen again, I suppose noop->jmp is just a bit-twiddle01:23
Kamion"/usr" -> "/tmp" isn't that far01:24
Kamionor whatever01:24
hrdwrbobbut there's the likelihood of a twiddle that is useful/bad/whateever colliding01:25
hrdwrbobit's pretty slim01:25
hrdwrbobit's not 001:25
Keybukor more clever, if you could generate a source package which produced a binary guaranteed to have an md5 equal to a collision you've pre-prepared01:25
Kamionbinary .deb => control.tar.gz + data.tar.gz => timestamps01:27
Kamionnot clear that's possible in Debian01:27
Kamion(as stated, at least)01:27
Keybukyou've sufficient control over those it is01:27
bdaleKamion: question from right field.  for apt-secure, is there a particular tool typically used to generate the detached signatures, or is gpg typically scripted directly?01:28
Kamionhm, yes, debian/rules gets to run gzip, ok01:28
Keybukit wouldn't stand much scrutiny, but then half the sponsors don't bother01:28
hrdwrbobyou still have to be GOOD01:28
Kamionbdale: have to say I'm not sure, mdz would be your man01:28
bdalemdz: dude...01:28
=== bdale is giving a talk in a few hours on trust issues in Debian, and wants to get the facts right
bdaleprincipal objective is to tell folks how to get this right when they're building small repositories for locally generated packages01:30
Kamionnow, if it were me, I'd hack debsign, but ...01:35
KamionPackage: debsigs01:35
KamionDescription: applies cryptographic signatures to Debian packages01:36
Kamion debsigs is a package that allows GPG signatures to be embedded inside Debian01:36
Kamion packages.  These signatures can later be verified by package retrieval and01:36
Kamion installation tools to ensure the authenticity of the contents of the01:36
Kamion package.01:36
Kamionis that the standard approach? not sure01:36
mdzbdale: here01:36
mdzbdale: it's just a simple detached signature of Release01:36
bdalemdz: ok, cool.  any particular words of wisdom to add if I'm telling folks how to do this?  is apt-ftparchive the cool tool, I've always just used dpkg-scanpackages and dpkg-scansource ...01:37
mdzbdale: yes, apt-ftparchive is the way to go01:37
mdzbdale: it can generate Release files as well01:37
bdaleright.  ok, I'll go update that slide.  01:37
bdaleany known big problems with running apt 0.6 from experimental, or is it all as good as it seems?01:38
mdzbdale: you'll probably want to do a slide on apt-key as well01:38
mdzbdale: the biggest problem, as usual with these things, is key management01:38
bdalemdz: yes.  what's the right url for the current archive key to give folks?01:38
mdzif all you're doing is pointing at Debian, it ships with that key and it Just Works01:38
bdaleah, ok01:38
bdale"it" in this case is the 0.6 versions of the apt package?01:38
mdzyou can get the key via http somewhere, but I don't know the URL offhand and as I recall, it's buried somewhere on d.o01:40
bdaleno worries, if it's in the package (I couldn't recall), that's fine01:40
Kamionelmo: any chance of byhand processing of debian-installer/amd64, so that I can test the required debian-cd changes?01:40
Kamionlamont__: did you set up a daily-installer-amd64 build too, BTW?01:41
lamont__Kamion: can do.01:41
lamont__Kamion: done01:42
Kamionis somebody actually fixing the evolution uninstallable?01:50
mdzevolution is uninstallable?01:51
Kamioncouldn't be bothered writing out the package names :-)01:52
mdzah, those are actually not part of the evolution{,1.5} source package I don't think01:52
tvon|x31Post-install I was able to install evolution1.5, but during install it failed01:53
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Kamionat the moment you have to do it using aptitude by hand01:54
Kamionwhich is annoying01:54
Kamionyargh, and you have to set the debconf priority if you do that ...01:57
=== Kamion hits enter lots
jdubthe installer is much faster on decent hardware ;)02:06
mdzjdub: bugs incoming02:06
jdubmdz: evo stuff?02:07
mdz-exchange and -webcal02:07
jdubneed the new version for those02:07
mdzthey break the desktop install02:07
jdubmmm, but i need the new version of evo and e-d-s02:08
jdubthom: around?02:11
mdzKamion: why doesn't evolution1.5 install on its own?  was it missing when the CD was built or something?02:11
bdalemdz: what's this about?02:12
bdalewartylog: GPG error: http://www.gag.com unstable Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 07DC563D1F41B90702:12
bdalewartylog: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems02:12
bdalegah, xchat substitution strikes again...02:12
mdzbdale: you are pointing at an archive with a Release file signed by a key that you haven't told apt to trust02:13
mdzit only trusts the Debian key by default02:13
bdalemdz: well, that ought to be the current Debian unstable Release file...02:13
Kamionmdz: works for me; do you just mean the way aptitude won't install anything if one piece of the task is uninstallable?02:13
mdz30B34DD5 is the current Debian one02:13
=== bdale goes to figure out what's wrong
mdzKamion: oh, so it's just fallout from the evolution-* uninstallability then?02:14
Kamionmdz: well, when I do it using aptitude by hand then I get evolution1.5 installed, so I guess so02:14
bdalemdz: installing apt 0.6.25 gave me this for a key:02:16
bdalepub  1024R/1DB114E0 2004-01-15 Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key (2004) <ftpmaster@debian.org>02:16
mdzah, right. sorry02:16
bdalemdz: so, I gather this means the apt pkg in experimental is actually out of date relative to the current key...02:16
mdzthat is the correct key02:16
mdz30B34DD5 is the 2003v2 key02:16
mdz1DB114E0 is the 2004 key02:16
mdzneither of those is 1F41B907, which is what the www.gag.com archive seems to be signed with02:17
=== bdale is scratching his head, becuase the Release* files on www.gag.com appear to be up to date as of 1 Sept
mdzced47e86013bedc052f5f2180131f523  /var/lib/apt/lists/debian_dists_unstable_Release.gpg02:18
bdalechecking local machine02:18
mdzmizar:[/var/lib/apt/lists]  gpg --verify debian_dists_unstable_Release{.gpg,}02:18
mdzgpg: Signature made Wed 01 Sep 2004 12:33:16 PM PDT using RSA key ID 1DB114E002:18
mdzgpg: Good signature from "Debian Archive Automatic Signing Key (2004) <ftpmaster@debian.org>"02:18
bdaleced47e86013bedc052f5f2180131f523  /var/lib/apt/lists/www.gag.com_debian_master_dists_sid_Release.gpg02:19
bdalemaybe that's not the file it's bitching about02:19
=== bdale ponders 'unstable' vs 'sid'
mdzI've never seen that fingerprint before02:20
bdaleon the other hand, that's the only Release.gpg file in my /var/lib/apt/lists dir 02:20
mdzmizar:[/var/lib/apt/lists]  gpg --keyserver keyring.debian.org --recv-keys 1F41B90702:20
mdzgpg: key 1F41B907: "Christian Marillat <marillat.christian@wanadoo.fr>" not changed02:20
bdaleI have one of Christian's repositories in my sources.list02:21
mdzon www.gag.com also, apparently02:21
bdalevia apt-proxy02:21
Kamioncan't we make apt report the path as well as the scheme+host?02:21
=== mdz gags, apt-proxy
=== bdale doesn't see a .gpg file though, so is confused
mdzKamion: we can, but it makes the output awfully unreadable02:21
Kamionthat always struck me as a fundamental UI crapness02:21
mdzbdale: the .gpg doesn't get moved into place if it's no good02:21
Kamionthe output is currently incomprehensible, which is worse I feel ...02:21
bdalemdz: aha02:22
bdalemdz: so, I need to give Christian's key to apt-key then...02:22
mdzgpg --export ... | apt-key add -02:22
Kamionat the very least error messages should be complete, even if you'd prefer not to change progress messages (which I can sympathize with)02:22
mdzKamion: they use the same method, which is the root of the issue I suppose02:23
bdalemdz: bingo.  thanks for the help.02:23
mdzKamion: pkgSourceList::Describe, I believe02:24
mdzer, pkgIndexFile::Describe02:25
mdzbdale: no problem02:25
mdzstring debSourcesIndex::Info(const char *Type) const02:26
mdz   string Info = ::URI::SiteOnly(URI) + ' ';02:26
mdzKamion: hmm, it actually does that explicitly02:26
mdzI bet the default status display wraps >80 characters if it does the whole thing, which would be why it was done that way in the first place02:27
=== lamont__ heads off to another school orientation night
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jdubmdz: okay, so;02:33
jdubmdz: fixing gnome-system-tools itself is going to be error-prone and time-consuming.02:33
jdubmdz: so i'm going to fix their launchers to gksudo first,02:33
mdzjdub: :-(02:33
jdubmdz: and fix other places where they're launched02:33
jdub(from the clock applet, netstatus applet, etc)02:34
mdzthat means the whole frontend would run as root02:34
mdzso it goes02:34
jdubi'll talk to garnacho about how to deal with this better in future02:35
jdubit's pretty obvious that implementing all of this within g-s-t is a bad idea02:35
jdubmdz: sound okay?02:36
mdzjdub: doesn't make my skin crawl, if that's what you're asking :-)02:36
jdubmdz: also, without samba, the windows networking section in g-s-t doesn't work02:37
jdubhow much do we care?02:37
mdzjdub: ick, why not?02:37
mdzI thought it basically just let you set your workgroup name02:37
jdub"You don't have SMB support installed. Please install SMB support in the system to enable file sharing in Windows networks"02:37
jduband wins server and so on, but samba needs to be there for that to work :)02:37
bdaleProvides: libapt-pkg-libc6.3-5-3.502:37
bdalelots of stuff wants -3.3 ... any reason not to hack in a second provide to shut it up?02:38
mdzbdale: yes, because they are incompatible02:38
mdzbdale: welcome to my personal hell02:38
mdzstuff should generally recompile cleanly against the new lib02:38
mdzat one point I was doing regular NMUs of libapt-linking stuff to experimental to keep up02:39
mdzbut it was a losing battle02:39
bdaleyeah, I bet02:39
mdzthe maintainer would upload a new version to unstable, and the one in experimental would disappear from the archive02:39
bdalemdz: so, I'm downgrading back to 0.5.27 for now... sigh02:44
mdzapt-get source -b is your friend :-)02:46
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bdalemdz: I'll try again when I'm not t-minus a few hours from needing my notebook for a talk...  ;-)  Like, next week.03:31
=== bdale wander off
tvon|x31ah, nm03:44
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tvon|x31unstable mono packages work in Ubuntu...without sucking in non-mono deps04:38
tvon|x31if...anyone cares04:38
jdubtvon|x31: cool04:40
jdubtvon|x31: we'll work out what we're doing with mono officially for hoary04:41
=== tvon|x31 nods
tvon|x31I realize there are bigger fish to fry at the moment :)04:42
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jdubdpatch is poo05:05
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tvon|x31Is gnome-system-tools slated to be patched to get around the root password (with some sudo setup)?05:47
hrdwrbob<jdub> mdz: fixing gnome-system-tools itself is going to be error-prone and time-consuming.05:47
hrdwrbob<jdub> mdz: so i'm going to fix their launchers to gksudo first,05:47
tvon|x31ah, nice05:48
hrdwrbobwell, not entirely optimal05:48
hrdwrbobbut yeah, the basic end user effect is it will work :)05:48
jdubdefinitely not claiming it's optimal05:48
tvon|x31'nice' == 'working' a lot of the time for me :)05:48
jdubcurrently wrangling gnome-cups-manager and libgnomecups to do the same05:49
jdubthough i might just be stuck with gksudo in the gnome-cups-manager launcher again :|05:49
jdubgnome-cups-add is fine05:50
jdubbut the 'become administrator' bit in gnome-cups-manager isn't05:50
jdubmdz: around?05:50
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mdzjdub: yep06:26
jdubmdz: might be wiser for pitti to look into the gnome-cups-manager issue06:27
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mdzjdub: I CCed him on the bug06:40
mdzsince he has already done some work with it06:40
jduboh, thought that was him being interested06:42
fabbionemorning guys06:43
lamont__mdz: what's the current thinking on ruby1.8?06:43
mdzlamont__: you requested a sync, and I approved it06:44
mdzthe rest is up to elmo06:44
=== lamont__ updates the whiteboard status, shaking his head at his memory
jdubwhy isn't contact-lookup-applet in the archive?06:44
mdzbecause it's only in experimental, and nobody requested that it be added to warty?06:45
jdubhrm, it's on germinate :|06:51
jdubwe're still manually syncing experimental stuff?06:51
lamont__jdub: all of the syncs are now manual...06:53
lamont__that is, nothing autosyncs for warty anymore06:53
lamont__since upstream version freeze... :)06:53
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=== lamont__ heads to bed. night all
fabbionenight lamont__ 07:10
pittimdz: still awake?07:20
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pittielmo: there?07:25
fabbioneoh finally i got my d-i test machine back07:45
=== fabbione tests crack of the day :)
fabbionei don't want to go to the dentist :((((07:56
fabbionei want to hack on X today :(((07:56
pittifabbione: Ugh, dentist? My condolence!07:59
pittifabbione: chmod 700 /dev/teeth? Then he cannot hurt you any more?07:59
fabbionepitti: i am not scared of the dentist or the pain08:00
fabbioneit pisses me off the time i have to spend to go there, get treated and come back08:00
fabbioneand the money i have to pay08:00
hrdwrbobyes, LOTS of money08:01
fabbionei consider myself lucky08:01
fabbionei had to do only a few holes and a couple of root canals (together)(08:01
fabbioneand today i only have to do the final refill for the root canals08:02
pittifabbione: this _does_ sound scary. I don't like dentists.08:05
pittifabbione: good luck!08:05
fabbionewell it's like opening two temporary holes and close them again08:06
fabbionebut thanks08:06
fabbioneDevelopers: Gnome 2.8 RC1 Released08:15
fabbionei expect seb to do a lot of uploads today :)08:15
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mdzpitti: yes08:23
pittimdz: In the meantime I wrote a mail on sounders about the sudo stuff.08:24
pittimdz: I looked at your patches, looks good.08:24
pittimdz: but why do you think snprintf is better than strncat?08:24
pittimdz: printf is quite expensive and has a lot more code than strncat, doesn't it?08:25
fabbionedaily is broken... evo needs to be fixed08:32
fabbionejdub: are you going to fix it???08:33
mdzpitti: snprintf operates in terms of the available storage08:41
mdzpitti: while strncat requires that you calculate it08:41
mdzso snprintf is less error prone08:41
pittimdz: okay; I already incorporated the fixes; I will also restrict it to the plugdev group in today's upload08:42
pittimdz: if we leave mount/umount unrestricted this does not really fulfill the SecurityPolicy because all users still can mount CD-ROMS (with are in fstab)08:42
pittimdz: s/with/which/08:42
mdzpitti: can't we stop adding CD-ROMs to fstab if we use pmount?08:43
pittimdz: of course we can; yesterday's upload added the CD-ROM file systems08:43
pittimdz: but before we actually do this, unmounting in Nautilus should work08:43
ik5pvxfabbione, running an upgrade from aptitude right now, X asked me what about my video card... I have not reinstalled the autodetection tools since the tests of 2 days ago08:44
ik5pvxI suppose this is a good thing08:44
fabbionehmmm 08:44
fabbioneit shouldn't ask on updates08:44
=== fabbione takes a note
ik5pvxafter those tests, I put back the working config and also restored the corresponding md5 in /var/whateveritis08:45
fabbioneyes.. that's not the problem...08:48
fabbionei missed a check in postinst08:48
fabbionethanks for noticing it08:48
danielsfabbione: 1792 is busted08:49
fabbionedaniels: you are busted08:49
fabbionei tested it08:49
fabbionetry before and after08:49
danielsfabbione: no it's not, my bad08:49
danielsi misinterpreted the ")08:49
fabbioneand tell me what is busted :)08:49
daniels(read "$(date "foo") ..." as "$(date foo")08:49
pittimdz: if you install pmount on a system without the plugdev group, what do you think should be done?08:51
danielsfabbione: sorry08:51
pittimdz: installation fails, unrestricted pmount, create group plugdev?08:51
fabbionedaniels: tsk :P08:51
cef_workdaniels: typical.. sometimes I do wonder how you actually write any code.. *grin*08:59
danielscef_work: ber09:01
mdzpitti: I need to go to sleep; let's talk about it in the morning09:08
pittimdz: good night!09:08
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ik5pvxfabbione, fwiw the config works as is09:31
fabbioneok thanks09:35
danielsfabbione: backporting the ati driver from x.org cvs this late in the game for r4xx support (or even just the relevant patch from ati); thoughts?09:42
fabbionedaniels: nope.. we are too close to release to introduce new bugs09:50
fabbioneit will hoary stuff09:50
danielssux :\09:52
danielswhat about the ati code drop only, which only introduces new code paths for new cards?09:52
danielswithout this, we don't have 2d support for new cards09:53
danielsi can see both sides, tbh09:53
fabbionedude.. no new untested code09:56
fabbioneit won09:56
fabbioneit won't get enough testing09:56
fabbionebut also.. discuss the issue with mdz09:57
fabbionebecause if there are important bug fixes than it's ok by me09:57
fabbionelater guys09:57
=== fabbione heads to the dentist
danielsbasically, it's new card support only: not touching existing codepath. it's r4xx (x800, pci-x cards) support. depends whether you think relatively untested (it'll be in the x11r6.8 release, due tomorrow) ati code or vesa is better :)10:02
danielsmdz: ^^ thoughts?10:02
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seb128Oskuro: here ?11:07
seb128Oskuro: 2 things11:09
thomjdub: yes ;-)11:09
seb128first I've a problem with OO.o because of the ca translation in a patch11:09
seb128which is not valid utf-8 and fuck the desktop file totally11:09
Oskurook, that's easy to fix.11:09
Oskurowell, nothing is valid utf here11:10
Oskurothere's a mixture of charsets11:10
seb128the only problem here is the ca translation for "calcul" (with some accents)11:11
seb128if I remove the 3 lines with this I can open it with gedit in utf-8 and the MimeType parser doesn't fail11:11
Oskurois "presentaci" ok where french reads  fr = "Modle de prsentation %PRODUCTNAME"11:12
seb128others translations are perhaps not utf-8 but they don't screw gedit :)11:12
seb128hum, I don't get the question11:12
seb128I'm extraction de oo.o source, a min11:13
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seb128Oskuro: still here ?11:21
seb128Oskuro: !!11:33
danielsseb128: ping11:33
danielsgreebo: dude!11:33
seb128daniels: I've seen your comment on the bug, let it open if you want but we have no build problem so that's no a priority for the moment (the hal support is not even turned on)11:34
danielsseb128: yeah, i'll downgrade severity11:35
danielsahr, normal will do just fine i think11:35
seb128and let Oskuro searching where is the problem :p11:38
greebodaniels: yo11:48
Kamionmdz: stopping adding /cdrom to fstab is non-trivially fiddly, because integration between d-i and base-config is involved there11:52
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jdubthom: hrm, yes to which? :)11:58
rossjdub: new install mockup in the mail to you11:59
jdubross: got it12:03
jdubross: will reply after dinner :)12:03
thomjdub: to being awake ;-)12:04
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jdubthom: ah :)12:04
crevetteHow to get the behaviour of password/sudo of a vanilla ubuntu applied on my debian 'ubuntued' ?12:06
thomjdub: what's up?12:06
pittiKamion: with the current pmount policy IDE CD-ROMs cannot be pmounted anyway because IDE devices are not "removeable"12:16
pittiKamion: I did not think about that this morning12:17
pittiKamion: so the CD-ROMs should stay in fstab until we change this policy12:17
jdubthom: i don't remember12:37
Mithrandirpitti: how about scsi devices?12:38
thomloser :-)12:38
pittiMithrandir: by now we only accept USB and FireWire12:47
pittiMithrandir: But I just made an interesting discovery: from kernel 2.6.8 on, there is a /sys/block/*/removeable file12:47
pittiMithrandir: of course we accept SCSI devices that are actually USB devices12:48
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seb128is ubuntu-artwork supposed to be a debian native package ?12:54
Oskurosounds like a debian native package to me12:55
thomseb128: that sounds reasonable12:56
seb128ok, because it has no orig.tar.gz but the version number is 0.1-1412:56
seb128that's not coherent12:57
OskuroI would make it 0.1.1412:57
seb128ok, I'm going to do this, thanks12:58
Mithrandirpitti: ok.01:01
thomKamion: i think pbbuttonsd has a library, i believe01:01
thomwow, i sound really sure of that01:02
Mithrandirthom: I think you forgot "possibly" or "maybe" in your sentence.01:02
jdubseb128: don't depend on suede-icons though01:09
seb128jdub: why ?01:10
seb128jdub: we got 2 reports in one day because of "paper icons"01:10
jdubyeah, but that's not the right fix01:10
jdubi'll upload tonight01:10
seb128what's the right fix ?01:10
seb128it's fair to get the artwork depending on an icon theme01:10
jdubyes, but we don't want suede icons in ubuntu :)01:11
jdubthe right fix is to fix the theme definition fallbacks01:11
seb128it fallbacks on hicolor I think01:11
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=== SteveA wonders why the Gossip window as the title "imendio gossip"
thomimendio is the company that wrote gossip02:10
SteveAok, that figures02:11
SteveAI thought my l10n had gone wrong02:11
SteveAand was telling me something in spanish / latin / italian ;-)02:11
Kamionaha, base-config's pkgsel error path is much nicer now02:19
OskuroIt's not very good looking, that imendio branding.02:21
Oskurobut oh well.02:21
OskuroI considered not adding it in the ca translation. :) But that's evil.02:22
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fabbioneKamion: in today's install i noticed some errors while base-config was starting, but i could catch them02:34
fabbioneKamion: i think it was something about perl02:34
fabbionebut i really can't be sure02:34
Kamionyes, I've noticed those, I transcribed them once02:37
KamionUse of uninitialized value in join or string at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/DbDriver/Stack.pm line 83.02:37
KamionUse of uninitialized value in exists at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Template.pm line 66.02:37
KamionUse of uninitialized value in exists at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/DbDriver/Cache.pm line 29.02:37
KamionUse of uninitialized value in exists at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Template.pm line 66.02:37
KamionUse of uninitialized value in exists at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/DbDriver/Cache.pm line 29.02:37
Kamionjoeyh and I think it's something to do with the debconf database not being set up properly yet, but we aren't sure02:37
Kamionit's hard to catch because at least four of them go away after base-config runs :(02:38
Kamionshould the pop-up text on the Help button say "Get help with Ubuntu" rather than "Get help with GNOME"?02:39
fabbioneKamion: ok..02:39
Kamionhm, and Firefox starts up with the lower panel overlapping it by default ...02:40
fabbioneyou can still stick a sleep before base-config runs02:40
fabbioneand see what happens.. do you want me to do it?02:40
Kamionif you like02:40
Kamionyou'll have to perl -d your way through debconf, though, I suspect02:40
fabbioneKamion: well i can grab the errors, but my priority is to fix some more bugs in X and fix evo build-dep02:41
fabbionejdub: dude?02:41
Kamionfabbione: it's ok, I've got the errors02:41
fabbioneok than02:41
Kamionyou get the first error if you invoke 'base-config new' again, but not the others02:42
fabbionebut it's the first time i notice them02:44
Kamionpresumably because it's set up the debconf database by after that02:44
Kamionoh, it's been there for some time, I've seen it ...02:44
Kamionok, so at least the first one is from debconf-copydb02:45
Kamionaha, removing /var/cache/debconf/* reawakens the errors02:45
KamionI'll do a fresh install, make sure base-config doesn't get to run, and try it by hand02:46
fabbionelib64 aren't installable in warty02:46
Kamionelmo: is katie configured to be happy to e-mail anything@canonical.com?02:50
fabbioneok.. evolution-webcal is fixed02:56
fabbionethe other one it's also a FTBFS02:56
fabbioneso we need jdub for it02:57
fabbioneMithrandir: for / on lvm2 on raid, my best guess is lvm2.02:59
fabbioneMithrandir: but i will check it, if you didn't do it already03:00
rossis there a schedule for another test CD shortly?03:03
=== ross reads schedule
Kamionfabbione: aha, I see the problem03:12
seb128fabbione: jdub is waiting for the new libsoup/gtkhtml/evolution packages to fix evolution-*03:14
seb128fabbione: I was kind of waiting for kitame packages in debian to spare some work, usually he packages them pretty quickly03:14
Kamionfabbione: base-config needs to have entries in debian/templates for all the questions whose values it copies from the d-i cdebconf database03:15
KamionYA base-config upload coming up03:16
Kamionwas missing ubuntu/install-type03:16
=== HcE_ is now known as HcE
Kamionross: this coming Monday (in theory; might end up being Tuesday)03:18
Kamionif all the uninstallables are fixed by Monday it'll be then :-)03:18
rosswe might roll it onto another machine or two here03:18
rossi take it the gksu/sudo magic will still handle the case where normal users don't have any sudo rights?03:19
rossnormal users here are *not* getting root access :)03:19
Kamionif they don't have sudo rights, gksu won't let them in ...03:19
rossat the moment pressing synaptic calls gksu which asks for the root password03:20
rossi understand this is changing to asking for the users password for sudo03:20
=== HcE prods Mithrandir
fabbioneKamion: ahhhh i see..03:21
fabbioneseb128: well the problem is that warty is not installable atm.03:21
fabbioneseb128: and all dailys are crack03:21
fabbioneat 2 weeks from release we can't really wait too long03:21
seb128fabbione: outch, ok03:21
fabbioneevolution-webcal is fixed.. a recompilation was enough03:21
fabbionejust to fix the dependencies03:22
KamionI can roll a daily which does the drop-to-aptitude thing, which is less bad03:22
fabbionebut the other one is FTBFS03:22
Kamionwell, I can once some buildd uploads it, that is03:22
seb128I'll try to update evolution this afternoon03:22
fabbioneseb128: ok thanks.03:23
fabbioneoh and hoary season is open from yesterday :-)))03:23
=== fabbione changes apt lines :P
Kamionhoary Packages files look empty to me03:24
fabbioneKamion: i was kidding.. really03:24
fabbionebut yes.. they are empty...03:25
fabbioneelmo: is there any reason for that?03:25
HcEanybody knows about a ftp-mirror to the sounder-test7?03:32
HcEpreferably in Norway03:32
HcEMithrandir machine perhaps :)03:32
fabbioneHcE: there are no official mirrors atm03:33
HcEfabbione: I know, but AFAIK Mithrandir got the .img on his computer03:33
HcEMithrandir: don't need you mirror now, finnaly got the image down03:53
SleepBoBjdub: why is mp3 encumbered?04:11
Kamionmp3 is patented up the wazoo04:11
SleepBoBas far as I was aware playback was not particularly encumbered04:13
SleepBoBbut encoding was a problem04:13
SteveAf'hofer want money for playback software.  they have a webpage listing their rates.04:14
SteveAless money than for encoding04:15
SteveAbut still...04:15
SleepBoBWe (and Thomson) have (as far as we can determine, of course) unavoidable patent rights on Layer-3 encoding and decoding. We just are not enforcing the decoder rights on decoders which are software only and have been written by some freeware author (i.e. are freeware). Please understand that this sentence does not mean that I give an implied decoder license to everybody writing freeware code, I am not in the formal position to do this.04:15
SleepBoBthough that's from 199804:16
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KamionSleepBoB: right, Debian are probably reasonably OK, but we're actually backed by money that it would be worth Fraunhofer's time suing for04:21
SleepBoByeah just curious about the exact legalities04:22
SleepBoBit seems sort of similar to the prism thing04:22
SleepBoB'we probably won't sue you'04:22
SleepBoBwhere it's not worth the risk04:22
Kamionalso we don't want to screw over potential commercial derivatives of us04:23
SleepBoBsoftware patents make bob angry :(04:23
fabbioneseb128: pinf04:31
fabbionef = flood :-)04:31
seb128ponf ? :p04:34
fabbioneseb128: gnome-games04:34
seb128yes ?04:34
fabbioneiagno claims to have network support04:34
fabbionehow is it supposed to be configured?04:34
seb128good question ...04:36
fabbionei guess the same goes for other "standard" gnome games04:36
fabbioneor goodies04:36
seb128"The game server for iagno is now04:36
seb128available for local use, it can be found in the libgames-support04:36
seb128the content of this dir is not build, perhaps a missing configure flag04:38
lamont__mdz around?04:42
lamont__./me thinks the author of 972 is on crack - non-world-readable homedirs is the answer he's looking for, not a different default umask04:43
thomlamont__: +104:44
Kamiongod yes, he's mad04:54
elmohaha, jari alto's famous04:56
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Hrdwr_BoBctrl+x is not cut in xchat.04:59
seb128in the text entry section ?04:59
seb128it is here04:59
Hrdwr_BoBmaybe I have a slightly old version05:00
lamont__fabbione: nvidia-kernel?  puke05:00
seb128afaik it works for ages05:00
Hrdwr_BoBmaybe I wasn't focused correctly in the text entry section, but it quit :/05:01
lamont__Hrdwr_BoB: that's a feature. :-)05:01
fabbionelamont__: that's what debian does..05:01
fabbionei don't want a nvidia kernel05:01
lamont__fabbione: even if mdz didn't kill you, I would....05:02
lamont__I agree 1000%05:02
fabbionelamont__: probably the easiest is to just compile locally the module and make a deb out of it05:03
fabbionesince it needs the running kernel and all that nice crap05:04
=== lamont__ needs to help his wife take a car to the mechanic
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Hrdwr_BoBIf there was no users - the fact that mail was broken wouldn't even matter.05:22
Hrdwr_BoBand with that, I bid you goodnight05:23
thomwhich other binary kernel modules do we have?05:24
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fabbioneno idea.. afaik only the nvidia05:32
fabbionethat needs manual compilation on i386 and amd6405:33
fabbionebecause it needs the running kernel05:33
fabbionebecause it needs to be compiled on the running kernel05:33
thom'swhat i thought05:33
thomwhy is mark claiming otherwise05:34
fabbionewe need to take a look at how debian does05:34
fabbionethom: no idea...05:34
fabbionewe also decided not to ship binary drivers..05:37
fabbioneand stick them in restricted05:37
fabbioneon fresh install is impossible for me to know that the nvidia driver will be eventually installed05:38
fabbionepossibly a "wrapper" driver could do05:38
rossso why is warty "ubuntu 4.1" in the login prompt?05:38
fabbioneif it finds nvidia than goes for it05:38
thom2004 1005:38
rossi see05:38
thomnext will be 5.4 :-)05:39
rossseems like a lame excuse for a crack-brained versioning scheme to me05:39
rosshp's metacity versioning was far better05:39
thomrandom numbers05:39
rossfibonacci series05:39
spivross: Two version "1"s? ;)05:40
rossspiv: early versions were unreleased, i guess one of those was the first "1"05:41
Keybukross: it's Mark's versioning scheme05:43
MithrandirHcE: you don't make sense, but I guess that's ok.05:44
Keybukisn't it 4.10 anyway?05:44
HcEMithrandir: do you have a ftp/apache running on your machine at school/samfundet with sounder images?05:45
MithrandirHcE: I'm rsyncing it down to vawad now, but the wlan here sucks a bit.05:46
Mithrandironly 250kB/sec.05:46
Mithrandirso ~30 minutes05:46
HcEMithrandir: ok05:47
HcEMithrandir: I got the image burned already now05:47
Mithrandirok, I'll just stop it, then05:47
Mithrandirno use in wasting precious battery on that05:47
HcEMithrandir: by a pentium-m laptop :P05:48
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MithrandirHcE: I'm going to get an X40 for xmas, I think.05:48
Mithrandirwith all the extra batteries I can get my hands on.05:48
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rossman, i'd love it if ubuntu asked "do you want to allow ldap logins" on install, and magically fiddled nsswitch/pam.d05:55
tvon|x31I think fedora allows fairly simple setup of things like that on install05:55
tvon|x31Granted I've never actually tried it beyond clicking a few buttons to see what it asked for next05:56
rossthe pam.d fiddling isn't totally trivial, which is the annoying part05:56
thomtvon|x31: i've never seen it work right, plus there are 3 ldap.conf uder /etc in fedora06:00
npmccallumdoes james henstridge idle in here?06:04
thomdon't think i've seen him here, #warthogs or #g-h is probably a better bet...06:06
Keybukno, I think he tends to /quit anyway06:06
Keybukhe's on .AU time, so it's about 3am there06:06
npmccallumKeybuk: with English becoming such a universal language, we should just switch everyone to EST as well ;) (JK!!!)06:27
thomwell, since it's English, we're sorted. Universal time is GMT :P06:28
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Keybukthom: and what time (GMT) did you get up? :p06:32
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tvon|x31Should gnome-vfs have hal support?07:07
seb128we turned it off07:10
seb128some serious issue with it and no real benefit07:10
=== tvon|x31 nods
pittimdz: I fixed jackd/jackstart. Want to take a look at the interdiff before I upload?07:37
pittimdz: http://www.no-name-yet.com/patches/jack-audio-connection-kit.fix-capabilities.diff07:46
mdzpitti: ok, will do08:05
mdzpitti: looks good to me08:06
mdzlamont__: ping08:08
pittimdz: regarding pmount, I lied this morning: it is not currently possible to pmount CD-ROMs since they are usually IDE devices which we don't consider removeable08:16
mdzpitti: ah08:16
pittimdz: one thing that could help comes with kernel 2.6.808:16
mdzpitti: have you tested the 2.6.8 kernel yet?08:16
pittimdz: there are now files /sys/block/whatever/removable :-)08:16
mdzI posted information to the sounder list08:17
pittimdz: not the ubuntu one; is there already a ppc build?08:17
pittimdz: I currently run upstream08:17
pittimdz: we could extend the policy of pmount: if removable exists and contains 1, we could allow the pmount. What do you think?08:17
mdzpitti: no, the powerpc build is not available yet08:18
pittimdz: but eventually we will ship 2.6.8 with warty, will we?08:18
pittimdz: the problem is that for finding this removable file, a lot of new code had to go into pmount since then it needs to recursively scan the whole /sys/block hierarchy08:19
lamont__mdz: yo08:19
pittimdz: I'm almost apt to say 'let CD-ROM stay in fstab and handle this in Hoary'...08:19
mdzlamont__: what's the story on those tetex bugs?  I thought we synched those08:20
mdzpitti: that sounds like a reasonable approach08:20
pittimdz: I agree. Especially because Kamion said that removing CD-ROMs from fstab is not as trivial as it sounds08:20
lamont__mdz: I was working on looking at them to confirm that they were really dead before I closed them.  I'll force it above the cutline after my late lunch today.08:21
=== lamont__ has a 1PM appt
lamont__I also get to figure out how to pick up the horse from the hospital today08:21
Keybukgah, warty is spoiling me ... I was getting angry at my desktop for not showing me appointments in the clock calendar08:26
Keybuk(it's running just Debian unstable)08:27
=== glyph [~glyph@h00095bd2b849.ne.client2.attbi.com] has joined #ubuntu
lamont__Keybuk: the clock calendar - is that evo, or something else that's doing that?08:38
Keybukit's useful08:41
KeybukI can click on Sunday ... and guess what it says? :p08:41
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-24-55.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
kagouhi everybody08:53
seb128hey kagou 08:54
kagouhi seb128 :)08:55
kagoufrontends configuration for Internet access are planed ?08:55
pittinpmccallum: Did you already upload the pmount-enabled gvm?08:59
mdzpitti: yes, he did09:00
mdzpitti: http://rince.africaninspace.com/mailman/listinfo/warty-changes09:01
pittimdz: i'm getting the digests, but cannot remember seeing it09:01
mdzkagou: there is a network configuration tool already, though it may not be so featureful yet09:01
pittimdz: thanks09:01
mdzpitti: people still use digest mail? :-)09:01
kagouyes mdz. Gnome network tool wozard complain about no installation of wvdial by default09:02
kagouand no entry for a pppoeconf hacked to use gdialog insteat whiptail09:03
seb128oh yes, the ppp stuff uses wvdial09:04
kagouseb128, i have re tested my smb share access problem . With or without .... (you ?!) smbfs, i can't enter in shared dirs09:06
kagoui don't know how to see debug message for this problem09:06
seb128-> query09:07
=== spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionnpmccallum: hm, that eject change is going to need some testing to make sure it doesn't break d-i09:10
Kamionactually, it will break d-i unless pmount is moved to Base09:12
Kamionmdz: ?09:12
=== Keybuk [scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
seb128Kamion:  the debian d-i business card (rc1) for ppc is known to have some problems in the base packages ?09:14
Kamionnot sure, TBH dealing with warty d-i has left me with not a lot of time for upstream ...09:15
Kamionbusinesscards are notoriously unreliable across archive changes though; try a netinst instead09:15
seb128a french gnome guys has some problems with it: http://dejean.benoit.free.fr/tmp/SargeNetinstall-BzCardRC1-PPC32/IMG_1180.JPG09:16
Kamionthose errors are totally harmless09:17
Kamiondebootstrap always does that, it's part of life when you're installing Essential stuff09:17
Kamionthere's a reason that stuff is on tty3 and not shown to curious users by default :)09:17
Keybuk*nods* note the "but co09:18
seb128he he :)09:18
Keybuk*nods* note the "but configuring anyway as you suggest" and "ignoring pre-dependency problem" :p09:18
Kamionif it fails anyway, it'll be for some other reason09:18
seb128BTW the install is failing, i'm asking for details09:18
seb128he'll try with a netinstall09:18
Kamionthere may well be other problems that actually matter, certainly09:18
seb128the final errors are here09:19
Kamionah, right, that's normal archive bitrot09:20
Kamionthe problem is that businesscards include debootstrap-udeb but not the rest of the base system, so if the base system changes in ways that require debootstrap changes then you're stuffed09:20
seb128he get a red screen about deboostrap failure 09:20
Kamionthe netinst will be fine.09:20
seb128oh ok09:21
seb128thanks !09:21
npmccallumKamion: pmount just wraps mount, so long as you are a. root or b. have the device in fstab it should be fine09:24
npmccallumKamion: pmount also gives you other priviledges, like mounting removeable non-fstab devices as non-root09:25
Kamionnpmccallum: that's not my point at all09:26
Kamionas previously mentioned, if you change the dependencies of packages in Base you have to tell me so that I can update debootstrap and debian-cd, otherwise CD images break.09:26
Kamionand you probably ought to get an ack from mdz for that, since he seemed unsure about moving pmount to Desktop ...09:27
Kamionhence why I asked after I spotted the changelog entry :-)09:27
Kamionalso, I wonder if this will break the udeb09:28
Kamionsince there's no pmount in d-i09:28
Kamionperhaps the location of umount should be made a #define so that it can be different in the .deb from in the .udeb; at any rate, I think it needs discussion ...09:29
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-254-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu
sabdflhey warthogs09:30
Keybukevening boss09:30
sabdflshould i have instant auto-mounting usb drive nautilus-showing happiness?09:31
pittisabdfl: actually yes, if you use the latest packages09:31
=== HcE [~hc@66.80-202-212.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu
sabdflhmm... seems my upgrade missed gvm and pmount, will try again09:32
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-254-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu []
Kamionmobile sabdfl09:33
HcEwere going for a disconnect, and ended up doing a /quit09:33
thommdz: agree with sync of tetex-base09:35
mdzKamion, npmccallum: when I looked at the eject upload, it did not look like it depended on pmount. did I miss something?09:36
mdzg-v-m depended on it, but not eject09:36
=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
Kamion-Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}09:37
Kamion+Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, pmount09:37
Kamion-                         execl("/bin/umount", "/bin/umount", fullName, "-n", NULL);09:37
Kamion+                         execl("/usr/bin/pumount", "/usr/bin/pumount", fullName, "-n", NULL);09:37
Kamion                  else09:37
Kamion-                         execl("/bin/umount", "/bin/umount", fullName, NULL);09:37
Kamion-                 fprintf(stderr, _("%s: unable to exec /bin/umount of `%s': %s\n"),09:37
Kamion+                         execl("/usr/bin/pumount", "/usr/bin/pumount", fullName, NULL);09:37
Kamion+                 fprintf(stderr, _("%s: unable to exec /usr/bin/pumount of `%s': %s\n"),09:37
Kamion(remind me why pmount doesn't divert mount?)09:38
Keybukok, so maybe I'm being thick here, but how do you mount a cd drive now?09:38
pittiKamion: because it cannot do the root tasks of mount09:38
Kamioncan't/doesn't it call mount for that?09:38
pittiKamion: it is a wrapper for users, no replacement09:38
Kamionit could call mount.real or whatever09:38
Kamionhm, ok09:39
mdzKamion: yes, it is actually a bit higher level than mount09:39
mdzno need to duplicate handling of mtab, etc. either09:39
pittiKamion: it could be a diversion, but wouldn't that create confusion?09:39
Kamionpossibly; I think I'm persuaded it's not important for the moment, though09:40
mdzKamion: which version of eject is that from?09:40
Kamionmdz: 2.0.13deb-6ubuntu109:40
mdzit's only the udeb09:40
Kamionuhhh ... that's even worse09:40
mdzwhich begs the question...09:40
Kamionmdz: quite :-)09:41
mdznpmccallum: ping09:41
Kamionin general please can people talk to me if they're unsure about udebs; I'm happy to offer advice about what's safe/unsafe09:41
mdzI think it was just a simple mistake of looking at the wrong stanza in debian/control09:43
Kamionoh, sure, but just a general remark :)09:43
Kamioneject.c affects eject-udeb, anyway09:43
npmccallummdz: yeah, I actually caught it just after the upload09:44
mdzI'm fixing it now09:44
npmccallummdz: I've been waiting for the source package to enter our archive before a new upload09:44
Kamionso, should I make that debootstrap change?09:44
mdzsince I saw something else I wanted to change anyway09:44
mdzKamion: no09:44
Kamionmdz: by "fixing" do you mean moving the dependency to eject, or removing it altogether?09:44
mdzKamion: removing the dependency and having it fall back to standard umount09:45
Kamionmdz: ah, good09:45
Kamionok, I'll butt out then09:45
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-254-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu
sabdflno joy09:45
pittisabdfl: I just tried it myself, does not work for me either. Funny, it worked with Nathaniel's test package09:46
pittinpmccallum: I just plugged in a normal USB stick with a partition, it appears in HAL, but nautilus does not do anything. Is this really the same package you announced for testing in your homedir?09:47
mdzthe one from npmccallum's home dir worked for me as well09:48
mdzhaven't tested the one in warty yet09:48
sabdflnpmccallum: any other changes from the test package in your homedir?09:49
mdzhmm, doesn't seem to be working for me09:49
Keybukme neither09:50
mdzhmm, hal is not running09:50
mdzKeybuk, sabdfl: adduser <you> plugdev09:52
pittinpmccallum: at least one good piece of news: still remember my partitionless USB stick? it doesn't work with sid's hal, but does with Warty's09:52
mdzlog out, log in, try again09:52
pittimdz: Geez! I even wrote a mail about it and forgot it myself.09:53
mdzpitti, npmccallum: works perfectly for me after adding myself to the plugdev group09:53
=== pitti fetches his brown paperbag
mdznow how do I unmount it from the GUI again?09:53
pittimdz: beep - next question09:54
pittimdz: Nautilus must be modified not to look in fstab, but in /etc/mtab09:54
mdzsounds simple enough09:54
Keybukso it doesn't unmount if you close the window?09:55
mdzKeybuk: no, it does not09:56
pittiKeybuk: this would be a nice feature, but other apps may still access it09:56
Keybukwouldn't that be the most logical thing ?09:56
mdzit would be nice if it would at least try09:56
Keybukwe've hidden the filesystem icons so well there'd be no other way to unmount it?09:56
mdzseb128: is that difficult to implement?09:56
pittiKeybuk: it would. If it works, then it shoudl be done09:56
=== Kamion attempts to test the cdrom-detect hdparm thing
pittinpmccallum: although hal shows a proper volume node for my partitionless USB stick, it is not recognized by gvm. Any idea?09:57
Kamiontesting changes to the initrd is a pain09:57
mdzKamion, pitti: is the initial user added to plugdev?09:57
pittimdz: yes09:57
npmccallumsabdfl: a new upstream release mad the patch slightly different, but basically the same09:58
Kamionyeah, pitti did that earlier today09:58
Keybukpitti: this is what I get ...09:58
pittiKamion: yesterday :-)09:58
Keybuksyndicate scott% pmount sda109:58
KeybukError: could not determine real path of the device: No such file or directory09:58
Keybukzsh: exit 255   pmount sda109:58
pittiKeybuk: pmount /dev/sda109:58
Kamionpitti: oh, was it? sorry, I lose track of the days :-)09:58
Keybukpitti: ok that worked ... but it didn't do it automatically09:59
npmccallumpitti: I'm not sure what you mean by partitionless USB stick, it has to have a partition of some kind, no?09:59
pittinpmccallum: no, what for? Its just a waste of space09:59
mdzeek, the sed in warty also had that nasty fchmod bug09:59
Kamionon some USB sticks you just write the filesystem straight onto the device09:59
mdzgood thing we synched it10:00
pittinpmccallum: I just mount /dev/sda straight10:00
pittinpmccallum: do you only consider partitions?10:00
pittinpmccallum: CD-ROMs don't have partitions either10:00
Kamionmdz: yes, it just occurred to me earlier today (after joeyh asked about it) that that might be why our /etc/default/gdm was ending up mode 060010:00
SteveAgpg seems not to be set up knowing about keyservers10:00
mdzKamion: that was only filed as important(!)10:00
npmccallumgvm actually does the mounting and the loading nautilus/autorun/etc seperately10:00
mdzso it didn't get pulled into debzilla10:01
npmccallumif the device is mountable, gvm mounts it10:01
pittinpmccallum: the stick is not mounted10:01
npmccallumthen, hal notices the mounted status has changed and sends a dbus message, which gvm gets and does something with the new mounts10:01
Keybukok, hal is definitely seeing the device ... but not getting a window for it :(10:02
pittinpmccallum: so obviously it fails already at the first stage10:02
npmccallumpitti: do dbus-monitor --system and insert the key10:02
npmccallumpitti: tell me if you see a new device notification10:02
pittinpmccallum: I don't have this program???10:03
Keybukpitti: dbus-1-utils iirc10:03
pittinpmccallum: I'm right back, I have to go over to get network on my laptop. I left my crossover cable in Oxford10:03
mdznpmccallum: oh, gvm learns about mounts through hal?  I thought it just noticed /etc/mtab or /proc/mounts10:04
npmccallummdz: hal is the center for everything10:04
Keybuknpmccallum: ok, from hal-device-manager's stdout I get:10:04
KeybukDeviceAdded, udi=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/usbif_usb_4cb_100_1000_-1_Y-248^^^^^011116XFJX0017001826_010:04
Keybukbut nothing on the system dbus10:04
mdznpmccallum: all hail hal10:04
=== npmccallum quotes mdz and forwards it to the utopia list
npmccallumKeybuk: check out hal-device-manager -- does it have the right properties of something mountable?10:05
Keybuknpmccallum: how do I tell?10:06
pittinpmccallum: I did that. I just get the kernel notifications of the new device, but dbus-monitor does not print anything10:06
mdznpmccallum: if hal were lying about something, it couldn't cause gvm to do anything untoward, could it?10:07
pittinpmccallum: but I do see a node "OTI-6803 Flash Disk" (the device) which has one child "Flash Disk" which has a block.device property (/dev/sda)10:07
mdzit seems like hal is pretty gullible10:07
npmccallumKeybuk: block.is_volume, block.storage_device, info.capabilities = *block volume*10:07
Keybukdoesn't have any of those10:07
pittimdz: that's why pmount has to do its own checks, we cannot trust hal since users can overwrite all properties10:07
Keybukdoesn't even have an info.capabilities10:07
mdzpitti: right, but gvm listens directly to hal10:08
npmccallumKeybuk: that may be the problem, perhaps hal isn't aware of your devices10:08
Keybuknpmccallum: it's got a name for it10:08
pittimdz: I know, but even if hal tries to fool gvm, gvm cannot mount invalid devices10:08
mdzKeybuk: I think it gets the name as a string from sysfs10:08
Keybukmdz: the string's different10:08
mdzpitti: yes, it can't fool pmount, but gvm itself runs as a user, and so one user could forge information in hal which could be acted upon by another user automatically10:09
mdzpitti: I'm not sure what other actions might be taken by gvm apart from calling pmount10:09
npmccallumKeybuk: it may get the string from the device itself10:09
mdzthis issue isn't specific to our modifications10:09
pittimdz: that's the problem. hal must not be trusted10:09
npmccallumKeybuk: though, I'm not sure10:09
Keybuksyndicate scott% cat /sys/bus/usb/devices/1-1/1-1:1.0/host4/4:0:0:0/model10:10
KeybukFinePix 1400Zoom10:10
npmccallumpitti: hal (as it stands now) is very naive10:10
pittinpmccallum: must block.is_volume be 1 to be recognized by gvm? The property exists, but it is 0. Can this be the cause?10:10
npmccallumpitti: yes probably10:10
Keybukhal has "FinePix 1300 / 1400 / 4700 Zoom digital camera"10:10
pittinpmccallum: but it has the correct block.major and block.minor property values10:10
pittinpmccallum: info.capabilities is "block storage"10:11
npmccallumpitti, Keybuk: if block.is_volume < 1 i don't think gvm will mount it, let me check10:11
Keybuknpmccallum: there is no block.is_volume key10:11
pittiKeybuk: is this an USB stick?10:12
Keybukpitti: it's a digital camera that appears as a usb storage device10:12
pittiKeybuk: should work as well...10:12
pittiKeybuk: what's your info.capabilities?10:13
npmccallumKeybuk, pitti, mdz: if a device does not have block.is_volume = 1 (or doesn't have block.is_volume at all), gvm ignores it10:13
mdznpmccallum: right, but anyone can change that, can't they?10:13
pittinpmccallum: can we extend this to look at info.category or info.capabilities?10:13
Keybukpitti: that key doesn't exist10:13
Keybuknpmccallum: ok, so how do I fix hal?10:13
mdznever mind, different issue10:13
pittimdz: we should really only regard the hal information as hints10:15
npmccallumhal will have to be made aware of your device, have you guys tried the newest hal (either from debian or from cvs)?10:15
pittinpmccallum: as I already said, 0.2.97 is even a regression10:15
pittinpmccallum: whereas the Warty hal properly recognizes my USB stick, the sid version does not any more10:15
pittiKeybuk: do you have storage.drive_type10:16
pittiKeybuk: ?10:16
pittiKeybuk: do you actually have a proper volume node as a child of the actual device node?10:17
jdubhey hey hey10:17
npmccallumpitti: I believe that hal requires a partition table (it sounds like your device doesn't?)10:17
Keybukpitti: well, there's a /dev/sda110:17
sabdflmdz, pitti: I'm in group plugdev, it's still not working.10:17
=== jdub wakes up in a place he didn't think he went to sleep...
pittisabdfl: what do you use for testing?10:18
pittisabdfl: i. e. what kind of device?10:18
pittijdub: good morning! :-)10:18
npmccallumpitti: the storage.xxxx properties are only for the master device, (ie. /dev/hda) you don't get those entries in specific volumes (ie. /dev/hda1)10:18
pittinpmccallum: so maybe we could use the master device if no partitions are present?10:19
pittinpmccallum: if we drop CD-ROMs from fstab in the future (probably not for Warty any more), this must work anyway10:19
=== ploum [~ploum@191-225.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
npmccallumpitti: the real place this needs to change is in hal10:22
npmccallumpitti: not gvm10:22
npmccallumpitti: hal already handles cdroms seperately10:22
pittinpmccallum: okay. but how is hal supposed to handle that? Do the check if no partitions are present, and if not, set block.is_volume to 1?10:23
Keybukhrm, hal in unstable isn't any better10:23
Keybukwhat I don't get is why it it doesn't understand that its a storage device seeing as it's reacting to the hotplug scsi thingy10:23
pittiKeybuk: unstable's hal is even worse, it still runs as root10:24
=== MacRohard is now known as SNICKSERVUCKZ
pittiKeybuk: does your camera have partitions?10:25
npmccallumpitti: it can't do that because you may insert a device without any paritions on it or without direct access and it would still have block.is_volume = 1 (though you can't mount it)10:25
Keybukyeah, one10:25
npmccallumpitti: we actually need to profile these devices within hal10:25
pittinpmccallum: I thought only partitions get is_volume=1?10:26
=== SNICKSERVUCKZ is now known as MacRohard
npmccallumpitti: I believe cdroms get it as well10:26
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
npmccallumpitti: if there is a session on the disk that is10:26
pittinpmccallum: does it really hurt to try mounting the whole device if no partitions are present? If there's no filesystem, the mount will just fail10:27
pittinpmccallum: BTW, Warty's hal cannot detect file systems any more, I deprived it from group 'disk'10:27
=== pitti wishes that gvm would respond directly to hotplug events
jdubis there a dpkg-source "check me" function?10:30
Keybuk"check me" ?10:31
Keybukwhat do you wish?10:31
jdublike, verify the source packages against the dsc10:31
jdublooks okay10:31
Keybukjust unpack it?10:32
jdubhrm, didn't really want to unpack it10:34
jdubplus, that seemed to work10:34
jdubwhile the upload b0rked10:34
=== jdub rebuilt and will upload again
jdubwhoa, my laptop shipped10:34
mdzjdub: what did you decide on?10:35
thomjdub: you did the silly thing, didn't you? :-)10:35
jdubmdz: x30010:35
mdzjdub: I'm sorry :-(10:35
mdzjdub: I mean, I hope you like it :-)10:35
thomjdub: my condolences10:35
Keybukjdub: you have my sympathy10:36
jdubgrr, fabio10:37
jdubseb128: status on new evo bits?10:37
jdubif usplash uses kdrive10:39
jdubwe'll have reimplemented rhgb :)10:39
diemanis that post warty?10:40
tvon|x31I'm hoping usplash will end up a little nicer than rhgb10:46
tvon|x31rhgb fires up about 1/2 to 2/3 through the boot10:46
tvon|x31I've always been a bootsplash supporter, weather the code belongs in the kernel or not its much nicer for the end user10:47
=== tvon|x31 goes back to sleep
sabdflpitti: flash card watch, i think keybuk and daf have the same10:49
pittisabdfl: USB?10:49
pittisabdfl: Ah, I remember daf's one. I did not test it at the conference10:50
sabdflpitti: yess10:50
sabdflyes :-)10:50
pittisabdfl: does it have partitions?10:51
pittisabdfl: (or, at least, one?)10:51
sabdflpitti: yes10:51
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-1-88.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
pittisabdfl hmm. seems like hal still needs a lot of work. Can you see the thing in hal-device-manager?10:52
pittisabdfl: there should be a device node with a proper name with a child node which is a volume10:52
mdzMithrandir: ping10:54
mdzthom: have you tried an amd64 warty install?10:54
mdzmy first test has been, shall we say, less than successful10:58
[Clint] i heard a failure story too10:58
mdzthe base system seems to have installed successfully10:59
mdzbut grub doesn't work at all, so my system is left unbootable10:59
tvon|x31Thats not so good10:59
=== mark0 [marko@treason.nexuslabs.com] has joined #ubuntu
[Clint] mark0: what was broken about amd64?11:02
mark0ah right11:03
mark0it wouldnt complete the last filesystem11:03
mark0or was that debian..11:03
mark0lemme try it again11:04
=== jdub chuckles at mako's mame-blog
jdubmako: you're going to be like, the centre of the mame blogging world, dude11:07
sabdflpitti: yes11:10
sabdflOTI-6828 Flash Disk11:10
sabdflunderneath that is an icon with a twisty and no name11:10
pittisabdfl: that's the device node. does it have any children, which are volumes? With a rectangular gray box as icon11:10
mark0clint, 1st thing is it doesnt recognize the ethernet adapter11:10
sabdfland under neath that a similar icon with the word volume11:11
pittisabdfl: the volumes should have a property block.is_device11:11
sabdfland  block.is_volume11:11
pittisabdfl: sorry, block.is_volume11:11
pittisabdfl: is it 1?11:11
sabdflint 111:12
mark0FATAL: Error inserting floppy )/lib/modules/2.6.8-1-amd64-generic/kernel/drivers/block/floppy.ko): No such device11:12
pittinpmccallum: hmm. Any idea about sabdfl's odd device?11:12
pittinpmccallum: I thought that gvm uses devices with is_volume=1?11:12
[Clint] there's a floppy drive it won't recognize?11:12
mark0no there wasnt one plugged in11:13
mark0which i guess is ovious11:13
mark0so any chance i can put a network driver on that floppy11:13
[Clint] which nic is it?11:13
=== mako_ [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu
=== makoshark [~mako@] has joined #ubuntu
makosharkjdub: i just got home so i can now post roms along with descriptions11:15
makosharkmame is just the beginning, i wrote a dozen entries on the plane yesterday. only a couple about mame11:16
npmccallumsabdfl: can you file a bug on it with a screenshot of the properties in hal-device-manager?11:17
mark0clint, it hink its the VIA rhine II11:17
pittisabdfl: can you pmount it manually? I. e. 'pmount /dev/sda1' (it is sda1, I suppose)11:17
[Clint] mark0: does it show up in lspci like11:19
[Clint] 0000:00:12.0 Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102 [Rhine-II]  (rev 74)11:19
[Clint] ?11:19
mark0can i scroll back/11:20
mark0yeah it says vt6102 11:20
mark0on console f411:20
mark0missing modules11:20
mark0missing modules via-ircc, via-rhine, ide-mod, ide-probe-mod, ide-detect, ide-floppy, eth139411:21
jdubmdz: i've cleaned up the gstreamer plugins a bit11:23
jdubmdz: so jackd is no longer in desktop11:23
[Clint] it's kernel 2.6.7?11:24
pittijdub: Yeeeeaahh!11:24
mark0i think 2.6.8-111:24
[Clint] which image are you using?11:24
mark0ok i was able to make one / fs and install the base11:24
mark0couldnt make any swap11:24
mark04.10 11:24
[Clint] what happens when you try to make swap?11:26
mark0it wouldnt let me resize the partition11:26
mark0it was 22.3 gig and i trid to resizeit to 21.0gb11:26
mark0wouldnt do it11:26
mark0i probably dont need swap anyway11:26
mark0does linux still require it11:26
[Clint] no11:27
mark0ok cuz ive got 1.25 gigs of ram11:27
pittigood night everybody!11:27
mark0ok it says its installing 2.6.7-5-amd64-generic11:27
mark0it didnt install a boot loader11:29
mark0ah fuck!11:29
mark0and screwed up the windows boot11:29
mark0fuck fuck fuck11:29
mark0maybe cuz i told it to make hda5 bootable11:33
mark0which isnt possible11:33
[Clint] did your mbr get overwritten?11:35
mark0im reinstalling and gonna see if it lets me install a bootloader11:35
mark0if i can get into windows i can download those modules and hopefully mount ntfs11:35
mark0doh didnt offer to install boot loader11:36
[Clint] that's not good11:37
mark0its not on the menu either11:37
[Clint] I wonder where everybody went.11:38
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-254-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #ubuntu []
mark0so 30 more days in teh academy11:39
jdubjdub@lazarus ~/src $ gnome-cd11:43
jdub(gnome-cd:22354): GLib-CRITICAL **: file gstrfuncs.c: line 1743 (g_ascii_strcasecmp): assertion `s1 != NULL' failed11:43
jdubSegmentation fault11:43
jdubnice one11:43
mark0ok got windows to boot again11:43
mark0how do i install a better boot loader11:43
lamont__mdz about11:49
=== mako_ is now known as mako
[Clint] i dunno, what bootloaders are on the amd64 cd?11:51
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
mark0where on the cd should I look11:55
mark0grub is in /pool/local/g/grub11:56
mark0in .deb format11:56
mark0can i install that via the install shell?11:57
=== moquist [~moquist@pool-70-16-218-149.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu
moquisti'm trying to submit a bug in bugzilla, and apparently I have to enter somebody's email address in "Assign To".  Did I miss the memo about this?11:58

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