[12:00] then I'll go to the snow, and lug along this ridiculous dell laptop with windows on it with no battery [12:05] CD1/pool/main/i/id3lib3.8.3 -741 [12:05] CD1/pool/main/i/id3lib3.8.3/libid3-3.8.3_3.8.3-4_powerpc.deb -742 [12:05] CD1/pool/main/i/ifupdown -743 [12:05] CD1/pool/main/i/ifupdown/ifupdown_0.6.4-4.8_powerpc.deb -744 [12:05] that should do nicely [12:06] Kamion: let me know when there's a CD up and I'll give it a try; I'm quite interested to see the difference [12:08] will do, just waiting for my new archive-copier and base-config to hit the archive to save having to hack those in by hand [12:08] source is there so it'll be grinding through the lamont machine now [12:09] hm, I think that means it's time for a whisk[e] y [12:09] (haven't decided whether it's with e or without yet) === jdub fears current upgrade. [12:09] 139 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded. === ploum_ [~ploum@34-215.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu [12:11] Kamion: Scots prefer the spelling whisky; Americans follow instead the Irish spelling, so Kentucky bourbon is whiskey. [12:11] according to random google result [12:12] jdub: current daily seems to have the desktop icon breakage; is that fixed yet? [12:12] yeah [12:12] thank [12:12] s [12:12] i uploaded an ubuntu-artwork yesterday for that [12:13] and am working on very fresh nice pacakge for it [12:13] but i hate it how automake still doesn't handle trees of files [12:22] hmm, I wonder if I could use growisofs to swap a new version of grub onto a warty ISO [12:25] * Stopping Common Unix Printing System... [12:25] invoke-rc.d: initscript cupsys, action "stop" failed. [12:25] * Starting Common Unix Printing System... [12:25] invoke-rc.d: initscript cupsys, action "start" failed. [12:25] erk [12:30] gah, sudo with timeout=0 is ANNOYING [12:46] mdz: I know which is which, certainly :-) [12:46] mdz: I had been wondering whether to have Scotch or Irish [12:46] (Ardbeg, in the end, a rather fine Scotch.) [12:46] Kamion: ah :-) [12:47] I did not realize the distinction until I read that [12:47] while spelled differently, they sound the same when slurred to the bartender [12:47] i think the canadians do "whisky" too === npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu [12:56] npmccallum: cupsys dbus-1 fam [12:56] having problems with those [12:56] init scripts b0rked [12:56] jdub: file bugs [12:56] righto [12:56] hmmmm [12:57] it's not clear to me that the directory sorting stuff is having the desired effect on the .iso [12:58] the extent numbers look pretty much the same to me [12:59] will the dentry cache deal with it if I just ls all the directories first? [01:00] Kamion: maybe [01:00] a nice find+stat might do the trick [01:02] hell, just find -type f === Kamion goes to experiment [01:03] dpkg: warning, architecture `amd64' not in remapping table [01:03] hmmm? [01:03] Kamion: yeah, that's what I meant [01:03] any find command that needs a stat to work [01:03] jdub: can you give me any more info than that? [01:04] what info do you need? [01:04] Preparing to replace cupsys 1.1.20final+cvs20040330-4ubuntu8 (using .../cupsys_1.1.20final+cvs20040330-4ubuntu9_i386.deb) ... [01:04] * Stopping Common Unix Printing System... [01:04] invoke-rc.d: initscript cupsys, action "stop" failed. [01:05] dpkg: warning - old pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 [01:05] dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ... [01:05] * Stopping Common Unix Printing System... [01:05] invoke-rc.d: initscript cupsys, action "stop" failed. [01:05] dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/cupsys_1.1.20final+cvs20040330-4ubuntu9_i386.deb (--unpack): [01:05] subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 1 [01:05] * Starting Common Unix Printing System... [01:05] Kamion: grub-installer is missing from the amd64 CD; is that intentional? [01:05] invoke-rc.d: initscript cupsys, action "start" failed. [01:05] [01:05] and then it just sits there [01:05] (that's on apt-get install cupsys) [01:05] I can't get it to fail [01:05] jdub: do you have the latest lsb-base? [01:06] ii lsb-base 1.3-9ubuntu3 [01:06] yeah, its a dependency [01:06] jdub: sh -x /etc/init.d/cupsys stop [01:06] and/or start === mako_ is now known as mako [01:07] Kamion: that is, it's not on the CD at all [01:08] mdz: that looks fine [01:08] $? == 1 though [01:09] jdub: what is the last command executed? [01:09] ++ /usr/bin/tput hpa 87 [01:11] ooookay [01:11] that was a startling difference [01:12] $ ls [01:12] grub-installer_0.50ubuntu3.dsc grub-installer_0.50ubuntu3.tar.gz grub-installer_0.50ubuntu3_i386.udeb [01:12] mdz: not in the archive [01:12] despite [01:12] Package: grub-installer [01:12] Architecture: i386 hurd-i386 amd64 [01:13] I'm betting P-a-s is wrong [01:13] jdub: what is the result if you do echo $TERM? [01:13] lamont: yep, it is. could you add hurd-i386 amd64 to the grub-installer line in P-a-s, please? [01:14] jdub@lazarus ~/src $ echo $TERM [01:14] screen [01:14] i'll try outside [01:14] it works outside a screen [01:15] ok [01:15] try it in screen [01:15] but before you run the script set TERM=xterm [01:15] actually, set it to TERM=linux [01:16] works [01:16] Kamion: done - I assume that you'll poke elmo to freshen warty's PaS? [01:16] jdub: ok, we just need to filter out the TERM=screen setting [01:16] lamont: didn't know I had to [01:16] lamont: I'll remind him next time I see him [01:17] ta [01:17] Kamion: I think it's under the same freeze as the rest of debian stuff. [01:17] ah === lamont had fun brutalizing lockers today. With hammer, prybar, and pliers. [01:18] jdub: I'm going to close those bugs and open a new one [01:18] Kamion: does #1008 close with elmo sync'ing things? [01:18] Kamion: bug filed [01:18] npmccallum: ok, ta === jdub fears - lucky it was tested in screen... [01:20] mdz: will look at #363 again this weekend and figure out what was actually done in Debian, and how hard porting it over will be. [01:21] lamont: please do [01:22] lamont: CCed elmo on the bug relating to grub-installer [01:22] npmccallum: forcing the terminal type is not the right solution [01:23] npmccallum: what you need to do is fall back gracefully if _any_ of those commands fail [01:23] mdz: I know [01:23] mdz: I'm not going to force the terminal type [01:25] mdz: all that error checking is going to drown the performance of my initscripts! [01:25] npmccallum: ok, I must have misunderstood what you meant when you said we needed to filter out the TERM=screen setting [01:26] mdz: I just meant we need to check for it, but we should just check for a tput failure instead [01:29] mdz: i would like ubuntu-artwork to depend on gnome-accessibility-themes for a short period of time [01:29] mdz: though that conflicts with some of #501 [01:29] mdz: thoughts? [01:30] mdz: or, i can split the grub bit out into another package [01:30] (which seems a bit silly) [01:32] actually [01:32] not entirely silly === Keybuk [scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu [01:36] mdz: what do you want the script to do if it can't use tput? show [ ok ] /[fail] at the beginning of the next line? [01:36] lamont: think so; reassign to James? [01:37] Kamion: will do [01:37] npmccallum: maybe just fall back to something like the old-style output instead [01:37] that would be more readable than taking up two lines for every script === lamont wonders what he broke.. stick a dvd in, and it doesn't autoplay anymore. [01:37] likewise, inserting the CF card doesn't cause it to be recognized. [01:39] Kamion: thats a little difficult with the way it is currently structured [01:40] npmccallum: doesn't have to be exact by any means [01:40] * Starting foo... done. [01:40] ...done or ...failed [01:40] * Starting foo... failed. [01:40] npmccallum: it should just do something sane that doesn't require tput [01:41] displaying on the next line sounds fine [01:41] ok [01:41] if it looked like the above all the time, that'd be k-rad ;) [01:41] jdub: why would it need to depend on gnome-accessibility-themes? [01:41] jdub: no need to split the grub bit; I explained in the bug exactly how I think it should be solved [01:42] mdz: i want to inherit from an a11y theme [01:42] lamont: when do the BuildDI jobs run? [01:42] 06:05 machine-local (aka British) time [01:42] mdz: (the grub dir and image is going to look funny on other arches, nothing important, plus it would give us the base action while letting ubuntu-artwork depend on wacky gnome stuff) [01:43] jdub: I don't think the comment about GNOME and Base applies anymore [01:43] jdub: since we don't use the grub splash image [01:43] we don't even use it? [01:43] jdub: well, we won't when you finish with ubuntu-artwork and let npmccallum finish that bit [01:43] or is it done already? [01:44] which? [01:44] jdub: its not removed yet, but it needs to be [01:44] jdub: we decided that since the grub menu isn't even displayed by default anymore, it doesn't need a pretty background [01:44] lamont: good, so the upload I just made should easily make it [01:45] mdz: so we don't need the splash stuff in the package at all, and i'm free to depend on whatever i like? [01:45] Kamion: unless it needs by-hand loving, or is openoffice... :-) [01:45] jdub: 501 has to get fixed, cause otherwise removing grub-splash will break upgrades [01:45] jdub: you don't need to install the splash image at all, no [01:45] jdub: it still needs to call update-grub, as described in 501, so that the splash gets removed from menu.lst [01:46] lamont: just a little cdrom-detect [01:46] okay [01:46] so i just need the postrm [01:47] jdub: yes === jdub growls at mdz ;) [02:15] hrm [02:15] mdz: that didn't actually kill the splash image line in grub/menu.lst [02:15] splashimage=(hd0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz [02:16] jdub: why are you growling at me? [02:16] (the build-essential thing) [02:16] oh [02:17] jdub: running update-grub when the splash image is no longer present in the filesystem should remove it from menu.lst [02:17] if it doesn't, that's an update-grub bug [02:17] but I suspect that part works [02:17] erm [02:17] hrm [02:17] so it did manually [02:18] but not when postrm ran [02:22] that depends entirely on how the postrm is written [02:22] "postrm upgrade" will be run while the file is still there [02:22] "postrm remove" doesn't get run unless the package is removed from the system [02:22] postrm isn't enough to do the job [02:23] in fact, postrm isn't needed at all [02:23] postinst is where this needs to be done [02:23] postrm would only be needed if the package still provided the splash image [02:25] postinst should get an "if configure && dpkg --compare-versions && which grub then update-grub" bit [02:35] mdz: take a look at bug #1010 and tell me what you think if that output [02:35] what's the largest widescreen res we've seen? [02:36] 1400x1050? [02:36] 1200 on a dell [02:36] surely bigger... [02:36] 1920x1200 [02:36] jdub: all the ones we were able to collect in Oxford are in the xfree86 debconf list [02:37] npmccallum: fine with me; it doesn't matter much what it looks like as long as it works [02:37] the apple 30" will do 2560 x 1600 [02:41] want [02:41] someone mail me one of those [02:42] best monitor evar [02:42] npmccallum: is it impossible to get it onto the same line? [02:42] doesn't have to be right-justified or anything [02:44] Kamion: To get it on the same line requires tput [02:44] how come? have you already output the newline or something? [02:45] Kamion: yes [02:45] oh [02:45] I'm tempted to say "don't do that then", but I haven't looked at the code :) [02:45] Kamion: this is only the cases where tput doesn't work on the specified terminal and when /usr isn't mounted [02:46] Kamion: it probably isn't impossible, but makes the api wierd [02:47] Kamion: we'd have to make all the messages not output newlines and instead put newlines at the beginning of each message [02:48] Kamion: but then if text we can't easily control gets printed in the meantime, it will look funky [02:48] my expectation was that the newline would go at the end of [ ok ] [02:49] but I can see the argument about text you don't control [02:50] yes, a newline would go there. But what about other messages? We also have colord output on the left (at the beginning of the column) when something goes wrong, (so its easy to tell what exactly went wrong) [02:51] evidently I need to look at all this in more detail when I have time. :) [02:58] brb, reboot === StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu === npmccallum [~npmccallu@24-48-54-75.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu === Riff [~davyd@cook.theducks.org] has joined #ubuntu [04:24] gramps is quite funky [04:24] beats trying to draw charts out on paper [04:32] Ooh, it's Python too. [04:38] exhibited some slightly odd almost-crashy behaviour at one point [04:38] but seems mostly ok [04:46] jdub: can anything be done about famd running as root? [04:50] well, there's the replacement, gamin [04:50] but that's hoary [04:50] i don't think we can replace fam [04:50] but when we do, we can get rid of portmap too :) [04:50] s/replace/fix/ [05:37] holy crap people [05:37] normal human beings don't use gcc [05:37] it's totally irrelevant for the desktop seed [05:45] BONG [05:45] and with that, good night [05:46] ok, I take it back. she isn't ready to leave yet [05:47] seriously, we ship a lot of stuff in desktop that human beings don't use. it's infrastructure, and tools that let you get under the hood a little if you want to [05:47] the problem i'm finding [05:47] is that your argument is 'why not?' [05:48] when a long time ago we decided 'no' [05:48] my argument is that many of our users *today* expect it to be there [05:48] and it costs us *nothing* [05:49] 'expect it to be there' [05:49] i don't think that's true [05:49] when i install debian, i don't get a compiler [05:50] on most of the other distros, you have to check a checkbox to get developer tools [05:50] ??? [05:50] have you installed Debian recently? [05:50] you sure as fuck do [05:50] gcc is priority: standard [05:50] i never have :) [05:51] debian is of course a very different case [05:54] s/have :)/have had gcc by default on my debian systems/ === bdale [~bdale@rover.gag.com] has joined #ubuntu [07:43] bdale: hey dude :) how did the violin thingy go? [07:43] it's official [07:43] I don't think there is a single laptop I want to buy [07:43] Riff: x40? powerbook? [07:44] someone must have a laptop they like [07:44] daniels: I was looking at the X31 [07:44] but it doesn't have a Synaptic touchpad [07:44] yeah, synaptics touchpads are love [07:44] total crack, though [07:44] I had considered a powerbook, but running Linux on PPC makes you a second class citizen [07:44] http://www.communityguide.com.au/community.cfm?/bayside/profile/foodliquor/restaurants/226666/ [07:45] Riff: then, er, half of canonical are second-class citizens [07:45] daniels: lots of things are lacking due to supportability problems [07:45] iirc, bob2, elmo, limi, lulu, thom (although he is now x40-compliant), stub, kamion and a few others have them [07:45] as a result, I would be forced to run OS X on it [07:45] yeah, lacking the wireless would suck hard [07:46] Riff: i've just ordered a dell x300 [07:46] which isn't so bad, but kind of defeats the purpose [07:46] jdub: I dislike Dell immensely due to my bad experiences with them, as a result I haven't looked at their product range [07:46] perhaps I should [07:46] steven hanley had one [07:47] which i played with last weekend [07:47] it seemed pretty good [07:47] and the price was right [07:47] I hate their support line so much [07:47] really, my favourite brand is Toshiba, but all their current products are behind [07:47] seriously behind [07:48] mako and jane have a particular model of toshiba that i've seen around quite a bit [07:48] they just don't seem to have a sane offering on the market over here [07:49] they've got a few things in the US and UK [07:49] but even those aren't fantastic [07:55] daniels: I'm home, but the violin thing isn't until tomorrow... it's nearly midnight Fri night here now [07:55] bdale: oh right, neat [07:55] bdale: how was the rest of auug? sorry i had to dash off so quickly -- had a sister to collect from school and all [07:56] yo bdale [07:57] getting a mobile phone + deal ends up being harder than getting a laptop [07:57] mmm, grahame mentioned bdale was at AUUG [07:58] I'm also told I'm going to the AUUG meet here in Perth on Tuesday apparently [07:59] daniels: it was fun. I caught a couple interesting talks between interviews and customer visits, and it was good meeting a bunch of people I've known about for a long time and/or emailed, but never met. [08:02] badrock :) [08:02] er [08:02] bdale: rock :) [08:02] uh oh [08:02] daniels got some bad rock [08:02] jdub: it was pretty easy for me, although it took a turn for the worst when they asked me where i worked [08:02] NO MORE CRACK FOR YOU! [08:03] jdub: butbutbut [08:03] i want crack! [08:13] bdale: hey there.. long time [08:14] bdale: couldn't make it to auug unfortunately, otherwise would have said hello in person [08:15] cef: hi! oh well... [08:16] bdale: place I'm working as is moving offices.. and of course, I'm the poor sod that is organising the move [08:16] cef: been there... [08:16] as = at.. *sigh* .. my typing is getting worse === bdale is tired, but not sleepy, ergo up reading email [08:17] makes sense.. always a good thing.. though sometimes replying isn't always warranted *grin* [08:26] I still haven't found a laptop I want [08:26] why has noone made a laptop I want [08:42] cos you're a picky bastard? *grin* [08:45] yes, I think I am [08:57] Setting up gdm (2.6.0.3-1ubuntu12) ... [08:57] * Reloading GNOME Display Manager configuration... [08:57] * Changes will take effect when all current X sessions have ended. [08:57] ...done. [08:57] [08:57] hrm [08:58] [08:58] $ sudo /etc/init.d/cupsys restart [08:58] * Restarting Common Unix Printing System... [08:58] ...done. [08:58] === ploum [~ploum@44-214.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu [09:55] inetd needs to die! [09:55] you're not going to replace it with xinetd are you? [09:56] not me, no.. but unfortunately netbase depends on netkit-inetd, which imho is just stupid [09:56] (least in debian) [09:56] and without netbase, you tend to miss things like /etc/services, /etc/protocols, etc [09:58] but there is no reason for inetd on a desktop usually === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu [10:02] bugzilla upgrade eh? === pitti [~pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu [10:06] yep === justdave heads to bed so he can be awake then :) [10:24] cef: it handles useful things [10:25] most of the things in there should be disabled though [10:25] it does mean you can do things like run samba/apache unprivledged iirc [10:26] since inetd listens on the ports rather then the program itself [10:47] true, but it's slow at starting them [10:48] and it's started by default at boot, which imho is bad [10:48] should have an entry in /etc/defaults that you can enable/disable, and by default is disabled [10:49] erm, /etc/default/ even [10:49] cef: it depends on what you're after [10:49] I think for the desktop, having to fire up apache wouldn't be that big a deal [10:50] and apache could serve the load, then eventually the apache server will shut down [10:50] similarly for samba [10:50] I haven't looked into it much [10:50] it was more some random thinking I was doing [10:51] samba will have trouble keeping track of netbios machine names afaik.. so lookups could take significantly longer, or even fail (SMB/CIFS is a horrid piece of shit like that) === Riff thinks about it [10:52] if I was designing it, I would probably do a two stage system [10:52] involving a part that hooked into inetd and a part to hold state [10:53] both of them could run as an unprivledged user [10:53] but they would need some IPC lov [10:53] *love [10:53] it sounds shonkey [10:53] well you could seperate that.. run nmbd directly, and run smbd from inetd.. no reason you couldn't do that [10:53] the correct solution is to probably give the whole thing a sane privledge esculation model [10:54] like SElinux I guess [10:54] Theo Deraat wouldn't agree with me though apparently [10:55] the main problem is binding to the port. if you can get away from that, you don't need root === debianist [~konversat@DSL217-132-194-67.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu [10:55] hi all [10:55] morning [10:56] the morphix based livecd, when boot up on a dell inspiron 8200 laptop, uses only a small square of the screen, any clue? [10:57] centre/left-top/bottom-right ? [10:59] hrm, my stomach is grumbling [11:00] cef : you want coordinates? [11:00] :) [11:00] center [11:01] sorry about that, just got up :) [11:01] cef : go get some serials dude ;) [11:02] cef : I've seen this problem also in knpooix and mandrake move, could it be something unrelated to ubuntu ? [11:04] or something resulting from using morphix as the livecd base? [11:04] debianist: probably. most likely it can't detect the resolution the screen is doing, or it's using vesafb in eg: 640x480, and not scaling the screen to the full res (not that you want to do it that way, as it looks terrible) [11:05] cef : I thought also that this is the nvidia free driver problem, but after testing the drive on the debian sid I have on the same system, I was proven wrong. [11:06] both free and proprierity drivers work ok [11:06] yeah it's either x's resolution settings, or vesafb bugs [11:07] what happens if you use ctrl alt + or ctrl alt - ? [11:07] cef : i'd test it and come back to you , need to reboot into the livecd again :) [11:07] another thing, [11:08] HAL is not gnome specific right? It's a linux wide daemon? [11:08] cool.. also might want to grab a copy of XF86config-4 when you boot it too [11:08] you mean snapshot the autodetected X config file? [11:08] yup [11:09] ok, I'd save it to sid's partition and come back here tell you the outcome [11:09] HAL is on be default on the livecd right? [11:11] not sure if HAL is on the livecd.. haven't played with HAL at all myself === debianist is booting ubuntu livecd === debianist [~konversat@DSL217-132-194-213.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu [11:38] cef : back [11:38] cef : ok, trying to reset solution doesn't yeild nothing. seems like it's ignoring my keystrokes. [11:38] cef : i have all 4 XFree configs (.in also) [11:39] cef : my usb mouse wasn't detected / installed (noticed an entry on the Xfree86-4 file, but coudln't figure if this is the one it was using) [11:39] cef : correction, was detected (infra red light on and everything) however not responding. === stub [~zen@dialup-31.81.220.203.acc05-dryb-mel.comindico.com.au] has joined #ubuntu [12:10] cef ? === _KonvIRC [~konversat@DSL217-132-194-213.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu === debianist [~konversat@DSL217-132-194-213.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu === pitti [~pitti@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu === seb128 [~seb128@AToulouse-105-1-5-124.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu === ploum [~ploum@219-212.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu === savs [~savs@spc2-norw1-5-0-cust49.asfd.broadband.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu === ploum [~ploum@150-205.241.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu === doko [doko@dsl-082-083-132-200.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu === mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu === elmo_ [~james@83.216.141.215] has joined #ubuntu === wartylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu === Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Sounder CD 7 released | bug tracking at https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/ === Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Fri Sep 3 16:30:19 2004 [03:58] lamont: ping? [04:09] jdub: you forgot a b-d on cdbs [04:11] elmo_: just uploaded :) [04:24] argh, base installation broken [04:27] lamont: [04:27] Gnome Pilot 2.0.12 (Recompile no more) has been released: [04:27] Gnome Pilot Changes: [04:27] * Fix USB syncing (Frederic Crozat) [04:27] [04:27] ^ might be useful, not sure of the details though :) [04:32] Maybe it's related to http://bugzilla.ximian.com/show_bug.cgi?id=33749 [04:32] aka "USB syncing is totally and utterly completely broken" [04:33] i'm sure lamont hopes so :) [04:37] jdub: hey [04:38] yo [04:39]