=== tvon|x31 wonders why his modem has a tab in Volume Control
=== tvon|x31 also wonders why wireless signal strength is busted
tvon|x31Anyone have an idea how I could debug that? or where to even look?12:34
tvon|x31WIFI works fine, but signal strength has been broken for a while now.  Using the 2.6.8 right now, but it was the same with 2.6.712:35
tvon|x31ad-hoc vs managed12:38
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jdubtvon|x31: which wifi card/driver?02:17
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=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Sounder CD 7 released | bug tracking at https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Fri Sep 3 16:30:19 2004
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debianistmorning all10:04
debianisthey cef10:06
debianistI have some more issues regarding the livecd, should I address them or wait for the next livecd out of the daily snapshots?10:07
debianistbesides the reolution probem,10:07
debianistthe USB mouse was not operating. seemed to be recognized (According the X11 config files) and infra light was on etc.10:08
cefI've got no clue about the livecd.. you'd be best asking on the list methinks10:09
debianistis another team of people who produce the livecd?10:11
cefthe software is the same.. but the livecd's don't tend to contain what the standard installs contain.. and plus (and this is the big one) i'm not a developer10:12
cefI just know enough to be dangerous10:13
debianistoh ok. say cef, aren't they any netinst ubuntu images?10:14
cefdebianist: not netinst afaik.. netboot yes, netinst no10:15
debianistoh ok10:20
debianistthis channel is also used to communicate between the developers?10:21
jdubso the livecd is a bit old now10:21
debianisthi jdub :)10:21
jdubalex makes them, but he's only on one day a week atm10:21
debianistjdub, I can take over that , is this possible? (ofcourse I'd need slight direction for starters)10:22
debianistmaybe help him,10:22
debianistproduce livecds another day in a week or two :)10:22
jdubcef: contrary to convention, the livecd contains the entire desktop install ;)10:22
jdubdebianist: possibly a bit difficult at the moment10:22
debianistjdub : ok. I guess thing will get much clearer in 2 weeks or more10:24
debianisthttp://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/sounder-test/7/  holds a daily build? if not, where would I get it from?10:26
cefhrm, food10:26
jdubdebianist: navigate from /cdimage/10:27
debianistor grab http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/sounder-test/current/ ?10:27
debianistthere supposed to be the daily10:28
debianistok, nm I am downloading cdimage/daily/current/10:29
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jdubi'm so used to the ubuntu installer that d-i seems bizarre11:32
debianistjdub : oh goody, will I be surprised by the ubuntu installer? anxiuosly waiting for the download to complete..:)11:34
jdubit's a modified d-i11:34
jdubvery minimal11:34
jdubnot totally different :)11:35
debianistjdub : is it fb ? text ?11:35
Mithrandirmdz: awake?fb11:35
Mithrandirmdz: awake?11:35
Mithrandirdebianist: it's fb, but text.11:35
jdubdebianist: (same as d-i)11:36
debianistnot that I ever want it to be GUI , text is the best for a straight forward, no trick installer11:37
jdub... next release will have a gui installer :)11:38
Mithrandirjdub: but it won't necessarily be the only option. :)11:38
jdubnah, probably not11:38
jdubif it ends up being based on d-i, it'll be easy to go back to the text one :)11:38
debianistjdub : who's working on it? me and a another guy wanted to continue the GUI installer project, however after long discussions with the folks over #debian-boot , 11:39
debianistI realized a complete redesign of d-i is needed.11:39
Mithrandirdebianist: you are wrong.11:39
Mithrandirdebianist: (and, FWIW, Kamion and joeyh agree with me, they have a bit of d-i experience as well)11:40
debianistthat was what the guy who was the closes to the gui developers suggested, and he contributed it to the periority style, one question at a time charecter of d-i11:40
debianistMithrandir : glad to here that!11:40
Mithrandirthere is nothing stopping one from extending the debconf protocol a bit11:41
debianistI want to GUI installer for my winnie (As in windows) freinds :)11:41
Mithrandiryup, though, if one chooses UI based on the installer, I think they have the wrong focus. :)11:41
debianistI also.11:42
debianistBut it should be JUST there, for the layman to try it over :)11:42
debianistis there any help needed for GUI isntaller tasks? 11:42
debianistI am fascinated with how the d-i interworkings act, and consider this a valuable oppurtunity to get involved :)11:43
Mithrandiryou should probably talk to Kamion about it, he's a lot more active wrt both our installer works, and d-i.11:43
debianistoh ok thanks 11:43
jdubmmm, kamion, joeyh and i talked for a bit in oxford about doing a proper gui frontend11:44
jdubdesigned rather than generated11:44
Mithrandirone idea is to having something in cdebconf looking for magic templates, and if they come up, load a glade frontend which basically preseeds the questions based on the template.11:44
Mithrandirmy idea is to have the postinst query whether an extension (say, a partitioner widget) is available, and if so, communicate with that using some predefined API.11:45
Mithrandirthe problem with the first approach is magic in the frontend, which I dislike, the problem with my approach is more code paths and thereby some code which will be less tested.11:46
debianistMithrandir : we can device a test plan carfeully test every code branching11:46
jdubeasier said than done ;)11:47
Mithrandirdebianist: realistically, I don't think that's very feasible.  You'll get _a lot_ of tests.11:47
Mithrandirremember that the installer is fairly well-connected, so you can't just test each component.11:47
Mithrandironce we get automated installations working, it will be a lot easier to test, though.11:49
Mithrandirjdub: who are responsible for our kernel images?11:49
jdubMithrandir: mdz/herbert11:50
Mithrandirdo you know of any plans for 2.6.8?11:50
jdubthere's an x86 kernel in matt's webspace11:51
jdubsee sounder list11:51
Mithrandirhm, I'm not on there.  Just subbed11:52
jdubone sec11:52
jdubdeb http://www.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/kernel/ /11:53
jdub(e.g., apt-get install linux-image-
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Mithrandirjdub: thanks.  Would anybody scream too much if I uploaded amd64 kernels, you think?12:05
jdubMithrandir: built from that source?12:06
jdubperhaps making them available from your own spot20:05 < Mithrandir> jdub: thanks.  Would anybody scream too much if I uploaded amd64 kernels, you think?12:06
jdubsorry, slippery fingers ;)12:07
Mithrandirjdub: basically, what's in the archive today + bd_claim patch.12:08
danielsjdub: laptop progress?12:14
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debianistbye guys, evening laters12:19
Mithrandirhm, no, I shouldn't need that, it seems to be in already12:20
jdubdaniels: shipped12:20
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danielsjdub: rad12:47
danielsjdub: where from?12:47
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jdubno idea12:50
HrdwrBoBhoorah - I finally put this IDE CDROM on that machine and ubuntu installs, however it seems isolinux has some issues with some scsi drives12:51
jdubhmm, sounds like a problem with Hrdwr, BoB 12:52
jdub(haw haw haw)12:52
HrdwrBoBironically there's nothing wrong with the hardware per se- it boots other CDs fine12:53
jdubthat sounds bad12:53
jdubi wonder if i still have my scsi cdrom drives12:54
jdubcan you lodge a bug about that?12:54
danielshold on12:54
danielsit's nothing like ... *rummage*12:54
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HrdwrBoBit causes hardware to reboot before anything12:55
HrdwrBoBkernel never loads12:55
danielsoh, it's scsi anyway12:55
HrdwrBoByeah it's a goat problem12:55
HrdwrBoBwhat should I file it against?12:57
jdubdebian-installer or UNKNOWN12:58
Mithrandirisolinux should work with scsi, but some motherboards doesn't like it.12:59
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HrdwrBoBMithrandir: is there more information on thaT?01:00
jdubhey AndyFitz 01:00
AndyFitzhiya jdub01:00
jdubAndyFitz: so it seems the index.theme Size setting is being ignored :)01:00
jdubAndyFitz: tried the latest ubuntu-artwork?01:00
MithrandirHrdwrBoB: I don't have a link about it no, sorry.01:01
AndyFitzindex.theme size isnt ignored i dont think index.theme was present01:01
jdub$ du -sh /usr/share/icons/Human/index.theme01:02
jdub4.0K    /usr/share/icons/Human/index.theme01:02
jdubexample stanza:01:02
jdub[scalable/apps] 01:02
AndyFitzsize should be 12801:03
AndyFitzit will automatically display as 4801:03
jdubit seems to display as 128 or 256 atm :)01:03
AndyFitzyeah size isnt being ignored.  01:04
AndyFitzif you specify size=128  it will shrink to 4801:04
Mithrandircould somebody on i386 do me a small favor?01:06
Mithrandirbuild grub with http://raw.no/patches/grub-amd64.diff applied and tell me that I didn't break anything?01:06
AndyFitz[scalable/apps] 01:06
AndyFitz[scalable/filesystems] 01:07
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AndyFitz[scalable/devices] 01:07
jdubeek, ok01:07
jdubi just sedded it01:07
jdubit's all there01:08
dokoMithrandir: any packages already built and uploaded with gcc-3.4?01:09
Mithrandirdoko: not to my knowledge.01:09
Mithrandirdoko: I want to fix grub first, as soon as that is there, base should be fully installable01:10
jdubAndyFitz: alrighty,01:11
jdubAndyFitz: thanks - that's sorted01:11
dokook, so that should be no problem: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2004-09/msg00205.html (anyway, the current ubuntu package is a one week snapshot)01:13
AndyFitzany news back about the style?   im not in a hurry to design 200 icons style dependant icons without the go ahead.  Mark hasnt gotten back to me01:13
Mithrandirdoko: do you have an i386 system nearby and could test that the patch doesn't break i386?01:13
dokoMithrandir: which patch?01:14
Mithrandirbuild and install grub and see that it doesn't blow up01:14
dokoMithrandir: ok, will do tonight.01:15
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HrdwrBoBwill ubuntu have dualhead support? (afaik it hasn't got it at the moment)01:48
HrdwrBoBI mean eventually.. obviously it's not going to happen overnight01:49
Mithrandirwe are going to rock, so of course.01:49
jdubHrdwrBoB: you can do dualhead, but there isn't a nice configuration thingy for it yet :)01:50
HrdwrBoBit's fast becoming (become?) a standard01:50
HrdwrBoBI'm aware you can do it :)01:50
HrdwrBoBI can write my own X config files any time I like, and I do, and I hate the damn things :)01:50
HrdwrBoBbut dualhead always bites me in the bum, nvidias twinview is a terrible hack, and you end up with 3d games across two monitors, xinerama tends to eat glx and X dualhead isn't quite enough, and some apps get really confused01:51
HrdwrBoByou can't win01:51
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cefyeah well.. once X.org get their arses into gear mebbe they'll get something officially done about it02:13
Kamionnpmccallum: ping?02:34
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kagouSometime i lost my dvd/cdrom :/03:33
kagouide-cd: cmd 0x1e timed out // hdc: lost interrupt // hdc: cdrom_pc_intr: The drive appears confused (ireason = 0x01)03:34
kagousame error with kernel 2.6.7-i386 2.6.7-k7 and 2.6.8-k703:35
kagoudma problem ?03:36
kagouNo more splash image on grub menu ?03:38
kagou(i'm up to date)03:38
danielscef: ha ha ha03:38
danielscef: how much time do you have?03:38
danielscef: there is no right answer, and not fixing it right now is the least stupid option03:39
danielsHrdwrBoB: basically, my position on dualhead stuff is that we should never ask a question during install unless we're doing some amazing crap that is impossible to auto-detect03:40
danielsHrdwrBoB: this means a single head; dualhead is out of scope for installer stuff, and perfectly in scope for an (as-yet-unwritten) userspace x configuration tool03:40
danielscef: btw, we've already done a bit about bad xinerama<->glx interactions with mergedfb, meaning you can now do that meaningfully on radeon03:41
danielsbut it really is a difficult problem which spans both political and technical issues (yay!)03:41
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seb128daniels: we can remove licence displaying like that (ie: your xsane upload) ?04:24
Mithrandirseb128: had a look at my epiphany bug?04:25
seb128Mithrandir: seen it, I'll do an upload soon04:26
Mithrandirit's completely broken on amd64 right now04:26
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mdzMithrandir: herbert will be adding amd64 support to that package shortly05:45
mdzMithrandir: regarding grub, it doesn't seem to be built on amd64 yet05:45
MithrandirDate: Sun,  5 Sep 2004 12:45:01 +0100 (BST)                                     05:48
MithrandirUpload package to host jackass05:48
MithrandirUploading via ftp grub_0.95+cvs20040624-3ubuntu13.dsc: done.05:48
MithrandirUploading via ftp grub_0.95+cvs20040624-3ubuntu13.diff.gz: done.05:48
MithrandirUploading via ftp grub_0.95+cvs20040624-3ubuntu13_source.changes: done.05:48
MithrandirSuccessfully uploaded packages.05:48
mdzyes, the source is there05:49
mdzand i386 binaries05:49
mdzI CCed lamont on the bug05:49
Mithrandirit might be in PaS05:49
Mithrandirlamont: is grub in PaS?05:49
Mithrandirlamont: it should work on amd64 now05:49
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KamionMithrandir: the P-a-s entry looks fine to me06:20
Kamionunless our local copy needs to be updated or something06:20
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mdzMithrandir: eek06:25
mdzchecking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables06:25
mdzMithrandir: that's what happens when I try to build it on warty/amd6406:25
mdzconfigure:2413: x86_64-linux-gcc -m32   -static conftest.c  >&506:25
mdz/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/gcc-lib/x86_64-linux/3.3.4/../../../06:25
mdzlibc.a when searching for -lc06:26
mdz/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/bin/../lib/libc.a when searching for -lc06:26
mdz/usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libc.a when searching for -lc06:26
mdz/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lc06:26
mdzMithrandir: missing build-dep?06:26
mdzMithrandir: installing ia32-libs-dev lets the build succeed06:32
mdzI'll do an upload06:32
mdzMithrandir: you wrote this in the changelog, but did not actually add it to debian/control :-)06:33
KamionI'm worried that bug #1019 may show up in a lot of other places with the new initscripts06:35
Kamionthe idiom is: do stuff; log_end_msg $?06:35
Kamionwhich fails badly in set -e scripts, which per Debian policy (and sanity) ought to be most shell scripts06:36
Kamionset +e around the affected area is possible, but loses a lot of safety06:37
Mithrandirmdz: ew, ok, thanks06:37
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mdzKamion: that alone should not cause the script to fail, should it?  if it were set -e, then whichever command actually produced the nonzero $? would have terminated the script, no?06:39
mdzand so the log_end_msg would never be executed06:39
mdzthat doesn't sound right either, of course06:39
Kamionmdz: look more closely at bug #1019; the && means set -e doesn't trigger06:39
mdzoh, i see what happened in #101906:39
KamionI guess one possibility would be:06:40
Kamionhm, no06:40
KamionI can't actually think of a good way to do what we want in shell with the current API, which suggests to me that the API may need some rethinking06:41
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KamionI suppose something like this would work:06:42
Kamiondo stuff || CODE="$?"06:42
Kamionlog_end_msg "$CODE"06:42
Kamioncould wrap that up in a function06:42
mdzisn't there an expansion which produces the exit code of the specified command?06:42
Kamionnot unless you want to do grotty stuff with command substitution, which will break if the command outputs anything06:43
KamionI'm sure you could get around that with strategic redirections, but then you'll run into even more exciting issues06:43
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Kamionmdz: can we have a debian-installer component in bugzilla so that people stop assigning bugs to libdebian-installer?07:01
mdzKamion: yes07:01
mdzI'm surprised it hasn't seen any RC bugs in Debian07:01
mdzKamion: done07:02
Kamionthey tend to go on installation-reports in Debian, not debian-installer07:02
Kamionif they get reassigned to debian-installer they usually get un-severity-inflated first :)07:02
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pittimdz,Kamion: regarding bug #996: do you know any reason why to keep the IDE and SCSI device nodes root:disk 660?07:17
pittimdz,Kamion: if we left them at 640, hald could run in this group and do media check07:18
pittimdz,Kamion: I find'ed the whole fs for group 'disk', only the device nodes itself have it. In addition, even base-passwd's doc questions the usage of 'disk'.07:18
Kamionstuff following HELP: tags in base-passwd's documentation is not authoritative07:19
pittiKamion: I know, but what's the actual purpose of group disk? It essentially means root access07:20
KamionI don't think allowing hald only read access to the disk devices is all that much better than allowing it write access too07:20
Kamiongiven read access, you can extract the contents of /etc/shadow and elevate yourself to root07:20
Kamionso you might as well not worry about the write access07:20
pittiKamion: but you cannot decrypt the root password07:20
Kamionin theory ...07:21
pittiRegardless of the particular group, if hald is not in the same group as (at least) the removeable device nodes, we cannot do media checking.07:21
Kamionshadow is still non-world-readable for a reason :)07:21
pittiKamion: :-)07:21
Kamiondoesn't udev allow us to put removable device nodes in a different group?07:21
pittiKamion: Then we need a way to change the group of only the removeable devices07:21
pittiKamion: that's exactly what we needed07:21
pittiKamion: I can try to find a sane way07:21
Kamiongroup disk is fairly historical I think, but I'm reluctant to rock that particular boat because people may be using it locally07:22
pittiKamion: I was just wondering about the purpose of disk in general07:22
pittiKamion: agreed. 07:22
pittiKamion: I basically see two hacks of udev:07:22
pittieither we find a way to tell them apart by bus07:22
pittior we dynamically change the permissions file to create root.disk at the initial boot process, and then root.plugdev07:23
pittiI don't really like the second one :-)07:23
pittiKamion: Okay, I will try to find a way to tell the devices apart in udev.07:23
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mdzpitti: we definitely need to limit hal's access so that it can neither read nor write system disks09:17
mdzit must be limited to removable devices09:17
pittimdz: yes, that would be fine. If we can modify udev to tell apart removable from fixed devices, this is no problem09:35
seb128we need a "NEEDINFO" status in the warty bugzilla09:52
makojdub: you around?10:22
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jdubmako: yo10:52
makojdub: oh, i just sent you an email 10:55
makojdub: i've been working on the text for the cd cover and wanted your advice.. i also knew that you had some suggestions for stuff on the front or whatever that was not pure text so that should probably go into the same doc that we give the design company10:56
jdubyo seb128 10:56
jdubmako: got it, will read :)10:56
jdub   * New upstream release:10:57
jdub     - fix osssink and alsasink broken on nforce2 (intel8x0) soundcard.10:57
jdub^ woo ;)10:57
makoi want ossssssink to be configurable in dssssssssl10:58
ploumjdub, I've reported this bug11:01
ploumIt was fixed in 0.8.211:01
ploumbut there's a regression in 0.8.411:01
jdubi'm quoting from seb's upload :)11:01
ploumThat doesn't work anymore11:01
ploumI've reported this bug against 0.8.111:02
ploumAnd I've closed it when I saw that 0.8.2 was working11:02
seb128jdub: I'm quoting the upstream NEWS file :p11:02
spivHmm, keyboard shortcuts seems to think Super_L is an ordinary key rather than a modifier.11:05
Keybuksomething between X and metacity is broken11:07
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=== seb128 too
jdubthat's because we all like to see daniels in his mechanic's costume11:07
Keybukbasically Super_L is missing from modifier_map Mod411:08
lamontwow - grub built on amd64, eh?11:58

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