Mithrandirlamont: trivial fix12:00
Mithrandirso base should be installable now.12:00
Mithrandircan you adjust PaS?12:00
Mithrandiror is only elmo able to do that?12:01
dokoMithrandir: grub test still needed on i386?12:01
lamontno PaS adjust12:01
Mithrandirdoko: no, not really.12:01
Mithrandirlamont: ok. :/12:01
Mithrandirwe kinda need grub-installer on amd64.12:01
dokolamont: gcc-3.4 is not yet built?12:01
lamontah, that'd be elmo work, since (I think) I already changed it.12:01
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jdubyo Gman 12:02
lamontdoko: ubuntu5 built on all 3 architectures12:03
lamontMithrandir: PaS has been adjusted, may need to be sync';ed12:03
dokomdz: will we build an amd64 kernel for i386 as well?12:04
lamontdebian-installer/grub-installer_0.50ubuntu3: Installed [-:uncompiled] 12:04
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lamontthat'd be installed, Mithrandir12:04
dokolamont: hmm, only ubuntu4 is in the archives.12:04
Mithrandirlamont: woo. :)12:04
Mithrandirso tomorrow's daily might work.12:05
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lamontdoko: any chance you added new binary packages?12:07
lamontor renamed?12:07
=== lamont fears that gcc-3.4 needs some NEW lovin;
elmothere's nothing in NEW12:08
lamontclues on where gcc-3.4 went?  upload was sept 212:09
elmowhat upload? it's in "Building" for i38612:10
dokothe ubuntu5 upload.12:10
elmoyes, I know that, but it's not in the "Uploaded" state in w-b12:10
lamontelmo: there's a gcc-3.4...upload file on macaroni...12:10
lamontUploaded happens when the anon queue daemon sends its mail.  That or it's broken - I've never seen Uploaded for warty packages, except when I manually marked them thus12:11
lamontinterestingly, macaroni, royal, and crested all think they uploaded it...12:11
elmoRejected: libgcc1_3.3.4-9ubuntu1_i386.deb: old version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) in warty >= new version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) targeted at warty.12:11
elmoRejected: lib64gcc1_3.3.4-9ubuntu1_i386.deb: old version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) in warty >= new version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) targeted at warty.12:11
elmolamont: no it doesn't, it happens on ACCEPT mail and the buildd should be getting them12:12
elmoRejected: libgcc1_3.3.4-9ubuntu1_amd64.deb: old version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) in warty >= new version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) targeted at warty.12:12
elmoRejected: libgcc1_3.3.4-9ubuntu1_powerpc.deb: old version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) in warty >= new version (1:3.3.4-9ubuntu1) targeted at warty.12:12
lamontelmo: OK.  could just be the hyper-short hours...12:13
lamontdoko: what elmo said...  gcc-3.4 can't upload libgcc1.12:13
lamontor gcc-3.3 needs to stop, and 3.4 needs to upload something newer....12:13
lamontwhile being conformant to whatever the freeze policy is, of course.12:14
lamonts/freeze policy/decision about gcc-3.4/12:14
dokoah, ok, that's the crap to have the libgcc1's version number at 3.3.4, although built from the 3.4.1 sources (because we wanted to have a chance to remove gcc-3.4 from warty, if it breaks something). I'll change this to 3.4.1 now.12:15
dokoelmo: any chance where to look for those failures?12:16
elmodoko: not at the moment no, sorry, not really12:20
=== jdub swishes around the fixy-fixy wand
jdubi should put on suspenders and get a feather duster12:24
Keybukjdub: that would be a pretty good look for you :p12:25
hypatiajdub: It would make for excellent pre-release artwork.12:29
hypatiajdub: Someone would do an icon theme, no worries.12:29
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lamontMithrandir: btw, newt is ftbfs on amd64: non-PIC in shlib12:47
=== lamont trusts the process, apt-get dist-upgrades his warty desktop
lamonthrm... questions from X12:49
Mithrandirlamont: hm, ok, I'll look at it12:53
danielslamont: !12:54
danielslamont: output of lspci?12:55
danielsxresprobe has to be installed first ... is it?12:55
lamontdaniels: dunno - this is upgrading my system12:55
lamontpretty sure xresprobve was installed already12:55
lamontlspci| grep VGA12:56
lamont0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV200 QW [Radeon 7500] 12:56
=== lamont will accept donations of more supportable hardware...\
lamontit asked for my PCI path to the card, and whether or not to use the kernel's fb interface12:56
lamontSetting up apache2-mpm-worker (2.0.50-12) ...12:57
lamontForcing reload of web server: Apache2httpd (no pid file) not running12:57
lamontthat looks ugly..12:57
danielslamont: what happens when you type 'xresprobe ati'?12:58
lamontxresprobe ati01:00
lamontid: 01:00
lamontres: 01:00
lamontfreq: 01:00
lamontthat's with an X server running, of course..01:00
=== lamont brbr
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
lamont"Ubuntu Debugging Artwork"??01:04
=== lamont finds a certain amount of irony that firefox, xchat, etc are moving towards _not_ focusing on new tabs, while metacity blithely strips focus away from an ssh-add prompt.
danielslamont: whoa, that really sucks. can you please send me the output of ddcprobe?01:07
lamontdaniels: you didn't remind me to be root... :-(01:08
lamontxresprobe ati01:08
lamontid: SAMSUNG01:08
lamontres: 1280x1024 1024x768 800x600 640x480 1792x134401:08
lamontfreq: 30-85 50-16001:08
lamontand yes, I'm running 1792x134401:08
HrdwrBoBlamont: that's been a per hate of mine for ages01:08
Mithrandirlamont: sounds like it's missing "a bit" of error checking.01:08
lamontHrdwrBoB: I filed a bug in debian asking for an option to fix that...01:08
lamontMithrandir: ??01:09
Mithrandirlamont: that xresprobe doesn't say "permission denied" or something01:09
lamontdaniels: still want dccprobe output?01:09
lamontMithrandir: epiphany-browser also died on amd64: compiler can't create executables01:10
danielslamont: hm, weird01:10
danielssure it does error checking01:10
danielstry xresprobe ati; echo $?01:10
lamontdaniels: that was going from ubuntu9?? to current01:10
Mithrandirlamont: huh?, that _really_ shouldn't happen.01:10
Mithrandirlamont: care to mail me the build log?01:11
Mithrandiror put it online somewhere01:11
lamontdaniels: as mortal: xresprobe ati; echo $?01:11
lamontid: 01:11
lamontres: 01:11
lamontfreq: 01:11
danielslamont: x shouldn't ask questions at that stage; my best guess is that xresprobe/et al aren't installed before x is configured01:11
danielslamont: !01:11
lamontMithrandir: it points at config.log, which is gone...01:11
Mithrandir*sigh*, ok.01:11
MithrandirI'll try without ia32-libs-dev installed01:11
lamontMithrandir: if you want, I'll kick it again and not remove it..01:12
MithrandirI have that and it might be using -m32 for some weird reason01:12
lamontia32-libs is not a build-dep, if that helps...01:12
=== lamont bets so
HrdwrBoBI just upgraded X and it's decided that none of the modes are appropriate anymore.. and I get 640x48001:12
Mithrandirlamont: it shouldn't need that.  If it needs ia32-libs-dev, something is fucked01:12
hypatiaDoes anyone else use "screen" inside a gnome-terminal?01:13
Mithrandirhypatia: as we speak01:13
lamontHrdwrBoB: which rev of X?01:13
hypatiaI have a problem where it regularly causes the terminal to stop rendering, and eat 100% CPU for about 30 seconds.01:13
HrdwrBoBlamont: whatever the latest is, let me check01:13
jdubhypatia: i use screen in g-t01:13
hypatiaIf nothing else, this is hell on my laptop's battery life.01:13
jdubhypatia: there is known weirdness between screen and vte, but i haven't seen that01:14
=== lamont got annoyed at g-t, and switched to xterm...
hypatiaBy "regularly", I mean, "once a day, and then it happens intermittantly for half an hour."01:14
Mithrandirhypatia: no idea, I haven't seen it.01:14
Mithrandirhypatia: is screen running locally or remotely?01:14
hypatiajdub: I've been getting it consistently for about a year.01:14
hypatiaMithrandir: Remotely.01:14
=== jdub wishes the vte maintainer didn't go AWOL, even though he's sitting next to other active gnome maintainers.
Mithrandirhypatia: same here.. I haven't seen it.01:15
hypatiajdub: Within 15 minutes of spiv letting me use his laptop  it started happening to him too...01:15
HrdwrBoBmaybe it's the app you run?01:15
=== lamont giggles...
Mithrandirhypatia: though, my remote box is running debian unstable, not warty, no idea if that matters.01:17
lamont /build/buildd/epiphany-browser-1.3.8/./configure: line 1: gcc-3.4: command not found01:17
lamontMithrandir: missing build-depes01:17
Mithrandirlamont: sounds like seb128 forgot to add a build-dep..01:17
danielslamont: fixed in new upload01:17
HrdwrBoBVersion: 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu1401:18
lamontdaniels: of X?? :-(01:18
=== lamont hates X uploads almost as much as OO.o uploads
danielslamont: no, xresprobe01:18
danielslamont: I'm not *that* harsh01:18
daniels'* This one goes out to LaMont -- fixing some really small bug for him so he'll have to do ten times the work to get it uploaded. Cheers.'01:19
=== lamont contemplates having his rsync script copy the prior rev of _all.deb's into the new version before the rsync... But that'd be work
Mithrandirmy laptop is a bit dead now, could somebody please upload a newt with http://debian-amd64.alioth.debian.org/patches/current/newt_0.51.6- applied (and a changelog entry saying "enabling -fPIC" or something along those lines)?01:19
danielsHrdwrBoB: output of xresprobe nv?01:19
lamontdaniels: this is the EPERM bitch?01:19
HrdwrBoBid: DELL P111001:19
HrdwrBoBres: 1600x1200 1152x864 1024x768 800x600 720x400 640x480 1800x144001:19
HrdwrBoBfreq: 30-121 48-16001:19
danielslamont: yah, $? wasn't getting properly passed down01:19
HrdwrBoBI pissed off the gf2mx and put ye olde trustworthy g400 in it01:19
lamontMithrandir: I'll grab it and do it.01:20
danielsor xresprobe mga, then01:20
Mithrandirlamont: thanks.01:20
HrdwrBoBis it supposed to force agp 1x?01:21
danielsHrdwrBoB: .. no01:21
hypatiaMithrandir: It's one of those "uh... yeah, interesting bug, I don't believe you!" bugs that I'm always reluctant to file.01:21
hypatiaMithrandir: Remote is debian testing.01:22
lamontso I put a CD in the drive, and my prefs are set to auto-play it.  It doesn't.  What'd I break?01:22
hypatiaHrdwrBoB: The application is irssi.01:22
HrdwrBoBhypatia: oh.. heh.. a lot of other people also use that01:22
hypatiaI really need to run irssi remotely, otherwise you can see me rejoin every half an hour.01:22
HrdwrBoBperhaps it's the way you use it?01:22
HrdwrBoBhrm odd01:22
hypatiaBecause every half an hour, I need to reboot on this to make the wireless card work.01:23
hypatiaWell yeah, but I don't think my usage of it is that unusuall.01:23
Mithrandirhypatia: no idea.. that works just fine here, and has been for a long time.01:23
jdubhypatia: irssi also has this talented bug that makes the whole screen go blue01:23
hypatiaI press ^P and ^N to switch windows, I type in the box.01:23
jduband the only way to fix that is to open a new terminal01:23
danielshypatia: oh, rad. is this the blue thing, or different?01:23
danielsthat really bits01:23
jdubonly ever happens to me when i change themes ;)01:23
jdubbut GAR!01:24
hypatiadaniels: The entire gnome-terminal stops rendering and chews 100% CPU for about 30 seconds.01:24
Mithrandirjdub: no, detach + reattach fixes it as well01:24
spivjdub: Well, detaching and reattaching screen wfm.01:24
spivMithrandir: :)01:24
jdubdoesn't work for me ;)01:24
jdubalthough some C-a C-l action might01:24
MithrandirC-l alone doesn't help01:24
hypatiadaniels: And once it starts doing that, it will do it about every third time someone says something until I completely restart g-t.01:24
jdubnot C-l, yeah01:24
Mithrandiror, it helps, but fucks once somebody says something01:24
hypatiaOn the wireless subject, is anyone else here using ipw2200?01:25
spivI think I've also seen the irssi-blue-screen behaviour when opening a tab on a maximised gnome-terminal with no other tabs, i.e. causing the terminal to resize a little.01:25
hypatiaAnd if so, do you have to reboot once an hour too?01:25
=== jdub is worried his bandwidth bills are going to be astronomical this month
=== lamont knows jdub's pain
=== Mithrandir thinks .au is silly bw-wise.
hypatiajdub: You can look it up on swift's site can't you?01:26
Keybukjdub: bandwidth bills?01:27
jdubi'm probably below the line01:27
HrdwrBoBMithrandir: au is broken :(01:27
jdubthough i'm less distributed on-peak/off-peak wise now01:27
lamontMithrandir: it b-d's gcc-3.4-base, but not the actual compiler, I guess.\01:27
lamontjdub: phone or internet?01:27
Mithrandirlamont: "it" being e-b?01:27
jdublamont: internet01:28
lamontMithrandir: yeah01:28
lamontjdub: that's why I have the throttled mirror...01:28
Mithrandirlamont: uhm, ok.  Sounds weird.01:28
jdubi'm using apt-proxy-v2, which helps a bit01:28
lamontnewt uploaded01:28
Mithrandirlamont: thanks a lot01:28
Mithrandirlamont: got any more fun build failures for me?01:29
=== Mithrandir makes a mental note not to move to .au until it gets decent bandwidth stuff.
lamontMithrandir: the only open mail I have right now is e-b (known) and grub (FTBFS: powerpc) --> duh...01:30
=== lamont should really PaS grub on ppc
Mithrandirwell, I don't care too much about grub not working on ppc. ;)01:30
lamontMithrandir: you and the rest of the world, including me01:30
lamontuniverse has some01:30
MithrandirI know, but universe isn't that crucial01:31
MithrandirI could think about how to do OOo01:31
lamontOTOH, main is continuing it's BORING state wrt FTBFS issues.01:31
lamontand that's a _GOOD_ thing.01:31
lamontdo we care at all about pytables, python-utmp, pyx, rdiff-backup, tla-load-dirs (and others)???01:33
HrdwrBoBI consider the fact that my desktop machine with no wireless connections has a wireless icon and a battery icon in the taskbar a bug - is this a generic thing or has it inadvertantly been seen as a laptop?01:33
lamontHrdwrBoB: it was a discussion item01:33
Mithrandirlamont: FTBFS-wise?01:33
lamontMithrandir: missing b-d: python01:33
Mithrandirthey're arch: all?01:33
lamonthrm.. could be, but I don't think so.01:34
lamontI could just give them all back and see what comes back,. :-)01:34
MithrandirI guess they should be fixed, but as my key is being memtested at the moment, I'm not going to do anything about them now..01:34
lamontyour key?01:34
Mithrandiror rather, the laptop with my key on01:35
Mithrandirso I can't sign uploads tonight01:35
lamontah, ok,01:35
lamontnewt ACCEPTE01:35
=== lamont moves the missing-bd-python stuff to 'Failed'
Mithrandirlamont: does the archive handle that source1 builds package A on arch A, B, C while source2 builds package A on arch D?01:40
Mithrandir(as in, can I build ooo from a different source on AMD64 than on other arches?)01:40
Mithrandirok, good.01:43
MithrandirI'll do the evil ia32-libs-hack for OOo, then.01:43
=== lamont makes a note to decide whether to ^5 or smite Mithrandir for his clever solution
Mithrandir(no, I don't like it, but as I see it, it's the only way to get ooo available on amd64 without fixing ooo or implementing multiarch)01:44
Mithrandirlamont: ;)01:44
Mithrandir(on both of those are out-of-scope for warty)01:45
lamontoh.  s/clever/"clever"/01:45
Mithrandirlamont: it's frigging ugly, I do so agree.  I should bribe you and elmo with proper amounts of beer to accept it. ;)01:45
=== lamont still wants to know why is dvd's don't auto-play
lamontdoesn't find CF devices anymore either...02:20
lamontall I did was remove gnome-volume-manager and reinstall it...02:20
Mithrandirlamont: is g-v-m actually running?02:21
lamonthrm. no02:22
Mithrandirit sometimes dies for me, I haven't been able to track it down, yet.02:22
lamonthow does one restart it?02:23
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Mithrandirjust run it02:23
Mithrandir(from the Run option in the menu, or a terminal)02:23
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lamonthrm.. doesn't look like it's finding the CF device at all now...02:33
=== lamont still doesn't know what his plans are for tomorrow
=== Mithrandir goes to bed
cef_worknite guys02:38
=== cef_work just got to work.. fun fun!
danielscef_work: huzzah. where are amc these days?02:39
lamonthrm.  gnome-volume-manager running, still no happiness02:39
cef_workdaniels: still cheltenham.. moving to moorabbin in 2 weeks *sigh*02:39
danielselmo: cheers02:39
danielscef_work: ahr02:39
cef_workdaniels: feel like talking about X.org again? *grin*02:39
danielscef_work: given i'm moving to east ivanhoe tomorrow night, how about no? :P02:40
cef_workdaniels: bugger!02:40
cef_workdaniels: where in ivanhoe? I'm in alphington02:40
danielscef_work: ormond road, between ivanhoe and eaglemont station (just east of both, a little closer to eaglemont than ivanhoe)02:41
mdzdoko: I had not intended to build an amd64 kernel for i386...is there any reason to, since we provide a full amd64 distribution?02:41
cef_workdaniels: ahh ok.. I know the area but not the road.. cool stuff.. hrm.. possibly have LOS.. *grin*02:41
danielscef_work: i'm still not sure how much bandwidth I have, so that might actually be nifty ;)02:42
cef_workdaniels: heh..02:43
danielscef_work: 31 j702:44
danielsbetween maltravers rd and the eyrie (which runs east away from eaglemont station)02:44
danielscef_work: i'm apparently about halfway down the street02:44
cef_workahh ok.. don't have LOS.. there is a big hill in the way *8-(.. but you're like 200-300m from nailer02:48
cef_workdaniels: and I have a 24 dBi grid sitting next to me that I can probably loan you for a few weeks02:49
danielscef_work: er, mike's been in st kilda for a bit over a year now, dude :)02:50
danielsthanks for the offer tho02:50
cef_workdaniels: doh! keep forgetting that02:50
HrdwrBoBwhere nailer used to live anyway :)02:51
cef_workhaven't heard from him in ages02:51
HrdwrBoBhe comes into #lgl moderately frequently02:51
cef_worklot of that crowd seems to not talk to me anymore - *8-(02:52
HrdwrBoBdaniels: when I remove the monitor settings (HorizSync and VertRefresh) from the XF86Config, it works.03:09
danielsfabbione: ^^03:12
danielsfabbione: this is what i was afraid of03:12
HrdwrBoBheh, it appears sg is not loaded with the scsi cdrom - thusly, sound-juicer doesn't work03:17
mdzlamont: around?03:21
mdzlamont: could you keep an eye on i855-crt and make sure it gets built?03:22
mdzMark will need it tomorrow03:22
mdzshould be trivial, but just in case03:22
lamontterranova built it, and it was uploaded03:22
lamontSep  6 01:50:01 buildd-mail: i855-crt must be manually dinstall-ed -- delayed03:23
lamontelmo around?03:23
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lamontmdz: sorry I couldn't push it all the way, eh?03:27
kfishyo ... nice work all :)03:27
mdzlamont: no problem, elmo's nudged it03:27
jdubyo kfish 03:31
Keybukthis weather is really pissing me off03:32
Keybuk^ my kitchen ceiling right now03:32
kfishX worked on my 17" powerbook out of the box ... --> happy kfish :)03:32
HrdwrBoBhm, it appears as though nothing much works with SCSI in ubuntu :D03:33
jdubKeybuk: i'm reverting the wifi change; i don't think the bars are the right thing, but they're better than the current one.03:33
tvon|x31Keybuk: ew03:33
Keybukwarm as hell and 95% humidity03:34
tvon|x31jdub: them little semicircles?03:34
HrdwrBoBthough the drive loaded, and there's a disc in it, 'device manager' sees it03:34
HrdwrBoBit was never added to /etc/fstab03:34
jdubtvon|x31: yeah, that concept needs to be gnomeised03:34
tvon|x31jdub: I dig the mac-esque wifi applet bits03:34
tvon|x31its perdy though03:34
tvon|x31the original one stank, half the space was taken up by a graphic that just said 'wifi'03:35
Keybuktvon|x31: yeah, we all hate the original one03:35
mdzHrdwrBoB: we don't mess with /etc/fstab03:35
mdzexcept at install time03:35
tvon|x31the one before the semicircles was okay, I never got to see it working because of my wireless setup at the time though03:35
elmooh, yeah, that's why I'm up.. it's too damn hot to sleep03:35
=== tvon|x31 yawns
=== tvon|x31 pokes around for xorg debs
HrdwrBoBmdz: yeah but it wasn't detected at install03:37
HrdwrBoBit's been there all along03:37
mdzHrdwrBoB: so you have a SCSI device present, but you installed to a non-SCSI device?03:37
HrdwrBoBI also installed off a non SCSI device03:38
mdzI believe entries are only added to fstab for partitions with a recognizable OS installed on them, or ones that you configure manually03:38
mdzit does not attempt to add entries for everything which might be mountable03:38
lamontKeybuk: string a few rubber-bands together and go hunting... It's a great southern sport.03:38
HrdwrBoBis there any reason that that can't be done?03:38
HrdwrBoB(at least for known things like cd drives in the system03:39
mdzit sounds technically feasible03:39
lamontis there a metapackage that installs all of desktop?  or which task do I want?03:39
mdzlamont: aptitude install '~tubuntu-desktop'03:39
HrdwrBoBI'll file it as a request under d-i03:40
mdzHrdwrBoB: file a Severity: enhancement bug against debian-installer03:40
mdzok :-)03:40
jdublamont: is gcc-opt packaged?03:40
lamontjdub: certainly.  But it's not in warty03:40
jduband not going to be for the moment?03:41
lamontjdub: that's my expectation, given the lack of push to make it otherwise...03:41
lamontdo I care if libesd-alsa0 gets removed?03:43
mdzabsolutely not03:43
mdzin fact it should be celebrated03:43
=== lamont leaves totem-xine, but otherwise upgrades
mdzjdub: can you update the email address for bugzilla-daemon on warty-bugs so its posts don't wait for moderation anymore?03:43
lamontmaybe that'll make gnome-volume-manager/totem happy enough to play dvd's automatically again03:44
jdubmdz: aren't you the admin?03:44
jdubnm, i have site passwd03:44
lamontdbus-1-utils was on the list of things to install..03:44
mdzjdub: yeah, but it still seems to send a confirmation message03:44
mdzwhich I can't reply to03:44
mdzits mail probably goes to /dev/null anyway03:45
mdzthe way I did it, anyway03:45
jdubok, the best way to do it03:45
Keybuklamont: heh, I just evicted ~35 greenfly, 2 dragonflies and 4 moths from my bathroom03:45
lamont"City of Lost Devices" - heh03:46
KeybukI'm using the tries and tested "glass and a piece of paper" technique03:46
jdubis add an entry to List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. 03:46
jdubi've just added one for nny03:46
jdubthe previous one was warthogs03:46
jdubi'll unsub the macquarie one, too03:46
Keybukand I'm left with that great problem, do I (a) shut all the windows and die from the heat or (b) open them, and let all the flying beasties back in03:47
HrdwrBoBKeybuk: c) buy an airconditioner03:48
lamont1083.43 GHz processor.. kewl.03:49
cef_workjdub: since the ubuntu ppl are doing a talk next month at LUV, how much can I give away in telling people what's up for next months talk? I'd like to basically plug the talk but I don't want to give anything away03:49
KeybukHrdwrBoB: it's very tempting, our summers are just getting cruel these days :-/03:49
Keybuksilly, I remember as a kid praying for a warm day in July/August03:50
HrdwrBoByour seasons are broken03:50
HrdwrBoBjuly/august is when it rains :)03:50
Keybukheh, this is the first summer for years that it's actually rained properly03:50
Keybukit hasn't got any cooler though03:50
cef_workHrdwrBoB: except in Melbourne, where it rains every month03:50
HrdwrBoBwe've had pretty good weather recently though03:51
Keybukeven the aussies were complaining about the humidity03:51
jdubcef_work: see debian.slug.org.au, except you should probably also mention 'Canonical' (the company) and 'Ubuntu' (the distribution)03:51
jdubcraige hasn't updated that entry yet03:51
cef_workjdub: cool'03:52
cef_workjdub: cool. thought that was about what I could get away with saying anyway, but just wanted to have it confirmed03:54
=== lamont discovers plugdev, brb
jdubmdz: how's that going?03:57
danielstvon|x31: there are debs, but they are out of date with the current debian stuff, and they're also just of 6.7.004:00
danielstvon|x31: look for post-warty movement04:00
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
lamontplugdev.  Figures04:01
HrdwrBoBlamont: hey?04:07
HrdwrBoBshould the default user be in the plugdev group04:07
HrdwrBoBI'm thinking yes04:08
lamontthat's my thinking too.04:08
HrdwrBoBthat would be another installer bug?04:09
tvon|x31daniels: thanks04:11
lamontbase-config, iirc.04:11
HrdwrBoBok filing04:11
danielser, base-config already adds users to plugdev04:21
daniels                addgroup --system plugdev >/dev/null 2>&1 || true04:22
daniels                adduser "$RET" plugdev >/dev/null 2>&1 || true04:22
danielsbase-config (2.44ubuntu3) warty; urgency=low04:22
daniels  * lib/menu/passwd: Create new group 'plugdev' for accessing local removeable04:22
daniels    devices (USB sticks, digital cameras, etc.) and put the created user into04:22
daniels    it.04:22
danielsHrdwrBoB: is this a fresh install? if so, how fresh?04:22
daniels(sounder from 2nd of sep or later?)04:23
lamontdaniels: sounder 3... :-(  Nowhere close to current04:23
danielslamont: ah04:23
HrdwrBoBdaniels: I installed it last night04:24
HrdwrBoBthough it was sounder cd704:24
danielssounder 7 is not quite recent enough to get plugdev love04:25
HrdwrBoBis X supposed to use 100% CPU when I connect via vnc?04:45
=== lamont giggles
jdubHrdwrBoB: without DAMAGE, yes :-)04:47
HrdwrBoBit seems to be dependant on resolution (1744 is too much for a poor duron 700)04:48
daniels'don't do that, then' ;)04:48
HrdwrBoBthe irritating thing is that I'm not even viewing the screen04:48
HrdwrBoBI'm using x2vnc04:48
HrdwrBoBso it shouldn't be a problem04:48
jdubHrdwrBoB: that's kind of bad04:48
jdubwhen visuals are involved, it's scraping the entire screen, which is a pretty vicious load on X04:49
HrdwrBoByes, very04:49
jdubi don't know if vnc can let you send events only04:49
jdubi thought it did04:49
HrdwrBoBso did I 04:49
HrdwrBoBperhaps it's the particular implementation?04:49
HrdwrBoBhmm.. there's about another 10% load increase when I actually connect using a visual vnc client04:50
lamonthrm... I get russian spam in russian now, but still no japanese/korean love04:51
tvon|x31does 'printscreen' actually take a screenshot for anyone?04:54
lamontfonts work in the browser, but xterm doesn't like them....04:55
danielslamont: try uxterm, or forcing use of Xft with '-fa mono' (or some other font)04:58
lamontgnome-terminal is happy though..04:58
lamontuxterm is happy.04:58
tvon|x31xterm -fa 'Andale Mono' -fs 1004:58
lamonthow does uxterm differ from xterm?04:58
lamonttvon|x31: nope04:58
tvon|x31are the mscorefonts in a package anywheres?04:58
tvon|x31fancy that05:00
danielslamont: utf-8 love05:00
lamontis that all?05:00
danielslamont: yah05:01
tvon|x31daniels: is it supposed to be in main/universe?05:01
danielstvon|x31: should be in universe, but it might be contrib05:01
tvon|x31ah, didnt know about contrib05:01
tvon|x31(it isnt in universe)05:01
danielsho hum05:01
lamontfeh.  mutt isn't happy with it, even though bash is.05:02
tvon|x31hrm, where is contrib?05:02
HrdwrBoBbleh, even at 800x600 vnc uses so much CPU it's barely useable05:02
lamontonly it's not there05:02
tvon|x31cabextract is in univ, msttcore is in sid contrib05:03
tvon|x31if anyone gives a hooey05:04
=== hrdwrbob_ [~hrdwrbob@220-253-15-102.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
lamont \242\27305:06
lamonthrm.. wonder what utf-8 character that is05:07
hrdwrbob_remote desktop preferences says localhost.localdomain because it's the first entry in /etc/hosts for localhost, who's wrong? base-config or vino05:08
lamontwhere can I find what font has a given 16-bit utf8 character?05:14
lamontmako about?05:19
=== lamont wanders bedwards
makolamont, still around?05:22
lamontwondering where else to find fonts...05:23
lamontwhere was that 'I can eat class' page you had up during your BOF?05:23
lamontand is there a trivial place to go paste in a 16-bit hex value and find what it should be?  (and what font...)05:24
makoi need to put in an apache fragment to have that automatically use UTF-8 for those text files05:24
lamontgood gravy - that first one is the complete character list, yes?05:25
makothe first one has SOME pangrams05:25
makobut it's not wholly pangrams05:25
lamontYI SYLLABLE CUO and that means?05:25
makowhat is the character code?05:25
lamontMind you - that's just a couple of octets from the front of some spam...05:27
lamontbut my russian spam has been working for a bit..:-)05:28
=== lamont still needs to get japanese input methods figured out...
makoi have never seen that character before :)05:29
mdzlamont: as long as you're awake, if you could check in on linux-source-, I'd appreciate it05:29
mdzI just uploaded it, so it's probably not going yet05:29
=== lamont checks
makolamont: i, also known as Lolo, is the Sino-Tibetan language used by aboriginal people of south-west China.05:31
lamontreverting patch alpha-epoch-comment from ./ ... ok.05:31
lamontcp -p debian/patches/00list-1.1 debian/patches/00list05:31
lamontcp: cannot stat `debian/patches/00list-1.1': No such file or directory05:31
lamontmake[1] : *** [debian/monolith/patch-]  Error 105:31
makolamont: i don't have that font either05:31
mdzlamont: that'd be the -1.1 version05:31
mdzI just uploaded a -1.205:31
lamontah, OK.05:31
lamontbefore :30:00?05:31
=== lamont stalls for about 3 more minutes
mdzlamont: just barely, yes05:32
mdz-rw-rw----  1 mdz mdz 363 2004-09-05 20:25 linux-source-
=== jdub installs every desktop app in supported
lamontmdz: ah, OK05:32
lamontjdub: glutton!05:32
jdublamont: or sucker, depending on your POV :)05:32
mdzDate: Mon,  6 Sep 2004 04:30:27 +0100 (BST)05:33
mdzSubject: Accepted linux-source- (source)05:33
lamontmdz: ok.  about 20 seconds ago, cron.daily started dealing with it05:33
mdzif it manages to apply the patches and starts actually compiling things, I'm happy05:33
lamontDatabases locked for general maintenance by katie -- please wait05:34
lamontmdz: thoughts on pulling the fix for #267837 from debian (postfix, ipv6 relay issues)05:36
mdzlamont: if that patch is correct, it's fine with me05:36
mdzit doesn't get much more unintrusive than that :-)05:36
daniels[gcc line] 05:36
daniels/tmp/ccYo6i3Q.s: Assembler messages:05:36
daniels/tmp/ccYo6i3Q.s:18678: Warning: end of file not at end of a line; newline inserted05:36
daniels/tmp/ccYo6i3Q.s:20052: Error: unknown pseudo-op: `.lc10'05:36
danielsmake[4] : *** [gimpimage-new.o]  Error 105:36
lamontyeah - I'll merge it over then05:37
HrdwrBoBwhat's the stance on metacity's refusal to allow windows above the screen05:37
HrdwrBoBcould ubuntu have a patch to add this as an option?05:37
jdubHrdwrBoB: windows can't cover the panels05:37
mdzmako: Lalland Scots / Doric: Ah can eat gless, it disnae hurt us. (?)05:38
jdubno :)05:38
danielsjdub: i think he's talkin ga bout the alt-trag above the top border thing05:38
lamontmdz: powerpc is quick and painful:05:38
lamontdpkg-buildpackage: host architecture is powerpc05:38
lamont /usr/bin/fakeroot debian/rules clean05:38
lamontfind: debian/config/powerpc: No such file or directory05:38
mdzlamont: that's OK; powerpc and amd64 aren't there yet05:38
jdubdaniels: which is?05:38
mdzlamont: they should be within the next day or so, but I wanted to get i386 on the table05:38
jdubwindows butting up against the panel, surely05:38
HrdwrBoBjdub: if you alt-drag, it's not possible to put the title of the window outside the screen05:38
danielsjdub: hold down alt, try to drag a window up so far that the titlebar is above the top of the screen05:38
danielsjdub: you can do it for *below*, but not above05:39
HrdwrBoBthe theory is that if you put the titlebar outside the screen, it's Bad05:39
makolamont, i'm going to run out now, but tomorrow you should explain to me why you want/need aboriginal sino-tibetan script :)05:39
lamontmako: nfc why - was just noticing lots of square boxes in my spam subject lines...05:39
HrdwrBoBwhich is fine, but you can't do it unless you know what you're doing anyway, and metacity refused to add it even as an option, despite lots of complaints05:39
=== lamont doesn't get asian spam - just russian it seems.
jdubi don't think that's worth a local patch, really05:40
jdubbetter to deal with it upstream05:40
mdzmaybe it was actually a non-utf-8 character set?05:40
lamontmdz: probably05:40
mdztwo characters, A2 and DD05:40
lamontouch: sh: line 1: uudecode: command not found05:41
mdzlamont: b-d: sharutils?05:41
lamontmdz: want me to cause 1.3 results to go to you if they fail?05:41
jdubso the only INSANE menu after installing everything from supported is 'internet'05:41
mdzlamont: sure05:41
lamontmdz: yep05:41
lamont  :0:c05:42
lamont  * ^Subject: Log for .*build of linux-source-2.*dist=warty05:42
lamont  ! mdz@alcor.net05:42
lamontonly failures get that far05:42
mdzthis is so much more fun than testing in a chroot :-P05:42
lamonts/failures/failures beyond the atomaton's ability/05:43
lamontmdz: Ok, Camm.05:43
=== lamont decides to augment his script in some manner to mail failures to the uploader. maybe.
lamontalso need to chat with elmo about a central hub for the automaton to live on.05:46
lamont9+ copies of the scripts is rediculous05:46
lamontSubject: Buy V\343lium and X.anax now05:47
lamontThat'd be a non-UTF8 font :-)05:47
jdublamont: failures to uploader would be totally rad05:48
lamontanyway - bed time05:48
lamontjdub: pb is that the uploader's email isn't necessarily available at the point that I'm looking at the log.05:48
lamontI could just auto-file bugs in bugzilla :-)05:49
lamontbut then I fear mdz would kill me. :-)05:49
lamontsomething to ponder tomorrow while I'm vacating (or was that vacationing?  laboring?)05:49
lamontbut I have to check out USB sync'ing tomorrow.05:50
mdzit takes forever just to run dpkg-source -b on this thing05:56
mdzjdub: did you make that bugzilla-daemon change?  there was still a whole load of stuff in the queue, but maybe it was all old05:57
jdubmdz: yeah, changed a while back06:01
=== Gman is now known as GmanAFK
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionemorning guys07:00
jdubyo fabbione 07:06
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fabbionehey jdub 07:10
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pittiGood morning everybody!07:33
HrdwrBoBGood morning!07:34
HrdwrBoB.. afternoon.. whatever your timezone is..07:34
fabbionehey pitti07:43
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fabbionethis gdm behaviour of automatic restarting on upgrades is really really annoying07:45
jdubthat's... unusual07:47
jdubi think there's a debconf setting for that, perhaps yours is borked?07:47
fabbionegdm that starts as soon as possible?07:47
fabbionejdub: mine is normal installation. i don't customize my desktop07:48
=== jdub hasn't had gdm automagically restart on upgrade
fabbioneno no this does not work07:48
fabbionethere were errors while booting07:48
fabbioneand now i can't see them because of gdm starting immediatly07:48
fabbionethere are no debconf settings for gdm07:49
=== fabbione kills gdm in the hope to see the errors
jdub5/09/04 11:30 Cleared Cleared at Destination Customs07:56
jdub^ my laptop :)07:56
jdubwish i could get an rss feed of the shipping status ;)07:56
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danielsjdub: nice :)08:26
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jdub^ rad09:08
jdubseriously rad09:08
danielsyeah, that's mallum's baby09:13
jdub(just found it on his blog)09:14
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jdubdaniels: recordext... not in freedesktop cvs?09:52
jdubmdz: gar, vicious bastard :)09:54
fabbionemdz: no go for me. mail on the way09:55
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=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-6-198.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
seb128hey hey jdub :)10:04
pittiHi seb!10:04
seb128jdub: any progress on the menus plan ? :)10:04
seb128hey pitti 10:04
jdubhaven't had time :|10:05
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jdubi was going to explain ti all, but i'll just send you a layout instead 10:05
lifelessjdub: do we have sanity happening ?10:07
seb128we should be in the "string freeze" phase now :p10:07
jdublifeless: not really10:08
jdubseb128: :-)10:08
jdubseb128: no string changes :010:08
Gmanmenu stripe menu stripe menu stripe! ;)10:09
=== Gman reckons an ubuntu launch button would go down very well too
lifelesswith a soyuz module sound :}10:10
seb128I want a NEEDINFO state in bugzilla10:11
seb128seriously, my list of bugs is full of bugs waiting for informations10:11
lifelessI'm responsible for two of those I think.10:12
seb128rhythmbox crash is from you IIRC10:12
Gmanseb128, isn't there one already?!10:12
lifelessand an acpi bug.10:12
seb128Gman: for GNOME yes, for warty no10:12
lifelessoh, the battery applet preview in the preferences is completely horked.10:12
Gmanseb128, suck, didn't think gnome had patched that bit of bugzilla :/10:13
lifelessin that its not a preview of what you get anymore.10:13
jdublifeless: no it's not10:18
jdublifeless: it's previewing part of the applet we don't turn on10:18
=== jdub does not like battstat's prefs
lifelessif there is no way to turn it on, the preview should go.. right?10:20
jdubwe just have it off by default10:20
lifeless(That siad I really like the bar :[)10:20
jdubyou can turn the batter graph on10:20
=== Gman doesn't like battstat
jdubGman: you're biased10:20
jdubGman: (we should've replaced battstat with battfink)10:20
lifelessjdub: how?10:20
jdublifeless: Appearance > Show battery status10:20
fabbionei am sure if it was "buttslut" instead of "battstat"....10:21
jdublifeless: those prefs are buggy, click a couple of times10:21
lifelessI have it on.10:21
lifelessoh, ok.10:21
lifelessright, thats better. thanks.10:21
jdubseb128: sent10:22
seb128jdub: thanks10:22
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fabbionegdm didn't start on fresh install10:38
fabbionecan anybody reproduce it onm daily crack?10:38
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KamionTOO MUCH MAIL10:42
fabbionehey Kamion 10:42
Kamionfabbione: thanks for sorting #101910:43
pittijdub: thanks for resubscribing!10:43
jdubsun are shipping webmin in solaris10:45
fabbioneKamion: well i just used Matt suggestion, but at least the system is installable10:45
fabbioneKamion: i am not sure is the rigth fix, but it works here10:46
fabbionethat's why the bug is still open10:46
=== fabbione enters the deep doungeon of / on lvm2 on raid1 test again
Kamionfabbione: yeah, sure10:46
Kamionok, guess I should make the installer use these fancy new kernels10:46
Kamionno more local packages in the cdimage tree!10:47
fabbioneKamion: will they be part of sounder 9 ??10:47
Kamionthe next one is 8, not 910:47
fabbioneoh yeah well10:47
fabbionethe last +1 ;)10:47
Kamionprobably, yes; given that we have the crack we may as well smoke it10:48
=== fabbione likes crack.. and smoking
UbuntuBoBa friend has made a function in his IRC bot that quotes me :/11:02
UbuntuBoB<Yoshen> did you point out to them that they are on crack?11:02
pittiKamion: I still try to fix #996 (remember our discussion about the 'disk' group?)11:03
pittiKamion: do you think it is a problem if I change only the removable devices to root:plugdev?11:03
Kamionin udev? that seems to make sense, but I really don't know much about this stuff11:03
pittiKamion: yes, in udev. I have a solution ready11:04
pittiKamion: I'm just askign about the principle11:04
pittiKamion: since you told me that you did not want to break the 'disk' group11:04
KamionI was mostly thinking about in Debian11:06
pittiKamion: by now I only want to change the Warty version11:07
fabbionepitti: what would happen on people upgrading from debian?11:09
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
pittifabbione: if they upgrade udev as well, they get the new behaviour automatically11:10
pittifabbione: that is, if they did not change the config files and rejected upgrading them11:10
KamionI don't think it's a problem for removable devices11:10
pittifabbione: if they don't upgrade udev, they just will get the old behavior11:10
Kamionhm, no actual kernel binaries for me11:10
Kamionmdz: so, what does the latest build failure look like?11:12
fabbioneyuppi... segfault is still reproducible :-)11:20
=== fabbione needs more coffee now
Kamionmmm, coffee, good plan11:36
fabbionebye bye #462!11:40
fabbioneSep  6 11:45:59 trider-g7 rpc.mountd: getfh failed: Operation not permitted11:46
fabbionedoes anybody know what that means?11:46
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KamionEPERM on something, I'd strace it11:47
Kamiongetfh must be a local function in rpc.mountd11:47
fabbionemounting the same export from another machine (in the same lan) works11:47
fabbioneoh different kernels11:48
=== fabbione wonders
fabbionewasn't 2.6.8 having prolems with nfs?11:50
fabbione2.6.7 works11:50
rburton2.6.8 has issues, works11:51
fabbionemorning thom11:51
fabbionerburton: i am using debian kernels11:51
seb128hello thom 11:52
fabbionethey should have the fixes11:52
fabbioneodd... restarting the nfs server fixed the problem11:56
seb128fabbione: about #1045, you're sure the buffer is lost ? IIRC you can switch back to the console11:57
fabbioneseb128: try this: go to console N, do a ls -lR, go to console M and back to N. You cannot do shift+pg up anymore11:58
fabbioneof course given that ls -lR will print out more than one page11:58
seb128oh ok11:58
Kamionjdub: can you remind me what the policy on firmware in the installer was?12:30
Kamionjdub: i.e. should I be adding these new firmware-supporting modules to our d-i?12:30
jdubfirmware == okay12:31
Kamionone wonders how well it'll actually work given that d-i doesn't have the real hotplug in it, just a fake one ...12:32
KamionI suspect "not at all"12:32
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pittiseb128: do you instantly know which package contains the "Computer" menu entries? I would like to translate them completely12:39
seb128which Computer ?12:39
seb128the desktop place, or the menu one ?12:39
pittiseb128: the menu one12:39
pittiseb128: thanks!12:40
seb128I'm making changes according to jdub's mail12:40
seb128and I'll mail the list about new strings to translate after that12:40
pittiseb128: whoopy, did jdub send a mail about this recently? I look in the archives...12:41
seb128just to me12:41
seb128I'm doing the menu changes12:41
pittiseb128: shall I send you the updated po file?12:42
pittiseb128: or jdub?12:42
seb128wait for my change to get the po12:43
seb128I'll put all the po files somewhere with a list of new string to translate and ask for diffs12:44
danielsjdub: er, sure it is12:49
danielsmaybe not in freedesktop.modules12:49
seb128jdub: are you going to put the current evolution-exchange in Debian soon ? Some guys were asking yesterday ...12:52
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fabbioneKamion: mdz wa suggesting to add the module lp in /etc/modules for i38601:11
fabbioneKamion: would it be possible to add ipv6 on all arch too?01:11
KamionI sort of feel that should only be added if netcfg detects that you have an ipv6 network (avoid any issues unless you need to)01:12
Kamionof course, that's kind of predicated on netcfg having ipv6 support01:12
fabbionemake sence.. let's move it to hoary..01:13
fabbionei don't think hacking netcfg now is good01:13
Kamionipv6 support in netcfg should definitely happen upstream01:14
Kamionhm, I have an IPv6 network, just about; I could theoretically do that01:14
fabbionei don't think you can detect an ipv6 network without loading the ipv6 module01:15
fabbionethat means netcfg should load the module and then?01:16
fabbioneeither you wait sometime for autoconfig to grab an ipv6 address01:16
fabbioneor ask?01:16
fabbionebecause you might want to add ipv6 manually01:16
KamionI have no idea, I haven't thought about it :-)01:16
fabbionedhcp+ipv6 is still vaporware01:16
KamionI dunno, I can chuck it in if you think it's a good idea01:17
Kamionis there a risk of ipv4 stuff breaking?01:17
fabbionenot that i am aware of.01:18
fabbioneatleast i run ipv6 here and i didn't notice any breakage01:18
fabbionewell but once you have the script part that stick modules in /etc/modules, make it so that it can accept a list.. we can still change it after mdz will bless it01:18
fabbioneprobably this is the easiest...01:19
fabbioneotherwise i will have to do some work on ifconfig01:19
fabbionethat's not really what i like to do01:19
Kamionfabbione: no need for a script, d-i already has a single command called register-module which does all the work01:22
fabbioneah.. 01:22
fabbionei didn't know.. but it sounds very good :-)01:22
Kamionfabbione: wanna get mdz to ack that addition?01:22
fabbioneyeah i will mail01:23
=== Kamion moves d-i to for i386
=== fabbione gets ready to test
pittiKamion: are there finally images for powerpc?01:31
Kamionpitti: apparently not yet01:33
pittiKamion: thanks. I already thought I missed sth. So d-i will use different kernel versions for different arches?01:34
fabbioneKamion: do you have any pending lock on base-config?01:38
Kamionpitti: d-i's fully capable of doing that, and it already does; it hopefully won't for the final warty release though01:41
Kamionfabbione: not right now01:41
=== Kamion thanks $DEITY^Wjoeyh for new-kernel-checklist.txt
fabbioneKamion: ok i will start preparing the universe/restricted stuff for apt-setup01:42
fabbionebut feel free to change things around01:43
fabbioneit shouldn't be too hard to merge later01:43
KamionI'll be buried in kernel changes for some hours yet, I expect01:43
fabbioneKamion: no problem, because in any case i can't upload. the changes will require the archive to be ready01:44
fabbioneotherwise people will get broken sources.list01:44
fabbione(that i don't think it's nice)01:44
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SteveAI updated / upgraded using synaptic... warty hung.01:46
SteveAon a reboot, the text mode boot up messages had corrupted characters01:47
SteveAthen, gdm wouldn't load01:47
SteveA"There was an error loading the theme ubuntu" "can't open file /usr/share/gdm/themes/ubuntu/ubuntu.xml"01:47
SteveAthe "drawer" in my gnome panel doesn't work any more01:48
SteveAwell, not properly... it opens in a different place to where the drawer is01:48
SteveAmy "sticky notes" are all on desktop 1, with no text in them, and no application.01:48
SteveAI'm guessing that my system is in an awkward state, as it was part way through setting up software when X hung01:49
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KamionSteveA: make sure both gdm and ubuntu-artwork are up-to-date01:57
SteveAthings work better now, after I logged into a text mode console, ran dpkg --configure -a and let it do its stuff.01:59
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=== Kamion wonders if linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 built ...
KamionSteveA: sounds like the best strategy, yeah02:16
KamionI tested with kernel-wedge build-all but that's not 100% accurate02:17
Kamion(was cross-building)02:18
pittisorry, wrong window focus02:24
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debianistfirst router install of ubuntu I think :)02:40
debianistanybody knows if the no-name-com server has limited bandwidth?02:43
Kamionnot especially02:43
debianistam trying to download the daily build, but seems rather SLOW than 2 days ago02:43
Kamionyou're using rsync I hope?02:43
debianiststop my download immediately and rsync it ? (angle icone next my nick)02:44
Kamionwhatever you want02:46
Mithrandirrsync -av --progress --partial is nice02:46
debianistam using gnome download manager. Like it alot02:46
lifelessdebianist: the server doesn't have a bw policy at the moment.02:46
lifelessso you should be able to get all-you-can-eat02:46
debianistok lifeless thanks. 02:46
Kamionfar more likely to be network limits on your end02:46
lifelessor delay-product issues02:47
Mithrandirlifeless: I usually only get around 500kB/sec, which is fairly slow, considering my pipe is a 100Mbit.02:47
Mithrandirand as I'm in .no, the delay is fairly neglible.02:47
MithrandirHcE: --partial keeps partial downloads.  Very nice if you run out of space or something.02:48
KamionI don't know how fat the pipe out of the LAN is02:48
lifelessKamion: 10Mbit ethernet at the moment.02:48
HcEMithrandir: saw that, nice for backup-solutions02:48
lifelessthere is a 1Gb lead there, but AIUI its not plugged in yet :}02:48
Kamionok, I think all the pieces for in d-i are there now02:49
thom100Mbit currently02:49
Kamionjust a matter of waiting for builds etc.02:49
lifelessthom: oh you got it plugged in? cool.02:49
=== lifeless is obviously out of date
thomlifeless: 100, not 100002:49
lifelessthom: is the 1Gb still planned ?02:49
thomwe have a fibre drop02:50
thombut since no-one confirmed it was fibre, nothing to plug it into02:50
elmoKamion: can I remove the 2.6.7 d-i stuff?02:50
lifelessoh, hahahaha.02:50
lifelessthat so doesn't surprise me.02:50
lifelessthat initial hardware purchase was chaotic.02:51
elmokamion: the NBS udebs I mean02:51
Kamionelmo: hm, is it a problem to leave it until the new debian-installer has built, just to make sure?02:51
elmokamion: no that's fine02:51
Kamionafter that, no problem02:51
debianistMithrandir : are you at work or something?? 500kB/sec ???!! The best we can get here is around 3MB download, that is mega BITS02:54
Mithrandirdebianist: university network.02:54
debianistMithrandir : it's lucky if I get to download something in 92k bytes per second.02:54
Mithrandirdebianist: I have a 2.4-3Mbit at home02:55
Mithrandirdebianist: .il is isreal, isn't it?02:56
debianistthe most advanced third world country :)02:56
MithrandirI thought you were fairly well-connected there?02:56
debianistwe are, but the quality of connections here are is so low compared to the states02:56
debianistit's a pain.02:57
Mithrandiroh, ok.02:57
HrdwrBoBhmm yeah I seem to get 200kb/s02:57
debianistI mean we have million types of cellphone, companies that sell advance software and equipment to words biggest coprs and government.02:57
HrdwrBoBfrom a 100mb link02:57
debianistyet, in house we kind'a dumb02:57
debianistI am on the cable infrastructure for the internet access, and there are still region in which they  just cannot overcome the technical difficulties which prevent the service from being relaient02:58
Mithrandirsounds sucky..02:59
HrdwrBoByou think that's bad02:59
HrdwrBoBcome to australia02:59
HrdwrBoBfirst world country02:59
HrdwrBoBthird world service02:59
debianistHrdwrBoB : it is?03:02
debianistHrdwrBoB : well, consider the VAST (and I mean that) distants you have there, you have an exucse..What about israel? a country the size of NYC ? what's our excuse ? :))03:03
=== HrdwrBoB [hrdwrbob@220-253-15-102.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== debianist is anxiuosly waiting for his warty daily to download...
ploumWill the CD 8 be released today ?03:04
HrdwrBoBI swear to god I am going to kill the person that made ctrl+x quit03:04
Kamionploum: probably :-)03:04
debianistany fixes from the one built on saturday ?03:04
Kamiondebianist: totally different kernel? :)03:04
HrdwrBoBdebianist: I got a flyer in my mailbox, $80/month for 2gb.03:04
ploumKamion, so I will wait and hang around there before testing :-)03:04
ik5pvxdebianist, for start, you could complain to your ISP and tell them to buy more bandwidth from their upstream (which I happen to work for ;-)03:04
Kamionploum: might be quite late today though03:04
HrdwrBoBdebianist: also, vast distances, but almost the entirety of the population is fairly closely living in the capital cities03:05
debianistik5pvx : Global ONe?03:05
debianistik5pvx : AT&T ? :)03:05
debianistik5pvx : funny enough, the ISP has nothing to do with it. They're the coolest ISP here in israel, however in order to give you cable broadband, they MUST relay on the cable company infrastructure, and those guys, they SUCK BIGTIME03:06
ik5pvxah, I see... it's the final piece of wire that sucks... oh well03:06
debianistBTW : do we need a ubuntu hebrew translator?03:08
debianistor is there someone already on this?03:08
debianistik5pvx : which one do you work for?03:09
=== debianist is wondering where is the place to find about changes from on daily to another.
pittiseb128: I'm taking care of the German translation of gnome-panel03:15
seb128pitti: ok03:15
Kamiondebianist: we don't really have a translation infrastructure at the moment; we will eventually03:18
debianistKamion : Well, I'll start the hebrew, when the infrastructre realized, it would be ready 03:19
debianistwhat parts besdies gnome and d-i  (which I believe have mostly been localized) need localization?03:20
KamionThe d-i Ubuntu branding for Hebrew was pretty straightforward, IIRC; it's not one of the languages where proper nouns seem to get declined.03:21
debianistKamion : please explain "branding" ?03:22
Mithrandirdebianist: s/Debian/Ubuntu/, basically03:22
pittiseb128: I just noticed an error in the English gnome-panel sources: there is no word "informations", it's information.03:22
seb128should be information or informations ?03:23
pittiseb128: maybe you want to send an updated mail? Or just do a sed -i 's/informations/information/g'?03:23
pittiseb128: just "information"03:23
debianistMithrandir : oh03:23
seb128pitti: "Display informations about Ubuntu", you would remove the "s" to information in this string ?03:24
debianistdoes ubuntu allow for resize of a FAT32 or an already existing ext3 one for install?03:24
thomseb128: ^03:25
seb128ok, so please reply to the mail on the list with the corrections03:25
seb128so everybody works on the right strings03:25
seb128I'll adapt the sources on the next upload03:25
=== thom -> install latest daily i386
debianistKamion : most of hebrew strings for ubuntu already exist?03:26
pittiseb128: Okay, I'll followup03:27
Kamiondebianist: should do03:28
debianistKamion : you mean take them from sarge's d-i? something like that?03:29
debianistand I guess d-i's docs about localization apply all the way down :)03:33
Kamionmore or less, although we're trying to avoid diverging too much unnecessarily as it makes changes hard to merge03:35
debianistubuntu is supposed to feed debian back with it's patches and improvments. 03:37
debianistKamion : where lies the list of changes between daily builds?03:37
=== fabbione gets spammed by the BTS
Kamiondebianist: there's none in that exact form; there's a warty-changes list (no idea if it's generally readable)03:39
pittiseb128: shall we add a complete po file header or are the translations itself enough?03:39
debianistKamion : basically, there are locale strings for each language right? All I have to do is take the english translation and replace the strings03:39
seb128pitti: the translation of the string is enough, I'll just append it to the nn.po files03:40
Kamiondebianist: if you're not already familiar with gettext-based translation, look for documentation elsewhere on that; there's plenty in any number of free software projects03:40
debianistKamion : ok, google is my best freind :)03:43
debianistKamion : BTW any success with using gnome-volume-manager and dbus-1 under ubuntu?03:43
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Kamiondebianist: dunno, I'm just the installer guy ...03:47
debianistKamion : installer guy? you make the installer?03:48
Kamiondoes anyone here have one of those ipw2100 or ipw2200 wireless network cards?03:48
Kamiondebianist: I lead the Ubuntu work on debian-installer and CD image production, yes.03:48
Kamiondoesn't leave me much spare time :)03:50
debianistKamion : oh right. reagrding CD image production, I'm offering my help in making the live CD, I said that before right? :)03:52
Kamiondebianist: you'll have to talk to Alex de Landgraaf about that, he's the live CD guy ...03:52
debianistdebianist : plus I'd be cool helping you whenever you feel you collapse under the pressure :)03:52
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Kamionthe actual live CD build process (when it becomes really official) will require login access to our servers, so it'll probably have to be employed-people-only for now; hopefully eventually things will be in a form where we can take patches in some convenient way03:54
debianistKamion : hmm, so ubuntu is targated at being an employed only distro?  :(03:57
debianistKamion :  Alex de Landgraaf has an email address ? something of that sort?03:58
Kamiondebianist: not at all; just certain bits are still hard to do community cooperation on, because we haven't quite got ourselves set up for it yet04:01
Kamionwe're still setting a lot of community things up04:01
Kamionhence "for now" :-)04:02
thomhrm, gdm didn't get started when base-config finished04:02
thomand X still ends up one res too low04:03
thom(current daily)04:03
Kamionthom: any errors during base-config?04:03
thomKamion: no04:03
debianistKamion : oh i see. say kamion, what would you think would be the criteria for future hiring by Canonical?04:04
KamionI wouldn't like to presume04:05
pitti@all: if I do 'gksudo something' from the console, gksudo segfaults at the end, regardless of what command I'm executing. Does this occurr only at my box?04:05
seb128pitti: are you sure that's an utf-8 file ? I've weird chars in utf-8 and iso modes ...04:05
pittiseb128: I'm looking again at it04:06
fabbionethom: ah, it happened to you too? (the gdm start)...04:06
fabbionethom: for the resolution too low, we need to change xresprobe.04:06
fabbionethom: X doesn't guess or scale anything. It just accept xresprobe output as-is04:07
pittiseb128: maybe the mta/mua messed it up. I send it again gzipped04:07
seb128ok, thanks04:07
thomfabbione: it's the old thing - i get 1280x1024 added to the end of the line, but this is an lcd monitor, and that's the native res04:07
fabbionethom: yes. i remember that... we need to change xresprobe to not sort resolutions04:08
fabbionetho it won't work on my machine...04:08
fabbionebut i guess the others have higher priority04:08
pittiseb128: does gksudo crash at the end on your box?04:11
=== fabbione needs to learn how to use lvm snapshots
seb128pitti: at the end of what ?04:14
=== Kamion uploads may-work-if-you're-really-really-lucky-no-I-can't-test-this firmware loading support for d-i
pittiseb128: see above. whenever I execute 'gksudo whatever' I get a segfault at the end04:16
pittiseb128: just type 'gksudo true' in a terminal04:16
seb128pitti: no, doesn't crash04:17
seb128pitti: the translation is ok this time04:19
pittiseb128: odd. thanks for trying.04:19
debianistKamion : this is PowerPC firmware support?04:20
Kamionarchitecture-independent; it's for drivers (mostly for network cards) that need binary-only firmware04:21
thompitti: gksudo works fine here, too, fwiw04:23
elmohas anyone uploaded anything to restricted yet, btw?  if not, please shout when you do, I'm not sure it'll work ;)04:23
fabbioneelmo: what happens if we do a foobar upload to test?04:23
Kamionelmo: remind me what the policy there is? firmware seems to be headed into main ...04:23
elmokamion: non-free software, e.g. binary only drivers04:24
elmofabbione: might as well wait until there's something to actually upload to there04:25
elmokamion: (that we want to ship and support (as far as the license allows))04:25
elmokamion: and under the liberal, "non-free software" means "software programs running on the host CPU" definition04:25
fabbioneelmo: we can start with NVIDIA crap :-)04:26
pittithom: thanks for testing. This is odd... Maybe a powerpc specific thing. I'll debug this, I don't like crashing root programs04:30
Kamionelmo: aha, ok04:32
Kamionelmo: did the most recent debian-installer upload build, or did it crap out hideously?04:33
elmokatie@jackass:/srv/ftp.no-name-yet.com$ m debian-installer -S04:33
elmodebian-installer-manual | 20040801ubuntu8 |         warty | amd64, i386, powerpc04:33
Kamionah, just not on the mirrors04:34
Kamion... there it goes04:35
debianistcan anyone suggest where would help needed currently in ubuntu? besides testing?04:45
fabbioneKamion: testing now04:45
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Kamionfabbione: testing which?04:46
fabbioneKamion: d-i 2.6.804:46
fabbioneKamion: from ubuntu8 that it just hitted acukland04:46
Kamionthat was quick, I only just built the CDs04:46
fabbioneKamion: netinstall :)04:46
fabbionewell it's installing base now04:47
debianistjust testing?04:49
fabbionedebianist: any kind of testing is important04:49
debianistfabbione : ok, I have today's daily downloading and I am going to install a simple router system..Guess I am going to test the "Custom" seed04:50
Kamioncustom isn't a seed :-)04:50
debianistoops a d-i task04:50
Kamiondamn, forgot to document custom in the latest d-i upload, oh well04:51
debianistI'm still pretty confused about those04:51
fabbioneKamion: well first d-i stage is completed.. rebooting now04:51
Kamionseeds are really for internal distribution management, they aren't supposed to be exposed to users04:51
debianistKamion : are you talking about code documentation or task ?04:51
KamionI don't know what you mean ...04:52
Kamionseeds are used to generate the list of base packages for debootstrap, the list of what gets installed by default, the list of what goes on the CD, and the list of what goes in the archive04:52
Kamionthat's all04:52
Kamionapart from that you can pretend they don't exist :)04:53
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=== debianist is feeling like a warthog on hold :)
=== Mithrandir sends debianist a SIGCONT
=== debianist goes out of hold, restarts and resume on hold state :)
=== debianist wish his warty iso image would finish downloading already.
elmothe new init stuff is ugly as sin if you're not on the console :(05:00
debianistelmo : you don't get to see nothing if you're not at the console. only some ubuntu artwork and a progress bar05:00
elmosorry, init.d stuff05:01
Kamiondebianist: the splash screen changes actually didn't make it into warty; they've been postponed until the next release05:02
debianistKamion : oh, having seen this on the ubuntu live cd made me think this how the boot looks05:03
Kamionthe live CD is strange in a lot of ways still05:04
lamontKamion: sounder8 is available?05:07
Kamionlamont: not quite05:08
=== lamont goes back to lurking
fabbioneping ping05:08
lamontactually, today is work on the van day, since it's putatively a holiday.05:08
=== Kamion is burning an i386 candidate at the moment
fabbione[Lag 65]  <- something is not really working05:10
fabbioneKamion: 2.6.8 is a go for me05:10
fabbionehey lamont 05:11
MithrandirKamion: have you had any reports about successful amd64 installs?05:11
Kamionfabbione: did base-installer do the right thing, namely install linux-image-2.6-386?05:11
fabbioneKamion: i was checking right now :-)05:11
KamionMithrandir: mdz said something about grub working now; I killed the broken local grub package from the cdimage tree this morning, so if any image will work then it'll be the current one05:12
MithrandirKamion: ok, cool.05:12
fabbioneKamion: i would say yes05:12
MithrandirI'll give it a shot when it releases, then05:12
KamionMithrandir: there's a suitable daily up now05:12
fabbioneKamion: and of course as dependency linux-image-
Kamionfabbione: excellent05:13
fabbioneKamion: good job :)05:13
fabbionenow.. let see what happens upgrading a normal box05:13
MithrandirKamion: ok, but my amd64 system is home ATM, and I'm not there until tonight05:13
thomKamion: my only showstopper now is that grub-installer doesn't add noapic to menu.lst :/05:13
thom(given that i booted the installer with noapic05:14
Kamionthom: there've been fixes for that upstream, I can import them, probably not for this release though05:14
thomok. cool05:16
Kamiondamn, all this ipw2[12] 00 stuff is BIG05:16
=== Kamion is tempted to make a separate nic-firmware-modules udeb or something
=== debianist [~debianist@] has joined #ubuntu
Kamion... except nic-extra-modules already depends on firmware-modules, oh well05:18
debianistwhat's npmccallum-bootsplash/current ?05:18
Kamionan old experiment05:18
debianistI noticed it's slightly lighter than the daily05:18
Kamionthat's because it's based on a very old daily that didn't contain a number of the packages that the current one does05:19
debianisthmm. I tought I was asking one question too many, thanks for the exposure :)05:20
Kamionthom: the same goes for one of my laptops and acpi=off05:20
Oskuroseb128: bah, my post to sounder got stuck because I didn't use the correct from.05:21
Oskurowho's listadmin?05:21
seb128jdub I think05:22
debianistcurrently there's only one mailing list for the canonical team?05:22
=== Oskuro resends again
fabbionewe can build nvidia kernel module directly on the buildd05:23
Kamionugh, why is my orinoco_cs card not being detected?05:23
fabbioneKamion: i can't test more than this.. but it looks good to me05:29
SteveAwhat should I have in /etc/sudoers in a default warty install ?05:29
fabbione# Added by Ubuntu installer05:30
fabbioneDefaults:<username> timestamp_timeout=005:30
fabbione<username> ALL=(ALL) ALL05:30
SteveAI don't have that05:31
SteveAI guess because I installed before it was so05:31
fabbioneSteveA: good catch ;)05:31
fabbionethom: did you report gdm not starting on a fresh install?05:32
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thomfabbione: no, will do05:34
fabbionethom: i can do it.. don't worry05:37
thomseb128: dude05:38
=== seb128 hides
fabbionei am not sure it's a gdm or base-config problem here05:38
fabbionethom: gdm?05:39
seb128thom: what ?05:39
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thomseb128: fresh install. gedit appears to be http handler again05:39
thomfabbione: base-config, i guess05:40
seb128thom: same problem, gconf key for enable off ?05:41
fabbionethom: no. it's gdm init script05:42
thomseb128: yeah05:43
thomseb128: both http and https have command and enabled set to <no value>05:43
fabbionethom: base-config calls gdm restart, but the init script dies on stop (probably because gdm is not running and the lsd^Hb stuff doesn't like it)05:44
Kamionoh, not MORE initscript breakage05:44
=== thom beats npmccallum with a big stick
fabbioneif i add a || true to start-stop-daemon call it works05:44
thombaby jesus is weeping now05:45
Kamionthat doesn't sound like the right fix05:45
Kamion--oknodo on the --stop maybe?05:45
seb128thom: LC_ALL=C HOME=/root GCONF_CONFIG_SOURCE=`gconftool-2 --get-default-source` gconftool-2 --makefile-install-rule /usr/share/gconf/schemas/desktop_gnome_url_handlers.schemas && killall gconfd-2 and then look at the key again helps ?05:46
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fabbioneKamion: i just checked the reason why it was failing05:46
fabbioneKamion: i know it's not the proper fix05:47
seb128thom: oups, s#/usr/share/#/etc/#05:47
Kamionfabbione: sure05:47
fabbionebut generally this lsb thingy is on crack05:47
thomseb128: same05:49
seb128thom: very weird05:49
=== Kamion bangs his head against several brick walls and decides to fall back to Sounder 7 to make sure the hardware's actually still working
seb128thom: could you check the schema file, the <default>true</default> value ?05:50
MithrandirKamion: please don't destroy your head, it's a very nice and useful head to have around05:50
Kamionif I knew which of ddetect, discover1, discover1-data, the kernel, or my hardware to blame, it would help05:51
Mithrandirstill the orinoco problem?05:51
thomseb128: i don't have a .gconf/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/ 05:54
Kamionyeah; I can't even figure out how discover finds orinoco_cs, or if it's entirely hotplugged, or what05:54
seb128thom: if you have not changed any value that's normal05:54
seb128thom: ~/.gconf is for user settings, ie: if you change from default values05:54
rburtonKamion: for me, orinoco_cs is loaded my the pcmcia layer05:54
MithrandirKamion: I think it's handled by hotplug or pcmcia_cs05:54
thomso, where should i be looking? /etc/gconf/schemas/desktop_gnome_url_handlers.schemas ?05:55
KamionMithrandir: that sounds right, but that makes it kernel breakage :(05:55
seb128thom: for the schema value yes05:55
MithrandirKamion: what kernel version?05:56
KamionMithrandir:, new kernels in warty05:56
fabbionethis sucks05:56
thom <key>/schemas/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command</key>05:56
thom      <applyto>/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command</applyto>05:56
thom      <owner>gnome</owner>05:56
thom      <type>string</type>05:56
thom      <default>mozilla-firefox %s</default>05:56
fabbionewith all the changes we did to X build system, S390 almost managed to install...05:56
fabbioneit failed at like 99.5% 05:56
seb128thom: and the enable one ?05:56
fabbioneas usual.. not enough space05:56
thomdefault is true05:57
seb128hum, ok05:57
seb128and do you have a /etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/%gconf.xml ?05:57
thom <entry name="command" mtime="1094485698" schema="/schemas/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command"/>05:57
thom        <entry name="enabled" mtime="1094485698" schema="/schemas/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/enabled"/>05:57
seb128all seems fine :(05:58
MithrandirKamion: hm :/05:58
seb128in gconf-editor, if you browse the schemas tree, the key is in it ?05:58
thomi will create a test user and see if it happens there05:58
thomseb128: yeah05:59
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thomtest@fandango ~ $ gconftool-2  -R /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http06:05
thom needs_terminal = false06:05
thom  command = (no value set)06:05
thom   enabled = (no value set)06:05
thombrand new user06:06
Kamionlsb initscripts broke PCMCIA in d-i06:08
seb128thom: thinking about it ...06:10
seb128thom: any way to strace -e open ?06:10
=== Kamion is not happy about these changes happening at this point
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-7-239.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
thomKamion: you and me and everyone else,too06:11
thomi think06:11
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
seb128hey kagou 06:12
seb128kagou: please reply to the comment on bug reports06:12
seb128kagou: I've added 2 comments in 4 days on the samba bug ....06:13
kagouok seb12806:13
seb128kagou: you don't get the mails from bugzilla ?06:13
KeybukKamion: yeah, we've been making far too many "feature" changes too close to the release06:13
KeybukI think next time having an open grumpy branch/repository will help eliminate that a little06:14
fabbioneKamion: i think we should rediscuss this LSD thing and revert it completely06:14
kagouseb128, i was not here since 1 day06:14
Kamionall these initscript changes are extremely hard to review and have so far broken the installer in two variously subtle way06:14
KamionI fully expect more breakage06:14
Kamionfabbione: it's got Mark's total backing, we're doomed06:15
fabbioneKamion: i don't think so06:15
fabbionewe can still propose to revert the changes with the facts that they break A LOT06:15
Kamionwell, I'm going to fix this one up somehow, since it's either that or no Sounder 806:16
KamionI can't release with broken PCMCIA06:16
fabbionewell gdm needs love too06:16
fabbioneand probably many others we didn't notice06:17
fabbioneanyway i need to go for a while now06:17
Kamiona compatibility shim in rootskel is probably easiest for PCMCIA06:17
Kamion-           /sbin/cardmgr $CARDMGR_OPTS06:20
Kamion+           /sbin/cardmgr $CARDMGR_OPTS 2>/dev/null06:20
KamionI'm also unhappy about rubbish like this06:20
Kamionprettiness is not a justification for throwing away errors06:20
thomKamion: but you can't colour stderr!06:21
KeybukI guess chat to mdz, and get him to chat to Mark/Nathaniel is the right way to do that06:21
Mithrandirthom: why can't you?06:21
thomMithrandir: i was being sarcastic06:22
Mithrandirthom: :P06:22
Keybukthe trouble with this stuff is that usplash is the right way to do it, entirely hide stdout/stderr06:24
Keybukand when you've got usplash, you *want* as verbose a start-up screen as possible, so don't want all this pretty06:24
Kamionlooking at the API, if this is what the LSB recommends then colour me extremely unimpressed06:25
Kamionit's practically designed to encourage non-robust init scripts06:25
Keybukaye, I wasn't impressed with the start/stop changes06:26
Keybukwhich reminds me, thom: found a bug in the apache2 init script I think; when it does invoke-rc.d apache2 force-reload in the postinst it force-starts apache2 if it wasn't running, and as force-reload doesn't check /etc/rcX.d it means you end up with apache2 running when you don't want it06:27
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-251-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu
sabdflhi all06:30
thomKeybuk: hrm, yeah. that's a bug06:31
Mithrandirhi Mark06:32
seb128hey sabdfl 06:33
thomseb128: to add to the fun, the preffered-applications app segfaults06:33
sabdflgood to be back in the bandwidth game!06:33
seb128thom: have you straced it ?06:34
Keybuksabdfl: still in .za or back in .uk again?06:35
sabdflstill in .za, here till Sunday06:35
thomseb128: strace _what_?06:35
seb128thom: gconftool-2 -R ...06:35
thomopen("/usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/GConf2.mo", O_RDONLY) = 1206:37
thomonly thing that looks remotely useful06:38
seb128thom: could you try to register the schema in C locale ?06:38
thomFailed to write "/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/schemas/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/%gconf.xml": Failed to open "/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults/schemas/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/%gconf.xml.new": Permission denied06:40
seb128are you root ?06:40
Keybukb...b...bu...bu...but I'm ROOT!06:41
thomLC_ALL=C   gconftool-2  -R /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http  needs_terminal = false06:44
thom command = mozilla-firefox %s06:44
thom enabled = true06:44
seb128problem with your locale06:45
thomcare to fix it? :P06:46
seb128I've a gconf hacker in query :)06:46
thomtell mark to fix it faster then ;-)06:46
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
seb128that's not mark, I try to not bother the same people all the time :p06:48
sabdflthom: what's the deal with sound on the X40?06:50
thomsabdfl: you should have snd_8x0m loaded06:52
thomand thus, it should all work06:55
thom(and hotplug does that for me)06:55
sabdflthom: snd_intel8x0?06:55
sabdflyes that's loaded06:55
sabdflbut aplay foo.wav doesn't do anything06:56
thomalsamixer show you have things loaded?06:56
thom(and do you have volumes turned up)06:56
sabdflhmm... turned out to be PCM volume turned down. I've never edited that, why is the volume not a sane default?06:57
thombecause alsa isn't vaguely sane06:59
Mithrandiralso, what's a sane default?07:00
=== lamont gets dragged out the door
sabdflthom: and... what's the plan to make it *just work*?07:06
sabdflfor example, if there are no stored settings, can we detect PCM and master volumes and set them to 70%?07:06
pittiand, unmute them (master was muted on all computers I encountered so far)07:07
thomsane defaults relate to the soundcard, the speakers, and a stack of other stuff07:09
thomif you turn a master up to 70% and the person has headphones on, you could blow their ears off07:09
=== ploum__ [~ploum@211-238.243.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
pittithom: we could set PCM to 70%, unmute master and leave master at 0. Many users will be able to find the loudspeaker icon in the gnome panel and drag it up07:11
thompitti: that would seem saner07:11
pittithom: but many will not try to look for a separate mixer application to control the other channels07:11
thompitti: right click on the loudspeaker, open volume control, same as windows07:12
pittithom: oh, okay. I don't know Windows :-)07:12
pittithom: so far I even have to get to know GNOME07:13
pittithom: (I'm an old text console freak and it's hard to change such habits)07:13
sabdflsetting master to 0 is no better than mute.07:20
sabdflat least set it to 5007:20
=== fabbione can't use 50% with his card/speaker.. it would break walls and windows!
fabbionehey sabdfl :-)07:21
sabdflthat way the user thinks "oh, the sound is too low", then immediately finds the volume control and turns it up07:21
sabdflfabbione: yo!07:21
Keybuksabdfl: interesting that that doesn't apply for 0% though ...07:21
KeybukI guess the slightly audible noise makes them turn it up, but no noise makes them assume it's broken07:21
fabbionesabdfl: i suggest a mosedt 20 to 30%07:22
fabbioneno more than that07:22
fabbionepeople can perceive "noise"07:22
=== fabbione heads to the kitchen
pittifabbione, sabdfl: if I leave my mixers below 50%, I cannot hear *anything*, not even noise07:24
pittiif sound cards have such massively diverging amplification characteristics, we should keep the default low to be on the safe side07:25
Keybukpitti: very :-/  my pc downstairs is plugged in to the DTS amp ... ESD beeps at anything greater than about 5-10% break windows07:26
Mithrandirhi mdz07:27
=== debianist overviews the material written for ubuntu know how and start up , and suggests starting to work on a documentation repository. first doc in it would be "About Ubuntu" , "First Steps With Ubuntu" all targeted at the non technical user
pittiHmm. This means that the safest default is really 0% for master and sth reasonable for PCM07:27
pittimdz: Good morning!07:27
Mithrandirpitti: or 2% to usually make _some_ noise.07:27
pittiMithrandir: All computers I know of need at least 60% to produce sth audible, so 2% is not much different from 0...07:28
mdzI'm not entirely sure we can change that easily07:28
mdzI think it may be set by the driver07:28
pittiMithrandir: what the hell did you connect your sound card with? A 1000 W amplifier? :-)07:28
debianistyeey! my warty iso finished downloading.07:28
Mithrandirpitti: my laptop needs that, but my home box is a lot happier with ~10-20%07:28
debianistoff to my CDRW drive07:28
Mithrandirpitti: nah, a 35W amp and a 100W amp07:28
pittiMithrandir: just kidding.07:28
Mithrandirand I like to adjust the volume with my computer, so I turn the amps up07:29
=== pitti thinks about a clever speaker-microphone feedback volume autodetection thingy
thompitti: you have -2 weeks ;-)07:29
Keybukor FAQ "Why can I hear no sound?"  "Did you turn the volume up?  Did you?  Bet you didn't?  Bet the volume's turned down, or even muted?  You FOOL! PLUG IT IN!" <g>07:30
pittithom: should be more than enough :-)07:30
Keybukthough that's just reminded me that the old SB manuals did used to have "Is the computer turned on?" under the "I hear no sound" troubleshooting07:30
pittithom: no, seriously, if we break a single window with the default, somebody will kill us, or do sth even worse07:31
sabdflfabbionne - how loud is it if everything is at 70%?07:31
pittiKeybuk: "Did you have turned on your ears?"07:31
thomsabdfl: 70% on my desktop will just about bounce a monitor off my desk07:31
pittithom: could make a nice startup animation :-)07:32
Keybukyeah, 70% on desktop upstairs would probably quite effectively annoy people down the road; 70% downstairs would quite effectively annoy elmo, 100 miles away07:32
pittiKeybuk: do you have a weapon certificate for this thing?07:32
sabdflkeybuk: that's just insane, what if some cutie using your pc turns the volume up and then plays something?07:33
Keybuksabdfl: they go deaf.07:33
sabdflshould always have it so 100% won't break things07:33
Keybukheh, the computer upstairs is plugged into my old pro-logic amp07:33
Keybukthe computer downstairs is plugged into a THX-certified DTS amp07:33
sabdfldoesn't matter what it's plugged into.07:34
pittisabdfl: BTW, do your hotplug USB drives finally work automatically? Last time we did not come to debug it. 07:34
thompoint being, there's a reason debian ships the mixer muted07:34
sabdflset the volume control on the amp so that a 100% soundcard output still won't blow it07:34
Keybukoh, it won't blow the amp07:34
Keybukthe amp has no problem with 100% input ... it outputs it pretty good too07:34
sabdflpitti: they are getting mounted correctly now, but nautilus isn't popping up to display the files07:34
Keybukit tends to blow nearby eardrums though07:34
sabdflkeybuk then that's your bug :-)07:35
pittisabdfl: does the device appear in the Computer window?07:35
Keybukthough, taking a different POV for a minute07:35
KeybukI suspect mute is actually a really *good* default anyway07:35
Keybukthinking of laptop-users-on-the-train kind of scenario07:36
sabdfloh! I just plugged in a device and it popped up perfectly!07:36
sabdflcool - must be this afternoon's update - thanks pitti!07:36
KeybukI'm surprised there aren't more killings from people opening their Macs at 7.45am when everyone else on the train is trying to sleep07:36
=== pitti jumps for joy
thomKeybuk: *g*07:36
sabdflkeybuk: no it's not, people expect sound to work, and they can turn it off if they want to07:37
Keybuksabdfl: or turn it on if they want to?07:37
pittiKeybuk: there is a nice MacOS X application to disable this annoying startup sound07:37
KeybukI suspect the real problem is that it's not immediately obvious the sound is working, and just muted07:37
KeybukI get a red slash through the speaker, which does somewhat suggest "sound not working"07:38
pittisabdfl: it *could* be today's update, depending on the type of device you have. But it's good to hear that it works now07:38
sabdfl"red slash through the speaker" is "YOUR SOUND CARD IS BROKEN"07:38
sabdflthere needs to be a slightly more gentle mute indicator :-)07:38
sabdflpitti: works now, didn't this morning :-)07:38
Keybukand then it wouldn't matter what the default was ... if it was obvious when you glanced at the speaker than it was just muted, you'd instinctively raise the volume07:39
mdza gag in the speaker's mouth?07:39
sabdflkeybuk: yes, it could work that way, but the normal person expects sound to work07:39
mdzKamion: file a bug about that 2>/dev/null, please07:39
sabdflhow else can you tell the difference between a PC where sound is *not* working, and one where it is simply still muted?07:39
Keybuksabdfl: playing a sound and checking the volume07:40
sabdflum, after wasting time surfing the net with a gnawing sensation that this Ubuntu thing was a bad idea...,07:40
mdzKamion: i386 kernel built fine; powerpc and amd64 weren't implemented until this morning07:40
mdzI'll be doing a new upload soon07:40
sabdflplease, let's just set it to quiet defaults. 99.9% of people do NOT have their laptop or computer hooked to the local cinema sound system.07:41
Keybukheh, I'd be happy with a 25%-50% default to be fair :p07:41
Keybukpeople for who that's loud (desktop users, mainly) will turn it down on the first beep, people for who it's quiet (laptop users) will turn it up if they want07:41
Mithrandirmdz: are you making sure that the amd64 kernel has the bd_claim patch applied?07:42
Keybukthe issue is how easy that is to do ... I suspect it's embedded deep in the kernel/device layer for each different soundcard :-(07:42
sabdflfabbione: this is for first-time install07:42
mdzMithrandir: all arches have it07:43
sabdflI have *always* found that a sane default is 70% on PCM, 70% on Master07:43
mdzLinux ubuntu #1 Sat Sep 4 04:05:46 PDT 2004 x86_64 GNU/Linux07:44
mdzLinux warty #1 Sat Sep 4 06:33:43 PDT 2004 ppc GNU/Linux07:44
Mithrandirmdz: ok, cool.07:44
Mithrandirmdz: 2.6.7 in ubuntu does not have it, IIRC07:44
mdzMithrandir: right, this is Herbert's kernel07:44
mdzwhich includes bd-claim07:44
Mithrandirgoodie, goodie.07:45
Mithrandirit's uploaded now?07:45
=== debianist installing warty under QEMU
mdzMithrandir: no, but it will be shortly07:45
mdzI assume it will need some love from lamont and elmo07:45
mdzhaving about 800 NEW binary packages07:45
Keybuksabdfl: yeah, but then you find someone who it's not only a good default but destroys their system ... and you find a nice lawsuit on your desk the next morning :-/07:45
debianistwhat's "detecting hardware" ? :) discover working with hotplug something?07:46
sabdflok, think about this07:46
mdzdebianist: discover, actually07:47
sabdflit could only destroy their system if they've hooked it up to something through line-out07:47
sabdfland then hooked that up to speakers that cannot handle it07:47
debianistmdz : ok, the installer looks nice, works damn fast under QEMU07:47
mdzdebianist: you should see it on real hardware :-)07:47
sabdfl100% output from the soundcard is the same as 100% from a CD line-out07:47
mdzyes, it should be no different than plugging in any other audio device07:47
sabdflso then, if they plugged in a CD to the line-out, and played it, it would blow their system07:47
mdzyou need to be careful with the level if you're plugging it into an amp07:47
debianistmdz : i'd like to install it on my pIV 2.6c GHZ D865PERL machine :)07:48
debianistmdz : I need to release some space off the sid's parition07:48
mdzsabdfl: one difference is that some PCs have a line out which doubles as an amplified output07:48
Keybukyou have to be careful *both* ways ... underpowering an input can be just as bad to an amp/device as over-powering it07:48
sabdflnow, i don't think anyone would believe it was a reasonable claim if you setup your amp so stupidly, then plugged in a CD07:48
mdzstill, if someone's system is about to be blown, they'd hear a loud HUMMM and CLICK when they connect it07:48
sabdflwhy can underpowering be bad?07:48
sabdfland a CD in this case is no different to Warty07:49
Mithrandirmdz: only if they hotplug it.07:49
Mithrandirsabdfl: CD players have well-defined output levels.  Sound cards don't.07:49
mdzMithrandir: they should still get a rather loud hum regardless07:49
Mithrandirmdz: not if you have a good sound card. :)07:49
mdzcomputer audio outputs are _noisy_07:50
Keybukmdz: not to mention dirty07:50
Keybukyou'd expect random white noise as you moved the mouse if you got it wrong07:50
mdzsome of mine play an enchanting little tune when the CPU is busy07:50
MithrandirI guess I'm weird, then.  Having a ~150USD sound card with RCA connectors and all.07:50
MithrandirI think they might be gold-plated, even, as well.07:51
mdzon this ppc system, I've added therm-windtunnel to /etc/modules07:51
mdzbut it _never_ gets loaded at boot07:51
mdzbut when I log in and modprobe it, it works fine07:51
mdzelmo: ping?07:51
elmomdz: ?07:51
mdzelmo: uploading a new linux-source- which produces about 3x as many binary packages07:52
mdzelmo: could you see that it gets the love it needs?07:52
elmomdz: yeah07:52
debianistChoosing the "Logical volume manager" says it needs to write changes to disk, when I allow it to, and choose finish and continue I get a red screen telling "no root fileystem detected, please go back and fix thsi"07:52
mdzit's in the queue on jackass for the next */3007:53
debianistafter that, when choosing "manually edit paritions" I get nothing and it goes back to "Partition Disks[!] "07:53
debianistmanual edit is no longer supoprted?07:54
debianistconfiguring logical volume manager only worked after choosing "erase entire pasrition"07:55
debianistunder the "Guided partitioning"07:55
mdzKamion: so the current amd64 daily should be a good one?07:57
mdzherbert's finished with the box for now, so I can do a reinstall07:58
Mithrandirmdz: I would be very interested if anything breaks. :)07:58
mdzMithrandir: you tested it already?07:59
Mithrandirno, I'm at the student society getting dirty with PHP coding07:59
MithrandirI intend to test it when I get home, if it's not too late07:59
=== mdz hoses off Mithrandir
mdzit's never too late for more testing :-)08:00
Mithrandirmore that it's too late for me; I got home at ~04 last wednesday.08:00
thomi'll test tomorrow's daily08:01
Keybukgah, this is going to get confusing08:08
Keybukthere's now -ac branches of 2.608:08
mdzpitti: my card reader still comes up as root:disk 066008:09
mdzoh, I need 2.6.808:09
mdzfortunately, it's already in the archive ready to go :-)08:09
fabbionesabdfl: i understand it's for first-time install.. if i had my speakers on at 70% i would have issues with the neighbours ;)08:10
fabbionesabdfl: possibly.. they will start commenting on my work: "oh no.. he is installing ubuntu again" <g>08:11
mdzfabbione: have you tested the kernel?08:11
fabbionemdz: yes, both from d-i and upgrading from kernel-image. on i386 is a GO for me08:11
mdzfabbione: from d-i?  I didn't realize that was possible08:12
mdzoh, you did a netboot?08:12
fabbionemdz: also.. i found a way to build the nvidia kernel without the running kernel. i might package all the stuff and test restricted tomorrow or so08:12
fabbionemdz: yes. netboot08:12
mdzfabbione: oh, excellent. thanks for testing it08:12
mdzit's working great for me on all 3 architectures08:12
fabbionemdz: no problem :-)08:12
fabbionei only have i386 atm and it will be so for a while...08:13
mdzthere are many people asking for powerpc to test08:13
mdzit should be built shortly08:13
mdzamd64 should also, but there are very few amd64 sounders I tihnk08:13
Keybuk^ oh, wow...  I'm going to try that <g>08:13
mdzKeybuk: fixing suspend with radeonfb?08:14
Keybukmdz: allegedly so08:14
mdzpitti: still here?08:16
pittimdz: I am.08:16
pittimdz: sorry, xchat makes no noise on ppc08:16
fabbioneKeybuk: is that a kernel patch?08:16
mdzpitti: it's looking quite good with the current hal and udev!08:16
pittimdz: and my workstation is broken08:16
pittimdz: thanks!08:16
mdzpitti: I connect my card reader, and the devices are group plugdev08:16
mdzI insert a card, and nautilus opens08:16
Keybukfabbione: yeah, adds proper reset/restart support to the radeonfb driver08:16
mdzit's just a bit strange, though08:16
pittimdz: yes, 2.6.8 is a requirement for udev to detect removeable devices08:16
pittimdz: what is strange?08:16
mdzthis time two nautilus windows opened, one with the card, and one with /08:16
mdzpitti: the two windows08:17
pittimdz: I also encountered this. Immediately after bootup, I see /, /home and the sda1 window08:17
fabbioneKeybuk: ok...08:17
mdzpitti: after closing the windows, unmountind, and reinserting, I get only one window08:17
pittimdz: funnily enough it works correctly all subsequent times08:17
mdz(the correct one)08:17
pittimdz: exactly.08:17
mdzhow weird08:17
pittimdz: I think this should be a gvm issue08:17
mdzpitti: yes, it sounds that way08:17
mdzI have also sometimes seen a window with / come up alone08:18
mdzI think when the mount of the real volume was failing08:18
pittimdz: hmm. but the extra windows also appear when the mount was successful.08:18
mdzpitti: please file a bug about it, assigned to npmccallum and CCing me08:18
pittimdz: I'll try to reproduce this exactly tomorrow08:18
mdzpitti: or if you have time to look into it yourself, that is of course fine too :-)08:18
pittimdz: I'll do. Good to hear that your card reader works, though, so I can close that bug08:19
mdznathaniel probably won't be here until tomorrow08:19
pittimdz: I will do. My bug count came pretty close to zero today and I think it is not the best time to work on new projects08:19
pittimdz: I will finish for today, I still need some workout after 11 hours of hacking...08:19
pittimdz: if will be the default kernel, everything should work fine08:20
mdzpitti: another thing that is strange08:20
mdzpitti: when I double-click an item which is on the card08:20
mdzit doesn't open08:20
mdzit works with files on the hard disk08:20
pittimdz: hmm. That works for my USB stick.08:20
mdzpitti: vfat filesystem?08:21
pittimdz: does it only happen with the "extra" volumes of your card reader?08:21
pittimdz: yes08:21
mdzpitti: "extra"?08:21
sabdflfabbione: maybe we can have a sound-levels test during installation? start low, and rise?08:21
pittimdz: extra in the sense that they are hotpluggable in the hotpluggable device08:21
sabdflfor hoary, of course :-)08:21
pittimdz: can you access the files manually on the shell?08:21
pittimdz: if not, it might be a root mount point permission issue08:22
pittimdz: what are the mount point permissions?08:22
mdzpitti: it works fine if I launch eog from the command line08:22
mdzso the permissions are OK08:22
pittimdz: hmm.08:22
mdz(nautilus:5489): Eel-WARNING **: Error starting command ''/media/sdc1/Weston/AThenium-with-matt.jpg'': Failed to execute child process "/media/sdc1/Weston/AThenium-with-matt.jpg" (Permission denied)08:22
mdzthat's what I see in ~/.xsession-errors08:22
mdzit is trying to exec the jpeg08:22
pittimdz: Ah, I remember08:22
mdzseb128: any idea?08:23
pittiI cannot reproduce this, unfortunately, so I cannot debug it08:23
fabbionesabdfl: if we switch to a GUI installer for hoary, i think we can easily integrate it.08:23
mdzKamion: thanks for the d-i changes for the kernel08:23
fabbionesabdfl: or otherwise doing it at a later stage.. but yes i think it's doable08:23
mdzsabdfl: you were seeing that problem with opening files on a removable device also, weren't you?08:25
seb128mdz: I'm just back from dinner08:27
seb128reading the log08:27
pittimdz: where did you get that log message from?08:27
pittimdz: I believe I can reproduce it08:27
mdzpitti: ~/.xsession-errors08:27
mdzseb128: I can summarize for you08:28
pittimdz: can you open the files with right-click and choose an app manually? This works for me08:28
seb128yes please08:28
mdzseb128: I insert a card in my flash reader, and it is mounted by gvm with pmount on /media/sdc1 and nautilus opens. great!08:28
mdzseb128: however, when I double-click on a file, it doesn't open08:28
pittimdz: I can reproduce it!08:28
mdzseb128: and an error is logged in ~/.xsession-errors08:28
mdzpitti: yes, that works08:28
pittimdz: odd, this worked before08:28
mdzseb128: (nautilus:5489): Eel-WARNING **: Error starting command ''/media/sdc1/Weston/AThenium-with-matt.jpg'': Failed to execute child process "/media/sdc1/Weston/AThenium-with-matt.jpg" (Permission denied)08:28
mdzseb128: as if it is trying to exec() the file08:28
mdzrather than launching eog or something08:29
pittimdz: could be tomorrow's job for me08:29
seb128are you able to open other file (text, media file, ...) ?08:29
mdzI wonder if it might have something to do with the mount options08:29
pittiseb128: unless you want to do that yourself :-)08:29
mdzI think I know the problem08:29
mdzall of the files are executable08:29
seb128so nautilus run them as first choice08:29
mdzwhen I try to open a text file, I get a dialog saying that it is an executable text file, asking if I want to display it or run it08:29
mdzapparently so08:29
mdzand doesn't fall back08:30
seb128right click on a file and look the list08:30
pittimdz: but if you suppress the exec, you will not be able to enter directories any more08:30
mdzseb128: Open, Open with "The GIMP", Open with "Image Viewer", Open with Other Application08:30
mdzpitti: with vfat at least, you can set them separately08:30
seb128mdz: open with gimp/image viewer works ?08:30
pittimdz: oh? I did not know08:30
mdzpitti: dmask and fmask, instead of umask08:31
mdzseb128: yes08:31
mdzit can access the file08:31
seb128ok, so that's the +x ...08:31
seb128the default is to run it08:31
mdzthat is not entirely unreasonable, I suppose08:31
pittimdz: hmm, this is getting tricky. We don't want to limit execution for other file systems, I suppose08:31
mdzbut if it cannot run it and it has an application it can use, it seems like it should fall back08:31
pittimdz: this sounds saner.08:32
mdzpitti: I think those options only apply to fat and possibly fat-like filesystems08:32
pittimdz: there actually may be files on a vfat that the user wants to execute08:32
mdzbut they might produce an error or warning on others08:32
mdzpitti: hmm, true08:32
mdzbut it is very unlikely08:32
pittimdz: If it works correctly for other file systems, I will implement that08:32
pittimdz: let's regard it as a trojan horse protection feature :-)08:33
pittimdz: can we put a file invocation into nautilus?08:33
pittiand only execute if it is actually an ELF or hashbang file?08:33
mdzpitti: what about binfmt_misc? :-)08:35
mdzI think attempting an exec is the only reliable way to test whether it will work08:35
mdzpitti: what about unmounting?08:36
pittimdz: what do you mean?08:36
mdzpitti: how will these automatically mounted devices be unmounted?  is that still an open question?08:36
pittimdz: trying the exec is not the worst option, I think08:36
dokoseb128: nautilus --browser doesn't have a desktop icon anymore?08:36
debianisthad an error with installing bsd-utils08:36
pittimdz: you open the computer window and umount it by right-clicking on it and choose "unmount"08:36
debianistbase install got hung by it08:37
debianistretrying from menu08:37
debianist"Couldn't download bsdutils"08:37
seb128doko: panel icon you mean ?08:37
pittimdz: it would be nice if it were umountedd automatically when closing the window, but other processes might still access it08:37
mdzdebianist: installing from CD?08:37
mdzdebianist: if so, it's probably a bad burn08:37
pittimdz: however, we could try and pop up a warning if unmounting did not work08:37
debianistmdz : is it supposed to download anything from the the internet?08:38
mdzdebianist: no, not in a CD install08:38
mdzdebianist: "download" there means "copy"08:38
debianistmdz : i see. well, it's a warty iso I downloaded today, and I'm faking a cd with the installer image under QEMU08:38
dokoseb128: if it's called so ...08:39
mdzdebianist: hmm. you checked the md5sum of the CD?08:39
debianistmdz : darn. does that mean I need to redownload the whole installer image?08:39
mdzdebianist: nah, you can use rsync08:39
debianistmdz : hmm, I checked the previous ones. so I passed this time :(08:39
seb128doko: we decided to only put a webbrowser/mailer/help here08:40
dokoseb128: so it's not possible to open the "file system browser" (the thing with the directory tree to the left) with the mouse/menus?with 08:42
seb128just open a nautilus dir08:43
seb128and in the file menu08:43
seb128browse option08:44
seb128BTW that's just the default config, if you don't like it you can add a launcher for this, or change the default behaviour in nautilus' properties08:45
sabdflmdz: removable devices had been bad for me, but it's looking much better08:45
debianistmdz : rsync would reconstruct the only missing / defective part of the image?08:46
mdzdebianist: correct08:46
debianistmdz : cool08:51
debianistmdz : how would I instruct rsync to repair the image? 08:58
dokoseb128: hmm, I can open it with "File/Open Browser", I cannot find anything in the preferences, and I have to know about the command to add it via "custom application launcher". why remove it? windows does have it, macosx has it.08:58
sabdflmdz: hmm... yes, double-clicking a JPG in a /media/ popped-up nautilus window (USB pen storage) doesn't fire up any app08:58
mdzdebianist: rsync rsync://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/.../warty-i386-1.iso <path to your existing image>08:59
mdzsabdfl: I think we nailed the issue (executable permissions)08:59
seb128doko: the command: "nautilus --browser"08:59
mdzseb128: what do you think is the best way to fix that issue?08:59
dokoseb128: yes, _I_ know now, but it non abvious.09:00
dokos/it/it was/09:00
seb128mdz: the +x file issue ? Not sure, would like to get nautilus' guys advice, but that's a bit late now09:00
mdzseb128: yes09:00
seb128I will check tomorrow with them09:00
mdzseb128: ok, should I file a bug as a reminder?09:00
seb128can't hurt, yes please09:00
mdzok, will do, thanks09:00
seb128doko: preferences -> behaviour -> always open in browser windows09:01
pittimdz: can you please cc me on the bug report?09:03
mdzpitti: already done09:03
dokoseb128: my mistake, logged out, and now I see the option. thanks!09:05
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kagoumdz, do i use pumount on my dongle usb or can i unplug it directly ?09:08
Kamionmdz: yes, current amd64 daily should be ok ...09:12
Kamionmdz: if you're uploading linux-source- again, I can hold the sounder release until we've got all the d-i ducks in a row for all architectures; shouldn't take too long to do the remaining two09:13
Kamion(and quicker to do two at once)09:13
pittikagou: please unmount it before by right-clicking on the device in the Computer window09:14
thomKamion: can we shoot at d-i ducks?09:15
pittikagou: of course you can also pumount it by hand09:15
Kamionthom: *bang*09:15
kagouok pitti09:15
KeybukI do so hate having to manually fix kernel drivers :-/09:25
debianisthmm I see that most of the hebrew translation works are already present in ubuntu from d-i..09:25
Kamionhm, acx100 support09:27
KamionI wonder if it works on big-endian CPUs these days09:27
Kamionit used to assume host and device endianness were the same09:27
MithrandirKamion: doesn't work on amd64 at least :(09:27
Kamionprobably assumes stuff about sizeof(long) too09:28
KamionI remember thinking it wasn't a very well-written driver, and I'm not even a kernel hacker :)09:29
MithrandirI should give the author an account on ravel and ask him to fix it.09:29
Kamionnever had time to fix its endianness problems though, I got an orinoco-based card instead09:29
Kamiontime > money09:29
mdzfabbione: would an earlier time work better for you tomorrow?09:29
mdzKamion: I've uploaded it again09:30
mdzKamion: it should build all of i386, amd64 and powerpc now09:30
mdznone of the binaries seem to be in the archive yet, though09:30
Kamionmdz: will wait for builds, then do l-k-di-*, then build other stuff, then ...09:30
KamionI assume the build logs haven't arrived either since LaMont arranged for them to be mailed to you09:30
mdzhe arranged for me to get copies of failures only09:31
=== Kamion has a handy printed checklist next to him, snarfed from installer/doc/new-kernel-checklist.txt from d-i svn
mdzSubject: Log for failed build of linux-source- (dist=warty)09:31
mdz/usr/share/kernel-package/rules:1298: *** Error. I do not know where the kernel image goes to [kimagedest undefined]  The usual case for this is that I could not determine which arch or subarch tihs machine belongs to. Please specify a subarch, and try again..  Stop.09:32
mdzodd, apparently it built for him on my powerpc09:32
mdzKamion: any clue?09:33
mdznothing from amd64 yet09:34
mdzlamont: around?09:34
Kamionelmo, thom: could you /msg me /proc/cpuinfo from one of the buildds?09:35
MithrandirKamion: which arch?09:35
elmomdz: amd64's still building09:35
mdzelmo: that's promising09:36
Kamionelmo, thom: er, sorry, powerpc09:36
Kamionbingo, it's a kernel-package bug09:36
mdzdoes it not have 'machine'?09:37
Kamionhm, I think arch=powerpc plus "Mac" in machine line of /proc/cpuinfo ought to indicate pmac pretty conclusively09:37
mdzI don't see why it cares what it happens to be running on09:37
Kamionyes, it does, but the line is RackMac09:37
KamionI'll fix it09:37
mdzit's building all the subarches09:37
mdzI guess it's the make-kpkg clean09:37
=== Kamion is not going to attempt to work that out tonight :)
mdzsounds good to me09:38
Kamiondon't know why this didn't affect us before, I suspect differences in linux-source09:38
mdzah, and it looks for Power and iMac09:39
Kamionfix uploading now09:40
KamionI'll go file a Debian bug about that09:40
mdzodd, kernel-patch-powerpc doesn't seem to do it much differently09:41
mdzexport KPKG_SUBARCH=pmac09:41
mdzlinux-source doesn't do that09:41
Kamionthat would do it09:41
debianistmdz : I started rsyncing my image some time ago, still it's working..09:42
debianistmdz : I wonder how  bad my image is damanged09:42
mdzI'll have herbert merge that in09:43
mdzdebianist: are you sure that you're syncing the same image, and you pointed it at the correct file?09:43
mdzif they did not match, or the local file is missing, it would download the whole thing09:43
debianistmdz : I guess so. unless the "current" directory image has changed..09:43
debianistmdz : what about -u update only mode? should I choose that?09:44
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu ["Client]
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mdzdebianist: 'current' could have changed, depending on when you downloaded it09:44
thomProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.09:45
thom[Switching to Thread 1084139584 (LWP 1670)] 09:45
thom0x40bea748 in NSGetModule ()09:45
thom   from /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libnecko.so09:45
thomoh, rapture09:45
debianistmdz : downloaded it eariler today (about 4 hours ago)09:45
thomsegfaults everytime i open a new tab09:45
mdzthom: could be a lot worse; at least it's reproducible 09:46
thomeven without a .firefox or a .mozilla09:47
thomanyone else reproduce?09:47
Kamionmdz: would be better now to wait for a new kernel-package to build and just rebuild with that, I think09:48
Kamionelmo: will you be able to kick off a rebuild?09:48
mdzthom: I browsed a bit, but didn't try opening a tab09:48
mdzI'll test it09:48
elmokamion; sure09:49
mdzthom: opening new tabs works fine for me09:50
KamionI could've sworn I'd added amd64 support to base-installer; evidently not09:54
Kamionoh, I did it in an uncommitted change upstream, yay me09:54
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pittigood night, boys!10:35
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
Kamionelmo: new kernel-package seems to have built10:41
jdubseb128: i've sent jbailey some updates10:44
mdzKamion: what sort of base-installer support for amd64?10:45
mdzit seemed to work well enough for me10:45
Kamionluck :-)10:48
Kamionbase-installer tries guesswork if you haven't included explicit selection of which kernel packages to install10:48
mdzKamion: should I test the current amd64 daily, or wait for the next one?10:48
Kamionit usually happens to get it right, but best not to release that way10:48
Kamioncurrent may be interesting since it uses warty's grub10:48
mdzI tested warty's current grub on its own; that works10:48
mdzI haven't tested grub-installer though10:48
jdubmdz: you know that annoying 'do you want to restart pcmcia on upgrade' dialogue?10:50
jdubmdz: i've been getting that on my ibook and test box, neither of which have pcmcia10:50
mdzjdub: yes, it happens anywhere that pcmcia-cs is installed10:50
mdzwhich is, well, everywhere10:50
mdzKamion: was that an explicit change from boot-floppies?10:51
jdubis it fixable?10:51
mdzone of my sounders encountered a machine where pcmcia-cs hung the boot process (desktop system)10:51
Kamionmdz: pcmcia-cs isn't particularly related to boot-floppies?10:51
mdzjdub: see #100210:51
mdzKamion: base-config maybe?  anyway, in woody, pcmcia-cs was removed on systems without pcmcia10:51
Kamionmdz: oh, gotcha10:52
Kamionhw-detect in Debian only installs pcmcia-cs if you have PCMCIA hardware, but you said very explicitly that you didn't want it to do anything like that :-P10:52
Kamionso, it doesn't ...10:53
mdzyeah, my only concern is this one machine that hangs10:53
jdubthe new bottom bar in bugzilla looks like babyspew :)10:53
mdzI haven't been able to reproduce it, so I don't know if it can be fixed for warty10:53
Kamionif you want to change that, move pcmcia-cs to Ship10:54
mdzI don't care about the question; as far as I'm concerned that shouldn't be asked on a desktop or a laptop10:54
mdz(by default)10:54
mdzgah, we ship shorewall? (eyeing RC bug)10:54
mdzjdub: how many more packages remain in #943?10:56
Kamionuploading linux-kernel-di-amd64-2.6 ...10:57
jdubmdz: just checking gnome-cups-manager10:57
mdzKamion: great, so the next daily should be across the board?10:57
thommdz: i think, as i said, we should just change pcmcia-cs to 'always' and have done with it10:57
mdzthat would let me close about 5 bugs10:58
mdzthom: I agree; please go ahead10:58
Kamionstill waiting for powerpc, but that's the general plan10:58
mdzthom: I think 'medium' is appropriate, as I commented in bugzilla10:58
thomi wish bugzilla had a "change owner to me and assign" button10:59
thomit must be such a common operation11:00
Kamionthom: OH GOD YES, I've wanted that for at least three years11:00
Kamioneveryone at Zeus was annoyed by that11:00
mdzit seems so weird that the mozilla guys have never wanted that enough11:02
mdzthom: what's different about your amd64 that breaks firefox tabs?11:03
mdzthom: do you have tab extensions installed or anything?11:03
thommdz: this is i38611:05
mdzoh, never mind11:06
thommdz: brand new install this morning11:06
mdzfrom context, I thought you were talking about amd6411:06
thomi'm sure i canh make it break on amd64 too, but :-)11:07
mdzKamion, thom: regarding bugzilla, either of you want to file a wishlist bug to ask justdave about it?11:10
mdzit might be easy11:10
Mithrandirthom: please don't break it on amd64, since that would mean I would have to investigate. ;)11:10
thomFUCKING TABS. 11:14
thom(yes, firef*&! just blew up again)11:15
mdzthom: does your X40 power off correctly?11:17
Kamionok, I'm off for a while, while all the kernel stuff builds11:18
mdzKamion: do you have a new linux-kernel-di for powerpc ready for when the kernel itself is built?11:18
Kamionhm, no, I'll do that now11:18
Kamionwow, sven is a numpty11:19
Kamionhm, or not just on this occasion11:19
mdzno need to stay around for it; presumably you'll have a chance to do it before the CD build11:19
thommdz: yes11:19
mdzthom: damn you11:19
jdub" I've just imported to GNOME CVS  the code for the GNOME Pedia application, which is a GNOME frontend to the Wikipedia." - Rodrigo Moya11:20
thommdz: *g*11:20
Kamionoh, sure, it's more or less the same as the others though11:20
mdzI'm not sure whether the current dep-wait magic is up to the challenge of it being uploaded before the kernel is built11:21
mdzit seems to get stuck sometimes11:21
KamionI wasn't planning to try11:21
Kamionactually I need to wait to see what the linux-image packages look like on powerpc; there's one module I'm unsure about11:22
thommdz: your t42 doesn't?11:22
mdzthom: no, and neither does nathaniel's11:22
mdzand someone on the sounder list had the same problem11:22
mdzthom: Bug#105511:22
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mdzgah, #1050 needs to be fixed for the CD build11:24
mdzI'll look at it11:24
mdzjdub: is there going to be a 2.[78]  gdm?11:24
Kamionnone of my installs lately have got that far, due to other initscript breakage :P11:24
jdubmdz: no11:25
jdubmdz: not for gnome 2.8 anyway ;)11:25
mdzjdub: so gnome 2.8 will include gdm 2.6?11:25
OskuroI guess the next one would be 2.9 then :)11:25
Oskuromdz: vicious had no time to hack on it for 2.811:25
jduband it's already perfect anyway11:25
jdubapart from not having vnc transactional terminal support11:26
seb128dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: ldd on `debian/libgail-dbg/usr/lib/usr/lib/libgailutil.so.17.0.0' gave error exit status 111:26
seb128dh_shlibdeps: command returned error code 25611:26
seb128make: *** [binary-makedeb-IMPL/libgail-dbg]  Erreur 111:26
OskuroHmm, Yet ANother Electric storm, and I haven't bought the UPS.11:26
OskuroTime to poweroff.11:27
Oskurogood night11:27
seb128'night Oskuro 11:27
Oskuroseb128: was the po file ok?11:27
seb128yes, I've included it11:27
=== Oskuro waves.
thom#1916 in the other bugzilla11:28
thommdz/Kamion: ^11:29
thomhrm, people really don't get that they can use dhcp to assign a static address, do they?11:31
elmoit's not a very common thing to do and the implementation of it in ISC dhcpd has.. issues in large, routed networks11:33
mdzseb128: current gtk seems to have an 'O' in the version number rather than a '0'11:34
mdzI don't know whether that has the potential to break anything or not11:34
mdzISC dhcpd has issues, full stop11:34
thomelmo: well, yes11:35
elmomdz: *shrug* it works for the most part11:35
=== debianist is booting under QEMU the fixed image
mdzelmo: it doesn't strictly *suck*, and there certainly isn't a better alternative, but it has a lot of things which are awkword or borderline-broken11:36
seb128mdz: oups, yes. I don't think it's a problem11:36
=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
thomit does seem that dhcp is something to get wrong, whatever the platfrom11:37
elmoloads of seb's packages did that, I thought it was by choice :)11:37
thomit's probably the french keyboard, he can't tell11:37
debianistmdz : is there a tool for our use to resize linux ext3 paritions?11:37
HcEdhcp triggers my highlight :P11:37
MithrandirHcE: howso?11:38
Kamiondebianist: partman can do that11:40
debianisthebrew text is is straightend to the left, that sould be fixed11:40
Kamionselect manual partitioning in d-i11:40
Kamionfribidi support is in d-i upstream, but I suspect we're too close to our own release to attempt to sync it11:40
debianistKamion : meaning we might include such an option for user for instance, wanting to resize their ntfs or fat32 paritions for ubuntu install?11:40
Kamionit could perhaps be tried11:40
Kamiondebianist: not until parted supports those11:40
Kamionthat should really be sorted out in d-i upstream, not so much here11:41
mdzI was pretty sure parted could resize fat3211:41
mdzjust not ntfs yet11:41
Kamionfat32, possibly; haven't tried11:41
debianistok Kamion. so if I want to resize my already existing debian ext3 partition, that can be achived through ubuntu's partman?11:42
debianistI want to make room for a real hardware install11:42
Kamionselect the partition, reduce size11:42
Kamionback up your data first, though; we can't take responsibility for loss ...11:42
mdzKamion: hmm, I didn't think udebs had init scripts11:42
mdz(re: #1052)11:43
Kamionmdz: pcmcia is a special case11:43
debianisti know you wo't11:43
mdzKamion: is it the only such?11:43
HcEMithrandir: my name is HC, so I highlite hc :P11:43
Kamionmdz: the only one I know of11:43
MithrandirHcE: bah, silly person.11:43
Kamionoh, I've worked around that bug, I can downgrade it11:43
mdzif you come across any others, please file bugs straight away so that nathaniel can get them fixed up11:43
mdzthis is a phenomenally poor day for a US holiday11:44
Kamiond-i *should* tolerate them now11:44
Kamionwouldn't like to swear to it, though11:44
debianistKamion : what about my already installed grub on the system? would it be overwritten with ubuntu's version?11:45
Kamiondebianist: yes; the installer will pick up entries from the menu.lst in your already-installed grub, though11:45
Kamion(that's a standard d-i feature)11:45
debianistboy that's nice11:47
debianistdidn't realize it already does so much useful stuff :)11:47
debianistKamion : are you implying that grub stores the meun.lst somewhere to boot block region?11:47
debianistKamion : or how would d-i from ubuntu know to take the .lst file from my other installment?11:48
Kamionmount other partition, read file11:48
debianistohh that missing root filesystem is annoying11:49
debianistKamion : it does so automagically ? ( mount other partition, read file)11:49
Kamionlook at os-prober in the d-i repository11:49
debianistwoowa, i had a feeling d-i is much much more than it might look :)11:50

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