debianisti actually have very strong interest and curiousity about d-i, however i tend to find it rather confusing to start getting familiar with it, so many parts, such wealth of scattered documentation. ofter the question arise , where do I start?12:08
jdubseb128: hooray for the menu :)12:09
jdubmight reboot for the new kernel12:11
debianistor more specifically, how do I start?12:11
jdubdebianist: (probably better to ask in the d-i channels than here)12:12
debianistahh, i'd feel to embarassed to ask this there..actually i am already having asked it here12:13
debianistmdz : rsync really did it :) it was a download error12:14
kagougood night12:40
debianistanybody still awake here?12:57
jdubthis is a 24x7 channel :)01:01
debianistit's just that I saw many went to sleep01:03
debianiststrange, I have completed first stage install. I rebooted into it,01:03
debianistnow when I installed I chose hebrew, I get all of the ncurses window text in greek symbols01:05
debianistlooks like the encodiong wasn't set correctly01:05
debianistthis is the setup stage that continues from the HD01:06
debianistI am installing under QEMU01:06
debianistcould the emulated environmnet be causing this?01:06
mdzpossible, but unlikely01:08
mdzsend a message to the sounder mailing list01:08
=== StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu
debianistmdz : hey you up so late also? :)01:09
SnowBoBit's late? I just got to work01:10
debianistwell, for me it's 2:11am01:10
danielsit's late? i just woke up (well, 45min ago)01:11
SnowBoBdaniels, yes but for you that could be anytime :P01:12
=== SnowBoB is now known as Hrdwr_BoB
mdzdebianist: I am UTC-701:14
debianistmdz : little bit to much for to translate to my time, where are you in ?01:16
debianist(at that hour)01:16
Hrdwr_BoB-mdz- TIME Mon Sep  6 16:16:2201:16
Hrdwr_BoBthe amazing powers of IRC clients :)01:16
debianistI'm so tired my eyes start to fail on me :)01:18
Keybukdaniels: isn't it like 10 or 11am there though?01:19
thomhrm. i need either less books or more book shelves :/01:19
Keybukthom: I'm at the "need more walls to put more shelves on" stage :-/01:19
debianisthaha keybuk01:20
elmoI need a flatter floor01:20
thomKeybuk: yeah01:20
elmoevery time I take something out of my bookshelves, it feels like the damn things about to fall down on me01:20
thomi have a spare wall, but it has about the structural integrity of a dell 01:20
thom(ie, none)01:21
danielsdaniel@tycho:~% TZ=Australia/Melbourne date01:22
danielsTue Sep  7 09:22:05 EST 200401:22
Hrdwr_BoBthat reminds me01:22
danielsthom: i think you need less cds01:22
Hrdwr_BoBI am without coffee01:22
danielsthom: i think i need more cds01:22
danielsthom: SYNERGY!01:22
thomdaniels: you pay shipping, and i shall send a select collection of cds to you01:22
danielsthom: that's great, except without that whole me pay shipping thing01:23
danielsmoving my housemate's car out of the drive is interesting; it's an automatic that stalls at low revs01:23
thomi'm sure you'll appreciate my exes burt bacharach cd01:23
Keybukdaniels: are you sure that's not 9pm?!  Since when do you get up in the morning?01:23
Keybuk. o O ( contemplates a TZ=Canonical/daniels date hack )01:24
danielssomething like neutral+handbrake, rev the shit out of it, handbrake off, drop it into reverse and hope like hell no-one just appeared01:24
danielsKeybuk: ever since I got back :\01:24
Keybukreally?  it didn't take me long after Oxford to get back on to KST01:24
mdzelmo: how is that powerpc build going?01:24
daniels(and then mdz promptly schedules a meeting at 2am -- maybe he's trying toget me back to a sane timezone)01:24
thomi heartily approve of 1600 GMT :-)01:24
mdzdaniels: it may need to be moved on fabio's account01:24
mdzprobably earlier01:25
danielsmdz: to?01:25
mdzbut he hasn't gotten back to me yet01:25
mdz1400 UTC is about the practical limit for me01:25
mdzassuming I need to actually speak01:25
jdubi've had really deeply sane hours recently01:25
Keybukthom: yeah, I'm usually up by then01:25
jdubfor my local timezone01:25
mdzjdub: what hours are those?01:25
danielsmdz: 'speak'01:25
danielsmdz: it is an irc meeting, right?01:25
jdubmdz: Australia/Sydney01:25
mdzdaniels: yes01:25
mdzjdub: no, I mean what hours are you usually available (UTC)01:26
danielsmdz: otherwise i'll need to find a phone card as well as red eye :) (which i needfor xorg anyway)01:26
danielsmdz: whee, cool01:26
jdubmdz: whenever, i'm used to the damage01:26
Keybukevo is seriously lacking a Timezone field in its contacts db01:27
Keybukthat would rock, especially combined with the calendar01:27
Keybukand To: daniels (Local time: 9.27am)01:27
elmomdz: boring the fuck out of me is how01:27
elmoit's built 5 or 6 images and still going01:27
mdzit's been hours01:28
jdubKeybuk: ooh, that'd be rad01:28
thomKeybuk: talk to your pet evo hacker about it :p01:29
Hrdwr_BoBafter you let them out of your cupboarfd01:29
mdzelmo: looks like there should be a total of 601:29
mdzjdub: seriously; I have a list and I'll try to at least rotate the damage if not accomodate everyone01:30
Keybukthom: he does exchange stuff mostly, iirc01:31
Hrdwr_BoBwrite a patch01:31
danielsmdz: sounds like t1-cyrillic is being realy stupid an povidin /usr/lib/X11 as a directoy01:31
danielsmdz: my hours are  decn approximaton of 2200->1400 UTC01:32
mdzdaniels: noted01:32
Keybukand his rates ...01:32
mdzKeybuk: negotiable01:33
jdubmdz: i'm generally awake between UTC 2100 and UTC 140001:33
thommdz: please send him a new keyboard01:33
Keybukjust like his affection then :)01:33
mdzjdub: thanks01:34
thomi'm concerned that "ati" might turn into "atikthxbye" 01:34
mdzI just need pitti and alextreme to complete my collection01:34
danielsKeybuk: i'm a uni bum, i'm cheap01:34
jdub^ totally fucking amazingly useful01:34
mdzjdub: yeah, that tells me the time, but not when people are awake01:34
mdzwhich is a way more useful thing01:34
mdzI wish I could program htat into the worldclock01:34
jdubmmm, it definite fluctuates01:34
danielsmdz: yeah, i hear x40s have really nice keyboards01:34
danielsmdz: might stop me typoing 'warty' as 'unstable' so much01:35
mdzdaniels: I know another way to stop you from typing 'unstable'01:35
jdub$ cat /home/jdub/bin/uch01:35
jdubexport DEBEMAIL=jeff.waugh@canonical.com01:35
jdubexec dch -i -D warty $@01:35
mdzdaniels: I could break your fingers01:35
thomi think some good pavlovian response training would cure that01:35
jdubme no type warty :)01:35
jdubhrm, breakfast01:35
danielslooks like the problem was the usb conection, as it now works a lot better in ps/201:36
danielsnow the only problem is my cold hands01:36
danielsmdz: that also prevents me from typing 'warty'01:36
jdubmdz: how much do we trust the bluetooth daemons and stuff?01:36
mdzdaniels: details01:36
danielsthom: no electrodes on my testicles01:36
mdzjdub: depends on what they want :-)01:36
jdubwell, they're in DesktopSeed01:36
mdzbluetooth has an effective range of a few feet, right?01:37
jduband we don't have any gui bits there yet01:37
jduband i believe they 'listen by default'01:37
mdzi.e., pretty close to console access anyway01:37
Hrdwr_BoBvery close01:37
thommdz: about 10-15, iirc01:37
mdzthe trouble is that people make bluetooth keyboards and what not01:37
mdzand people expect to be able to use them01:37
Hrdwr_BoBunless you play funny buggers with antennas01:37
jdubmdz: ahr, that is true01:37
Mithrandirmdz: up to a 100 for the later versions, though01:37
=== mdz whimpers
thomMithrandir: 100 metres, or 100feet?01:38
jdubso can we only allow input device support or something?01:38
danielsmdz: you canget up to 100m, depends on the device01:38
Mithrandirthom: 100m01:38
danielsmdz: it's generally accepted as being 10m, tho01:38
Keybukdaniels: just put Kinnison on your testicles, it's far more ... effective01:38
jdub 4522 ?        Ss     0:00 hcid: processing events01:38
jdub 4531 ?        S<     0:00 [krfcommd] 01:38
jdub 4533 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/sdpd01:38
danielsmdz: so you'll usually either get ~10 or 100; either way, it's enough to use a keyboard01:38
danielsKeybuk: don't give him ideas.01:38
jdubmdz: perhaps i should mail edd about it?01:39
KeybukI don't need to, he comes up with them all by himself01:39
mdzjdub: yeah, anybody who might know01:39
mdzI have never even held a bluetooth device in my hand01:39
jdubedd: or ping you here... hi!01:39
thommdz: uh, doesn't your T42 have bluetooth?01:40
thomor are you not counting a laptop as a device :-)01:40
mdzthom: does it?01:41
danielsi believ you can configure hcid (/etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf) to configure which classes of device it will accept with01:41
danielsbut you don't want to do that per default01:41
danielsjust sit on a train witha  small bluetooth keyboard and fuck shit up01:41
thommdz: certainly my x40 does01:41
=== jdub watches #ubuntu discussions whisk themselves off to other channels in crackful ways.
mdzlspci doesn't reveal anything that is obviously a bluetooth thingy01:41
Hrdwr_BoBmaybe it's attached to usb internally or somesuch wackiness01:41
Keybukmdz: try lsusb ... they tend to show up on there01:41
Keybukmore usefully, you configure hcid to only pair with devices if they know a SECRET PIN NUMBER :p01:42
mdzit does seem to have 4 USB controllers01:42
mdz0000:00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #1 (rev 01)01:42
mdz0000:00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #2 (rev 01)01:42
mdz0000:00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB UHCI #3 (rev 01)01:42
mdz0000:00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82801DB (ICH4) USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 01)01:42
mdzlsusb isn't any more helpful01:42
danielsmdz: right -4 usb1.1 chanels, and one usb2 channel01:42
danielsKeybuk: yeah01:42
danielsKeybuk: whichI never did get workng properl01:42
danielswell, I did, once01:42
danielsi thnk maybe I need new batteries for his keyboard, actualy01:43
=== daniels wradiates WAK UP vibes a his housemate (I have the only set of keys)>
thommdz: what happened to your perl hotplug?01:43
Keybukdaniels: I just stuck "auth enable;" in /etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf01:43
Keybukand the pin in /etc/bluetooth/pin01:44
mdzthom: I may have, er, installed over it01:44
mdzah, no, I have a copy01:44
mdzI didn't finish it01:44
mdzyou want it?01:44
mdzit handles everything except one of the bitmask fields01:44
thomhotplug irritates me everytime i boot01:44
thomstick it in arch? :-)01:44
mdzhmm, actually, this may not be a copy01:44
danielsbrb wakingup hosemat and gong to stor oget new batteries01:45
mdzyeah, it's gone, I was editing it in-place01:45
mdzit was only about 7 lines of new code01:46
mdzand then ripping out all the shell awfulness01:46
mdzit took longer than it should have because I did it all in awk before learning that awk doesn't have bitwise operators (!?)01:46
mdzonly gawk01:46
thomhow can awk not support bitwise ops? that's weeeeird01:50
thomoh well01:50
thomit'll just have to continue to annoy me, then01:50
mdzor you could fix it :-)01:50
thomi'll wait till hoary :-)01:50
thomunless warty isn't borky enough for you right now? ;-)01:51
jdubit's not bork, thom!01:51
jdubit's CHARACTER01:51
thomcharacter building, maybe01:52
=== Keybuk subjects jdub to a week of writing unit tests for him
thomisn't that why bob2 ran away screaming? ;P01:56
KeybukI suspect so01:56
Keybukis bad :-/  I can't even change clothes without unit testing first01:57
jdubit is always good to make sure your unit is functional and aligned correctly before getting dressed01:57
Keybukindeed, nothing worse than heading out for the evening to meet some hottie, and discovering half way through that your unit isn't working01:58
jdubi can understand steve's point now01:59
jdubi will look upon unit tests in a different light01:59
danielssideshow contracted unititis02:03
thomi wonder if pouring bleach into my ear will help purge my brain02:03
danielsmake sure that you leave all your cds to me02:04
thomdaniels: you can have Dire Straits and Jewell, too02:06
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu
thomdaniels: and i'll be sure and send you powderfinger, too. i'm sure you'd struggle to find any in .au :P02:08
danielsthom: I'll take Dire Straits, and I'll use Jewell to slice bob2 up with02:09
danielsactually, I haven't got any Powderfinger albums, off the top of my head02:09
danielsthom: oh, and your favourite DnB group are playing on Saturday02:10
danielsthom: come down on Friday, you can crash here02:10
=== fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu
mdzI hate perl02:12
danielsi can't file a bug with bugzilla because my mouse doesn't work right now, but could someone please file a critical bug on pfaedit02:13
danielsgiven that it currently only contains /usr/share/doc/pfaedit02:13
danielsassign it to me02:13
justdaveBugzilla should work pretty good in lynx/links02:14
=== fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu
mdzthom: so I end up with a 0 that is != another 002:14
danielser, nevermind02:14
danielshm. fontforge conflicts/replaces pfaedit, but doesn't provide a pfaedit binary02:15
danielsmdz: 'and, for my next trick, proof that black is white!"02:15
daniels(exhibit one: michael jackson)02:15
Hrdwr_BoBdaniels goes on to die at the next zebra crossing </obscure hhgtg reference>02:16
=== fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu
mdz$pci_class is 131072, $class_mask is 0, $class is 0, but $pci_class & $class_mask != 002:17
thommdz: er, sorry?02:18
mdzthom: I'm bitwise-anding something with 0 and not getting 002:18
=== thom boggles
=== mdz pummels perl
mdzthere's probably a type fuckup in there somewhere, but damned if I can see it02:19
thommdz: if you stick what you have in arch, i can take a look when it's not 01:20 :-)02:19
thomjustdave: did the bugzilla bug i filed seem reasonable?02:20
=== lamont returns, richer by one horse, poorer by some amount of money
lamontmdz: checkning02:20
mdz($vendor,$device,$subvendor,$subdevice,$class,$class_mask) = map { hex } @F;02:20
mdz$class_matches = (394240 & $class_mask == $class);02:20
mdzprint STDERR "class: 394240 & $class_mask =? $class -> $class_matches";02:20
mdzprints "class: 394240 & 0 =? 0 -> 0"02:21
=== daniels tries a gimmicky cereal he heard of a couple of years back (Fruity Bix), and realises why it never caught on.
danielsHrdwr_BoB: i was making the same reference02:21
Hrdwr_BoBonly more obscure :)02:21
mdzthom: putting something in arch is harder than fixing the bug :-P02:22
thommdz: *chuckle*02:22
lamontmdz: that looks suspiciously like perl.02:22
mdzlamont: alas, I need to write this with only essential: yes02:22
lamontmdz: that's why gcc-opt is in C. :-)02:23
justdavethom: which one was that, the assign-to-self one?02:23
thomjustdave: yes02:23
justdaveyeah, should be.  there's a patch for it somewhere (it's not a new request) that I was trying to dig up.02:24
mdz       Note that "&" has lower priority than relational operators, so for02:26
mdz       example the brackets are essential in a test like02:26
jdubdaniels: that would be a syntax error02:27
danielsnot in brainfuck02:28
jdubthe worst thing about ordering something on the interweb from overseas is that you have to wait02:28
jdubthe internet is not about waiting02:28
mdzBefore: real    0m10.742s02:28
Hrdwr_BoByou need a matter transference terminal02:28
mdzAfter: real    0m6.375s02:28
mdzthat's the full hotplug run, of which the pci bit is the only part I modified02:29
jdubmdz: yowza02:29
thommdz: nice02:31
danielsmdz: neat02:31
Keybukjdub: not about waiting?  clearly you haven't tried to read a site that's just made slashdot?02:31
jdubKeybuk: (i thought someone was going to make a joke about .au bandwidth...)02:32
Keybukyou have bandwidth there?02:34
lamontKeybuk: only intra-house02:36
jdubodd rain02:40
mdzelmo: did the kernel ever finish, or did you fall asleep?02:44
mdzlamont: was linux-source- uploaded for powerpc?02:47
danielsjdub: i thought it always rained (or hailed, as the case may be) in sydney02:48
elmomdz: it finished 5 minutes ago, just made it to the queue and is going into the archive now02:49
elmomdz: do you need me for anything else?02:49
mdzelmo: thanks02:49
mdzelmo: nope02:49
elmonight all02:50
danielselmo: 'night dude02:50
danielsjustdave: bugzilla is broken in links, can't select a component02:57
danielsjustdave: whaddyaknow, broken in lynx too02:59
justdaveah, true, the new component thing. :)  heh.03:02
danielsjustdave: and broken in firefox. i'd file a bug on bugzilla about this, but y'know03:02
justdaveupstream works on links, that's a local hack here.03:02
justdavewhat's broken about it in firefox?03:02
danielsi just get a big red box saying PICK A COMPONENT, JACKASS on links, lynx, and firefox03:02
danielscan't file a bug03:02
danielsif 'fontforge' isn't a component name, then that's a seriously unintuitivbe message03:03
danielsthere is no more drop-down list of components with type-ahead03:03
danielsi miss that03:03
justdaveyeah, there's no fontforge componnet03:04
danielscould you please make one, and fix the error message? :)03:04
danielsand i really did like the box with typeahead, now you just sort of have to clutch at straws03:04
justdaveit's still typeahead, you just have to type three characters before it'll start going03:05
justdavebecause the index file is about 150 MB if I index it to 1 character :)03:05
justdavethat's the downside of making it match substrings instead of left-side03:05
mdzjustdave: how big is it for 3 characters with all packages?03:06
justdavejust shy of 160K03:07
=== cef_work [~cef@fw-01.amc.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionelmo: argh, have you gone?03:08
KamionI need you for byhands03:08
justdaveer, just over.  it's 173K with ~1600 packages in it.03:08
lamontCan't find source for linux-non-free-modules-
mdzKamion: he's gone :-/03:09
justdavehmm, sorry, that's 2800 packages in my sample data, now that I'm counting it03:10
Kamionwell, I'll do what I can and finish it tomorrow03:10
mdzthat means that with ~10k packages, it'd be more like a megabyte03:10
justdavedaniels: fontforge is in03:11
justdaveand looking at this, it should actually still work in links, you'll just have to know the package name, you won't get a list to pick from.  probably didn't work before because the component didn't exist.03:12
Kamionshould've got back earlier, but badly needed to unwind by killing some aliens :)03:12
mdzKamion: is it OK to update the seeds for
justdavethe error message tell you you didn't select one instead of saying the one you selected didn't exist?  that what happened?03:12
lamontmdz: linux-kernel-non-free-modules b-d's sharutils03:13
mdzlamont: yes?03:13
mdzlinux-non-free-modules- ( warty; urgency=low03:13
mdz  * Build-Depends: sharutils (for uudecode)03:13
Kamionmdz: crap, forgot about that for amd64 :)03:13
mdzuploaded 4 hours ago03:13
Kamionmdz: you do base, I'll do installer03:13
mdzKamion: amd64?  base doesnt' seem to have been updated for any arches03:14
Kamionmdz: base should only need doing for powerpc in fact ...03:14
lamontmdz: cool03:14
mdzKamion: base still says kernel-image-2.6-38603:14
Kamionmdz: base doesn't need it for i386/amd64, it uses the metapackages03:14
mdzneeds s/kernel/linux/03:14
Kamionmdz: ... oh03:14
Kamionmdz: wrong metapackages, right03:14
Kamionmy brain is eliding those damn things03:14
lamontmdz: linux-source uploaded for ppc03:15
mdzbase done03:15
mdzlamont: yep, it's installed already03:15
mdzand I just finished test-booting it03:15
lamontditto amd6403:16
lamontsorry I wasn't here to answer earlier03:16
Kamioninstaller done; will be wrong for powerpc for another few minutes03:17
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
mdzKamion: updated base and supported03:19
Kamionremind me sometime to add some kind of expansion feature to germinate so that updating the installer seed is less hard work03:20
KamionKernel-Version: was supposed to do that, but at the moment it just restricts dependency resolution03:20
mdzKamion: looked through all and extra; seems to be in order03:23
mdzkernel-* should probably show up in elmo's next diff for removal03:23
Kamionlinux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6 uploading03:25
mdzwould people freak out if we stopped shipping kernel source in a .deb?03:25
mdzas I recall, one of the few good reasons for that was so that it could go on the binary CDs03:25
mdzbut we don't put it on there anyway03:25
mdzhmm, I suppose it'll go on the DVD03:26
mdzKamion: what's the location of your new germinate archive?03:27
Kamionusual place on chinstrap03:27
justdavemanaged to get the iBook installed by pointing it at the network archive since it wouldn't keep the cdrom mounted.03:28
Kamion... and base-installer uploaded; I think that's all I can actually upload until the powerpc udebs are accepted, but I'll make the necessary changes to debian-installer locally03:28
justdavewhich went fine until I logged into gdm...  bunches of errors from X about the XKB configuration03:28
Kamionjustdave: most of your bugs seemed to stem from the WEP thing; FYI, booting with DEBCONF_PRIORITY=high should work around that03:30
danielsjustdave: cheers dude03:30
danielsjustdave: um, i didn't get any typeahead at all03:30
danielsjustdave: not in linkx, not in lynx, not in firefox03:30
justdaveyou won't get typeahead in the text browsers.03:31
danielsjustdave: xkb errors? suck? please send me the exact errors, plus XFree86.0.log03:31
justdaveworks for me in firefox, just tried it03:31
danielsjustdave: hm03:31
Kamionwell, not most, but some03:31
mdzKamion: does b-i have the smarts to select the tasty optimized kernel for all warty architectures?03:34
mdzoh, you just uploaded that03:35
mdz(for amd64)03:35
Kamionand powerpc03:35
Kamionwell, not that it's so much optimization there as making the damn thing work03:35
mdzso should we promote a few kernels onto the CD?03:36
mdz-686 seems sensible03:36
Kamionalthough I can't say I've ever been terribly enthused by -power3-smp03:37
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
jdubfor some reason, a while back, smp was chosen as the default kernel on my ppc03:37
Kamionon powerpc we could easily eat through a lot of space with smp kernels03:38
Keybukok, the FUCKING MOUSE just ran STRAIGHT THROUGH the trap!03:38
=== Keybuk fumes
Kamionjdub: base-installer sometimes picks one at random if it hasn't been properly educated03:38
Kamionwouldn't worry about it, shouldn't happen from now on03:38
Keybukit did it while I watched it03:38
Keybukdanced straight through it03:38
mdzanother broken init script03:39
Kamionthat's at least number 4, by my reckoning03:39
=== Keybuk feels like a James Bond villain, when his elaborate plan to kill Bond fails
jdubmdz: did nathaniel do all of the init scripts in supported, too?03:39
KamionI think we need to conduct a full audit between now and preview release03:39
KamionI meant to send an e-mail about that03:39
mdzjdub: I hope not03:39
mdzKamion: I talked to mark about it on the phone today03:39
jdubmdz: which avoids bugs, but they're going to be different...03:39
Kamionhe didn't do openssh-server, I was watching for that03:39
=== jdub was going to install all the supported servres on his test machine
mdzjdub: yeah, and then regression-test every action (stop/start/reload/restart) :-/03:41
Kamionmdz: BTW, I guessed that misdn wasn't needed in d-i, but might've been wrong03:41
Kamionif it's needed I don't know where to put it03:41
jdubmdz: *fear*03:41
mdzKamion: dunno, probably a question for doko03:41
KamionI would rather that a small group of shell scripting experts went through it03:41
=== Keybuk hides
Kamionthe diffs aren't large03:41
Kamionthey need a lot of attention, but there aren't reams and reams of -+03:42
jdubso vim-tiny is in BaseSeed03:42
jdubbut it wasn't installed when i did a 'custom' install the other day03:42
=== Kamion wonders if we need all these germinate workarounds any more
justdavedaniels: mail sent03:42
mdzjdub: potentially because vim-tiny does not exist?03:43
Kamiontisn't in the archive, so germinate doesn't see it03:43
jdubshould we switch that to vim?03:44
KamionI'd been wondering why vim wasn't installed in the first stage03:44
Kamionoh, please do03:44
mdzthere was this changelog entry in unstable03:44
mdzthat said vim-tiny was going to come back with the next upload03:44
Kamionserver installs without vim are crack :)03:44
mdzbut the maintainer lied and it never did03:44
mdzI agree03:44
jdubok, i'll switch03:45
mdzthe last time this came up, lamont objected because vim wasn't bug-compatible enough for him :-)03:45
KamionI'd rather have an arguable vi than no vi; I can live with either ...03:45
Kamion(either> nvi or vim - personal preference is for vim though)03:45
jdubmmm, nvi is poo03:46
jduband our base can handle vim03:46
Kamionshall I add that to debootstrap now, then?03:46
jdubi know!03:46
jdublet's use vim-python!03:46
=== mdz pummels jdub
jdubi love your tough love03:47
mdzmy preference is for vim as well03:47
mdzis anyone in here _not_ running the kernel yet?03:48
mdzif so, DO IT NOW03:48
lifelessnext reboot.03:48
KamionI will be as soon as we have a working installer :P03:48
mdzthank you and have a nice day03:48
lifelesswhat version of the 2200bg is in that kernel ?03:48
mdzlifeless: 0.403:48
mdzKamion: ipw220003:49
Kamionaha, a victim03:49
mdzdo they have a new one?03:49
lifeless0.7 is really quite essential.03:49
mdzoh, they do03:49
lifelessnew firmware too.03:49
Kamiononce I add that to d-i I need people to test it03:49
lifelessdevelopment is cranking fast now.03:49
Keybukisn't upstream a very broken kernel ?03:49
KamionI held off 'cos I'm fairly sure the firmware loading I attempted to add to ddetect is broken03:49
jdubthey've been busy little bees03:49
lifelessI have full 54Mbits here now :}.03:49
lifelessmdz: oh there are a couple of wep patches post 0.7 you'll want as well.03:50
=== jdub will appreciate this when the new lappy arrives.
Keybukmdz: what ACPI is in it?  does it have latest madwifi CVS in it?03:50
KamionKeybuk: AIUI we've fixed the really broken bits03:50
mdzKeybuk: stock ACPI, madwifi I think is a release, not CVS03:51
Keybukok, I shall stick to my hand-builds then03:51
mdzKeybuk: isn't broken for me, no03:51
Keybukneither stock acpi or madwifi release work on the nc4010 :(03:51
mdzKeybuk: that's the sort of feedback I was looking for a week ago when I asked for testers on sounder@ :-P03:52
=== jdub installs new ppc kernel
mdzwhich reminds me, I need to post another announcement now that powerpc and amd64 are there03:52
Keybukheh, I have about a week-lag on testing warty at the moment -- I'm using this machine as a development environment, I can't keep killing it to test things <g>03:52
Keybukonce PMS is out of the way, *then* I can be your bitch :p03:54
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamiondebootstrap uploaded, adding vim and vim-common to base04:02
lifelessmdz: I'm in the same boat as keybuk.04:02
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lifelesstesting the distro is  alixury for me.04:02
Kamionget more machines :)04:03
KeybukKamion: they end up getting *used* for things04:03
Kamionmdz: going to make archive-copier the default for Sounder 8; it isn't going to get enough feedback otherwise04:06
Kamionunfortunately all of today's madness has left me without time to do the last bits of integration04:06
jdub$ uname -a04:08
jdubLinux willow #1 Mon Sep 6 22:44:50 UTC 2004 ppc GNU/Linux04:08
=== lamont has since decided to just live with vim.
lamontso when I install linux-image-2.6.8-1-... is it going to remove my old kernel?04:34
Kamioncertainly shouldn't04:35
=== lamont waits for to finish syncing
lamontKamion: just being paranoid.04:35
Kamionyou could watch what your package manager says :-)04:35
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mdzKamion: sounds good05:20
Kamionmdz: why is bicyclerepair under "Germinate workarounds" in DesktopSeed?05:26
mdzKamion: misplaced, I suppose05:27
=== lamont wondered what bicyclerepair was..
Kamionditto pymacs05:27
lamontwow - neat package name...05:27
Kamionneither of them make sense there as far as I can see05:27
Kamioneverything in the workarounds sections should be associated with a known germinate bug, really05:28
danielslamont: python introspection tool, iirc05:29
Hrdwr_BoByeah it's a refactoring tool05:29
lamontdaniels: yeah05:30
KamionI think all the germinate workarounds in SupportedSeed can go away now05:34
mdzKamion: I probably just wasn't paying attention to the different types of headings in the file when I added them05:38
mdzthose categories need reworking05:38
mdzjdub: kernel treating you well?05:38
=== lamont heads to bed for real
jdubmdz: haven't sprained anything yet05:40
Kamionare we going to do anything about Marco's pppoe comment at the bottom of BaseSeed?05:40
jdubbut this is not a very demanding machine05:40
mdzKamion: if that applies to the version we ship, then yes, certainly05:41
mdzI thought that was not true until later ppp versions05:42
Kamionah, dunno05:43
Kamionnot going to attempt to check at this time05:43
mdzKamion: the changelog is convincing05:45
mdzI think it's accurate and if you're editing it anyway, go ahead and remove it05:45
mdzwe can let it fall all the way to universe05:45
Kamionnot editing it any more05:46
KamionI'll do it tomorrow if nobody has beaten me to it05:46
mdzI'll just do it now05:47
KamionI'll remove it from debootstrap tomorrow05:47
Kamionyou know, so much of apt-setup's code is there because the CD isn't mounted; gotta wonder how much easier it would be to do that in prebaseconfig05:48
Kamionbefore the CD gets UNmounted05:48
danielsjdub: ping?05:48
Kamionfabbione: ping me when you get up about apt-setup; I have an evil idea05:49
mdzKamion: speaking of getting up, don't you need to sleep eventually so that you can do that too? :-)05:50
Kamiontheoretically ...05:50
Kamionactually that was the plan nowish :)05:50
mdznot that I particularly mind if you work in my timezone :-)05:51
mdzbut surely there are disadvantages05:52
Kamionoh yeah, tomorrow morning will kinda suck05:54
Kamionmight take an afternoon nap to make up05:55
mdzyou plan on seeing the morning? rough05:55
Kamionhence, crash now :-)05:55
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=== jorge_ is now known as whiprush
jdubmdz: somehow, gpdf has not been on the supported list, due to the xpdf/gpdf thing; can i add it on? (it should be there, considering it's shipped in gnome)06:14
mdzjdub: hmm, doesn't it basically duplicate a bunch of code from xpdf?06:23
mdzI'd really prefer if we could choose one for warty06:23
danielsi thought it stuffed up in interesting ways with landscape pages, etc06:25
danielsbut if it works, then it has my +106:25
danielsoh, suck06:35
danielsjustdave: um, is it possible to have the dropdown box always displayed?06:35
danielsjustdave: with the list of all components if nothing has been typed06:35
justdaveyes, but it'll screw performance.06:37
danielsmdz: 1056 is blocked by 105606:37
danielsmdz: er, 1056 is blocked by 105706:37
sabdfljdub: is gnome-gpg no longer in supported?06:37
justdavelike when you empty the box it'll take 10 or 15 seconds to fill in the list box again06:37
danielsjustdave: yah, but it kinda sucks having to take a total stab in the dark06:37
danielsjustdave: really that slow?06:37
jdubsabdfl: it never was; definitely not supported-worthy yet06:37
jdubmdz: ok, i'll leave it to hoary06:38
justdaveit's javascript running on your local machine...06:38
justdavemy machine I was testing on was 500 MHz06:38
justdaveif you have a better machine it might not be so bad.06:38
danielsmine's a 2ghz athlonxp (so-called 2400+), but i can't really imagine it being that ludicrously slow06:39
danielsbut there you go :)06:39
justdaveI suppose there are some tricks I could pull...  like having a listbox already filled and just hide it, and swap it for the other one when you need the filled one.06:39
danielsthat would be really nifty :) if kinda huge06:39
justdaveit may have to wait a week or so if you can tolerate it for now, I have a number of things on my plate at the moment.06:41
Keybukodd, when you os.fork() in Python, the interpreter follows the form06:42
Keybukuh, fork06:42
Keybukwhich is odd06:42
Keybukah, no, there's an exception on it which it caught06:43
danielsjustdave: yeah, fo'sho06:49
jdubgar gar gar06:52
sabdfljdub: ok, thanks06:53
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fabbionemorning guys07:07
fabbioneKamion: ping :-)07:07
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu
=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Sounder CD 7 released | bug tracking at https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Fri Sep 3 16:30:19 2004
=== #ubuntu [freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
danielsmdz: i've not done font stuff before; how easy is it to transition stuff to fontforge (worth doing for warty?)07:51
mdzdaniels: I think pfaedit and fontforge are the same program with different names07:52
fabbionemdz: changing non-free to restricted and contrib to universe will kill all the translation....08:03
fabbionespecially the latter08:03
fabbionenon-free can be almost sed with restricted08:04
fabbionebut the contrib changes meaning completly08:04
fabbioneprobably we can just virtually ask for non-free/restricted when pri=low, and skip completely universe.08:05
mdzfabbione: mark doesn't want to ask any questions08:09
mdzand add restricted by default08:09
mdzand not universe08:09
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fabbionemdz: i am not going to ask any question08:11
mdzfabbione: so this is only for the 'expert' install?08:12
fabbionemdz: but instead of reinventing the wheel, we can just pre-seed the debconf questions we have so that an expert user (that will have DEBCONF_PRI=low) can see the question and decide by himself08:12
fabbionemdz: correct08:12
mdzrestricted and universe are different from non-free, though; we will need to change the text at least08:13
fabbionerestricted matches 99% non-free08:13
mdzwe will lose the translations, but we have little choice and this is only for expert mode08:13
fabbioneuniverse and contrib are very different08:13
fabbioneactually to make contrib into universe it is enough to drop one sentence08:14
mdzdebian main+non-free maps to ubuntu main+restricted, but non-free doesn't map 99% to restricted08:14
mdzmany things that would go in debian non-free go in ubuntu main08:14
fabbionei agree, but that's from a SC point of view...08:14
mdzubuntu restricted will have less than 5 packages in it08:14
fabbioneif we just look at the wording08:15
fabbionei think they match more than you think08:15
danielsmdz: fglrx isn't unrealistic for restricted, imo08:17
danielsgiven that right now it's the only thing that supports r4xx, and r3xx is now one behind the curve, so people won't unreasonably be expecting 3d on it08:17
mdzdaniels: fglrx?08:18
danielsmdz: ati binary drivers08:18
mdzdaniels: packaged?08:18
danielspain in the arse to set up, but they're the only option for 3D on r3xx (9[5678] 00), and any display at all on r4xx (x[3468] 00)08:19
danielsmdz: probably packaged somewhere08:19
fabbioneyes they are08:19
fabbionefrom an italian guy08:19
fabbionethere was the URL on the wiki08:19
danielsare the packages decent?08:19
fabbionei dunno08:19
fabbioneMark is using them08:19
mdzare those the ones which crash his machine when opengl screensavers run?08:21
jdubdon't bring facts into the discusson08:21
fabbionei have NO idea...08:21
fabbionewhen he reported the crashes, i didn't have any follow up08:22
fabbioneso i really can't say08:22
danielsthey were pretty stable when i tried them maybe a year back on my 9000 (r2xx)08:23
mdzdon't the xfree86 drivers do 3d on those chips?08:24
mdzI thought gatos at least did08:24
danielsyes, but not tv-out08:25
mdzgatos does on r2xx08:25
danielsthey also didn't do s3tc until recently (still need dodgy hacks), which was one of the things i was after08:25
danielser, last i checked, gatos didn't08:25
danielsbear in mind this was around a year ago, but yeah08:25
mdzpreviously it only did tv-out with VBE calls08:26
danielsi think they had sort-of-um-maybe r200 support, certainly didn't work on my 9000 (rv250)08:26
mdzbut someone did the work to figure out the right stuff since then08:26
danielsgood news08:26
danielsthey're merging with x.org also08:26
mdzI had a 9000 AIW at the time08:26
fabbioneTemplate: apt-setup/universe08:26
fabbioneType: boolean08:26
fabbioneDefault: false08:26
fabbione_Description: Use universe software?08:26
fabbione Some additional software has been made to work with Ubuntu. This software08:26
fabbione is free and it is not a part of Ubuntu, but standard Ubuntu tools can be08:26
mdzoh, good08:26
fabbione used to install it.08:26
fabbione .08:26
fabbione Please choose whether you want this software to be made available to you.08:26
fabbionemdz: does it look ok for you?08:27
danielsso we'll have ati.2/tv_output in x.org a week or two after the release08:27
mdzfabbione: I would say "This software is free, and while it is not a part of Ubuntu, standard Ubuntu tools can be used to install it"08:27
mdzfabbione: otherwise, looks good08:27
mdzor maybe s/while/though/08:27
fabbionewhile sounds ok08:28
=== fabbione imagines mdz walking on walls while thinking
mdzI'm not set up for that at home, so I just walk on the floor08:29
fabbionewell since this template won't have translation, we can change it later on08:30
=== fabbione runs an evil debconf-updatepo
Keybukmajor arch-go-whoa08:32
Keybukthat's a *lovely* one08:33
Keybukthere was a cache rev waiting for a signature08:33
Keybukso the .tar.gz was slowly uploading, and you can't get it until it's finished, signed and checksum.cacherev put alongside08:34
Keybuko/~ the committer and the user had a race08:34
=== Keybuk prods jblack playfully
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pittigood morning everybody!08:38
thomhey dude08:44
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Mithrandirmdz: seems to be happy here.09:11
mdzMithrandir: here too, thanks09:12
Mithrandirand the bd_claim patch is applied, thanks.09:12
mdzgood night09:14
=== Mithrandir waves
Mithrandirsleep well09:14
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=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Sounder CD 7 released | bug tracking at https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Fri Sep 3 16:30:19 2004
=== #ubuntu [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu
=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Sounder CD 7 released | bug tracking at https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Fri Sep 3 16:30:19 2004
=== kagou [Standard@montpellier-1-62-147-80-121.dial.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu
pittiHi kagou!09:27
=== pitti needs to reboot to test the shiny new kernel on powerpc
kagoupitti: or mdz cn you tell seb128 that smb bug in gnome browsing is at least reolved :) ?09:28
kagoui'm at work and e ask me to test the bug quickly, and to report if it's good more quickly :)09:29
debianist1GB is not enough for warty :(09:35
debianistdarn, got the installation halted on "not enough space on device"09:35
debianistthan I can forget of installing it on my 850MB had based alleged router machine09:36
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fabbionesorry guys... how does a cdrom apt sources.list entry looks like?09:37
thomdeb cdrom:[Ubuntu 4.10 _Warty Warthog_ - Unofficial i386 Binary-1 (20040906)] / unstable main09:38
pittifabbione: apt-cdrom add09:38
fabbionethom: thanks09:39
jdubdebianist: if it's a router, you can always enter 'custom' at the installer boot prompt09:39
jdubdebianist: then it'll just install base09:39
debianistjdub : oh right , forgot about it. i am having to less sleep over the last couple of days. thansk09:39
debianistjdub : it was me even that asked you same question 2 days ago09:39
pittithom: nice :-) we both reported the not-so-eject problem at the same time :-)09:40
thomthat's pretty impressive timing :-)09:40
thomjust resolved mine as a dup09:40
debianistjdub : what is pmount?09:40
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jdubdebianist: a special policy-based mounting tool09:41
pittidebianist: it is a wrapper around mount that allows normal users to mount removable devices09:42
jdubdebianist: it's used by gnome-volume-manager in ubuntu09:42
jdubdebianist: so normal users can mount and unmount removab-- thanks pitti ;)09:42
pittidebianist: this avoids mangling the fstab and allows to run hal as root09:42
pittidebianist: sorry, allows to run hal as normal user09:42
debianistpitti : hmm, but hal wasn't intended to run as root from first place, i mean by design ?09:43
debianistpitti : it was made to overcome the problem of rootless accesses to mounting09:43
debianistpiiti : ?09:43
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pittidebianist: it often runs as root in other distros to be able to mess up the fstab09:45
pittidebianist: but apart from that it only needs some additional groups and capabilities, so we have it run as 'hal' in Warty09:46
pittidebianist: hal is such a complex program, it shouldn't run as root09:46
debianistpitti : i am very interested in learning all the I can about it, would you point me to the proper places to start reading all about it?09:46
pittidebianist: http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/WartyWarthog_2fSecurityReports has all of my security reports09:47
pittidebianist: I tried to remove privileges from as many programs as possible09:47
debianistpitti : does it mess anything up with an already working installation of X? I have nvidia closed bin drivers on the laptop, and when installting hal and g-v-m my nvidia setup stopped working. luckily when removing the packages, everything went back to normal.09:48
pittidebianist: hmm, I cannot see how hal and gvm should influence the X graphics driver09:49
pittidebianist: gvm runs as user without any privileges, so it cannot mess up nvidia09:49
debianistpitti : well, it had all it's dependecies installed, dbus-1 also and the others.09:49
pittidebianist: hal has some more privileges, maybe it does some scans which irritate the nvidia driver09:49
pittidebianist: does the problem also occur with hal running as root?09:50
debianistpitti : strange..i was also surprised to see that, even more to realize removing the packages worked. :)09:50
debianistpitti : actually i think that is the way it's set up on sid09:51
pittidebianist: it is.09:51
debianistpitti : i didn't do anything manually, only apt-get install <pkgs>09:51
pittidebianist: I proposed the patch also to Debian, but they did not adopt it yet09:51
pittidebianist: luckily I could convince upstream to adopt the changes09:51
debianistpitti : the patch to have it purely user mode?09:51
pittidebianist: which patch?09:51
debianist"I proposed the patch also to Debian, but they did not adopt it yet"09:52
fabbionegrep: /etc/environmment: No such file or directory09:52
fabbione * Stopping GNOME Display Manager...                                                                                             [ ok ] 09:52
fabbione * Starting GNOME Display Manager...                                                                                             [ ok ] 09:52
pittidebianist: ah, the patched hal to allow it to run also as non-root09:52
pittidebianist: you can switch it with debconf:09:52
pittidebianist: sudo dpkg-reconfigure hal09:52
pittidebianist: default is user for Warty, root for sid09:53
debianistuser in warty, as in the first regular users that the system created?09:53
pittidebianist: no, it runs as its own system user called 'hal'09:53
pittidebianist: it's all in the security report and changelog09:53
pittidebianist: do you have access to the wiki?09:54
debianisti see. much as an apache server would run and not be given root access09:54
debianistpitti : yes i do, however i tend to get lost there ;-)09:54
pittidebianist: I posted the URL above09:54
debianistoh, it did asked for user name and password ; is that the oinky one?09:55
pittidebianist: basically it's user hal + some privileged groups + some kernel capabilities (CAP_NET_ADMIN IIRC)09:55
pittidebianist: hal does not prompt for that09:55
pittidebianist: it just asks whether to run hal as user or as root09:55
debianistpitti : this would work on the sid also?09:56
debianiste.g. the dpkg-reconfigure magic09:56
pittidebianist: yes, as soon as the patch is adopted in sid09:57
debianistpitti : oh ok, ubuntu strengths are starting to show...;)09:58
pittidebianist: actually we are quite good at the moment09:58
pittidebianist: all nonnecessary suid root bits and root daemons are eliminated09:58
pittidebianist: I hope that it will get even better, I try to convince the guys to have mandatory access control by default09:58
debianistpitti : reading the secuiryt policy..yeah looks like it's going to rock09:59
pittidebianist: but this is of course Hoary09:59
debianistpitti : what do you mean by access control mandatory, which parts?09:59
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pittidebianist: things like grsecurity, RSBAC and SELinux10:01
thompitti: i think everyone agrees that in principal it's a good idea. we just have to work out which system, and how to present it to the user10:01
thom(I guess we use SELinux, since RHAT are already tackling these kinds of problems)10:02
pittidebianist: you have a global fine-grained privilege policy that cannot be overriden by users, processes and packages10:02
debianistbut that can be too restricting ?10:02
pittithom: grsecurity has the advantage that it also brings a lot of other security-enhancing patches, PaX is not the least important one :-)10:02
pittidebianist: on a server it is not too hard, but on a Desktop it will get tricky10:02
pittidebianist: I guess/hope it will become by Hoary job to deal with this10:03
pittithom: however, SELinux is upstream in Linux, so it is a good candidate10:03
debianistyeah. we might need to conduct user session see where are the pitfalls, which parts to leave open etc10:03
debianiste.g. do an experiment with a suggested policy, see how it serves the users in simulated real life usage10:03
pittidebianist: actually normal users should not notice that there are additional ACLs10:04
thompitti: nod. (to both points)10:04
pittiguys, I need some breakfast. Returning soon.10:04
thomit'll be interesting to see how fedora core 3 is received10:04
=== fabbione adds more apt lines to base-config
fabbionei need some suggestions...10:09
fabbioneif we install from the net we can safely add different apt-lines like restricted, security & co...10:09
fabbioneand base-config will test them10:09
fabbioneBUT (of course there is always a but)10:09
fabbioneinstalling from cdrom...10:10
fabbioneshould we add the lines before or after the test?10:10
fabbionein the former case... what if it fails to test?10:10
=== debianist thinks of testing last night build on his machine. backup or no backup, what could go wrong?
debianistif i have other OSs on the sid's menu.lst , they would be added also right?10:14
=== debianist trying custom ubuntu
=== debianist is intriged by how the partitoner knows where it can downsize the existing ext3 partiton without damagin data
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pittifabbione: maybe it makes sense to add the lines, but comment them out?10:33
pittifabbione: this will make it easier for the user to enable them, but it makes no sense to have them by default if you have no network10:33
fabbionepitti: that's what i was thinking....10:33
fabbionethere is also the issue of which mirror to use....10:34
fabbionebut i guess we can default to no-name-yet10:34
pittifabbione: do we actually have mirrors ATM?10:35
pittifabbione: the user selects a region/country, so in the future we could have a mapping country -> mirror10:35
fabbionepitti: no we don't have official mirrors, but for instance if i choose the mirror manually i want that to be respected10:38
fabbionepitti: and the mapping is done already somehow10:38
pittifabbione: you want to add a custom mirror dialog to base-config?10:39
pittifabbione: people who are doing that can probably edit sources.list by hand, don't they?10:40
pittifabbione: most of the users won't care about the particular mirror10:40
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pittiseb128: good morning10:41
seb128hey pitti 10:41
pittiseb128: there are still two untranslated items in my Computer menu10:42
seb128which ones ?10:42
pittiseb128: "about Ubuntu" and "Printing"10:42
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jdubyo seb128 10:42
seb128oh, printing is not a panel one, it's a desktop file10:42
pittiseb128: IIRC "About Ubuntu" should belong to yesterday's translation 10:43
seb128hey hey jdub 10:43
pittiseb128: interestingly, the bubble help of About Ubuntu is translated10:43
fabbionelittle flood:10:43
fabbione        # Warty change add extra commented apt-lines10:43
fabbione        if [ "$URI" = "cdrom" ] ; then10:43
fabbione                echo "" >> ${APTETC}sources.list10:43
fabbione                echo "# Uncomment the following line to fetch update software from the network or" >> ${APTETC}sources.list10:43
fabbione                echo "#deb http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/no-name-yet $DIST main restricted" >> ${APTETC}sources.list10:43
fabbione        fi10:43
fabbione        echo "# uncomment the following line to be able to use more than 12000 unsupported packages." >> ${APTETC}sources.list10:43
fabbione        echo "#deb http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/no-name-yet $DIST main restricted universe" >> ${APTETC}sources.list10:43
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fabbionehow does it look?10:44
fabbionethe latter needs s/n-n-y.com/$MIRROR10:44
seb128pitti: the string is in your po file, I'll check for the next upload10:45
pittifabbione: nice in general. Can you please add another comment for the deb-src?10:45
pittiseb128: the "Printing" string is somewhere in the gnome cups packages?10:45
pittiseb128: we really need Rosetta, don't we?10:46
fabbionepitti: yes.. it was next in the TODO :)10:46
pittifabbione: another hing. You add the restricted universe regardless of whether you install from CD-ROM?10:46
pittifabbione: this line is not contained in the if URI = cdrom10:47
seb128pitti: yeah :)10:47
fabbionepitti: uh?10:49
fabbionepitti: i am not sure i undesrtand what you mean10:49
pittifabbione: you add the first #deb line only if URI=cdrom, but you add the second #deb line unconditionally10:50
fabbioneyes that's correct10:51
fabbionebecause universe is always disabled by default10:51
fabbioneif you are netinstalling main and restricted are enabled10:52
fabbionebut not universe10:52
pittifabbione: ah, I understand.10:53
fabbioneso basically the universe note will go in with cdrom|http|ftp and in case the user re-run base-config and says: "No i don't want universe"10:53
fabbioneotherwise the note will not be added10:53
fabbionedoes it make sense?10:53
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pittifabbione: another thing: is it necessary to repeat main and restricted in the universe line?10:58
pittifabbione: users may come to the idea to enable both, I don't know whether this hurts10:59
pittifabbione: both = both lines10:59
fabbionepitti: we agreed to show the entire example.11:04
fabbionein any case people that will touch manually sources.list are supposed to know what they are doing11:04
pittifabbione: okay, that makes sense11:07
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sabdflhi all11:13
pittihi sabdfl11:14
fabbionehi sabdfl 11:16
fabbioneAHHH here it is...!11:21
fabbionethe loop in apt-setup is evil11:21
seb128hey sabdfl 11:22
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:jdub] : SSDS | Meeting at 16:00 UTC | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
jdubso i'm developing a problem11:26
jdub(to complement all the other ones, haw haw, very funny)11:27
jdubin that, whenever i type 'n'11:27
jdubi end up typing 'ntu'11:27
jdubi think i can claim this on worker's compensation11:27
jdubas "crippling limitation on typing capacity"11:27
Riffjdub: you are obsessed with ISDN11:27
Riffyou brain can't help typing NTU11:28
jdubis ntu an isdn thing?11:28
Riffwell, not specifically, but you see the term a lot11:28
Riffa Network Termination Unit11:28
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sabdflseb128 hi11:29
sabdfli have a .xscreensaver base to contribute, where can I put it? it needs to become the default *or at least the start of the discussion :-)11:30
seb128in the bug report #946 ?11:31
sabdflseb128: ok thanks11:33
thomsabdfl: or use the wiki page referenced in the bug11:34
thomeither way :-)11:34
jdubseb128: oh man11:41
seb128hey jdub :)11:41
jdubseb128: seriously arse string change bug11:41
jdubClear the Recent Documents list?11:42
jdubIf you clear the Recent Documents list, you clear the following:11:42
jdub All items from the Actions  Recent Documents menu item.11:42
jdub All items from the recent documents list in all applications.11:42
jdub"Actions  Recent Documents"11:42
seb128oh yes11:42
sabdflgood catch11:43
jdubseb128: do you like the wifi/battery disabled icons?11:43
jdubseb128: i was playing with the mixer applet earlier, and thinking i must be stupid trying to read the code11:44
jdubseb128: and later on, BBB blogged about rewriting it because the code was so horrific ;)11:44
seb128yes, the icons are nice11:44
seb128he he11:45
seb128jdub: no feedback for the moment, I hope than the profile selection (desktop/laptop) for the panel works11:45
seb128worked fine during my tests here ...11:46
jdubseb128: oh yeah, meant to say that was meant for gnome-session first startup rather than install 8)11:46
jdubseb128: but it's fine for now :)11:46
=== jdub tries not to scare seb128
seb128what's wrong with doing it in the postinst ?11:47
seb128that's where we register the default config11:47
jdubnothing wrong11:48
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seb128jdub: have you seen the problem with nautilus and vfat drives ? All the files are +x, so nautilus just try to run them and silently fails, so nothing happens11:52
seb128that's pretty bad ...11:52
ddaajdub: .au keyboard have a [->]  key one them or what?11:53
jdubddaa: as in the cursor keys?11:54
jdubseb128: haven't seen that11:54
ddaaas in " Actions  Recent Documents menu item"11:54
jdubseb128: but i can imagine that not too many people test-- hrm; of course they do -> cameras11:54
jdubddaa: copy and pasted :)11:54
sabdflseb128: are the wifi / battery percentages disabled by default now?11:56
sabdflthom: what's the best way to disable most of the screensavers?11:57
thomsabdfl: no idea, am justa bout to look into it11:57
seb128sabdfl: apparently no, they should ?11:57
sabdflseb128: correct11:57
sabdfldisplay only the icon11:57
sabdflmouseover should give percentage11:57
seb128ok, will do the change in the next upload11:58
sabdfljdub: wifi applet gives strange mousover messae when wifi signal is gone11:58
sabdfl"no wireless device"11:58
thomsabdfl: i take it that the list already on the bug is that same as the one you had in mind? (for .xscreensaver)11:59
jdubsabdfl: don't like that? (it's a string change...)12:01
jdubsabdfl: no percentages is hard to do with the battery applet12:01
jdubsabdfl: unless we show the graph + icon12:01
jdub(and currently, the graph doesn't grey out nicely on disabled)12:04
sabdflthom: not quite, i've tuned to include some newer ones12:05
sabdfljdub: graph being the big green monster?12:05
jdubsabdfl: yes 8)12:06
sabdfllet's go with mouseover for the moment12:06
jdubsabdfl: the power state icon gives no indication of time remaining12:06
sabdflwe'll get the guy to add graph-in-battery-icon for Hoary12:06
sabdflso users will just see a richer pic in Hoary12:06
sabdflam trying to keep screen real-estate precious12:06
sabdflanother idea - could these things become notifications in Hoary, rather than applets?12:07
sabdflalso, how do I make notifications extend to the left along the panel, rather than to the right of the widget12:07
jdubit should do that already12:08
jdubwhen there's a new nicon, the applet should expand12:08
sabdflhmm... ok12:08
jdub(but it doesn't contract, at this stage, from memory)12:08
sabdfland the grippy is just to give you something to rt-click on?12:08
sabdflwell, we work with what we have :-)12:08
sabdflit's looking good here12:08
sabdfleven with the b&w debugging icons12:09
sabdflis andy actually running warty?12:09
jdubi thought he was doing an install the other day12:09
ddaaProbably not the right place to speak of it, but I think the launcher/applet/notification distinction is a bit bogus. For example, if you have a gaim launcher, you end up with two gaim icons in the panel. Once again Apple hit something with their "polymorphic" icons in the doc...12:12
ddaai.e. the gaim launcher should also play the role of the notification12:13
ddaaand solving it using an applet is (slightly) counter-intuitive.12:13
jdubddaa: totally12:14
ddaaSimilarly, the trash applet is actually a launcher+notification.12:15
jdubddaa: that whole area needs serious improvement in gnome (and not just random guesswork)12:15
sabdflddaa: so ideally, gaim is just gaim. if its running, clicking that thing brings it to the focus. if it isn't, clicking it starts it up?12:15
jdubddaa: i started writing an analysis of osx's execution model a while back12:15
jdubddaa: which i hoped would fuel some more work on this, but it's a really huge lump of work to fix properly12:16
ddaasabdfl: yes, that's the idea. And if it is launched, right-clicking pops the notification's menu.12:16
ddaajdub: nice to see that upstream is thinking about it :)12:17
thomwe need to make sure the notification icon is the same as the real icon for gaim, as well12:19
jdubthom: well, ddaa is talking about making them one and the same object :)12:20
thomjdub: yes, and that's a viable goal for warty :P12:21
ddaabtw, who is working on the compositing manager support for warty? :P12:22
pittithom: did you claim yesterday that gksudo did not segfault at your machine?12:30
thompitti: i did indeed12:30
pittithom:  I did not hallucinate. It took me a few hours, but I know the reason12:30
pittithom: the f**ing beast reads 256 bytes into a 16 byte buffer12:31
pittithom: maybe you just were lucky12:31
pittithom: you should have never get any error messages, did you?12:31
pittithom: gksudo reads the output of sudo12:31
=== pitti is greatly relieved
thomthat's somewhat disturbing12:32
pittiI've got an appointment for my future health insurance, returning in some hours12:33
Mithrandirit's fucking crackful12:33
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debianistwhat about?12:52
debianistmany new boot messages i don't recognize from debian are when ubuntu boots first time after install12:54
debianistclock synchronization for pool.ntp.org failed12:55
debianistok, my ubuntu QEMU is installed.01:11
debianistI didn't get no X and gnome,01:12
debianisti used "custom" that figures.01:12
debianistno vim ?01:12
Kamionfixed last night01:13
jdubdebianist: bug in current versions, was fixed about 10 hours ago01:13
Kamionwe used to be looking for vim-tiny, which doesn't exist01:13
debianisti se01:13
debianisti see01:13
fabbionehey Kamion 01:13
Kamion"morning" fabio01:13
jdubmorning Kamion 01:13
debianistit didn't ask me no administrator password on setup01:13
debianistwhat is it?01:13
jdubdebianist: root is disabled01:14
jdubdebianist: use sudo01:14
jdubdebianist: ideally, read the FAQ on the wiki :)01:14
debianistjdub : on my way ;)01:14
fabbioneKamion: i am testing the new base_config right now01:20
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fabbioneKamion: base-config works on netinstall, and it should work 99.9% on cdrom install. the 0.1 is just because i couldn't test it live01:27
Kamionwell, I'll be testing it soon enough anyway01:29
fabbionewe will still miss security01:29
fabbionebut i really need the archive in place for that01:30
fabbioneall the other stuff is added, but commented out.. so it's no point of failure01:30
debianistfrom the wiki :" You can run programs as root with sudo, for example: sudo apt-get update,"01:37
debianistit doesn't work.01:37
debianisti have to set up a root password before01:37
debianistwhich would enable the root account01:37
jdubwhat happens when you type sudo apt-get update?01:37
debianistjdub : Password:_ 01:38
Kamiondebianist: *your* password, not root's01:38
jdubdebianist: type in *your* password01:38
fabbionedebianist: enter your password01:38
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seb128your password :p01:38
Mithrandirjdub/kamion: that should probably be explained somewhere?01:38
fabbionehey lucas_ 01:38
seb128hey lucas_ 01:38
debianistyou mean regular user password?01:39
fabbionelucas_: i was just waiting for you to show up :-)01:39
Mithrandirdebianist: yes01:39
thomdebianist: yes01:39
fabbionedebianist: yes01:39
jdubdebianist: yes, yours01:39
lucas_oh, you should have mailed me01:39
seb128debianist: yes01:39
=== jdub thought that was noted on the wiki, i'll update it
fabbionelucas_: no rush :-)01:39
debianisthey hey, was that so dumb of me to ask?01:39
lucas_I could have shown up earlier01:39
fabbionelucas_: i need you to install xserver-xfree86-gdb and run a nice gdb session for that segfault01:39
mjg59Have you managed to sort the via crash yet?01:40
fabbionedo you think you can handle it yourself?01:40
lucas_will do that down, I'm too sleepy to do something else01:40
fabbionemjg59: not until i will have a via chipset to work on01:40
fabbionelucas_: cool01:40
fabbionelucas_: just add the info to the bug...01:40
lucas_rebooting, then ...01:41
fabbionethanks :-)01:41
fabbionetake the time you need01:41
debianistseb128 : i thought it needs the root password01:41
seb128do you have the root password ? :p01:41
Mithrandirmjg59: what via crash?01:42
mjg59Mithrandir: XFree was deeply unhappy on the via graphics chipsetted laptops01:42
fabbioneMithrandir: ddcprobe on via chipset = X dies01:42
Mithrandirmjg59: ok, via graphics chipset, I don't think I have that01:42
seb128debianist: you only have one password, the system ask for a password ... give this one :)01:42
fabbione"thank you for choosing Ubuntu"01:43
fabbioneanother installation success01:43
debianistseb128 : is it some sudo workaround? or it's default behavior regardless the distro it's on?01:44
seb128default behaviour01:44
jdubdebianist: using sudo means you never have to use your root password01:46
jdubdebianist: we go one step further by disabling the root password entirely01:46
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lucas_fabbione: where is that xfree86-xserver-gdb ?01:47
fabbioneno problem :D01:47
fabbionelucas_: before you rebooted i was going to write: 1) take the time you need 2) the same driver is in debian since yesterday01:48
debianistjdub : sudo wraps the root process ?01:48
debianistjdub : and let a regular user exectue?01:48
seb128man sudo01:48
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lucas_fabbione: it just crashes, it doesn't segfault01:58
lucas_(and I've checked I have the VideoRam option)01:59
fabbioneok.. but i guess you can get a backtrace and so on..01:59
lucas_crashes=screen go black01:59
lucas_like without the VideoRAM option01:59
fabbionethat sucks02:00
lucas_I'll try to get a log of the crash to see if I can see something02:00
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Kamionwow, amusing base-installer bug02:09
Kamiontotally broke on a CD with no kernel-image-* packages, only linux-image-* ...02:10
Oskurois that a new name?02:12
fabbioneKamion: how is that possible if it worked on netinstall?02:12
Oskurojdub: just in ubuntu or also in Debian?02:12
Kamionfabbione: netinstall had the full archive to play with, which still contains kernel-image-*02:12
KamionOskuro: just in Ubuntu02:12
=== fabbione checks the access.log
Kamionfabbione: it won't necessarily have *used* them02:13
Kamionfabbione: but it needed apt-cache search kernel-image | grep ^kernel-image to return true :-)02:13
Kamion(fixed in the upload I just made)02:13
fabbionethat make sense02:13
fabbioneno.. it didn't use them02:14
seb128arg, daily iso is failing02:14
Kamionseb128: what's your failure?02:14
seb128error on the kernel package during the base installation 02:14
Kamionseb128: scroll up02:15
seb128ok :)02:15
fabbioneyou talk about the devil... and someone gets the horn02:15
Kamionyou can keep your horn to yourself02:15
fabbioneoh it's nothing bad..02:16
fabbioneit's just a common way of saying in italy02:16
fabbioneit's like when you talk about the weather and that it is not raining for a while, you can be sure that in 10 minutes there will be a hurricane02:16
Kamion"speak of the devil and he shall appear" is the saying here02:16
Kamionor variants02:16
jdubseb128: dude, they're calling you satan. let's steal their pants.02:17
jdubthom: did you happen to change any of the other defaults in xscreensaver?02:18
jdub'cos some of the defaults are pretty cracky02:18
seb128grrrrr, I need to do a fresh install to debug some stuff02:19
sabdflthom: looks like we need to update /etc/X11/app-defaults/XScreenSaver-gl right?02:19
sabdflcan I just send you a patch?02:19
fabbioneseb128: net install is your friend :-)02:20
seb128my connexion is damn slow02:21
fabbioneseb128: you only need to do the base install02:21
fabbioneseb128: after that you can keep going from cdrom02:21
seb128and to use the CD after that02:21
Kamionseb128: there's another approach02:21
Kamionseb128: after "loading installer components from CD" and before the base installation, edit /var/lib/dpkg/info/base-installer.postinst02:22
Kamionseb128: look for "linux-image", and you'll find two lines like this02:22
Kamion        (chroot /target apt-cache search kernel-image | grep ^kernel-image;02:22
Kamion         chroot /target apt-cache search linux-image | grep ^linux-image) | \02:22
Kamionseb128: change them to this:02:22
Kamion        (set +e;02:23
Kamion         chroot /target apt-cache search kernel-image | grep ^kernel-image;02:23
Kamion         chroot /target apt-cache search linux-image | grep ^linux-image) | \02:23
seb128ok, I'll try this, thanks02:23
fabbionehmm i just had a dejavu02:23
thomsabdfl: already uploaded02:23
fabbionethe matrix is changing something around me02:24
Kamionsorry for the mistake, it was my bug02:24
thomjdub: such as?02:25
jdubthom: all of the image manipulation and diagnostics settings should be off02:25
jdubthom: (though we could supply a bunch of piccies for choose random image, but we don't have them yet)02:26
jdubthom: we could enable power management there02:26
jdubthom: the fade to/from black could both be on, set at 2 seconds02:26
Kamionelmo: is linux-kernel-di-powerpc-2.6 in NEW, or did it fail to build?02:26
elmokamion: nothing in NEW, I checked this morning so I guess the latter02:27
elmoI'll go find details02:27
Kamiondamn, oh well02:27
jdubthom: thoughts?02:27
thomjdub: fish.02:27
KamionI was too sleepy when I uploaded that02:27
jdubthom: plus i don't think we really answered the screen locking question02:27
thomjdub: which screen locking question02:27
elmo  Depends             : linux-image-
Kamionuh, crap02:28
jdubthom: whether we enable it by default or not02:28
Kamionok, I just suck, I'll test it this time :/02:28
Gmanjdub, you want a gtk2 screen locking patch so that jamie can get pissed off at ubuntu too?02:28
=== Gman runs
thomGman: hell yes02:28
jdubGman: that's actually sitting in our bug tracker too02:28
Gmanjdub, heh, rock02:28
jdubGman: i might help Riff finish off the gscreensaver patches02:29
debianistdoes ubuntu have a network install servers? my cdrom is not operating ..:(02:30
Kamionit's on the wiki02:30
jdubthom: do you want me to deal with those?02:30
thomjdub: you can deal with the screen locking02:31
debianistKamion : there is such servce?02:31
jdubthom: well, that's unanswered, i'm more interested in the other settings02:32
thomagree with image manip, diag02:32
thomagree with fade02:32
thomthink i agree with power management also02:32
thomdoing now02:33
jduboh, ok02:33
jdubwas happy to do them, just wanted to raise it :)02:33
thomwell, since i have the source and was in the dir, it seemed churlish not to02:34
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=== thom wonders where spiv and hypatia have got to
thomjdub: ok, what are reasonable defaults for power management?02:48
jdubstandby 15, suspend 30, off 60?02:49
jdubor 30:45:60?02:49
jdubmmm, perhaps 30:45:60, because most people's screensaver timeout will be between 10 and 3002:50
thomwe need to leave grab desktop images on for antinspect and antspotlight02:51
Kamionelmo: ok, should be fixed now02:51
jdubthom: desktop images on == information leak02:52
jdubthom: (a selection of random images would be nice)02:52
=== jdub notices that xscreensaver-demo uses the old file selector
jdubjustdave: the bottom bar in bz looks like baby spew!02:55
jdubjustdave: btw, bz.org looks tops02:55
ploumwhere can I find a good tuto to learn how to use signal with gstreamer ?02:56
jdubploum: pretty sure gstreamer.net links to their docs02:56
jdubploum: and #gstreamer is on this network, from memory02:56
ploumjdub, I'm sorry ! I wrote in the wrong tab02:57
ploum#gstreamer is next to this tab..02:58
ploumArgh !02:58
ploum(I'm better than before. I only missed the good one for a few pixel, no more)02:58
ploumsorry for the noise02:58
jduboh man03:12
jdubthe NEC i-Select M461003:12
jdubseen one of those recently? :)03:13
debianistcan anybody tell if there is a boot server for installing ubuntu? I don't mean I'll set up one,'d like to know if canonical has one03:26
Kamionwe don't have a netboot server (you can't do that quite so remotely); the files you need to set up your own are in the warty archive though03:28
debianistany docs on the wiki for how to set it up?03:28
debianistbtw, the meeting has started already?03:30
debianistoh 3 mour hours before the meeting03:30
debianistis there also floppy installation for ubuntu? 03:42
thomsabdfl: i'm concerned about the number of GL screensavers you have in the current list. they will look awful without acceleration...03:54
elmoyeah, we should hax0r xscreensaver to disable them if there's no dri03:54
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seb128look awful and eat resources03:57
debianistin order to resize an already existing ext3 journaling fs in d-i of ubuntu i just change it's size on the partman edit partition screen?03:57
fabbionei guess sabdfl will buy 3d cards to everybody :P03:58
elmodoes xscreensaver stop doing stuff when it goes into powersave mode btw?  [my monitor, gfx card and X don't get along and like to pretend DPMS doesn't exist so I can't check myself] 03:59
sabdflthey won't run if you remove screensaver-gl04:00
thomelmo: i believe so04:03
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thompersonally, i think we should just enable bouncing cow04:07
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thomand on a non-jovial note, i think a fairly small selection of default screensavers, such as we have with my last upload, is reasonable04:15
diemanbouncing cow!04:17
diemani personally think that the apple ] [ pong mode should be the only screensaver.04:18
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=== fabbione sets bouncing cows as default
sabdflthom: list is complete now04:21
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sabdflbouncing cow included :-)04:22
fabbionei never saw it before.. it's lovely04:22
sabdfl62 screensavers04:23
sabdfl44 of them GL04:24
sabdflhow good is evo 2 offline more?04:24
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thomsabdfl: ... as awful as its online mode?04:25
thomsays the committed mutt junky04:26
sabdflmutt doesn't seem to like the number of folders I have, nor the latency of my mailserver link04:26
sabdflwhy does read-edid show up as obsolete?04:30
thomah. i have the latter fixed to some extent, the former is trickier (i only have 50 or so folders)04:30
thombecause we don't use it04:30
sabdflok, thanks04:30
Kamionxresprobe pretty much replaced read-edid for our purposes04:32
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danielser, no04:36
danielsddcprobe pretty much replaced read-edid for our purposes04:36
danielsif you call xresprobe with a laptop (and, if you're on powerpc, ddc must not produce any resolutions), then you need X to be installed and usable04:37
=== HenrikOxUK [~Miranda@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
danielsif you can't guarantee that, you need to use ddc only and /usr/share/xresprobe/ddcprobe.sh will give you nice, defined output for a ddc probe04:37
Kamiondaniels: the xresprobe package, I mean04:38
danielsalso, disabling gl screensavers per default is pretty sane04:38
danielsi occasionally turn up home (or wake up) to a locked computer, and it's only ever occurred with long-running gl screensavers, not 2d04:38
danielsKamion: right04:38
Kamionsabdfl: hm, you actually have more folders than me?04:38
=== debianist [~debianist@] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionthen again I don't use mutt over IMAP04:38
danielsKamion: well, note the above if you ever need to use xresprobe for anything installer-wise or whatever :)04:38
Kamiondaniels: I plan not to touch X if I can help it, but thanks :)04:40
=== daniels puts on a white sheet and runs in circles around Kamion.
=== Mithrandir hits daniels with a poker
danielssweet mother of god, our tetex setup appears to be broken now :\04:42
=== Kamion throws holy water at daniels
danielsMithrandir: i'm melltinnnnggggg!04:42
danielsKamion: YOU ONLY MAKE ME STRONGER04:42
Kamion  * If /etc/apt/sources.list already contains a cdrom: URI on a new04:42
Kamion    base-config run (i.e. archive-copier ran 'apt-cdrom add'), then skip all04:42
Kamion    CD probing.04:42
Kamionbets on this working?04:42
danielsKamion: same as england beating australia in any sporting ocntest within the next week04:44
danielsKamion: <subliminal>shinygraphicalinstaller</subliminal>04:44
Mithrandirdaniels: sure, we'll make d-i shinygraphical04:44
Kamionoh dear04:44
Mithrandirbut not today04:44
fabbioneKamion: did you check if base-config will keep adding all the apt lines?04:45
fabbioneKamion: otherwise i am happy with it :-)))04:45
Kamionfabbione: shouldn't affect that piece of code04:46
fabbioneKamion: ah hold on a sec.. there is no cdrom: uri in first install04:46
Kamionthere is now04:46
fabbioneKamion: there is file:///cdrom04:46
Kamiondon't worry, I know what I'm doing here :)04:46
fabbioneoh... did you update menu/apt-setup to match for it?04:46
Kamionarchive-copier (0.0.3) warty; urgency=low04:46
Kamion  * Add prebaseconfig script to run 'apt-cdrom add' if packages were copied.04:46
Kamion -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@canonical.com>  Tue,  7 Sep 2004 13:08:36 +010004:46
=== fabbione hugs and kisses Kamion
Kamionthe prebaseconfig script in archive-copier will replace the file:///cdrom/ entry with a cdrom: URI04:47
fabbioneKamion: rocking!04:48
fabbionetoo bad i have to go in like 2 minutes ago04:49
fabbionebut i will test it tomorrow04:49
=== Mithrandir whacks thunderbird
fabbionecya guys04:49
sabdfldoes evo have a threaded view?04:50
danielssabdfl: yah, it's under the view menu04:51
danielsmight be triggered by ctrl-t04:51
danielsfabbione: seeya04:51
danielsso we're down fabio and jeff -- ho hum04:51
sabdfloh horrors04:52
sabdflis there a keyboard-only way to file/move a message to a folder?04:52
danielsit's not ctrl-m, is it?04:53
danielsistr coming up against this problem when i was using it locally04:53
danielssabdfl: ctrl-shift-v04:53
danielsargh! i hate latex. so broken. :\04:58
danielsanyone here know latex much?04:58
Mithrandirhow so?04:58
danielsMithrandir: can't build t1-cyrillic from stock warty04:58
danielsMithrandir: fmtutil complains that it can't find fmtutil.cnf, yet it's there, and running kpsewhich --format='web2c files' fmtutil.cnf, by hand works04:59
danielsseems maybe exporting all the variables breaks it?04:59
MithrandirFTBFS from the package?04:59
danielsftbfs by hand04:59
danielsi[e. download source, satisfy buuild-deps, debuild04:59
Mithrandiryou satisfy pfa with fontforge?05:00
danielsyeah, and change the two files that run wifh pfaedit to use fontforge05:01
danielsbut it fails in calling latex(1)05:01
=== thom pokes seb128 . gconf still sucks
Mithrandirdaniels: how do you handle tetex-src ?05:03
danielsMithrandir: um, apt-get install tetex-source, or whatever it was05:04
danielsi ran debuild, it complained about build-deps, so i installed them all05:04
danielsthom: i don't think seb can quite fix that ;)05:04
MithrandirE: Couldn't find package tetex-src05:05
danielsargh, universe :\05:05
seb128thom: doing a new today's iso installation right now with your locale ...05:06
Kamiondaniels: you mirror universe?05:06
thomseb128: once you experience the power of real english, you'll never want to leave :-)05:06
danielsKamion: ya-huh05:06
danielsthom: i saw the keyboards and fled straight back, dude05:07
=== lamont mirrors about 10 binary packages (and their source) from universe. That's enough to keep me happy.
Mithrandirlamont: will you hate me very much for the ooo-amd64 package?05:08
danielsMithrandir: not just lamont05:08
Mithrandiror rather, will your network connection hate me?05:08
lamontMithrandir: does it deliver any binaries into i386?05:09
danielsMithrandir: please tell me it's .*_amd64\.deb05:09
Mithrandirit's an amd64.deb, yes.05:09
=== daniels has a rather long exclude line that (now) takes care of powerpc, and has always taken care of amd64 (as well as the installer stuff)
lamontdaniels: I suspect that source is large too05:09
Mithrandirbut it's a big chunk of source.05:09
daniels... 300MB of source?05:09
=== lamont won't see it unless it has binary .debs in i386
Mithrandirdaniels: around that size, yes.05:09
danielssweet mother of god.05:09
danielswhy must you taunt me?05:10
lamontdaniels: pay no attention to the cluster inside the build process...05:10
thomi should fix mine to exclude ppc now05:10
=== lamont actually munges Packages/Sources files around into a new and consistant subset, based on his list of binary/source packages to include.
danielslamont: ... dude.05:10
danielslamont: does anything you have actually work as the creator intended? ;)05:11
lamontdaniels: these aren't the droids you're looking for.... they can pass....05:11
lamontdaniels: better to have a consistant Packages file, than part of an archive.05:11
danielslamont: yeah, i think it's best if i let it go without thinking about it too much :P05:11
lamontor rather, a Packages file that claims the mirror has files it doesn't.05:11
seb128hey mdz 05:12
lamont(my main mirror is all binaries, minus *-dbg, universe is just a few packages)05:12
Kamionmorning mdz05:12
lamontmorning mdz05:12
seb128thom: ok, not for today, I can't get a warty installed for 2 days now05:12
seb128thom: will try with next iso05:13
Kamionjust finishing this cdrom-detect test, then when that's built I'll upload new debian-installer, then when that's built and byhanded I'll build new isos ...05:13
seb128ok, please let me know05:14
Kamionwith any luck I'll be able to release those05:14
seb128when it's ready05:14
luluhey guys - please vote on the Canonical logo - see email and wiki https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/LogosAndBranding - thanks :o)05:14
lamontlulu: again? :-)05:15
Mithrandirdaniels: hints.awk fails to run here.05:16
luluoops - sorry wrong channel.. :o(05:16
=== lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu []
Kamionmdz: if you wanted to remove pppoe, then pppoeconf will need to go too05:20
mdzKamion: it shouldn't05:21
mdzaccording to md, pppoeconf can configure ppp-with-pppoe-support also05:21
mdzand the dependencies seem to reflect this05:21
mdzoh, our version is older05:21
mdzunstable: Depends: whiptail-provider | whiptail, ppp (>= 2.4.2+20040428-2) | pppoe (>= 3.0), ppp (>= 2.4.1.uus2-4)05:21
mdzwartylog: Depends: whiptail-provider | whiptail, pppoe (>= 3.0), ppp (>= 2.4.1.uus2-4)05:21
lamontMithrandir: no OO-amd64 source even.  You may live.05:23
Mithrandirlamont: :)05:23
lamont(syncing locally, that is.)05:23
MithrandirI haven't uploaded it yet.05:24
lamontbut no content in binary-i386/Packages, yes?05:24
thommdz: g'morning05:25
Mithrandirlamont: it's arch: amd64, all of it.05:25
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-22-92.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
lamontMithrandir: you may live.05:26
=== Mithrandir goes to celebrate by making dinner
=== debianist [~debianist@] has joined #ubuntu
mdzKamion: is this a problem for the CD build?05:28
mdzI'm going to upload a new pppoeconf05:28
debianistwhat happens on the "starting ubuntu" prompt?05:28
Mithrandirkernel is silent05:30
debianisthas the warty-iso image changed lately? since last night?05:30
debianist(trying to figure if i'd better download a new image)05:30
kagouMithrandir, do you mean that the silent came from "quiet" parameter in grub menu config ?05:30
Kamionmdz: not too bothered05:30
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debianistwhy is when rebooting ubuntu, after it started stopping services it suddenly print out a bunch of  "Loading <a_service>" messages?05:34
debianistif any, it should be "Unloading <a_service>" ?05:35
mdzdebianist: file a bug with the specific text that you see05:36
debianistmdz : k05:36
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
debianisttried to manually edit a ext3 partition, choose new size. waited 10 secs. (partition is with bas install only) come back to partitons data, see partition size unchanged. bug?05:40
debianistpart size was = 939MB05:40
debianistnew size requested = 539MB05:40
kagoudebianist, you try with d-i 05:41
kagouor fdisk ?05:41
debianistd-i , e.g. partman 05:42
debianistwhich is a frontend to parted05:42
Kamionthere used to be a bug like that but I thought it was gone05:42
KamionI'll see if I can reproduce it next time I have the opportunity; in the meantime, please file a bug05:42
debianistok, my 2 first bugs on their way. :) wooha i'm thrilled :)05:43
danielsoh dear05:45
danielsthat turkish soap made everything else look fantastic in comparison05:45
=== lamont grumbles about debian-installer-manual and daily builds
Kamionthe way the manual takes ages to build, you mean?05:49
lamontnah, the way it's always out of date for my mirror script, because of the daily builds.05:49
Kamionthe daily builds might as well not build debian-installer-manual, if we can figure out how to suppress that; it's a waste of time and space05:50
debianistKamion : tag it under parted, or partman ?05:50
Kamiondebianist: partman05:50
Mithrandiris it 24h-daily build or 30m-daily build?05:50
KamionMithrandir: 24h05:50
lamontcrontab daily, 24h05:50
lamont0605 british time05:50
debianistKamion : what shall I use in perioriy?05:50
lamontKamion: not worth the effort, I expect05:50
debianistKamion : what shall I use in priority?05:50
Kamiondebianist: normal will do for now05:51
mdzseb128: the new gnome-vfs2 seems to work perfectly05:51
seb128cool :)05:51
debianistP2 ?05:51
Kamiondon't worry about it05:51
Mithrandirpoor buildd, has to get up that early05:51
Kamionif you don't know, choose the defaults05:51
danielsnine minutes ...05:51
lamontMithrandir: that's just so that it's done before Kamion crawls out of bed, you ,now..05:52
mdzseb128: my primary remaining concern with the automounting stuff is how to handle unmounting05:52
lamontMithrandir: as a plus, it's generally before I go to bed...05:52
mdzseb128: the unmount option under the Computer icon is too obscure; I don't think users will find it05:52
Kamionlamont: also before the daily CD image builds crawl out of bed, which IIRC are at the time they are in order to suit fabbione and me ...05:52
pittimdz: I don't think that it is too hard to attempt umount when closing the device window05:53
seb128mdz: any idea of how to do it in a better way ?05:53
mdzpitti: should we mount with the sync option to minimize the damage when they don't unmount?05:53
pittimdz: we already do05:53
pittimdz: however, if they don't umount and plug it in again, the "old" device is still mounted. This might break something05:54
pittimdz: with sync it's annoyingly slow, but that's better than waiting on umount indefinitively05:54
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-251-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu
mdzpitti: if they unplug and replug, it will show up as a different device05:54
pittimdz: when users see that copying lasts long, they will understand05:54
mdzit can't free the old device until it is no longer in use05:55
pittimdz: oh, right05:55
pittimdz: so it actually shouldn't hurt too much on VFAT filesystems05:55
mdzpitti: no; it should be the same as Windows with a floppy05:55
pittimdz: nevertheless, a slightly more obvious umounting would be better05:55
pittimdz: especially since you cannot just take out a CD-ROM if it's mounted :-)05:55
danielsdo we have right-click unmounting (context menu from the icon of whatever it is that's mounted)?05:55
pittimdz: okay, you can, but...05:56
pittidaniels: yes, we have05:56
lamontMithrandir: news on e-b front?05:56
mdzpitti: for FAT filesystems, it should be possible to attempt to unmount _after_ the user disconnects the device05:56
pittidaniels: but, that's still pretty obscure05:56
Mithrandirlamont: seb128 was going to upload it.05:56
mdzpitti: this should work fine on a FAT filesystem which was mounted with sync05:56
lamontok.  just curious05:56
pittimdz: so gvm should intercept that and just umount it if hal reports the umount05:56
mdzpitti: though, on some other type of filesystem, it will probably spew errors and such, but it is already too late to do anything useful05:56
=== dieman perks up
seb128Mithrandir: I've uploaded epiphany some days ago05:57
pittimdz: that's why we should do that consistently05:57
mdzseb128: it would be very nice if it could trigger an unmount when the user closes all active nautilus windows on the volume05:57
pittimdz: we need to unmount cd-roms anyway05:57
mdzseb128: is that something which would be complex to implement?05:57
debianistmdz : can't we work out some auto unmounting scheme?05:57
=== alextreme [~alex@am.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu
pittiumount as soon as lsof does not report anything anymore?05:58
seb128mdz: not sure, nautilus keeps some monitor on files05:58
lamontseb128: epiphany-browser_1.3.8-0ubuntu3 is missing an amd64 build-dep on gcc-3.405:58
seb128 epiphany-browser (1.3.8-0ubuntu3) warty; urgency=low05:58
seb128 .05:58
seb128   * Patch from "Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@debian.org>" to use gcc-3.4 on amd6405:58
seb128     (Warty: #1031).05:58
thompitti: only if you magically automount as soon as someone tries to access it again :-)05:58
seb128lamont: I've applied the patch, dunno for the rest05:58
mdzpitti,debianist: the implementation should be simple, but I am not sure in which daemon it should be placed05:59
Mithrandir*sigh*, did I forget to update the control file there as well?05:59
pittithom: but it is still "used" if the device nautilus window is still open05:59
=== Mithrandir kicks self
=== lamont hands Mithrandir better boots. :-)
mdzok, meeting starting in <1 min06:00
debianistmdz : there should be an unmounting daemon06:00
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:mdz] : SSDS | Ubuntu meeting now | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
pittimdz: 18:00 at my clock, any laudatio from you for the start? :-)06:00
seb128mdz: why not using automount/autofs if we want to do an auto umount ?06:00
debianistthe meeting begins?06:00
mdzseb128: we can look at it, but I think it would be too complex for Warty06:00
Mithrandirseb128: care to add that build-dep and upload?06:01
seb128Mithrandir: ok, I'll do it06:01
debianistthe idea of timeout for unmounting seems rather unattractive having tried such a setup 06:01
debianistusing autofs06:01
pittiIMHO an umount attempt when the Nautilus window is closed is not the worst idea; it's natural06:01
seb128not really06:01
pittibut a warning should be printed if something still uses the device06:01
debianistcan't we attempt unmount when a cdrom eject int is detected or something close?06:01
seb128I don't expect to get my cdrom mounted/unmounted each time I browse the dir06:02
mdzso, first order of business, let's review the few remaining features which we need to nail down as soon as possible to prepare for the preview release06:02
pittiseb128: why not really? the window opens on plugin automatically, it should umount at window close06:02
mdzone of those, we were already discussing: the pmount/gvm integration06:02
mdzI think the last remaining showstopper there is what to do about unmounting06:02
debianistpitti : sounds correct. however, wouldn't you like to get it back notime when need arise?06:02
Kamionit still seems to be an active discussion; perhaps put it on hold until after the meeting?06:03
seb128pitti: because my cdrom spin each tome06:03
danielsmdz: the gimp thing?06:03
seb128pitti: and that's really annoying06:03
mdzdaniels: gimp thing?06:03
danielsmdz: getting the bug number now -- basically, sanitising the first startup06:03
seb128pitti: I want to keep my cd mounted06:03
danielsmdz: aha, #101206:03
mdzKamion: let's see if we can put our heads together and come up with a strategy for it, and then it can go offline06:03
Kamiondaniels: I think that's a bug fix :-)06:03
Kamionmdz: ok06:03
mdzwhat's the natural action for a user to tell the system "I'm finished with this"?06:04
mdzit seems like closing the window is that06:04
pittiI agree06:04
debianistmdz : for cds, i reckon it's eject06:04
mdzbut the problem is that it's impossible to get it back afterward06:04
mdz(from the desktop)06:04
pittiyou have to replug06:04
pittifor cdroms, you can do it from the computer window06:04
mdzand they have already done that once, so they know that will work06:04
Kamionpitti: that may be very difficult06:04
thomwhich is very unintuitive, and will generate *millions* of bug reports06:04
thom"i closed a window, and the cdrom went away!"06:05
pittithe cd-rom doesn't, it's in fstab06:05
pittijust the usb devices06:05
debianistisn't there a cool way to detect the eject button and unmount after it?06:05
danielsand the first thing i'd do if a nautilus window popped up when i inserted a cd would be to close it, most of the time06:05
Kamionpitti: I'm sure PowerMac CD-ROMs aren't the only devices which require software eject, though06:05
seb128mdz: closing the windows, ok ... but what about the browser mode ?06:05
Kamionif you're the type who's annoyed by random windows popping up, you will ...06:05
seb128mdz: I select an another dir in the tree06:05
pittiKamion: ZIP drives do as well06:05
mdzdebianist: yes, but it's a kernel-level thing and can't be implemented in time06:05
thomdebianist: eject umounts for you.06:05
mdzwe need something that we can have for the preview release06:06
Kamiondebianist: what eject button? :)06:06
debianistmdz : eject buttons that will appear on the desktop06:06
debianistKamion : mdz has answered me 06:06
debianistKamion : I meant the eject buttons on the CD rom itself06:06
pittidesktop would be cool. a small icon in the panel, you click on it, it's unmounted06:06
mdzwell, originally, nautilus would cause an icon to appear on the desktop when a new device was mounted06:06
Kamiondebianist: merely observing that not all CD drives have such a button06:06
pittiI think Windows has a similar icon06:06
thommdz: *nod*06:07
mdzbut we disabled that06:07
debianistKamion : right, idea dropped06:07
debianistKamion : :)06:07
debianistdesktop eject icons for every device automounted06:07
thompitti: windows sticks a notification icon in for such things, to let you eject them06:07
mdzthe nice thing about that was that it provided a desktop presence which corresponded exactly to the mount06:07
mdzthe icon appeared when the device was mounted, and the user, whether or not they had any nautilus windows (or any other windows) open, could go there to perform an operation on it06:07
pittithom: never seen it first hand06:07
mdzthe same way that CD eject works06:07
thomand i'm not sure that's  such a bad metaphor for us - you right click, eject, and it umounts and goes away06:07
=== debianist agrees with mdz
thomcan we extend the eject metaphor for usb devices etc?06:08
pittiso, right click on a desktop icon, not an icon in the computer window?06:08
KamionI find that far preferable, but I can't remember why we removed the icons06:08
Mithrandirthom: drag it to trash, like MOS used to do?06:08
=== Mithrandir hides.
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
danielsthom: as long as I don't have my thumbdrives shooting across the room06:08
debianistpitti : yes06:08
mdzthom: we have; there is now an 'unmount device' [jargon warning]  option in the context menu06:08
thomdaniels: ;D06:08
danielsi like the right-click eject/i'm done with this metaphor06:08
debianistnot in the computer window, it would get lost for new peoplel06:08
mdzthom: but the user will never find it06:08
thommdz: if they're using it to eject a cdrom already, why not keep that?06:09
pittithey will if an icon pops up at the desktop06:09
thomand just use it for all hotpluggable stuff06:09
mdzthom: because we've buried it06:09
mdzthom: Mark did not want the icons on the desktop06:09
danielsi'll probably get punched for this, but how about a little eject button sitting, say, in the top-right of the icon that they can click?06:09
debianistthom : you mean they already use it in windows?06:09
pittiMacOS X haves icons appear on the Desktop; I like that06:09
thommdz: disagree. the icons are in the computer. 06:09
daniels(with a small explanatory confirmation dialog to prevent accidental death)06:09
debianistmdz : "Media Manager" window06:09
thomyou go to the computer, select the media, eject it06:09
debianistmdz : a foler or some sort on the desktop06:09
thomi think that's a pretty powerful metaphor06:10
thomand a fairly obvious one06:10
debianistor "Computer"->"Media"06:10
mdzthom: they didn't go to the computer in the first place to access it, and the computer icon did not react when they used the device, and they've never seen this icon under computer before...06:10
mdzdebianist: currently the icons appear under Computer06:10
debianistmdz : k06:10
daniels(is it necessary to have this battle again?)06:10
mdzok, I think we have a rough idea of the issues06:11
=== npmccallum agrees with daniels
mdzlet's take this to the mailing list06:11
mdzso that we can move on06:11
pitti@all: can we sum up the issues and discuss that separately06:11
pittimdz: agreed; who summarizes?06:11
mdzpitti: will you summarize the issues for the mailing list and start the discussion there?06:11
mdzok, thanks06:11
=== debianist thinks desktop icons would make things far easy and intuitive.
mdzmoving on, another feature that needs to be wrapped up is the init script beautification06:11
debianist(reverted back to it from "Computer")06:11
mdznpmccallum: can you give us a brief status update on that?06:11
danielsdebianist: then follow up pitti's upcoming mail to the list, please06:12
mdzhow many packages remain that need to be modified?06:12
npmccallumbasically, the fucntions are in place.  All the packages I know of have been modified.  there are probably others that don't have scripts that I need to be made aware of06:12
mdznpmccallum: all of the packages in desktop, or all in supported?06:12
danielswe could get someone with access to the archive to find every package containing /etc/init.d/.*06:13
Kamiondaniels: don't need archive access, we have Contents-*.gz files on mirrors06:13
Mithrandiras a note, it would be nice if we could remove a lot of the superflous output from random programs.06:13
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-251-236.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu
mdznpmccallum: you should almost be able to install every package in supported at once06:13
danielsKamion: ah, rad06:13
mdzthere will be a few conflicts, like exim/postfix06:13
pittithe hotplug output is just endless; can we trim that somehow?06:13
Mithrandirlike, if fsck only printed the volumes, not the copyright notice.06:14
=== debianist wonders about module failure messages when probing. maybe loose them for the regular user?
npmccallumMithrandir: any output that you see that is superflous is a bug, please file06:14
Mithrandirnpmccallum: will do.06:14
npmccallumpitti: I'm going to drop the kernel log level, its the only way to rid that stuff06:14
mdzdebianist: if a module is being loaded and failing, it probably should not be loaded in the first place, which is a bug06:14
KamionI'm still concerned about some of the error handling; I'd like to have some kind of review effort to make sure all the exit codes and things are right06:14
pittinpmccallum: you could disable it temporarily for hotplug06:14
debianistmdz : noted06:14
npmccallumpitti: that is a good idea as well, I think I'd prefer that06:15
mdzKamion: I agree06:15
npmccallumpitti: I think mdadm also spews a bunch of kernel stuff06:15
Mithrandirnpmccallum: dhclient.06:15
mdzbased on the number of bugs which have been uncovered already, we need to thoroughly regression-test these06:15
pittithese neverending error messages of mdadm should go away06:15
thomdevmapper is the most evil one06:15
Mithrandirthom: what devmapper msg?06:15
mdzthom: that should be gone with the new kernel06:15
pittiyes, devmapper, not mdadm06:15
thommdz: oh, cool06:16
mdzthom,pitti: shame on you for not testing the new kernel :-)06:16
thomi'll check in a bit06:16
pittimdz: Oh, its running, I just did not observe the latest boot06:16
mdzit incorporates the bd-claim patch, which lets evms work properly06:16
npmccallumMithrandir: I'm not sure how to handle dhclient because it actually grabs the terminal so that you can ctrl-c dhcp06:16
thommdz: i'm not an obsessive kernel spew watcher ;-)06:16
pittimdz: powerpc images were only available from this mornign on06:16
mdzwhich was the root of those problems06:16
danielshow difficult is it to take the interface down if miitool says there's no link?06:16
Mithrandirnpmccallum: modify dhcpclient to not spew a lot of what it does?06:16
mdzdaniels: hoary difficult06:17
thomdaniels: miitool lies on some network cards06:17
npmccallumMithrandir: I'll look at it06:17
danielsthom: gar06:17
danielsmdz: point taken06:17
npmccallummdz: we may want to talk about NetworkManager as well on the hoary timeline :)06:17
=== debianist is overwhalmed by the number of packages he didn't know existed, notwithstanding their functionality :)
thomnpmccallum: already on the wiki06:17
mdznpmccallum: it's on the proposed feature goal list on the wiki06:17
thomi even have packages mostly done ;P06:18
mdzso, we need to review and test the init script changes06:18
=== npmccallum proposes to never go away on a long weekend again :)
mdzwho besides Kamion is comfortable with shell nuances and can assist with that?06:18
thommdz: well, i have no bugs, so i might as well :-)06:18
npmccallumPlease also file bugs on anything, I was away this weekend, but I'll be bug squashing a lot this week06:19
pittiI will look into it and contact Kamion if I have some updates06:19
mdzthom, npmccallum: ok, you guys work together to review and test what has been done so far, and make sure that the ongoing work has a minimal chance of new bugs06:19
daniels(as a largely useless aside, i have ndiswrapper packages ready that i'll throw up to people.n-n-y.com tomorrowish)06:19
debianistmdz : assist with what?06:19
mdzdebianist: the init script beautification work06:20
danielsmdz: if we're talking about warty features -- ati's r4xx code drop?06:20
=== thom douses daniels in holy water
debianistmdz : it's output, or the code?06:20
Kamionthe code06:20
npmccallumdebianist: both actually06:20
danielsthom: does this holy water buy me an atheros or whatever wifi card?06:20
mdznpmccallum: I think probably the easiest way to incorporate some peer review would be for you to send your diffs to thom as you go06:21
npmccallummdz, thom: np06:21
pittinpmccallum: can you cc me as well, please?06:21
thomsounds like a plan06:21
npmccallumpitti: sure06:21
Kamionnpmccallum: I think reviewing the code is most important at the moment, to get the bugs squashed as early as possible; we can tweak the output after preview release06:21
mdznpmccallum: generating diffs for the ones which are already done might be trickier; where you still have a copy of the old package, you can use debdiff06:21
mdzKamion: right06:21
mdzok, moving on06:22
pitticups admin web interface?06:22
mdzthe next feature-ish thing that we're trying to wrap up is the kernel06:22
pittithe new prism2_usb drivers lack userspace support06:22
mdzthis actually seems to be in rather good shape, but it is crucial that everyone start using it ASAP06:22
debianistmdz : I can overview it, see what can be left out, suggest things etc. I'd like to do it however with supervision by someone more experienced in ubuntu than me :) 06:22
mdzpitti: what kind of userspace support do they need?06:23
thommdz: is there any chance we can get acpi_ibm and a recent ACPI drop? :-)06:23
mdznpmccallum: which?06:23
pittilinux-wlan-ng package, basically06:23
thompitti: this is the lack of wlan-ng? right06:23
pittimdz: iwconfig does not work with it, you need wlanctl-ng06:23
mdzthom: it's possible; let's discuss it on the list and CC herbert06:23
debianistmdz : just make sure I don't do horroble mistakes..;)06:23
danielsmdz: noting that drivers like prism54 and acx100 lack firmware, is it worth making a last-minute request to the manufacturers for a distribution license and shipping them in the non-free modules?06:24
mdzpitti: is the version in universe sufficient?06:24
pittiI'm using it, it works06:24
pittisince we don't have autosetup for these things anyway, we can as well leave it in universe06:24
mdzit doesn't look too scary; we could promote it to Supported06:24
mdzof course, those cards won't work in d-i, right?06:24
pittiI suppose06:24
pittithe modules is loaded automatically, but it's not set up06:24
Kamionmdz: well, I made an attempt to get firmware loading support going, but I doubt that it works06:25
mdzKamion: apart from the firmware issues, is there a wlanctl-ng udeb?06:25
mdzI don't see one06:25
mdzKamion: I can look at firmware support with you; I have hardware I can test with06:25
mdzthat shouldn't be too hard to get working06:25
Kamiongood; the main tricky bit is that d-i doesn't use real hotplug, and the hotplug substitute that it uses is really just for PCMCIA06:26
KamionI expect some interesting issues in hw-detect06:26
mdzit looks like we'll be using the existing linux-kernel-di infrastructure, since building the udebs from linux-source is going to be too complicated for our timeline06:26
mdzI don't think that's a big deal; the primary concern there for Warty is that when we do a security update, we don't need to update N packages, but only one06:26
mdzgenerally, security issues aren't significant in the installer environment, so that should be a special case06:27
mdzlocal root vulnerabilities are not really a big deal when there is only one user, on the console, and they are root :-)06:27
KamionI think the installer updates can be done on a best-effort basis; I agree they don't seem crucial usually06:27
mdzany other questions or concerns about the kernel?06:28
mdzdid I mention it needs MORE TESTING? ;-)06:28
=== dieman frowns at our network issues.
mdzdieman: network issues?06:28
dieman(too busy to pay attenton to the meeting)06:28
npmccallummdz: I had a wierd md bug after I installed the new kernel06:28
diemanmdz: first day of classes, network explodes.06:28
npmccallummdz: I'll file something06:29
mdznpmccallum: ok, once it's filed, send an email to Herbert; he doesn't have a bugzilla account06:29
debianistkernel updates were from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8?06:29
mdznpmccallum: Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>06:29
pittiCan everybody please test USB devices with the new kernel? My USB stick's partitions are not discovered sometimes06:29
mdzpitti: I had a problem on my desktop going from 2.6.7 to 2.6.806:29
debianistpitti : I will06:29
mdzall of my USB devices quit working, "device not accepting new address"06:30
danielsmdz: can we please get some xfs love into the kernel? whether that's just ripping fs/xfs out of 2.6.9-rc1-mm1 (which wfm) or whatever; i'd just like to be able to use my system for an hour without an oops that sends most of my processes into D06:30
pittiwhen I stick it in, it sometimes says "unknown partition table"06:30
mdzthe problem turned out to be that I was specifying acpi=off on the command line06:30
mdzand re-enabling ACPI fixed it up06:30
danielsmdz: (that's separate from the bd-claim issue)06:30
pittimdz: I don't think that is a kernel bug, more a firmware bug06:30
mdzpreviously, it had had problems _with_ acpi, and now it has different problems _without_ it :-)06:30
mdzdaniels: file bug, mail Herbert06:30
danielspitti: 2.6.9-rc1-mm1 works fine with usb bluetooth, usb mass storage (iriver, media reader, digicam, notebook cradle thingy), keyboard/mouse, et al06:31
danielspitti: but that's not our kernel, so ymmv06:31
danielsmdz: will do06:31
pittidaniels: I'll try06:31
mdzok, moving on06:31
pittidaniels: but this happened also with 2.6.706:31
=== tvon|x31 [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
mdzseb128: what remains for the desktop UI changes?06:31
seb128nothing AFAIK06:31
mdzseb128: ok, so Mark's requirements are met for Warty?06:32
=== mako_ [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu
mdzseb128: nothing else is unresolved there?06:32
seb128mdz: oh, not sure about the trash applet06:32
debianistthe installer daily ships with ?06:32
seb128Jeff wanted to removed it (me too)06:32
seb128not sure about Mark06:32
mdzMark wants it in06:33
seb128it's not translated and has some issues, but it's usuable06:33
tvon|x31does anyone use the trash applet?06:33
mdzdebianist: yes, it should06:33
seb128mdz: I'll add it again to the default config06:33
pittiI find two trash icons confusing06:33
pittione at the desktop, one in the lower panel06:34
mdzseb128: Mark said the issues were cosmetic; is that true?  I can live with it as long as it doesn't crash06:34
seb128mdz: cosmetic and translations missing yes06:34
mdzpitti: the idea was for the desktop trash icon to disappear06:34
debianistmdz : 4.10 is current enough?06:34
tvon|x31also sucks to miss the trash applet and hit the panel06:34
mdzdebianist: everything is 4.10 :-)06:34
tvon|x31esp when 'trashing' images06:34
seb128but that's not a big problem, no need of text to drag stuff here and open it by clicking06:34
mdzdebianist: daily/2004090706:34
debianistmdz : :)06:34
mdztvon|x31: eek06:34
tvon|x31and its small and hard to see, so just about any icon obscures it when you are trying to drop into it06:34
debianistmdz : what about the current directory there?06:35
mdzI have to admit that I don't really use nautilus, so I haven't played with the trash applet much06:35
debianistmdz : is it falsy?06:35
seb128mdz: the current menu layout is ok for everybody ? Should be (I've changed it according to Jeff's mail 2 days ago), but I just want to check06:35
pittiin fact I just discovered the smallish icon in the panel just now06:35
mdzdebianist: current should be a symlink to 2004090706:35
Kamiondebianist: the 20040907 daily is broken, please leave it for a bit06:36
debianistKamion : k06:36
tvon|x31the 'logout' stuff at the bottom of the computer menu is a big improvement06:36
danielsthe computer menu strikes me as feeling bloated now06:37
seb128mdz: perhaps some branding missing (in evolution ?) .. Jeff was supposed to check06:37
mdzdaniels: it is a bit heavy; but it's not a showstopper06:37
npmccallumseb128: the menu looks great06:37
danielswhereas the applications menu looks a little too trimmed-down06:37
mdzseb128: is there a bug filed?06:37
seb128npmccallum: thanks06:37
danielsmdz: not at all, just a random peanut-gallery comment06:37
tvon|x31daniels: ya think? I like it small like that06:37
danielsi do really like run application in applications tho06:38
npmccallumAre we planning on removing the debian branding on the openoffice.org splash screens?06:38
seb128mdz: no06:38
Kamionbe careful about openoffice.org, they have some interesting branding rules06:38
Kamioncheck their web site06:38
seb128npmccallum: Jeff was supposed to check all the branding stuff and let we know ...06:38
npmccallumseb128: ok, I just noticed it last night, just wanted to make sure it was brought up06:38
mdzseb128,npmccallum: please file bugs about that stuff so it isn't forgotten06:39
mdzso, we need to do a security review of Warty06:39
npmccallumdo @canonical.com email addresses work in bugzilla yet?06:39
mdzsince we snapshotted unstable, and Debian doesn't have a rigorous procedure for tracking security issues in unstable, we need to make sure we don't have any known security issues06:40
pittimdz: what's still missing, security-wise?06:40
justdavenpmccallum: nobody's told me they do yet.06:40
mdzpitti: that :-)06:40
lamontmdz: how much is left06:40
mdzlamont: everything that wasn't already done for the sarge security review06:40
justdaveelmo / thom: what's the status on that?06:40
thomchinstrap% nc fiordland 2506:40
thomfiordland.warthogs.hbd.com []  25 (smtp) : No route to host06:40
mdzwe need to check that we have all of the things fixed which were discovered in the sarge security review06:40
thomheres a clue06:40
elmoI'll try and fix that tonight06:40
justdavethat probably means they still don't. :)06:40
pittimdz: ah; I will check that06:40
mdzpitti: ok, you will take responsibility for this?06:41
pittimdz: I will06:41
mdzpitti: we also need to review Debian DSAs independently06:41
mdzpitti: and to the extent possible, CVEs06:41
Kamionmight want to hit joeyh up for the script he used to start automating that06:41
pittimdz: I will dig though the bugtraq archives06:42
mdzKamion: we may not even have anything outstanding from his list, but we'll see06:42
Kamionsure, but I think the script was more generic06:42
mdzpitti: this seems like a huge project; there are many sources of this information and it is difficult to cross-reference against the packages included in Warty06:42
Kamiondon't remember the details, there was mail on debian-release about it06:42
mdzthe end result was that once he had the information about which version had the fix, he could re-run it periodically and see if that version was incorporated into sarge06:43
pittimdz: I welcome other people to help me :-)06:43
mdzpitti: let's talk after the meeting about how to go about it06:43
pittiif anybody is willing to help, I can manage the whole issue06:43
lamontpitti: let me know what you want me doing.06:43
pittimdz: agreed06:43
mdzlamont: thanks06:43
mdzit's going to be a lot of research, and should parallelize well06:44
pittilamont: thanks, I will write a mail on ubuntu06:44
dokopitti: helping hand from me as well06:44
mdzyou can each take a  year's worth of CVE at a time or something06:44
debianistpitti : me also :)06:44
mdz[Clint] : are you here?06:44
mdzI think I forgot to CC him on the meeting announcement06:44
mdzanyway, [Clint]  has done woody->warty upgrade testing for us, and there seem to be only minor issues remaining06:45
mdzinapporpriate debconf questions, etc.06:45
pittimdz: plugdev membership comes to my mind06:45
thomand sudo 06:45
mdzpitti: yes, that is part of the larger question about providing the ubuntu desktop experience on upgrade06:45
mdzmore so than a functional problem of the upgrade06:45
pittiright, without sudo all gnome admin stuff won't work06:46
Kamionpartly that's an artifact of doing so much in base-config06:46
mdzpitti: well, they also won't have any of that installed :-)06:46
Kamionwhich in turn is an artifact of debconf being emphatically not a registry ... I wonder how much 'base-config new' after upgrade clears up06:46
mdzso there is a separate potential project to create a procedure and/or tool which will attempt to install the whole desktop setup06:46
mdzwhich would include the group memberships, standard set of applications (desktop task), etc.06:47
Kamionthat sounds extremely close to base-config06:47
Mithrandirit might very well run base-config06:47
mdzit could very well06:47
debianistpitti : sudo is base right?06:47
mdzI was thinking that whatever form it took, it wouldn't require significant changes to stuff which is in Warty, and would be an external thing06:48
pittidebianist: admim06:48
mdzbut if it actually used base-config, it might require changing base-config, ugh06:48
debianistpitti : hmmm..06:48
pittidebianist: admin and optional06:48
debianistneed to change that than06:48
Kamionpitti: it's in warty base06:48
mdzwhich constrains it with regard to our release deadlines06:48
Mithrandirmdz: b-c + some upgrade-only stuff?06:48
mdzMithrandir: my concern is that if it is going to be based on base-config, those base-config changes need to go into the release06:49
Kamionmdz: I don't think that's a big deal myself06:49
mdzanyway, let's take that offline for the meeting06:49
mdznext agenda item is the restricted component06:50
mdzwhich exists now, and has a package in it06:50
Mithrandirrestricted =~ non-free?06:50
mdzMithrandir: restricted <proper subset> non-free06:50
pittiwhich package? nvidia?06:50
mdzpitti: linux-non-free-modules (kernel stuff)06:50
mdzwhat we need to decide here is what we should add to it for the release06:51
mdzati and nvidia drivers come to mind06:51
danielsnvidia +106:51
danielsfglrx -106:51
Mithrandirfirmware stuff?06:51
pittidaniels: agreed06:51
npmccallumdaniels: why no fglrx?06:51
danielsati drivers are too much of a pain in the arse to do configuration with; it took me a good hour or so06:51
mdzMithrandir: we agreed in Oxford that firmware stuff was OK for main06:51
mdzMithrandir: which is one of the differences between debian non-free and warty restricted06:51
Mithrandirmdz: ok, I didn't pay attention or wasn't present, then.06:51
pittitg3 firmware would be good06:51
pittiI've seen this card quite often06:52
danielsif anyone's smart enough to configure fglrx, then they don't need our hand-holding with the module; as much as i think it's essential, we just can't configure it near meaningfully enough out of the box to justify inclusion imo06:52
mdzfirmware should be packaged with the kernel06:52
mdzwe already have ipw firmware and atmel firmware in the linux-source package06:52
mdzif there's additional firmware we need which is not included in kernel.org kernels, mail herbert06:52
mdzpitti: will you take care of tg3?06:52
npmccallumdaniels: I can buy that, especially because we support ati 2d fairly well06:52
Mithrandirisl3890 would be nice, if we can get permission to distribute it.06:52
mdzI have a tg3 card and it seems to work fine without firmware06:52
pittimdz: I cannot test it currently06:52
thomdaniels: there are existing debian packages for fglrx06:52
Mithrandirmdz: but not at full speed.06:52
thomand they work fine06:52
dokomdz: does this include the firmware for isdn hardware as well=06:52
mdzMithrandir: I only have a 100mbit switch06:53
npmccallumwhat is happening with madwifi?06:53
danielsnpmccallum: (except without 2d support for the current line of cards)06:53
mdznpmccallum: madwifi is in linux-non-free-modules, as I said above06:53
pittimdz: if it works at 100mbps, it's probably okay, I think06:53
Kamiondebian-cd needs several updates to cope with restricted; I'm looking through those now06:53
Mithrandirmdz: what about externally loaded firmware?06:53
npmccallummdz: sorry, missed it06:53
danielsthom: sure they do, if you know how to configure it right. i just think it's too much of a configuration nightmare to bother cutifying the packaging06:53
mdzMithrandir: all firmware gets included in the kernel package, so that it is matched to a specific version of the driver06:53
mdzMithrandir: it gets installed in /usr/lib/hotplug and loaded by the firmware loader, but it's part of the kernel source package06:53
Mithrandirmdz: ok.06:54
mdzI think this is the sensible approach06:54
mdzKamion: ok06:54
Mithrandirsounds fine with me.06:54
mdzso, anyone who has firmware which is redistributable, send me information about it and a URL06:54
mdz(firmware for which the driver is already in the kernel)06:54
mdzfor drivers which are non-free, such as madwifi, nvidia-kernel, etc., that stuff will go in linux-restricted-modules06:55
mdzwhich is what linux-non-free-modules is about to be renamed to06:55
mdzcurrently it has madwifi in it, and fabbione is going to add the nvidia-kernel bits06:55
mdzdaniels: do the ati drivers require kernel bits?06:55
danielsmdz: yes06:55
mdzdaniels: currently herbert is working on linux-restricted-modules, then he will send it to fabbione to do nvidia, then he can send it to you for ati06:56
mdzdaniels: send an email to fabio to let him know you want it next06:56
mdzKamion: what shall we do about a udeb for l-r-m?06:56
mdzKamion: pick it apart in linux-kernel-di?06:57
debianisti knwo that might be offtopic for now, but does a test install on a thin client machine with flash drive has benefit for ubuntu ?06:57
mdzdebianist: sure, anything and everything06:57
debianistmdz :  k06:57
mdzdaniels: what about the X portion of the ati driver?06:57
Kamionmdz: that would produce essentially restricted udebs, but in main06:58
mdzdaniels: that needs to be packaged for restricted06:58
debianistthe nvidia driver would be installed outofthebox as a installation goal?06:58
Kamionmdz: I was thinking a separate kernel-wedge-using thing06:58
danielsmdz: yes, yes it does06:58
danielsmdz: do you want me to do ati?06:58
[Clint] mdz: i'm vaguely here06:58
mdzKamion: hmm, yes, that would mean linux-kernel-di would build-dep on the restricted modules, yuck06:58
mdz[Clint] : we were just talking about the upgrade tool; let's discuss it on the sounder list later?06:58
Kamionmdz: BTW, I do have another idea for cutting down the udeb problem; we can reunify linux-kernel-di-*06:58
danielsmdz: (my concerns, as stated above, were just that anyone capable of configuring it is more than capable of building it on their own, and exposing it to the world implies that it won't be quite so difficult)06:58
mdz[Clint] : (you are subscribed to the sounder list, right?)06:59
mdzKamion: ooh, that sounds nice06:59
[Clint] mdz: yup; i can't really spare my full attention atm06:59
Kamionmdz: it might run into apt limits though, I'm sure you're familiar with that problem ...06:59
mdzdaniels: what are the issues with configuratin?06:59
danielsmdz: it's a *pain*06:59
mdzKamion: I think I bumped those limits high enough in current apt, but it's easy enough to bump them again if necessary06:59
thommdz: there's a crazy, horrible script that munges your X config06:59
Kamionmdz: that's not the issue, think woody->warty upgrades ...07:00
danielsmdz: especially when tooling around with agpgart settings, it's often easy to get lost in myriad tweaks that you need to do07:00
danielsyeah, fglrx-config is total crack also07:00
mdzKamion: woody->warty upgrades require an apt pre-upgrade to work well anyway07:00
Kamion(which include deb-src)07:00
dokothom: not even a script, it's a binary to obfuscate things ...07:00
Kamionmdz: the point is it can get hard to even apt-get update07:00
mdzdaniels, thom: so is it unsupportable crap?07:00
debianistKamion : woody -> warty upgrades? we want that?07:00
danielsnot least because it stomps all over your x config, and puts in about twenty thousand commented-out options07:00
thommdz: i think that's a yes07:00
Kamiondebianist: er, yeah, that's why we had that long discussion above about an upgrade tool07:00
danielsmdz: as much as we need 2d and 3d, fglrx just isn't it07:00
mdzKamion: we'll drown under that bridge when we come to it, I guess :-)07:01
daniels(r4xx 2d and 3d, r3xx 3d)07:01
debianistKamion : sarge -> warty looked more reasonable :)07:01
thomdaniels: when does the r4xx drop happen?07:01
mdzok, let's drop fglrx07:01
danielsthom: er, the patch has already been merged into xorg about a fortnight ago07:01
mdzI believe fabbione plans to package the nvidia binary driver for restricted07:01
lamontmdz: burn that bridge when we drive off of it.07:01
thomdaniels: ah07:02
mdzare there any other binary-only non-firmware blobs that should be packaged for restricted?07:02
danielsthom: maybe even a month now07:02
mdznothing else?  so far, we have madwifi and the nvidia graphics drivers07:03
debianistmdz : what about other peripherals, digi cams, firewire xfer thingies07:03
dokowhat is a blob in this context07:03
danielsif it doesn't happen for warty, i might do a radeon-driver-r4xx diversion crack attack on people.n-n-y.com07:03
mdzdebianist: yes, what about them? :-)  are there any binary-only drivers that you need for such hardware?07:03
mdzdoko: object code07:04
pittijdub told us about some webcams07:04
danielspwcx, iirc07:04
mdzpitti: I think the one he was talking about was pwcx07:04
mdzand that driver was discontinued07:04
dokoyes, then the avm binary capi library07:04
mdzdoko: ok, will you package it?07:04
pittiwasn't there a pwc also?07:04
mdzpitti: pwc is in the kernel, and free07:04
=== pitti tries to remember
mdzpwcx implemented extended features of the same devices07:05
Mithrandirmdz: pwc got removed with 2.6.8, didn't it?  Or rather, is in 2.6.9 somewehere?07:05
dokomdz: ok, for linux-restricted as a module?07:05
mdzMithrandir: it did? oh07:05
mdzdoko: is it kernel or userland?07:05
Mithrandirmdz: according to lwn.net, at least,  iirc07:05
lamontI thought it was that pwc removed the hooks that pcwx needed07:05
dokomdz: kernel07:05
mdzdoko: ok, then it goes in linux-restricted-modules07:05
mdzdoko: herbert is working on it now, then fabio, then daniel07:05
mdzscratch daniel, we dropped ati07:05
mdzdoko: so you should get linux-restricted-modules after fabio07:06
debianistmdz : creative NOMAD JukeBox player, Webcam07:06
dokomdz: fine, hope I can manage it ...07:06
mdzdoko: send email to fabio asking him to pass the packages to you after he has added the nvidia driver07:06
mdzdoko: if you have trouble, mail herbert07:06
mdzhopefully it should be clear from the examples07:06
mdzif not, a little documentation would be nice07:06
mdzdebianist: do you have URLs and information about the drivers?07:07
mdzdebianist: if so, please send them to me via email (description of the device, URL for the driver, any other information about it you may have)07:07
dokowhat about inclusion of the isdnutils-base, libcapi20-3 and isdnactivecards in desktop?07:07
mdzisn't isdnutils already in base?07:08
debianistmdz : k, i'll have to recollect those, it's been long time since I tampared with it ;)07:08
mdzhmm, it's in supported07:08
mdzdoko: what is isdnactivecards?07:08
mdzdebianist: are these drivers that you personally use?07:08
mdzdebianist: (and can help us to test)?07:08
mdzdoko: isdnutils-base sounds like it should go in base07:09
debianistmdz : hmmm seems there are open source "replacments" for most of them now, I will try to work out those ones than it would releive us from adding it 07:09
dokoisdnactivecards is the package to handle isdn cards using the capi interface, packaged together with firmware for active isdn cards (active: own processor on the card). maybe I should split that into to capituils and activecards.07:09
debianistmdz : to restricted , that is07:09
mdzdoko: is libcapi20-3 useful on its own?07:10
mdzdoko: it does not seem to be depended on by either of the other packages07:10
dokoit's needed by the capi utilities in isdnactivecards.07:11
mdzdebianist: ok, let me know via email if there is anything that you feel is missing that we could add to the restricted module package07:11
mdzdoko: why does it not depend on it?07:11
debianistmdz : ofcourse! np07:12
dokomdz: you found a bug.07:12
tvon|x31anyone using 'tpb' for thinkpads?07:12
thomtvon|x31: i have, but it's a criminally ugly hack07:13
dokotvon|x31: I couldn't get it working yesterday.07:13
mdzI'm going to add isdnutils-base to BaseSeed; Kamion, can you update debootstrap?07:13
MithrandirHcE: thinkpad buttons07:13
Kamionmdz: sure07:13
HcEwhich "extra" buttons?07:13
MithrandirHcE: uses some osd thingy to make volume changing and such look fancy07:13
HcEthe "Access IBM" button?07:13
MithrandirHcE: I can show you tomorrow.07:14
tvon|x31volume controle usually...there are some others07:14
Mithrandirif you remind me07:14
tvon|x31yes, access ibm as well07:14
=== tvon|x31 just uses volume control
HcEvolume buttons work here without tpb07:14
mdzdoko: what about ipppd and the other binary packages?07:14
mdzdoko: what is the minimum needed for ISDN networking, which should go in base?07:14
tvon|x31tpb uses xosd to display the volume07:14
thomyou don't need it for any of the buttons - it just prettifies the display07:14
danielsmdz: oh, while we're on this, could we please seed bpalogin in if it isn't already?07:14
thomand it's an evil hack, reading stuff out of /dev/kmem or something iirc07:15
dokomdz: I prepare that list offline, ipppd is needed as well.07:15
mdzdoko: ok07:15
MithrandirHcE: work, yes.  But does it show it onscreen?07:15
danielsmdz: it's dfsg-free, it's a custom login client for australia's largest cable modem network (and dsl, too), and has been picked up by a few others07:15
mdzKamion: let's hold off until we've decided on the final list07:15
HcEMithrandir: I said they work ;)07:15
tvon|x31I'd kinda like to rewrite it, using gnome-osd or something07:15
mdzdaniels: supported?07:15
Kamionmdz: I'll just remove pppoe for this release then07:15
danielsthom: yeah, we shouldn't ship anything that just randomly maps shit out of /dev/kmem ;)07:15
mdzKamion: ok07:15
danielsmdz: in the warty sense, or the upstream sense?07:15
SteveAI have totem-xine  It crashes on start.07:16
mdzdaniels: they are very closely related :-)07:16
Mithrandirdaniels: it doesn't use kmem, it uses some other device.07:16
danielsmdz: heh07:16
mdzSteveA: ubuntu team meeting is in progress07:16
lamontSteveA:  I have that version, runs fine here..07:16
mdzdaniels: is it supportable?07:16
debianistare we already supporting dell inspiron laptops?07:16
danielsmdz: well-supported upstream, would be nice to have in shipseed at least as you kind of need it to get online here07:16
mdzdaniels: if so, it can go in supported07:16
SteveAmdz: sorry -- figured that would be on ubuntu-meeting07:16
danielsmdz: yes07:16
debianistincluding Alps touchpad module / driver etc?07:16
mdzSteveA: long story :-)07:16
danielsdebianist: aieee, alps07:17
danielsdebianist: i don't know if that still needs a kernel patch or not, but last i saw, it did07:17
debianistdaniels : huh?07:17
danielsthe userspace support is all there tho07:17
danielsdebianist: last i saw, the kernel needed a patch to meaningfully talk to alps touchpads07:17
debianistdaniels : i used a modconf insertion, when it still worked :)07:17
debianistdaniels : it has a kernel module07:18
danielsdebianist: so it works with current warty kernels? what did you have to insert?07:18
mdzdaniels: ok, I'll add it to supported and ship07:18
danielsdebianist: yeah, but i'm not sure if that's in the mainline kernel yet07:18
danielsmdz: thanks dude07:18
debianistdaniels : i'd test that on the warty. havn't yet done so...07:18
danielsdebianist: which kernel were you using?07:18
debianistdaniels : it evens works with currentl on the sid on the inspiron07:19
pittican we sort out this specific things out of the meeting?07:19
mdzKamion: a quick update on the installer is the last item on my agenda07:20
Kamiontoday's daily was broken, that's fixed07:20
mdzthe two specific issues I wanted to talk about were the apt-setup stuff for restricted and universe, and archive-copier07:20
Kamionapt-setup has been fabbione's baby; it seems to be working on the install I just did07:21
KamionI have commented-out lines in sources.list for main+restricted and for main+restricted+universe07:21
mdzso those changes will be in sounder 8?07:21
Kamionarchive-copier is my current final headache for sounder 807:21
KamionI've almost got the integration there to make the CD totally unnecessary after the first reboot, but am working through bugs07:22
mdzarchive-copier itself, or are you working out the apt-config-in-prebaseconfig bits?07:22
Kamionthe latter07:22
Kamionarchive-copier itself has been working well for a while now07:22
mdzdo you think sounder 8 will see the light today?07:22
mdzyes, it worked fine for me07:22
Mithrandirmdz: how is the amd64 installer ATM?07:22
Kamionif I can't get this to work I'll punt it07:22
Kamion(like, within the next hour or so)07:22
mdzMithrandir: today's daily was broken, so I haven't tried it07:23
mdzI'll test sounder 807:23
mdzKamion: in fact, if it's ok with you, I'd like to test a sounder 8 candidate before you bless it07:23
Kamionmdz: sure07:23
MithrandirI'm also interested in that07:23
mdzit'd be excellent to have a sounder 8 which installed on all arches07:23
Kamionany other installer issues on people's minds?07:23
=== lamont would love to test it, but dare not be critical path... damn bandwidth
Kamionnothing much else comes to mind here07:24
mdzthat's all I had on my list.  anything interesting in bugzilla?07:24
npmccallumKamion: the installer is looking great07:24
Kamionthere are a couple of debconf priority issues which have come up in sounder reports07:24
KamionWEP keys in netcfg is one of them07:24
Kamionthat's currently a priority high question07:24
debianistKamion : the partitioner bug. 07:24
mdzKamion: is it just a matter of increasing the priority, or is it trickier than that?07:25
mdzwhat partitioner bug?07:25
Kamiondebianist: yep, that's another open issue07:25
Kamionmdz: resizing ext3 not working; may be a parted issue, haven't diagnosed it yet07:25
mdzhmm, haven't tested that07:25
Kamionmdz: increasing the priority would fix it, but may incur Mark's wrath at an additional question :-)07:25
mdzKamion: it would only be asked if it couldn't associate without one, no?07:25
Kamionmdz: I think it's asked regardless, but wouldn't swear to it07:26
mdzah, I thought there was some fallback there, where it would try it with no configuration, and if that didn't work, fall back to asking for the essid07:27
debianistKamion : also, the fact d-i advances to installation although no root filesystem has been setup. Maybe block the next stage with a flag untill a partition is created?07:27
mdzasking for the wep key at the same time sounds like a minimum of evil07:27
Kamionthere are also some CD-ROM issues on my bug list that I'm not sure how to fix, and may be hardware specific07:27
Kamionoh, and all the fstab stuff; I need somebody to tell me the currently-approved state of play on that07:28
Kamionpreferably in the bug so I remember07:28
mdzKamion: is the question which devices should be added to fstab?07:28
pittiKamion: regarding CD-ROM entries?07:28
Kamionmdz: yes07:29
Kamionpitti: and floppies07:29
pittiKamion: we should leave them in fstab by now; floppies and CD-ROMs cannot be mounted by pmount currently07:29
mdzsomeone posted to the sounder list saying that their SCSI CD-ROM wasn't added07:29
mdzthe current behaviour is fine for my systems07:30
Kamionbug #104007:30
pittiKamion: we could change pmount policy for that, but it's a bit late I think07:30
pittiKamion: in addition, it is nice if the CD-ROM appears in the computer window even if no CD is present07:30
debianistadd those to fstab,07:30
debianistleave GNOME handle the mounts07:30
Kamionplease, guys, in the bug07:30
mdzagreed, post your comments to #104007:30
KamionI don't want a discussion, I just want the current approved state :-)07:30
Kamiona discussion will render me more confused, since I haven't followed all of this07:31
mdzok, does anyone else have anything they need to discuss before we close the meeting?07:31
pittican we agree how to disable the cups admin interface?07:31
dokoplanning the release party might be a bit early ;)07:31
mdzcan we replace the HTML with some explanatory text?07:31
pittithe error page? should be possible07:31
Mithrandirfor the next meeting, I would very much like to have a list of items to go through beforehand; it's been a bit unstructured.07:31
pittibut at that time, the user already entered his root password07:31
mdzthe page you get at /admin07:31
debianistmdz : how many language checked from d-i ?07:32
pittimdz: you can get there from everywhere07:32
debianistmdz : how many language checked for d-i ?07:32
mdzMithrandir: oh, I think I skipped over amd64 status07:32
mdzMithrandir: what remains on your todo list?  openoffice.org?07:32
mdzpitti: we should disable the authentication and show a placeholder page, ideally07:32
Mithrandirmdz: OOo, some mozilla stuff is still not fixed (thunderbird at least, epiphany was broken because I gave seb a broken patch)07:32
mdzwhich tells them where to find gnome-cups-manager07:32
debianistmdz : never mind that. I need to check this problem on real hardware also07:33
pittimdz: you cannot disable the authentication07:33
pittimdz: but I can change the web pages not to refer to /admin any more07:33
mdzMithrandir: please file bugs in bugzilla so that I can keep up easily07:33
MithrandirI need to run through the installer a few times and make sure it's works well, but apart from that, amd64 is in good shape.07:33
mdzpitti: I thought the problem was that users were accustomed to going to http://localhost:6031/admin or whatever07:33
pittimdz: we cannot do anything about that07:33
pittimdz: we need this interface because gnome-cups-manager uses the CGI as well07:33
pittimdz: (anything apart from rewriting half of cups)07:34
pittimdz: okay, I will change the error page and remove the admin links. 07:34
mdzpitti: but gnome-cups-manager does not care what text is displayed on the page, does it?07:34
pittimdz: I think so07:35
mdzpitti: ok, that sounds reasonable07:35
Mithrandirmdz: ok, I'll file bugs and grab them myself?07:35
mdzpitti: if the user at least gets a reasonable error when their password is rejected, that is enough for Warty07:35
mdzMithrandir: yes, you can assign them to yourself when opening them07:35
pittiI still have an open issue: how to efficiently handle the remaining translations?07:35
mdzMithrandir: it's just easier for me to see the status at a glance that way07:35
mdzpitti: translations of what?07:35
pittiis there a better way than to upload a new package for every translation?07:36
pittimdz: translations of programs07:36
pittimdz: gksudo still talks english to me07:36
pittimdz: so does gnome-cups-admin07:36
pittiand so on...07:36
mdzif the problem is that some programs are not fully translated yet, that is a Hoary problem07:36
debianistpitti : what language do you need it ?07:36
pittidebianist: Myself I'm fine with English, but I can do the German translations07:37
pittidebianist: if I need your's, I will come back to you :-)07:37
debianistpitti : k :) thanks for that07:37
mdzpitti: we cannot afford to spend your time on it right now; we can maybe revisit it after preview07:37
pittimdz: okay, so we defer that until we have Rosetta?07:37
mdzpitti: please file bugs07:38
mdz(severity minor)07:38
pittiwill do.07:38
mdzok, anything else?07:38
mdztrying to keep it under 2 hours here :-)07:38
thomquick, someone filibuster for 20 minutes07:39
thomi'm sure we can do it07:39
mdzI'll send out an email with the deliverables I've collected07:39
debianistmdz : yeah, some of us are dead hungry :))07:39
mdzok, we're done07:39
mdzthanks, everyone07:39
danielsor dead tired07:39
debianistthanks mdz07:39
daniels'night all07:39
pittithanks, Matt07:39
pittidaniels: sleep well07:39
thomdaniels: night kiddo07:40
Oskuronite little daniel07:40
Mithrandirdaniels: see you around07:40
debianistbye all07:40
debianist(that are going to sleep)07:40
pittiso where's the buffet? :-)07:40
debianistor leaving07:40
lamontthere's a buffet?07:41
pittilamont: don't tell me there isn't!07:41
debianistI don't reckon there's too much to eat here currently, but some other folks went shopping. I hope there'd be something good for eating , although I'd rather order a pizza07:41
lamontummmm... pizza......07:43
debianistyes. to damn shame havn't got a nickel to spare this month, maybe next one :)07:43
debianistKamion : a new image is ready and fixed?07:44
Kamiondebianist: no07:44
debianistKamion : you said it was fixed on the meeting, or was it me helusinating?07:45
Kamiondebianist: fixed in the archive07:45
Kamionplease go have a pizza or something :)07:45
dokokamion: for a new installer, is there anything smaller to download than the whole warty iso?07:45
debianistKamion : when would an image be ready?07:45
debianistKamion : just though of letting it rsync while I eat :) sorry, not meant to nag you07:46
Kamiondoko: rsync?07:46
Kamiondebianist: I don't know.07:47
Kamionasking me every five minutes will just slow it down :)07:47
debianisthint taken.07:47
dokokamion: don't have an old archive here :(07:47
lamont-ENOSODA.  panic07:48
Kamiondoko: there's also netboot ... it's in /dists/warty/main/{,daily-}installer-$ARCH/netboot/ or thereabouts07:48
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dokokamion: ok, I'll look at it.07:48
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Kamionaha, found my bug07:52
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mdz * Starting PCMCIA services...                                           [fail] 08:06
mdzhas anyone else seen that?08:06
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elmokamion: ubuntu9's in for all arches, fyi08:09
Kamionelmo: woo, thanks08:09
npmccallummdz: on just a normal boot?08:09
mdznpmccallum: on an upgrade08:09
mdzPreparing to replace pcmcia-cs 3.2.5-7ubuntu3 (using .../pcmcia-cs_3.2.5-7ubuntu4_powerpc.deb) ...08:10
mdzUnpacking replacement pcmcia-cs ...08:10
mdzSetting up pcmcia-cs (3.2.5-7ubuntu4) ...08:10
mdz * Starting PCMCIA services...                                           [fail] 08:10
npmccallummdz: did it fail to bring down the interface?08:10
mdzI didn't see a "Stopping" message08:10
npmccallummdz: wierd08:11
mdznever mind08:11
mdzI was not logged into the system I thought I was08:11
mdzthat one has no pcmcia08:12
mdzI should stop naming them all 'ubuntu'08:12
npmccallumthat would do it :)08:12
Mithrandirheh :)08:12
Mithrandirmdz: you know, if you don't feel like inventing something, ubuntu1, ubuntu2, ubuntu3, etc would work. ;)08:13
KamionOK; dinner while everything builds, then I'll roll and test a new daily.08:13
mdzKamion: ready to test when you are08:14
Kamioncounting all the archive/buildd schedules, should be an hour or so08:14
elmoso, like, anyone got a better name for warty-p-u than -p-u?  -errata maybe? 08:15
MithrandirRH used to call it errata, ISTR.08:16
Kamionor drop the -proposed and just call it -updates08:16
elmokamion: clashes with debian's stable/updates on sec.d.o08:18
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elmobut yeah, either works for me to be honest.. -updates or -errata08:21
mdzelmo: -updates WFM08:22
lamontdpkg: considering removing mtr-tiny in favour of mtr ...08:22
lamontdpkg: yes, will remove mtr-tiny in favour of mtr.08:22
lamontwhen did dpkg get polite???08:22
elmodude, it's done that for years.. it's an iwj-ism, I think08:23
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lamonthrm... jdub around yet?08:51
=== lamont finds that the gnome session manager is pretty useless for him...
=== debianist_away is now known as debianist
lamontuntil such time as I can force an ssh-add to happen after the login, and before all of the windows are restored...08:52
Keybuk.gnomerc ?08:53
lamontKeybuk: remember the cluefactor wrt gnome here...08:53
lamontI currently have a window popping up to do the ssh-add, but metacity likes to steal focus from it, and life is sad.08:55
lamontand all the other windows come up before I can get the passphrase love in08:55
lamontso they all want the passphrase.08:55
lamontwhich sucks08:55
lamontwhat would I put in (my nonexistant) .gnomerc?08:56
mdzthe right place for this stuff is in the session preferences...but you're saying that it doesn't wait for ssh-add to complete before it moves on?08:56
mdzor that ssh-add runs too late?08:56
mdzif it runs too late, there's a numeric sort order in there08:56
mdzif it doesn't wait, that seems like a bug08:56
Keybukyou're using gnome-ssh-askpass ?08:57
lamontscheduled to run early, as xterm -e ssh-add08:57
lamontKeybuk: uh, what's that...08:57
Keybukssh-askpass-gnome, sorry08:57
Keybukit's an ssh-askpass UI for GNOME08:57
=== lamont has been a gnome user for < 4 months
Keybukso instead of an Xaw dialog for your password, you get a GNOME HIGy one08:57
Keybukwhich has the advantage that it tells Metacity "THE FOCUS IS MINE" and grabs the keyboard08:58
lamontbut does everything else wait?08:58
Keybukno, but nothing takes the keyboard until it goes away08:58
Keybukin a terminal, do: ssh-add < /dev/null08:59
mdzssh-askpass-gnome is installed by default in ubuntu-desktop08:59
Kamionlamont: xterm -e ssh-add seems like a somewhat strange approach08:59
lamontby which time all the other xterm -e ssh sessions will have decided they want a passprhase...08:59
Keybukyeah, I see the problem there08:59
KamionI'd just do plain ssh-add08:59
mdzand will be used by default if no tty is available08:59
Kamionthen it ought to work08:59
lamontKamion: remember: gnome illiterate...09:00
Kamionlamont: so am I, this is my plain X setup09:00
Keybukyou need to do the ssh-add before the session manager starts really09:00
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=== lamont changes it to just plain old ssh-add, and will log out/in shortly.
lamont"No response to the SaveYourself command...."  Le huh?09:00
debianistsomebody ought to change the channel's subject :)09:02
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:Kamion] : SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
Kamionelmo: crap, I forgot to add hdparm-udeb to the cdrom initrds :-/09:04
Kamionelmo: uploading *another* debian-installer build ...09:05
Oskuroelmo: hug him!09:06
mdzelmo: what's the status of warty-security?  we're going to need to do some security updates soon, and we might as well put them through the -security infrastructure to test it out, if you'll be ready09:06
mdzthom: hmm, encountered a bug in the new xscreensaver09:07
mdzthom: ifs appears to be disabled :-P09:07
lamontmy RAM arrived - gotta go fetch it this afternoon09:08
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seb128hum, "An error occurred. Dammit. Error was: 270465 state kill-init at end." with the Debian BTS09:14
Kamionwill fix09:15
Kamionwhoa, or not. where'd the .log go?09:15
Kamion-rw-rw-r--    1 debbugs  debbugs         0 Sep  7 07:34 270465.log09:16
Kamionwe did get a scary mail earlier today09:16
seb128what sort of mail ?09:18
Kamionseb128: cron error from processall09:18
Kamionthat bug doesn't appear to be in any indexes; I'm inclined to just delete it and reprocess09:19
Kamionseb128: ok, that's now bug #270528; #270465 "never existed".09:20
seb128in fact I was just looking the "Opened/upgraded release-critical bugs" list09:21
seb128rc -= 1 :p09:22
mdzdaniels: your mail is looking09:30
elmomdz: tonight09:32
mdzpitti: still here?09:32
elmo(having a life is for losers after all :P)09:33
lamontmdz: someone working on 1080?09:36
elmomdz: oh yeah, why was I cc'ed on that?09:37
mdzlamont: you? :-)09:37
mdzelmo: ah, forgot to mention in the bug.  we had talked about whether it would be a good idea to add a global Bugs: override09:37
mdzthat's part of the same issue09:37
mdzthat would be one way to address the reportbug part of it09:38
elmooh, ok09:38
elmoI think we should do that regardless09:38
elmo'cos it's trivial and obviously correct09:38
lamontdo we have an email injection method for our bugzilla?09:39
elmohmm, assuming apt-ftparchive will overwrite existing fields, will have to check that09:39
lamont1066 is a valid bug.  bummer.09:39
lamontnot just because it means there'll be another linux-source upload...09:40
lamontmdz: who are we assigning kernel bugs to these days?09:40
mdzlamont: me, for now09:41
mdzlamont: no, but we need one09:41
mdzjustdave: ?09:42
lamontmdz: I'd like to be able to burn dvd's on warty...09:42
=== justdave doesn't do kernel ;)
mdzthat is09:42
mdzkernel: me, for now09:42
mdzemail injection method for bugzilla: no, but we need one, ->justdave09:42
justdaveah that, yes, that'd be me09:43
mdzwe need a way to gateway reportbug into our bugzilla09:43
lamontmdz: OK.  First issue is that ide-scsi isn't getting loaded, hence lots of bitchiness as noted.09:43
mdzemail seems like the most expedient way, since reportbug already sends a nicely-formatted email09:43
mdzlamont: ide-scsi should not be necessary anymore09:43
lamontthen, once ide-scsi is modprobed into existance (and the bitchiness is gone from kern.log), it says: :-( unable to PREVENT MEDIA REMOVAL: Operation not permitted09:44
lamontor is that perms again..09:44
mdzI haven't tried to write a DVD yet under 2.6.8, but writing CDs with cdrecord works fine so far09:44
mdzI'll try one right now09:44
Kamionspeaking of, fixing #923 is easy, but I'm going to leave it until sounder 8's done now09:44
tvon|x31'sounder 8' is like an RC/beta sorta thing?09:46
Kamionthe Sounder CD releases are testing milestones for Warty09:47
tvon|x31The nightlies are snapshots of them I take it?09:47
Kamionfor Hoary, they'll be Array CD releases, I'm told09:47
mdzlamont: seems to be working fine so far09:47
mdzlamont: mine is USB, so no ide-scsi madness anyway09:47
lamontwill update the bug with my findings for ide...09:47
Kamionthe dailies are entirely automatic snapshots, yes; they might be arbitrarily broken09:48
Kamionthe Sounder CD releases usually have some kind of development milestones associated with them, they come with release notes, and they have at least been used by me to do a complete install :-)09:48
mdzlamont: try it without ide-scsi and see what happens09:49
mdzI spoke too soon09:49
mdzit got to 4.5% and went nuts09:49
mdzwell, it's spewing SCSI errors at the rate of several hundred per second09:50
mdzbut the burn seems to be chugging merrily along09:50
lamontbug updated, assigned to you09:51
mdzKamion: I was just thinking09:53
mdzKamion: apt-cdrom essentially does "find /cdrom/"09:53
mdzKamion: maybe that could substitute for your explicit find09:53
dokomithrandir: gcc-3.4 build finished on amd64, i386, powerpc without new regressions. waiting for your ok now.09:53
MithrandirI'm going to build m-t with it to test, ok?09:56
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dokofine. amd64 binaries currently on yellow:~doko/gcc/09:57
Mithrandiris gcc-3.4_3.4.1ds1-7ubuntu5 the right version?09:58
dokono, 3.4.2-1ubuntu110:00
Kamionmdz: probably not in cdrom-detect, since apt-cdrom isn't even close to installed yet ...10:01
fabbionehey guys10:03
fabbionewas the meeting here in #ubuntu?10:03
Kamionlamont: let me know if debian-installer fails (blocking on that at the moment)10:08
Mithrandirdoko: uhm10:09
Mithrandir: tfheen@golem /tmp > g++-3.4 -o hello hello.c10:09
MithrandirIn file included from hello.c:1:10:09
Mithrandir/usr/include/stdio.h:34:21: stddef.h: No such file or directory10:09
Mithrandir(and then a lot of errors)10:09
Mithrandirm-t fails to build as well, which was what got me started10:10
Mithrandirfrom m-t:10:11
Mithrandirconfigure:2230: g++-3.4 -o conftest    conftest.C  1>&510:11
Mithrandirld: cannot open crtbegin.o: No such file or directory10:11
Mithrandirconfigure: failed program was:10:11
Mithrandir#line 2225 "configure"10:11
Mithrandir#include "confdefs.h"10:11
Mithrandirint main(){return(0);}10:11
Mithrandirsure you don't have to tighten some deps?10:12
lamontmdz: re 1072: yeah, ok.10:12
lamontI meant to say NOTWARTY, honest.10:12
Mithrandirdoko: mea culpa, version skew10:13
Mithrandirdoko: if you don't upgrade g++, but only libgcc and gcc, g++ blows up10:13
dokoyes, g++-3.4_3.4.1 has a dependency on gcc-3.4 (<< 3.4.2), so that should not happen,10:15
Mithrandirwell, it did.10:15
thommdz: hey, i just do what i'm told10:16
Kamionmdz: but yes, apt-cdrom would substitute for it in the case where you aren't using archive-copier; I didn't make any post-reboot changes along those lines10:17
dokohmm, g++-3.4_3.4.1-7ubuntuX has a Depends: gcc-3.4-base, libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), gcc-3.4 (>= 3.4.1-10), gcc-3.4 (<< 3.4.2), libstdc++6-dev (>= 3.4.1-10)10:20
fabbionemdz: yes.. that's correct. i am going to add the nvidia bits only.10:20
fabbionedaniels: i will pass the package to you after for ati10:21
fabbioneno.. no ati :-)10:21
fabbioneok.. cya tomorrow guys10:25
fabbionegood night everybody10:25
lamontnight fabbione10:25
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lamontmdz: the question on dvd burning is, should failure to lock the door (EPERM, to be specific) be fatal to the burn process, or is that just caveat emptor?10:28
mdzlamont: I would say emphatically no, it should not be fatal10:30
=== lamont tests his fix
lamontspecifically, commenting out the exit()..10:30
mdzlamont: is read/write permission on the device no longer sufficient to lock the door, or something?10:31
lamontdunno, but user with rw, not root can't do it..10:32
lamontmdz: no dice.10:32
lamontAbout to execute 'builtin_dd if=warty-i386-1.iso of=/dev/hdc obs=32k seek=0'10:32
lamont:-( unable to PREVENT MEDIA REMOVAL: Operation not permitted10:32
lamont /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 2.5x1385KBps.10:32
lamont:-( unable to WRITE@LBA=0h: Operation not permitted10:32
lamont:-( write failed: Operation not permitted10:32
lamontso it looks like write access to the device is no longer sufficient to write to the device.10:33
mdzlamont: so it works as root?10:34
dokokeybuk: around?10:34
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lamontproviding you don't have the environment variable 'SUDO_COMMAND' in your environment10:34
mdzlamont: so is this the same issue as #1066, or really a different one?10:34
lamontthis is 106610:35
mdzlamont: yeah, I filed a bug about that10:35
mdzI think10:35
lamont1066's reporter only had the non-root-user perspective10:35
mdzNow, the funny thing here is that neither doing this as root or user10:36
mdzworked, but cdrecord with the dvd patch applied was successfull in10:36
mdzblanking the media, but not in burning afterward. Once10:36
mdzcdrecord+dvd-patch blanked the disk, i could without problem burn the10:36
mdzmedia with the above growisofs invocation.10:36
mdzthat's from #26939710:36
lamontwant me to remove the predjudice???  huh, huh, can I? can I?10:36
mdzsounds like a different problem10:36
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lamontactually, 269397 looks to be the one I see after I defeat the door-lock code.10:39
lamontbut still kernel bug10:39
lamontmdz: OK to upload a fix for 268308?10:40
lamontgiven our trend towards sudo, and all that..10:40
=== lamont needs to go to town for a while.
mdzlamont: if it's trivial (only removing code), yeah, why not10:40
lamontKamion: debian-installer_20040801ubuntu10 succeeded x310:42
lamontmdz: OK.  gotta go fetch the kidds10:42
lamontKamion: and checking that is the only reason I'm still here... :-)10:43
=== lamont flees
Kamionelmo: can I have that byhanded? sorry to pester, I'm blocked on it10:45
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mdzalextreme: ping?10:58
alextrememdz: pong10:58
alextremei've been lurking since the meeting started :)10:59
mdzalextreme: will it be possible for you to build a live CD which corresponds to sounder 8?  that would be excellent11:00
elmokamion: powerpc still isn't built ..11:01
elmothe others are done though11:01
Kamionelmo: hm, lamont must've been confused11:02
=== elmo thwaps lamont
elmo4,9,14,19,24,29,34,39,44,49,54,59* * * *        /usr/bin/buildd-uploader11:03
elmocron.daily's running now11:04
alextrememdz: and sounder 8 is the end of this week?11:04
mdzalextreme: sounder 8 is tonight :-)11:04
alextremehmm, that might get kinda tight :)11:04
elmokamion: if you're blocked on me and I've wandered off, just hate-sms me11:05
Kamionelmo: all right, thanks11:05
mdzalextreme: hmm...what is a realistic date to have an updated live CD?  is it more than one day's work?11:05
Kamionalextreme: doesn't have to be exactly in sync11:05
mdzI thought it was almost automated now11:05
Kamionalextreme: you might want to grab the archive as of a few minutes from now, though11:06
alextremeand updated live CD doesn't cost much time to make, but with only one hour left... :)11:06
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mdzalextreme: well, it doesn't need to be released at the same time, the idea was just to have the same packages on it11:07
mdzor very close to it11:07
alextremehas there been a lot of changes lately?11:07
mdzalextreme: there have been a lot of changes since wartylive-v1 :-)11:08
alextremei'll check the wiki and update my packagelist :)11:09
mdzalextreme: you should use germinate to generate the package list, so that it is consistent with ours11:10
mdzor perhaps Kamion can send you a current copy11:10
alextremei know, but not all packages are installable or usable from the live cd, so i've had to edit it a bit11:11
alextremeseems only the base has had any changes though, desktop packagenames seem to be unaltered11:12
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seb128hey SurcouF 11:12
SurcouFhi seb128 11:12
SurcouFhi everyone11:12
seb128guys, SurcouF has cancelled the user creation during the installation11:12
Kamioncurrent copies of germinate output are here: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~cjwatson/germinate-warty-output/11:13
seb128and he has no root password11:13
seb128and no user account11:13
seb128how he solves that ? :)11:13
alextremek, thanks Kamion11:13
SurcouFseb128, no problem to solve11:13
Kamionor boot with single, on i386 there's probably even an entry for that on the grub boot menu11:13
seb128SurcouF: oh, I was thinking so :)11:13
SurcouFthis is a bug11:13
seb128SurcouF: how do you log ?11:13
SurcouFfrom installer11:13
Kamioncancelled how?11:14
SurcouFseb128, what do you mean ?11:14
SurcouFKamion, by select "Cancel" and hit down11:14
Kamionplease file a bugzilla bug11:14
Kamioncomponent passwd (if that exists, otherwise UNKNOWN); assign to cjwatson@flatline.org.uk11:14
Kamion(i.e. me)11:15
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Kamionmdz: new daily is up11:17
debianistbtw , just installed from previous one11:18
seb128kagou: working daily ? :)11:18
debianistover my system.11:18
seb128Kamion: working daily ? :)11:19
kagouseb128, :)11:19
seb128kagou: I hate the new xchat's completion11:19
kagoume too11:19
SurcouFseb128, like irssi ? ;-)11:19
seb128SurcouF: probably yes11:19
Kamionseb128: dunno yet11:19
Kamionrsyncing now to find out11:20
alextrememdz: k, i've set up everything to build a new warty overnight. it still has a 2.6.7 kernel though, would that be an issue?11:22
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debianistwould the list be a proper place for install experience?11:32
Kamionthere've been other installation reports there11:32
debianisthowever there is one thing i feel i'd better ask you here, im not sure if this is something i did wrong11:32
debianistregarding x resultion probes11:32
debianist(or the other guys for that matter)11:33
Keybukdoko: firefly break ... back now?  what's up?11:34
dokoalready submitted a report against dpkg, if you want to have a look ...11:35
debianistconfig chose the monitor biggest resulotion, however i barely can use the desktop on it. where is the gnome desktop resolution chooser?11:35
Kamiondebianist: don't think the X guys are around right now, probably best to mention it in the installation report and say what graphics hardware you've got, then they'll be able to look at it11:35
Kamionah, there's one somewhere, I don't remember where though ...11:36
debianistcouldn't find any under "Computer" --> "Desktop prefs"11:36
debianistit's under ssytem prefs11:37
Keybukdoko: hmm, how can you fulfil that dependency?11:40
Keybukoh, wait, sorry, misread it11:40
SurcouFKamion, #108511:41
dokokeybuk: installing new g++-3.4, libstdc++6, libstdc++6-dev as well.11:42
KamionSurcouF: I quite like the idea of cancelling the user addition and being sent back to set the root password, actually11:43
Kamionmdz_: what do you think?11:43
SurcouFKamion, as you wish11:43
SurcouFjust some ideas11:43
Kamionyup, thanks11:44
Kamionwe'll talk about what the right thing to do is; the current situation is clearly a bug11:44
SurcouFI'll report another bug against xserver-xfree8611:45
Keybukdoko: if I try with the following, is that enough of a test?11:46
Keybuk  cpp-3.4 g++-3.4 gcc-3.4 gcc-3.4-base libstdc++6 libstdc++6-dev11:46
Keybukall 3.4.1-7 11:46
dokolibgcc1 is missing, and then all these but g++-3.4,  libstdc++6 libstdc++6-dev from 3.4.2-1 (which doesn't exist yet in the archive)11:47
dokobasically, it should be enough to install cpp-3.4 gcc-3.4-base libgcc1 gcc-3.4 from 3.4.1-7 and then only upgrade cpp-3.4 gcc-3.4-base libgcc111:49
KeybukI already have libgcc111:49
dokodo you have an amd64 platform o check on=11:50
debianistNuvola theme missing from ubuntu :(11:50
KeybukI have no 3.4.2 of those ... where is it?11:51
debianisti had many unmet dependencies at the package installation setup phase from the CD, after which I was sent back to aptitude to correct these. ofcourse i couldn't take note of all the packges that failed as this was blzing fast. anyone seen this?11:52
dokoamd64: yellow:~doko/gcc, or else currently uploading to people.debian.org/~doko/gcc-3.4/ ...11:52
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Keybukdoko: ok, ping me when the i386 debs are up11:53
dokothese are debian unstable only, rebuilding the warty debs, but going to bed now.11:54
Keybukthat's ok, am on my unstable machine atm11:54
mdz_Kamion: regarding #1085?  I'll take a look11:55
dokoKeybuk: I don't ping you, the upload should be finished in about one hour (it's finished if you see the treelang deb)11:56
KeybukI've got it11:57
Keybukthe bug isn't what you think it is11:57
Keybukit's just the "dpkg doesn't reverify dependencies on upgrade" bug11:57
Keybukwhen you upgrade packages, it only takes their dependencies into account, it doesn't recheck any dependencies on the old package11:57
mdz_Kamion: I like the idea of falling back to setting a root password, but it seems simpler to disallow skipping that step11:58
mdz_Kamion: whatever is simplest, really11:58
justdaveis there a way to make the terminal services client have real scrollbars instead of the classic xterm style ones?11:58

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