seb128mdz: booting in single user gives a root login without any password according to SurcouF 12:00
seb128mdz: is that expected ?12:00
mdzseb128: yes12:01
seb128mdz: so if somebody turn my box on, boot on single user he gets a root session ... and that's not a problem ?12:04
mdzseb128: no, it isn't12:04
mdzseb128: if he has access to the console, you lose12:04
mdzhe could just as easily use init=/bin/sh12:04
mdzor boot from CD12:04
seb128true ...12:05
=== Mithrandir hits the sack.
dokokeybuk: thanks for the explanation!12:07
mdzMithrandir: night12:07
dokomithrandir: good night, so the gXX-3.4 dependencies should be no problem12:08
Keybukwell, as much as << dependencies have always been useless, sure :p12:09
Keybukiirc. versioned conflicts have the same problem, you can always stick the conflicting version in afterwards12:12
mdzfabbione: hmm, my uxterm colours (for ls and such) are now different in unstable12:14
dokomdz: btw, do we have something faster than gnome-terminal for desktop?12:18
Keybukwhat's wrong with gnome-terminal?12:18
=== Clint [~asdfasf@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
dokokeybuk: try compiling gcc in xterm and in gnome-terminal. it's slower in gnome-terminal.12:23
Keybukyes, iirc. vte deliberately slows down scrolling so you can read it12:24
dokonot something that our target user will notice, but it's a bit annoying.12:25
Kamioncurrent daily looks good on i386, ok on powerpc except for a few glitches12:27
KamionKeybuk: whoa, that's a stupid idea12:28
Kamiondoko: xterm's in desktop ...12:28
dokokamion: but not accessible from the menu by default.12:29
Keybukpeople who want it know where they can get it12:30
Keybukconfusing users with "Terminal", "X Terminal", "Unicode X Terminal" is bad12:30
Keybukcf. "Another Clock"12:30
glyphIMHO cryptic options should look cryptic12:32
Keybukno, they should look invisible12:32
dokosure, but maybe that could be addressed for hoary. we have an alternative for a web browser as well. Simply add/substitute the things from gnome, which are not good enough. it doesn't have to be xterm, maybe something else, as long as it's not kterm.12:32
glyphKeybuk: novices will ignore things they don't understand; if you have an "advanced" menu that says "uxterm aterm rxvt Eterm", nobody is going to expect those words to open a word processor :)12:33
KeybukAdvanced menus are evil12:33
Keybuk"Here's a set of things that are different, but we're not telling you how"12:34
mdzxterm is in desktop, rxvt is in universe12:34
mdzI don't think they should be in the menu12:34
dokomdz: yes, there should only one terminal emulator in the menu, but gnome-terminal doesn't seem to be the best choice.12:35
Keybukif a user really wants eterm, they'll download and install it themselves and set up their own launcher for it12:35
Keybukdoko: it's the only one that fits in with the rest of the desktop12:35
mdzdoko: I find gnome-terminal to be a nice balance of unicode support, configurability and usability12:36
mdzit is a much better choice for the menu than, e.g. xterm or rxvt12:36
Keybukuxterm is slower than gnome-terminal isn't it, anyway?12:36
Kamiongetting gnome-terminal to use unicode is pain12:36
mdzKeybuk: no12:36
jdubKeybuk: especially not if you're using screen ;)12:36
mdzKamion: eh?  it seems to do utf-8 by default12:36
Kamionyou have to not only start it in a Unicode locale but also export LANG=whatever once you're inside the new terminal window12:36
KeybukKamion: huh?  it uses it by default?12:36
Kamionif you LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 xterm then it passes that through to the locale like it's supposed to12:37
dokomdz: I don't argue about the usability of gnome-terminal, but it's way too slooow.12:37
KamionI suspect gnome-terminal defaults to a login shell or something12:37
Keybukwell, obviously LANG has to be exported, otherwise apps don't know to output utf-8 characters12:37
jdubdoko: that can be fixed, and people who need a fast terminal can fall back on xterm12:37
KamionKeybuk: dude, LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 gnome-terminal starts up a terminal in en_GB12:37
KeybukKamion: What is the "Run command as a login shell" option set to?12:37
mdzI don't think it defaults to a login shell; I remember having to enable that12:37
KamionI'm running this from another terminal12:37
mdzbecause dammit, it's the right thing to do12:38
Kamionpreferences should be irrelevant12:38
Keybukdescent scott% export LANG=C12:38
Keybukdescent scott% LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 gnome-terminal12:38
Keybukdescent scott% echo $LANG12:38
jdubmdz: it is? i always wondered about that - does that make .bash_profile do the right thing?12:38
Kamionfresh warty installation, I have no idea about descent12:38
dokokeybuk: it runs bash --login12:38
Keybukare you sure you're actually running gnome-terminal for the first time?12:38
Keybukif you had one open as LANG=en_GB ... that is the process that'll open your new window12:38
Keybuk(compare gnome-terminal --disable-factory)12:39
KamionKeybuk: I started one, then immediately in that terminal ran 'LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 gnome-terminal'. it did not work properly.12:39
Kamionxterm does.12:39
Keybukah, yes12:39
Keybukthat won't work12:39
mdzjdub: yes12:39
Kamionwhy on earth not?12:39
Keybukyou only have one gnome-terminal process12:39
Kamionoh, *that* crap12:39
Keybukthe one you ran with LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 just kicked the activation server to tell the running process to open a new window12:39
KamionI guess that explains it, but I think it's a fundamental misdesign12:40
Clintdoes that mean you can't have multiple tabs with different locales?12:40
KeybukClint: gnome-terminal --disable-factory on the one you want with different settings12:40
mdzsure you can12:40
mdzClint: you just have to set it after you open the terminal12:40
Keybukor indeed, different profiles with custom commands, etc.12:40
mdzrunning 'gnome-terminal' when there is only one open, opens a new window in the running gnome-terminal process (like mozilla)12:41
mdzwhich is actually quite nice, considering the amount of memory that gnome-terminal would require otherwise12:41
Clintso "LANG=en_GB.UTF8 gnome-terminal" could be made to work12:41
KeybukClint: "LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 gnome-terminal --disable-factory"12:41
Keybukwill start a new gnome-terminal process12:42
mdzat the cost of some memory12:42
Kamionmdz: I tried changing the locale in a new tab, but it doesn't seem to display Unicode characters correctly when I do that12:42
Kamiontested with "printf '\xa3' | iconv -f ISO-8859-1 -t UTF-8"12:43
Kamionah, I have to use "Set Character Encoding"12:43
mdzKamion: hmm, I thought there was a profile setting for that, but I guess it sets it based on your locale when you start it12:43
mdzah, there it is12:43
Kamionthat's per-tab12:44
mdznot in the profile, but a menu12:44
Kamioncould probably put it in a profile I guess12:44
mdzKamion: any remaining external blockers for sounder 8?12:45
Kamionno, I'll release it once I reboot12:45
seb128Kamion: unset LANGUAGE && LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 gnome-terminal ?12:48
seb128Kamion: LANGUAGE is read before LANG IIRC12:48
seb128(for GNOME stuff)12:49
Kamioncan't check now I'm afraid, I'll have a look next time12:49
Kamionmdz: there's another amusing initscript bug though12:49
mdzKamion: *groan*12:51
=== ClintU [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== jdub notes that dict is not in the desktop seed, adds it to HoaryHedgehog/DesktopSeed :-)
mdzKamion: did you file aa bug and/or tell npmccallum yet?12:52
mdzjdub: gdict not good enough? :-P12:52
ClintUdamn, 236MB upgrade12:52
jdubmdz: we have command line equivalents :-)12:52
jdubmdz: and i have never managed to get used to gdict12:53
mdzjdub: just ruffling your GNOME feathers12:53
mdzjdub: I would be happy to have dict in desktop, except that it would apparently pull in other packages12:53
Kamionmdz: just filed, #108812:54
jdubmdz: netbase, recode?12:54
mdzjdub: recode, apparently12:54
mdznetbase is of course in base12:55
mdzKamion: oh, I already fixed that, didn't I?12:55
Kamiondid you?12:55
mdzit looks like perhaps I did not upload it12:55
mdzand deleted it12:55
mdzI remember doing it12:55
mdzthat was the reason why therm-windtunnel wasn't getting loaded on my ppc12:56
mdzit was bailing out after ide-generic loaded12:56
mdzbut I certainly don't see the fix in the archive12:56
Kamionide-cd and something else were casualties here12:57
Kamionoh god, now I have to come up with release notes12:57
mdzKamion: I'm available to give amd64 a whirl before you bless it, if you're ready12:58
Kamiongo for it12:58
Kamionthe daily's up12:58
ClintUI suggest updating xchat.01:00
mdzClintU: RC bugs?01:00
mdz   490483712 100%    4.26MB/s    0:01:49  (3, 44.4% of 9)01:01
mdznot a bad hit rate from yesterday01:01
ClintUmdz: issues with crashing and tabs jumping around01:01
ClintUare ppc images available yet?01:02
mdzweird, haven't seen that01:02
ClintUi've only experienced it on one system01:02
mdzClintU: yes, as I posted to the sounder list yesterday01:02
ClintUI completely forgot that the name changed.01:03
mdzwe now have all architectures' kernels built from one source package01:03
mdzand kernel-image-2.6-* metapackages01:03
mdzer, linux-image01:03
=== ClintU chuckles.
Kamionmdz: everything's ready on my end, let me know when you're done01:15
jdubKamion: the daily ~= sounder8 ?01:15
Kamionjdub: ==01:17
=== jdub sucks it down.
jdubi'm going to have to invert my timezone or something01:17
jdubi keep doing big downloads on-peak01:17
jduboh man01:18
jdub"Fisher and Hamill as Skywalker and Princess Leia."01:18
jdubYOU SIPPERS01:18
mdzKamion: CD writer is acting up, working on it01:18
mdzI've tried it in 3 different machines now, and I'm starting to suspect that the drive may be fucked :-/01:26
Kamionmind if I release it anyway? I want to stop work pretty soon01:29
mdzKamion: yeah, don't wait for me01:29
mdzI thought this would be fast01:29
npmccallumKamion: module-init-tools bug is fixed, pcmcia fix is on its way01:30
mdzI hate computers01:30
Hrdwr_BoBpop down the street and buy a new burner01:30
Kamionnpmccallum: great, thanks01:30
jdubKamion, mdz: did you want to test amd64 exclusively, or...?01:31
mdzjdub: amd64, I believe, is the architecture that kamion can't test locally01:31
Kamionjdub: I've only tested i386 and powerpc (the latter with some problems)01:31
jduboh, ok01:31
=== jdub is just burning it now
Kamionreminds me, really must order that system tomorrow, now that they've taken back the amd32 one I ordered by mistake01:32
mdzHrdwr_BoB: about twice that; it's DVD, but thanks01:32
jdubwow, google is six years old01:32
Hrdwr_BoBah cool01:33
=== jdub tries sounder 8 :)
jdubwow, the copying stage doesn't suck01:46
jdubit's way fast01:46
Kamionthat'd be the one-liner find magic01:47
jdubfor the iso sorting, or the actual copying?01:47
KamionI was thinking of only copying Desktop and letting Base just install in the old way, since debootstrap is now fast on its own01:47
jdub(cd is running at a consistent speed)01:47
Kamionneither, the "get all the directories into the dentry cache first" change to cdrom-detect01:47
jdubthat's rad01:48
Kamionthere's ISO sorting as well now but the cdrom-detect change was about an order of magnitude more effective by itself01:48
jduboh, you're copying shipseed too, interesting01:48
Kamionyeah, was unsure about that01:48
Kamioninclined to turn that off for the preview release01:48
=== jdub would lean towards not doing it
jdubmdz: copy shipseed?01:49
Kamionnote that at the moment base-config runs 'apt-get clean' after installing Desktop anyway :-)01:49
jdubi see ;)01:49
Kamionthat could be changed, of course, but I'm waiting 'til we decide what to copy01:49
=== ClintU [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
ClintU2.6.8.1 doesn't work either01:50
Kamionanyhow, time for !work; eating something might be a good start01:50
KamionClintU: on the blue+white?01:50
ClintUsame initrd panic01:51
Kamionum, later :-)01:51
ClintUbon appetit01:51
alextremehmm, ttf-arabeyes isn't in the archive?01:51
mdzKamion: cdrom-detect change?01:53
mdzClintU: what panic is that?01:53
mdzalextreme: hmm, that's strange01:53
alextrememdz: (not sure if you got this one earlier) i've set up everything to build a new warty overnight. it still has a 2.6.7 kernel though, would that be an issue?01:53
mdzalextreme: is it problematic to put on it?01:54
mdzwe need as much testing for the new kernel as we can get01:54
alextremewell, the kernel would have a different config and be patched, but if you can wait an extra hour or two... :)01:55
mdzalextreme: for this, I have all night :-)01:55
mdzalextreme: anything I can do to help?01:55
alextreme(unfortunately I don't, need to get up in 6 hours)01:56
alextremeoh yeah, i had a whole list for him, and he splits01:57
=== ClintU chuckles.
ClintUI was just about to answer his question too.01:57
ClintUHe's a devious one.01:57
alextremeno shit01:58
alextremeoh well, back to building, testing, packaging and yelling I guess...01:58
alextremedpkg: error processing ubuntu-artwork (--configure):01:59
alextreme subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 101:59
ClintUtsk, tsk, tsk02:00
=== ClintU is now known as Uclintu
=== mdz [~mdz@] has joined #ubuntu
Uclintumdz: #49602:02
jdubalextreme: what was the error? grub-related?02:02
alextremehope it sorts itself out, but afaik grub was already installed02:03
mdzdammit, I think my burner is toast02:06
mdzthat, or it's a problem with
Hrdwr_BoBwhat is the error?02:08
Hrdwr_BoBthere was a problem with burning CDs with 2.6.802:08
Uclintumdz: #496 is the panic02:09
mdzUclintu: curious...what happens if you boot with devfs=mount?02:10
Uclintumdz: i'll tell you in a few minutes02:11
jdubargh, can we get rid of that grub summary?02:11
mdzjdub: grub summary?02:12
jdubmdz: boot's much faster ;)02:12
jdubwhen the screen clears after the 'press esc to run grub' bit02:12
jdubit says 'starting ubuntu <kernelversion> '02:12
jdub(with that annoying space)02:12
jduband then prints a summary of grub config02:12
=== StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu
mdzoh, I believe that's actually grub printing the commands as they're executed02:13
jdubthe extracting templates stage -> if there's nothing to preconfigure, can we skip that?02:16
lifelessjdub: we still on today?02:16
mdzjdub: BUILTIN_NO_ECHO (for grub)02:16
mdzjdub: try building with that02:16
jdubmdz: build var?02:17
jdublifeless: hrm, kinda prefer not unless we have an agenda02:17
mdzjdub: bitfield02:17
jdublifeless: going full steam ahead, don't really want much distraction atm (apart from my lappy arriving, but playing with that will also involve serious testing, yes, uh huh)02:18
Keybukjdub: not to mention packing it back up in disgust and sending it back02:19
jdubi've played with one, they're nice02:19
mdzjdub: what that step is doing is unpacking the bits which decide whether or not there is any preconfiguration to be done02:19
jdubyes, but we know in advance that there isn't02:20
mdzjdub: we don't02:21
mdzxfree86, for example, does its probes to determine whether or not it needs to ask questions02:21
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
Uclintumdz: no dice02:22
mdzoh well02:22
Uclintuit did say "Mounting devfs on /dev" twice though02:23
Uclintuis there a known XKB problem?02:24
mdzhmm, writer isn't working any better after going back to 2.6.702:24
mdzI will be unhappy if it is toast02:24
npmccallummdz: on your thinkpad?02:25
mdzUclintu: for macintosh/dvorak, yes02:25
mdznpmccallum: on every system I have tried today02:25
Uclintumdz: i'm not using dvorak; reporting02:26
npmccallummdz: I had a strange problem with my writer not working... I wanted to test a clean install and it worked fine after that... it was very strange though02:26
mdznpmccallum: it keeps claiming buffer underruns, regardless of conditions02:27
mdzafter a SCSI error02:27
mdzSense Code: 0x21 Qual 0x02 (invalid address for write) Fru 0x002:27
mdztried different media, different machines, USB2 vs. USB1.102:27
mdzdifferent kernels02:27
mdzthe thing worked yesterday02:27
mdztrying a different cdrecord version now02:28
npmccallummdz: is it a scsi drive or atapi?02:29
mdznpmccallum: an atapi drive in a USB enclosure02:29
mdzwhich translates roughly to scsi/usb-storage02:29
npmccallumdid you try a 1x burn?02:30
mdzI have, but it doesn't seem to accept it02:30
mdzthe drive has never really liked having the speed set02:30
mdzit just goes ahead and burns at whatever speed it wants02:30
mdzeven with driveropts=forcespeed02:30
mdzI've tried 4x and 16x media02:30
mdzmakes no difference whatsoever02:31
npmccallumdid the speed drop to 4x on the 4x media?02:31
mdzthe drive chooses reasonable speeds; it just doesn't let me override it if I want something else02:31
elmonpmccallum: <whine>please do proper changelog entries, i.e. describe what you fixed, not just "fixed #nnnn"</>02:32
=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
Uclintuare there no CJK input methods in warty?02:32
npmccallumelmo: ok02:32
mdzthe only other thing I can think of to try would be to rip out the bare drive and use it as ATAPI02:33
mdzbut that would be extremely inconvenient at this time02:34
mdzand it seems rather unlikely to help02:34
npmccallummdz: did you try a new usb cable?02:34
mdznpmccallum: no, but I will02:35
npmccallumI'm off to study... Just started a new class today "Attic Greek 1", so I'm off to learn all the eccentricities of a new language02:35
mdzand if that doesn't help, I'll try 139402:38
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-217-97.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
npmccallummdz: btw, http://pydirectfb.sourceforge.net/ if we want to do usplash in python and directfb02:42
mdzsame behaviour with 1394.  I think the drive is done02:45
alextrememdz: I'm off for the night, I'll be back online tomorrow evening and hope to have something useful by then. if not, thursday is my day off so that's the latest possible02:47
mdzalextreme: ok, good night, thanks02:48
danielsfabbione: i'm not doing ati02:49
danielsmdz: where's it looping?02:50
mdzdaniels: looping?02:50
danielsoh, duh, it's probably looping at fooish02:50
danielsmdz: mail02:50
danielshm, no, it's accepting that02:50
=== cef_work [~cef@fw-01.amc.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
mdzdaniels: I forwarded messages to daniels@d.o02:52
mdzdid those get through?02:52
danielsoh, wait, they'd be in +debian02:53
danielsi'll tell you in a few minutes, when i've cleared my inbox02:53
mdzdaniels: /msg'd02:54
mdzthis drive reads discs with no problem, but doesn't burn for shit anymore02:57
mdzthat seems like a weird failure condition02:57
danielsmdz: ifxed, thanks02:59
danielsbbiab, downloading xfree86 ubuntu14 diff03:01
Kamion00:53 < mdz> Kamion: cdrom-detect change?03:06
Kamionmdz: what exactly did your question mean? :)03:07
mdzKamion: you said that your cdrom-detect change had a larger effect on performance03:11
mdzKamion: is that where you did the find?03:11
Kamionmade sense to do it immediately after mounting the CD-ROM, and doing it there meant that it sped up the "loading installer components from CD" step03:12
Kamion(the latter's quite a noticeable improvement on my powerbook)03:12
mdzKamion: why is archive-copier a net speed loss?03:12
Kamionmdz: in the first stage03:12
Kamionmdz: you're doing more work, obviously it's a speed loss :)03:12
mdzoh, naturally03:12
KamionI think it's a net loss anyway, it's doing more I/O by copying to the hard disk03:13
Kamion500MB is non-trivial even on a disk03:13
Kamionand if you're reading the packages while installing them you probably get more benefit from I/O parallelization </handwave>03:14
mdzhard drive seeks are orders of magnitude faster, though03:14
mdzit'd be an interesting thing to measure03:14
Kamionsure, but that doesn't seem to be subjectively noticeable in the tests I've done03:14
mdzbut it's a better experience even if it is a net loss03:14
KamionI think we should copy only Desktop packages03:14
Kamionthat way we can do the better-experience thing but with less of a speed hit03:15
Kamioninstalling Base without archive-copier enabled seems pretty quick to me following the cdrom-detect change03:15
Kamionand if we copy less we'll have lower hard disk space requirements03:16
danielsmdz: if you remove the offending file, and add in a link /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/macintosh/dvorak->/etc/X11/xkb/symbols/dvorak, does that help?03:24
=== haggai_ [~halls@pD9EA5F5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu
danielsany mac uers in da house?03:32
danielsda hizzouse03:32
Uclintui'm on a b&w g3 atm03:32
mdzdaniels: doesn't seem to fix it03:32
mdzoh, sorry03:32
mdzI misread03:32
danielsmdz: arse03:32
danielsmdzcopying the file?03:32
mdzdaniels: I already have a symlink, /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/macintosh/dvorak -> ../dvorak03:33
mdzwhich I added myself03:33
mdzand yes, that fixes it03:33
danielsmdz: er yeah, that's what I asked you to try03:33
mdzfor some reason, having the broken symlink there prevented my fix from working03:33
danielsyeah, i can see that03:34
danielsit's pretty typical for that sort of code03:36
daniels'let's try to compile all the mac stuff' 'how about no' 'good plan'03:36
jdubmdz: mouse fix was good03:40
=== jdub does a custom install
jdubnow i want to run ubuntu on my mipsel03:43
jdubhave build farm, will sing03:44
jdubKamion: heh03:45
jdubKamion: custom install copies all packages ;-)03:45
jdubKamion: file bug?03:45
mdzI _almost_ wish I had a Windows system so I could rule out all remaining software-related possibilities03:46
Kamionjdub: uh, it's not supposed to do that03:47
Kamionjdub: yes, that's a bug03:47
Kamion# In the custom install, only copy Base (this is purely for CD-reading speed).03:47
Kamionif db_get ubuntu/install-type && "$RET" = custom; then03:47
Kamion    baseonly=yes03:47
Kamion    baseonly=no03:47
Kamionme stupid03:47
KamionI don't know what kind of shell syntax '"$RET" = custom' (without [ ]  or test) is, but it ain't gonna work03:48
jdubdon't worry about filing? :)03:48
Kamiongo ahead and file anyway, I'm about to go now and won't have time to upload until tomorrow03:48
jdubKamion: ok03:49
lifelessdaniels: welcome to the light03:49
danielsmake[6] : Leaving directory `/home/daniels/canonical/xfree86/xfree86-4.3.0.dfsg.1/build-tree/xc/lib/font/X-TrueType/BIG5'03:49
danielscleaning in lib/font/X-TrueType/BIG5HKSCS...03:49
danielsmake[6] : Entering directory `/home/daniels/canonical/xfree86/xfree86-4.3.0.dfsg.1/build-tree/xc/lib/font/X-TrueType/BIG503:49
danielsmake[6] : *** No rule to make target `clean'.  Stop.03:49
danielsi didn't even touch that part of the world!03:49
Hrdwr_BoBdaniels, my vnc cpu usage issue makes using VNC almost entirely pointless as it grinds the whole thing to a halt - should I file a bug or ...?03:50
danielsHrdwr_BoB: tempting to say 'don't do that, then'03:50
danielsi mean, you can file a bug, but i can't realistically see us fixing it, sorry03:50
Hrdwr_BoBthat's fine for me, I don't really care03:50
danielslucky, then ;)03:51
jdubHrdwr_BoB: until we have a DAMAGE-enabled server, you're kinda stuck with it03:51
Hrdwr_BoBwell, I'm not stuck, as I said, doesn't bother me in the slightest03:52
Hrdwr_BoBbut as a 'user'03:52
Hrdwr_BoBI didn't expect to be unable to use the machine once I VNCed in03:52
Keybukooh, angry-daniels03:57
jdublamont, elmo, Kamion: did you guys get my process mails?03:58
=== Keybuk remembers how disappointing that was last time though
danielsimake heisenbugs :\03:58
=== Keybuk pats daniels on the head
elmojdub: process mails?04:15
jdubelmo: about packages from ftp to the archive?04:17
jdubif you have no idea, it was probably killed by your spaminator04:17
elmojdub: no, don't think so04:17
jdubi'll resend without using my dead domain ;)04:18
jdubelmo: just bounced it04:19
jdubelmo: 'Package source to archive walkthrough + timing'04:19
elmoyeah, got it this time04:21
elmoyou know the normal queue -> archive stuff has little bearing on the actual release mechanics, right?04:21
elmobut anyway, I'll answer you in email04:21
mdzok, either this drive is failing in a _very_ peculiar way, or all my CD-RW media is fucked, or cdrecord and/or cd writing under Linux just blows04:48
mdzI can burn DVDs fine04:48
mdzat ~21x CD speed04:49
mdzand yet cdrecord bitches endlessly about buffer underruns04:49
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=== glyph is away: movies (or something)
danielscan someone please try building xfree86 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu15? sources are on chinstrap:~daniels05:13
danielsi can't get x to build here for love nor money05:13
Keybukdaniels: I'll do it for love and money05:17
danielsi'll buy you a beer05:21
danielswrong dan :P05:21
Keybuksince when do you buy people drinks? :)05:21
danielsi've bought a few people drinks05:21
danielsKeybuk:  it got past makeafle,you won05:32
danielsif it got past making makefiles, you won05:32
jdubis the sources.list typo known in sounder8?05:37
jdubno slash on the universe lines05:37
=== jdub files bug
mdzno, I didn't notice05:38
mdzI only used the main/restricted lines05:38
jdubwhat should that be filed against?05:38
tvon|x31where is a slash missing?05:38
jdubdeb http://ftp.no-name-yet.comno-name-yet warty main restricted universe05:38
mdzbetween 'com' and 'no-name-yet'05:39
justdavethat reminds me, I burned a sounder8 earlier and forgot about it :)  probably still in the burner05:39
tvon|x31Is my computer the only one that beeps annoyingly when pcmcia starts/stops?05:40
jdubmdz: 1094, not sure who/what it should be on05:41
mdzjdub: assign it to fabbione05:41
mdzhe's doing those changes05:41
mdzjdub: yep05:41
jdubmdz: what's his bugzilla login?05:41
mdzjdub: 'fabbione' in the box will do the job05:42
jduboh, handy05:42
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bdalejdub: sudo with timeout is even more annoying...05:45
bdalejdub: of course, it depends on which timeout we're talking about05:45
elmobdale: I think he means zero timeout which ours has/had05:46
mdzand I really think we should re-enable it05:46
mdz(the default timeout of 15 minutes or whatever)05:47
bdalemy packaging uses --with-timeout=15 --with-password-timeout=005:48
mdzand we add timestamp_timeout=0 to sudoers05:51
danielsKeybuk: how's the build?05:51
mdzit seemed harmless enough at the time, but turned out to be very annoying05:51
mdzjdub: care to propose on the list that we revert it?05:52
mdzjdub: I'll back you up :-)05:52
=== jdub glares at mdz.
mdzjdub: or, just upload base-config, fixing the slash typo and this at the same time05:52
jdubthat's okay, i'll just be the fallguy asking first, not shooting first05:53
elmoeh, who asked for it to be 0?05:53
jduboh, i'll throw in the abiword/gnumeric thing too05:53
Keybukdaniels: whirring ... got tripped by the lack of an .orig.tar.gz <g>05:53
danielsheh :)05:54
danielshas it passed make Makefiles?05:54
mdzelmo: colin and martin, as I recall05:54
danielsfor me, it bombs out in xc/lib/font/X-TrueType because imake seemingly doesn't create BIG5HKSCS's Makefile05:54
=== bdale thinks using group sudo or NOPASSWD in sudoers are more likely to lead to happiness than setting the timeout to zero, unless there's something weird being done?
mdzbdale: the idea is to add the initial user to sudoers, and use gksudo to let them run GUI admin applications05:57
Keybuk/usr/bin/make -C build-tree/xc WORLDOPTS="" IMAKE_DEFINES="-DXFree86CustomVersion='\"Ubuntu 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu15 20040908035354 scott@netsplit.com\"'" World > logs/make_world.build.log 2>&105:57
Keybukis what it's doing now05:57
danielstail -f logs/make_world.build.log?05:58
Keybuklooks like a make clean05:58
danielshopefully that fails05:58
bdalemdz: oh, I see.  hrm.05:59
KeybukI think it's "including" now05:59
bdalemdz: so you're trying to get one password typing per login session as a behavior?05:59
mdzbdale: with a password, of course05:59
mdzbdale: no, I think the argument was that it would be confusing when it prompted for the password sometimes and not other times06:00
danielsKeybuk: fuck06:00
mdzthere was also a vague security question, but I think I successfully defended that one06:00
bdalemdz: oh, right, silly me, that makes it always prompt for a password, doesn't it... ick06:00
mdzbdale: no big deal in the GUI, but very irriatting on the command line06:00
danielsthat's what 'sudo zsh' is for ;)06:01
mdzthat entirely misses the point of sudo06:01
bdalesudo su -06:01
KeybukWriting 192 characters into file 'UTB___12-ISO8859-4.bdf'.06:01
Keybukrm -f UTB___14-ISO8859-4.bdf06:01
Keybukperl  ../../../fonts/util/ucs2any.pl UTB___14.bdf ../../../fonts/util/map-ISO8859-4 ISO8859-406:01
bdalemdz: true06:01
Keybukdaniels: sudo -s06:01
Keybukbdale: sudo -s06:01
Uclintusudo -s -H, if you're going to miss the point of sudo06:02
KeybukUclintu: how does that miss the point?06:02
mdzsudo -s without -H gets a bit weird06:02
Keybukmdz: I quite like it <g>  it uses the right arch, tla, aptitude, etc. options06:02
Keybukvi, emacs, etc. work right06:03
mdzKeybuk: it also writes files into your homedir AS ROOT :-P06:03
fabbionemorning guys06:04
fabbionejdub: #1094, cdrom install or netinstall?06:04
fabbionein the latter i get the /06:04
fabbionebah i started not to sleep again..06:05
jdubfabbione: cdrom, custom (probably the same for desktop)06:05
Keybukdaniels: is building shit now06:07
danielsKeybuk: sigh, thanks06:08
danielsyou can kill it ifyou like06:08
fabbionejdub: with the tests i did i always got the /, but i will check again later today06:10
Keybukdaniels: I've never built X before ... I'm going to leave it running06:11
Keybukso one day, I can tell my grandkids, "I built X once"06:11
jdubKeybuk: and they'll say, "grandpoppy, we do that every day when our computer boots gentoo 3000"06:12
jamesh3000.2, you mean.06:13
Hrdwr_BoBI hope to god that in 60 years we've built something better than X06:16
jameshHrdwr_BoB: current X is already better than X of 5 years ago.06:17
Hrdwr_BoBthis is true06:17
Hrdwr_BoBbut if in 60 years, we can't come up with something that totally changes computing as we know it, that's pretty poor06:18
=== jdub coughs... BINARY, WE STILL HAVE BINARY
jdubsuch a crime06:18
Hrdwr_BoBjdub, though I consider still using base10 a worse crime :/06:19
jameshbinary could be trivially extended to include an "unknown" state06:19
jameshlike SQL does.06:19
fabbioneKeybuk: why are you rebuilding X?06:23
Keybukfabbione: because daniels smiled sweetly06:24
danielsit's OK, I think the problem is a badly screwed-up orig06:39
fabbioneOH GREAT06:39
fabbionegdm killed X06:39
=== fabbione kicks gdm
danielsfabbione: huzzah06:39
fabbionea gdm restart killed X and gdm didn't restart06:40
fabbionedaniels: can you reproduce it for me?06:47
fabbionejust do a gdm restart within X06:47
fabbioneand it should kill X06:47
fabbionejdub: bug fixed06:48
fabbionedaniels: can you send me the diff between ubuntu14 and ubuntu15?06:59
fabbionedaniels: please just keep me in the loop.. it makes my life easier to keep track of the changes06:59
danielsfabbione: sure07:01
danielsfabbione: it's pretty small - fix up the link, and add a patch to build XKB with -DNOISY07:01
danielsso it'll actually log faults07:02
danielsfabbione: um, I can't reproduce that gdm problem btw07:02
fabbionei can without any problems on 2 machines07:02
fabbionewell i need to go and talk to the electrician for a rad plant in the new house07:05
danielsfabbione: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~daniels/xfree86-ubuntu14-to-15.diff07:07
mdzfabbione: works fine for me07:12
=== lamont falls into bed.
justdaveheh, the wifi status icon looks like it was blatently stolen from a motorola cellphone :)07:16
justdavenah, it's a little different.  just enough to get away with it :)  looks nice though07:19
danielslifeless: why is arch broken !!AGAIN!! for debrix, and can you fix it?08:29
daniels(committing --patch-14)08:29
danielsError calling `vu_lstat' for "/home/daniels/x/debrix/debrix/{arch}/,,inode-sigs/daniel@fooishbar.org--2004%debrix--devel--0.1--patch-8" (No such file or directory)08:29
danielsPANIC: I/O error08:29
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~/x/debrix/debrix% ls {arch}/,,inode-sigs 08:29
danielsdaniel@fooishbar.org--2004%debrix--devel--0.1--patch-10  daniel@fooishbar.org--2004%debrix--devel--0.1--patch-1308:29
danielsdaniel@fooishbar.org--2004%debrix--devel--0.1--patch-11  daniel@fooishbar.org--2004%debrix--devel--0.1--patch-1408:30
danielsdaniel@fooishbar.org--2004%debrix--devel--0.1--patch-12  daniel@fooishbar.org--2004%debrix--devel--0.1--patch-908:30
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~/x/debrix/debrix% 08:30
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lifelessdaniels: give me some context.08:30
lifelesswhat command had you just run?08:31
lifelessdo you have a revision library?08:31
lifelessis this a lical archive or a remote one?08:31
jdubhave you eaten fish today?08:31
jdub* postinst configure most-recently-configured-version 08:31
jdub^ that being the one before the currently-being-configured-version?08:32
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lifelessdaniels: and where you doing two things to the same working dir from different shells ?08:32
mdzjdub: correct08:34
mdzjdub: on an upgrade, it'll be the version being upgraded from08:34
mdzpitti: morning08:34
jdubah, good08:34
jdubooh, new folder icons are nice08:42
jdub'nacht mdz08:43
danielslifeless: tla commit -s '...', yes, local, used to live on my laptop, but rsync -a'ed across08:50
danielsmdz: you can't sleep yet, i was going to ask you if we had any plans to support em64t08:50
lifelessdaniels: try again08:52
jameshdaniels: buy an EM64T and see if it works ...08:53
danielslifeless: now patch 9 isn't found; should i just hit this commit in a for loop?08:53
danielsoh fuck08:53
danielsthe commit succeeded, despite the 'OH SHIT SON THATS AN ERROR' uppercase SCREAMING ERROR MESSAGES at the end of the ATTEMPT TO COMMIT08:54
lifelessoh, rotfl.08:54
daniels    merge from js bringing in new X.Org and DMX sync08:54
daniels    merge from js bringing in new X.Org and DMX sync08:54
daniels    merge from js bringing in new X.Org and DMX sync08:54
lifelesswhat tla are you running ?08:54
danielsha ha ha! tee hee! i love tla!08:54
lifelesshmm, thats v. strange then.08:55
danielsback to the wget08:57
pittilamont: still here?09:11
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pittisabdfl: Good morning!09:21
pittisabdfl: Say, could you life with having icons at the desktop for automounted volumes? (See sounder ML)09:21
sabdflpitti: no thanks09:22
pittisabdfl: icon in the panel?09:23
sabdfli don't like the mac metaphor at all09:23
sabdflpitti: yes, much better09:23
sabdflnotifier for automounted items09:23
pittisabdfl: IMHO this is the only other sane approach09:23
sabdflsingle item, click it and it shows a list of all automounted items09:23
pitticlick to the item to umount it09:24
sabdflif you have two items mounted?09:24
pitticlick on the particular list item, not on the icon, I meant09:24
pittiokay, then we should grind the wheels to get that implemented09:25
sabdflwould it be more important to get that done, or fix rc bugs?09:26
jdubsabdfl: icons on the desktop does not imply dragging to the trash :)09:26
sabdfljdub: understood, nonetheless, we've already had this discussion for warty09:26
pittisabdfl: IMHO its quite important to have an obvious and safe unmounting possibility, but bug fixing is important as well. No precedence on my side09:27
jdubsabdfl: this is not important enough to write code or diverge for09:27
pittisabdfl: since I'm quite unfamiliar with gnome programming, I would rather concentrate on bug fixing and security review and have e.g. seb or npmccallum do this thing09:27
sabdflpitti: if mdz is happy for you to do this then fine by me, but i think the team as a whole should be rc-focused09:27
sabdflpitti: agreed, and seb needs to do other things first09:28
pittisabdfl: okay, then bugs get highest prio; I think it is not the end of the world if we don't manage this icon in time09:28
pittisabdfl: because now we can umount in the computer window, so at least there is _one_ possibility09:29
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debianistmorning all10:14
pittidebianist: Morning!"10:14
debianistmorning pitti 10:16
fabbionehey pitti 10:17
fabbionehi debianist 10:17
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pittifabbione: Morning fabio!10:20
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-6-141.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
=== fabbione kicks the bank
fabbionehey seb10:22
seb128hello fabbione 10:24
debianisthey fabbione10:26
debianistand seb12810:26
seb128hi debianist 10:27
ddaaHi folks.10:28
debianisthi ddaa10:28
debianistso, does the daily symlink is supposed to point to cd 8 currently?10:29
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fabbionedebianist: no, dailys are not sounders10:47
fabbionedailys are build every single day10:48
fabbionethere might be a moment in which a daily matches the sounder10:48
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=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
OskuroHey, I just installed Sounder 8.10:53
OskuroX started up ok, but using the wrong resolution, so the desktop was bigger than the display.10:54
=== pitti curses at hal; this ding lies
OskuroChanging the resolution the biggest one configured with ctrl-alt-+ worked ok10:55
seb128Oskuro: is the ca translation ok in the panel ? 10:55
Oskurolet me see10:55
fabbioneOskuro: thanks... will fix soon10:55
Oskurofabbione: known issue?10:56
danielsOskuro: arse. are you using an lcd?10:59
Oskurodaniels: nope, crt mon10:59
fabbionedaniels: we need to kill the resolution sort thingy11:00
danielsfabbione: no11:00
fabbionedaniels: i have the same problem here as everybody else11:00
fabbioneor kill the "biggest" one11:00
danielsfabbione: most monitors i've seen have an optimum resolution, and n+1, which is the highest it goes, which looks like arse11:00
danielswe need to kill the sorting for the lcd, which i'll take care of11:00
fabbionedaniels: dude.. read carefully what Oskuro wrote11:01
danielssure, it doesn't work for every case11:01
danielsi personally think it's the best thing to do, however11:01
fabbionedaniels: we just need to kill the highest resolution probed on crt11:01
fabbionethat's what we were talking about11:02
fabbioneor otherwise use the highest resolution probed11:02
fabbioneeither one or the other11:02
HrdwrBoBit worked for me.. detected 1800x144011:03
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HrdwrBoBand ran it in 1600x1200, with 1800 selectable by R&R11:03
=== sto [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu
danielsfabbione: what's so dangerous about having it at the end of the list?11:04
fabbionedaniels: it's not dangerous, X uses the first entry in mode as resolution, but the highest one as size for virtual desktop11:07
fabbionedaniels: that is rather annoying11:07
fabbionedaniels: i also explained that to the mailing list a while ago11:07
danielsfabbione: er, how's it ending up with a virtual desktop size?11:07
danielshm, which thread?11:07
danielsthat's complete arse, yeah11:07
fabbionedaniels:      66 Aug 25 To: sounder@lists.no-name-yet.com    (5507) . about X resolutions on non-laptops (xresprobe)                       11:08
danielsfabbione: got it. yeah, that's total arse. i'll upload a new xresprobe later tonight, 'kay?11:13
fabbionedaniels: sure..11:13
fabbionei wasn't rushing...11:13
fabbionei need to work on another thing atm...11:13
danielsdoes need to be fixed tho11:13
fabbionedaniels: yup11:13
danielson my 8500, i'm seeing slight, increasing, graphical corruption with use of render11:14
danielsthom: wake up, kid11:15
Oskurodaniels: ok, thanks11:15
danielswhat is up with my X builds failing??11:16
Oskurooh daniels, ping-libburn11:16
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HcEgod morning Mithrandir :)11:16
seb128Oskuro: the ca translation is ok ?11:16
Mithrandirhi hce11:17
Oskuroseb128: sure, sorry11:17
seb128cool, np :)11:17
thomdaniels: i'm awake, dumbass11:18
seb128morning thom 11:18
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
seb128morning rburton :)11:18
rburtonmorning seb12811:20
jdubyo rburton 11:22
rburtonhey jdub11:23
=== rburton tries to get to the bottom of the sticky super key thing
seb128jdub: !!11:24
seb128jdub: what's missing on the desktop plan before facing the 2.8 tarball releases ? :)11:25
HrdwrBoBis ubuntu supposed to detect my scsi CDROM and load the drivers for it?11:36
debianistOskuro : that thing with the resolution happened to me also, though it was rather quick and slick fixing it using the screen resolution resizer11:41
Oskurodebianist: but is that remembered the next time you log in?11:48
Oskurodebianist: and doesn't work for all users I guess11:48
debianistOskuro : yes it does, for the other folks - it's ok to use the highest reolution possible, just make the virutal desktop use the same size :)11:50
debianistcan it be made to match virtual and physical desktop sizes?11:50
debianistfabbione : for serving the testing best, would you recommend testing a daily or the sounder 8 ?11:53
Mithrandirthey should be fairly equal today11:54
fabbionedebianist: both?11:54
fabbionedebianist: but usually after 1 or 2 days a sounder is released, you should go for dailys11:55
debianistfabbione : k, sounds fair enough11:55
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debianistwho's in charge of desktop layout? I really like the new "Add to panel" big, intuitive highly readabel window11:56
cef*sigh* another MS web browsing patent11:59
debianistcef : they patented that?12:00
cefparts of web browsing12:01
ceftabbing between links on a page is now apparently patented.. they applied back in '97, using art from '94. only just got approved *sigh*12:02
seb128debianist: "in charge of desktop layout" ? The new add dialog is from Vincent Untz IIRC12:02
debianistcef : :((12:03
debianisthow would I add ubuntu's apt sources to .list ?12:04
seb128vi /etc/apt/sources.list ?12:04
HrdwrBoBdebianist: they're in the wiki12:05
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
rburtonmailto: links in ephy are not working for me12:08
rburtonshould i file a bug, or is this just me?12:08
seb128gnome-open http//www.google.co12:09
seb128gnome-open http//www.google.com12:09
seb128does it work ?12:09
seb128gnome-open email@...12:09
rburton$ gnome-open  mailto:foo@bar.com12:09
rburtonError showing url: There was an error launching the default action command associated with this location.12:09
=== debianist checking usb drive support
rburtonah, fixed it12:10
rburtongnome-default-apps was setting evolution-1.412:10
=== debianist PQI flash drive mounted and nautilus popped ok
seb128ok, please open a bug so I remind to change the default mailer :)12:11
rburtonthis might be an old preference of mine12:12
thomseb128: fixed gconf yet? :-)12:14
seb128thom: doing a sounder 8 installation right now12:15
seb128thom: no way to get a system installed with daily iso in 2 previous days12:15
danielsthom: can you please throw me ddcprobe output from your desktop?12:18
danielsHrdwrBoB: people still have those? :P12:19
debianistwhat is the rationale behind keeping the desktop so empty and clean?12:19
danielsbecause it's better than having it cluttered and messy?12:20
HrdwrBoBdaniels: I  have one :P12:20
debianistdaniels : is there a way to enlarge desktop icons and fonts in a sweep ? like in one click set up? (rather than working each icon and stretching it)12:23
HrdwrBoBdebianist: options, default zoom12:24
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=== Mithrandir uploads a new mozilla-thunderbird
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fabbionethom: i am checking again gdm if we can make restart | reload)12:34
thomfabbione: reload doesn't do anything useful if it's not running/12:34
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fabbionei have an idea12:35
fabbionelet's switch to kubuntu and use kde12:35
=== fabbione runs away at light speed
debianistfabbion : huh? :)12:36
=== thom machine guns fabio
=== Mithrandir grabs some ICBMS and fires them at .dk
=== HrdwrBoB pages friends in denmark
=== fabbione loads a battery of sodomotrons and points them back to .uk, .no and .restoftheworld
HrdwrBoBon another note, I was reading the warty wiki and I think bz2 is such an incredible CPU hog that it's not worth it for 10%12:39
=== pitti finds something to eat
HrdwrBoBlaw of diminishing returns and all that12:39
fabbioneHrdwrBoB: same comments have been done in the last conference12:40
MithrandirCPU isn't as much a problem as disk speed, IME.12:41
MithrandirCPU is cheap.12:41
thomtime for the amd64 daily12:41
=== fabbione is on i386 daily crack
HrdwrBoBI download gzip kernel sources, because I can have them downloaded and unzipped quicker than I can the bz212:42
HrdwrBoBeven though it downloads quicker12:42
fabbioneHrdwrBoB: that's the same reason X switched back from .bz2 to .gz12:42
debianistpitti : bon appetit12:42
fabbione(at least the debian packages)12:42
Mithrandir1:47,79 (gzip) vs 1:27,62 (bz2) here, for download + uncompressing (not untarring)12:49
seb128pitti: here ?12:53
debianistahh what a great bw on the ftp server..I am upgrading at my maaximum connection speed :)12:53
debianistdo we gtk-engines on the ubuntu rept. ?12:56
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debianisti can't unmount my usb drive, there isn't no icon or anything else to work it, besides the nautilus window which I close ages ago..01:08
Kamiondaniels: we've got kernels for em64t (-amd64-xeon or some such), and base-installer should pick them automatically01:08
Kamiondaniels: whether it'll actually work is something I can't speak to01:08
HrdwrBoBdebianist: this was covered recently, check out the mailing list01:08
danielsKamion: rad01:09
Kamionjdub: I did actually get your process mail, I was just temporarily too busy executing the process to answer it :-)01:13
pittiseb128: I'm back01:15
=== reformed [~ben@ppp2C13.dsl.pacific.net.au] has joined #Ubuntu
thomamd64 looks pretty good here01:15
thombesides the framebuffer horkage01:15
Mithrandirthom: fb horkage?01:16
fabbionei386 looks good too01:16
fabbionegdm sucks01:16
fabbionebut that's another problem ;)01:16
thomMithrandir: in the installer01:17
thomMithrandir: so some languages don't work right01:17
fabbionethom: what about makeing the init script slightly more clever.. so that reload will start gdm if it is not running, and let base-config call reload?01:17
thomfabbione: seems reasonable to me01:18
pittiseb128: I will eat my pizza now, returning in 15 minutes01:18
seb128pitti: "Go to the Desktop folder" -> de ? and "Ubuntu Help and Documentation" -> de ? please :)01:18
seb128pitti: ok, no hurry, latter01:18
thomfabbione: i'll test and do01:18
Mithrandirthom: weird utf8-langs or normal, sane ones?01:18
fabbionethom: ok.. otherwise i can do it..01:19
fabbioneup to you01:19
thomMithrandir: utf-801:19
thomfabbione: *shrug*01:19
Mithrandirit's not an amd64-specific problem?01:19
thomMithrandir: it is01:19
Mithrandirhm, ok01:19
pittiseb128: what do you mean by "go"? Open a window? or change the directory in a browser?01:19
MithrandirI'll take a look, then01:19
fabbionethom: i just finished with freenet6.. so i got a bit of spare time...01:19
pittiseb128: Help&Doc -> "Ubuntu-Hilfe und Dokumentation"01:19
thomgo on then01:19
fabbionethom: ok01:20
seb128pitti: same as "Go to the Home folder" and "Go to the Documents folder" that you have already translated01:20
fabbionefood first01:20
seb128pitti: ie: open a window on the folder01:20
pittiseb128: ah, "Den Desktop-Ordner anzeigen"01:20
seb128ok, thanks01:20
pittiseb128: not literally, but sounds much better than "go"01:20
seb128good pizza :)01:20
pittiseb128: I did not start eating it yet :-) But I will do now.01:21
rburtonoh my01:21
rburtonis this a .ics button in bugzilla i see before me01:21
rburtonoooohhhhhh that is good01:23
=== rburton needs to change pants
=== debianist [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu
debianistfixed sound problem. apparently a post install reboot did it, and the gnome mixer is superb :)01:27
thomwhat the bloody hell is a .ics?01:33
=== daniels pokes thom.
danielsfabbione: don't joke about kubuntu, i'm serious01:34
thomdaniels: it's a serious joke, you mean? :P01:34
thomdaniels: sup?01:34
danielsthom: bah!01:34
pittiseb128: did you already upload? I'd like to change two translations01:34
danielsthom: a joke like 'i'll take you to fabric on friday'01:34
danielsthom: could you please email me ddcprobe output from your desktop (specifically, for the lcd)?01:34
thomi did, already01:35
pittiseb128: the bubble help of "Home" should be "Den persnlichen Ordner anzeigen"01:35
seb128pitti: I'll upload in 1-2 hours, so you have time for changes01:36
danielsthom: er01:36
pittiseb128: I think the umlauts in IRC are broken, I'll send you a mail01:36
seb128pitti: no, that's fine01:36
danielsthom: take a card, dude01:36
pittiseb128: the Umlauts work?01:36
daniels(eithr that or my mail's broken)01:36
seb128pitti: yes, my xchat is in UTF-8 charset01:37
pittiseb128: Great! To make the translations consistent, I would like to change the previous two translations:01:37
pittiseb128: Home -> "Den persnlichen Ordner anzeigen"01:37
=== savs [~savs@jicbioinc1.ext.uea.ac.uk] has joined #ubuntu
seb128msgid "Go to the Home folder"01:37
seb128msgstr "Den persnlichen Ordner anzeigen"01:37
pittiseb128: Desktop -> "Den Desktop-Ordner anzeigen"01:38
seb128ok, done01:38
pittiseb128: Documents -> "Den Dokumenten-Ordner anzeigen"01:38
pittiseb128: this does not mix up go/display/whatever01:38
pittiseb128: thanks a lot!01:38
seb128thanks to you for the translations :)01:39
pittiseb128: np01:39
danielsahr, seven minutes ago01:39
danielsthom: your mta needs to be quicker to retry 450s ;)01:39
=== lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu
danielslulu: yo :)01:40
luluhowdi! :o)01:40
thomi'm not sending you mail if you're greylisting :P01:40
danielsthom: i'm not greylisting, fd.o is01:41
danielsthom: if you're really desperate, daniel@the.real.fooishbar.org goes straight to tycho01:41
thomi'm not sending them email then, either01:41
danielsscore! i'd been wondering how to do that01:41
HrdwrBoBmy mail is worse, it's hosted on a windows box :(01:41
danielsrun by you, worse luck ;)01:42
HrdwrBoBhaha, not by my choice, and not really :(01:42
Kamionthom: oh, hey, it's just occurred to me why the framebuffer might be horked on amd6401:42
thomdaniels: resent01:43
danielsthom: thanks mate01:44
Kamionthom: I assume it requires roughly the same setup as on i386? vga16fb/vesafb module, that kind of thing?01:44
Kamionand the fbcon module01:44
thomdaniels: if you wish me to rerun, the output is easy:01:44
thom12:42 ~% sudo ddcprobe01:44
thomVESA BIOS Extensions not detected.01:44
Kamionthom: well, that's only done on i386 at the moment ;)01:45
thomKamion: heh01:45
Kamionthom: what does 'dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_CPU' say on amd64?01:45
pittiseb128: I just see that "About Ubuntu..." is still untranslated. I though that I did it, but it does not seem to be applied. It should be "ber Ubuntu..."01:45
seb128pitti: I forgotten to apply 2 strings in the previous upload, that's already fixed but thanks01:46
danielsthom: ... huh? what sort of card do you have?01:46
thomdaniels: amd64 ;-)01:47
danielsthom: oh, sweet mother of god01:47
danielsthom: feel like connecting it to the i386 and ddcprobing it? :)01:47
thomno, since you have the results01:47
thomand that means rebooting01:48
Mithrandir: tfheen@golem ~ > sudo ddcprobe 01:49
MithrandirVESA BIOS Extensions not detected.01:49
Mithrandirthat's a ATI Radeon 9200SE01:49
danielsMithrandir: ... on amd6401:49
thomdaniels: that's what happens on amd6401:50
danielsyeah, i don't really care about amd6401:50
=== Mithrandir whacks daniels
danielsunless someone feels like getting ddc working properly on it01:50
danielsMithrandir: buy me one and suddenly not only will I care, it'll become really well-supported01:50
MithrandirI can get you an account on my home box?01:50
danielswhat I want is the output of ddcprobe for common desktop LCDs, so I can make xresprobe detect them right and thus use the top resolution, not n-1, so your displays don't look like arse01:50
MithrandirI'm not using an LCD01:51
danielsjdub: hmm, how do we configure this stuff? i see no advanced menu or capplet01:51
danielsMithrandir: oh, right. well, wanna give me root? i hoope you don't mind the occasional lockup :)01:51
Mithrandirdaniels: it's just a desktop box, so I wouldn't really mind you locking up the box.01:52
Mithrandirdaniels: and please don't poke too much about in my media and stuff, please?01:52
jdubdaniels: what stuff?01:52
Mithrandirif so, I can give you root, if you fix ddcprobe, no problems.01:52
seb128jdub: dude you've not replied to my question some hours ago :)01:52
danielsjdub: the freedb stuff that was mentioned in #g-h01:52
danielsMithrandir: um yeah, I'm fine with that; I don't really have anything else I'd be doing on it other than compiling ddcprobe in my ~ and testing the result01:53
danielsMithrandir: that would be great, thanks01:53
thomdaniels: but anyway, ddcprobe output you have is for my lcd01:53
danielsthom: still not coming through, ho hum01:54
danielsthom: it'll be there eventually, i suspect (wanna sudo runq?) 01:54
OskuroKamion: hmm, I saw a few "de Ubuntu" typos in d-i and base-config in my install01:54
thomnah, you chose to greylist, you can suffer01:54
danielsthom: the.real.fooishbar.org isn't greylisting, and i'm not even seeing a connection01:54
Kamionrootskel (0.84ubuntu4) warty; urgency=low01:55
Kamion  * Install S33framebuffer-module-linux-i386 on amd64 too.01:55
Kamion -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@canonical.com>  Wed,  8 Sep 2004 12:46:27 +010001:55
Kamionthom: let me know if that works; may take a day or two to make it into dailies01:55
KamionOskuro: mail me with where they are, if you would01:55
OskuroKamion: sure, I'll fetch the Ubuntu d-i source01:57
Mithrandirdaniels: ok, mail sent.01:57
danielsMithrandir: thanks dude01:58
Mithrandirmy pleasure01:58
Mithrandirit's on my dsl, so the connection sometimes goes down if the router freaks out, if so, the hostname will most likely change01:58
Mithrandirbut I'll tell you, then.01:59
lamontpitti: waking up at 0530 these days means going to bed a bit earlier...01:59
pittilamont: no problem :-) Good morning!01:59
jdubKamion: thanks for that mail! :)01:59
Mithrandirlamont: mozilla-thunderbird built on amd64?01:59
pittilamont: what on earth are you doing right after midnight?01:59
jdubdaniels: the only thing that uses freedb is the cd player02:00
jdubdaniels: and you can get to the freedb config thingy from it02:00
jdubseb128: what was that?02:00
danielsjdub: ah, right02:00
danielsjdub: musicbrainz isn't seeming to be doing anything from s-j, i'll check it out later02:00
seb128jdub: <seb128> jdub: what's missing on the desktop plan before facing the 2.8 tarball releases ? :)02:00
danielsthom: am not a fascist02:00
danielsthom: ... you've got a 9800?02:00
jdubseb128: will send a mail tonight02:00
seb128jdub: I'm working on a panel upload to fix some strings, update translation and add the trashapplet again02:00
HrdwrBoBdaniels: I'm sure bruce would also give you an account02:00
seb128jdub: ok, thanks02:01
jdubseb128: oh, while you're there, can you make the clock applet run 'gksudo time-admin'?02:01
jdubseb128: (warning: it checks the path before displaying the menu item)02:01
pittilamont: actually I wanted to ask you about postgresql 7.4.5-3. According to the logs it built correctly on m68k, but the package did not go to the archive; so it cannot migrate to sarge02:02
seb128jdub: the path ?02:02
jdubseb128: it checks to see if the program is in the path, so unfortunately, we can't just change the 'time-admin' string to 'gksudo time-admin' :-)02:03
lamontMithrandir: try adding build-depend: gcc-3.4 :-(02:03
jdublamont: did you get my mail about archive process?02:03
=== jdub has had some stupid mail probs, only got one bounce from you, though
lamontjdub: yeah - and it was To: elmo, so I was going to let him answer it.. :-)02:04
lamontjust got one mail from you on the subject recently, though.02:04
Mithrandirlamont: AAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH.  Something fucks me over and _EATS_ my build-deps changes.02:04
Mithrandirlamont: it's a conspiracy, I'm sure.02:04
lamontalways check for debian/control.in :-(02:05
Mithrandirthere's none02:05
fabbionethom: can you apply the itaglish / english filter?02:06
fabbione* GNOME Display Manager is not running: trying to load it.02:09
fabbionethe "trying to load it" really sucks02:09
fabbionei can't come up with anything better..02:09
HrdwrBoBattempting to restart it02:09
fabbionetrying to start it.02:09
MithrandirI. am. stupid.02:10
danielsHrdwrBoB: hm, true dat02:10
danielsHrdwrBoB: reckon he'd give me his machine for a few days? :)02:10
Mithrandirlamont: new version uploaded02:13
fabbioneah hummmm02:15
fabbionethom: there is another small problem.. base-config calls all the possible display managers with restart02:15
HrdwrBoBdaniels: heh, possibly, maybe if you put him in stasis02:16
Kamionfabbione: what's the problem with that? (bear with me, I missed it in scrollback)02:17
fabbioneKamion: the problem is that gdm restart inside X, kills X02:17
Kamionthat's not a problem for base-config though02:18
fabbioneKamion: so if you run base-config new inside X, even for testing.. it will kill you out02:18
fabbioneKamion: solution: fix gdm init script so that reload will load gdm if not running and change base-config to use relaod instead of restart02:18
Kamionfabbione: don't do that then :-)02:19
Kamionfabbione: I don't think this is a bug, really ...02:19
fabbionewell.. a user can run base-config inside X02:19
fabbioneand he doesn't know he will be kicked out as soon as gdm/whatever will restart02:20
fabbionei think it's a bug02:20
Kamionbase-config does all kinds of stuff, people who do 'base-config new' deserve whatever they get02:20
HrdwrBoBhow many users do you think would do that?02:20
Kamion    cause the configuration of the service to be reloaded without actually stopping and restarting the service,02:20
Kamionplease don't "fix" this, it really is a don't do that then02:21
fabbioneKamion: that's not what we are doing02:21
fabbioneKamion: i am not stopping the service02:21
Kamionbut you're restarting it02:21
fabbionei start it if it is not running02:21
Kamionrestarting includes starting02:21
fabbionerestart = stop -> start02:21
Kamionalso if you change this you have to change xdm and kdm (maybe wdm?) in universe too02:22
KamionI think you and I are the only people likely to run 'base-config new', and we should do so from outside X02:23
fabbionelet me check what xdm and kdm do02:23
UbuntuBoB*bing sounder 8 install time, tata02:23
KamionI really do not think this should change; 'base-config new' is fundamentally a dangerous thing to do on an existing system, and restarting X is a perfectly reasonable thing to do in that context02:24
fabbioneKamion: i don't remember if it was you. or someone else that told me: "never never never do any assumption"02:24
Kamionif users run it with new, they'll have much worse problems02:24
Kamionit wasn't me02:24
fabbione(or similar)02:24
fabbionei think it was you when were discussing the apt-setup thingy.. but it's not important anyway02:25
Kamionthe base-config man page says 'If this is a fresh install onto a new debian system, the program receives "new" as its first argument.'02:25
KamionI'd have no objection to extending that to say 'any other use is at your own risk and may do unexpected things to your system'02:25
fabbioneok the behaviour is consistent across login manager02:26
fabbionebut it still sucks02:26
fabbioneso i guess i will have to accept that it is a non bug02:26
KamionI'd also have no objection to base-config new crashing out if $DISPLAY, personally02:26
Kamionor, if you like, just guarding that bit of code with if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ] 02:27
fabbioneKamion: if you run it as root (su -) DISPLAY is not set02:27
fabbioneso it would be almost a useless check02:27
Kamionremember we don't even support 'su -' by default in warty02:28
Kamionsudo preserves $DISPLAY by default; not useless in the least02:28
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneyeah.. that's why i said su -02:28
fabbioneand you can still do sudo su -02:29
fabbionethat's easy ;)02:29
Kamionyou're really trying to find ways to break your system at that point02:29
Kamionat some point we just have to accept that users who want to break their system will, and stop providing cotton wool02:29
fabbioneKamion: i think that's what we have to expect from users :P02:29
Kamionthis change just isn't worth the fork02:30
fabbioneKamion: you already convinced me at least 40 lines above.. bug is closed, upload deleted...02:30
Kamionspeaking of base-config bugs, if you run apt-setup again you get another bunch of lines in sources.list02:30
=== lamont takes the kids to school.
KamionI wonder if that needs to be 'apt-setup new' only02:32
fabbioneKamion: hmmm yeah02:32
fabbioneapt-setup new doesn't exist02:32
Kamion(or equivalent, I'm sure it isn't called in quite that way)02:32
fabbioneit only accept probe02:32
danielsWOO! I ROCK02:32
Kamionsure, yeah02:32
Kamionmaybe do it in lib/menu/apt-setup instead?02:32
danielsfabbione: ok, we're eliminating the top resolution completely now02:33
fabbionedaniels: yes.. and i am santa02:33
danielsfabbione: but we're doing it sanely - taking frequencies into account02:33
danielsso 02:33
fabbioneKamion: yes.. i was thinking already :-)02:33
daniels1600x1200 still shows on meine, because 85Hz gets knocked out, but 75Hz is still there02:33
thomfabbione: you have the belly for it :L-)02:33
Kamionafter apt-setup is run02:33
danielsthom: ouch!02:33
fabbionethom: true ...02:33
Kamionit doesn't feel quite right somehow though02:33
fabbioneKamion: no i was thinking that apt-setup (menu) accept the new option.02:34
Kamioncould also grep to see if it's already there and if so leave it out02:34
fabbioneKamion: i can just talk to apt-setup via TMPFILE02:34
KamionI'd prefer not to muck about with that, it was really really hard to merge base-config last I tried02:34
Kamionlook at how security.debian.org is added ...02:34
fabbioneKamion: yes i went trough security...02:35
fabbioneperhaps we can use a similar approach..02:35
elmo":L-)" is that thom with a broken nose? ;)02:35
Kamion# * already have it in sources.list, uncommented: don't ask about it02:35
Kamionif we lose the ", uncommented" condition, then it's easy ...02:36
danielscould everyone please try xresprobe 0.4 from http://people.no-name-yet.com/~daniels/xresprobe/ to check i haven't screwed anything else up?02:36
danielsit should use the top resolution on lcds, and an n-1 heuristic that takes frequency into account on crts02:36
=== james_ [~james@c211-30-13-146.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
Kamiondaniels: oh, by the way, do you still need the account on my laptop and the stuff in your home directory there?02:36
danielsKamion: er, nope, thanks02:37
elmokamion: hmm, the i386 and powerpc dailies failed, btw02:37
danielsKamion: last i checked, xresprobe was doing ok on your machine02:37
=== lucas_ [~lucas@cab-192023.calixo.net] has joined #ubuntu
danielsKamion: 'sides, it's not nearly as entertaining when I can't see you die of anxiety :)02:37
Kamionelmo: in what way? I haven't tried them yet02:37
Kamiondaniels: heh :)02:37
elmokamion: as in, they weren't built02:39
Kamionelmo: um, were so02:39
elmodebian-installer | 20040801ubuntu10.0.20040908 | amd64 | 7 hours old02:39
elmobah ^-- those dailies02:39
Kamioncjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/daily/current$ ls02:39
KamionMD5SUMS  report.html  warty-amd64-1.iso  warty-amd64-1.list  warty-i386-1.iso  warty-i386-1.list  warty-powerpc-1.iso  warty-powerpc-1.list02:39
Kamionoh, right02:39
fabbionegordian:~# xresprobe nv02:39
fabbioneRiddell: CPD-E500E02:40
fabbioneres: 1600x1200 1280x960 1280x1024 1280x1024 1152x864 1024x768 1024x768 1024x768 1024x768 1024x768 832x624 800x600 800x600 800x600 800x600 800x600 720x400 720x400 640x480 640x480 640x480 640x480 640x48002:40
fabbionefreq: 30-109 48-16002:40
fabbionewtf is that?02:40
Kamionelmo: any idea why?02:40
HrdwrBoBhm, with sounder CD 8, I get some isolinux messages on my screen02:40
Kamion$ sudo xresprobe ati02:40
Kamionid: Color LCD02:40
Kamionres: 1280x85402:40
HrdwrBoBthough I can't read them because as soon as they display, it reboots02:40
Mithrandirlamont: is the new m-thunderbird happier?02:40
spivdaniels: Seems to work.02:41
danielsfabbione: looks like we need another sort -u02:41
danielsspiv: ta. how's the tour?02:41
spivres: 1024x76802:41
spivdaniels: Good, so far.  It should be less hectic from now on, which will be a relief.02:42
elmokamion: hmm, never mind, looks like it built, there's some sort of buildd screw up.. I'll pester lamont02:42
danielsfabbione: wtf? could you please send me the output of sh -x /usr/share/xresprobe/ddcprobe.sh ?02:42
spivAnd hopefully my luggage will arrive soon.02:42
danielsspiv: rad02:42
danielseep. where are you?02:42
james_hey spiv. Just read about your troubles. Hope your luggage turns up.02:43
Kamionelmo: version number maybe?02:43
fabbionedaniels: the sort -unr that you call is useless02:44
spivdaniels: Thom's.02:44
danielsspiv: neat02:44
fabbionedaniels: sort uses \n as separator while the string has " "02:44
elmokamion: doesn't seem to be02:44
danielsthom: want to send spiv home with trance nation 2001? ;)02:44
danielsfabbione: on, arse02:44
elmokamion: it's got what looks like the w-b error for "ssh to the w-b host" died, but I'm sort of hoping it's not that02:44
Kamionelmo: eww02:45
fabbioneelmo: can we add security to base-config?02:45
thomdaniels: does the right thing for x4002:46
HrdwrBoBis 'Configure the Logical Volume Manager' supposed to take you back to the same screen you started on... because it does02:46
elmofabbione: yeah02:47
fabbioneelmo: ok thanks02:47
KamionHrdwrBoB: may be broken, file a bug and assign it to me please02:47
danielsthom: rad02:47
danielsfabbione: hm, any way to change this? i'd really prefer not to have to do space->newline, sort, then newline->space02:47
fabbionedaniels: man sort?02:48
Kamionjdub: what do you use spreadsheets for other than finance and science? :)02:48
Kamiondaniels: xargs?02:48
danielsfabbione: already done02:48
danielsKamion: hm02:48
Kamionxargs -n 1 is a pretty good space->newline, and you don't even have to go to much effort to do newline->space in shell02:49
danielswow, ddcprobe.sh now looks like complete shit02:51
thomdaniels: at least it's not you trying to write perl :-)02:52
Kamionjdub: so, what should I be using now for the isolinux splash on the CD?02:52
danielsthom: your activity reports should all include '* torment daniels'02:53
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
rburtondaniels: i'll torment you as well unless you tell me where your x.org debs are ;)02:54
=== rburton adds more albums to the SJ "torment-daneils" blacklist
danielsfabbione: new version02:55
danielsrburton: http://fooishbar.org/daniel/canonical-x/, i'm not even going to tell you what the deb line is because HERE BE DRAGONS, seriously02:55
danielsrburton: if you really, seriously need them, i'll upload all the source packages form my laptop; expecting those ones to even install is a bit of a stretch as i was in the middle of redoing all of them when i started exclusively working on warty concerns02:56
rburtoni wouldn't really say I "seriously need" them02:56
rburtonif those debs are likely to break, i'll wait02:56
fabbioneKamion: ok.. i am taking a lock on base-config.. do you have anything pending before i fix the apt lines?02:57
danielsif your machine works with xfree86, then stick with that02:57
thomdaniels: i don't have TN 200102:58
rburtondaniels: i keep on thinking about playing with composite et al, that is all02:58
thomi have Trance Nation02:58
thom(from 1999)02:58
danielsthom: oh, right02:58
danielsrburton: ah. probably best to just bust out jhbuild and build kdrive, then?02:58
thommixed by ferry corsten02:58
thom(and bright orange)02:58
danielsthom: i think 2001 was red02:59
rburtondaniels: yeah02:59
fabbionedaniels: looks ok here02:59
elmoI thought daniels was more into David Hasselhof.... music....02:59
Kamionfabbione: not for the moment, nope02:59
danielsfabbione: sensational02:59
rburtonelmo: don't mention that, it brings me out in hives02:59
=== ploum [~ploum@145-240.242.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
danielselmo: yeah, the hoff is my #1 love; dnb is just a secondary and prog trance a tertiary concern03:01
elmodaniels: have you seen Dodgeball, yet?03:02
danielselmo: ... no ...03:02
danielswasn't planning to03:02
rburtonhasselhof hasselhof hasselhof!03:02
rburtondaniels: its great03:02
danielsam I missing out on some Hoff action?03:02
rburtonhell yeah03:02
rburtondaniels: hoff and shatner are in it03:03
rburtonwhat more could you want?03:03
rburtonwell, apart from Dodgeball: The Musical03:03
danielsrburton: DUDE! no shit?03:04
danielsshatner's just one of the common people03:04
HrdwrBoBany reason why australia defaults to sydney?03:04
rburtondaniels: http://imdb.com/title/tt0364725/fullcredits03:04
HrdwrBoBdodgeball comes out here tomorrow03:05
rburtoni found it suprisingly good03:06
=== daniels is introducing his housemates to the Pingu Dance.
rburtondaniels: isn't that against some international law?03:06
danielsthey appreciate the humour03:07
fabbioneelmo: can you confirm: LINE="http://security.no-name-yet.com/no-name-yet $DIST-security $COMPONENTS" ?03:14
fabbioneKamion: do you think we should disable the test on security and just add the lines? 03:15
fabbioneKamion: or do the test and show the error if the connection didn't succeed?03:15
james_dudes, I'm about to try installing sounder on a box where there's a couple of other OSes. Is there anything I need to do to make it not hose my partition table etc?03:16
HrdwrBoBis loading toshiba_acpi the default and it expects to fail?03:17
HrdwrBoBjames_: don't select them and delete them :)03:17
james_Hrdwr_BoB: ok, last install I did was a nightly into qemu. I tried doing manual partitioning but it wouldn't let me. I assumed it was just a bad night.03:17
james_Hrdwr_BoB: will current sounder let me do manual partitioning?03:18
HrdwrBoBI was playing with it 5mins ago, seemed to be fine03:18
james_Hrdwr_BoB: ok great. Thanks.03:18
Kamionfabbione: we definitely need some conditions, because it wants to be commented-out on CD installs with no network connectivity and uncommented if the connection works03:18
HrdwrBoB* garauntee not actual garauntee03:18
Kamionjames_: manual partitioning is pretty safe because I always test it03:19
james_Kamion: ok, awesome.03:19
elmofabbione: err, we don't have a security alias yet03:19
james_incidently, the qemu installed decided it was a laptop. I wasn't sure if that was expected behaviour or not.03:19
HrdwrBoBjames_: if you mean it put the wifi and battery applets on there03:20
HrdwrBoBthat's the default, I questioned that also :)03:20
elmodo we want a separate security alias?03:20
fabbioneKamion: ok ..i will do a silence test and take appropriate action03:20
elmogiven it'll likely always be on the same machine03:20
fabbioneelmo: that's what i was asking before03:20
fabbioneelmo: if i could add security as we discussed...03:20
james_Hrdwr_BoB: I recall it saying something about laptop stuff when it booted. I've still got the hdd image around if you want me to be more precise.03:20
Kamionfabbione: I'd appreciate the code changing as little as possible, given aforementioned merge pain03:20
Kamionalthough admittedly translations are far more of an issue there03:21
elmofabbione: blah, I just forgot about  the security.nny.com bit - it does exist on ftp.nny.com03:21
fabbioneelmo: ok03:21
fabbioneKamion: yes i am trying to keep changes to minimal03:22
HrdwrBoBif we're trying to keep to one app per task, why is there mozilla and firefox?03:23
elmoanyone have any thoughts on whether we need the security alias?  I suppose we should have it on least-surprise principles, but whether we should default to it?03:24
HrdwrBoBit makes people feel happy03:25
HrdwrBoBthey think that security is special03:25
danielsfabbione: the other change in 0.4 which i think i forgot to changelog is that i cleaned up all the copyrights03:28
danielsfabbione: no changes, just putting them on all the files (novel!)03:29
=== jame1 [~james@c211-30-13-146.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
HrdwrBoBdaniels: woo X tried to make my 15" monitor run at 1024x768 at 75Hz03:32
danielsspiv: wow, just reading mary's trip wrap-up03:32
HrdwrBoB.. it can't do that03:32
danielsHrdwrBoB: sensational03:32
danielsHrdwrBoB: er, what?03:32
danielsHrdwrBoB: please email the output of ddcprobe to daniel@the.real.fooishbar.org03:33
fabbioneelmo: personally i would like to see security.nny.com03:37
fabbioneelmo: but it's just a psycological factor or reading "security" somewhere in my sources.list03:37
fabbioneelmo: tho it means absolutely nothing03:37
elmook, I'll request it from the ISP, it might not get done today though03:38
elmoso you can either wait till tomorrow or use ftp.nny.com and change it when we move to the final non-nny.com name03:38
fabbioneelmo: ok. and it will save me time unfuzzying all the translations again :)03:38
fabbioneelmo: i can wait... i need to test several other things in the meanwhile03:38
HrdwrBoBdaniels: sent03:40
HrdwrBoBbed time!03:40
=== HrdwrBoB is now known as SleepBoB
danielsSleepBoB: thanks dude03:48
=== daniels stares after SleepBoB.
danielsoem: NVidia                                                                                                             03:49
danielsvendor: NVidia Corporation                                                                                              03:49
danielsproduct: NV10 Reference Board Chip Rev A6                                                                               03:49
danielsSleepBoB: um, sorry, but tough shit. your monitor's loudly claiming it can do 1024x768@75Hz; either get a monitor that doesn't lie, or ... i dunno, something else03:49
danielsjesus, bizzare. anyone texish around?03:51
danielsif so, could you please download scalable-cyrfonts, change generate_fonts and any2sfd to use fontforge instead of pfaedit, then build from source? it ftbfs for me because fmtutil can't find fmtutil.cnf, but it's generated ok in /var/lib/texmf/web2c03:52
danielsHrdwr_BoB: and your monitor advertises 1280x960 as well, god knows how it deals with that03:55
danielsHrdwr_BoB: i mean, we do n-1 so people have a good-looking display, but we really can't protect against monitors blatantly lying03:55
=== Kamion successfully installs a warty system with LVM out of the box
Kamion... after only a little installer hacking ...04:00
Kamion(and a hideous UI, but can't really help that at this stage)04:00
elmoid: DPro 2070SB04:00
elmores: 1920x1440 1600x1200 1280x1024 1152x864 1024x768 832x624 800x600 720x400 640x48004:00
elmofreq: 30-140 50-16004:00
elmodaniels: is 1920x1440 meant to be n-1 ?04:00
danielselmo: yeah04:00
danielselmo: (the list is generated from ddcprobe | egrep '^c*timing' as its base)04:01
danielselmo: ... unless you have an lcd, in which case 1920x1440 is n04:01
elmoctiming: 2048x1536@8504:02
elmoctiming: 1600x1200@7504:02
elmowhy would it be lower hz for lower  resolutions?04:04
lamontMithrandir: chunderbert installed04:04
Mithrandirlamont: yay!04:05
danielselmo: because they wrote the ddc code on boxing day?04:05
danielsor the day after their christmas party or something'04:05
danielselmo: monitors like that are the reason we use n-1 :P04:05
danielselmo: what sort of monitor is it, out of interest?04:06
elmothose aren't in order, btw04:06
elmoctiming: 1600x1200@7504:06
elmoctiming: 1920x1440@8504:06
elmoctiming: 2048x1536@8504:06
elmothose are the last three04:06
elmodaniels: mitsubishi04:06
elmoI had no idea it could do such a high res.. I might have to try X in that res :)04:06
danielselmo: heh!04:07
danielselmo: 21", i presume?04:07
elmoyeah, 21" or... 22" I think, technically04:07
elmoyeah, it's 22"04:07
elmowhat's the easiest way to force X to do it's auto-configure stuff, given this is an ex-sid box?  purge x* and reinstall?04:08
fabbioneelmo: not all of it04:09
danielspurge xserver-xfree86 and reinstall, yah04:09
fabbioneelmo: apt-get --purge remove xserver-common xserver-xfree8604:09
danielsmake sure xresprobe, mdetect, and discover1 are installed04:09
fabbioneapt-get install xresprobe mdetect laptop-detect discover104:09
elmodiscover1 ?04:09
danielsfabbione: ... why -common?04:10
danielselmo: yeah, beacuse discover is a bag of arse04:10
fabbioneapt-get install xserver-xfree8604:10
fabbionedaniels: dexconf04:10
danielselmo: you can not have it if you really want to tell x what sort of video card you have :P04:10
elmooh, it was discover2 that got moved to universe04:10
danielsfabbione: ho hum04:10
danielselmo: yah04:10
elmocan I tell it to do n-1 and not n, btw?04:10
elmoerr, or vice versa, rather04:10
danielselmo: ... it's doing n-104:10
danielselmo: no04:10
elmoaww, but I want shiny 2048x1536 :)04:10
fabbioneelmo: we need your brain in one piece04:11
danielsit's on my todo list, k?04:11
fabbioneelmo: not cooked by monitor radiation04:11
elmodaniels: sure, only kidding04:11
fabbioneelmo: :-)04:11
danielselmo: i need to implement proper option parsing in xresprobe (there's another feature stalled on that also) in order to do that04:11
danielselmo: in the meantime, take pingudance.mp3 as your hold music04:11
elmodude, I've tried your music crack before, and it's _bad_ crack.. ;-P04:12
danielsi have worse crack, like my perl :P04:12
=== fabbione hates security.debian.org
fabbioneit's the most overabused string in apt-setup04:13
fabbioneit's repeated like 4 times in each po file04:13
=== kfish [~conrad@] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont reboots to add a reasonable amount of memory
=== ploum [~ploum@226-234.243.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu
thomhey k!04:22
kfishyo thom, how's it going?04:22
thompretty damn good. how 'bout you?04:23
kfishfiiine :)04:23
kfishjust mucking about with ubuntu on my powerbook ...04:24
kfishchecking out bugzilla to log my critical "fortune is missing" bug :)04:24
jame1guys, is there any reason I should expect grub-install to take > 1 minute in the ubuntu install process?04:25
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionjame1: what filesystems are you using?04:25
Kamionkfish: hm, I thought we added fortune04:26
jame1Kamion: XFS.04:26
Kamionwasn't there a warning about that?04:27
=== kfish updates ...
Kamionfortune-mod is in the desktop seed, has been for a little while04:27
kfishKamion, ah, wasn't installed by default, that's all04:28
jame1Kamion: you're right. There was, I'd forgotten. Why does it not work with XFS?04:29
=== kfish plays with the gnome fish thingy ...
thomjame1: go to vt2, ps auxww|grep grub, kill that process, it restarts and works04:30
thom(as a work around)04:30
=== StoneTable [~stone@] has joined #ubuntu
jame1thom: there are two grub processes. Kill the grub-install one or the grub one?04:31
jame1thom: you're a ninja.04:32
thomheh :-)04:32
Kamionkfish: hm, should've been installed by default; is this an older installation that you've upgraded?04:33
Kamionjame1: it's a grub bug, reported in Debian, I don't think anybody's figured out how to make it work yet04:33
Kamionsomething to do with having to xfs_freeze things first04:33
jame1Kamion: interesting. Thanks for the info.04:34
MithrandirKamion: I think maybe daniels knows?04:34
=== fabbione tests base-config with security
kfishKamion, installed from warty-powerpc-1.iso a few days ago04:35
=== Kamion confuses partman for fun and profit
fabbioneNO PHEAR! base-config new!04:36
Kamionweird that it can't do LVM over RAID, I wonder why04:37
lamontKamion: so I'm hacking on the BuildDI script again...04:38
danielsKamion: you need to invoke xfs_freeze -f then xfs_freeze -u just before grub is called, or maybe during04:38
danielsKamion: either way, it's a xfsprogs udeb for one, and yeah04:38
lamontwrt the date and that extra digit...04:38
jame1Ooh. It's broken a raid volume for me.04:39
fabbioneKamion: i noticed that too, but probably it's just a flag to set04:39
danielsfabbione: sync may do it04:40
danielsxfs_freeze essentially flushes04:40
=== lamont discovers _LETTERS_, then remembers that katie probably still has issues with them...
jame1phew. no it hasn't. Exciting times over here.04:40
fabbionedaniels: i was talking about LVM on RAID04:40
Kamiondaniels: no04:40
fabbionedaniels: i don't use fancy filesystems04:40
danielsKamion: ...04:40
Kamiondaniels: (a) the Debian maintainer tried that, and it didn't work for some reason; see the bug report04:40
fabbionedaniels: i leave that tasks to kids ;)04:40
Kamiondaniels: (b) you don't need a udeb since you can chroot into /target04:41
danielsfabbione: you're getting dull in your old age, dad :P04:41
danielsKamion: yeah, I fixed that by chrooting into /target and running xfs_freeze; seemed kind of icky tho04:41
fabbionedaniels 04:41
Kamiondaniels: nah, I think that's probably better04:42
danielsKamion: i'll take your word for it :)04:42
Kamiondaniels: no need for udebs for things you only need after the base system's installed04:42
Kamionwell, in general anyway04:42
=== daniels throws a bucket of cocks at Jrg Schilling.
Kamiondaniels: also, somebody (joeyh?) told me that grub or update-grub or something itself has to run xfs_freeze, so a udeb wouldn't help anyway04:43
danielsKamion: eeyow04:43
fabbioneelmo: is warty-updates like stable-proposed-updates ?04:45
=== debianist [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionfabbione: flag> could be, I'd have to understand parted :-)04:46
jame1I need a little more grub help, guys. I told the installer to install grub to /dev/hdg1. I've setup lilo on the other OS on the box to have an entry like this:04:47
jame1        label="ubuntu"04:47
jame1        table=/dev/hdg04:47
jame1but booting ubuntu from the lilo prompt gets me to the OS on /dev/hde1 (windows xp).04:47
jame1Am I missing something obvious?04:48
jame1(yes, I ran lilo)04:48
fabbioneKamion: there must be a flag of some sort that say that a certain device can be used for lvm or not04:48
Kamiondifferent disk order? lilo resolves names at the point when you run lilo04:48
Kamionfabbione: there is, in parted04:48
fabbioneKamion: perhaps the one for RAID is not set properly or forced04:49
KamionI could well believe it, it isn't set properly on powerpc04:49
elmofabbione: yeah, it definitely shouldn't be on by default04:49
fabbioneelmo: yup.. i just wanted to be sure04:50
fabbioneand no .. i was NOT going to add it04:50
fabbionei swear on thom's ppc04:50
thomfortunately i still have one ;)04:50
elmoso _that's_ where the 4th Xserver went, eh?04:51
fabbionewasn't an ipod? ;)04:51
danielsi was trying to work out how many X servers there were04:51
Mithrandirfabbione: yeah, tube ipod.04:51
fabbioneok security is done...04:51
fabbionenow i need to fix the other crap04:52
jame1Kamion: assuming it was the disk order, is there a way to fix it?04:52
fabbionebut first a little break04:52
fabbionei am getting old04:52
Kamionjame1: figure out what the disk is called in the system where you're running lilo (e.g. mount disks to find out), then call it that in lilo.conf04:53
jame1Kamion: I have targets for both /dev/hde and /dev/hdg (which are both visible from lilo-os). Booting either of them sends me to /dev/hde.04:54
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
lamontmuch better response with 1.125GB than with .125GB of RAM. :-)05:01
thomstrange that05:02
elmoomg, far too much sunshine05:03
lamontthom: I _had_ DDR RAM, so I didn't buy more than the minimum when I bought the box.  sadly, that'd be registered vs unregistered or some such - my DDR was no good in the box...05:03
lamontelmo: I thought they banned sunshine in .uk, no?05:03
lamontKamion: the new and improved daily build script only adds the extra digit when you have me do a second build in the same day, and resets it back to just YYYYMMDD whenever you do a sourceful upload05:04
lamontoh, and don't do any source-NMU's...  It won't like that.05:04
Kamionlamont: heh05:05
Kamioncool, thanks05:05
pittiseb128: Now I need some translations from you :-)05:05
seb128yeah ?05:05
pittiseb128: Administrative tasks have been disabled for security reasons. Please use Menu Computer &gt; System configuration &gt; Printing05:06
pittiseb128: this is the new warning for the CUPS web interface05:06
lamontpitti: you gonna fix sudo back, or do I get the privilege? :-)05:06
pittilamont: what do you mean? the timeout?05:07
pittilamont: since I have to go in about five minutes, I would appreciate if you could do that...05:07
seb128Les tches administratives ont t dsactives pour des raisons de scurit. Veuillez utiliser le menu Poste de travail -> Configuration systme -> Impression05:07
pittiseb128: thanks!05:07
lamontmount /media/cf05:07
lamontmount: special device /dev/sda1 does not exist05:07
lamontbut only if I'm silly enough to boot the machine without CF plugged in, and then try to use it...05:08
lamontwonder what I need to poke.05:08
lamontCF reader is a usb device.05:08
pittiseb128: the syst?me is broken. Can you please send me this by mail?05:10
lamontboot found the device (and allocated sd[a-d] , but no device files were created, it appears...)05:10
danielsmdz: ping05:10
seb128pitti: ? is that a new string to translate ?05:10
lamonthrm.. sda exists, but is unreadable05:10
pittiseb128: no, just the second menu part of the first string05:11
pittiseb128: all other characters worked, but not the one in "syst...me"05:11
seb128pitti: do you want a mail, or that's ok now ?05:12
pittiseb128: it still does not work. Maybe this character cannot be displayed in latin105:12
=== kiko [~kiko@200-206-134-238.async.com.br] has joined #ubuntu
=== kiko frowns
pittiseb128: although it should. Wait, I just enter it by hand, `e should work05:13
seb128pitti: /charset utf-805:13
seb128in xchat05:13
kikothe ubuntu kernel from yesterday's dist-upgrade is giving me a crc error :-(05:13
pittiseb128: okay, I did. Can you pleas send again the word?05:13
pittiseb128: ah!05:13
pittiseb128: thanks!05:14
seb128you're welcome05:14
kfishis it a bug for a ubuntu package to Suggest an unsupported package?05:17
thomdon't think so05:20
thomcertainly we've not been checking :-)05:20
kfishok :)05:20
seb128thom: FYI I've the gconf problem on a fresh install with en_GB05:21
thomyay :-)05:21
seb128trying to find the problem for 2 hours now, and still nothing, grrrrr05:22
lamontKamion: what does 'Add 'Defaults !lecture,tty_tickets' to initial sudoers file.' mean?05:22
lamontso we still want '!lecture', but drop tty_tickets, it appears05:24
thomlamont: eh? we don't want the Defaults <user> timeout=0 bit from base config05:24
lamontthom: that's not what was actually done.05:24
lamontah, so that's it.05:25
lamontsudo also has per-tty tickets turned on, which I think we want to eliminate05:25
thomno, i think we're keeping those05:25
thomi thought we were, anyway05:25
=== lamont will pester mdz et al for what the real answer is.
lamontprolly no jdub here either, eh?05:26
=== lamont goes outside for a few minutes. brb
jame1'night all.05:28
jame1thanks for the bootloader help.05:28
=== jame1 [~james@c211-30-13-146.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu []
Kamionlamont: the timestamp thing was done in base-config, not in sudo05:31
Kamionlamont: that change is the bit that wants reversed05:32
mdzdaniels: pong05:42
mdzlamont: I like the tty_tickets; we want to get rid of the timeout=005:43
mdzmorning all05:44
Kamionlamont: check with fabbione, he took the lock on base-config a while ago05:44
fabbioneKamion: almost done :-)05:44
fabbioneKamion: security is done.. i am testing the fix for the duplicates05:45
fabbioneKamion: we only need to wait for the dns to be updated05:45
HcEanybody got a tip to how to replace gconfd with gnome-settings-daemon in openbox? Now I'm doing a hack in .xsession, but it should be a nicer way?05:46
=== debianist [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneoh god.. for a second i had a panic attack05:48
debianistdo we have any cd writing software outofthebox?05:48
fabbionei read "dentist" instead of 2debianist"05:48
thomdebianist: nautilus-cd-burner and cdrecord05:48
thomfabbione: rofl05:48
debianistthere rather unintuitive to find05:48
thomdebianist: right clicking on an iso image and clicking write to cd is unintuitive?05:49
rburtondebianist: n-c-b opens when you put a blank CD in... how much more do you want?05:49
thomand ... yeah05:49
debianistrburton : oh oops sorry. my cdrw media is not blank. ok thanks05:49
Kamionfabbione: wanna reverse the timestamp_timeout change while you're at it, then?05:50
debianistrburton : cool! it's like on Mac OS X05:50
rburtonn-c-b rocks05:50
=== rburton might be biased
thomrburton: shame about it's author05:51
debianistrburton : does it empty the cdrw before writing the iso? (it's full with the 2 days daily)05:51
rburtondebianist: there is an option, yeah05:51
rburtonthom: the no-armed frenchman you mean? i just package it05:51
debianistrburton : i really ought to pay more attention, it's doing it right and reports it nicely.05:51
thomah, my point still stands :-)05:51
debianistgoing to test sounder8 on my dell inspiron 820005:52
rburtonthom: actually, there is probably still RossCode in it 05:52
rburtonso both points stand05:52
thomhave you made m3us work yet? :P05:52
debianistthom : what's m3us ?05:53
rburtonthom: i'm still waiting for the patch05:53
thomdebianist: a running joke, but also the mp3 playlist file format05:53
thomrburton: pffft05:53
rburtonthom: thought i've nearly got quality sorted!05:54
thomrburton: cool :-)05:54
thomnow you just need to turn the whole thing into a rhythmbox plug in...05:54
rburtoni keep on telling them that the extracting bit it is standalone, but no-one listens05:55
thomrburton: hrm, care to file a bug to remove ephy web bookmarks for us, too?05:56
rburtoni was about to propose that05:56
=== lamont is reminded that a ton of hay weighs a lot, even when you split it into 30 pieces...
thomodd that06:05
=== SteveA [~steve@adsl-213-190-44-43.takas.lt] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneKamion: deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 4.10 _Warty Warthog_ - Unofficial i386 Binary-1 (20040908)] / unstable main restricted06:12
fabbioneis it normal?06:12
fabbionethat it adds restricted at the end06:12
mdzI believe so06:16
mdzsince we'll be shipping some restricted on the CD06:16
=== fabbione uploads base-config ubuntu13
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
lamontfabbione: wanna remove the timeout=0 from base-config's sudo hackery while you're in there?06:18
fabbionetoo late06:19
lamontfabbione: does that mean that you're done with the lock, and ubuntu13 is in-process?06:19
fabbioneubuntu13 should be accepted in less than 30 secs06:19
fabbionelamont: correct06:19
lamontnp - I'll do it.06:20
fabbionei was waiting for katie to release the lock06:20
lamontthis is a virtual-lock, yes?06:20
fabbionemdz, elmo: ubuntu13 will add security.nny.com if the archive is reachable, otherwise it will add it commented out06:20
fabbionelamont: of course06:20
mdzfabbione: sounds good06:21
mdzfabbione: is there any reason not to do the same for main?06:21
fabbionemdz: yes. main and cdrom are supposed to be the same06:21
mdzwe should make all of supported available if they are connected to the internet06:21
mdzfabbione: the cdrom only has desktop+ship06:22
mdzfabbione: oh, you are saying you did it already06:22
fabbionemdz: i think that's more than enough.. also.. people that wants more, usually knows what to look for06:22
Kamionfabbione: ha, it started doing that without my intervention06:22
fabbioneKamion: ?06:22
Kamionfabbione: (largely, anyway) - because debian-cd has started to include /dists/warty/restricted/ now and restricted is in /dists/warty/Release06:22
Kamionso it all happens automatically06:23
fabbionemdz: security is enabled automatically if you are connected to the network, otherwise it is added but commented.06:23
mdzfabbione: right. but what about warty/main?06:23
fabbionemdz: but not for main/restricted/universe06:23
fabbionemdz: main/restriced are enabled automatically on netinstalls06:23
mdzI think it should do the same thing for main, and possibly restricted06:23
fabbionemdz: but not on cdrom06:23
fabbionemdz: i don't think we should do that06:24
mdzI think they should be enabled for cdrom installs if network is available06:24
fabbionemdz: because that stage happens before the install06:24
Kamionmdz: has anything from restricted been seeded yet?06:24
mdzKamion: no, because there is only one package there, and its name is going to change06:24
Kamionmdz: I'd like that to happen soon if it's going to happen so that I can shake out any bugs in debian-cd it exposes06:24
fabbionemdz: so you might end up downloading stuff from the net because it's "newer" than CD.06:24
seb128hum, we still don't have bash_completion activated on default installation ?06:24
mdzfabbione: did you hear from herbert, btw?06:24
Kamionseb128: bash_completion is very slow to load for me06:24
fabbionemdz: yes. he will come back to me in one or two days06:24
mdzhmm, that rename should have been trivial06:25
mdzwe cannot wait on this stuff, it needs testing06:25
mdzI'll email him06:25
fabbionemdz: that's what i was expecting06:25
seb128Kamion: how slow ?06:25
fabbionemdz: but he said that the new packages will be ready in 1/2 days06:25
Kamionseb128: about a second06:25
Kamionseb128: which is pretty painful at the rate I fire up new shells06:25
Kamionthis is on a newish box, too ...06:25
fabbionemdz: i didn't push any further because i don't know exactly the releation with Xu06:26
Kamionwell, ok, it's more like half a second once it's in the cache06:26
mdzseb128: if you want fancy completion, we provide zsh :-)06:26
seb128Kamion: I've no problem with it here, but ok, if that's slow, I'll just keep activating on my boxes :)06:26
fabbioneKamion: ok.. gotcha (about restricted)06:26
seb128mdz: no, I just like to apt-get ins<TAB> nauti<TAB> 06:27
seb128that's fine with the bash one :)06:27
mdzfabbione: re: "so you might end up downloading stuff from the net because it's "newer" than CD.", the same is true of security06:31
mdzfabbione: if we update things in Warty, it is for good reason, and they should supersede what is on obsolete CDs06:31
mdzfabbione: granted, the user could be behind a modem, so we may not want to install them immediately06:32
fabbionemdz: sorry but i don't completly agree06:32
mdzfabbione: but when the user does their first upgrade, they should certainly receive the updates06:32
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mdzfabbione: what is the basis of your objection?06:33
fabbionemdz: modem is one reason, the other one is that we want to be able to install from cdrom 100%. If we enable stuff around is going to be bad06:33
kagouhi from ubuntu 8 :)06:33
mdzfabbione:  but when the user does their first upgrade, they should certainly receive the updates06:33
fabbionemdz: i am dealing to push security updates as "mandatory" but not all the rest06:33
fabbionemdz: if they want updates they will have to uncomments the lines.06:34
mdzfabbione: the net result is that cdrom installs do not get access to additional supported software by default, and that is wrong06:34
fabbionemdz: perhaps they don't want to update from us06:34
mdzforget about updates for a moment06:34
mdzall of Supported becomes invisible for those users06:34
fabbionemdz: i understand what you mean, but at that point a user that wants more, will know what to do06:35
fabbionemdz: in the beginning Mark said: "There is only cdrom installation"06:35
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mdzfabbione: a Debian user, yes06:35
mdza power user, yes06:35
mdzbut everyone else should have it, too06:35
fabbioneah here is ;)06:35
kagouseem strange that i had to reboot for access my sound card 06:36
mdzsabdfl: question: should users installing from CD have access, by default, to all of warty/main via http by default?06:36
sabdflyes absolutely06:36
mdzI agree06:36
sabdflso the default sources.list should not refer to the cd, just the web site06:36
lamontsabdfl: and should there initial install fetch newer bits from the net if they're there, or just install from CD?06:37
sabdflmain and restricted06:37
fabbionesabdfl: also for people installing from a modem?06:37
mdz_not_ the CD?  that would defeat the point of ShipSeed06:37
mdzI do not think that the initial install should download anything for a CD install06:37
sabdflmdz: it's copied into their cache already, isn't it?06:37
mdzhowever, after the install is complete, all of Supported should be available06:37
mdzsabdfl: hmm, good point06:37
fabbionesabdfl: not necessarely.. if we add the http stuff no...06:38
sabdflfabbione: it would be nice to have the "fetch latest updates" as an option during the install06:38
fabbionesabdfl: option = question?06:38
sabdflin fact, that could happen during the Great Copy, couldn't it?06:38
sabdflfabbione: would have to be06:38
Kamionsabdfl: the cdrom: URI needs to be in sources.list otherwise the cached copies don't work06:39
mdzKamion: they should work fine for http as well06:39
sabdflah, so they are "caches of the cdrom packages"06:39
Kamionsabdfl: I ran into this just yesterday06:39
Kamionmdz: only if you can contact it, though ...06:39
sabdflwill it always prompt for the cd then?06:39
Kamionit's more complicated to get rid of the cdrom: URI and it's not necessary06:39
mdzKamion: we already agree that we should only uncomment it if it can be contacted06:39
fabbionesabdfl: as it is now after the install we suggest the http lines for main/restriced and universe as we agreed via email and we force security updates06:39
Kamionsabdfl: no06:39
Kamionsabdfl: basically we do an update from the cdrom before reboot, and that sets up apt's database post-reboot properly06:40
mdzas it is now, if you uncomment main, then it will still always prompt for the CD if the package was on the CD06:40
mdzwhich is in many situations much less convenient than downloading06:40
Kamionmdz: oh, I see. really?06:40
KamionI'd *much* rather have the CD06:40
mdzKamion: it goes roughly in sources.list order, first-match06:40
mdzoh, that06:40
Kamionmdz: we could always put http: above cdrom: ...06:40
mdzwhen I finish installing, I put the CD away06:41
mdzusually I want to grab something small06:41
mdzwhich takes 5 seconds via network06:41
mdzand much longer for me to go get the CD and put it in the drive06:41
Kamionmdz: then the ship seed is entirely pointless06:41
sabdflwhat about creating a repository on the hdd... i suppose that's a space issue06:41
mdzKamion: my concept of ShipSeed was to have things close by that you might need to get on the network and such06:41
sabdflgetting the cd is a right pain. imagine a year later...06:41
fabbionesabdfl: that's more complicate yes..06:41
Kamionsabdfl: yeah, also an automatic cleaning issue, using /var/cache/apt/archives means that 'apt-get clean' gets rid of it06:41
Kamionmdz: shipseed has stuff like alternate browsers at the moment06:42
Kamionsabdfl: I wasn't suggesting making the CD mandatory, merely usable ...06:42
mdzKamion: those are huge; if the user really wants them, they might be grateful to have them on the CD06:42
mdzI'm not sure we can remove the cdrom: line without putting low-bandwidth users in a bad position06:42
fabbionemdz, sabdfl: switching apt lines after the install means creating another hook for base-config or a deep modification to apt-setup...06:42
Kamionmdz: but they won't be able to if the cdrom: URI is zapped06:42
sabdflKamion: how are we for cd size at the moment?06:42
Kamionsabdfl: 'bout 100MB short of the wall06:43
debianistare we preloading firefox, or better yet epiphany? this also has slow response times for the first fire ups06:43
Kamionmaybe a bit more06:43
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sabdflif we created an apt repository on the hard disc, then that would take up an extra 600MB of space, but you'd never need the cd again06:44
Kamionsabdfl: but you wouldn't be able to clean it automatically06:44
mdzKamion:    * Install S33framebuffer-module-linux-i386 on amd64 too06:44
mdzKamion: is that the only reason the framebuffer didn't work for me on amd64?06:44
thommdz: that was the thought06:44
Kamionsabdfl: and there's a debootstrap deficiency that means it'll probably actually be 1.2GB extra during the install06:44
mdzI think the /var/cache/apt/archives approach is the right one06:44
Kamionmdz: in theory, can't test yet :)06:45
fabbionesabdfl: our installation is already big enough...06:45
mdzthough we should probably clean out the stuff we actually _installed_ already06:45
Kamionmdz: agreed06:45
Kamionsabdfl: I was thinking of making archive-copier not bother to copy Base (since with the cdrom-detect change, debootstrap is now pretty fast by itself)06:45
sabdflhmmm... so in an ideal world, we'd have the desktop stuff copied to cache, which you can remove instantly, and the ship.seed stuff copied to a mini-repo06:46
Kamioncopying Desktop is clearly necessary to make the no-CD-in-second-stage work06:46
mdzbut we're straying from the important issue, I think, which is that users with Internet access should, by default, have access to all of Supported06:46
sabdflKamion: agreed06:46
Kamionthat leaves the question of Ship06:46
mdzwhen they fire up aptitude and synaptic and look for an application, they should find it06:46
mdzif we had the infrastructure to warn them about unsupported packages, I'd say universe should be added by default as well06:46
sabdflthe effect we want, the use case, is:06:46
sabdfl(a) install with CD, it pops out.06:46
sabdfl(b) throw away the CD06:46
mdzsabdfl: nono, (b) give the CD to a friend :-)06:47
Kamionoh, I should make the CD pop out on powerpc too now, shouldn't I?06:47
sabdfl(c) install anything that was on it (in ship.seed) without needing the cd06:47
mdzKamion: yes06:47
sabdfl(d) and anything newer, or outshide desktop+ship, comes over http06:47
mdzsabdfl: ok, currently that doesn't actually work06:47
Kamionthat was turned off because powermacs don't boot from CD without manual intervention danyway06:47
sabdflwhat works?06:47
mdzremoving cdrom and adding http :-/06:47
Kamionmdz: if we turned off base-config's cache-cleaning, that would be fine ...06:48
mdzapt doesn't look in the cache for stuff it expects to find on cdrom06:48
mdzcdrom is already 'local'06:48
mdz(I think)06:48
mdzKamion: oh, I didn't realize we were still cleaning the cahce06:48
mdzso I haven't actually tested it06:48
Kamionthe mini-repo for Ship would only be 100MB or so, which is not so bad06:48
fabbionemdz: today's crack didn't ask me for a CD and everything was copied in cache06:48
Kamionmdz: after aptitude -y install blahrant runs, yes06:48
mdzfabbione: yes, but then it's all deleted afterward06:49
mdzhmm, I wonder if aptitude diverges there06:49
mdzI'm going to test it right now06:50
mdzKamion: aptitude reimplements significant pieces of apt06:50
Kamionso, we could have archive-copier create /var/cache/archive-copier/desktop/ and /var/cache/archive-copier/ship/06:50
debianistmdz : aptitude is better than apt, right?06:50
Kamionwhen base-config runs, it moves /var/cache/archive-copier/desktop/ into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and then something sticks /var/cache/archive-copier/ship/ into sources.list06:50
mdzdebianist: aptitude is a frontend to apt06:50
mdzok, so the cache thing does in fact work06:50
mdzit will look in the cache for cdrom: sources06:51
Kamionmind you, I'm a bit leery of having sources.list refer to anything in /var/cache/06:51
mdz(both apt-get and aptitude)06:51
Kamionmdz: what does apt do if a file: URI disappears? does apt-get update fail?06:51
mdzKamion: yeah, that wouldn't be right. apt gets unhappy if it disappears06:51
mdzapt-get update would fail, yes06:51
Kamionok. it would be nice to have something which can kill that archive on demand, though06:51
Kamionapt-setup feels like kinda the right place but we're overloading it already ...06:52
fabbioneKamion: if stuff needs to be done AFTER the first install apt-setup is not the place to look at.06:52
Kamionmdz: /var/lib/?06:52
mdzwhat can we do about the ftp.no-name-yet.com issue?  we can either do it in apt-setup, which has the problem that the install may take a very long time, or we can do it later, which means adding a new base-config bit, right?06:53
Kamionfabbione: this is a reconfigure thing06:53
fabbioneKamion: we will need another "hook" for base-config or something06:53
Kamionfabbione: it's acceptable to run apt-setup after the install; it's got a man page and everything06:53
=== lamont would like to appologize to anyone subscribed to the BuilddStatus page.
fabbioneKamion: it will require a switch or something in any case = extra diversion from Debian06:53
Kamionand there isn't really any other tool that munges sources.list, apart from dselect's configurator, unless there's something in synaptic06:54
Kamionfabbione: well, it would have to be a menu item; but it's true that apt-setup doesn't ever remove sources.list entries at the moment06:54
Kamionok, I suppose we could be overanalysing this, we could just say to people "if you want to get that space back, rm -rf /var/lib/ubuntu/ship/ [or whatever]  and edit the line out of sources.list"06:55
Kamionremembering that it is warty06:55
fabbioneKamion: exactly and it does comment out the old ones only when called via menu/apt-setup new06:56
fabbionethat doesn't make anything easier06:56
Kamionmdz: the second stage already takes a long time; I'm not sure that it's a problem to have "downloading <foo> from security.no-name-yet.com" show up there06:56
Kamionfabbione: it's not easier, but it works :-)06:56
fabbioneKamion: well.. it removes ALL of them ;)06:57
Kamionmdz: gives people "secure by default" warm fuzzies, contrasted with the Windows approach of "install system then get on the net as fast as you can to download updates before your system is cracked"06:57
fabbionei need to go and prepare dinner06:58
fabbionelater (hopefully)06:59
Kamionalso, we'll be releasing update CDs fairly frequently as I understand it, so it shouldn't get too bad provided you have a recent CD (which, granted, is not going to be everyone)06:59
fabbione(otherwise it means that i will be doomed by something i don't want to do)06:59
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mdzKamion: it takes a long time, but not nearly as long as installing xfree86 over a modem or ISDN07:01
Kamiondo we want to deliberately install systems without security updates, though? I'm betting that most users will not install a system and then immediately think "ooh, I must update it"07:02
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mdzKamion: ideally, the security updates would be a separate step, which could be run from X while they do other things07:06
mdzfor warty, though...07:06
Kamionthat's the $64000 question07:11
thomgvm has the build-deps of doom07:18
lamontwhat other sudo-like packages are there in debian>?07:19
=== lamont finds a workaround for his 'if you don't have a CF card plugged in at boot, you can't use it' bug...
glyphI am lame; I get some leet 0-day warez and I don't even have time to test them :-(.07:24
lamontbut I really don't like unplugging wires internal to the computer...07:24
glyphdoes anyone have a suggestion for me to install ubuntu on one of my machines without destroying the existing debian install?   I don't have room anywhere for a full backup of my existing drives.07:24
lamontglyph: do you have a spare couple of gig in a partition of it's own?07:25
glyphlamont: if I had that, I wouldn't be asking this question ;)07:25
lamontrumor has it you can force ubuntu to just install in that partition, instead of trashing the machine...07:25
lamontthen you're probably stuck with installing another hard drive... :-(07:26
glyphlamont: Rgargh07:26
lamontor you could install vmware under debian, and then install ubuntu in a virtual machine...07:26
glyphlamont: I meant "warez" in the figurative sense07:26
lamontor s/vmware/selinux/07:26
lamontsorry.  uml07:26
glyphyou mean UML?07:26
glyphyeah, thought so07:26
glyphI guess it's about time I bought a new hard drive anyway07:27
=== lamont has never used selinux or UML, and hence gets confused some days...
glyphunless you guys want to send me one? :-)07:27
lamontglyph: I fear it's too far to walk. :-)07:27
glyphlamont: you could just mail-order me one07:27
Kamionglyph: how big's your swap partition? :-)07:29
glyphKamion: On the machine where I have one, it's just about big enough for software suspend :_)07:31
=== lamont determines that there are some disadvantages to really short "days".
Kamionnot big enough to install into, then ...07:32
Kamionlamont: such as?07:32
lamontif the source/binary disappears before my mirror script's rsync gets to it, then it thinks it's done, when it's not.07:32
=== lamont delves into why base-config is missing from his mirror
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spivglyph: do you have a large swap partition..? :)07:38
spivOh, I see Kamion just asked that.07:39
lamontsigh.  sometimes you can over kill something.07:39
lamont--size-only is good for debs (especially a debain mirror, where datestamps get screwed up in the mirroring), but not so good for Packages files.. :-(07:40
mdztoday is Debian "let's clone every RC bug into three" day07:41
lamontmdz: le huh?07:41
mdzlamont: http://bugs.debian.org/270619 http://bugs.debian.org/26816507:42
lamontMerged 266228 268143 268163 268164 268165 268225. 07:43
lamontNow _that_ is funny07:43
Kamionrootskel (0.91) unstable; urgency=low07:44
Kamion  * Joey Hess07:44
Kamion    - Add S05acpi-i386 to load fan and thermal modules if available07:44
Kamion      as early as practical in boot to avoid machine meltdown.07:44
Kamion -- Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>  Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:39:33 +010007:44
Kamionooh, must merge that07:44
spivKamion: Oh, which reminds me...07:44
spivKamion: Does the fan module get loaded before fsck runs?07:45
Kamiondunno, I was kind of assuming it'd be in the initrd07:46
spivI'll try to pay attention next time I boot, I guess :)07:48
mdzspiv, Kamion: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=48907:51
mdzwhich was fixed ages ago07:51
mdzfan and thermal are loaded from the initrd07:51
=== kiko goes to try and fix his ubuntu.
spivmdz: Ah, cool :)07:53
Kamionmdz: we should load those on amd64 too, I take it07:54
mdzof course, if the kernel panics before then or something, you're screwed07:54
mdzif your hardware is buggy like Keybuk's07:54
lamontmy USB CF reader ( kernel) only auto-mounts the CF when the USB cable is connected, removing CF and re-inserting gives no happiness...07:57
=== lamont has no clue why that would be...
thommdz: *g*08:00
SteveAweird... totem-xine is working now.  I changed nothing.08:01
kikois there a way to avoid all these device mapper errors at bootup beyond disabling the script?08:08
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Kamionkiko: mdz said that was fixed in recent kernels08:09
Kamionkiko: are you using in warty?08:09
kikoI'm using warty, this morning's dist-upgrade.08:10
kiko"ubuntu debugging artwork" basically.08:10
thommdz: i still got the device mapper spew on amd6408:10
Kamionkiko: dist-upgrade won't install the new kernel08:10
kikoKamion, okay, a new package name, just picking it up.08:11
Kamionshould do from now on, provided you have the linux-image-2.6-{386,686,whatever} package installed08:11
Kamionbut it won't work across the kernel-image -> linux-image rename08:11
mdzthom: during evms activation?08:11
thommdz: i imagine during devicemapper activation, but i'd have to reboot to check08:12
kikoand rhythmbox just randomly crashes with more than 1,400 songs loaded08:12
lamontkiko: I think there's a trivial workaround for that...  who needs 1400+ songs, after all.???08:14
=== lamont limited himself to 1062 songs, it seems. :-)
lamont3days + playing time.  heh08:15
=== lamont wonders why esd gets started..
kikoI have 4 days something, but..08:16
glyphI have 3000 songs just in my electronic downloaded collection08:16
glyphcloser to 15,000 total :)08:17
thomso, um, the hal in unstable does a lazy umount by default08:24
thomwhen you remove a device08:25
mdzI thought hal didn't implement actions like that08:25
mdzI've certainly yanked out usb devices and not had them unmounted08:25
thom19:12 < sjoerd_> thom: hal runts lazy umount if a device is gone08:25
thomand that's the debian maintainer08:26
kikoKamion, why was the rename done, though?08:26
mdzperhaps that just needs to be changed to run pumount08:26
thomlooking now08:27
mdzupdated bugzilla08:28
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lamontbad gdm08:39
lamontlibtool: link: `/usr/lib/gcc-lib/powerpc-linux/3.3.4/../../..//libbonobo-activation.la' is not a valid libtool archive08:39
Kamionkiko: we were redoing the packages from scratch, and it seemed like a good time to resolve mdz's pet peeve :-)08:40
kikoheh. 08:40
lamontseb128: gdm looks to be missing a build-dep or 6...08:40
mdzkiko: the name of the software contained in the package is 'linux'; that should be reflected in the name of the package :-P08:42
kikomdz, this isn't a plan to allow something like hurd-image to pop up, right?08:43
=== mdz makes a cross with his fingers
lamontkiko: but netbsd-image, otoh........08:44
kikosee, you made mako_ go away.08:45
=== kiko boots up
=== kiko boots up
kikoso I get some mknod file exists messages08:46
kikoand my eth0 stops working.08:46
kikothere's an error in bluetooth.conf..08:47
lamontmdz: only 6MB of diff between abiword...08:47
thommdz: ARH!08:48
thommdz: hal runs as user hal08:48
mdzthom: and rightly so08:48
mdzthom: hal is, however, in group plugdev08:48
lamontid hal08:49
lamontuid=113(hal) gid=113(hal) groups=113(hal),24(cdrom),25(floppy)08:49
thomso it is08:49
lamonthrm... wonder if that's it...08:49
thom19:47 ~/work/packages/hal-0.2.92% id hal08:49
thomzsh: 'hal' -> 'hald' [nyae] : n08:49
thomuid=109(hal) gid=109(hal) groups=109(hal),24(cdrom),25(floppy),103(plugdev)08:49
lamontyeah -mines an upgrade, hence plugdev is b0rked,.08:49
seb128lamont: gdm is missing a Build-Depends ? Which one ? That's ubuntu14 ... weird that Build-Depends changed 08:50
kikomdz, Kamion: this kernel recognizes my pcmcia network card *before* my inbuilt one.08:50
kikoan, not the kernel, the order modules are loaded.08:50
lamontubuntu14 on powerpc.  bitched about libbonobo-activiation, which didn't occur in the log file before the usage...08:51
thommdz: still not umounting. hrm08:51
seb128bonobo-activation is a part of bonobo08:51
kikomdz, Kamion: can I trust the change will be stable, or is this a bug we should be fixing?08:51
=== lamont tries just giving it back, since that seems to be the standard answer for ppc...
mdzkiko: when you install from scratch, the installer writes an /etc/iftab with names for each interface08:52
mdzkiko: which is then used to assign them the same names in the future08:52
mdzkiko: please do test it08:53
kiko's see.08:53
mdzkiko: if you yank the card corresponding to eth0, the other one should remain eth108:53
lamonthave I mentioned that my experience running buildd's on powerpc's leads me towards believing that the kernel on powerpc may not be ready for prime time...08:53
kikomdz, no /etc/iftab exists here, I'm upgrading from a very early sounder (5 or so).08:53
mdzkiko: that'd do it08:53
kikomdz, can I kick something to get it created?08:54
mdzkiko: you can reinstall, which would be an excellent test for us :-)08:54
mdzor if you can't, you can create the file by hand08:54
kikoheh. I can on one of the new notebooks we are buying, but not on my production box, not today.08:54
kikois there an example on my filesystem?08:55
mdzit'll look like this08:55
mdzmdz@max ~ $ cat /etc/iftab08:55
mdz# This file assigns persistent names to network interfaces08:55
mdzeth0 mac 00:0d:93:b0:50:f008:55
kikotrivial. okidok.08:55
mdzsee also man 5 iftab08:55
mdzhmm, that comment in the file ought to refer to the man page08:55
lamontmdz: what package is iftab in??? (/me has no man page...)08:55
kikoapropos iftab didn't tell me anything, hum hum.08:56
[Clint] lamont: ifrename08:57
lamontah, ok08:57
mdzkiko: you're probably in the same position as lamont08:57
mdzkiko: older CDs wouldn't have installed ifrename by default08:57
kikoreboot 2.008:59
kikoaha, that works.09:01
kikomdz, so about the mknod spew and bluetooth error -- should I be concerned enough to file bugs or are you on this?09:02
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mdzkiko: I don't have any bluetooth hardware, so I've no idea about that one09:03
mdzkiko: I don't recall seeing any mknod errors, either.  if you could file a bug specifying which init script is producing the error, we should be able to track it down09:03
kikoI have no bluetooth hardware that I know of either, but it is loading the HCI device layer..09:05
mdzkiko: what is the error that you see?09:05
=== lamont feels a mixture of pride and shame at using an at-here python script in a shell script...
kikomdz, let me reboot without gdm so I can actually tell you.09:06
kikocardmgr is complaining about an error in ./bluetooth.conf line 309:09
kikono driver bindings for AmbiCom BT2000C Bluetooth PC/CF Card09:09
mdzodd that it would mention line 309:10
mdzbut apparently you have a PC card device that looks like a bluetooth card09:10
kikoI have a netgear 11g card, that's it.09:10
mdzrun "cardinfo"09:10
kikoand prism54 works correctly with it.09:10
kikookay, one sec, rebooting again.09:11
kiko(I want to get you the mknod errors)09:11
kikoI get09:11
kikoStarting raid devices: ...09:11
kikomknod: /dev/hda1: file exists09:12
kiko(perhaps for each of the hda devices, it flips up too fast and dmesg is too short to catch it and ctrl-S doesn't work at that point)09:12
mdzdpkg -s mdadm | grep Version09:12
mdzthat's not from Warty09:13
mdzI fixed that bug in Warty already09:13
mdzmdadm (1.5.0-2ubuntu3) warty; urgency=low09:13
mdz  * Don't try to create device nodes which already exist09:13
mdz -- Matt Zimmerman <mdz@alcor.net>  Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:10:38 -070009:13
kikookay, sorry about that one then.09:13
mdz1.6.0-3 is from unstable09:13
kikoyou're right, apt-cache says it's my fault too.09:14
kikoI'll wager I have non-warty pcmcia files here too, let me dig into that.09:15
mdzif you were running unstable before, you really need to do a fresh install if you want to switch to Warty09:15
mdzit's worth it! :-)09:16
kikono, I just picked up some packages from unstable while upgrading I think.09:16
kikothis was warty from day zero.09:16
kikono other OS was ever installed on it :)09:16
mdzhttp://wiki.no-name-yet.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions number 1009:18
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debianisti've just had to fsck my part under deb_sid, and i noticed that usb mouse and keyboard didn't work - their drivers didn't load, might we inherit that as being debian based?09:25
debianistthis is because the drivers don't load on that stage of boot09:26
kikothe crash in gstreamer is in gst_atomic_int_read09:26
mdzdebianist: at that point, your BIOS needs to be emulating a legacy keyboard09:28
mdzlikewise for grub09:28
mdztypically there's an option in the BIOS for it09:28
debianistmdz : hmmm..it might as well be a bios emulation problem. I had it failing on me when i first got the mobo, but it went away eventually09:29
debianistmdz : however it was like, it worked for grub, just didn't work for saying "Yes" to fsck09:30
seb128lamont: how is the gdm retry ?09:37
lamontseb128: successful.09:37
lamont"powerpc: bringing you inconsistant failures at random times."09:38
lamontmakes me wonder how many non-fatal errors it's getting...09:38
seb128ok :)09:38
seb128but weird09:38
mdzlamont: is it running an SMP kernel?09:38
lamontFrom buildd@adare.warthogs.hbd.com  Wed Sep  8 12:55:51 200409:38
lamont Subject: Log for successful build of gdm_2.6.0.3-1ubuntu14 (dist=warty)09:38
lamontmdz: cat /proc/cpuinfo lists one processor09:39
lamontso I think it's not SMP09:39
=== lamont unthrottles his mirror so that he can build/test abiword... sigh
lamont350kbps isn't _bad_, but then it's not great..:-(09:42
mdzlamont: I don't understand why a local mirror is necessary in order to build and test abiword09:44
lamontmdz: it's not, but the bits come just as fast - since I'm only mirroring what's currently needed/missing09:45
lamontthe benefit of the mirror is that I can snarf bits at 20kbps all day long and not pay for it, having the bits there when I need them.  Fetching as needed would kill my bandwidth bill09:46
lamont(I just did an apt-get -udy build-dep abiword and cut/edited the 'failed to fetch' list to be the debs I need, and have the rsync going unthrottled.)09:47
lamontonce that's started, I'll throttle it back down to something affordable, and let it spend the afternoon catching up...09:47
lamontOTOH, I'm fetching large parts of X, which is the bulk of what's out of date in the mirror...09:47
lamontdamn X09:47
mdzabiword should build just as well with the last 10 versions of X as with the current one09:48
lamontnot when they're not in the cache anywhere...09:48
lamontI don't have all the -dev packages installed outside of my chroot09:48
lamontbuild running now, fwiw09:50
lamontand only 42 packages out of date in the mirror now...  almost entirely X packages not needed by abiword's build09:51
lamontwhere the issue really creeps in is (1) the mirror is constantly updating, and (2) I optimized it for my partial (what I need for chroot-sid to upload debian packages), and caused it to skip a few things.  Noticed that this morning trying to fetch base-config, and fixed it.  But it was behind on warty mirring as a result.09:52
lamontfor that matter, I expect that I could probably get away with just installing the sid version of abiword, but I want the test to be real... :-)09:53
lamontI didn't see anything that screamed "SCARY" at me in the changelogs09:53
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lamonthrm.. abiword doesn't need xaw[67]  or libdps - clearly it needs to expand. :)09:57
debianistKamion : i am testing again #1707 seems that it still won't accept my changes on partman10:00
debianistKamion : under QEMU10:00
lamontmdz: build finished10:01
debianistKamion : that's the sounder810:02
lamontmdz: any suggestions on things that we want to test beyond just banging around in abiword?10:04
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lamont827 is a royal pain.. not sure how or even if that can be fixed...10:18
lamontwell, adding a postfix user to base-passwd would fix it..10:18
lamontor let me fix it, rather.10:18
lamontif it's really generating the warnings during preconfig, then postfix hasn't had time to create the postfix user, and then the directories in question..  hence when some idiot process tries to send mail from its preinst, the mail falls on the floor.10:20
lamontpostfix does so noisily..10:20
mdzbase-config could preinstall postfix along with mdetect and xresprobe10:22
mdzwhether that's a good idea or not would be a question for Kamion10:22
lamontok.  I'll poke him in email10:22
diemanlamont: h8 that10:28
diemanlamont: debconf should be configurable to not mail.10:28
diemanof course10:28
diemani bet theres a package that mails outside of debconf10:28
diemanto be difficult10:28
lamontmdz: is there any way to get apt to be more verbose about it's decision that a package is not installable?10:29
diemani need to put some bugs in on the remote desktops tuff10:29
diemanit does not like xinerama10:29
mdzlamont: it tells you the immediate cause; for the nontrivial case it typically says that it's because of something else that is "not going to be installed", in which case you try to install that thing to see why, etc.10:33
lamontmdz: re 1066 - media removal part (and indeed the rest of the burning) works as root.  eliminating the error (just print and continue) for mortals just lets them get one step further before they die.10:34
lamontmdz: 27065310:34
mdzlamont: ok, so the bug is not that media removal no longer works as non-root, the rest of the process doesn't either10:34
mdzseb128: ping?10:35
lamontmdz: right.  The inital write fails, IIRC.10:35
lamontbasically, the mortal has no access to the device10:36
lamonteffectively, that is.10:36
mdzthey do have read access10:40
lamontbut write access is gone, despite perms.10:41
lamontwhich leads one to expect that something is happenign that needs roots loving before the first write tries to happen..10:42
thomit's a shame that we didn't declare dbus/hal to be part of the gnome feature goal :-)10:44
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mdzI haven't actually tried dd'ing onto a dvd+rw to see if it works10:45
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debianistmdz : d-i suggests a small /boot partition for grub, otherwise it says it'd fail. why not having something automagically to compute the size ?10:54
debianistmdz : when trying JFS10:54
mdzdebianist: JFS is not recommended for root for that reason; it displays a warning10:55
debianistmdz : it asks you manually to do that. or maybe the layman should not be tamper with JFS?10:55
mdzit's a corner case that we don't need to optimize for10:55
debianistmdz : k10:55
debianistmdz : reizerfs install was sweet :)10:55
debianistmdz : how'd make it so fast? (bootup,shutdown,install)10:56
kikomdz, btw, the new bootup is significantly faster on this notebook.10:57
mdzkiko: we optimized a few things10:57
mdzjust recently I rewrote a bit of hotplug which saved me about 4 seconds on boot10:57
kikoin perl, too. :)10:57
mdzI had no choice :-P10:58
debianistperl? hotplug is in c...10:58
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debianistthis patches would reach debian eventually? 10:58
debianiststrange, seems there is no app to handle pdfs10:58
mdzdebianist: er, no, hotplug is a bunch of shell scripts10:59
mdzwhich is why it was so slow in the first place10:59
debianistso perl did it faster?11:00
debianistor did you compailed it natively afterwards?11:00
mdzit was faster to call out to perl for this specific bit of work than to do it in shell11:05
diemanis there a db for laptop support?11:09
diemanive got a prof with a d600 that i might put ubuntu on if i have to, he wants suspend really bad11:09
thomno, we've been talking about doing such a thing tho11:09
diemanthis d600 website is talking about a pile of patches to to get acpi working right11:11
thomwe'd love to know if it works :-) seriously though, we're shipping with current acpi patches, so if it works at all in linux it'll work with us11:12
diemani should try it then11:12
diemanyeah, if you already have the acpi patches..11:13
diemani think that sucker had a broken dsdt too11:13
thomwell, i think jdub has bought a dell laptop11:13
thomso there might be some synergy there :-011:14
diemanoh no11:14
diemanthey fixed it in a recent bios11:14
diemanA12 now has a fixed DSDT11:14
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu
seb128hey carlos 11:22
carlosseb128: I have a funny bug with epiphany11:23
=== lamont looks around for a dpatch-using package to crib off of
carlosseb128: I cannot visit https://www.networksolutions.com11:23
carlosit says that epiphany does not supports SSLv2 :-?11:23
carlosbut it works from mozilla11:23
seb128"You cannot connect to www.networksolutions.com because SSL version 2 is disabled."11:23
carlosand I was able to visit it some days ago11:24
carlosseb128: I see it's not a know bug11:24
carlosI will fill now a bug report11:25
carlosseb128: #111211:28
seb128it was working with epiphany ?11:29
carlosI think it was last week11:29
carlosbecause I was able to update a domain info11:29
seb128carlos: still here ?11:37
carlosseb128: yes11:37
seb128security.enable_ssl2 -> true11:37
carlosseb128: thanks, it works11:38
carlosbut why was it changed ?11:38
seb128<chpe> networksolutions sucks! isn't ssl2, like, insecure ?11:39
seb128<chpe> crispin: didn't you want to find a site still using ssl2 ? :)11:39
seb128<chpe> I wonder if we should re-enable it by default11:39
seb128<chpe> don't they offer v3 or tls ?11:39
seb128carlos: basically11:39
seb128I've closed the bug report with the settings mention, if you don't mind11:40
thomcarlos: SSL v2 is really, really broken11:40
seb128we have no real interest to keep it open11:40
carlosok, it's fine for me11:40
carlosthom: I didn't know that11:40
carlosdinner time, later!!11:42
mdzseb128: is there currently a way to suppress a menu entry without deleting the .desktop file?11:42
=== lamont finds himself in a twisty maze of autocrap
seb128mdz: there is a ShowSomething option for the desktop files yes11:42
seb128but I'm not sure that's currently supported ... should check with jdub 11:43
seb128he looked on this11:43
seb128why ?11:43
mdzis there an example in Ubuntu?  I have been looking11:43
mdzI was considering some changes and wanted to test them out11:43
seb128for a quick test, just removing Application from the Categories= should work :)11:44
mdzheh, thanks11:46
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