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debianistam gonna open a bug - /dev/dsp never works under rythmbox and there is no sound perior to to running alsamixer. i don't expect the layman to open alsamixer under a terminal12:02
bdalemdz: you maintain the zaptel and asterisk packaging?12:02
debianistafter first install reboot12:02
mdzbdale: I used to12:02
mdzbdale: zaptel anyway12:02
mdzbdale: I maintained an asterisk/zaptel-based PBX at my previous job; I no longer have the relevant hardware and the packages need a new maintainer12:03
debianistmdz : do you have any lead on this?12:04
bdalemdz: I just picked up a digium developer's kit to play with (pci card with one each fxo and fxs daughter cards), and was a bit underwhelmed by what's in /usr/share/doc/<blah>, but will defer being annoying about it for now.12:04
mdzbdale: wnpp #25193812:04
mdzdebianist: I don't understand the problem.  is this the issue where the volume is muted and/or set to a low value initially?12:04
jdubmdz: just delete the who categories line (to make menu entries disappear)12:05
bdalemdz: thanks for the pointer, I'll prod Mark12:05
mdzbdale: there's a #asterisk or similar somewhere12:06
mdzthe lead upstream developer is also Mark12:06
thommdz: yes, that's the alsamixer issue12:09
mjg59bdale: Heh. I'm getting complaints from people with Compaqs that won't work with their wireless cards now12:11
seb128jdub: morning12:11
bdalemdz: right.  email sent.12:14
bdalemdz: fwiw, the kit I bought came with a floppy containing a set of config files for playing with this board set as delivered, and a script with associated README for doing an install from CVS that includes Debian-specific info in the README about build dependencies, but the script's automatic checker still only does RH/Mandrake.  Still, it felt less Debian-hostile out of the box than a lot of things do.  ;-)12:14
bdalemjg59: these are folks putting different minipci cards into notebooks?12:14
jdubha ha xfs12:16
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mjg59bdale: Yeah12:18
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mdzbdale: upstream is very cvs-update-make-make-install oriented; for a long time they didn't even really *do* releases12:20
mdzbdale: not a very fun position for the Debian maintainers :-)12:20
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Keybukjdub: I'm a strange XFS user ... I've never had a problem with it12:25
Keybuknever seen a kernel panic, never had my data trashed, etc.12:25
Keybukext3 and reiser on the other hand ... lost drives galore to them! :p12:25
kikothat is indeed unusual, Keybuk <wink>12:26
debianistmdz : rythmbox says /dev/dsp doesn't exist12:26
kikodebianist, missing sound driver module?12:28
bdalemdz: I've sent email, maybe I'll be able to make an impression on them.  actually, packaging an installer based on the script included in this development kit might not be an unreasoanble thing to do.  worth pondering.12:30
bdalemjg59: my suspicion is that it's going to be hard to get the notebook folks to care a lot about this, but I could be wrong.12:30
mjg59Yeah, I can imagine12:31
Mithrandirbdale: may I whine a bit at you?  About HP and Linux non-support for scanners?12:36
bdaleMithrandir: sure.  it's a topic I like to whine about too.  the fundamental problem is that HP has OEM'ed a bunch of scanner stuff that we don't own all the IP for, which means some scanners are well supported and some aren't.12:37
Mithrandirseems like the current cheap-ish range of them aren't supported.12:38
bdaleMithrandir: I had a chance to poke at management in the right part of the company about a month ago.  They "understand the issue" but I don't have a completely clear picture about if/when the situation might change.12:38
Mithrandirthat _really_ sucks, especially given that you've had _excellent_ driver support for a wide range of OS-es in the future -- I wouldn't be surprised if I could find a word perfect 5.1 driver for a laserjeg 4100TN12:38
Mithrandirlaserjet, even.12:38
MithrandirI really like your scanner and printer stuff, but if it doesn't work with linux, well, at least for scanners, we have canon. ;)12:39
Mithrandirso please continue poking :)12:39
bdaleMithrandir: I will.  meanwhile, I strongly suggest checking the SANE web site's list of supported devices before making purchases, regardless of the vendor in question.12:40
Mithrandiryup, that's what I've been looking at.12:40
mdzI received a scanjet 3500C as a gift that I need to unload because of a lack of driver support12:40
=== bdale suggests eBay
=== jdub suggests cousins
Mithrandirbdale: it must be sad to give such advice. :(12:41
bdaleI keep my 5p for exactly this reason... it's a SCSI attached scanner that has excellant driver support.12:41
=== kiko suggests bonfire
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bdaleMithrandir: well, yes.  on the other hand, some Windows user will probably really enjoy it.12:42
bdaleI actually haven't tried using my PSC-950 as a scanner while it's attached to a Linux system, but supposedly the hpoj stuff supports scanning with it.  I should try that sometime.  The printer/scanner/copier/fax widgets are pretty cool overall.12:43
mdzbdale: hah, I have the same one12:43
mdzI was hoping to replace it with a USB model because SCSI was getting terribly inconvenient12:43
mdzat least some of the PSC models are reported to work quite well under Linux12:44
bdalemdz: truly.  my notebook supports USB 2.0, so that's become highly desirable as an interface for me personally.12:44
bdalemdz: yeah, printing on the PSC-950 from CUPS just works, and it hotplugs just fine12:44
=== HcE_ is now known as HcE
mdzbdale: I keep my computers in the closet and extend peripherals to my desktop via USB; it works quite nicely except that I still have a parallel printer (which requires another cable) and a SCSI scanner (which collects dust)12:45
bdalemdz: heh, my scanner mostly collects dust too.  I use it maybe 3 times a year.12:46
mdzI would use it much more if it weren't such a pain to hook up; I prefer to scan documents rather than trying to maintain a physical filing system12:46
mdzsome of the pins got bent on the cable I was using12:47
bdalehowever, I was reading up on how to get from paper to pdf the other night (sane scan pages in lineart 300dpi mode, then just give the set to convert seems to be the recipe) since I have some old machinery manuals in bad shape that I want to preserve the content from before they completely fall apart12:47
mdzand a new SCSI cable of the appropriate configuration would cost almost as much as a USB scanner12:47
bdalemdz: ick12:47
mdzbdale: but of course, I won't buy one of those, because I already have one I can't use and need to get rid of :-)12:48
mdzI've never sold anything on ebay, but I suppose I need to learn about that12:48
mdzscanjet 3500c seems to be going for all of $20, yuck12:49
Kamiondebianist: re #1071, dude, I do not own a time machine and therefore cannot retrospectively fix bugs in software I'd already released12:50
Kamiondebianist: Sounder 8 was released before I fixed that bug12:50
bdaleKamion: wimp!  ;-)12:50
Uclintuis there a dvdauthor-equivalent in warty?12:51
=== bdale recalls a facetious employee exam form with an option "e) allows facts to interfere with project progress" or some such...
debianistKamion : ok, was already close by mdz i think12:53
mdzUclintu: what does dvdauthor do?12:53
Uclintumdz: it seems to allow me to slap a bunch of mpegs together in a format suitable for writing with growisofs12:54
mdzI thought dvd+rw-tools had bits to do that12:55
Uclintui'll check12:55
mdzI guess not12:55
=== debianist beats himself unconsciously as a punishment
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=== Keybuk pokes chinstrap playfully
Keybukc'mon little computer, serve a web page, you know you can do it ..01:33
lifelesshehe, don't get too hopeful.01:39
Kamionthat explains the shit-for-beans bandwidth I have to little01:40
Kamionrather, latency01:40
jdub(why do we have all this k-rad hardware and we're still all sitting around twiddling our thumbs? i blame arch.)01:41
Uclintucan I blame arch for not having k-rad hardware?01:42
Kamionmdz: Live (not subset of) Supported is somewhat insanely weird to implement in Germinate01:59
Kamionmdz: doable, I guess, but definitely not for 1am contemplation ...02:00
Hrdwr_BoBor even 10am02:00
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mdzKamion: I don't mind if Live is required to be a subset of Supported for now02:02
mdzKamion: it's just an idea that might change at some point02:02
jdubit would change?02:12
jdubi see your mail02:13
jdubi object to that idea entirely02:13
jdubjust for the record02:13
Keybukmost of Germinate was written drunkenly at 3am ... I don't see how 1am could possibly be detrimental to it <g>02:15
KamionI'm going to have to invent some different seed promotion rules02:19
Kamionyow; did somebody just flush little's outgoing mail queue?02:19
KamionI've started getting mails about old task changes. I'd wondered where they'd gone. :-)02:20
elmoI just unfucked canonical.com from within the LAN02:20
Kamionah yes, I'd changed it to mail cjwatson@canonical.com02:21
kikoelmo, nice ;)02:22
Keybukelmo: did you find the entropy monster yet?02:23
elmokeybuk: no, I strongly suspect it's the kernel tho :(02:23
Keybukwhat does the kernel need entropy for?02:25
Keybukand why is that slowing things like tla down, which shouldn't be using it?02:25
Keybukit's all very odd02:25
elmoI dunno exactly but it does call get_random_bytes() in a number of places, and I can't find anything using /dev/random or any other way entropy could be disappearing02:26
jdubwe should invade some random country02:26
jdubthis entropy crisis cannot continue02:26
jdubwe must have resolve and courage02:26
jduband shit like that02:26
KeybukThey may take our lives, but they'll never take our entropy!!!02:27
Hrdwr_BoBfighting the war for more entropy!02:27
jdublaptop just arrived!02:39
danielsjdub: rad02:39
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jdubwarty install coming riiiiight up :)02:40
jduboh, funny: pia got a letter the other day, addressed to "P. Sith"02:41
Keybukjdub: be careful with it, it'll break!02:41
jdubnow i have my very own copy of windows xp02:43
Keybukyeah, I have one of those ...02:44
Keybukah yes, there it is02:44
Keybuk*puts his cup back on the coaster*02:44
jdubcool, there's an extra battery charger in the mediabase thingy02:46
=== lamont goes to class. bbl
jduband then it dawns on me02:52
jdubafter days of waiting02:52
jdubi did not think to come up with a computer name02:52
mdzI still haven't named mine02:52
danielsi'll donate you my name02:52
=== jdub types 'UBUNTU' into the windows xp box
Kamionfortunately I got a suggestion from a friend for the amd64 box, otherwise I'd've had to think02:53
Kamionand there's one spare for future use02:53
Keybukjdub: what's your naming scheme?02:54
jdubi don't really have one02:54
Kamionyou're so doomed :-)02:54
jdubmy desktop is lazarus02:54
jdubmy gateway is katia02:54
Kamionthink of a naming scheme, makes life so much easier02:54
Hrdwr_BoBtook me four years to come up with a naming scheme02:54
danielsjdub: leper?02:54
jdubmy ibook is willow02:54
jdubmy qubes are quick and quark02:55
Kamionto the untrained eye, my naming scheme is mostly "hard to spell"02:55
KeybukKamion: I thought that was Mithrandir's02:55
Kamionriva, arborlon, cairhien, dhiammara, crydee, perimadeia, cittagazze02:55
Hrdwr_BoBmine is alice in wonderland02:55
jdubKeybuk: there's a subtle difference between 'hard to spell' and 'norwegian'02:56
Keybukjdub: he uses pwgen to invent them02:56
Keybukthey're really not words in any language02:56
Kamioncool :-)02:56
spiv_jdub: cockfosters02:56
KeybukKamion: characters from bad sifi?02:56
jdubeleven fucking system tray icons02:56
jduband it's NEW02:57
jdubhey spiv_ 02:57
KamionKeybuk: cities from mostly-bad fantasy02:57
Kamionbut close02:57
danielsi like cockfosters02:57
jdubthat is so much cock02:57
spiv_jdub: Hey.  I'm about to sleep, but I thought you might like that suggestion before I zonk.02:57
elmoKamion: am I okay to clean out the old kernel stuff now?  both in terms of not built stuff and migrating to universe?02:57
Kamionelmo: fine by me02:57
danielsmine is nanasawa, tycho, gabe (fd.o), twisp, catsby, brenna/kara (in reserve), kimiko, rentazilla, piro, largo, shirtguydom, ed, junpei, seraphim, boo, et al02:58
Kamionif anything on cdimage is still using it I want to know about it anyway02:58
danielsthe penny-arcade line is now the active one02:58
KamionI like "rentazilla"02:58
KamionMegatokyo fan, eh?02:58
danielsKamion: used to be :)02:58
Hrdwr_BoBdaniels, where's the fruitfucker? :)02:58
Kamiondon't read it myself; several of my friends do, though02:59
danielsHrdwr_BoB: the iBook I had during lca was fruitfucker2000, actually02:59
danielsKamion: penny-arcade is great02:59
Keybukheh, I amusingly keep a list of future names for machines02:59
Keybukand I *never* use it02:59
Keybukthom came up with syndicate02:59
danielsKeybuk: buy more machines, then :P02:59
jdubbluetooth, network, network, sound, 'safely remove hardware', dell quickset, intel wireless, on ac power, synaptics, control suite, starting with windows02:59
Keybukdaniels: isn't that, it's that they're just boring and not new :p03:00
danielsHrdwr_BoB: so, I was standing in some homewares shop in Brunswick St, and I saw a Fruit Reamer, that was blurbing about how good it could ream the pulp03:00
danielsi burst out laughing and wondered if the creator read p-a :)03:00
Kamionjdub: what's that, questions asked?03:00
jdubKamion: systray icons03:00
danielsjdub: arse03:00
jdubabsolutely amazing03:00
daniels'safely remove hardware', aka unmount03:00
Hrdwr_BoBdaniels, ehehehe03:01
elmodaniels: dude, you just tangoed my monitor03:03
danielselmo: NO I DIDN'T!03:04
danielselmo: (what happened? i assume 'tangoed' is some form of slang for 'completely rooted')03:05
Keybukdaniels: "sprayed drink over" I suspect03:05
Keybukor, at least, caused elmo to do so03:05
danielsoh, cool03:05
elmowhat keybuk said.  tango's an orange fizzy drink, like fanta but nice03:05
jdubit's, um, "creamier"03:05
danielsheh. well, that's a little better than what I was thinking -- I was thinking that X had made the magic smoke escape or something in your sick quest to drive your monitor to eleventy billion x 2390 at 4Hz or whatever it was you were shooting for03:06
Hrdwr_BoBlol 4hz03:07
UclintuI like Belgian Fanta.  You should get it in the UK.03:08
=== Kamion imagines a wrap-around-entire-room monitor
danielsmezzo mix is nice03:08
KeybukKamion: nice...03:08
daniels(coke + orange mineral water)03:09
danielsKamion: don't forget the data glove!03:09
KeybukDo iiyama do IMAX ?03:09
danielsKamion: (although when anyone started talking about arch or any of the other projects, they'd end up screwing up their system totally)03:09
Keybukhey, at least you could code by hand-waving!03:10
jdubin windows xp, you "repair" a connection03:10
daniels(welcome to my punchline.)03:10
jdub(dhcp release/renew)03:10
danielsjdub: does that automacially rebuild the links some clown punctured with an anchor?03:10
Keybukjdub: it does kinda capture how people think though03:10
Keybuk"MY NETWORK IS BROKEN ... what happens if I click 'Repair'?"03:11
jdubi think one of my network cables is broken03:12
Uclintuthen it should be "Repair Internet"03:12
Keybuk"Are you sure you wish to move The Internet into the Recycle Bin?  Once done, you cannot get it back"03:13
Keybukdoes Mac OS X hang the modem up if you drag it onto the Trash?03:17
jameshor scrub the firmware?03:18
Keybukand if you drag "My Mac" onto the Trash, does it power off?03:18
Keybukor didn't they think through the metaphor very well, after all03:18
elmo   o acpi-modules-
elmo   o libdebian-installer-extra4-udeb03:22
elmo   o ufs-modules-
elmo   o ufs-modules-
elmokamion: all those are candidates for demotion for universe ?03:22
Kamionelmo: acpi-modules isn't, let me fix the seed03:26
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Kamionelmo: libdebian-installer-extra4-udeb is only used by cdebootstrap which we don't use, so I zapped that03:28
elmook, zapped in the archive too03:29
Kamionelmo: ufs-modules can go on all architectures, I just updated the seed to remove it from powerpc too03:29
Kamionit was there for potential use by os-prober to detect BSD systems, but that support's never actually been committed03:30
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jdub_Kamion: hmm03:31
jdub_Kamion: interesting installation wos03:31
jdub_i'll start again and step through03:32
Kamionjdub_: hm, I'm going to bed now, sorry03:32
elmokamion: cool, thanks03:32
Keybuksucky hardware, most likely03:32
jdub_Kamion: ok, i'll send mail03:32
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jdub_hrrrrmmm, interesting03:59
elmodaniels: ?04:09
danielselmo: !04:10
elmodaniels: xfree86 has a bogus b-d on libglide3-dev for amd6404:10
danielsi think glide needs to be synced back, then04:11
danielsiirc glide in sid does amd64 love04:11
elmoyeah, I'm just seeing that04:11
elmothere's a libglide3 for amd64 but no libglide3-dev?04:11
daniels<3 glide04:12
jdub_mdz: hrm, must be related to scsi issues04:14
mdzPackage: libglide3-dev04:14
mdzSection: libdevel04:14
mdzArchitecture: i386 alpha ia64 amd6404:14
mdzshouldn't dpkg-somethingorother blow up if it doesn't actually produce the binaries it's supposed to?04:15
elmomaybe it should, but it doesn't04:15
elmoe.g. dpkg itslef has had some binary it doesn't build in it's control file for eons04:15
jdub_my howl package doesn't include a bunch of stupid shit04:16
=== jdub_ ponders how to do the install
jdub_anyone done a netboot for a while?04:17
elmowe netbooted the DL140's before the conference04:19
jdub_does d-i store any vars on the disk?04:24
=== jdub_ can't find the debconf db
=== stub [~zen@dialup-] has joined #ubuntu
danielsjdub_: there's a dir called cdebconf somewhere under /var04:30
jdub_questions.dat and templates.dat04:30
jdub_hrm, questions.dat maybe04:31
=== jdub_ nastyhacks
danielsi had to do that for partman (along with nano'ing the binaries it was calling) on the 4am-on-the-last-day cd :)04:32
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mdzelmo: you going to file that glide thing in bugzilla for Mithrandir?04:38
jdub_yo jame1 04:42
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jdub_mdz: dude, your bong radar is on the money04:57
mdzwe should so rip out that hdparm stuff04:58
jdub_was that one of the problems with the real scsi stuff too?05:00
jame1jdub_: hey hey. Sorry, at work and only sort of here.05:03
mdzjdub_: seems plausible, dunno05:03
jdub_so it's booting up for the second stage05:04
jdub_it just loaded the ipw2200 (before tg3, grr)05:04
jdub_then it hit loading usb modules05:04
jdub_and now it's stopped05:04
jdub_ctrl-c isn't loving me05:04
jdub_ooh, there was an oops earlier05:05
jdub_hci_usb_probe: can't set isoc interface settings05:05
jdub_unable to handle kernel null pointer dereference05:05
=== jdub_ boots again
jdub_hrm, there we go05:06
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mdzhans sure is out of his head05:12
=== mdz reads LWN
jdub_new crack?05:14
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=== jorge_ is now known as whiprush
jdub_yp whiprush 05:16
jdub_yo, rather ;)05:16
whiprushheya jdub, just the man I wanted to talk to...05:16
danielswhiprush: hey dude05:41
jdub_no /dev/cdrom or /dev/scd005:44
fabbionemorning guys05:48
whiprushhey daniels, jdub_.05:54
whiprushdaniels: you missed the whole slashdot thing for your intervie while you were gone. heh.05:55
danielswhiprush: heh, I caught up on that a couple of days later05:56
whiprushyour fdo thing for the kde conference was sweet, btw, from what I saw from the fluendo coverage.05:57
whiprushthat second dude asking questions was gunning for you, heh.05:57
danielsheh :)06:01
danielsyeah, the small dude was aseigo06:01
danielsmartin konold was being a dick, though06:01
whiprushoh, I couldn't hear the name, was that the guy? the one whiner dude.06:02
jdub_mdz: any weirdarse tricks to get ipw2200 going?06:03
mdzjdub_: nope, Just Works for me06:03
jdub_as of sounder 8?06:04
mdzapt-get install linux-image- and it goes06:07
mdzis the driver not getting loaded?06:07
fabbionemdz: can you approve the sync for freenet6?06:07
jdub_driver's getting loaded06:08
jdub_it's using firmware_class06:08
jdub_but it's not getting any linkage06:08
jdub_output from iwconfig is basically bare beyond the essid06:09
jdub_no ap06:09
mdzfabbione: didn't I?06:12
fabbionemdz: i don't see any answer in my inbox 06:12
fabbioneyou approved lvm2 and it is done06:13
mdzI must have confused the two06:13
mdzsent now06:13
fabbionethanks :-)06:13
jdub_never mind06:15
jdub_it's not grokking my ap06:16
whiprushwill there be a sounder 9 prior to the public release? Or should I test 8?06:16
whiprushI missed it by a few days06:16
jdub_grab 8, or a daily06:19
danielsjdub_: does explicitly calling 'key off' help?06:19
jdub_one sec06:20
jdub_upgrading via some random network06:20
jdub_not my own! gar!06:20
whiprushI'm wondering how people are going to handle the sudo thing. It certainly demolished all my bad habits. 06:20
jdub_mdz: approx how long does it take you to do i386 and ppc installs?06:22
mdzjdub_: not long, why?06:22
mdzwhiprush: I think the current daily is no good06:22
mdzsounder 8 is probably your best bet06:22
mdzit has a couple of known issues, but nothing an apt-get upgrade won't fix06:23
mdzColin's announcement to the sounder mailing list describes them06:23
whiprushthe sources.list still point to the cd, or do I need to update it manually?06:23
jdub_mdz: i need times :)06:24
mdzjdub_: I'll time it the next time I go through06:24
mdzremind me06:24
whiprushok, I'll redo the laptop install, I doubt there will be any major problems, but I'll report to the list anyway.06:24
mdzwhiprush: you'll need to uncomment the sources.list entries for ftp.n-n-y.com06:24
mdzto get the latest packages06:24
lamont118 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.06:25
lamontman - I just upgraded yesterday or so, it seems...06:25
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jdub_this is fast06:32
mdzyour laptop?06:33
Riffis this the dell-crack300?06:33
Riffwell, it's gotta be faster then the toilet seat, hasn't it?06:33
jdub_it's only a 1.4GHz centrino06:34
jdub_but blammy fucking faster than willow06:34
Riffwith 1MB of fucking cache06:34
Rifflet's just cover that again...06:34
Riff1MB of fucking cache!06:34
Riffof course it's fast06:34
Riffhow much cache do I have?06:35
Riff[davyd@pingu ~] $ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "cache size"06:35
Riffcache size      : 512 KB06:35
Riffthe new 2gig centrinos have 2MB as well06:35
Riffso not only is that faster then this CPU, it has 4 times the fucking cache06:35
whiprushthe dothans do, they go as low as 1.2 ghz, with the 2mb cache.06:35
=== Riff continues to be bitter
Riffwhiprush: I didn't know they went that low06:35
RiffI've only seen 2gig versions06:35
danielsyour machine is called pingu? that's so rad.06:35
whiprushyeah, it's sick. 06:35
danielsRiff: you just made my day :)06:36
Riffdaniels: stephanie's is called pinga06:36
whiprushRiff: the wattage difference from the banias centrino's is significant also. I've seen 20%+ improvement in battery life with the new chips.06:37
Riffwhiprush: now if only someone would manufacture a new laptop I want to buy06:37
Keybukthe P-M is a sweet processor as well06:37
Keybukit massively outperforms the P-3 and P-406:37
RiffKeybuk: could this be anything to do with it's 1MB OF CACHE!!?!?!?!06:38
KeybukRiff: it's also because it wasn't designed by Intel Marketing06:38
danielsRiff: have you heard elmo's favourite song?06:38
Riffand the fact it's pipeline isn't 4 quadzillion instructions long06:38
whiprushRiff: yeah I'm waiting for fujitsu to put them in their P series.06:38
Keybukthe P-4 was basically a "<Marketing> we want you to double the clock speed" ... "<Engineers> ok, we'll cheat, and double the pipeline length"06:38
Riffwhiprush: I haven't looked at Fujitsu laptops, are they any good?06:38
KeybukP-M uses most of its cache for instruction window and ROB stuff06:39
Riffdaniels: undoubtedly, as Stephanie is a muppets fanatic06:39
whiprushthe P series is fantastic. Their battert life easily tops 10 hours.06:39
Riffhowever, you may have to remind me06:39
Keybuk1MB is kinda useful for that :)  especially with it's branch prediction magic06:39
RiffI was looking at an IBM X40, except that it doesn't have a synaptic touchpad06:39
KeybukRiff: yeah, that's why I didn't buy one06:39
Riffwhich I found offensive to my delicate nature06:39
Keybukthey're also a bit under-specced for the price06:39
whiprushMy current dell laptop has a P4-M, which is an atrocious chip, thing heats up like the sun and lasts 3 hours with dual batteries. Weight is about ... 10 pounds. :(06:40
Riffthat's just IBM06:40
Keybuk1.2Ghz instead of 1.6 or 1.706:40
Keybukwhiprush: you mean a P-M ... there isn't a P4-M06:40
Keybukor a P-4 ?06:40
RiffKeybuk: sure there is06:40
RiffI have one in here06:40
whiprushthere was a Pentium 4-M.06:40
lamontjdub: so what's the debugging artwork picture of?06:40
jdub_lamont: the background?06:40
Keybukugh, that sounds like a marketing name06:40
whiprushit was a horrible chip.06:40
Riffthe sticker clearly says Pentium-4M06:40
lamontyou tell me a street and I'm gonna scream06:40
jdub_lamont: a road and the sky06:40
RiffKeybuk: I think it has extra speedstep crack06:40
Keybukah, that'd figure06:41
lamontwas wondering if that was your house or something... :-)06:41
whiprushIt's a P4 with half the cache and speedstep. Horrible.06:41
jdub_lamont: it's actually a garrett le sage photo, from the USA somewhere :)06:41
lamontah, ok06:41
lamontfinally had few enough windows on the screen to notice it.06:41
Keybukquite why you'd put speedstep in a Netburst processor is just silly06:41
Keybuk"we'll scale down the speed of a processor designed specifically to fake faster clock speeds"06:42
whiprushYou're telling me ... it's a menace. Can barely tolerate it on the lap with the heat.06:42
whiprushThe newer dell's with the P-M's however, are sweet. The 2Ghz one will hang with any desktop chip.06:43
whiprushHP's new blade servers use P-M's, totally sweet.06:43
Keybukwell, the fact a 2Ghz P-M performs like a 3+Ghz P-4 helps06:43
jdub_thom: DUDE! I HAVE THE BEST BUG FOR YOU!06:44
lifelessrun away06:44
whiprushthe 1.0 thru 1.4 dothan's are ultra-low-voltage too, perfect laptop stuff, run great, and the fan doesn't even kick on.06:44
Riffso you're telling me I can get a 1.4 gig P-M with 2MB of cache06:45
KeybukI can generally keep my laptop on my lap, only big compiles warm it up ... and then the extra fan comes on and my legs are happy again06:45
Riffand it will suck no power, and generally rock my world?06:45
lamontdoko about?06:45
whiprushwell, the chip is out, wether the mfg's are shipping them yet is another thing.06:45
whiprushdell for sure is shipping them06:45
RiffI don't much care of Dell06:45
whiprushAnd certain IBM's also. But it depends on how you pick stuff on their website.06:46
jdub_i have the battery module loaded06:46
jdub_and there's nothing in /proc/acpi/battery/06:46
Riffjdub_: apparently you don't have a battery06:46
Keybukjdub_: bust DSDT ?06:46
Riffyour laptop runs off a small nuclear generator06:46
jdub_i have two :)06:46
jdub_i'm plugged into AC06:47
whiprushjdub_: you don't still have that nasty ass green toilet seat ibook do you?06:47
jdub_with one battery in the docking station06:47
jdub_and one battery in the laptop06:47
KeybukRiff: HP are only shipping the nc4010 with 1.7 1MB cache at the moment06:47
jdub_whiprush: that's what i'm typing on now, but i just got a new lappy today06:47
whiprushoh, nice.06:47
whiprushI'm looking for a new laptop myself, I really want a 15" powerbook, but I hear the ppc support for non-free codecs is kind of crap.06:49
Riff10.6" screen"06:49
Riffratio of 5:306:50
RiffI assume 10.6" is measured diagonally across the LCD surface06:50
jdub_chris dibona works at google now06:51
=== edd waves
jdub_yo edd06:53
jdub_edd: dude!06:54
jdub_i have bluetooth ready hardware :)06:54
eddroughly in your timezone for once. well, PST.06:54
eddjdub_: cool. i hope it just works :)06:54
Riffapparently the dimensions of this screen are in negative space06:54
jdub_and going to get a bluetooth phone too :)06:54
lamontmdz around?06:54
=== Riff thinks for a while about that
=== edd fears if more people use his software he'll actually have to finish iit
danielsedd: yo :)06:55
danielsjdub_: the k700i is a very nice phone06:55
danielsedd: i use g-p-m and g-o-s, as well as the other gnome-bluetooth stuff, and it's mad phat06:56
jdub_it looks like cock06:56
jdub_the T630 looks nice though06:56
danielseh? the k700i looks like love06:56
danielsnice screen, too06:56
Keybukwait for the T700, it's rumoured to be sex itself06:58
whiprushhey edd I dug your ifolder blog entry. One could almost get away with packinging it in experimental. *cough*07:00
eddwhiprush: heh. i think it's a little too buggy right now. but it wouldn't harm to play with the packaging07:01
whiprushhttp://www.whiprush.org/2004/08/edd_dumbill_loo.html <--- I did my own thing but I don't think your blog does trackbacks.07:02
whiprushit works great expect for the "sync when I feel like it" part. heh.07:02
danielsKeybuk: probably $bling when it comes out here, though07:03
danielsKeybuk: the k700i is a mere $au700 outright (not simlocked), and that's the exact same as the t63007:03
Keybukit's cheapish here07:05
Keybukbut it's aimed at the teen market anyway (the "K" is for "Kids")07:05
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Keybukthere's an S700i coming out RSN (Swivel phone)07:06
jdub_Keybuk: tjat07:06
jdub_Keybuk: that's daniels' market07:06
Keybukgood point07:06
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jdubthat must be next door07:07
Keybukwe know there's a T700i coming soon because07:08
Keybuka) it would be logical07:08
Keybukb) there's been previews of it07:08
Keybukc) they've started listing it under "Supported" for things like the power adapter07:08
eddi tried to buy a cellphone here in the US today. no go with no SSN or US credit card07:08
danielsheh :)07:08
danielsedd: ah, suck :\07:08
danielsi tried buying one in the uk, but the fascists simlock everything07:08
Keybukdaniels: cheap to unlock though07:09
edddaniels: walk to the nearest market and pay a few quid for them to unlock it07:09
Keybukwas someone's guess at what it would look like07:10
danielsthe k700i was effectively free, anywya07:11
danielsold plan expired, $0 to get the same terms with a k700i07:11
Riffwoo, people are moving out of the house07:12
danielsand it also comes with my telco's firmware, not vodafone's :P07:12
Riffthis means I'm going to need to transplant the router into a new case07:13
Riffbecause he wants his case back07:13
Riffand I'm going to have to by a new printer07:13
=== Riff wonders how much a colour laser printer costs
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pittiMorning guys!07:15
lamontjamesh: you around?07:18
danielsthe other good thing about a k700i is that two sim cards fit quite nicely between the battery and the cover07:18
jameshlamont: yeah.07:19
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=== lamont declares victory, heads to bed.
danielslamont: night dude07:27
tvonIs nothing done with removable media at this point?07:46
pittitvon: what do you mean in particular?08:00
tvonpitti: ah, not very clear was I?  I'm talking about desktop icons and automounting.  I popped a CF card into my laptop and there were some log messages but no mounting or icons.  08:03
tvonI know there is a thread on the list about this stuff but I wasn't sure what was "supposed" to be happening with the current setup08:04
danielshah! found someone with 18 active uids in his gpg key; i'm not the worst.08:11
jdub_so i don't know what this means, but supposedly i need a new dsdt08:11
jdub_which i have 08:11
jdub_but then i need some compiler08:11
jdub_from intel, which i can't build08:11
jdub_and then i need to rebuild my kernel08:11
jdub_which i swore i would not do when using ubuntu08:12
jdub_some acpi thing08:12
fabbionemdz: so what is the consensum about apt lines?08:15
mdzfabbione: my feeling is that security and warty-via-network should be treated the same08:16
Riffjdub_: yeah, the DSDT is the map of ACPI thingoes you get from the bios08:16
Riffso the kernel knows where to look for things08:17
mdzjdub_: why do you need a compiler for that?08:17
Riffyou should just be able to patch your kernel and compile with gcc08:17
jdub_there's some intel iasl special acpi compiler thingy08:17
mdzjdub_: they don't just give you a binary blob?08:17
Riffjdub_: grahame bowland just did some stuff with this08:17
Rifffor his laptop08:17
pittitvon: actually it should automatically mount the device (see Computer window), and (unless you disabled it) a Nautilus window with the Card's contents should pop up08:17
Riffmail grahame@angrygoats.net08:17
jdub_most of the ones on acpi.sf.net are not blobs08:17
Riffhe should know what to do08:18
pittitvon: I would be interested in debugging this.08:18
pittitvon: does the device appear in the Device Manager?08:18
pittitvon: (i. e. in hal-device-manager)08:18
tvonone min08:18
fabbionemdz: ok.. i will see how complex it is to do something cool..08:18
fabbionemdz: but i would like a general consensum before implementing the changes08:19
mdzfabbione: Mark and I agree that supported should be made available if there is a network, even if we are doing a CD install08:20
fabbionemdz: ok... fine by me.. i will do the changes today08:21
tvonhal keeps crappping out it seems08:21
pittitvon: so it does not show your CF reader?08:22
fabbionemdz: do we agree to keep universe out?08:22
fabbionemdz: or better.. commented out08:22
pittitvon: actually you should see the device itself and one or more volumes08:22
mdzfabbione: I think so, yes08:23
mdzat least until we have some barrier in place08:23
tvonpitti: I'm getting some sorta loop here.  08:24
pittitvon: a hal loop? THAT sounds interesting08:24
pittitvon: what do you mean08:24
pittitvon: ?08:24
tvonpitti: http://paste.plone.org/137608:25
pittitvon: BTW, yesterday I tested an USB CF reader myself, worked perfectly...08:25
pittitvon: I'l look08:25
tvonI get a "Lexar ATA Flash" showing up in h-d-v..and it pops back and forth between having a volume under it and not08:25
pittitvon: ugh! why does udev create and remove the device?08:26
pittitvon: did you change anything in udev's rules?08:26
tvonpitti: nope08:26
tvonthe line in question (29) is here:08:27
tvonBUS="ide", KERNEL="hd[a-z] *", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/removable.sh %k", RESULT="1", NAME="%k", MODE="0660", GROUP="plugdev"08:27
pittitvon: ah, is this a PCMCIA card reader?08:27
tvonI believe so.  Its the onboard CF reader on an X3108:28
pittitvon: ah, since these are neither USB nor FireWire, we currently don't support automounting them08:28
pittitvon: this will hopefully be sorted out in Hoary, but not for Warty any more08:29
pittitvon: the problem is that we don't want to automount fixed hard disks08:29
pittitvon: but it is very hard to decide which device node is a fixed one and which is a PCMCIA08:29
pittitvon: in fact, apart from the fact that the PCMCIA node may appear later, there is nothing in the kernel nor in sysfs that tells us that the PCMCIA thingy is removable08:29
pittitvon: but still, this udev loop looks scary08:30
pittitvon: is the device node actually removed and created? Can you see this by polling ls -l /dev/hde* ?08:31
tvonmhm, all the usual hde's are there, how can I tell?08:32
tvon(the card is out now and they are there)08:32
tvonpitti: card is out, but I'm getting this every few seconds in daemon.log:08:32
tvonSep  9 02:32:43 localhost udev[4492] : removing device node '/dev/hde1'08:33
tvonmore loopy goodness08:33
pittitvon: udev keeps adding hde1 although the card is out?08:33
tvonnah, its removing it now it seems08:33
tvonre-added the card while watching the log, it tries to make all the /dev/hde's but they already exist08:35
tvonShould they already exist?08:35
tvonnm, they must have been created last on an earlier load08:36
pittitvon: actually not, udev should only create devices that actually exist, not all of hde1 to hde24234234 in advance08:36
mdzand they should be removed when the device goes away08:40
pittitvon: right. but the cardmgr is the one that seems to create these devices08:40
pittitvon: they probably still exist from an earlier invocation of cardmgr08:41
mdzcardmgr tries to create device nodes? eek08:41
pittitvon,mdz: I've got an idea: udev wants to create these device nodes as root:plugdev, so it probably deletes the existing ones and creates them again08:41
pittitvon,mdz: maybe cardmgr does the opposite...08:42
pittimdz: but you are right, cardmgr should not care about creating devices (but it says so in the log)08:42
pittimdz: a lot of failed mknod messages08:42
pittitvon: BTW, I just got an idea how to get your card reader working :-)08:43
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pittitvon: if "line 29" applied, this must mean that /sys/block/hde/removable is '1' on your system. Can you please verify that?08:44
pittitvon: if so, then the change in pmount is trivial08:44
tvonpitti: yup08:45
pittimdz: what do you think about the following pmount policy change: "device is removable" -> "device is removable || device node is writable by the user"?08:45
mdzpitti: if cardmgr tries to create devices, we should just disable that08:46
mdzbecause udev will handle it08:46
mdzpcmcia generates hotplug events08:46
pittimdz: since udev assigns the plugdev group to removable nodes, the user can write the device anyway08:46
pittimdz: agreed, I will look at cardmgr08:46
pittitvon: Great! This did not work on another PCMCIA card, but then at least we can support some (including yours :-) )08:47
tvonpitti: lovely :)08:47
pittitvon: if mdz agrees, that is08:47
mdzpitti: I am not so sure about that policy change08:47
tvoncardmgr seems to be making them all root:root08:47
pittitvon: eek08:48
pittitvon: I will beat the hell^W^W device creation out of cardmgr08:48
pittimdz: but if the user has full write rights on the device anyway it should not be too critical to allow him to mount it, dont?08:48
mdzpitti: I am not so sure08:49
pittimdz: okay, I will postpone that08:49
pittimdz: we just should think over that. But before I'll deal with cardmgr08:49
mdzmounting lets you command something to happen in the kernel08:50
mdzwhereas being able to write to the device is purely a user concept08:50
pittimdz: right. OTOH we allow it on other removeable devices, too...08:50
pittimdz: udev will only put removable devices in plugdev08:50
mdzyes, and I want to avoid being more liberal than that08:50
mdzthere could be block devices that the user can write to which are not meant to be mounted08:51
mdzand we should not let them attempt it08:51
pittimdz: so pmount should check that it is an IDE/SCSI volume08:51
pittimdz: (which would be a good idea anyway)08:52
mdzthat is not trivial to check, considering that Linus is always threatening to randomize the major device numbers :-)08:52
pittimdz: I actually thought of looking into sysfs08:52
mdzI think that is probably the correct approach08:52
pittimdz: I will think over it. I report back this evening. Before I will fix cardmgr and start to go over the security review08:52
pittimdz: BTW, I have to change pumount to support lazy unmount. Do you see any problem with this?08:53
pittimdz: we need the support to better handle the case if the user just rips off his devices08:53
pittimdz: thom will modify hal to lazily umount removed (but still mounted) devices08:53
pittimdz: he wants to call pumount -l for that08:54
mdzpitti: what needs to change in order to support it?08:54
mdzpitti: yes, I agree, we need to try to handle that case as well as possible08:54
pittimdz: i have to add an option '-l', pass it to umount08:55
pittimdz: and I have to replace the check "device node exists" by "device node exists or -l is given"08:55
pittimdz: because if the user removes the device, /dev/sdxx will not be there any more for unmounting08:55
mdzpitti: in that case, you may as well just remove the check for whether the device node exists08:55
pittimdz: but we still have the check that the device node must be present in mtab08:55
pittimdz: so I guess that's okay08:56
pittimdz: I will leave it in pmount and throw it out of pumount, I guess08:56
tvonAight, bedtime08:56
pittimdz: Okay, I can throw it out completely, but it does not hurt; maybe it saves from erroneous calls (not from malicious ones)08:56
mdzpitti: ok, if it protects against some error cases08:57
tvonnight folks08:57
mdzas long as we are not relying on it for security08:57
mdztvon: night08:57
pittitvon: good night! Can I bother you when you got up with a new cardmgr?08:57
tvonpitti: sure, I'll give it a whirl08:57
pittimdz: no, we don't.08:57
tvonpitti: just /msg me or something when you want me to try something08:57
pittimdz: if a device is mounted and the user mounted it, he should be able to umount it even if the node disappeared08:58
pittimdz: that's reasonable, I think08:58
pittitvon: Good night!08:58
mdzpitti: I just noticed somethin which does not look right08:59
mdz    if( !realpath( argv[1] , device ) ) {08:59
mdz        perror( "Error: could not determine real path of the device" );08:59
mdz        return -1;08:59
mdz    }08:59
mdz    /* does the device start with DEVDIR? */08:59
mdz    if( strncmp( argv[1] , DEVDIR, sizeof( DEVDIR )-1 ) ) { 08:59
mdzI think this ^^^^ should look at device, not argv[1] 08:59
pittimdz: argh!08:59
pittimdz: right, this was correct before I checked with realpath.08:59
mdzbedtime for me08:59
pittimdz: thanks!08:59
mdzgood night08:59
pittimdz: good night!09:00
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=== silbs [~jane@dumbledore.hbd.com] has joined #ubuntu
pittisilbs: Good morning!09:01
danielssilbs: morning09:06
silbsgood morning!09:15
sabdflanybody else out there think warty is starting to look really slick?09:32
pittisabdfl: I talked to sb about our current security policy and its implementation, he was really impressed :-)09:33
pittisabdfl: yesterday I showed the handling of removable devices to a Windows user, he was impressed that it "just worked" without installing any driver and stuff09:34
pittisabdfl: so, yes! 09:34
danielsso we have the full remove thing happening now?09:35
pittidaniels: see the mailing list. Right now nothing changed yet09:35
pittidaniels: but thom and I currently handle the "just rip it off" case09:36
danielsawesome :)09:36
pittidaniels: which should actually work not too badly09:36
danielscongrats, that's sensational09:36
pittidaniels: unless, of course, there are still processes that want to write to the device. These are lost, but we cannot help that09:36
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fabbioneKamion: i am keeping a lock on base-config09:38
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=== thom yawns
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu
=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Tue Sep 7 21:03:40 2004
=== #ubuntu [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu
=== Topic for #ubuntu: SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
=== Topic (#ubuntu): set by Kamion at Tue Sep 7 21:03:40 2004
pittithom: morning!09:57
fabbionehi pitti09:58
fabbionemorning thom09:58
pittithom: I'm just at preparing an updated pumount which provides option -l for lazy unmount. Should help you with your hal changes09:58
pittifabbione: Morning!09:58
jameshI've got the trash applet using the -accept icon when you hover over it now10:01
sabdfljamesh: awesome10:03
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fabbionehey sabdfl 10:05
fabbionehow is life on the other side of the world?10:06
jameshsabdfl: I don't know whether it is feasible to change the drag icon in time for Warty though.10:06
Riffwhich trash applet is this?10:07
sabdflthe one on your default ubuntu desktop panel, bottom right corner :-)10:07
Riffassuming I currently had one ;)10:08
danielsgcc -m32 -nostdlib -r  spaceorb.o -o spaceorb_drv.o10:08
danielsspaceorb.o: file not recognized: File truncated10:08
danielscollect2: ld returned 1 exit status10:08
danielsmake[7] : *** [spaceorb_drv.o]  Error 110:08
sabdflfabbione: good day today so far, lots of catching up. how's dannemark?10:08
danielsjesus, my system is cursed10:08
RiffI'm wondering if it's the one I was intending to push upstream10:08
sabdflare there several?10:09
Riffno idea10:09
sabdflthis is Trash Applet 0.2 (c) 2004 Michael Stikkes10:10
jameshRiddell: http://luon.net/~michiels/trashapplet/10:10
jame1what's the expected outcome of plugging a usb-audio device into an ubuntu machine?10:10
sabdflah, Michiel Sikkes10:10
danielsaieeee, a gcc bug10:10
Riffjamesh: ok, I think this is the one I was mailed about10:11
jameshWhat would look cool would be to use Xrender cursors for dnd10:13
fabbioneKamion: base-config ubuntu15 is up, but i will need a cd (even a daily) to test it completlely10:13
jameshso you'd be dragging a semi-transparent icon for the file10:13
fabbioneKamion: since there are some differences in installing from cdrom and simulating an installation10:13
danielsyou could drag a semi-transparent icon for the file easily, but it would look like complete crap10:17
danielsa) doing stuff like that is massively prone to tearing, doubly so if you don't do vsync (we don't), b) updates that often wouldn't be the best on the cpu10:17
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jameshhi seb128 10:20
seb128hey jamesh :)10:20
seb128got your mail, not replied yet10:20
jameshseb128: cool.  Will have more patches soon :)10:21
jameshdaniels: I remember jg and keithp talking about using Xrender cursors to handle semi-transparent window moves in the window manager ...10:22
jameshconvert window contents to picture, adjust alpha, create cursor10:23
fabbionedaniels, mdz: X drivers update... as far as i can tell we need to update the nv driver and the wacom driver. daniels also had the ati stuff pending and there is a patch for r200 in the BTS to fix a segfault (or something similar)10:24
danielsit's doable10:24
danielsfabbione: i think mdz is asleep, but i believe the r4xx verdict is warty point release10:24
fabbioneshould we take the chance? or we will leave it for hoary?10:24
danielsfabbione: do you mean the r200 dri stuff?10:24
danielsfabbione: if so, i'm torn -- it's a pretty huge semantic change, but it does come from upstream cvs, and r200 dri seems quite solid there10:25
danielsfabbione: i don't see the harm if it's out there on a plate for us10:25
fabbionedaniels: yeah it's a 1600 lines patch :(10:25
danielsfabbione: i'll take the wacom stuff10:25
fabbionedaniels: what about the nv?10:25
danielsfabbione: i think we should just take the entire nv driver from 6.8, tbh10:26
fabbionedaniels: i don't mind if you want to do the updates at all10:26
danielsfabbione: cool10:26
fabbionedaniels: it was just to take a decision and coordinate10:26
fabbionedaniels: just send me the usual ubuntu15 -> ubuntu16 patch10:26
danielsfabbione: well, if i take wacom and i'll cop the ati stuff as well, do you want nv?10:26
danielsfabbione: yeah10:26
danielsfabbione: i'm chasing up some far more serious issues atm, however10:26
danielsbut i'll be able to look at it tomorrow10:27
fabbionedaniels: i would rather prefer if you update stuff from upstream10:27
fabbionedaniels: since you know where to dig and what to replace10:27
fabbionedaniels: i can test the nv driver and the ati, if that's what you want10:27
danielsfabbione: ok, that'd be good thanks10:31
danielsi can test ati with the 8500 and 9000 i have here, but yeah, i have no nv or wacom hardware10:31
danielsso i'll get jaq to test wacom, and if you could test nv, that'd be great10:31
fabbioneyes i can test nv and one ati (mobility something)10:36
fabbione3 nv actually :-)10:36
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sabdflhi Kinnison10:48
fabbionehey Kinnison 10:50
=== Kinnison hugs fabbione and waves at sabdfl
pittithom: are you already working at the lazy unmount hal?10:53
danielsKinnison: hey dude10:53
Kinnisonheyhi daniels10:53
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Mithrandirhiya, Kinnison 11:08
=== Kinnison bounces Mithrandir
fabbionehey Mithrandir 11:14
Mithrandirhiya fabio11:14
=== fabbione tests crack of the day with new base-config
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Mithrandirwhat is the workaround for the "there was an error loading the theme Human"?11:21
pittiMithrandir: just upgrade to the newest ubuntu-artwork package. This worked for me11:22
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Mithrandirpitti: thanks, that helped11:25
pittiMithrandir: it doesn't look very human yet, though :-(11:27
thompitti: yes11:27
pittithom: I want to add lazy unmounting to pumount, but that got more difficult than I thought11:28
pittithom: because if the device node is not present any more, I cannot stat /dev/whatever to find out the major device number of the device to be removed11:28
pittithom: this means that I cannot check if the device is removable11:28
fabbionepitti: caching them somewhere at mount time?11:28
pittithom: and I cannot just use the name to lookup /sys/block/<device name> because devfs may be used11:29
Mithrandirkeep a state file, yes.11:29
pittifabbione, Mithrandir: I thought about this, but this involves many upstream changes11:29
pittifabbione, Mithrandir: but I guess I cannot do without one.11:30
fabbionepitti: you can still push the changes back to upstream ;)11:30
Mithrandirpitti: on mount, echo devicename into /var/run/pmount/$username, on umount request, check if it exists in /v/r/p/$username and if not, refuse.11:30
pittithom: I just wanted to say that this "little" item might last a bit longer because it might need to be discussed with mdz11:30
pittiMithrandir: something along these lines, yet11:30
thompitti: no worries, i shall catch up on my email first then :-)11:31
Mithrandirpitti: it sounds fairly simple and non-intrusive to me, but I haven't looked at the source code11:31
pittiMithrandir: it is easy, but mdz abhors code changes for new features at this stage, so we must get this absolutely correct 11:31
Mithrandirpitti: ok11:32
pittiMithrandir: I don't really like the fact to make pumount depend on external status information...11:32
pittifabbione: yes, of course I will push the changes upstream. upstream is said to be a cooperative guy, up to now he always adopted my patches :-)11:33
pittiBTW, does anybody have PCMCIA drives?11:34
MithrandirI have PCMCIA smartmedia cards and such11:34
Mithrandir(but not on my ubuntu system, though my gf has it on her)11:34
pittiMithrandir: I just uploaded a new pcmcia-cs which does not create and remove device nodes on its own when devfs/udev is used11:34
pittiMithrandir: and I need somebody to test it. tvon will do it, but he is asleep11:35
pittiMithrandir: it's version 3.2.5-7ubuntu6, should appear in about 15 minutes 11:35
Mithrandirok, I'll walk over to her in about that time, then.11:35
pittiMithrandir: thanks!11:36
Mithrandirhas the upgrade-doesn't-add-the-initial-user-to-plugdev been solved yet, btw?11:36
pittiMithrandir: no11:36
pittiMithrandir: this is unlikely to be solved within Warty11:36
pittiMithrandir: somebody proposed an external upgrade-to-warty package/script11:37
pittiMithrandir: we cannot just put random users into this group11:37
pittiMithrandir: I just got an idea about the state file: what if an USB drive is ripped off (/dev/sda), then I hotplug a real SCSI disk (/dev/sda as well)? The user should not be allowed to pumount it then.11:39
pittiMithrandir: okay, this is a pathological case, but still...11:39
Kinnisonpitti: if a removable drive is removed; doesn't the kernel automatically unmount it?11:39
pittiKinnison: unfortunately not11:39
Mithrandirpitti: you mean hotplug scsi drives aren't considered removable? ;P11:39
fabbionepitti: you can still try to detect the device & co and use the state as last resource11:39
Kinnisonpitti: can you do it by filesystem uuid?11:40
Mithrandirpitti: and, won't pmount just mount it under /media/$UUID or something?11:40
pittiMithrandir: well, in the current policy we only regard USB and firewire devices as removable11:40
Mithrandirpitti: I was kidding.11:40
pittiMithrandir: that's right, the mount point must be below /media/. That could help us.11:40
Mithrandirit's not perfect, but it's a good start.11:41
pittiMithrandir: I just want to avoid the case that root hotplugs a new SCSI device as /usr and the user can umount it11:41
pittiMithrandir: but you're right, I still check that the mountpoint is /media/*, so this will not work11:41
Mithrandirpitti: and that the mount point is mounted with user=$USER11:41
Mithrandir(in mtab)11:41
pittiMithrandir: right, uid=...11:43
pittiMithrandir: but I don't know if this is the case with every file system11:43
MithrandirI think mount uses it to decide whether you can umount or not?11:44
pittiAFAIK mount looks in /etc/fstab, whether it has the 'user' option11:44
Mithrandiryup, it does.11:45
pittiMithrandir: but actually, isn't it enough to compare uid=xxx with getuid() in pmount?11:45
MithrandirI would think so.11:45
pittiMithrandir: then we could circumvent the state file completely11:45
pittithom: did you follow the discussion?11:45
Mithrandirof course, if user mounts a SCSI drive over where a thumbdrive was, you lose.11:45
Mithrandir(as in, the user will be able to umount the hotplug SCSI drive)11:46
pittiMithrandir: right, but if the admin mounts a SCSI drive with uid=1000 (or so), he loses anyway11:46
thompitti: yeah11:46
thomlooks reasonable from where i'm sitting11:46
pittithom, Mithrandir: I will prepare an updated pmount package, but won't upload it yet.11:46
pittiI will upload it to my chinstrap homepage, discuss it with mdz, and when I got his blessing, upload it11:46
pittiin the meantime thom can use it for testing the new hal11:47
thomsounds good11:47
rburtonwarty will only see my ipod if its in when i boot11:48
thomrburton: does it work correctly in debian? do you not get any events at all when you plug it in post boot?11:49
rburtonjust ieee1394: Node resumed: ID:BUS[0-00:1023]   GUID[000a2700026ede8c] 11:49
rburtonieee1394: Node changed: 0-00:1023 -> 0-01:102311:49
rburtonsbp2 and sd_mod are loaded11:50
rburtoni don't think i need anything else11:50
pittirburton: I checked this with carlos' ipod, worked fine11:50
pittirburton: does the device node appear?11:50
pittithen we lose11:50
=== rburton wonders if i need more modules
Kinnisonsurely hotplug should be loading what is needed?11:51
rburton$ cat /proc/scsi/scsi11:51
rburtonAttached devices:11:51
rburtonsilly thing11:51
pittirburton: Can you ask Carlos about the modules? His' is working fine11:51
pittirburton: Carlos Perell Marn <carlos@pemas.net>11:55
fabbionesecurity.no-name-yet.com is up and rocking11:57
fabbionewith base-config ubuntu15 you will get the apt lines automatically if network is available at install time11:57
fabbioneotherwise you will get them commented out11:57
danielsnice :)11:57
fabbionesame goes for other stuff while installing from cdrom11:58
fabbionebut not universe11:58
=== fabbione goes and cook some decent lunch
=== pitti becomes envious if he hears about decent lunch
thombloody people in forwards timezones12:05
thomi only just had breakfast12:05
pittithom, you are lagging behind. :-)12:05
thomhrm, our dragon appears to have taken up climbing glass windows as a new sport12:09
fabbionethom: ain't my fault if you live in the wrong country ;)12:10
fabbionedaniels: i was just thinking that perhaps the drivers updates should all come as ubuntu patches on top what's in the tree already. It will make it much simpler to revert if something is wrong.12:10
thomfabbione: heh12:11
elmojdub_: ?12:14
rburtonthom: dude, its 11 and you've just had breakfast. get up earlier you slacker12:14
thomrburton: i've been up since 8 :-)12:15
elmo(and if you believe that, there's a bridge over here I could maybe interest you in ;)12:16
elmofabbione: what's with apache?12:18
elmoit's not got an ubuntu version num yet was an ubuntu upload?12:19
fabbioneelmo: nothing wrong.. it's the same as sid, i just upload it myself, without bitching you for a sync12:20
thomelmo: did wireless tools get synced recently?12:20
elmothom: not that I recal12:20
elmofabbione: mm, I thought the policy was that we should sync where possible...12:21
elmothom:  1107 | wireless-tools | 26+27pre22-1 |        122 | 6427 | 2004-06-09 00:00:00 |       212:21
elmo(the date's the install/upload/sync date)12:22
fabbioneelmo: they are exactly the same package.12:22
fabbioneelmo: only s/unstable/warty to make katie happy12:22
elmofabbione: yes, so what?  we could just do uploads for everything and not sync anything12:22
thomelmo: yeah12:22
fabbioneelmo: ok, i didn't do it with bad intention. it was just to avoid extra work for you.12:23
danielsfabbione: hmmm12:35
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elmosweet, the only uninstallables in the archive now is amd64 oo.o12:35
danielsthom: crazney's just in the kitchen cooking dinner (i'm at his place stealing bandwidth)12:36
danielsget a real timezone12:36
Mithrandirelmo: and that I'm building now.  It'll need a bit of NEW love, though.12:39
=== Mithrandir hugs his 100Mbit for that
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=== thom wonders if spiv has gotten up yet so he can reclaim his computer
Kamionfabbione: so, do you need a new CD image then?12:50
fabbioneKamion: yes please..12:52
fabbionei think daily didn't build12:52
Kamionfabbione: it seems to have built fine01:03
Kamioncjwatson@little:~/cdimage/www/daily$ ls 2004090901:03
KamionMD5SUMS  report.html  warty-amd64-1.iso  warty-amd64-1.list  warty-i386-1.iso  warty-i386-1.list  warty-powerpc-1.iso  warty-powerpc-1.list01:03
pittithom: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/pmount/01:05
Mithrandir13:03 <Simira> uh... "xscreensaver: 13:01:59: UNTHROTTLE ClientMessage received, but01:05
Mithrandir               not throttled." ?01:05
Mithrandirmy gf's getting that about every 30s when xscreensaver kicks in.01:05
pittithom: this contains a proposed new package you can test for the hal change01:05
pittithom: I will discuss that with mdz before, so please don't upload hal yet01:06
fabbioneKamion: let me check.. sometimes i rsync and i don't notice stuff01:06
thomMithrandir: that's supressed in the latest default01:06
pittithom: I tested the new pmount quite thoroughly now, so it should work01:06
thompitti: ok01:06
fabbioneKamion: yeah .. it's there.. can you check if it has base-config ubunut15?01:06
elmogar, bugzilla's on crack01:06
fabbioneKamion: and if not.. mind to build an iso for me to test it?01:07
thompitti: so just 'pumount -l /dev/foo', right?01:07
Mithrandirthom: ook01:07
pittithom: yep01:08
pittithom: however, this does only work as the same user who mounted the device01:08
pittithom: this was not checked before01:09
Kamioncjwatson@little:~$ grep base-config cdimage/www/daily/current/*.list01:09
thompitti: uh, that's not gonna work for hal then01:09
Kamionfabbione: building a new one now01:09
pittithom: I just got the same thought01:09
thomsince it'll be thom mounting, and hal unmounting01:09
pittithom: actually this should be done by gvm01:09
fabbioneKamion: thanks01:09
thompitti: it can't01:09
pittithom: but we must check this, otherwise users can unmount root-mounted devices which are not in fstab01:09
thomnot with out rewriting huge amounts of hal01:10
pittithom: hal should send a "ripped out" message to gvm, gvm should call pumount01:10
Kamionfabbione: (the .list files are useful - you can do it with isoinfo -l too but it's more tedious)01:10
pittithom: hmmm. Problem.01:10
thompitti: sure, but hal only sends the udi, not the device info01:10
fabbioneKamion: yes .. i mirror only the .iso01:10
fabbioneisoinfo.. hmmm /me checks01:11
rburtonooh, so my ipod just got mounted with pmount01:11
pittithom: gvm is capable of figuring out the device from an udi01:11
pittirburton: great! What was missing?01:11
thompitti: not after the device is removed, it isn't01:11
rburtonpitti: :) you have to unload all usb and firewire kernel modules and restart hotplug01:11
pittithom: BTW, this was crap anyway. gvm should not do it, but gnome-vfs201:11
Kamionfabbione: the idiom is 'isoinfo -lR -i whatever.iso'01:11
pittirburton: sounds quite straightforward. </irony>01:12
rburtonpitti: yeah, easy. carlos said he'll file a bug when he remembers with the details01:12
thompitti: shrug01:12
pittithom: if I tell mdz that I modified pumount to allow hal to unmount any device, he will kill me01:13
fabbioneKamion: i see.. i was RTFM ;)01:13
thompitti: ok, i'll look at fixing hal to expose the device that was removed01:13
Kamionfabbione: hm, might need to do a 20040909.2 anyway, just noticed kernels on non-i386 are screwed01:13
thomthat seems more reasonable, and more in line with how hal should work01:13
fabbionejust ping me when it's ready01:13
Kamion(like, they don't have any)01:13
pittithom: can't gnome-vfs figure out the device from the udi?01:13
pittithom: right. hal should not have any policies, including (u)mounts01:14
=== Mithrandir watches OOo build. Almost like watching paint dry.
pittithom: I think gnome-vfs is the right place to do that, and it runs as the normal user01:14
thompitti: the problem is that by the time the removed signal is emitted by hal and recived by g-v-m, the device is gone and hal knows nothing about it, so you can't resolve from udi to device01:14
pittithom: by the time of the removal, isn't it still contained in hal's database?01:15
thompitti: nope01:15
pittithom: this sounds strange. Just before hal purges it from its db (after getting the hotplug message) it still has the device entry01:16
pittithom: can't the message be sent out in between?01:16
pittithom: what does upstream do with this?01:17
thompitti: certainly this is what i'm seeing. when the hal_device_removed callback gets run, hal_device_get_property_string can't get block.device01:18
pittithom: yes, the callback is certainly too late.01:18
thomso we can change the callback to run earlier01:18
pittithom: if that's possible?01:18
thomwhich i will check now01:18
pittithom: sth like hal_device_about_to_be_removed :-)01:18
thompitti: upstream have fixed it by umounting in hal :/01:19
thompitti: *nod*01:19
pittithom: providing a new callback sounds cleaner than just saving the device and using it later01:19
thomyeah, agreed01:19
pittithom: this even sounds general enough to get this upstream01:20
Kamionhm, I forgot to unexclude openoffice.org on powerpc once it got fixed01:20
=== cef waits for sounder8 to download
pittithom: I have to go for another round of fighting with the fiscal authorities, will return later (around 1400 UTC, I hope)01:23
thomdo we want to add a new one, or just change when Device Removed happens? i think the latter might be better - it means we don't change the api01:23
pittithom: hmm. you mean just call deviceRemoved earlier?01:24
pittithom: sounds as if it would make sense, too, then the clients could still query the db01:24
pittithom: I don't know the exact implications of this, however01:24
pittithom: so currently hal removes the db entry and calls the callback?01:24
pittithom: and you want to swap that?01:24
danielswasn't it skanky goth chick?01:24
danielser, nevermind, wrong window01:24
pittithom: sounds reasonable01:25
thompitti: yeah01:25
thomok, i'll give it a go and see01:25
pittithom: thanks! I will look at the interdiff when I'm back01:25
Kamionerk, why did libfribidi0 just disappear out of Desktop?01:25
pittithom: (or, it just will become a patch in debian/patches, I suppose)01:25
pittithom: CU!01:26
elmokamion: it's used by abiword-gnome which is in supported?01:27
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Kamionelmo: yeah, just mailed mdz/jdub, it needs to be in Base really01:32
Kamion(so that base-config can do right-to-left text)01:32
Kamionwhoa; after the kernel fixes and adding openoffice.org, powerpc just ballooned to 578MB01:32
sabdflwhy's it so much larger than x86?01:33
Riffit's that damned spammy assembler language PPC uses01:33
=== Riff smirks
Kamionsabdfl: three kernel variants01:33
Kamionthere's different MMU handling code for power3, power4, and everything else01:33
Kamion(there's an argument that power3 is a little pointless for us to support right now, since we probably can't boot on any such machine anyway due to only really supporting powermac-type machines ...)01:34
Kamionpower4 is what's used in G5 systems, though01:35
cefhrm, I think my upstream is shit, or no-name-yet.com has a slow link01:35
cefI'm betting more on my upstream.. only getting 30KB/s *sigh*01:35
danielscef: dude, other side of the world01:35
Mithrandircef: I tend to get ~600KB/sec from nny.c01:36
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KamionI think there's also something a little bit strange with powerpc ISO generation; it's got 16/17MB extra in the .iso over what du says it should have01:36
cefdaniels: optus is apparently having upstream issues..01:36
KinnisonKamion: how does that compare with the x86 overhead?01:37
KamionKinnison: that's the number compared against x86 overhead01:37
Kamionpowerpc CDs are ISO9660/HFS hybrids, which might well account for it, though01:37
KinnisonKamion: merp; 16 megs more?01:38
KinnisonKamion: I guess HFS hybridisation might cover that01:38
Kamionabout that01:38
Kinnisonhow much is the iso9660 overhead for x86?01:38
Kamiondu says 513MB, the ISO is 509MB01:38
lifelessjust got of the phone with one happy beta tester01:38
Kamionso hard to calculate01:38
lifelessonly complaint was its failure to detect his ATI rage3d graphics card01:39
KinnisonKamion: try du -B 204801:39
Kamionfor powerpc, du says 565MB while the ISO is 578MB01:39
lifelessI've asked him to mail the list.01:39
KamionKinnison: same answer01:39
KinnisonKamion: okay; so it's not du using the wrong block size01:40
cefdaniels: From the Optus website: 'Due to a heavy traffic demand on the international web link, OptusNet customer's may be experiencing slow browsing speeds when attempting to access international sites after 6pm. We are aware of this problem and it is being investigated.'01:40
KamionKinnison: oh, no, sorry; I had already been using -m01:40
KinnisonKamion: is the x86 iso being built with compression?01:40
danielscef: you'd be routing optus->telstra->usa->uk?01:40
danielscef: ah, suck01:40
Kamion-B 2048 says 262264 for i386, 288884 for powerpc01:40
danielslifeless: tell him to mail the list with lspci and lspci -n01:41
KamionKinnison: what, you mean the weird non-standard Rock Ridge extension thing? -z?01:41
danielslifeless: i don't have an authoriative list for r12801:41
KamionKinnison: no, it's not01:41
KinnisonKamion: right01:41
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danielshm, actually, might have some ati devrel docs somewhere for r12801:41
danielsi'll check it out when i get back home01:41
KinnisonKamion: so the files on the x86 ISO should be taking up 537116672 bytes01:41
KinnisonKamion: how big did you say the ISO itself was?01:42
Kamion-rw-r--r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  473008128 Sep  9 12:26 warty-amd64-1.iso01:42
Kamion-rw-r--r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  533405696 Sep  9 12:28 warty-i386-1.iso01:42
Kamion-rw-r--r--    1 cjwatson cdimage  605808640 Sep  9 12:30 warty-powerpc-1.iso01:42
Kinnisonokay; that's really confusing01:42
=== Kinnison ponders
lifelessdaniels: I've emailed him01:43
cefdaniels: optus(melb-syd)-singtel(syd-sanjose)-level3(sanjose-newyork-london)-mnet(london-) and then the traceroute dies01:44
danielswell yeah, i doubt we'd allow traceroute traffic through, but auckland lives in level3 in london, so that sounds about right01:44
cef500ms pings on average.. *sigh*.. might try upping the tcp window scaling size if I can01:45
cefmight help01:45
elmooh, I should do that server side.   duh.01:46
cefdon't set it much higher than 2, or else broken routers REALLY bite you01:46
cefhrm my side is already at 2.. hrm.. wonder if I've got a broken router upstream.. hrm01:47
elmoI mean the tcp_{r,w}mem stuff..01:47
Mithrandirelmo: that would be very nice, yes.01:48
cefok great, I've just got a 15-20kb speed improvementy by going back down to a scale of 001:48
danielscef: if you want, i'll have a full warty mirror soon :)01:52
danielscef: i'm over at crazney's house, rsyncing now01:52
danielsi'd imagine my connection isn't too great either01:52
danielsooo took a *long* time (thanks Mithrandir ;)01:52
cefdaniels: might be faster than currently01:53
cefthough then again, I still need an iso to perform an install off01:54
cefhence why I as asking about jigdo images01:56
=== haggai_ is now known as haggai
danielscef: ah, fair enough02:07
danielsi don't think we quite had jigdo done, did we?02:07
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cefno.. but once we get a stable mirror of files, it's not that hard to generate jigdo files (apparently)02:08
Kinnisongenerating jigdo files can be easy or time-consuming02:08
danielscef: well, if you want to come around and grab the i386 mirror, you're welcome to it02:08
KinnisonSteve McIntyre's JTE stuff makes it fast02:08
=== fabbione kicks his ISP big times
Kamiondaniels: the problem is that we need to generate a snapshot of the archive at the point when the jigdo is generated02:10
Kamionelmo: what's the stayofexecution set to currently?02:10
KinnisonKamion: IIRC 2 real days02:10
KinnisonKamion: elmo upped it when thom complained02:10
Kinnisonunless I'm very broken / remember incorrectly02:11
danielsKamion: how hard would it be to do by hand from today's warty?02:11
Mithrandirhi simira02:11
Kamionso telling the archive to make a snapshot at the point when the jigdo has finished generating would be OK, even if the archive has changed slightly from the start02:11
Kamiondaniels: the world doesn't have access to little, and I don't have shell access to auckland02:11
Kamiondaniels: this makes it difficult02:11
Kamionneed to prepare something which makes a hardlink snapshot of the archive and get elmo to let me ssh-trigger it from little, I think02:12
MithrandirKamion: use pdumpfs or glastree, perhaps?02:12
Mithrandiror just cp -l02:12
KamionMithrandir: oh, there are plenty of ways to do it, it isn't a fundamental problem02:13
thomSOE is 24hours iirc02:14
danielsKamion: oh right, I meant from a local machine02:14
danielswe're in Australia, remember ;)02:14
Kamiondaniels: oh, probably, but haven't done any of the debian-cd integration yet so I don't quite know02:14
danielsKamion: righto, not mjcyh of a muchness02:15
danielsi'll probably just abuse uni's bandwidth for a bit :)02:15
Mithrandirdaniels: rsync works fairly well with CD images02:15
=== Kinnison thought daniels was in ADSL wonderland now
fabbionebah amazing02:16
fabbionei closed my adsl line like 6 months ago.02:17
fabbionenow my ISP claims that it didn't receive the router02:17
fabbioneand that they want the money or the shipping receipt02:17
danielsKinnison: yeah, but i'm on a 4gb bandwidth limit, and 2 of that disappeared within 27h02:18
fabbionehow can tehy pretend a shipping receipt after 6 months...02:18
danielsso i can get bandwidth fine now, it just involves stealing it until nexttep get off their butts and process our plan change request (to unlimited)02:19
Kinnisondaniels: merp02:19
=== thom kicks hal in the nose
=== simira_ [~simira@vpn-22389.vpn-s.ntnu.no] has joined #ubuntu
thomsending the device_removed cllback after you remove the device from the store is so useless it's not funny02:21
daniels(stealing -> using a friend's connection, as in tonight, or going into uni)02:21
danielsthom: sounds sensible to me02:21
lamontMithrandir: is amd64-libs yours or doko's to fix?? (#1114)02:21
thomdaniels: i dare say. next you'll claim that xprint is sensible, too02:21
Mithrandirlamont: either is fine, he uploaded it, though02:22
danielsthom: watch it02:22
Kamion  syslinux |     2.10-1 |      unstable | source, i38602:23
Kamion  syslinux | 2.04-2ubuntu1 |         warty | source, i38602:24
Kamiond'oh, I didn't realize we were that far behind02:24
KamionChanges in 2.09:02:24
Kamion#  Handle video pages correctly when using the API functions.02:24
Kamion# Handle compiling on an x86-64 platform correctly.02:24
lamontI bet that latter one is the ubuntu1 part, yes?02:25
Kamionguessing so, yeah02:25
KamionI'm wondering if newer versions fix the display problems we're seeing02:25
KamionI've not been hearing similar complaints about the Debian installer recently02:25
thomdaniels: i  laugh at your blog entry about mod_c++. just use ISAPI02:27
danielsdoesn't help if you want them to use !iis02:27
thomdaniels: apache2 supports ISAPI cross platform02:28
=== mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu
cefdaniels: I'm almost tempted to drive into the city, sit across the road from maccas with the lappy and the wireless card and leech it form there02:31
cefwoah, 120KB/sec atm02:33
cefif only I could get the 650-700KB/sec that is pretty much the max I can attain.. ho hum *grin*02:34
Kamionthom: what, on Unix too now? didn't know that02:35
KamionIIRC when I was at Zeus, Zeus was the only Unix server doing ISAPI02:36
=== jame1 [~james@c211-30-13-146.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneKamion: did you change something in base-config priority?02:44
fabbionei got all the questions about TZ02:44
Kamionfabbione: no02:48
fabbionehmm weird02:49
fabbioneAHH hold on02:49
thomKamion: yeah, it got fixed up relatively recently in apache202:49
fabbionenever mind02:49
fabbionei knew there was something wrong ;)02:51
fabbioneKamion: do we have a simple way to build cd locally?02:53
fabbionewould be enough :)02:56
danielsthom: stop clouding this discussion with facts02:57
danielsthom: (in all seriousness, that's way cool)02:57
jame1guys, has anyone seen grub failing with 'error 21' before? any idea how to fix it?02:59
Kinnisonis that a boot error; or a grub-install error?02:59
jame1Kinnison: that's a boot error. Sorry.02:59
jame1well, guess that means it's time for install 2 for the night.03:01
=== debianist [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu
debianistg'afternoon all03:06
fabbionehi debianist 03:07
debianisthi fabbione 03:09
debianistyou have any idea why there isn't any program to handle pdf files?03:09
debianisti mean with the correct assoc. without having to fire it up and choose a doc.03:09
seb128because nobody reported the problem before and we have forgotten to modify xpdf to do this03:10
Kamionfabbione: not really, sorry03:10
debianistshall I open a bug?03:10
Kamionfabbione: I tend to pick apart an existing ISO03:11
fabbioneKamion: i am going with another "blind" upload.. i will need you to rebuild the cd after03:11
fabbionewell.. than you need to run something to regenerate the Packages files and so on...03:11
Kamionfabbione: usual procedure is: mount ISO, copy tree, copy in package you want, update Packages file by hand, update Packages.gz, update /dists/warty/Release, run "mkisofs -r -V 'Ubuntu 4.10 i386 Bin-1' -o warty-i386-hacked-1.iso -cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table new-i386"03:12
KamionI've got used to it :)03:12
fabbioneoh yeah03:12
fabbionehold on :-)03:12
fabbionelet me take notes :P03:12
=== debianist is taking note of this also
KamionI've been meaning to write iso-editor to avoid having to do that03:13
fabbioneKamion: ok.. it looks relatively simple03:14
fabbioneit's just a lot of mechanical work03:14
debianistwhy not through it all inside a perlly?03:15
Kamionbecause I can't be bothered03:15
fabbionedebianist: you could take the challenge to do it :-)03:17
debianistto write a script for that?03:17
fabbionedebianist: like getting in input a .deb or a list of debs03:17
fabbioneand create a custom iso from a defined source03:18
debianisthmmm, it sounds rather an interesting job. I'd give it a try, what did Kamion mean with "update Package file by hand = Packages.gz" ?03:19
elmobtw, if any warty folks are bored, it'd be good to fix glide (see #659) so X can be up2date on amd6403:19
fabbionedebianist: well.. if i will tell you i will spoil the fun of it :-)03:19
SteveAis there a known bug that the times in the "list of appointments" under the clock don't match the times in the calendar in evolution?03:20
fabbioneelmo: mdz did it this morning iirc03:20
thomfabbione: no, didn't work03:20
debianistfabbione : you are more than right! spare me those, and i shall be back with mastery :-))03:20
thomelmo: i'll take a look now03:21
=== SteveA wonders where to look up such bugs
fabbionedebianist: they are on the CD... just find them :)03:21
fabbionethom: oh03:21
elmothom: cool, thanks03:21
=== fabbione needs to test base-config before that
fabbionethom: danke03:22
debianistactually, i've been little disappointed to find out warty did most of usb input setup, automagically mounts etc..where did all the fun work go?03:22
jame1ok guys, this time I'm getting grub failing without me having ignored any errors in the ubuntu setup.03:26
cefhrm, just installing sounder8.. F8 at the boot prompt points ppl at the Installation Manual or FAQ on the Debian website03:38
cefactually a lot of those  pages need changing03:39
thomelmo: uploaded, built for me on amd6403:41
debianistfabbione : k, i'll give it a look and take tries at that.03:42
thomwhichever idiot invented sinuses needs a good smacking with a large sword03:42
elmothom: neato thanks, pushing through now03:44
debianistlike in the human body?03:44
thomdebianist: yes03:44
thommine hurt hugely right now03:44
debianistthom : i know what u'r tlking about03:44
debianistthom : they are buggy all the way from startup to me03:44
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=== fabbione tests his first custom cd
fabbionefirst ubuntu custom cd.. even03:46
Kamioncef: yes, can't change them until we have our own equivalents though :)03:49
Kamionfabbione: standard mistake I make is forgetting to change Filename: in Packages03:49
fabbioneKamion: oh.. i just removed the old entry and replaced it with a dpkg-scanpackages output03:50
fabbioneonly for the packages i need03:50
fabbioneand now.. of course03:50
jdub_bdale: around?03:51
fabbionefor a second i tought it was wrong :-))03:51
thomelmo: is X depwaiting on both glide2-dev and glide3-dev?04:02
debianistis the usb drives not shown in (computer || other_place) and (nautilus_popup_only_access)  is taken care of?04:02
elmothom: just 3, it's building now04:06
fabbionesomething isn't clear to me...04:07
fabbionewhy lamont told me that X was building on amd64?04:07
fabbioneand now it was depwaiting?04:08
fabbioneKamion: i will have to upload another base-config04:08
fabbioneKamion: testing on real cd is way different than on simulated installation04:08
fabbioneKamion: other little bugs are coming up04:08
jame1is there a way I can use the ubuntu CD as a rescue CD? I have now thoroughly mangled my bootloader.04:09
Kamionjame1: boot, run through the UI up until the start of partitioning (it hasn't written anything to the disk at that point, but does have all the necessary modules etc.)04:11
Kamionjame1: then switch to tty2, mount any partitions you need, chroot if necessary04:11
jame1Kamion: will that let me see my RAID partitions?04:12
fabbionejame1: yes it should...04:12
KamionI would expect so, yes04:12
fabbionein the worst case modprobe the raid level you need04:12
fabbioneand start the raid manually04:12
Kamionif not, md-modules-*.udeb is on the CD; install it with udpkg -i04:12
fabbioneat that point you should have it available04:13
Kamionthe installer is basically a package-managed mini-Ubuntu system that installs pieces of itself at run-time04:13
Kamionan automatic rescue target is, I think, possible, but will require some scripting04:15
jdub_anyone know of publically available info regarding the open secure digital card stuff?04:18
Kamiondamn, forgot to add acpi-modules to the d-i initrds04:18
thomelmo: can i close the ftbfs on glide? (ie, are you happy that it works right?)04:24
debianisti have problems with "Applications"->"Multimedia"->"CDPlayer". just won't work OOTB, has problems with /dev/cdrom. totem works np though.04:24
elmothom: yeah04:25
thomcool, gone04:25
rburtonthom: http://www.advogato.org/person/alex/diary.html?start=10. per-user apache daemons... 04:29
fabbioneok this should be it.. Kamion: base-config should be done now04:30
thomrburton: heh, nice04:33
thomnot sure i'd want to run apache in the session, (seems uneccesary, too)04:33
rburtonthere are claims apache only takes 2m with their configuration. i hope so, as our apache2 is taking ~60M04:34
jameshthom: I think the idea is to not require any root privileges.04:34
thomrburton: preforking with no modules loaded, 2M is about right04:34
jameshwould you need anything other than the webdav module?04:35
thommod_zeroconf or similar, presumably04:35
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
=== pitti does not like lengthy bureaucracy
jameshthom: he might be doing the mDNS advertisements in gnome-vfs04:36
thomyou would definitely need dav/davfs and userdir04:36
pittithom: Hi, I'm back. Any news?04:36
jameshwhy userdir?04:36
jameshsounds like he is just making ~/Public the docroot04:36
thomoh, although i guess with a per user daemon you'd just have the docroot as ~/Public or whatever04:36
thompitti: hal sucks. still looking04:37
=== jame1 [~james@c211-30-13-146.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
pittithom: agreeing to the hal statement.04:38
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jame1I've got an error (on a red background, no less) proclaiming "Executing 'grub-install /dev/hdg1' failed. This is a fatal error."04:55
jame1any way I can find out what happened?04:55
thomvt3 or 4 should have the full output04:56
jame1thom: it's saying "Error 6: Mismatched or corrupt version of stage1/stage2"04:57
jame1thom: is this a recoverable error or do I get to do another install?04:57
thomjame1: never seen that one before, but Kamion'd be the one to ask05:01
jame1Kamion: you around? any ideas?05:02
jame1Is there any way I can get it to skip the verification of my swap partitions? After the 5th or 6th time through this, I'm pretty sure that they're ok.05:06
Kamionjame1: um, sounds like the grub installation's broken, but if you're at that point it should be a fresh install, so I have no idea05:22
jame1Kamion: ok. I'm currently most of the way through the next install.05:23
Kamionlooking at the source I don't see any way to skip the swap check, sorry05:23
hypatiagiven a default install, are there any "easy dialup" tools installed?05:24
jame1Kamion: ok. I kinda figured that'd be it.05:24
Kamionhypatia: pppconfig? dunno about others ...05:24
Kamionhypatia: Computer -> System Configuration -> Networking seems to have a wizard-type thing for PPP05:25
hypatiaKamion: Unfortunately, pppconfig isn't easy enough for me, I have no way to work out which /dev device is my modem, or even if there is a driver for it loading correctly :(05:25
hypatiaKamion: It requires wvdial, which did not get installed :(05:25
Kamionyes, I just noticed that myself05:25
Kamionjdub_: bug?05:25
hypatiaunfortunately that is a pain to remedy when I only find it out somewhere with no other way to access the net :)05:26
=== hypatia is currently stealing time on someone else's laptop
jame1Kamion: another data point for you: the red error screen did not appear when I told it to use EXT3. All other settings were the same.05:27
hypatiapeople in Marseille don't seem as wireless-crazy as they were in London :)05:27
Kamionjame1: oh, XFS05:28
Kamionjame1: that warning is there for a reason :P05:28
jame1Kamion: no. reiser.05:28
jame1no warnings.05:28
Kamionah, dunno then05:28
Kamionwvdial isn't even in Supported it seems05:28
hypatiaI sort of just expected some "point and click" dialup love, alas05:29
=== Kamion tries installing it from universe to see what happens
MithrandirI hate printers05:31
Kamionwow, wvdial depends on libdb205:31
cefdidn't even miss the dialup setup stuff05:31
cefbut yeah, that's missing05:31
cefanyway, off to bed.. it's 1:30am here.. nite ppl05:31
Kamionand it requires interaction to install ...05:32
Kamionunless synaptic doesn't set DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive, which is always possible05:32
Mithrandir*sigh*, is gnome-cups-manager supposed to be the way to handle printers?05:36
thomMithrandir: yes, believe so05:36
Mithrandiris it only for me it locks up all the time?05:36
Mithrandirand doesn't know that I have installed some new ppds, which it may use?05:37
fabbionethis is something interesting to implement05:42
fabbionethe samba "trash"05:42
jame1'night all.05:45
=== jame1 [~james@c211-30-13-146.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu []
elmoKamion: huh, found an interesting germinate gotcha - if you run it separately for all arches, g++-3.4 is pulled in as a b-d mozilla only on amd64.. which is fine, it pulls in amd64's Depends for g++-3.4.. unfortunately it doesn't pull in i386/powerpc's which are diffrerent...05:47
Kamionhm, isn't that correct?05:48
Kamionif/when g++-3.4 is seeded on i386/powerpc, then their dependencies will be pulled in05:48
elmoa package is either in a component or it's not - you can't have per-architecture component-ness I don't think05:49
Kamionuh, you could perhaps stick g++-3.4 in germinate workarounds in Supported for now, not sure what the right fix to that is05:50
elmoyeah, don't worry, it's a fairly rare case and britney catches it, so it's not a big deal..05:51
elmowho knows maybe, per-architecture componentness is the right answer.. that would seem surprising to me as a user though if g++-3.4 was available on box but not the other05:52
=== fabbione would like to socialize with elmo's girls ;)
Kamionthat's already the case when things don't build, of course05:52
Kamionfabbione: tart :P05:53
fabbioneelmo: did i tell you that security dns was updated?05:53
elmofabbione: yeah, I saw you say so05:54
fabbionei start to melt down after 12 hours almost non-stop05:54
=== fabbione should so something for his insomnia
=== thom -> TMBG gig
thomhal has made my brain explode05:55
fabbione<point of order> i am imploding </point of order>05:56
thomand it's always a bad sign when you get to the point of using FASCISTS! as a debugging string05:56
=== fabbione fires up AC/DC
mdzthom: what did I miss with glide?06:01
mdzI test-built it on amd64 and it did the right thing06:01
fabbionehey mdz06:01
thommdz: control had just i386 in architectures for libglide2-dev, but you'd enabled the build of that package on any arch06:01
pittimdz: Good morning!06:01
mdzthom: ah06:01
pittimdz: ahm - do you have some time for another pmount discussion?06:02
mdzpitti: yes06:03
thomanyhow, hopefully my brain'll hurt less after They Might be Giants, so i'll hopefully fixup hal then06:03
pittimdz: I tried to add the -l option for lazy unmounting, but there's a problem:06:03
pittimdz: if the device node is not present any more, I cannot really check directly whether the device node belongs to an USB/FireWire device06:04
pittimdz: so currently I dropped the device_removable() check from pumount and replaced it by a check if the mounted uid == getuid()06:04
mdzpitti: you could check that the device is mounted under /media06:05
pittimdz: this adds the constraint that only the user who mounted a device can unmount it (this should be actually a good thing)06:05
pittimdz: this is already done06:05
mdzpitti: or worse, create a pmtab so you know what was mounted by pmount and what wasn't06:05
pittimdz: we already discussed the pmtab thingy, but it has its flaws, too06:05
pittimdz: the current solution should not be worse because:06:05
pittimdz: pmount only mounts removable devices (USB/FireWire), and the devices have uid=getuid()06:06
pittimdz: pumount only umounts uid=getuid() devices, so transitively it only unmounts removable devices, too06:06
pittimdz: this is not perfect, but from my POV its almost equivalent06:06
pittimdz: and we have to check for uid==getuid() anyway (at least we should)06:07
mdzpitti: it sounds like it is probably close enough06:07
pittimdz: the pmtab has an exploit:06:07
mdzpitti: you could add a dummy flag to the mount06:07
mdzto mark it as being mounted by pmount06:07
pittimdz: if that's possible...06:07
mdzit might produce warnings06:07
pittimdz: having an extra table is not a good solution, an user might pmount /dev/sda, rip it off, then the admin comes and hotplugs an /dev/sda SCSI device (fixed) to /usr06:08
pittimdz: the user should not be able to umount /dev/sda then06:08
pittimdz: I did not upload the current version yet, its on https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~pitti/pmount/06:08
pittimdz: I wanted to discuss it first06:08
pittimdz: if the pmount mount flag does not hurt, I can add this, too06:09
pittimdz: but writing an extra pmtab has too many risks of doing sth wrong, I think06:09
pittilamont: hi!06:10
mdzpitti: I agree; I don't recommend a pmtab06:10
pittilamont: may I bother you with a Debian buildd issue?06:10
mdzpitti: if you want to mail me the diff from the previous version, I'll look over it06:10
lamontsure, why not.  Everyone else does... :-)06:10
pittimdz: I'll do06:10
pittilamont: postgresql 7.4.5-3 was built on m68k some days ago, according to the build logs. but the PTS still says its out of date on m68k and it isn't in the archive06:11
pittilamont: 7.4.5-3 has critical bugfixes that need to go into sarge ASAP06:11
lamontm68k@buildd.debian.org - ask them to please upload06:11
pittilamont: thanks, will do06:11
lamontor, ask elmo to remove it from the archive for m68k... :-)06:11
=== lamont ducks
pittilamont: ahem - 06:11
pittinever mind06:11
Kamionelmo: are we going to be changing the archive to /ubuntu/ rather than /no-name-yet/ before release? just wondering if I should be keeping a more organized list of things to change when that happens06:11
lamontif it got removed (for m68k), then as soon as they uploaded, it would snap into testing, unless another upload had superseded it in sid.06:12
pittilamont: no, sid also has 7.4.5-306:12
pittimdz: http://www.piware.de/pmount-0.0.9.diff06:13
pittimdz: it's quite large, but more than 50% is documentation change06:14
=== lamont has a differen debian issue... postfix-tls Depends: postfix, which Conflicts: mail-transport-agent. exim is installed by default (debian, remember). apt-get install postfix-tls fails, because postfix will not be installed... What's the best way to make postfix-tls cause exim to go away, but still allow postfix to install...
elmokamion: not sure, I think sabdfl's happy to do that, but I need to double check06:15
lamontaka #27065306:15
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danielsfabbione: heh! ati driver considered harmful, on debian-x06:17
danielsfabbione: should we start moving to using r128/radeon? i'm happy to make the discover1-data change06:17
lamonttoday I will go to town and fetch sounder 8 so that bonnie can install it tonight06:17
fabbionedaniels: easy... what/where?06:19
fabbionedaniels: changes in discover1 will be useless06:19
danielsfabbione: ... why?06:19
danielsfabbione: we use discover1-data for all our installs06:19
fabbionedaniels: X will need to be changed too06:19
danielsah, you have a map?06:20
fabbionedaniels: because before there was the difference between r128 and ati.. 06:20
fabbionethan it went away06:20
danielsi'd like to do it, but the nv/ati/wacom changes take precedence06:20
fabbionenow you want to split it again06:20
fabbionethere is code in config that handles that situation06:20
danielsi would like to split r128/radeon. i've always wanted to split r128/radeon.06:20
danielsi don't believe in the ati driver, except for the unknown card vendor-default case06:21
fabbioneand reimplementing the split is not easy if you were using the ati driver06:21
fabbioneso i rather prefer to keep it as it is for warty06:21
danielsin any case, it06:21
fabbioneand we will split it again in hoary06:21
daniels's 0220, and i was hoping to get an early night tonight. ha!06:21
fabbionesince we will restart from scratch we can do it06:21
fabbionenow.. i am off.. i need to do some stuff and i am freaking tired06:22
fabbionedaniels: let's just work on updating and testing the drivers06:22
fabbionewe will consider "better" features for hoary06:22
fabbionedaniels: also.. we need to talk with mdz and sabdfl to see if we can organize a X-men session06:23
fabbionebefore the next conference06:23
=== Kamion ponders branding the "First Stage GNU/Linux Bootstrap" string in yaboot
pittidoko,lamont,debianist: are you subscribed to the SecurityReview wiki page? Then I don't need so send extra email updates06:29
lamontpitti: will be shortly if I'm not already06:29
pittilamont: I just did an update and so far only mdz was CC'ed06:31
pittidoko, debianist: you are not yet subscribed, can you please do that?06:31
debianistpitti : aye aye sir06:33
pittidebianist: thanks06:34
Mithrandirgnome-cups-manager -> print test page gives a huge "XIMIAN(R) DESKTOP" with logo and stuff.06:37
glyphMithrandir: what's wrong with that?06:38
pittiglyph: it probably should print out a huge Ubuntu logo :-)06:38
Mithrandirglyph: it should say Ubuntu06:38
Mithrandirand an ubuntu logo06:38
pittiMithrandir: yes! we want to waste people's color ink06:38
pittiMithrandir: :-)06:38
lamontpitti: subscribed (to everything Warty :-)06:39
pittilamont: thanks! (I confined it to *security* BTW)06:40
lamontpitti: was a matter of triviality to make it all warty...   Used to be that before the wiki move. :-()06:46
=== lamont grumbles at doko
lamont_26_ flipping hours on hppa.06:47
lamontfabbione: you around?06:57
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pittikagou: hi07:00
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=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-228-55.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionelamont: i am busy on the phone...07:28
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kagouwho is the list moderator ??07:49
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Kamionkagou: Jeff Waugh, I believe07:52
=== fabbione takes off for dinner after 1 hour of talk with the electrician
kagouKamion, you speak about jdub_ ?07:56
mdzdaniels: ping?07:57
Kamionjdub_: so, where do we want to put the preview release ISOs, URL-wise?07:59
Kamionjdub_: something like http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/warty-preview/warty-i386-1.iso?07:59
Kamionjdub_: I was also thinking of dropping the -1, it's a legacy from Debian's CD sets07:59
Kamionjdub_: (and it confused one sounder who was thinking "are they only on Sounder CD 1?")08:00
mdzgrowisofs_mmc.cpp:static void         *ioctl_handle=(void *)-1;08:05
mdzgrowisofs_mmc.cpp:#define ioctl_fd ((long)ioctl_handle)08:05
=== mdz pummels whoever wrote this crap
mdz         * I leak some memory here, but I don't care...08:10
MithrandirKamion: should today's be ok, amd64-wise?08:31
lamontMithrandir: do you have the bandwidth to do amd64-libs easily?  Or should I just deal with it?08:39
MithrandirI'm on a 2Mbit now, so I can do it without any big problems.08:39
Mithrandirthe problem was removal, right?08:40
lamontMithrandir: thanks.  just need a || true on each of the grep -v's in postrm, iirc.08:40
lamontpb is that when you remove the last line from ld.so.conf, grep exit(1)'s.08:41
pittimdz: can you please mail me if you took a look at the pmount changes? I would sort this out tomorrow, I still have an hour of RL things to do before I go to sleep08:49
=== tvon [~tvon@h-66-167-234-52.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu
pittitvon: hi! I uploaded a new pcmcia-cs package which should sort out this insane device creation - removal - creation - ...08:52
pittitvon: can you please test them with your pcmcia device?08:53
tvonpitti: cool08:53
tvonpitti: sure08:53
pittitvon: thx!08:53
tvonI'm at a coffee shop at th emoment08:53
tvonoh, but I have my camera08:53
mdzpitti: I'll take a look; next time, please email the diff, that way it automatically goes on my todo list08:53
=== tvon snags the CF card
pittimdz: I can still mail it if you want08:53
mdzpitti: hmm08:54
mdzpitti: which uid does it use when doing the uid check for unmount?08:54
mdzif it is the invoking user, won't that break for hal lazy unmounts?08:54
tvonpitti: seems good in the logs08:55
pittimdz: that's why we don't allow hal to pumount08:55
pittimdz: first, because of the user, second because hal should stay policy free08:55
tvonhald keeps crapping out dammit08:55
mdzpitti: but hal already does this, with umount rather than pumount08:55
mdzpitti: how do we do lazy unmounts if not with hal?08:55
pittimdz: thom and I decided that it would be the best if hald just send a message to gnome-vfs2 (gvm) and gvm does it08:56
mdzpitti: what happens if the user logs out of GNOME?08:56
pittimdz: then it is not umounted, I guess08:56
tvonhrm, mayhaps I need a reboot after some updates08:56
pittimdz: this is the same: a device is not mounted if the user is not logged in08:56
tvonvolume-manager is set to browse the new stuffs, but it's not happening08:57
pittimdz: after all, it's just a helper, not a final solution08:57
tvoncan udev be restarted without things exploding?08:57
pittitvon: no, the device won't be mounted automatically08:57
mdztvon: yes, should be08:57
tvonpitti: ah08:57
pittitvon: pcmcia-cs should just behave sanely now, without creating device nodes on its own08:57
tvonpitti: gotcha08:58
pittitvon: why? does it still behave bad?08:58
pittimdz: maybe gvm should unmount all pmounted devices on logout08:58
tvonpitti: nah, the logs look fine but I was hoping for some auto-browse magic on the CF08:59
mdzpitti: maybe08:59
mdzthis gets tricky08:59
pittitvon: I'm still negotiating this with mdz08:59
kagoupitti, what do you want to test with the last pcmcia-cs ? Because i'v an external DD SATA on pcmcia08:59
pittikagou: the previous version created device nodes on its own, which badly interfered with udev. Nodes were created, removed, and created again, removed again, and so on09:00
pittikagou: thus the device appeared as steadily unplugged and replugged09:00
mdzpitti: I don't see any problems with the patch09:00
pittikagou: essentially the pcmcia packages should just behave as before, without stopping to work in general09:01
mdzpitti: did you see the sounder report where pmounting ext3 doesn't work? (due to uid= option)09:01
kagounice pitti09:01
pittikagou: so if you don't notice any difference, it's fine :-)09:01
mdzpitti: fixing that will probably require some adjustments to this  new policy as well09:01
pittimdz: no, I still have to catch up my mail09:01
kagoui test09:01
sabdflmdz: if we are using grub only, should we turn off do_symlinks in /etc/kernel-img.conf?09:01
pittimdz: I was busy with the security review until now09:01
mdzsabdfl: update-grub still uses the symlinks to provide the default and "(old)" options09:02
kagouno problems with my pcmcia :)09:02
mdzsabdfl: I use link_in_boot myself09:02
=== tvon is now known as tvon-brb
pittikagou: fine, thanks!09:02
kagouyour welcome09:02
mdzpitti: so that bug can be closed now, yes?09:02
pittimdz: I think so09:02
sabdflwhere's the doc on those?09:02
pittimdz: I will close it now09:02
mdzsabdfl: kernel-img.conf(5)09:02
sabdflah, ok09:03
sabdflno manual entry for that09:03
kagoudamn i made a big report installation and i'm waiting for opprobation from jdub_ :)09:03
kagoumail is too big :p09:03
mdzsabdfl: apt-get install kernel-package09:03
pittimdz: I think we should attempt the mount with option -s to fix that ext3 problem09:06
pittimdz: I will reformat my USB stick and try that09:06
mdzpitti: oh, I did not know about that option. that sounds good09:06
pittimdz: Will try that and put that into the 0.0.9 package before upload09:07
pittimdz: so the mods are fine with you?09:07
pittimdz: s/with/for/09:07
mdzpitti: from what I saw, yes. I do not have time for a line-by-line audit09:07
mdzbut I looked over them09:07
pittimdz: of course not, I just want the new policy to be blessed by you :-)09:08
pittimdz: the general idea of umounting with checking the uid=09:08
mdzno problem with the policy09:08
pittimdz: I discussed that with Mithrandir, fabbione, andthom, they agreed as well09:08
pittimdz: okay, then I'll upload this09:08
pittimdz: thanks for reviewing09:09
=== pitti severily needs something to eat now. CU later
=== tvon [~tvon@h-66-167-234-52.mclnva23.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== Mithrandir grumbles, geda in universe is broken.
sabdflwhat do you guys think of the latest panel menus? think we should move "Help" and "About Ubuntu" to the Applications menu?09:20
sabdflthat would make the menus about even in size09:20
mdzlamont: what's the status of buildd support for warty-security?09:20
lamontmdz: that's such a 2-days-ago question.. :-)09:21
sabdflmdz: warty-security only kicks in after gold release, right?09:21
lamontmdz: you upload it, it'll build09:21
mdzlamont: ok, great09:21
lamontditto for warty-updates09:21
mdzsabdfl: either gold release or FinalFreeze09:21
mdzbut we'll want to test it before then09:21
sabdflyes ok09:21
elmotesting is for losers09:21
elmoreal men just Wing It(tm)09:21
sabdflelmo: i will never forget your face when you Winged It (TM) with my mail...09:22
mdzsabdfl: pitti is beginning the Warty security review, and I think it makes sense to push at least some of those updates through warty-security to make sure it works09:22
mdzelmo: do we have a warty-amber or something?09:22
elmomdz: err, nope09:22
mdzelmo: how should that part work?09:22
sabdfli thought we'd want "warty" to be the same as the CD09:23
elmomdz: well atm, it works more like p-u in Debian.. I didn't realise you'd want to do it amber-style09:23
mdzelmo: good point09:23
sabdflamber? p-u?09:23
mdzelmo: how does stuff get from p-u to stable in debian?09:23
mdzsabdfl: p-u = proposed-updates, where things live before they go into a point release09:23
elmosabdfl: I'm never going to be allowed to forget that, am I? :-)09:23
sabdflnope :-)09:23
mdzsabdfl: amber = tool used to install packages into the security.debian.org archive for an advisory09:24
mdzelmo: I suppose soyuz should obsolete amber09:24
sabdflso back to the panel menus. about ubuntu -> back to applications?09:24
elmomdz: yeah, you'd have a web/mail interface as a replacement I guess09:24
mdzhopefully by the time we need a place to stage updates from random people before letting them into the security archive, we'll have enough of soyuz to oprovide that09:24
mdzsabdfl: I'd suggest that we have a Help menu, but I think jeff would set my house afire09:25
elmooh, are we still going to do that opening a browser by default - I think that'd be cool for new users09:25
elmo(with a page pointing to docs, I mean)09:25
sabdflit's looking pretty good at the mo09:25
sabdflin fact, if we moved both help and about ubuntu over, then the menu's are dead even09:26
mdzelmo: local docs, or network docs?09:26
mdzHelp is an application09:27
mdzbut About ubuntu isn't09:27
=== sabdfl waves hands, hoping jdub doesn't notice
mdzthis application/computer distinction is so artificial anyway; lots of things don't fit.  we should just put it all in one menu. yeah!  we'll call it "start"!09:27
=== mdz runs away
Mithrandirmdz: we could call it "Ubuntu", rather?09:28
elmomdz: either/both.. just a general, welcome to ubuntu page with pointers to getting started docs, rather than being dumped into the plain desktop09:28
elmoat least, that's what I understood some people were suggesting09:28
mdzit'd be nice to be able to send them right to the website docs, if we can reliably guess that they can actually get there09:28
mdzelmo: there used to be a "Start here" icon on the desktop...:-)09:29
sabdflwhat's our firefox default home page going to be?09:29
lamontmdz: note that when you test warty-security/warty-updates, uploads _will_ happen for them...09:29
sabdflI think it should be something like search.ubuntulinux.org09:29
mdzsabdfl: to-be-determined.com is available09:29
Mithrandirmdz: ping -c www.n-n-y.c && sensible-browser http://www.n-n-y.c/Warty/Start ?09:29
mdzwould be a nice companion to no-name-yet09:29
sabdflwhat about boss-never-decides-till-the-last-minute-then-changes-his-mind-again.com?09:29
mdzMithrandir: do I even need to point out the failure conditions? :-)09:29
Mithrandirsabdfl: a bit too long, I think.  63 chars max.09:30
elmosabdfl: how about s/sabdfl/sbdfl/ where the s stands for 'schizo'? ;)09:30
mdzmizar:[~]  echo -n boss-never-decides-till-the-last-minute-then-changes-his-mind-again |wc -c09:30
elmodude, you should register sabdfl.org :)09:30
sabdfljust keep the b, just keep the b...09:30
elmobefore our first ex-employee does ;-)09:31
mdzwe have ubuntu-customized versions of 394 of the 923 binary packages in desktop09:32
mdzminus one false positive for ubuntu-artwork due to my laziness09:32
lamontmdz: just need to drop the '-again' then... :-)09:32
lamontelmo: thoughts on that ugly binNMU/powerpc thing?09:33
mdzBINNMU BAD09:33
lamontmdz: worse than that.09:33
lamont-6.0.1 > -6ubuntu109:34
mdzlamont: BINNMU BAD09:34
elmolamont: i replied?09:34
lamontso we need to upload -6.1ubuntu109:34
=== lamont checks his emails
elmoI think we should just bite the bullet and upload 6.0.1ubuntu109:34
elmoit's hideous, but what choice do we have.. 6.1ubuntu1 is kind of worse, since debian's still at -6.. maybe09:34
mdzhow about -6ubuntu2?09:34
lamontelmo: 6.0.1ubuntu1 sourceful?09:35
lamontmdz: gotta have a .09:35
Mithrandirthat looks crackful09:35
mdzlamont: why?09:35
mdzit's not a bin-nmu09:35
lamontbecause -6.0.1 > -6ubuntu*09:35
mdzbin-nmus are BAD09:35
lamontyeah, well done is done.09:35
lamontwas a rebuild to get correct deps09:35
elmomdz: dude, it's there, we can't ...09:35
mdzoh, we have a 6.0.1 in warty you mean?09:35
elmooh, well, that's another option of course, we haven't released yet09:35
Mithrandirhow about 6.ubuntu1 ?09:35
elmowe could kill the 6.0.1 out of warty :)09:35
mdzI wasn't in on the email conspiracy09:36
lamontand it's preventing 6ubuntu1 from getting there for ppc09:36
lamontelmo: it only breaks our ppc sounders upgrading to the preview instead of cold-installing... :=(09:36
elmolamont: so did, e.g. the flush/rebuilds :P09:36
=== lamont favors -6.1ubuntu1
lamontvery true..09:36
lamontand nuking -6.0.1 could be a purely elmo-activity. :-)09:37
Mithrandirblaming elmo always works. ;P09:37
lamontMithrandir: no.  blaming elmo doesn't always work.09:39
lamontBut it _is_ always fun.09:39
Mithrandirwell, true.09:40
sabdflelmo: done09:40
lamontelmo: so you wanna just make it go away?09:41
lamontno-source-change upload is also no big deal...09:41
=== lamont lets mdz/elmo decide. :-)
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lamontof course, if we uploaded -6.1ubuntu1, we should do a no-source-change NMU to debian, since -6 is the latest in debian..09:42
lamontmaybe that's a vote for 'nuke', eh?09:42
=== lamont hugs ccache
Mithrandirlamont: can you check why geda-gschem failed to build on amd64?09:48
lamontMithrandir: why, for the same reason it failed on i386, of course..09:49
Mithrandirwhich is?09:49
lamont+-lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -ldl -lglib-2.0       -lX11 -lm  09:49
lamont/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lX1109:49
lamontcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status09:49
Mithrandirmissing xlibs build-dep?09:49
lamontlooks like maybe a missing build-dep to me09:49
lamont  whiptail x-dev xfree86-common xlibs-data xlibs-static-dev zlib1g-dev09:50
lamont0 upgraded, 85 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.09:50
lamontthat's the tail end of apt-get install output09:50
Mithrandiryup, since it built fine on my system here.09:50
lamontthe real question is what happened on ppc...09:50
Mithrandirit build-deps on libgtk2.0-dev, though..09:50
lamontd-w libgeda-dev09:51
lamont../../rpmdb/dbconfig.c:11:19: debug.h: No such file or directory09:54
lamonthrm.. wonder where that's supposed to come from...09:54
=== fabbione yawns
mdzelmo,lamont: whatever you guys think is best for the version numbering, as long as it gets resolved10:02
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
elmoI've nuked 6.0.110:02
mdzwhat package is this anyway?10:02
elmoit's one of the two last remaining blemishes in the archive (out-of-date or broken deps)10:03
mdzsomething people actually have installed10:03
elmooh.. well.. we can still do a source upload if you want10:03
mdzit's fine with me if we're newer than a hypothetical Debian NMU10:04
lamontmdz: yeah, but they also have i386 and/or amd64 binaries from before the great flushing..10:04
lamontmdz: so you want a source upload?  will do10:04
mdzlamont: yeah, but then when we go to do a security update for it, they wouldn't get it10:04
mdzwhereas that isn't a problem for the flushed binaries10:04
mdzyes, please do10:05
lamontsabdfl: rpm has issues...10:05
lamontmdz: momentarily10:05
lamontlibelf is GPL'ed, but we also need libdw (dwarf), which isn't...10:05
lamontI like the sound of that version number...10:06
Mithrandirblah, pbuilder doesn't have a warty.buildd10:08
lamontI have one for sbuild10:08
Mithrandircould you send it to me?10:08
Mithrandiror put it online?10:08
fabbioneKamion: are you still around?10:09
fabbionesabdfl: if you declared renaming time 2 days ago i would have love you more :)10:10
Mithrandirlamont: thanks10:11
lamontmdz: do apt-preferences apply to deb-src lines, or how do I do that?10:11
fabbionelamont: no it doesn't10:11
fabbioneyou have to do it manually iirc10:12
=== lamont just removes the deb-src lines for sid.
lamontlibgphoto2 uploaded10:15
fabbionemdz: should we recompile all the packages for v10 or go for v12?10:19
=== SleepBoB [hrdwrbob@220-253-59-197.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
mdzlamont: apt-get source <package>=<version>10:21
mdzfabbione: as I said in the bug, I think many packages can't use v12 because of the licensing10:21
fabbioneso we need to roll back to v10...10:22
lamontmdz: yeah, but I want to say apt-get source=warty10:22
lamontmdz: err, apt-get source <pkg>=warty10:22
mdzlamont: you want apt-get source <pkg>/warty :-)10:22
lamontdoes that work?10:23
mdzfabbione: that is what sarge is doing10:23
mdzlamont: no10:23
=== lamont whaps mdz. :-)
fabbionemdz: yeah i read that...10:23
mdzthere's a wishlist bug, and a possible patch, in Debian10:23
mdzABI changes, etc. not going to happen for a while10:23
lamontmdz: looking at main, I'm not sure we care that much about v10 vs v12.  Universe is much more populated10:23
mdzfabbione: so if we go for v10 we can perhaps sync packages from Debian10:23
fabbionemdz: if the list of packages is that one in the bug i will take care of them tomorrow10:23
mdzfabbione: great10:24
fabbionemdz: hmmmm i am not sure that's a good idea...10:24
mdzhopefully they all build and work with v1010:24
lamontfabbione: you mean my list?10:24
=== lamont can do the conversions today
fabbionemdz: i think it's easier to just change dependency and rebuild10:24
fabbionelamont: yes sorry....10:24
lamontfabbione: np.10:24
lamontmdz: you want them rebuilt with the v10 depends?10:25
lamontor do you want to rebuild the others with v12?10:25
mdzlamont: universe? no, not universe10:25
fabbionelamont: with v1010:25
lamontmdz: not universe.10:25
mdzlamont: see #111510:25
=== lamont will rebuild his package list from #1115 to all b-d libmysqlclient10-dev
fabbionelamont: ok...10:27
fabbioneso i won't care about it tomorrow10:27
fabbionehopefully i will get Xu packages10:27
lamontredland, mysql-dfsg,libdbd-mysql-perl10:27
mdzanyone know which end of australia Xu is on?10:28
lamontumm... mysql-dfsg...  I think I'm not gonna do that one, since it delivers libmysqlclient12-dev..:-)10:28
fabbionewhy my gf has to be late EVERY time10:29
fabbione"i will be back at home max at 10pm"...10:30
fabbione"wait for me..."10:30
fabbioneand it's 10:30 already10:30
=== fabbione sighs
mdzI asked her to be late so that you would come on IRC and talk to us instead :-)10:31
fabbionemdz: i hate you :P10:31
tvonI like how volume control has 4 tabs on it, one of which is my modem10:31
fabbionei am gonna crash in front of the TV10:32
=== Mithrandir whacks geda
fabbionei start dreaming about our release plan... that's not a good symptom10:32
fabbionegood night guys10:33
lamontnight fabbione10:33
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mdzelmo: what was that magic tool you mentioned which would try harder to apply patches?10:35
lamontmdz: iirc, he was really bitching about that tool later, since it horribly misapplied a fewl..10:36
mdzwell, never mind then :-)10:36
lamontit was late, but we feared elmo would get violent...:-)10:36
elmomdz: wiggle10:38
elmolamont: that was the gcc patch of doom - even patch fucked that one up10:38
elmoI could write a fricking thesis on how evil that patch was10:39
lamonts/patch/debian/ :-)10:39
Mithrandirlamont: I don't get build failures automatically, can you investigate?10:39
lamontMithrandir: oh.  let me go check10:39
elmolamont: no, as in patch(1)10:39
Mithrandirlamont: else, I'll continue to prod you about random packages. ;)10:39
lamontMithrandir: sigh.. What email?10:40
lamontaddress, that is10:40
lamontMithrandir: fixed10:41
=== Mithrandir crosses fingers for gEDA
lamontMithrandir: did you ever get automated errors?10:43
lamonthrm...  you want everything, or do you not want to see depwaits?10:43
MithrandirI'd prefer not to see depwaits.10:44
MithrandirI didn't get any no, just the ones you bounced to me10:44
lamontok.  You'll get failures that are beyond the automated handling, as well as successes, iirc.10:44
=== lamont is not sure about successes.. :-0
MithrandirI don't really want successes, but if I get them, I get them. :P10:45
lamontthey're, um, short.10:45
lamontMithrandir: you get them.10:49
Mithrandiryup, I see that10:49
Mithrandirjust got the libgphoto2 one10:49
lamontlike I said, short... :-)10:49
Mithrandir25 lines10:49
Mithrandirthat's nice10:49
=== lamont thinks that was what elmo's "meh" was about..
elmono, the meh-ing is about random buildd log pimpage.. but I can't complain since it's my fault it's not fixed yet properly10:51
elmo(well and thom's.. can't forget to blame thom)10:51
pittigood night guys! I'll try a sounder 8 installation and go to sleep then.10:51
lamontelmo: specific packages are actually my .procmailrc here.  Mithrandir got added to the output side of the automated handler on all the amd64 boxes.10:51
lamontbut it would be nice to get away from that...10:52
mdzKamion: around?11:07
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alextrememdz: just checking, is the default background now the one stating 'ubuntu debugging artwork'?11:34
alextremekay, thanks11:35
alextremehmm, should it be used during bootsplash-phase too?11:40
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mdzalextreme: there is no longer a bootsplash11:56
mdzfor warty11:56
alextremewhat is being used then?11:56
mdzand pretty init scripts11:58
alextremehmm, i'll probably stick with the old one for now, would like to get this done and get back to work on the autobuilding :)11:58
mdzlook in the ubuntu-artwork package and see if there is something in there that is intended for use as a boot splash11:59
mdzif there isn't now, there will be11:59

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