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=== debonzi Goes to dinner and studies
=== debonzi [~debonzi@] has left #launchpad ["Leaving"]
laloBritney Spears died to save us!12:43
kiko-afkshe died?12:43
lalokiko-afk: not really :-P I'm just a bit more excited than would be healthy about a musical I've seen in London12:53
laloit's set in the future, and there's a character (male) named Britney Spears, and one of the main characters extracts a very good laugh from the audience when she says the sentence I just typed here12:54
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daflalo: any idea how I log into Launchpad?04:16
dafI mean, what username/password I use04:16
laloI didn't even know you needed to :-P04:59
dafI didn't, until I wanted to look at the API docs05:00
dafgetting some strange errors now05:00
dafI think I'll go to bed and ask Steve when I get up05:00
lalome too05:00
laloreally should try to be here some part of the morning tomorrow :-)05:00
spivdaf: What are you doing still up? ;)05:06
dafspiv: working on template upload05:06
dafspiv: you? :)05:06
spivWorking on an xml-rpc auth server for plone to talk to.05:08
daflet me see... it's 23:00 for you?05:09
spivI just hit a minor snag that will require confirmation from Steve to continue, though, so now is a good time to go to bed.05:09
spivI was on a reasonable approximation of US time while I was there.05:09
dafoh, you're in London05:09
dafof course05:10
spivThen the silly trip to London kinda threw me, as I didn't really sleep on that plane.05:10
spiv(Not to mention the fun and games surrounding that particular flight...)05:10
spivAnd then things like TMBG concerts conspire to prevent me having early nights ;)05:11
spivYeah, in London for a few more hours... :)05:11
dafhow was the concert?05:11
spivPretty good, the Astoria is a nice small venue.05:12
dafI last saw them at the Astoria in London, which is a bit big but pretty good05:12
spivThey played a good spectrum of material.05:13
spivWell, the most recent concert I'd seen prior to this was Radiohead at the Sydney Entertainment Centre.  They did a good show, but it's hard to feel involved when you're in the back seats of such a huge venue.05:13
=== daf nods
spiv(It holds about 10000 people, iirc)05:14
spivThe support act was some wierd long-haired Texan that played the accordion.  They brought him on to play Particle Man with Linnel.05:16
spivLinnell, rather.05:16
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dafdid the Johns have the Dans with them?05:16
spivThey segued into a sort of duelling-accordions thing in the middle :)05:16
spivMiller and Weinkauf, but the drummer is Marty someone.05:17
dafoh, interesting05:17
spiv(The same drummer as for most of the new album)05:17
dafdid he play the glockenspiel?05:17
spivThere was no glockenspiel, or shoehorn with teeth!05:18
dafah, I guess it was getting a bit routine :)05:18
spivI recall hearing they actually gave away the glockspiel at a gig a few months ago.05:18
spivIt's not like the synth couldn't be used for it if they really wanted, though...05:19
spivBut I don't feel let down by the set list -- there was plenty of stuff I'd never heard live before.05:20
spiv(Actually, I did a quick mental tally and I think they managed to play something from every album)05:21
spivThey did Violin :)05:21
spivAnd got us to mexican wave during the middle of it.05:22
dafoh, cool :)05:22
spivSo... what's *your* excuse for being up this late? :)05:26
=== spiv figures out the answer to the question he was going to ask Steve
dafmy excuse?05:28
dafthis is just what my sleep patterns are like at the moment05:28
dafI went to bed at 7am yesterday05:28
dafI don't think I can do without Steve05:29
dafand I need to be awake when you turn up tomorrow05:29
dafso I think I will go to bed05:29
spivSee you then :)05:29
dafnight :)05:29
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-lilo(levin@levin-pdpc.staff.freenode)- [Server Notice] Hi all. We'll be restarting your server momentarily. Just sit back and enjoy the ride---you should be back up pretty quickly. Feel free to reconnect manually if your client doen't retry at 5:00. Thank you for using freenode!06:58
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=== ..[topic/#launchpad:irc.freenode.net] : <kiko> how's england? <daf> wet <daf> but soon, I will go back to Wales <kiko> and how will wales be? <daf> probably wet, too
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SteveAdaf: ping12:34
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dafSteveA: pong01:05
SteveAjust chatting to scott01:06
SteveAbe with your shortly01:06
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dafSteveA: I'm planning to go into town this afternoon -- if you need something from me urgently, can you let me know soon?01:44
SteveAcan we chat in 5 mins?01:46
carlosdaf: I need to go to the university now, I will be back this afternoon01:46
carlossame question for you01:46
carlosdo you need anything from me?01:46
dafcarlos: no01:47
dafcarlos: do you need anything from me?01:47
carlossee you later01:47
carlosdaf: I don't think so01:47
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carlosSteveA: about the password, I will add a comment to the bug report, but I need to know the way we should store them (plain text, crypt, md5...)01:48
SteveAdaf: almost done...01:50
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=== lalo waves
laloI'll have to reboot and be offline for about 15m to do some electrical stuff, but otherwise I'm already up04:33
dafSteveA: hi05:50
=== spiv waves from daf's place
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SteveAhi daf, hi spiv06:31
SteveAhi daf06:45
SteveALet's check through the rosetta alpha wiki page06:45
SteveAfirst, I think we should modify the "Where"06:46
dafto http://rosetta.ubuntulinux.org?06:46
SteveAit will be running on the machine "rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com", but we want it to be accessible from the domain "rosetta.ubuntulinux.org"06:46
SteveAalso note that the development server should still be accessible as rosetta.warthogs06:47
SteveAthat is, we'll have two servers and two databases06:47
SteveAcarlos wrote a script to insert a user into the database06:48
SteveAit needs to be extended to prompt for the user's password06:48
SteveAthen to create a digest of it, and put that in the database06:49
dafis there a bug for that?06:49
SteveAthe library to create the digest is in lib/canonical/lp/placelessauth/encryption.py06:49
SteveAthere is a bug06:49
SteveAI think I re-opened it today06:50
SteveAwhen I noticed the lack of passwords06:50
dafwhy are we using a special digest method?06:50
SteveAwhat do you mean?06:50
dafi.e. why are not just using the standard SHA library or something similar?06:50
SteveAyou don't just SHA-1 a password and put that in the database06:50
dafyou don't?06:50
SteveAthat is vulnerable to a simple dictionary attack06:50
SteveAyou need to add some salt06:51
dafhow does that improve security?06:51
SteveAyou can't use a large set of precomputed digests06:52
SteveAand quickly check against a digested password06:52
dafaren't the passwords sent in plaintext anyhow?06:54
SteveAsent where?06:54
dafvia HTTP06:55
SteveAshouldn't we be discussing the alpha document?06:55
dafyes, we should06:55
SteveA" There will need to be some method arranged for dumping/loading user data."06:55
SteveAis a bug filed on that?06:55
dafno, I'll do that06:55
SteveAare the points under "user-accessible functionality" up to date?06:56
dafis logging in implemented?06:57
SteveAyes and no06:57
SteveAwe need to talk about permissions06:57
dafare there bugs filed for the parts that don't work?06:57
SteveAgood question06:57
dafI need to go plug myself in06:58
dafback in a minute06:58
dafok, done06:59
SteveAI just want to search mozilla for the bugs that are assigned to me06:59
dafsearch mozilla?06:59
SteveAI cannot find "assignee" anywhere in the advanced searhc form07:00
dafthat should do it07:01
dafI think it's using "owner" and "assignee" interchangably07:01
daffile a bug :)07:01
SteveA"bugzilla makes my head hurt"07:01
dafBugzilla URLs make my eyes hurt07:01
dafit could do a redirect which eliminates redundant query parameters07:02
dafyou could delete most of the parameters from the above URL and get the same result07:02
dafis this alpha-critical?07:05
SteveAthat depends07:05
SteveAwe need to talk about permissions to know that07:05
dafokay, let's talk about permissions07:06
dafby the way, did you get my email about the error I got when logging in?07:06
SteveAlet's finish going through the alpha doc07:06
SteveAsubmittingnew/updated translations?07:07
SteveAlooked like #1913 could possibly be closed07:07
SteveAwhat's implemented for "request a new project" ?07:08
SteveAneed a bug for it07:08
dafwe have one07:08
SteveAadd it to the alpha page on the wiki07:08
SteveAthe " Setting up devel.warthogs.hbd.com alias so that rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com can be used as the alpha." is no longer relevent07:13
SteveAwe'll still be using rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com for development07:14
dafso it's replaced by "Setting up rosetta.ubuntulinux.org alias"?07:14
SteveAwell, I'd put it as "making the alpha server on the 'rosetta' machine accessible from rosetta.ubuntulinux.org"07:15
dafokay, I've saved the changes I've made so far07:17
SteveAlooks good07:17
SteveAhow will the testers track bugs in rosetta?07:17
SteveAemail you with "issues" and then those are filed as bugs?07:18
dafcould do07:18
dafit might be nice to let them use Bugzilla directly07:18
dafis that feasible?07:19
SteveAprobably not07:19
SteveAas that bugzilla instance is for all our internal stuff07:19
SteveAso, let's do the "mail to the rosetta-sounders mailing list"07:19
SteveAand then one of the team will file bugs based on that07:20
SteveAsounds ok to you?07:20
dafhmm, I have misgivings about that way of doing things07:21
dafor rather, I think having bugs out in the open fosters participation and a sense of community07:22
SteveAdo you have concrete suggestion?07:24
dafno, I don't07:26
dafwell, we could run yet another Bugzilla for Launchpad testers07:26
SteveAthat doens't sound feasible in time for the alpha07:27
dafor perhaps we could reuse the ubuntu sounders bugzilla07:27
dafor perhaps we could make do with email until Malone is ready07:27
SteveAhow many rosetta testers do you have lined up?07:28
dafnot very many -- 5-10, I think07:28
SteveAlet's use the mailing list approach for now07:28
SteveAcan you write our intention on the wiki page?07:28
SteveAhas anyone contacted jdub about setting up a mailing list?07:30
dafno, I don't think so07:30
dafI'll do that now07:30
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #launchpad
SteveAhi carlos07:31
dafok, jdub mailed07:32
dafhi carlos 07:33
dafSteveA: is there anything else about the alpha we need to dictuss, do you think?07:37
SteveAdo you have rights to create an additional database on rosetta?07:39
dafI don't know07:40
dafI'll try07:40
SteveAand... ?07:45
dafhmm it's hanging07:45
SteveAwhat is?07:46
dafthe database creation process07:47
carlosdaf: do you have launchpad stopped?07:47
carlosif there is any process running the make launchpad_test command hangs07:48
carlosuntil all connection are closed07:48
daflaunchpad is running07:48
dafbut I was running "createdb foo"07:48
SteveAcan you kill it, and strace?07:49
dafoh, it's done now07:50
SteveAoh, ok07:50
SteveAI wonder why it took so long07:50
dafit only worked when I killed launchpad07:50
SteveAI just sent email to you, james, and lulu07:51
SteveAdo you have the proxypass directive that you're using now?07:51
SteveAelmo: mail loop!07:53
=== SteveA mails admins about apparent mail loop
daflet's hope that that mail doesn't get into the loop :)07:56
SteveAdoes rosetta need to send out mail to anywhere?07:56
dafwell, maybe07:57
dafpasswords need to be mailed to users07:57
carlosdaf: yes, the project request07:57
dafand they need to be mailed from somewhere07:57
dafcarlos: oh, of course07:57
dafyes, Rosetta needs to send mail to me07:57
SteveAcan you already send mail from the dev server?07:58
dafI'll try07:58
SteveAmaybe try 25 on localhost on rosetta07:58
=== ddaa [~david@nemesis.xlii.org] has joined #launchpad
SteveAthat's the most obvious way to do it from python / zope07:58
dafyes, it works07:59
SteveAalso, please note on the wiki page that this is how "add a new project" is to be implemented07:59
daf(the test was "date | mail -s test daf@canonical.com")07:59
SteveAbetter to try telnet to port 2507:59
SteveAthat's the way we'll be sending mail in general from zope08:00
SteveAwhen we need to do it transactionally08:00
SteveAfor the alpha, using mail will do08:00
carlosI will work this weekend, I was working under my normal hours this week08:00
SteveAbut I'd like to know what can work08:00
dafthe canonical way to do it on unix systems is to invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail -t, I think08:00
ddaaPeople, do you think the message on the launchpad mailing list was adequate, or should I have simply proposed a patch which remove the useless fields from the ChangesetFile table?08:00
SteveAddaa: I haven't read it yet08:01
dafI asked on #canonical yesterday and I was advised thusly by mdz08:02
ddaaBah. No hurry, my day is almost finished.08:02
SteveAdaf: can you just try ?08:02
SteveAthere is a tension between the canonical way to do it on a unix system and the canonical way to do it with zope08:03
SteveAwe'll have to work out which is the best Canonical way08:03
dafwell, either will probably work for the systems we'll be running Launchpad on08:04
dafyes, telnetting to port 35 works08:04
dafer, 2508:04
SteveAand sends you email?08:04
mdzdaf: hey, i first suggested you use SMTP and you said you wanted sendmail :-P08:05
dafmdz: sorry, you're right08:05
SteveAwe can use either, but I would prefer to use whatever the transactional email system uses by default08:05
dafI don't think it makes much difference08:06
dafif doing it by SMTP works, we can do that08:07
SteveAso long as both work, I don't need to ask james to make one of them work ;)08:07
dafok, any other alpha-related business?08:08
SteveAwe can remove the "?" from after "Bugzilla"08:08
SteveAand write the URL to the launchpad bugzilla08:08
SteveAand mention that jdub has been asked to set up a list08:08
SteveAand " Setting up devel.warthogs.hbd.com alias so that rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com can be used as the alpha." is wrong08:09
SteveAhttps://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1947 can be a link for "logging in"08:10
SteveAthen, I think that's it08:10
=== lalo [~lalo@] has joined #launchpad
SteveAok, great.  thanks.08:12
SteveAI'll be working on my bugs over the weekend.08:13
=== SteveA goes to get food
laloour list of bugs is shrinking :-D08:14
dafhttps://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1915 is looking greyer and greyer08:15
dafcarlos: can #1913 be closed now?08:15
carlosdaf: yes08:16
lalowell, my ritual daily question - before I pick some bugs for myself, is there any bug(s) in particular you'd like me to take a look at?08:17
lalooh, and I promised you I'd try to write a document. I suppose I'll do that in the next few hours.08:17
dafyeah, what I'm looking for is the different states that message sets and sightings have, and the transitions between them08:19
dafand what things cause those transitions08:19
laloI'll try to include a state diagram in the doc08:20
=== lalo checks if he has dia
dafI don't require a diagram08:22
dafand perhaps an ASCII art diagram would be better than a dia one08:22
dafI suspect the doc would be best kept in arch as an RST file08:23
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laloeven if you don't require it, I'd rather have one - for the uml-speakers a state diagram is an instant reminder08:23
lalook. yay rst. :-)08:23
dafcarlos: https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1934 -- could we be more specific about what we need limi to do?08:24
carlosdaf: do a global review :-)08:33
dafokay, can it say that in the bug?08:33
carlosdaf: Alexander Limi should review all rosetta's templates and finish their UI review.08:34
carlosdaf: isn't that enough?08:34
dafoh, I missed that bug08:35
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #launchpad
carlosno problem08:35
carlosDoes python has a password generator?08:40
=== daf gives limi has a couple more bugs
dafcarlos: not that I know of, but we could probably have pwgen installed on the server08:42
carlosdaf: I found some .py to do that, is pwgen better than using the non-standard python class?08:43
carlosI don't have a preference08:43
dafpwgen generates passwords which are supposedly easier to remember08:44
=== daf installs "apg" to try that out as well
carlosdaf: I'm an apg user08:45
carlosit's fine08:45
dafI suggest we use one of those two08:45
carlosdaf: hey, you only need a 5% more to get cy into GNOME Translation Supported list :-D08:45
carlosdaf: ok08:45
carlosdaf: the apg one gives you the password and a phrase to remember it08:46
carloshow does pwgen works?08:46
dafsimilar to apg, I think08:46
dafit's a bit less fancy08:47
dafit generates passwords with different capitalisation and with numbers08:47
dafbut which are supposedly easier to remember than completely random ones08:47
carloscarlos@Gollum:~$ apg08:48
carlosPlease enter some random data (only first 8 are significant)08:48
carlos(eg. your old password):>08:48
carlosinkardOj1 (ink-ard-Oj-ONE)08:48
carlosDekbitUkIn1 (Dek-bit-Uk-In-ONE)08:48
carlosduoxAjIv9 (du-ox-Aj-Iv-NINE)08:48
carlosOkIkott8 (Ok-Ik-ott-EIGHT)08:48
carlosdoydlytGog7 (doyd-lyt-Gog-SEVEN)08:48
dafpwgen works more like apg -q08:48
carlosFryidBas8 (Fryid-Bas-EIGHT)08:48
daf> pwgen08:48
dafAhzosae6 Vi7laiqu uer0Hohf gaenei1A Nu4eenei thohY1ai Wengai7y aex5Eeta08:48
carlosdaf: please, decide it you :-P08:49
carlosdaf: are you working on a form to send mail?08:50
dafnot right now08:50
dafhmm, apg seems to mostly stick numbers on the ends08:51
carlosdaf: I'm thinking on add that feature to the account creation, create the account and then send an email with the password08:51
carloswith a welcome message and things like that08:51
carlosdaf: not always08:52
carlosI see number in other places08:52
dafI think "apt -q -n 1" will do fine08:52
carlosperhaps:  apg -q -n 1 -t is better08:53
dafwe need a password-changing mechanism -- I'll file a bug about that08:55
carlosdaf: point it to rosetta/prefs08:55
carlosI will take care of it08:56
dafcarlos: you can assign it to yourself if you like08:57
carlosdaf: about the welcomed mail, do we have anything that documents the way we will send mail. I know SteveA wants to use direct access to the 25 port08:57
dafand you might want to move it to Rosetta08:57
carlosbut do we have anything more about it or should I look into a way to do it08:57
dafI think you should use the standard smtplib library for now08:58
dafit looks fairly easy to use, from the example08:59
=== daf goes to make dinner
carlosdaf: do we have gettext installed ?09:02
carlosdaf: I think it's not installed09:03
carlosand we need it to create the .mo files09:03
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dafcarlos: ah, yes, we need it10:27
dafcarlos: can you send a request to the admins?10:27
carlosdaf: I did it already10:27
carlosdaf: and apg is not in warty :-(10:27
dafisn't it in universe?10:27
kikospiv, have a sec?10:28
carlosdaf: yes, but It's not supported10:28
carlosdaf: pwgen is available in warty10:28
carlosdaf: so we should use it instead of apg10:29
carlosdinner time, see you later10:29
dafokay, let's use pwgen then10:38
kikodaf, I fucked rosetta.wh again. :)10:39
dafkiko: bah :)10:39
dafkiko: it'll fix itself within 30 minutes10:39
=== kiko kicks rosetta
spivkiko: Yeah?10:40
kikospiv, I think I sorted it out already, we can fight it out over email10:40
spivOk :)10:41
dafkiko: okay, as a special favour, I've restarted it for you :)10:45
kikodaf, oh no, now I owe you *another* one10:46
dafyou owed me favours already?10:48
dafI mean yeah, darn right you do!10:48
kikowell, I just crashed it again..10:48
dafok, no biscuits for you10:48
kikoluckily I had stocked up on them10:49
dafthat reminds me, you need to bring me some Brazilian ones the next time we meet :)10:51
daflalo: no, biscuits10:54
dafthe biscuits in Brazil were very nice10:54
laloI can't think of such a thing as "Brazilian typical" biscuits10:54
laloyou mean a specific one you ate here?10:55
dafwell, they were some biscuits we picked up in the shop across the road from where the conference was10:55
dafwe had different varieties10:55
dafthey were all nice10:55
lalook, I'll bring some and you hope I happen to pick up the same ones :-)10:56
dafthey probably weren't very special10:56
dafthey were a few real10:56
dafbut I really liked them :)10:56
laloyeah, at a convenience store. You can get good biscuits for < R$1 at a supermarket10:57
kikospiv, any chance you can fit in some time to fix binary packages?11:36
kikospiv, they kill the server and that really annoys me when testing11:36

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