alextremek. besides that it's looking pretty neat. just need to get me a kernel that does work with cdrecord, want the mouse to work this time12:03
elmoaha, that's why apt-ftparchive is sometimes so slow - changing the seeds changes the overrides which invalidates some of it's caching12:04
elmomdz: I'm going to override Origin: to Ubuntu, and Bugs: to .. what?12:07
mdzelmo: mailto:some-address-get-it-from-justdave12:07
mdzjustdave: ping?12:07
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionfabbione: yo (but too late, I know)12:34
Kamionmdz: yo12:34
mdzKamion: I think I was going to ask you if the current daily was any good, but I tried it and ran into the same problem jdub had (hdparm vs. SCSI/USB drive)12:35
Kamionmdz: boot with cdrom-detect/cdrom_hdparm= on the kernel command line then12:36
mdzalextreme: when do you think the updated live CD can be ready?12:36
alextremei've got one ready now12:37
alextremejust hasn't been tested much12:37
Kamionmdz: p.s. having all man pages for a component or whatever in the one package would be SO MUCH CRACK12:37
mdzalextreme: let me at it; I'll give it some testing love12:37
mdzKamion: :-)12:37
jdub_live cd testing!12:37
jdubLATHER UP!12:37
alextremeokay, i'll do one final test and start uploading... which will take all night :)12:37
Kamionyou should so get in the habit of building in the LAN and rsyncing down for testing12:38
KamionI started doing that right after the pain of uploading Sounder CD 1 from here12:38
Kamionthat was about when I commandeered little for CD building :)12:39
alextremeyeah, i just need root (chroot) access for my autobuilder :)12:40
elmoyou don't need root, we have dchroot12:40
mdzdude, he needs to run debootstrap12:41
Uclintudoes warty have input methods outside of libgtk2.0-0 ?12:41
elmooh, I thought he meant root to get in the chroot12:41
elmothat's so not cool then :P12:41
mdzUclintu: yes12:41
mdzUclintu: uim, xim, etc.12:42
alextremewell, i wouldn't mind building in a chroot... :)12:42
Uclintumdz: those appear to be in universe12:42
elmoalextreme: root in a chroot is root.. that's not a possiblity I'm afraid, not on little12:42
mdzmako: ping?12:42
jdubUclintu: that's something we're looking at sorting out properly for Hoary12:43
alextremeelmo: yeah, that's what i guessed :)12:43
mdzmako: I thought we added the input method stuff to desktop, but apparently not, do you remember what happened?12:43
mdzer, supported12:43
mdzelmo: the automated job is going to need root regardless12:43
Uclintujdub: fair enough12:44
elmomdz: gar - we're only doing this crack for one arch right?12:44
mdzelmo: for warty :-)12:44
mdzjdub: is that what happened?  we decided to punt for warty?12:44
jdubdunno if it works already, but we're going to want install/live CDs for all arches :)12:45
jdubmdz: pretty much, being beyond freeze and knowing it'll be a lot of work12:45
elmoI think we need a bounty to de-root the stupid thing12:45
mdzjdub: I thought we had decided to add the couple of packages to supported so that people who already knew about them could get them easily12:45
alextremeelmo: thats going to be an interesting bounty, and not one i'm willing to take up :)12:46
Kamionelmo: fakechroot?12:46
KamionI thought elmo and lamont and I talked about this at the conference12:47
jdubthis lappy is so quiet :)12:47
elmokamion: don't think it was me12:47
KamionPackage: fakechroot12:47
KamionDescription: Gives a fake chroot environment12:47
Kamion This package provides a library which overrides libc functions, so12:47
Kamion it is possible to use root-specific tools without root priviliges.12:47
Kamion .12:47
Kamion In fake chroot you can install i.e. Debian boostrap, create developer's12:47
Kamion environment and build packages inside chroot'ed system using standard12:47
Kamion non-root user account.12:47
elmooh, maybe we did, I think my concern was that the guy seemed to have forked debootstrap to make it work with it12:48
Kamionelmo: yes, only one arch, there's not going to be time to get amd64 and powerpc working AFAIK12:48
Kamionjdub: we decided WAY back only to do i386 for warty12:48
jdubKamion: yeah, but in-future-ideally12:49
Kamionsure, yeah12:49
KamionI doubt amd64 is hard, powerpc might be interesting12:49
Kamion(but, hey, largely the sort of thing I do ...)12:49
mdzUML is probably the way to do it12:49
Kamionwhy not fakechroot? it exists, it's simple, it (allegedly) works12:49
mdzthen we can (allegedly) use it12:50
alextremei'll give it a spin, see if it works here12:50
mdzdoes fakechroot let you mount()?12:50
mdzdoesn't debootstrap mount /proc etc.?12:50
Kamionah, well, yes, fakechroot does talk about doing 'debootstrap --fakechroot', hmm12:51
mdzUML opens the possibility of actually booting and testing the thing12:51
Uclintumdz: he was talking about ignoring mount/umount and /proc issues back in apr 200312:51
Kamion setup_proc () {12:52
Kamion-  on_exit "umount $TARGET/proc"12:52
Kamion-  umount $TARGET/proc 2>/dev/null || true12:52
Kamion-  in_target mount -t proc proc /proc12:52
Kamion+#  on_exit "umount $TARGET/proc"12:52
Kamion+#  umount $TARGET/proc 2>/dev/null || true12:52
Kamion+#  in_target mount -t proc proc /proc12:52
Kamion+   for i in cmdline cpuinfo devices filesystems loadavg meminfo misc modules pa12:52
Kamionrtitions stat swaps uptime version; do12:52
Kamion+       cat /proc/$i > $TARGET/proc/$i12:52
Kamion+   done12:52
Kamion+   mkdir $TARGET/proc/112:52
Kamion }12:52
Kamionhm, ok12:52
Kamionthat's a bit gross12:52
=== bdale [~bdale@18-pool1.ras11.coden-le3.alerondial.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionmdz: and it closes the possibility of having a single build strategy on multiple architectures12:53
Kamionmdz: unless somebody actually finishes porting it to powerpc12:53
mdzKamion: it gives us 2 out of 3 architectures12:53
Kamion2 out of (3+however-many-derived-distributions-want-to-do)12:54
KamionI did mean "derived distributions", not "derived architectures" :-)12:54
mdzthen I don't understand how you arrived at that expression12:55
Kamionhowever many [architectures]  derived distributions want to do12:55
mdzelmo: do you need #270906 for the bug stuff?12:57
KamionI wonder how many bits of what debootstrap does actually require real root12:58
KamionI could imagine having those allowed by extremely limited sudo or a userv service or something12:59
mdzprobably not much beyond chroot/setuid/permissions type stuff12:59
Kamionability to untar archive containing device nodes, hm, that's probably about it ...12:59
Kamionthe last is a bit hard to limit though, although the tarball in question is in /usr/lib/debootstrap/ so you could assume it to be safe01:00
Kamionchroot <arbitrary command> is obviously too much though01:01
elmomdz: no, I can script around it trivially enough, it'd just be nice to some day not to have to01:01
elmo(thus wishlist)01:02
mdzshouldn't be too hard to implement01:02
alextremeUML :)01:02
Kamionhow about if the debootstrap-running script were separate and trusted? I thought it was going to run on the buildd anyway01:03
elmokamion: yes, it'll have to be01:03
Kamionwell, it's wrong to have it on little for reasons other than security anyway01:03
elmoit's certainly going on the buildd rather than say little, but that doesn't mean I'm happy with it having root01:03
Kamionsure :-/01:04
elmoare these Xserves UP or are we running a UP kernel?01:04
KamionIIRC they're SMP but we're running a UP kernel01:04
Kamionbecause getting the UP kernel up was hard enough without trying to deal with SMP too01:04
mdzso out of our 3 architectures, only 1 actually works SMP01:04
KamionI think thom said he'd try to take one down (ross?) and see if the SMP kernel Just Worked01:05
Kamionbut dunno if that happened01:05
justdavemdz / elmo: pong01:06
Uclintuspeaking of kernels working...01:06
Uclintuwant any other info for #496?01:06
justdavethat an address for bug reports you're looking for?01:06
elmojustdave: yeah01:06
KamionUclintu: that bug's way over my head, I'm afraid, dunno about anyone else01:06
Kamionunfortunately it's the sort of thing where sitting at the console and screwing around is about my only chance ...01:06
justdavewe don't have one yet.  I don't think we can do inbound email on macquarie, so we probably need to create one somewhere.01:07
mdzjustdave: we need it very soon01:07
UclintuKamion: let me know when you're dropping by01:07
KamionUclintu: might be worth hacking the initrd script to run with sh -x, if that's feasible01:07
=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionthen we could at least see WTF's going on01:07
justdavegot a way to forward the mail to macquarie from whatever machine gets it, or want macquarie polling for it?01:07
Uclintuwhich initrd script?01:07
Kamion/sbin/init in the initrd01:07
elmojustdave: ideally macquarie would poll01:07
KamionI'm assuming it's a shell script01:08
UclintuKamion: yeah; #!/bin2/sh01:08
elmoI can set something up on ubuntu.com, if needs be, just tell me what01:08
=== Uclintu curses cramfs.
justdaveprobably want something like submit@bugzilla.no-name-yet.com01:09
Kamiondoes the second arg you pass to pivot_root have to exist before you call it?01:10
Kamionpivot_root . initrd01:10
=== Gman_ [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
KamionUclintu: does your root filesystem have an /initrd directory?01:10
UclintuUclintu: yup, empty01:11
justdavegive me a pop3 mailbox I can get at from macquarie or something01:11
KamionUclintu: hm, in that case it suggests to me that it's mounting the wrong root filesystem somehow01:11
KamionUclintu: oh, what's the $Id$ at the top of /sbin/init in your initrd?01:11
Kamion# $Id: init,v 1.56 2004/05/18 10:48:15 herbert Exp $01:12
Uclintuyes, that's the one01:12
elmojustdave: okay, adding that to my todo list01:12
KamionI think I'd check the value of root=01:12
Uclintuin yaboot.conf?01:13
Kamion/dev/hda7, I see01:13
Kamionsh -x should tell you what it's actually trying to mount, anyway01:14
Uclintuokay, i'll replace the initrd and reboot01:14
justdavethat Bugs: header is in the .deb file for packages?01:15
Kamionjustdave: it's in the Packages index file01:17
Kamionjustdave: it may or may not be in the .deb; in this case I think it typically won't be, it'll be overridden in the archive maintenance scripts01:17
justdaveprobably won't help me anyway because they mostly point at bugs.debian.org probably. :)01:18
Kamionsubmit@bugzilla.ubuntu.com rather than bugzilla.no-name-yet.com perhaps?01:18
justdaveI was looking for an easy way to find out who the upstream is for a given package01:18
Kamiondunno what the rules for that are right now, but we need something we can wire into packages01:18
Kamionthere's no machine-parseable way to get that information01:18
justdavedo we have ubuntu.com now?  I thought we weren't supposed to use it yet01:19
Kamionwe're not supposed to use it for web content ... elmo, is mail there ok?01:19
elmokamion: I think so, yeah01:20
elmo[if it's not, not hard to change the overrides..] 01:21
thomyeah, i was gonna try the SMP kernels when we didn't need all the buildds for a while :-)01:21
thomTMBG were frickin' excellent live01:21
=== edd notes it's about time he saw thom again
elmoGAR, need new chair!01:22
thomedd: come to london, we can do malaysian again :-)01:23
eddthom: i should do. i was just down there at the weekend.01:23
alextrememdz: k, it's still a little rough (duh) and uses 2.6.7. had to revert to the old kernel, was giving overlaying problems01:24
alextremebut it's uploading, so i don't want to think about it anymore :)01:25
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
Uclintuisn't mounting real root01:25
alextremetime to watch some mindless furutama and purge the livecd wackyness from my brain01:26
UclintuWhy am I plagued with the idea that hda may have transformed into hdc?01:28
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
makomdz: input method stuff shoudldn't go in desktop yet01:29
makomdz: there are just too many of them and each one writes interfaces to all the others01:29
makomdz: supported, yes01:30
makomdz: scim, uim, and m17n are the ones i like01:30
makomdz: i'd *really* prefer to have users who are inputting text though tell us what they're using though.. i just don't have a sense for what is actually being used or even useful and it's hard for me to test01:32
jdubthere's some freedesktop unification work going on atm01:33
jdubnot sure if that'll be hoaryable, but it would be nice01:33
UclintuI use uim these days, but I'm not totally pleased with it.01:33
makojdub: well scim and uim are both in freedesktop now01:34
makojdub: i THINL everything is going toward scim at the top 01:35
mjg59Urgh. Input managers.01:35
mjg59It would be nice if X had some method for inserting arbitrary UTF-8 characters01:36
mjg59It'd remove a lot of the pain01:36
makothere's plenty of pain left01:37
Uclintuit's way better than it used to be01:37
makooh sure, absolutely01:37
Uclintuback when you had to use particular locales for each IM01:37
makoOskuro: DUDE!01:37
Oskuromako: so where's the OLIVE STUFF!01:38
Keybukdoesn't GTK+ have all of its own IM stuff as well?01:38
makoOskuro: http://mako.yukidoke.org/copyrighteous/01:38
=== ddaa [~david@nemesis.xlii.org] has left #ubuntu ["Client]
makoOskuro: i just put it up like 2 minutes ago01:38
Oskuromako: oh so it's there?01:38
Oskurooh, lol01:38
OskuroI looked at planet01:39
OskuroKamion: I wonder if there's some kind of ubuntu d-i big tarball where I can look for the ca.po's.01:39
Oskuro"The went into more detail"01:41
Oskurotypo there01:41
Oskurogotta go to bed.01:43
=== Oskuro pokes Kamion
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
Uclintuwell, that would explain it01:47
makoKeybuk: gtk has some stuff im stuff, but not very advanced stuff01:49
KamionUclintu: hda/hdc have been known to swap due to ATA-100, but I thought that problem was gone01:52
KamionOskuro: no, not yet01:52
UclintuKamion: the real problem is that it's only finding my second IDE controller01:52
KamionOskuro: you could probably walk /dists/warty/main/debian-installer/binary-*/Packages.gz reasonably automatically ...01:52
KamionUclintu: oho01:52
Uclintui'm going to force a "modprobe -k cmd64x" in loadmodules and see if that helps any01:52
KamionUclintu: is there something unusual about the first one?01:52
Uclintuit's a cmd64601:53
Kamionwow, elderly01:53
Kamiondoes the installer work on that?01:53
mdzdaniels: ping01:53
UclintuI don't remember if I've ever tried an install.01:53
Kamionyou don't actually have to overwrite anything on the disk, just boot the CD, run through the UI up to the start of partitioning, and see if it displays all your disks01:53
Kamionjdub: huh, preview release is Wednesday, not Monday?01:54
Uclintui've only got sounder 4 burned; that relevant?01:54
mdzKamion: yes, always has been01:54
Kamionmdz: somebody needs to update http://wiki.no-name-yet.com/WartyWarthog not to lie, then01:54
mdzUclintu: no, it really isn't. please do try a sounder 8 though01:54
KamionUclintu: well, that's only 2.6.7, but it would be a useful data point01:54
mdzKamion: that indicates the week in which it is scheduled01:55
mdzit is admittedly misleading01:55
Uclintuokay, first my loadmodules hack01:55
Kamionmdz: it's so not helpful :)01:55
mdzKamion: feel free :-)01:55
Kamionand gold release is Oct 15th?01:55
Kamion"anal-retentive, high-caution period"01:57
jdubum, the date has always been correct though01:58
KamionI guess this week has been relatively cautious compared to last week01:58
debianistwhat's the official release date?01:58
jdubdebianist: preview on the 15th01:58
Kamionjdub: the WartyWarthog page did not have those dates anywhere on it that I could see01:58
debianistof october?01:58
Kamionjdub: only the date of the preceding Monday01:59
jdubfinal in october01:59
debianistjdub : and security review is due by the 15th or the final in october?01:59
OskuroKamion: yeah, that's enough, thanks01:59
Oskuronight all01:59
jdubdebianist: it's just a running process02:00
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
Uclintuso, forcing "modprobe -k cmd64x" into loadmodules, then booting with "Linux root=/dev/hdc7" got me here, after several screenfuls of ieee1394 spew and a lack of the ethernet driver being loaded02:02
Uclintushould I record this in the same bug, a different bug, or unspecified action?02:03
jdubKamion: (also informed by the date of the gnome release, which, should it slip, is the date of our release)02:03
mdzdebianist: the initial review needs to be done by preview, yes02:03
mdzjdub: how is that looking, by the way?  will gnome make it?02:03
KamionUclintu: same bug I think02:04
jdubunless something completely bizarre happens, it's looking fine02:04
mdzjdub: wanted to run a couple of menu ideas by you02:04
debianistmdz : noted. guess not much sleep for the coming week :)02:05
mdzjdub: what do you think about removing ggv from the menu?  it's not particularly useful to run by itself, even if the user does have postscript files to work with02:05
KamionI don't think any of us will be getting much sleep between now and preview :P02:06
mdzassuming there is a way to hide it from the menu and still let the mime association stuff work02:06
KamionI warned my gf today that I'd probably be going into hiding02:06
jdubmdz: there are a number of file handling apps like that, i don't think we should remove them from the menu at this stage of the release (!!!) because there's no other way for users to find/run it beyond having files already02:07
mdzjdub: that's just the point: running ggv is damn near useless02:07
jdubmdz: the menu is currently like /Applications; it's not a convenience, it's everything02:08
jdubmdz: i don't think it's appropriate to make what are essentially UI policy changes like that at this end of the release process02:08
mdzI had a feeling you'd say something like that02:09
jdubmdz: that said, it is definitely possible to do it without affecting the mime system (you just pull the categories line out)02:09
jdubwell come on02:09
jdubwe're already fucking around with all kinds of other things02:09
jdubi don't like making UI changes without useful design/thought/testing02:10
jdubwe're hardly finding / dealing with the side-effects of the other things we're changing02:10
jduband totally abusing the release process as we go02:11
lifelessrelease process? wassat?02:14
mdzjdub: we're not talking about software engineering here; this is totally harmless stability-wise, and I asked for your opinion.  there is no need to be hostile about it02:14
mdzit's hardly any different than deciding to kick something out of desktop into supported, which we just did, with your emphatic agreement, a couple of days ago02:15
mdzand that's the next best thing02:15
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
Uclintuthat did not go well02:17
mdzUclintu: cd test?02:17
Uclintuyeah, it loaded ide-scsi before cmd64x, then spent an inordinate of time playing with sd_mod before I lost all patience02:18
mdzew, ide-scsi02:20
mdzwhose fault is that?02:20
jdubmdz: not hostile02:22
Kamiondiscover (0.9.10) unstable; urgency=low02:22
Kamion  * Hard-coded a special case: add ide-scsi as a SCSI driver if IDE CD-ROM02:22
Kamion    drives are present.  This way, all CD-ROMS will be treated as SCSI,02:22
Kamion    and burners will work out of the box.02:22
KamionI'm guessing02:23
mdzKamion: does d-i rely on that?02:23
KamionI'd be surprised02:23
Kamionalthough who knows :-)02:23
mdzif not, we should revert that02:23
Hrdwr_BoBKamion, but last time I checked, sg.o wasn't loaded, so it didn't work ANYWAY02:23
jdubmdz: stability is also a UI issue, not just a code issue02:23
KamionHrdwr_BoB: quite, but that's a separate bug which I've already replied to02:24
mdzHrdwr_BoB: ide-scsi is neither necessary, nor a good idea, for writing CDs anyway02:24
Hrdwr_BoByeah, agreed02:24
jdubi had to load sg manually too02:24
KamionUclintu: could you file a bug about the ide-scsi thing? I'll fix it tomorrow02:24
Kamionjdub: hence #103702:25
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-250-175.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionanyway, I so have to go; night all02:26
UclintuKamion: #112802:26
jdubso, replacing dsdt crack - is that fixable in a general way?02:26
KamionUclintu: thanks02:26
lifelessjdub: dsdt's are machine specific02:26
mdzI've just given up on CD writing02:27
mdzI just write DVDs with growisofs02:27
mdzwhich does not require ide-scsi madness *or* scsi generic madness02:27
lifelessAIUI you need someone that knows the acpi assembly to review the dsdst, fix it, and then it can get loaded into your kernel as a fix.02:27
lifelessI don't know if there is a database-looked step (machine x, oh it needs *that* override) or not.02:28
lifelessI have two laptops here that badly need dsdst loving though :|02:28
jameshis it something that a bios upgrade could fix?02:33
jdubacpi.sf.net has a collection of dsdts for specific machines + bioses02:42
jdubthere's one there for my machine/bios combination02:42
jdubbut it requires patching the kernel02:42
jdubwhich doesn't seem particularly generalisable02:42
jdub(the way it's patched, the the requirement for patching)02:43
=== jdub wonders how his lappy handles mediabase hotplugging...
=== StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu
KeybukI thought the load custom dsdt stuff was quite generic?02:46
Keybukyou just compile it into your kernel02:46
jdubby excluding the existing foo02:46
jdub(it seems)02:46
=== Gman_ [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
danielsmdz: pingmdzpong03:04
danielsum, yeah03:04
=== haggai_ [~halls@pD9EA624A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu
mdzdaniels: going to take care of #1056 today?03:49
danielsjdub: could you please subscribe lsd@linuxgamers.net to sounder? he tried to subscribe a while ago but never heard anything03:51
danielsmdz: yes, hopefully03:51
danielsmdz: i have a dist-upgrade configuring shit now, and maybe tetex will work after this one03:51
=== bdale [~bdale@216-43-77-134.dsl.mcleodusa.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== cef_work [~cef@fw-01.amc.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
cef_workhrm, I just thought of something after noticing the xchat stuff. we're going to end up with people in here asking general questions. We're probably going to need another channel for devel stuff, and also we might want an infobot (like dpkg & apt on #debian) for the common questions and answers04:44
diemani could never learn dvorak unless i actually had a dvorak keybaord04:56
diemanbut they dont make a microsoft natural elite in dvorak :)04:56
diemani keep on wanting to get a frogpad04:56
=== Riff [~davyd@cook.theducks.org] has joined #ubuntu
diemannow i remember why i hate dvorak05:14
diemani have to fuck with vi to get my vi keys back :)05:14
=== stub [~zen@dialup-] has joined #ubuntu
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-30-53.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
Riffman, I'm not geeky enough05:23
RiffI thought you meant the composer05:23
kagoujdub, have you seen my request ?05:24
jdubkagou: hrm, no?05:24
kagoui had written a too big mail to the list, waiting for your approbation05:24
kagou""Release8 reportinstallation" is the subject05:25
kagouthanks jdub :) 05:26
=== jdub is in luxury with fast new laptop
spivjdub: If only you could have made the toilet seat faster, you'd have the best of both worlds... a hoverseat! ;)05:30
Riffjdub: did you patch your DSDT ?05:30
jdubRiff: stopped given business and inability to compile iasl05:31
jdubmight ask steven if he already did his05:31
Riffutuntu :: now with Dell support!05:31
jdubi don't think the dsdt hacking stuff is very generalisable though05:32
Riffit all gets merged upstream eventually05:33
Riffthe linux ACPI code is full of workarounds for specific machines and fuck knows what else05:34
Riffthis is apparently why the BSD guys refuse to support ACPI05:34
jameshRiff: what will they do when there are no more machines their OS will run on?05:34
Riffjamesh: I have no idea05:35
Riffmaybe they blissfully believe IBM will have APM forever05:35
RiffI mean, this laptop doesn't have APM05:35
jameshif you have working APM, is there any benefit in trying to get ACPI working?05:36
Riffjamesh: not unless you're trying to do fucked up things I guess05:36
RiffACPI is infinitely configurable05:36
Riffit's a much better design from the OS<->Hardware layer05:37
Riffif only people didn't make mistakes in implementing it05:37
RiffAPM is all hardware, so your OS has to do a lot of work to cope with it05:37
=== sabdfl [~mark@wblv-228-55.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu
Riffthere are also lots of magic weird BIOS routines to get APM to do things05:37
RiffACPI doesn't have that05:37
RiffACPI tells you a button was pressed, you do all the work yourself to prepare for suspend state05:38
Riffthen you tell ACPI to suspend05:38
jdub"The world's biggest ice-cream maker plans to genetically modify ice blocks in an attempt slow down the melt rate."05:38
Riffwhat exactly are they genetically modifing?05:38
Riffbecause that one sounds a little scary05:39
=== Riff is all for GM food usually
jameshI'm sure everyone would support GM if it could keep their beer colder longer05:43
Riffjamesh: you're a genius05:43
kagoujdub, i don't see the mail in sound list :/ It takes long time to be approved ?05:54
jdubshould be coming through05:58
kagouit's ok06:07
jdubmy ipw2200 can't associate unless the ssid is published06:23
lamontkamion about?06:25
KeybukKamion: at 5:25am?  You've got to be kidding06:25
lamonteveryone is so timezone rotated these days, you see.06:27
=== Keybuk is awake
Keybukthat pretty much guarantees most UKers won't be06:27
lamontjdub: even when you set the SSID??06:34
jdubit's bong06:34
jdubif the ssid is not published06:34
jduband you set the ssid, ap, channel, everything06:35
jdubit doesn't work06:35
jdubas soon as you publish it, whammo06:35
fabbionemdz: argh!06:44
fabbionemdz: why did you upload linux-restricted?06:44
fabbionei had to add the nvidia drivers & co that require a new orig.tar.gz06:45
=== fabbione summons mdz
=== wartylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu
=== reformed [~ben@ppp2C13.dsl.pacific.net.au] has joined #Ubuntu
=== mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-082-140-133.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== bdale [~bdale@216-43-77-134.dsl.mcleodusa.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== stub [~zen@dialup-] has joined #ubuntu
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-30-53.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
=== cef_work [~cef@fw-01.amc.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== haggai_ [~halls@pD9EA624A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-250-175.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== ctd [~ctd@ctd.user] has joined #ubuntu
=== justdave [~dave@] has joined #ubuntu
=== whiprush [~jorge@arslinux.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== jdub [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== HcE [~hc@66.80-202-212.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu
=== Mithrandir [~tfheen@vawad.raw.no] has joined #ubuntu
=== spiv [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu
=== SteveA [~steve@adsl-213-190-44-43.takas.lt] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== sto [~sto@224.Red-80-59-203.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== mdz [~mdz@] has joined #ubuntu
=== Clint [~asdfasf@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== SurcouF [~surcouf@debianfr.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== Oskuro [~jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== lifeless [~robertc@dsl-] has joined #ubuntu
=== thom [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== Riddell [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== ik5pvx [~Bus_Error@paperino.noc.seabone.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== dieman [~dieman@3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org] has joined #ubuntu
=== Hrdwr_BoB [~hrdwrbob@c210-49-180-240.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== daniels [daniel@fooishbar.org] has joined #ubuntu
=== daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== revlob [dave@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== bob2 [rob@bob2.user] has joined #ubuntu
=== glyph [~glyph@h00095bd2b849.ne.client2.attbi.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== edd [dancer@] has joined #ubuntu
=== hypatia [~mary@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu
=== polvi [~polvi@polvi.staff.osuosl] has joined #ubuntu
=== moquist [~moquist@pool-70-16-218-149.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== Kamion [~cjwatson@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== elmo [~james@] has joined #ubuntu
=== [Clint] [~c123p456@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== cef [~cef@c211-28-159-51.thoms1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:irc.freenode.net] : SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/
=== mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu
Keybukthat's interesting07:02
Keybukif you set __getattr__ in a class, it doesn't actually work07:02
Keybukinstance, that is07:02
jameshKeybuk: well, the tp_getattr slot is a per-class thing07:07
jameshand they cache the actual function in effect for user defined classes07:08
=== Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionei guess i will have to rollout a new orig.tar.gz07:37
fabbionethe package was already accepted07:37
=== fabbione sighs
fabbionelinux-restricted-modules- ( -> linux-restricted-modules- (
fabbionelamont: does it make sence to you?07:38
lamontfabbione: no, but then, I'm asleep07:39
fabbioneeheh ok.. good night :-)07:40
=== jdub catches up on mail insanity
=== HrdwrBoB [hrdwrbob@220-253-60-112.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu
lamontfabbione: soon.07:49
fabbionethe nvidia driver maintainer is on full crack!08:10
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
pittiGood morning everybody!08:16
fabbionehey pitti08:18
=== Keybuk figures out why his test case is breaking
Keybukwrite() -> pipe -> cat -> pipe -> read()08:23
Keybukyou cannae doooo that cap'n08:23
lamontKeybuk: can too..08:39
lamontyou just have to be very, very careful...08:39
lamontbecause it's bad to have both sides waiting on a full pipe...08:40
lifelesslamont: deadlocks are fun!08:41
Keybuko/~ when two pipes go to war08:41
Keybuko/~ your process just don't run anymore08:41
lifelessoh gawd.08:41
lifelessI'm off to tong's birthday party. catch ya.08:42
lamontKeybuk: and you must be "this tall" to use signals./08:49
lamontit's doable, but very non-trivial, and not for the weak of heart...\08:50
lamontanyway, finally off to bed.08:50
=== jdub tries burning a warty cd with the new lappy
=== jamesh rebuilds gnome-vfs
fabbionethis is gonna be more complicated than expected09:05
Keybuk>>> util.shell.run(("time", "ls"), stderr=sys.stdout)09:17
Keybuk0.00user 0.00system 0:00.00elapsed 80PU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k09:17
Keybuk0inputs+0outputs (0major+241minor)pagefaults 0swaps09:17
Keybuk*useful* Python process handling at last09:18
Mithrandirevolution should have an "Academic" mode.09:38
Mithrandirwhere the default start point is 15 minutes past09:39
MithrandirI'm serious, most of the stuff I put into the calendar is meetings with professors and such, and I have to change the details of them every single time09:40
jameshI've now got network volumes showing in "Network" rather than "Computer".09:43
fabbionea lot of new icons!09:54
=== Mithrandir whines a bit, chinstrap's network connection is slow.
Mithrandirit takes me almost 1:30 to upload 50MB.09:59
HcEMithrandir: you are on Gls right?10:00
Mithrandirbut I'm off for meetings until 1400 in two minutes or so10:01
MithrandirHcE: why?10:02
HcEMithrandir: you were complaining of slow uplink, so I thought you might be in Brazil again;)10:02
MithrandirHcE: heh, we didn't have _anything_ like that in .br10:02
MithrandirI was complaining about chinstrap's uplink, though, not our. :P10:04
Keybukif it took you that long, someone's probably stuck an anchor though the Norway cable again10:07
Keybukchinstrap has more bandwidth than that10:07
=== fabbione hugs ccache
fabbionenvidia packages are coming up nice and dandy10:25
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-3-146.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
jameshhi seb10:34
seb128hey jamesh 10:34
seb128got your mail, read it, but not tried the patch yet :)10:34
seb128I need some coffee before starting on this :p10:35
=== debianist [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu
debianistmorning everybody10:35
jameshthey seem to work pretty well here :)10:35
seb128hello debianist 10:35
debianisthey seb12810:37
seb128jdub: did you resend the mail ? 10:37
seb128weird weird10:37
jdubseb128: the computer menu layout has totally changed again?10:37
seb128that's the layout that Mark gave on IRC 2 days ago10:38
jdubit almost completely renders my mail invalid anyway10:39
jdubat least the menu related bits10:40
jdubbecause now it's totally different again10:40
seb128I would like to get it BTW, on which email did you send it ?10:40
jdubi'll be back later tongiht10:40
jduband staying up10:40
jdubso i'll chat to you then10:40
seb128I receive emails on this one, I got ~30 mails on the sounder list during the night10:40
=== seb128 thinks jdub has mails problems :p
Keybukhe's probably let lifeless set it up10:41
jdubthere haven't been any issues with my mail since last week's dns re-registration10:43
jduboh, hotplugging on the docking station does work10:45
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
jdubyo Kamion 10:45
=== ross_ [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
jdubKamion: are we supposed to be asking the keyboard map question?10:46
=== jdub wasn't sure if we managed to nuke it
jdubalso, the "do you want to use ppp to install" question?10:47
Kamionjdub: pre-reboot or post-reboot?10:47
KamionI thought the X guys nuked it, but that's outside my domain so I'm not sure10:48
jdubalso, i didn't set up the network on one install, but it still attempted to update from the network10:48
Kamionjdub: ppp, yes; you have to ask it at that point so dialup guys get security updates10:48
Kamionyeah, that's fabbione's apt-setup changes, it should fail harmlessly if you don't have a network10:48
jdubwhich didn't suck badly, but a bunch of errors came up on the screen10:48
=== Kinnison [~dsilvers@extgw-uk.mips.com] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionehey Kinnison 10:54
=== Kinnison hugs fabbione
Kamionjdub: yeah, I noticed those too10:54
debianistmorning Kamion11:01
debianistdoes supported has enough packages in it to be able to setup ubuntu as a development, testing system?11:02
fabbioneat least... i am developing ubuntu with ubuntu :-)11:04
debianistfabbione : have you installed QEMU from a debian package as I recall kamion told me it's not on the repo?11:05
debianistfabbione : or a ubuntu pacakge ?11:05
fabbionei can't remember11:08
fabbioneit was a hilw ago11:08
fabbionewhile even11:08
=== Gman is now known as GmanAFK
debianistfabbione : what's the size of your ubuntu partition that you're using as a dev plat. ?11:14
fabbionedebianist: i use a lot.. but that's because I maintain X :-911:21
fabbionedebianist: if you are not planning to play with libc6 or Openoffice or X, a few hundred MB are more than enough11:21
=== [Clint] [~c123p456@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== cef [~cef@c211-28-159-51.thoms1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
=== ddaa [~david@nemesis.xlii.org] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionfabbione: uh, a few hundred MB isn't enough to install Ubuntu11:30
fabbioneKamion: argh... it was "platform"11:30
fabbionei read partition11:30
fabbionemy /usr/src is 30GB11:30
fabbionebut i am "unusual"11:30
debianistthe link to the current status on the wiki is not so obvious, maybe a toplevel link should be added?11:34
fabbionedoko: ping11:39
fabbioneNV_PATCH_SYSFS ?= 011:40
fabbionea statement like that in a Makefile...11:40
fabbionewhat does it mean?11:40
=== fabbione is confused
pittiseb128: the new "Disks" and "Network" items in the Computer menu are still untranslated11:41
pittiseb128: will you do a new upload in the next time where I can give you the German translations?11:41
seb128for sure, I've added them yesterday11:41
pittifabbione: this is to allow udev to create the /dev/nvidia0 device automatically11:41
seb128but managing the translations for menus changes is not easy11:41
seb128we keep changing them11:41
pittifabbione: I don't know about the current kernels/nvidia patches, but several months ago you had to mknod the device by hand11:42
seb128that's a waste of time, we should wait to freeze the layout and string before making translations11:42
fabbionepitti: no sorry.. i want to understand the "?="11:42
fabbionewhat does that return?11:42
pittifabbione: ah. Assign only if not already assigned11:42
pittiseb128: agreed, I'll send you the translations after string freeze (when will that be?)11:43
=== fabbione sees a new world in front of him
seb128pitti: no idea, when Mark will be ok with the menu I guess11:43
seb128the sooner the better ...11:44
pittiseb128: but I think the translations should be okay by Wednesday11:44
seb128"should" ?11:44
pittiseb128: as soon as heise sees the announcement they will test the distri11:44
seb128yes, that's late to do changes, I agree11:45
seb128but not my decision11:45
pittiseb128: and if these guys see untranslated items, they will compoain about this11:45
pittiseb128: complain11:45
seb128I know11:45
seb128and I agree11:45
pittiseb128: okay, I assume there will be an official announcement on sounders/warthogs ML?11:45
seb128but I'm not the guy who decides of the menu layout, I'm just changing them11:45
seb128announcement about what ?11:46
Kamionfabbione: info make -> Using Variables -> Setting, btw11:47
pittiseb128: announcement about the string freeze11:47
pittiseb128: I know it's not your fault :-)11:48
seb128yes, I'll mail the list again for translations soon if we are ok with the menu11:48
pittiseb128: that would be great, same procedure as last time11:49
fabbioneKamion: thx11:57
=== alextreme [~alex@am.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-240-059.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
fabbione-rw-r--r-- root/root   5189023 2004-09-10 12:39:27 ./lib/modules/
debianistpitti : are we opting for automatic nvidia proprierity driver install out of the box ?12:40
fabbionedebianist: they will be in restricted12:41
fabbionewe can't distribute them on CD12:41
debianistfabbione : i see.12:41
fabbioneiirc all the licence stuff12:41
fabbionebut i am preparing the packages right now12:41
debianistfabbione : we should then provide an automagic install for them...although that might be far than trivial12:41
fabbione(see the UHUHUH above ;))12:41
fabbionedebianist: what more magic than apt-get install do you need?12:42
debianistfabbione : me needs only that old fashion, good'o magic..however for the layman?12:42
debianistfabbione : or apt-get install would suffice and handle all that's needed to next reboot into the driver?12:42
fabbionethat can't be done12:43
fabbioneX config needs to be changed12:43
fabbioneand i am not going to bust working config automatically12:44
Kamionfabbione: AIUI we *are* distributing them on CD12:46
Kamionfabbione: at least, that's what I was told when I asked12:46
debianistfabbione : k12:46
fabbionethe nvidia maintainer is on full heavy crack12:48
fabbioneit has one driver and 2 libs splitted in 20 packages12:48
=== fabbione sighs
debianistfabbione : hmm besides, we should let them have some fun at it aren't we? ;-)12:49
debianistwhat's good in a linux system if everything happens by itself ? :)12:50
=== fabbione goes and gets some food
HrdwrBoB2.1.1 Rights. Customer may install and use one copy of the SOFTWARE on a single computer, and except for making one back-up copy of the Software, may not otherwise copy the SOFTWARE.12:54
HrdwrBoBI daresay that says - you can't put it on the CD12:54
pittidaniels: can you say anything about #149631? the bug trail says that it's "hopefully fixed in 4.3". Hmmm.12:54
elmoMithrandir: Rejected: Unknown distribution `unstable'. <-- amd64-libs01:11
Kamionnote to self: test on right architecture before saying you can't reproduce a bug any more01:14
Mithrandirelmo: ugh. :/01:16
=== Keyb [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
fabbioneelmo: do you have 5 minutes?01:17
fabbioneelmo: i have a few problems packaging the nvidia stuff since the debian packages are splitted all over contrib and non-free01:18
fabbioneelmo: should i move all of them into restricted?01:18
fabbioneit's the dependency hell....01:18
elmofabbione: let me go have a look at the pkg01:19
=== Mithrandir uploads amd64-libs again
elmogar, that license is a freaking nightmare01:22
fabbioneelmo: yes but it can be in non-free.. that's not the problem really...01:23
elmohah, I'm glad you're so sure, the actual license doesn't even remotely give us permission01:24
fabbioneelmo: it's in debian/copyright01:24
fabbionethere is a mail exchange between nvidia and the debian maintainer01:24
fabbionei think that's the one you are looking for01:24
elmowhich is mail to the _Debian_ maintainer and bits from the README (which isn't legally binding in anyway)01:24
elmoanyway, WRT your original question, I think the only sane thing to do is dump it all in restricted.  the stuff in contrib is contrib-material and such really doesn't belong in main, and I don't want to create yet another component01:26
fabbioneelmo: ok. neither i want another component01:28
fabbioneelmo: 2.1.2  Linux Exception. 01:29
fabbionethis is interesting for us becuase it allows the redistribution01:29
Kamionfabbione: I asked lifeless to make base-config a fairly high priority for importing, BTW01:29
fabbioneKamion: ok01:30
fabbioneKamion: but hopefully i won't have to touch it anymore01:30
Kamionfabbione: although I want the debian-installer source package first 'cos otherwise I have to upload it every time I tweak the documentation, which will cause elmo to kill me01:30
Kamion(since it's byhand)01:30
Kamionfabbione: you wish :-)01:30
elmoit's very easy byhand nowadays, I really don't mind - it's only problematic 'cos it requires me to be around still01:30
elmokamion: btw, please let me know when I can trash the -1- kernel images01:31
Kamionelmo: I just uploaded linux-kernel-di-* with the -2- images, so once there's been a CD built with those01:31
elmooh, nm, I see the new amd64/i386 ones01:31
KamionI'll do that later today, might as well01:31
Kamionhm, I should start building an amd64 mirror01:33
KamionI so need a faster net connection01:33
fabbioneelmo: just to be 100% clear... all kernel modules will go to linux-restricted-modules, right?01:36
fabbioneall + restricted of course01:37
elmofabbione: err, I dunno?01:38
elmomy only involvement with linux-* is archive-wise01:38
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionew, whatever I did to the Ubuntu logo for the ISOLINUX splash screen is well horrible02:14
Kamionor ppmtolss16 has arsed it up really badly, or something02:15
KamionI think it might be getting confused by JPEG artifacts02:18
Keybukheh, or the melting letters?02:19
Mithrandirit might be better to render it to something else than JPEG, perhaps?02:19
KamionMithrandir: the problem is I'm rendering *from* JPEG02:19
MithrandirI thought we had SVG?02:19
Kamionwhen I get an SVG version, I'll use that02:20
Kamionbut I haven't seen it yet ...02:20
MithrandirI thought we already had.02:20
Kamionit's not on the Logos page anyway02:20
=== Mithrandir downloads ooo-amd64 so he can build and test it on his home machine so he can upload it again.
Keybukknowing ImageNation they're puzzling over what SVG is right now02:21
Keybukand trying to find some JPEG-to-SVG converter02:21
Kamiondon't tempt fate02:21
Mithrandirsomebody could just potrace it or something.02:21
Keybukmmm... potrace02:21
Kamionoh, bugger off, annoying buzzy fly02:21
Kamionah, phew, there it goes02:21
Keybukpotrace is our friend02:22
Keybukeven if elmo won't approve the maintainer <g>02:22
Kamionthat's so evil, I might just have to use it02:22
MithrandirI've had good results with it before.02:22
Mithrandirmight take a bit of tuning, though02:22
elmohmm, I'm fairly sure Bartoz is in the just-needs-an-account-creating stage, actually02:23
Mithrandir199M    openoffice.org-amd64_1.1.2-2ubuntu4.tar.gz02:23
Kamion"The input image should only use the two colors black and white." hmm02:23
Kamionwas kind of hoping for colour02:23
MithrandirKamion: flatten it first, then?02:23
Mithrandirand then recolor it using inkscape or something02:23
Mithrandiryes, it sucks02:23
elmoMithrandir: you're kidding?02:25
Mithrandirelmo: the .tar.gz?02:25
elmowhy so big?02:25
Mithrandirelmo: it's OOO done ia32-libs-style.02:25
Kamionoh, and why does something with a dash in its version have a .tar.gz?02:26
MithrandirI agree02:26
MithrandirKamion: because it's the amd64 version of that exact i386 version.02:26
Kamionyes, but, but02:26
Mithrandirsuggestions welcome. :)02:26
KamionI'd be inclined to s/-/./02:26
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
Mithrandirmakes the version number ambigious02:26
Keybukit's not exactly policy that they can't02:26
MithrandirI could do .orig.tar.gz and then put the debian/ directory in the diff, though02:27
=== Keybuk hides his native-package-with-a-dash-in-the-version
KamionMithrandir: that would be kinder to mirrors02:27
Keybukit's worse than some abortions I've seen02:27
MithrandirKamion: not really, the whole thing has to be rebuilt if the OOO-for-i386 changes.02:27
Keybuksuch as an empty .orig.tar.gz (all the files get added in the diff)02:27
Keybukor an empty .diff.gz02:27
Keybukuh, better than, I mean02:27
KamionKeybuk: I think it is against policy, but you have to read it carefully02:27
elmoMithrandir: yes but if you make a typo in debian/* we don't have to suffer another 200Mb tar.gz upload02:28
Mithrandirelmo: that's true.02:28
MithrandirKeybuk: yes, I'm sure elmo would be _extremely_ happy to have OOO sources + binaries uuencoded and then uudecoded in the rules file02:28
Kamionmmm, comprehensible diffs02:28
elmoMithrandir: don't worry, I'm sure some people would see that as less obfuscated than dpatch ;-)02:29
Kamionyou could run them through gpg with a private key shipped in the source package and ASCII-armour02:29
MithrandirKamion: don't give anybody any ideas.02:29
Mithrandirelmo: I could do that, if you want, sure. though.. the version then would be openoffice.org-amd64_1.1.12-2ubuntu4-1, a bit ugly, but certainly workable.02:29
Kamionor steghide02:29
Kamion"we hid our source package in a one-gigabyte .au file in case you found out how ugly it was"02:30
Mithrandircue joeyh's 1-mb-random-data ITP?02:30
danielspitti: umm ... try it and see? :)02:31
Keybukthe tarball is empty and the diff adds a uuencoded filesystem image which has to be decoded and loop mounted to get the source02:31
Mithrandirelmo: would openoffice.org-amd64_1.1.12-2ubuntu4-1 make you happier?02:31
pittidaniels: I don't have this graphics card :-/02:31
pittidaniels: I just wanted to know whether you happen to know sth about this issue02:32
elmoMithrandir: hmm?  what's the difference? :)02:32
KamionKeybuk: the scary thing is that the only reason that would be against policy is that it requires root to build02:32
Kamionpresumably openoffice.org-amd64_1.1.12-2ubuntu4.orig.tar.gz02:33
KinnisonOh dear02:33
elmoMithrandir: I'd prefer it to be non-native - I don't have an opinion on the version number before that02:33
Mithrandirelmo: it will be openoffice.org-amd64_1.1.12-2ubuntu4.orig.tar.gz with02:33
Mithrandirelmo: ok02:33
MithrandirI'll do that, then02:33
Kamionalthough that still means that if somebody makes a typo in debian/ in openoffice.org proper then you have to re-upload a 200MB tarball02:33
Keybuk<dsfldksfldksf@canonical.com>: mail for canonical.com loops back to myself02:33
danielspitti: i'm not sure; i have a mach64, but it's kind of dead right now. i spose i could find out on the weekend?02:33
Mithrandirwell, uploading 200MB is not a problem for _me_.. might be a problem for us, though.02:34
pittidaniels: please don't do any major work on this, I also asked branden and the submitter02:34
KamionMithrandir: my local mirror behind ADSL on which I rely to do my work is going to hate you, though ...02:34
pittidaniels: but if you want to try this, sure :-) Its tagged security, that's why I'm asking02:34
danielspitti: yeah, sure02:35
MithrandirKamion: do you have amd64 or any reason to mirror amd64 debs?02:35
MithrandirKamion: if not, just exclude it.02:35
elmohe just got amd64 :)02:35
Mithrandirook :)02:35
MithrandirKamion: if you have a decent DSL line, 200MB isn't that bad. *hides*02:36
elmowhen's v2 oo.o due btw?02:36
Mithrandirsometime in 200502:36
elmo?? really? fuck02:36
elmoI was hoping not to have to keep this beyond warty02:36
Mithrandirsomebody were talking about OOO 1.8-64-bit-clean late 2004/early 2005.02:36
elmoah, ok02:37
MithrandirI'm not sure it'll make Hoary, though.. we could do multiarch instead, which will solve this the right and nice way.02:37
Mithrandir*hides again*02:37
MithrandirI wonder if somebody has set a price on my head yet. ;)02:38
KinnisonMithrandir: about 12NOK last time I looked02:38
Kinnisons'not worth collecting on02:38
Mithrandirhmm, I either need to build ooo a bit more statically or extend ia32-libs with libstlport4.6.02:40
Keybukthat's pretty cheap for head02:42
fabbionenot too bad :-)02:42
fabbionenvidia kernel and glx are almost done02:43
Mithrandiror do ia32-libs-openoffice.org02:43
=== Mithrandir decides on that
KeybukI'd certainly pay it, I think I've got 20NOK around somewhere still from GUADEC ... you got change?02:43
MithrandirKeybuk: what do you want my head for?  It's useless without the rest of me.02:43
=== Kinnison hides
ross_bad bad bad Kinnison02:44
KamionOK, potracing worked reasonably well02:45
Kamionat least the SVG looks OK ...02:45
Kamioninkscape is rather fun02:53
pittifabbione: is the new security upload queue already operational and needs to be tested?02:56
pittifabbione: I already did some security uploads, but need to do some more02:56
fabbionepitti: i think so.. elmo and mdz are the right persons to ask02:57
pittifabbione: thanks02:58
fabbionepitti: i only did enable security in base-config/apt-setup02:58
fabbionethe archive is there02:58
fabbionei am not sure if the upload works,02:58
fabbioneneither the buildd.02:58
pittielmo: is the new security upload queue already operational and needs to be tested? I need to do some more security uploads, so if you need some test packages...02:58
elmodon't test it with real packages, they'll be thrown away02:58
elmoyou can test it if you want tho02:59
pittielmo: okay, they certainly shouldn't get eaten :-)02:59
debianistanything we have outof the box to handle iClick tiny vga cams?03:02
debianistit's HAL configured and detected ok, what app should be used against it?03:03
ross_gnome-meeting i guess for a video conference03:04
debianistross_ : lacking a video manager seemingly. should I manually apttitude one?03:08
ross_video manager?03:09
debianistross_ : on the gnomemeeting, the config druid asks for a video manager to choose.03:10
ross_i've never used it, sorry03:10
debianistross_ : has only "Picture" currently. on the side note it says Video4linux be the most common one. 03:10
ross_thats a kernel thing03:10
seb128somebody has an advice on http://bugs.debian.org/270967 ?03:11
Kamionseb128: strange interaction between rmdir and chattr I think03:13
seb128yeah. But that's a bug ?03:14
seb128I should reassign it to ... ?03:14
debianistseb128 : i'll reboot to my test ubuntu have a go at it, you say it will erease /etc ?03:14
Kamionseb128: rmdir --ignore-fail-on-non-empty ignores EEXIST03:14
Kamionseb128: but if the directory's immutable then you get EPERM instead03:14
lamontKamion: you see my email on postfix vs d-i?03:14
seb128debianist: no, will no, just display an error on purge with chattr +i /03:14
Kamionseb128: er, I'd consider it a bizarre corner case and close it, TBH, it's purely cosmetic ...03:15
Kamionlamont: don't think so, where?03:15
seb128Kamion: ok, thanks for the explanations03:15
lamontKamion: should I toss a copy somewhere else?03:15
=== Mithrandir grumbles
Kamionseb128: it'll be either coreutils or the kernel if it can be "fixed" at all03:16
Kamionlamont: when, what subject?03:16
lamontSubject: postfix and the installer03:16
lamont about 6-8 hours ago03:16
seb128Kamion: hum, perhaps I should reassign it as minor on coreutils ?03:16
lamont05:36 UTC03:16
lamontMessage-ID: <20040910053656.GA30825@mmjgroup.com>03:17
Kamionseb128: coul dbe03:17
Kamions/ d/d 03:17
seb128ok, thanks03:17
Kamionlamont: can't find anything in my mail logs at all03:18
Kamionlamont: throw it at cjwatson@canonical.com, see if that gets to me03:18
Mithrandirwhy do my packages _always_ end up having gcc source code in them?03:18
Mithrandiras in, _the_ gcc source code.03:18
=== Mithrandir sighs
MithrandirI'm sure it's a conspiracy.03:19
lamonter, that is, I bounced it to you - same date, etc.03:19
lamontelmo: damn.  Mithrandir's onto the conspiracy....03:19
Kamionlamont: uh, postfix is in Base ...03:29
lamontand crap sends email while running through */config03:29
lamontthat is, during preconfig03:29
lamontand email doesn't work until postfix is configured.03:30
lamontin part because postfix creates its user/groups in postinst...03:30
lamontand moving all of postinst into preinst just feels evil. :)03:30
KamionI'll reply by mail03:31
=== Keybuk [scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionyay, fan+thermal in the installer03:50
Kamionnice quiet box03:50
pittithom: BTW, the new pmount is in (that supports -l)03:54
pittithom: any success with that <censored> hal03:55
pittithom: ?03:55
thompitti: i've not thrown my computer out of the window yet03:56
thombut i've not really started the day yet, either03:56
thomguess i'm on nearly-american time toda03:56
pittithom: did you feel like? :-)03:57
thomyesterday, yes03:57
pittithom: throwing windows out of the computer is always a better option.03:57
thomwell, that would mean i couldn't shoot monsters :_003:58
dokofabbione: pong03:58
Keybukor watch Firefly and learn rude chinese phrases :p04:00
lamontKamion: that explains why it used to work.. :-)04:09
=== lamont ponders
Mithrandirgnome-terminal is slooow.04:25
Mithrandirit has problems keeping up with my gcc compile.04:26
pittiMithrandir: VGA console rocks04:27
Mithrandirfb is slow04:27
MithrandirI rather just detached the screen04:27
pittiMithrandir: radeonfb is fast, too, but I really mean VGA04:27
pittiMithrandir: or, switch to another console :-)04:27
Mithrandiryeah, radeonfb is ok-ish fast.04:28
pittiMithrandir: still, no terminal is fast enough to keep up with a Warthogs developer :-)04:30
Mithrandirright now, I'm waiting for gcc and shit to compile.. that takes a while, even on a P4 2.4GHz.04:30
=== StoneTable [~stone@] has joined #ubuntu
pittiI'm invited to dinner. CU later!04:31
thomhave fun04:31
pittithom: thanks, you too!04:31
Mithrandirwhat is the recommended pppoe config tool in ubuntu?04:47
diemani've used pppoeconf once at home, but that wasn't in ubuntu04:51
diemanits got a nice debconfized frontend04:51
Kamionweird, was it recently removed from warty?04:53
Kamionbecause debootstrap wants to install it04:53
Kamion(it = pppoeconf)04:53
KamionMithrandir: AIUI pppconfig knows how to configure pppoe now04:53
Mithrandirppp spits out messages about running mknod04:54
=== debianist [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu
debianistanybody saw the trash applet disappear after an upgrade?05:12
debianistcan't find it nowhere anymore05:13
=== debianist upgrading..seems trash applet on the upgrade list again. wonders.
elmowhy the heck does gnome-cups-manager only recommend gksu ?05:15
seb128oups, same here05:17
seb128jdub made changes to use gksudo05:18
elmook, I'll file a bug and assign to him05:18
seb128hum, apparently not due to the patches05:19
=== debianist [~piglet@] has joined #ubuntu
debianistnice new menu layout. how come reloggin a previous user doesn't update the menu layout? (there's need to create a new user account)05:21
seb128no way05:21
seb128what do you call "menu layout", the computer menu, or the starters and applets on the panel ?05:22
debianistcomputer menu05:34
debianistapplications did not change05:34
debianistseb128 : any idea why a new account must be created to witness the changes?05:35
ross_doesn't sound possible to me, assuming you've added the main menu applet to the panel (there by default)05:35
seb128debianist: as said before, no way, killing the panel is enough to get the changes05:39
=== pdr [~pdr@] has joined #ubuntu
debianistseb128 : k05:51
debianistseb128 : i have logged in and out several times, and nothing changed05:52
seb128debianist: which version of gnome-panel ?05:53
debianistseb128 : Gnome gnome-panel
seb128dpkg -l gnome-panel05:55
seb128I know which upstream version is in warty05:55
debianistii  gnome-panel Launch and/or dock GNOME 2 applications05:55
seb128COLUMNS=150 dpkg -l gnome-panel05:56
seb128ok, screenshot of the computer menu open after a killall gnome-panel please :)06:00
=== glyph is away: LUNCHTIME
debianistseb128 : in about 15 miuntes..ok?06:00
seb128no problem06:03
seb128mdz: around ?06:09
mdzseb128: yes06:09
seb128we have -7, that's -8 (current in debian)06:09
seb128I need to upload to add the mime type handling06:09
seb128do you think we should take -8 ?06:10
mdzseb128: ok06:15
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-131-015.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== pdr [~pdr@] has left #ubuntu []
=== Kinnison [~dsilvers@haddenham.pepperfish.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-37-23.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
=== thom takes a large mallet and beats hal
=== kagou [~kagou@AMontpellier-251-1-25-52.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
=== ik5pvx [bofh@] has joined #ubuntu
mdzKamion: is the install CD splash image final?  it looks a bit odd07:05
Kamionmdz: the weird black and white one?07:07
Kamionor the colour one?07:08
=== lamont__ [~lamont@mesaradio41.customer.frii.net] has joined #ubuntu
mdzKamion: black and white07:08
mdzKamion: also, I seem to be running into the same problem jdub was, where cdrom-detect fails and it ends up with "Failed getting Release file /cdrom/dists//Release"07:09
Kamionmdz: I did a lot of SVG hacking earlier today to try and improve it, it's less bad now07:09
Kamionmdz: but it still looks pretty toytown07:09
Kamionmdz: what does 'debconf-get cdrom-detect/cdrom_hdparm' say?07:09
mdzKamion: -c307:10
Kamionmdz: rsync a new image, I built one middle of today07:11
Kamionmdz: it can take a while for changes to propagate from the archive to initrd07:11
mdzthis would be the daily from 0800 today07:11
Kamionbecause there has to be a daily-installer-* build first and elmo has to byhand that, and the CD daily builds happen before elmo normally gets up07:11
mdzI'll get the new one07:11
Kamionmdz: I'm making a few changes to the way I handle debootstrap, to make it automatically generate nearly everything from germinate output (it only looked at i386 beforehand)07:18
Kamionmdz: I notice that hfsplus, hfsutils, and libhfsp0 are technically in Base on all architectures, even though we really only care about them on powerpc07:18
Kamion(since they're available in the archive on all architectures)07:19
Kamionmdz: do you want me to come up with a way to override those out of Base on amd64/i386, or should they just be left there?07:19
Kamionmdz: I also want to take the bootloaders out of the list that debootstrap installs; that's becoming established practice in Debian, since if you use expert mode and opt to install lilo then you don't want the grub package installed, and on some subarchitectures having the wrong bootloader package installed can actually be harmful07:24
Kamiond-i is already capable of installing the bootloader packages on-demand itself07:25
mdzKamion: if it's simpler, I don't mind them being in base on all architectures07:29
mdzKamion: eek07:29
mdzLoading 07:30
mdzInvalid or corrupt kernel image07:30
Kamionworks for me?07:30
Kamionbad burn maybe07:30
Kamionlet me see how difficult an override would be07:30
mdzlooks fine when I mount it07:31
mdz9a68e53af1ea1f411f5e63b712def20a  install/vmlinuz07:31
Kamion90f938370f70927f3996da63f89462c2  /mnt/install/vmlinuz07:33
mdzno errors07:33
Kamionthat's just loop-mounted, and rsync thinks it's accurate07:34
mdzyeah, I get that from my loop-mounted image, too07:34
Kamionanyway, got to go for a bit07:37
=== thom sighs at hal.
lamont2sigh.  I need to find a better coffee shop.07:41
thomi'm sending the callback for the device removal as soon as i know what the device is, but by the time gvm responds to that, the data is still gone07:41
thomwhich is, i guess, why they try to do the umount in hal, since the scheduling is just broken07:42
mdzKamion: ah, nice colour logo now07:47
lamont2mdz: re 1126 - it's either Depend procmail, or have postfix deal with mailbox_command failing..  I'm inclined to go with Depending, but don't really want to do that to Debian.07:48
mdzlamont2: #1126 is a Warty bug; just needs to be fixed in Warty07:49
lamont2mdz: yeah07:49
thommdz: we might have to allow hal to pumount things that gvm mounts, at least for warty07:49
lamont2that grumbling is just me wearing my debian maintainers hat. :-(07:50
lamont2kicking and screaming on the way to make the change, as it were.07:50
=== ddaa [~david@nemesis.xlii.org] has left #ubuntu ["Client]
mdzlamont2: what about this linux-kernel-di vs. linux-image vs. mkinitrd issue?08:06
lamont2was just firing up windows to go check on that.  Most likely situation is the damn kernel image's refusal to remove non-interactively.08:07
diemando you guys have i915 support in xf86?08:09
mdzlamont2: you were...uh...what?08:09
mdzdieman: that's a question for daniels or fabbione, not sure08:09
lamont2er, xterm windows..08:10
diemanim going to login to my ubuntu box at home and check the changelog08:10
diemanxf86 has it, but i dont know if x.org picked it up08:10
lamont2/var/lib/dpkg/info/initrd-tools.postrm: line 7: update-modules: command not found08:10
diemanand if they backported it08:10
mdzlamont2: ah :-)08:10
lamont2we have a winner...08:10
mdzlamont2: so initrd-tools needs depends: module-init-tools | modutils?08:10
=== lamont2 will add that
lamont2utf8 "\xF6" does not map to Unicode at /usr/bin/dch line 612, <S> chunk 1.08:13
lamont2ain't utf 8 terminals/locales fun?08:13
Keybuk\xC3\xB6 :-)08:17
lamont2initrd-tools and postfix uploaded08:18
lamont2mdz: retried linux-kernel-di-i386, will check the rest of the buildd's chroots when I get home. :-(08:20
mdzlamont2: oh, you are not at home?08:21
lamont2if dpkg selection is set to purge (but the package is installed), will apt-get upgrade actually upgrade the package?08:22
lamont2down in town fetching sounder 808:22
lamont2and waiting for my wife to come back with the car.. :-)08:22
lamont2I _could_ do it now, but it's easier to just watch the build logs and deal as needed...08:22
lamont2sitting at the nice coffee shop08:23
lamont2regrettably, so is about half of the college.08:25
mdzlamont2: apt does not pay attention to the dselect selections unless you use dselect-upgrade08:27
lamont2next automatic upgrade will fix the rest of the chroots then, 0200-ish UK time08:31
lamont2amusingly, the apt-get -udy upgrade isn't noticibly slowing down the rsync.  very interesting.08:32
mdzmaybe they rate-limit on a per-connection basis08:32
lamont2(same host both ends..)08:32
lamont2must be, but that's new if true08:32
lamont2both are completely I/O bound (cpu is ~0% busy)08:33
mdzdaniels: PING08:35
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont2 makes a note to verify initrd-tools on debian and file a bug w/patch later as well. on to elfutils again
mdzlamont2: I hate to pull you away, but you have 3 RC bugs which need your love08:37
mdzand we release our preview in 5 days08:37
=== lamont2 loves the bugs
mdzseb128: ping?08:44
lamont2mdz: 1115 - main has no references to libmysqlclient12 (outside of that source package, which could possibly move to universe??)  would you like the bug closed or downgraded? (universe is still thuroughly b0rked, of course...)08:47
elmogerminate disagrees08:48
lamont2elmo: germinate is probably right then..08:48
lamont2apt-cache showpkg should show everythign in the cache, no?08:49
lamont2what does germinate list, I wonder?08:49
=== lamont2 uploaded redland and one other last night
elmomysql-client deps on libmysql1208:49
elmowe want that in main08:49
elmo(not that it's relevant to the bug, of course, I'm just talking about the "move to universe" thing)08:50
elmomdz: we're dropping ttf-bangla?08:50
lamont2sigh.  thought that one came from the other08:50
mdzelmo: yes08:50
lamont2elmo: actually, it is semi relavant to the bug - I need to uload mysql-client as well08:50
mdzelmo: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=76908:50
mdzlamont2: why do you need to upload mysql?08:51
=== lamont2 applies clue-factor.
lamont2mysql-client is thename of the source ackage that delivers libmysqlclient1208:51
=== lamont2 went through this yesterday evening too.
lamont2anyway, wife almost here, heading home from there, and then back online08:52
elmokamion: anastacia wants to remove *-di... guess the seeds need some love?08:52
lamont2scrollback is intact at the house, it appears, will read when I get there.08:52
dokomdz: are the DSA available in some other form than on www.debian.org/security?08:53
mdzmysql-client is a binary package08:53
mdzbuilt by mysql-dfsg08:53
mdzdoko: they are in webwml CVS, an RSS feed, in the mailing list archives, etc.08:53
lamont2mdz: so do you want 1115 updated to reflect that just universe is borked (still open), or closed not-warty?08:54
mdzlamont2: I want for everything in main besides mysql itself to be built with libmysqlclient10; is that done?08:54
lamont2universe remains, and will continue to remain.08:55
lamont2but then, universe isn't in the bts, is it..08:55
mdzfor the next 5 days, I encourage all of you to forget that universe exists at all08:55
mdzthat is all08:55
lamont2which really means 'fixed', not 'notwarty'08:55
=== lamont2 heads home -back online in about 30
=== whiprush [whiprush@thorin.battleaxe.net] has joined #ubuntu
danielsfmdzpong, saw your bug09:08
danielsmdz: that09:08
danielsmdz: looking at cdrtools, i think the only real solution is to take 2.01a37 for now, possibly fork; im trying to contact other distro cdrtools maintainers about it09:08
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
mdzdaniels: what about 1056/1057?09:12
tvondid the network go away in the comptuer vfs view?09:13
tvonnm, found it in the menu09:13
elmogar, why does postfix now depend on procmail?09:13
mdztvon: yes, it did, and that's where it went :-)09:14
mdzelmo: because it wants to do local mail delivery09:14
mdzwith procmail09:14
elmoand that makes sense security wise?09:15
danielsmdz: you told me not to work on scalable-cyrfonts, and i don't have any way to test the pfaedit stuff other than scalable-cyrfonts; doing a simple script, as i said, failed, and the only way i had to test it was through scalable-cyrfonts (seemingly the only package affected), which is in universe ...09:15
mdzhmm, I thought procmail was already in base09:16
mdzdaniels: so your resolution was to just leave the bugs open and do nothing?09:16
danielsmdz: i'm working on other bugs. would you like me to close 1056 NOTWARTY, and add a note to 1057 that i'm working on other stuff which actually affects warty?09:18
mdzdaniels: if 1056 is a bug in a package that is not in main, then yes, it should be closed notwarty09:19
mdzdaniels: if 1057 is a bug in warty, but only affects packages in universe, then it can be downgraded09:19
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu
=== lamont makes it home
lamontelmo: was procmail not already base?09:23
lamontmdz: procmail is desktop, not base09:25
mdzlamont: yes, I see that now09:26
mdzin which case, it doesn't seem appropriate for postfix to depend on it after all09:26
=== lamont considers making postfix "just work" when the mailbox command isn't there.
mdzI seem to recall we discussed this some time ago09:27
mdzand you said that postfix could deliver mail to the spool without any external programs09:27
mdzwhich is why we don't need procmail in base09:27
lamonttrue.  But if you tell it to use procmail, then procmail has to be there.. (at least right now...)  Probably warrants at least a warning from local if it's not there...09:29
mdzlet's not tell it to use procmail, then09:32
mdzit's trivial for users who want procmail to put it in ~/.forward09:32
mdzI don't see any reason why local delivery shouldn't work out of the box09:32
mdzand if it did, that would address all of those errors from maintainer scripts/debconf09:33
mdz(outside of base, anyway)09:33
lamontwhich basically means reverse the change I just did, eh?09:33
lamontthe other option (which I think might vioate policy) would be to add a procmail question 'should I tell postfix to use procmail?' in the event that it finds postfix is the mta...09:35
lamontbut that's too much work for today.09:36
Mithrandirlamont: what would happen then if you first install postfix, then procmail?09:39
lamontMithrandir: that's the situation we have: mailbox_command is not set, unless you then dpkg-reconfigure postfix, or postconf -e it yourself09:40
elmothis all seems a bit OTT to me - why can't the (minority? of) people who want to use procmail as the LDA configure postfix manually09:40
lamontelmo: that's where I'm taking it.09:40
=== lamont closes #1126 WONTFIX
elmobugzilla does the most bizarre DWIM things09:43
elmoI responded to that gnome-cups-manager and after I clicked on 'commit' it dumped me into some other random bug09:44
lamontelmo: it dumped you into the next bug in the list that you had fetched.09:44
fabbionemdz: ping09:44
[Clint] yeah, that annoys me too09:44
elmolamont: dude, I didn't fetach a list - I clicked on a link in the freaking mail it sent me09:45
thomyeah, it's awful09:45
lamonter, maybe the last list you fetched (3 weeks ago, even??) dunno09:45
mdzfabbione: pong09:45
lamontmaybe it just wants you to have the opportunity to close another one?09:45
mdzfabbione: what do I need to do in order to debug this: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=114309:46
lamontmdz: down the road, I think the solution is to have procmail do something in _its_ postinstall to cause it to become the lda.09:46
fabbionemdz: let me check.. i just come back09:46
elmomdz: is the add-yourself-to-random groups going to be in the woody upgrade notes or something?09:46
Mithrandirlamont: I think it then gives you the next bug in your bug list or something09:46
mdzlamont: yes, but for now, it should be sufficient to have postfix be non-broken09:46
mdzelmo: something like that09:46
mdzfabbione: thanks09:46
lamontmdz: 1126 is not about postfix being broken.  and the others are about people trying to send mail before the MTA is configured.09:47
fabbionemdz: did you do the usual test? or just a reinstall of the server?09:47
mdzlamont: ok, so 1126 is in fact a feature request for procmail by default?09:48
mdzlamont: which we aren't going to do, for warty at least09:48
=== Mithrandir begins hating ia32-libs-openoffice.org
mdzlamont: ok09:48
lamontand will (eventually) be fixed in procmail, not postfix.09:48
mdzfabbione: I did a fresh install from today's daily09:48
mdzfabbione: 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu1509:48
fabbionemdz: ok i need you to play a bit09:48
fabbionemdz: you need to stick a set -x in postinst and do a clean install of the package09:49
mdzfabbione: what is the best way to get it installed with set -x in postinst?09:50
mdzusers need to be able to debug this with us09:50
=== lamont looks at the other postfix bugs
fabbionemdz: it's not an easy thing09:50
fabbionemdz: dpkg -e xserver-xfree86_blabla09:51
fabbionemdz: dpkg -x xserver-xfree86_blabla .09:51
fabbionemdz: vi DEBIAN/postinst09:51
fabbionemdz: dpkg-deb -b . xserver-xfree86_blabla09:51
mdzfabbione: and this is what we must instruct users to do when X autodetection doesn't work??09:51
Mithrandiroh well, ia32-libs-source will just be some 60-70-80MB, it semms.09:51
Mithrandirseems, even09:51
=== Mithrandir sighs
fabbionemdz: no. that's to understand why xresprobe doesn't work for you09:52
fabbionemdz: it is clearly a stupid bug somewhere09:52
fabbionemdz: either xresprobe is adding a space somewhere09:53
fabbioneor the postinst is loosing the value somewhere09:53
fabbioneso it's a bug you fix once.. and that's it09:53
fabbionealso if autodetection fails there is the fallback09:53
mdzfabbione: ok, I have the output, where do you want it?09:53
fabbionemdz: anywhere.. web.. mail09:54
fabbionemdz: i wanted to talk to you for other stuff09:54
fabbionemdz: nvidia drivers..09:54
fabbionemdz: i got the kernel module into linux-restricted-09:54
lamonthrm... need sounder 8...09:54
fabbionemdz: from the same sources we also build the nvidia-glx (X binary driver)09:54
fabbionemdz: but we will need to import other 2 packages09:54
fabbionemdz: nvidia-kernel-common that i will need to upload as new (it needs a little ubuntu1 change)09:55
fabbionemdz: and nvidia-settings09:55
fabbionethe latest 2 packages are in contrib09:55
fabbioneelmo suggested to stick them in restricted and I agree with him09:56
fabbionesince they depends/reccomends/suggets restricted/non-free packages09:56
fabbionei only miss the last bits that i will complete right now09:56
fabbionethe package was more messy than expected09:56
fabbionemdz: on the other side i killed one build layer, so that it will make easier to do security updates09:57
mdzfabbione: which one?09:57
mdz(which layer, I mean)09:57
fabbionemdz: nvidia-graphics-driver (source) -> nvidia-glx{,-dev} and nvidia-kernel-source09:57
fabbionemdz: nvidia-modules-i386 build-dep on nvidia-kernel-source09:58
fabbione-> all the modules for the kernels09:58
fabbionei killed the nvidia-kernel-source09:58
fabbionenow everything comes out from one package09:58
mdzdoes imlib2 need to be in main?09:59
fabbioneincluding the nvidia-kernel-source (last bit that i need to finish) for people that rolls out custom kernels09:59
mdzlibcaca build-depends on libimlib2-dev09:59
mdzhowever, nothing depends on libimlib209:59
mdzso either something is statically linking it09:59
mdzor we don't need it09:59
elmoit'll be statically linking10:00
elmolibcaca doesn't provide a shared library10:00
fabbionemdz: does it sound ok for you?10:00
mdzthat is fucked10:00
mdzfabbione: yes10:00
fabbionemdz: before i push everything in the archive?10:00
fabbionemdz: ok goody10:00
elmomdz: more or less than libgal20423?10:00
mdzelmo: does libgal statically link too?10:01
elmono, someone managed to convince upstream to stop changing the ABI instead10:01
elmobut sam's pretty clueful, he tends to only do the static-only thing for fast moving, still-in-development and not-1.0-yet libs10:02
fabbionemdz: did you get asked for the question about modes?10:05
fabbionemdz: right?=10:05
mdzfabbione: correct10:05
mdzduring the install from CD10:06
fabbionemdz: yes.. i can see.. i think there are 2 bugs there.. 10:06
lamontmdz: cyrus-sasl2_2.1.19-1.1 includes security fixes... :-(10:06
fabbionemdz: one is that when it detects the resoltuion the priority is not lowered (reason why you see the question) and another one seems to be a missing db_get (again)10:07
fabbionemdz: but i will check it after the nvidia stuff10:07
fabbionei want to close this package10:07
mdzfabbione: it was working for me in Oxford, but my past few installs have not worked10:08
mdzin that they asked the mode question10:09
fabbionemdz: yup.. i got it10:09
mdzfabbione: when I install my hacked .deb, it doesn't ask me the mode question, though10:09
mdzit only happened when I installed fro mCD10:09
mdzand no, I do not want to burn a CD with set -x and reinstall :-)10:09
fabbionemdz: don't worry :-)10:10
fabbionei am not going to ask you to do that10:11
fabbionemdz: ah... so if you purge and reinstall the server from the net it works???10:11
fabbioneor from a local archive=10:11
mdzfabbione: I followed your instructions, and it only asked me for the keyboard layout10:12
=== fabbione scratches his head
mdzI can do a reinstall from the same CD if it would help10:12
fabbionei am thinking....10:12
fabbionejust a sec...10:12
fabbionei need to picture...10:12
=== fabbione puts away nvidia packages...
fabbionedoes installing from CD stick anything strange in the environment?10:16
fabbionelike a $2 on installing the package?10:16
dokofabbione: you wanted to hand me over the kernel-restricted package?10:16
fabbionedoko: not yet sorry.. i was searching for you for a bash/make question.. but i found an answer already10:17
fabbionemdz: question.. when you install as i explained in the mail, do you notice the screen flashing?10:19
fabbionemdz: like when you run X -probeonly or something10:20
thommdz: any comment on what we do about umounting?10:20
lamontmdz: only signficant diff on the db4.2/cyrus-sasl2 front is that debian has a versioned b-d on libdb4,2, and we don't.  Will update10:21
fabbionedpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us10:30
fabbionedh_testroot: You must run this as root (or use fakeroot).10:30
fabbioneand i am not in build: target10:30
lamontfabbione: anything messing with LD_PRELOAD?10:30
mdzfabbione: yes, xresprobe runs and the screen flashes10:31
fabbionei just opened a clean shell...10:31
fabbionemdz: does the same when installing from CD?10:31
mdzthom: can we have hal call pumount in place of umount?10:31
mdzlamont: ok10:31
fabbionelamont: nope.. the same code in another package work10:33
fabbioneTHIS IS SO ANNOYING10:34
thommdz: yes, but doesn't that give us the problem that it's the wrong uid?10:34
thommdz: last i spoke to martin, pumount wouldn't unmount unless the uid of the running process is the same as the uid of the mount10:35
mdzthom: the current pumount should not have that problem10:35
thomok, great10:35
=== seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-16-34.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
lamontmdz: have you read the changelog from cyrus-sasl2_2.1.19-1.1?10:36
=== lamont files a warty bug
fabbionelamont: what would you sugget to debug that problem10:36
seb128_mdz: pong10:37
mdzlamont: yes, and I don't see any security fixes in it10:37
mdzlamont: only in 2.1.19-110:37
lamontwe could take 2.1.19-1...10:37
mdzseb128_: I forget :-/10:38
seb128_ok :)10:38
mdzlamont: 2.1.19-1.1 looks OK10:38
lamontwant I should ask for a sync?10:38
mdzseb128_: oh, I think it was about the PATH10:39
mdzseb128_: does any part of gnome or gdm set PATH for the user?10:39
mdzseb128_: I want to know how to change the path that the user gets when they open gnome-terminal10:39
mdzwhich is a non-login shell by default10:40
=== tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu
seb128_mdz: /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf:DefaultPath=/...10:40
mdzseb128_: thanks, are you planning a gdm upload soon?10:42
mdzif not, I will upload it to add sbin10:42
seb128_no upload planned for the moment10:42
lamontmdz: when is the freeze for <RC bugs?10:42
mdzlamont: https://wiki.no-name-yet.com/PreviewFreeze10:43
mdzseb128: debian seems to have a new upstream10:44
seb128yes, we want to sync it at this point ?10:44
seb128I was not sure10:44
seb128mdz: hum, since it's a part of the GNOME desktop ... will look to sync it tomorrow. You want /sbin in the DefaultPath ?10:45
mdzseb128: yes, just set DefaultPath to the same as RootPath please10:45
mdzseb128: do you want a bug to remind you?10:45
seb128no, that's fine, I've added it to my todo list10:46
thomargh. the other issue we may have is that gnome-volume-manager kills itself if hal gets stopped10:47
MithrandirKeybuk: how hot does your lappy get?10:47
Mithrandirthom: oh, so that's what kills it sometimes on my desktop..10:47
lamontmdz: of course, you have to look at /WartyWarthog to get the date.  I'm assuming that the schedule means that PreviewFreeze started sept 6.10:48
mdzlamont: yes, we are in previewfreeze except where explicitly overridden from higher up10:49
lamontmdz: will FinalFreeze be done purely administratively (slapping heads of offenders), or will the source-insertion acquire a manual flavor?10:49
mdzlamont: I hope that we can do it without brute force10:50
KeybukMithrandir: depends10:50
lamontHrm... FeatureFreeze page references FeatureGoals, which is not there.. :-(10:51
Keybukit keeps itself comfortable for having on the lap with just boxers usually10:51
MithrandirKeybuk: ok10:51
Keybukthere's enough redundant fans to kick in when it warms up that it doesn't burn10:51
Keybukunless thom doesn't make the thermal module load, then bad things happen10:51
MithrandirKeybuk: the nc4010 is about 10kNOK cheaper than a fully-loaded x40, so I'm considering it instead.10:51
lamontKeybuk: you find that depends provides sufficient insulation above and beyond boxers,eh?10:51
Keybukthe nc4010 is also rather higher spec than the X4010:52
Mithrandirhow so?10:52
Keybuk1.7Ghz 2GB RAM max vs. 1.2 Ghz 1GB RAM max10:52
Mithrandirehm, the x40 has 1.5GB max RAM10:52
Mithrandirand you can't compare the cpus directly either, one is LV, the other is not.10:53
thomlow voltage10:53
Mithrandirlow voltage10:53
Keybukthey're both P-M10:53
Mithrandir(and CPU speed isn't too important to me, but that's me)10:53
Keybuksame series from what I recall10:53
Keybukthe X40 is a little smaller and lighter though, and has the upper hand on battery life10:54
mdzlamont: FeatureGoals never existed10:55
Mithrandirthe price I got from HPs web site was sans VAT, that evened them out a bit10:55
Mithrandirbut the nc4010 still has the upper hand. :/10:55
KeybukI like them both10:55
Keybukit was the lack of the touchpad on the X40 that swung it for me10:56
=== Keybuk can't live without one
mdzI have a touchpad I never use10:56
MithrandirI dislike touchpads, so that's ok10:56
thomi used to think i couldn't live without a touchpad. but i'm very happy with the X4010:57
Keybukthom: I broke my fingers as a kid, and they never properly healed, so the pressure needed for the nipple just hurts after a while :-(10:57
KeybukMithrandir: just don't get the Dell or Apple <g>10:58
MithrandirKeybuk: don't even _mention_ dell.  I will not, ever, ever, ever buy anything from them.10:59
KeybukI still like the old LS, but it was the only decent laptop they ever made10:59
Mithrandirapple is nice, but the missing support for airport extreme and the lack of mouse buttons counts against it10:59
Keybukand the lack of pcmcia ?10:59
Mithrandirwhy is that a big issue?  I mostly use pcmcia for my wlan card. :P11:00
Keybukyeah, but with no working internal wifi, you're left a bit stuck <g>11:00
Mithrandirthom: the x40 also has three mouse buttons, don't it?11:01
Keybukyeah, the nc4010 has an irritating 411:01
Keybukit would've been better if they'd stuck a third in the middle rather than two11:02
Keybukonly IBM seem to "get" the whole 3-mouse thing at the moment11:02
Mithrandirdo the four on the nc4010 appear as distinct buttons to X?11:03
thommdz: hal@fandango:/$ pumount -l /dev/sdb111:03
thomError: device /dev/sdb1 was not mounted by you11:03
Keybuktwo on the touchpad, two on the stick (which appear as seperate devices)11:03
mdzthom: pmount 1.0-1?11:04
mdzthom: mail martin about it; I think he was supposed to have removed that11:05
MithrandirKeybuk: have you gotten suspend and such to work properly or is it still fucked?11:05
thomyeah, will do11:05
fabbionemdz: did you read my question before? do you see the same screen swtiching while installing from CD?11:05
mdzfabbione: I don't know11:05
Keybukstill broken somewhere11:05
Mithrandirthat kinda sucks.11:05
fabbionemdz: you can investigate that without using a -x in xserver-xfree86.. mind to check?11:06
Keybukthe consensus was that it was the Radeon causing the problems, but the new reset patches didn't help either :-(11:06
mdzfabbione: ok, I will start another reinstall11:06
fabbionemdz: it will make the thing much easier11:06
fabbionemdz: thanks11:06
Keybukit suspends fine, S3 resume doesn't work though (S4 does)11:06
fabbionemdz: if it does not flip screen, yell at xresprobe :-)11:06
mdzfabbione: xresprobe works fine when I run it manually11:06
thomright, it works with that fix11:06
Keybukthe ACPI support is otherwise flawless (you can do things like echo on >/proc/acpi/fan/FAN2/state and stuff)11:07
mdzand when I did this test with you11:07
=== ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu
MithrandirKeybuk: what radeon does it have?11:07
Mithrandirwhat does that translate to, model-number-wise?11:07
Mithrandirthom: and what kind of gfx card is on the x40?11:07
MithrandirI wonder why vendors don't give out such info in the specs. :/11:08
Keybukno idea, that's the model number11:08
fabbionemdz: it is kinda of chicken egg problem.11:08
mdznpmccallum: how are you doing on your bugs and the init script changes?11:08
thomMithrandir: ^11:09
fabbionemdz: xresprobe needs X and viceversa. it is true that xresprobe is installed, but it might be that X calls it too soon during a full clean installation and it fails on laptops11:09
fabbionemdz: since on laptops it has to execute X to detect the panel size...11:09
Mithrandirthom: ook.  3d-wise sucks, or?11:09
thomMithrandir: no idea11:09
mdzfabbione: can you think of any other way to test this other than a complete reinstall?11:09
mdzfabbione: not only does this take some time, but if I am not staring at the screen the whole time, it is easy to miss whether or not there is a mode change11:10
thomMithrandir: i think it's not horrible but not great either11:10
fabbionemdz: not really..... if it works in console and not on CD i am not sure how to check it...11:10
fabbionemdz: i don't have a laptop to scratch right now11:11
Mithrandirthom: ok, that's good enough for me.  Would be nice to be able to play some games, but I don't need D3 support.11:11
fabbionemdz: so someone has to do it for me11:11
Keybuk3D isn't really a laptop feature11:11
thomesp when the laptop has no cd and a 12" screem11:11
Mithrandirthom: 12" is plenty. :)11:11
MithrandirI still have good eyesight on my one good eye.11:11
mdzfabbione: another difference is that X is already running when I test post-install11:11
fabbionemdz: please can you test it exactly like i posted it?11:12
fabbionemdz: with no X running.. nothing.. from pure console?11:12
Mithrandir*sigh*, gcc-3.4 has at least gotten to running the test suite..11:12
fabbionemdz: each time you add or change something might give different results and/or another variable to take into account11:13
Keybukaye, I find 12" about right11:13
mdzfabbione: there are a huge number of variables11:13
fabbionemdz: installing from console witu no X runnig should be like installing from CD11:13
mdzfabbione: whether or not X has started since boot, what mode the text console is in, etc.11:13
mdzthere are many differences11:13
mdzanyway I will shut down X and try it11:13
fabbionemdz: that's why if we can try to keep them down to minimum it will be easier11:13
mdzbut this worked during Oxford!11:13
mdzin all situations I tried11:14
mdzit is not something weird with whether X is running or not11:14
fabbionemdz: there have tons of changes since Oxfords11:14
fabbionewe fixed a shit load of bugs11:14
mdzmdz@potpal ~ $ sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop11:14
mdz * Stopping GNOME Display Manager...                                     [ ok ] 11:14
mdzmdz@potpal ~ $ sudo xresprobe ati11:14
mdzid: 11:14
mdzres: 1024x76811:14
mdzfreq: 11:14
fabbionenothing can guarantee that i didn't introduce another one11:14
mdzmdz@potpal ~ $ 11:14
mdzso now I will proceed with the reinstall11:15
=== lamont wanders off to download sounder 8
=== lamont pounds his head on the table
mdzlamont: I thought you downloaded sounder 8 at the cafe earlier today?11:27
mdzlamont: the current daily is better11:27
thommdz: what do we do about #986 ? we have that version of the package, but i can't see a valid reproduction recipe, nor do i know any thing about fonts11:28
lamontwill grab current daily then.,11:28
lamontI grabbed about 60% of it before my wife got back - damn college kids sucking up bandwidth anyway.11:28
lamontgonna drive down the road about 3 miles to a friends driveway and download it from inside the comfort of my car.11:29
lamont(yes, with permission)11:29
lamont_he_ has dsl, the bastards.11:29
lamontof course, it'll take me a few minutes to actually get out of the house.11:29
=== fabbione shit! raid failure!
mdzthom: I can't seem to reproduce it, but I don't have a postscript printer and the comments are pretty convincing11:33
mdzthom: it was introduced by the fix for another bug11:33
mdzmaybe we should back it out, since this seems worse11:33
mdzlamont: dsl 3 miles away, but none for you, eh?11:33
Mithrandirlamont: why is initrd-tools marked not-for-us on amd6?  Or am I misreading my mail?11:35

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!