debianistjustdave : what does a -N means next to a deb package number?01:11
debianistjustdave : as in  version 1.2.5-8 for libpng3?01:11
justdaveno clue01:13
justdaveoh, wait...01:13
justdaveyou mean like the -8 in your example?01:13
debianistjustdave : yep01:13
justdavethe number to the left of the - is the upstream version number01:14
justdavethe number on the right of it is usually how many times it's been rebuilt with additional fixes by Debian01:14
debianistjustdave : i have  fixed in version 1.0.12-7 for libpng and in version 1.2.5-8 for libpng3,01:14
debianistjustdave : however warty is Version:
justdavenot sure on that one.01:16
justdavecould ask whoever packaged it for warty01:16
justdavemdz or jdub would probably know, too01:17
mdzdebianist: check the changelog01:17
debianistmdz : checked it01:17
debianistmdz : rechecking..01:17
mdzdebianist: Debian and Warty have the same version of libpng301:21
mdzdebianist: and if you read the changelog, it lists the security fixes made in
debianistmdz : right, i can see anywahere the changlog  CAN-2002-1363.01:25
seb128mdz: here ?01:25
debianistmdz : that is, i can't see..01:26
debianistmdz : which is in DSA-213-101:26
mdzseb128: in and out01:34
seb128mdz: ok, just a quick question. I need to update gnumeric to register it in the mime system ... wondering if I should sync with the debian package01:35
seb128mdz: we have -1: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gnumeric/gnumeric_1.2.13-4/changelog01:35
seb128mdz: JHM mainly fixed some bugs and backported translation from CVS for sarge ... usually he does a good job, what do you think ?01:36
mdzdebianist: if you search the changelog for, you find 1.2.5-801:36
mdz1.2.5-8 <
mdzseb128: I do not see any fixes in there that seem release-critical, so I do not think we should sync01:41
seb128mdz: BTW I've updated gdm for the path but not to the new version, we have an with changes in the .diff.gz ... not easy to update to
jdubmdz: having played with bluetooth stuff now, i'm pretty concerned with having bluez-utils installed by default on the desktop01:45
jdubmdz: it goes against our 'no listening' policy01:45
jdubmdz: can i shift the bluetooth packages out into supported?01:46
=== jdub would consider this a major bug
debianistmdz : still can't find CAN/DSA reference on the changelog for that specific secbug, nor on the bugtrails, any idea why?01:47
mdzdebianist: usually there is not a specific reference in the changelog01:53
mdzdebianist: sometimes because the unstable package is released before the DSA01:53
mdzdebianist: often because the maintainer just doesn't do it; it's not required01:53
mdzjdub: what did you discover in playing with it?01:54
jdubmdz: listening by default, pin=1234, etc. we should just not have those daemons running for warty.01:54
jdubmdz: they are not user-controllable, etc.01:55
mdzjdub: ->supported is OK with me01:55
mdzjdub: my only real concern was for people with bluetooth keyboards and such01:55
jdubmmm, i think we could safely dodge that until hoary01:56
jdubi'll put it on the hoary page though01:56
lifelessdaniels: if I take a screen shot, the screen shots of menus are fuxored but the rest is ok. ubuntu-something.01:57
HrdwrBoBis the lack of /dev/dsp and the defaulting of gstreamer to OSS a known thing?02:30
jdubHrdwrBoB: well, oss emulation is *meant* to be there by default02:34
debianistHrdwrBoB : i had that problem also.02:34
jdubHrdwrBoB: a few people have mentioned that it wasn't on their installs02:34
HrdwrBoBOSS emulation is present02:34
HrdwrBoBjust /dev/dsp doesn't exist02:34
HrdwrBoBand if we're using alsa, why is gstreamer set to OSS?02:34
debianistmy latest install i had the same problem, something i did (or didn't) fixed it. wasn't paying attention so i don't remember what it was.02:35
jdubHrdwrBoB: we're using alsa but with oss emulation (it tends to be more stable than current attempts to use alsa directly)02:37
HrdwrBoB/dev/dsp still doesn't exist, but I changed gstreamer to use alsa02:37
jdub/dev/dsp is meant to exist if the oss pcm emulation thingy is loaded02:38
HrdwrBoBhm, actually, oss emulation doesn't seem to be loaded02:38
HrdwrBoBthis PC has onboard ac97 crap and an SB live02:39
debianistHrdwrBoB : same here. could the 2 sound cards config be the trigger?02:39
HrdwrBoBthat's what I'm thinking02:39
mdzHrdwrBoB: snd-pcm-oss is loaded?02:45
HrdwrBoBsnd_emu10k1            80776  302:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_rawmidi            23232  1 snd_emu10k102:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_pcm                85540  2 snd_emu10k102:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_timer              23172  1 snd_pcm02:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_seq_device          7944  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi02:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_ac97_codec         59268  1 snd_emu10k102:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_page_alloc         11144  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_pcm02:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_util_mem            4608  1 snd_emu10k102:46
HrdwrBoBsnd_hwdep               9120  1 snd_emu10k102:46
HrdwrBoBsnd                    50660  13 snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_seq_device,snd_ac97_codec,snd_util_mem,snd_hwdep02:46
HrdwrBoBsoundcore               9824  1 snd02:46
mdzthen you don't have OSS emulation02:47
mdzwhich is why /dev/dsp doesn't exist02:47
mdzmodprobe snd-pcm-oss should get it going02:47
HrdwrBoBI know that, but it's not really the point :)02:47
mdzyes, there is a bug if it is not being loaded automatically02:48
mdzbut you did say that it was present02:48
HrdwrBoB<HrdwrBoB> hm, actually, oss emulation doesn't seem to be loaded02:48
HrdwrBoBcorrected myself02:48
mdzah, I see02:48
HrdwrBoBfile a bug against d-i ?02:49
mdzI'm already filing one02:50
mdznot d-i; it's not entirely clear where it should happen at this point02:50
mdzprobably alsa-base02:50
HrdwrBoBok cool02:50
debianisti'm off to bed.03:18
debianistnighters all03:19
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danielslifeless: bizzare04:11
lifelesswould an example help? 04:15
lifelessremember i have weirdness here:04:15
lifelessgl is bust (not using the hardware driver), ati prop driver, randr isn't working04:15
danielsweirdness up the wazoo04:19
danielsmdz: xresprobe 0.4.3 uploaded04:22
mdzdaniels: so apparently, lcdsize.sh wasn't working for anyone04:24
mdzI'm headed out, but I'll re-test later04:24
mdzI'm glad we caught this; it invalidated much of the testing we got from sounders who followed fabio's instructions04:28
danielsmdz: xprobe.sh now explicitly calls /etc/X11/X04:28
mdzdaniels: yep, just got the Accepted, thanks04:28
danielsany time04:28
danielsbbl, family engagement04:29
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lamontis nvidia-settings supposed to build on ppc?06:20
=== lamont bets "no".
lamontnight all06:31
fabbionemorning guys06:41
fabbionelamont: no it's supposed to build on i386 only06:41
jdubKamion: around?06:48
jdubanyone tried the 20040911 daily?06:48
fabbionehey jdub06:56
cefjdub: is that a 'can someone?'07:25
fabbionejdub: but what's the problem with daily?07:25
cefso what part of the world/timezone is ftp.no-name-yet.com07:42
fabbionecef: uk07:43
cefok.. so just under 2 more hrs till the next daily07:43
fabbioneit's at UTC07:45
cefwell the daily builds are all datestamped ~8:30am on the server07:46
ceffor the 11th07:46
fabbioneohhh in that way07:46
cefyup so the next images should be appearing soonish07:47
fabbioneyeps.. if they can build :-)07:47
ceftrue. just thinking it's not worth spending 2 hrs d/loading a daily if it could be out of date in 2 hrs07:48
fabbionecef: rsync is your friend07:49
fabbionedaniels: you around?07:51
cefhe's at some family thing07:52
jdubcef, fabbione: that's "has anyone tried..." :-)07:57
fabbionejdub: is there any problem with it?07:58
fabbionei didn't try but if there are bugs i can stop rsyncing and take a look to it07:58
=== fabbione checks out x.org
jdubfabbione: no, i haven't tried it, i want to know! :)08:21
fabbionejdub: test it and let us know :-)))08:24
mdzjdub: just did an install in 22 minutes08:27
mdzfrom CD boot until "thank you for choosing ubuntu"08:27
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fabbionehey mdz08:30
fabbionemdz: did you have the time to check that autoconfig problem?08:30
fabbionehmm i can see the bug disappeared from my list08:31
=== HcE_ is now known as HcE
fabbionemdz: hoo good catch...08:34
fabbionebut i wasn't too far away when i asked you to check if the screen was switching08:34
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debianistmorning all08:55
cefahh much faster downloads today09:31
debianistcef : improvments to your link?09:31
cefbtw: 20040912 is on the ftp site09:31
cefdebianist: my isp had bandwidth issues a while ago.. now it's much better.. getting ~200KB/sec09:32
cef*sigh* .. now it's just died.. *sigh*09:34
cefhrm.. working now using wget.. perhaps it was the firefox download tool in sounder809:35
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fabbionecef: i sugget to use rsync09:37
fabbionesuggest even09:37
fabbionehey Keybuk 09:37
fabbioneKeybuk: ready for Monza? ;)09:37
=== Keybuk is annoyed though.
Keybukit doesn't look like I did de-mouse my house after all :-(  there's a second one09:38
debianistcef : yeeha! they released the heavy artilary...mines' merely doing 80Kb on a good day09:38
fabbioneKeybuk: put a piece of poisoned cheed09:40
fabbioneit's the easiest09:40
Keybukcan't, have a dog and he'd eat it09:40
Keybukso was using glue traps -- it worked, I thought I'd caught it09:41
KeybukI didn't realise there was a *second* one09:41
debianistcan it be that a DSA is said to be addressed in a version, and i can't find that subversion on the changlog?09:41
Keybukand it's clever, it hid for a few days so I'd take the traps away thinking there was only one09:41
debianistKeybuk : you need to call the exterminator guy..:)09:42
fabbioneKeybuk: oh...09:43
fabbionedebianist: only if there was a mistake somewhere.. but yes it can happen09:43
debianistfabbione : actually i havn't check the woody src pkg changlog, maybe it's there...09:44
fabbionedebianist: DSA are only registered in stable09:44
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kagouhi guys09:44
fabbionehi kagou 09:45
debianisthey kagou09:45
cefhrm.... the screensavers are ........ interesting.. there's currently a cow bouncing up and down on my screen.. hrm09:45
debianistfabbione : most of them. the version format (3.6.2-2.2) number reported to be fixed, appears only on the woody src pacakge.09:46
debianistfabbione : question, how do i reason a conclusion for the sid pkg...09:49
debianistfabbione :nm. managed.09:49
mdzfabbione: autoconfig problem?09:55
kagounight mdz10:03
fabbionemdz: the LCD screen bug10:04
fabbionemdz: good night10:04
=== kimchie is now known as HrdwrBoB
=== HrdwrBoB is now known as Hrdwr-BoB
fabbionedebianist: yes. higher versions are supposed to have the security fix in10:05
=== Hrdwr-BoB is now known as HrdwrBoB
debianistfabbione : i know. however everytime i bump into something not explicitly apparent, i stress a bit ;)10:08
fabbionedebianist: no need to panic10:10
fabbionepitti and mdz are very careful about security status10:11
HrdwrBoBcef: yeah, the cow trampoline one is cool, though kim wanted other animals10:13
ceferm, wtf? I just wget fetched the iso, and it's vanished!10:24
debianistcef : use rsync10:25
cefgrrr. fuck.. I think the firefox download manager deleted the file on me.. argh!10:25
cefdebianist: once I have an image, I will. at the moment, I don't10:25
HrdwrBoBcef: I have sounder 8 here10:25
=== fabbione suggests *again* rsync
cefrsync chews big when you've not got an original10:26
cefHrdwrBoB: yeah yeah.. I gave daniels my only cd, and then the iso got corrupted10:26
fabbionecef: rsync will fix the iso10:26
fabbioneno need to panic10:27
ceffabbione: rsync won't bring back the directory inode10:27
fabbioneoh in that case no10:27
cefwell the transfer rate has improved anyway..10:28
dokofabbione: how much will rsync save for the iso transfer assuming you already have yesterday's iso?10:47
HrdwrBoBdoko: usually over 50%10:49
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HrdwrBoBdoko: actually, much more11:01
HrdwrBoBit seems11:01
Kamionjdub: ?11:05
dokoHrdwr_BoB: next time, currently at 62%11:06
fabbionedoko: quite a lot11:13
fabbionemorning Kamion 11:14
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cefhrm that's annoying..11:49
cefhrm.. never mind11:51
debianistmdz : around?11:58
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debianistmorning pitti12:10
pittidebianist: hi!12:22
debianistpitti : hey how you been?12:22
debianistpitti : i have been advancing slowly since we last talked, i had some outter virtual matters i had to attend to, but i AM advancing. mdz helped alot :) on your absence..12:23
thommdz: ack12:24
thomKamion: fwiw, gnome-volume-manager kills itself when hal goes away12:25
thomwhich is fucken stupid12:25
thomso if hal'd been upgraded, you won't necessarily get popping-up-window love12:25
pittithom: Ah, I already noticed that gvm killed itself, but never found out the cause of it...12:27
Mithrandirthom: kills itself, or falss over?12:27
Mithrandirfalls, even12:27
debianistpitti : the bugzilla 2002 DSA is applied, however there are more bugs there (see #1611) justdave may be on the way to fix those12:27
thomMithrandir: kills itself12:28
thom(it exits cleanly)12:28
debianistpitti : oops wrong bug#12:28
debianistpitti : sedc12:28
pittidebianist: sedc???12:29
thom(can you tell i spent too long with hal/g-v-m the last few days?)12:29
pittithom: I would have never imagined :-)12:29
debianistpitti : #116112:29
debianistpitti : that was sec :)12:30
Mithrandirthom: heh.12:30
Mithrandirthom: that's friggin stupid12:30
debianistpitti : havn't slept much (4 hours, however too much) so i'm little shakey at the kbd12:30
pittidebianist: dude, it's Sunday!12:30
Kamionthom: no, it's hald segfaulting, haven't investigated yet12:31
debianistpitti : so what ? ;)12:31
pittidebianist: at least on Sundays it should be a human right to sleep 8 hours :-)12:32
pittidebianist: I looked at #1161.12:32
debianistpitti : in Israel sunday is a regular day as all days ;)12:32
debianistpitti : a work day12:32
Mithrandiryou're weird. ;)12:32
pittidebianist: so far I ignored all bugzilla security bugs since it is not in Warty12:32
debianistpitti : oh right, mdz told me it's not main.12:33
debianistpitti : ok, so gemme some sight about DSA-204-1, it seems fixed - however the DSA says it still not fixed on sid. changlog shows that version, however the fix is not mentioned.12:34
pittidebianist: nevertheless, if the sarge/sid version is vulnerable, we should tell its maintainer about12:34
debianistpitti : ofcourse. i am documenting it, i even found a dsa which has been fixed in sid, but still the dsa has not been updated.12:34
debianistpitti : mdz told me there would a db for that stuff, to be forwarded back at debian12:35
pittidebianist: regarding DSA-204-1: CAN-2002-1281 and CAN-2002-1282 have been fixed in KDE 3.0.512:37
pittidebianist: so it's history :-)12:37
debianistpitti : would you mind sending me the link?12:38
debianistpitti : unless it's only on the changlog12:38
pittidebianist: just follow the references from the CVE12:39
debianistpitti : k12:39
pittidebianist: http://www.kde.org/info/security/advisory-20021111-1.txt12:40
pittidebianist: regarding DSA-219 (which you asked by mail): its not contained in Warty, AFAICS12:41
debianistpitti : thanks12:41
pittidebianist: generally: such security bugs should always be fixed upstream, so Debian cannot forget to apply a patch in future versions12:42
pittidebianist: BTW, don't you have a free day in a week in Israel?12:43
Kamiontoday's CD image is broken12:43
debianistpitti : we had it, it's basically only saturday, and friday is half day free12:44
debianistpitti : according to the pacakge list on the warty (universal/net) we have dhcpcd12:44
debianistpitti : 1:1.3.22pl4-1312:44
pittidebianist: universe is not Warty12:46
pittidebianist: universe is basically Debian12:46
pittidebianist: or, rather, all packages that Debian additionally has over Warty12:47
debianistpitti : but people can aptitude it, can't they?12:47
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:Kamion] : SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/ | broken: 20040912 CD images
pittidebianist: of course12:48
pittidebianist: nobody should stop them to install Debian packages12:48
pittidebianist: we just don't support the universe12:48
debianistKamion : darn, i wanted to test on the 8200 inspiron ;-)12:48
debianistpitti : ok, so i can disregard everything in universe/* ?12:48
MithrandirKamion: are you making .2 for today, then?12:48
pittiGuys, I have to care for my gf a little. Work will continue tomorrow, happy Sunday!12:48
pittidebianist: of course12:48
KamionMithrandir: I need to get a new debian-installer build first; kernels got out of sync12:49
Kamiondebianist: use 20040911 then12:49
pittidebianist: if you find something that affects Debian, it would be nice if you submitted an RC bug to Debian12:49
pittidebianist: but the Warty packages have high priority12:49
pittidebianist: thanks for your work!12:49
pittidebianist: see you.12:49
debianistpitti : yeah, i wanna finsih warty first12:49
debianistpitti : see ya buddy, take care!12:49
MithrandirKamion: ook :/12:50
=== Kamion rsyncs backwards to get something he can test hald with again
debianistprinting does not work out of the box from epiphany01:04
debianistwhy does it use lpr?01:04
debianistaren't we supposed to be suing CUPS?01:05
Riffthis would be an epiphany limitation I suspect01:07
Riffdon't forget they are wrapping mozilla01:07
dokohmm, trying to install from the 20040912 CD, my network card isn't detected. anybody else seeing this?01:08
Kamiondoko: topic01:09
thomKamion: hrm, let me look01:09
Kamiondoko: sorry, kernel versions got desynced, which is why you're seeing that01:10
KamionI've uploaded a fix but it'll take a while to percolate through the buildd/archive/cdimage chain01:10
dokoseems I'm unlucky with testing ;)01:11
Kamionif it's in the archive before tomorrow morning then I'll do a manual CD build01:12
thomKamion: where/when does hal segfault?01:13
Kamionthom: it was in the middle of walking /sys, had just reached wlan0/beacon or something like that01:14
thomand it's just started doing it? 01:14
Kamionno, seemed to have been at it for some time01:15
Kamionhold on, just put a wireless card in that box so I can get the source and debug it locally01:15
thomoh, right01:15
thomok, that makes me less scared :-)01:15
Kamionless scared?01:15
Kamionoh, I misunderstood your question01:16
KamionI don't know whether it's just started doing it because I've only just got the USB wireless device in question01:16
thom(less scared it was my upload of hal that broke it)01:16
KamionI could binary-chop over CD images, but that's no fun :-)01:16
Mithrandirthom: I'm sure we can find an excuse to blame you anyhow.01:17
debianistanybody know where can I grab pure text version of the DSAs ?01:17
thomMithrandir: i'm sure01:17
debianist(thinking of hacking a script to tell me which DSAs are warty main, and which not)01:18
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HrdwrBoBoh poo01:58
HrdwrBoBI come home to fresh ubuntu images to be informed their broken01:58
=== j1 [~james@c211-30-13-146.thorn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
j1'evening all.02:32
debianisthey Mithrandir02:37
carlosKamion: better here02:39
carlosKamion: I'm installing ubuntu in my imac02:39
carlosand I had some problems with the installer02:39
carlosbut I filled already bug reports about them02:39
carlosKamion: #1170 && #117102:40
Kamionany that are assigned to me are already on my to-do list; any that aren't, aren't :)02:40
cefjust installing the last daily now..02:40
Kamioncef: you mean previous rather than current?02:40
carlosKamion: you have them assigned to you :-)02:40
cefKamion: no current02:41
Kamioncef: it's broken ...02:42
cefKamion: yeah just noticed.. no network drivers in the kernel02:42
Kamioncef: they're there, but the kernel versions are out of sync02:42
Kamioncarlos: then no need to tell me, I get mailed :)02:43
carlosKamion: I decided to fill them after I realized you were not online :-)02:43
Kamion(p.s. "file" not "fill" ...)02:43
cefKamion: hrm.. just looked in /lib/modules/ and there is no net subdir on the cd02:43
carlosKamion: ok, thanks02:44
Kamioncarlos: yeah, was just temporarily distracted02:44
Kamioncef: the drivers are on the CD, in pool/main/l/linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6/, but the kernel versions don't match the running kernel02:44
Kamioncef: I've already uploaded a fix for this02:44
Kamionyep, plug in USB stick, hal go foom02:44
cefKamion: cool02:45
debianistdoes ubuntu support (out of the box, ofcourse) standby mode on APM comliant systems?02:45
debianistKamion : do we have bind in warty? (couldn't find on the package lists)02:46
Kamion     bind9 | 1:9.2.3+9.2.4-rc5-1 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc02:47
cefKamion: thnink there'll be a rebuild of the image with that fixed?02:47
debianisthmmm. k, thanks02:47
Kamioncef: yes, but I have to wait for it to churn through the buildds and the archive and then it has to be manually accepted by elmo because debian-installer uploads are weird02:47
ceffair enuff02:48
Kamiontakes a while :-/02:48
cefjust noticed that lspci isn't available during the install process02:51
Kamionyes, I've always been annoyed by that02:51
Kamionprobably need to implement it in busybox or something02:51
cefand since /proc/pci is gone, it makes it hard to see just what hardware is in there if you do get asked about drivers02:51
Kamionthere's /proc/bus/pci/devices, but its format is unhelpful02:52
debianistKamion : bind9 is different from bind ?02:52
Kamiondebianist: version 902:52
Kamiondebianist: the bind package in Debian is version 802:52
debianistKamion : that's why it's only "bind" on p.d.o ?02:53
Kamiondebianist: (you could use 'apt-cache show bind9', you know ...)02:53
dokoon a new install with yesterday's CD, /dev/dsp is missing (rhythmbox complains)02:53
Kamiondoko: that's probably bug #116602:53
debianistKamion : (k)02:53
=== cef misses the zebra stripes on boot with the installer
debianistdoko : same here02:54
Kamioncef: the current logo's ugly, I know; I'll try to improve it before preview release02:54
Kamionbut I think we have to go with the Ubuntu logo in some form :)02:54
debianistdoko : rythmbox complaint..02:54
cefKamion: I don't have that much problem with it.. but it'd look nicer imho if there was more on the page.. eg: perhaps zebra stripes in a bar across the bottom or something.. meh.. I'm no graphic person anyway02:55
Kamionnor am I02:55
KamionI hacked that up myself by potracing a JPEG02:56
jdubKamion: if the SVGs go up in a reasonable timeframe, i might have a play with the logo against the stripes03:04
jdubmight be unofficial, but it might be cool ;)03:04
=== jdub is off to bed now though
jdub'nacht alles!03:04
debianistKamion : bind8 is in univ/net for backward compatibilty?03:06
j1dudes, is there an easy way to get the nvidia drivers onto this?03:12
Kamiondebianist: *everything* in Debian is in universe, assuming it built03:19
Kamiondebianist: we exercise essentially no quality control there03:20
elmoj1: the nvidia drivers should be in 'restricted', if you add that as a component to your sources.list and try installing it03:21
elmokamion: d-i 12's b-d's are broken I think03:22
elmokamion: it's dep-waiting on pcmcia-storage-modules-
j1elmo: awesome. Thanks!03:22
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-9-240.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu
elmokamion: or, hmm, maybe this is lamont's evil daily auto-build stuff breaking...03:24
j1apologies for the dumb qns, but: what are the ubuntu equivalents of 'service' and 'ntsysv'? Clicky or cmd-line, I'm not fussed.03:26
elmokamion: yeah it is, never mind03:27
Keybukj1: the services you have installed start and stop automatically03:32
Keybukotherwise you can modify the symlinks in /etc/rc2.d yourself03:34
j1Keybuk: what if I want to disable an installed service? Does that mean I have to uninstall it?03:35
Keybukno, just remove the symlink03:35
Keybukno services listen by default though, so I don't think theres any you'd need to disable ?03:36
j1Keybuk: I was asking because I wanted to start sshd (which probably means I need to install it). I used to edit symlinks by hand but got told off for it once because ntsysv (or chkconfig) is meant to do that and it will get it right. I just assumed there would be a similar tool.03:38
Keybukinstall openssh-server -- that'll start automatically then03:39
j1Keybuk: yep, ok.03:39
Keybukyeah, Debian tends more towards installed services start03:39
Keybukthere is a tool to do it, but it's not exactly friendly, so we're not shipping with it03:39
Keybukyou need to know what you're doing to use it, so you may as well just move the symlinks around03:40
j1Keybuk: what is the tool called?03:40
Keybukit's part of gnome-system-tools I think03:40
Keybukbut it's not in our package of it03:40
j1ok. Fair enough.03:40
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=== pooh is now known as debianist
debianistjust had my network hung up..strange. everything was fine with dhcp server and phy devs, bug?03:55
debianistgaim crashed...03:55
lamontelmo: how so>04:18
Kamionhmm, hal doesn't really like USB sticks with no partitions04:19
lamontKamion: d-i woes with the buildd's resolved?04:23
=== Mithrandir whacks self
=== HcE helps Mithrandir
MithrandirHcE: you don't and amd64, you don't get to participate04:24
Mithrandirinsert a "have" and replace and with an.04:25
HcEMithrandir: you don't make sence :P04:25
Mithrandiryou can't spell, so that's ok04:25
=== lamont heads out for a few hours.
Kamionlamont: dunno yet04:25
Kamionlamont: yes, they seem to be04:25
HcEMithrandir: if you can cough up 145k before inovation Norway can, I can by a couple of my planned AMD64 systems04:26
lamontKamion: good - I'll get with elmo and see if he changed anything when I get back home.04:27
MithrandirHcE: you should be careful about what you wish for. ;)04:27
elmolamont: the daily build was trying to use old linux-source, and put it in auto-dep-wait on the removed binaries.. I just forcibly gave it back for all arches04:27
=== Mithrandir hugs elmo
Mithrandirelmo: your "please make ooo-amd64 a non-native package" advice just saved me a 200MB upload.04:28
MithrandirI depended on ia32-libs, not ia32-libs-openoffice.org04:28
Mithrandirwhich blew up, of course.04:29
lamontelmo: I really need a central machine or two so that I can add some more smarts to the auto-dep-waiter... :-(04:31
=== lamont really leaves.
elmomm, what's postfix equiv of 'exim -M<msgid>' again?04:34
Mithrandirsendmail -qR $site is the closest you get04:38
Mithrandirit seems04:38
elmoyeah, I couldn't find anything better either.. ok, thanks04:39
elmo  to pool/main/o/openoffice.org-amd64/openoffice.org-bin_1.1.2-2ubuntu4-2_amd64.deb04:40
Mithrandiraccepted now? :)04:40
elmoyeah, I'm forcing it through now - I want to see an empty "broken depends" output from britney for warty, damn it :)04:41
Mithrandirit should already be empty, shouldn't it?  -1 was cacepted, but broken04:42
Mithrandiraccepted, even04:42
elmooh, I'm not sure, I haven't checked it until now.. in any event, it is empty. yay04:42
Kamionaha, suddenly a load of old ACCEPTED mail arrives ...04:43
elmoyeah, apparently when I said I unbroke canonical.com mail from within the LAN, I missed jackass04:43
Kamionaargh, I uploaded netcfg 1.01ubuntu7, didn't get the REJECTED mail about me having clashed with a version number mdz had used, and then uploaded netcfg 1.01ubuntu8 still unaware of the clash04:44
=== Kamion embarks upon repair operations
elmosorry :(04:44
Kamionah well, fortunately an easy merge04:46
danielsfabbione: sup?04:49
danielshm. unplug usb mass storage, plug it straight back in, watch udev fail to create the device.04:50
danielsmako: ping?04:59
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
pittiHi again05:16
fabbionehey guys05:42
fabbionedaniels: nm.. i have tried to merge the nv driver from xorg but it's a real pain05:42
fabbionedaniels: xaa and other stuff needs backporting too05:42
Kamionok, that's better05:59
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:Kamion] : SSDS | http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/ | Bugs: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/ | broken: 20040912 CD images, fixed: 20040912.1
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu
Kamioncarlos: looking at your keymap bug now, it's possible it won't show up on i386 though06:34
Kamion(which may help narrow it down ... I'm rsyncing the current powerpc ISO too)06:34
Kamion"Instalando el ncleo..." I like the translation of "kernel"06:35
carlosKamion: :-)06:36
carlosKamion: if you need any help, I have the machine ready to reinstall. In fact I was starting a MacOSX installation06:37
Kamionwith any luck I'll be able to reproduce it here06:37
Kamionthanks, though, I'll give you a shout if it doesn't show up06:37
=== doko [doko@dsl-082-083-246-071.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu
Kamionaargh - I know it's kind of necessary, but I hate the sort of test where I inherently have to use a keymap I don't know :(06:38
carlosKamion: you should remember mine :-P, it's the funny one where you don't find any key you need 06:39
Kamionfinding -, /, \, * is particularly aggravating06:39
MithrandirKamion: isn't -fPIC required on PPC?06:40
carlosWell, I'm using the keypad ones because the keymap is wrong here06:40
stocarlos: hi carlos06:41
carlossto: hey!!06:42
KamionMithrandir: I don't remember, to tell you the truth06:42
stocarlos: which bug are you talking about? maybe ubuntu's keymap not working OK on a PowerBook?06:42
carlossto: yes, that one06:43
Kamion                                 'powerpc/amiga' => [ 'amiga' ] , # apus06:43
Kamion                                 'powerpc/chrp' => [ 'pc', 'mac' ] ,06:43
Kamion                                 'powerpc/mac' => [ 'pc' ] ,06:43
Kamion                                 'powerpc/prep' => [ 'pc' ] ,06:43
Kamionis it just me, or does that seem bizarre?06:43
MithrandirKamion: kbd-wise?06:43
Mithrandirthe ppc/mac => [ 'pc' ]  seems weird06:44
carlosKamion: I said some time ago, that new powerpc machines from apple need 'pc' keyboards06:44
carlosI don't remember who but I was looking at it about two years ago and a ppc developer told me that it's normal06:44
carlossto: How is going the tests?, do you like ubuntu?06:45
stocarlos: I've re-arranged my PowerBook to try the S8 CD06:45
Kamioncarlos: hmm, ok06:46
stocarlos: Yes, looks nice, but I have the same problem with the Keyboard06:46
Kamioncarlos: powerpc/mac is not just new machines though06:46
stocarlos: I did the installation in Catalan06:46
Kamionit's e.g. oldworld powermacs too06:46
carlosKamion: perhaps old ones also work with pc keymaps, I don't know06:46
carlosI only have newworld macs06:46
Kamionoh, maybe the mac keymaps are ADB06:47
Kamionthat's a possibility, in which case you'd be right, although the 'mac' entry should disappear from chrp too in that case06:47
carlossto: please add any additional information here: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=117106:47
MithrandirKamion: sure?  What about those powermax (or what they were named) macos-compatible boxes?06:47
Mithrandiror don't we care about that old machines?06:48
Kamioncarlos: how do I distinguish the keymaps?06:48
KamionMithrandir: the ADB versus Linux keymap is a kernel thing, not machine-dependent06:48
stocarlos: Ok, I just opened bugzilla to find it ;)06:48
carlosKamion: one works and the other one does not :-P06:48
carlosKamion: are you using a powerbook?06:48
KamionMithrandir: http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/keycodes06:48
Kamioncarlos: not right now but I will be once it finishes rsyncing06:48
Kamioncarlos: I mean, how would I distinguish between Brazilian and Spanish?06:49
carlosthe correct spanish keyboard06:49
Kamionand which keys don't work?06:49
carlosshould show the @ symbol with Fn + alt + 206:49
carlosand the / symbol with Shift + 706:50
carloslet me boot the imac and I will tell you what I'm getting now...06:50
Kamionok, it probably isn't Brazilian then since I believe that has / on shift-7 too06:50
Kamionhm, no, &06:51
carlosKamion: I'm not sure if it's brazilian, it was only a gues from what I saw with dpkg-reconfigure console-data06:51
carloshmm, in fact.. perhaps it's spanish, but not the right one06:52
carlosbecause I saw the  char06:52
carlosand I'm not sure if that char exists in portuguese06:53
carlosKamion: how could I see the keymap I have?06:53
mdzthom: still here?06:55
Kamioncarlos: um, kinda trying to figure that out at the moment, console-data is extremely odd06:55
mdzKamion: does sounder 8 have the apt-setup which add the ftp.nny.com sources to sources.list?  or was that added after?07:01
Kamionmdz: sounder 8 has it07:05
mdzKamion: thanks07:05
Kamioncarlos: look in /var/log/debian-installer/cdebconf/questions.dat and search for debian-installer/keymap07:13
carlosName: debian-installer/keymap07:14
carlosTemplate: debian-installer/keymap07:14
carlosValue: mac-usb-es07:14
carlosOwners: d-i07:14
carlosKamion: then it's spanish, but it's not my keyboard 07:14
Kamionit probably is; ignore the usb bit07:14
carlosKamion: the problem is that it's mac, and that keyboad does not work07:15
Kamionmac-usb-* is the right keymap for powerbooks generally07:15
carlosit does not work with the powerbook nor with the apple's keyboard pro (USB)07:16
carlosthen we should fix the spanish keymap07:16
Kamionok, give me a few minutes, I want to try some things out here to make sure it's really installing the keymap it thinks it's installing07:17
stocarlos: I don't have the bugzilla account open, anyway is the same thing, I installed on a PowerBook G4 using Catalan and the Keyboard is wrong07:23
stocarlos: It uses the es map07:23
=== bdale [~bdale@rover.gag.com] has joined #ubuntu
carlossto: Catalan has its own keymap?07:25
stocarlos: no, I think it uses the spanish one07:29
stocarlos: at least in debian I'm using it and works OK07:29
carlosok, then you have the same problem, which keymap do you use with Debian?07:30
stoThe same as you, it seems:07:31
stoName: debian-installer/keymap07:31
stoTemplate: debian-installer/keymap07:31
stoValue: mac-usb-es07:31
stoOwners: d-i07:31
sto(this is from my Debian Sid installation)07:32
Kamioncarlos: hm, yes, the keymap does seem pretty broken07:32
carlosKamion: With Debian (and warty) the only keyboard that works for me is qwerty/Spanish/Standard/CP85007:32
carlossto: but you did not changed it after the installation? the Debian one is also broken for me07:33
Kamioncarlos: does 'sudo loadkeys es' get you something useful?07:33
Kamioncarlos: or do you need 'sudo loadkeys es-cp850'?07:33
carlosKamion: yes, it works now07:33
Kamionis that right for all keys?07:33
carlosthe first one works07:33
carloslet me check07:34
carlosKamion: yes, seems like all keys work now07:34
carloswell, I'm not able to type the chars: 07:36
stocarlos: I think I left it as it was ... but I installed with a d-i beta07:36
carlosbut that's not a big problem07:36
Kamionwhere are those on the keyboard?07:36
Kamionand does 'sudo loadkeys es-cp850' mean you can type them?07:36
carlosAltGr + z and AltGr + x07:36
Kamionanything else on AltGr+<letter key>?07:37
carlosKamion: no, same problem. But as I said, it's not a big problem. They are not drawed into the keyboard and I think are a linux specific mapping07:37
carlosKamion: the other AltGr + letter key works @#~ 07:38
Kamionwhich letters are those?07:38
KamionAltGr + e/c should be euro/cent as well I think07:38
carlosAltGr + 1 2 3 e c07:38
carlosyes, they work07:39
Kamion1 looks like it should be | in es.kmap07:39
KamionAltGr+1 that is07:39
carlosand the \ char is in the key below the Esc key07:39
carlosKamion: do you need to know all chars?07:40
Kamioncarlos: could you file a bug on console-data in Debian about this, saying that it should use es.kmap on PowerMacs as well as PCs?07:42
KamionI'll fix it in warty07:43
carlosKamion: thank you07:43
carlosKamion: seems like it's not only a problem with Spanish but I'm not sure if it's ppc related http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=24987507:46
Kamionthat looks quite different to me07:47
Kamioncarlos: hm, wait, not sure this is console-data's fault actually07:50
=== carlos waits
fabbionecarlos: which version of X are you using?07:53
carlosfabbione: latest one in warty. I did a fresh installation07:53
Kamionthe Spanish keymap is wrong in the first stage too07:53
fabbionecarlos: from daily or sounder?07:53
fabbionecarlos: a net install?07:53
carlosfabbione: daily from yesterday07:53
fabbionecarlos: ok07:54
carlosfabbione: wait a second and I will tell you the version (booting)07:54
fabbionecarlos: ok07:54
carlosfabbione: the keyboad problem I have in text mode is also present with XFree07:54
fabbionecarlos: i didn't read the backlog on irc...07:54
fabbionecarlos: i was only checking "my bugs"07:54
carlosdon't worry, I will file a bug about it later07:55
carlosfabbione: 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu1507:55
fabbioneaccording to documentation the fbdevice is safe to use!07:56
fabbioneand if it's not there it is not used07:56
fabbionecarlos: logout from X and on console do: xresprobe nv07:56
fabbione(be sure to have xresprobe 0.4.3 or higher)07:56
carlosid: color LCD07:57
carlosres: 1024x768@6007:57
fabbione@60 ???07:57
carlosI have 0.4.307:57
carlosfabbione: yes, and it's also present in the configuration file07:57
fabbioneit should NOT report @60!07:58
carlosthe @6007:58
fabbionethat's why it doesn't work07:58
fabbionexresprobe has been broken07:58
carlosthen, If I remove it from the configuration file, it should work again?07:58
fabbionecarlos: just a second...07:59
fabbionecarlos: can you put your X config somewhere on the web so i can tell you what to check?08:00
carlosfabbione: you have it attached to the bug report08:00
fabbioneoh right08:01
fabbionecarlos: remove all the @60 from Modes08:02
fabbionecarlos: sorry.. starting from scratch08:02
fabbioneusing the same config as you attached to the bug report08:02
fabbionethe "autodetected" one08:02
carlossi the one I have08:02
carlosI'm not working from that machine08:02
fabbioneremove all the @6008:03
carlosat this moment the X server does not work08:03
carlosfabbione: done, same problem, it does not starts08:03
fabbioneHorizSync 28-33 -> HorizSync 28-5008:03
carlosthe fb problem08:03
fabbionecarlos: yes.. just a second :-)08:03
fabbioneok .. remove the FB entry08:04
fabbionewith that sync you should be able to get 1024x76808:04
carlosfabbione: fixed08:04
carlosfabbione: thank you08:04
fabbionecarlos: ok.. to summarize08:05
carlosdo you need any log file with this configuration?08:05
fabbionethe frequency has been miscalculated because xresprobe output has been changed with no warnings08:05
fabbionethe frequency i gave you now is the same that the autoconfig would have used if xresprobe was working08:06
fabbioneso the only problem now is to understand why the FBDev stuff is crancked08:06
fabbioneno thanks.. i don't need the log08:06
carlosfabbione: do you want acces to the iMac?08:06
fabbionecarlos: no thanks :-)08:07
carlosfabbione: anything I could do to help you with the FBDev problem?08:07
fabbionecarlos: i will ask in future if i will need08:07
fabbionebut thanks for the offer08:07
fabbionewell i guess i will have to check again the script that enables it08:07
fabbionei remember there is a specific test for it08:08
fabbioneperhaps the code is not fully functional08:08
fabbionebut i will come back to you on that if i have problems to figure out myself08:08
fabbionebe sure about it :-)08:08
carlosfabbione: a cosmetic bug...08:08
carlosfabbione: I see my screen pink when X starts (until I see the normal X background)08:09
fabbionecarlos: otherwise.. if you have time.. check /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xfree86.config08:09
carlosand when the X server tries to turn off the display08:09
fabbionecarlos: search fro FBDEV08:09
Kamioncarlos: hm, file it against kbd-chooser to start with; I'm not sure it's actually there, but there's some complicated interaction between it and console-keymaps-* going on08:09
fabbionecarlos: and try to run the same routine manually and see where it fails08:09
=== pitti [~pitti@] has joined #ubuntu
fabbionecarlos: hmmm i am not sure i can do much about the pink08:10
carlosKamion: ok08:10
fabbionecarlos: probably it's just a driver cosmetic bug...08:10
fabbionei need to go for dinner now08:10
fabbionecarlos: thanks a lot for your detailed report08:10
carlosfabbione: ok, thank you08:10
fabbionelater guys08:10
=== cprov [~cprov@200-206-134-238.async.com.br] has joined #ubuntu
thommdz: wasn't, am now08:21
carlosjdub: ping08:32
Kamionhey, that partition-name-changing bug might be easy08:39
carlosKamion: you know why it fails?08:39
Kamioncombination of two, possibly three reasons08:39
=== lucas_ [~lucas@cab-192023.calixo.net] has joined #ubuntu
carlosKamion: it's funny that we can change the names with the installer but the normal fdisk does not let you change it :-P (off topic)08:40
Kamionmac-fdisk probably will?08:40
Kamiondon't remember08:40
carlosKamion: I think the fdisk in ppc is by default mac-fdisk08:40
Kamionthe name-changing feature was obviously never tested upstream08:40
carlosKamion: yes, fdisk is a symbolic link to mac-fdisk08:41
Kamionmac-fdisk is a bit crap really08:42
Kamionok, fixed two out of the three reasons, but I can still make it hang by entering an empty name08:43
elmoI'm about to make some changes to the archive - apt-get make break08:45
elmokamion: what do you want the CD Images available on?08:49
elmokamion: should there be a cdimage.$HOTNAME.$TLD available?08:50
carlosKamion: the hang I have is before I get any dialog to type the name08:51
Kamionelmo: oh, yes please08:52
Kamioncarlos: yes, I know, already debugged and fixed08:53
elmocan anyone think of a better alternative rather than/in addition to ftp.$HOSTNAME.$TLD ?08:54
elmothe problem with archive.$H.$T is it clashes with Debian's usage08:54
carlosKamion: ok, thanks08:55
Kamionpretty long ...08:55
Clintsounds like SCM08:55
Kamionpackages? also clashes though08:55
Kamionbut arguably less badly - you could put something like packages.debian.org up on the same domain quite reasonably08:56
lamontwarez.$H.$T? :-)08:57
Kamiontraditionally, the last should be an A record to :-)08:58
lamontAAAA ::108:58
lamontor maybe that's just really 'leet warezkiddies08:59
ClintIs AAAA more 'leet than A6?09:01
KamionA6 is dead I thought09:02
elmohmm.. I still like archive best.. damn Guy Maor or whoever chose that name for it's use in Debian09:02
Clintdoesn't make it un-'leet09:02
Clintelmo: progeny does it, why not you?09:03
mdzthom: do you have an sk98lin nic?09:21
elmogar.  hate decisions.09:21
mdzelmo: I prefer archive also09:21
elmookay, we'll go with archive by default (but ftp will still be available)09:22
mdzdo we really need a separate cdimage.$DOMAIN?09:23
mdzwould that be to enable mirrors who carry packages or images, but not both?09:23
Kamioncdimage.$DOMAIN could be a useful web site09:24
elmokamion: okay, archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu is up and running - what needs changed beyond base-config to make us use it by default?09:25
elmomdz: they're in different top level dirs, not much difference there09:26
Kamionpossibly one or two other things, I'll need to grep09:26
Kamionoh, debian-cd, obviously09:26
Kamioncan we start using that immediately then?09:27
elmoGet:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main Packages [463kB] 09:28
mdzelmo: security.ubuntu.com as well?09:29
Kamion"Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu." ooh09:29
elmoerr, nope, that would make sense.09:30
Kamion<cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/canonical/choose-mirror/choose-mirror-0.045ubuntu6>$ wcgrep ftp.no-name-yet.com | wc -l09:30
=== mdz runs around updating sources.list
elmo?? why so many?09:31
=== Kamion runs perl and hopes
Kamion./choose-mirror.c:278:  asprintf(&command, "wget -q http://ftp.no-name-yet-com/no-name-yet/dists/%s/Release -O - | grep ^Suite: | cut -d' ' -f 2", PREFERRED_DISTRIBUTION);09:31
Kamionaargh, spot the deliberate error09:31
Kamionfabbione: how did choose-mirror manage to work?09:32
mdzperl -pi.old -e 's,ftp.no-name-yet.com,archive.ubuntu.com,g; s,security.no-name-yet.com,security.ubuntu.com,g; s,/no-name-yet,/ubuntu,g;'09:32
mdzis what I've been using09:32
elmookay, security works now too09:32
mdzelmo: should we have a security/universe?09:33
elmomdz: I thought not, given that it's a lose/lose.  if we use it, people will assume universe is supported.   if we don't, (fewer) people will infer it's supported by the directories existing09:33
elmobut I can add it in if you want.. *shrug*09:33
mdzelmo: as I recall, Mark's feeling on the subject was that we would end up serving up community-provided security updates for universe, I think09:34
mdzmaybe a question for sounder?09:34
Kamionelmo: Mirrors.masterlist in choose-mirror has your name and e-mail (@nocrew) as a contact address09:35
elmommph, right.. 09:35
Kamionelmo: is there some role address we should use instead?09:35
elmokamion: ?? really? how krazy09:35
lamontfwiw, kaffe and sablevm also have binNMU's (warty i386)09:35
KamionFabio added it I think09:35
elmokamion: hmm, blah, more decisions.. ftpmaster@ubuntu.com I guess..09:35
elmoor archive@ubuntu.com maybe...09:35
mdzarchivemaster? ;-)09:35
elmokatie@ubuntu.com?  always amusing how many debian developers that fools09:36
mdzI was always surprised how much trouble testing-security caused in Debian09:36
mdzcut-and-paste syndrome, I guess09:36
thommdz: no, i have an nforce3 board - sk98lin's are only on via amd64 mobos09:36
Kamionactually I could just delete it, I don't think it's needed for the master site09:36
elmokamion: go for ftpmaster for now, I just realised it's on the new key09:37
Kamionit's useful as a registry of mirror contacts (which we're going to need eventually ...)09:37
mdzthom: ok, was hoping maybe you could help test the autodetection issue.  I have an nforce board as well09:37
elmo(if you need it)09:37
=== Kamion takes the zap-it approach upon reflection
elmoso, I suppose I ought to add ftp support.. more possible short-term archive breakage coming up09:37
thommdz: i'll make sure to get a via when i upgrade then :-)09:37
elmothat's one thing that puts me off AMD chips is the limited mobo choice - are Opterons generally still only available with via/nvidia chipsets?09:38
KamionI've seen ATI09:38
Kamionoh, you said motherboard, not chipset09:40
thomelmo: yes.09:40
Kamionmine's an ABit motherboard and ATI graphics card, can't see a chipset indicated09:40
justdaveKamion: if I want to file a test bug with the existing unmodified reportbug, is there a package I can report against that nobody will yell at me for filing a test bug in?09:42
Kamionwhat, against Debian?09:43
elmojustdave: 'ed'09:43
Kamionuse --debug? (check the man page first to make sure you have the version that just sends the mail to yourself)09:43
justdavehmm, that's a thought.09:43
justdaveI could probably just ask people that have used it more than I have and remember what it asks, too :)09:44
justdavethere's code in it for using a variety of MUAs and MTAs for delivering the mail09:44
justdavetrying to figure out how it decides what to use if you don't pass command line arguments to change it09:44
Kamion/usr/sbin/sendmail I think09:45
Kamion(i.e. standard mail sending interface)09:45
justdavethe man page says "built-in mailer" but "any MTA with a /usr/sbin/sendmail" is one of the choices you can set as an option09:45
justdaveto me that implies it does SMTP directly or something09:45
KamionJesus, I thought choose-mirror was bad09:45
Kamion<cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/canonical/base-config/base-config-2.44ubuntu17>$ wcgrep no-name-yet | wc -l09:45
Kamiontranslations again09:47
justdavemaybe I shouldn't worry about reportbug. :)  people who are likely to use it probably know how to set up their mailer. :)09:48
justdavebug-buddy on the other hand is going to be interesting, because it uses /usr/sbin/sendmail, and that's the only choice.09:49
justdaveand the default install of postfix on warty isn't capable of sending mail from 80% of the cable/dsl/dialup connections in the US09:50
elmo7.7G    /var/log/ftp/vsftpd.log09:50
justdave(without additional config)09:50
mdzI think I have a lead on #106609:50
mdzer, 116609:50
mdzI bet alsa-base hasn't been installed yet when hotplug runs09:50
mdzconfirmed, it works fine on the second boot09:51
mdzKamion: what do you think is the best way to handle that?09:51
Kamionjust move alsa-base to Base?09:52
mdzthat would pull in alsa-utils...anything else?09:53
Kamionrerun hotplug maybe, ugh09:53
mdzre-running hotplug wouldn't help :-/09:53
mdzbecause the module is already loaded, I don't think the triggers would run09:53
=== Kamion thwaps people who've written things like "security.nny.com"
mdzKamion: if you're ok with the changes to base/debootstrap/whatever else, that's probably simplest09:54
mdzother options include moving the triggers into a different package, hackishly modprobing the oss modules from base-config...09:55
Kamionif you're happy with the size increase (bit over .5MB), it's easy to change even at this point09:56
Kamionhardcode the oss stuff into hotplug?09:56
Kamionor hw-detect, although that's probably too gross to contemplate09:57
mdzit'd probably be most appropriate in module-init-tools, if it's going to move09:57
mdzlike /etc/modprobe.d/aliases09:57
elmookay, all done, I think, including ftp support (mares'r'us)09:59
Kamionaargh, bloody gettext09:59
mdzalsa-base truly belongs in desktop, I think09:59
Kamionit's split "no-name-yet" across lines in several places09:59
mdzmaybe alsa-base should check for this condition when it's installed, and load the modules10:00
Kamionmdz: module-init-tools or similar> agreed I think10:01
mdzKamion: I'm leaning toward the alsa-base postinst solution, myself10:02
mdzif snd-pcm is loaded, load snd-pcm-oss; etc.10:02
Kamionon initial install only10:04
Kamionelmo: choose-mirror and base-config both updated10:04
Kamionbase-config needed an update anyway since the Origin: in our Release files has changed10:04
elmowell that and it had a fatal typo ;-)10:05
mdz        if [ -z "$2" ] ; then10:09
mdz                for ossmod in pcm mixer seq; do10:09
mdz                        if lsmod | grep -qw "^snd.$ossmod"; then10:09
mdz                                modprobe -q snd-$ossmod-oss10:09
mdz                        fi10:09
mdz                done10:09
mdz        fi10:10
mdzKamion: seem reasonable?10:10
elmokamion: the no-name-yet-com thing you posted earlier - or was that something else?10:10
Clintmdz: why not grep for the actual string?10:10
mdzClint: which actual string?10:11
Clintsnd-$ossmod-oss instead of snd.$ossmod10:11
Kamionelmo: oh, that was choose-mirror10:11
mdzClint: we only want to load snd-foo-oss if snd-foo is loaded10:11
Kamionelmo: turned out it just made it ask a question at priority critical instead of low10:11
Clintmdz: oh, then revise to "why . instead of -?"10:12
Kamionmdz: I'd stick \$ at the end of the grep10:12
mdzClint: it's either . or [_-] 10:12
Kamionor whatever the terminator is, I guess it isn't actually at end-of-line, but just to avoid matching snd-$ossmod-oss itself10:12
mdzit's end-of-word10:12
mdzwhich is why I used -w10:13
mdzwhich is simpler than figuring out how to match the end of a word in whichever of the 50 regex variants grep uses10:13
Clintit's either \> or \b10:13
Kamionoh, -w, missed that10:13
elmokamion: that base-config and choose-mirror are in the archive now, btw10:13
Kamionelmo: good. I think I'll just let the CD generation happen tomorrow unless there's something particularly urgent10:14
Clintwhat's with the -/_ discrepancy?10:14
mdzI'll use "^snd.$ossmod\>" over -w10:14
mdzClint: 2.4 vs. 2.610:14
mdzI'll write it as [_-]  so it's clear what it wants10:15
Clintso modprobe does the -/_ translation?10:15
mdzI just remembered that alsa-base also has /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/alsa-base10:17
mdzthough, hotplug seems to do the right thing and prefer the alsa modules anyway10:17
mdzbut maybe that's just luck10:17
mdzthe alsa modules are listed first10:18
mdzin the map files10:18
mdzat least in my case10:18
mdzanyone know if that's intentional or coincidence?10:19
mdzif it isn't, then we may need to move alsa-base to base after all10:20
lamontjustdave: what additional config does postfix need to send mail for your 80%??10:21
lamont(I know it's missing stuff, but it's not allowed to ask questions...)10:21
Kamionmdz: give me a shout if you need debootstrap changes, I'm off to get something to eat now10:21
mdzKamion: I think I'm leaning in that direction, being unable to easily verify this in the kernel source10:22
mdzKamion: if you're happy for them to move, I'm happy to consider them appropriate for base as hardware detection stuffs10:22
justdavelamont: needs /etc/mailname set to a domain that exists outside your LAN, and relayhost set to the ISP's SMTP server (since most of them block outbound port 25 these days)10:23
lamontjustdave: yeah - that'd be those pesky questions things... :-(10:24
cefmdz: you're asking about hotplug order and audio? I've had to deal with it before.. ask away10:24
cefbtw: seems that if you load oss and alsa modules at the same time, alsa 'may' block, while oss will seemingly work.. cos the oss code doesn't always check that it's in use. hence it's always good to have hotplug blacklist the oss modules10:26
mdzcef: I'm asking whether we can rely on the fact that the alsa modules are listed before oss modules in, e.g. modules.pcimap10:28
mdzor whether it's coincidental and we need /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/alsa-base10:28
mdzcef: do you happen to know, or know where to look to find out?10:35
mdzI guess that'd be in depmod10:35
cefthink it's coincidental.. though I don't 100% know.. I know that if  discover is run before hotplug, discover will load all the oss modules too, though I think we don't use discover anymore (hankfully, I hope)10:35
cefsounds the right place10:35
mdzlooks like it just does it in readdir() order10:38
mdzso it won't be deterministic10:38
mdzcef: yes, that's exactly why we ditched the init script in discover10:38
mdzit's still used to look up the X driver name10:39
mdzbut it doesn't load any kernel modules by default10:39
mdzKamion: that cinches it; we want alsa-base in Base10:40
mdzI'll update the wiki10:40
ceffwiw, I think that because of where alsa modules go in the directory structure, it'll pretty much always come up first, but that of course could change10:42
cefok, time to go to work..10:42
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
=== Uclintu [~clint@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu
debianisthey again people, just got back, what's cooking? ;-)11:24
=== Kamion fries warty gently
thombut i want my warty blue!11:25
Kamion"cut its horns off, wipe its arse, and stick it on the plate"11:25
debianistI'll have mine raw11:26
debianistlike in a sushi11:26
thomKamion: i think we're about to take that to the limit on wednesday :-)11:27
debianistjust got a gift, iTouch 22 Logitech Control Center thingiy..think it'll work with ubuntu? ;)11:31
debianistkbd and mouse are standard, is there anything to support the buttons and extras ?11:32
thomi imagine that gnome can be told to use the additional buttons proividng you get x events for them11:34
debianistthom : yeah, i suppose so. anyways i'll test tommorow after I get my AC adaptor..11:37
mdzthom: you'd think so, but it doesn't work for the thinkpad buttons :-)11:38
debianistmdz : would be nice to support those, there are MacOS X drivers though..can't we hack them for our usage? (not in warty ofcourse)11:39
KamionDarwin drivers can often be reverse-engineered but it'll take a kernel hacker who knows Darwin11:40
thommdz: true dat11:41
thommy MS natural keyboard has all sorts of "My Music" and "Reply" buttons and all sorts of crap, and they all seem to work11:41
thommdz: i wonder if gnome specificly excludes those thinkpad buttons for some reason?11:42
debianistthom : have you done any excess configs for it to work?11:43
carlosdebianist: does xev tells you anything when you press the keys?11:45
carlosif xev detects them, gnome can handle them11:45
jdubcarlos: pong11:48
debianistcarlos : i'd love to see thos messages, however a proper adaptor (this is a gift from a relative of the US) would be only tommorow :)11:48
carlosdebianist: :-)11:48
debianistcarlos : i'll check and report back11:48
carlosjdub: could you change my mail address from all mailing list?11:49

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