[01:11] <debianist> justdave : what does a -N means next to a deb package number?
[01:11] <debianist> justdave : as in  version 1.2.5-8 for libpng3?
[01:13] <justdave> no clue
[01:13] <justdave> oh, wait...
[01:13] <justdave> you mean like the -8 in your example?
[01:13] <debianist> justdave : yep
[01:14] <justdave> the number to the left of the - is the upstream version number
[01:14] <justdave> the number on the right of it is usually how many times it's been rebuilt with additional fixes by Debian
[01:14] <debianist> justdave : i have  fixed in version 1.0.12-7 for libpng and in version 1.2.5-8 for libpng3,
[01:15] <debianist> justdave : however warty is Version: 1.2.5.0-7
[01:16] <justdave> not sure on that one.
[01:16] <justdave> could ask whoever packaged it for warty
[01:17] <justdave> mdz or jdub would probably know, too
[01:17] <mdz> debianist: check the changelog
[01:17] <debianist> mdz : checked it
[01:17] <debianist> mdz : rechecking..
[01:21] <mdz> debianist: Debian and Warty have the same version of libpng3
[01:21] <mdz> debianist: and if you read the changelog, it lists the security fixes made in 1.2.5.0-7
[01:25] <debianist> mdz : right, i can see anywahere the changlog  CAN-2002-1363.
[01:25] <seb128> mdz: here ?
[01:26] <debianist> mdz : that is, i can't see..
[01:26] <debianist> mdz : which is in DSA-213-1
[01:34] <mdz> seb128: in and out
[01:35] <seb128> mdz: ok, just a quick question. I need to update gnumeric to register it in the mime system ... wondering if I should sync with the debian package
[01:35] <seb128> mdz: we have -1: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gnumeric/gnumeric_1.2.13-4/changelog
[01:36] <seb128> mdz: JHM mainly fixed some bugs and backported translation from CVS for sarge ... usually he does a good job, what do you think ?
[01:36] <mdz> debianist: if you search the changelog for 1.2.5.0-7, you find 1.2.5-8
[01:36] <mdz> 1.2.5-8 < 1.2.5.0-7
[01:41] <mdz> seb128: I do not see any fixes in there that seem release-critical, so I do not think we should sync
[01:41] <seb128> ok
[01:43] <seb128> mdz: BTW I've updated gdm for the path but not to the new version, we have an 2.6.0.3-0ubuntu15 with changes in the .diff.gz ... not easy to update to 2.6.0.4
[01:45] <jdub> mdz: having played with bluetooth stuff now, i'm pretty concerned with having bluez-utils installed by default on the desktop
[01:45] <jdub> mdz: it goes against our 'no listening' policy
[01:46] <jdub> mdz: can i shift the bluetooth packages out into supported?
[01:47] <debianist> mdz : still can't find CAN/DSA reference on the changelog for that specific secbug, nor on the bugtrails, any idea why?
[01:53] <mdz> debianist: usually there is not a specific reference in the changelog
[01:53] <mdz> debianist: sometimes because the unstable package is released before the DSA
[01:53] <mdz> debianist: often because the maintainer just doesn't do it; it's not required
[01:54] <mdz> jdub: what did you discover in playing with it?
[01:54] <jdub> mdz: listening by default, pin=1234, etc. we should just not have those daemons running for warty.
[01:55] <jdub> mdz: they are not user-controllable, etc.
[01:55] <mdz> jdub: ->supported is OK with me
[01:55] <mdz> jdub: my only real concern was for people with bluetooth keyboards and such
[01:56] <jdub> mmm, i think we could safely dodge that until hoary
[01:56] <jdub> i'll put it on the hoary page though
[01:57] <lifeless> daniels: if I take a screen shot, the screen shots of menus are fuxored but the rest is ok. ubuntu-something.
[02:30] <HrdwrBoB> is the lack of /dev/dsp and the defaulting of gstreamer to OSS a known thing?
[02:34] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: well, oss emulation is *meant* to be there by default
[02:34] <debianist> HrdwrBoB : i had that problem also.
[02:34] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: a few people have mentioned that it wasn't on their installs
[02:34] <HrdwrBoB> OSS emulation is present
[02:34] <HrdwrBoB> just /dev/dsp doesn't exist
[02:34] <debianist> exactly
[02:34] <HrdwrBoB> and if we're using alsa, why is gstreamer set to OSS?
[02:35] <debianist> my latest install i had the same problem, something i did (or didn't) fixed it. wasn't paying attention so i don't remember what it was.
[02:37] <jdub> HrdwrBoB: we're using alsa but with oss emulation (it tends to be more stable than current attempts to use alsa directly)
[02:37] <HrdwrBoB> /dev/dsp still doesn't exist, but I changed gstreamer to use alsa
[02:38] <jdub> /dev/dsp is meant to exist if the oss pcm emulation thingy is loaded
[02:38] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[02:38] <HrdwrBoB> hm, actually, oss emulation doesn't seem to be loaded
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> this PC has onboard ac97 crap and an SB live
[02:39] <debianist> HrdwrBoB : same here. could the 2 sound cards config be the trigger?
[02:39] <HrdwrBoB> that's what I'm thinking
[02:45] <mdz> HrdwrBoB: snd-pcm-oss is loaded?
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> no

[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_emu10k1            80776  3
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_rawmidi            23232  1 snd_emu10k1
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_pcm                85540  2 snd_emu10k1
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_timer              23172  1 snd_pcm
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_seq_device          7944  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_ac97_codec         59268  1 snd_emu10k1
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_page_alloc         11144  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_pcm
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_util_mem            4608  1 snd_emu10k1
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd_hwdep               9120  1 snd_emu10k1
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> snd                    50660  13 snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_seq_device,snd_ac97_codec,snd_util_mem,snd_hwdep
[02:46] <HrdwrBoB> soundcore               9824  1 snd
[02:47] <mdz> then you don't have OSS emulation
[02:47] <mdz> which is why /dev/dsp doesn't exist
[02:47] <mdz> modprobe snd-pcm-oss should get it going
[02:47] <HrdwrBoB> I know that, but it's not really the point :)
[02:48] <mdz> yes, there is a bug if it is not being loaded automatically
[02:48] <mdz> but you did say that it was present
 hm, actually, oss emulation doesn't seem to be loaded
[02:48] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[02:48] <HrdwrBoB> corrected myself
[02:48] <mdz> ah, I see
[02:49] <HrdwrBoB> file a bug against d-i ?
[02:50] <mdz> I'm already filing one
[02:50] <mdz> not d-i; it's not entirely clear where it should happen at this point
[02:50] <mdz> probably alsa-base
[02:50] <HrdwrBoB> ok cool
[03:18] <debianist> i'm off to bed.
[03:19] <debianist> nighters all
[04:11] <daniels> lifeless: bizzare
[04:15] <lifeless> would an example help? 
[04:15] <lifeless> remember i have weirdness here:
[04:15] <lifeless> gl is bust (not using the hardware driver), ati prop driver, randr isn't working
[04:19] <daniels> weirdness up the wazoo
[04:22] <daniels> mdz: xresprobe 0.4.3 uploaded
[04:24] <mdz> daniels: so apparently, lcdsize.sh wasn't working for anyone
[04:24] <mdz> I'm headed out, but I'll re-test later
[04:28] <mdz> I'm glad we caught this; it invalidated much of the testing we got from sounders who followed fabio's instructions
[04:28] <daniels> mdz: xprobe.sh now explicitly calls /etc/X11/X
[04:28] <mdz> daniels: yep, just got the Accepted, thanks
[04:28] <daniels> any time
[04:29] <daniels> bbl, family engagement
[06:20] <lamont> is nvidia-settings supposed to build on ppc?
[06:31] <lamont> night all
[06:41] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:41] <fabbione> lamont: no it's supposed to build on i386 only
[06:48] <jdub> Kamion: around?
[06:48] <jdub> anyone tried the 20040911 daily?
[06:56] <fabbione> hey jdub
[06:56] <fabbione> nope...
[07:25] <cef> jdub: is that a 'can someone?'
[07:25] <fabbione> jdub: but what's the problem with daily?
[07:42] <cef> so what part of the world/timezone is ftp.no-name-yet.com
[07:43] <fabbione> cef: uk
[07:43] <cef> ok.. so just under 2 more hrs till the next daily
[07:44] <fabbione> uh?
[07:45] <fabbione> it's at UTC
[07:46] <cef> well the daily builds are all datestamped ~8:30am on the server
[07:46] <cef> for the 11th
[07:46] <fabbione> ohhh in that way
[07:47] <cef> yup so the next images should be appearing soonish
[07:47] <fabbione> yeps.. if they can build :-)
[07:48] <cef> true. just thinking it's not worth spending 2 hrs d/loading a daily if it could be out of date in 2 hrs
[07:49] <fabbione> cef: rsync is your friend
[07:51] <fabbione> daniels: you around?
[07:52] <cef> he's at some family thing
[07:57] <jdub> cef, fabbione: that's "has anyone tried..." :-)
[07:58] <fabbione> jdub: is there any problem with it?
[07:58] <fabbione> i didn't try but if there are bugs i can stop rsyncing and take a look to it
[08:21] <jdub> fabbione: no, i haven't tried it, i want to know! :)
[08:24] <fabbione> jdub: test it and let us know :-)))
[08:24] <jdub> ...
[08:27] <mdz> jdub: just did an install in 22 minutes
[08:27] <mdz> from CD boot until "thank you for choosing ubuntu"
[08:28] <jdub> nice!
[08:30] <fabbione> hey mdz
[08:30] <fabbione> mdz: did you have the time to check that autoconfig problem?
[08:31] <fabbione> hmm i can see the bug disappeared from my list
[08:34] <fabbione> mdz: hoo good catch...
[08:34] <fabbione> but i wasn't too far away when i asked you to check if the screen was switching
[08:55] <debianist> morning all
[09:31] <cef> ahh much faster downloads today
[09:31] <debianist> cef : improvments to your link?
[09:31] <cef> btw: 20040912 is on the ftp site
[09:32] <cef> debianist: my isp had bandwidth issues a while ago.. now it's much better.. getting ~200KB/sec
[09:34] <cef> *sigh* .. now it's just died.. *sigh*
[09:35] <cef> hrm.. working now using wget.. perhaps it was the firefox download tool in sounder8
[09:35] <cef> hrm
[09:37] <fabbione> cef: i sugget to use rsync
[09:37] <fabbione> suggest even
[09:37] <fabbione> hey Keybuk 
[09:37] <fabbione> Keybuk: ready for Monza? ;)
[09:38] <Keybuk> yeah
[09:38] <Keybuk> it doesn't look like I did de-mouse my house after all :-(  there's a second one
[09:38] <debianist> cef : yeeha! they released the heavy artilary...mines' merely doing 80Kb on a good day
[09:40] <fabbione> Keybuk: put a piece of poisoned cheed
[09:40] <fabbione> it's the easiest
[09:40] <Keybuk> can't, have a dog and he'd eat it
[09:41] <Keybuk> so was using glue traps -- it worked, I thought I'd caught it
[09:41] <Keybuk> I didn't realise there was a *second* one
[09:41] <debianist> can it be that a DSA is said to be addressed in a version, and i can't find that subversion on the changlog?
[09:41] <Keybuk> and it's clever, it hid for a few days so I'd take the traps away thinking there was only one
[09:42] <debianist> Keybuk : you need to call the exterminator guy..:)
[09:43] <fabbione> Keybuk: oh...
[09:43] <fabbione> debianist: only if there was a mistake somewhere.. but yes it can happen
[09:44] <debianist> fabbione : actually i havn't check the woody src pkg changlog, maybe it's there...
[09:44] <fabbione> debianist: DSA are only registered in stable
[09:44] <kagou> hi guys
[09:45] <fabbione> hi kagou 
[09:45] <debianist> hey kagou
[09:45] <cef> hrm.... the screensavers are ........ interesting.. there's currently a cow bouncing up and down on my screen.. hrm
[09:46] <debianist> fabbione : most of them. the version format (3.6.2-2.2) number reported to be fixed, appears only on the woody src pacakge.
[09:49] <debianist> fabbione : question, how do i reason a conclusion for the sid pkg...
[09:49] <debianist> fabbione :nm. managed.
[09:55] <mdz> fabbione: autoconfig problem?
[10:02] <mdz> night
[10:03] <kagou> night mdz
[10:04] <fabbione> mdz: the LCD screen bug
[10:04] <fabbione> mdz: good night
[10:05] <fabbione> debianist: yes. higher versions are supposed to have the security fix in
[10:08] <debianist> fabbione : i know. however everytime i bump into something not explicitly apparent, i stress a bit ;)
[10:10] <fabbione> debianist: no need to panic
[10:11] <fabbione> pitti and mdz are very careful about security status
[10:13] <HrdwrBoB> cef: yeah, the cow trampoline one is cool, though kim wanted other animals
[10:24] <cef> erm, wtf? I just wget fetched the iso, and it's vanished!
[10:25] <debianist> cef : use rsync
[10:25] <cef> grrr. fuck.. I think the firefox download manager deleted the file on me.. argh!
[10:25] <cef> debianist: once I have an image, I will. at the moment, I don't
[10:25] <HrdwrBoB> rsync++
[10:25] <HrdwrBoB> cef: I have sounder 8 here
[10:26] <cef> rsync chews big when you've not got an original
[10:26] <cef> HrdwrBoB: yeah yeah.. I gave daniels my only cd, and then the iso got corrupted
[10:26] <fabbione> cef: rsync will fix the iso
[10:26] <HrdwrBoB> ah
[10:27] <fabbione> no need to panic
[10:27] <cef> fabbione: rsync won't bring back the directory inode
[10:27] <fabbione> oh in that case no
[10:28] <cef> well the transfer rate has improved anyway..
[10:47] <doko> fabbione: how much will rsync save for the iso transfer assuming you already have yesterday's iso?
[10:49] <HrdwrBoB> doko: usually over 50%
[11:01] <HrdwrBoB> doko: actually, much more
[11:01] <HrdwrBoB> it seems
[11:05] <Kamion> jdub: ?
[11:06] <doko> Hrdwr_BoB: next time, currently at 62%
[11:13] <fabbione> doko: quite a lot
[11:14] <fabbione> morning Kamion 
[11:49] <cef> hrm that's annoying..
[11:51] <cef> hrm.. never mind
[11:58] <debianist> mdz : around?
[12:10] <debianist> morning pitti
[12:22] <pitti> debianist: hi!
[12:22] <debianist> pitti : hey how you been?
[12:23] <debianist> pitti : i have been advancing slowly since we last talked, i had some outter virtual matters i had to attend to, but i AM advancing. mdz helped alot :) on your absence..
[12:24] <thom> mdz: ack
[12:25] <thom> Kamion: fwiw, gnome-volume-manager kills itself when hal goes away
[12:25] <thom> which is fucken stupid
[12:25] <thom> so if hal'd been upgraded, you won't necessarily get popping-up-window love
[12:27] <pitti> thom: Ah, I already noticed that gvm killed itself, but never found out the cause of it...
[12:27] <Mithrandir> thom: kills itself, or falss over?
[12:27] <Mithrandir> falls, even
[12:27] <debianist> pitti : the bugzilla 2002 DSA is applied, however there are more bugs there (see #1611) justdave may be on the way to fix those
[12:28] <thom> Mithrandir: kills itself
[12:28] <thom> (it exits cleanly)
[12:28] <debianist> pitti : oops wrong bug#
[12:28] <debianist> pitti : sedc
[12:29] <pitti> debianist: sedc???
[12:29] <thom> (can you tell i spent too long with hal/g-v-m the last few days?)
[12:29] <pitti> thom: I would have never imagined :-)
[12:29] <debianist> pitti : #1161
[12:30] <debianist> pitti : that was sec :)
[12:30] <Mithrandir> thom: heh.
[12:30] <Mithrandir> thom: that's friggin stupid
[12:30] <debianist> pitti : havn't slept much (4 hours, however too much) so i'm little shakey at the kbd
[12:30] <debianist> ;-)
[12:30] <pitti> debianist: dude, it's Sunday!
[12:31] <Kamion> thom: no, it's hald segfaulting, haven't investigated yet
[12:31] <debianist> pitti : so what ? ;)
[12:32] <pitti> debianist: at least on Sundays it should be a human right to sleep 8 hours :-)
[12:32] <pitti> debianist: I looked at #1161.
[12:32] <debianist> pitti : in Israel sunday is a regular day as all days ;)
[12:32] <debianist> pitti : a work day
[12:32] <Mithrandir> you're weird. ;)
[12:32] <pitti> debianist: so far I ignored all bugzilla security bugs since it is not in Warty
[12:33] <debianist> pitti : oh right, mdz told me it's not main.
[12:34] <debianist> pitti : ok, so gemme some sight about DSA-204-1, it seems fixed - however the DSA says it still not fixed on sid. changlog shows that version, however the fix is not mentioned.
[12:34] <pitti> debianist: nevertheless, if the sarge/sid version is vulnerable, we should tell its maintainer about
[12:34] <debianist> pitti : ofcourse. i am documenting it, i even found a dsa which has been fixed in sid, but still the dsa has not been updated.
[12:35] <debianist> pitti : mdz told me there would a db for that stuff, to be forwarded back at debian
[12:37] <pitti> debianist: regarding DSA-204-1: CAN-2002-1281 and CAN-2002-1282 have been fixed in KDE 3.0.5
[12:37] <pitti> debianist: so it's history :-)
[12:38] <debianist> pitti : would you mind sending me the link?
[12:38] <debianist> pitti : unless it's only on the changlog
[12:39] <pitti> debianist: just follow the references from the CVE
[12:39] <debianist> pitti : k
[12:40] <pitti> debianist: http://www.kde.org/info/security/advisory-20021111-1.txt
[12:41] <pitti> debianist: regarding DSA-219 (which you asked by mail): its not contained in Warty, AFAICS
[12:41] <debianist> pitti : thanks
[12:42] <pitti> debianist: generally: such security bugs should always be fixed upstream, so Debian cannot forget to apply a patch in future versions
[12:43] <pitti> debianist: BTW, don't you have a free day in a week in Israel?
[12:43] <Kamion> yarrrrr
[12:43] <Kamion> today's CD image is broken
[12:44] <debianist> pitti : we had it, it's basically only saturday, and friday is half day free
[12:44] <debianist> pitti : according to the pacakge list on the warty (universal/net) we have dhcpcd
[12:44] <debianist> pitti : 1:1.3.22pl4-13
[12:46] <pitti> debianist: universe is not Warty
[12:46] <pitti> debianist: universe is basically Debian
[12:47] <pitti> debianist: or, rather, all packages that Debian additionally has over Warty
[12:47] <debianist> pitti : but people can aptitude it, can't they?
[12:48] <pitti> debianist: of course
[12:48] <pitti> debianist: nobody should stop them to install Debian packages
[12:48] <pitti> debianist: we just don't support the universe
[12:48] <debianist> Kamion : darn, i wanted to test on the 8200 inspiron ;-)
[12:48] <debianist> pitti : ok, so i can disregard everything in universe/* ?
[12:48] <Mithrandir> Kamion: are you making .2 for today, then?
[12:48] <pitti> Guys, I have to care for my gf a little. Work will continue tomorrow, happy Sunday!
[12:48] <pitti> debianist: of course
[12:49] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I need to get a new debian-installer build first; kernels got out of sync
[12:49] <Kamion> debianist: use 20040911 then
[12:49] <pitti> debianist: if you find something that affects Debian, it would be nice if you submitted an RC bug to Debian
[12:49] <pitti> debianist: but the Warty packages have high priority
[12:49] <pitti> debianist: thanks for your work!
[12:49] <pitti> debianist: see you.
[12:49] <debianist> pitti : yeah, i wanna finsih warty first
[12:49] <debianist> pitti : see ya buddy, take care!
[12:50] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ook :/
[01:04] <debianist> printing does not work out of the box from epiphany
[01:04] <debianist> :(
[01:04] <debianist> why does it use lpr?
[01:05] <debianist> aren't we supposed to be suing CUPS?
[01:07] <Riff> this would be an epiphany limitation I suspect
[01:07] <Riff> don't forget they are wrapping mozilla
[01:08] <doko> hmm, trying to install from the 20040912 CD, my network card isn't detected. anybody else seeing this?
[01:09] <Kamion> doko: topic
[01:09] <thom> Kamion: hrm, let me look
[01:10] <Kamion> doko: sorry, kernel versions got desynced, which is why you're seeing that
[01:10] <Kamion> I've uploaded a fix but it'll take a while to percolate through the buildd/archive/cdimage chain
[01:11] <doko> seems I'm unlucky with testing ;)
[01:12] <Kamion> if it's in the archive before tomorrow morning then I'll do a manual CD build
[01:13] <thom> Kamion: where/when does hal segfault?
[01:14] <Kamion> thom: it was in the middle of walking /sys, had just reached wlan0/beacon or something like that
[01:14] <thom> and it's just started doing it? 
[01:15] <Kamion> no, seemed to have been at it for some time
[01:15] <Kamion> hold on, just put a wireless card in that box so I can get the source and debug it locally
[01:15] <thom> oh, right
[01:15] <thom> ok, that makes me less scared :-)
[01:15] <Kamion> less scared?
[01:16] <Kamion> oh, I misunderstood your question
[01:16] <Kamion> I don't know whether it's just started doing it because I've only just got the USB wireless device in question
[01:16] <thom> (less scared it was my upload of hal that broke it)
[01:16] <Kamion> I could binary-chop over CD images, but that's no fun :-)
[01:17] <Mithrandir> thom: I'm sure we can find an excuse to blame you anyhow.
[01:17] <debianist> anybody know where can I grab pure text version of the DSAs ?
[01:17] <thom> Mithrandir: i'm sure
[01:18] <debianist> (thinking of hacking a script to tell me which DSAs are warty main, and which not)
[01:58] <HrdwrBoB> oh poo
[01:58] <HrdwrBoB> I come home to fresh ubuntu images to be informed their broken
[02:32] <j1> 'evening all.
[02:36] <Mithrandir> hiya
[02:37] <debianist> hey Mithrandir
[02:39] <carlos> Kamion: better here
[02:39] <carlos> Kamion: I'm installing ubuntu in my imac
[02:39] <carlos> and I had some problems with the installer
[02:39] <carlos> but I filled already bug reports about them
[02:40] <carlos> Kamion: #1170 && #1171
[02:40] <Kamion> any that are assigned to me are already on my to-do list; any that aren't, aren't :)
[02:40] <cef> just installing the last daily now..
[02:40] <Kamion> cef: you mean previous rather than current?
[02:40] <carlos> Kamion: you have them assigned to you :-)
[02:41] <cef> Kamion: no current
[02:42] <Kamion> cef: it's broken ...
[02:42] <cef> Kamion: yeah just noticed.. no network drivers in the kernel
[02:42] <Kamion> cef: they're there, but the kernel versions are out of sync
[02:43] <Kamion> carlos: then no need to tell me, I get mailed :)
[02:43] <carlos> Kamion: I decided to fill them after I realized you were not online :-)
[02:43] <Kamion> (p.s. "file" not "fill" ...)
[02:43] <cef> Kamion: hrm.. just looked in /lib/modules/2.6.8.1-1-386/kernel/drivers/ and there is no net subdir on the cd
[02:44] <carlos> Kamion: ok, thanks
[02:44] <Kamion> carlos: yeah, was just temporarily distracted
[02:44] <Kamion> cef: the drivers are on the CD, in pool/main/l/linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6/, but the kernel versions don't match the running kernel
[02:44] <Kamion> cef: I've already uploaded a fix for this
[02:44] <Kamion> yep, plug in USB stick, hal go foom
[02:45] <cef> Kamion: cool
[02:45] <debianist> does ubuntu support (out of the box, ofcourse) standby mode on APM comliant systems?
[02:46] <debianist> Kamion : do we have bind in warty? (couldn't find on the package lists)
[02:47] <Kamion>      bind9 | 1:9.2.3+9.2.4-rc5-1 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[02:47] <cef> Kamion: thnink there'll be a rebuild of the image with that fixed?
[02:47] <debianist> hmmm. k, thanks
[02:47] <Kamion> cef: yes, but I have to wait for it to churn through the buildds and the archive and then it has to be manually accepted by elmo because debian-installer uploads are weird
[02:48] <cef> fair enuff
[02:48] <Kamion> takes a while :-/
[02:51] <cef> just noticed that lspci isn't available during the install process
[02:51] <Kamion> yes, I've always been annoyed by that
[02:51] <Kamion> probably need to implement it in busybox or something
[02:51] <cef> and since /proc/pci is gone, it makes it hard to see just what hardware is in there if you do get asked about drivers
[02:52] <Kamion> there's /proc/bus/pci/devices, but its format is unhelpful
[02:52] <cef> yeah
[02:52] <debianist> Kamion : bind9 is different from bind ?
[02:52] <Kamion> debianist: version 9
[02:52] <Kamion> debianist: the bind package in Debian is version 8
[02:53] <debianist> Kamion : that's why it's only "bind" on p.d.o ?
[02:53] <Kamion> debianist: (you could use 'apt-cache show bind9', you know ...)
[02:53] <doko> on a new install with yesterday's CD, /dev/dsp is missing (rhythmbox complains)
[02:53] <Kamion> doko: that's probably bug #1166
[02:53] <debianist> Kamion : (k)
[02:54] <debianist> doko : same here
[02:54] <Kamion> cef: the current logo's ugly, I know; I'll try to improve it before preview release
[02:54] <Kamion> but I think we have to go with the Ubuntu logo in some form :)
[02:54] <debianist> doko : rythmbox complaint..
[02:55] <cef> Kamion: I don't have that much problem with it.. but it'd look nicer imho if there was more on the page.. eg: perhaps zebra stripes in a bar across the bottom or something.. meh.. I'm no graphic person anyway
[02:55] <Kamion> nor am I
[02:56] <Kamion> I hacked that up myself by potracing a JPEG
[03:04] <jdub> Kamion: if the SVGs go up in a reasonable timeframe, i might have a play with the logo against the stripes
[03:04] <jdub> might be unofficial, but it might be cool ;)
[03:04] <jdub> 'nacht alles!
[03:06] <debianist> Kamion : bind8 is in univ/net for backward compatibilty?
[03:12] <j1> dudes, is there an easy way to get the nvidia drivers onto this?
[03:19] <Kamion> debianist: *everything* in Debian is in universe, assuming it built
[03:20] <Kamion> debianist: we exercise essentially no quality control there
[03:21] <elmo> j1: the nvidia drivers should be in 'restricted', if you add that as a component to your sources.list and try installing it
[03:22] <elmo> kamion: d-i 12's b-d's are broken I think
[03:22] <elmo> kamion: it's dep-waiting on pcmcia-storage-modules-2.6.8.1-1-386-di
[03:22] <j1> elmo: awesome. Thanks!
[03:24] <elmo> kamion: or, hmm, maybe this is lamont's evil daily auto-build stuff breaking...
[03:26] <j1> apologies for the dumb qns, but: what are the ubuntu equivalents of 'service' and 'ntsysv'? Clicky or cmd-line, I'm not fussed.
[03:27] <elmo> kamion: yeah it is, never mind
[03:32] <Keybuk> j1: the services you have installed start and stop automatically
[03:34] <Keybuk> otherwise you can modify the symlinks in /etc/rc2.d yourself
[03:35] <j1> Keybuk: what if I want to disable an installed service? Does that mean I have to uninstall it?
[03:35] <Keybuk> no, just remove the symlink
[03:36] <Keybuk> no services listen by default though, so I don't think theres any you'd need to disable ?
[03:38] <j1> Keybuk: I was asking because I wanted to start sshd (which probably means I need to install it). I used to edit symlinks by hand but got told off for it once because ntsysv (or chkconfig) is meant to do that and it will get it right. I just assumed there would be a similar tool.
[03:39] <Keybuk> install openssh-server -- that'll start automatically then
[03:39] <j1> Keybuk: yep, ok.
[03:39] <Keybuk> yeah, Debian tends more towards installed services start
[03:39] <Keybuk> there is a tool to do it, but it's not exactly friendly, so we're not shipping with it
[03:40] <Keybuk> you need to know what you're doing to use it, so you may as well just move the symlinks around
[03:40] <j1> Keybuk: what is the tool called?
[03:40] <Keybuk> it's part of gnome-system-tools I think
[03:40] <Keybuk> but it's not in our package of it
[03:40] <j1> ok. Fair enough.
[03:55] <debianist> just had my network hung up..strange. everything was fine with dhcp server and phy devs, bug?
[03:55] <debianist> gaim crashed...
[04:18] <lamont> elmo: how so>
[04:18] <lamont> ?
[04:19] <Kamion> hmm, hal doesn't really like USB sticks with no partitions
[04:23] <lamont> Kamion: d-i woes with the buildd's resolved?
[04:24] <Mithrandir> HcE: you don't and amd64, you don't get to participate
[04:24] <Mithrandir> :P
[04:24] <Mithrandir> uhm
[04:25] <Mithrandir> insert a "have" and replace and with an.
[04:25] <HcE> Mithrandir: you don't make sence :P
[04:25] <Mithrandir> you can't spell, so that's ok
[04:25] <Kamion> lamont: dunno yet
[04:25] <Kamion> lamont: yes, they seem to be
[04:26] <HcE> Mithrandir: if you can cough up 145k before inovation Norway can, I can by a couple of my planned AMD64 systems
[04:27] <lamont> Kamion: good - I'll get with elmo and see if he changed anything when I get back home.
[04:27] <Mithrandir> HcE: you should be careful about what you wish for. ;)
[04:27] <elmo> lamont: the daily build was trying to use old linux-source, and put it in auto-dep-wait on the removed binaries.. I just forcibly gave it back for all arches
[04:28] <Mithrandir> elmo: your "please make ooo-amd64 a non-native package" advice just saved me a 200MB upload.
[04:28] <elmo> hehe
[04:28] <Mithrandir> I depended on ia32-libs, not ia32-libs-openoffice.org
[04:29] <Mithrandir> which blew up, of course.
[04:31] <lamont> elmo: I really need a central machine or two so that I can add some more smarts to the auto-dep-waiter... :-(
[04:34] <elmo> mm, what's postfix equiv of 'exim -M<msgid>' again?
[04:38] <Mithrandir> sendmail -qR $site is the closest you get
[04:38] <Mithrandir> it seems
[04:39] <elmo> yeah, I couldn't find anything better either.. ok, thanks
[04:40] <elmo> openoffice.org-bin_1.1.2-2ubuntu4-2_amd64.deb
[04:40] <elmo>   to pool/main/o/openoffice.org-amd64/openoffice.org-bin_1.1.2-2ubuntu4-2_amd64.deb
[04:40] <elmo> woo
[04:40] <Mithrandir> accepted now? :)
[04:41] <elmo> yeah, I'm forcing it through now - I want to see an empty "broken depends" output from britney for warty, damn it :)
[04:41] <Mithrandir> :)
[04:42] <Mithrandir> it should already be empty, shouldn't it?  -1 was cacepted, but broken
[04:42] <Mithrandir> accepted, even
[04:42] <elmo> oh, I'm not sure, I haven't checked it until now.. in any event, it is empty. yay
[04:43] <Kamion> aha, suddenly a load of old ACCEPTED mail arrives ...
[04:43] <elmo> yeah, apparently when I said I unbroke canonical.com mail from within the LAN, I missed jackass
[04:44] <Kamion> aargh, I uploaded netcfg 1.01ubuntu7, didn't get the REJECTED mail about me having clashed with a version number mdz had used, and then uploaded netcfg 1.01ubuntu8 still unaware of the clash
[04:44] <elmo> sorry :(
[04:46] <Kamion> ah well, fortunately an easy merge
[04:49] <daniels> fabbione: sup?
[04:50] <daniels> hm. unplug usb mass storage, plug it straight back in, watch udev fail to create the device.
[04:59] <daniels> mako: ping?
[05:16] <pitti> Hi again
[05:19] <Kamion> afternoon
[05:42] <fabbione> hey guys
[05:42] <fabbione> daniels: nm.. i have tried to merge the nv driver from xorg but it's a real pain
[05:42] <fabbione> daniels: xaa and other stuff needs backporting too
[05:59] <Kamion> ok, that's better
[06:34] <Kamion> carlos: looking at your keymap bug now, it's possible it won't show up on i386 though
[06:34] <Kamion> (which may help narrow it down ... I'm rsyncing the current powerpc ISO too)
[06:35] <Kamion> "Instalando el ncleo..." I like the translation of "kernel"
[06:36] <carlos> Kamion: :-)
[06:37] <carlos> Kamion: if you need any help, I have the machine ready to reinstall. In fact I was starting a MacOSX installation
[06:37] <Kamion> with any luck I'll be able to reproduce it here
[06:37] <Kamion> thanks, though, I'll give you a shout if it doesn't show up
[06:38] <Kamion> aargh - I know it's kind of necessary, but I hate the sort of test where I inherently have to use a keymap I don't know :(
[06:39] <carlos> Kamion: you should remember mine :-P, it's the funny one where you don't find any key you need 
[06:39] <carlos> X-)
[06:39] <Kamion> finding -, /, \, * is particularly aggravating
[06:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: isn't -fPIC required on PPC?
[06:40] <carlos> Well, I'm using the keypad ones because the keymap is wrong here
[06:41] <sto> carlos: hi carlos
[06:42] <carlos> sto: hey!!
[06:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I don't remember, to tell you the truth
[06:42] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:42] <sto> carlos: which bug are you talking about? maybe ubuntu's keymap not working OK on a PowerBook?
[06:43] <carlos> sto: yes, that one
[06:43] <Kamion> uh
[06:43] <Kamion>                                  'powerpc/amiga' => [ 'amiga' ] , # apus
[06:43] <Kamion>                                  'powerpc/chrp' => [ 'pc', 'mac' ] ,
[06:43] <Kamion>                                  'powerpc/mac' => [ 'pc' ] ,
[06:43] <Kamion>                                  'powerpc/prep' => [ 'pc' ] ,
[06:43] <Kamion> is it just me, or does that seem bizarre?
[06:43] <Mithrandir> Kamion: kbd-wise?
[06:44] <Mithrandir> the ppc/mac => [ 'pc' ]  seems weird
[06:44] <carlos> Kamion: I said some time ago, that new powerpc machines from apple need 'pc' keyboards
[06:44] <carlos> I don't remember who but I was looking at it about two years ago and a ppc developer told me that it's normal
[06:45] <carlos> sto: How is going the tests?, do you like ubuntu?
[06:45] <sto> carlos: I've re-arranged my PowerBook to try the S8 CD
[06:46] <Kamion> carlos: hmm, ok
[06:46] <sto> carlos: Yes, looks nice, but I have the same problem with the Keyboard
[06:46] <Kamion> carlos: powerpc/mac is not just new machines though
[06:46] <sto> carlos: I did the installation in Catalan
[06:46] <Kamion> it's e.g. oldworld powermacs too
[06:46] <carlos> Kamion: perhaps old ones also work with pc keymaps, I don't know
[06:46] <carlos> I only have newworld macs
[06:47] <Kamion> oh, maybe the mac keymaps are ADB
[06:47] <Kamion> that's a possibility, in which case you'd be right, although the 'mac' entry should disappear from chrp too in that case
[06:47] <carlos> sto: please add any additional information here: https://bugzilla.no-name-yet.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1171
[06:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure?  What about those powermax (or what they were named) macos-compatible boxes?
[06:48] <Mithrandir> or don't we care about that old machines?
[06:48] <Kamion> carlos: how do I distinguish the keymaps?
[06:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the ADB versus Linux keymap is a kernel thing, not machine-dependent
[06:48] <sto> carlos: Ok, I just opened bugzilla to find it ;)
[06:48] <carlos> Kamion: one works and the other one does not :-P
[06:48] <carlos> Kamion: are you using a powerbook?
[06:48] <Kamion> Mithrandir: http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/keycodes
[06:48] <Kamion> carlos: not right now but I will be once it finishes rsyncing
[06:49] <carlos> ok
[06:49] <Kamion> carlos: I mean, how would I distinguish between Brazilian and Spanish?
[06:49] <carlos> the correct spanish keyboard
[06:49] <Kamion> and which keys don't work?
[06:49] <carlos> should show the @ symbol with Fn + alt + 2
[06:50] <carlos> and the / symbol with Shift + 7
[06:50] <carlos> let me boot the imac and I will tell you what I'm getting now...
[06:50] <Kamion> ok, it probably isn't Brazilian then since I believe that has / on shift-7 too
[06:51] <Kamion> hm, no, &
[06:51] <carlos> Kamion: I'm not sure if it's brazilian, it was only a gues from what I saw with dpkg-reconfigure console-data
[06:52] <carlos> hmm, in fact.. perhaps it's spanish, but not the right one
[06:52] <carlos> because I saw the  char
[06:53] <carlos> and I'm not sure if that char exists in portuguese
[06:53] <carlos> Kamion: how could I see the keymap I have?
[06:55] <mdz> morning
[06:55] <mdz> thom: still here?
[06:55] <Kamion> carlos: um, kinda trying to figure that out at the moment, console-data is extremely odd
[06:55] <carlos> ok
[07:01] <mdz> Kamion: does sounder 8 have the apt-setup which add the ftp.nny.com sources to sources.list?  or was that added after?
[07:05] <Kamion> mdz: sounder 8 has it
[07:05] <mdz> Kamion: thanks
[07:13] <Kamion> carlos: look in /var/log/debian-installer/cdebconf/questions.dat and search for debian-installer/keymap
[07:13] <carlos> ok
[07:14] <carlos> Name: debian-installer/keymap
[07:14] <carlos> Template: debian-installer/keymap
[07:14] <carlos> Value: mac-usb-es
[07:14] <carlos> Owners: d-i
[07:14] <carlos> Kamion: then it's spanish, but it's not my keyboard 
[07:14] <Kamion> it probably is; ignore the usb bit
[07:15] <carlos> Kamion: the problem is that it's mac, and that keyboad does not work
[07:15] <Kamion> mac-usb-* is the right keymap for powerbooks generally
[07:16] <carlos> it does not work with the powerbook nor with the apple's keyboard pro (USB)
[07:16] <carlos> then we should fix the spanish keymap
[07:17] <Kamion> ok, give me a few minutes, I want to try some things out here to make sure it's really installing the keymap it thinks it's installing
[07:18] <carlos> ok
[07:23] <sto> carlos: I don't have the bugzilla account open, anyway is the same thing, I installed on a PowerBook G4 using Catalan and the Keyboard is wrong
[07:23] <sto> carlos: It uses the es map
[07:25] <carlos> sto: Catalan has its own keymap?
[07:29] <sto> carlos: no, I think it uses the spanish one
[07:29] <sto> carlos: at least in debian I'm using it and works OK
[07:30] <carlos> ok, then you have the same problem, which keymap do you use with Debian?
[07:31] <sto> The same as you, it seems:
[07:31] <sto> Name: debian-installer/keymap
[07:31] <sto> Template: debian-installer/keymap
[07:31] <sto> Value: mac-usb-es
[07:31] <sto> Owners: d-i
[07:32] <sto> (this is from my Debian Sid installation)
[07:32] <Kamion> carlos: hm, yes, the keymap does seem pretty broken
[07:32] <carlos> Kamion: With Debian (and warty) the only keyboard that works for me is qwerty/Spanish/Standard/CP850
[07:33] <carlos> sto: but you did not changed it after the installation? the Debian one is also broken for me
[07:33] <Kamion> carlos: does 'sudo loadkeys es' get you something useful?
[07:33] <Kamion> carlos: or do you need 'sudo loadkeys es-cp850'?
[07:33] <carlos> Kamion: yes, it works now
[07:33] <Kamion> is that right for all keys?
[07:33] <carlos> the first one works
[07:34] <carlos> let me check
[07:34] <carlos> Kamion: yes, seems like all keys work now
[07:36] <carlos> well, I'm not able to type the chars: 
[07:36] <sto> carlos: I think I left it as it was ... but I installed with a d-i beta
[07:36] <carlos> but that's not a big problem
[07:36] <Kamion> where are those on the keyboard?
[07:36] <Kamion> and does 'sudo loadkeys es-cp850' mean you can type them?
[07:36] <carlos> AltGr + z and AltGr + x
[07:37] <Kamion> anything else on AltGr+<letter key>?
[07:37] <carlos> Kamion: no, same problem. But as I said, it's not a big problem. They are not drawed into the keyboard and I think are a linux specific mapping
[07:38] <carlos> Kamion: the other AltGr + letter key works @#~ 
[07:38] <Kamion> which letters are those?
[07:38] <Kamion> AltGr + e/c should be euro/cent as well I think
[07:38] <carlos> AltGr + 1 2 3 e c
[07:39] <carlos> yes, they work
[07:39] <Kamion> 1 looks like it should be | in es.kmap
[07:39] <Kamion> AltGr+1 that is
[07:39] <carlos> yes
[07:39] <carlos> and the \ char is in the key below the Esc key
[07:40] <carlos> Kamion: do you need to know all chars?
[07:41] <Kamion> nope
[07:42] <Kamion> carlos: could you file a bug on console-data in Debian about this, saying that it should use es.kmap on PowerMacs as well as PCs?
[07:43] <carlos> sure
[07:43] <Kamion> I'll fix it in warty
[07:43] <carlos> Kamion: thank you
[07:46] <carlos> Kamion: seems like it's not only a problem with Spanish but I'm not sure if it's ppc related http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=249875
[07:47] <Kamion> that looks quite different to me
[07:49] <carlos> ok
[07:50] <Kamion> carlos: hm, wait, not sure this is console-data's fault actually
[07:52] <fabbione> carlos
[07:53] <fabbione> carlos: which version of X are you using?
[07:53] <carlos> fabbione: latest one in warty. I did a fresh installation
[07:53] <Kamion> the Spanish keymap is wrong in the first stage too
[07:53] <fabbione> carlos: from daily or sounder?
[07:53] <fabbione> carlos: a net install?
[07:53] <carlos> fabbione: daily from yesterday
[07:54] <fabbione> carlos: ok
[07:54] <carlos> fabbione: wait a second and I will tell you the version (booting)
[07:54] <fabbione> carlos: ok
[07:54] <carlos> fabbione: the keyboad problem I have in text mode is also present with XFree
[07:54] <fabbione> carlos: i didn't read the backlog on irc...
[07:54] <fabbione> carlos: i was only checking "my bugs"
[07:55] <carlos> don't worry, I will file a bug about it later
[07:55] <carlos> fabbione: 4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu15
[07:55] <fabbione> HMMMMM
[07:56] <fabbione> according to documentation the fbdevice is safe to use!
[07:56] <fabbione> and if it's not there it is not used
[07:56] <fabbione> carlos: logout from X and on console do: xresprobe nv
[07:56] <fabbione> (be sure to have xresprobe 0.4.3 or higher)
[07:57] <carlos> id: color LCD
[07:57] <carlos> res: 1024x768@60
[07:57] <carlos> freq:
[07:57] <fabbione> @60 ???
[07:57] <carlos> I have 0.4.3
[07:57] <fabbione> DANIELS!
[07:57] <carlos> fabbione: yes, and it's also present in the configuration file
[07:58] <fabbione> it should NOT report @60!
[07:58] <carlos> the @60
[07:58] <fabbione> that's why it doesn't work
[07:58] <fabbione> xresprobe has been broken
[07:58] <carlos> then, If I remove it from the configuration file, it should work again?
[07:59] <fabbione> carlos: just a second...
[08:00] <carlos> ok
[08:00] <fabbione> carlos: can you put your X config somewhere on the web so i can tell you what to check?
[08:00] <carlos> fabbione: you have it attached to the bug report
[08:01] <fabbione> oh right
[08:02] <fabbione> carlos: remove all the @60 from Modes
[08:02] <fabbione> carlos: sorry.. starting from scratch
[08:02] <carlos> ok
[08:02] <fabbione> using the same config as you attached to the bug report
[08:02] <fabbione> the "autodetected" one
[08:02] <carlos> si the one I have
[08:02] <carlos> I'm not working from that machine
[08:03] <fabbione> remove all the @60
[08:03] <carlos> at this moment the X server does not work
[08:03] <carlos> fabbione: done, same problem, it does not starts
[08:03] <fabbione> HorizSync 28-33 -> HorizSync 28-50
[08:03] <carlos> the fb problem
[08:03] <fabbione> carlos: yes.. just a second :-)
[08:04] <fabbione> ok .. remove the FB entry
[08:04] <fabbione> with that sync you should be able to get 1024x768
[08:04] <carlos> fabbione: fixed
[08:04] <carlos> fabbione: thank you
[08:05] <fabbione> carlos: ok.. to summarize
[08:05] <carlos> do you need any log file with this configuration?
[08:05] <fabbione> the frequency has been miscalculated because xresprobe output has been changed with no warnings
[08:06] <fabbione> the frequency i gave you now is the same that the autoconfig would have used if xresprobe was working
[08:06] <carlos> ok
[08:06] <fabbione> so the only problem now is to understand why the FBDev stuff is crancked
[08:06] <fabbione> no thanks.. i don't need the log
[08:06] <carlos> fabbione: do you want acces to the iMac?
[08:07] <fabbione> carlos: no thanks :-)
[08:07] <fabbione> carlos
[08:07] <carlos> fabbione: anything I could do to help you with the FBDev problem?
[08:07] <fabbione> carlos: i will ask in future if i will need
[08:07] <carlos> ok
[08:07] <fabbione> but thanks for the offer
[08:07] <fabbione> well i guess i will have to check again the script that enables it
[08:08] <fabbione> i remember there is a specific test for it
[08:08] <fabbione> perhaps the code is not fully functional
[08:08] <carlos> ok
[08:08] <fabbione> but i will come back to you on that if i have problems to figure out myself
[08:08] <fabbione> be sure about it :-)
[08:08] <carlos> :-)
[08:08] <carlos> fabbione: a cosmetic bug...
[08:09] <carlos> fabbione: I see my screen pink when X starts (until I see the normal X background)
[08:09] <fabbione> carlos: otherwise.. if you have time.. check /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xfree86.config
[08:09] <carlos> and when the X server tries to turn off the display
[08:09] <fabbione> carlos: search fro FBDEV
[08:09] <Kamion> carlos: hm, file it against kbd-chooser to start with; I'm not sure it's actually there, but there's some complicated interaction between it and console-keymaps-* going on
[08:09] <fabbione> carlos: and try to run the same routine manually and see where it fails
[08:10] <fabbione> carlos: hmmm i am not sure i can do much about the pink
[08:10] <carlos> Kamion: ok
[08:10] <fabbione> carlos: probably it's just a driver cosmetic bug...
[08:10] <fabbione> i need to go for dinner now
[08:10] <fabbione> carlos: thanks a lot for your detailed report
[08:10] <carlos> fabbione: ok, thank you
[08:10] <fabbione> later guys
[08:10] <carlos> later
[08:21] <thom> mdz: wasn't, am now
[08:32] <carlos> jdub: ping
[08:39] <Kamion> hey, that partition-name-changing bug might be easy
[08:39] <carlos> Kamion: you know why it fails?
[08:39] <Kamion> yep
[08:39] <Kamion> combination of two, possibly three reasons
[08:39] <lucas_> hi
[08:40] <carlos> Kamion: it's funny that we can change the names with the installer but the normal fdisk does not let you change it :-P (off topic)
[08:40] <Kamion> mac-fdisk probably will?
[08:40] <Kamion> don't remember
[08:40] <carlos> Kamion: I think the fdisk in ppc is by default mac-fdisk
[08:40] <Kamion> the name-changing feature was obviously never tested upstream
[08:41] <carlos> Kamion: yes, fdisk is a symbolic link to mac-fdisk
[08:42] <Kamion> mac-fdisk is a bit crap really
[08:43] <Kamion> ok, fixed two out of the three reasons, but I can still make it hang by entering an empty name
[08:45] <elmo> I'm about to make some changes to the archive - apt-get make break
[08:49] <elmo> kamion: what do you want the CD Images available on?
[08:49] <Kamion> EPARSE?
[08:50] <elmo> kamion: should there be a cdimage.$HOTNAME.$TLD available?
[08:51] <carlos> Kamion: the hang I have is before I get any dialog to type the name
[08:52] <Kamion> elmo: oh, yes please
[08:53] <Kamion> carlos: yes, I know, already debugged and fixed
[08:54] <elmo> can anyone think of a better alternative rather than/in addition to ftp.$HOSTNAME.$TLD ?
[08:54] <elmo> the problem with archive.$H.$T is it clashes with Debian's usage
[08:55] <lamont> repository.$H.$T?
[08:55] <carlos> Kamion: ok, thanks
[08:55] <Kamion> pretty long ...
[08:55] <Clint> sounds like SCM
[08:55] <lamont> apt-get.$H.$T?
[08:55] <Kamion> packages? also clashes though
[08:55] <Clint> debs
[08:56] <Kamion> but arguably less badly - you could put something like packages.debian.org up on the same domain quite reasonably
[08:56] <lamont> bits.$H.$T?
[08:57] <lamont> warez.$H.$T? :-)
[08:58] <Kamion> traditionally, the last should be an A record to 127.0.0.1 :-)
[08:58] <lamont> AAAA ::1
[08:59] <lamont> or maybe that's just really 'leet warezkiddies
[09:01] <Clint> Is AAAA more 'leet than A6?
[09:02] <Kamion> A6 is dead I thought
[09:02] <elmo> hmm.. I still like archive best.. damn Guy Maor or whoever chose that name for it's use in Debian
[09:02] <Clint> doesn't make it un-'leet
[09:03] <Clint> elmo: progeny does it, why not you?
[09:08] <elmo> true
[09:21] <mdz> thom: do you have an sk98lin nic?
[09:21] <elmo> gar.  hate decisions.
[09:21] <mdz> elmo: I prefer archive also
[09:22] <elmo> okay, we'll go with archive by default (but ftp will still be available)
[09:23] <mdz> do we really need a separate cdimage.$DOMAIN?
[09:23] <mdz> would that be to enable mirrors who carry packages or images, but not both?
[09:24] <Kamion> cdimage.$DOMAIN could be a useful web site
[09:25] <elmo> kamion: okay, archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu is up and running - what needs changed beyond base-config to make us use it by default?
[09:26] <Kamion> choose-mirror
[09:26] <elmo> mdz: they're in different top level dirs, not much difference there
[09:26] <Kamion> possibly one or two other things, I'll need to grep
[09:26] <Kamion> oh, debian-cd, obviously
[09:27] <Kamion> can we start using that immediately then?
[09:27] <elmo> yep
[09:28] <elmo> Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main Packages [463kB] 
[09:28] <elmo> etc.
[09:29] <mdz> elmo: security.ubuntu.com as well?
[09:29] <Kamion> "Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu." ooh
[09:30] <elmo> err, nope, that would make sense.
[09:30] <elmo> (fixing...)
[09:30] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/canonical/choose-mirror/choose-mirror-0.045ubuntu6>$ wcgrep ftp.no-name-yet.com | wc -l
[09:30] <Kamion> 84
[09:30] <Kamion> sob
[09:31] <elmo> ?? why so many?
[09:31] <Kamion> translations
[09:31] <Kamion> ./choose-mirror.c:278:  asprintf(&command, "wget -q http://ftp.no-name-yet-com/no-name-yet/dists/%s/Release -O - | grep ^Suite: | cut -d' ' -f 2", PREFERRED_DISTRIBUTION);
[09:31] <Kamion> aargh, spot the deliberate error
[09:32] <Kamion> fabbione: how did choose-mirror manage to work?
[09:32] <mdz> perl -pi.old -e 's,ftp.no-name-yet.com,archive.ubuntu.com,g; s,security.no-name-yet.com,security.ubuntu.com,g; s,/no-name-yet,/ubuntu,g;'
[09:32] <mdz> is what I've been using
[09:32] <elmo> okay, security works now too
[09:33] <mdz> elmo: should we have a security/universe?
[09:33] <elmo> mdz: I thought not, given that it's a lose/lose.  if we use it, people will assume universe is supported.   if we don't, (fewer) people will infer it's supported by the directories existing
[09:33] <elmo> but I can add it in if you want.. *shrug*
[09:34] <mdz> elmo: as I recall, Mark's feeling on the subject was that we would end up serving up community-provided security updates for universe, I think
[09:34] <mdz> maybe a question for sounder?
[09:35] <Kamion> elmo: Mirrors.masterlist in choose-mirror has your name and e-mail (@nocrew) as a contact address
[09:35] <elmo> mmph, right.. 
[09:35] <Kamion> elmo: is there some role address we should use instead?
[09:35] <elmo> kamion: ?? really? how krazy
[09:35] <lamont> fwiw, kaffe and sablevm also have binNMU's (warty i386)
[09:35] <Kamion> Fabio added it I think
[09:35] <elmo> kamion: hmm, blah, more decisions.. ftpmaster@ubuntu.com I guess..
[09:35] <elmo> or archive@ubuntu.com maybe...
[09:35] <mdz> archivemaster? ;-)
[09:36] <elmo> katie@ubuntu.com?  always amusing how many debian developers that fools
[09:36] <mdz> I was always surprised how much trouble testing-security caused in Debian
[09:36] <mdz> cut-and-paste syndrome, I guess
[09:36] <thom> mdz: no, i have an nforce3 board - sk98lin's are only on via amd64 mobos
[09:36] <Kamion> actually I could just delete it, I don't think it's needed for the master site
[09:37] <elmo> kamion: go for ftpmaster for now, I just realised it's on the new key
[09:37] <Kamion> it's useful as a registry of mirror contacts (which we're going to need eventually ...)
[09:37] <mdz> thom: ok, was hoping maybe you could help test the autodetection issue.  I have an nforce board as well
[09:37] <elmo> (if you need it)
[09:37] <elmo> so, I suppose I ought to add ftp support.. more possible short-term archive breakage coming up
[09:37] <thom> mdz: i'll make sure to get a via when i upgrade then :-)
[09:38] <elmo> that's one thing that puts me off AMD chips is the limited mobo choice - are Opterons generally still only available with via/nvidia chipsets?
[09:38] <Kamion> I've seen ATI
[09:40] <Kamion> oh, you said motherboard, not chipset
[09:40] <thom> elmo: yes.
[09:40] <Kamion> mine's an ABit motherboard and ATI graphics card, can't see a chipset indicated
[09:42] <justdave> Kamion: if I want to file a test bug with the existing unmodified reportbug, is there a package I can report against that nobody will yell at me for filing a test bug in?
[09:43] <Kamion> what, against Debian?
[09:43] <elmo> justdave: 'ed'
[09:43] <Kamion> use --debug? (check the man page first to make sure you have the version that just sends the mail to yourself)
[09:43] <justdave> hmm, that's a thought.
[09:44] <justdave> I could probably just ask people that have used it more than I have and remember what it asks, too :)
[09:44] <justdave> there's code in it for using a variety of MUAs and MTAs for delivering the mail
[09:44] <justdave> trying to figure out how it decides what to use if you don't pass command line arguments to change it
[09:45] <Kamion> /usr/sbin/sendmail I think
[09:45] <Kamion> (i.e. standard mail sending interface)
[09:45] <justdave> the man page says "built-in mailer" but "any MTA with a /usr/sbin/sendmail" is one of the choices you can set as an option
[09:45] <justdave> to me that implies it does SMTP directly or something
[09:45] <Kamion> Jesus, I thought choose-mirror was bad
[09:45] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/canonical/base-config/base-config-2.44ubuntu17>$ wcgrep no-name-yet | wc -l
[09:45] <Kamion> 308
[09:46] <thom> yow
[09:47] <Kamion> translations again
[09:48] <justdave> maybe I shouldn't worry about reportbug. :)  people who are likely to use it probably know how to set up their mailer. :)
[09:49] <justdave> bug-buddy on the other hand is going to be interesting, because it uses /usr/sbin/sendmail, and that's the only choice.
[09:50] <justdave> and the default install of postfix on warty isn't capable of sending mail from 80% of the cable/dsl/dialup connections in the US
[09:50] <elmo> 7.7G    /var/log/ftp/vsftpd.log
[09:50] <elmo> hmm
[09:50] <justdave> (without additional config)
[09:50] <mdz> aha
[09:50] <mdz> I think I have a lead on #1066
[09:50] <mdz> er, 1166
[09:50] <mdz> I bet alsa-base hasn't been installed yet when hotplug runs
[09:51] <mdz> yep
[09:51] <mdz> confirmed, it works fine on the second boot
[09:51] <mdz> Kamion: what do you think is the best way to handle that?
[09:52] <Kamion> just move alsa-base to Base?
[09:53] <mdz> that would pull in alsa-utils...anything else?
[09:53] <mdz> libasound2
[09:53] <Kamion> rerun hotplug maybe, ugh
[09:53] <mdz> re-running hotplug wouldn't help :-/
[09:53] <mdz> because the module is already loaded, I don't think the triggers would run
[09:54] <mdz> Kamion: if you're ok with the changes to base/debootstrap/whatever else, that's probably simplest
[09:55] <mdz> other options include moving the triggers into a different package, hackishly modprobing the oss modules from base-config...
[09:56] <Kamion> if you're happy with the size increase (bit over .5MB), it's easy to change even at this point
[09:56] <Kamion> hardcode the oss stuff into hotplug?
[09:57] <Kamion> or hw-detect, although that's probably too gross to contemplate
[09:57] <mdz> it'd probably be most appropriate in module-init-tools, if it's going to move
[09:57] <mdz> like /etc/modprobe.d/aliases
[09:59] <elmo> okay, all done, I think, including ftp support (mares'r'us)
[09:59] <Kamion> aargh, bloody gettext
[09:59] <mdz> alsa-base truly belongs in desktop, I think
[09:59] <Kamion> it's split "no-name-yet" across lines in several places
[10:00] <mdz> maybe alsa-base should check for this condition when it's installed, and load the modules
[10:01] <Kamion> mdz: module-init-tools or similar> agreed I think
[10:02] <mdz> Kamion: I'm leaning toward the alsa-base postinst solution, myself
[10:02] <mdz> if snd-pcm is loaded, load snd-pcm-oss; etc.
[10:04] <Kamion> on initial install only
[10:04] <Kamion> elmo: choose-mirror and base-config both updated
[10:04] <mdz> right
[10:04] <Kamion> base-config needed an update anyway since the Origin: in our Release files has changed
[10:05] <elmo> well that and it had a fatal typo ;-)
[10:08] <Kamion> hm?
[10:09] <mdz>         if [ -z "$2" ] ; then
[10:09] <mdz>                 for ossmod in pcm mixer seq; do
[10:09] <mdz>                         if lsmod | grep -qw "^snd.$ossmod"; then
[10:09] <mdz>                                 modprobe -q snd-$ossmod-oss
[10:09] <mdz>                         fi
[10:09] <mdz>                 done
[10:10] <mdz>         fi
[10:10] <mdz> Kamion: seem reasonable?
[10:10] <elmo> kamion: the no-name-yet-com thing you posted earlier - or was that something else?
[10:10] <Clint> mdz: why not grep for the actual string?
[10:11] <mdz> Clint: which actual string?
[10:11] <Clint> snd-$ossmod-oss instead of snd.$ossmod
[10:11] <Kamion> elmo: oh, that was choose-mirror
[10:11] <mdz> Clint: we only want to load snd-foo-oss if snd-foo is loaded
[10:11] <Kamion> elmo: turned out it just made it ask a question at priority critical instead of low
[10:12] <Clint> mdz: oh, then revise to "why . instead of -?"
[10:12] <Kamion> mdz: I'd stick \$ at the end of the grep
[10:12] <mdz> Clint: it's either . or [_-] 
[10:12] <Kamion> or whatever the terminator is, I guess it isn't actually at end-of-line, but just to avoid matching snd-$ossmod-oss itself
[10:12] <mdz> it's end-of-word
[10:13] <mdz> which is why I used -w
[10:13] <mdz> which is simpler than figuring out how to match the end of a word in whichever of the 50 regex variants grep uses
[10:13] <Clint> it's either \> or \b
[10:13] <Kamion> oh, -w, missed that
[10:13] <elmo> kamion: that base-config and choose-mirror are in the archive now, btw
[10:13] <Kamion> ok
[10:14] <Clint> \>
[10:14] <Kamion> elmo: good. I think I'll just let the CD generation happen tomorrow unless there's something particularly urgent
[10:14] <Clint> what's with the -/_ discrepancy?
[10:14] <mdz> I'll use "^snd.$ossmod\>" over -w
[10:14] <mdz> Clint: 2.4 vs. 2.6
[10:15] <mdz> I'll write it as [_-]  so it's clear what it wants
[10:15] <Clint> so modprobe does the -/_ translation?
[10:17] <mdz> yep
[10:17] <mdz> hmmm
[10:17] <mdz> I just remembered that alsa-base also has /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/alsa-base
[10:17] <mdz> though, hotplug seems to do the right thing and prefer the alsa modules anyway
[10:17] <mdz> but maybe that's just luck
[10:18] <mdz> the alsa modules are listed first
[10:18] <mdz> in the map files
[10:18] <mdz> at least in my case
[10:19] <mdz> anyone know if that's intentional or coincidence?
[10:20] <mdz> if it isn't, then we may need to move alsa-base to base after all
[10:21] <lamont> justdave: what additional config does postfix need to send mail for your 80%??
[10:21] <lamont> (I know it's missing stuff, but it's not allowed to ask questions...)
[10:21] <Kamion> mdz: give me a shout if you need debootstrap changes, I'm off to get something to eat now
[10:22] <mdz> Kamion: I think I'm leaning in that direction, being unable to easily verify this in the kernel source
[10:22] <mdz> Kamion: if you're happy for them to move, I'm happy to consider them appropriate for base as hardware detection stuffs
[10:23] <justdave> lamont: needs /etc/mailname set to a domain that exists outside your LAN, and relayhost set to the ISP's SMTP server (since most of them block outbound port 25 these days)
[10:24] <lamont> justdave: yeah - that'd be those pesky questions things... :-(
[10:24] <cef> mdz: you're asking about hotplug order and audio? I've had to deal with it before.. ask away
[10:26] <cef> btw: seems that if you load oss and alsa modules at the same time, alsa 'may' block, while oss will seemingly work.. cos the oss code doesn't always check that it's in use. hence it's always good to have hotplug blacklist the oss modules
[10:28] <mdz> cef: I'm asking whether we can rely on the fact that the alsa modules are listed before oss modules in, e.g. modules.pcimap
[10:28] <mdz> or whether it's coincidental and we need /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/alsa-base
[10:35] <mdz> cef: do you happen to know, or know where to look to find out?
[10:35] <mdz> I guess that'd be in depmod
[10:35] <cef> think it's coincidental.. though I don't 100% know.. I know that if  discover is run before hotplug, discover will load all the oss modules too, though I think we don't use discover anymore (hankfully, I hope)
[10:35] <cef> sounds the right place
[10:38] <mdz> looks like it just does it in readdir() order
[10:38] <mdz> so it won't be deterministic
[10:38] <mdz> cef: yes, that's exactly why we ditched the init script in discover
[10:39] <mdz> it's still used to look up the X driver name
[10:39] <mdz> but it doesn't load any kernel modules by default
[10:40] <mdz> Kamion: that cinches it; we want alsa-base in Base
[10:40] <mdz> I'll update the wiki
[10:42] <cef> fwiw, I think that because of where alsa modules go in the directory structure, it'll pretty much always come up first, but that of course could change
[10:42] <cef> ok, time to go to work..
[11:24] <debianist> hey again people, just got back, what's cooking? ;-)
[11:25] <thom> but i want my warty blue!
[11:25] <Kamion> "cut its horns off, wipe its arse, and stick it on the plate"
[11:26] <debianist> I'll have mine raw
[11:26] <debianist> ;)
[11:26] <debianist> like in a sushi
[11:27] <thom> Kamion: i think we're about to take that to the limit on wednesday :-)
[11:30] <Kamion> heh
[11:31] <debianist> just got a gift, iTouch 22 Logitech Control Center thingiy..think it'll work with ubuntu? ;)
[11:32] <debianist> kbd and mouse are standard, is there anything to support the buttons and extras ?
[11:34] <thom> i imagine that gnome can be told to use the additional buttons proividng you get x events for them
[11:37] <debianist> thom : yeah, i suppose so. anyways i'll test tommorow after I get my AC adaptor..
[11:38] <mdz> thom: you'd think so, but it doesn't work for the thinkpad buttons :-)
[11:39] <debianist> mdz : would be nice to support those, there are MacOS X drivers though..can't we hack them for our usage? (not in warty ofcourse)
[11:39] <debianist> ;)
[11:40] <Kamion> Darwin drivers can often be reverse-engineered but it'll take a kernel hacker who knows Darwin
[11:41] <thom> mdz: true dat
[11:41] <thom> my MS natural keyboard has all sorts of "My Music" and "Reply" buttons and all sorts of crap, and they all seem to work
[11:42] <thom> mdz: i wonder if gnome specificly excludes those thinkpad buttons for some reason?
[11:43] <debianist> thom : have you done any excess configs for it to work?
[11:45] <carlos> debianist: does xev tells you anything when you press the keys?
[11:45] <carlos> if xev detects them, gnome can handle them
[11:48] <jdub> carlos: pong
[11:48] <debianist> carlos : i'd love to see thos messages, however a proper adaptor (this is a gift from a relative of the US) would be only tommorow :)
[11:48] <carlos> debianist: :-)
[11:48] <debianist> carlos : i'll check and report back
[11:49] <carlos> jdub: could you change my mail address from all mailing list?