[12:00] <Kamion> mdz: done
[12:00] <debianist> epoch v.numbers are to avoid conflicts with upstream version numbers?
[12:00] <Kamion> epochs are when you make a mistake in version numbering and need to start again. see the Debian policy manual for details
[12:01] <Clint> they're not for Debian mistakes.  see the policy manual for details.  :P
[12:02] <Clint> oh, did that get changed?
[12:02] <Kamion>     It is provided to allow mistakes in the version numbers of older versions
[12:02] <Kamion>     of a package, and also a package's previous version numbering schemes, to
[12:02] <Kamion>     be left behind.
[12:02] <Kamion> it's always said that AFAIK
[12:02] <Clint> please stop msging me
[12:03] <Clint> Perhaps I remembered incorrectly.
[12:03] <debianist> sorry
[12:05] <Clint> debianist: there is more than one place in the policy manual where epochs are discussed
[12:29] <debianist> pitti : Hi!
[12:30] <pitti> debianist: Hi!
[12:30] <debianist> pitti : i see you keep coming and going, had a good time off? ;)
[12:30] <carlos> Kamion: hmm, did you saw my mail about the yaboot configuration to boot from a firewire device?
[12:31] <Kamion> yes, but rather swamped I'm afraid, I'll try to remember to have a look at it
[12:31] <pitti> debianist: no, I just installed the new Warty on my Desktop
[12:31] <Kamion> probably not before preview though, sorry
[12:31] <pitti> debianist: and now its done :-)
[12:31] <pitti> debianist: still had some rough edges
[12:31] <pitti> debianist: at the first attempt, grub crashed with an "error 21"
[12:32] <debianist> pitti : have you spotted the topic?
[12:32] <carlos> Kamion: don't worry, It's not urgent. Should I file a bug about it?
[12:32] <Kamion> yes, that's probably the best way to make sure I remember
[12:32] <pitti> debianist: yes, I had a special BIOS setting enabled which speeds up bootup
[12:32] <Kamion> ouch, my activity report for today is longer than for most weekdays
[12:32] <pitti> debianist: and I added a new hd today (before I did not have enough space to test Warty on my desktop, only my laptop)
[12:33] <carlos> pitti: I didn't forgot the NM process, I will try to finish it this week (and this time it will be true :-P)
[12:33] <pitti> debianist: and the BIOS did not yet recognize my new hd, so grub did not either
[12:34] <pitti> carlos: good to hear :-)
[12:34] <pitti> mdz: here?
[12:34] <Kamion> debianist: hm, to my knowledge there was nothing about broken grub in the 20040912 brokenness
[12:35] <debianist> Kamion : i guess it was something to do with the special bios functio he used.
[12:35] <pitti> Kamion: Now I tried to install Warty on two totally different computers. On none of them snd-pcm-oss and snd-mixer-oss are loaded. Do you think we can get this in by the release?
[12:36] <Kamion> debianist: yes, read that
[12:36] <pitti> Kamion: that wasn't d-i's fault
[12:36] <Kamion> pitti: already sorted, see bug #1166
[12:38] <pitti> Kamion: thanks. This just missed today's daily :-/
[12:39] <Kamion> it *considerably* missed today's daily, I only changed debootstrap half an hour ago :)
[12:39] <pitti> ;-) I downloaded the ISO about an hour ago
[12:39] <Kamion> should be in tomorrow's, anyway
[12:39] <pitti> but of course it's already a bit older
[12:41] <pitti> Kamion: can I upload a new base-config with updated German translations tomorrow or does that somehow interfere with your actions?
[12:41] <pitti> Kamion: or is there another translation strategy?
[12:43] <Kamion> file a bug with them attached, I'll see that they get into my next upload
[12:43] <Kamion> I'm sure there'll be at least one before preview anyway ...
[12:43] <pitti> Kamion: okay, I will do that
[12:45] <mdz> pitti: here
[12:46] <mdz> Kamion: thanks for the new debootstrap
[12:46] <pitti> mdz: already sorted out (#1166), thanks
[12:47] <pitti> good night, guys!
[12:47] <mdz> night
[01:41] <lamont> is there no python bzip2 module?
[01:51] <elmo> it's builtin, 'bz2'
[01:52] <debianist> lamont : security wise, we do not support pkgs with priority "optinal", section "net"
[01:52] <debianist> lamont : ?
[01:56] <debianist> lamont : nm. wrong section. disregard
[02:08] <Kamion> priority and section are not interesting for Ubuntu
[02:09] <Kamion> we support what's in our main archive
[02:09] <debianist> anything without "universe" in it is supported?
[02:10] <Kamion> yes
[02:11] <debianist> ok, anything under pool/main
[02:12] <Kamion> and pool/restricted/
[02:13] <debianist> ok, thanks again.
[03:31] <debianist> hi haggai
[03:34] <daniels> fabbione: ??
[03:35] <daniels> fabbione: oh yeah -- i see the problem. hm.
[03:38] <debianist> Kamion : here?
[03:39] <elmo> debianist: no, he's asleep
[03:39] <daniels> fabbione: 0.4.3 uploaded
[03:45] <debianist> elmo : i try 'aptitude show tomcat4' that's my output = 'Package: tomcat4
[03:45] <debianist> '
[03:45] <debianist> elmo : if the package is there, should it show me it's desc?
[03:46] <debianist> elmo : also, chcked the *Packages files, and tomcat4 is only suggested by another pkg.
[03:46] <elmo> debianist: no idea sorry, I've never used aptitude
[03:47] <debianist> elmo : same for apt, could you run over your machine tell me the output?
[03:47] <elmo> I think tomcat4 is not in warty at all, even universe
[03:47] <elmo> we only imported debian/main into universe and IIRC tomcat is in contrib
[03:47] <debianist> ok
[03:47] <debianist> that explains it,
[03:47] <debianist> guess aptitude is just grepping the packages files and gave the line from the suggested
[03:47] <debianist> thanks elmo
[03:49] <jdub> yo jamesh 
[03:49] <jamesh> hi jdub
[03:50] <lifeless> yoyo
[04:33] <elmo> night all
[04:40] <debianist> night elmo
[05:11] <daniels> elmo: night dude
[05:24] <whiprush> jdub: ping
[05:25] <jdub> pong
[05:47] <lamont> my computer icon is back.. how sweet.
[05:48] <debianist> morning lamont
[05:48] <debianist> ;)
[05:48] <lamont> although clicking on Home is less happy...: Failed to execute the child process\n"kfmclient" (No such file or directory)
[05:49] <debianist> are you using recent daily?
[05:51] <jamesh> lamont: are you sure those icons aren't left over from running KDE?
[05:52] <lamont> jamesh: this was a flatlined install about sounder 3 timeframe... 
[05:53] <jamesh> I wonder what the kfmclient stuff is about then?
[05:53] <lamont> apt-get dist-upgrade and a reboot is why I left channel...
[05:53] <debianist> lamont : could you tell me what you think about DSA-102, fixed/not ?
[05:53] <lamont> jamesh: no clue.  It's remotely possible that I ran kde once back when, or rather, had it installed for some other packages...   /home/lamont carried over across the flatline
[05:53] <jamesh> lamont: is there any files in ~/Desktop that look like they might be icons for your home dir?
[05:53] <jamesh> lamont: (there shouldn't be with Gnome)
[05:54] <lamont> ls ~/Desktop/
[05:54] <lamont> Home  starthere.desktop  Trash
[05:54] <lamont> sounder 3 timeframe had a Home icon.
[05:54] <jamesh> lamont: delete the Home and Trash files
[05:54] <jamesh> lamont: if you want to turn on the home, computer or trash icons, use gconf-editor
[05:54] <jamesh> go to /apps/nautilus/desktop
[05:55] <jamesh> there are a number of boolean *_visible keys
[06:04] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:07] <debianist> morning fabbione
[06:09] <jdub> mdz: so
[06:09] <jdub> mdz: i'd like to lock down uploads now
[06:10] <jdub> mdz: and require confirmation from you and i for every change
[06:10] <jdub> mdz: perhaps barring artwork
[06:10] <jdub> s/barring/excepting/
[06:10] <jdub> mdz: are you happy with that now?
[06:11] <jdub> (we've been appropriately loose so far)
[06:11] <mdz> hmm
[06:11] <mdz> maybe with s/and/or/
[06:11] <mdz> otherwise we are timezone bottlenecks
[06:12] <jdub> hmm
[06:12] <jdub> okay, for this release, that's okay, but later on, we should shift toward double-confirms
[06:12] <debianist> mdz : what about security review? i'm nearly done..in about 30mins
[06:13] <jdub> (we'll have a team anyway, so it'll be less bottlenecky)
[06:13] <debianist> hmm, make that extra 30 mins then ;)
[06:48] <debianist> don't get it. have 2 php4 packages in my *Packges files, one in /pool/main the other in universe..
[06:52] <doko> morning
[06:53] <fabbione> daniels: ping
[06:53] <debianist> morning doko
[06:53] <doko> fabbione: X-testing: you mean the guidelines from "Second call for X testers"?
[06:53] <debianist> doko : php4 is universe right?
[06:53] <jblack> fabbioone: I'm doing dual-head tonight! 
[06:53] <fabbione> doko: yes
[06:54] <fabbione> jblack: it won't be aoutdetected, but if you need a working config i have one for you :-)
[06:54] <jblack> I've already got it working... well, kinda.
[06:54] <fabbione> jblack: and dual head rocks !
[06:54] <jblack> I can't seem to drive the monitor at 1600x1200, but it seems to be quite usable at the weird resolution it did pick.
[06:55] <doko> debianist: yes, universe/web
[06:55] <jblack> The only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to move windows betwen screens.
[06:55] <doko> jblack: AFAIK there is a difference between dual head and extended desktop (at least for the ATI drivers)
[06:56] <fabbione> jblack: extended desktop you need xinerama
[06:56] <debianist> doko : so that's completely un reasonable that i have another php4 entry on the packag file, saying it's in /poo/main/p/php4 ?
[06:56] <jblack> Oh, that's not enabled by default? 
[06:56] <fabbione> jblack: for the resolution can you check Horiz/Vert freq?
[06:56] <jblack> sure. How do I do that? 
[06:56] <fabbione> jblack: nope.. xinerama needs to be enabled
[06:56] <debianist> doko : section web, not universe
[06:56] <fabbione> jblack: in the config file
[06:57] <jblack> I take it that needs a Load "xinerama" option.
[06:57] <fabbione>         HorizSync       30-109
[06:57] <fabbione>         VertRefresh     48-160
[06:57] <fabbione> jblack: i can't remember how to enable xinerama.. just a sec that i will RTFM
[06:57] <fabbione> (oh btw the values are only examples from my monitor)
[06:58] <fabbione> Option "Xinerama" "true"
[06:58] <fabbione> in the server section
[06:58] <fabbione> Section "ServerLayout"
[06:58] <fabbione>         Option "Xinerama" "true"
[06:58] <fabbione> and so on...
[06:58] <fabbione> that should work
[06:59] <jblack> Ok. restarting X.
[06:59] <fabbione> ok
[07:04] <jblack> fabbioone.... 
[07:04] <jblack> Did I ever tell you just how cool you are? 
[07:04] <fabbione> ahaha
[07:04] <fabbione> :-))))
[07:05] <jblack> I screwed with that for like two hours.
[07:05] <fabbione> did it hook up proper resolutions and freq too?
[07:05] <jblack> and you just go "Oh. add these two lines, and all will be good"
[07:05] <jblack> Oh, I hit google for the freqs.
[07:05] <fabbione> jblack: it would be the same for me towards RCS :-)
[07:06] <jblack> Heh. revision control systems are easy.
[07:06] <jblack> Its making X do everything exactly right thats impossible.
[07:07] <jblack> xwininfo reports "3320x1200". :) 
[07:07] <fabbione> yup
[07:07] <fabbione> because it catches the entire desktop
[07:07] <fabbione> since it's on one viewport
[07:08] <jblack> I wonder if I can do this at 24bpp
[07:08] <fabbione> that only depends on how much ram you have on the video card
[07:08] <fabbione> but if you are dual head, i am pretty sure you can
[07:09] <jblack> brb after I find out.
[07:09] <jamesh> xdpyinfo is probably the command you want
[07:09] <fabbione> jamesh: the output is correct
[07:10] <fabbione> he is using 2x1600x1200 (or similar) in xinerama
[07:10] <fabbione> so one huge desktop
[07:10] <jamesh> ah.
[07:10] <jamesh> or 1660x1200
[07:10] <fabbione> it's not 2 separate 1600x1200
[07:10] <doko> fabbione: for the first test: is "(EE) No input driver matching `synaptic' expected"?
[07:10] <fabbione> doko: yes. but it should not be a fatal error
[07:11] <fabbione> jamesh: yeah.. 
[07:11] <jamesh> fabbione: apparently Keith reckons the new X extensions will get rid of the need for Xinerama
[07:11] <jblack> Nope. 
[07:11] <jamesh> fabbione: since you'd be able to composite windows from one screen to the other
[07:11] <jblack> I guess 3320x1200x24 was a little much to ask for
[07:11] <fabbione> jblack: can you check in /var/log/XFree86.0.log how much ram do you have on the board?
[07:12] <jamesh> and redirect user input
[07:12] <doko> fabbione: hmm, it is fatal.
[07:12] <fabbione> jamesh: we will see after switching to x.org :-)
[07:12] <fabbione> doko: it can't be fatal
[07:12] <jamesh> fabbione: I don't know if it is possible yet though ...
[07:12] <fabbione> doko: because you have psmouse and mousedev loaded
[07:12] <jblack> (--) RADEON(1): VideoRAM: 32768 kByte (128 bit DDR SDRAM)
[07:13] <fabbione> jblack: with 32MB of ram you are lucky you can do dual head :-))))
[07:13] <jamesh> fabbione: it does open up a number of possibilities though, such as dynamically changing the relative positions of the screens
[07:13] <jamesh> (doing it from client side)
[07:14] <jblack> could X be confused about how much ram I have?
[07:14] <fabbione> jamesh: well right now the hardcoded position of the screen is a (quite) simple barrier to kill
[07:14] <fabbione> jblack: yes.
[07:14] <jblack> It's a 1 month old laptop that just sent me back $2600.
[07:14] <fabbione> jblack: if you believe to have more ram you can force it
[07:15] <jblack> How do I check? 
[07:15] <fabbione> jblack: you need to check the video card specs on google :-)
[07:15] <fabbione> and i am checking how to force it
[07:15] <jblack> Hrmmm. Well, I'm already back a step.
[07:15] <jblack> the sticker on the machine says its an ati radeon mobility 9700, but lspci lists it as a 9600.
[07:16] <fabbione> that can be a lspci glitch
[07:16] <jblack> geeze this is a big desktop.
[07:16] <fabbione> in X config where you define the video card:
[07:16] <fabbione> Section "Device"
[07:16] <fabbione> Identifier "whatever name you picked up"
[07:17] <doko> fabbione: starting X shows me a blinking screen, somewhat looking ascii-ish, screen resolution 640x480, console messages like AUDIT ... X: client 20 rejected from local host
[07:17] <jamesh> fabbione: well, it does provide a generic solution that could handle rearranging of spanned desktops, mirroring the desktop, and a11y apps like magnifiers
[07:17] <jamesh> and switching between the modes at runtine
[07:17] <jamesh> runtime, even
[07:17] <fabbione> VideoRam <value>
[07:18] <fabbione> jblack: where value is expressed in kB
[07:18] <jblack> 16bpp is fine for me.
[07:18] <jblack> Now if only I could hook up a third monitor.... 
[07:18] <fabbione> jblack: well for the sake of it you should push it to 24bit :-)))
[07:19] <fabbione> doko: ok.. give me 2 minutes and we will go step by step on it
[07:19] <jblack> What happens if I lie to X and say the card has 64 megs, if it only has 32? 
[07:19] <fabbione> jblack: it would possibly crash
[07:19] <fabbione> but trust me.. you have more than 32Mb
[07:19] <fabbione> just check the specs
[07:19] <fabbione> and force the ram with a proper value
[07:20] <fabbione> be back in a few minutes!
[07:21] <jblack> Yup. its got 64 megs
[07:23] <jamesh> For most apps, 16bit is sufficient though
[07:23] <jamesh> and can be faster
[07:24] <fabbione> he already left :-)
[07:24] <fabbione> hmm perhpas X detects 64Mb and split the ram 2x32 for dualhead
[07:24] <fabbione> i haven't tought about it
[07:24] <fabbione> doko: ok... let's start
[07:24] <fabbione> doko: apt-get --purge remove xserver-xfree86
[07:25] <fabbione> doko: be sure there is no /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
[07:25] <fabbione> doko: apt-get install xresprobe laptop-detect mdetect discover1
[07:25] <doko> fabbione: done
[07:25] <fabbione> and be sure xresprobe is at version 0.4.4
[07:25] <doko> ok
[07:26] <fabbione> is it at that version?
[07:26] <doko> yes, 0.4.4
[07:26] <fabbione> ok. did you stop X?
[07:26] <doko> yes, before I purged the package
[07:27] <fabbione> goody
[07:27] <fabbione> which video card do you have?
[07:27] <doko> Nvidia GForce4 440 Go
[07:28] <fabbione> ok
[07:28] <fabbione> xresprobe nv
[07:29] <doko> tells me: grep: /tmp ... file or directory not found, id: res: freq: with no values
[07:30] <fabbione> ok, this is partially correct
[07:30] <fabbione> do you have a /etc/X11/X symlink?
[07:30] <doko> no
[07:31] <fabbione> now install xserver-xfree86
[07:31] <doko> done, the screen did "blink" one time
[07:32] <fabbione> doko: ok
[07:32] <fabbione> now run again xresprobe nv
[07:32] <doko> same result
[07:32] <fabbione> it gives an error?
[07:33] <jblack> fabbioone: According to the web, I have 64 megs of ram. but when I set that for both devices, It corrupted one of the displays
[07:33] <fabbione> jblack: yes.. i realized it a sec after you left
[07:33] <doko> exit status 0, but same output as mentioned
[07:33] <fabbione> jblack: 64 Mb of ram is detected correctly. 2 heads = 32Mb of ram each
[07:34] <fabbione> doko: ok. first open a bug on xresprobe becuase it returns crap
[07:34] <jblack> oh man. now I need a new desk.
[07:34] <fabbione> now.. when you installed xserver-xfree86, did X asked you about the resolution you wanted to run?
[07:35] <doko> fabbione: no question
[07:35] <fabbione> doko: ok... the problem is xresprobe returning crap
[07:36] <fabbione> doko: and X can't really validate xresprobe output
[07:36] <fabbione> doko: at this point...
[07:36] <fabbione> you can only reconfigure X manually
[07:36] <doko> any information you need?
[07:36] <fabbione> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[07:37] <fabbione> doko: you need to send daniles some log stuff.. he added some debugging stuff in the environment, but i am not sure what yet...
[07:37] <fabbione> doko: hadn't the time to catch up during the weekend
[07:38] <doko> ok, will do so. won't be online today until the evening.
[07:38] <fabbione> XRESPROBE_DEBUG=yes
[07:38] <fabbione> export it and then run xresprobe nv
[07:38] <fabbione> send all the output to daniels
[07:38] <fabbione> that should be enough
[07:43] <doko> fabbione: X error message when called from /usr/share/xresprobe/xprobe.sh: Unrecognized option: -logfile
[07:46] <fabbione> doko: add everything up to the report for daniels
[07:54] <mdz> doko: huh?  -logfile is a valid option
[07:54] <mdz> doko: do you have some other X in your PATH or something?
[08:00] <fabbione> mdz: i am afraid xresprobe is still seriously borked
[08:00] <mdz> fabbione: it is working fine for me
[08:00] <mdz> 0.4.3 was, anyway
[08:00] <fabbione> yeah.. what about 0.4.4?
[08:00] <mdz> I'll try it shortly
[08:01] <fabbione> thanks
[08:01] <mdz> works
[08:02] <mdz> doko: set -x in xprobe.sh and find the command line which is producing that error
[08:02] <mdz> fabbione: where does the /etc/X11/X symlink point?
[08:02] <mdz> er
[08:02] <mdz> doko: ^^^
[08:03] <fabbione> mdz: considering that he is using xserver-xfree86 it should point to /usr/X11R6/bin/Xfree86 or something like that
[08:03] <mdz> it should, yes
[08:03] <mdz> but I don't see why /usr/X11R6/bin/XFree86 would say "Unrecognized option: -logfile"
[08:04] <mdz> daniels: awake?
[08:04] <fabbione> perhaps the way the command line is built?
[08:04] <fabbione> mdz: i think he is at the uni
[08:04] <mdz> fabbione: hmm?
[08:04] <fabbione> | away     : daniels - uni
[08:05] <fabbione> now he is not away anumore
[08:05] <mdz> hmm
[08:05] <fabbione> anymore
[08:05] <mdz> I found a way to reproduce that error
[08:05] <mdz> if you run XFree86 as non-root :-)
[08:05] <mdz> that is the only way I can cause that to happen
[08:05] <fabbione> doh!
[08:05] <fabbione> mdz: even via sudo?
[08:05] <mdz> no
[08:05] <mdz> if the X server itself runs as non-root
[08:06] <mdz> then it will not honor -logfile
[08:06] <mdz> perhaps doko was running xresprobe as an unprivileged user
[08:06] <fabbione> doko: ?
[08:06] <doko> hmm, seems I'm looking stupied ... :-( I'll retry 
[08:08] <doko> fabbione, ok I now get id: res: 640x480 freq:
[08:09] <mdz> doko: did you run with XRESPROBE_DEBUG=yes?
[08:09] <mdz> if you do, it will leave behind a directory in /tmp
[08:09] <mdz> and you should send the logfiles in it to daniels
[08:13] <mdz> m_tthew: welcome :-)
[08:13] <doko> which directory is supposed to be left in /tmp? I don't see anything, double checked for typos in the env var setting
[08:13] <mdz> doko: you have xresprobe >= 0.4.3?
[08:14] <mdz> doko: should be /tmp/xprobe.<pid>
[08:14] <pitti> Good morning guys!
[08:14] <m_tthew> -mdz ahoy'hoy
[08:14] <mdz> doko: ah, seems to be a bug with the debug setting
[08:14] <mdz> doko: set both XRESPROBE_DEBUG and XPROBE_DEBUG
[08:20] <doko> 0.4.4, ah, ok, the directory is left when running /usr/share/xresprobe/xprobe.sh directly.
[08:23] <mdz> doko: anything interesting in it?
[08:25] <mdz> doko: this is a laptop, right? (you said geForce Go)
[08:26] <mdz> doko:   EGREPLINE="\(--\) NV\(.*\): Virtual size is .*x.* \(pitch .*\)"
[08:26] <mdz> that's the pattern it's searching for in xfree86.log
[08:26] <doko> yes, only complain is: can't open /etc/X11/rgb.txt, although the file exists.
[08:27] <doko> mdz: the only line that matches is the 640x480 line.
[08:29] <mdz> doko: look at the rest of the log file
[08:29] <mdz> all of the NV(0) stuff
[08:30] <mdz> I'm going to sleep soon, but file a bug, attach those files, and assign it to daniels
[08:31] <fabbione> night mdz
[08:31] <doko> mdz: night. tommorow is team meeting?
[08:32] <fabbione> uh?
[08:32] <fabbione> 's meeting
[08:32] <fabbione> (DAMN ENTER)
[08:33] <doko> fabbione: that was a question, I don't have email either.
[08:33] <fabbione> ahhhh
[08:33] <fabbione> you scared me for a sec
[08:34] <fabbione> daniels: are you around?
[08:46] <mdz> no plans for a meeting tomorrow
[08:47] <pitti> Kamion: the untranslated string during base-install is in passwd, not base-installer; shall I send you a bug report or directly upload?
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: i am doing a few changes to X to simplify debugging
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: daniels told me you asked him to do so...
[08:54] <mdz> fabbione: he said I asked him to do what exactly?
[08:54] <fabbione> mdz: to make the postinst easier to debug...
[08:54] <fabbione> mdz: like adding a XRESPROBE_DEBUG
[08:55] <fabbione> that would switch to set -x
[08:55] <fabbione> at least this was my understanding
[08:55] <fabbione> + you were also concerned about making the postinst easier to debug
[08:55] <fabbione> no?
[08:55] <mdz> I think we talked about it in Oxford
[08:55] <mdz> there is already a debug variable in postinst, is there not?
[08:56] <fabbione> nope
[08:56] <fabbione> there is one in config.in
[08:56] <mdz> what is DEBUG_XFREE86_PACKAGE?
[08:57] <fabbione> oh yes...
[08:57] <fabbione> sorry but some stuff gets included at build time
[08:58] <daniels> fabbione: pong
[08:58] <daniels> mdz: pong
[09:00] <fabbione> daniels: i am kinda implemeting the changes you were talking about X
[09:00] <fabbione> daniels: do you have any patch or bug fix you want to give to me?
[09:00] <fabbione> daniels: i have been re-reading the talk we had and i was srong on a couple of things
[09:00] <fabbione> daniels: so i kinda agree on the stuff that had to be done
[09:01] <daniels> on the via/i810 stuff?
[09:01] <fabbione> daniels: yes
[09:01] <daniels> my position was just that if xresprobe can't do it, then we should do the checks for it in xresprobe, becuase that's where the bug lies
[09:01] <daniels> cool
[09:01] <daniels> i don't have patches just yet, but i hope to have them bny the end of tonight
[09:01] <daniels> when are you around 'till?
[09:02] <mdz> pitti: how is the security review going?
[09:02] <daniels> fabbione: we already have a XRESPROBE_DEBUG; it could be a lotmore friendly (by sayig wht it's throwing away and what it's keeping), but it's verbose enough that we canbeat l the info out of it pretty easily
[09:02] <daniels> so it's low on my priority list
[09:02] <fabbione> daniels: it's 9 am here and i will be around until 5 pm. probably back around 9 pm
[09:02] <daniels> the r4xx stuff looks pretty easy to integrate
[09:02] <pitti> mdz: doko finished (most of?) DSA 2003, sivan wanted to finish 2002 yesterday
[09:02] <fabbione> daniels: check here:
[09:03] <fabbione>   * Fix framebuffer detection. (Closes #1176)
[09:03] <fabbione>   * Add XRESPROBE_DEBUG env var check to wrap xresprobeint with set -/+x
[09:03] <fabbione>     in xserver-xfree86.postinst.in.
[09:03] <fabbione>   * Set XRESPROBE_DEBUG to true if DEBUG_XFREE86_PACKAGE has been defined.
[09:03] <fabbione>   * Attempt to probe for all drivers but only if we are installing
[09:03] <fabbione>     for the first time.
[09:03] <fabbione>   * Add XF86FORCEPROBE env var check to force probe even on upgrades.
[09:03] <fabbione>     NOTE: USE WITH CAUTION! IT CAN CRASH YOUR RUNNING X!!!
[09:03] <pitti> mdz: so far I did not yet hear about the status of 2004 (lamont wanted to do this)
[09:03] <mdz> pitti: I don't see any bugs remaining in bugzilla; are there no pending issues from the review?
[09:03] <elmo> RAR
[09:03] <pitti> mdz: there are some; currently they are in the wiki since I wanted to deal with them today
[09:03] <mdz> pitti: please send him an email ping, CC me
[09:03] <pitti> mdz: but I can file bugs anyway
[09:03] <mdz> I think he has gone to bed tonight
[09:03] <daniels> fabbione: that's awesome, thankyou very much
[09:03] <pitti> mdz: I will mail him or ask doko to do 2004 as well
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: ok
[09:04] <daniels> they were all the xfree86 changes i was talking about that i wanted to see done
[09:04] <fabbione> daniels: ok... we will keep the drivers update for ubuntu17 if that's ok for you?
[09:04] <pitti> doko: did you already finished the DSAs 2003?
[09:04] <fabbione> daniels: also because the nv driver is a real bitch
[09:04] <mdz> pitti: do you think you can find patches to take care of #1177 and #1179?
[09:04] <jdub> ahr crap
[09:05] <mdz> ah
[09:05] <mdz> pitti: there is a patch filed in GNOME bugzilla, linked from the bug
[09:05] <jdub> i so need to get acpi sorted on this machine
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: I will do this today
[09:05] <mdz> pitti: I will assign the bugs to you; if you do not have time today, pass them on to someone else working on the security review
[09:06] <pitti> mdz: yes please; then I see them on my start page :-)
[09:06] <jdub> mdz: can we set some kind of sensible option for not cleaning tmp on every reboot?
[09:06] <mdz> pitti: if you do not want to file bugs in bugzilla for the fixes you will do yourself, that is OK, but remember that I will not be able to take that workload into account when assigning you more work :-)
[09:06] <mdz> if they are in bugzilla, then I can see what you already have on your list
[09:06] <mdz> jdub: hmm?  cleaning /tmp on every boot is sensible, in my opinion
[09:07] <fabbione> jdub: it is already configurable
[09:07] <elmo> and is pretty much mandatory if we're going to use tmpfs ;-)
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: there is the ominous wget bug ( #261755) I'm not sure about
[09:07] <jdub> elmo: ;)
[09:07] <jdub> fabbione: that's not what i asked :)
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: and there are a bunch of bugs I'm not sure whether they need updates, so I hesitated to file bugs
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: they need a closer examination
[09:07] <jdub> mdz: mostly, yeah, but not when you're writing emails in mutt and your machine turns off ;)
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: But I can handle the imlib bugs
[09:07] <mdz> pitti: better to file bugs if you are unsure; then I and others will see them and can comment
[09:08] <pitti> mdz: okay
[09:08] <mdz> jdub: seems like a mutt bug
[09:08] <mdz> precious data doesn't belong in /tmp
[09:08] <m_tthew> more like an editor bug
[09:08] <pitti> mdz: I wanted to start sorting this out now anyway, I'm done with my other tasks
[09:08] <jdub> mutt should use dotfiles in the homedir?
[09:10] <m_tthew> "editors should use tempfiles in more reliable places like /var/tmp
[09:10] <jdub> it's not the editor's fault
[09:10] <m_tthew> "oh after the editor write but before a send from mutt?
[09:11] <jdub> no, mutt tells the editor what to edit
[09:11] <m_tthew> "I see what you are saying
[09:12] <mdz> jdub: I believe mutt has a muttrc setting for it
[09:12] <mdz> but /tmp is a crap default
[09:12] <jdub> mmm
[09:13] <jdub> thanks, i'll find the setting
[09:14] <m_tthew> "tmpdir
[09:15] <jdub> seems to be tmpdir-- yeah :)
[09:15] <pitti> mdz: I knew this imlib bug - I recently fixed qt3 which had the same error. Nice to know where upstreams copy from each other :-)
[09:16] <pitti> mdz: okay, they did not copy 'literally'
[09:17] <mdz> it is not unusual with these file-format-related bugs for independent implementations to share the bug, unfortunately
[09:20] <mdz> pitti: if you have bugs which correspond to Debian bugs, send me the bug numbers and I can import them into bugzilla using debzilla
[09:20] <mdz> night all
[09:20] <pitti> mdz: good night
[09:20] <fabbione> night mdz
[09:22] <daniels> mdz: gah!
[09:22] <daniels> mdz: i take it you want the page on n-n-ny?
[09:39] <fabbione> daniels: uploading ubuntu16 right now
[09:39] <daniels> fabbione: with just those changes?
[09:40] <fabbione> nope
[09:40] <fabbione>   * Update Italian, Danish and French debconf templates translations
[09:40] <fabbione>     from Debian trunk.
[09:40] <fabbione>   * Rename 989_warty_add_extra_modelines_from_xorg.diff to
[09:40] <fabbione>     989_ubuntu_add_extra_modelines_from_xorg.diff
[09:40] <fabbione>   * Import from Debian trunk:
[09:40] <fabbione>     + In the Xsession script, attempt to create a file of non-zero length in
[09:40] <fabbione>       /tmp; a full filesystem can cause mysterious X session failures.
[09:40] <fabbione> this more
[09:40] <fabbione> do we need more for ubuntu16?
[09:41] <fabbione> i still have to push to jackass
[09:41] <fabbione> so there is time
[09:46] <jdub> morning Keybuk 
[09:46] <Keybuk> morning
[09:46] <pitti> Keybuk: Good morning!
[09:47] <fabbione> hey Keybuk
[09:47] <fabbione> nice 3rd place for button
[09:47] <Keybuk> Such enthusiasm.  You guys must've been dissing me before I came in ;o)
[09:48] <fabbione> ehehehe
[09:48] <fabbione> oh come on.. a 3rd place at monza is a good result
[09:49] <Keybuk> yeah, though F1 is seriously starting to need a "red cars are banned from racing" rule
[09:50] <fabbione> http://driverondemand.sourceforge.net/
[09:50] <fabbione> this sounds pretty nice!
[09:50] <fabbione> Keybuk: well we can change color.. it won't change the result
[09:50] <Keybuk> which is the problem.  one team winning all the time is killing the sport
[09:52] <Keybuk> it was a good race, but the way they took the lead back without sweating does make you wonder why you bother watching when you know who's going to win
[09:54] <fabbione> dude.. if we have a cool set of cars and drivers... other teams should go back to work and improve instead of sitting on "no matter what.. they always win philosophy"
[09:54] <daniels> fabbione: schumacher didn't come first, what a tragedy
[09:54] <daniels> fabbione: nope, that's fine with ubuntu16
[09:54] <fabbione> daniels: no it's not a tragedy
[09:55] <fabbione> daniels: barrichello was supposed to win..
[09:55] <daniels> fabbione: i might do something extra for ubuntu17, but i forgot what it is
[09:55] <Keybuk> fabbione: none of the other teams have the *money* to get near Ferrari at the moment
[09:55] <fabbione> schummy already have the world championship
[09:55] <daniels> wrt xsession and starting stuff that should be started
[09:55] <daniels> oh, right
[09:55] <Keybuk> their budget is roughly that of all the other teams combined
[09:55] <daniels> adding use-bluez-pin to the default Xsession.options, and making bluez install a bluez-pin --dbus Xsession.d script
[09:55] <jdub> mdz: did you go to bed?
[09:55] <jdub> daniels: i played with that the other day
[09:55] <fabbione> daniels: ok.. let's keep that for ubuntu17.
[09:56] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: then limit the budget you have, like in US presidential campaigns.
[09:56] <jdub> daniels: very silly to have all these daemons
[09:56] <daniels> jdub: i've been playing with it a bit
[09:56] <jdub> daniels: wait -- you're adding that to Xsession.options?
[09:56] <daniels> jdub: hm, i don't think it's so bad if it's really lightweight, kind of makes sense
[09:56] <Keybuk> you have to really feel for teams like Minardi
[09:56] <daniels> jdub: thinking of doing so
[09:56] <daniels> jdub: won't do any harm if bluez-tools isn't installed, no?
[09:56] <Keybuk> they're in serious shit at the moment because they might not have the money to race for the rest of the season
[09:56] <daniels> jdub: (don't tell me it's in desktop)
[09:56] <fabbione> Keybuk: well.. we have money because we win :-)
[09:56] <jdub> daniels: nooooooo
[09:56] <daniels> Keybuk: yeah
[09:56] <jdub> daniels: no changes like that
[09:57] <daniels> jdub: we're going to need it if we seed gnome-bluetooth and g-p-m
[09:57] <jdub> daniels: concentrate on bugs only, please
[09:57] <jdub> daniels: those will only be in hoary
[09:57] <daniels> jdub: yeah. it is only a one-liner, mind; getting it in x now means that we don't have to change conffiles on people
[09:57] <Keybuk> fabbione: most of Ferrari's budget comes from Fiat/Ferrari ... it has little to do with their actual performance
[09:57] <jdub> daniels: it's a frivolous change
[09:58] <daniels> Keybuk: and they're a bloody nice team, too -- stoddart gave webber his start and then sent him off to jaguar with no worries, and only encouragement
[09:58] <jdub> daniels: we should *NOT* be making changes like that
[09:58] <daniels> jdub: 'k
[09:58] <fabbione> daniels, jdub: ubuntu16 is up...
[09:58] <fabbione> 2 bug fixes and debugging improvments
[09:58] <daniels> jdub: (note that bluez-utils doesn't even have an Xsession.d right now -- it was mainly about not changing conffiles lately)
[09:58] <daniels> fabbione: cool. i'm honing the ati shit right now, and I'll drop you 17 with ati and wacom later tonight
[09:59] <lifeless> ati prop driver ?
[09:59] <fabbione> daniels: ok send me the patches for testing.
[09:59] <daniels> nv will come tomorrow, it's a little more difficult, since the driver is SO DAMN OBSCURE that you actually have no clue what's going on (thanks nvidia!)
[09:59] <daniels> fabbione: 'course
[09:59] <daniels> lifeless: no
[09:59] <lifeless> :[
[09:59] <fabbione> daniels: if you can manage the nv driver it would be very nice
[09:59] <daniels> lifeless: backporting basic 2d support for r4xx cards
[09:59] <lifeless> ah
[09:59] <fabbione> daniels: for a full nv driver drop, you need also xaa and other bits.
[09:59] <daniels> fabbione: yeah. my current strategy is just a wholesale backport rather than trickling in individual changesets since there's no way to tell what they're even doing
[09:59] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, i'm working on that
[10:00] <jdub> daniels: (all the bluetooth stuff has been deferred to hoary)
[10:00] <daniels> fabbione: i think i can get rid of the new-xzz dep
[10:00] <daniels> jdub: (good plan)
[10:00] <jdub> daniels: (see HoaryHedgehog/DesktopSeed for more)
[10:00] <lifeless> for hoary, is having the ati driver supplied as part of hoary on the cards ?
[10:00] <fabbione> daniels: ok... don't mess too much around
[10:00] <jdub> daniels: (i built all of edd's stuff on my x300 - it's pretty sweet)
[10:00] <daniels> jdub: (mad phat)
[10:00] <jdub> daniels: (_totally_)
[10:00] <daniels> jdub: (yeah, i've been using it here too with a usb bluetooth adaptor, pretty rad except for a couple of firmware bugs on my phone that lock it solid)
[10:00] <fabbione>  xresprobe (0.4.5) warty; urgency=low                                                                                             
[10:00] <fabbione>  .                                                                                                                                
[10:00] <lifeless> jdub: where are the debs ?
[10:00] <fabbione>    * The 'uploading more often than Thom' release.              
[10:01] <fabbione> HAHAHHAHAHA
[10:01] <daniels> yeah, only another 3 today till I equal his record with a2
[10:02] <jdub> lifeless: haven't really got a sensible place to upload them
[10:02] <jdub> lifeless: might put them on my gnome.org repo in the mean time
[10:02] <lifeless> put em on the hosting network
[10:06] <jdub> i don't have a sensibly public homedir yet
[10:06] <jdub> oh
[10:07] <jdub> but that is down at the moment :)
[10:07] <lifeless> oh, I thought it was a few- minute thing ?
[10:07] <jdub> nup
[10:20] <debianist> moning again fellows
[10:20] <debianist> *morning
[10:21] <fabbione> jdub: 1187
[10:21] <fabbione> jdub: who is responsable for setting that stuff on ppc?
[10:21] <fabbione> jdub: for sure X is not
[10:24] <jdub> fabbione: sysctl
[10:24] <jdub> fabbione: but perhaps powerpc-utils could do it?
[10:24] <fabbione> jdub: i dunno really.. i don't have a ppc and i don't know all the specific ppc packages around
[10:24] <fabbione> perhaps ppc-utils
[10:24] <jdub> fabbione: i think kamion would have good ideas for this one
[10:25] <fabbione> ok
[10:26] <fabbione> it will also require a config file and all the nice things around it
[10:26] <fabbione> to preserve user settings and so on...
[10:27] <jdub> yo rburton 
[10:27] <rburton> yo yo jdub
[10:29] <fabbione> doko: are you still around?
[10:33] <rburton> does the ubuntu d-i grab the hostname from dhcp if it was sent?
[10:36] <fabbione> rburton: yeps
[10:36] <rburton> rock on
[10:54] <daniels> jdub: um, people.n-n-y.com has been working fine for me on rookery for a while now
[10:54] <daniels> silbs, lulu: 'morning :)
[10:54] <lulu> morning! :o)
[10:54] <pitti> lulu: Good morning!
[10:55] <lulu> pitt: hiya!
[10:59] <cef> daniels: want some video cards? *grin*
[11:00] <Kinnison> Morning
[11:04] <daniels> cef: heh :) 'twould be nifty
[11:04] <daniels> cef: i take it you don't have an r4xx? ;)
[11:05] <cef> daniels: if I had one, I wouldn't be giving it to you!
[11:06] <jamesh> daniels: Mark won't send you one? :)
[11:07] <cef> hey, I'm guessing this channel is going to get fairly busy once the preview is out.. has anyone given any thought to setting up another channel for sounders/dev/whatever ?
[11:16] <pitti> seb128: morning!
[11:17] <SurcouF> hi seb128 
[11:17] <seb128> hello
[11:26] <daniels> jamesh: haven't asked, really
[11:27] <jdub> cef: me might split off a developer channel if it gets too crowded, eyah
[11:28] <Keybuk> you could have another one for black-belt users ... #kung-fubuntu
[11:40] <fabbione> well... an ubuntu-devel channel will be almost mandatory
[11:40] <fabbione> i doubt we will be able to keep the load otherwise
[11:40] <cef> yeah
[11:41] <cef> and the other question that then comes to mind, is can we steal apt? *grin*
[11:41] <fabbione> ehehe
[11:42] <fabbione> uhu Seb is on fire!
[11:42] <fabbione> first 2.8 packages :-)))
[11:45] <seb128> :)
[11:46] <fabbione> GO SEB! GO SEB!
[11:46] <cef> is it ok to lart 'John' till he figures out what's wrong? *grin*
[11:46] <Mithrandir> crazy seb. :)
[11:56] <fabbione> ced
[11:56] <fabbione> ARGH
[11:56] <fabbione> cef
[11:57] <fabbione> food is good :-)
[11:57] <jdub> SEB! SEB! SEB! SEB! SEB!
[11:57] <cef> fabbione: esp since it's 8pm here
[11:57] <Kamion> pitti: please file a bug for that
[11:57] <fabbione> cef: 12 here :-)
[11:57] <pitti> Kamion: I did
[11:58] <thom> morning
[11:58] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks for reassigning the ppc thingy... i was waiting for you to wake up and ask :-)
[11:58] <fabbione> hey thom
[11:58] <pitti> thom: hi!
[11:59] <cef> ok time to see how 20040913 goes
[12:00] <jdub> yo AndyFitz 
[12:04] <AndyFitz> g'day jdub
[12:05] <AndyFitz> how are the application icons ?
[12:10] <fabbione> jdub: can we open hoary season while warty is in deep freeze?
[12:10] <fabbione> jdub: we might want to take advantage of this month time
[12:11] <fabbione> jdub: otherwise hoary will have a 5 months release schedule :-)
[12:11] <cef> fabbione: but then so will warty cos no one will be fixing bugs when they can hack on hoary
[12:12] <fabbione> cef: that's not completely true...
[12:12] <fabbione> because warty bug fixing is a must
[12:13] <cef> fabbione: true.. but probably still hoary will be a distraction. perhaps hoary could be opened up once the number of bugs gets small..eg: 2 weeks time
[12:13] <fabbione> cef: sure.. i didn't mean to open it right now
[12:13] <fabbione> cef: but in a decent time frame and not the day after warty is released
[12:14] <cef> actually.. there is an idea.. set a goal that once we get down to less than 10 RC bugs, hoary will open *grin*
[12:14] <pitti> jdub: I'm right at building a new snmpd that does not run as root any more (see #1151) and now I saw your freeze mail. Good timing...
[12:14] <fabbione> cef: 21 RC bugs found. :-)
[12:15] <pitti> jdub: it's a trivial change and another process not running as root any more is probably a good thing
[12:15] <pitti> jdub: can I upload it?
[12:17] <cef> hey, would it be worth adding a wrapper around apt-get in the after first reboot stage, so that people aren't staring at a boring apt display of packages being downloaded from archive.ubuntu.com ??
[12:17] <fabbione> daniels: i am afraid our ubuntu17 has been just trashed :)
[12:18] <pitti> freeze = suddenly stop all work? :-)
[12:18] <cef> freeze = fix bugs
[12:18] <fabbione> pitti: that's why i was asking for hoary ;)
[12:18] <pitti> cef: sure, that's why I put the :-) there
[12:18] <cef> pitti: from what you're describing, you're fixing a bug
[12:18] <fabbione> time to cook some food
[12:18] <pitti> cef: just kidding
[12:19] <pitti> cef: yes, #1151 is a bug, but it's only 'major'
[12:19] <cef> fabbione: cook me something!
[12:19] <pitti> fabbione: me too
[12:20] <pitti> cef: but I think the food will be cold and rotten until it arrives in Germany, let alone Brazil :-((
[12:20] <cef> pitti: and I'm in Australia.. *8-(
[12:20] <pitti> cef: oops, sorry, mixed that up. But same argument 
[12:20] <cef> yup
[12:21] <pitti> cef: can we have apt-get install food-replicator for hoary?
[12:21] <Kamion> jdub: are translation changes allowed?
[12:22] <Keybuk> Kamion: had an interesting conversation with Vidar about that re: dpkg in debian
[12:26] <debianist> Kamion fried himself a warty before he went to sleep last night ;-)
[12:27] <Keybuk> now there's a euphemism that was waiting to happen
[12:28] <Kinnison> ouch :'(
[12:31] <debianist> Keybuk : ?
[12:31] <Keybuk> debianist: trust me, you're better off *not* understanding my sense of humour
[12:32] <daniels> fabbione: ahr, heh
[12:33] <debianist> Keybuk : ok ;)
[12:34] <fabbione> pitti, cef: pasta with broccoli and saugages in white cream...
[12:34] <fabbione> hmmmm
[12:34] <AndyFitz> anyone using the artwork  update with  application icons in the human theme ?
[12:34] <fabbione> i am hungry :-)
[12:34] <debianist> fabbione : can I come? :-)
[12:34] <fabbione> debianist: hehehe
[12:34] <cef> fabbione: right.. I'm definitely off to buy food
[12:35] <cef> btw: I still can't see any way to create .iso files, or to raw copy disks.. *sigh*
[12:36] <cef> and fwiw: 20040913 worked great otherwise
[12:36] <cef> the archive manager will open .iso's, but it won't create them.. *8-(
[12:36] <cef> bbk
[12:36] <cef> FOOD!
[12:39] <Keybuk> morning boss
[12:40] <sabdfl> hey Keybuk, all
[12:40] <fabbione> hey sabdfl 
[12:40] <Kinnison> hi sabdfl 
[12:40] <sabdfl> think we should have gone for "winsome warthog" instead of "warty"?
[12:41] <seb128> hi sabdfl 
[12:41] <sabdfl> yo seb128
[12:41] <sabdfl> seb128: great work on the gnome packages, thank you!
[12:41] <seb128> thanks :)
[01:01] <lifeless> sabdfl: no way, warty has style
[01:01] <sabdfl> but relatively few warts :-)
[01:01] <lifeless> yea.
[01:01] <cef> think hoary was probably not the best choice tho *grin*
[01:02] <jamesh> would it really be a warthog without warts?
[01:02] <cef> relatively few warts is good! that way, people will think "and they think this is warty? wow, I've gotta see the next release!"
[01:02] <lifeless> sabdfl: do you think I can get access to an amd64 to fix a gnu-smalltalk ftbfs ?
[01:03] <lifeless> (in my own time, of course)
[01:03] <sabdfl> "hectic hedgehog"?
[01:04] <lifeless> hungover ?
[01:04] <thom> sabdfl: too south african :-)
[01:04] <cef> heh.. hungover sounds good.. it's what everyone will be after warty goes out the door..
[01:04] <sabdfl> yislaaik
[01:04] <lifeless> ok, now thats too sa
[01:04] <thom> izit?
[01:05] <sabdfl> lifeless: not one of our buildd's, sorry, rulez
[01:05] <cef> thom: we can only hope.. *grin*
[01:05] <fabbione> lifeless: are you in contact with Paolo?
[01:05] <lifeless> sabdfl: thats fine, had to ask.
[01:05] <lifeless> will we be providing such machines in the future? (ppc etc too I mean ?)
[01:06] <lifeless> fabbione: yes
[01:06] <lifeless> fabbione: he's just gone on holiday for a bit.
[01:06] <fabbione> lifeless: ok.. so am i for m68k and ia64 :-)
[01:06] <lifeless> fabbione: have you got fixes for 241258 ?
[01:07] <fabbione> cef, debianist, pitti: http://www.fabbione.net/pasta.jpg ;)
[01:08] <fabbione> lifeless: no. we are working on it
[01:08] <fabbione> lifeless: paolo gave me a bunch of patches, but none of them work
[01:08] <pitti> fabbione: thanks! But as much as I love virtual reality, there are times in life when one wants to bury it :-)
[01:08] <pitti> fabbione: enjoy!
[01:08] <lifeless> fabbione: ah.
[01:08] <fabbione> lifeless: pitti: i already did :P
[01:08] <fabbione> ops
[01:08] <fabbione> ^^pitti only
[01:09] <lifeless> fabbione:  have you tried 2.1.8 ?
[01:09] <lifeless> only 2.1.7 is in debian at the moment.
[01:09] <fabbione> lifeless: 2.1.8-2 is the last one i uploaded to debian
[01:09] <fabbione> lifeless: Version: 2.1.8-2
[01:10] <fabbione> i sponsor Brett (that is also one of my NM)
[01:10] <cef> fabbione: 1. mmmmm! 2. is that a washing machine under that bench?
[01:10] <fabbione> cef: 1) it was gnammy 2) yet
[01:10] <fabbione> yes
[01:11] <lifeless> fabbione: arh. Ok, I must be seeing warty :}
[01:11] <cef> not sure if I want to know why there is a washing machine in your kitchen, or wether it's your kitchen.. no, please don't tell me!
[01:11] <lifeless> well 2.2.0 will be hosted in tla :}
[01:12] <fabbione> cef: because there is not much space in the house.. so the washing machine is in the kitchen... nothing too fancy ;)
[01:12] <Oskuro> seb128: ping
[01:12] <fabbione> lifeless: yeah ehhehe
[01:12] <fabbione> cef: it's not like i wash the food in it :-P
[01:12] <Keybuk> my washing machine's in my kitchen
[01:18] <fabbione> what is the general feeling for 1160?
[01:19] <fabbione> the first decision was: "if you can connect to no-name-yet.com, don't ask for the proxy"
[01:19] <fabbione> Kamion: when you updated base-config & Co, did you also update choose-mirror?
[01:20] <fabbione> oh yeah.. goody :-)
[01:23] <seb128> Oskuro: pong ?
[01:24] <Oskuro> seb128: has ubuntu thought about PageMaker like apps to include, or is that completely outside of the scope?
[01:25] <seb128> no idea, I don't even know PageMaker
[01:25] <jdub> Oskuro: definitely in scope for our next release :-)
[01:25] <jdub> Oskuro: but not for warty ;)
[01:25] <jamesh> of course, Adobe doesn't really push PageMaker these days
[01:26] <jamesh> InDesign seems to be the replacement product
[01:28] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, as you saw :)
[01:28] <Keybuk> Oskuro: we have TeX, what more do you want? :p
[01:29] <jamesh> One thing that surprised me is how buggy PageMaker and InDesign are (PageMaker more so)
[01:30] <jamesh> the knowledge base articles frequently tell you to save often with different filenames
[01:30] <jamesh> and if you run into problems to go back to the last working file
[01:30] <jamesh> (rather than giving real fixes for problems)
[01:31] <Kamion> fabbione: if the stuff that adds archive.ubuntu.com used the same framework as the normal ftp/http questions rather than being a totally independent thing stuck on the end of apt-setup, it would be a lot better
[01:31] <fabbione> Kamion: complain with cdrom installation :(
[01:31] <Kamion> fabbione: EPARSE
[01:31] <fabbione> Kamion: the main loop is not entered at all when installing from cdrom
[01:32] <Kamion> fabbione: like it or not, it's our default
[01:32] <fabbione> Kamion: i don't complain but i can't use the same framework
[01:32] <Kamion> well, ok; maybe split that stuff out into a function?
[01:32] <Kamion> it's certainly annoying that you can't pick the hostname
[01:32] <Kamion> I have a local mirror which is much faster than archive.ubuntu.com
[01:33] <fabbione> Kamion: so do i...
[01:33] <fabbione> netinstall will respect the mirror you select
[01:33] <fabbione> i can't do the same for cdrom install
[01:33] <Kamion> maybe we shouldn't be using quite such a big stick on cdrom installs then
[01:33] <fabbione> at least not without asking a question
[01:33] <Kamion> apt-setup in Debian was not designed to be clobbered that way ...
[01:34] <fabbione> Kamion: i was told to do so.. by sabdfl and mdz...
[01:34] <Kamion> they didn't specify implementation
[01:34] <fabbione> to test the line and add it if it works or add it commented if not
[01:34] <fabbione> well i took that kind of operation from security
[01:34] <fabbione> i didn't reinvent the wheel
[01:34] <Kamion> yes, I know, but security is quite different
[01:35] <fabbione> the only thing i added was the check of deb-src
[01:35] <Kamion> I think that approach is sane for security, it's just not sane for the normal archive
[01:35] <fabbione> that was in the TODO list anyway
[01:35] <fabbione> Kamion: i understand what you mean... but than even on CD install we need to ask for a mirror
[01:35] <fabbione> if that's ok for people, it is ok for me
[01:36] <fabbione> and perhaps it can come up much cleaner than it is now
[01:39] <Kamion> I've mailed sounder@
[01:42] <Kamion> seb128: isn't fixing poor English grammar like that just a matter of unfuzzying translations?
[01:42] <seb128> yes, probably
[01:42] <cef> any plans to add multisync at some stage?
[01:43] <seb128> Kamion: patches are welcome :p
[01:43] <Mithrandir> cef: to Ubuntu?  I think there's interest in it, yes.
[01:43] <Kamion> seb128: heh, like I have time at the moment ... :-)
[01:43] <seb128> Kamion: and you think I have more time ? :)
[01:44] <Kamion> not really :)
[01:44] <cef> ok well I can test it with a number of PocketPC/CE devices of varying models/versions
[01:45] <cef> and probably various palms as well (this is if I raid work for them all)
[01:45] <Mithrandir> cef: try talking to mdz about it?
[01:45] <cef> Mithrandir: perhaps.. no use now till hoary anyway
[01:46] <Mithrandir> cef: look at wiki:WartyWarthog_2fBounties, last one
[01:47] <cef> heh..
[01:48] <Mithrandir> I guess it'll be a hoary thing, then
[01:57] <cef> ??
[02:00] <Kamion> cef: ftp.no-name-yet.com -> archive.ubuntu.com
[02:00] <cef> aha
[02:20] <Kamion> wow, gnome-stones is a really poor version of the classic game
[02:20] <Kamion> or at least the level choice is poor
[02:25] <jdub> Kamion: what's your preferred recent daily for mass testing?
[02:26] <Kamion> today's seems fine
[02:31] <Oskuro> jdub: good to hear :)
[02:31] <Oskuro> passepartout seems to have some potential
[02:31] <debianist> the sensitivity level for the mx700 wireless mouse is too high, tried setting the lowest i could on gnome ouse settings - still too high
[02:36] <jaq> these are some damn fast bug response and fix times :-)
[02:40] <thom> tempfile was invented for a reason!
[02:40] <thom> base="`basename $1 | sed '/\./s/\.[^.] *$//'`"
[02:40] <thom> tagsfile="$base.nwt"
[02:40] <thom> tmpfile="$tagsfile.$$"
[02:50] <debianist> pitti : around?
[02:50] <pitti> debianist: sure
[02:50] <pitti> I'm overwhelmed in security bugs
[02:51] <debianist> pitti : DSA-129-1 , again a pkg in (/pool/main && /pool/universe)
[02:51] <debianist> pitti : what does it mean when a package is in both?
[02:52] <pitti> debianist: just as in Debian, the highest version number is preferred
[02:52] <pitti> debianist: so if a bug is not fixed in main, but fixed in a higher version of universe, it should get fixed in main
[02:53] <debianist> pitti : ok
[02:53] <pitti> debianist: but actually main packages shouldn't have a lower version than packages in universe, this could lead to hard-to-find errors
[02:53] <pitti> debianist: can you please ask elmo about this?
[02:53] <cef> jdub: i installed 20040913 earlier.. worked like a charm
[02:53] <debianist> pitti : about this specific dsa?
[02:54] <pitti> debianist: about this multiple-versions problem in general
[02:54] <debianist> pitti : ok.
[02:54] <debianist> elmo : here?
[02:56] <thom> pitti: i have an upload ready for noweb, btw
[02:56] <pitti> thom: with the fixed tmp creation?
[02:56] <thom> yeah
[02:56] <pitti> thom: I'm right at fixing it.
[02:56] <pitti> thom: great timing, thanks!
[02:56] <pitti> did you also completely rewrite patch 002_tmp_fix?
[02:57] <thom> yep
[02:57] <thom> cos that's a fugly mess
[02:57] <pitti> thom: great! Can you upload it and annouce it to #271146?
[02:57] <thom> just waiting for the build-deps to come down so i can test it, then i will
[02:58] <pitti> thom: thanks!
[02:58] <thom> heh, no problem :-)
[03:02] <debianist> pitti : boy that was hot stuff ;)
[03:03] <pitti> debianist: finished?
[03:03] <debianist> pitti : on my way
[03:04] <pitti> debianist: congrats!
[03:06] <pitti> thom: ah, I just saw that duplicate bug. that explains the duplication of effort :-)
[03:06] <thom> ya
[03:06] <thom> oh well :-)
[03:09] <jdub> cef: thanks!
[03:09] <Kamion> hmm, archive-copier could do with some special cases
[03:09] <Kamion> it copies linux-image-2.6.8.1-2-{power3,power4,powerpc}
[03:09] <Kamion> copying all three is rather unnecessary
[03:10] <pitti> Kamion: why this archive-copier is enabled by default anyway? To me it looks like a waste of hd space and time
[03:10] <Kamion> pitti: Mark's decision; it lets you avoid having to put the CD back in in the second stage
[03:10] <Kamion> Mark's idea, too
[03:10] <pitti> Kamion: the powerpcs don't boot from cd by default anyway, so the CD could be left in the drive
[03:11] <pitti> Kamion: okay; unavoidable argument :-)
[03:11] <Kamion> works on powermac but not elsewhere, and it's probably better to be consistent
[03:11] <Kamion> I'm not terribly happy with the waste of time either, but you *can* boot with archive-copier/copy=false to disable it
[03:12] <debianist> pitti : i can't reach elmo
[03:12] <Kamion> we'll be documenting that
[03:12] <pitti> Kamion: ah! That should be explained in the help texts. thanks for that hin!
[03:12] <pitti> Kamion: s/hin/hint/
[03:12] <Kamion> probably won't fit on the boot screens but we'll have a manual to play with ...
[03:12] <pitti> debianist: mail?
[03:12] <debianist> pitti : right
[03:12] <debianist> pitti : apache pkg is also on both pools
[03:12] <debianist> :(
[03:13] <pitti> debianist: or maybe somebody else can help
[03:13] <debianist> right
[03:13] <pitti> Kamion: do you happen to know why some packages are in main _and_ universe?
[03:13] <Kamion> no ...
[03:13] <Kamion> sounds like a bug
[03:13] <pitti> Kamion: if a package is never in universe, it will be prefered, right?
[03:13] <pitti> Kamion: and the Warty changes are lost.
[03:14] <Kamion> only if it has a higher version in universe, which is rather unlikely isn't it?
[03:14] <pitti> debianist: maybe you can bring this up at the ailing list
[03:14] <Kamion> since we haven't been syncing universe
[03:14] <pitti> Kamion: I don't know about the sync policy in the future
[03:14] <pitti> Kamion: if we don't sync, we lose security and other fixes
[03:15] <pitti> Kamion: on example is gnocatan, I requested a sync to get rid of a security bug
[03:15] <Kamion> given that they're (AFAIK) identical
[03:15] <Kamion> pitti: yes but I mean not routinely
[03:15] <thom> jdub: you happy with an upload to fix 1158?
[03:15] <Kamion> pitti: I don't think there's a need to debate the rights and wrongs really, it's clearly a bug :)
[03:15] <pitti> Kamion: okay, thanks for that info
[03:17] <debianist> pitti : i started spotting this only when i searched after the first oocurence...
[03:17] <debianist> pitti : how can we decide if a package should be on main or universe?
[03:18] <debianist> pitti : i'm taking this to the mailing list
[03:18] <pitti> debianist: main is calculated automatically from the Seeds
[03:18] <pitti> debianist: so every package that is in main shouldn't be in universe
[03:18] <debianist> pitti : ok, we need a script ot fix up bugged packages list. find each package on main, and remove from universe.
[03:19] <pitti> debianist: this should be easy to do on the apt lists
[03:19] <debianist> pitti : problem is, i had already disregarded package in sake of saving time, because the first oocurence on the pkg file was _universe_
[03:20] <pitti> debianist: ugh. I removed universe from the apt sources when doing apt-cache things during the review
[03:20] <debianist> pitti : that was a good idea
[03:20] <debianist> pitti : shame I didn't
[03:21] <pitti> debianist: no reason to be ashamed :-)
[03:21] <pitti> debianist: if you even considered the universe packages and found no vulnerability, then the Warty packages cannot be worse
[03:22] <pitti> debianist: the only pitfal would be if you discovered a vulnerable universe package which is also in main
[03:22] <pitti> debianist: but we would like to know about them anyway because they must be fixed in Debian, too
[03:23] <debianist> pitti : ok, i need a main only pkg list, and after my first scan through the DSAs, i'll work my universe list, see which pkgs are truely in main, and consder those
[03:24] <debianist> pitti : all the unconsidered pkgs (due to universe) are in one list, so i'll work them out with a main's only list.
[03:24] <pitti> debianist: maybe the fastest method would be to first determine the packages which are in main _and_ universe
[03:24] <pitti> debianist: and then intersect this list with the DSA-affected packages
[03:25] <pitti> debianist: the remaining ones shouldn't be too many :-)
[03:25] <debianist> pitti : ok, i can try through a perly at it, however might take some time
[03:25] <pitti> debianist: I can do the script if you want
[03:25] <debianist> pitti : great!
[03:27] <debianist> pitti : zip it before you send
[03:29] <debianist> pitti : i have to go now , be back in about half an hour. send me the script when you're done, i'll continue then
[03:31] <debianist> pitti : have the script output _only_ those in main, so i'll know to drill down them
[03:31] <pitti> debianist: the script will print out the packages which are in main+restricted _and_ universe
[04:12] <pitti> @all: can anybody test rdesktop? I would like to have a word about the status of http://bugs.debian.org/189381
[04:15] <pitti> Kinnison: that would be great! I don't have any Windows boxes to connect to
[04:15] <Kamion> seb128: FYI, the pmu error message is different now (has been for a little while)
[04:15] <Kamion> seb128: it says "Permissions on the file /dev/pmu are broken"
[04:15] <Kamion> seb128: I can't easily get to bugzilla right now, but maybe that helps you to grep
[04:16] <seb128> yes, I've seen that on the bug reopened
[04:17] <Kamion> ah, ok
[04:17] <seb128> I'm wondering if I should just remove the msg
[04:17] <Kinnison> pitti: If I have an rdesktop window open; and I choose lock-screen from the gnome menu; it doesn't lock until I de-focus the rdesktop window
[04:17] <seb128> since it seems to work accordind to the comments
[04:17] <Kinnison> pitti: and my password doesn't turn up in a notepad inside the rdesktop
[04:17] <Kamion> I don't notice anything gratuitously failing to work, but of course my powerbook doesn't sleep anyway ...
[04:18] <pitti> Kinnison: that's great! So this means that the bug has been fixed now.
[04:18] <pitti> Kamion: Thanks a lot!
[04:18] <pitti> Kamion: do you want to write a followup to the bug on your own or shall I do that?
[04:19] <Kamion> pitti: would you mind? my bugzilla password is, er, somewhere, and the firefox on the freshly installed system obviously doesn't remember it ...
[04:19] <pitti> Kamion: I meant the Debian bug, but I can do that anyway.
[04:19] <pitti> Kamion: sorry, wrong adress; should be Kinnison
[04:20] <pitti> Kinnison: I write the followup. Did the time-based lock work as well?
[04:20] <Kamion> pitti: aha, right
[04:25] <Kinnison> pitti: yep; time-based lock worked too; I don't have time to do a writeup just now; but you're welcome to quote that I tested it and it seemed to work
[04:25] <Kinnison> pitti: rdesktop 1.3.1-1
[04:25] <Kinnison> pitti: I'm dsilvers@debian.org
[04:25] <pitti> Kinnison: thanks a lot!
[04:25] <Kinnison> pitti: that's okay
[05:05] <debianist> pitti : back, i want the script to output only those packages which i need to consider, you're opting for that?
[05:06] <pitti> debianist: did you already read the mail?
[05:06] <debianist> pitti : in the while, has anybody any clue about that pkg lists bug?
[05:06] <pitti> debianist: I did not find any duplicates
[05:06] <pitti> debianist: maybe you should apt-get update?
[05:06] <pitti> debianist: although I doubt that the seeds changed recently
[05:08] <debianist> pitti : darn, i think i don't have restricted on my sources.
[05:08] <debianist> pitti : how's that line going?
[05:09] <pitti> debianist: but that should not lead to duplicates in the other two
[05:09] <pitti> debianist: just add restricted where main and universe are
[05:10] <debianist> pitti : done, apt-get updating, than checking an example duplicated pacakge.
[05:10] <pitti> debianist: stop
[05:10] <debianist> pitti : stopped
[05:10] <debianist> pitti : btw, i am using aptitude, could this be the issue?
[05:10] <pitti> debianist: before you upgrade, can you please check with the script whether your old apt lists have duplicates?
[05:10] <pitti> debianist: I don't know, but aptitude should use apt
[05:10] <debianist> pitti : just exec the script from the directory i put it in?
[05:11] <debianist> pitti : (chmod ofcourse)
[05:11] <pitti> debianist: yep
[05:11] <debianist> pitii : hold on, checking...
[05:12] <debianist> pitti : Source packages that occurr both in (main+restricted) and universe:
[05:12] <debianist> cat: /var/lib/apt/lists/*restricted_source_Sources: No such file or directory
[05:12] <debianist> *******************************************************
[05:12] <debianist> Binary packages that occurr both in (main+restricted) and universe:
[05:12] <debianist> cat: /var/lib/apt/lists/*restricted_binary-*_Packages: No such file or directory
[05:12] <debianist> : command not foundline 14:
[05:12] <debianist> pitti : i don't have restricted packages list...
[05:12] <pitti> debianist: so if you don't have the restricted packages, just delete them from the script
[05:12] <pitti> debianist: or add them to your apt sources
[05:12] <debianist> pitti : ok, hold on
[05:22] <thom> pitti: have you looked at 1199 or shall i take it (Samba DOS)
[05:23] <pitti> thom: so far I did not look at it
[05:23] <pitti> thom: so if you have time for it, go ahead :-)
[05:24] <pitti> thom: you didn't upload noweb yet, did you?
[05:24] <sabdfl> lamont: ping
[05:24] <lamont> yes
[05:24] <sabdfl> i just installed postfix on a machine which used to have exim4
[05:24] <sabdfl> got a ton of questions
[05:24] <thom> pitti: nope, waiting on approval
[05:25] <lamont> is the debconf priority < high?
[05:25] <sabdfl> yes
[05:25] <lamont> then you'll get lots of questions
[05:25] <lamont> and can hit return to almost all of them.
[05:25] <sabdfl> yes, and we need to clean those up, because many of them seem spurious
[05:26] <sabdfl> first, is there any reason to have retained the HP option?
[05:26] <lamont> the "get rid of postfix questions" changes were all done by changing the debconf priority, and adjusting the priority of a few questions that used to be high, but could be low.
[05:26] <lamont> not breaking translations
[05:26] <lamont> but that's the only reason
[05:26] <sabdfl> we really need to clean the package up
[05:27] <lamont> I'll upload a new postfix to debian with the HP option gone, to get things headed the right way on translations
[05:27] <sabdfl> it's a major piece of infrastructure, and having it crufty beneath the surface is giving me the shits
[05:27] <sabdfl> translations we can fix over time
[05:28] <lamont> If you don't mind the translation issues, I can certainly pull the HP option after wednesday
[05:28] <sabdfl> jdub: i understand it's not great for warty
[05:28] <sabdfl> jdub: for hoary, we will have split out translations, so they can continue to be improved post-release
[05:28] <lamont> unsure what parts are crufty, other than the install still being very debian in flavor...
[05:28] <jdub> sabdfl: yeah, that'd be nice.
[05:28] <sabdfl> lamont: i'm going to run through it with you now, should we switch to a separate channel?
[05:29] <lamont> works for me..
[05:29] <debianist> pitti : here?
[05:30] <pitti> debianist: yep
[05:30] <debianist> pitti : darn, my house is going under redecorations and remount, the painter disconnected my power cord :-p
[05:30] <debianist> pitti : retrying ths script...
[05:31] <pitti> debianist: ugh, disconnecting power is ugly :-/
[05:31] <pitti> lamont: is #1198 the only outstanding issue from the 2004 DSAs?
[05:32] <debianist> pitti : good i had the sweetest reiserfs install with this version of warty
[05:32] <pitti> debianist: BTW, did you find any open issues in the 2002 DSAs? How far did you come with it?
[05:33] <debianist> pitti : not really :) i have left more 132-->150 , and reconsider duplicates
[05:34] <lamont> pitti: no - I got hijacked and saveed my changes until I could get back to them.
[05:34] <lamont> 540,496, and Debian #263612
[05:34] <lamont> DSA-{540,496}, that is
[05:35] <pitti> lamont: they are unapplied in Warty? I have a look at them and file bugs, if necessary
[05:36] <lamont> 540 is the sync request in our bts
[05:36] <lamont> 486 is proof that I can't read my fonts some days...
[05:37] <lamont> CAN-2004-{0180,0405} are 486, and I couldn't find them in the debian bts, which could just be age, or it could be that they're not fixed.  No mention in changelog
[06:03] <sabdfl> anybody know why I have *:sunrpc (tcp and udp) and *:bootpc (udp) listening after a fresh warty install?
[06:03] <Keybuk> sunrpc is portmap, needed for fam
[06:03] <Keybuk> bootpc is your dhcp client
[06:03] <jdub> (but portmap is configured to refuse all connections anyway)
[06:03] <jdub> (and we can remove it from the desktop release in hoary, because we'll replace fam)
[06:05] <sabdfl> Keybuk: why does dhcp client need to listen?
[06:06] <mdz> morning
[06:06] <sabdfl> mdz: hi
[06:07] <mdz> sabdfl: for portmap, see #505
[06:07] <Kinnison> sabdfl: it has to have a port open in order to receive the DHCP replies from the server
[06:07] <sabdfl> Kinnison: but then surely it can close the thing and be done with till its lease expires?
[06:10] <Kinnison> Hmm, doesn't look like that's the case
[06:11] <lamont> Kamion: you around?
[06:11] <Kinnison> rfc2131 isn't exactly readable :-(
[06:11] <mdz> daniels: yes, the public wiki
[06:13] <Kinnison> sabdfl: unless I'm totally wrong in my interpretation of the DHCP state transition diagram in rfc2131 it would be correct within the protocol to close the socket when in the BOUND state
[06:13] <Kinnison> I guess the client isn't that clever though
[06:13] <pitti> lamont: CAN-2004-0405 is fixed, it's contained in the upstream tarball of cvs
[06:14] <lamont> and the other?
[06:14] <Kamion> lamont: yep?
[06:14] <pitti> lamont: still checking...
[06:14] <lamont> Kamion: what fqdn does the poor machine get at install time?
[06:14] <lamont> or hostname, rather?
[06:15] <Kinnison> sabdfl: which dhcp client are you using?
[06:15] <lamont> Kamion: really trying to figure out what the magic guesses d-i makes are, wrt hostname
[06:15] <Kamion> TBH I'd suggest you look at the netcfg source
[06:15] <Kamion> $ hostname
[06:15] <Kamion> arborlon-wireless
[06:15] <Kamion> $ hostname --fqdn
[06:15] <Kamion> localhost.localdomain
[06:15] <Kamion> *shrug*
[06:16] <Kamion> I'm not entirely convinced by all of those but it's very hard to get it right without asking questions
[06:16] <Kamion> Kinnison: dhcp3-client's the warty default
[06:17] <Kinnison> Kamion: *nod*
[06:17] <lamont> Kamion: yeah - let me rephrase that... is there a way that postfix's config script can find out if you asked those questions or not?
[06:17] <pitti> lamont: CAN-2004-180 is also fixed
[06:17] <pitti> lamont: upstream just did it differently from the original patch
[06:17] <pitti> lamont: so cvs is clean :-)
[06:17] <Kamion> lamont: doubt it
[06:17] <lamont> Kamion: yeah - I was afraid of that. :-(
[06:18] <Kamion> lamont: you can't really get at the d-i cdebconf database unless you're base-config
[06:18] <Kamion> and even that's gross
[06:18] <lamont> pitti: well, of those two, anyway
[06:18] <pitti> lamont: yes :-)
[06:18] <pitti> lamont: I take a look at this mozilal bug
[06:18] <pitti> lamont: mozilla
[06:19] <lamont> pitti: couldn't reproduce on firefox, btw
[06:19] <pitti> lamont: I just tried it on my own, firefox does not crash.
[06:19] <pitti> lamont: http://scary.beasts.org/misc/pngtest_bad.png ?
[06:19] <lamont> yep
[06:19] <pitti> lamont: nevertheless, I look into the sources to verify
[06:20] <lamont> but we should check the other moz-based browsers, yes?
[06:20] <pitti> lamont: I had a similar imlib bug this morning which were not reproducible with a test picture
[06:20] <pitti> lamont: however, the overflow still existed.
[06:20] <thom> i've checked all the mozilla based browsers for the pngtest
[06:20] <thom> did it ages ago
[06:21] <lamont> pitti: thanks
[06:21] <pitti> lamont: np
[06:21] <mdz> pitti: doing a quick test of your snmp changes, and then I'l OK it for upload
[06:22] <pitti> mdz: thanks
[06:22] <pitti> mdz: BTW, why does it hurt to sync gtksee to universe?
[06:25] <pitti> lamont: when will they learn _not_ to include library code in other packages? *sigh*
[06:25] <lamont> pitti: when people start making shared libs for their packages?
[06:26] <debianist> pitti : we should ask upstream maintainers and advice them about it
[06:26] <pitti> lamont: err, there have been shlib packages for libpng for ages now
[06:26] <lamont> yeah, well, if it ain't broke don't muck with it. :-(
[06:26] <lamont> mind you, I agree with you.
[06:26] <pitti> :-)
[06:27] <lamont> it's always a hysterical^Whistorical reason when they do it.
[06:27] <lamont> well, almost always
[06:27] <pitti> lamont: well, mozilla-browser is at 1.7.2, which is claimed to be fixed...
[06:29] <lamont> pitti: kewl
[06:29] <pitti> lamont: what does "kewl" mean?
[06:30] <thom> pitti: it's"cool" spelt sillily
[06:30] <pitti> thom: ah, thanks.
[06:30] <debianist> thom : i heared germen dudes use that for cool :)
[06:31] <pitti> debianist: I doubt that
[06:31] <pitti> debianist: cool is a genuine German word!
[06:31] <pitti> debianist: (or so)
[06:31] <debianist> pitti : hahah
[06:31] <debianist> pitti : you from germany? 
[06:31] <pitti> debianist: 90% of today's youngsters from Germany would claim that
[06:31] <pitti> debianist: I am
[06:31] <debianist> pitti : yey! i might be visiting there sometime soon ;)
[06:31] <pitti> debianist: today's German is so infiltrated by English words...
[06:32] <debianist> pitti : somebody told me KDE is from Kool Desktop envir..
[06:32] <pitti> debianist: when they first invented it, the K had no special meaning (AFAIK)
[06:32] <pitti> but Kool is certainly not the worst interpretation
[06:33] <debianist> pitti : well, that also. but the Kool (he explained me that C is stressed in germen, and sounds like K
[06:33] <lamont> pitti: yesterday's German is derrived from yesterday's english, you know... :)
[06:33] <debianist> pitti : sound kooler ;)
[06:34] <pitti> lamont: so much for Blitzkrieg, Sauerkraut and Kindergarten :-)
[06:34] <pitti> lamont: or Zugzwang (I've hear that in some English chess discussions)
[06:34] <lamont> pitti: I meant that language called 'Old English'
[06:34] <pitti> lamont: don't know much about it
[06:34] <lamont> modern english and german both derrive from it.
[06:35] <pitti> lamont: well, the German translation ("khl") sounds very similar
[06:36] <Mithrandir> pitti: KDE certainly stood for Kool Desktop Environment at some point; I distinctly remember seeing it on kde.org
[06:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, some time ago they officially declared it as K interpretation
[06:37] <debianist> pitti : 15 to go
[06:37] <pitti> Mithrandir: I just talked about the birth of the project; at that time it was supposed to resemble CDE, so C -> K
[06:38] <Mithrandir> pitti: I think this was around KDE 1.0 or something..
[06:38] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes
[06:45] <pitti> lamont: the mozilla 1.7.2 contains a totally different libpng version, but it seems that another thing (libpr0n) is used now. The latter one is patched
[06:49] <pitti> lamont: same for mozilla-firefox
[06:54] <npmccallum__> Kamion: ping
[06:57] <Kamion> npmccallum__: yes?
[06:57] <npmccallum__> Kamion: I'm updating the initscript for ssh-server, but when I do debuild -S it changes the debconf translation, how do I get around that?
[06:58] <Kamion> what are the changes?
[06:58] <npmccallum> Kamion: I'll email you a diff
[06:58] <Kamion> ok
[07:00] <npmccallum> Kamion: which email should I use?
[07:00] <Kamion> cjwatson@canonical.com
[07:00] <npmccallum> k
[07:02] <npmccallum> Kamion: sent
[07:10] <Kamion> this auto-browse thing is annoying when you're installing packages from CD
[07:11] <pitti> Keybuk: why did you close #canonical?
[07:11] <Keybuk> #ubuntu is the channel to discuss everything on
[07:12] <pitti> Keybuk: I thought we wanted to have a private channel in addition
[07:13] <Keybuk> everything distro-related is public now
[07:13] <Keybuk> release is day after tomorrow, dude :p
[07:13] <Keybuk> well, preview
[07:16] <Kamion> npmccallum: looks like you don't have po-debconf installed; I suggest installing it
[07:17] <Kamion> npmccallum: shouldn't 'start' do check_for_no_start and check_privsep_dir *before* saying "Starting OpenBSD Secure Shell server"?
[07:17] <jdub> back soon :-)
[07:18] <Kamion> jdub: lazy tramp
[07:18] <jdub> ;)
[07:18] <Kamion> I mean, a whole three hours
[07:18] <npmccallum> Kamion: its nice to know what script is running, but if you want something different, thats ok
[07:18] <jdub> Kamion: hey, i traded it up on the sleep bonds scheme!
[07:18] <jdub> *zonk*
[07:29] <lamont> Keybuk: bouncy bouncy...:-)
[07:30] <Keybuk> yeah :-/
[07:30] <Keybuk> IRC cusk
[07:31] <[Clint] > how rude
[07:32] <Keybuk> heh
[07:32] <Keybuk> I was getting worried there was an upper limit on kicks-per-second or something
[07:32] <Keybuk> though I did pause for a second before kicking Mark off <g>
[07:37] <lamont> npmccallum: you around, or just bouncing?
[07:40] <npmccallum> lamont: I'm around
[07:41] <lamont> ah, found stuff.  Gotta learn to read better.
[07:43] <npmccallum> Kamion: I *do* actually have po-debconf installed, so that isn't the issue with the ssh-server changes
[07:49] <seb128> lamont: could you check if nautilus is building/ftbfsing/... ?
[07:51] <lamont> Requested 'eel-2.0 >= 2.8.0' but version of eel is 2.7.92
[07:51] <lamont> and not versioned in the Build-Depends, either... 
[07:51] <lamont> you saw the libgnomeprint bug?
[07:52] <seb128> not fixed ?
[07:52] <seb128> lamont: what about nautilus/eel ... wrong Build-dep ?
[07:53] <lamont> seb128: fixed.
[07:53] <seb128> ok, thanks
[07:53] <lamont> seb128: I expect that the version of the build-dep doesn't match the requirement checked in the source...
[07:54] <seb128> Build-Depends: ... libeel2-dev (>= 2.7.92)
[07:54] <lamont> I also expect that you uploaded eel2 2.8.0, and it just hadn't made it to the archive when we tried to do nautilus
[07:54] <seb128> EEL_REQUIRED=2.8.0
[07:54] <seb128> ok
[07:54] <seb128> that's it :)
[07:54] <lamont> so the build-deps were met, but not well enough..:-(
[07:54] <lamont> it'll build this pass.
[07:55] <seb128> ok, better if I re-upload with the right Build-Depends BTW
[07:55] <lamont> it certainly wouldn't be a _bad_ thing to do so.
[08:01] <lamont> fabbione/daniels around?
[08:03] <lamont> NVCtrl.o: ELF 32-bit LSB relocatable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
[08:03] <lamont> that'd be a 'yes' :-)
[08:08] <lucas_> hi
[08:39] <mdz> lamont: if it depends on the nvidia X bits, then it wants to be i386-only
[08:40] <dieman> hmm
[08:40] <dieman> is it ok if i rsync the archive off of ftp.no-name-yet.com?
[08:41] <mdz> thom: I have no messages pending in my jabber window
[08:41] <mdz> unless it is lying to me about being disconnected
[08:41] <mdz> or to you :-)
[08:41] <mdz> s/dis//
[08:41] <mdz> thom: it says you are away
[08:41] <thom> mdz: gaim claims to me that you're available
[08:42] <thom> and i'm not away
[08:42] <thom> meh
[08:42] <thom> feh
[08:42] <thom> you're happy for a new upstream version of samba ?(just want to clarify your comment in #1199)
[08:42] <kagou> hi guys
[08:42] <thom> damn modern technology
[08:42] <thom> dieman: archive.ubuntu.com may well prove to be more stable
[08:43] <dieman> ahh
[08:43] <dieman> thanks
[08:43] <npmccallum> does anyone know why when I do debuild -S it screws up debconf templates?  I do have po-debconf installed...
[08:44] <thom> dieman: (that's the ...canonical... location, anyway) ;-)
[08:44] <kagou> mdz, i'v have found some ideas for the bug 1153
[08:44] <mdz> thom: yes
[08:44] <mdz> thom: samba is very sane in their release management
[08:44] <thom> ok
[08:45] <thom> i assumed that was what you meant, and am doing it. just wanted to check
[08:45] <thom> (damn, i wish we had hct)
[08:46] <mdz> hah, he's hiding
[08:48] <thom> coward
[08:52] <dieman> hrm
[08:52] <dieman> stupid packetshaping thing here on campus is screwing me
[08:53] <dieman> on inbound traffic.
[08:53] <dieman> i think its broken today :|
[09:04] <thom> mdz: what's the status of 986? 
[09:04] <mdz> thom: it's in elmo's hands
[09:05] <mdz> elmo: ping?
[09:11] <dieman> hes fairly idle
[09:11] <dieman> he tried catching me last night, but i was busy, i've not seen him since
[09:13] <debianist> pitti : send you emails :-).
[09:13] <debianist> pitti : s/send/sent
[09:16] <mdz> ah, elmo is elmo_dc
[09:18] <justdave> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/591
[09:20] <Kamion> npmccallum: see the first couple of pages of debian/rules; there's a bunch of encoding-munging there
[09:20] <justdave> hmm, guess that's a couple weeks old (just noticed the date)
[09:21] <justdave> someone else had just pointed that out to me :)
[09:21] <Kamion> npmccallum: make sure that the stuff that sticks 1 in debian/po/output is firing
[09:25] <whiprush> hey alextreme, been a long time. ;)
[09:25] <alextreme> hey whiprush, how's life? :)
[09:25] <whiprush> good good. Good to see you in here, heh.
[09:25] <npmccallum> Kamion: its happening on multiple packages, not just ssh
[09:26] <alextreme> it's a small world :)
[09:27] <Kamion> npmccallum: want me to do the openssh one, if you have a deadline? I know I can build it reliably :)
[09:27] <Kamion> npmccallum: you might have too-old versions of some things, perhaps
[09:27] <Kamion> npmccallum: might wanna mail me the build log ...
[09:28] <Kamion> anyway, off to relax now
[10:01] <mdz> jabber.org is borked
[10:13] <[Clint] > deborked
[10:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: have you seen any of the NX stuff?  It would be cool to have a nice and working terminal server for hoary.
[10:16] <lamont> mdz: around?
[10:17] <dieman> haha
[10:17] <dieman> one of my coworkers had reservations about the nsfw image at http://sounders:oink@wiki.no-name-yet.com/WartyWarthog_2fImages
[10:18] <dieman> i had to explain, 'oh, thats marks fault i bet.'
[10:20] <mdz> lamont: yes
[10:21] <mdz> Mithrandir: right now, Hoary is a place where I make lists, and little more :-)
[10:21] <lamont> finally actually saw that there was an attachment...  Which failed to apply to my kernel source tree, since it's already there...
[10:22] <Mithrandir> mdz: if you think "terminal server which leaves MS in its tracks" is a good goal, chalk it up? :)
[10:23] <mdz> Mithrandir: go ahead and add it to the list with a question mark
[10:23] <Mithrandir> ok
[10:24] <mdz> lamont: as Herbert said, you need to _revert_ that patch
[10:24] <lamont> ah, revert...
[10:24] <lamont> doh
[10:39] <mdz> fabbione, daniels: here?
[10:59] <pitti> Good night, guys!
[11:12] <lamont> mdz/keybuk: any clues on how to fix the fact that apt-get install postfix-tls fails (postfix is not to be installed) on a machine with exim installed? (postfix-tls Depends: postfix, which provides/conflicts with mail-transport-agent)
[11:13] <lamont> but that's not really a warty issue, since we install both postfix and postfix-tls, which causes exim to go byebye
[11:16] <dieman> im watching the mirroring slowly progress here
[11:16] <dieman> about 10% done
[11:17] <lamont> GAH.  yet another X upload. :-(
[11:18] <thom> oh, fuck. there goes my bandwidth
[11:18] <thom> (and my housemate just got on the beta of evercrack 2, so that's a 2GB download)
[11:19] <lamont> thom: see - fat pipes just make you want _MORE_...
[11:19] <thom> i'm seriously tempted to see if we can upgrade to a megabit link
[11:21] <dieman> heh
[11:21] <dieman> i get 1.5mbps/1mbps at home
[11:21] <dieman> at work we have oodles, tho
[11:21] <dieman> but i think the packetshaper is wacked out today
[11:21] <lamont> or was that disparate?  or desperate? :-)
[11:21] <dieman> i love my 1mbps upload
[11:22] <dieman> i might setup puppycam when the puppies are born
[11:22] <dieman> figure out how to do a theora http stream
[11:22] <lamont> dieman: what kind of puppies?
[11:22] <dieman> golden retriever
[11:23] <lamont> kewl.  papered?
[11:23] <lamont> btw, mitzi got her master groomer cert in June.
[11:24] <dieman> papered, both sides have an akc championship (obedience on one side, conformation on the other), all genetic tests on both sides checked out ok, etc.
[11:25] <dieman> http://www.k9data.com/pedigree.asp?ID=121470
[11:25] <dieman> theres the pedigree
[11:25] <thom> dieman: 1.5/1 is just greedy :-)
[11:25] <dieman> naa
[11:25] <thom> mdz: stopped pogoing? :-)
[11:25] <dieman> i *had* 3mbps/256kbps
[11:25] <dieman> but i got sick of only having 256kbps
[11:25] <mdz> thom: mumble mumble circuit breaker
[11:25] <dieman> so i went up to 1.5/1
[11:25] <dieman> lost 1.5mbps downlink tho :)
[11:25] <thom> yeah, upload is a killer
[11:26] <lamont> dieman: awesome
[11:26] <thom> mdz: heh
[11:27] <lamont> hoary feature goal: Xfonts in their own source package
[11:27] <dieman> lamont: yeah, its working out pretty well
[11:27] <cef> later ppl
[11:27] <dieman> lamont: we might break a bit over even since theres 8(!) puppies.
[11:27] <dieman> lamont: we were hoping for at least 5
[11:28] <mdz> lamont: fabbione has already done it
[11:28] <dieman> http://winterstar.info/ <-- somewhat out of date website
[11:28] <dieman> i need to go clean it up
[11:28] <lamont> mdz: yeah, but both of us said no to uploading it for warty.  I wanna see it in late october.. :-)
[11:28] <lamont> dieman: and I assume you did the right thing and pre-sold based on availability, yes?
[11:29] <dieman> lamont: we've pre-sold some of them, yes
[11:29] <mdz> yep
[11:29] <dieman> lamont: you can't easily sell 'all' the puppies.
[11:29] <lamont> dieman: good
[11:29] <dieman> lamont: plus, this isn't the boonies
[11:29] <dieman> lamont: and we know there is demand via the local club
[11:29] <dieman> they get calls all the time, but don't have anyone to refer to at the moment
[11:29] <lamont> dieman: well, you _can_ presell all of them, but then the sales (and really in any case) have to be based on actually having the puppies born/healthy/etc.  Then you sell order of pick.
[11:30] <dieman> yeah, if we lived out in the middle of nowhere i think we would be a tad more careful.
[11:31] <dieman> we had over half the litter figred out until it was 8 ;)
[11:31] <mdz> anyone tested the unmute script from the mailing list?
[11:31] <mdz> if not, WHY NOT? ;-)
[11:32] <dieman> mdz: im not in front of my ubuntu box? :)
[11:32] <cef> mdz: cos I'm just about to walk out the door and go to a training session on wireless security?
[11:32] <cef> later ppl
[11:33] <lamont> dieman: cool
[11:33] <dieman> lamont: plus, we do something a puppy mill would never do -- genetic health gaurantees.
[11:33] <dieman> lamont: which is pretty much the norm with decent breeders out here
[11:34] <lamont> and you probably interview the prospective parents, I expect
[11:34] <dieman> hips bad? we'll take it back or negoiate some money
[11:34] <dieman> oh yes
[11:34] <dieman> we did a 3 hour spheil with the last one
[11:34] <lamont> I've also seen first-refusal clauses.
[11:34] <cef> ok, outta here
[11:34] <lamont> "if you ever decide to sell the dog, we have the right to buy it back at what you paid for it" type stuff
[11:34] <dieman> yeah, we're not going to be playing the first-refusal game with 'pet' contracts
[11:35] <lamont> very true
[11:35] <dieman> i might do it with show contracts, but we've not been looking for show contracts yet, want to see how this litter turns out
[11:36] <dieman> the people we did stud service at want her back tho, they loved her attitude.
[11:36] <debianist> dieman : aren't all needed nvidia packages in universe?
[11:36] <debianist> or restricted ?
[11:36] <dieman> debianist: oh, they might be
[11:36] <dieman> debianist: i didn't look.
[11:36] <debianist> dieman : (just got your mail)
[11:37] <dieman> i thought ubuntu had an anti-non-free policy on drivers
[11:37] <lamont> debianist: I expect that (1) they belong in restricted, and (2) may need some overrides love before they get there...
[11:37] <debianist> reed the wiki, in order to support multimedia there's a restricted
[11:37] <dieman> ahh
[11:37] <debianist> for pro. drivers
[11:37] <dieman> i need to re-read
[11:37] <dieman> ive not looked in a while
[11:37] <debianist> (non open source)
[11:37] <lamont> dieman: firmware blobs --> main, object blobs --> restricted
[11:37] <dieman> ok
[11:38] <debianist> lamont : thanks.
[11:38] <dieman> they still have to be redistributable, though, right?
[11:38] <dieman> bah
[11:38] <dieman> i'll read the wiki
[11:38] <dieman> mdz replied too
[11:38] <lamont> restrnvidia-glx-dev nvidia-glx nvidia-kernel-common nvidia-kernel-source nvidia-settings are in restricted
[11:39] <debianist> lamont : still, i have manually to compile to kernel moudle? we should have nvidia ready k images
[11:40] <dieman> nope, it sounds lke you should just be able to install the package
[11:40] <dieman> lamont: is keyspan in restricted?
[11:41] <thom> debianist: no, there's linux-restricted modules with the nvidia module in
[11:41] <lamont> what they said
[11:41] <debianist> thom : targetted at the waty shipped kenrels?
[11:41] <debianist> for instance, 2.6.{7|8} ?
[11:42] <debianist> *warty
[11:42] <thom> debianist: it'd be pretty silly otherwise, wouldn't it? :-)
[11:44] <debianist> thom : yeppers. silly question, erase from protocol :)
[11:44] <debianist> if mdz answer works out (installing now) this is COOOL
[11:44] <dieman> hah
[11:44] <dieman> all the sudden my mirror sped up
[11:44] <dieman> wacky
[11:44] <debianist> mine
[11:44] <debianist> mine's too.
[11:44] <dieman> and now it slow down again
[11:44] <debianist> been 50kb/s most of the day
[11:44] <dieman> ok
[11:44] <dieman> so its not just mee
[11:45] <dieman> me, rather
[11:45] <debianist> boy, i'm getting 100kb/s
[11:49] <debianist> it updated grub without approval
[11:49] <debianist> hmm
[11:49] <lamont> fire call.  bbiab
[11:49] <debianist> Searching for GRUB installation directory ... found: /boot/grub .
[11:49] <debianist> Testing for an existing GRUB menu.list file... found: /boot/grub/menu.lst .
[11:49] <debianist> Searching for splash image... none found, skipping...
[11:49] <debianist> Found kernel: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-2-386
[11:49] <debianist> Found kernel: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.7-1-386
[11:49] <debianist> Updating /boot/grub/menu.lst ... done
[11:52] <mdz> approval?
[11:57] <debianist> mdz : back in sec
[11:59] <bdale> lamont: debian-only package (debootstrap) that I'm about to NMU has version 0.2.44 ... is 0.2.44.1 the right version for me to use for a source NMU?