sabdfljdub: well so far12:00
eddit'll be an interesting stress test for plone.12:00
m_tthewslashdot is my fault, only did that because someone suggested it in here :)12:00
makom_tthew: it was inevitable :)12:01
jdubslashdot is good, was bound to happen anyway :)12:01
lamont__right.  off to fatter pipes.  bbiab12:01
eddit'll be a quick way to update the faq 12:01
jvwIt could be me... but from my POV, you're already slashdotted12:02
kokebad slashdot effect :( I keep with 5 seeds in my torrent download12:02
zacki was surprised to see the site using zope... now you pay for it ;)12:03
eddlookin' that way from here too. zope's not the best for this unless frontended with a caching proxy.12:03
jvwyou didn't have a reverse squid on it?12:03
m_tthewslap a squid box in front of it12:03
zackedd: that would have helped12:03
jdubwe even have a squid developer on team ;)12:03
jdubi thought we had done that, too12:04
sivangso, how's warty going? :)12:04
zackhah! nice12:04
diemanbittorrent is ++12:04
diemanmy usage for i386 just jumped12:04
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kokeoh! I'm downloading the ppc one :(12:04
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m_tthewthe torrent seed I am running just leaped back up to saturation outbound12:05
eddouch, i just did a HEAD on ubuntulinux.org... Pragma: no-cache12:05
JayeJust read the LWN post about this distro. . . Awesome!  :)12:05
j^and apache should be set to have more threads running.12:05
JayeThe site is hammered though.  I just sent notice to my LUG, so that probably won't help much :|12:06
koke /. should have his own caching system :)12:06
jvwdmirror.wolffelaar.nl ;)12:06
kokebefore sending websites to hell everydaty12:06
xTinaThat was a fast /.ing ;)12:07
zacki'm glad i was poking around the site about 2h ago, my squid's tummy is full :)12:07
m_tthewkoke: in a perfect world the network would do all content distributing at the edge12:07
JayeI just checked Linuxtoday, the release hasn't appeared there yet. . 12:07
zackso is warty-i386.iso live or just a d-i disc?12:10
sivangzack : ?12:10
sivangmako : has it been so loud here since i left? :)12:11
zacksivang: the wiki mentions a livecd somwhere. wondering if this is it or not.12:11
sivangzack : livecd is based on morphix12:11
jdubzack: delayed a bit from the preview12:11
jdubzack: coming very soon :)12:11
sivangzack : at least the last one I tested12:11
zacki see12:12
zacki've only got one machine at home, i might not get a chance to play12:12
sivangzack : if you have a couple of spare gigs you can install from the hd installer CD12:12
makosivang: it just got loud12:12
makosivang: we just hit /.12:12
alextremenaturally it's based on morphix, i've been slapping em together :)12:13
sivangzack : ohhh12:13
sivangmako : i see :)12:13
alextremehey mako, things getting hectic in ubuntu land? :)12:13
makoalextreme: it's getting hot :)12:13
MdI see the torrents bandwith usage raising :-)12:13
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=== jdub is watching the list subscriptions booming along :)
eddgrmph. no icons on desktop in a fresh install. thought that'd been fixed.12:14
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=== edd realises why
jdubedd: that is intentional. :-)12:15
zackouch, that's not nice PR12:15
eddjdub: no dude, i mean the white paper ones.12:15
jdubedd: ... oh?!12:15
eddjdub: turns out i preserved /home12:15
eddjdub: rather then starting completely over.12:15
=== edd slaps self with kipper
eddstill, worth noting in case other people do that.12:15
seb128jdub: the lists archives don't work ?12:16
jdubseb128: looking into it12:16
zackcome to think of it a lot of debian-gnome's icon sets give me white paper all over the place12:16
diemanthis laptop does S3!12:17
diemanand ftp.cs.umn.edu is serving 40 requests12:18
diemani upped the max to 35012:18
diemansince we were only using like 200mb of memory at like 70 servers12:18
sivangedd : there supposed to be no icons on frsh install12:19
eddsivang: read back to what i said :)12:19
sivangedd : ;)12:20
mxpxpoddoes anyone here use ubuntu on ppc?12:20
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jdubmxpxpod: yeah12:21
mxpxpodjdub: how well does it work?12:21
kokemxpxpod, I'm downloading it :)12:21
seb128jdub: are we going to have list archive soon ? lucas_ want to send a news about the preview with a link to the announce :)12:21
mxpxpodkoke: hehe, I'll have to come back here tomorrow and ask you how it is :)12:22
lamont__88up 21 down.  I guess that's better...12:22
mxpxpodis there a ppc live cd?12:22
NafaiIf it works like regular Debian on PPC, it works great. :)12:22
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=== lamont__ needs to wander for a few
jdubmxpxpod: it's rad.12:23
xTinamxpxpod: I'm already installing ;)12:23
mxpxpodjdub: I'd like to try it out before I just blow away my debian setup... is there a live cd for ppc?12:23
seb128jdub: <andred> Anything Jeff Waught is involved with has to be good. (seen on #gnome-debian)12:23
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whiprushdid you guys need web mirrors?12:23
xTinaI didn't get DHCP to work during install though :(12:24
mxpxpodxTina: really?12:24
seb128that's weird12:24
xTinamxpxpod: "You don't seem to be connected to a network ..."12:24
mxpxpodoh crap... I gotta get home or my wife will kill me12:24
jdubseb128: haha. crack.12:24
m_tthewxTina: you managed to burn the image with DiskUtility after all?12:25
mxpxpodI'll talk to you guys tomorrow!12:25
xTinam_tthew: No, I used cdrecord.12:25
Nafaijdub, edd, seb128, any others who might have been involved with Gnome 2.8, congrats on the release!12:25
seb128jdub: thanks for the archives, that works now :)12:25
seb128Nafai: thanks12:25
jdubseb128: wait a sec12:25
=== edd disclaims any responsibility -- it's the other guys!
jdubgoing to break them again12:26
Nafaiedd: heh. :)12:26
xTinam_tthew: I'll file a radar bug later, let's see what Apple thinks ;)12:26
diemanwere pushing about 55mbps12:26
edd(and yeah, they rock!)12:26
Nafaiedd: I enjoy reading your blog on planet gnome none-the-less12:26
diemanim guessing we're io-bound, older raid hw12:26
diemanwish it was setup as striped too12:26
m_tthewxTina: heh12:26
xTinam_tthew: And I'm planning to re-rip the CD once I'm done installing and test that.12:26
m_tthewxTina: I'm still waiting on the iso, unm mirror has slowed a bit :)12:27
jdubseb128: don't link yet12:27
seb128jdub: the url is going to change ?12:27
diemanm_tthew: heh12:27
jdubhold on12:27
diemanm_tthew: thats me12:27
xTinaBut it's a really odd problems, I've burned hundreds of ISOs using DiskUtility and never had a prob ...12:27
diemanm_tthew: theres 73 people fighting over 55mbps12:27
xTinaBut it's definitely a DiskUtility bug in the first place, even if something should be wrong with the image, it's no reason to go crashing ...12:28
azeemgosh, the /. comments are really bad...12:28
m_tthewazeem: how unexpected12:28
diemani wish i could push afull 100, but the box is only so fast :|12:29
m_tthewdieman: and you bounced my connection once, maybe during the thread increase restart? :)12:29
diemanm_tthew: yeah, sorry12:29
diemannot doing it again :)12:29
m_tthewdieman: :) wget -c is my friend12:29
m_tthewapachectl graceful :)12:29
azeem30% "the website is down" 30% "who needs another distro?" 30% "What is this about, anyway?" 10% "D'oh" 12:29
dilingerugh, ubuntu made slashdot?  that would explain why the page is so damned slow :/12:29
jdubseb128: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2004-September/000000.html12:30
MdI don't see much traffic on the ISO mirror12:30
seb128jdub: thanks12:30
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sivanganyway peopole, better go get some sleep, have some physical life. this has been a wonderful time :)12:32
sivangnight everybody!12:32
xTinaCould someone please paste the URL for the PPC iso image? I'd like to include that in the bug report but can't reach the site at the moment.12:32
KosaiOh, it hit slashdot.  Cool.12:32
sivangmako : night12:33
jblackxtina: the torrent is here: http://ftp3.linux.it/pub/mirrors/warty/warty-power pc.iso.torrent12:33
xTinajblack: I need the URL for the original ISO for the bug report with Apple.12:33
mdzxTina: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/12:33
xTinamdz: Ah, thanks.12:33
mdzdieman: pushing 55mbps from where?12:34
m_tthewunm.edu, iirc12:34
diemanthe ftp server here at umn12:34
diemannot new mexico, minnesota. :)12:34
diemanm_tthew: s/unm/umn/12:34
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m_tthewI should just cut all my fingers off, I'm terrible today12:35
zackwouldn't that make you even worse tomorrow?12:35
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makomjg59: yes, my debian-legal stole my dfsg shirt just arrived :)12:35
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m_tthewzack: good point, but it least I could talk about my golden, younger days.12:36
zackplenty of time for that12:38
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diemanmako: haha12:39
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mjg59mako: Rock12:45
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eddtime to get some sleep. but happy sleep with my new warty install :) thanks everyone.12:46
danielsnight edd12:47
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danielskfish: 'morning12:50
jblackI have a screenshot of Debian+Ubuntu, if you guys get any questions about how well ubuntu works with Debian.12:53
Kosaijblack: Sure, post an URL.12:54
jblack(its an unusual resolution because of the dual-head display stuff I'm doing)12:55
PuumbaI've made the request to have an ubuntu mirror set up at http://mirror.csociety.org/ (Purdue)12:58
kfishdaniels, dmesg doesn't report a synaptics, but X was configured for it -- but there's no module installed for it12:59
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PuumbaI'll look into ftp.cerias.purdue.edu tomorrow, since they're an official Debian mirror.12:59
andredhttp://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fBounties <-- That GNOME BT GUI comment is on the wrong line, right?01:00
azeemmako: btw, did you get my mail about the canonical contact in Munich?01:02
danielskfish: hmm, so that shouldn't be doing any harm01:02
danielskfish: maybe it does all that in the hardware then, and you explicitly have to turn it off01:02
kfishdaniels, any idea how?01:03
kokehmmm, bounties :P01:03
danielsno clue, sorry01:03
kfishok :)01:03
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kokebye :)01:06
mdzandred: fixed01:06
kokecu tomorrow 01:06
andredmdz, thanks01:06
TheUbuyou know01:06
TheUbui dont know if i like the name01:06
mdzit grows on you01:07
makoazeem: yes.. this last week has been a little insane.. hopefully with the release out of the way i can catch up on email01:07
makosomeone with a mic do a recording01:07
mdzandred: you aren't by any chance the same AndreD from FICS?01:07
makoi tried but my mic didn't work01:07
dilingermdz: i hope you guys say it like that at company meetings and stuff01:07
mdzI have a truly shitty mic buried away somewhere01:07
mdzdilinger: oh yes.  there's a hand gesture too01:08
Kosaimdz: I think I saw someone from KGS here earlier.  Those crazy geeks.01:08
Kosai(Kiseido Go Server.)01:08
andredmdz, Unfortunately not; I don't even know what FICS is:-)01:08
TheUbuno it doesnt01:08
azeemmako: sure. I didn't know much more than what I've rean on n-n-y.com though, so the mail is probably highly incoherent...01:08
azeemeh, s/rean/read/01:08
TheUbuit is so close to my name01:08
mdzandred: (chess server)01:08
TheUbuit is really bad01:08
TheUbui'm gonna bring up trademark infringement01:08
danielsmdz: and a dance, even01:09
TheUbui have technology trademarks on ubu ubie and ubix01:09
mdzmako: wasn't there a character named Ubu in that book you were reading?01:10
TheUbuthere is a character ubu01:10
TheUbuking Ubu actually01:10
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TheUbuso whats up?01:14
m_tthewis it OOOOboonto or ooBOONto or ooboonTOO01:15
andredI got to give it to you guys that ubuntu sounds really promising. Like a GNOMEified Debian, and by that I don't mean just the desktop choice, but the Just Works mentality applied to Debian.01:16
TheUbui really can't believe their is an os with such a similar name...01:16
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TheUbuthis is shocking01:16
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mjg59You haven't made Osnews yet01:19
danielskhalek: having our os name start with 'ew' isn't so great ;)01:19
RockMuncherI'm not sure I understand Ubuntu's "raison-d'tre", could someone enlighten me?01:20
KosaiI think it's got something to do with python and shininess.01:20
TheUbui'm gonna have to fork this to kill it01:21
TheUbucall it Ubunut01:21
mdzRockMuncher: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/ has some starting points01:21
mdzandred: sounds like a compliment, thanks :-)01:21
mdzm_tthew: the second one (accent on the middle syllable)01:22
mdzwe need to get a vorbis stream up01:22
RockMunchermdz, that page doesn't give much information... nothing seems to set it apart from userlinux, mepis and co01:23
dieman155 requests currently being processed, 26 idle workers01:23
andredMy name is <someone> and I pronounce Ubuntu as <something>:-)01:23
diemanyeah, that machine is cookine01:23
PuumbaThis is Timon and Puumba, and we pronounce "ubuntu" as...01:23
TheUbuhow many ubu* operating systems can there be01:23
m_tthewI made an ogg, mdz can you tell me if I got it right01:23
TheUbuJUST 1 MINE01:23
m_tthewshit wait I did the wrong syllable01:24
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mdzRockMuncher: that's a good idea; we should outline some of the comparisons and contrasts01:25
mdzm_tthew: that is approximately correct01:25
defendguinhmmm lots of people here already01:25
defendguinim curious as to the type of installer ubuntu uses01:26
jdubdefendguin: it's a slicked-up debian-installer01:26
TheUbudon't people research names before they pick one?01:26
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Nafaijdub: Text based or GTK?01:27
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mjg59RockMuncher: It's got a larger number of people working on it than any other Debian-based distribution01:27
jdubNafai: text01:27
RockMuncherI'm wondering what's the reason for Ubuntu's workforce to build their own distro instead of joining in on an existing project01:27
mjg59There's also the aim of working much more closely with Debian01:28
jdubRockMuncher: we're joining in on the debian project :-)01:28
diemanRockMuncher: changing debian within debian is hard.01:28
mjg59RockMuncher: Nobody outside Debian is going to turn Debian into something with a 6-month release cycle01:28
diemanRockMuncher: read the last three years of debian-devel. :)01:28
mjg59It's unlikely enough that anyone /inside/ Debian is going to turn Debian into something with a 6-month release cycle01:28
RockMuncheryeah, but I'm not talking about debian specifically01:28
RockMunchersome debian based distros are already trying to clean up its act01:29
mjg59So effectively it turns into "Why a new Debian-based distribution rather than working with a current one"01:29
mjg59Mepis, Xandros and Linspire all want to make money01:29
mjg59So they're not good starting points01:29
mjg59Userlinux involves Bruce Perens, which is a pretty good incentive to work separately01:29
Puumbajdub and others are involved - it has to rock01:30
mjg59(Note that this is all just my personal opinion - I'm not involved with Ubuntu)01:30
dieman(ditto, im not with ubuntu or canonical software)01:30
dieman(i just host a mirror server)01:30
AndyFitzin synaptic:\01:30
AndyFitzURI:  http://ftp.no-name-yet.comno-name-yet/01:30
AndyFitzDistribution: warty01:30
AndyFitzSection(S): universe01:30
AndyFitzdoesn't seem to work01:31
mjg59AndyFitz: The URI is wrong01:31
elmo_AndyFitz: you're missing a /01:31
RockMuncherso there isn't yet a (free) group which is working on debian the way you guys are?01:31
elmo_AndyFitz: and use http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu now01:31
phlaegelhm, just finished installing ubuntu, and it looks great so far. one question: shouldn't the smooth gtk2 engine be installed by default, since glider is in gnome-themes?01:31
mjg59RockMuncher: There is no entirely free Debian-based distribution that's intended as a general-purpose system and which doesn't have Bruce Perens, no01:31
AndyFitz:) too easy01:32
azeemmjg59: linex?01:32
RockMuncherlol, mjg59, Bruce Peren : is he that bad? :) (jus askin, I dunno)01:32
jdubRockMuncher: ubuntu is a free software project too, though01:32
azeemthough entirely free debian-based distros tend to either merge with Debian or be forgotten I guess01:33
mjg59RockMuncher: I got on with him fine in person, and he may well be better than he was back in the Debian days, but he has a legendarily bad reputation for ease of cooperation01:33
RockMuncherjdub, yes I know. that's really cool01:33
xTinaHm. No DNS for me :(01:34
defendguinjdub, how slicked up?01:36
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RockMuncherAnd how about Canonical Ltd? What's its mission statement/target group/source of revenue?01:37
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m_tthewdefendguin: from my installation experiences, just enough and not too much01:37
Gmancongrats on the release all01:37
defendguinits not graphical im guessing01:38
Gmanlooks very sexy01:38
jdubdefendguin: simplified a fair bit, lots of performance improvments, etc. :-)01:38
defendguindecent hardware detection?01:38
jdubdefendguin: no, the graphical installer will be coming in our second release01:38
jduboh man01:38
jdubhardware detection is rad01:38
jdubespecially autoconfiguration of X01:38
defendguinthats all i needed to hear01:39
danielsi hear the x detection is sensational01:39
AndyFitzubuntu is the most shiny debian distro  hehe  ;)01:39
defendguinAndyFitz, did you get them to include your icon theme?01:39
AndyFitzin the words of a poorly translated mario sunshine  " shine-get upgrade * "01:39
arachnewhat aboutknoppix ?01:39
mdzRockMuncher: www.canonical.com should answer the first question01:39
jdubdefendguin: AndyFitz's theme is in progress (check out the Human icon theme after you install)01:40
AndyFitzdefendguin: im doing a new one for ubuntu01:40
defendguinwhere does nice01:40
defendguinwhat about nvidia driver for x?01:40
defendguinthey have it in apt?01:41
mdzdefendguin: apt-gettable01:41
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defendguingood deal01:41
mdzboth kernel and userland01:41
PuumbaIs it possible that things like java and acroread could be put in either restricted or universe?01:41
mdzapt-cache search nvidia should get you what you need01:41
RockMunchermdz, so revenue should stem from services? there's some tough competition going on there01:41
PuumbaMaybe spice?01:41
mdzPuumba: java is a complicated issue due to its licensing01:41
defendguinAndyFitz, got any SS of the new theme?01:41
mdzit's more than just not open source01:42
AndyFitzi'll upload one now01:42
=== Md is happy enough that firmwares are there... :-)
mdzRockMuncher: we do intend to provide services, yes01:42
Puumbamdz: Okay.  It seems that ubuntu is a little less zealous than Debian (e.g. inclusion of binary drivers)01:42
mdzMd: I inferred this from your comments on mailing lists :-)01:43
PuumbaSo I was curious about the policy about things such as java, etc.01:43
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mdzPuumba: acroread may be a possibility; at one point it was distributed in Debian non-free01:43
whiprushtime for ubuntu-legal.01:43
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mdzI am not sure whether it was removed for licensing reasons or something else01:44
Kosaiwhiprush: That sounds like a great idea.  (Because it gives sane people somewhere to unsubscribe from.)01:44
PuumbaYes, I still get it from marillat.01:44
Mdmdz: because the stupid license forbids fixing some security bugs01:44
danielsdebian-legal has only shown that people in groups can be stupid, not that the whole idea of having people with legal smarts together on one list is bad01:44
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MdI don't think that acroread is important, anyway...01:44
mdzMd: oh, yes, I remember now01:44
PuumbaI agree, there are good alternatives to acroread01:45
mdzMd: no, the free alternatives are getting quite good01:45
MdBTW, did you already talk about patented or possibly patented stuff like LAME and some video codecs?01:45
PuumbaThat's the other issue I was curious about - DVD playback.01:45
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Mdthere is no free PDF plugin for mozilla, but OTOH the acrobat one sucks so much that I have to disable it or it tends to kill galeon half the times01:46
andred"Menu layout: remove Debian menu? [Done] " -- Amen!01:47
n3x4does ubuntu use .deb's ?01:47
jdubMd: yeah, so hopefully we'll be shipping gpdf by default in Hoary, with mozilla plugin goodness.01:47
jdubn3x4: yes!01:47
n3x4jdub: ok thanks01:48
jdubn3x4: ubuntu is based on debian sid01:48
defendguinubuntu doesnt include x.org 6.8 does it?01:48
Mdjdub: is it in gnome 2.8? I haven't seen it yet01:48
AndyFitzits xfree atm01:48
azeemwill this be true for warty only, or will you resync with sid for the next release again?01:48
AndyFitzthen x.org for next release i think01:48
mdzdefendguin: not for the Warty release, but our development branch will be moving to x.org very very soon01:49
sladendefendguin: no, that will in in the next (April 2005) release01:49
crimsunsanitized XFree86 4_3 branch01:49
jdubMd: gpdf is in gnome 2.8, but isn't in ubuntu's main component - you can install it from universe01:50
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=== tuppa twiddles his thumbs, waiting for the ubuntu cds to arrive...
jdubazeem: in the next few weeks, our development branch will open, and all the debian sid love will flow into it :-)01:50
guestishso, whats the story w/ ubuntu? :)01:50
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azeemjdub: rad01:51
mdzPuumba: re: DVD, xine is available in universe01:51
Puumbajdub: There are two main mirroring organization here at Purdue (csociety.org and cerias).  ftp.cerias.purdue.edu is an official debian mirror.  Would that be the preferred choice if we have to choose only 1?01:51
jdubazeem: it really is six monthly time based releases of sid :-)01:51
guestishdoes it use the debian repositories or its own?01:51
mdzMd: regarding patents, the universe is a big place...:-)01:52
jdubPuumba: hrm, probably a choice for the mirror maintainer01:52
mdzguestish: our own01:52
guestishmdz: how does it work?01:52
Puumbamdz: I'm not up-to-date on the css issues.01:52
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mdzguestish: which part of it?01:53
danielsthe current xfree86 4.3 packages have something like 250,000+ lines of patches applied01:53
guestishwell, how do you get packages, how advanced is the installer? etc01:53
mdzguestish: we have our own infrastructure for building and distributing Ubuntu01:53
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whiprushso this -devel branch, it'll be like sid for ubuntu then. does it have a cool nickname or just -devel?01:54
mdzguestish: you get packages using apt and its frontends, generally01:54
guestishmdz: and the packages dont come from debian?01:54
Puumbajdub: I've contacted both, but they may like to host mutually exclusive archives.  I'll wait and see how they respond.01:54
mdzguestish: much of the source code has come from Debian01:54
mdzwhiprush: Hoary Hedgehog :-)01:55
guestishgot any screenshots?01:55
mdzguestish: hmm, I'm not sure that we do01:55
mdzjdub: screenshots?01:55
=== mauriz wants screenshots :)
defendguinhey are you guys using the gnomeized version of ooo?01:56
=== guestish wants screenshots
guestishmdz: well i suppose linux always looks the same01:56
azeemdefendguin: haggai is around, so I guess yes01:56
jblackI have a screenshot of a hybrid ubuntu/debian system.01:56
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blah09does this come with an installer?01:56
defendguinazeem, sweet01:56
mdzguestish: actually it is quite distinctive at the moment :-)01:56
mdzblah09: yes01:57
guestishmdz: eh? what desktop?01:57
mdzguestish: GNOME 2.801:57
guestishmdz: dcc me over a screenshot :)01:57
mdzI'll put one up somewhere for everyone01:57
whiprushit's like sarge's but doesn't ask as many questions01:57
blah09ah ok =)01:57
daniels(note that Hoary isn't a nickname for our development branch in perpetuity, a la sid; it's the name of our next release)01:57
guestishsarge's asks very few questions01:58
whiprushdaniels: yeah I figured that01:58
andredguestish, It asks some stuff that normal people have no clue about.01:58
guestishwhat does canonical do?01:58
guestishandred: hrm, like what?01:58
mdzguestish: Canonical Ltd. is committed to the development, distribution and promotion of open source software products, and to providing tools and support to the open source community.01:58
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mlhfund ubuntu and gnu-arch mostly i gather01:59
guestishmdz: but hwo does it make money?01:59
guestishmdz: support contracts?01:59
andredguestish, Well, quite a number of the questions. I can't remember them specifically. The grub bootloader thing is perhaps scary for people.01:59
mlhit doesn't yet :-)01:59
guestishandred: oh, i've only used the installer for sparc, and it has very few prompts01:59
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whiprushandred: the MTA question is one.02:00
guestishfriggin ooo, wont open02:00
andredwhiprush, Right, and I'm glad they've decided on just using local delivery by default instead of asking for that.02:00
whiprushalso the sudo thing02:00
guestishmlh: lol, you serious?02:01
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mlhguestish, about what?  they certainly intend to make money -- but since they only decloaked yesterday it 's not surprising if they're not making money yet02:02
guestishmlh: oh02:03
Ritalinim downloading it now02:03
guestishmlh: im just courious as to how they are going to02:03
Ritalinlooks neat02:03
mdzby popular demand: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-screenshots/02:03
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mlhguestish, yeah me too :-).  i wish them luck though. it has a good philosophy behind it02:04
jdubmdz: shit man, we didn't do screenshots!02:04
jdubmdz: d'oh!02:04
Castr0wow it looks jus tlike gnome ;-)02:04
blah09looks like my libranet desktop =D02:04
mdzjdub: yeah, why didn't YOU think of it? :-)02:04
guestishmlh: sure :)02:04
=== guestish wants screenshots :)
mdzif you look closely, you can spot a few key differences :-)02:04
whiprushwhy did no one think of a trash applet before. I can't go back now02:05
daniels(for one, 90% of the screen)02:05
blah09is that wifi thing new?02:05
mlhmdz,jdub you might want to redirects from the .com :-) (currently holding page)02:05
whiprushthat's different icons on the existing wifi applet.02:05
guestishsounds like this is a relatively new project02:05
phlaegelso what's with the obsessively empty desktop?02:05
andredI hope the Trash applet will work for all sorts of delete operations in the future, not just for Nautilus delets. That would be cool.02:05
whiprushandred: I alias my rm to just mv to ~.Trash02:06
blah09probably cleaned up for the shot ;)02:06
phlaegelblah09: nope, the default install is like that02:06
andredwhiprush, I didn't mean like that. I meant stuff like removing bookmarks by dragging them to the Trash applets. Stuff like that.02:06
jdubandred: yeah, that's the intention02:06
whiprushoh oh02:06
blah09thats cool, i like to clutter my desktop on my own02:07
jdubblah09: your desktop is yours! ALL YOURS!02:07
PuumbaAs far as improved laptop support, does that include software suspend?02:07
whiprushany hopes of getting the official firefox logo? </nitpick>02:07
mdzjdub: I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use the gnome screenshot tool to get a snaphsot while of a menu open :-)02:08
andredwhiprush, Third-party distributors can't use it, so I guess not.02:08
phlaegelis there some reasoning behind it being completely empty though? 02:08
Gmanmdz, at the commandline, use --delay=N02:08
mdzphlaegel: ever notice how when you want to get to something on the desktop, there are always windows in the way? ;-)02:08
jdubmdz: you can run it from the command line wth a timeout02:09
phlaegelmdz: good point02:09
mdzPuumba: not by default, no; there are too many laptops which don't wake up if sent into software suspend02:09
phlaegelI suppose it fits better with desktop as homedir as well, which is my preference02:09
j^mdz just use the keyborad shortcut for screenshots02:09
PuumbaPuumba: no problem.  Just curious.02:09
andredOh my, a "Computer" menu. I wonder what that reveals.02:09
PuumbaWell, good night all.02:10
whiprushandred: lots of stuff that was on the desktop before.02:10
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andredwhiprush, Aha02:10
whiprushi'll screenie it02:10
guestishso, where are they?02:11
mdzjdub: what's the name of the program?02:11
mdzguestish: where are who?02:12
guestishmdz: screenies :)02:12
jdubgnome-panel-sc<tab><tab> ?02:12
mdzguestish: I put one up02:12
mdzah, -panel-02:12
jdubah yeah, gnome-panel-screenshot02:13
blah09^^ up there somewhere02:13
guestishmdz: where?02:13
guestishi dont see any links02:13
guestishoh, i see it02:13
guestishwow...its uh,..barren02:13
mdzit's clean and delicious02:14
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guestishlooks like a pretty standard 2.8 desktop to me02:14
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defendguinmmmm nice02:14
andredwhiprush, The "Desktop" entry is the "Show desktop" button?02:15
defendguinubuntu going for lsb certification?02:15
whiprushit opens an empty window to ~/Desktop02:15
guestishmdz: laptop?02:16
andredwhiprush, Hmm, ok. Why? Shouldn't meople learn to just drag stuff to the desktop if they want stuff there?02:16
mdzguestish: those shots are from my laptop, yes02:16
whiprushdunno, I'm new to this too.02:16
whiprushalthough I expect some things are still rough.02:17
guestishmdz: nice02:17
whiprushfor a while I had my home directory on the panel and thought that was like that on purpose.02:17
mdzthose of you with centrino laptops will appreciate driver support for the intel onboard wireless out of the box02:17
defendguinwow nice02:17
maurizsounds great02:17
whiprushmine speedsteps too, the applet worked out of the box, that was cool02:17
maurizwhat about atmel?02:18
mdzmauriz: likewise02:18
mdzhmm, actually it's apt-gettable02:18
guestish i didnt know the linux kernel had support for wireless02:18
mdzatheros/madwifi is there by default02:18
mdzatmel the driver is there by default, but you need to apt-get the firmware02:18
blah09mdz: great news about the centrino =)02:19
mdzmauriz: hmm, I was right the first time. the firmware is there by default; atmel should work out of the box02:19
mdzas well as intel/centrino and atheros/madwifi02:19
andredReally, having "Desktop" on the menu seams weird. I don't think people should have to think about the "Desktop" as a folder.02:20
maurizgreat :D02:20
danielsfor those of you who need ndiswrapper, packages are expected to be available today02:20
schweebguestish: the linux kernel has had support for wireless for a long time02:20
guestishschweeb: oh02:20
=== guestish shrugs
phlaegelandred: that's one reason I like the desktop being the home dir02:20
guestishnever needed to use it02:20
mdzdaniels: EVIL02:21
sabdflandred: it lets you move stuff to the desktop even if you have apps that obscure it02:21
mdzworkrave hates me, back in 1002:21
jdubwow, everyone's raving about the bittorrent feed :)02:21
danielsmdz: hey man, I like working wireless02:22
andredsabdfl, That's true.02:22
xTinaI just installed Ubuntu on my iBook. It's looks really cool ... but I have the following on my list that does not work: DNS (I get my IP successfully via DHCP), getting an error message on login because of wrong permissions on /dev/pmu and I cannot play sound because "/dev/dsp already in use by another application". Other than that, it's fantastic so far :)02:22
danielsjdub: yeah, fooishbar's been pushing 1.1MB/sec for the last 12 hours (except for the 15min window where it died for no apparent reason -- huzzah)02:22
ircrobdoes it use xorg ?02:22
schweebxTina: check /etc/resolv.conf real quick02:22
xTinaschweeb: empty02:22
crimsunno, sanitized XFree86, ircrob 02:23
schweebxtina: dhclient script must be broke02:23
danielsircrob: currently it uses XFree86 4.3 with a mountain of patches, but the development branch will be brought up-to-date with X.Org's X11R6.8.102:23
xTinaschweeb: I guessed so.02:23
sabdflxTina: does your dhcp server normally set the dns correctly on other OS's?02:23
xTinaschweeb: Rebooting back into Ubuntu right now, I'll investigate further ... I just wanted to see if my OS X install has survived :)02:23
xTinasabdfl: Yes.02:24
schweebxTina: heh02:24
m_tthewxTina: does warty share a drive with OSX on that machine? (if so, how did that go?)02:24
schweebxTina: look for lines with "nameserver" in /etc/dhclient-script02:24
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schweebif you know enough about shell scripting to troubleshoot it, that is02:25
xTinaschweeb: I do.02:25
Gmandaniels, what happened with that release? is it out or not?02:25
schweebxTina: actually, mine's working, if you put yours up somewhere, I can do a diff real quick (I doubt the script is different between platforms)02:25
defendguinubantu have a symbol yet?02:26
defendguinthat little circle deal?02:26
xTinam_tthew: I originally had 2 installations of OS X on that drive, one partition for each. Deleted one of them during the manual partition step and created a root filesystem (ext3), a swap partition and a new world boot loader partition on the freed space. That was all.02:26
xTinaI'm really fascinated :)02:26
m_tthewxTina: thanks02:26
m_tthewxTina: yeah, nice, isn't it?02:27
xTinaYepp. Very nice.02:27
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danielsGman: someone over at X.Org had a head explosion, I think02:27
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danielsGman: it's up right now02:29
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Gmandaniels, heh02:29
whiprushis this pmount the prefered way or fstab-sync, wrt hal?02:29
defendguinhmmm i might have to install this along side my fedora core 2 install02:30
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xTinaschweeb: what's the md5sum on your script?02:33
schweeb754f7b5c3bba1bf519b50b52e110c63e  /etc/dhclient-script02:33
xTinaok, I'll copy mine somewhere02:33
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schweebI'll do a diff and post it... any special options you want on the diff?  I don't do diffs often, so I forget the options, heh02:35
TheUbuchange the name02:35
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goseis the install the same as debian's or anyone have screenshots of it?02:36
TheUbuyeah take a few u-out02:36
xTinagose: The same, it's just less chatty ;)02:37
jduboh sorry02:37
jdubinstaller ;)02:37
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defendguinnot one icon on the desktop?02:38
taboi'm currently downloading ubuntu, where can i see the list of packages?02:38
taboor a repository02:39
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tabooh, nevermind, in the wiki02:39
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jdubdefendguin: none! :)02:40
goseis floppy net install supported?  it doesn't look like it02:40
robertjWhy is floppy net install a big deal?02:41
whiprushis usplash the bootsplash.org stuff or something different?02:41
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:jdub] : Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ | Bugs: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ | Interview: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8286
jdubwhiprush: different, and really cool ;)02:41
jdubwhiprush: totally out of the kernel, not horribly hackish02:41
=== whiprush is intrigued by the dbus connection
whiprushis there a url? I can't find jack on google about it02:41
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robertjheya jdub, do you know what the big differences are between userlinux and ubuntu?02:42
jdubrobertj: in terms of direction or what we include?02:42
robertjboth I guess02:42
jdubwell, we are doing six month time-based releases from sid02:42
schweebxTina: bbl... put mine up instead of diffing it.... http://schweeb.org/~chris/dhclient-script02:42
jdubthat's just part of the deal02:42
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jdubin terms of what we include in the current releases, userlinux is based on sarge02:43
robertjsid or testing?02:43
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jdububuntu is based on sid + gnome 2.8 and stuff02:43
xTinaschweeb: Now that's a very different script ;)02:43
jdubrobertj: sid!02:43
xTinaInteresting ...02:43
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npxCan I install ubuntu using debootstrap?02:43
whiprushI tried UL, the installer is almost identical to sarge's, except you can do "home pc, server, something" in the beginning02:43
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robertjuserlinux still asks way to many questions02:44
robertjI couldn't believe there was a MTA config prompt still there02:45
whiprushyes, that's the worse one02:45
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whiprushthe HP-specific choice always makes me chuckle.02:45
peacemaker885installing warty, noticed that its downloading and installing everything (X11 and all)..did I miss something or is this by design.  I just wanted a 'base install'02:46
robertjI need to install warty. Hrmmm02:46
jdubpeacemaker885: if you just want to do a base/custom install (not the whole desktop), type 'custom' in at the install boot prompt02:46
peacemaker885jdub: thanks!02:47
=== peacemaker885 pounding head
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schweebxTina: that's likely from Sid02:47
xTinaAlright, with the new script, everything works fine.02:47
schweebrobertj: doesn't userlinux just install pkgs right from debian sources? it used to just be a virtual package02:48
robertjnot sure02:48
robertjI've been playing with fedora lately and using OS X02:48
schweebwhich would mean it will always give the MTA choice02:48
robertjusing OS X is a great experience, just because its a different approach02:49
schweebnot a big fan myself02:49
whiprushnor me02:49
robertjIt's wonderful. Directory services are great on OS X02:50
whiprushalthough ... ubuntu/ppc on a 15" powerbook might be nice.02:50
schweebwhiprush: or in proper engrish, "nor I" :P02:50
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=== schweeb notes he uses OpenLDAP just fine on debian :P
schweebmore than enough directory services for me02:50
robertjschweeb: well its real easy to set up your box to auth off of two openldap servers, an ad tree, and local02:51
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robertjalso you can configure preferences for your client machines via openldap extensions02:51
robertjthe big downside is rolling adduser scripts for OS X server is no trivial task02:52
schweebeasily implemented on linux02:52
maurizby the way, what would be minimum hardware requirement?02:52
robertjschweeb: but already implemented on OS X02:52
whiprushctrl +/- for font zoom broken in epiphany for anyone else?02:53
sladenmauriz: Ubuntu runs sweetest on nice recent laptops.  There isn't really a minimum requirement, but it's not going to be fun if you choose an old machine!02:53
sladenmauriz: Stick it on a machine that you'd use to test a new version of Window, or Doom3 on---you'll have the most fun with Ubuntu that way02:54
maurizi don't have such machine02:54
robertji'm not seeing a net install disk on this mirror, am I missing something?02:54
sladenwhiprush: usplash is completely separate and makes people drool---sadly it's not in Warty so you'll have to hang on for another six months02:55
whiprushsladen: yeah I just can't find any info on it anywhere.02:55
whiprushBut I'll take your word for it02:55
sladenwhiprush: if you search around the web for "Mad Phat Splash", you'll find a couple of people who've blogged about it02:55
daniels"mad phat startup"02:55
schweebeven better would be uber fast init so you don't have to sit and look at a bootsplash for long :p02:56
sladenschweeb: you ain't seen nothing yet ;-)02:56
whiprushoh I see, along with Totally Rad Laptop Support.02:56
danielswhiprush: right02:57
whiprushMan, you guys must drink alot. I salute you.02:57
schweebsladen: considering doing an init with dependencies02:57
schweeb20:57 < schweeb> ?02:57
schweeb [20:57]  [schweeb(+i)]  [4:#ubuntu(+ns)]                                          02:57
schweeb[#ubuntu]  02:57
schweebsorry :-/02:57
robertjWhat exactly does Mad Phat startup entail?02:58
jdubrobertj: nice, pretty, useful startup information02:59
jdubrobertj: without ugly kernel patches and so on02:59
robertjso like, a background on the terminal ;)02:59
jdubheh, nah, cooler02:59
jdubthere'll be stuff in our devel repo when we branch02:59
robertjI really like Fedora's except for the fact that you still get dumped to the black screen for a while in between the boot loader and the minaturized X-thingymajigger03:00
robertjit reminds me of watching Windows 3.1 and 95 boot ;)03:00
danielsit's really incredibly difficult to get a splash that early, though03:01
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robertjyeah, I know03:01
robertjBut doable apparently, but I don't know what impact that would have on legacy hardware03:02
Mdhardware is not the problem03:02
Mdit's painful anyway03:02
whiprushoh, no printer here but I have to ask, Xprint for firefox?03:02
robertjIf your bootloader can have a background image, why can't the kernel itself?03:03
m_tthewmaurix: I ran warty fine on an older pII with 256M of RAM03:03
defendguinjdub, im gonna miss my home icon :(  is this a gnome thing or is it a ubuntu thing?03:04
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jdubdefendguin: ubuntu03:05
defendguinwhy did you make that decision?03:05
jdubdefendguin: you can turn the desktop icons back on in gconf-editor (under /apps/nautilus) if you want to03:05
xTinaSo, the i386 install asks for an "installation type"? Or did I get that wrong?03:05
jdubdefendguin: you have full access in the computer menu03:05
jdubdefendguin: in normal operation, you can't get to your desktop behind your current work ;)03:06
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defendguinyeah i suppose so03:06
robertjjdub: another thing I have learned as an OS X admin is that anyone who saves anything to the desktop without prompting should be shot03:06
schweebyea, I use fluxbox, and I don't even notice not having desktop icons03:06
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joh_hmm, what is the default root password?03:07
Hrdwr_BoBthere isn't one03:07
Hrdwr_BoBsudo passwd03:07
schweebthere is no root03:07
robertjjdub: at any given time I have like 30 random .pdfs on my Desktop (sure they could be in ~/tmp or whatever) but they are just pointless clutter03:07
Hrdwr_BoBbut you should just use sudo03:07
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robertjis there really no root account?03:08
joh_there is no root?03:08
defendguinjdub, the computer menu will include things liek remote fiele systems like an ftp or ssh volume?03:08
whiprushyour user account uses sudo to do stuff03:08
Hrdwr_BoBroot is there, however you should not need to use it because you have full sudo access03:08
whiprushso, sudo apt-get update03:08
schweebI think the passwd file still has a user03:08
whiprushor whatever03:08
robertjwell that's quite different from there being no root03:08
jdubdefendguin: in the future, yeah03:08
schweebit's like a daemon user, you'll never need to actually be that user03:08
Hrdwr_BoBthere is no root in that you should never login as root03:08
jdubdefendguin: but see 'disks' and 'network' in the ocmputer menu03:08
joh_I really like this thing :)03:09
jdubschweeb: the root account is disabled, but still exists (it has to)03:09
schweebjdub: right, for file ownership and such03:09
sabdflnight all03:09
schweebthe nameservices stuff03:09
azeemjdub: so how are you using sudo to run the admin stuff?03:09
=== azeem had a conversation with the gksu maintainer about that
azeemjust hacked sudo in front of the commands in the .desktop files?03:10
schweebyea, I'm curious as to how much hacking it took to make the admin tools use sudo03:10
jdubazeem: gksudo03:10
jdubschweeb: not much03:10
schweebah, never even heard of gksudo, heh03:11
whiprushan selinux plans? Or am I looking in the wrong place in the wiki?03:11
azeemjdub: is that an ubuntu thingy, or from elsewhere?03:11
schweebjdub: so pretty much just a change in reference to gksudo from gksu03:12
jdubazeem: it's part of gksu03:12
joh_Anyone successfully used ipw2200? My computer stopped responding when loading the driver03:12
azeemoh, hmm03:12
jdubschweeb: and extra work elsewhere to make it all work properly, yeah03:12
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mdzjoh_: yes, it's working well for me03:13
sladenrobertj: Xandros, for instance use VGA hacks and have the boot-loader directly program the VGA card;  then have their SplashFX patch continue with the same direct VGA hacks03:13
mdzjoh_: the driver is relatively new, though03:13
joh_mdz, strange03:13
sladenrobertj: usplash gets a framebuffer loaded real quick(tm), in initrd, and then everything is cross platform---it's just a framebuffer03:13
joh_It worked for me in debian sarge, is it the latest version? 0.7?03:14
whiprushbed for me, nite folks. Great job guys, I'm loving it so far, can't wait to see where this goes.03:14
makofrom /.: The closest distro to Ubuntu is probably Bruce Perens's UserLinux project. But UserLinux is focused squarely upon business, whilst Ubuntu seems to be more focused on individual users.03:14
mdzjoh_: yes, it's 0.703:14
makoi think that's REALLY funny :)03:14
m_tthewxTina: ping03:14
mdzwhiprush: thanks, good night03:14
makovery true :)03:14
xTinam_tthew: pong?03:14
xTinaDid I miss something? ;)03:14
m_tthewxTina: powerpc image crashes disk utility here, too, soon as I load it.03:15
=== xTina looks in the #, confused ;)
xTinaAh, alright.03:15
uttaDuring install, did you receive a prompt to set up the root password?03:15
xTinautta: No.03:15
m_tthewxTina: yeah, completely tanks as soon as I load the iso03:15
sladenmako: did you read the bit `` This might appear credible to me if I weren't more familiar with linux. Either it's a joke, or it's astroturfing. [..] ''03:15
Hrdwr_BoButta, that's notabug03:16
uttaxTina, thanks. Ok, so where do we setup/change the root password03:16
sladenutta: Ubuntu uses sudo;  type   sudo command line to run as root03:16
makosladen: yeah, i think that's in reference to another now scored down comment though03:16
Hrdwr_BoBeg: sudo apt-get update03:16
makosladen: i remember reading it03:16
Hrdwr_BoBsudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list03:16
xTinaHm. No ppc packages available anywhere?03:17
=== xTina goes sit in the corner to cry
joh_sudo bash ... ahhhh >(03:17
sladenutta: you'll then be prompted for your own password03:17
m_tthewutta: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.5722653677/faq_view03:17
Hrdwr_BoBsudo bash is not necessary though03:17
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sladenjoh_: mmmm.  Well that defeats all the security and accountability of using sudo03:17
lupusBEwhich Xorg version is ubuntu using?03:18
joh_I know, I know. old habbit...03:18
schweebit uses XFree 4.3, afaik03:18
jdublupusBE: 4.3 + patches03:18
sladenjoh_: if you really feel the need, you could do   sudo passwd   and set a root password.03:18
jdublupusBE: X.org coming in our next release :)03:18
uttam_tthew, Thanks03:18
azeemdoes Eugenia like browsing folders, or does ubuntu not use spatial nautilus by default?03:18
robertjsladen: how quick is that real quick?03:18
uttaHrdwr_BoB, Thanks03:18
joh_sladen, thanks, but I think I like it as it is03:18
uttaxTina, Thanks03:19
lupusBEyour waiting for debrix?03:19
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sladenrobertj: can you hang around until April?  ;-)03:19
jdubyou'll see it way before april though03:20
defendguinim guessing indubstrial is the default there?03:20
jdubbecause it'll be in our devel branch soon03:20
robertjbut seriously, is it like a split second or is it a noticible delay03:20
jdubdefendguin: it's based on indubstrial, yes03:20
xTinaSo what repository should I use for the PPC version?03:20
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joh_by default, there is no icons on the desktop_03:26
\2\34\2\234\\23\mobutu linux!!!03:26
\2\34\2\234\\23\ojo olomfobre oagadugu mobutu linux03:26
Hrdwr_BoBin english?03:26
\2\34\2\234\\23\inside joke03:27
xTinaOh, it's working now. Never mind.03:27
schweeba legible nick would be nice03:27
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jmullmani see that nick and think "Hut, hut!"03:27
jmullmanblue 32! blue 32! Hut hut!03:28
\2\34\2\234\\23\how can i bring humanity to others03:29
makoamu says he can't find the pubkey that signed the release file03:29
makois this for elmo?03:29
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jsubl2what do you use to burn iso's03:30
sladenrobertj: did you see my /query ?03:31
jsubl2i need a gui03:31
xTinajsubl2: No, you don't ;)03:32
schweebcdrecord blah.iso03:32
jmullmancdrecord dev=/dev/whateveryourburneris filetoburn.iso03:32
schweebmaybe with a dev= in there03:32
jdubjsubl2: right click on an iso in the file manager03:32
jdubjsubl2: choose 'write to disk'03:32
jmullmanif you can copy a file, you can burn ;)03:32
daniels(to answer a question for someone who isn't here right now, no, we are not waiting for debrix; hoary will get new x debs relatively quickly)03:32
schweebjmullman: man, the cdrecord guy HATES when you do it that way03:32
jsubl2i am still dl'ing03:32
jsubl225 minutes and I will be able to burn warty03:33
jmullmanschweeb: tough nuggies lol03:33
robertjsladen: yah, got it03:33
jdubdaniels: grr. wrong sender address on your list post :)03:33
defendguinwill the installer not let me install a boot loader?03:33
danielsjdub: er, yeah03:33
joh_hmm, how do I get the kernel source package?03:35
jsubl2oooo back to compiling with fakeroot... right03:36
danielsjdub: i blame the lists moving03:39
robertjI need to grab a copy of ubuntu to keep current, is there a net install only iso floating around?03:40
joh_sorry... stupid me...03:40
mdzrobertj: you can download a netboot tarball03:40
mdzdefendguin: the installer installs grub in the MBR by default, unless you have other operating systems installed, in which case it prompts you03:41
robertjmdz: like a base.tar.gz?03:41
defendguinyeah i have another OS and i was just gonna add a grub.conf entry by hand mdz03:42
mdzrobertj: like a kernel, initrd and config stuff for a PXE boot and network install03:42
mdzrobertj: there is only one ISO available, the full-sized one03:42
robertjmdz: is it everything you need to chroot, install a boot-loader, and be done?03:45
mdzrobertj: it gives you the complete installer, same as on the CD03:45
mdzI'll dig up a URL for you03:45
justdaveanyone burned the powerpc image yet?03:46
mdzrobertj: actually there is a mini-ISO in there, now that I look. surprise :-)03:46
mdzjustdave: of course; we tested it before release03:46
mdzrobertj: please let me know if it works; it's unofficial at the moment03:46
justdavethe machine with the burner on it has OS X on it, and Disk Utility crashes when I click the Burn button with it selected.03:46
justdavemd5sum matches03:47
=== Gman is now known as GmanAFK
mdzjustdave: yes, that is a bug in Disk Utility, unfortunately03:47
mdzjustdave: xTina filed a bug with apple, I believe03:47
xTinaYes I did.03:47
xTinajustdave: Install cdrecord via Fink and burn it on the command line.03:47
mdzxTina: is their bug tracking system public?  it would be great to have a URL we could give people so they could follow the issue, since more people will run into this03:48
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xTinamdz: No, it is not. You need to be an ADC member to access it (there's a free online membership though, if anyone is willing to go through the application forms to file the bug).03:49
mdzxTina: is there a bug ID number or anything like that?03:49
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xTinaBut you can only see your own bugs at any given time.03:49
jmullmannot a very useful system is it? ;)03:50
jmullmanlove mac, hate the support03:50
xTinaIf they file additional bugs, they'll likely get closed/duplicated and don't see any further progress.03:50
xTinajmullman: Well, the latter problem is apparently a limitation of the software they're using.03:50
neighborleehi..ic that ubuntu uses gnome/debian...i'm wondering what kernel it uses and what main features it has like automount and say browswer plugins ..?03:50
jmullmanlet's all nail their support, asking that they use bugzilla ;)03:51
xTinaMaking bug reports non-public by default makes sense, if it's also tracking NDA software and corporate customers make use of it to file internal problems.03:51
jmullmanand you can do that with acls03:51
jmullmancorp. accounts get more restrictive access and the public gets to see only public03:52
jmullmanbut this is a digression ;)03:52
xTinamdz: If you have the time, you might want to try to build a slightly modified ISO. As I said before, I never had a problem with it before that. Or put an FAQ somewhere ;)03:52
mdzxTina: yeah, we never ran into this with previous CD builds, it must just be how it happened to be assembled03:53
mdzxTina: if you file a bug in our bugzilla, I'll use that to collect information about the problem, and to notify folks if we find a workaround or if the next CD is known to avoid the issue03:54
xTinaI'll do that.03:54
xTinaThere is none yet, or should I search as a precaution?03:54
mdzI haven't seen one03:54
neighborleewhat branch of debian does ubuntu yes and is ubuntu totall compat with it ?03:55
mdzneighborlee: ubuntu is based on Debian unstable/sid03:55
mdzneighborlee: upgrades from Debian woody are supported03:55
xTinawhat's the url?03:55
mdzxTina: http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/03:55
neighborleemdz: ok...my question was really related to will apt-get work completely or does ubunto do anything 'unique' like mix branches causing possible problems...thx..03:56
mdzneighborlee: our release is based on a snapshot of debian unstable that we've continued to work on with bug fixes and improvements03:57
mdzall of the software from unstable is available from our repository03:57
mdzthough, not all of it is officially supported03:57
mdzfor more information about that03:57
neighborleek thx03:57
egon_spenglerLooks like the /. article has brought them out from all over, eh?03:58
defendguinits too bad the name "ubuntu" isnt a good name03:59
defendguinto me anyway04:00
schweebI kind of like it04:00
schweebit's unique04:00
mdzit resonates very well with open source and our ideas about it04:00
defendguinthe meaning of the name is fine04:00
neighborleedefendguin, I also like it04:01
xTinamdz: Hm. Seems Bugzilla is slow sending out passwords.04:01
neighborleeit has pizazz04:01
justdaveit's on the same pipe with the downloads04:01
defendguini like Zen Linux04:02
justdavethe mail has to wait in line for a space on the pipe :)04:02
jsubl2my fav from /. = I was telling my wife that the real problem with Linux is that there just aren't enough distributions out there. If some of these people, these so-called "open source programmers" would get off their asses and crank out a few more distributions THEN this stuff would really take off.04:02
neighborleeanyway its 'meaning' is what matters so for me they could have called it 'bootoo' and i'd like it LOL04:02
jdubdefendguin: the meaning of ubuntu is just beautiful, it's great :)04:02
defendguinhow is it pronounced?04:03
defendguinU bun two?04:03
defendguinoo bun too?04:03
jdubthink: ooh ooh ooh, ubuntu! :-)04:03
neighborleeooh-boon-too is what I thought as well LOL04:04
defendguini was thinking U bun two04:04
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neighborleeI like that it comes with gnome ;-004:05
neighborleeso dain many only ship kde and it really urks me04:05
helloubuntu looks absolutely awesome04:05
neighborleehello, ;-004:05
neighborleeI wont know for about another hour or so assuming that how long it takes to download/install ;-004:06
defendguinmaybe you should include a phonetic spelling thing on the website right beneath the logo04:06
jdubneighborlee: you pulling from a torrent?04:06
neighborleejdub, yup04:06
mdzdefendguin: we should include an ogg vorbis sample :-)04:06
neighborleejdub, I just now started it..;004:06
mdzhello: thank you :-)04:06
defendguinmdz sure04:06
neighborleehmm decent speed so far..04:06
neighborleeI can't believe so many are here considering its a new distro04:07
helloit's downloading for me at 416k/s 8)04:07
danielsmy torrent is only pushing 635kB/sec right now04:07
danielsdown from 1.5MB/sec earlier this morning04:07
helloI think I'll install it tonight if I get some time04:07
defendguin27.2 k/s04:07
mdzI saw upwards of 5mbit not long ago04:07
egon_spenglerneighborlee Due to the slashdot effect04:07
neighborleeis the install debian like or did you incooporate anacando like progeny did ?04:07
neighborleeegon_spengler, ahhh heh04:07
jdubneighborlee: it uses a simplified and enhanced debian-installer04:08
neighborleeI saw it on distrowatch04:08
neighborleejdub, sweet04:08
mdzneighborlee: it is closer to Debian than anaconda, but greatly streamlined04:08
jdubneighborlee: our second release will have a graphical installer04:08
neighborleejdub, nice on both counts ;-)04:08
xTinaHm. Does anyone have a login screen screenshot I can steal?04:08
neighborleejdub: i always thought text and gui should be offered04:08
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neighborleebut yeah gui is good..if distro turns out to be well done and popular ..we dont need to not attract those that can only deal with a gui ;-))..04:09
neighborleeone hour 33 minutes ;-004:10
neighborleebtw..i was attracted by fact its debian and that 'gnome' is actually here <G>04:10
zenwhenI wish i had known about this when I was sitting on a T3 earlier04:10
neighborleeI dont mind kde but I prefer gnome because its truly free04:10
neighborleezenwhen, heh04:10
zenwhen<--- Dialup04:10
helloI hope I have some CDRs04:11
neighborleehello, ;-004:11
helloyay, 2 left04:12
danielsneighborlee: um, KDE is under the GPL, so is Qt04:12
neighborleedaniels, yes but its not quite as free to use as gnome/gtk is it04:12
danielsgtk is under the lgpl, which means you can develop proprietary apps using it without paying for a licence.04:13
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jdubneighborlee: KDE and GNOME are both Free Software, let's not get into this :-)04:13
=== bdale gathers ubuntu-users is a new list that he's been added to?
neighborleejdub: all i'm saying is I 'prefer' gnome because to do commercial doesn't require paying..its just that simple to me..no biggie!04:14
danielsbdale: it's sounder@04:14
egon_spenglerJust nice to see a new release with GNOME as default vice KDE.04:14
tuppaso can  I still bitch about KDE to you daniels?04:14
neighborleeegon_spengler, exactly04:14
egon_spenglerGNOME is my default in Slack and FreeBSD04:15
sladentuppa: yeah, KDE's a pain isn't it  ;-)04:15
neighborleeegon_spengler, heh04:15
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bdaledaniels: my inbox now has a bunch of messages with:04:16
bdaleList-Id: Ubuntu Help and User Discussions <ubuntu-users.lists.ubuntu.com>04:16
=== bdale assumes he should just add this to his list of lists...
danielsbdale: yeah, it's the new name for the sounder list04:17
bdalegee, thanks.  list renames suck.04:18
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Hrdwr_BoByeah my list filters didn't magically work it out04:18
bdaleupdated in my config04:19
helloburning my CD B)04:19
=== bdale just gets annoyed when list traffic ends up in his last-chance inbox...
mike22just read on /. is this x.org or xf86?04:19
mdzmike22: xfree86 for this release, x.org going into our development branch soon after04:19
neighborleemdz: sweet04:20
mike22had alot of trouble with fc2 most tgz files look for xf86 includes04:21
mike22could not get pov-ray and lots others to compile04:21
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mdzmike22: povray is available in packaged form; you shouldn't need to compile it04:22
neighborleemike22, hmm well I find alot of innovative things in fc..I dont overall trust it04:22
sladenbdale: I think it would have been useful to have a post to the list stating it in advance, and with the new  Sender: / List-Id:  yes04:23
mike22i'm on the list to try the free cd thanks I fell a little giulty though there should be an address to send a contribution on the home page or on the page that gives you the free cd04:24
dieman332 requests currently being processed, 18 idle workers04:28
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diemanonly doing like 40mbps now though04:28
neighborlee107KB/s..not much longer now ;-00heh04:29
diemanwhere you d/ling from?04:29
neighborleealbeit that slow...my dsl is slow but I work for the company so im not complaining <G>04:29
neighborleedieman, BT04:29
diemanim helping the BT04:29
diemanive got 1mbps to throw in from home04:29
neighborleekewl thx!!04:29
neighborleeill leave it going once I boot into ooh-boon-too <G>04:30
diemani've been using it on my wife's machine for a few weeks now04:30
diemanand a vmware session at work for testing04:30
diemaninstalled it on a users laptop today too04:30
neighborleedieman, hmmm and what does your wife think..and has she been die hard M$ fan perse ?04:30
diemanjust about everything worked well enough.04:30
neighborleevery nice04:30
diemannaa, ive had her using linux for a good 3 or 4 years now04:30
neighborleeI just hope getting nvidia working isn't a hastle04:31
diemannv should be easy04:31
neighborleeI tried in 'real' debian and it was rough04:31
neighborleepartly cuz debian doesn't use same init stuff that redhat and others do...a real PITA04:31
diemanthe module is already there, you should just have to install nvidia-glx and choose nvidia in either 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86'  or the XF86Config-4 configuration file04:31
dieman(correct me if im wrong, anyone)04:31
neighborleeif so thats nice and easy04:32
neighborleei'll remember thx04:32
neighborleedieman, so does it do automount and what browser plugins come ready to rock..( not a 'biggie' but its nice )04:33
neighborleemy download is corrupt ..restarting ;04:33
neighborleestuff happens04:34
neighborleerestarted ;-04:34
diemanim not sure on the browser plugins offhand, not in front of my wife's machine04:35
diemanim going to be sitting down and recompiling mariliat's archive against ubuntu tonight perhaps04:35
diemanso we can get mplayer04:35
diemanand acroread04:35
diemanalso need to get j2sdk going.04:35
dieman(i dont work for canonical, im just a user)04:35
neighborleei'm not offhand familiar with mariliat sorry04:35
neighborleedieman, heh04:35
Hrdwr_BoBmarillat is a mong04:35
diemanhes a debian developer04:35
Hrdwr_BoBhe put x11 as the default output in mplayer04:36
diemani'll probally change that in my own archive04:36
diemanxv all the way04:36
Hrdwr_BoBwell, sdl04:36
Hrdwr_BoBit depends on sdl anyway04:36
neighborleedieman, so overall your wife seemed impressed at first glance ?..im looking fwd to gnome2.8 ;-00!!04:36
Hrdwr_BoBsdl automagically figures out xv/x11/yourmother04:37
neighborleegotta love sdl..04:37
diemanneighborlee: shes used to gnome 2.4/2.6, so it wasn't a huge diff04:37
neighborleeHrdwr_BoB, lol04:37
Hrdwr_BoBso wtf not use it04:37
diemanneighborlee: the newer evolution was the biggest thing04:37
neighborleedieman, hmm..i've not seen evo1.5 yet..04:37
Hrdwr_BoBneighborlee, my fiance got sick of me playing with it.. she's not that impressed because she's already using debian unstable04:37
Hrdwr_BoBand evo 1.504:37
neighborleeHrdwr_BoB, sweet ;-))04:38
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neighborleelinux really is making inroads ;-0004:38
diemangod. the mirror is so bogged down out here04:41
diemanFetched 85.1kB in 21s (3972B/s)04:41
diemanow. ow. ow.04:41
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TongMasterThis # got busy suddenly.04:44
TongMasterjdub, one thought I had but never got to discuss last night (insert something about alcohol impaired attention spans) was the menu systems04:44
TongMasterSpecifically the removal of the Debian menus. My question on their absence was leading up to a I feature I use heavely.04:45
TongMaster(even heavily)04:46
TongMasterI understand why the Debian menus have been removed, that's makes sense.04:46
neighborleeyeah I always thought the debian menus were out of place04:46
neighborlee53 minutes!04:47
TongMasterAs a sysadmin though, I make *bloody* heavy use of custom Debian menus.04:47
neighborleethen 10 to burn and whatever to install ..lol04:47
jdubTongMaster: right, so, you can do customish stuff to the gnome menus04:47
jdubTongMaster: but it needs a lot of love04:47
diemanso, if ive got a usb hotplug flash-drive issue, what component should I bug it on?04:48
TongMasterThe Debian .menu stuff is very sweet, so doing it the GNOME was need some TLC?04:48
jdubit needs some upstream fixes to the menu system to work nicely04:51
=== TongMaster nods
diemanDetailed Info: 'From ~5:30 to 7:30 pm tonight we experienced intermittent04:54
dieman+network problems at the border. NTS Engineers determined the Packeteer had04:54
dieman+load-handling problems when a ?slash-dot? targeted EECSI Web Server began04:54
dieman+generating over 80% of the internet traffic leaving the University. The problem+is resolved.  Please contact 1-HELP (612-301-4357) for questions or concerns.'04:54
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jdubdieman: haha :) oops04:55
sladendieman: good point, could do with a handy mariliat-esq archive.  Just the question of how to do it legally04:55
diemani'll probally compile one up locally, but i dont know if i want to figure out the redistribution issues04:57
danielsdieman: ftp.cs.umn.edu?04:57
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diemandaniels: yah04:57
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AndyFitz/me ducks and runs   brb04:57
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danielsdieman: nice :)04:58
logik1dieman: I agree. Nice.04:58
logik1So, what all do you think would improve Unbuntu?05:01
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xTinalogik1: Fixing all the bugs that I'm going to file after bugzilla finally gives me an account and then making sure that kickstart stuff that's apparently planned for the second release will really happen and happen soon :)05:05
logik1xTina: yes, I just install'd ub on 13 machines.05:05
logik1xTina: just imaged the HD.05:06
xTinaImages are evil.05:06
xTinaBadBadBadBadBad ;)05:06
logik1xTina: I want to know how good UB works with MPICH.05:06
xTinalogik1: :)05:06
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logik1xTina: so far, 10 of the 13 nodes have been failing and I am not sure why.05:08
schweebI'd like to make an install report05:09
schweebinstalled from that mini ISO05:09
schweebworked well05:09
schweebstill downloading in base-config though... stupid 384k cable modem05:11
defendguinhmm is it possibly to install to a non mounted hard drive without out rebooting?05:11
defendguinwithout booting from the CD05:12
pr0cwhat optimizations where used building ubunu? (686?)05:12
SmokingFireanyone know how to enbable ntp support?05:12
SmokingFirecan't find the services list05:12
SmokingFireI see I think I need to install it first with Synaptic05:12
SmokingFireI have seen some trick for it but it needs chroot or something05:13
Hrdwr_BoBpr0c, -O9 -funroll-loops -march=superhicas05:13
schweebSmokingFire: "apt-get install ntpdate ntp-simple" usually works for me05:14
diemanxTina: im interested in automated installs too05:14
pr0cHrdwr_BoB, haha05:14
diemanxTina: we should compare notes about needs over email sometime05:14
neighborlee26 min. ;-005:14
schweebI was about to pull that link out05:15
=== schweeb happens to know who writes it
logik1schweeb: are the mirror servers bogged down?05:15
diemanlogik1: yes05:15
diemanlogik1: at least mine is05:15
dieman342 requests currently being processed, 8 idle workers05:16
logik1dieman: give me a sec; I will throw up a mirror05:16
SmokingFirethanks scheew05:16
SmokingFirethanks scheeb05:16
xTinadieman: We currently have a Fedora kickstart setup and I'm fed up with Fedora ;)05:16
diemanlogik1: just set one up and then add the info to the wiki or harass a canonical person in here05:16
schweebSmokingFire: IRC clients with tab completion rock05:16
diemanlogik1: im just a user. :)05:16
xTinadieman: But I love kickstart, so I sort of don't want to go anywhere near FAI if we were to switch to Debian.05:16
schweeblogik1: I'm saturating my cable modem05:16
=== SmokingFire didn't think of that
schweebso they're not ULTRA bogged down05:17
xTinadieman: And Debian poses the dreaded stable/unstable dilemma ;)05:17
schweebno dilemma05:17
diemanxTina: i've got a hacked version of autoinstall i use with woody, im going to start investigating how to make d-i do what i want as soon as i get a chance05:17
schweebjust don't use stable05:17
schweeb<3 testing/unstable05:17
logik1schweeb: Just the x86 iso or all the isos?05:18
schweebI've been running unstable on this laptop for 2 years straight... haven't lost any functionality for more than an hour... nothing I couldn't figure out how to fix05:18
SmokingFireSo when is gnome going to have an apple like volume control?05:18
schweeblogik1: I downloaded the mini ISO, which was 4.5MB05:18
logik1schweeb: I can throwing up the follow iso on a oc-24 backbone.05:19
SmokingFiree.g. click one half volume. second click quater volume and third is off.05:19
schweeband I'm downloading debs off archive. at 45K/s05:19
schweebSmokingFire: ewww05:19
schweebthat'd have to be optional05:19
diemanxTina: the hard part is getting 'network', most likely I'll break down and go back to using dhcp.05:19
diemanxTina: aside from that, then come up with a way to acquire debconf answers given a machine name05:19
Hrdwr_BoBSmokingFire, put your mouse over the speaker and scroll the wheel.05:19
Hrdwr_BoBwhen apple can match that05:19
Hrdwr_BoBthey will have funally got rid of that retarded mouse05:20
diemanxTina: most likely using a stacked debconf db if possible05:20
diemandono if cdebconf does those yet.05:20
diemanmight have to come up with a way that copies them into cdebconf, but then doesn't copy them locally at base-config05:20
schweebdieman: you done a decent bit of hacking w/ debconf then?05:21
diemandono, ive not tought about it much05:21
diemanschweeb: not really, i've used stacked databases though.05:21
diemanit depends on your definition of hacking05:21
schweebI've attempted to use the LDAP backend, but didn't really do anything with it05:21
diemanyeah, never used ldap05:21
diemani've usually stacked using automounted nfs paritions05:22
diemanand the PackageDir driver05:22
SmokingFireHrdwr_BoB, nice tip05:22
diemanName: remotedb05:22
diemanDriver: PackageDir05:22
diemanDirectory: /project/linux/debian3/debconf/config/05:22
diemanReadonly: true05:22
diemanRequired: false05:22
diemanfor instance05:22
schweebthere wasn't much good documentation on the sorts of stuff you could do w/ it05:22
Hrdwr_BoBSmokingFire, cheers, I found it because I tried it, and it seemed to be a sensible thing to do, and it worked :)05:22
logik1Ok, can everyone test some speeds? http://phoenix.lhup.edu/~choudesh/mirror/ubuntu/warty-i386.iso05:24
SmokingFiredefendguin, ok I got this from the linux distro Yoper forums,05:24
Hrdwr_BoBlogik1, SLooooooow05:24
Hrdwr_BoB13k/s now05:24
SmokingFiremake a directory05:24
SmokingFire/mnt/loop and /mnt/yos ...then mount the iso on the loop filesystem, and copy all the files from the /mnt/loop directory to /mnt/yos.05:24
SmokingFireThen do your chroot and make sure you mount proc.05:24
logik1Hrdwr_BoB: what connection you on?05:25
Hrdwr_BoBlogik1, 100mbit05:25
diemanlogik1: its *slow*05:25
logik1schweeb: very.05:26
diemani'll admit though05:26
diemanits faster than ftp.cs.umn.edu right now05:26
diemanbut there isn't 300+ people downloading from t either05:27
SmokingFiredefendguin, here are the instructions step by step: http://www.yoper.com/forum2/index.php?showtopic=1563&st=0&05:27
logik1dieman: 29 people are download ATM.05:27
dieman350 requests currently being processed, 0 idle workers05:27
diemanthe server is full.05:27
dieman350 is where we start crying uncle05:27
diemanand turning people away05:27
diemani should really be doing it at like 150-200 tho05:27
Hrdwr_BoBwe had a single website pull a constant 4mb/s for months05:28
pr0cfrom http://phoenix.lhup.edu/~choudesh/mirror/ubuntu/warty-i386.iso i get < 15kbps from my server at ev1servers05:28
Hrdwr_BoBstupid fucks05:28
logik1remind me never to VI a 100meg log.05:28
=== dilinger [~dilinger@alb-24-194-62-26.nycap.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu
Hrdwr_BoBit was a constant refresh webcam05:28
logik1its cap'd05:28
logik1I am working on it.05:28
danielsHrdwr_BoB: hm, should be quicker from fooishbar05:28
danielsHrdwr_BoB: got somewhere I can scp it to?05:28
Hrdwr_BoBdaniels, hm?05:28
npmccallumdaniels: bye then :)05:29
Hrdwr_BoBbye now!05:30
neighborleedaniels, be safe05:30
diemanin the usa we call that a missed flight, now05:31
=== kenvandine is now known as ken_ZZzzz
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ianwis ubuntu planning on supporting ia64?05:37
jdubianw: not atm05:37
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neighborlee2 minutes! lol05:38
Clintis ubuntu-users a new list or an old one renamed?05:38
jdubClint: new, basically (it's roughly equivalent to sounder)05:38
dieman21:17 < daniels> bdale: yeah, it's the new name for the sounder list05:39
dieman21:18 < bdale> gee, thanks.  list renames suck.05:39
diemanthats what i saw eariler05:39
Clintso I should continue to filter sounder then05:39
jdubClint: it'll phase out, we've split to devel and users05:39
Clintrighty-o then05:40
=== dopey [matth@uruk-hai.bioinformatics.unsw.EDU.AU] has joined #ubuntu
mdzjdub: who did you subscribe to -devel? staff?05:41
diemansomeone should port gcombust to gtk 2.x05:41
diemanjust so this whole k3b is god thing goes away.05:41
jdubmdz: no one05:42
jdubmdz: everyone's on users, devel's opt-in05:43
schweebI hate installing the whole QT framework just for that ONE app you need05:43
schweeb</3 k3b05:43
diemanlike a honest to god ppp dialer like kppp05:43
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Espectrois there a package listing somewhere?05:45
diemanin the wiki there are descriptions of the 'seeds'05:46
diemanthose are the supported packages05:46
diemanas to the 'universe' packages, i would just use apt-cache search05:46
fabbionemorning guys05:47
diemanotherwise, dont think theres an online search yet05:47
diemanhey fabbione 05:47
diemanhappy release day05:47
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fabbionedieman: thanks :-)05:47
s0dak1ngso how is this distro?05:47
wasabiThis channel has more people than #goneme!!!05:47
Espectroall right05:47
Espectrowhy did you guys wait for the next beta to switch to x.org05:47
wasabiEspectro, i'd imagine because debian is waiting for it to be autoconf'd.05:48
=== wasabi doesn't know
schweebbecause Xorg full release was... yesterday?05:48
diemanfabbione should know, my guess is that cross-platform-stuff aint working yet, as usual.05:48
diemanand that forking from the XSF builds would be a huge undertaking05:48
schweeband it's probably fairly difficult to wrangle Xorg into debian05:49
diemanbecause of the amount of insane work branden also does05:49
schweebthey wanna do it correctly05:49
schweeband then submit their findings to debian main05:49
Espectrowhat do you mean full release? 6.7 has been available for half a year, and 6.8 for just a little, and a lot longer than gnome 2.805:49
jdubEspectro: we were hoping to include X.org, but this is our first release, and there was a lot of other work to do :-)05:49
schweebfrom what I understand05:49
schweebgnome 2.8 was already on its way into Debian Experimental (or was that ubuntu's doing?)05:49
jdubEspectro: most of the benefits of X.org will arrive on the same timeline as our next release, so it was not a huge loss05:50
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xTinaOff to bed ... n8 everyone05:51
m_tthewxTina: night05:51
diemanxTina: nght05:51
diemandilinger: yo05:51
m_tthewxTina: hope you mentioned 'ubuntu' in your bug report w/ apple :)05:52
=== dilinger waves
Espectrois java going to be included, like slackware does?05:52
makoEspectro: non-free java?05:52
Espectroevil, full featured, sun's java05:52
wasabiEspectro, that's not legal.05:52
Espectrohow does slackware do it?05:52
wasabiEspectro, accroding to the license you click I Agree to when you download Java from sun's site.05:52
wasabiI have no idea.05:53
wasabiAsk them.05:53
makounfortunately, we've got these anonying licensing guideilnes :)05:53
schweebprobably a download script05:53
schweebyou agree to the license, it downloads and installs for you05:53
diemanwasabi: actually, its ok to redistribute with the clickthrough license, i've seen debs that someone made up that sun was ok with05:53
schweeblike flashplugin-nonfree05:53
Espectrohmm, they even have netscape05:53
dopeynice work guys.. looks like ubuntu/canonical is starting to really take off.05:53
diemanwasabi: so what i usually do is download them and strip the license out for local use.05:53
jdubEspectro: it will probably be easily installable at some stage, but not just yet :)05:54
wasabidieman, we've got java-package in debian expecting to make that easier.05:54
diemans/license/clickthrough stuff/g05:54
makoeven if it meant a special deal, we want to maintain a distro that others can fork.. in others case, that may mean adding something like java. but we're not going to do anything that blocks further derivative works ourselves05:54
wasabiThe java policy in debian isn't exactly "good" though.05:54
Espectroi think you guys need a DeveloperSeed or something05:54
makoEspectro: sounds like a reasonable project05:54
fabbioneguys there is no need to guess anything for Xorg/Xfree86 ubuntu/debian05:55
jdubEspectro: most of our developer tools are in the SupportedSeed05:55
Espectroto list packages for development, i don't seem to find databases05:55
fabbionethere was not enough time to switch the tree for warty05:55
jdubEspectro: we need to keep the number of seeds down for simplicity ;)05:55
wasabiHow will you deal with closed source drivers?05:55
wasabiSuch as ATI and Nvidia.05:55
jdubEspectro: they're in SupportedSeed05:55
Espectrooh, ok05:55
fabbioneit will happen for hoary in full cooperation with debian05:55
schweebwasabi: NVIDIA allows distribution now05:56
schweebdunno bout ATI05:56
wasabiSo you will be including it with the distro, even though it isn't open source.05:56
wasabiie a marked divergence from debian05:56
schweebthere's a restricted branch05:56
schweebwith non-free stuff05:56
Espectroi appreciate debian's tools, but i think they have outdated stuff, partly because they have the same packages for tens of architectures05:57
schweebwasabi: you can get nvidia drivers in debian too05:57
Espectroi have always wanted a debian-x86 fork05:57
schweebthey're somewhere in non-free I believe05:57
Espectrothat has recent but stable packages05:57
wasabihuh maybe they are05:57
schweebI always download the latest NVIDIAs anywawys05:57
wasabithey used to grab from nvidia's site at one point05:57
diemanheh zdnet au covered ubuntu05:58
schweeboh, they most certainly 100% are in one of the main debian branches05:58
wasabiokay, so maybe I was wrong.05:58
schweebI know tons of people that install nvidia from apt05:58
wasabiI wonder then if sun's java can be included in non-free.05:58
schweebbut probably in non-free05:58
Espectronvidia is hard to install from debian05:58
wasabinot really.05:59
Espectroi always get confused from the multiple packages names05:59
schweebit isn't difficult at all05:59
schweebif I wasn't installing at the moment, I'd tell you exactly how to do it05:59
schweebit's not that many steps05:59
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diemanhttp://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39159436,00.htm <-- oh look, its more jeff!05:59
Espectroi dont have debian anymore but i remember that the official instructions included getting inside a dir manually to compile and make a .deb package or something05:59
diemanhe had a busy week05:59
mdzin ubuntu, you need to install only one package for nvidia05:59
mdzand then reconfigure X to use the driver06:00
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diemanyou guys have the problem that dri gets busted if you have nvidia-glx installed and not using nvidia?06:00
Espectroin gentoo i just emerge one thing, and in other distros i install the nvidia-kernel and nvidia-glx package, that's it06:00
jaynice and solid release on ubuntu06:00
jayexcept for wireless networking06:00
schweebEspectro: ....06:00
schweebdebian has nvidia-module and nvidia-glx, or something similar06:01
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schweebdo you have a debian box?06:01
Espectronot anymore06:01
schweebvanilla debian that is06:01
sanxiynschweeb: I do. I am on it now :-)06:01
Dr_WillisHello all06:01
Espectroi COULD install nvidia's, but it was harder than other distros06:01
Espectroi am glad this distro has done something about it06:02
mdzjay: what went wrong?06:02
sanxiynSince I don't have nVidia card, I don't care...06:02
Espectroati fan, huh06:02
jaymdz: network-admin just locked on me would not work on dhcp or manually06:02
sanxiynIntell onboard graphic is the 1st graphics card in the market in terms of share, I think.06:02
jayhad to add the config manually06:02
=== schweeb shudders
jaygonna be a bi*t*h to do this each time i boot06:03
sanxiynIt's the fact of life.06:03
mdzjay: #1069?06:03
Dr_WillisANyone tried this Ubunto on AMD64 based machines yet? - Been trying to test out all the 64bit disrtos on my laptop.06:03
jayalso why no icons on my desktop06:03
mdzDr_Willis: yes06:03
jaymdz: ???06:03
mdzjay: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=106906:03
mdzjay: same bug?06:03
jdubDr_Willis: there have been quite a few successful installs so far :)06:03
Dr_Willismdz,  of course most of my issues with amd64 are lated to my Emachine laptop 681106:03
Dr_Willisheh - checking the wiki and forums for any success stories in that ares06:04
jaymdz: yes06:04
=== brad[] [~brad@] has left #ubuntu ["Konversation]
mdzDr_Willis: I'm not sure if it has been tried on an amd64 laptop; it works quite well on desktops06:04
jaywhy no icons on desktop06:04
Dr_Willismdz,  yea. Ive had decent luck with Gentoo and its Emachine kernel.06:04
Dr_Willisbut had other issues with gentoo :P06:04
mdzjdub: care to update the FAQ on that one?06:05
Dr_WillisSUSE 9.1's amd64 support is lacking in ways also.06:05
Espectroare you guys promoting the "one app for each role" motto, or will you be prostituting everything?06:05
mdzDr_Willis: what's different about the Emachine kernel?06:05
Dr_Willismdz,  not sure really - I think its some patches mainly to fix the buggy bios06:05
wasabiUnder the license to distrbute Sun's JVM:06:05
wasabi(vi) you agree to defen d and indemnify Sun06:05
wasabiand its licensors from and against any damages, costs,06:05
wasabiliabilities, settlement amounts and/or expenses (including06:05
wasabiattorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any claim,06:05
wasabilawsuit or action by any third party that arises or results06:05
wasabifrom the use or distribution of any and all Programs and/or06:05
wasabiI'd say that pretty much terminates that idea.06:05
jdubmdz: icons? was just looking to see if someone wrote one ;)06:06
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mdzjdub: yes :-)06:06
mdzjdub: something like "you love it! you know you do!"06:06
Dr_Willisheh - still downloading the iso.. then i gotta install it.06:06
=== xxor [~xxor@c-24-11-225-178.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu
xxorsup all06:06
jdubjay: hold on, going to write a faq entry06:06
xxorhow do I install packages06:06
jdubjay: basically, it's all available in the computer menu06:06
Dr_Willisthis is now the 2nd dsrto i need to test out. downloaded Yoper yesterday06:06
Espectrothat says if you cost money to sun from distribute their software they will bill you, not relevant here06:06
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i got emachin 680506:06
jdubjay: and whenever you're working on stuff, you can't see the desktop anyway :)06:07
s0dak1ngdr_willis:how was yoper?06:07
=== Amroc [Amroc@c-67-162-148-18.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu
jayjdub: very true06:07
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  Not had a chance to install it yet. :P06:07
mdzxxor: if you like the command line, try 'aptitude search <regex>' and 'aptitude install <package>'06:07
Amrocgood job on the slashdot guys06:07
sanxiynIs AMD64 port of Ubuntu based on debian-amd64?06:07
s0dak1ngdr_willis:there is also userlinux06:07
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  i just noticed that THIS one had amd64 iso :P06:07
s0dak1ngdr_willis:yah me too..i will download it soon06:07
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  yea - not seen if userlinux has amd64 support. i dident think it did06:07
mdzxxor: if you prefer a graphical interface, you may want to try Computer->System Configuration->Synaptic06:07
=== wasabi not going to use amd64 until /lib is laid out right iho
cleeew. synaptic sucks.06:07
s0dak1ngdr_willis:there is also debian amd6406:07
wasabiclee, heretic. Synaptic is rad.06:08
s0dak1ngdr_willis:fedora 206:08
cleewasabi: um, no.06:08
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  thats recently new eh?06:08
=== sanxiyn advocates feta, but it's just me :(
cleewasabi: you lose.06:08
jdubclee: we'll have some interesting other stuff for Hoary06:08
mdzsanxiyn: no, it is based on unstable06:08
Dr_WillisSO far ive tried SUSE 9.1, and Gentoo.06:08
wasabiclee, I know for a fact I never lose.06:08
cleejdub: Good.06:08
cleejdub: Because seriously, synaptic is weak.06:08
Amroci have a question: lamont said that you 'didnt' release the preview today...because of problems, is this true or is thre new stuff out?06:08
s0dak1ngdr_willis:yeah i am also looking for the best amd64 linux distro06:08
sanxiynmdz: Eh, but there's no AMD64 architecture in Sid...?06:08
s0dak1ngdr_willis:do u have MSN messenger and such? we can keep in touch06:09
mdzAmroc: he said what?  preview released today on schedule, according to plan06:09
xxorwhere has this dist been hiding at06:09
jdubclee: it's okay for a certain class of user. it doesn't deserve slanging, though.06:09
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  so far Gentoo has been #1 - But the problem ith gentoo was that most every package was 'masked' on the amd64 part.  06:09
lamontAmroc: I said we didn't release a LIVECD today06:09
mdzsanxiyn: right, we based it on the source code in unstable and made fixes for amd64 as needed06:09
cleejdub: it's definitely not usable for the most-commonly-used functions imho06:09
=== prisen [prisen@adsl-68-90-159-52.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu
jdubxxor: you don't want to enable your root account either, btw. leave it as it is for a while :)06:09
=== Amroc never listens...
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  i rarely ise the im clents. I'm on here most every day :P06:09
jdubclee: for the majority of users, no06:09
Amrocway to piss off glen though lamont 06:09
=== lamont makes a note to partner with Amroc next week, instead of Jessica.
cleejdub: What is really required is something that does the bare minimum of 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade'06:09
cleejdub: but in a pretty GUI with summaries and whatnot06:09
wasabiclee, synaptic plans to add a wizard for that06:09
jdubclee: we have some stuff planned for hoary06:10
wasabii was talking with one of the maintainers at one point06:10
lamontAmroc: I really did feel bad about that though...  OTOH, he was much more relieved that way...06:10
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i guess i will let u be the g.pig to see how this distro is on our laptop lol06:10
xxorjdub: the machine I installed on is non-routable and locked down by router access list06:10
schweebmeh, synaptic is weak06:10
s0dak1ngdr_willis:should i flash my bios to 6809 or 6811?06:10
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  i'd heard the 6811 stff fixes a lot. But its still a risk.06:10
sanxiynmdz: Was there some problem with http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/ ? (95% complete in their own words.)06:10
Espectrowhere are the obligatory screenshots, that will kill your server?06:11
xxorjdub: can I add normal debian sources ? so I can install unstable packages06:11
sanxiynmdz: Or was it easy to just start from the scratch?06:11
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  do you have an issue where an External mouse (usb) isent seen on boot up? under windows OR linux? untill you unplug/plug it back in?06:11
jdubxxor: no, just uncomment the 'universe' lines and use those - most of debian is available, albeit unsupported06:11
s0dak1ngdr_willis: sometimes06:11
xxorjdub: who writes this dist06:12
mdzsanxiyn: most of what the debian-amd64 project provided was build infrastructure, package repository, etc.06:12
mdzsanxiyn: we have our own infrastructure for that06:12
sanxiynAh. Thank you for clarification.06:12
jdubxxor: it's based on debian, the first release was wholly developed by employees of canonical06:12
wasabiI'd like to see the multi-arch spec implemented.06:12
wasabiIn fact I'd give money to see it implemented. ;)06:12
s0dak1ngdr_willis:actually ..that happens only when after inside windows i unplug it ...06:12
xxorjdub: never heard of that corporation06:12
mdzwasabi: it's something we are investigating06:12
xxorjdub: is it non-profit ?06:13
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  friend at work has a 6805, i had a 680906:13
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i haven't had that problem for a month after i don't move my laptop anymore06:13
wasabimdz, /lib/i386-linux/, /lib/amd85-linux/06:13
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i had that problem when i was moving my laptop and unplugging the usb mouse on and off06:13
Dr_Willisie had issues with it. But my 09 never had the issue.. i got an 6811 and  it has the problem all the time 06:13
s0dak1ngdr_willis:but when idont move it i dont got issues anymore06:13
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  this is sitting there from a cold boot.06:13
s0dak1ngdr_willis:oh..then i dont have that problem06:13
s0dak1ngdr_willis:try a diff usb port06:13
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  what mouse port ya use? 2 on side? or back?06:13
jdubxxor: canonical isn't, no06:14
s0dak1ngdr_willis: try install the NEWEST SYNAPTIC mouse driver06:14
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  Hmm.. good idea there.06:14
xxorjdub: so the 'gold' version will cost ?06:14
s0dak1ngdr_willis: i use the 1 closer to the tab key on the left side06:14
sanxiynxxor: I guess "no".06:14
jdubxxor: no06:14
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  Hmm. thats the same i am useing.. fruend says his works on the back left one Only...06:15
jdubxxor: see ubuntulinux.org and canonical.com06:15
Espectrowhy make your x86 packages i386?06:15
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  somthing is real flakey here. :P06:15
s0dak1ngdr_willis:over all i love the laptop..playing the newest games on it with no problem06:15
=== Neg [~Negman@h-66-167-66-185.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #ubuntu
Espectroi dont think anyone on a 386 is gonna use this...06:15
s0dak1ngdr_willis:tribes:vengenace, doom 3, and such06:15
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  yep. :P06:15
Dr_Willisis tribes Vengance out?06:15
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i upgraded my ram to 3200 and hd to 720006:15
Dr_WillisI got the demo.06:15
s0dak1ngdr_willis:the open beta is out06:15
sanxiynEspectro: I guess it uses i386 instructions with i686 scheduling.06:16
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  cool. but the full is due out like nest month eh?06:16
sanxiynEspectro: That's nearly as fast as i686 compiled packages.06:16
Dr_Willishmm should i get the beta.. :P lol06:16
xxorjdub: incorporated in isle of man , that doesnt look too positive .. corporate tax evasion shelter =]  heh06:16
sanxiynHm, am I correct?06:16
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  ya got to be a member?06:16
s0dak1ngdr_willis:just have to register06:16
s0dak1ngdr_willis:no need to pay06:16
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  cool.  Not like tht Lame WoW beta06:17
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i downloaded that but didn't even try it haha06:17
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  lol. :P i hear its very good.06:18
xxorjdub: just a joke .. everything looks awsome , gnome even has extensions for firebird to open links , very nice06:18
Dr_Willisi'd liek to try it - but the beta testing is closed i hear.06:18
s0dak1ngdr_willis:anywayz its over now06:18
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lamontMithrandir: you around, or sleeping?06:19
jayok not to keen on this networking thing not working... but other than 2 lockups, ubuntu is pretty cook06:19
s0dak1ngjay:is it fast06:19
s0dak1ngdr_willis:u still there?06:20
jayi have a 1ghz with 512m ram ibm thinkpad06:20
jaynot bad06:20
Dr_Willisbittorrent has 51% done06:20
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i am using xp..i can just format my 2nd partition, and install it on it right06:20
Negazureus is taking a lot more resources than it usually does with this torrent06:21
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  yep shoudl be able to.06:21
s0dak1ngneg:azureus is 2 slow..(java) use ABC torrent..its much better06:21
jaycrap another lockup06:21
jaynow its evolution06:21
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  doh. i forgot when i reisntalled xp on my laptop it laied out my partions funny - lol06:21
s0dak1ngdr_willis:what boot manger does it use?06:21
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  i wold guess GRUB - :P not tried it yet06:21
Negazureus is fine06:21
Negi'm not worried about the speed06:21
Negit's just acting different now06:22
s0dak1ngjay:3rd lockups in a row?06:22
s0dak1ngjay:uh oh06:22
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jayyea, gonna go back to suse 9.106:22
jayunfortunately no gnome 2.8 there06:22
s0dak1ngjay:u tried yoper, userlinux yet?06:22
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jaynope i havent06:23
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Dr_Willisso now i got 3 disrtos to test out. Userlinux, Yoper, and ubuntu06:23
Dr_Willisbeen a busy week for new disrtos :P06:23
s0dak1ngjay:for some reason i never wanted to try distros like mantrake, suse06:23
george_whats the scoop on Mono?  Are you planning to include it?06:23
s0dak1ngjay:just feels too ........bloated and ...06:23
tsenggeorge_: not in this release06:24
jdubgeorge_: it's not in Warty, but perhaps for the next release06:24
jayaargggh. locked again06:24
xxorso I can add normal debian sources .. and install packages ?06:24
tsenggeorge_: atm im trying to rebuild the debina packages on warty06:24
sanxiyngeorge_: Debian already includes much Mono stuffs.06:24
jdubxxor: you don't add debian sources06:24
jdubxxor: just uncomment the ones in sources.list06:24
Dr_Williswow - i rember now why I NEVER go to fileplanet, or gamespy sites - they want me to pay or wait for downloads... guess they cant handle bittorrent06:24
george_just wondering as I have a gfax package writen in C#, it uses hylafax06:24
sanxiynxxor: "universe" thing.06:24
s0dak1ngdr_willis:one thing i dont like about linux is...there is always new distros and i waste too much time updating packages than using them06:24
s0dak1ngdr_willis:so 1 year ago i said fuck it and been using xp since06:24
jdubgeorge_: you're the gfax author?06:24
tsengthe mono packages in universe seem broken06:24
jdubgeorge_: i've been meaning to get in touch with you about it :)06:25
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  yep. thats good an bad. :P sort of like a House made of legos.. ya are always playign with it.06:25
Negtry filefront.com for game torrent downloads06:25
s0dak1ngdr_willis:which in itself is a waste of time06:25
xxorjdub: sorry I misunderstood before , I found it06:25
george_I'm redoing the UI at the monment, a bit more HIG06:25
jdubgeorge_: excellent!06:25
jdubgeorge_: working on integration with libgnomeprint and/or cups?06:25
george_Damn theres the phone, you could email me george @gmsys.com06:26
george_see ya06:26
npmccallumtseng: it is :)06:26
s0dak1ngdr_willis:how fast are u downloading at?06:26
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  not if you are learning stuff06:26
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Dr_Willisits 72%done now :P06:27
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i rather get stuff done that keep rebuilding everything06:27
Dr_WillisGesh! :P i dident think i could download that fast06:27
s0dak1ngdr_willis: s/that/than06:27
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  so get stuff done. :P self controll06:27
s0dak1ngdr_willis:i have absolutely 0 will power06:27
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  one of the "Ritlin Generation" eh?06:28
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xxorany of the developers here ?06:29
s0dak1ngmy 2 favorite it sites are slashdot and osnews..now both reporting this distro lol06:29
Dr_Willis87% downloaded by bittottent :P06:30
Dr_Willisguess thers a LOT of torrent users out there.06:30
xxorI wouldnt bother06:30
xxorits very buggy 06:30
xxordoesnt support my burners by default06:30
xxorvery limited packages06:30
xxorregular debian stuff doesnt seem to install right06:30
schweebDr_Willis: ritalin06:30
xxorhence why its 'unsupported'06:30
Dr_Willisschweeb,  viagra! :P06:30
s0dak1ngxxor:u talkign about ubuntu?06:30
xxorbecause there so many bugs they cant possibly answer all the email06:31
xxors0dak1ng: yeah06:31
s0dak1ngxxor:not worth it to try?06:31
xxors0dak1ng: no06:31
xxorits lame++06:31
schweebsounds like you just don't know what you're doing06:31
schweeb"doesn't support my burners by default"06:31
xxorschweeb: 10 years running linux06:31
xxorI know when something is lame06:32
xxorand this is06:32
schweebif they're burners worth anything, then they're ATAPI06:32
schweebnothing needs to be "supported", they just speak it06:32
xxorschweeb: make whatever excuses you want06:32
xxorthis dist is lame++06:32
jdubxxor: we have a supported set of packages, and 'universe'06:32
xxornothing is configured right06:32
=== tvon agrees with schweeb
jdubuniverse is a snapshot of debian main06:33
phlaegelmaybe it's just not configured exactly as you think it should be... plenty of other people like it just fine.06:33
jdubwe could not take the time to fix everything in universe for warty06:33
xxorjdub: then apt-get'ing should work right ?06:33
jdubbut i imagine that's one of the first things that our community developers will want to do for hoary06:33
jdubxxor: sure, in most cases06:33
xxorjdub: I run unstable debian .. works fine , I just tried to apt-get install <name> and it failed06:33
phlaegelit's clearly a preview release, but a good one, IMO.06:33
jdubxxor: what's not working for you?06:33
xxorobviously something is wrong06:33
xxorjdub: apt-get install <any_package_name>06:33
tvonxxor: what exactly is happening06:34
jdubxxor: what are you trying to install, and what happens? (paste)06:34
schweebxxor: details are key06:34
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schweebas are supporting bugreports06:34
xxorwell , this will look minor im sure06:34
xxorbut it works in unstable (regular debian box) 06:34
xxorThe following packages have unmet dependencies:06:34
xxor  k3b: Depends: kdebase-bin but it is not installable06:34
xxorE: Broken packages06:34
schweebis that in universe?06:34
schweebor main?06:34
jdubxxor: which lines are uncommented in your sources.list?06:35
schweebuniverse is unsupported06:35
tvonshould k3b even be available?06:35
jdubschweeb: hold on a sec :)06:35
xxorjdub: you told me to uncomment the universe lines06:35
schweebjdub: okay okay, heh06:35
jdubxxor: okay, and did you apt-get update?06:35
mdzjdub: looks like kdebase-bin is not built in universe06:35
lifelessjdub: so, can I congratulate you on a release now ?06:35
xxorjdub: yessir I did06:35
jdubmdz: aha.06:35
jdublifeless: not me, the team06:35
lifeless....ok then. Congrats to the team.06:35
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jdubxxor: okay, so mdz has verified that kdebase-bin was not built in universe, so those packages are unavailable06:35
schweebcould add an unstable source to your list to get kdebase-bin06:35
s0dak1ngdr_willis:almost done ??06:36
s0dak1ngdr_willis:please test it ASAP06:36
xxorjdub: ok well , thats real lame 06:36
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  its done :P06:36
s0dak1ngdr_willis:OKAY GOGOGOGO06:36
mdzschweeb: that's not generally a good idea, for the reasons outlined in the FAQ06:36
jdubxxor: so that doesn't mean the distro is lame, it just means that part of our unsupported set is not working06:36
schweebmdz: I like to live dangerously ;)06:36
jdubxxor: that's totally fixable too, by the way06:36
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  but I gotta redo my partition.:P or can the isntaller repartion a ntfs partion? 06:36
s0dak1ngdr_willis:god damn06:36
xxorjdub: I dont feel like hacking shit to work .. mdk is lame++ and works better than this06:36
s0dak1ngdr_willis:so u have to format xp again?06:36
xxorjdub: so does gentoo06:36
jdubxxor: you don't need to hack shit06:37
jdubxxor: you're trying to use an unsupported package that happens to be broken06:37
schweebmdz: I live by my daily "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" in sid06:37
jdubxxor: if you could file a bug on that, we should be able to fix it06:37
xxorjdub: it works fine in regular debian and debian unstable06:37
phlaegelunsupported packages not working in a preview release??? *gasp* what are we going to do??? ;-)06:37
jdubxxor: sure - this is not regular debian :)06:37
makonight everyone06:37
xxorphlaegel: you should label the bug ridden garbage if you cant install anything from kde06:37
mdzmako: night06:37
schweebxxor: sorry to be a dick, but you need to calm down, and reasonably go through this, because what you are doing is on the brink of trolling... if not actually trolling06:37
xxorhe led me to believe it was good , had gnome 2.8 supported06:37
s0dak1nglol xxor is funny06:38
makooh shit! i forgot a blog entry today.. i think i have a backup for such an occasion06:38
jdubxxor: yes, gnome 2.8 is supported, but kde is not supported06:38
phlaegelhm. *unsupported*. *preview*. hm.06:38
jdubxxor: in many cases, packages 'just work' from universe06:38
tvonUbuntu is a GNOME based distro06:38
jdubxxor: in this case, you've found one that doesn't -> that can be fixed, hwoever06:38
xxorjdub: wheres the bug/development servers ..06:38
tvonxxor: /topic06:39
jdub(note that we generally concentrate on fixing supported stuff)06:39
s0dak1ngis there a message board yet?06:39
makobut if it's simple06:39
tvons0dak1ng: mailing list06:39
jdubs0dak1ng: we have mailing lists, forums coming soon :)06:39
makos0dak1ng: there will be one06:39
schweebphlaegel: it's like having a boberz, but in #ubuntu :p06:39
makos0dak1ng: not yet06:39
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  I have a linux-rescue-cd that CAN resize NTFS partions.. but not sure if this disrtos installer can do that as well.06:39
s0dak1ngno php/vBBS/invision boards??????????....haha06:39
phlaegelschweeb: heh06:39
Dr_Willisanyone know? - Can The Ubuntu Installer resize a ntfs partition?06:39
jdubDr_Willis: it doesn't do ntfs resize06:40
Dr_Willisjdub,  diddly dang. :P06:40
jdubyeah :|06:40
Dr_Willisgotta find that other cd then Lol06:40
xxorjdub: how bigs the development team06:40
s0dak1ngdr_willis:oh well..reformat then?06:40
Dr_Willisit was somthing linux-rescue cd06:40
fabbionemdz: did you build the nv driver on amd64?06:40
tsengxxor: 3406:40
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  NO :P no need to reformat.06:40
s0dak1ngdr_willis:do you have partition pro magic?06:40
jdubxxor: 34 employees of canonical, about half working directly on the distro06:40
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  No need for that either. Thers a Live cd w0th 'qt_Parted' that CAN resize NTFS's06:40
Dr_WillisI used it all the time :) sort of a opensourced PM clone06:41
s0dak1ngdr_willis:aight..whatever u say..just do it fast!06:41
Dr_Willisif i can find the cd06:41
mdzfabbione: no, I haven't yet06:41
s0dak1ngdr_willis:quix quix06:41
mdzfabbione: I forgot in my sleeplessness06:41
s0dak1ngdr_willis:there is also progeny debian linux ..try that as well!06:42
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fabbionemdz: :-)))06:42
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  all at once! :P06:42
fabbionemdz: no big deal06:42
s0dak1ngdr_willis:and libranet06:42
=== Dr_Willis takes all suger away from s0dak1ng
fabbionemdz: i386 reports 4/5 success. the 1 missing is a small glitch that i think i know how to solve06:42
xxorjdub: if its released for free, I dont see the incentive for full-time corp. development06:43
xxorjdub: the team is made up from various industry people right ? people from gnome/project etc .. its not a physical building with 34 actual employees coding right ?06:44
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mdzxxor: correct, they are spread out06:44
jdubtseng: do you want to post your repositories to ubuntu-devel?06:44
Dr_Willisfor those that want to know --->  http://www.sysresccd.org/   is the home of the "SytemRescueCD" a live cd. that has qtparted (a partion magic clone) and other tools.06:44
Dr_Willisits WELL worth downloading and having a cd of it in your tool box. 06:45
=== schweeb twitches
schweebI quite dislike qtparted06:45
cleeschweeb: heh. why?06:45
Dr_Willisschweeb,  it works for me. 06:45
schweebwell, for one thing, if you X out of it, it doesn't ask you if you want to commit06:45
tsengjdub: this is my first time working with debs in several years06:45
tsengjdub: so.. it might take awhile :)06:46
schweebwhich got me not once, but twice06:46
Dr_WillisX out of it. :P thats an interesting "verb"06:46
xxorfound a solution06:46
xxorto some bugs06:46
npmccallumtseng: are you doing just mono? or monodevelop (et al) as well?06:46
jdubtseng: ok ;)06:46
schweebmmm mono06:46
Dr_Willisi had to explaine to several windows users to be sure to "write" changes to disk when useing fdisk.06:46
tsengnpmccallum: right now im shooting to get mono working + muine06:46
jdubtseng: are you building from universe sources or from debian sid?06:46
tsengand blam06:46
tsengjdub: from sid06:46
npmccallumtseng: cool06:46
jdubtseng: ok06:46
tsengit seems to have a "circular dep" if you will06:46
s0dak1ngdr_willis:have u tried the latest windows xp 64 beta?06:47
tvontseng: I was able to install/build mono packages from sid without any problems.  You need to have mcs to build mcs which is kind of a pain, but I just fetched that from unstable06:47
tsengie, i need to install a binary of mono compiler to build the deps to install the mono compiler :)06:47
jdubtseng: (kinda necessary for the latest mono-based apps, but if you have fixes for the packages in universe, we can fix them)06:47
tsengyep yep06:47
Dr_Williss0dak1ng,  ive heard to AVOIDE it like the Plague :P06:48
tsengjdub: im fetching the sources from sid, and rebuilding against ubuntu basically..06:48
schweebwhen is mono expected to make it in to main?06:48
tsengwhen its all done daniels said he'll host it06:48
jdubtseng: yeah06:48
tsengschweeb: next release06:48
jdubschweeb: yeah06:49
tsengyes that06:49
s0dak1ngdr_willis:okay the zip file is erased from my hd as if it was the plague06:49
xxorwhats dev chan06:49
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schweebman, downloading warty over 384kbit cable sucks06:50
s0dak1ngwhat forum software are you guys going to use?06:50
tritiumjdub: care to comment on what you meant by "interesting KDE stuff on the way" in the OSNews interview? :)06:50
xxorschweeb: got it in 20 minutes on this cable .. its 5Mb/sec06:50
clees'all about cable and bittorrent06:50
cleemmm, bittorrent06:50
cleejdub: what kind of numbers are you guys seeing on downloads?06:50
mdzs0dak1ng: I'm not sure that it's been decided yet; do you have any recommendations?06:50
Dr_Willissuper fast for me clee06:51
jdubclee: INSANE bittorrent stats06:51
jdubmdz: got stats?06:51
Dr_Willisclee,  over 400k/s06:51
schweebxxor: well, I'm doing a netinstall06:51
xxorthat u.k mirror I was getting over 400K06:51
cleejdub: I downloaded the i386 ISO over bt06:51
s0dak1ngmdz:well from my experience the top 3 is definitely phpbbs/vBBS and Invision06:51
mdzjdub: what, like ISO downloads?06:51
jdubtritium: soon, soon :)06:51
tsengdaniel said he was getting 100mbs06:51
schweebso I'm installing as I download06:51
xxorjdub: dev chan ?06:51
tsengfrom his torrent06:51
s0dak1ngmdz:just have to pick one from those 306:51
neighborlee56 minutes ;-006:51
jdubxxor: sorry?06:51
tritiumjdub: okay, patience is a virtue, yeah, yeah06:51
mdzs0dak1ng: is there any forum software which _isn't_ full of cross-site scripting vulnerabilities? ;-)06:51
neighborleeI downloaded wrong darn one first time:((barf..ie: amd LOL06:51
xxorjdub: is there a development chan on freenode06:51
jdubxxor: this is it.06:51
diemanmdz: im using phorum at work, its somewhat hackable06:51
jdubxxor: for the time being, we may split off developer discussion later.06:52
mdzxxor: this was it, until today when it became more general06:52
diemanmdz: i like it, but dono if its full of cross-site issues or not or not :)06:52
s0dak1ngmdz:check their mainpages..i can't comment on that since i am a newbie lol06:52
tvonmdz: the site is plone, CMFBoard is pretty good for that :)06:52
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xxorjdub: Ive never made packages before , is it easy ?06:52
jdubxxor: hrm, sometimes06:52
tsengxxor, google the debian developer handbook06:52
tsengits all easy to find.06:53
tvondeb's are a little harder than rpm's, but fairly easy once you've gotten your feet wet06:53
xxortseng: sorry for polling , I know about the handbook06:53
s0dak1ngokay i will download the torrent adn reserve enough hd just for dr_willis to try it first..06:53
s0dak1ngif it works for him i will play with linux again for the first time in a year06:53
s0dak1ngafter a year06:53
mdzxxor: well-behaved software is easier to package than ill, and simple software easier than complex, generally06:54
mdzxxor: it ranges from just dropping files in the right places, to robustly handling database conversions and the like06:55
xxormdz: ah06:55
xxorbleh , how do I setup ATAPI under 2.6.x06:56
schweebit's already set up06:56
mdzit should just work06:56
xxorcdrecord --scanbus gives me nothing 0_o06:56
xxorcdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg*'. Cannot open SCSI driver.06:56
schweebcdrecord -dev=atapi -scanbus06:56
schweebthen: cdrecord -dev=atapi:<LUN> -scanbus06:57
xxorWarning: Open by 'devname' is unintentional and not supported.06:57
xxorcdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open 'atapi'. Cannot open SCSI driver.06:57
tvoncdrecord -dev=/dev/whateva   has worked for me06:57
mdzcdrecord is...disagreeable about this06:57
mdzbut dev=/dev/hdc or similar works fine06:57
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schweebdo you have ide-cd loaded, xxor?06:57
schweeblsmod | grep ide-cd to check06:58
schweebtry -dev=ata -scanbus then06:58
schweebor, do as they say, and point dev at the dev node06:58
schweebthis is a 2.6 thing, not a ubuntu thing.06:59
schweebwell, 2.6/cdrecord06:59
schweebclashing of developers.06:59
xxorok well06:59
xxor/dev/name works06:59
xxor/dev/hda /dev/hdd (cd burner hda , dvd burner hdd)06:59
fabbionemdz: do you mind a test build on ppc too?07:00
xxorproblem is .. no graphical cd burning apps , support that bullshit07:00
xxorso .. hrm , gotta fix it somehow07:01
=== aethyr [~aethyr@dyn006612-twr2-student.cpmc.columbia.edu] has joined #ubuntu
schweebmost of them support it somehow07:01
jdubxxor: we have nautilus-cd-burner, which is integrated into the file manager07:01
tvonnautilus-cd-burner is enough for most users07:01
schweebmost of the apps are wrappers around another library or program 07:01
aethyrhey guys, running ubuntu ;)07:01
jdubaethyr: yay! :)07:01
bskahangcombust supports ata dev arguments07:02
aethyrthe mouse speed is cranked on this distro ;)07:02
bskahangcombust sucks on the gnome 1.x front though07:02
phlaegelI have the same problem with a scsi burner... a fix would be nice to find. it doesn't show up in nautilus-cd-burner or anything.07:02
Hrdwr_BoBgcombust is a terrrible travesty of UI07:02
xxork3b is the best burning app Ive seen so far07:02
xxorgoing to add queue support for it07:02
bskahanHrdwr_BoB: amen07:02
npmccallumaethyr: actually the mouse speed is handled by the kernel07:02
Hrdwr_BoBphlaegel, everyone hates SCSI burners now07:02
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Hrdwr_BoBxxor, yes, k3b is good07:02
phlaegelyeah, but I still have one I'd like to be able to use...07:02
aethyrnpmccallum: hm, it's good bit faster than my gentoo with
aethyrnot horribly so, just noticibly so07:03
Hrdwr_BoBphlaegel, yeah so I do, I mostly use command line though07:03
sdfs23423aethyr:whats faster than gentoo?07:03
npmccallumaethyr: are you using /dev/input/mice on gentoo in your X config?07:03
xxorI prefer gnome , but kde has some real good apps too07:03
mdzfabbione: no problem07:03
phlaegelI usually do to, but nautilus covers most of my burning needs, so I'd like to use it07:03
mdzI'll turn the boxes on now07:03
mdzfabbione: where is the source again?07:03
Hrdwr_BoBwhen you say 'faster' what do you mean07:04
schweebnpmccallum: it's a combo of the WM and kernel07:04
neighborleexxor: ditto that07:04
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schweeband X itself has a resolution setting that can effect sensitivity iirc07:04
aethyrnpmccallum, yup07:04
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neighborleexxor: one of my favs is that kde modeler based on POV...very interesting07:04
npmccallumschweeb: yes07:04
npmccallumschweeb: that was my next question :)07:05
aethyrthe install is very nice though on Ubuntu, best install I've seen for a Debian based distro07:05
aethyrpicked up all my hardware07:05
toryI just finished installing ubuntu. Aside from the name, I'm in love :-)07:05
npmccallumaethyr: good07:05
=== tvon digs the name
sdfs23423aethyr:did u say ubunku is faster than gentoo?07:05
aethyrI think the name is pretty cool 07:05
schweebnpmccallum: ;)07:05
toryThis is honestly the greatest distro I've ever tried. It's like debian but it actually works right out of the box.07:05
neighborleeaethyr, wow thats wonderful..look fwd to it with zest now .heh..07:05
aethyrsdfs23423, haha, I said the mouse was faster than gentoo ;)07:05
xxorgcc not installed by default hehe07:05
aethyrI inadvertantly set off the marketing campaign07:05
neighborleeaethyr, seems doubtful long as 2.6.x is used07:06
Hrdwr_BoBnothing is faster than gentoo07:06
aethyrUbuntu: Faster than Gentoo07:06
mdztory: thanks for the compliments07:06
jdubtory: cool!07:06
tsengwhat is this fast mouse silliness07:06
Hrdwr_BoBgentoo is 100x faster than debian in all tests*07:06
sdfs23423hrdwr_bob:i hear yoper is!07:06
tsengthe acceleration is set higher07:06
torytseng: just turn down the mouse speed07:06
aethyrneighborlee, it definately is, I don't know why, but it's zippy07:06
Hrdwr_BoB* tests not actual tests07:06
tvonHrdwr_BoB: heh07:06
tsengtory: not me, them.07:06
schweebnpmccallum: I remember when I installed 2.5.6something and had X pointed at /dev/psaux and /dev/input/mice... much to my surprise, my mouse was moving literally twice as faste, cause of the ps2 module changes, heh07:06
xxortseng: yeah , my desktop seems MUCH quicker .. not just the mouse either 07:06
tsengso much FUD.07:06
toryjdub: another nice thing is that the menus are simple to use07:06
Hrdwr_BoBlol schweeb07:06
tsengxxor: it is using nptl07:06
jdubmdz: when was the last cd build?07:06
npmccallumschweeb: yeah, that tricked me out too07:07
jdubtory: no crap! :)07:07
schweebtook me like a week to figure that out07:07
aethyrit is a very smooth desktop though out of the box, I want to play with some of the GNOME 2.8 stuff :)07:07
xxornative posix thread ?07:07
=== sdfs23423 is now known as soda
schweebso I just plugged in a damn USB mouse07:07
jdubtory: i mean, there isn't any crap,. hrm ;)07:07
neighborleeHrdwr_BoB, 100x would seem to be a slight exageration <G>07:07
toryis there anyway to install msttcorefonts so I can get arial?07:07
sodaaethyr: u like it so far?07:07
jdubaethyr: stick in a usb storage device :)07:07
mdzxxor: several people have said that it subjectively seems fast; perhaps because of 2.6 by default (compared to Debian), newer versions of some software, etc.07:07
schweebI seem to remember reading msttcorefonts being in main07:08
Hrdwr_BoBneighborlee, if I didn't make it crazy, some idiot would beleive me07:08
aethyrsoda, indeed I do, absolutely no hiccups on install07:08
jdubtory: i think they are available in universe07:08
mdzjdub: the last CD build was the preview07:08
neighborleeHrdwr_BoB, ROFL07:08
aethyrjdub, yea, I'm getting some stuff to plug in now07:08
schweebor maybe I lie07:08
toryjdub: ok07:08
jdubmdz: tops07:08
mdzjdub: finished a bit after 1400 UTC07:08
tritiummy mouse was fast when I had both a Generic Mouse and a Configured Mouse configured as InputDevices in my XF86Config-407:08
tsenganother circle here.. need to install monodoc to build gtk-sharp07:08
tsenggtk-sharp needs monodoc07:09
sodawill ubuntu support my radeon 9600 card?07:09
xxorwell , almost have my system back to normal07:09
aethyrjdub: is the gtk theme based on indubstrial? (I am running Indubstrial with GNOME 2.6 on my Gentoo install).07:09
mdzsoda: do you have the PCI IDs for the exact card?07:10
aethyrlooks similar07:10
jdubaethyr: yeah, just with added brown ;)07:10
aethyrexcellent :)07:10
jdubtory: actually, msttcorefonts is not there, i'll check why07:10
=== tseng installed indubstrial in .themes anyway
mdzjdub: because it's in contrib/non-free07:10
schweebjdub: thought I read somewhere in the wiki that msttcorefonts was being considered for main, regardless of the legal aspect... (no browser yet to confirm)07:10
jdubmdz: mm, just remembered07:10
neighborleedoesn't matter but...did you guys put in synatpic as default UI to apt ?07:11
jdubtory: you can add debian's contrib/non-free lines, they work reasonably well (not a lot of dependency issues tehre... ;)07:11
jdubneighborlee: yes, for this release07:11
neighborleejdub: ic..what are you going for in next07:12
bob2hm, I wonder if clug wants a demo07:12
=== JADuncan [~james@cpc1-brig3-5-0-cust234.brtn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #Ubuntu
jdubneighborlee: got some funky plans for an easy install/uninstall proggie and update notifier07:12
jdubneighborlee: see the HoaryHedgehog page on the wiki07:12
sodamdz:maybe 4150 to 415207:12
neighborleejdub: ok will do07:12
neighborleejdub: very nice..I like innovation ;-0007:12
aethyrwow, I just noticed the desktop is clean??07:12
JADuncanNo root account by default?07:13
jdubJADuncan: it's disabled, everything uses sudo :-)07:13
neighborleejdub: please consider ( unless you already are) a panel applet notifier for updating07:13
jdubneighborlee: yes, will definitely have that07:13
aethyryea, how does the no root thing work anyways?07:13
npmccallumneighborlee: we already are07:13
neighborleekewl guys07:13
JADuncanis that not a little insecure?07:13
aethyrI never put in any root password07:13
mdzfabbione: do we support radeon R300 with the xfree86 driver?07:13
jdubaethyr: the first user has full sudo access07:13
aethyrjdub: ah, ok07:13
jdubJADuncan: nup :)07:13
mdzdaniels: same question?07:13
jdubJADuncan: it's disabled, not no-password :)07:13
npmccallummdz: you have an R300 in your thinkpad, don't you?07:14
sodamdz:i think its RV35007:14
JADuncanthe only thing that would worry me about that is that it means that any exploitation of the user account leads directly to full system control07:14
sodamdz:oh well, i will know the answer as soon as dr_willis try it07:14
mdznpmccallum: I have a mobility M7, which is like a radeon 750007:14
mdzwhich is RV200 I think07:15
Nafaijdub: Holding up to the slashdoting? :)07:15
JADuncanor does sudo still require a password eg mac osx?07:15
npmccallummdz: oh, I have the Fire GL something or other which is the M10 I think07:15
mdzsoda: I think it's supported at least in 2D, and we'll have the ATI binary driver easily installable very soon07:15
sodatry here07:15
jdubJADuncan: sudo to root requires the user password07:15
npmccallummdz: its either R300 or R350, but it works great with ubuntu07:15
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=== soda is now known as s0dak1ng
aethyrhere's an odd question: I noticed that XChat is setup to use Monospace, yet my fonts don't look like monospace to me (the "l" has a little loopy thing on the bottom).  Are these regular bitstream vera fonts?07:16
mdzs0dak1ng: best to just try it and see :-)07:16
s0dak1ngmdz:i am sure 2d will work..07:16
s0dak1ngmd:yah..i will try it07:16
s0dak1ngmd:can u give me the amd64 btlink?07:17
JADuncanjdub: you don't mind a bit of questioning right?07:17
aethyrjeff's fielding questions like a pro ;)07:17
JADuncanjdub: I am curious as to how stable the prerelease is as I have a friend who is being converted to Linux by me (I run sid) and this looks a little more user friendly out of the box.07:18
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jdubJADuncan: it's very stable07:20
xxorJADuncan: mdk works better out of the box07:20
aethyrjdub: what's the relationship with sid anyways? I know it says on the webpage, but I mean do you guys branch off sid?  I noticed some of the packages have a -ubuntu suffix.07:21
jdubaethyr: we branch off sid, yes07:21
tvonjdub | mdz: http://bskahan.etria.com/07:21
jdubaethyr: we freeze, fix and push :)07:21
JADuncanxxor: mdk lacks a few too many packages for me07:21
xxorburning , sound , and pretty much everything needs CONFIGURED07:21
aethyrthis is my first time in anything debian based for about 3 years07:21
JADuncanxxor: though I do think some of the config apps are nice07:22
xxorand without command line experience , module expereince , package experience , this dist is pretty shitty for a newbie07:22
aethyrer, at least on my personal system, we have computer labs that use debian.07:22
mdzaethyr: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship/document_view07:22
sanxiynJADuncan: Eh, even with Cooker?07:22
xxoroh well , I was sick of mdk anyway .. I wanted debian back and this is close enough 07:22
mdzaethyr: that page explains a bit about how we relate to Debian07:22
xxoranyone remember 'storm' linux ?07:22
xxornow that was fucked up debian heh07:22
xxornothing in that pile worked07:22
JADuncanSanxiyn:  Cooker is slightly better but debian unstable is at 14.5k packages07:23
xxorgot it in an issue of maximum linux in like .. 99 I think07:23
mdzxxor: I have a laptop here that I use for ubuntu install testing.  it has a DVD burner attached.  I install ubuntu, boot it up, play music, and burn DVDs07:23
xxorany idea why sound isnt working ?07:23
mdzxxor: so if it isn't working for you, it's a bug07:23
JADuncanSanxiyn: and the main benefit is not just the number but Debian policy.07:23
xxormdz: my ass07:23
xxormdz: mdk and debian work out of the box .. this is jacked07:23
mdzxxor: I don't understand what you're saying.  I said it was a bug, and you disagreed with me.  What do you mean to say?07:24
schweebtry installing from d-i at the moment, xxor, and you'll find yourself wrong07:24
Nafaixxor: This is a *pre-release* btw07:24
aethyrmdz: thanks for that link, that clarifies the relationship a bit07:25
NafaiI installed with the d-i just yesterday. :)07:25
schweebNafai: it's quite nice07:25
jdubmdz: hey, i got the bsdutils thing07:25
jdubmdz: just doing an integrity check07:25
xxorI installed with d-i07:25
schweebbut some of the stuff still requires cmdline, Nafai 07:25
mdzjdub: oh? interesting07:25
schweebOSS and ALSA drivers loaded07:25
schweebI understand it's fixed not07:25
jdubmdz: check didn't even start and it said, "no valid ubuntu cd-rom"07:25
aethyrwoah, I'm not sure what happened, but when I changed my time my desktop faded out, then faded back in?  ... never seen that one happen before07:26
mdzjdub: md5 OK?07:26
mdzaethyr: sounds like it caused the screensaver to activate07:26
xxorok , I found the problem with sound07:26
jdubmdz: just running it now07:26
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xxorI have a ONboard soundcard , (bleh) I have to disable the modules from loading07:26
schweebcan't you disable the onboard in the BIOS?07:26
=== tritium [~Tritium@12-222-92-80.client.insightBB.com] has left #ubuntu ["Client]
schweebthen hotplug/discover won't find the device to load the modules07:27
mdzwhy is it a problem for the modules to be loaded?07:27
xxorschweeb: I thought I had it disabled in BIOS *Shrug* .. power outage ++ onboard battary is out07:27
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xxorprob went back to default07:27
schweebsweet, finally done downloading all the packages07:28
mdzfabbione: where is the source you want me to build for nv?07:28
mdzschweeb: doing a network install?07:28
jdubmdz: hrm, can't md5sum it - i/o error07:28
schweebmdz: yea, from the mini.iso07:29
NafaiI wonder if I will have a reason / opportunity to try ubuntu out sometime...07:29
schweebworkin quite well07:29
mdzschweeb: oh, good07:29
schweebI would recommend a mini.iso + base udebs though07:29
jdubmdz: must've made a coaster07:29
mdzschweeb: would you mind sending an install report to the mailing list when it's done?  if you encounter any problem, we want to hear about those of course, but also if it works07:29
schweebno prob07:29
schweebuser or dev list?07:30
aethyrdoh, no dvd support?07:30
aethyrlibdvdread: Encrypted DVD support unavailable.07:30
mdzschweeb: users, that's where everyone is currently07:30
mdzaethyr: no decss, no :-)07:31
jdubaethyr: no, difficult legal issues07:31
schweebmdz: you guys want any specific files generated by the installer included?07:31
mdzschweeb: if you have problems, /var/log/debian-installer and /var/log/base-config.log07:31
JADuncanare you going to make a semi-easy shortcut to decss and other such things?07:32
JADuncanmaybe a non-US server07:32
schweebmdz: <3 netinstalls so much07:32
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aethyrwell, inserting data cds works07:33
=== aethyr <3's g-v-m
xxorroxxwoowee , sound works !07:34
spikebthis is pretty darn nice07:34
aethyryea, sound works out of the box, that was nice07:34
spikebbut i have an issue, heh.07:34
aethyrspikeb: what's up?07:34
xxorroxxare the pointeres gnome specific or X or what07:34
xxorroxxthey look sweat07:34
npmccallumJADuncan: all our servers so far are nonUS servers, that doesn't avoid the legal issues though07:35
xxorroxxsweet rather07:35
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aethyrit's Whiteglass, I believe07:35
aethyranyone can use them with XFree/Xorg07:35
spikebaethyr, nautilus isn't showing any desktop icons for me.07:35
aethyrspikeb: the desktop is clean :)07:35
aethyrit's a feature07:35
xxorroxxthat is pretty cool07:35
cleeno, it's not whiteglass07:35
cleeit's jimmac07:35
spikebaethyr, how do i fix that ? heh07:35
aethyryea, I thought nautilus grashed07:35
pittiMorning guys07:35
bskahanout of curiosity, e-d-s support isn't compiled into the panel?07:35
cleeunless I'm completely wrong and it changed07:35
aethyrclee: I might be wrong, it lokoed like whiteglass to me07:36
jdubbskahan: it is07:36
bskahanhrm, 07:36
schweebI have a question... everyone's complaining about the lack of desktop icons - this a gnome 2.8 thing, or a ubuntu decision?  just curious, and I'm about 5 mins from having a browser07:36
jdubschweeb: ubuntu07:36
=== bskahan goes to figure out why clock applet isn't playing nice
jdubschweeb: faq entry in a minute07:36
RemmyI never see my desktop anyways07:36
xxorroxxaethyr: question , why does every folder open a new window when I double click like win95 heh , can I change that ?07:36
RemmyI use it to run programs, not to look at icons :)07:36
spikebjdub, including how to change it?07:36
npmccallumschweeb: ubuntu decision07:36
tsengjdub: i got it mate.07:37
jdubspikeb: heh, okay :)07:37
spikebxxorroxx, yes you can. by default nautilus doesnt use browser mode07:37
tsengjdub: running muine now07:37
jdubtseng: sweet :)07:37
aethyrxxorroxx: I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not ;)07:37
sanxiyntseng: muine here, too. (Sid :-)07:37
aethyrxxorroxx: but yea, you can change it (as of GNOME 2.8)07:37
jdubtseng: daniel is on a plane atm, btw ;)07:37
tsengah yeah07:37
xxorroxxaethyr: fixed it07:37
spikebxxorroxx, in the computer menu, go to desktop preferences, and file management. you'll see something about a browser mode - that's what you need07:37
spikebim too slow07:37
aethyrspikeb: hold on, I'm working on fixing your problem07:37
tsengjdub: i need help setting up an apt repo07:37
spikebaethyr, ok07:37
tsengjdub: im just doing dpkg -i07:38
tsengor i can mail you the goods07:38
spikebonce i know how to "fix" my "problem" i can decide which way i like better...heh07:38
tsengi have blam built also07:38
tsengsanxiyn: i rebuilt everything against warty07:39
sanxiyntseng: Aha.07:39
tsengyeah, a bit more challenging :)07:39
spikebthis is gonna rock - a stable, Free, updated Debian distro.07:39
tsengnot too bad though07:39
sanxiyntseng: Was building NAnt easy?07:39
tsengi built no such thing07:39
sanxiyntseng: Yep. (I had some problems.)07:39
schweebalright, went through a netinstall with a total of zero visible errors07:39
sanxiynAh. Good for you.07:39
=== amit [~dotnix@cpe-24-165-95-103.socal.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu
xxorroxxcan rythmbox 'burn by album'07:40
xxorroxxthat would be awsome+=07:40
sanxiynIt seems most Gtk# programs do provide ./configure; make, but other C# programs uses NAnt (like Apache Ant) or worse, Visual Studio project file.07:40
aethyrspikeb: ok, I think you can go to gconf-editor and to go apps -> nautilus -> desktop -> *_icon_visible (click whatever you want to see)07:40
xxorroxxburn_album (convert to wav) burn_at_speed (delete wavs) 07:40
spikebaethyr, i'll give that a shot07:41
xxorroxxI'll add the module for burning07:41
xxorroxxscrew it07:41
xxorroxxbored anyways07:42
aethyrthis is really well put together for a preview release, I'm impressed :)07:42
aethyrgood job ubuntu07:42
sanxiynprj2make can convert Visual Studio project to Makefile, and while it works, I don't like it very much. :(07:43
xxorroxxif it could install any kde package , itd be straight07:43
npmccallumaethyr: thanks, were glad to have you here to test it :)07:43
spikebahh there we go07:43
spikebaethyr, thanks for the help07:43
aethyrit doesn't hurt that it's running my favorite DE ;)07:43
aethyrspikeb: np07:43
spikebyes, this IS very well put together for a preview release.07:43
spikeband also running MY favorite DE. :)07:43
amitim surprised that ubuntu actually supports ppc07:43
amitanyone here tried it07:44
spikebim on it right now.07:44
aethyramit: sorry, I don't have a mac :(07:44
Hrdwr_BoBa lot of the ubuntu developers use powerbooks07:44
aethyrbut if you buy me an iBook, I'd be happy to help test it07:44
spikebamit, i have ubuntu on my ibook07:44
spikebworkin just dandy07:44
amitplanning to install it on my home desktop07:44
amiti was actually planning to install debian but...i heard the installation system for ubuntu was great07:44
spikebmy desktop has Syllable (another open source OS) on it. :)07:45
aethyrspikeb: how does linux run in terms of suspending and speedstep (or whatever it's called on macs)07:45
spikebamit, it is.07:45
spikebaethyr, on my gen ibook, it's flawless07:45
xxorroxxmultiple id3 tag edit (multiple track edit) doesnt work with rythmbox07:45
spikebeverything on this ibook is supported by linux.07:45
amitman im really starting to get impressed by ubunut07:45
npmccallumspikeb: Syllable is quite interesting07:45
spikebnpmccallum, yes it is :)07:45
amitso how does apt work....does ubuntu use debian sources?07:46
spikebno, it uses ubuntu sources.07:46
aethyrjust a suggestion from a gentoo user, you guys might want to give some thought into setting up a forum07:46
jdub^ point 13 about desktop icons07:46
npmccallumspikeb: some things about it I really like, others I don't... You get that with any OS though07:46
aethyrthe gentoo forums are a pretty big hit07:46
spikebnpmccallum, that's very true. especially young ones.07:46
spikebforums are always good. :)07:46
xxorroxxRythmbox integration as an applet into the panel , is a VERY nice feature07:46
npmccallumaethyr: I'm also a gentoo dev, forums are in the works07:46
thaytanKamion: awake?07:46
spikebnpmccallum, you're all over the open source world aren't you07:46
npmccallumspikeb: I try :)07:47
aethyrnpmccallum: hah, how many machines do you have? ;)07:47
amitso any tips on installing it on a Mac?07:47
spikebwell that rocks07:47
amitor is it pretty straight forward07:47
jdubamit: stick the cd in, reboot ;)07:47
xxorroxxamit: I dont think there is a ppc build at the moment07:47
spikebamit, boot from the cd, follow the install, reboot, login07:47
spikebyes ther eis xxorroxx07:47
jdubxxorroxx: there definitely is :)07:47
=== spikeb is running it
spikebLinux zeus #1 Tue Sep 14 07:36:05 UTC 2004 ppc GNU/Linux07:47
npmccallumaethyr: two, my dev box and my server.  Server never gets touched though07:47
xxorroxxno shit , I didnt see it , thats awsome07:47
xxorroxxI want a copy for my G507:47
schweebwow, I like this install a lot07:47
spikebamit, the install is text based, but VERY easy to follow.07:47
aethyrnpmccallum: so are you just gonna develop for both?07:47
amitawesome! how long is the install?07:48
schweeb20 mins or so07:48
aethyramit: about 25 min?07:48
spikebthat i can't tell you - i wasn't paying attention07:48
xxorroxxspikeb: what kinda mac you got07:48
spikebi was watching a movie while it installed and i glanced over from time to time07:48
spikebxxorroxx, G3 ibook 700mhz07:48
xxorroxxspikeb: dont ya like os x ?07:49
spikebmy favorite computer i've _ever_ had07:49
spikebxxorroxx, not really07:49
spikebit's good, but not very configurable07:49
npmccallumaethyr: right now (with a release pending) all my efforts are on ubuntu right now07:49
npmccallumcanonical has some stuff in the works that will benefit all distros though, wait and see :)07:49
spikebxxorroxx, I hate being shoved into a box by an OS - OSX and Windows both do that.07:49
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spikebplus, i am an open source zealot07:50
jdubaethyr: by day, npmccallum works on ubuntu, by night, he waits for gentoo builds to finish!07:50
spikeblol jdub07:50
=== jdub grins at npmccallum
=== tseng is also a gentoo dev
spikebmaybe he works on ubuntu while he's waiting for the compiles :)07:50
spikebtseng, cool. good work :)07:50
aethyrjdub: pbthh ;)07:50
=== npmccallum glares back at jdub
tsengthanks spike07:50
spikebnew evolution is pretty spiffy07:50
npmccallumspikeb: when you're a dev, you have to wait for the compiles anyway ;)07:51
spikebnpmccallum, that you do07:51
tsengthey released 2.0 right after i committed
=== spikeb is a syllable dev
aethyrI use mutt :(07:51
tsengi cried07:51
spikebmutt rocks too07:51
aethyrluckily it comes with mutt :)07:51
jdubyay mutt!07:51
spikebgotta change my clock format07:51
jdubyay evolution for everything else ;)07:52
npmccallumwell, I have greek class in 6 hours, so I'm going to bed07:52
npmccallumnight all07:52
aethyrnpmccallum: later07:52
spikebi have to note there doesn't seem to be button two and button three defined on the mac build07:52
jdubnight npmccallum 07:52
jdubsleep well07:52
tsengsame here07:52
aethyrspikeb: yea, I had to change mine too, I thought GNOME defaulted to 12 hour clock?07:52
tseng(class, bed)07:52
npmccallumjdub: I will, letting my compiles happen overnight ;)07:52
npmccallumjdub: and I actually don't have a gentoo install anywhere in the house right now :)07:53
aethyrjdub: where do you work anyways?  It doesn't seem like you work for a linux related company (at least you never mention it on planetgnome)07:53
aethyrI can only assume microsoft, hehe07:53
jdubaethyr: been working for canonical for ~6 months now :)07:53
aethyroh ok, cool07:54
jdubaethyr: previously i did independent consulting, worked for isps, etc.07:54
spikebi foudn it07:55
aethyrjdub: good job with GNOME 2.8 as well07:55
spikebfound, even.07:55
spikebgnome 2.8 rocks.07:55
aethyryea, I'm enjoying it so far07:56
aethyrI was a bit worried when I kept seeing all the freeze break requests ;)07:56
aethyrbut nothing has blown up yet07:56
sanxiynHm. Perhaps this is inevitable: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-September/000019.html07:56
schweebwhat's the "correct" way to install/set up the NVIDIA drivers in ubuntu?07:56
spikebthe ONLY bug i have found in the ppc install is pmu perms being broken07:56
aethyrheh, amusing considering someone made a post on /. earlier saying how all the distros were using KDE :P07:56
jdubaethyr: yeah, mostly pretty sane last minute things07:57
aethyr(or at least "most of the distros")07:57
spikebaethyr, they are. im glad i found one with gnome07:57
schweebapt-get install the restricted kernel modules, and then add the nvidia stuff to your config?  or is there some kind of X config program I should be using?07:57
spikebas the supported default customized stuff07:57
jblacksanxiyn: Correct, ubuntu doesn't "do kde", however, its compatible with debian, so you can add a line to your sources.list and get kde.07:57
aethyrwell, who knows what suse is doing (ok, well some people might, but they're probably under NDA)07:57
spikebgood point.07:57
fabbioneschweeb: install the linux-restriced and nvidia-glx07:57
jblackThat's what I'm doing on my ubuntu system. http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~jblack/MixingUbuntuAndDebian.png07:58
fabbioneschweeb: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree8607:58
schweebahh, thx much07:58
fabbioneschweeb: the first question will ask you about which driver you want to use.. select nvidia and so on...07:58
sanxiynI hope it doesn't become GNOME vs KDE flamewar. UserLinux suffered from it in the beginning.07:58
schweebfabbione: gotcha, done it a thousand times, just wanted the "ubuntu" way07:58
fabbioneschweeb: all the other questions should be pre-answered with proper values07:58
fabbioneschweeb: it will be simpler later..07:59
aethyrI don't understand why GNOME can't have a nice integrated distro without people having a fit07:59
spikebsanxiyn, i know an easy way to have it not become that07:59
schweebfabbione: understood07:59
spikebsanxiyn, one simple answer to that question - "because we wanted it that way"07:59
jblackspikeb: Or maybe it was too much to take on for the first version? 08:00
ficusplanetWas the smooth engine not included with Ubuntu?08:00
schweebfabbione: kinda like the first few times in debian where you compile the kernel by hand, and then you find out about make-kpkg... better to do it the distro-preferred way ;)08:00
aethyrficusplanet: no it is, it's Glider08:00
aethyrthey changed the name for the release08:00
fabbioneschweeb: ehehe there is no need to compile the driver..08:01
fabbioneschweeb: even if you still get the nvidia-kernel-source08:01
fabbioneschweeb: the binary kernel module is precompiled (if you use a standard kernel)08:01
NafaiWorking for Canonical sounds like it would be fun...08:01
spikeboooh family guy is on08:01
fabbioneotherwise you got the sources :-)08:01
ficusplanetaethyr: As far as I can tell, though, the engine (Smooth Engine) isn't installed to make Glider look right.  I'm getting a boxy, non-Glider-like look over here.08:01
spikebback lader folks08:01
spikeblater even08:01
jblackNafai: Its a _lot_ of work, but you go to bed at night realizing you did good work. :) 08:02
Nafaijblack: Sounds like a good thing to me.08:02
schweebfabbione: I mean the kernel in general08:02
schweebfabbione: I do a lot with User Mode Linux, so I use a lot of patches08:02
ficusplanetaethyr: And I don't see libsmooth or libglider in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/engines08:02
schweebfabbione: in fact, I'm IRCing from a UML08:02
fabbioneschweeb: ehhe nice :-)08:03
fabbioneschweeb: i have to assume that people don't always know stuff, when i am answering here.. at least in the beggining when i will picture who is who ;)08:03
aethyrficusplanet: hm, I thought it was supposed to be integrated into gnome-themes ... you might have to defer to a GNOME maintainer... (the only one I know here is jdub...)08:03
sanxiynWill Ubuntu include Flash.08:04
sanxiyn(No, I don't want to troll here.)08:04
npmccallumsanxiyn: macromedia does not allow redistribution of flash on linux, period.08:04
sanxiynnpmccallum: Will it include http://swfdec.sf.net/ or http://gplflash.sf.net/ then?08:04
ficusplanetjdub: The smooth engine was meant to be included by default, right?08:05
aethyrsupposedly firefox 1.0 will download flash automatically08:05
jdubficusplanet: yow, that's a great bug - could you please file that for us?08:05
aethyrthat's what I heard anyways08:05
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ficusplanetjdub: Sure thing.08:05
npmccallumsanxiyn: swfdec is definately in (at least) universe08:05
aethyrif firefox 1.0 fetches it automatically, that would theoretically take care of the issue for most ubuntu users...08:06
sanxiynaethyr: Not for PPC users I guess?08:06
aethyrsanxiyn: well, they were kind of screwed anyways, no?08:06
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aethyrI dunno what the situation is with macromedia + ppc08:06
punkassjust curious does the current iso download have gnome 2.8 in it?08:07
npmccallumok, I'm really going to bed now... night08:07
aethyrpunkass: yup, a complete 2.808:07
sanxiynaethyr: Macromedia doesn't care. Period.08:07
punkasscool thanks08:07
aethyrwell, except for the bug ficusplanet just found ;)08:07
punkassa bad one?08:07
aethyrjust a file missing from the Glider theme08:07
aethyrbut that's not default on Ubuntu, nor GNOME 2.808:07
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rviraniHow is the PPC port08:09
rviranierr ubunti for powerpc08:09
aethyrseems good from those in here that were using it08:09
mdzworks quite nicely08:09
rviraniI have a new ibook ppc and I cannot get the ATI card to work in gentoo08:10
rviranithought I might try ubuntu08:10
mdzseveral canonical staff use ubuntu on powerbooks08:10
punkassand is this distro based on "testing"08:10
rviranicomes with latest gnome means I am very impressed :D08:10
highvoltageI just installed ubuntu on my laptop08:10
mdzpunkass: no, unstable08:10
ficusplanetpunkass: based upon unstable, I believe.08:10
highvoltageVERY nice :)08:10
rviranimdz: what do you mean?08:10
mdzpunkass: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship/document_view08:10
punkasscool thanks08:10
highvoltagecan I ask a question?08:10
punkasswas just there..couldnt find where it said08:11
mdzrvirani: Canonical Ltd. is the company who sponsors ubuntu development08:11
ficusplanethighvoltage: Of course.08:11
highvoltageI did a default install and it detected my centrino wireless adapter08:11
mdzpunkass: hmm, it looks like it doesn't mention unstable explicitly on that page; it probably should.  I'll make a note08:11
highvoltageIsn't that a proprietary driver?08:12
jdubficusplanet: dude, you are finding some nice bugs ;-)08:12
schweebthis was literally the easiest linux install I've ever done08:12
jdubficusplanet: thanks08:12
schweebincluding knoppix disks08:12
highvoltageexcept that it didn't ask for a root password :)08:12
aethyryea, I couldn't believe I was installing something based on Debian ;)08:12
schweebI already know about sudo08:13
=== aethyr remembers the last time(s) he installed debian
schweebI don't mind debian installs08:13
punkassah the new debian installer is gettin pretty easy08:13
schweebI find it quite simple08:13
aethyrdid you happen to install it ~3-4 years ago?08:13
mdzhighvoltage: no, it's an open source driver developed by Intel08:13
rviranimdz: ahh cool08:13
schweebI installed it like 6 years ago, aethyr 08:13
schweebmaybe 708:13
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rviranisounds like its gonna be a good ... go08:13
schweebthe only hard part then and now is X, really08:14
ficusplanetjdub: No problem.  Just having a look around my new distro of choice.08:14
aethyrschweeb: well, the last time I installed it was around 3-4 years ago on a few different machines.  it went... not spectacularly08:14
rviranihopefullty its not impossible to install like debian :D08:14
mdzhighvoltage: ipw2200.sourceforge.net08:14
rviranidebian just sucks, I have never used it cause I just cant get it to install08:14
highvoltagemdz: ah, ok. thanks08:14
rviraniits impossible, and I have been on a linux box for 9 years08:14
punkassu guys have the nvidia drivers in there?08:14
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highvoltageI used the sarge installer and that worked quite well. Knoppix installs too.08:14
mdzpunkass: yes08:14
schweebpunkass: they're in "restricted"08:14
naesjust wondering08:14
punkassnice :)08:14
rviranieven gentoo is easier than debian...08:15
naesis there anyting paticularly special about ubuntu gnu/linux?08:15
sanxiynrvirani: What are you talking about?08:15
schweebrvirani: ....08:15
highvoltageIn South Africa, there are 10 and 12 year olds installing Debian08:15
rviranisanxiyn: debian being impossible to install08:15
highvoltageIt can't be that hard :)08:15
schweebthere's nothing particularly hard about debian08:15
rviranimaybe I am just stupid08:15
punkasslol debian is not hard to install..not now anyways08:15
schweebpeople just overanalyze the installer occasionally08:15
sanxiynrvirani: No it isn't. I easily installed Potato, Woody, Sarge before.08:15
rviranipunkass: I havent seen the new installer08:15
=== tlhIngan_jIH wonders isn't Ubuntu Debian-based? And if Debian sucks so much why is Ubuntu based on Debian then? hmmm
punkassoh..its pretty easy now08:16
schweebthey hear how hard to install it, and they're predestined to consider it hard08:16
rviranitlhIngan_jIH: well you obviously werent payin attention :D08:16
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highvoltageI see there's a user called wartylog. How do I access the logs?08:16
highvoltage(sorry, IRC noob)08:16
rviranischweeb: I just remember trying to read through the piles of docs08:16
rviraninone of them got to the point08:16
schweebI installed w/o docs08:17
rviranischweeb: maybe that is what I should have done08:17
schweeband for any particular package, /usr/share/doc/<name>/README.Debian is your friend08:17
rviraniactually I think I did get it to install ounce08:17
tlhIngan_jIHBut both Woody and the D-I especially are but really chicken feat aren't they? ;008:17
rviranibut all the software was old... so I nuked it in favor or something more bleeding edge08:17
sanxiyntlhIngan_jIH: ?08:17
mdznaes: ubuntu shares the many advantages of Debian, but with regular, 6-month releases, a focus on usability, up to date GNOME, etc.08:17
rviraniubuntu is almost done08:17
punkassyeah when i install debian..i change right to unstable packages08:18
ficusplanetI'm not having much luck with totem here either.08:18
schweebwithout README.Debian you'd have to *gasp* read all the documentation08:18
mdzhighvoltage: I don't think the logs have been moved to the public website yet08:18
tlhIngan_jIHyeah the release cycle of Debian kinda sucks for desktop users but well, for those on servers I suppose 2 years is a reasonable timeframe08:18
sanxiyntlhIngan_jIH: Well, use testing then...08:19
mdzficusplanet: unfortunately, totem can't play very many file formats without patented codecs, which we do not include on the CD08:19
mdzficusplanet: you can install totem-xine from universe for more functionality08:19
schweebI use testing on servers and unstable on desktops08:19
=== rvirani scanters off to read the ppc docs
punkassschweeb: sounds about right 08:19
ficusplanetmdz: I'm having trouble with just MP3s, though, which rhythmbox is handling fine.08:19
mdzschweeb: you run servers without security updates?08:19
schweebif you have some semblance of problem solving, you can deal with either branch08:19
highvoltageAnyone else having FireFox stability issues on warty?08:19
schweebmdz: personal servers, definitely08:19
tlhIngan_jIHsanxiyn: I have SID/SCUD installs running on 2 boxes here...testing isn't it actually more Experimental than experimental is at times? ;)08:19
highvoltageMy status bar keeps flickering08:19
mdzficusplanet: hmm08:19
aethyrhighvoltage: I haven't noticed that...08:20
schweebmdz: work servers, just started going to Sarge08:20
sanxiyntlhIngan_jIH: Hehe.08:20
schweebin the last month08:20
aethyrhighvoltage: any specific conditions?08:20
ficusplanetWhich is, of course, strange, since they both use Gstreamer.08:20
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schweebbut they were on RedHat *shudder*08:20
schweebsome were still on 7.208:20
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highvoltageI don't know. I'm using it now for the second time. I have three tabs open, first the ubuntu wiki, and then two woth mailman subscriptions08:21
highvoltageI'll restart Firefox and see what happens08:21
punkassso is gnome 2.8 all its cracked up to be?08:21
highvoltagehmm.. fine now08:21
jdubpunkass: it's kickass, punkass!08:21
ficusplanetpunkass: Yup.08:21
=== jdub usually says 'arse' ;)
punkassnice glad to hear it...08:22
aethyrit has scalable nibbles, I mean, c'mon!08:22
=== punkass waits for iso to finish downloading
aethyryou can't beat scalable nibbles08:22
neighborleebb time to install ;-008:22
tlhIngan_jIHUbuntu sure looks tempting I must say. can't wait to lay me hands on Gnome 2.8 :008:22
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aethyryea, I'm guessing the timing on the release wasn't accidental08:23
aethyrfirst chance for everyone to try out GNOME 2.8 :)08:23
jdubaethyr: our release process is synced with gnome's :)08:23
highvoltagewill there be any KDE sources?08:23
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highvoltageOr do I get that from sarge?08:23
jdubhighvoltage: KDE is available in universe08:23
jdubhighvoltage: we're just fixing up some breakage in there atm08:23
jblackjdub: It is? 08:23
highvoltageWhere's that? :)08:23
tlhIngan_jIHyou guys must be credited for a great effort in getting 2.8 in...heard Debian will not have 2.8 in Sid until Sarge becomes Stable...hmmm08:24
jdubhighvoltage: you need to uncomment universe in your sources.list08:24
punkasshow does ubuntu handle apt-get upgrade?08:24
highvoltageYES! I must say, Ubuntu is WAY impressive08:24
jdubhighvoltage: but give it a little while, we need to fix a couple of things08:24
aethyrjdub: did you help get 2.8 into sarge?  I thought Jordi handled a lot of that...08:24
sanxiynaethyr: You mean 2.6.08:24
jdubaethyr: 2.8 won't be in sarge08:24
aethyrer, yea, sorry08:24
tlhIngan_jIHvia backports maybe? ;)08:24
=== aethyr isn't a debian user, I just see what gets discussed on planetgnome
jdubaethyr: but jordi was at our conference in oxford, we helped a bit with 2.8 in experimental:)08:25
aethyrok, but 2.8 is in sid? I remember seeing something about that recently...08:25
mdzficusplanet: totem plays both mp3 and vorbis OK for me08:25
ficusplanetjdub: Are you guys planning on shying away from Mono or including it, Muine, F-spot, Blam, etc.?08:25
mdzficusplanet: care to file a bug report?08:26
ed0njdub, are there any repos that should I add for getting your gnome-2.8 or is it in experimental?08:26
jdubficusplanet: not sure, we'll see for our next release08:26
ficusplanetmdz: I get crashes when using the gstreamer backend.08:26
jdubed0n: it's in ubuntu by default08:26
tlhIngan_jIHaethyr: no 2.7 is in Experimental...no 2.8 in Sid08:26
ficusplanetEh, for me OSS was the default audio sink in gstreamer, is that a bug?08:26
aethyrI'm surprised none of the dbus stuff needs setting up... this was my first experience with dbus/hal, I didn't expect it to "just work"08:26
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sanxiynMono ANd DotGNU is now in Debian unstable.08:27
GheRiverohi people08:27
punkassyou guys are killin me...i want to play with new fun stuff :)08:27
schweebyou got GNOME 2.808:27
schweebwhat more can you ask08:27
=== aethyr clicks on things randomly
aethyrnew toys!08:27
punkass14% done...08:27
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sanxiynaethyr: Actually "apt-get install hal" and dbus/hal is in Debian (Sid).08:28
=== tlhIngan_jIH think it's time to dust off some partitions for Ubuntu
ed0njdub, I see but I want it in my debian :), or maybe I need ubuntu for it. And can I upgrade somehow debian to ubuntu?08:28
jdubficusplanet: oss being the default isn't a bug08:28
jdubficusplanet: using oss emulation is a bit more stable at the moment08:28
=== punkass has a hard drive just sitting there wanting an OS installed on it.
jdubficusplanet: everythign at the kernel level is alsa :)08:28
aethyrsanxiyn: I'm not saying that I couldn't have installed dbus/hal (I use Gentoo).  I'm just saying that I had no reason to yet, so this is my first experience with it.08:28
jdubed0n: upgrading may be messy :)08:29
sanxiynaethyr: Ah, okay. :-)08:29
aethyrI was really waiting for g-v-m to get that stuff working08:29
aethyrI'm still using devfs08:29
sanxiynhal GUI is written in Python. That's kinda cool.08:29
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aethyrso I need to switch to udev/dbus/hal still08:29
ed0njdub, okay one more thing until I switch to it. Will ubuntu have gnome always updated?08:30
ed0nI mean fast like this one08:30
tlhIngan_jIHout of curiousity does Ubuntu include both hotplug and discover? seems like many are having probs running alsa because the oss stuff gets loaded also altho a simple addition to blacklist, discover.conf can resolve the issue easily...any ideas?08:31
jdubed0n: our stable releases wll have the latest gnome as soon as it's released08:31
jdubed0n: our development process will have gnome development stuff as soon as it's released :)08:31
schweebjdub: I recommend you guys get rid of that default disclaimer motd ;) one of the biggest thing that annoys me in debian... first thing I do when I login to a new sys is rm it08:31
punkasstlhIngan_jIH: yeah i have that exact problem08:31
punkassevery debian based distro, alsa has not worked till i blacklisted the oss drivers08:32
tlhIngan_jIHpunkass: easy fix to it...plus a visit to www.alsa-project.org could help with any other probs ;) 08:32
jdubpunkass: that's done for you ;)08:33
tlhIngan_jIHi.e. the modutils/alsa-base thingy ;)08:33
aethyrblacklisted the oss drivers? err... must be a debian thing08:33
tlhIngan_jIHaethyr: nope...think it is a discover thingy rather08:34
punkassjdub: sweet action...08:34
aethyrnever heard of discover08:34
punkassdiscover is a debian thing08:34
jdubwe don't use discover in the distro itself, just minimally in the installer08:34
punkass(i think)08:34
tlhIngan_jIHhehe hotplug's replacement apparently ;)08:34
jdubhotplug also requires some blacklisting stuff08:34
schweebnot replacement08:34
aethyrdidn't hotplug just come out?08:34
jdubthey do similar things08:34
jdubhotplug is regarded as the 'right' solution08:35
schweebhotplug continues to take care of module loading as the system is running08:35
tlhIngan_jIHbut makes no sense to have both i.e. hotplug and discover in...don't you guys agree?08:35
schweebdiscover only runs on boot08:35
sanxiyntlhIngan_jIH: discover is like kudzu.08:35
ed0njdub, can you explain to me or can you point me to a document that tells what ubuntu has more/less than debian?08:35
sanxiyntlhIngan_jIH: discover and hotplug covers different part.08:35
tlhIngan_jIHsanxiyn: ah pardon me ignorance :|08:35
schweebdiscover tries a total hardware module loading solution, hotplug tries to be one for dynamic unload/load08:36
jdubed0n: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship/document_view08:36
tlhIngan_jIHbut most issues are quickly resolved though for the initiatted that is08:36
schweebdiscover is useful int he installer08:36
jdubed0n: also see most of the docs in the ubuntu section08:36
tlhIngan_jIHschweeb: ah08:36
xxorroxxanyone know an app ..command line mp3->wav(audio cd) .. 08:36
ed0njdub, thank you08:36
jdubschweeb: (and also, it was too mcuh work to replace in the installer ;)08:36
xxorroxxxmms++disk_writer plug-in works08:37
jdubschweeb: for this release08:37
schweebjdub: yea, since the discover framework was already there08:37
sanxiynFood for thought: http://www.licquia.org/archives/2004/06/07/why-discover/08:37
tlhIngan_jIHCorrect me if I'm wrong but ubuntu's installer is really the D-I am I not wrong to say so?08:38
schweebmodified a bit08:38
schweebbut yes08:38
tlhIngan_jIHeasy installer to work with i.e. in expert mode that is ;)08:38
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schweebexpert mode really isn't necessary08:40
schweebonly thing I found real useful in it was that I could install direct to sid08:40
ficusplanetWell, I'm getting to sleep.  Good night everyone.  Thanks to all the devs for their fantastic work.08:40
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blafternoon folks08:41
aethyrwhere do those universal packages come from? is that just a sid mirror?08:42
tlhIngan_jIHschweeb: I'm not sure...been hearing of a couple of instances where perfectly working partitions not been detected when installing in"n00b" mode. Tried the D-I out in expert mode at a pal's place, no such "probs" though hmmm08:42
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schweebI've installed numerous times no prob *shrug*08:42
sanxiynaethyr: Sid rebuild, I guess.08:43
tlhIngan_jIHhmmm...I do see a few questions on#debian every other day though08:43
aethyrhm, do they work? I got an error when I ran synaptic after I uncommented them08:43
schweebtlhIngan_jIH: I've always been turned off by the mwilsons that hang out in there, if you know who I'm talkin bout08:43
tlhIngan_jIHschweeb: none here as well from that 1 experience but I did it via expert...so hmmm08:43
tlhIngan_jIHschweeb: hehe ;) ahh he just has his particular brand of twisted humour I think like a few others including Geurin ;)08:44
punkassis debian able to detect when i network cable is pluged/unpluged from it?08:45
sanxiyntlhIngan_jIH: You mean Guerin.08:45
sanxiynpunkass: Yes.08:45
tlhIngan_jIHsanixyn: yeah...he has his moods too but I guess that's understandable08:45
schweebpunkass: it's not really a function of debian08:45
punkasssay i boot with no network cable..then plug one in later will i get a connection08:45
schweebpunkass: it's a function of the kernel08:45
schweebthe kernel has mii support, yes08:45
punkasscuz i was trying with knoppix and it wasnt working08:45
punkassi had to boot with the cable plugged in08:46
sanxiynpunkass: Eh, that's strange.08:46
schweebyou can install ifplugd or another interface manager than acknowledges mii08:46
schweeblaptop-net, etc...08:46
punkassah ok08:46
schweebnow to check if suspend to RAM still works... brb08:47
aethyrcool, I just installed totem-xine and it switches backends automatically (removes totem-gstreamer)08:52
sanxiynaethyr: totem-xine conflicts totem-gstreamer.08:52
punkasswhich one is better?08:53
aethyrI know, I just thought it was neat how it switches backends08:53
aethyrpunkass: well, possibly gstreamer, but I wanted to test dvd playing08:53
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punkassah.. and gsteamer doesnt support dvds?08:54
aethyrI don't think so08:55
=== sanxiyn plugged off the cable and plugged it on, a minute ago. Seems to be working.
aethyrif I wasn't able to watch my dvds that should be arriving tommorow, I'd be sad08:55
schweebs2r doesn't work, apparently08:55
schweebI'll have to fiddle with it a bit08:56
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ruinerhow do you have a cd sent to you?08:56
jdubruiner: shipit.ubuntulinux.org08:58
jdubpunkass: gstreamer does, but we can't ship the right bits to make dvds work due to legal reasons08:59
punkassah can u link to them or something so users can easily install them?08:59
jdubpunkass: that is also difficult issue, legally :)09:00
sanxiynpunkass: I guess "no".09:00
punkassjdub: You need some waiver "if this is not illegal in your country, click here" :)09:00
sanxiyn(It isn't illegal in my country, for example.)09:01
pittineither in mine09:01
pittithe media industry tried to make illegal, but failed :-)09:01
punkassjdub: so there is the perfect work around ;)09:02
Hrdwr_BoBit isn't illegal in my country09:02
Hrdwr_BoBbut it will be soon09:02
Hrdwr_BoBbecause our goverment id full of useless wankers09:02
pittiHrdwr_BoB: is there any country where this is different?09:03
danielsmdz: 2d yes, 3d no09:04
danielsmdz: (r300)09:04
pittiHrdwr_BoB: OTOH, we know from the tabloids that everybody who knows how to rule a country either cuts hair or drives taxis09:04
danielsmdz: yes, 7500 is rv200, r3xx is fully supported with 2d09:04
Hrdwr_BoBwell au decided that us knows best09:04
Hrdwr_BoBso now we're preparing for a VERY LARGE ass reaming09:04
Hrdwr_BoBbecause - DMCA, but without fair use09:04
pittiHrdwr_BoB: fortunately we don't (yet) have this crappy DMCA in the EU yet09:05
mdzs0dak1ng: response from daniels above09:06
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punkasswell its sleep time...nite all09:07
=== aethyr [~aethyr@dyn006612-twr2-student.cpmc.columbia.edu] has joined #ubuntu
aethyrwell, that was fairly painless09:07
pittipunkass: night09:07
aethyrgoodnight punkass09:07
aethyr(always wanted to say that)09:07
aethyrit's really weird09:08
aethyrtotem from the command line will play a dvd09:08
aethyrbut totem from the menu won't09:08
mdzsame totem in both cases?09:09
aethyrI do believe so09:09
aethyrthe menu property says the command is "totem"09:10
aethyrI can't tell what's the problem though, because only when I run it from the terminal do I get any output09:10
aethyrbut that's the working case :P09:10
aethyrnow it works09:10
aethyrmaybe it just needed to cache the key or something09:10
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jdubaethyr: it takes a long while to crack the key, and the gui doesn't provide *excellent* feedback during that process09:11
aethyrmakes sense09:12
aethyrok, well now I can watch 2001 and fall asleep09:12
aethyrthanks for putting all effort into this distribution though, it shows09:13
jdubawesome! thanks :)09:13
ParisiI just read ubutu on the news on slashdot, sounded interesting so i am :)09:14
Parisiso here i am*09:14
ParisiCant type this late, gee :/09:14
aethyrhehe, did it get posted to /. ?09:14
ParisiWhats the default gui on ubu?09:14
aethyroh boy, 2 GNOME stories in 1 day09:14
ParisiYes, just saw it.09:14
aethyrthat'll get their panties in a bunch09:15
ParisiI just started downloading via torrent.09:15
ParisiSO i shall give it a try on my laptop before i head to sleep.09:15
aethyrhow's the torrent? it was pretty quick earlier09:15
aethyrI was getting ~700KB/sec09:15
ParisiFast as hell09:16
Parisi357 kb/s stable here ;009:16
thx1138i've just downloaded ubuntu via torrent ... very fast09:16
aethyrthe only problem is once I install it, the torrents on another partition09:16
aethyrand I don't think bittorrent is installed09:16
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aethyrI should seed it09:16
ParisiWhat sthe default desktop on ubutu? gnome?09:16
nawtygnome 2.8 as far as i recall 09:17
ParisiThank you Thank you09:17
aethyrI think that was a lot of people's reaction ;)09:17
ParisiThats one reason i wanted to ditch Mepis off my second partition, not really a big fan of KDE09:17
ParisiAnd it just seens KDE centric, like most distros these days anyways.09:18
ParisiWith the exception of Fedora09:18
ParisiExcuse my poor english at the moment btw, brb.09:19
ParisiHow stable is this anyways?09:19
ParisiAnyone here actually running it as a desktop OS ?09:20
aethyrI imagine the developers09:20
aethyrI've only been running it for ~2 hours09:20
Parisihaha, how do you like it.09:20
aethyrI haven't heard anyone complain about stability yet09:20
ParisiI wonder how well it will play with my picky hardware.09:20
aethyryup, it's great.  a complete GNOME 2.8 package with udev/dbus/hal09:21
jdubParisi: on all my desktops :)09:21
aethyrit installed all mine, buuuut my hardware is pretty vanilla09:21
aethyrnow that my aureal vortex 2 has been included in alsa, all my hardware is supported09:22
nawtyim not sure how much i like the udev idea :P 09:22
ParisiI wish i could only find one distro that fully takes advantage of my hardware.09:22
aethyrParisi: what do you have that gives you problems?09:22
ParisiI could never find one.09:22
ed0nnawty, udev is good09:22
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nawtyed0n: heh, and its not been moved to the favoruable device manager in 2.6.* ... im not sure how much i like that ide a:P 09:23
ParisiWell, i miss being able to use my "fn" shortcuts on my laptop, among other annoyances.09:23
ParisiWould be nice if i was able to control brightness settings, vga/lcd, etc.09:23
ParisiIts a Sony PIII 800 laptop.09:24
ed0nnawty, it works fine here always did, and makes my /dev clean09:24
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aethyrParisi: ah, a sony laptop, ouch ;)09:25
aethyrI don't even know if windows fully supports them, hehe09:25
ParisiScreen brightness is always set to high, as a result battery drains much faster.09:25
ondrejmm all09:25
aethyr(I mean, if you do a vanilla windows install)09:25
nawtyed0n: from what i understood it had some `issues` with certain hardware09:25
nawtyed0n: although that was from a article. 09:25
nawtyed0n: ill see if i can find it for you 09:26
ondrejI am just replacing unstable on my gf notebook with ubuntu and I have notice you are using gnutls10, I thought that it had some security (design) flaw...09:26
Parisiaethyr ya, its actually implented as software, so it ends up being OS dependent.09:26
ed0nnawty, maybe, but it's worth a try :)09:26
nawtyed0n: of course :) just not on a production server that cant stand the upgrade downtime for every release :) 09:26
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Parisilinux just doesnt seem too laptop friendly, that has been my experience :(09:28
ParisiSeem all distros are focused on desktop hardware, not cool at all.09:28
aethyrwell, I know a fair amount of gnome developers use laptops09:28
aethyrbuuuut I think some laptops are easier than others09:28
ParisiThey should have a special profile or install for laptops on the install as an option.09:29
jdubParisi: we're working on 'totally rad' laptop support for ubuntu :)09:29
ParisiThat would be nice.09:29
jdubParisi: lots of which is in warty, some will have to wait for hoary09:29
ondrejI am missing suspend / hibernate option on my thinkpad (when using ACPI)...09:30
ParisiThats not cool at all.09:30
aethyrsomeone should just buy a lot of laptops for developers ;)09:30
ondrejbut that's more kernel then distro issue09:30
jdubaethyr: we did ;)09:30
aethyrhehe, force them to get it to work09:30
jdubondrej: mmm, my new lappy needs dsdt upgrades and things - icky09:30
ParisiI miss all those features as well.09:30
jdubaethyr: we... did ;)09:30
khalekgetting ati to release the information needed to get suspend working on newer apple laptops would be nice also09:30
aethyrjdub: sounds painfully fun ;)09:30
jdubaethyr: at our two week conference in oxford, we bought a few difficult laptops09:30
jdubaethyr: was lots of fun getting them working right ;)09:31
Parisibut the "fn" keys has to be one of the ones i miss the most.09:31
=== free|afk is now known as free
ParisiI do know its possible, but somebody has take a shot at implementing it on a distro09:31
ParisiThe support is actually there already on the kernel.09:31
nawtythe thing is, that laptop hardware ranges from one vendor to another 09:31
ondrejjdub: i had to wait for few bios updates and disable screen blanking on T40/p, but now it just works...09:31
Parisisomebody = nobody09:32
jdubParisi: open computer > desktop preferences > keyboard shortcuts09:32
=== hypatia [~mary@82-69-60-252.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
nawtyalthough i found that ibm hardware seems to be more standard :) 09:32
ParisiHow would i disable/enable my external monitor for example under linux?09:32
jdubParisi: choose one of them that maps to one of your funny keys, like volume up/down or whatever09:32
nawtyParisi: with great difficulty :) 09:32
jdubParisi: and hit the right button09:32
ParisiExactly my point.09:32
ondrejjdub: I asked before, but nobody responded.  Ubuntu is using libgnutls10, but I thought it suffers from some security design flaw, at least I remember some mail on d-d@l.d.o about it09:32
jdubondrej: not sure, mdz would know more details09:33
nawtyanyway i gots some work to do :) 09:33
nawtyubuntu box to break 09:33
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nawtybbiab 09:33
ondrejmdz: ping?09:33
mdzondrej: here09:33
mdzondrej: can you provide a reference for the issue(s) you're referring to?09:34
ondrejmdz: sure, wait a few secs...09:34
jdubmorning hypatia 09:35
aethyrhm, was there an issue with g-v-m not wanting to eject anything when you press the eject button on the drive?09:35
aethyrI remember reading about it somewhere..09:35
aethyr(I can't manually eject stuff)09:35
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:Parisi] : W
=== topic unset by Parisi on #ubuntu
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:Parisi] : Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ | Bugs: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ | Interview: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8286
Parisitorrent is done, yay :)09:39
nawtyed0n: http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/189309:39
ParisiTime to burn it, brb.09:40
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crbHello, and congrats to the Canonical guys09:40
ondrejmdz: http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2004/07/msg00075.html09:41
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crbAny word on things like Java/Flash etc?09:42
crbWas really impressed with the Project Utopia stuff.09:42
phlaegelhere's a bug for you guys... apps in the computer menu (like synaptic) can't be added to the panel via 'add to panel'09:43
mdzondrej: ah, it's gnutls7 which has problems security-wise I think09:43
mdzondrej: gnutls10 has problems with threads and other normal bugs like thta09:43
aethyranyone know why totem looks worse than xine?09:45
aethyrit's like it has less resolution09:46
aethyreven though I'm using the xine backend09:46
ParisiI honestly prefer mplayer over all of them.09:46
aethyrI have them next to each other and it's obvious09:46
mdzondrej: filed as #127609:46
aethyrI really like xine, but I don't understand why totem is showing the same screen but uglier09:46
Parisixine is just too horrid, and not polished enough.09:46
mdzondrej: looks like it should be easy to free ourselves of gnutls7; only one package in main depends on it09:46
aethyr? xine is polished enough for me (i.e. it plays everthing I throw at it)09:47
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Parisiwell, i meant as far as the interface to interact with the user goes.09:47
jdub^ ubuntu screenshots from linuxbeta09:47
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Parisiand xine is buggy often, at least that has been my experience.09:48
aethyrwhen I take a screenshot, xine shows up with an empty window09:48
aethyrwhich means it's probably using xv whereas totem isn't09:48
aethyrso why isn't totem using xv?09:48
Parisiah ;009:48
ondrejmdz: also see #258975, there is some mail from upstream about libgnucrypt7 and libgnutls10...  (but since 6 month release cycle, it should be smaller problem then having it in sarge)09:48
jdubaethyr: hrm09:49
jdubaethyr: interesting09:49
mdzondrej: added to bugzilla, thanks09:49
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Parisiah, done, time for install.09:49
ParisiIll be back in a little while.09:49
hypatia[belatedly]  morning jdub09:50
ParisiHopefully under Ubuntu, if everything goes ok.09:50
ondrejcould someone with fresh install try netspeed applet?  it is crashing here, but I am not fully upgraded yet, some pieces still missing09:50
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semanticanyone install powerpc version yet09:50
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lucas_is there a simple way to know, from the installed packages, which ones belong to main, restricted or universe ?09:51
semantici just started, everything seems to be going very well09:52
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=== calc [~ccheney@cdm-208-180-235-136.cnro.cox-internet.com] has joined #ubuntu
ondrejlucas_: apt-cache show _package_09:57
nawtywhy is aptitude better than apt-* ? 09:58
jdublucas_: look at them in synaptic09:58
lucas_well, what about doing that for all packages ? :)09:58
mdzsemantic: yes09:59
mdznawty: it is a higher-level tool, it has an interactive interface, it has some additional features like removing packages which are no longer needed09:59
nawtymdz: and it actually works ? :) 10:00
ondrejlucas_: some grepping in /var/lib/apt/lists/ would do that10:00
mdznawty: but more importantly, you can play minesweeper10:00
mdznawty: apt-get doesn't work for you?10:00
nawtymdz: it does, im just concerned when things remove packages for me :) 10:01
mdznawty: oh, that10:01
mdznawty: it is actually fairly smart.  it records whether you explicitly installed a package, or whether it was installed to satisfy a dependency10:01
aethyrmdz: it's all about the scalable nibbles10:01
mdznawty: if it was installed to satisfy a dependency, and you remove the package which had the dependency, it removes the extra packages as well10:01
nawtymdz: okay, ill take your word for it :) 10:01
fabbionelucas_: thanks for the info10:02
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lucas_fabbione: no problem10:02
emkhi all.10:02
fabbionelucas_: i am checking the code now, but i don't think it's a fix i can do myself10:02
fabbionelucas_: probably upstream :(10:02
fabbionelucas_: if you check the 2 output of xvinfo in the non-sarge one you will notice that there is a "Blitter Adapter" 10:03
fabbionelucas_: that is not present in the old one10:03
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fabbionethat's a bunch of new code10:03
fabbioneeverybody that have the Xv problems have the Blitter thingy 10:04
fabbioneanother report just come in10:04
emkI've gotta ask: whats the rationale behind disabling root in ubuntu? is there a way to get the root account back?10:04
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semantici would assume from an administrator account you could sudo passwd root10:05
semanticthe root account has to be there somewhere10:05
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Zombhuhu, fresh distro and the channel is already full10:06
aethyrgood timing10:07
aethyrand a good release10:07
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Zomboh, no KDE10:07
jomohke_emk: "You simply have to load the "Users and Groups" application as a sudoer user, and then click to see "all users", and then select a new password for root user, and then voila, you can use the root user normally."10:07
fabbionelucas_: are you running the x.org driver now?10:07
Zombexpect Kubuntu to appear soon10:07
mdzZomb: s/no/unsupported/10:07
lucas_no, the sarge one10:07
Zombjust as happened with GNoppix10:07
mdzZomb: it's there10:07
fabbionelucas_: i think i have a fix :-)10:07
fabbionelucas_: mind to switch?10:07
Keybukemk: or just 'sudo passwd' in a terminal10:07
lucas_no, just tell me10:07
Zombmdz: I see. Very easy way to get larger distance from problems, do not add it at all.10:08
fabbionelucas_: just switch to the driver.. i need you to test an option in mplayer10:08
emkjomohke_: or i could sudo ... then useradd? right?10:08
calcZomb: hahaha10:08
calcZomb: i doubt it10:08
semanticwhat is the proper pronunciation of ubuntu10:08
mdzsemantic: ooboontoo10:08
calcZomb: would need to find enough people to actually want to do something like that10:08
semanticis it, oh ok10:08
semanticthanks mdz10:09
fabbionelucas_: mplayer -vo xv port=0 or mplayer -vo xv port=110:09
emkmdz: theres a KDE ubunto called kubunto... where?10:09
lucas_ok, just finishing something and I'll try10:09
lucas_2 min10:09
fabbionelucas_: one of them should work fine10:09
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fabbionelucas_: sure10:09
mdzemk: not yet, I don't think. we just released our first preview less than 24 hours ago :-)10:09
=== edd laughs
Zombcalc: indeed. But since KDE is more popular in EU, somebody will step up, sooner or later.10:10
jomohke_emk: Nah, it's already there you just need to change the pass. As Keybuk said "sudo passwd" would be the alternative10:10
emkZomb: I downloaded gnoppix and its pretty good.. never really liked the idea of a heavy KDE on a livecd... my preference would be for flux/open/black box or fvwm on a liveCD.10:10
Zombemk: I don't think KDE is heavy. A full bloated gnome is larger, slower and still less usefull, IMHO.10:10
emkjomohke_: so whats the rationale behind it? In any machine that I've had to admin I like keeping my user account and admin as separate/distinct as possible.10:11
eddC'mon, this is just flame fodder guys! Take a look at the rest of the excellent work Ubuntu's done.10:11
calcthe only complaint people have will be solved once libburn is finished10:11
semantici like the consistency of gnome better10:11
calcsemantic: me too10:11
=== Zomb remebers the days where gnome-0.9 on p100 was faster than 2.x on a p4-1xxx today
mdzZomb: if there are people interested in making a kubuntu, we will do what we can to make it easy for them10:11
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emkZomb: my opinion is that DE's are heavy, _any_ DE compared to a lightweight wm.10:12
Zombemk: don't tell me ;) I use and maintain icewm.10:12
munkeeI like never, ever typing my root password and doing all my maintnance through sudo10:12
emkZomb: heh, my apologies (I wasn't preaching)... you maintain icewm?!? one o' my favorites, its screamingly fast.10:13
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Zombemk: yes. Only few libs increase it's load time much (imlib and gnome stuff used for the menu program. but you can disable gnome menues)10:14
lucas_fabbione: I have to install mplayer first (I'm on ubuntu)10:14
fabbionelucas_: ok. please use the x.org driver10:14
fabbionelucas_: it doesn't matter if you are in ubuntu or debian10:15
lucas_yes but I didn't want to reboot ;)10:15
fabbionesure.. fine for me :-)10:15
lucas_ah no mplayer in ubuntu :(10:16
fabbionejust add the marillat archive.10:16
fabbionemplayer will install10:16
lucas_yup, just did that10:16
=== emk assumes this #channel is so full because of /.
jdubemk: and everywhere else ;)10:16
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu:jdub] : Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ | Lists: http://lists.ubuntu.com/ | Bugs: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ | Interview: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8286
munkeelike debian-devel announces10:17
mdzjdub: zdnet, osnews, slashdot, lwn...anywhere else?10:17
Zombmdz: I imagine you could Packages files for "ubuntu compliant" packages and maintain them among others in Debian's ftp tree10:17
jdubmdz: distrowatch, linuxbeta, yada yada10:17
jdubmdz: some i don't know about10:18
emkjdub: i see... grass-roots-online-press-coverage in action eh?10:18
lucas_+ my news on linuxfr.org10:18
mdzZomb: if I understand you correctly, that is what universe will become10:18
jdubja :)10:18
jdublucas_: yay :)10:18
calchmm can you request specific types of cd's on the site?10:18
jomohke_I found this place from one of jdubs signatures a while ago (I think). I signed up for the announcements mailing list and forgot about it, then got that announcement recently.10:19
jvws0dak1ng, mdz: Invision is non-free, you don't want that :)10:19
mdzjvw: what is Invision?10:19
calcwell web forum/bbs thing10:20
jdubjomohke_: heh ;)10:20
jdubjomohke_: those thingies work well ;)10:20
jvwmdz: as calc says, http://www.design2i.com/debian/ is an example10:20
jomohke_They certainly do.10:21
jomohke_Planning to do another gnome.conf.au next year, jdub?10:21
jdubjomohke_: TOTALLY10:21
jdubit's going to rock the casbah10:21
jvwmdz: it's even not distributable by non-free, too10:21
jdubwe're goign to have tshirts and everything10:21
jomohke_Just like this years did.10:21
mdzoh, forum software10:21
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calcphpBB is just as nice and free10:22
=== emk 's looking at the interview
emkseems ubuntu combines a log from sarge _and_ sid... right?10:22
thx1138I've just installed Ubuntu : very nice work guys !10:22
jdubemk: it's based solely on sid10:22
lucas_fabbione: port={0,1} doesnt change anything10:22
semantici don't really like any of the available LAF for phpBB, so unless you want to skin it i would look elswhere10:22
fabbionelucas_: ok just a second...10:23
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jdubcalc: ideally we'd like something that interfaced to our mailing lists10:23
jdubcalc: so if you know anything that does nntp backend...10:23
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calcoh not sure, i was just mentioning phpBB was free as opposed to invisionboard10:24
mdzcalc: types of CDs, as in architecture?10:24
calcit seems you can only order by number not arch, but thats fine since most systems are i38610:25
mdzwe may only be pressing i386, not sure10:25
lucas_#ubuntu is still mode +s, is it normal ?10:26
calci ordered some, i think i will distribute them at the lug if i don't get hired tomorrow (would be moving in that case)10:26
ondrejis there some reason from gpdf being in universe?10:26
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Zombondrej: why? is it no longer in sync with xpdf?10:26
lucas_ondrej: real men use gv or xpdf ;)10:26
Zomblucas_: gpdf is/was xpdf with gtk gui10:27
jdubondrej: we decided to ship xpdf for more thorough pdf support, but didn't put gpdf in supported10:27
aethyrisn't gpdf official gnome 2.8?10:27
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lucas_I'm not sure they are still in synch10:27
jdubondrej: we'll most likely ship it by default Hoary10:27
jdubthe latest gpdf include xpdf 3 code10:27
jdubbut uses pango rendering10:27
jdubso there are still a few interesting bugs10:27
jdubnot huge10:27
ondrejjdub: gpdf is part of gnome 2.8...  so I was interested why it's not in main...10:28
jdubondrej: yeah, that's why :)10:28
lucas_everythink in main is on the CD, right ?10:29
jdublucas_: no, everything in the desktop and ship seeds10:29
jdublucas_: everything in main is all of supported back down to base10:29
jdublucas_: too big for one cd :)10:29
lucas_from looking at apt-cache {show,showpkg}, how can I determine whether a package is shipped on the CD ?10:30
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jdublucas_: you can't :)10:32
fabbionelucas_: can you try to modify your X config adding: Screen 0 right below Driver "nv"10:32
Zomblucas_: apt-get --print-uris --reinstall install 10:32
lucas_Zomb: I don't have an up to date CD anymore :)10:33
lucas_fabbione, yes10:33
jdublucas_: if you look at the desktop seed and ship seed in the wiki, that will help10:34
jdublucas_: it'll list the main top-level packages10:34
lucas_mmh, is there a list of all packages which are on the CD somewhere ?10:34
lucas_basically, I'd like to see how suitable it is to give ubuntu to students who don't have an internet connection, and which additional packages they will need.10:35
lucas_I'll be back in ~ 10 sec10:35
mdzfabbione: can you remove the +s on the channel?10:36
JADuncanYou guys have an entry on Wikipedia now, you know.10:36
mdzfabbione: that hides it from the channel list, right?10:36
fabbionemdz: no. i am not an op here10:36
fabbionemdz: yes that's correct10:36
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mdzfabbione: no one is; how do we fix it?10:36
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fabbionemdz: who registered the channel...10:36
fabbionemdz: i don't remember who was10:37
fabbionemdz: probably Keybuk 10:37
fabbioneor jdub10:37
mdzJADuncan: the word, and the wikipedia entry, predate the distribution :-)10:37
Keybuklamont I think10:37
lucas_fabbione, same as before10:37
mdzlamont: is sleeping, bah10:37
mdzsleep when you're dead10:37
fabbionelucas_: ok..10:37
fabbionelucas_: can you reproduce the bug with other players?10:37
jdublucas_: yeah, so, see BaseSeed, DesktopSeed and ShipSeed for the main top-level packages included on the CD10:37
lucas_fabbione, can you define other players ?10:38
JADuncanit is under "Ubuntu Linux"10:38
fabbionelucas_: totem?10:38
JADuncanso I am slightly dubious of that claim ;)10:38
lucas_jdub, but that's only the main top level packages, so even apt-rdepends won't give me all of them10:38
fabbionelucas_: xine?10:39
jdublucas_: we have a special tool that lists all of these, i'll check if we've put the results up10:39
Keybukmdz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Linux10:39
jdubmdz: do we have germinate output on one of the public webservers?10:39
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mdzJADuncan: oh, well neat10:39
mdzJADuncan: it didn't find it when I searched for 'ubuntu'10:40
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ParisiJust installed ubuntu on my Sony VAIO laptop, so far so good :)10:40
[Fur] Lord-Stormhow often are the CD's shiped out?10:41
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lucas_jdub, actually grepping in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/4.10/preview/warty-i386.list will do the job10:43
JADuncanmdz:  fair enough, I only just wrote it...10:43
jdublucas_: haha, d'oh, good point :-) :-)10:45
Lord-Stormhas ubuntu got the NTFS kernal bug?(like MDK 10)10:49
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jdubLord-Storm: no, we ship
jdubhey alextreme 10:50
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alextremegmorning all10:51
emkdurn flaky LAN connection!10:51
alextremejdub: how's the preview-release been? gotten quite busy in here :)10:51
jdubalextreme: totally sweet10:51
jdubalextreme: lots of love :)10:51
alextremegreat :)10:52
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fabbionelucas_: did you reproduce the problem?10:53
emkhow did they get curses screenshots? seems the entire text-based install has been screen captured.10:53
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Lord-Stormjdub: ahh good.... 10:54
lucas_totem fails because my sound card isn't configured10:54
lucas_xine works, but how an I check it uses XV ?10:54
HrdwrBoBwith xine?10:54
HrdwrBoBcheck the output10:54
HrdwrBoBtotem you can configure by configuring gstreamer10:54
lucas_I'm using the xine gui10:55
lucas_not much output10:55
lucas_there's a non-gui for xine ?10:55
HrdwrBoBstart it from a terminal and it should show you some things?10:56
HrdwrBoBI think there's also some command line options10:56
lucas_not much10:56
fabbionelucas_: check the man page.. iirc there is an option to force Xv10:56
lucas_just the copyright10:56
HrdwrBoBxine --verbose=310:57
lucas_xine works with -V xv10:57
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HcEnot much trafic on the torrent today10:58
HcEI shut down my seed10:58
emkwhats the package mgt of ubuntu like... can I just use apt-get (i.e. do exactly as i would on my Sarge Debian system)?10:58
fabbionelucas_: ok.. we identified 2 bugs :-)))10:59
fabbionelucas_: the driver needs to be update to work with cards and mplayer doesn't select the proper viewport10:59
fabbionelucas_: try to use mplayer -vo xv port=5310:59
HcEor put it in your .mplayer/config ?11:00
lucas_fabbione, it still doesn't work11:00
fabbioneHcE: right now we are debugging a problem :-)11:00
fabbionelucas_: check the port numbers with xvinfo :-)11:00
fabbionelucas_: one of them has to work11:00
=== HcE reads backlog ;)
JADuncanemk: the screenshots have been done in VMWare11:00
fabbionelucas_: given that mplayer works with that option11:01
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emkJADuncan: I see... that explains it... thought it was an fb thing or something.11:01
lucas_it doesn't, actually. I just notice :11:01
lucas_Playing port=54.11:02
lucas_File not found: 'port=54'11:02
lucas_Failed to open port=5411:02
ondrejnetspeed applet is crashing :-(11:02
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xxorroxxright click , and select11:03
xxorroxx'add to panel'11:03
lucas_actually the syntax is -vo xv:port=number11:03
xxorroxxthey converted it , and its way better11:03
lucas_and with port=54 it works11:03
fabbionelucas_: right. i was re-reading the man page right now11:03
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lucas_it doesn't work with port=5311:04
Lord-StormNov will be a good month for me... new AMD64 Micro Gigabyte computer ubuntu on cd and maybe Java SDK shiped out to me...11:04
fabbionelucas_: try with 0,1 first11:04
fabbionelucas_: with 2 selection usually you have 2 viewports11:04
lucas_port=0 it doesnt11:04
xxorroxxlord-storm: you can download java sdk and ubuntu11:04
lucas_port=1: Xv: Invalid port parameter, overriding with port 011:05
lucas_so it doesn't11:05
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fabbionehumpf 11:05
Lord-StormIm on what you would call a leech network..... routers overloaded...11:06
fabbionelucas_: port base value is not the one we are looking for...11:07
Lord-StormI had to dl mdk 6 times to get a version that wasnt corupt11:07
fabbionelucas_: i am checking something...11:07
andredIt seams like I ran into the same problem as "rsevenic at netscape.net" posted about on the mailing-list, namely that Ubuntu stalls on 'bsdutils' during installation. It fails to read it from the CD.11:07
andredI have verified the md5sum on the .iso and it was correct.11:07
lucas_what about the md5sum of the CD you burnt ?11:08
andredlucas_: I haven't tried that. How do I check that?11:08
lucas_md5sum /dev/cdrom might work, depending on your CD burner's options11:09
lucas_sbody else might have a more reliable solution11:09
andredOk, just on my cd device. I'll check.11:09
lucas_fabbione: I have to go, privmsg me if you want me to test something when I come back11:10
xxorroxxcan you build kde from source ?11:10
xxorroxxor are you guys going to fix the package system11:10
=== MacPlusG3 shakes head at ext3 as default FS
MithrandirHcE: unnskyld is seeding, iirc.11:11
xxorroxxMacPlusG3: whats wrong with ext3 11:12
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MacPlusG3xxorroxx: it's slow and doesn't scale11:12
fabbionelucas_: thanks.. i can't reproduce the crap here.. even with a xvinfo that is as twice as longer as your11:12
matt_hrmm anyone here?11:12
Mithrandirlamont: around now.11:12
xxorroxxMacPlusG3: whats faster11:12
HcEMithrandir: ok, then there is no point in me doing that too on Trafoen?11:12
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MacPlusG3xxorroxx: XFS, reiser11:12
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: XFS is my preferred11:12
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xxorroxxMacPlusG3: by how much11:12
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: (and not just 'cause i work for SGI)11:13
andredDefinately something wrong with the CD...although it's quite weird that two people can get broken CD on exactly the same package.11:13
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xxorroxxMacPlusG3: sgi has offices in .au ?11:13
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: quite significantly in some situations. large files and many files in a directory esp11:13
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: yes - there's the Australian Software Group down here in melbourne11:13
MithrandirHcE: actually, it's dessverre11:14
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HcEMithrandir: *fnis*11:14
matt_anyone else having problems with fonts looking bad? or is it just me11:14
xxorroxxMacPlusG3: what are the average % .. how much faster is XFS11:14
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MacPlusG3xxorroxx: depends what you're doing. but, for example, an mkfs takes about 2 seconds with XFS... i shudder to think what ext3 takes on a few hundred gigs11:15
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: on large directories - ext3 does a linear search. XFS is O(log n)11:16
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: ext3 can run out of inodes. XFS allocates them dynamically11:16
xxorroxxMacPlusG3: nice11:16
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: XFS *loves* B+Trees. for free space, for directories.11:17
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: it's extents based, not block number based. so big files are really efficient11:17
xxorroxxMacPlusG3: how much of a problem is it to convert ext3->XFS11:17
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: use tar11:17
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: or some partition resizing and copying (if you can)11:17
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MacPlusG3xxorroxx: there's a convertfs program that's meant to automate some stuff11:18
xxorroxxMacPlusG3: would that filesystem have any advantage as far as multimedia/games ?11:18
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: for multimedia, yes. XFS is used a lot in big media housess11:19
janmuhmm... is there an easy way to 'upgrade' debian to ubuntu?11:19
xxorroxxjanm: doubtful11:19
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: a lot are using CXFS these days (clustered version - commercial product)11:19
xxorroxxMacPlusG3: I mean just for dealing with alot of mp3's , wav's , games .. etc11:20
janmxxorroxx: thanks11:21
sanxiynjanm: No.11:21
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sanxiynjanm: You can try it, if you are brave.11:21
jdubjanm: it is not recommended at this point :)11:21
matthewjscan someone help me set up my 802.11g card11:22
MacPlusG3matthewjs: what card?11:22
MithrandirHcE: hm, seems like the torrents are gone now.11:22
MithrandirMacPlusG3: you're FUD-ing11:22
janmjdub: now there's the fun :)11:22
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: probably be a little faster. most likely noticable11:22
MacPlusG3xxorroxx: but no gaurentees11:22
matthewjsMacPlusG3, 2200, i have it working right now, problem is when i start up my laptop it does not work i have to set it up each time11:22
MacPlusG3Mithrandir: explain?11:22
Mdis the ISO tracker dead?11:22
MithrandirMacPlusG3:                    dir_index11:23
Mithrandir                          Use  hashed  b-trees  to  speed  up lookups in large11:23
Mithrandir                          directories.11:23
Mithrandirfrom tune2fs11:23
xxorroxxanyone figured out how to install kde packages yet ?11:23
MacPlusG3Mithrandir: new extension - not as fast as doing it natively11:23
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MithrandirMacPlusG3: again, FUD.  It's native and it's not a "new extension".11:24
MacPlusG3Mithrandir: ext[23]  also doesn't do: extents, delayed allocation, have a repacker11:24
Mithrandirit's been there since a long time11:24
sanxiynjanm: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.511776198311:24
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hypatiamatthewjs: Have a look at Computer menu -> System configuration -> Networking, if you select "Properties" of any card, you can click "Activate when computer starts"11:26
janmsanxiyn: cool. thanks.11:26
alextremedo we already have a .ogg of mark pronouncing ubuntu? :)11:27
hypatiamatthewjs: alternatively, you can put "auto" next to the right card in /etc/network/interfaces, I think that's what the GUI does anyway11:27
MacPlusG3Mithrandir: yes... but is not default11:27
hypatiaIs Mark a native speaker?11:27
hypatiaOf Zulu I mean.11:27
MacPlusG3matthewjs: what are you having to do to set it up?11:27
matthewjsMacPlusG3, bring down eth0, bring up eth1 then run dhcp on eth111:28
xxorroxxwhat the hell11:28
xxorroxxit can change resolution on-the-fly11:28
xxorroxxlike windows 11:28
jdubhypatia: no11:29
MacPlusG3matthewjs: set eth0 to not come up automatically, set eth1 to. (my guess is via the networking setup tool thingy)11:29
Mithrandirxxorroxx: modern X does that just fine, run xrandr from the command line to play with it.  Or use the GUI thingy.11:29
Mdwho manages the bittorrent tracker? it's dead11:30
Mithrandirthe torrents are gone, it seems..11:30
=== sanxiyn is using gnome-randr-applet.
sanxiynTo be honest, I feel no need to change resolution on-the-fly.11:32
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lonewolffmorning all11:34
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lypanovdaniels: nice :)11:34
=== lypanov hopes the dang bittorrent will start :P
Mithrandirwe're working on fixing the bittorrent tracker.11:35
lypanovexcellent :)11:35
xxorroxxsanxiyn: having to restart x to change the resoltion is cool 0_o .. not11:35
lonewolffdoes ubuntu have an rsync miror?11:35
Mithrandirlonewolff: yes, but please don't use it unless you are going to set up a full mirror yourself.11:36
Mithrandiror you can use a mirror11:37
lonewolffMithrandir: that is why i want it, i wish to add it to my mirror cluster which is goin glive next week, with just about every linux distro i could find11:37
Mithrandirlonewolff: there are rsync URL on the URL I mentioned above.11:37
lonewolffMithrandir: thankyou i shalll add that to my nightly rsync11:38
Mdlonewolff: if you can wait for the tracker to be fixed, probably it will be faster anyway for the first sync11:38
lypanovno cdimage mirrors?11:38
lonewolffis cdimage.ubuntu.com in the uk?11:39
Mithrandirlonewolff: yes11:39
lonewolffon what network backbone?11:40
lypanovMithrandir: prefered to start download with this or to wait for bt tracker to come up again?11:40
Mithrandirlypanov: bittorrent can continue a partial download, so if you're impatient, just download and then switch to bittorrent once that's back-11:41
HcEMithrandir: torrents are gone?11:41
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MithrandirHcE: ATM, yes.  thom is looking into it11:42
HcEdon't follow you11:42
matthewjsok using the gnome network gui thing crashed and it messed up my wnetworking even more heh11:42
matthewjsi had to restart11:42
MithrandirHcE: the torrent tracker is down for some reason.  We're working on fixing it. :)11:43
HcEah, ok11:43
hypatiamatthewjs: yeah it seems rather crashy for me too, I think there's a bug filed11:43
matthewjshypatia, heh.11:43
matthewjshypatia, how else can i set it up then?11:43
HcEMithrandir: I stoped seeding anyway, since dessverre is seeding, and we use the same uplink :)11:43
matthewjshypatia, first time using a debian distro11:44
hypatiamatthewjs: you want to make a few changes to your /etc/network/interfaces file then11:44
hypatiamatthewjs: firstly, to stop eth0 coming up automatically, you want to comment out any line saying "auto eth0"11:44
hypatiamatthewjs: to get eth1 to come up automatically, you want to add an "auto eth1" line11:45
hypatiaTo get eth1 to use dhcp, have a line like this:11:45
hypatia"iface eth1 inet dhcp"11:45
hypatialet me know if there already is an "iface eth1" line.11:45
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hypatiaHere's my eth1 setup (wireless as well):11:46
hypatiaiface eth1 inet dhcp11:46
hypatianame Wireless LAN card11:46
hypatiawireless_essid earthsea11:46
matthewjshypatia, there isnt, there is alot of junk in there from the gnome network gui thing11:46
matthewjsthats it?11:46
matthewjsmine has like 15 lines of stuff11:47
hypatiamatthewjs: I'll paste you the entire file in /query11:47
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olafuraWill you have a gtk-fied and gtk 2.4 fileselector openoffice in the first release?11:50
Mithrandirolafura: I doubt it11:50
thomtorrents are back up11:51
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olafuraI think fedora core 3 will have it11:51
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Mithrandirthom: thanks.  You rock, as usual11:54
rburtonjust reinstalled my work desktop with the final preview ISO11:55
rburtonapart from apt hanging for 20 seconds before starting a download11:55
thomrburton: yay :-)11:55
azeemrburton: sudo might timeout on gethostbyname11:55
ParisiWhat would be the pass for sudo?11:56
rburtonParisi: your password11:56
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azeemoh, so ubuntu runs without NOPASSWD?11:56
Parisihmmm, i didnt even spificy one for it.11:56
=== Mithrandir sees bittorrent pick up the traffic and stabilizing at around 2Mbit.
rburtonParisi: when you created the first user you entered a password. this is your password and the password sudo asks for11:57
Livewirehi, whats ubuntu based on Sarge? presumably it uses APT GET? hows the hardware dtection? -ive got awkward hardware11:58
lifelessits based on sid.11:58
MithrandirLivewire: no, it's not based on sarge, it's based on a sid snapshot.11:58
MithrandirLivewire: it uses apt-get,yes.11:58
Parisirburton, rburton how strange, still no luck.11:58
lifelessas for hardware, pretty decent... but there is one way to find out :)11:58
ParisiI know what my personak pass for my user account is, just wont work for sudo.11:58
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Livewirethanks Mith and lifeless11:58
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matthewjshypatia, that worked thanks :011:59
Livewireim using a SATA drive, does the default kernel have sata support?11:59
thomLivewire: default kernel is with everything turned on, so yes11:59
ParisiI need my sleep anyways.11:59
MithrandirLivewire: if you have hardware that doesn't work and you know how to get it working (what drivers and such), we are interested in getting that information.12:00
Livewireive got a SATA drive, Broadcom based wireless card, Terratec sound card and various USB devices (like a camera)12:01
thombroadcom wireless is the sticky one.12:01
=== azeem crashes (one of) his GNU/Hurd partition in favor of ubuntu. It better be good.
MithrandirLivewire: SATA should work fine, broadcom wlan card is blatantly non-free and will only work with ndiswrapper (see http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WirelessFirmware )12:01
thomazeem: good choice. now you can have >2GB partitions ;-)12:02
rburtonhm, stracing apt-get shows it spinning on gettimeofday()12:02
Livewireim about to sell that Broadcome card .. ive tried NDISwrapper in Mandrake 10 and Knoppix 3.6 NDIS GUI. I had a nightmare with a free driverloader trial in Mandrake also12:02
MithrandirLivewire: USB should work fine, sound card is well supported, to the best of my knowledge.12:02
azeemthom: I had that before12:02
Livewireyeah its Envy24, Ubuntu should see it12:03
Livewirefinal question: whats the preview release, final testing and feeddback before the real public release?12:04
thomLivewire: yep12:04
rburtonaha, apt is looping on a select(13,...) which is timing out12:04
thomfull release is one month away12:04
=== rburton wonders what 13 is
Livewirethom: ok thanks12:04
matthewjscan you upgrade from preview to final, or do you have to do a full reinstall?12:05
Kinnisonrburton: ls -l /proc/`pidof apt-get`/fd/1312:05
Mithrandirmatthewjs: upgrades will be supported.12:05
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Livewire:O its got Gnome 2.8 .. im still on 2.4 :S12:06
trukuloMithrandir, does it have a resize partition tool on install ?12:06
Mithrandirtrukulo: I don't remember.12:06
trukuloumm, i mean, parted ? nparted ?12:07
rburtonKinnison: a pipe to somewhere :)12:07
trukuloor we only have cfdisk as usual?12:07
Kinnisonrburton: Hmm :-)12:07
Kinnisonrburton: probably one of the method helpers?12:07
Mithrandirtrukulo: nope, it doesn't use cfdisk, we're using a slightly modified debian-installer, which doesn't use cfdisk any more.12:07
MithrandirLivewire: we released with 2.8 two hours after it was released. ;)12:07
rburtonKinnison: yea, i guess its the http method12:08
Kinnisonrburton: and that is doing... ?12:08
trukuloMithrandir, and how do you manage partitions?12:08
matthewjsLivewire, thats the only reason i installed this was for gnome 2.8 to try it out, now i like this distro and im going to keep it12:08
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Livewirenice .. ive never used a hard drive installed Debian system ... so Ubuntu looks interesting12:08
crbAm I expecting to find Java/Flash etc in the 'restricted' repository?12:08
Livewirei also prefer GNOME to KDE12:09
trukuloyou know, multiple SO installed12:09
Mithrandirtrukulo: debian-installer uses cdebconf, so it has a custom program called partman.12:09
trukuloah, partman12:09
rburtonKinnison: they are both hanging on a select ;)12:09
Kinnisonrburton: both on a pipe?12:09
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rburtonKinnison: they both say select(4, ...), but i didn't log it. can i manually call the helpers?12:10
Kinnisoncheck /proc/<pidof the helper>/fd/412:12
Kinnisonsee what that is12:12
rburtonthat is what was odd, it didn't exist12:12
=== rburton is confused
KinnisonI'd try to help more; but I'm fighting to get gcc to ./configure on a solaris box12:13
rburtonhm, ephy takes an age to hit the security.ubuntu.com url too12:14
trukuloMithrandir, yes, it seems there's a resizing tool in partman12:14
rburtonodd. "wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/" is taking 20 seconds after the http command was send for anything to come back12:16
seb128that's damn slow here too12:18
rburtonok, maybe its just loaded12:19
rburtononce a connection is made, its fast12:19
rburtonhas apache hit a max clients limit?12:19
=== lypanov wonders if the bt is back
Mithrandirlypanov: it is12:19
lypanovyay :)12:19
seb128rburton: dunno, but my apt is "[Waiting for headers] "12:20
seb128for like a minute12:20
Mithrandirlypanov: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/warty-i386.iso.torrent (change i386 to something else if you're on some other arch)12:20
azeemuhm, is there a way to specify an http proxy?12:20
Livewireno i586/i686 yet, is that a future port?12:20
Mithrandirhttp_proxy=$proxy 12:20
seb128azeem: computer menu -> desktop preferences12:20
azeemseb128: I mean during base-config12:21
MithrandirLivewire: that's a possibility, yes.12:21
MithrandirLivewire: in most cases, optimizing everything for i686 doesn't gain you much12:21
azeemit asked me whether I want to install packages over the internet and then went ahed. I ^C'd, and then all the packages just got installed from hard disk it seems12:21
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azeemhmm, disk full12:25
azeemnot installing grub seems to confuse grub postinst and subsequently ubuntu-artwork12:32
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Livewirewhat other WM does Ub come with? XFCE? Enlightenment? .. i assume those are pretty to add if they arent there 12:33
Mithrandirazeem: please file bugs12:33
KinnisonLivewire: I imagine they're all in universe12:33
sanxiynLivewire: XFCE and Enlightenment is in Debian, so it will be in universe.12:33
=== TongMaster [~TongMaste@dsl-202-52-33-118.nsw.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu
Livewiresorry what is universe?12:34
=== sanxiyn uses XFCE/Debian on one of his lesser computer, actually.
jordiLivewire: like "main", but another section with the rest of Debian in it.12:34
KinnisonLivewire: universe is all the rest of the debian packages built against ubuntu IIRC12:34
sanxiynLivewire: Ubuntu has 3 sections. main, restricted, universe.12:34
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MithrandirLivewire: note that universe is not supported, security-wise or otherwise.12:35
sanxiynLivewire: Well, read this: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view12:35
Livewireyeah i see now12:35
Livewireits just like debian, stable, unstable, testing12:35
sanxiynLivewire: Nope.12:35
Livewirecrap i'll read the doc12:36
jordiit's just like debian "main" "contrib" "non-free"12:36
jordidebian stable unstable testing maps to warty hoary perky etc in Ubuntu12:36
beezlyjust tried a warty preview install. it's great :) well done folks12:37
Mithrandirjordi: debian woody, sarge, etch maps to warty, hoary, perky.12:37
sanxiynI believe Enlightenment 17 will be very good... Should try it someday.12:37
jordiMithrandir: well yeah. whatever :)12:38
TongMasternice work Ubuntu people. I just upgraded this TiBook and *everything* just works, including DRI. Brilliant.12:38
jdubjordi: your new nick rocks12:38
thomTongMaster/beezly: cool, thanks12:38
thomsanxiyn: well, should it ever get released ;-)12:38
TongMasterthom, imagine, DRI working *OUT OF THE BOX* on a TiBook, FFS. it's a miracle :)12:38
sanxiynthom: I think EFL is released... eh, pre-released?12:38
sanxiynthom: I read some docs on Enlightenment Foundation Library and it made a lot of sense.12:39
TongMasterthom, released? e17? I was using two years ago, it was pretty good but I think it's been re-written twice since then.12:39
thomsanxiyn: yeah, the libraries look pretty cool, although i think with the new X stuff a lot they do becomes less interesting12:40
thomTongMaster: nod12:40
TongMasterIt's a real moving target.12:40
thomTongMaster: i was excited when i was using EFM ;-)12:40
TongMasterheh, EFM was swoit.12:40
TongMasterI stopped using E17 because it was *too* much of a moving target.12:40
rburtoncursed NEC gave this dvd drive a label of "_NEC blaa blaa"12:42
rburtonbloody underscore 12:42
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thomrburton: ooh, lovely12:42
jdubrburton: haha12:42
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=== amx109 is now known as amran
rburtoni'll write up my install experience over lunch12:42
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rburtonhi robster12:43
robsterhey ross12:43
sanxiynTheir canvas library, Evas, claims to run on X11, DirectFB, /dev/fb* directly, OpenGL, QTopia... Also theming part looked like Winamp skin/script done right. Well, let's see when e17 will be released. :(12:43
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TongMasteralthough, thom, I did have a little sook about the choice 2nd+3rd buttons ;)12:44
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thomTongMaster: everyone and there dog uses different ones12:45
thomwe picked the ones that seemed to piss everyone off the least12:45
jordijdub: are you serious about that?12:46
TongMasteryeah, they are a good choice but I still had to have a token sook after such an easy install.12:46
jdubtotally man12:46
khalekdaniels used to work for NEC blame him :)12:46
=== az[a] zel_ is now known as az[a] zel
LivewireCould i boot 3 OSs from one drive? 2 linux distros, one of them Ubuntu and M$ windows ? ive only ever booted 2 at once12:48
jordijdub: RAD!12:48
jordiso Oskuro was that bad?12:48
thomLivewire: sure12:48
rburtonLivewire: you can boot as many as you want, you've just got to handle the bootloader12:48
Livewireive just recieved a free copy of SuSE 9.1 with all the manuals, i'd be stupid not to use it12:48
trukulojordi, well, if you play fanhunter, oskuro rocks for the villain12:48
jordiwtf is fanhunter?12:48
Livewirebut ubuntu sounds too good not to try12:48
trukulojordi, rpg12:49
thomLivewire: the ubuntu installer will work out what else you have on the disk available and set that up. dunno about any other distros (well, debian does the same)12:49
az[a] zelespecially since it supports AMD6412:49
az[a] zelI'm yet to see a good distro for AMD6412:49
jorditrukulo: and there's a character called oskuro?12:49
=== az[a] zel is downloading ubuntu-amd64 via bittorrent as we speak
Mithrandiraz[a] zel: I'm _very_ interested in any amd64 specific problems you stumble over.12:50
trukulojordi, no, there are characters called Xtremo, ridli, constantine...12:50
amranhello ppl. im runnin debian/unstable and i want to try ubuntu. can i just change my /etc/apt/sources.list and dist-upgrade my way to ubuntu?12:50
az[a] zelMithrandir, yup12:50
trukulojordi, where r u from?12:51
Mithrandiramran: you'll probably hit some rough edges that way, but it should work.12:51
amranits the rough edges that worry me the most12:51
Mithrandiramran: pin warty higher > 1000 and it'll downgrade anything which is newer in unstable.12:51
jorditrukulo: Valncia12:52
rburtonamran: if you worry about rough edges, reinstall.  this is why i keep /home on a separate partition :)12:52
amranrburton:  or rsync'd to another partition ;)12:52
danielskhalek: not my fault, blame thombot12:52
trukulojordi, so, it's a spanish role playing game, by cels pinyols, one of the villains is curro jimenez, it's a parody12:52
trukulojordi, forget it, i'm OT12:53
sanxiyn(or even keep /home under Version Control!)12:53
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jdubhi robster 12:53
robsterjdub: heyas12:53
amransanxiyn:  i wish i knew how to12:54
joh_I really like this thing :) grats!12:54
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sanxiynamran: cd $HOME; cvs import /var/cvs x y z (etc.)12:55
amransanxiyn:  your crazy12:55
sanxiynOne of my friend work at Yahoo. I heard that Yahoo keeps there /etc in CVS.12:55
amranif i was gonna version control my home dir, id prob use subversion not cvs12:56
sanxiynThat works too. :-)12:56
Kinnisongiven how much I move stuff around; I'd probably use arch12:57
MithrandirKinnison: arch can't check out subtrees, though, so you would have to use configs or something12:57
robstersanxiyn: thats quite common when you have multiple admins, RCS would be more apropriate though probably12:57
lifelessI'd use arch regardless... but i'm biased12:57
sanxiynThis is an interesting read: http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/cvshome.html12:57
sanxiyn(CVS $HOME, or keeping your life in CVS.)12:57
MacPlusG3RCS/CVS with permissions with /etc can be fun12:58
KinnisonMithrandir: I like the idea of tla build-config configs/tilde-dsilvers12:58
MacPlusG3where 'fun' means pains in the behind12:58
robsterMithrandir: that doesnt worry daniel, he has a "--" on his keyboard12:58
=== Kinnison tickles robster
Mithrandirrobster: tab completion.12:58
=== Kinnison makes a mental note to really really tickle robster
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rburtonseb128: how about turning on the gnome/xrdb magic in ubuntu?01:00
rburton(speaking of which, its semi-broke in testing)01:00
jdubrburton: ooh, totally01:00
rburtonjdub: i want it on in sarge too but nobody else agrees01:00
sanxiynAlso this: http://svn.kitenet.net/trunk/01:00
sanxiynMind-boggling: he has three $HOME modules, namely home-base, home-full, home-plus. ;;;01:00
jsubl2so what is folks doing for moz plugins.  I like to watch news videos.  I usually use mplayer01:00
jdubrburton: i fully endorse this suggestion </quimby>01:01
sanxiynjsan: mozilla-mplayer works. mozilla-bonobo + totem also works, but is unstable.01:01
sanxiynit was to jsubl2.01:01
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seb128rburton: yeah. when/where did you talk about this for sarge ?01:02
jsubl2sanxiyn, did you apt-get it.  01:02
rburtonseb128: on d-g-g iirc, or maybe just the irc channel01:02
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sanxiynjsubl2: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/gnome/mozilla-bonobo01:02
az[a] zeldamn I'm getting a nice rate off of bittorrent :) must be a few AMD64 users out there01:03
az[a] zelI also own an ibook, maybe I should download the ppc version...01:03
sanxiynEh, what really is the problem with getting mplayer in Debian?01:03
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thoma fair number of high bandwidth machines have BT running on all three isos :-)01:04
chronicevenin all01:04
sanxiynhttp://packages.debian.org/unstable/misc/mozilla-mplayer is already officialy in Debian. :(01:04
az[a] zel17 seeds, 4 peers01:07
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az[a] zelso you guys are providing these machines?01:07
jsubl2sanxiyn, ok thanks.  so it is okay to get those few little things from debian unstable01:07
az[a] zel(some of them) ?01:07
sanxiynjsubl2: I don't know.01:07
thomaz[a] zel: myself, mithrandir are certainly01:07
Ass_on_FireJust installed ubuntu and need some help with installing the nvidia driver. Anyone know how?01:08
sanxiynjsubl2: I *think* mplayer and mozilla-mplayer may be okay. I am not very sure about mozilla-bonobo, considering Ubuntu is GNOME 2.8.01:08
az[a] zelcool.. I only have 512/128 adsl, so my upload speed is sucks, heh01:08
danielsi'm providing a seed on 100MBit in the US01:08
rburtonAss_on_Fire: the kernel module is already installed, install nvidia-glx and then change "nv" to "nvidia" in XF86Config01:08
daniels(well, it has a 100MBit link, and it's on multiple gigabit links that never even blink)01:08
sanxiyn(btw, mozilla-bonobo can embed gpdf to view PDF file in the browser and that's cool too.)01:09
Ass_on_Firek, thx :)01:09
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sanxiynHm, what's the status of Java in Ubuntu?01:10
rburtonsanxiyn: non distributable i'd guess01:10
Mithrandiraz[a] zel: I'm on a 100Mbit university connection in .no, so well, it's fast enough.01:10
sanxiynTwo free Java applet plugins, kaffe-oji-plugin and gcjwebplugin, both sucks badly.01:11
rburtonis cdimage.ubuntu.com actually alive?01:11
=== lypanov just downloading the torrent
sanxiynEh, not plugin themselves, but underlying free Java implementation (particularly of AWT) I think.01:11
Mithrandirmdz: should I upload the new ooo with the .desktop fixes?01:11
jdubsanxiyn: see the FAQ on the wiki01:11
=== lypanov got a download speed faster than his adsl is specced to allow :)
sanxiynrburton: Yes.01:11
sanxiynjdub: I am just complaining. Sorry.01:12
jdubsanxiyn: sounded like a perfectly valid question to me ;)01:13
sanxiynjdub: gcjwebplugin and its dependency is all GPL-licensed free software.01:14
sanxiynjdub: It *can* view some Java applets on the net, but it can crash badly. :(01:14
emkI've got to go01:15
cefsanxiyn: yeah but java as a whole sucks generally01:17
sanxiyncef: Why?01:17
khaleklicense for one01:18
cefsanxiyn: because there are so many applets that simply won't run under JRE 1.4, because they were written either with stuff that has been removed from the standard, or they are just buggy junk that java allows you to write01:18
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cefsanxiyn: I need java myself for a number of reasons, and unfortunately it almost ends up being that I need at least 4 or 5 machines with different jre installs so that I can actually use all the apps I need to use in my work day01:19
sanxiynkhalek: I am not talking about SUN's Java.01:19
cefsanxiyn: and that's irrespective of windows/linux/whatever01:20
khaleksanxiyn: well many people build things against it and many of the alternatives aither also have a sucky license or don't implement everything01:21
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sanxiynkhalek: So help implementing it.01:21
sanxiynIMO Java-as-a-technology is cool. Language is not *that* bad, class libraries are comprehensive, and 3rd party libraries built upon the base is large, also community.01:21
cefgod forbid if anyone wants to use the java applets in any cisco stuff. they ONLY work with sun's JRE 1.3 (not even 1.4)01:21
sanxiyncef: Too bad. :(01:22
cefsanxiyn: yeah.. as a network/systems admin, controlling certain cisco products is part of my job01:22
cefthough cisco need to get off their rear and do something about that.. jre1.3 won't install on XP or 2003. *grin*01:23
beezlyyou use java to do that stuff?01:23
khaleksanxiyn: its a moving target though and I'm not overly fond of java myself01:23
cefbeezly: CMS (cluster management suite) is written in java01:24
cefbeezly: and if you're setting up their wireless switching thing, the interface is java..01:24
beezlywireless switching thing?01:25
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cefyes, you CAN do it by cli, but it's no fun at all01:25
cefbeezly: can't remember the name of their 'all encompassing' wireless product suite.. it's something horrendus in cost tho01:25
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beezlywireless lan solutions engine?01:26
beezlythe location manager in that is java01:26
cefnah the thing that sits on top of WLSE01:26
cefbut yeah01:26
LoneTechCongrats on the prerelease. I just joined the i386 torrent.01:27
cefand a lot of networking vendors are switching to java for their products like that.. which in itself is worrying01:27
ryocan I ask a question regardindg alsa problems after installation in this channel?01:28
Mithrandirryo: sure01:28
cefryo: that's what this channel is for. ask away!01:28
nawtyhallo folks...01:28
beezlyheh, have to get used to not typing "su" all the time :)01:28
beezlyhe na01:28
nawtyhow do i make debian default to apache2 01:28
beezlyhey nawty, even01:28
ryowell, it simply can't find any available alsa card, but alsaconf recognize it01:29
ryomodprobe.d/sound seems ok, has the right alias stuff01:29
ryothe modules all are loaded01:29
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LoneTechdebian doesn't default to having a webserver installed, you'd just have to make sure apache2 is the only web server installed01:29
nawtyLoneTech: for example if i go aptitude install cacti 01:30
nawtyLoneTech: it attempts to install apache1 not 2, how do i make it do 2 01:30
LoneTechit depends on "apache | apache-ssl | apache-perl | apache2", meaning apache is the default, just ask it to install apache2 too: aptitude install cacti apache201:30
sanxiynnawty: Aha, install apache2 first, and then install other softwares.01:31
LoneTechapache2 will satisfy the dependency.01:31
nawtyLoneTech: thanks :) 01:31
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nawtyLoneTech: aptitude install cacti apache2 seems to want to install apache01:33
LoneTechodd. try just installing apache2 first?01:33
nawtyoki, trying now 01:34
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=== LoneTech likes bittorrent.
LoneTech"dl speed: 961.8 KB/s"01:36
sanxiyn131 kB/s here.01:36
vegaidoes Ubuntu use the Debian repositories?01:36
sanxiynvegai: No.01:36
Mithrandirvegai: not directly, no.01:37
Mithrandirvegai: we sync packages off them, though01:37
vegaiah. So there'll be more or less the same software in both?01:37
Mithrandirmore or less, yes.01:38
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nawtyMithrandir: .za mirrors ? 01:38
Mithrandirnawty: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive01:39
Mithrandirno .za mirrors yet, it seems01:39
jedinice ISP az[a] zel :)01:39
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vegaidoes Ubuntu use the same bugreporting system as Debian?01:39
Qerubvegai: See topic.01:39
sanxiynvegai: It's Bugzilla.01:40
vegaiah 01:40
vegaiah :-(01:40
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egonizerI installed gnome 2.8 from ubuntu over debian sid, the 'computer' menu i place of the 'action' menu is a great improvement, IMHO. Now I can keep the desktop without any icon :-)01:40
LoneTechwill you transfer to "Malone"?01:40
nawty:( 01:40
vegaiis there something the devs didn't like about the Debian's bugreporting system?01:40
Kamiongod, just took me like an hour to catch up here01:40
nawtyLoneTech: what happens with mod_php if i install apache2 01:40
KamionLoneTech: eventually, yeah01:40
nawtyLoneTech: will it modify the configuration and etc ? 01:40
LoneTechnawty: I think so, though it may just ask you.01:41
sanxiynnawty: Eh, no.01:41
nawtyoki, :) 01:41
nawtyoh, erm...01:41
ralphhi, can anyone tell me where to find the kernel sources?01:41
nawtyso which one is it ? 01:41
sanxiynnawty: For apache2 you need something like apache-modconf enable php4 or whatever.01:41
Kamionvegai: I'm one of the *developers* of Debian's bug tracking system :-) There was some debate about it, Canonical also employs one of Bugzilla upstream and we'll be switching to our own eventually01:41
sanxiynnawty: I think it's documented in /usr/share/doc/<apache2-php4-module>/README.Debian.01:41
nawtybah, ill stick to apache1 then for the moment 01:42
vegaiKamion: "our own" means specific to Ubuntu?01:42
sanxiynnawty: Well, it's pretty easy actually.01:42
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Kamionvegai: Malone, as above01:42
Kamionvegai: there are some things we want to do that no existing bug tracking system really handles very well01:42
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jdubvegai: (and would be horrifically hard to integrate into existing systems)01:43
LoneTechI am particularly interested in Rosetta.01:43
jdubLoneTech: :)01:43
jdubLoneTech: coming soon :)01:43
LoneTechI've been asked to assist in a swedish translation of Xandros, and found that their existing internationalization support is rather inconsistent.01:44
LoneTechgoing to submit some reports, but it's a bit alarming when they miss slight issues like the *existence* of keys, or "local" (as in non-US!) paper formats.01:45
nawtysanxiyn: ok, ill try apache2 then :) 01:45
LoneTechoh, the torrent is complete.01:46
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maswanHmm.. Are the torrents in need of additional seeds?01:47
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jdubhey maswan!01:48
LoneTechnot the i386 one: 54 seeds, 6 leechers.01:48
maswanhi there jdub 01:48
Mithrandirmaswan: not really, I think..  my i386 seed is running with ~1.3Mbit up01:48
rburtonhi ninja01:48
=== maswan is a mirror admin, as usual. :)
maswanMithrandir: ACK01:48
ninjahiya rburton :)01:48
Mithrandirmy ppc is ~550kbit, the amd64 is ~50kbit ATM.01:48
Mithrandirmaswan: and we're more or less on the same net, I guess. :P01:49
maswanMithrandir: Yeah01:49
KamionLoneTech: those are actually fairly easy to fix, it's just that getting it right for every language and keyboard layout on the planet is a bit ... non-trivial01:50
maswanMithrandir: no fai/jumpstart/roboinst/nim or other automagic network install stuff yet in here?01:50
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LoneTechbut Debian upstream has tables for guessing connections between keyboards, languages and locales iirc, as well as paper format selection, and there's no trace of them in xandros01:51
LoneTechdebian upstream made the horrible mistake of assuming everyone had Mac-specific USB keyboards for some time, though ;)01:51
jdubrburton: how did your reinstall go?01:53
rburtonjdub: cool. got some notes, will mail soon01:53
jduboh rad01:53
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LoneTechnow to figure out how to feed ubuntu to my laptop..01:55
KamionLoneTech: not quite, it's more complicated than that01:56
beezlyhmm, evolution is doing crazy things with its calendar for me01:56
KamionLoneTech: the keyboard layouts are all called "mac-usb-*", and there was some conflation of hardware with keyboard layout; that's still an issue01:57
beezlyevents don't appear on the calendar when I add them, but do appear in the gnome clock thing01:57
KamionLoneTech: I don't think we (er, "we" == Debian) ever actually assumed USB hardware though01:57
MithrandirKamion: it's fun juggling hats? ;)01:57
beezlythen I unload my calendar (unclick the tick box), and re-enable it again.. and the events magically re-appear01:57
LoneTechKamion: but there's a choice now. several upgrades/installs for me actually didn't show a question but silently converted se to mac-usb-se or something.01:57
khalekthe mac laptops use adb internally for one01:58
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Qerubbeezly: File a bug in Ubuntu's bugzilla maybe?01:58
LoneTechmy personal favourite distro is still debian, anyway. I'm looking into Ubuntu more as something to recommend.01:58
andredI seriously suspect something is not right with the Ubuntu i386 ISO. I've burnt it now twice on two different computers and on read them on two different CD's and I get reading errors ...01:59
LoneTechah, install/netboot, just what I was hoping for!01:59
rburtonandred: worked fine for me01:59
LoneTechandred: read errors can't be in the ISO02:00
beezlyQerub: I don't think I can replicate it02:00
Mithrandirandred: have you checked the md5sum?02:00
andredMithrandir, Yes, it matches.02:00
beezlyjust gone through the same actions again and it's not done it02:00
LoneTechCD-Rs are always an adventure02:00
Mithrandirandred: if you burn it, then read it back using dd if=/dev/cdrom | md5sum -, does the md5sum match?02:00
fabbionedaniels: see also #27123502:00
=== LoneTech will bbl, errands to run
andredThe thing is, another guy reported the exact same error on the mailing list too; his read fails on the exact same Debian file.02:01
KamionLoneTech: mac-usb-uk is absolutely correct, but mac-usb-es isn't; there's some brokenness in some of the keymaps I think02:01
rburtonandred: this might be the weird DMA problem some machines have02:01
andredMithrandir, I'm doing "md5sum" on the CD device, and after a while I get reading errors.02:01
ninjadoes Ubunti come with a working gthumb?02:01
rburtonninja: yes02:01
beezlyandred: perhaps you have writers that get upset with certain bit-patterns on certain media?02:01
vegaidoes Ubuntu have kde-3.3?02:01
tsengvegai: hah no way02:01
Mithrandirvegai: no02:01
beezlyandred: either way, check the md5sum from your written media02:01
andredbdale, See what I said above.02:02
vegaitseng: hmm?02:02
andredrburton, I usually haven't had problems with DMA. Is it a problem specific to a kernel?02:02
lypanovvegai: sounds like a troll02:02
vegailypanov: what? why?02:02
Mithrandirandred: if dd if=/dev/cdrom | md5sum - does give you read errors, you have a problem with your writer, somehow.02:02
lypanovvegai: i'd love to see kde pkgs :)02:02
lypanovvegai: i mean tseng sounds like a troll02:02
vegaioh, ah02:02
tsenghaha, right.02:02
beezlyandred: if you get io errors whilst reading the disk, it's not a problem with the iso image you burned02:02
Qerubvegai: "Although we're concentrating on GNOME with Ubuntu, stay tuned for some interesting KDE stuff on the way. :-)"02:03
andredMithrandir, I have burnt it at my place and now at a friends house, so the burn is okay. The *reading* could be a problem perhaps.02:03
rburtonandred: i'm not sure, but we had the problem on a machine here. worked most of the time but d-i produced read errors. turn dma off, iirc hdc=nodma is the trick in grub02:03
lypanovhey hey Qerub :)02:03
Mithrandirandred: yes, either the reading or the writing, then. :)02:03
lypanovQerub: ur at con* also?02:03
Qerublypanov: howdy :-)02:03
danielscef: ping02:03
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lypanovyoyo daniels :)02:03
Qerublypanov: con*?02:03
andredrburton, Hmm, ok. A Debian ISO of Sarge works perfectly though, so that's a bit strange.02:03
danielslypanov: hello there02:03
rburtonyes, that is02:03
lypanovdaniels: how's ya laptop doin'?02:04
danielslypanov: trying our fine distribution?02:04
cefdaniels: yo02:04
lypanovdaniels: thinking of :)02:04
danielslypanov: it isn't. thom's strong-armed me into buying an x40.02:04
lypanovdaniels: just downloaded :)02:04
andredrburton,  And the fact that I barf on bsdutils and the guy on the mailing-list does the same.02:04
lypanovdaniels: dang u stil didn't get it fixed? :/02:04
lypanovdaniels: that sukxkrz02:04
lypanovdaniels: still an x40 would be nice :)02:04
danielslypanov: the x40 is love02:04
danielsyeah, about 9 days away02:04
lypanovnice :>02:04
lypanovcongratz on ur new relationship then :P02:05
danielsheh. it's all thom's fault. i really want a powerbook, seriously.02:05
lypanovthey are kinda cute admittedly02:05
cefdaniels: everything is thom's fault02:06
lypanovcef: :P02:06
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lypanovwhat does PermitRootLogin default to in ubuntu?02:06
lypanovis there a "securing debian" guide somewhere by any changes?02:06
mjg59If powerbooks had working power management under Linux, they might approach the excellence of the X4002:06
khalekyou have to pick your model02:07
khaleksome have working suspend and all02:07
Mithrandirdaniels: you're getting an x40?02:07
khalekthey generally aren't the latest ones02:07
danielsMithrandir: yeah02:07
Mithrandirdaniels: you evil, evil person.02:07
lypanovMithrandir: the bt worked perfectly btw02:07
Mithrandirlypanov: goodie :)02:07
danielsMithrandir: yeah02:07
lypanovMithrandir: say thx to the fixer :)02:07
Mithrandirlypanov: it's thom, he's in here.02:08
lypanovthx thom :)02:08
khalekdaniels: so I take it you guys are set for x40 testing then?02:08
beezlyis there an alternative way to get to the "Computer" menu in GNOME?02:08
danielskhalek: always have been02:08
khalekdaniels: now there are 2 people who don't have x40s?02:09
Kamionlypanov: "yes" (I'm the openssh maintainer in Debian too ...)02:10
Kamionlypanov: since Ubuntu doesn't set the root password by default, it's even less important than it is in Debian02:11
lypanovKamion: you have sudo etc setup?02:11
danielskhalek: heh. most everyone has an x40, a couple have/had powerbooks, and one holdout has an hp.02:11
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Kamionlypanov: yes02:11
lypanovgtk2 gui's for all installer progs?02:12
tsengits ncurses02:12
tsengyou dont have to look at it very long02:12
lypanovis the installer itself sudo or the backend sudo?02:12
lypanovoops sorry. i meant during runtime02:12
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tsengsudo doesnt have much to do with the installer at all02:12
TerminXwhat's the likelyhood of Ubuntu debs working on Debian?02:13
lypanovas in. after installation. is there a gtk2 proggie for looking at installed pkgs etc?02:13
Kamionlypanov: synaptic, runs inside gksudo02:13
tsengah yep02:13
Kamioneventually we'd want to make it just use sudo for the backend obviously, IIRC we didn't have time for warty unfortunately02:13
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ricky_clarksonSo, is Ubuntu continually based on Debian or is it based on some snapshot taken at some point in the past?02:14
Mithrandirricky_clarkson: snapshot02:14
lypanovlooks nice02:14
Mithrandirricky_clarkson: but the next release will be a newer snapshot, and so on.02:14
lypanovKamion: i'm *very* happy to hear that you guys have a clue :P02:14
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moochthe name is not explained in the announcement...02:14
moochmorning, lamont02:15
Mithrandirhi mooch 02:15
Kamionlypanov: hey, we have one of the Debian security team working for us, he'd jump up and down on our skulls if we were being security-clueless ...02:15
Qerublypanov: con*?02:15
Mithrandirmooch: '"Ubuntu" is an ancient African word, meaning "Humanity To Others"'02:15
danielslamont: morning dude02:15
lypanovQerub: oh sorry. company name02:15
danielsmooch: 'a person is a person through other people'02:15
ricky_clarksonMithrandir: Sounds like a reasonable idea.  I was at a Gentoo meeting recently (hosting it, but I'm nothing to do with Gentoo) and remarked that one of Debian's faults is the slow stable process.02:15
lypanovQerub: i went off to look for the spelling of the one word i couldn't spell :P02:15
lypanovKamion: :>02:16
Qerublypanov: Er. No? :) Why would I be that? :) I'm just a clueless lamer.02:16
Qerublypanov: Canonical BTW.02:16
moochfound it in the wiki, but thanks!02:16
lypanovKamion: tho i don't like the idea of u getting ur skull squashed :)02:16
lypanovQerub: maybe finally i'll actually remember that :P02:16
moochis ubuntu in need of a sysadm? :)02:16
Kamionlypanov: nor I02:16
danielsmooch: we have some very good ones right now, but thanks for the offer :)02:17
Mithrandirmooch: I doubt it. :)02:17
QerubIs someone gonna provide some space for community driven KDE support in Ubuntu?02:17
ricky_clarksonmooch: Nobody's in need of a sysadm, they're in need of systems that Just Work(tm) :)02:17
KamionQerub: yes; I'm not sure we can give you a timeline yet, but that's very much the plan02:17
moochdamn... :/02:18
lypanovKamion: good :)02:18
moochwell, gotta go to get a tattoo02:18
lypanovhave fun mooch :P02:18
nawtyLoneTech: still around ? 02:19
=== mode/#ubuntu [-s] by Md
nawtysanxiyn: around ? 02:19
QerubKamion: Great. I'm right that KDE is currently excluded, even in the "unsupported" repository?02:19
sanxiynnawty: Yep.02:19
QerubKamion: Am I*02:19
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nawtysanxiyn: what was the place you said i should have a look around to find the apache2 configure stuff for mod_php ? 02:19
nawtysanxiyn: and how exactly should i go about installing mod_php4 with apache2 ? 02:19
Gman'Also note that Daniel Stone, the freedesktop.org's release manager, is in the Ubuntu team. That says something.'02:19
Gmandaniels, what does that say? :/02:19
Gmandaniels, :P02:20
sanxiynnawty: Eh...02:20
sanxiynnawty: /query me02:20
lypanovGman: that he totally kicks ass? :P02:20
QerubGman: I think it has to do with X.org.02:20
KamionQerub: the source is in universe, but I believe there was some build problem, and generally up to now we've been ignoring build problems in universe02:20
fabbioneGman: that he sits on his chair and i do the real work _P02:20
KamionQerub: it's an issue for people, though, so somebody is looking at it ...02:20
QerubKamion: Sounds fair enough :)02:21
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sanxiynfabbione: Hehe.02:23
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jordiyay fabbione :)02:24
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nawtyhalo 02:25
Leoricwhat is the "way to do it" when I need a package from debian that isnt included in ubuntu?02:25
LeoricI really need gvim :)02:25
MithrandirLeoric: universe02:26
KamionLeoric: vim-gnome's in universe02:26
Kamionouch, archive is *so* much slower than it used to be ...02:26
maswanKamion: More mirrors and cut public access to the main archive? :)02:27
Leoricahh, I see02:28
Leoricsources.list :(02:28
ricky_clarksonDoes ubuntu handle source packages in a different way to Debian at all?02:28
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fooishbari'm almost beginning to think that fooishbar.org has issues under high load02:29
tsengyour server sucks, admit it02:29
tsengmine sucks more02:29
fabbionedaniels: can you get in contact with upstream about the Xv problem?02:29
Kamionricky_clarkson: how d'you mean?02:29
LodurielI've got a Netgear MA311(a wireless pci adapter) working with the orinoco module, will it be recognised by the installer? or will i need to set it up after?02:30
danielsfabbione: I can try, but we don't have any nv guys -- only nvidia themselves :\02:30
KamionLoduriel: that's fairly vanilla, should be recognized02:30
KamionLoduriel: if it doesn't, send us the PCI id02:30
ricky_clarksonKamion: Just wondering whether it can keep the Gentoo types happy too.02:30
LodurielKamion, thx for the info!02:31
Kamionricky_clarkson: right now we're working pretty much the same way as Debian02:31
fabbionedaniels: better than nothing02:31
ricky_clarksonIs there any plan for change that way?02:31
QerubWhat about ndiswrapper? :)02:31
Kamionricky_clarkson: there are other bits of Canonical working on alternatives, though02:31
=== lypanov would switch in a moment to ubuntu if it had a emerge like apt-source
Kamionricky_clarkson: more news when it happens :)02:32
nawty*dances round*02:32
Kamionlypanov: Ubuntu itself will stay Debian-style, I imagine02:32
Qerublypanov: it would take about 20 min for you too code something like that :)02:32
Kamionit's a binary distribution, deal02:32
lypanovQerub: 5 :P02:32
Qerublypanov: then do it02:32
tsengthere isnt much reason to build you own when the packages work well02:32
lypanovKamion: no :)02:33
azeemlypanov: ITP ubuntu-personal-buildd02:33
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Qerubtseng: "optimization!"02:33
tsengQerub: lies02:33
lypanovezsquirt: itmp?02:33
lypanovazeem: itp?02:33
Kamionsooner or later there'll be better facilities for this though02:33
Qerubtseng: please notice the two "s02:33
lypanovKamion: good :)02:33
KamionQerub: it's already tuned for p4 ...02:33
Qerubplease, i was just kidding.02:33
Kamionlypanov: debianism, "intent to package"02:33
lypanovKamion: i hate gentoo's compile times now that i no longer have a 3 machine cluster :)02:33
ricky_clarksonWell, Debian provides source package utilities for a reason.  For whatever purpose, people do like to tinker.02:33
Kamionricky_clarkson: the main reason for that is that Debian developers need them02:34
lypanovKamion: ah. thx02:34
ricky_clarksonI suppose it'd be nice to do apt-get install somepackage --no-gtk02:34
QerubKamion: Oh. I haven't seen that information anywhere.02:34
Kamionricky_clarkson: the complexities of that are unbelievable :)02:34
ricky_clarksonKamion: Not really.02:34
lypanovKamion: yeah. its difficult. but its freakishly useful02:34
Kamionyes, really - it's fundamentally a very different style of distribution02:34
lypanovactually my main reason for loving source installs is that making ebuilds is trivial02:34
MithrandirKamion: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nogtk apt-get -b source $pkg 02:35
Qeruband debian usually provies "-gtk" or "-qt" packages...02:35
ricky_clarksonThat's how Gentoo works, except the --no-gtk is called a USE flag.  There's no reason that apt-get install somepackage --no-gtk couldn't build a source package, then install the resulting binary.02:35
MithrandirKamion: if pkg respected that, it _could_ work.02:35
KamionMithrandir: right, but then you have to deal with build-dependencies02:35
lypanovMithrandir: that would rock02:35
ricky_clarksonQerub: -gtk and -qt is just a waste of package name space, like having the version number in the package name.02:35
lypanovpoor clee :)02:35
MithrandirKamion: true, but that just means wrapping the apt-get call.02:35
Kamionricky_clarkson: we do have a Gentoo guy on staff, one of the things he's been looking at is related02:35
lypanovdaniels: machine died?02:35
=== tseng shakes head
MithrandirKamion: though, you'd get too many build-deps installed.02:35
ricky_clarksonMithrandir: Does that command line you gave actually work?02:36
ricky_clarksonMithrandir: You could remove them after building.02:36
lypanovhow can i install a specific (old) version of a pkg? (easy in gentoo, just rename the file)02:36
Qerubricky_clarkson: it would work if debian/rules supported it02:36
lypanova checkinstall gui would rock02:36
ricky_clarksonQerub: *ooh*02:36
Qerublypanov: i'm actually doing something like that02:37
lypanovQerub: yer i know02:37
lypanovQerub: thats incidently y i asked u about con* thing :)02:37
Qerubi'm just a lazy fart when doing it.02:37
lypanovi would love it :)02:37
Qerubthe non-gui part is working though.02:37
lypanovremoves my will to use gentoo completely02:37
LodurielQerub, any project page or something?02:37
Kamionlypanov: specific version: apt-get install <package>=<version>, provided that you have an entry in sources.list providing that02:38
lypanovas its custom pkgs and specific version installs that keep me using gentoo02:38
lypanovKamion: whats that entry? thats the problem i had :|02:38
QerubLoduriel: i've got about two lines written about it. it's just a very short shell script.02:38
LodurielQerub, ok02:38
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Kamionlypanov: well, in Debian's case you go to snapshot.debian.net; we've nothing like that for Ubuntu yet, we'd much rather fix the problems that cause you to be using the old version in the first place02:39
Lodurielit's a great idea though02:39
ricky_clarksonKamion: Yeah, but you can't have more than one version of the same package installed into the same / with dpkg.  I thought that was what he was talking about, Gentoo's slots.02:39
QerubLoduriel: you can try http://vemod.net/slask/software/quickpackage202:39
QerubLoduriel: and don't laugh :)02:39
lypanovKamion: my last example. broken bison came out. kde's dcop was fucked totally by it. needed to downgrade before i could commit02:39
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LodurielQerub, i promiss not to02:39
QerubLoduriel: or: feel free to laugh, but remeber that i'm fully aware of it.02:40
lypanovQerub: why not implement the gui in some scripting lang?02:40
Qerublypanov: i'm on my way :)02:40
Qerublypanov: i just have to learn it first. hehe.02:41
Qerublypanov: i've been looking at kommander and kjsembed.02:41
Qerublypanov: i've got a .ui file ready actually02:41
Kamionlypanov: fix bison :)02:42
Qerublypanov: feel free to help me :) this front hasn't moved in two months or something.02:42
Kamion(or fix KDE, whichever is relevant ...)02:42
Qerublypanov, Loduriel: anyway, the simplicity is pretty obvious.02:42
LodurielQerub, i do agree02:43
LodurielQerub, perl/GTK2 or ruby/GTK2 are very good gui scripting languages, maybe you should try em02:44
nawtywhy is the libmysql client 3.x and the mysql-common 4.02:45
nawty? 02:45
nawtyanyone ? 02:45
QerubLoduriel: I'll have to start with a KDE GUI (in order to survive).02:47
fabbione(womd gptp 202:47
fabbioneoh yeah02:47
lypanovKamion: no thanks :) more important things to do :)02:50
lypanovKamion: i fixed kde instead in the end02:50
lypanovKamion: by removing the dep on bison :P02:50
lypanov(or yacc)02:50
lypanovQerub: i'd suggest qtruby of course :)02:51
Qerublypanov: Ruby feels like an uncommon dependency.02:51
Kamionlypanov: right, but that's *our* approach - fundamentally it's the right thing to do if your goal's to release a stable distribution, and within stable releases by definition such things shouldn't happen ...02:52
Qerublypanov: What have you fixed?02:53
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=== lamont has uploaded some chunks of kde, needs to get the archive slightly un-frozen for them to actually show up.
seb128we are frozen ?02:56
lamontKamion: apparently... accepted mail, but no happy-happy-joy-joy02:56
seb128that's why my gnome-theme fix doesn't show up in the archive :/02:57
lypanovQerub: i rewrote dcopidl out of boredom02:57
lypanovKamion: agreed02:58
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lamontseb128: yeah - I expect it was elmo efficiency in locking down the release for preview-release timeframe.03:02
lamontsince everything between now and then must be approved...03:02
seb128yeah ...03:03
seb128fabbione: here ?03:03
Kamionlamont: I didn't think the approval was mechanically enforced03:03
lamontKamion: me either, but empirical evidence suggests otherwise.03:03
seb128fabbione: could you look on #1272 please ? Seems to be a keymap problem rather than a gnome one ... but I don't know a lot about keymap stuff03:04
fabbioneseb128: what can i do for you?03:04
fabbioneneither do i..03:04
fabbionebut i will look03:04
lamontKamion: and elmo was asking mdz about approvers yesterday, ISTR03:04
seb128do we have somebody with knowledge in this area ? :)03:04
Kamionkeymaps might have to be fixed in the installer / console-data03:05
seb128fabbione: just have a quick look and let me know if you have some idea, thanks03:05
fabbioneseb128: i am reading it now03:05
seb128Kamion: have you seen the .be guys getting .de keymap bugs ?03:06
Lodurielbye everyone03:06
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Kamionvaguely, I've been totally overwhelmed with information today03:06
fabbioneseb128: i would ask him if the problem is persisten all over the applications (that would make it more a X problem)03:06
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fabbioneseb128: otherwise i have no clue03:06
seb128fabbione: ok, thanks03:06
Kamionseb128: if it's reproducible in a console, feel free to assign it to me03:06
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srbakerdoes ubuntu use debian-installer?03:08
Kamionsrbaker: yes, somewhat modified03:08
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MacPlusG3is there a place to report bugs?03:10
chrootMacPlusG3: topic03:10
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kokeMacPlusG3, http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.com/ IIRC03:17
srbakerhrm.  wonder what it says for debian's release cycle when a new company can start up and issue a release faster than we can. :P03:17
MacPlusG3koke: got it03:17
thom(it's in the topic) :-)03:17
kokeouch :P03:17
thomsrbaker: benefit of people working on ubuntu full time03:17
thomand having to follow the release plan ;-)03:18
srbakerthom, yeah, i know.03:18
KamionUbuntu's supported set of packages is a lot smaller, too, which makes a huge difference03:18
srbakerthat's a good thing.  it's also a bad thing, too, tho03:20
KamionEPARSE :)03:20
srbakerfedora has a smaller package list, but it's missing everything i need. :P03:20
khaleknot to mention less archs03:20
mjg59Possibly also the benefit of having a FUCKING BIG STICK03:20
mjg59FUCKING BIG STICKs make it easier to get people to conform03:20
srbakerfedora is missing kaffe, and a bunch more03:20
Keybuksrbaker: that's what universe is for ... it's not supported, but it's their03:20
lypanovand people with a clue help :)03:20
Keybukuh, there03:20
srbakerKeybuk, yeah.  see, i've been *very* actively supporting fedora lately for desktop user friends.03:22
srbakerbut fedora lacks the packages i need, and the non-RedHat packages are of *very* low quality03:22
andredg-v-m doesn't seam to work out of the box for me. It's set to launch "gthumg --import-photos", but it doesn't seam to launch that on plugin of camera. HAL problem? "gthumb --import-photos" works on the command line.03:23
mjg59andred: What does device manager identify your camera as?03:25
srbakerso ubuntu just takes debian and puts a release schedule behind it.  that's what debian's needed all along03:25
mjg59srbaker: And ships some non-free stuff03:26
srbakerwhat non-free stuff?03:26
mjg59Though that's limited to drivers03:26
srbakeroh.  i currently use the nvidia binary driver.03:26
mjg59There's stuff in restricted that's not DFSG free03:26
thomrestricted has the nvidia drivers and some other stuff03:26
rburtonandred: hal needs to be told what devices are cameras.  i think it knows about the ixus by default, and the eos-300d was added today iirc03:26
andredmjg59, info.product is "IXUS 400 Camera", which seams right.03:26
Kamionsrbaker: that's rather a simplification, but if you like :)03:26
thomandred: let me try mine03:27
rburtonandred: check info.capabilities (iirc)03:27
srbakerwhat is it that canonical will do for revenue generation, though?  consulting?  support?03:27
rburtonsrbaker: drug running03:27
mjg59andred: That's a plain-text string that's read from the camera03:27
srbakeri'm a little concerned about canonical being around next year.  i don't have to have the same worries about larger companies like RedHat03:27
=== lamont shoots rburton for telling. ;-)
srbakerand community stuff like debian03:27
Keybuksrbaker: would it help to know we have roughly the same amount of money in the bank as RedHat?03:27
srbakerrburton, oh, well, let me know if i can be of help with that.  my cousins are apparently quite high in the drug food chain in Canada.03:27
lifelessKeybuk: more as I understand it :)03:28
diemanhey srbaker.03:28
srbakerKeybuk, uh, i don't believe that.  but it's nice to hear03:28
andredrburton, On the Device tab I have a label "Capabilities" and that says "Unknown".03:28
dieman349 requests currently being processed, 1 idle workers03:28
diemanftp.cs.umn.edu is *full*03:28
mjg59andred: Sounds like it's a hal issue, then03:28
lamontdieman: time to up the limit, eh? :-)03:28
diemanlamont: yeah, im not puttin more than 350 apache processes to the task here03:29
diemantheres only so much bandwidth to pass aroun03:29
andredmjg59, Okay. Oddly enough, on that tab I have first "Device: IXUS 400 Camera" and them further down "Device Unknown" (notice no colon on second label).03:29
lamontKamion: the other possibility is that cron.daily is now running, um, daily.03:29
lamontKamion: but that would be, well, wrong, you know.03:30
rburtonandred: run a locale for .fdi files, you'll need to fiddle with that. then report the changes03:30
mjg59andred: Yeah, Device: is the vendor name for it and Device (no colon) is hal stuff03:30
mjg59rburton: s/locale/locate/ ?03:31
lamontdieman: about 4 more hours and I'll have an ISO... Grumble03:31
Kinnisonlamont: did you not bittorrent it yesterday then?03:32
andredrburton, Ok, I'll try that.03:32
lamontKinnison: started to, but life was sucky03:32
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Kinnisonlamont: I know that feeling03:32
lamontthe rsync at home continued chugging along - I unthrottled it last night and burned up 3-days worth of quota, then burned up another 60MB (.6 days) this morning.03:33
Keybuksrbaker: Canonical and Ubuntu are separate as well, though Canonical employ staff to work full-time on Ubuntu there's nothing requiring Ubuntu is only worked on by Canonical employees03:33
Kinnisonlamont: quota?!03:33
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=== free|afk is now known as free
lamontKinnison: 3.2GB/mo, although I can have all I want at <56kbps.03:33
Kinnisonlamont: yeesh03:33
makofree: are you debian-custom free?03:34
mako(morning everyone)03:34
lamontso the mirror machine is throttled to 30kbps, and the rest of the activity tends to add about 10kbps to each 5-min sample03:34
lamontmorning mako03:34
StingRayHi guys. Can anyone help a new Ubuntu user with a small issue?03:34
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jdubStingRay: that's what we're here for :)03:34
=== Kinnison tickles mako and his emu
andredrburton: So you're saying I should try to adapt canon-digital-ixus-v.fdi to IXUS 400 according to what I find in Device Manager?03:34
lamontmako: you still left coast?  or somewhere that it's a decent hour of the morning?03:34
StingRayCool! When I installed Ubuntu, I was never asked to provide a root password. How do I change it?03:35
makolamont: i'm 8 days into being a newyorker03:35
KeybukStingRay: the default account has sudo access, with the root password disabled03:35
KeybukStingRay: sudo passwd, if you specifically want a root password03:35
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tuo2hey all03:35
lamontKinnison: it's a co-op, and given that I'm sharing a single 802.11 link with a bunch of others, I have to agree with that billing model.03:35
StingRayThanks, I'll give it a try03:35
Kinnisonlamont: aah03:35
lamontKeybuk: not sudo passwd root?03:35
lamontKinnison: 18 miles from my house to the hilltop, and then another 6? to the home of the dual-T1's.03:36
Keybuklamont: the root is implied by being root :p03:36
danielsu know what... windows really rocks03:36
danielsbill gates is the man03:36
Kinnisonlamont: meep. That's worse than I used to have. At least I was only 9 miles from the leased lines03:37
lamontsomewhere I thought it grabbed the original user...03:37
=== Keybuk drops a Cherry iMac on daniels's head
=== Kinnison immacs daniels' head while we're at it.
lamontKinnison: Fiber terminates 3.25 miles from my house (that's under 18000 feet, fwiw...)03:37
Kinnisondaniels: cheap imitation03:37
ggiWell, I'm about to install Warty on a laptop. Have there been any brown-paper-bag bugs pertaining to laptop explosion found since yesterday?03:38
lamontso I should be able to get DSL soon...03:38
Keybukggi: what laptop?03:38
ggiKeybuk: A Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo D 1840. Fairly generic, gets on well with Debian.03:39
StingRayKeybuk: Am I missing something here. It doesn't work with sudo passwd. I'm logged in as the user I created during installation.03:39
danielsim sorry03:39
=== tuo2 considers installing warty on his laptop.
danielsthis is an imposter03:39
lamontStingRay: try 'sudo passwd root'03:39
diemanlamont: qworst?03:39
Keybukggi: should be fine -- we did a lot of laptop testing03:39
tuo2do we have a nice upgrade from a debian unstable build to warty? Or is it a rebuild jobbie?03:39
lamontdieman: yeppers.03:39
StingRayLamont: I did, no luck03:39
diemanlamont: if it is, you could look up the schedule for RT deployments03:39
andredrburton, Ok, I've now changed usb.product_id according to Device Manager for IXUS 400. Do I have to name the .fdi file to something special for it to work?03:40
KeybukStingRay: what did it do/not do?03:40
lamontthey did a walkthrough of a neighborhood 4 miles from here, sold my buddy that there DSL thang...03:40
diemanlamont: i'll find it wheni get into work03:40
lamontdieman: that'd be cool03:40
diemanlamont: ive got qwest service03:40
lamontand yes, the blocker is "no remote terminal"03:40
dieman1.5/1 is niiice03:40
StingRayIt asked for a password, the root one i guess, but I don't have it.03:40
ggiKeybuk: I'll inform you if bad things happen.03:40
KeybukStingRay: no, it's asking for *your* password :)03:40
lamontStingRay: sudo asks for _your_ password03:40
diemanlamont: i think they have a list of terminals they plan on doing in the next year or so, afair03:40
HrdwrBoBStingRay: read the screen :)03:40
lamontdieman: any clue how much work/money/whatever it is to deploy said RT?03:41
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StingRayNevermind, I got it now. How stupid of me :)03:41
andredrburton, YAy, with that change it not Just Works!:-)03:41
StingRayIt's all good now!03:41
lamontandred: s/not/now/???03:42
lamontscanned wierd the other way... :)03:42
andredShould I report the change as a bug, or can someone take it right now?03:42
diemanlamont: no idea03:42
StingRayJust one more quick question. Does apt-get work in ubuntu the same way it works in debian?03:43
=== lamont has slowly accumulated way more info about the local telephone infrastructure than he ever really wanted to.
lamontStingRay: it's the same code....03:43
StingRayThat explains it. Thanks.03:43
=== tuo2 sneezes
thomandred: please report it03:45
MacPlusG3anyone else getting "Error 15: File not found" from GRUB?03:46
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Qerubrburton: doesn't gvm handle camera recognition by looking for a dcim dir?03:46
diemanlamont: http://www.qwest.com/disclosures/netdisclosure459/ <-- enjoy03:46
diemanlamont: i dont see the future list there tho03:47
diemanlamont: i'll do some more digging03:47
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lamontdieman: they lie.  Wellington has one.03:48
diemanlamont: did you look at the RT list?03:48
diemanor the co-based list?03:48
diemanplus, sure, i bet its out of date ;)03:48
lamontExcel Document, 844k, posted 9/15/0403:49
diemanyour looking in the exel doc right?03:50
diemanthe other problem is that your phone line probally has load coils03:50
=== mode/#ubuntu [+o fabbione] by ChanServ
diemanso they would need to remove those too03:50
=== mode/#ubuntu [-o fabbione] by fabbione
lamontColorado08-Jul-04FTCLCOMA9701 N COUNTY RD 15FTCLCOLM740431X 9701 N COUNTY RD 1503:51
=== cc [~byte@drbyte.fedora] has joined #ubuntu
diemantat one close?03:51
lamont3 miles03:52
ccjdub: yak here then03:52
lamont3.25, actually.  It's on the fire station lot.03:52
jdubcc: dude, you should totally be looking at ubuntu now :)03:52
lamontwhich I happen to know is where system 3, repeater 7 lives.03:52
lamontand I'm system 3, repeater 1003:53
KamionMacPlusG3: you should have got a warning about using XFS during installation ...03:53
ccjdub: just curious to know how the prodding of X autodetection happens on PPC. is it /proc/device-tree bits?03:53
diemanYou have: 3.25 miles03:53
diemanYou want: feet03:53
dieman        * 1716003:53
lamontkinda OT, though. :-)03:53
ccjdub: yeah, i definitely should install it. but i'm proabbly after sources for the video autodetection tools :)03:53
jdubcc: fabio and daniels can give you better answers03:53
Kamioncc: that's xresprobe, in the archive03:53
diemanlamont: heh, you could hook up wireless there03:53
ccjdub: thanks. 03:53
fabbionecc:i tuses a combinantion of ddcprobe and X -probeonly03:53
jdubcc: i'll convert you when i come down :)03:53
fabbione^ it uses03:53
fabbionecc: plus a lot of black magic :-)03:54
lamontdieman: no, he's down in a hole.  And (believe it or not) there are trees in the way to the firestation03:54
ccfabbione: and it detects things sanely? our ddcprobe doesn't do OFvb stuff correctly03:54
fabbionecc: "our" ?03:54
=== lamont makes a very pointed call to qwest
fabbioneoh i see03:54
ccfabbione: and lshw for instance, or lspci detects hardware with totally wrong vram. trying to poke #address-cells to see if thats right or not, but seemingly no03:54
ccfabbione: fedora ppc (sorry)03:55
ccKamion: xresprobe, i'll take a look at that, thanks03:55
fabbionecc: Ovfb is disable by default03:55
lamontdieman: what's the distance limit?  18000,or was it still12000?03:55
tuo2jdub: quick question... have you done the warty display at Debsig yet?03:55
fabbionecc: we disable OFvb and VESA03:55
jdubtuo2: hrm?03:55
ccjdub: yes, that you prolly will :P but i have to err... fix this 03:55
jdubtuo2: the presentation?03:56
fabbionecc: but we probe the others.. it's not always sane.. it does its best...03:56
tuo2jdub: yup03:56
jdubtuo2: it was last night, for the release party :)03:56
fabbionecc: but usually in the worst case it will ask the user what to do03:56
tuo2jdub: Dammit!03:56
jdubtuo2: i posted an url to the slides to -users03:56
jdubtuo2: but but but -> slug this month :)03:56
tuo2aaah? really? nice.03:56
ccfabbione: ah. ok. so ddcprobe and X -probeonly actually tend to make sane decisions. ddcprobe mostly gives me crack answers on the ppc hardware i have here though03:56
=== jdub wonders who tuo2 is :-)
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ccfabbione: will ping you when i get to reading the sources for the debian/ubuntu stuff. thanks!03:56
tuo2jdub: Jordan. Friend of dopey.03:57
jdubcome along!03:57
=== cc dreams that some day system-config-display will all "just work"
fabbionecc: well it's a lot of shell scripting03:57
tuo2jdub: for sure. I've been looking for a new project to sink my teeth into.. so if you are taking help, I'll take a look around and see what I can give back :)03:57
fabbionecc: it has been working fine in all our tests.. too bad that the xresprobe is broken in the preview cd03:57
fabbionecc: but you can get it from the archive directly03:57
jdubtuo2: rock!03:58
ccfabbione: hacks then. heh. but i believe jdub when he says its all very sweet.03:58
fabbionecc: hehhe well we did our best03:58
=== cc starts downloading ubuntu ppc (against his better quota judgement)
jdubcc: we refer to it as 'totally rad'03:58
tuo2jdub: you got a upgrader from sarge? or do I have to blow this box away? (Thinkpad T3003:58
laotsefabbione: hey man :)03:58
jdubtuo2: easier to blow away atm03:58
tuo2bugger. 03:58
fabbionecc: with the hardware we had.. clearly unknown hardware might give different results03:58
ccyou guys have a liveCD about?03:58
fabbionehey laotse !03:58
lamonttuo2: warty froze end of june, so sarge is (in some cases) newer03:58
fabbionecc: liveCd doesn't use the same probe technique03:59
ccfabbione: you guys definitely have more hardware than we have... we work against the crowd to get ppc working03:59
tuo2lamont: ah....makes sense.03:59
=== tuo2 scrambles for dvd for backup porpoises.
ccfabbione: ah, okay. so i'm gonna install it soon then03:59
fabbionelaotse: what03:59
fabbionelaotse: whats03:59
fabbionelaotse: what's up man?03:59
tuo2jdub: when's slug?03:59
laotsefabbione: not much. getting ready to call into my team meeting. ugh.03:59
fabbionelaotse: boring stuff :-)03:59
jdubtuo2: last friday of the month, think that's the 25th03:59
laotsefabbione: seriously03:59
fabbionelaotse: well you can abuse your bw to download ubuntu during the meeting04:00
fabbionelaotse: at least it won04:00
fabbione't be wasted04:00
laotsefabbione: haha. will do.04:00
tuo2jdub: nice. is it still at JSB? (Was it ever?... I've fairly much only ever made it to debsig....)04:00
ccfabbione: yeah, our ddcprobe is on crack. atirage128 with 512mb of ram on an iMac (for example). my laptops give weird ones too.04:00
fabbioneok it's time i stop typing for today04:00
jdubtuo2: nah, slug is at UTS04:00
fabbionelaotse: i know :-)04:00
tuo2jdub: and where is the beer?04:00
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jdubtuo2: #slug on thsi netwrok btw04:00
jdubtuo2: we have indian afterward, usually, with beer ;)04:00