[12:00] <jdub> oh
[12:00] <jdub> wow
[12:00] <jdub> just
[12:00] <sabdfl> jdub: well so far
[12:00] <m_tthew> haha
[12:00] <edd> it'll be an interesting stress test for plone.
[12:00] <m_tthew> slashdot is my fault, only did that because someone suggested it in here :)
[12:01] <mako> m_tthew: it was inevitable :)
[12:01] <jdub> slashdot is good, was bound to happen anyway :)
[12:01] <lamont__> right.  off to fatter pipes.  bbiab
[12:01] <edd> it'll be a quick way to update the faq 
[12:02] <jvw> It could be me... but from my POV, you're already slashdotted
[12:02] <koke> bad slashdot effect :( I keep with 5 seeds in my torrent download
[12:03] <zack> i was surprised to see the site using zope... now you pay for it ;)
[12:03] <dieman> hahaha
[12:03] <edd> lookin' that way from here too. zope's not the best for this unless frontended with a caching proxy.
[12:03] <jvw> you didn't have a reverse squid on it?
[12:03] <m_tthew> slap a squid box in front of it
[12:03] <zack> edd: that would have helped
[12:03] <jdub> we even have a squid developer on team ;)
[12:04] <edd> hehe
[12:04] <jdub> i thought we had done that, too
[12:04] <koke> xD
[12:04] <sivang> so, how's warty going? :)
[12:04] <sivang> (back)
[12:04] <zack> hah! nice
[12:04] <dieman> heh
[12:04] <dieman> bittorrent is ++
[12:04] <dieman> my usage for i386 just jumped
[12:04] <koke> oh! I'm downloading the ppc one :(
[12:05] <m_tthew> the torrent seed I am running just leaped back up to saturation outbound
[12:05] <edd> ouch, i just did a HEAD on ubuntulinux.org... Pragma: no-cache
[12:05] <Jaye> Just read the LWN post about this distro. . . Awesome!  :)
[12:05] <j^> and apache should be set to have more threads running.
[12:06] <Jaye> The site is hammered though.  I just sent notice to my LUG, so that probably won't help much :|
[12:06] <koke>  /. should have his own caching system :)
[12:06] <jvw> dmirror.wolffelaar.nl ;)
[12:06] <koke> before sending websites to hell everydaty
[12:07] <xTina> That was a fast /.ing ;)
[12:07] <zack> i'm glad i was poking around the site about 2h ago, my squid's tummy is full :)
[12:07] <m_tthew> koke: in a perfect world the network would do all content distributing at the edge
[12:07] <Jaye> I just checked Linuxtoday, the release hasn't appeared there yet. . 
[12:10] <zack> so is warty-i386.iso live or just a d-i disc?
[12:10] <sivang> zack : ?
[12:11] <sivang> mako : has it been so loud here since i left? :)
[12:11] <zack> sivang: the wiki mentions a livecd somwhere. wondering if this is it or not.
[12:11] <sivang> zack : livecd is based on morphix
[12:11] <jdub> zack: delayed a bit from the preview
[12:11] <jdub> zack: coming very soon :)
[12:11] <sivang> zack : at least the last one I tested
[12:12] <zack> i see
[12:12] <zack> i've only got one machine at home, i might not get a chance to play
[12:12] <sivang> zack : if you have a couple of spare gigs you can install from the hd installer CD
[12:12] <mako> sivang: it just got loud
[12:12] <mako> sivang: we just hit /.
[12:13] <alextreme> naturally it's based on morphix, i've been slapping em together :)
[12:13] <sivang> zack : ohhh
[12:13] <sivang> oops
[12:13] <sivang> mako : i see :)
[12:13] <alextreme> hey mako, things getting hectic in ubuntu land? :)
[12:13] <mako> alextreme: it's getting hot :)
[12:13] <Md> I see the torrents bandwith usage raising :-)
[12:13] <sivang> yeah!
[12:14] <edd> grmph. no icons on desktop in a fresh install. thought that'd been fixed.
[12:15] <jdub> edd: that is intentional. :-)
[12:15] <zack> ouch, that's not nice PR
[12:15] <edd> jdub: no dude, i mean the white paper ones.
[12:15] <jdub> edd: ... oh?!
[12:15] <edd> jdub: turns out i preserved /home
[12:15] <jdub> oh
[12:15] <edd> jdub: rather then starting completely over.
[12:15] <edd> still, worth noting in case other people do that.
[12:16] <seb128> jdub: the lists archives don't work ?
[12:16] <jdub> seb128: looking into it
[12:16] <zack> come to think of it a lot of debian-gnome's icon sets give me white paper all over the place
[12:17] <dieman> woot!
[12:17] <dieman> this laptop does S3!
[12:18] <dieman> and ftp.cs.umn.edu is serving 40 requests
[12:18] <dieman> i upped the max to 350
[12:18] <dieman> since we were only using like 200mb of memory at like 70 servers
[12:19] <sivang> edd : there supposed to be no icons on frsh install
[12:19] <edd> sivang: read back to what i said :)
[12:20] <sivang> edd : ;)
[12:20] <mxpxpod> does anyone here use ubuntu on ppc?
[12:21] <jdub> mxpxpod: yeah
[12:21] <mxpxpod> jdub: how well does it work?
[12:21] <koke> mxpxpod, I'm downloading it :)
[12:21] <seb128> jdub: are we going to have list archive soon ? lucas_ want to send a news about the preview with a link to the announce :)
[12:22] <mxpxpod> koke: hehe, I'll have to come back here tomorrow and ask you how it is :)
[12:22] <lamont__> 88up 21 down.  I guess that's better...
[12:22] <mxpxpod> is there a ppc live cd?
[12:22] <Nafai> If it works like regular Debian on PPC, it works great. :)
[12:23] <jdub> mxpxpod: it's rad.
[12:23] <xTina> mxpxpod: I'm already installing ;)
[12:23] <mxpxpod> jdub: I'd like to try it out before I just blow away my debian setup... is there a live cd for ppc?
[12:23] <seb128> jdub: <andred> Anything Jeff Waught is involved with has to be good. (seen on #gnome-debian)
[12:23] <whiprush> did you guys need web mirrors?
[12:24] <xTina> I didn't get DHCP to work during install though :(
[12:24] <mxpxpod> xTina: really?
[12:24] <seb128> that's weird
[12:24] <xTina> mxpxpod: "You don't seem to be connected to a network ..."
[12:24] <mxpxpod> oh crap... I gotta get home or my wife will kill me
[12:24] <jdub> seb128: haha. crack.
[12:24] <seb128> :)
[12:25] <m_tthew> xTina: you managed to burn the image with DiskUtility after all?
[12:25] <mxpxpod> I'll talk to you guys tomorrow!
[12:25] <xTina> m_tthew: No, I used cdrecord.
[12:25] <Nafai> jdub, edd, seb128, any others who might have been involved with Gnome 2.8, congrats on the release!
[12:25] <seb128> jdub: thanks for the archives, that works now :)
[12:25] <seb128> Nafai: thanks
[12:25] <jdub> seb128: wait a sec
[12:26] <jdub> going to break them again
[12:26] <Nafai> edd: heh. :)
[12:26] <dieman> yeah
[12:26] <xTina> m_tthew: I'll file a radar bug later, let's see what Apple thinks ;)
[12:26] <dieman> were pushing about 55mbps
[12:26] <edd> (and yeah, they rock!)
[12:26] <Nafai> edd: I enjoy reading your blog on planet gnome none-the-less
[12:26] <dieman> im guessing we're io-bound, older raid hw
[12:26] <dieman> wish it was setup as striped too
[12:26] <m_tthew> xTina: heh
[12:26] <xTina> m_tthew: And I'm planning to re-rip the CD once I'm done installing and test that.
[12:27] <m_tthew> xTina: I'm still waiting on the iso, unm mirror has slowed a bit :)
[12:27] <jdub> seb128: don't link yet
[12:27] <seb128> jdub: the url is going to change ?
[12:27] <jdub> yes
[12:27] <dieman> m_tthew: heh
[12:27] <jdub> maybe
[12:27] <jdub> hold on
[12:27] <dieman> m_tthew: thats me
[12:27] <xTina> But it's a really odd problems, I've burned hundreds of ISOs using DiskUtility and never had a prob ...
[12:27] <dieman> m_tthew: theres 73 people fighting over 55mbps
[12:28] <xTina> But it's definitely a DiskUtility bug in the first place, even if something should be wrong with the image, it's no reason to go crashing ...
[12:28] <azeem> gosh, the /. comments are really bad...
[12:28] <m_tthew> azeem: how unexpected
[12:29] <dieman> i wish i could push afull 100, but the box is only so fast :|
[12:29] <m_tthew> dieman: and you bounced my connection once, maybe during the thread increase restart? :)
[12:29] <dieman> m_tthew: yeah, sorry
[12:29] <dieman> not doing it again :)
[12:29] <m_tthew> dieman: :) wget -c is my friend
[12:29] <m_tthew> apachectl graceful :)
[12:29] <azeem> 30% "the website is down" 30% "who needs another distro?" 30% "What is this about, anyway?" 10% "D'oh" 
[12:29] <dilinger> ugh, ubuntu made slashdot?  that would explain why the page is so damned slow :/
[12:30] <jdub> seb128: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2004-September/000000.html
[12:30] <Md> I don't see much traffic on the ISO mirror
[12:30] <seb128> jdub: thanks
[12:32] <sivang> anyway peopole, better go get some sleep, have some physical life. this has been a wonderful time :)
[12:32] <sivang> night everybody!
[12:32] <xTina> Could someone please paste the URL for the PPC iso image? I'd like to include that in the bug report but can't reach the site at the moment.
[12:32] <Kosai> Oh, it hit slashdot.  Cool.
[12:33] <sivang> mako : night
[12:33] <jblack> xtina: the torrent is here: http://ftp3.linux.it/pub/mirrors/warty/warty-power pc.iso.torrent
[12:33] <xTina> jblack: I need the URL for the original ISO for the bug report with Apple.
[12:33] <mdz> xTina: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/
[12:33] <xTina> mdz: Ah, thanks.
[12:34] <mdz> dieman: pushing 55mbps from where?
[12:34] <m_tthew> unm.edu, iirc
[12:34] <dieman> the ftp server here at umn
[12:34] <dieman> not new mexico, minnesota. :)
[12:34] <dieman> m_tthew: s/unm/umn/
[12:35] <m_tthew> I should just cut all my fingers off, I'm terrible today
[12:35] <zack> wouldn't that make you even worse tomorrow?
[12:35] <mako> mjg59: yes, my debian-legal stole my dfsg shirt just arrived :)
[12:36] <m_tthew> zack: good point, but it least I could talk about my golden, younger days.
[12:38] <zack> heh
[12:38] <zack> plenty of time for that
[12:39] <dieman> mako: haha
[12:45] <mjg59> mako: Rock
[12:46] <edd> time to get some sleep. but happy sleep with my new warty install :) thanks everyone.
[12:47] <daniels> night edd
[12:49] <kfish> morning
[12:50] <daniels> kfish: 'morning
[12:53] <jblack> I have a screenshot of Debian+Ubuntu, if you guys get any questions about how well ubuntu works with Debian.
[12:54] <Kosai> jblack: Sure, post an URL.
[12:54] <jblack> http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~jblack/MixingUbuntuAndDebian.png
[12:55] <jblack> (its an unusual resolution because of the dual-head display stuff I'm doing)
[12:58] <Puumba> I've made the request to have an ubuntu mirror set up at http://mirror.csociety.org/ (Purdue)
[12:59] <kfish> daniels, dmesg doesn't report a synaptics, but X was configured for it -- but there's no module installed for it
[12:59] <Puumba> I'll look into ftp.cerias.purdue.edu tomorrow, since they're an official Debian mirror.
[01:00] <andred> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fBounties <-- That GNOME BT GUI comment is on the wrong line, right?
[01:02] <azeem> mako: btw, did you get my mail about the canonical contact in Munich?
[01:02] <daniels> kfish: hmm, so that shouldn't be doing any harm
[01:02] <daniels> kfish: maybe it does all that in the hardware then, and you explicitly have to turn it off
[01:03] <kfish> daniels, any idea how?
[01:03] <koke> hmmm, bounties :P
[01:03] <daniels> no clue, sorry
[01:03] <kfish> ok :)
[01:05] <TheUbu> wtf
[01:06] <koke> bye :)
[01:06] <mdz> andred: fixed
[01:06] <koke> cu tomorrow 
[01:06] <andred> mdz, thanks
[01:06] <TheUbu> you know
[01:06] <TheUbu> i dont know if i like the name
[01:07] <mdz> it grows on you
[01:07] <mako> azeem: yes.. this last week has been a little insane.. hopefully with the release out of the way i can catch up on email
[01:07] <mdz> ooobooontooo
[01:07] <mako> someone with a mic do a recording
[01:07] <mdz> andred: you aren't by any chance the same AndreD from FICS?
[01:07] <mako> i tried but my mic didn't work
[01:07] <dilinger> mdz: i hope you guys say it like that at company meetings and stuff
[01:07] <mdz> I have a truly shitty mic buried away somewhere
[01:08] <mdz> dilinger: oh yes.  there's a hand gesture too
[01:08] <Kosai> mdz: I think I saw someone from KGS here earlier.  Those crazy geeks.
[01:08] <dilinger> excellent
[01:08] <Kosai> (Kiseido Go Server.)
[01:08] <andred> mdz, Unfortunately not; I don't even know what FICS is:-)
[01:08] <TheUbu> no it doesnt
[01:08] <azeem> mako: sure. I didn't know much more than what I've rean on n-n-y.com though, so the mail is probably highly incoherent...
[01:08] <TheUbu> because
[01:08] <azeem> eh, s/rean/read/
[01:08] <TheUbu> it is so close to my name
[01:08] <mdz> andred: (chess server)
[01:08] <TheUbu> it is really bad
[01:08] <TheUbu> i'm gonna bring up trademark infringement
[01:08] <jdub> haha
[01:09] <daniels> mdz: and a dance, even
[01:09] <TheUbu> i have technology trademarks on ubu ubie and ubix
[01:10] <mdz> mako: wasn't there a character named Ubu in that book you were reading?
[01:10] <TheUbu> there is a character ubu
[01:10] <TheUbu> king Ubu actually
[01:14] <TheUbu> so whats up?
[01:15] <m_tthew> is it OOOOboonto or ooBOONto or ooboonTOO
[01:16] <andred> I got to give it to you guys that ubuntu sounds really promising. Like a GNOMEified Debian, and by that I don't mean just the desktop choice, but the Just Works mentality applied to Debian.
[01:16] <khalek> ewboomtwo
[01:16] <TheUbu> i really can't believe their is an os with such a similar name...
[01:16] <TheUbu> this is shocking
[01:19] <mjg59> Haha
[01:19] <mjg59> You haven't made Osnews yet
[01:19] <TheUbu> ubuntu?
[01:19] <daniels> khalek: having our os name start with 'ew' isn't so great ;)
[01:20] <RockMuncher> I'm not sure I understand Ubuntu's "raison-d'tre", could someone enlighten me?
[01:20] <azeem> http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=121980&cid=10260789
[01:20] <Kosai> I think it's got something to do with python and shininess.
[01:21] <TheUbu> i'm gonna have to fork this to kill it
[01:21] <TheUbu> call it Ubunut
[01:21] <mdz> RockMuncher: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/ has some starting points
[01:21] <mdz> andred: sounds like a compliment, thanks :-)
[01:22] <mdz> m_tthew: the second one (accent on the middle syllable)
[01:22] <mdz> we need to get a vorbis stream up
[01:23] <RockMuncher> mdz, that page doesn't give much information... nothing seems to set it apart from userlinux, mepis and co
[01:23] <dieman> 155 requests currently being processed, 26 idle workers
[01:23] <andred> My name is <someone> and I pronounce Ubuntu as <something>:-)
[01:23] <dieman> yeah, that machine is cookine
[01:23] <Puumba> This is Timon and Puumba, and we pronounce "ubuntu" as...
[01:23] <dieman> cooking
[01:23] <dieman> rather
[01:23] <TheUbu> how many ubu* operating systems can there be
[01:23] <m_tthew> I made an ogg, mdz can you tell me if I got it right
[01:23] <TheUbu> JUST 1 MINE
[01:24] <m_tthew> shit wait I did the wrong syllable
[01:24] <m_tthew> n/m
[01:25] <mdz> RockMuncher: that's a good idea; we should outline some of the comparisons and contrasts
[01:25] <mdz> m_tthew: that is approximately correct
[01:25] <defendguin> hmmm lots of people here already
[01:25] <TheUbu> unfortunately
[01:26] <defendguin> im curious as to the type of installer ubuntu uses
[01:26] <jdub> defendguin: it's a slicked-up debian-installer
[01:26] <TheUbu> don't people research names before they pick one?
[01:27] <Nafai> jdub: Text based or GTK?
[01:27] <defendguin> hmmm
[01:27] <mjg59> RockMuncher: It's got a larger number of people working on it than any other Debian-based distribution
[01:27] <jdub> Nafai: text
[01:27] <RockMuncher> I'm wondering what's the reason for Ubuntu's workforce to build their own distro instead of joining in on an existing project
[01:28] <mjg59> There's also the aim of working much more closely with Debian
[01:28] <jdub> RockMuncher: we're joining in on the debian project :-)
[01:28] <dieman> RockMuncher: changing debian within debian is hard.
[01:28] <mjg59> RockMuncher: Nobody outside Debian is going to turn Debian into something with a 6-month release cycle
[01:28] <dieman> RockMuncher: read the last three years of debian-devel. :)
[01:28] <mjg59> It's unlikely enough that anyone /inside/ Debian is going to turn Debian into something with a 6-month release cycle
[01:28] <RockMuncher> yeah, but I'm not talking about debian specifically
[01:29] <RockMuncher> some debian based distros are already trying to clean up its act
[01:29] <mjg59> So effectively it turns into "Why a new Debian-based distribution rather than working with a current one"
[01:29] <mjg59> Mepis, Xandros and Linspire all want to make money
[01:29] <mjg59> So they're not good starting points
[01:29] <mjg59> Userlinux involves Bruce Perens, which is a pretty good incentive to work separately
[01:30] <Puumba> jdub and others are involved - it has to rock
[01:30] <mjg59> (Note that this is all just my personal opinion - I'm not involved with Ubuntu)
[01:30] <dieman> (ditto, im not with ubuntu or canonical software)
[01:30] <dieman> (i just host a mirror server)
[01:30] <AndyFitz> in synaptic:\
[01:30] <AndyFitz> URI:  http://ftp.no-name-yet.comno-name-yet/
[01:30] <AndyFitz> Distribution: warty
[01:30] <AndyFitz> Section(S): universe
[01:31] <AndyFitz> doesn't seem to work
[01:31] <dieman> heh
[01:31] <mjg59> AndyFitz: The URI is wrong
[01:31] <elmo_> AndyFitz: you're missing a /
[01:31] <RockMuncher> so there isn't yet a (free) group which is working on debian the way you guys are?
[01:31] <elmo_> AndyFitz: and use http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu now
[01:31] <phlaegel> hm, just finished installing ubuntu, and it looks great so far. one question: shouldn't the smooth gtk2 engine be installed by default, since glider is in gnome-themes?
[01:31] <mjg59> RockMuncher: There is no entirely free Debian-based distribution that's intended as a general-purpose system and which doesn't have Bruce Perens, no
[01:32] <AndyFitz> :) too easy
[01:32] <azeem> mjg59: linex?
[01:32] <RockMuncher> lol, mjg59, Bruce Peren : is he that bad? :) (jus askin, I dunno)
[01:32] <jdub> RockMuncher: ubuntu is a free software project too, though
[01:33] <azeem> though entirely free debian-based distros tend to either merge with Debian or be forgotten I guess
[01:33] <mjg59> RockMuncher: I got on with him fine in person, and he may well be better than he was back in the Debian days, but he has a legendarily bad reputation for ease of cooperation
[01:33] <RockMuncher> jdub, yes I know. that's really cool
[01:34] <xTina> Hm. No DNS for me :(
[01:36] <defendguin> jdub, how slicked up?
[01:37] <RockMuncher> And how about Canonical Ltd? What's its mission statement/target group/source of revenue?
[01:37] <m_tthew> defendguin: from my installation experiences, just enough and not too much
[01:37] <arachne> hi
[01:37] <Gman> congrats on the release all
[01:38] <defendguin> its not graphical im guessing
[01:38] <Gman> looks very sexy
[01:38] <jdub> defendguin: simplified a fair bit, lots of performance improvments, etc. :-)
[01:38] <defendguin> decent hardware detection?
[01:38] <jdub> defendguin: no, the graphical installer will be coming in our second release
[01:38] <jdub> oh man
[01:38] <jdub> hardware detection is rad
[01:38] <jdub> especially autoconfiguration of X
[01:39] <defendguin> thats all i needed to hear
[01:39] <daniels> i hear the x detection is sensational
[01:39] <defendguin> :-D
[01:39] <AndyFitz> ubuntu is the most shiny debian distro  hehe  ;)
[01:39] <defendguin> AndyFitz, did you get them to include your icon theme?
[01:39] <AndyFitz> in the words of a poorly translated mario sunshine  " shine-get upgrade * "
[01:39] <arachne> what aboutknoppix ?
[01:39] <mdz> RockMuncher: www.canonical.com should answer the first question
[01:40] <jdub> defendguin: AndyFitz's theme is in progress (check out the Human icon theme after you install)
[01:40] <AndyFitz> defendguin: im doing a new one for ubuntu
[01:40] <defendguin> where does nice
[01:40] <defendguin> whoops
[01:40] <defendguin> what about nvidia driver for x?
[01:41] <defendguin> they have it in apt?
[01:41] <mdz> defendguin: apt-gettable
[01:41] <defendguin> good deal
[01:41] <mdz> both kernel and userland
[01:41] <Puumba> Is it possible that things like java and acroread could be put in either restricted or universe?
[01:41] <mdz> apt-cache search nvidia should get you what you need
[01:41] <RockMuncher> mdz, so revenue should stem from services? there's some tough competition going on there
[01:41] <Puumba> Maybe spice?
[01:41] <mdz> Puumba: java is a complicated issue due to its licensing
[01:41] <defendguin> AndyFitz, got any SS of the new theme?
[01:42] <mdz> it's more than just not open source
[01:42] <AndyFitz> i'll upload one now
[01:42] <mdz> RockMuncher: we do intend to provide services, yes
[01:42] <Puumba> mdz: Okay.  It seems that ubuntu is a little less zealous than Debian (e.g. inclusion of binary drivers)
[01:43] <mdz> Md: I inferred this from your comments on mailing lists :-)
[01:43] <Puumba> So I was curious about the policy about things such as java, etc.
[01:43] <mdz> Puumba: acroread may be a possibility; at one point it was distributed in Debian non-free
[01:43] <whiprush> time for ubuntu-legal.
[01:44] <mdz> I am not sure whether it was removed for licensing reasons or something else
[01:44] <Kosai> whiprush: That sounds like a great idea.  (Because it gives sane people somewhere to unsubscribe from.)
[01:44] <Puumba> Yes, I still get it from marillat.
[01:44] <Md> mdz: because the stupid license forbids fixing some security bugs
[01:44] <daniels> debian-legal has only shown that people in groups can be stupid, not that the whole idea of having people with legal smarts together on one list is bad
[01:44] <Md> I don't think that acroread is important, anyway...
[01:44] <mdz> Md: oh, yes, I remember now
[01:45] <Puumba> I agree, there are good alternatives to acroread
[01:45] <mdz> Md: no, the free alternatives are getting quite good
[01:45] <Md> BTW, did you already talk about patented or possibly patented stuff like LAME and some video codecs?
[01:45] <Md> .oO(mplayer...)
[01:45] <Puumba> That's the other issue I was curious about - DVD playback.
[01:46] <Md> there is no free PDF plugin for mozilla, but OTOH the acrobat one sucks so much that I have to disable it or it tends to kill galeon half the times
[01:47] <andred> "Menu layout: remove Debian menu? [Done] " -- Amen!
[01:47] <jdub> ;-)
[01:47] <n3x4> does ubuntu use .deb's ?
[01:47] <jdub> Md: yeah, so hopefully we'll be shipping gpdf by default in Hoary, with mozilla plugin goodness.
[01:47] <jdub> n3x4: yes!
[01:48] <n3x4> jdub: ok thanks
[01:48] <jdub> n3x4: ubuntu is based on debian sid
[01:48] <defendguin> ubuntu doesnt include x.org 6.8 does it?
[01:48] <Md> jdub: is it in gnome 2.8? I haven't seen it yet
[01:48] <AndyFitz> its xfree atm
[01:48] <azeem> will this be true for warty only, or will you resync with sid for the next release again?
[01:48] <AndyFitz> then x.org for next release i think
[01:49] <mdz> defendguin: not for the Warty release, but our development branch will be moving to x.org very very soon
[01:49] <sladen> defendguin: no, that will in in the next (April 2005) release
[01:49] <crimsun> sanitized XFree86 4_3 branch
[01:50] <jdub> Md: gpdf is in gnome 2.8, but isn't in ubuntu's main component - you can install it from universe
[01:50] <guestish> hi
[01:50] <jdub> azeem: in the next few weeks, our development branch will open, and all the debian sid love will flow into it :-)
[01:50] <guestish> so, whats the story w/ ubuntu? :)
[01:51] <azeem> jdub: rad
[01:51] <mdz> Puumba: re: DVD, xine is available in universe
[01:51] <Puumba> jdub: There are two main mirroring organization here at Purdue (csociety.org and cerias).  ftp.cerias.purdue.edu is an official debian mirror.  Would that be the preferred choice if we have to choose only 1?
[01:51] <jdub> azeem: it really is six monthly time based releases of sid :-)
[01:51] <guestish> does it use the debian repositories or its own?
[01:52] <mdz> Md: regarding patents, the universe is a big place...:-)
[01:52] <jdub> Puumba: hrm, probably a choice for the mirror maintainer
[01:52] <mdz> guestish: our own
[01:52] <guestish> mdz: how does it work?
[01:52] <Puumba> mdz: I'm not up-to-date on the css issues.
[01:53] <mdz> guestish: which part of it?
[01:53] <daniels> the current xfree86 4.3 packages have something like 250,000+ lines of patches applied
[01:53] <guestish> well, how do you get packages, how advanced is the installer? etc
[01:53] <mdz> guestish: we have our own infrastructure for building and distributing Ubuntu
[01:54] <whiprush> so this -devel branch, it'll be like sid for ubuntu then. does it have a cool nickname or just -devel?
[01:54] <mdz> guestish: you get packages using apt and its frontends, generally
[01:54] <guestish> mdz: and the packages dont come from debian?
[01:54] <Puumba> jdub: I've contacted both, but they may like to host mutually exclusive archives.  I'll wait and see how they respond.
[01:54] <mdz> guestish: much of the source code has come from Debian
[01:55] <mdz> whiprush: Hoary Hedgehog :-)
[01:55] <guestish> cool
[01:55] <whiprush> ah
[01:55] <guestish> got any screenshots?
[01:55] <blah09> evenin
[01:55] <mdz> guestish: hmm, I'm not sure that we do
[01:55] <mdz> jdub: screenshots?
[01:56] <defendguin> hey are you guys using the gnomeized version of ooo?
[01:56] <guestish> :)
[01:56] <guestish> mdz: well i suppose linux always looks the same
[01:56] <azeem> defendguin: haggai is around, so I guess yes
[01:56] <jblack> I have a screenshot of a hybrid ubuntu/debian system.
[01:56] <blah09> does this come with an installer?
[01:56] <defendguin> azeem, sweet
[01:56] <mdz> guestish: actually it is quite distinctive at the moment :-)
[01:57] <mdz> blah09: yes
[01:57] <guestish> mdz: eh? what desktop?
[01:57] <mdz> guestish: GNOME 2.8
[01:57] <blah09> sarge's?
[01:57] <guestish> mdz: dcc me over a screenshot :)
[01:57] <mdz> I'll put one up somewhere for everyone
[01:57] <whiprush> it's like sarge's but doesn't ask as many questions
[01:57] <blah09> ah ok =)
[01:57] <daniels> (note that Hoary isn't a nickname for our development branch in perpetuity, a la sid; it's the name of our next release)
[01:58] <guestish> sarge's asks very few questions
[01:58] <whiprush> daniels: yeah I figured that
[01:58] <andred> guestish, It asks some stuff that normal people have no clue about.
[01:58] <guestish> what does canonical do?
[01:58] <guestish> andred: hrm, like what?
[01:58] <mdz> guestish: Canonical Ltd. is committed to the development, distribution and promotion of open source software products, and to providing tools and support to the open source community.
[01:59] <mlh> fund ubuntu and gnu-arch mostly i gather
[01:59] <guestish> mdz: but hwo does it make money?
[01:59] <guestish> mdz: support contracts?
[01:59] <andred> guestish, Well, quite a number of the questions. I can't remember them specifically. The grub bootloader thing is perhaps scary for people.
[01:59] <mlh> it doesn't yet :-)
[01:59] <guestish> andred: oh, i've only used the installer for sparc, and it has very few prompts
[02:00] <whiprush> andred: the MTA question is one.
[02:00] <guestish> friggin ooo, wont open
[02:00] <andred> whiprush, Right, and I'm glad they've decided on just using local delivery by default instead of asking for that.
[02:00] <whiprush> also the sudo thing
[02:01] <guestish> mlh: lol, you serious?
[02:01] <Ritalin> hi
[02:02] <mlh> guestish, about what?  they certainly intend to make money -- but since they only decloaked yesterday it 's not surprising if they're not making money yet
[02:03] <guestish> mlh: oh
[02:03] <Ritalin> im downloading it now
[02:03] <guestish> mlh: im just courious as to how they are going to
[02:03] <Ritalin> looks neat
[02:03] <mdz> by popular demand: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-screenshots/
[02:04] <mlh> guestish, yeah me too :-).  i wish them luck though. it has a good philosophy behind it
[02:04] <jdub> mdz: shit man, we didn't do screenshots!
[02:04] <jdub> mdz: d'oh!
[02:04] <Castr0> wow it looks jus tlike gnome ;-)
[02:04] <blah09> looks like my libranet desktop =D
[02:04] <mdz> jdub: yeah, why didn't YOU think of it? :-)
[02:04] <guestish> mlh: sure :)
[02:04] <mdz> if you look closely, you can spot a few key differences :-)
[02:05] <whiprush> why did no one think of a trash applet before. I can't go back now
[02:05] <daniels> (for one, 90% of the screen)
[02:05] <blah09> is that wifi thing new?
[02:05] <mlh> mdz,jdub you might want to redirects from the .com :-) (currently holding page)
[02:05] <whiprush> that's different icons on the existing wifi applet.
[02:05] <guestish> sounds like this is a relatively new project
[02:05] <guestish> :)
[02:05] <phlaegel> so what's with the obsessively empty desktop?
[02:05] <andred> I hope the Trash applet will work for all sorts of delete operations in the future, not just for Nautilus delets. That would be cool.
[02:06] <whiprush> andred: I alias my rm to just mv to ~.Trash
[02:06] <blah09> probably cleaned up for the shot ;)
[02:06] <phlaegel> blah09: nope, the default install is like that
[02:06] <andred> whiprush, I didn't mean like that. I meant stuff like removing bookmarks by dragging them to the Trash applets. Stuff like that.
[02:06] <jdub> andred: yeah, that's the intention
[02:06] <whiprush> oh oh
[02:07] <blah09> thats cool, i like to clutter my desktop on my own
[02:07] <jdub> blah09: your desktop is yours! ALL YOURS!
[02:07] <blah09> w00t
[02:07] <Puumba> As far as improved laptop support, does that include software suspend?
[02:07] <whiprush> any hopes of getting the official firefox logo? </nitpick>
[02:08] <mdz> jdub: I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use the gnome screenshot tool to get a snaphsot while of a menu open :-)
[02:08] <andred> whiprush, Third-party distributors can't use it, so I guess not.
[02:08] <phlaegel> is there some reasoning behind it being completely empty though? 
[02:08] <Gman> mdz, at the commandline, use --delay=N
[02:08] <mdz> phlaegel: ever notice how when you want to get to something on the desktop, there are always windows in the way? ;-)
[02:09] <jdub> mdz: you can run it from the command line wth a timeout
[02:09] <phlaegel> mdz: good point
[02:09] <mdz> Puumba: not by default, no; there are too many laptops which don't wake up if sent into software suspend
[02:09] <phlaegel> I suppose it fits better with desktop as homedir as well, which is my preference
[02:09] <j^> mdz just use the keyborad shortcut for screenshots
[02:09] <Puumba> Puumba: no problem.  Just curious.
[02:09] <andred> Oh my, a "Computer" menu. I wonder what that reveals.
[02:10] <Puumba> Well, good night all.
[02:10] <whiprush> andred: lots of stuff that was on the desktop before.
[02:10] <andred> whiprush, Aha
[02:10] <whiprush> i'll screenie it
[02:11] <andred> thanks
[02:11] <guestish> so, where are they?
[02:11] <mdz> jdub: what's the name of the program?
[02:12] <mdz> guestish: where are who?
[02:12] <guestish> mdz: screenies :)
[02:12] <jdub> gnome-panel-sc<tab><tab> ?
[02:12] <mdz> guestish: I put one up
[02:12] <mdz> ah, -panel-
[02:13] <jdub> ah yeah, gnome-panel-screenshot
[02:13] <blah09> ^^ up there somewhere
[02:13] <guestish> mdz: where?
[02:13] <guestish> i dont see any links
[02:13] <guestish> oh, i see it
[02:13] <guestish> wow...its uh,..barren
[02:13] <guestish> :)
[02:14] <mdz> it's clean and delicious
[02:14] <guestish> cool
[02:14] <whiprush> http://www.arslinux.com/~jorge/screenshots/ubuntu_computer_menu.png
[02:14] <guestish> looks like a pretty standard 2.8 desktop to me
[02:14] <defendguin> mmmm nice
[02:15] <andred> whiprush, The "Desktop" entry is the "Show desktop" button?
[02:15] <defendguin> ubuntu going for lsb certification?
[02:15] <whiprush> it opens an empty window to ~/Desktop
[02:16] <guestish> mdz: laptop?
[02:16] <andred> whiprush, Hmm, ok. Why? Shouldn't meople learn to just drag stuff to the desktop if they want stuff there?
[02:16] <mdz> guestish: those shots are from my laptop, yes
[02:16] <whiprush> dunno, I'm new to this too.
[02:17] <whiprush> although I expect some things are still rough.
[02:17] <guestish> mdz: nice
[02:17] <whiprush> for a while I had my home directory on the panel and thought that was like that on purpose.
[02:17] <mdz> those of you with centrino laptops will appreciate driver support for the intel onboard wireless out of the box
[02:17] <defendguin> wow nice
[02:17] <mauriz> sounds great
[02:17] <whiprush> mine speedsteps too, the applet worked out of the box, that was cool
[02:18] <mauriz> what about atmel?
[02:18] <mdz> mauriz: likewise
[02:18] <mauriz> :)
[02:18] <mdz> hmm, actually it's apt-gettable
[02:18] <guestish>  i didnt know the linux kernel had support for wireless
[02:18] <mdz> atheros/madwifi is there by default
[02:18] <mdz> atmel the driver is there by default, but you need to apt-get the firmware
[02:19] <mauriz> cool
[02:19] <blah09> mdz: great news about the centrino =)
[02:19] <guestish> sweet
[02:19] <mdz> mauriz: hmm, I was right the first time. the firmware is there by default; atmel should work out of the box
[02:19] <mdz> as well as intel/centrino and atheros/madwifi
[02:20] <andred> Really, having "Desktop" on the menu seams weird. I don't think people should have to think about the "Desktop" as a folder.
[02:20] <mauriz> great :D
[02:20] <daniels> for those of you who need ndiswrapper, packages are expected to be available today
[02:20] <schweeb> guestish: the linux kernel has had support for wireless for a long time
[02:20] <guestish> schweeb: oh
[02:20] <phlaegel> andred: that's one reason I like the desktop being the home dir
[02:20] <guestish> never needed to use it
[02:21] <mdz> daniels: EVIL
[02:21] <sabdfl> andred: it lets you move stuff to the desktop even if you have apps that obscure it
[02:21] <mdz> workrave hates me, back in 10
[02:21] <jdub> wow, everyone's raving about the bittorrent feed :)
[02:22] <daniels> mdz: hey man, I like working wireless
[02:22] <andred> sabdfl, That's true.
[02:22] <xTina> I just installed Ubuntu on my iBook. It's looks really cool ... but I have the following on my list that does not work: DNS (I get my IP successfully via DHCP), getting an error message on login because of wrong permissions on /dev/pmu and I cannot play sound because "/dev/dsp already in use by another application". Other than that, it's fantastic so far :)
[02:22] <daniels> jdub: yeah, fooishbar's been pushing 1.1MB/sec for the last 12 hours (except for the 15min window where it died for no apparent reason -- huzzah)
[02:22] <ircrob> does it use xorg ?
[02:22] <schweeb> xTina: check /etc/resolv.conf real quick
[02:22] <xTina> schweeb: empty
[02:23] <crimsun> no, sanitized XFree86, ircrob 
[02:23] <schweeb> xtina: dhclient script must be broke
[02:23] <daniels> ircrob: currently it uses XFree86 4.3 with a mountain of patches, but the development branch will be brought up-to-date with X.Org's X11R6.8.1
[02:23] <xTina> schweeb: I guessed so.
[02:23] <sabdfl> xTina: does your dhcp server normally set the dns correctly on other OS's?
[02:23] <xTina> schweeb: Rebooting back into Ubuntu right now, I'll investigate further ... I just wanted to see if my OS X install has survived :)
[02:24] <xTina> sabdfl: Yes.
[02:24] <schweeb> xTina: heh
[02:24] <m_tthew> xTina: does warty share a drive with OSX on that machine? (if so, how did that go?)
[02:24] <schweeb> xTina: look for lines with "nameserver" in /etc/dhclient-script
[02:25] <schweeb> if you know enough about shell scripting to troubleshoot it, that is
[02:25] <xTina> schweeb: I do.
[02:25] <Gman> daniels, what happened with that release? is it out or not?
[02:25] <schweeb> xTina: actually, mine's working, if you put yours up somewhere, I can do a diff real quick (I doubt the script is different between platforms)
[02:26] <defendguin> ubantu have a symbol yet?
[02:26] <defendguin> that little circle deal?
[02:26] <xTina> m_tthew: I originally had 2 installations of OS X on that drive, one partition for each. Deleted one of them during the manual partition step and created a root filesystem (ext3), a swap partition and a new world boot loader partition on the freed space. That was all.
[02:26] <xTina> I'm really fascinated :)
[02:26] <m_tthew> xTina: thanks
[02:27] <m_tthew> xTina: yeah, nice, isn't it?
[02:27] <xTina> Yepp. Very nice.
[02:27] <daniels> Gman: someone over at X.Org had a head explosion, I think
[02:29] <daniels> Gman: it's up right now
[02:29] <Gman> daniels, heh
[02:29] <whiprush> is this pmount the prefered way or fstab-sync, wrt hal?
[02:30] <defendguin> hmmm i might have to install this along side my fedora core 2 install
[02:33] <xTina> schweeb: what's the md5sum on your script?
[02:33] <schweeb> 754f7b5c3bba1bf519b50b52e110c63e  /etc/dhclient-script
[02:33] <xTina> different.
[02:33] <xTina> ok, I'll copy mine somewhere
[02:35] <TheUbu> bah
[02:35] <schweeb> I'll do a diff and post it... any special options you want on the diff?  I don't do diffs often, so I forget the options, heh
[02:35] <TheUbu> change the name
[02:35] <m_tthew> -u
[02:36] <gose> is the install the same as debian's or anyone have screenshots of it?
[02:36] <TheUbu> yeah take a few u-out
[02:37] <xTina> http://tuxtina.de/tmp/dhclient-script
[02:37] <xTina> gose: The same, it's just less chatty ;)
[02:37] <jdub> http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-screenshots/
[02:37] <jdub> oh sorry
[02:37] <jdub> installer ;)
[02:38] <defendguin> not one icon on the desktop?
[02:38] <tabo> i'm currently downloading ubuntu, where can i see the list of packages?
[02:39] <tabo> or a repository
[02:39] <tabo> oh, nevermind, in the wiki
[02:40] <jdub> defendguin: none! :)
[02:40] <gose> is floppy net install supported?  it doesn't look like it
[02:41] <robertj> Why is floppy net install a big deal?
[02:41] <whiprush> is usplash the bootsplash.org stuff or something different?
[02:41] <jdub> whiprush: different, and really cool ;)
[02:41] <jdub> whiprush: totally out of the kernel, not horribly hackish
[02:41] <whiprush> is there a url? I can't find jack on google about it
[02:42] <robertj> heya jdub, do you know what the big differences are between userlinux and ubuntu?
[02:42] <jdub> robertj: in terms of direction or what we include?
[02:42] <robertj> both I guess
[02:42] <jdub> well, we are doing six month time-based releases from sid
[02:42] <schweeb> xTina: bbl... put mine up instead of diffing it.... http://schweeb.org/~chris/dhclient-script
[02:42] <jdub> that's just part of the deal
[02:43] <jdub> in terms of what we include in the current releases, userlinux is based on sarge
[02:43] <robertj> sid or testing?
[02:43] <jdub> ubuntu is based on sid + gnome 2.8 and stuff
[02:43] <jdub> :-)
[02:43] <xTina> schweeb: Now that's a very different script ;)
[02:43] <jdub> robertj: sid!
[02:43] <xTina> Interesting ...
[02:43] <npx> Can I install ubuntu using debootstrap?
[02:43] <whiprush> I tried UL, the installer is almost identical to sarge's, except you can do "home pc, server, something" in the beginning
[02:44] <robertj> userlinux still asks way to many questions
[02:45] <robertj> I couldn't believe there was a MTA config prompt still there
[02:45] <whiprush> yes, that's the worse one
[02:45] <whiprush> the HP-specific choice always makes me chuckle.
[02:46] <peacemaker885> installing warty, noticed that its downloading and installing everything (X11 and all)..did I miss something or is this by design.  I just wanted a 'base install'
[02:46] <robertj> I need to install warty. Hrmmm
[02:46] <jdub> peacemaker885: if you just want to do a base/custom install (not the whole desktop), type 'custom' in at the install boot prompt
[02:47] <peacemaker885> jdub: thanks!
[02:47] <schweeb> xTina: that's likely from Sid
[02:47] <xTina> Alright, with the new script, everything works fine.
[02:47] <xTina> Thanks.
[02:48] <schweeb> robertj: doesn't userlinux just install pkgs right from debian sources? it used to just be a virtual package
[02:48] <robertj> not sure
[02:48] <robertj> I've been playing with fedora lately and using OS X
[02:48] <schweeb> which would mean it will always give the MTA choice
[02:49] <robertj> using OS X is a great experience, just because its a different approach
[02:49] <schweeb> not a big fan myself
[02:49] <whiprush> nor me
[02:50] <robertj> It's wonderful. Directory services are great on OS X
[02:50] <whiprush> although ... ubuntu/ppc on a 15" powerbook might be nice.
[02:50] <schweeb> whiprush: or in proper engrish, "nor I" :P
[02:50] <whiprush> heh
[02:50] <schweeb> more than enough directory services for me
[02:51] <robertj> schweeb: well its real easy to set up your box to auth off of two openldap servers, an ad tree, and local
[02:51] <robertj> also you can configure preferences for your client machines via openldap extensions
[02:52] <robertj> the big downside is rolling adduser scripts for OS X server is no trivial task
[02:52] <schweeb> easily implemented on linux
[02:52] <mauriz> by the way, what would be minimum hardware requirement?
[02:52] <robertj> schweeb: but already implemented on OS X
[02:53] <whiprush> ctrl +/- for font zoom broken in epiphany for anyone else?
[02:53] <sladen> mauriz: Ubuntu runs sweetest on nice recent laptops.  There isn't really a minimum requirement, but it's not going to be fun if you choose an old machine!
[02:54] <sladen> mauriz: Stick it on a machine that you'd use to test a new version of Window, or Doom3 on---you'll have the most fun with Ubuntu that way
[02:54] <mauriz> i don't have such machine
[02:54] <robertj> i'm not seeing a net install disk on this mirror, am I missing something?
[02:55] <sladen> whiprush: usplash is completely separate and makes people drool---sadly it's not in Warty so you'll have to hang on for another six months
[02:55] <whiprush> sladen: yeah I just can't find any info on it anywhere.
[02:55] <whiprush> But I'll take your word for it
[02:55] <sladen> whiprush: if you search around the web for "Mad Phat Splash", you'll find a couple of people who've blogged about it
[02:55] <daniels> "mad phat startup"
[02:56] <schweeb> even better would be uber fast init so you don't have to sit and look at a bootsplash for long :p
[02:56] <sladen> schweeb: you ain't seen nothing yet ;-)
[02:56] <whiprush> oh I see, along with Totally Rad Laptop Support.
[02:57] <daniels> whiprush: right
[02:57] <whiprush> Man, you guys must drink alot. I salute you.
[02:57] <schweeb> sladen: considering doing an init with dependencies
[02:57] <schweeb> ?
[02:57] <schweeb> 20:57 < schweeb> ?
[02:57] <schweeb>  [20:57]  [schweeb(+i)]  [4:#ubuntu(+ns)]                                          
[02:57] <schweeb> [#ubuntu]  
[02:57] <schweeb> shit
[02:57] <schweeb> sorry :-/
[02:58] <robertj> What exactly does Mad Phat startup entail?
[02:59] <jdub> robertj: nice, pretty, useful startup information
[02:59] <jdub> robertj: without ugly kernel patches and so on
[02:59] <robertj> so like, a background on the terminal ;)
[02:59] <jdub> heh, nah, cooler
[02:59] <jdub> there'll be stuff in our devel repo when we branch
[03:00] <robertj> I really like Fedora's except for the fact that you still get dumped to the black screen for a while in between the boot loader and the minaturized X-thingymajigger
[03:00] <robertj> it reminds me of watching Windows 3.1 and 95 boot ;)
[03:01] <daniels> it's really incredibly difficult to get a splash that early, though
[03:01] <robertj> yeah, I know
[03:02] <robertj> But doable apparently, but I don't know what impact that would have on legacy hardware
[03:02] <Md> hardware is not the problem
[03:02] <Md> it's painful anyway
[03:02] <whiprush> oh, no printer here but I have to ask, Xprint for firefox?
[03:03] <robertj> If your bootloader can have a background image, why can't the kernel itself?
[03:03] <m_tthew> maurix: I ran warty fine on an older pII with 256M of RAM
[03:04] <defendguin> jdub, im gonna miss my home icon :(  is this a gnome thing or is it a ubuntu thing?
[03:05] <jdub> defendguin: ubuntu
[03:05] <defendguin> ahh
[03:05] <defendguin> why did you make that decision?
[03:05] <jdub> defendguin: you can turn the desktop icons back on in gconf-editor (under /apps/nautilus) if you want to
[03:05] <xTina> So, the i386 install asks for an "installation type"? Or did I get that wrong?
[03:05] <jdub> defendguin: you have full access in the computer menu
[03:06] <jdub> defendguin: in normal operation, you can't get to your desktop behind your current work ;)
[03:06] <defendguin> yeah i suppose so
[03:06] <robertj> jdub: another thing I have learned as an OS X admin is that anyone who saves anything to the desktop without prompting should be shot
[03:06] <schweeb> yea, I use fluxbox, and I don't even notice not having desktop icons
[03:07] <joh_> hi
[03:07] <joh_> hmm, what is the default root password?
[03:07] <schweeb> nothing
[03:07] <Hrdwr_BoB> there isn't one
[03:07] <Hrdwr_BoB> sudo passwd
[03:07] <schweeb> there is no root
[03:07] <robertj> jdub: at any given time I have like 30 random .pdfs on my Desktop (sure they could be in ~/tmp or whatever) but they are just pointless clutter
[03:07] <Hrdwr_BoB> but you should just use sudo
[03:08] <robertj> is there really no root account?
[03:08] <joh_> there is no root?
[03:08] <defendguin> jdub, the computer menu will include things liek remote fiele systems like an ftp or ssh volume?
[03:08] <whiprush> your user account uses sudo to do stuff
[03:08] <Hrdwr_BoB> root is there, however you should not need to use it because you have full sudo access
[03:08] <whiprush> so, sudo apt-get update
[03:08] <schweeb> I think the passwd file still has a user
[03:08] <whiprush> or whatever
[03:08] <robertj> well that's quite different from there being no root
[03:08] <jdub> defendguin: in the future, yeah
[03:08] <schweeb> it's like a daemon user, you'll never need to actually be that user
[03:08] <Hrdwr_BoB> there is no root in that you should never login as root
[03:08] <jdub> defendguin: but see 'disks' and 'network' in the ocmputer menu
[03:09] <defendguin> yeah
[03:09] <joh_> I really like this thing :)
[03:09] <jdub> schweeb: the root account is disabled, but still exists (it has to)
[03:09] <schweeb> jdub: right, for file ownership and such
[03:09] <sabdfl> night all
[03:09] <schweeb> the nameservices stuff
[03:09] <azeem> jdub: so how are you using sudo to run the admin stuff?
[03:10] <azeem> just hacked sudo in front of the commands in the .desktop files?
[03:10] <schweeb> yea, I'm curious as to how much hacking it took to make the admin tools use sudo
[03:10] <jdub> azeem: gksudo
[03:10] <jdub> schweeb: not much
[03:10] <jmullman> :)
[03:11] <schweeb> ah, never even heard of gksudo, heh
[03:11] <whiprush> an selinux plans? Or am I looking in the wrong place in the wiki?
[03:11] <azeem> jdub: is that an ubuntu thingy, or from elsewhere?
[03:12] <schweeb> jdub: so pretty much just a change in reference to gksudo from gksu
[03:12] <jdub> azeem: it's part of gksu
[03:12] <joh_> Anyone successfully used ipw2200? My computer stopped responding when loading the driver
[03:12] <azeem> oh, hmm
[03:12] <jdub> schweeb: and extra work elsewhere to make it all work properly, yeah
[03:13] <mdz> joh_: yes, it's working well for me
[03:13] <sladen> robertj: Xandros, for instance use VGA hacks and have the boot-loader directly program the VGA card;  then have their SplashFX patch continue with the same direct VGA hacks
[03:13] <mdz> joh_: the driver is relatively new, though
[03:13] <joh_> mdz, strange
[03:13] <sladen> robertj: usplash gets a framebuffer loaded real quick(tm), in initrd, and then everything is cross platform---it's just a framebuffer
[03:14] <joh_> It worked for me in debian sarge, is it the latest version? 0.7?
[03:14] <whiprush> bed for me, nite folks. Great job guys, I'm loving it so far, can't wait to see where this goes.
[03:14] <mako> from /.: The closest distro to Ubuntu is probably Bruce Perens's UserLinux project. But UserLinux is focused squarely upon business, whilst Ubuntu seems to be more focused on individual users.
[03:14] <mdz> joh_: yes, it's 0.7
[03:14] <mako> i think that's REALLY funny :)
[03:14] <mdz> hehe
[03:14] <schweeb> hah
[03:14] <m_tthew> xTina: ping
[03:14] <mdz> whiprush: thanks, good night
[03:14] <mako> very true :)
[03:14] <xTina> m_tthew: pong?
[03:14] <xTina> Did I miss something? ;)
[03:15] <m_tthew> xTina: powerpc image crashes disk utility here, too, soon as I load it.
[03:15] <xTina> Ah, alright.
[03:15] <utta> During install, did you receive a prompt to set up the root password?
[03:15] <xTina> utta: No.
[03:15] <m_tthew> xTina: yeah, completely tanks as soon as I load the iso
[03:15] <sladen> mako: did you read the bit `` This might appear credible to me if I weren't more familiar with linux. Either it's a joke, or it's astroturfing. [..] ''
[03:16] <Hrdwr_BoB> utta, that's notabug
[03:16] <utta> xTina, thanks. Ok, so where do we setup/change the root password
[03:16] <sladen> utta: Ubuntu uses sudo;  type   sudo command line to run as root
[03:16] <mako> sladen: yeah, i think that's in reference to another now scored down comment though
[03:16] <Hrdwr_BoB> eg: sudo apt-get update
[03:16] <mako> sladen: i remember reading it
[03:16] <Hrdwr_BoB> sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list
[03:17] <xTina> Hm. No ppc packages available anywhere?
[03:17] <joh_> sudo bash ... ahhhh >(
[03:17] <sladen> utta: you'll then be prompted for your own password
[03:17] <joh_> :)
[03:17] <m_tthew> utta: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.5722653677/faq_view
[03:17] <Hrdwr_BoB> sudo bash is not necessary though
[03:17] <sladen> joh_: mmmm.  Well that defeats all the security and accountability of using sudo
[03:18] <lupusBE> which Xorg version is ubuntu using?
[03:18] <joh_> I know, I know. old habbit...
[03:18] <schweeb> it uses XFree 4.3, afaik
[03:18] <jdub> lupusBE: 4.3 + patches
[03:18] <sladen> joh_: if you really feel the need, you could do   sudo passwd   and set a root password.
[03:18] <jdub> lupusBE: X.org coming in our next release :)
[03:18] <utta> m_tthew, Thanks
[03:18] <azeem> does Eugenia like browsing folders, or does ubuntu not use spatial nautilus by default?
[03:18] <robertj> sladen: how quick is that real quick?
[03:18] <utta> Hrdwr_BoB, Thanks
[03:18] <joh_> sladen, thanks, but I think I like it as it is
[03:19] <utta> xTina, Thanks
[03:19] <lupusBE> your waiting for debrix?
[03:19] <janm> hello
[03:19] <sladen> robertj: can you hang around until April?  ;-)
[03:20] <jdub> you'll see it way before april though
[03:20] <defendguin> im guessing indubstrial is the default there?
[03:20] <jdub> because it'll be in our devel branch soon
[03:20] <robertj> but seriously, is it like a split second or is it a noticible delay
[03:20] <jdub> defendguin: it's based on indubstrial, yes
[03:20] <xTina> So what repository should I use for the PPC version?
[03:26] <joh_> by default, there is no icons on the desktop_
[03:26] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> mobutu linux!!!
[03:26] <joh_> ?
[03:26] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> ojo olomfobre oagadugu mobutu linux
[03:26] <Hrdwr_BoB> in english?
[03:27] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> inside joke
[03:27] <xTina> Oh, it's working now. Never mind.
[03:27] <schweeb> a legible nick would be nice
[03:27] <schweeb> heh
[03:27] <jmullman> i see that nick and think "Hut, hut!"
[03:28] <jmullman> blue 32! blue 32! Hut hut!
[03:29] <\2\34\2\234\\23\> how can i bring humanity to others
[03:29] <mako> amu says he can't find the pubkey that signed the release file
[03:29] <mako> is this for elmo?
[03:30] <jsubl2> what do you use to burn iso's
[03:31] <schweeb> cdrecord
[03:31] <sladen> robertj: did you see my /query ?
[03:31] <jsubl2> i need a gui
[03:32] <xTina> jsubl2: No, you don't ;)
[03:32] <schweeb> cdrecord blah.iso
[03:32] <jmullman> cdrecord dev=/dev/whateveryourburneris filetoburn.iso
[03:32] <schweeb> maybe with a dev= in there
[03:32] <jdub> jsubl2: right click on an iso in the file manager
[03:32] <jsubl2> ok
[03:32] <jdub> jsubl2: choose 'write to disk'
[03:32] <jmullman> if you can copy a file, you can burn ;)
[03:32] <daniels> (to answer a question for someone who isn't here right now, no, we are not waiting for debrix; hoary will get new x debs relatively quickly)
[03:32] <schweeb> jmullman: man, the cdrecord guy HATES when you do it that way
[03:32] <jsubl2> i am still dl'ing
[03:33] <jsubl2> 25 minutes and I will be able to burn warty
[03:33] <jmullman> schweeb: tough nuggies lol
[03:33] <robertj> sladen: yah, got it
[03:33] <jdub> daniels: grr. wrong sender address on your list post :)
[03:33] <defendguin> will the installer not let me install a boot loader?
[03:33] <daniels> jdub: er, yeah
[03:35] <joh_> hmm, how do I get the kernel source package?
[03:36] <jsubl2> oooo back to compiling with fakeroot... right
[03:39] <daniels> jdub: i blame the lists moving
[03:40] <robertj> I need to grab a copy of ubuntu to keep current, is there a net install only iso floating around?
[03:40] <joh_> sorry... stupid me...
[03:40] <mdz> robertj: you can download a netboot tarball
[03:41] <mdz> defendguin: the installer installs grub in the MBR by default, unless you have other operating systems installed, in which case it prompts you
[03:41] <robertj> mdz: like a base.tar.gz?
[03:42] <defendguin> yeah i have another OS and i was just gonna add a grub.conf entry by hand mdz
[03:42] <mdz> robertj: like a kernel, initrd and config stuff for a PXE boot and network install
[03:42] <mdz> robertj: there is only one ISO available, the full-sized one
[03:45] <robertj> mdz: is it everything you need to chroot, install a boot-loader, and be done?
[03:45] <mdz> robertj: it gives you the complete installer, same as on the CD
[03:45] <mdz> I'll dig up a URL for you
[03:46] <mdz> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[03:46] <justdave> anyone burned the powerpc image yet?
[03:46] <mdz> robertj: actually there is a mini-ISO in there, now that I look. surprise :-)
[03:46] <mdz> justdave: of course; we tested it before release
[03:46] <mdz> robertj: please let me know if it works; it's unofficial at the moment
[03:46] <justdave> the machine with the burner on it has OS X on it, and Disk Utility crashes when I click the Burn button with it selected.
[03:47] <justdave> md5sum matches
[03:47] <mdz> justdave: yes, that is a bug in Disk Utility, unfortunately
[03:47] <mdz> justdave: xTina filed a bug with apple, I believe
[03:47] <xTina> Yes I did.
[03:47] <xTina> justdave: Install cdrecord via Fink and burn it on the command line.
[03:48] <mdz> xTina: is their bug tracking system public?  it would be great to have a URL we could give people so they could follow the issue, since more people will run into this
[03:49] <xTina> mdz: No, it is not. You need to be an ADC member to access it (there's a free online membership though, if anyone is willing to go through the application forms to file the bug).
[03:49] <mdz> xTina: is there a bug ID number or anything like that?
[03:49] <xTina> But you can only see your own bugs at any given time.
[03:50] <mdz> hmm
[03:50] <jmullman> not a very useful system is it? ;)
[03:50] <jmullman> love mac, hate the support
[03:50] <xTina> If they file additional bugs, they'll likely get closed/duplicated and don't see any further progress.
[03:50] <xTina> jmullman: Well, the latter problem is apparently a limitation of the software they're using.
[03:50] <neighborlee> hi..ic that ubuntu uses gnome/debian...i'm wondering what kernel it uses and what main features it has like automount and say browswer plugins ..?
[03:51] <jmullman> let's all nail their support, asking that they use bugzilla ;)
[03:51] <xTina> Making bug reports non-public by default makes sense, if it's also tracking NDA software and corporate customers make use of it to file internal problems.
[03:51] <jmullman> and you can do that with acls
[03:52] <jmullman> corp. accounts get more restrictive access and the public gets to see only public
[03:52] <jmullman> but this is a digression ;)
[03:52] <xTina> mdz: If you have the time, you might want to try to build a slightly modified ISO. As I said before, I never had a problem with it before that. Or put an FAQ somewhere ;)
[03:53] <mdz> xTina: yeah, we never ran into this with previous CD builds, it must just be how it happened to be assembled
[03:54] <mdz> xTina: if you file a bug in our bugzilla, I'll use that to collect information about the problem, and to notify folks if we find a workaround or if the next CD is known to avoid the issue
[03:54] <xTina> I'll do that.
[03:54] <xTina> There is none yet, or should I search as a precaution?
[03:54] <mdz> I haven't seen one
[03:55] <neighborlee> what branch of debian does ubuntu yes and is ubuntu totall compat with it ?
[03:55] <neighborlee> yes/use
[03:55] <mdz> neighborlee: ubuntu is based on Debian unstable/sid
[03:55] <mdz> neighborlee: upgrades from Debian woody are supported
[03:55] <xTina> what's the url?
[03:55] <mdz> xTina: http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/
[03:56] <neighborlee> mdz: ok...my question was really related to will apt-get work completely or does ubunto do anything 'unique' like mix branches causing possible problems...thx..
[03:57] <mdz> neighborlee: our release is based on a snapshot of debian unstable that we've continued to work on with bug fixes and improvements
[03:57] <mdz> all of the software from unstable is available from our repository
[03:57] <mdz> though, not all of it is officially supported
[03:57] <mdz> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
[03:57] <mdz> for more information about that
[03:57] <neighborlee> k thx
[03:58] <egon_spengler> Looks like the /. article has brought them out from all over, eh?
[03:59] <defendguin> its too bad the name "ubuntu" isnt a good name
[04:00] <defendguin> to me anyway
[04:00] <schweeb> I kind of like it
[04:00] <schweeb> it's unique
[04:00] <mdz> it resonates very well with open source and our ideas about it
[04:00] <defendguin> the meaning of the name is fine
[04:01] <neighborlee> defendguin, I also like it
[04:01] <xTina> mdz: Hm. Seems Bugzilla is slow sending out passwords.
[04:01] <neighborlee> it has pizazz
[04:01] <justdave> it's on the same pipe with the downloads
[04:02] <defendguin> i like Zen Linux
[04:02] <justdave> the mail has to wait in line for a space on the pipe :)
[04:02] <jsubl2> my fav from /. = I was telling my wife that the real problem with Linux is that there just aren't enough distributions out there. If some of these people, these so-called "open source programmers" would get off their asses and crank out a few more distributions THEN this stuff would really take off.
[04:02] <jsubl2> lol
[04:02] <neighborlee> anyway its 'meaning' is what matters so for me they could have called it 'bootoo' and i'd like it LOL
[04:02] <jdub> defendguin: the meaning of ubuntu is just beautiful, it's great :)
[04:02] <defendguin> lmfao
[04:03] <defendguin> how is it pronounced?
[04:03] <defendguin> U bun two?
[04:03] <defendguin> oo bun too?
[04:03] <jdub> ooh-boon-too
[04:03] <jdub> think: ooh ooh ooh, ubuntu! :-)
[04:04] <neighborlee> ooh-boon-too is what I thought as well LOL
[04:04] <defendguin> i was thinking U bun two
[04:05] <neighborlee> I like that it comes with gnome ;-0
[04:05] <neighborlee> so dain many only ship kde and it really urks me
[04:05] <hello> ubuntu looks absolutely awesome
[04:05] <neighborlee> hello, ;-0
[04:06] <neighborlee> I wont know for about another hour or so assuming that how long it takes to download/install ;-0
[04:06] <defendguin> maybe you should include a phonetic spelling thing on the website right beneath the logo
[04:06] <jdub> neighborlee: you pulling from a torrent?
[04:06] <neighborlee> jdub, yup
[04:06] <mdz> defendguin: we should include an ogg vorbis sample :-)
[04:06] <neighborlee> jdub, I just now started it..;0
[04:06] <mdz> hello: thank you :-)
[04:06] <defendguin> mdz sure
[04:06] <neighborlee> hmm decent speed so far..
[04:07] <neighborlee> I can't believe so many are here considering its a new distro
[04:07] <hello> it's downloading for me at 416k/s 8)
[04:07] <daniels> my torrent is only pushing 635kB/sec right now
[04:07] <daniels> down from 1.5MB/sec earlier this morning
[04:07] <hello> I think I'll install it tonight if I get some time
[04:07] <defendguin> 27.2 k/s
[04:07] <mdz> I saw upwards of 5mbit not long ago
[04:07] <egon_spengler> neighborlee Due to the slashdot effect
[04:07] <neighborlee> is the install debian like or did you incooporate anacando like progeny did ?
[04:07] <neighborlee> egon_spengler, ahhh heh
[04:08] <jdub> neighborlee: it uses a simplified and enhanced debian-installer
[04:08] <neighborlee> I saw it on distrowatch
[04:08] <neighborlee> jdub, sweet
[04:08] <mdz> neighborlee: it is closer to Debian than anaconda, but greatly streamlined
[04:08] <jdub> neighborlee: our second release will have a graphical installer
[04:08] <neighborlee> jdub, nice on both counts ;-)
[04:08] <xTina> Hm. Does anyone have a login screen screenshot I can steal?
[04:08] <neighborlee> jdub: i always thought text and gui should be offered
[04:09] <neighborlee> but yeah gui is good..if distro turns out to be well done and popular ..we dont need to not attract those that can only deal with a gui ;-))..
[04:10] <neighborlee> one hour 33 minutes ;-0
[04:10] <neighborlee> btw..i was attracted by fact its debian and that 'gnome' is actually here <G>
[04:10] <zenwhen> I wish i had known about this when I was sitting on a T3 earlier
[04:10] <neighborlee> I dont mind kde but I prefer gnome because its truly free
[04:10] <neighborlee> zenwhen, heh
[04:10] <zenwhen> <--- Dialup
[04:10] <neighborlee> ooooooouch
[04:10] <zenwhen> yeah
[04:11] <hello> I hope I have some CDRs
[04:11] <zenwhen> hehe
[04:11] <neighborlee> hello, ;-0
[04:12] <hello> yay, 2 left
[04:12] <daniels> neighborlee: um, KDE is under the GPL, so is Qt
[04:12] <neighborlee> daniels, yes but its not quite as free to use as gnome/gtk is it
[04:13] <daniels> gtk is under the lgpl, which means you can develop proprietary apps using it without paying for a licence.
[04:13] <neighborlee> exactly
[04:13] <jdub> neighborlee: KDE and GNOME are both Free Software, let's not get into this :-)
[04:14] <daniels> yes
[04:14] <neighborlee> jdub: all i'm saying is I 'prefer' gnome because to do commercial doesn't require paying..its just that simple to me..no biggie!
[04:14] <daniels> bdale: it's sounder@
[04:14] <egon_spengler> Just nice to see a new release with GNOME as default vice KDE.
[04:14] <tuppa> so can  I still bitch about KDE to you daniels?
[04:14] <neighborlee> egon_spengler, exactly
[04:15] <egon_spengler> GNOME is my default in Slack and FreeBSD
[04:15] <sladen> tuppa: yeah, KDE's a pain isn't it  ;-)
[04:15] <neighborlee> egon_spengler, heh
[04:16] <bdale> daniels: my inbox now has a bunch of messages with:
[04:16] <bdale> List-Id: Ubuntu Help and User Discussions <ubuntu-users.lists.ubuntu.com>
[04:17] <daniels> bdale: yeah, it's the new name for the sounder list
[04:18] <bdale> gee, thanks.  list renames suck.
[04:18] <Hrdwr_BoB> yeah my list filters didn't magically work it out
[04:19] <mike22> hi
[04:19] <bdale> updated in my config
[04:19] <hello> burning my CD B)
[04:19] <mike22> just read on /. is this x.org or xf86?
[04:19] <mdz> mike22: xfree86 for this release, x.org going into our development branch soon after
[04:19] <mike22> thanks
[04:20] <neighborlee> mdz: sweet
[04:21] <mike22> had alot of trouble with fc2 most tgz files look for xf86 includes
[04:21] <mike22> could not get pov-ray and lots others to compile
[04:22] <mdz> mike22: povray is available in packaged form; you shouldn't need to compile it
[04:22] <neighborlee> mike22, hmm well I find alot of innovative things in fc..I dont overall trust it
[04:23] <sladen> bdale: I think it would have been useful to have a post to the list stating it in advance, and with the new  Sender: / List-Id:  yes
[04:24] <mike22> i'm on the list to try the free cd thanks I fell a little giulty though there should be an address to send a contribution on the home page or on the page that gives you the free cd
[04:28] <dieman> 332 requests currently being processed, 18 idle workers
[04:28] <dieman> heh
[04:28] <dieman> only doing like 40mbps now though
[04:29] <neighborlee> 107KB/s..not much longer now ;-00heh
[04:29] <dieman> where you d/ling from?
[04:29] <neighborlee> albeit that slow...my dsl is slow but I work for the company so im not complaining <G>
[04:29] <neighborlee> dieman, BT
[04:29] <dieman> ahh
[04:29] <dieman> im helping the BT
[04:29] <dieman> ive got 1mbps to throw in from home
[04:29] <neighborlee> kewl thx!!
[04:30] <neighborlee> ill leave it going once I boot into ooh-boon-too <G>
[04:30] <neighborlee> ;-)
[04:30] <dieman> heh
[04:30] <dieman> i've been using it on my wife's machine for a few weeks now
[04:30] <dieman> and a vmware session at work for testing
[04:30] <dieman> installed it on a users laptop today too
[04:30] <neighborlee> dieman, hmmm and what does your wife think..and has she been die hard M$ fan perse ?
[04:30] <dieman> just about everything worked well enough.
[04:30] <neighborlee> very nice
[04:30] <dieman> naa, ive had her using linux for a good 3 or 4 years now
[04:31] <neighborlee> I just hope getting nvidia working isn't a hastle
[04:31] <dieman> nv should be easy
[04:31] <neighborlee> I tried in 'real' debian and it was rough
[04:31] <neighborlee> partly cuz debian doesn't use same init stuff that redhat and others do...a real PITA
[04:31] <dieman> the module is already there, you should just have to install nvidia-glx and choose nvidia in either 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86'  or the XF86Config-4 configuration file
[04:31] <dieman> (correct me if im wrong, anyone)
[04:31] <neighborlee> kewl
[04:32] <neighborlee> if so thats nice and easy
[04:32] <neighborlee> i'll remember thx
[04:33] <neighborlee> dieman, so does it do automount and what browser plugins come ready to rock..( not a 'biggie' but its nice )
[04:33] <neighborlee> ooooooouch
[04:33] <neighborlee> my download is corrupt ..restarting ;
[04:34] <neighborlee> stuff happens
[04:34] <neighborlee> restarted ;-
[04:35] <dieman> im not sure on the browser plugins offhand, not in front of my wife's machine
[04:35] <neighborlee> np
[04:35] <dieman> im going to be sitting down and recompiling mariliat's archive against ubuntu tonight perhaps
[04:35] <dieman> so we can get mplayer
[04:35] <dieman> and acroread
[04:35] <dieman> also need to get j2sdk going.
[04:35] <neighborlee> good
[04:35] <dieman> (i dont work for canonical, im just a user)
[04:35] <neighborlee> i'm not offhand familiar with mariliat sorry
[04:35] <neighborlee> dieman, heh
[04:35] <Hrdwr_BoB> marillat is a mong
[04:35] <dieman> hes a debian developer
[04:36] <dieman> haha
[04:36] <Hrdwr_BoB> he put x11 as the default output in mplayer
[04:36] <neighborlee> ahhhhh
[04:36] <dieman> yeah
[04:36] <dieman> i'll probally change that in my own archive
[04:36] <dieman> xv all the way
[04:36] <Hrdwr_BoB> well, sdl
[04:36] <Hrdwr_BoB> it depends on sdl anyway
[04:36] <neighborlee> dieman, so overall your wife seemed impressed at first glance ?..im looking fwd to gnome2.8 ;-00!!
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> sdl automagically figures out xv/x11/yourmother
[04:37] <neighborlee> gotta love sdl..
[04:37] <dieman> neighborlee: shes used to gnome 2.4/2.6, so it wasn't a huge diff
[04:37] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, lol
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> so wtf not use it
[04:37] <dieman> neighborlee: the newer evolution was the biggest thing
[04:37] <neighborlee> dieman, hmm..i've not seen evo1.5 yet..
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> neighborlee, my fiance got sick of me playing with it.. she's not that impressed because she's already using debian unstable
[04:37] <Hrdwr_BoB> and evo 1.5
[04:38] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, sweet ;-))
[04:38] <neighborlee> linux really is making inroads ;-00
[04:41] <dieman> god. the mirror is so bogged down out here
[04:41] <dieman> Fetched 85.1kB in 21s (3972B/s)
[04:41] <dieman> ow. ow. ow.
[04:44] <TongMaster> This # got busy suddenly.
[04:44] <TongMaster> jdub, one thought I had but never got to discuss last night (insert something about alcohol impaired attention spans) was the menu systems
[04:45] <TongMaster> Specifically the removal of the Debian menus. My question on their absence was leading up to a I feature I use heavely.
[04:46] <TongMaster> (even heavily)
[04:46] <neighborlee> heh
[04:46] <TongMaster> I understand why the Debian menus have been removed, that's makes sense.
[04:46] <neighborlee> yeah I always thought the debian menus were out of place
[04:47] <neighborlee> 53 minutes!
[04:47] <TongMaster> As a sysadmin though, I make *bloody* heavy use of custom Debian menus.
[04:47] <neighborlee> then 10 to burn and whatever to install ..lol
[04:47] <jdub> TongMaster: right, so, you can do customish stuff to the gnome menus
[04:47] <jdub> TongMaster: but it needs a lot of love
[04:47] <TongMaster> ah.
[04:48] <dieman> so, if ive got a usb hotplug flash-drive issue, what component should I bug it on?
[04:48] <TongMaster> The Debian .menu stuff is very sweet, so doing it the GNOME was need some TLC?
[04:51] <jdub> it needs some upstream fixes to the menu system to work nicely
[04:54] <dieman> Detailed Info: 'From ~5:30 to 7:30 pm tonight we experienced intermittent
[04:54] <dieman> +network problems at the border. NTS Engineers determined the Packeteer had
[04:54] <dieman> +load-handling problems when a ?slash-dot? targeted EECSI Web Server began
[04:54] <dieman> +generating over 80% of the internet traffic leaving the University. The problem+is resolved.  Please contact 1-HELP (612-301-4357) for questions or concerns.'
[04:55] <jdub> dieman: haha :) oops
[04:55] <sladen> dieman: good point, could do with a handy mariliat-esq archive.  Just the question of how to do it legally
[04:56] <dieman> yeah
[04:57] <dieman> i'll probally compile one up locally, but i dont know if i want to figure out the redistribution issues
[04:57] <daniels> dieman: ftp.cs.umn.edu?
[04:57] <dieman> daniels: yah
[04:57] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/sample.png
[04:57] <AndyFitz> /me ducks and runs   brb
[04:58] <daniels> dieman: nice :)
[04:58] <logik1> dieman: I agree. Nice.
[05:01] <logik1> So, what all do you think would improve Unbuntu?
[05:05] <xTina> logik1: Fixing all the bugs that I'm going to file after bugzilla finally gives me an account and then making sure that kickstart stuff that's apparently planned for the second release will really happen and happen soon :)
[05:05] <logik1> xTina: yes, I just install'd ub on 13 machines.
[05:06] <logik1> xTina: just imaged the HD.
[05:06] <xTina> Images are evil.
[05:06] <xTina> BadBadBadBadBad ;)
[05:06] <logik1> xTina: I want to know how good UB works with MPICH.
[05:06] <xTina> logik1: :)
[05:08] <logik1> xTina: so far, 10 of the 13 nodes have been failing and I am not sure why.
[05:09] <schweeb> I'd like to make an install report
[05:09] <schweeb> installed from that mini ISO
[05:09] <schweeb> worked well
[05:11] <schweeb> still downloading in base-config though... stupid 384k cable modem
[05:11] <defendguin> hmm is it possibly to install to a non mounted hard drive without out rebooting?
[05:12] <defendguin> without booting from the CD
[05:12] <pr0c> what optimizations where used building ubunu? (686?)
[05:12] <SmokingFire> anyone know how to enbable ntp support?
[05:12] <SmokingFire> can't find the services list
[05:12] <SmokingFire> I see I think I need to install it first with Synaptic
[05:13] <SmokingFire> I have seen some trick for it but it needs chroot or something
[05:13] <Hrdwr_BoB> pr0c, -O9 -funroll-loops -march=superhicas
[05:14] <schweeb> SmokingFire: "apt-get install ntpdate ntp-simple" usually works for me
[05:14] <dieman> xTina: im interested in automated installs too
[05:14] <pr0c> Hrdwr_BoB, haha
[05:14] <dieman> xTina: we should compare notes about needs over email sometime
[05:14] <neighborlee> 26 min. ;-0
[05:15] <dieman> http://www.funroll-loops.org/
[05:15] <dieman> mmmm
[05:15] <schweeb> hahahahaha
[05:15] <schweeb> I was about to pull that link out
[05:15] <logik1> schweeb: are the mirror servers bogged down?
[05:15] <dieman> logik1: yes
[05:15] <dieman> logik1: at least mine is
[05:16] <dieman> 342 requests currently being processed, 8 idle workers
[05:16] <logik1> dieman: give me a sec; I will throw up a mirror
[05:16] <SmokingFire> thanks scheew
[05:16] <neighborlee> ROFL
[05:16] <SmokingFire> thanks scheeb
[05:16] <xTina> dieman: We currently have a Fedora kickstart setup and I'm fed up with Fedora ;)
[05:16] <SmokingFire> schweeb
[05:16] <dieman> logik1: just set one up and then add the info to the wiki or harass a canonical person in here
[05:16] <schweeb> SmokingFire: IRC clients with tab completion rock
[05:16] <dieman> logik1: im just a user. :)
[05:16] <xTina> dieman: But I love kickstart, so I sort of don't want to go anywhere near FAI if we were to switch to Debian.
[05:16] <schweeb> logik1: I'm saturating my cable modem
[05:17] <schweeb> so they're not ULTRA bogged down
[05:17] <xTina> dieman: And Debian poses the dreaded stable/unstable dilemma ;)
[05:17] <schweeb> "dilemma"?
[05:17] <schweeb> no dilemma
[05:17] <dieman> xTina: i've got a hacked version of autoinstall i use with woody, im going to start investigating how to make d-i do what i want as soon as i get a chance
[05:17] <schweeb> just don't use stable
[05:17] <schweeb> <3 testing/unstable
[05:18] <logik1> schweeb: Just the x86 iso or all the isos?
[05:18] <schweeb> I've been running unstable on this laptop for 2 years straight... haven't lost any functionality for more than an hour... nothing I couldn't figure out how to fix
[05:18] <SmokingFire> So when is gnome going to have an apple like volume control?
[05:18] <schweeb> logik1: I downloaded the mini ISO, which was 4.5MB
[05:19] <logik1> schweeb: I can throwing up the follow iso on a oc-24 backbone.
[05:19] <SmokingFire> e.g. click one half volume. second click quater volume and third is off.
[05:19] <schweeb> and I'm downloading debs off archive. at 45K/s
[05:19] <schweeb> SmokingFire: ewww
[05:19] <schweeb> that'd have to be optional
[05:19] <dieman> xTina: the hard part is getting 'network', most likely I'll break down and go back to using dhcp.
[05:19] <dieman> xTina: aside from that, then come up with a way to acquire debconf answers given a machine name
[05:19] <Hrdwr_BoB> SmokingFire, put your mouse over the speaker and scroll the wheel.
[05:19] <Hrdwr_BoB> when apple can match that
[05:20] <Hrdwr_BoB> they will have funally got rid of that retarded mouse
[05:20] <dieman> xTina: most likely using a stacked debconf db if possible
[05:20] <dieman> dono if cdebconf does those yet.
[05:20] <dieman> might have to come up with a way that copies them into cdebconf, but then doesn't copy them locally at base-config
[05:20] <schweeb> oooh
[05:21] <schweeb> dieman: you done a decent bit of hacking w/ debconf then?
[05:21] <dieman> dono, ive not tought about it much
[05:21] <dieman> schweeb: not really, i've used stacked databases though.
[05:21] <dieman> it depends on your definition of hacking
[05:21] <schweeb> I've attempted to use the LDAP backend, but didn't really do anything with it
[05:21] <dieman> yeah, never used ldap
[05:22] <dieman> i've usually stacked using automounted nfs paritions
[05:22] <dieman> and the PackageDir driver
[05:22] <SmokingFire> Hrdwr_BoB, nice tip
[05:22] <dieman> Name: remotedb
[05:22] <dieman> Driver: PackageDir
[05:22] <dieman> Directory: /project/linux/debian3/debconf/config/
[05:22] <dieman> Readonly: true
[05:22] <dieman> Required: false
[05:22] <dieman> for instance
[05:22] <schweeb> there wasn't much good documentation on the sorts of stuff you could do w/ it
[05:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> SmokingFire, cheers, I found it because I tried it, and it seemed to be a sensible thing to do, and it worked :)
[05:24] <logik1> Ok, can everyone test some speeds? http://phoenix.lhup.edu/~choudesh/mirror/ubuntu/warty-i386.iso
[05:24] <SmokingFire> defendguin, ok I got this from the linux distro Yoper forums,
[05:24] <Hrdwr_BoB> logik1, SLooooooow
[05:24] <Hrdwr_BoB> 13k/s now
[05:24] <SmokingFire> make a directory
[05:24] <SmokingFire> /mnt/loop and /mnt/yos ...then mount the iso on the loop filesystem, and copy all the files from the /mnt/loop directory to /mnt/yos.
[05:24] <SmokingFire> Then do your chroot and make sure you mount proc.
[05:25] <logik1> Hrdwr_BoB: what connection you on?
[05:25] <Hrdwr_BoB> logik1, 100mbit
[05:25] <dieman> logik1: its *slow*
[05:26] <schweeb> heh
[05:26] <schweeb> owned
[05:26] <logik1> schweeb: very.
[05:26] <dieman> i'll admit though
[05:26] <dieman> its faster than ftp.cs.umn.edu right now
[05:26] <logik1> ha.
[05:27] <dieman> but there isn't 300+ people downloading from t either
[05:27] <dieman> it
[05:27] <SmokingFire> defendguin, here are the instructions step by step: http://www.yoper.com/forum2/index.php?showtopic=1563&st=0&
[05:27] <logik1> dieman: 29 people are download ATM.
[05:27] <dieman> 350 requests currently being processed, 0 idle workers
[05:27] <dieman> jeezus
[05:27] <dieman> the server is full.
[05:27] <dieman> 350 is where we start crying uncle
[05:27] <dieman> and turning people away
[05:27] <dieman> i should really be doing it at like 150-200 tho
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> we had a single website pull a constant 4mb/s for months
[05:28] <pr0c> from http://phoenix.lhup.edu/~choudesh/mirror/ubuntu/warty-i386.iso i get < 15kbps from my server at ev1servers
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> stupid fucks
[05:28] <logik1> remind me never to VI a 100meg log.
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> it was a constant refresh webcam
[05:28] <logik1> its cap'd
[05:28] <logik1> I am working on it.
[05:28] <daniels> Hrdwr_BoB: hm, should be quicker from fooishbar
[05:28] <daniels> Hrdwr_BoB: got somewhere I can scp it to?
[05:28] <Hrdwr_BoB> daniels, hm?
[05:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> hangon
[05:29] <daniels> HOLY SHIT MY PLANE LEAVES IN 45MIN
[05:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> ?
[05:29] <npmccallum> daniels: bye then :)
[05:30] <Hrdwr_BoB> bye now!
[05:30] <neighborlee> daniels, be safe
[05:31] <dieman> heh
[05:31] <dieman> in the usa we call that a missed flight, now
[05:31] <neighborlee> heh
[05:37] <ianw> is ubuntu planning on supporting ia64?
[05:37] <jdub> ianw: not atm
[05:38] <neighborlee> 2 minutes! lol
[05:38] <Clint> is ubuntu-users a new list or an old one renamed?
[05:38] <dieman> renamed
[05:38] <jdub> Clint: new, basically (it's roughly equivalent to sounder)
[05:38] <dieman> oh
[05:38] <dieman> n/m
[05:39] <dieman> 21:17 < daniels> bdale: yeah, it's the new name for the sounder list
[05:39] <dieman> 21:18 < bdale> gee, thanks.  list renames suck.
[05:39] <dieman> thats what i saw eariler
[05:39] <Clint> so I should continue to filter sounder then
[05:39] <jdub> Clint: it'll phase out, we've split to devel and users
[05:40] <Clint> righty-o then
[05:41] <mdz> jdub: who did you subscribe to -devel? staff?
[05:41] <dieman> someone should port gcombust to gtk 2.x
[05:41] <dieman> just so this whole k3b is god thing goes away.
[05:42] <dieman> :)
[05:42] <schweeb> god
[05:42] <jdub> mdz: no one
[05:43] <jdub> mdz: everyone's on users, devel's opt-in
[05:43] <schweeb> I hate installing the whole QT framework just for that ONE app you need
[05:43] <schweeb> </3 k3b
[05:43] <dieman> yeah
[05:43] <dieman> like a honest to god ppp dialer like kppp
[05:45] <Espectro> is there a package listing somewhere?
[05:46] <dieman> in the wiki there are descriptions of the 'seeds'
[05:46] <dieman> those are the supported packages
[05:46] <dieman> as to the 'universe' packages, i would just use apt-cache search
[05:47] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:47] <dieman> otherwise, dont think theres an online search yet
[05:47] <dieman> hey fabbione 
[05:47] <dieman> happy release day
[05:47] <fabbione> dieman: thanks :-)
[05:47] <s0dak1ng> so how is this distro?
[05:47] <wasabi> Hahahaha.
[05:47] <wasabi> This channel has more people than #goneme!!!
[05:47] <wasabi> *snicker*
[05:47] <Espectro> all right
[05:47] <Espectro> why did you guys wait for the next beta to switch to x.org
[05:48] <dieman> heh
[05:48] <wasabi> Espectro, i'd imagine because debian is waiting for it to be autoconf'd.
[05:48] <schweeb> because Xorg full release was... yesterday?
[05:48] <dieman> fabbione should know, my guess is that cross-platform-stuff aint working yet, as usual.
[05:48] <dieman> and that forking from the XSF builds would be a huge undertaking
[05:49] <schweeb> and it's probably fairly difficult to wrangle Xorg into debian
[05:49] <dieman> because of the amount of insane work branden also does
[05:49] <schweeb> they wanna do it correctly
[05:49] <schweeb> and then submit their findings to debian main
[05:49] <Espectro> what do you mean full release? 6.7 has been available for half a year, and 6.8 for just a little, and a lot longer than gnome 2.8
[05:49] <jdub> Espectro: we were hoping to include X.org, but this is our first release, and there was a lot of other work to do :-)
[05:49] <schweeb> from what I understand
[05:49] <schweeb> gnome 2.8 was already on its way into Debian Experimental (or was that ubuntu's doing?)
[05:50] <jdub> Espectro: most of the benefits of X.org will arrive on the same timeline as our next release, so it was not a huge loss
[05:51] <xTina> Off to bed ... n8 everyone
[05:51] <m_tthew> xTina: night
[05:51] <dieman> xTina: nght
[05:51] <dieman> dilinger: yo
[05:52] <m_tthew> xTina: hope you mentioned 'ubuntu' in your bug report w/ apple :)
[05:52] <Espectro> is java going to be included, like slackware does?
[05:52] <m_tthew> 2late
[05:52] <mako> Espectro: non-free java?
[05:52] <Espectro> evil, full featured, sun's java
[05:52] <Espectro> :)
[05:52] <wasabi> Espectro, that's not legal.
[05:52] <Espectro> how does slackware do it?
[05:52] <wasabi> Espectro, accroding to the license you click I Agree to when you download Java from sun's site.
[05:53] <wasabi> I have no idea.
[05:53] <wasabi> Ask them.
[05:53] <mako> unfortunately, we've got these anonying licensing guideilnes :)
[05:53] <schweeb> probably a download script
[05:53] <wasabi> Yeah.
[05:53] <schweeb> you agree to the license, it downloads and installs for you
[05:53] <dieman> wasabi: actually, its ok to redistribute with the clickthrough license, i've seen debs that someone made up that sun was ok with
[05:53] <schweeb> like flashplugin-nonfree
[05:53] <Espectro> hmm, they even have netscape
[05:53] <dopey> nice work guys.. looks like ubuntu/canonical is starting to really take off.
[05:53] <dieman> wasabi: so what i usually do is download them and strip the license out for local use.
[05:54] <jdub> Espectro: it will probably be easily installable at some stage, but not just yet :)
[05:54] <wasabi> dieman, we've got java-package in debian expecting to make that easier.
[05:54] <dieman> s/license/clickthrough stuff/g
[05:54] <mako> even if it meant a special deal, we want to maintain a distro that others can fork.. in others case, that may mean adding something like java. but we're not going to do anything that blocks further derivative works ourselves
[05:54] <wasabi> The java policy in debian isn't exactly "good" though.
[05:54] <Espectro> i think you guys need a DeveloperSeed or something
[05:54] <mako> Espectro: sounds like a reasonable project
[05:55] <fabbione> guys there is no need to guess anything for Xorg/Xfree86 ubuntu/debian
[05:55] <jdub> Espectro: most of our developer tools are in the SupportedSeed
[05:55] <Espectro> to list packages for development, i don't seem to find databases
[05:55] <fabbione> there was not enough time to switch the tree for warty
[05:55] <jdub> Espectro: we need to keep the number of seeds down for simplicity ;)
[05:55] <wasabi> How will you deal with closed source drivers?
[05:55] <wasabi> Such as ATI and Nvidia.
[05:55] <jdub> Espectro: they're in SupportedSeed
[05:55] <Espectro> oh, ok
[05:55] <fabbione> it will happen for hoary in full cooperation with debian
[05:56] <schweeb> wasabi: NVIDIA allows distribution now
[05:56] <schweeb> dunno bout ATI
[05:56] <wasabi> So you will be including it with the distro, even though it isn't open source.
[05:56] <wasabi> ie a marked divergence from debian
[05:56] <schweeb> there's a restricted branch
[05:56] <schweeb> with non-free stuff
[05:57] <Espectro> i appreciate debian's tools, but i think they have outdated stuff, partly because they have the same packages for tens of architectures
[05:57] <schweeb> wasabi: you can get nvidia drivers in debian too
[05:57] <Espectro> i have always wanted a debian-x86 fork
[05:57] <schweeb> they're somewhere in non-free I believe
[05:57] <Espectro> that has recent but stable packages
[05:57] <wasabi> huh maybe they are
[05:57] <schweeb> I always download the latest NVIDIAs anywawys
[05:57] <wasabi> they used to grab from nvidia's site at one point
[05:58] <dieman> heh zdnet au covered ubuntu
[05:58] <schweeb> oh, they most certainly 100% are in one of the main debian branches
[05:58] <dieman> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39159573,00.htm
[05:58] <wasabi> okay, so maybe I was wrong.
[05:58] <schweeb> I know tons of people that install nvidia from apt
[05:58] <wasabi> I wonder then if sun's java can be included in non-free.
[05:58] <schweeb> but probably in non-free
[05:58] <Espectro> nvidia is hard to install from debian
[05:59] <wasabi> not really.
[05:59] <Espectro> i always get confused from the multiple packages names
[05:59] <schweeb> no
[05:59] <schweeb> it isn't difficult at all
[05:59] <schweeb> if I wasn't installing at the moment, I'd tell you exactly how to do it
[05:59] <schweeb> it's not that many steps
[05:59] <dieman> http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733,39159436,00.htm <-- oh look, its more jeff!
[05:59] <Espectro> i dont have debian anymore but i remember that the official instructions included getting inside a dir manually to compile and make a .deb package or something
[05:59] <dieman> he had a busy week
[05:59] <mdz> in ubuntu, you need to install only one package for nvidia
[06:00] <mdz> and then reconfigure X to use the driver
[06:00] <dieman> you guys have the problem that dri gets busted if you have nvidia-glx installed and not using nvidia?
[06:00] <Espectro> in gentoo i just emerge one thing, and in other distros i install the nvidia-kernel and nvidia-glx package, that's it
[06:00] <jay> nice and solid release on ubuntu
[06:00] <jay> except for wireless networking
[06:00] <schweeb> Espectro: ....
[06:01] <schweeb> debian has nvidia-module and nvidia-glx, or something similar
[06:01] <schweeb> do you have a debian box?
[06:01] <Espectro> not anymore
[06:01] <schweeb> vanilla debian that is
[06:01] <sanxiyn> schweeb: I do. I am on it now :-)
[06:01] <Dr_Willis> Hello all
[06:01] <Espectro> i COULD install nvidia's, but it was harder than other distros
[06:02] <Espectro> i am glad this distro has done something about it
[06:02] <mdz> jay: what went wrong?
[06:02] <sanxiyn> Since I don't have nVidia card, I don't care...
[06:02] <schweeb> heh
[06:02] <Espectro> ati fan, huh
[06:02] <jay> mdz: network-admin just locked on me would not work on dhcp or manually
[06:02] <sanxiyn> Intell onboard graphic is the 1st graphics card in the market in terms of share, I think.
[06:02] <jay> had to add the config manually
[06:02] <schweeb> ugh
[06:02] <schweeb> i810?
[06:02] <sanxiyn> Yes.
[06:03] <jay> gonna be a bi*t*h to do this each time i boot
[06:03] <sanxiyn> It's the fact of life.
[06:03] <mdz> jay: #1069?
[06:03] <Dr_Willis> ANyone tried this Ubunto on AMD64 based machines yet? - Been trying to test out all the 64bit disrtos on my laptop.
[06:03] <jay> also why no icons on my desktop
[06:03] <mdz> Dr_Willis: yes
[06:03] <jay> mdz: ???
[06:03] <mdz> jay: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1069
[06:03] <mdz> jay: same bug?
[06:03] <jdub> Dr_Willis: there have been quite a few successful installs so far :)
[06:03] <Dr_Willis> mdz,  of course most of my issues with amd64 are lated to my Emachine laptop 6811
[06:04] <Dr_Willis> heh - checking the wiki and forums for any success stories in that ares
[06:04] <jay> mdz: yes
[06:04] <mdz> Dr_Willis: I'm not sure if it has been tried on an amd64 laptop; it works quite well on desktops
[06:04] <jay> why no icons on desktop
[06:04] <Dr_Willis> mdz,  yea. Ive had decent luck with Gentoo and its Emachine kernel.
[06:04] <Dr_Willis> but had other issues with gentoo :P
[06:05] <mdz> jdub: care to update the FAQ on that one?
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> SUSE 9.1's amd64 support is lacking in ways also.
[06:05] <Espectro> are you guys promoting the "one app for each role" motto, or will you be prostituting everything?
[06:05] <mdz> Dr_Willis: what's different about the Emachine kernel?
[06:05] <Dr_Willis> mdz,  not sure really - I think its some patches mainly to fix the buggy bios
[06:05] <wasabi> Under the license to distrbute Sun's JVM:
[06:05] <wasabi> (vi) you agree to defen d and indemnify Sun
[06:05] <wasabi> and its licensors from and against any damages, costs,
[06:05] <wasabi> liabilities, settlement amounts and/or expenses (including
[06:05] <wasabi> attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any claim,
[06:05] <wasabi> lawsuit or action by any third party that arises or results
[06:05] <wasabi> from the use or distribution of any and all Programs and/or
[06:05] <wasabi> Software.
[06:05] <wasabi> I'd say that pretty much terminates that idea.
[06:06] <jdub> mdz: icons? was just looking to see if someone wrote one ;)
[06:06] <mdz> jdub: yes :-)
[06:06] <jay> anyone?
[06:06] <mdz> jdub: something like "you love it! you know you do!"
[06:06] <jdub> haha
[06:06] <Dr_Willis> heh - still downloading the iso.. then i gotta install it.
[06:06] <xxor> sup all
[06:06] <jdub> jay: hold on, going to write a faq entry
[06:06] <xxor> how do I install packages
[06:06] <jdub> jay: basically, it's all available in the computer menu
[06:06] <Dr_Willis> this is now the 2nd dsrto i need to test out. downloaded Yoper yesterday
[06:06] <Espectro> that says if you cost money to sun from distribute their software they will bill you, not relevant here
[06:06] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i got emachin 6805
[06:07] <jdub> jay: and whenever you're working on stuff, you can't see the desktop anyway :)
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:how was yoper?
[06:07] <jay> jdub: very true
[06:07] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  Not had a chance to install it yet. :P
[06:07] <mdz> xxor: if you like the command line, try 'aptitude search <regex>' and 'aptitude install <package>'
[06:07] <Amroc> good job on the slashdot guys
[06:07] <sanxiyn> Is AMD64 port of Ubuntu based on debian-amd64?
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:there is also userlinux
[06:07] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i just noticed that THIS one had amd64 iso :P
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:yah me too..i will download it soon
[06:07] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yea - not seen if userlinux has amd64 support. i dident think it did
[06:07] <mdz> xxor: if you prefer a graphical interface, you may want to try Computer->System Configuration->Synaptic
[06:07] <clee> ew. synaptic sucks.
[06:07] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:there is also debian amd64
[06:08] <wasabi> clee, heretic. Synaptic is rad.
[06:08] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:fedora 2
[06:08] <clee> wasabi: um, no.
[06:08] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  thats recently new eh?
[06:08] <clee> wasabi: you lose.
[06:08] <jdub> clee: we'll have some interesting other stuff for Hoary
[06:08] <mdz> sanxiyn: no, it is based on unstable
[06:08] <Dr_Willis> SO far ive tried SUSE 9.1, and Gentoo.
[06:08] <wasabi> clee, I know for a fact I never lose.
[06:08] <clee> jdub: Good.
[06:08] <clee> jdub: Because seriously, synaptic is weak.
[06:08] <Amroc> i have a question: lamont said that you 'didnt' release the preview today...because of problems, is this true or is thre new stuff out?
[06:08] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:yeah i am also looking for the best amd64 linux distro
[06:08] <sanxiyn> mdz: Eh, but there's no AMD64 architecture in Sid...?
[06:09] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:do u have MSN messenger and such? we can keep in touch
[06:09] <mdz> Amroc: he said what?  preview released today on schedule, according to plan
[06:09] <xxor> where has this dist been hiding at
[06:09] <xxor> hehe
[06:09] <jdub> clee: it's okay for a certain class of user. it doesn't deserve slanging, though.
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  so far Gentoo has been #1 - But the problem ith gentoo was that most every package was 'masked' on the amd64 part.  
[06:09] <lamont> Amroc: I said we didn't release a LIVECD today
[06:09] <mdz> sanxiyn: right, we based it on the source code in unstable and made fixes for amd64 as needed
[06:09] <clee> jdub: it's definitely not usable for the most-commonly-used functions imho
[06:09] <jdub> xxor: you don't want to enable your root account either, btw. leave it as it is for a while :)
[06:09] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i rarely ise the im clents. I'm on here most every day :P
[06:09] <jdub> clee: for the majority of users, no
[06:09] <Amroc> way to piss off glen though lamont 
[06:09] <clee> jdub: What is really required is something that does the bare minimum of 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade'
[06:09] <clee> jdub: but in a pretty GUI with summaries and whatnot
[06:09] <wasabi> clee, synaptic plans to add a wizard for that
[06:10] <Amroc> meep
[06:10] <jdub> clee: we have some stuff planned for hoary
[06:10] <wasabi> i was talking with one of the maintainers at one point
[06:10] <lamont> Amroc: I really did feel bad about that though...  OTOH, he was much more relieved that way...
[06:10] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i guess i will let u be the g.pig to see how this distro is on our laptop lol
[06:10] <xxor> jdub: the machine I installed on is non-routable and locked down by router access list
[06:10] <schweeb> meh, synaptic is weak
[06:10] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:should i flash my bios to 6809 or 6811?
[06:10] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i'd heard the 6811 stff fixes a lot. But its still a risk.
[06:10] <sanxiyn> mdz: Was there some problem with http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/ ? (95% complete in their own words.)
[06:11] <Espectro> where are the obligatory screenshots, that will kill your server?
[06:11] <xxor> jdub: can I add normal debian sources ? so I can install unstable packages
[06:11] <sanxiyn> mdz: Or was it easy to just start from the scratch?
[06:11] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  do you have an issue where an External mouse (usb) isent seen on boot up? under windows OR linux? untill you unplug/plug it back in?
[06:11] <jdub> xxor: no, just uncomment the 'universe' lines and use those - most of debian is available, albeit unsupported
[06:11] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:yes..
[06:11] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: sometimes
[06:12] <xxor> jdub: who writes this dist
[06:12] <mdz> sanxiyn: most of what the debian-amd64 project provided was build infrastructure, package repository, etc.
[06:12] <mdz> sanxiyn: we have our own infrastructure for that
[06:12] <sanxiyn> Ah. Thank you for clarification.
[06:12] <jdub> xxor: it's based on debian, the first release was wholly developed by employees of canonical
[06:12] <wasabi> I'd like to see the multi-arch spec implemented.
[06:12] <wasabi> In fact I'd give money to see it implemented. ;)
[06:12] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:actually ..that happens only when after inside windows i unplug it ...
[06:12] <xxor> jdub: never heard of that corporation
[06:12] <mdz> wasabi: it's something we are investigating
[06:13] <xxor> jdub: is it non-profit ?
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  friend at work has a 6805, i had a 6809
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i haven't had that problem for a month after i don't move my laptop anymore
[06:13] <wasabi> mdz, /lib/i386-linux/, /lib/amd85-linux/
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i had that problem when i was moving my laptop and unplugging the usb mouse on and off
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> ie had issues with it. But my 09 never had the issue.. i got an 6811 and  it has the problem all the time 
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:but when idont move it i dont got issues anymore
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  this is sitting there from a cold boot.
[06:13] <clee> amd85?
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:oh..then i dont have that problem
[06:13] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:try a diff usb port
[06:13] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  what mouse port ya use? 2 on side? or back?
[06:14] <jdub> xxor: canonical isn't, no
[06:14] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: try install the NEWEST SYNAPTIC mouse driver
[06:14] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  Hmm.. good idea there.
[06:14] <xxor> jdub: so the 'gold' version will cost ?
[06:14] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: i use the 1 closer to the tab key on the left side
[06:14] <sanxiyn> xxor: I guess "no".
[06:14] <jdub> xxor: no
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  Hmm. thats the same i am useing.. fruend says his works on the back left one Only...
[06:15] <jdub> xxor: see ubuntulinux.org and canonical.com
[06:15] <Espectro> why make your x86 packages i386?
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  somthing is real flakey here. :P
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:over all i love the laptop..playing the newest games on it with no problem
[06:15] <Espectro> i dont think anyone on a 386 is gonna use this...
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:tribes:vengenace, doom 3, and such
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yep. :P
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> is tribes Vengance out?
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i upgraded my ram to 3200 and hd to 7200
[06:15] <Dr_Willis> I got the demo.
[06:15] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:the open beta is out
[06:16] <sanxiyn> Espectro: I guess it uses i386 instructions with i686 scheduling.
[06:16] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  cool. but the full is due out like nest month eh?
[06:16] <sanxiyn> Espectro: That's nearly as fast as i686 compiled packages.
[06:16] <Dr_Willis> hmm should i get the beta.. :P lol
[06:16] <xxor> jdub: incorporated in isle of man , that doesnt look too positive .. corporate tax evasion shelter =]  heh
[06:16] <sanxiyn> Hm, am I correct?
[06:16] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:www.fileplanet.com
[06:16] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  ya got to be a member?
[06:16] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:just have to register
[06:16] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:no need to pay
[06:17] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  cool.  Not like tht Lame WoW beta
[06:17] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i downloaded that but didn't even try it haha
[06:18] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  lol. :P i hear its very good.
[06:18] <xxor> jdub: just a joke .. everything looks awsome , gnome even has extensions for firebird to open links , very nice
[06:18] <Dr_Willis> i'd liek to try it - but the beta testing is closed i hear.
[06:18] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:anywayz its over now
[06:19] <lamont> Mithrandir: you around, or sleeping?
[06:19] <jay> ok not to keen on this networking thing not working... but other than 2 lockups, ubuntu is pretty cook
[06:19] <jay> cool
[06:19] <s0dak1ng> jay:is it fast
[06:20] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:u still there?
[06:20] <jay> i have a 1ghz with 512m ram ibm thinkpad
[06:20] <Dr_Willis> yeppers
[06:20] <jay> not bad
[06:20] <Dr_Willis> bittorrent has 51% done
[06:20] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:20] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i am using xp..i can just format my 2nd partition, and install it on it right
[06:21] <Neg> azureus is taking a lot more resources than it usually does with this torrent
[06:21] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yep shoudl be able to.
[06:21] <s0dak1ng> neg:azureus is 2 slow..(java) use ABC torrent..its much better
[06:21] <jay> crap another lockup
[06:21] <jay> now its evolution
[06:21] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  doh. i forgot when i reisntalled xp on my laptop it laied out my partions funny - lol
[06:21] <jay> grrrr
[06:21] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:what boot manger does it use?
[06:21] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  i wold guess GRUB - :P not tried it yet
[06:21] <Neg> azureus is fine
[06:21] <Neg> i'm not worried about the speed
[06:22] <Neg> it's just acting different now
[06:22] <s0dak1ng> jay:3rd lockups in a row?
[06:22] <s0dak1ng> jay:uh oh
[06:22] <jay> yea, gonna go back to suse 9.1
[06:22] <jay> unfortunately no gnome 2.8 there
[06:22] <s0dak1ng> jay:u tried yoper, userlinux yet?
[06:23] <jay> nope i havent
[06:23] <Dr_Willis> so now i got 3 disrtos to test out. Userlinux, Yoper, and ubuntu
[06:23] <Dr_Willis> been a busy week for new disrtos :P
[06:23] <s0dak1ng> jay:for some reason i never wanted to try distros like mantrake, suse
[06:23] <george_> whats the scoop on Mono?  Are you planning to include it?
[06:23] <s0dak1ng> jay:just feels too ........bloated and ...
[06:24] <tseng> george_: not in this release
[06:24] <jdub> george_: it's not in Warty, but perhaps for the next release
[06:24] <jay> aargggh. locked again
[06:24] <xxor> so I can add normal debian sources .. and install packages ?
[06:24] <tseng> george_: atm im trying to rebuild the debina packages on warty
[06:24] <sanxiyn> george_: Debian already includes much Mono stuffs.
[06:24] <jdub> xxor: you don't add debian sources
[06:24] <tseng> debian*
[06:24] <jdub> xxor: just uncomment the ones in sources.list
[06:24] <Dr_Willis> wow - i rember now why I NEVER go to fileplanet, or gamespy sites - they want me to pay or wait for downloads... guess they cant handle bittorrent
[06:24] <george_> just wondering as I have a gfax package writen in C#, it uses hylafax
[06:24] <sanxiyn> xxor: "universe" thing.
[06:24] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:one thing i dont like about linux is...there is always new distros and i waste too much time updating packages than using them
[06:24] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:so 1 year ago i said fuck it and been using xp since
[06:24] <jdub> george_: you're the gfax author?
[06:24] <tseng> the mono packages in universe seem broken
[06:25] <george_> yup
[06:25] <jdub> george_: i've been meaning to get in touch with you about it :)
[06:25] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  yep. thats good an bad. :P sort of like a House made of legos.. ya are always playign with it.
[06:25] <Neg> try filefront.com for game torrent downloads
[06:25] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:which in itself is a waste of time
[06:25] <xxor> jdub: sorry I misunderstood before , I found it
[06:25] <xxor> thanks
[06:25] <george_> I'm redoing the UI at the monment, a bit more HIG
[06:25] <jdub> george_: excellent!
[06:25] <jdub> george_: working on integration with libgnomeprint and/or cups?
[06:26] <george_> Damn theres the phone, you could email me george @gmsys.com
[06:26] <george_> see ya
[06:26] <npmccallum> tseng: it is :)
[06:26] <sanxiyn> bye!
[06:26] <xxor> lame+=
[06:26] <xxor> =/+
[06:26] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:how fast are u downloading at?
[06:26] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  not if you are learning stuff
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> its 72%done now :P
[06:27] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i rather get stuff done that keep rebuilding everything
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> 429k/s
[06:27] <xxor> GRRRRRRR
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> Gesh! :P i dident think i could download that fast
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> lol
[06:27] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis: s/that/than
[06:27] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  so get stuff done. :P self controll
[06:27] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:i have absolutely 0 will power
[06:28] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  one of the "Ritlin Generation" eh?
[06:28] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:29] <xxor> any of the developers here ?
[06:29] <s0dak1ng> my 2 favorite it sites are slashdot and osnews..now both reporting this distro lol
[06:30] <Dr_Willis> 87% downloaded by bittottent :P
[06:30] <Dr_Willis> guess thers a LOT of torrent users out there.
[06:30] <xxor> I wouldnt bother
[06:30] <xxor> its very buggy 
[06:30] <xxor> doesnt support my burners by default
[06:30] <xxor> very limited packages
[06:30] <xxor> regular debian stuff doesnt seem to install right
[06:30] <schweeb> Dr_Willis: ritalin
[06:30] <xxor> hence why its 'unsupported'
[06:30] <Dr_Willis> schweeb,  viagra! :P
[06:30] <s0dak1ng> xxor:u talkign about ubuntu?
[06:31] <xxor> because there so many bugs they cant possibly answer all the email
[06:31] <xxor> s0dak1ng: yeah
[06:31] <s0dak1ng> xxor:not worth it to try?
[06:31] <xxor> s0dak1ng: no
[06:31] <xxor> its lame++
[06:31] <schweeb> sounds like you just don't know what you're doing
[06:31] <schweeb> "doesn't support my burners by default"
[06:31] <xxor> schweeb: 10 years running linux
[06:32] <xxor> I know when something is lame
[06:32] <xxor> and this is
[06:32] <schweeb> if they're burners worth anything, then they're ATAPI
[06:32] <schweeb> nothing needs to be "supported", they just speak it
[06:32] <xxor> schweeb: make whatever excuses you want
[06:32] <xxor> this dist is lame++
[06:32] <jdub> xxor: we have a supported set of packages, and 'universe'
[06:32] <xxor> nothing is configured right
[06:32] <schweeb> troll.
[06:33] <jdub> universe is a snapshot of debian main
[06:33] <phlaegel> maybe it's just not configured exactly as you think it should be... plenty of other people like it just fine.
[06:33] <jdub> we could not take the time to fix everything in universe for warty
[06:33] <xxor> jdub: then apt-get'ing should work right ?
[06:33] <jdub> but i imagine that's one of the first things that our community developers will want to do for hoary
[06:33] <jdub> xxor: sure, in most cases
[06:33] <xxor> jdub: I run unstable debian .. works fine , I just tried to apt-get install <name> and it failed
[06:33] <phlaegel> it's clearly a preview release, but a good one, IMO.
[06:33] <xxor> so
[06:33] <jdub> xxor: what's not working for you?
[06:33] <xxor> obviously something is wrong
[06:33] <xxor> jdub: apt-get install <any_package_name>
[06:34] <tvon> xxor: what exactly is happening
[06:34] <jdub> xxor: what are you trying to install, and what happens? (paste)
[06:34] <schweeb> xxor: details are key
[06:34] <schweeb> as are supporting bugreports
[06:34] <xxor> well , this will look minor im sure
[06:34] <xxor> but it works in unstable (regular debian box) 
[06:34] <xxor> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[06:34] <xxor>   k3b: Depends: kdebase-bin but it is not installable
[06:34] <xxor> E: Broken packages
[06:34] <schweeb> is that in universe?
[06:34] <schweeb> or main?
[06:34] <xxor> universe
[06:35] <jdub> xxor: which lines are uncommented in your sources.list?
[06:35] <schweeb> universe is unsupported
[06:35] <tvon> should k3b even be available?
[06:35] <jdub> schweeb: hold on a sec :)
[06:35] <xxor> jdub: you told me to uncomment the universe lines
[06:35] <schweeb> jdub: okay okay, heh
[06:35] <jdub> xxor: okay, and did you apt-get update?
[06:35] <mdz> jdub: looks like kdebase-bin is not built in universe
[06:35] <lifeless> jdub: so, can I congratulate you on a release now ?
[06:35] <xxor> jdub: yessir I did
[06:35] <jdub> mdz: aha.
[06:35] <jdub> lifeless: not me, the team
[06:35] <lifeless> ....ok then. Congrats to the team.
[06:35] <jdub> xxor: okay, so mdz has verified that kdebase-bin was not built in universe, so those packages are unavailable
[06:35] <schweeb> could add an unstable source to your list to get kdebase-bin
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:almost done ??
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:please test it ASAP
[06:36] <xxor> jdub: ok well , thats real lame 
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  its done :P
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:OKAY GOGOGOGO
[06:36] <mdz> schweeb: that's not generally a good idea, for the reasons outlined in the FAQ
[06:36] <jdub> xxor: so that doesn't mean the distro is lame, it just means that part of our unsupported set is not working
[06:36] <schweeb> mdz: I like to live dangerously ;)
[06:36] <jdub> xxor: that's totally fixable too, by the way
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  but I gotta redo my partition.:P or can the isntaller repartion a ntfs partion? 
[06:36] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:god damn
[06:36] <xxor> jdub: I dont feel like hacking shit to work .. mdk is lame++ and works better than this
[06:36] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:so u have to format xp again?
[06:36] <xxor> jdub: so does gentoo
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: you don't need to hack shit
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: you're trying to use an unsupported package that happens to be broken
[06:37] <schweeb> mdz: I live by my daily "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" in sid
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: if you could file a bug on that, we should be able to fix it
[06:37] <xxor> jdub: it works fine in regular debian and debian unstable
[06:37] <phlaegel> unsupported packages not working in a preview release??? *gasp* what are we going to do??? ;-)
[06:37] <jdub> xxor: sure - this is not regular debian :)
[06:37] <mako> night everyone
[06:37] <xxor> phlaegel: you should label the bug ridden garbage if you cant install anything from kde
[06:37] <mdz> mako: night
[06:37] <schweeb> xxor: sorry to be a dick, but you need to calm down, and reasonably go through this, because what you are doing is on the brink of trolling... if not actually trolling
[06:37] <xxor> he led me to believe it was good , had gnome 2.8 supported
[06:38] <s0dak1ng> lol xxor is funny
[06:38] <mako> oh shit! i forgot a blog entry today.. i think i have a backup for such an occasion
[06:38] <jdub> xxor: yes, gnome 2.8 is supported, but kde is not supported
[06:38] <phlaegel> hm. *unsupported*. *preview*. hm.
[06:38] <jdub> xxor: in many cases, packages 'just work' from universe
[06:38] <tvon> Ubuntu is a GNOME based distro
[06:38] <jdub> xxor: in this case, you've found one that doesn't -> that can be fixed, hwoever
[06:38] <xxor> jdub: wheres the bug/development servers ..
[06:39] <tvon> xxor: /topic
[06:39] <jdub> (note that we generally concentrate on fixing supported stuff)
[06:39] <schweeb> bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[06:39] <s0dak1ng> is there a message board yet?
[06:39] <mako> but if it's simple
[06:39] <tvon> s0dak1ng: mailing list
[06:39] <jdub> s0dak1ng: we have mailing lists, forums coming soon :)
[06:39] <mako> s0dak1ng: there will be one
[06:39] <schweeb> phlaegel: it's like having a boberz, but in #ubuntu :p
[06:39] <mako> s0dak1ng: not yet
[06:39] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  I have a linux-rescue-cd that CAN resize NTFS partions.. but not sure if this disrtos installer can do that as well.
[06:39] <s0dak1ng> no php/vBBS/invision boards??????????....haha
[06:39] <phlaegel> schweeb: heh
[06:39] <Dr_Willis> anyone know? - Can The Ubuntu Installer resize a ntfs partition?
[06:40] <jdub> Dr_Willis: it doesn't do ntfs resize
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> jdub,  diddly dang. :P
[06:40] <jdub> yeah :|
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> gotta find that other cd then Lol
[06:40] <xxor> jdub: how bigs the development team
[06:40] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:oh well..reformat then?
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> it was somthing linux-rescue cd
[06:40] <fabbione> mdz: did you build the nv driver on amd64?
[06:40] <tseng> xxor: 34
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  NO :P no need to reformat.
[06:40] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:do you have partition pro magic?
[06:40] <jdub> xxor: 34 employees of canonical, about half working directly on the distro
[06:40] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  No need for that either. Thers a Live cd w0th 'qt_Parted' that CAN resize NTFS's
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> I used it all the time :) sort of a opensourced PM clone
[06:41] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:aight..whatever u say..just do it fast!
[06:41] <Dr_Willis> if i can find the cd
[06:41] <mdz> fabbione: no, I haven't yet
[06:41] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:quix quix
[06:41] <mdz> fabbione: I forgot in my sleeplessness
[06:42] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:there is also progeny debian linux ..try that as well!
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: :-)))
[06:42] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  all at once! :P
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: no big deal
[06:42] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:and libranet
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: i386 reports 4/5 success. the 1 missing is a small glitch that i think i know how to solve
[06:43] <xxor> jdub: if its released for free, I dont see the incentive for full-time corp. development
[06:44] <xxor> jdub: the team is made up from various industry people right ? people from gnome/project etc .. its not a physical building with 34 actual employees coding right ?
[06:44] <mdz> xxor: correct, they are spread out
[06:44] <jdub> tseng: do you want to post your repositories to ubuntu-devel?
[06:44] <Dr_Willis> for those that want to know --->  http://www.sysresccd.org/   is the home of the "SytemRescueCD" a live cd. that has qtparted (a partion magic clone) and other tools.
[06:45] <Dr_Willis> its WELL worth downloading and having a cd of it in your tool box. 
[06:45] <Dr_Willis> :P
[06:45] <schweeb> I quite dislike qtparted
[06:45] <clee> schweeb: heh. why?
[06:45] <Dr_Willis> schweeb,  it works for me. 
[06:45] <schweeb> well, for one thing, if you X out of it, it doesn't ask you if you want to commit
[06:45] <tseng> jdub: this is my first time working with debs in several years
[06:46] <tseng> jdub: so.. it might take awhile :)
[06:46] <schweeb> which got me not once, but twice
[06:46] <Dr_Willis> X out of it. :P thats an interesting "verb"
[06:46] <schweeb> heh
[06:46] <xxor> found a solution
[06:46] <xxor> to some bugs
[06:46] <npmccallum> tseng: are you doing just mono? or monodevelop (et al) as well?
[06:46] <xxor> :P
[06:46] <jdub> tseng: ok ;)
[06:46] <schweeb> mmm mono
[06:46] <Dr_Willis> i had to explaine to several windows users to be sure to "write" changes to disk when useing fdisk.
[06:46] <tseng> npmccallum: right now im shooting to get mono working + muine
[06:46] <jdub> tseng: are you building from universe sources or from debian sid?
[06:46] <tseng> and blam
[06:46] <tseng> jdub: from sid
[06:46] <npmccallum> tseng: cool
[06:46] <jdub> tseng: ok
[06:46] <tseng> it seems to have a "circular dep" if you will
[06:47] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:have u tried the latest windows xp 64 beta?
[06:47] <tvon> tseng: I was able to install/build mono packages from sid without any problems.  You need to have mcs to build mcs which is kind of a pain, but I just fetched that from unstable
[06:47] <tseng> ie, i need to install a binary of mono compiler to build the deps to install the mono compiler :)
[06:47] <jdub> tseng: (kinda necessary for the latest mono-based apps, but if you have fixes for the packages in universe, we can fix them)
[06:47] <tseng> yep yep
[06:47] <xxor> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
[06:48] <Dr_Willis> s0dak1ng,  ive heard to AVOIDE it like the Plague :P
[06:48] <schweeb> hrm
[06:48] <tseng> jdub: im fetching the sources from sid, and rebuilding against ubuntu basically..
[06:48] <schweeb> when is mono expected to make it in to main?
[06:48] <tseng> when its all done daniels said he'll host it
[06:48] <jdub> tseng: yeah
[06:48] <tseng> schweeb: next release
[06:48] <schweeb> Hoary?
[06:49] <jdub> schweeb: yeah
[06:49] <tseng> yes that
[06:49] <s0dak1ng> dr_willis:okay the zip file is erased from my hd as if it was the plague
[06:49] <xxor> whats dev chan
[06:50] <tvon> hrmph
[06:50] <schweeb> man, downloading warty over 384kbit cable sucks
[06:50] <schweeb> 2hrs+
[06:50] <schweeb> ;_;
[06:50] <s0dak1ng> what forum software are you guys going to use?
[06:50] <tritium> jdub: care to comment on what you meant by "interesting KDE stuff on the way" in the OSNews interview? :)
[06:50] <xxor> schweeb: got it in 20 minutes on this cable .. its 5Mb/sec
[06:50] <clee> s'all about cable and bittorrent
[06:50] <clee> mmm, bittorrent
[06:50] <clee> jdub: what kind of numbers are you guys seeing on downloads?
[06:50] <mdz> s0dak1ng: I'm not sure that it's been decided yet; do you have any recommendations?
[06:51] <Dr_Willis> super fast for me clee
[06:51] <jdub> clee: INSANE bittorrent stats
[06:51] <jdub> mdz: got stats?
[06:51] <Dr_Willis> clee,  over 400k/s
[06:51] <schweeb> xxor: well, I'm doing a netinstall
[06:51] <xxor> that u.k mirror I was getting over 400K
[06:51] <clee> jdub: I downloaded the i386 ISO over bt
[06:51] <s0dak1ng> mdz:well from my experience the top 3 is definitely phpbbs/vBBS and Invision
[06:51] <mdz> jdub: what, like ISO downloads?
[06:51] <jdub> tritium: soon, soon :)
[06:51] <tseng> daniel said he was getting 100mbs
[06:51] <schweeb> so I'm installing as I download
[06:51] <xxor> jdub: dev chan ?
[06:51] <tseng> from his torrent
[06:51] <s0dak1ng> mdz:just have to pick one from those 3
[06:51] <neighborlee> 56 minutes ;-0
[06:51] <jdub> xxor: sorry?
[06:51] <tritium> jdub: okay, patience is a virtue, yeah, yeah
[06:51] <mdz> s0dak1ng: is there any forum software which _isn't_ full of cross-site scripting vulnerabilities? ;-)
[06:51] <neighborlee> I downloaded wrong darn one first time:((barf..ie: amd LOL
[06:51] <xxor> jdub: is there a development chan on freenode
[06:51] <jdub> xxor: this is it.
[06:51] <dieman> mdz: im using phorum at work, its somewhat hackable
[06:52] <jdub> xxor: for the time being, we may split off developer discussion later.
[06:52] <mdz> xxor: this was it, until today when it became more general
[06:52] <dieman> mdz: i like it, but dono if its full of cross-site issues or not or not :)
[06:52] <tritium> :)
[06:52] <s0dak1ng> mdz:check their mainpages..i can't comment on that since i am a newbie lol
[06:52] <tvon> mdz: the site is plone, CMFBoard is pretty good for that :)
[06:52] <xxor> jdub: Ive never made packages before , is it easy ?
[06:52] <jdub> xxor: hrm, sometimes
[06:52] <tseng> xxor, google the debian developer handbook
[06:53] <tseng> its all easy to find.
[06:53] <tvon> deb's are a little harder than rpm's, but fairly easy once you've gotten your feet wet
[06:53] <xxor> tseng: sorry for polling , I know about the handbook
[06:53] <s0dak1ng> okay i will download the torrent adn reserve enough hd just for dr_willis to try it first..
[06:53] <s0dak1ng> if it works for him i will play with linux again for the first time in a year
[06:53] <s0dak1ng> after a year
[06:54] <s0dak1ng> woops
[06:54] <mdz> xxor: well-behaved software is easier to package than ill, and simple software easier than complex, generally
[06:55] <mdz> xxor: it ranges from just dropping files in the right places, to robustly handling database conversions and the like
[06:55] <xxor> mdz: ah
[06:56] <xxor> bleh , how do I setup ATAPI under 2.6.x
[06:56] <schweeb> it's already set up
[06:56] <mdz> it should just work
[06:56] <xxor> cdrecord --scanbus gives me nothing 0_o
[06:56] <xxor> cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg*'. Cannot open SCSI driver.
[06:56] <schweeb> cdrecord -dev=atapi -scanbus
[06:57] <schweeb> then: cdrecord -dev=atapi:<LUN> -scanbus
[06:57] <xxor> Warning: Open by 'devname' is unintentional and not supported.
[06:57] <xxor> cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open 'atapi'. Cannot open SCSI driver.
[06:57] <tvon> cdrecord -dev=/dev/whateva   has worked for me
[06:57] <mdz> cdrecord is...disagreeable about this
[06:57] <mdz> but dev=/dev/hdc or similar works fine
[06:57] <schweeb> yea
[06:57] <schweeb> do you have ide-cd loaded, xxor?
[06:58] <schweeb> lsmod | grep ide-cd to check
[06:58] <xxor> yea
[06:58] <schweeb> try -dev=ata -scanbus then
[06:58] <schweeb> or, do as they say, and point dev at the dev node
[06:58] <xxor> 0_o
[06:59] <schweeb> this is a 2.6 thing, not a ubuntu thing.
[06:59] <schweeb> well, 2.6/cdrecord
[06:59] <schweeb> clashing of developers.
[06:59] <xxor> ok well
[06:59] <xxor> /dev/name works
[06:59] <xxor> /dev/hda /dev/hdd (cd burner hda , dvd burner hdd)
[07:00] <bob2> wow
[07:00] <fabbione> mdz: do you mind a test build on ppc too?
[07:00] <xxor> problem is .. no graphical cd burning apps , support that bullshit
[07:01] <xxor> so .. hrm , gotta fix it somehow
[07:01] <schweeb> most of them support it somehow
[07:01] <jdub> xxor: we have nautilus-cd-burner, which is integrated into the file manager
[07:01] <tvon> nautilus-cd-burner is enough for most users
[07:01] <schweeb> most of the apps are wrappers around another library or program 
[07:01] <schweeb> ^^^^
[07:01] <aethyr> hey guys, running ubuntu ;)
[07:01] <jdub> aethyr: yay! :)
[07:02] <bskahan> gcombust supports ata dev arguments
[07:02] <aethyr> the mouse speed is cranked on this distro ;)
[07:02] <aethyr> hehehe
[07:02] <bskahan> gcombust sucks on the gnome 1.x front though
[07:02] <phlaegel> I have the same problem with a scsi burner... a fix would be nice to find. it doesn't show up in nautilus-cd-burner or anything.
[07:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> gcombust is a terrrible travesty of UI
[07:02] <xxor> k3b is the best burning app Ive seen so far
[07:02] <xxor> going to add queue support for it
[07:02] <bskahan> Hrdwr_BoB: amen
[07:02] <npmccallum> aethyr: actually the mouse speed is handled by the kernel
[07:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> phlaegel, everyone hates SCSI burners now
[07:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> xxor, yes, k3b is good
[07:02] <phlaegel> yeah, but I still have one I'd like to be able to use...
[07:03] <aethyr> npmccallum: hm, it's good bit faster than my gentoo with 2.6.8.1-ck7
[07:03] <aethyr> not horribly so, just noticibly so
[07:03] <Hrdwr_BoB> phlaegel, yeah so I do, I mostly use command line though
[07:03] <sdfs23423> aethyr:whats faster than gentoo?
[07:03] <npmccallum> aethyr: are you using /dev/input/mice on gentoo in your X config?
[07:03] <xxor> I prefer gnome , but kde has some real good apps too
[07:03] <mdz> fabbione: no problem
[07:03] <phlaegel> I usually do to, but nautilus covers most of my burning needs, so I'd like to use it
[07:03] <mdz> I'll turn the boxes on now
[07:03] <mdz> fabbione: where is the source again?
[07:04] <Hrdwr_BoB> when you say 'faster' what do you mean
[07:04] <schweeb> npmccallum: it's a combo of the WM and kernel
[07:04] <neighborlee> xxor: ditto that
[07:04] <schweeb> and X itself has a resolution setting that can effect sensitivity iirc
[07:04] <aethyr> npmccallum, yup
[07:04] <neighborlee> xxor: one of my favs is that kde modeler based on POV...very interesting
[07:04] <npmccallum> schweeb: yes
[07:05] <npmccallum> schweeb: that was my next question :)
[07:05] <aethyr> the install is very nice though on Ubuntu, best install I've seen for a Debian based distro
[07:05] <aethyr> picked up all my hardware
[07:05] <tory> I just finished installing ubuntu. Aside from the name, I'm in love :-)
[07:05] <npmccallum> aethyr: good
[07:05] <sdfs23423> aethyr:did u say ubunku is faster than gentoo?
[07:05] <aethyr> I think the name is pretty cool 
[07:05] <schweeb> npmccallum: ;)
[07:05] <tory> This is honestly the greatest distro I've ever tried. It's like debian but it actually works right out of the box.
[07:05] <neighborlee> aethyr, wow thats wonderful..look fwd to it with zest now .heh..
[07:05] <aethyr> sdfs23423, haha, I said the mouse was faster than gentoo ;)
[07:05] <sdfs23423> oh
[07:05] <xxor> gcc not installed by default hehe
[07:05] <aethyr> I inadvertantly set off the marketing campaign
[07:06] <neighborlee> aethyr, seems doubtful long as 2.6.x is used
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> nothing is faster than gentoo
[07:06] <aethyr> Ubuntu: Faster than Gentoo
[07:06] <mdz> tory: thanks for the compliments
[07:06] <jdub> tory: cool!
[07:06] <tseng> what is this fast mouse silliness
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> gentoo is 100x faster than debian in all tests*
[07:06] <sdfs23423> hrdwr_bob:i hear yoper is!
[07:06] <tseng> the acceleration is set higher
[07:06] <tory> tseng: just turn down the mouse speed
[07:06] <aethyr> neighborlee, it definately is, I don't know why, but it's zippy
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> * tests not actual tests
[07:06] <tvon> Hrdwr_BoB: heh
[07:06] <tseng> tory: not me, them.
[07:06] <schweeb> npmccallum: I remember when I installed 2.5.6something and had X pointed at /dev/psaux and /dev/input/mice... much to my surprise, my mouse was moving literally twice as faste, cause of the ps2 module changes, heh
[07:06] <xxor> tseng: yeah , my desktop seems MUCH quicker .. not just the mouse either 
[07:06] <tseng> so much FUD.
[07:06] <tory> jdub: another nice thing is that the menus are simple to use
[07:06] <Hrdwr_BoB> lol schweeb
[07:06] <tseng> xxor: it is using nptl
[07:06] <jdub> mdz: when was the last cd build?
[07:07] <npmccallum> schweeb: yeah, that tricked me out too
[07:07] <jdub> tory: no crap! :)
[07:07] <schweeb> took me like a week to figure that out
[07:07] <aethyr> it is a very smooth desktop though out of the box, I want to play with some of the GNOME 2.8 stuff :)
[07:07] <xxor> native posix thread ?
[07:07] <schweeb> so I just plugged in a damn USB mouse
[07:07] <schweeb> lol
[07:07] <jdub> tory: i mean, there isn't any crap,. hrm ;)
[07:07] <tory> hehe
[07:07] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, 100x would seem to be a slight exageration <G>
[07:07] <tory> is there anyway to install msttcorefonts so I can get arial?
[07:07] <soda> aethyr: u like it so far?
[07:07] <jdub> aethyr: stick in a usb storage device :)
[07:07] <mdz> xxor: several people have said that it subjectively seems fast; perhaps because of 2.6 by default (compared to Debian), newer versions of some software, etc.
[07:08] <schweeb> I seem to remember reading msttcorefonts being in main
[07:08] <Hrdwr_BoB> neighborlee, if I didn't make it crazy, some idiot would beleive me
[07:08] <aethyr> soda, indeed I do, absolutely no hiccups on install
[07:08] <jdub> tory: i think they are available in universe
[07:08] <mdz> jdub: the last CD build was the preview
[07:08] <neighborlee> Hrdwr_BoB, ROFL
[07:08] <aethyr> jdub, yea, I'm getting some stuff to plug in now
[07:08] <schweeb> or maybe I lie
[07:08] <schweeb> heh
[07:08] <tory> jdub: ok
[07:08] <jdub> mdz: tops
[07:08] <mdz> jdub: finished a bit after 1400 UTC
[07:08] <tritium> my mouse was fast when I had both a Generic Mouse and a Configured Mouse configured as InputDevices in my XF86Config-4
[07:08] <tseng> another circle here.. need to install monodoc to build gtk-sharp
[07:09] <tseng> gtk-sharp needs monodoc
[07:09] <soda> will ubuntu support my radeon 9600 card?
[07:09] <xxor> well , almost have my system back to normal
[07:09] <xxor> heh
[07:09] <aethyr> jdub: is the gtk theme based on indubstrial? (I am running Indubstrial with GNOME 2.6 on my Gentoo install).
[07:10] <mdz> soda: do you have the PCI IDs for the exact card?
[07:10] <aethyr> looks similar
[07:10] <jdub> aethyr: yeah, just with added brown ;)
[07:10] <aethyr> excellent :)
[07:10] <jdub> tory: actually, msttcorefonts is not there, i'll check why
[07:10] <mdz> jdub: because it's in contrib/non-free
[07:10] <schweeb> jdub: thought I read somewhere in the wiki that msttcorefonts was being considered for main, regardless of the legal aspect... (no browser yet to confirm)
[07:10] <jdub> mdz: mm, just remembered
[07:11] <neighborlee> doesn't matter but...did you guys put in synatpic as default UI to apt ?
[07:11] <jdub> tory: you can add debian's contrib/non-free lines, they work reasonably well (not a lot of dependency issues tehre... ;)
[07:11] <jdub> neighborlee: yes, for this release
[07:12] <neighborlee> jdub: ic..what are you going for in next
[07:12] <bob2> hm, I wonder if clug wants a demo
[07:12] <jdub> neighborlee: got some funky plans for an easy install/uninstall proggie and update notifier
[07:12] <jdub> neighborlee: see the HoaryHedgehog page on the wiki
[07:12] <soda> mdz:maybe 4150 to 4152
[07:12] <neighborlee> jdub: ok will do
[07:12] <neighborlee> jdub: very nice..I like innovation ;-00
[07:12] <aethyr> wow, I just noticed the desktop is clean??
[07:13] <JADuncan> No root account by default?
[07:13] <JADuncan> :O
[07:13] <jdub> JADuncan: it's disabled, everything uses sudo :-)
[07:13] <neighborlee> jdub: please consider ( unless you already are) a panel applet notifier for updating
[07:13] <jdub> neighborlee: yes, will definitely have that
[07:13] <aethyr> yea, how does the no root thing work anyways?
[07:13] <npmccallum> neighborlee: we already are
[07:13] <neighborlee> kewl guys
[07:13] <JADuncan> is that not a little insecure?
[07:13] <aethyr> I never put in any root password
[07:13] <mdz> fabbione: do we support radeon R300 with the xfree86 driver?
[07:13] <jdub> aethyr: the first user has full sudo access
[07:13] <aethyr> jdub: ah, ok
[07:13] <jdub> JADuncan: nup :)
[07:13] <mdz> daniels: same question?
[07:13] <jdub> JADuncan: it's disabled, not no-password :)
[07:14] <npmccallum> mdz: you have an R300 in your thinkpad, don't you?
[07:14] <soda> mdz:i think its RV350
[07:14] <JADuncan> the only thing that would worry me about that is that it means that any exploitation of the user account leads directly to full system control
[07:14] <soda> mdz:oh well, i will know the answer as soon as dr_willis try it
[07:14] <mdz> npmccallum: I have a mobility M7, which is like a radeon 7500
[07:15] <mdz> which is RV200 I think
[07:15] <Nafai> jdub: Holding up to the slashdoting? :)
[07:15] <JADuncan> or does sudo still require a password eg mac osx?
[07:15] <npmccallum> mdz: oh, I have the Fire GL something or other which is the M10 I think
[07:15] <mdz> soda: I think it's supported at least in 2D, and we'll have the ATI binary driver easily installable very soon
[07:15] <soda> try here
[07:15] <jdub> JADuncan: sudo to root requires the user password
[07:15] <soda> http://pciids.sourceforge.net/pci.ids
[07:15] <npmccallum> mdz: its either R300 or R350, but it works great with ubuntu
[07:16] <aethyr> here's an odd question: I noticed that XChat is setup to use Monospace, yet my fonts don't look like monospace to me (the "l" has a little loopy thing on the bottom).  Are these regular bitstream vera fonts?
[07:16] <mdz> s0dak1ng: best to just try it and see :-)
[07:16] <s0dak1ng> mdz:i am sure 2d will work..
[07:16] <s0dak1ng> md:yah..i will try it
[07:17] <s0dak1ng> md:can u give me the amd64 btlink?
[07:17] <mdz> sure
[07:17] <mdz> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/warty-amd64.iso.torrent
[07:17] <JADuncan> jdub: you don't mind a bit of questioning right?
[07:17] <aethyr> jeff's fielding questions like a pro ;)
[07:18] <JADuncan> jdub: I am curious as to how stable the prerelease is as I have a friend who is being converted to Linux by me (I run sid) and this looks a little more user friendly out of the box.
[07:20] <jdub> JADuncan: it's very stable
[07:20] <xxor> JADuncan: mdk works better out of the box
[07:21] <aethyr> jdub: what's the relationship with sid anyways? I know it says on the webpage, but I mean do you guys branch off sid?  I noticed some of the packages have a -ubuntu suffix.
[07:21] <jdub> aethyr: we branch off sid, yes
[07:21] <tvon> jdub | mdz: http://bskahan.etria.com/
[07:21] <jdub> aethyr: we freeze, fix and push :)
[07:21] <JADuncan> xxor: mdk lacks a few too many packages for me
[07:21] <aethyr> cool
[07:21] <xxor> burning , sound , and pretty much everything needs CONFIGURED
[07:21] <aethyr> this is my first time in anything debian based for about 3 years
[07:22] <JADuncan> xxor: though I do think some of the config apps are nice
[07:22] <xxor> and without command line experience , module expereince , package experience , this dist is pretty shitty for a newbie
[07:22] <aethyr> er, at least on my personal system, we have computer labs that use debian.
[07:22] <mdz> aethyr: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship/document_view
[07:22] <sanxiyn> JADuncan: Eh, even with Cooker?
[07:22] <xxor> oh well , I was sick of mdk anyway .. I wanted debian back and this is close enough 
[07:22] <mdz> aethyr: that page explains a bit about how we relate to Debian
[07:22] <xxor> anyone remember 'storm' linux ?
[07:22] <xxor> now that was fucked up debian heh
[07:22] <xxor> nothing in that pile worked
[07:23] <JADuncan> Sanxiyn:  Cooker is slightly better but debian unstable is at 14.5k packages
[07:23] <xxor> got it in an issue of maximum linux in like .. 99 I think
[07:23] <mdz> xxor: I have a laptop here that I use for ubuntu install testing.  it has a DVD burner attached.  I install ubuntu, boot it up, play music, and burn DVDs
[07:23] <xxor> any idea why sound isnt working ?
[07:23] <mdz> xxor: so if it isn't working for you, it's a bug
[07:23] <JADuncan> Sanxiyn: and the main benefit is not just the number but Debian policy.
[07:23] <xxor> mdz: my ass
[07:23] <xxor> mdz: mdk and debian work out of the box .. this is jacked
[07:24] <mdz> xxor: I don't understand what you're saying.  I said it was a bug, and you disagreed with me.  What do you mean to say?
[07:24] <schweeb> try installing from d-i at the moment, xxor, and you'll find yourself wrong
[07:24] <Nafai> xxor: This is a *pre-release* btw
[07:25] <aethyr> mdz: thanks for that link, that clarifies the relationship a bit
[07:25] <Nafai> I installed with the d-i just yesterday. :)
[07:25] <schweeb> Nafai: it's quite nice
[07:25] <jdub> mdz: hey, i got the bsdutils thing
[07:25] <jdub> mdz: just doing an integrity check
[07:25] <xxor> I installed with d-i
[07:25] <schweeb> but some of the stuff still requires cmdline, Nafai 
[07:25] <xxor> hehe
[07:25] <mdz> jdub: oh? interesting
[07:25] <schweeb> OSS and ALSA drivers loaded
[07:25] <schweeb> I understand it's fixed not
[07:25] <jdub> mdz: check didn't even start and it said, "no valid ubuntu cd-rom"
[07:25] <schweeb> *now
[07:26] <aethyr> woah, I'm not sure what happened, but when I changed my time my desktop faded out, then faded back in?  ... never seen that one happen before
[07:26] <mdz> jdub: md5 OK?
[07:26] <mdz> aethyr: sounds like it caused the screensaver to activate
[07:26] <xxor> ok , I found the problem with sound
[07:26] <jdub> mdz: just running it now
[07:26] <xxor> I have a ONboard soundcard , (bleh) I have to disable the modules from loading
[07:26] <schweeb> can't you disable the onboard in the BIOS?
[07:27] <schweeb> then hotplug/discover won't find the device to load the modules
[07:27] <mdz> why is it a problem for the modules to be loaded?
[07:27] <xxor> schweeb: I thought I had it disabled in BIOS *Shrug* .. power outage ++ onboard battary is out
[07:27] <xxor> prob went back to default
[07:27] <xxor> brb
[07:27] <xxor> reboot
[07:28] <schweeb> sweet, finally done downloading all the packages
[07:28] <mdz> fabbione: where is the source you want me to build for nv?
[07:28] <mdz> schweeb: doing a network install?
[07:28] <jdub> mdz: hrm, can't md5sum it - i/o error
[07:29] <schweeb> mdz: yea, from the mini.iso
[07:29] <Nafai> I wonder if I will have a reason / opportunity to try ubuntu out sometime...
[07:29] <schweeb> workin quite well
[07:29] <mdz> schweeb: oh, good
[07:29] <schweeb> I would recommend a mini.iso + base udebs though
[07:29] <jdub> mdz: must've made a coaster
[07:29] <mdz> schweeb: would you mind sending an install report to the mailing list when it's done?  if you encounter any problem, we want to hear about those of course, but also if it works
[07:29] <schweeb> no prob
[07:30] <mdz> thanks
[07:30] <schweeb> user or dev list?
[07:30] <aethyr> doh, no dvd support?
[07:30] <aethyr> libdvdread: Encrypted DVD support unavailable.
[07:30] <mdz> schweeb: users, that's where everyone is currently
[07:31] <mdz> aethyr: no decss, no :-)
[07:31] <jdub> aethyr: no, difficult legal issues
[07:31] <schweeb> mdz: you guys want any specific files generated by the installer included?
[07:31] <mdz> schweeb: if you have problems, /var/log/debian-installer and /var/log/base-config.log
[07:32] <JADuncan> are you going to make a semi-easy shortcut to decss and other such things?
[07:32] <JADuncan> maybe a non-US server
[07:32] <schweeb> mdz: <3 netinstalls so much
[07:33] <aethyr> well, inserting data cds works
[07:33] <aethyr> ;)
[07:34] <xxorroxx> woowee , sound works !
[07:34] <spikeb> well
[07:34] <xxorroxx> hehe
[07:34] <spikeb> this is pretty darn nice
[07:34] <aethyr> yea, sound works out of the box, that was nice
[07:34] <spikeb> but i have an issue, heh.
[07:34] <aethyr> spikeb: what's up?
[07:34] <xxorroxx> are the pointeres gnome specific or X or what
[07:34] <xxorroxx> they look sweat
[07:35] <npmccallum> JADuncan: all our servers so far are nonUS servers, that doesn't avoid the legal issues though
[07:35] <xxorroxx> sweet rather
[07:35] <aethyr> it's Whiteglass, I believe
[07:35] <aethyr> anyone can use them with XFree/Xorg
[07:35] <spikeb> aethyr, nautilus isn't showing any desktop icons for me.
[07:35] <aethyr> spikeb: the desktop is clean :)
[07:35] <aethyr> it's a feature
[07:35] <aethyr> hehe
[07:35] <xxorroxx> hehe
[07:35] <spikeb> ok
[07:35] <xxorroxx> that is pretty cool
[07:35] <clee> no, it's not whiteglass
[07:35] <clee> it's jimmac
[07:35] <spikeb> aethyr, how do i fix that ? heh
[07:35] <aethyr> yea, I thought nautilus grashed
[07:35] <pitti> Morning guys
[07:35] <bskahan> out of curiosity, e-d-s support isn't compiled into the panel?
[07:35] <aethyr> "crashed"
[07:35] <clee> unless I'm completely wrong and it changed
[07:36] <aethyr> clee: I might be wrong, it lokoed like whiteglass to me
[07:36] <jdub> bskahan: it is
[07:36] <bskahan> hrm, 
[07:36] <schweeb> I have a question... everyone's complaining about the lack of desktop icons - this a gnome 2.8 thing, or a ubuntu decision?  just curious, and I'm about 5 mins from having a browser
[07:36] <jdub> schweeb: ubuntu
[07:36] <jdub> schweeb: faq entry in a minute
[07:36] <Remmy> I never see my desktop anyways
[07:36] <xxorroxx> aethyr: question , why does every folder open a new window when I double click like win95 heh , can I change that ?
[07:36] <Remmy> I use it to run programs, not to look at icons :)
[07:36] <spikeb> jdub, including how to change it?
[07:36] <npmccallum> schweeb: ubuntu decision
[07:37] <tseng> jdub: i got it mate.
[07:37] <jdub> spikeb: heh, okay :)
[07:37] <spikeb> xxorroxx, yes you can. by default nautilus doesnt use browser mode
[07:37] <tseng> jdub: running muine now
[07:37] <jdub> tseng: sweet :)
[07:37] <tseng> :)
[07:37] <aethyr> xxorroxx: I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not ;)
[07:37] <sanxiyn> tseng: muine here, too. (Sid :-)
[07:37] <aethyr> xxorroxx: but yea, you can change it (as of GNOME 2.8)
[07:37] <jdub> tseng: daniel is on a plane atm, btw ;)
[07:37] <tseng> ah yeah
[07:37] <xxorroxx> aethyr: fixed it
[07:37] <spikeb> xxorroxx, in the computer menu, go to desktop preferences, and file management. you'll see something about a browser mode - that's what you need
[07:37] <spikeb> bah
[07:37] <spikeb> im too slow
[07:37] <aethyr> spikeb: hold on, I'm working on fixing your problem
[07:37] <tseng> jdub: i need help setting up an apt repo
[07:37] <spikeb> aethyr, ok
[07:38] <tseng> jdub: im just doing dpkg -i
[07:38] <tseng> or i can mail you the goods
[07:38] <spikeb> once i know how to "fix" my "problem" i can decide which way i like better...heh
[07:38] <tseng> i have blam built also
[07:39] <tseng> sanxiyn: i rebuilt everything against warty
[07:39] <sanxiyn> tseng: Aha.
[07:39] <tseng> yeah, a bit more challenging :)
[07:39] <spikeb> this is gonna rock - a stable, Free, updated Debian distro.
[07:39] <tseng> not too bad though
[07:39] <sanxiyn> tseng: Was building NAnt easy?
[07:39] <tseng> nant?
[07:39] <tseng> i built no such thing
[07:39] <sanxiyn> tseng: Yep. (I had some problems.)
[07:39] <schweeb> alright, went through a netinstall with a total of zero visible errors
[07:39] <sanxiyn> Ah. Good for you.
[07:40] <xxorroxx> can rythmbox 'burn by album'
[07:40] <xxorroxx> that would be awsome+=
[07:40] <tseng> no
[07:40] <sanxiyn> It seems most Gtk# programs do provide ./configure; make, but other C# programs uses NAnt (like Apache Ant) or worse, Visual Studio project file.
[07:40] <aethyr> spikeb: ok, I think you can go to gconf-editor and to go apps -> nautilus -> desktop -> *_icon_visible (click whatever you want to see)
[07:40] <spikeb> ok
[07:40] <xxorroxx> burn_album (convert to wav) burn_at_speed (delete wavs) 
[07:41] <spikeb> aethyr, i'll give that a shot
[07:41] <xxorroxx> I'll add the module for burning
[07:41] <xxorroxx> screw it
[07:42] <xxorroxx> bored anyways
[07:42] <aethyr> this is really well put together for a preview release, I'm impressed :)
[07:42] <aethyr> good job ubuntu
[07:43] <sanxiyn> prj2make can convert Visual Studio project to Makefile, and while it works, I don't like it very much. :(
[07:43] <xxorroxx> if it could install any kde package , itd be straight
[07:43] <npmccallum> aethyr: thanks, were glad to have you here to test it :)
[07:43] <spikeb> ahh there we go
[07:43] <spikeb> aethyr, thanks for the help
[07:43] <aethyr> it doesn't hurt that it's running my favorite DE ;)
[07:43] <aethyr> spikeb: np
[07:43] <spikeb> yes, this IS very well put together for a preview release.
[07:43] <spikeb> and also running MY favorite DE. :)
[07:43] <amit> im surprised that ubuntu actually supports ppc
[07:44] <amit> anyone here tried it
[07:44] <spikeb> yes
[07:44] <spikeb> im on it right now.
[07:44] <aethyr> amit: sorry, I don't have a mac :(
[07:44] <Hrdwr_BoB> a lot of the ubuntu developers use powerbooks
[07:44] <aethyr> but if you buy me an iBook, I'd be happy to help test it
[07:44] <aethyr> hehe
[07:44] <amit> wow
[07:44] <spikeb> amit, i have ubuntu on my ibook
[07:44] <spikeb> :)
[07:44] <spikeb> workin just dandy
[07:44] <amit> planning to install it on my home desktop
[07:44] <amit> i was actually planning to install debian but...i heard the installation system for ubuntu was great
[07:45] <spikeb> my desktop has Syllable (another open source OS) on it. :)
[07:45] <aethyr> spikeb: how does linux run in terms of suspending and speedstep (or whatever it's called on macs)
[07:45] <spikeb> amit, it is.
[07:45] <spikeb> aethyr, on my gen ibook, it's flawless
[07:45] <xxorroxx> multiple id3 tag edit (multiple track edit) doesnt work with rythmbox
[07:45] <spikeb> everything on this ibook is supported by linux.
[07:45] <amit> man im really starting to get impressed by ubunut
[07:45] <npmccallum> spikeb: Syllable is quite interesting
[07:45] <spikeb> npmccallum, yes it is :)
[07:46] <amit> so how does apt work....does ubuntu use debian sources?
[07:46] <jdub> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#preview
[07:46] <spikeb> no, it uses ubuntu sources.
[07:46] <aethyr> just a suggestion from a gentoo user, you guys might want to give some thought into setting up a forum
[07:46] <jdub> ^ point 13 about desktop icons
[07:46] <npmccallum> spikeb: some things about it I really like, others I don't... You get that with any OS though
[07:46] <aethyr> the gentoo forums are a pretty big hit
[07:46] <spikeb> npmccallum, that's very true. especially young ones.
[07:46] <spikeb> forums are always good. :)
[07:46] <xxorroxx> Rythmbox integration as an applet into the panel , is a VERY nice feature
[07:46] <npmccallum> aethyr: I'm also a gentoo dev, forums are in the works
[07:46] <thaytan> Kamion: awake?
[07:46] <spikeb> npmccallum, you're all over the open source world aren't you
[07:47] <npmccallum> spikeb: I try :)
[07:47] <aethyr> npmccallum: hah, how many machines do you have? ;)
[07:47] <amit> so any tips on installing it on a Mac?
[07:47] <spikeb> well that rocks
[07:47] <amit> or is it pretty straight forward
[07:47] <jdub> amit: stick the cd in, reboot ;)
[07:47] <xxorroxx> amit: I dont think there is a ppc build at the moment
[07:47] <spikeb> amit, boot from the cd, follow the install, reboot, login
[07:47] <spikeb> yes ther eis xxorroxx
[07:47] <jdub> xxorroxx: there definitely is :)
[07:47] <spikeb> Linux zeus 2.6.8.1-2-powerpc #1 Tue Sep 14 07:36:05 UTC 2004 ppc GNU/Linux
[07:47] <npmccallum> aethyr: two, my dev box and my server.  Server never gets touched though
[07:47] <xxorroxx> no shit , I didnt see it , thats awsome
[07:47] <xxorroxx> I want a copy for my G5
[07:47] <schweeb> wow, I like this install a lot
[07:47] <spikeb> amit, the install is text based, but VERY easy to follow.
[07:47] <aethyr> npmccallum: so are you just gonna develop for both?
[07:48] <amit> awesome! how long is the install?
[07:48] <spikeb> hmm
[07:48] <schweeb> 20 mins or so
[07:48] <aethyr> amit: about 25 min?
[07:48] <spikeb> that i can't tell you - i wasn't paying attention
[07:48] <xxorroxx> spikeb: what kinda mac you got
[07:48] <spikeb> i was watching a movie while it installed and i glanced over from time to time
[07:48] <spikeb> xxorroxx, G3 ibook 700mhz
[07:49] <xxorroxx> spikeb: dont ya like os x ?
[07:49] <spikeb> my favorite computer i've _ever_ had
[07:49] <spikeb> xxorroxx, not really
[07:49] <spikeb> it's good, but not very configurable
[07:49] <npmccallum> aethyr: right now (with a release pending) all my efforts are on ubuntu right now
[07:49] <npmccallum> canonical has some stuff in the works that will benefit all distros though, wait and see :)
[07:49] <spikeb> xxorroxx, I hate being shoved into a box by an OS - OSX and Windows both do that.
[07:50] <spikeb> plus, i am an open source zealot
[07:50] <jdub> aethyr: by day, npmccallum works on ubuntu, by night, he waits for gentoo builds to finish!
[07:50] <spikeb> lol jdub
[07:50] <spikeb> maybe he works on ubuntu while he's waiting for the compiles :)
[07:50] <spikeb> tseng, cool. good work :)
[07:50] <aethyr> jdub: pbthh ;)
[07:50] <tseng> thanks spike
[07:50] <spikeb> new evolution is pretty spiffy
[07:51] <tseng> agreed.
[07:51] <npmccallum> spikeb: when you're a dev, you have to wait for the compiles anyway ;)
[07:51] <spikeb> npmccallum, that you do
[07:51] <tseng> they released 2.0 right after i committed 1.5.94.1
[07:51] <aethyr> I use mutt :(
[07:51] <tseng> i cried
[07:51] <spikeb> mutt rocks too
[07:51] <aethyr> luckily it comes with mutt :)
[07:51] <spikeb> ooh
[07:51] <jdub> yay mutt!
[07:51] <spikeb> gotta change my clock format
[07:52] <jdub> yay evolution for everything else ;)
[07:52] <npmccallum> well, I have greek class in 6 hours, so I'm going to bed
[07:52] <npmccallum> night all
[07:52] <aethyr> npmccallum: later
[07:52] <spikeb> i have to note there doesn't seem to be button two and button three defined on the mac build
[07:52] <jdub> night npmccallum 
[07:52] <jdub> sleep well
[07:52] <tseng> same here
[07:52] <aethyr> spikeb: yea, I had to change mine too, I thought GNOME defaulted to 12 hour clock?
[07:52] <tseng> (class, bed)
[07:52] <npmccallum> jdub: I will, letting my compiles happen overnight ;)
[07:53] <npmccallum> jdub: and I actually don't have a gentoo install anywhere in the house right now :)
[07:53] <aethyr> jdub: where do you work anyways?  It doesn't seem like you work for a linux related company (at least you never mention it on planetgnome)
[07:53] <aethyr> I can only assume microsoft, hehe
[07:53] <jdub> aethyr: been working for canonical for ~6 months now :)
[07:54] <aethyr> oh ok, cool
[07:54] <spikeb> arg
[07:54] <jdub> aethyr: previously i did independent consulting, worked for isps, etc.
[07:55] <spikeb> i foudn it
[07:55] <aethyr> jdub: good job with GNOME 2.8 as well
[07:55] <spikeb> found, even.
[07:55] <spikeb> gnome 2.8 rocks.
[07:56] <aethyr> yea, I'm enjoying it so far
[07:56] <aethyr> I was a bit worried when I kept seeing all the freeze break requests ;)
[07:56] <aethyr> but nothing has blown up yet
[07:56] <sanxiyn> Hm. Perhaps this is inevitable: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-September/000019.html
[07:56] <schweeb> what's the "correct" way to install/set up the NVIDIA drivers in ubuntu?
[07:56] <spikeb> the ONLY bug i have found in the ppc install is pmu perms being broken
[07:56] <aethyr> heh, amusing considering someone made a post on /. earlier saying how all the distros were using KDE :P
[07:57] <jdub> aethyr: yeah, mostly pretty sane last minute things
[07:57] <aethyr> (or at least "most of the distros")
[07:57] <spikeb> aethyr, they are. im glad i found one with gnome
[07:57] <schweeb> apt-get install the restricted kernel modules, and then add the nvidia stuff to your config?  or is there some kind of X config program I should be using?
[07:57] <spikeb> as the supported default customized stuff
[07:57] <jblack> sanxiyn: Correct, ubuntu doesn't "do kde", however, its compatible with debian, so you can add a line to your sources.list and get kde.
[07:57] <aethyr> well, who knows what suse is doing (ok, well some people might, but they're probably under NDA)
[07:57] <spikeb> LOL
[07:57] <spikeb> good point.
[07:57] <fabbione> schweeb: install the linux-restriced and nvidia-glx
[07:58] <jblack> That's what I'm doing on my ubuntu system. http://mercury.linuxguru.net/~jblack/MixingUbuntuAndDebian.png
[07:58] <fabbione> schweeb: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[07:58] <schweeb> ahh, thx much
[07:58] <fabbione> schweeb: the first question will ask you about which driver you want to use.. select nvidia and so on...
[07:58] <sanxiyn> I hope it doesn't become GNOME vs KDE flamewar. UserLinux suffered from it in the beginning.
[07:58] <schweeb> fabbione: gotcha, done it a thousand times, just wanted the "ubuntu" way
[07:58] <fabbione> schweeb: all the other questions should be pre-answered with proper values
[07:59] <fabbione> schweeb: it will be simpler later..
[07:59] <aethyr> I don't understand why GNOME can't have a nice integrated distro without people having a fit
[07:59] <spikeb> sanxiyn, i know an easy way to have it not become that
[07:59] <schweeb> fabbione: understood
[07:59] <fabbione> ;)
[07:59] <spikeb> sanxiyn, one simple answer to that question - "because we wanted it that way"
[08:00] <jblack> spikeb: Or maybe it was too much to take on for the first version? 
[08:00] <ficusplanet> Was the smooth engine not included with Ubuntu?
[08:00] <schweeb> fabbione: kinda like the first few times in debian where you compile the kernel by hand, and then you find out about make-kpkg... better to do it the distro-preferred way ;)
[08:00] <aethyr> ficusplanet: no it is, it's Glider
[08:00] <aethyr> they changed the name for the release
[08:01] <fabbione> schweeb: ehehe there is no need to compile the driver..
[08:01] <fabbione> schweeb: even if you still get the nvidia-kernel-source
[08:01] <fabbione> schweeb: the binary kernel module is precompiled (if you use a standard kernel)
[08:01] <Nafai> Working for Canonical sounds like it would be fun...
[08:01] <spikeb> oooh family guy is on
[08:01] <fabbione> otherwise you got the sources :-)
[08:01] <ficusplanet> aethyr: As far as I can tell, though, the engine (Smooth Engine) isn't installed to make Glider look right.  I'm getting a boxy, non-Glider-like look over here.
[08:01] <spikeb> back lader folks
[08:01] <spikeb> later even
[08:02] <jblack> Nafai: Its a _lot_ of work, but you go to bed at night realizing you did good work. :) 
[08:02] <Nafai> jblack: Sounds like a good thing to me.
[08:02] <schweeb> fabbione: I mean the kernel in general
[08:02] <schweeb> fabbione: I do a lot with User Mode Linux, so I use a lot of patches
[08:02] <ficusplanet> aethyr: And I don't see libsmooth or libglider in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/engines
[08:02] <schweeb> fabbione: in fact, I'm IRCing from a UML
[08:03] <fabbione> schweeb: ehhe nice :-)
[08:03] <fabbione> schweeb: i have to assume that people don't always know stuff, when i am answering here.. at least in the beggining when i will picture who is who ;)
[08:03] <aethyr> ficusplanet: hm, I thought it was supposed to be integrated into gnome-themes ... you might have to defer to a GNOME maintainer... (the only one I know here is jdub...)
[08:04] <sanxiyn> Will Ubuntu include Flash.
[08:04] <sanxiyn> (No, I don't want to troll here.)
[08:04] <npmccallum> sanxiyn: macromedia does not allow redistribution of flash on linux, period.
[08:04] <sanxiyn> npmccallum: Will it include http://swfdec.sf.net/ or http://gplflash.sf.net/ then?
[08:05] <ficusplanet> jdub: The smooth engine was meant to be included by default, right?
[08:05] <aethyr> supposedly firefox 1.0 will download flash automatically
[08:05] <jdub> ficusplanet: yow, that's a great bug - could you please file that for us?
[08:05] <aethyr> that's what I heard anyways
[08:05] <ficusplanet> jdub: Sure thing.
[08:05] <lucas_> hi
[08:05] <npmccallum> sanxiyn: swfdec is definately in (at least) universe
[08:06] <aethyr> if firefox 1.0 fetches it automatically, that would theoretically take care of the issue for most ubuntu users...
[08:06] <sanxiyn> aethyr: Not for PPC users I guess?
[08:06] <aethyr> sanxiyn: well, they were kind of screwed anyways, no?
[08:06] <aethyr> I dunno what the situation is with macromedia + ppc
[08:07] <punkass> just curious does the current iso download have gnome 2.8 in it?
[08:07] <npmccallum> ok, I'm really going to bed now... night
[08:07] <aethyr> punkass: yup, a complete 2.8
[08:07] <sanxiyn> aethyr: Macromedia doesn't care. Period.
[08:07] <punkass> cool thanks
[08:07] <aethyr> well, except for the bug ficusplanet just found ;)
[08:07] <punkass> lol
[08:07] <punkass> a bad one?
[08:07] <aethyr> just a file missing from the Glider theme
[08:07] <aethyr> but that's not default on Ubuntu, nor GNOME 2.8
[08:08] <punkass> ah
[08:09] <highvoltage> ah?
[08:09] <rvirani> How is the PPC port
[08:09] <rvirani> err ubunti for powerpc
[08:09] <aethyr> seems good from those in here that were using it
[08:09] <mdz> works quite nicely
[08:10] <rvirani> I have a new ibook ppc and I cannot get the ATI card to work in gentoo
[08:10] <rvirani> thought I might try ubuntu
[08:10] <mdz> several canonical staff use ubuntu on powerbooks
[08:10] <punkass> and is this distro based on "testing"
[08:10] <rvirani> comes with latest gnome means I am very impressed :D
[08:10] <highvoltage> I just installed ubuntu on my laptop
[08:10] <mdz> punkass: no, unstable
[08:10] <ficusplanet> punkass: based upon unstable, I believe.
[08:10] <highvoltage> VERY nice :)
[08:10] <rvirani> mdz: what do you mean?
[08:10] <mdz> punkass: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship/document_view
[08:10] <punkass> cool thanks
[08:10] <rvirani> conocalial
[08:10] <highvoltage> can I ask a question?
[08:11] <punkass> was just there..couldnt find where it said
[08:11] <mdz> rvirani: Canonical Ltd. is the company who sponsors ubuntu development
[08:11] <ficusplanet> highvoltage: Of course.
[08:11] <highvoltage> I did a default install and it detected my centrino wireless adapter
[08:11] <mdz> punkass: hmm, it looks like it doesn't mention unstable explicitly on that page; it probably should.  I'll make a note
[08:12] <highvoltage> Isn't that a proprietary driver?
[08:12] <schweeb> wow
[08:12] <jdub> ficusplanet: dude, you are finding some nice bugs ;-)
[08:12] <schweeb> this was literally the easiest linux install I've ever done
[08:12] <jdub> ficusplanet: thanks
[08:12] <schweeb> including knoppix disks
[08:12] <highvoltage> except that it didn't ask for a root password :)
[08:12] <aethyr> yea, I couldn't believe I was installing something based on Debian ;)
[08:13] <schweeb> I already know about sudo
[08:13] <aethyr> *shudders*
[08:13] <schweeb> I don't mind debian installs
[08:13] <punkass> ah the new debian installer is gettin pretty easy
[08:13] <schweeb> I find it quite simple
[08:13] <aethyr> did you happen to install it ~3-4 years ago?
[08:13] <mdz> highvoltage: no, it's an open source driver developed by Intel
[08:13] <rvirani> mdz: ahh cool
[08:13] <schweeb> I installed it like 6 years ago, aethyr 
[08:13] <highvoltage> cool
[08:13] <schweeb> maybe 7
[08:13] <rvirani> sounds like its gonna be a good ... go
[08:14] <schweeb> the only hard part then and now is X, really
[08:14] <ficusplanet> jdub: No problem.  Just having a look around my new distro of choice.
[08:14] <aethyr> schweeb: well, the last time I installed it was around 3-4 years ago on a few different machines.  it went... not spectacularly
[08:14] <rvirani> hopefullty its not impossible to install like debian :D
[08:14] <mdz> highvoltage: ipw2200.sourceforge.net
[08:14] <rvirani> debian just sucks, I have never used it cause I just cant get it to install
[08:14] <highvoltage> mdz: ah, ok. thanks
[08:14] <rvirani> its impossible, and I have been on a linux box for 9 years
[08:14] <punkass> u guys have the nvidia drivers in there?
[08:14] <naes> hello
[08:14] <aethyr> howdy
[08:14] <highvoltage> I used the sarge installer and that worked quite well. Knoppix installs too.
[08:14] <mdz> punkass: yes
[08:14] <schweeb> punkass: they're in "restricted"
[08:14] <naes> just wondering
[08:14] <punkass> nice :)
[08:15] <rvirani> even gentoo is easier than debian...
[08:15] <naes> is there anyting paticularly special about ubuntu gnu/linux?
[08:15] <sanxiyn> rvirani: What are you talking about?
[08:15] <schweeb> rvirani: ....
[08:15] <highvoltage> In South Africa, there are 10 and 12 year olds installing Debian
[08:15] <rvirani> sanxiyn: debian being impossible to install
[08:15] <highvoltage> It can't be that hard :)
[08:15] <schweeb> there's nothing particularly hard about debian
[08:15] <rvirani> maybe I am just stupid
[08:15] <punkass> lol debian is not hard to install..not now anyways
[08:15] <schweeb> people just overanalyze the installer occasionally
[08:15] <sanxiyn> rvirani: No it isn't. I easily installed Potato, Woody, Sarge before.
[08:15] <rvirani> punkass: I havent seen the new installer
[08:16] <punkass> oh..its pretty easy now
[08:16] <schweeb> they hear how hard to install it, and they're predestined to consider it hard
[08:16] <rvirani> tlhIngan_jIH: well you obviously werent payin attention :D
[08:16] <highvoltage> I see there's a user called wartylog. How do I access the logs?
[08:16] <highvoltage> (sorry, IRC noob)
[08:16] <rvirani> schweeb: I just remember trying to read through the piles of docs
[08:16] <rvirani> none of them got to the point
[08:17] <schweeb> I installed w/o docs
[08:17] <schweeb> *shrug*
[08:17] <rvirani> schweeb: maybe that is what I should have done
[08:17] <schweeb> and for any particular package, /usr/share/doc/<name>/README.Debian is your friend
[08:17] <rvirani> actually I think I did get it to install ounce
[08:17] <tlhIngan_jIH> But both Woody and the D-I especially are but really chicken feat aren't they? ;0
[08:17] <rvirani> but all the software was old... so I nuked it in favor or something more bleeding edge
[08:17] <sanxiyn> tlhIngan_jIH: ?
[08:17] <mdz> naes: ubuntu shares the many advantages of Debian, but with regular, 6-month releases, a focus on usability, up to date GNOME, etc.
[08:17] <rvirani> ubuntu is almost done
[08:18] <punkass> yeah when i install debian..i change right to unstable packages
[08:18] <ficusplanet> I'm not having much luck with totem here either.
[08:18] <schweeb> without README.Debian you'd have to *gasp* read all the documentation
[08:18] <mdz> highvoltage: I don't think the logs have been moved to the public website yet
[08:18] <tlhIngan_jIH> yeah the release cycle of Debian kinda sucks for desktop users but well, for those on servers I suppose 2 years is a reasonable timeframe
[08:19] <sanxiyn> tlhIngan_jIH: Well, use testing then...
[08:19] <mdz> ficusplanet: unfortunately, totem can't play very many file formats without patented codecs, which we do not include on the CD
[08:19] <mdz> ficusplanet: you can install totem-xine from universe for more functionality
[08:19] <schweeb> I use testing on servers and unstable on desktops
[08:19] <punkass> schweeb: sounds about right 
[08:19] <ficusplanet> mdz: I'm having trouble with just MP3s, though, which rhythmbox is handling fine.
[08:19] <mdz> schweeb: you run servers without security updates?
[08:19] <schweeb> if you have some semblance of problem solving, you can deal with either branch
[08:19] <highvoltage> Anyone else having FireFox stability issues on warty?
[08:19] <schweeb> mdz: personal servers, definitely
[08:19] <tlhIngan_jIH> sanxiyn: I have SID/SCUD installs running on 2 boxes here...testing isn't it actually more Experimental than experimental is at times? ;)
[08:19] <highvoltage> My status bar keeps flickering
[08:19] <mdz> ficusplanet: hmm
[08:20] <aethyr> highvoltage: I haven't noticed that...
[08:20] <schweeb> mdz: work servers, just started going to Sarge
[08:20] <sanxiyn> tlhIngan_jIH: Hehe.
[08:20] <schweeb> in the last month
[08:20] <aethyr> highvoltage: any specific conditions?
[08:20] <ficusplanet> Which is, of course, strange, since they both use Gstreamer.
[08:20] <schweeb> but they were on RedHat *shudder*
[08:20] <schweeb> some were still on 7.2
[08:21] <highvoltage> I don't know. I'm using it now for the second time. I have three tabs open, first the ubuntu wiki, and then two woth mailman subscriptions
[08:21] <highvoltage> I'll restart Firefox and see what happens
[08:21] <punkass> so is gnome 2.8 all its cracked up to be?
[08:21] <highvoltage> hmm.. fine now
[08:21] <jdub> punkass: it's kickass, punkass!
[08:21] <ficusplanet> punkass: Yup.
[08:22] <punkass> nice glad to hear it...
[08:22] <aethyr> it has scalable nibbles, I mean, c'mon!
[08:22] <aethyr> you can't beat scalable nibbles
[08:22] <punkass> lol
[08:22] <highvoltage> hehe
[08:22] <neighborlee> bb time to install ;-0
[08:22] <tlhIngan_jIH> Ubuntu sure looks tempting I must say. can't wait to lay me hands on Gnome 2.8 :0
[08:23] <aethyr> yea, I'm guessing the timing on the release wasn't accidental
[08:23] <aethyr> first chance for everyone to try out GNOME 2.8 :)
[08:23] <jdub> aethyr: our release process is synced with gnome's :)
[08:23] <highvoltage> will there be any KDE sources?
[08:23] <highvoltage> Or do I get that from sarge?
[08:23] <jdub> highvoltage: KDE is available in universe
[08:23] <jdub> highvoltage: we're just fixing up some breakage in there atm
[08:23] <jblack> jdub: It is? 
[08:23] <highvoltage> Where's that? :)
[08:24] <tlhIngan_jIH> you guys must be credited for a great effort in getting 2.8 in...heard Debian will not have 2.8 in Sid until Sarge becomes Stable...hmmm
[08:24] <jdub> highvoltage: you need to uncomment universe in your sources.list
[08:24] <punkass> how does ubuntu handle apt-get upgrade?
[08:24] <highvoltage> YES! I must say, Ubuntu is WAY impressive
[08:24] <jdub> highvoltage: but give it a little while, we need to fix a couple of things
[08:24] <highvoltage> ok
[08:24] <aethyr> jdub: did you help get 2.8 into sarge?  I thought Jordi handled a lot of that...
[08:24] <sanxiyn> aethyr: You mean 2.6.
[08:24] <jdub> aethyr: 2.8 won't be in sarge
[08:24] <aethyr> er, yea, sorry
[08:24] <tlhIngan_jIH> via backports maybe? ;)
[08:25] <jdub> aethyr: but jordi was at our conference in oxford, we helped a bit with 2.8 in experimental:)
[08:25] <aethyr> ok, but 2.8 is in sid? I remember seeing something about that recently...
[08:25] <mdz> ficusplanet: totem plays both mp3 and vorbis OK for me
[08:25] <ficusplanet> jdub: Are you guys planning on shying away from Mono or including it, Muine, F-spot, Blam, etc.?
[08:26] <mdz> ficusplanet: care to file a bug report?
[08:26] <ed0n> jdub, are there any repos that should I add for getting your gnome-2.8 or is it in experimental?
[08:26] <jdub> ficusplanet: not sure, we'll see for our next release
[08:26] <ficusplanet> mdz: I get crashes when using the gstreamer backend.
[08:26] <jdub> ed0n: it's in ubuntu by default
[08:26] <tlhIngan_jIH> aethyr: no 2.7 is in Experimental...no 2.8 in Sid
[08:26] <ficusplanet> Eh, for me OSS was the default audio sink in gstreamer, is that a bug?
[08:26] <aethyr> I'm surprised none of the dbus stuff needs setting up... this was my first experience with dbus/hal, I didn't expect it to "just work"
[08:27] <sanxiyn> Mono ANd DotGNU is now in Debian unstable.
[08:27] <GheRivero> hi people
[08:27] <aethyr> hola
[08:27] <punkass> you guys are killin me...i want to play with new fun stuff :)
[08:27] <aethyr> muahaha
[08:27] <schweeb> you got GNOME 2.8
[08:27] <schweeb> what more can you ask
[08:27] <aethyr> new toys!
[08:27] <punkass> 14% done...
[08:27] <aethyr> ;)
[08:28] <punkass> lol
[08:28] <sanxiyn> aethyr: Actually "apt-get install hal" and dbus/hal is in Debian (Sid).
[08:28] <ed0n> jdub, I see but I want it in my debian :), or maybe I need ubuntu for it. And can I upgrade somehow debian to ubuntu?
[08:28] <jdub> ficusplanet: oss being the default isn't a bug
[08:28] <ficusplanet> OK
[08:28] <jdub> ficusplanet: using oss emulation is a bit more stable at the moment
[08:28] <jdub> ficusplanet: everythign at the kernel level is alsa :)
[08:28] <aethyr> sanxiyn: I'm not saying that I couldn't have installed dbus/hal (I use Gentoo).  I'm just saying that I had no reason to yet, so this is my first experience with it.
[08:29] <jdub> ed0n: upgrading may be messy :)
[08:29] <sanxiyn> aethyr: Ah, okay. :-)
[08:29] <aethyr> I was really waiting for g-v-m to get that stuff working
[08:29] <aethyr> I'm still using devfs
[08:29] <sanxiyn> hal GUI is written in Python. That's kinda cool.
[08:29] <aethyr> so I need to switch to udev/dbus/hal still
[08:30] <ed0n> jdub, okay one more thing until I switch to it. Will ubuntu have gnome always updated?
[08:30] <ed0n> I mean fast like this one
[08:31] <tlhIngan_jIH> out of curiousity does Ubuntu include both hotplug and discover? seems like many are having probs running alsa because the oss stuff gets loaded also altho a simple addition to blacklist, discover.conf can resolve the issue easily...any ideas?
[08:31] <jdub> ed0n: our stable releases wll have the latest gnome as soon as it's released
[08:31] <jdub> ed0n: our development process will have gnome development stuff as soon as it's released :)
[08:31] <thx1138> great
[08:31] <schweeb> jdub: I recommend you guys get rid of that default disclaimer motd ;) one of the biggest thing that annoys me in debian... first thing I do when I login to a new sys is rm it
[08:31] <punkass> tlhIngan_jIH: yeah i have that exact problem
[08:32] <punkass> every debian based distro, alsa has not worked till i blacklisted the oss drivers
[08:32] <tlhIngan_jIH> punkass: easy fix to it...plus a visit to www.alsa-project.org could help with any other probs ;) 
[08:33] <jdub> punkass: that's done for you ;)
[08:33] <tlhIngan_jIH> i.e. the modutils/alsa-base thingy ;)
[08:33] <aethyr> blacklisted the oss drivers? err... must be a debian thing
[08:33] <schweeb> yea
[08:34] <tlhIngan_jIH> aethyr: nope...think it is a discover thingy rather
[08:34] <punkass> jdub: sweet action...
[08:34] <aethyr> never heard of discover
[08:34] <punkass> discover is a debian thing
[08:34] <jdub> we don't use discover in the distro itself, just minimally in the installer
[08:34] <punkass> (i think)
[08:34] <aethyr> ah.
[08:34] <tlhIngan_jIH> hehe hotplug's replacement apparently ;)
[08:34] <jdub> hotplug also requires some blacklisting stuff
[08:34] <schweeb> no
[08:34] <schweeb> not replacement
[08:34] <aethyr> didn't hotplug just come out?
[08:34] <aethyr> hehe
[08:34] <schweeb> no
[08:34] <jdub> they do similar things
[08:35] <jdub> hotplug is regarded as the 'right' solution
[08:35] <schweeb> hotplug continues to take care of module loading as the system is running
[08:35] <tlhIngan_jIH> but makes no sense to have both i.e. hotplug and discover in...don't you guys agree?
[08:35] <schweeb> discover only runs on boot
[08:35] <schweeb> afaik
[08:35] <sanxiyn> tlhIngan_jIH: discover is like kudzu.
[08:35] <ed0n> jdub, can you explain to me or can you point me to a document that tells what ubuntu has more/less than debian?
[08:35] <sanxiyn> tlhIngan_jIH: discover and hotplug covers different part.
[08:35] <tlhIngan_jIH> sanxiyn: ah pardon me ignorance :|
[08:36] <schweeb> discover tries a total hardware module loading solution, hotplug tries to be one for dynamic unload/load
[08:36] <jdub> ed0n: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship/document_view
[08:36] <tlhIngan_jIH> but most issues are quickly resolved though for the initiatted that is
[08:36] <schweeb> discover is useful int he installer
[08:36] <jdub> ed0n: also see most of the docs in the ubuntu section
[08:36] <tlhIngan_jIH> schweeb: ah
[08:36] <xxorroxx> anyone know an app ..command line mp3->wav(audio cd) .. 
[08:36] <ed0n> jdub, thank you
[08:36] <jdub> schweeb: (and also, it was too mcuh work to replace in the installer ;)
[08:37] <xxorroxx> xmms++disk_writer plug-in works
[08:37] <jdub> schweeb: for this release
[08:37] <schweeb> jdub: yea, since the discover framework was already there
[08:37] <sanxiyn> Food for thought: http://www.licquia.org/archives/2004/06/07/why-discover/
[08:38] <tlhIngan_jIH> Correct me if I'm wrong but ubuntu's installer is really the D-I am I not wrong to say so?
[08:38] <schweeb> modified a bit
[08:38] <schweeb> but yes
[08:38] <tlhIngan_jIH> ah
[08:38] <tlhIngan_jIH> easy installer to work with i.e. in expert mode that is ;)
[08:39] <schweeb> meh
[08:40] <schweeb> expert mode really isn't necessary
[08:40] <schweeb> only thing I found real useful in it was that I could install direct to sid
[08:40] <ficusplanet> Well, I'm getting to sleep.  Good night everyone.  Thanks to all the devs for their fantastic work.
[08:41] <bl> afternoon folks
[08:42] <aethyr> where do those universal packages come from? is that just a sid mirror?
[08:42] <tlhIngan_jIH> schweeb: I'm not sure...been hearing of a couple of instances where perfectly working partitions not been detected when installing in"n00b" mode. Tried the D-I out in expert mode at a pal's place, no such "probs" though hmmm
[08:42] <schweeb> I've installed numerous times no prob *shrug*
[08:43] <sanxiyn> aethyr: Sid rebuild, I guess.
[08:43] <tlhIngan_jIH> hmmm...I do see a few questions on#debian every other day though
[08:43] <aethyr> hm, do they work? I got an error when I ran synaptic after I uncommented them
[08:43] <schweeb> tlhIngan_jIH: I've always been turned off by the mwilsons that hang out in there, if you know who I'm talkin bout
[08:43] <tlhIngan_jIH> schweeb: none here as well from that 1 experience but I did it via expert...so hmmm
[08:44] <tlhIngan_jIH> schweeb: hehe ;) ahh he just has his particular brand of twisted humour I think like a few others including Geurin ;)
[08:45] <punkass> is debian able to detect when i network cable is pluged/unpluged from it?
[08:45] <sanxiyn> tlhIngan_jIH: You mean Guerin.
[08:45] <sanxiyn> punkass: Yes.
[08:45] <tlhIngan_jIH> sanixyn: yeah...he has his moods too but I guess that's understandable
[08:45] <schweeb> punkass: it's not really a function of debian
[08:45] <punkass> say i boot with no network cable..then plug one in later will i get a connection
[08:45] <schweeb> punkass: it's a function of the kernel
[08:45] <schweeb> the kernel has mii support, yes
[08:45] <punkass> cuz i was trying with knoppix and it wasnt working
[08:46] <punkass> i had to boot with the cable plugged in
[08:46] <sanxiyn> punkass: Eh, that's strange.
[08:46] <schweeb> you can install ifplugd or another interface manager than acknowledges mii
[08:46] <schweeb> laptop-net, etc...
[08:46] <punkass> ah ok
[08:47] <schweeb> now to check if suspend to RAM still works... brb
[08:49] <HcE> hmmm
[08:49] <sanxiyn> .
[08:52] <aethyr> cool, I just installed totem-xine and it switches backends automatically (removes totem-gstreamer)
[08:52] <sanxiyn> aethyr: totem-xine conflicts totem-gstreamer.
[08:53] <punkass> which one is better?
[08:53] <aethyr> I know, I just thought it was neat how it switches backends
[08:53] <aethyr> punkass: well, possibly gstreamer, but I wanted to test dvd playing
[08:54] <punkass> ah.. and gsteamer doesnt support dvds?
[08:55] <aethyr> I don't think so
[08:55] <aethyr> if I wasn't able to watch my dvds that should be arriving tommorow, I'd be sad
[08:55] <schweeb> well
[08:55] <schweeb> s2r doesn't work, apparently
[08:56] <schweeb> I'll have to fiddle with it a bit
[08:56] <schweeb> :-/
[08:56] <ruiner> how do you have a cd sent to you?
[08:58] <jdub> ruiner: shipit.ubuntulinux.org
[08:58] <aethyr> brb
[08:59] <jdub> punkass: gstreamer does, but we can't ship the right bits to make dvds work due to legal reasons
[08:59] <punkass> ah can u link to them or something so users can easily install them?
[09:00] <jdub> punkass: that is also difficult issue, legally :)
[09:00] <sanxiyn> punkass: I guess "no".
[09:00] <punkass> jdub: You need some waiver "if this is not illegal in your country, click here" :)
[09:01] <sanxiyn> (It isn't illegal in my country, for example.)
[09:01] <pitti> neither in mine
[09:01] <pitti> the media industry tried to make illegal, but failed :-)
[09:02] <punkass> jdub: so there is the perfect work around ;)
[09:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> it isn't illegal in my country
[09:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> but it will be soon
[09:02] <Hrdwr_BoB> because our goverment id full of useless wankers
[09:03] <pitti> Hrdwr_BoB: is there any country where this is different?
[09:03] <punkass> lol
[09:04] <daniels> mdz: 2d yes, 3d no
[09:04] <daniels> mdz: (r300)
[09:04] <pitti> Hrdwr_BoB: OTOH, we know from the tabloids that everybody who knows how to rule a country either cuts hair or drives taxis
[09:04] <daniels> mdz: yes, 7500 is rv200, r3xx is fully supported with 2d
[09:04] <Hrdwr_BoB> heh
[09:04] <Hrdwr_BoB> well au decided that us knows best
[09:04] <Hrdwr_BoB> so now we're preparing for a VERY LARGE ass reaming
[09:04] <Hrdwr_BoB> because - DMCA, but without fair use
[09:05] <pitti> Hrdwr_BoB: fortunately we don't (yet) have this crappy DMCA in the EU yet
[09:06] <mdz> s0dak1ng: response from daniels above
[09:07] <punkass> well its sleep time...nite all
[09:07] <aethyr> well, that was fairly painless
[09:07] <pitti> punkass: night
[09:07] <aethyr> goodnight punkass
[09:07] <aethyr> (always wanted to say that)
[09:07] <aethyr> hehe
[09:08] <punkass> lol
[09:08] <aethyr> it's really weird
[09:08] <aethyr> totem from the command line will play a dvd
[09:08] <aethyr> but totem from the menu won't
[09:09] <mdz> weird
[09:09] <mdz> same totem in both cases?
[09:09] <aethyr> I do believe so
[09:10] <aethyr> the menu property says the command is "totem"
[09:10] <aethyr> I can't tell what's the problem though, because only when I run it from the terminal do I get any output
[09:10] <aethyr> but that's the working case :P
[09:10] <aethyr> hm
[09:10] <aethyr> now it works
[09:10] <aethyr> maybe it just needed to cache the key or something
[09:11] <jdub> aethyr: it takes a long while to crack the key, and the gui doesn't provide *excellent* feedback during that process
[09:12] <aethyr> makes sense
[09:12] <aethyr> ok, well now I can watch 2001 and fall asleep
[09:12] <aethyr> :)
[09:13] <aethyr> thanks for putting all effort into this distribution though, it shows
[09:13] <jdub> awesome! thanks :)
[09:14] <Parisi> I just read ubutu on the news on slashdot, sounded interesting so i am :)
[09:14] <Parisi> so here i am*
[09:14] <Parisi> Cant type this late, gee :/
[09:14] <aethyr> hehe, did it get posted to /. ?
[09:14] <Parisi> Whats the default gui on ubu?
[09:14] <aethyr> oh boy, 2 GNOME stories in 1 day
[09:14] <aethyr> (gnome)
[09:14] <Parisi> Yes, just saw it.
[09:15] <aethyr> that'll get their panties in a bunch
[09:15] <Parisi> I just started downloading via torrent.
[09:15] <Parisi> SO i shall give it a try on my laptop before i head to sleep.
[09:15] <aethyr> how's the torrent? it was pretty quick earlier
[09:15] <aethyr> I was getting ~700KB/sec
[09:16] <Parisi> Fast as hell
[09:16] <thx1138> yeah
[09:16] <Parisi> 357 kb/s stable here ;0
[09:16] <thx1138> i've just downloaded ubuntu via torrent ... very fast
[09:16] <aethyr> the only problem is once I install it, the torrents on another partition
[09:16] <aethyr> and I don't think bittorrent is installed
[09:16] <aethyr> I should seed it
[09:16] <Parisi> What sthe default desktop on ubutu? gnome?
[09:16] <aethyr> aye
[09:17] <Parisi> w00t!
[09:17] <aethyr> haha
[09:17] <nawty> gnome 2.8 as far as i recall 
[09:17] <Parisi> Thank you Thank you
[09:17] <Parisi> w00t
[09:17] <aethyr> I think that was a lot of people's reaction ;)
[09:17] <Parisi> 2.8!
[09:17] <Parisi> Thats one reason i wanted to ditch Mepis off my second partition, not really a big fan of KDE
[09:18] <Parisi> And it just seens KDE centric, like most distros these days anyways.
[09:18] <Parisi> With the exception of Fedora
[09:19] <Parisi> Excuse my poor english at the moment btw, brb.
[09:19] <Parisi> How stable is this anyways?
[09:20] <Parisi> Anyone here actually running it as a desktop OS ?
[09:20] <aethyr> I imagine the developers
[09:20] <aethyr> I've only been running it for ~2 hours
[09:20] <Parisi> haha, how do you like it.
[09:20] <aethyr> I haven't heard anyone complain about stability yet
[09:20] <Parisi> I wonder how well it will play with my picky hardware.
[09:21] <aethyr> yup, it's great.  a complete GNOME 2.8 package with udev/dbus/hal
[09:21] <jdub> Parisi: on all my desktops :)
[09:21] <aethyr> it installed all mine, buuuut my hardware is pretty vanilla
[09:21] <Parisi> Sweet
[09:22] <aethyr> now that my aureal vortex 2 has been included in alsa, all my hardware is supported
[09:22] <nawty> im not sure how much i like the udev idea :P 
[09:22] <Parisi> I wish i could only find one distro that fully takes advantage of my hardware.
[09:22] <aethyr> Parisi: what do you have that gives you problems?
[09:22] <Parisi> I could never find one.
[09:22] <ed0n> nawty, udev is good
[09:23] <nawty> ed0n: heh, and its not been moved to the favoruable device manager in 2.6.* ... im not sure how much i like that ide a:P 
[09:23] <Parisi> Well, i miss being able to use my "fn" shortcuts on my laptop, among other annoyances.
[09:23] <Parisi> Would be nice if i was able to control brightness settings, vga/lcd, etc.
[09:24] <Parisi> Its a Sony PIII 800 laptop.
[09:24] <ed0n> nawty, it works fine here always did, and makes my /dev clean
[09:25] <aethyr> Parisi: ah, a sony laptop, ouch ;)
[09:25] <aethyr> I don't even know if windows fully supports them, hehe
[09:25] <Parisi> Screen brightness is always set to high, as a result battery drains much faster.
[09:25] <ondrej> mm all
[09:25] <aethyr> (I mean, if you do a vanilla windows install)
[09:25] <nawty> ed0n: from what i understood it had some `issues` with certain hardware
[09:25] <nawty> ed0n: although that was from a article. 
[09:26] <nawty> ed0n: ill see if i can find it for you 
[09:26] <aethyr> hallo
[09:26] <ondrej> I am just replacing unstable on my gf notebook with ubuntu and I have notice you are using gnutls10, I thought that it had some security (design) flaw...
[09:26] <Parisi> aethyr ya, its actually implented as software, so it ends up being OS dependent.
[09:26] <ed0n> nawty, maybe, but it's worth a try :)
[09:26] <Parisi> Implemented*
[09:26] <nawty> ed0n: of course :) just not on a production server that cant stand the upgrade downtime for every release :) 
[09:26] <ed0n> :)
[09:28] <Parisi> linux just doesnt seem too laptop friendly, that has been my experience :(
[09:28] <Parisi> Seem all distros are focused on desktop hardware, not cool at all.
[09:28] <aethyr> well, I know a fair amount of gnome developers use laptops
[09:28] <aethyr> buuuut I think some laptops are easier than others
[09:29] <Parisi> They should have a special profile or install for laptops on the install as an option.
[09:29] <jdub> Parisi: we're working on 'totally rad' laptop support for ubuntu :)
[09:29] <Parisi> That would be nice.
[09:29] <jdub> Parisi: lots of which is in warty, some will have to wait for hoary
[09:30] <ondrej> I am missing suspend / hibernate option on my thinkpad (when using ACPI)...
[09:30] <Parisi> Thats not cool at all.
[09:30] <aethyr> someone should just buy a lot of laptops for developers ;)
[09:30] <ondrej> but that's more kernel then distro issue
[09:30] <jdub> aethyr: we did ;)
[09:30] <aethyr> hehe, force them to get it to work
[09:30] <jdub> ondrej: mmm, my new lappy needs dsdt upgrades and things - icky
[09:30] <Parisi> I miss all those features as well.
[09:30] <jdub> aethyr: we... did ;)
[09:30] <khalek> getting ati to release the information needed to get suspend working on newer apple laptops would be nice also
[09:30] <aethyr> jdub: sounds painfully fun ;)
[09:30] <jdub> aethyr: at our two week conference in oxford, we bought a few difficult laptops
[09:31] <jdub> aethyr: was lots of fun getting them working right ;)
[09:31] <Parisi> but the "fn" keys has to be one of the ones i miss the most.
[09:31] <Parisi> I do know its possible, but somebody has take a shot at implementing it on a distro
[09:31] <Parisi> The support is actually there already on the kernel.
[09:31] <nawty> the thing is, that laptop hardware ranges from one vendor to another 
[09:31] <ondrej> jdub: i had to wait for few bios updates and disable screen blanking on T40/p, but now it just works...
[09:32] <Parisi> somebody = nobody
[09:32] <jdub> Parisi: open computer > desktop preferences > keyboard shortcuts
[09:32] <nawty> although i found that ibm hardware seems to be more standard :) 
[09:32] <Parisi> How would i disable/enable my external monitor for example under linux?
[09:32] <jdub> Parisi: choose one of them that maps to one of your funny keys, like volume up/down or whatever
[09:32] <nawty> Parisi: with great difficulty :) 
[09:32] <jdub> Parisi: and hit the right button
[09:32] <Parisi> Exactly my point.
[09:32] <ondrej> jdub: I asked before, but nobody responded.  Ubuntu is using libgnutls10, but I thought it suffers from some security design flaw, at least I remember some mail on d-d@l.d.o about it
[09:33] <jdub> ondrej: not sure, mdz would know more details
[09:33] <nawty> anyway i gots some work to do :) 
[09:33] <nawty> ubuntu box to break 
[09:33] <nawty> bbiab 
[09:33] <ondrej> mdz: ping?
[09:33] <mdz> ondrej: here
[09:34] <mdz> ondrej: can you provide a reference for the issue(s) you're referring to?
[09:34] <ondrej> mdz: sure, wait a few secs...
[09:35] <jdub> morning hypatia 
[09:35] <aethyr> hm, was there an issue with g-v-m not wanting to eject anything when you press the eject button on the drive?
[09:35] <aethyr> I remember reading about it somewhere..
[09:35] <aethyr> (I can't manually eject stuff)
[09:39] <Parisi> Err..
[09:39] <Parisi> torrent is done, yay :)
[09:39] <nawty> ed0n: http://kerneltrap.org/node/view/1893
[09:40] <Parisi> Time to burn it, brb.
[09:40] <crb> Hello, and congrats to the Canonical guys
[09:41] <ondrej> mdz: http://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2004/07/msg00075.html
[09:42] <crb> Any word on things like Java/Flash etc?
[09:42] <crb> Was really impressed with the Project Utopia stuff.
[09:43] <phlaegel> here's a bug for you guys... apps in the computer menu (like synaptic) can't be added to the panel via 'add to panel'
[09:43] <mdz> ondrej: ah, it's gnutls7 which has problems security-wise I think
[09:43] <mdz> ondrej: gnutls10 has problems with threads and other normal bugs like thta
[09:43] <mdz> that
[09:45] <aethyr> anyone know why totem looks worse than xine?
[09:45] <Parisi> lol
[09:46] <aethyr> it's like it has less resolution
[09:46] <aethyr> even though I'm using the xine backend
[09:46] <Parisi> I honestly prefer mplayer over all of them.
[09:46] <aethyr> I have them next to each other and it's obvious
[09:46] <mdz> ondrej: filed as #1276
[09:46] <aethyr> I really like xine, but I don't understand why totem is showing the same screen but uglier
[09:46] <Parisi> xine is just too horrid, and not polished enough.
[09:46] <mdz> ondrej: looks like it should be easy to free ourselves of gnutls7; only one package in main depends on it
[09:47] <aethyr> ? xine is polished enough for me (i.e. it plays everthing I throw at it)
[09:47] <Parisi> well, i meant as far as the interface to interact with the user goes.
[09:47] <jdub> http://www.linuxbeta.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=103&slide=1
[09:47] <jdub> ^ ubuntu screenshots from linuxbeta
[09:47] <aethyr> hm
[09:48] <Parisi> and xine is buggy often, at least that has been my experience.
[09:48] <aethyr> when I take a screenshot, xine shows up with an empty window
[09:48] <aethyr> which means it's probably using xv whereas totem isn't
[09:48] <aethyr> so why isn't totem using xv?
[09:48] <Parisi> ah ;0
[09:48] <ondrej> mdz: also see #258975, there is some mail from upstream about libgnucrypt7 and libgnutls10...  (but since 6 month release cycle, it should be smaller problem then having it in sarge)
[09:49] <jdub> aethyr: hrm
[09:49] <jdub> aethyr: interesting
[09:49] <mdz> ondrej: added to bugzilla, thanks
[09:49] <Parisi> ah, done, time for install.
[09:49] <Parisi> Ill be back in a little while.
[09:50] <hypatia> [belatedly]  morning jdub
[09:50] <Parisi> Hopefully under Ubuntu, if everything goes ok.
[09:50] <Parisi> brb
[09:50] <ondrej> could someone with fresh install try netspeed applet?  it is crashing here, but I am not fully upgraded yet, some pieces still missing
[09:50] <lucas_> hi
[09:50] <semantic> anyone install powerpc version yet
[09:51] <lucas_> is there a simple way to know, from the installed packages, which ones belong to main, restricted or universe ?
[09:52] <semantic> i just started, everything seems to be going very well
[09:57] <ondrej> lucas_: apt-cache show _package_
[09:58] <nawty> why is aptitude better than apt-* ? 
[09:58] <jdub> lucas_: look at them in synaptic
[09:58] <lucas_> well, what about doing that for all packages ? :)
[09:58] <lucas_> ok
[09:59] <mdz> semantic: yes
[09:59] <mdz> nawty: it is a higher-level tool, it has an interactive interface, it has some additional features like removing packages which are no longer needed
[10:00] <nawty> mdz: and it actually works ? :) 
[10:00] <ondrej> lucas_: some grepping in /var/lib/apt/lists/ would do that
[10:00] <mdz> nawty: but more importantly, you can play minesweeper
[10:00] <mdz> nawty: apt-get doesn't work for you?
[10:01] <nawty> mdz: it does, im just concerned when things remove packages for me :) 
[10:01] <mdz> nawty: oh, that
[10:01] <mdz> nawty: it is actually fairly smart.  it records whether you explicitly installed a package, or whether it was installed to satisfy a dependency
[10:01] <aethyr> mdz: it's all about the scalable nibbles
[10:01] <mdz> nawty: if it was installed to satisfy a dependency, and you remove the package which had the dependency, it removes the extra packages as well
[10:01] <nawty> mdz: okay, ill take your word for it :) 
[10:02] <fabbione> lucas_: thanks for the info
[10:02] <lucas_> fabbione: no problem
[10:02] <emk> hi all.
[10:02] <fabbione> lucas_: i am checking the code now, but i don't think it's a fix i can do myself
[10:02] <fabbione> lucas_: probably upstream :(
[10:03] <fabbione> lucas_: if you check the 2 output of xvinfo in the non-sarge one you will notice that there is a "Blitter Adapter" 
[10:03] <fabbione> lucas_: that is not present in the old one
[10:03] <fabbione> that's a bunch of new code
[10:04] <fabbione> yeah
[10:04] <fabbione> everybody that have the Xv problems have the Blitter thingy 
[10:04] <fabbione> another report just come in
[10:04] <emk> I've gotta ask: whats the rationale behind disabling root in ubuntu? is there a way to get the root account back?
[10:05] <semantic> i would assume from an administrator account you could sudo passwd root
[10:05] <semantic> the root account has to be there somewhere
[10:06] <Zomb> huhu, fresh distro and the channel is already full
[10:07] <aethyr> good timing
[10:07] <aethyr> and a good release
[10:07] <Zomb> oh, no KDE
[10:07] <jomohke_> emk: "You simply have to load the "Users and Groups" application as a sudoer user, and then click to see "all users", and then select a new password for root user, and then voila, you can use the root user normally."
[10:07] <fabbione> lucas_: are you running the x.org driver now?
[10:07] <Zomb> expect Kubuntu to appear soon
[10:07] <mdz> Zomb: s/no/unsupported/
[10:07] <lucas_> no, the sarge one
[10:07] <Zomb> just as happened with GNoppix
[10:07] <mdz> Zomb: it's there
[10:07] <fabbione> lucas_: i think i have a fix :-)
[10:07] <fabbione> lucas_: mind to switch?
[10:07] <Keybuk> emk: or just 'sudo passwd' in a terminal
[10:07] <lucas_> no, just tell me
[10:08] <Zomb> mdz: I see. Very easy way to get larger distance from problems, do not add it at all.
[10:08] <fabbione> lucas_: just switch to the driver.. i need you to test an option in mplayer
[10:08] <emk> jomohke_: or i could sudo ... then useradd? right?
[10:08] <calc> Zomb: hahaha
[10:08] <calc> Zomb: i doubt it
[10:08] <semantic> what is the proper pronunciation of ubuntu
[10:08] <mdz> semantic: ooboontoo
[10:08] <calc> Zomb: would need to find enough people to actually want to do something like that
[10:08] <semantic> is it, oh ok
[10:09] <semantic> thanks mdz
[10:09] <fabbione> lucas_: mplayer -vo xv port=0 or mplayer -vo xv port=1
[10:09] <emk> mdz: theres a KDE ubunto called kubunto... where?
[10:09] <lucas_> ok, just finishing something and I'll try
[10:09] <lucas_> 2 min
[10:09] <fabbione> lucas_: one of them should work fine
[10:09] <fabbione> lucas_: sure
[10:09] <mdz> emk: not yet, I don't think. we just released our first preview less than 24 hours ago :-)
[10:10] <Zomb> calc: indeed. But since KDE is more popular in EU, somebody will step up, sooner or later.
[10:10] <jomohke_> emk: Nah, it's already there you just need to change the pass. As Keybuk said "sudo passwd" would be the alternative
[10:10] <emk> Zomb: I downloaded gnoppix and its pretty good.. never really liked the idea of a heavy KDE on a livecd... my preference would be for flux/open/black box or fvwm on a liveCD.
[10:10] <Zomb> emk: I don't think KDE is heavy. A full bloated gnome is larger, slower and still less usefull, IMHO.
[10:11] <emk> jomohke_: so whats the rationale behind it? In any machine that I've had to admin I like keeping my user account and admin as separate/distinct as possible.
[10:11] <edd> C'mon, this is just flame fodder guys! Take a look at the rest of the excellent work Ubuntu's done.
[10:11] <calc> the only complaint people have will be solved once libburn is finished
[10:11] <semantic> i like the consistency of gnome better
[10:11] <calc> semantic: me too
[10:11] <mdz> Zomb: if there are people interested in making a kubuntu, we will do what we can to make it easy for them
[10:12] <emk> Zomb: my opinion is that DE's are heavy, _any_ DE compared to a lightweight wm.
[10:12] <Zomb> emk: don't tell me ;) I use and maintain icewm.
[10:12] <munkee> I like never, ever typing my root password and doing all my maintnance through sudo
[10:13] <emk> Zomb: heh, my apologies (I wasn't preaching)... you maintain icewm?!? one o' my favorites, its screamingly fast.
[10:14] <Zomb> emk: yes. Only few libs increase it's load time much (imlib and gnome stuff used for the menu program. but you can disable gnome menues)
[10:14] <lucas_> fabbione: I have to install mplayer first (I'm on ubuntu)
[10:14] <fabbione> lucas_: ok. please use the x.org driver
[10:15] <fabbione> lucas_: it doesn't matter if you are in ubuntu or debian
[10:15] <lucas_> yes but I didn't want to reboot ;)
[10:15] <fabbione> sure.. fine for me :-)
[10:16] <lucas_> ah no mplayer in ubuntu :(
[10:16] <fabbione> just add the marillat archive.
[10:16] <fabbione> mplayer will install
[10:16] <lucas_> yup, just did that
[10:16] <jdub> emk: and everywhere else ;)
[10:17] <munkee> like debian-devel announces
[10:17] <mdz> jdub: zdnet, osnews, slashdot, lwn...anywhere else?
[10:17] <Zomb> mdz: I imagine you could Packages files for "ubuntu compliant" packages and maintain them among others in Debian's ftp tree
[10:17] <jdub> mdz: distrowatch, linuxbeta, yada yada
[10:18] <jdub> mdz: some i don't know about
[10:18] <emk> jdub: i see... grass-roots-online-press-coverage in action eh?
[10:18] <lucas_> + my news on linuxfr.org
[10:18] <mdz> Zomb: if I understand you correctly, that is what universe will become
[10:18] <jdub> ja :)
[10:18] <jdub> lucas_: yay :)
[10:18] <calc> hmm can you request specific types of cd's on the site?
[10:19] <jomohke_> I found this place from one of jdubs signatures a while ago (I think). I signed up for the announcements mailing list and forgot about it, then got that announcement recently.
[10:19] <jvw> s0dak1ng, mdz: Invision is non-free, you don't want that :)
[10:19] <mdz> jvw: what is Invision?
[10:20] <calc> bbs
[10:20] <calc> well web forum/bbs thing
[10:20] <jdub> jomohke_: heh ;)
[10:20] <jdub> jomohke_: those thingies work well ;)
[10:20] <jvw> mdz: as calc says, http://www.design2i.com/debian/ is an example
[10:21] <jomohke_> They certainly do.
[10:21] <jomohke_> Planning to do another gnome.conf.au next year, jdub?
[10:21] <jdub> jomohke_: TOTALLY
[10:21] <jdub> it's going to rock the casbah
[10:21] <jvw> mdz: it's even not distributable by non-free, too
[10:21] <jdub> we're goign to have tshirts and everything
[10:21] <jomohke_> Just like this years did.
[10:21] <mdz> oh, forum software
[10:22] <calc> phpBB is just as nice and free
[10:22] <emk> seems ubuntu combines a log from sarge _and_ sid... right?
[10:22] <thx1138> I've just installed Ubuntu : very nice work guys !
[10:22] <jdub> emk: it's based solely on sid
[10:22] <lucas_> fabbione: port={0,1} doesnt change anything
[10:22] <semantic> i don't really like any of the available LAF for phpBB, so unless you want to skin it i would look elswhere
[10:23] <fabbione> lucas_: ok just a second...
[10:23] <jdub> calc: ideally we'd like something that interfaced to our mailing lists
[10:23] <jdub> calc: so if you know anything that does nntp backend...
[10:24] <calc> oh not sure, i was just mentioning phpBB was free as opposed to invisionboard
[10:24] <mdz> calc: types of CDs, as in architecture?
[10:24] <calc> yes
[10:25] <calc> it seems you can only order by number not arch, but thats fine since most systems are i386
[10:25] <mdz> we may only be pressing i386, not sure
[10:26] <lucas_> #ubuntu is still mode +s, is it normal ?
[10:26] <calc> i ordered some, i think i will distribute them at the lug if i don't get hired tomorrow (would be moving in that case)
[10:26] <ondrej> is there some reason from gpdf being in universe?
[10:26] <Zomb> ondrej: why? is it no longer in sync with xpdf?
[10:26] <lucas_> ondrej: real men use gv or xpdf ;)
[10:27] <Zomb> lucas_: gpdf is/was xpdf with gtk gui
[10:27] <jdub> ondrej: we decided to ship xpdf for more thorough pdf support, but didn't put gpdf in supported
[10:27] <aethyr> isn't gpdf official gnome 2.8?
[10:27] <lucas_> I'm not sure they are still in synch
[10:27] <jdub> ondrej: we'll most likely ship it by default Hoary
[10:27] <jdub> the latest gpdf include xpdf 3 code
[10:27] <jdub> but uses pango rendering
[10:27] <jdub> so there are still a few interesting bugs
[10:27] <jdub> not huge
[10:28] <ondrej> jdub: gpdf is part of gnome 2.8...  so I was interested why it's not in main...
[10:28] <jdub> ondrej: yeah, that's why :)
[10:29] <lucas_> everythink in main is on the CD, right ?
[10:29] <jdub> lucas_: no, everything in the desktop and ship seeds
[10:29] <jdub> lucas_: everything in main is all of supported back down to base
[10:29] <jdub> lucas_: too big for one cd :)
[10:30] <lucas_> from looking at apt-cache {show,showpkg}, how can I determine whether a package is shipped on the CD ?
[10:32] <jdub> lucas_: you can't :)
[10:32] <fabbione> lucas_: can you try to modify your X config adding: Screen 0 right below Driver "nv"
[10:32] <fabbione> ?
[10:32] <Zomb> lucas_: apt-get --print-uris --reinstall install 
[10:33] <lucas_> Zomb: I don't have an up to date CD anymore :)
[10:33] <lucas_> fabbione, yes
[10:34] <jdub> lucas_: if you look at the desktop seed and ship seed in the wiki, that will help
[10:34] <jdub> lucas_: it'll list the main top-level packages
[10:34] <lucas_> mmh, is there a list of all packages which are on the CD somewhere ?
[10:35] <lucas_> basically, I'd like to see how suitable it is to give ubuntu to students who don't have an internet connection, and which additional packages they will need.
[10:35] <lucas_> I'll be back in ~ 10 sec
[10:36] <mdz> fabbione: can you remove the +s on the channel?
[10:36] <JADuncan> You guys have an entry on Wikipedia now, you know.
[10:36] <mdz> fabbione: that hides it from the channel list, right?
[10:36] <fabbione> mdz: no. i am not an op here
[10:36] <fabbione> mdz: yes that's correct
[10:36] <mdz> fabbione: no one is; how do we fix it?
[10:36] <fabbione> mdz: who registered the channel...
[10:37] <fabbione> mdz: i don't remember who was
[10:37] <fabbione> mdz: probably Keybuk 
[10:37] <fabbione> or jdub
[10:37] <mdz> JADuncan: the word, and the wikipedia entry, predate the distribution :-)
[10:37] <Keybuk> lamont I think
[10:37] <lucas_> fabbione, same as before
[10:37] <mdz> lamont: is sleeping, bah
[10:37] <mdz> sleep when you're dead
[10:37] <fabbione> lucas_: ok..
[10:37] <fabbione> lucas_: can you reproduce the bug with other players?
[10:37] <jdub> lucas_: yeah, so, see BaseSeed, DesktopSeed and ShipSeed for the main top-level packages included on the CD
[10:38] <JADuncan> well
[10:38] <lucas_> fabbione, can you define other players ?
[10:38] <JADuncan> it is under "Ubuntu Linux"
[10:38] <fabbione> lucas_: totem?
[10:38] <JADuncan> so I am slightly dubious of that claim ;)
[10:38] <lucas_> jdub, but that's only the main top level packages, so even apt-rdepends won't give me all of them
[10:39] <fabbione> lucas_: xine?
[10:39] <jdub> lucas_: we have a special tool that lists all of these, i'll check if we've put the results up
[10:39] <Keybuk> mdz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Linux
[10:39] <jdub> mdz: do we have germinate output on one of the public webservers?
[10:39] <parisi> wow
[10:39] <mdz> JADuncan: oh, well neat
[10:40] <mdz> JADuncan: it didn't find it when I searched for 'ubuntu'
[10:40] <Parisi> Just installed ubuntu on my Sony VAIO laptop, so far so good :)
[10:41] <[Fur] Lord-Storm> how often are the CD's shiped out?
[10:42] <Kinnison> Morning
[10:42] <Lord-Storm> night
[10:43] <lucas_> jdub, actually grepping in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/4.10/preview/warty-i386.list will do the job
[10:43] <JADuncan> mdz:  fair enough, I only just wrote it...
[10:45] <jdub> lucas_: haha, d'oh, good point :-) :-)
[10:49] <Lord-Storm> has ubuntu got the NTFS kernal bug?(like MDK 10)
[10:50] <jdub> Lord-Storm: no, we ship 2.6.8.1
[10:50] <jdub> hey alextreme 
[10:51] <alextreme> gmorning all
[10:51] <emk> durn flaky LAN connection!
[10:51] <alextreme> jdub: how's the preview-release been? gotten quite busy in here :)
[10:51] <jdub> alextreme: totally sweet
[10:51] <jdub> alextreme: lots of love :)
[10:52] <alextreme> great :)
[10:53] <fabbione> lucas_: did you reproduce the problem?
[10:53] <seb128> morning
[10:53] <emk> how did they get curses screenshots? seems the entire text-based install has been screen captured.
[10:54] <Lord-Storm> jdub: ahh good.... 
[10:54] <lucas_> totem fails because my sound card isn't configured
[10:54] <lucas_> xine works, but how an I check it uses XV ?
[10:54] <HrdwrBoB> with xine?
[10:54] <HrdwrBoB> check the output
[10:54] <HrdwrBoB> totem you can configure by configuring gstreamer
[10:55] <HrdwrBoB> gstreamer-properties
[10:55] <lucas_> I'm using the xine gui
[10:55] <lucas_> not much output
[10:55] <lucas_> there's a non-gui for xine ?
[10:56] <HrdwrBoB> start it from a terminal and it should show you some things?
[10:56] <HrdwrBoB> I think there's also some command line options
[10:56] <lucas_> not much
[10:56] <fabbione> lucas_: check the man page.. iirc there is an option to force Xv
[10:56] <lucas_> just the copyright
[10:57] <HrdwrBoB> xine --verbose=3
[10:57] <HrdwrBoB> ?
[10:57] <lucas_> xine works with -V xv
[10:58] <HcE> not much trafic on the torrent today
[10:58] <HcE> I shut down my seed
[10:58] <emk> whats the package mgt of ubuntu like... can I just use apt-get (i.e. do exactly as i would on my Sarge Debian system)?
[10:59] <fabbione> lucas_: ok.. we identified 2 bugs :-)))
[10:59] <fabbione> lucas_: the driver needs to be update to work with cards and mplayer doesn't select the proper viewport
[10:59] <fabbione> lucas_: try to use mplayer -vo xv port=53
[11:00] <HcE> or put it in your .mplayer/config ?
[11:00] <lucas_> fabbione, it still doesn't work
[11:00] <fabbione> HcE: right now we are debugging a problem :-)
[11:00] <fabbione> lucas_: check the port numbers with xvinfo :-)
[11:00] <fabbione> lucas_: one of them has to work
[11:00] <JADuncan> emk: the screenshots have been done in VMWare
[11:01] <fabbione> lucas_: given that mplayer works with that option
[11:01] <emk> JADuncan: I see... that explains it... thought it was an fb thing or something.
[11:01] <lucas_> it doesn't, actually. I just notice :
[11:02] <lucas_> Playing port=54.
[11:02] <lucas_> File not found: 'port=54'
[11:02] <lucas_> Failed to open port=54
[11:02] <ondrej> netspeed applet is crashing :-(
[11:03] <xxorroxx> right click , and select
[11:03] <xxorroxx> 'add to panel'
[11:03] <lucas_> actually the syntax is -vo xv:port=number
[11:03] <xxorroxx> hehe
[11:03] <xxorroxx> they converted it , and its way better
[11:03] <lucas_> and with port=54 it works
[11:03] <fabbione> lucas_: right. i was re-reading the man page right now
[11:04] <lucas_> it doesn't work with port=53
[11:04] <Lord-Storm> Nov will be a good month for me... new AMD64 Micro Gigabyte computer ubuntu on cd and maybe Java SDK shiped out to me...
[11:04] <fabbione> lucas_: try with 0,1 first
[11:04] <fabbione> lucas_: with 2 selection usually you have 2 viewports
[11:04] <lucas_> port=0 it doesnt
[11:04] <xxorroxx> lord-storm: you can download java sdk and ubuntu
[11:05] <lucas_> port=1: Xv: Invalid port parameter, overriding with port 0
[11:05] <lucas_> so it doesn't
[11:05] <fabbione> humpf 
[11:06] <Lord-Storm> Im on what you would call a leech network..... routers overloaded...
[11:07] <fabbione> lucas_: port base value is not the one we are looking for...
[11:07] <Lord-Storm> I had to dl mdk 6 times to get a version that wasnt corupt
[11:07] <fabbione> lucas_: i am checking something...
[11:07] <andred> It seams like I ran into the same problem as "rsevenic at netscape.net" posted about on the mailing-list, namely that Ubuntu stalls on 'bsdutils' during installation. It fails to read it from the CD.
[11:07] <andred> I have verified the md5sum on the .iso and it was correct.
[11:08] <lucas_> what about the md5sum of the CD you burnt ?
[11:08] <andred> lucas_: I haven't tried that. How do I check that?
[11:09] <lucas_> md5sum /dev/cdrom might work, depending on your CD burner's options
[11:09] <lucas_> sbody else might have a more reliable solution
[11:09] <andred> Ok, just on my cd device. I'll check.
[11:10] <lucas_> fabbione: I have to go, privmsg me if you want me to test something when I come back
[11:10] <xxorroxx> can you build kde from source ?
[11:10] <xxorroxx> or are you guys going to fix the package system
[11:11] <Mithrandir> HcE: unnskyld is seeding, iirc.
[11:12] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: whats wrong with ext3 
[11:12] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: it's slow and doesn't scale
[11:12] <fabbione> lucas_: thanks.. i can't reproduce the crap here.. even with a xvinfo that is as twice as longer as your
[11:12] <matt_> hrmm anyone here?
[11:12] <Mithrandir> lamont: around now.
[11:12] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: whats faster
[11:12] <HcE> Mithrandir: ok, then there is no point in me doing that too on Trafoen?
[11:12] <Mithrandir> correct.
[11:12] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: XFS, reiser
[11:12] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: XFS is my preferred
[11:12] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: by how much
[11:13] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: (and not just 'cause i work for SGI)
[11:13] <andred> Definately something wrong with the CD...although it's quite weird that two people can get broken CD on exactly the same package.
[11:13] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: sgi has offices in .au ?
[11:13] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: quite significantly in some situations. large files and many files in a directory esp
[11:13] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: yes - there's the Australian Software Group down here in melbourne
[11:14] <Mithrandir> HcE: actually, it's dessverre
[11:14] <HcE> Mithrandir: *fnis*
[11:14] <matt_> anyone else having problems with fonts looking bad? or is it just me
[11:14] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: what are the average % .. how much faster is XFS
[11:15] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: depends what you're doing. but, for example, an mkfs takes about 2 seconds with XFS... i shudder to think what ext3 takes on a few hundred gigs
[11:16] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: on large directories - ext3 does a linear search. XFS is O(log n)
[11:16] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: ext3 can run out of inodes. XFS allocates them dynamically
[11:16] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: nice
[11:17] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: XFS *loves* B+Trees. for free space, for directories.
[11:17] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: it's extents based, not block number based. so big files are really efficient
[11:17] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: how much of a problem is it to convert ext3->XFS
[11:17] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: use tar
[11:17] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: or some partition resizing and copying (if you can)
[11:18] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: there's a convertfs program that's meant to automate some stuff
[11:18] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: would that filesystem have any advantage as far as multimedia/games ?
[11:19] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: for multimedia, yes. XFS is used a lot in big media housess
[11:19] <janm> uhmm... is there an easy way to 'upgrade' debian to ubuntu?
[11:19] <xxorroxx> janm: doubtful
[11:19] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: a lot are using CXFS these days (clustered version - commercial product)
[11:20] <xxorroxx> MacPlusG3: I mean just for dealing with alot of mp3's , wav's , games .. etc
[11:21] <janm> xxorroxx: thanks
[11:21] <sanxiyn> janm: No.
[11:21] <sanxiyn> janm: You can try it, if you are brave.
[11:21] <jdub> janm: it is not recommended at this point :)
[11:22] <matthewjs> can someone help me set up my 802.11g card
[11:22] <MacPlusG3> matthewjs: what card?
[11:22] <Mithrandir> HcE: hm, seems like the torrents are gone now.
[11:22] <Mithrandir> MacPlusG3: you're FUD-ing
[11:22] <janm> jdub: now there's the fun :)
[11:22] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: probably be a little faster. most likely noticable
[11:22] <MacPlusG3> xxorroxx: but no gaurentees
[11:22] <matthewjs> MacPlusG3, 2200, i have it working right now, problem is when i start up my laptop it does not work i have to set it up each time
[11:22] <MacPlusG3> Mithrandir: explain?
[11:22] <Md> is the ISO tracker dead?
[11:23] <Mithrandir> MacPlusG3:                    dir_index
[11:23] <Mithrandir>                           Use  hashed  b-trees  to  speed  up lookups in large
[11:23] <Mithrandir>                           directories.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> from tune2fs
[11:23] <xxorroxx> anyone figured out how to install kde packages yet ?
[11:23] <MacPlusG3> Mithrandir: new extension - not as fast as doing it natively
[11:24] <Mithrandir> MacPlusG3: again, FUD.  It's native and it's not a "new extension".
[11:24] <MacPlusG3> Mithrandir: ext[23]  also doesn't do: extents, delayed allocation, have a repacker
[11:24] <Mithrandir> it's been there since a long time
[11:24] <Mithrandir> s/since/for/
[11:24] <sanxiyn> janm: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.5117761983
[11:26] <hypatia> matthewjs: Have a look at Computer menu -> System configuration -> Networking, if you select "Properties" of any card, you can click "Activate when computer starts"
[11:26] <janm> sanxiyn: cool. thanks.
[11:27] <alextreme> do we already have a .ogg of mark pronouncing ubuntu? :)
[11:27] <hypatia> matthewjs: alternatively, you can put "auto" next to the right card in /etc/network/interfaces, I think that's what the GUI does anyway
[11:27] <MacPlusG3> Mithrandir: yes... but is not default
[11:27] <hypatia> Is Mark a native speaker?
[11:27] <hypatia> Of Zulu I mean.
[11:27] <MacPlusG3> matthewjs: what are you having to do to set it up?
[11:28] <matthewjs> MacPlusG3, bring down eth0, bring up eth1 then run dhcp on eth1
[11:28] <xxorroxx> what the hell
[11:28] <xxorroxx> it can change resolution on-the-fly
[11:28] <xxorroxx> like windows 
[11:28] <xxorroxx> heheh
[11:28] <xxorroxx> cool
[11:29] <jdub> hypatia: no
[11:29] <MacPlusG3> matthewjs: set eth0 to not come up automatically, set eth1 to. (my guess is via the networking setup tool thingy)
[11:29] <Mithrandir> xxorroxx: modern X does that just fine, run xrandr from the command line to play with it.  Or use the GUI thingy.
[11:30] <Md> who manages the bittorrent tracker? it's dead
[11:30] <Mithrandir> the torrents are gone, it seems..
[11:32] <sanxiyn> To be honest, I feel no need to change resolution on-the-fly.
[11:34] <lonewolff> morning all
[11:34] <lypanov> daniels: nice :)
[11:35] <Mithrandir> we're working on fixing the bittorrent tracker.
[11:35] <lypanov> excellent :)
[11:35] <xxorroxx> sanxiyn: having to restart x to change the resoltion is cool 0_o .. not
[11:35] <lonewolff> does ubuntu have an rsync miror?
[11:36] <Mithrandir> lonewolff: yes, but please don't use it unless you are going to set up a full mirror yourself.
[11:37] <Mithrandir> or you can use a mirror
[11:37] <Mithrandir> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[11:37] <lonewolff> Mithrandir: that is why i want it, i wish to add it to my mirror cluster which is goin glive next week, with just about every linux distro i could find
[11:37] <Mithrandir> lonewolff: there are rsync URL on the URL I mentioned above.
[11:38] <lonewolff> Mithrandir: thankyou i shalll add that to my nightly rsync
[11:38] <Md> lonewolff: if you can wait for the tracker to be fixed, probably it will be faster anyway for the first sync
[11:38] <lypanov> yer
[11:38] <lypanov> no cdimage mirrors?
[11:39] <lonewolff> is cdimage.ubuntu.com in the uk?
[11:39] <Mithrandir> lonewolff: yes
[11:40] <lonewolff> on what network backbone?
[11:40] <lypanov> Mithrandir: prefered to start download with this or to wait for bt tracker to come up again?
[11:41] <Mithrandir> lypanov: bittorrent can continue a partial download, so if you're impatient, just download and then switch to bittorrent once that's back-
[11:41] <Mithrandir> s/-/./
[11:41] <HcE> Mithrandir: torrents are gone?
[11:42] <Mithrandir> HcE: ATM, yes.  thom is looking into it
[11:42] <HcE> don't follow you
[11:42] <matthewjs> ok using the gnome network gui thing crashed and it messed up my wnetworking even more heh
[11:42] <matthewjs> i had to restart
[11:43] <Mithrandir> HcE: the torrent tracker is down for some reason.  We're working on fixing it. :)
[11:43] <HcE> ah, ok
[11:43] <hypatia> matthewjs: yeah it seems rather crashy for me too, I think there's a bug filed
[11:43] <matthewjs> hypatia, heh.
[11:43] <matthewjs> hypatia, how else can i set it up then?
[11:43] <HcE> Mithrandir: I stoped seeding anyway, since dessverre is seeding, and we use the same uplink :)
[11:44] <matthewjs> hypatia, first time using a debian distro
[11:44] <hypatia> matthewjs: you want to make a few changes to your /etc/network/interfaces file then
[11:44] <hypatia> matthewjs: firstly, to stop eth0 coming up automatically, you want to comment out any line saying "auto eth0"
[11:45] <hypatia> matthewjs: to get eth1 to come up automatically, you want to add an "auto eth1" line
[11:45] <hypatia> To get eth1 to use dhcp, have a line like this:
[11:45] <hypatia> "iface eth1 inet dhcp"
[11:45] <hypatia> let me know if there already is an "iface eth1" line.
[11:46] <hypatia> Here's my eth1 setup (wireless as well):
[11:46] <hypatia> iface eth1 inet dhcp
[11:46] <hypatia> name Wireless LAN card
[11:46] <hypatia> wireless_essid earthsea
[11:46] <matthewjs> hypatia, there isnt, there is alot of junk in there from the gnome network gui thing
[11:46] <matthewjs> thats it?
[11:47] <matthewjs> mine has like 15 lines of stuff
[11:47] <hypatia> matthewjs: I'll paste you the entire file in /query
[11:50] <olafura> Will you have a gtk-fied and gtk 2.4 fileselector openoffice in the first release?
[11:50] <Mithrandir> olafura: I doubt it
[11:51] <thom> torrents are back up
[11:51] <olafura> I think fedora core 3 will have it
[11:54] <Mithrandir> thom: thanks.  You rock, as usual
[11:55] <rburton> just reinstalled my work desktop with the final preview ISO
[11:55] <rburton> ROCK
[11:55] <rburton> apart from apt hanging for 20 seconds before starting a download
[11:55] <thom> rburton: yay :-)
[11:55] <azeem> rburton: sudo might timeout on gethostbyname
[11:55] <Parisi> hmmhmm
[11:56] <Parisi> What would be the pass for sudo?
[11:56] <rburton> Parisi: your password
[11:56] <azeem> oh, so ubuntu runs without NOPASSWD?
[11:56] <Parisi> hmmm, i didnt even spificy one for it.
[11:57] <rburton> Parisi: when you created the first user you entered a password. this is your password and the password sudo asks for
[11:58] <Livewire> hi, whats ubuntu based on Sarge? presumably it uses APT GET? hows the hardware dtection? -ive got awkward hardware
[11:58] <lifeless> its based on sid.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> Livewire: no, it's not based on sarge, it's based on a sid snapshot.
[11:58] <Mithrandir> Livewire: it uses apt-get,yes.
[11:58] <Parisi> rburton, rburton how strange, still no luck.
[11:58] <lifeless> as for hardware, pretty decent... but there is one way to find out :)
[11:58] <Parisi> I know what my personak pass for my user account is, just wont work for sudo.
[11:58] <Livewire> thanks Mith and lifeless
[11:59] <matthewjs> hypatia, that worked thanks :0
[11:59] <Livewire> im using a SATA drive, does the default kernel have sata support?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> yes
[11:59] <thom> Livewire: default kernel is 2.6.8.1 with everything turned on, so yes
[11:59] <Parisi> I need my sleep anyways.
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Livewire: if you have hardware that doesn't work and you know how to get it working (what drivers and such), we are interested in getting that information.
[12:01] <Livewire> ive got a SATA drive, Broadcom based wireless card, Terratec sound card and various USB devices (like a camera)
[12:01] <thom> broadcom wireless is the sticky one.
[12:01] <Mithrandir> Livewire: SATA should work fine, broadcom wlan card is blatantly non-free and will only work with ndiswrapper (see http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WirelessFirmware )
[12:02] <thom> azeem: good choice. now you can have >2GB partitions ;-)
[12:02] <rburton> hm, stracing apt-get shows it spinning on gettimeofday()
[12:02] <Livewire> im about to sell that Broadcome card .. ive tried NDISwrapper in Mandrake 10 and Knoppix 3.6 NDIS GUI. I had a nightmare with a free driverloader trial in Mandrake also
[12:02] <Mithrandir> Livewire: USB should work fine, sound card is well supported, to the best of my knowledge.
[12:02] <azeem> thom: I had that before
[12:03] <Livewire> yeah its Envy24, Ubuntu should see it
[12:04] <Livewire> final question: whats the preview release, final testing and feeddback before the real public release?
[12:04] <thom> Livewire: yep
[12:04] <rburton> aha, apt is looping on a select(13,...) which is timing out
[12:04] <thom> full release is one month away
[12:04] <Livewire> thom: ok thanks
[12:05] <matthewjs> can you upgrade from preview to final, or do you have to do a full reinstall?
[12:05] <Kinnison> rburton: ls -l /proc/`pidof apt-get`/fd/13
[12:05] <Mithrandir> matthewjs: upgrades will be supported.
[12:06] <Livewire> :O its got Gnome 2.8 .. im still on 2.4 :S
[12:06] <trukulo> Mithrandir, does it have a resize partition tool on install ?
[12:06] <Mithrandir> trukulo: I don't remember.
[12:07] <trukulo> umm, i mean, parted ? nparted ?
[12:07] <rburton> Kinnison: a pipe to somewhere :)
[12:07] <trukulo> or we only have cfdisk as usual?
[12:07] <Kinnison> rburton: Hmm :-)
[12:07] <Kinnison> rburton: probably one of the method helpers?
[12:07] <Mithrandir> trukulo: nope, it doesn't use cfdisk, we're using a slightly modified debian-installer, which doesn't use cfdisk any more.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> Livewire: we released with 2.8 two hours after it was released. ;)
[12:08] <rburton> Kinnison: yea, i guess its the http method
[12:08] <Kinnison> rburton: and that is doing... ?
[12:08] <trukulo> Mithrandir, and how do you manage partitions?
[12:08] <matthewjs> Livewire, thats the only reason i installed this was for gnome 2.8 to try it out, now i like this distro and im going to keep it
[12:08] <Livewire> nice .. ive never used a hard drive installed Debian system ... so Ubuntu looks interesting
[12:08] <crb> Am I expecting to find Java/Flash etc in the 'restricted' repository?
[12:09] <Livewire> i also prefer GNOME to KDE
[12:09] <trukulo> you know, multiple SO installed
[12:09] <Mithrandir> trukulo: debian-installer uses cdebconf, so it has a custom program called partman.
[12:09] <trukulo> ah, partman
[12:09] <rburton> Kinnison: they are both hanging on a select ;)
[12:09] <Kinnison> rburton: both on a pipe?
[12:10] <rburton> Kinnison: they both say select(4, ...), but i didn't log it. can i manually call the helpers?
[12:12] <Kinnison> check /proc/<pidof the helper>/fd/4
[12:12] <Kinnison> see what that is
[12:12] <rburton> that is what was odd, it didn't exist
[12:12] <Kinnison> boggle
[12:13] <rburton> yeah
[12:13] <Kinnison> I'd try to help more; but I'm fighting to get gcc to ./configure on a solaris box
[12:14] <rburton> hm, ephy takes an age to hit the security.ubuntu.com url too
[12:14] <trukulo> Mithrandir, yes, it seems there's a resizing tool in partman
[12:16] <rburton> odd. "wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/" is taking 20 seconds after the http command was send for anything to come back
[12:18] <seb128> that's damn slow here too
[12:19] <rburton> ok, maybe its just loaded
[12:19] <rburton> once a connection is made, its fast
[12:19] <rburton> has apache hit a max clients limit?
[12:19] <Mithrandir> lypanov: it is
[12:19] <lypanov> yay :)
[12:20] <seb128> rburton: dunno, but my apt is "[Waiting for headers] "
[12:20] <seb128> for like a minute
[12:20] <Mithrandir> lypanov: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/warty-i386.iso.torrent (change i386 to something else if you're on some other arch)
[12:20] <azeem> uhm, is there a way to specify an http proxy?
[12:20] <Livewire> no i586/i686 yet, is that a future port?
[12:20] <Mithrandir> http_proxy=$proxy 
[12:20] <seb128> azeem: computer menu -> desktop preferences
[12:21] <azeem> seb128: I mean during base-config
[12:21] <Mithrandir> Livewire: that's a possibility, yes.
[12:21] <Mithrandir> Livewire: in most cases, optimizing everything for i686 doesn't gain you much
[12:21] <Livewire> ok
[12:21] <azeem> it asked me whether I want to install packages over the internet and then went ahed. I ^C'd, and then all the packages just got installed from hard disk it seems
[12:25] <azeem> hmm, disk full
[12:32] <azeem> not installing grub seems to confuse grub postinst and subsequently ubuntu-artwork
[12:33] <Livewire> what other WM does Ub come with? XFCE? Enlightenment? .. i assume those are pretty to add if they arent there 
[12:33] <Mithrandir> azeem: please file bugs
[12:33] <Kinnison> Livewire: I imagine they're all in universe
[12:33] <sanxiyn> Livewire: XFCE and Enlightenment is in Debian, so it will be in universe.
[12:34] <Livewire> sorry what is universe?
[12:34] <jordi> Livewire: like "main", but another section with the rest of Debian in it.
[12:34] <Kinnison> Livewire: universe is all the rest of the debian packages built against ubuntu IIRC
[12:34] <sanxiyn> Livewire: Ubuntu has 3 sections. main, restricted, universe.
[12:35] <Mithrandir> Livewire: note that universe is not supported, security-wise or otherwise.
[12:35] <sanxiyn> Livewire: Well, read this: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
[12:35] <Livewire> yeah i see now
[12:35] <Livewire> its just like debian, stable, unstable, testing
[12:35] <sanxiyn> Livewire: Nope.
[12:35] <jordi> nope
[12:36] <Livewire> crap i'll read the doc
[12:36] <jordi> it's just like debian "main" "contrib" "non-free"
[12:36] <Livewire> :P
[12:36] <jordi> debian stable unstable testing maps to warty hoary perky etc in Ubuntu
[12:37] <beezly> just tried a warty preview install. it's great :) well done folks
[12:37] <Mithrandir> jordi: debian woody, sarge, etch maps to warty, hoary, perky.
[12:37] <sanxiyn> I believe Enlightenment 17 will be very good... Should try it someday.
[12:38] <jordi> Mithrandir: well yeah. whatever :)
[12:38] <TongMaster> nice work Ubuntu people. I just upgraded this TiBook and *everything* just works, including DRI. Brilliant.
[12:38] <jdub> jordi: your new nick rocks
[12:38] <thom> TongMaster/beezly: cool, thanks
[12:38] <thom> sanxiyn: well, should it ever get released ;-)
[12:38] <TongMaster> thom, imagine, DRI working *OUT OF THE BOX* on a TiBook, FFS. it's a miracle :)
[12:38] <sanxiyn> thom: I think EFL is released... eh, pre-released?
[12:39] <sanxiyn> thom: I read some docs on Enlightenment Foundation Library and it made a lot of sense.
[12:39] <TongMaster> thom, released? e17? I was using two years ago, it was pretty good but I think it's been re-written twice since then.
[12:40] <thom> sanxiyn: yeah, the libraries look pretty cool, although i think with the new X stuff a lot they do becomes less interesting
[12:40] <thom> TongMaster: nod
[12:40] <TongMaster> It's a real moving target.
[12:40] <thom> TongMaster: i was excited when i was using EFM ;-)
[12:40] <TongMaster> heh, EFM was swoit.
[12:40] <TongMaster> I stopped using E17 because it was *too* much of a moving target.
[12:41] <thom> ya
[12:42] <rburton> cursed NEC gave this dvd drive a label of "_NEC blaa blaa"
[12:42] <rburton> bloody underscore 
[12:42] <thom> rburton: ooh, lovely
[12:42] <jdub> rburton: haha
[12:42] <rburton> i'll write up my install experience over lunch
[12:43] <rburton> hi robster
[12:43] <robster> hey ross
[12:43] <sanxiyn> Their canvas library, Evas, claims to run on X11, DirectFB, /dev/fb* directly, OpenGL, QTopia... Also theming part looked like Winamp skin/script done right. Well, let's see when e17 will be released. :(
[12:44] <TongMaster> although, thom, I did have a little sook about the choice 2nd+3rd buttons ;)
[12:45] <thom> TongMaster: everyone and there dog uses different ones
[12:45] <thom> we picked the ones that seemed to piss everyone off the least
[12:46] <jordi> jdub: are you serious about that?
[12:46] <jordi> :)
[12:46] <TongMaster> yeah, they are a good choice but I still had to have a token sook after such an easy install.
[12:46] <jdub> totally man
[12:46] <TongMaster> :)
[12:46] <khalek> daniels used to work for NEC blame him :)
[12:48] <Livewire> Could i boot 3 OSs from one drive? 2 linux distros, one of them Ubuntu and M$ windows ? ive only ever booted 2 at once
[12:48] <jordi> jdub: RAD!
[12:48] <jordi> so Oskuro was that bad?
[12:48] <thom> Livewire: sure
[12:48] <rburton> Livewire: you can boot as many as you want, you've just got to handle the bootloader
[12:48] <Livewire> ive just recieved a free copy of SuSE 9.1 with all the manuals, i'd be stupid not to use it
[12:48] <trukulo> jordi, well, if you play fanhunter, oskuro rocks for the villain
[12:48] <trukulo> lol
[12:48] <jordi> wtf is fanhunter?
[12:48] <Livewire> but ubuntu sounds too good not to try
[12:49] <trukulo> jordi, rpg
[12:49] <thom> Livewire: the ubuntu installer will work out what else you have on the disk available and set that up. dunno about any other distros (well, debian does the same)
[12:49] <az[a] zel> especially since it supports AMD64
[12:49] <az[a] zel> I'm yet to see a good distro for AMD64
[12:49] <jordi> trukulo: and there's a character called oskuro?
[12:50] <Mithrandir> az[a] zel: I'm _very_ interested in any amd64 specific problems you stumble over.
[12:50] <trukulo> jordi, no, there are characters called Xtremo, ridli, constantine...
[12:50] <amran> hello ppl. im runnin debian/unstable and i want to try ubuntu. can i just change my /etc/apt/sources.list and dist-upgrade my way to ubuntu?
[12:50] <az[a] zel> Mithrandir, yup
[12:51] <trukulo> jordi, where r u from?
[12:51] <Mithrandir> amran: you'll probably hit some rough edges that way, but it should work.
[12:51] <amran> its the rough edges that worry me the most
[12:51] <Mithrandir> amran: pin warty higher > 1000 and it'll downgrade anything which is newer in unstable.
[12:52] <jordi> trukulo: Valncia
[12:52] <rburton> amran: if you worry about rough edges, reinstall.  this is why i keep /home on a separate partition :)
[12:52] <amran> rburton:  or rsync'd to another partition ;)
[12:52] <daniels> khalek: not my fault, blame thombot
[12:52] <trukulo> jordi, so, it's a spanish role playing game, by cels pinyols, one of the villains is curro jimenez, it's a parody
[12:53] <trukulo> jordi, forget it, i'm OT
[12:53] <sanxiyn> (or even keep /home under Version Control!)
[12:53] <robster> heh
[12:53] <jdub> hi robster 
[12:53] <robster> jdub: heyas
[12:54] <amran> sanxiyn:  i wish i knew how to
[12:54] <joh_> I really like this thing :) grats!
[12:55] <sanxiyn> amran: cd $HOME; cvs import /var/cvs x y z (etc.)
[12:55] <amran> sanxiyn:  your crazy
[12:55] <sanxiyn> One of my friend work at Yahoo. I heard that Yahoo keeps there /etc in CVS.
[12:56] <sanxiyn> s/there/their/
[12:56] <amran> if i was gonna version control my home dir, id prob use subversion not cvs
[12:56] <sanxiyn> That works too. :-)
[12:57] <Kinnison> given how much I move stuff around; I'd probably use arch
[12:57] <Mithrandir> Kinnison: arch can't check out subtrees, though, so you would have to use configs or something
[12:57] <robster> sanxiyn: thats quite common when you have multiple admins, RCS would be more apropriate though probably
[12:57] <lifeless> I'd use arch regardless... but i'm biased
[12:57] <sanxiyn> This is an interesting read: http://www.kitenet.net/~joey/cvshome.html
[12:57] <sanxiyn> (CVS $HOME, or keeping your life in CVS.)
[12:58] <MacPlusG3> RCS/CVS with permissions with /etc can be fun
[12:58] <Kinnison> Mithrandir: I like the idea of tla build-config configs/tilde-dsilvers
[12:58] <MacPlusG3> where 'fun' means pains in the behind
[12:58] <robster> Mithrandir: that doesnt worry daniel, he has a "--" on his keyboard
[12:58] <Mithrandir> robster: tab completion.
[01:00] <rburton> seb128: how about turning on the gnome/xrdb magic in ubuntu?
[01:00] <rburton> (speaking of which, its semi-broke in testing)
[01:00] <jdub> rburton: ooh, totally
[01:00] <rburton> jdub: i want it on in sarge too but nobody else agrees
[01:00] <sanxiyn> Also this: http://svn.kitenet.net/trunk/
[01:00] <sanxiyn> Mind-boggling: he has three $HOME modules, namely home-base, home-full, home-plus. ;;;
[01:00] <jsubl2> so what is folks doing for moz plugins.  I like to watch news videos.  I usually use mplayer
[01:01] <jdub> rburton: i fully endorse this suggestion </quimby>
[01:01] <sanxiyn> jsan: mozilla-mplayer works. mozilla-bonobo + totem also works, but is unstable.
[01:01] <sanxiyn> oops
[01:01] <sanxiyn> it was to jsubl2.
[01:02] <seb128> rburton: yeah. when/where did you talk about this for sarge ?
[01:02] <jsubl2> sanxiyn, did you apt-get it.  
[01:02] <rburton> seb128: on d-g-g iirc, or maybe just the irc channel
[01:02] <sanxiyn> jsubl2: http://packages.debian.org/unstable/gnome/mozilla-bonobo
[01:03] <jsubl2> thanks
[01:03] <az[a] zel> damn I'm getting a nice rate off of bittorrent :) must be a few AMD64 users out there
[01:03] <az[a] zel> I also own an ibook, maybe I should download the ppc version...
[01:03] <sanxiyn> Eh, what really is the problem with getting mplayer in Debian?
[01:04] <thom> a fair number of high bandwidth machines have BT running on all three isos :-)
[01:04] <chronic> evenin all
[01:04] <sanxiyn> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/misc/mozilla-mplayer is already officialy in Debian. :(
[01:05] <lypanov> :D
[01:07] <az[a] zel> 17 seeds, 4 peers
[01:07] <az[a] zel> so you guys are providing these machines?
[01:07] <jsubl2> sanxiyn, ok thanks.  so it is okay to get those few little things from debian unstable
[01:07] <az[a] zel> (some of them) ?
[01:07] <sanxiyn> jsubl2: I don't know.
[01:07] <thom> az[a] zel: myself, mithrandir are certainly
[01:08] <Ass_on_Fire> Just installed ubuntu and need some help with installing the nvidia driver. Anyone know how?
[01:08] <sanxiyn> jsubl2: I *think* mplayer and mozilla-mplayer may be okay. I am not very sure about mozilla-bonobo, considering Ubuntu is GNOME 2.8.
[01:08] <az[a] zel> cool.. I only have 512/128 adsl, so my upload speed is sucks, heh
[01:08] <daniels> i'm providing a seed on 100MBit in the US
[01:08] <rburton> Ass_on_Fire: the kernel module is already installed, install nvidia-glx and then change "nv" to "nvidia" in XF86Config
[01:08] <daniels> (well, it has a 100MBit link, and it's on multiple gigabit links that never even blink)
[01:09] <sanxiyn> (btw, mozilla-bonobo can embed gpdf to view PDF file in the browser and that's cool too.)
[01:09] <Ass_on_Fire> k, thx :)
[01:10] <sanxiyn> Hm, what's the status of Java in Ubuntu?
[01:10] <rburton> sanxiyn: non distributable i'd guess
[01:10] <Mithrandir> az[a] zel: I'm on a 100Mbit university connection in .no, so well, it's fast enough.
[01:11] <sanxiyn> Two free Java applet plugins, kaffe-oji-plugin and gcjwebplugin, both sucks badly.
[01:11] <rburton> is cdimage.ubuntu.com actually alive?
[01:11] <sanxiyn> Eh, not plugin themselves, but underlying free Java implementation (particularly of AWT) I think.
[01:11] <Mithrandir> mdz: should I upload the new ooo with the .desktop fixes?
[01:11] <jdub> sanxiyn: see the FAQ on the wiki
[01:11] <sanxiyn> rburton: Yes.
[01:12] <sanxiyn> jdub: I am just complaining. Sorry.
[01:13] <jdub> sanxiyn: sounded like a perfectly valid question to me ;)
[01:14] <sanxiyn> jdub: gcjwebplugin and its dependency is all GPL-licensed free software.
[01:14] <sanxiyn> jdub: It *can* view some Java applets on the net, but it can crash badly. :(
[01:15] <emk> I've got to go
[01:17] <cef> sanxiyn: yeah but java as a whole sucks generally
[01:17] <sanxiyn> cef: Why?
[01:18] <khalek> license for one
[01:18] <cef> sanxiyn: because there are so many applets that simply won't run under JRE 1.4, because they were written either with stuff that has been removed from the standard, or they are just buggy junk that java allows you to write
[01:19] <cef> sanxiyn: I need java myself for a number of reasons, and unfortunately it almost ends up being that I need at least 4 or 5 machines with different jre installs so that I can actually use all the apps I need to use in my work day
[01:19] <sanxiyn> khalek: I am not talking about SUN's Java.
[01:20] <cef> sanxiyn: and that's irrespective of windows/linux/whatever
[01:21] <khalek> sanxiyn: well many people build things against it and many of the alternatives aither also have a sucky license or don't implement everything
[01:21] <sanxiyn> khalek: So help implementing it.
[01:21] <sanxiyn> IMO Java-as-a-technology is cool. Language is not *that* bad, class libraries are comprehensive, and 3rd party libraries built upon the base is large, also community.
[01:21] <cef> god forbid if anyone wants to use the java applets in any cisco stuff. they ONLY work with sun's JRE 1.3 (not even 1.4)
[01:22] <sanxiyn> cef: Too bad. :(
[01:22] <cef> sanxiyn: yeah.. as a network/systems admin, controlling certain cisco products is part of my job
[01:23] <cef> though cisco need to get off their rear and do something about that.. jre1.3 won't install on XP or 2003. *grin*
[01:23] <beezly> you use java to do that stuff?
[01:23] <khalek> sanxiyn: its a moving target though and I'm not overly fond of java myself
[01:24] <cef> beezly: CMS (cluster management suite) is written in java
[01:24] <beezly> eugh
[01:24] <cef> beezly: and if you're setting up their wireless switching thing, the interface is java..
[01:25] <beezly> wireless switching thing?
[01:25] <cef> yes, you CAN do it by cli, but it's no fun at all
[01:25] <cef> beezly: can't remember the name of their 'all encompassing' wireless product suite.. it's something horrendus in cost tho
[01:26] <beezly> wireless lan solutions engine?
[01:26] <beezly> the location manager in that is java
[01:26] <cef> nah the thing that sits on top of WLSE
[01:26] <cef> but yeah
[01:27] <LoneTech> Congrats on the prerelease. I just joined the i386 torrent.
[01:27] <cef> and a lot of networking vendors are switching to java for their products like that.. which in itself is worrying
[01:28] <ryo> can I ask a question regardindg alsa problems after installation in this channel?
[01:28] <Mithrandir> ryo: sure
[01:28] <cef> ryo: that's what this channel is for. ask away!
[01:28] <nawty> hallo folks...
[01:28] <beezly> heh, have to get used to not typing "su" all the time :)
[01:28] <beezly> he na
[01:28] <nawty> how do i make debian default to apache2 
[01:28] <beezly> hey nawty, even
[01:29] <ryo> well, it simply can't find any available alsa card, but alsaconf recognize it
[01:29] <ryo> modprobe.d/sound seems ok, has the right alias stuff
[01:29] <ryo> the modules all are loaded
[01:29] <LoneTech> debian doesn't default to having a webserver installed, you'd just have to make sure apache2 is the only web server installed
[01:29] <sam> hya
[01:30] <nawty> LoneTech: for example if i go aptitude install cacti 
[01:30] <nawty> LoneTech: it attempts to install apache1 not 2, how do i make it do 2 
[01:30] <LoneTech> it depends on "apache | apache-ssl | apache-perl | apache2", meaning apache is the default, just ask it to install apache2 too: aptitude install cacti apache2
[01:31] <sanxiyn> nawty: Aha, install apache2 first, and then install other softwares.
[01:31] <LoneTech> apache2 will satisfy the dependency.
[01:31] <nawty> LoneTech: thanks :) 
[01:33] <nawty> LoneTech: aptitude install cacti apache2 seems to want to install apache
[01:33] <LoneTech> odd. try just installing apache2 first?
[01:34] <nawty> oki, trying now 
[01:35] <xTina> hi
[01:35] <nawty> hi
[01:36] <LoneTech> "dl speed: 961.8 KB/s"
[01:36] <sanxiyn> 131 kB/s here.
[01:36] <vegai> does Ubuntu use the Debian repositories?
[01:36] <sanxiyn> vegai: No.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> vegai: not directly, no.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> vegai: we sync packages off them, though
[01:37] <vegai> ah. So there'll be more or less the same software in both?
[01:38] <Mithrandir> more or less, yes.
[01:38] <nawty> Mithrandir: .za mirrors ? 
[01:39] <Mithrandir> nawty: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[01:39] <Mithrandir> no .za mirrors yet, it seems
[01:39] <jedi> nice ISP az[a] zel :)
[01:39] <vegai> does Ubuntu use the same bugreporting system as Debian?
[01:39] <Qerub> vegai: See topic.
[01:40] <sanxiyn> vegai: It's Bugzilla.
[01:40] <vegai> ah 
[01:40] <vegai> ah :-(
[01:40] <egonizer> I installed gnome 2.8 from ubuntu over debian sid, the 'computer' menu i place of the 'action' menu is a great improvement, IMHO. Now I can keep the desktop without any icon :-)
[01:40] <LoneTech> will you transfer to "Malone"?
[01:40] <nawty> :( 
[01:40] <vegai> is there something the devs didn't like about the Debian's bugreporting system?
[01:40] <Kamion> god, just took me like an hour to catch up here
[01:40] <nawty> LoneTech: what happens with mod_php if i install apache2 
[01:40] <Kamion> LoneTech: eventually, yeah
[01:40] <nawty> LoneTech: will it modify the configuration and etc ? 
[01:41] <LoneTech> nawty: I think so, though it may just ask you.
[01:41] <sanxiyn> nawty: Eh, no.
[01:41] <nawty> oki, :) 
[01:41] <nawty> oh, erm...
[01:41] <ralph> hi, can anyone tell me where to find the kernel sources?
[01:41] <nawty> so which one is it ? 
[01:41] <sanxiyn> nawty: For apache2 you need something like apache-modconf enable php4 or whatever.
[01:41] <Kamion> vegai: I'm one of the *developers* of Debian's bug tracking system :-) There was some debate about it, Canonical also employs one of Bugzilla upstream and we'll be switching to our own eventually
[01:41] <sanxiyn> nawty: I think it's documented in /usr/share/doc/<apache2-php4-module>/README.Debian.
[01:42] <nawty> bah, ill stick to apache1 then for the moment 
[01:42] <vegai> Kamion: "our own" means specific to Ubuntu?
[01:42] <sanxiyn> nawty: Well, it's pretty easy actually.
[01:42] <Kamion> vegai: Malone, as above
[01:42] <Kamion> vegai: there are some things we want to do that no existing bug tracking system really handles very well
[01:42] <LoneTech> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/ubuntuprojects/document_view
[01:43] <jdub> vegai: (and would be horrifically hard to integrate into existing systems)
[01:43] <LoneTech> I am particularly interested in Rosetta.
[01:43] <vegai> okay...
[01:43] <jdub> LoneTech: :)
[01:43] <jdub> LoneTech: coming soon :)
[01:44] <LoneTech> I've been asked to assist in a swedish translation of Xandros, and found that their existing internationalization support is rather inconsistent.
[01:45] <LoneTech> going to submit some reports, but it's a bit alarming when they miss slight issues like the *existence* of keys, or "local" (as in non-US!) paper formats.
[01:45] <nawty> sanxiyn: ok, ill try apache2 then :) 
[01:46] <LoneTech> oh, the torrent is complete.
[01:47] <maswan> Hmm.. Are the torrents in need of additional seeds?
[01:48] <jdub> hey maswan!
[01:48] <LoneTech> not the i386 one: 54 seeds, 6 leechers.
[01:48] <maswan> hi there jdub 
[01:48] <Mithrandir> maswan: not really, I think..  my i386 seed is running with ~1.3Mbit up
[01:48] <rburton> hi ninja
[01:48] <maswan> Mithrandir: ACK
[01:48] <ninja> hiya rburton :)
[01:48] <Mithrandir> my ppc is ~550kbit, the amd64 is ~50kbit ATM.
[01:49] <Mithrandir> maswan: and we're more or less on the same net, I guess. :P
[01:49] <maswan> Mithrandir: Yeah
[01:50] <Kamion> LoneTech: those are actually fairly easy to fix, it's just that getting it right for every language and keyboard layout on the planet is a bit ... non-trivial
[01:50] <LoneTech> true.
[01:50] <maswan> Mithrandir: no fai/jumpstart/roboinst/nim or other automagic network install stuff yet in here?
[01:51] <LoneTech> but Debian upstream has tables for guessing connections between keyboards, languages and locales iirc, as well as paper format selection, and there's no trace of them in xandros
[01:51] <LoneTech> debian upstream made the horrible mistake of assuming everyone had Mac-specific USB keyboards for some time, though ;)
[01:53] <jdub> rburton: how did your reinstall go?
[01:53] <rburton> jdub: cool. got some notes, will mail soon
[01:53] <jdub> oh rad
[01:55] <LoneTech> now to figure out how to feed ubuntu to my laptop..
[01:56] <Kamion> LoneTech: not quite, it's more complicated than that
[01:56] <beezly> hmm, evolution is doing crazy things with its calendar for me
[01:57] <Kamion> LoneTech: the keyboard layouts are all called "mac-usb-*", and there was some conflation of hardware with keyboard layout; that's still an issue
[01:57] <beezly> events don't appear on the calendar when I add them, but do appear in the gnome clock thing
[01:57] <Kamion> LoneTech: I don't think we (er, "we" == Debian) ever actually assumed USB hardware though
[01:57] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's fun juggling hats? ;)
[01:57] <beezly> then I unload my calendar (unclick the tick box), and re-enable it again.. and the events magically re-appear
[01:57] <LoneTech> Kamion: but there's a choice now. several upgrades/installs for me actually didn't show a question but silently converted se to mac-usb-se or something.
[01:58] <khalek> the mac laptops use adb internally for one
[01:58] <Qerub> beezly: File a bug in Ubuntu's bugzilla maybe?
[01:58] <LoneTech> my personal favourite distro is still debian, anyway. I'm looking into Ubuntu more as something to recommend.
[01:59] <andred> I seriously suspect something is not right with the Ubuntu i386 ISO. I've burnt it now twice on two different computers and on read them on two different CD's and I get reading errors ...
[01:59] <LoneTech> ah, install/netboot, just what I was hoping for!
[01:59] <rburton> andred: worked fine for me
[02:00] <LoneTech> andred: read errors can't be in the ISO
[02:00] <beezly> Qerub: I don't think I can replicate it
[02:00] <Mithrandir> andred: have you checked the md5sum?
[02:00] <andred> Mithrandir, Yes, it matches.
[02:00] <beezly> just gone through the same actions again and it's not done it
[02:00] <LoneTech> CD-Rs are always an adventure
[02:00] <Mithrandir> andred: if you burn it, then read it back using dd if=/dev/cdrom | md5sum -, does the md5sum match?
[02:00] <fabbione> daniels: see also #271235
[02:00] <fabbione> ops
[02:01] <andred> The thing is, another guy reported the exact same error on the mailing list too; his read fails on the exact same Debian file.
[02:01] <Kamion> LoneTech: mac-usb-uk is absolutely correct, but mac-usb-es isn't; there's some brokenness in some of the keymaps I think
[02:01] <rburton> andred: this might be the weird DMA problem some machines have
[02:01] <andred> Mithrandir, I'm doing "md5sum" on the CD device, and after a while I get reading errors.
[02:01] <ninja> does Ubunti come with a working gthumb?
[02:01] <rburton> ninja: yes
[02:01] <beezly> andred: perhaps you have writers that get upset with certain bit-patterns on certain media?
[02:01] <vegai> does Ubuntu have kde-3.3?
[02:01] <ninja> handy
[02:01] <tseng> vegai: hah no way
[02:01] <Mithrandir> vegai: no
[02:01] <beezly> andred: either way, check the md5sum from your written media
[02:02] <andred> bdale, See what I said above.
[02:02] <vegai> tseng: hmm?
[02:02] <andred> rburton, I usually haven't had problems with DMA. Is it a problem specific to a kernel?
[02:02] <lypanov> vegai: sounds like a troll
[02:02] <vegai> lypanov: what? why?
[02:02] <Mithrandir> andred: if dd if=/dev/cdrom | md5sum - does give you read errors, you have a problem with your writer, somehow.
[02:02] <lypanov> vegai: i'd love to see kde pkgs :)
[02:02] <lypanov> vegai: i mean tseng sounds like a troll
[02:02] <vegai> oh, ah
[02:02] <tseng> haha, right.
[02:02] <beezly> andred: if you get io errors whilst reading the disk, it's not a problem with the iso image you burned
[02:03] <Qerub> vegai: "Although we're concentrating on GNOME with Ubuntu, stay tuned for some interesting KDE stuff on the way. :-)"
[02:03] <andred> Mithrandir, I have burnt it at my place and now at a friends house, so the burn is okay. The *reading* could be a problem perhaps.
[02:03] <rburton> andred: i'm not sure, but we had the problem on a machine here. worked most of the time but d-i produced read errors. turn dma off, iirc hdc=nodma is the trick in grub
[02:03] <lypanov> hey hey Qerub :)
[02:03] <Mithrandir> andred: yes, either the reading or the writing, then. :)
[02:03] <lypanov> Qerub: ur at con* also?
[02:03] <Qerub> lypanov: howdy :-)
[02:03] <daniels> cef: ping
[02:03] <lypanov> yoyo daniels :)
[02:03] <al_> hi
[02:03] <Qerub> lypanov: con*?
[02:03] <andred> rburton, Hmm, ok. A Debian ISO of Sarge works perfectly though, so that's a bit strange.
[02:03] <daniels> lypanov: hello there
[02:03] <rburton> yes, that is
[02:04] <lypanov> daniels: how's ya laptop doin'?
[02:04] <daniels> lypanov: trying our fine distribution?
[02:04] <cef> daniels: yo
[02:04] <lypanov> daniels: thinking of :)
[02:04] <daniels> lypanov: it isn't. thom's strong-armed me into buying an x40.
[02:04] <lypanov> daniels: just downloaded :)
[02:04] <andred> rburton,  And the fact that I barf on bsdutils and the guy on the mailing-list does the same.
[02:04] <lypanov> daniels: dang u stil didn't get it fixed? :/
[02:04] <lypanov> daniels: that sukxkrz
[02:04] <lypanov> daniels: still an x40 would be nice :)
[02:04] <daniels> lypanov: the x40 is love
[02:04] <lypanov> hehe
[02:04] <daniels> yeah, about 9 days away
[02:04] <lypanov> nice :>
[02:05] <lypanov> congratz on ur new relationship then :P
[02:05] <daniels> heh. it's all thom's fault. i really want a powerbook, seriously.
[02:05] <lypanov> hehe
[02:05] <lypanov> they are kinda cute admittedly
[02:06] <cef> daniels: everything is thom's fault
[02:06] <lypanov> cef: :P
[02:06] <lypanov> umm
[02:06] <lypanov> what does PermitRootLogin default to in ubuntu?
[02:06] <lypanov> is there a "securing debian" guide somewhere by any changes?
[02:06] <lypanov> s/ges/ces/
[02:06] <mjg59> If powerbooks had working power management under Linux, they might approach the excellence of the X40
[02:07] <khalek> you have to pick your model
[02:07] <khalek> some have working suspend and all
[02:07] <Mithrandir> daniels: you're getting an x40?
[02:07] <khalek> they generally aren't the latest ones
[02:07] <daniels> Mithrandir: yeah
[02:07] <Mithrandir> daniels: you evil, evil person.
[02:07] <lypanov> Mithrandir: the bt worked perfectly btw
[02:07] <Mithrandir> lypanov: goodie :)
[02:07] <daniels> Mithrandir: yeah
[02:07] <lypanov> Mithrandir: say thx to the fixer :)
[02:08] <Mithrandir> lypanov: it's thom, he's in here.
[02:08] <lypanov> thx thom :)
[02:08] <khalek> daniels: so I take it you guys are set for x40 testing then?
[02:08] <beezly> is there an alternative way to get to the "Computer" menu in GNOME?
[02:08] <daniels> khalek: always have been
[02:09] <khalek> daniels: now there are 2 people who don't have x40s?
[02:10] <Kamion> lypanov: "yes" (I'm the openssh maintainer in Debian too ...)
[02:11] <Kamion> lypanov: since Ubuntu doesn't set the root password by default, it's even less important than it is in Debian
[02:11] <lypanov> Kamion: you have sudo etc setup?
[02:11] <daniels> khalek: heh. most everyone has an x40, a couple have/had powerbooks, and one holdout has an hp.
[02:11] <Kamion> lypanov: yes
[02:12] <lypanov> gtk2 gui's for all installer progs?
[02:12] <tseng> its ncurses
[02:12] <tseng> you dont have to look at it very long
[02:12] <lypanov> is the installer itself sudo or the backend sudo?
[02:12] <lypanov> oops sorry. i meant during runtime
[02:12] <tseng> sudo doesnt have much to do with the installer at all
[02:13] <TerminX> what's the likelyhood of Ubuntu debs working on Debian?
[02:13] <lypanov> as in. after installation. is there a gtk2 proggie for looking at installed pkgs etc?
[02:13] <Kamion> lypanov: synaptic, runs inside gksudo
[02:13] <tseng> ah yep
[02:13] <Kamion> eventually we'd want to make it just use sudo for the backend obviously, IIRC we didn't have time for warty unfortunately
[02:14] <ricky_clarkson> So, is Ubuntu continually based on Debian or is it based on some snapshot taken at some point in the past?
[02:14] <Mithrandir> ricky_clarkson: snapshot
[02:14] <lypanov> looks nice
[02:14] <Mithrandir> ricky_clarkson: but the next release will be a newer snapshot, and so on.
[02:14] <lypanov> Kamion: i'm *very* happy to hear that you guys have a clue :P
[02:14] <mooch> the name is not explained in the announcement...
[02:15] <lamont> morning
[02:15] <mooch> morning, lamont
[02:15] <Mithrandir> hi mooch 
[02:15] <Kamion> lypanov: hey, we have one of the Debian security team working for us, he'd jump up and down on our skulls if we were being security-clueless ...
[02:15] <Qerub> lypanov: con*?
[02:15] <Mithrandir> mooch: '"Ubuntu" is an ancient African word, meaning "Humanity To Others"'
[02:15] <daniels> lamont: morning dude
[02:15] <lypanov> Qerub: oh sorry. company name
[02:15] <daniels> mooch: 'a person is a person through other people'
[02:15] <ricky_clarkson> Mithrandir: Sounds like a reasonable idea.  I was at a Gentoo meeting recently (hosting it, but I'm nothing to do with Gentoo) and remarked that one of Debian's faults is the slow stable process.
[02:15] <lypanov> Qerub: i went off to look for the spelling of the one word i couldn't spell :P
[02:16] <lypanov> Kamion: :>
[02:16] <Qerub> lypanov: Er. No? :) Why would I be that? :) I'm just a clueless lamer.
[02:16] <Qerub> lypanov: Canonical BTW.
[02:16] <mooch> found it in the wiki, but thanks!
[02:16] <lypanov> Kamion: tho i don't like the idea of u getting ur skull squashed :)
[02:16] <lypanov> Qerub: maybe finally i'll actually remember that :P
[02:16] <mooch> is ubuntu in need of a sysadm? :)
[02:16] <Kamion> lypanov: nor I
[02:17] <daniels> mooch: we have some very good ones right now, but thanks for the offer :)
[02:17] <Mithrandir> mooch: I doubt it. :)
[02:17] <Qerub> Is someone gonna provide some space for community driven KDE support in Ubuntu?
[02:17] <ricky_clarkson> mooch: Nobody's in need of a sysadm, they're in need of systems that Just Work(tm) :)
[02:17] <Kamion> Qerub: yes; I'm not sure we can give you a timeline yet, but that's very much the plan
[02:18] <mooch> damn... :/
[02:18] <lypanov> Kamion: good :)
[02:18] <mooch> well, gotta go to get a tattoo
[02:18] <mooch> bbl
[02:18] <al_> hi
[02:18] <lypanov> have fun mooch :P
[02:19] <nawty> LoneTech: still around ? 
[02:19] <nawty> sanxiyn: around ? 
[02:19] <Qerub> Kamion: Great. I'm right that KDE is currently excluded, even in the "unsupported" repository?
[02:19] <sanxiyn> nawty: Yep.
[02:19] <Qerub> Kamion: Am I*
[02:19] <nawty> sanxiyn: what was the place you said i should have a look around to find the apache2 configure stuff for mod_php ? 
[02:19] <nawty> sanxiyn: and how exactly should i go about installing mod_php4 with apache2 ? 
[02:19] <Gman> 'Also note that Daniel Stone, the freedesktop.org's release manager, is in the Ubuntu team. That says something.'
[02:19] <Gman> daniels, what does that say? :/
[02:20] <Gman> daniels, :P
[02:20] <sanxiyn> nawty: Eh...
[02:20] <sanxiyn> nawty: /query me
[02:20] <lypanov> Gman: that he totally kicks ass? :P
[02:20] <Qerub> Gman: I think it has to do with X.org.
[02:20] <Kamion> Qerub: the source is in universe, but I believe there was some build problem, and generally up to now we've been ignoring build problems in universe
[02:20] <Gman> ahh
[02:20] <fabbione> Gman: that he sits on his chair and i do the real work _P
[02:20] <Gman> haha
[02:20] <Kamion> Qerub: it's an issue for people, though, so somebody is looking at it ...
[02:21] <Qerub> Kamion: Sounds fair enough :)
[02:23] <sanxiyn> fabbione: Hehe.
[02:24] <jordi> yay fabbione :)
[02:24] <Leoric> hi
[02:25] <nawty> halo 
[02:25] <Leoric> what is the "way to do it" when I need a package from debian that isnt included in ubuntu?
[02:25] <Leoric> I really need gvim :)
[02:26] <Mithrandir> Leoric: universe
[02:26] <Kamion> Leoric: vim-gnome's in universe
[02:26] <Kamion> ouch, archive is *so* much slower than it used to be ...
[02:27] <maswan> Kamion: More mirrors and cut public access to the main archive? :)
[02:27] <Leoric> universe?
[02:28] <Leoric> ahh, I see
[02:28] <Leoric> sources.list :(
[02:28] <ricky_clarkson> Does ubuntu handle source packages in a different way to Debian at all?
[02:28] <Leoric> :)
[02:29] <fooishbar> i'm almost beginning to think that fooishbar.org has issues under high load
[02:29] <tseng> your server sucks, admit it
[02:29] <fooishbar> ber.
[02:29] <tseng> mine sucks more
[02:29] <fabbione> daniels: can you get in contact with upstream about the Xv problem?
[02:29] <Kamion> ricky_clarkson: how d'you mean?
[02:30] <Loduriel> I've got a Netgear MA311(a wireless pci adapter) working with the orinoco module, will it be recognised by the installer? or will i need to set it up after?
[02:30] <daniels> fabbione: I can try, but we don't have any nv guys -- only nvidia themselves :\
[02:30] <Kamion> Loduriel: that's fairly vanilla, should be recognized
[02:30] <Kamion> Loduriel: if it doesn't, send us the PCI id
[02:30] <ricky_clarkson> Kamion: Just wondering whether it can keep the Gentoo types happy too.
[02:31] <Loduriel> Kamion, thx for the info!
[02:31] <Kamion> ricky_clarkson: right now we're working pretty much the same way as Debian
[02:31] <fabbione> daniels: better than nothing
[02:31] <ricky_clarkson> Is there any plan for change that way?
[02:31] <Qerub> What about ndiswrapper? :)
[02:31] <Kamion> ricky_clarkson: there are other bits of Canonical working on alternatives, though
[02:32] <Kamion> ricky_clarkson: more news when it happens :)
[02:32] <nawty> *dances round*
[02:32] <Kamion> lypanov: Ubuntu itself will stay Debian-style, I imagine
[02:32] <Qerub> lypanov: it would take about 20 min for you too code something like that :)
[02:32] <Kamion> it's a binary distribution, deal
[02:32] <lypanov> Qerub: 5 :P
[02:32] <Qerub> lypanov: then do it
[02:32] <tseng> there isnt much reason to build you own when the packages work well
[02:33] <lypanov> Kamion: no :)
[02:33] <azeem> lypanov: ITP ubuntu-personal-buildd
[02:33] <Qerub> tseng: "optimization!"
[02:33] <tseng> Qerub: lies
[02:33] <lypanov> ezsquirt: itmp?
[02:33] <lypanov> oops
[02:33] <lypanov> azeem: itp?
[02:33] <Kamion> sooner or later there'll be better facilities for this though
[02:33] <Qerub> tseng: please notice the two "s
[02:33] <lypanov> Kamion: good :)
[02:33] <Kamion> Qerub: it's already tuned for p4 ...
[02:33] <Qerub> please, i was just kidding.
[02:33] <Kamion> lypanov: debianism, "intent to package"
[02:33] <lypanov> Kamion: i hate gentoo's compile times now that i no longer have a 3 machine cluster :)
[02:33] <ricky_clarkson> Well, Debian provides source package utilities for a reason.  For whatever purpose, people do like to tinker.
[02:34] <Kamion> ricky_clarkson: the main reason for that is that Debian developers need them
[02:34] <lypanov> Kamion: ah. thx
[02:34] <ricky_clarkson> I suppose it'd be nice to do apt-get install somepackage --no-gtk
[02:34] <Qerub> Kamion: Oh. I haven't seen that information anywhere.
[02:34] <Kamion> ricky_clarkson: the complexities of that are unbelievable :)
[02:34] <ricky_clarkson> Kamion: Not really.
[02:34] <lypanov> Kamion: yeah. its difficult. but its freakishly useful
[02:34] <Kamion> yes, really - it's fundamentally a very different style of distribution
[02:34] <lypanov> actually my main reason for loving source installs is that making ebuilds is trivial
[02:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nogtk apt-get -b source $pkg 
[02:35] <Qerub> and debian usually provies "-gtk" or "-qt" packages...
[02:35] <ricky_clarkson> That's how Gentoo works, except the --no-gtk is called a USE flag.  There's no reason that apt-get install somepackage --no-gtk couldn't build a source package, then install the resulting binary.
[02:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if pkg respected that, it _could_ work.
[02:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: right, but then you have to deal with build-dependencies
[02:35] <lypanov> Mithrandir: that would rock
[02:35] <ricky_clarkson> Qerub: -gtk and -qt is just a waste of package name space, like having the version number in the package name.
[02:35] <lypanov> poor clee :)
[02:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: true, but that just means wrapping the apt-get call.
[02:35] <Kamion> ricky_clarkson: we do have a Gentoo guy on staff, one of the things he's been looking at is related
[02:35] <lypanov> daniels: machine died?
[02:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: though, you'd get too many build-deps installed.
[02:36] <ricky_clarkson> Mithrandir: Does that command line you gave actually work?
[02:36] <ricky_clarkson> Mithrandir: You could remove them after building.
[02:36] <lypanov> how can i install a specific (old) version of a pkg? (easy in gentoo, just rename the file)
[02:36] <Qerub> ricky_clarkson: it would work if debian/rules supported it
[02:36] <lypanov> a checkinstall gui would rock
[02:36] <ricky_clarkson> Qerub: *ooh*
[02:37] <Qerub> lypanov: i'm actually doing something like that
[02:37] <lypanov> Qerub: yer i know
[02:37] <lypanov> Qerub: thats incidently y i asked u about con* thing :)
[02:37] <Qerub> i'm just a lazy fart when doing it.
[02:37] <lypanov> hehe
[02:37] <lypanov> i would love it :)
[02:37] <Qerub> the non-gui part is working though.
[02:37] <lypanov> removes my will to use gentoo completely
[02:37] <Loduriel> Qerub, any project page or something?
[02:38] <Kamion> lypanov: specific version: apt-get install <package>=<version>, provided that you have an entry in sources.list providing that
[02:38] <lypanov> as its custom pkgs and specific version installs that keep me using gentoo
[02:38] <lypanov> Kamion: whats that entry? thats the problem i had :|
[02:38] <Qerub> Loduriel: i've got about two lines written about it. it's just a very short shell script.
[02:38] <Loduriel> Qerub, ok
[02:39] <Kamion> lypanov: well, in Debian's case you go to snapshot.debian.net; we've nothing like that for Ubuntu yet, we'd much rather fix the problems that cause you to be using the old version in the first place
[02:39] <Loduriel> it's a great idea though
[02:39] <ricky_clarkson> Kamion: Yeah, but you can't have more than one version of the same package installed into the same / with dpkg.  I thought that was what he was talking about, Gentoo's slots.
[02:39] <Qerub> Loduriel: you can try http://vemod.net/slask/software/quickpackage2
[02:39] <Qerub> Loduriel: and don't laugh :)
[02:39] <lypanov> Kamion: my last example. broken bison came out. kde's dcop was fucked totally by it. needed to downgrade before i could commit
[02:39] <Loduriel> Qerub, i promiss not to
[02:40] <Qerub> Loduriel: or: feel free to laugh, but remeber that i'm fully aware of it.
[02:40] <lypanov> Qerub: why not implement the gui in some scripting lang?
[02:40] <Qerub> lypanov: i'm on my way :)
[02:41] <Qerub> lypanov: i just have to learn it first. hehe.
[02:41] <Qerub> lypanov: i've been looking at kommander and kjsembed.
[02:41] <Qerub> lypanov: i've got a .ui file ready actually
[02:42] <Kamion> lypanov: fix bison :)
[02:42] <Qerub> lypanov: feel free to help me :) this front hasn't moved in two months or something.
[02:42] <Kamion> (or fix KDE, whichever is relevant ...)
[02:42] <Qerub> lypanov, Loduriel: anyway, the simplicity is pretty obvious.
[02:43] <Loduriel> Qerub, i do agree
[02:44] <Loduriel> Qerub, perl/GTK2 or ruby/GTK2 are very good gui scripting languages, maybe you should try em
[02:45] <nawty> why is the libmysql client 3.x and the mysql-common 4.
[02:45] <nawty> ? 
[02:45] <nawty> anyone ? 
[02:47] <Qerub> Loduriel: I'll have to start with a KDE GUI (in order to survive).
[02:47] <fabbione> (womd gptp 2
[02:47] <fabbione> oh yeah
[02:50] <lypanov> Kamion: no thanks :) more important things to do :)
[02:50] <lypanov> Kamion: i fixed kde instead in the end
[02:50] <lypanov> Kamion: by removing the dep on bison :P
[02:50] <lypanov> (or yacc)
[02:51] <lypanov> Qerub: i'd suggest qtruby of course :)
[02:51] <Qerub> lypanov: Ruby feels like an uncommon dependency.
[02:52] <Kamion> lypanov: right, but that's *our* approach - fundamentally it's the right thing to do if your goal's to release a stable distribution, and within stable releases by definition such things shouldn't happen ...
[02:53] <Qerub> lypanov: What have you fixed?
[02:56] <Kamion> frozen?
[02:56] <seb128> we are frozen ?
[02:56] <lamont> Kamion: apparently... accepted mail, but no happy-happy-joy-joy
[02:57] <seb128> that's why my gnome-theme fix doesn't show up in the archive :/
[02:57] <lypanov> Qerub: i rewrote dcopidl out of boredom
[02:58] <lypanov> Kamion: agreed
[03:02] <lamont> seb128: yeah - I expect it was elmo efficiency in locking down the release for preview-release timeframe.
[03:02] <lamont> since everything between now and then must be approved...
[03:03] <seb128> yeah ...
[03:03] <seb128> fabbione: here ?
[03:03] <Kamion> lamont: I didn't think the approval was mechanically enforced
[03:03] <fabbione> yes
[03:03] <lamont> Kamion: me either, but empirical evidence suggests otherwise.
[03:04] <seb128> fabbione: could you look on #1272 please ? Seems to be a keymap problem rather than a gnome one ... but I don't know a lot about keymap stuff
[03:04] <fabbione> seb128: what can i do for you?
[03:04] <fabbione> neither do i..
[03:04] <seb128> ok
[03:04] <fabbione> but i will look
[03:04] <lamont> Kamion: and elmo was asking mdz about approvers yesterday, ISTR
[03:04] <seb128> do we have somebody with knowledge in this area ? :)
[03:05] <Kamion> keymaps might have to be fixed in the installer / console-data
[03:05] <seb128> fabbione: just have a quick look and let me know if you have some idea, thanks
[03:05] <fabbione> seb128: i am reading it now
[03:05] <seb128> ok
[03:06] <seb128> Kamion: have you seen the .be guys getting .de keymap bugs ?
[03:06] <Loduriel> bye everyone
[03:06] <Kamion> vaguely, I've been totally overwhelmed with information today
[03:06] <fabbione> seb128: i would ask him if the problem is persisten all over the applications (that would make it more a X problem)
[03:06] <fabbione> seb128: otherwise i have no clue
[03:06] <seb128> fabbione: ok, thanks
[03:06] <Kamion> seb128: if it's reproducible in a console, feel free to assign it to me
[03:07] <seb128> ok
[03:08] <srbaker> does ubuntu use debian-installer?
[03:08] <Keybuk> yes
[03:08] <Kamion> srbaker: yes, somewhat modified
[03:10] <MacPlusG3> is there a place to report bugs?
[03:10] <chroot> MacPlusG3: topic
[03:17] <koke> MacPlusG3, http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.com/ IIRC
[03:17] <srbaker> hrm.  wonder what it says for debian's release cycle when a new company can start up and issue a release faster than we can. :P
[03:17] <koke> .org
[03:17] <MacPlusG3> koke: got it
[03:17] <thom> (it's in the topic) :-)
[03:17] <koke> ouch :P
[03:17] <thom> srbaker: benefit of people working on ubuntu full time
[03:18] <thom> and having to follow the release plan ;-)
[03:18] <srbaker> thom, yeah, i know.
[03:18] <Kamion> Ubuntu's supported set of packages is a lot smaller, too, which makes a huge difference
[03:20] <srbaker> that's a good thing.  it's also a bad thing, too, tho
[03:20] <Kamion> EPARSE :)
[03:20] <srbaker> fedora has a smaller package list, but it's missing everything i need. :P
[03:20] <khalek> not to mention less archs
[03:20] <mjg59> Possibly also the benefit of having a FUCKING BIG STICK
[03:20] <tseng> big_stick++
[03:20] <mjg59> FUCKING BIG STICKs make it easier to get people to conform
[03:20] <srbaker> fedora is missing kaffe, and a bunch more
[03:20] <Keybuk> srbaker: that's what universe is for ... it's not supported, but it's their
[03:20] <lypanov> and people with a clue help :)
[03:20] <Keybuk> uh, there
[03:22] <srbaker> Keybuk, yeah.  see, i've been *very* actively supporting fedora lately for desktop user friends.
[03:22] <srbaker> but fedora lacks the packages i need, and the non-RedHat packages are of *very* low quality
[03:23] <andred> g-v-m doesn't seam to work out of the box for me. It's set to launch "gthumg --import-photos", but it doesn't seam to launch that on plugin of camera. HAL problem? "gthumb --import-photos" works on the command line.
[03:25] <mjg59> andred: What does device manager identify your camera as?
[03:25] <srbaker> so ubuntu just takes debian and puts a release schedule behind it.  that's what debian's needed all along
[03:26] <mjg59> srbaker: And ships some non-free stuff
[03:26] <srbaker> oh.
[03:26] <srbaker> what non-free stuff?
[03:26] <mjg59> Though that's limited to drivers
[03:26] <srbaker> oh.  i currently use the nvidia binary driver.
[03:26] <mjg59> There's stuff in restricted that's not DFSG free
[03:26] <thom> restricted has the nvidia drivers and some other stuff
[03:26] <srbaker> okay.
[03:26] <rburton> andred: hal needs to be told what devices are cameras.  i think it knows about the ixus by default, and the eos-300d was added today iirc
[03:26] <andred> mjg59, info.product is "IXUS 400 Camera", which seams right.
[03:26] <Kamion> srbaker: that's rather a simplification, but if you like :)
[03:27] <thom> andred: let me try mine
[03:27] <rburton> andred: check info.capabilities (iirc)
[03:27] <srbaker> what is it that canonical will do for revenue generation, though?  consulting?  support?
[03:27] <rburton> srbaker: drug running
[03:27] <mjg59> andred: That's a plain-text string that's read from the camera
[03:27] <srbaker> i'm a little concerned about canonical being around next year.  i don't have to have the same worries about larger companies like RedHat
[03:27] <srbaker> and community stuff like debian
[03:27] <Keybuk> srbaker: would it help to know we have roughly the same amount of money in the bank as RedHat?
[03:27] <srbaker> rburton, oh, well, let me know if i can be of help with that.  my cousins are apparently quite high in the drug food chain in Canada.
[03:28] <lifeless> Keybuk: more as I understand it :)
[03:28] <dieman> hey srbaker.
[03:28] <srbaker> Keybuk, uh, i don't believe that.  but it's nice to hear
[03:28] <andred> rburton, On the Device tab I have a label "Capabilities" and that says "Unknown".
[03:28] <dieman> 349 requests currently being processed, 1 idle workers
[03:28] <dieman> ftp.cs.umn.edu is *full*
[03:28] <mjg59> andred: Sounds like it's a hal issue, then
[03:28] <lamont> dieman: time to up the limit, eh? :-)
[03:29] <dieman> lamont: yeah, im not puttin more than 350 apache processes to the task here
[03:29] <lamont> hehe
[03:29] <dieman> theres only so much bandwidth to pass aroun
[03:29] <dieman> around
[03:29] <andred> mjg59, Okay. Oddly enough, on that tab I have first "Device: IXUS 400 Camera" and them further down "Device Unknown" (notice no colon on second label).
[03:29] <lamont> Kamion: the other possibility is that cron.daily is now running, um, daily.
[03:30] <lamont> Kamion: but that would be, well, wrong, you know.
[03:30] <rburton> andred: run a locale for .fdi files, you'll need to fiddle with that. then report the changes
[03:30] <mjg59> andred: Yeah, Device: is the vendor name for it and Device (no colon) is hal stuff
[03:31] <mjg59> rburton: s/locale/locate/ ?
[03:31] <lamont> dieman: about 4 more hours and I'll have an ISO... Grumble
[03:32] <Kinnison> lamont: did you not bittorrent it yesterday then?
[03:32] <andred> rburton, Ok, I'll try that.
[03:32] <lamont> Kinnison: started to, but life was sucky
[03:32] <Kinnison> lamont: I know that feeling
[03:33] <lamont> the rsync at home continued chugging along - I unthrottled it last night and burned up 3-days worth of quota, then burned up another 60MB (.6 days) this morning.
[03:33] <Keybuk> srbaker: Canonical and Ubuntu are separate as well, though Canonical employ staff to work full-time on Ubuntu there's nothing requiring Ubuntu is only worked on by Canonical employees
[03:33] <Kinnison> lamont: quota?!
[03:33] <lamont> Kinnison: 3.2GB/mo, although I can have all I want at <56kbps.
[03:33] <Kinnison> lamont: yeesh
[03:34] <mako> free: are you debian-custom free?
[03:34] <mako> (morning everyone)
[03:34] <lamont> so the mirror machine is throttled to 30kbps, and the rest of the activity tends to add about 10kbps to each 5-min sample
[03:34] <lamont> morning mako
[03:34] <StingRay> Hi guys. Can anyone help a new Ubuntu user with a small issue?
[03:34] <jdub> StingRay: that's what we're here for :)
[03:34] <andred> rburton: So you're saying I should try to adapt canon-digital-ixus-v.fdi to IXUS 400 according to what I find in Device Manager?
[03:34] <lamont> mako: you still left coast?  or somewhere that it's a decent hour of the morning?
[03:35] <StingRay> Cool! When I installed Ubuntu, I was never asked to provide a root password. How do I change it?
[03:35] <mako> lamont: i'm 8 days into being a newyorker
[03:35] <Keybuk> StingRay: the default account has sudo access, with the root password disabled
[03:35] <Keybuk> StingRay: sudo passwd, if you specifically want a root password
[03:35] <tuo2> hey all
[03:35] <lamont> Kinnison: it's a co-op, and given that I'm sharing a single 802.11 link with a bunch of others, I have to agree with that billing model.
[03:35] <StingRay> Thanks, I'll give it a try
[03:35] <Kinnison> lamont: aah
[03:35] <lamont> Keybuk: not sudo passwd root?
[03:36] <lamont> Kinnison: 18 miles from my house to the hilltop, and then another 6? to the home of the dual-T1's.
[03:36] <Keybuk> lamont: the root is implied by being root :p
[03:36] <daniels> u know what... windows really rocks
[03:36] <daniels> bill gates is the man
[03:37] <Kinnison> lamont: meep. That's worse than I used to have. At least I was only 9 miles from the leased lines
[03:37] <lamont> somewhere I thought it grabbed the original user...
[03:37] <lamont> Kinnison: Fiber terminates 3.25 miles from my house (that's under 18000 feet, fwiw...)
[03:37] <Kinnison> daniels: cheap imitation
[03:38] <ggi> Well, I'm about to install Warty on a laptop. Have there been any brown-paper-bag bugs pertaining to laptop explosion found since yesterday?
[03:38] <lamont> so I should be able to get DSL soon...
[03:38] <Keybuk> ggi: what laptop?
[03:39] <ggi> Keybuk: A Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo D 1840. Fairly generic, gets on well with Debian.
[03:39] <StingRay> Keybuk: Am I missing something here. It doesn't work with sudo passwd. I'm logged in as the user I created during installation.
[03:39] <daniels> im sorry
[03:39] <daniels> this is an imposter
[03:39] <lamont> StingRay: try 'sudo passwd root'
[03:39] <dieman> lamont: qworst?
[03:39] <Keybuk> ggi: should be fine -- we did a lot of laptop testing
[03:39] <tuo2> do we have a nice upgrade from a debian unstable build to warty? Or is it a rebuild jobbie?
[03:39] <lamont> dieman: yeppers.
[03:39] <StingRay> Lamont: I did, no luck
[03:39] <dieman> lamont: if it is, you could look up the schedule for RT deployments
[03:40] <andred> rburton, Ok, I've now changed usb.product_id according to Device Manager for IXUS 400. Do I have to name the .fdi file to something special for it to work?
[03:40] <Keybuk> StingRay: what did it do/not do?
[03:40] <lamont> they did a walkthrough of a neighborhood 4 miles from here, sold my buddy that there DSL thang...
[03:40] <dieman> lamont: i'll find it wheni get into work
[03:40] <lamont> dieman: that'd be cool
[03:40] <dieman> lamont: ive got qwest service
[03:40] <lamont> and yes, the blocker is "no remote terminal"
[03:40] <dieman> 1.5/1 is niiice
[03:40] <StingRay> It asked for a password, the root one i guess, but I don't have it.
[03:40] <ggi> Keybuk: I'll inform you if bad things happen.
[03:40] <Keybuk> StingRay: no, it's asking for *your* password :)
[03:40] <lamont> StingRay: sudo asks for _your_ password
[03:40] <dieman> lamont: i think they have a list of terminals they plan on doing in the next year or so, afair
[03:40] <HrdwrBoB> StingRay: read the screen :)
[03:41] <lamont> dieman: any clue how much work/money/whatever it is to deploy said RT?
[03:41] <StingRay> Nevermind, I got it now. How stupid of me :)
[03:41] <andred> rburton, YAy, with that change it not Just Works!:-)
[03:41] <StingRay> It's all good now!
[03:42] <lamont> andred: s/not/now/???
[03:42] <andred> Yeah:-)
[03:42] <lamont> ok.
[03:42] <lamont> scanned wierd the other way... :)
[03:42] <andred> Should I report the change as a bug, or can someone take it right now?
[03:42] <dieman> lamont: no idea
[03:43] <StingRay> Just one more quick question. Does apt-get work in ubuntu the same way it works in debian?
[03:43] <lamont> StingRay: it's the same code....
[03:43] <StingRay> That explains it. Thanks.
[03:45] <thom> andred: please report it
[03:46] <MacPlusG3> anyone else getting "Error 15: File not found" from GRUB?
[03:46] <Qerub> rburton: doesn't gvm handle camera recognition by looking for a dcim dir?
[03:46] <dieman> lamont: http://www.qwest.com/disclosures/netdisclosure459/ <-- enjoy
[03:47] <dieman> lamont: i dont see the future list there tho
[03:47] <dieman> lamont: i'll do some more digging
[03:48] <lamont> dieman: they lie.  Wellington has one.
[03:48] <dieman> lamont: did you look at the RT list?
[03:48] <dieman> or the co-based list?
[03:48] <lamont> yeah
[03:48] <lamont> oh
[03:48] <dieman> plus, sure, i bet its out of date ;)
[03:49] <lamont> Excel Document, 844k, posted 9/15/04
[03:49] <lamont> wow
[03:50] <dieman> yeah
[03:50] <dieman> your looking in the exel doc right?
[03:50] <dieman> the other problem is that your phone line probally has load coils
[03:50] <dieman> so they would need to remove those too
[03:51] <lamont> 	Colorado	08-Jul-04	FTCLCOMA	9701 N COUNTY RD 15	FTCLCOLM	740431	X 9701 N COUNTY RD 15
[03:51] <lamont> hrm...
[03:51] <dieman> tat one close?
[03:52] <lamont> 3 miles
[03:52] <cc> jdub: yak here then
[03:52] <lamont> 3.25, actually.  It's on the fire station lot.
[03:52] <dieman> heh
[03:52] <jdub> cc: dude, you should totally be looking at ubuntu now :)
[03:52] <lamont> which I happen to know is where system 3, repeater 7 lives.
[03:53] <lamont> and I'm system 3, repeater 10
[03:53] <Kamion> MacPlusG3: you should have got a warning about using XFS during installation ...
[03:53] <cc> jdub: just curious to know how the prodding of X autodetection happens on PPC. is it /proc/device-tree bits?
[03:53] <dieman> You have: 3.25 miles
[03:53] <dieman> You want: feet
[03:53] <dieman>         * 17160
[03:53] <lamont> kinda OT, though. :-)
[03:53] <cc> jdub: yeah, i definitely should install it. but i'm proabbly after sources for the video autodetection tools :)
[03:53] <jdub> cc: fabio and daniels can give you better answers
[03:53] <Kamion> cc: that's xresprobe, in the archive
[03:53] <dieman> lamont: heh, you could hook up wireless there
[03:53] <cc> jdub: thanks. 
[03:53] <fabbione> cc:i tuses a combinantion of ddcprobe and X -probeonly
[03:53] <jdub> cc: i'll convert you when i come down :)
[03:53] <fabbione> ^ it uses
[03:54] <fabbione> cc: plus a lot of black magic :-)
[03:54] <lamont> dieman: no, he's down in a hole.  And (believe it or not) there are trees in the way to the firestation
[03:54] <cc> fabbione: and it detects things sanely? our ddcprobe doesn't do OFvb stuff correctly
[03:54] <fabbione> cc: "our" ?
[03:54] <fabbione> oh i see
[03:54] <cc> fabbione: and lshw for instance, or lspci detects hardware with totally wrong vram. trying to poke #address-cells to see if thats right or not, but seemingly no
[03:55] <cc> fabbione: fedora ppc (sorry)
[03:55] <cc> Kamion: xresprobe, i'll take a look at that, thanks
[03:55] <fabbione> cc: Ovfb is disable by default
[03:55] <lamont> dieman: what's the distance limit?  18000,or was it still12000?
[03:55] <tuo2> jdub: quick question... have you done the warty display at Debsig yet?
[03:55] <fabbione> cc: we disable OFvb and VESA
[03:55] <jdub> tuo2: hrm?
[03:55] <cc> jdub: yes, that you prolly will :P but i have to err... fix this 
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: the presentation?
[03:56] <fabbione> cc: but we probe the others.. it's not always sane.. it does its best...
[03:56] <tuo2> jdub: yup
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: it was last night, for the release party :)
[03:56] <fabbione> cc: but usually in the worst case it will ask the user what to do
[03:56] <tuo2> jdub: Dammit!
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: i posted an url to the slides to -users
[03:56] <tuo2> :)
[03:56] <jdub> tuo2: but but but -> slug this month :)
[03:56] <tuo2> aaah? really? nice.
[03:56] <cc> fabbione: ah. ok. so ddcprobe and X -probeonly actually tend to make sane decisions. ddcprobe mostly gives me crack answers on the ppc hardware i have here though
[03:56] <cc> fabbione: will ping you when i get to reading the sources for the debian/ubuntu stuff. thanks!
[03:57] <tuo2> jdub: Jordan. Friend of dopey.
[03:57] <jdub> ahar
[03:57] <jdub> come along!
[03:57] <fabbione> cc: well it's a lot of shell scripting
[03:57] <tuo2> jdub: for sure. I've been looking for a new project to sink my teeth into.. so if you are taking help, I'll take a look around and see what I can give back :)
[03:57] <fabbione> cc: it has been working fine in all our tests.. too bad that the xresprobe is broken in the preview cd
[03:57] <fabbione> cc: but you can get it from the archive directly
[03:58] <jdub> tuo2: rock!
[03:58] <cc> fabbione: hacks then. heh. but i believe jdub when he says its all very sweet.
[03:58] <fabbione> cc: hehhe well we did our best
[03:58] <jdub> cc: we refer to it as 'totally rad'
[03:58] <tuo2> jdub: you got a upgrader from sarge? or do I have to blow this box away? (Thinkpad T30
[03:58] <laotse> fabbione: hey man :)
[03:58] <jdub> tuo2: easier to blow away atm
[03:58] <tuo2> ahar.
[03:58] <tuo2> bugger. 
[03:58] <fabbione> cc: with the hardware we had.. clearly unknown hardware might give different results
[03:58] <cc> you guys have a liveCD about?
[03:58] <fabbione> hey laotse !
[03:58] <lamont> tuo2: warty froze end of june, so sarge is (in some cases) newer
[03:59] <fabbione> cc: liveCd doesn't use the same probe technique
[03:59] <cc> fabbione: you guys definitely have more hardware than we have... we work against the crowd to get ppc working
[03:59] <tuo2> lamont: ah....makes sense.
[03:59] <cc> fabbione: ah, okay. so i'm gonna install it soon then
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: what
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: whats
[03:59] <fabbione> ARGH
[03:59] <laotse> haha
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: what's up man?
[03:59] <tuo2> jdub: when's slug?
[03:59] <laotse> fabbione: not much. getting ready to call into my team meeting. ugh.
[03:59] <fabbione> laotse: boring stuff :-)
[03:59] <jdub> tuo2: last friday of the month, think that's the 25th
[03:59] <laotse> fabbione: seriously
[03:59] <jdub> 24th
[04:00] <fabbione> laotse: well you can abuse your bw to download ubuntu during the meeting
[04:00] <fabbione> laotse: at least it won
[04:00] <fabbione> 't be wasted
[04:00] <laotse> fabbione: haha. will do.
[04:00] <tuo2> jdub: nice. is it still at JSB? (Was it ever?... I've fairly much only ever made it to debsig....)
[04:00] <cc> fabbione: yeah, our ddcprobe is on crack. atirage128 with 512mb of ram on an iMac (for example). my laptops give weird ones too.
[04:00] <fabbione> ok it's time i stop typing for today
[04:00] <jdub> tuo2: nah, slug is at UTS
[04:00] <fabbione> laotse: i know :-)
[04:00] <tuo2> jdub: and where is the beer?
[04:00] <tuo2> :)
[04:00] <jdub> tuo2: #slug on thsi netwrok btw
[04:00] <tuo2> hmm
[04:00] <jdub> tuo2: we have indian afterward, usually, with beer ;)
[04:01] <fabbione> cc: eheh well test it and let us know. any feedback is good
[04:01] <fabbione> i am off for a while
[04:01] <fabbione> my fingers are hurting :-)
[04:03] <lamont> poor phone rep for qwest...  pointed questions are such a mixed bag...
[04:04] <Kamion> 15:01 < steph> ubuntu rot13s to hohagh
[04:05] <andred> Where can one find into on 'restricted', 'universe' and that stuff?
[04:05] <lamont> andred: it's in the faq.
[04:06] <bug1> what are the goals of ubuntu, is it a community driven distro or a for profit (ala redhat, suse) distro ?
[04:07] <jdub> bug1: largely community driven, but sponsored (and initiated) by a for-profit company
[04:07] <bug1> jdub, fair enough
[04:07] <lamont> dieman: 1_6_000.  dammit
[04:08] <lamont> time to canvas the neighborhood and have people call to ask.
[04:08] <andred> lamont, Hmm, where? In the FAQ there is one mentioning of 'restricted' and 'universe', but that's the Sarge->Ubunte question.
[04:09] <lamont> andred: hrmpf.
[04:10] <andred> Basically I just want to know if there's a place for additional software compiled for Ubuntu. I'm specifically interested in Gossip.
[04:10] <lamont> main: what we support, restricted: binary driver blobs and the like, we can't really support them, universe: the rest.
[04:10] <HrdwrBoB> andred: just grab the debian package from universe :)
[04:11] <andred> HrdwrBoB, Ok. I thought mixing Debian packages and Ubuntu packages was considered possibly harmful..
[04:11] <bug1> does ubuntu intend to follow debian in the foreseable future, or does it want to be indenpendent ?
[04:11] <lamont> universe should be the rest of debian/main, compiled for ubuntu, and is the recommended place to grab bits.  If something you want isn't built in universe, it probably is either dep-waited or failed
[04:11] <lamont> bug1: goal is to track sid, basically
[04:11] <Kamion> bug1: well, we're independent, but we're trying to minimize unnecessary divergence
[04:12] <bug1> so the same packaging tools etc
[04:12] <lamont> HrdwrBoB/andred: if you're grabbing it from universe, then you're not grabbing the debian package.
[04:12] <Sleep_bob> ah ok
[04:12] <djempak> how much RAM would one recommend for running GNOME in Ubuntu?
[04:12] <Sleep_bob> night
[04:12] <andred> lamont, Ok, cool.
[04:12] <Keybuk> djempak: 256MB is a sensible "recommended" for GNOME
[04:13] <djempak> ah
[04:13] <lamont> the kids computer is running with 128
[04:13] <Keybuk> it runs ok in 128MB ... but don't expect to be able to run evo, openoffice and mozilla together without swapping
[04:13] <Keybuk> the desktop itself is fine though
[04:13] <srbaker> evo needs like 100M
[04:13] <djempak> 2.0 looks nice though
[04:14] <Keybuk> srbaker: most of that is shared footprint, though evo can grow somewhat once you read in all your mail folders :-(
[04:14] <lamont> 128MB was a major upgrade for the kids, so they haven't complained about the swapping yet...
[04:14] <cc> Evo with junk mail filtering requires more, i think.
[04:14] <srbaker> Keybuk, yeah, i know.
[04:14] <lypanov> koffice + konqi + kmail runs just fine in 128 iirc
[04:14] <rburton> cc: the junk filtering is just spamassassin
[04:14] <lamont> OTOH, warty is much faster than what they had before (which was 64MB...)
[04:14] <lamont> I haven't felt the need to explain apples vs oranges to them on this point.
[04:15] <srbaker> well, gnome runs fine in 128M for me.  except evo
[04:15] <srbaker> evo is a pig.
[04:15] <rburton> Keybuk: you might as well set up a bot which every 5 minutes says "that is shared footprint" in all irc channels you are in
[04:15] <cc> rburton: yes, forking off a new sa thread for each message. ran it on a machine w/128mb of ram and kept on getting POP timeouts. up'ed the machine to 640mb of ram, and its a breeze :)
[04:15] <djempak> GNOME didn't run too well with only 128MB of RAM in Fedora for me
[04:15] <rburton> cc: then use spamd
[04:15] <srbaker> djempak, i ran fedora on 128M for months.
[04:16] <srbaker> then i found an extra 256M, that helped, but it was still nice
[04:16] <rburton> djempak: i found warty faster than fedora, somehow
[04:16] <srbaker> rburton, fedora's kernel is slow on my hardware too
[04:16] <djempak> but of course they recommend 192MB so I didn't really complain
[04:16] <srbaker> i think it's because they disabled modules.
[04:16] <cc> rburton: possibly because fedora's kernel has a lot of stuff built in? should check /boot/config-* and get a diff
[04:16] <djempak> does ubuntu support SMP out of the box?
[04:17] <Keybuk> rburton: it's sad people need telling <g>
[04:18] <lamont> djempak: dunno about first boot, but apt-get install linux-image-2.6-686-smp should result in happiness if not...
[04:18] <lamont> s/686/whatever/
[04:18] <djempak> ah
[04:18] <Kamion> lamont: any clue why koffice failed on i386/powerpc?
[04:18] <rburton> Keybuk: though my evo2 does have a 23M heap atm
[04:18] <Kamion> lamont: a friend is asking me
[04:18] <ggi> How does the plug-in-a-mouse-and-have-it-just-work thing work? Is it just through /dev/input/mice?
[04:19] <Kamion> ggi: yup
[04:19] <lamont> Kamion: kdelibs FTBFS on ppc (segv, reproducable).  kdebase is FTBFS (missing build depends, awaiting archive processing)
[04:19] <lamont> between those, I'd say they explain koffice anywhere
[04:19] <Kamion> it seems to have built on amd64 somehow
[04:20] <lypanov> someone noted that kde 3.3 is fucked on ppc atm
[04:21] <Kosai> ggi: I've done so here, if you run into trouble.
[04:22] <lamont> lypanov: yeah.  ppc is not happy with kde.
[04:22] <cc> isn't ubuntu a gnome based distro? 
[04:22] <nawty> argh, anyone round here want to help me get rid of a cacti install that wont go away ? 
[04:22] <lamont> cc: yeah, but 'universe is big'
[04:23] <lamont> cc: we don't stop you from installing universe packages, we just don't do support (security fixes) for universe.
[04:23] <cc> lamont: fair enough. getting around the terminology, "universe packages" would be stuff from Debian itself?
[04:23] <ggi> Kosai: I should manage fine, I was just hoping it would be set up automagically. The touchpad, that is.
[04:24] <matlads> can I ugrade from woody to ubuntu directly?
[04:24] <lamont> cc: universe == the rest of debian/main at this point.  about 97-98% built successfully
[04:24] <lamont> kde would be a fair chunk of the 2%, btw.
[04:24] <lamont> actually, large parts of kde built just fine.  But they're not installable
[04:25] <cc> lamont: ok, thanks. terminology got a bit confusing, maybe a wiki page for it might be good (for the non-Debian among us)
[04:25] <dieman> heh
[04:25] <dieman> lamont: so the /.-ing of our mirror server convinced one of the univ networking people that we need more bw to our mirror boxes
[04:25] <cc> and whomever said, disable root, made a sane decision. i tried pushing that before, and was shot down by "SELinux will fix that"
[04:25] <Kamion> dieman: cool
[04:25] <andred> Canon Digital IXUS 400 .fdi file attached to https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1286
[04:26] <dieman> lamont: so they are thinking of pulling a few extra gigE links to a switch they provide with gigE on it
[04:26] <thom> andred: great
[04:26] <dieman> lamont: *and* pull us around the packetshaper :)
[04:26] <Leoric> Do you have any numbers on how many people that have ordered a cd?
[04:26] <thom> Leoric: it's in the thousands afaik
[04:27] <Leoric> :)
[04:27] <MacPlusG3> cc: i totally agree with you :) ubuntu gets it with that :)
[04:27] <lamont> dieman: glad to be of service. :0)
[04:27] <Leoric> a slashdotted cdburner
[04:27] <cc> MacPlusG3: hey! fancy seeing you here too :P if you need ISOs, i'm grabbing x86/ppc now
[04:27] <MacPlusG3> i've got x86
[04:27] <MacPlusG3> finally got something booting
[04:27] <Kamion> cc: disabling root was certainly a controversial decision
[04:28] <MacPlusG3> Kamion: no doubt :)
[04:28] <lamont> cc: smaller groups are easier to convince sometimes..
[04:28] <cc> Kamion: its a good decision though, imho. 
[04:28] <MacPlusG3> yeah - my counter to anyone saying that there must be root is: go explain it to my mother
[04:28] <nawty> anyone ? 
[04:29] <nawty> do you think if i threaten this ubuntu install with a reinstall to fedora or somthing equally as terrible it will be scare ? 
[04:29] <nawty> scared even 
[04:30] <Kamion> nawty: sorry, bit confused about what your problem is ...
[04:30] <lamont> Kamion: 
 argh, anyone round here want to help me get rid of a cacti install that wont go away ? 
[04:30] <lamont> damn fingers
[04:31] <Kamion> still confused though :)
[04:31] <cef> lo MacPlusG3, see you've finally made it then.. *grin*
[04:31] <Kamion> maybe error messages would help ...
[04:31] <lamont> nawty: exactly what error are you getting?
[04:31] <nawty> lets first explain what i did 
[04:31] <MacPlusG3> cef: yeah... hit some bugs during install :)
[04:31] <nawty> then ill explain what the error is 
[04:31] <nawty> i first installed cacti 
[04:31] <nawty> and then it got to the cacti configure thingum 
[04:31] <nawty> so then i tried to type in the whole bits and pieces so it wouldnt work 
[04:32] <nawty> so then i tried to remove it considering i was sure i broke the mysql install 
[04:32] <cef> cc: pffft, I knew who you were.. *grin*
[04:32] <nawty> so i ctrl-c'ed out of the cacti configure and tried to remove it 
[04:32] <cc> cef: haha. so those boxes would be mighty handy now :P
[04:32] <nawty> now it wont let me remove cacti fully :( 
[04:32] <lamont> and what does it say?
[04:32] <lamont> when you try, that is.
[04:32] <nawty> Ack!  Something bad happened while installing packages.  Trying to recover:
[04:32] <cef> cc: heh.. soon soon
[04:33] <nawty> there's of course more
[04:33] <nawty> but thats the most impressive looking line :) 
[04:33] <cef> cc: I can probably do so on the weekend sometime..
[04:33] <lamont> nawty: the official answer to that is 'dpkg --configure cacti' and answer the questions...
[04:33] <nawty> aaaaah
[04:33] <lamont> but you probably want something different...
[04:33] <nawty> ok no wiat 
[04:33] <nawty> waaait 
[04:33] <nawty> stop the buss 
[04:33] <nawty> configure cacti 
[04:33] <nawty> seem's to say : 
[04:34] <nawty> dpkg: error processing cacti (--configure):
[04:34] <nawty>  package cacti is already installed and configured
[04:34] <nawty> wooonderfully 
[04:34] <Kamion> dpkg --configure -a
[04:34] <Kinnison> dpkg --configure -a
[04:34] <Kamion> heh
[04:34] <Kinnison> bah; Kamion beat me to it
[04:34] <nawty> heh
[04:34] <nawty> now dont rush all at once :) 
[04:34] <cef> snap!
[04:34] <Kamion> if that works then you should be in a sane state
[04:34] <Kamion> then try removing again
[04:34] <nawty> nope still wont remove 

[04:35] <nawty> dpkg: error processing cacti (--remove):
[04:35] <nawty>  subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 10
[04:35] <nawty> I: Skipping configuration
[04:35] <nawty> Errors were encountered while processing:
[04:35] <nawty>  cacti

[04:35] <Kinnison> Mmmm pre-remove errors
[04:36] <lamont> nawty: how comfortable are you hacking around on packages?
[04:36] <nawty> i'm slowly reminding myself why i dont like debian :) 
[04:36] <elmo_dc> kamion: is a failure at the "Install grub boot-loader on the hard disk" stage a known bug and/or likely to be fixed by preview?  I'm using today-2 daily, on a DL380
[04:37] <nawty> lamont: i would prefer to just remove the package :) but if you would like me to fiddle around i would be more than happy to 
[04:37] <lamont> nawty: step 1 is vi /var/lib/dpkg/info/cacti.postrm and add -x to the #!/bin/sh, to see where the exit 10 comes from.
[04:37] <lamont> step to is [handwaving]  make the script succeed.
[04:37] <lamont> s/to/2/
[04:38] <tuo2> lamont: heh.
[04:38] <lamont> tuo2: handwaving is all I can do on step 2.
[04:38] <nawty> ok, so now one would ownder 
[04:38] <nawty> if it doesnt actually give any errors :P 
[04:38] <nawty> what is the reason :P 
[04:38] <lamont> right.
[04:38] <nawty> ownder == wonder 
[04:38] <tuo2> lamont: I know. but it's still a bit funny.
[04:38] <lamont> package removal scripts are some of the sadder scripts in debian.
[04:39] <nawty> added the -x 
[04:39] <nawty> now i get : 
[04:39] <tuo2> step 1: steal millions of socks.
[04:39] <nawty> fawkes:/var# sh "lib/dpkg/info/cacti.postrm"
[04:39] <nawty> I: Skipping configuration
[04:39] <nawty> and that would be it 
[04:39] <tuo2> step 2: .....
[04:39] <nawty> wonderfull aint it :P 
[04:39] <tuo2> step 3: profit!
[04:39] <lamont> nawty: did you edit the file?
[04:39] <nawty> yes 
[04:39] <nawty> #!/bin/sh -x
[04:40] <lamont> elmo_dc: you have mail wrt archive uploads...
[04:40] <dieman> elmo_dc: hey.
[04:40] <dieman> elmo_dc: just sent you a email on the network situation here.
[04:40] <dieman> elmo_dc: we woke up a giant and he wants to give us more bandwidth.
[04:41] <Kamion> elmo_dc: uh, depends ... any interesting filesystems or anything? anything interesting on tty3/tty4?
[04:41] <ggi> That's my synaptics touchpad working fine. I bet that could be done automatically though. *bitch, bitch*
[04:41] <matlads> can I ugrade from woody to ubuntu directly?
[04:41] <rburton> ggi: file a bug?
[04:41] <rburton> matlads: you can, but there are rough edges.
[04:41] <Kamion> I thought we did make synaptics work automatically? we certainly meant to, but maybe something slipped
[04:41] <rburton> i.e. hotplugging won't work unless you add yourself to groups
[04:42] <matlads> rburton, has anyone tried it, or written a report on that?
[04:42] <ggi> rburton: I think I shall. Fun!
[04:43] <elmo_dc> kamion: default install, so ext3, I'll check
[04:43] <elmo_dc> dieman: oh?
[04:43] <elmo_dc> lamont: is it urgent?
[04:43] <Kamion> rburton: oh, you mean all of this is just plugdev?
[04:43] <Kamion> we so need a FAQ on that, if there isn't one already :)
[04:44] <lamont> elmo_dc: urgent question is 'is cron.daily not running, then?"
[04:44] <rburton> Kamion: the plugdev group and all admin tools expecting sudo to work are the first two major issues i can see
[04:44] <lamont> nawty: uh, givien that you're trying to nuke it, and never really finished the install, and looking at the prerm...
[04:44] <lamont> if it was my machine, I'd add line 2 of the script,saying 'exit 0'
[04:44] <ggi> Kamion: Well, it sort of worked automatically, but like a PS/2 mouse, instead of a touchpad. Tap-to-click didn't work, and neither did finger-scrolling. Oh, and it moved too fast to control properly.
[04:45] <rburton> ggi: aha, i have the way-to-fast problem with a ps2 mouse
[04:45] <nawty> lamont: erm... i seem to have fixe dit with 
[04:45] <nawty> lamont: apt-get -f install :) 
[04:45] <nawty> no wait, premature happyness
[04:45] <nawty> still the same 
[04:45] <lamont> nawty: it's just trying to muck about with things that debconf is going to remove momentarily anyway...
[04:46] <lamont> so I'd add the exit 0, and then dpkg --purge cacti
[04:47] <nawty> for the record, i dont see anywhere that exits with a status 10 
[04:47] <lamont> it's one of the db_* things, and those all run in a subshell
[04:47] <ggi> rburton: I don't think that's the same problem. I get the same thing on Debian if I just configure the touchpad as a generic PS/2 mouse.
[04:47] <matlads> lamont: have you tried apt-get --reinstall ?
[04:48] <nawty> lamont: erm..., can you see anywhere in there that might have that issue ? 
[04:48] <lamont> it'd be in the debconf manual what 10 means, but it's certainly a bug in the cacti prerm script
[04:49] <lamont> matlads: that'll just get him back to the configure screen, where he was earlier, and doesn't want to go...
[04:50] <nawty> lamont: i've reinstalled and now im abnout to try remove :) 
[04:51] <dieman> elmo_dc: yeah, we might be getting some extra gige connections for the mirrors
[04:51] <dieman> elmo_dc: and pull them around the packetshaper
[04:51] <elmo_dc> lamont: err, yes, it was sorry.. must have done that post-release... undone
[04:51] <elmo_dc> dieman: cool
[04:52] <lamont> elmo_dc: thanks muchly.  we
[04:52] <lamont> 'll smack offenders with jdub.
[04:52] <nawty> lamont: attempting to reconfigure now :) 
[04:52] <lamont> elmo_dc: that'll get kde into universe better for some people...
[04:53] <jdub> lamont: who are we going to smack?
[04:53] <lamont> jdub: anyone who uploads packages during the preview->release timeframe without blessings from god.
[04:53] <jdub> i want in on this smacking adventure
[04:54] <tuo2> heh
[04:54] <lamont> jdub: it's an administrative problem, not a technical one...
[04:54] <jdub> lamont: where god is mdz, and me his archangel?
[04:54] <lamont> yep.
[04:54] <Dr_WIllis> Sucess at installing on an Emachine 6811 laptop
[04:54] <Kamion> jdub: you are the Metatron
[04:54] <lamont> archanges have to do the smackdown-work.
[04:54] <jdub> oh dude
[04:54] <jdub> that is the coolest
[04:54] <jdub> Kamion: that makes me so happy :-)
[04:54] <tuo2> Kamion: Metratron == Voice of God, yeah?
[04:55] <tuo2> and != Transformer?
[04:55] <jdub> heh, yeah
[04:55] <Kamion> lamont: 10 is badparams
[04:55] <Keybuk> see, how I have imagery of jdub pretending to be Alan Rickman ...
[04:55] <jdub> although if i can summon breakdancing transformers, that would also be cool
[04:55] <lamont> Kamion: don't look at the script, you'll puke.
[04:55] <jdub> i totally want to be alan rickman
[04:55] <Kamion> no, Metatron is from the Third Book of Enoch via Dogma
[04:55] <tuo2> lamont: if my strict catholic upbringing serves me correctly.....
[04:56] <Kamion> (Enoch 3 rocks)
[04:56] <Kamion> (but is EXTREMELY hard to find)
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: GAR
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: /dev/cciss/c0d0p1 does not have any corresponding drive
[04:56] <jdub> Kamion: it also means i get to hang out with alanis.
[04:56] <Kamion> elmo_dc: is that grub?
[04:56] <lamont> Kamion: _7_ levels of if deep, he does an rm.  Many of those if's are checking the return from db_get.
[04:56] <jdub> and feign tortured mental anguish and stuff.
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: isn't that like an unbelivably old "grub doesn't handle compaq smartarray" bug that's been in debian since d-i supported grub?
[04:56] <elmo_dc> kamion: yeah, think so, it's on F3
[04:57] <tuo2> Kamion:Metatron is an Archangel and a Seraphim who sits beside God.... no?
[04:57] <Kamion> elmo_dc: crap, possible
[04:57] <Kamion> elmo_dc: you could run in expert mode and use lilo instead
[04:57] <nawty> anyone know if the cacti deb actually includes the cron stuff ? 
[04:57] <nawty> never mind, it does :) 
[04:57] <lamont> tuo2: I'll believe you
[04:58] <Kamion> tuo2: the story goes that Enoch got taken directly into heaven without dying (per Genesis), and became some kind of lieutenant of God called the Metatron
[04:58] <elmo_dc> kamion: I can edit /boot/grub/device.map too, that'll probably fix it if my changes are preserved
[04:58] <tuo2> Kamion: good good.
[04:58] <tuo2> sounds about right.
[04:58] <Kamion> anyway, stonkingly off-topic
[04:58] <tuo2> Kamion: that is also true.
[04:58] <Kamion> elmo_dc: if you can find the Debian bug about it ...
[04:59] <tuo2> night all.
[04:59] <Kamion> elmo_dc: oh, #258022?
[05:00] <jdub> Kamion: stonkingly.
[05:01] <elmo_dc> kamion: yeah
[05:01] <elmo_dc> (there were definitely earlier ones too tho)
[05:01] <Kamion> elmo_dc: any idea whether it's coming from grub-install or update-grub?
[05:02] <Kamion> elmo_dc: never mind, I guess both have to be changed
[05:02] <elmo_dc> kamion: grub-install .. oh
[05:03] <FrustratedPPCIns> Has anyone been able to get ubuntu to install on a G4 powermac?
[05:03] <FrustratedPPCIns> I've burned the ISO, but it won't boot even when I start with C held down :-(
[05:03] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: plenty of G4 powerbooks, not sure about powermacs
[05:04] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: I'd make sure it burned correctly as a first instance ... try looking at the contents of the CD in some other OS
[05:04] <Kamion> should have dists/, pool/, etc. at the top-level
[05:04] <FrustratedPPCIns> Thanks Kamion - it looks fine on my Fedora machine, but even in Mac OS X the disc isn't mountable - suggests a dodgy ISO or perhaps one that the Mac can'tread?>
[05:04] <Kamion> (I'm typing this on a G4 powerbook, BTW ...)
[05:05] <FrustratedPPCIns> So I'm trying to burn it on an older, slower CD burner as I've seen a few threads about that.
[05:05] <Kamion> that's interesting, I might suggest burning at a lower speed
[05:05] <Kamion> yeah
[05:05] <Kamion> I don't think there'd be anything particularly specific to the ISO about this, or at least if there were it would happen to everyone ...
[05:06] <FrustratedPPCIns> Agreed - that's what I was thinking. It looks normal on my other machines, but the Mac doesn't seem to like the disc.
[05:06] <FrustratedPPCIns> It's about time there was a decent installer for PPC - YellowDog notwithstanding.
[05:06] <Kamion> elmo_dc: oh my god, the code in update-grub to convert device names is a nightmare
[05:06] <Dr_WIllis> for linux on macs befor. I often (on my old imac) had to boot to the firmware and force it to boot off the cd
[05:07] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: in all fairness I should say that we basically just use Debian's in-development installer with a number of tweaks :)
[05:07] <Dr_WIllis> i cant rember HOW i did that however. :P
[05:07] <Kamion> well, "tweaks" is possibly too small a description now, but
[05:07] <robster> FrustratedPPCIns: could you try dd'ing from the block device in fedora and md5sum'ing against the original
[05:07] <elmo_dc> kamion: yeah :(
[05:07] <Kamion> Dr_WIllis: sometimes holding down the option key during boot to get the graphical menu thing is easier
[05:08] <robster> FrustratedPPCIns: s/could you/you could/
[05:08] <Kamion> Dr_WIllis: also I believe some systems require Command-Option-Shift-Delete rather than C
[05:08] <FrustratedPPCIns> I don't get any options from the graphical menu, only Mac OS X.
[05:08] <Dr_WIllis> Kamion,  yea. i had issues and never could get some of that stuff to work. Perhaps I was holding the key down too hard.
[05:09] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: sounds like the CD is totally unreadable by the drive, so I doubt that software solutions will help
[05:09] <Dr_WIllis> Kamion,  i was sort of amazed tht Apple could have such a user 'friendly' os/gui - and the deeper stuff be very very odd/obscoure/weird. :P
[05:09] <Kamion> Dr_WIllis: booting powerpcs is often a bit of a black art, yes
[05:10] <Dr_WIllis> Kamion,  lol :P thats being nice about it.
[05:11] <lamont> jdub: if you're keeping score: xresprobe_0.4.7 gnome-themes_2.8.0-0ubuntu2 kdenetwork_4:3.2.2-1ubuntu2 kdebase_4:3.2.2-1ubuntu2 cuyo_1.8.3-4ubuntu1
[05:12] <seb128> score of what ?
[05:12] <Kamion> uploads since preview, I'd guess
[05:12] <lamont> yep
[05:13] <matlads> 
[05:13] <lamont> or rather, I knew about 3 of those, but not the first 2...
[05:13] <dieman> he
[05:13] <dieman> heh
[05:13] <dieman> bdale: yeah, my 1mbps dsl is going nuts too
[05:13] <seb128> lamont: that's ok to upload ?
[05:13] <bdale> over 50 kB/s in the first 10 seconds...
[05:14] <seb128> or we should only fix critical bugs ?
[05:14] <Dr_WIllis> i was able to get the cd last night at over 400k/s :P 
[05:14] <bdale> now over 60...
[05:14] <dieman> bdale: our mirror server here has been pegged at 350 connections
[05:14] <jdub> lamont: unconfirmed? :)
[05:14] <jdub> hey bdale 
[05:14] <Kamion> seb128: AFAIK same rules as before preview still apply ...
[05:14] <dieman> bdale: and pusing 50mbps or so
[05:14] <Kamion> seeing as we're still in preview freeze
[05:14] <thom> mine was at about All: Spd: 104.9 KB/0
[05:14] <lamont> seb128: anything you can get mdz/jdub to bless is uploadable.  Otherwise, you die a horrible death
[05:14] <dieman> bdale: alltho we did get rateshaped at one point by the network people because we kept on breaking the network
[05:14] <bdale> dieman: ;-)
[05:14] <bdale> 123 and rising
[05:15] <seb128> jdub: GNOME bugs should be fixed, or just red lines in bugzilla ?
[05:15] <lamont> jdub: the last 3 met criteria from last night.
[05:15] <dieman> ahh, im only giving out 25KB/s now
[05:15] <dieman> i was doing more before
[05:15] <bdale> hovering at 125 kB/s
[05:15] <dieman> i should really port forward the connections
[05:16] <dieman> thats the big problem
[05:16] <spacehymns> my 3mb connection couldn't serve up more than 10 kB/s
[05:16] <jdub> seb128: bugs should be proposed for raising to critical/blocker status
[05:16] <jdub> seb128: then they need upload confirmation from mdz or myself
[05:16] <jdub> seb128: same as before
[05:16] <bdale> a T1 is 1.544 Mb/s symmetrical, and mine is directly on Sprintlink.
[05:16] <seb128> jdub: arg
[05:16] <lamont> Kamion: fwiw, the "criteria from last night" was the kde-in-ubuntu discussion that ended with "no additional risk in making universe things that were ftbfs,source-only in the preview (like kde) build and have binaries.
[05:16] <bdale> just passed 150 kB/s
[05:17] <seb128> jdub: I've uploaded a gnome-themes with smooth in depends to get it into warty ...
[05:17] <jdub> seb128: yeah, saw those, totally fine :)
[05:17] <seb128> ok
[05:17] <bdale> mix is 110/33/4 for i386/powerpc/amd64 at the moment
[05:17] <dieman> heh
[05:17] <jdub> seb128: we might loosen those rules a bit when matt and i sync up
[05:17] <spacehymns> mix of what?
[05:18] <bdale> upload kB/s, a weak first-order proxy for level of interest by BT downloaders
[05:18] <spacehymns> ahhhh
[05:18] <seb128> jdub: would be nice to be allowed to fix GNOME bugs without asking :p
[05:18] <jdub> seb128: ok, i'll chat to matt about it ;)
[05:18] <bdale> amd64 just jumped up big-time, it's 100/30/30 now
[05:19] <spacehymns> oh... that must be my 26-node amd64 cluster
[05:19] <bdale> oh well, enough noise, interesting to see lots of folks snarfing via bittorrent, which is cool
[05:19] <dieman> there we go, setup the port forward
[05:20] <highvoltage> hi guys, what have I missed in here since this morning :)
[05:20] <bdale> highvoltage: it's morning now...  ;-)
[05:20] <highvoltage> the room has definately got bigger
[05:20] <highvoltage> must be the slashdot effect
[05:20] <spacehymns> yep
[05:23] <ggi> I'm filing a bug. Should I tick the "People who can see the Warty Warthog bugs" box?
[05:24] <jdub> ggi: nah
[05:24] <jdub> ggi: sorry that'sconfusing
[05:25] <ggi> jdub: Ok then. Should I file a bug on that too? :P
[05:28] <Mayday> is this the torrent to use to download ubuntu: http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/releases/warty/preview/warty-i386.iso.torrent ?
[05:28] <Kamion> Mayday: yep
[05:28] <spacehymns> that looks right
[05:28] <Mayday> ok thanks
[05:30] <kl> hi, i was just looking at the screenshots, unfortunately i don't have the time to install a new distro right now, but i'd very much like to have that menu patch for gnome-panel, anyone know where it's located? i'm browsing the distro mirrors, but i can't seem to find it
[05:31] <MacPlusG3> goodnight ppl - congrats on a great preview release!
[05:32] <jdub> ggi: i'll make sure that's fixed, thanks
[05:32] <defendguin> i like the choice of firefox as the default browser. awesome choice
[05:33] <spacehymns> yeah, I'm tired of Konqueror
[05:33] <ninja> installing Ubuntu didn't go too well - machine kept freezing at varying points within the first 30-60 seconds of running the installer :(
[05:33] <azeem> yeah, so you can configure your proxy twice :)
[05:33] <highvoltage> where do I find the universe?
[05:33] <spacehymns> right here
[05:33] <ninja> unfortunately nothing reproducible enough to warrant a bug report
[05:33] <sivang> highvoltage : you have to add sources
[05:33] <highvoltage> and how do I define it in my sources.list?
[05:34] <sivang> highvoltage : you have to add sources to your /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:34] <sivang> acutally, you just need to add the word "universe"
[05:34] <highvoltage> I know, I'd just like to know the address :)
[05:34] <highvoltage> ah, ok
[05:34] <sivang> after the "main"
[05:34] <highvoltage> thanks
[05:34] <beezly> heheh
[05:34] <beezly> our mail servers stuffed
[05:34] <beezly> one half of it's mirror failed
[05:34] <beezly> then whilst it was resyncing, the other half popped its clogs
[05:34] <FrustratedPPCIns> Karmion - thank you, slow burn on old burner has produced a CD my G4 can read.
[05:35] <beezly> 30,000 staff and students... down the pan :)
[05:35] <Kamion> FrustratedPPCIns: cool
[05:37] <Kamion> kl: if you're comfortable using interdiff (it's in the Debian patchutils package), you could extract it from the .diff.gz in http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gnome-panel/
[05:37] <kl> aaaah, thanks
[05:37] <Kamion> beezly: yay for homogeneous disk arrays :-/
[05:37] <cc> /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part3: Not enough space to build proposed filesystem while setting up superblock <-- known ppc error?
[05:38] <Kamion> cc: not one I've ever heard of
[05:38] <Kamion> cc: default partitioning, or manual?
[05:38] <cc> Kamion: doing a manual partition
[05:38] <Kamion> cc: if you can extract /var/log/partman for the bug report, that might be useful
[05:39] <cc> Kamion: ok. dhcp also didn't work on the imacDVse. so i'll bugreport it. just registered for a bugzilal account
[05:40] <cc> Kamion: ok. in the console, there's no scp or anything? how do i push this to another machine conveniently?
[05:40] <FrustratedPPCIns> OK, Mac OS X can see my disk, in openfirmware do I need to type boot cd:,\install\
[05:40] <Kamion> cc: you should have nc
[05:41] <cc> ah. nc.
[05:41] <highvoltage> Why was Evolution chosen as the default mail client instead of thunderbird?
[05:41] <Kamion> cc: you might be able to extract scp from stuff in /cdrom/pool/main/o/openssh/, but it's not exactly a non-expert path ...
[05:41] <[Clint] > FrustratedPPCIns: try boot cd:,\install\yaboot
[05:41] <highvoltage> I like evolution, but I thought Mark was a big fan of thunderbird
[05:41] <cc> Kamion: yeah, my debian-fu is obviously clearly lacking. i'm very used to anaconda
[05:41] <Kamion> I suspect we had an argument about evolution; it was one I avoided :)
[05:41] <FrustratedPPCIns> Gah - I get bad READ-1 can't open
[05:42] <jdub> highvoltage: evolution is a great product, supports groupware functions, etc.
[05:43] <jdub> highvoltage: thunderbird is always available in supported for those who want it, though :)
[05:43] <jdub> Kamion: no argument on that one ;)
[05:43] <Kamion> cc: by the time we get to hoary I should be able to give you one-liner instructions to get scp on the second console
[05:43] <Kamion> I did a fair bit of work on that in Debian, but some of it's still ongoing
[05:43] <highvoltage> I know, I use it too. It's just that he has bounties for it on his site, and he uses it, so I would have thought that he would push thunderbird. I was just curious on why or how evolution was chosen
[05:43] <cc> Kamion: yeah, its just a case of me actually getting used to d-i
[05:44] <highvoltage> I deducted that it's because it's now part of GNOME (right?) and it makes sense to use it
[05:44] <Kamion> highvoltage: we don't *always* go for Mark's personal preferences ... :-)
[05:44] <Kamion> *ahem*
[05:44] <highvoltage> ah
[05:44] <highvoltage> :)
[05:44] <jdub> heh
[05:45] <jdub> highvoltage: gotta weigh up appropriateness for the majority of users, market leadership, etc., etc.
[05:46] <Kamion> elmo_dc: do we (or Debian) have a box with cciss that I could log into and experiment?
[05:47] <highvoltage> I know this is way off-topic, but you guys might appreciate it, I have a useless CD that I use as a coaster: http://69.90.153.197/coaster.jpg
[05:47] <tritium> :)
[05:47] <falkryn> heh
[05:48] <Kamion> highvoltage: certainly appreciate the choice of disk ... :)
[05:48] <highvoltage> thanks ;) I wish they would stop sending me stuff
[05:48] <falkryn> hey, if there's developpers on this channel I just wanted to extend a job very very well done kudos, I installed ubuntu at work this morning, very slick
[05:49] <falkryn> this may take the place as my favorite distro now (previously help between slackware and debian(
[05:50] <jdub> falkryn: awesome, thanks :)
[05:50] <jdub> falkryn: we're all here ;)
[05:50] <Kamion> falkryn: yup, this was originally our development channel ;)
[05:50] <falkryn> cool
[05:50] <highvoltage> I couldn't decide between slack and debian and gentoo
[05:50] <highvoltage> I think ubuntu made it easy for me now
[05:51] <highvoltage> (but first I'll download the universe)
[05:51] <dieman> why doesn't gpdf have a search feature?!
[05:51] <highvoltage> so there goes our bandwidth again :)
[05:54] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok, so what's the main diff between ubuntu and debian?
[05:54] <rburton> mxpxpod: ubuntu just works, debian needs love
[05:55] <mxpxpod> rburton: heh
[05:55] <highvoltage> debian has slower release cycles
[05:55] <highvoltage> (very slow), making it almost useless for desktop use
[05:55] <mxpxpod> I noticed that ubuntu already has gnome 2.8 in too :D
[05:55] <andred> Can someone confirm this: Open Computer->System Configuration->Printing, right-click on a printer and choose Properties. Change the name of the printer and choose 'Close'. The printer in the "Printers" window still has the old name.
[05:55] <highvoltage> Ubuuntu has bi-yearly releases, making it much more attractive for the average user
[05:56] <seb128> mxpxpod: with gnome-media 2.8.0 and epiphany 1.4.0 :p
[05:56] <mxpxpod> seb128: :P
[05:56] <rburton> andred: i noticed something similar this morning. you have to close and re-open printers to get it to refresh
[05:56] <mxpxpod> is there a ppc live cd?
[05:56] <Kamion> mxpxpod: afraid not
[05:56] <djempak> will the packages in main will be updated regularly?
[05:56] <Kamion> currently it's i386 only
[05:56] <djempak> eh -will
[05:56] <mxpxpod> Kamion: suck
[05:56] <Kamion> mxpxpod: (but it's one of the things I want to look at, as a powerpc porter)
[05:56] <andred> rbutron: It doesn't help doing that here even.
[05:57] <Kamion> djempak: they're mostly frozen for warty now, but when hoary opens up, yes
[05:57] <djempak> ah
[05:57] <mxpxpod> Kamion: I'm scared to install ubuntu w/o checking it out first...
[05:57] <highvoltage> hoary? was that name suggested by a gentoo developer :)
[05:58] <rburton> mxpxpod: i'm running sid on my laptop for DD work, but my work desktop is ubuntu and my home desktop will be shortly. its lovely :)
[05:58] <rburton> mxpxpod: the gnome menu reorg by jdub/seb128 is really nice
[05:58] <mxpxpod> does ubuntu have pretty much the same packages as debian?
[05:58] <Kamion> highvoltage: not as far as I know :)
[05:59] <highvoltage> I hava another question (sorry to be a pest)...
[05:59] <highvoltage> how do I become a ubuntu developer?
[05:59] <Kamion> mxpxpod: depends what you mean; warty started out as a snapshot of sid, has been worked on by variously syncing new versions from sid or by making Ubuntu-specific changes
[05:59] <highvoltage> Is there a "whishlist" of stuff that needs to be done?
[05:59] <andred> Should crashes in stuff like gnome-cups-manager be reported upstreams, or to Ubuntu?
[06:00] <highvoltage> i would love to help where I can
[06:00] <ish> hmm.. lists not on gmane yet.
[06:00] <highvoltage> I also want to learn about stuff
[06:00] <highvoltage> I'm quite envious of you guys, I want to make my own distro too
[06:01] <jsan> Hello, does ubuntu offer network installation?
[06:01] <Kamion> highvoltage: I don't think we can coherently answer that *yet*, but we *are* working on setting up the infrastructure we need for that
[06:03] <Kamion> jsan: http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/netboot/, when it isn't quite so slashdotted
[06:03] <kl> ubuntu's panel is indeed nice, though it says "about ubuntu" on my gentoo too now =] 
[06:03] <lypanov> yoyo clee 
[06:03] <jsan> Kamion: cool, thanks
[06:03] <clee> daniels: dude.
[06:03] <clee> daniels: wtf is up with tycho
[06:03] <clee> ?
[06:05] <mxpxpod> does ubuntu come with make-kpkg (or can I get it)?
[06:05] <maswan> Kamion: http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ ?
[06:05] <Kamion> maswan: bingo
[06:05] <lypanov> clee: he said something about uber high load
[06:06] <clee> lypanov: wtf. I saw that on gabe, but ... tycho doesn't *do* anything
[06:06] <lypanov> clee: hehe. maybe net went down? :P
[06:06] <clee> lypanov: what are you doing in here, anyway? :)
[06:06] <lypanov> clee: gonna try the cd in the coming few days :)
[06:06] <clee> lypanov: nice :)
[06:08] <mxpxpod> ok, quick questions:
[06:08] <mxpxpod> 1. does the ubuntu installer support xfs?
[06:08] <clee> mxpxpod: yes.
[06:08] <Kamion> mxpxpod: yes, but not on /boot
[06:08] <Kamion> (grub fails)
[06:08] <Kamion> mxpxpod: oh, hey, you're on ppc - should be fine then
[06:09] <mxpxpod> Kamion: cool... my /boot is ext2
[06:09] <mxpxpod> 2. do I have to format the partitions I specify for the installer to use? (like /home)
[06:09] <clee> mxpxpod: I don't think so, but I could be wrong...
[06:09] <Kamion> mxpxpod: you can either tell the installer to format them, or you can say "use existing data on this partition" (or whatever it says)
[06:09] <mxpxpod> Kamion: awesome
[06:10] <Kamion> mxpxpod: definitely use the manual partitioning option, of course
[06:10] <mxpxpod> Kamion: of course :)
[06:10] <mxpxpod> btw, how do I grab the iso's using bittorrent?
[06:10] <clee> mxpxpod: ... have you ever downloaded something with bittorrent before?
[06:11] <mxpxpod> clee: I have, but it was a long time ago...
[06:11] <tseng> mxpxpod, grab the .torrent
[06:11] <mxpxpod> tseng: got it
[06:11] <tseng> with wget or something and run the bittorrent client against it
[06:11] <falkryn> if one wants to, could you run a 2.4 vanilla custom kernel instead of the provided 2.6?
[06:11] <tseng> falkryn: alot of stuff in the distro depends on udev
[06:12] <tseng> but you could if you really wanted to i guess
[06:12] <clee> mxpxpod: if you have the official bittorrent client stuff, you can then do 'btdownloadcurses.py --repsonsefile filename.torrent'
[06:12] <falkryn> not so much me wanting to, another fellow here at work at this point refuses to run 2.6
[06:12] <mxpxpod> clee: awesome... I didn't know what the client's command was called
[06:12] <mxpxpod> falkryn: tell him he's paranoid
[06:12] <mxpxpod> :D
[06:12] <falkryn> heh
[06:13] <mxpxpod> I've run 2.6 since 2.6.2 (IIRC) and haven't had any problems
[06:13] <clee> mxpxpod: no prob
[06:13] <tseng> ive been using it since 2.5.20
[06:13] <mxpxpod> wait, no... I've run it since 2.5.something
[06:13] <tseng> ive had lots of problems :)
[06:13] <tseng> but that was then.
[06:13] <mxpxpod> tseng: really?
[06:13] <cc> is there a groupinstall option? like apt-get groupinstall gnome ?
[06:13] <cc> and it'll pull in depends and so on
[06:13] <falkryn> I think its the idea that there won't be a 2.7 tree for development now, and distros will be responsible for stabilization of the tree
[06:13] <tseng> yeah no problems for a long time now
[06:14] <falkryn> not crazy about that myself
[06:14] <tseng> falkryn: me neither
[06:14] <tseng> seeing as I develop a kernel for gentoo
[06:14] <trukulo> cc, you have metapackages, gnome is one of them (i think)
[06:14] <tseng> it makes me sad.
[06:14] <mxpxpod> wait a minute... there's not going to be a 2.7?
[06:14] <tseng> mxpxpod: not soon
[06:14] <mxpxpod> well, we didn't have a 2.5 very soon after 2.4...
[06:15] <tseng> well, they are going to do bigger developments than usual in the stable tree
[06:15] <tseng> instead of branching
[06:15] <clee> heh. bigger than replacing the entire VM during a stable tree?
[06:15] <mxpxpod> tseng: ohhhhhh, I see
[06:15] <tseng> they will only branch when they have something really hardcore
[06:15] <falkryn> but what;s this about distros doing the stabilization?  
[06:15] <tseng> mxpxpod: its not a great idea if you ask me
[06:15] <mxpxpod> tseng: they should put a new kernel option in... "Run ultra unstable code..."
[06:16] <cc> trukulo: and how do i go about installing a metapackage?
[06:16] <tseng> falkryn: we are supposed to revert bad patches and stuff I guess
[06:16] <tseng> im still distributing 2.6.7 for gentoo servers
[06:17] <schweeb> cc: same way you install a regular package
[06:17] <schweeb> dpkg -i or apt-get install
[06:17] <ggi> Doesn't Ubuntu run hald by default? I thought it was necessary for the Project Utopia stuff.
[06:17] <daniels> clee: i have no idea -- apparently it's just solidlocking
[06:17] <daniels> clee: happened earlier in the day, catastrophe had a look and it was solid-locked
[06:17] <jdub> ggi: it does run hald by default
[06:17] <clee> daniels: wtf, dude. who's doing that?
[06:17] <schweeb> ggi: yes, it is running
[06:17] <clee> daniels: btw, seen the load on gabe?
[06:17] <daniels> clee: um, you tell me?
[06:17] <clee> daniels: it was at 20 last I checked
[06:17] <daniels> wtf?
[06:18] <ggi> Well, it's not running for me, for some reason. I'll go investigate.
[06:18] <clee> gone back down now... but it was at 20.7 before
[06:18] <clee>  09:18:29 up 37 days, 23:53,  8 users,  load average: 6.37, 5.70, 8.30
[06:20] <daniels> oh, right
[06:20] <daniels> someone's merging XORG-6_8_0 and CYGWIN
[06:20] <daniels> huzzah!
[06:20] <jdub> whoa
[06:20] <jdub> rad
[06:21] <mxpxpod> jdub: so, you have ubuntu installed on ppc, right?
[06:21] <clee> heh, back up to 10.57
[06:21] <Kamion> ggi: probably crashed :-(
[06:21] <clee> son of a bitch, that's insane
[06:21] <falkryn> tseng: so you're a gentoo kernel developper also working on ubuntu now?  that's pretty neat, what's brought you to the project if I could ask?
[06:21] <daniels> load should be slowly spooling down
[06:21] <jdub> mxpxpod: on my bright green toilet seat
[06:22] <mxpxpod> jdub: lol, ok
[06:22] <jdub> mxpxpod: and i've seen it installed and running on many other kinds.
[06:22] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok, good :)
[06:22] <DrPascal> Hey all -- Installing Ubuntu with PXE? Yes/no?
[06:22] <mxpxpod> jdub: does the mad phat startup stuff work on ppc?
[06:22] <jdub> DrPascal: yes, can do, netboot images on the CD/ftp site
[06:22] <tseng> falkryn: i love gnome, gnome oriented distro.. so i installed it, and it rocked.
[06:22] <jdub> mxpxpod: mad phat startup will be in Hoary
[06:22] <DrPascal> jdub: Thanks! [gets] 
[06:22] <mxpxpod> jdub: oh, ok
[06:22] <jdub> mxpxpod: and will work on every arch
[06:23] <mxpxpod> jdub: awesome
[06:23] <azeem> are there plans to GNOMEify synaptic a bit more on your tables?
[06:23] <falkryn> tseng:  I'm a big gnome fan now too.  2.8 is frickin' sweet.  Nice to see a new distro concentrating it instead of KDE. 
[06:23] <kl> it'd be fantastic if the "Computer" menu incorporated the file chooser bookmarks :o
[06:24] <falkryn> no offence to KDE fans of course ;-)
[06:24] <lypanov> or devels :P
[06:24] <falkryn> heh
[06:24] <mxpxpod> does someone have a SS of the reorganized menu?
[06:24] <DrPascal> jdub: URL for where the netboot images are?
[06:24] <uberlinuxguy> I was just impressed as to how fast you guys got gnome 2.8 into the distro and released it.  Then I heard there was a bunch of gnome guys on the distro.  Very cool.
[06:24] <DrPascal> [please] 
[06:25] <jdub> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[06:25] <kl> mxpxpod, http://osdir.com/screenshots/index.php?directory=gnome2.8
[06:25] <DrPascal> jdub: Thanks again
[06:28] <mxpxpod> kl: thanks
[06:28] <mxpxpod> that layout rawks!!
[06:28] <kl> ya
[06:28] <mxpxpod> hazzah's are in order!
[06:28] <kl> just missing the file chooser bookmarks =] 
[06:29] <jdub> kl: and dynamic disks list :)
[06:29] <mxpxpod> kl: oh well :)
[06:29] <mxpxpod> kl: maybe they'll update it ;)
[06:29] <lypanov> k
[06:29] <CJ2055> Hey, I'm a noob to ubuntu, I'm wondering if someone can help me in installing superkaramba
[06:29] <kl> that'd be great :)
[06:30] <lypanov> clee: me going off to buy the computer that i'll install ubuntu on :P
[06:30] <clee> lypanov: heheheheheh
[06:30] <clee> lypanov: well, good luck with that
[06:31] <lypanov> clee: :P
[06:31] <lypanov> clee: can't be arsed with gen2 anymore :P
[06:31] <CJ2055> only karamba is in the repository, is there a package for it, if not whatpackages do I have tp install in order to compile it
[06:32] <defendguin> i installed ubuntu on an extra /dev/hdd but i didnt want it writing over my grub bootloader i already have on the MBR so i was going to edit my grub.conf could anyone post their grub.conf?
[06:33] <falkryn> ls
[06:33] <falkryn> sorry 
[06:33] <highvoltage> I'm off too now. I'm still really excited by ubuntu, and I'll visit the irc frequently... cu guys
[06:33] <falkryn> too many terminals
[06:33] <CJ2055> noone uses superkaramba then...
[06:33] <CJ2055> no pretty eyecandy?
[06:34] <falkryn> anyone have suggestions for a dialup tool in ubuntu (other than wvdial say?)  
[06:34] <clee> I think they're more likely to use gdesklets
[06:34] <Kamion> defendguin: don't have a convenient i386 box right now, but if it helps, the Ubuntu installer detects entries in your existing grub configuration and includes them in the one it writes out
[06:34] <CJ2055> ah there you go, that was my next question, gnome version
[06:34] <CJ2055> thanks clee
[06:34] <jdub> CJ2055: 2.8
[06:35] <clee> jdub: no, he meant - what's the GNOME version of 'karamba' / 'superkaramba'
[06:35] <CJ2055> oh I meant a gnome version of karamba = gdesklets
[06:35] <clee> jdub: which would be gdesklets
[06:35] <defendguin> i got some sort of a parse error when i tried to do it on my own
[06:35] <jdub> oh right
[06:35] <mxpxpod> ok, here's a dumb question... if I do "Manually edit partition table" and want to add more swap space... I modify /dev/hda3 (swap) and take space away from /dev/hda5 (/), but leave /dev/hda6 (home) alone... will it screw up my home partition?
[06:36] <jdub> well, gdesklets is not in main, but may be in universe
[06:36] <jdub> mxpxpod: unlikely
[06:36] <jdub> mxpxpod: it's very well tested, and i've done the same thing on a number of machines
[06:36] <clee> mxpxpod: you've got backups, right? :)
[06:36] <mxpxpod> clee: actually, no
[06:37] <clee> mxpxpod: heh. um, I'd recommend them. :)
[06:37] <mxpxpod> clee: backing up 15G of data isn't the easiest thing in the world...
[06:38] <Kamion> my server's disk is functionally infinite capacity as far as I'm concerned at the moment
[06:39] <CJ2055> iPod is my backup tool
[06:39] <lamont> kdebase/i386 is in the archive
[06:39] <lamont> ditto kdebase/amd64.
[06:40] <lamont> with apologies to those preferring kde who use powerpc's. :-(
[06:40] <mxpxpod> I think I need a new cd...
[06:40] <defendguin> i know you all have a grub.conf could someone please let me see theirs
[06:41] <azeem> defendguin: just add /vmlinuz and /initrd.img
[06:41] <mxpxpod> defendguin: not all have a grub.conf... ppc users don't ;)
[06:41] <defendguin> heh
[06:41] <defendguin>  root (hdd,1)
[06:41] <defendguin>  kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-2-386 ro root=LABEL=/
[06:41] <defendguin> initrd /initrd.img-2.6.8.1-2-386
[06:42] <mxpxpod> I'm so glad I'm on ppc and don't have to worry about initrd stuff :D
[06:42] <peacemaker885> is it grub.conf or menu.lst
[06:42] <defendguin> but i get a parse error when i try to boot
[06:42] <defendguin> grub.conf
[06:42] <Kamion> mxpxpod: oh, you do, it's just that your yaboot.conf is like that already ...
[06:42] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hehe
[06:43] <Kamion> defendguin: can you really use root=LABEL=/ that way?
[06:43] <azeem> defendguin: the hdd in root might be bogus
[06:43] <Kamion> I'd be inclined to put the actual device name there
[06:43] <m_tthew> that LABEL stuff has always sketched me out
[06:43] <defendguin>  root /dev/hdd1  ?
[06:44] <Kamion> root=/dev/hdd1
[06:44] <mxpxpod> ok, when I choose a username in the second stage install, I'll choose "bryan" which is already on my /home partition and all files under that user's directory have ownership by bryan:users... is that alright?
[06:45] <Kosai> mxpxpod: They have ownership to that UID, not that username.
[06:45] <defendguin> well ill try this be back in a bit
[06:45] <Kamion> mxpxpod: if the username on the other partition maps to UID 1000, then it should just work (by luck)
[06:46] <mxpxpod> Kamion: how do I check that?
[06:46] <Kamion> mxpxpod: 'id bryan'
[06:46] <mxpxpod> Kamion: sweet... 1000
[06:47] <mxpxpod> Kamion: what group do user's files get set to?
[06:48] <Kamion> mxpxpod: the same, 1000
[06:48] <Kamion> mxpxpod: Ubuntu uses per-user groups
[06:48] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hmm...
[06:48] <mxpxpod> so I may have problems...
[06:49] <Kamion> mxpxpod: provided that your other home directory is chmodded g+s, you should be fine
[06:49] <mxpxpod> Kamion: "other" home directory?
[06:49] <Kamion> mxpxpod: sorry, your existing /home
[06:50] <Kamion> /home/bryan that is
[06:50] <Kamion> 'ls -ld /home/bryan'
[06:50] <mxpxpod> Kamion: and how do I check if it's g+s?
[06:50] <mxpxpod> drwxr-xr-x  162 bryan users 12288 2004-09-16 11:12 /home/bryan/
[06:50] <Kamion> mxpxpod: 'find /home/bryan -type d | xargs chmod g+s'
[06:51] <Kamion> that'll make it play nicely, but will still leave your existing installation working
[06:51] <clee> xargs is weak. you should use -exec chmod g+s \{\} \;
[06:51] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hmm
[06:51] <mxpxpod> clee: hehe
[06:51] <Kamion> clee: er, no, why?
[06:51] <mxpxpod> ok, what does g+s do?
[06:51] <clee> Kamion: because xargs won't work right if any of your directory names have spaces.
[06:51] <seb128> do we still have liveCD downloadable somewhere at this point ?
[06:51] <Kamion> clee: 'find /home/bryan -type d -print0 | xargs -0 chmod g+s', then
[06:51] <thom> find -print0 |xargs -0 then
[06:52] <clee> heh. cheaters. :)
[06:52] <jdub> seb128: only in matt's space, but not officially
[06:52] <Kamion> mxpxpod: setgid directories mean that new files created in that directory have the same group ownership as that of the directory itself, regardless of the user's primary group
[06:52] <jdub> seb128: those are old
[06:52] <maswan> Hmm.. You guys want cdimage mirrors too?
[06:52] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ah, ok
[06:52] <Kamion> maswan: yes please
[06:52] <mxpxpod> Kamion: what about my old files in those dirs?
[06:53] <neils> How do I get nvidia working?
[06:53] <Kamion> mxpxpod: they're fine, the point of the setgid bit on the directories is so that you can leave them that way
[06:53] <mxpxpod> Kamion: oh, ok
[06:53] <mxpxpod> Kamion: and this isn't insecure?
[06:53] <seb128> jdub: ok, people keep asking and I was not sure
[06:53] <seb128> thanks
[06:54] <maswan> Kamion: Hmm.. How large?
[06:54] <zack> i'm a little confused about something. ubuntu is based on debian, but it supports amd64. how does that work?
[06:54] <Kamion> mxpxpod: never heard of any problems with it ...
[06:54] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ok, just making sure
[06:54] <Kamion> zack: we're based on Debian's *source* packages; we rebuilt all of them for all our architectures
[06:55] <mxpxpod> Kamion: if my home dir is already there, will it overwrite my .bashrc when I create the new user?
[06:55] <thom> zack: we integrated the work done by the debian amd64 folk, and as Kamion says, we just rebuilt
[06:55] <Kamion> zack: everything that just worked on amd64 we didn't worry about, but we had to fix up a number of things
[06:55] <zack> Kamion: so you did your own porting?
[06:55] <zack> oh, i see
[06:55] <neils> If I change my sources to sid and do apt-get update/upgrade will I be running a standard sid system? Or is that not a good idea?
[06:55] <clee> zack: heh.
[06:55] <clee> zack: you grab the ISO from my workstation yet?
[06:55] <mxpxpod> Kamion: sorry I'm asking so many questions
[06:56] <Kamion> mxpxpod: if the home directory already exists, adduser leaves it alone
[06:56] <zack> so maybe one of you knows why debian still doesn't officially support the amd64 port?
[06:56] <mxpxpod> Kamion: awesome
[06:56] <zack> clee: yep
[06:56] <clee> zack: rock.
[06:56] <thom> neils: "standard sid" is an interesting concept, but sure.
[06:57] <neils> thom, thanks.
[06:57] <ggi> I'm getting this PNPBIOS error at the start, and it's like, bitchbitchbitch reboot with the "nobiospnp" option to operate stably bitchbitchbitch. I tried adding this to the kopt line of /boot/grub/menu.lst, and doing update-grub, but I still get the same error on reboot. Am I entering it in the wrong place?
[06:57] <clee> thom: can you do me a favor and smack daniels around a bit?
[06:57] <thom> zack: there are a number of infrastructure issues, plus amd64 really needs gcc3.4, so debian will need to plan and do the g++ abi transition at some point
[06:57] <neils> Like, I wanted chromium on here...and nvidia of course to show off...so that is my next step...but so far ubuntu looks nice.
[06:57] <thom> clee: well, i suspect you're closer to him than i am
[06:57] <clee> thom: ?
[06:57] <thom> but sure ;-)
[06:57] <clee> thom: is he in .us again?
[06:57] <thom> clee: i'm .uk
[06:58] <zack> thom: aha. that's more information than even the port team could tell me.
[06:58] <zack> clee: running the installer now
[06:58] <clee> thom: ah. well, I suspect you'll see him again sooner than I will.
[06:58] <clee> zack: w00t
[06:58] <thom> oh, quite possibly
[06:58] <thom> if you don't see him first, i'll be happy to :-)
[06:58] <thom> neils: nvidia drivers are in the restricted repository
[06:59] <thom> don't ask me how they work, i don't have any nvidia kit :-)
[06:59] <clee> heheheheh
[06:59] <neils> thom, do you know if kernel source is installed by default?  If so I can compile the nvidia drivers myself.
[06:59] <clee> the nvidia drivers have always worked fine for me...
[06:59] <thom> neils: they're compiled for you
[06:59] <neils> k
[06:59] <Kamion> bugger, I've confused gluck
[07:00] <daniels> at least it doesn't have hardware issues a la fooish
[07:00] <zack> nvidia's worked well for me too, just don't do anything fancy
[07:00] <neils> clee did you have to modify XF86Config-4 or is there an automated script like Kano has made for kanotix?
[07:00] <clee> daniels: :-/
[07:00] <clee> neils: no idea, I haven't got ubuntu on my nvidia systems
[07:00] <tseng> you have to change the driver line
[07:00] <tseng> to nvidia
[07:00] <tseng> from nv
[07:01] <neils> tseng ok...np
[07:01] <Kamion> 24747 pts/0    D      0:02 ./grub --batch --device-map=device.map
[07:01] <maswan> rsync://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/ <- rsync url for the main mirror at acc btw.
[07:01] <tseng> i tihnk just installing nvidia-glx will pull in the right packages
[07:01] <tseng> dont quote me
[07:01] <clee> jdub: wibbling?
[07:01] <zack> heh. i don't think ubuntu will install on this box.
[07:03] <thom> tseng: that looks right, yeah
[07:04] <neighborlee> hi all
[07:04] <neighborlee> problems ;(
[07:04] <will``> I'm having probems installing on vmware, where is the M so i might RTF thing ?
[07:04] <neighborlee> I installed ubuntu..fine mostly...but X wont start
[07:04] <neighborlee> ie: gdm < not found...same with startx
[07:04] <neighborlee>  ?
[07:04] <daniels> how so? what sort of video card do you have?
[07:05] <daniels> huh?
[07:05] <tseng> eh
[07:05] <daniels> did you install properly from the desktop iso?
[07:05] <daniels> i need to sleep
[07:05] <neighborlee> daniels: of course I did
[07:05] <neighborlee> no I used my cats toy
[07:05] <zack> well there goes help :)
[07:06] <neighborlee> great just in time lol
[07:06] <thom> neighborlee: did you get any errors during the install?
[07:06] <neighborlee> throm: only one that I can see
[07:06] <neighborlee> thom: it tried to access ext3 but I used reiserfs
[07:06] <neighborlee> wait ...one more
[07:06] <neighborlee> it also tried to 'update' at end
[07:06] <neighborlee> but gave error that it was unable to and started aptitude
[07:07] <neighborlee> thats it 
[07:07] <will``> has anyone successfully installed ubuntu on VMware?
[07:07] <Tomcat_> I love Ubuntu so far... just installed it... but /dev/dsp doesn't work, while /dev/dsp1 does... any ideas?
[07:07] <will``> I'm having problems
[07:07] <will``> i want to properly try it out before installing it on my hard disk
[07:07] <maswan> {http,rsync}://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu-cdimage/ when it's done
[07:08] <fabbione> will``: i doubt someone tested the installed in vmware
[07:08] <neighborlee> startx says X not found as well
[07:08] <neighborlee> err I mean command not found
[07:08] <neighborlee> thom: any ideas there ;(
[07:08] <thom> neighborlee: if you type 'sudo aptitude install ~tDesktop' what happens?
[07:08] <Kamion> sounds like you're lacking the xbase-clients package
[07:08] <will``> fabbione: so not much chance for help then? It fails during the installation of the base system
[07:09] <Kamion> neighborlee: that should be '~tubuntu-desktop' at the end of thom's command
[07:09] <neighborlee> tom: OK one se c
[07:09] <neighborlee> Kamion: ok
[07:09] <thom> Kamion: when did that change? heh :-)
[07:09] <DrPascal> is there a way to disable the floppy in a netboot? "floppy=???" 
[07:09] <neils> ok brb restarting x
[07:09] <fabbione> will``: i am sorry.. i don't have a licence for vmware to test and hounestly i don't plan to buy one
[07:09] <neighborlee> hahah this bites..i'm talking to you via gaim in linspire
[07:09] <Kamion> thom: some time back ...
[07:09] <neighborlee> please someone RESCSUE me LFMAO
[07:10] <tseng> oh man..
[07:10] <Kamion> base-config (2.35ubuntu22) warty; urgency=low
[07:10] <Kamion>   * lib/menu/pkgsel: 'desktop' task renamed to 'ubuntu-desktop'.
[07:10] <Kamion>  -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@flatline.org.uk>  Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:24:11 +0100
[07:10] <will``> fabbione: ah, don't worry then :(
[07:10] <tseng> at least install fedora or something
[07:10] <neighborlee> LOL
[07:10] <zack> or debian sarge
[07:10] <neighborlee> well this is on my  other halfs puter..so no I can't LOL
[07:10] <neighborlee> and I dont think I want to.I dont trust FC frankly
[07:11] <zack> neighborlee: with what?
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: ?
[07:11] <zack> neighborlee: you don't trust FC. why?
[07:11] <DrPascal> The PXE netboot is freezing during the floppy detection. Is there a way to disable this?
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: with anything
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: its beta quality IMO
[07:11] <Kosai> neighborlee: But you trust a day-old distribution released by a mostly nameless group of developers?  :)
[07:11] <santiago> how can I know what type of wireless card do I have?
[07:11] <clee> neighborlee: Debian's better? ;)
[07:11] <neighborlee> zack: errors...
[07:12] <neighborlee> clee: yes it is
[07:12] <santiago> it appears under Device Manager as unknown device
[07:12] <zack> neighborlee: ah. yum issues then?
[07:12] <neighborlee> dont get me wrong..FC is innovative in some ways;..I just wont trust it to my workstation
[07:12] <Kosai> santiago: It's PCMCIA?  `cardctl ident` works for me.
[07:12] <clee> it sucks less these days, don't get me wrong
[07:12] <clee> but it still sucks :)
[07:12] <neighborlee> exactly
[07:12] <zack> it will always suck
[07:12] <Kamion> "In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name. His name is Robert Paulson."
[07:13] <neighborlee> heh
[07:13] <clee> heh, that was unexpected
[07:13] <clee> neighborlee: see, zack and I both work for red hat :)
[07:13] <Tomcat_> No idea about broken /dev/dsp?
[07:13] <santiago> kosai: yes, but doesn't show really the information I want ;-)
[07:13] <zack> ssh!
[07:13] <neighborlee> clee: you kidding right
[07:13] <jdub> Kamion: randomness?
[07:13] <Kamion> jdub: 18:11 < Kosai> neighborlee: But you trust a day-old distribution released by a mostly nameless group of developers?  :)
[07:13] <clee> god dammit, xchat sucks my ass
[07:13] <zack> you can whois me
[07:13] <zack> clee: no shit!
[07:14] <neighborlee> oh  my gosh he's not kidding!!
[07:14] <jdub> Kamion: haha :)
[07:14] <clee> every time I try to delete a word it closes the channel
[07:14] <clee> weak
[07:14] <neighborlee> zack: well zack..
[07:14] <dredg> that 'valid xhtml' button on the site is a bit of a lie ;)
[07:14] <thom> hurrah for fight club quotes
[07:14] <tseng> clee: hah whois me next
[07:14] <neighborlee> zack: trust me..i 'wanted' to trust FC
[07:14] <neighborlee> zack: VERY much so
[07:14] <neighborlee> zack: but I just dont
[07:14] <santiago> Kosai: I know it can work in linux because I used it in FC2.  It uses the orinoco_cs driver and it's something like Prism blah blah
[07:14] <clee> thom: Sticking feathers up your but does not make you a chicken.
[07:14] <dredg> clee: thats ^W and is fixable
[07:14] <clee> dredg: please tell me how.
[07:14] <jdub> Kamion: fight club should be a sacred text of the project ;)
[07:14] <clee> dredg: and yes, I know it's ^W
[07:14] <zack> heh, gentoo dev :)
[07:14] <dredg> you have to tell gnome to use emacs style keybindings or somesuch
[07:15] <clee> dredg: ... where do I do that?
[07:15] <dredg> its gconf configurable
[07:15] <santiago> Kosai: it only says with that command "product info: "TOSHIBA", "Wireless LAN Card", "Version 01.01", ""
[07:15] <dredg> erm
[07:15] <dredg> cantr remember offhand :-/
[07:15] <neighborlee> zack: Do you trust fc to your workstations..
[07:15] <DrPascal> floppy=thinkpad ... that did it. 
[07:15] <zack> neighborlee: i'm not gonna disagree. FC is a rough ride. RHEL is *much* nicer, but... yeah.
[07:15] <clee> meh, FC is nice when it works :)
[07:15] <neighborlee> clee: agreed
[07:15] <neighborlee> zack: true
[07:15] <zack> neighborlee: i'm in QA, so... i have different priorities :)
[07:16] <thom> neighborlee: any joy with that command?
[07:16] <clee> neighborlee: the graphical boot stuff is way better than the other things I've seen in other distros, thanks to using X instead of stupid framebuffer hacks
[07:16] <mxpxpod> Kamion: just so you know, I've got my users set up on debian to have their own group.. so I'm chown'ing all my files in my homedir
[07:16] <neighborlee> zack: ic
[07:16] <zack> it needs to be my workstation, so i can break it before you do
[07:16] <neighborlee> zack: but yeah overall Ifind FC innovation to ge a good thing for linux
[07:16] <zack> that said, at home i run debian and i'm almost a DD
[07:16] <mxpxpod> Kamion: the users group is left over from my gentoo install
[07:17] <neighborlee> zack: heheh gotcha
[07:17] <Kamion> mxpxpod: ok
[07:17] <neighborlee> zack: on both counts ;-)
[07:17] <zack> neighborlee: yeah. both FC and debian have their strengths and astoundingly foolish shortcomings
[07:17] <neighborlee> zack: heh indeed theydo
[07:17] <clee> that's why I run Slackware
[07:18] <zack>  /kick clee
[07:18] <dredg> clee: would you believe its a FAQ... http://www.xchat.org/faq/#q215
[07:18] <zack> ;)
[07:18] <clee> seriously, though, I end up switching between FC, Gentoo, Debian, and Slackware pretty frequently
[07:18] <clee> dredg: ha.
[07:18] <zack> you're just a distro whore ;)
[07:18] <thom> clee: ah, you're keen on the astoundingly foolish shortcomings then? ;-)
[07:18] <mxpxpod> did you guys hear that johnny ramone died?
[07:18] <tvon> Q: Does ^A work as 'select all' for folks in Firefox when in the address bar or form fields?
[07:19] <neighborlee> zack: well kinda what did it for me was that last (I think) corba error with an app...i'd 'up2date'd and bam got hit with a corba error...Iwas told to reboot toclear it which it seemed to..but i left me with a cold impression to be very uncertain to trust for a workstation ENV>.maybe I'm wrong but that was my take on  things..was I wrong do you think ...<<
[07:19] <mdz> morning
[07:19] <zack> tvon: nope
[07:19] <tvon> zack: Know the fix offhand? :)
[07:19] <neighborlee> clee: wow..I presume you have them running on separate partitions ? <G>
[07:19] <tvon> I thin its using emacs bindings or something 
[07:19] <zack> tvon: file bug, wait? :\
[07:20] <tvon> heh
[07:20] <zack> neighborlee: is this rawhide?
[07:20] <clee> neighborlee: yeah.
[07:20] <clee> thom: I thought you backgrounded yourself? :)
[07:20] <zack> tvon: ah you're right. turn them off and it should work.
[07:20] <buk> Hey.
[07:21] <buk> Ubuntu is based on Debian and therefor uses apt?
[07:21] <tvon> zack: The emacs bindings? I'm trying to figure out where to turn them off
[07:21] <thom> clee: i have a highly latent background process ;-)
[07:21] <clee> thom: heheheh.
[07:21] <thom> buk: yes
[07:21] <buk> thom: thx
[07:21] <clee> thom: no, see, the problem is that all of the distros that I use have *different* fatal flaws.
[07:22] <clee> thom: Debian rocks except that a lot of the developers are assholes and there are all sorts of political issues that prevent things from happening in a timely manner. eg XFree86 and/or KDE packages.
[07:22] <Mayday> i have a small problem, i installed ubuntu, but i didnt install grub nor lilo since i already have debian/testing on the box, and the installer told me to append root=/dev/hda4 to the kernel line, i did, but it cant mount the root filesystem, do i need to append something about an initrd?
[07:22] <thom> clee: nod
[07:23] <clee> thom: Gentoo has that problem licked for the most part - the packages are all bleeding-edge and happy, except that I fucking hate waiting six hours for things to compile.
[07:23] <zack> clee: what? kde packages? explain.
[07:23] <neighborlee> Kamion: ok...Idid the command and got this: ..unable  to correct problems: you have held packages....
[07:23] <Mayday> the kernel loads just fine
[07:23] <zack> tvon: looking, i can't find it either... i was here before...
[07:23] <neighborlee> clee: I prefer to IAR instead of CAW
[07:23] <clee> thom: Fedora isn't that bad from an interface standpoint, and some of the tools are ok, except I *hate* RPM with a passion and the bloat really bothers me
[07:23] <neighborlee> clee: heh
[07:24] <clee> and that leaves me with Slackware, which is awesome because it doesn't fuck with me.
[07:24] <Tybstar> clee: you work at RH, right?
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: Yep :)
[07:24] <whiprush> sweet. Ubuntu rocks with FreeNX.
[07:24] <dredg> fedora is just wrong. 560MB *minimal* install?
[07:24] <clee> dredg: people are working on it, or so I hear.
[07:24] <Tybstar> clee: then you've probably heard of Specifix and Conary, huh? :)
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: yep :)
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: Haven't tried their stuff out yet.
[07:24] <Tybstar> clee: you might like it, it's above and beyond RPM
[07:24] <clee> Tybstar: (actually, met up with those guys at OLS and had dinner with them. They're all really cool.)
[07:25] <zack> dredg: what's in the minimal that's so big, and why is ~600MB a problem?
[07:25] <clee> zack: 600M is ridiculous for a default install.
[07:25] <Tybstar> clee: ah, cool. yeah, i wish i could have been at OLS. i joined Specifix a bit too late, though. :)
[07:25] <clee> zack: And the idea that you need at least two CDs to install a base system is ludicrous.
[07:25] <clee> Tybstar: Oh, you work with them?
[07:25] <Tybstar> clee: yep
[07:25] <clee> Tybstar: nice.
[07:26] <clee> zack: last time I looked it was under 100M
[07:26] <clee> maybe it's up to 125 or so now.
[07:26] <Tybstar> clee: so i'm not really unbiased
[07:26] <clee> Tybstar: heheheheh.
[07:26] <neighborlee> thom: I did the command and got: you have held broken packages ;(
[07:26] <clee> anyway, so I bounce back to Slackware because it keeps working until I break it
[07:26] <clee> But it gets outdated pretty quickly and eventually new shiny things that I want to play with just don't work out of the box
[07:27] <zack> heh. outdated. don't they have xorg?
[07:27] <elmo_dc> Kamion: ?
[07:27] <neighborlee> clee: slack is okay minus nonexistant package management ..unless they are adopting swaret or slapt-get ?
[07:27] <clee> neighborlee: no idea.
[07:27] <Kamion> elmo_dc: yes?
[07:27] <clee> zack: heh. True. :)
[07:27] <clee> zack: although they only have Xorg 6.7, not 6.8
[07:27] <neighborlee> Kamion: did you have any idea for me ...I gotta do something one way or the other here sorry..;-)
[07:27] <elmo_dc> kamion: okay, so I added the relevant line to /b/g/device.map, reran "install grub on the hard disk" and "finish the installaion"
[07:27] <clee> but still, they're doing better than Debian. and ubuntu, for that matter. ;)
[07:27] <elmo_dc> kamion: but on boot I get
[07:28] <zack> clee: this install is 1GB with GNOME
[07:28] <elmo_dc> kamion: pivot_root: no such file or directory
[07:28] <Kamion> neighborlee: I'd try 'apt-get -f install' as a first instance
[07:28] <elmo_dc> kamion: /sbin/init: *mumble* couldn't open /dev/console
[07:28] <neighborlee> Kamion: yes I wondered..okay trying
[07:28] <clee> zack: That's not the point. That's not the *default* install. And it's definitely not the *minimum* install.
[07:29] <elmo_dc> kamion: any ideas?
[07:29] <zack> clee: ok. could have sworn it was default, but hey
[07:29] <clee> zack: what install are you talking about? an ubuntu install, or a debian one?
[07:29] <Kamion> elmo_dc: hm, you do have /dev/cciss/* device nodes don't you?
[07:29] <zack> clee: the one that worked (debian)
[07:29] <clee> zack: because last I checked, a 'default' debian install doesn't even include X, dude.
[07:29] <Kamion> elmo_dc: and what exactly did you add to /boot/grub/device.map?
[07:29] <dredg> theres a minimal option with fedora suggested for "routers" or "firewalls" but that clocks in at 1/2GB
[07:29] <neighborlee> Kamion: its saying nothing to do..0 upgraded, 0 newly installed and 0 to remove or upgraded :(
[07:29] <elmo_dc> kamion: blah, probably not
[07:30] <elmo_dc> kamion: (hd0) /dev/cciss/c0d0
[07:30] <zack> clee: *shrug* ok
[07:30] <dredg> i run a router with debian in under 64M 
[07:30] <Kamion> elmo_dc: you might need entries for the partitions too
[07:30] <zack> so a fedora minimal install has X? that's crap.
[07:30] <clee> yep.
[07:30] <clee> zack: hence, the bitching, about the bloat. :)
[07:30] <zack> maybe someone should file a bug.
[07:30] <zack> it's not like it can't change
[07:30] <elmo_dc> kamion: never have in the past
[07:30] <dredg> though rpm does have some crazy option to not install docs
[07:31] <dredg> rpm --biddleybop or somesuch
[07:31] <dredg> or it reads an env variable. meh. i cant remember :)
[07:31] <neighborlee> zack:clee: well Idont think anyone would suggest that rh/fc is about being minimalistic ..its not their target audience BUT I suppose a minimal install is a good thing to have yes <wink>
[07:31] <Mayday> what is the command to restart the installation process after the first reboot?
[07:32] <elmo_dc> kamion: e.g. on *.d.o which are DL380's
[07:32] <elmo_dc> kamion: btw, there's a good test box - gluck or newraff
[07:32] <Kamion> elmo_dc: read your debian-admin mail ;)
[07:32] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I tried, grub hung in D state
[07:32] <santiago> which component should I use if my wireless card is not detected?
[07:32] <zack> neighborlee: well it should be an option, i agree
[07:33] <santiago> sorry, component in bugzilla
[07:33] <neighborlee> Mayday: startx should get you in that or sudo gdm ( assuming your not having same problems I did)
[07:34] <Kamion> elmo_dc: suggests to me that the initrd doesn't have the cciss modules
[07:34] <neighborlee> Kamion: again which apt package did you think I might be missing ???
[07:34] <elmo_dc> kamion: wah, dude don't say that
[07:34] <Mayday> neighborlee: i havent installed any packages except the once in the base install
[07:35] <Kamion> neighborlee: aptitude install ~tubuntu-desktop
[07:35] <neighborlee> Kamion: no not that...that one errors out saying noting to do and that I have broken held packages
[07:35] <neighborlee> Kamion: the X package you earlier seemed to think I lacked possiby
[07:36] <Kamion> neighborlee: run just 'aptitude' then and sort it out in the UI; ubuntu-desktop is in the Tasks section at the bottom
[07:36] <Kamion> neighborlee: xbase-clients, but that's all part of the desktop
[07:36] <ggi> What's with the foxless Firefox icon, just out of interest?
[07:36] <neighborlee> ok thx man
[07:36] <elmo_dc> kamion: how do I check?
[07:36] <Kamion> elmo_dc: mount the initrd -o loop from the d-i environment
[07:36] <elmo_dc> kamion: (sorry, I'm a monolithic no-modules initrd-averse freak)
[07:36] <Kamion> poke in /lib/modules
[07:36] <elmo_dc> k
[07:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: around?
[07:39] <neighborlee> are some of the mirrors down atm?..in aptitude > tasks > selected "you" for update and its 'staling'..?
[07:39] <Kamion> elmo_dc: looking at mkinitrd it should be fine, though ...
[07:39] <mxpxpod> ok, I'm going to go install ubuntu!
[07:39] <neighborlee> it did this last time I tried it as well I believe..maybe one of your servers indeed is down
[07:39] <mxpxpod> wish me luck :)
[07:39] <Kamion> neighborlee: archive.ubuntulinux.org is really slow at the moment, release effect
[07:40] <tvon> zack: just filed https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1294
[07:40] <neighborlee> maybe that explains my 'went south' install :-)
[07:40] <clee> mxpxpod: good luck :)
[07:40] <neighborlee> Kamion: ahhhh I did wonder yup
[07:40] <neighborlee> Kamion: ok thx man
[07:40] <Mithrandir> neighborlee: if you point your sources.list to one of our mirrors, it might go faster.
[07:40] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes
[07:40] <Qerub> srbaker: Did you find out how Canonical is going to make money? :)
[07:40] <Mithrandir> neighborlee: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[07:41] <neighborlee> Mithrandir: ok thanks ;-00
[07:41] <Mithrandir> mdz: the OOO fix I did seemed to work; want an upload?
[07:41] <ficusplanet> Hey everyone.  I'm having trouble getting a DWL-520 Rev B (prism 2.5 chipset) working in Ubuntu with the wlan-ng drivers.  Anyone have any experience with this?
[07:41] <Mithrandir> (the mimelink name issue)
[07:41] <mdz> Mithrandir: not quite yet
[07:41] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, tell me when, then.
[07:43] <Qerub> Have you considered including ndiswrapper?
[07:43] <m_tthew> ficusplanet: are you absolutely sure it's intersil? d-link changed the chipset on that model without changing the model number
[07:43] <jdub> Qerub: we may include it in restricted or universe some time
[07:43] <Kamion> elmo_dc: hm, you might also try fixing the bogus sed in /var/lib/dpkg/info/base-installer.postinst before base-installer runs; it's line 623, fix / to # and add a # on the end
[07:43] <ficusplanet> Revision B is apparrently prism 2.5, yeah.  Even according to the hal device manager.
[07:43] <Kamion> elmo_dc: dunno if that actually makes a difference though
[07:44] <elmo_dc> kamion: cciss.ko is in drivers/block in /lib/modules on the initrd
[07:44] <elmo_dc> kamion: when does base-installer run? :)
[07:44] <Qerub> jdub: i know a guy who maintains a ndiswrapper-source package. maybe you could sponsor him? :)
[07:44] <Mithrandir> Kamion: after the first reboot.
[07:44] <mjg59> ficusplanet: It /should/ just work with the Orinoco driver, shouldn't it?
[07:45] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hm?
[07:45] <ficusplanet> Well, the orinoco_pci drivers were loaded.  However, I don't have a device.
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo_dc: base-installer is the "Installing the Ubuntu base system" step
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo_dc: huh, bizarre, should be working then
[07:45] <Kamion> elmo_dc: look at /linuxrc and/or /sbin/init, see if they're loading it
[07:46] <Kamion> elmo_dc: (I hate initrd debugging too, only had to do it once or twice)
[07:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sorry, s/kamion/elmo/
[07:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you're thinking of base-config then
[07:46] <Mithrandir> yes, I am.
[07:46] <Mithrandir> sillly me
[07:46] <Kamion> elmo_dc: the time on powerpc when cp -a was failing was particularly special
[07:46] <elmo_dc> kamion: spwecial
[07:47] <Kamion> hey, that's a good word
[07:47] <robster> heh
[07:48] <neighborlee> grrrr how do I change 'purge'  to 'install' in aptitude ?LOL
[07:49] <Kamion> neighborlee: press +
[07:49] <neighborlee> and yes xbase-clents indeed is not installed....no doubt entire desktop isn't either 
[07:49] <neighborlee> Kamion: OK thx
[07:50] <Kamion> you should be able to press + on the ubuntu-desktop line and it'll try everything
[07:50] <elmo_dc> kamion: is that base-installer typo there in preview?
[07:50] <Kamion> elmo_dc: yep
[07:50] <elmo_dc> ah
[07:50] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I fixed it ages ago in Debian but forgot about it
[07:50] <Kamion> elmo_dc: it's alleged to be a hack for woody so I hope it isn't actually a real problem
[07:51] <Kamion> 6 July, geez
[07:51] <Kamion> must've been just after we branched
[07:51] <elmo_dc> let's just resync everything with a .udeb.  what could possibly go wrong?
[07:52] <Kamion> elmo_dc: the changes in base-installer to install linux-image, for starters? :)
[07:53] <neighborlee> Mithrandir: is this server also having trouble ?.i'm getting errors from gzip during apt-get update 
[07:53] <elmo_dc> kamion: you're such a pessimist dude
[07:53] <elmo_dc> ;-)
[07:55] <mdz> neighborlee: are you the same person who posted to the list with such a problem?
[07:55] <Kamion> elmo_dc: only other thing I can think of is that maybe it shows up as sd0 in 2.6 or something?
[07:55] <jdub> hrm
[07:55] <jdub> is archive.ubuntu totally hammered again?
[07:56] <npmccallum> jdub: apparently so, I can't get on either
[07:56] <jdub> d'oh ;)
[07:57] <elmo_dc> kamion: no definitely not
[07:58] <elmo_dc> kamion: tho I did just notice, devfs calls it /dev/cciss/host0/target0/disc0/part1 or something.. is the host0 part normal?
[07:58] <Kamion> elmo_dc: dunno about cciss in particular, think it's normal for disks in general though
[07:58] <fabbione> elmo_dc: yes it should be
[07:58] <Kamion> elmo_dc: what does 'mapdevfs /dev/cciss/host0/target0/disc0/part1' say?
[07:58] <fabbione> host0 = controller0
[07:59] <fabbione> so that you can map more than one
[07:59] <elmo_dc> KVM's need cut'n'paste
[07:59] <Kamion> should work, we have a new enough libdebian-installer
[07:59] <LoneTech> time to attempt an install on my laptop.
[07:59] <elmo_dc> kamion: the right thing
[07:59] <Kamion> ok
[08:00] <Kamion> damn, I need to be sitting in front of this box
[08:00] <Kamion> elmo_dc: dinner's approaching here, I'm going to be gone soon
[08:00] <Qerub> fetman: =)
[08:00] <fetman> Qerub: !!!
[08:00] <elmo_dc> I'm trying a reinstall now with that base-installer change
[08:01] <fetman> :D
[08:01] <elmo_dc> I'll also burn a preview just in case
[08:01] <neighborlee> mdz: not sure iyts
[08:01] <fetman> Qerub: e rikingen hr inne? :)
[08:01] <neighborlee> mdz: NOT SURE been a loooooooooooong day -)
[08:02] <LoneTech> hey neighborlee (:
[08:02] <neighborlee> mdz: but I dont think so no..this is a fresh install just this am
[08:02] <Qerub> fetman: Don't think so.
[08:02] <neighborlee> mdz: so very doubtful it was me
[08:02] <fetman> Qerub: :(
[08:02] <fetman> Qerub: jag som skulle be om pngar
[08:02] <neighborlee> mdz: b right b...please wait
[08:03] <Qerub> fetman: You can try to sell a guided tour in your garden.
[08:03] <fetman> Qerub: ehok
[08:03] <Qerub> fetman: Anyway, this is really OT and someone will bug us soon :)
[08:03] <fetman> Qerub: ot? of track?
[08:03] <Qerub> fetman: off topic
[08:03] <fetman> so?
[08:03] <fetman> :)
[08:04] <fetman> Qerub: dom har inte +t hr ;)
[08:04] <fetman> >;)
[08:04] <Kamion> :utf8 off
[08:04] <Kamion> d'oh, damn screen
[08:04] <kl_> tvon, fixed upstream in moz/ffox/thunderbird, http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=257405
[08:04] <tvon> kl_: ah, cool
[08:04] <elmo_dc> +w5n 2
[08:05] <Qerub> Kamion: If the community does a good work, will Ubuntu provide KDE as an alternative DE in the installation phase?
[08:06] <Kamion> Qerub: I'm not sure what'll happen w.r.t. installation for things like Kubuntu
[08:06] <Chriffer> Yeah you should throw out all the simplicity that makes it great
[08:06] <Chriffer> add in a few more editers in the default install too
[08:06] <Kamion> Qerub: I think the plan is more to have the KDE-interested guys ship a separate CD
[08:06] <Qerub> Kamion: Does something named Kubuntu exist or are you just making fun of me? :)
[08:06] <Chriffer> Though I guess 1 choice isnt bad
[08:07] <Qerub> Kamion: Sounds better, yes.
[08:07] <Kamion> Qerub: not yet, we named it a while back anyway ;)
[08:07] <kagou> hi
[08:07] <neighborlee> mdz: b
[08:07] <mdz> neighborlee: is it working better for you now?
[08:07] <neighborlee> mdz: nope
[08:07] <Qerub> Kamion: Is Kubuntu something Canonical staff will do? :)
[08:08] <neighborlee> mdz: as Isaid earlier..i'm getting gzip eror during apt-get update
[08:08] <Kamion> Qerub: unlikely; we'll be creating infrastructure for that sort of thing in general, but KDE support is expected to be community-provided
[08:08] <neighborlee> mdz: using the altenate mirror given by Mith*
[08:09] <mdz> neighborlee: oh
[08:09] <mdz> neighborlee: try using archive.ubuntu.com, then
[08:09] <Qerub> Kamion: Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.
[08:09] <neighborlee> mdz: yeahi'm going to have to revert there it would seem
[08:09] <Qerub> Kamion: Ubuntu's "snapshots" of Debian is pretty much what the Debian Desktop Distribution is doing/going to do.
[08:09] <tvon> One destkop is hard enough for a company to support (irt to kde support in the installer)
[08:10] <Kamion> elmo_dc: so, is CCISS an IDE thing?
[08:10] <Kamion> Qerub: sort of the same angle but a different approach
[08:10] <golgoth> plop
[08:10] <elmo_dc> kamion: neither, it's in own driver - you can compile a kernel without IDE or SCSI support and as long as you have CCISS, it'll boot and work
[08:10] <defendguin> i must say that i am very disappointed the the bootloader did not fin my other linux installs on this box
[08:11] <defendguin> and now i have no way to get to them
[08:11] <Qerub> Kamion: Hows is the approach different? Except the focus on some selected packages.
[08:11] <Kamion> defendguin: I'd like details of that in a bug report, it's supposed to
[08:12] <Kamion> defendguin: grub is flexible enough that you should be able to type in the details at its prompt and have it work, so it shouldn't be a disaster
[08:12] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I mean, is it on the IDE bus?
[08:12] <neighborlee> OK guys trying to 'startx' is giving me: usr/bin/X11/X..no such file or DIR
[08:12] <neighborlee> and I dont recall what package its part of 
[08:12] <neighborlee> i'd think xfree86-common?
[08:13] <neighborlee> or base
[08:13] <defendguin> Kamion, well you see i have 3 hard drives on this box i tried to install this on the 3rd hard drive and when it asked for when it was to install the boot loader i told it the MBR which is on the master primary ide if i am correct
[08:13] <azeem> neighborlee: does dpkg --configure -a say anything?
[08:13] <mdz> neighborlee: I saw you were saying earlier that you were missing many packages; did you do a custom install or something?
[08:13] <Dr_Willis> neighborlee,  you just installed X?
[08:13] <Kamion> defendguin: what I need is (a) what the other operating systems are (b) what 'os-prober' says when you run it at the command prompt from alt-f2 in the installer
[08:13] <mdz> neighborlee: all of that is installed by default unless you choose a custom install
[08:14] <Kamion> defendguin: like I say, though, a bugzilla report will stop me forgetting about it, and I'm the guy who needs to fix it :)
[08:14] <azeem> mdz: or if the partition flows over, like in my case
[08:14] <neighborlee> Dr_Willis: I am totally lost at thispoint ..no idea whats installed to tell yu the truthLOL
[08:14] <Dr_Willis> neighborlee,  if you just installed X. you need to logout/backin to get your PATH set right
[08:14] <neighborlee> mdz: nope..I chose no custom anything except manual partition
[08:14] <tseng> jdub: ping
[08:14] <azeem> neighborlee: so how big is your partition?
[08:14] <elmo_dc> Kamion: don't know, sorry
[08:14] <neighborlee> azeem: 65 GB
[08:15] <azeem> okie then =)
[08:15] <neighborlee> Dr_Willis: ok ill try thgat
[08:15] <defendguin> well the other linux install is a fedora core 2 install and its on the primary master drive
[08:15] <sjoerd> hi, i've signed for receiving some nice pressed cd's :) But what architecture are they going to be (x86?)
[08:15] <Kamion> elmo_dc: probably not important
[08:15] <Kamion> sjoerd: i386
[08:15] <neighborlee> sudo reboot'ing LOL
[08:15] <neighborlee> wish < luck <G>
[08:15] <sjoerd> Kamion: is it possible to get some ppc ones too ?
[08:15] <defendguin> Kamion, id be happy to file a bugzilla report as soon as i have fixed my situation
[08:15] <Kamion> elmo_dc: I don't see anything too important in mkinitrd diffs
[08:16] <Kamion>   * Joey Hess
[08:16] <Kamion>     - It's actually allowed and common for /etc/lsb-release to not include a
[08:16] <Kamion>       DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION or DISTRIB_CODENAME, so don't call such distros
[08:16] <Kamion>       "Unknown semi-LSB-compliant Linux distribution", just skip to the next
[08:16] <Kamion>       test. This affected FC2.
[08:16] <magbb> Excuse me, I'm a bit of a newbe, to be honest. I like the distribution, but what I would want is proper multimedia support. How do I install support for DVD and Windows Media Audio? (Xine, mplayer, etc.)
[08:16] <Kamion> defendguin: that might be it

[08:17] <Qerub> magbb: A very unoffical answer: You could try using Marillat's Debian repository.
[08:17] <neighborlee> ok I am getting one ODD error at boottime..'can not find ext3 FS on hdb3'..hdb3 is where / is which is my 65GB partition for ubuntu..why is is looking for ext3 when I clearly formatted for reiserfs ? <GH>
[08:18] <neighborlee> also im geting 'yenta_socket' failing at boot...FYI...whatever the hell yenta is LOL!!!
[08:18] <jdub> tseng: pong
[08:18] <elmo_dc> kamion: base-installer fix didn't help
[08:18] <Chriffer> Does anyone else think a postscript reader stands out in such a streamlined menu system?
[08:18] <tseng> jdub: can i msg you for a minute or so?
[08:18] <jdub> Chriffer: yeah ;)
[08:18] <jdub> tseng: sure
[08:18] <rcaskey_> anyone here a kerberos whiz?
[08:18] <defendguin> Kamion, i am also a but upset that it did not detect my extra drive where i have all my music :(
[08:18] <jdub> Chriffer: one of the things we're thinking of doing is hiding all the 'document viewer' type menu icons
[08:19] <neighborlee> OK guys anyone feel free to jump onon this one LOL...just rebooted and I stil  get no such file orDIR on /usr/bin/X11/X :(
[08:19] <Qerub> neighborlee: yenta is some cardbus (or pcmcia?) stuff
[08:20] <Chriffer> yes yenta is a cardbus related
[08:20] <ficusplanet> Does anyone know how I can change the GTK sorting order from A, B, C, a, b, c to A a, B b, C c/
[08:20] <ficusplanet> ?
[08:20] <Qerub> ficusplanet: I think your locale affects that.
[08:20] <ficusplanet> Oh, OK.
[08:21] <neighborlee> Qerub: oh no wonder then.I dont have a laptop here  <G>
[08:22] <Chriffer> Is there supposed to be a way to remove servers from the nautilus "Network" section? I added a few that don't work when trying to get samba working, but I can't find anything that appears to remove them
[08:22] <Qerub> ficusplanet: I'm not sure of what part of your locale that decides sorting though. It could be LC_CTYPE...
[08:22] <jdub> Chriffer: known bug
[08:22] <Qerub> neighborlee: It might be cardmgr or something loading it.
[08:22] <kl_> hm, LC_COLLATE ?
[08:23] <ficusplanet> Qerub: Thanks.
[08:23] <Qerub> ficusplanet: Yes, LC_COLLATE as kl_ said.
[08:23] <whiprush> whoever decided to not use Xprint for firefox, you have my thanks.
[08:24] <neighborlee> Qerub: yeah no prb..at this point its theleast of my worries <G>
[08:24] <Qerub> ficusplanet: I'm not using Ubuntu but adding LC_COLLATE=something to /etc/environment will probably do the trick.
[08:25] <magbb> Has there yet come any updates to the Ubuntu distribution?
[08:25] <neighborlee> OK anyone..still after running aptitude and selecting the desktop > xbase-clients > 'g'..it demands the ubuntu cd which i insert in cdrom drive..it says setting up X..but 'startx' still says no such file or dir from : /usr/bin/X11/X ;(sigh..any idea what next ???
[08:25] <LoneTech> neighborlee: you'd want an X server for that.
[08:25] <Qerub> neighborlee: xserver-xfree86?
[08:26] <neighborlee> LoneTech: yes but doesn't it do that automagic due to dependency checks ?
[08:26] <LoneTech> nope
[08:26] <neighborlee> hmm I thought for sure it said it did
[08:26] <neighborlee> sigh
[08:26] <LoneTech> not fonts either, so make sure you get at least xfonts-base.
[08:26] <Tomcat_> Now any ideas about /dev/dsp not working while /dev/dsp1 is?
[08:26] <neighborlee> ok ill try the xserver
[08:26] <neighborlee> LoneTech: ok
[08:26] <Qerub> neighborlee: Since you might want to show the apps on a remote xserver :)
[08:26] <Tomcat_> I'm trying to figure it out at the moment, but I have no idea what creates /dev/dsp
[08:26] <LoneTech> it's possible to run an X server with fonts and clients over network, etc, so there aren't much in the way of dependencies.
[08:27] <mdz> Kamion: have you seen Subject: Re: install instructions on the -users list?
[08:28] <mdz> Kamion: if you can review the text and make any necessary corrections, lu can integrate it
[08:29] <j^> just installed ubuntu on an asus p800 delux, and the network card looked ok during the installer, but after rebooting its gone.
[08:29] <schweeb> okay, quick question... shouldn't X be trying to touch char-major-195 when it's loading to load the nvidia driver?  I can't get the nvidia driver to autoload using a depmod alias
[08:29] <kagou> which scripts launch pmount ?
[08:29] <j^> its a 3Com 3c940 
[08:29] <bryan_> ok, so I just installed ubuntu, but there's a broken dependency
[08:29] <pitti> mdz: Hi! Can you please approve #1276? Or do you want to put gnutls11 in Supported in the next time? Then I can build lynx against gnutls11 right away
[08:29] <elmo_dc> kamion: any other ideas, anything useful I can do? if it's going to be hard to debug remotely, I'll need to use some non-warty media - but I can leave one unused if you need something to test with?
[08:29] <j^> whats next?
[08:30] <mxpxpod> gnome-themes depends on gtk2-engines-smooth, which doesn't have an install candidate
[08:30] <mdz> mxpxpod: looking into it now
[08:30] <mxpxpod> mdz: thanks
[08:31] <j^> a and the matrox G650 dual did not work automaticly. i had to edit /etc/X11/XF86Config back to vesa since mga seames to be the wrong choise 
[08:31] <mxpxpod> other than that, my install went off w/o a hitch :)
[08:31] <jdub> worked okay with i386
[08:31] <mdz> j^: is your NIC a PCI card?
[08:31] <Chriffer> I'm gonna go and play with the installer again
[08:31] <jdub> might not be built on ppc yet
[08:31] <tubamann> Wow, that's alot of users
[08:31] <tubamann> :)
[08:31] <Chriffer> It's so neat to play with
[08:31] <mdz> kagou: gnome-volume-manager
[08:32] <j^> mdz no its onboard on the asus P800 delux
[08:32] <kagou> thanks mdz
[08:32] <seb128> mxpxpod: what version of gtk2-engines-* do you have ?
[08:32] <elmo_dc> jdub: britney reckons it's broken for everyone
[08:33] <jdub> britney is a blonde
[08:33] <maswan> Hmm.. Just how big is the cdimage part?
[08:33] <elmo_dc> jdub: that may  be, but she's right
[08:33] <mdz> lamont: ping?
[08:34] <mxpxpod> seb128: 2.8.0-ubuntu2
[08:34] <mdz> j^: can you run lspci and see if it shows up?
[08:34] <spiv> 'apt-cache show gtk2-engines-smooth' here suggests that it's in universe...
[08:34] <mdz> seb128: just filed #1296
[08:34] <mxpxpod> seb128: sorry... -0ubuntu2
[08:34] <XTaran> Hi.
[08:34] <elmo_dc> jdub/seb128: gtk2-engines-smooth is in universe
[08:34] <j^> mdz it shows up as 3c940 10/100/1000Base-T
[08:34] <mdz> elmo_dc: it needs to be moved into main
[08:34] <elmo_dc> mdz: you think?
[08:34] <mxpxpod> what's the difference between main and universe?
[08:34] <seb128> elmo_dc: it's a depend of a warty package, should be in warty, right ?
[08:34] <jdub> elmo_dc: ahr
[08:35] <mdz> seb128: that does not happen automatically
[08:35] <neighborlee> OK almost there LOL..one problem remains:: i can verybriefly see the gnome 2.8 logo start..for a split second..thenit errors out to console sAying: could not init font path element unix:/7100, removing from list!...what am I  lacking now ? ;-))
[08:35] <seb128> mdz: ok, that's the problem
[08:35] <mdz> elmo_dc: are you fixing it?
[08:36] <LoneTech> neighborlee: that shouldn't be the error, that's just that you're not using a font server. other font path entries should work. check your .xsession-errors or something..
[08:37] <defendguin> i have a second hard drive where i have stored all of my music is there an easy way to get that added to my fstab?
[08:37] <elmo_dc> MDZ: YES
[08:37] <bmsleight> Hello All
[08:37] <bmsleight> alextreme: Might have known you to be here :)
[08:37] <j^> mdz http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/history/69418
[08:38] <neighborlee> LoneTech: do you recall what DIR its in ?..its not here in /etc/X11 and Iflat dont recall damn
[08:38] <j^> mdz another thread about the p800/3940 http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.2/1556.html
[08:39] <LoneTech> neighborlee: home dir
[08:39] <mdz> elmo_dc: thank you
[08:39] <bmsleight> A couple of quick question on ubuntu. I may be being a bit simple but I could not find the LiveCD version of ubuntu. The documentation refers to it but I can find the iso.
[08:39] <mdz> j^: can you file a bug in bugzilla?
[08:39] <mxpxpod> mdz: how long will it take to fix the smooth dep bug?
[08:39] <LoneTech> first install attempt: apparently there's no rdev set on network install kernel. attempting with root=/dev/ram
[08:39] <elmo_dc> fixed
[08:40] <mdz> mxpxpod: -5 seconds
[08:40] <LoneTech> curious, no init found.
[08:40] <mxpxpod> mdz: cool!
[08:40] <bmsleight> This is a dead linke - http://ftp.no-name-yet.com/cdimage/morphix/20040910/wartylive-v2.iso
[08:41] <mdz> bmsleight: on which page is that link?
[08:41] <mdz> bmsleight: the live CD is currently at http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-live/
[08:41] <mxpxpod> hehe, 3m2s left on my ubuntu install download :)
[08:41] <mdz> bmsleight: however, it has some known bugs
[08:41] <neighborlee> sigh...did I miss a install option to provide a working gnome desktop during intsall ? :(
[08:41] <clee> mxpxpod: :)
[08:41] <mxpxpod> it's nice to have a multiple T3 connection
[08:41] <clee> mxpxpod: heheheheh
[08:42] <clee> mxpxpod: using the torrent?
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: the default is to provide a working gnome desktop
[08:42] <defendguin> neighborlee, LMFAO
[08:42] <neighborlee> mdz: well its borked then ;(
[08:42] <j^> mdz not that the bugzilla site would come up if i search for bugzilla or bug on the website
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: how big is the partition on which you installed?
[08:42] <neighborlee> mdz: 65GB
[08:42] <mdz> j^: http://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/
[08:42] <mxpxpod> clee: no no... I have ubuntu installed... I'm just waiting on all the packages for ubuntu-desktop
[08:42] <XTaran> Hmmm, I read morphix in that URL. What has Ubuntu to do with morphix? *beingcurious*
[08:42] <LoneTech> that initrd is 11MB large, kernel configured for 8MB or something. I think a ramsize option is needed.
[08:42] <clee> mxpxpod: oh, ok
[08:42] <clee> mxpxpod: wow, that was fast
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: email a copy of /var/log/base-config.log to the ubuntu-users mailing list
[08:42] <bmsleight> mdz: Thanks.
[08:42] <jdub> XTaran: our live cd is morphix based, and alex works with us :)
[08:42] <neighborlee> mdz: unless I missed something and it tried to install to  a smaller one dunno..shrug
[08:42] <mdz> neighborlee: it sounds like something went wrong; better to find out what that was than to try to patch it up by hand
[08:43] <neighborlee> mdz: sorr but im not familiar much with non-X emailing..how do I do this?
[08:44] <whiprush> cool cool, mono packages for warty.
[08:44] <jdub> with muine! :)
[08:44] <XTaran> jdub: ic, thx.
[08:44] <defendguin> :((
[08:44] <jdub> tseng: radness :)
[08:44] <whiprush> tseng: you rock
[08:45] <mxpxpod> clee: yeah, it's going at 319kB/s
[08:45] <jdub> hmm
[08:45] <clee> mxpxpod: right on.
[08:45] <defendguin> i was expecting to see my other hard drives in "Computer" 
[08:45] <LoneTech> I got the installer started. module warnings though, that's concerning.
[08:45] <clee> mxpxpod: my cable internet at home gets faster than that, but it's still nice :)
[08:45] <bmsleight> Another question if you don't mind. I want to add ubuntu along side my existing debian. I tried that installer, but I am unable to skip the partitioning section and install base ubuntu. Any idea how I can use the installer but not the partitioner (I have a spare partition already)
[08:45] <neighborlee> i hear c# is easier coding path but  gosh its hardly a standard and so much of what I do ( project libs) depend on c++....unless mono can on the fly convert it all over...but do we really know that c# will always remain OS ?..isn't that a slight uncetainty or not...
[08:46] <XTaran> Anyone speaking German here?
[08:46] <mxpxpod> clee: I downloaded a 650 MB about a week ago and it took like 4 minutes (IIRC)
[08:46] <clee> mxpxpod: heh :)
[08:46] <clee> mxpxpod: how long did the iso take, using bittorrent?
[08:46] <mxpxpod> clee: there are a bunch of virii going around the office right now, so that doesn't help my speeds :)
[08:46] <mxpxpod> clee: can't remember
[08:46] <clee> mxpxpod: heh, fair enough
[08:46] <m_tthew> clee: I was seeing > 300KBs on the iso torrent yesterday
[08:47] <clee> m_tthew: I was seeing 400+ on it myself
[08:47] <mxpxpod> ok, what's laptop-detect?
[08:47] <clee> m_tthew: which is insane since the connection at redhat has never cracked 300 for me before
[08:47] <defendguin> crap the device manager crashed
[08:47] <fabbione> mxpxpod: a little script that should detect if you are running on a laptop or not
[08:47] <mxpxpod> fabbione: that's it?
[08:47] <fabbione> mxpxpod: yes.
[08:47] <maswan> clee: I've seen the debian one do about 1.5-2MB/s myself
[08:47] <clee> maswan: neat.
[08:48] <fabbione> it is used in several bits to configure properly certain packages
[08:48] <mxpxpod> fabbione: ah, ok
[08:48] <fabbione> mxpxpod: like enabling antialiasing in fonts
[08:48] <LoneTech> er, perhaps the install should mention what protocol it expects to talk to the mirror by? I was planning on NFS, but this installer just doesn't say..
[08:48] <fabbione> mxpxpod: it saves a few questions to the user at install time
[08:48] <kl_> XTaran, i do
[08:49] <mxpxpod> ok, why does ubuntu use pbbuttonsd as the default rather than pmud?
[08:49] <LoneTech> http, proceeding.
[08:50] <XTaran> kl_: Some more publicity for Ubuntu in German: http://www.symlink.ch/article.pl?sid=04/09/16/1539251
[08:51] <kl_> =]  should show up in my rss in 10 minutes
[08:51] <kl_> rss reader*
[08:51] <LoneTech> does ubuntu require LVM?
[08:51] <XTaran> kl_: gleom.de also wrote something: http://www.golem.de/0409/33601.html
[08:51] <fabbione> LoneTech: no. Ubuntu supports install on LVM
[08:51] <kl_> XTaran, yeah, i read golem's feed too ;)
[08:51] <mxpxpod> jdub: can you answer that? why pbbuttonsd instead of pmud?
[08:52] <LoneTech> I think I've wound up with a kernel that doesn't support IDE hard drives.
[08:53] <XTaran> kl_: :)
[08:53] <LoneTech> straight from the warty iso, install/netboot
[08:53] <fabbione> LoneTech: that sounds pretty strange
[08:54] <fabbione> LoneTech: which motherboard are you using? are they SATA disks?
[08:54] <XTaran> Is it already countable, how the /. posting pushed the user base?
[08:54] <LoneTech> MediaGXm CPU, CS5530 support chip. that's plain IDE on PCI, Cyrix 5530 driver helps.
[08:55] <LoneTech> drive is a 2.5" ATA
[08:55] <jdub> mxpxpod: pmud is not really a living project
[08:55] <jdub> mxpxpod: so we chose to ship pbbuttonsd
[08:55] <jdub> easier to support and so on
[08:55] <fabbione> LoneTech: hmmmmm
[08:55] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok, that's cool
[08:55] <mxpxpod> jdub: as long as it comes with sane defaults
[08:56] <mxpxpod> jdub: my experience with it sucks (but I was using it on gentoo... so go figure)
[08:56] <LoneTech> dmesg doesn't mention IDE at all
[08:56] <j^> mdz https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1297
[08:57] <nictuku> congrats for ubuntu!
[08:57] <jdub> mxpxpod: we sanified them a bit
[08:57] <mxpxpod> jdub: good
[08:57] <fabbione> LoneTech: i wonder if that chipset is supported.. i will have to check on that
[08:57] <mxpxpod> what about mono on ppc?
[08:58] <LoneTech> I've installed with and without 5530 support before. most recently the machine ran gentoo with a 2.6.8.1 kernel.
[08:58] <LoneTech> 2.6.8.1 does have the 5530 support as an option, but it worked to install long before that was listed
[08:59] <nictuku> does ubuntu ships with postfix?
[08:59] <fabbione> LoneTech: please file a bug and assign it to debian-installer
[08:59] <jdub> nictuku: by default!
[08:59] <fabbione> LoneTech: we will figure it out with the kernel guys :-)
[08:59] <XTaran> jdub: Fine!
[09:00] <XTaran> jdub: It sounds better from hour to hour. ;-)
[09:00] <jdub> heh
[09:00] <fabbione> LoneTech: if you can please add info from lspci -v (if you happen to have the old linux installation there
[09:00] <LoneTech> okay, will do.
[09:00] <nictuku> In your site, you say it's only one cd, and thousands others online. Those are, I suppose, Debian official ones, right? So will you guys provide security updates to only the Ubuntu packages...
[09:01] <j^> do external dvd burners (firewire) work with 2.6.8.1? they did have some problems with the new scsi/burner stuff added in  2.6.8 and cdrecord in debian
[09:01] <jdub> nictuku: no, those are from our repositories too
[09:01] <aethyr> hm, gthumb doesn't detect my digital camera
[09:01] <nictuku> So, from what Debian distro will those "extra" packages come?
[09:01] <LoneTech> is it documented that a netboot install requires "ramdisk_size=16384 root=/dev/ram", btw? I guess less than 16 works, but the default doesn't.
[09:01] <jdub> nictuku: but we only do support for our 'main' ones, not our 'universe' ones
[09:01] <nictuku> hmm nice. And with updates assured for 18 months from the date of release, to all software?
[09:01] <jdub> aethyr: usb-storage?
[09:01] <nictuku> ah ok!
[09:01] <whiprush> aethyr: is it a usb storage cam?
[09:02] <aethyr> haha, nevermind
[09:02] <aethyr> it wasn't plugged into my computer
[09:02] <mxpxpod> lol
[09:02] <aethyr> well, I only have 2 usb ports
[09:02] <aethyr> so I have to switch sometimes
[09:02] <aethyr> I thought I had my camera still plugged in
[09:04] <aethyr> ok, now it's giving me a real error
[09:04] <aethyr> An error occurred in the io-library ('Could not claim the USB device'): Could not claim interface 0 (Operation not permitted). Make sure no other program or kernel module (e.g. dc2xx or stv680) is using the device and you have read/write access to the device.
[09:04] <mdz> j^: thanks
[09:04] <aethyr> on the plus side, gthumb ran automatically when I plugged it in
[09:04] <mdz> j^: this is an i386 system?
[09:05] <mxpxpod> ok, why is apmd running on a ppc system?
[09:05] <mxpxpod> s/running/installed/
[09:05] <nictuku> will you guys establish business partnerships for other Ind. Support Vendors, specially in other countries?
[09:05] <LoneTech> there is apm emulation among the power management drivers.. but apmd shouldn't be needed.
[09:06] <neighborlee> where is .xsession-errors
[09:06] <aethyr> what's weirder, is that if I go through nautilus, I acn see all the pictures on my camera...
[09:06] <LoneTech> neighborlee: ordinarily, in your home directory.
[09:06] <schweeb> okay guys, I have a feature suggestion/request... since ubuntu uses udev, X can't autoload the nvidia driver when it hits char-major-195, so, when setting up the nvidia drivers, one of 2 things must happen: a script must create the nvidia dev nodes, or the module must be loaded with /etc/modules
[09:06] <mxpxpod> LoneTech: that's what I thought... I'll have to uninstall it
[09:06] <neighborlee> nm
[09:06] <schweeb> the nvidia drivers don't properly support sysfs supposedly, so udev can't make the nodes for you
[09:07] <neighborlee> LoneTech: yeah indeed nm..I found it..I didn't think it was in $HOME but I checked thinking itmight be and voila LOL
[09:07] <neighborlee> sigh
[09:08] <tritium> schweeb, isn't there a hotplug setting in /etc/default/hotplug for PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY?
[09:08] <schweeb> tritium: hrm, didn't check there... lemme look...
[09:08] <schweeb> ah yes
[09:08] <suburbanite_fury> Will it be possible to perpetually upgrade Ubuntu releases, just like one can upgrade Debian 3.0 to 3.1?
[09:09] <schweeb> IGNORE_PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY=true
[09:09] <LoneTech> er, right.. gentoo's lspci, for some reason, doesn't look up names. not even for classes. that's not too helpful..
[09:09] <tritium> schweeb, mine is set to false
[09:09] <neighborlee> LoneTech: ok it says no fonts found ...?
[09:09] <schweeb> tritium: did you set it that way manually?
[09:09] <tritium> yes
[09:09] <LoneTech> neighborlee: well, you want xfonts-base and probably {75,100}dpi and scalable and perhaps a few more.
[09:09] <schweeb> shouldn't have to do that IMO
[09:11] <neighborlee> LoneTech: alldone except for scalable fonts
[09:11] <tritium> schweeb, that was for a sid box, not ubuntu
[09:11] <neighborlee> LoneTech: I saw that but didn't install it thinkin xbase-fonts was eougfh
[09:11] <schweeb> oh good, a dpkg-reconfigure hotplug will set it
[09:12] <tritium> oh yeah
[09:12] <schweeb> needs to go in the FAQ then
[09:12] <LoneTech> neighborlee: dunno what gnome expects, tho.
[09:12] <neighborlee> LoneTech: did I miss something during install..so the install doesn't assume gnome and its components to be installed and ready for startx ? :(
[09:12] <LoneTech> ah, got gentoo lspci to show names.
[09:12] <j^> oh and the keyboard was not set to german keyboard, i selected english interface/german keyboard. now my pwd did not work after switching it in the gnome keyboard prefs :/
[09:12] <whiprush> has someone mentioned interest in a ubuntu web forum?
[09:12] <LoneTech> neighborlee: I have no idea.
[09:13] <schweeb> whiprush: they were discussing it a bit last night
[09:13] <sneef> ?
[09:14] <mxpxpod> umm, when do I configure X?
[09:15] <nictuku> I propose the creation of a ubuntu-isp or ubuntu-servers to the non-desktop users.
[09:15] <nictuku> s/proposesuggest/
[09:15] <nictuku> argh
[09:16] <XTaran> One more question: For which hardware platforms is Ubuntu? Just x86? Haven't found any note on the FAQ, neither on the website no in the wiki.
[09:16] <spiv> mxpxpod: You don't, usually, it autodetects.
[09:16] <matthewjs> when i boot up, i get a arror about the bois telling me to set noboispnp, where do i set this?
[09:16] <suburbanite_fury> XTaran: x86, amd64, ppc
[09:16] <neighborlee> does anyone know then..does the ubuntu install supposed to prompt for a full working gnome desktop??..just wondering cause plopping me down to a console ...startx should have just 'worked'....???
[09:16] <XTaran> suburbanite_fury: Thx.
[09:16] <XTaran> suburbanite_fury: Although I hoped for Sparc32. :)
[09:17] <spiv> neighborlee: It should've setup gdm by default, in fact.
[09:17] <suburbanite_fury> Will it be possible to perpetually upgrade Ubuntu releases, just like one can upgrade Debian 3.0 to 3.1?
[09:17] <XTaran> suburbanite_fury: Although GNOME is probably no good idea with my 48 MR RAM Sparc 4. :)
[09:17] <nictuku> suburanite, I would like to know that too.
[09:17] <man0_> hi
[09:17] <XTaran> AOL. ;-)
[09:17] <LoneTech> suburbanite_fury: surely possible, but I wonder if it'll be obvious in the interface. it isn't in xandros.
[09:18] <whiprush> wow, the amount of people in here has like, quadrupled.
[09:18] <man0_> is ubuntu stable on ppc?
[09:18] <suburbanite_fury> LoneTech: The reason I ask is because in Fedora it's basically not supported to upgrade with apt/yum; they recommend a complete reinstall.
[09:19] <LoneTech> suburbanite_fury: yeah, but that isn't debian based. it has basically no concept of upgrading configurations.
[09:19] <sabdfl> suburbanite_fury: yes, we'll support constant upgrades from version to version
[09:19] <LoneTech> fabbione: I'm not getting the bugzilla account mail, apparently. I have the lspci and dmesg outputs from my working 2.6.8.1/gentoo if you want those.
[09:19] <suburbanite_fury> sabdfl: Thanks -- very cool.
[09:20] <neighborlee> spiv: odd..did your install do it okay then?
[09:20] <sabdfl> suburbanite_fury: also, we can open up a port to another architecture if we have a core team that will take responsibility for keeping it up to date and secure post-release
[09:20] <sabdfl> man0_: yes
[09:20] <neighborlee> okay im geting a bit further..installing scallable fongts at least got me into X but it complained about xscreensaver so i'm installng that now
[09:21] <sabdfl> neighborlee: is someone helping you?
[09:21] <man0_> sabdfl, cause i fond nothing about the ppc port
[09:21] <man0_> fond/found
[09:21] <spiv> neighborlee: Yep, no brainer.  Did your install give any errors or something?  It sounds like it didn't install all the packages or something odd.
[09:21] <sabdfl> man0_: the cd's are on the mirrors
[09:21] <sabdfl> quite a few of the teams have ibooks and powerbooks
[09:21] <sabdfl> so it works well on ppc
[09:21] <michelin> hi guys
[09:21] <ish> Can I view a list of packages online?  And is there an ftp install option?
[09:21] <spiv> neighborlee: Fonts and xscreensaver and so forth should all be pulled in by installing the "ubuntu-desktop" task.
[09:22] <michelin> installing Ubuntu x86 right now.. sweet
[09:22] <michelin> ish, on the mirror there's a file for each distro that has the package list
[09:22] <sabdfl> ish: single cd install, after that use aptitude or synaptic
[09:22] <elmo_dc> kamion: okay, got a bit further, I think the problem is in 2.6, it's /dev/cciss/host0/target0 not /dev/cciss/c0d0 - at least that's what the kernel is talking about on boot, if I remove 'quiet'
[09:22] <neighborlee> spiv: yes near end it errored out but i'm not sure if it couldn;t read from the servers because they were 'busy
[09:22] <npmccallum> ish: basically every package from debian, some are supported (bugfixes, security, etc), others are not
[09:22] <elmo_dc> neighborlee: were you one of the ones having problems with te ubuntu-desktop task?  if so, try again, the problem package has been fixed
[09:22] <ish> sabdfl: I assume apt-get as well?
[09:22] <elmo_dc> ish: sure
[09:22] <michelin> ehm people, I tried to reuse my /home and the installer kept saying there's an error with it and won't continue
[09:22] <sabdfl> ish: yes of course :-)
[09:22] <neighborlee> spic: or if my cd was bad..even thoughI doubt that since it was a BT dowload
[09:23] <ish> Just looking for fvwm :)
[09:23] <neighborlee> spic: I should prob. try again :(...
[09:23] <michelin> I checked on vt4 and it said ext3 mounted successfully in ordered mode
[09:23] <neighborlee> spiv: although atm i'm further but its like nursing a baby back to health LOL
[09:23] <spiv> neighborlee: Just try installing ubuntu-desktop again.
[09:23] <michelin> I just chose not to use it at install time.. weird though. any idea why?
[09:23] <neighborlee> spiv: ok
[09:23] <ish> I think ubuntu is what I've been waiting for.
[09:23] <LoneTech> BT only ensures that the transfer was okay, not that the original file worked.
[09:23] <m_tthew> ish: you and me both
[09:24] <neighborlee> spiv: my destkop is up but it stopped after displaing the 'second icon' on bottom of gnome 2.8 logo....all I have now is a blank light blue screen
[09:24] <neighborlee> spiv: can you give me please once more that command..I lost it when I left channel earlier
[09:24] <spiv> neighborlee: I'm not sure what command you're referring to...
[09:25] <neighborlee> spiv: oh ok...well..how do I do it from aptitude then..
[09:25] <j^> mdz it works with the sk98lin kernel module
[09:25] <spiv> neighborlee: Look under "tasks" in aptitude.
[09:26] <neighborlee> nm I got it
[09:26] <neighborlee> here goes
[09:26] <neighborlee> yeah I could reinstall but the linux leet'er in me wants to 'fix' it LOL!!!!
[09:27] <neighborlee> or should I say the handiman in me wants to 'fix it' <G>
[09:28] <lypanov> re
[09:28] <lypanov> clee: machine ordered. recieve on monday :)
[09:28] <rcaskey_> The sysadmin in me says, if it don't work, ghost it
[09:28] <neighborlee> question ...its downloading all of this instead of getting it from the CD...how do I tell aptitude to get from cd instead ? lol
[09:29] <clee> lypanov: nice
[09:29] <m_tthew> neighborlee: my default apt.sources that ubuntu installed has the cdrom source in it already
[09:29] <jsubl2> anyone gotten mplayer and mozilla to work
[09:29] <neighborlee> m_tthew: mine does too
[09:29] <m_tthew> jsubl2: I compiled mplayer by hand it worked fine
[09:30] <neighborlee> m_tthew: hm maybe its a flag I messed up in aptitude
[09:30] <jsubl2> i will try that
[09:30] <m_tthew> neighborless: then I suspect it will grab what it can from the CD
[09:30] <neighborlee> m_tthew: possibly...maybe the cd only has a base system then..
[09:30] <m_tthew> jsubl2: I installed build-essential, then ./configured mplayer with prefix=/usr/local/mplayer; everything compiled and installed without issue, works great
[09:30] <neighborlee> m_tthew: seems unlikely though as it was almost 600MB
[09:31] <jsubl2> m_tthew, you did compile it with the fakeroot thingy
[09:31] <jsubl2> m_tthew, you did NOT rather compile it with the fakeroot thingy
[09:31] <neighborlee> no matter...total progress is at 55% so i'm almost there
[09:31] <m_tthew> neighborlee: the list of packages on the CD is easily visible in the .list file near the iso image
[09:32] <neighborlee> ic
[09:32] <m_tthew> jsubl2: I took my path of least resistance
[09:34] <neighborlee> m_tthew: if I recall you said your install at end gave you a working desktop..so im guessing then that I had touble due to lag experienced by demand.
[09:35] <neighborlee> wait that I think was spiv sory
[09:36] <spiv> neighborlee: There was also a snafu with an uninstallable package in the archive that got fixed a little while ago, so it's possible that was your problem too (if the error was something like "uninstallable dependency gtk2-themes-smooth")
[09:36] <dieman> hmm
[09:37] <neighborlee> spiv: frankly i' m not sure..but yes near end of install I got some error yes
[09:37] <mdz> npmccallum: here?
[09:37] <m_tthew> neighborlee: yes my install gave me a working desktop; video, network, sound
[09:37] <neighborlee> spiv: ijust dont recall sadly what it was
[09:37] <neighborlee> spiv: likely thats it yes ;-))..thx !!
[09:38] <neighborlee> m_tthew: when did you finish your download.maybe this is what spiv is referring to
[09:38] <m_tthew> neighborlee: download of the iso?
[09:38] <neighborlee> yes
[09:39] <neighborlee> spiv said it got fixed a little while ago so maybe thats it
[09:39] <m_tthew> neighborlee: over the weekend
[09:39] <neighborlee> OR I just got caught by lag due to demand
[09:39] <neighborlee> m_tthew: thats not it then likely..it must be demand
[09:39] <spiv> The bug I referred to isn't in the ISO.
[09:39] <neighborlee> cause if your destkop was working fine after install then mine should have also....
[09:40] <neighborlee> spiv: ic
[09:40] <matthewjs> hrmm how would i be able to install wine?
[09:40] <neighborlee> m_tthew: okay then when did you do your install
[09:40] <spiv> It was in the archives, so it would've shown itself when you grabbed the updates from the internet, which the installer does at some point.
[09:40] <m_tthew> neighborlee: I think saturday
[09:40] <neighborlee> hmm
[09:40] <npmccallum> mdz: yes
[09:41] <mdz> npmccallum: have you investigated those cups issues?
[09:41] <neighborlee> spiv: odd I dunno shrug..m_tt* says he installed saturday and had no problems..so I flat dunno wha happened to me other than I guess lag from demand caused something to get missed
[09:41] <npmccallum> mdz: not yet, but I can do that now if you want those higher priority
[09:41] <spiv> neighborlee: When did you try to install?  In the last few hours?
[09:41] <neighborlee> spiv: anyway..desktop install is finshed in aptitude so here goes nottin!
[09:41] <neighborlee> spiv: yes indeed
[09:42] <XTaran> Ok, cu and thx for infos...
[09:42] <spiv> neighborlee: Right, so it's probably the bug I mentioned then.
[09:42] <neighborlee> spiv: in the last hour yes...but the other guy installed saturday
[09:42] <mxpxpod> why does ubuntu install gcc-3.4 by default?
[09:42] <spiv> neighborlee: Because that happened a few hours ago I belive, and just got fixed.
[09:42] <neighborlee> spiv: so I dont see how it would be related
[09:42] <neighborlee> spiv: ahhhhhhhhhhh no wonder
[09:42] <spiv> neighborlee: Didn't the other guy say that it worked for them? :)
[09:42] <neighborlee> spiv: ok kewl that s it then indeed
[09:43] <m_tthew> jluke: ahoy
[09:43] <mdz> npmccallum: what do you have on your todo list right now?
[09:44] <neighborlee> OK aptitude is configuring now..almost there ;-))
[09:44] <npmccallum> mdz: I'm recording the audio theme
[09:44] <mxpxpod> ok, wtf is up with epiphany not being able to start
[09:44] <azeem> mxpxpod: you got epiphany?
[09:44] <npmccallum> mdz: then mostly some bugs, I was going to tackle bugs tomorrow and sat
[09:44] <mdz> npmccallum: ok, yes, please make the bugs a higher priority for the moment; the issues have come up multiple times on the list
[09:44] <mxpxpod> azeem: apt-get install epiphany-browser
[09:45] <npmccallum> mdz: sure thing, I'll look at them now
[09:45] <mteira> Good work, Ubuntu guys!
[09:45] <mteira> Congratulations
[09:45] <mxpxpod> but when it starts up, it tells me it can't find the .server file
[09:45] <mdz> npmccallum: thanks
[09:45] <npmccallum> mdz: btw, I think I'm on the ubuntu-users list 2x, not sure how
[09:45] <azeem> mxpxpod: oh yeah, it's in universe
[09:45] <npmccallum> mdz: I get every message double
[09:46] <azeem> mxpxpod: not supported. Eugenia also said it fails on startup
[09:46] <npmccallum> mdz: is that jdub/mako?
[09:46] <mxpxpod> azeem: why isn't it supported?
[09:46] <elmo_dc> npmccallum: jdub
[09:46] <azeem> mxpxpod: I meant, it's not in the main ubuntu distribution
[09:46] <mxpxpod> azeem: ah, ok
[09:47] <mxpxpod> azeem: actually, for powerpc, epiphany-browser is in main
[09:47] <mako> npmccallum: 
[09:47] <mako> npmccallum: ergh
[09:47] <mako> npmccallum: check the headers, see which email addresses they are coming from
[09:47] <npmccallum> mako: ok
[09:47] <azeem> mxpxpod: oh well, then it wasn't on the CD. apt-get didn't work for me =)
[09:48] <xcasex> so urhm, prism2 drivers, are they availible to ubuntu ?
[09:49] <xcasex> mxpxpod, oooh mon cheri *^_^*
[09:49] <mxpxpod> ok, now esd is failing to start...
[09:49] <xcasex> mxpxpod, just wait until you get to try out the instant apply functions ;)
[09:50] <matthewjs> how do you set up apt-get to install from a diff source, because i need to install wine
[09:50] <spiv> matthewjs: wine is in universe
[09:51] <sweeze> is liveCD downloadable?
[09:52] <mako> npmccallum: do you want gentoo or canonical to remain?
[09:52] <mako> canonical i assume?
[09:52] <mxpxpod> ok, this is really frustrating... esd won't start because it can't open an audio device...
[09:53] <npmccallum> mako: canonical, yes
[09:53] <trukulo> matthewjs, vim /etc/apt/sources.list ... but i don't recommend that
[09:53] <trukulo> use universa, as spiv said
[09:53] <mako>  npmccallum cool, gentoo account removes
[09:53] <mako> ergh.. removed
[09:53] <npmccallum> mako: thanks
[09:54] <neighborlee> thx gents for all the kind patient help
[09:55] <defendguin> do i need to turn on the sound server to hear sounds or can all my apps just go to alsa direct?
[09:57] <al_> hi
[09:58] <sanitario> what is this universe-thingy?
[09:58] <sanitario> (I haven't installed ubuntu yet...)
[09:58] <peacemaker885> defendguin: your apps can use alsa directly, if  remember correctly, but if you like sound multiplexing, like 2 sounds at the same time, you have to have esd use alsa
[09:58] <sabdfl> sanitario: it's everything else from the open source world you might want on warty
[09:58] <sanitario> sabdfl, ok
[09:58] <sanitario> thx
[09:58] <neighborlee> i'm checking out of linspire now ( since I couldnt  install irssi blah blah) like immediately..i'lll be putting ubuntu on my better halfs computer..they can just deal with it..linpsire is NICE for what it offers but its just not for me/us...heh...cheers and ttysoon on 
[09:58] <defendguin> peacemaker885, i thought alsa didnt need a multiplexer
[09:59] <neighborlee> 'the other side ' <G>..cheers and bbsoon
[09:59] <sabdfl> sanitario: makes it easy to find something that's not part of the core, supported distro
[09:59] <mteira> Humm, I just installed tpb and it fails because there's not /dev/nvram.
[09:59] <sabdfl> just remember 'universe' does not have guaranteed security commitment from the core team
[09:59] <mteira> Perhaps it's related with devfs stuff?
[09:59] <peacemaker885> i'm using woody and kde. if i get a message on giam while i', listening to a cd, i don't hear the bell in gaim
[10:00] <Kamion> elmo_dc: can I get remote console on this?
[10:00] <peacemaker885> defendguin: but when i turn off the music, all of the gaim sounds come in. delayed.
[10:00] <defendguin> peacemaker885, well im not hearing any sound right now
[10:00] <defendguin> not giam not rb
[10:00] <Kamion> elmo_dc: (or maybe wander down to the datacentre at some point if we don't figure it out by then)
[10:00] <mxpxpod> are the microsoft fonts somewhere?
[10:00] <Kamion> mteira: we use udev rather than devfs
[10:00] <Kamion> mteira: but it's possible, yes
[10:01] <peacemaker885> defendguin: sorry but my experience was with kde/arts and not gnome/esd.  have you tried the site?  it has a link for sound.
[10:02] <mteira> Kamion: Another weird thing, is that my cdrom has been kidnapped by the system.
[10:02] <defendguin> thansk peacemaker885
[10:02] <neighborlee> heh
[10:02] <mteira> Kamion: It's busy now. I had this kind of problems with nautilus on gnome 2.6 a lot of times.
[10:02] <peacemaker885> defendguin: first things first, you need to have alsa detect ur sound card
[10:02] <Kamion> mteira: you can fiddle with that in Computer -> Desktop Preferences -> Removable Storage
[10:02] <Kamion> mteira: oh, you mean it won't let you unmount?
[10:02] <mteira> Kamion: Yes.
[10:03] <defendguin> peacemaker885, alsa detects my sound card i thing
[10:03] <Kamion> mteira: worst case, pop up a terminal and say 'pumount /dev/cdrom'
[10:03] <defendguin> think
[10:03] <mteira> Kamion: pumount /dev/cdrom
[10:03] <mteira> umount: /media/cdrom0: device is busy
[10:03] <defendguin> it lists my card in the volume control app
[10:03] <Kamion> mteira: all relevant windows closed?
[10:03] <mteira> Kamion: lsof | grep hdc said nothing.
[10:03] <azeem> mteira: maybe try to kill fam, if it runs
[10:03] <mteira> Kamion: Yes.
[10:04] <mteira> azeem: But, shouldn't I detect it in lsof output?
[10:04] <matthewjs> what does apt-get update do?
[10:04] <azeem> mteira: maybe
[10:04] <Kamion> mteira: might need to run lsof as root
[10:04] <mteira>  lsof -p $(pgrep famd)
[10:04] <Kamion> matthewjs: refreshes package/metadata lists from the server
[10:04] <kl_> mteira, try fuser -v
[10:05] <matthewjs> Kamion: ok thanks, i didnt want it to actually update any packages
[10:05] <azeem> mteira: when I have that problem, I never find an offending process via lsof or fuser
[10:05] <Kamion> matthewjs: it definitely doesn't do that
[10:05] <mteira> azeem: Curious.
[10:05] <matthewjs> Kamion: is it like  emerge sync then on gentoo?
[10:05] <mxpxpod> ok, why isn't esd starting??
[10:05] <absolute> Hi all
[10:05] <mteira> No luck after killing famd
[10:05] <Kamion> matthewjs: I've never used Gentoo so I have no idea, sorry
[10:05] <peacemaker885> defendguin: make sure that alsa sound server is not muted.  i don't know if its on by default in wart but its muted when you compile it
[10:05] <mxpxpod> it can't open audio devices...
[10:06] <defendguin> i checked it doesnt seem muted
[10:06] <peacemaker885> hmmnn...
[10:06] <mteira> Made.
[10:06] <mteira> Something strange happened.
[10:06] <mteira> I killed famd using /etc/init.d/fam script
[10:06] <defendguin> peacemaker885, you said there was something about sound on their site?
[10:07] <mteira> But it wasn't killed actually
[10:07] <tritium> matthewjs, yes, similar, but for binary packages as well as source.
[10:07] <peacemaker885> defendguin: yes..let me look
[10:07] <mteira> Now, I've killed it manually and the cdrom is free now.
[10:07] <mteira> Thanks.
[10:07] <azeem> cheers
[10:08] <azeem> jdub packaged gamin AFAIK, so hoary will hopefully perform better in this regard
[10:08] <mteira> See you.
[10:08] <peacemaker885> defendguin: heh..sorry but it was 'sounder'
[10:08] <peacemaker885> not sound
[10:08] <defendguin> lol
[10:08] <tritium> matthewjs, daniel robbins mentioned that he took some of the good ideas in debian (like apt) when he designed emerge/portage
[10:08] <defendguin> let me check to make sure the plug didnt pop out of the back of the computer
[10:09] <peacemaker885> defendguin: yep, its stuff like that half of the time :)
[10:09] <defendguin> peacemaker885, apparently thats what happened
[10:09] <peacemaker885> defendguin: cool..enjoy
[10:09] <defendguin> whoops i guess not
[10:09] <defendguin> :((
[10:10] <peacemaker885> defendguin: i wonder if anyone has gotten sound up? 
[10:10] <npmccallum> mdz: regarding bug (#1265), it doesn't look like cups actually allows you to change the name of a printer.  You have to remove and add a new one (at lesat in the web interface).
[10:10] <matthewjs> i thought the new nautils network view thing was supposed to find local ftp shares too?
[10:10] <defendguin> peacemaker885, sound works when i plugged it into the onboard sound card just not my sb live
[10:10] <mdz> npmccallum: so the bug is that gnome-cups-manager lets you try?
[10:11] <npmccallum> mdz: basically yes
[10:11] <spikeb> alrighty, i have a few issues with the ppc build.
[10:11] <npmccallum> mdz: we can just make that text box non-editable
[10:11] <mdz> npmccallum: if there is a straightforward way to disable that, let's do it
[10:11] <npmccallum> mdz: its just changing a flag on the textbox
[10:12] <peacemaker885> defendguin: maybe there's something about it in the mailing lists..
[10:12] <defendguin> peacemaker885, apparently everything is using oss. and i cant have that
[10:13] <Kamion> spikeb: go for it
[10:13] <peacemaker885> defendguin: not alsa then?
[10:13] <mdz> npmccallum: are you able to reproduce that problem where a printer changed from local to IPP?
[10:13] <defendguin> yeah
[10:13] <defendguin> i dont even understand why they have oss at all
[10:14] <spikeb> when i close the lid on my ibook, it goes to sleep normally. however, when i open the lid some text comes up (stuff about my ethernet card and my airport card, and my cpufreq being unable to assign), and then nothing much happens.
[10:14] <thom> mostly because ESD is utterly broken with alsa
[10:14] <spikeb> so it doesn't really wake up
[10:14] <defendguin> thom, i use esd and alsa on my fedora box and it works just fine
[10:14] <npmccallum> mdz: I tried once last night and wasn't able to, but I'll purge it and try again
[10:15] <thom> defendguin: lucky you. we were seeing a lot of issues,which is why we're using alsa, but esd talks to the oss emulation layer
[10:15] <mdz> defendguin: everything uses ALSA drivers, but the OSS API
[10:15] <mdz> which seems to be the most stable combination
[10:15] <mdz> defendguin: why do you say you can't have that?
[10:15] <clee> wtf.
[10:15] <defendguin> id just rather not have to worry about all my mixer settings on OSS and alsa and just use alsa
[10:16] <clee> shift-clicking on a channel in xchat /parts the channel?
[10:16] <clee> WORST UI EVER
[10:16] <skelll> hello 
[10:16] <lypanov> clee: lol
[10:16] <spikeb> um
[10:16] <spikeb> just click the x button
[10:16] <spikeb> heh
[10:16] <skelll> great job for the ubuntu , felictitation
[10:17] <spikeb> oh, and /dev/pmu permissions are broken (and restored to broken after each reboot, it seems).
[10:17] <skelll> is there any reposity for kde ?
[10:17] <Kamion> spikeb: hmph, my powerbook doesn't even sleep, so I can't test that :-/
[10:17] <spikeb> heh Kamion
[10:17] <Kamion> spikeb: the /dev/pmu issue is known, there's a bug filed
[10:17] <skelll> (i all time install them both and use xfce4 :)
[10:17] <spikeb> ok
[10:18] <Kamion> spikeb: will look at it before final release probably
[10:18] <Kamion> ShitHawk: would appreciate that turned off for #ubuntu, thanks :-)
[10:18] <vincent> hello
[10:18] <vincent> any news concerning the live-cd ?
[10:19] <sladen> vincent: 19:41 <             mdz > bmsleight: the live CD is currently at http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-live/
[10:20] <defendguin> and i cant hear anything when my speakers are plugged into my SB-Live
[10:20] <xcasex> spikeb, g4? talk to mxpxpod he has a solution
[10:20] <spikeb> xcasex, no, g3 ibook.
[10:20] <defendguin> although i have a SB-Live Alsa Mixer
[10:20] <xcasex> spikeb, unplug the powercord and lock the lid in place then ? :)
[10:20] <spikeb> i will try that
[10:20] <xcasex> spikeb, i have to do that, no idea why though
[10:21] <mdz> defendguin: perhaps bug #1293?
[10:21] <xcasex> and when the pbook gets here, i'll grapple it into submission ;)
[10:21] <spikeb> xcasex, well if that does the trick then im fine
[10:21] <vincent> sladen : thank you
[10:21] <xcasex> :)
[10:22] <defendguin> ill check
[10:22] <skelll> there is not others reposity than what i get on the cd ? (can't i install kde ?)
[10:22] <Kamion> skelll: universe; look in /etc/apt/sources.list, the line is there but commented out
[10:22] <skelll> i look that 
[10:23] <skelll> thanks 
[10:23] <defendguin> mdz, might just be it
[10:23] <whiprush> i don't think kde is available yet
[10:23] <defendguin> fedora didnt seem to have this problem
[10:23] <Kamion> whiprush: parts of it are
[10:23] <spikeb> booo kde
[10:24] <Kamion> whiprush: (not on powerpc, though)
[10:24] <xcasex> prism ... 2 ... module?
[10:25] <skelll> mmmm that's not nice for kde :/
[10:25] <tvon> KDE is the default on most distros, I think the community will survive :-D
[10:26] <clee> heh.
[10:26] <skelll> tvon i don't care is or not the default i just want it as i want gnome 
[10:26] <skelll> but i use xfce4 
[10:26] <clee> tvon: the thing is that GNOME has a lot more paid developers hacking on it than KDE does
[10:26] <skelll> i just want them installed 
[10:28] <defendguin> is there a gui to start and stop services (ex. hald)
[10:28] <whiprush> ok, that's getting annoying ShitHawk 
[10:28] <thom> skelll: xfce should be in universe, check /etc/apt/sources.list and see that you have that enabled?
[10:28] <schweeb> whiprush: lol
[10:29] <whiprush> schweeb: you look into this pmount thing yet?
[10:29] <schweeb> whiprush: no
[10:29] <schweeb> whiprush: what is it you're wanting to know?
[10:29] <xcasex> pmount?
[10:29] <thom> policy mount
[10:29] <xcasex> aah
[10:29] <whiprush> schweeb: I haven't tried plugging in my ipod or usb key yet.
[10:29] <whiprush> was wondering if I needed to do an extra step
[10:29] <schweeb> whiprush: oh no, who let b0rk b0rk in here :p
[10:29] <whiprush> or if it just worked.
[10:30] <schweeb> just works
[10:30] <whiprush> woo
[10:30] <xcasex> ...
[10:30] <schweeb> already plugged in my CF drive and my camera
[10:30] <xcasex> schweeb, stfu fratboi
[10:30] <schweeb> :p
[10:30] <schweeb> whiprush: filing a orca ansuload of bugreports right now
[10:30] <xcasex> o.O
[10:31] <skelll> ok found the universe in source.list (i had to boot the other computer)
[10:31] <thom> skelll: if the line is uncommented, then you should be able to apt-get install xfce4 or whatever
[10:31] <skelll> but this kde missing bother me a bit i should say 
[10:32] <thom> it'll be fixed, we had higher priorities prior to the preview
[10:32] <xxorroxx> whiprush: ipod has soft support in *nix ?
[10:32] <neighborlee> need some minor help..i'm trying to install ut2k4 retail version via ./linux-installer.sh..its complaining that: /bin/sh: bad interpreter: permission denied ????
[10:32] <whiprush> xxorroxx: yeah, it's just a usb drive.
[10:33] <windi> neighborlee: is it +x?
[10:33] <xxorroxx> neighborlee: you need to do it as 'root'
[10:33] <skelll> thom, i don't compliant about your job, you done great but this computer is for my nefew and i want them to learn most env (this will be them first computer)
[10:33] <defendguin> i wonder if there is a way to uninstall the onboard sound card?
[10:33] <martinald> hi
[10:33] <martinald> i am a new user!
[10:33] <martinald> i love this distro
[10:33] <xxorroxx> neighborlee: 'su root' 'chmod +x <filename>' <./filename>
[10:33] <clee> martinald: heh.
[10:33] <sladen> neighborlee: what's   ls -ld /bin/sh ; head -1 ./linux-installer.sh   give you?
[10:33] <martinald> i just need two quick peices of advice
[10:33] <xxorroxx> martinald: its a preview rls and is buggy :P
[10:33] <martinald> yea, i havent noticed too many bugs
[10:33] <martinald> infact none
[10:33] <neighborlee> xxorroxx, su root isn't taking my password
[10:34] <martinald> 1) how do i change res and refresh rate for X - is it config file time?
[10:34] <xxorroxx> neighborlee: 'sudo passwd root'
[10:34] <sladen> neighborlee: just type::   sudo ./linux-installer.sh   and enter you _own_ passowrd
[10:34] <neighborlee> xxorroxx, thx mucho that worked
[10:34] <xxorroxx> neighborlee: np
[10:34] <martinald> 2) my mouse is a bit too fast. i need to slow it down. i also need to have my double click speed slowed down
[10:34] <skelll> su is working here 
[10:34] <skelll> i just used it 
[10:34] <xxorroxx> martinald: computer -> system configuration -> screen resolution
[10:35] <xxorroxx> martinald: it changes on-the-fly 
[10:35] <xxorroxx> martinald: pretty nice
[10:35] <martinald> ooooh sweet! i thought i was missing something when there was no config utils
[10:35] <martinald> i didnt think of looking in there
[10:35] <sladen> skelll: it's best to avoid `su' and to use `sudo' for every time you would have logged in as root
[10:35] <neighborlee> yeah mouse was way too fast here at first till I changed it <G>
[10:35] <xxorroxx> martinald: well , why would it be in system configuration =] 
[10:35] <xxorroxx> martinald: jk
[10:36] <skelll> sladen, can you explain me why ?
[10:36] <skelll> i'm an su user 
[10:36] <martinald> i didnt look in computer! silly me
[10:36] <neighborlee> xxorroxx, hmmm i'm still getting:: bash: ./linux-installer.sh: /bin/sh: bad interpreter: Permission denied from doing: ./linux-installer.sh
[10:36] <martinald> ive only used fedora's version of GNOME
[10:36] <martinald> which is horribley bastardised
[10:37] <skelll> redhat is right for bastarising kde-gnome (i totally agree with them)
[10:37] <whiprush> i use gnome in fedora and ubuntu and it's not that much different.
[10:37] <defendguin> its not that bad
[10:37] <sladen> skelll: sudo provides accounabilty (an audit log of what as happened).  sudo avoids shared passwords (you only ever know/use your own passowrd).  sudo stops you needing to run commands like `ls' as root that you might do if you were using su or a root login
[10:37] <martinald> skell: so do i
[10:37] <defendguin> i think they screw kde over a bit more
[10:37] <spikeb> bah
[10:38] <martinald> but it just means that i don't know what real gnome is like
[10:38] <spikeb> wonderland rocks :)
[10:38] <martinald> kde sux imo. i just don't like it
[10:38] <martinald> i like some of their apps, but its way too cluttered for my liking
[10:38] <skelll> sladen : ok i'll man sudo, thanks 
[10:38] <tseng> you can unclutter it
[10:38] <martinald> hmm. this really doesn't look like 85Hz you know... it looks more like 75Hz
[10:38] <tseng> but it still doesnt "feel" right
[10:38] <martinald> yea but its a lot of work
[10:38] <martinald> i know. gnome just feels a lot better without pissing around with preferences
[10:38] <whiprush> tseng: your mono repo made me happy today.
[10:38] <tseng> whiprush: :)
[10:39] <whiprush> tseng: what's it take to convince you to package ifolder? ;)
[10:39] <tseng> hah
[10:39] <tseng> is that oss now?
[10:39] <whiprush> yep
[10:39] <whiprush> all gpl
[10:39] <whiprush> it even works
[10:39] <neighborlee> martinald: its that way cause it catres to the target audience and why many distros use it as defaut sadly
[10:39] <neighborlee> martinald: thakfully ubuntu didnt go down that path!!
[10:40] <martinald> yes
[10:40] <punkass> experiences with Ubuntu?
[10:40] <xcasex> whiprush, mono repo?
[10:40] <martinald> neighborlee: i love the fact there is only one app supplied for each job
[10:40] <punkass> good/bad?
[10:40] <martinald> its so stupid having 3 or 4 for everything
[10:40] <neighborlee> martinald: yup same here..efficient clean and fast
[10:40] <whiprush> xcasex: see the list, for ubuntu
[10:40] <martinald> i mean im running this on a 800mhz box (my spare/test box) and its fast as lightning
[10:40] <neighborlee> punkass: so far..I find it very fast and 'clean'..I LOVE having no damn desktop  icons LOL
[10:41] <punkass> hehe.. good to hear.
[10:41] <martinald> ok i have one more problem
[10:41] <skelll> sladen, ok ok i know why i don't use sudo now, i can handle a # np i'll continue to su , your advice is a good advice tought
[10:41] <mteira> Hello again.
[10:41] <martinald> im using a MS optical explorer mouse. it has 5 buttons, but only 3 are working
[10:41] <neighborlee> however I need help with this error guys please: bash: ./linux-installer.sh: /bin/sh: bad interpreter: Permission denied...this isn't going to fly if I can't install any of my linux retail games LOL!!
[10:41] <martinald> and the mouse wheel doesn't close tabs in firefox, it only opens them - anyone know why?
[10:41] <sladen> skelll: could you say that again, I don't quiet understand
[10:42] <defendguin> hmmm beep media player seems broken
[10:42] <whiprush> neighborlee: try 'sudo sh linux-installer.sh'
[10:42] <sladen> neighborlee: what does   ls -l /bin/sh ./linux-installer.sh  ; head -1 ./linux-install.sh   print out
[10:42] <kl_> isn't that the default firefox behaviour on linux? (not closing tabs)
[10:42] <mteira> defendguin: Broken?
[10:42] <neighborlee> whiprush, yes that works BUT..i sticks me with a non-GUI installation routine..and thats crappy
[10:42] <whiprush> oh oh
[10:42] <defendguin> yeah i try to play a file it crashes
[10:43] <mteira> defendguin: I'm gonna try
[10:43] <neighborlee> parden my leet mentality not showing but I like my GUI's rofl
[10:43] <skelll> sladen : after done man sudo, i remembered why i don't use sudo , i can handle a root shell so i'll continue to use su 
[10:43] <defendguin> ogg mp3 anything
[10:43] <mxpxpod> is anyone else having problems with the ubuntu servers?
[10:43] <mteira> defendguin: it works for me
[10:43] <defendguin> hmmm
[10:43] <tseng> mxpxpod: you mean the slashdot effect?
[10:43] <mxpxpod> tseng: I can't apt-get update
[10:44] <xxorroxx> neighborlee: jus use the console install and READ , quit whinning
[10:44] <mteira> I think Ubuntu is on the right way.
[10:44] <sladen> skelll: still don't understand the bit about handling a root shell?
[10:44] <whiprush> kl_: type about:config in the firefox location bar, and then you want to change middlemouse.contentLoadURL to false.
[10:44] <elmo_dc> Kamion: I can get you access - it'll only work tho if we don't use FB - is that poss?
[10:44] <mteira> Of course, it has little problems.
[10:44] <ficusplanet> Are you guys aware that home.ubuntu.com is down/non-existent?
[10:44] <xxorroxx> I think its a broken debian with new gnome , and thats were the perks end
[10:44] <kl_> whiprush, thanks but martinald was asking for that ;)
[10:44] <whiprush> oh
[10:44] <skelll> i used to be root since several years and i never done anything bad 
[10:45] <mteira> xxorroxx: I had to put some time on my debian to make it works near this.
[10:45] <skelll> that can happen tought i know
[10:45] <mxpxpod> hrmm, xchat 2.0.8... ubuntu needs an update ;)
[10:45] <elmo_dc> ficusplanet: how do you mean? 
[10:45] <elmo_dc> ficusplanet: redirects to www.ubuntulinux.org for me?
[10:46] <mxpxpod> and we need the microsoft fonts...
[10:46] <ficusplanet> When I click on "About Ubuntu..." in the Computer menu no site comes up, just an error dialog.
[10:46] <thom> ficusplanet: works fine for me
[10:46] <elmo_dc> ficusplanet: what's the error say?
[10:46] <ficusplanet> Oh, OK.  I'm using epiphany.  It does load.  It just gives an error dialog first.
[10:46] <seb128> ficusplanet: what's the prefered browser in gnome ?
[10:46] <defendguin> mteira, ok now it doesnt crash i just get no sound :)
[10:46] <ficusplanet> home.ubuntu.com could not be found. Please check the name and try again.
[10:46] <mteira> defendguin: I get sound.
[10:46] <thom> mxpxpod: fonts are an interesting problem, that we'll be spending more time on (post warty, probably)
[10:47] <defendguin> mteira, im not getting any sound at all
[10:47] <mxpxpod> thom: any clue where I can pick them up for now?
[10:47] <kl_> google for corefonts
[10:47] <mxpxpod> defendguin: are you using esd?
[10:47] <defendguin> mteira, not from any app
[10:47] <mteira> defendguin: Do you get sound from Rythmbox, for example?
[10:47] <thom> mxpxpod: there's a package in universe to download them
[10:47] <defendguin> mteira, nope
[10:47] <skelll> cya thanks
[10:47] <defendguin> mxpxpod, yeah 
[10:47] <mxpxpod> thom: I don't see it...
[10:47] <mteira> defendguin: Have you adjusted the volume controls?
[10:47] <thom> mxpxpod: msttcorefonts
[10:47] <defendguin> mteira, yes
[10:47] <mxpxpod> defendguin: which libesd are you using? libesd0 or libesd-alsa0?
[10:47] <thom> (or, it _should_ be there :-) )
[10:48] <mxpxpod> thom: it's not there in the ppc repo
[10:48] <martinald> thanks for the ff tip
[10:48] <defendguin> mxpxpod, i get sound when i plug my speakers into the onboard card not the SB-Live :(
[10:48] <martinald> what about ms mouse with all buttons working?
[10:48] <mxpxpod> defendguin: no clue
[10:48] <kl_> why are fonts such an issue? i like bitstream vera, vera is not metric compatible with arial or times new roman, but that's a minor issue imo
[10:48] <mxpxpod> defendguin: sounds like it detected the on-board first
[10:48] <defendguin> mxpxpod, libesd0
[10:49] <thom> mxpxpod: hrm. file a bug, please. i think it should be around
[10:49] <tseng> defendguin: you can disable the onboard audio in bios usually
[10:49] <defendguin> hmmmm
[10:49] <defendguin> good idea
[10:49] <mteira> I have some problems burning rw cds.
[10:49] <mteira> When the CD is inserted, it's automatically mounted.
[10:49] <mxpxpod> suck!
[10:49] <mxpxpod> my eject key doesn't work on my ibook
[10:49] <mteira> So, the nautilus-cd-burner fails saying the CD is busy.
[10:49] <mxpxpod> oh, you know what...
[10:50] <thom> mxpxpod: (you can just lift the package from debian)
[10:50] <mteira> If I start the burning process without any cd in.
[10:50] <mteira> nautilus-cd-burner asks me for a cd.
[10:50] <ficusplanet> If I install this libflash thing from the repos, will it work as a mozilla plugin?
[10:51] <mteira> I inserted a yet written rwcd, but It seems that it's mounted before the CD burning starts.
[10:51] <mteira> It got burned, but also mounted.
[10:51] <mteira> It's a mess.
[10:51] <martinald> sorry for all the questions. i seem to be having bother with MP3 playback
[10:51] <martinald> does it come with the codecs?
[10:51] <mxpxpod> ugh, this is why I hate pbbuttonsd
[10:51] <mteira> Because it's blank while mounted, but then written.
[10:52] <mteira> Perhaps it should be automaticalle unmounted when trying to burn it.
[10:52] <mxpxpod> if I'm going to use GNOME, I don't need all that stupid volume key crap that pbbuttonsd uses
[10:53] <schweeb> mdz: man, you're quick on the bugzilla :p
[10:53] <mxpxpod> who here uses ubuntu on powerpc?
[10:54] <mdz> mxpxpod: I do, as do many other canonical folk
[10:54] <mdz> schweeb: :-)
[10:54] <mxpxpod> mdz: on an ibook?
[10:54] <mdz> mxpxpod: no, on a desktop.   jdub uses it on an ibook
[10:55] <mxpxpod> jdub: ping
[10:55] <ficusplanet> mdz: Is it possible to have a fully functional flash plugin on ppc?
[10:55] <martinald> could someone give me a hand setting up sound?
[10:55] <martinald> or a tutorial to do it?
[10:55] <mxpxpod> mdz: pbbuttonsd is being retarded
[10:55] <mdz> mxpxpod: it's 0700 down there, he's probably not awake yet
[10:55] <mxpxpod> mdz: I can't set my eject key in GNOME because pbbuttonsd is stealing it
[10:55] <mdz> ficusplanet: for it to be truly fully functional, I think it would have to come from macromedia, and I don't think they provide a linux/powerpc plugin
[10:55] <mteira> Is there any plan for an gtk2 emacs21 port?
[10:56] <defendguin> i disabled my onboard sound card
[10:56] <spikeb> mxpxpod, change it
[10:56] <mxpxpod> spikeb: to what?
[10:56] <mdz> mxpxpod: is this the issue where f12 and eject are the same key or something?
[10:56] <mteira> I've been using a cvs version with gtk2 support for some time on debian.
[10:56] <defendguin> ahh much better
[10:56] <spikeb> mxpxpod, change the pbbuttonsd buttons to use the f10 and f11 keys instead of 11 and 12
[10:56] <mxpxpod> spikeb: so, how do I use f12 then?
[10:57] <spikeb> mxpxpod, after pbbuttonsd quits stealing it you can use it for whatever you want
[11:00] <mxpxpod> spikeb: also, when I start up GNOME, I get a dialog box that says that permissions on /dev/pmu are broken
[11:00] <mdz> Zomb: any idea about https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1153 ?
[11:01] <defendguin> is anyone else having problems with the hal-device-manager?
[11:01] <martinald> defend, what sort of problem?
[11:01] <mxpxpod> spikeb: also, how do you keep pbbuttonsd from controlling your sound device?
[11:01] <defendguin> defendguin@gnome ~ $ hal-device-manager
[11:01] <defendguin> Could not get device list. Make sure hald is running
[11:01] <xcasex> mxpxpod, hey can you run gnome-volume-manager?
[11:02] <xxorroxx> defendguin: 'hald'
[11:02] <mxpxpod> xcasex: yup
[11:02] <defendguin> but ive run hald and that doesnt change
[11:02] <clee> jdub, mako, other canonical insiders: what's the deal with KDE?
[11:02] <spikeb> mxpxpod, the pmu thing is known, and has to be fixed every boot. i dont know about the sound card thing though
[11:02] <clee> obviously it's not in warty.
[11:02] <defendguin> i agree
[11:02] <xxorroxx> clee: build from source
[11:02] <mxpxpod> spikeb: do you just let pbbuttonsd take over your system?
[11:02] <xcasex> mxpxpod, hmm :/
[11:02] <spikeb> mxpxpod, yeah i do
[11:03] <clee> xxorroxx: I do that already. I'm wondering if it's ever going to be an option, if it's going to just be available but not supported, or if it's going to become a supported platform at some point
[11:03] <defendguin> xxorroxx, how can i check to see what services are running?
[11:03] <mxpxpod> spikeb: do you use the gnome keybindings?
[11:03] <xxorroxx> defendguin: ps aux 
[11:03] <martinald> is there an alt sources.list for apt? because the current repos is a bit empty and i wonder if i could use others without problems?
[11:03] <spikeb> mxpxpod, no
[11:03] <xxorroxx> alls I care about is k3b
[11:04] <xxorroxx> and im building just what that needs
[11:04] <defendguin> defendguin@gnome ~ $ hald
[11:04] <defendguin> defendguin@gnome ~ $ ps ax | grep hal
[11:04] <defendguin> defendguin@gnome ~ $
[11:04] <defendguin> nothing there :(
[11:04] <mxpxpod> spikeb: how do you show where the volume is on your system?
[11:04] <xxorroxx> are there different kernel versions inside ubuntu ?
[11:04] <spikeb> mxpxpod, i look at the sound applet
[11:05] <spikeb> mxpxpod, if you assign the sound keys to the same keys as pbbuttonsd, it works fine, too.
[11:05] <spikeb> mxpxpod, the problem comes in when you want to use a key for something pbbuttonsd is already doing differently
[11:05] <tseng> sweet my pet peeve volume bug is fixed
[11:05] <clee> hrm. jdub, mako, thom? nobody?
[11:06] <thom> clee: according to lamont kdebase has built on i386 now, should be in the universe archive
[11:06] <martinald> how do i get mp3 working?
[11:06] <clee> thom: Not quite the answer I'm looking for :)
[11:07] <thom> clee: what would you like to know?
[11:07] <clee> thom: As far as KDE goes, are we talking optional addon, stopgap until GNOME destroys KDE, or to-be-supported platform?
[11:07] <flubber> join #debian
[11:07] <thom> currently, optional addon.
[11:08] <defendguin> freak
[11:08] <clee> thom: that's kind of what I gathered. Is it going to stay that way indefinitely, or are there greater plans that you're allowed to share?
[11:08] <thom> clee: as they say, watch this space.
[11:08] <xcasex> spikeb, know which cli app to use to figure out which keycode is which key?
[11:09] <defendguin> this sucks
[11:09] <defendguin> maybe hald is crashing
[11:09] <spikeb> xcasex, showkey
[11:09] <al_> hi
[11:10] <xcasex> spikeb, why didnt i think of that
[11:10] <al_> i've just installed ubuntu on my pc, and i'd really need flash/java/microsoft fonts
[11:10] <xxorroxx> why did you guys replace kdebase with gnome-icon-themes
[11:10] <xxorroxx> thats lame++
[11:10] <xxorroxx> fix that crap
[11:10] <al_> do you know a simple way to install them ?
[11:11] <mxpxpod> spikeb: actually, you can solve the permission thing using udev... put pmu:root:pmu:660 in /etc/udev/permissions.d/udev.permissions and then create a pmu group and add yourself to you
[11:11] <spikeb> mxpxpod, cool
[11:11] <martinald> al_ same problem here
[11:11] <spikeb> mxpxpod, thanks for the tip
[11:11] <spikeb> xcasex, no idea
[11:11] <mxpxpod> spikeb: that's what I did on debian
[11:11] <xxorroxx> how do I modify the apt-get/dpkg database so that I can install kde .. without uninstall gnome-icon-themes/rest of gnome
[11:11] <mxpxpod> spikeb: also, showkey is giving me hex codes
[11:12] <mxpxpod> and strange ones at that
[11:12] <xxorroxx> whos genius idea was it to REPLACE kdebase with gnome-icon-themes
[11:12] <xxorroxx> !
[11:12] <martinald> i need basically: mp3 support for gstreamer, flash and java (which i don't need if i could have FF 1.0PR since it'd sort it out for me) and also MS fonts
[11:12] <spikeb> is it?
[11:12] <xcasex> yeah
[11:12] <spikeb> mxpxpod, it should just be giving you numbers
[11:12] <spikeb> like 88 for this key and 67 for that
[11:12] <seb128> xxorroxx: do you know what Replaces is ?
[11:12] <mxpxpod> press any key (program terminates after 10s of last keypress)...
[11:12] <mxpxpod> 0x00 0x81 0xa1 0x80 0x81 0xa1
[11:12] <mxpxpod> 0x00 0x81 0xa1 0x80 0x81 0xa1
[11:12] <seb128> xxorroxx: that's just to overwrite a file from an another package
[11:12] <xxorroxx> seb128: what kind of question is that
[11:13] <seb128> xxorroxx: "whos genius idea was it to REPLACE kdebase with gnome-icon-themes"
[11:13] <xxorroxx> seb128: they conflict with one another , why ..
[11:13] <seb128> xxorroxx: both package have a common icon file (same path/name)
[11:13] <seb128> conflict ?
[11:13] <xxorroxx> seb128: any way to force install ?
[11:13] <seb128> what's the problem ?
[11:14] <xxorroxx> the problem is obvious , kdebase wont install
[11:14] <mxpxpod> spikeb: also, do you run apmd?
[11:14] <seb128> xxorroxx: more details
[11:14] <seb128> "doesn't work", "won't install"
[11:14] <seb128> that's not clear
[11:14] <seb128> errors msgs ?
[11:14] <seb128> problem ? crash ?
[11:14] <xxorroxx> However the following packages replace it:
[11:14] <xxorroxx>   gnome-icon-theme
[11:14] <xxorroxx> E: Package kdebase has no installation candidate
[11:14] <xxorroxx> you know what the problem is , I just specified it
[11:14] <xxorroxx> dont talk to me like im stupid and being vague
[11:15] <Sirius_Black> hi guys - just installed ubuntu and I find there is no root
[11:15] <xxorroxx> I said .. gnome-icon-themes conflicts with kdebase .. and you said they had a common file , which is the problem
[11:15] <Sirius_Black> how do I 'add' root
[11:15] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: use sudo
[11:15] <whiprush> Sirius_Black: you need to use sudo, it's in the faq.
[11:15] <xxorroxx> Sirus: sudo passwd root , su root 
[11:15] <Sirius_Black> what just sude and no root
[11:15] <seb128> xxorroxx: no, you said replaces, that's not conflicts
[11:15] <xxorroxx> seb128: you just saw the error , cant you read ?
[11:15] <Sirius_Black> *sudo
[11:15] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: yes, that's now considered the more "secure" way to do things
[11:15] <jsutwes> sudo passwd root  then you type the password for the user you are logged in as
[11:16] <seb128> xxorroxx: yes, looks like you don't have any source to install kdebase
[11:16] <xxorroxx> Sirius_Black: I just said .. 'sudo passwd root' , change pass 'su root'
[11:16] <seb128> xxorroxx: "no installation candidate"
[11:16] <Sirius_Black> ta mate
[11:16] <seb128> xxorroxx: apt-cache policy kdebase ?
[11:16] <defendguin> :( totem has no video when i play a divx file
[11:16] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: I would suggest keeping the sudo roue
[11:16] <xxorroxx> can you add regular debian unstable sources to apt ?
[11:16] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: er route
[11:16] <seb128> xxorroxx: yes, but better to add universe source
[11:17] <xxorroxx> seb128: I UNCOMMENTED the universe sources already
[11:17] <seb128> xxorroxx: apt-cache policy kdebase ?
[11:17] <mxpxpod> xxorroxx: calm down, dude
[11:17] <schweeb> xxorroxx: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.5722653677
[11:17] <seb128> if you don't reply to question no way to get help ...
[11:17] <jsutwes> nah, let him type in caps, i'm enjoying myself whle at work
[11:17] <Tybstar> xxorroxx: your attutide isn't going to earn you much help here
[11:17] <xxorroxx> kdebase:
[11:17] <xxorroxx>   Installed: (none)
[11:17] <xxorroxx>   Candidate: (none)
[11:17] <xxorroxx>   Version Table:
[11:17] <mxpxpod> jsutwes: haha
[11:17] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.5722653677
[11:18] <xxorroxx> Tybstar: sorry , I need k3b .. bad
[11:18] <Sirius_Black> schweeb, yeah yeah got it now mate - tnx n e way
[11:18] <xxorroxx> I gotta backup a bunch of stuff
[11:18] <seb128> xxorroxx: that's not a conflicts, replaces, or whatever problem, you just don't have a source with this package
[11:18] <mxpxpod> xxorroxx: why not use mkisofs and cdrecord?
[11:18] <elmo_dc> xxorroxx: did you apt-get update after uncommenting universe?
[11:18] <elmo_dc> because kdebase is definitely in there
[11:18] <xxorroxx> mxpxpod: cli retarded ?
[11:18] <mxpxpod> huh?
[11:18] <xxorroxx> mxpxpod: I'm cli retarded rather
[11:18] <Sirius_Black> is ubuntu sarge or sid or both? and is it safe for me to dist-upgrade to sid
[11:18] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[11:19] <JStrike> Hi Ubuntu'ers. Nice to see some familiar people here
[11:19] <elmo_dc> xxorroxx: put an empty CD in the drive; gnome's dvd/cd writer will pop up, it's a fairly usable  GUI
[11:19] <whiprush> throw an empty CDR in the drive, nautilus cd burner will pop up.
[11:19] <whiprush> or places->cdburner
[11:19] <clee> mxpxpod: finish Coaster so that they can include it and people can stop bitching about Ubuntu not being able to burn CDs ;)
[11:19] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: it's essentially Sid frozen at a certain date, plus bugfixes
[11:19] <xxorroxx> elmo_dc: yeah I know nautilus cdburner , I NEED k3b =] 
[11:19] <mxpxpod> clee: haha!
[11:19] <seb128> xxorroxx: it's in universe
[11:19] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: and then there's some newer stuff, like GNOME 2.8
[11:19] <Sirius_Black> schweeb, so IT IS safe to dist-upgrade to sid then
[11:19] <xxorroxx> what the hell
[11:19] <xxorroxx> now its working
[11:19] <xxorroxx> did you guys jus fix it 
[11:19] <xxorroxx> ?
[11:19] <elmo_dc> xxorroxx: no
[11:19] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: you can dist-upgrade to sid, but the results might not be perfect
[11:20] <xxorroxx> hahaha
[11:20] <xxorroxx> <- retarded
[11:20] <JStrike> Is Mark ever here? Or is he just a silent investor?
[11:20] <schweeb> xxorroxx: when you edit your sources.list, you need to apt-get update afterwards
[11:20] <schweeb> every time
[11:20] <xxorroxx> schweeb: I did ...
[11:20] <Sirius_Black> schweeb, ok then, shall i just uncomment lines in sources.list and then apt get update
[11:20] <xxorroxx> schweeb: I dunno how it didnt work .. but I tried again and it did .
[11:20] <xxorroxx> weird
[11:21] <seb128> xxorroxx: you "apt-get update" before ?
[11:21] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: yea.. if you want packages that aren't in main or restricted, uncomment the lines with "universe"... it'll have most of the pkgs from sid
[11:21] <xxorroxx> seb128: yea man , ran debian for years , thats why I knew to edit /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:21] <seb128> xxorroxx: ok ...
[11:21] <Sirius_Black> schweeb, these would be sid packages only and not experimental and similar
[11:21] <seb128> so you should know what replaces is :p
[11:21] <xxorroxx> network connection was down *shrug*
[11:21] <xxorroxx> no idea why it didnt work
[11:21] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: yea, sid
[11:22] <Sirius_Black> schweeb, tnx mate
[11:22] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: but not current sid
[11:22] <xxorroxx> seb: as a user , everything always worked never had any package problems
[11:22] <seb128> ok, should be the same here
[11:22] <seb128> dunno what happened
[11:22] <schweeb> Sirius_Black: frozen at the same time as ubuntu
[11:22] <xxorroxx> seb128: I think they just fixed it recently .. cause I tried it multiple times why streaming audio
[11:22] <xxorroxx> seb128: so net connection couldnt have been down
[11:22] <schweeb> xxorroxx: you obviously have never used sid
[11:22] <seb128> ok
[11:23] <xxorroxx> schweeb: sid == unstable ?
[11:23] <schweeb> yes
[11:23] <xxorroxx> I use main
[11:23] <xxorroxx> 'used'
[11:23] <xxorroxx> stable .. whatever
[11:23] <xxorroxx> potato ?
[11:23] <defendguin> can totem-gstreamer play divx files?
[11:23] <xxorroxx> heh
[11:23] <Sirius_Black> ok then schweeb - if i uncomment those lines and the do apt-get update, will i be able to install kde 3.3??
[11:23] <JStrike> Anyone feel up to answering my Mark S question?
[11:23] <schweeb> xxorroxx: well, that's why they call it stable
[11:23] <xxorroxx> Sirius_Black: yeah
[11:23] <mxpxpod> spikeb: do you use powernowd or cpufreqd?
[11:23] <Sirius_Black> xxorroxx, tnx mate
[11:23] <thom> JStrike: he's around yes
[11:24] <schweeb> xxorroxx: as has been mentioned to you, KDE and friends are in "universe" are unsupported, and my not work
[11:24] <mdz> xxorroxx: k3b is installable now, working OK for you?
[11:24] <xxorroxx> SIGSEGV
[11:24] <JStrike> thom : Whats his nick normally?
[11:24] <xxorroxx> lame+++++
[11:24] <schweeb> xxorroxx: not to mention it's a preview release
[11:24] <xxorroxx> 'no debugging symbols found' on k3b 0_o
[11:24] <Sirius_Black> guys - is ubuntu a british distro?
[11:25] <mxpxpod> xxorroxx: hey, if you have problems with it, you have 3 options... go back to a distro you know it works with, use other software, or fix it
[11:25] <elmo_dc> Sirius_Black: no
[11:25] <crimsun> it doesn't have one country of origin
[11:25] <Sirius_Black> ok
[11:25] <mdz> xxorroxx: segfaults when?  it starts up fine for me
[11:25] <spikeb> mxpxpod, cpufreq but it doesn't seem to work very well
[11:25] <mdz> though it certainly is ugly
[11:25] <Livewire-> Distrowatch has put origin as Isle Of Man - UK
[11:25] <spikeb> bbs folks
[11:25] <mxpxpod> spikeb: really? did you uninstall powernowd?
[11:25] <xxorroxx> mdz: ugly ?
[11:25] <JStrike> Sirius_Black : It is South African. Well, the company is at least
[11:25] <crimsun> mdz and his love for gcombust =)
[11:25] <mdz> JStrike: Canonical is an Isle of Man company
[11:25] <elmo_dc> JStrike: no, the company is an Isle of Man company
[11:25] <xxorroxx> mdz: why doesnt X have aa fonts ... I just noticed that
[11:26] <mdz> Ubuntu is a global project :-)
[11:26] <azeem> are actually some canonical dudes working at the same place together?
[11:26] <JStrike> Where on earth is isle of man?
[11:26] <mdz> xxorroxx: it does, in GNOME.  perhaps they don't work properly in KDE apps
[11:26] <JStrike> And Mark is South African. As is the word Ubuntu
[11:26] <Livewire-> Isle of man is between Wales and Ireland
[11:26] <elmo_dc> jstrike: a small island off the coast of the UK
[11:26] <kl_> isle of man company, that sounds like a bahamas bank account :)
[11:26] <spikeb> interesting
[11:26] <Livewire-> in the Irish Sea
[11:26] <mdz> azeem: some of us are within a short distance of each other, but not working in the same building
[11:26] <azeem> mdz: thx
[11:26] <mdz> azeem: at least not all of the time
[11:26] <xxorroxx> Livewire-: its a tax shelter/haven
[11:27] <xxorroxx> Livewire-: they must be planning on adding some AWSOME features hehe 
[11:27] <spikeb> mxpxpod, no i left things as they were by the install with regards to the powernow/cpufreq thing.
[11:27] <spikeb> bbl
[11:27] <Livewire-> I didnt know it was.. but im from the uk myself
[11:27] <mdz> mako: hey
[11:27] <mxpxpod> spikeb: try uninstalling powernowd... I have a config you might like for cpufreqd
[11:27] <xxorroxx> Livewire-: "Isle of man" ,"Tax shelter" www.google.com
[11:27] <spikeb> ok
[11:27] <spikeb> wtf
[11:27] <spikeb> now my laptop isn't going to sleep at all
[11:28] <mxpxpod> spikeb: what laptop?
[11:28] <JStrike> Bah. Sounds like denial. South African financed and Named. It is South African
[11:28] <spikeb> mxpxpod, ibook g3 700mhz
[11:28] <Livewire->  <xxorroxx> makes sense
[11:28] <tory> Does anybody know how to get msttcorefonts installed?
[11:28] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[11:28] <mxpxpod> spikeb: mine won't sleep (g4)
[11:28] <spikeb> mine DID sleep but didn't want to wake up
[11:28] <spikeb> now its not sleeping
[11:28] <spikeb> heh
[11:28] <whiprush> schweeb: you ever get suspend working in ubuntu?
[11:29] <kl_> tory, if you have the extracted ttfs, then just point nautilus to fonts:// and drop your ttfs there
[11:29] <thom> JStrike: mark lives in london, the company is based in the isle of man, the name is zulu or xhosa, i forget which
[11:29] <Livewire-> btw is anyone signing up for the free CDs? .. is it much hassle?
[11:29] <tory> kl_: ok
[11:30] <xxorroxx> so what are you you guys going to add
[11:30] <xxorroxx> that you need to incorporate in isle of man ?
[11:30] <xxorroxx> oh yeah .. how do you fix this .. Xlib:  extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0".
[11:31] <thom> Livewire-: it takes about a second
[11:31] <JStrike> thom : Fully aware what it means. I am South African. 
[11:31] <xxorroxx> glx missing , but glx is loaded in XF86Config-4
[11:31] <JStrike> thom : He might live in London lately. But he is still South African. He spends alot of time here still
[11:32] <mxpxpod> why does ubuntu come with gcc-3.4 as default?
[11:32] <thom> JStrike: for sure
[11:32] <maswan> mxpxpod: (pure guess): because it is the latest stable gcc release?
[11:32] <Livewire-> thom: i only want a couple of CDs.. theres no way i'll be able to distribute 10 of the,
[11:33] <mxpxpod> maswan: heh, oh, right
[11:33] <tory> kl_: where can I download the fonts from?
[11:33] <mxpxpod> hmm...
[11:33] <maswan> mxpxpod: also, there are significant amd64 fixes in 3.4
[11:33] <mxpxpod> when you install gcc, it defaults to 3.3
[11:35] <Livewire-> thom: will version 1 be 1 CD?
[11:35] <elmo_dc> Livewire-: it'll always be 1 CD
[11:35] <Livewire-> thom: may as well DL the preview if its only going to stay one CD
[11:35] <Livewire-> ah ok
[11:37] <JStrike> Bugger. I now have to choose between patriotism and loyalty to Ximian. 
[11:38] <sladen> azeem: it will always.  We have the internet, and we have DVDs
[11:39] <azeem> hmm, haven't got access to my quotefile right now anyway
[11:39] <JStrike> thom : Didn't get what Mark's nick is btw :-)
[11:40] <xxorrorxx> hrm
[11:40] <mdz> JStrike: sabdfl
[11:41] <xxorrorxx> so this project is completely open source/non-profit ?
[11:41] <xxorrorxx> funded by the shuttleworth foundation ?
[11:41] <npmccallum> mdz: the one cups bug is fixed (I uploaded the switch from GtkEntry to GtkLabel)
[11:41] <JStrike> mdz: You are shitting me? 
[11:41] <jivera> It can be open source and still be funded, can't it?
[11:41] <sabdfl> JStrike: sup?
[11:41] <sabdfl> xxorrorxx: no, for profit, funded by the same guy who funds the shuttleworth foundation
[11:42] <xxorrorxx> sabdfl: for profit 0_o
[11:42] <sabdfl> 0_o?
[11:42] <dredg> holy crap, just because you make something open source doesnt mean that you have to give it away for nothing
[11:43] <JStrike> sabdfl : Hi Mark. Just very proud and honoured to speak to you :-)
[11:43] <dredg> you can sell it under an appropriate license
[11:43] <xxorrorxx> dredg: just dont see the market for it is all 
[11:43] <dredg> you just have to honour that licence when it comes to giving away the source
[11:43] <jivera> GPL allows you to sell stuff; even the FSF sold tapes of compiled software to people back in the day.
[11:43] <xxorrorxx> dredg: and its composed of so many other peoples code , dont see how that works
[11:43] <JStrike> sabdfl : And wanted to know your nick in case I have come accross you before in #mono, etc
[11:43] <sabdfl> JStrike: <blush> i put my trousers on one leg at a time too, but thank you
[11:43] <jivera> xxorrorxx: Have you even read the GPL?
[11:44] <xxorrorxx> jivera: no , probably why Im confused
[11:44] <spikeb> hey now
[11:44] <spikeb> some of us are political about the license AND free beer thing
[11:44] <jivera> xxorrorxx: The GPL simply requires you to redistribute source code along with binaries.
[11:44] <xxorrorxx> jivera: oh , cool
[11:44] <mdz> sabdfl: I believe 0_o = one eye wide
[11:44] <mdz> or raised eyebrow
[11:44] <jivera> spikeb: That's fine, but it's still wrong to equate the two in the general case.
[11:44] <xxorrorxx> sabdfl: you're a big mono developer ?
[11:44] <elmo_dc> oh, I thought it was a stick man holding a shield in his hand
[11:45] <sabdfl> for clarity, we are never going to charge a licence fee for Ubuntu
[11:45] <spikeb> jivera, that i agree with
[11:45] <sabdfl> xxorrorxx: nope
[11:45] <azeem> I thought it meant 'oh oh'
[11:45] <spikeb> jivera, the two should only be an issue to those who want to MAKE it an (informed) issue
[11:45] <xxorrorxx> sabdfl: so why is Jstrike so happy to meet you
[11:45] <xxorrorxx> spikeb: its not an issue , I was just curious
[11:45] <mdz> xxorrorxx: it's not enough that he's a swell guy? ;-)
[11:45] <spikeb> xxorrorxx, oh
[11:45] <spikeb> xxorrorxx, hehe
[11:45] <dredg> if something does what i need it to do, costs money yet still gives me the power to modify it for my needs then thats ok too :)
[11:45] <xxorrorxx> mdz: sure , but .. I thought there was something else
[11:46] <jivera> spikeb: Right.
[11:46] <sabdfl> xxorrorxx: i expect we share a common interest or two
[11:46] <xxorrorxx> dredg: its already free , how can you charge for it
[11:46] <mdz> xxorrorxx: JStrike is apparently in south africa, where sabdfl is from
[11:46] <jivera> xxorrorxx: By only giving it to people who pay you, but they can of course get it from someone else.
[11:46] <peacemaker885> this may be a metacity thing but when i use 'reduced_resources', double click on the window to maximize, wire frames stay on my screen.  has anyone experienced this?
[11:47] <jivera> xxorrorxx: Alternatively, you can could charge people to meet special needs like porting software to new hardware.
[11:47] <jivera> xxorrorxx: Or to translate documentation to a new language, etc.
[11:47] <dredg> xxorrorxx: free not necessarily meaning gratis.
[11:47] <xxorrorxx> jivera: true ..
[11:48] <JStrike> xxorrorxx : He is an entreprenurial inspration as well as a long time Open Source back. And he's been to space. What is not to be happy about :-)
[11:48] <dredg> xxorrorxx: you could release it at no cost but charge for support
[11:48] <JStrike> Hell, the amount of time my lecturers go on about him...
[11:48] <jivera> xxorrorxx: Cygnus was the first company to profit off of GPL software and they did so by charging fees for support or porting gcc and gdb to new embedded systems.
[11:48] <lypanov> bbl
[11:48] <stoffel> ...or you could just be paid for being fabulous. my stripper friends survive fine using that model
[11:49] <jmullman> sorry to intrude, but what runlevel would I set as default if I did not want X to start automatically?  I've checked the debian docs(as I'm new to Debian) and I have noticed that there is a gdm script that runs in all runlevels 2-5.  Thanks
[11:49] <dredg> xxorrorxx: or build a service around a piece of free software and charge for the use of that software. my employers do this with mailscanner and spamassassin.
[11:49] <xxorrorxx> stoffel: rofl
[11:49] <crimsun> jmullman: there is no runlevel muckery
[11:49] <jivera> xxorrorxx: You might be interested in reading this: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
[11:49] <jmullman> crimsun: oh?  what do you do?
[11:50] <crimsun> jmullman: you would simply ``update-rc.d -f gdm remove''
[11:50] <JStrike> jmullman : 3 should be fine
[11:50] <stoffel> by the way... i'm new to this "linux thing"... how do i change the possible screen refresh rates 
[11:50] <jmullman> ahh, thank you :)
[11:50] <vincent> any french user of ubuntu here ?
[11:51] <mdz> vincent: seb128
[11:51] <seb128> vincent: moi
[11:51] <vincent> seb128: salut
[11:51] <seb128> lu :)
[11:53] <xxorrorxx> jivera: yeah checked it out , interesting but not convinced the model works
[11:53] <jivera> xxorrorxx: You know the saying about not telling the people doing something that it's impossible? :-)
[11:54] <xxorrorxx> jivera: no , never heard that saying
[11:54] <tvon> a lot of people are not convinced the model works
[11:54] <xxorrorxx> jivera: but , I never said it was impossible
[11:54] <JStrike> sabdfl : Anything that SABDFL stands for?
[11:55] <LoneTech> where are the IDE drivers?
[11:55] <mdz> LoneTech: in the kernel packages
[11:55] <mako> JStrike: i think having people try to figure it out is half the fun of it :)
[11:55] <azeem> http://www.bash.org/?400459 <- for all you python lovers
[11:55] <LoneTech> they're completely absent in the installer..
[11:56] <seb128> mdz: we don't have eagle-usb/adsl in warty, any reason ?
[11:56] <jivera> azeem: lol
[11:56] <JStrike> I recon it is a choice of beer thing. South African Breweries Defender For Life
[11:56] <sabdfl> JStrike: oh yes
[11:56] <m_tthew> stoffel: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 might be what you are after
[11:56] <LoneTech> that is, they're missing from the netboot initrd as well as the main iso9660 filesystem.
[11:57] <mdz> seb128: not that I know of; did you propose it for a seed before?
[11:57] <LoneTech> I find this suboptimal
[11:57] <thom> JStrike: jeesh. i didn't think SAB was a choice, more an imposition :-)
[11:57] <mdz> JStrike: that is one of the best I've heard yet
[11:57] <stoffel> thanks, m_tthew... i just found the X config file
[11:57] <seb128> mdz: no, but was talking about this with vincent  ... in fact that's need for internet connexion for a part of adsl users in France
[11:57] <mdz> seb128: have you used the package? is it sane?
[11:57] <m_tthew> stoffel: it's probably advisable to use dpkg-reconfigure instead of doing things by hand
[11:58] <kl_> Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator For Life. lol
[11:58] <m_tthew> stoffel: as I think the top of the config file says
[11:58] <JStrike> thom : Nah. A way of life more than anything :-)
[11:58] <stoffel> especially for a noob like me ;-)
[11:58] <mdz> LoneTech: can you be a bit more specific?
[11:58] <seb128> mdz: I've not used it, but it was maintained by Lo-lan-do and now by migus, and it's in a pretty good state yes
[11:58] <mdz> LoneTech: I've done dozens of Ubuntu installs using IDE devices
[11:59] <thom> evil company :-) 
[11:59] <LoneTech> mdz: udeb packages ide-core-modules and ide-modules are present in /install/initrd.gz. they're not present in /pool or /install/netboot/initrd.gz
[11:59] <seb128> mdz: I can check with Lo-lan-do tomorrow to be sure
[11:59] <LoneTech> I'm now going to attempt installing off a primary mirror rather than the ISO, and see if they're around there
[11:59] <elmo_dc>  /win 2
[12:00] <elmo_dc> meh, sorry