[12:06] <mdz> daniels: did you announce ubuntu19?
[12:54] <daniels> mdz: yes, to -users
[12:54] <daniels> gone now
[01:12] <thom> npmccallum: wassup?
[01:13] <npmccallum> thom: seb128 is taking care of it, thanks
[02:49] <Kamion> mdz: much quieter, thanks, didn't know we'd started this
[02:50] <Kamion> mdz: the d-i builds that are used are all in debian-cd/tools/boot/warty/; if you regard those scripts as configuration files, it's configurable
[02:50] <mdz> could someone send an announcement to the ubuntu-devel list?
[03:52] <mdz> lamont: is linux-restricted-modules happily building?
[03:52] <lamont> nope.  missing build-depends: bzip2
[03:52] <lamont> that'd be 1.1-4
[03:53] <lamont> bzip2 -c fireglcontrol.qt3.gcc3.3.4 >fireglcontrol.qt3.gcc3.3.4.bz2
[03:53] <lamont> /bin/sh: line 1: bzip2: command not found
[03:53] <lamont> make[1] : *** [fireglcontrol.qt3.gcc3.3.4]  Error 127
[03:53] <lamont> but it got that far...
[03:54] <lamont> did daniels get his ftbfs info?
[03:55] <mdz> dunno
[03:55] <mdz> I'll fix l-r-m now
[03:57] <lamont> hanks
[03:57] <lamont> thanks, even
[03:57] <lamont> oh, so samba... do we just want to disable sendfile?
[03:59] <mdz> lamont: if in doubt, we should do what debian and upstream say is the right thing
[03:59] <mdz> lamont: new l-r-m uploaded; please keep an eye on it, people are waiting
[04:03] <mdz> Kamion: still here?
[04:06] <mdz> Kamion: I'm looking for bug #13009
[04:07] <lamont> Kamion: could it possibly be that postfix's postinst gets run before the hostname gets set?
[04:07] <lamont> that would explain it.
[04:08] <mdz> postfix gets installed by debootstrap
[04:08] <mdz> where the hostname is set, as far as I know
[04:09] <lamont> was just able to reproduce the bug (aliases not built), but purge/reinstall postfix and all is well.
[04:09] <lamont> sigh.\
[04:19] <mdz> lamont: l-r-m happy now?
[04:20] <lamont> yep
[04:20] <lamont> and uploade.
[04:20] <lamont> d
[04:21] <lamont> ls lrm still i386 only?
[04:30] <mdz> lamont: yes, for now
[04:31] <mdz> nvidia, at least, comes in amd64 as well
[04:44] <jdub> ahr
[04:44] <jdub> morning
[04:52] <mdz> morning
[04:54] <mdz> jdub: are you going to follow up to Subject: Common Desktop goals
[04:54] <mdz> ?
[04:54] <mdz> jdub: (cross-posted to debian-desktop and ubuntu-devel)
[04:56] <jdub> yeah
[04:56] <jdub> (and userlinux discuss!_
[05:09] <mdz> hah, yeah
[05:10] <jdub> (that's where i first saw it)
[05:10] <jdub> (bleagh)
[05:18] <mdz> reinstall, back later
[05:55] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:05] <jdub> yo fabbione 
[06:15] <fabbione> hey jdub 
[06:15] <fabbione> mdz: are you still around?
[06:36] <fabbione> daniels: you around?
[06:36] <bob2> I think he's netless
[06:36] <bob2> for now
[06:40] <fabbione> ok
[06:51] <daniels> fabbione: hey dude
[06:51] <daniels> i just had to pop out for like 4 hours
[06:51] <daniels> so I started uploading my ubuntu20 stuff just before I left
[06:51] <daniels> it's on xfree86_4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu20.diff.gz now
[06:51] <daniels> (no .orig.tar.gz, just the binaries and diffs and stuff)
[06:57] <fabbione> daniels: what did you add to ubuntu20?
[06:58] <fabbione> because i have the fix for the brasilian keyboard too
[06:59] <fabbione> can you send me the usual interdiff too?
[06:59] <fabbione> so i can resync the repo here?
[07:00] <fabbione> and btw.. since 19 is not in the archive we shouldn't bump to 20
[07:00] <fabbione> (just cosmetic)
[07:00] <fabbione> at the end nobody cares of a missing version
[07:21] <daniels> fabbione: all that's in 20 is my ati stuff (the backport, plus fwpll, plus the #911 resync)
[07:21] <daniels> a patch for s/synaptic/synaptics/ in dexconf
[07:21] <daniels> that's it
[07:22] <daniels> if you drop me the brazilian keyboard diff, i'll merge that and throw you an interdiff
[07:23] <fabbione> just throw me the interdiff and i will merge here
[07:23] <daniels> er, xlibmesa-dri-dbg is uploading right now
[07:23] <daniels> you could have to wait a while :)
[07:23] <fabbione> no problem :-)
[07:24] <daniels> xlibmesa-dri-dbg_4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu20_i386.deb                                                 8% 4236KB   1.4KB/s - stalled -
[07:24] <fabbione> but i think we should let users test ubuntu19 for a little while before pushing another update
[07:24] <daniels> (it's not really stalled, it's just that the uplink is saturated)
[07:24] <daniels> yeah
[07:24] <daniels> i totally agree
[07:24] <daniels> that's why i'm not pimping this yet :) i just want to get this out there to some specific ati people
[07:26] <jdub> daniels: you've done rad ati stuff?
[07:27] <daniels> jdub: r4xx support and tv out on ibooks
[07:27] <jdub> tv out on ibooks!
[07:27] <jdub> oh, not with rage128 though, right?
[07:28] <daniels> jdub: um, that should already work
[07:28] <jdub> oh?
[07:28] <daniels> yeah, with aty128fb
[07:31] <fabbione> daniels: did you check for that RADEONPPL symbol missing on ppc?
[07:31] <fabbione> daniels: otherwise it would be a really good idea to get the packages built on ppc too
[07:33] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, that was me being a tool
[07:33] <daniels> note to self: 'paramaters' is not a word
[07:34] <fabbione> eheh
[07:34] <daniels> it was a one-character fix
[07:34] <daniels> that I just hand-hacked the diff for
[07:38] <fabbione> you suck :P
[07:38] <jdub> daniels: whoa.
[08:09] <fabbione> mdz: ping
[08:15] <fabbione> mdz: deping ;)
[08:38] <mdz> gack
[08:39] <mdz> this ext3 filesystem has a strange layout, parted can't resize, yada yada
[08:40] <mdz> s/ext2/ext3/
[08:40] <mdz> though the filesystem is ext3 and recognised as such
[08:43] <mdz> jdthood: hi
[08:44] <jdthood> Hi there
[08:45] <mdz> I do?
[08:46] <mdz> actually I have questions about parted :-/
[08:46] <mdz> it can't resize my ext3 filesystem, which has brought by install to a screeching halt
[08:48] <jdthood> mdz: I think you are mistaking me for someone else.  :)
[08:49] <mdz> you are not Thomas Hood?
[08:49] <jdthood> mdz: Yes, but I don't have any special knowledge about parted.
[08:50] <mdz> nah, I didn't mean to imply it
[08:50] <mdz> before you /joined I was moaning about my parted problems
[08:52] <jdthood> mdz: The reason I thought you were going to ask me questions about ALSA packaging is that (1) you uploaded alsa-utils 1.0.5-1ubuntu2 and (2) I was involved in putting out the new upstream alsa-utils 1.0.6-1.
[08:54] <jdthood> Congratulations on ubuntu, by the way.
[08:54] <mdz> thanks; have you tried it?
[08:55] <mdz> I don't think we'll be pushing in a new upstream alsa-utils this close to release unless it fixes something important
[08:55] <mdz> though we are considering backporting the kernel stuff
[08:55] <jdthood> mdz: Re: trying ubuntu -- No, I haven't tried it but I will follow its progress.
[08:57] <jdthood> mdz: Re: alsa-utils -- You have to make judgments with one eye on your schedule, I know.  It may be helpful if I tell you a bit about what's been going on.  I was recently recruited to the alsa packaging team.  I have made a few changes that I thought were important to make before sarge.  One of them was fixing alsaconf.  ubuntu has removed alsaconf entirely, so that won't affect you.
[08:58] <mdz> alsaconf scares me
[08:58] <jdthood> mdz: What may interest you more is that I have improved the alsa initscript.  This ships in the alsa-base package, of course.  I am pretty sure that the new script is less buggy than the previous one.
[08:59] <mdz> jdthood: oh, what sort of bugs did you fix?
[08:59] <jdthood> mdz: force-stop is now more useful, for one thing.
[08:59] <mdz> as you probably noticed, we've just made a couple of small changes to it
[09:00] <mdz> the unmuting is probably of general interest, but I wanted to get it right (including multiple cards) before sending it upstream
[09:00] <jdthood> mdz: Yes, unmuting is a headache.
[09:01] <jdthood> mdz: An important change to alsaconf is that it writes an /etc/modprobe.d/sound file that contains an "install" line that makes the module loader call a hook script after loading the sound card driver.  This hook can be used to do "alsactl restore".
[09:02] <jdthood> Thus, alsactl restore happens after module load.
[09:02] <jdthood> We still do "alsactl restore" in the initscript start method too because integral sound card drivers are never loaded by the module loader.
[09:03] <jdthood> The above doesn't work properly on a udev system, though.
[09:04] <jdthood> On a udev system the "alsactl restore" has to be done from a dev.d script.
[09:04] <jdthood> We haven't implemented that yet.  Supporting udev isn't a priority for sarge.
[10:28] <seb128> morning
[10:29] <jdub> hey seb128 
[10:29] <seb128> hey hey jdub 
[10:43] <seb128> jdub: n-c-b 2.8.2, ok for update ?
[10:45] <jdub> yes thanks
[10:48] <seb128> thanks to you :)
[12:32] <fabbione> daniels: how is the upload going?
[12:36] <seb128> jdub: I need to update gnome-cups-manager the current version doesn't include the .mo files ... I think that's ok ? :)
[12:36] <seb128> version = package, a missing line in the .install to fix, that's all
[12:38] <daniels> fabbione: good good
[12:38] <daniels> fabbione: do you need the interdiff now?
[12:38] <daniels> i can throw it to you if you need it
[12:43] <jdub> seb128: sure
[01:02] <Kamion> mdz: #13009? if it's not on bugs.debian.org, we don't have it :(
[01:02] <Kamion> lamont: I'm *fairly* sure the hostname gets set before debootstrap nowadays ...
[01:07] <lamont> Kamion: hrm.
[01:08] <lamont> actually just up for a minute, checking to see if I'm back online or not...
[01:09] <Kamion> lamont: holy crap, man
[01:10] <daniels> lamont: dude, that's inhuman
[01:10] <lamont> well, the 12 year old wanted up early to work on homework...
[01:10] <lamont> sleep is good.
[01:10] <fabbione> Kamion: thanks for the procmail stuff.. i managed to move everything out of MUA's filters
[01:11] <fabbione> daniels: please upload the patch now if you can so we don't desync the trees
[01:11] <Kamion> fabbione: cool. my procmailrc is a bit gnarly, I should tidy it up
[01:11] <fabbione> Kamion: ehehe well.. i didn't use all the bits, but it works fine
[01:11] <lamont> I'm associated with the _other_ hilltop.
[01:11] <fabbione> hey lamont 
[01:11] <fabbione> you are supposed to go back to sleep
[01:11] <daniels> fabbione: ok, i'll start uploading to people.nny.com/~daniels/
[01:12] <lamont> fabbione: check.  later
[01:13] <fabbione> daniels: ok thanks
[01:13] <fabbione> the interdiff should be pretty small anyway
[01:13] <daniels> yeah
[01:14] <daniels> it's ojust 099j, 099k, the dexconf synaptics tuff, and, a resync of 911
[01:14] <daniels> that's tit
[01:15] <daniels> fabbione: interdiff uploading now
[01:17] <daniels> ok, it's up at http://people.no-name-yet.com/~daniels/xfree86/xfree86_4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu19-to-20.diff
[01:24] <fabbione> tahnks
[01:34] <fabbione> daniels: patch is merged
[01:34] <fabbione> daniels: you need to ask somebody to build ubuntu20 on ppc
[01:34] <fabbione> and verify the fix
[01:34] <fabbione> brb
[01:42] <Kamion> mdz: did you get a chance to test with a modified debootstrap script for pcmcia-cs?
[01:43] <jdub> so this wacky acpi stuff
[01:44] <jdub> does the -26 patch mean we'll be able to load DSDT foo to make pooey laptops work?
[01:44] <jdub> "allow config to specify custom DSDT"
[01:44] <jdub> (hope that's not build time)
[01:48] <thom> you append the DSDT to the initrd AIUI
[01:55] <jdub> i thought that was a different patch?
[01:59] <pitti> Yeah, another stupid hal bug found and fixed
[02:00] <jdub> pitti: have you looked at the latest release?
[02:00] <pitti> jdub: not yet
[02:00] <pitti> jdub: we cannot sync that anyway, don't?
[02:00] <pitti> I debugged the stuff on mojo's computer
[02:00] <pitti> (he let me access it as root)
[02:01] <jdub> pitti: if we thought it safe enough and important enough, we probably could sync it.
[02:01] <pitti> jdub: hmm. 0.2.97 had severe regressions
[02:01] <pitti> jdub: I hope that 0.2.98 is better
[02:02] <pitti> jdub: anyway, I don't trust this hal thingy too far, I would really prefer backporting bug fixes instead of syncing
[02:02] <pitti> jdub: or just fixing the things on our own, as we have done until now
[02:02] <jdub> pitti: probably worth checking some of the bugfixes tho :)
[02:02] <pitti> jdub: yes
[02:03] <pitti> jdub: actually I tried to download it yesterday, but my URL is outdated.
[02:03] <pitti> have to google for it, I suppose
[02:03] <jdub> pitti: hal.freedesktop.org?
[02:03] <pitti> jdub: this is impressively, I agree
[02:03] <Kamion> just a shame it seems to break some systems
[02:03] <pitti> jdub: actually I thought I looked there. Anyway, thanks
[02:04] <pitti> jdub: yep, I looked there. It has hal-0.2, from Dec 2003
[02:08] <jdub> hrm, bong
[02:09] <jdub> http://freedesktop.org/~david/dist/
[02:09] <pitti> jdub: thanks!
[02:13] <pitti> jdub: the buffer overflow I just fixed is still present in 0.2.298
[02:13] <pitti> 0.2.98, that is
[02:13] <pitti> jdub: I will send the patch to David
[02:13] <jdub> cool
[02:18] <fabbione> daniels: diff -Naurd xc.orig/ xc > ../debian/patches/991_ubuntu_mga650_hack.diff 
[02:18] <fabbione> daniels: it might even work :-)
[02:19] <pitti> jdub: #1450, request for upload permission
[02:24] <Kamion> mdz: did you intend to remove binutils from Base along with ksymoops?
[02:40] <seb128> jdub: what do you think about #1550 ?
[02:49] <jdub> seb128: i can take that one
[02:50] <seb128> jdub: you don't need, I just want to know what do youn think ... nautilus as default ?
[02:50] <jdub> seb128: yeah, i think the ftp handling is good enough now
[02:50] <jdub> seb128: especially with the keyring support
[02:50] <seb128> ok, I'll make a patch and send it upstream
[02:50] <jdub> thanks :)
[02:50] <seb128> np :)
[04:05] <Kamion> thom: would you be available to do some jigdo stuff for me today?
[04:05] <thom> sure
[04:06] <Kamion> instructions are:
[04:06] <Kamion>   * Make ISO images as normal, and generate jigdo files (using either
[04:06] <Kamion>     mkisofs and jigdo, or mkisofs with the included JTE patch)
[04:06] <Kamion>   * Copy the .jigdo and .template files to a machine exporting the
[04:06] <Kamion>     mirror via HTTP
[04:06] <Kamion>   * On that machine, run mkjigsnap (see the man page) against those
[04:06] <Kamion>     files to generate the needed snapshot ready for download. I'd
[04:06] <Kamion>     suggest http://<mirror>/jigit/ as a download point.
[04:06] <Kamion> I'm working on the first bit now
[04:06] <Kamion> does having an ssh trigger to do steps 2 and 3 sound feasible?
[04:07] <thom> yeah, sounds like the best way
[04:12] <seb128> jdub: gnome-vfs 2.8.1  ... ok for upload ? (dunno if I have to ask for each gnome 2.8.n releases :)
[04:13] <Kamion> hey Sledge
[04:13] <Sledge_> hey guys
[04:14] <jdub> seb128: ...
[04:14] <seb128> jdub: ....
[04:14] <seb128> :p
[04:14] <jdub> seb128: yes, ok
[04:14] <Kamion> so, need to make debian-cd on little generate jigdos, and therefore need to give it some URLs
[04:14] <Sledge_> Kamion: yup
[04:14] <jdub> seb128: in general, it's okay unless you think a change is controversial
[04:15] <seb128> ok
[04:15] <jdub> seb128: or too big
[04:15] <Kamion> Sledge_: should I set the fallback URL to http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/cdimage/jigit/, then?
[04:15] <Kamion> (assuming that's where we're going to put the snapshot archive)
[04:15] <seb128> don't worry, I don't make quick upload of new versions without testing :)
[04:15] <Kamion> seb128: aww
[04:15] <Sledge_> Kamion: I think you need to add a /snapshot/ in there too
[04:15] <jdub> seb128: ehhhhxcellent :)
[04:15] <Sledge_> just checking
[04:16] <seb128> :)
[04:17] <Kamion> Sledge_: hm, presumably we'd want to have a snapshot tree per release; we want to keep the one for warty around when we're developing hoary
[04:17] <Sledge_> yup
[04:17] <Kamion> so maybe http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/cdimage/jigit/warty/snapshot/
[04:17] <Kamion> yay long URLs :)
[04:17] <Sledge_> yes, something like that
[04:18] <Sledge_> the mkjigsnap script is set up to create dated snapshots in fact
[04:18] <jdub> seb128: upstream are killing wifi applet, using netstatus instead ;)
[04:18] <Kamion> Sledge_: do I leave JIGDOFALLBACKPATH unset? I guess mkjigsnap creates that
[04:18] <Sledge_> so the easiest way to use that would be to put symlinks in
[04:18] <seb128> jdub: yes, I've read that
[04:18] <Sledge_> Kamion: JIGDOFALLBACKPATH is used when creating the jigdos in the first place
[04:19] <Sledge_> mkjigsnap reads that jigdo rather than modifying it
[04:19] <Sledge_> the JIGDOFALLBACKPATH can be added by hand easily, in fact
[04:19] <Kamion> right, but it looks like debian-cd creates a hardlink tree yourself if you set that
[04:19] <Kamion> s/yourself/itself/
[04:19] <Sledge_> yes, it does
[04:19] <Kamion> JIGDOFALLBACKURLS I understand I need to set
[04:19] <Sledge_> gah, sorry
[04:19] <Sledge_> misparsed what you wrote
[04:20] <Sledge_> JIGDOFALLBACKPATH doesn't need to be set unless you're going to generate the images on the mirror
[04:20] <Sledge_> otherwise it wastes time creating a snapshot tree on the CD build machine
[04:21] <Sledge_> JIGDOFALLBACKURLS wants to point to the right place so that people downloading the jigdo bits by hand get the right stuff
[04:21] <Kamion> export JIGDOFALLBACKURLS="Ubuntu=http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/cdimage/jigit/$CODENAME/snapshot/"
[04:21] <Kamion> let's try that, then
[04:21] <Sledge_> yup
[04:21] <Kamion> I think I'll need to frob debian-cd a bit to deal with the Ubuntu label though
[04:22] <Sledge_> ok
[04:22] <Kamion> leaving JIGDOINCLUDEURLS unset until I figure out what needs to happen there ...
[04:22] <Sledge_> you probably don't want it anyway
[04:23] <Kamion> well, we do have a few mirrors
[04:23] <Sledge_> it's in case you want to include a standard block in all the jigdo places
[04:23] <Sledge_> ok
[04:24] <Sledge_> Kamion: the normal setting tat manty uses is JIGDOFALLBACKURLS="Debian=http://gluck.debian.org/cdimage/snapshot/cd/$ARCH/Debian/
[04:24] <Sledge_> on gluck
[04:24] <Sledge_> you may need to s/Debian/Ubuntu/ on that
[04:25] <Sledge_> or set it to Ubuntu=http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/cdimage/jigit/$CODENAME/snapshot/Ubuntu
[04:25] <Kamion> I was thinking of dropping /Ubuntu from the path actually ...
[04:25] <Sledge_> ah, ok
[04:25] <Kamion> we don't have a Non-US equivalent
[04:25] <Kamion> but yeah, I've done s/Debian/Ubuntu/ on tools/jigdo_create
[04:25] <Sledge_> fine
[04:26] <Kamion> just trying build.sh i386 now
[04:27] <Kamion> jigdo-file --cache=/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/tmp/jigdo-cache.db make-template --force --files-from=/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/tmp/jigdofilelist --image=/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/debian-cd/i386/warty-i386-1.raw --jigdo=/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/debian-cd/i386/warty-i386-1.jigdo --template=/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/debian-cd/i386/warty-i386-1.template --merge=/srv/c
[04:27] <Kamion> that's a command-and-a-half
[04:27] <Sledge_> :-)
[04:31] <thom> yow
[04:34] <Kamion> Sledge_: any way to convince it not to look at installer-$(arch-that-isn't-the-current-one)?
[04:34] <Kamion> Match of `dists/warty/main/daily-installer-amd64/20040801ubuntu13.0.20040918/doc/INSTALLATION-HOWTO' at offset 14006272
[04:35] <Kamion> Match of `dists/warty/main/daily-installer-i386/20040801ubuntu13.0.20040918/doc/manual/cs/apa.html' at offset 14024704
[04:35] <Sledge_> remove those from the jigdofilelist
[04:35] <Kamion> ah, right
[04:35] <Kamion> I think I might well end up switching to JTE, this isn't so fast ...
[04:35] <Sledge_> :-)
[04:35] <Sledge_> you noticed...
[04:36] <Kamion> it's bearable for daily builds certainly, but our preview release from start of CD builds through downloads and testing to release took an hour and five minutes
[04:36] <Sledge_> ok
[04:37] <Kamion> I didn't realize earlier that I was going to be under quite such time pressure :)
[04:37] <Kamion> anyway, will start out with plain jigdo and speed it up later
[04:46] <Kamion> Sledge_: what does the Filename= field in the .jigdo do?
[04:47] <Sledge_> it specifies the default output filename for the .iso file
[05:32] <thom> Kamion: btw, there's a file called make-torrent.sh in my ~ on little, and bittornado is installed
[05:32] <thom> Kamion: so you can integrate BT into the build too :-)
[05:33] <Kamion> thom: awesome, will wait until after I've finished my side of the jigdo stuff though :)
[05:33] <thom> sure
[05:34] <thom> mdz_: are you happy for me to upload the new bittornado to warty? (upgrade from 0.2.0 to 0.3.0)
[05:34] <mdz_> thom: universe, right? sure
[05:34] <thom> mdz_: nod
[05:36] <Kamion> mdz_: have you been following the parted stuff on #ubuntu?
[05:36] <Sledge_> Kamion: how's the jigdo thing going?
[05:37] <Kamion> Sledge_: just been rebuilding a couple of times to try to get all the filenames right, usual debian-cd tediousness
[05:37] <Kamion> um, "tedium"
[05:37] <Sledge_> :-)
[05:37] <Sledge_> sorry, that should be :-(
[05:37] <Kamion> mdz_: it looks like we may have to upgrade to parted 1.6.11 plus a Debian patch to fix it, which involves a soname change
[05:40] <sivang> bittornado is a full fledged BT gui?
[05:40] <Kamion> mdz_: the current version in unstable contains all our fixes, so in principle it's syncable, but I will have to review the entire diff
[05:45] <thom> sivang: no
[05:45] <Kamion> Sledge_: what's the SNAPSHOT= thing in the generated .conf file
[05:45] <Kamion> Sledge_: er, sorry, pressed Enter too soon
[05:45] <thom> it's much faster than bittorrent
[05:45] <Kamion> Sledge_: what's the SNAPSHOT= path in the generated .conf file relative to?
[05:46] <Sledge_> Kamion: relative to the place where the <foo>.conf is found
[05:47] <Kamion> Sledge_: ah, I think I see how to lay it out now
[05:48] <Sledge_> ok
[05:48] <mdz_> Kamion: no, I have been offline a great deal
[05:48] <mdz_> Kamion: what breakage does 1.6.11 fix?
[05:48] <mdz_> Kamion: if it fixes the "this ext2 filesystem has a rather strange layout", I might be sold
[05:49] <Kamion> mdz_: destruction of partition tables generated by modern versions of Windows
[05:49] <mdz_> eek
[05:49] <mdz_> elmo: I removed it from base and forgot to add it back to supported
[05:49] <elmo> ok
[05:49] <sivang> thom : conflicts with bittorent. just tried it and it "killed" the original client
[05:50] <Kamion> Sledge_: is there any way to have the final .jigdo and .template files generated on little (our actual CD image build machine) rather than on auckland (the machine where mkjigsnap's going to be run)?
[05:50] <thom> sivang: yep, the programs all have the same name
[05:50] <mdz_> elmo: fixed
[05:50] <Kamion> Sledge_: hm, actually, never mind, I'm being confused
[05:50] <azeem> sivang: this is fixed in unstable, AFAIK
[05:50] <Sledge_> Kamion: absolutely, that's exactly what I was expecting you to do
[05:50] <Kamion> mdz_: did you intend to remove binutils from base too?
[05:50] <mdz_> Kamion: it should go away on its own, shouldn't it?
[05:51] <mdz_> I think it was only there for ksymoops
[05:51] <Kamion> ok, as long as that's what you intended
[05:51] <Kamion> I saw it and went "eek" :)
[05:51] <Kamion> will need a new debootstrap upload, then
[05:51] <Kamion> ack/nack?
[05:51] <mdz_> ack
[05:53] <sivang> thom : we'd better change them? it it reasonable for someone to have both clients present?
[05:53] <sivang> thom : *is
[05:53] <doko> npmccallum: I see you changed the bash prompt in skel.bashrc, but not in etc.bashrc. what was the reason for the change?
[05:54] <Kamion> thom: could you grab little:~cjwatson/jigit/mkjigsnap?
[05:55] <thom> sivang: as azeem said, it's fixed in the version i'm uploading
[05:56] <Kamion> thom: I think it needs to be run as 'mkjigsnap -n warty-i386 -m <path to archive mirror> -o <path to cdimage mirror>/jigit/warty -j <path to cdimage mirror>/daily/current/warty-$(arch).jigdo -t <path to cdimage mirror>/daily/current/warty-$(arch).template -k Ubuntu', for arch in amd64 i386 powerpc
[05:56] <npmccallum> doko: the only difference I can see is the ':', right?  Probably just a typo...
[05:57] <thom> Kamion: 'k, will look in a sec
[05:57] <doko> ok. then I'll sync that. thanks for the color prompt anyway.
[05:58] <Kamion> thom: I think you'll also need to change the cdimage archvsync trigger to exclude jigit from the sync, otherwise it'll get trashed
[06:02] <npmccallum> doko: yeah, I hate bw prompts -- when you do ls 2x, you cant tell where one ls ended and one begain
[06:05] <doko> is there any reason that we don't source /etc/bash.bashrc from /etc/profile? I'd like to sync that with the skeleton files
[06:14] <npmccallum> doko: I have no idea
[06:33] <Kamion> thom: ok, there are now .jigdo and .template files in /cdimage/daily/current/ which should be usable
[06:39] <Sledge_> Kamion: how do I go about getting the jigit package into ubuntu?
[06:40] <Kamion> Sledge_: in general, mail ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com; will need to convince mdz/jdub
[06:40] <Kamion> Sledge_: once we've demonstrated it to work with our ISOs it should be a much easier sell
[06:41] <Sledge_> of course
[06:43] <Kamion> anyway, I think the ball's in thom's court for the time being, I'll wait until he bounces it back to me :)
[06:43] <Sledge_> :-)
[06:44] <Sledge_> Kamion/thom: can you mail me when the bits are in place on archive.ubuntulinux.org so I can d/l and test too?
[06:45] <Kamion> Sledge_: will do
[06:45] <thom> yep.
[06:45] <thom> just having some tea
[06:45] <elmo> oi
[06:45] <thom> and celebrating australia losing to england at cricket
[06:45] <elmo> what the hell are you guys running on auckland
[06:46] <Kamion> uh, not me?
[06:46] <elmo> no, talking about running I mean
[06:46] <Kamion> elmo: hardlink snapshot of the archive at CD generation time so that jigdo is even possible
[06:47] <elmo> we need to not be doing stuff on auckland - the torrent stuff was a mistake that happened 'cos it was at the last minute. 
[06:47] <Kamion> elmo: correct, all the jigdo stuff will happen on little, and bittorrent is being moved there
[06:47] <elmo> kamion: what needs the harlinks?  jidgo server or jidgo user?  does the snapshot need to be publicly available?
[06:47] <elmo> kamion: okay, if it's happening on little, what's thom doing?  his r00t powers scare me :P
[06:48] <Kamion> elmo: in order to do a jigdo download, the client *must* have access to a fallback snapshot of the archive at the point when the CD was generated
[06:48] <Kamion> elmo: most of the downloads happen from a local mirror, but you have to have the fallback snapshot otherwise the download will fail as soon as anything in the archive changes
[06:48] <elmo> kamion: so jidgo users all come hit up our BW?  reeeesult
[06:49] <Kamion> elmo: no more than they would by grabbing the ISO, usually much less
[06:49] <elmo> yeah
[06:49] <Kamion> (this is the same as what gets done on gluck, BTW)
[06:49] <elmo> I thought most of the cdimage stuff had moved to maswan?
[06:50] <Kamion> the jigdos are built on gluck; if maswan syncs the snapshot archives too, it's his bandwidth I guess
[06:50] <Kamion> see gluck:/org/cdimage.debian.org/www/snapshot/
[06:52] <Kamion> elmo: the thing I wanted done on auckland is little:~cjwatson/jigit/mkjigsnap, which is Sledge's script to hardlink-snapshot an archive; I need to have auckland run it after it finishes the cdimage archvsync
[06:53] <Kamion> (it's a bit of a race technically, but as long as the CD build time doesn't exceed the archive's StayOfExecution then it works)
[06:53] <Sledge_> Kamion: how long are you thinking of keeping each snapshot around?
[06:54] <elmo> SOE is a day
[06:55] <Kamion> well, we're building stuff daily, so absolutely not more than a week except for say the warty release jigdo
[06:55] <Sledge_> ok
[06:55] <Kamion> or sounder-test images I guess :-/
[06:56] <Sledge_> the mkjigsnap code deliberately creates dated snapshots, so it should be easy to clean up old ones with rm -rf <DATE>
[06:56] <Kamion> elmo: are we still in "AARGH NO RUN AWAY" territory?
[06:58] <Sledge_> time to go home and eat...
[07:00] <elmo> kamion: one sec
[07:21] <Kamion> thom: I think I've got bittorrent integration working now
[07:22] <Kamion> pretty easy once I had the script
[07:23] <sivang> Kamion : how much time after a package has been uploaded until it's on the archive for downloading?
[07:24] <Kamion> it's better to direct questions to the channel rather than to me personally
[07:25] <Kamion> sivang: anyway, the archive's "cron.daily" runs once every half-an-hour, source uploads get installed then, after each cron.daily run the buildds pick it up and then the binaries get installed at the next cron.daily after that
[07:25] <sivang> ofcourse :)
[07:25] <Kamion> sivang: so absolute minimum 30-something minutes
[07:25] <sivang> ok, thanks
[07:25] <sivang> yeah. figured that.
[07:25] <sivang> tnx
[07:40] <Kamion> elmo: who's the admin of the Italian mirror, and shouldn't that mirror be listed in Archive on the wiki?
[07:40] <elmo> kamion: md
[07:40] <elmo> and probably sure, he just mentioned it on irc so it got added to the website by jane/lu/someone
[07:43] <Kamion> seems to be just a mirror of the preview release
[07:43] <Kamion> it doesn't have MD5SUMS which is why my attention got drawn to it
[07:51] <Kamion> thom: does the bittorrent tracker need any extra magic?
[07:51] <Kamion> thom: I've tried starting a download, but it's just sitting at "connecting to peers"
[07:53] <Kamion> thom: or do things get strange when the client is behind NAT?
[08:05] <thom> it doesn't like nat at all
[08:06] <thom> well, unless you can forward the ports correctly
[08:10] <thom> Kamion: hrm, i think the mirror script is going to have to kick off the bt seeders
[08:11] <Kamion> thom: what are those?
[08:11] <thom> you have to have something to seed the tracker, ie you run a bt client on the local machine to get the file into the torrent
[08:12] <daniels> elmo: dude, thankyou so very much
[08:12] <Kamion> thom: that really wants to be done on auckland rather than little, right?
[08:12] <daniels> elmo: source-only uploads absolutely rock my world
[08:13] <daniels> elmo: so, I uploaded i386+source+all xfree86 to rookery (not including the orig)
[08:13] <daniels> elmo: 18 hours on, it's just finished
[08:13] <thom> Kamion: yep
[08:14] <thom> so the mirror script would need to kick them off when it finishes the rsync
[08:15] <thom> (we pushed 1500 i386 isos of the preview via BT, btw :-) )
[08:16] <Kamion> nice
[08:16] <Kamion> thom: that's entirely auckland-side, isn't it? little doesn't know when the rsync is finished
[08:17] <thom> yep
[08:17] <thom> but little logs in to the archvsync user and runs a script auckland side to run the rsync, doesn't it. i'm saying we tack it on that
[08:24] <Kamion> thom: right, absolutely
[08:24] <Kamion> I've never seen that script
[08:28] <thom> Kamion: it's exactly what you'd expect :-)
[08:37] <Kamion> thom: also, presumably the torrents need to be regenerated when I copy a daily build to release
[08:37] <Kamion> thom: so it isn't just 'cp -a' any more
[08:54] <Mithrandir> npmccallum: what TZ are you in?
[08:58] <npmccallum> Mithrandir: EST
[08:58] <npmccallum> Mithrandir: my hours are a little funky though (not too bad)
[08:58] <Mithrandir> that's UTC-5 or so?
[08:58] <Mithrandir> ok, I'm at fairly-normal CEST.
[08:59] <Mithrandir> but I prefer to do work-work in the evening, so if UTC16-ish is ok with you?
[09:00] <npmccallum> Mithrandir: depends on the day, but generally
[09:00] <npmccallum> Mithrandir: check my time schedule on the company wiki
[09:00] <Mithrandir> ok
[09:03] <npmccallum> Mithrandir: I'm going to run to the store, should be back in about 10 if you need anything
[09:03] <Mithrandir> sure, I have a problem with evo I need to track down..
[09:03] <Mithrandir> man, I love corba. :/
[09:04] <npmccallum> what is the best way to download the entire archive (warty/main)?
[09:05] <Mithrandir> rsync?
[09:06] <npmccallum> I just only want the newest stuff, I was wondering if there was some debian tool to do it
[09:06] <Mithrandir> you can use debmirror or some other mirroring tool as well
[09:17] <Mithrandir> perhaps parted is busted?
[09:19] <Kamion> probably
[09:19] <Kamion> or partman, who knows :)
[09:20] <Kamion> kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-2-386 root=/dev/hda6 ro vga=771 acpi=force quiet splash
[09:20] <Kamion> hooray, the user-params stuff works for me
[09:48] <sivang> Is there a specific doc for PXE install for ubuntu? or plain 'o debian would suffice?
[09:52] <sivang> lamont_r : it made it. about the buildlogs right?
[09:53] <lamont_r> yeah
[09:53] <lamont_r> which is good, since my router appears to have not survived the power hit this morning... :(
[09:54] <sivang> ohh, i am going to build myself a ubuntu router , you want me thorugh in another for you ? (trying to encourage lamont_r)
[09:55] <lamont_r> that's probably what I'll do - I have a more hardened x86 box, will probably switch from the hppa router to an ubuntu-powered x86 box
[09:55] <lamont_r> back on in a while.
[09:56] <sivang> lamont_r : you feeling better since that nasty virus? I'm on pills for the last couple of days. only that fixed my dizziness
[09:57] <lamont_r> running at about 80-90% I'd guess
[09:58] <sivang> if only we could patch those..:)
[09:58] <lamont_r> yeah
[10:00] <lamont_r> anyway, back on in a while
[10:14] <doko> Mithrandir, mdz: is there an overview, which packages use spell checking? or just get the reverse dependencies on aspell/ispell/myspell?
[10:15] <Mithrandir> doko: i$language is the norm for ispell at least, aspell-$langcode and myspell-$langcode seems to be the norm for those
[10:18] <mdz> doko: the ones which are high priority are evolution, openoffice and mozilla-thunderbird
[10:19] <mdz> doko: let's say evolution and openoffice, those are in desktop
[10:19] <mdz> followed by mozilla-thunderbird, abiword, and other stuff in Supported
[10:19] <mdz> I believe gaim also does spell checking
[10:19] <doko> ok, that's a starting point.
[10:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: it does.
[10:19] <Mithrandir> spellchecking should Just Work for those, in major languages
[10:19] <Mithrandir> ?
[10:19] <Mithrandir> we need to install extra dictionaries based on $LANG
[10:19] <mdz> but does it?  please check
[10:20] <mdz> we need to get a handle on which are working and which are not, and which spell checking libraries they use
[10:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, I'm talking about the goal, not the current state. :)
[10:20] <mdz> and ensure that at least the english dictionary is installed by default
[10:20] <mdz> then we can think about ways to get additional dictionaries
[10:20] <mdz> for warty, I am not sure if it is feasible to select them at install time automatically
[10:20] <Mithrandir> we need to check that the dictionaries work properly as well
[10:20] <mdz> we may need to choose between including them by default, or requiring that they be installed later
[10:21] <Mithrandir> yeah
[10:21] <doko> dictionaries: these are the w<language> packages? or the aspell-$LANG, ispell-$LANG packages
[10:22] <Mithrandir> doko: w$lang is just wordlists
[10:24] <mdz> fabbione: here?
[10:39] <sivang> mdz : from how it looks curerntly, most 2004 universe DSAs would be fixed by a sync from sid. :) (halfway finished)
[10:46] <mdz> sivang: great, so it all comes down to whether they can be synched without changing main
[10:46] <mdz> thom: ping?
[10:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: you are going to want to kill me.
[10:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: evolution needs a TLS enabled glibc.
[10:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: on amd64?
[10:47] <sivang> mdz : yes, however i havn't still reviewed 2002 and 2003, but 2004 is highest priority.
[10:47] <thom> mdz: hi
[10:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes.
[10:48] <mdz> thom: hey. what's the good word on firefox?
[10:48] <sivang> mdz : that is, the universe relavent parts.
[10:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: or rather, in general
[10:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: our glibc is TLS-enabled on i686 (with libc6-i686), is it not?
[10:48] <mdz> Mithrandir: is it only a matter of turning some bits on, or something worse?
[10:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's always TLS-enabled on i686
[10:48] <Mithrandir> mdz: well.. it hasn't been _that_ much tested..
[10:48] <Mithrandir> (on amd64)
[10:49] <thom> mdz: i've got a few more rejects to clean up, and then a lot more testing
[10:49] <mdz> Mithrandir: TLS is something which is only used when the application specifically uses it, is it not?
[10:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: it uses the DB backend with DB_THREAD and that requires "fast mutexes" to be available.
[10:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: nope.
[10:49] <Mithrandir> mdz: you can turn it off with LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4.1
[10:49] <mdz> thom: what's the story with the localisation?  I was thinking that even if they are outdated upstream, we should relax the deps and at least get partial translations
[10:49] <thom> (mostly because they seem to have funted with the l10n support since the last release)
[10:50] <mdz> thom: then it will feed into the warty translation effort
[10:50] <mdz> s/warty/ubuntu/
[10:50] <Mithrandir> mdz: another option is to rewrite the backend for evo.  (No, I'm not doing that)
[10:50] <thom> mdz: that's what i'm planning to test; i'm not sure how much they've changed - hopefully not so much that the old packages won't work at all
[10:50] <mdz> thom: ah, I see
[10:50] <mdz> Mithrandir: the glibc changes should only affect amd64, right?
[10:50] <mdz> (please say yes)
[10:50] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, they should
[10:51] <Mithrandir> it's a very trivial change to the source package, and I can test it for a few days before we upload if you want that)
[10:51] <mdz> Mithrandir: please do test it, of course :-)
[10:51] <Mithrandir> obviously, yes.
[10:51] <Mithrandir> :)
[10:54] <thom> 'night
[11:08] <mdz> Kamion: how does the pcmcia-cs magic work?  does it use laptop-mode, or something else?
[11:10] <Kamion> mdz: it tries to start up pcmcia, then looks in /sys/class/pcmcia_socket
[11:10] <mdz> hmm
[11:10] <Kamion> (it needs to start up pcmcia anyway)
[11:10] <mdz> Kamion: I had forgotten that pcmcia starts during the installer too...
[11:11] <mdz> Kamion: I wonder how it is that it worked in d-i but failed during a normal boot (https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=581)
[11:11] <Kamion>        -f     Foreground:  do not fork and run as a daemon until after config
[11:11] <Kamion>               uring any cards that are already present.
[11:11] <Kamion> it uses that option, maybe that's relevant
[11:12] <Kamion> (cardmgr)
[11:12] <mdz> that's exactly the opposite of what I'd expect, how weird
[11:12] <mdz> the problem in #581 was that it sat there in the foreground forever
[11:12] <Kamion> although actually apparently that's to avoid a race condition
[11:13] <mdz> if it's harmless to start pcmcia under d-i, it should be harmless to install it too
[11:13] <mdz> but given the symptoms, it does sound like this would solve the problem anyway
[11:13] <Kamion>                 CARDMGR_OPTS="-f" /etc/init.d/pcmcia start </dev/null 3<&0 2>&1 \
[11:13] <Kamion>                         | logger -t hw-detect
[11:13] <Kamion> that's the actual invocation
[11:14] <mdz> I have (remote) access to the machine where it was failing before
[11:15] <mdz> anyway, in the interest of solving this upstream's way, I'm OK with pcmcia-cs moving to ShipSeed
[11:15] <Kamion> it definitely doesn't have PCMCIA? that would rule out having any cards that are causing problems
[11:17] <Kamion>     - Add a new template, hw-detect/start_pcmcia, as a kind of workaround for
[11:17] <Kamion>       systems where starting pcmcia hangs the system (Dell inspirons..).
[11:17] <Kamion> (ddetect 0.87)
[11:17] <Kamion> hw-detect/start_pcmcia=false is documented in the boot screens as a workaround for systems where starting PCMCIA crashes
[11:18] <Kamion> there's no similar workaround for post-install if we have pcmcia-cs in Base, though
[11:18] <Kamion> I think the submitter of #581 must just have been lucky pre-reboot :-/
[11:19] <Kamion> so yeah, I think there are enough arguments
[11:19] <mdz> I'm fairly certain it doesn't have pcmcia
[11:19] <mdz> hmmm
[11:20] <mdz> unfortunately, someone uses that machine as their primary desktop to do work
[11:20] <mdz> so I've been trying to schedule a time when I could (potentially) break it for testing
[11:22] <Mithrandir> we don't ship any 2.4 amd64 kernels?
[11:25] <Kamion> Mithrandir: no
[11:25] <Mithrandir> good
[11:25] <Kamion> *are* there any 2.4 amd64 kernels? :) I thought 2.4 was totally unsupported on amd64
[11:25] <Mithrandir> there are kernels, but nobody should use them
[11:26] <Kamion> in fact, we don't have any 2.4 kernels in supported for any architecture
[11:26] <Mithrandir> I'm removing support for < 2.6 for glibc for amd64, that's why I was asking
[11:40] <mdz> Kamion: ubuntu-base needs to be added to base; do you have an upload pending or shall I do it?
[11:42] <Kamion> no upload pending, but I'm used to debootstrap uploads and can do it easily
[11:42] <Kamion> I should put my magic autoupdate script somewhere
[11:42] <Kamion> half of it's in the debootstrap package ...
[11:43] <Kamion> the other half relies on germinate though
[11:45] <mdz> Kamion: ok, I'll leave it to you, then
[11:45] <Kamion> mdz: hm, you closed that util-linux bug with "we haven't fixed this yet", but LaMont backported that fix to warty already
[11:45] <mdz> Kamion: he did?  he didn't close the bug
[11:45] <Kamion>  util-linux (2.12-7ubuntu3) warty; urgency=low
[11:45] <Kamion>  .
[11:45] <Kamion>    * Incorporate patch from Samuel Thibault via Debian.  Closes warty#468
[11:46] <mdz> 468   	maj   	P2   	Oth   	lamont.jones@canonical.com   	ASSI   	  	delay in spawning new getty after logging out on console
[11:46] <mdz> Kamion: if you have the bug number handy, please reopen
[11:48] <Kamion> mdz: what sort of things do you foresee going into ubuntu-base?
[11:49] <Kamion> mdz: done
[11:49] <mdz> Kamion: the little script to enable universe, an upgrade tool for warty->hoary if we need one, stuff like that
[11:50] <Kamion> ok
[11:52] <Mithrandir> mdz: 1545 will be fun to track down when I don't have such a box. :/
[11:52] <Kamion> mdz: ubuntu-base doesn't seem to have built
[11:53] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'll forward you mail from Robert and Goswin if either of them replies
[11:53] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks.