elmomdz: do you need me to do anything else WRT #1080 or can I remove myself from the Cc list?12:01
mdzelmo: I think you can safely remove yourself12:02
elmohey, has anyone got a smart bookmarks thing for warty BTS?12:02
elmomdz: k, thanks 12:02
elmo[+bye ;)] 12:02
=== Kamion has a ubug keyword
elmoI don't understand #1561 - it WFM(tm)?12:04
elmoI mean I can "fix" it, but I'd like to know why it's broken for you guys12:04
Kamionwhat would "fixing" involve?12:04
mdzmizar:[~]  host home.ubuntu.com12:04
mdzhome.ubuntu.com         CNAME   www.no-name-yet.com12:04
mdzwww.no-name-yet.com does not exist, try again12:04
elmoshiri 23:04 ~ % host home.ubuntu.com12:05
elmohome.ubuntu.com is an alias for www.no-name-yet.com.12:05
elmowww.no-name-yet.com has address
mdzmizar:[~]  host www.no-name-yet.com12:05
mdzwww.no-name-yet.com does not exist, try again12:05
elmokamion: not CNAME-ing12:05
elmotitan.is.co.za (          www.no-name-yet.com ->
elmodemeter.is.co.za (           www.no-name-yet.com ->
elmojupiter.is.co.za (          www.no-name-yet.com ->
elmoall 3 NSes are giving me the right answer?12:06
Mithrandirdon't use host for debugging DNS, use dig. :)12:07
elmoor 'dnstracer -o'12:07
elmo[for slightly less "REAL MEN USE CAT < /DEV/AUDIO" maschoism ;-)] 12:07
Mithrandirnever heard of dnstracer before12:08
elmomdz: what's dnstracer/dig saying for you?12:08
mdzmizar:[~]  host www.no-name-yet.com demeter.is.co.za12:09
mdzwww.no-name-yet.com     A
mdzmizar:[~]  host www.no-name-yet.com jupiter.is.co.za12:09
mdzwww.no-name-yet.com     A
mdzmizar:[~]  host www.no-name-yet.com titan.is.co.za  12:09
mdzwww.no-name-yet.com     A
mdzmizar:[~]  host www.no-name-yet.com12:09
mdzwww.no-name-yet.com does not exist, try again12:09
mdzwhat the hell12:09
mdzelmo: dnstracer is useless, dig gives the same results as host12:09
mdzno-name-yet.com.        4759    IN      SOA     ns0.blackcatnetworks.co.uk. hostmaster.blackcatnetworks.co.uk. 2004081000 21600 7200 604800 8640012:10
mdzdig returns that for an SOA12:10
elmowhat's useless about dnstracer? *pout*12:10
mdzshould that be ns1.is.co.za?12:10
mdzrather than ns0.blackcatnetworks.co.uk?12:10
elmoyeah, it certainly shouldn't be blackcat12:10
mdzis the domain moving/has it moved recently?12:10
elmono, I never bothered12:10
mdzprobably the SOA is still cached12:10
elmosince we migrated away from it12:10
mdzand yet they've deleted the zone12:10
mdzquerying the .za servers gives a reasonable SOA12:11
elmowho's deleted it?12:11
elmoblackcat have never hosted nny.com12:11
mdzthen where did I get that SOA record from?12:11
mdzor was that in the zone even though it was served from is.co.za?12:12
elmoI've no idea where you got it from12:13
elmotsig.c:293: REQUIRE(targetp != ((void *)0) && *targetp == ((void *)0)) failed.12:15
elmozsh: abort      nsupdate12:15
elmorock on12:15
mdzso canonical.com and ubunutlinux.org are served by blackcatnetworks, and nny by is.co.za?12:16
elmowe have dynamic dns setup with blackcat, so all our critical domains are with them12:16
mdzit's very odd12:17
mdz<everything else>.no-name-yet.com resolves12:17
mdzit's specifically www which is fucked12:17
mdzhere's the lovely dnstracer output:12:17
mdzmizar:[~]  dnstracer -o www.no-name-yet.com 12:18
mdzTracing to www.no-name-yet.com via, timeout 15 seconds12:18
mdz192.168.0.1 ( 12:18
mdzwhich queries my local DNS server and then quits12:18
elmooh, that's interestingly broken12:18
elmoanyway, it could be that I broke the CNAME of home.ubuntu.com but since 'update delete' is broken.. well I'm a little stuck12:18
mdzit does the same with any other server I point it to12:18
mdzhmm, not any12:19
mdzbut my ISPs12:19
elmomdz: can we import #269157?  I'd like to see if it can be fixed before warty as it'd suck to ship with an nsupdate that's add-only12:22
pittimdz: Today I uploaded a new hal package to fix a buffer overflow (#1450); nautilus-cd-burner contains exactly the same flaw, can I upload a new version?12:26
pittimdz: it's already fixed in upstream's cvs, he also read my message on utopia12:26
mdzelmo: imported12:32
mdzpitti: yes12:33
pittimdz: interdiff is www.piware.de/ncb.segfault.diff12:33
pittimdz: okay, thanks12:33
npmccallumcan dpkg extract a single file from a binary package?12:35
elmodon't think so12:36
elmoyou can dpkg -x to a tmpdir tho12:36
mdznpmccallum: indirectly12:36
pittinpmccallum: you can do that manually using ar12:37
mdznpmccallum: dpkg --fsys-tarfile | tar 12:37
elmo       --fsys-tarfile12:37
elmo              Extracts  the filesystem tree data from a binary package and sends it to standard output in tar format.  Together with tar(1) this can12:37
elmo              be used to extract a particular file from a package archive.12:37
Mithrandirnpmccallum: ar pf foo.deb data.tar.gz | tar xvzf ./file12:37
npmccallumgreat, thanks!12:37
mdzKamion: is there any way to convince parted to resize a partition, ignoring the filesystem?12:46
mdzparted doesn't know how to resize my root fs on this machine12:46
mdzbut resize2fs does12:46
mdzso I could shrink the filesystem first, and then the partition, if I could convince a tool to do the latter12:46
Mithrandirfdisk can do it12:46
mdzfdisk will let me _delete_ it and re-add it; that's much scarier :-)12:47
npmccallumthats all parted does when it resizes it12:47
npmccallumall you are doing is removing the sector referances from the partition table12:47
Kamionnpmccallum: parted resizing the filesystem too12:48
npmccallumI know12:48
mdzparted is paranoid about it12:48
=== jdub reads meeting logs
mdzfdisk is shoot-yourself-in-the-foot compliant12:48
npmccallumI meant that parted does the two steps seperately12:48
Kamionmdz: not that I know of, but I'm no parted guru12:48
npmccallumthe partition table really just tells the os the bounds of the FS12:48
npmccallummdz: you can't force parted to do it12:49
npmccallummdz: though, you can install pyparted and have access to the lower level api12:49
npmccallummdz:  you could do it that way ;)12:49
mdzparted works in megabytes, resize2fs in filesystem blocks (4k), and fdisk in cylinders12:50
mdzthat is a recipe for MDZ DATA GO BYE-BYE12:50
=== jdub fears single universe with non-free stuff
npmccallummdz: only if you do a fsck on the new setup12:50
jdubseb128: dude12:50
=== Kamion fears the enormous d-i manual
jdubseb128: did you see about-me on ddl?12:50
mdzwell, the reason I want to shrink it is so that I can put Ubuntu in the free space12:51
npmccallummdz: deleting/re-adding the partition doesn't do anything to the data12:51
mdzand transition over12:51
seb128jdub: I've not read this thread yet12:51
seb128looks nice12:51
npmccallummdz: if you screw up the partition remake, just remake it again... just don't reboot until you know you have it right12:51
npmccallumif you reboot, fsck will try to fix the filesystem in the new partition bounds, which will corrupt data12:52
mdznpmccallum: it's my root filesystem; I can only get the kernel to re-read the partition table if I reboot12:52
npmccallummdz: do it from the install cd12:53
mdzno resize2fs on the install CD12:53
Mithrandirmdz: using an NPTL enabled glibc introduces a new set of problems called "stability issues". :(12:53
npmccallumthats dumb12:53
mdzI'd need to bring it, and its libraries over into the ramdisk...12:53
npmccallumget a live cd then... knoppix or my favorite: SystemRescue12:53
Kamionnpmccallum: dude, there's only so much space for multiple implementations of everything12:53
mdzI wish parted just didn't suck about this12:53
npmccallummdz: its not parted that sucks about this, its e2fs12:54
mdzthey went and reimplemented libe2fs12:54
mdznpmccallum: there's already a library that does this stuff12:54
mdzand some subset of its functionality is duplicated in parted12:54
jdubmdz: upstream are actively talking about a panel applet for dynamic device mount/unmount12:54
npmccallumthe e2fs guys told andrew clausen they had no interest in working with him12:54
npmccallumKamion: I'm not criticizing the choice to have it on the liveCD, just that is suck for matt to not have it there, I know that space is limited :)12:55
KamionITYM install CD12:56
mdzit is on the live CD12:57
mdzbut this machine's CD-ROM drive is old, and can't read CD-RWs, and I'm low on CD-Rs :-)12:58
KamionThis document contains installation instructions for the Ubuntu 4.10 system, for the Intel x86 (i386) architecture. It also contains pointers to more information and information on how to make the most of your new Debian system.01:16
Kamionhm, well, it's a start of sorts ...01:16
=== Mithrandir goes to bed. Frustrated.
pittinight, guys!01:24
=== pitti goes to bed. Exhausted from Tae Kwon Do and a one hour remote debugging session
=== lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKamion: do you know what Tobias Engvall's bug is?02:32
=== jdub replies in length to the epiphany/firefox q
mdzjdub: with a tear-stained letter?02:48
seb128jdub: are we allowed to reply that we suck at picking the non-desktop/non-translated/not-integrated browser ? :p02:50
mdzjdub: is there a magic button somewhere which can turn the GNOME open file dialog into something you can type a path into?02:50
mdzah, thanks02:51
seb128works in nautilus too02:51
jdubyou guys gave half answers so it could turn into an argument ;)02:59
seb128I didn't reply !03:00
seb128we make the wrong choice, I don't want to reply :p03:00
jdubsorry seb128 :-)03:01
jdubseb128: i will link up my answer when i mail the ephy guys :-)03:01
jdubseb128: i take full responsibility ;)03:01
seb128I still don't catch why we are getting with a non-integrated browser03:01
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-87-199.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128we loose translations03:01
seb128and we don't win any cool feature03:01
jdubseb128: brand and familiarity.03:02
jdubseb128: see my reply. ;)03:02
seb128this decision sucks03:02
seb128familiarity ? 03:02
seb128that's not a good argument to drop the desktop integration03:02
jdubwell, the world is familiar with firefox, not with gnome03:03
seb128people are not familiar with evolution neither ...03:03
jdubremember, i'm not saying this from a point of full agreement here :-)03:03
seb128they have a whole new desktop, what's so different with the browser ?03:03
jdubseb128: firefox has a very strong brand, very strong momentum03:04
jdubmaybe we should talk about it after you read my reply03:04
seb128if everybody say that, yes :)03:04
=== seb128 reads
jdubdude, it's beyond linux distribution choices :-)03:04
jameshseb128: web designers are very conservative, despite advocating the use of standards03:05
jameshseb128: if a website doesn't work well and you tell them you are using Epiphany, they will probably tell you they don't support it03:05
jameshseb128: they've got a much better chance of looking into the problem if you are using Firefox03:05
jamesh(which is about as good as you can get, given that IE isn't an option :)03:05
seb128that's the same engine, isn't it ?03:06
seb128so that's not an argument :p03:06
jameshyes it is.03:06
seb128jdub: "to compete with Firefox on features,"03:07
seb128jdub: which cool feature is missing in epiphany ?03:08
jdubseb128: firefox is getting a lot of third party support via extensions and so on, and has features that are familiar to browser users and are appropriate to enterprise deployments.03:09
seb128BTW epiphany's "familiarity, depth of community" is not going to happen. If everybody picks firefox that's ruined for epiphany03:09
jdubbut remember, 'everybody picks firefox' isn't just a linux distribution issue03:10
jameshseb128: also, some of the reasons for choosing OpenOffice apply here03:10
jameshsince OpenOffice runs on more than just Linux03:10
jdublots of people are choosing firefox totally independently of any interest in open source or linux :)03:10
seb128jamesh: the main reason for that is that abiword sucks at opening word formats, etc 03:11
jdubi know companies who are planning deployments of firefox for security03:11
jdubthey are not even remotely interested in linux desktops or open source ;)03:11
jdubseb128: that's not the main reason for OOo03:11
jdubit's brand and familiarity again03:11
=== randy_ [~randy@woodstock-7-726.woodstock.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128I just think that's a hard slap in the face for epiphany03:12
seb128and it'll not get better with time03:12
jdub(note that i don't fully agree with all of this myself, but i understand the reasons behind it)03:12
jdubsame slap in the face for gnumeric/abiword03:12
jdubgotta be adaptable :)03:13
seb128yes, but these are not GNOME components03:13
jdubthey are not officiallly 'in' the desktop03:13
jdubbut that's always a tenuous issue ;)03:13
jdub*everybody* shipped evolution03:13
jdub*everybody* ships gaim03:13
seb128*nobody* ships epiphany :p03:14
=== schweeb [~chris@schweeb.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubred hat are shipping epiphany and putting resources behind it03:14
jdubthey are not shipping firefox as default03:14
seb128good :)03:14
=== jdub has been talking to havoc about it
seb128not sure about the importance of the brand and familiarity plan (big importance apparently)03:15
seb128but on the technical one (integration, translation, release cycle, ...) we are loosing with firefox03:15
jdubseb128: it's not cast in stone, we can change in future.03:16
seb128yes, but still03:16
jdubseb128: i'm going to be talking to the ephy guys about how that can actually happen03:16
seb128currently most of the french user complain about the browser being in english03:17
seb128keeping mozilla-firefox and the ton of locale-* packages is a pain03:18
seb128+in sync03:18
jdubseb128: this is cool...03:18
jdubthe applet display is bong though03:18
seb128yeah, one more cool applet :)03:19
jameshremember that all applets are at least slightly crack ridden03:20
jameshespecially new ones like trashapplet :)03:20
seb128jdub: any news about a NEEDINFO state in bugzilla ? :)03:22
seb128it would make the bug list really more easy to read03:22
seb128the other solution is close -> reopen with details :)03:23
jdubseb128: i can't do that, we'll need to ping justdave - could you?03:25
jdubmdz: happy for gftp to shift to supported?03:25
jameshseb128: why do you need NEEDINFO? :)03:27
mdzjdub: absolutely03:27
schweebjdub: that's great news... if you have to ftp, gftp rocks03:27
mdzjamesh: to keep track of which bugs are blocked on a response from the submitter03:27
seb128jamesh: because a big part of my huge list of bugs is waiting for details03:27
mdzmakes it easier to revisit them periodically03:28
jameshmdz: I usually leave such bugs in UNCONFIRMED state03:28
jdubschweeb: this is a move from desktop -> supported, so it's kind of a demotion ;)03:28
jameshif there is enough information to identify the problem, then I move it to NEW03:28
seb128and how to know on which bug you have worked or not ?03:28
schweebit was in desktop03:29
jdubjamesh: but if it's confirmed but pending on more info...03:29
=== schweeb didn't notice
seb128jdub: I'll mail justdave/ubuntu-devel to ask if that's easy to ge03:29
jameshjdub/seb128: I might find NEEDINFO if it automatically reverted to the previous state when the reporter provided more info03:31
jameshas it is, it is a bit of a black hole03:31
mdzjamesh: we don't have an UNCONFIRMED state in our bugzilla03:32
=== jamesh finds NEEDINFO too similar to the old "LATER" resolution
seb128NEEDINFO is not a resolution03:34
seb128that's the point03:34
seb128BTW time to sleep03:40
seb128'night guys03:40
jdubnight seb!03:42
seb128later jdub, later guys03:42
jdubbuilding ephy against firefox is supported now03:45
=== jdub bugs it
jdubtarget isn't listed on the new bugs page03:46
=== justdave [~dave@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubmdz: around?05:34
m_tthewhe is probably trying the desktop migration again :)05:48
fabbionemorning guys06:19
jdubyo fabbione 06:24
=== doko [doko@dsl-084-057-062-014.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionemdz, jdub: so what should we do with X?07:25
fabbioneI really really really unsuggest to wait too long to upload07:25
fabbionepackages in external repositories do not get the same amount of tests07:26
jdubthat's how i feel, thus my suggestion to upload it07:28
jdubwe can always revert the changes in a new upload07:28
fabbionejdub: i agree.. mdz doesn't07:30
fabbioneyou two have to agree on it07:30
fabbionei think mdz is sleeping now07:31
fabbioneso that means we need to wait another bunch of hours07:31
jdubjustdave: whatcha think about my bz requests?07:36
mdzjdub: here08:21
mdzfabbione: if you're ready to upload, go for it08:21
fabbionemdz: I was ready to upload 2 days ago :-)08:21
mdzfabbione: what's "sleep"?08:21
fabbionewhich version do you want in?08:21
mdzfabbione: what are the choices? 19 vs. 20?08:22
fabbioneubuntu19 or ubuntu20?08:22
mdzI haven't even seen a changelog for 2008:22
mdzbut I have tested 1908:22
fabbioneok wait a sec.08:22
fabbionemdz, jdub: that's for you two08:25
mdzfabbione: what is this fpwll stuff?08:27
fabbionemdz: it's the video output on ppc or something08:27
fabbionefor TV out on some ATI-based PowerPCs.08:28
mdzfabbione: that sounds like a feature to me08:31
mdzwhat is it doing in a strictly bug fix release?08:31
=== trukulo [~trukulo@docsis65-46.menta.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionemdz: the ati driver has code for it. It is more complicate to remove that part of the code than just add 2 lines diff08:31
mdzthere is a specific patch just for that?08:33
mdzwhere can I download the .diff.gz?08:33
fabbione wc -l 099k_ati_use_fwpll.diff 08:33
fabbione82 099k_ati_use_fwpll.diff08:33
fabbioneprobably on people08:34
fabbionedaniels did an upload there i guess08:34
fabbioneotherwise i need to do it08:34
fabbionemdz: the .diff on people doesn't contain my changes08:45
fabbionejust that you know08:45
fabbionemdz, jdub: any decision?09:11
mdzfabbione: go09:12
fabbionemdz: u20 ?09:12
mdzyes, if you are confident09:12
mdzI am not familiar enough with X to judge the changes, but I hope nothing breaks09:12
fabbioneyes. we can always revert back if something really goes banana09:12
mdzwe are in ultra freeze mode right now09:12
fabbionethat's why we need people to test stuff on a large scale asap09:12
mdzso changes need to be more minimal09:13
fabbionemdz: i know we are in ultra freeze09:13
fabbionebut that's why we discuss bug fixes09:13
fabbioneand i want to have at least the 10 bugs fixed before Final09:13
mdzwhich bug does debian/patches/099j_ati_r4xx_support.diff fix?09:13
fabbionei will upload ubuntu19 and 5 minutes after ubuntu2009:13
fabbionemdz: it was discussed somewhere on the mailing lists and irc09:14
mdzyou can just upload both at the same time09:14
mdzor just 2009:14
fabbionemdz: i don't remember a bugzilla entry for it09:14
fabbionemdz: ok09:14
fabbionemdz: i am also waiting 1298 submitter to test09:15
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Mithrandir tears evolution's head off
MithrandirI ROCK09:51
=== Mithrandir jumps up and down
Mithrandir(on evolution's head)09:51
MithrandirI wonder whose idea it was for evolution-data-server to ship it's own, private copy of libdb.09:52
Mithrandirjdub: any idea how much will break if I get seb128 to upload an evolution-data-server that does not use it's private libdb, but the shared one?09:57
mdzMithrandir: what version does it ship?09:59
Mithrandirwhich breaks in, well, interesting ways on amd6409:59
jdubMithrandir: very strongly recommend we don't10:00
jdubone sec10:00
jdubwill rationalise10:00
jdubjust have to order dinner10:00
Mithrandirjdub: do you have any other suggestion?10:00
jdubMithrandir: we can't, because evo needs the same version of libdb so you can copy around contacts10:02
jdubMithrandir: surely RH have a patch for this?10:02
Mithrandirno idea yet, I've been chasing this bug from evo to e-d-s to orbit (which was a dead track), over some corba shit, a bit more around e-d-s and now finally to libdb and wondered wtf it was failing10:03
MithrandirI discovered ripping out the static version fixes the problem on amd6410:03
Mithrandirwe could see if updating the private libdb 4.1 to the latest version fixes the problem10:03
Mithrandirit shows itself by blowing up if you use a free-thread access to the db.10:05
=== trukulo [~trukulo@docsis65-46.menta.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsmdz: the r4xx stuff adds support for any card newer than the 9800 (last of the r3xx series, effectively)10:08
Mithrandirdaniels: is this amd64 support as well?10:09
danielsMithrandir: amd64 already works fine on ati10:09
danielsMithrandir: but yes, r4xx will work ok on amd64 ;)10:09
danielsi think i've dug up some halfway sensible code for amd64 vbe10:10
Mithrandirwoo, that's great.10:10
fabbionedaniels: ubuntu20 is up in main10:10
danielsfabbione: people.nny.com/~fabbione?10:10
fabbionedaniels: MAIN archive10:10
danielsoh wow, main10:11
danielsnot bad, just surprising :)10:11
fabbionedaniels: again.. next time read my activity report for 2004-09-2010:11
fabbionethe "changelog" section ;)10:11
danielsheh, I'd only just cleared warty-changes when I said 'oh wow, main'10:12
danielscanonical-activity is a little further down the list10:12
daniels01:13 < clee> btw, ubuntu is totally sucking.10:13
daniels01:13 < clee> I hate having everything just work.10:13
danielsnice work, guys :)10:13
=== seb128 [~seb128@AToulouse-105-1-5-13.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirhi seb.10:17
Mithrandirseb128: evolution-data-server seems to not ship clean source ; libdb/dist includes config.log among other things10:18
seb128hum, I've not checked10:18
seb128is that a problem ?10:18
danielsoh man, fglrx doesn't do xrandr? that's so much arse10:19
Mithrandirseb128: it's ugly, nothing more.10:19
seb128ok :)10:19
seb128I'll check that10:19
Mithrandirseb128: I'd really like you to apply a small patch as well -- it thinks amd64 doesn't support fast mutexes10:20
seb128better to bug report upstream with the patch and wait for comments at this point of the release cycle10:22
seb128where is the patch ?10:22
Mithrandirin libdb/dist/aclocal/mutex.ac; #if (defined(i386) || defined(__i386__)) && defined(__GNU10:23
Mithrandirshould be changed to include || defined(__x86_64__)10:23
Mithrandirdo you know how to regenerate the configure script?  When I try to, it blows up :/10:24
jameshseb128: I think the trashdir patch for trash applet is pretty much done, btw.10:27
seb128jamesh: yes, I'm reading my mails, I've seen the patch but not tested yet10:27
seb128Mithrandir: feel free to upload e-d-s with the patch if you want. What's the problem with the configure generation ?10:28
jameshWith the patch, if I start with an empty trash, put a file in the trash on the USB key, it says I have 1 item in the trash10:28
jameshwhen I unplug the USB key, it says the trash is empty again10:28
jameshwhen plugging it in again, it sees the 1 item again10:28
seb128rock !10:28
Mithrandirseb128: make[4] : @db_cv_path_sh@: Command not found10:29
seb128let me try10:30
Mithrandirit's missing from configure.ac10:37
MithrandirI wonder how they ever built this in the first place10:38
=== jdthood [~jdthood@aglu.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== azeem [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Sledge__ [~steve@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirseb128: getting anywhere?10:46
seb128it builds fine here after running the auto*10:47
Mithrandircan you put the diff somewhere I can get at it?10:48
Mithrandirso I can build and test that it works on amd64 before uploading10:48
seb128the configure diff ?10:48
Mithrandirhow are  you running auto*10:49
seb128libtoolize --force --copy && aclocal-1.6 && autoheader && automake-1.6 -acf && autoconf10:50
Mithrandirerm, libdb doesn't use automake10:51
seb128hum, I've run it for e-d-s in fact10:53
seb128that's not good ?10:53
MithrandirI just don't see how this:10:53
Mithrandir: tfheen@golem ..a-server-1.0.0/libdb/dist > grep -ir  @db_cv_path_sh@ . 10:53
Mithrandir./Makefile.in:SHELL=    @db_cv_path_sh@10:53
Mithrandir./configure:s,@db_cv_path_sh@,$db_cv_path_sh,;t t10:53
Mithrandir./config.status:s,@db_cv_path_sh@,/bin/sh,;t t10:53
Mithrandircan ever work.10:53
Mithrandirno, running it in the top level doesn't help10:53
=== Mithrandir scratches head
Mithrandirit doesn't find the files in aclocal/10:58
seb128try to use aclocal-1.6 -I /usr/share/aclocal/gnome2-macros10:59
Mithrandirwhy should libdb care about gnome2-macros?10:59
Mithrandirit's now just complaining about AM_VERSION_SET11:02
seb128no idea of why it should care but it works here in this way :)11:03
Mithrandirwhen you've changed libdb/dist/aclocal/mutexes as I wrote?11:04
seb128yes, it works fine here in the way described before with the change in libdb/dist/aclocal/mutex.ac11:13
MithrandirI've made it work now, making diff.11:18
Mithrandirjdub/mdz: around?11:19
Mithrandirjdub: http://raw.no/patches/evolution-data-server_1.0.0-0ubuntu2-amd64-libdb-mutex.diff ; fixes 1443 ; approved for upload?11:20
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-87-199.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionejdub: wake up dude :-)11:21
Mithrandir(yes, the diff is big due to autoconf being run, I'm sorry)11:22
Mithrandirhe's xa on jabber.11:22
fabbionedaniels: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xfree86/4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu20/11:23
danielsfabbawesome :)11:28
fabbionedaniels: we probably have the full fix for the Xv11:31
fabbionecheck the last comment on this bug11:31
fabbionethere has been a big ati update on xorg.11:34
fabbionedaniels: should we start packaging x.org?11:39
fabbionefrom scratch11:39
jdubMithrandir, fabbione: pong12:05
Mithrandirjdub: see mail12:12
=== Mithrandir guesses "approved". :P
jdubdeferred :)12:13
Mithrandirok, I hope mdz will approve it when he wakes up, then.12:20
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittijdub: just fixed https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1589 ; approval?12:36
jdubcommented, approved12:38
danielsfabbione: from scratch?12:51
danielsfabbione: i already have packages, you bongsipper :)12:51
fabbioneyes from scratch12:53
danielswhy from scratch?12:53
fabbionea) i want to split as much as we can from the beginning with some insane stuff12:53
fabbioneb) i want to get rid of all the old maint scritps from debian12:54
fabbionec) we have like 300K lines of patches to revisit12:54
jameshone of the gnome-panel authors can't spell "preffered" :)12:56
danielsfabbione: heh01:01
danielsfabbione: getting rid of the dbs crap would be good01:01
danielsfabbione: sure01:01
fabbioneactually i am happy with dbs01:03
fabbionewhat would you suggest instead?01:03
danielsi see the case for dbs, though01:05
fabbionewhat's the difference.. dpatch is even more dangerous01:06
fabbioneanyway we need to talk on the phone at least before we start01:06
Mithrandirdpatch is scary, since it wedges fairly easily, IME01:07
fabbioneMithrandir: yep01:07
fabbioneand we don't want that for X ...01:07
=== pooh_ [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pooh_morning all01:23
=== pooh_ is now known as sivang
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionedaniels: are you still around?01:24
=== sivang [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128jdub: #1493, ok for upload ?02:02
=== thom beats firefox in the nose
thombroken makefiles ahoy!02:05
thom/home/thom/work/packages/mozilla-firefox-0.99+1.0PR/config/nsinstall: cannot make directory /usr/bin/defaults: Permission denied02:07
fabbionenice :-)02:07
thomwhat the hell is /usr/bin/defaults?02:08
=== thom boggles in terror
fabbioneSource: x.org02:08
fabbioneSection: x1102:08
fabbionePriority: optional02:08
fabbionethom: do you want to exchange?02:08
pittithom: shall I take #552 (thunderbird security vulnerability) from you? I'm running out of major bugs02:09
thompitti: it should just be a sync request02:09
pittithom: you really want to sync in the freeze?02:09
thom1385 needs investigation :-)02:09
thompitti: and see comment 4 on 1385 :-)02:10
pittithom: ah, okay. If Matt agress to sync, fine for me02:11
pittithom: but such regressions liek 1385 are the reason why I like to backport security fixes :-/02:12
thompitti: sure02:13
thompitti: you know mozilla's approach to security fixes tho, right? :(02:14
pittithom: not really02:14
thompitti: here's a new api, here's a patch that uses the new api to fix the bug, everyone, upgrade, quick02:14
pittithom: I assumed something along that line, yes02:15
jdubthom: it is very hard to write a secure api! (!!!) look at windows! (!!!)02:15
pittithom: is there any other reason to upgrade to 0.8 apart from the security fix?02:15
=== azeem_ [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsfabbione: sup?02:26
danielsfabbione: oh man02:26
danielsfabbione: please don't do libs02:26
danielsfabbione: give me a sec, i'll upload some files you need02:26
danielsfabbione: also, xorg is better, i think02:26
fabbionedaniels: no i just prepared an empty debian dir02:27
fabbionewith the minimum to unpack x.org 6.8.102:28
fabbionenothing more02:28
fabbionealso because i want to discuss with you a bunch of things02:28
danielsfabbione: sure02:28
fabbioneon how to approach x.org to simplify the split later02:28
fabbionei have some insane ideas02:28
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
Mithrandirfabbione: any idea what might cause this:03:01
MithrandirX Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)03:01
Mithrandir  Major opcode of failed request:  45 (X_OpenFont)03:01
Mithrandir  Value in failed request:  0x2c0005803:01
Mithrandir  Serial number of failed request:  119703:01
Mithrandir  Current serial number in output stream:  119803:01
Mithrandir(xfontsel dying when selecting verdana font)03:01
lamontelmo about?03:03
=== Mithrandir whacks defoma
=== T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
T-Bonehi, anyone awake?03:06
thomquite a few people are, yeah03:07
thomlamont: catch him on jabber, prolly best03:07
T-Boneok ;) Roughly put, I'd like to know what it takes to become an ubuntu maintainer03:08
Mithrandirlooks like lying to defoma was a bad idea03:09
thomT-Bone: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/maintainers03:10
jdub.debs aren't built in the order they packages are specified in control, are they?03:10
Mithrandirjdub: I don't think it's defined anywhere03:11
T-Bonethom: ok. Another question, to which I couldn't find an answer on google: is there a plan to port ubuntu to ia64?03:11
thomT-Bone: if enough people with ia64s express interest, sure03:11
T-Bonethom: well, I do express interest, and might even be interested in actively contributing to such a port03:12
T-Bonei have machines, and time on my hands03:12
thomcertainly not for warty though :-)03:12
T-Boneyeah I would have guessed that ;)03:12
thombut start a thread on the devel list, see if there's interest, and go from there :-)03:12
T-Bonethom: ok, i'll do that03:13
sivangT-Bone : take a number :) I also want to become one ;-) what are you interested in besides ia64?03:13
T-Bonesivang: well, i'm already a DD, and a (modest) kernel hacker, so my interests in the OSS and Linux fields are quite vast ;)03:14
lamontT-Bone: I plan to start a local mirror with ia64 bits in it just to run the house machine...03:19
T-Bonelamont: here's some data for you, dude ;)03:19
T-Boneas part of one of my school's project,03:20
T-Bonei'm working on ia64 linux03:20
lamontT-Bone: the real need is a working warty (er, hoary) installer for ia64 - the rest flows pretty easily.03:20
T-Bonepart of that project is to check the existing distro03:20
T-Bonethe second part of the project03:20
T-Boneis to eventually build a rock solid distro, suitable for enterprise-grade quality03:20
T-Bonea free distro03:21
T-Bonethis might also get integrated to the Gelato federation03:21
T-Bonetherefore, i thought about porting ubuntu03:21
T-Bonelamont: see my point? ;)03:21
lamontT-Bone: bigtime03:22
T-Bonelamont: this is also why i have _time_ ;)03:22
T-Bonelamont: aside palinux time ;)03:22
=== sivang there is going to spring a nifty cool thing out of this :)
=== lamont grumbles at X
=== T-Bone considers copy/pasting this log to his wikipage for ubuntu maintainership subscription ;)
lamontfabbione: ok.  that's 10 fingers _AND_ 10 toes.  You can stop uploading new versions of X :-)03:23
Mithrandirlamont: he's just trying to keep the buildds in good shape03:24
lamontMithrandir: the buildd's don't break a sweat.  My local mirror hates him. :-)03:25
Mithrandirheh, ok :)03:25
lamontbuilding:   05:56:04     3.53%03:26
lamontidle    :  156:56:00    93.41%03:26
lamonttotal   :  168:00:0403:26
lamontlike I said... no sweat. :-)03:26
Mithrandiryeah, I get those as well03:26
lamontand that's because I gave back all the 'building (really probably == failed)' packages in universe yesterday... :)03:27
lamontMithrandir: yeah, you would.03:27
Mithrandirjust for amd64, though03:27
lamontspeaking of which, once I get the summary reports to show up, do you want to keep getting all the logs, or just hit the web site?03:27
MithrandirRSS feed for only the failed ones would be nice.03:28
=== Mithrandir hides a bit
lamontMithrandir: what's RSS??? :-)03:28
Mithrandirlamont: seriously, I can code up the RSS feed if you give me a hook somewhere in the chain of putting the logs somewhere03:29
Mithrandir(or access to the database, or something)03:29
lamonthrm... I could add -v to the rsync, and then generate HTML from that to give you a list of all the logs for a day...03:29
lamont*/10 * * * * rsync -a ...:buildLogs/ public_html/buildLogs/03:31
lamontthat could certainly get fatter...03:31
=== T-Bone wonders why there's no name on the wiki page MaintainerCandidates
Mithrandirit was probably added recently03:42
=== T-Bone adds himself
=== thom cries at firefox
thomgod this is sucky03:54
=== lamont points at people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate
lamontMithrandir: ~/bin/mirrorLogs.py, btw04:01
lamontpatches welcome. :-)04:01
jdubdh_install doesn't rename04:01
jdubis there another option apart from stuff in rules?04:01
jdubfile dir04:02
jdubnot file dir/file04:02
thomthought it did both? oh well04:02
jdubthanks for the firefox stuff dude04:02
jdubsorry it is painful :|04:02
thomis ok04:02
jdubi am doing something now04:02
jdubwhich will brighten your day04:02
thomi have at least one upstream bug to file so far04:02
jduband make you cack your panties04:03
lamontKamion: you about?04:03
jdubthom: i am... KILLING ESOUND :-)04:03
thomrock and roll04:03
jdubpolypaudio :-)04:03
jdubprotocol compat04:03
jdubso all libesd apps will still work04:03
jdubbut... actually work04:03
jdubthen i will convince gnome to shift to it in 2.1004:04
=== lamont decides that #1559 is his day's activity
lamontback in a bit04:05
Kamionlamont: yo04:06
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubyo rburton 04:10
rburtonhey jdub04:10
rburtonlamont: so i'm trying to find out if msttcorefonts was built for universe, if it failed, etc. it isn't in your build logs, so can i assume it wasn't even built?04:11
pittifabio: you guys broke my iBook04:25
pittifabbione: this morning I apt-upgraded my iBook (did not do that for about a week), and now X does not start any more; I only get a black screen, cannot switch back to consoles, etc.04:25
pittifabbione: any idea how I can debug this?04:26
Mithrandirrburton: msttcorefonts is contrib04:27
Mithrandirrburton: contrib is outside of universe ATM04:27
jdubsorry, should've remembered that04:30
rburtoncan i expect it for warty?04:31
Mithrandirrburton: you want to test 1.1.7 of it?04:31
rburtonyeah ok04:32
Mithrandirbinary i386 package or source?04:32
rburtoni386 will be great04:32
Mithrandirit's actually an _all.deb, so :P04:33
rburtongood point so it is04:33
Mithrandironce it's installed, can you check that fonts still work, and that fonts are now in /usr/share/fonts/truetype/msttcorefonts?04:35
rburtonfonts are in right location04:36
MithrandirI _think_ I've gotten it all right, but it's always nice to have somebody else test as well04:36
rburtonseems to work fine, great04:38
=== sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandircool, thanks04:38
sladenseb128: gpdf -is- xpdf04:39
seb128sladen: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11250604:40
lamontrburton: let me check - not in the web buildLogs means either built, or already marked failed/depwait/etc.04:41
rburtonlamont: turns out it wasn;t built as its in contrib04:41
Mithrandirlamont: it's contrib in Debian04:41
lamontKamion: is there a convenient script lying around somewhere that I could use to find all the source packages that have _all.deb, but no _i386.deb, and mention same in their control file?04:41
lamontrburton: ok.04:41
Kamionlamont: not that I can think of, unless you count "hack it up with grep-dctrl" ...04:43
lamontKamion: that's what I was trying to skip. :-)04:44
lamonthrm.. I could just take everything that04:45
lamontis 'building' on i386 and see if it has any arch: all in the archive.04:45
sladenseb128: ``GPdf's handling of embedded fonts is almost non-existant.''  Oh that's clever, defeating 97.5% of the reason for PDF...04:48
lamontKamion: btw, I moved which machine does the i386 daily DI build...  scream if it doesn't work in the morning...04:50
=== azeem [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontKamion: 29 packages to visit. Not that bad.. :-(04:56
fabbioneMithrandir, pitti: driver?05:05
pittifabbione: radeon05:05
pittifabbione: I can still log in over network05:05
pittifabbione: looked at the X log, nothing I can tell from it, but maybe I can send it to you?05:06
fabbionepitti: send it to daniels. he did some ati update05:06
pittifabbione: okay05:06
fabbioneI will revert the changes and upload ubuntu2105:07
jdubthom: where's the "tell xscreensaver to blank on lid close" thing?05:08
jdubnm, found it05:09
pittifabbione: you will revert the ati changes?05:10
pittifabbione: so can I just wait for ubuntu21 instead of trying to downgrade?05:10
fabbionepitti: up to you05:11
=== thom laughs in the face of firefox. I WIN!
fabbioneit will take me another 10 minutes to upload05:11
pittifabbione: if you upload today...05:11
fabbioneand approx 2 hours before it will be in the archive05:11
thommy radeon still works with -20 :-)05:11
pittifabbione: that's fine, thanks!05:11
fabbionejdub: do you agree or do we need to ask for mdz approval too?05:12
fabbionethom: so does mine05:12
jdubfabbione: for?05:12
jdubreverting changes in a new upload?05:12
jdubi can approve of that, given the fallout ;)05:12
thomPreparing to replace mozilla-firefox 0.9.3-2.2ubuntu3 (using .../mozilla-firefox_0.99+1.0PR-1_amd64.deb)05:12
fabbioneati is broken05:12
jdubbest to get it in, see if anything else breaks05:13
jdubthom: rock :)05:13
fabbionejdub: do you approve or not? ;)05:13
jdubfabbione: yes05:13
fabbionethere is no news that you CAN approve :-)05:13
Kamionconsole-data RC bug coming up05:13
Kamion(translation b0rkage, including English)05:14
fabbionefabbione@trider-g7:/usr/src/xorg$ ls05:14
fabbionex.org-6.8.1              x.org_6.8.1-0.1.dsc05:14
fabbionex.org_6.8.1-0.1.diff.gz  x.org_6.8.1.orig.tar.gz05:14
fabbioneMUHA UHA UHA05:14
fabbionerburton: just kidding.. that's only the orig.tar.gz :-)05:20
fabbionethere are 0 binaries ;)05:21
rburtonit's a start :)05:21
fabbioneyeah exactly05:21
fabbionepitti, jdub: X uploaded05:22
fabbionethat's the last one if there are no other major bugs coming up05:23
pittifabbione: thanks for the info. I sent the X log to daniels, FYI05:23
pittifabbione: ah, wasn't ubuntu12 supposed the last one? :-))05:23
Mithrandirfabbione: pong, huh?05:23
Mithrandirfabbione: oh, what kind of drivers I'm using?05:24
fabbioneMithrandir: you said something was wrong with X05:24
fabbionei guess it's an ati driver05:24
Mithrandirfabbione: I did?  Where?05:24
Mithrandirfabbione: ah, no, I found out05:24
fabbione<Mithrandir> X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of05:25
Mithrandirjust me lying to defoma05:25
Mithrandirwhich is a bad idea05:25
fabbionelamont: yeah 10 fingers, 10 toues and now 1 d**k ;)05:25
fabbionelamont: i will need help to count for the next release05:25
Mithrandirfabbione: you can count to a lot more than 10 with just your fingers.05:26
Kamion"I'd give my left penis to be normal"05:26
Mithrandirfabbione: with ten fingers, you can count to 1024.05:26
Mithrandirwith your toes as well, you can count to a million (1024^2)05:26
Mithrandirshould be enough, even for X revisions05:27
fabbioneMithrandir: ahah05:27
fabbioneMithrandir: don't be so sure05:27
fabbioneanyway.. i need to write down some ideas on how to split Xorg source05:28
fabbiones/ideas/insane &/05:28
Mithrandirfabbione: I think lamont will kill you if you go over 1M X revisions05:28
fabbioneMithrandir: it will cost me less to buy him an adsl ;)05:29
Mithrandiryeah. :)05:29
Mithrandirincluding the digging05:29
lamontfabbione: ADSL not available in my area.05:31
=== lamont needs to either wait, or move ~2000 feet south
fabbionelamont: well we can buy a serious wireless link with dishes and so on..05:32
lamontOTOH, if the proposal to develop the land a mile west of here goes through, then they'll drop another RT close enough to hit me within 12 months, I expect.05:32
fabbionelamont: I saw a bunch of them years ago05:32
fabbioneand they weren't too expensive05:32
Mithrandir2000 ft?  You can just get a drop there and then use coax to get to you, then?05:32
Mithrandirif you use 3com card, it works with 600m 10base2.05:33
Mithrandircards, even05:33
lamont"there" is in the middle of a field, and there are county roads in the way...05:33
Mithrandirget a digger, then? :)05:33
lamonthowever, wireless link to go .5 miles is a possibility...05:33
thomright, hopefully this is the last firefox build05:34
thomthen i need to investigate languages05:34
fabbionelamont: search on google.. there was someone that did a wlan <-> parabolic dish adapter using a can of tomato souce05:34
fabbionecheap and effective05:34
Mithrandirfabbione: pringles antenna05:34
lamontfabbione: that gets you about 8-12 dB.  I have a 24dB dish on the roof05:34
lamontand at least 1 spare in the shed.05:35
Mithrandirthat could work05:35
Mithrandiras long as you have LoS, wlan works fairly well out-of-spec.05:35
Mithrandir(and decent antennas)05:35
lamontMithrandir: big time -that's what I'm using for my wlan internet feed now.05:35
lamonthowever, when the hilltop looses power long enough to run the UPS dry, it's bad...05:35
lamontis 18 miles "out of spec"?05:36
Mithrandirfor 802.11b?05:36
=== __randy__ [~randy@sclab-25-433.sclab.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont1W ERP (legal limit) on both ends.  About 5dB or less of margin.  sucks to have weather05:36
Mithrandiryou boost it a bit, I guess, then?05:36
Mithrandir1W isn't really much, though.05:37
lamontthe funny thing is that what really kills it is snow, not rain.05:37
Mithrandirwell, it tries to melt the snow.. kinda icky.05:37
lamontthe reflected near-power at the hilltop site de-senses the receiver, and pushes the noise floor above our margin.05:37
lamontrain just attenuates the signal.05:38
Mithrandiralso, I'd think snowflakes are a bit bigger, so you catch them.05:38
lamontnah - 1/4 wavelength == 2cm, which is still pretty huge compared to our typical snowflakes05:39
Mithrandirhm, true.05:39
m_tthewwhat sort of antennas on each end?05:39
Mithrandirwhat's the reason, then?05:40
m_ttheware you using amps?05:40
lamontOTOH, the massive wall of snowflakes makes a pretty good reflector for all the 50W, 100W, and 50KW transmitters at the site.05:40
lamonteven with poor reflection, that's a hell of a lot of reflected power.05:40
lamontmy end is 100mW aironet into a 24dB dish (and yes, that's too much...  But there are cable and connector losses)05:40
m_tthewparabolic grid or actual dish?05:41
lamontthe hilltop is 100mW into a 60dB passfilter, 1W amp, lowloss cable, and 8dB omni05:41
Mithrandirlamont: why an omni at the hilltop?05:41
lamontMithrandir: the other 50 or so users of the hilltop can talk to it better that way...05:41
m_tthewhave you tried the hilltop with more gain and original radio power without an amp?05:41
Mithrandiroh, there are other users. :)05:42
m_tthewI've had lousy experiences with amps, usually just jacks up the noise floor really bad.05:42
lamontm_tthew: not even close to working.05:42
Mithrandirm_tthew: should help when you have a passfilter in front.05:42
m_tthewyeah, and that low loss, is it LMR400?05:42
lamontm_tthew: for the short runs, LMR400.  Anything over ~10 meters --> LMR60005:43
m_tthewoh, you need runs that long between the radio and antenna, eh?05:43
rburtoncan someone using ppc run gnome-audio-profiles-properties for me?05:43
m_tthewcrikey LMR600, 400 is hard enough to work with05:43
lamontm_tthew: took us time to find some good amps.  the co-op is actually in the process of switching over to Motorola Canopy05:43
rburtonit will either crash, or you'll get a dialog05:43
=== sivang [~sivang@DSL217-132-216-251.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontradio is typically a PCI or PCMCIA card in the computer in the closet somewhere.05:44
m_tthewlamont: canopy seems to work very well, particularly in those 'lots of clients' situation that tank 11b05:44
lamontm_tthew: 1"5/8 hardline is much more fun to work with... :)05:44
m_tthewlamont: :) heh05:44
lamontm_tthew: yep.  none of this 'wait for a clear channel' niceness...  OTOH, if anyone is running w/o gps sync, everyone dies.05:45
m_tthewlamont: hah, I didn't know that05:45
lamontm_tthew: canopy slices time up into AP and SM slots, and the AP assigns them to SM's.  Hence you _KNOW_ that the channel is clear for your transmit time, and the air-delay means that other AP's still get clear time (since every AP on the planet transmits at the same time...)05:47
lamontthat is, if they all agree on what time it is.. ;)05:47
lamontright. enough stalling.  time to work on getty05:48
m_tthewthanks, and good luck :)05:50
Kamionjdub: #1607 OK?05:57
jdubKamion: yeah, sure05:58
jdubKamion: we should probably take translations out of the freezer05:58
Kamionta. this is kind of an odd case, a missing translation of just one of the keymap names kills the whole lot05:59
Kamionit's also an odd case because English is a translation (from C) :-)05:59
jdubi have a module with a bunch of dlopenable things in it06:01
jdubsome of which i'm putting in separate packages06:01
jdubshould they depend on the primary package?06:01
jdubsuggest it?06:01
jdubthey're totally fricking useless without it06:01
Mithrandirthen make them depend on the main package?06:01
jdubthat's the right thing to do?06:02
=== jdub will do it for now :)
Mithrandirwould be reasonable, IMHO06:02
=== azeem [~mbanck@port-212-202-77-99.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kamion ponders a base-config-minimal.udeb
KamionMark wants several questions moved back to pre-reboot, and I really don't want to duplicate the code if I can help it06:13
Kamionhaving the base-config source generate some udebs with the questions it wants to ask seems like the least bad answer06:14
azeemis the goal to not have any curses-based stuff running after reboot, and directly enter X?06:15
=== thom sighs
Kamionazeem: apparently so, yeah06:15
thomMithrandir: dude, have you looked at translating firefox 1.0PR yet?06:16
Kamionazeem: well, no questions anyway unless X goes wrong06:16
Kamionit's a slightly scary redesign06:16
azeemif ubuntu releases are such a non-moving thing, did you consider just extracting a tarball image of base+desktop, and do configuring on top of it?06:16
Kamionazeem: see sounder@; that's really hard to maintain06:17
azeemI mean, it looks like every desktop will be around 99% identical06:17
Kamionconsidered and rejected06:17
azeemyeah, ok06:17
Kamionit would be an awful lot of divergent code to do that, too; we'd have to support both paths because netboot installs don't want to work that way06:17
azeemI guess the speed difference wouldn't be so big nowadays anyway, so the maintainabilty trumps it06:19
Kamionexactly, there are other ways to speed things up06:20
fabbioneKamion: which mail are you talking about?06:20
Kamionfabbione: hm?06:20
fabbione<Kamion> azeem: see sounder@; that's really hard to maintain06:20
Kamionfabbione: thread about debootstrap with John06:20
fabbionei got curious, but i couldn't understand the thread06:20
fabbionei tend to skip VERY looong threads06:21
=== thom machine guns the mozilla foundation
jdubKamion: you'll be pleased to know that john is now harassing bruce06:35
Sledge__jdub: *grin*06:35
Sledge__he sent a private email to me today about Debian DVDs06:36
Sledge__and I think I'm just going to ignore him for now06:36
Kamionjdub: oh good; mind you I think he's capable of multidirectional harassment06:37
=== Kamion tries to write a design document for this base-config stuff
lamontseb128: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/g/gtk+2.0/2.4.10-1ubuntu1 ...07:03
lamontxargs: rm: terminated by signal 407:03
lamontdh_movefiles: command returned error code07:03
lamontgotta love ppc...07:03
lamontI think I'm going to make an autoreply for that...07:03
seb128I've nothing to do, that's an autobuilder failure, right ?07:04
jdubseb128: what's the cdbs rule after install, but before binary?07:06
lamontseb128: that's a ppc kernel bug07:06
lamontbut yeah,07:06
seb128jdub: let me check07:07
lamontfrom now on, things that say ' terminated by signal 4' will get retried. :-)07:07
=== jdub tries that
lamontso why does dist-upgrade ask me about kernel keymaps, framebuffer devices, and such???07:09
thommdz: so, um.07:11
seb128jdub: install/package: perhaps ?07:11
thomthey've totally redone how language support works07:12
jdubseb128: that seems to happen beforehand07:12
thomin firefox07:12
=== jdub covers his eyes.
thomand i can't make the old language packs work at all07:12
seb128epiphany at least has translation integrated :p07:13
=== seb128 runs
=== thom chuckles at seb
thomi wasn't saying it07:14
seb128not saying .... :)07:14
lamontlooks like my AP didn't survive the power mess yesterday either. :-(07:15
thommdz: on the plus side, firefox works fine ;-)07:16
mdzthom: well, considering our current firefox is pretty much untranslated, at least that's not a regression :-)07:16
thomthis is true07:17
thomi guess we can just pull in the translations when they get done, and hope to hell they don't fuck them up again before 1.007:17
thommdz: am i good to upload 1.0PR then?07:20
mdzthom: yes07:20
=== lamont wonders if thom has anything to do with fireturd...
=== thom blinks at lamont
=== lamont takes that as a 'NO'.
jdubseb128: so install -> tmp07:21
jdubthen binary -> (package)/07:22
jdubi need to futz with (package)/ before -> .deb :)07:22
seb128   rm debian/package/...07:23
jdubbinary-install? hrm, i'll try07:23
jdubseb128: rocking!07:25
jdubseb128: thanks07:25
jdubseb128: you will be very happy to see what i'm working on :-)07:25
seb128oh ? /me waiting for the next upload :)07:25
jdublamont: so if we do random uploads, things will pop into universe?07:26
lamontjdub: mcs Build-Depends mono-mcs (which is built by mcs), so it'll need to be bootstrapped.07:27
lamontnew would require elmo love07:27
lamontbut I think all the sources are there already (in universe), just back at 0.96...07:27
lamontgimme a list of source packages, and it's trivial to verify that they exist.07:27
jdublamont: new source packages07:28
lamontthat takes elmo love07:28
=== jdub picks a flower
lamontbut yes, they'd wind up in universe.07:28
jdubi don't need a fucking flower07:28
lamontand then someone would probably have to poke me to bootstrap them.07:29
lamontjdub: and non-revivifiable?07:29
=== Kamion reads a scroll of turn undead
jdubi'll wrap it in plastic if i have to07:29
lamont[er, Steven Brust, Vlad Taltos series ] 07:29
lamontjdub: destroy head, decapitate, or prevent those who care from recovering the body for at least 3 days. :-)07:30
jdubgood god07:33
jdubKamion: what on earth is this installer change for?07:34
Kamionjdub: -> sabdfl07:34
Kamion15:19 <sabdfl> main things i'd like for next sounder are (a) username questions moved to pre-reboot, so if all goes well with x we get no post-boot questions, and (b) keybd question reintroduced (mdz's07:34
Kamion               request) with simple sane text07:34
KamionI think Mark thought it was an easier change than it actually is; the username stuff is *relatively* straightforward as it stands, but "no post-boot questions" is non-trivial if you want a properly configured timezone07:36
seb128mdz: nautilus-cd-burner 2.8.3 released today, part of the release note : "Lock drive while burning when using HAL"07:37
Kamion'cos tzsetup has a number of dependencies which make it tricky to run it outside /target (and I don't believe in the idea of running debconf stuff chrooted and expecting it to talk to cdebconf correctly)07:37
=== T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubKamion: he said you described it as easy a few weeks back 8)07:50
jdubKamion: was talking to him about it; we're going to do an RC on the 13th, final on the 20th07:51
Kamionjdub: he was only asking about the username question back then07:51
KamionI didn't know the goal was "no questions post-reboot"07:51
Kamionalthough looking back I think I may not have been reading between the lines enough07:51
jdubyeah, that seemed to be the issue with the whole computer menu thing07:53
jdub"oh, if you'd meant the goal was to pull all the icons off the desktop, and figure out a ui to deal with that..."07:53
thomuh, how do i set emacs/whatever keybindings in gnome?07:55
lamonthow very, um, cute.07:55
lamontsudo doesn't have /dev/tty1 open (lsof), but it's prompt goes there. sigh.07:55
thom(trying to test #1294)07:56
thomjdub/seb128: ^07:57
mdzjdub: when and where was it decided to delay the release?08:05
mdzseb128: nice!08:05
jdubmdz: was just talking to sabdfl in other channel08:05
jdubthom: used to be a dropdown in keyboard shortcuts08:06
jdubthom: guess it's gconfy now08:06
thomjdub: any idea where?08:08
jdubthom: maybe under /desktop/gnome ?08:09
mdzfabbione: so there were some problems with X?08:09
sladenKamion: there's still the PITA that the CD needs removing, else it really would be fire and forget08:09
Kamionsladen: can't do much about that given that some systems suck the CD back in on reboot08:10
lamontKamion: leave a foot print at the end of install, if that's there when you get to the bootup of the install disk, ask the user if his machine is one that sucks the CD back in at reboot... ??? :-)08:12
sladenKamion: indeed.  Need a chain-loader and default-to-harddisk for that08:12
thomjdub: *shrug*08:12
thomjdub: can't see anything that looks reasonable08:13
Kamionsladen: most people will probably want to remove the CD, though; the chainloading trick would work but would be pretty nonintuitive for most people, I think, and would require a considerable delay08:13
Kamionsladen: (there's also the question of where to chainload *to*)08:13
sladenKamion: default entry on the harddisk08:13
Kamion"default entry"?08:13
sladenKamion: MBR08:13
=== lamont feels very dirty
lamontbut util-linux is fixed.08:13
mdzlamont: both the old bug and the new bug?08:14
=== lamont hugs /dev/null
Kamionsladen: how would a CD determine which hard disk the BIOS was going to boot first?08:14
lamontthe patch from samuel needs an open(/dev/null) after his close, and the old close restored.08:14
lamontmdz: permission to upload?08:15
sladeneg.  Windows user leave the Ubuntu CD in.  Windows boots fine.   User pops CD and selects "install" before the timeout, Ubuntu installs.   Ubuntu reboots leaving the CD in, Ubuntu second-stage boots fine.08:15
mdzlamont: diff?08:15
Kamionsladen: just all feels like too much complexity for a very delicate area of code that MUST always work08:15
sladenKamion: it's exactly what grub on your hard disk does08:15
Kamionsladen: the current approach might not be so pretty, but it never fails08:15
Kamionno it's not ...08:16
=== azeem_ [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionthis is the question of how to get to grub08:16
Kamiongrub has a configuration file that the installer can populate; the CD does not08:16
lamontmdz: bide08:16
sladenKamion: The Disk Boot device is selected by mapping in the BIOS.  Disk access for loading the boot loaders is all managed through the BIOS and it magically gets taken care of.08:17
Kamionlet's revisit this for hoary, I don't want to countenance it for warty08:17
Kamionwe are in PREVIEW FREEZE :-)08:17
sladenKamion: (this is also the approach taken by the Windows Installer AFAICR)08:18
sladenKamion: this is a Hoary thing, don't worry!08:18
Kamiondude, Windows only works properly half the time if you install it on the first disk. :-)08:18
Kamiond-i works in all kinds of weirdo bizarre situations and makes mince-meat of them08:18
jdubman the mailing list is insane08:19
sladenKamion: Ah, I see your point.  User might install to  hdbX and have the grub MBR placed on hdb, but still have the BIOS set to boot from MBR on hda08:19
sivangKamion : i've even had less success rate with windoze than that :)08:19
Kamionthey might well want it to be a secondary operating system08:20
Kamionit's a pretty common scenario for people trying out Linux08:20
sladenKamion: v.unlikely, and the solution would probably be not to do the auto-reboot unless installation was in the 99.5% common case08:20
Kamion*so* not unlikely08:20
Kamionpeople do this all the time08:20
Kamionespecially people unlike us who don't know up-front that they're going to commit a computer to Linux08:20
=== sladen ponders when and who clears the FastBoot flag in the CMOS
Kamionit's also hard to work out from d-i what the case where auto-reboot will work actually is08:21
lamontmdz: diff in bug#157408:21
lamonter, 155908:21
lamontdamn bugziila08:21
mdzlamont: oh, so the ioctl works on /dev/null, too?08:23
lamontmdz: no.08:23
mdzlamont: what is that fd used for?08:23
lamontthe ioctl just makes sure that the tty we open to do the ioctl doesn't land on fd008:23
thomseriously, if anyone has a small nuclear device so i can do the world a favour and remove the mozilla foundation from the map, please do let me know08:24
lamontmdz: and then you don't wind up with tty1 showing up in ps aux output for a shell on /dev/tty2...08:24
jdubi have a package08:24
jdubwith 'libpolyp0' in it08:24
jduband i need to break out some glib2 and glib1 packages08:24
jdubso i'm thinking of libpolyp0-glib1.208:25
jdubis that ooky?08:25
lamonter, the open(/dev/null) just makes sure that the tty we open to do the ioctl doesn't land on fd008:25
mdzlamont: ewww08:26
lamontgotta just _LOVE_ tty's in the kernel;\08:26
mdzlamont: ok, go for it08:26
lamontthe fall back was to just not check anymore, and declare it "too hard"08:26
mdzjdub: I thought you wanted to kill glib108:27
thomso um, saving to "Desktop" doesn't work, but saving to /home/thom/Desktop does08:28
thomwhere the app is running as me, and appears to be presenting some form of "nice" interface08:28
thomOOOOK. so, when firefox says "Desktop", it means "users home directory"08:31
=== thom applauds
jdubmdz: well08:31
thombecause a consistent UI is a bad UI08:31
mdzthom: did you notice if PR1 fixed that weird icon problem in the save dialog?08:31
thommdz: it appears to, yes08:31
jdubmdz: i could be an utter fascist, and not even provide the glib1.2 bits08:31
mdzthom: cool08:31
mdzjdub: fascism R us08:31
=== jdub weighs it up
jdubwho really is going to write a new app using glib1.2 anyway08:32
jdubi need a separate glib2 package08:32
jdub^ cock or rock?08:32
jdubdbus does08:33
jdubdbus-glib-1-dev / dbus-glib-108:33
Kamionmdz,jdub: #1165?08:35
sladenjdub: provide glib2 and wait until/if somebody files a bug against not being able to do glib1 stuff ?08:35
mdzKamion: sorry, I thought I had already given it thumbs-up08:35
jdubsladen: mmm08:35
Kamionmdz: aha, ok, merging now08:35
mdzKamion: oh, I remember, I had meant to reassign it to Daniel because he was doing a discover1-data upload08:36
lamontKamion: 2.12-9 uploaded to sid08:36
Kamionmdz: he's done that now, hasn't he?08:36
mdzKamion: yes08:36
lamont"I am taking a penalty card"08:36
mdzKamion: I bet bugzilla gave me a list of matches or something, and I didn't notice that it hadn't gone through08:36
Kamionok, guess I'm safe to upload then08:36
=== mdz snarls an bugzilla
lamont   * The I-HATE-LINUX-TTY-HANDLING Release08:36
sladenwhere's the feature request for rewriting  https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/NNNNN  ->  show_bug.cgi?id=NNNNN  go ?08:38
KamionEnter new bug -> Bugzilla08:38
thomi'm sure that'd break something utterly unrelate08:39
thomit is a mozilla project, after all08:40
jdubthom: it would break firefox translations08:40
Kamionjdub: ... on Thursdays08:40
jdubKamion: hfsnw!08:40
=== jdub blinks and ubuntu-users hits 55 unread
jdubKamion: 'holy fucken shit no way'08:41
jdubKamion: download 'computer boy' :)08:41
elmothe firefox translations are already fucked08:41
mdzmaybe rewriting bugzilla URLs would fix them08:41
thomwell, i can't reproduce eugenia's firefox bug, surprisingly enough08:42
mdzdidn't she already admit that she installed some random extension?08:44
thommdz: not that i can see08:45
lamontmdz: fwiw, I'm stalling on #1433 to see what debian decides.08:52
thomok, i need a drink after the horror of firefox08:53
=== lamont bbiab
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-26-32.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
elmohmm, should /dev/loop* exist post-install or am I still stuck in some 2.4.xx world?09:06
Kamionelmo: is the loop module loaded?09:08
elmo /.dev/loop* exists ... and works.. ?09:09
Kamionudev. RUN AWAY09:09
elmoMAKEDEV loop makes them in /.dev/ too :/09:10
elmoanyway, anyone know the rpm equiv of dpkg -c ?09:10
elmoshort of rpm2cpio :)09:10
Kamion-qip for dpkg -I09:13
elmowrong fricking ISO anyway.  hateful IBM09:14
schweebquestion, sort of technical... but shouldn't your default locale be set to the language selection you chose on install?  I select en_US and it uses POSIX/C... this affects a lot of regional specific default settings, like paper size and stuff09:31
lamontKamion: care if I fix a couple other annoyances with buildd chroot scripts>?09:32
lamont<     ln -s mawk $TARGET/usr/bin/awk09:34
lamont>     ln -sf mawk $TARGET/usr/bin/awk09:34
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-26-32.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== elmo [~james@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== bob2 [rob@bob2.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzelmo: how did nvidia-kernel-source end up in restricted when it's not in a seed?09:39
mdzit should be pushed out to universe09:39
elmobecause it was part of the nvidia stuff that was uploaded in a bunch and I assumed/was told they'd all live in restricted09:40
mdzelmo: ok, please give it the boot09:43
mdzwe build the module with the kernel, so there's no need to try to support that mes09:43
elmook, I suppose I really should just have anastacia know about restricted09:44
lamontKamion: care if I take the debootstrap bug from you?09:50
lamonthope not... bz doesn't always ask before just committing away... :(09:51
lamontmdz: mind if we upload a new debootstrap that has warty.buildd in it?09:52
mdzlamont: what are those for, anyway?09:52
lamontbuildd chroot building09:52
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-26-32.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== elmo [~james@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== bob2 [rob@bob2.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamonter, creation, even09:52
lamontdebootstrap --variant=buildd warty chroot-warty http://....09:52
elmosudo needs to be Essential: yes or something similar09:53
lamontand you get the lean, mean, buildd chroot...09:53
=== netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-26-32.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== elmo [~james@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== bob2 [rob@bob2.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzlamont: what's different about the buildd chroot?09:54
lamontwell, base goes from that long list, down to >     base="apt binutils cpio cpp cpp-3.3 dpkg-dev g++ g++-3.3 gcc gcc-3.3 libc6-dev libdb4.2 libgdbm3 09:55
lamontlibstdc++5-3.3-dev linux-kernel-headers make patch perl perl-modules $additional"09:55
elmomdz: it's essential +build-essential09:55
elmo(in theory)09:55
mdzlamont: sure, why not09:55
mdzelmo: essential + build-essential + lamont's goodies for poking around in the chroot? ;-)09:55
lamontelmo: I do admit to adding buildd-essential and fakeroot to the required list...09:56
lamontmdz: no.09:56
lamontI install those _after_ I build the chroot, and not in the production chroots, in any case.09:56
elmodid anyone see my comment about sudo?09:56
lamontelmo: yes09:56
lamontwhat broke with it not Essential:?09:57
elmolamont: dude, there's no root password by default09:57
elmoand if you're cleaning out a machine, it's too easy to remove sudo by accident09:57
elmolike, err, I just did on one of ours09:57
lamontany root windows around, or is it thombot-switch time?09:58
elmono, no root windows, I'm trying to use thombot-obsoleting-ilo now09:59
lamontah, remote console good...09:59
lamontmdz: uploading new debootstrap, then.09:59
mdzlamont: ok10:00
mdzelmo: too easy? pfft10:01
elmohow's it not?10:01
mdzelmo: we let you remove your kernel, or grub, all sorts of things that will break your system but are not essential10:01
mdzif you set a root password, you should certainly be allowed to remove sudo10:01
mdzthere will certainly be people who want to10:02
mdzperhaps sudo prerm could refuse if your root password is locked10:02
lamontmdz: although sys/super/etc...10:12
lamontall universe, though.10:12
mdzecho "ROOT PASSWORD IS LOCKED -- THIS COULD BE BAD"; sleep 1010:12
elmomdz: I think that's a good plan10:15
elmomdz: actually it doesn't let you remove your kernel10:15
elmoI did that too, and that correctly errored out10:15
elmoand removing grub doesn't actually remove the bootloader10:15
elmomind if I file a bug on sudo suggesting the "ROOT PASSWORD IS LOCKED, CONTINUE TO SCREW YOURSELF?? (Y/y)" prompt in prerm?10:19
T-Boneelmo: nice wording ;)10:21
T-Boneand nice set of choices too (Y/y) ;)10:22
mdzelmo: purging grub leaves /boot/grub behind?10:28
mdzelmo: file away10:28
mdzelmo: I'd prefer that it not be interactive about it, but clearly it should warn somehow10:28
sivangdo we have mpg123 source package?10:30
sivangi can't seem to find any info of it using apt-cache, although it seems to be present. (many other programs depend on it)10:31
T-Bonempg123 is non-free10:31
T-Boneapt-get install mpg123 actually gets you mpg32110:31
T-Bonehmm sorry, wrong chan10:32
sivangi am doing security review, so this happens to be informative ;)10:33
sivangjdub : is ESOUND giving you trouble ? ;-)10:38
T-Bonesivang: anyway, what I said was connected to debian, it might be mostly crap wrt ubuntu :P hence my "wrong chan" mention10:38
jdubsivang: no, dude10:38
jdubsivang: apart from the mess i may need to clean up as i KILL IT UNTIL IT IS DEAD10:39
=== T-Bone gets scared
sivangjdub : anything I can help you with ? 10:40
jdubif you want to do a security review of polypaudio, that'd be great10:41
=== sivang is good at killing cockroaches
sivangjdub :i'll look at it, almost 1 pkg to go for 2004 universe10:42
Kamionlamont: go for it, on both counts10:45
Kamionmdz: how about sudo prerm refusing if it's being run within sudo?10:46
mdzroot has gone 184 days without being checked, check forced.10:46
mdzroot: ***** REBOOT LINUX *****                                                 10:46
mdzroot: 13861/124928 files (3.9% non-contiguous), 283383/497983 blocks10:46
mdz   ...fail!10:46
mdzI thought that bug was fixed10:46
mdz(fsck found no errors, made no changes, and yet it screamed at me to reboot)10:46
mdz(and rebooted)10:46
mdzKamion: ooh, that's an interesting one :-)10:46
mdzI like it10:46
schweebjdub: you seen this: "I don't know why and I'm not yet motivated to fix it since my views on esd are mostly unprintable."10:47
schweeb- Alan Cox10:47
schweebone of the best OSS quotes ever10:48
jdubwe're gonna do it this time10:48
jdubGNOME 2.10: DEATH OF ESOUND10:48
schweebthank god10:49
schweebesound sounds like pure shyte10:49
schweebalthough, alsa's dmix sounds pretty neat, but I couldn't get it working perfectly... some audio corruption10:50
jdubalmost impossible to configure10:50
=== jdub wonders how impossible it would be to autoconfigure
schweebcan't be any harder for a dev to set up than a gstreamer pipleine, heh10:50
schweebit's a lot of routing the stuff between sources, really10:51
schweebit needs a lot more clean documentation, rather than just the simple "works for me this way on this hardware" solutions I could find10:52
Kamion- fix broken stupidity11:02
Kamionthom in a subtle mood, I see :)11:03
sivangjdub : can't find the polypaudio package. No source yet?11:05
jdubsivang: only just uploaded, so NEW11:05
sivangjdub : k11:06
=== sivang is updating pkg lists.
sivangcome to think of it, it's 30mins minimun ;) if to recall what Kamion once said11:07
Kamionthe NEW queue is processed by hand, that's in addition to the usual archive delays11:08
jdubelmo: help me CRUSH esound!11:09
=== T-Bone *loves* esound!
lamontsivang: in the worst case, non-NEW source can take 33 minutes to show up.  And binaries can take up to (worst case) 33 minutes from the time they are uploaded.11:11
=== T-Bone ducks
lamont+ whatever manual handling is needed.11:11
=== lamont hands jdub T-Bone to use to beat esound to death. :-)
jdubbit messy11:12
seb128jdub, mdz: here ?11:14
seb128we have a problem with nautilus-cd-burner11:15
seb128Lock drive while burning when using HA11:15
seb128^ that's great11:16
seb128but ...11:16
seb128        * configure.in:11:16
seb128        Require hal with lock primitives.11:16
seb128-> 0.2.9811:16
seb128(we have 0.2.92)11:16
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
lamontKamion: you still about?11:20
Mithrandirthom: nope, not yet.11:22
Mithrandirmdz: ping?11:22
Kamionlamont: yep11:24
lamontKamion: is there somewhere trivial that I could grab a set of scripts that would allow me to create a ubuntu d-i cd?11:25
lamontthat is, how does an archive turn into a bootable cd image???11:25
Kamionlamont: think "pain and suffering"11:25
=== m_tthew [~matt@c-67-182-148-136.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontKamion: No.....11:26
Kamionlamont: you can *try* with http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/code/debian-cd.tar.bz2 and colin.watson@canonical.com--2004/cdimage--mainline--011:26
=== lamont is trying to turn T-Bone loose on warty/ia64, you see....
Kamionlamont: you'll need germinate too11:26
Mithrandirmdz: unping11:27
Kamionbut it's very much a self-assembly kit right now11:27
=== lamont grumbles
mdzMithrandir: pong11:27
mdzMithrandir: unpong11:27
mdzseb128: hmm, I remember npmccallum had reservations about newer hal11:28
Kamionthe cdimage tree currently contains, at top level:11:28
Kamionbin  britney  debian-cd  ftp  germinate  local  log  scratch  secret  www  {arch}11:28
Kamionbin is in the cdimage--mainline--0 arch archive above11:28
seb128mdz: he said that's a bit late, but we are stucked11:28
Kamionbritney, local, secret you can ignore11:28
Kamiondebian-cd is in the tarball above11:28
Kamionftp is the archive11:29
seb128mdz: upstream just did that in a right way ... and I've no real idea on how to do this in a different one with the old hal11:29
Kamiongerminate is, well, germinate11:29
mdzseb128: will you test it with the new hal?11:29
Kamionlog, www are for publishing; scratch is temporary11:29
seb128mdz: I'm not uploading the new hal for the moment, perhaps better to talk with npmccallum and pitti about this11:29
Kamionlamont: when I actually get an arch archive of debian-cd, I'll put something together which stands a better chance of just working, but for now the above is about the best I can do ...11:30
lamontKamion: that's a start, to be sure.11:30
lamontso with the tarball, you don't actually have to arch-get anything, yes?11:30
mdzseb128: agreed, but if you would test the new nautilus-cd-burner locally with the new hal, that would be great11:30
mdznpmccallum: are you here?11:30
Kamionlamont: the tarball is only debian-cd11:30
Kamionlamont: feel free to make arch mirrors of cdimage somewhere T-Bone can see, though; there's nothing private there11:30
lamontKamion: ah, OK11:31
Kamionoh, and germinate, I guess, as long as it's only my current archive (Scott's old one has the internal wiki password in older revisions)11:31
seb128mdz: ok11:31
lamontKamion: was wondering about germinate's status... 11:32
lamontmdz: have I mentioned how much I hate flushes?11:32
Kamionin order to do ia64, you'll need to use the 'hints' facility to override the right kernels into germinate11:32
=== lamont fixes libopenhbci
mdzlamont: I thought we were finished with that business11:32
=== T-Bone feels like he'll have to read some docs
lamontmdz: it's the little turds that are annoying.11:33
Kamionand you'll have to edit miscellaneous bits inside debian-cd; look for 'amd64', 'i386', and 'powerpc', ignore anything mentioning 'potato', 'woody', or 'sarge', and you'll get an idea what needs changed11:33
Kamionmdz: we'd better be, we have mirrors now11:34
Kamionmdz: a flush would totally shag the mirrors :)11:34
mdzKamion: we have users, too :-)11:34
Kamionmdz: quite11:34
thomMithrandir: ah well11:39
lamontmdz: gnucash and several others should start building in about 25 minutes11:40
mdzlamont: excellent, thanks11:41
lamontKamion: _we're_ done with flushes.  _I'm_ not done with _CLEANUP_ from the last ones.11:41
Mithrandirthom: I'll prod upstream11:41
thomMithrandir: it seems they changed the layout and stuff quite drasticly, was just wondering if you'd experienced it yet11:41
lamont(since i386 builds arch-all, anything where one exists and not the other requires tender loving clubbing)11:42
Kamionlamont: heh11:42
lamontand remember, one should _never_ use vi to fix a .changes file.11:42
Mithrandirthom: ew, ok.11:42
thommdz: what did I do to make you hate me? first mozilla, now php? ;-)11:42
mdzthom: nobody likes PHP :-(11:43
lamontelmo: is anything gonna bitch that there are now two _i386.changes files for libopenhbci? :(11:43
mdzthom: I figured you might at least have exposure, from Apache-land11:43
thommdz: nup. not complaining, mind. just commenting :-)11:43
thommore so from working for a webhost before this :-)11:43
lamontmdz: as long as you don't give him ocaml, he should forgive you.11:44
npmccallummdz: sorry, I was at dinner.  Whats up with hal? seb128?11:49
seb128hey npmccallum 11:49
seb128<seb128> we have a problem with nautilus-cd-burner11:49
seb128<seb128> 2.8.3:11:49
seb128<seb128> Lock drive while burning when using HA11:49
seb128<seb128> ^ that's great11:49
seb128<seb128> but ...11:49
seb128<seb128>         * configure.in:11:49
seb128<seb128>         Require hal with lock primitives.11:49
seb128<seb128> -> 0.2.9811:50
seb128<seb128> (we have 0.2.92)11:50
seb128upstream did the lock for n-c-b in a right way and released today n-c-b 2.8.311:50
npmccallumwhich requires a newer hal11:50
seb128<seb128> <seb128> -> 0.2.9811:50
=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-243-188.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdznpmccallum: also, what's the status of openoffice.org issues?11:50
sivangmdz : got my mail?11:51
mdzsivang: yes, thanks11:51
sivangmdz : no prob. feel free to comment me about it.11:51
npmccallummdz: I'm doing those tonight, It takes a big chunk of time to do those (ooo takes forever)11:51
npmccallumseb128: I have no problem with a newer hal, though it will require a newer dbus11:51
sivanganyways boys, I must take a break, that nasty virus is back again.. (dizzy dizzy...) lamont you ok btw?11:52
seb128npmccallum: do you see any other solution for n-c-b ?11:52
npmccallumseb128: just our own locking implimentation... but that won't have nearly the ammount of test as hal will11:53
sivanganyway, hope he feeling alright ;) night everybody Zzz..11:54
seb128npmccallum: what do you think it's better ?11:54
mdznpmccallum: make sure that it meets the deadline for sounder 911:54
lamontsivang: never quite sure...11:54
npmccallumseb128: I think the right way to fix it is to do what upstream is doing11:55
npmccallumseb128: there isn't any way to fix it without a fairly major change (and it is a fairly major bug)11:56
seb128yeah, I agree11:56
=== trukulo [~trukulo@docsis65-46.menta.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
npmccallummdz: I still need to know what to do with the ubuntu-sounds package (license issue)12:00

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