[12:01] mdz: do you need me to do anything else WRT #1080 or can I remove myself from the Cc list? [12:02] elmo: I think you can safely remove yourself [12:02] hey, has anyone got a smart bookmarks thing for warty BTS? [12:02] mdz: k, thanks [12:02] [+bye ;)] === Kamion has a ubug keyword [12:04] I don't understand #1561 - it WFM(tm)? [12:04] I mean I can "fix" it, but I'd like to know why it's broken for you guys [12:04] what would "fixing" involve? [12:04] mizar:[~] host home.ubuntu.com [12:04] home.ubuntu.com CNAME www.no-name-yet.com [12:04] www.no-name-yet.com does not exist, try again [12:05] shiri 23:04 ~ % host home.ubuntu.com [12:05] home.ubuntu.com is an alias for www.no-name-yet.com. [12:05] www.no-name-yet.com has address 82.211.81.132 [12:05] mizar:[~] host www.no-name-yet.com [12:05] www.no-name-yet.com does not exist, try again [12:05] kamion: not CNAME-ing [12:06] titan.is.co.za (196.33.171.36) www.no-name-yet.com -> 82.211.81.132 [12:06] demeter.is.co.za (196.26.5.8) www.no-name-yet.com -> 82.211.81.132 [12:06] jupiter.is.co.za (196.4.160.3) www.no-name-yet.com -> 82.211.81.132 [12:06] all 3 NSes are giving me the right answer? [12:07] don't use host for debugging DNS, use dig. :) [12:07] or 'dnstracer -o' [12:07] [for slightly less "REAL MEN USE CAT < /DEV/AUDIO" maschoism ;-)] [12:07] heh [12:08] never heard of dnstracer before [12:08] mdz: what's dnstracer/dig saying for you? [12:09] mizar:[~] host www.no-name-yet.com demeter.is.co.za [12:09] www.no-name-yet.com A 82.211.81.132 [12:09] mizar:[~] host www.no-name-yet.com jupiter.is.co.za [12:09] www.no-name-yet.com A 82.211.81.132 [12:09] mizar:[~] host www.no-name-yet.com titan.is.co.za [12:09] www.no-name-yet.com A 82.211.81.132 [12:09] mizar:[~] host www.no-name-yet.com [12:09] www.no-name-yet.com does not exist, try again [12:09] what the hell [12:09] elmo: dnstracer is useless, dig gives the same results as host [12:10] hmm [12:10] no-name-yet.com. 4759 IN SOA ns0.blackcatnetworks.co.uk. hostmaster.blackcatnetworks.co.uk. 2004081000 21600 7200 604800 86400 [12:10] dig returns that for an SOA [12:10] what's useless about dnstracer? *pout* [12:10] should that be ns1.is.co.za? [12:10] rather than ns0.blackcatnetworks.co.uk? [12:10] yeah, it certainly shouldn't be blackcat [12:10] is the domain moving/has it moved recently? [12:10] no, I never bothered [12:10] probably the SOA is still cached [12:10] since we migrated away from it [12:10] and yet they've deleted the zone [12:11] querying the .za servers gives a reasonable SOA [12:11] who's deleted it? [12:11] blackcat have never hosted nny.com [12:11] then where did I get that SOA record from? [12:12] or was that in the zone even though it was served from is.co.za? [12:13] I've no idea where you got it from [12:15] tsig.c:293: REQUIRE(targetp != ((void *)0) && *targetp == ((void *)0)) failed. [12:15] zsh: abort nsupdate [12:15] rock on [12:16] so canonical.com and ubunutlinux.org are served by blackcatnetworks, and nny by is.co.za? [12:16] yes [12:16] we have dynamic dns setup with blackcat, so all our critical domains are with them [12:17] it's very odd [12:17] .no-name-yet.com resolves [12:17] it's specifically www which is fucked [12:17] here's the lovely dnstracer output: [12:18] mizar:[~] dnstracer -o www.no-name-yet.com [12:18] Tracing to www.no-name-yet.com via 192.168.0.1, timeout 15 seconds [12:18] 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) [12:18] which queries my local DNS server and then quits [12:18] oh, that's interestingly broken [12:18] anyway, it could be that I broke the CNAME of home.ubuntu.com but since 'update delete' is broken.. well I'm a little stuck [12:18] it does the same with any other server I point it to [12:19] hmm, not any [12:19] but my ISPs [12:19] workrave [12:22] mdz: can we import #269157? I'd like to see if it can be fixed before warty as it'd suck to ship with an nsupdate that's add-only [12:26] mdz: Today I uploaded a new hal package to fix a buffer overflow (#1450); nautilus-cd-burner contains exactly the same flaw, can I upload a new version? [12:26] mdz: it's already fixed in upstream's cvs, he also read my message on utopia [12:32] elmo: imported [12:33] pitti: yes [12:33] mdz: interdiff is www.piware.de/ncb.segfault.diff [12:33] mdz: okay, thanks [12:35] can dpkg extract a single file from a binary package? [12:36] don't think so [12:36] you can dpkg -x to a tmpdir tho [12:36] npmccallum: indirectly [12:37] npmccallum: you can do that manually using ar [12:37] npmccallum: dpkg --fsys-tarfile | tar [12:37] --fsys-tarfile [12:37] Extracts the filesystem tree data from a binary package and sends it to standard output in tar format. Together with tar(1) this can [12:37] be used to extract a particular file from a package archive. [12:37] npmccallum: ar pf foo.deb data.tar.gz | tar xvzf ./file [12:37] great, thanks! [12:37] TIMTOWTDI [12:46] Kamion: is there any way to convince parted to resize a partition, ignoring the filesystem? [12:46] parted doesn't know how to resize my root fs on this machine [12:46] but resize2fs does [12:46] so I could shrink the filesystem first, and then the partition, if I could convince a tool to do the latter [12:46] fdisk can do it [12:47] fdisk will let me _delete_ it and re-add it; that's much scarier :-) [12:47] thats all parted does when it resizes it [12:47] all you are doing is removing the sector referances from the partition table [12:48] npmccallum: parted resizing the filesystem too [12:48] resizes [12:48] I know [12:48] parted is paranoid about it === jdub reads meeting logs [12:48] fdisk is shoot-yourself-in-the-foot compliant [12:48] I meant that parted does the two steps seperately [12:48] mdz: not that I know of, but I'm no parted guru [12:48] the partition table really just tells the os the bounds of the FS [12:49] mdz: you can't force parted to do it [12:49] mdz: though, you can install pyparted and have access to the lower level api [12:49] mdz: you could do it that way ;) [12:50] parted works in megabytes, resize2fs in filesystem blocks (4k), and fdisk in cylinders [12:50] that is a recipe for MDZ DATA GO BYE-BYE === jdub fears single universe with non-free stuff [12:50] mdz: only if you do a fsck on the new setup [12:50] seb128: dude === Kamion fears the enormous d-i manual [12:50] seb128: did you see about-me on ddl? [12:50] http://topos.ath.cx:8080/~diego/about-me-v2.png [12:51] well, the reason I want to shrink it is so that I can put Ubuntu in the free space [12:51] mdz: deleting/re-adding the partition doesn't do anything to the data [12:51] and transition over [12:51] jdub: I've not read this thread yet [12:51] looks nice [12:51] mdz: if you screw up the partition remake, just remake it again... just don't reboot until you know you have it right [12:52] if you reboot, fsck will try to fix the filesystem in the new partition bounds, which will corrupt data [12:52] npmccallum: it's my root filesystem; I can only get the kernel to re-read the partition table if I reboot [12:53] mdz: do it from the install cd [12:53] no resize2fs on the install CD [12:53] mdz: using an NPTL enabled glibc introduces a new set of problems called "stability issues". :( [12:53] thats dumb [12:53] I'd need to bring it, and its libraries over into the ramdisk... [12:53] get a live cd then... knoppix or my favorite: SystemRescue [12:53] npmccallum: dude, there's only so much space for multiple implementations of everything [12:53] I wish parted just didn't suck about this [12:54] mdz: its not parted that sucks about this, its e2fs [12:54] they went and reimplemented libe2fs [12:54] npmccallum: there's already a library that does this stuff [12:54] and some subset of its functionality is duplicated in parted [12:54] mdz: upstream are actively talking about a panel applet for dynamic device mount/unmount [12:54] the e2fs guys told andrew clausen they had no interest in working with him [12:55] Kamion: I'm not criticizing the choice to have it on the liveCD, just that is suck for matt to not have it there, I know that space is limited :) [12:56] ITYM install CD [12:57] it is on the live CD [12:58] but this machine's CD-ROM drive is old, and can't read CD-RWs, and I'm low on CD-Rs :-) [01:16] This document contains installation instructions for the Ubuntu 4.10 system, for the Intel x86 (i386) architecture. It also contains pointers to more information and information on how to make the most of your new Debian system. [01:16] hm, well, it's a start of sorts ... === Mithrandir goes to bed. Frustrated. [01:24] night, guys! === pitti goes to bed. Exhausted from Tae Kwon Do and a one hour remote debugging session === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:32] Kamion: do you know what Tobias Engvall's bug is? === jdub replies in length to the epiphany/firefox q [02:48] jdub: with a tear-stained letter? [02:50] jdub: are we allowed to reply that we suck at picking the non-desktop/non-translated/not-integrated browser ? :p [02:50] jdub: is there a magic button somewhere which can turn the GNOME open file dialog into something you can type a path into? [02:50] ctrl+L [02:51] ah, thanks [02:51] works in nautilus too [02:59] argh [02:59] you guys gave half answers so it could turn into an argument ;) [03:00] I didn't reply ! [03:00] we make the wrong choice, I don't want to reply :p [03:01] heh [03:01] sorry seb128 :-) [03:01] seb128: i will link up my answer when i mail the ephy guys :-) [03:01] seb128: i take full responsibility ;) [03:01] I still don't catch why we are getting with a non-integrated browser === jamesh [~james@203-59-87-199.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:01] we loose translations [03:01] and we don't win any cool feature [03:02] seb128: brand and familiarity. [03:02] seb128: see my reply. ;) [03:02] bah [03:02] this decision sucks [03:02] familiarity ? [03:02] that's not a good argument to drop the desktop integration [03:03] well, the world is familiar with firefox, not with gnome [03:03] people are not familiar with evolution neither ... [03:03] yeah [03:03] remember, i'm not saying this from a point of full agreement here :-) [03:03] they have a whole new desktop, what's so different with the browser ? [03:04] seb128: firefox has a very strong brand, very strong momentum [03:04] maybe we should talk about it after you read my reply [03:04] if everybody say that, yes :) [03:04] ok === seb128 reads [03:04] dude, it's beyond linux distribution choices :-) [03:05] seb128: web designers are very conservative, despite advocating the use of standards [03:05] seb128: if a website doesn't work well and you tell them you are using Epiphany, they will probably tell you they don't support it [03:05] seb128: they've got a much better chance of looking into the problem if you are using Firefox [03:05] (which is about as good as you can get, given that IE isn't an option :) [03:06] that's the same engine, isn't it ? [03:06] yes [03:06] so that's not an argument :p [03:06] yes it is. [03:07] jdub: "to compete with Firefox on features," [03:08] jdub: which cool feature is missing in epiphany ? [03:09] seb128: firefox is getting a lot of third party support via extensions and so on, and has features that are familiar to browser users and are appropriate to enterprise deployments. [03:09] BTW epiphany's "familiarity, depth of community" is not going to happen. If everybody picks firefox that's ruined for epiphany [03:10] but remember, 'everybody picks firefox' isn't just a linux distribution issue [03:10] seb128: also, some of the reasons for choosing OpenOffice apply here [03:10] since OpenOffice runs on more than just Linux [03:10] lots of people are choosing firefox totally independently of any interest in open source or linux :) [03:11] jamesh: the main reason for that is that abiword sucks at opening word formats, etc [03:11] i know companies who are planning deployments of firefox for security [03:11] they are not even remotely interested in linux desktops or open source ;) [03:11] seb128: that's not the main reason for OOo [03:11] it's brand and familiarity again [03:11] ok === randy_ [~randy@woodstock-7-726.woodstock.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:12] I just think that's a hard slap in the face for epiphany [03:12] and it'll not get better with time [03:12] (note that i don't fully agree with all of this myself, but i understand the reasons behind it) [03:12] sure [03:12] same slap in the face for gnumeric/abiword [03:13] gotta be adaptable :) [03:13] yes, but these are not GNOME components [03:13] they are not officiallly 'in' the desktop [03:13] but that's always a tenuous issue ;) [03:13] *everybody* shipped evolution [03:13] *everybody* ships gaim [03:13] etc. [03:14] *nobody* ships epiphany :p === schweeb [~chris@schweeb.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:14] red hat are shipping epiphany and putting resources behind it [03:14] they are not shipping firefox as default [03:14] good :) === jdub has been talking to havoc about it [03:15] not sure about the importance of the brand and familiarity plan (big importance apparently) [03:15] but on the technical one (integration, translation, release cycle, ...) we are loosing with firefox [03:16] seb128: it's not cast in stone, we can change in future. [03:16] yes, but still [03:16] seb128: i'm going to be talking to the ephy guys about how that can actually happen [03:17] currently most of the french user complain about the browser being in english [03:18] keeping mozilla-firefox and the ton of locale-* packages is a pain [03:18] +in sync [03:18] seb128: this is cool... [03:18] http://zzrough.free.fr/emifreq.php [03:18] the applet display is bong though [03:19] yeah, one more cool applet :) [03:20] remember that all applets are at least slightly crack ridden [03:20] especially new ones like trashapplet :) [03:21] yeah [03:22] jdub: any news about a NEEDINFO state in bugzilla ? :) [03:22] it would make the bug list really more easy to read [03:23] the other solution is close -> reopen with details :) [03:25] seb128: i can't do that, we'll need to ping justdave - could you? [03:25] mdz: happy for gftp to shift to supported? [03:27] seb128: why do you need NEEDINFO? :) [03:27] jdub: absolutely [03:27] jdub: that's great news... if you have to ftp, gftp rocks [03:27] jamesh: to keep track of which bugs are blocked on a response from the submitter [03:27] jamesh: because a big part of my huge list of bugs is waiting for details [03:28] makes it easier to revisit them periodically [03:28] mdz: I usually leave such bugs in UNCONFIRMED state [03:28] schweeb: this is a move from desktop -> supported, so it's kind of a demotion ;) [03:28] if there is enough information to identify the problem, then I move it to NEW [03:28] and how to know on which bug you have worked or not ? [03:29] o_O [03:29] it was in desktop [03:29] jamesh: but if it's confirmed but pending on more info... === schweeb didn't notice [03:29] jdub: I'll mail justdave/ubuntu-devel to ask if that's easy to ge [03:29] get [03:31] jdub/seb128: I might find NEEDINFO if it automatically reverted to the previous state when the reporter provided more info [03:31] as it is, it is a bit of a black hole [03:32] jamesh: we don't have an UNCONFIRMED state in our bugzilla === jamesh finds NEEDINFO too similar to the old "LATER" resolution [03:34] NEEDINFO is not a resolution [03:34] that's the point [03:40] BTW time to sleep [03:40] 'night guys [03:42] night seb! [03:42] later jdub, later guys [03:45] oh [03:45] sweet [03:45] building ephy against firefox is supported now [03:45] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/epiphany-list/2004-September/msg00049.html === jdub bugs it [03:46] boh [03:46] target isn't listed on the new bugs page === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:34] mdz: around? [05:48] he is probably trying the desktop migration again :) [06:19] morning guys [06:24] yo fabbione === doko [doko@dsl-084-057-062-014.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:25] mdz, jdub: so what should we do with X? [07:25] I really really really unsuggest to wait too long to upload [07:26] packages in external repositories do not get the same amount of tests [07:28] that's how i feel, thus my suggestion to upload it [07:28] we can always revert the changes in a new upload [07:30] jdub: i agree.. mdz doesn't [07:30] you two have to agree on it [07:31] i think mdz is sleeping now [07:31] so that means we need to wait another bunch of hours [07:34] yeah [07:36] justdave: whatcha think about my bz requests? [08:21] jdub: here [08:21] fabbione: if you're ready to upload, go for it [08:21] mdz: I was ready to upload 2 days ago :-) [08:21] fabbione: what's "sleep"? [08:21] which version do you want in? [08:22] fabbione: what are the choices? 19 vs. 20? [08:22] ubuntu19 or ubuntu20? [08:22] yes [08:22] I haven't even seen a changelog for 20 [08:22] but I have tested 19 [08:22] ok wait a sec. [08:23] http://people.no-name-yet.com/~fabbione/changelog [08:25] mdz, jdub: that's for you two [08:27] fabbione: what is this fpwll stuff? [08:27] mdz: it's the video output on ppc or something [08:28] for TV out on some ATI-based PowerPCs. [08:31] fabbione: that sounds like a feature to me [08:31] what is it doing in a strictly bug fix release? === trukulo [~trukulo@docsis65-46.menta.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:31] mdz: the ati driver has code for it. It is more complicate to remove that part of the code than just add 2 lines diff [08:33] there is a specific patch just for that? [08:33] yes [08:33] where can I download the .diff.gz? [08:33] wc -l 099k_ati_use_fwpll.diff [08:33] 82 099k_ati_use_fwpll.diff [08:34] probably on people [08:34] daniels did an upload there i guess [08:34] otherwise i need to do it [08:35] http://people.no-name-yet.com/~daniels/xfree86/ [08:35] there [08:35] brb [08:37] re [08:45] mdz: the .diff on people doesn't contain my changes [08:45] just that you know [09:11] mdz, jdub: any decision? [09:12] fabbione: go [09:12] mdz: u20 ? [09:12] yes, if you are confident [09:12] I am not familiar enough with X to judge the changes, but I hope nothing breaks [09:12] yes. we can always revert back if something really goes banana [09:12] we are in ultra freeze mode right now [09:12] that's why we need people to test stuff on a large scale asap [09:13] so changes need to be more minimal [09:13] mdz: i know we are in ultra freeze [09:13] but that's why we discuss bug fixes [09:13] and i want to have at least the 10 bugs fixed before Final [09:13] anyway-- [09:13] which bug does debian/patches/099j_ati_r4xx_support.diff fix? [09:13] i will upload ubuntu19 and 5 minutes after ubuntu20 [09:14] mdz: it was discussed somewhere on the mailing lists and irc [09:14] you can just upload both at the same time [09:14] or just 20 [09:14] mdz: i don't remember a bugzilla entry for it [09:14] mdz: ok [09:15] mdz: i am also waiting 1298 submitter to test === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:46] Morning === Mithrandir tears evolution's head off [09:51] I ROCK === Mithrandir jumps up and down [09:51] (on evolution's head) [09:52] I wonder whose idea it was for evolution-data-server to ship it's own, private copy of libdb. [09:57] jdub: any idea how much will break if I get seb128 to upload an evolution-data-server that does not use it's private libdb, but the shared one? [09:59] Mithrandir: what version does it ship? [09:59] 4.1 [09:59] which breaks in, well, interesting ways on amd64 [10:00] Mithrandir: very strongly recommend we don't [10:00] one sec [10:00] will rationalise [10:00] just have to order dinner [10:00] jdub: do you have any other suggestion? [10:01] ok [10:01] sorry [10:01] back [10:02] Mithrandir: we can't, because evo needs the same version of libdb so you can copy around contacts [10:02] Mithrandir: surely RH have a patch for this? [10:03] no idea yet, I've been chasing this bug from evo to e-d-s to orbit (which was a dead track), over some corba shit, a bit more around e-d-s and now finally to libdb and wondered wtf it was failing [10:03] I discovered ripping out the static version fixes the problem on amd64 [10:03] we could see if updating the private libdb 4.1 to the latest version fixes the problem [10:05] it shows itself by blowing up if you use a free-thread access to the db. === trukulo [~trukulo@docsis65-46.menta.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:08] mdz: the r4xx stuff adds support for any card newer than the 9800 (last of the r3xx series, effectively) [10:09] daniels: is this amd64 support as well? [10:09] Mithrandir: amd64 already works fine on ati [10:09] Mithrandir: but yes, r4xx will work ok on amd64 ;) [10:10] good [10:10] i think i've dug up some halfway sensible code for amd64 vbe [10:10] woo, that's great. [10:10] daniels: ubuntu20 is up in main [10:10] fabbione: people.nny.com/~fabbione? [10:10] daniels: MAIN archive [10:11] oh wow, main [10:11] shit [10:11] not bad, just surprising :) [10:11] daniels: again.. next time read my activity report for 2004-09-20 [10:11] the "changelog" section ;) [10:12] heh, I'd only just cleared warty-changes when I said 'oh wow, main' [10:12] canonical-activity is a little further down the list [10:12] brb [10:13] 01:13 < clee> btw, ubuntu is totally sucking. [10:13] 01:13 < clee> I hate having everything just work. [10:13] nice work, guys :) === seb128 [~seb128@AToulouse-105-1-5-13.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:15] morning [10:17] hi seb. [10:18] seb128: evolution-data-server seems to not ship clean source ; libdb/dist includes config.log among other things [10:18] hum, I've not checked [10:18] is that a problem ? [10:19] oh man, fglrx doesn't do xrandr? that's so much arse [10:19] seb128: it's ugly, nothing more. [10:19] ok :) [10:19] I'll check that [10:20] seb128: I'd really like you to apply a small patch as well -- it thinks amd64 doesn't support fast mutexes [10:22] better to bug report upstream with the patch and wait for comments at this point of the release cycle [10:22] where is the patch ? [10:23] in libdb/dist/aclocal/mutex.ac; #if (defined(i386) || defined(__i386__)) && defined(__GNU [10:23] C__) [10:23] should be changed to include || defined(__x86_64__) [10:24] do you know how to regenerate the configure script? When I try to, it blows up :/ [10:27] seb128: I think the trashdir patch for trash applet is pretty much done, btw. [10:27]