/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2004/10/04/#ubuntu-devel.txt

seb128	jdub: happy with a dbus&hal update at this point ?	12:02
jdub	seb128: if they go in soon, and mdz is happy with it, then it's a necessary evil :)	12:03
seb128	ok, I'll look on this tomorrow so	12:03
jdub	cool	12:04
Kamion	what's a good name for the udeb spat out by shadow that asks questions about the initial user account to create?	12:14
Kamion	it's kind of a clone of passwd.postinst but doesn't have most of the other code in passwd	12:14
thom	adduser ?	12:15
Kamion	initial-username.udeb?	12:15
thom	hmm, no. too confusing	12:15
Kamion	and deb/udeb names share a namespace anyway	12:15
thom	initial-user.udeb since it does more than just a username	12:15
Kamion	if it ever went into Debian it would in principle ask all the questions from passwd.config, which has stuff like "do you want md5 passwords?"	12:16
Kamion	passwd-config.udeb?	12:16
thom	WFM	12:16
Kamion	CONSENSUS	12:17
Kamion	woohoo	12:17
mdz	jdub: would you create ubuntu-security-announce?	12:18
jdub	ok	12:19
thom	Kamion: g	12:19
Kamion	hm, I think I shall delete the root password question entirely from passwd-config.udeb; even if you wanted to set a root password, storing it in the debconf database across reboot would be evil!	12:22
thom	mdz: for tbird i'll just upload a port of new debian with our additions for amd64 tomorrow; i don't think a backport is beneficial right now. waddya think?	12:24
trukulo	when ubuntu service pack 2 will be released?	12:27
trukulo	lol	12:27
trukulo	ups, sorry, that's devel channel	12:27
Kamion	of course, the user password ends up in the debconf database over reboot ...	12:29
Kamion	mdz: you have a problem with that? it'll be deleted as soon as the user's added	12:29
mdz	Kamion: config.dat or password.dat?	12:31
Kamion	mdz: there's no such distinction in cdebconf	12:32
Kamion	sorry, yeah, the cdebconf database over reboot	12:32
mdz	Kamion: :'-( <-- baby jesus	12:32
Kamion	yarrrrrrr	12:33
mdz	Kamion: is the cdebconf database world-readable?	12:33
mdz	if so, can we make it not so?	12:33
Kamion	/var/log/debian-installer/cdebconf/questions.dat is world-readable post-install	12:33
Kamion	it would be a pain in the arse to make it not so, since it's useful for bug reports	12:33
mdz	is there any reason why it needs to be?	12:33
trukulo	can't you save password md5'ed ?	12:33
mdz	there is other stuff in /var/log/debian-installer which is not world-readable	12:33
mdz	like syslog	12:33
Kamion	but we could make it not world-readable if we were willing to suffer the support load	12:33
mdz	trukulo: not without extending adduser to support that	12:34
=== ddaa [~david@nemesis.xlii.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
trukulo	mdz: ok	12:34
Kamion	actually, passwd.config doesn't use adduser for that part	12:34
Kamion	it does adduser --disabled-password, then its own evil chpasswd hack	12:34
=== ddaa points the Monty Python finger and scream "splitters!"
Kamion	mdz: would you be happy for a hash of the password to be in a world-readable file? I'm uneasy about it myself	12:35
Kamion	I don't think the unencrypted password should be in any file, world-readable or not	12:36
mdz	Kamion: not really	12:36
mdz	but I'd be even happier with a hash in a non-world-readable file than with a password in a non-world-readable file	12:36
Kamion	I think the latter's right out	12:36
Kamion	we might as well store /etc/shadow unencrypted at that point	12:36
mdz	that's what we'd be doing with the former	12:37
trukulo	what about saving password not in database, but in a different file and then remove it later?	12:37
Kamion	no, I mean the passwords in /etc/shadow unencrypted :)	12:37
Kamion	trukulo: too much work for the time period	12:37
mdz	Kamion: me too :-)	12:37
trukulo	Kamion: right	12:37
mdz	I have no qualms about making questions.dat root-only if we're going to put authentication data in there	12:38
Kamion	trukulo: the only way this is even feasible in the TWO DAYS I have to implement this is to use debconf :)	12:38
mdz	we can solve the support issue if needed	12:38
Kamion	all right	12:38
mdz	I'm still a little queasy about putting the password in there	12:38
Kamion	then I have to chroot to run perl	12:38
=== mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
trukulo	only two days? then non-readable, as you said before	12:38
Kamion	non-readable hash is equivalent to /etc/shadow, clearly ok	12:38
trukulo	but if you accomplished that, then people don't need to restart after installation? going into X automatically?	12:39
Kamion	they still need to reboot after the first stage	12:39
Kamion	I don't think that's negotiable; you need to be sure that the boot loader works	12:39
trukulo	but no passwords at first boot after install, that's very usable	12:40
trukulo	Kamion: i agree, i prefer forcing to reboot after configuration	12:40
Kamion	[personally I don't really see that it's much different from the current case, but the guy who writes the paycheque wins, as lamont sometimes says ...]	12:40
trukulo	:)	12:41
trukulo	little diferences like these, makes a good look for users	12:41
Kamion	I don't even see the usability win myself :)	12:41
trukulo	nor do i, but remember that most people thins graphical installers are better than ncurses	12:42
=== Kamion ponders setting a 'hash' flag on passwd/user-password once the password is hashed
Kamion	to distinguish	12:43
Kamion	Joey Hess has observed in the past that I'm one of the few people who uses custom debconf flags in maintainer scripts ...	12:43
Kamion	(with a reaction like "wow, you actually do that?", IIRC)	12:43
trukulo	i'm not a programmer, i'm only sysadmin :) so i can't understand what you talking 'bout very well	12:44
Kamion	just thinking out loud	12:44
trukulo	that's good technique	12:45
trukulo	when we talk bout we thinking, we're thinking better	12:45
trukulo	k, i'll shut up, don't want to make noise here	12:45
mdz	jdub: ubuntu-security-announce ready? I'd like to follow up with a hyperlink to subscribe	12:45
jdub	sec	12:46
jdub	sorry, didn't think it was immediate request	12:46
=== jdub is eating breakfast;)
=== trukulo thinks bout going to bed 0:40 here
Kamion	# Use perl rather than echo, to avoid the password	12:47
Kamion	# showing in the process table. (However, this is normally	12:47
Kamion	# only called when first booting the system, when root has no	12:47
Kamion	# password at all, so that should be an unnecessary precaution).	12:47
Kamion	SETPASSWD_PW="$2"	12:47
Kamion	export SETPASSWD_PW	12:47
Kamion	surely environment variables show up in the process table too?	12:47
Kamion	hm, perhaps only for processes you own	12:48
jdub	mdz: explicit reply-to ubuntu-devel?	12:49
mdz	jdub: ubuntu-users, please	12:49
mdz	Kamion: under Linux, yes, only for processes you own	12:50
mdz	a poor feature to rely on for security	12:50
Kamion	yeah, fortunately not in fact relied on	12:52
Kamion	kind of hard to deal with sensitive data securely in shell	12:53
azeem	doogie probably wrote some oo-code for that	12:54
Kamion	doogie and secure in the same sentence? :)	12:55
=== ddaa [~david@nemesis.xlii.org] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Client]
Kamion	hm, no registry of prebaseconfig item numbers	01:05
jdub	elmo: ping?	01:29
=== __randy__ [~randy@sclab-25-433.sclab.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdz	daniels: ping?	01:37
lamont	Kamion: I didn't realize that had become "my" statement...	01:41
jdub	lamont: build errors coming in :\|	01:43
jdub	oh, needs NEW flushing	01:43
jdub	nm	01:43
mdz	fabbione, thom: most recent firefox and xfree86 both have no problems for me on all architectures, thanks!	01:47
lamont	jdub???	01:47
jdub	lamont: did some new stuff for universe+hoary testing late last night	01:47
jdub	fucked up a bit	01:47
jdub	i am a bad person	01:48
mdz	elmo: ping?	01:51
lamont	gah. so when one changes Makefile.am, just need automake, or autoconf as well>>	01:53
azeem	automake	01:54
Kamion	lamont: you're who made it familiar to me :)	01:56
lamont	Kamion: ah, ok	02:02
lamont	also know as the Golden Rule: he with the gold makes the rules.	02:02
jdub	BLING!	02:03
lamont	bling-bling	02:03
Kamion	Is it frightening that I know the PCI vendor id for Broadcom by heart?	02:09
jdub	elmo: ping	02:22
lamont	Kamion: there was a time when I could ID many networking cards from the first 3 octets...	02:30
=== Kamion hands lamont pci.lst; memorize that, I'll test you tomorrow
lamont	ENOTIME	02:31
Kamion	oh, ok, you can have until Monday then	02:31
Kamion	would certainly make my life easier if I knew the whole lot by heart :)	02:32
lamont	Kamion: I've been known to really annoy people by assembling parisc instructions in my head..	02:33
elmo	mdz/jdub: ?	02:33
lamont	repeat after me: 8 7 4-1 6 5 19-9 0	02:33
lamont	I think that's the order, anyway...	02:33
elmo	s/annoy/freak out/	02:34
=== lamont has to run the kids to town
lamont	elmo: yeah	02:34
elmo	jdub: is this NEW stuff for universe or main?	02:34
lamont	the bad part is when you patch about 6 instructions in one fell swoop, in hex.	02:34
lamont	back in a couple of hours.	02:34
jdub	elmo: universe	02:34
jdub	elmo: can you kill polypaudio in new?	02:34
jdub	elmo: i'll fix that up	02:34
elmo	libao-polyp too?	02:35
jdub	yeah, ok	02:35
elmo	remember, universe stuff needs to be universe/$SECTION... I can override tho, so it's not critical	02:36
jdub	oh	02:36
jdub	libao-polyp (0.3-1) universe/sound; urgency=low ?	02:36
jdub	or in control?	02:37
elmo	yeah, but you should change debian/control - not the .changes	02:37
jdub	so Section: universe/sound -> for both binaries and source?	02:37
Kamion	lamont: you're insane, dude :)	02:37
=== jdub chuckles at elmo's reject mail
elmo	jdub: yeah	02:39
Kamion	jdub: share	02:39
jdub	"Rejected at request of bong sipping maintainer	02:39
jdub	"	02:39
Kamion	:-)	02:39
jdub	we should patch our vim to understand our wacky debian/control + changelog foo	02:39
jdub	;)	02:40
Kamion	oh yes	02:40
elmo	jdub: so am I rejecting them all?	02:41
jdub	just those ones	02:42
jdub	ready to upload?	02:42
elmo	yeah	02:42
jdub	rocking, thanks	02:42
azeem	did I ask whether you guys are keeping all your main debian/ dirs in a repository?	02:44
azeem	if not, do you? =)	02:44
jdub	we will	02:45
jdub	there's some interesting stuff on the way in that regard :)	02:45
azeem	sweet	02:45
elmo	(new) polypaudio_0.5-1ubuntu1.dsc optional sound	02:49
elmo	is that intentional?	02:49
jdub	not universe/sound? no, i did that one before you mentioned it	02:50
elmo	ok, no prob, I'll just override	02:50
elmo	I assume gamin/howl aren't going to main at this stage either?	02:50
jdub	no	02:51
jdub	thanks	02:51
jdub	i'll do that in future :)	02:51
mdz	elmo: upload access for herbert?	02:52
mdz	thom: ick, does libapache2-mod-php4 really only work with the prefork mpm?	02:52
elmo	well, meh, does anyone have any suggestions on an upload method that allows you to reliably tell when a file's completely uploaded?	02:52
Kamion	keep rsyncing until it doesn't do anything? :)	02:53
jdub	elmo: run a twisted ftp server, and fire off events when the files are fully uploaded :-)	02:54
Kamion	sheesh, new Windows XP Home is 163?	02:54
Kamion	not buying that just for testing purposes	02:55
Kamion	maybe one of my friends can lend me a copy or something	02:55
elmo	expense it ;-)	02:57
jdub	"required for the express purpose of bringing freedom to the entire world"	02:57
Kamion	tempting	02:58
jdub	"(also, doom3 looks very interesting)"	02:58
Kamion	actually, very tempting; then I can continue Not Owning A Copy Of Windows	02:59
Kamion	('cos it won't really be mine)	02:59
jdub	i didn't get that badge ;)	02:59
mdz	are windows XP licenses transferrable?	03:00
mdz	if so, you can have the one that came with my laptop	03:00
jdub	(they're definitely not with the hardware)	03:00
jdub	(dunno about otherwise)	03:00
jdub	oh	03:01
jdub	lwn	03:01
elmo	not legally, but they work	03:01
=== jdub goes to check out ubuntu article
jdub	boh	03:01
jdub	not front page	03:01
jdub	" Here is a little quiz. Which Linux distribution's mailing list recorded over 1,000 posts during the first week of its existence? Which project succeeded in attracting some of the best-known and most prominent open source developers to work on it? And why do their email addresses invariably end with @canonical.com?"	03:01
Kamion	so what's all that product activation about then?	03:01
jdub	haw haw	03:01
Kamion	I thought it was supposed to stop you transferring copies around?	03:01
elmo	kamion: it definitely doesn't, there's a key that's assigned "to the NHS" that must be used on thousands of computers	03:02
mdz	-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2266975 Sep 22 15:42 changelogs	03:03
mdz	that's the apt-listchanges output for a woody->warty upgrade on a non-trivial server	03:03
elmo	neat	03:03
mdz	that's a hell of a lot of changelogs	03:03
azeem	oh, so Dave Miller really is the Dave Miller. Should have figured.	03:04
elmo	uh?	03:04
elmo	no, our Dave Miller is not the kernel guy	03:04
azeem	then lwn is wrong	03:05
elmo	neat	03:05
jdub	heh	03:05
elmo	I should do that subscription via debian thing sometime	03:05
azeem	everbody's been named except elmo	03:05
=== jdub sends correction
Kamion	plenty of Debian people other than elmo not mentioned either	03:06
jdub	azeem: everyone? :)	03:06
jdub	Hi,	03:06
jdub	Dave Miller on our team is not Dave "dude" Miller, it is Dave "bugzilla	03:06
jdub	maintainer" Miller. :-)	03:06
jdub	Thanks,	03:06
jdub	- Jeff	03:06
jdub		03:06
jdub	;-)	03:06
azeem	heh	03:06
Kamion	namechecking me as "Debian QA" is a bit out of date too, but I won't argue :)	03:06
elmo	jdub: ITYM, "K, Thanks, Bye. Love, Jeff"	03:06
justdave	haha	03:07
jdub	the other dave miller says dude way too much	03:07
justdave	too many Dave Millers out there :)	03:07
justdave	as far as I know, 'davem' still works for Red Hat	03:08
elmo	yeah, he does	03:08
mdz	oh, lwn is out? I guess they go by UTC	03:12
jdub	http://unconcerned.org/index_unbutu.html	03:21
jdub	hahahahaha	03:21
jdub	(for non-gnome dudes, see goneme.org)	03:21
Kamion	:-)	03:29
Kamion	new d-i uploaded with slightly branded installation manual, still lots of work to do there	03:36
Kamion	shout if it fails to build for some reason; I don't think it will, but ...	03:36
=== Kamion is off to bed
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-87-199.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdz	Kamion: night	03:50
elmo	my god, the "submit a bug" page is half a mb big?	04:01
justdave	most of that is probably the component list.	04:07
daniels	mdz: pong	04:14
jdub	so	04:14
jdub	sbuild or pbuilder	04:14
jdub	?	04:14
mdz	elmo: dude, that's a feature	04:14
mdz	elmo: dan jacobson can never report a bug	04:14
mdz	jdub: none of the above	04:14
jdub	mdz: what do you recommend?	04:15
elmo	mdz: LOL	04:15
mdz	jdub: hypothetical UML-based tool I've only half-written	04:15
elmo	jdub: for what?	04:15
=== jdub spanks mdz
jdub	elmo: for building and checking things locally	04:15
mdz	pbuilder is scary crack and sbuild isn't particularly well suited for non-buildd use	04:15
elmo	sbuild is machosistic, unless the package is vastly improved	04:15
elmo	pbuilder's always struct me as particularly bad crack, but I don't have much experience to back that up	04:16
jdub	i basically want something so i can build shit against buildd-cletn unstable or warty whenever	04:16
azeem	elmo: of course it's vastly improved, I'm co-maintainer now	04:16
azeem	didn't do anything yet, though	04:16
elmo	heh	04:17
elmo	personally, I just use a chroot by hand, but I'm 0ld sk00l that way	04:17
azeem	how do you uninstall the Build-Deps afterwards?	04:19
elmo	cough, I cut'n'waste the "the following packages will be installed" output from apt-get to a file, and then apt-get --purge remove $(cat to_remove) afterwards	04:20
jdub	haha	04:20
jdub	that's not old skool	04:20
jdub	that's no skool	04:20
elmo	hey, I wrote the precursor to 'sbuild' in a hideously eccentric little shell called 'es' (-> 'esbuild') - I get to be a freak about how I build packages in a chroot	04:24
elmo	jdub: module.h:26:18: ltdl.h: No such file or directory	04:30
elmo	missing b-d on libltd3-dev or whatever it is, I guess	04:30
jdub	yeah, now they're out of new i can upload the fixed one :)	04:31
mdz	I just throw the chroot away afterward	04:32
=== jdub feels morbid, migrates to pillowful working area
elmo	hmm, no hoary/supported seed yet?	04:40
mdz	hoary should be sharing warty's seeds for now	04:41
elmo	yeah, I mean for proposals	04:42
elmo	as I assume it's too late to propose things for warty :)	04:42
jdub	8)	04:43
elmo	mdz/jdub: btw, do you have a timescale when you want hoary, if it's not ASAP?	04:43
mdz	elmo: to be honest, I don't see the point until we have hct	04:44
mdz	elmo: I don't think it's too late to propose stuff for supported if it's trivial	04:44
elmo	mm.. Mark indicated to me that hct was a way away, e.g. he said we'd be accepting community uploads before hct was ready, and I think that included hoary	04:45
mdz	I spoke to him about it today; there seem to be differing visions for hoary	04:45
elmo	giggle.. neat!	04:45
mdz	jdub: what's yours? (the one you've announced on ubuntu-users@ with ETAs and stuff)	04:45
mdz	there are 1009 source packages in warty main	04:46
mdz	we've modified 308 of them	04:46
mdz	clobbering those changes with packages from unstable would produce an, err, undesirable result	04:47
mdz	elmo: would it be possible to rig something up to let unmodified packages flow in from sid, while not clobbering modified ones?	04:48
elmo	well, I can easily enough not sync if there's an 'unbutu' marker in the version number in warty	04:48
daniels	pittping	04:48
mdz	then we could work through those by hand	04:48
daniels	ugh	04:48
elmo	daniels: dude, your keyboard handling skills suck tonight	04:48
mdz	pitti's asleep	04:48
elmo	it's like 5am in Germany :)	04:48
elmo	hmm, and 4 am here.. sleep might be a plan soon	04:48
daniels	elmo: wow, way to make your point, dude :P	04:49
=== daniels considers a base-config upload with Canonical Standard Time (UTC+10) as the default TZ.
elmo	mdz: sure, no prob.. anyway, given the differing visions, shall I mail you, jeff, mark?	04:49
elmo	(think jeff's crashed now)	04:49
elmo	daniels: ?	04:49
mdz	oh, I thought he was still here	04:49
daniels	elmo: the 5am thing	04:50
mdz	it's like noon in jdub-land, isn't it?	04:50
daniels	wtf??	04:50
daniels	To: apache@packages.debian.org	04:50
daniels	Subject: Andy Rourke (Smiths Bass Player) replaces Mani (Primal Scream)	04:50
daniels	and, sure enough, it's about andy rourke replacing mani	04:50
elmo	* jdub feels morbid, migrates to pillowful working area	04:51
jdub	mdz: mmm, thogh feeling uwjwell	04:51
daniels	mdz: 1251	04:51
mdz	jdub: ah	04:51
daniels	mdz: so, just to make sure I'm not entirely on crack	04:51
daniels	mdz: ppp_on-boot_dsl is going into pppoeconf with a different name, no?	04:51
daniels	ppp_on_boot.dsl, even	04:51
mdz	daniels: s/pppoeconf/ppp/	04:51
daniels	mdz: glad I asked	04:51
mdz	I thought I said that in the bug	04:52
elmo	mmm.. 4am.. night all	04:57
daniels	elmo: night dude	05:02
daniels	hmm, my flatmate has discovered the maximum possible score on tony hawk 2	05:02
schweeb	heh, not that hard to hit, iirc ;)	05:03
daniels	well, maximum score for a single trick	05:05
daniels	which is just over the 76 million mark	05:05
daniels	(spiderman + perfect balance + grinding the wire above the bullring + unplugging your keyboard + leaving it all night + a note that says 'leave please! for science's sake!' == very thps2 score)	05:06
daniels	s/very/& high/	05:06
=== lamont bets Kamion went to bed, yes?
mdz	yes	05:23
justdave	mdz: want to change the debzilla address right now? (bug 1328)	05:32
mdz	justdave: yes	05:32
justdave	debzilla@canonical.com?	05:32
mdz	justdave: debzilla@ubuntu.com	05:32
mdz	email prefs are already turned off	05:32
justdave	ok, done.	05:33
justdave	make sure the importer knows to log in with the new address and you're all set.	05:33
mdz	done here	05:33
mdz	I'll do a test run	05:33
mdz	_seems_ to work	05:34
mdz	but I'm not sure there was anything new that represented a good test case	05:34
mdz	looks good though	05:35
daniels	hmm	05:42
daniels	who here has a shinybook?	05:43
justdave	define shiny :)	05:58
daniels	shinybook -> powerbooks	06:09
=== lamont takes polishing compound to his vaio
=== daniels waits for his pay, so he can get an X40.
=== lamont sends of his initial writeup of 'so you want to bootstrap an architecture'
daniels	heh	06:11
justdave	I have a Pismo here...	06:12
justdave	it's not exactly shiny	06:12
justdave	:)	06:12
=== doko [doko@dsl-084-057-004-250.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbione	morning guys	06:42
=== lamont sleeps.
lamont	night fabbione	06:49
fabbione	ehe	06:51
fabbione	night lamont	06:51
daniels	night lamont, morning fabbione	07:05
daniels	fabbione: i think the ati powerpc bios thing is an upstream bug	07:05
daniels	that's the reason why I wanted more testing :)	07:05
fabbione	well i0t got some testing	07:07
fabbione	it crashed in several machines	07:07
fabbione	this is hoary stuff	07:09
fabbione	X is now uber deep freeze	07:09
fabbione	also.. apparently someone found a combinantion of nv + xv working	07:09
fabbione	but if we go for that solution we need to roll back the nv driver to the one in -6	07:09
fabbione	that will not work for people that needs X.org driver	07:09
fabbione	and the other way around	07:09
fabbione	get the poiny	07:09
fabbione	point even	07:09
daniels	yeah, there's no way we can do r4xx stuff for warty now	07:14
daniels	but if the bios detection is arse upstream on powerpc, i want to know that now :)	07:14
daniels	yeah	07:14
daniels	i think having the support xorg gives us is more importand than xv, though	07:15
daniels	remember, it's not terribly long until we'll have xorg	07:15
daniels	which reminds me -- early or late november for the sprint?	07:15
daniels	i think early is good, so we can get it done as quickly as possible	07:16
fabbione	daniels: fine for me	07:18
fabbione	did you mail Mark?	07:18
daniels	not yet, but i'll do that now	07:19
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbione	also because there is just a month or so left	07:22
fabbione	so it's better to get organized	07:22
fabbione	anyway Mark also said that we shouldn't spend too much time on X anymore since it is "stable"	07:24
fabbione	and focus on all the other bugs	07:24
pitti	Morning guys!	07:24
fabbione	hey pitti	07:24
daniels	fabbione: yeah, I'm trying to get off X	07:26
daniels	fabbione: working on Gimp now, for example	07:26
fabbione	<- raidtools2	07:27
pitti	fabbione: BTW, X on my iBook works again. Thanks for fixing the ati driver	07:34
fabbione	pitti: no problem and thanks for reporting :-)	07:35
pitti	npmccallum: here?	07:37
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fabbione	jdub, mdz: ping	11:08
fabbione	http://people.no-name-yet.com/~fabbione/raid_changelog	11:09
fabbione	http://people.no-name-yet.com/patches/raidtools2.272864.dpatch	11:09
fabbione	permission to upload raidtools2 to fix #1603	11:09
fabbione	diff and changelog at the above url	11:09
fabbione	tested with all possible raids	11:11
fabbione	there are no regressions here	11:11
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-26-32.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pitti	Hi seb128!	11:18
seb128	hello	11:18
pitti	seb128: the new gnome-vfs broke hotplug device handling :-)	11:18
seb128	pitti: og	11:18
seb128	oh	11:18
pitti	seb128: #1599, but I'm just fixing it	11:18
seb128	I've seen your mail to ettore, this guy works on gnome-vfs ?	11:19
pitti	seb128: I copied this from debian/copyright	11:19
pitti	seb128: I hope so :-)	11:19
rburton	ettore?	11:19
pitti	seb128: is there a mailing list or so for stuff like this?	11:19
seb128	rburton: To: Ettore Perazzoli <ettore@ximian.com>	11:20
pitti	seb128: no, not from copyright, from AUTHORS	11:20
seb128	rburton: is there several ettore ?	11:20
=== seb128 not sure
seb128	pitti: I'll ping alex or teuf about this	11:21
rburton	that is the late ettore	11:21
seb128	:(	11:21
seb128	as said 2 lines ago, was not sure	11:21
pitti	seb128: ugh, does that really mean he is dead?	11:21
seb128	pitti: yes	11:22
pitti	uh	11:22
rburton	died 12th december 2003 :(	11:22
pitti	seb128: any other idea where to forward patches then?	11:22
seb128	rburton: I didn't remember his last name, so I was not sure it was him	11:23
pitti	indeed, the mail bounced	11:23
seb128	pitti: as said before, I'll ping teuf or alex	11:24
pitti	ah, ok	11:24
pitti	thanks	11:24
seb128	but better if you can open a bug report about this against gnome-vfs	11:24
pitti	in their bugzilla?	11:24
=== pitti looks for the gnome-vfs bugzilla
seb128	yes	11:25
seb128	do you have an account on bugzilla.gnome.org ?	11:26
pitti	seb128: no, but I found the bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148186	11:26
pitti	seb128: I just created one	11:27
seb128	ok	11:27
seb128	pitti: I'll probably update dbus/hal to new versions today	11:27
seb128	FYI	11:28
pitti	seb128: UGH! hal 0.2.98?	11:29
seb128	yes	11:29
pitti	seb128: 0.2.87 had _severe_ regressions	11:29
pitti	I hope that they are fixed in 0.2.98	11:29
seb128	87 ?	11:29
seb128	could you check ?	11:29
pitti	no, 97 of course	11:30
seb128	we need 98 to get the lock device stuff working	11:30
seb128	nautilus-cd-burner 2.8.3 requires it	11:30
pitti	can't we backport jsut this change to 0.2.92?	11:30
seb128	2.8.3:	11:30
seb128	Lock drive while burning when using HAL	11:30
pitti	seb128: ah, does it finally lock the drive?	11:30
seb128	yes	11:30
pitti	does it unmount the drive before locking?	11:30
pitti	should pumount -l /dev/foo	11:31
seb128	do you have time to make the tests ?	11:32
seb128	I've around 90 bugs assigned in my list ...	11:32
pitti	seb128: if you don't mind, can I do the hal upgrade myself?	11:33
seb128	oh yes please	11:33
pitti	seb128: or do you want to change anything specific?	11:33
pitti	okay, then I will do that.	11:33
seb128	BTW sjoerd (the debian maintainer) has packages almost ready	11:33
rburton	hm, no multisync in ubuntu	11:33
pitti	I just have two major bugs left	11:33
seb128	pitti: apparently we need to update dbus and g-v-m too	11:34
pitti	hell, we are frozen...	11:34
seb128	I know	11:35
seb128	but do you have any other idea to get the device locking ?	11:35
pitti	yes, I have	11:35
pitti	I have a new pmount version ready which implements per-pid locking	11:36
pitti	this is even robust against crashes of nautilus-cd-burner, i. e. if a program crashes that locked a device	11:36
pitti	so n-c-b just had to pmount --lock the device at start, and then pmount --unlock it when it finished	11:37
pitti	I already proposed that in #1234	11:37
seb128	ok, feel free to do whatever you want on this plan :)	11:38
pitti	mdz seemed hesitant to accept a new pmount version	11:38
pitti	that's probably why he assigned the bug to you	11:38
seb128	I've a ton of bugs and no really time to work on this	11:38
seb128	I've just read about the lock stuff in nautilus-cd-burner yesterday but it requires the new hal	11:39
pitti	I tried to read the hal diff yesterday, but there are tons of new code	11:40
pitti	can you please write a short summary of the required changes to #1234?	11:40
pitti	then mdz should decide whether to go with new upstream or with new pmount	11:40
pitti	IMHO the new pmount has less changes and is more robust	11:41
pitti	OTOH it changes root code	11:41
pitti	In any case I can care about this, either hal/ncb/gvm or pmount	11:41
pitti	seb128: ^	11:41
seb128	ok, cool	11:42
=== sjoerd [~sjoerd@fire.ipv6.luon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128	hey sjoerd :)	11:43
sjoerd	morning	11:43
seb128	pitti was saying that's a lot of new code in hal and he's not comfortable with an update	11:43
pitti	seb128: well, I can prepare a new hal package and test it locally	11:44
pitti	seb128: but I got bad results with 0.2.97, that's why I would like to test this very thoroughly	11:44
sjoerd	as i told seb128, you need to patch the dbus python bindings a little for 0.2.98	11:45
sjoerd	pitti: bad results with respect to hotplugging stuff ?	11:45
pitti	sjoerd: yes, some of my devices were not recognized at all any more	11:45
sjoerd	that's why i did 0.2.97+cvs20040907 in debian	11:45
sjoerd	fixed the problems for everyone who reported them	11:46
sjoerd	i've got hal 0.2.98 packages for debian almost ready, but dbus needs to be fixed first	11:48
pitti	sjoerd,seb128: AFAIK the locking patch was pretty small; we might be better off to just backport it to 0.2.92?	11:49
fabbione	Mithrandir: mind to check raidtool2 changelog from sid? there is something related to amd64 that might be important	11:49
seb128	pitti: I've not looked on hal internals enough to have an opinion on this, sorry	11:50
fabbione	Mithrandir: between -12 and -13	11:50
pitti	seb128: np, was just meant as CC FYI	11:50
seb128	ok :)	11:50
pitti	I have to log out and back in to test fixed gnome-vfs. BRB	11:51
Mithrandir	fabbione: 266856?	11:51
fabbione	Mithrandir: yes	11:51
fabbione	Mithrandir: since i am keeping a lock on raidtools2 i am still in time to add it	11:51
Mithrandir	fabbione: I don't have my ubuntu system powered up atm, but the patch looks sane to me	11:52
fabbione	Mithrandir: ok	11:53
fabbione	i will talk with mdz or jdub when they are around	11:53
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pitti	damn, new gvfs still not working	11:54
sjoerd	pitti: if you only need the locking code for hal, then backporting it is the least intrusive way ofcourse	11:54
fabbione	Mithrandir: it's one liner.. i will just include it	11:55
Mithrandir	fabbione: coolie	11:55
seb128	pitti: if you can backport the lock part perhaps it's the best solution ?	11:55
pitti	seb128: the hal part should be relatively easy; but we also need a new gvm?	11:56
seb128	sjoerd: ? :)	11:57
sjoerd	if you go to 0.2.98 you need a new g-v-m yes	11:57
seb128	no	11:57
seb128	we want to backport the lock changes to 0.2.92	11:57
sjoerd	hmm for the locking too i guys, if you don't want it mounting stuff	11:57
sjoerd	there is support for thet in the development branch of gvm	11:58
=== sjoerd adds that to debians gvm todo
fabbione	Mithrandir: i placed the source on people/~fabbione	11:59
fabbione	Mithrandir: can you just build it?	11:59
Mithrandir	fabbione: my amd64 ubuntu system is at home, powered down atm.	12:00
Mithrandir	I need to get rid of a disk so I can sleep with it powered on.	12:00
thom	fabbione: i can built it	12:00
thom	but i have no way to test it	12:01
fabbione	thom: the test has been done.. i only want to be sure that is not a FTBFS	12:04
thom	then sure	12:05
fabbione	Mithrandir: ehehe don't worry :-)	12:05
fabbione	Mithrandir: we still have THOMBOT!	12:05
Mithrandir	fabbione :)	12:05
thom	builds for me	12:06
fabbione	danke	12:07
thom	bitte	12:07
fabbione	thom: can you ping your friend for #1218 ?	12:10
thom	have pinged, will ask colleagues to badger him	12:12
fabbione	thanks	12:12
fabbione	ok patch for raidtools2 is already accepted by the DD.	12:15
fabbione	that's good	12:15
fabbione	he was fast and happy	12:15
jdub	fabbione: pong	12:22
fabbione	jdub: read mail about raidtools2	12:23
fabbione	jdub: patch has been already accepted by the DD	12:23
fabbione	jdub: it also includes an AMD64 fix	12:24
fabbione	see the changelog	12:24
fabbione	it's a one line change	12:24
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=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-233-126.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivang	g'afternoon people	12:44
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburton	thom: so if i echo mem to /sys/power/state, it suspends and immediatly results on a tosh laptop. any ideas?	12:45
sivang	hi pitti	12:46
thom	s/results/restarts i assume?	12:46
rburton	yes :)	12:47
rburton	dmesg shows e100 suspending and immediately being told to wake up again	12:48
rburton	thom: are you lead man on ACPI issues? should i get dan to file a bug re: suspend	12:54
Mithrandir	rburton: unload the USB modules	12:54
rburton	trying	12:54
thom	but yeah, please file a bug, assign it to herbert, cc me	12:59
rburton	ok, removed ehci_hcd and uhci_hcd, leaving usbcore loaded, it resumed but when it resumed it had video corruption for a bit, and then shutdown	12:59
rburton	gracefully which was odd :)	12:59
Mithrandir	rburton: yes, it's the power button even which gets caught by /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh	12:59
Mithrandir	so it thinks you wants to turn it off	12:59
Mithrandir	I miss a command similar to the old apm -s	01:00
rburton	justdave: ping?	01:01
justdave	rburton: pong	01:02
rburton	justdave: i'm so in awe of the icalendar queries on the ubuntu bugzilla that i'm upgrading our own one. 2.18rc2 appears to have broken icalendar export -- so is cvs head safe?	01:02
pitti	sivang: Hi! Just had lunch	01:03
justdave	if it works on bugzilla.ubuntu.com, it'll work on cvs head	01:03
=== thom jumps up and down on bugzilla's head in a rage
thom	justdave: any joy with the "assign to me and mark assigned" button?	01:04
=== Mithrandir gives thom a beer
justdave	if it's broke in rc2 I'd consider that an rc bug for 2.18	01:04
rburton	justdave: i'll check it again to make sure i'm not mad	01:04
thom	rock. find in firefox is actually totally hozed	01:06
justdave	hmm, works for me on landfill	01:06
thom	bbiaf	01:06
azeem	bbiaf? be back in a fortnight?	01:06
rburton	justdave: right, confirmed. icalendar contains just BEGIN and END	01:06
thom	"few"	01:07
rburton	few.... months?	01:07
rburton	nanoseconds?	01:07
thom	hours, probably, given that i need to build a clean firefox on my crazy debian crack of doom partition	01:07
rburton	justdave: i'll be brave and go to the tip of 2.18	01:07
justdave	rburton: http://landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-2.18-branch/	01:07
justdave	that's tip of the branch, what'll be rc3 in a day or two	01:08
rburton	cool	01:08
rburton	grrr at bugzilla and permissions	01:08
rburton	justdave: what is the recommended user/group for bugzilla. atm its owned by me with group www-data but that is a pita as i have to su to run checkconfig	01:09
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justdave	thom: yeah, will hopefully have that in the next update (which is happening today sometime - been fighting with it for the last day and a half)	01:10
thom	justdave: rock, cool	01:10
justdave	rburton: root:www-data :)	01:10
justdave	if you're the only person on the box, you can set webservergroup to an empty string and it'll loosen up permissions a bit	01:11
justdave	but that makes the data directory world-writeable, so that's not advisable if there's people besides you with access to the box	01:12
rburton	yeah, everyone	01:12
rburton	its the file server as well as web	01:12
justdave	you could also add yourself to the www-data group	01:12
justdave	which would let checksetup.pl do the chgrp without complaining	01:12
rburton	yes, i was going to do that	01:12
rburton	hm, still doesnt' work with tip	01:13
rburton	how annoying	01:13
justdave	wonder if there's something it doesn't like in your data...	01:13
rburton	all the bugs have padlocks next to them	01:14
rburton	would the group permissions break it?	01:14
justdave	are you downloading the ics file or subscribing to it?	01:14
rburton	aaaha if i download in ephy it works	01:14
rburton	wget doesn't	01:14
rburton	subscribing also doesn't	01:15
rburton	which is why	01:15
rburton	darn	01:15
justdave	yeah, you need your login cookie since the bugs are secured	01:15
justdave	(or pass the user and pass with the url parameters)	01:15
rburton	&user=foo&pass=bar?	01:18
=== teuf [~teuf@cezanne-2-82-66-156-65.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburton	or in the url server bit?	01:19
justdave	&Bugzilla_login=username&Bugzilla_password=password	01:28
Mithrandir	evo doesn't do https ical urls, though	01:29
azeem	you need evolution-webcal for that, AFAIK	01:30
azeem	oh https	01:30
Mithrandir	there's not a webcals protocol, it seems	01:32
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburton	justdave: rock on, thanks	01:52
=== thom looks boredly at YA mozilla build
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=== lamont takes kids to school
rburton	is the daily install cd okay today?	02:28
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seb128	jdub, mdz: approval needed for #1285	02:41
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npmccallum	seb128: I don't remember when we talked, did you say that you were going to turn on esd by default (for ubuntu-sounds)?	02:48
seb128	hum	02:49
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128	we said it should be turned on yes	02:49
seb128	but I didn't say I was going to do it :)	02:49
npmccallum	ok	02:50
=== mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
npmccallum	Should we wait until #1481 is fix until we do that?	02:51
seb128	probably yes	02:52
seb128	ping jdub about that	02:52
npmccallum	I'll file a bug that depends on #1481	02:53
npmccallum	what package is the esd option in? g-c-c?	02:53
seb128	npmccallum: which option ?	03:01
=== T-Bone curses d-i for not asking for a proxy before trying to connect to the internet
pitti	T-Bone: Doesn't it ask if the connection cannot be established?	03:02
pitti	T-Bone: Sarge's d-i asks for a proxy IIRC	03:02
T-Bone	pitti: it stalls eternally, so i'm not waiting. Double ctrl-C gets to the package installation directly	03:03
T-Bone	pitti: correct, sarge asks	03:03
pitti	T-Bone: can you please file a bug?	03:03
pitti	T-Bone: describing some details?	03:03
T-Bone	pitti: sure, ASA i'll familiarize with ubuntu BTS ;)	03:03
npmccallum	seb128: to turn on esound and play sounds at events	03:04
pitti	T-Bone: it's not difficult, you just have to create an account	03:04
pitti	brb	03:04
T-Bone	already reported #1160	03:05
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128	npmccallum: esound is on by default, isn't it ?	03:06
T-Bone	pitti: already reported as #1160	03:06
T-Bone	btw, another question, probably a FAQ: what's the point of copying all packages to the local HD. Is warthy designed not to be installable under a certain amount of diskspace?	03:07
pitti	T-Bone: thanks	03:07
seb128	npmccallum: BTW the sound events option are in libgnome2-common's schema	03:10
T-Bone	btw, is Mark Shuttleworth around?	03:11
thom	T-Bone: he's on #ubuntu, nick of sabdfl	03:17
T-Bone	thom: thx	03:17
thom	np	03:18
rburton	thom: for the last six months i've wanted your t630, but not i've got a k700i so i'm happy again :)	03:20
rburton	much better than the t68i :)	03:20
thom	now you just need a decent laptop... ;-)	03:21
rburton	yep	03:21
rburton	then i can be MiniThom	03:21
rburton	and follow you around	03:21
=== thom chuckles
=== mako_ [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== rburton hears police sirens and hides
seb128	jdub: #1285 please :)	03:27
seb128	updating esound	03:27
seb128	arg	03:27
jdub	:-)	03:28
seb128	ryan's packages are a pain	03:28
=== T-Bone edits apt.conf by hand to add a proxy
seb128	he has almost forked them with all the changes in the diff.gz	03:29
jdub	seb128: libxml is part of gnome ;)	03:29
seb128	and he's the only one to know what's in there	03:29
azeem	T-Bone: running apt-setup by hand also lets you do this, IIRC	03:29
jdub	morning azeem	03:29
seb128	jdub: if that ok to update esound to current upstream and drop all debian changes ?	03:29
azeem	hey Jeff	03:29
seb128	hey azeem, thanks for the patch	03:29
jdub	seb128: hmm	03:29
azeem	cheers	03:29
T-Bone	azeem: oh; i'll try ;) Old debian habits are poising me ;)	03:30
jdub	seb128: can you check the src.rpm in fedora for any patches?	03:30
jdub	seb128: there might be some common ground for amd64 fixes and things like that	03:30
seb128	jdub: ok	03:30
azeem	T-Bone: it's just that I find it hard to remember the syntax needed for apt.conf	03:30
jdub	just in case we miss anything ;)	03:30
seb128	ok :)	03:30
azeem	the whole proxy thing sucks in Debian/Ubuntu currently, IMHO	03:30
azeem	worest of all is synaptic, which neither uses GNOME's nor APT's proxy setup but insists in having its own	03:31
T-Bone	azeem: lol, i'm getting used to it :)	03:31
=== T-Bone gets "duplicate source entries" errors, tries to figure out what he did wronge
T-Bone	-e	03:32
rburton	T-Bone: you uncommented the universe lines without commenting the lines at the top of the file	03:32
rburton	they both download main and restricted	03:32
T-Bone	rburton: bingo! thx	03:33
seb128	pitti: 09_pmount.patch + 10_fix_eject.patch break the trash with gnome-vfs 2.8.1...	03:33
pitti	seb128: gnome-vfs 2.8.1 breaks hotplug devices :-)	03:33
pitti	I found a partial fix no	03:34
pitti	now	03:34
seb128	have you opened a bug report ?	03:34
pitti	what breaks with the trash?	03:34
seb128	try to open the trash	03:34
seb128	always empty	03:34
seb128	always 0 items	03:34
pitti	seb128: #1599 for the hotplug stuff	03:34
seb128	it's ok if I rebuild gnome-vfs without these 2 patches	03:34
pitti	seb128: my trash is full	03:34
seb128	pitti: I was thinking to a gnome one so I can point to some upstream	03:34
pitti	I empty it	03:34
seb128	pitti: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1636	03:35
pitti	seb128: trash works for me???	03:35
seb128	I've exactly the same problem here	03:35
seb128	and no pb with gnome-vfs 2.8.0 or 2.8.1 without the 2 patches	03:36
seb128	pitti: the trashapplet works, the trash in nautilus is broken	03:36
pitti	seb128: works for me, too...	03:37
pitti	that's odd	03:37
seb128	perhaps your changes for the hotplug ?	03:37
rburton	fabbione: does X add a synaptics driver to XF86Config if it knows one is there, or if its on a laptop?	03:37
fabbione	the latter	03:37
pitti	seb128: now I have a slightly updated version	03:37
rburton	ok	03:37
fabbione	rburton: afaik there is no way to detect that there is a synaptics whatever it is	03:38
pitti	seb128: now it shows me mounted USB devices on desktop (not yet in the computer place)	03:38
seb128	pitti: try with the current gnome-vfs package	03:38
pitti	seb128: as soon as I fixed this, I will downgrade to the older version and try to reproduce	03:38
seb128	and killall nautilus before trying :)	03:38
seb128	ok thanks	03:38
pitti	seb128: I don't think that the eject fix is the cause	03:51
seb128	me neither	03:51
pitti	seb128: but 09_pmount does not do anything trash related neither...	03:52
seb128	I know ...	03:52
seb128	but I've build 10 version of the package	03:52
seb128	removing these 2 fixes the issue	03:52
pitti	seb128: but this whole issue is odd anyway. Nothing in the 880 code relevant lines in the 2.8.1 patch seems to break hotplug devices	03:52
pitti	seb128: I had to fix that in a totally different spot	03:52
seb128	how ?	03:53
pitti	gnome-vfs2-2.8.1/libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-volume-monitor-daemon.c	03:53
seb128	ok	03:54
pitti	seb128: create_vol_from_mount decides whether the volume appears on desktop	03:54
pitti	but it sets is_user_visible to 0 for all but some special drive types	03:55
pitti	seb128: oddly enough this code hasn't changed from 2.8.0, but I guess it is indirectly called differently	03:55
seb128	what has changed in create_vol_from_mount behaviour between 2.8.0 and 2.8.1 ?	03:56
pitti	seb128: nothing, that's the funny part	03:56
seb128	weird	03:56
seb128	same for the trash	03:56
pitti	seb128: as I said, I read the whole diff from 2.8.0 to 2.8.1	03:56
seb128	that's broken but nothing changed	03:56
pitti	seb128: voodoo	03:56
seb128	one of the patches is perhaps doing bad stuff	03:57
pitti	seb128: can we blame Bill Gates for that?	03:57
=== truk-zzz blames
seb128	pitti: why not :)	03:57
pitti	seb128: do you know a possibility to test a new gnome-vfs without logging out/in?	03:58
pitti	seb128: I already tried to run the daemon manually, but that does not work	03:58
seb128	perhaps teuf knows ?	03:58
seb128	teuf: here ? :)	03:58
pitti	seb128: I'm back in a minute	03:59
teuf	seb128: depends on what exactly pitti is trying to achieve	03:59
seb128	he's working with volumes/devices	04:00
seb128	what's showed on the desktop with nautilus	04:00
teuf	yeah, but I don't get why h e needs to log out/log in	04:00
teuf	gnome-session-remove nautilus should be enough to kill the vfs-daemon I think	04:00
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128	probably to restart the volume-monitor ?	04:00
teuf	ok	04:00
teuf	so	04:00
teuf	pitti: why do you need to log out/log in to test vfs changes ?	04:00
pitti	teuf: I tried to kill the daemon and to start it with the same options, doesn't work	04:01
pitti	seb128: my trash works like charm here :-)	04:02
teuf	pitti: killall gnome-vfs-daemon && killall nautilus isn't enough ?	04:02
pitti	seb128: I will try it now with the old version in Warty	04:02
seb128	ok, thanks	04:02
pitti	teuf: oh, will that restart everything?	04:02
teuf	pitti: depends what you call "everything" ;)	04:02
teuf	it's probably more than enough to test vfs changes	04:02
pitti	teuf: cool, thanks!	04:03
pitti	you just improved my efficiency trememdously :-)	04:03
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pitti	seb128: grumpf, the volume icons only appear _either_ on the desktop _or_ in the Computer place	04:14
pitti	seb128: with the current gconf default, they appear only at the desktop	04:14
pitti	seb128: do you think they should appear in both places?	04:15
sivang	is it possible to make them appear on both places?	04:20
seb128	pitti: the icon should always been in the computer place yes	04:22
pitti	seb128: this must be somewhere in nautilus	04:22
seb128	what ?	04:22
pitti	seb128: I'm trying to find it	04:22
seb128	hum	04:23
seb128	that's the upstream behaviour, keep it for the moment perhaps and check with jdub	04:24
jdub	um	04:24
jdub	hrm?	04:24
jdub	i thought they appeared in both	04:24
pitti	jdub: the current behaviour is quite odd	04:28
pitti	jdub: I just fixed gnome-vfs to actually report USB sticks and the like as "user visible" to fix #1599	04:29
pitti	jdub,seb128: now if I plug in my stick, it appears at the desktop, not in the Computer place	04:29
pitti	jdub,seb128: however, if I switch off the "icon on desktop" gconf setting, it appears only in the Computer place	04:29
jdub	weird	04:29
seb128	same	04:30
pitti	jdub,seb128: but in this case the sda1 icon appears as "not mounted" (!!!)	04:30
pitti	jdub,seb128: I can click on sda1 and it complains that sda1 is already mounted	04:30
pitti	jdub,seb128: if the Icon is on desktop, it behaves sanely	04:30
seb128	if it detects it as not mounted that's normal	04:30
jdub	heh	04:30
=== pitti cries out loudly
pitti	seb128: why is that normal? a week ago I could click on sda1 in the computer window and the content opened	04:31
pitti	seb128: and I could unmount it there	04:31
=== pitti wishes to revert to gvfs 2.8.0
seb128	"if it detects it as not mounted"	04:31
pitti	seb128: ah, but it is mounted	04:31
seb128	I know	04:32
seb128	the detection is wrong	04:32
seb128	but the behaviour is right according to the detection	04:32
seb128	pitti: BTW 2.8.1 fixes some important issues, reverting is not good	04:32
pitti	I'm already working 6.5 hours on this stuff; it's just plain weird	04:32
pitti	seb128: BTW, I could reproduce the trash bug	04:33
thom	that's three days of firefox. rapture	04:33
=== mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thom	hey oh fearless laptop leader	04:34
pitti	seb128: funnily enough it seems to work again with my updated gvfs	04:34
=== jdthood [~jdthood@aglu.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128	pitti: nice :)	04:48
pitti	seb128: however, inexplicable	04:48
pitti	seb128: my patches were agains gvfs, but the trash thingy should be nautilus, don't?	04:49
seb128	the graphical part	04:49
seb128	the monitor is gnomevfs stuff	04:49
seb128	and as said before is works fine with 2.8.0 package and not 2.8.1 without changing nautilus	04:50
seb128	so I really think the problem is in gnomevfs	04:50
=== mxpxpod [~bryan@mxpxpod.user] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mxpxpod	do you guys need a *mm library maintainer?	04:59
seb128	fabbione: here ?	05:01
seb128	mxpxpod: would be nice :)	05:01
sladen	can somebody with cpu_scaling working on their PowerBook send me the output of grep '^model name' $CPUINFO \| head -1 \| sed -e 's/^.*: //; and tell me which module(s) they had to load	05:01
mxpxpod	seb128: I'd be willing to learn exactly how to do it and help maintain	05:02
seb128	cool	05:02
sladen	s.$CPUINFO./proc/cpuinfo.	05:02
mxpxpod	seb128: just let me know what to read and if I need to register somewhere or something... but that way we can keep on top of *mm stuff	05:03
seb128	jdub: here ?	05:03
seb128	mxpxpod: what to read for what ? Doing a debian package ?	05:03
jdub	seb128: mmm?	05:03
seb128	jdub: read 2 lines ago	05:04
jdub	mxpxpod: you've looked at the *mm sources in universe?	05:04
jdub	mxpxpod: are they not building, or...?	05:04
seb128	jdub: mxpxpod would like to help to maintain the *mm	05:04
jdub	seb128: yep, worked it out now ;)	05:05
mxpxpod	mxpxpod: no, not really, but I can do that	05:05
mxpxpod	crap, that was to jdub	05:05
mxpxpod	oh, nice... gtkmm-2.4.5 hasn't been compiled for ppc... but the source is in universe	05:07
jdub	ok	05:07
jdub	so	05:07
jdub	grab the sources	05:07
mxpxpod	jdub: got em	05:07
jdub	see if they build on your box	05:07
jdub	fixing that stuff will go straight into universe for everyone else :)	05:08
mxpxpod	jdub: is there a specified way that is more acceptible to build with? or is apt-get source -b libgtkmm-2.4-1	05:08
jdub	if you want updated packages	05:08
jdub	mxpxpod: apt-get source <package>	05:08
jdub	cd <directory>	05:08
jdub	dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -rfakeroot	05:08
jdub	probably worth hanging out here to ask about the ins and outs of how this all works	05:08
mxpxpod	jdub: you don't care that it's not signed?	05:09
jdub	but i strongly recommend reading the developer docs on debian.org	05:09
mxpxpod	jdub: ok	05:09
seb128	http://www.debian.org/devel	05:09
jdub	if you're building it for yourself, you don't need it signed	05:09
jdub	you're testing ;)	05:09
mxpxpod	jdub: good point :)	05:09
jdub	but, if you've fixed stuff up	05:09
sivang	jdub : you a know a good way to have nautilus-cd-burner not finalize a cd?	05:09
jdub	do your build like this:	05:09
jdub	dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot -uc -us	05:10
jdub	that'll do a source build only	05:10
sivang	jdub : this seems to be ellusive on the gui	05:10
jdub	which can be checked, signed and uploaded to universe	05:10
mxpxpod	jdub: ah, ok	05:10
jdub	sivang: i don't think it can	05:10
mxpxpod	jdub: oh, I know where the 2.4.5 stuff came from... it came from debian's source stuff	05:10
seb128	yes	05:11
sivang	jdub : darn	05:11
jdub	mxpxpod: universe is debian main, frozen a few months back	05:11
seb128	mxpxpod: most of the packaged are from the debian archive	05:11
jdub	mxpxpod: if you want newer packages, we can sync things from sid	05:11
mxpxpod	jdub: ah, ok	05:11
mxpxpod	jdub: well, I have a deb-src line that grab's sid's current sources	05:11
jdub	mxpxpod: if they build on warty (or you have patches), that is ;)	05:12
seb128	I hate changes in the diff.gz	05:12
sivang	jdub : there a list of packages that needs security sync from sid, would you like me to mail you?	05:12
jdub	mxpxpod: hrm, unless you definitely know you want to use those, try working with the existing versions in universe as much as possible	05:12
jdub	sivang: no, that's mdz's gig :)	05:12
sivang	jdub : k ;-)	05:12
mxpxpod	jdub: well, universe has 2.4.2, and it would be nice to have 2.4.5 since it's got a couple of fixes in	05:13
lamont	mdz/jdub about?	05:13
jdub	lamont: i am	05:13
jdub	mxpxpod: ok	05:13
lamont	I, um, have a proposed fix for #1577	05:13
lamont	..	05:13
jdub	mxpxpod: for this release, we're not worrying too much about freezeness in universe :)	05:13
jdub	mxpxpod: in later releases, it'll freeze just like everything else	05:13
mxpxpod	jdub: ok, cool	05:13
mxpxpod	jdub: gotcha	05:13
lamont	(A) shipping an RC is really, really, ugly. (B) 9.2.4 just released, (C) upstream is good about not releasing until they've fixed things. (D) it's been verified to fix #1577.	05:14
lamont	jdub: can we sync it from debian? please, please, please, please	05:14
=== lamont grovels
mxpxpod	jdub: the reason I'm worried about *mm stuff is that I think I'm going to make a release of coaster in the next few weeks, and I want people to be able to use it	05:14
jdub	mxpxpod: rad	05:14
mxpxpod	jdub: :)	05:14
mxpxpod	jdub: so, I'll need to hack up a gnome-vfsmm2.8 package for us too	05:15
jdub	lamont: i'm going to defer to mdz on this one, sorry :-)	05:15
jdub	lamont: it has my approval if he's happy with it	05:15
jdub	mxpxpod: there's no debian package?	05:15
mxpxpod	jdub: not for 2.8... just 2.6	05:15
mxpxpod	jdub: I should email bradley	05:15
lamont	jdub: well, that's one down, anyway...	05:15
jdub	seb can teach you sexy ways of handling that :)	05:15
lamont	hrm... mdz is almost certainly still asleep	05:16
mxpxpod	jdub: teach me?	05:16
jdub	mxpxpod: packaging-fu	05:18
mxpxpod	lol	05:18
mxpxpod	ok	05:18
sladen	could people have a quick test of: http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/cpufreq-detect.sh if possible and tell me when it doesn't work	05:18
seb128	oh, just remember	05:18
mxpxpod	brb	05:19
seb128	jdub: what do you think about turning on the tab-groups extension in epiphany-extensions ?	05:19
jdub	$ ./cpufreq-detect.sh	05:20
jdub	speedstep-smi.o	05:20
jdub	seb128: dunno	05:20
=== T-Bone wonders why firefox doesn't account his "stop button hit" (still proxy problem), and why the menus are empty
jdub	$ sudo modprobe speedstep-smi	05:20
jdub	Password:	05:20
jdub	FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_smi (/lib/modules/2.6.8.1-2-686/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-smi.ko): No such device	05:20
jdub		05:20
jdub	;-)	05:20
jdub	$ lsmod \| grep cpu	05:20
jdub	cpufreq_userspace 5240 2	05:20
jdub	cpufreq_powersave 1728 0	05:20
jdub		05:20
jdub	$ lsmod \| grep speed	05:21
jdub	speedstep_lib 4100 0	05:21
jdub		05:21
jdub	sladen: helpful?	05:21
=== sladen ponders
sladen	jdub: do you already have another module setup and working?	05:22
jdub	yes	05:23
jdub	which appears to be speedstep_lib	05:23
sladen	jdub: groovy, what's grep '^model name' /proc/cpuinfo ?	05:23
jdub	model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.40GHz	05:23
sladen	jdub: okay, could you confirm that modprobe -r speedstep_lib ; modprobe speedstep is all that you need to do?	05:25
sladen	er. speedstep_lib	05:25
thom	um, it claims speedstep_smi for me, too. but speedstep_centrino is the one that works	05:26
jdub	it's working without that loaded	05:26
sladen	thom: what's your grep '^model name' /proc/cpuinfo	05:27
thom	virelais:~# sh cpufreq-detect.sh	05:27
thom	speedstep-smi.o	05:27
thom	virelais:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo \|grep "model name"	05:27
thom	model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1200MHz	05:27
thom	virelais:~# modprobe speedstep_smi	05:27
jdub	but i still have cpufreq_ ones in there	05:27
thom	FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_smi (/lib/modules/2.6.8.1-2-686/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-smi.ko): No such device	05:27
mxpxpod	jdub: if I compile these packages for ubuntu, do you want me to make a changelog entry?	05:28
sladen	thom: is that a P4-M ?	05:28
thom	yeah	05:29
jdub	mxpxpod: you have to, to change the version nubmer	05:29
jdub	mxpxpod: basically	05:29
jdub	mxpxpod: run 'dch'	05:29
jdub	sorry	05:29
jdub	'dch -i'	05:29
jdub	then change the version number like this:	05:29
mxpxpod	jdub: before I compile?	05:29
jdub	2.6.4-2 becomes 2.6.4-2ubuntu1	05:29
jdub	mxpxpod: yes	05:29
mxpxpod	jdub: ok	05:29
mxpxpod	jdub: oh, I had a question about dch yesterday... which environment variables do I need to set in my .bashrc?	05:31
jdub	hrm, probably not worth doing that	05:32
jdub	i have ~/bin/uch	05:32
jdub	which looks like:	05:32
jdub	#!/bin/sh	05:32
jdub	export DEBEMAIL=jeff.waugh@canonical.com	05:32
jdub	exec dch -i -D warty $@	05:32
jdub		05:32
mxpxpod	how does it get your name?	05:32
daniels	from the passwd file	05:32
mxpxpod	oh, rightg	05:33
mxpxpod	-g	05:33
=== Sledge__ [~steve@80.46.37.1] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont	#!/bin/sh	05:34
lamont	export LANG=C	05:34
lamont	export DEBEMAIL="lamont@mmjgroup.com"	05:34
lamont	export DEBFULLNAME="LaMont Jones"	05:34
lamont	VERS=""	05:34
lamont	if (( $# >= 1 )) && [ "$1" = "-i" ] && [ -f debian/changelog ] ;then	05:34
lamont	V=$(sed -n '1,1s/^.($.$).*$/\1/p' debian/changelog)	05:34
mxpxpod	jdub: do I need the -D warty?	05:34
lamont	if [ "$V" = "${V%ubuntu*}" ] ; then	05:34
lamont	shift	05:34
lamont	VERS="--newversion ${V}ubuntu1"	05:34
jdub	mxpxpod: yes	05:35
lamont	fi	05:35
jdub	lamont: :-)	05:35
lamont	fi	05:35
lamont	dch -D warty $VERS "$@"	05:35
jdub	nice	05:35
lamont	it does require that -i be the _FIRST_ option, though...	05:35
lamont	the real trick is remembering to _not_ say that for debian uploads... :-)	05:36
mxpxpod	lamont: why not just put -I in your exec?	05:36
lamont	mxpxpod: I sometimes don't want -i	05:37
mxpxpod	whoops, -i	05:37
lamont	that code basically says 'if they said -i, and it's not already an ubuntu* version, then change the -i to --newversion ..ubuntu1, otherwise just pass the -i through'	05:38
mxpxpod	ah, ok	05:38
mxpxpod	now, when the editor comes up after I type ~/bin/uch -i, I just enter regular changelog entries?	05:39
mxpxpod	jdub: ^	05:43
daniels	mxpxpod: yah	05:43
mxpxpod	daniels: ok, it creates a changelog.dch... it doesn't merge into the changelog	05:44
T-Bone	lamont: ping	05:44
daniels	mxpxpod: it should merge into the changelog after you write and exit	05:44
mxpxpod	daniels: hrmm... doesn't seem to do it with gvim	05:45
lamont	yo	05:45
lamont	T-Bone: let me guess... issues building the chroot?	05:47
jdub	seb128: nautilus scripts don't seem to work	05:47
T-Bone	lamont: bingo	05:47
T-Bone	lamont: don't have warty.buildd	05:47
lamont	grab that from a warty box.	05:47
seb128	jdub: dpkg -l shared-mime-info ?	05:47
lamont	and then you need to edit it. :-(	05:47
T-Bone	lamont: rephrasing:	05:47
T-Bone	lamont: don't have warty.buildd on a warty box	05:47
thom	lamont: we could just get the ones off the buildds	05:48
lamont	apt-get update; apt-get install debootstrap	05:48
T-Bone	lamont: already did that	05:48
=== lamont uploaded debootstrap ubuntu17 yesterday with the file
T-Bone	rephrasing	05:48
mxpxpod	grr... dch doesn't like gvim at all	05:48
lamont	...	05:48
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
T-Bone	lamont: don't have warty.buildd on a warty box after installing debootstrap	05:48
lamont	which version?	05:48
T-Bone	0.2.39ubuntu17 (freshly installed)	05:49
=== lamont checks, screams
lamont	just a minute	05:50
thom	lamont: did that pbbuttonsd upload fix powerprefs/gtkpbbuttons?	05:50
lamont	thom: will check	05:50
thom	danke	05:51
lamont	t-bone: people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/warty.buildd ubuntu18 coming soon. sigh.	05:52
T-Bone	lol thx	05:52
seb128	jdub: "Hardware request : eagle-usb driver" <- grrrrrrrrrrr, I've mailed the devel list about this 1 one week ago and nobody care about replying :(	05:52
seb128	this package is not big and damn useful for some people	05:52
jdub	seb128: you can upload it to universe, no problem	05:53
seb128	jdub: universe is not good	05:53
lamont	T-Bone: or you could apt-get source debootstrap, and extract it from there. GAH!	05:54
seb128	jdub: we want it on the CD, or people can't have a net access and download the package	05:54
T-Bone	lamont: to recap, i'm debootstraping on a sarge ia64 box, using warty.buildd. Are the special options you gave me still valid?	05:54
jdub	seb128: where is it at the moment? only in debian?	05:55
seb128	yes	05:55
seb128	we have eagle-adsl in universe	05:55
mxpxpod	does anyone here use dch with gvim?	05:55
seb128	is has been renamed in eagle-usb in debian	05:55
seb128	which works better	05:55
lamont	T-Bone: the file I just gave you will still need --exclude=lsb-base	05:55
jdub	seb128: happy for you to sync the debian package to replace it	05:55
seb128	jdub: please read my mail on ubuntu-devel about this, I've included the details	05:55
T-Bone	lamont: and taht's all? or kernel-headers are needed too?	05:56
jdub	seb128: then shift it into supportedseed/shipseed	05:56
lamont	but the --include isn't needed (nor should it be..)	05:56
jdub	seb128: with confirmation with matt	05:56
seb128	jdub: ok, thanks !	05:56
seb128	jdub: and about your version of shared-mime-info ?	05:56
lamont	linux-kernel-headers _is_ included, it's just that libc6-dev Depends it, and the script had ordering issues...	05:56
T-Bone	lamont: ok, hold on	05:56
jdub	seb128: my which? :)	05:56
seb128	<jdub> seb128: nautilus scripts don't seem to work	05:57
seb128	<seb128> jdub: dpkg -l shared-mime-info ?	05:57
seb128	don't ignore the question dude :p	05:57
=== seb128 thinks you still have 0.14 :)
jdub	oh	05:58
jdub	0.14-1.1	05:58
seb128	the fix is the libxml2/s-m-i upload you've approved 2 hours ago :p	05:59
lamont	T-Bone: and then there's the issue that snapshot.debian.net is b0rked	05:59
lamont	date specs don't completely work...	05:59
jdub	seb128: boh ;)	06:00
lamont	T-Bone: so little things like linux-kernel-headers and apt aren't in that repository...	06:00
T-Bone	lamont: do you have other niceties to tell me ? ;)	06:01
lamont	give me a few mintuew	06:01
T-Bone	lol	06:01
T-Bone	lamont: i shall fire some very heavy stuff at you ;^)	06:02
lamont	T-Bone: starting with a sarge chroot won't work (too new), and starting with woody is just plain painful.	06:04
T-Bone	lamont: debootstrap currently fetching files without errors for now	06:04
lamont	and you can't do what I did, which was start with a snapshot that we made of sid on freeze day. (since we didn't snap ia64...)	06:05
T-Bone	lamont: would sbuild help me rebuilding everything, or should i do that "by hand"?	06:05
lamont	right. There's some extra fun to deal with down the road...	06:05
lamont	sbuild is your friend.	06:05
T-Bone	(i'm up to libc6, currently)	06:05
lamont	libc6.1, I hope...	06:05
mxpxpod	jdub: if I'm just compiling debian source packages for ubuntu, do I need to add a changelog entry?	06:06
T-Bone	lamont: correct ;)	06:06
jdub	mxpxpod: if you make a change, yes	06:06
mxpxpod	jdub: what if no change is made	06:07
jdub	mxpxpod: if not, lamont can sync them directly into universe	06:07
mxpxpod	jdub: oh, ok	06:07
mxpxpod	lamont: can you sync libsigc++2.0, glibmm2.4, and glibmm2.4?	06:07
lamont	mdpxpod: wanna send me an email with the whys and such, and I'll forward it along.	06:08
mxpxpod	lamont: to who?	06:08
lamont	it goes to jdub, mdz, and elmo	06:08
mxpxpod	ah, ok	06:08
lamont	jdub/mdz approve, elmo syncs	06:08
mxpxpod	lamont: email addy?	06:10
T-Bone	lamont: up to 'tar' ;)	06:10
lamont	lamont@canonical.com	06:10
seb128	fabbione: here ?	06:11
lamont	T-Bone: did you happen to notice if it fetched either linux-kernel-headers or apt??? :-(	06:11
=== T-Bone looks
lamont	it didn't for me...	06:11
T-Bone	lamont: apparently not. and it fucked up on libc6	06:12
lamont	so once the debootstrap fails, then you:	06:12
seb128	jdub: hum, the current package of esound uses --disable-alsa ... do you see a reason to keep that ?	06:12
lamont	wget http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/03/debian/pool/main/l/linux-kernel-headers/linux-kernel-headers_2.5.999-test7-bk-16_ia64.deb	06:12
lamont	stuff that in the chroot, dpkg -i it, redo debootstrap (yeah, that's bad...)	06:12
lamont	then wget http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/10/debian/pool/main/a/apt/apt_0.5.25_ia64.deb	06:12
T-Bone	gack	06:12
lamont	and shove that in the chroot	06:12
lamont	and install it	06:13
lamont	and apt-get update	06:13
lamont	er, after creating a good sources.list, that is...	06:13
lamont	deb http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/28/debian unstable main	06:13
lamont	deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main restricted universe	06:13
lamont	and then you'll be ahead of me.	06:13
lamont	eta 12 minutes on the apt-get update	06:14
lamont	T-Bone: yes, well... snapshot.debian.net's date-specs are known to be br0ken.	06:14
T-Bone	lamont: rerunning debootstrap on the previously debootstrap'd chroot, right?	06:14
lamont	so we'll probably wind up polluting the hell out of this chroot to get main built, etc..	06:15
lamont	yes.	06:15
T-Bone	k	06:15
T-Bone	in progress	06:15
lamont	which is just so sick and wrong, but works.	06:15
=== lamont looks to make sure Kamion isn't watching
thom	i should get this going on sparc, too	06:15
lamont	So really, step 1 is Debug the chroot into existance	06:16
lamont	thom: I was planning to wait until late october to do this.	06:16
lamont	t-bone is in a hurry though.	06:16
thom	give me something to do between firefox builds	06:16
T-Bone	lamont: getting tons of unmet deps	06:16
lamont	thom: bounced you my email to t-bone	06:16
lamont	yeah - those are normal.	06:17
lamont	well, less of them is more normal...	06:17
T-Bone	shit, libc6dev depends on linux-kernel-headers hower...	06:17
T-Bone	s/hower/however/	06:17
T-Bone	looks like it didn't work	06:18
thom	lamont: grazil	06:18
lamont	the next step after the apt-get update is to look at warty.buildd, and figure out what other packages are missing from 2004/06/28 on snapshot.d.n	06:18
lamont	T-Bone: after the first debootstrap fails with libc6.1-dev depends l-k-h, then you chroot in to the chroot, dpkg -i linux-ker....deb, drop back out and re-run debootstrap	06:18
T-Bone	lamont: exactly what i did	06:19
T-Bone	didn't work	06:19
lamont	how did it die?	06:19
T-Bone	package l-k-h not installed	06:19
lamont	the lkh install, how did that die?	06:19
T-Bone	didn't die	06:19
lamont	oh, after dpkg -i, do dpkg --configure -a	06:19
lamont	er, s/-a/--pending/	06:20
T-Bone	bummer ;)	06:20
lamont	the chroot is pretty resilliant...	06:20
T-Bone	gandalf:/# dpkg --configure --pending	06:20
T-Bone	dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libc6.1-dev:	06:20
T-Bone	libc6.1-dev depends on linux-kernel-headers; however:	06:20
T-Bone	Package linux-kernel-headers is not installed.	06:20
lamont	dpkg -l linux-kernel-headers (in the chroot)	06:20
T-Bone	un linux-kernel-h <none> (no description available)	06:21
T-Bone	wtf?	06:21
lamont	could it be that you installed it outside the chroot?	06:21
T-Bone	nop i didn't	06:21
=== T-Bone redoes dpkg -i
mxpxpod	lamont: in my email, do you want changelog entries to show what's changed?	06:21
T-Bone	ii linux-kernel-h 2.5.999-test7- Linux Kernel Headers for development	06:21
T-Bone	lamont: the hell if i understand :P	06:21
=== lamont is using debootstrap 0.2.39
lamont	mxpxpod: yes	06:22
mxpxpod	lamont: okey dokey	06:22
lamont	well, at least an explanation of what's changed, and why we care enough to sync.	06:22
T-Bone	un linux-kernel-h <none> (no description available)	06:23
mxpxpod	lamont: I'll just put in changelogs :)	06:23
T-Bone	lamont: debootstrap is messing up with my l-k-h manual setup	06:23
lamont	which version debootstrap?	06:23
T-Bone	still the same	06:23
T-Bone	oops	06:23
T-Bone	0.2.45	06:24
lamont	yeah - it must have gotten smarter..	06:24
T-Bone	shit	06:24
T-Bone	we don't want it to be smarter, do we?	06:24
lamont	no. we want it stoooopid	06:24
T-Bone	damn st0000pid :)	06:24
T-Bone	so, what's next?	06:24
lamont	hit snapshot.d.n, debootstrap, and grab 0.2.39	06:24
T-Bone	lamont: and i install it on my sarge box, right?	06:25
lamont	yes	06:25
mxpxpod	lamont: sent	06:27
T-Bone	lamont: still the same	06:27
T-Bone	doesn't work	06:27
lamont	thom: I'm going to write a 'so you want to bootstrap an architecture' paper when I'm done...	06:28
seb128	jdub: nevermind about esound/alsa, was my error	06:28
lamont	t-bone: gimme a minute	06:28
T-Bone	lamont: do i still want the --exclude flag?	06:28
T-Bone	lamont: when i'm done, i'll bootstrap hppa ;)	06:29
=== T-Bone ducks
lamont	T-Bone: I would love for you to debootstrap hppa.	06:30
=== lamont builds a tarball for t-bone
T-Bone	lamont: heh, if i don't have a receipe, i won't be able to do hppa ;)	06:30
lamont	t-bone: (1) do what it takes to make a chroot with 06/28 bits.	06:30
lamont	did 0.2.39 not install, or did it produce the same issues?	06:31
T-Bone	produced the same issues	06:31
T-Bone	lamont: this is the kind of receipe i enjoy a lot. It leaves everything up to the cook chief ;)	06:32
thom	my sparc has the loudest disks in the history of the world ever :/	06:32
T-Bone	thom: the cool thing with ia64 or big hppa boxes, is that you _can't_ here the HDs ;)	06:33
lamont	people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/chroot-warty_ia64.tar.bz2 will be complete in about 3 mintues	06:33
T-Bone	s/here/hear/	06:33
thom	T-Bone: heh	06:33
lamont	T-Bone: WHAT??? :-)	06:33
T-Bone	lamont: ok, ping me again when it's ready, so that I'll suck it asap	06:33
T-Bone	lamont: LOL ;)	06:33
lamont	T-Bone: so step 1 for you becomes 1a) untar the beast and then...	06:34
T-Bone	lamont: and then i'll need your help to setup sbuild ;)	06:34
lamont	right	06:34
lamont	was just looking at that...	06:34
T-Bone	hehe	06:34
elmo	lamont: it doesn't fix it :(	06:35
lamont	for file in var/debbuild/avg-build-times var/debbuild/avg-build-space; do install -m0664 -o${USER} -gbuildd /dev/null ${chroot}/${file}; done	06:35
lamont	fix etc/apt/sources.list	06:35
elmo	tsig.c:293: REQUIRE(targetp != ((void )0) && targetp == ((void *)0)) failed.	06:35
elmo	zsh: abort nsupdate	06:35
lamont	grep -q "^${USER}:" ${chroot}/etc/passwd \|\|	06:35
lamont	getent passwd ${USER} >> ${chroot}/etc/passwd	06:35
lamont	grep -q "^buildd:" ${chroot}/etc/group \|\|	06:35
lamont	getent group buildd >> ${chroot}/etc/group	06:35
lamont	grep -q "^${USER}:" ${chroot}/etc/shadow \|\|	06:35
lamont	echo ${USER}:\*:$(getent shadow ${USER} \| cut -d: -f3-9) >> ${chroot}/etc/shadow	06:35
lamont	grep -q "^proc-${USER}-$rel$flavor " /etc/fstab \|\|	06:35
lamont	echo proc-${USER}-$rel$flavor ${UHOME}/${chroot}/proc proc rw 0 0 >> /etc/fstab	06:35
lamont	mount proc-${USER}-$rel$flavor \|\| true	06:35
lamont	[ -f /etc/source-dependencies-${rel}${flavor} ] \|\|	06:36
lamont	:> /etc/source-dependencies-${rel}${flavor}	06:36
lamont	ew. sorry about the flood.	06:36
T-Bone	lamont: actually i think it'd be much simpler for you to mail me that ;P	06:36
lamont	elmo: that's not fixed?	06:36
lamont	T-Bone: yea	06:36
T-Bone	lamont: ETA?	06:36
elmo	lamont: the first one I tried worked - the second didn't :(	06:37
lamont	T-Bone: scp done	06:38
lamont	T-Bone: script sent, extract as needed.. :-)	06:38
T-Bone	lamont: wget in progress	06:39
lamont	thom: take steps from /usr/share/buildd-config/build-chroot on any buildd	06:39
lamont	thom: t-bone got the sanitized script	06:39
T-Bone	lamont: ok, chroot extracted	06:40
T-Bone	lamont: anything i should change to your script?	06:40
lamont	elmo: would it be extremely painful to use the wayback machine to get the .debs for everything in hoglet for all architectures?	06:41
lamont	T-Bone: yeah - just read it and do what it says..	06:41
lamont	that script starts from scratch, and builds a warty chroot, assuming that you have a warty repository to start from.	06:41
lamont	so find the debootstrap, and start right after that.	06:41
T-Bone	lamont: so it's to be run within the warty chroot?	06:42
lamont	the pinning probably needs some tlc, etc.	06:42
lamont	no.	06:42
lamont	that runs outside the chroot, to _BUILD_ the chroot	06:42
lamont	but we don't meet the conditions it requires (we're bootstrapping...)	06:42
elmo	lamont: huh? why on earth do you want hoglet?	06:42
lamont	elmo: what I really want is a coherent sid as of June 28	06:43
lamont	snapshot.debian.net's datespec Packages files are rather, um, sparse.	06:43
lamont	T-Bone: in that chroot, apt-get install build-essential, btw.	06:43
T-Bone	for file in var/debbuild/avg-build-times var/debbuild/avg-build-space Curren	06:44
T-Bone	tlyBuilding; do	06:44
=== trukulo [~trukulo@docsis65-46.menta.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
T-Bone	this is relative to the chroot i guess?	06:44
lamont	yeah	06:45
lamont	you can skip CurrentlyBuilding, btw	06:45
lamont	T-Bone: more to the point, it uses ${chroot}${file} :-)	06:46
lamont	elmo: and I don't care if it's sid or sarge.	06:46
elmo	lamont: we just keep the files not the packages files - I don't see any sane way to get what you're asking - can't you just do the double bootstrap thing?	06:48
T-Bone	lamont: so i skip the for loop, but i have to edit sources.list, right?	06:48
lamont	elmo: OK. was hoping for something trivial	06:48
lamont	yes	06:48
lamont	the sources.list in the tarball points to 'ia', and you want 'archive.ubuntu.com'	06:49
lamont	otherwise, it's right	06:49
T-Bone	ok	06:49
=== ore [romain@yeast.orebokech.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
ore	Hi	06:50
ore	is there someone behind mailman@lists.ubuntu.com?	06:51
lamont	elmo: the issue is that debootstrap wants _one_ mirror, and we ain't got one. (Although snapshot.d.n comes close...)	06:51
=== thom drums fingers
thom	retreving perl	06:51
T-Bone	btw: i have a funny bug: when i login to my warty box, the "X" cursor appears on the center of the screen, but it's not the actuall arrow cursor. It stays there on top of everything	06:52
lamont	thom: no complaining: 8% [3 binutils 1422412/2996kB 47%] 3511B/s 1h17m42s	06:52
=== lamont unthrottles
lamont	6 minutes is a biit better...	06:53
T-Bone	lamont: you have to be kidding ;^)	06:54
=== T-Bone ducks
lamont	T-Bone: wierd.	06:54
=== lamont has (had) about 200 MB of headroom in his bandwidth budget
T-Bone	lamont: i remove all other entries in the sources.list, or i add the new ones?	06:55
thom	unpacking libc6	06:55
lamont	in the tarball, there should only be 2...	06:56
T-Bone	right	06:56
lamont	deb http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/28/debian unstable main	06:56
lamont	deb-src http://ia/ubuntu warty main restricted universe	06:56
T-Bone	yep	06:56
lamont	is what I'm using,	06:56
lamont	that's all you want	06:56
T-Bone	oh	06:56
lamont	for _this_ chroot	06:56
T-Bone	hmm	06:57
T-Bone	ah	06:57
T-Bone	bummer	06:57
T-Bone	let me recap	06:57
T-Bone	once i have unpacked your chroot, what should I do? ;)	06:57
thom	we, i have a chroot	06:57
lamont	T-Bone: in the chroot, apt-get install build-essential	06:59
lamont	then	06:59
T-Bone	done	06:59
lamont	any files/directories created by the script after the chroot should happen, minus sources.list	06:59
lamont	including mods to chroot's passwd,group, and shadow files	06:59
lamont	create chroot/proc, and mount it (mount happens outside the chroot)	07:00
T-Bone	done	07:00
lamont	touch /etc/source-dependencies-warty	07:00
lamont	(outside)	07:00
lamont	apt-get install sbuild	07:00
T-Bone	outside?	07:00
T-Bone	the touch is outside the chroot?	07:00
lamont	yeah - sbuild fetchs things outside the chroot, using sources.list inside the chroot	07:00
T-Bone	ah true	07:00
lamont	so it looks for /etc/source-dependencies-${THING}	07:01
T-Bone	yeah i recall	07:01
T-Bone	sbuild installed (outside)	07:01
T-Bone	chroot-warty# cp -a /etc/passwd /etc/group /etc/shadow etc/	07:02
lamont	T-Bone: lazy. my hacks only add the user, and don't copy the shadow password file..	07:02
T-Bone	lol	07:02
lamont	this is untrusted code running in the chroot, after all.	07:02
T-Bone	lamont: this is a box freshly installed, i am the only user on it	07:02
=== lamont points t-bone at the other window
T-Bone	and it'll be fully dedicated to build everything for ubuntu	07:03
T-Bone	got it	07:03
lamont	kewl	07:03
lamont	once it's all built, we'll use your repository to bootstrap the buildd's repository, and then build everything from scratch there, of course.. :)	07:03
lamont	and then you sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20	07:04
lamont	hrm... do you have ~/.sbuildrc?	07:04
lamont	and ~/logs	07:04
T-Bone	no	07:04
T-Bone	lemme grab it from the hppa sbuild	07:04
lamont	install -d -o${USER} -m0750 logs mqueue old-logs stats stats/graphs upload	07:05
lamont	in your home dir	07:05
T-Bone	lamont: would it be easier for me to run sbuild as root?	07:05
lamont	make sure that /var/debbuild exists (outside)	07:05
lamont	no	07:05
lamont	doesn't help	07:05
lamont	although the user needs to have full sudo wide open with no password...	07:06
T-Bone	visudoing	07:06
lamont	mkdir -p /var/debbuild/srcdep-lock	07:06
lamont	touch /var/debbuild/avg-build-times /var/debbuild/avg-build-space	07:06
lamont	chown -R ${USER}:buildd /var/debbuild/	07:06
seb128	lamont: do you know why mime-shared-info is missing on i386 ?	07:06
seb128	the build log is ok	07:07
T-Bone	${USER}:buildd ?	07:07
seb128	lamont: oups, shared-mime-info <- right name	07:07
T-Bone	lamont: any way i can avoid the damn thing to mail me everything?	07:07
=== T-Bone considers mailing stuff to some gmail storage he has ;)
lamont	seb. sigh	07:10
lamont	T-Bone: set up mail on the local machine, or see /usr/bin/sbuild	07:11
lamont	sbuild --nolog	07:11
T-Bone	will setup on local machine	07:11
T-Bone	we might need logs no matter what	07:12
lamont	but that doesn't give you log files at all, which is bad	07:12
=== T-Bone ^5s lamont ;)
=== T-Bone points lamont at the other window
lamont	$mailprog="/bin/true"; :)	07:13
T-Bone	lol	07:13
T-Bone	perfect ;)	07:13
T-Bone	ok	07:13
T-Bone	what's next?	07:13
lamont	sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20	07:14
T-Bone	varenet@gandalf:~$ sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20	07:15
T-Bone	Bad distribution	07:15
T-Bone	sigh	07:15
jdub	oh man	07:15
lamont	is the chroot named chroot-warty?	07:15
jdub	did i miss an sbuild tute?	07:15
T-Bone	yes	07:15
lamont	doh.	07:15
T-Bone	jdub: you did ;)	07:15
jdub	oh man	07:15
lamont	damn debian sbuild	07:15
lamont	#die "Bad distribution\n"	07:15
lamont	# if !isin($main::distribution, keys(%main::dist_order));	07:15
lamont	you need to add the #'s to your file.. :-)	07:15
T-Bone	jdub: don't worry. lamont volunteered to write it down	07:15
T-Bone	lamont: where is it?	07:16
lamont	/usr/bin/sbuild	07:16
lamont	about line 570 or so	07:16
jdub	lamont: the sbuild package is poo, right? and real sbuild is maintained elsewhere?	07:16
lamont	search for Bad distribution :-)	07:16
lamont	jdub: yes	07:16
T-Bone	$main::distribution = "unstable" if $main::distribution eq "u";	07:16
T-Bone	die "Bad distribution\n"	07:16
lamont	and we had to fork	07:16
lamont	t-bone; the die, and the line _following_	07:17
jdub	lamont: can we have elite sbuild in ubuntu?	07:17
T-Bone	lamont: yeah. I trash them both?	07:17
T-Bone	jdub: we can have 3l33t only ;)	07:17
lamont	jdub: chinstrap:~lamont/archive has our sbuild et al	07:17
jdub	ahr!	07:17
lamont	t-bone: yes.	07:17
T-Bone	varenet@gandalf:~$ sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20	07:18
T-Bone	varenet@gandalf:~$	07:18
lamont	I added this after the options parsing:	07:18
T-Bone	that was quick :P	07:18
lamont	die "Need distribution\n" if $main::distribution eq "bogus";	07:18
lamont	and set distribution=bogus above	07:18
lamont	it's a small package, or it died	07:18
lamont	ls, should have ed_0.2-20_ia64.changes	07:18
lamont	et al	07:18
T-Bone	Checking available source versions...	07:18
T-Bone	/usr/bin/apt-cache failed	07:18
lamont	you were root when you untarred, yes?	07:19
T-Bone	yes	07:19
lamont	and ls chroot-warty/proc shows stuff, not an empty dir?	07:19
azeem	is proc really needed for sbuiling?	07:19
T-Bone	/proc on /home/varenet/chroot-warty/proc type none (rw,bind)	07:19
lamont	sudo chroot chroot-warty apt-get update	07:19
lamont	azeem: there are things that won't build without it, or (worse) build incorrectly	07:20
T-Bone	lamont: ah, that's it. I forgot the visudo step ;)	07:20
lamont	T-Bone: sbuild doesn't auto-update either.	07:20
lamont	the buildd normally does that	07:20
azeem	lamont: ok, but not in the general case	07:20
lamont	azeem: right. But t-bone is trying to build everything...	07:20
azeem	ok, ok	07:21
T-Bone	lamont: i must have crap in my sources.list. Got 404s	07:21
lamont	T-Bone: and remember, if you don't redirect stdin away from a tty (at least), then there is at least one package whose build hangs...	07:21
lamont	T-Bone: ??	07:21
lamont	what do you have?	07:21
T-Bone	lamont: what's the full domain name for 'ia' please?	07:21
lamont	archive.ubuntu.com	07:21
lamont	ia is my throttled mirror - you wouldn't like it.	07:22
T-Bone	much better	07:22
=== lamont _did_ say to change that... :-)
T-Bone	lol	07:22
T-Bone	you _did_ confuse me ;)	07:23
lamont	now parse chroot-warty/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_warty_main_source_Sources to build a list of source_version's, and feed that to sbuild	07:24
seb128	lamont: about shared-mime-info ?	07:24
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont	that'd be step (2) from the mail..	07:24
lamont	seb128: fixed	07:24
seb128	ok thanks	07:24
lamont	seb128: when I kill buildd on a machine, I expect it to stay dead.	07:24
T-Bone	Cannot opendir chroot-warty/var/debbuild/srcdep-lock: No such file or director	07:25
=== T-Bone curses lamont
T-Bone	you said that was _outside_ ;P	07:25
lamont	T-Bone: it's both	07:25
T-Bone	Waiting for job(s) 1 to finish	07:25
T-Bone	it's stuck on that, fwiw	07:25
lamont	kill lots of stuff	07:25
thom	lamont is good at the confusion	07:26
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont	t-bone: and mkdir chroot-warty/build/varenet (and chown)	07:27
lamont	thom: ??	07:27
lamont	oh, the kill buildd comment?	07:27
thom	lamont: just generally	07:27
T-Bone	lamont: still stuck	07:27
T-Bone	lamont: i don't think that's normal	07:27
T-Bone	ah that's it	07:28
T-Bone	ok, trying again	07:28
T-Bone	Couldn't cd to chroot-warty/build/varenet/: No such file or directory	07:28
T-Bone	grrrr	07:29
lamont	<lamont> t-bone: and mkdir chroot-warty/build/varenet (and chown)	07:29
T-Bone	lol	07:29
T-Bone	Built successfully	07:30
T-Bone	YATTA	07:30
T-Bone	so, now, i have to produce a list of packages to feed sbuild with	07:30
lamont	<lamont> now parse chroot-warty/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_warty_main_source_Sources to build a list of source_version's, and feed that to sbuild	07:31
thom	i could get _really_ bored of building firefox	07:31
lamont	yeah: grep out Package and Version from that	07:31
thom	and i've just broken my sparc	07:31
thom	gar	07:31
lamont	thom: how borke?	07:31
thom	refusing ssh connections	07:31
T-Bone	lamont: it's storing everything in my homedir. Any way i can change that?	07:31
thom	i'll fix it when i stop using that monitor for watching dvds	07:33
lamont	T-Bone: umount chroot-warty/proc; mkdir build; mv chroot-warty build; fix the mount point, remount.	07:34
lamont	and then run sbuild from inside build	07:34
lamont	thom/jdub: if you use _our_ sbuild, then you do care about ${chroot}/CurrentlyBuilding	07:35
lamont	which must be writable by the user running sbuild	07:36
=== T-Bone tries to figure out how to easily merge Package and Version fields
lamont	T-Bone: be lazy.	07:38
lamont	apt-get install quinn-diff	07:38
T-Bone	lamont: sure, i'd like to :P	07:38
lamont	fetch warty Sources	07:38
T-Bone	in the chroot?	07:38
lamont	quinn-diff -A ia64 -p /dev/null -s Sources	07:38
lamont	outside	07:39
lamont	but you do have the Sources file in the chroot already	07:39
mdz	morning	07:40
T-Bone	lamont: ok, that gives me lines like "libs/libwnck_2.8.0-0ubuntu1.dsc [optional:uncompiled] "	07:41
T-Bone	can i feed that to sbuild directly?	07:41
lamont	no.	07:41
lamont	sed 's:^./$.$.dsc.*:\1:	07:41
lamont	'	07:41
T-Bone	just great ;)	07:42
T-Bone	[quinn-diff] : warning: ubuntu-sounds has an architecture field of "all" which doesn't include ia64.	07:42
lamont	yeah, but that's easier...	07:42
T-Bone	should i ignore these?	07:42
lamont	yeah	07:42
lamont	it is... :-)	07:42
T-Bone	=)	07:43
lamont	those are packages that have no arch-dep component	07:43
T-Bone	oic	07:43
lamont	so they're _ALREADY_BUILT_ for your architecture!!! :-)	07:43
T-Bone	bummer	07:43
T-Bone	yeah true. I just wondered why this would make a warning	07:43
T-Bone	ok so no big time for xargs, right?	07:43
T-Bone	s/no/now/	07:44
lamont	quinn-diff wants to be run intelligently...	07:44
T-Bone	lol	07:44
T-Bone	that's a crime ;)	07:44
lamont	xargs not needed for main, dunno about universe...	07:44
T-Bone	no, i mean "cat list \| xargs sbuild"	07:44
=== lamont said: sbuild -dwarty $(</tmp/zz) < /dev/null >/dev/null 2>&1 &
T-Bone	lol	07:44
T-Bone	fine!	07:44
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont	that takes about 48 hours or so on a good x86 machines, iirc	07:45
T-Bone	started	07:46
lamont	if I had bandwidth, we could share... :-(	07:46
T-Bone	don't worry	07:46
T-Bone	btw, i wonder if it'll take advantage of SMP	07:46
T-Bone	i guess no	07:46
lamont	and now you have time to kill while that runs, figuring out the CD stuff on i386.	07:47
lamont	marginally	07:47
lamont	only in that gcc and as and ld will run on separate cpus...	07:47
T-Bone	correct	07:47
lamont	then when the build finishes and you know how to make CD's, then you can make d-i work on ia64.	07:48
T-Bone	well, it should be pretty fast. Dual mckinley 900Mhz with 4GB RAM	07:48
lamont	while the total flush/rebuild happens	07:48
lamont	shouldn't be tooo bad	07:48
T-Bone	lamont: hehe, that'd be quite nice ;)	07:48
T-Bone	you betcha!	07:48
=== pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel
T-Bone	lamont: or else, i can start an hppa bootstrap in the meantime ;)	07:49
=== T-Bone ducks
=== T-Bone has a L1000 currently idling on setiathome
lamont	T-Bone: go for it.	07:50
T-Bone	lol	07:50
=== lamont has no time, and no machine currently - busted kernel needs help
lamont	and see issue #1. :(	07:50
lamont	_and_ it's a b180.	07:50
T-Bone	lamont: the problem is debootstrap actually	07:50
T-Bone	#1N	07:50
T-Bone	s/N/?/	07:50
lamont	* lamont has no time,	07:51
T-Bone	lol	07:51
T-Bone	so you'd better deal with porting d-i later, right?	07:51
lamont	gimme root on the box, and I'll give you a chroot	07:51
T-Bone	sure np	07:51
T-Bone	hold on	07:51
lamont	I figured you'd be the hppa/ia64 d-i god, dude...	07:51
T-Bone	lol	07:51
T-Bone	i've never touched d-i yet ;)	07:51
lamont	ditto	07:51
T-Bone	gonna have fun ;)	07:52
T-Bone	lamont: send me an ssh2 pubkey please	07:52
T-Bone	i wonder if i shouldn't setup a local mirror of warty sources	07:52
T-Bone	if i'm going to run two test buildds, i'd need to spare bandwidth	07:53
lamont	want my scripts?	07:53
T-Bone	sure!	07:53
T-Bone	lamont: a rough idea of the disk space needed?	07:53
lamont	warty main, restricted, and a bit of universe, for i386 and source --> 3.8GB	07:54
T-Bone	that's tiny!	07:55
T-Bone	let's go for it	07:55
T-Bone	lamont: please send me your scripts along with a ssh2 key	07:55
lamont	ok	07:55
=== T-Bone notices the other window
lamont	mdz?	08:00
npmccallum	is there anyone here that can do debuggin on a samba/smb setup?	08:05
npmccallum	(ie. you have windows)	08:05
npmccallum	(or are using samba for printer sharing)	08:05
mdz	lamont: ?	08:12
lamont	1577.. I'd like to just sync..	08:13
lamont	(yeah, I know...)	08:13
lamont	<lamont> (A) shipping an RC is really, really, ugly. (B) 9.2.4 just released, (C) upstream is good about not releasing until they've fixed things. (D) it's been verified to fix #1577.	08:13
lamont	<lamont> jdub: can we sync it from debian? please, please, please, please	08:13
lamont	<jdub> lamont: i'm going to defer to mdz on this one, sorry :-)	08:13
lamont	<jdub> lamont: it has my approval if he's happy with it	08:13
mdz	lamont: it's not even in unstable yet :-)	08:15
lamont	well, yeah	08:15
lamont	but it will be in 45 minutes...	08:15
thom	thunderbird 0.8 looks like it sucks as much as 0.7, can i upload?	08:16
npmccallum	mdz: I haven't heard anything about what we are allowed to change on the openoffice splash screen. Do you want me to simply do something like: http://www.natemccallum.com/uooo.png ?	08:17
thom	mdz: that was to you, sorry	08:18
lamont	thom: you're supposed to say "0.8 looks like it sucks no more than 0.7, can I upload?" :-)	08:19
thom	same odds :-)	08:19
mdz	thom: yes	08:24
thom	'k	08:24
thom	(i'm having to binary search through the patches and config for firefox to work out why find is broken, it's not fun)	08:25
mdz	npmccallum: did you ask someone about the restrictions?	08:25
npmccallum	mdz: I asked in #openoffice.org and on the mailing list	08:25
mdz	npmccallum: and no one replied at all?	08:25
npmccallum	mdz: mailing list == dev@distribution.openoffice.org	08:25
npmccallum	mdz: no reply on the mailing list	08:26
npmccallum	mdz: in the channel I got a "you're probably fine with whatever -- IANAL"	08:26
npmccallum	mdz: as long as we stick close to what debian has done, there should be no problem for this release	08:26
azeem	why don't you use the vanilla splash? Do you also brand evolution and so?	08:27
npmccallum	mdz: vanilla splash is an option too	08:27
sivang	T-Bone : so, a ia64 warty is expected?	08:30
T-Bone	sivang: i'm not to one to tell	08:34
sivang	T-Bone : good luck with setting up the sources and buildds !	08:35
T-Bone	heh	08:35
T-Bone	thx	08:36
T-Bone	but that's not the most difficult part	08:36
pitti	mdz: can you please take a look at #1599 and approve?	08:41
pitti	mdz: this is half a step backwards, but I tried to make the new gnome-vfs2 play well with our system the whole day; I agreed with sabdfl that I should just upload a working version now and do the bonus work later, if there is more time	08:42
thom	firefox is making baby jesus cry a frickin' river	08:48
=== seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-7-4.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
schweeb	thom: I'm about 2 more type-ahead-finds from an install of the old version	08:53
pitti	schweeb: already done :-) Now that the feature is not available, I just recognized how useful it is :-)	08:54
=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-224-137.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
schweeb	pitti: well it works... somewhat/barely	08:54
schweeb	and the backspace = go back a page is frigging killing me	08:55
schweeb	just cause people use IE doesn't mean we can't make them fix their bad habits	08:55
npmccallum	is there an authoritative mime type list anywhere?	09:07
seb128	?	09:09
npmccallum	that I can browse/search through mime types...	09:09
seb128	the files in /usr/share/mime/ ?	09:10
seb128	/usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml	09:11
teuf	I'd recommend looking at the corresponding .org.xml.in file from shared-mime-info source since it doesn't have all the translations	09:11
pitti	seb128: I'm going to upload gvfs now (see #1599); it will also close #1636 (Trash); do you have any other changes to make?	09:25
seb128	let me check	09:26
=== lamont realizes that the reason he's hungry is that he forgot to get lunch. bbiab
seb128	pitti: apparently no, just go for it	09:30
pitti	seb128: okay	09:30
seb128	mdz: here ?	09:30
mdz	seb128: yes	09:37
mdz	npmccallum: if you have any doubts, just go with vanilla splash	09:37
seb128	mdz: have you read my mail on -devel about eagle-usb las tweek ?	09:37
mdz	npmccallum: mark said he was fine with that	09:37
mdz	seb128: I remember seeing it	09:38
seb128	mdz: there is a thread about it on -user today	09:38
seb128	jdub said he's fine with uploading eagle-usb and to move it to supportedseed/shipseed if you're ok	09:39
mdz	I am not familiar with the software; does it require kernel modules?	09:40
mdz	how many packages do we need? there seemed to be several with similar names	09:40
npmccallum	mdz: I'm also waiting for approval on #1630	09:40
mdz	npmccallum: you added a conflicts: gnome-audio ?	09:40
mdz	or something else?	09:41
npmccallum	mdz: I also tweaked two of the sounds, but its not code related (just volume changes)	09:41
mdz	npmccallum: ok, go ahead	09:41
=== T-Bone is now known as T-None
npmccallum	mdz: should we add a conflicts to gnome-audio as well?	09:43
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Client]
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdz	@#$@# xchat shortcuts	09:43
seb128	mdz: yes, need a kernel module. The source package build a -src package for the module that's all	09:43
npmccallum	mdz: should we add a conflicts to gnome-audio as well?	09:43
mdz	seb128: can you send mail to -devel with all of the details about which packages we need?	09:43
mdz	npmccallum: I thought you implied that you already did that	09:43
seb128	mdz: ok	09:43
mdz	npmccallum: did you fix #1630 some other way?	09:44
npmccallum	mdz: I added "Conflict: gnome-audio" to the ubuntu-sounds package, should "Conflicts: ubuntu-sounds" go into gnome-audio as well?	09:44
npmccallum	(gnome-audio is in universe)	09:45
mdz	npmccallum: no, conflicts: gnome-audio on ubuntu-sounds is sufficient	09:45
mdz	they work both ways	09:45
npmccallum	mdz: I thought so, just wanted to check... also, I have the change to libgnome-common done (enables sounds by default). However, at seb128's suggestion, I have not depended on ubuntu-sounds. He suggesting adding it to desktop seed.	09:46
thom	mdz: does xchat not use the gtk key bindings?	09:57
mdz	npmccallum: why not depend on ubuntu-sounds?	09:57
mdz	if sounds are enabled by default, and ubuntu-sounds is not installed, won't that cause a problem?	09:57
npmccallum	mdz: no	09:57
npmccallum	mdz: it just acts gracefully	09:57
mdz	thom: the last time I looked, it had a hard-coded ^W shortcut	09:58
mdz	even though I think it is a default gtk binding, which can be overridden globally otherwise	09:58
mdz	npmccallum: ok, fine with me	09:58
mdz	I'll add ubuntu-sounds to desktop	09:58
npmccallum	ok, the new ubuntu-sounds should be in the queue	09:58
mdz	however, that means that existing users will never get it	09:58
mdz	which is a shame	09:59
npmccallum	mdz: if we want to we can add a depend to ubuntu-artwork :)	10:00
mdz	we could add an ubuntu-desktop package to desktop, which would be used to pull in new dependencies in the future	10:00
sivang	maybe a package can be introduced into the installer, that will check new pkgs that we _want_ users to get, so it will install a set of new different pkgs each time a regular warty (even old snapshot) is installed.	10:00
sivang	hmm ;) you just said what I thought about..	10:01
mdz	sivang: we already do that	10:01
mdz	but users who upgrade aren't helped by it	10:01
sivang	i see	10:01
mdz	another option would be to add a script to ubuntu-base	10:01
sivang	than adding a desktop package is a good thing, I guess	10:02
mdz	which would run aptitude install '~tubuntu-desktop'	10:02
thom	mdz: yeuch	10:02
mdz	thom: we're going to have something like that anyway, for woody upgrades	10:02
sivang	sounds like reasonable enough	10:02
thom	(yeuch to xchat, i mean)	10:02
mdz	something which lets them say "give me the ubuntu desktop"	10:02
sivang	exactly	10:02
=== sivang nods for support.
npmccallum	and its entirely unambiguous :)	10:03
=== npmccallum seconds
npmccallum	mdz: do I have approval to upload new libgnome? (just enables sounds by default)	10:05
mdz	npmccallum: yes, have seb review it if you are unsure	10:05
mdz	brb	10:09
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdz	thom: aha	10:10
mdz	thom: new xchat has an ugly workaround	10:10
mdz	thom: if the gtk key theme is set to emacs _when xchat starts_, it changes the keybinding	10:10
thom	eww	10:10
elmo	npmccallum: please get ubuntu-sounds added to the apporpriate seed	10:12
npmccallum	elmo: <mdz> I'll add ubuntu-sounds to desktop	10:12
mdz	seb128, npmccallum: what was the reason for not wanting it as a dependency?	10:13
npmccallum	mdz: so people can remove it if they don't want it	10:13
seb128	because that's not mandatory ?	10:13
mdz	is it large?	10:13
mdz	ah, it is	10:13
mdz	ok	10:13
mdz	works for me	10:13
seb128	fine	10:13
mdz	so if a user upgrades, and then installs ubuntu-sounds, does that enable the sounds?	10:16
mdz	or are they disabled if they are missing?	10:16
npmccallum	if the sounds are missing, no settings change, the sounds just don't play	10:16
npmccallum	its basically like -- if sounds_enabled() and sounds_exist(): play_sounds()	10:17
npmccallum	mdz: I can dither down the size on those sounds btw, I just know a lot of people like Hifi stuff. Plus, some sound cards only play at 44.1khz, which can be a pain	10:21
mdz	npmccallum: I don't think it's excessive	10:21
mdz	but it's large enough that people who are concerned about space, and don't want the sounds anyway, could very well want to remove it	10:21
npmccallum	ok	10:22
thom	GRAR. make distclean doesn't	10:23
thom	15kl diff.gz	10:29
thom	of which a thousand lines are debian/	10:29
thom	and the rest is autogen'd crap	10:29
=== lamont goes to see how much love mdz has sent his way this morning
mdz	lamont: our special this evening is a delicious freshly-resurrected getty bug, braised in a light tty sauce	10:31
mdz	that thing is still wreaking havoc on the console	10:31
lamont	mdz: yeah - I saw that one.	10:31
lamont	and it's top of the list	10:31
lamont	then there are a few others...	10:31
lamont	btw, had any thoughts on 1577, now that it's in debian?? :-)	10:32
=== lamont disables gdm on his laptop
=== sivang has never felt too comfortable with gdm
lamont	sivang: I just need a console login to break things with	10:36
m_tthew	mdz: ping	10:37
mdz	m_tthew: pong	10:37
sivang	lamont : I have one running on my gf's laptop only because she's like "please don't let me see those black screens that you like so much"	10:37
m_tthew	mdz: the athlon arrived, bit of a roadbump installing	10:37
m_tthew	mdz: am looking for a little 'here is a nice path to bug report' guidance	10:38
m_tthew	mdz: boot from usb works great, installer can't find the cdrom drive	10:38
sivang	lamont : i really feel more comfortable loggin console.	10:38
mdz	m_tthew: Component: cdrom-detect	10:38
m_tthew	ack	10:39
lamont	mdz: btw, did you see my gross fix for postfix and /etc/aliases.db?	10:39
schweeb	m_tthew: which brand of cdrom?	10:39
mdz	lamont: no	10:39
schweeb	m_tthew: had problems with liteon + d-i myself	10:39
m_tthew	schweeb: it's LG DVDblahblah in an USB ATA enclosure	10:39
lamont	mdz: postalias requires myhostname to be non-null or it dies. choices are: rewrite newalias (ugh), or notice that it's null, set it non-null, run newaliases, and then restore main.cf...	10:40
mdz	m_tthew: oh, the same one I have (approximately)?	10:40
m_tthew	works 100% connected to my i386 ubuntu box, but I did not install from it there	10:40
m_tthew	mdz: yeah it is the dual layer version of yours	10:40
m_tthew	mdz: in that enclosure	10:40
schweeb	m_tthew: it boots via the usbcdrom and then can't find the install media, essentially?	10:41
m_tthew	schweeb: exactly	10:41
schweeb	that's exactly the problem I've been having with regular d-i	10:41
schweeb	I think it's a kernel issue combined with bad firmware	10:41
m_tthew	I am pretty USB naive so I don't know what module should load anyway	10:41
m_tthew	delightful	10:41
mdz	lamont: what was the blocker on gnucash again?	10:41
schweeb	LG and Lite-ON are probably close to the same hardware	10:41
schweeb	m_tthew: remember the mdk installer that would kill cdrom drives? think it's related to that... probably fixed the kernel so it would never do that	10:42
schweeb	so, in short, look for new firmware (or a diff drive)	10:42
m_tthew	ack	10:42
sivang	schweeb : i've had numerous bugs and problems with LG, my new liteon drive has never given me any trouble. you sure they are the same chipset / framwork based?	10:43
schweeb	sivang: well, I have 2 liteon drives in my desk that don't work.... every single IBM NetVista that I purchase can't install via d-i unless I use a different CDROM	10:44
schweeb	but	10:44
lamont	thom/sabdfl: gtkpbbuttons and powerprefs both ftbfs, missing build-deps	10:44
lamont	thom: but they got past pbbuttons	10:44
schweeb	I can install via the old Blade XFS Netinstall just fine	10:44
schweeb	Lite-On Model LTN-486s and LTN-483S	10:44
=== mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thom	lamont: ping me the logs?	10:45
sivang	schweeb : guess it's more than just the cdrom, maybe the whole system makeup - all my d-i (debian/ubuntu) installs using that drive, never had a problem. fast as a deamon	10:46
lamont	thom: first two on the list today: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/20040923.html	10:47
schweeb	sivang: same model of liteon as me?	10:47
lamont	both need gtk+2.0, and powerprefs? neesd path-config	10:47
sivang	schweeb : what's the model # ?	10:47
schweeb	Lite-On Model LTN-486s and LTN-483S	10:47
schweeb	CDROMs	10:48
schweeb	some guy was having the same problem, and posted to LKML with no response	10:49
sivang	schweeb : hmm sorry, I have a cdrw = SOHR-5238S ;-)	10:49
schweeb	IBM systems (same as me)	10:49
schweeb	sivang: of course the firmware would be diff :p	10:49
sivang	schweeb : yes ofcourse. I had problems with LG hardware and d-i, (was also a cdrw) that's why i got confused.	10:50
schweeb	ah	10:50
thom	lamont: thanks	10:50
schweeb	these actually could be CDRWs, but they have no markings to indicate so	10:50
schweeb	ugh	10:50
schweeb	gotta download msttcorefonts	10:50
schweeb	liteon's site fonts look utterly horrible	10:51
sivang	yes,. I heared also that a dvdrom is actually a dvdrw, with a minor fimrware patch that can even downloaded from the internet	10:51
schweeb	yea	10:51
schweeb	Liteon is pretty famous for such things	10:51
schweeb	makes it cheaper for them... it's not like everyone's gonna be willing to flash their firmware to get a dvdrw... some will buy it	10:52
sivang	i like the drive alot. serves my ubuntu testing needs very well. I really HATED the lg, so buggy and unstable	10:52
sivang	eight	10:52
sivang	right	10:52
thom	lamont: this is the trouble with single platform packages in debian, i guess	10:54
lamont	thom: certainly	10:55
pitti	sjoerd: do you already have packaged hal 0.2.98? If so, I don't need to do that again	11:03
sjoerd	pitti: it's basically done, yes	11:04
pitti	sjoerd: I would like to prepare them for Warty; many of my changes are adopted upstream now, but there are still some ubuntu-specific packages	11:06
pitti	sjoerd: s/packages$/patches/	11:06
pitti	sjoerd: do you still need to work on them?	11:06
sjoerd	pitti: one patch so it finds the usb usermap libgphoto2 now installs	11:07
pitti	sjoerd: oh, I think I can handle that :-)	11:07
sjoerd	http://luon.net/~sjoerd/hal/hal-0.2.98/	11:07
pitti	sjoerd: thanks!	11:07
sjoerd	and some testing ofcourse	11:07
pitti	sjoerd: yes, I will not upload them into Warty before about a week of testing	11:08
sjoerd	anyway, i need to wait for a dbus update before i can update it in debian	11:08
pitti	sjoerd: since I also need to upgrade other packages (dbus, gnome-volume-manager)	11:08
pitti	sjoerd: oh, 0.2.98 doesn't work with dbus 0.22?	11:08
sjoerd	pitti: it does, but the python bindings don't have support for 64 bit values	11:09
sjoerd	so hdm fails	11:09
pitti	sjoerd: hdm?	11:09
sjoerd	hal-device-manager :)	11:09
pitti	ah	11:09
sjoerd	http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272862	11:09
pitti	sjoerd: ugh, if hal-device-manager fails, we cannot put it into warty	11:09
sjoerd	i've put a patch there too, so if you need to update dbus anyway :)	11:10
pitti	sjoerd: I just saw the patch; doesn't look too scary	11:11
sjoerd	that's from dbus cvs, so should be ok	11:12
sjoerd	pitti: to what version of g-v-m are you upgrading	11:12
pitti	sjoerd: I did not yet look at that	11:12
pitti	sjoerd: I want to prepare and test hal and dbus first	11:12
sjoerd	pitti: i've got a gvm 1.0.2 package mostly ready with patch to work with hal 0.2.98	11:13
pitti	seb128: do we need a newer g-v-m for nautilus-cd-burner locking?	11:13
sjoerd	pitti: you probably want the patch from the g-v-m development branch to not do stuff on locked drives	11:13
pitti	sjoerd: definitively, that's the sole reason why we do all this upgrading hell during deep freeze :-/	11:14
sjoerd	hehe	11:14
sjoerd	pitti: http://luon.net/~sjoerd/hal/gvm-1.0.2/	11:15
sjoerd	same as for hal, not completely finished needs some testing	11:15
pitti	sjoerd: today it took me the whole day to (partly) overcome the implications of a bugfix release of gnome-vfs; so I'm hesitant about new upstream releases...	11:15
sjoerd	and doesn't contain the locking patch..	11:15
lamont	Kamion: sleeping?	11:17
pitti	sjoerd: oh, nice, my hal-cdspeed patch already made it into your version :-)	11:17
sjoerd	pitti: about 2 min. after you posted it :)	11:17
pitti	sjoerd: what took you so long :-)	11:18
sjoerd	fetchmail only gets my mail every five minutes ;)	11:18
pitti	sjoerd: ugh, my hal's diff.gz is 177 KB, your's 12 kb. Let's see...	11:18
sjoerd	pitti: a lot of the patches i saw in your hal, where already fixed upstream for some time	11:20
elmo	gar	11:20
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
elmo	npmccallum: Replaces: not Conflicts for simple file overwrites	11:20
pitti	sjoerd: I know, 5 of the 10 are from me :-)	11:21
sjoerd	pitti: g-v-m contains not mount just everything on startup. If your going to use that, i don't know if it's going to make it upstream (almost zero reaction on the list)	11:21
sjoerd	but it solves something a lot of people complain about	11:21
npmccallum	elmo: ok, I'll make another one	11:22
pitti	sjoerd: what do you mean by "not mount just everything on startup"?	11:22
npmccallum	elmo: conflicts and replaces? or just replaces?	11:22
pitti	sjoerd: I thought it should only mount hotpluggable devices?	11:22
pitti	sjoerd: ah, you mean devices that are plugged in during boot?	11:22
sjoerd	pitti: gvm upstream tries to mount all volume on startup now	11:23
sjoerd	since 0.9.10	11:23
elmo	npmccallum: just replaces for file overwrites	11:24
npmccallum	did you deny the current one?	11:25
elmo	no?	11:25
npmccallum	ok	11:26
elmo	I only process stuff when it's NEW.. I was just catching up on bugzilla spam	11:26
lamont	mdz: oh man of much vim joyfulnessmaking...	11:35
mdz	lamont: hmm? about to try to find something to eat	11:35
lamont	yes or no: gui? gnome=yes. gtk2? kde=no perl? python? ruby? tcl?	11:35
lamont	python=y	11:35
lamont	that is, do you want anything more than the marriage of vim-python\|vim-gnome?	11:36
lamont	and would you like a vim-debian package?	11:37
=== lamont hopes 'no' for that last one....
thom	score. powerprefs and gtkpbbuttons both right first time	11:37
elmo	can we get one of those in supported if not desktop?	11:38
lamont	elmo: vim-debian?	11:38
elmo	no, powerprefs/gtkpbbuttons	11:38
=== lamont breathes a sigh of relief.
elmo	exepcting new users to deal with pbbuttonsd.conf is a bit harsh	11:40
sjoerd	pitti: your doing pmount too right ?	11:44
pitti	sjoerd: yes	11:44
sjoerd	pitti: are you planning to put it in debian ?	11:44
pitti	sjoerd: probably, if I find time for it	11:44
pitti	sjoerd: I should file an ITP for discussion first	11:45
pitti	sjoerd: but I don't want to do this before sarge	11:45
lamont	hrm.. vim-python says --enable-gui=gtk2, and vim-gnome says --enable-gui=gnome2	11:47
sjoerd	some discussion about how to do things in debian would be nice (pmount vs. fstab-sync).. But that's indeed definately sarge+1 stuff	11:47
=== lamont assumes we want gnome2..
azeem	lamont: I don't think there's a big difference between gui=gtk2 and gui=gnome	11:50
=== lamont hopes not. :)
azeem	gvim from vim-gnome looks plain ugly and definetely not GNOMEish	11:51
azeem	(at least on unstable)	11:51
azeem	gvim from vim-python looks exactly the same	11:52
azeem	ah no - the GNOME version has a detachable toolbar ;)	11:53
thom	mdz: that apache2 advisory requires no action from us	11:55
=== lamont wonders if he should throw in the other interps as well.

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