[12:02] <seb128> jdub: happy with a dbus&hal update at this point ?
[12:03] <jdub> seb128: if they go in soon, and mdz is happy with it, then it's a necessary evil :)
[12:03] <seb128> ok, I'll look on this tomorrow so
[12:04] <jdub> cool
[12:14] <Kamion> what's a good name for the udeb spat out by shadow that asks questions about the initial user account to create?
[12:14] <Kamion> it's kind of a clone of passwd.postinst but doesn't have most of the other code in passwd
[12:15] <thom> adduser ?
[12:15] <Kamion> initial-username.udeb?
[12:15] <thom> hmm, no. too confusing
[12:15] <Kamion> and deb/udeb names share a namespace anyway
[12:15] <thom> initial-user.udeb since it does more than just a username
[12:16] <Kamion> if it ever went into Debian it would in principle ask all the questions from passwd.config, which has stuff like "do you want md5 passwords?"
[12:16] <Kamion> passwd-config.udeb?
[12:16] <thom> WFM
[12:17] <Kamion> CONSENSUS
[12:17] <Kamion> woohoo
[12:18] <mdz> jdub: would you create ubuntu-security-announce?
[12:19] <jdub> ok
[12:19] <thom> Kamion: *g*
[12:22] <Kamion> hm, I think I shall delete the root password question entirely from passwd-config.udeb; even if you wanted to set a root password, storing it in the debconf database across reboot would be evil!
[12:24] <thom> mdz: for tbird i'll just upload a port of new debian with our additions for amd64 tomorrow; i don't think a backport is beneficial right now. waddya think?
[12:27] <trukulo> when ubuntu service pack 2 will be released?
[12:27] <trukulo> lol
[12:27] <trukulo> ups, sorry, that's devel channel
[12:29] <Kamion> of course, the user password ends up in the debconf database over reboot ...
[12:29] <Kamion> mdz: you have a problem with that? it'll be deleted as soon as the user's added
[12:31] <mdz> Kamion: config.dat or password.dat?
[12:32] <Kamion> mdz: there's no such distinction in cdebconf
[12:32] <Kamion> sorry, yeah, the *c*debconf database over reboot
[12:32] <mdz> Kamion: :'-(    <-- baby jesus
[12:33] <Kamion> yarrrrrrr
[12:33] <mdz> Kamion: is the cdebconf database world-readable?
[12:33] <mdz> if so, can we make it not so?
[12:33] <Kamion> /var/log/debian-installer/cdebconf/questions.dat is world-readable post-install
[12:33] <Kamion> it would be a pain in the arse to make it not so, since it's useful for bug reports
[12:33] <mdz> is there any reason why it needs to be?
[12:33] <trukulo> can't you save password md5'ed ?
[12:33] <mdz> there is other stuff in /var/log/debian-installer which is not world-readable
[12:33] <mdz> like syslog
[12:33] <Kamion> but we could make it not world-readable if we were willing to suffer the support load
[12:34] <mdz> trukulo: not without extending adduser to support that
[12:34] <trukulo> mdz: ok
[12:34] <Kamion> actually, passwd.config doesn't use adduser for that part
[12:34] <Kamion> it does adduser --disabled-password, then its own evil chpasswd hack
[12:35] <Kamion> mdz: would you be happy for a *hash* of the password to be in a world-readable file? I'm uneasy about it myself
[12:36] <Kamion> I don't think the unencrypted password should be in any file, world-readable or not
[12:36] <mdz> Kamion: not really
[12:36] <mdz> but I'd be even happier with a hash in a non-world-readable file than with a password in a non-world-readable file
[12:36] <Kamion> I think the latter's right out
[12:36] <Kamion> we might as well store /etc/shadow unencrypted at that point
[12:37] <mdz> that's what we'd be doing with the former
[12:37] <trukulo> what about saving password not in database, but in a different file and then remove it later?
[12:37] <Kamion> no, I mean the passwords in /etc/shadow unencrypted :)
[12:37] <Kamion> trukulo: too much work for the time period
[12:37] <mdz> Kamion: me too :-)
[12:37] <trukulo> Kamion: right
[12:38] <mdz> I have no qualms about making questions.dat root-only if we're going to put authentication data in there
[12:38] <Kamion> trukulo: the only way this is even feasible in the TWO DAYS I have to implement this is to use debconf :)
[12:38] <mdz> we can solve the support issue if needed
[12:38] <Kamion> all right
[12:38] <mdz> I'm still a little queasy about putting the password in there
[12:38] <Kamion> then I have to chroot to run perl
[12:38] <trukulo> only two days? then non-readable, as you said before
[12:38] <Kamion> non-readable hash is equivalent to /etc/shadow, clearly ok
[12:39] <trukulo> but if you accomplished that, then people don't need to restart after installation? going into X automatically?
[12:39] <Kamion> they still need to reboot after the first stage
[12:39] <Kamion> I don't think that's negotiable; you need to be sure that the boot loader works
[12:40] <trukulo> but no passwords at first boot after install, that's very usable
[12:40] <trukulo> Kamion: i agree, i prefer forcing to reboot after configuration
[12:40] <Kamion> [personally I don't really see that it's much different from the current case, but the guy who writes the paycheque wins, as lamont sometimes says ...] 
[12:41] <trukulo> :)
[12:41] <trukulo> little diferences like these, makes a good look for users
[12:41] <Kamion> I don't even see the usability win myself :)
[12:42] <trukulo> nor do i, but remember that most people thins graphical installers are better than ncurses
[12:43] <Kamion> to distinguish
[12:43] <Kamion> Joey Hess has observed in the past that I'm one of the few people who uses custom debconf flags in maintainer scripts ...
[12:43] <Kamion> (with a reaction like "wow, you actually do that?", IIRC)
[12:44] <trukulo> i'm not a programmer, i'm only sysadmin :) so i can't understand what you talking 'bout very well
[12:44] <Kamion> just thinking out loud
[12:45] <trukulo> that's good technique
[12:45] <trukulo> when we talk bout we thinking, we're thinking better
[12:45] <trukulo> k, i'll shut up, don't want to make noise here
[12:45] <mdz> jdub: ubuntu-security-announce ready?  I'd like to follow up with a hyperlink to subscribe
[12:46] <jdub> sec
[12:46] <jdub> sorry, didn't think it was immediate request
[12:47] <Kamion> # Use perl rather than echo, to avoid the password
[12:47] <Kamion> # showing in the process table. (However, this is normally
[12:47] <Kamion> # only called when first booting the system, when root has no
[12:47] <Kamion> # password at all, so that should be an unnecessary precaution).
[12:47] <Kamion>         SETPASSWD_PW="$2"
[12:47] <Kamion>         export SETPASSWD_PW
[12:47] <Kamion> surely environment variables show up in the process table too?
[12:48] <Kamion> hm, perhaps only for processes you own
[12:49] <jdub> mdz: explicit reply-to ubuntu-devel?
[12:49] <mdz> jdub: ubuntu-users, please
[12:50] <mdz> Kamion: under Linux, yes, only for processes you own
[12:50] <mdz> a poor feature to rely on for security
[12:52] <Kamion> yeah, fortunately not in fact relied on
[12:53] <Kamion> kind of hard to deal with sensitive data securely in shell
[12:54] <azeem> doogie probably wrote some oo-code for that
[12:55] <Kamion> doogie and secure in the same sentence? :)
[01:05] <Kamion> hm, no registry of prebaseconfig item numbers
[01:29] <jdub> elmo: ping?
[01:37] <mdz> daniels: ping?
[01:41] <lamont> Kamion: I didn't realize that had become "my" statement...
[01:43] <jdub> lamont: build errors coming in :|
[01:43] <jdub> oh, needs NEW flushing
[01:43] <jdub> nm
[01:47] <mdz> fabbione, thom: most recent firefox and xfree86 both have no problems for me on all architectures, thanks!
[01:47] <lamont> jdub???
[01:47] <jdub> lamont: did some new stuff for universe+hoary testing late last night
[01:47] <jdub> fucked up a bit
[01:48] <jdub> i am a bad person
[01:51] <mdz> elmo: ping?
[01:53] <lamont> gah.  so when one changes Makefile.am, just need automake, or autoconf as well>>
[01:54] <azeem> automake
[01:56] <Kamion> lamont: you're who made it familiar to me :)
[02:02] <lamont> Kamion: ah, ok
[02:02] <lamont> also know as the Golden Rule:  he with the gold makes the rules.
[02:03] <jdub> BLING!
[02:03] <lamont> bling-bling
[02:09] <Kamion> Is it frightening that I know the PCI vendor id for Broadcom by heart?
[02:22] <jdub> elmo: ping
[02:30] <lamont> Kamion: there was a time when I could ID many networking cards from the first 3 octets...
[02:31] <lamont> ENOTIME
[02:31] <Kamion> oh, ok, you can have until Monday then
[02:32] <Kamion> would certainly make my life easier if I knew the whole lot by heart :)
[02:33] <lamont> Kamion: I've been known to really annoy people by assembling parisc instructions in my head..
[02:33] <elmo> mdz/jdub: ?
[02:33] <lamont> repeat after me: 8 7 4-1 6 5 19-9 0
[02:33] <lamont> I think that's the order, anyway...
[02:34] <elmo> s/annoy/freak out/
[02:34] <lamont> elmo: yeah
[02:34] <elmo> jdub: is this NEW stuff for universe or main?
[02:34] <lamont> the bad part is when you patch about 6 instructions in one fell swoop, in hex.
[02:34] <lamont> back in a couple of hours.
[02:34] <jdub> elmo: universe
[02:34] <jdub> elmo: can you kill polypaudio  in new?
[02:34] <jdub> elmo: i'll fix that up
[02:35] <elmo> libao-polyp too?
[02:35] <jdub> yeah, ok
[02:36] <elmo> remember, universe stuff needs to be universe/$SECTION... I can override tho, so it's not critical
[02:36] <jdub> oh
[02:36] <jdub> libao-polyp (0.3-1) universe/sound; urgency=low ?
[02:37] <jdub> or in control?
[02:37] <elmo> yeah, but you should change debian/control - not the .changes
[02:37] <jdub> so Section: universe/sound -> for both binaries and source?
[02:37] <Kamion> lamont: you're insane, dude :)
[02:39] <elmo> jdub: yeah
[02:39] <Kamion> jdub: share
[02:39] <jdub> "Rejected at request of bong sipping maintainer
[02:39] <jdub> "
[02:39] <Kamion> :-)
[02:39] <jdub> we should patch our vim to understand our wacky debian/control + changelog foo
[02:40] <jdub> ;)
[02:40] <Kamion> oh yes
[02:41] <elmo> jdub: so am I rejecting them all?
[02:42] <jdub> just those ones
[02:42] <jdub> ready to upload?
[02:42] <elmo> yeah
[02:42] <jdub> rocking, thanks
[02:44] <azeem> did I ask whether you guys are keeping all your main debian/ dirs in a repository?
[02:44] <azeem> if not, do you? =)
[02:45] <jdub> we will
[02:45] <jdub> there's some interesting stuff on the way in that regard :)
[02:45] <azeem> sweet
[02:49] <elmo> (new) polypaudio_0.5-1ubuntu1.dsc optional sound
[02:49] <elmo> is that intentional?
[02:50] <jdub> not universe/sound? no, i did that one before you mentioned it
[02:50] <elmo> ok, no prob, I'll just override
[02:50] <elmo> I assume gamin/howl aren't going to main at this stage either?
[02:51] <jdub> no
[02:51] <jdub> thanks
[02:51] <jdub> i'll do that in future :)
[02:52] <mdz> elmo: upload access for herbert?
[02:52] <mdz> thom: ick, does libapache2-mod-php4 really only work with the prefork mpm?
[02:52] <elmo> well, meh, does anyone have any suggestions on an upload method that allows you to reliably tell when a file's completely uploaded?
[02:53] <Kamion> keep rsyncing until it doesn't do anything? :)
[02:54] <jdub> elmo: run a twisted ftp server, and fire off events when the files are fully uploaded :-)
[02:54] <Kamion> sheesh, new Windows XP Home is 163?
[02:55] <Kamion> not buying that just for testing purposes
[02:55] <Kamion> maybe one of my friends can lend me a copy or something
[02:57] <elmo> expense it ;-)
[02:57] <jdub> "required for the express purpose of bringing freedom to the entire world"
[02:58] <Kamion> tempting
[02:58] <jdub> "(also, doom3 looks very interesting)"
[02:59] <Kamion> actually, very tempting; then I can continue Not Owning A Copy Of Windows
[02:59] <Kamion> ('cos it won't really be mine)
[02:59] <jdub> i didn't get that badge ;)
[03:00] <mdz> are windows XP licenses transferrable?
[03:00] <mdz> if so, you can have the one that came with my laptop
[03:00] <jdub> (they're definitely not with the hardware)
[03:00] <jdub> (dunno about otherwise)
[03:01] <jdub> oh
[03:01] <jdub> lwn
[03:01] <elmo> not legally, but they work
[03:01] <jdub> boh
[03:01] <jdub> not front page
[03:01] <jdub> " Here is a little quiz. Which Linux distribution's mailing list recorded over 1,000 posts during the first week of its existence? Which project succeeded in attracting some of the best-known and most prominent open source developers to work on it? And why do their email addresses invariably end with @canonical.com?"
[03:01] <Kamion> so what's all that product activation about then?
[03:01] <jdub> haw haw
[03:01] <Kamion> I thought it was supposed to stop you transferring copies around?
[03:02] <elmo> kamion: it definitely doesn't, there's a key that's assigned "to the NHS" that must be used on thousands of computers
[03:03] <mdz> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root      2266975 Sep 22 15:42 changelogs
[03:03] <mdz> that's the apt-listchanges output for a woody->warty upgrade on a non-trivial server
[03:03] <elmo> neat
[03:03] <mdz> that's a hell of a lot of changelogs
[03:04] <azeem> oh, so Dave Miller really is *the* Dave Miller. Should have figured.
[03:04] <elmo> uh?
[03:04] <elmo> no, our Dave Miller is not the kernel guy
[03:05] <azeem> then lwn is wrong
[03:05] <elmo> neat
[03:05] <jdub> heh
[03:05] <elmo> I should do that subscription via debian thing sometime
[03:05] <azeem> everbody's been named except elmo
[03:06] <Kamion> plenty of Debian people other than elmo not mentioned either
[03:06] <jdub> azeem: everyone? :)
[03:06] <jdub> Hi,
[03:06] <jdub> Dave Miller on our team is not Dave "dude" Miller, it is Dave "bugzilla
[03:06] <jdub> maintainer" Miller. :-)
[03:06] <jdub> Thanks,
[03:06] <jdub> - Jeff
[03:06] <jdub> 
[03:06] <jdub> ;-)
[03:06] <azeem> heh
[03:06] <Kamion> namechecking me as "Debian QA" is a bit out of date too, but I won't argue :)
[03:06] <elmo> jdub: ITYM, "K, Thanks, Bye.  Love, Jeff"
[03:07] <justdave> haha
[03:07] <jdub> the other dave miller says dude *way* too much
[03:07] <justdave> too many Dave Millers out there :)
[03:08] <justdave> as far as I know, 'davem' still works for Red Hat
[03:08] <elmo> yeah, he does
[03:12] <mdz> oh, lwn is out? I guess they go by UTC
[03:21] <jdub> http://unconcerned.org/index_unbutu.html
[03:21] <jdub> hahahahaha
[03:21] <jdub> (for non-gnome dudes, see goneme.org)
[03:29] <Kamion> :-)
[03:36] <Kamion> new d-i uploaded with slightly branded installation manual, still lots of work to do there
[03:36] <Kamion> shout if it fails to build for some reason; I don't think it will, but ...
[03:50] <mdz> Kamion: night
[04:01] <elmo> my god, the "submit a bug" page is half a mb big?
[04:07] <justdave> most of that is probably the component list.
[04:14] <daniels> mdz: pong
[04:14] <jdub> so
[04:14] <jdub> sbuild or pbuilder
[04:14] <jdub> ?
[04:14] <mdz> elmo: dude, that's a feature
[04:14] <mdz> elmo: dan jacobson can never report a bug
[04:14] <mdz> jdub: none of the above
[04:15] <jdub> mdz: what do you recommend?
[04:15] <elmo> mdz: LOL
[04:15] <mdz> jdub: hypothetical UML-based tool I've only half-written
[04:15] <elmo> jdub: for what?
[04:15] <jdub> elmo: for building and checking things locally
[04:15] <mdz> pbuilder is scary crack and sbuild isn't particularly well suited for non-buildd use
[04:15] <elmo> sbuild is machosistic, unless the package is vastly improved
[04:16] <elmo> pbuilder's always struct me as particularly bad crack, but I don't have much experience to back that up
[04:16] <jdub> i basically want something so i can build shit against buildd-cletn unstable or warty whenever
[04:16] <azeem> elmo: of course it's vastly improved, I'm co-maintainer now
[04:16] <azeem> didn't do anything yet, though
[04:17] <elmo> heh
[04:17] <elmo> personally, I just use a chroot by hand, but I'm 0ld sk00l that way
[04:19] <azeem> how do you uninstall the Build-Deps afterwards?
[04:20] <elmo> *cough*, I cut'n'waste the "the following packages will be installed" output from apt-get to a file, and then apt-get --purge remove $(cat to_remove) afterwards
[04:20] <jdub> haha
[04:20] <jdub> that's not old skool
[04:20] <jdub> that's no skool
[04:24] <elmo> hey, I wrote the precursor to 'sbuild' in a hideously eccentric little shell called 'es' (-> 'esbuild') - I get to be a freak about how I build packages in a chroot
[04:30] <elmo> jdub: module.h:26:18: ltdl.h: No such file or directory
[04:30] <elmo> missing b-d on libltd3-dev or whatever it is, I guess
[04:31] <jdub> yeah, now they're out of new i can upload the fixed one :)
[04:32] <mdz> I just throw the chroot away afterward
[04:40] <elmo> hmm, no hoary/supported seed yet?
[04:41] <mdz> hoary should be sharing warty's seeds for now
[04:42] <elmo> yeah, I mean for proposals
[04:42] <elmo> as I assume it's too late to propose things for warty :)
[04:43] <jdub> 8)
[04:43] <elmo> mdz/jdub: btw, do you have a timescale when you want hoary, if it's not ASAP?
[04:44] <mdz> elmo: to be honest, I don't see the point until we have hct
[04:44] <mdz> elmo: I don't think it's too late to propose stuff for supported if it's trivial
[04:45] <elmo> mm.. Mark indicated to me that hct was a way away, e.g. he said we'd be accepting community uploads before hct was ready, and I think that included hoary
[04:45] <mdz> I spoke to him about it today; there seem to be differing visions for hoary
[04:45] <elmo> giggle.. neat!
[04:45] <mdz> jdub: what's yours? (the one you've announced on ubuntu-users@ with ETAs and stuff)
[04:46] <mdz> there are 1009 source packages in warty main
[04:46] <mdz> we've modified 308 of them
[04:47] <mdz> clobbering those changes with packages from unstable would produce an, err, undesirable result
[04:48] <mdz> elmo: would it be possible to rig something up to let unmodified packages flow in from sid, while not clobbering modified ones?
[04:48] <elmo> well, I can easily enough not sync if there's an 'unbutu' marker in the version number in warty
[04:48] <daniels> pittping
[04:48] <mdz> then we could work through those by hand
[04:48] <daniels> ugh
[04:48] <elmo> daniels: dude, your keyboard handling skills suck tonight
[04:48] <mdz> pitti's asleep
[04:48] <elmo> it's like 5am in Germany :)
[04:48] <elmo> hmm, and 4 am here.. sleep might be a plan soon
[04:49] <daniels> elmo: wow, way to make your point, dude :P
[04:49] <elmo> mdz: sure, no prob.. anyway, given the differing visions, shall I mail you, jeff, mark?
[04:49] <elmo> (think jeff's crashed now)
[04:49] <elmo> daniels: ?
[04:49] <mdz> oh, I thought he was still here
[04:50] <daniels> elmo: the 5am thing
[04:50] <mdz> it's like noon in jdub-land, isn't it?
[04:50] <daniels> wtf??
[04:50] <daniels> To: apache@packages.debian.org                                                                                          
[04:50] <daniels> Subject: Andy Rourke (Smiths Bass Player) replaces Mani (Primal Scream)                                                 
[04:50] <daniels> and, sure enough, it's about andy rourke replacing mani
[04:51] <elmo> * jdub feels morbid, migrates to pillowful working area
[04:51] <jdub> mdz: mmm, thogh feeling uwjwell
[04:51] <daniels> mdz: 1251
[04:51] <mdz> jdub: ah
[04:51] <daniels> mdz: so, just to make sure I'm not entirely on crack
[04:51] <daniels> mdz: ppp_on-boot_dsl is going into pppoeconf with a different name, no?
[04:51] <daniels> ppp_on_boot.dsl, even
[04:51] <mdz> daniels: s/pppoeconf/ppp/
[04:51] <daniels> mdz: glad I asked
[04:52] <mdz> I thought I said that in the bug
[04:57] <elmo> mmm.. 4am.. night all
[05:02] <daniels> elmo: night dude
[05:02] <daniels> hmm, my flatmate has discovered the maximum possible score on tony hawk 2
[05:03] <schweeb> heh, not that hard to hit, iirc ;)
[05:05] <daniels> well, maximum score for a single trick
[05:05] <daniels> which is just over the 76 million mark
[05:06] <daniels> (spiderman + perfect balance + grinding the wire above the bullring + unplugging your keyboard + leaving it all night + a note that says 'leave please! for science's sake!' == very thps2 score)
[05:06] <daniels> s/very/& high/
[05:23] <mdz> yes
[05:32] <justdave> mdz: want to change the debzilla address right now?  (bug 1328)
[05:32] <mdz> justdave: yes
[05:32] <justdave> debzilla@canonical.com?
[05:32] <mdz> justdave: debzilla@ubuntu.com
[05:32] <mdz> email prefs are already turned off
[05:33] <justdave> ok, done.
[05:33] <justdave> make sure the importer knows to log in with the new address and you're all set.
[05:33] <mdz> done here
[05:33] <mdz> I'll do a test run
[05:34] <mdz> _seems_ to work
[05:34] <mdz> but I'm not sure there was anything new that represented a good test case
[05:35] <mdz> looks good though
[05:42] <daniels> hmm
[05:43] <daniels> who here has a shinybook?
[05:58] <justdave> define shiny :)
[06:09] <daniels> shinybook -> powerbooks
[06:11] <daniels> heh
[06:12] <justdave> I have a Pismo here...
[06:12] <justdave> it's not exactly shiny
[06:12] <justdave> :)
[06:42] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:49] <lamont> night fabbione
[06:51] <fabbione> ehe
[06:51] <fabbione> night lamont 
[07:05] <daniels> night lamont, morning fabbione
[07:05] <daniels> fabbione: i think the ati powerpc bios thing is an upstream bug
[07:05] <daniels> that's the reason why I wanted more testing :)
[07:07] <fabbione> well i0t got some testing
[07:07] <fabbione> it crashed in several machines
[07:09] <fabbione> this is hoary stuff
[07:09] <fabbione> X is now uber deep freeze
[07:09] <fabbione> also.. apparently someone found a combinantion of nv + xv working
[07:09] <fabbione> but if we go for that solution we need to roll back the nv driver to the one in -6
[07:09] <fabbione> that will not work for people that needs X.org driver
[07:09] <fabbione> and the other way around
[07:09] <fabbione> get the poiny
[07:09] <fabbione> point even
[07:14] <daniels> yeah, there's no way we can do r4xx stuff for warty now
[07:14] <daniels> but if the bios detection is arse upstream on powerpc, i want to know that now :)
[07:14] <daniels> yeah
[07:15] <daniels> i think having the support xorg gives us is more importand than xv, though
[07:15] <daniels> remember, it's not terribly long until we'll have xorg
[07:15] <daniels> which reminds me -- early or late november for the sprint?
[07:16] <daniels> i think early is good, so we can get it done as quickly as possible
[07:18] <fabbione> daniels: fine for me
[07:18] <fabbione> did you mail Mark?
[07:19] <daniels> not yet, but i'll do that now
[07:22] <fabbione> also because there is just a month or so left
[07:22] <fabbione> so it's better to get organized
[07:24] <fabbione> anyway Mark also said that we shouldn't spend too much time on X anymore since it is "stable"
[07:24] <fabbione> and focus on all the other bugs
[07:24] <pitti> Morning guys!
[07:24] <fabbione> hey pitti
[07:26] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, I'm trying to get off X
[07:26] <daniels> fabbione: working on Gimp now, for example
[07:27] <fabbione> <- raidtools2
[07:34] <pitti> fabbione: BTW, X on my iBook works again. Thanks for fixing the ati driver
[07:35] <fabbione> pitti: no problem and thanks for reporting :-)
[07:37] <pitti> npmccallum: here?
[11:08] <fabbione> jdub, mdz: ping
[11:09] <fabbione> http://people.no-name-yet.com/~fabbione/raid_changelog
[11:09] <fabbione> http://people.no-name-yet.com/patches/raidtools2.272864.dpatch
[11:09] <fabbione> permission to upload raidtools2 to fix #1603
[11:09] <fabbione> diff and changelog at the above url
[11:11] <fabbione> tested with all possible raids
[11:11] <fabbione> there are no regressions here
[11:18] <pitti> Hi seb128!
[11:18] <seb128> hello
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: the new gnome-vfs broke hotplug device handling :-)
[11:18] <seb128> pitti: og
[11:18] <seb128> oh
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: #1599, but I'm just fixing it
[11:19] <seb128> I've seen your mail to ettore, this guy works on gnome-vfs ?
[11:19] <pitti> seb128: I copied this from debian/copyright
[11:19] <pitti> seb128: I hope so :-)
[11:19] <rburton> ettore?
[11:19] <pitti> seb128: is there a mailing list or so for stuff like this?
[11:20] <seb128> rburton: To: Ettore Perazzoli <ettore@ximian.com> 
[11:20] <pitti> seb128: no, not from copyright, from AUTHORS
[11:20] <seb128> rburton: is there several ettore ?
[11:21] <seb128> pitti: I'll ping alex or teuf about this
[11:21] <rburton> that is the late ettore
[11:21] <seb128> :(
[11:21] <seb128> as said 2 lines ago, was not sure
[11:21] <pitti> seb128: ugh, does that really mean he is dead?
[11:22] <seb128> pitti: yes
[11:22] <pitti> uh
[11:22] <rburton> died 12th december 2003 :(
[11:22] <pitti> seb128: any other idea where to forward patches then?
[11:23] <seb128> rburton: I didn't remember his last name, so I was not sure it was him
[11:23] <pitti> indeed, the mail bounced
[11:24] <seb128> pitti: as said before, I'll ping teuf or alex
[11:24] <pitti> ah, ok
[11:24] <pitti> thanks
[11:24] <seb128> but better if you can open a bug report about this against gnome-vfs
[11:24] <pitti> in their bugzilla?
[11:25] <seb128> yes
[11:26] <seb128> do you have an account on bugzilla.gnome.org ?
[11:26] <pitti> seb128: no, but I found the bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=148186
[11:27] <pitti> seb128: I just created one
[11:27] <seb128> ok
[11:27] <seb128> pitti: I'll probably update dbus/hal to new versions today
[11:28] <seb128> FYI
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: UGH! hal 0.2.98?
[11:29] <seb128> yes
[11:29] <pitti> seb128: 0.2.87 had _severe_ regressions
[11:29] <pitti> I hope that they are fixed in 0.2.98
[11:29] <seb128> 87 ?
[11:29] <seb128> could you check ?
[11:30] <pitti> no, 97 of course
[11:30] <seb128> we need 98 to get the lock device stuff working
[11:30] <seb128> nautilus-cd-burner 2.8.3 requires it
[11:30] <pitti> can't we backport jsut this change to 0.2.92?
[11:30] <seb128> 2.8.3:
[11:30] <seb128> Lock drive while burning when using HAL
[11:30] <pitti> seb128: ah, does it finally lock the drive?
[11:30] <seb128> yes
[11:30] <pitti> does it unmount the drive before locking?
[11:31] <pitti> should pumount -l /dev/foo
[11:32] <seb128> do you have time to make the tests ?
[11:32] <seb128> I've around 90 bugs assigned in my list ...
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: if you don't mind, can I do the hal upgrade myself?
[11:33] <seb128> oh yes please
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: or do you want to change anything specific?
[11:33] <pitti> okay, then I will do that.
[11:33] <seb128> BTW sjoerd (the debian maintainer) has packages almost ready
[11:33] <rburton> hm, no multisync in ubuntu
[11:33] <pitti> I just have two major bugs left
[11:34] <seb128> pitti: apparently we need to update dbus and g-v-m too
[11:34] <pitti> hell, we are frozen...
[11:35] <seb128> I know
[11:35] <seb128> but do you have any other idea to get the device locking ?
[11:35] <pitti> yes, I have
[11:36] <pitti> I have a new pmount version ready which implements per-pid locking
[11:36] <pitti> this is even robust against crashes of nautilus-cd-burner, i. e. if a program crashes that locked a device
[11:37] <pitti> so n-c-b just had to pmount --lock the device at start, and then pmount --unlock it when it finished
[11:37] <pitti> I already proposed that in #1234
[11:38] <seb128> ok, feel free to do whatever you want on this plan :)
[11:38] <pitti> mdz seemed hesitant to accept a new pmount version
[11:38] <pitti> that's probably why he assigned the bug to you
[11:38] <seb128> I've a ton of bugs and no really time to work on this
[11:39] <seb128> I've just read about the lock stuff in nautilus-cd-burner yesterday but it requires the new hal
[11:40] <pitti> I tried to read the hal diff yesterday, but there are tons of new code
[11:40] <pitti> can you please write a short summary of the required changes to #1234?
[11:40] <pitti> then mdz should decide whether to go with new upstream or with new pmount
[11:41] <pitti> IMHO the new pmount has less changes and is more robust
[11:41] <pitti> OTOH it changes root code
[11:41] <pitti> In any case I can care about this, either hal/ncb/gvm or pmount
[11:41] <pitti> seb128: ^
[11:42] <seb128> ok, cool
[11:43] <seb128> hey sjoerd :)
[11:43] <sjoerd> morning
[11:43] <seb128> pitti was saying that's a lot of new code in hal and he's not comfortable with an update
[11:44] <pitti> seb128: well, I can prepare a new hal package and test it locally
[11:44] <pitti> seb128: but I got bad results with 0.2.97, that's why I would like to test this very thoroughly
[11:45] <sjoerd> as i told seb128, you need to patch the dbus python bindings a little for 0.2.98 
[11:45] <sjoerd> pitti: bad results with respect to hotplugging stuff ?
[11:45] <pitti> sjoerd: yes, some of my devices were not recognized at all any more
[11:45] <sjoerd> that's why i did 0.2.97+cvs20040907 in debian
[11:46] <sjoerd> fixed the problems for everyone who reported them
[11:48] <sjoerd> i've got hal 0.2.98 packages for debian almost ready, but dbus needs to be fixed first 
[11:49] <pitti> sjoerd,seb128: AFAIK the locking patch was pretty small; we might be better off to just backport it to 0.2.92?
[11:49] <fabbione> Mithrandir: mind to check raidtool2 changelog from sid? there is something related to amd64 that might be important
[11:50] <seb128> pitti: I've not looked on hal internals enough to have an opinion on this, sorry
[11:50] <fabbione> Mithrandir: between -12 and -13
[11:50] <pitti> seb128: np, was just meant as CC FYI
[11:50] <seb128> ok :)
[11:51] <pitti> I have to log out and back in to test fixed gnome-vfs. BRB
[11:51] <Mithrandir> fabbione: 266856?
[11:51] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes
[11:51] <fabbione> Mithrandir: since i am keeping a lock on raidtools2 i am still in time to add it
[11:52] <Mithrandir> fabbione: I don't have my ubuntu system powered up atm, but the patch looks sane to me
[11:53] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ok
[11:53] <fabbione> i will talk with mdz or jdub when they are around
[11:54] <pitti> damn, new gvfs still not working
[11:54] <sjoerd> pitti: if you only need the locking code for hal, then backporting it is the least intrusive way ofcourse
[11:55] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it's one liner.. i will just include it
[11:55] <Mithrandir> fabbione: coolie
[11:55] <seb128> pitti: if you can backport the lock part perhaps it's the best solution ?
[11:56] <pitti> seb128: the hal part should be relatively easy; but we also need a new gvm?
[11:57] <seb128> sjoerd: ? :)
[11:57] <sjoerd> if you go to 0.2.98 you need a new g-v-m yes
[11:57] <seb128> no
[11:57] <seb128> we want to backport the lock changes to 0.2.92
[11:57] <sjoerd> hmm for the locking too i guys, if you don't want it mounting stuff
[11:58] <sjoerd> there is support for thet in the development branch of gvm
[11:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: i placed the source on people/~fabbione
[11:59] <fabbione> Mithrandir: can you just build it?
[12:00] <Mithrandir> fabbione: my amd64 ubuntu system is at home, powered down atm.
[12:00] <Mithrandir> I need to get rid of a disk so I can sleep with it powered on.
[12:00] <thom> fabbione: i can built it
[12:01] <thom> but i have no way to test it
[12:04] <fabbione> thom: the test has been done.. i only want to be sure that is not a FTBFS
[12:05] <thom> then sure
[12:05] <fabbione> Mithrandir: ehehe don't worry :-)
[12:05] <fabbione> Mithrandir: we still have THOMBOT!
[12:05] <Mithrandir> fabbione :)
[12:06] <thom> builds for me
[12:07] <fabbione> danke
[12:07] <thom> bitte
[12:10] <fabbione> thom: can you ping your friend for #1218 ?
[12:12] <thom> have pinged, will ask colleagues to badger him
[12:12] <fabbione> thanks
[12:15] <fabbione> ok patch for raidtools2 is already accepted by the DD.
[12:15] <fabbione> that's good
[12:15] <fabbione> he was fast and happy
[12:22] <jdub> fabbione: pong
[12:23] <fabbione> jdub: read mail about raidtools2
[12:23] <fabbione> jdub: patch has been already accepted by the DD
[12:24] <fabbione> jdub: it also includes an AMD64 fix
[12:24] <fabbione> see the changelog
[12:24] <fabbione> it's a one line change
[12:44] <sivang> g'afternoon people
[12:45] <rburton> thom: so if i echo mem to /sys/power/state, it suspends and immediatly results on a tosh laptop. any ideas?
[12:46] <sivang> hi pitti
[12:46] <thom> s/results/restarts i assume?
[12:47] <rburton> yes :)
[12:48] <rburton> dmesg shows e100 suspending and immediately being told to wake up again
[12:54] <rburton> thom: are you lead man on ACPI issues?  should i get dan to file a bug re: suspend
[12:54] <Mithrandir> rburton: unload the USB modules
[12:54] <rburton> trying
[12:59] <thom> but yeah, please file a bug, assign it to herbert, cc me
[12:59] <rburton> ok, removed ehci_hcd and uhci_hcd, leaving usbcore loaded, it resumed but when it resumed it had video corruption for a bit, and then shutdown
[12:59] <rburton> gracefully which was odd :)
[12:59] <Mithrandir> rburton: yes, it's the power button even which gets caught by /etc/acpi/powerbtn.sh
[12:59] <Mithrandir> so it thinks you wants to turn it off
[01:00] <Mithrandir> I miss a command similar to the old apm -s
[01:01] <rburton> justdave: ping?
[01:02] <justdave> rburton: pong
[01:02] <rburton> justdave: i'm so in awe of the icalendar queries on the ubuntu bugzilla that i'm upgrading our own one.  2.18rc2 appears to have broken icalendar export -- so is cvs head safe?
[01:03] <pitti> sivang: Hi! Just had lunch
[01:03] <justdave> if it works on bugzilla.ubuntu.com, it'll work on cvs head
[01:04] <thom> justdave: any joy with the "assign to me and mark assigned" button?
[01:04] <justdave> if it's broke in rc2 I'd consider that an rc bug for 2.18
[01:04] <rburton> justdave: i'll check it again to make sure i'm not mad
[01:06] <thom> rock. find in firefox is actually totally hozed
[01:06] <justdave> hmm, works for me on landfill
[01:06] <thom> bbiaf
[01:06] <azeem> bbiaf? be back in a fortnight?
[01:06] <rburton> justdave: right, confirmed. icalendar contains just BEGIN and END
[01:07] <thom> "few"
[01:07] <rburton> few.... months?
[01:07] <rburton> nanoseconds?
[01:07] <thom> hours, probably, given that i need to build a clean firefox on my crazy debian crack of doom partition
[01:07] <rburton> justdave: i'll be brave and go to the tip of 2.18
[01:07] <justdave> rburton: http://landfill.bugzilla.org/bugzilla-2.18-branch/
[01:08] <justdave> that's tip of the branch, what'll be rc3 in a day or two
[01:08] <rburton> cool
[01:08] <rburton> grrr at bugzilla and permissions
[01:09] <rburton> justdave: what is the recommended user/group for bugzilla. atm its owned by me with group www-data but that is a pita as i have to su to run checkconfig
[01:10] <justdave> thom: yeah, will hopefully have that in the next update (which is happening today sometime - been fighting with it for the last day and a half)
[01:10] <thom> justdave: rock, cool
[01:10] <justdave> rburton: root:www-data :)
[01:11] <justdave> if you're the only person on the box, you can set webservergroup to an empty string and it'll loosen up permissions a bit
[01:12] <justdave> but that makes the data directory world-writeable, so that's not advisable if there's people besides you with access to the box
[01:12] <rburton> yeah, everyone
[01:12] <rburton> its the file server as well as web
[01:12] <justdave> you could also add yourself to the www-data group
[01:12] <justdave> which would let checksetup.pl do the chgrp without complaining
[01:12] <rburton> yes, i was going to do that
[01:13] <rburton> hm, still doesnt' work with tip
[01:13] <rburton> how annoying
[01:13] <justdave> wonder if there's something it doesn't like in your data...
[01:14] <rburton> all the bugs have padlocks next to them
[01:14] <rburton> would the group permissions break it?
[01:14] <justdave> are you downloading the ics file or subscribing to it?
[01:14] <rburton> aaaha if i download in ephy it works
[01:14] <rburton> wget doesn't
[01:15] <rburton> subscribing also doesn't
[01:15] <rburton> which is why
[01:15] <rburton> *darn*
[01:15] <justdave> yeah, you need your login cookie since the bugs are secured
[01:15] <justdave> (or pass the user and pass with the url parameters)
[01:18] <rburton> &user=foo&pass=bar?
[01:19] <rburton> or in the url server bit?
[01:28] <justdave> &Bugzilla_login=username&Bugzilla_password=password
[01:29] <Mithrandir> evo doesn't do https ical urls, though
[01:30] <azeem> you need evolution-webcal for that, AFAIK
[01:30] <azeem> oh https
[01:32] <Mithrandir> there's not a webcals protocol, it seems
[01:52] <rburton> justdave: rock on, thanks
[02:28] <rburton> is the daily install cd okay today?
[02:41] <seb128> jdub, mdz: approval needed for #1285
[02:48] <npmccallum> seb128: I don't remember when we talked, did you say that you were going to turn on esd by default (for ubuntu-sounds)?
[02:49] <seb128> hum
[02:49] <seb128> we said it should be turned on yes
[02:49] <seb128> but I didn't say I was going to do it :)
[02:50] <npmccallum> ok
[02:51] <npmccallum> Should we wait until #1481 is fix until we do that?
[02:52] <seb128> probably yes
[02:52] <seb128> ping jdub about that
[02:53] <npmccallum> I'll file a bug that depends on #1481
[02:53] <npmccallum> what package is the esd option in? g-c-c?
[03:01] <seb128> npmccallum: which option ?
[03:02] <pitti> T-Bone: Doesn't it ask if the connection cannot be established?
[03:02] <pitti> T-Bone: Sarge's d-i asks for a proxy IIRC
[03:03] <T-Bone> pitti: it stalls eternally, so i'm not waiting. Double ctrl-C gets to the package installation directly
[03:03] <T-Bone> pitti: correct, sarge asks
[03:03] <pitti> T-Bone: can you please file a bug?
[03:03] <pitti> T-Bone: describing some details?
[03:03] <T-Bone> pitti: sure, ASA i'll familiarize with ubuntu BTS ;)
[03:04] <npmccallum> seb128: to turn on esound and play sounds at events
[03:04] <pitti> T-Bone: it's not difficult, you just have to create an account
[03:04] <pitti> brb
[03:05] <T-Bone> already reported #1160
[03:06] <seb128> npmccallum: esound is on by default, isn't it ?
[03:06] <T-Bone> pitti: already reported as #1160
[03:07] <T-Bone> btw, another question, probably a FAQ: what's the point of copying all packages to the local HD. Is warthy designed not to be installable under a certain amount of diskspace?
[03:07] <pitti> T-Bone: thanks
[03:10] <seb128> npmccallum: BTW the sound events option are in libgnome2-common's schema
[03:11] <T-Bone> btw, is Mark Shuttleworth around?
[03:17] <thom> T-Bone: he's on #ubuntu, nick of sabdfl
[03:17] <T-Bone> thom: thx
[03:18] <thom> np
[03:20] <rburton> thom: for the last six months i've wanted your t630, but not i've got a k700i so i'm happy again :)
[03:20] <rburton> much better than the t68i :)
[03:21] <thom> now you just need a decent laptop... ;-)
[03:21] <rburton> yep
[03:21] <rburton> then i can be MiniThom
[03:21] <rburton> and follow you around
[03:27] <seb128> jdub: #1285 please :)
[03:27] <seb128> updating esound
[03:27] <seb128> arg
[03:28] <jdub> :-)
[03:28] <seb128> ryan's packages are a pain
[03:29] <seb128> he has almost forked them with all the changes in the diff.gz
[03:29] <jdub> seb128: libxml is part of gnome ;)
[03:29] <seb128> and he's the only one to know what's in there
[03:29] <azeem> T-Bone: running apt-setup by hand also lets you do this, IIRC
[03:29] <jdub> morning azeem
[03:29] <seb128> jdub: if that ok to update esound to current upstream and drop all debian changes ?
[03:29] <azeem> hey Jeff
[03:29] <seb128> hey azeem, thanks for the patch
[03:29] <jdub> seb128: hmm
[03:29] <azeem> cheers
[03:30] <T-Bone> azeem: oh; i'll try ;) Old debian habits are poising me ;)
[03:30] <jdub> seb128: can you check the src.rpm in fedora for any patches?
[03:30] <jdub> seb128: there might be some common ground for amd64 fixes and things like that
[03:30] <seb128> jdub: ok
[03:30] <azeem> T-Bone: it's just that I find it hard to remember the syntax needed for apt.conf
[03:30] <jdub> just in case we miss anything ;)
[03:30] <seb128> ok :)
[03:30] <azeem> the whole proxy thing sucks in Debian/Ubuntu currently, IMHO
[03:31] <azeem> worest of all is synaptic, which neither uses GNOME's nor APT's proxy setup but insists in having its own
[03:31] <T-Bone> azeem: lol, i'm getting used to it :)
[03:32] <T-Bone> -e
[03:32] <rburton> T-Bone: you uncommented the universe lines without commenting the lines at the top of the file
[03:32] <rburton> they both download main and restricted
[03:33] <T-Bone> rburton: bingo! thx
[03:33] <seb128> pitti: 09_pmount.patch + 10_fix_eject.patch break the trash with gnome-vfs 2.8.1...
[03:33] <pitti> seb128: gnome-vfs 2.8.1 breaks hotplug devices :-)
[03:34] <pitti> I found a partial fix no
[03:34] <pitti> now
[03:34] <seb128> have you opened a bug report ?
[03:34] <pitti> what breaks with the trash?
[03:34] <seb128> try to open the trash
[03:34] <seb128> always empty
[03:34] <seb128> always 0 items
[03:34] <pitti> seb128: #1599 for the hotplug stuff
[03:34] <seb128> it's ok if I rebuild gnome-vfs without these 2 patches
[03:34] <pitti> seb128: my trash is full
[03:34] <seb128> pitti: I was thinking to a gnome one so I can point to some upstream
[03:34] <pitti> I empty it
[03:35] <seb128> pitti: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1636
[03:35] <pitti> seb128: trash works for me???
[03:35] <seb128> I've exactly the same problem here
[03:36] <seb128> and no pb with gnome-vfs 2.8.0 or 2.8.1 without the 2 patches
[03:36] <seb128> pitti: the trashapplet works, the trash in nautilus is broken
[03:37] <pitti> seb128: works for me, too...
[03:37] <pitti> that's odd
[03:37] <seb128> perhaps your changes for the hotplug ?
[03:37] <rburton> fabbione: does X add a synaptics driver to XF86Config if it knows one is there, or if its on a laptop?
[03:37] <fabbione> the latter
[03:37] <pitti> seb128: now I have a slightly updated version
[03:37] <rburton> ok
[03:38] <fabbione> rburton: afaik there is no way to detect that there is a synaptics whatever it is
[03:38] <pitti> seb128: now it shows me mounted USB devices on desktop (not yet in the computer place)
[03:38] <seb128> pitti: try with the current gnome-vfs package
[03:38] <pitti> seb128: as soon as I fixed this, I will downgrade to the older version and try to reproduce 
[03:38] <seb128> and killall nautilus before trying :)
[03:38] <seb128> ok thanks
[03:51] <pitti> seb128: I don't think that the eject fix is the cause
[03:51] <seb128> me neither
[03:52] <pitti> seb128: but 09_pmount does not do anything trash related neither...
[03:52] <seb128> I know ...
[03:52] <seb128> but I've build 10 version of the package 
[03:52] <seb128> removing these 2 fixes the issue
[03:52] <pitti> seb128: but this whole issue is odd anyway. Nothing in the 880 code relevant lines in the 2.8.1 patch seems to break hotplug devices
[03:52] <pitti> seb128: I had to fix that in a totally different spot
[03:53] <seb128> how ?
[03:53] <pitti> gnome-vfs2-2.8.1/libgnomevfs/gnome-vfs-volume-monitor-daemon.c
[03:54] <seb128> ok
[03:54] <pitti> seb128: create_vol_from_mount decides whether the volume appears on desktop
[03:55] <pitti> but it sets is_user_visible to 0 for all but some special drive types
[03:55] <pitti> seb128: oddly enough this code hasn't changed from 2.8.0, but I guess it is indirectly called differently
[03:56] <seb128> what has changed in create_vol_from_mount behaviour between 2.8.0 and 2.8.1 ?
[03:56] <pitti> seb128: nothing, that's the funny part
[03:56] <seb128> weird
[03:56] <seb128> same for the trash
[03:56] <pitti> seb128: as I said, I read the whole diff from 2.8.0 to 2.8.1
[03:56] <seb128> that's broken but nothing changed
[03:56] <pitti> seb128: voodoo
[03:57] <seb128> one of the patches is perhaps doing bad stuff
[03:57] <pitti> seb128: can we blame Bill Gates for that?
[03:57] <seb128> pitti: why not :)
[03:58] <pitti> seb128: do you know a possibility to test a new gnome-vfs without logging out/in?
[03:58] <pitti> seb128: I already tried to run the daemon manually, but that does not work
[03:58] <seb128> perhaps teuf knows ?
[03:58] <seb128> teuf: here ? :)
[03:59] <pitti> seb128: I'm back in a minute
[03:59] <teuf> seb128: depends on what exactly pitti is trying to achieve
[04:00] <seb128> he's working with volumes/devices
[04:00] <seb128> what's showed on the desktop with nautilus
[04:00] <teuf> yeah, but I don't get why h e needs to log out/log in
[04:00] <teuf> gnome-session-remove nautilus should be enough to kill the vfs-daemon I think
[04:00] <seb128> probably to restart the volume-monitor ?
[04:00] <teuf> ok
[04:00] <teuf> so
[04:00] <teuf> pitti: why do you need to log out/log in to test vfs changes ?
[04:01] <pitti> teuf: I tried to kill the daemon and to start it with the same options, doesn't work
[04:02] <pitti> seb128: my trash works like charm here :-)
[04:02] <teuf> pitti: killall gnome-vfs-daemon && killall nautilus isn't enough ?
[04:02] <pitti> seb128: I will try it now with the old version in Warty
[04:02] <seb128> ok, thanks
[04:02] <pitti> teuf: oh, will that restart everything?
[04:02] <teuf> pitti: depends what you call "everything" ;)
[04:02] <teuf> it's probably more than enough to test vfs changes
[04:03] <pitti> teuf: cool, thanks!
[04:03] <pitti> you just improved my efficiency trememdously :-)
[04:14] <pitti> seb128: grumpf, the volume icons only appear _either_ on the desktop _or_ in the Computer place
[04:14] <pitti> seb128: with the current gconf default, they appear only at the desktop
[04:15] <pitti> seb128: do you think they should appear in both places?
[04:20] <sivang> is it possible to make them appear on both places?
[04:22] <seb128> pitti: the icon should always been in the computer place yes
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: this must be somewhere in nautilus
[04:22] <seb128> what ?
[04:22] <pitti> seb128: I'm trying to find it
[04:23] <seb128> hum
[04:24] <seb128> that's the upstream behaviour, keep it for the moment perhaps and check with jdub
[04:24] <jdub> um
[04:24] <jdub> hrm?
[04:24] <jdub> i thought they appeared in both
[04:28] <pitti> jdub: the current behaviour is quite odd
[04:29] <pitti> jdub: I just fixed gnome-vfs to actually report USB sticks and the like as "user visible" to fix #1599
[04:29] <pitti> jdub,seb128: now if I plug in my stick, it appears at the desktop, not in the Computer place
[04:29] <pitti> jdub,seb128: however, if I switch off the "icon on desktop" gconf setting, it appears only in the Computer place
[04:29] <jdub> weird
[04:30] <seb128> same
[04:30] <pitti> jdub,seb128: but in this case the sda1 icon appears as "not mounted" (!!!)
[04:30] <pitti> jdub,seb128: I can click on sda1 and it complains that sda1 is already mounted
[04:30] <pitti> jdub,seb128: if the Icon is on desktop, it behaves sanely
[04:30] <seb128> if it detects it as not mounted that's normal
[04:30] <jdub> heh
[04:31] <pitti> seb128: why is that normal? a week ago I could click on sda1 in the computer window and the content opened
[04:31] <pitti> seb128: and I could unmount it there
[04:31] <seb128> "if it detects it as not mounted"
[04:31] <pitti> seb128: ah, but it is mounted
[04:32] <seb128> I know
[04:32] <seb128> the detection is wrong
[04:32] <seb128> but the behaviour is right according to the detection
[04:32] <seb128> pitti: BTW 2.8.1 fixes some important issues, reverting is not good
[04:32] <pitti> I'm already working 6.5 hours on this stuff; it's just plain weird
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: BTW, I could reproduce the trash bug
[04:33] <thom> that's three days of firefox. rapture
[04:34] <thom> hey oh fearless laptop leader
[04:34] <pitti> seb128: funnily enough it seems to work again with my updated gvfs
[04:48] <seb128> pitti: nice :)
[04:48] <pitti> seb128: however, inexplicable
[04:49] <pitti> seb128: my patches were agains gvfs, but the trash thingy should be nautilus, don't?
[04:49] <seb128> the graphical part
[04:49] <seb128> the monitor is gnomevfs stuff
[04:50] <seb128> and as said before is works fine with 2.8.0 package and not 2.8.1 without changing nautilus
[04:50] <seb128> so I really think the problem is in gnomevfs
[04:59] <mxpxpod> do you guys need a *mm library maintainer?
[05:01] <seb128> fabbione: here ?
[05:01] <seb128> mxpxpod: would be nice :)
[05:01] <sladen> can somebody with cpu_scaling working on their PowerBook send me the output of    grep '^model name' $CPUINFO | head -1 | sed -e 's/^.*: //;   and tell me which module(s) they had to load
[05:02] <mxpxpod> seb128: I'd be willing to learn exactly how to do it and help maintain
[05:02] <seb128> cool
[05:02] <sladen> s.$CPUINFO./proc/cpuinfo.
[05:03] <mxpxpod> seb128: just let me know what to read and if I need to register somewhere or something... but that way we can keep on top of *mm stuff
[05:03] <seb128> jdub: here ?
[05:03] <seb128> mxpxpod: what to read for what ? Doing a debian package ? 
[05:03] <jdub> seb128: mmm?
[05:04] <seb128> jdub: read 2 lines ago
[05:04] <jdub> mxpxpod: you've looked at the *mm sources in universe?
[05:04] <jdub> mxpxpod: are they not building, or...?
[05:04] <seb128> jdub: mxpxpod would like to help to maintain the *mm
[05:05] <jdub> seb128: yep, worked it out now ;)
[05:05] <mxpxpod> mxpxpod: no, not really, but I can do that
[05:05] <mxpxpod> crap, that was to jdub
[05:07] <mxpxpod> oh, nice... gtkmm-2.4.5 hasn't been compiled for ppc... but the source is in universe
[05:07] <jdub> ok
[05:07] <jdub> so
[05:07] <jdub> grab the sources
[05:07] <mxpxpod> jdub: got em
[05:07] <jdub> see if they build on your box
[05:08] <jdub> fixing that stuff will go straight into universe for everyone else :)
[05:08] <mxpxpod> jdub: is there a specified way that is more acceptible to build with? or is apt-get source -b libgtkmm-2.4-1
[05:08] <jdub> if you want updated packages
[05:08] <jdub> mxpxpod: apt-get source <package>
[05:08] <jdub> cd <directory>
[05:08] <jdub> dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us -rfakeroot
[05:08] <jdub> probably worth hanging out here to ask about the ins and outs of how this all works
[05:09] <mxpxpod> jdub: you don't care that it's not signed?
[05:09] <jdub> but i strongly recommend reading the developer docs on debian.org
[05:09] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok
[05:09] <seb128> http://www.debian.org/devel
[05:09] <jdub> if you're building it for yourself, you don't need it signed
[05:09] <jdub> you're testing ;)
[05:09] <mxpxpod> jdub: good point :)
[05:09] <jdub> but, if you've fixed stuff up
[05:09] <sivang> jdub : you a know a good way to have nautilus-cd-burner not finalize a cd?
[05:09] <jdub> do your build like this:
[05:10] <jdub> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot -uc -us
[05:10] <jdub> that'll do a source build only
[05:10] <sivang> jdub : this seems to be ellusive on the gui
[05:10] <jdub> which can be checked, signed and uploaded to universe
[05:10] <mxpxpod> jdub: ah, ok
[05:10] <jdub> sivang: i don't think it can
[05:10] <mxpxpod> jdub: oh, I know where the 2.4.5 stuff came from... it came from debian's source stuff
[05:11] <seb128> yes
[05:11] <sivang> jdub : darn
[05:11] <jdub> mxpxpod: universe is debian main, frozen a few months back
[05:11] <seb128> mxpxpod: most of the packaged are from the debian archive
[05:11] <jdub> mxpxpod: if you want newer packages, we can sync things from sid
[05:11] <mxpxpod> jdub: ah, ok
[05:11] <mxpxpod> jdub: well, I have a deb-src line that grab's sid's current sources
[05:12] <jdub> mxpxpod: if they build on warty (or you have patches), that is ;)
[05:12] <seb128> I *hate* changes in the diff.gz
[05:12] <sivang> jdub : there a list of packages that needs security sync from sid, would you like me to mail you?
[05:12] <jdub> mxpxpod: hrm, unless you definitely know you want to use those, try working with the existing versions in universe as much as possible
[05:12] <jdub> sivang: no, that's mdz's gig :)
[05:12] <sivang> jdub : k ;-)
[05:13] <mxpxpod> jdub: well, universe has 2.4.2, and it would be nice to have 2.4.5 since it's got a couple of fixes in
[05:13] <lamont> mdz/jdub about?
[05:13] <jdub> lamont: i am
[05:13] <jdub> mxpxpod: ok
[05:13] <lamont> I, um, have a proposed fix for #1577
[05:13] <lamont> ..
[05:13] <jdub> mxpxpod: for this release, we're not worrying too much about freezeness in universe :)
[05:13] <jdub> mxpxpod: in later releases, it'll freeze just like everything else
[05:13] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok, cool
[05:13] <mxpxpod> jdub: gotcha
[05:14] <lamont> (A) shipping an RC is really, really, ugly.  (B) 9.2.4 just released, (C) upstream is good about not releasing until they've fixed things. (D) it's been verified to fix #1577.
[05:14] <lamont> jdub: can we sync it from debian? please, please, please, please
[05:14] <mxpxpod> jdub: the reason I'm worried about *mm stuff is that I think I'm going to make a release of coaster in the next few weeks, and I want people to be able to use it
[05:14] <jdub> mxpxpod: rad
[05:14] <mxpxpod> jdub: :)
[05:15] <mxpxpod> jdub: so, I'll need to hack up a gnome-vfsmm2.8 package for us too
[05:15] <jdub> lamont: i'm going to defer to mdz on this one, sorry :-)
[05:15] <jdub> lamont: it has my approval if he's happy with it
[05:15] <jdub> mxpxpod: there's no debian package?
[05:15] <mxpxpod> jdub: not for 2.8... just 2.6
[05:15] <mxpxpod> jdub: I should email bradley
[05:15] <lamont> jdub: well, that's one down, anyway...
[05:15] <jdub> seb can teach you sexy ways of handling that :)
[05:16] <lamont> hrm... mdz is almost certainly still asleep
[05:16] <mxpxpod> jdub: teach me?
[05:18] <jdub> mxpxpod: packaging-fu
[05:18] <mxpxpod> lol
[05:18] <mxpxpod> ok
[05:18] <sladen> could people have a quick test of:  http://www.paul.sladen.org/ubuntu/cpufreq-detect.sh  if possible and tell me when it doesn't work
[05:18] <seb128> oh, just remember
[05:19] <mxpxpod> brb
[05:19] <seb128> jdub: what do you think about turning on the tab-groups extension in epiphany-extensions ?
[05:20] <jdub> $ ./cpufreq-detect.sh
[05:20] <jdub> speedstep-smi.o
[05:20] <jdub> seb128: dunno
[05:20] <jdub> $ sudo modprobe speedstep-smi
[05:20] <jdub> Password:
[05:20] <jdub> FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_smi (/lib/modules/2.6.8.1-2-686/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-smi.ko): No such device
[05:20] <jdub> 
[05:20] <jdub> ;-)
[05:20] <jdub> $ lsmod | grep cpu
[05:20] <jdub> cpufreq_userspace       5240  2
[05:20] <jdub> cpufreq_powersave       1728  0
[05:20] <jdub> 
[05:21] <jdub> $ lsmod | grep speed
[05:21] <jdub> speedstep_lib           4100  0
[05:21] <jdub> 
[05:21] <jdub> sladen: helpful?
[05:22] <sladen> jdub: do you already have another module setup and working?
[05:23] <jdub> yes
[05:23] <jdub> which appears to be speedstep_lib
[05:23] <sladen> jdub: groovy, what's  grep '^model name' /proc/cpuinfo ?
[05:23] <jdub> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.40GHz
[05:25] <sladen> jdub: okay, could you confirm that  modprobe -r speedstep_lib  ; modprobe speedstep  is all that you need to do?
[05:25] <sladen> er.  speedstep_lib
[05:26] <thom> um, it claims speedstep_smi for me, too. but speedstep_centrino is the one that works
[05:26] <jdub> it's working without that loaded
[05:27] <sladen> thom: what's your   grep '^model name' /proc/cpuinfo
[05:27] <thom> virelais:~# sh cpufreq-detect.sh
[05:27] <thom> speedstep-smi.o
[05:27] <thom> virelais:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep "model name"
[05:27] <thom> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1200MHz
[05:27] <thom> virelais:~# modprobe speedstep_smi
[05:27] <jdub> but i still have cpufreq_ ones in there
[05:27] <thom> FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_smi (/lib/modules/2.6.8.1-2-686/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-smi.ko): No such device
[05:28] <mxpxpod> jdub: if I compile these packages for ubuntu, do you want me to make a changelog entry?
[05:28] <sladen> thom: is that a P4-M ?
[05:29] <thom> yeah
[05:29] <jdub> mxpxpod: you have to, to change the version nubmer
[05:29] <jdub> mxpxpod: basically
[05:29] <jdub> mxpxpod: run 'dch'
[05:29] <jdub> sorry
[05:29] <jdub> 'dch -i'
[05:29] <jdub> then change the version number like this:
[05:29] <mxpxpod> jdub: before I compile?
[05:29] <jdub> 2.6.4-2 becomes 2.6.4-2ubuntu1
[05:29] <jdub> mxpxpod: yes
[05:29] <mxpxpod> jdub: ok
[05:31] <mxpxpod> jdub: oh, I had a question about dch yesterday... which environment variables do I need to set in my .bashrc?
[05:32] <jdub> hrm, probably not worth doing that
[05:32] <jdub> i have ~/bin/uch
[05:32] <jdub> which looks like:
[05:32] <jdub> #!/bin/sh
[05:32] <jdub> export DEBEMAIL=jeff.waugh@canonical.com
[05:32] <jdub> exec dch -i -D warty $@
[05:32] <jdub> 
[05:32] <mxpxpod> how does it get your name?
[05:32] <daniels> from the passwd file
[05:33] <mxpxpod> oh, rightg
[05:33] <mxpxpod> -g
[05:34] <lamont> #!/bin/sh
[05:34] <lamont> export LANG=C
[05:34] <lamont> export DEBEMAIL="lamont@mmjgroup.com"
[05:34] <lamont> export DEBFULLNAME="LaMont Jones"
[05:34] <lamont> VERS=""
[05:34] <lamont> if (( $# >= 1 )) && [ "$1" = "-i" ]  && [ -f debian/changelog ] ;then
[05:34] <lamont>   V=$(sed -n '1,1s/^.*(\(.*\)).*$/\1/p' debian/changelog)
[05:34] <mxpxpod> jdub: do I need the -D warty?
[05:34] <lamont>   if [ "$V" = "${V%ubuntu*}" ] ; then
[05:34] <lamont>         shift
[05:34] <lamont>         VERS="--newversion ${V}ubuntu1"
[05:35] <jdub> mxpxpod: yes
[05:35] <lamont>   fi
[05:35] <jdub> lamont: :-)
[05:35] <lamont> fi
[05:35] <lamont> dch -D warty $VERS "$@"
[05:35] <jdub> *nice*
[05:35] <lamont> it does require that -i be the _FIRST_ option, though...
[05:36] <lamont> the real trick is remembering to _not_ say that for debian uploads... :-)
[05:36] <mxpxpod> lamont: why not just put -I in  your exec?
[05:37] <lamont> mxpxpod: I sometimes don't want -i
[05:37] <mxpxpod> whoops, -i
[05:38] <lamont> that code basically says 'if they said -i, and it's not already an ubuntu* version, then change the -i to --newversion ..ubuntu1, otherwise just pass the -i through'
[05:38] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[05:39] <mxpxpod> now, when the editor comes up after I type ~/bin/uch -i, I just enter regular changelog entries?
[05:43] <mxpxpod> jdub: ^
[05:43] <daniels> mxpxpod: yah
[05:44] <mxpxpod> daniels: ok, it creates a changelog.dch... it doesn't merge into the changelog
[05:44] <T-Bone> lamont: ping
[05:44] <daniels> mxpxpod: it should merge into the changelog after you write and exit
[05:45] <mxpxpod> daniels: hrmm... doesn't seem to do it with gvim
[05:45] <lamont> yo
[05:47] <lamont> T-Bone: let me guess... issues building the chroot?
[05:47] <jdub> seb128: nautilus scripts don't seem to work
[05:47] <T-Bone> lamont: bingo
[05:47] <T-Bone> lamont: don't have warty.buildd
[05:47] <lamont> grab that from a warty box.
[05:47] <seb128> jdub: dpkg -l shared-mime-info ?
[05:47] <lamont> and then you need to edit it. :-(
[05:47] <T-Bone> lamont: rephrasing:
[05:47] <T-Bone> lamont: don't have warty.buildd on a warty box
[05:48] <thom> lamont: we could just get the ones off the buildds
[05:48] <lamont> apt-get update; apt-get install debootstrap
[05:48] <T-Bone> lamont: already did that
[05:48] <T-Bone> rephrasing
[05:48] <mxpxpod> grr... dch doesn't like gvim at all
[05:48] <lamont> ...
[05:48] <T-Bone> lamont: don't have warty.buildd on a warty box after installing debootstrap
[05:48] <lamont> which version?
[05:49] <T-Bone> 0.2.39ubuntu17 (freshly installed)
[05:50] <lamont> just a minute
[05:50] <thom> lamont: did that pbbuttonsd upload fix powerprefs/gtkpbbuttons?
[05:50] <lamont> thom: will check
[05:51] <thom> danke
[05:52] <lamont> t-bone: people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/warty.buildd  ubuntu18 coming soon.  sigh.
[05:52] <T-Bone> lol thx
[05:52] <seb128> jdub: "Hardware request : eagle-usb driver" <- grrrrrrrrrrr, I've mailed the devel list about this 1 one week ago and nobody care about replying :(
[05:52] <seb128> this package is not big and damn useful for some people
[05:53] <jdub> seb128: you can upload it to universe, no problem
[05:53] <seb128> jdub: universe is not good
[05:54] <lamont> T-Bone: or you could apt-get source debootstrap, and extract it from there. GAH!
[05:54] <seb128> jdub: we want it on the CD, or people can't have a net access and download the package
[05:54] <T-Bone> lamont: to recap, i'm debootstraping on a sarge ia64 box, using warty.buildd. Are the special options you gave me still valid?
[05:55] <jdub> seb128: where is it at the moment? only in debian?
[05:55] <seb128> yes
[05:55] <seb128> we have eagle-adsl in universe
[05:55] <mxpxpod> does anyone here use dch with gvim?
[05:55] <seb128> is has been renamed in eagle-usb in debian
[05:55] <seb128> which works better
[05:55] <lamont> T-Bone: the file I just gave you will still need --exclude=lsb-base
[05:55] <jdub> seb128: happy for you to sync the debian package to replace it
[05:55] <seb128> jdub: please read my mail on ubuntu-devel about this, I've included the details
[05:56] <T-Bone> lamont: and taht's all? or kernel-headers are needed too?
[05:56] <jdub> seb128: then shift it into supportedseed/shipseed
[05:56] <lamont> but the --include isn't needed (nor should it be..)
[05:56] <jdub> seb128: with confirmation with matt
[05:56] <seb128> jdub: ok, thanks !
[05:56] <seb128> jdub: and about your version of shared-mime-info ? 
[05:56] <lamont> linux-kernel-headers _is_ included, it's just that libc6-dev Depends it, and the script had ordering issues...
[05:56] <T-Bone> lamont: ok, hold on
[05:56] <jdub> seb128: my which? :)
 seb128: nautilus scripts don't seem to work
 jdub: dpkg -l shared-mime-info ?
[05:57] <seb128> don't ignore the question dude :p
[05:58] <jdub> oh
[05:58] <jdub> 0.14-1.1
[05:59] <seb128> the fix is the libxml2/s-m-i upload you've approved 2 hours ago :p
[05:59] <lamont> T-Bone: and then there's the issue that snapshot.debian.net is b0rked
[05:59] <lamont> date specs don't completely work...
[06:00] <jdub> seb128: boh ;)
[06:00] <lamont> T-Bone: so little things like linux-kernel-headers and apt aren't in that repository...
[06:01] <T-Bone> lamont: do you have other niceties to tell me ? ;)
[06:01] <lamont> give me a few mintuew
[06:01] <T-Bone> lol
[06:02] <T-Bone> lamont: i shall fire some very heavy stuff at you ;^)
[06:04] <lamont> T-Bone: starting with a sarge chroot won't work (too new), and starting with woody is just plain painful.
[06:04] <T-Bone> lamont: debootstrap currently fetching files without errors for now
[06:05] <lamont> and you can't do what I did, which was start with a snapshot that we made of sid on freeze day.  (since we didn't snap ia64...)
[06:05] <T-Bone> lamont: would sbuild help me rebuilding everything, or should i do that "by hand"?
[06:05] <lamont> right.  There's some extra fun to deal with down the road...
[06:05] <lamont> sbuild is your friend.
[06:05] <T-Bone> (i'm up to libc6, currently)
[06:05] <lamont> libc6.1, I hope...
[06:06] <mxpxpod> jdub: if I'm just compiling debian source packages for ubuntu, do I need to add a changelog entry?
[06:06] <T-Bone> lamont: correct ;)
[06:06] <jdub> mxpxpod: if you make a change, yes
[06:07] <mxpxpod> jdub: what if no change is made
[06:07] <jdub> mxpxpod: if not, lamont can sync them directly into universe
[06:07] <mxpxpod> jdub: oh, ok
[06:07] <mxpxpod> lamont: can you sync libsigc++2.0, glibmm2.4, and glibmm2.4?
[06:08] <lamont> mdpxpod: wanna send me an email with the whys and such, and I'll forward it along.
[06:08] <mxpxpod> lamont: to who?
[06:08] <lamont> it goes to jdub, mdz, and elmo
[06:08] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[06:08] <lamont> jdub/mdz approve, elmo syncs
[06:10] <mxpxpod> lamont: email addy?
[06:10] <T-Bone> lamont: up to 'tar' ;)
[06:10] <lamont> lamont@canonical.com
[06:11] <seb128> fabbione: here ?
[06:11] <lamont> T-Bone: did you happen to notice if it fetched either linux-kernel-headers or apt??? :-(
[06:11] <lamont> it didn't for me...
[06:12] <T-Bone> lamont: apparently not. and it fucked up on libc6
[06:12] <lamont> so once the debootstrap fails, then you:
[06:12] <seb128> jdub: hum, the current package of esound uses --disable-alsa ... do you see a reason to keep that ?
[06:12] <lamont>  wget http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/03/debian/pool/main/l/linux-kernel-headers/linux-kernel-headers_2.5.999-test7-bk-16_ia64.deb 
[06:12] <lamont> stuff that in the chroot, dpkg -i it, redo debootstrap (yeah, that's bad...)
[06:12] <lamont> then wget http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/10/debian/pool/main/a/apt/apt_0.5.25_ia64.deb
[06:12] <T-Bone> gack
[06:12] <lamont> and shove that in the chroot
[06:13] <lamont> and install it
[06:13] <lamont> and apt-get update
[06:13] <lamont> er, after creating a good sources.list, that is...
[06:13] <lamont> deb http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/28/debian unstable main
[06:13] <lamont> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main restricted universe
[06:13] <lamont> and then you'll be ahead of me.
[06:14] <lamont> eta 12 minutes on the apt-get update
[06:14] <lamont> T-Bone: yes, well... snapshot.debian.net's date-specs are known to be br0ken.
[06:14] <T-Bone> lamont: rerunning debootstrap on the previously debootstrap'd chroot, right?
[06:15] <lamont> so we'll probably wind up polluting the hell out of this chroot to get main built, etc..
[06:15] <lamont> yes.
[06:15] <T-Bone> k
[06:15] <T-Bone> in progress
[06:15] <lamont> which is just so sick and wrong, but works.
[06:15] <thom> i should get this going on sparc, too
[06:16] <lamont> So really, step 1 is Debug the chroot into existance
[06:16] <lamont> thom: I was planning to wait until late october to do this.
[06:16] <lamont> t-bone is in a hurry though.
[06:16] <thom> give me something to do between firefox builds
[06:16] <T-Bone> lamont: getting tons of unmet deps
[06:16] <lamont> thom: bounced you my email to t-bone
[06:17] <lamont> yeah - those are normal.
[06:17] <lamont> well, less of them is more normal...
[06:17] <T-Bone> shit, libc6dev depends on linux-kernel-headers hower...
[06:17] <T-Bone> s/hower/however/
[06:18] <T-Bone> looks like it didn't work
[06:18] <thom> lamont: grazil
[06:18] <lamont> the next step after the apt-get update is to look at warty.buildd, and figure out what other packages are missing from 2004/06/28 on snapshot.d.n
[06:18] <lamont> T-Bone: after the first debootstrap fails with libc6.1-dev depends l-k-h, then you chroot in to the chroot, dpkg -i linux-ker....deb, drop back out and re-run debootstrap
[06:19] <T-Bone> lamont: exactly what i did
[06:19] <T-Bone> didn't work
[06:19] <lamont> how did it die?
[06:19] <T-Bone> package l-k-h not installed
[06:19] <lamont> the lkh install, how did that die?
[06:19] <T-Bone> didn't die
[06:19] <lamont> oh, after dpkg -i, do dpkg --configure -a
[06:20] <lamont> er, s/-a/--pending/
[06:20] <T-Bone> bummer ;)
[06:20] <lamont> the chroot is pretty resilliant...
[06:20] <T-Bone> gandalf:/# dpkg --configure --pending
[06:20] <T-Bone> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libc6.1-dev:
[06:20] <T-Bone>  libc6.1-dev depends on linux-kernel-headers; however:
[06:20] <T-Bone>   Package linux-kernel-headers is not installed.
[06:20] <lamont> dpkg -l linux-kernel-headers (in the chroot)
[06:21] <T-Bone> un  linux-kernel-h <none>         (no description available)
[06:21] <T-Bone> wtf?
[06:21] <lamont> could it be that you installed it outside the chroot?
[06:21] <T-Bone> nop i didn't
[06:21] <mxpxpod> lamont: in my email, do you want changelog entries to show what's changed?
[06:21] <T-Bone> ii  linux-kernel-h 2.5.999-test7- Linux Kernel Headers for development
[06:21] <T-Bone> lamont: the hell if i understand :P
[06:22] <lamont> mxpxpod: yes
[06:22] <mxpxpod> lamont: okey dokey
[06:22] <lamont> well, at least an explanation of what's changed, and why we care enough to sync.
[06:23] <T-Bone> un  linux-kernel-h <none>         (no description available)
[06:23] <mxpxpod> lamont: I'll just put in changelogs :)
[06:23] <T-Bone> lamont: debootstrap is messing up with my l-k-h manual setup
[06:23] <lamont> which version debootstrap?
[06:23] <T-Bone> still the same
[06:23] <T-Bone> oops
[06:24] <T-Bone>  0.2.45   
[06:24] <lamont> yeah - it must have gotten smarter..
[06:24] <T-Bone> shit
[06:24] <T-Bone> we don't want it to be smarter, do we?
[06:24] <lamont> no.  we want it stoooopid
[06:24] <T-Bone> damn st0000pid :)
[06:24] <T-Bone> so, what's next?
[06:24] <lamont> hit snapshot.d.n, debootstrap, and grab 0.2.39
[06:25] <T-Bone> lamont: and i install it on my sarge box, right?
[06:25] <lamont> yes
[06:27] <mxpxpod> lamont: sent
[06:27] <T-Bone> lamont: still the same
[06:27] <T-Bone> doesn't work
[06:28] <lamont> thom: I'm going to write a 'so you want to bootstrap an architecture' paper when I'm done...
[06:28] <seb128> jdub: nevermind about esound/alsa, was my error
[06:28] <lamont> t-bone: gimme a minute
[06:28] <T-Bone> lamont: do i still want the --exclude flag?
[06:29] <T-Bone> lamont: when i'm done, i'll bootstrap hppa ;)
[06:30] <lamont> T-Bone: I would love for you to debootstrap hppa.
[06:30] <T-Bone> lamont: heh, if i don't have a receipe, i won't be able to do hppa ;)
[06:30] <lamont> t-bone: (1) do what it takes to make a chroot with 06/28 bits.
[06:31] <lamont> did 0.2.39 not install, or did it produce the same issues?
[06:31] <T-Bone> produced the same issues
[06:32] <T-Bone> lamont: this is the kind of receipe i enjoy a lot. It leaves everything up to the cook chief ;)
[06:32] <thom> my sparc has the loudest disks in the history of the world ever :/
[06:33] <T-Bone> thom: the cool thing with ia64 or big hppa boxes, is that you _can't_ here the HDs ;)
[06:33] <lamont> people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/chroot-warty_ia64.tar.bz2 will be complete in about 3 mintues
[06:33] <T-Bone> s/here/hear/
[06:33] <thom> T-Bone: heh
[06:33] <lamont> T-Bone: WHAT??? :-)
[06:33] <T-Bone> lamont: ok, ping me again when it's ready, so that I'll suck it asap
[06:33] <T-Bone> lamont: LOL ;)
[06:34] <lamont> T-Bone: so step 1 for you becomes 1a) untar the beast and then...
[06:34] <T-Bone> lamont: and then i'll need your help to setup sbuild ;)
[06:34] <lamont> right
[06:34] <lamont> was just looking at that...
[06:34] <T-Bone> hehe
[06:35] <elmo> lamont: it doesn't fix it :(
[06:35] <lamont> for file in var/debbuild/avg-build-times var/debbuild/avg-build-space; do install -m0664 -o${USER} -gbuildd /dev/null ${chroot}/${file}; done
[06:35] <lamont> fix etc/apt/sources.list
[06:35] <elmo> tsig.c:293: REQUIRE(targetp != ((void *)0) && *targetp == ((void *)0)) failed.
[06:35] <elmo> zsh: abort      nsupdate
[06:35] <lamont>     grep -q "^${USER}:" ${chroot}/etc/passwd ||
[06:35] <lamont>         getent passwd ${USER} >> ${chroot}/etc/passwd
[06:35] <lamont>     grep -q "^buildd:" ${chroot}/etc/group ||
[06:35] <lamont>         getent group buildd >> ${chroot}/etc/group
[06:35] <lamont>     grep -q "^${USER}:" ${chroot}/etc/shadow ||
[06:35] <lamont>         echo ${USER}:\*:$(getent shadow ${USER} | cut -d: -f3-9) >> ${chroot}/etc/shadow
[06:35] <lamont>     grep -q "^proc-${USER}-$rel$flavor " /etc/fstab ||
[06:35] <lamont>         echo proc-${USER}-$rel$flavor ${UHOME}/${chroot}/proc proc rw 0 0 >> /etc/fstab
[06:35] <lamont>     mount proc-${USER}-$rel$flavor || true
[06:36] <lamont>     [ -f /etc/source-dependencies-${rel}${flavor} ]  || 
[06:36] <lamont>         :> /etc/source-dependencies-${rel}${flavor}
[06:36] <lamont> ew.  sorry about the flood.
[06:36] <T-Bone> lamont: actually i think it'd be much simpler for you to mail me that ;P
[06:36] <lamont> elmo: that's not fixed?
[06:36] <lamont> T-Bone: yea
[06:36] <T-Bone> lamont: ETA?
[06:37] <elmo> lamont: the first one I tried worked - the second didn't :(
[06:38] <lamont> T-Bone: scp done
[06:38] <lamont> T-Bone: script sent, extract as needed.. :-)
[06:39] <T-Bone> lamont: wget in progress
[06:39] <lamont> thom: take steps from /usr/share/buildd-config/build-chroot on any buildd
[06:39] <lamont> thom: t-bone got the sanitized script
[06:40] <T-Bone> lamont: ok, chroot extracted
[06:40] <T-Bone> lamont: anything i should change to your script?
[06:41] <lamont> elmo: would it be extremely painful to use the wayback machine to get the .debs for everything in hoglet for all architectures?
[06:41] <lamont> T-Bone: yeah - just read it and do what it says..
[06:41] <lamont> that script starts from scratch, and builds a warty chroot, assuming that you have a warty repository to start from.
[06:41] <lamont> so find the debootstrap, and start right after that.
[06:42] <T-Bone> lamont: so it's to be run within the warty chroot?
[06:42] <lamont> the pinning probably needs some tlc, etc.
[06:42] <lamont> no.
[06:42] <lamont> that runs outside the chroot, to _BUILD_ the chroot
[06:42] <lamont> but we don't meet the conditions it requires (we're bootstrapping...)
[06:42] <elmo> lamont: huh?  why on earth do you want hoglet?
[06:43] <lamont> elmo: what I really want is a coherent sid as of June 28
[06:43] <lamont> snapshot.debian.net's datespec Packages files are rather, um, sparse.
[06:43] <lamont> T-Bone: in that chroot, apt-get install build-essential, btw.
[06:44] <T-Bone>  for file in var/debbuild/avg-build-times var/debbuild/avg-build-space Curren
[06:44] <T-Bone> tlyBuilding; do
[06:44] <T-Bone> this is relative to the chroot i guess?
[06:45] <lamont> yeah
[06:45] <lamont> you can skip CurrentlyBuilding, btw
[06:46] <lamont> T-Bone: more to the point, it uses ${chroot}${file} :-)
[06:46] <lamont> elmo: and I don't care if it's sid or sarge.
[06:48] <elmo> lamont: we just keep the files not the packages files - I don't see any sane way to get what you're asking - can't you just do the double bootstrap thing?
[06:48] <T-Bone> lamont: so i skip the for loop, but i have to edit sources.list, right?
[06:48] <lamont> elmo: OK.  was hoping for something trivial
[06:48] <lamont> yes
[06:49] <lamont> the sources.list in the tarball points to 'ia', and you want 'archive.ubuntu.com'
[06:49] <lamont> otherwise, it's right
[06:49] <T-Bone> ok
[06:50] <ore> Hi
[06:51] <ore> is there someone behind mailman@lists.ubuntu.com?
[06:51] <lamont> elmo: the issue is that debootstrap wants _one_ mirror, and we ain't got one.  (Although snapshot.d.n comes close...)
[06:51] <thom> retreving perl
[06:52] <T-Bone> btw: i have a funny bug: when i login to my warty box, the "X" cursor appears on the center of the screen, but it's not the actuall arrow cursor. It stays there on top of everything
[06:52] <lamont> thom: no complaining: 8% [3 binutils 1422412/2996kB 47%]                              3511B/s 1h17m42s
[06:53] <lamont> 6 minutes is a biit better...
[06:54] <T-Bone> lamont: you have to be kidding ;^)
[06:54] <lamont> T-Bone: wierd.
[06:55] <T-Bone> lamont: i remove all other entries in the sources.list, or i add the new ones?
[06:55] <thom> unpacking libc6
[06:56] <lamont> in the tarball, there should only be 2...
[06:56] <T-Bone> right
[06:56] <lamont> deb http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2004/06/28/debian unstable main
[06:56] <lamont> deb-src http://ia/ubuntu warty main restricted universe
[06:56] <T-Bone> yep
[06:56] <lamont> is what I'm using,
[06:56] <lamont> that's all you want
[06:56] <T-Bone> oh
[06:56] <lamont> for _this_ chroot
[06:57] <T-Bone> hmm
[06:57] <T-Bone> ah
[06:57] <T-Bone> bummer
[06:57] <T-Bone> let me recap
[06:57] <T-Bone> once i have unpacked your chroot, what should I do? ;)
[06:57] <thom> we, i have a chroot
[06:59] <lamont> T-Bone: in the chroot, apt-get install build-essential
[06:59] <lamont> then
[06:59] <T-Bone> done
[06:59] <lamont> any files/directories created by the script after the chroot should happen, minus sources.list
[06:59] <lamont> including mods to chroot's passwd,group, and shadow files
[07:00] <lamont> create chroot/proc, and mount it (mount happens outside the chroot)
[07:00] <T-Bone> done
[07:00] <lamont> touch /etc/source-dependencies-warty
[07:00] <lamont> (outside)
[07:00] <lamont> apt-get install sbuild
[07:00] <T-Bone> outside?
[07:00] <T-Bone> the touch is outside the chroot?
[07:00] <lamont> yeah - sbuild fetchs things outside the chroot, using sources.list inside the chroot
[07:00] <T-Bone> ah true
[07:01] <lamont> so it looks for /etc/source-dependencies-${THING}
[07:01] <T-Bone> yeah i recall
[07:01] <T-Bone> sbuild installed (outside)
[07:02] <T-Bone> chroot-warty# cp -a /etc/passwd /etc/group /etc/shadow etc/
[07:02] <lamont> T-Bone: lazy.  my hacks only add the user, and don't copy the shadow password file..
[07:02] <T-Bone> lol
[07:02] <lamont> this is untrusted code running in the chroot, after all.
[07:02] <T-Bone> lamont: this is a box freshly installed, i am the only user on it
[07:03] <T-Bone> and it'll be fully dedicated to build everything for ubuntu
[07:03] <T-Bone> got it
[07:03] <lamont> kewl
[07:03] <lamont> once it's all built, we'll use your repository to bootstrap the buildd's repository, and then build everything from scratch there, of course.. :)
[07:04] <lamont> and then you sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20
[07:04] <lamont> hrm...  do you have ~/.sbuildrc?
[07:04] <lamont> and ~/logs
[07:04] <T-Bone> no
[07:04] <T-Bone> lemme grab it from the hppa sbuild
[07:05] <lamont>         install -d -o${USER} -m0750 logs mqueue old-logs stats stats/graphs upload
[07:05] <lamont> in your home dir
[07:05] <T-Bone> lamont: would it be easier for me to run sbuild as root?
[07:05] <lamont> make sure that /var/debbuild exists (outside)
[07:05] <lamont> no
[07:05] <lamont> doesn't help
[07:06] <lamont> although the user needs to have full sudo wide open with no password...
[07:06] <T-Bone> visudoing
[07:06] <lamont>         mkdir -p /var/debbuild/srcdep-lock
[07:06] <lamont>         touch /var/debbuild/avg-build-times /var/debbuild/avg-build-space
[07:06] <lamont>         chown -R ${USER}:buildd /var/debbuild/
[07:06] <seb128> lamont: do you know why mime-shared-info is missing on i386 ?
[07:07] <seb128> the build log is ok
[07:07] <T-Bone>  ${USER}:buildd ?
[07:07] <seb128> lamont: oups, shared-mime-info <- right name
[07:07] <T-Bone> lamont: any way i can avoid the damn thing to mail me everything?
[07:10] <lamont> seb.  sigh
[07:11] <lamont> T-Bone: set up mail on the local machine, or see /usr/bin/sbuild
[07:11] <lamont> sbuild --nolog
[07:11] <T-Bone> will setup on local machine
[07:12] <T-Bone> we might need logs no matter what
[07:12] <lamont> but that doesn't give you log files at all, which is bad
[07:13] <lamont> $mailprog="/bin/true";   :)
[07:13] <T-Bone> lol
[07:13] <T-Bone> perfect ;)
[07:13] <T-Bone> ok
[07:13] <T-Bone> what's next?
[07:14] <lamont> sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20
[07:15] <T-Bone> varenet@gandalf:~$ sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20
[07:15] <T-Bone> Bad distribution
[07:15] <T-Bone> sigh
[07:15] <jdub> oh man
[07:15] <lamont> is the chroot named chroot-warty?
[07:15] <jdub> did i miss an sbuild tute?
[07:15] <T-Bone> yes
[07:15] <lamont> doh.
[07:15] <T-Bone> jdub: you did ;)
[07:15] <jdub> oh man
[07:15] <lamont> damn debian sbuild
[07:15] <lamont>                 #die "Bad distribution\n"
[07:15] <lamont>                 #       if !isin($main::distribution, keys(%main::dist_order));
[07:15] <lamont> you need to add the #'s to your file.. :-)
[07:15] <T-Bone> jdub: don't worry. lamont volunteered to write it down
[07:16] <T-Bone> lamont: where is it?
[07:16] <lamont> /usr/bin/sbuild
[07:16] <lamont> about line 570 or so
[07:16] <jdub> lamont: the sbuild package is poo, right? and real sbuild is maintained elsewhere?
[07:16] <lamont> search for Bad distribution :-)
[07:16] <lamont> jdub: yes
[07:16] <T-Bone>  $main::distribution = "unstable" if $main::distribution eq "u";
[07:16] <T-Bone>                 die "Bad distribution\n"
[07:16] <lamont> and we had to fork
[07:17] <lamont> t-bone; the die, and the line _following_
[07:17] <jdub> lamont: can we have elite sbuild in ubuntu?
[07:17] <T-Bone> lamont: yeah. I trash them both?
[07:17] <T-Bone> jdub: we can have 3l33t only ;)
[07:17] <lamont> jdub: chinstrap:~lamont/archive has our sbuild et al
[07:17] <jdub> ahr!
[07:17] <lamont> t-bone: yes.
[07:18] <T-Bone> varenet@gandalf:~$ sbuild -dwarty ed_0.2-20
[07:18] <T-Bone> varenet@gandalf:~$ 
[07:18] <lamont> I added this after the options parsing:
[07:18] <T-Bone> that was quick :P
[07:18] <lamont> die "Need distribution\n" if $main::distribution eq "bogus";
[07:18] <lamont> and set distribution=bogus above
[07:18] <lamont> it's a small package, or it died
[07:18] <lamont> ls, should have ed_0.2-20_ia64.changes
[07:18] <lamont> et al
[07:18] <T-Bone> Checking available source versions...
[07:18] <T-Bone> /usr/bin/apt-cache failed
[07:19] <lamont> you were root when you untarred, yes?
[07:19] <T-Bone> yes
[07:19] <lamont> and ls chroot-warty/proc shows stuff, not an empty dir?
[07:19] <azeem> is proc really needed for sbuiling?
[07:19] <T-Bone> /proc on /home/varenet/chroot-warty/proc type none (rw,bind)
[07:19] <lamont> sudo chroot chroot-warty apt-get update
[07:20] <lamont> azeem: there are things that won't build without it, or (worse) build incorrectly
[07:20] <T-Bone> lamont: ah, that's it. I forgot the visudo step ;)
[07:20] <lamont> T-Bone: sbuild doesn't auto-update either.
[07:20] <lamont> the buildd normally does that
[07:20] <azeem> lamont: ok, but not in the general case
[07:20] <lamont> azeem: right.  But t-bone is trying to build everything...
[07:21] <azeem> ok, ok
[07:21] <T-Bone> lamont: i must have crap in my sources.list. Got 404s
[07:21] <lamont> T-Bone: and remember, if you don't redirect stdin away from a tty (at least), then there is at least one package whose build hangs...
[07:21] <lamont> T-Bone: ??
[07:21] <lamont> what do you have?
[07:21] <T-Bone> lamont: what's the full domain name for 'ia' please?
[07:21] <lamont> archive.ubuntu.com
[07:22] <lamont> ia is my throttled mirror - you wouldn't like it.
[07:22] <T-Bone> much better
[07:22] <T-Bone> lol
[07:23] <T-Bone> you _did_ confuse me ;)
[07:24] <lamont> now parse chroot-warty/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_warty_main_source_Sources to build a list of source_version's, and feed that to sbuild
[07:24] <seb128> lamont: about shared-mime-info ?
[07:24] <lamont> that'd be step (2) from the mail..
[07:24] <lamont> seb128: fixed
[07:24] <seb128> ok thanks
[07:24] <lamont> seb128: when I kill buildd on a machine, I expect it to stay dead.
[07:25] <T-Bone> Cannot opendir chroot-warty/var/debbuild/srcdep-lock: No such file or director
[07:25] <T-Bone> you said that was _outside_ ;P
[07:25] <lamont> T-Bone: it's both
[07:25] <T-Bone> Waiting for job(s) 1 to finish
[07:25] <T-Bone> it's stuck on that, fwiw
[07:25] <lamont> kill lots of stuff
[07:26] <thom> lamont is good at the confusion
[07:27] <lamont> t-bone: and mkdir chroot-warty/build/varenet (and chown)
[07:27] <lamont> thom: ??
[07:27] <lamont> oh, the kill buildd comment?
[07:27] <thom> lamont: just generally
[07:27] <T-Bone> lamont: still stuck
[07:27] <T-Bone> lamont: i don't think that's normal
[07:28] <T-Bone> ah that's it
[07:28] <T-Bone> ok, trying again
[07:28] <T-Bone> Couldn't cd to chroot-warty/build/varenet/: No such file or directory
[07:29] <T-Bone> grrrr
 t-bone: and mkdir chroot-warty/build/varenet (and chown)
[07:29] <T-Bone> lol
[07:30] <T-Bone> Built successfully
[07:30] <T-Bone> YATTA
[07:30] <T-Bone> so, now, i have to produce a list of packages to feed sbuild with
 now parse chroot-warty/var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_warty_main_source_Sources to build a list of source_version's, and feed that to sbuild
[07:31] <thom> i could get _really_ bored of building firefox
[07:31] <lamont> yeah: grep out Package and Version from that
[07:31] <thom> and i've just broken my sparc
[07:31] <thom> gar
[07:31] <lamont> thom: how borke?
[07:31] <thom> refusing ssh connections
[07:31] <T-Bone> lamont: it's storing everything in my homedir. Any way i can change that?
[07:33] <thom> i'll fix it when i stop using that monitor for watching dvds
[07:34] <lamont> T-Bone: umount chroot-warty/proc; mkdir build; mv chroot-warty build; fix the mount point, remount.
[07:34] <lamont> and then run sbuild from inside build
[07:35] <lamont> thom/jdub: if you use _our_ sbuild, then you do care about ${chroot}/CurrentlyBuilding
[07:36] <lamont> which must be writable by the user running sbuild
[07:38] <lamont> T-Bone: be lazy.
[07:38] <lamont> apt-get install quinn-diff
[07:38] <T-Bone> lamont: sure, i'd like to :P
[07:38] <lamont> fetch warty Sources
[07:38] <T-Bone> in the chroot?
[07:38] <lamont> quinn-diff -A ia64 -p /dev/null -s Sources
[07:39] <lamont> outside
[07:39] <lamont> but you do have the Sources file in the chroot already
[07:40] <mdz> morning
[07:41] <T-Bone> lamont: ok, that gives me lines like "libs/libwnck_2.8.0-0ubuntu1.dsc [optional:uncompiled] "
[07:41] <T-Bone> can i feed that to sbuild directly?
[07:41] <lamont> no.
[07:41] <lamont> sed 's:^.*/\(.*\).dsc.*:\1:
[07:41] <lamont> '
[07:42] <T-Bone> just great ;)
[07:42] <T-Bone> [quinn-diff] : warning: ubuntu-sounds has an architecture field of "all" which doesn't include ia64.
[07:42] <lamont> yeah, but that's easier...
[07:42] <T-Bone> should i ignore these?
[07:42] <lamont> yeah
[07:42] <lamont> it is... :-)
[07:43] <T-Bone> =)
[07:43] <lamont> those are packages that have no arch-dep component
[07:43] <T-Bone> oic
[07:43] <lamont> so they're _ALREADY_BUILT_ for your architecture!!! :-)
[07:43] <T-Bone> bummer
[07:43] <T-Bone> yeah true. I just wondered why this would make a warning
[07:43] <T-Bone> ok so no big time for xargs, right?
[07:44] <T-Bone> s/no/now/
[07:44] <lamont> quinn-diff wants to be run intelligently...
[07:44] <T-Bone> lol
[07:44] <T-Bone> that's a crime ;)
[07:44] <lamont> xargs not needed for main, dunno about universe...
[07:44] <T-Bone> no, i mean "cat list | xargs sbuild"
[07:44] <T-Bone> lol
[07:44] <T-Bone> fine!
[07:45] <lamont> that takes about 48 hours or so on a good x86 machines, iirc
[07:46] <T-Bone> started
[07:46] <lamont> if I had bandwidth, we could share... :-(
[07:46] <T-Bone> don't worry
[07:46] <T-Bone> btw, i wonder if it'll take advantage of SMP
[07:46] <T-Bone> i guess no
[07:47] <lamont> and now you have time to kill while that runs, figuring out the CD stuff on i386.
[07:47] <lamont> marginally
[07:47] <lamont> only in that gcc and as and ld will run on separate cpus...
[07:47] <T-Bone> correct
[07:48] <lamont> then when the build finishes and you know how to make CD's, then you can make d-i work on ia64.
[07:48] <T-Bone> well, it should be pretty fast. Dual mckinley 900Mhz with 4GB RAM
[07:48] <lamont> while the total flush/rebuild happens
[07:48] <lamont> shouldn't be tooo bad
[07:48] <T-Bone> lamont: hehe, that'd be quite nice ;)
[07:48] <T-Bone> you betcha!
[07:49] <T-Bone> lamont: or else, i can start an hppa bootstrap in the meantime ;)
[07:50] <lamont> T-Bone: go for it.
[07:50] <T-Bone> lol
[07:50] <lamont> and see issue #1. :(
[07:50] <lamont> _and_ it's a b180.
[07:50] <T-Bone> lamont: the problem is debootstrap actually
[07:50] <T-Bone> #1N
[07:50] <T-Bone> s/N/?/
[07:51] <lamont> * lamont has no time,
[07:51] <T-Bone> lol
[07:51] <T-Bone> so you'd better deal with porting d-i later, right?
[07:51] <lamont> gimme root on the box, and I'll give you a chroot
[07:51] <T-Bone> sure np
[07:51] <T-Bone> hold on
[07:51] <lamont> I figured you'd be the hppa/ia64 d-i god, dude...
[07:51] <T-Bone> lol
[07:51] <T-Bone> i've never touched d-i yet ;)
[07:51] <lamont> ditto
[07:52] <T-Bone> gonna have fun ;)
[07:52] <T-Bone> lamont: send me an ssh2 pubkey please
[07:52] <T-Bone> i wonder if i shouldn't setup a local mirror of warty sources
[07:53] <T-Bone> if i'm going to run two test buildds, i'd need to spare bandwidth
[07:53] <lamont> want my scripts?
[07:53] <T-Bone> sure!
[07:53] <T-Bone> lamont: a rough idea of the disk space needed?
[07:54] <lamont> warty main, restricted, and a bit of universe, for i386 and source --> 3.8GB
[07:55] <T-Bone> that's tiny!
[07:55] <T-Bone> let's go for it
[07:55] <T-Bone> lamont: please send me your scripts along with a ssh2 key
[07:55] <lamont> ok
[08:00] <lamont> mdz?
[08:05] <npmccallum> is there anyone here that can do debuggin on a samba/smb setup?
[08:05] <npmccallum> (ie. you have windows)
[08:05] <npmccallum> (or are using samba for printer sharing)
[08:12] <mdz> lamont: ?
[08:13] <lamont> 1577.. I'd like to just sync..
[08:13] <lamont> (yeah, I know...)
 (A) shipping an RC is really, really, ugly.  (B) 9.2.4 just released, (C) upstream is good about not releasing until they've fixed things. (D) it's been verified to fix #1577.
 jdub: can we sync it from debian? please, please, please, please
 lamont: i'm going to defer to mdz on this one, sorry :-)
 lamont: it has my approval if he's happy with it
[08:15] <mdz> lamont: it's not even in unstable yet :-)
[08:15] <lamont> well, yeah
[08:15] <lamont> but it will be in 45 minutes...
[08:16] <thom> thunderbird 0.8 looks like it sucks as much as 0.7, can i upload?
[08:17] <npmccallum> mdz: I haven't heard anything about what we are allowed to change on the openoffice splash screen.  Do you want me to simply do something like: http://www.natemccallum.com/uooo.png ?
[08:18] <thom> mdz: that was to you, sorry
[08:19] <lamont> thom: you're supposed to say "0.8 looks like it sucks no more than 0.7, can I upload?" :-)
[08:19] <thom> same odds :-)
[08:24] <mdz> thom: yes
[08:24] <thom> 'k
[08:25] <thom> (i'm having to binary search through the patches and config for firefox to work out why find is broken, it's not fun)
[08:25] <mdz> npmccallum: did you ask someone about the restrictions?
[08:25] <npmccallum> mdz: I asked in #openoffice.org and on the mailing list
[08:25] <mdz> npmccallum: and no one replied at all?
[08:25] <npmccallum> mdz: mailing list == dev@distribution.openoffice.org
[08:26] <npmccallum> mdz: no reply on the mailing list
[08:26] <npmccallum> mdz: in the channel I got a "you're probably fine with whatever -- IANAL"
[08:26] <npmccallum> mdz: as long as we stick close to what debian has done, there should be no problem for this release
[08:27] <azeem> why don't you use the vanilla splash? Do you also brand evolution and so?
[08:27] <npmccallum> mdz: vanilla splash is an option too
[08:30] <sivang> T-Bone : so, a ia64 warty is expected?
[08:34] <T-Bone> sivang: i'm not to one to tell
[08:35] <sivang> T-Bone : good luck with setting up the sources and buildds !
[08:35] <T-Bone> heh
[08:36] <T-Bone> thx
[08:36] <T-Bone> but that's not the most difficult part
[08:41] <pitti> mdz: can you please take a look at #1599 and approve?
[08:42] <pitti> mdz: this is half a step backwards, but I tried to make the new gnome-vfs2 play well with our system the whole day; I agreed with sabdfl that I should just upload a working version now and do the bonus work later, if there is more time
[08:48] <thom> firefox is making baby jesus cry a frickin' river
[08:53] <schweeb> thom: I'm about 2 more type-ahead-finds from an install of the old version
[08:54] <pitti> schweeb: already done :-) Now that the feature is not available, I just recognized how useful it is :-)
[08:54] <schweeb> pitti: well it works... somewhat/barely
[08:55] <schweeb> and the backspace = go back a page is frigging killing me
[08:55] <schweeb> just cause people use IE doesn't mean we can't make them fix their bad habits
[09:07] <npmccallum> is there an authoritative mime type list anywhere?
[09:09] <seb128> ?
[09:09] <npmccallum> that I can browse/search through mime types...
[09:10] <seb128> the files in /usr/share/mime/ ?
[09:11] <seb128> /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml
[09:11] <teuf> I'd recommend looking at the corresponding .org.xml.in file from shared-mime-info source since it doesn't have all the translations
[09:25] <pitti> seb128: I'm going to upload gvfs now (see #1599); it will also close #1636 (Trash); do you have any other changes to make?
[09:26] <seb128> let me check
[09:30] <seb128> pitti: apparently no, just go for it
[09:30] <pitti> seb128: okay
[09:30] <seb128> mdz: here ?
[09:37] <mdz> seb128: yes
[09:37] <mdz> npmccallum: if you have any doubts, just go with vanilla splash
[09:37] <seb128> mdz: have you read my mail on -devel about eagle-usb las tweek ?
[09:37] <mdz> npmccallum: mark said he was fine with that
[09:38] <mdz> seb128: I remember seeing it
[09:38] <seb128> mdz: there is a thread about it on -user today
[09:39] <seb128> jdub said he's fine with uploading eagle-usb and to move it to supportedseed/shipseed if you're ok
[09:40] <mdz> I am not familiar with the software; does it require kernel modules?
[09:40] <mdz> how many packages do we need? there seemed to be several with similar names
[09:40] <npmccallum> mdz: I'm also waiting for approval on #1630
[09:40] <mdz> npmccallum: you added a conflicts: gnome-audio ?
[09:41] <mdz> or something else?
[09:41] <npmccallum> mdz: I also tweaked two of the sounds, but its not code related (just volume changes)
[09:41] <mdz> npmccallum: ok, go ahead
[09:43] <npmccallum> mdz: should we add a conflicts to gnome-audio as well?
[09:43] <mdz> @#$@# xchat shortcuts
[09:43] <seb128> mdz: yes, need a kernel module. The source package build a -src package for the module that's all
[09:43] <npmccallum> mdz: should we add a conflicts to gnome-audio as well?
[09:43] <mdz> seb128: can you send mail to -devel with all of the details about which packages we need?
[09:43] <mdz> npmccallum: I thought you implied that you already did that
[09:43] <seb128> mdz: ok
[09:44] <mdz> npmccallum: did you fix #1630 some other way?
[09:44] <npmccallum> mdz: I added "Conflict: gnome-audio" to the ubuntu-sounds package, should "Conflicts: ubuntu-sounds" go into gnome-audio as well?
[09:45] <npmccallum> (gnome-audio is in universe)
[09:45] <mdz> npmccallum: no, conflicts: gnome-audio on ubuntu-sounds is sufficient
[09:45] <mdz> they work both ways
[09:46] <npmccallum> mdz: I thought so, just wanted to check... also, I have the change to libgnome-common done (enables sounds by default).  However, at seb128's suggestion, I have not depended on ubuntu-sounds.  He suggesting adding it to desktop seed.
[09:57] <thom> mdz: does xchat not use the gtk key bindings?
[09:57] <mdz> npmccallum: why not depend on ubuntu-sounds?
[09:57] <mdz> if sounds are enabled by default, and ubuntu-sounds is not installed, won't that cause a problem?
[09:57] <npmccallum> mdz: no
[09:57] <npmccallum> mdz: it just acts gracefully
[09:58] <mdz> thom: the last time I looked, it had a hard-coded ^W shortcut
[09:58] <mdz> even though I think it is a default gtk binding, which can be overridden globally otherwise
[09:58] <mdz> npmccallum: ok, fine with me
[09:58] <mdz> I'll add ubuntu-sounds to desktop
[09:58] <npmccallum> ok, the new ubuntu-sounds should be in the queue
[09:58] <mdz> however, that means that existing users will never get it
[09:59] <mdz> which is a shame
[10:00] <npmccallum> mdz: if we want to we can add a depend to ubuntu-artwork :)
[10:00] <mdz> we could add an ubuntu-desktop package to desktop, which would be used to pull in new dependencies in the future
[10:00] <sivang> maybe a package can be introduced into the installer, that will check new pkgs that we _want_ users to get, so it will install a set of new different pkgs each time a regular warty (even old snapshot) is installed.
[10:01] <sivang> hmm ;) you just said what I thought about..
[10:01] <mdz> sivang: we already do that
[10:01] <mdz> but users who upgrade aren't helped by it
[10:01] <sivang> i see
[10:01] <mdz> another option would be to add a script to ubuntu-base
[10:02] <sivang> than adding a desktop package is a good thing, I guess
[10:02] <mdz> which would run aptitude install '~tubuntu-desktop'
[10:02] <thom> mdz: yeuch
[10:02] <mdz> thom: we're going to have something like that anyway, for woody upgrades
[10:02] <sivang> sounds like reasonable enough
[10:02] <thom> (yeuch to xchat, i mean)
[10:02] <mdz> something which lets them say "give me the ubuntu desktop"
[10:02] <sivang> exactly
[10:03] <npmccallum> and its entirely unambiguous :)
[10:05] <npmccallum> mdz: do I have approval to upload new libgnome? (just enables sounds by default)
[10:05] <mdz> npmccallum: yes, have seb review it if you are unsure
[10:09] <mdz> brb
[10:10] <mdz> thom: aha
[10:10] <mdz> thom: new xchat has an ugly workaround
[10:10] <mdz> thom: if the gtk key theme is set to emacs _when xchat starts_, it changes the keybinding
[10:10] <thom> eww
[10:12] <elmo> npmccallum: please get ubuntu-sounds added to the apporpriate seed
[10:12] <npmccallum> elmo: <mdz> I'll add ubuntu-sounds to desktop
[10:13] <mdz> seb128, npmccallum: what was the reason for not wanting it as a dependency?
[10:13] <npmccallum> mdz: so people can remove it if they don't want it
[10:13] <seb128> because that's not mandatory ?
[10:13] <mdz> is it large?
[10:13] <mdz> ah, it is
[10:13] <mdz> ok
[10:13] <mdz> works for me
[10:13] <seb128> fine
[10:16] <mdz> so if a user upgrades, and then installs ubuntu-sounds, does that enable the sounds?
[10:16] <mdz> or are they disabled if they are missing?
[10:16] <npmccallum> if the sounds are missing, no settings change, the sounds just don't play
[10:17] <npmccallum> its basically like -- if sounds_enabled() and sounds_exist(): play_sounds()
[10:21] <npmccallum> mdz: I can dither down the size on those sounds btw, I just know a lot of people like Hifi stuff.  Plus, some sound cards only play at 44.1khz, which can be a pain
[10:21] <mdz> npmccallum: I don't think it's excessive
[10:21] <mdz> but it's large enough that people who are concerned about space, and don't want the sounds anyway, could very well want to remove it
[10:22] <npmccallum> ok
[10:23] <thom> GRAR. make distclean doesn't
[10:29] <thom> 15kl diff.gz
[10:29] <thom> of which a thousand lines are debian/
[10:29] <thom> and the rest is autogen'd crap
[10:31] <mdz> lamont: our special this evening is a delicious freshly-resurrected getty bug, braised in a light tty sauce
[10:31] <mdz> that thing is still wreaking havoc on the console
[10:31] <lamont> mdz: yeah - I saw that one.
[10:31] <lamont> and it's top of the list
[10:31] <lamont> then there are a few others...
[10:32] <lamont> btw, had any thoughts on 1577, now that it's in debian?? :-)
[10:36] <lamont> sivang: I just need a console login to break things with
[10:37] <m_tthew> mdz: ping
[10:37] <mdz> m_tthew: pong
[10:37] <sivang> lamont : I have one running on my gf's laptop only because she's like "please don't let me see those black screens that you like so much"
[10:37] <m_tthew> mdz: the athlon arrived, bit of a roadbump installing
[10:38] <m_tthew> mdz: am looking for a little 'here is a nice path to bug report' guidance
[10:38] <m_tthew> mdz: boot from usb works great, installer can't find the cdrom drive
[10:38] <sivang> lamont : i really feel more comfortable loggin console.
[10:38] <mdz> m_tthew: Component: cdrom-detect
[10:39] <m_tthew> ack
[10:39] <lamont> mdz: btw, did you see my gross fix for postfix and /etc/aliases.db?
[10:39] <schweeb> m_tthew: which brand of cdrom?
[10:39] <mdz> lamont: no
[10:39] <schweeb> m_tthew: had problems with liteon + d-i myself
[10:39] <m_tthew> schweeb: it's LG DVDblahblah in an USB ATA enclosure
[10:40] <lamont> mdz: postalias requires myhostname to be non-null or it dies.  choices are: rewrite newalias (ugh), or notice that it's null, set it non-null, run newaliases, and then restore main.cf...
[10:40] <mdz> m_tthew: oh, the same one I have (approximately)?
[10:40] <m_tthew> works 100% connected to my i386 ubuntu box, but I did not install from it there
[10:40] <m_tthew> mdz: yeah it is the dual layer version of yours
[10:40] <m_tthew> mdz: in that enclosure
[10:41] <schweeb> m_tthew: it boots via the usbcdrom and then can't find the install media, essentially?
[10:41] <m_tthew> schweeb: exactly
[10:41] <schweeb> that's exactly the problem I've been having with regular d-i
[10:41] <schweeb> I think it's a kernel issue combined with bad firmware
[10:41] <m_tthew> I am pretty USB naive so I don't know what module should load anyway
[10:41] <m_tthew> delightful
[10:41] <mdz> lamont: what was the blocker on gnucash again?
[10:41] <schweeb> LG and Lite-ON are probably close to the same hardware
[10:42] <schweeb> m_tthew: remember the mdk installer that would kill cdrom drives? think it's related to that... probably fixed the kernel so it would never do that
[10:42] <schweeb> so, in short, look for new firmware (or a diff drive)
[10:42] <m_tthew> ack
[10:43] <sivang> schweeb : i've had numerous bugs and problems with LG, my new liteon drive has never given me any trouble. you sure they are the same chipset / framwork based?
[10:44] <schweeb> sivang: well, I have 2 liteon drives in my desk that don't work.... every single IBM NetVista that I purchase can't install via d-i unless I use a different CDROM
[10:44] <schweeb> but
[10:44] <lamont> thom/sabdfl: gtkpbbuttons and powerprefs both ftbfs, missing build-deps
[10:44] <lamont> thom: but they got past pbbuttons
[10:44] <schweeb> I can install via the old Blade XFS Netinstall just fine
[10:44] <schweeb> Lite-On Model LTN-486s and LTN-483S
[10:45] <thom> lamont: ping me the logs?
[10:46] <sivang> schweeb : guess it's more than just the cdrom, maybe the whole system makeup - all my d-i (debian/ubuntu) installs using that drive, never had a problem. fast as a deamon
[10:47] <lamont> thom: first two on the list today: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/20040923.html
[10:47] <schweeb> sivang: same model of liteon as me?
[10:47] <lamont> both need gtk+2.0, and powerprefs? neesd path-config
[10:47] <sivang> schweeb : what's the model # ?
[10:47] <schweeb> Lite-On Model LTN-486s and LTN-483S
[10:48] <schweeb> CDROMs
[10:49] <schweeb> some guy was having the same problem, and posted to LKML with no response
[10:49] <sivang> schweeb : hmm sorry, I have a cdrw = SOHR-5238S ;-)
[10:49] <schweeb> IBM systems (same as me)
[10:49] <schweeb> sivang: of course the firmware would be diff :p
[10:50] <sivang> schweeb : yes ofcourse. I had problems with LG hardware and d-i, (was also a cdrw) that's why i got confused.
[10:50] <schweeb> ah
[10:50] <thom> lamont: thanks
[10:50] <schweeb> these actually could be CDRWs, but they have no markings to indicate so
[10:50] <schweeb> ugh
[10:50] <schweeb> gotta download msttcorefonts
[10:51] <schweeb> liteon's site fonts look utterly horrible
[10:51] <sivang> yes,. I heared also that a dvdrom is actually a dvdrw, with a minor fimrware patch that can even downloaded from the internet
[10:51] <schweeb> yea
[10:51] <schweeb> Liteon is pretty famous for such things
[10:52] <schweeb> makes it cheaper for them... it's not like everyone's gonna be willing to flash their firmware to get a dvdrw... some will buy it
[10:52] <sivang> i like the drive alot. serves my ubuntu testing needs very well. I really HATED the lg, so buggy and unstable
[10:52] <sivang> eight
[10:52] <sivang> right
[10:54] <thom> lamont: this is the trouble with single platform packages in debian, i guess
[10:55] <lamont> thom: certainly
[11:03] <pitti> sjoerd: do you already have packaged hal 0.2.98? If so, I don't need to do that again
[11:04] <sjoerd> pitti: it's basically done, yes
[11:06] <pitti> sjoerd: I would like to prepare them for Warty; many of my changes are adopted upstream now, but there are still some ubuntu-specific packages
[11:06] <pitti> sjoerd: s/packages$/patches/
[11:06] <pitti> sjoerd: do you still need to work on them?
[11:07] <sjoerd> pitti: one patch so it finds the usb usermap libgphoto2 now installs
[11:07] <pitti> sjoerd: oh, I think I can handle that :-)
[11:07] <sjoerd> http://luon.net/~sjoerd/hal/hal-0.2.98/
[11:07] <pitti> sjoerd: thanks!
[11:07] <sjoerd> and some testing ofcourse
[11:08] <pitti> sjoerd: yes, I will not upload them into Warty before about a week of testing
[11:08] <sjoerd> anyway, i need to wait for a dbus update before i can update it in debian
[11:08] <pitti> sjoerd: since I also need to upgrade other packages (dbus, gnome-volume-manager)
[11:08] <pitti> sjoerd: oh, 0.2.98 doesn't work with dbus 0.22?
[11:09] <sjoerd> pitti: it does, but the python bindings don't have support for 64 bit values
[11:09] <sjoerd> so hdm fails 
[11:09] <pitti> sjoerd: hdm?
[11:09] <sjoerd> hal-device-manager :)
[11:09] <pitti> ah
[11:09] <sjoerd> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=272862
[11:09] <pitti> sjoerd: ugh, if hal-device-manager fails, we cannot put it into warty
[11:10] <sjoerd> i've put a patch there too, so if you need to update dbus anyway :)
[11:11] <pitti> sjoerd: I just saw the patch; doesn't look too scary
[11:12] <sjoerd> that's from dbus cvs, so should be ok
[11:12] <sjoerd> pitti: to what version of g-v-m are you upgrading
[11:12] <pitti> sjoerd: I did not yet look at that
[11:12] <pitti> sjoerd: I want to prepare and test hal and dbus first
[11:13] <sjoerd> pitti: i've got a gvm 1.0.2 package mostly ready with patch to work with hal 0.2.98
[11:13] <pitti> seb128: do we need a newer g-v-m for nautilus-cd-burner locking?
[11:13] <sjoerd> pitti: you probably want the patch from the g-v-m development branch to not do stuff on locked drives
[11:14] <pitti> sjoerd: definitively, that's the sole reason why we do all this upgrading hell during deep freeze :-/
[11:14] <sjoerd> hehe
[11:15] <sjoerd> pitti: http://luon.net/~sjoerd/hal/gvm-1.0.2/ 
[11:15] <sjoerd> same as for hal, not completely finished needs some testing
[11:15] <pitti> sjoerd: today it took me the whole day to (partly) overcome the implications of a bugfix release of gnome-vfs; so I'm hesitant about new upstream releases...
[11:15] <sjoerd> and doesn't contain the locking patch..
[11:17] <lamont> Kamion: sleeping?
[11:17] <pitti> sjoerd: oh, nice, my hal-cdspeed patch already made it into your version :-)
[11:17] <sjoerd> pitti: about 2 min. after you posted it :)
[11:18] <pitti> sjoerd: what took you so long :-)
[11:18] <sjoerd> fetchmail only gets my mail every five minutes ;)
[11:18] <pitti> sjoerd: ugh, my hal's diff.gz is 177 KB, your's 12 kb. Let's see...
[11:20] <sjoerd> pitti: a lot of the patches i saw in your hal, where already fixed upstream for some time
[11:20] <elmo> gar
[11:20] <elmo> npmccallum: Replaces: not Conflicts for simple file overwrites
[11:21] <pitti> sjoerd: I know, 5 of the 10 are from me :-)
[11:21] <sjoerd> pitti: g-v-m contains not mount just everything on startup. If your going to use that, i don't know if it's going to make it upstream (almost zero reaction on the list)
[11:21] <sjoerd> but it solves something a lot of people complain about
[11:22] <npmccallum> elmo: ok, I'll make another one
[11:22] <pitti> sjoerd: what do you mean by "not mount just everything on startup"?
[11:22] <npmccallum> elmo: conflicts and replaces? or just replaces?
[11:22] <pitti> sjoerd: I thought it should only mount hotpluggable devices?
[11:22] <pitti> sjoerd: ah, you mean devices that are plugged in during boot?
[11:23] <sjoerd> pitti: gvm upstream tries to mount all volume on startup now
[11:23] <sjoerd> since 0.9.10
[11:24] <elmo> npmccallum: just replaces for file overwrites
[11:25] <npmccallum> did you deny the current one?
[11:25] <elmo> no?
[11:26] <npmccallum> ok
[11:26] <elmo> I only process stuff when it's NEW.. I was just catching up on bugzilla spam
[11:35] <lamont> mdz: oh man of much vim joyfulnessmaking...
[11:35] <mdz> lamont: hmm?  about to try to find something to eat
[11:35] <lamont> yes or no: gui? gnome=yes. gtk2? kde=no perl? python? ruby? tcl?
[11:35] <lamont> python=y
[11:36] <lamont> that is, do you want anything more than the marriage of vim-python|vim-gnome?
[11:37] <lamont> and would you like a vim-debian package?
[11:37] <thom> score. powerprefs and gtkpbbuttons both right first time
[11:38] <elmo> can we get one of those in supported if not desktop?
[11:38] <lamont> elmo: vim-debian?
[11:38] <elmo> no, powerprefs/gtkpbbuttons
[11:40] <elmo> exepcting new users to deal with pbbuttonsd.conf is a bit harsh
[11:44] <sjoerd> pitti: your doing pmount too right ?
[11:44] <pitti> sjoerd: yes
[11:44] <sjoerd> pitti: are you planning to put it in debian ?
[11:44] <pitti> sjoerd: probably, if I find time for it
[11:45] <pitti> sjoerd: I should file an ITP for discussion first
[11:45] <pitti> sjoerd: but I don't want to do this before sarge
[11:47] <lamont> hrm.. vim-python says --enable-gui=gtk2, and vim-gnome says --enable-gui=gnome2
[11:47] <sjoerd> some discussion about how to do things in debian would be nice (pmount vs. fstab-sync).. But that's indeed definately sarge+1 stuff
[11:50] <azeem> lamont: I don't think there's a big difference between gui=gtk2 and gui=gnome
[11:51] <azeem> gvim from vim-gnome looks plain ugly and definetely not GNOMEish
[11:51] <azeem> (at least on unstable)
[11:52] <azeem> gvim from vim-python looks exactly the same
[11:53] <azeem> ah no - the GNOME version has a detachable toolbar ;)
[11:55] <thom> mdz: that apache2 advisory requires no action from us