[12:00] <tvon> aes: some sort of advanced pipeline setup would be neato, though in most cases you shouldnt need it
[12:00] <bdale> lamont: no frozen bubble in the default load?  ;-)
[12:00] <tvon> heh
[12:00] <aes> tvon: I'd really prefer a drop down box where you could just choose your sound card by real name. I think there's something in the works for gnome 2.10 actually.
[12:01] <eazel7> hi hawke
[12:01] <xcasex> question is the initrd problem known on i386 and ppc?
[12:02] <tvon> aes: I do wish I didnt have to screw with alsa or oss or whatever else there is.  Mostly things have worked out of the box for me lately though, with the exceptio of this bttv/alsa problem
[12:02] <tvon> aes: and its true an average user shouldnt have to know/care what alsa/oss/esd are
[12:03] <tvon> so, I agree with you :)
[12:03] <xcasex> the installer errors out when installing initrd-tools 
 :)
[12:06] <hawke> LeeColleton: It's a blue&white g3, not a PC...and it finds the ethernet fine when I load the module manually ('modprobe bmac') or in expert mode.  It just doesn't find it without that help.
[12:11] <punkasss> anyone know if u can block select something in gedit?
[12:12] <xcasex> okay, anyone with a gui running that can check the -devel/-user lists for info pertaining to my .. problem?
[12:13] <hawke> punkasss: "block select"?
[12:13] <punkasss> hawke: like selecting vertical without selecting the whole line
[12:13] <punkasss> just a section of it
[12:13] <punkasss> comes in very handy sometimes
[12:16] <[Fry] > The updates of ubuntu main, are free of bugs? are the change to the next release bit a bit?, te security packages, are for CD packages, for main source, for restricted source?
[12:16] <[Fry] > sorry my bad english :-)
[12:16] <punkasss> gedit...looks very promising...there are still a few more features it could have...
[12:16] <Keybuk> thom: ping?
[12:16] <punkasss> in windows i use Editplus...and it does almost everything i need
[12:17] <tbone> [Fry] : no, they aren't necessarily bug free and yes they are getting ready for the release next month of warty
[12:17] <Keybuk> ~$ mozilla-firefox
[12:17] <Keybuk> selected locale: en-US
[12:17] <Keybuk> *** nsExtensionManager::_disableObsoleteExtensions - failure, catching exception so finalize window can close
[12:17] <Keybuk> *** loading the extensions datasource
[12:17] <Keybuk> *** ExtensionManager:_updateManifests: no access privileges to application directory, skipping.
[12:17] <Keybuk> ^ Unhappy :-(
[12:18] <punkasss> but there doesnt seem to be anything like editplus for linux.  jedit..never really liked it.
[12:19] <[Fry] > tbone, thx, and the security packages... are only for warty CD release? or for main source too and restricted too?
[12:19] <tbone> [Fry] : That, I'm not sure of, sorry
[12:19] <Qerub> punkasss: gvim! :)
[12:19] <[Fry] > tbone, ok :-)
[12:20] <punkasss> oh yeah?
[12:20] <punkasss> hmm let me check it out
[12:25] <LinuxJones> evening everyone !!
[12:25] <crimsun> 'lo
[12:25] <mako> LinuxJones: hey
[12:25] <tbone> yo
[12:28] <grant937> hello LinuxJones
[12:30] <LinuxJones> It's quite here tonight.
[12:31] <mako> LinuxJones: yeah, it's been uncharacteristically quiet all day :)
[12:31] <mako> LinuxJones: enjoy it while you can, i'm sure that will be fixed soon enough :)
[12:32] <tbone> everyone is playing with thier ubuntu :P
[12:32] <LinuxJones> mako, well it's Friday (here anyways) and folks are doing other things I guess :D
[12:32] <LinuxJones> tbone, with a name like that I dunno if you should have said that :P
[12:33] <tbone> LinuxJones: why do you think I did, heh
[12:33] <LinuxJones> :D
[12:34] <LinuxJones> There is so much buzz about Ubunto I think that there will be 400 people ideling in this channel within a month.
[12:34] <tbone> it's a darn nice distro
[12:35] <tbone> going places says I
[12:35] <LinuxJones> er you know what I ment too many beers 
[12:35] <LinuxJones> I can't wait for the Live CD later this fall that will be very cool
[12:36] <Mithrandir> LinuxJones: or even better -- 400 people talking about it. :)
[12:37] <LinuxJones> Mithrandir, heh good point :)
[12:37] <Curti1> Can anyone give a clue on what to google to get ssh to let me into my new ubuntu installation from a remote network?
[12:38] <Keybuk> Curti1: install ssh-server
[12:38] <Keybuk> either using synaptic (on the System Configuration menu) or apt/aptitude/your favourite poision
[12:38] <Curti1> Keybuk: I have.  I can can log in from my local net.  I cannot login from outside my local net.
[12:38] <Keybuk> Curti1: is "sshd: ALL" in /etc/hosts.allow ?
[12:39] <Curti1> Keybuk: No.  Thanks for the clue
[12:39] <tbone> anyone know how to change the password associated with one's nick on freenode?
[12:40] <mako> LinuxJones: too many beers sounds great
[12:40] <mako> LinuxJones: i should start working on that
[12:40] <lezard> tbone:  /MSG NickServ HELP
[12:41] <Mayday> afaik is there no limit on from what net you can login
[12:41] <punkasss> Qerub...do you have a homepage for gvim?
[12:41] <Mayday> i just installed ssh-server and i can ssh from anywhere at once
[12:41] <LinuxJones> mako, It's a good plan for Friday and has been working for me for the last ....I dunno....20 years :D
[12:43] <Mayday> Curti1: what does it say when the ssh fail?
[12:43] <AP> i cant see a shared smb printer on another windows box, what is responsible for the auto-detection?
[12:43] <Curti1> Mayday: -v shows connection timed out.
[12:43] <Mayday> Curti1: and you can ssh to other dists from outside?
[12:44] <Curti1> Mayday: I can change the route to route ssh to another machine ans it works.  I can always get into the ubuntu machine from an inside machine.
[12:45] <LinuxJones> Mayday: you have a Iptables allowing ssh traffic ??
[12:46] <LinuxJones> Mayday: from outside your lan ?
[12:46] <Mayday> no, but im not the one with problem :)
[12:46] <LinuxJones> Mayday: oops sorry Curti1 , heh
[12:46] <Mayday> :-)
[12:46] <cardador> ahah the beer is starting to go to your head
[12:47] <LinuxJones> Mayday: I need another beer....NOT
[12:49] <Mayday> bah, pop another you, it will do you good
[12:49] <Mayday> s/you/one
[12:50] <LinuxJones> :)
[12:51] <lifeless> jdub: what did you need to do to configure polypaudio ?
[12:52] <Curti1> LinuxJones: I cannot quite tell if it is iptables, but I think you are on to the problem.  There is no log of me attempting to log on via ssh from the remote machine.
[12:53] <rancoras>  /msg nickserv link tbone mrclark2
[12:53] <Mayday> Kurtis_dinner: and your router is configured 100% correctly?
[12:56] <LinuxJones> Curti1: Your trying to connect to the correct server/ip # ??
[12:57] <Mayday> ubuntu and installed ssh-server doesnt check source net... it must another problem (afaik)
[12:57] <Kurtis_dinner> LinuxJones: I'm trying to connect to my home network from www.gnome.org.  When I set the router to forward port 22 to my fedora computer, I get in.  When I set it to forward to my ubuntu computer, the connection times out.
[12:59] <Kurtis_dinner> LinuxJones: I'm think this is _not_ an ssh problem for a routing/firewall problem after seeing the logs.  I'm going to eat and try another approach.
[12:59] <LinuxJones> Kurtis_dinner, are you able to ping the ubuntu server ?
[12:59] <LinuxJones> Kurtis_dinner, ok gl
[01:02] <LinuxJones> My powerbar is making horrible sounds when my tv displays anything white....Tiem for a new powerbar :D
[01:02] <dieman> so
[01:02] <dieman> im going to set up a autobuilder this weekend for the first time i think.
[01:03] <dieman> i want to start autobuilding marriliat's archive for our own use and share whatever i can legally  share.
[01:05] <[Fry] > what fonts go by default in Ubuntu CD normal install?
[01:06] <[Fry] > Anybody can see which fonts go by default in Ubuntu?
[01:06] <[Fry] > because i install from custom, and install gnome with apt-get, and i think that it isnt the same fonts
[01:06] <[Fry] > i try all fonts here
[01:07] <psi> it's the bitstream fonts
[01:08] <[Fry] > psi, wich?
[01:08] <[Fry] > psi, bitstream sans...
[01:08] <[Fry] > i see strange this font in custom install
[01:14] <adrian23> Would one be correct in assuming that the package lists for main & restricted will only be known when the distro is officially released in October?
[01:17] <tvon> if there is something you want in there, send a note to the dev list...I think thats the procedure
[01:18] <adrian23> more curious than anything specific.
[01:18] <adrian23> This distro has a lot of promise
[01:19] <tvon> Yeah, I'm pretty happy with it myself
[01:21] <adrian23> Is it unique in disabling the root user? I do know they've done this in macosx, but this is the first I've seen it linux.
[01:21] <adrian23> I'm not running it yet,
[01:21] <theantix> first time I've seen in on linux... but it works quite well
[01:21] <adrian23> but I'll try the official release coming soon
[01:22] <tvon> adrian23: its pretty unique, and yes it also works well
[01:22] <Mitario> nite everyone
[01:23] <psi> [Fry] , yes, sans
[01:23] <[Fry] > psi, thx
[01:26] <robertj> Hey all, anyone want to here a rant against something that few have ranted about before?
[01:26] <tseng> robertj: huh?
[01:26] <robertj> It's a good one I promise ;)
[01:27] <robertj> The save as command should not be enabled by default
[01:27] <azeem> which save as command in particular?
[01:28] <chutwig> i fail to see exactly what that would accomplish
[01:28] <robertj> azeem: all of them
[01:28] <robertj> chutwig: it would keep people from, err, casually creating new files.
[01:28] <chutwig> your idea is somewhat lacking
[01:29] <adrian23> I'd have thought it would be better to have the save function disabled for a new file, but the save as function enabled.
[01:29] <robertj> Yes, its lacking a save as menu
[01:29] <chutwig> how would you propose letting somebody save a new copy of a file, then?
[01:29] <adrian23> Once a file's been saved, then you should be able to save it as something else.
[01:29] <azeem> robertj: so you would introduce an rcs to keep track of the changes?
[01:30] <jomohke_> Anyone know where I can buy a thinkpad in syndey? jdub?
[01:30] <chutwig> yeah, instead of keeping things simple, let's make them insanely complex and liable to break
[01:30] <robertj> azeem: exactly
[01:31] <robertj> even if it was just checking out a file that was "keep only most recent copy"
[01:31] <azeem> I think somebody wrote about something similar on desktop-devel-list a while ago
[01:31] <robertj> although d-d-l is not the place for it
[01:32] <azeem> well, #ubuntu probably neither :)
[01:32] <robertj> but this is ranting
[01:32] <robertj> if you don't want random ranting, become a listserv hermit ;)
[01:33] <azeem> oh, I forgot 
[01:37] <tvon> There is no way to get to gstreamer-properties via the menu that I know of
[01:37] <tvon> (random comment)
[01:37] <robertj> tvon: intentional
[01:37] <tvon> robertj: ah
[01:39] <tvon> also, I noticed there is no services configuration for g-s-t, was this removed?
[01:42] <chutwig> yeah, it's out right now
[01:42] <chutwig> i imagine it'll make its way back in eventually
[01:42] <tvon> For a default install its probably preferred to not have it I'd think, but anyone who installs extra things they want running at startup might be annoyed
[01:42] <chutwig> if you really want it back you could get the debian experimental deb
[01:43] <chutwig> i think there needs to be a little more lockdown on services
[01:43] <chutwig> i can't think of any real reason for an end-user to be running an MTA, for example
[01:43] <tvon> yeah, thats the sorta thing I was thinking about
[01:43] <chutwig> it should probably be disabled by default, really
[01:44] <tvon> besides which, most of the time if someone installs an extra "service" based package, chances are they want it running on boot and we can manage it
[01:44] <WW> I'm trying to run a commercial program (Maple) that I know work in another Debian distro based with kernel 2.4.21.  When I run it, I get:
[01:44] <chutwig> tvon: right
[01:44] <WW>  /usr/local/maple_su/bin.IBM_INTEL_LINUX/maplew: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[01:45] <chutwig> WW: do ls /usr/lib/libstdc*
[01:45] <WW>  /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5  /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.5.0.7
[01:45] <chutwig> you need to get another libstdc package
[01:46] <chutwig> i forget its name, but i think it's under base system in synaptic
[01:46] <chutwig> if it's not there, search for libstdc and look for the one labelled version 6
[01:48] <chutwig> i think linux needs some aesthetic love in general
[01:48] <WW> chutwig: apt-cache search shows a libstdc++5 and libstdc++6.  So it might be as easy as installing libstdc++6?
[01:48] <tvon> No offense to anyone involved, but the default GDM theme looks like poop..literally..nasty poop all over the background :-D
[01:48] <chutwig> WW: yeah, try that
[01:48] <tvon> IMO and all of course
[01:48] <tvon> bugzilla aint too perdy either
[01:48] <chutwig> tvon: i agree, beige isn't the best color
[01:48] <chutwig> it's not even beige, it's like "i ate a whole lot of cheap indian food at 2 AM last night"
[01:49] <WW> chutwig: Thanks, I'll try it in a bit. I'm upgrading now, and OpenOffice is big.
[01:49] <chutwig> that it is
[01:49] <tvon> chutwig: hah, exactly
[01:49] <chutwig> tvon: i think in general linux suffers from a major lack of good administration tools
[01:49] <tvon> I dont care for the gtk theme brown either...I think indubstrial looks great with the default watermark background/color though
[01:50] <chutwig> there's too much of an attitude of "the user should learn the command line if there's not a GUI tool for it"
[01:50] <tvon> chutwig: I agree.  I generally really like the fedora-system tools though
[01:50] <tvon> chutwig: yeah
[01:50] <chutwig> i mean, i think it's quite possible to make unix and unix-like systems friendly enough that you never have to touch a terminal
[01:50] <chutwig> my normal computer is a testament to that
[01:51] <WW> chutwig: Speaking of admin tools, I was asking here earlier if there is a GUI for editing/maintaining cupsd.conf.  Apparently not.
[01:51] <robertj> chat: *ahem* OS X
[01:51] <robertj> err chut
[01:51] <chutwig> robertj: i'm a full-time mac user
[01:51] <chutwig> it's my only computer, really
[01:52] <chutwig> WW: there's the gnome cups tool, but i don't know what it lets you do
[01:52] <robertj> I'm a part time mac user. I get payed to use Mac. It's OK
[01:52] <chutwig> i guess not what you want it to do :)
[01:52] <tvon> heh
[01:52] <robertj> Silly line endings ;)
[01:52] <WW> chutwig: I haven't seen anything that lets configure browsing, for example.
[01:52] <chutwig> that line ending crap is a relic of previous versions
[01:53] <chutwig> it's going the way of resource forks
[01:53] <lichte> anyone have any luck installing ubuntu warty?
[01:53] <chutwig> i hate resource forks
[01:53] <azeem> WW: does gnome-cups-manager not do what you want?
[01:53] <robertj> chut: me too
[01:54] <WW> azeem: Well, I'll give it a try and find out!  Thanks.
[01:54] <robertj> Half my icons have the default icon
[01:54] <chutwig> tvon: i like the graphical greeter that has the list of names on the left-side XP-style
[01:54] <azeem> tvon: the ubuntu crowd said the artwork is preliminary
[01:54] <robertj> I hope the brown goes
[01:54] <robertj> other than that I'm fine
[01:54] <robertj> or at least gets darker
[01:54] <tvon> azeem: yeah, I know.  I'm not sure if there is something in mind or not though, so perhaps I can help by providing something :)
[01:54] <chutwig> i think that it would make a good default ubuntu gdm theme with the ubuntu logo replacing the gnome logo and maybe some color changes
[01:55] <tvon> chutwig: tis called the face browser, and yeah I generally like it too (when there is more than one user for the system and they have actually provided login photos)
[01:55] <chutwig> yeah
[01:55] <chutwig> eventually i expect the system configuration stuff on first boot will be replaced with GUI stuff and then you can properly set up  users that way
[01:55] <chutwig> maybe find some free stock artwork and throw it in there for photos like what apple does with OS X
[01:55] <robertj> maybe I will go to my ubuntu box and dig around for the artwork ;)
[01:56] <lichte> the base install doesn't work for me
[01:56] <chutwig> free and public domain stock art, that is
[01:56] <tvon> yeah, thats a debian-installer thing  (gtk frontend) that I know some people are interested in
[01:56] <tvon> hrm
[01:56] <chutwig> lichte: we need more information to help you than "it doesn't work"
[01:56] <lichte> chutwig, sure.  It crashes on the initrd package
[01:56] <chutwig> what sort of crash?
[01:56] <chutwig> kernel panic?
[01:56] <lichte> no nothing like that
[01:57] <lichte> a dependency problem
[01:57] <lichte> hold on, I'm waiting for it to happen again
[01:57] <chutwig> installing from a CD, right?
[01:57] <lichte> yes
[01:57] <lichte> I just dl'd it
[01:57] <chutwig> you might want to md5sum the ISO you burned from
[01:57] <lichte> k
[01:57] <chutwig> or re-burn it
[01:57] <WW> azeem: Ah, I that gnome-cups-manager is just the name of the program run by Computer->System Configuration->Printing.  It doesn't configure browsing.
[01:57] <WW> s/I that/I see that/
[01:57] <chutwig> could be a corrupted image or a botched burn
[01:58] <lichte> ok
[01:58] <lichte> hmmm
[01:58] <chutwig> if you downloaded the i386 ISO, your md5 should be 9750df59b73428b68e681c3c44b31ff5
[01:58] <lichte> virtual console 3 says "initrd-tools is already the newest version"
[01:59] <lichte> and then it spits out a ton of unmet dependencies lines
[01:59] <lichte> all libraries
[01:59] <lichte> mostly gnome libraries
[01:59] <chutwig> that happened to me when the hard drive in my junk computer blew up halfway through the install
[02:00] <lichte> this is a brand new computer
[02:00] <lichte> I'll try it on another computer
[02:00] <chutwig> not saying the computer is at fault, but you'd be surprised
[02:00] <lichte> I know what you mean
[02:00] <truk-away> check md5 before on iso downloaded
[02:00] <lichte> well, I'm in a lab with 17 computers
[02:00] <lichte> how can I check md5 on XP?
[02:01] <chutwig> there are probably little utilities floating around to do it
[02:01] <lichte> k
[02:01] <lichte> well, I'll try a different box firs
[02:01] <lichte> t
[02:01] <azeem> WW: what do you mean with browsing?
[02:02] <chutwig> he might mean browsing for network printers
[02:02] <chutwig> that's what i assume, at least
[02:02] <WW> Right.
[02:02] <azeem> ah
[02:02] <tvon> brb
[02:02] <azeem> I believe the RedHat guys are working on this, but this is probably too late for warty
[02:03] <chutwig> i don't think CUPS and samba talk to each other too much
[02:03] <chutwig> i don't know exactly how OS X solves that problem
[02:04] <truk-away> it's easy to configure cups in a network
[02:04] <truk-away> just try http://host-of-printer:631
[02:04] <truk-away> look for url of printer
[02:04] <truk-away> and put it on your cups-gnome-printer settings
[02:04] <chutwig> probably turns it over to the generic browsing services and then just returns that data to CUPS at the end
[02:05] <WW> truk-away: Actually, I think it is supposed to be even easier than that, and it probably it.  When I turned on browser on my client computer, and restarted cups, it detected the remote printer automatically.
[02:06] <WW> My god, I need a poof reader.
[02:06] <WW> proof*
[02:06] <truk-away> WW: umm, write about it, please, in wiki it will be wonderful for newbies
[02:06] <WW> truk-away: But I haven't got it to completely work yet, and I don't know why.
[02:07] <WW> truk-away: I get errors when I try to use the printer.
[02:07] <lichte> it crashes on the other box too
[02:07] <truk-away> WW: ah, so i don't know, i did like i said here and works perfect
[02:08] <lichte> I think these dependency problems are for vim
[02:08] <truk-away> lichte: have you checked md5 ?
[02:08] <lichte> would vim require gnome libs?
[02:08] <lichte> truk-away, no
[02:08] <lichte> truk-away, I need to find a way to check it using XP
[02:08] <truk-away> lichte: do it, and try installing without upgrades
[02:08] <lichte> truk-away, is there a way to do that?
[02:08] <lichte> truk-away, a command line option?
[02:08] <truk-away> lichte: don't know, i don't use windows
[02:09] <lichte> I mean intalling without upgrades
[02:09] <lichte> yeah, I don't either
[02:09] <LinuxJones> lichte, vim does not require gnome
[02:10] <truk-away> yes, it asks you if you want to upgrade
[02:10] <truk-away> don't configure network or say no to upgrades
[02:10] <azeem> lichte: there's an issue with vim at the moment, dunno if it's resolved, see bugzilla
[02:10] <truk-away> lichte: install it with ethernet wire out
[02:11] <lichte> azeem, ah, thats it
[02:11] <lichte> azeem, thanks
[02:11] <lichte> truk-away, ok, thanks
[02:11] <truk-away> np
[02:15] <lichte> I'm still getting the vim error
[02:15] <lichte> I'll read bugzilla
[02:16] <lichte> hmmm, nothing there
[02:19] <lichte> maybe I should dl the iso from somewhere else.
[02:20] <lichte> I got it from the UK mirror
[02:20] <lichte> it was the fastest
[02:20] <azeem> oh, so the install fails?
[02:21] <azeem> is this the prerelease iso, or a daily one?
[02:21] <bolivar> any thoughts on why the spell checker doesnt work?
[02:21] <lichte> azeem, it's warty
[02:21] <lichte> I'm not sure what the version is
[02:22] <lichte> vim wants gnome libs installed
[02:22] <azeem> well, can you install it? Do you get to the desktop?
[02:22] <lichte> nope
[02:22] <lichte> it barfs on the base install
[02:24] <lichte> I dl'd the Ubuntu 4.10 "The Warty Warthog"
[02:25] <azeem> lichte: check #834
[02:25] <lichte> k
[02:26] <azeem> lichte: best to post to ubuntu-users with an exact error message and saying you did an install
[02:26] <lichte> ok
[02:28] <lichte> is there a newer iso I can get?
[02:28] <lichte> looks like they may have fixed this
[02:28] <lichte> oh, it was fixed today
[02:28] <azeem> not sure
[02:29] <lichte> probably not then
[02:29] <lichte> bummage
[02:30] <lichte> thanks all
[03:17] <gangas> hi, i dont have internet connection with ubuntu, what is the best way to install development software like gcc,gdb,make,gtk2-dev etc
[03:22] <crimsun> sudo apt-get install build-essential
[03:22] <crimsun> then if you want to build a package 'something', first do: sudo apt-get build-dep something
[03:24] <gangas> crimsun: and that can be done offline...right?
[03:24] <Kurtis> Does ubuntu install and startup a firewall?
[03:24] <Kosai> No, but it doesn't run any network daemons.
[03:27] <LinuxJones> Kosai, what you mean ?
[03:28] <Mayday> he means that a firewall isnt needed since there arent anything open to allow/block access to?
[03:28] <Kosai> Yup.
[03:29] <LinuxJones> Mayday, so postix and cups an all other services only listen on local lan ? 
[03:29] <Kosai> If you're clueful enough to be installing your own services, you're clueful enough to work out that you need a firewall for them.
[03:29] <Kosai> LinuxJones: postfix doesn't accept random mail for other sites, so there's no need to firewall it.
[03:30] <Mayday> well postfix only listens on 127.0.0.1
[03:31] <Mayday> try: netstat -an|grep LISTEN|grep -i tcp
[03:31] <Mayday> or maybe egrep -i "tcp|udp"
[03:31] <Mayday> only thing listening on my ubuntu is 111 (portmap)
[03:32] <LinuxJones> Mayday, I don't run any services like postix netstat -tap is empty
[03:33] <Kurtis> kosai: I installed sshd.  I can connect via a machine on the same subnet, but I cannot connect to a machine from the intranet.  I can connect to a Fedora machine if I tell my router to forward port 22 to it.  I think Ubuntu is blocking all extra-net traffic because there is no log off my attempt to connect.
[03:33] <Kurtis> kosai: I installed sshd.  I can connect via a machine on the same subnet, but I cannot connect to a machine from the *internet*.  I can connect to a Fedora machine if I tell my router to forward port 22 to it.  I think Ubuntu is blocking all extra-net traffic because there is no log off my attempt to connect.
[03:34] <Mayday> can you connect to any other ports on the box from outside?
[03:35] <Kurtis> Mayday: I'm about to test.
[03:36] <Mayday> if the ubuntu is the machine your irc'in from all ports betveen 1 and 100 are filtered, you are sure that router of yours isnt the problem?
[03:37] <Kurtis> Mayday: My router only forwards 80 and 22.  I'm going to start a httpd on Ubuntu to see if that works.
[03:42] <Kosai> Kurtis: I've also installed sshd, and can get to my ubuntu machine from the public net.
[03:43] <Kurtis> Kosai: show off.
[03:43] <Mayday> same here, no problems with default install
[03:43] <Kosai> Not showing off, just telling you that your firewall theory is bogus.
[03:43] <Kurtis> Thanks.  
[03:44] <stratus> Is there a log with the diff between daily cd images and the preview release?
[03:46] <jdub> stratus: you could read the warty-changes list between those dates :_)
[03:46] <stratus> jdub, :(
[03:46] <jdub> hey, that's a good changelog :-)
[03:47] <stratus> url?
[03:51] <bolivar> anyone have satellite isp?
[03:53] <jsubl2> bolivar, fixed wireless.  if that is what you mean yes
[03:54] <bolivar> jsubl2: i was referring to a direct tv type of satellite
[03:55] <jsubl2> bolivar, oh  not me then
[03:56] <jdub> stratus: lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/warty-changes
[03:56] <stratus> jdub, oic. i'll spend some hours there, but thanks. :)
[03:57] <tseng> lo jdub 
[03:57] <stratus> jdub, btw what's the deal with 'ubuntu in a nutshell booklet' ? 
[03:57] <jdub> one sec
[04:22] <LinuxJones> night all sleepy time !!
[04:28] <Kurtis> I suspect my ssh misadventures ties back to the NIC problems I had during setup.  eth0 is not using resolv.conf.
[04:30] <Kurtis> What do I have to kick to make sure eth0 uses resolve.conf.  eth1, if I manually assign the essid will use resolve.conf.
[04:30] <tseng> dhclient doesnt write /etc/resolv.conf here
[04:30] <tseng> had to write my own
[04:30] <Kurtis> tseng: eth0 is a fixed ip.  It is my DMZ box.
[04:30] <lamont> bdale: I _TRIED_ to get f-b or kobo into the desktop seed, but it didn't happen..
[04:31] <sidney> i have a quick question... how can i change the default sound device?
[04:32] <sidney> i have usb sound... and laptop speakers
[04:32] <sidney> i want to use usb sound
[04:34] <sidney> any ideas?
[04:40] <sidney> yeah... well... thanks for ALL the help
[04:48] <ubunchap> any idea why mono is not at 1.0 in warty?
[04:50] <tseng> ubunchap: 
[04:50] <tseng>  deb http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs ./
[04:50] <ubunchap> thanks tseng 
[04:50] <tseng> nps
[04:56] <jdub> tseng: we have to get those in :-)
[04:56] <jdub> tseng: do you have source packages?
[04:56] <jdub> tseng: or are they easily synced, unchanged, from sid?
[04:56] <ubunchap> tseng: pkgs are good :) thanks a lot
[04:57] <tseng> jdub: unchanged, with the notes i listed on the universe wiki
[04:57] <tseng> jdub: applied a patch (by hand) to monodevelop, fixed upstream in 0.5.1 now
[04:57] <tseng> jdub: and had to install mono binary first
[04:57] <tseng> chicken-in-egg
[04:58] <tseng> oh and muine depends on mono-mint
[04:58] <jdub> tseng: ok, we should get this sorted out in universe :)
[04:58] <tseng> which doesnt get build on x86
[04:58] <tseng> so i did dpkg-buildpkg -rfakeroot -d
[04:58] <tseng> ignoring the silly dep
[04:58] <tseng> jdub: yes, we should :)
[04:58] <tseng> how can I help
[04:59] <bolivar> hmmm i dont know if an update removed the trash...or me changing icon themes...but its gone...any thoughts?
[04:59] <tseng> bolivar: ive seen it crash silently when changing themes, try readding it
[05:00] <bolivar> ok readded and changed border and icons....its ok this time
[05:00] <bolivar> thanks
[05:01] <bolivar> you know after all these updates...thats the first thing that ever went 'wrong'.  if that isnt a good sign i dont know what is
[05:02] <ubunchap> are eclipse, java and the like in .seb form as well?
[05:02] <ubunchap> .deb*
[05:05] <george_> anyone have another repo other than debian-marillat for media stuff?
[05:13] <chutwig> is there a way to enumerate motherboard temperature sensors?
[05:15] <TongMaster> hrm, no modconf in Ubuntu?
[05:19] <jdub> TongMaster: echo blahblah >> /etc/modules
[05:20] <Kurtis> Does anyone know id Ubuntu can detect a winmodem and install a driver?
[05:23] <TongMaster> ta jdub :)
[05:24] <jdub> Kurtis: not at the moment
[05:25] <Kurtis> jdub: thanks.  I was just asking for a friend,
[05:41] <LeeColleton> I've connected a USB webcam that registered as /dev/video according to dmesg, yet it won't open with GnomeMeeting or any other webcam program.  The device is a SN9C10[12]  PC Camera Controller.  Any ideas?
[05:42] <chutwig> man
[05:42] <chutwig> this computer is ancient but just refuses to die
[05:43] <chutwig> quite remarkable
[05:45] <Kurtis> I'm using a undead computer myself.
[05:45] <chutwig> it's a p2-266 at 300 mhz right now
[05:45] <chutwig> seeing how far the processor can go
[05:46] <JanneM> chutwig: is ubuntu usable on it?
[05:46] <chutwig> sure
[05:46] <JanneM> how much memory?
[05:46] <chutwig> 256 megs
[05:46] <JanneM> ok
[05:46] <JanneM> hm
[05:47] <JanneM> perhaps note it in the wiki?
[05:47] <JanneM> as a datapoint for others wondering what hardware they need an so
[05:47] <chutwig> what for?
[05:47] <chutwig> ah
[05:47] <chutwig> i wouldn't recommend people have only a computer like this
[05:47] <chutwig> but it gets the job done
[05:47] <linux_mafia> anyone got lm-sensors working?
[05:48] <JanneM> with any tweaks you've done to the system for better performance
[05:48] <ubunchap> linux_mafia: im trying gdesklets now...
[05:48] <chutwig> i changed the multiplier and am running prime95 torture test for it to blow up
[05:48] <chutwig> it hasn't yet
[05:48] <JanneM> heh
[05:48] <Kurtis> chutwig: I'm at 200 Mhz, 96M, a dead battery, and a paper clip is keeping the ether in jack.
[05:48] <chutwig> Kurtis: this computer is in slightly better shape :)
[05:48] <JanneM> a good performace tip is probably not to run evo, phoenix and ooffice at the same time
[05:49] <chutwig> nah, they run fine
[05:49] <JanneM> at the same time?
[05:49] <chutwig> just expect your music to skip around a bit
[05:49] <chutwig> sure
[05:49] <JanneM> ok
[05:49] <chutwig> i've done it
[05:49] <JanneM> hm
[05:49] <chutwig> it's also not going to do so well at any non-complex movies, but i've watched futurama episodes on it
[05:49] <JanneM> I'd expect quite a bit of "seizing up" whenever you switch from one to another
[05:49] <Kurtis> JanneM: I've learned never to run oo.o and expect performance.
[05:49] <chutwig> yeah, OOO sucks
[05:50] <chutwig> JanneM: nah, it floats pretty well
[05:50] <JanneM> interesting
[05:50] <chutwig> even better with an extra few megahertz
[05:50] <JanneM> I'm about to buy an 1.1Ghz Pentium M so I'm a bit curious
[05:50] <JanneM> but if your machine still handles gnome with no problem there is nothign to worry about
[05:50] <chutwig> that'll be no problem at all, are you kidding
[05:51] <chutwig> the pentium-M is intel's best processor right now
[05:51] <JanneM> once upon a time I ran gnome2 on a P2-233 and 96Mb, and it was fine, though I had to switch to a different email reader and kill off nautilus
[05:51] <JanneM> to avoid swapping
[05:52] <chutwig> damn
[05:52] <chutwig> this computer doesn't have temperature sensors, too old
[05:53] <whiprush> hmm, does universe pick up new sid packages eventually? Or should I file a request, or post on the list?
[05:53] <chutwig> but it's been doing prime95 for half an hour now without any errors
[05:54] <chutwig> i think i'll put it all the way to 333
[05:54] <chutwig> it'll probably error out there
[06:13] <chutwig> the SVG for the ubuntu color palette seems corrupted
[06:15] <linux_mafia> i dont think lm-sensors is a goer :(
[06:17] <J-> What's up in here?  Howdy, Ubuntu-folk!
[06:17] <chutwig> can somebody else try the ubuntu palette SVG and see if it opens for them?
[06:17] <J-> Gentoo user here.  I think I'm going to have to try this new distro I've been hearing everything about!
[06:18] <chutwig> not even sodipodi can manage it
[06:18] <chutwig> oh well, i'll just copy the values into illustrator and compose a palette there
[06:23] <JanneM> J-: welcome!
[06:24] <linux_mafia> chutwig, opens ok for me in sodipodi
[06:24] <chutwig> blows up horribly for me
[06:24] <chutwig> can you export it as something non-SVG?
[06:25] <chutwig> EPS would be good if it's available, i don't know what sodipodi has
[06:25] <linux_mafia> chutwig, try inkscape
[06:26] <chutwig> i prefer to ask you to do things for me :)
[06:26] <chutwig> i only need this one thing, i'm trying to avoid downloading a ton of programs
[06:26] <crimsun> you have the gimp...
[06:26] <chutwig> not on this computer i don't
[06:27] <chutwig> all i'm asking is for somebody to export it to EPS for me
[06:28] <J-> Hello!  I'm getting excited.
[06:28] <crimsun> hello, J- 
[06:28] <chutwig> somebody?  please?
[06:28] <J-> Ubuntu looks very sleek.  And it's designed with laptops in mind. Yay!
[06:29] <Dr_Willis> hmm
[06:30] <JanneM> chutwig: where's the svg file?
[06:30] <chutwig> JanneM: in the wiki under ubuntuartwork
[06:30] <JanneM> J-: it's nice, yes
[06:30] <JanneM> J-: of course, since we are here, it's not too surprising we think so :)
[06:30] <JanneM> chutwig: moment
[06:31] <J-> Weee!
[06:31] <chutwig> gimp.app finally finished cataloguing my fonts
[06:31] <chutwig> GTK on OS X is a whole lot of not-fun
[06:31] <JanneM> chutwig: what, exactly do you need?
[06:31] <J-> I'm a bit worried about the CD though.  When I loaded the other one I burned, it didn't work so well.  Glitchy boot screen and the install gave me a blank screen.
[06:31] <linux_mafia> chutwig, i'll do it in a mo, if JanneM doesn't svg to eps is non trivial
[06:32] <chutwig> JanneM: for you to convert the SVG to EPS
[06:32] <chutwig> the palette, not the logo, the logo SVG parses fine for me
[06:32] <JanneM> chutwig: why not just convert the png?
[06:32] <chutwig> raster to vector?
[06:32] <JanneM> ok
[06:32] <chutwig> that doesn't work so well
[06:32] <JanneM> I don't know the reason you want it, sorry
[06:34] <linux_mafia> chutwig, what do you want me to do with the eps, dcc?
[06:34] <JanneM> chutwig: you want the original text or converted to paths?
[06:34] <chutwig> linux_mafia: we can try DCC
[06:34] <chutwig> JanneM: hang on, we'll see if linux_mafia has it
[06:34] <JanneM> ok
[06:34] <chutwig> 5.81 megs?  that's big
[06:35] <JanneM> 605k for me
[06:35] <chutwig> illustrator's going to have fun with this one
[06:35] <JanneM> probably the text thing
[06:35] <linux_mafia> used imagemagick convert, im no graphics guru, maybe ive done it the stupid way
[06:35] <chutwig> it probably doesn't optimize it much
[06:35] <JanneM> it probably generates all text as vector graphics as well
[06:36] <JanneM> chutwig: send the smaller one?
[06:36] <chutwig> that still shouldn't make it that large
[06:36] <chutwig> since fonts themselves are represented as vectors and they're not very big
[06:36] <JanneM> sorry - 60k is the one I generated
[06:36] <chutwig> okay, why not send it
[06:38] <JanneM> working?
[06:38] <chutwig> says it's waiting for the transfer to start
[06:38] <JanneM> hm
[06:38] <chutwig> my irc client's probably stupid and does transfers sequentially
[06:38] <JanneM> hate my network
[06:38] <JanneM> ok
[06:39] <chutwig> nah, it seems to think there's a connection problem
[06:39] <JanneM> mm
[06:39] <JanneM> I get that problem at times
[06:39] <JanneM> hold on
[06:41] <JanneM> http://lucs.lu.se/people/jan.moren/log/ubuntu-palette.eps
[06:42] <chutwig> borka borka bork
[06:42] <JanneM> ?
[06:42] <chutwig> fonts got kind of botched, but the colors look good
[06:43] <JanneM> ok
[06:43] <chutwig> thanks
[06:43] <JanneM> I can do a version with converted fonts too
[06:43] <chutwig> linux_mafia's version is just about done, i'll look at that
[06:43] <JanneM> ok
[06:43] <linux_mafia> any good?
[06:43] <chutwig> it's going to take illustrator a moment to parse it
[06:44] <chutwig> wow
[06:44] <chutwig> that's pretty zany
[06:44] <chutwig> JanneM: can you do converted fonts?
[06:44] <linux_mafia> was it ok? or borked
[06:44] <chutwig> fonts are also borked, but in a different way
[06:44] <linux_mafia> hmmm
[06:44] <JanneM> will do
[06:45] <bolivar> ok i am tired and could be over looking it...but does 2.8 gnome have the login manager?
[06:45] <linux_mafia> good luck, gotta go to work
[06:45] <chutwig> bolivar: gdm?
[06:45] <bolivar> the tool to config it
[06:45] <chutwig> it's included in ubuntu, yeah
[06:45] <bolivar> i dont see it on the login or in the menu
[06:46] <JanneM> ok, reload it - about 800k this time
[06:46] <bolivar> oh sheesh
[06:46] <bolivar> ok i am really tired
[06:46] <bolivar> i found it
[06:46] <chutwig> i have way too many windows going on right now
[06:46] <JanneM> where?
[06:46] <JanneM> :(
[06:46] <chutwig> that looks a lot better
[06:46] <chutwig> one last request
[06:46] <JanneM> :) I mean
[06:47] <JanneM> ok
[06:47] <chutwig> the right side gets cut off
[06:47] <JanneM> oh
[06:47] <chutwig> if there's an easy way to fix that, please do
[06:47] <chutwig> if you don't already know how, don't worry about it
[06:47] <JanneM> it has it's own "paper" size that's really wide
[06:48] <chutwig> actually, never mind
[06:48] <chutwig> illustrator got it right
[06:48] <JanneM> ok
[06:48] <chutwig> thanks
[06:48] <chutwig> <3
[06:48] <JanneM> np
[06:48] <JanneM> just make some nice artwork for us to enjoy :)
[06:48] <JanneM> if it's not nice, I'll take the file right back ;)
[06:49] <chutwig> time to clean this crap off my desktop and arrange it nicely
[06:51] <chutwig> i was toying with the idea of designing something nice in indesign, a sort of "ubuntu linux in 3 pages kind of thing"
[06:52] <chutwig> the kind of thing you could distribute to system administrators
[07:00] <jdjs_> wow lots of people
[07:01] <Tsjoklat> lol jdjs
[07:01] <Tsjoklat> you decided to leave your slack chan?
[07:06] <Hoochster> Of course theres lots of peeps!  
[07:06] <Hoochster> it's Ubuntu! :)
[07:06] <Tsjoklat> Hoochiepooch :)
[07:06] <Tsjoklat> that's right!
[07:07] <jdjs_> hehe
[07:07] <crimsun> holy
[07:07] <Tsjoklat> even jdjs came
[07:07] <crimsun> haven't /names'd in a while
[07:09] <daniels> crimsun: hello
[07:10] <crimsun> hello daniels 
[07:13] <chutwig> hmm
[07:14] <chutwig> who came up with the ubuntu artwork?
[07:15] <jdjs_> it's phat .. right?
[07:15] <TongMaster> Hey guys, working at in installfest and found some tricky hardware that Ubuntu can see but can't copy files from in D-I but it can from the CLI
[07:15] <Tsjoklat> it says on the wiki chutwig
[07:15] <crimsun> it's quite pretty imo
[07:16] <Tsjoklat> heya Tong :)
[07:16] <tuo2> hey TongMaster..what installfest?
[07:16] <TongMaster> So I'm going to copy to /var/cache/apt/archives but where do I copy from?
[07:16] <TongMaster> heya Tsjoklat
[07:16] <TongMaster> tuo2, SLUG visiting UoW
[07:16] <chutwig> seems to have defied my notice
[07:17] <Tsjoklat> are you on a lap TM?
[07:17] <TongMaster> yep, sony via with an idrive.
[07:18] <Tsjoklat> so far no probs? besides the thing you  mentioned?
[07:18] <TongMaster> not so far - becuase it's early in the install :)
[07:19] <TongMaster> So if I can work out how to manually do the copy, I"ll be fine for this user.
[07:19] <Tsjoklat> ah, very curious to find out how it is going for you
[07:19] <TongMaster> They brought it as an Ubuntu challenge because every other distro failed
[07:19] <TongMaster> *bastars*
[07:19] <TongMaster> *bastards*
[07:19] <Tsjoklat> I think you'll be succesful
[07:20] <TongMaster> I will be if I can work out where to copy from / to
[07:20] <brad[] > Is Ubuntu Linux actually built for i386 machines?
[07:20] <Tsjoklat> it needed some tweaking on my box too but overall I am very happy
[07:20] <daniels> it is built for a minimum of 486, but optimised for pentium 4
[07:21] <brad[] > daniels: Ah ok - is much benefit afforded to Athlon systems by doing that?
[07:21] <daniels> brad[] : i believe so, yes
[07:21] <brad[] > daniels: cool
[07:23] <brad[] > I don't know if this is a loaded question or not but will Ubuntu be adding any support for KDE in the future?
[07:23] <TongMaster> daniels, if I copy /cdrom/pool/main/*/*/*.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/ will that replicate the copy process?
[07:23] <TongMaster> jdub?
[07:23] <ajuko_jdjs> Tsjoklat sleep is winning the battle
[07:24] <ajuko_jdjs> like always
[07:24] <Tsjoklat> lol
[07:25] <joem> brad[] , yea
[07:26] <brad[] > joem: Nice - I think what would be interesting is creating a default KDE environment with a nice, defined set of options, cleaned up toolbars, ordered menus etc, something of a way to show how KDE should look per default 
[07:26] <brad[] > Maybe it'd give upstream some ideas ;)
[07:26] <daniels> TongMaster: i believe so, yeah
[07:26] <TongMaster> okay, I'm copying /cdrom/pool/main/*/*/*.deb /var/cache/apt/archives/
[07:27] <joem> yea,default kde is pretty ugly
[07:32] <clee> heh. that's a hell of an understatement.
[07:33] <chutwig> the main thing i don't like about default KDE is that god-forsaken clock
[07:33] <chutwig> well
[07:33] <chutwig> the computer's been running the prime95 torture test for about 2 hours now without any problems
[07:34] <chutwig> i'd say this processor survived the jump to 300 mhz
[07:39] <tvon|X31> KDE has some things I like, but for the most part I find it overly complicated
[07:40] <Nafai> I have to do very little customization to Gnome to get it to what I like
[07:40] <Nafai> Add a couple of key bindings, add what I want to the panel, and pick a theme
[07:40] <joem> its all about sane defaults
[07:40] <chutwig> KDE suffers from an extreme case of linuxitis
[07:40] <chutwig> OPTIONS FOR EVERYTHING
[07:40] <tvon|X31> I also think the gnome HIG does a lot for the UI...kde apps always seem crowded
[07:40] <chutwig> and options for options
[07:40] <tvon|X31> chutwig: yeah
[07:40] <tvon|X31> seriously
[07:41] <brad[] > chutwig: Well, options are good, but many should be out of view by default ;)
[07:41] <chutwig> brad[] : i take the macintosh view of options
[07:41] <brad[] > The computer shouldn't ask you anything it should already know
[07:41] <brad[] > hehe
[07:41] <chutwig> hide whatever people aren't likely to use, and the people that would be using those options are the ones that don't mind digging through flat files to find it :)
[07:42] <brad[] > exactly
[07:42] <chutwig> i've gone rooting around my preference plists on here hundreds of times to find obscure settings, but that doesn't bug me, because it's something that 99% of users will never even think to look for
[07:42] <brad[] > Well, flat files blah but preference panes with advanced options or such
[07:42] <GoneBoB> yeah but then you run into stupid things like the metacity people flat out refusing to allow a window to EVER go above the screen
[07:42] <chutwig> above the screen?
[07:42] <GoneBoB> yeah
[07:42] <brad[] > GoneBoB: Yeah I had some fun with issues like that when metacity was first shipped with GNOME 2.0
[07:43] <GoneBoB> alt drag a window up
[07:43] <brad[] > Nothing would go into full-screen mode properly 
[07:43] <chutwig> i dunno, that seems like a smart move to me, keep people from putting windows where they can't get them back in an obvious manner
[07:43] <GoneBoB> they refused to make it an option and said they wouldn't include it even if I wrote a patch for it
[07:43] <GoneBoB> chestie: sure, but me and people I know specifically want to be able to
[07:43] <GoneBoB> I know how to get them back.. it's not like it needs to be in a major conf dialog
[07:44] <chutwig> i guess it's different with X, though, to get things like fullscreen and stuff
[07:44] <chutwig> OS X doesn't let you push windows off the top or bottom edges either, it makes sure the entire titlebar is visible if you try
[07:44] <chestie> GoneBoB, did I say something?
[07:45] <GoneBoB> chestie: no, I am oncrack, I meant chutwig
[07:45] <GoneBoB> ch[tab] 
[07:45] <GoneBoB> ok, gtg out
[07:47] <JanneM> brad[] : if you want to do something graphical for KDE, do a theme that fits in with the rest of the ubuntu artwork?
[07:48] <brad[] > JanneM: hmm
[07:49] <tvon|X31> hrmph
[07:49] <tvon|X31> is there no 'unrar' ?
[07:49] <brad[] > rar x?
[07:49] <tvon|X31> I cant find a package
[07:49] <brad[] > disregard
[07:49] <tvon|X31> I konw there is one in debian proper
[07:50] <tvon|X31> unrar and unrar-nonfree I believe they are called
[07:52] <chutwig> i am tired and wired at the same time
[07:59] <stub> Where do I find the startup messages - ntp is failing on startup and I want to find out why
[08:00] <lifeless> /var/log/daemon.log | /var/log/messages | dmesg
[08:10] <stub> Oh - no wonder I couldn't find it. My clock changed my 10 hours after it ran so I thought that was me running it yesterday ;)
[08:50] <punkass> anyone know any python on here?
[08:53] <clee> punkass: probably. why?
[08:54] <punkass> trying to get an output out of a os.system command
[08:54] <punkass> say i want to ls dir|grep something
[08:54] <punkass> i want the string
[08:57] <clee> hmmm. not sure.
[08:58] <punkass> clee: got it :)
[09:01] <clee> punkass: :)
[09:01] <clee> punkass: how did you do it?
[09:02] <punkass> (outp, inp) = os.popen2('command')
[09:02] <clee> ahhh.
[09:02] <punkass> print inp.read()
[09:03] <punkass> a little help from the #python channel
[09:03] <punkass> :)
[09:12] <Treenaks> btw, does anyone know a good book for learning Python? I know perl quite well now, and I like the style of Programming Perl... is there a book like that for Python?
[09:12] <Treenaks> (quite well? my job title is Perl Guru :P)
[09:13] <housetier> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonBooks :)
[09:15] <Treenaks> I still don't understand why most wikis make links LikeThis instead of "like this"..
[09:16] <jdub> Treenaks: because that's WikiText
[09:17] <housetier> LikeThis = wikiword, it takes extra effort to make "like this" a link to "LikeThis"
[09:17] <jdub> Treenaks: if you log in, you can make it add a space in display
[09:31] <Sirius_Black> hi guys - how do i install java virtual machine in ubuntu
[09:35] <Treenaks> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-16.3469703387/view?searchterm=java
[09:35] <Treenaks> ("it's in the FAQ")
[09:36] <Sirius_Black> tnx Treenaks 
[09:49] <jmhodges> hey, is there a ChangeLog anywhere public?
[09:51] <punkass> well since this is there first release im not sure if there is one yet
[09:51] <jmhodges> punkass: well, what about all of these deb releases? surely there is a ChangeLog of some kind for those
[09:52] <punkass> hmm, yeah maybe..im not sure
[09:53] <jmhodges> probably some arch repository somewhere that hasn't been publicized.. bah.. ill ask in about 8 hours when i'm really awake
[09:53] <punkass> hehe
[09:54] <jmhodges> :)
[09:58] <jdub> jmhodges: see the warty-changes mailing list
[09:58] <jmhodges> jdub: ah, now that seems to be new.. thanks jdub
[09:58] <jdub> not new
[09:59] <jdub> otherwise it wouldn't have the changes in it...
[09:59] <jmhodges> then i'm simply blind :)
[09:59] <jmhodges> thanks
[10:16] <Llamabutcher> is there a way to download shockwave through apt?
[10:17] <housetier> there is a flashplugin package, don't know if its in the ubuntu repo as well
[10:18] <crimsun> doesn't look like it.
[10:19] <Llamabutcher> its not in universe?
[10:19] <crimsun> nope.
[10:19] <punkass> if you are using the new firefox i think it has a built in browser installer
[10:19] <Llamabutcher> =(
[10:19] <crimsun> check yourself
[10:19] <Llamabutcher> thx
[10:23] <punkass> is ubuntu going to be doing a boot splash screen?
[10:23] <Mithrandir> jeg, for hoary
[10:23] <Mithrandir> uhm, yes.
[10:23] <Mithrandir> for hoary.
[10:24] <punkass> cool thanks
[10:24] <mojo> good evening every1, happy to see Ubuntu community is still crowded and motivated! ^o^
[10:24] <Mithrandir> good morning
[10:25] <punkass> im (trying) to write a little app that scans for wifi networks then ask for wep key if required
[10:25] <punkass> so far so good
[10:28] <mojo> I am wondering who I can should talk to on the Ubuntu Artwork
[10:29] <crisen> is there an ubuntu livecd in the works?
[10:29] <jdub> crisen: yes
[10:29] <jdub> crisen: it was delayed for the preview
[10:29] <jdub> people.ubuntulinux.org/~mdz/ubuntu-live/
[10:30] <crisen> ok, cool!
[10:30] <Ycros> livecds are all the rage these days... why back in my day...
[10:30] <jdub> ^ available, but oooold
[10:30] <jdub> not even close to current packages, et.c
[10:30] <punkass> anyone know of a good tutorial for making applets for 2.8?
[10:30] <crisen> livecds are useful when you want a real preview of a distro
[10:30] <crisen> they are also cool to show management 'hey look linux on a cd!'
[10:31] <punkass> also good for fixing systems that dont boot
[10:31] <yojimbo-san> On powerpc, I'd like to boot to OSX by default - I *think* all I have to do is to add "defaultos=macosx" to my /etc/yaboot.conf, and run ybin ... is that correct?
[10:32] <punkass> well off to sleep its 1:30am here
[10:38] <yojimbo-san> So, no powerpc/yaboot people around at this time of day, eh. No worries, I'll ask again later ;-)
[10:39] <MacPlusG3> yojimbo-san: you'll want something like "macosx=/dev/hda9" in your yaboot.conf, and a deafault line (from memory - i don't boot osx by default)
[10:41] <yojimbo-san> Yep, the 'macosx' line is already present, and the 'defaultos' line is well documented, I guess I'm wondering if I have to run 'ybin' or something (I'm used to lilo, and seeing GRUB just read config files at boot time made me want to be careful with assumptions)
[10:41] <MacPlusG3> maybe..
[10:41] <yojimbo-san> :-)
[10:42] <MacPlusG3> generally with yaboot you have to
[10:42] <yojimbo-san> ok, I might risk it ... :-)
[10:42] <janm> dudes, is there a PlanetUbuntu somewhere?
[10:43] <Treenaks> planet.ubuntu.com :)
[10:43] <yojimbo-san> when the install rate reaches 100%, that'll be Earth, I expect ...
[10:44] <janm> Treenaks: cool thanks
[10:45] <Treenaks> I love the "planet" concept :)
[10:46] <MacPlusG3> although it'd be neater if rss aggregators (e.g. straw) could somehow cross reference posts so you don't read the same thing twice in two planets :)
[10:46] <hypatia> it would be possible with any feed that is rss 2 and includes the gid
[10:46] <hypatia> they're meant to be completely unique
[10:47] <MacPlusG3> hrrrmm... cool... maybe something to hack on... (what am i talking about - i've got enough to do as it is :) besides... there's beer here to be drunk.
[10:47] <hypatia> but, you'll find out that a lot of feeds don't include the gid
[10:47] <hypatia> it might be possible to do it using the link
[10:48] <hawksmoor> hi, evrybody
[10:49] <hawksmoor> I need some advice, is this the right place?
[10:50] <yojimbo-san> Yep, it's quiet right now hawksmoor, but be patient :-)
[10:50] <hawksmoor> thanks, I'll be
[10:52] <Hmmmmm_> guys iv been using mandrake and fedora for a while
[10:52] <hawksmoor> you know I just tried Ubuntu but it seems my machine disagree with my decision and won't let in install
[10:52] <Hmmmmm_> im really impressd with ubuntu
[10:53] <Hmmmmm_> i want to move to it
[10:53] <Hmmmmm_> cna iinstall kde on it btw?
[10:54] <yojimbo-san> I have moved to Ubuntu to replace my work Debian/unstable workstation, but I'm not sure I want to replace my home OSX wit hit yet.
[10:54] <hawksmoor> use them both, like I do ;-)
[10:54] <yojimbo-san> KDE applicationa all install from "universe" happily, they're just not tracked for security fixed the same way that gnome is currently.
[10:54] <sabdfl> Hmmmmm_: yes, the kde packages are there, in universe
[10:55] <sabdfl> Hmmmmm_: after a default install you will have a gnome desktop
[10:55] <sabdfl> Hmmmmm_: you can then edit /etc/apt/sources.list to include the universe component
[10:55] <Hmmmmm_> i myslf live on gnome
[10:55] <sabdfl> Hmmmmm_: and then you install kde
[10:55] <Hmmmmm_> my bro uses kde
[10:55] <Hmmmmm_> sabdfl, so i just do an "apt-get install kde"?
[10:56] <sabdfl> Hmmmmm_: effectively yes. not sure of (a) how you get rid of gnome, and (b) whether "kde" is the correct basic package to use that will pull in the rest of kde too
[10:56] <daniels> sabdfl: yah, kde is right
[10:56] <sabdfl> but you'll figure all of that out quickly
[10:56] <Hmmmmm_> i dont wana get rid of gnome
[10:56] <Hmmmmm_> i want both
[10:57] <sabdfl> another option might be to do a custom "server" install, no X at all, then pull in kde, to avoid having gnome in the first place
[10:57] <sabdfl> Hmmmmm_: ok
[10:57] <Hmmmmm_> daniels, so will "apt-get install kde" do the trick?
[10:57] <daniels> Hmmmmm_: yep
[10:57] <Hmmmmm_> thnx
[10:58] <Hmmmmm_> also can i copy the stuff i hav already installed using apt-get
[10:58] <Hmmmmm_> and reuse it after i reinstall?
[10:59] <yojimbo-san> Hmmm, look in /var/cache/apt/archives
[10:59] <hawksmoor> I really wanto to try ubuntu but the installation aborts with a "Disk error 01, AX = 4236, drive 9F", anyone had problems like this?
[10:59] <yojimbo-san> Hmmm. you should find all the downloaded .deb files.
[10:59] <yojimbo-san> hawksmoor, what hardware are you using?
[11:00] <hawksmoor> packard bell laptop amd k6-2 128 megs ram 450 mhz, trydent cyberblade video card, via 86cxxx audio
[11:00] <Hmmmmm_> yojimbo-san, can i also copy this stuff to someone else's ubuntu install and save him the trouble of downloading it ?
[11:00] <hawksmoor> mandrake 10 with gnome-fluxbox
[11:02] <yojimbo-san> Hmmmm, in theory yes, I *think* but I'm not sure, that you should copy all these files back into the other machine's ...cache, and then run apt-get as normal - it will find the cached files, and if they;re still current, it'll use them instead of downloading new ones
[11:02] <yojimbo-san> hawksmoor - does the error happen while booting from the CD, or during the copying files process? Where did you get your CD from?
[11:04] <hawksmoor> it happens booting, right at the beginning and a friend of mine with adsl downloaded it yesterday from the italian mirror (i'm italian, by the way9 
[11:04] <Hmmmmm_> yojimbo-san, i'll giv it a shot
[11:04] <hypatia> what's the status of the kernel-image-2.6 virtual packages?
[11:04] <yojimbo-san> ciao ;-) Can you verify the md5 checksums of the CD image you burnt? Perhaps the download was corrupted, or the CD is a bad burn?
[11:04] <hypatia> Are they a universe thing or a supported thing?
[11:05] <hawksmoor> yojimbo-san, twice the booting let me arrive to the splash screen and then stopped before it
[11:05] <hypatia> I guess they'd be linux-image if they were supported.
[11:05] <yojimbo-san> hawksmoor, that sounds a lot like a CD problem ...
[11:06] <hypatia> Ah yes, there's a linux-image virtual package too
[11:07] <yojimbo-san> hypatia, try "apt-cache policy <package>" to see what area it came from ...
[11:07] <hawksmoor> mmm.... I thought so, if I copy the cd just like it's only data (i.e. not like a bootable cd) and then burn it from my powerbook using disk image, you think it could do the trick?
[11:08] <Mithrandir> hawksmoor: disk image has had problems with the ubuntu cds before, causing it to crash.
[11:08] <yojimbo-san> hawksmoor, I think you should use md5sum to get the checksum of the CD, and compare that with the ubuntu download website first.
[11:09] <hawksmoor> yojimbo-san, now that I remember, my friend using windows xp :-( at first read the file as a winrar archive
[11:10] <yojimbo-san> Well, I hope that they havent broken their original download. Check it!
[11:11] <yojimbo-san> The md5 checksum should be '9750df59b73428b68e681c3c44b31ff5  warty-i386.iso ' (from http://ftp3.linux.it/pub/mirrors/warty/MD5SUMS for the 15 Sep 2004 file)
[11:11] <hawksmoor> seems that the cd surface is scratched, i feel like i've ad a bit of bad luck!
[11:12] <yojimbo-san> I think it's good luck that you didn't get half-way through the install before finding out that your CD was broken!
[11:12] <yojimbo-san> Think positively :-)
[11:12] <hawksmoor> eheheh right ;-)
[11:12] <hypatia> yojimbo-san: thanks
[11:13] <oik> Hey all
[11:14] <yojimbo-san> hey oik ... can we help you?
[11:15] <oik> Has anybody had trouble with the 'mail' command? email seems to disappear. 
[11:15] <hypatia> oik: have a look at /var/log/mail.log to see where it might be going
[11:15] <hawksmoor> another thing, (promise I won't bother you anymore) I've compiled fluxbox 0.9.10 on mandrake log out/log in but fluxbox doesn't appear among the other wm (gnome, icewm, wmaker) is there a way to make it so, be it from the command line or gui?
[11:16] <oik> well yes, there is the message 'fatal: open database /etc/aliases.db: No such file or directory'
[11:16] <yojimbo-san> hawksmoor, it might be in the 'universe' packages ... but I can only see a couple of related packages at the moment ...
[11:17] <hawksmoor> thanks, you're very kind
[11:18] <yojimbo-san> Under Debian, tha package is called 'fluxbox', and this is certainly not in the current ubuntu packages ...
[11:20] <hawksmoor> no, i mean is there a way to have it listed among the others before logging (graphical log.... I'm a newbie and not quite comfortable using primarily the command lie)
[11:21] <yojimbo-san> You mean, you already have fluxbox installed and working?
[11:21] <hawksmoor> line... sorry for the tyoi
[11:21] <hawksmoor> typo
[11:21] <hawksmoor> :-(
[11:22] <hawksmoor> yes, at the moment is my windo manager in gnome instead of metacity
[11:23] <yojimbo-san> The list of window managers is presented from the 'gdm' program - check the man pages (I don't know where it gets the list of wm's from, I'm having a look myself now ;-)
[11:23] <hawksmoor> a little problem with the top panel appearing in the middle of the screen but for the rest is quite fine
[11:26] <yojimbo-san> hawksmoor, I'm not sure, but I think you need to look in /usr/share/xsessions. Some kind of data file in there might be needed - I'd try copying the current 'gnome.desktop' and making a few changes (like the Comment and Exec lines)?
[11:27] <hawksmoor> looking the gdm man page and the gdm.conf file right now, I'll try your hints
[11:29] <bitserf> if i'm missing some package from debian proper, what is the best way to get it on ubu? just add debian mirrors to sources.list and hpope for the best?
[11:29] <bitserf> *ubuntu; *hope; apologies:latency
[11:30] <Mithrandir> bitserf: add the universe component
[11:30] <yojimbo-san> bitserf, are you already checking the 'universe' repository of ubuntu?
[11:30] <oik> yojimbo-san: I ran newaliases which seemed to fix the postfix problem. Should this have been done automatically?
[11:32] <yojimbo-san> oik, yes, that sounds reasonable. Perhaps you should have a look in the bugzilla to see if this has already been noticed?
[11:32] <bitserf> yojimbo: ah, so thats where they'll all reside? great...(still busy in the second phase of my ubuntu install, downloading packages)
[11:33] <oik> yojimbo-san: will do
[11:33] <yojimbo-san> bitserf: yes, universe is basically a dump of 'sid' taken at some time, it's not 100% but it's close enough :-)
[11:34] <hypatia> looking at bugzilla, I don't think it has been mentioned there
[11:34] <yojimbo-san> bitserf: you'll need to edit sources.list, just uncomment the lines mentioning 'universe', then 'apt-get update'.
[11:35] <hypatia> Oh no.
[11:35] <hawksmoor> wife calling, thanks again for your help see ya soon 
[11:35] <hypatia> oik: https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1341
[11:36] <hypatia> oik: You should definitely add comments to that bug because it looks like they haven't made much progress with it.
[11:37] <yojimbo-san> hypatia, that but (well found, BTW) is closed in favour of #1123, and is listed as "Fixed in 2.1.3-1ubuntu16."
[11:38] <yojimbo-san> oik, have you run 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' recently?
[11:39] <hypatia> yojimbo-san: Reality always beats the bug tracker though
[11:39] <hypatia> yojimbo-san: if the bug still exists and the bug tracker says it doesn't... the bug still exists
[11:40] <hypatia> it's good to check though :)
[11:40] <yojimbo-san> hypatia, that package looks like it was only fixed in the last 24 hours or so ...
[11:41] <yojimbo-san> I have the aliases.db error in my log from 4pm my time, but I upgraded around 6pm, and looking now (9pm) I *have* an aliases.db. So I now always upgrade before investigating a bug too closely :-)
[11:41] <hypatia> it's often not sufficient with ubuntu bugs
[11:41] <hypatia> ideally you *reinstall* from the latest daily and then investigate
[11:42] <hypatia> because they have some kind of policy about never changing your existing settings
[11:42] <yojimbo-san> Well, I can't afford the time to do that. apt-get solves most of my bugs, the rest I kludge by habd
[11:42] <hypatia> So a lot of bugs get "fixed for new installs"
[11:42] <hypatia> I hope that changes for the warty -> hoary upgrade path
[11:42] <yojimbo-san>  ... /habd/hand/ :-)
[11:43] <yojimbo-san> Indeed, I hope the dist-upgrade works. Based on previous evidence, I expect it will :-)
[11:44] <yojimbo-san> Anyway, I'm about to see if I can use 'ybin' to make osx my default boot ... so I'll leave this fine forum for the evening ;-) Have fun, everyone!
[11:55] <sabdfl> hmm... i've just set up a machine called "slinky"
[11:56] <sabdfl> if I send mail using "mail -s xyz joe@bloggs.com" it sends mail from "mark@slinky"
[11:56] <sabdfl> how do I reset that to be "mark@mydomain.com"?
[11:57] <hypatia> I do it using /etc/postfix/canonical
[11:57] <hypatia> Oh, that's the Sender address, From address might not match up.
[11:58] <hypatia> Oh no, that does work
[11:58] <hypatia> So, what you do is:
[11:58] <hypatia> put:
[11:58] <hypatia> mark    mark@mydomain.com
[11:58] <hypatia> in /etc/postfix/canonical
[11:58] <hypatia> then run "postmap /etc/postfix/canonical"
[11:59] <hypatia> And add this line to /etc/postfix/main.cf:
[11:59] <hypatia> canonical_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/canonical
[11:59] <hypatia> Then postfix will rewrite all outgoing mail from "mark@localhost" or "mark@slinky" or whatever to "mary@mydomain.com"
[12:01] <hypatia> "mark@mydomain.com" rather :(
[12:15] <JD> and I've had coffee
[12:15] <JD> maybe that is the problem
[12:15] <JD> don't feed me coffee
[12:17] <edd> hey Kinnison, JD
[12:17] <Mithrandir> I should eat breakfast
[12:17] <Kinnison> hey edd.
[12:18] <Kinnison> nonono
[12:18] <Kinnison> tla brain--fuck
[12:18] <JD> hehehe
[12:20] <jono> does ubuntu use the new debian installer to install?
[12:21] <Treenaks> basically, yes.
[12:21] <Treenaks> afaics
[12:21] <jono> cool
[12:21] <jono> anyone able to confirm this?
[12:21] <jono> officially
[12:21] <Treenaks> it uses udebs, it looks like the debian installer, and it feels like the debian installer
[12:22] <Treenaks> it's only a bit less interactive
[12:22] <Treenaks> so I guess it is the debian installer :)
[12:23] <jono> cheers Mithrandir
[12:23] <jono> and Treenaks :)
[12:23] <jono> I am reviewing Ubuntu for a magazine, you see
[12:23] <Treenaks> jono: cool
[12:23] <jono> hi JD
[12:24] <Treenaks> I'm installing it on an ancient Thinkpad 310 (1G disk!) atm
[12:24] <jono> hows it going Dave?
[12:24] <JD> jono: you graduated yet?
[12:24] <Treenaks> just to see if the installer doesn't break
[12:24] <JD> jono: not too bad, but ask me after I'm learnt tla
[12:24] <jono> JD: yah, I graduated a year back :)
[12:24] <Treenaks> (and if hardware is detected correctly, of course)
[12:24] <jono> JD: you at the expo this year?
[12:25] <azeem> Treenaks: 1G was too less, last time I tried
[12:25] <mcking> hello all
[12:25] <JD> jono: of course
[12:25] <mcking> i am really psyched about ubuntu.  installed it this morning
[12:25] <azeem> actually, I had around 1.5 GB and did not use archive/copier=false, and the installer did not warn me it was too less, but just crashed
[12:25] <aki_> Noticed that grub.menu contains "quiet splash", but could not find a bootsplash pack in the repos. Am I missing something?
[12:25] <jono> JD: cool :)
[12:25] <Mithrandir> aki_: it'll be implemented for hoary
[12:26] <aki_> When will hoary repos be available?
[12:32] <mcking> do the kernels from warty have the bootsplash patch?
[12:33] <Mithrandir> aki_: shortly after warty final is out
[12:33] <zombics> where is the grub.conf file under ubuntu?
[12:33] <tuppa> Zomb: /boot/grub/
[12:33] <Mithrandir> /boot/grub/menu.lst
[12:35] <tuppa> how come emacs can't become a bootloader? :P
[12:35] <Mithrandir> tuppa: I'm sure it could, but you'd need to strip it down a bit
[12:36] <tuppa> ahh of course
[12:36] <tuppa> I'm sure the text adventure game doesn't have to be in the bootloader...
[12:36] <zombics> Mithrandir, thx
[12:36] <tuo2> tuppa: it is... but noone's ever seen it finish booting...
[12:37] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: strip down emacs? sacrilege!
[12:37] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: it's just a lisp engine and a bunch of lisp files.
[12:37] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: it's not like you need doctor for booting your system
[12:38] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: well, what if the boot fails/
[12:38] <Mithrandir> then you need doctor, sure.
[12:38] <tuppa> well... or you have to go through doctor before you can boot windows
[12:38] <tuppa> you need to see a doctor if you want to use that os anyway...
[12:48] <Treenaks>  well, go ahead and ask :)
[12:48] <lypanov> how to burn a bootable ubuntu cd using nero? :P
[12:48] <Treenaks> you have the .iso from the site?
[12:48] <lypanov> yup
[12:48] <JD> lypanov: you can do isos but it isn't entirely obvious how
[12:49] <Treenaks> lypanov: you should be able to select "Burn from image file" from the menu
[12:49] <lypanov> ah found it :)
[12:49] <Treenaks> or something that looks like that
[12:49] <joem> isn't it just file-burn image file
[12:49] <lypanov> thanks :))
[12:49] <joem> that is pretty obvious
[12:49] <zombics> lypanov, just chose images or saed projects and then open the iso with it
[12:49] <bitserf> woot, ubuntu up =)
[12:49] <lypanov> i used express :P
[12:49] <lypanov> next*
[12:50] <lypanov> thx you guys :)
[12:50] <bitserf> i have to echo edd dumbill...this is what debian is like after i put in a few hours of customization 
[12:51] <sabdfl> bitserf: let us know if there are an other tweaks and simplifications we should be adding for Hoary
[12:52] <lypanov> this is the first time i've installed a gnome distro ever :)
[12:52] <zombics> hmmm. :\ this is how my grub is configed and i still cant bott into windows: title=Windows XP
[12:52] <zombics> rootnoverify (hd0,1)
[12:52] <zombics> makeactive
[12:52] <zombics> chainloader +1
[12:52] <lypanov> zombics: tried it from the grub command line?
[12:52] <zombics> no
[12:53] <lypanov> chainloader (hd0)+1 always works for me :)
[12:53] <zombics> thats it? this is all i need to write in grub?
[12:54] <zombics> ok i done that now what i need to do?(yo close and reboot my system)
[12:55] <lypanov>  i mean the grub boot command line
[12:55] <zombics> lypanov, ? :O the thing i open with the command "grub"?
[12:58] <bitserf> sabdfl: i shall
[01:00] <vincent> thanks seb128 for the lobbying to have eagle-usb in ubuntu-cd :)
[01:00] <seb128> vincent: you're welcome :)
[01:00] <slicky> hiya
[01:02] <bitserf> ahhh, slick, browsing SMB works out of the box
[01:11] <lypanov> most exwcellent
[01:11] <gommans> will there be a ubutu forum on the website?
[01:12] <lypanov> Treenaks / JD / joem: works perfect thanks :)
[01:12] <lypanov> install process is nice :)
[01:12] <Mitario> gommans, yes, i think there will be one
[01:12] <Mitario> i thought they where working on it
[01:13] <gommans> Good! That is what we need!
[01:13] <dannya> what is ubuntu's "position" on kde?
[01:14] <Treenaks> lypanov: not only the install process ;)
[01:14] <Treenaks> dannya: it's on the website
[01:14] <dannya> ah, thanks :)
[01:14] <gommans> They want to support it fully dannya
[01:14] <gommans> But do not do it at the moment.
[01:14] <gommans> working on it.
[01:15] <linux_mafia> k3b works at least, yeah!
[01:15] <lypanov> wow
[01:15] <lypanov> k3b is included?
[01:15] <gommans> I am a mepis user. Currently I can use the testing/unstable debian packages. Is this working good with ubuntu?
[01:15] <linux_mafia> lypanov, no, from universe
[01:15] <lypanov> ohh :>
[01:15] <lypanov> coolio
[01:15] <lypanov> cus i was wondering what the heck i was gonna use to burn cds :)
[01:15] <JD> lypanov: what do you want KDE for :)
[01:16] <lypanov> actually i don't :)
[01:16] <lypanov> its a headless box i'm making :P
[01:16] <polok> how would one get sound working in ubuntu?
[01:16] <linux_mafia> i've always been a gnome user, since my first distro, but i love k3b
[01:16] <bitserf> sabdfl: would be nice if i could use my iPod out of the box in Hoary :)
[01:16] <gommans> JD: Do you prefer gnome?
[01:17] <sabdfl> bitserf: hmm... have you tried plugging it in to a warty box?
[01:17] <JD> gommans: I used to help package KDE in debian
[01:17] <gommans> so you prefer KDE?
[01:18] <gommans> I have used KDE and had issues with gnome under mepis.
[01:18] <JD> gommans: it was more of a joke cos lypanov does (or did) KDE development aiui
[01:18] <lypanov> does/did :) still not sure :)
[01:19] <gommans> lypanov: how does gnome compare to kde?
[01:19] <bitserf> sabdfl: yep, i can see the IEEE1394 log entries, but nothing additional in /proc/scsi
[01:19] <lypanov> gommans: i prefer kde :)
[01:19] <gommans> does it run good in ubunt?
[01:19] <gommans> does it run good in ubuntu?
[01:19] <polok> if ubuntu has sound enabled, do I need to create a symlink to /dev/dsp to get these programs to work properly?
[01:19] <sabdfl> bitserf: chat to pitti, when he's online, he might get that working for warty
[01:20] <bitserf> so, adding universe to sources.list is equivalent to using sid on debian?
[01:20] <azeem> lypanov: you can burn CDs via nautilus, if you didn't kow
[01:20] <azeem> eh, know
[01:20] <sabdfl> polok: symlink from where?
[01:20] <sabdfl> seb128: can you confirm eagle-usb has been added to the ship or base lists?
[01:21] <seb128> matt has added eagle-utils to the ship seed yesterday 
[01:21] <gommans> how is ubutu hw-detection?
[01:21] <polok> sabdfl: from whichever device is sound to /dev/dsp
[01:21] <gommans> *ubuntu
[01:22] <sabdfl> polok: i think /dev/dsp is created when the alsa oss-compat mixer module is loaded
[01:22] <sabdfl> seb128: good call, thank you
[01:22] <lypanov> azeem: iso's? dvd's? etc?
[01:22] <seb128> np :)
[01:23] <polok> sabdfl: how would I do that? if you don't mind :)
[01:23] <lypanov> azeem: think i'll prob stick to command line :) just as easy as finding an altnerative to k3b i think :)
[01:23] <sabdfl> polok: try sudo modprobe snd-mixer-oss
[01:23] <azeem> lypanov: you can burn .iso files via the context menu, AFAIK
[01:23] <sabdfl> before that, check if it's already loaded, using lsmod
[01:24] <azeem> lypanov: copying CDs, mastering DVDs and anything more complicated sucks in GNOME ATM :-/
[01:26] <polok> sabdfl: it's running but I still can't get sound
[01:26] <polok> it works fine with gentoo/debian/fedora (the other distros I've emmigrated from)
[01:26] <sabdfl> polok: do you also have snd-pcm-oss?
[01:27] <polok> nope
[01:27] <polok> wait, yes
[01:28] <polok> both are being run
[01:33] <sabdfl> polok: but you don't have a /dev/dsp?
[01:34] <bitserf> sabdfl: scratch that, after a reboot my iPod is visible as /dev/sdb :)
[01:35] <bitserf> tho, is this bad? "hda: IRQ probe failed (0xfffffdfe)". first time i've seen that...drive was working an hour ago, but not visible in ubuntu :)
[01:36] <sabdfl> bitserf: and is it mounted under /media/?
[01:36] <polok> sabdfl: I don't have a /dev/dsp
[01:36] <sabdfl> polok: anything in dmesg or /var/log/syslog about dsp?
[01:37] <bitserf> sabdfl: would this be the iPod or the hdd?
[01:37] <sabdfl> bitserf: the ipod
[01:37] <bitserf> sabdfl: nope...should it be?
[01:37] <sabdfl> bitserf: try
[01:37] <sabdfl> unmounting it and unplugging it
[01:37] <sabdfl> then plug it in again
[01:38] <sabdfl> while you are logged in
[01:38] <sabdfl> to X
[01:38] <polok> sabdfl: it says nothing about dsp
[01:39] <sabdfl> polok: that's about as much as I thought I knew about alsa, i'm afraid
[01:39] <sabdfl> polok: hey, do you have a printer port?
[01:39] <polok> sabdfl: yep
[01:40] <sabdfl> hmm... there were some reports that the printer port could interfere with sound on some machines
[01:40] <gommans> daniels: Jack is that you my friend?
[01:40] <polok> sabdfl: :|
[01:41] <polok> sabdfl: were there solutions?
[01:41] <sabdfl> try blacklisting lp, parport and parport_pc i think in /etc/hotplug/blacklist
[01:41] <sabdfl> and rebooting
[01:41] <sabdfl> you should then not have tose modules loaded at all
[01:41] <sabdfl> then let us know if it works
[01:41] <polok> >_<
[01:41] <polok> ok then
[01:42] <liz> oh yay..it blooming works
[01:43] <polok> brb rebootibg
[01:45] <gommans> Any former mepis users here?
[01:45] <bitserf> sabdfl: woot! sdb2 mounted automatically. now i just need to make it so gtkpod starts up when that particular device is mounted :)
[01:46] <liz> anyone using xchat to connect to irc?
[01:47] <liz> mine doesnt seem to want to work
[01:47] <liz> im using gaim at the moment
[01:48] <mike_w> I'm using xchat
[01:48] <slicky> me 2 xchat
[01:48] <vincent> xchat also
[01:48] <gommans> konversation
[01:48] <liz> i installed ubuntu today ..and for some reason, it wont connect using xchat
[01:49] <mike_w> mine takes a while to connect.. always seems to hang on "checking ident" though...
[01:49] <liz> mine doesnt even get that far
[01:49] <liz> says i misspelled it
[01:50] <liz> no matter which one i try to connect to..even if i try to add a new server and join that one..
[01:50] <mike_w> says you misspelled what?
[01:50] <liz> it just wont connect
[01:50] <liz> the server name..the default ones that are listed on xchat
[01:50] <mike_w> weird..
[01:50] <liz> other weird thing is
[01:51] <liz> i can connect to http://www.ubuntulinux.org
[01:51] <liz> but wont let me connect to wiki.ubuntu.com
[01:52] <liz> in my browser
[01:54] <sabdfl> bitserf: there you go, and six months ahead of schedule, too ;-)
[01:54] <mike_w> hmm.. my system just locked up, totally unresponsive. dunno what caused it (!)
[01:54] <lypanov> :(
[01:55] <mike_w> ;(
[01:55] <truk-away> liz: wiki.ubuntulinux.org
[01:55] <polok> that didn't work the way I wanted
[01:55] <azeem> mike_w: perhaps there's something in /var/log/ after you reboot which gives you hints
[01:55] <lypanov> grub doesn't go second stage on my new system  ::(:(:(:(:(
[01:55] <azeem> /var/log/syslog or /var/log/kern.log
[01:55] <bitserf> anyone else had any problems with an intel i875p chipset dropping devices on the floor?
[01:55] <lypanov> k
[01:55] <polok> sabdfl: well I have /dev/dsp
[01:55] <liz> Truk-away nope, that doesnt work either
[01:55] <lypanov> anyone tried lvm during install?
[01:55] <polok> sabdfl: it's just not letting me use it
[01:55] <lypanov> i can't create volume groups
[01:55] <polok> it says it's busy
[01:56] <lypanov> it keep son saying that there are no partitions to use
[01:56] <sabdfl> polok: i think esd grabs it. which app are you trying to use
[01:56] <lypanov> i've tried having a large unmounted partition. that doesn't work
[01:56] <bitserf> lypanov: i had to modify the root () line of grub
[01:56] <lypanov> and i've tried unpartitioning. but no luck
[01:56] <lypanov> bitserf: oopsie
[01:56] <polok> sabdfl: just the media player that comes with gnome
[01:56] <truk-away> liz: it works for me
[01:56] <lypanov> bitserf: i just wiped it all doh :(
[01:57] <lypanov> but stage2 ain't working
[01:57] <lypanov> so the install was buggered in fact
[01:57] <lypanov> gonna try lilo this time :)
[01:57] <liz> it works for me on the other machine..but just wont work on here..and i dont know why
[01:57] <lypanov> but anyone got lvm install working?
[01:57] <liz> i had the same problem on slackware
[01:59] <mike_w> azeem: sorry, fairly new to linux. There are some errors in syslog though (e.g. Device 'i823650' does not have a release() function, it is broken and must be fixed.
[01:59] <mike_w>  ; & Badness in device_release at drivers/base/core.c:85
[01:59] <mike_w> )
[02:00] <azeem> mike_w: did you reboot in the meantime?
[02:00] <mike_w> azeem: just rebooted 2 mins ago (had to use the reset button)
[02:00] <azeem> then try to get the last message, before syslog get reactivated again (usually, you get loads of messages during that first second, and there is a time-hole before)
[02:01] <mike_w> azeem: bottom of file? top of file?
[02:02] <lypanov> how small is custom?
[02:02] <azeem> mike_w: towards, the bottom, but all the way at the bottom, all the messages from the last reboot will be
[02:02] <bitserf> aha. it seems that because my boot device was serial-ata, ide-disk module doesn't get loaded, and hence, the device node created. for the interested: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1569
[02:02] <azeem> mike_w: so go to the bottom, and back from there
[02:03] <mike_w> azeem: how bout this? [fglrx:firegl_unlock]  *ERROR* Process 4666 using kernel context 0
[02:04] <azeem> sounds promising
[02:04] <azeem> is there some more around that?
[02:04] <mike_w> this after: mtrr: 0xd8000000,0x4000000 overlaps existing 0xd8000000,0x200000
[02:04] <mike_w> and this before: [fglrx]  AGP detected, AgpState   = 0x00000000 (hardware caps of chipset)
[02:05] <mike_w> [fglrx:firegl_addmap]  *ERROR* mtrr allocation failed (-22)
[02:05] <azeem> mike_w: well, if this is the last you see in the log (followed by something like 'Syslog restart') it is good enough to file a bug report
[02:06] <azeem> wouldn't hurt to add some more lines before that to be sure
[02:07] <mike_w> azeem: that error was after syslogd 1.4.1#14ubuntu4: restart.
[02:09] <azeem> mike_w: hmm
[02:09] <azeem> so it's from after the reboot
[02:09] <azeem> mike_w: well, with 'after' you mean 'further towards the end of the file', right?
[02:10] <azeem> best to check the timestamps
[02:10] <mike_w> azeem: yeah - I seem to get that error each boot, it maybe wasn't what locked the system?
[02:11] <azeem> no, it wasn't
[02:11] <azeem> perhaps you find something in another file, but I think it's common that lockups don't get logged, as it's too late for syslog to write to disk
[02:12] <mike_w> think you're right there - restart was at 12:52:39, there was a --MARK-- at 12:42:32, last entry before that was at 12:24:03
[02:12] <mike_w> what was the other log file to check?
[02:13] <azeem> syslog, kern.log, daemon.log, debug
[02:14] <mike_w> nothing in debug
[02:15] <mike_w> incidentally, is the following a problem at all: .Xauthority is not owned by uid 1000.
[02:16] <azeem> no idea, but I guess you'd have bigger trouble if it was
[02:16] <mike_w> heh - yeah I guess :P 
[02:17] <mike_w> well none of those logs have any entries between 12:22:41 and 12:52:39, with the exception of --MARK-- in syslog. Take it the error was unrecorded then?
[02:17] <azeem> yeah :(
[02:18] <mike_w> pah. Maybe my ATI drivers are causing probs though?
[02:18] <azeem> if it happens again, try to see whether you were doing something specific at that time, and then mail ubuntu-users of file a bug
[02:18] <polok> how do I find out which program is using /dev/dsp and stop it?
[02:18] <azeem> mike_w: one thing you could do is try to login via SSH, if you have access to a computer which is networked to your box
[02:18] <mike_w> it's actually happened before, went to screensaver a while ago and locked up (black screen)
[02:19] <azeem> hmm, maybe try disabling the screensaver then
[02:19] <mike_w> this time I was just logging into irc via gaim at the time 
[02:19] <azeem> oh
[02:19] <mike_w> so unstable somehow
[02:19] <azeem> well, it could be hardware problems, like bad memory
[02:19] <mike_w> and the screensaver was fine this morning
[02:20] <mike_w> don't have another box :( have 2x256MB matched PC2100 DDR (samsung)
[02:20] <mike_w> not had any probs with the RAM, but am suspicous of the ati driver
[02:22] <Qerub> polok: lsof /dev/dsp
[02:25] <Qerub> bitserf: Is Herbert Xu a Canonical Software employee?
[02:26] <bitserf> i'm not sure, as i don't work for Canonical :)
[02:27] <Qerub> bitserf: Hmm. I don't know why I directed that question at you.
[02:28] <polok> Qerub: ta
[02:28] <polok> :D
[02:28] <Qerub> polok: np
[02:28] <azeem> Qerub: no, but he works on contractual basis, AFAIK
[02:28] <bitserf> anyone know which font is being used here: http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/2004/indubstrial/ ?
[02:29] <Qerub> azeem: Ah, thanks.
[02:30] <polok> that was weird
[02:30] <polok> ubuntu didn't have gcc/g++
[02:30] <truk-away> polok: sudo apt-get install gcc
[02:31] <joebeastie> not installed by default
[02:31] <polok> oh
[02:31] <polok> I installed it
[02:31] <polok> I just was shocked it wasn't installed by default
[02:31] <azeem> why should it?
[02:31] <truk-away> sudo aptitude install build-essential
[02:31] <polok> thanks though truk-away 
[02:31] <polok> azeem: most linux distributions have it
[02:31] <Qerub> polok: no doubt that's a feature
[02:31] <azeem> polok: well yeah, but it's a feature
[02:32] <truk-away> polok: ubuntu is desktop target, no needs of gcc by default
[02:32] <azeem> polok: most users don't need it, and most hackers would like to have it
[02:32] <polok> heh
[02:32] <polok> I need it for uni work.
[02:32] <truk-away> so install it, it's easy
[02:32] <polok> truk-away: I did
[02:32] <truk-away> polok: so enjoy it ;)
[02:33] <polok> again, it's the first distro I've seen that didn't come with it by default
[02:33] <polok> however, it came with python
[02:33] <polok> much fun will be had with python
[02:33] <truk-away> i think it's good idea gcc not installed by default
[02:33] <polok> I'm indifferent
[02:33] <polok> it's just a surprise
[02:33] <truk-away> we all here are different
[02:34] <azeem> polok: well, the python maintainer is also the gcc maintainer, and he works at canonical
[02:34] <polok> I noticed when trying to compile fluxbox
[02:34] <truk-away> lol
[02:34] <truk-away> but for newbies, it's good
[02:34] <azeem> polok: so there's no conspiracy against gcc :)
[02:34] <joebeastie> who exactly is canonical?
[02:34] <azeem> www.canonical.com
[02:35] <polok> azeem: if there was, I'd just choose another distro, niceness of choice :D
[02:41] <mike_w> ok, here's a question. How do I enable NTP support?
[02:42] <truk-away> ntp support is enabled by default, as i know
[02:42] <Qerub> mike_w: ntpdate?
[02:43] <mike_w> ntpdate says "no servers can be used, exiting". Trying to do it through computer--> system config --> time gives "NTP support is not running"
[02:43] <mike_w> just need to know the commmand to get it running really
[02:44] <Qerub> mike_w: /etc/default/ntpdate?
[02:45] <mike_w> doesn't exist
[02:45] <lypanov> lilo workx :>
[02:45] <mike_w> Qerub: erm... sorry, yes it does!
[02:46] <mike_w> Qerub: NTPSERVERS="pool.ntp.org"  NTPOPTIONS="-u"
[02:46] <linux_mafia> mike_w, sudo /etc/init.d/ntpdate start
[02:47] <mike_w> :P
[02:47] <mike_w> linux_mafia: tnxs!
[02:47] <linux_mafia> mike_w, that work?
[02:48] <sabdfl> polok: we deliberately chose not to install build-essential (my call)
[02:48] <sabdfl> 99% of our users never need it
[02:48] <azeem> sabdfl: you know your users well :)
[02:48] <sabdfl> and it's on the cd by default for the moment, so you don't need to go to the net if you need it
[02:48] <mike_w> linux_mafia: worked in the command line, still not in the gui tho
[02:49] <azeem> I totally think it's the right decision, of course
[02:49] <polok> sabdfl: I don't like that for now
[02:49] <polok> you're not going to cater for us selfish programmers? :(
[02:49] <azeem> polok: uhm, it's on the CD
[02:50] <azeem> polok: build-essential isn't installed by default on Debian, either, AFAIK
[02:50] <polok> azeem: but he said it's on the cd for now
[02:50] <azeem> you need to install some packages as well there
[02:50] <polok> azeem: it is on gentoo
[02:50] <azeem> polok: oh, so you can argue about it when they remove it :)
[02:51] <azeem> polok: yeah, but it's gentoo's raison d'etre
[02:51] <polok> azeem: yeah, that was the whole point of the "I don't like..." message :)
[02:51] <linux_mafia> mike_w, from what i understand from the error, i get it too, is that if you run an ntp server on your box, it syncs yours to another, but ntpdate is not an ntp server, just an update and sync mechanism, so there isn't ntp support really
[02:51] <polok> azeem: it needs a better one
[02:51] <polok> azeem: something like "we'll speed up all compile time, don't worry it won't take over a day to compile openoffice"
[02:52] <lypanov> yay :>
[02:52] <mike_w> linux_mafia: ahh, okay. Don't need to run a server, but how do I make it sync the time on boot?
[02:52] <polok> the bloody thing runs faster under ubuntu and it's a binary package I assume, too
[02:52] <linux_mafia> mike_w, it does by default afaik, well in my case anyway
[02:53] <lypanov> polok: gentoo has a binary openoffice package also :)
[02:54] <mike_w> linux_mafia: okay, thanks. Will try and pay more attention next boot. Is there something similar to red hat's "services" dialog though, that lets you choose which services to start on boot?
[02:55] <linux_mafia> mike_w, install rcconf, or in debian you can install chkconfig, not sure about ubuntu though
[02:55] <lypanov> ubuntu rocks :)
[02:55] <lypanov> daniels: me impressed :)
[02:55] <linux_mafia> mike_w, rcconf is easiest though, cli curses based tool
[02:55] <mike_w> linux_mafia: that in universe?
[02:56] <azeem> mike_w: update-rc.d is the Debian way
[02:56] <linux_mafia> mike_w, not sure
[02:57] <linux_mafia> azeem, is rcconf not a debian tool?
[02:57] <azeem> linux_mafia: dunno, never heard of it
[02:57] <azeem> linux_mafia: yeah, seems so :)
[02:58] <mike_w> azeem: how would I use update-rc.d to add a service to be started at boot?
[02:58] <azeem> mike_w: there's an manpage, 'man update-rc.d'
[02:58] <azeem> mike_w: rcconf might be easier, dunno
[02:59] <joebeastie> wow. first time i have seen rcconf
[02:59] <joebeastie> nice
[02:59] <mike_w> azeem: thanks
[02:59] <linux_mafia> mike_w, forget what he said, rcconf is tui debian frontend to update-rc.d, there is nothing un1337 about not hacking on the cli
[03:02] <aki_> how can i watch movies in avi format? burn home movies in avi as vcd/svcd?
[03:02] <mike_w> linux_mafia: found rcconfig in universe, doesn't have an ntpdate option though
[03:03] <bitserf> aki: mplayer supports virtually every codec known to man :)
[03:03] <aki_> bitserf: marrilat repository? does it work on ubuntu?
[03:04] <aki_> what about burning to CD?
[03:04] <bitserf> aki: hmm...should do, it works on my sid box...ubuntu warty is just a snapshotted sid
[03:05] <joebeastie> aki_: i have wondered the same
[03:05] <linux_mafia> mike_w, youre right, odd
[03:06] <mike_w> linux_mafia: ah well, thanks anyway. Need to go now
[03:06] <mike_w> :-D
[03:06] <linux_mafia> joebeastie, i got w32codecs package from marillat, works fine for watching avi
[03:07] <bitserf> aki: stock totem seems to work on xvid/divx files for me
[03:07] <aki_> do the codecs work with totem or do i need mplayer
[03:08] <linux_mafia> joebeastie, dunno if its sorted now, but installing totem-xine instead of totem-gstreamer fixed alot of problems for people, though i think that was watching dvds
[03:08] <bitserf> aki: totem-xine uses xine backend, which supports the win32codecs package
[03:08] <aki_> does k3b burn VCDs?
[03:08] <linux_mafia> aki_, yes
[03:08] <bitserf> i think /usr/lib/win32 is the default location xine looks for it
[03:09] <grahame> anyone managed to get totem to play DVDs?
[03:09] <linux_mafia> bitserf, thats correct
[03:09] <linux_mafia> grahame, yes
[03:09] <aki_> bitserf: cool. do i need t deinstall totem-gstreamer if i use totem-xine?
[03:09] <grahame> linux_mafia: GStreamer-WARNING **: pushing data on non-negotiated pad mpegdemux0:private_1, not allowed.
[03:09] <azeem> aki_: they conflict, AFAIK
[03:09] <|trey|> grahame: apt-get install totem-xine if you haven't already  :)
[03:09] <grahame> ah, right.
[03:09] <grahame> I thought they were keen actually using gstreamer :)
[03:09] <linux_mafia> grahame, install totem-xine, get libdvdcss package from marillat repo
[03:10] <linux_mafia> grahame, then bob is a guy who had sex with your aunty
[03:10] <grahame> linux_mafia,|trey|: thanks
[03:10] <|trey|> grahame: for extra measure... search apt-get.org for 'w32codecs' and add the source that states "marillat" to your sources.list... then apt-get install w32codecs ffmpeg
[03:11] <grahame> |trey|, shouldn't need w32codecs just to play stock DVDs though :)
[03:11] <|trey|> grahame: but its handy to have the extra codecs around...
[03:11] <linux_mafia> grahame, yeah thats just for covering all your base
[03:11] <|trey|> grahame: everything from Quicktime to Real to MS's codecs should work...
[03:12] <linux_mafia> the css package is really the most important though
[03:13] <Xordan> :/ Getting a 'kenel not found in API'/'no kernel found for this system' error while installing on athlon64. I've got the right distro, and the MD5 is correct
[03:14] <|trey|> Every day I have at least 10 packages to upgrade... I heart Ubuntu  8)
[03:15] <Xordan> I wish I could install it :/
[03:16] <|trey|> Xordan: able to install Debian? you really just need 'deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main restricted'
[03:17] <|trey|> Just choose "install packages manually" when asked...
[03:17] <Xordan> I havn't tried debian, I didn't see a 64-bit version on their site
[03:18] <|trey|> Xordan: AMD64 works... not official yet though... http://www.debian.org/ports/
[03:18] <Xordan> ok thanks
[03:18] <slicky> thanks for the tip on XINE and codecs, works like a charm!
[03:19] <|trey|> slicky: yw  :)
[03:19] <|trey|> Xordan: AMD64 is considered by many to be stable... however it was decided that Sarge wouldn't be held back to get it in  :/
[03:20] <bitserf> hmm, interesting. is tom lord employed by canonical?
[03:20] <linux_mafia> whos "tom lord", sounds like a porn star name, heh
[03:21] <azeem> bitserf: ugh, why do you think that?
[03:21] <|trey|> linux_mafia: hahah, my thoughts exactly 
[03:21] <azeem> bitserf: because people of the arch community are employed? :)
[03:21] <Xordan> |trey|: is there a minimal CD for tha amd64 version of debain?
[03:21] <Xordan> or is it a general one
[03:22] <|trey|> Xordan: I think there is a d-i netinst for it... hold on
[03:22] <bitserf> azeem: indeed :)
[03:22] <Xordan> I'm installing on a XFS FS, if that matters
[03:22] <aki_> TX for xine / codecs / libdvd --> worked great!
[03:24] <linux_mafia> Xordan, all parts xfs?
[03:24] <|trey|> Xordan: ahh, nope, I don't see it  :(
[03:24] <aki_> can i install ubuntu on an exter. firewire HD for PPC G5?
[03:24] <Qerub> website: :-)
[03:24] <website> hi Qerub 
[03:25] <website> hi to all
[03:25] <linux_mafia> Xordan, do you have ext3 /boot and xfs / ?
[03:25] <Xordan> no
[03:25] <Xordan> I've got xfs / and then a swap
[03:26] <Xordan> I don't have a /boot
[03:26] <Xordan> I don't see why I can't install unbuntu :/
[03:26] <Qerub> website: i can't even find where the splash is located...
[03:27] <Xordan> it's like someone has put the wrong kernel in the iso :/
[03:27] <linux_mafia> Xordan, there are a couple of bug reports on ubuntu bugzilla about xfs partitions, check those, may help
[03:27] <Xordan> I've tried on ext3 as well
[03:27] <iDunno> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.8537444623/faq_view
[03:27] <Xordan> same problem
[03:27] <website> Qerub, so are you sure that it is free software?
[03:27] <iDunno> ^ suggests there's a live CD, anyone know where the image is?
[03:27] <Qerub> website: canonical is dedicated to providing only free software or something :-)
[03:28] <website> ok... so
[03:28] <website> does anybody know something on usplash or Mad Phat Splash ?
[03:28] <linux_mafia> Xordan, oh ok
[03:28] <website> like where can i find the sources ? ----> alredy looked on google
[03:28] <linux_mafia> Xordan, what mobo? sata or ide?
[03:29] <Xordan> K8N mbobo and ide
[03:30] <Xordan> Everything seems to go fine unti 80% :s
[03:32] <linux_mafia> Xordan, ok, just did a ubuntu install the other day for a friend, asus k87v deluxe ( is that right?) and a sata drive, amd 64, flawless, i was impressed
[03:32] <Xordan> :(
[03:32] <lypanov> ubuntu?
[03:32] <lypanov> daily maybe?
[03:33] <Xordan> in what folder is the kernel in on the disk?
[03:35] <bitserf> website: it would appear its in design phase? or thats what it looks like from wiki..
[03:35] <Xordan> linux_mafia: the release version?
[03:35] <bitserf> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fusplash ?
[03:36] <website> bitserf, yes i'm reading this page
[03:36] <website> but i'm looking for sources (of hte daaemon and the scripts)
[03:36] <bitserf> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fImages: scroll down :)
[03:36] <sabdfl> website: it didnt make it for warty, we'll get it into the hoary archive and test it properly for the Hoary release
[03:37] <linux_mafia> Xordan, no, preview
[03:37] <Xordan> ok
[03:37] <Xordan> Preview is what's not working for me :/
[03:37] <Xordan> hmm
[03:37] <Xordan> can I do a net install?
[03:37] <website> sabdfl, i'm working to implemets it on debian system
[03:38] <Xordan> like gentoo's?
[03:38] <website> bitserf, i scrolled down but i don't look at the source package
[03:38] <website> Xordan, better than it
[03:38] <sabdfl> Xordan: yes, i think it's possible to do netinst, but you'll have to find someone who knows the magic invocation
[03:38] <Xordan> lol
[03:40] <bitserf> sabdfl: what will be ubuntu policy on patches to upstream sources? kept to a minimum?
[03:40] <sabdfl> bitserf: publish as soon as we make them, minimalist
[03:41] <bitserf> sabdfl: wondering what is the likely hood of possibility to remove metacity minimize animation effect aside from switching wm, as havoc will never make that change :|
[03:41] <sabdfl> is it not a gconf pref perhaps?
[03:44] <website> sabdfl, yes, but where can i download the sources?
[03:45] <sabdfl> we never made a release, it was too broken
[03:45] <sabdfl> we will release it early during the hoary development cycle so it can get lots of testing
[03:45] <sabdfl> talk to npmccallum and sladen
[03:46] <website> ok
[03:46] <website> thanks
[03:46] <sabdfl> should be out within a month or two, once warty is behind us
[03:46] <sabdfl> check the haory feature goals list on the wiki
[03:46] <sabdfl> hoary, even
[03:47] <Treenaks> gah! I miss my emacsish keybindings
[03:47] <Treenaks> (ctrl+u, ctrl+k, etc.)
[03:49] <bitserf> sabdfl: there's just one big "disable all effects" knob. oh well :)
[03:49] <sabdfl> bitserf: gnome :-P
[03:50] <bitserf> damn, this is nice...like using sid without having to put up with periodic segfaults and loss of critical functionality :)
[03:51] <bitserf> committing to gnome release dates was a very clever idea
[03:53] <jsubl2> bitserf, yeah that was one of the things that drew me in.  
[03:55] <daniels> lypanov: glad to hear it :)
[03:58] <Treenaks> Ubuntu is great for learning python.. almost everything is Python-based :)
[04:00] <andrey_> Did anyone have success with a prism54 based wireless card on ubuntu?
[04:02] <Xordan> yes
[04:02] <Xordan> well
[04:02] <Treenaks> 4yes
[04:02] <Xordan> in the bit of the install that didn't fail
[04:02] <Treenaks> I'm using one right now
[04:02] <Treenaks> I only had to download the firmware myself...
[04:04] <sabdfl> andrey_: i think that firmware is being added for the final release, you might want to try tomorrow's daily cd
[04:05] <sap> so are there people employed to work on this distro full time?
[04:05] <andrey_> Hmm... I'm trying to get it loaded during the install part. But it appears the hotplug system isn't set up properly at that stage...
[04:07] <andrey_> sabdfl: when ubuntu does network detection /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug points to /sbin/hotplug which doesn't exist...
[04:07] <sabdfl> andrey_: during the initial install? yes
[04:07] <sabdfl> we won't be able to fix that before release
[04:07] <sabdfl> so that cause problems if you want to install with that as your primary nic
[04:08] <sabdfl> we need to fix debian installer a lot to get that bit right, i believe that will be done for hoary
[04:08] <sabdfl> see bugzilla for the relevant bugs
[04:08] <andrey_> sabdfl: ok. So you're recommending to install without network support and add it in later?
[04:08] <sabdfl> andrey_: yes
[04:08] <sabdfl> andrey_: or use a wire :-)
[04:09] <andrey_> sabdfl: Ok :) Thanks for your help.
[04:09] <sabdfl> in fact, it should come up immediately after the first boot during the install
[04:09] <sabdfl> because by then you have hotplug etc in place
[04:09] <sabdfl> it's just the cd-boot that doesn't have it
[04:10] <sabdfl> can cause some ugly problems if eth0/1/2 get switched after that first reboot though
[04:11] <lypanov> daniels: btw. any chance you'll fix the whole apt-get install ruby thing?
[04:11] <lypanov> daniels: it would be wonderful if ubuntu got a proper apt-get command line tool :)
[04:11] <lypanov> daniels: (merging of apt-get and apt-cache, listing of close matches when a pkg doesn't exist, etc)
[04:12] <bitserf> can someone test for me...when you move a window, does the cursor change to an ugly unthemed cross for you as well?
[04:13] <lypanov> bitserf: i tried to move my window but it cracked :(
[04:13] <bitserf> :P
[04:13] <WW> bitserf: I get a black + (don't know about "ugly unthemed", though)
[04:14] <lypanov> i'm serious! why did u tell me to try it? :(
[04:14] <lypanov> my window frame is all screwed up now :(
[04:14] <bitserf> WW: it seems inconsistent with the rest of the cursor theme to me..
[04:14] <lypanov> i couldn't find the mouse either :( so i tried using my keyboard as a lever to move the window
[04:14] <lypanov> by smashing it into it a few times really hard
[04:14] <lypanov> and the window cracked :(
[04:15] <bitserf> lypanov: right, i'll not ask you to mount or fsck anything then either :)
[04:15] <lypanov> lol
[04:16] <lypanov> oh. i found the mouse at last :)
[04:16] <bitserf> WW: all the other cursors have drop shadows, but the cross doesnt
[04:16] <lypanov> mouse is all bloody now :( couldn't use that to move the window either :(
[04:16] <WW> bitserf: I see what you mean... everything else is white, with a black outline.
[04:19] <daniels> lypanov: aptitude's probably pretty close to what you're after
[04:19] <lypanov> daniels: headless box :)
[04:20] <daniels> lypanov: aptitude's console
[04:20] <lypanov> eek
[04:20] <daniels> lypanov: if our ruby packages are lacking, you're always welcome to join up and help fix them :)
[04:21] <lypanov> daniels: probably will do
[04:21] <lypanov> daniels: heard of rpa?
[04:21] <daniels> can't say I have, sorry
[04:21] <lypanov> daniels: rpa-base.rubyforge.org (iirc)
[04:21] <lypanov> daniels: ruby production archive
[04:21] <lypanov> daniels: like. a maintained cpan :)
[04:21] <daniels> itneresting
[04:21] <lypanov> daniels: (i.e with debian quality q&a)
[04:22] <bitserf> lypanov: perhaps a virtual package should be created that mirrors a stock matz ruby installation
[04:22] <toothpick> Synaptic doesn't look anything like what I am familiar with in ubuntu.
[04:22] <lypanov> bitserf: yup. double and tripple nod
[04:22] <bitserf> lypanov: i'm working on a script that will generate .deb/.rpm from RPA ports for peepz who want to take snapshots
[04:22] <toothpick> It doesn't have stuff categorized by game and such.
[04:22] <toothpick> it just is one huge massive list of files.
[04:22] <lypanov> bitserf: sweet. i was just thinking of doing the same :P
[04:23] <bitserf> lypanov: perhaps we could join forces :)
[04:23] <lypanov> bitserf: could we have a apt-source on the rpa site then?
[04:23] <lypanov> bitserf: i'm very interested in testing and being a critic if your in need :P)
[04:23] <lypanov> bitserf: but not sure if i can put too much time into coordinated work at the moment unfortunately
[04:24] <WW> toothpick:  Hmmm... I my Synaptic, the left panel shows Sections.
[04:24] <WW> s/I my/In my/
[04:24] <lypanov> bitserf: how far along are you?
[04:24] <toothpick> I'll run it again and check
[04:24] <bitserf> lypanov: great...i've got a 140loc script that generates .rpm atm, as that was very easy...but i'm working on doing it properly now with support in RPA proper for platform-specific output
[04:25] <lypanov> bitserf: very nice
[04:25] <bitserf> lypanov: i'd say a day or two of uninterrupted hacking
[04:25] <lypanov> bitserf: are there rpm bindings for ruby btw?
[04:25] <lypanov> er
[04:25] <lypanov> or debian
[04:25] <toothpick> ww I see...I have to change it to sections...before it must have defaulted to that.
[04:25] <lypanov> i don't fancy switching to a rpm distro :)
[04:25] <bitserf> lypanov: nah, but no need for that...just call out to 'rpmbuild'. Debian will be a first class citizen though, have no fear. :)
[04:25] <lypanov> bitserf: e.g, having the ability to script system mirroring  in ruby would just rock :)
[04:26] <lypanov> bitserf: yay :>
[04:26] <lypanov> umm
[04:26] <lypanov> keychain?
[04:26] <bitserf> lypanov: the interesting problems arise when you want the generated packages to be dependency-correct for the target distro. especially if they're not pure-ruby, but C extension modules :>
[04:26] <bitserf> anyhow, lets not hijack this channel =)
[04:27] <lypanov> bitserf: yer thats the evil part of course :|
[04:27] <lypanov> how do i use the debian non-us keychain pkg?
[04:37] <jeedee> Anyone has a clue why the installer can't mount my cd? (After the country select)
[04:43] <lypanov> h
[04:43] <lypanov> umm dum di da
[04:43] <lypanov> is keychain in universe maybe?
[04:44] <lypanov> archive. is kinda slow here :(
[04:44] <lypanov> gzip: stdin: not in gzip format
[04:44] <lypanov> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main Sources
[04:44] <lypanov>   Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[04:44] <lypanov> :(
[04:44] <JanneM> wrong time of day, really
[04:45] <toothpick> After installing new items with apt-get how do I add them to my gnome menus automatically or do I need to manually add them?
[04:45] <toothpick> for example gcompris
[04:45] <JanneM> hm
[04:45] <JanneM> if they are set up for it, they should add themselves automagically
[04:46] <JanneM> most gnome and kde apps are
[04:46] <toothpick> ok thanks
[04:46] <JanneM> if not, you will need to create a .desktop file yourself
[04:46] <toothpick> ok
[04:46] <toothpick> like chromium is a fun game that wasn't added
[04:46] <JanneM> ok
[04:46] <JanneM> mm
[04:46] <deFrysk> man this ditro rocks
[04:46] <deFrysk> :)
[04:46] <JanneM> heh
[04:46] <JanneM> yep
[04:47] <deFrysk> distro even
[04:47] <JanneM> even though it is prerelease, it does have a feel of being done _right_
[04:48] <toothpick> The fonts are nie.
[04:48] <toothpick> nice rather.
[04:48] <deFrysk> waiting for xorg and its complete
[04:49] <lypanov> JanneM: its because they have a clue :)
[04:49] <JanneM> mm
[04:49] <lypanov> yay :>
[04:49] <lypanov> keychain in universer :>
[04:49] <toothpick> Will xorg have newer fonts?
[04:50] <slicky> how do I mount a USB pocket-drive?
[04:50] <deFrysk> toothpick, and transparency support
[04:51] <deFrysk> debian on steroids :)
[04:52] <slicky> dmesg tells me: USB Mass Storage device found at 68
[04:54] <sanitario> slicky: shouldn't it be auto-mounted? 
[04:54] <sanitario> slicky: check Computer -> Disks
[04:57] <zack_> hi
[04:57] <zack_> I need some help
[04:57] <zack_> with Ubuntu
[04:58] <zack_> can someone help?
[04:58] <zack_> please?
[04:59] <sanitario> zack_: try to say what you need help with instead
[04:59] <zack_> ok. I wanted to know if there is anyway I can change APT-GET to install things from the DEBAIN database instead of from the UBUNTU database. I want to download prgrams
[05:01] <sanitario> zack_: it's not recommended, check the faq
[05:05] <slicky> still no luck with USB pocket-drive
[05:05] <_axel> hmm, i cant get nautilus to thumbnail my videos, even though i have gnome-media installed... i think this is related to me removing totem yesterday... is there any gconf key i must change or what?
[05:06] <slicky> a process usb.agent keeps running up the cpu every few minutes
[05:07] <slicky> dmesg reads it as SCSI instead of sda, is this the way it should be?
[05:07] <Treenaks> slicky: what do you think the "s" in "sda" stands for?
[05:07] <slicky> ?? slicky maybe??
[05:08] <Treenaks> SCSI!
[05:08] <Treenaks> it should tell you something like
[05:08] <sanitario> _axel: I think you could do a dpkg-reconfigure nautilus, and choose not to use totem? 
[05:09] <Treenaks> scsi1 : SCSI emulation for USB Mass Storage devices
[05:09] <Treenaks>   Vendor: Apacer    Model: DISC Steno CF     Rev: 0420
[05:09] <Treenaks>   Type:   Direct-Access                      ANSI SCSI revision: 02
[05:09] <Treenaks> Attached scsi removable disk sda at scsi1, channel 0, id 0, lun 1
[05:09] <Treenaks> USB Mass Storage device found at 6
[05:09] <Treenaks> (something like that, with your device's parameters..)
[05:09] <slicky> yes, indeed. Something like that
[05:09] <_axel> sanitario: hmm, it doesnt ask me anything
[05:10] <sanitario> _axel: no, I noticed that now also... it does in debian, old habits die hard
[05:10] <slicky> I just don't have the good sense to know how to mount it ;(
[05:10] <Treenaks> slicky: nautilus should do that automagically..
[05:10] <_axel> sanitario: yup, same here
[05:11] <Treenaks> slicky: you may want to upgrade to the latest warty packages (it's still changing a bit..)
[05:11] <_axel> sanitario: thing is, i found this gconf key, /desktop/gnome/thumbnailers/video@x-avi/command which is set to totem-video-thumbnailer, but t-v-t is gone because i removed totem, but gst-video-thumbnailer doesnt seem to be installed either and i dont know what package provides it
[05:12] <slicky> I'm using fluxbox WM, guess I should go back to gnome for nautilus.
[05:12] <slicky> thanks for the help
[05:13] <zack_>  alright. I looked at the FAQ and I (do) want to do it. How do I do it??
[05:14] <scognito> hi all
[05:15] <zack_> hi
[05:16] <zack_> will someone tell me how to add debian sources to my APT-GET list?
[05:16] <zack_> i want to download from debian
[05:17] <scognito> zack_, add them at the bottom of your /etc/apt/sources.list 
[05:17] <scognito> (i think)
[05:17] <zack_> how do I do that?
[05:17] <scognito> btw anjuta is not in ubuntu...what i have to do? add debian sources.list or wait?
[05:18] <sanitario> scognito: anjuta is in universe
[05:18] <sanitario> I think
[05:18] <scognito> zack_, open /etc/apt/sources.list with your favourite editor
[05:18] <scognito> and add those line at the bottom of file
[05:18] <scognito> universe...
[05:18] <scognito> i missed something then, going to the site to look what universe s..
[05:18] <scognito> is..
[05:18] <Marble> any repository with mplayer compiled for ubuntu?
[05:19] <sanitario> scognito: uncomment the lines in /etc/apt/sources.list including universe and run apt-get update 
[05:21] <sanitario> _axel: maybe gstreamer-player-nautilus is what you need? 
[05:21] <Chriffer> gah this clicking problem is really annoying now
[05:21] <scognito> ok tnx sanitario
[05:22] <sanitario> _axel: or gstreamer0.8-player-nautilus
[05:22] <sanitario> _axel: don't know the difference
[05:26] <Mayday> for you xmms ppl: http://anka.org/henrik/humanxmms
[05:28] <frozen> hello i wanted to ask if there are some more servers that i can apt-get from, besides ubuntu.org?
[05:29] <thom> frozen: there's a list of mirrors on the web site
[05:29] <Mayday> frozen: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[05:29] <cybrjackle|lappy> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[05:30] <frozen> thanks
[05:36] <PeaceableFrood> Has anyone had any sucess with Xorg 6.8.1, mine compiles sucessfully but when I go to start up gnome all I get is a blank screen
[05:39] <cybrjackle|lappy> mine kept locking X up
[05:40] <PeaceableFrood> yeah that also happens
[05:40] <PeaceableFrood> hasn't happened on any other disto i used, just ubuntu
[05:42] <PeaceableFrood> I want me drop shadows though :P
[05:42] <psyklops> I support choice
[05:42] <PeaceableFrood> its also a learning experiance for myself
[05:43] <Mayday> i want a stable X :)
[05:43] <psyklops> heh... until 5 mins ago, gnome refused to stop the splash screen
[05:43] <Treenaks> psyklops: I have that... until I click it
[05:43] <psyklops> found out it had something to do with ~.gnome2/session
[05:43] <Treenaks> I think it has something to do with sloppy focus
[05:43] <psyklops> so I deleted it
[05:44] <psyklops> and now it starts smooth
[05:44] <psyklops> some program in there was causing it... I don't know what
[05:45] <psyklops> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116814
[05:45] <psyklops> thats the bug right there
[05:46] <psyklops> I have another problem at the moment
[05:46] <psyklops> my forwarding script is not working... and I don't have the understanding of its workings to fix it
[05:46] <psyklops> so my other computer isn't online
[05:47] <psyklops> this is in dmesg
[05:47] <psyklops> FORWARD packet died: IN=eth0 OUT=eth0 SRC=151.37.240.85 DST=68.202.204.241 LEN=5 1 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=111 ID=9787 PROTO=UDP SPT=6348 DPT=6348 LEN=31
[05:47] <psyklops> eth1: no IPv6 routers present
[05:47] <psyklops> eth0: no IPv6 routers present
[05:47] <defendguin> does ubuntu inclue binary dirvers for things such as wireless cards?
[05:47] <psyklops> ... wait... in and out are the same...
[05:47] <psyklops> should they be the same?
[05:48] <psyklops> should be in eth0 out eth1... I'd think
[05:49] <psyklops> anyone got an idea?
[05:49] <psyklops> maybe another channel would be more relevent eh
[05:51] <Treenaks> psyklops: what are you trying to do?
[05:52] <psyklops> it USED to forward packets from eth0 to eth1 (and then to the other computer)
[05:52] <psyklops> now its not
[05:53] <Treenaks> psyklops: how did you create this rule?
[05:54] <psyklops> with some automated script generator
[05:54] <psyklops> http://www.e3.com.au/firewall/index.php
[05:55] <igster> i think i did something really dumb
[05:55] <igster> i accidentally removed the sudo package :|
[05:55] <igster> am i screwed?
[05:55] <psyklops> oops?
[05:55] <igster> yes, major oops
[05:55] <igster> thought i was upgrading
[05:56] <lothario> help me please...
[05:56] <lothario> I just did an upgrade and now can't boot into Ubuntu
[05:57] <psyklops> you too eh...
[05:57] <moyogo> that doesn't sound good
[05:57] <lothario> there was a message about error on line 15 or some such...
[05:57] <igster> any chance i can recover from this?
[05:57] <moyogo> igster: can you boot in single-user mode?
[05:58] <lypanov> igster: reboot and start with "linux init=bin/sh"
[05:58] <lypanov> er
[05:58] <lypanov>  /bin/sh/
[05:59] <igster> ok.  i'll give it a try.  thanks.
[05:59] <bolivar> can one change the color thats displayed in the background when the splash screen is loading?
[06:00] <lypanov> does "single" require passwd in ubuntu?
[06:00] <lypanov> because if it does you won't get in :)
[06:00] <thom> no, we're not that stupid
[06:00] <thom> if the password is locked, you get in :-)
[06:00] <thom> if the password is not locked, you get asked
[06:03] <WW> lothario: Do you happen to know which packages were upgraded?  I upgraded a little while ago, but I haven't rebooted since.  Maybe I shouldn't...
[06:03] <lothario> I don't have the list handy, but more than 50 were upgraded
[06:04] <Treenaks> I keep seeing ";))" when I look at the "wireless connection" thingy in my panel
[06:05] <igster> just wanted to pop back in and say thanks.  :-)
[06:05] <WW> Does synaptic (or apt) have a log, so I can see what was updated when?
[06:05] <lypanov> igster: worked? :)
[06:05] <lypanov> thom: lol
[06:05] <lypanov> thom: clever guys :)
[06:05] <igster> it did work lypanov
[06:05] <lypanov> igster: linux single would also work :)
[06:06] <Treenaks> hey! why does ubuntu use xpdf instead of gpdf by default?
[06:06] <PeaceableFrood> seemed I fixed my Xorg problem
[06:06] <lothario> what did you do igster??
[06:06] <WW> Treenaks: That's in a faq on the wiki
[06:06] <PeaceableFrood> had to do with the mouse being pointed to the wrong device
[06:07] <Treenaks> WW: oh wait.. wiki != main site
[06:07] <lypanov> lothario: reboot with "single"
[06:07] <igster> lothario: i removed sudo by accident :/
[06:07] <lypanov> lothario: then fix the broken file :)
[06:07] <lothario> what is the broken file??
[06:07] <igster> gotta run.  thanks again.  
[06:07] <lypanov> i don't know :)
[06:12] <Treenaks> is it possible to add a "item count" to directories on my desktop, without making my ~ the desktop?
[06:12] <WW> Has anyone else had trouble rebooting after a recent upgrade?
[06:12] <defendguin> hmmm i guess i got disconnected
[06:13] <defendguin> im trying to install ubuntu on my laptop and it is not detecting my wireless card and it is saying that i may need to load a modulefor my card but when i go back to that step it does not allow me to manually do anything
[06:13] <defendguin> i feel that if i get a chance to load the right module it will work but i need that oppertunity. how can i manually load a kernel module during the install  to get my wireless card working
[06:13] <Treenaks> defendguin: what kind of card do you have?
[06:14] <WW> grub was in my most recent upgrade, and that got borked, it would be bad.  Maybe I'll wait awhile before rebooting.
[06:14] <Treenaks> defendguin: you can only install if your card does not require loading firmware
[06:14] <WW> s/and that/and if that/
[06:15] <defendguin> Treenaks, its a linksys WPC11 ver 4
[06:15] <defendguin> some people have had success with the tulip driver
[06:16] <Treenaks> defendguin: you're trying to install via wireless?
[06:16] <defendguin> well i dont have a ethernet port
[06:16] <Treenaks> ('the tulip driver' is for wired network cards..)
[06:17] <defendguin> thats what the linksys site says concerning this card
[06:17] <Treenaks> ok.. WPC11.. is that wireless or not?
[06:17] <defendguin> wireless
[06:17] <defendguin> lol
[06:17] <Treenaks> which chipset?
[06:17] <WW> lothario: I figured out my recent updates by looking at the dates of the files in /var/cache/apt/archives
[06:17] <Treenaks> defendguin: prism2? madwifi? prism54?
[06:18] <WW> lothario: eg.  ls -l | grep "Sep 25"
[06:18] <defendguin>  realtek 8180 chipset
[06:18] <Treenaks> defendguin: that won't work, realtek requires ndiswrapper
[06:18] <Treenaks> or whatever it's called
[06:18] <Treenaks> afaik
[06:18] <defendguin> :((
[06:18] <WW> Doh! lothario ain't here...
[06:19] <defendguin> Treenaks, the disk has enough on it for a full debian install?
[06:19] <defendguin> whoops
[06:19] <defendguin> full gnome
[06:19] <gommans> I want to try ubuntu.
[06:20] <Treenaks> gommans: go ahead :)
[06:20] <gommans> How can I create a backup of my entire linuxpartition?
[06:20] <Treenaks> defendguin: the disk is enough for a full install, but ndiswrapper is not part of that
[06:20] <Treenaks> gommans: where do you want to abckup to?
[06:20] <Treenaks> gommans: another disk? tape? CD-ROM?
[06:20] <gommans> hd or dvd
[06:21] <gommans> shoud I use dd?
[06:21] <defendguin> Treenaks, so i really dont "need" a network connection for an install
[06:21] <gommans> *should
[06:21] <Treenaks> gommans: no, there's something with cpio
[06:22] <Treenaks> gommans: first, create a partition that's large enough and format it
[06:22] <WW> lothario: I found out that grub was updated with my last upgrade.
[06:22] <gommans> a new partition?
[06:22] <gommans> can't I use a live-cd (I run mepis atm)?
[06:22] <lothario> WW, any suggestions on what I should change mine to??
[06:23] <Treenaks> gommans: you could
[06:23] <gommans> can I use dd then?
[06:23] <Treenaks> gommans: you could also install ubuntu on that new partition...
[06:23] <lothario> I just changed back to the earlier grub and still couldn't boot into Ubuntu
[06:23] <gommans> Treenaks: I do not really have the space on my machine to do that.
[06:24] <Treenaks> gommans: you don't have the space to install ubuntu, but you have the space to copy your current install?
[06:24] <mxpxpod> mdz: spamassassin is unsupported software?
[06:24] <WW> lothario: Sorry, not sure what to do.  I booted OK this morning, and my upgrade since then updated base_files, bash, grub and xresprobe.
[06:24] <gommans> To dvd: yes
[06:24] <gommans> disk: a windows partition I need atm
[06:25] <WW> lothario: I recommend continued nudging of experts to see if they can help.
[06:28] <lothario> I don't understand the error message:
[06:28] <lothario> Kernal Panic:VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block (0,0)
[06:28] <lothario> Do I have to start again and reinstall Ubuntu?
[06:32] <JanneM> lothario: that is a kernel crash all right. What happens if you try to reboot?
[06:33] <Deft> lothario: what is your kernel command line?
[06:33] <lothario> I run into that error message, it all began after I did an upgrade
[06:34] <lothario> Deft, I'm sorry I don't know what that means
[06:34] <Deft> from the grub menu, you can press e to edit the config; the line starting "kernel..." is the line that selects the kernel and passes it arguments
[06:35] <lothario> kernel   /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-2-386.dpkg-tmp root=/dev/hdb1 ro quiet splash
[06:36] <Deft> and what's the root line?
[06:36] <frozen> hellp
[06:36] <lothario> (hd1,0)
[06:36] <frozen> i use UNBUNTU,AMD64,RADEON 9880, LG F700P
[06:36] <frozen> and i can't change the resultoin
[06:36] <frozen> can anyone please help me?
[06:37] <frozen> it don't allow me to change it from 640x480
[06:37] <Deft> lothario: the only thing I can think of then is that you device.map isn't correct; can you boot into linux from another install/livecd?
[06:38] <lothario> Deft: I'm operating on a different distro at the moment
[06:38] <Deft> then try mounting your ubuntu root, and checking its /boot/grub/device.map
[06:39] <frozen> can anyone help me?
[06:39] <ish> dist an apt-get upgrade get new kernrel images?
[06:40] <lothario> It says: (hd0) /dev/hda   (hd1) /dev/hdb   (hd2) /dev/hdc
[06:40] <Deft> lothario: or are you installing grub from the other distro? sorry, should have checked that before
[06:40] <frozen> :/
[06:41] <lothario> the other distro uses lilo
[06:41] <bagpuss> you'll have p fogive me being unresponsive...I'm up to my armpits in hardware shit/
[06:41] <frozen> hello i use UNBUNTU,AMD64,RADEON 9880, LG F700P and i can't change the resultoin can anyone please help me? it don't allow me to change it from 640x480
[06:41] <lothario> the failed reboot was using the grub bootloader
[06:41] <bagpuss> the new installer is lovely, but why does expert mode still prompt me as to whether I want to start PCMCIA twice?  Surely once is sufficient
[06:42] <Deft> lothario: so you boot from grub to lilo for your other distro?
[06:42] <Treenaks> frozen: it's called ubuntu, and what/how have you tried?
[06:42] <lothario> No, the grub has this distro as an other OS entry
[06:42] <bagpuss> and it's now prompted me *three* times to load a floppy module...the system doesn't have a floppy drive
[06:42] <truk-away> Kernal Panic:VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block (0,0)
[06:42] <truk-away> you said (1,0)
[06:43] <truk-away> that's wrong
[06:43] <lothario> lilo isn't being used, though I'm thinking about reconfiguring it to point at the Ubuntu install 
[06:43] <bagpuss> ooh, third time for PCMCIA as well :(
[06:43] <frozen> Treenaks: first i tryed to change it in gnome it didn't worked then i changed the driver in the X config to: radeon, it didn't worked again.
[06:43] <Deft> lothario: uh, ok, it sounds fine in the config files then; you shouldn't need to do any more than reinstall grub (grub-install)
[06:44] <mojo> heuy
[06:44] <mojo> I got same prob
[06:45] <mojo> kernel panic VFS
[06:45] <WW> Now I'm _definitely_ not rebooting!
[06:45] <Treenaks> frozen: does /var/log/XFree86.0.log tell you anything meaningful?
[06:45] <chapeaurouge> reiserfs4 not compiled into kernel?
[06:45] <frozen> nope sec i will try it
[06:46] <Deft> chapeaurouge: it's not in the kernel at all yet is it?
[06:46] <chapeaurouge> Deft: doesn't seem to be... just tried to modprobe it... was wondering if ubuntu had the patch applied.
[06:46] <chapeaurouge> bc the reiserfs4 userspace utilies are installed.
[06:47] <chapeaurouge> but no, it's not in vanilla kernel yet.
[06:47] <frozen> Trennaks: all seems to be fine in the XFree86.0.log
[06:47] <frozen> btw it can't detect my monitor
[06:48] <frozen> it found my card
[06:48] <Deft> frozen: is yout monitor dvi?
[06:48] <frozen> nope
[06:48] <frozen> i got: LG f700p
[06:49] <frozen> (**) |   |-->Monitor "Generic Monitor"
[06:49] <frozen> (**) |   |-->Device "ATI Technologies, Inc. Radeon 9800 Pro (R350 NH)"
[06:50] <Treenaks> frozen: did you select the resolution you want during X configuration?
[06:50] <Treenaks> frozen: (sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86)
[06:50] <frozen> sec
[06:51] <frozen> Enter the amount of memory (in kB) to be used by your video card.
[06:52] <Treenaks> frozen: keep empty
[06:52] <frozen> ok
[06:52] <frozen> Use kernel framebuffer device interface? 
[06:52] <Deft> no
[06:52] <frozen> Please select the XKB rule set to use.
[06:53] <frozen> leave it Xfree86?
[06:53] <Deft> yes
[06:53] <lothario> No Dice ;(
[06:53] <frozen> Please choose your mouse port. 
[06:53] <Treenaks> frozen: don't change
[06:54] <Treenaks> frozen: change nothing until you arrive at the "monitor" stuff
[06:54] <frozen> Write default Files section to configuration file?  
[06:55] <Treenaks> yes
[06:55] <frozen> Write default DRI section to configuration file?
[06:55] <Treenaks> yes
[06:55] <frozen> finished..
[06:55] <frozen> nothing about monitor..
[06:56] <Treenaks> nothing about 'what resolution do you want' ?
[06:56] <frozen> nothing..
[06:56] <Deft> frozen: open you /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file
[06:56] <Deft> *your
[06:56] <frozen> opened
[06:56] <Deft> go down to the screen section
[06:57] <frozen> o
[06:57] <frozen> i'm there
[06:57] <Deft> what colour depths/resolutions are listed?
[06:58] <frozen> depths: 1 , 4, 8, 15,16,24
[06:58] <frozen>              Modes           "1280x800" "1200x800" "1152x864" "1152x768" $
[06:59] <Deft> ok, it's probably the monitor, go up to that section
[06:59] <frozen> i'm there
[06:59] <Deft> and check for HorizSync and VertRefresh
[07:00] <frozen>         HorizSync       28-33
[07:00] <frozen>         VertRefresh     43-72
[07:00] <frozen>         Identifier      "Generic Monitor"
[07:00] <Treenaks> horizsync is a bit low.. even my ancient monitor had 29--66 there
[07:00] <Deft> yeah, they're too low; trying running "sudo xresprobe dummy"
[07:00] <Treenaks> but don't change it, it might fry your monitor
[07:01] <Deft> if that doesn't give you any rates, your monitor manual is the best hope
[07:01] <frozen> Abudbul:/home/frozen# sudo xresprobe dummy
[07:01] <frozen> id:
[07:01] <frozen> res:
[07:01] <frozen> freq:
[07:01] <Treenaks> or the windows "driver"
[07:01] <Treenaks> (what kind of monitor is it?)
[07:01] <Deft> or the lg website
[07:01] <frozen> LG F700P
[07:02] <frozen> it's a really good monitor..
[07:02] <frozen> works gr8 on win
[07:02] <frozen> really strange :/
[07:03] <Deft> have you installed ati binary driver?
[07:03] <frozen> you mean the RPM?
[07:03] <frozen> i can't, it's fro i386
[07:04] <frozen> i got AMD64
[07:04] <chutwig> the athlon 64 is still an IA32 processor
[07:04] <Deft> the driver is in the ubuntu archive, there are instructions on the site
[07:05] <frozen> on the ubuntu site?
[07:05] <Deft> yes
[07:05] <Deft> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[07:05] <frozen> it should work with the AMD64?
[07:05] <Treenaks> frozen: the manual on the website says
[07:05] <Treenaks> 30-98kHz horizontal
[07:05] <Treenaks> 50-160Hz vertical
[07:05] <Treenaks> so that's
[07:06] <Treenaks> HorizSync 30-98
[07:06] <Treenaks> VertRefresh 50-160
[07:06] <frozen> Treenaks: you said it might kill my monitor..
[07:06] <Treenaks> then try again
[07:07] <Treenaks> frozen: these are the values from the LG F700P manual
[07:07] <Treenaks> frozen: which means they should work
[07:07] <Deft> (restart with sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart)
[07:08] <frozen> so what should i do change the X config or, Download the binary drivers?
[07:08] <Treenaks> frozen: change X config
[07:08] <Treenaks> frozen: then restart gdm
[07:09] <krischan> people, did anybody install a client for the eDonkey network on Ubuntu? Either by apt-get or manually? More precisely, I'd like to know if can use packages made for Debian.
[07:09] <frozen> so i change the conf and then do this cmd: sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart ?
[07:09] <Deft> frozen: I just mention the drivers because you might well be disappointed with the speed until you have them
[07:09] <Deft> yes
[07:10] <frozen> what is GDM?
[07:10] <frozen> lest time i did things like this it fucked my Hd ;/
[07:10] <Deft> gdm is the display manager, it provides the login screen and whatever; and makes using X easier
[07:12] <frozen> ok now i will restart the x and then i will do what you said
[07:12] <bagpuss> damn this thing installs a LOT of python stuff
[07:13] <bagpuss> 123 python* packages
[07:13] <frozen> damn
[07:13] <frozen> i saved a file
[07:13] <frozen> on the desktop
[07:13] <frozen> and when i restarted it disaperd
[07:14] <frozen> Treenaks : what was the numbers again?
[07:14] <frozen> Deft : what was the command?
[07:15] <Treenaks> frozen: 19:06 < Treenaks> HorizSync 30-98
[07:15] <Treenaks> 19:06 < Treenaks> VertRefresh 50-160
[07:15] <frozen> and the command?
[07:15] <Deft> sudo invoke-rc.d gdm restart
[07:16] <frozen> thanks 
[07:17] <J-> Anyone else had trouble installing Ubuntu?  I've got the Bugzilla error report 1751 that someone else filed:  ipw2200 causes infinite loop of death
[07:24] <jeedee> Anyone has a clue why the installer can't mount the install cd after the country select screen?
[07:25] <bagpuss> is universe available as an aptable source as yet?
[07:25] <Deft> bagpuss: it always has been
[07:25] <bagpuss> I can't find any information on the wiki about what the correct source-fu is
[07:26] <Deft> just select the source in synaptic (ie. it's in your sources.list, just commented out)
[07:27] <bagpuss> ah, okay
[07:27] <deFrysk> make sure to comment the old one
[07:28] <bagpuss> hmm, why?
[07:28] <deFrysk> double repo entry
[07:28] <Deft> the universe source refers to main as well
[07:28] <bagpuss> and?  That shouldn't be a problem
[07:28] <bagpuss> ah, okay
[07:29] <deFrysk> geeze darn autocomplete
[07:30] <bagpuss> might be saner to not do that
[07:32] <bagpuss> oh yuck...cd automount?  How do I turn that off?
[07:32] <bob2> bagpuss: computer -> desktop settings -> removable devices
[07:33] <bagpuss> bob2: from console
[07:33] <bob2> bagpuss: the only thing that would be automounting cds is gnome-volume-manager
[07:33] <bagpuss> okay
[07:34] <bagpuss> guess this is why I don't like gnome :)
[07:34] <bagpuss> that's unfair
[07:35] <bob2> hm?
[07:35] <bagpuss> unfair of me to blame gnome because it defaults to something that probably mopst people want (although I don't)
[07:36] <bob2> ah
[07:36] <bob2> yeah
[07:40] <bagpuss> ah well, another 30 minutes or so and I'll ahve kde :)
[07:40] <bagpuss> nice installer in the main
[07:41] <scognito> in which package is strict.pm?
[07:41] <scognito> i've perl and perl-base
[07:41] <Deft> the only issue I have with cd auto start, is that most windows cds do something pointless when you put them in
[07:42] <bob2> scognito: do you mean for "use strict"?
[07:42] <scognito> yes
[07:42] <bagpuss> scognito: perl-base
[07:42] <scognito> bagpuss, i've it
[07:42] <bagpuss> scognito: dpkg -S strict.pm
[07:42] <scognito> perl-base: /usr/share/perl/5.8.4/strict.pm
[07:43] <scognito> don't know why fakeroot doesn't find it
[07:43] <bagpuss> thet's where it is then
[07:43] <scognito> i have to add this path
[07:43] <scognito> but WHERE? :)
[07:44] <bagpuss> fakeroot shouldn;t need strict.  It's a shellscript
[07:45] <scognito> Can't locate strict.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc....blah....) at /usr/bin/dh_testdir line 9.
[07:45] <bagpuss> what does that have to do with fakeroot?
[07:46] <scognito> oh sorry, i use fakeroot but it isn't its problem
[07:46] <scognito> btw where i can set that path?
[07:46] <bagpuss> what package are you trying to build?
[07:47] <scognito> mplayer
[07:47] <scognito> btw i got tons of error because i had 0MB left on device
[07:47] <scognito> i need to reboot
[07:52] <_Hiro_> when I click my gaim or terminal icon (on a gnome panel) 2 gaims or 2 terminals open??
[07:52] <_Hiro_> how can I stop that
[07:52] <azeem> eh, you don't double-click, right?
[07:52] <_Hiro_> no
[07:52] <_Hiro_> of course not :)
[07:53] <azeem> just checking :)
[07:53] <_Hiro_> 1 click opens 2 windows
[07:53] <_axel> i think thats a bug in xfree86config iirc
[07:53] <_axel> there's some answer for that in the faq
[07:58] <_Hiro_> nothing in the FAQ :/
[07:58] <tvon> Is usb drive mounting working for people?
[07:58] <tvon> I heard it should. Just plugged in a thumb drive and its found in daemon.log but its not mounted 
[07:59] <tvon> hrm
[07:59] <tvon> hal aint workin
[08:03] <_axel> _Hiro_: i think it's related to having 2 different "mouse" sections in /etc/X11/XFree86Config-4 but i cant remember the details, examinate that file
[08:04] <_axel> _Hiro_: and backup before changing stuff ;)
[08:04] <_Hiro_> _axel yes it seems to be X related, I'm searching bugzilla now :)
[08:06] <chapeaurouge> bonjour Mirno 
[08:07] <whiprush> found it _Hiro_ 
[08:07] <Mirno> chapeaurouge,   Merci (sorry for the french BTW)
[08:07] <whiprush> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1417
[08:07] <chapeaurouge> Mirno: np ;) i found it quite amusing ;)
[08:08] <_Hiro_> ah thx a lot, been searching bugzilla but nothing turned up :)
[08:08] <martink> bagpuss: because you have to login if you do more than reading bugs?
[08:09] <bagpuss> martink: yeah...but you surely wouldn't use a secure password for bugzilla
[08:10] <JoshTriplett> Hi.  I've been a Debian user for a long time, and I wanted to give some feedback after trying out Ubuntu.
[08:10] <daniels> JoshTriplett: sure
[08:10] <_Hiro_> ah indeed it had 2 mice configured and was using them :s
[08:11] <chapeaurouge> hmmm.. ncurses-devel not in universe...
[08:11] <martink> bagpuss: next guess: because of the sabdfl's past? ;)
[08:11] <JoshTriplett> First of all, the good points: excellent installation (most of which was d-i, but I liked the customizations for less questions), and nice initial setup.
[08:11] <JoshTriplett> Unfortunately, I had several quibbles with the resulting setup.
[08:12] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: go ahead
[08:12] <JoshTriplett> The default installation seems to hang whenever a power management event occurs, such as closing the lid or unplugging the power.
[08:12] <bagpuss> martink: that sounds far more likely. Although given his past, it's strange that the ssl cert and the hostname don't match :)  (presumably that's just not been gotten around to yet)
[08:13] <sivang> howdy all, what's cooking?
[08:14] <JoshTriplett> The installer easily detected my network card and configured the network, but then chose to install packages via CD.  When I rebooted, it then downloaded 30 minutes worth of updates.  (That's on DSL.)  If it had used the network in the first place, it wouldn't have needed to do that.
[08:15] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: intent is to respond sensibly to power management events, but we might get the config exactly right for your hardware, then that'll require tweaking
[08:16] <sabdfl> ping mjg59 or thom
[08:16] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: i think we may be introducing a question "do you want to download updates now" to the installer
[08:16] <JoshTriplett> You have one.
[08:17] <JoshTriplett> What I'm suggesting is that they not be "updates", but instead that it uses the network if it has it to do the *initial installation*.
[08:17] <sivang> sabdfl : i thought this was already combined into the installer; ?
[08:17] <JoshTriplett> That way, I don't have to install everything from CD, then install everything again from network.
[08:17] <sabdfl> sivang: yes, it's in already, JoshTriplett confirms
[08:17] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: It asked in base-config.
[08:18] <bagpuss> The only quibble I have with the installer is it asked me *3* times whether I wanted to start card services and 3 times whether i wanted to load a module for linux-floppy.  Surely once is enough in each case?
[08:18] <JoshTriplett> Hmmm; no problems there. :)
[08:18] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: we copy everything from cd to hdd so the install is quick, and in fact, i don't think it does the install+upgrade, i think it just uses the updated ones rather than the hdd version if you download updates
[08:18] <thom> sabdfl: yo?
[08:18] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Interesting.
[08:18] <sabdfl> bagpuss: haven't seen that behaviour, could you file a bug in bugzilla.ubuntu.com please?
[08:19] <bagpuss> sabdfl: okay
[08:19] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: On the power management issue, were you saying I should ping mjg59 or thom, or were you just trying to do so by mentioning their nicks?
[08:20] <thom> JoshTriplett: what laptop
[08:20] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: they are the guys you can ask about acpi support on your specific hw
[08:20] <Chriffer> my computer had 3 mice configured in XF86Config-4 thaths pretty silly
[08:20] <thom> and, have you ever had working acpi support?
[08:20] <JoshTriplett> thom: Dell Inspiron 8100.
[08:20] <thom> there are many bugs in our BZ about Dell laptops and power
[08:20] <sivang> Chriffer : that may help you support all 3 kinds of them, whenever you plug them in or use another one actually ;)
[08:20] <thom> _many_
[08:21] <daniels> yeah
[08:21] <sivang> sivang : think if it as playing it safe kind of thing.
[08:21] <daniels> JoshTriplett: does your problem go away if you disable DRI?
[08:21] <daniels> if so, thom can sleep easier at night, and your bug is the infamous #1258
[08:22] <sivang> sabdfl : I am very interested in the pythonian front of ubuntu, do we have a mailing list for this specific team etc? any other resources?
[08:22] <sabdfl> sivang: no mailing list yet, good idea
[08:23] <JoshTriplett> thom: Sorry about that.  How much did you get?
[08:23] <JoshTriplett> thom: I got cut off.
[08:24] <sivang> sabdfl : i'd like that very much. What are intentions reagdring this? What about pyhtonizing the inner workings, configurations, mass installs etc?
[08:24] <Chriffer> I'll have to see if commenting out the other mice fixes all the multiclick problems
[08:24] <thom> JoshTriplett: last line from you: "< JoshTriplett> thom: Dell Inspiron 8100."
[08:24] <daniels> JoshTriplett: we got that you had an Inspiron 8100, which meant that your bugs were probably all related to the ATI driver
[08:24] <sivang> Chriffer : what kind of problem are you having?
[08:24] <thom> 19:21 < daniels> JoshTriplett: does your problem go away if you disable DRI?
[08:24] <thom> 19:21 < daniels> if so, thom can sleep easier at night, and your bug is the infamous #1258
[08:24] <Chriffer> omg I can click/drag the menus now
[08:24] <daniels> JoshTriplett: if disabling DRI (make sure dri, glx and GLcore aren't being loaded in XF86Config-4) fixes the problem, then that's #1258
[08:24] <daniels> yeah
[08:25] <sabdfl> sivang: we'll put python wherever we can :-)
[08:25] <JoshTriplett> daniels: I see.  I'll boot into ubuntu again and try that (after it fscks).
[08:25] <daniels> JoshTriplett: cool.
[08:25] <Chriffer> I had a few whacky pointing problems, doubletap the touchpad and dragging through menu's was picking up things for drag and drop before
[08:25] <daniels> i fully expect it's the ati suspend-during-dri snafu
[08:25] <JoshTriplett> daniels: See you in a few minutes.
[08:25] <Chriffer> And I ended up with a lot of multiclicks when launching apps
[08:26] <sabdfl> daniels: is that with the open source ati driver, or the blob?
[08:26] <daniels> sabdfl: open-source
[08:26] <daniels> sabdfl: we have issues up the hizzle with suspending while dri is active (#1258), that I suspect *might* be solved with X.Org
[08:26] <sabdfl> daniels: ok, at least it's fixable by someone we know :-)
[08:26] <daniels> sabdfl: then again, X.Org seems to break BIOS detection on PowerPC
[08:26] <daniels> sabdfl: heh :) unfortunately I've never had a laptop with ATI 3D
[08:27] <thom> JoshTriplett: #1459 is also a possibility :/
[08:27] <daniels> sabdfl: (a little too innovative for the Mach64, and I'm being sucked into this X40 rubbish)
[08:27] <thom> doh
[08:27] <sabdfl> Chriffer: there should only be /dev/input/mice in your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 fila AFAIK
[08:27] <Chriffer> I commented out the 2 items that werent listed as touchpad
[08:27] <Chriffer> in the layout section I think it was
[08:27] <Chriffer> seems to be fine now
[08:28] <daniels> thom: is there arelly anything we can do about bogus dsdt?
[08:30] <thom> daniels: short of laying holy fire down on the laptop manufactures, not really
[08:30] <daniels> sabdfl: I'd suspect thus that the i810 crash-during-xresprobe thing would be one of the first X hardware bugs to go ;)
[08:30] <daniels> thom: yah
[08:30] <thom> SATA disks are terrifyingly cheap
[08:31] <daniels> thom: maybe in gbp
[08:31] <thom> daniels: just bought 400GB for 100GBP
[08:31] <thom> hrm, no. 140GBP
[08:31] <daniels> thom: !
[08:31] <thom> (2x200GB disks)
[08:31] <daniels> that is *ludicrous*.
[08:31] <gommans> is xfce4 available for ubuntu?
[08:32] <thom> gommans: it's in universe, i believe it built
[08:32] <thom> daniels: cool huh
[08:32] <daniels> unfortunately video cards are still stupid expensive
[08:32] <thom> software raid here i come ;-)
[08:32] <daniels> the cheapest r4xx I can use is about $au700
[08:32] <daniels> heh :)
[08:32] <bagpuss> what "component" does the installer come under?
[08:32] <daniels> i got 200GB for about $au160
[08:32] <daniels> bagpuss: debian-installer?
[08:32] <Chriffer> the XFce seemed to use the defoult setup
[08:32] <daniels> that wasn't sata, mind
[08:33] <gommans> ok
[08:33] <thom> bagpuss: debian-installer
[08:33] <Potn> sztok
[08:33] <bagpuss> thanks
[08:33] <bagpuss> filed
[08:34] <JoshTriplett> Nope, that didn't do it. :(
[08:34] <JoshTriplett> Still hung.
[08:35] <JoshTriplett> In /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, I deleted the Load lines for glx and dri, and removed the dri section.
[08:35] <daniels> JoshTriplett: look like #1459, maybe
[08:35] <daniels> JoshTriplett: you restarted X after you did that, right?
[08:35] <JoshTriplett> daniels: I did it from Debian by chrooting, then booted Ubuntu. :)
[08:36] <daniels> ah, heh
[08:36] <JoshTriplett> daniels: BTW, you need to update your SSL certificate: I got a warning saying bugzilla.ubuntu.com was trying to use the certificate for bugzilla.no-name-yet.com . :)
[08:36] <daniels> yeah, it's probably #1459 then. time for me to sleep, in any case; 'night all.
[08:36] <daniels> JoshTriplett: yeah, known issue
[08:36] <JoshTriplett> Night.
[08:36] <JoshTriplett> Checking that bug...
[08:36] <psyklops> does this channel have a bot?
[08:37] <psyklops> channel, room... *ahem*
[08:37] <JoshTriplett> That bug could very well be the issue; Dell has buggy BIOSen.
[08:38] <mdz> mxpxpod: spamassassin is in universe
[08:39] <JoshTriplett> One note, though: the bug comments that Ubuntu could include the updated DSDTs for various laptops, but that isn't the case.  In most cases, the fixed DSDTs are generated by extracting the one from the system and tweaking it; therefore, it would be proprietary to the system manufacturer.
[08:39] <thom> there's a similar looking report for a 4100 on the users list, btw
[08:39] <JoshTriplett> thom: I wouldn't be surprised.

[08:40] <thom> using apm fixed it :(
[08:40] <JoshTriplett> thom: Well, I guess I could just boot with acpi=off apm=on .
[08:40] <JoshTriplett> thom: :)
[08:40] <JoshTriplett> thom: Why the sad face? :)
[08:40] <bagpuss> that's better, KDE :)
[08:40] <thom> well, kinda suckful that you don't get fun-filled acpi support :-)
[08:40] <thom> JoshTriplett: give it a whirl, let us know
[08:41] <JoshTriplett> thom: Fun-filled.  That's one way of putting it.  I seriously dislike ACPI. :)
[08:41] <JoshTriplett> thom: "Here's some proprietary bytecode, run it in ring 0."
[08:41] <JoshTriplett> thom: Not that APM is much better.
[08:41] <thom> heh. true enough, sadly
[08:42] <thom> and the situation ain't likely to get better in the future
[08:42] <thom> :/
[08:42] <mxpxpod> mdz: ah, ok
[08:43] <krischan> Can it be true, Ubuntu comes without the usual compiler suspects, such as gcc and g++!
[08:43] <JoshTriplett> Another issue: the autodetection handled X configuration wonderfully, except for the DPI of my LCD.  This made all the fonts headache-inducingly small. :)
[08:43] <AP> i found a bug, ps\2 mice just wont work :\
[08:43] <AP> 2 boxes and 2 mice ive tried
[08:44] <JoshTriplett> (I was quite impressed that it handled the resolution and driver correctly, though; please push those bits back to Debian. :) )
[08:44] <JoshTriplett> What part of the installation is doing X autodetection and setup?
[08:45] <JoshTriplett> Some minor nits: who is responsible for the changes to the /etc/skel files for bash?
[08:45] <thom> krischan: they're on the cd. 'apt-get install build-essential'
[08:46] <whiprush> hey JoshTriplett, you mentioned you had a dell 8100?
[08:46] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: Yes.
[08:46] <thom> JoshTriplett: X postinst script, in combination with xresprobe, which we more-or-less lifted from redhat and thrashed till it did what we needed
[08:46] <whiprush> have you ever done a bios update?
[08:46] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: I haven't, but every time I send it to Dell they do.
[08:46] <whiprush> a friend of mine did and had better luck with power support.
[08:46] <JoshTriplett> thom: Heh.
[08:46] <whiprush> oh.
[08:47] <JoshTriplett> thom: Does it handle DPI?
[08:47] <JoshTriplett> thom: Because 75dpi fonts on a 135dpi screen are painful. :)
[08:47] <bagpuss> so id universe basically just debian/sid compiled against warty?
[08:48] <thom> bagpuss: yep
[08:48] <thom> JoshTriplett: um, can't remember
[08:48] <bagpuss> anything missing from it?
[08:48] <JoshTriplett> thom: Also, who is responsible for ~/.bash_profile and ~/.bashrc in Ubuntu?
[08:50] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: they appear to belong to the bash package, so whoever is responsible for that
[08:51] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: OK. :)
[08:51] <JoshTriplett> The issue is that the default files have some minor typographical errors.
[08:51] <thom> JoshTriplett: i think npmccallum last really touched them
[08:51] <JoshTriplett> Such as saying "The rest of this file is commented out", but then that not being the case.
[08:52] <thom> but i'm a committed zsh die hard, so *shrug* :-)
[08:52] <thom> bagpuss: stuff that didn't compile is missing :-)
[08:52] <WW> JoshTriplett: That was filed as a bug, and was supposedly fixed.
[08:52] <JoshTriplett> WW: Ah.
[08:52] <bagpuss> according to the changelog, lamont last touched bash
[08:53] <bagpuss> thom: is there a list of stuff that didn't compile anywhre?
[08:53] <JoshTriplett> Another one: I ended up with a /dead.letter containing various debconf notes. :(
[08:53] <thom> JoshTriplett: yeah, that's the installer
[08:54] <thom> bagpuss: not that i'm aware of
[08:54] <npmccallum> JoshTriplett: file a bug on those files please
[08:54] <JoshTriplett> WW: Filed, yes.  Fixed, apparently not.
[08:54] <JoshTriplett> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1536
[08:54] <JoshTriplett> npmccallum: OK.  Just use BugZilla?
[08:55] <JoshTriplett> Argh; perhaps you could disable the requirement to have a BugZilla account?  BugZilla is already more painful than debbugs; don't make it worse. :)
[08:56] <WW> JoshTriplett: oh
[08:58] <JoshTriplett> npmccallum: Apparently filed already. :)
[08:58] <bagpuss> thom: is it only packages from main considered?
[08:58] <thom> currently, yes. that may well change
[08:59] <bagpuss> okay
[08:59] <JoshTriplett> One annoyance with sudo: I like that you set it up by default instead of a root account, but perhaps you could add NOPASSWD: ?
[09:00] <whiprush> cbaoth: ping
[09:01] <thom> JoshTriplett: ye gads no :-) we're trying to teach people good habits, not lazy ones :-)
[09:02] <JoshTriplett> thom: On a personal machine, if they break into your personal account, they can trash everything important.  I can install a new system in a few minutes; my home directory is the only irreplaceable item.
[09:02] <JoshTriplett> thom: So I made my account equivalent to root.
[09:03] <JoshTriplett> Finally, the real blocker issue for me continuing to use Ubuntu: I was never given so much as a prompt, yet I have non-free software on the resulting installed system, and it was on the CD.  Put all that on the web archive if you must, and ask before using it from there.
[09:06] <bagpuss> looks like 1879 binary packages not ported
[09:07] <JoshTriplett> Or is there some objection to doing that?
[09:09] <crimsun> JoshTriplett: NOPASSWD would only exacerbate the problem
[09:09] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: What problem?
[09:09] <crimsun> of trashing one's system using that compromised acct
[09:09] <cbaoth> whiprush: pong
[09:09] <ich> hi
[09:09] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Well, regardless, that's a minor issue.
[09:09] <ich> whats up with lineakd 0.8?
[09:10] <whiprush> cbaoth: your theme thing still broken?
[09:10] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: The non-free-by-default issue is my primary concern.
[09:10] <crimsun> which non-free?
[09:10] <bagpuss> where the hell is debchange?
[09:10] <ich> i just got it throught apt-get and now my config is fuc**d up, evrytime i try to start i get an xlib error.
[09:10] <bagpuss> oh, devscripts I think...ignore me
[09:10] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Ubuntu "restricted" packages.
[09:10] <cbaoth> whiprush: Nope, an apt-get upgrade seems to have fixed it.
[09:10] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Installed by default, with no prompt, and included on the CD.
[09:10] <crimsun> JoshTriplett: hmm, "by default?"
[09:10] <crimsun> mine wasn't.
[09:10] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: In the base system.
[09:11] <whiprush> cbaoth: hmmm, now mine is broken. lemme upgrade
[09:11] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: And included in /etc/apt/sources.list too.
[09:11] <crimsun> i had to manually edit sources.conf after all three installations
[09:11] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: s/conf/list/ :)
[09:11] <crimsun> it should remain commented out after a default install
[09:12] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Should?  Yes. :)
[09:12] <JoshTriplett> From the default sources.list:
[09:13] <JoshTriplett> deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 4.10 _Warty Warthog_ - Unofficial i386 Binary-1 (20040915)] / unstable main restricted
[09:13] <JoshTriplett> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main restricted
[09:13] <JoshTriplett> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main restricted
[09:13] <JoshTriplett> And several more for security.
[09:13] <crimsun> did you answer "yes" to downloading software from the 'net during the install?
[09:13] <bagpuss> is restricted equivalent to "non-free" then?
[09:13] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Yes.
[09:13] <krischan> thom: regarding "install build-essential", is that some kind of pseudo-package?
[09:13] <crimsun> bagpuss: essentally.
[09:13] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: For ubuntu packages, apparently.
[09:13] <crimsun> essentially^
[09:14] <bagpuss> krischan: yes
[09:14] <crimsun> JoshTriplett: ah, that's why. i agree that should be clarified in the dialogue.
[09:14] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: I agreed to install packages from the net.  I didn't agree to installing non-free packages.
[09:14] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: And that doesn't explain the first line, nor having non-free packages on the CD.
[09:14] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: No, it should be separated, not clarified.
[09:15] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: "Do you want packages from the net?"  and "Do you want non-free packages?".
[09:15] <crimsun> a subtle compromise must be struck
[09:15] <whiprush> yes, more questions = bad.
[09:15] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: I don't mind the default being "yes", as long as the question is asked and the packages are not on the CD.
[09:16] <JoshTriplett> s/I don't mind/& much/
[09:16] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: As for "installed by default":
[09:17] <^Fr0zeN^> Deft
[09:17] <^Fr0zeN^> Treenaks
[09:18] <Treenaks> ^Fr0zeN^
[09:18] <^Fr0zeN^> i'm back on windows :/
[09:18] <^Fr0zeN^> the xfree changes fucked the linux
[09:18] <^Fr0zeN^> so i need to reinstall
[09:19] <^Fr0zeN^> Treenaks where did you find the LG manual?
[09:19] <Deft> you can boot into single user linux and rerun xfree setup
[09:19] <Treenaks> ^Fr0zeN^: google :)
[09:19] <Deft> but I have to go, so, good luck
[09:19] <Treenaks> look for "lg f700p manual" (without ""), second hit, "view as HTML:
[09:19] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Both linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-2-386 and nvidia-kernel-common  were installed by default.
[09:20] <^Fr0zeN^> ok thanks man
[09:20] <Treenaks> ^Fr0zeN^: you can also look on www.lge.com (co.uk is b0rken atm)
[09:21] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Those packages were also included on the CD.
[09:21] <^Fr0zeN^> thans
[09:21] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: (This was the stock warty CD.)
[09:21] <^Fr0zeN^> thanks
[09:22] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: Is that what you used for the three installations you say ended up with no non-free software?
[09:22] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: nvidia-kernel-common is GPL according to its copyright
[09:23] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Sounds like a bug. :)
[09:23] <JoshTriplett> Anyway, if that really were true, why would it be in "restricted"?
[09:23] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: go file it :)
[09:23] <crimsun> JoshTriplett: yes
[09:23] <JoshTriplett> crimsun: So how did I end up with non-free stuff then?
[09:24] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: the kernel-restricted package seems to be non-free.  The copyright is huge
[09:24] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Well, it's a bug one way or another; either the package shouldn't be in restricted, or it shouldn't have GPL in the copyright.
[09:24] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: I know that parts of the kernel modules are (dubiously) GPLed.
[09:25] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Regardless, it still would need to be in whatever you want to call "contrib".
[09:25] <bagpuss> the HAL, NVIDIA and ATI licenses are definitely non-free
[09:26] <theantix> hal?
[09:26] <JoshTriplett> theantix: nVidia's hardware abstraction layer.
[09:26] <Sirius_Black> is anyone here that dual boots ubuntu with winxp?  I wanna know what their /etc/fstab line looks like
[09:26] <Treenaks> ah, not freedesktop's hal
[09:26] <bagpuss> the MADWIFI copyright seems to be a dual BSD/GPL license
[09:26] <JoshTriplett> theantix: The dubiously GPLed glue.
[09:26] <JoshTriplett> Treenaks: Right.
[09:26] <theantix> ah, ndvidia's hal... that makes more sense =)
[09:26] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Except that it includes binary objects.
[09:27] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: firmware?
[09:27] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: No, objects.
[09:27] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Part of the driver.
[09:27] <bagpuss> yuck
[09:27] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: (Not that firmware would be any better.)
[09:27] <^Fr0zeN^> Treenaks i need to change this in the conf:
[09:27] <^Fr0zeN^> H-Scanning Frequency : 30 - 96 kHz
[09:27] <^Fr0zeN^> V-Scanning Frequency : 50 - 160 Hz
[09:28] <bagpuss> I'm in two minds as to binary only firmware (I've written firmware and sometimes binary only makes sense)
[09:28] <Treenaks> ^Fr0zeN^: they're called differently, but yes
[09:28] <^Fr0zeN^> ok :P what the worst that can happen?
[09:28] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Perhaps it makes sense, but not from a Free Software perspective.
[09:29] <Treenaks> ^Fr0zeN^: uh, most monitors from > 1997 turn off when the frequencies are too high
[09:29] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: sure it does.  I've written foirmware using a hex editor.  Why the hell should you have more source than *I* had when I wrote it? :)
[09:29] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: In that one narrow case, sure, it can be binary only. :)
[09:29] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Be sure to document the fact that the binary _is_ the preferred form for modification.
[09:29] <Treenaks> bagpuss: yeah, but didn't you comment yours?
[09:29] <JoshTriplett> Treenaks: Also an important point. :)
[09:29] <bagpuss> Treenaks: how exactly do you coment a few hundred bytes of hex?
[09:30] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: With comments? :)
[09:30] <Treenaks> bagpuss: with jumps to jump over the comment :)
[09:30] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: 0xadfe3498c4389ba21f56ffff023ad
[09:30] <bagpuss> bah
[09:30] <bagpuss> Treenaks: :)
[09:30] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Put it in a text file, like the C stuff you see encoded as binary strings.  Add comments.
[09:30] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Then convert it to hex with a simple script.
[09:31] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Or better yet, write an assembler. :)
[09:31] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: But anyway, comments aren't required either if you didn't have any when you wrote it.
[09:31] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: that firmware I wrote under an NDA anyway (last NDA I'll ever sign unless I'm starving), so it really wasn'tyan issue
[09:31] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: there are times when assembler isn't useful or appropriate
[09:31] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Glad to hear the parenthesized part. :)
[09:32] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Same here, except that I've never signed one. :)
[09:32] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: there *were* good reasons to sign it at the time.  In the exact same circumstances I'd think hard before deciding
[09:33] <ForsaKen> hello, i have just installed ubuntu, really nice :), but there is one thing i dont get, i created a user, it toled me that it will work like root, now i try to adduser from the user, and it wont let me, it is asking for a root pass, when i enter that users pass, it wont let me
[09:33] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Anyway, let's not get into that argument.
[09:33] <bagpuss> the world is rarely black and white
[09:33] <JoshTriplett> ForsaKen: sudo adduser blah
[09:33] <JoshTriplett> ForsaKen: Enter your user's password.
[09:33] <sivang> ForsaKen : tried sudo before the command?
[09:33] <ForsaKen> sudo hmm
[09:33] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: It is if you decide to treat it that way. :)
[09:33] <ForsaKen> i dont even know what is it, do you have a url i can read about it ?
[09:34] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: I'm a cynical old fart, I see almost nothing in those terms these days :)
[09:34] <bagpuss> ForsaKen: man sudo
[09:34] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Anyway, my primary issue is with the fact that the non-free software is included, set up to install, and installed by default.
[09:34] <sivang> ForsaKen : just type under a terminal window
[09:34] <ForsaKen`> ok thanks
[09:34] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: I'm cynical as well, but I'm also idealistic.
[09:34] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: yeah, I can see why that's an annoyance.  Are those the only two packages?
[09:34] <sivang> ForsaKen : "sudo adduser <user_name>" and give your CURRENT user's password you set up on install
[09:34] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: The only two installed by default, yes.
[09:34] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: I'd say it was worthy of a bug anyway
[09:35] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: More are available, since sources.list was configured to include them.
[09:35] <ForsaKen`> ah so if i want to run commands that need root access, i soulde type sudo 1st ?
[09:35] <JoshTriplett> ForsaKen`: Right.
[09:35] <JoshTriplett> ForsaKen`: You never need to log in as root, which is good.
[09:35] <ForsaKen`> ohh i see
[09:35] <ForsaKen`> i dont even need to add a user
[09:36] <ForsaKen`> :) thanks
[09:36] <sivang> ForsaKen` : yeppers
[09:36] <ForsaKen`> i get it now, i tryed to updatedb, didnt work so i did, sudo updatedb worked :)
[09:36] <sivang> ForsaKen` : root is disabled by default as part of the warty security policy
[09:36] <sivang> ForsaKen` : just like mac os x uses it ;)
[09:36] <ForsaKen`> debian is my favorit dist, when i herd about ubuntu i did not wait 1 min and started downloading
[09:36] <ForsaKen`> and now i see, ownz
[09:37] <ForsaKen`> i got a usb mouse, it detected it + the scrool is working :)
[09:37] <bagpuss> hmm, that's a point
[09:37] <ForsaKen`> and apt-get, OWNZ
[09:37] <sivang> ForsaKen` : yes, as a debian lover I suppose you'd fall in love with it immidiately just as I did :-)
[09:38] <bagpuss> by defualt I would say root's mail should go to the first user configured
[09:38] <ForsaKen`> MAN THIS SHIT OWNZ
[09:39] <AP> indeed
[09:39] <whiprush> heh, sivang I'm the same way.
[09:39] <ForsaKen`> lol i need to get used to this sudo
[09:40] <AP> just sudo bash
[09:40] <AP> sudo bash is like su - in other distros
[09:40] <AP> :)
[09:40] <whiprush> ForsaKen`: make an alias, for like, s
[09:40] <robertj> hey all, anyone feel like doing some hand holding today?
[09:40] <whiprush> s apt-get install foo
[09:40] <robertj> I've never built gnome before but thought I would give it a go
[09:40] <whiprush> for example.
[09:40] <AP> no need to get used to anything
[09:40] <ForsaKen`> no, i like it as it is
[09:40] <ForsaKen`> i dont mind typing 4 more letters
[09:41] <sivang> whiprush : I was completely toxicated with debian when I first hit on it after suffering with redhat,mandrake and fedora - now I am hooked on ubuntu like my new drug ;-)
[09:41] <whiprush> heh
[09:41] <sivang> sivang : I am going to try spread ubuntu as a de facto bussiness os over my cousin's NYC based it consulting firm.
[09:41] <whiprush> you run linux long enough you end up in debian anyway, might as well start off right. :p
[09:41] <sivang> whiprush :  I am going to try spread ubuntu as a de facto bussiness os over my cousin's NYC based it consulting firm
[09:42] <whiprush> cool
[09:42] <AP> wow, just yesterday this channel had 100 people in it
[09:42] <AP> the ubuntu community is growing fast!
[09:42] <robertj> sivang: why are you trying to do that?
[09:43] <sivang> whiprush : he has only now started to realize the benefits of linux, but still loosing sleep's hours on broken redhat/mdk installation with rpm hell and code installations when he needs something unsupported ;)
[09:43] <sivang> when I first showed him what a debian system could mean to an administrator, he was amazed
[09:43] <robertj> sivang: what benefits is he after?
[09:44] <sivang> ease of administration, robustness, no reboots, no license fees - just earn out supporting the systems.
[09:44] <sivang> he came to realize that after you mastered the command line for a production system, it far more easy and far more logical administrating than a win box
[09:45] <robertj> sivang: its good stuff but Debian has next to no hardware support
[09:45] <robertj> I mean real support, not code in the kernel
[09:45] <JoshTriplett> robertj: Huh?
[09:45] <sivang> what the fu^%$?
[09:45] <^Fr0zeN^> ForsaKen` sup :D
[09:45] <robertj> sivang: like all of Dell's binary only stuff
[09:45] <JoshTriplett> sivang: Well, I was going to go with that, but I wanted to be polite.
[09:46] <bagpuss> blame dell
[09:46] <JoshTriplett> ditto
[09:46] <bagpuss> or just don't buy dell hardware if you can help it
[09:46] <ForsaKen`> =p
[09:46] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: Their laptops rule.
[09:46] <^Fr0zeN^> windows..
[09:46] <sivang> I have a 8200 inspiron, and even _without_ ubunut (which now supports it better) everything is working excellently!
[09:46] <^Fr0zeN^> :/
[09:46] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: not if they don't work without proprietary crap :)
[09:46] <whiprush> I'll probably stick with sarge for my servers for a while. Dunno if I want to try things like udev on a server just yet.
[09:46] <JoshTriplett> sivang: I've got an 8100. :)
[09:46] <robertj> I have a 2100 that is great
[09:46] <robertj> I bought it like 2 years ago new for $760
[09:47] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: They do work fine; I don't touch proprietary stuff.
[09:47] <robertj> 1.6 gig celeron with 512 megs of ram, dvd, and 30 gig hd
[09:47] <sivang> JoshTriplett : please elaborate on the laptops rulse
[09:47] <WW> "ubunut" :-)
[09:47] <JoshTriplett> sivang: I thought you said you had one?
[09:47] <sivang> robertj : I do, don't know anything about laptop rule?
[09:47] <sivang> JoshTriplett : I thought you said you had one?
[09:47] <sivang> oops
[09:48] <JoshTriplett> sivang: Heh.
[09:48] <sivang> please exucse my eye shortness
[09:48] <sivang> :)
[09:48] <sivang> Again, what is the problem with linux support in dell?
[09:48] <JoshTriplett> sivang: OK...
[09:48] <robertj> I like my ibook from work better though
[09:48] <JoshTriplett> sivang: None that I know of.
[09:48] <krischan> a question: One the console, the key-combination <CTRL>-<CURSOR-LEFT>|<CURSOR-RIGHT> doesn't behave as expected, i.e. jumping left and right word by word. Instead it prints "D" and "C", respectively, on the console. What's the cause for that?
[09:48] <JoshTriplett> sivang: My laptop works perfectly.
[09:48] <robertj> battery life trups all
[09:48] <sivang> robertj : please elaborate on the dell binary only thing?
[09:48] <robertj> sivang: i've heard all kinds of things about the binary only raid controllers causing problems
[09:48] <krischan> One the console = On the console
[09:49] <JoshTriplett> krischan: The console doesn't seem to support modified arrow keys.
[09:49] <JoshTriplett> krischan: Not by default, anyway.
[09:49] <robertj> things which require the 2.4 kernel with the funky redhat threads
[09:49] <robertj> that sort of thing
[09:49] <robertj> which I guess is just a 2.6 backport
[09:49] <lezard> Hy all
[09:49] <JoshTriplett> krischan: Also, Ctrl-{left,right} doesn't seem to work in a terminal either.
[09:50] <JoshTriplett> robertj: So basically, Dell's proprietary hardware that requires their proprietary RPMs.
[09:50] <krischan> JoshTriplett: What's the default terminal on Ubuntu, do you know that?
[09:50] <JoshTriplett> robertj: Again, blame Dell.
[09:50] <lezard> Can someone tell me if an kernel-source package exist ?
[09:50] <sivang> robertj : Oh, well i apologize for my language beforehand, I have used my dell withput problem under linux so this was sounding to me a bit like 'doze trollish words ;-) I apologize again.
[09:50] <JoshTriplett> krischan: Probably gnome-terminal.
[09:50] <thom> we have 6 dell servers at canonical, they all work fine
[09:50] <robertj> Josh: it's not "their" hardware
[09:50] <whiprush> dude, I know plenty of people with dell rackmounts all running debian.
[09:50] <robertj> They are just the largest distributor
[09:50] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: I'm just responding to his statement.
[09:50] <whiprush> ya I know.
[09:50] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: Either they are supported, or they aren't, but that's not the fault of GNU/LInux.
[09:50] <sivang> As a matter of fact, I was surprised to see that most of the laptop's thingies had already been supported open sourcely ;)
[09:51] <robertj> whip: but as far as supprot goes, its not there
[09:51] <JoshTriplett> sivang: I actually bought my laptop specifically with that in mind.
[09:51] <robertj> I'm sure someone will support you, but not without alot of cash donw
[09:51] <whiprush> well ... hp will sell you debian support if you pay enough.
[09:51] <whiprush> and now we have canonical.
[09:51] <robertj> whip: everyone has their price
[09:51] <sivang> JoshTriplett : me also ;) Although my gf still likes to ponder (and gets punished by that) with the supplied xp home
[09:52] <robertj> but realistically if you are a small business you probably can't get support
[09:52] <whiprush> right
[09:52] <sivang> so, to continue
[09:52] <robertj> XP is good stuff
[09:52] <krischan> JoshTriplett: Yes, that's clear, the properties of the "Terminal" tell that. How do you think could those key combinations be supported?
[09:52] <JoshTriplett> robertj: In the "good stuff, dude" drug sense, yes. :)
[09:52] <sivang> that guy over NYC has already started to use astrisk's linux to implement VoIP operators over his clients. Guess what he says about it?
[09:52] <sivang> :)
[09:52] <JoshTriplett> krischan: No idea. :)
[09:53] <JoshTriplett> krischan: I'd love to see it working, but that's not my area of expertise.
[09:53] <sivang> I have intention to package astrisk for ubuntu, I figure they'll make a great combination :-)
[09:53] <chapeaurouge> anyone tried to install bootsplash ?
[09:53] <robertj> I haven't looked but I would bet more users of Open Source software use it on Windows than on any other platform
[09:53] <chapeaurouge> i get an error when i try to install bootsplash pkg.. kernel already patched and recompiled.
[09:54] <JoshTriplett> robertj: Probably, given the sheer number of Windows users.
[09:54] <sivang> robertj : ahh, well, if you are experienced with open source enough, You would really quickly come to the conclusion that it's better used on an open source system like linux = my experience exactly 
[09:54] <sivang> mozilla runs far faster on debian than on xp home . heh
[09:54] <robertj> sivang: I can't tell the difference
[09:55] <JoshTriplett> bagpuss: So should I file the bug in BugZilla that Ubuntu shouldn't include the restricted archive in sources.list without asking, shouldn't include it on the CDs, and shouldn't install packages from it by default?  Should that be one bug, or several?
[09:55] <sabdfl> chapeaurouge: bootsplash wasn't stable enough for release in warty, so we pulled it from the feature list
[09:55] <robertj> Maybe my $300 computer is just so massively overpowered it doesn't matter
[09:56] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: that an argument on technical grounds?
[09:56] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: What is?
[09:56] <krischan> JoshTriplett: Okay, so we have the same problem ... if I'd only knew why and how it worked with the default Fedora terminal ...
[09:56] <bagpuss> JoshTriplett: I don't know that it's a bug as much as a policy disagreement.  More something to bring up on the mailing list than in bugzilla
[09:56] <sabdfl> your personal views on restricted
[09:56] <ForsaKen`> i got my sound installed, when i enter gnome sound, and do a test, working, but in team speak, i cant hear or talk, and it's saying that my sound is muted
[09:56] <robertj> Bagpuss: and AFAIK it's already settled
[09:56] <robertj> Restricted is a fact of life for ubuntu.
[09:57] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Not at all; it's an argument that I should never get non-free software without at least an "OK, that's fine".
[09:57] <robertj> Josh: it's not forced on you
[09:57] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: One single question one time is sufficient.
[09:57] <chapeaurouge> sabdfl: ok thanks.. im trying to make it work now, but i get an error.... cp: cannot stat `.orig': No such file or directory and such.
[09:57] <robertj> you are the one who downloaded it
[09:57] <JoshTriplett> robertj: Ubuntu?  No, it isn't. :)
[09:57] <sabdfl> restricted is there for a very specific purpose, it's fully redistributable
[09:57] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: So is most of Debian non-free.  Your point?
[09:58] <robertj> Josh: no, but most of chili isn't meat but vegitarians don't assume that it's meatless
[09:58] <robertj> And Ubuntu is not Debian
[09:58] <sabdfl> there aren't applications in restricted, only drivers
[09:58] <bagpuss> robertj: sure.  The website would seem to suggest that the main distribution should be free.  Perhaps that needs to be clarified.  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/philosophy/
[09:58] <JoshTriplett> robertj: True enough.  (I'm actually a vegetarian, so nice argument. :) )
[09:58] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: So?
[09:59] <sabdfl> so, we figure it's better to get free software installed on someone's computer than to leave it in a half-installed mess :-)
[09:59] <bagpuss> robertj: reading that, you'd be forgiven for being surprised if non-free stuff got installed
[09:59] <sabdfl> and then we get to make the real pitch for free software
[09:59] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: You don't need the nvidia drivers to install.
[09:59] <whiprush> I do.
[09:59] <sabdfl> you do on some hardware
[09:59] <bagpuss> sabdfl: I agree fully. I think the website is misleading on the point though
[09:59] <sabdfl> same goes for ati
[09:59] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: I know of no nVidia hardware that isn't supported by one of "nv", "vesa", or "fbdev".
[10:00] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Same for ati with s/nv/ati/
[10:00] <thom> certainly the very latest ati stuff needs the binary drivers
[10:00] <sabdfl> ati's new cards are not at all supported
[10:00] <thom> (or last i checked it did)
[10:00] <sabdfl> X800 or something
[10:00] <JoshTriplett> Regardless, that's called "hardware without Free Software support".
[10:01] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: And I think there is 2D support even for that.
[10:01] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: I could be wrong.
[10:01] <sabdfl> bagpuss: JoshTriplett: i'll have the website updated to be clearer that restricted software is installed
[10:01] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Thank you; that would at least be a warning label. :)
[10:01] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: which is why that code is in a separate component, trivial to remove
[10:01] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: And for that matter, mention that it is on the CDs by default.
[10:01] <ForsaKen`> where can i see a list of the apt-get mirrors ?
[10:01] <whiprush> ForsaKen`: there's a page on the wiki
[10:01] <ForsaKen`> becouse the one i got now is downloading at 20kbps
[10:02] <sivang> ForsaKen` : try the wiki, under ahive
[10:02] <whiprush> wiki.ubuntulinux.org
[10:02] <sivang> ForsaKen` : archive
[10:02] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: It would be highly preferable to only include it on the web, and use it if asked.
[10:02] <ForsaKen`> wiki ?
[10:02] <sabdfl> whiprush: we won't install non-free drivers if we can help it, they have really bad supportability
[10:02] <whiprush> yes, but at least it's easier in ubuntu
[10:02] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: doesn't exactly help someone who's wifi card and sole net access require the blob, does it?
[10:02] <sivang> ForsaKen` : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[10:02] <robertj> sab: I think a ! in device manager would be well served
[10:02] <robertj> Kinda like Windows gives for unsigned drivers
[10:03] <robertj> "Your driver is non-free and unsupported by Canonical"
[10:03] <sivang> windows.. ah...
[10:03] <sabdfl> robertj: that's a good idea, in hal device manager, alert the user appropriately
[10:03] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Regardless, suppose that someone did have hardware only supported by non-free drivers.  As long as it wasn't the network card, then a simple prompt for using non-free from the web archive would be fine.  If the install failed without saying "Yes", then that's their decision.
[10:04] <spiv> JoshTriplett: As long as it's not the network card, or the video card, or perhaps the raid controller, or ...
[10:04] <robertj> sab: OTOH, any vendors that play nice with Ubuntu shouldn't get any flack
[10:04] <robertj> just a little entry under properties "Call this number for support"
[10:04] <JoshTriplett> spiv: No, just as long as it isn't the network card.
[10:04] <sabdfl> fair enough, but we looked at it and 99% of people given the prompt say "yes", and the other 1% know how to remove restricted, so I vetoed the question
[10:04] <robertj> It would be kinda neat to have contact info as part of the device driver info
[10:05] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: we also put it in a separate component of the archive so that you can print a CD that doesn't have it
[10:05] <robertj> sabdfl: I think thats the right decision
[10:05] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Fine, then make a boot option, debian-installer/no-non-free=yes, and document it on the boot screens.  Regardless, it was _installed by default_; not just configured to install, but installed.
[10:05] <whiprush> that sounds reasonable
[10:05] <spiv> JoshTriplett: If there's a disk controller that needs proprietary software to work, then it's hard to install ubuntu, and use all the other 100% free software we have.
[10:05] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: And how about an official CD image that doesn't?
[10:05] <robertj> non-free=no seems like a reasonable option
[10:05] <JoshTriplett> spiv: Only if you say "No, don't go get the driver".
[10:05] <robertj> that way it makes rolling your own cd pretty easy
[10:05] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: we can have a cd image that doesn't yes, and we can have a boot option in Hoary, please put these on the wiki under Hoary Feature Goals
[10:06] <spiv> JoshTriplett: Believe it or not, not everyone has net access.
[10:06] <JoshTriplett> spiv: Then download the "non-free stuff" disk, or floppy.
[10:06] <robertj> although I would hope it didn't show up on the short list of boot shortcuts that some people will need to get their machine to boot at all
[10:06] <JoshTriplett> robertj: There are five pages of boot options; there's room. :)
[10:06] <spiv> JoshTriplett: Or put it on the spare space of the original CD...
[10:06] <whiprush> I just install vrms, which mails me monthly, that way I can attone for my sins.
[10:06] <bagpuss> I think this is something for later.  At the moment getting warty out the door seems more important
[10:07] <chapeaurouge> holy shit.. my computer running ubuntu just shut down!
[10:07] <robertj> Warty seems to be in good condition
[10:07] <sabdfl> chapeaurouge: did you not ask it to?
[10:07] <sivang> sabdfl : the cd encompasses a complete ubuntu install? I am installing over a dial in broadband, which means i have to vpn dial first before internet access.
[10:07] <robertj> The lack of a real update applet seems like a problem to me
[10:07] <chapeaurouge> sabdfl: ..
[10:07] <robertj> other than that, no complaints
[10:07] <chapeaurouge> second it happened.
[10:07] <chapeaurouge> time*
[10:07] <sivang> robertj : you can use synaptic to acomplish just that
[10:07] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Would it also be reasonable to ask for the no-non-free-included CD image to have non-free=no enabled by default?
[10:08] <tvon> PloneSolutions folks?  Q about PlonePortlets
[10:08] <robertj> sivang: I can and do
[10:08] <tvon> eg, is there a way I'm not seeing to control the order of the portlets?
[10:08] <sivang> robertj : ok
[10:08] <thom> 49 bugs of major or higher
[10:08] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: reasonable to ask, but i'm not going to change this for warty, and unlikely to do so for Hoary either
[10:08] <robertj> I'm worried about people not knowing about it
[10:08] <robertj> Mac OS X does it right
[10:08] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: As long as it's on the todo list; I'll come back to try Ubuntu again when it's done.
[10:08] <robertj> Nimrods get goaded into updating because of the dialog :)
[10:09] <tvon> hrm, wrong room
[10:09] <robertj> SP2 seems semi-sane though
[10:09] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: To be honest, it's a trivial change.
[10:10] <sabdfl> JoshTriplett: yes, it is, go ahead and make it, i encourage derivatives like that
[10:11] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Well, I personally am not likely to take the time to make such a change, because Debian has the correct behavior by default (except perhaps for the fact that it _possibly_ should ask instead of defaulting to no, for the benefit of some).
[10:12] <whiprush> debian isn't going anywhere.
[10:12] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: Nope.
[10:12] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: I'm aware of that.
[10:12] <whiprush> if it's that important to you use debian or do your own derivative.
[10:12] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: I do like Ubuntu though, and many of the changes it has made.
[10:13] <bagpuss> amazing
[10:13] <JoshTriplett> whiprush: If I didn't, I wouldn't be bothering to provide feedback to try to make it better.
[10:14] <bagpuss> abuse-sdl actualy *works* under ubuntu
[10:14] <bagpuss> and builds without error
[10:14] <whiprush> I suppose we'll agree to disagree
[10:15] <whiprush> on an unrelated note, the sound that clicks when you launch apps is the best ever.
[10:15] <bagpuss> http://www.clothcat.org/ubuntu/abuse
[10:15] <bagpuss> upload should be finishe din a few seconds
[10:15] <thom> hrm, i should turn sounds on, i guess
[10:16] <thom> or just reinstall :-)
[10:16] <robertj> also, anyone think the cd source needs to come out of /etc/sources.list?
[10:16] <sabdfl> bagpuss: is that in debian non-free or contrib?
[10:16] <thom> robertj: not really, why?
[10:16] <axe9> I need drivers for an HP PSC 1350xi all in one print
[10:16] <sabdfl> robertj: yes, it shouldn't be there if your network was detected during install
[10:16] <bagpuss> sabdfl: main
[10:16] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: Main, I think. :)
[10:17] <robertj> thom: because apts like "gimmme the cd'
[10:17] <bagpuss> sabdfl: it's the first package on my list of "stuff in debian main that appears not to be in ubuntu"
[10:17] <robertj> and most people probably wont have it handy
[10:17] <sabdfl> bagpuss: then it should be in universe already, if it isn't, please file a bug
[10:17] <axe9> Yo
[10:17] <bagpuss> well, besides aboot-base, which is asn alpha specific package, and I don't have an alpha to test it with
[10:17] <whiprush> wait, so if a package is in sid and not in universe we should file a bug?
[10:17] <JoshTriplett> axe9: Is it not in the huge list of printers available by default in Ubuntu?
[10:17] <whiprush> I was going to request it on the list instead.
[10:18] <axe9> my mom is pissed cause she can't print her paper, and...
[10:18] <axe9> noo
[10:18] <sabdfl> bagpuss: there are some packages which FTBFS'd and we haven't had time to nudge them yet, if you file a bug it will get taken care of
[10:18] <axe9> it's not
[10:18] <JoshTriplett> axe9: It should have been installed as part of foomatic-ppds.
[10:18] <axe9> looked through it a few times
[10:18] <sabdfl> whiprush: yes please
[10:18] <axe9> ?
[10:18] <JoshTriplett> axe9: Check linuxprinting.org
[10:18] <bagpuss> sabdfl: okay.  Do you have a list of the stuff that FTBFSd?  I'm probably going to keep working through the list I hacked up for myself otherwise
[10:18] <whiprush> ok. out of curiosity, do new packages in sid and whatnot get automatically pulled into universe for rebuild?
[10:18] <axe9> ARGH!
[10:18] <axe9> I fucking HATE when my mom uses the computer!
[10:19] <chapeaurouge> lol
[10:19] <bagpuss> upload finished
[10:19] <axe9> she pulled the monitor to the edge of the desk, and has the keyboard sitting on top of the fucking drawers!
[10:19] <bagpuss> sabdfl: what component should I file the bug against?
[10:19] <sabdfl> hmm... UNKNOWN
[10:19] <bagpuss> okay
[10:20] <thom> if you could give us the list of missing stuff, that might not be bad. i don't think we have a convenient copy
[10:22] <axe9> Why the hell is ther enot a drive for the HP PSC1350!!!
[10:22] <robertj> hrmm, I did apt-get install glade and now glade is not in my Applications menu
[10:23] <thom> robertj: glade2 is what you want
[10:23] <robertj> or glade-2 even ;)
[10:24] <axe9> where else can I get linuix drivers?
[10:24] <whiprush> what component should it be for a universe packaging request then?
[10:24] <robertj> its still not in there ;)
[10:24] <bagpuss> whiprush: there's a page on the wiki for that
[10:24] <whiprush> oh
[10:25] <whiprush> you mean UniverseCandidates?
[10:25] <whiprush> that looks like it's for packagers
[10:26] <thom> axe9: google suggests you want the hpoj package
[10:26] <JoshTriplett> sabdfl: I put the items on the HoaryHedgehog Wiki page.  Thank you.
[10:27] <thom> axe9: (apt-get install hpoj ; it's in universe)
[10:27] <lypanov> axe9: if you think you have problems
[10:27] <lypanov> axe9: you don't have a flatmate that deletes 12 gigabytes of your music collection because "he needed the space"
[10:27] <JoshTriplett> lypanov: That's called "Accounts with passwords".
[10:28] <axe9> ARGH!
[10:28] <JoshTriplett> lypanov: Your fault as much as theirs, though they still shouldn't have done it.
[10:28] <thom> it's called "Not giving out accounts" full stop
[10:28] <lypanov> JoshTriplett: no. his fault
[10:28] <axe9> why the fuck is tehre a goddamned towel under the chair!!!
[10:28] <lypanov> its his computer
[10:28] <JoshTriplett> thom: That too. :)
[10:28] <lypanov> my harddrive
[10:28] <JoshTriplett> lypanov: Hmmm; interesting situation.
[10:28] <thom> axe9: http://www.linuxprinting.org/pipermail/hp-list/2004q1/004800.html
[10:28] <lypanov> right P:(
[10:28] <lypanov> :(:(:(:(
[10:28] <thom> axe9: and dude, calm down
[10:28] <bagpuss> whiprush: what package is it you want?
[10:28] <axe9> lol
[10:29] <whiprush> rhythmbox-applet
[10:29] <whiprush> it's an applet with play controls basically.
[10:29] <JoshTriplett> axe9: From that message, the answer looks to be "use the PSC 1300 driver".
[10:29] <bagpuss> thom: where do you want the list of missing stuff sent?
[10:29] <JoshTriplett> axe9: Just pick that with the menu.
[10:30] <thom> bagpuss: devel list would seem to be reasonable, please :-) or attach it to the wiki
[10:30] <bagpuss> thom: okay
[10:31] <JoshTriplett> Anyway, it was fun trying out Ubuntu; thanks to all developers for the effort they've put in.
[10:32] <thom> cheers Josh
[10:32] <lypanov> JoshTriplett: :)
[10:33] <thom> man, i do wish mr Lucas hadn't screwed with the star wars films *again* for the dvd
[10:33] <bagpuss> sent
[10:34] <axe9> o...k
[10:34] <axe9> linkage :P
[10:36] <whiprush> that xmms skin for ubuntu that was posted on the list is cool.
[10:36] <ForsaKen`> a strange thing, when i do sudo apt-cache search kde, i dont seem to find any kde
[10:36] <ForsaKen`> at my friends house 3 houers ago it did found kde and he installed it
[10:36] <thom> ForsaKen`: that's a feature, but if you really want kde, you need to enable the universe repo
[10:37] <ForsaKen`> how do i do that ?
[10:37] <bagpuss> feature! bah! :)
[10:38] <ForsaKen`> hmm?
[10:38] <Kinnison> Cor; a bagpuss
[10:39] <bagpuss> heya Daniel
[10:39] <Kinnison> How's tricks?
[10:39] <bagpuss> not bad
[10:39] <bagpuss> beside being jobless and poor anyway :)
[10:39] <Kinnison> Erp
[10:39] <ForsaKen`> at my friends house i we just did apt-cache search kde, it found lik 200 things, and then we apt-get install kde-core and it worked
[10:39] <ForsaKen`> doesnt seem to be same here
[10:39] <whiprush> he probably has universe enabled.
[10:40] <whiprush> add "universe" to the end of the deb line in /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:40] <ForsaKen`> yeah he has the AMD64 bit edition
[10:40] <thom> ForsaKen`: sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list
[10:40] <zombics> ther is a way to install ubuntulinux from HD(my burner is not working :/)
[10:40] <bagpuss> Kinnison: how's you?  I wasn't able to make Steve's this year.  I see you sold your soul to the group keysigning notion though
[10:40] <whiprush> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main restricted universe <-- example
[10:40] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[10:41] <Kinnison> bagpuss: It was a small signing event
[10:41] <zombics> i personaly dont think the A64 ver is redy yet.(not only of ubuntu i have seen it with gentoo 2)
[10:41] <Kinnison> bagpuss: but it was fun.
[10:41] <bagpuss> Kinnison: I remember the year before you sitting in the garden with a "this is an EVIL way to sign keys" attitude :)
[10:42] <Kinnison> bagpuss: Indeed. I ran it properly
[10:42] <thom> zombics: i've been using amd64 quite happily for the last month with no problems
[10:42] <bagpuss> ah :)
[10:42] <zombics> thom maybe. i had some wierd problems. now i want to chek out the 32Bit ver....
[10:42] <bagpuss> whiprush: http://www.clothcat.org/ubuntu/rhythmbox-applet/
[10:42] <zombics> but i have no burner
[10:42] <bagpuss> whiprush: built against warty
[10:43] <thom> zombics: please file bugs then :-)
[10:43] <zombics> it wasent bugs. it was some installtion of program and those things....
[10:43] <Kinnison> c'ya later guys
[10:43] <robertj> the best part about building stuff is it makes you feel like you are smart when you are not
[10:45] <zombics> thom ther is no way to install ubuntu from the HD right? :/
[10:45] <robertj> zombics: you can boot an iso from grub
[10:45] <sabdfl> cheers Kinnison
[10:45] <mwh_> Hi, when I plug in a usb mass-storage device I get a pop up window with its content, but the drive does not show up in computer->drives
[10:46] <mwh_> is it posible in ubuntu at the present to unmount the drive with the gui?
[10:46] <sabdfl> mwh_: please file a bug in bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[10:46] <zombics> robertj ther is a way of doing it from windows?
[10:46] <robertj> zombics: nope
[10:46] <sabdfl> mwh_: does it show up on your desktop?
[10:46] <mwh_> sabdfl: oh I guess its not posible then ;)
[10:46] <robertj> why are you trying to do that?
[10:46] <mwh_> sabdfl: no
[10:46] <zombics> :/
[10:46] <robertj> why not burn the image?
[10:46] <sabdfl> mwh_: it should show up. then you can unmount it
[10:46] <robertj> some of those bootable cds have utils that can usually resize a partition without screwing things up
[10:46] <zombics> burner is broken :<
[10:50] <mwh_> sabdfl: sorry I was wrong it apears on the desktop :o)
[10:50] <mwh_> sabdfl: thanks, btw if I unmount it, is it then posible to remount it without unplugin and replugin the device?
[10:54] <sabdfl> mwh_: we had it in the Disks folder till gnome-vfs 2.8.1 and then it broke, alas, and we haven't time to find the bug
[10:54] <mwh_> what is the prefered way to manage which modules get loaded during startup? I ask because some of them fail because the hardware is not available for them
[10:54] <mwh_> sabdfl: ahh
[10:54] <sabdfl> mwh_: i think pmount /dev/xxx might do the trick
[10:54] <robertj> IMO unmounted disks should show as disabled
[10:55] <sabdfl> robertj: good idea
[10:55] <robertj> and HAL should be used to figure out if they are connected
[10:55] <mwh_> sabdfl: also, my gpdf stoped working recently :(
[10:55] <sabdfl> robertj: could you write that one up on the wiki?
[10:55] <robertj> sab: sure
[10:55] <robertj> what would be a good icon label for that?
[10:55] <robertj> something that indicates its avialable for low-level write ops
[10:55] <mwh_> sabdfl: I get a lot of bonobo warnings
[10:56] <mwh_> sabdfl: I should probably write a bug-report about it ;)
[10:56] <sabdfl> mwh_: hotplug has to guess, and if they fail it's not a problem
[10:56] <sabdfl> mwh_: for hoary the boot process will look a lot nicer
[10:56] <sabdfl> mwh_: is this a clean ubuntu install?
[10:56] <robertj> sabdfl: actually though
[10:57] <axe9> ARGH!
[10:57] <robertj> why does there need to be a gui for unmounting?
[10:57] <axe9> I can never remember how to isntall stuff!
[10:57] <mwh_> sabdfl: yes, I have installed flash, java and mplayer though
[10:57] <sabdfl> because my mom hasn't yet got the hang of bash
[10:57] <robertj> sabdfl: well ejecting is different
[10:57] <robertj> ejecting is unmount + remove icon
[10:58] <axe9> ARGH!!!
[10:58] <robertj> although Ejecting an FTP site is odd
[10:58] <sabdfl> not all media can eject
[10:58] <axe9> x1-6-00-0d-88-24-dd-6f:/home/family# ./patch-3.6.8.1
[10:58] <axe9> bash: ./patch-3.6.8.1: Permission denied
[10:58] <robertj> Windows Ejects USB Pen Drives
[10:58] <robertj> as does Mac
[10:58] <axe9> HOW!
[10:58] <axe9> argh
[10:59] <axe9> mom is yelling at me to install the printer drivers!
[10:59] <axe9> and I have to install that patch first
[10:59] <axe9> and then I need to install the printer >.>
[10:59] <axe9> help
[10:59] <mwh_> sabdfl: so hotplug is loading all the modules? I did not think so
[11:00] <mwh_> anyone have any problem with gpdf in ubuntu with the latest upgrades
[11:00] <robertj> sabdfl: ?
[11:00] <mwh_> axe9: umh does the directory have the right permissions?
[11:00] <axe9> how do I change it?
[11:01] <axe9> SOMEONE disables to rootuser >:(
[11:01] <mwh_> robertj: will the pen be spit out in windows and mac .. wow
[11:01] <mwh_> axe9: with chmod
[11:01] <mwh_> axe9: check man chmod
[11:01] <robertj> mwh: of course not
[11:01] <robertj> it just uses eject terminology
[11:01] <mwh_> robertj: it was a joke ;)
[11:01] <axe9> uhm
[11:02] <axe9> I tried chmod 0600 patch-3.6.8.1
[11:02] <axe9> and it didn't seem to do.. anythign.
[11:02] <robertj> It would be nice if removable media had a notify icon for when it was in use
[11:02] <robertj> and you just pulled it out otherwise
[11:02] <thom> feature goal for hoary
[11:02] <mwh_> robertj: yea, but unmount and mount is pretty good words for what is happening, eject is good when a real eject is hapening
[11:02] <mwh_> axe9: check to see if the dir has execute permission
[11:03] <mwh_> axe9: like 755 or something
[11:03] <axe9> how do I check that?
[11:03] <Chriffer> attach would sound better to me atleast
[11:03] <robertj> mwh: mount makes no sense from a gnome user's point of view
[11:03] <robertj> Computer Disks makes it look like a multi-root fs to most people
[11:03] <mwh_> robertj: you have a point there
[11:04] <robertj> Mount would be ok if it was being mounted to ~/Users/cdrom
[11:04] <mwh_> robertj: anyways eject for usb-massstorage doesnt make sense for me
[11:04] <robertj> err ~/volumes/cdrom
[11:04] <axe9> How do I change the CHMOD for a dir?
[11:04] <robertj> is media the new FSF place for automounting?
[11:04] <axe9> Yes, I'm an idiot, and I've only had linux for a week.....
[11:04] <mwh_> axe9: chmod 755 mydir
[11:04] <robertj> and it dissaproves of ~/media AFAK
[11:05] <mwh_> axe9: your not alone ;)
[11:05] <mwh_> axe9: man chmod or chmod --help would be good commands to execute
[11:06] <axe9> argh
[11:06] <spiv> axe9: right-click on it in nautilus, choose properties, then permissions.
[11:06] <spiv> (it's probably easier to use nautilus than learn the arcane ways of chmod :)
[11:07] <axe9> er...
[11:07] <axe9> I did
[11:07] <axe9> and set all permissions open
[11:07] <mwh_> spiv: your right, I still dont think gui yet
[11:07] <axe9> brb
[11:08] <mwh_> anyways could any one here confirm that gpdf is broken with ubuntu?
[11:08] <mwh_> I get a lot of failed assertions
[11:08] <spiv> mwh_: chmod is very deeply ingrained, I know :)
[11:09] <ForsaKen> i am having problems with teamspeak2
[11:09] <ForsaKen> i cant hear ppl talk
[11:09] <ForsaKen> and i cant speak
[11:09] <ForsaKen> but i got sound, and it is working
[11:10] <ForsaKen> anyone that uses teamspeak on ubuntu ??
[11:10] <ForsaKen> O.o
[11:14] <mwh_> is there any news on when ubuntu final-release will be released?
[11:17] <hawksmoor> Hi all
[11:17] <theantix> hi hawksmoor!
[11:17] <mwh_> hawksmoor: hi there
[11:17] <thom> mwh_: oct 20
[11:17] <hawksmoor> I've succesfully installed ubuntu this morning
[11:18] <theantix> I've compiled netapplet on Ubuntu, and is happier then a pig in [censored]  =)
[11:20] <mwh_> thom: ok
[11:20] <mwh_> bbl
[11:26] <theantix> the new Ubuntu gnome-sudo prompt is *so much* better
[11:27] <hawksmoor> I'm very satisfied with Ubuntu, only got a problem, It seems It won't let me mount the other partition with all its data
[11:29] <lypanov> hawksmoor: during installtion you can do thi
[11:29] <lypanov> s
[11:29] <lypanov> hawksmoor: else you can do this via editing your /etc/fstab or mount'ing the drive
[11:29] <Slackeerb> does ubunto come with something to set up ppoe dsl?
[11:30] <hawksmoor> lypanov, I've done this during installation, and afterward I sudoed to mount the partition but nothing, only way through editing /etc/fstab?
[11:33] <hawksmoor> by the way, are there anyone from italy?
[11:34] <thom> hawksmoor: fabbione is, although he lives in denmark now
[11:35] <hawksmoor> a little away from home, isn't it? ;-)
[11:43] <lypanov> hawksmoor: strange. still no luck?
[11:44] <hawksmoor> the pc is off now, here I'm using my powerbook
[11:48] <hawksmoor> It's midnight here, and I had a bad day, so I'm very tired, goodnight to all, hear ya soon
[11:51] <probs> hey, does anyone know why openoffice won't spellcheck?
[11:51] <probs> anyone else have that problem?
[11:52] <thom> it's known, the fix should be in in the next couple of days iirc
[11:52] <probs> great..thx
[11:58] <ForsaKen> my screen is working on 1152x768 resolution, but with 55HZ
[11:58] <ForsaKen> and i know it can work with 100HZ
[11:58] <ForsaKen> but in the kde/gnome i cant change it
[11:58] <ForsaKen> it wont let me
[11:58] <ForsaKen> i must edit my xfree86 config ?
[11:59] <housetier> what do you do? what are the error messages if any?
[11:59] <ForsaKen> no, there is just no option for more then 55HZ
[11:59] <ForsaKen> i cant scrool up, there is only 55hz
[11:59] <housetier> "there"
[11:59] <ForsaKen> soon i will be blind with this HZ