srbakeris ubuntu in debconf high or critical?12:04
mdzsrbaker: critical in the installer, high in the installed system12:07
tsenghi all.01:00
lamonthrm.. no jdub, eh?01:02
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by mdz at Mon Sep 20 07:48:40 2004
Mithrandirmdz: can we sync gftp with debian? -6 fixes RC bug for both us and them; the fix is in incoming; our bug # is 180601:54
Mithrandir(we have -5 already)01:54
mdzMithrandir: just saw that01:54
mdzyes, fine with me01:54
mdzplease request it01:54
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sivangnight all01:55
sivanghas anyone bumped into _very__very_ slow disk performance under inspiron 8200 laptop? I recently install a daily from about 4 days ago, and it just crewles..01:56
sivangIs this more appropriate at #ubuntu ? :)01:56
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sivangnight Mithrandir01:58
=== lamont introduces his daughter to xlife. this is fun.
sivangany urgent bugs?02:18
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lamontjustdave: happiness?04:40
justdavelamont: yep04:40
lamontwhat was it?04:40
justdaveI accidently nuked a paren when I added the -f04:41
justdavebecause my stupid terminal was sending the wrong code for backspace :)04:41
justdaveguess postfix isn't as picky about that stuff as sendmail (or at least not by default)04:43
justdavesendmail makes you grant users permission to use -f04:43
justdavewhich is why I assumed I needed admin support :)04:43
lamontnc localhost 2504:43
lamontyeah.  then again, postfix's sendmail is mode 55504:44
lamontand just writes a file into /var/spool/postfix/maildrop04:44
justdaveone of these days soon, bugzilla will do smtp by default anyway04:44
lamontif you do, there's always sendmail -bs for those that can't run on port 25. But that's a gross hack from days gone by04:46
justdaveback in 30 or so04:47
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fabbionemorning guys06:44
danielsfabbione: morning06:55
fabbionehey dani06:55
fabbionedaniels: i start to be a bit worried about Dec conf.06:56
fabbionejane talks about end nov. mid dic06:56
fabbionemark isn't sure...06:56
fabbionepersonally i don't mind06:56
jduboh man07:18
jdubthe gnome-cups-manager test pages are all line-based, not font-based07:18
jdubie. can't just s/XIMIAN DESKTOP/UBUNTU/g :)07:18
lamontjdub: btw, if you or anyone else can tell me how to preserve categories for contacts into evo2.0 and back, that'd be the last thing that's keeping me on jpilot...07:20
jdublamont: to and from palm?07:20
lamontthe only use I have for evo is to sync my palm. :-)07:21
lamontI _like_ the MUA I use, don't want some stupid gui MUA. :-)07:22
jdublamont: so why do you sync with evolution at all?07:22
lamontatm I don't/07:22
lamontbut if I could preserve my address book categories, then I could drop jpilot.07:23
lamontthe wifely one is using evo, because I didn't want to make her non-conformist...07:23
jdubok, why do you want to sync with eovlution insetad?07:23
lamontshe discovered this evening that if you drop 5 concurrent events into evo, it segv's trying to print it... ;)07:23
lamontjdub: I'm _trying_ to be a good warthog/07:24
lamontand it would be nice to share calendars in the house.07:24
=== lamont admits to some usefulness to evo. I just don't want it for my MUA...
=== lamont looks at the clock, and realizes that he has to get up in about 5.5 hours. sigh.
lamontdaughter wants up at 5, instead of the normal 5:30.07:25
lamontI hate getting up early.07:25
lamontanyway, g'night07:26
mdzjdub: pstoedit?07:29
jdubmdz: thought about that, but doesn't convert to anything inkscape likes07:31
jdubbut i could screw around with xfig07:31
mdzjdub: there is a pstoedit SVG output plugin07:33
mdzmaybe you could ask Ximian for whatever source format they have for the page07:33
jdubit should probably be fixed in gnome cvs anyway07:34
jdubmdz: where's the svg output plugin?07:34
mdzeww, it's a binary07:34
jdub"Unless you get a key, these drivers will slightly distort the generated output. Colors will be changed and the letter e will be replaced by $."07:35
mdzoh hey07:36
mdzare you sure pstoedit doesn't support svg out of the box?07:36
mdzit looks like it can use the libplot svg output07:36
mdzpstoedit -f plot-svg xd2-testpage-a4.eps /tmp/test.svg07:37
mdzInterpreter finished. Return status 007:37
jdubmdz: it just gave me 0 length output\07:39
mdzinkscape seems to like it fine07:39
jduboh, now it's working07:39
jdubugh, the output is horrible07:40
mdzit's a little cracked out07:40
jdubmight even be worth doing our own ;)07:40
mdzfor some reason everything is covered by black circles07:41
mdzif you delete that crap, the good stuff is underneath07:41
mdzmaybe it's some weird printer magic07:41
mdzall of the objects are there, it's just the colours that are borked07:42
jdubmine are all misshapen07:43
mdzinkscape crashed on me07:45
mdzprobably worth making our own :-)07:46
mdzI liked all the little test patterns they provided though07:46
=== jdub has found a test page generator
jdubwill see if the output sucks or not ;)07:48
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pittiHi guys!07:53
mdzpitti: good morning07:53
pittimdz: Morning. Exhausting weekend...07:53
jdubhttp://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/ubuntu-a4.eps or http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/ubuntu-letter.eps08:11
jdubanyone want to check those out?08:11
jdubthat looks pretty good08:14
dokojdub: ERROR 404: Not Found.08:23
jdubthat makes ithard to test08:24
fabbionemdz: 1808 what do you want me to do with this one?08:25
fabbionejdub: ^^08:25
jameshpitti: does this sound like it could be related to pmount? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=171508:25
jameshpitti: I can easily fix up my gnome-vfs patch, but I'm wondering why the problem occured just recently.08:26
jdubfabbione: oh, that reminds me08:27
jdubfabbione: pipka's laptop only supports the full resolution of the lcd at 16bit08:27
jdubfabbione: which means the configuration fails :|08:28
=== fabbione ask again... what should I do with it?
fabbionedefaulting to 16 bits or let 24 bits?08:29
fabbioneone way or another we will get bug reports08:29
jdubdo you mean in the general case?08:29
fabbione"it doesn't work at 24 bits but only at 16"08:29
jdubhttp://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/ubuntu-a4.eps or http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/ubuntu-letter.eps08:29
fabbione"GRAVE BUG: my video card supports 24 bits and you only init at 16"08:29
jdub^ try again :)08:29
jdubfabbione: ;-)08:29
pittijamesh: this is indeed the same bug as #1599.08:29
fabbionejdub: yes as a general case... it's either one or another08:30
mdzfabbione: if there is some way to auto-detect the situation, great08:30
pittijamesh: this is not directly a pmount problem, it's a gvfs bug08:30
mdzfabbione: if not, close it08:30
mdzfabbione: either way, it's not important for the release (hence severity; enhancement)08:30
jdubmdz: hhhrrrmmm, it ends up being important08:30
pittijamesh: seb recently uploaded a new gvfs, and my patch (which worked fine with the older one) does not play well with the new upstream version08:30
mdzjdub: what does?08:30
pittijamesh: so I disabled it temporarily08:30
jameshpitti: I can probably get the computer:/// and network:/// patches to only move "connect to server" type entries.  That would solve the problem, right?08:30
fabbionemdz: well there is a way, but that will require xresprobe to return me the amount of ram on the video card and according to resolution set the depth08:30
jdubmdz: when the resolution chosen does not work at 24bit08:30
pittijamesh: yes, this would solve both bugs.08:31
fabbionemdz: but do you feel to implement it at this point in time?08:31
mdzfabbione: no, I really don't08:31
pittijamesh: if you know the guts of gvfs well enough, it would be great! 08:31
fabbionemdz: i realize we did never discuss this problem before08:31
fabbionemdz: so it's a point, but up to you08:31
jameshpitti: okay.  I'll put together a patch, and we can see if it solves things.08:31
mdzthis is only an issue with older graphics cards which do not have enough RAM, right?08:31
jdubfabbione: i'd say hoary08:31
pittijamesh: I actually thought that I had to write new code to make the devices appear in Disks, but if that code already exists, so much the better08:31
pittijamesh: thanks!08:31
jdubmdz: that's a lot of machines08:32
jdubmdz: not just older08:32
jameshpitti: my patch moves all GnomeVFSVolumes that don't have an associated GnomeVFSDisk object to network:///08:32
mdzjdub: video cards sold today have more ram than most of my computers08:32
pittijamesh: ah, maybe that was the reason why my previous patch just did not work any more08:32
jameshpitti: I'm not sure why things like the firewire and USB drives don't have a Disk object now though.08:32
jdubmdz: in ricer machines, sure08:32
mdzjdub: in something you buy from Dell or HP08:32
jameshpitti: s/GnomeVFSDisk/GnomeVFSDrive/08:33
jdubmdz: it's a significant bug, but something that can probably wait until hoary08:33
pittijamesh: upstream version only shows Disks which have an fstab entry08:33
fabbionemdz: yes08:33
mdzjdub: I don't see that we can do anything intelligent in that situation; we would need to ask a question08:33
pittijamesh: my previous patch "faked" such an entry by modifying the function which read fstab; it added the user-entries of mtab08:33
mdz"what's more important: colours or resolution?"08:33
jameshpitti: okay then :)08:33
pittijamesh: but with the new upstream version, it became unreliable and breaked the trash08:34
jdubmdz: it's easy to determine from available video ram08:34
mdzjdub: you can't determine whether the user would prefer a higher resolution with fewer colours, or a lower resolution with more colours08:34
mdzthat's the tradeoff, isn't it?08:35
jdubnot on an lcd :-)08:35
jdubbut it's something you can decide that they can reconfigure later08:35
jdub(on a crt)08:35
mdzthat's what we do today :-)08:36
jdubthey can't, because their system doesn't work08:36
mdzwhy not?08:36
mdzcan the driver not detect that the mode is no good and fall back?08:37
jdubwe don't do that today08:37
jdubwhen pipka installed her machine08:37
jdubit chose the right resolution for the lcd08:37
jduband the wrong colour resolution08:37
jdubwere she not a kung-fu master, she would not have got out alive08:37
mdzah, ok08:38
mdzso the LCD was configured correctly, but the card can't drive it08:38
jdubif you can determine two useful configurations from the video ram08:38
mdzin the LCD case there is no tradeoff08:38
mdzyou just need to drop the depth08:38
jdubthen on a laptop you can choose the correct one for the lcd08:38
jdubon a crt you can make up some reason why you'd choose one over the other08:39
jduband let the user configure it how they want later08:39
mdz#1808 is a different case08:39
mdzI think the emulator just sucks, but I wasn't sure08:40
jdubno, same case08:40
jdubit's just not hardware ;)08:40
mdzoh, you have a copy of microsoft virtual PC?08:40
mdzthat'll come in handy for testing the fix08:40
jdubi don't, but i know it emulates an s308:41
jdubi think i can get access to a copy08:41
mdzI don't think the chipset is relevant08:41
jdubbut probably don't need it, the fix is described above :)08:41
jdubthe chipset isn't relevant, it's the 'hardware environment'08:42
mdzthe 'hardware environment' in this case seems like a buggy emulator08:42
mdzwhich is a very differetn case from a card which is short on video ram08:42
mdzthe amount of video ram can generally be probed08:42
jdubdude, it emulates a video card that can't do that08:42
jdubnothing wrong with the emulator08:42
mdzI _have_ an S3 card, and it _does_ to 24-bit colour08:42
dokojdub: eps: maybe let the user know how many lines around the edges he is supposed to see?08:43
jdubapart from making a bad choice of hrdware setup08:43
jdubdoko: hrm, that'd be a software issue ;)08:43
jdubdoko: just replacing the poopie eps shipped with gnome-cups-manager08:43
dokojdub: no, just print it somewhere on the page, "you should see ... if not, adjust your setup, help at ..."08:45
mdzfabbione: hmm, there is also a tradeoff with DRI08:46
mdzmy mga card can only run 1600x1200 with DRI disabled due to lack of RAM08:47
fabbionemdz: ok.. should we default to 16 bits?08:48
mdzfabbione: hell no :-)08:48
mdzfabbione: just another thing to think about when we decide to look at this issue in the future08:48
fabbionemdz: we need to rewrite all the autodetection code anyway08:48
fabbioneand do a hell of a lot of a cleanup08:48
danielss3s do do 24-bit, yes08:49
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jdub^ mentions ubuntu ;)08:52
mdzhah, nice08:53
mdzColin Barnhorst seems to have tried many different operating systems08:55
mdzhah, even knoppixmyth is on there08:55
jdubsick puppy ;)08:56
dokobut "does it worK? no"08:57
mdzhah, that page describes linux boot parameters as "cheat codes"08:59
jdubup-up-up-b-b-a-start-down-- WOOHOO! KERNEL 2.6!!!!08:59
mdz^^vv<><>ABAB START08:59
dokotry to submit an entry for "Small Ubuntu Server", maybe it shows up in the front then ;)09:00
=== mdz blinks at the PregnantPanda proposed release name
jdublet's choose that name for the next release which requires new glibc, new gcc, new kernel, new X and new just about everything else09:03
danielsmdz: i like PokeyPenguin09:04
dokothat's Hoary, or Hoary+1 ?09:04
danielshoary+2 is meant to be PerkyPenguin09:05
jdubok bong-sippers09:10
jdubwhat do you think about those printer pages09:10
jdubotherwise i'm just going to upload the suckers09:10
mdzwhere are the printer pages?09:14
mdzah, missed the 'try again'09:15
jdubhttp://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/ubuntu-a4.eps or http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/random/ubuntu-letter.eps09:15
mdzjdub: definitely fixes the bug :-)09:16
jdubyou like?09:25
mdzfabbione: any idea about  1724?09:25
jameshpitti: I just bugzilla'd the new gnome-vfs patch.09:26
mdzjdub: I think it would be nice to have some test patterns and stuff, but for Warty purposes, what you have is more than sufficient09:26
jdubpatterns rather than colours?09:26
pittijamesh: thanks! Does it work now?09:26
pittijamesh: I will take a look at it (out of curiosity :-) )09:27
mdzjdub: text in a few different fonts, stipple pattern, parallel lines, etc.09:27
jameshpitti: it doesn't cause any problems here, and the patch to computer-method.c is a lot simpler09:27
jameshpitti: which means that it should behave more like upstream09:27
mdzjdub: I say ship it09:28
jdubSHIP IT!09:28
jameshpitti: I've only got a limited number of volume types to test on this box, which is why I'd like to know if it works well in other situations.09:29
pittijamesh: still quite a big patch, but it looks as if it _could_ go upstream...09:29
pittijamesh: I think there's only one possibility to find that out :-))09:29
jameshpitti: it is a replacement for a patch we already have in gnome-vfs, and it is a bit smaller than the one it replaces.09:29
jameshpitti: the diffs between the two patches are quite small.09:30
pittijamesh: shall I build and test the package before you ask mdz to approve it?09:30
jameshpitti: that would be useful, yes.09:30
pittijamesh: do you already have a i386 deb somewhere?09:31
pittijamesh: okay, I build it myself.09:31
jameshthis version of the patch could probably be sent upstream (the last version wasn't as clean)09:36
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pittiMorning seb128!09:50
jdubyo seb128 09:51
seb128grrr, 30 hours to fix the dsl connection, apparently dsl people don't work sunday09:51
jdubseb128: got my mail?09:51
seb128just back from 30 hours internet-less09:51
seb128my fetchmail/spamassassin/... is working :)09:51
pittijamesh: patch works fine for me09:52
jameshpitti: great.09:53
pittijamesh: this bug report was great; so far I thought that the new device would not appear in Nautilus at all09:53
pittijamesh: I would have never come to the idea to look in "Network" for it :-)09:54
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seb128_funny, I'm getting 2 weeks old mails for 3 days (WTF with my @debian)10:02
pittijdub: the new hal 0.2.98 does not work with the current g-v-m, so I need to upload a new gvm10:04
pittijdub: there is a new upstream version 1.0.2 of g-v-m which just adds some new translations10:04
trukuloseb128_: read planet.debian.net, there was a problem with mail server10:04
pittijdub: may I upgrade g-v-m- while I'm at it?10:04
jdubpitti: yes thanks10:05
jdub^ (p)review10:06
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pittiseb128: the nautilus-cd-burner in warty does not yet use the new locking mechanism of hal to prevent further mounts; is this already upstream?11:30
seb128yes it's upstream11:30
seb128but need hal >= 0.2.9811:30
seb128so it's not buildable for the moment11:30
pittiseb128: I just packaged crack-of-the day hal/dbus/gvm11:30
pittiseb128: now I test CD burning11:30
pittiseb128: I cannot find any trace of lockign in the n-c-b sources11:31
seb128it's in 2.8.311:31
pittiseb128: ah, so I'm going to package this as well11:31
pittiseb128: unless you want to do that...11:31
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seb128pitti: that's just a matter of dch -i, New upstream release and update the hal depends11:32
seb128pitti: so as you want :)11:32
pittiseb128: okay, since the other stuff is at my hd and not uploaded yet, I would do it11:32
seb128ok, thanks11:32
pittiseb128: so the guys can test the complete new stack from my archive without having it to upload first11:32
fabbionexfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu22) warty; urgency=low11:34
fabbione  * Update 000_stolen_from_HEAD.diff:11:34
fabbione    + Include Xv/framebuffer fix for xf86xv.c.11:34
fabbione  * Update 030_Xserver_and_driver_region_primitive_fixups.diff:11:34
fabbione    + Fix REGION_EQUAL call in nv_driver.c.11:34
fabbione  * Update Czech debconf template translations (thanks, Miroslav Kure).11:34
fabbione  * Apply fix for Keycodes for PrintScreen and SysRq. (Closes: #1762)11:34
fabbione -- Fabio M. Di Nitto <fabbione@fabbione.net>  Mon, 27 Sep 2004 07:58:55 +020011:34
pittiseb128: http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/desktop/2.8/2.8.0/sources/ just has n-c-b 2.8.011:34
pittiseb128: where do you pull new sources from?11:34
pittiseb128: ah found it11:35
pittiseb128: sorry for disturbing11:35
seb128jdub: ok, changes done for the -fr list11:40
pittiseb128: hmm, ncb 2.8.3 still does not attempt to umount the CD-RW11:47
pittiseb128: how easy is it to add an _extra_ unmount option to the context menu? (By now you just have eject)11:48
seb128no idea11:48
seb128should ask jamesh about this, he had a look on that11:48
jameshseb128: I haven't looked at the exact nautilus code, but I could.11:50
pittijamesh,seb128: I think I can add the unmounting to n-c-b11:50
seb128jamesh: have you replied to my question about pygtk/gnome the other day ?11:51
pittijamesh,seb128: but having a separate unmount option for CDs is a good idea nevertheless11:51
seb128pitti: why do you want to umount in n-c-b ?11:51
pittiseb128: by now you insert an RW, it is mounted automatically; if you want to burn on it, it is busy11:52
pittiseb128: however, there is no possibility to unmount it, it is ejected11:52
seb128you want to add an umount "option" ?11:52
pittiseb128: so we could pumount -l the device before burning11:52
seb128yes, but not an option11:52
seb128just umount it 11:52
pittiseb128: okay, then without -l11:52
pittiseb128: by now, there is just a "TODO: unmount the device..." in the ncb code11:53
seb128I can ping an upstream about this11:53
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pittiseb128: maybe a good idea; I don't know much about the code11:54
pittiseb128: I can add the umount there and try if it works11:54
jameshseb128: I talked a bit with jdahlin about it.  The fix is probably the right thing for Python < 2.3.511:58
jameshpitti: btw, the code for handling unmount/eject context menu item is in real_update_menus_volumes() in src/file-manager/fm-directory-view.c11:58
jameshpitti: it seems to use the same verb for both eject and unmount11:59
pittijamesh: so the decision is taken at a lower level?11:59
pittijamesh: that would mean it is nontrivial to add, isn't it?11:59
jameshpitti: the decision between eject and unmount is in the eject_for_type() function12:02
jameshpitti: which is set to show an eject option for cdroms, zip and jaz drives, and unmount for others12:02
pittijamesh: I saw this once; it does not seem to be designed for just unmounting12:02
pittijamesh: well, if its nontrivial to change and cd-burner supports automatic unmounting, it's not such a big deal, I suppose12:03
jameshpitti: unmount_volume_callback() uses the result of eject_for_type() to decide whether to eject or unmount12:03
jameshpitti: and the code for setting up the context menu uses eject_for_type() to decide whether to call the item eject or unmount.12:03
jameshit isn't a case of showing one item and hiding the other12:04
pittijamesh: ugly...12:04
pittijamesh: at least for having two commmands...12:04
jameshit is just a single menu item with a different label depending on the drive type.12:04
jameshpitti: well, other than the case you mentioned, when is a user going to want to unmount a cdrom or zip disk?12:05
jameshpitti: the correct fix would be to get n-c-b to do the unmount12:05
pittijamesh: I would do it if I wanted to repartition my USB stick, ZIP drive or whatever12:05
pittijamesh: but if I want to do that, I can as well type umount by hand12:06
pittijamesh: I want to fix n-c-b anyway12:06
jameshpitti: actually, you probably couldn't umount by hand ...12:06
jameshif the stick has a trash dir12:06
pittijamesh: these device locks, I suppose12:06
pittijamesh: but that shouln't happen on CD-ROMs, no?12:07
pittijamesh: seb128 suggested not to lazily unmount the CD, but do that normally12:07
jameshpitti: the Gnome vfs umount/eject stuff has a "pre unmount" signal so that apps like nautilus can stop monitoring directories12:07
jameshsince fam/gamin's dnotify watches hold the device open12:08
pittijamesh: hmm, so actually n-c-b should call this instead of umounting directly?12:08
=== Sledge [~steve@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittimorning Sledge12:09
jameshpitti: yep.  Get the GnomeVFSVolume or GnomeVFSDrive object for the cd drive and call its unmount() method.12:10
pittijamesh: any idea how I can do that in n-c-b? I only have the device string (/dev/hdc or so)12:10
jameshpitti: gnome_vfs_volume_monitor_get_volume_for_path() might do it.12:11
pittijamesh: do I have to call the pre_umount method myself or does GnomeVFSVolume's umount() method care for that?12:15
jameshpitti: the gnome_vfs_volume_unmount() routine handles it all for you.12:15
pittijamesh: thanks a lot for your help!12:15
jameshpitti: if inotify existed a few years back, things wouldn't be so complicated ...12:19
=== Capri [~makolb@mnch-d9ba4117.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128does somebody already had problems to boot the warty iso on a powerbook ?12:32
thomseb128: define problems12:34
seb128the powerbook doesn't boot on the CD12:34
seb128it doesn't see it as a bootable one or something like that12:34
thomseb128: hold 'c' as you power on12:34
seb128ok, not for me, I'm telling that to the guy ;)12:35
seb128and for shared-mime-info, yes it was 0.15 :)12:35
thomright, well, that bug is still occurring then :-/12:36
seb128thom: 'c' doesn't work, the guy says it already does that12:36
seb128debian CDs boot ok12:36
seb128warty doesn't boot12:36
jameshseb128: btw, I did a patch for bug 1715 (firewire volume showing up under Network)12:41
seb128cool, thanks12:42
jameshseb128: pitti tested it, and it fixes 1599 too12:42
seb128ok, I'll do an upload soon12:42
fabbionejdub, mdz: ping12:52
Kamionseb128: I'd check that it burnt correctly; the CD build processes for Debian and Ubuntu are practically the same01:05
seb128the guy has burnt several time the debian and the ubuntu iso, the Debian always boot, the Ubuntu one not ... weird01:06
Kamionvery odd01:15
Kamionis he certain that he downloaded the Ubuntu ISO correctly?01:15
Kamionrsync shows no changes?01:15
Mithrandirmake sure to run rsync with -c01:16
seb128I'm checking, but I think he downloaded the preview and one daily, and he can mount them without any problem01:17
seb128he deleted the iso and is downloading it again ...01:17
Kamionthe preview has certainly booted on lots of machines01:19
pittijamesh: still here?01:48
jameshpitti: yep.01:49
pittijamesh:  gnome_vfs_volume_monitor_get_volume_for_path delivers a VFSVolume* with device path 'none' and umounting does not work01:49
pittijamesh: do I need to initialize the monitor somehow?01:49
pittijamesh: by now I just create an instance with GnomeVFSVolumeMonitor* gvm = gnome_vfs_get_volume_monitor()01:50
pittijamesh: sorry for askign so much, but this stuff is not documented yet01:50
jameshpitti: hmm.  I'm a bit new to the APIs myself.01:50
pittijamesh: do you know what these _ref and _unref methods are for?01:51
pittijamesh: maybe I need to call them01:51
jameshpitti: imaybe gnome_vfs_volume_monitor_get_volume_for_path() expects a path on the mounted volume01:52
pittijamesh: argh; maybe. By now I give it the device node path01:52
pittijamesh: I don't have the mount path in n-c-b...01:52
jameshpitti: the other thing to try would be to use gnome_vfs_volume_monitor_get_mounted_volumes() to get the list of mounted volumes, and gnome_vfs_volume_get_device_path() to find the device path for each mounted volume01:53
jameshfind the volume that matches the device file name.01:53
pittijamesh: sounds possible (although pretty much code for such a simple thing :-) )01:54
jameshpitti: maybe that's why n-c-b doesn't currently do it :(01:55
pittijamesh: :-) So, off to doing it01:56
jameshpitti: of course, the unmount may still fail if other apps have files open ...01:56
pittijamesh: but I think this is reasonable in this case01:56
jameshpitti: but it will get nautilus to stop holding the volume open01:57
pittijamesh: ncb will show a dialog "drive busy", then the user can close the app and click "OK" to try again01:57
=== jamesh should get a cd burner to try these sorts of things out ...
=== T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbioneseb128: 1762: who the screenshot stuff is supposed to work?02:00
fabbioneif i press print or alt+print, where is the screeshot saved?02:00
seb128fabbione: desktop or home, not sure02:02
seb128let me check02:02
seb128fabbione: it should open the screenshot dialog (same as in the computer menu)02:03
jameshthere's a Sun guy working on adding printing support to the screenshooter dialog ...02:03
fabbioneseb128: ok thanks. than the fix doesn't work02:03
fabbioneseb128: does it need anything special installed? like gnome-foo-bar?02:05
seb128that's all02:05
seb128it runs gnome-panel-screenshot02:05
rossfabbione: pressing print or alt-print generally doesn't work in debian's X02:06
fabbioneross: that's what i am trying to understand02:06
fabbioneross: there is a patch missing02:06
rossi've seen a patch to fix it02:06
seb128ross: that's the purpose of the bug report yes02:06
rossaaah i see02:07
fabbioneross: yes but the patch doesn't fix apparently02:07
=== ross reads back
seb128ross: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=176202:07
fabbionexc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/common/xf86Events.c @ 3.14702:08
fabbione   8. Fix for non-PC keyboard bug introduced by changes to make SysRq02:08
fabbione      generate the same keycode as PrtScrn (Ivan Pascal).02:08
mjg59Is there any reason we don't modprobe apm on boot by default?02:08
Mithrandirit would seriously suck for my laptop, for instance.02:08
mjg59It won't do anything if acpi is already running02:09
Mithrandirwe should make sure acpi is loaded first, then.02:10
KamionMithrandir: the initrd already loads thermal/fan02:10
Kamionthat should be enough, shouldn't it?02:10
mjg59acpi is built into the kernel02:10
mjg59Kamion: Does that happen in Debian, too?02:11
MithrandirKamion: if you load apm on my system the modifier keys behave really badly, they get sticky.02:11
rosspitti: i've forgotten pmount policy again -- would an external firewire hdd be mounted without a line in fstab?02:12
pittiross: Should work, yes02:12
rosshm, it isn't02:12
mjg59Mithrandir: Really, apm won't do anything unless acpi is either implicitly or explicitly disabled02:13
pittiross: does it appear in Device Manager=02:13
mjg59There's no way to build modular acpi02:13
pittiross: s/=/?/02:13
rossurgh.  hald has hung in scsi_wait_req and is dead02:14
Kamionmjg59: in d-i, yes; in the installed system, no02:14
Kamionmjg59: (unless it was done somewhere different from where I was expecting)02:14
pittiross: can you kill it and try again?02:14
rossnope, its totally dead02:14
mjg59Kamion: Bleah. We /still/ need to fix that. It does kill hardware.02:17
pittiross: I packaged a newer hal, maybe it fixed the crash...02:17
fabbioneit looks to me that code is not even reached02:23
fabbioneeither with the xfree86 patch or the x.org one02:23
Mithrandirmoof, lamont02:29
fabbionehey lamont 02:29
danielsfabbione: which code, the radeon suspend shit, or the xkb stuff?02:30
fabbionedaniels: print and <alt>+print02:30
fabbionewe have both the fixed from xfree86 and x.org but alt+print still = SysRq02:31
fabbioneit gives me the feeling that the part of the code is not used at all02:31
fabbionelet me try a gdb sessions02:31
fabbionewhere for SURE it will work02:32
fabbionetherefor making the problem untraceable02:32
rosshm, why is my numeric keypad not working at all02:49
rosshow am i supposed to shoot people over lunch if my numeric keypad doesn't work02:54
rossworks at the console but not in X02:54
fabbioneseb128: 1762 it's a gnome problem :-)))))02:59
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fabbioneseb128: i just finished a gdb session on X and the keyboard mapping is working fine02:59
fabbioneseb128: meaning that something else (!=xfree86) is mangling the keyboard02:59
fabbioneand you know what is the best part...????02:59
fabbioneI CAN PROVE IT :P02:59
rossfabbione: any idea why in X my numeric keypad wouldn't work at all?03:00
fabbione(gdb) n03:00
fabbione579       if (scanCode == KEY_SysReqest)03:00
fabbione(gdb) n03:00
fabbione580         scanCode = KEY_Print;03:00
fabbionethis is the patch to xEvents 03:00
fabbioneit maps the SysReq to Key_Print and that works03:00
fabbione(already the fact that is called means that it works)03:00
seb128fabbione: could you provide the evidences in http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86506 ? :)03:01
fabbioneseb128: do i need an account to write there?03:01
seb128probably yes03:01
fabbioneseb128: humpf03:01
seb128just reassign 1762 to me with details03:01
seb128I'll follow upstream03:01
fabbioneross: no.. keyboard? model? layout? laptop? desktop?03:02
rossfabbione: standard UK keyboard, pc105, desktop03:02
rossah.  when i press the arrow keys xev reports motionevents03:02
fabbioneross: "Num lock"???03:04
rossmoves the mouse cursor when its on and off03:05
=== ross wonders what catches numpad events and turns them into mouse events
rossi pressed shift-alt-numlock03:07
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=== fabbione kicks crapzilla
=== lamont takes the car to the shop, where he will work on his laptop for a while. back in a few hours.
=== fabbione files a blocking bug on bugzilla for bugzilla
fabbioneIT'S UNUSEABLE03:14
seb128thom: 1221, the return mime for gnomevfs-info is still the same ?03:18
thomseb128: MIME type         : application/x-cd-image03:19
jdubKamion: ping03:23
thomi think fedora's bugzilla css is about as good as it gets03:24
jdubthom: aye.03:24
jdubours is pants.03:25
jdubit makes me cry03:25
jdubso does planet.u.o03:25
seb128thom: could you try to patch with GNOME_VFS_FILE_INFO_FORCE_FAST_MIME_TYPE instead of SLOW and try again with gnomevfs-info ?03:26
fabbionejdub: permission to upload 182103:27
=== jdub attempts to say he's not at work.
jdubfabbione: approved in comments03:29
thomseb128: i'll give it a try in a bit, sure03:34
seb128thom: thanks03:34
thomjdub: OH MY EYES03:34
thom(i just looked at planet)03:34
jdubuh huh03:34
jdubthom: seen our website recently?03:35
=== thom drums fingers and waits for 400GB of sata love to arrive
thomjdub: planetplanet?03:35
rosshuh? a book shop?03:36
jdubross: ubuntulinux03:37
Kamionjdub: pong03:45
thomjdub: 1787, please confirm ;-)03:45
jdubKamion: how was oldentown? gothamburg? whereveryouwent? ;)03:45
azeemburg == castle, roughly03:46
=== jdub spanks azeem
Kamionjdub: went well, got lots done, didn't *quite* get the graphical installer booting because mklibs hates me, otherwise good03:47
jdubKamion: so there was some discussion a while back about switching off the hidden-menu grub setting if other OSes were detected... did that come to anything?03:47
jdubKamion: noice.03:48
Kamionjdub: I think it came to "good idea, put on Colin's to-do list"03:48
Kamion(which is fine by me, will do it ...)03:48
jdubKamion: did it have a milestone attached?03:48
=== jdub buzzes off again :)
Kamionjdub: not sure it had a bug attached, even ...03:50
KamionPS several uploads waiting for approval03:50
mjg59Kamion: What's the graphical installer based on at the moment?03:50
Kamionmjg59: gtk03:50
Kamion(er, not quite sure what you mean)03:50
mjg59Just using the gtk debconf front-end, or something nicer?03:51
mjg59And is this framebuffer or X?03:51
Kamionjust cdebconf-gtk for now, will have more bolted onto it03:51
Kamionrunning AWAY from X03:51
mjg59Hrm. Has anyone ported atk to the framebuffer?03:51
mjg59It's quite X specific at the moment03:51
mjg59It'd be nice to get the accessibility support for free03:52
Kamionatk? the accessibility library?03:52
mjg59What's the main problem with X?03:52
Kamionbig pile more complexity that we don't need?03:53
Kamionplus size; even with gdk-directfb we're going to be hitting initrd size limits on many systems unless we're very careful03:53
Kamionpowermac netboot already has no chance03:54
mjg59Ah, ok - I'd assumed you'd be using a filesystem mounted off the media for graphical install03:54
mjg59My (not very strongly founded) recollection is that RH doesn't do graphical installs when netbooted03:54
Kamionwe don't get to mount the installation media until after cdebconf has already displayed some questions03:55
jdubnight all03:55
Kamionwww.directfb.org is probably the place to look for any accessibility stuff03:55
Kamionthere is XDirectFB, but I suspect daniels will consider it BONG; dunno03:55
mjg59Looks like there's no support at the moment03:56
mjg59That's a shame - an accessible installer would rock03:56
Kamionin theory we could restart cdebconf with a different frontend, but it's not going to be trivial ...03:56
Kamionhas anyone tried to get the directfb frontend merged into gdk proper, I wonder?03:57
jdubmjg59: i'm going to do an accessible derivative03:57
mjg59jdub: Rock03:58
azeemdid you consider using plain GTK for the first stage, and just map the user directions to the debconf-database?03:58
jdubmjg59: there's a lot of bong requirements that sighted people will just baulk at03:58
Kamionazeem: what do you mean?03:58
mjg59jdub: Oh, most of your posts to ubuntu@ seem to appear twice03:58
jdubmjg59: i have a local testing team too ;)03:58
jdubmjg59: some; evo bug. :|03:58
jdubgood night03:58
azeemKamion: IMHO debconf-gtk looks pretty different from usual GNOME applications, so it might be more work to get it look right than just do it natively03:59
azeemhaven't looked at it, of course03:59
Kamionazeem: that would really, really suck03:59
azeemheh :)03:59
Kamionazeem: you're talking about writing a new installer, not porting the existing one.03:59
Kamionazeem: we need to use cdebconf, otherwise it is not maintainable04:00
Kamionazeem: also, nobody's even touched the cdebconf gtk frontend since March (and not seriously for much longer, I think), so it's not surprising that it's raw04:00
KamionI did some work a few days ago to start cleaning it up, but it'll take a while04:01
azeemwell, I meant just redoing the UI dialogs and using cdebconf to set the values, based on what the user does04:01
Kamionazeem: we have some glade-related plans that will have that kind of effect, but it's not that simple04:01
azeemyeah, I guess04:02
Kamionazeem: there is a lot of code in the installer that does things like setting the range of values presented to the user based on the answers to previous questions in the same udeb04:02
pittijamesh: can I please ask you for help again?04:02
Kamionazeem: if we bypass and duplicate that code, the result won't be maintainable, so we need to come up with a way to keep it (db_callback or similar)04:03
pittijamesh: on www.piware.de/gvfs-unmount.c I put a version of my unmounting procedure04:03
Kamion(I suggested db_callback to joeyh on Saturday and he shuddered ... :-))04:03
pittiAnybody here who knows about gnome-vfs programming?04:07
=== pitti bites in his table
Kamionanyone know of anybody selling boxes with Ubuntu preinstalled yet?04:11
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pittiseb128: have you ever programmed some stuff with gnome-vfs2? Do you know how to correctly unmount a device?04:18
seb128yes and no04:18
pittiseb128: My function for unmounting the cd in the gvfs way worked after ten minutes04:19
pittiseb128: but it makes n-c-b crash when it starts to burn04:19
pittiseb128: so I assume I have to free some resource or whatever to make it wok04:19
pittiseb128: www.piware.de/gvfs-unmount.c shows my current version04:19
pittiseb128: do you think it will hurt much if I just call "pumount /dev/whatever" instead of going through the gvfs calls?04:23
pittiseb128: respective pumount -l04:23
seb128do whatever you feel right04:23
seb128I've > 100 bugs in my list now, I don't really have time to look on this04:23
pittiseb128: np, just asked04:25
pittiseb128: I don't know much about this gvfs stuff...04:26
seb128where are you testing this function ?04:26
pittiseb128: it's not documented at all04:26
seb128I know ...04:26
pittiseb128: where? on my pc?04:26
seb128in nautilus04:26
seb128or as a standalone soft ?04:26
pittiseb128: I call n-c-b /path/to/image04:26
seb128speaking with a gnome-vfs guy, he says that you should start to test it out of nautilus-cd-burner04:28
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pittiseb128: I think I have found my error04:53
seb128oh ?04:54
pittiseb128: can you tell me which function to call when I'm waiting for something?04:54
pittiseb128: while(...) sleep(1) is not good since it does not process callback functions04:54
pittiseb128: is there something like a gnome_sleep_but_process_events()?04:54
seb128you can use g_idle_add ()04:56
pittiseb128: I call gnome_vfs_drive_unmount with a callback and must wait for the callback to be called04:56
rosswhile (gtk_events_pending ()) gtk_main_iteration ();04:56
rossmight do what you want04:56
seb128yes, but that's ugly, isn't it ?04:57
rossdepends what you want to do04:57
seb128you should use async stuff in nautilus04:57
pittiseb128: actually I want to unmount the CD synchronously04:57
pittiseb128: that's why I have to wait for the callback to happen04:57
rossyou can probably block on a signal arriving04:57
thomseb128: yeah, still no change with FAST04:59
seb128same mime in gnomevfs-info ?04:59
seb128ok, thanks05:01
thomgar. does cdbs really annoy anyone else? :(05:14
Kamionthom: yep05:14
danielsthom: it's not that bad05:15
danielsi use it for all my xlibs packages, and it's used in dbus05:15
danielswhat's wrong with it?05:15
daniels(then again, I have been known to like dbs)05:15
thomit just feels totally over engineered, and makes it far too hard to work out what's going on under the hood05:16
thomKamion: oh good :-)05:16
danielsthom: how come acpi-support doesn't use dbs?05:21
seb128thom: bah, cdbs is cooool :)05:22
thomdaniels: shuttit,foo05:24
thomseb128: you're french, though. i've seen french attempts at cool before ;-)05:24
Kamioncdbs is yet another of those things that the maintainers of packages who uses it love, and anybody else who tries to understand what's going on in those packages hates05:25
=== seb128 slaps thom
Kamions/uses/use/ # I knew the grammar seemed funny when I wrote that05:25
seb128Kamion: you don't have to understand what's going on, the debian/rules has 3 lines most of the time05:25
Kamionseb128: oh yes I do05:25
Kamionwhen something breaks, as it does05:25
Kamionor when I want to change something05:26
KamionI'm very very scared of any piece of software where somebody says "you don't have to understand what's going on" :-)05:26
seb128yes, cdbs is missing some documentation on the internals05:26
seb128yeah, but we use it for almost all the GNOME packages05:26
Kamionbecause it usually means that when I need to understand it I won't be able to05:26
seb128and no problem at all05:26
KamionGNOME has a sane upstream, that's different ...05:27
=== Kamion wonders how to test this debconf change
KamionI guess I can hack the new package into my local Ubuntu archive and debootstrap05:36
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pittisorry, wrong window...06:18
pittimdz: already awake?06:31
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=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
npmccallumKamion: can I get approval for 1516?07:07
mdzpitti: awake07:08
pittimdz: Good morning!07:08
pittimdz: The new utopia stack is ready07:08
mdzpitti: do you have i386 debs I can try?07:08
pittimdz: but instead of typing it into IRC, I'm just writing an announcement to u-devel; might be better to test this on a broader basis07:08
pittimdz: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~pitti/utopia/  (aptable)07:08
pittimdz: The announcement will be on the list in a few minutes07:09
pittimdz: its now on the list07:11
npmccallumpitti: I did a dist-upgrade with your site in sources.list, it only upgraded dbus: no hal, etc07:13
pittinpmccallum: that's odd, let me look...07:13
pittinpmccallum: speling error :-) Packges.gt07:13
pittinpmccallum: can you please try it again=07:14
pittinpmccallum: s/=/?/07:14
npmccallumnope, not yet07:15
Kamionnpmccallum: whoops, forgot about that. comment added. I want to look at that debconf encoding stuff before we blindly work around whatever the problem is.07:16
npmccallumpitti: I mean, I tried again, but its still not working07:16
pittinpmccallum: odd, http://people.no-name-yet.com/~pitti/utopia/Packages.gz now exists and shows all packages07:17
pittinpmccallum: did you apt-get update'd again?07:17
Kamionnpmccallum: (because it might indicate some problem in debconf's internationalization support, and if it does then we *must* fix that)07:18
npmccallumok, I removed it from sources.list, readded it, re apt-get updated, and its working now07:18
npmccallumbut it wants to remove GVM!?07:18
pittinpmccallum: the new hal conflicts to the older gvm07:19
pittinpmccallum: you have to upgrade gvm, too07:20
pittinpmccallum: can't apt work this out automatically?07:20
npmccallumbut its not upgrading it07:20
npmccallumpitti: it should, but its not07:20
npmccallumpitti: you have no GVM package in your ~pitti/utopia directory07:21
pittinpmccallum: bad. In fact the Conflicts: even existed before, I just bumped the version07:21
pittinpmccallum: good point07:21
pittinpmccallum: sorry, I upload it07:21
pittinpmccallum: uploaded07:23
pittinpmccallum: does it work now?07:27
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=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pitti is still not used to the fact that ^W does _not_ delete the line in xchat :-(
MithrandirC-u does that07:29
pittiMithrandir: tell that to a seasoned vim user :-)07:29
npmccallumpitti: everything is working well here, though I haven't done extensive testing07:30
pittinpmccallum: so apt-upgrading now works? Without any dpkg questions?07:30
=== pitti is relieved
fabbionemdz: permission to upload X ubuntu2207:31
npmccallumpitti: yes, everything now works07:31
fabbioneXv extensions are working now07:31
fabbioneconfirmed by the testers07:31
npmccallumpitti: the new version even picks up my usb key :)07:31
npmccallumpitti: the old hal didn't :)07:31
pittiMithrandir: not for me, BTW. ^U does nothing07:31
mdzfabbione: nice catch :-)07:31
pittinpmccallum: has it partitions?07:31
mdzfabbione: any other changes?07:31
fabbionemdz: ps i will upload tomorrow morning07:31
npmccallumpitti: yes07:31
pittinpmccallum: huh, what did hal-device-manager say to it?07:31
pittinpmccallum: anyway, great if it works now07:32
fabbionemdz: xfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu22) warty; urgency=low07:32
fabbione  * Update 000_stolen_from_HEAD.diff:07:32
fabbione    + Include Xv/framebuffer fix for xf86xv.c.07:32
fabbione  * Update 030_Xserver_and_driver_region_primitive_fixups.diff:07:32
fabbione    + Fix REGION_EQUAL call in nv_driver.c.07:32
fabbione  * Update Czech debconf template translations (thanks, Miroslav Kure).07:32
fabbione  * Apply fix for Keycodes for PrintScreen and SysRq. (Closes: #1762)07:32
fabbionemdz: the first 2 are for the Xv extensions07:32
mdzfabbione: right, looks good, OK to upload07:32
fabbionemdz: third one.. you guess it07:32
=== pitti goes to find sth to eat
fabbionemdz: hold on.. the latter.. please read what i wrote on the bug07:32
mdzfabbione: I remember the bug07:32
fabbionemdz: i added info07:32
fabbionemdz: with gdb info07:32
fabbionemdz: i applyed the patch from X.org but the problem is not in X07:33
mdzfabbione: so there is more than one bug, one of them not in X?  or there is no bug in X (in that case, what does the patch do)?07:34
fabbionemdz: the patch remaps SysRq (<alt>+print) to print07:34
fabbionemdz: it is applied in 2 points of the code07:34
fabbionemdz: but apparently applications still do not understand it07:34
mdzwhy should SysRq be remapped to print?07:35
fabbionemdz: the gdb session shows it clearly07:35
mdzI thought PrintScrn was the key to take a screenshot07:35
fabbionemdz: yes.. on i386 they are the same key07:35
fabbionemdz: that's correct07:35
mdzso print screen should -> Print and alt+print screen should -> SysRq07:36
mdzor is there no keysym for sysrq?07:36
fabbionemdz: that's what is actually happening07:36
fabbioneapparently SysRq is used for screenshot of a window07:36
fabbionewhile print is for the entire screen07:36
mdzahh, ok07:36
fabbionein both cases gnome fails to detected it07:36
fabbioneso they bounced the crap down to xfree8607:37
fabbionexfree86 now has this lame remapping all over07:37
fabbionebut applications still fail to get it07:37
fabbionei am off for today07:37
fabbionemdz: someone needs to update linux-restricted07:38
fabbionewith the latest kernel07:38
mdzgood night07:38
fabbionecya tomorrow07:38
mdzI don't see why X needs to remap that stuff, but if you think it is correct to include that patch, it's OK with me07:38
fabbionei will upload tomorrow07:39
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
elmo_Kamion: ?07:59
Kamionelmo_: yep?08:03
elmo_kamion: linux-image bumped soname (or whatever) - can you let me know when I can remove the old ones?08:15
elmo_(no rush)08:15
Kamionnpmccallum: the new default bash colours are really foul; when you pop up a terminal you get bright green on white for the username/hostname, which is bordering on painful to read08:18
Kamioncan we have some slightly more background-neutral ones?08:18
npmccallumKamion: I'm not sure what you mean -- There are no colors on by default08:19
Kamionnpmccallum: I just installed from a daily build and got these08:20
Kamion(amd64, but I'm sure it doesn't matter)08:20
npmccallumKamion: it wasn't my doing then08:20
Kamionnpmccallum: ah, maybe doko's changes08:20
KamionI thought he talked to you about those08:21
Kamionelmo_: ok, will do, need to rev linux-kernel-di-*08:21
npmccallumHe mentioned that he found a typo (rogue colon)08:21
npmccallumbut that was it08:21
npmccallummaybe he did some other stuff too, I have no idea08:21
Kamionnpmccallum: 1164     Sep 25 Matthias Klose  (  50) Accepted bash 2.05b-2-15ubuntu4 (source)08:24
Kamionnevertheless, perhaps colours which look somewhat better with our default terminal would be a good idea08:27
npmccallumKamion: I turned on colors for the terminal a while ago and almost got shot :)08:28
Kamionyeah, I don't think colours-by-default is going to be too popular :)08:28
npmccallumits not with people coming from the debian world, but it is with people coming from gentoo and the like08:28
Kamiondo they really like eye-bleedingly painful colours? :-)08:29
npmccallumthe colors that I originally put in are from Gentoo, though I don't know if they have been changed or not08:29
Kamion(I wouldn't be too upset with darker ones)08:29
npmccallumbright green looks good with a black background08:29
Kamionperhaps Gentoo's terminal has a black background by default08:29
npmccallumit does08:30
npmccallumwell, not the gnome one08:30
Kamionof course, I switch the terminal to a black background first chance I get, but ...08:30
npmccallumme too :)08:30
=== Kamion wonders if there's a way to pick a readable colour based on the background colour
npmccallumthere isn't08:31
npmccallumits all ansi escape codes08:31
Kamiondidn't think so - oh well08:31
Kamionwell, you can retrieve the background colour using ANSI escape codes08:31
Kamionit's just painful08:31
mdzelmo_: speaking of the kernel, there should be more NEW enjoyment for linux-meta now, and linux-restricted-modules shortly08:32
mdzI'm not sure that linux-meta is quite right yet08:33
npmccallumKamion: we should just make gnome-terminal's colors white on black by default ;) (if you want to get shot that is)08:33
mdzKamion: do you agree that it would be nice to have a single metapackage which would install matching versions of the kernel and restricted-modules, for d-i purposes?08:33
Kamionmdz: definitely08:33
npmccallummdz: that would fix bug #183508:34
Kamionmdz: although I'm not sure how well it plays with people who want to remove the restricted-modules08:34
mdzKamion: right08:34
mdzthe question is whether we should have two08:34
mdzone which gives you the latest recommended kernel08:34
=== Kamion is uploading incremented-ABI linux-kernel-di now
mdzand one which gives you the kernel + restricted-modules08:34
mdzand if we should, what do we call them?08:34
Kamionno good ideas on naming I'm afraid08:35
mdzcurrently we have linux-<flavour> which depends on both image and modules08:36
mdzbut it's in main, and depends on restricted08:36
mdzso it seems to want to be split for that reason as well08:36
KamionI can deal with installing two packages08:36
mdzwell, we also need it for upgrades08:36
mdzotherwise the image gets upgraded and the modules never do08:37
mdzand they just vanish08:37
Kamionyou could make the restricted-modules metapackage depend on an exact version of the kernel metapackages08:37
Kamionthen you'd have to upgrade it or remove the metapackage, and if people remove the metapackage then we can't help them anyway08:38
Kamionand since the two come from the same source package, there's no maintenance issue with having Depends: linux (= ${Source-Version})08:39
Kamion(or whatever)08:39
mdzwell, the modules concrete package depends on an exact kernel version08:39
mdzso if we start installing the modules metapackage rather than the concrete, we should get reasonable upgrade behaviour08:39
mdztying them together with a metapackage seems like the right thing to do, there is only this naming problem08:41
mdzJane bailed us out of the last naming roadblock; I'll ask her08:41
mdzhm, she left08:41
Kamionthis is relatively easy to do in base-installer, but I was holding off fixing the bug that made it not work until I had a restricted-modules metapackage08:41
dokokamion: my mistake, I left the color prompt enabled after testing. I'll have to make a new upload disablint it.08:41
Kamionmdz: you don't get reasonable upgrade behaviour just from that, actually08:41
Kamionmdz: since the old kernel concrete package stays installed08:42
mdzKamion: aptitude will remove it08:42
Kamionwhich is why I think metapackage dependencies are necessary08:42
mdzbut arguably it should stay installed, in case the new one breaks08:42
Kamionwhat? that's insanity08:42
mdzwell, the install kernel should always stay, since that was installed explicitly08:42
mdzbut things pulled in by metapackage dependencies will be removed by aptitude when the dependency goes away08:42
Kamionwon't the kernel package stay, since the prerm bails out if it's the currently running kernel?08:42
mdzhmm, possibly08:43
mdzI bet that pisses aptitude off08:43
mdzanyway, speaking of kernels, it's time for a couple of reboots to test if -3 fixes my issues08:43
Kamionelmo_: linux-kernel-di-* uploaded, let me know when you've NEW-processed them since I need to change debian-installer at that point08:44
elmo_Kamion: hmm, don't see them?08:47
elmo_oh, right, being built08:47
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzyay, fixes the APIC issue with my system08:49
Kamionmdz: been trying to fix the debconf noninteractive/seen thing; turns out to be amusing to fix, my current attempt causes the aa_DJ locale to be generated by default on new installations08:49
mdzKamion: aa_DJ and only aa_DJ?  or all of them?08:50
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Kamion(I'm relatively sure we don't have enough Afar speakers to merit that :-))08:50
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Kamionmdz: only aa_DJ; the default implementation of the noninteractive select element sets the value to the first item in the list08:51
Kamionand evidently I've slightly changed the behaviour there, not so unexpectedly ...08:51
elmo_SKIP (too new)08:52
elmo_Rejected: nvidia-kernel-source_1.0.6111-1ubuntu2_i386.deb: old version (1.0.6111-1ubuntu2) in warty >= new version (1.0.6111-1ubuntu2) targeted at warty.08:52
mdzoh EW08:56
mdzneed to manually update debian/rules for every new version08:57
mdzuploading -708:58
Kamionoff to karate, back in a couple of hours08:59
mdzis it just me, or are linux-meta and linux-source now building some of the same binaries?09:09
mdzelmo_: I suppose that's something that ought to be fixed in short order?09:09
elmo_mdz: it's not disastrous from my POV?09:18
mdzelmo_: which one will end up in Packages?09:18
elmo_whichever is newer09:18
elmo_if they're the same one will be  REJECTed09:18
mdzfascinating.  that happens to be the right thing in this case09:18
mdzer, no it doesn't09:19
mdz-meta is at, and -source is at -809:19
mdzelmo_: if I remove the metapackages from linux-source, will that do the right thing and let the -meta ones come out, or will it disappear?09:20
elmo_mm, people are wanting to go for food09:21
elmo_mdz: nothing will disappear automatically09:21
mdzelmo_: so I should upload linux-meta with a higher version number, I suppose09:21
elmo_mdz: yeah, sounds like a plan09:22
mdzelmo_: ok, don't let me keep you. a thumbs up/down on that plan would be great09:22
fabbionebah i can't sleep09:26
=== thom lends fabbione a large baseball bat
thomor a copy of the X protocol specs09:32
thomi guess either would work09:32
Mithrandirsounds icky09:33
fabbionethom: ?09:33
fabbionethom: dude.. what's going on?09:38
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=== vuntz [~vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dokomdz: as I need to disable the colorprompt anyway, should #1758 (lesspipe) really be enabled by default in the profile?09:51
mdzdoko: you need to disable the prompt why?09:52
dokomdz: the ugly color prompt I left enabled by default09:53
mdzdoko: oh, did it become enabled in your last upload or something?09:53
dokoyes, I accidentally left it on after trying.09:54
mdzI see, it is only in the skel09:54
mdzdoko: do you see any harm in enabling lesspipe by default?09:54
dokoin that case I would like to alias more to less, so that the user has the same experience with both commands.09:55
mdzthat doesn't make sense to me; they have different user interfaces09:56
dokofor a beginner, they are about the same, but "more changelog.gz" and "less changelog.gz" should have the same experience.09:59
mdzI think that enabling lesspipe in less and aliasing more to less are entirely separate propositions10:01
dokowelcome to the can of worms of user profiles ;-) I'll add the lesspipe suggestion, but I would prefer to leave it commented out.10:02
mdzsome programs can view compressed files, and some cannot (e.g., vim/emacs vs. gedit), but they should remain distinct because users expect to get what they ask for10:02
mdzok, if you have doubts, please raise the issue for discussion on ubuntu-devel10:03
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mdzdoko: please don't wait to fix the colour prompt bug; that must be fixed for the next daily CD build10:15
dokofine, and for now I added the lesspipe line as well (commented out).10:16
thomfabbione: either one would help you sleep ;-)10:25
=== thom yawns and stretches
fabbionethom: ehehe i got it.. very late ;)10:26
thomjust converted firefox to dpatch10:26
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npmccallumKamion: thanks for fixing the po-debconf bug :), you should probably report something on #132910:44
Kamionnpmccallum: it was waiting for a sync, hadn't yet read the mail that the sync was done11:14
KamionI did update the status whiteboard on #1329 earlier :)11:14
Kamionnpmccallum: oh, bugger, no I didn't, I had a mid-air collision in bugzilla and forgot to follow through. anyway, closing now11:16
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mdzKamion: how long before the new kernel propagates to a daily CD?11:58

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