=== Kamion [~cjwatson@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mako [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Ubuntu Community Council Meeting -- 2004-09-30 1600UTC || Agenda at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tseng [~tseng@thegrebs.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-16-194.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === daniels [daniel@fooishbar.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === __keybuk [scott@syndicate.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === theantix [~ryan@80.198.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === sivang [~sivang@80.179.82.182.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:00] hmm , has the meeting concluded already? [06:00] hasn't started yet [06:00] k, I ought to get myself a UTC aware watch on a panerl or somethig ;-) [06:00] hey everybody [06:01] hi sabdfl! [06:01] Hi sabdfl [06:01] greets , pitti! [06:01] sivang: no, about to start [06:01] morning / afternoon / evening / night all [06:02] just calling elmo... === mako has been "auditing" the governance webpages [06:02] simple clarifications i can do on my own but i had a couple issues i wanted to bring up [06:03] any additions to the agenda while we get everyone together? [06:03] i think that is part of the second item [06:03] CommunityCouncilAgenda on the wiki [06:03] (link in the topic) === elmo_ [~james@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:04] hey james [06:04] hey [06:04] ok, i think we have everyone [06:04] Kamion: ? [06:05] here [06:05] ok all set [06:05] excellent! :) [06:05] let's start with team structures, leaders and goals === sivang is glad he made it back home at exactly the right time. [06:05] has everyone reviewed what's on the site? [06:05] no jdub again? tsk. [06:05] ye [06:05] +ah [06:06] http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/ [06:06] maybe we should introduce ourselves too [06:06] sure [06:06] i'm mark shuttleworth, chief cook at the lunchpad === silbs [~jane@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:07] Keybuk: to be fair, it's 2am here [06:07] isn't there also a security team? [06:07] sponsor of the project, gatherer of linux lovers from all timezones ;-) [06:07] daniels: he's usually up by now [06:07] mako: over to you [06:07] sabdfl : that's for sure ;) [06:07] i'm Benjamin Mako Hill, long free software troublemaker (in teh good way) and community dude for ubuntu [06:08] Kamion: [06:08] "You may know me from such films as, "Ubuntu Traffic"' [06:08] lol [06:08] I'm Colin Watson, installer team leader [06:08] and "The guy who got arrested because he LOOKED guilty of something" [06:08] fairly long-time Debian guy [06:08] erm, that's mako i was referring to, not kamion [06:09] hey, I've got the suspicious long hair too [06:09] Kamion justs gets stopped and searched at airports, and then has things confiscated [06:09] elmo_: [06:09] haha === yuval [~Yuval@62.90.243.163] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:09] I'm James Troup, long term source of all evil in Debian. you may know me from such debian-devel-announce gems as "Serious Problems With ...." [06:09] guys, is this a mad tv presentation or what ? ;-) [06:09] sivang: you should see the conferences [06:09] sabdfl : they get better? [06:09] ok, any guests want to introduce themselves? [06:10] I'd like to ;) [06:10] go ahead [06:10] I am Sivan Green, a long time computer enthusiast for Isreal, and a former debian addict, now a ubuntu can't live without. [06:10] *from [06:10] welcome [06:11] ground rules [06:11] Daniel Stone, Ubuntu distro team member, fd.o Release Manager, random X hacker, tla pusher, have had no disparaging emails written about me on debian-devel-announce [06:11] Martin Pitt; currently responsible for general distro security and hotplugging issues, and also a Debian guy (mainly PostgreSQL) [06:11] it's an open meeting, everyone's welcome to contribute (we'll see if that stays sustainable as the crowd grows) [06:11] I'm Ryan Thiessen, longtime Linux user and big fan of the ideas (and implementation) of Ubuntu [06:11] hiya, I'm Brandon Hale, most famous as a Gentoo developer, or Ubuntu mono packages. [06:11] we aim for consensus within the council and with any team thats responsible for an isse [06:11] issue [06:12] Scott James Remnant, Ubuntu Technical Board member and Python Team leader, Debian dpkg maintainer, cute fez-wearing monkey. [06:12] daniels: dude, you forgot: Kernel Hacker [06:12] elmo_: ('Linux Kernel Hacker') [06:12] daniels: yet. you can aspire to greatness too. [06:12] I would like to thank Kamion _again_ , for having Jeff invite me to all this fun, before preview relese ;) [06:13] so, on with business [06:13] team structures, leaders, goals [06:13] everyone seen the web site? [06:13] i did a quick one through [06:13] are there any teams that don't have leaders? === vuntz [~vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:14] yep, similar questions to mako about governing board refs I think [06:14] i think http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/ [06:14] IA64 Port Team? [06:14] which is not off the ground [06:14] wondering about powerpc team but perhaps I have enough work to do :-) [06:14] mako: useful to have there as the first non-company one though [06:14] Kamion: let's see if we can find another volunteer [06:14] sabdfl: um, so about the community council structure [06:14] on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/ there's no security team [06:15] pitti: good call [06:15] daniels: can you bring it up at the end once we've worked through everything else? [06:15] an oversight perhaps [06:15] sabdfl: sure [06:15] ok, will add a security team, who is the leader? [06:15] sabdfl: oh sorry, missed the 'team' in structures/leaders/goals [06:15] mdz would be the name that jumps to mind [06:16] unless he doesn't want it and/or someone else does [06:16] sure, but i'm concerned mdz may have taken on superhuman tasks already :-) [06:16] pitti then [06:16] if mdz is too busy, then pitti is the other obvious candidate [06:16] <__keybuk> pitty? [06:16] he's pretty much a mini-mdz [06:16] ;-) [06:16] I'm not opposed to that [06:16] pitti seems the reasonable choice ;) [06:16] elmo_: thanks :-) [06:16] pitti: you need to learn to climb walls tho dude, like the Master [06:17] pitti: would you at least be interesting in being on the team? [06:17] sabdfl: in any case! [06:17] sabdfl: as I said, I'm willing to take the team lead, unless mdz wants it [06:17] so how about this for a proposal: we let mdz and pitti come back with a recommendation for leader [06:18] works for me [06:18] agreed [06:18] ok, let's see how mdz feels, he may want to work with you a little longer before handing that responsibility over [06:18] ok done, i'll put that on the site now [06:18] sabdfl: that's why I did not step forward immediately [06:19] any other team suggestions? [06:19] matthew garrett has agreed to be team lead of the laptop team, and thom may to lead the server team [06:20] yay mjg59 [06:20] what about a documentation team? or is it premature for this? [06:20] sivang: good call [06:20] sivang: very good idea [06:20] (desktop?) usability team? [06:20] sivang: you volunteering? :) [06:20] daniels: there is a desktop team [06:20] i'll put that team up, but it may take a while to find the right lead for that one [06:20] mako : hmm, ofcourse ! [06:20] http://www.debian.org/intro/organization [06:21] ^-- might be worth leeching team ideas from that === mjg59 [mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:21] hey matthew, was just using your name in vain [06:21] mjg59: IRT the laptop team [06:22] Ah, cool [06:22] any other suggestions for teams? [06:22] mjg59: your team TOTALLY has the best webpage :) [06:22] thanks mako :-) [06:23] i18n/l10n :) [06:23] mako: url? [06:23] ? [06:23] speaking of which, lu says we should be all set for web site editing by monday [06:23] that was a question/suggestion [06:23] which will parallelise the thing somewhat [06:23] daniels: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/laptop [06:23] I also though about a user support team, however I am not sure for how it shall function. and ofcourse we should have a QA team also, for later on the project. [06:23] mako: right, ta [06:24] sivang: i thought of that too [06:24] a QA team needs careful thought to avoid turning into Debian's QA team [06:24] Kamion: what do we need to avoid? [06:24] mako : sorry, i've probably missed your mail on the list. [06:24] which is a good idea and has the effect of mentoring a lot of new useful developers, but really doesn't do much sensible QA [06:24] i think user support may not be teh best thing handled by a community team with a lead and such [06:25] largely because of the difficulty of doing work across all packages in Debian [06:25] I think we all should provide user support [06:25] pitti: clearly [06:25] mako : well yes, it can be everyone of us accidently on the channel ;) not much of team. [06:25] pitti: user support tends to keep us honest [06:25] yes, it's one of the great advantages of open source [06:25] Kamion: it takes too much working hours away, but nevertheless I think it is important [06:25] (though it can lead to early burnout) [06:26] so let's defer a decision on a qa team till we have volunteers and a process proposal [06:26] sabdfl: I think sivang's right, it's too early yet to need to worry about a QA team, it can be a general distro team task for now [06:26] agreed. mako, elmo? [06:26] yeah [06:26] sounds good [06:26] what about i18n and l10n? [06:27] how about an external relations team that managed relationships with debian, gnu arch, and other external projects we have a close relationship with? [06:27] should be high priority given our commitments [06:27] i suggested it and i think it makes a lot of sense [06:27] mako: which? [06:27] sabdfl: mako suggested i18n/l10n [06:27] sabdfl: just agreeing with you === lulu [~lu@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:28] ah, ok, i'm just slow, and thought i'd had an original idea for a sec. doh [06:28] trying not to reflect on how great my idea is without disclaiming the fact [06:28] i've had a preliminary discussion with daf on that front [06:28] I'm concerned that if we start up an i18n/l10n team before some of our company infrastructure is ready to support them they may end up duplicating a lot of work [06:28] if that infrastructure is ready to go, I'm all for it [06:29] we already are having i18n bugs that are just getting assigned to me or to others [06:29] daniels: sounds potentially connected with PR etc. [06:29] input methods, etc [06:29] Kamion: daf is concerned that we might lose momentum if we *don't* have some sort of structure to channel the good energy the preview created [06:29] and quite honestly, it *needs* to be a team [06:29] Kamion: you could define it to either be merely relationships with open source projects, or handling all external relations [06:29] because i don't know a thing about input into the vast majority of languages :) [06:29] sabdfl: yes, it's two-way ... if daf's ready, that's great, let's go [06:30] we will probably initially just have an outlet for l10n patches more than infrastructure [06:30] but rosetta is in alpha: rosetta.shuttleworthfoundation.org [06:30] Kamion: open source on its own is a reasonably large swathe -- debian, python?, gnome, arch, kde?, x, kernel, et al; anything we use/extend/whatever. [06:30] even if it's just patches, input methods, locales, fonts, it's still worth it [06:30] and will be usable in a few weeks, i'm sure [06:31] i18n team leader? [06:31] Kamion, sabdfl: but we're talking about more than just translation as well [06:31] although that is the biggest piece probably [06:31] Kamion: daf? [06:31] daf would be great [06:31] if he's interested in taking it on [06:31] yup [06:31] he just headed out the door for wales, will catch him on irc later [06:32] can we call it the translation team rather than the l10n team? [06:32] jordi mallach may be interested as well [06:32] sabdfl: there are lots of non-translation issues, hence the i18n/l10n label [06:33] I don't know whether they make sense as a single team, may or may not [06:33] understood, but it's an overarching responsibility to "help Ubuntu be usable by all communities" [06:33] Kamion: i think at this point they probably do [06:33] we can split it when it looks like too big a job [06:33] ok, as long as we have a "translation team" where newbies with an interest can begin [06:34] this sort of thing is why symlinks were invented :-) [06:34] ok [06:34] now about team processes [06:34] currently the plan is that teams would present proposals to the council / tech board [06:34] sabdfl: external relations? [06:34] right, and the leader can come up with the "Canonical" name as whatever is most appropriate/recognizeable :) [06:35] daniels: good point [06:35] mako, elmo, Kamion? [06:35] is there a place that could fall under right now? [06:35] maybe just under CC [06:36] Hmm... "Canonical Evangelism" is dangerous territory ;-) [06:36] one thought woudl be to make that directly under the purview of the CC right now [06:36] both mako and jeff have been vocal spokesman, i'm happy for them to continue to play that role [06:36] I'm having trouble envisaging what an ER team would do, TBH [06:36] Kamion? [06:37] (as opposed to/in addition to/whatever Jeff +Mako).. but I'm not actively opposed, just unclear [06:37] we've been assigning that sort of work to people who have contacts in the relevant communities, thus far [06:37] yes, an i think that should continue to be the way we work [06:37] on the basis that established personal contacts win [06:37] with mako / jdub coordinating [06:37] the point where that stops working is communities where we don't already have established contacts [06:37] daniels: if you feel strongly that there's a need, you should maybe write it up a bit === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lamont [~lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:38] I think a group who take default responsibility for contacts with those communities would be useful [06:38] i think we can ultimately make that set of processes just directly answer able to the CC maybe [06:38] rather than a group i prefer an individual [06:38] with a group to back them up [06:38] seems maybe that an external relations team would be more responsible for setting the Ubuntu line, or something like that [06:39] sabdfl: right, agreed [06:39] Kamion: in that case, cc would be the best forum [06:39] (the main advantage that I can see is ... well yeah, what Colin just said, and also that other projects who are interested in working with us have a single point of contact, but no biggie) === mako_ [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:40] ok, then let's leave things as they stand for the moment [06:40] i dont want to create teams "just because" until we have real need and people with a passion for that specific role === mako_ nods [06:40] (erm, though we did just create a doc team :-) [06:41] we have real need :) [06:41] we have real need :) [06:41] what about an accessibility team? [06:41] heh. essentially, what I vaguely had in mind was no different from what Jeff, James/Colin, James/Robert, and, to a very small degree, myself, already do. [06:41] sabdfl: i like the idea a lot. but who would lead it? [06:42] mako_: like the idea of an accessibility team? [06:42] yes [06:42] me too, but we do need a leader in the absence of general skills available to carry it [06:42] maybe henrik omma? [06:42] I also like this idea very much, i also share the passion to it. [06:43] sivang: do you know henrik omma? [06:43] sabdfl : hmm, not yet ;) [06:43] sivang: YOU WILL :) [06:44] oh heck i have to take a guest here briefly, mako can you take over the chair for a while? [06:44] mako_ : *lol* [06:44] sabdfl: yes, got it [06:44] before i go, can i suggest we create a wiki page with proposed teams [06:44] then people can hash out ideas there [06:44] sabdfl: i'm taking notes [06:44] sabdfl: i'll wikify it [06:45] mako_: can you announce it in a mail? I've got to go, too [06:45] ok, brb [06:45] pitti: yes [06:45] any other ideas for a lead or contact for accessibility? === makoshark [~mako@dyn011084-106haven.cpmc.columbia.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:46] (i'm multiplying) [06:47] alright. lets move on then [06:47] also on the agenda was team structures and goals [06:48] the laptop team seems to be teh only one up with more than a sentance for goals [06:48] as soon as I can edit the web site I'll do something for the installer team [06:48] i think it might be nice to have the team leaders write a short itemized list or something [06:48] won't take more than a few minutes for most of them but it would be nice [06:49] in terms of structure [06:50] there doesn't seem to be anything up either defining what it means to be on a team, where this would be noted etc [06:50] yes, for new teams that should be part of the team creation process === mako nods [06:51] or what the relationship between teams and the larger ubuntu commmunity is in terms of decision-making [06:51] i think in the vast majority of cases, teams will be able to go about their business [06:51] I wouldn't go too far down the road of having formal team lists up on the web site; in general the team ought to be de facto the set of people who contribute, with some named people who do lots of work [06:52] Kamion: i'm happy with that [06:52] Kamion: although i think having some sort of visible recognition can be nice [06:52] even if it's like a "active contributors to this team have included..." [06:53] back [06:53] right, compare the Debian /intro/organization page that lists the very active people on e.g. boot-floppies or whatever [06:53] but with that concern out there, i think the less formal structures we place on this the better [06:53] agreed, they just get out of date [06:53] but I wouldn't want people thinking that they have to go through an application process to start making contributions [06:53] let's keep those pages simple [06:53] Kamion: exactly [06:53] uploads, yeah, but that's different [06:54] elmo_: y/n ? [06:54] elmo_: all sound reasonable? [06:54] in terms of goals i structured the laptop team page as an example [06:54] mako: yes [06:54] of setting goals per release [06:54] tho I think the whole "having just a team as a contact" is less than ideal thing is also true to a degree [06:54] sabdfl: i like it, we can send that out to teh team leaders [06:54] the more concrete we can make them the better [06:54] oh, but that's mitigated by leaders, ignore me [06:55] elmo_: also, there is a team contact email and irc channel [06:55] even if it is just ubuntu-devel [06:55] makes sense to me to list the really passionate contributors to a team as well as the leader [06:55] sabdfl: a bit of recognition can go a long way [06:55] should we create #channels and mail-lists for teams, or only wen volume requires it [06:55] ? [06:56] sabdfl: not by default [06:56] elmo_, Kamion? [06:56] agreed with mako, higher-volume teams may well want it but it doesn't make sense for e.g. the installer team of one for now [06:56] one thing that has worked well is having people using [foo] tags on devel if the traffic gets too difficutl to follow [06:56] in debian, custom and desktop have done this [06:56] that's a great idea [06:56] the more concrete ones should have, I suggest creating the python, security, desktop for example. [06:57] then we can also objectively measure traffic [06:57] (mailing lists) [06:57] because their work was low traffic, appealed to many people and people wanted to see what they were doing :) [06:57] sivang let's go with mako's [foo] suggestion, then set a threshold for a new list [06:57] right, and when custom got big, they got their own list :) [06:57] and collapse it back if traffic on that list drops again [06:57] sabdfl : agreed. :) === theantix [~ryan@80.198.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:57] so agreed: no new lists or channels till traffic requires it [06:58] sabdfl : sounds cool, that way major issues would never slip away from public eyes. [06:58] yes, i'd prefer to garden the list of lists to make sure we only advertise active and useful forums [06:58] it tends to be easier to create a list than to uncreate it :) [06:59] from a social/organizational perspective, not technical [06:59] well, we could send a final message to the list saying "closed for the winter, try over at ubuntu-devel", and then also set an autoresponder on that list address to say the same. [06:59] and the threshold can be largely qualitative [06:59] mako has a good point, maybe consider redirecting the lists address the a generl list upon traffic changes. [07:00] i'm sure the ubuntu-fabbionelikesmyshoes team will have a low threshold before being asked to form a list :-) [07:00] well, this more a warning about creating lists too quickly now.. we can worry about closing them when we get to there [07:00] ok, so agreed, no new lists [07:00] for teams [07:01] ubuntu-users has been, um explosive :-) [07:01] do we need any tuning on that front? [07:01] i'm not sure what we can do [07:01] the VAST majority of traffic is on topic [07:01] ok [07:01] high signal to noise? [07:01] and there aren't droves of unsubscriptions [07:01] sabdfl: yes, so far [07:02] we can sort it to sub topics, and instruct users, or even automate a mailing process from the OS, respective to the subject/problem etc... [07:02] i'm only totally caught up until last friday :) [07:02] can we get regular stats of subs versus unsubs as an indicator of forum usefulness? [07:02] sabdfl: yes [07:02] sabdfl: i can put that in traffic [07:02] mako: beter, bring it to this meeting [07:02] sabdfl: with the mailing list stats [07:03] oh, ok team traffic, yes [07:03] sure, that makes sense [07:03] mako: traffic would also be a good place to publish the stats === Mithrandir [~tfheen@vawad.raw.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:03] i didn't think the traffic would explode like that, it's been very exciting [07:03] yeah, we're already publishing mailing list stats there [07:04] debian tries to split it by, e.g. architecture, language and specific topics (laptop, firewall) - ime that doesn't work too well for the latter, but the former does - dunno if we have the arch traffic to justify the first yet tho [07:04] sure [07:04] elmo_: it doesn't look like it, although the mere presence may encourage more posting and discussion; still, big if [07:05] i think the threshold is not necessary a pure volume issue [07:05] sabdfl : even from the support person point of view, I'd like to be able to sort u-u's traffic so see which areas I am familiar with and give support to. [07:05] it's also a "relevance to the whole" issue === netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net === Kamion [~cjwatson@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:05] sorry, fell off; what did I miss? [07:05] Kamion: i'll msg you === KragenSitaker [~kragen@66-193-87-113.gen.twtelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:05] mako: yeah, the few postings to debian-bsd would just drown on -devel, for instance. [07:05] and similarly, I'd imagine, for ubuntu [07:06] 18:04:24) elmo_: debian tries to split it by, e.g. architecture, language and specific topics (laptop, firewall) - ime that doesn't work too well for the latter, but the former does - dunno if we have the arch traffic to justify the first yet tho [07:06] (18:04:51) mako: sure [07:06] (18:04:55) daniels: elmo_: it doesn't look like it, although the mere presence may encourage more posting and discussion; still, big if [07:06] (18:05:00) mako: i think the threshold is not necessary a pure volume issue [07:06] (18:05:05) sivang: sabdfl : even from the support person point of view, I'd like to be able to sort u-u's traffic so see which areas I am familiar with and give support to. === sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dieman [~dieman@3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:06] (18:05:07) mako: it's also a "relevance to the whole" issue === tseng [~tseng@thegrebs.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:06] kamion: ^^ [07:06] ok, i don't think we want hard thresholds for lists [07:06] but will take into account the wishes of that community [07:07] balanced against the broader user base [07:07] can team leaders edit their web pages, or should they send updates to lu/silbs/somebody? [07:07] so if an arch wants its own list and they have a bunch of people communicating with one another, then we create the list [07:07] Kamion: they will be able to edit their pages [07:08] we needed to integrate Zope with Launchpad and thats taken a while, hence the lockdown on web site editing [07:08] in fact most pages on the site will be editable by almost anyone until that bites us in some way [07:08] alright, that sounds good [07:09] (my screened connection is having trouble) [07:09] so can we move on to the community structures and processes? [07:10] first, this council itself [07:10] yeah, i think we've completely killed that first item [07:10] daniels, want to raise your question about the size of the council? [07:11] sure [07:11] if the community council is defined as being higher-up, and concerned with issues of far greater long-term weight (e.g. philosophical) than the technical board, should it necessarily be diluted to four members, who are there for two years? === mako_ [mako@micha.hampshire.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [07:12] not to cast aspersions on the current members or anything :) just that if there's going to be immense power/responsibility, four might be a little too concentrated. [07:12] mako_: did you miss a chunk? [07:12] sabdfl, makoshark is mako :) [07:12] sabdfl, i'm connected multiple times [07:12] ok [07:12] (that said, there are massive advantages to having a small team, also; personally, I'm rather ambivalent.) [07:12] (REDUNDANCY) [07:12] I would like to see more non-Canonical-staff here, but it's going to take a while for that to work [07:12] Kamion: agreed [07:12] Kamion, that was my suggestion as well [07:13] s/more/any on the council/ [07:13] I think we should regard four as a seed which will grow [07:13] absolutely [07:13] i'd like to keep the council small [07:13] daniels: so is your concern "too small and too long?" [07:14] and then go out to the broader "wise heads" community when there's a decision on the table that requires it [07:14] sabdfl: half-dozen or so? [07:14] absolute max [07:14] I agree we don't want to drown in committee syndrome [07:14] absolutely [07:14] (to death-by-committee) [07:14] for a given decision we might well ask the opinion of a much wider group [07:14] so we (read: sabdfl) should be careful to pick the bonus members since they'll be around longer === makoshark is now known as mako [07:15] makoshark: my concern was basically that if the council is dealing with issues of great importance, then adding one or two more members may help ease some concerns others *may* have [07:15]