=== hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:11] gack [01:11] missed the community meeting as it seems... [01:11] mako: ping? [01:15] T-Bone: mako sent minutes to ubuntu-devel [01:15] azeem: i've read them and have questions [01:15] ah :) [01:15] the first one being "how come i missed it? Where was it advertised?" [01:16] +s [01:17] the other one concerns the "IA64 Port Team" === T-Bone is currently bootstraping "stage2" on ia64 === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:22] T-Bone: I wouldn't really worry too much about that you missed the CC meeting; there's another one in two weeks and the port teams are a bit fuzzy still. :) [01:22] Mithrandir: k. Still i missed what was said there, and it's stupid since should have I been aware of such a meeting, i could easily have intended it [01:23] T-Bone: salut [01:23] mako: Dewd! === mako took an Official Ubuntu Nap [01:23] mako: long time no see! [01:23] the nap wasn't that long :) [01:24] T-Bone: mako will post the log and summary somewhere. :) [01:24] Mithrandir: *so* ahead of you :) [01:24] lol [01:24] Mithrandir: that went out pre-nap [01:25] T-Bone: in answer to your question: this was the first meeting and it was a bit disorganized [01:25] mako: ok. :) [01:25] T-Bone: it was actualy scheduled for a couple days ago and we missed it entirely [01:25] mako: disorganized, say you? How surprising! ;^) [01:26] T-Bone: so the new time was sort of put together last minute [01:26] okay [01:26] T-Bone: IRT the ia64 port, follow up to the list [01:27] T-Bone: not much was decided about the that team/port except that we confirmed that we want one :) [01:27] mako: lol, we have one! ;^) === T-Bone ducks! [01:27] oh, then great! :) [01:28] life is good === T-Bone wonders whether one guy is a team on his own ;^) [01:30] he might be a team leader :) [01:30] lol [01:30] i suppose he would have a hard time *not* being a team leader [01:30] 'leading himself'. Right, sounds good to me ;) [01:32] mako: seems i missed you in europe lately, as lamont told me... Will you be around again one of these days? [01:32] T-Bone: yep, i'll be back in december if not before [01:33] mako: cool, headed where? [01:33] T-Bone: not sure, maybe spain [01:33] i was in uk + germany last time [01:33] mako: ok! [01:34] i think there's a good chance we can meet up this next time :) [01:34] mako: cool, i'll stay tuned! ;) === T-Bone curses perl, still not building [01:46] okay, gotcha [01:46] debian has some patch for ia64 as it seems === mako nods [01:47] guess i have no choice but to use them [01:51] maybe someone should consider pushing this patchset into ubuntu, if it actually solves my troubles === lamont peeks his head in for about 2 seconds before really running away for the weekend [01:51] which i'll be able to tell in ~5mn [01:51] lamont: got gcc-3.4 ready. Perl failed again but i think i have a fix [01:52] T-Bone: cool. [01:53] i'm awaiting for it to succeed, hopefully. Then i'll debootstrap a stage2 clean chroot. I hope it'll work at once, if you're already away ;) [01:53] since ia64 won't be there for warty, we can diverge slightly with arch-specific fixes and the like, as long as we know what we did... [01:53] lamont: you said i can get rid of the --exclude=lsb-base, correct? [01:53] I hope to get online from the hotel throughout the weekend, but not sure how things'll go on that fornt. [01:53] lamont: i just fetched perl_5.8.4-2.3 from debian [01:53] front, even [01:53] that works [01:54] probably shouldn't exclude lsb-base - it got added to the warty bootstrap list for a reason... [01:54] lamont: i'll be online throughout the whole weekend hopefully, trying to achieve a full stage2 build [01:55] cool [01:55] will poke you if I get online. [01:55] tonight is going to be hell, followed by some sleep in the morning, I hope. [01:56] about to pass critical section [01:56] YATTA! [01:56] build is still running! [01:56] wooohoooo!! [01:56] YEeeeheeEE ;)) [01:56] build of? [01:56] perl! [01:57] elmo: ping? [01:57] lamont: last but not least: hppa stage1 is over! [01:58] lamont: with _much less failures_ than ia64, so bootstraping stage2 will actually be 34sY! ;) [01:59] heh [01:59] soooooo cool [01:59] lamont: aside from the installer, it looks like we'll have hppa as well ;) [02:05] awesome === T-Bone bows ;) [02:05] (and grins! ;) === lamont grumbles at t-bone for stealing his thunder. :-) [02:06] Niarh Niarh Niarh === T-Bone laughs evilishly ;^) === lamont waits for sounder 9 to burn to CD, decides that maybe he wants a CDRW in addition to the 4x dvd drive, because 4x is_SLOW_. [02:07] lamont: side note: i think we've also proven that hppa is stable SMP ;) [02:07] woohoo!! [02:08] lamont: my 4x just died finally which means i get a new one [02:08] which mean i get a dvd :) [02:08] i have no removeable media [02:09] both my cd drivers AND my usb keychain died at once [02:09] ouch :P [02:09] T-Bone: kind of.. it's not actually that big a deal :) [02:09] mako: why did you pour water on them, I wonder??? [02:09] removeable media isn't really that important [02:09] except when things break [02:10] lamont: lol, bad bad you ;) [02:11] lamont: http://gropaf.esiee.fr/~varenet/stage1 - gcc-3.4, alsa-lib, util-linux and openldap2 missing, build in progress [02:12] nice. Gotta run, before I get killed. Have to buy a tool or 3 at Home Depot (only place open this late), and finish plumbing at least most of the &*%)^ van. [02:12] lamont: bummer [02:12] Failed 35 test scripts out of 840, 95.83% okay. [02:12] make[3] : *** [_test_tty] Error 1 [02:12] make[3] : Leaving directory `/build/varenet/perl-5.8.4' [02:13] lamont: i guess i shall override this? [02:13] T-Bone: actually, I got this result when I built -2.3/unstable today on i386 as well [02:13] so I'm not sure who's to blame [02:13] azeem: ah. Maybe i should try -2.2 then [02:13] but it doesn't look like big deal to me === lamont wonders how well warty's perl would do on current warty... [02:13] well, -2.3 built fine on most buildds [02:13] anyway, later. [02:14] lamont: see ya [02:14] azeem: what would you recommend then? [02:14] no idea :( [02:14] I mean, not much has changed between -2.2 and -2.3, AFAIK === T-Bone looks at ia64 buildd [02:14] but perhaps you could try to build that [02:16] T-Bone: you don't get these 'Warning: Setting locale failed' thingies by accident, do you? [02:16] All tests successful. [02:16] azeem: kidding? Logs are flooded with those [02:17] looking at my own log, it seems this is the culprit [02:17] -2.3 did build on caballero [02:17] some tests include that in their check of the test output, and fail [02:17] azeem: damn! locale would harm perl? [02:17] ouch [02:17] bummer === T-Bone wonders how to fix those [02:17] T-Bone: you can build perl without running the test by exporting DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=x-perl-notest [02:18] azeem: would that work with sbuild? [02:18] if you export it prior to running sbuild, yes [02:18] ok [02:18] let's try [02:18] I did the same for other reasons today [02:18] it's a 15' build [02:20] lucky you, it was 1:50:48 here :) [02:20] lol [02:21] i ought to confess that these sweet boxes do rock hell ;) [02:21] well, it also just took 12' on my centrino notebook [02:21] hehe [02:21] the other one was a mobile Celeron 400... [02:21] lol === hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:49] mdz: I _really_ doubt 1221 is amd64 specific; I'll have to check when I get to the university tomorrow, but here, it goes away if I tell nautilus to not look at the magic inside the file. Or, the magic handling routine is broken === jdub chuckles at the gentoo forum that keybuk linked to [02:50] good lord [02:50] "noticeably faster!" [03:03] jdub: building things with -pipe will make your computer run faster [03:09] -funroll-loops used to be in the gentoo release engineering profile [03:09] i kicked and screamed for a good bit. [03:15] tseng: so we can't mock you for that any more? [03:19] Mithrandir: nope. [03:19] fixed mail archives coming right up [03:20] we got rid of that crap months ago [03:20] tseng: as soon as that terrible website went up? ;-) [03:20] jdub: no long before [03:20] that website is so bogus. [03:21] i could do the same thing for ubuntu users [03:21] or a much better one about fedora. [03:21] heh [03:21] as long as there is free support, there will be idiots crying for help or making ridiculous comments [03:21] has nothing to do with gentoo [03:22] tseng: you have to admit, gentoo does provide all the ammunition for serious google-archived life embarrassment [03:22] Gentoo just needs a page on the website that says "emerge != compiling by hand. Watching text scroll != compiling by hand" in huge point [03:22] or perhaps, "compiling software yourself is pointless" :) [03:23] jdub: hah we provide a forum for the uniformed mind of the world to unite into one festering cespool of nonsense [03:23] ive always ignored it, but im getting tired of some developers/politics as well [03:23] ubuntu is so fresh and so clean [03:25] hope we can keep it that way.. it will be challenging at times. [03:26] already collecting a bunch of pretty low IQ's in #ubuntu [03:26] but the development team is top-notch [03:29] one will always have some users who need a lot of help and guidance and are annoying as well, especially if you aim for a low new user barrier. [03:29] alot of first time irc action happening as well. [03:30] or just folks lacking manners [03:31] I like the fact that ubuntu actually has a code of conduct and you will be told off for breaking it. [03:31] hm [03:31] which goes for users as well as developers === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:07] 4AM, high time to go offline. See ya [04:11] amazing how quickly people stop whining when you point out that they can write patches [04:11] jdub for the win [04:50] hey [04:50] who's got latest packages [04:50] and a usb key [04:50] ? [04:50] me [04:50] can you stick in the key [04:50] copy something to it [04:50] and pull it out? [04:50] well [04:50] no unmounting [04:50] hal is seg'ing [04:50] oh [04:51] --- SIGCHLD (Child exited) @ 0 (0) --- [04:51] doesnt print anything just returns [04:51] doesnt start. [04:51] ok [04:51] new specification [04:51] who has the latest packages, a usb key, and a working hal? :) [04:52] jdub: I do, more or less [04:52] not a key, but a usb storage device [04:52] stick in, copy, pull out [04:52] :P [04:52] then check to see if it was written correctly [04:52] copy something onto it or off of it? [04:52] onto it [05:00] testing [05:02] gzip: mythconverg.mysql.gz: unexpected end of file [05:02] well that's not very nice [05:03] hmm [05:03] even though it's mounted with the sync option [05:03] if I write something to it, and then sync it later, there's activity [05:03] yeah [05:04] that sucks [05:04] not good :| [05:05] sync seemed so promising [05:06] Some Linux file systems dont support -o sync and -o dirsync (the ext2 [05:06] and ext3 file systems do support synchronous updates (a la BSD) when [05:06] mounted with the sync option). [05:06] wanna bet vfat doesn't support it? [05:08] http://seclists.org/lists/linux-kernel/2002/Oct/1256.html [05:08] "You are right. The fatfs just ignore the sync flag." [05:09] ugh [05:09] it's so sweet for read-only though :-) === jdub just reformatted ext2 -> fine ;) [05:11] i'm sure this has worked for me before... [05:12] jdub: Still have the url to that thread keybuk linked? [05:12] no one answered this: http://seclists.org/lists/linux-kernel/2002/Oct/1496.html [05:12] chrisa: it's in his blog === chrisa checks planet [05:14] odd [05:15] there are millions of people using sync with vfat and don't know that it doesn't support it... [05:15] wow, someone said zsh loads faster [05:15] I quit [05:20] jdub: bounty? [05:20] mdz: herbert? [05:20] maybe [05:33] morning guys [06:19] jdub: fyi, joshk says the gpdf uploaded to unstable recently has pdf 1.3 support === doko [doko@dsl-084-057-047-118.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:12] mdz: permission to upload mdadm to fix 1916. [07:12] http://people.ubuntulinux.org/patches/mdadm.274208.diff [07:16] jdub: ^^ [07:18] fabbione: wouldn't it be simpler to source the file? [07:18] is '=' a valid character in an email address? [07:19] not that i am aware of [07:19] but it could be [07:19] i can source the file.. yes [07:20] that's a good catch [07:21] I found some dupes in the RC bug list [07:21] and also I think my highmem problem might be bad hardware [07:22] so a couple fewer bugs now [07:22] mdz: new patch is up [07:22] fabbione: beautiful [07:23] upload when ready [07:23] roger :-) [07:24] this MIB bug, I am not sure if it affects warty [07:25] mdz: right a sec :-) [07:26] ah, I understand [07:26] it's NOTWARTY [07:26] upstream modfied the MIB, and upstream has backed out their own patch [07:27] ok mdadm is up [07:28] i count 35 RC bugs [07:29] yes [07:29] I think it may be time to start using critical for truly RC issues [07:31] yup [07:40] daniels: ping [07:41] mdz: 1878 again [07:43] if the driver is so crappy we should consider a backport [07:43] i really really really don't want to go for vesa [07:44] otherwise we need to blacklist the module both in X and in xresprobe. [07:44] if there is a via card, prompt a warning and ask for the driver to use. [07:45] that means that at a later stage i need ban again both via and vesa from the probin [07:45] probing even [07:50] actually.... [07:50] there is only one fix between the via driver we ship and the X.org one [07:50] that is related accessing the via_bios [07:50] nothing more than that [07:51] + if ((pBIOSInfo->Chipset == VIA_KM400) && !(tmp & VIA_DEVICE_LCD)) { [07:53] that's it [08:11] Treenaks: you around? === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:09] Morning guys! [09:14] hey pitti [09:15] Hi fabbione! === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:fabbione] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 35 RC bugs to go [09:15] fabbione: hmm, on my search list are only 25? [09:16] pitti: add NEEDINFO and PEND [09:16] fabbione: all critical, blocker, and major bugs [09:16] fabbione: ah [09:16] that are hidden from the default search [09:17] fabbione: now I've got 37 :-( [09:19] -2 [09:19] 2 of them are for the websites [09:34] gah [09:34] why are my keybindings broken now? [09:34] I was testing that xkb stuff earlier [09:35] hmm, something with the gnome keyboard preferences [09:35] using setxkbmap cleared it up === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-3-134.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:00] Kamion: are you aware of 1711? [10:01] morning [10:01] hey seb128 [10:01] hello fabbione [10:02] seb128: FYI i can't reproduce 1943 here [10:03] me neither [10:03] seb128: must be mdz faults ;) [10:04] yeah :) [10:04] easily reproduced here [10:04] modprobe -r snd-intel8x0m, log out, log in [10:04] s/8x0m/8x0/ [10:05] only tried with one system, but several people on ubuntu-users and in bugzilla have experienced it [10:06] I've a box without any soundcard and no such problem on it [10:08] mdz: can you reproduce it if you also modprobe -r snd_pcm_oss ? [10:08] Hi seb128 [10:08] because i always removed all modules [10:08] not a portion of them [10:08] I'll check [10:09] i have the same chipset here [10:09] testing live CD right now [10:09] testing that too [10:10] here it just take a bit longer to login [10:10] but it works === fabbione needs to go and get the keys of the house [10:12] later guys === justdave changes the default query [10:15] seb128: 1221; SLOW does make a difference -- does that help you track it down? [10:15] sure [10:15] thom said it didn't [10:15] what's gnomevfs-info result with and without SLOW ? === seb128 kicks thom :p [10:16] with it's the correct, without it's application/x-arc [10:17] ok thanks [10:17] it's been right for me all the way through [10:17] (for gnomevfs-info) [10:18] Mithrandir: I'll ping gnomevfs guys with that, should help [10:18] thanks === doko [doko@dsl-084-057-042-050.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:18] thom: very weird, then. [10:18] yeah :( [10:18] seb128: if I patch the SLOW support of out libgnomevfs alltogether, nautilus DTRT [10:19] yes, gnomevfs a 2 types of detection [10:19] the one used by nautilus (the fast one) has a problem apparently [10:20] no, the other way around. [10:20] the slow one is fucked. [10:20] with it's the correct, without it's application/x-arc [10:20] with SLOW it's correct you said [10:21] MIME type : application/x-arc [10:21] that's with slow. [10:21] ok [10:21] so the slow is broken :) [10:21] fabbione: I don't understand why #1951 is invalid [10:21] MIME type : application/x-cd-image [10:21] that's without. [10:21] ok, thanks [10:21] fabbione: can't it be handled like alternatives? [10:22] seb128: do you know why it starts correct, and then suddenly changes? [10:22] seb128: I think it's something in the xdg* functions, but I couldn't track it down. [10:23] Mithrandir: I'll ping gnomevfs guys (they should have some ideas on this) and let you know [10:23] mdz: you're speaking about .. ? [10:23] seb128: the x-arc/x-cd-image thing [10:24] I commented on the bug [10:24] oh yes [10:24] mdz: it uses fast method first, then slow [10:24] and the slow one is broken. [10:24] when you open a dir it just use the extensions [10:24] when you open a file it does magic mime detection [10:25] that's the slow/fast methods [10:25] apparently the slow one has a problem [10:25] ah [10:25] and the command-line uses fast? [10:25] yes [10:25] I see [10:48] Somebody probably ought to steal http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/config-tools/redhat-config-soundcard.html [10:52] is that using ALSA? === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-8-253.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:57] bob2: yeah [10:57] hm, seems the defaults work for most everyone... [10:58] until you have two soundcards [10:58] mdz: what do you think about #1956? Shall we allow to execute files on removable media? [10:59] mdz: some people might store programs on USB drives, and we cannot prevent that they shoot themselves in the foot anyway === azeem [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:03] what does a "crippled" mouse pointer look like? [11:04] pitti: I think that #1956 is a Hoary problem [11:04] pitti: we disable the autorun feature by default anyway [11:04] mdz: so you want to leave 'noexec' for Warty now? [11:05] pitti: I don't think it matters very much for warty either way [11:05] happy mailman day [11:07] october already? damn. [11:07] mdz: every day is mailman day when you're the moderator for like ten fd.o lists === elmo_ [~james@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:08] elmo_: marnin' [11:08] morning [11:11] mdz: stupid feature request? [11:11] daniels: ? [11:12] mdz: no, because it's not really an alternative [11:12] mdz: is it worth enabling optical out per default on via cards? [11:12] i don't know how many people actually use it; all I know is that I haven't used the analogue output, ever [11:12] daniels: via audio devices, I assume? [11:12] fabbione: but shouldn't it act like one? [11:13] if the default X server is XFree86, and then you install -dbg, and then remove it, it seems logical for it to go back to XFree86 [11:13] mdz: yeah, via82xx [11:13] mdz: not really. you can have other Xservers running. [11:13] mdz: s/running/installed [11:13] fabbione: /bin/true is not an X server :-) [11:14] mdz: i know :-) [11:14] yes, but presumably if you uninstall -dbg, and the only other current owner is -xfree86, falling back to -xfree86 would be sane? [11:15] actually you are not supposed to be running -dbg at all [11:15] if not for debugging reasons [11:16] i don't completely disagree but how would you define XserverS priority in a "/etc/alternatives/" implementation? [11:16] you can't really.. either you ask (and in prerm you might not be able to do so at all) [11:17] or you guess [11:17] the latter is insane [11:17] considering that there might be a bunch of different Xservers [11:17] even not registered ones [11:23] save it and restore it if you want [11:23] but it should not point to /bin/true when there is an X server installed [11:26] mdz: that will be for hoary [11:26] but we will use a differnt approach to this stuff [11:30] seb128: around? [11:30] yes [11:31] seb128: are you sure the mime entry for x-arc is correct? [11:31] which entry ? [11:31] the entry in /usr/share/mime/magic [11:32] no [11:32] but it works on i386 [11:32] it might work by accident on i386 [11:32]