Kamionit's annoying that usb-discover insists on being built with a new discover1-data rather than just using its lists at run-time01:02
mdzit's annoying that usb-discover exists01:02
Kamionoh, blast, I know why that is, it's because it's used on images too small for discover1-data01:02
mdzand discover1-data, for that matter :-)01:02
Kamionwell, hotplug hasn't had data for some of the hardware detection bugs I've fixed today either01:03
mdzfrom what I see, hotplug should obsolete it01:03
mdzKamion: please file bugs for Herbert with the info for anything which is missing01:03
Kamionjoeyh's strongly held opinion is that it's better to have devices in discover which are known to work than devices in hotplug which maybe work and might break01:03
mdzmy strongly held opinion is that the people who wrote the drivers know better which devices work, and they supply the information used by hotplug01:04
KamionI think he does speak from a certain amount of experience here01:04
Kamionthose people get it wrong too, and it can cause a lot of havoc :)01:04
mdzthere is data in discover which is plain wrong, loading modules for devices they don't support01:04
Kamionsometimes it's worse to load the wrong driver than no driver at all01:04
Kamionthere's data in the kernel like that too01:04
mdzwhen I did that big comparison, I found some01:04
Kamionboth discover and the kernel lag behind actual hardware devices to some extent; the extents differ01:05
mdzbut there's no justifiable reason for them to have different data01:06
KamionI guess part of the opinions held by people like joeyh are due to the 2.4 kernel, which is a lot crappier in this respect01:06
mdztrue enough01:06
mdzwhat were the examples that you found today?01:07
KamionNVIDIA USB, I think, I'll have to go back and compare01:07
Kamion    - Add usb/usb-ohci for 10de00e7.01:08
Kamion    - Add usb/ehci-hcd for 10de00e8.01:08
mdzI was under the definite impression that USB stuff was handled based on PCI classes01:08
Kamionthere were some explicit lists in the kernel01:09
Kamionof course maybe I was just believing pci_ids.h ...01:09
mdzmizar:[~]  grep hci /lib/modules/*pcimap01:09
mdzuhci-hcd             0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0x000c0300 0xffffffff 0x001:09
mdzohci-hcd             0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0x000c0310 0xffffffff 0x001:09
mdzehci-hcd             0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0x000c0320 0xffffffff 0x001:09
mdzohci1394             0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0xffffffff 0x000c0010 0xffffffff 0x001:09
mdzthat's all that hotplug has for the HCI modules01:09
KamionI wonder if usb-discover could do that (even if we lose it, Debian still has to keep it in form due to heterogeneous kernels)01:10
Kamions/in form/in some form/01:10
mdzvia discover, or directly?01:11
mdzdepends on whether you have a strong stomach, I guess :-)01:11
mdzneither is very palatable01:11
Kamion*shrug*, it's no worse than lots of hardware detection01:12
mdzin the first case, discover's code is gnarly01:12
mdzI guess directly is not that bad, /proc/bus/pci is pretty sane01:12
KamionI don't see anything that might plausibly be PCI classes in /proc/bus/pci/devices01:12
mdzyou're right01:12
mdzwell that stinks01:13
mdzI wonder where lspci gets it, then01:13
mdz/proc/bus/pci/NN maybe01:13
Kamiondoes it?01:13
mdzah, it uses sysfs01:13
Kamionoh, it has prog-if01:13
Kamionis that what you mean?01:13
mdzwhich looks the same as pci/NN01:13
Kamion0001:01:1b.1 USB Controller: NEC Corporation USB (rev 43) (prog-if 10 [OHCI] )01:14
Kamionit appears to peek PCI configuration registers for that01:14
Kamion      c = get_conf_byte(d, PCI_CLASS_PROG);01:14
mdzmizar:[/tmp/usb-discover-0.22]  grep -w 0x0c0300 /sys/bus/pci/devices/*/class01:15
mdzsilly IRC eating my output01:15
Kamionmaybe you could get it from /proc/bus/pci/*/* if you tried hard enough01:15
mdzmizar:[/tmp/usb-discover-0.22]  grep -w 0x0c0300 /sys/bus/pci/devices/*/class | sed -e 's/^/ /'01:15
mdz /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:07.2/class:0x0c030001:15
mdz /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:07.3/class:0x0c030001:15
Kamionneeds to be portable to 2.4 if I'm going to push it into Debian01:15
mdzthat's all UHCI controllers01:15
Kamionalthough I suppose it could fall back to discover on 2.401:16
seb128mdz: pong01:16
Kamionyes, that seems a nice approach01:16
mdzyeah, you should be able to add about 10 lines of shell and handle all USB controllers on 2.601:16
Kamionok, will try to do that01:17
mdzseb128: were you able to reproduce #1943?01:17
=== Kamion dumps it in ~/TODO
seb128mdz: no, tried on my 2 boxes01:17
seb128on without any soundcard, the other with module removed01:17
seb128no problem01:17
mdzseb128: do you have some time to work with me on it?01:17
mdzit is causing problems for many users01:18
Kamionmdz: advance approval to upload that when I implement it? :)01:18
mdzKamion: yes01:18
seb128I've no real idea on the problem, I've never looked on the sound part ...01:18
seb128I can make test if you have some idea01:18
mdzseb128: I can set you up with shell access on a system which exhibits the problem01:19
mdzor I can try some things01:19
seb128the problem is that shel access to debug GNOME sessions ...01:19
mdzI'll try some strace01:19
seb128do you have something in ~/.xsession-errors01:20
seb128<T-Bone> looking at .xsession-errors showed "/tmp/esd/socket existing, esd already running, exiting"01:21
seb128<T-Bone> or something like that01:21
seb128<T-Bone> i think _this_ is the problem01:21
seb128this was some hours ago01:21
seb128do you have something in /tmp/esd ?01:21
mdzno /tmp/esd01:23
mdzin ~/.xsession I have:01:24
mdz/dev/dsp: No such file or directory01:24
mdz/dev/dsp: No such file or directory01:24
mdz/dev/dsp: No such file or directory01:24
mdz/dev/dsp: No such file or directory01:24
mdz/dev/dsp: No such file or directory01:24
mdz/dev/dsp: No such file or directory01:24
mdz** (gnome-session:9507): WARNING **: Esound failed to start.01:24
mdzthe /dev/dsp error is reapeated a few hundred times01:25
Kamionmdz: yup, ten lines. :-)01:27
mdzseb128: you want strace?01:27
seb128could try that yes01:27
mdzattached to the bug01:28
seb128ok, thanks01:30
mdzit is hard to tell where it is blocking01:30
mdzgnome-session itself forks esd01:32
mdzmany times01:32
Kamionmdz: #1932 should be dead with the DMA changes, shouldn't it?01:33
mdzKamion: yes, if that's a bad DMA symptom01:33
sabdflhey guys01:33
mdzlinux-source- ( warty; urgency=low01:34
mdz  * Enabled IDEDMA_ONLYDISK.01:34
Kamionmdz: think so ... the new kernels won't make it onto the CD until tomorrow sometime, so I'll wait until there's something for him to test and then ask for a retest01:34
jdubsabdfl: pipermail's not working with external (lurker) turned on; disabling now and doing it another way.01:34
Kamionwill probably do a manual CD build sometime tomorrow, I've uploaded enough stuff today that I want to test01:35
seb128jdub: do we want to remove the "launch terminal" entry from the nautilus' menu on the desktop ?01:35
jdubseb128: what for? :)01:36
sabdfljdub: considered using a cron job to get lurker to parse the mbox files hourly?01:36
seb128jdub: #177701:36
jdubsabdfl: won't be dynamic enough01:37
jdubsabdfl: i'm just going to deliver mail to it01:37
sabdfljdub: mailman has an explicit option to do both mbox and pipermail01:38
jdubsabdfl: which is not working!01:38
jdubmbox + pipermail is01:38
jdubmbox + pipermail + external is not01:38
jdubseb128: waste of patch, dude01:39
seb128jdub: ?01:39
sabdflany particular reason to keep the pipermail archive?01:39
jdubseb128: #177701:39
seb128jdub: "waste" ?01:39
jdubsabdfl: because currently, that's what people are looking at, and for some people, it's easier to read01:39
seb128jdub: it has been provided by vuntz .. people are free to provide patches afaik01:39
sabdflyes, some views are cleaner in pipermail01:40
jdubseb128: we don't have to accept every patch :)01:40
seb128jdub: that's why I'm asking :) But I don't get the "waste" part ...01:40
jdubseb128: every patch we add is a cost01:40
seb128we use it or not, but that's not wasted01:40
seb128why ?01:40
jdubseb128: we shouldn't throw on frivolous patches just because they exist01:40
jdubseb128: because we have to maintain them, and because they set precedent01:41
seb128ok, so the answer is no :)01:41
seb128let's see if upstream accept it01:41
jduber, 'yes', the answer is 'no' ;)01:41
seb128jdub: do you know if some other distro has sound events turned to on by default with GNOME ?01:44
jdubseb128: afaik, none do.01:45
jdubseb128: given that there's minimal support for it upstream. :-)01:45
seb128yes, I was fearing that01:45
jduband, um, they're just annoying ;)01:45
seb128we have a severe issue for people who don't have a working soundcard01:45
seb128session hangs01:45
seb128we got a bunch of dup of the problem01:46
seb128but no problem here ... dunno the condition to get it01:46
seb128(#1943 if you want the bug number)01:47
jdubmmm, been watching the bug; no useful input as yet.01:48
seb128yes, but several dup on the list01:51
mdzhald is segfaulting01:53
=== minghua [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzseb128: does the strace reveal anything to you?01:59
seb128no ...02:00
seb128I'm trying to get details on google, perhaps somebody else got the same problem02:00
seb128but most of the people avoid sound events/esd in GNOME02:00
jdublots of people use esd, but veeeery few use sound events02:03
sabdfljdub: prognosis for sound improvement in gnome 2.10?02:04
jdubsabdfl: well, i'm going to champion the DEATH OF ESOUND02:05
jdubsabdfl: but for sound events, no one cares. it's horrible stuff, needs restructuring if anyone cares about it at all.02:06
sabdflfluendo guys not interested?02:06
jdubinterface bleeps beyond errors are just annoying02:06
jdubno, they care about multimedia02:06
jdubi would just recommend avoiding the entire sound event mess for now, and if we think it has any serious benefit for users, help to restructure it02:07
mdzso basically, you guys (jdub and seb128) are saying that we should not enable sound events by default in Warty?02:10
jdubmdz: do you think sox is evil?02:11
sabdflfine by me02:11
mdzjdub: moderately02:11
sabdflcan we play a startup sound using aplay?02:11
mdzusing aplay would be >> sox02:12
jdubsabdfl: how about a gdm "you can login now" sound?02:12
jdubmdz: ok02:12
mdzjdub: don't we already ring the system bell for that?02:12
sabdflyou mean, other than "BEEP"02:12
jdubyes, but we can replace it with a sound02:12
=== mdz lunches
jdub(i would like to)02:12
sabdflseems perfect to me02:12
=== minghua [~minghua@danube.mems.rice.edu] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
sabdflmdz: there is currently no warty-security universe02:15
sabdfli think it needs to be there02:16
sabdflwe'll put stuff in it that's easy and obvious or provided by the comunity02:16
sabdflnot sure if that's an oversight or just not done yet02:16
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mdzsabdfl: elmo was very much against it02:46
mdzthere is a big problem with testing-security in Debian02:47
sabdfli think it's criminal not to have SOMETHING02:47
mdzpeople see it in the archive and take it as a declaration of support02:47
sabdflthe apt.sources.list stuff is as explicit as we want it to be02:47
mdzthen they send us hate mail when they don't get any updates from it :-)02:47
sabdflthe reality is there could be a trivial kde fix or something, tiny patch, as we *can't* get it to people02:47
mdzwe can always toss it into universe itself02:48
mdznot that I'm entirely unsold on universe-security02:48
sabdflby that argument, we could toss warty security updates into warty02:48
sabdflwe don't, for very good reason02:48
sabdfli don't think being afraid of a misinterpretation of our level of support for universe is a good reason02:48
sabdflit will happen in the first week, i'm certain of it02:49
sabdflthe moment we release:02:49
sabdfljoehacker: where's package foo?02:49
sabdflblogghacker: it's in universe, doooood02:50
sabdfljoehacker: but that's version, 1.2.1 and there is a security fix in 1.2.2!02:50
sabdflit's going to happen the day we release02:50
sabdflanyhoo... i'm retiring from the battlefield02:50
mdzthe reason we don't do that for warty is because we provide a certain level of quality and stability, which we don't for universe02:50
sabdflfor tonight :-)02:50
sabdflsee you all anon02:51
mdzit's already happening02:51
mdzthere are already known vulnerabilities in universe that we are not fixing02:51
sabdflthat's fine while we are during freeze02:51
sabdflbut i think we could quickly get a community hit squad together to approve or veto uploads to universe for security fixes02:51
sabdflmight be agood proving ground for new talent02:51
sabdflit's not something we need to worry about or invest time in (we explicitly say we won't)02:52
sabdflbut if the community process can carry the workload we should support it02:52
sabdfland for hoary, universe will see a lot more work done by other people02:52
sabdfland hence universe will be higher quality02:52
Kamionif packages in universe are getting significant work done by externals, the plan is to consider them for supported, isn't it?02:53
mdzwe currently don't even have infrastructure for warty main security updates02:53
mdzI think you'll agree that gets priority :-)02:53
mdzKamion: if it makes it past the comfort threshold, yes02:54
sivangmdz : universe sec bugs which are not getting fixed due to lake of priority for warty, or for being officially unsupported?02:56
mdzsivang: both02:56
sivangmdz : what about a sync up policy from debian?02:57
mdzsivang: what do you mean?02:57
sabdflKamion: yes, but even if they remain in universe for a few releases, it's better for us if universe is higher quality02:57
sivangmdz : as I remeber the report I made for 2004, most of the issues could be solved by fetching the newer source packages from sid.02:57
Kamionmdz: so, I'm seeing firmware loading problems with this prism54 card I've got here02:57
Kamionsabdfl: sure02:57
sabdfland a well managed community process could be great for the community as well as for us02:57
sabdflwe will need to empower the right groups in teams and individuals02:58
sivanghowever that could be a very small subset of known and unknown sec bugs currently....02:58
Kamionmdz: having updated all the hotplug scripts to current versions etc., it seems to try loading the firmware, then it immediately issues a firmware remove action, then it tries to soft-reset the card and fails miserably, then it loops02:58
mdzKamion: neat02:58
sabdflanyhoo... i'm going to crash for the night... see you all tomorrow02:58
mdzKamion: does it work correctly with the same hardware on an installed system?02:58
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel []
Kamionhaven't tried it outside d-i yet though02:58
Kamionthat machine is sacrificial weirdo corner-case testing box, so it isn't in an installed system often :)02:59
mdzsivang: when we're not in a deep freeze, we'll be more liberal about accepting new versions from Debian for universe02:59
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 32 RC bugs to go
mdzKamion: perhaps you're running into the kill-switch-loop-of-death bug03:00
mdzwhich is fixed in the current kernel?03:00
sivangmdz : ok. I was thinking that security related issues can have an exempt from the freeze. but it do sounds more logic to do it for main, not universe.03:01
Kamiondon't see a kill-switch flag in /sys03:02
=== sivang is rebooting, testing Kamion
sivangKamion's special made iso for parted issue03:03
Kamionmdz: ok, seems to break in a real system too, I guess it isn't a d-i thing, I'll file a bug03:19
mdzKamion: you're running with the 0.10 version of the driver?03:19
Kamionmdz: this is prism54, not ipw220003:20
mdzKamion: ohh03:20
mdzI didn't read that bit at all03:21
Kamionhence, no kill switch :-)03:21
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sivangKamion : still has that C/H/S message. where can I track it on the logs to see what's really spitted there?03:41
sladenis tht implying that it's /not/ actually working with fat*03:46
sivangi have only one fat32 partiton there, and grub. the linux parts on on /dev/hdb interestingly.03:48
sivang/dev/hda being the boot device03:48
sivangif only i could snapshot that scree see the details of this message..03:50
sivanganyways, i'm off to sleep.03:52
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mdzjdub: ping?08:44
jdubcan't load ipw220009:31
jdubFATAL: Error inserting ipw2200 (/lib/modules/ Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)09:31
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jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_wx_set_encode09:31
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_wx_set_encode09:31
jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_wx_get_encode09:31
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_wx_get_encode09:31
jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_wx_get_scan09:31
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_wx_get_scan09:31
jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_alloc09:32
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_alloc09:32
jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_rx09:32
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_rx09:32
jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_rx_mgt09:32
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_rx_mgt09:32
jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_skb_to_txb09:32
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_skb_to_txb09:32
jdubipw2200: disagrees about version of symbol ieee80211_free09:32
jdubipw2200: Unknown symbol ieee80211_free09:32
danielsmdz: hm09:32
danielsmdz: would solving #1981 be out of the question by creating a small wrapper that modprobes ppp_generic that's suid root, and only executable by dip?09:33
mdzjdub: I didn't even consider the possibility that the user was raising the firefox update issue without noticing that it wasn't enabled09:53
mdzdaniels: I think pppd itself should just modprobe ppp_generic09:53
mdzjdub: did you perhaps install the driver from source at some point?09:54
mdzjdub: it works like a charm for me09:54
jdubmdz: nup09:54
jdubthis is after a kernel update09:54
jdubhold on09:54
jdubi don't think i've rebooted09:54
jdubi'll try that ;)09:54
danielsmdz: ok09:55
mdzjdub: how would I verify that the firefox thing is disabled?09:55
mdzjdub: if I go into preferences->advanced, the "periodically check for updates" bits are checked09:55
mdzand clicking "check now" produces a complaint about the critical update09:55
mdzthere's an 'install now' button, which obviously doesn't work09:56
mdzso it seems to be enabled09:56
jdubahr, bong10:03
jdubmdz: if periodically check for updates is checked (for the browser, not extensions), then we've messed that up in our update10:03
jdubok, so it was a kernel/restricted sync issue10:04
jdubworking fine now10:04
mdzjdub: ipw2200 isn't in restricted10:13
mdzjdub: so I'm having a hell of a time trying to track down #194310:13
jduboh yeah, good point10:13
jdubmdz: sounds?10:13
mdzI've tried disabling sound events and esd and stuff, and it's all very weird10:14
jdubeven after disabling them, it's still happening?10:14
mdzno, it's more like I disable stuff, and then it goes away, and then I re-enable, and re-load the sound driver, but I still don't get sounds10:15
mdzmaybe I do not fully grok gconf10:15
mdzright now I can't reproduce the problem, but I can't get it to play sounds either, so I think my settings are stuck10:15
mdzesd is running, but sound events are clearly off10:16
mdzeven though gconf tells me they are enabled10:16
mdzmdz@potpal:~ $ !gconf10:17
mdzgconftool-2 -R / | grep sound_events10:17
mdz    sound_events = true10:17
jdubwhat does the sounds dialogue say?10:17
mdzbut the box is unchecked if I go into sound preferences10:17
mdz(just looked)10:17
mdzwtf is that10:17
mdzchecked the box, sounds are back10:17
=== jdub goes to mull this over with a malibu+coke... ;)
mdzgnome-settings-daemon is opening the ALSA control device10:21
mdzwhy is it doing that?10:21
mdz16733 open("/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.8/libgstalsa.so", O_RDONLY) = 3510:22
mdzjdub: gnome-settings-daemon is into all sorts of things10:22
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jdubmdz: it handles the keyboard shortcuts for the mixer10:23
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jdubthat's a lot of the reason why it does heaps10:24
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jdubthat pmu on ppc thing is g-s-d too -> backlight control10:24
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mdzjdub: bingo10:29
mdzjdub: removing gstreamer0.8-alsa suppresses the problem10:30
mdzso it's something messing with ALSA, and not esd or anything going through it10:30
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danielsmdz: ok to upload http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/ppp/ppp_2.4.2+20040428-2ubuntu5-to-ubuntu6.diff ?10:50
danielsmdz: works here when invoking pon as non-root, with no ppp modules loaded10:51
danielsactually, holdasec.10:51
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danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~% ls -l /dev/ppp10:53
danielsls: /dev/ppp: No such file or directory10:53
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~% pon10:53
dokogood morning10:53
danielsdoko: 'morning10:53
Mithrandirhi doko10:56
dokoMithrandir: see #1992, I'm wondering, how you did build OOo for amd6410:59
mdzdaniels: it would be nice if it waited for /dev/ppp to appear rather than sleep(5)11:00
mdzespecially when the module is already loaded and the device already exists11:00
danielsthe sleep (5) was there for a reason11:00
mdzdoko: look at the source package; it uses the i386 binaries11:01
danielsif you wait for /dev/ppp to appear, you could just spin infinitely11:01
danielsand that codepath only gets hit if /dev/ppp doesn't exist already11:01
danielsit's not a five-second hit on subsequent connects11:01
mdzwaiting for /dev/ppp does not imply waiting indefinitely11:01
mdzbut if it doesn't hit that code if /dev/ppp already exists, looks good to me11:02
danielsi can wait for /dev/ppp if you like, but seems like additional complexity to be including11:02
dokomdz: ahh. ok the precompiled i386 binaries ...11:02
Mithrandirdoko: what mdz says.11:02
mdzdoko: if you want to track a bug for Ubuntu where there is already a Debian bug open, ask me to import the bug rather than opening a new one11:03
Mithrandirdoko: make sure you don't end up conflicting with ia32-libs-ooo11:03
dokomdz: there was only one for gcc-3.4, not gcc-3.3.11:04
mdzdoko: ?11:04
dokomdz: the problem exists both in gcc-3.3 and gcc-3.4. Debian gcc-3.3 is not biarch, therefore there is no bug report in the Debian BTS.11:05
danielsmdz: btw, if you want to make the owner/default assignee for ppp/pppoe/et al myself, I'm fine with that11:06
danielsas opposed to the de facto owner/default assignee ;)11:06
dokoMithrandir: will look. these are development files only, according to the name 'ia32-libs-ooo', there should be no -dev files in the package.11:06
mdzdoko: but when you filed the bug in bugzilla, you said it was the same as Debian bug #27375511:07
mdzbut now that I have imported that bug, it does not seem to be the same at all11:07
dokothe same for gcc-3.4. in the past you told me to use the BTS to track changes to packages proposed for upload to warty. that's what the bug was for. confused ...11:08
mdzdoko: in the bug description, you wrote "this is Debian #273755".  what did you mean by that?11:10
MithrandirI just love people who write C++ but just write C.  And I love people who cast pointers to ints.11:10
mdzDebian #273755 is a fortran bug11:10
dokoahh, ok I see ... I cited the wrong report ... #274362 is the amd64 one ...11:11
dokoyes, and #273755 should be address as well. wrong code regression from g77-3.3 to g77-3.411:12
mdznot critical for Warty11:13
dokowhich one, or both?11:13
mdzthe amd64 issue is debatable; the only thing we build with biarch is grub, which isn't C++11:15
Mithrandirmdz: I think the ooo-amd64 bug might be due to ia32-libs-ooo not shipping myspell. :)11:15
mdzbut since it seems very simple to fix, it's OK with me11:15
mdzMithrandir: ahh11:15
Mithrandirmdz: but it looks like ooo does some weird stuff:11:16
Mithrandiropen("/usr/lib/libmyspell.so.3", O_RDONLY) = 2211:16
Mithrandir/usr/lib/libmyspell.so.3:   symbolic link to `libmyspell.so.3.1'11:16
Mithrandir/usr/lib/libmyspell.so.3.1: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), stripped11:16
Mithrandirmaybe it's ldopen, I don't know.11:17
MithrandirI'll build a 32 bit myspell and test11:17
=== Mithrandir wants multiarch
=== mdz wants 64-bit to work
Mithrandir64 bit works.. mostly. ;)11:19
Mithrandirdoko: do we include drdsl anywhere, or how do I get my Fritz!DSL card working?11:21
dokoMithrandir: what is it good for? I have a Fritz!DSL as well (the combined one with ISDN), and I don't use it at all.11:23
Mithrandirdoko: I don't remember, it might be useless.11:23
=== Mithrandir goes to hunt about in arcane scripts
Mithrandirdoko: how do you set the vpi and vci?11:25
dokohave /etc/drdsl/adsl.conf, but I don't call drdsl ... hmm11:28
Mithrandirok, so it might be enough just to have the file11:28
dokocontroller 211:29
dokoprotocol adslpppoe11:29
dokovpi 811:29
dokovci 3511:29
jdubmdz: whoa, wacky11:42
jdubmdz: can we not install gstreamer0.8-alsa by default?11:43
mdzjdub: this is all so fucked, I am not sure that test was at all valid11:43
mdzmy machine is fucking crashing now11:43
mdzand I am no closer to finding the problem11:43
jdubcapplets is the only thing that depends on it11:44
jdubdue to gstreamer-properties11:44
jdubhrm, no11:45
mdzI can't reproduce the bug when I'm stracing stuff11:45
jdubdue to gnome-settings-daemon11:45
jdubheh, i hate those ones11:45
mdza lot of people are installing ubuntu and finding it completely useless because of this bug11:49
mdzwhatever it is11:49
mdzjdub: are you able to reproduce it?11:52
mdzdo this: lsmod | grep '^snd' | awk '{ print $1 }' | xargs -n1 sudo rmmod11:52
mdzand then try to login in gdm11:52
mdzI need to know that I'm not crazy11:52
mdzthere are two gnome-settings-daemon processes12:00
mdzthey appear to have a pipe open between them12:00
mdzone is writing to the pipe, and the other is waiting for the one writing to the pipe12:00
mdzso they're basically deadlocked12:00
mdzI can't stare at this any more tonight. I've put everything useful that I have so far into bugzilla12:10
mdzsomeone else please look at it when you have a chance12:10
Mithrandirwhich bug is this?12:13
mdzMithrandir: #194312:23
mdzthe big red one :-)12:23
Mithrandirmdz/jdub: permission to upload new ia32-libs-openoffice.org with libmyspell3 included.12:24
Mithrandirfixes 198612:24
mdzMithrandir: yes12:24
Mithrandirthanks. :)12:24
daniels$(srcdir)/configure: $(srcdir)/configure.in $(ACLOCAL_M4) $(CONFIGURE_DEPENDENCIES)12:25
daniels        cd $(srcdir) && $(AUTOCONF)12:25
=== daniels uploads another g-s-m and hopes for the best.
danielsif it lasted twenty invocations of debuild, some with -S, some without, it should be OK12:35
=== daniels eats his hat.
=== doko wants a photo
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 35 RC bugs to go
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Mithrandir] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 34 RC bugs to go
danielsg-s-m built!!01:21
tsengwho what?01:22
dokowhere can I find the query for the (currently 34) warty RC bugs?01:29
danielsdoko: there are < 34 bugs with a Warty target milestone, so I assume it's just blocker/critical/major bugs01:37
mdzeverything >= major01:45
dokohmm, I get 32 when selecting all statuses, but a lot of them are set to resolved.01:48
mdzseverity: blocker, critical, major + product: ubuntu + status: unconfirmed,new,assigned,reopened,needinfo,pendingupload01:51
mdz= 3401:51
dokois it possible to save queries like this one for everyone?01:52
mdzI'm not sure, ask justdave01:56
dokoahh, I did have Target=WartyWarthogFinal set as well01:57
dokomdz: ok to upload analog (#1924), missing mkdir in postinst?01:59
mdzdoko: yes02:00
dokomdz: ok to upload samba (#1761), server string without version number?02:00
mdzdoko: yes02:00
sladenkeybuk: does anyone have the Canonical Logo as a vector format?02:02
mdzsladen: there is an SVG on the wiki02:04
mdzah, never mind, you said canonical, not ubuntu02:04
mdzI only have a bitmap of that one02:05
sladenwhile we're on that subject, I did a cleaned up bitmap for the website that doesn't look so grotty02:07
sladen(contrast with the old  logo.jpg)02:07
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiHi guys!02:16
=== seb128 [~seb128@AAubervilliers-105-1-2-202.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dokomithrandir: for amd64 we have lib32gcc1, lib32stdc++5, lib32stdc++6 in universe. why are they included/built in ia32-libs-openoffice.org as well?02:39
pittiHi seb128!03:44
pittiI added some comments to 03:44
pittiseb128: I added some comments to #1919. Are you fine with the patch?03:44
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dokomdz, mithrandir: ping about #1996?04:01
pittiHi sabdfl04:27
sabdflhey pitti04:27
sabdflwhat no hal-of-the-day? :->04:28
pittisabdfl: no, this time it's gst-plugins :-)04:28
pittisabdfl: but don't be afraid that there won't be further version, yesterday I got two new bugs :-/04:28
sabdflany reason my sound has died recently? can't get a cd to play04:28
pittisabdfl: but I have to care for a Debian applicant today, I dragged that for too long04:29
sabdflbut haven't had time to find the bug04:29
pittisabdfl: do you just hear no sound, or does it stop with an error message?04:29
sabdflcd seems to be spinning but no sound04:29
pittisabdfl: so controlling the cd works? you can verify with headphones on the drive04:30
sabdflaplay works fine i think04:30
sabdflyes it works on a headset from the drive directly04:31
pittisabdfl: and it worked with an earlier version?04:31
sabdfli never tried the cd layer applet04:32
sabdfldo i need to configure gst?04:32
pittisabdfl: actually this should not be necessary04:33
pittisabdfl: when running the CD-ROM as audio player, you just need a cable which connects the CD with the sound card04:33
sabdflhmm... maybe that's not setup04:33
pittisabdfl: another approach is to read out the audio cd digitally and output it through the normal /dev/dsp04:33
sabdfli'll play around04:34
pittisabdfl: a nice low-level tool is 'cdplay' from the cdtool package.04:34
pittisabdfl: if that spins up the cd, but you don't hear sound (although the mixer is up), then the cable is probably missing04:34
sabdflhmm... there seems to be a problem with rhythmbox too04:35
sabdfldouble clicking a song gives me a dialog error:04:35
sabdfl"There is no element present to handle the stream's mime type application/x-id3"04:35
Kamionany opinions on where to put the new live CD image?04:38
Kamionreleases/warty/preview/ seems a bit inappropriate since it isn't synced with the preview release04:39
Kamionactually never mind, I'll send mail04:41
pittisabdfl: I also found this. gstreamer cannot process some of my mp3s, so I just converted them to ogg :-/04:47
sabdflpitti: it's not just some of my mp3's, and these used to work just fine04:49
sabdflhmm... i wonder if i removed some of the universe stuff...04:49
sabdflKamion: response coming on the mail front. we need a much simpler cdimage rsync export for mirrors04:50
sabdflwe can have a bigger tree of cd images in the full archive, but we'll get MANY more mirrors of just the cdimages04:50
sabdfland we only want to show them the latest stuff, so there is no confusion about which piece they should be downloading04:51
dokosabdfl: will we have different background images as you presented in Oxford?04:53
Kamionsabdfl: hence my mail way back before preview anticipating this problem :-)04:53
Kamion(on sounder@)04:53
sabdflKamion: ok :-)04:54
sabdfldoko: yes, we are trying to figure out the best strategy on that front at the moment04:54
sabdflhave the images, just figuring out how to present them, defaults, calendar etc04:54
dokocould we scan the first name of the user account we ask and then select the "appropriate" theme (m/f) for the user?04:55
Kamionhow do you even work out the first name? :-)04:59
sabdfldoko, Kamion, we could record them saying "Ubuntu" then do a voiceprint analysis to determine gender :-)05:00
dokothe first string looked up in a table of names. that's not much work. If it's ambigious or not found, fall back to a "safe" default ;-)05:01
Kamiondoko: that's wrong for a big chunk of the world05:05
sabdfldefault will be very conservative, no image at all05:05
Kamionlots of countries use given-name-last05:05
dokokamion: but at this point we already know the country05:05
Kamionsabdfl: aargh, I *wish* the cdimage layout had been stabilized before preview, I was really trying to have all the rearrangements finished by then; now we're going to annoy the mirrors we already have05:06
Kamionand break advertised URLs, etc.05:06
KamionI also think it's a bad idea to remove previously available images, as the /preview-release/ -> warty symlink implies you want to do05:07
Kamionthey need to be archived somewhere with a consistent URL05:07
dokokamion: during installation on pbook, how do I switch the console (german keyboard)?05:08
Kamiondoko: loadkeys, I think05:09
Kamionif it's available; kbd-chooser does it in C05:09
Mithrandirdoko: hysterical raisins, I think; do they work with ooo?05:29
dokoMithrandir: ???05:30
Mithrandirdoko: why ia32-libs-ooo contains libstdc++505:31
dokoahh, yes. I never had the chance to run oo on amd64, so I don't know ...05:31
dokomithrandir: could you check it out? replacing the libgcc.1 and libstdc++5 from ia32-libs-ooo with these from the lib32* packages?05:34
Mithrandirdoko: yeah, I'll try05:38
sladendoko: remember, it's not just male/female---you have to take sexual preferences into account too!  ;-)05:40
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Mithrandirhmm, a feature we might want to add, possibly is a question when booting up after an unexpected shutdown, a question on why, with possible reference to problem ticket id and so on.  shamelessly stolen from XP07:24
sabdflKamion: i think we can keep the existing structure, and add another rsync module which has the minimalist stuff for smaller mirrors07:29
sabdflKamion: also, i think we should name the iso's in a preview dir "preview-warty-i386.iso" so there is no confusion, in future07:30
Kamionsabdfl: I think I disagree there, I'd prefer to keep the image names identical and disambiguate by directory name07:46
Kamionmakes it easier to have rsync scripts and stuff07:46
sabdflKamion: for that "simple cdimage" tree, i'd like to have one, and only one, warty dir.07:47
sabdflfor the full tree in the full archive, fine, as you wish07:47
sabdflbut the simple version should have a single warty dir07:47
Kamionmaybe we'll just have to copy to the simple tree, then07:47
sabdflKamion: that's fine too07:48
Kamionlet me sleep on this, I want to think out the consequences :)07:48
sabdfli'm trying to greatly reduce the amount of knowledge required to find the right iso, know what you're getting, and get it07:48
Kamionmdz: uploading ddetect to fix a build problem in the /sbin/hotplug addition (whoops)07:53
Kamionsabdfl: the things I'm balancing against that are our need to be able to expect users to know which image they've got, and the need to make it reasonably easy for users to track along with us as we finish off warty without having to change mirroring scripts too often; they aren't contradictory concerns, but we've managed to balance everything thus far and I just want to be careful in ensuring that we continue to do s07:57
sabdflKamion: understood, what's been done so far is fine, i'm just trying to tweak for a new market of nuuubies07:58
=== fabbione is back to a world made of bits :P
fabbioneseconf operation day at home a complete success ;)08:11
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dokofabbione: just reinstalled warty on a pbook 12" with german keyboard. there are some other people reporting problems with non-US keyboards. basically I can't type in @, ?, [ ]  { } \ |08:16
fabbionedoko: yes i know08:17
fabbionewe miss a file08:17
fabbioneit has been committed to SVN today08:17
fabbionedoko: i have the changes already merged in my tree, but i need to collect a bunch of fixes before uploading X08:18
dokook thanks.08:19
fabbioneit's the us_intl layout definition file missinf08:19
fabbionemissing even08:19
fabbioneit is built but Denis forgot just the detail to install it ;)08:19
fabbioneand both Branden and I didn't notice until yesterday that someone reported the problem08:20
fabbioneTreenaks: you rock! thanks a lot for all the tests!08:21
pittifabbione: you mean that external screen on ppc will actually work in the forseeable future? Great!08:27
fabbionepitti: yes :-)08:28
pittifabbione: Great! Maybe it works until December, then I can implement that beer offer in Spain :-)08:29
fabbionepitti: if we had more time to backport some X.org drivers it would be working now08:33
fabbioneunfortunatly ATI driver has been updated too much and difficult to port08:33
pittifabbione: well, the freeze... But till then I still have a small and uncared-of MacOS X installation :-)08:33
pittifabbione: presenting JPGs and PDFs on a beamer is actually the only reason why I still have it08:34
pittiGuys, dancing tonight. Have a nice evening!09:09
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sivangjdub : around?09:25
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