[12:00] <tseng> debbootstrap warty
[12:00] <overflow> any of you are having problems with ubuntu and sound?
[12:01] <SuperLag> tseng: yo
[12:01] <pyramid> overflow, i don't have ubuntu but have you configured alsa
[12:01] <LinuxJones> overflow, nope
[12:01] <Phr0stByte> I tried to upgrade a bunch of packages - system wont take the root passwoed anymore - how can I fix that?
[12:01] <jamesdorn> subterrific: same exact thing with a brand new powerbook out of the box
[12:01] <overflow> pyramid: yes I have it
[12:01] <jamesdorn> Ether DU is messed up, or the iso's have problems
[12:02] <subterrific> jamesdorn: the iso has no problem, thousands of people are burning it fine
[12:02] <jamesdorn> I have no way of burning it... unless I burn it with a PC
[12:02] <pyramid> overflow, ok if alsa is configured have you opened with alsamixer
[12:02] <jamesdorn> subterrific: cant be... why me there?
[12:02] <jamesdorn> then
[12:02] <jamesdorn> subterrific: doesnt make sense
[12:02] <jamesdorn> cant just be me
[12:02] <subterrific> jamesdorn: because you have a mac :)
[12:02] <jamesdorn> subterrific: ok, nevermind
[12:02] <overflow> pyramid: xmms get freeze when I start to play
[12:03] <jamesdorn> subterrific: thought you ment there was a problem with my mac, and that other mac users were burnining it fine
[12:03] <jamesdorn> subterrific: seems like there would be other people reporting the problem
[12:03] <subterrific> jamesdorn: other mac users are burning it fine. me for example
[12:03] <jamesdorn> subterrific: and the Ubuntu team would have posted a notice
[12:03] <pyramid> overflow...never mind xmms...first use alsamixer to open stuff...and try to cat a file to your audio device
[12:03] <jamesdorn> subterrific: Doesnt make sense
[12:03] <jamesdorn> subterrific: 4 diffrent macs, one brand new out of the box
[12:03] <jamesdorn> md5'
[12:03] <jamesdorn> match
[12:04] <jamesdorn> I am not an idiot... promise
[12:04] <subterrific> jamesdorn: have you run software update?
[12:04] <jamesdorn> i am running it on this one.. but there are only security fixes
[12:05] <jamesdorn> ill let this finish.. then ill report back
[12:05] <overflow> pyramid: nothing
[12:06] <pyramid> overflow, ok...try it again as root..just in case the device is not set right
[12:06] <tseng> does debian-installer set up a serial console by chance?
[12:07] <TdC_VgA> ok i got NDIS to install... how can i tell where the actual module went?
[12:07] <pyramid> overflow, what device are you using for audio output
[12:07] <tseng> does it matter where the module went?
[12:07] <tseng> if its installed properly, modprobe ndiswrapper will do the trick
[12:07] <tseng> possibly after depmod -ae
[12:08] <TdC_VgA> i have to copy the driver files to the same dir as the module dont i?
[12:09] <SuperLag> overflow: like this? ---> just install a base Debian install, then change source.list to the one for the Ubuntu mirrors and run with that? or is it more complicated?
[12:11] <Nomad> Is apt-get limited with UNBUNTU?
[12:11] <hiro> still having probs with USB audio...how do i get this to work on my powerbook?
[12:11] <pyramid> hiro, i have never heard of USB audio. that is new to me
[12:11] <plovs> tseng, add console=device if you have a keyboatd and graphiccard for console
[12:12] <tseng> plovs: i have a headless box i want to install, i thought i might be able to do it on my laptop
[12:12] <hiro> what i am using is a Griffin iMic
[12:13] <hiro> ALSA supports USB audio, but it doesn't seem to detect my device properly
[12:13] <occy> ugh, damnit, I just filled out a report in bugzilla and it ate it. 
[12:13] <occy> :(
[12:13] <occy> craptacular
[12:13] <hiro> the kernel detects it, but ALSA doesn't
[12:13] <pyramid> hiro, the only thing i know is that if you buy Apple hardware you might as well buy Apple software and OS....or else don't buy any of it.
[12:14] <soleblaze> hey, can you install Ubuntu as a diskless? (runnning root/file systems from nfs)
[12:14] <plovs> tseng, should be possible
[12:14] <hiro> pyramid: not really...i am running OSX for most stuff, but want to do linux development too
[12:14] <plovs> tseng, debian or ubuntu
[12:14] <pyramid> hiro, well if you have paid for OS X..i believe Apple already supports linux with fink
[12:15] <tseng> plovs: just realized the bigger problem. dont have a serial cable around =/
[12:15] <pyramid> hiro, at least that is what i heard.
[12:15] <hiro> pyramid, fink only helps you install unix packaged on OSX, it has nothing to do with linux per se
[12:16] <plovs> tseng, do you have knoppix?
[12:16] <pyramid> hiro....well that is the point...most Linux packages run on FreeBSD and other Unix
[12:16] <plovs> tseng, debootstrap from knoppix-ssh
[12:16] <pyramid> hiro, i heard that Apple uses a BSD kernel...but it is only hearsay
[12:17] <tseng> plovs: knoppix-ssh?
[12:17] <hiro> pyramid: true, however it's quite a pain to se everything up the way i want it...i develop on mono and gtk#, which are second-class citizens on OSX
[12:17] <tseng> ill just hook up a crt now
[12:17] <plovs> tseng, http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/Headless%20Knoppix
[12:17] <tseng> hm
[12:18] <pyramid> hiro, you mean you can't just get the gentoo mono package and compile it for your apple
[12:18] <hiro> anyway, another question for the crowd: what is the preferred way to install the xvid codec on ubuntu?
[12:18] <hiro> pyramid: nope, it's not that easy
[12:18] <linux_mafia> tseng, good sleep voltron?
[12:18] <soleblaze> no one here knows if it's possible to do a diskless install with Ubuntu?
[12:18] <pyramid> hiro, hmmm...i did not know...i have never seen an apple computer in my life
[12:18] <plovs> hiro, http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions under dvd
[12:19] <hiro> plovs: thanks, lemme check that out
[12:19] <debianfreedom> how old is ubuntu linux?
[12:19] <plovs> soleblaze, debootstrap
[12:20] <Charon79m> New to IRC....  looking for assistance with LT WinModem install on Armada E500.
[12:20] <plovs> debianfreedom, it will be born oct 18th
[12:20] <linux_mafia> Charon79m, www.linuxant.com
[12:21] <debianfreedom> so i'm not too late :)
[12:21] <pyramid> hiro, apple has always been way to expensive for me
[12:21] <debianfreedom> on google there is 83000 links to ubuntu linux
[12:22] <plovs> debianfreedom, you can still by presents, or install the dailybuild
[12:22] <debianfreedom> i thought it was more than a year at least
[12:22] <TdC_VgA> anyone know a repo with unrar packages on it? doesnt seem to be in universe
[12:22] <soleblaze> plovs: is that on the cd or am I going to have to set that up seperatly?
[12:22] <plovs> debianfreedom, not bad for a distro that's not yet officially out
[12:22] <plovs> soleblaze, one cd
[12:22] <debianfreedom> :)
[12:23] <soleblaze> plovs: ok, thanks
[12:23] <hiro> plovs: looks like there are no binaries for PPC for the DVD stuff
[12:23] <pyramid> plovs, i don't see anything at google for debainfreedom
[12:23] <debianfreedom> so how do i sign up?
[12:25] <plovs> hiro, http://honk.physik.uni-konstanz.de/~agx/linux-ppc/debian/mplayer/ but don't complain if it blows up your computer this was the first link i found in google
[12:25] <plovs> pyramid, ?
[12:26] <plovs> debianfreedom, for what?
[12:26] <debianfreedom> i mean to become part of the community
[12:26] <staticactivity> when i try to install java, i'm getting this error: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[12:26] <debianfreedom> forum or something?
[12:27] <plovs> debianfreedom, mailinglist and irc atm 
[12:27] <pyramid> plovs, i saw your statement that debain freedom will be born oct 15 so i googled for debianfreedom but nothing comes up
[12:27] <debianfreedom> thanx plovs is there no help file at the moment?
[12:28] <debianfreedom> apart from the web site
[12:28] <plovs> pyramid, debianfreedom is a user on irc, on oct 18 ubuntu will be born :) http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fReleaseSchedule
[12:28] <hiro> plovs: i might actually just go ahead and compile this from source
[12:28] <plovs> hiro, always better
[12:28] <pyramid> plovs, oh ok...that explains it
[12:28] <plovs> hiro, just like gentoo :)
[12:28] <TdC_VgA> is there a non-free repo for ubuntu? i need to get ahold of unrar
[12:29] <plovs> debianfreedom, nope but irc is active
[12:29] <hazmat> how do you enable emacs key bindings for gnome?
[12:29] <hiro> plovs: yeah, i use gentoo on all my boxes...but want to give ubuntu a try
[12:29] <morteoh> TdC_VgA: just download from rarlab.net?
[12:29] <hazmat> i thought it was in keyboard shortcuts.. but its not..
[12:29] <hiro> plovs: so far i'm pretty impressed by how much works out of the box
[12:29] <pyramid> hiro, well eventually ubuntu will be much easier than gentoo
[12:29] <plovs> hiro, i got tired of gentoo, i like this a lot
[12:30] <hazmat> i'm in that club as well..
[12:30] <hazmat> still run gentoo on the servers though ...
[12:30] <debianfreedom> is there a new version coming out / can i start to download:
[12:30] <debianfreedom> http://ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/ubuntu-cdimage/releases/warty/preview/
[12:30] <plovs> gentoo has a *great* community a *great* forum and very good docs
[12:30] <linux_mafia> so
[12:30] <plovs> debianfreedom, better take a daily build
[12:31] <hazmat> debianfreedom, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[12:31] <pyramid> plovs, i think the gentoo docks are terrible...they don't give you addresses for libusb...and they don't fully document catalyst
[12:31] <TdC_VgA> how can i mount a USB Thumb drive? the first time it automounted it on /dev/sda1, but now i can't get it to mount again
[12:31] <pyramid> plovs, it takes hours of searching to find these things
[12:31] <hiro> plovs: and plenty of packages...that actually work
[12:31] <debianfreedom> hazmat is that image updated daily
[12:31] <pyramid> plovs, the gentoo docs have never been very good
[12:32] <debianfreedom> i'm on 56k at the moment
[12:32] <plovs> pyramid, that's not terrible, terrible is the book i got with my video :)
[12:32] <pyramid> plovs, that is funny
[12:32] <Phr0stByte> I tried to upgrade a bunch of packages - system wont take the root passwoed anymore - how can I fix that?
[12:32] <hazmat> debianfreedom, yes
[12:33] <hazmat> debianfreedom, use one of the named dailies then
[12:33] <hiro> brb
[12:33] <subterrific> Phr0stByte: there shouldn't be a root password
[12:33] <hazmat> or it will switch over on you
[12:33] <pyramid> plovs, i think gentoo's problem is that they try to oversimplify everything
[12:33] <subterrific> Phr0stByte: you should use sudo with your password
[12:33] <Phr0stByte> subterrific: I meant things like Synaptic and root term
[12:34] <pyramid> plovs, but it really ticks me off that they don't fully document catalyst
[12:34] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, if you forget your password, you should be able to switch to a single user run mode
[12:34] <Phr0stByte> subterrific: will not take my pass anymore
[12:34] <hazmat> er. run level
[12:34] <plovs> pyramid, it's still quite new and not finished isn't it besides programmers hate writing docs
[12:34] <pyramid> plovs, well i know but catalyst is very very important
[12:34] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: I did not forget - it just wont take it. I think Debian packages broke it
[12:35] <pyramid> if they are going to doc anything they should doc catalyst first
[12:35] <plovs> Phr0stByte, are you still logged in?
[12:35] <Phr0stByte> yes
[12:35] <Phr0stByte> sudo works fine
[12:35] <plovs> pyramid, well, how many people use catalyst, i never even looked at it
[12:35] <pyramid> plovs, without catalyst docs...the only distros we can create are debian based distros
[12:36] <plovs> Phr0stByte, sudo is all you need
[12:36] <plovs> pyramid, so? problem solved, here we are :)
[12:36] <Sleeper> whats that iso.torrent file?
[12:36] <Sleeper> in the downloads
[12:36] <hazmat> sudo bash ;-) sudo passwd 
[12:36] <Phr0stByte> plovs: i did not need to use sudo before for Synaptic and root term
[12:36] <Phr0stByte> thats my point
[12:37] <Och> Any software for digital cameras in ubuntu?
[12:37] <pyramid> plovs, i think it is terrible that gentoo does not document catalyst properly so people can create competition distros for gentoo
[12:37] <plovs> pyramid, besides if you want to muck with something like catalist you have to know perl, "so use the source,luke" 
[12:37] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, only if you were already in a root term and started synaptic from it, or your sudo cache was still in effect
[12:37] <hazmat> pyramid, dude show a distro that documents the inner workings of its installer to any large degree
[12:38] <hazmat> pyramid, where is yast or anaconda documented?
[12:38] <plovs> Phr0stByte, for root-terminal you give your own password (it uses sudo as well)
[12:38] <pyramid> hazmat, debian has always documented its approach...this is how knoppix was born
[12:38] <pyramid> hazmat, anaconda is redhat stuff...they never play fair with linux because they are into commercial stuff
[12:39] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: No - I know that. I mean going to applications menu and choosing Synaptic or Root Term
[12:39] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: Click on it - I dialogue box comes up for your pass
[12:39] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: It does not except it anymore
[12:40] <pyramid> plovs, i think it is absurd that gentoo does not document catalyst
[12:40] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: After updating with Debian sources in my list
[12:40] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, whats in your /var/log/auth.log ?
[12:40] <absurdhero> I am concerned about the lack of a PPC support team and the lack of apple laptop support in the laptop team
[12:40] <plovs> pyramid, to close this rather off-topic discussion: 1. they gave you the source 2. http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/catalyst/reference.xml
[12:40] <hazmat> absurdhero, word
[12:41] <hazmat> absurdhero, there are still several canonical developers running on powerbooks
[12:41] <pyramid> plovs, yes i need to take a look at that source...but part 2 of the catalyst documentation involves mkisofs and other stuff...so it is difficult without the documentation
[12:41] <absurdhero> why there so little documentation concerning powerbooks?
[12:41] <hazmat> pyramid, if your concerned about documenting it why don't you step up.. its not like its a fucking consipiracy
[12:42] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: A lot - what are you needing?
[12:42] <TdC_VgA> alright, i've installed the NDIS Driver, the Windows Binary drives yada yada... now how do i setup the interface?
[12:42] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, i'm making a list of all the things that need to be done for the powerbook install to be nicer
[12:42] <TdC_VgA> iwconf doesnt show any interfaces..
[12:42] <hazmat> i'll do a write up for the sounder or dev list.. latter this week.
[12:42] <punkass_> have to add it to your /etc/network/interfaces file
[12:42] <jamesdorn> subterrific: Updates all done, same problem
[12:43] <punkass_> TdC_Vga: iface wlan0 inet dhcp
[12:44] <punkass_> you can also set any Essids or wep keys there too if u like
[12:44] <TdC_VgA> thanks.. i rebooted and it seems to have taken care of it heh
[12:44] <subterrific> jamesdorn: i guess try cdrecord
[12:44] <subterrific> jamesdorn: or toast
[12:44] <jamesdorn> subterrific: toast burns the cd, and the install will start - but then it cannot mount the CDROM after that
[12:44] <jamesdorn> so it will not install
[12:44] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: here is the failure messege - Oct  3 17:16:46 localhost su[31869] : (pam_unix) authentication failure; logname= uid=1000 euid=0 tty=pts/0 ruser=phr0stbyte rhost=  user=root
[12:44] <Phr0stByte> Oct  3 17:16:48 localhost su[31869] : pam_authenticate: Authentication failure
[12:44] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, sorry got mixed up in diff conversations.. i was just curious whats in there after an usuccesfull attempt
[12:44] <plovs> good-night everyone!
[12:44] <hazmat> ah
[12:45] <jamesdorn> subterrific: cdrecord is not an option until someone can tell me the BSD path to my CD-RW drive.
[12:45] <hazmat> g'nite plovs
[12:45] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, i dunno.. i'd bring it up on the user list
[12:46] <darkling> jamesdorn: BSD path?
[12:46] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: shout "rhost= " have a value?
[12:46] <Phr0stByte> *should
[12:46] <darkling> jamesdorn: It's undocumented, but cdrecord accepts device nodes for dev=
[12:46] <jamesdorn> darkling: cdrecord wants a dev path to the cd-rw... and scanbus doesnt work
[12:46] <phin_> is the default debian kernel config the same as the ubuntu?
[12:47] <visik7> phin_ what do u mean ?
[12:47] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, not afaics.. i just tried a failed login and its blank for me as well (entered wrong password).. but it works otherwise
[12:47] <phin_> are the default .config files the same
[12:48] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: Damn Debian sources broke my Ubuntu
[12:48] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, have you looked at your /etc/sudoers file
[12:48] <jamesdorn> darkling: do you know what the dev path is in OSX?
[12:48] <jamesdorn>  /dev/???
[12:49] <Zero-G> yes - at least on this powerbook ;o)
[12:49] <TdC_VgA> best way to set the WEP Key? command line or gnome?
[12:49] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, its quite possible the a deb sudo package might have overwritten
[12:49] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, in mine i see # Added by Ubuntu installer
[12:49] <hazmat> hazmat  ALL=(ALL) ALL
[12:49] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: how would I find out on any mac?
[12:49] <darkling> jamesdorn: Ah, no. Sorry. I didn't read back far enough... :(
[12:49] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: what is it on the pb?
[12:49] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: # User privilege specification
[12:49] <Phr0stByte> root    ALL=(ALL) ALL
[12:49] <Phr0stByte> # Added by Ubuntu installer
[12:49] <Phr0stByte> phr0stbyte      ALL=(ALL) ALL
[12:49] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: it's definitely /dev/ on any Mac, just like it is on FreeBSD
[12:49] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, if you can read that your already root
[12:50] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: right, I know its /dev/ but whats the name of the device?
[12:50] <jamesdorn>  /dev/???
[12:50] <jamesdorn> hdc?
[12:50] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: NO - I did sudo cat /etc/sudoers
[12:50] <Zero-G> oh, sorry - enter conversation too late
[12:50] <robertj_> hrmm, im getting intermittent connaction over wireless when I'm < 5 feet from my wap :(
[12:50] <robertj_> no problems on win32 or ubuntu x86
[12:50] <Zero-G> hang on - let me look for my dvd
[12:51] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, so your problem is confined soley to the auth screen for synaptic?
[12:51] <hazmat> when launched from the gnome menu?
[12:51] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, what about sudo synaptic ? or sudo bash ; synaptic ?
[12:51] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: Stuff in X that require pass
[12:51] <Phr0stByte> sudo in term always works
[12:52] <robertj_> so would be doing a %s/warty/hoary/g in /etc/apt/sources.list be hazardous to my computers health at this point ;)
[12:52] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, i have no idea then... 
[12:53] <pyramid> those catalyst docs at gentoo are worthless ...they don't show how to create a bootable live cd that autodetects lots of hardware for distro competition
[12:53] <Zero-G> CD  = /dev/disk2s0 on my Mac, but i don't know how general that is... try /dev/diskXs0 for different values of X starting from 0 until it works
[12:53] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: Is there an easy way to remove all non Ubuntu packages?
[12:54] <pyramid> pyramid, right now...the only bootable live cd's we can create are debian based ones...and it doesn't cover all known hardware
[12:55] <jamesdorn> does no one know how I can find this?
[12:56] <robertj_> pyramid: any news on the warty artwork
[12:57] <pyramid> robertj, no but there sure are a lot of interested ubuntu people...look at how many in just this room on just this server
[12:57] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: is your cd moounted?
[12:57] <TdC_VgA> punkass do i need to install an iface package?
[12:58] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: if so, just type mount at a command prompt
[12:58] <pyramid> robertj, i really am personally interested in creating a hurd distro as soon as the gnu threads are ready to support gnome and kde...and also maybe get a sound drvier to work with
[12:58] <fragment> Anyone know if there's a way to toggle UTC system clock via the GUI?
[12:58] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: eh?
[12:58] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: The blank one?
[12:59] <robertj_> pyramid: what's the big deal about HURD?
[12:59] <jamesdorn> I am trying to write an image on a blank disk with cdrecord
[12:59] <pyramid> robertj, i don't think MS can destroy the Hurd like it can destroy Linux....
[12:59] <jamesdorn> well crap
[12:59] <jamesdorn> your write
[12:59] <robertj_> pyramid: why not?
[12:59] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: stick a non-blank CD in. hope it gets mounted automatically, type mount, note /dev/ location of CD, stick in blank cd
[01:00] <pyramid> robertj, because the Hurd really is not Unix....it is a different philosophical approach with translators
[01:00] <jamesdorn> you just helped me
[01:00] <jamesdorn> thanks
[01:00] <subterrific> pyramid: wait, how exactly can microsoft destroy linux? because linux isn't really unix either
[01:01] <robertj_> pyramid: but why does that do it any better legally? Surely if they own the rights to unix they own rights to utils that have been cloned by bsd/gnu
[01:01] <fragment> subterrific, smother it in lawyers?
[01:01] <jamesdorn> hrm
[01:01] <fragment> :D
[01:01] <subterrific> fragment: not working so far
[01:01] <pyramid> subterrific, if you take posix threads out of linux...all you have left is unix...and yes MS can destroy it because they have many Unix approach patents to destroy it with
[01:01] <jamesdorn> still says no matching devices for /dev/disk2s0
[01:01] <mjr> pyramid, good, 'cause I'm interested in using Hurd once I can run Gnome on and get sound out of it ;)
[01:01] <robertj_> playing what if patent games are dumb
[01:02] <fragment> subterrific, They're waiting for the Great Lawyer Surplus of 2020.
[01:02] <subterrific> heh
[01:02] <mjr> I have no doubts that Hurd violates a bunch of patents as well, though
[01:02] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: try /dev/disk2 without a slice on the end
[01:02] <pyramid> robertj, MS is not playing games they are using real Big $$$ to arm themselves with an arsenal of patents just like IBM has
[01:02] <robertj_> If you really want to play it safe take opendarwin and start hacking
[01:02] <robertj_> at least then apple legal has to go to bat for you
[01:02] <jamesdorn> nope
[01:02] <Zero-G> hmmm
[01:02] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: no luck
[01:03] <subterrific> people have been waiting for hurd to be usable for longer than linux has existed...
[01:03] <LinuxJones> IBM can kick MS but in a patent war
[01:03] <robertj_> and bottom line is that the doj would smack them if they try to put linux down with a patent war
[01:03] <Zero-G> are you burning this on MacOSX?
[01:03] <mjr> robertj_, yeah, on the wrist
[01:03] <clee> yeah, because the DoJ has been super effective thus far.
[01:03] <hazmat> Phr0stByte, dunno.. i'm a debian neophyte.. can you start synaptic from a term?
[01:03] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: Yes
[01:03] <pyramid> subterrific, well there is now a patch for ext2 to extend Hurd for large partitions..but still no alsa sound driver and still no gnu threads support for gnome and kde
[01:04] <robertj_> The US government is not MS's friend
[01:04] <robertj_> If push comes to shove they will stab it in the back
[01:04] <clee> robertj_: dude, you're dreaming.
[01:04] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: http://www.nedrichards.com/archives/2002/09/19/osx-iso-burning/
[01:04] <tylerwylie> hello
[01:05] <Keybuk> I'd've thought the opposite would be true; Linux has less to fear because being more UNIX-like there's more chance of smacking down any patent because it'd apply to a dozen other companies with similar code ... whereas Hurd is a little more exciting and on the edge, and may infringe as-yet-undiscovered patents companies had lurking in their drawers
[01:05] <pyramid> robertj, the doj lets MS do anything they want to do
[01:05] <robertj_> clee: nope. Polticians are fickle
[01:05] <robertj_> at some point everyone gets stabbed in the back
[01:05] <subterrific> Hurd is not exciting and on the edge. most of the code is 10+ years old
[01:05] <tylerwylie> how's ubuntu's apt-repository compared to say... gentoo's portage package database?
[01:05] <robertj_> If they get mad enough they could/would/will amend the constitution to allow them to seize patents for public domain
[01:06] <robertj_> tyler: ubuntu's apt repository is notably like debian's package repository
[01:06] <mjr> *hmm*, let's count the reasons why the US government wants to not have a US company have an OS monopoly...
[01:06] <mjr> let's see...
[01:06] <joem> there are better places to have this conversation
[01:06] <mjr> umm
[01:06] <mjr> err
[01:06] <robertj_> 1. because there is no such thing as a US company
[01:06] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: 'Disk Copy' is a tool from 10.2 and was phased out for 10.3. it was integrated into Disk Copy - witch is the tool I am having problems with
[01:06] <joem> anywhere but here..
[01:06] <tylerwylie> robertj, how many packages total?
[01:06] <robertj_> james: good grief, I wish they kept that
[01:06] <mjr> joem, agreed, I'll stop
[01:06] <robertj_> james: i have a bajillion users that cant copy cds without using toast because they can't comprehend the task of using disk images
[01:07] <robertj_> tyler: more than 5
[01:07] <Zero-G> ahhh - I have Toast ;o)
[01:07] <tylerwylie> ...
[01:07] <tylerwylie> 5?
[01:07] <tylerwylie> lol
[01:07] <robertj_> james: i coudln't burn warty with disk utility
[01:07] <robertj_> it crashed on me
[01:07] <robertj_> I had to burn it using a windows machine
[01:08] <clee> tylerwylie: my apt-get install list shows 16483 packages available
[01:08] <tylerwylie> k
[01:08] <clee> but that does include 1) Warty's 'universe' package set and 2) tseng's mono repository
[01:08] <jamesdorn> ah-ha!
[01:08] <robertj_> oky, much more immediate legal question. The faq says research is being done into multimedia support's legal implications. What research is being done/planned?
[01:08] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: my Disk Utility appears to be working fine...
[01:09] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: I got a wrapper app to work with cdrecord
[01:09] <jamesdorn> works good
[01:09] <jamescube> hey, any ppc users here?
[01:09] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: Do you have the newest of the downloaded isos?
[01:09] <robertj_> james: here!
[01:09] <robertj_> I'm on a g3 ibook right now
[01:09] <robertj_> in warty
[01:09] <robertj_> And I daylight as a system admin at a 90% mac shop
[01:10] <jamescube> cool
[01:10] <Zero-G> i'm on a PPC... mines a g4 baby powerbook
[01:10] <octalc0de> where's ubuntu's /boot/grub/grub.conf
[01:10] <octalc0de> it's not there ?=(
[01:10] <subterrific> octalc0de: menu.lst
[01:10] <jamescube> what do us ppc users do in the way of java plugin and flash plugin for firefox?
[01:10] <Zero-G> use Safari?
[01:10] <jamescube> uh
[01:10] <Zero-G> ;o)
[01:10] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: If so, disk utility doesnt have a problem with the warty images being mouted?
[01:11] <jamescube> no osx.. hehe
[01:11] <mjr> jamescube, whine to Sun and Macromedia about their unopenness
[01:11] <Phr0stByte> What package is the Root Terminal in?
[01:11] <octalc0de> subterrific: oh, thanks
[01:11] <jamescube> mjr, yeah.. heh.. bastards
[01:11] <robertj_> james: OS X.3 would mount it but not burn it
[01:11] <robertj_> that was my experience anyway
[01:11] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: I'm not mounting the disk image. I stuck a CD in the drive, selected Burn in disk utility, selected the .iso and glicked go
[01:12] <robertj_> Zero: did it crash?
[01:12] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: disk utility crashes when I do that.
[01:12] <robertj_> james: same here
[01:12] <jamesdorn> on all four of my macs... including the new powerbook out of the box
[01:12] <robertj_> I burned it using Windows XP's iso burner at work
[01:12] <jamesdorn> =)
[01:12] <Zero-G> hasn't crashed yet
[01:12] <jamesdorn> let me see if this worked
[01:13] <jamesdorn> ah ha! i think this worked
[01:13] <robertj_> btw, how do you change which button acts as right click?
[01:14] <robertj_> F12 isn't convenient as it requires an fn key press to use on this ibook
[01:14] <robertj_> right command would seem like a better choice for me
[01:14] <jamesdorn> it so worked!
[01:14] <jamesdorn> Does ubuntu work with the new powerbooks?
[01:14] <jamesdorn> 1.33ghz?
[01:15] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: burnt cd with Disk Utiltiy - it's just verifying it now
[01:15] <robertj_> james: what did you do?
[01:15] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: hrm
[01:15] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: hang on though - i just thought
[01:15] <jamesdorn> hrm
[01:15] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: i'm burning the i386 version
[01:15] <jamesdorn> same problem... it will not mount the cdrom durring the installation
[01:16] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: no way am i giving up my baby to linux - i would miss the shiny edges
[01:16] <robertj_> I'm dual booting fine here
[01:16] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: =) right.
[01:16] <jamesdorn> dual boot
[01:17] <danbot> but marble I already have
[01:17] <robertj_> btw, do yall ever long for a dock plugin?
[01:17] <Zero-G> jamesdorn: oh look, Disk Utility burnt a lovely i386 iso - now I have two of them
[01:17] <Phr0stByte> What package is Root Terminal in?
[01:18] <jamesdorn> lol
[01:18] <jamesdorn> Zero-G: now try the powerpc =)
[01:19] <Zero-G> bah - no way am i going to dual boot - MacOSX gives me everything i need apart from the Active Directory Users and Groups Management console for Windows
[01:19] <Zero-G> i'm sticking ubuntu on my work desktop
[01:20] <Phr0stByte> What package is Root Terminal in?
[01:20] <jamesdorn> This is such a mess
[01:20] <jamesdorn> brb
[01:21] <morteoh> how can i make rhytmbox play mp3's?
[01:22] <danbot> Why dont you just use XMMS
[01:23] <robertj_> Because once rhythmbox plays mp3s every gstreamer app plays mp3s
[01:23] <danbot> ahh
[01:23] <TdC_VgA> any graphics WiFi managment tools? i'm having a bitch of a time configuring this adapater now lol
[01:23] <robertj_> That means in the distant distant future when Impress plays an mp3 via gstreamer it will work
[01:23] <robertj_> TdC: I added mine using the Network utility
[01:24] <tylerwylie> man if amaroK didn't have to be kde based it would kick ass
[01:24] <TdC_VgA> modified /etc/network/interfaces added what i think should make it work, but no such luck.. i get no DHCP response
[01:24] <robertj_> TdC: remove all that junk and use the UGI
[01:24] <robertj_> err GUI
[01:24] <TdC_VgA> robertj: the one supplied by gnome? if so how did you setup the wap
[01:25] <robertj_> TdC: its an open WAP
[01:25] <robertj_> get it working -key then worry about it
[01:25] <TdC_VgA> see thats my problem.. i can't setup the wap part from gnome
[01:25] <robertj_> are you using WEP?
[01:25] <jamescube> well crap.. no java plugin.. wife will be annoyed.  the blackdown ones seem to be compiled ages ago, so they dont work.. and the moz-vlc plugin seems broken in ppc too
[01:26] <TdC_VgA> yeah WEP
[01:26] <morteoh> jamescube: download from java.sun.com ?
[01:26] <jamescube> for ppc?
[01:26] <TdC_VgA> sorry i'm a j2me developer used to typing WAP hehe
[01:26] <robertj_> TdC: does it work fine with WEP disabled?
[01:26] <TdC_VgA> not sure... i'd have to get wep turned off heh
[01:26] <robertj_> I'd do that
[01:27] <TdC_VgA> i can see the signal strengh in gnomes toolbar thing though
[01:27] <morteoh> jamescube: oh, ppc.. sure.. not idea
[01:27] <robertj_> then if that works maybe iwconfig eth1 key blah
[01:28] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: I fixed the problem!!!
[01:28] <robertj_> I'd file an rfe though
[01:28] <Phr0stByte> hazmat: I had to roll-back gksu
[01:31] <jamesdorn> freaking crap... hole
[01:32] <TdC_VgA> alright have to knock this laptop off to test this
[01:32] <jamesdorn> the installer cannot mount the CDROM again!
[01:35] <menator> okay, got it installed, but I use my internet through my builtin gigabyte gnwiag wireless. I usually use ndiswrapper or madwifi. Both need kernel source to compile. Where can I download the source from? I don't have net access in ubuntu as of yet so I can't use apt-get.
[01:38] <LinuxJones> menator, http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.8.1/linux-source-2.6.8.1_2.6.8.1.orig.tar.gz
[01:38] <joem> you don't need the source to compile drivers
[01:39] <joem> just linux-headers
[01:40] <TdC_WTF> nope, no such luck
[01:40] <TdC_WTF> still dont get a DHCP response.. maybe it's because i'm using the NDIS Wrapper
[01:40] <jason__> hey
[01:40] <TdC_WTF> odd though, i can definitely see my signal strength.. 
[01:40] <jason__> is there anyway to play mp3s in ubuntu?
[01:40] <LinuxJones> hi jason__
[01:40] <jamesdorn> lol
[01:41] <jason__> xmms doesnt work
[01:41] <jamesdorn> I pissed some guy of that could not speak good english yesterday... he said "hey, fuc(< you in my @ss"
[01:41] <jason__> totem and rythembox wont play mp3s
[01:41] <jamesdorn> was totally funny
[01:41] <subterrific> jason__: read the FAQ
[01:42] <jason__> what faq?
[01:42] <subterrific>  /topic
[01:42] <MightyJoeYoung> is ubuntu 100 % compatible with debian, ie. if i add debian sources to my /etc/apt/sources.list will stuff break ?
[01:42] <subterrific> mp3 has patent restrictions
[01:42] <jdub> MightyJoeYoung: we discourage it
[01:42] <jgeorgeson> so the faq makes it sound like there is no mp3 support, but i'm able to listen to mp3 streams from shoutcast.com in rhythmbox. but i don't get titles
[01:42] <jdub> MightyJoeYoung: see the faq :)
[01:42] <Keybuk> MightyJoeYoung: no, things will break.  Instead add the Ubuntu "universe" component which contains Debian recompiled
[01:43] <MightyJoeYoung> okay ... but where can i find mplayer ?
[01:43] <LinuxJones> MightyJoeYoung, try apt-get.org
[01:43] <MightyJoeYoung> LinuxJones, thanks
[01:44] <Keybuk> you *can* install Debian .debs on Ubuntu, it's the APT sources that don't work particularly well
[01:44] <jgeorgeson> where's frozen-bubble?
[01:45] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: in universe
[01:45] <micX> jdub, I can't believe you dumped your toilet seat iBook. How could you? :)
[01:45] <MightyJoeYoung> can i become a member of ubuntulinux.org .. ? Nice to see it uses plone :)
[01:45] <MepisBelle> Keybuk: Not advisable according to the website.
[01:46] <MepisBelle> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.7453904394
[01:47] <jgeorgeson> Keyduk: bummer, I tried enabling universe about an hour ago and got errors doing an apt-get update (i would retry it now but i'm currently doing an upgrade for the 200+ updates in main and restricted
[01:47] <Keybuk> MepisBelle: the problem is, as that link says, APT can't distinguish between two packages of the same version from different sources when their MD5 sums are different (which is what happens when you mix Ubuntu and Debian); and actually makes a random one the candidate, so you'll end up randomly downloading subsets of Debian and Ubuntu every single time you update
[01:47] <menator> Is the kernel source on the cd?
[01:47] <jamesdorn> HEY!
[01:47] <jamesdorn> http://tuxtina.de/archives/2004-09-16T04_19_09.html
[01:47] <MepisBelle> Keybuk: Exactly - so it's not advised.  :-)
[01:47] <jamesdorn> someone has the same freaking problem
[01:47] <Keybuk> but you can just grab the .debs themselves and install them, because dpkg doesn't care at all
[01:48] <menator> I'm need the source to compile the madwifi drivers
[01:48] <Keybuk> though it is probably far sweeter if you grabbed the sources and built your own .debs against Ubuntu, and provided them for everyone
[01:48] <jason__> wow that sucks
[01:49] <jason__> no mp3 support
[01:49] <jason__> :(
[01:49] <Keybuk> jason__: install the gstreamer0.8-mad package?
[01:49] <jason__> sec
[01:49] <jamesdorn> jason__: all of linux is facing your 'problem'
[01:49] <jason__> I will
[01:49] <asdf_46> How are the packages avalable for ubuntu picked? Is it like user linux where there is a set list, or just what is currently avalible?
[01:50] <jgeorgeson> Keybuk: do you know how to enable song title info from streams in rhythmbox?
[01:50] <LinuxJones> asdf_46, you can do a base install then add whatever apps you like
[01:50] <asdf_46> LinuxJones, I mean what is avalible in the repository.
[01:51] <jason__> thanks mp3 support works now
[01:51] <menator> anyone know if the kernel source is somewhere on the cd, or do I have to download it from somewhere. I need to compile madwifi so I can connect to my net.
[01:51] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: not off-hand; I've got gstreamer0.8-plugins and its dependencies installed and it seems to work fine
[01:51] <jgeorgeson> menator: it's called linux-source, I believe
[01:52] <LinuxJones> asdf_46, there are over 13,000 packages acailable if you include universe repo
[01:52] <LinuxJones> err available
[01:52] <menator> jgeorgeson: thnx
[01:53] <asdf_46> LinuxJones, Do I have to add that repository seperatly? I don't remeber seeing that many in synaptic.
[01:53] <jensens> ubuntu in austrian-media (popular newpaper): http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=1803391 (may it isnt new for you)
[01:53] <jgeorgeson> Keybuk: is gstreamer-plugins a meta package? `dpkg -l gstreamer*` shows I'm only missing audiosink, colorpsace, plugins, and videosink
[01:54] <LinuxJones> asdf_46, yes if you go settings >> repositories you can check the line that has main restricted universe you will be fine
[01:54] <asdf_46> LinuxJones, Found a link and answred my own question, thanks for the help
[01:54] <asdf_46> thank
[01:54] <LinuxJones> np
[01:55] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: yes, but it's gstreamer0.8-plugins
[01:57] <danbot> I am currently decideing between ubuntu-a64 and debian-a64. anyone have any advice
[02:00] <LinuxJones> danbot, Ubuntu is more polished IMHO. However I don't know about the a64 releases.
[02:02] <jgeorgeson> is there a convenient runlevel editor (really miss service/chkconfig form fedora)?
[02:02] <LinuxJones> jgeorgeson, update-rc.d
[02:03] <jason__> how do I mount my windows drive so that I can use it not as root
[02:04] <jason__> ???
[02:04] <morteoh> is it possible to have GVM not mount removeable devices with noexec ?
[02:04] <asdf_46> jason__, -o user=USERNAME,group=GROUPNAME
[02:05] <asdf_46> jason__, and make sure the directory you are mounting to is read and writable by that user.
[02:06] <WW> When I start mplayer, I get an error window that says: New_Face failed. Maybe the font path is wrong. Please supply the text font file (~/.mplayer/subfont.ttf).
[02:06] <LinuxJones> WW, you can download the fonts form the mplayer homepage I think
[02:06] <LinuxJones> err from
[02:06] <morteoh> WW: are you using the .deb's ?
[02:06] <morteoh> WW: mplayer-fonts 
[02:06] <Serenity^> and then set the font ya wanna use
[02:09] <tonybaloney> hello... got a question about playing dvd's
[02:09] <jgeorgeson> tonybaloney: ask away (i probably have same question though)
[02:10] <tonybaloney> what do I need to install on ubuntu to play commercial copy-protected dvds? 
[02:10] <jgeorgeson> I would guess libdvdcss from debian-marillat, unless it's included in universe
[02:10] <LinuxJones> tonybaloney, http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions see # 5
[02:11] <tseng> dvdcss from marillat and totem-xine
[02:11] <Serenity^> yeah, probly woudn't hurt to have libdvdread as well, tho I dunno if it's mandatory
[02:11] <WW> morteoh, Serenity^, LinuxJones: Thanks, I installed mplayer-fonts (from marillat), and now I don't get the error.
[02:11] <tonybaloney> doh, thanks didn't see that in the FAQ...thanks will try the marillat link..thanks all
[02:12] <jgeorgeson> LinuxJones: `sudo update-rc.d postfix stop 20 3 4 5 .` just says 'System startup links for /etc/init.d/postfix already exist.'
[02:12] <tseng> schweeb: did you ever rebuild that stuff?
[02:13] <LinuxJones> jgeorgeson, if you want to stop a service you can /etc/init.d/servicename stop
[02:14] <jgeorgeson> LinuxJones: I thought that command would make it not start in runlevels 345, which is what I want
[02:14] <LinuxJones> jgeorgeson, if you want to delete the service from runlevels you can update-rc.d -f postfix remove
[02:14] <Serenity^> or just comment it out
[02:15] <asdf_46> Is there any yast-ish config program for Ubuntu?
[02:15] <Serenity^> learn to use the console
[02:15] <WW> Sorry, more questions from the clueless: What software or configuration do  I need to listen to this online radio station: http://www.wfuv.org/stream.html
[02:15] <Serenity^> what happens when yer fancy gui breaks and ya cant fix anything ?
[02:15] <LinuxJones> asdf_46, not quite but hopefully they will adopt yast since it has been GPL'd
[02:15] <tseng> adopt yast? nasty.
[02:16] <WW> Both Windowsmedia and ShoutCast cause mplayer to start, but then nothing happens.
[02:16] <Keybuk> yast?  *runs away screaming*
[02:16] <jgeorgeson> LinuxJones: ah, k
[02:16] <LinuxJones> tseng, I wouldn't use it but it might be usefull for people new to Linux
[02:16] <Keybuk> the only tool that makes things harder and take longer than the command line
[02:16] <Serenity^> WW,  I generally use xmms for audio,  
[02:17] <asdf_46> I am all for the command line, but I have to work with other people.
[02:17] <Morchuboo> Hi all - anyone got any idea how I enable the loop device so I can mount an iso image?
[02:17] <Serenity^> you could always pray for the deb based distros to bring back linuxconf lol!
[02:17] <jensens> whats the adress of the marillat repository for mplayer?
[02:18] <Morchuboo> do i have to recompile kernel?
[02:18] <LinuxJones> linuxconf rolf
[02:18] <|trey|> LinuxJones: I would rather they adopt the Fedora tools... YaST is perhaps the worst configuration program available on the linux platform!
[02:18] <Serenity^> the "L" word lolol
[02:18] <Morchuboo> oops doesnt matter - just found there is a module for it
[02:18] <|trey|> YaST is incredibly slow, and annoying!
[02:19] <asdf_46> |trey|, do the fedora tools work in non-gui?
[02:19] <|trey|> asdf_46: yes... 'setup'
[02:19] <LinuxJones> |trey|, yes they are quite nice.
[02:19] <jgeorgeson> LinuxJones: I don't see a way to print a summary of each service's on/off setting for each runlevel
[02:19] <Serenity^> there's a large outcry from my distro's community againt someone innocently suggesting a gui for the pkg manager, heh
[02:19] <WW> jensens: See question 5: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[02:19] <jgeorgeson> I hate yast
[02:20] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: ls /etc/rc?.d
[02:20] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: the Ubuntu policy (like Debian) is that installed services start automatically
[02:20] <|trey|> Keybuk: umm, the redhat tools assume your a moron, much like most config tools... 
[02:20] <Serenity^> linuxconf had a nasty habit of mangling things iirc
[02:20] <jensens> WW, thx
[02:20] <asdf_46> I liked yast at first, but everytime I do something it does this giant system check or something that takes forever.
[02:20] <|trey|> They don't even let you do much, but still about as much as YaST lets you do, without being so annoying...
[02:20] <micX> Serenity^, you got that right. linuxconf is a POS.
[02:21] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: from a user point of view, I don't see the benefit in even distinguishing "installed and starting, installed and not starting and not installed" when "installed and not installed" do the job
[02:21] <asdf_46> So what do you do about people unwilling to just use the command line?
[02:21] <Keybuk> |trey|: that's not been my experience with them, sadly
[02:21] <jgeorgeson> I really like service, chkconfig, and the system-config-* apps from fedora
[02:22] <micX> asdf_46, get them a windows box. they deserve it. :)
[02:22] <|trey|> Keybuk: hah... please don't tell me you didn't understand them, else I get to laugh my fucking ass off
[02:22] <|trey|> ps, anyone looked at gdebconf, any good?
[02:22] <Keybuk> |trey|: there's no need to be rude.
[02:22] <jgeorgeson> Keybuk, well, I don't always want sshd running. I never want postifx running, and may uninstall all the lsb stuff so I can get rid of postfix too
[02:22] <Serenity^> I've never been a fan of rh/fedora/mdk,etc  guess I have a nice healthy aversion to rpm, heh
[02:23] <joem> |trey|, language please
[02:23] <|trey|> joem: blah
[02:23] <asdf_46> micX, they are still smart enough to use a hand-holding linux distro
[02:23] <micX> asdf_46, so for the rare occasion, you talk them through it. that's what I do for OSX folks.
[02:24] <|trey|> Serenity^: Fedora and Mandrake don't make you work with RPM's anymore...
[02:24] <menator> anyone here use madwifi or ndiswrapper?
[02:24] <|trey|> DPKG is pretty moronic too if you work with it alone...
[02:24] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: it should probably be easier to uninstall postfix than it currently is.  otherwise you're in a fairly "techie" standpoint (personally, I have a lot of stuff installed on my laptop which I don't start until I want it) and once you're that techie the command line suffices
[02:24] <micX> |trey|, sure, but it's still way better than rpm.
[02:25] <Keybuk> from the pov of a user who isn't a techie, they shouldn't care whether things are installed and need to be started manually -- they should just install what they want and remove what they don't want
[02:25] <|trey|> joem: just out of curiosity, you a dev or an op here?
[02:25] <Serenity^> heh, I use arch and there's not even a dpkg like tool, nor anything like the slack pkgtool even, heh
[02:25] <|trey|> micX: they are about equal actually, its just RPM gets a worse wrap...
[02:25] <jgeorgeson> Keybuk: yeah, I'm just spoiled on chkconfig and service (which you probably already guessed)
[02:26] <|trey|> joem: if not... please don't tell me what to do, theres a good chap
[02:26] <micX> |trey|, in use, maybe because of RH, rpm is worse.
[02:26] <WW> Serenity^: Thanks. I remembered that Rhythmbox has internet radio options, so I'm going to experiment with that.
[02:26] <jgeorgeson> |trey|: so sick of hearing 'apt kicks the crap out of rpm'
[02:26] <Keybuk> |trey|: can you please read and think about http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct
[02:26] <LinuxJones> jgeorgeson, a chkconfig .deb is available for download from a debian repo
[02:26] <|trey|> micX: rpm isn't even sponsored by RH, hasn't been for a number of years...
[02:26] <micX> |trey|, rpm hell is why I gave up on rpm based distros.
[02:27] <Serenity^> WW,  yeah, I just like to use mplayer/xine only for video use and nothing else, heh
[02:27] <|trey|> jgeorgeson: umm, apt and rpm are not comparible, they fullfill different tasks
[02:27] <micX> |trey|, never had that with dpkg.
[02:27] <jgeorgeson> LinuxJones: really?? schweet
[02:27] <jgeorgeson> |trey|: exaclty why I'm sick of hearing it
[02:27] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: there's probably a case for something ncurses like chkconfig, fiddling with symlinks can be a bit of a pain;  but I don't think there needs to be a "easy GUI for novices" because I don't think it's something novices should need to care about
[02:27] <|trey|> micX: because you never work with dpkg... if you stick to yum, you have a simular result...
[02:27] <Serenity^> micX,  heh rpm was dependancy hell
[02:27] <ficusplanet> Will pygtk 2.4.0 make it into the final release of Warty?
[02:28] <micX> |trey|, I'm sorry. I often work with dpkg.
[02:28] <Keybuk> ficusplanet: already uploaded
[02:28] <ficusplanet> Awesome.  That is great news.
[02:28] <|trey|> micX: Once upon a time, your argument was valid... today, it just shows your ignorance...
[02:28] <Serenity^> ouch
[02:29] <micX> |trey|, whatever floats your boat big boy. 
[02:29] <TDT|PB> better to hand a baseball bat to micX so he can whack |trey| in the back of the hea
[02:29] <LinuxJones> lol
[02:29] <TDT|PB> *head
[02:29] <jgeorgeson> Keybuk, chkconfig isn't ncurses, at least it never has been whenI've used it
[02:29] <subterrific> |trey|: yum is the reason i switched to ubuntu
[02:29] <subterrific> it was so awful
[02:30] <|trey|> micX: I have traded between Fedora and Debian for the better part of a year... there is very little difference other then overall appearence today...
[02:30] <Keybuk> jgeorgeson: there definitely was an ncurses one, it might've checked $DISPLAY.  It's been a year or so since I last used RH/Fedora in earnest though
[02:30] <micX> TDT|PB, thanks for the offer, it would mess up the bat.
[02:30] <TDT|PB> Insulting people is the most stupid thing anyone can do, and it really doesn't show any maturity on the part of the individual who is doing the insulting.
[02:30] <|trey|> subterrific: YUM is nice imo...

[02:30] <subterrific> |trey|: i guess if you like slow serial downloading
[02:30] <TDT|PB> micX: yeah, perhaps...a metal bat works nicely :)
[02:30] <Serenity^> pkg management is about the only differing factor in distros these days
[02:31] <xustu> i'm sure you've all heard this a million times    if the root password is disabled and i must use sudo     when i do use sudo and it prompts me for the password   what do i give it?     ie.   >sudo passwd root  >password:
[02:31] <|trey|> subterrific: that occurs ONCE... you can also use APT just as well on Fedora  :/
[02:31] <Keybuk> xustu: your password
[02:31] <xustu> alright 
[02:31] <xustu> ty
[02:31] <jensens> what do i need to make totem running VCD's? it says a plugin is missing. mplayer is installed.
[02:31] <subterrific> |trey|: no, it occurs everytime you run yum install <pkg>
[02:31] <|trey|> subterrific: apt downloads Packages.gz every time you apt-get update... same thing... just yum only updates headers for new packages, whereas apt does it every time you update
[02:31] <danbot> Anybody here use AMD64 Ubuntu?
[02:32] <jsubl2> jensens, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[02:32] <jensens> jsubl2: installed it
[02:32] <Keybuk> jensens: gstreamer0.8-misc
[02:32] <subterrific> yum does it every time you run install
[02:32] <subterrific> which is silly
[02:32] <Keybuk> (assuming you're still using totem-gstreamer)
[02:32] <jason__> root@ubuntu:/home/jason # mount /dev/sda1 /home/jason/windows -o user=jason,group=jason
[02:32] <jason__> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1,
[02:32] <jason__>        or too many mounted file systems
[02:33] <|trey|> subterrific: not really... you download (average) of 100kb's... whereas the average Packages.gz is about 4MB  :/
[02:33] <xustu> does anyone know of a gnome applet that not only reports signal strength but also available access points?
[02:33] <jason__> this is what I get when I try to mount my windows drive so my user can use it:
[02:33] <joem> jason__, you aren't giving it the filesystem
[02:33] <xustu> jason_  try -t vfat
[02:33] <jason__> root@ubuntu:/home/jason # mount /dev/sda1 /home/jason/windows -o user=jason,group=jason
[02:33] <jason__> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1,
[02:33] <jason__>        or too many mounted file systems
[02:33] <xustu> or -t ntfs
[02:33] <jason__> ok
[02:33] <subterrific> |trey|: and yet the 4mb is faster because its one file instead of yum serially connecting, downloading one file, disconnecting, connecting, downloading the next file, etc...
[02:33] <Serenity^> I'm somewhat hesitant to give ubuntu a try, after trying several deb based distros ( & deb itself a few times ) I just never felt comfy with it, kinda afraid to wipe out a sperbly tuned arch install just to experiment, heh
[02:33] <Keybuk> xustu: there are various ones we're considering for Hoary ... there's an issue of how you actually gain the necessary privilege to allow network changing at the moment
[02:34] <jason__>  mount /dev/sda1 /home/jason/windows -o user=jason,group=jason -t ntfs
[02:34] <jason__> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1,
[02:34] <jason__>        or too many mounted file systems
[02:34] <micX> Serenity^, disk is cheap :)
[02:34] <|trey|> subterrific: umm, that is entirely dependent on the server... if you use the default servers, you are the only one to blame for the speed... I see no difference in speed  :/
[02:34] <subterrific> yum should have used rsync
[02:34] <|trey|> subterrific: umm, it can  :/
[02:34] <subterrific> |trey|: the default servers are so limited in the number of packages though
[02:34] <joem> jason__, ease up on the flooding..what file system is the windows partition?
[02:34] <micX> subterrific, like gentoo does.
[02:35] <subterrific> you can't realistically run a desktop system with the default redhat packages
[02:35] <|trey|> subterrific: my point was DON'T use default servers... way to miss it...
[02:35] <Serenity^> I see no advantage to gentoo's src approach
[02:35] <|trey|> micX: no one cares about Gentoo.
[02:35] <Keybuk> jason__: what does "sudo file -s /dev/sda1" say?
[02:35] <micX> |trey|, right.
[02:36] <|trey|> micX: then I will ask you not to bring it up.
[02:36] <subterrific> |trey|: yum is just a poor design.
[02:36] <jason__> /dev/sda1: x86 boot sector, code offset 0x52, OEM-ID "NTFS    ", sectors/cluster 8, reserved sectors 0, Media descriptor 0xf8, heads 255, hidden sectors 63, dos < 4.0 BootSector (0x80)
[02:36] <|trey|> subterrific: negative... its design is very well thought out..
[02:36] <jason__> ntfs ;)
[02:36] <micX> Serenity^, I was talking about gentoo's update via rsync, not the source approach, which I also don't care for.
[02:36] <Serenity^> ah
[02:36] <Keybuk> jason__: ah, d'oh...  try with uid= and gid= :)  not user/group
[02:37] <|trey|> subterrific: it is just designed for a different format... apt is designed for dpkg, yum is designed for rpm... apt would take advantage of headers if dpkg had them...
[02:37] <Keybuk> (they have to be numeric, get them with id -u and id -g)
[02:37] <micX> |trey|, you op here bud?
[02:37] <Keybuk> |trey|: dpkg has headers.
[02:37] <|trey|> Keybuk: the data in Packages.gz doesn't count.
[02:37] <MepisBelle> More like a roving argumentative.
[02:37] <|trey|> The packages themselves don't contain information about the packages.
[02:37] <menator> Why when I have gcc installed does gcc report command not found.
[02:37] <Keybuk> |trey|: yes they do.
[02:37] <jason__> thank you keybuk
[02:37] <|trey|> MepisBelle: grr, you again
[02:37] <jason__> it worked
[02:38] <jason__> now to add it to my fstab
[02:38] <MepisBelle> |trey|: grr, you again - I had the same feeling.
[02:38] <LinuxJones> menator, did you install build-essentials ?
[02:38] <|trey|> Keybuk: how many deb's have you made?
[02:38] <micX> how do you set ignore on irc? is it /ignore |trey| ?
[02:38] <|trey|> MepisBelle: heh  :)
[02:38] <Keybuk> |trey|: heh, you so won't win that particular line of argument
[02:38] <menator> LinuxJones: no, but I have gcc 3.4 installed
[02:38] <|trey|> micX: with "all" at the end, yes
[02:39] <LinuxJones> menator, it's not in your $PATH then 
[02:39] <jsubl2> A freindly helpful channel can do more for a distro then this silly argument
[02:39] <LinuxJones> menator, gcc -v should output the version name
[02:40] <|trey|> Keybuk: Packages.gz is the only file that contains info about the deb... if you want to try to argue that, go ahead...
[02:40] <jdub> haha
[02:40] <MepisBelle> jsubl2: Yes - you are right.  But some people travel the irc channels just trolling to pick such arguments.
[02:40] <Tresnar> jsubl2: Nobody's mother's been dragged into it yet. I'd say things are running smooth <grin>
[02:40] <jdub> |trey|: i refer you to:
[02:40] <jdub> dpkg-deb -I
[02:40] <jdub> dpkg-deb -e
[02:40] <Serenity^> any ideas what I have to do to get src to "make" with automake 1.9, it refuses to do anything without 1.4,  editing the top level makefile got me a makefile.am error, ?
[02:40] <jdub> apt-cache show dpkg | grep Maintainer
[02:40] <jgeorgeson> jdub: are you the garnome jdub?
[02:41] <Keybuk> jdub: Uploaders ... the maintainer is the mailing list
[02:41] <menator> LinuxJones: is gcc installed in /usr/bin? 
[02:41] <jdub> yes
[02:41] <jgeorgeson> jdub: thanks for your awesome work on that.
[02:41] <Keybuk> actually, on Ubuntu it isn't, is it?
[02:41] <jsubl2> Tresnar, true
[02:41] <jdub> nup :)
[02:41] <jdub> jgeorgeson: thanks :)
[02:41] <jdub> jgeorgeson: it's now in the very capable hands of paul drain
[02:41] <LinuxJones> menator, ya
[02:42] <Keybuk> jdub: you gave up garnome?!
[02:42] <MepisBelle> jsubl2: Nobodies mother?  hehe ... should I?
[02:42] <jdub> Keybuk: something's gotta give ;)
[02:42] <menator> LinuxJones: maybe I'll just revert back to 3.3 by uninstalling 3.4 and installing build-essentials
[02:42] <jdub> Keybuk: paul's been kicking arse
[02:42] <jsubl2> MepisBelle, not sure
[02:42] <MepisBelle> lol
[02:42] <LinuxJones> menator, that would be the easiest thing to do :D
[02:42] <Tresnar> MepisBelle: Hahah. I'm not sure either. It'd probably be a blast ;)
[02:42] <Tresnar> Just worry for the people that join in halfway. :)
[02:42] <menator> LinuxJones: /usr/bin/gcc reports command not found. 
[02:42] <MepisBelle> Tresnar: <grin>
[02:43] <Keybuk> jdub: heh, I've moved over completely now
[02:43] <Tresnar> jdub: Send one my way, hmm?
[02:43] <menator> LinuxJones: There are too many dependencies to remove gcc3.4
[02:43] <jdub> Keybuk: this one will be a tv ;-)
[02:43] <LinuxJones> menator, you can install more than 1 version
[02:43] <jdub> Keybuk: unfortunately, my firewall is a mipsel, and i have three sparcs
[02:43] <Keybuk> I build my Debian packages in a chroot anyway these days, so doesn't really matter
[02:44] <Keybuk> jdub: never bothered with them, I just debootstrap'd a chroot to work in
[02:44] <daniels> jdub: if you bring the x300 down, I can set sbuild up on it
[02:44] <menator> LinuxJones: Yeah, just figured that out....I'm new to debian, came from gentoo.
[02:44] <jdub> Keybuk: ahr
[02:44] <jdub> daniels: ahr!
[02:44] <jdub> hey dudes
[02:44] <daniels> jdub: represent
[02:44] <LinuxJones> menator, welcome aboard :)
[02:44] <menator> LinuxJones: There we go, thx.
[02:44] <daniels> jdub: wie gehts?
[02:44] <LinuxJones> menator, :D
[02:44] <jdub> who can guess how many subscribers are on ubuntu-users?
[02:44] <jdub> daniels: gut, ja.
[02:45] <daniels> jdub: >1k?
[02:45] <jdub> daniels: no
[02:45] <Clint> 474
[02:45] <jdub> no
[02:45] <joem> have to be a lot, its very high traffic
[02:45] <LinuxJones> 666
[02:45] <jdub> higher
[02:45] <daniels> 800
[02:45] <Tresnar> MepisBelle: Just tell at me before you begin the fun. I'm gonna do idling a bit, but don't want to miss anything ;P
[02:45] <tseng> 2500
[02:45] <jdub> lower
[02:45] <Clint> 712
[02:45] <jdub> higher
[02:45] <daniels> 750
[02:45] <tseng> dammit.
[02:45] <joem> 857
[02:46] <jdub> higher
[02:46] <tseng> a jdub spanking.
[02:46] <Clint> 788
[02:46] <jdub> lower
[02:46] <daniels> 779
[02:46] <jdub> lower
[02:46] <daniels> 770
[02:46] <jdub> lower
[02:46] <GmanAFK> jdub's mum
[02:46] <daniels> 760
[02:46] <jdub> YES!
[02:46] <daniels> DING DING DING!
[02:46] <xustu> tseng   how do you suggest i go about getting NetworkManager installed      cvs  make  make install ?
[02:46] <Clint> that answers that question
[02:46] <jdub> SEVEN HUNDRED AND SIXTY UBUNTU LOVERS
[02:46] <tseng> xustu: no idea.
[02:46] <jdub> the -announce list is > 1000
[02:46] <daniels> jdub: what do I win, bob?
[02:47] <tseng> er
[02:47] <jgeorgeson> how do i get an nss lib for wins resolution?
[02:47] <daniels> tseng: don't we all?
[02:47] <tseng> if they made a stuffed version
[02:47] <tseng> id be all over that.
[02:47] <Clint> jgeorgeson: does winbind do it?
[02:47] <daniels> tseng: or if they made a vinyl doll with real bling, like Snoop
[02:47] <daniels> anyway, gotta run
[02:47] <rev_trance> just installed ubuntu. i like it, ordered 20 cds to pass out to my team at work
[02:47] <tseng> with the huge headphones
[02:47] <tseng> pimp deluxe
[02:47] <jgeorgeson> Clint: guess I'll have to check
[02:48] <jdub>  This package provides the winbindd daemon, which provides a
[02:48] <jdub>  service for the Name Service Switch capability that is present
[02:48] <jdub>  in most modern C libraries (like the GNU C Library - glibc.)
[02:48] <jdub> :-)
[02:48] <Clint> yeah, but does it do wins?
[02:49] <jgeorgeson> jdub: Clint: it is a WINS server for linux, I believe. some distributions package wins name resolution with winbind, some don't
[02:49] <|trey|> Clint: samba does that... man nmbd after you install it...
[02:49] <Clint> |trey|: read the original question
[02:50] <|trey|> Clint: I would, but I don't see it  :/
[02:50] <jgeorgeson> yeah, it's in winbind (/usr/lib/libnss_wins.so)
[02:50] <Clint> |trey|: <jgeorgeson> how do i get an nss lib for wins resolution?
[02:52] <LinuxJones> jdub, why is there no donations link on the website ?
[02:52] <LinuxJones> jdub, or maybe I am blind
[02:54] <pyramid> |trey|, why do you say that no one like gentoo...they have gobs of patches for each tarball that you download....i don't know why they don't just put the patches in the tarball to begin with
[02:54] <Keybuk> pyramid: "pristine source"
[02:55] <|trey|> pyramid: I didn't say no one liked it, I said no one here cares  :/
[02:55] <pyramid> Keybuk, yes but if the tarball needs all those patches every time...why don't they just make a clean tarball
[02:55] <rev_trance> yeah, if there was a donations link on the front page, i'd donate.
[02:55] <|trey|> pyramid: mainly because its off topic...
[02:55] <LinuxJones> rev_trance, it's a first for an OSS project that I know of :D
[02:55] <Keybuk> pyramid: it means you can download the tarball from elsewhere if the ftp site's down, means you can pick & choose which patches you actually want and also gets around some software's "modifications only distributable as patches" clauses
[02:55] <pyramid> |trey|, oh ok ..i think i understand you prefer not to be on that topic
[02:56] <stevedeo> * jdub spanks stevedeo 
[02:56] <|trey|> pyramid: I have used Gentoo before... needless to say it wasn't my ideal distro... this is #ubuntu though  :/
[02:57] <Keybuk> LinuxJones: IANAL but I'm not entirely sure we could; Canonical's a for-profit company, so I imagine we'd be heavily taxed for accepting such donations.
[02:57] <Keybuk> I really don't have a clue though, and am just guessing there
[02:57] <hazmat> |trey|, all the distros patch heavily
[02:57] <Keybuk> buy a book from the links on the side :o)
[02:57] <pyramid> |trey|, well my only beef is all those patches you have to download with each tarball and you don't even know what all the patches are doing
[02:57] <hazmat> |trey|, every source i've gotten from ubuntu comes w/ pristine tar and patches
[02:57] <|trey|> hazmat: that wasn't my argument, nor did I comment on that...
[02:57] <subterrific> Keybuk: the dontations could go into a fund for paying out bounties only
[02:58] <LinuxJones> Keybuk, your probably right. It would be nice to help out with a bit of cash for you guys
[02:58] <subterrific> or something...
[02:58] <hazmat> |trey|, its completely ot though, i agree..
[02:58] <Keybuk> pyramid: it's a fairly standard way.  both src.rpm and the debian source format use pristine tarballs and patches as well
[02:58] <Keybuk> subterrific: I can certainly raise it
[02:58] <pyramid> Keybuk, where do they get all those patches and why are they necessary
[02:58] <menator> Is there a custom respository for madwifi or ndiswrapper drivers?
[02:58] <Keybuk> pyramid: fixing bugs upstream haven't fixed yet, local/distro policy and configuration, etc.
[02:59] <smo> I'd presume karma payments for those pressed CDs would most likely be legal .. and would help with the feel-good factor
[02:59] <hazmat> or in some cases the upstream won't take them because they've got issues..
[02:59] <rev_trance> i'd like to put certain app launchers on the panel for all users (like my dialup button) what would be the easiest way to do so?
[03:00] <pyramid> Keybuk, well my point is why are all those patches necessary for each tarball...sometimes over a hundred patches are applied to just one tarball...what are they doing and why doesn't the tarball work as it is supposed to.
[03:00] <danc3> hello all, just booted Ubuntu for the first time, and I like it (I'm not a newcomer to Linux).  One question:  during the install, it never asked me to set the root password, and now how can I "su" to root in a terminal?  Is there a default root password?
[03:00] <|trey|> rev_trance: I believe you can put them in /etc/skel and have them apply to all users... man skel to be sure...
[03:00] <|trey|> eh, nm
[03:00] <joem> danc3, read the faq
[03:00] <Serenity^> sudo - centric distro, heh
[03:00] <danc3> umm, ok
[03:00] <joem> in the topic
[03:00] <|trey|> but yeah, thats supposedly /etc/skel's task  :/
[03:00] <asdf_46> danc3, sudo with the pass you put in for your user.
[03:01] <danc3> asdf_46: thanks
[03:01] <idaho45> |trey| also slackware dont patch 
[03:01] <|trey|> idaho45: I don't care, bother whoever brought that up!
[03:02] <pyramid> well i am just saying that all those vodoo patches for each tarball is a real mystery
[03:02] <Serenity^> *cough*
[03:02] <idaho45> :))
[03:02] <|trey|> At least Gentoo has some value added features!
[03:02] <menator> anyone in here use an atheros based wireless card?
[03:02] <Keybuk> pyramid: one common example would be that the tarball came from (e.g.) Solaris originally, and installs things like architecture dependant and independant files in different places to Linux standard;  the patch would modify the tarball to place things in the right place
[03:02] <Keybuk> that's the kind of patch that's hard to get upstream if upstream use Solaris
[03:02] <pyramid> Keybuk, well that makes sense.
[03:03] <Keybuk> another patch could fix a bug, it could take upstream weeks or months to actually include it, but you need it fixed today
[03:04] <Keybuk> hell, sometimes upstream disagree it's even a bug in the first place and you diverge for ever (Debian's libtool packages include a patch that upstream have refused, for example)
[03:04] <smo> An interesting move may be to find a package you use often enough to be familiar with .. "apt-get source package", and check the comments in each patch included to see what it does.  You'll start to get a feel for why we actually have package maintainers
[03:06] <xustu> fresh install and rhythmbox claims no element present to handle mime type audio/mpeg
[03:06] <Keybuk> in fact, somewhere in the compost heap I call a "TODO list" there's an entry about improving the dpkg source format to allow better separation of patches than hiding them in the single huge .diff.gz we have today
[03:06] <|trey|> xustu: check to make sure gstreamer0.8-mad is installed.
[03:06] <xustu> ok  
[03:07] <xustu> excilent
[03:07] <xustu> i heart you guys
[03:07] <TdC_WTF> think by next release ubuntu will have the NDIS/Broadcom drives being distributed with the iso? I read they were working on it in the WiKi
[03:08] <jgeorgeson> anyone know what the deal with msttcorefonts is? it says it's referenced but not available. it's in the contrib in debian, right?
[03:08] <|trey|> jgeorgeson: thats in non-free afaik... add a deb repo without 'main'...
[03:09] <Keybuk> |trey|: contrib, it's a downloader rather than a deb that actually contains the fonts
[03:09] <|trey|> jgeorgeson: so 'deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing contrib non-free' for instance..
[03:09] <|trey|> Keybuk: makes sense, sorry
[03:10] <jgeorgeson> Keybuk, |trey|: so, what's the suggestion to get it in ubuntu? download the .eb and install with dpkg?
[03:10] <|trey|> jgeorgeson: nah, add what I just said to your sources.list and install as normal
[03:10] <byronc> I just installed ubuntu for the first time and I'm seeing something weird that I can't find any information about.
[03:10] <|trey|> (after and update of course)
[03:10] <jgeorgeson> |trey|, cool, I'll check it out
[03:11] <Keybuk> there shouldn't be any/much overlap between Ubuntu main+universe and Debian contrib+non-free, so it might work ... but I'd comment/remove the lines again afterwards
[03:11] <byronc> When I login using gdm I get another mouse cursor in X and it's just the standard/ugly X
[03:11] <|trey|> byronc: and we have even less info then you, yay
[03:11] <Keybuk> byronc: laptop with external mouse and touchpad / nipple and touchpad / etc. ?
[03:11] <|trey|> Keybuk: good point... I have been keeping them uncommented though, and have seen no probs  :/
[03:11] <byronc> laptop with just a touchpad
[03:12] <|trey|> Keybuk: perhaps those things should also go into universe to make such things less risky?
[03:12] <Keybuk> |trey|: there's going to be some more stuff like that going into universe or a new component at some point
[03:12] <byronc> The extra cursor reappears if I change to another vt and then back to X also
[03:13] <|trey|> Keybuk: universe seems like its going to be very useful... shame these things aren't in effect already  :(  I'd rather get everything I want/need from an ubuntu mirror, but thats easier said then done right now  :(
[03:14] <Keybuk> byronc: does it go away if you log in, and does it move with your mouse cursor ?
[03:14] <byronc> Keybuk: It only goes away if I move a window, and it never moves with the mouse.
[03:14] <Python2121> i am also having an x problem
[03:14] <Keybuk> |trey|: heh, Ubuntu's still pre-release remember; not everything's finished yet :)
[03:14] <|trey|> byronc: what kinda touchpad is it?
[03:15] <Python2121> which no one has been able to give me insite to how to fix, i thought i would ask here
[03:15] <byronc> Keybuk: I tried removing the other mouse entry in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, but no luck
[03:15] <byronc> |trey|: I think it's a synaptics
[03:15] <rev_trance> Keybuk: you mean theres non-pre-release linux software?
[03:15] <Tresnar> |trey|: Slashdot troubles?
[03:15] <|trey|> Keybuk: I know, I have been attempting patients... its not my best suit though  :(
[03:15] <byronc> |trey|: at least it works with that driver.
[03:15] <Python2121> when i boot up, it boots gdm, and then when it starts to load gnome it stopps when that square window witht he progress of booting gnome comes up
[03:15] <|trey|> byronc: ahh... apt-cache search synaptics
[03:15] <Python2121> nothing happens, i just get that square screen
[03:15] <|trey|> bah nm
[03:16] <byronc> |trey|: xfree86-driver-synaptics is already installed and the latest version
[03:16] <Python2121> if i boot into failsafe terminal and type gnome-session it just loads that window and stopps, first it says something about /dev/something here missing and then cannot start esound
[03:17] <Python2121> and jsut stopps
[03:17] <jgeorgeson> how do I permanently configure ssid/wep settings?
[03:17] <|trey|> byronc: I think there is a kernel driver that is needed and a gnome applet that might be useful too... I dunno, set it up for my instuctor when I had him try Debian, but I don't recall what I did exactly...
[03:18] <Python2121> does anyone have any insite on my problem?
[03:18] <jgeorgeson> Python2121: can you paste the message when you did the failsafe?
[03:18] <Python2121> ok
[03:18] <Python2121> let me reboot into linux
[03:18] <Python2121> ill be back in 2 minutes
[03:18] <byronc> |trey|: The weird thing is that the touchpad works fine and one cursor follows it, it's just got the other cursor sitting in the middle of the screen that won't go away
[03:18] <jgeorgeson> just the one relevant line
[03:18] <|trey|> Python2121: do you ever see panels etc?  did you click on the splash? it should go when you do...
[03:19] <Python2121> nothing happens whne i click on the spash
[03:19] <|trey|> byronc: thats wierd, I don't even recall seeing that  :/
[03:19] <Python2121> hold on lemme boot into ubuntu
[03:19] <|trey|> I remember thinking "wow" cuz I thought touchpads would be difficult to configure in Debian  :/
[03:20] <|trey|> *coughirssi-textcough*
[03:23] <Python2121> hey guys um after installing it three times and trying everything for some unknown reason when i ask you it boots up with no problems
[03:23] <|trey|> umm, yay?  :/
[03:24] <Python2121> so sorry
[03:24] <Python2121> hehe
[03:24] <Python2121> for wasting a bit of time
[03:25] <jgeorgeson> Python2121: np
[03:25] <Python2121> hehe
[03:25] <Python2121> wow now that im into it i really like ubuntu
[03:26] <digerati_> I'm thinking about beginning to use ubuntu. I have a few questions though.
[03:26] <xustu> so whats the projected release date?
[03:26] <digerati_> I'm assuming it uses apt-get as a package manager?
[03:27] <xustu> or aptitude
[03:27] <jgeorgeson> so anyone know how to persistently configure ssid/wep settings on a wifi interface?
[03:27] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: synaptic is the default gui frontend, accessible from the menus
[03:28] <digerati_> jgeorgeson - I see. Are the packages it gets compiled from source, or are they binary?
[03:28] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: not sure i understand what you're asking, do you mean like gentoo is installed from source?
[03:29] <digerati_> jgeorgeson Aye.
[03:29] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: no
[03:29] <TdC_VgA> wireless_channel 8
[03:29] <digerati_> jgeorgeson - Could you possibly name some of the differences I might encounter between gentoo and ubuntu?
[03:29] <TdC_VgA> is that correct setting for /etc/network/interfaces?
[03:30] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: never used gentoo. ubuntu is based on debian, only it is much nicer
[03:30] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: by nicer, i mean there is much less maunal configuration to do
[03:30] <digerati_> jgeorgeson I have only seen Ubuntu with Gnome as the WM. Is it possible to use *box?
[03:32] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: probably, I see fluxbox listed
[03:32] <WW> Bugzilla experts: I would like to stop getting email about a bug that I reported.  Is that possible?
[03:32] <digerati_> jgeorgeson - D'you know how easy it would be to get my dlink card working?
[03:33] <jgeorgeson> WW: if you're email is listed in the CC list box, you might be able to remove yourself by selecting your email from that list, and checking the Remove checkbox
[03:33] <digerati_> jgeorgeson - Would I still have to build the acx100 drivers (or is there native support)?
[03:34] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: no idea. you could check on #debian-boot to see if the installer supports that NIC
[03:34] <WW> jgeorgeson: I'm not in the cc list.  It appears that it always sends email to the reporter.
[03:34] <LinuxJones> digerati_, that module is available
[03:34] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: if the installer does, than the installed system will to. if not, the installed system still might
[03:34] <digerati_> LinuxJones Awesome.
[03:35] <danbot> Anybody here use AMD64 Ubuntu?
[03:35] <jgeorgeson> WW: maybe you could post a comment asking for the reporter field to be changed
[03:35] <WW> jgeorgeson: Yup, something like that was my next step.  
[03:35] <danbot> Because I just got an AMD64 and I would like to know other peoples experiences before I install it
[03:37] <jgeorgeson> so if i'm going to add a marillat repo, do i add the testing one?
[03:37] <digerati_> jgeorgeson - what version of Xorg does Ubuntu use?
[03:37] <digerati_> and is it possible to upgrade
[03:37] <ioslipstream> is there a FAQ somewhere for .wmv or .rm video playback in ubuntu?
[03:37] <whiprush> jgeorgeson: I'm using the unstable one with no problem
[03:37] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: it uses xfree86 for no, next release should be changing to xorg
[03:37] <digerati_> ioslipstream - use mplayer?
[03:37] <digerati_> jgeorgeson - Ah.
[03:37] <danbot> I believe mPlayer does WMV
[03:38] <digerati_> Indeed it does
[03:38] <jgeorgeson> danbot: so does totem-xine with the mplayer codecs
[03:38] <Charon79m> I'm trying to compile a new kernel with support for my Lucent WinModem.  Anyone have time/knowlege to assist?
[03:39] <danbot> I believe so but I would advise that you check the faqs for xine and totem to make sure
[03:39] <ioslipstream> yeah, i grabbed the codecs, or so i though... totem will play, but the sound is messed up and the video is choppy
[03:39] <ioslipstream> is there a certain set of codecs i should get?
[03:39] <danbot> Totem is my fav. video player
[03:39] <ioslipstream> mplayer plays the video with good sound, but choppy video
[03:40] <digerati_> The only thing that prevents me from moving to Ubuntu asap, is 1) school tomorrow, and 2) 8 gigs of MP3s
[03:40] <jgeorgeson> i download the qt, wmv, and rp codecs from http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/codecs.html
[03:40] <danbot> I have tomorrow off from school :)
[03:40] <ioslipstream> digerati_: why do the mp3's stop you from moving?
[03:40] <jgeorgeson> install them in /usr/lib/win32
[03:40] <digerati_> ioslipstream - A really slow cd burner ;)
[03:40] <Charon79m> Looking to compile a kernel with support for my Lucent WinModem.  I've got insturctions, but no experience with this.  Anyone willing to assist?
[03:40] <ioslipstream> digerati_: ahh, heh
[03:41] <jgeorgeson> digerati_: you can access them as a network share, or mounted vfat or ntfs if it is a local drive
[03:42] <LinuxJones> night all sleepy time
[03:42] <lemist> has anyone else had a problem with the installer locking up after the first hardware detection?  I just tried the cd in another computer and it installed perfectly.  The one its locking up on is an old Gateway, any ideas?
[03:42] <digerati_> jgeorgeson It is a local drive :) A local drive that will be formatted.
[03:44] <Charon79m> I'm trying to compile a new kernel with support for my Lucent WinModem.  Anyone have time/knowlege to assist?
[03:45] <pyramid> lemist, this is the problem i was referring to earlier...it seems that the only distros we can make are debian based and they don't work on all hardware....gentoo refuses to give proper documentation on catalyst and how to use it to make a competing distro.
[03:45] <tseng> I can use catalyst just fine
[03:45] <joem> same here
[03:46] <t35t0r> anyone using amd64 i've made #ubuntu-amd64
[03:46] <joem> and there is documentation on it
[03:46] <Kosai> t35t0r: What's the point?
[03:46] <pyramid> tseng, where did you get the documentation on part2 of catalyst and how to combine it with squashfs,mkisofs,chroot,pivot_root, etc...to make a competing distro
[03:46] <t35t0r> because not everything works on amd64
[03:46] <t35t0r> as on x86
[03:47] <jh|work> does ubuntu 64 have multilib support?
[03:47] <pyramid> tseng, i have been watching the docs for a long time and each time it says documentation will be written later.
[03:47] <tseng> pyramid: see #gentoo-releng for that
[03:47] <tseng> youre way off here
[03:48] <pyramid> tseng, i don't think we are way off...making distros is very very important
[03:48] <Charon79m> Does anyone have any experience with compiling additional driver support into the kernel?
[03:48] <tseng> pyramid: #gentoo-releng is about making the distro. youre in the wrong stop complaining to the wrong people
[03:48] <TdC_VgA> how do i tell if a module is loaded correctly?
[03:49] <TdC_VgA> i added it to /etc/modules, but can i tell if it's loaded?
[03:49] <joem> lsmod |grep module name
[03:49] <TdC_VgA> cool
[03:49] <FX|Laptop> Hello
[03:49] <pyramid> tseng, i am not complaining..i am just stating a fact...i have no emotions about it whatsoever.
[03:49] <FX|Laptop> Is anyone else having trouble with gcc+
[03:49] <TdC_VgA> ugh, i think this NDIS driver is fried..
[03:50] <Charon79m> I have an Armada E500 with a Lucent WinModem integrated.
[03:50] <TdC_VgA> it shows a 100% signal with the wifi radio disabled.. heh
[03:50] <pyramid> tseng, the fact is that debian lets everybody make debian based distros...but gentoo has yet to do this
[03:50] <tseng> pyramid, debian has a 10 year head start
[03:51] <Charon79m> I could be wrong, but isn't Gentoo a debian distro that compiles itself to your system?
[03:51] <tseng> now get back on topic please
[03:51] <t35t0r> hahah
[03:51] <t35t0r> Charon79m, far from it
[03:51] <pyramid> Charon79m, no gentoo is not debian based...debian is critically dependent on isolinux...but gentoo does not use this approach
[03:51] <WW> FX|Laptop: What do you mean by "trouble"?
[03:52] <FX|Laptop> Well I tried to compile a theme and I get a gcc+ instanity error.
[03:52] <pyramid> Charon79m, look carefully at the file structure on a gentoo live cd and a debian live cd or knoppix live cd and you will see what i mean
[03:52] <FX|Laptop> insantity*
[03:52] <subterrific> FX|Laptop: install build-essentials
[03:52] <FX|Laptop> ah.. ok
[03:52] <lemist> pyramid, isn't catalyst an ati driver?
[03:53] <pyramid> lemist, yes and no....i am referring to the secret stuff that gentoo uses to make live bootable distros
[03:53] <TdC_VgA> yeah this NDIS stuff definitely not working heh
[03:53] <lemist> ah
[03:53] <TdC_VgA> keeps showing 100% when theres no radio on
[03:53] <FX|Laptop> E: Couldn't find package build-essentials
[03:53] <lemist> why would catalyst affect installations on old old gateways?
[03:53] <TheConArtist> how much has this channel increasesd since the slashdot article?
[03:53] <jgeorgeson> pyramid: what's wrong with what mepis and knoppix se?
[03:54] <WW> FX|Laptop: build-essential
[03:54] <pyramid> lemist, because gentoo is not tied to isolinux
[03:54] <jgeorgeson> TheConArtist: I'm here because of it
[03:54] <TheConArtist> same :p
[03:54] <TheConArtist> i bet he is
[03:54] <pengo> me too
[03:54] <FX|Laptop> That works, thanks ww
[03:55] <hiro> any ubuntu developers around?
[03:55] <FX|Laptop> Is there a way of getting away of installing the cd when installing some apps?
[03:55] <WW> FX|Laptop: Say again?
[03:55] <pyramid> i did look into #gentoo-releng but no one says anything there
[03:56] <jgeorgeson> FX|Laptop: sudo vi /etc/apt/sources.list, comment out the cd line, uncomment the http one(s)
[03:56] <FX|Laptop> Well it asked me to install the Ubuntu cd in order to install the app
[03:56] <FX|Laptop> Ok thanks jgeorgeson
[03:56] <jgeorgeson> FX|Laptop: if you only want the ubuntu stuff, uncomment the ones without universe. if you want a bunch of non-ubuntu stuff, uncomment the ones with universe
[03:57] <FX|Laptop> yea I already have that done.
[03:57] <WW> FX|Laptop: What jgeorgeson said; or Settings->Repositories in Syaptic
[03:57] <WW> Synaptic*
[03:57] <jgeorgeson> WW: yeah, that's much simpler
[03:57] <pengo> i've read a bit about ubuntu.. lwn and slashdot.. but apart from talk of who's working on it, i'm yet to see a list of features.. what's actually different ?
[03:58] <q2> Whats a good windowz emulator?????
[03:58] <FX|Laptop> ok thanks WW
[03:58] <jgeorgeson> not wine
[03:58] <Charon79m> Needing help with compiling support for my modem in the kernel.  Anyone willing to help?
[03:58] <pyramid> pengo, well ubuntu and dragonflybsd are trying to get things up to date
[03:59] <idaho45> seems ubuntu = debian sid + security patches
[03:59] <jgeorgeson> Charon79m, is it a module you need to download 3rd party source from to compile against the kernel source?
[03:59] <LeeColleton> so when I click on a mailto: link in firefox, I get nothing.  Is this a feature?
[03:59] <pyramid> well ubuntu is tied to debian as is knoppix,slackware,damn small linux,etc...because gentoo won't release critical information
[04:00] <joem> pyramid, let it go already or go somewhere else with it...and plenty of people have figure out how to use catalyst fine
[04:00] <FX|Laptop> Thanks for the help guys. One last question is anyone else having trouble with xmms?
[04:01] <jgeorgeson> FX|Laptop: be more specific
[04:01] <pyramid> joem, i don't think they have learned how to use catalyst...i don't see that many competing distros
[04:01] <digerati_> Woot @ Just got 17" LCD :)
[04:01] <FX|Laptop> libmikmod.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[04:01] <FX|Laptop> Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/generic/dl-tls.c: 72: _dl_next_tls_modid: Assertion `result <= _rtld_local._dl_tls_max_dtv_idx' failed!
[04:01] <joem> maybe because it takes more to create a distro then knowing how to use a live cd tool..
[04:01] <jgeorgeson> pyramid: maybe nobody actually wants to build a competing distro on top of gentoo
[04:01] <FX|Laptop> eeeeeeeeeeek sorry!!!!
[04:01] <hiro> hey, is there actually a recommended way to compile a custom kernel?
[04:02] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, well i certainly do... i would like to build a hurd approach
[04:02] <Charon79m> jgeorgenson, That is correct.
[04:02] <jgeorgeson> pyramid: did you look at the places everyone else already mentioned for catalyst documentation?
[04:02] <Charon79m> jgeorgenson, I have the instruction; however, I'm a little lost...
[04:03] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, yes i went to the url and nothing but garbage is there...no secrets on how to tie mkisofs,isolinux,squashfs,kudzu,etc...all together to make a competing distro.
[04:03] <jgeorgeson> Charon79m, the kernel source in ubuntu is the package named linux-source, install that, and then when your 3rd party driver asks where the kernel source is, point it to whereever linux-source goes
[04:03] <jgeorgeson> pyramid: then but the person who put those docs up
[04:03] <jgeorgeson> er, but => bug
[04:04] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, all they put up is misleading garbage
[04:04] <Charon79m> jgeorgeson, thanks.  I'll give it a shot.
[04:04] <joem> pyramid, if you can't figure it out, nobody wants to use anything you are in charge of anyways
[04:04] <jgeorgeson> pyramid: sorry if that sounded curt, but i'm tired of seeing this off-topic argument
[04:05] <pyramid> joem, that is your opinion....several people around here want to see these 30gigs of binaries go to work...but i need to make a distro for them.
[04:05] <WW> FX|Laptop: Sounds similar to this: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=535
[04:06] <joem> pyramid, then start a chan for it, but don't flood this chan with issues you have about it
[04:06] <pyramid> joem, well that would seem to be a fair statement...i have to respect that statement..it is not derogatory but rather unambiguously postulated
[04:08] <FX|Laptop> I looked for that bug report last night and couldn't find it. Although it was my first time looking at any "bugzilla" site. Thanks.
[04:10] <Se7h> a simple syntax do burn a iso image?
[04:11] <zephyr> hmm.. how do i enable mp3 encoding in soundjuicer?
[04:11] <ioslipstream> you need the gst-lame plugin
[04:12] <jgeorgeson> iosplipstream: how do i enable song title info from streams in rhythmbox?
[04:12] <ioslipstream> jgeorgeson: i wish i knew, that is bugging me... no pun intended
[04:13] <jgeorgeson> iosplipstream: it works in xmms
[04:13] <LeeColleton> How do I configure Firefox to start a new message with Evolution via mailto: ? 
[04:13] <ioslipstream> yeah, i know, but xmms handles that stuff through its mp3 decoder i believe
[04:14] <jgeorgeson> LeeColleton: if you go to Computer->Desktop Preferences->Preferred Applications, is evolution listed as the default mail app?
[04:15] <zephyr> hmm.. i guess theres no gst-lame for ppc
[04:16] <WW> Se7h: This doesn't really answer your question, but using Nautilus worked for me. Right-click on the file, select Write to Disc...
[04:16] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: yes, but it's set to "Custom mail reader" : evolution-1.6 %s
[04:17] <LeeColleton> I haven't twiddled this option yet.
[04:17] <ioslipstream> zephyr: there isn't for x86 either, you have to get it from an alternate repository if you really want it
[04:17] <LeeColleton> I mean evolution-2.0, not 1.6
[04:17] <Se7h> WW is it able to burn a iso image?
[04:17] <jgeorgeson> LeeCollection: k, i was really confused there
[04:17] <WW> Se7h: Yes
[04:17] <zephyr> ioslipstream, where is this alternate rep?
[04:17] <ioslipstream> Se7h: you can burn iso images with nautilus
[04:18] <Se7h> oh
[04:18] <Se7h> though it couldn't
[04:18] <Se7h> ok
[04:18] <Se7h> thanks
[04:18] <ioslipstream> zephyr: not sure... i haven't done it yet... but i'm sure a google might point you in the right direction... or someone in here might know
[04:18] <jgeorgeson> LeeCollection: any request to open a mailto: link should launch that then, what happens if you type 'mailto:bob@bob.com' into the Run Application dialog? 
[04:18] <jgeorgeson> (Applications->Run Application)
[04:19] <ioslipstream> zephyr: i think the debian unstable repositories have it though
[04:19] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: I switched it to "Select a mail reader" : Evolution Mail Reader and now it works
[04:19] <jgeorgeson> LeeCollection, interesting. on a related note, it would be nice if the mozilla-thunderbird package added itself to that list
[04:19] <ioslipstream> zephyr: just make sure you disable them after getting the plugin
[04:19] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: I've had my name mangled worse than that, but you can just do Lee<TAB> and it will auto complete
[04:20] <zephyr> right
[04:20] <jgeorgeson> LeeColleton, sorry, and thanks for the tip
[04:20] <Se7h> erm
[04:20] <Se7h> where in hell is gftp ?
[04:20] <Se7h> last install it was here...
[04:21] <digerati_> 'updatedb' 'locate gftp'
[04:21] <LeeColleton> Se7h: Applications > Internet
[04:21] <LeeColleton> or <ALT>+<F2> gftp <ENTER>
[04:21] <jgeorgeson> Se7h: dpkg -l gftp
[04:21] <Se7h> LeeColleton that i know
[04:21] <Se7h> but its not on the menu
[04:21] <Se7h> either by command
[04:21] <Se7h> No packages found matching gftp.
[04:21] <Se7h> o.0
[04:22] <Se7h> well....apt-get then
[04:22] <noda> Add universe to your sources.list
[04:22] <noda> Oh, it's not in universe :)
[04:23] <noda> apt-get install gftp-gtk
[04:23] <tdc_vga1> howdy
[04:23] <jgeorgeson> noda, sudo apt-get ...
[04:23] <tdc_vga1> anyone have gdesklets working?
[04:23] <noda> Right, sudo apt-get... :)
[04:24] <tdc_vga1> i can launch a gdesklet, but it sure doesnt show up heh
[04:24] <Se7h> xish
[04:24] <Se7h> this ubuntu install went bad i guess
[04:24] <Se7h> so many libs missing...
[04:24] <noda> Se7h: You mean your desktop doesn't start up?
[04:24] <tdc_vga1> eek
[04:24] <tdc_vga1> i had to type gdesklets
[04:24] <tdc_vga1> hehe
[04:24] <Se7h> noda no that is ok
[04:24] <tdc_vga1> then like 90 of them just popped up.. insteresting
[04:27] <larrya> hi.  silly question but init 3 doesn't seem to cause a run level change.
[04:27] <jgeorgeson> i don't see a file association preference applet (to configure MIME types), and k3b didn't give itself a menu entry
[04:27] <larrya> is there a trick to change run levels in ubuntu?
[04:27] <zephyr> nope.. no gst-lame in unstable either
[04:28] <tdc_vga1> any reason you dont use the normal firefox icon?
[04:28] <Darknite> Hey I have a wuestion
[04:28] <Darknite> question even
[04:28] <Darknite> how do you enable sshd on ubuntu
[04:28] <noda> sudo apt-get install openssh-server
[04:29] <Darknite> thanks noda
[04:29] <zephyr> well this is a bitch.. i wanna rip music for my portable mp3 player.. ogg aint gonna work..hehe
[04:29] <noda> np
[04:29] <joem> zephyr, find an rpm and usa alien
[04:29] <Darknite> zephyr i bet if you look at normal debian sources you might find something to help you
[04:30] <noda> RPM? Erm. Why not just use a .deb?
[04:30] <TheMonoTone> nautilus samba browsing is slow
[04:30] <TheMonoTone> is there another good app for smb browsing?
[04:30] <noda> TheMonoTone: But copying files is *fast* :)
[04:30] <Darknite> lol
[04:30] <noda> TheMonoTone: gnome-terminal, using smbmount :)
[04:30] <TheMonoTone> noda, sounds good to me
[04:30] <noda> copying files with Nautilus is way faster than with Windows :)
[04:31] <noda> Hrm. It's not slow for me...
[04:31] <Darknite> btw I am a linux unix admin and a long time gentoo and redhat user. I have to tell you that this is one awesome distro. I just installed it on my kids computer
[04:31] <noda> I just connected to my other computer using Samba, and it's lightning fast. Might as well be the same computer
[04:32] <TheMonoTone> which of the little samba utils lets you "view" the shares on a computer
[04:32] <TheMonoTone> its not net is it?
[04:32] <noda> Darknite: I know eh? :) It's the distro to end all distros
[04:32] <absurdhero> TheMonoTone: nautilus :p
[04:32] <Darknite> Sweet easy install
[04:32] <noda> TheMonoTone: Computer -> Network -> Windows Network -> [computer] 
[04:32] <Darknite> I had a 11 yo do it
[04:32] <TheMonoTone> absurdhero, nautilus just sits there
[04:32] <noda> Erm, with the workgroup in there too, of course
[04:32] <absurdhero> well thats not good
[04:32] <TheMonoTone> it chugs away
[04:32] <TheMonoTone> or it'll fine my workgroup
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> but when I try to browse it
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> nothing
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> it gives me some error
[04:33] <noda> TheMonoTone: Other way is Ctrl-L -> smb://[IP address] 
[04:33] <noda> TheMonoTone: What's the error?
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> I'll tell you in a couple of minutes
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> waiting for nautilus to load the windows network
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> then the workgroup
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> then I'll know again :-)
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> oh wait!
[04:33] <TheMonoTone> it works now
[04:33] <noda> I gotta say, Ubuntu is the first distro to get samba *right* for me. I haven't had any problems with it at all :)
[04:34] <TheMonoTone> I don't get it, but alright :-)
[04:34] <Darknite> one more thing how do I enable the ntp client 
[04:34] <noda> Darknite: sudo apt-get install ntpdate (I think)
[04:34] <noda> Oh. Nope :)
[04:34] <TheMonoTone> oh shite! this is sweet now that it works
[04:34] <TheMonoTone> a little slow though
[04:35] <Darknite> ok and I assume that it uses the redhat style scripts to make them start at boot
[04:35] <noda> Darknite: Red Hat didn't invent init scripts...
[04:35] <TheMonoTone> that was a at&t thing I believe
[04:36] <noda> Darknite: Anyway, ntpdate runs at boot time to synchronize your clock. I dunno what that thing in "Time and date settings" is for
[04:36] <noda> 'cuz it doesn't do anything...
[04:36] <Darknite> noda you are correct about redhat not inventing init scripts
[04:37] <TheMonoTone> gnome needs to implement a "close all" if they want nautilus to work in spacial mode like this
[04:37] <Darknite> still difrent than rc-update add <service> default
[04:37] <Darknite> in gentoo
[04:37] <TheMonoTone> Darknite, whatever man, this distro blows anything else out of the water for me personally
[04:38] <noda> TheMonoTone: Ctrl-Shift-W
[04:38] <TheMonoTone> thanks noda, your a helpful fellow :-)
[04:38] <noda> TheMonoTone: Also, hold down shift while double-clicking something to hide the current window while opening the new one
[04:38] <Darknite> I agree but like I said I have been using gentoo for almost 4 years now
[04:38] <noda> TheMonoTone: Ctrl-Shift-W actually doesn't close the *current* window... just all the ones underneath
[04:38] <TheMonoTone> cool
[04:38] <TheMonoTone> works for me
[04:38] <noda> Darknite: In Debian (and Ubuntu I assume) you have to use update-rc.d. It has a funky syntax.
[04:38] <joem> middle mouse button will close the previous window when opening a new one
[04:39] <Darknite> thanks noda
[04:39] <joem> 1 or 2 clicks depending on the behavior settings
[04:39] <jgeorgeson> TheMonoTone, noda: when I try to browse another machine on my lan (smb://) it says i don't have permission
[04:39] <noda> jgeorgeson: That means you don't have permission :)
[04:39] <jgeorgeson> odd since i already manually mounted a share from the command line
[04:39] <noda> jgeorgeson: Is the other machine Windows XP?
[04:39] <jgeorgeson> noda: 2k, and my username is the same
[04:39] <TheMonoTone> jgeorgeson, nautilus acts funky for me sometimes when trying to browse
[04:40] <noda> TheMonoTone: What's it do?
[04:40] <TheMonoTone> I already told you, sometimes it stalls like crazy
[04:40] <TheMonoTone> and then gives me some bs about how it can't find anything in the workgroup
[04:40] <TheMonoTone> but if I do net lookup whatever, I get an ip
[04:40] <TheMonoTone> I dunno, it still needs a little work, but its on its way
[04:41] <noda> Ah, I figured out the time thing. Run: sudo apt-get install ntp-simple
[04:41] <noda> TheMonoTone: Heh. I've seen Windows XP stall like crazy too :)
[04:41] <TheMonoTone> noda, true :-)
[04:41] <noda> Everyone should just use WebDAV and... erm... whatever that Rendezvous technology is called :)
[04:41] <noda> That's how we'll share in GNOME 2.10 :)
[04:42] <noda> Same as Mac :)
[04:42] <laander> what is the best way to install the nvidia drivers?  the nvidia installer gives a warning when running the installer in run level 1, but X is running in all other run levels.
[04:42] <TheMonoTone> the whole lanman/smb protocol blows until you get in to the absolute newest versions with ad running (then you have a db and dns of boxen)
[04:42] <TheMonoTone> even then...
[04:42] <jgeorgeson> noda, i can't even browse this machine (just restarted samba, so i know it's running)
[04:42] <noda> laander: Switch to the normal runlevel, and then "/etc/init.d/gdm stop"
[04:42] <TheMonoTone> jgeorgeson, trying going in console and doing net lookup boxname
[04:43] <TheMonoTone> and then trying again, that seemed to spark life in to the browsing for me
[04:43] <jgeorgeson> TheMonoTone, no luck
[04:44] <noda> jgeorgeson: Open up a Nautilus window, hit Ctrl-L and type "smb://127.0.0.1"
[04:44] <jgeorgeson> TheMonoTone, no big deal though, i haven't found a single app than can launch a file from the smb:// listing
[04:45] <jgeorgeson> noda, no error that way, but it doesn't list anything either. i'm looking at my smb.conf as i expected to see my home dir
[04:45] <tseng> luca!
[04:45] <noda> jgeorgeson: That's where my expertise ends. I loathe smb.conf. I wish it would disappear entirely from every computer at the same time, so they'd write something useable :)
[04:46] <lemist> did anyone figure out why the ubuntu install could lock up on an old gateway?  i walked away from irc for about an hour so I missed any messages
[04:46] <jgeorgeson> system-config-samba on fedora is pretty functional
[04:47] <noda> jgeorgeson: Try getting Samba to play nice with Active Directory. Took me an entire morning, and at the end it was just like 2 lines of configuration that I had to change :P
[04:47] <noda> Pretty cool though. Samba has a better SMB implementation than Windows :)
[04:48] <Darknite> have you done speed tests on that
[04:48] <jgeorgeson> noda, yeah, but windows uses CIFS these days, which is better than SMB i thought
[04:48] <Darknite> I have it is over twice as fast
[04:48] <noda> Darknite: Not actual benchmarks, but copying many small files from Windows to Windows is around half the speed of Samba to Samba
[04:48] <luca> tseng!
[04:48] <Darknite> we did at the office about a year ago
[04:48] <Darknite> samba is way faster
[04:49] <Darknite> that is why our main file servers are linux
[04:49] <noda> jgeorgeson: I dunno, I like to live in a Windows-less world. Not at work now, don't need it :)
[04:49] <noda> Darknite: Ditto where I worked this summer :)
[04:50] <topgun601> ok im runnig ububtu warthog with the kernel verson 2.8 how do i get the kernel src? 
[04:50] <noda> Not as much the *speed* for us as... the fact that it saves license fees.
[04:50] <Darknite> noda: the only reason I have windows around is games
[04:50] <jgeorgeson> i never saw an option for 'hardware clock uses GMT'. my clock is 5 hours slow
[04:50] <noda> topgun601: There's no such thing as kernel 2.8.
[04:50] <Darknite> I think he means 2.6.8
[04:50] <topgun601> er 2.6.8
[04:50] <jgeorgeson> topgun601: the package name is linux-source
[04:50] <lemist> my install locks up after it runs the first hardware detection (where it says "Detecting hardware for cd-rom drives")
[04:50] <lemist> have any of you seen this problem before?
[04:50] <gumleef> just installed warty, are there debs for the kernel sources for the stock kernel?
[04:51] <jgeorgeson> lemist: can you access any of the other terminals to see if there is apertinent error message?
[04:51] <noda> topgun601: sudo apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.8.1... but it doesn't seem to be there, there's only 2.6.7 for me :)
[04:51] <crimsun> gumleef: not stock, but there are for ubuntu kernels. linux-source-2.6.8.1
[04:51] <noda> Oh, linux-source? That explains it :)
[04:51] <lemist> jgeorgeson: how would I do that? its just at a blank blue screen
[04:51] <gumleef> no, there isnt
[04:52] <noda> lemist: Do you see anything if you press Alt-F3?
[04:52] <gumleef> for the kernel that comes with 2.6.8.1-somethign
[04:52] <jgeorgeson> lemist: what noda said, f4 and f5 too
[04:52] <noda> gumleef: Why would you want a deb for the stock kernel? Just download the tarball.
[04:52] <jgeorgeson> gumleef: linux-source is the kernel source package
[04:52] <lemist> noda, jgeorgeson: nope, none of those do anything
[04:52] <noda> lemist: What about Ctrl-Alt-Sysreq-H? :P
[04:53] <lemist> noda: what's that do?
[04:53] <topgun601> ok trying that
[04:53] <Darknite> Well guys thanks for the help
[04:53] <Darknite> I am going to get some sleep
[04:53] <Darknite> night
[04:53] <noda> lemist: "Magic Sysreq" is a kernel hack which lets you do stuff even after Linux has crashed -- like sync the disk, kill all processes...
[04:53] <danbot> What is that one prog. that looks like the Mac OS dock?
[04:53] <lemist> ah
[04:53] <lemist> noda: nope, does nothing
[04:54] <noda> lemist: I dunno, it seems like something that *may* be installed on a rescue kernel, and it's really a last resort :)
[04:54] <lemist> its still stuck on that blue screen
[04:54] <noda> lemist: Your hardware sucks :)
[04:54] <nitin> has anyone got ATI radeon 9700 PRO working completly? (3d and all)
[04:54] <noda> danbot: StartSomethingOrOther, a gdesklet
[04:54] <noda> StarterBar?
[04:54] <lemist> haha, its a 99 gateway that I got from sold old folks down the street for fixing their computer :P
[04:54] <jgeorgeson> lemist: i would file a bug report in bugzilla, with a complete list of hardware installed, including firmware versions if you know them
[04:54] <gumleef> i want kernel headers that match the currently runnig kernel so i can install vmware...
[04:54] <WX> hi
[04:55] <gumleef> there is no package for that
[04:55] <danbot> thx noda
[04:55] <gumleef> it is _NOT_ on the cd
[04:55] <WX> im trying to install Ubuntu, but when it gets to install welcome page (country selection), my usb keyboard does not work
[04:55] <noda> gumleef: sudo apt-get install kernel-headers-`uname -r`
[04:55] <WX> is there a way to get it to work?
[04:55] <jgeorgeson> gumleef: linux-headers
[04:55] <digerati_> Ubuntu torrent is smokin!
[04:55] <lemist> jgeorgeson:  Hm :\ alright
[04:55] <gumleef> noda, does not work
[04:55] <nitin> has anyone got ATI radeon 9700 PRO working completly? (3d and all)
[04:55] <noda> WX: Yes, in your BIOS there should be a setting called "USB keyboard". It might be on, it might be off... switch it to whatever it isn't :)
[04:56] <nitin> anyone know how to get the ATI RADEON 9700 PRO working?
[04:56] <noda> gumleef: What do you mean, 'does not work?"
[04:56] <WX> noda: no option in my Shuttle SN95G5 (looked really damn hard for it)
[04:56] <noda> WX: Strange. Tried unplugging and re-plugging?
[04:56] <WX> i'll do that next
[04:56] <noda> WX: Your best bet would be a temporary PS/2 keyboard, I suppose :)
[04:57] <gumleef> noda, no such package found
[04:57] <nitin> anyone know how to get the ATI RADEON 9700 PRO working? cmon someone has to have this card:)
[04:57] <noda> WX: I use a Logitech wireless keyboard for my computer (nForce2 motherboard) and I've never had any problems whatsoever... on Debian, anyway
[04:57] <topgun601> nitin it's not fun trying to get my 9800 pro to work now
[04:57] <jgeorgeson> gumleef: the package is named linux-headers
[04:57] <WX> noda: Logitech MX Duo here
[04:57] <noda> (oh, except when I rmmodded usb-uhci)
[04:57] <nitin> :(
[04:57] <noda> Oh, linux-headers. Damn, sorry :)
[04:57] <nitin> is ubuntu even considering getitng those cards wokring properly?
[04:57] <noda> (erm, uhci-hcd, that is...)
[04:58] <jgeorgeson> noda, that name keeps catching you
[04:58] <noda> nitin: Have you read the FAQ entry?
[04:58] <noda> I like the name change. Makes sense, since Debian supports like 3 kernels...
[04:58] <HrdwrBoB> ubuntu can resize ext2 can't it
[04:58] <gumleef> 'aptitude search linux-headers' does not show my current kernel, many others however
[04:58] <toyowheelin> nitin, its even more fun getting a 9800 woring on a 64bit computer 
[04:59] <toyowheelin> :)
[04:59] <noda> gumleef: Have you tried just blindly typing "sudo apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r`"? :)
[04:59] <gumleef> noda, yes
[04:59] <noda> gumleef: After a "sudo apt-get update"?
[04:59] <noda> Damn :)
[04:59] <toyowheelin> *working
[04:59] <hiro> having a problem with synaptic, i enabled universe and now it shows no packages at all in synaptic
[04:59] <noda> gumleef: What *is* your kernel?
[04:59] <WX> im going to have to get a ps2 adapter to get it installed tomorrow
[04:59] <noda> HrdwrBoB: Yes
[04:59] <tom__> Ubuntu is sweet, but I cannto get java installed
[04:59] <gumleef> uname -r: 2.6.8.1-2-386
[04:59] <nitin> guys i really dont care aobut how fun it is, anyone mind giving me the proper procedure to get it up on my 32 bit computer:)?
[05:00] <jgeorgeson> gumleef, have you disabled the cd apt source in favor of the http sources? if not i would recommend doing so
[05:00] <noda> hiro: Do a "refresh"
[05:00] <hiro> noda: i did
[05:00] <HrdwrBoB> yeah though so :D
[05:00] <noda> tom__: Apparently java-package will be in universe soon
[05:00] <gumleef> jgeorgeson, no
[05:00] <noda> nitin: Look at the wiki
[05:00] <WX> im just curious... anyone here dislike the name, ubuntu?
[05:00] <tom__> that would be nice
[05:00] <digerati_> what kernel version is packaged with ?the current ubuntu release 
[05:00] <noda> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org
[05:00] <gumleef> jgeorgeson, havent touched the apt configs
[05:00] <noda> Or was it the FAQ...
[05:00] <HrdwrBoB> WX do you know what it means?
[05:00] <WX> HrdwrBoB: yes
[05:00] <hiro> noda: it says 12730 packages at the bottom, but they don't show up
[05:01] <WX> im just curious
[05:01] <noda> WX: I like the name, but it sounds a bit strange if you want to convince your boss to use it, I suppose
[05:01] <WX> the way it sounds
[05:01] <jgeorgeson> it might not e on the cd, and apt-cache shows a linux-headers-2.6.8.1-3-386, but not -2
[05:01] <noda> Then again, bosses go for "red hat" so maybe I'm just not used to it enough :)
[05:01] <WX> my gf said... ew i don't want that... what a wierd name
[05:01] <WX> weird
[05:01] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[05:01] <noda> hiro: I dunno, I don't use that program :)
[05:01] <HrdwrBoB> mine said " don't touch my computer, it isn't currently broken!"
[05:01] <WX> haha
[05:01] <noda> WX: Ask her if she'd prefer Red Hat :P
[05:01] <hiro> noda: is there any way to search in aptitude?
[05:02] <noda> HrdwrBoB: wofl
[05:02] <noda> HrdwrBoB: *rofl
[05:02] <encKe`> LOL
[05:02] <noda> hiro: I don't use aptitude either. apt-cache search [search terms] 
[05:02] <encKe`> if it aint broke....fix it till it is
[05:02] <jgeorgeson> noda, i would imagine most bosses won't like ubuntu on a production system because you don't get the gauranteed life cycle 
[05:02] <encKe`> mine says
[05:02] <WX> haha
[05:02] <WX> she thinks it's a cute name
[05:02] <WX> she likes Novell Linux
[05:02] <nitin> noda its not in the wiki
[05:02] <nitin> cant find it at least
[05:02] <WX> and not SuSE by that
[05:03] <topgun601> wx suse?
[05:03] <noda> jgeorgeson: You do. You get 18 months support, guaranteed 6 month release cycle. That's pretty sweet
[05:03] <HrdwrBoB> half the boxes here are running debian unstable on production servers
[05:03] <noda> nitin: It's definitely either on the website or the wiki.
[05:03] <jgeorgeson> noda, red hat enterprise is 5 years
[05:03] <HrdwrBoB> I daresay ubuntu is a significant improvement on that
[05:03] <thaw> has anyone ordered the free cds from the ubuntu site?
[05:03] <noda> HrdwrBoB: Well, I'm more comfortable with Debian unstable simply because it's a server and Ubuntu is undergoing very rapid development and Debian isn't :)
[05:03] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[05:04] <noda> jgeorgeson: That's nicer, I agree :)
[05:04] <HrdwrBoB> well I will wait before installing it on a server
[05:04] <HrdwrBoB> but I love it for desktops
[05:04] <WX> topgun601: no the soon-to-come Novell Linux
[05:04] <WX> topgun601: she used it at Linux World San Fran
[05:04] <jgeorgeson> noda, didn't know ubuntu releases were 18 month support. i think that's better than fedora releases
[05:04] <micX> noda, debian unstable is a server; debian unstable isn't undergoing rapid development. *boggle*
[05:05] <noda> jgeorgeson: Ubuntu is what Fedora was meant to be but never will be :)
[05:05] <topgun601> hope they it works
[05:05] <topgun601> er hope it works
[05:05] <noda> micX: Yeah, I never said it makes *sense* but it's true :)
[05:05] <noda> micX: Not compared to ubuntu, anyway
[05:05] <HrdwrBoB> micX: well, debian isn't going through MAJOR development
[05:05] <jgeorgeson> sweet, only one hour left of downloading updates
[05:05] <HrdwrBoB> it's like .. same stuff only.. later versions
[05:05] <noda> micX: Debian is currently going through a "freezing" cycle.
[05:05] <nitin> noda mind showing me a link, no where to be found:)
[05:06] <micX> noda, *currently*, yes, there is still substantial updates rolling through unstable.
[05:06] <wm_eddie> Novell linux 1 isn't going to be anything that great.  From what I've seen/read so far.
[05:06] <jgeorgeson> nitin, you're looking for an install guide?
[05:06] <noda> nitin: I'll find it :)
[05:07] <topgun601> i did a apt-get install of linux-source 
[05:07] <topgun601> when i run sh make.sh it dosenst find the source
[05:07] <nitin> nop
[05:07] <noda> nitin: I'm *sure* I saw it the other day :)
[05:07] <nitin> jgergerson im looking for how to set up my ATI 9700 pro
[05:07] <nitin> with 3d and all
[05:08] <nitin> :()
[05:08] <encKe`> we are on a novell/winblows network @ work. Ive tried to install Novell client for Linux on Ubuntu but errored
[05:08] <topgun601> just go to http://www.google.com/linux
[05:08] <atomsk> how's ATI support on ubuntu? same as Debian unstable?
[05:08] <nitin> dunno
[05:08] <nitin> thats why im asking
[05:08] <noda> atomsk: They've got proprietary drivers *on the CD*
[05:08] <micX> noda, deb testing for a server - maybe. but not unstable. Well not if you enjoy a reliable server.
[05:08] <noda> atomsk: But in general, ATI's linux support SUCKS
[05:08] <laander> when trying to update the kernel headers i see the repository already has a later kernel than i have.
[05:08] <nitin> yep
[05:08] <laander> is it safe to update the kernel?
[05:09] <noda> laander: Yes
[05:09] <noda> laander: Just do an "apt-get dist-upgrade" whenever you like :)
[05:09] <atomsk> noda: works ok on Debian unstable.
[05:09] <noda> laander: (only, don't blame me if it breaks :P)
[05:09] <digerati_> what kernel version is packaged with ?the current ubuntu release 
[05:10] <jgeorgeson> noda, i thought kernels were excluded. that you manually say to install a kernel image, reboot, and remove the old one
[05:10] <digerati_> and how long does a normal ubuntu install take?
[05:10] <noda> digerati_: 2.6.7 or 2.6.8.1, I forget
[05:10] <noda> digerati_: Around an hour
[05:10] <nitin> nah!
[05:10] <topgun601> 2.6.8.1
[05:10] <jgeorgeson> at least when i tried pure debian, release versions didn't have a kernel version tied to them
[05:10] <digerati_> noda - on an athlon 2600?
[05:10] <nitin> i got it done in 20 min
[05:10] <laander> i show 2.6.8.1-2 when doing a uname -a
[05:10] <noda> jgeorgeson: No, you can install "linux-kernel-2.6" and it'll automatically track it (it's a virtual package)
[05:10] <laander> just downloaded the CD today
[05:10] <noda> digerati_: On my laptop, Pentium-M 1300
[05:10] <digerati_> Alright, cool. Lemme finish masturbating and I think I'll go ahead and install it :)
[05:11] <topgun601> TMI
[05:11] <noda> digerati_: Should be more like 30 minutes for you :)
[05:11] <digerati_> i've got 50 minutes before I need to head to bed ;-)
[05:11] <jgeorgeson> noda, oh yeah, fo some reason i'm not sure of, i avoid the virtual tracking kernel packages
[05:11] <noda> nitin: Dammit, this is hard to find :)
[05:11] <nitin> :) told ya
[05:11] <nitin> i really want to use ubuntu
[05:11] <nitin> but i cant without proper 3d:)
[05:11] <nitin> i want my games to work ~_~
[05:11] <noda> nitin: Their drivers come on the CD, I *know* it :)
[05:11] <nitin> really>?
[05:11] <nitin> wtf
[05:12] <nitin> let me check
[05:12] <topgun601> mine hangs
[05:12] <kremlyn> What's a virtual package?
[05:12] <nitin> (im running ubuntu in vmware)
[05:12] <topgun601> mine hangs when i try to run the gui
[05:12] <atomsk> nitin: http://xoomer.virgilio.it/flavio.stanchina/debian/fglrx-installer.html
[05:12] <nitin> thtsa for ubuntu? 
[05:12] <noda> atomsk: The nice thing about a distro is that it does that kind of thing *for* you.
[05:12] <jgeorgeson> kremlyn: it just depends on another package with a more specific version. in the case of kernels, you install linux-kernel-2.6 and when you 'apt-get upgrade' you get the latest 2.6 kernel
[05:13] <noda> Ubuntu has the drivers.
[05:13] <jamesdorn> looks like the only way so far to get ubuntu working on PPC hardware is to run the i386 version with Virtual PC
[05:13] <atomsk> noda: well thats good to hear
[05:13] <nitin> oh those..
[05:13] <noda> I know, because I *have* an ATI card on this laptop, and I considered break^H^H^H^H^Hinstalling the drivers :)
[05:13] <nitin> but those arent ubuntu specific
[05:13] <goatboy> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[05:13] <kremlyn> jgeorgeson: Ahh, I got you. :-)
[05:13] <kremlyn> Thanks
[05:13] <noda> goatboy: Thank you :)
[05:13] <noda> nitin: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[05:14] <atomsk> nitin: they arent...but they work nicely for Debian/unstable. If Ubuntu ones dont work those should do just fine.
[05:14] <noda> See? Pretty damned easy :)
[05:14] <noda> atomsk: Look at the BinaryDriverHowto page. That's how simple it is :)
[05:15] <nitin> nice noda those seem like they might work ~_~
[05:15] <nitin> the binary ones:)
[05:15] <atomsk> noda: and what does "fglrx_info" say?
[05:15] <noda> Aw, you're tempting me now ;)
[05:16] <LeeColleton> what is the easiest way to allow more than one sound to play simultaneously?
[05:16] <noda> atomsk: Dunno, I haven't tried it :)
[05:16] <noda> LeeColleton: Erm... it should already work. What's blocking what?
[05:16] <atomsk> noda: try it...you are my test subject :P
[05:16] <toyowheelin> anyone here with a 64bit system figure out what to do for flashplayer?
[05:16] <noda> atomsk: No, nitin is :)
[05:16] <atomsk> lol
[05:16] <noda> I'm going to school tomorrow and need my laptop to work so I can do my homework :)
[05:17] <noda> And it's already past my bedtime :P
[05:17] <atomsk> noda: come on its just an info command
[05:17] <atomsk> I just want to know if vendor is ATI...
[05:17] <noda> atomsk: I don't have the drivers installed :)
[05:17] <toyowheelin> noda, almost my bedtime
[05:17] <LeeColleton> noda: I'm high, nevermind
[05:17] <jgeorgeson> anyone know how to persistently set ssid/wep for wifi NICs?
[05:17] <noda> jgeorgeson: Edit /etc/network/interfaces.
[05:18] <noda> jgeorgeson: Put "wireless_key [ABCDEF0123...] " after the "wireless_essid" line
[05:18] <jgeorgeson> what wireless_essid line?
[05:18] <noda> Okay then, after the "iface" line for your wireless card
[05:19] <jgeorgeson> looking at man page to figure out syntax of file
[05:20] <noda> jgeorgeson: It's pretty simple. Put that one line in and it'll work :)
[05:20] <noda> What I used to do when I was running Debian on this laptop (and when I had to deal with WEP keys) was: I installed a program called "waproamd". It's in universe.
[05:20] <LeeColleton> noda: okay, that's it:  Audacity won't open the audio i/o layer if there's another program using /dev/dsp
[05:21] <noda> LeeColleton: Tell it to use Alsa or ESD
[05:22] <noda> Ah well, bedtime for me. 'night everyone :)
[05:24] <defendguin> has anyone else had problems installing samba and samba common?
[05:24] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, why do you care about a life cycle of something that is out of date...software changes every day...unless you are in the antique business
[05:25] <jgeorgeson> pyramid: large enterprise businesses won't waste money paying admins to update 1000 linux servers to the new kernel that came out last week
[05:26] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, that is their own stupidity...why they choose to be in the antique business is beyond me.
[05:27] <jgeorgeson> pyramid: well, i agree with them. if it works, don't fix it. spend time improving your products instead of mindlessly upgrading your servers when they don't need it
[05:27] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, it seems that many corporations don't care about technology...they just want to use dos.
[05:28] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, but it does not work...if it did there would not have to be improvements everyday
[05:28] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, this is the fallacy...ignoring the potential of advancing software is a costly mistake.
[05:29] <atomsk> jgeorgeson: I guess its okay for unneeded improvement. But what about security fixes? Its like running after trouble...besides the update task can be automated.
[05:29] <jgeorgeson> pyramid, companies pay admins to pay attention to when a new version that will improve productivity becomes available and upgrade to it. Upgrading for the sake of upgrading is a costly mistake just like not upgrading when it's warranted
[05:29] <joem> please take rants to another chan and leave this one for ubuntu support
[05:29] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, i am not saying that the antique business is stupid..i am just saying why should so many want to be in the antique business and impede advancing technology.
[05:30] <HrdwrBoB> no
[05:30] <HrdwrBoB> you're both missing the point
[05:30] <HrdwrBoB> it's not a matter of if your software is OLD
[05:30] <HrdwrBoB> it's a matter of whether it's SUPPORTED
[05:31] <jgeorgeson> i'm siding with joem on this one
[05:31] <HrdwrBoB> if an exploit comes out
[05:31] <HrdwrBoB> and it's never fixed
[05:31] <HrdwrBoB> you're screwed
[05:31] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, it is not upgrading for the sake of upgrading...it is upgrading to see why programmers think that new stuff is warranted everyday.
[05:31] <HrdwrBoB> if a bug is found and it's never fixed
[05:31] <atomsk> is it possible to use a serial console the first time one boots Ubuntu?
[05:31] <HrdwrBoB> you're high and dry
[05:31] <Eucolindo> i'm not sure who to ask, but the ubuntu installer seems to have hung on me
[05:32] <Eucolindo> while running usb.rc
[05:32] <Eucolindo> is this the right place to ask?
[05:32] <jgeorgeson> i think i'm done here for the night
[05:32] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, nobody cares if antique and dinosaur software is supported...they are not living in the dark ages.
[05:35] <SuperElectric> I just installed ubuntu 4.10, but am having problems with the mouse. At some point, it'll stop registering clicks, until I ctrl-alt-backspace the X server. 
[05:35] <_digerati> I have a Dlink DI-314+ wireless card. It uses the acx100 chipset. How do I get this working in Ubuntu? 
[05:35] <elmaya> ndiswrapper
[05:36] <_digerati> ndiswrapper is shit
[05:36] <elmaya> is not
[05:36] <_digerati> is too
[05:36] <_digerati> ;-)
[05:36] <Eucolindo> lol
[05:36] <elmaya> is not
[05:36] <_digerati> http://acx100.sourceforge.net
[05:36] <_digerati> there is a project that is a much better alternative, but I was wondering if there is a way to do this natively in ubuntu
[05:37] <Eucolindo> ah... nevermind.  i seemed to have solved my problem
[05:37] <elmaya> then use that
[05:38] <toyowheelin> can anyone tell me what to do instead of using macromedia flash, because apperently they dont support amd64 
[05:38] <toyowheelin> is there a differnt project that will work
[05:38] <mosty> toyowheelin, html ?
[05:39] <mosty> toyowheelin, maybe a java applet?
[05:39] <pyramid> toyowheelin, i saw a gnuflash plugin a while back but it wasn't working too well at the time.
[05:39] <toyowheelin> mosty, flash pages dont work becaue i cant install flash
[05:39] <toyowheelin> pyramid, humm Ill have to look into that
[05:39] <mosty> toyowheelin, there are opensource .swf players/plugins, but they aren't very good
[05:40] <pyramid> toyowheelin, well you can try compiling the gnuflash plugin...but last i checked it did not work too well
[05:40] <toyowheelin> humm
[05:40] <pyramid> toyowheelin, but i quit using flash because they are MS bitches...they want to support the MS platform.
[05:40] <_digerati> Is there not an easier way to setup a wireless card in ubuntu?
[05:40] <_digerati> acx100 is a pain in the ass to get working
[05:41] <pyramid> toyowheelin, i think there are too many MS programmers already.
[05:41] <toyowheelin> pyramid, some websites I go to use flash
[05:41] <pyramid> toyowheelin, well write them and email and enlighten them about free software.
[05:41] <toyowheelin> lol
[05:41] <elmaya> _digerati, no pain...no gain
[05:42] <pyramid> toyowheelin, the inertia that MS has is an awesome force to overcome.
[05:43] <SuperElectric> Anybody have problems with their mouse clicks ceasing to register?
[05:43] <toyowheelin> pyramid, well the thing is 32bit ver of the flash plugin worked fine in mandrake, I just need a 64bit ver now, and there is no telling when macromedia will release that
[05:44] <pyramid> toyowheelin, well you have to understand that MS is very large and Macromedia is one of their bitches...they wish to support MS platform.
[05:44] <toyowheelin> yeah I know
[05:45] <riley> i thought macromedia was more of a mac oriented company
[05:45] <pyramid> toyowheelin, they also have antivirus bitches, antispyware bitches, gamer bitches, you name it...MS is gigantic.
[05:46] <toyowheelin> pyramid, I know ATI is one of their bitches
[05:46] <pyramid> toyowheelin, yes they have many hardware bitches as well.
[05:46] <toyowheelin> and unfortunately I have an ATI radeon 9800 pro
[05:46] <pyramid> toyowheelin, just look at HP and Brother printers...more hardware bitches for MS
[05:46] <riley> toyowheelin, sounds like our systems are alike, i have an ATI radeon 9800 pro and an amd64 processor
[05:47] <toyowheelin> lol riley cool
[05:47] <toyowheelin> amd athlon 3400+
[05:47] <mosty> pyramid, i have no trouble with hp printers
[05:47] <riley> toyowheelin, amd athlon 3000+
[05:47] <riley> pyramid, i thought hp was coming around to open source these days
[05:47] <pyramid> mosty, i have never seen an HP mfc printer ever work on linux and i tried several...HP is just an MS bitch.
[05:48] <mosty> pyramid, i have one, works fine
[05:48] <mosty> maybe you are doing something wrong
[05:48] <toyowheelin> pyramid, no... lexmark is FAR FAR FAR worse than hp
[05:48] <pyramid> mosty, i don't think it works....what scanner driver did you use and what fax driver did you use.
[05:49] <riley> pyramid, i have tried 3 hp printers on linux and all have worked flawlessly
[05:49] <riley> well i guess it would be a bit more complicated with scan and fax
[05:49] <toyowheelin> riley, when did you buy your pc?
[05:49] <mosty> pyramid, there was a printer+scanner driver on sourceforge. mine doesn't have fax
[05:49] <pyramid> riley, i don't believe you without specifics...and please don't tell me about crippled hardware that prints only without also performing color fax, copying, and scanning.allinone
[05:49] <LeeColleton> I'm trying to get sane running with my hp psc_1210 and it isn't detecting it.  I have the hpoj package installed.
[05:50] <mosty> hpoj is what i used
[05:50] <riley> toyowheelin, i got all of the parts within the last month and just built it last week
[05:50] <LeeColleton> It worked with debian, before I installed ubuntu.. I'm not sure what's different now
[05:50] <toyowheelin> oh...cool
[05:50] <toyowheelin> me too
[05:50] <pyramid> mosty, ok what scanner driver did you use.
[05:50] <toyowheelin> well I built mine at the begining of september
[05:51] <riley> cool
[05:51] <pyramid> LeeColleton, i told you HP is an MS bitch...they make sure their stuff works on MS and only supply junk for Linux.
[05:51] <riley> toyowheelin, what mobo do you have?
[05:51] <mosty> pyramid, hpoj
[05:51] <toyowheelin> gigabyte K8-VT800M
[05:51] <pyramid> mosty, well what fax system did you use.
[05:51] <LeeColleton> pyramid: bitch they may be, but I had my psc1210 running with debian and now that I've "upgraded" to ubuntu it doesn't work
[05:51] <mosty> pyramid, that's bs. HP make nice postscript printers, loved the world over by unix people
[05:52] <LeeColleton> that is to say; it prints, but doesn't scan.
[05:52] <riley> toyowheelin, did you have any problems with installation?  because my soyo SY-K8USA isn't working at all
[05:52] <toyowheelin> no problems
[05:52] <mosty> pyramid, i told you, my unit doesn't have a fax modem. i use a seperate modem
[05:52] <pyramid> mosty, nobody in the world is stupid enough to buy only a crippled postscript printer ....they all know about and want mfc's.
[05:52] <riley> toyowheelin, who makes the K8-VT800M?
[05:52] <mosty> are you retarded or something? heh
[05:52] <toyowheelin> Gigabyte
[05:52] <riley> oh ok lol
[05:53] <toyowheelin> its the K8 triton series
[05:53] <pyramid> mosty, and whether your printer is hardware postscript or uses a postscript interpreter is not as important as color fax
[05:54] <riley> toyowheelin, ok, i thought it was my processor that was screwing me up but since it went fine for you it's probably my mobo
[05:54] <toyowheelin> riley, what problems are you having
[05:54] <mosty> pyramid, for me, it's worth a lot more, just plug a printer into the network, without the need for a print server
[05:54] <pyramid> mosty, but the problem is that many hardware companies are MS bitches and only care if their stuff works on MS.
[05:55] <mosty> that is a problem, but i don't think HP is such a case. they provided support for the most important (common) functions of their stuff
[05:55] <riley> toyowheelin, onboard lan is not detected by any distro's installation, and once i install any distro, i can never get X to work and half of the commands in the terminal don't work
[05:55] <toyowheelin> riley, did you d/l the amd64 version of ubuntu
[05:55] <toyowheelin> ?
[05:55] <pyramid> mosty, it is a serious problem...
[05:55] <toyowheelin> or the i386 ver
[05:56] <riley> toyowheelin, yeah, i'm not a complete idiot lol
[05:56] <tomas__> can anyone help me to compile ? i tried now first time on uguntu 
[05:56] <toyowheelin> well the 386 version dose work
[05:56] <mosty> pyramid, the one obscure function you want (color fax)? not in my opinion
[05:56] <riley> it works on an amd64?
[05:56] <toyowheelin> it just dont take advantage of the processor
[05:56] <toyowheelin> yes
[05:56] <pyramid> mosty, yes everyone uses color fax to move picture of their PHB's around
[05:56] <riley> oh ok, i might try that
[05:57] <toyowheelin> riley, same as windows xp will work fine in 32 bit mode
[05:57] <mosty> pyramid, case in point: i didn't even know there was a color fax standard
[05:57] <pyramid> mosty, yes Brother printers have had color fax for a long time now...but they only support MS
[05:57] <riley> toyowheelin, what exactly are the advantages of 64 bit processing?
[05:57] <tomas__> i tried ./configure on source i downloaded... says no compiler installed.. i "cp gcc-3.4 gcc" and now it says "configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check"
[05:57] <toyowheelin> more data at a time can be processed
[05:58] <toyowheelin> so 64bit is faster
[05:58] <tomas__> why is it called gcc-3.4 and not gcc ?
[05:58] <pyramid> mosty, there are just so many MS bitches...hardware and software...just look at Nero, Isobuster, WinIso, Ghost, Norton, Macromedia, Sun Java, etc.
[05:58] <riley> so basically you're only using half of the processor's resources in 32 bit mode?
[05:58] <_digerati> No compiler found in $PATH
[05:58] <_digerati> wtf?
[05:58] <toyowheelin> yeah kinda
[05:59] <mosty> pyramid, i thought modems didn't need drivers? everything is done through the AT command set
[05:59] <tomas__> yes it was: configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH
[05:59] <pyramid> mosty, well yes you can use a modem...but you will have to pull in a picture into your computer and then send it out again...with a mfc...it is all automatic and the computer is not really needed.
[06:00] <tomas__> that passed after i cp gcc-3.4 gcc
[06:00] <pyramid> mosty, but the problem is that Brother is an MS bitch.
[06:00] <mosty> pyramid, i would imagine you'd want to crop/filter/edit the picture on your computer first anyway
[06:01] <toyowheelin> riley, plus 32bit is a waste of an expensive processor, I dont know about you but my processor was nearly $300
[06:01] <riley> mine was $150 with a discount a newegg
[06:01] <pyramid> mosty, well yes you will have that capability...but if you just want to send a picture of your Pointy Haired Boss to someone...the Brother is the way to go...but not without Linux support.
[06:01] <toyowheelin> oh
[06:01] <riley> but mine is also sub 2 GHz, what's yours?
[06:01] <toyowheelin> I bought my whole system on newegg
[06:01] <mosty> pyramid, fax is too expensive, why not use email instead?
[06:02] <toyowheelin> riley, mine is 2.4Ghz
[06:02] <pyramid> mosty, fax is not expensive when you live in a metropolis and everything is local.
[06:02] <rev_trance> how do i set up printing through gimp-print via the gnome cups manager?
[06:02] <rev_trance> or, how do i enable administration via the cups manager?
[06:03] <mosty> pyramid, it's expensive for the receiver, especially color
[06:03] <riley> toyowheelin, yeah, somebody pointed me to newegg after i had bought a couple of parts (ram and video card), and i liked it so much that i bought the rest there
[06:03] <tomas__> anyone knows?
[06:03] <pyramid> mosty, well yes ink costs but someone may want to see a picture of your Pointy Haired Boss.
[06:03] <mosty> pyramid, methinks email is a much nicer solution
[06:04] <toyowheelin> riley, my whole computer minus the keyboard monitor and mouse came to be $959
[06:04] <pyramid> mosty, well over long distance email is nice...but locally fax is very useful especially when signatures are needed.
[06:04] <kremlyn> which utilities provide help in gnome?
[06:04] <joem> yelp
[06:05] <mosty> pyramid, last time i sent a signature on a fax, i got a letter back asking for a proper signature instead
[06:05] <kremlyn> great, thanks :-)
[06:05] <toyowheelin> how much ram do you have riley
[06:05] <pyramid> mosty, well many people have sent me papers that they wanted signed and faxed back..so i can only tell you from my own experience.
[06:06] <riley> toyowheelin, that's pretty good figuring in the $300 processor.  i haven't found out my exact cost, but it was between $1100 and $1200
[06:06] <riley> toyowheelin, 1GB
[06:06] <riley> i got 2 512KB at $75 a piece
[06:06] <toyowheelin> yeah I got 1GB of DDR 3200 corseir 
[06:06] <riley> i got corseir 4000
[06:07] <riley> wait i was thinking of something else 3200
[06:07] <pyramid> mosty, one time i was going to buy a house and they had to have a faxed signature on the contract.
[06:07] <toyowheelin> 400mhz ram is the max my board supports
[06:07] <toyowheelin> 3200=400mhz
[06:07] <riley> i'm just wondering, can multiple linux distros use the same swap partition
[06:08] <mosty> yes
[06:08] <toyowheelin> I dont know
[06:08] <riley> yeah that's what i was thinking, 400 mhz
[06:08] <pyramid> mosty, and it is sickening that Brother and HP are MS bitches and make sure their stuff works on MS but not on Linux.
[06:08] <mosty> if 99.9% of their customers use windows, it's not sickening
[06:09] <toyowheelin> riley, sounds like our pcs are almost identicle
[06:09] <rev_trance> riley: i've had up to 5 distros on my machine, sharing the same swap
[06:09] <riley> toyowheelin, yeah lol it's just my crappy mobo
[06:09] <toyowheelin> :)
[06:09] <pyramid> mosty, but don't you see...if they all support MS like NERO,Norton,etc...then it is a vicious circle because everyone will want MS so they will have to support it again and again.
[06:10] <toyowheelin> riley, what mobo was it again?
[06:10] <riley> rev_trance, cool, i was wondering because i'm going to partition my old pc so that i can install 8 distros at the same time lol
[06:10] <mosty> you're confusing me now, nero and norton are software...
[06:10] <pyramid> mosty, everyone wants MS because everyone supports MS...until this stops nothing will change.
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: a lot of the problem is at the school level
[06:10] <LeeColleton> riley: only if they aren't using the swap concurrently
[06:10] <riley> toyowheelin, SOYO SY-K8USA DRAGON, http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-139-136&depa=0
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> MS provide windows cheap/free to schools
[06:10] <pyramid> mosty, MS has many bitches...software and hardware wise.
[06:10] <HrdwrBoB> students use it
[06:11] <HrdwrBoB> so people know it
[06:11] <HrdwrBoB> etcetc 
[06:11] <riley> LeeColleton, they won't be, is it even possible for two distros on the same os to be running at the same time?
[06:11] <toyowheelin> riley, you have an atx board
[06:11] <mosty> pyramid, X uses Y, therefore X is Y's bitch?
[06:11] <toyowheelin> mine is mini atx
[06:11] <riley> toyowheelin, atx only matters for cases right?
[06:11] <pyramid> mosty, i don't even think Solomon the wise had as many bitches as MS has.
[06:11] <toyowheelin> yea
[06:12] <riley> toyowheelin, bear with me, this is the first pc i ever built lol
[06:12] <toyowheelin> and you have more pci and memory slots than I do
[06:12] <pyramid> mosty, no X writes software or builds hardware for Y therefore X is Y's bitch.
[06:12] <riley> yeah well that doesn't really matter if it won't run lol
[06:13] <mosty> pyramid, by that reasoning, every hardware and software manufacturer is somebodies bitch
[06:13] <pyramid> mosty, well hey...if they choose to be an MS bitch what difference does it make to me?
[06:13] <LeeColleton> riley: swap is essentially like RAM, but slower.  Assuming the drive is only accessible by one computer system, you won't have a problem.  If it was a remote volume then you might have a problem, but that only matters for dickless workstations
[06:14] <pyramid> mosty, but i am saying that until people stop being MS bitches nothing will change.
[06:14] <toyowheelin> riley, http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-203&DEPA=1 thats my mobo
[06:15] <rev_trance> I don't know what i'd do with out MS, i like running an OS thats better than theirs.
[06:17] <LeeColleton> From the linuxprinting.org docs it seems that hpoj-0.91-3 should support scanning with sane, yet when I run sane it says no devices can be detected.  What gives?
[06:18] <HrdwrBoB> LeeColleton: what sort of a retard runs remote swap?
[06:18] <toyowheelin> HrdwrBoB, wtf you talking about
[06:18] <LeeColleton> HrdwrBoB: retards with linux installed on their airport WAP
[06:18] <riley> toyowheelin, cool
[06:19] <HrdwrBoB> what a terrible solution  to a silly problem
[06:19] <t35t0r> what retards with linux on their wap?
[06:19] <t35t0r> linksys wrt54g ?
[06:19] <HrdwrBoB> wrt54gs
[06:20] <HrdwrBoB> more ram
[06:20] <HrdwrBoB> more storage
[06:20] <t35t0r> how much more
[06:20] <t35t0r> interesting
[06:20] <HrdwrBoB> twice as much
[06:20] <t35t0r> i wonder if you can inject it with VPN
[06:20] <t35t0r> support
[06:20] <t35t0r> that would be "badass"
[06:20] <toyowheelin> ssh tunnel
[06:20] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:21] <riley> toyowheelin, so would you recommend Gigabyte mobos?
[06:21] <t35t0r> gigabyte is good if you've got the money
[06:21] <t35t0r> they make solid server mobos
[06:21] <toyowheelin> I havent found anything thats bad about it
[06:21] <t35t0r> if you want desktop go msi or asus
[06:22] <LeeColleton> HrdwrBoB: I didn't say it was a good idea to run remote swap, I'm just pointing out that it's the only way to have a conflict in sharing swap partitions between multiple operating systems
[06:22] <t35t0r> simply because so many people have them you'll get good support if something goes wrong
[06:22] <toyowheelin> so yeah I would...but than again I have had it for a lil over a month
[06:22] <pyramid> does anybody know what the problem is with www.shiite.com/caver....i am very worried about this.
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> LeeColleton: yes, but until you mentioned it, no-one even considered doing that for a second, because it should never be done
[06:23] <mosty> leecollecton: what's wrong with local swap files?
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> if you have to have a PC on for remote swap for the airport
[06:23] <HrdwrBoB> ... couldn't you just do that stuff on the PC
[06:23] <pyramid> how many people are keeping up with www.shiite.com/caver?
[06:23] <t35t0r> what is that?
[06:23] <LeeColleton> pyramid: sponsored links for ISLAM?
[06:24] <t35t0r> ahh shiite
[06:24] <pyramid> it is very worrisome....no it is not about ISLAM...read it 
[06:24] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:24] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: go to the url
[06:24] <t35t0r> is there a web.archive.org link for it?
[06:24] <pyramid> i told you www.shiite.com/caver
[06:24] <t35t0r> or maybe a nyud.net coral cache
[06:24] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[06:24] <HrdwrBoB> go there
[06:24] <t35t0r> i went there its not there
[06:24] <t35t0r> what used to be there
[06:24] <t35t0r> the document you requested is tno there
[06:25] <toyowheelin> riley, I think linux just dont like your chipset
[06:25] <pyramid> ok sorry it is www.holyshiite.com/caver
[06:25] <LeeColleton> caver?  is that like http://www.infiltration.org/
[06:25] <pyramid> no read it ...it is very troublesome. and very important.
[06:25] <toyowheelin> my mobo has a via chipset, not the best but its got support
[06:26] <pyramid> it seems to be contact with the supernatural.
[06:26] <pyramid> but something has happened and it has not been updated for quite some time.
[06:26] <topgun601> ok i formated, reinstalled, followled the help at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto 
[06:27] <riley> toyowheelin, yeah a few other people have said that
[06:27] <toyowheelin> oh you got one of them fancy memory card readers cool
[06:27] <LeeColleton> miners suck
[06:27] <pyramid> you have not been reading www.holyshiite.com/caver
[06:27] <topgun601> and it still hangs on my 9800 pro any sugestions ?
[06:28] <riley> yeah but i don't know if it's going to work with linux or not
[06:28] <pyramid> i fear something terrible has happened.
[06:28] <t35t0r> whip's dog loks like mine
[06:28] <toyowheelin> riley, I must admit you got a lot more stuff with your mobo
[06:29] <t35t0r> being very very clausterophobic i would not enter a cave
[06:29] <t35t0r> especially one so "tight"
[06:30] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:30] <LeeColleton> This fellow appears to be an idiot: http://www.edaddyo.com/images/caver/squeeze.jpg
[06:30] <pyramid> t35t0r, i bet you would not enter that cave....after you read what we have on the subject...but something has happened in the middle of it.
[06:30] <riley> toyowheelin, it came in a discount bundle off of newegg
[06:30] <toyowheelin> 9:29pm fabbione
[06:30] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:30] <t35t0r> i'm just looking at pictures
[06:30] <t35t0r> spelunking would not be by preferred profesison
[06:30] <toyowheelin> how much did you end up paying for it riley
[06:31] <pyramid> t35t0r, well it is only 10 pages or so to read and gather as many facts as you can.
[06:32] <fabbione> toyowheelin: ain't my fault if you live in the wrong side of the world ;)
[06:32] <pyramid> t35t0r, the author writes a bit too much detail for me...but sift through it to get the important stuff.
[06:32] <toyowheelin> lol fabbione
[06:32] <riley> toyowheelin: $300 for mobo and processor
[06:32] <toyowheelin> not bad
[06:32] <riley> yeah but now i
[06:33] <riley> but now i'll prbly end up giving the mobo to my dad since he can put it to use with windoze
[06:33] <toyowheelin> yeah
[06:33] <toyowheelin> you gonna buy a differnt mobo
[06:33] <t35t0r> pyramid, so what is that round rock? looks like they came upon some historical anthropological dig
[06:33] <pyramid> t35t0r, i fear the author paid a very high price to give you that little information.
[06:34] <riley> yeah i'll probably end up having to
[06:34] <t35t0r> i don't really understand what that thing is
[06:34] <t35t0r> they found some kind of symbol
[06:34] <pyramid> t35t0r, well from the strange smells, loud screams, physical manifestations and so on ...this is very bothersome.
[06:34] <toyowheelin> well this gigabyte is working fine
[06:34] <riley> i've tried everything i know to try and i can't get it to work
[06:34] <t35t0r> maybe it's just ancient cave drawings ..maybe a burial tomb
[06:34] <toyowheelin> and it prefoms well
[06:34] <t35t0r> pyramid, i don't believe very much in the supernatural ..
[06:34] <riley> and since it's not the processor i can't think of what else could be the problem
[06:35] <pyramid> t35t0r, well just read the facts that we have...and give it some thought.
[06:35] <toyowheelin> riley, whats it do in linux?
[06:35] <t35t0r> pyramid, heh well i was in the middle of listening to RMS on software patents
[06:35] <toyowheelin> is it just not seeing everythin
[06:35] <riley> toyowheelin, linux just refuses to work, particularly X doesn't like it
[06:36] <pyramid> t35t0r, well RMS has a very important point but unfortunately IBM and MS have lots of $$$$ and this buys costly patents.
[06:36] <toyowheelin> riley, that could be your video card too
[06:36] <riley> and yeah it doesn't see the nic
[06:36] <toyowheelin> oh...
[06:36] <toyowheelin> yeah
[06:36] <riley> and in ubuntu sudo doesn't work
[06:36] <riley> so i can't do anything about it
[06:36] <toyowheelin> sudo su
[06:36] <toyowheelin> password
[06:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, i'm thinking of patenting some ehrmm software
[06:36] <kremlyn> Heathen!
[06:37] <kremlyn> Software patents will be the death of us all!
[06:37] <t35t0r> its actually worse
[06:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, but i think www.holyshiite.com/caver and RMS are both making important points...
[06:37] <riley> no matter what i do with sudo, it breaks the terminal so that i have to shut down with the power button
[06:37] <kremlyn> I am meeting RMS in 4 days :-D
[06:37] <t35t0r> pyramid, its better to be down to earth
[06:37] <Treenaks> riley: that sounds.. strange..
[06:37] <t35t0r> kremlyn, where is he giving a speech?
[06:37] <t35t0r> au?
[06:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, caver is down to earth as you can get....it is below the earth.
[06:37] <t35t0r> pyramid, heh funnny
[06:38] <t35t0r> yea but caver could be completely phoney
[06:38] <toyowheelin> riley, have you tried redownloading the iso and burning another copy
[06:38] <encKe`> hiya P
[06:38] <t35t0r> riley, how about md5suming the thing
[06:38] <t35t0r> jeez
[06:38] <toyowheelin> or that
[06:38] <toyowheelin> lol
[06:38] <pyramid> t35t0r, no i don't think it is a hoax...the writing is too bad to be a hoax...something really happened and the dog sensed it.
[06:38] <t35t0r> pyramid, you're naivete will be the end of you
[06:39] <riley> no, i haven't mdsummed it, but since it happens with a bunch of distros that's probably not the problem, but i'll try it anyway
[06:39] <pyramid> t35t0r, well at least i won't have that Satanic shadow bothering me like www.holyshiite.com/caver
[06:39] <toyowheelin> humm I dont know but its past my bed time so I am off
[06:40] <toyowheelin> nice talking to you riley
[06:40] <riley> you too toyowheelin
[06:40] <toyowheelin> c-ya everyone
[06:40] <supertux_> is anyone haveing serious problems with firefox and mozilla?
[06:41] <t35t0r> you can't fight software patents there are too many dumb people
[06:41] <t35t0r> if you can't beat 'em join 'em
[06:41] <Treenaks> fabbione: do you think the strace is usable/
[06:41] <t35t0r> and if they get beat well i'll just have to innovate
[06:43] <t35t0r> kremlyn, btw most of the world thinks nix users are heathens heh
[06:43] <t35t0r> its sad but true
[06:44] <fabbione> Treenaks: hold on a sec.. i am trying to understand if i am alive first ;)
[06:45] <fabbione> Treenaks: do you think you can install -dbg and give me a gdb backtrace instead?
[06:45] <fabbione> i will be back in 10 minutes...
[06:47] <riley> how do you do that think where you say your username does whatever (sorry, i'm an IRC newb if you can't tell :-D)
[06:47] <crimsun> riley: /me
[06:48] <crimsun> riley: or /action
[06:48] <t35t0r> Usage: ME <action>, sends the action to the current channel (actions are written in the 3rd person, like /me jumps)
[06:49] <riley> thanks crimsun!
[06:50] <riley> also, how do you leave a message when you leave? just /quit <message> ?
[06:51] <t35t0r> I'm going to patent this software just to create havoc 
[06:51] <t35t0r> so that people can see that's its a bad idea
[06:51] <t35t0r> :>
[06:51] <t35t0r> and hopefully get more media attention on the issue
[06:51] <t35t0r> which is what needs to be done
[06:52] <fable> yeah media attention rocks
[06:55] <LeeColleton> except the media doesn't have any attention
[06:55] <LeeColleton> the media has focus, that's it
[06:55] <t35t0r> that's what i meant put its focus on the issue
[06:56] <LeeColleton> they travel and think in packs, demonstrating a massive defecit of serious attention to anything
[06:56] <fable> oh i disadgree, the media has so much attention...
[06:56] <fable> people focus their attention on the media...
[06:56] <t35t0r> yea its funny how they are like hyenas
[06:56] <fable> giving it attention
[06:56] <t35t0r> i've stopped watching tv
[06:57] <t35t0r> like a year ago
[06:57] <fable> i dont what the fsck im saying
[06:57] <fable> same
[06:57] <fable> well i watch some things
[06:57] <t35t0r> heh i don't know if it was good or not ..probably been spending more time on the keyboard
[06:57] <fable> but i dont watch most networks anymore
[06:58] <fable> tv , computer... same stuff
[06:58] <topgun601> hi all
[06:58] <t35t0r> well i can be doing something productive 
[06:58] <t35t0r> discussing etc as i am now
[06:59] <fable> rather than nothing at all
[06:59] <fable> so the computer is a much better sorce for information than tv
[06:59] <t35t0r> i thoroughly believe that having ADD is not a disease
[06:59] <LeeColleton> fable: the television is a broadcast medium, where one channel communicates to many viewers.  The Internet opens the possibility of many channels communicating to many viewers, who can in turn become active participants.
[06:59] <t35t0r> fable: yes you get to research on your own
[07:00] <t35t0r> hehe that's why i can't sit ther and watch the television
[07:00] <LeeColleton> the Internet is much more democratic than the tele, which is why The Corporation fears it.
[07:00] <fable> heh yeah
[07:01] <t35t0r> you'll never hear RMS even on PBS
[07:01] <LeeColleton> Do we have any Microsoft employees in the channel?
[07:01] <LeeColleton> Don't be afraid, we won't bite.
[07:01] <t35t0r> probably
[07:01] <t35t0r> i'm on winxp atm
[07:01] <t35t0r> heh
[07:01] <fable> I'm against microsoft all the way
[07:01] <t35t0r> i don't even have a nix box of my own
[07:01] <fable> just by what im using
[07:02] <fable> modded xbox, downloaded windows xp
[07:02] <fable> corporate
[07:03] <LeeColleton> fable: using Microsoft products is a way of showing your support for their company
[07:03] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, you can
[07:03] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, there's an entire book written on it
[07:03] <t35t0r> i'm not surprise it hasn't been banned by DMCA in the usa
[07:03] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: I have a v1.5 xbox.  The GPU is incompatible
[07:04] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, hrrmm nothing is "incompatible"
[07:04] <LeeColleton> rather, there are no drivers for the v1.5 GPU
[07:04] <t35t0r> that' doesn't mean its incompatible
[07:04] <LeeColleton> no open source drivers
[07:04] <t35t0r> it just needs to be reversed
[07:04] <t35t0r> no open source means it has to be reversed
[07:04] <riley> there's a book on installing linux on an xbox? lol that's awesome, of course i will never give m$ $150 so it doesn't matter...
[07:05] <LeeColleton> right, but that's a difficult thing when you're talking about an IC that deals with HF and unpublished codecs
[07:05] <joem> buy one used
[07:05] <riley> lol that works
[07:05] <LeeColleton> joem: what, am I made of money?
[07:05] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, you have to see what inputs give what outputs on the ic its very complicated ..prohibitive
[07:05] <joem> was taking to riley in regards to giving microsoft money
[07:05] <LeeColleton> I'm probably going to trade my xbox for an older version 
[07:06] <fable> yeah gentoox is a really good os done
[07:06] <fable> its for the xbox
[07:07] <fable> and if i only have spent 150 toward all the M$ products
[07:07] <fable> then its not really helping their companies
[07:07] <soleblaze> question..i'm trying to setup ubuntu using debootstrap.. but I can't find which mirror to use
[07:07] <t35t0r> you've probably spent much more money on nix
[07:07] <t35t0r> you're time
[07:07] <soleblaze> anyone know which mirror i use?
[07:07] <fable> actully i have
[07:08] <fable> i spent money on usb cables for the xbox for linux
[07:08] <fable> my other harddrive has slack10 on it
[07:08] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: I just spent an evening getting my printer to work (which it now does).  I can't quite figure out what I did though...
[07:08] <fable> just got that working a couple of days ago
[07:08] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, yea thats nix
[07:08] <soleblaze> can someone tell me a ubuntu mirror?
[07:09] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, linux-wlan-ng fried my built-in prism3 USB wireless device in my laptop
[07:09] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, now it won't even work in XP
[07:09] <t35t0r> when i dual boot
[07:09] <LeeColleton> Linux.  It's only free if your time isn't worth anything.
[07:09] <fable> ive never tried wifi... is it any good
[07:09] <t35t0r> the things we do to get stuff working in nix
[07:09] <joem> xboxs are sold at a loss iirc
[07:09] <joem> they make their money on games
[07:09] <fable> i buy games to support the company making the game
[07:09] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: that is from 2001
[07:10] <fable> like i have a preorder on halo 2... just to support bungie
[07:10] <LeeColleton> fable: but that company pays huge licensing fees to MS
[07:10] <LeeColleton> I'm going to buy halo 2 myself.. probably.
[07:10] <fable> I don't know... well i geuss i am wrong
[07:10] <fable> bungie is owned by M$
[07:10] <t35t0r> yea pretty much pwned
[07:11] <t35t0r> they can't live without each other at the moment
[07:11] <fable> i just got the preorder so i could get the game WHEN it comes out
[07:11] <fable> i couldnt get Fable 2 weeks after it was released
[07:11] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: WTF does pwned mean?  Is that supposed to be some clever misspelling of owned?
[07:11] <bob2> bungie is OWNED by MS
[07:11] <elmaya> how do i set the clock to not use utc
[07:12] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwned
[07:12] <t35t0r> ya
[07:12] <t35t0r> its annoying
[07:12] <t35t0r> pwn3d
[07:12] <bob2> elmaya: edit /etc/default/rcS, but have you checked the BTS if you're having a clock problem?
[07:12] <fable> i know thats what i said
[07:12] <elmaya> bts?
[07:12] <fable> MS has the rights toward the coompany Bungie
[07:13] <fable> pure OWNAGE
[07:13] <LeeColleton> is that similar to slavery?
[07:13] <LeeColleton> ownership of another human
[07:13] <bob2> no, it just bought them out.
[07:13] <bob2> elmaya: /topic
[07:13] <fable> yeah what bob2 said
[07:15] <riley> what's the command to create a new user?
[07:15] <bob2> riley: adduser
[07:15] <t35t0r> add it manually to passwd
[07:15] <fable> yeah i also screw M$ over by softmodding xboxs
[07:15] <LeeColleton> Never been easier.. to turn users off of Linux
[07:15] <riley> bob2: thanks
[07:15] <t35t0r> and etc group
[07:15] <bob2> fable: that's not screwing them, you bought an xbox from them.
[07:16] <fable> but they lose money when people buy xboxs
[07:16] <LeeColleton> oh, if I put ubuntu on my computer then my kids will be able to download music and look at porn.  Great! chinese food
[07:16] <bob2> fable: they lose more if it sits in their warehouse.
[07:16] <fable> haha
[07:16] <LeeColleton> bob2: they lose even more if those warehouses catch fire
[07:17] <t35t0r> how are people able to sell these xboxes on ebay with like 120games on them ..its so illegal
[07:17] <fable> yeah where are their warehouses anyways
[07:17] <fable> ive softmodded all my friends boxs
[07:17] <t35t0r> see the thing is you can sell modchip's its just illegal to sell premodded xboxes
[07:17] <t35t0r> fable: see that's illegal
[07:17] <bob2> fable: so by buying them, all you've done is give MS money.
[07:17] <fable> i know
[07:17] <LeeColleton> foriegn countries, mostly.  Malaysia and china I think.. Maybe Mexico
[07:18] <t35t0r> fable: and if you were making money you would definately be a felon heh
[07:18] <bob2> t35t0r: only in some oppressive countries like the USA and Australia.
[07:18] <fable> also ive copied 24 or so xbox games today
[07:18] <t35t0r> bob2, yes
[07:18] <fable> fucking them over more
[07:18] <bob2> fable: this is not a warez channel.
[07:18] <t35t0r> bob2, most of western eurpon too
[07:18] <soleblaze> anyone here familiar with setting up ubuntu on a diskless system?
[07:18] <fable> sry ill stop
[07:18] <LeeColleton> http://www.xbox-linux.org/docs/manufacturing.html
[07:18] <bob2> t35t0r: yeah :/
[07:18] <bob2> fable: thank you.
[07:18] <fable> linux is legal on xboxs
[07:18] <t35t0r> linux is not legal 
[07:18] <t35t0r> on xboxes
[07:18] <fable> I think, if you use a opensorce bios
[07:19] <joem> sony ps 2 linux kit
[07:19] <t35t0r> because it allows you to rip the games
[07:19] <fable> is there such thing?
[07:19] <joem> yea
[07:19] <t35t0r> in the us anyways
[07:19] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: what I do with my xbox in the privacy of my home is my business
[07:19] <bob2> This seems fairly off-topic, guys.
[07:19] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, yes
[07:19] <LeeColleton> can we install ubuntu on the xbox?
[07:19] <fable> bob2: really off topic
[07:19] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, i imagine it would be the same as installing any other
[07:19] <bob2> yeah.
[07:19] <bob2> LeeColleton: no.
[07:20] <fable> LeeColleton: someone with some linux/xbox programming skill could port it
[07:20] <t35t0r> mang it gets boring addressing n00bs "I CAN't get dOom3 to work, hep me!!
[07:20] <t35t0r> hehe
[07:20] <t35t0r> what are we t odo ??!
[07:20] <fable> doom3 in linux?
[07:20] <t35t0r> fable: it's just a joke heh
[07:20] <fable> is that possible?
[07:20] <t35t0r> cedega says so
[07:20] <soleblaze> so no one here has any idea how to get ubuntu working bootless?
[07:20] <HrdwrBoB> fable: I use winex to play doom3 in linux
[07:20] <fable> thats BULL...
[07:20] <topgun601> thy have beta
[07:21] <fable> HrdwrBoB: doom 3 run well?
[07:21] <LeeColleton> Someone on the mailing list suggested having ubuntu's xchat connect to this channel by default.
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> not really
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> :)
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> nah it's ok
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> about a 15% performance hit though
[07:21] <t35t0r> doom3 was such a disappointment for me  ..it just doesn't have the fun factor of a game like ut2k4
[07:21] <HrdwrBoB> t35t0r: it's a horror game
[07:22] <fable> ut2004 rocks...
[07:22] <topgun601> more like horable
[07:22] <t35t0r> Hrdwr_BoB, so was doom , doom II, but they pwned
[07:22] <fable> i want to play on linux... but my cd2 is scrached
[07:22] <pyramid> why do so many people want to put ubuntu on xbox,ps2 , and now gamecube just to steal all the games.
[07:22] <bob2> pyramid: they don't.
[07:22] <t35t0r> pyramid, they don't 
[07:22] <bob2> pyramid: it's a very small group, but they're very vocal
[07:22] <fable> yeah nobody does...
[07:22] <t35t0r> pyramid, its just a challenge ..like linux from scratch
[07:22] <bob2> pyramid: the vast majority of linux users take copyright seriously
[07:22] <fable> there is already software that does that..
[07:22] <t35t0r> or like building your own box for the first time
[07:23] <t35t0r> bob2, that's so not true
[07:23] <pyramid> well i saw the gamecube linux server and it had over 40 pirated games online for download...buy why?
[07:23] <fable> pyramid: people choose to save the money of not buying games...
[07:24] <t35t0r> i hate games in general ..except for ut2k4 cause i like blowing things up and venting anger stress
[07:24] <t35t0r> hehe
[07:24] <t35t0r> and running over people in the hummer and tank
[07:24] <pyramid> bob2,  i mean i don't care...i am not paid by MS or anyone to care...but i just don't understand why so many people like to pirate all the games.
[07:24] <t35t0r> and hearing them scream 
[07:24] <fable> haha
[07:24] <t35t0r> muahwbhaahha
[07:24] <bob2> pyramid: I don't get it either
[07:24] <fable> and getting the thing that goes
[07:25] <fable> crap cant remember...
[07:25] <bob2> anyway, pirating games for any OS is entirely off-topic here
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> I have an xbox
[07:25] <bob2> go to #warez or something if you want to continue it
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> I chipped it so I could use xbox media center
[07:25] <fable> XBMC ROCKS!
[07:25] <t35t0r> bob2, little do they know what happens if you go t #warez
[07:25] <pyramid> bob2, i mean it is no big deal they have all the tools on Linux to write their own multimillion dollar games so why pirate somebody else's.
[07:25] <fable> so much
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> ... to play my pirated movies!!
[07:25] <t35t0r> i think you get auto k=linked
[07:25] <fable> BEST MEDIA CENTER FOR ANY OS!
[07:25] <t35t0r> k-lined
[07:25] <HrdwrBoB> wellm no
[07:25] <fable> beats ANYTHING!
[07:25] <bob2> t35t0r: oh, good point
[07:26] <bob2> go to #warezkiddies or something then.
[07:26] <HrdwrBoB> fable: it's irritating because my xbox is an unstable useless heap of crap and I can't get XMBC for linux
[07:26] <q2> hey
[07:26] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, why do so many people want to pirate movies also.
[07:26] <bob2> pyramid: I don't know, it's always seemd fairly pathetic to me
[07:26] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: because they're expensive
[07:26] <topgun601> any one have problems installing the drivers for a 9800 pro after following the dirctons in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto ?
[07:26] <pyramid> bob2, i mean they have all the tools on Linux to create their own multimillion dollar movies so why pirate somebody else's
[07:26] <t35t0r> heh i would if (join() =~ /warez/) { kline($user); }
[07:26] <HrdwrBoB> a new movie in au can be  $30-40
[07:26] <fable> HrdwrBoB: I think its really cool... I use to watch movies and stuff off the computer
[07:26] <bob2> pyramid: exactly
[07:27] <HrdwrBoB> not to mention we get movies literally MONTHS after other countries
[07:27] <bob2> HrdwrBoB: then order from overseas.
[07:27] <bob2> oh, wait, you can't.
[07:27] <t35t0r> haha
[07:27] <t35t0r> yea you cna't 
[07:27] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well who wants a movie anyway...who wants to hear all that propoganda.
[07:27] <t35t0r> DVD region 1
[07:27] <t35t0r> DVD region 2
[07:27] <t35t0r> blah blah
[07:27] <fable> I want to see Ghost in the Shell 2
[07:28] <t35t0r> really ..has anyone see that "you don't know bleep" movie
[07:28] <fable> Region Free owns
[07:28] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: I watch movies to enjoy myself
[07:28] <fable> havent heard of it...
[07:28] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, it is all propoganda and someone else's belief system...so why bother.
[07:28] <HrdwrBoB> I'm not sure what movies you're watching
[07:28] <t35t0r> its not out here until oct 15
[07:28] <t35t0r> i'll go watch it ..just because it's "different"
[07:28] <t35t0r> hehe
[07:28] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: sounds like you are a bit of a wowser
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> "why pirate movies"
[07:29] <t35t0r> the thing with propaganda is it can be funny to listen to or watch ..just make up your own mind
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> "because X"
[07:29] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, no after spending 20years in college listening to everyone else's propoganda...i don't want to hear anymore.
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> "well then why watch it at all"
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> there's your problem
[07:29] <HrdwrBoB> overeducation :)
[07:29] <fable> haha
[07:29] <t35t0r> heh i'm gonna listen to some more rms
[07:29] <q2> My screensavers get horrible frame rates.  Libranet got awesome ones
[07:29] <LeeColleton> I would like to use my webcam with ubuntu.  It is a sn9c102.  V4L2 recognizes it and assigns /dev/video0
[07:30] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, i mean really...why bias your thought system with Matrix, or Van Helsing.
[07:30] <LeeColleton> None of the cam apps will work with it.  What to do?
[07:30] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: or you could just watch it 
[07:30] <fable> never used a netcam in linux...
[07:30] <bob2> q2: do ou have hardware accelration enabled?
[07:30] <q2> not sure
[07:30] <fabbione> LeeColleton: xawtv should do
[07:30] <t35t0r> movies no matter what "propaganda" they may have are always a form of art ..which should be appreciated simply because it is art ..art for its own sake 
[07:30] <fable> Yeah make sure you have the right modules in...
[07:30] <fabbione> LeeColleton: it grabs data from V4L
[07:30] <t35t0r> even if the movie is terrible
[07:30] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, but even watching it subconcsientously affects your mentality.
[07:31] <bob2> q2: what sort of card do you have?
[07:31] <fabbione> LeeColleton: just check the man page to see how to use /dev/video0
[07:31] <q2> Voodoo 3 PCI 16aMB
[07:31] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: OH NOES my mentality
[07:31] <t35t0r> mang some people use some funky old hardware
[07:31] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: do you have a tinfoil hat?
[07:31] <q2> ya
[07:31] <fable> I don't know much of what is supported in ubuntu
[07:31] <t35t0r> pyramid does have a tinfoil hat
[07:31] <q2> i also do
[07:31] <t35t0r> he was talking about that crazy stuff in the cave
[07:32] <pyramid> t35t0r, well art can be very misleading...just becasue you label it ART doesn't mean it should have a HALO around it.
[07:32] <HrdwrBoB> but it doesn't mean you should be scared of looking at it
[07:32] <t35t0r> pyramid, no but it still can be appreciated ...nazi art is still art ..albeit grotesque
[07:32] <HrdwrBoB> because it might affect you
[07:32] <fable> pyramid: Most people look at art as a form of entertainment
[07:32] <LeeColleton> fabbione: yeah, it pops up a window labled "???" that is completely black
[07:32] <t35t0r> even the MS BSOD is a form of art
[07:32] <LeeColleton> Gives some errors about "no way to get: 384x288 32 bit TrueColor (LE: bgr-)"
[07:32] <fabbione> LeeColleton: please check the man page. I am sure that it can do it. I just can't remember the switches
[07:32] <q2> I LOVE BSOD!
[07:32] <pyramid> fable, well the Greeks have been asking for thousands of years what is entertainment...they tried drama, music, art, etc.
[07:33] <q2> FROM ALL OSs!
[07:33] <t35t0r> the white on blue relaxes you into thinking nothing is wrong
[07:33] <t35t0r> its interesting they could have made the screen RSOD 
[07:33] <t35t0r> red screen of death ..but made it blue ..calming
[07:33] <fable> Art can be seen as a expression through anything
[07:34] <fable> music, films, paintings, drawings, etc
[07:34] <t35t0r> even nix has it's black screen of death :>
[07:34] <LeeColleton> fabbione: the default device is /dev/video0, which is what came up in dmesg
[07:34] <t35t0r> i got one trying to modprobe linuxant's hsf winmodem drivers
[07:34] <LeeColleton> I think the issue is that the camera uses something called "bayer rgb"
[07:34] <t35t0r> I think that was too much taint for the kernel to handle
[07:34] <t35t0r> it just died
[07:34] <pyramid> my point is that ART conveys, biases,prejudices, propoganda and so on.
[07:34] <fable> Yeah it does...
[07:34] <fabbione> LeeColleton: unfortunatly i don't have a webcam to test with
[07:34] <t35t0r> pyramid, yea have you read MAUS
[07:35] <LeeColleton> none of the standard apps can read it, although v4l-info shows a bunch of information from the driver
[07:35] <fabbione> LeeColleton: the V4L is a standard. if the camera is hooked up, it should work.
[07:35] <pyramid> t35t0r, no I have not read MAUS...i don't wish to mess up my mind anymore with misleading thoughts,ideas,advice, and so on.
[07:35] <fabbione> LeeColleton: let me see if there is something we can try
[07:35] <fable> When the first release of Ubuntu are they sending cds out?
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, i woudln't blame you
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, in today's world of over extra sensory input
[07:36] <fable> because that would really help me with my dialup problem
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, sometimes ignorance can be...
[07:36] <pyramid> t35t0r, well after 20years of reading all kinds of crap...and getting a PhD...i prefer to concentrate on nothingness.
[07:36] <jgeorgeson> i don't see an rc.local file, what do i use in place of it?
[07:36] <t35t0r> pyramid, what was your phd in
[07:37] <fable> how can you concentrate on nothing
[07:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, honestly my PhD was in Skotology...if you know Greek.
[07:37] <fable> also brings up does "nothing" exist
[07:37] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i think you can try webcam or came
[07:37] <pyramid> t35t0r, that would be Skatology
[07:38] <pyramid> if you do not know Greek...then the study of S#!@t
[07:38] <t35t0r> pyramid, i didn't think you were serious at first i had to look it up
[07:38] <t35t0r> are you serious?
[07:38] <LeeColleton> fabbione: camE sez "/dev/video0: no v4l device" and webcam sez "can't get rgb24 data"
[07:39] <LeeColleton> I think they're stymied by the "bayer rgb" thing
[07:39] <t35t0r> pyramid, just my opinion but i don't see how anyone could study anything much more worthless
[07:39] <pyramid> t35t0r, well actually the University would not admit such a thing so they labeled it Finance and Economics and Physics and Psychology...but i call it all S#@!t.
[07:39] <jgeorgeson> so, what do i use in absence of rc.local?
[07:39] <t35t0r> ahhh i see
[07:39] <fable> Well im going...
[07:39] <t35t0r> quite the cynic are we
[07:39] <fable> see you all later
[07:39] <fable> can't wait to try Ubuntu
[07:40] <t35t0r> i hope i'm not cynical after i get my phd ..
[07:40] <t35t0r> or too cynical
[07:41] <pyramid> t35t0r, well when you study quantum chemistry and find out that space is missing and because of that electrons follow peculiar orbits around protons..and also if you study quantum physics and find out that space and time are curved and frame dragging may exist...and so on.
[07:41] <t35t0r> i want to do my masters in photonics
[07:41] <t35t0r> its a bit more practical
[07:42] <t35t0r> frame dragging ..is that anything like phase shifting?
[07:42] <pyramid> t35t0r, no it is more like a spinning object dragging empty space and time around with it.
[07:43] <t35t0r> pyramid, i can't wait for the LIGOS BOINC project to get going
[07:43] <HrdwrBoB> it's quite obvious everything is relative
[07:43] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i think i found something.. i am checking the documentation
[07:43] <sabdfl> morning fabbione
[07:43] <t35t0r> pyramid, have you heard about it?
[07:43] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, if everything is relative..then how can we agree on the speed of light.
[07:44] <HrdwrBoB> the whole point is that humans don't work well if they actually understand all sorts of things like that
[07:44] <pyramid> in a vacuum and for the average photon speed.
[07:44] <HrdwrBoB> so I have a suspicion that you've broken your brain
[07:44] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, yes i have been legally insane for 15 years now.
[07:44] <fabbione> sabdfl: good morning :-)
[07:44] <LeeColleton> fabbione: thank you for even looking, I think that the development version of xawtv has support for bayer rgb
[07:45] <HrdwrBoB> who's to say you can't build a universe where pi=72 and the speed of light is slightly less than it is now
[07:45] <fabbione> LeeColleton: you need this: http://go.lamarinapunto.com/modules/mydownloads/
[07:45] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, remember for a vacuum and average photon speed.
[07:45] <t35t0r> you mean the speed of light in a vacu,
[07:45] <t35t0r> uum
[07:45] <t35t0r> heh
[07:45] <fabbione> LeeColleton: it's a patched xawtv that supports the bayer rgb format AND v4l2
[07:45] <fabbione> LeeColleton: the driver should be ok. 
[07:46] <fabbione> LeeColleton: but there are updated sn9c10x drivers too.
[07:46] <t35t0r> c = sqrt (relative permeability * relative permittivity) ?
[07:46] <topyli> HrdwrBoB: well, i can't do it, that's pretty sure (for now)
[07:46] <t35t0r> i think that's correct
[07:46] <LeeColleton> fabbione: should I uninstall the prepackaged version of xawtv?
[07:46] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, if you want to talk about individual photons going faster or slower than light this does not necessarily affect the average.
[07:46] <fabbione> LeeColleton: up to you.. i would first try to compile the new xawtv and run it in the local/build dir
[07:46] <fabbione> LeeColleton: there is no real need to de-install the other one
[07:47] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: no, what about a theoreticaly unverse that has different constants
[07:47] <LeeColleton> yeah, I guess I could just leave it in /usr/local/bin
[07:47] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well you can construct anything in your mind but if you make it phsical the big bang might destroy it.
[07:48] <HrdwrBoB> but if you can think it, then it can be
[07:48] <HrdwrBoB> because the only truly existing world is the world inside your head
[07:48] <HrdwrBoB> everything else could be lies
[07:48] <LeeColleton> does the steady state model of the universe still hold any credence?  or is it on par with the flat earth theory
[07:49] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well notice that the earth could in fact be flat with round edges.
[07:49] <LeeColleton> the world is topologically flat (except for tunnels)
[07:50] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, in fact the width of the earth could actually just be a dot to a fast traveler.
[07:50] <t35t0r> pyramid, you would like the "you don't know bleep movie" 
[07:50] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's all about reality in a "quantum" universe
[07:51] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, just oversimplifying with some risk the Lorentz contraction.
[07:51] <LeeColleton> fabbione: when I try to ./configure then make xawtv I get "make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/3.2.2/include/stddef.h', needed by `console/dump-mixers.o'.  Stop."
[07:51] <pyramid> t35t0r, well Planck was always bothered about the time.
[07:51] <t35t0r> http://www.whatthebleep.com/
[07:51] <fabbione> LeeColleton: amen :-) that needs some work
[07:52] <t35t0r> pyramid, i have to run a perl script on this nix box every 30 mins to set its time 
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: http://www.dougaustin.com/tlcaves/pdf/Thefearofdarkness.pdf
[07:52] <t35t0r> i mean on this winxp laptop
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> that is the source of that story
[07:52] <LeeColleton> fabbione: so, can I comment something out?  this seems to be needed for redhat but maybe not debian?
[07:52] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i can try to look at it later. but it won't be before a few hours
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> which is entirely a work of fiction
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> (though a good one)
[07:52] <fabbione> LeeColleton: i need to look at the code
[07:52] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, i prefer to worry about that individual that wondered into the cave in www.holyshiite.com/caver
[07:52] <t35t0r> pyramid, how was planck botherd about time
[07:52] <fabbione> LeeColleton: difficult to say without ;)
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> er
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> no
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> the link I pasted is a short story almost exactly the same as that story
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> which predates it by ... a long time
[07:53] <pyramid> t35t0r, well planck was convinced that elements of time do not exist at all..that it may occur only in quantum intervals.
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> yes, the instant of time
[07:53] <HrdwrBoB> the tick of the universe
[07:53] <t35t0r> pyramid, well that's precisely the theory behind quantum / atomic clocks is it not?
[07:54] <ionrock> does anyone know how I can get tap support on my touchpad?
[07:54] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well if time and space are missing...what is in their place.
[07:54] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: magic
[07:54] <ionrock> I looked at tpconfig but there is some issue with 2.6 and how it handles the mouse that makes it not really work.
[07:54] <t35t0r> ionrock, when i just tap the touchpad it double clicks you mean
[07:54] <t35t0r> ionrock, fix i
[07:54] <t35t0r> ionrock, fix it
[07:54] <ionrock> t35t0r, yeah
[07:55] <ionrock> It won't click now
[07:55] <t35t0r> i've never tried that on my laptop
[07:55] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well magic is another way of saying that something might be going on at www.holyshiite.com/caver
[07:55] <t35t0r> i always use an external mouse
[07:55] <t35t0r> then again i never really use my laptop on my lap
[07:55] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: no, that would be bloody mindedness
[07:55] <t35t0r> it's just a desktop replacement
[07:55] <ionrock> t35t0r, I am using mine on my lap right now :)
[07:56] <t35t0r> ionrock, yea thought so ..don't burn your testicles off
[07:56] <t35t0r> ionrock, or your werr .weell
[07:56] <ionrock> I noticed in my xf86config that the mouse is setup as a IMPS or whatever it is instead of a touchpad.
[07:56] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well it is a fact that even if we had an earlier sun that exploded after creating the heavier elements and formed our planets and everything we see around us..still how did living bacteria and algae form out of inorganic elements.
[07:56] <ionrock> I am thinking changeing that would do it
[07:57] <ionrock> I just wish I had a little more insight on the topci
[07:57] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's chance
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: yes, and I agree that it's certainly odd
[07:57] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, think about this seriously...because even if we are just an evolved form of stinking bacteria...still that bacteria had something magical about it.
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> but if you're using that as a reason to beleive in that story when it's obviously plagiariesd
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> it makes you an idiot
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: I could not agree more
[07:57] <t35t0r> pyramid, its statistical probability that if you put such and such chemicals together they will combine to form amino acids ...proteins ..cells etc
[07:58] <t35t0r> pyramid, i'm sure you know that there has been work at creating "life in a bottle"
[07:58] <t35t0r> pyramid, but it takes billions of years
[07:58] <pyramid> t35t0r, you are referring to very complex molecular behavior even in simple bacteria...how did atoms get up and decide to get together to form living breathing eating crapping bacteria.
[07:58] <t35t0r> pyramid, you don't know much about biology
[07:59] <t35t0r> pyramid, i work in a protein crystallography lab ..
[07:59] <pyramid> t35t0r, even with trillions of years...how did inorganic elements get up and collect together in very sophisticated patterns.
[07:59] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's statistical probability ..and to you statistics is probably a "bunch of lies"
[07:59] <t35t0r> so i can't expect you to understand ..you're too preconditioned
[07:59] <pyramid> t35t0r, lies, damn lies, and more damn lies.
[07:59] <LeeColleton> pyramid: uh.. have you ever seen crystals form?  
[07:59] <t35t0r> i thought so hehe
[08:00] <LeeColleton> crystals form by magic.  PFM
[08:00] <t35t0r> i can't blame you .. i really hate statistics
[08:00] <pyramid> LeeColleton, i am talking about living/breating,eating,crapping bacteria...not inorganic crystals.
[08:00] <t35t0r> its my worst subject
[08:00] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's the same process
[08:00] <pyramid> LeeColleton, everyday the bacteria takes a crap in your mouth.
[08:01] <t35t0r> pyramid, what are the bacteria made of
[08:01] <LeeColleton> pyramid: the difference between crystal formation and organic self-assembly is slight
[08:01] <pyramid> t35t0r, no not even with the wildest imagination is it the same process...heat a rock all you want..does it come alive.
[08:01] <t35t0r> pyramid, it's not jut simply heating a rock
[08:01] <pyramid> t35t0r, ok put pressure on a rock all you want ...does it come alive.
[08:01] <LeeColleton> in a sense, we are all huge liquid crystals due to the properties of the continuious connective tissues throughout our bodies
[08:02] <t35t0r> pyramid, once again you are completely misrepresenting it
[08:02] <t35t0r> its not just a rock
[08:02] <LeeColleton> collagen is a superconductor of high freq at room temperatures
[08:02] <t35t0r> it's a collection of elements in the right amount namely C H N O P & S
[08:02] <pyramid> t35t0r, i am not misrepresenting it...the point is that we know life came to this earth...since it did it could have come again and manifested itself inside the Virgin Mary.
[08:02] <t35t0r> that make life .."as we know it" ..i can't speak for Si based life if there is such a thng
[08:03] <t35t0r> oh great
[08:03] <t35t0r> i'm not discussing this any further
[08:03] <t35t0r> hhe
[08:03] <pyramid> t35t0r, think about the sophistication of even a simple molecule like DNA....how could atomic elements get up one day and organize themselves into such complex and brilliant patterns.
[08:04] <t35t0r> pyramid, because its one of the most efficient ways to organize that much dat
[08:04] <t35t0r> a
[08:04] <t35t0r> it's a matter of evolution
[08:04] <pyramid> t35t0r, rocks don't evolve to become alive.
[08:04] <t35t0r> if you know aything about life and how it supposedly began
[08:05] <t35t0r> cells didn't even use DNA in their very infancy
[08:05] <t35t0r> they used RNA
[08:05] <t35t0r> to hold their genetic information
[08:05] <pyramid> t35t0r, you might explain the inorganic elements we find but not the appearance of organic life.
[08:05] <daWhippa> it began with God at his *NIX terminal
[08:05] <t35t0r> and RNA is much less advanced ..but cells did this for millions of years ..then it became DNA during the course of evolution
[08:06] <t35t0r> pyramid, no ..only god can ..since once again its statistical
[08:06] <pyramid> t35t0r, even RNA is a brilliant molecular structure
[08:06] <t35t0r> pyramid, brilliant yes ..but as you said it ..not as complex as dna
[08:06] <t35t0r> i could easily see how RNA could have formed itself
[08:06] <t35t0r> that's why i avidly believe that we are not  alone in this universe hhe
[08:07] <pyramid> t35t0r, you see it seems to take very sophisticated patterns to sustain life....how could inorganic elements decide to get together and form these kinds of patterns.
[08:07] <t35t0r> bah i can't discuss anythign with you
[08:07] <fridge> rhythmbox really needs to come with more radio station presets
[08:07] <daWhippa> it aint so much the molecular structures that are amazing as the replication processes
[08:07] <t35t0r> pyramid, i'm just trying to give you a scientific explanation believe it or not doesn't matter
[08:07] <pyramid> t35t0r, that is fine..that you believe life came from somewhere else in the universe but how did stinking bacteria form there....life came...we know that..and it may have come again in the Virgin Mary.
[08:07] <ionrock> does anyone know why I get an error when trying to apt-get update with the universe sources? I get a gzip error, as though the pkg list is messed up or something
[08:08] <t35t0r> no i didn't say life came here from somewhere in the universe
[08:08] <pyramid> Jesus said he alone was Life....he was not willing to share this title with anyone else.
[08:08] <HrdwrBoB> oh yay
[08:08] <HrdwrBoB> religion
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> the bible is a book.
[08:09] <t35t0r> i said that since life formed here from elementary elements -> rna -> dna etc i think its highly probable that it exists elsewhere in the universe
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> written by men.
[08:09] <HrdwrBoB> end of story.
[08:09] <t35t0r> yea i don't know where the virgin mary should come up in the context of this discussion
[08:09] <pyramid> t35t0r, elements can't organize into living patterns....whether here or somewhere else.
[08:09] <t35t0r> i have the utmost respect for catholics
[08:09] <opi> http://grgaud.exchristian.info/
[08:09] <opi> ;-)
[08:10] <Xyverz> is it possible to convert an existing debian box to ubuntu? is that in the documentation anywhere?
[08:10] <Xyverz> (we're talking debian sarge)
[08:10] <t35t0r> Xyverz, heh i still don't understand the difference between debian and ubuntu
[08:11] <t35t0r> it uses apt-get / dpkg as its main package management..are some startup/user scripts different?
[08:11] <LeeColleton> Xyverz: it isn't safe to do so at this time.  Recommend you do a clean install
[08:11] <Xyverz> hmmmm
[08:11] <Xyverz> I was considering it on my laptop, but no CD drive.
[08:11] <Xyverz> well, that and my laptop is too slow to comfortable run GNOME anyway.
[08:11] <Xyverz> hmmm
[08:11] <topyli> Xyverz: some packages are named differently, so there may be confusion. script, persmission differences as well
[08:11] <Xyverz> maybe I'll just keep it at sarge for the time being.
[08:11] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: ubuntu is debian on a fixed release schedule.
[08:12] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, ahh i see now
[08:12] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, will it be possible to update just using apt-get ?
[08:12] <opi> backup -- try it -- report back :)
[08:12] <LeeColleton> plus it's supported by a profit motivated corporation (Canonical Inc.)
[08:13] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: yes.  same tools, different repositories.
[08:13] <LeeColleton> standard debian packages can be installed on an ubuntu system but it isn't advised
[08:13] <t35t0r> LeeColleton, well im seeing that currently there is no bleeding edge support
[08:13] <t35t0r> like xorg 6.8 etc
[08:13] <t35t0r> or am i wrong ? ...as far as apt-get packages are concerned
[08:14] <t35t0r> for the ubuntu repository
[08:14] <LeeColleton> dpkg only handles dependencies based on version numbers, so it's thrown off by the repackaging into PACKAGE-ubuntuX.Y.Z
[08:14] <t35t0r> its not really bleeding edge since i think xorg 6.8+ i'm not sure what minor version it is ..my cygwin is at xorg 6.8.0.1 or something hehe
[08:15] <LeeColleton> t35t0r: ubuntu is a subset of debian, with some bugs fixed
[08:15] <Elim_ppc>  could someone tell me if the /boot/.map files which should be in lilo.conf is that the system.map-kernel-2.6.8 file?
[08:15] <LeeColleton> so, no; they might not have the same bleeding edge experimental software that you can get on a straight debian system
[08:16] <t35t0r> Elim_ppc, huh
[08:16] <t35t0r> Elim_ppc, those map files have nothing to do wit hthe boot loader
[08:16] <Elim_ppc> im doing a x86 install and i need to configure thelilo.conf
[08:17] <t35t0r> ok?
[08:17] <bob2> Elim_ppc: no you don't.
[08:17] <bob2> Elim_ppc: ubuntu uses grub, and sets it up for you by default.
[08:17] <Elim_ppc> well all i get is 99 9 9 9 99 so yes i do
[08:17] <bob2> Elim_ppc: grub didn't install itself successfully?
[08:18] <Elim_ppc> can't handle grub its confusing
[08:18] <bob2> Elim_ppc: what's confusing about it?
[08:18] <Elim_ppc> no it all went pear shaped with grub
[08:19] <Elim_ppc> i think its the way it labels the hard drives really odd i dont know how it works
[08:20] <giorsat> serious bug of ubuntu in a sis chipset. at first boot even with noapic nolapic nopcmcia apci=off in grub the sistem hangs with a usb1-1 timeout in usbepoin.out. I dont' know what to do. any help will be welcomed as soon as it comes. please..
[08:21] <t35t0r> girosat: what's the SIS chipset
[08:21] <Elim_ppc> ill go on google again and keep searching.
[08:21] <LeeColleton> Elim_ppc: just run "update-grub" and forget about it
[08:21] <LeeColleton> "sudo update-grub"
[08:21] <bob2> giorsat: has someone filed that bug yet?
[08:22] <giorsat> sis 5530. it works with mandrake 10 (kernel 2.6.3) 
[08:22] <bob2> Elim_ppc: if the default grub config doesn't work, it's a serious bug; can you double-check and file a bug please?
[08:22] <giorsat> it's a all in one computer lcd with sis650 graphic card. I know for sure pcmcia gives problems. bios doesn't allow to do mauch
[08:23] <giorsat> no filed bug. where?
[08:24] <Elim_ppc> ill file a bug in a minute i just want to try and get it working to see if it was my fault which it probably was.
[08:25] <t35t0r> giorsat, what's the kernel on the ubuntu?
[08:26] <Elim_ppc> 2.6.8.1 or similar.
[08:27] <giorsat> 2.6.8.1 the one of ubuntu previe 4.10
[08:27] <t35t0r> sometimes having usb support built into the kernel or as module vice versa has these kinds of problems
[08:27] <t35t0r> so toggle it
[08:28] <giorsat> how to toggle?
[08:28] <t35t0r> make menuconfig from /usr/src/linux
[08:28] <t35t0r> i'm sure you've configured you're own kernel before?
[08:29] <t35t0r> if its built into the kernel compile it as a module
[08:29] <bob2> Elim_ppc: the default grub config should work.  did you change it?
[08:29] <Elim_ppc> i have a felling it might be grub  from sid....
[08:29] <giorsat> never compiled anything. how can I if I don't' boot?
[08:30] <t35t0r> ohh boy
[08:30] <bob2> Elim_ppc: did you install ubuntu or upgrade from sid?
[08:30] <Elim_ppc> sid
[08:30] <t35t0r> figure out how to compile your own kernel ..
[08:30] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you seem bothered by the fact that the bible was written by men....but remember these were not ordinary men...they were inspired by something capable of existing over eons of time
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> I know people that have taken acid
[08:31] <fridge> I've taken heaps of acid
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> tell me you wouldn't be hallucinating after 40 days without food
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> a man is a man.
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> end of story
[08:31] <fridge> thats a funny story
[08:31] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well i fail to see what acid has to do with Elias especially since he chose to be sawed in half...ordinary men don't do these things.
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[08:32] <fridge> why is ubuntu discussin religion?
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> do you know much about hallucinogenic drugs?
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> fridge: good question
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: timecube.com
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> that site is for you
[08:33] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, Jesus said that he alone in the entire universe was life...he said before the universe was...I am...and that he was the alpha and the omega...the beginning and the end of all things.
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> I can say that too
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> but you would dismiss me as a fucking crackhead
[08:33] <topyli> fridge: desmond tutu inspiration is starting to take over at #ubuntu :)
[08:33] <HrdwrBoB> so I put it to you that jesus was a crackhead
[08:33] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, not really...did i dismiss the person at www.holyshiite.com/caver
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> no but I did because it's a fiction story
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> stolen from elsewhere
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> and butchered to suit
[08:34] <fridge> topyli, haha
[08:34] <HrdwrBoB> *fictional
[08:34] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well your belief system won't allow you to analyze the facts because how could it be fiction if it was unfinished.
[08:35] <LeeColleton> pyramid: I'm noticing a trend; you seem to be taken in easily by fictional stories
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> my beleif system told me to do a fucking basic search on google before accepting it was true
[08:35] <t35t0r> hahahaha
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> which showed another story
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> written YEARS earlier
[08:35] <LeeColleton> pyramid: Okay, I've got one...
[08:35] <HrdwrBoB> which was almost identical
[08:35] <pyramid> LeeColleton, well...to me fiction is how the inorganic elements formed SUFFICIENTLY COMPEX molecules in order to sustain life.
[08:36] <topyli> HrdwrBoB: doesn't make it untrue. or true. it's up to you
[08:36] <giorsat> so... what can I do? or where find info ?
[08:36] <topyli> HrdwrBoB: Hrdwr_BoB very much fucks up my tab completion
[08:36] <HrdwrBoB> yeah sorry about that, that's me at home
[08:36] <LeeColleton> pyramid: what does sufficiently complex mean?  Sufficient to overcome your deliberate disbelief?
[08:37] <t35t0r> pyramid, simply because you or i cannot understand doesn't mean there isn't a scientific explanation
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> topyli: it makes it so incredibly unlikely to be true that it should be assumed that it isn't unless it's proven otherwise
[08:37] <topyli> and HrdwrBoB is supposed to be someone who doesn't believe in supernatural things!
[08:37] <fridge> but, in absence of that explanation
[08:37] <pyramid> LeeColleton, no the molecules must be very strategically put together to have SUFFICIENT complexity to SUSTAIN life.
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> especially given that that's a mirror or the site which also links to something awful
[08:37] <t35t0r> science and western religions always have a difficult time ..this is not so with eastern cultures
[08:37] <topyli> two places at the same time!
[08:37] <fridge> saying god created it is just as valid as saying that theres an unexplained scientific phenonema at work
[08:38] <pyramid> LeeColleton, if they cannot sustain life it would cease to exist.
[08:38] <HrdwrBoB> t35t0r: indeed
[08:38] <HrdwrBoB> topyli: OMG! :)
[08:38] <topyli> heh
[08:38] <LeeColleton> pyramid: okay, here's a great fiction:  One day, a ball of clay was covered by crystaline RNA that attracted free floating ammino acids which folded up into protiens and encapsulated the RNA and the ball of clay.  Thusly the first "living" cell was born out of "non-living" matter.
[08:39] <LeeColleton> Voila, life.
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> no
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> that's not true
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> I made life
[08:39] <|trey|> I have tried suns and blackdowns java... for some reason, it is deciding not to let me launch yahoo's java games (firefox dies instantaniously), anyone know what I could try, this has Just Work'ed TM in the past  :/
[08:39] <|trey|> (symlinked as required)
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: launched firefox on a console to see what the error is?
[08:39] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you still miss the point where and how did the RNA form
[08:39] <|trey|> Java is working on other sites
[08:39] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: I made it
[08:40] <bob2> |trey|: did you get the right version of the JRE?
[08:40] <wig> hey, i orderd the cds. how long that take to get to my ass?
[08:40] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, then you are God.
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> correct
[08:40] <|trey|> bob2: before last install, this exact version worked...
[08:40] <bob2> wig: they'll be shipping soon after warty releases on the fifteenth of october.
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> now we're getting somewhere
[08:40] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you see protein folding doesn't explain life.
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> ah but I can fold space
[08:40] <HrdwrBoB> he who controls the spice controls the universe!
[08:41] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you can't even fold space where it doesn't exist.
[08:41] <HrdwrBoB> that's what you think
[08:41] <wig> how many cds you allowed to order?
[08:41] <bob2> wig: how many do you want?
[08:41] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: hmm, running it from the console fixes it... still not working from launcher in panel though, weird...
[08:41] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: haha heisenberg attacks again
[08:41] <wig> bob2, lol. i was just wondering how much they could do. cause remember that microsoft guy and he orderd 150?
[08:42] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, the only thing Heisenberg got right was that we will be uncertain.
[08:42] <bob2> wig: I'm sure lots of MS people have ordered Ubuntu cds.
[08:42] <wig> bob2, no i mean the sp2 cds
[08:42] <wig> bob2, some guy ordered 150
[08:42] <bob2> wig: sp2 = Windows Service Pack 2?
[08:42] <t35t0r> wth would ms people do with ubuntu
[08:42] <wig> bob2, yeah
[08:42] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: thats annoying... cept its saying something about maybe I'm behind a firewall? can't connect still... this is going to make me mad, yahoo pool is my time killer  :(
[08:42] <bob2> wig: oh, ok...
[08:43] <wig> bob2, yeah, he ordered 150
[08:43] <wig> cost m$ 1052 dollars. i ordered five myself.
[08:43] <wig> (the limit)
[08:43] <LeeColleton> the fact that space doesn't exist makes it so much easier to fold.
[08:43] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: are you behind a firewall?
[08:43] <t35t0r> maybe he has a beowulf cluster 
[08:44] <pyramid> LeeColleton, i fail to see how you manipulate something that doesn't exist in certain areas for you to have it to manipulate.
[08:44] <aspro> Hello
[08:45] <jalil> hello all
[08:45] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, you see the bible was not written by one man...buy by many speaking with one constant voice over eons of time.
[08:45] <aspro> can anybody point me to where i might be able to configure sound card settings on ubuntu, i cant get my sound blaster audigy to play sound
[08:45] <neighborlee> where do I get  kernel source package for ubuntu ? ( 2.6.8)..i'm not finding it in apt 
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: you don't know that
[08:46] <HrdwrBoB> neighborlee: it should be on the CD now iirc
[08:46] <bob2> neighborlee: linux-source-2.6.8.1-3 or so
[08:46] <bob2> aspro: it wasn't setup automatically?
[08:46] <neighborlee> nope..uname -r shows: 2.6.8.1-2-386
[08:46] <neighborlee> ill check cd 
[08:46] <aspro> well it was, along with about 7 other devices, and i think it may be playing to the wrong one
[08:46] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, yes i do....take the predicions of Isaiah...follow time to see that the constant voice was again and again...through many people....and remember Jesus said I AM.
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I AM
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I said that too
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> ^ see
[08:47] <bwlang> uh... this channel is about ubuntu linux right?
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> it's even logged
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> bwlang: ubuntu and existenialism :/
[08:47] <neighborlee> heh
[08:47] <t35t0r> identity is formed by community ? wow never would have guessed that
[08:47] <bob2> bwlang: yes, but there's lots of off-topic chatter at the moment
[08:47] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well remember what Moses reported hearing and then I AM will begin to make sense.
[08:48] <aspro> so, no manual config program? like, say the Red Hat sound config program?
[08:48] <bob2> aspro: no
[08:48] <bob2> aspro: if it didn't get it to work by default, please file a bug
[08:48] <aspro> dang, well ill have to keep fiddling ;)
[08:48] <aspro> i dont think its a bug
[08:48] <bob2> aspro: if sound doesn't Just Work, it's a bug
[08:49] <bob2> (imho)
[08:49] <aspro> no, i have more than one soundcard installed
[08:49] <aspro> (cant remove onbaord)
[08:49] <neighborlee> HrdwrBoB, its not on cd...the cd is in my sources.list yet its only showing up to 2.6.7 ;-)
[08:49] <bwlang> aspro: you can probably disable it completey in the bios ...
[08:49] <aspro> probably
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> neighborlee: oh, that sucks, it will be in the repo though
[08:50] <t35t0r> "A self-sufficient human being is subhuman. I have gifts that you do not have, so consequently, I am unique--you have gifts that I do not have, so you are unique. God has made us so that we will need each other. We are made for a delicate network of interdependence." ..so am i to assume i will get no RTFM's in this channel no matter how ridiculously inept the question is ? hehhehe
[08:50] <neighborlee> HrdwrBoB, well oddly enough I can't find 2.6.8 source 'anywhere'
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> t35t0r: we are but human
[08:50] <t35t0r> Hrdwr_BoB, so says Tutu
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> one of our faults may be intolerance of stupidity :)
[08:50] <bob2> neighborlee: linux-source-2.6.8.1 - Linux kernel source for version 2.6.8.1 with Debian patches
[08:50] <bwlang> t35t0r: what's that quote from? 
[08:50] <bob2> neighborlee: (as I said before)
[08:50] <t35t0r> bwlang, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/books/ubuntutheology
[08:51] <topyli> tutu sounds like marx :)
[08:51] <t35t0r> he sounds like he's ahead of his time
[08:52] <HrdwrBoB> not reall
[08:52] <HrdwrBoB> y
[08:52] <t35t0r> topyli, i hope you don't equate marx with communism
[08:52] <HrdwrBoB> humans have not really changed over the last few thousand years
[08:52] <nux> how to i register as a member of the Ubuntu community???  i cant find anything on the website
[08:52] <topyli> t35t0r: surely not. not really with christianity either
[08:53] <t35t0r> topyli, rockefeller had the same ideals
[08:54] <topyli> t35t0r: ideals scmideals. i'm interested in his analysis :)
[08:54] <t35t0r> his analysis being that we can learn a great deal from each other ..to always look for the best in others
[08:54] <t35t0r> "what can i learn from this dude"
[08:54] <t35t0r> put bluntly
[08:54] <topyli> oh you mean tutu. i'm talking about marx
[08:55] <neighborlee> I presume the kernel source for ubuntu would be in warty right?..problem is apt-get update keeps giving me this for warty:: Err http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main Sources
[08:55] <neighborlee>   Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[08:55] <t35t0r> ahh he was a socialist utopian
[08:56] <topyli> marx? certainly not. he did analysis of capitalism, that's all really
[08:56] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: happening again, says "Allocating more space for read msg 231; Segmentation fault" -- hopefully this is more enlightening for you then it is for me...
[08:56] <t35t0r> i'm sure he had to to look at both sides ..but a socialist he very much was
[08:56] <|trey|> Just tells me it died, I could see that  :/
[08:56] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: unfortunately not
[08:57] <LeeColleton> nux: the Ubuntu communtiy is more a frame of mind than a roll call.  You can sign up for the mailing list or make a page on the Wiki or something.  There isn't an offical community members list AFAIK
[08:57] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: that sucks... for some reason, it appears to work on the 20th try each time  :/
[08:57] <|trey|> Annoying  :/
[08:57] <bwlang> |trey|: segmentation fault means that the program has attempted to allocate memory that is already owned by another process... the OS disallows it... There is a bug in the program you're running
[08:58] <|trey|> I hate these little surprises when I reinstall  :/
[08:58] <Treenaks> LeeColleton: .. and why would there be :)
[08:58] <nux> how to i register as a member of the Ubuntu maintainer community???  i cant find anything on the website
[08:58] <|trey|> bwlang: I know what a seg fault is... I meant it doesn't enlighten me as to how to fix it... its official java... not much you can do  :/
[08:59] <LeeColleton> Treenaks: so we can be rounded up and arrested more easily?
[08:59] <|trey|> nux: on the site, under community >> participate
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> because we are all subverting the common good
[09:00] <LeeColleton> Freelance Subversion
[09:00] <jblack> Darnit. I can't get my printer to work.
[09:00] <|trey|> nux: also maintainers in the same list you found participate
[09:00] <LeeColleton> jblack: is it at least collecting unemployment?
[09:00] <jblack> Works fine on another machine with magicfilter, but doesn't work with cups on ubuntu. 
[09:00] <jblack> leecolleton: Nope.
[09:00] <LeeColleton> jblack: throw the bum out!
[09:00] <jblack> but if I don't get it to work, then I might.
[09:01] <bwlang> jblack: what happens... 
[09:01] <LeeColleton> jblack: ...when you run Computer > System Configuration > Printing
[09:02] <jblack> D [04/Oct/2004:03:02:22 -0400]  [Job 10]  Process dying with "The renderer command line
[09:02] <jblack>  returned an unrecognized error code 255.", exit stat: 1
[09:03] <LeeColleton> jblack: what kind of printer is it?
[09:03] <jblack> Lee, actually, I'm not using gnome. But the same should still hold because cups is involved.
[09:03] <jblack> lee: Its an epson stylus color 820. Its worked with magicfilter and lprng for ages on another machine.
[09:03] <topyli> jblack: why not use magicfilter and lprng then?
[09:03] <bwlang> jblack: are you printing from windows?
[09:03] <jblack> D [04/Oct/2004:03:02:22 -0400]  [Job 10]  renderer command:
[09:03] <jblack> D [04/Oct/2004:03:02:22 -0400]  [Job 10]  renderer return value: 255
[09:04] <Treenaks> jblack: maybe you're missing a program magicfilter requires?
[09:04] <jblack> topyli: Because that machine is in the basement. I'd like the printer here with this machine. :) 
[09:04] <Treenaks> (ghostscript, for example)
[09:04] <toolchest> alright, just trying out ubuntu... where's modconf???
[09:04] <jblack> treenaks: No. It works fine with magicfilter on the old machine. On this machine, which has ubuntu on it, printing no go.
[09:04] <Treenaks> toolchest: you don't need it, everything is loaded/detected automgically
[09:04] <Treenaks> toolchest: otherwise, edit /etc/modules manually
[09:04] <topyli> jblack: so? use lprng on the ubuntu box too
[09:05] <jblack> Well, Mark told me that cups was great, so I'm trying to get it to work. :) 
[09:05] <toolchest> Treenaks: ok.
[09:05] <topyli> jblack: doesn't seem so great though does it?
[09:06] <topyli> jblack: i tried cups too, now i'm running lpr :)
[09:06] <bwlang> jblack: i know cups works with your printer... - how is your printer connected?
[09:06] <jblack> bwlang: I've tried two ways, one through a parallel cable hooked up to a docking stations (which seems to be a usb device) and via a usb cable. 
[09:07] <bwlang> try this to be sure that your computer is recognizing the printer... unplug the usb cable and plug it back in.
[09:08] <bwlang> jblack: then run 'dmesg' from a command prompt... you should see something about the printer in the last couple of lines
[09:08] <jblack> Yes. when I remove the computer from the docking station, /dev/lp0 and /dev/lp1 disapear, and when I plug it back in, they show back up
[09:09] <jblack> Here's one:
[09:09] <jblack> usb 7-1: new full speed USB device using address 3
[09:09] <jblack> drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 3 if 0 alt 1 proto 2
[09:09] <jblack>  vid 0x067B pid 0x2305
[09:09] <jblack> and here's the other:
[09:09] <jblack> usb 4-4.1: new full speed USB device using address 12
[09:09] <jblack> drivers/usb/class/usblp.c: usblp0: USB Bidirectional printer dev 12 if 0 alt 0 proto
[09:09] <jblack> 2 vid 0x04B8 pid 0x0005
[09:09] <bwlang> jblack: okay so remember usblp0
[09:09] <bwlang> go to this web page  http://localhost:631/
[09:09] <|trey|> jblack: the removal and appearance of the printer is normal via sysfs/udev
[09:09] <jblack> You mean /dev/usb/lp0 and /dev/usb/lp1 ? 
[09:10] <jblack> bwlang: Ok. I'm there
[09:10] <bwlang> jblack: go to the manage printers link... 
[09:11] <jblack> Ok. I'm there.
[09:11] <bwlang> jblack: then click on modify button for your pinter
[09:11] <jblack> It says the device URI is usb://EPSON/Stylus%20Photo%20820
[09:11] <jblack> and it says the printer state is idle and accepting jobs
[09:12] <bwlang> jblack: you should get a page with a name... just conitnue..
[09:12] <jblack> Actually, when I clicked on "manage printers" It took me to a page showing epson.
[09:12] <jblack> regarding continue, I don't see a continue button
[09:12] <jblack> I can print a test page, reject jobs, modify printer, etc.
[09:13] <bwlang> jblack: i'm about to lose my battery power ... jblack: then click on modify button for your pinter
[09:13] <soleblaze> is there a package for the kernel source used with ubuntu?
[09:13] <jblack> wants a username and password.
[09:14] <bwlang> somebodyl else will have to take over... use your username and password... i'm outtta juice
[09:14] <bwlang> good luck
[09:14] <jblack> thanks
[09:14] <jedi> is this the official home of the ubuntu live cd?: http://people.no-name-yet.com/~mdz/ubuntu-live/current/
[09:15] <|trey|> jedi: mdz is usually here... I don't think thats an official part of ubuntu yet...
[09:15] <LeeColleton> jedi: you mean http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/ubuntu-live/current/ ?
[09:15] <Mithrandir> jedi: it's not official as it is fairly outdated; we'll be having an official livecd at some point
[09:16] <jedi> ok thanks all!
[09:17] <|trey|> speak of the devil  :)
[09:18] <LeeColleton> might the acpi interface be fixed to support the IBM thinkpad X30?  I'm getting really tired of shutting down my laptop whenever I move it.
[09:18] <jedi> hehe
[09:18] <|trey|> mdz: jedi here is wondering about the ubuntu livecd  :)
[09:18] <LeeColleton> I've tried booting with acpi=off and loading the apm module but the machine hangs with a black screen on resume
[09:19] <mdz> |trey|: we have a new live CD release which should go up today
[09:19] <jblack> Hmmm. I wonder if having cupsys-driver-gimpprint would help
[09:19] <mdz> v5
[09:19] <|trey|> mdz: yay  :)
[09:19] <jedi> awesome!
[09:19] <clee> mdz: so when are the shipit CDs going out? :)
[09:19] <mdz> clee: once we have a final release to put on them :-)
[09:19] <clee> mdz: so... tomorrow? :)
[09:20] <mdz> clee: 13 October
[09:20] <mdz> is the target
[09:20] <clee> mdz: dude, sweet.
[09:20] <LeeColleton> mdz: great!  That's just in time for the NWSocialForum
[09:21] <|trey|> LeeColleton: makes sense, a lot of things will probably get better set up at release time... right now its a very young project  :)
[09:22] <LeeColleton> |trey|: http://planet.ubuntulinux.org/
[09:23] <Treenaks> |trey|: "fedorazine" sounds like some kind of medication
[09:23] <|trey|> Treenaks: heh... www.fedorazine.com
[09:23] <|trey|> LeeColleton: thanks  :)  still not really the same, but I enjoy reading planets  :)
[09:24] <joem> eww, that site has way to much going on
[09:24] <joem> makes my eyes bleed
[09:24] <|trey|> joem: heh... just saying the stuff on the right  :)
[09:24] <|trey|> the left is kinda busy though  :/
[09:25] <tvon> tis a bit much...the double-left-column thing only really works well when they are very cleanly done
[09:26] <bob2> LeeColleton: is suspend under linux known to work on your on your laptop?
[09:27] <soleblaze> hey what do i need to put in the source.list file for the archive.debian.com mirror?
[09:27] <bob2> soleblaze: you mean ubuntu?
[09:27] <tvon> soleblaze: not a good idea unless you really know what you are doing...buuuuuut: 
[09:27] <bob2> soleblaze: uncomment the lines for universe that are there.
[09:27] <tvon> #deb     http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
[09:28] <soleblaze> i'm trying to get this working via a diskless setup
[09:28] <mdz> |trey|: we have Ubuntu Traffic for that
[09:28] <soleblaze> and i'm working on it inbetween the first and second install part.. and it didn't have source.list setup
[09:28] <soleblaze> i gota friend to send me it..thanks
[09:29] <jblack> whoo. I got print
[09:29] <tvon> ignore what I pasted then
[09:29] <LeeColleton> bob2: yes.  It's worked with Redhat and Debian for the past two years
[09:29] <tvon> soleblaze: http://paste.plone.org/1618
[09:29] <bob2> LeeColleton: fil a bug on the linux-image package
[09:29] <LeeColleton> Never got it to work with acpi but apm has been fine
[09:30] <kremlyn> Wow the take-up for ubuntu is phenomenal.
[09:30] <tvon> kremlyn: it took Gentoo 3 slashdottings to get this many people into IRC :-D
[09:31] <kremlyn> I wonder if ubuntu will ever compete with Fedora
[09:31] <bob2> it already competes with Fedora
[09:31] <kremlyn> It's got a much better base to start with ;-)
[09:32] <soleblaze> diskless is a major pita to setup 
[09:36] <|trey|> grrr @ java still... we really need a package in universe that doesn't suck... I'm on my 4th or 5th different external source, and I'm about to start shooting people  :'(
[09:37] <|trey|> All doing the same thing... I don't get it  :(  maybe is yahoo's fault, but it works like 1/30 tries... odd  :(
[09:38] <fabbione> |trey| java packages that i use: deb http://jrfonseca.dyndns.org/debian ./
[09:38] <jblack> Ok. Got it working.
[09:39] <LeeColleton> right.  apm does horrible things to my laptop.  several bug reports are filed on this matter already.
[09:40] <|trey|> fabbione: trying, need to symlink with that?
[09:41] <fabbione> |trey|: works out of the box for me
[09:42] <|trey|> ps, someone kick the servers, getting less then 100kb/s  :(
[09:42] <fabbione> of coruse you will have to restart mozilla & co. to recongnize the new plugin
[09:42] <El_Che> big channel and only beta out :)
[09:42] <|trey|> fabbione: k, thanks, firefox?
[09:42] <fabbione> but that's it
[09:42] <fabbione> |trey|: dunno for firefox. i use mozilla 
[09:42] <fabbione> (the full version)
[09:42] <y0ann> i get a big kernel crash installing with 2 network card
[09:43] <|trey|> fabbione: ahh, ok, then probably... ouch @ mozilla though... that thing hates me  :(
[09:43] <El_Che> I am to by an wireless router and wireless pcmcia network card. Any tips of something well supported in ubuntu/linux?
[09:43] <jblack> apparently I was missing a package or two.
[09:44] <bob2> El_Che: orinoco shipsets still seem to be the best supported
[09:44] <|trey|> fabbione: ahh, for future reference, it does indeed provide plugin for firefox also, fingers crossed as to whether it works though  :)
[09:44] <El_Che> bob2: have a look at that, thx
[09:44] <|trey|> fabbione: nope, same thing  :/
[09:45] <|trey|> fabbione: care to try games.yahoo.com/pl real fast for me?
[09:45] <|trey|> Click on a table, tell me if it works
[09:46] <|trey|> Hmm, its saying the plugin isn't there  :/
[09:48] <fabbione> |trey|: seems to work ok here
[09:48] <ronaldraygun> how would one go about installing ubuntu to a laptop with no cd-rom drive?
[09:48] <bob2> ronaldraygun: can it boot using PXE or netboot or something?
[09:48] <ronaldraygun> no pxe, and i'm not even sure what netboot is
[09:49] <ronaldraygun> i tried doing something with debian but it won't boot the floppies i write from the img files
[09:49] <bob2> how old is it?
[09:49] <ronaldraygun> i'm not sure if it's my img writer or the computer
[09:49] <ronaldraygun> 7 years old
[09:49] <|trey|> fabbione: grr... still nothing here... this is annoying... each plugin has worked on other sites  :/
[09:49] <bob2> that would be pretty slow at running gome...
[09:49] <bob2> er, gnome...
[09:50] <aspro> okay ive narrowed my problem down, how can i change the sound device that ALSA uses by default?
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> i'm not interested in a gui
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> all i really need is network capabilities and mplayer
[09:50] <kremlyn> Then install debian :-)
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> yes, well, seeing as i can't get the floppies to boot
[09:50] <kremlyn> Weird..
[09:50] <ronaldraygun> and fedora won't fit on floppies
[09:51] <kremlyn> If you aren't interested in a GUI, don't use Fedora
[09:51] <bob2> if it can't boot floppies, or network and has no cd...
[09:51] <ronaldraygun> i don't know about the network
[09:51] <bob2> check if you're making the floppise correctly
[09:51] <ronaldraygun> it's a pcmcia network card that i've got for it, but i haven't got a clue about netboot
[09:52] <ronaldraygun> bob: yeah, i already have.  i'd try it on a different computer but i don't have one handy
[09:52] <bob2> you've checked the md5sums match?
[09:52] <ronaldraygun> how do i do that?
[09:54] <bob2> stick the disk in a machine and run "md5sum /dev/fd0"
[09:57] <ronaldraygun> well it looks like it may be my floppy drive misbehaving because it's giving i/o errors for md5sum
[09:58] <ronaldraygun> this laptop boots the win98 disc fine
[09:59] <ronaldraygun> is it possible to put an iso of the cd on the drive somewhere and install fro mthere?
[10:00] <|trey|> What is the difference between a link that shows up red with black bg, and an aqua link?
[10:01] <|trey|> Other plugins are former, java is latter... could be why its not working?
[10:01] <aspro> hm
[10:02] <ronaldraygun> brb
[10:06] <|trey|> NO one here can tell me the difference?
[10:06] <|trey|> gjaklfdshjkgdsjfdhk
[10:07] <bob2> maybe no one knows?
[10:07] <doko> |trey|: the red one points to nirwana. try ls -lL <symlink>
[10:07] <Titbread> hey channel
[10:08] <Titbread> i'm pretty much a newbie to linux altogether
[10:08] <Titbread> i have a mandrake 9.2 box but i'm waiting for my copy of ubuntu to come in the post
[10:08] <Titbread> i was wondering if I could help out on the development of it - im a graphic designer
[10:08] <|trey|> doko: ahh, thanks
[10:09] <|trey|> grr... I just don't get it... why would java work everywhere but one site... the only site I even download java for  :/
[10:09] <|trey|> 5 or 6 different versions of java, none work on the site I want them to  :/
[10:09] <bob2> |trey|: what file had a red symlink?
[10:10] <|trey|> bob2: flash plugins... not important right now, I guess I'll reinstall flashplayer-mozilla tomorrow or something  :/
[10:10] <cypher1001> hey channel, just installed ubuntu :), i installed kernel source throught synaptic, but it's not int /usr/src/2.6.x.x ?? where can i find kernel source? pls?
[10:11] <Treenaks> cypher1001: dpkg -L <package name> to see what's in a package
[10:11] <Treenaks> cypher1001: on a command line
[10:11] <bob2> cypher1001: er, are you sure you need it?
[10:12] <bob2> Titbread: I'm sure your offer would be appreciated, try posting to the ubuntu-devel list?
[10:12] <Titbread> im like brand new to linux
[10:12] <Titbread> whats a devel list?
[10:12] <clee> Titbread: a development mailinglist
[10:12] <Titbread> (sorry for my ignorance im sure its anoying)
[10:12] <bob2> Titbread: it's the mailing list where discussions about the developmentof Ubuntu happen
[10:12] <Se7h> YEY
[10:12] <calc> clee: still awake :)
[10:13] <Se7h> Cedega rulz
[10:13] <Titbread> ok how can i use that
[10:13] <Se7h> :D
[10:13] <clee> calc: dude, I don't sleep.
[10:13] <bob2> Titbread:  http://lists.ubuntu.com/ 
[10:13] <Titbread> right
[10:13] <bob2> Titbread: go and subscribe to it, and then just send an email to ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[10:13] <bob2> Titbread: if you don't want to subscribe, mention thaty in your message so people will CC you
[10:13] <Titbread> and then that sends an email to all the subscripers?
[10:13] <clee> Titbread: yep.
[10:13] <Titbread> CC?
[10:14] <bob2> Titbread: yes.
[10:14] <bob2> Titbread: CC = carbon copy...
[10:14] <Titbread> ohhh right
[10:14] <Titbread> bob2: would you know how i can broadcast internet radio from my linux box?
[10:14] <|trey|> Titbread: look into icecast
[10:14] <bob2> Titbread: icecast, I guess
[10:15] <Titbread> |trey|: Thanks alot mate
[10:15] <|trey|> a lot
[10:15] <Titbread> bob2: Thanks
[10:15] <cypher1001> yes, i need the kernel-source, looks like its in kernel-package? correct..i need to compile kernel module for my wireless nic...i have done this on Suse 9.1, and FC2 where kernel-source is in /usr/src/2.XXX...where is it in ubuntu?
[10:15] <Titbread> |trey|: no need to be pickey on spelling dude ;)
[10:15] <|trey|> Titbread: not having a good night... 
[10:15] <Treenaks> cypher1001: are your sure your wireless nic is not supported in Ubuntu ?
[10:16] <Titbread> bob2: I will hopefully be able to produce some better graphics for the linux community -- AND FUCK MICROSOFTS SHITTY OS OVER!!!
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: no, it's not
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: it's in the linux-source-2.6.8 package
[10:16] <cypher1001> not sure, smc 2635w pcmcia
[10:16] <Titbread> bob2: Check my companies site http://www.retinalnerve.com
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: it's probably supported out of the box
[10:16] <Treenaks> cypher1001: that's just prism54 -- and supported natively
[10:16] <|trey|> Titbread: what is shitty about Microsofts software in your eyes?
[10:16] <bob2> cypher1001: if it has Free drivers, at least
[10:16] <Treenaks> cypher1001: otherwise it's atmel-based, and that works too
[10:17] <Treenaks> cypher1001: just plug it in
[10:17] <|trey|> Titbread: and how will graphics overcome this?
[10:17] <Titbread> |trey|: Well I build a new machine, installed it, went online and within 15 minutes my pc starts behaving odly (programs hang, os hangs, lags, its slow)
[10:17] <Titbread> |trey|: People are naive - they think good graphics = good programming, and good software
[10:17] <|trey|> Titbread: good luck with that philosophy  :/
[10:17] <Titbread> |trey|: look at the average user... they think windows xp is better then windows 2000 or 98 just because its got a smoother interface
[10:18] <bob2> |trey|: please stop it.
[10:18] <Titbread> |trey|: If linux is ever going to become what it should, then making it look gorgues is gotta be a benefit
[10:18] <|trey|> bob2: sorry
[10:18] <cypher1001> this smc uses ralink rt2400 chip, i have it working under suse just fine, all i need is kernel source...:) thanks for replys
[10:18] <lypanov> i built a machine with ubuntu linux and my screen doesn't work wireless certainly doesn't work and i've no idea how to use my dvd burner, with linux otoh, all worked :P
[10:18] <lypanov> s/linux/xp/
[10:18] <Titbread> |trey|: I just think ur propaly some geek who's sooo burning up with hate that he doesnt like new ideas and wished everyone would just use comand prompt - but that cant be the way forward
[10:18] <bob2> cypher1001: then it's highly likely ubuntu includes it already
[10:19] <lypanov> Titbread: sure it can
[10:19] <plovs> morning
[10:19] <lypanov> Titbread: just gotta make the command prompt all pretty
[10:19] <cypher1001> yeah, i have the source for rt2400, i just need kernel source...that's all 
[10:19] <Treenaks> cypher1001: No, we mean it's highly likely it works with the DEFAULT kernel
[10:19] <Titbread> |trey|: Remember like 70% of the world are dumb as fuck - if u want linux to take over u gotta cater for them 2, and yeh they think something tht looks good - is good
[10:19] <lypanov> cypher1001: apt-get install linux-source-2.6.8-1
[10:20] <plovs> cypher1001, wouldn't kernel headers be enough? or linux-restricted-modules?
[10:20] <Titbread> lypanov: Then retinalnerve.com will make the command prompt look pretty
[10:20] <|trey|> Titbread: dude, stfu, I was asked to stop rebutting you.
[10:20] <Titbread> |trey|: Stfu ur self
[10:20] <Titbread> |trey|: Im only trying to help the community
[10:20] <|trey|> lol such maturity, no seriously
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: maturity? lol im 17
[10:21] <lypanov> Titbread: :p
[10:21] <|trey|> Titbread: never would have guessed...
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: and i run a web design business - please lets not let this get personal
[10:21] <bob2> |trey|: Titbread please?
[10:21] <joem> guys, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/conduct
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: and what are you some 30 year old looser who's fucked about 2 girls in his entire life .. nice one :)
[10:21] <lypanov> anyways
[10:21] <|trey|> 20
[10:21] <Titbread> |trey|: stop being a dick
[10:21] <bob2> Titbread: stop it
[10:21] <crimsun> guys.
[10:21] <Titbread> k i'll stop
[10:21] <crimsun> this need go no further.
[10:21] <lypanov> Titbread: prove yourself :) just make the pics and he'll have nothing to say
[10:22] <bob2> Titbread: please can you remain civil?
[10:22] <clee> lypanov: dude, don't encourage him.
[10:22] <Titbread> not only will i proove myself
[10:22] <lypanov> clee: well if the guys good who cares
[10:22] <steved> Hrm. Is ubuntulinux.org's Documentation Search feature searching search.plone.org for anyone else? :)
[10:22] <Titbread> i'll make linux accessable
[10:22] <cypher1001> apt-get install linux-source-2.6.8*
[10:22] <cypher1001> did the trick
[10:22] <lypanov> cypher1001: yay
[10:22] <|trey|> Soo... I was having issues with Java...
[10:23] <Titbread> i'll remain cicil
[10:23] <cypher1001> thanks alot :)
[10:23] <Titbread> civil*
[10:23] <lypanov> cypher1001: np :)
[10:23] <Titbread> i jus find it anoying when geeks get all up their own asses and dont want to hear new ideas
[10:23] <lypanov> cypher1001: i needed it yesterday for ndiswrapper :P
[10:23] <lypanov> Titbread: and we get annoyed when you call us geeks :)
[10:23] <lypanov> Titbread: when > 2 girls makes u a slut anyways. so shut it :)
[10:23] <Titbread> Why geek = someone who knows about pcs
[10:23] <clee> Titbread: It's generally not very welcome for someone who's "new to Linux" to come in here and tell us what we need to do to "make it"
[10:24] <lypanov> yoyo clee btw :)
[10:24] <clee> oyoy, lyp :)
[10:24] <lypanov> :P
[10:24] <Titbread> AHAHAHAHA WHAT THE FUCK!!?? I'd screwed more girls then that when i was 14 fo fucks sake!!
[10:24] <clee> lypanov: how's rubidium coming along?
[10:24] <cypher1001> i didn't bother to try ndiswrapper..
[10:24] <plovs> steved, works fine here
[10:24] <Titbread> yeh im a slut
[10:24] <lypanov> Titbread: then your a slut :)
[10:24] <lypanov> Titbread: :P
[10:24] <Titbread> Like i care
[10:24] <lypanov> cypher1001: i don't have native :|
[10:24] <Titbread> u'll be whacking off the films im in next year probably
[10:24] <Titbread> so stfu
[10:24] <lypanov> Titbread: lol
[10:24] <Titbread> all i wanted to do was help out the linux community
[10:24] <lypanov> Titbread: anyways. draw some pics :)
[10:25] <Titbread> retinal nerve will draw the pics
[10:25] <lypanov> yay yay yay
[10:25] <Titbread> an then u'll all be like "uhh this looks better, now it feels better, maybe tht lil kid was right"
[10:25] <lypanov> clee: its on a break atm
[10:25] <steved> plovs: Okay, thanks.
[10:25] <|trey|> Titbread: I fail to see how the amount of girls you've been with is relivant to anything? just for the record, I am a 20 yo that has been with 38 girls and counting though... just to prove you wrong  :/
[10:25] <lypanov> clee: moved into new flat last night :)
[10:25] <clee> lypanov: oh? how's that going?
[10:25] <lypanov> clee: nice nice :)
[10:25] <calc> take it to #kiddiepr0n already
[10:26] <Titbread> |trey|: Thats quite sad dude - u actually remember the number
[10:26] <|trey|> Titbread: I have had 6 ex's have abortions too, wow, yeah, I'm so cool
[10:26] <Titbread> |trey|: no ur dick - use a fucking condom numb nuts
[10:26] <lypanov> clee: its got erm, a blow up bed, a powerpuff girls floor matt, and a table for my laptop :P
[10:26] <|trey|> Titbread: can't cum with a condom  :/  this is kinda ot though  :/
[10:26] <lypanov> clee: i kind of need to furnish it i think :P
[10:26] <clee> lypanov: heh.
[10:26] <crimsun> k didn't you two agree to stop this name-calling?
[10:26] <Titbread> |trey|: Do you know how much abortions fuck a girl up
[10:26] <clee> lypanov: when are you coming out here to visit, dude?
[10:26] <|trey|> Titbread: quite aware, thanks  :/
[10:26] <bob2> Titbread: stop it
[10:27] <lypanov> yay. silence :)
[10:27] <Titbread> |trey|: Not untill that little prick stops being a bell end
[10:27] <bob2> |trey|: we do not care at all about your sex life.
[10:27] <bob2> Titbread: dude, come on
[10:27] <lypanov> clee: no idea, but i'm 100% certain that i'll make ols next year :P
[10:27] <Titbread> its cool i dont care
[10:27] <Titbread> that geezer brought it up
[10:27] <|trey|> bob2: bah, I'm frustrated... seems like as good a person as any to take it out on...
[10:27] <bob2> Titbread: and  you continuted it, on and on and on
[10:27] <bob2> |trey|: no, that is not acceptable
[10:27] <|trey|> Titbread: message me if you're as bored as you want, others don't need to hear/see it  :/
[10:27] <calc> bob2: just put them on /ignore as everyone else has, once an op wakes up they will end up banned
[10:28] <Titbread> ohh great
[10:28] <Titbread> i get banned for trying to draw graphics
[10:28] <bob2> Titbread: no
[10:28] <bob2> Titbread: just fucking leave it
[10:28] <Titbread> ohhh yeh sorry
[10:28] <|trey|> Titbread: no, you get banned for being disruptive.
[10:28] <bob2> |trey|: stop it
[10:28] <bob2> jesus christ, are you 3 years old?
[10:28] <Titbread> i'll get banned because some guy was in a bad mood
[10:28] <Titbread> lol
[10:29] <dyn> hi
[10:29] <lypanov> bob2: i don't know any 3 years old that know those words to be honest :p
[10:29] <Titbread> fucking hell - this is why open source remains soo underground - look at ur attitudes
[10:29] <crimsun> hullo dyn
[10:29] <Titbread> im TRYING TO HELP
[10:29] <dyn> how do you usually install mplayer on ubuntu? do you have an apt sources line for it?
[10:29] <lypanov> clee: rubydium is sweet btw. i have a stable version
[10:29] <bob2> Titbread: stop it.  I pointed you at the place to offer your help, and then you got into a stupid fight with someone.
[10:30] <lypanov> clee: i could write a pretty funky standard lib with it now :)
[10:30] <bob2> Titbread: just leave it, and write that email!
[10:30] <plovs> dyn, http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[10:30] <lypanov> clee: its pretty dang 1337 :)
[10:30] <crimsun> dyn: usually add marillat lines. They should be available in synaptic.
[10:30] <clee> lypanov: nice :)
[10:30] <steved> Hmm. tseng's mono repo seems to be....dead. Is there a backup anywhere?
[10:30] <Titbread> naah cant be bothered now
[10:30] <lypanov> is there a ndiswrapper repo btw?
[10:30] <lypanov> self compiling kinda sux :/
[10:30] <dyn> plovs: lol thanks, gotta read other faq too then
[10:30] <dyn> crimsun: let me google on that..
[10:30] <Titbread> for every open minded linux user there's like 50 like |trey|
[10:30] <lypanov> lol
[10:30] <plovs> dyn, it has the marillat repo in it
[10:30] <Titbread> whats the point in helping people who'll just be arrogant
[10:31] <dyn> crimsun: though i still seem to prefer good-ol'-console apt, not synaptic
[10:31] <crimsun> dyn: try the faq as plovs suggested
[10:31] <Titbread> i'll jus keep making money
[10:31] <lypanov> maybe main faq should have a Q: Is there another faq?: A: Yes the wiki
[10:31] <dyn> crimsun: reading it already man
[10:31] <crimsun> dyn: k :)
[10:31] <bob2> Titbread: well, that's a shame, but good luck.
[10:31] <Titbread> yeh whatever
[10:32] <Titbread> |trey|: I'll send you a pack of durex featherlites - maybe ur jimmy can jizz then u fucking freak go back to ur gloomy bedroom and wank over pictures of hitler
[10:33] <bob2> Titbread: can you please stop being so abusive?
[10:33] <plovs> interisting i ignored some users on this channel and they still pop up? how do i ignore with xchat?
[10:33] <lypanov> plovs: switch to irssi? :P
[10:33] <|trey|> plovs: /ignore <user> all
[10:33] <Titbread> not untill he apologises and says he will change his attitude towards newbies trying to help the linux community - its people like him that put me off ever wanting to help
[10:34] <Titbread> |trey|: apologise
[10:34] <plovs> lypanov, i use irssi, but with xchat  on top
[10:34] <steved> ignore Titbread
[10:34] <steved> er
[10:34] <lypanov> hehe
[10:34] <joem> You are preventing help from being given by flooding the chan with garbage nobody needs nor cares to read
[10:34] <Titbread> ok ez
[10:34] <lypanov> someone just go into #freenode
[10:34] <joem> if you have a genuine question, then ask
[10:34] <Titbread> soz
[10:34] <lypanov> find the op's that are available and get him banned
[10:35] <Titbread> soz channel ez
[10:35] <|trey|> lypanov: only bad thing about that... they don't let everyone talk  :/
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: i switched over to darcs btw :)
[10:35] <clee> lypanov: darcs? wtf for?
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: arch sux :)
[10:35] <calc> lypanov: just get him klined ;)
[10:35] <clee> dude, that's even more obscure than tla :)
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: it works :P
[10:35] <lypanov> clee: i didn't have to read any docs, it just worked
[10:36] <lypanov> clee: freaked me out
[10:36] <clee> I'm quite happy with tla so far
[10:36] <Titbread> well cheers for the email an stuff, safe
[10:36] <lypanov> clee: i have a 2gb revlib on my laptop that only has 4gb of space
[10:36] <clee> lypanov: ... so remove some shit from it.
[10:36] <lypanov> clee: i'm not my computers mum. i'm sick of admining stuff that can't just control itself
[10:37] <clee> lypanov: or - god forbid - buy a laptop with a larger-than-4g-hd :)
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: my linux part was tiny
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: oh btw. i'm on ubuntu on my laptop now at last :)
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: no more windoze :>
[10:37] <mkyc-ubuntu> anyone know if there is a citrix ica client as a deb ?
[10:37] <clee> lypanov: congrats. :)
[10:37] <lypanov> clee: shame that default ubuntu is a *bitch* to install on this thing
[10:38] <bob2> mkyc-ubuntu: it's Free Sofwtare?
[10:38] <mkyc-ubuntu> dont know bob2
[10:38] <petemc> there is
[10:38] <petemc> it wont work through a ssl relay though
[10:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> actually i think i may need to do an install of the citrix one for this
[10:39] <mojo> hi all ppl,!
[10:39] <joem> hi mojo
[10:40] <mojo> I feel a bit annoyed about GNOME Ubuntu new menu system
[10:40] <mojo> the Java 2 Webstart was not added to the menu like other distro
[10:40] <azeem> mojo: what's Java 2 Webstart?
[10:40] <|trey|> azeem: java prefs... usually unneeded  :/
[10:40] <clee> mojo: dude, Java 5 is out. ;)
[10:41] <mojo> when u install J2SDK
[10:41] <mojo> they will install the icon on the menu
[10:41] <mojo> yah
[10:41] <mojo> I mean J2SDK 1.50 for 5
[10:41] <clee> god. Sun's naming conventions are so screwed.
[10:41] <dyn> clee: it's not a clear choice for users though
[10:41] <azeem> mojo: does ubuntu support J2SDK? I guess not
[10:41] <dyn> it's about marketing+politics
[10:41] <|trey|> azeem: no
[10:41] <mojo> at least Ubuntu should modify to let Sun Java icon added
[10:41] <dyn> not naming conventions
[10:42] <azeem> mojo: fix Sun Java
[10:42] <mojo> Sun Java installer is generic for all distros
[10:42] <azeem> mojo: I don't think ubuntu has it blacklisted or anything
[10:42] <mojo> b/c Ubuntu is a bit tweaked
[10:42] <mojo> so...
[10:42] <mojo> not turn out like I want
[10:42] <azeem> so Sun Java should be adopted to ubuntu as well
[10:43] <Se7h> dammm
[10:43] <azeem> perhaps you can just edit the .desktop file the Sun Java installer installs?
[10:43] <Se7h> cedega realy owns
[10:43] <mojo> yah
[10:43] <Se7h> does anyone uses it?
[10:43] <|trey|> azeem: easier said then done... you have to get a license from sun to distribute it...
[10:43] <mojo> yeah
[10:43] <azeem> |trey|: oh ;)
[10:43] <mojo> it'd be nice
[10:43] <azeem> then get Sun to fix it...
[10:43] <mojo> if developers give a patch
[10:43] <|trey|> azeem: the only distro with a license that I know of is SUSE...
[10:43] <mojo> when you install Sun Java
[10:44] <mojo> then .desktop file will be added in
[10:44] <mojo> darn...
[10:44] <mojo> some1 must jump in
[10:44] <mojo> and give Ubuntu a hand on doc
[10:45] <Se7h> guess not
[10:45] <Se7h> well u should ;P
[10:45] <mojo> documentation rite now for Ubuntu is quite poor
[10:45] <bob2> mojo: you can help.
[10:45] <plovs> mojo, ubuntu is not even out yet
[10:45] <mojo> I'm really bad at English, I can only program Java
[10:46] <mojo> seems to me
[10:46] <mojo> not many ppl here are German
[10:47] <mojo> Se7h: hey I got cedega runs super well here!
[10:47] <Se7h> mojo :D
[10:47] <Se7h> it rokx man
[10:48] <Se7h> at the first view it seemed to run better than windows
[10:48] <mojo> it runs War3 faster
[10:48] <mojo> dun know y it runs faster
[10:48] <opi^work> re from work
[10:48] <mojo> weird heh? emulation is faster than native
[10:48] <Se7h> eheh
[10:48] <Se7h> well
[10:48] <Se7h> on their homepage
[10:48] <Se7h> ups
[10:49] <joem> its not emulation
[10:49] <Se7h> not there
[10:49] <Se7h> but i red somewhere
[10:49] <plovs> how do i get a list of *all* the bugs in bugzilla?
[10:49] <Se7h> "it runs better in cedega"
[10:49] <mojo> Se7h: u got PointtoPlay?
[10:50] <Se7h> sure
[10:50] <joem> plovs select every possible status and query with no terms
[10:50] <plovs> joem, ok
[10:51] <plovs> joem, duh, that was too easy, time for coffee
[10:51] <joem> heh
[10:53] <opi^work> plovs: oh, coffee.. thanks for reminder ;p
[10:57] <dyn> s/win32codecs/w32codecs/g @ http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[10:57] <dyn> if someone got the rights to correct the docos on wiki
[11:02] <tof--> is there some mirror for source.list ?
[11:02] <Treenaks> tof--: what do you mean?
[11:02] <opi^work> tof--: like, other FTP hosts with Ubuntu packages?
[11:03] <tof--> yep
[11:03] <bob2> yup.
[11:03] <Mithrandir> tof--: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[11:03] <tof-->  http://archive.ubuntu.com is very slow for me
[11:04] <fridge> use a mirror
[11:04] <opi^work> there's a list of mirrors there
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> ok i must be confused
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> how does one 'run' a shell script
[11:05] <aspro> mkyc-ubuntu, sh script.sh
[11:05] <opi^work> mkyc-ubuntu: first line of script
[11:05] <opi^work> mkyc-ubuntu: add #!/bin/myfavshell
[11:05] <mkyc-ubuntu> ahh i see
[11:05] <opi^work> mkyc-ubuntu: then chmod u+x
[11:05] <opi^work> or ue aspro way :)
[11:05] <opi^work> use
[11:06] <aspro> :)
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> aspro ?
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> oh i see
[11:06] <opi^work> his way, aspro way ;P
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> worked like a charm - cheers
[11:08] <mkyc-ubuntu> bah @ citrix and its need to have netscape installed to install the client
[11:09] <mkyc-ubuntu> hope it accepts mozilla as netscape seeing as how it doesnt accept firefox :P
[11:10] <petemc> mkyc-ubuntu: have you tried tsclient?
[11:11] <iMicX> mkyc-ubuntu, which citrix is that? I've never had netscape?
[11:11] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes but doesnt appear to work properly with my full desktop thru csg
[11:11] <mkyc-ubuntu> linux client
[11:11] <petemc> mkyc-ubuntu: citrix secure gateway? good luck with that
[11:11] <mkyc-ubuntu> tell me about it - i support it for a living :(
[11:11] <petemc> mkyc-ubuntu: you'll need to try the java client, and embed the certificate in it, its a royal pita
[11:12] <iMicX> mkyc-ubuntu, I just dl the client from citrix and install it. no problem so far, but no csg either :)
[11:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> so it seems but i have a client who needs to do it on linux.... and work said they can so i have t o work out how :)
[11:13] <petemc> dont waste your time on anything other than the java client tho
[11:13] <mkyc-ubuntu> but its a good thing for me to learn as it means i can move one step closer to linux only here :)
[11:13] <petemc> and you need the java sdk installed on the linux machine, and use keytool to import the cert
[11:13] <mkyc-ubuntu> i may not need to.. thinking about it now..
[11:13] <mkyc-ubuntu> hmm
[11:13] <petemc> keep thinking that :)
[11:14] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol no i mean it may work another way
[11:14] <petemc> i know
[11:14] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes well i can pray :)
[11:14] <petemc> well, it doesnt for me, running nfuse on apache tomcat
[11:15] <iMicX> citrix used to be good, but it's gone to wack
[11:15] <mkyc-ubuntu> well the server isnt here, im just trying to connect to it
[11:16] <iMicX> you'd think their mac and unix clients would be their best, but no, it's windows they concentrate on...
[11:16] <morganc> Can anybody recommend an RSS aggregator on ubuntu?
[11:17] <Zindar> morganc, I use blam
[11:17] <Zindar> morganc, add deb http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs ./
[11:17] <iMicX> blam, but I havent done it on ubuntu
[11:17] <mkyc-ubuntu> well iMicX citrix IS designed to run on windows servers so it does sort of make sense i guess in a sad way
[11:17] <morganc> Zindar: Thanks, I'll check it out.
[11:17] <Zindar> blam works great on ubuntu
[11:17] <martyn> hey all
[11:18] <iMicX> mkyc-ubuntu, seur, but it was supposed to be thin client any client
[11:18] <martyn> just installed ubuntu (first time user of a debian type system) - must say - its *superb*
[11:18] <iMicX> bbl teatime
[11:19] <mkyc-ubuntu> i know iMicX but it does work on any client, its just the web stuff with CSG is a bit painfull on some 
[11:21] <kremlyn> How can one bring up/down an interface based on the configuration settings in /etc/network/interfaces
[11:21] <kremlyn> Rather than using ifconfig, which requires all the parameters etc.
[11:21] <Hrdwr_BoB> kremlyn: ifup
[11:21] <Hrdwr_BoB> ifdown
[11:21] <Kamion> kremlyn: 'ifup eth0', 'ifdown eth0', and similar.
[11:21] <kremlyn> Ahh ok, and they will check /etc/network/interfaces
[11:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> ps:you suck wang 
[11:22] <kremlyn> Thanks people :-)
[11:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> I mean hi :)
[11:22] <kremlyn> heh, y0 Hrdwr_BoB
[11:22] <kremlyn> It was news to me about ifup/ifdown
[11:22] <kremlyn> I thought they were Red Hat things
[11:22] <kremlyn> :-/
[11:22] <Hrdwr_BoB> they are generic now
[11:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> though I have nothing against them
[11:23] <kremlyn> Well they can't be generic, they have to be modified to look at the right underlying script ;-)
[11:23] <azeem> Debian/Ubuntu is not using RedHat's implementation of ifupdown
[11:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> generic commands you tool :P
[11:23] <kremlyn> heh
[11:24] <Treenaks> kremlyn: no, in a general computer mag. :)
[11:25] <kremlyn> Treenaks: Yeah that too :-)
[11:30] <andred> Should it be possible to use Firefox's update feature to apply a security fix, or does that require root priviliges? Trying to use it here fails.
[11:33] <Kamion> andred: no, if anything we should remove that feature from our Firefox.
[11:33] <Kamion> There should be an updated package with the security fix soon, if there isn't already.
[11:33] <Treenaks> there isn't yet
[11:33] <Treenaks> at least, not according to the warty-changes list
[11:33] <kremlyn> What's the security issue?
[11:34] <james_> has there been any talk of an ubuntu forum yet?
[11:34] <andred> Kamion, That's what I'm thinking, we probably shouldn't have Firefox's update thing there if we do our own fixes.
[11:34] <Kamion> james_: lots. there will be one as soon as we figure out how to integrate it with the mailing lists (if we can)
[11:35] <plovs> andred, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1985
[11:36] <lypanov> whats the suggested gnome pdf viewer these days?
[11:36] <andred> plovs:thanks
[11:36] <andred> lypanov, gpdf
[11:36] <subterrific> gpdf if you don't need to print
[11:36] <Zindar> xpdf is default in ubuntu
[11:36] <subterrific> xpdf if you need to print
[11:36] <lypanov> i just want a nice looking interface :P
[11:36] <Zindar> because gpdf can't do some font, searching and print
[11:36] <Zindar> xpdf is also faster
[11:37] <plovs> lypanov, acroread is in universe
[11:37] <clee> acroread doesn't have a "nice interface"
[11:37] <clee> not by a long shot
[11:37] <lypanov> gpdf is cute :)
[11:38] <lypanov> plovs: acroread looks awful :)
[11:38] <lypanov> acroread crashes all the time even on windows
[11:38] <lypanov> its useless
[11:38] <ashgan> hi
[11:38] <tof--> lo
[11:38] <Riddell> isn't universe ment to be all free software?
[11:39] <plovs> lypanov, it doesn't crash here but yes, it looks *awfull*
[11:39] <bob2> Riddell: no, it's nearly all of Debian sid
[11:39] <bob2> which is nearly all of it
[11:40] <lypanov> plovs: haven't crashed it on linux. but a few times when using multiple docs on windows
[11:41] <plovs> lypanov, serves you right, windows! :)
[11:42] <Riddell> so what is multiverse?
[11:43] <andred> bob2, So why the distinct "restricted"?
[11:43] <Kamion> andred: that's a distinction from main, not from universe.
[11:43] <Kamion> Riddell: something that doesn't exist yet, but was being discussed at the last technical board meeting ...
[11:44] <Riddell> ah, ok
[11:45] <nunag> would someone do a ps aux and tell me if the PIDs are contiguous?
[11:45] <Treenaks> nunag: uh?
[11:45] <bob2> nunag: no, they will not be
[11:45] <Zindar> nunag, why would they be
[11:45] <Zindar> ?
[11:45] <bob2> andred: restricted is non-Free driver stuff, afaik
[11:45] <Kamion> we don't do AIX-style randomized pids, mind
[11:46] <nunag> they are on my slackware
[11:46] <maswan> Kamion: Neither does AIX, in my experience.
[11:46] <Treenaks> maswan: openbsd does..
[11:46] <bob2> nunag: only to begin with
[11:46] <lypanov> plovs: i switched to linux on saturday at last
[11:46] <Kamion> they won't be *entirely* contiguous, but they are allocated contiguously
[11:46] <Kamion> maswan: maybe my memory's faulty; I'm sure it did when I used to work with it
[11:46] <nunag> mmm
[11:46] <lypanov> plovs: switched away from linux to windows over 8 months ago now....
[11:46] <clee> lypanov: you mean "back to linux"
[11:46] <lypanov> plovs: its nice to be back :)
[11:47] <lypanov> clee: :P
[11:47] <maswan> ftp-deb@churchill:~> ps | grep grep
[11:47] <maswan>  36062  pts/1  0:00 grep grep 
[11:47] <maswan> ftp-deb@churchill:~> ps | grep grep
[11:47] <maswan>  36064  pts/1  0:00 grep grep 
[11:47] <Zindar> hi maswan :)
[11:47] <maswan> yeah, seems like a normal unixy system to me
[11:47] <Zindar> maswan, installed ubuntu yet?
[11:48] <maswan> Zindar: Nope, have to try a kernel.org kernel on ravel first to see if there is an upstreams problem or a ubuntu-specific problem with the mpt-fusion driver.
[11:49] <Zindar> maswan, ahh.. alright.. I'm extremly happy with ubuntu...  got 3 ppl running it here at the office now :)
[11:49] <maswan> Kamion: Well, there have been lots of changes since really old AIX, these days it is mostly a fairly normal unix, with a few quirks.
[11:50] <Treenaks> maswan: like most unixen..
[11:50] <Kamion> maswan: maybe I'm thinking OpenBSD then, dunno
[11:50] <Kamion> maswan: bet the linker's still mad :-)
[11:50] <maswan> Kamion: Yes, that's the primary quirk I was thinking of. :)
[11:50] <nunag> OpenBSD randomizes PIDs
[11:51] <nunag> which would seem sensible
[11:51] <maswan> Kamion: I reacted because this isn't the first time I've seen a reference to "AIX-style randomized pids", but I've never actually seen it on AIX. :)
[11:51] <Kamion> maswan: TBH I have no particular inclination to go back to AIX to find out ... :-)
[11:52] <maswan> Zindar: We'll see, I might try it on the new laptop when I get that.
[11:53] <Treenaks> maswan: aix? on a laptop?
[11:53] <maswan> Treenaks: No, ubuntu
[11:55] <plovs> lypanov, yes, using linux feels lijke coming home, using windows is like visiting your rich rather eccentric aunt, who has plenty of stuff you can use, but it will never be *yours*
[11:55] <smeggy> no
[11:55] <smeggy> windows is like visitng your rich aunt with dementure.. who has good days... but on her bad days soils herself often and dribbles.. meaning you need to looka fter her
[11:56] <lypanov> yup :P
[11:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol
[11:56] <lypanov> plovs: yup. i'm home now :)
[11:56] <lypanov> plovs: strangely i switched vcs, os, distro (used to be gen2 user), and moved flat all in the same weekend :>
[11:56] <lypanov> plenty of fun
[11:56] <lypanov> but i'm tired and wanna be at home not in work :P
[11:57] <plovs> lypanov, i rather move flat then os's :)
[11:58] <nunag> I switched from Linux to FBSD a couple of years ago, for one reason: the FreeBSD Handbook. Is the documentation getting any better (it used to be 10 year old HOWTOs)?
[11:58] <lypanov> plovs: yer ur on the sane one :P
[11:59] <nunag> yes, I agree, lypanov - but better than I could find in the penguin world
[11:59] <Treenaks> nunag: man, wikis... mailing lists..
[11:59] <lypanov> Treenaks: sorry thats no answer
[12:00] <lypanov> Treenaks: ml's and wiki's are very often incomplete and difficult to find
[12:00] <lypanov> Treenaks: and they are *online*
[12:00] <lypanov> Treenaks: the handbook otoh is installed by default
[12:00] <lypanov> what if you can't get your eth working? :P
[12:01] <Treenaks> lypanov: you read the manual that came with your packaged distribution
[12:01] <lypanov> ml's are also very high latency, and somtimes i need an answer in 5 minutes not two days
[12:01] <Treenaks> lypanov: otherwise, you already know
[12:01] <lypanov> Treenaks: i don't by packaged distros
[12:01] <lypanov> s/by/buy/
[12:01] <lypanov> Treenaks: sorry. what? how can you already know? it differs from distro to distro
[12:01] <nunag> I'm not really a technically adept - just a user. I find I can do stuff (like get an eth card working) easily with BSD
[12:02] <smeggy> BSD makes me happy
[12:02] <smeggy> but the GNU/Linux licensing makes me happier
[12:02] <lypanov> bsd now has better hardware support so i'm pondering switching
[12:02] <lypanov> (ndis is much easier to use)
[12:02] <nunag> I'm thinking of going back to GNU/Linux
[12:03] <smeggy> they really need a better abbreviation
[12:03] <lypanov> nunag: how come?
[12:03] <smeggy> GNUL or something
[12:03] <smeggy> GNU/Linux is a pain to type
[12:03] <smeggy> :P
[12:03] <smeggy> yeah but thats wrong
[12:03] <smeggy> and proper nerds are pedantic
[12:03] <Kamion> nunag: the Debian installation manual is pretty good nowadays; we're in the process of adapting it for Ubuntu
[12:04] <nunag> I like unstable software :)
[12:04] <nate> it's not like it's all GNU though
[12:04] <nate> there's Perl and Apache and BSD stuff as well
[12:04] <lypanov> yup
[12:04] <lypanov> so gnu/linux is just as wrong
[12:05] <lypanov> if not worse as with linux you don't specify
[12:05] <Kamion> the GNU and Linux argument is rarely productive; let's not have it here. We decided to call our distribution simply "Ubuntu" to avoid the whole debate. :-)
[12:05] <nate> The Hideous Bizarre Mutant Operating System Of Which Linux Is A Small But Key Part
[12:05] <lypanov> nate: :P
[12:05] <dyn> oh shit.. anyone knows how to fix the "NTLDR is missing" problem of windows XP after installing ubuntu to an other partition?
[12:05] <smeggy> Kamion, aww but Ubuntu the Happy Smiley Friendly Distribution of GNU/Linux is so much better :P
[12:05] <nunag> Lignux - just tell RMS the g is silent
[12:05] <Kamion> dyn: http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/, perhaps?
[12:05] <lypanov> nunag: lol
[12:06] <dyn> Kamion: let me see.. my gf gonna kill me if i dont solve that until evening :))
[12:06] <dyn> "it's important not to panic" - huh that docs is for me
[12:06] <dyn> ;P
[12:06] <lypanov> hehe
[12:07] <smeggy> any ETA on a forum?
[12:08] <darkersatanic> smeggy: Forum? Ewww. What's wrong with a mailing list?
[12:08] <smeggy> they annoy me :P
[12:09] <dyn> Kamion: still reading, but i wonder how come that you got that url handy immediately? :)
[12:09] <darkersatanic> Heh. Forums send me right up the wall... :)
[12:09] <smeggy> meh
[12:09] <smeggy> I really have nothing against mailing lists
[12:09] <smeggy> Just if you want to attract newbie desktop users
[12:09] <smeggy> you'll need a forum
[12:10] <mkyc-ubuntu> preferably with pr0n
[12:10] <mkyc-ubuntu> newbies like pr0n :) 
[12:10] <joem> forums turn into junk so quick
[12:10] <joem> mailing lists are much easier to moderate
[12:12] <Kamion> dyn: bug #1566
[12:12] <Kamion> dyn: may not be the same thing, but it's high on my list at the moment ...
[12:13] <dyn> Kamion: ahh, i see
[12:13] <ForsaKen`> i got a ubuntu mirror, i already transfered all the files, i must rsync evry 6 houers, and i am intersted in building some script that will auto run the like for rsync, could anyone help me ?
[12:13] <dyn> Kamion: fact is, that i HAD run into that installing freebsd the other day to a box, but ended up with reinstalling the whole box, i couldn't find an answer
[12:13] <ForsaKen`> line *
[12:13] <dyn> Kamion: but let's see if i can blow up that box with sfdisk, i'm already close to the end of the docs :)
[12:13] <ashgan> dyn> some hints here: http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
[12:15] <dyn> ashgan: that last time i just mentioned i tried to fix the issue with the winxp rescue console, but it did not fix anything
[12:15] <dyn> ashgan: so i'm going with sfdisk this time, that lwn article seems sensible and helpful enough
[12:15] <plovs_work> ForsaKen`, the best i could find: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/rsync.xml
[12:17] <ashgan> dyn>did you try a fixboot, instead? 
[12:17] <dyn> Kamion: "Warning: partition 1 does not end at a cylinder bounday", sfdisk kindly refuses to set these
[12:17] <dyn> ashgan: i tried that too, no help
[12:17] <dyn> (partition 1 is the windows one)
[12:18] <vertical98> could someone point me to documentation on how to manually install a network driver?
[12:19] <dyn> and the problem is that the old situation *is* correct and the new situation would make partition 1 does not end correctly
[12:20] <dyn> would it help if i could look up the exact geometry of that hdd?
[12:21] <dyn> i know it's an IBM DTLA-307030
[12:25] <dyn> Kamion?
[12:29] <Kamion> dyn: sorry, I'm not sure enough of my ground beyond that
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> HDD Details:
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> Model: DTLA-307030
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> P/N: 07N3929
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> LBA: 60.036.480 Sectors
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> RPM: 7200
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> MLC: F80033
[12:29] <Hrdwr_BoB> CHS: 16383/16/63
[12:31] <dyn> that's what hdparm -I reports of my drive too
[12:32] <dyn> but according to fdisk it's configured to 16 heads, 63 sectors/track, 59560 cylinders
[12:32] <Hrdwr_BoB> that's ... a lot of cylinders
[12:32] <dyn> haha
[12:32] <dyn> appearently, yeah :)
[12:33] <dyn> but i'm afraid (no problems, just mentioning) that ubuntu install changed that
[12:33] <dyn> now i wonder if i set back the original geometry with sfdisk, why partition 1's end would change
[12:33] <dyn> especially as i installed ubuntu on 2 already existing partitions
[12:34] <dyn> so i did NOT delete/create partitions during the install
[12:37] <maswan> Mithrandir: btw, regarding that, did you get around to compile a kernel?
[12:41] <Mithrandir> maswan: oh, sorry. /:
[12:41] <maswan> Mithrandir: I'll do it now then
[12:43] <Mithrandir> maswan: ok
[12:55] <sabdfl> is there any difference between gnome-terminal and multi-gnome-terminal?
[12:56] <mjr> at least some while back multi-gnome-terminal was gnome 1.x stuff
[12:57] <mjr> and since gnome-terminal now has tabs, I don't think multi is very useful anymore
[12:58] <plovs_work> mjr, and if you really  *need* lots of tabs you should be using screen instead
[12:59] <mjr> quite possibly yes
[01:02] <Riddell> t
[01:04] <sabdfl> mjr: thanks
[01:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> really dumb question probably but i will ask : is there an active sync compatible type app for linux?
[01:12] <Baumi> look for syncE
[01:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> oh there is.. cool
[01:12] <mkyc-ubuntu> does it talk to pocketpc ?
[01:14] <lothario> would ppc ubuntu work on a clamshell ibook??
[01:15] <mdz> sabdfl: yeah, multi-gnome-terminal is obsoleted by modern gnome-terminal
[01:16] <Kamion> lothario: if that's the one that our release manager charmingly refers to as the "toilet-seat iBook", then yes, it will
[01:16] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol @ toilet seat
[01:17] <daniels> Kamion: clamshell is white plastic, iirc
[01:17] <Kamion> oh, not the same then
[01:17] <joem> I don't know, it kind of looks like a toilet seat
[01:18] <Kamion> daniels: http://www.macstuff.nl/support/iBook.html suggests it's the same type as Jeff's though
[01:19] <Mithrandir> jdub's the green one.
[01:19] <Kamion> lothario: anyway, all iBooks are NewWorld, so yes, it should work fine
[01:19] <Mithrandir> iirc
[01:19] <lothario> Yay!!
[01:19] <sabdfl> mdz: ok, thanks
[01:20] <aj> daniels: eh? clamshell is coloured plastic; white ibooks are the newer dual-usb versions
[01:22] <dpro> Hey!
[01:22] <dpro> have a little problem.. at some pages mozilla firefox crashes? how can that be
[01:23] <dpro> ?
[01:23] <merriam> what pages?
[01:24] <dpro> like realplayers homepage
[01:24] <dpro> when i press install instrucktions
[01:24] <dpro> and friendup.com
[01:25] <dpro> its pretty annoying
[01:25] <fabbione> Does Luc irc?
[01:25] <Kamion> sounds like a bug you should report (see the topic) ...
[01:25] <dpro> cant i compile my own mozilla firefox?
[01:25] <dpro> cause that would be much cooler
[01:25] <dpro> its pretty slow
[01:25] <Kamion> it's already optimized for Pentium 4
[01:26] <Kamion> you can if it makes you feel better, though :-)
[01:26] <dpro> well.. i have a Transmeta!
[01:27] <dpro> Kamion: i want it to be complied for a Transmeta Crusoe TM5800
[01:27] <dpro> and i want to compile it myself
[01:27] <dpro> well i need to compile a new kernel too
[01:27] <dpro> hmm..
[01:27] <Zindar> dpro, what's stopping you?
[01:28] <dpro> ehm... cant find out how to compile a kernel
[01:28] <spiv> apt-get install kernel-package ; zless /usr/share/doc/kernel-package/README.gz
[01:28] <darkersatanic> dpro: http://www.hantslug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxHints/KernelBuilding
[01:28] <darkersatanic> dpro: http://www.hantslug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxHints/KernelCompiling
[01:29] <darkersatanic> May be useful.
[01:29] <dpro> i'll try that
[01:29] <merriam> dpro: processor-specific optimizations rarely make a big difference.  if you really want to compile things like firefox, maybe you want gentoo
[01:30] <darkersatanic> merriam: I'd like to recompile firefox on Ubuntu,
[01:30] <dpro> well i tried gentoo last week, i came so far as to install the bootloader, and then i couldnt figure out how to come further
[01:30] <darkersatanic> but I have a specific problem that I know can be fixed by recompiling eith gcc3.4 :)
[01:30] <merriam> dpro: do you have a url or file that causes firefox to crash?
[01:31] <dpro> 2 sec
[01:32] <dpro> merriam: its a javascript popup
[01:32] <dpro> ahh now i think why its crashing
[01:32] <dpro> maybe i symlinked the wrong libjava file
[01:33] <merriam> things run a lot more smoothly without things like java and real
[01:34] <dpro> i need java and realplayer
[01:34] <dpro> omg!
[01:34] <dpro> thats why im installing it!
[01:35] <HcE> javascript crashes firefox?
[01:35] <HcE> dpro: I made Java 1.4.2_05 work fine with my firefox
[01:35] <dpro> HcE: JRE
[01:35] <HcE> ok
[01:35] <HcE> apt-get JRE or JRE from SUN?
[01:36] <dpro> from sun
[01:37] <HcE> which libjavaplugin did you symlink?
[01:37] <dyn> Kamion: *pheeew* solved the issue
[01:37] <dyn> Kamion: no sfdisk magic helped, but i switched the hdd config in the bios to 'Large' mode, and winxp booted instantly
[01:37] <merriam> dpro: you can compile things with portage without installing a bootloader.  no partitions or rebooting -- run gentoo chrooted under ubuntu
[01:37] <dyn> now lets see if i can still boot ubuntu :)
[01:37] <HcE> dpro: I use i386/ns610-gcc32/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[01:38] <dpro> HcE: /home/username/jre1.5.0/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so
[01:38] <HcE> dpro: oh, I don't use jre1.5, jre1.4.2_05 for me
[01:38] <dyn> i've got the idea from the original mail mentioned the start of the LWN post
[01:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> 5.0 sucks
[01:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> badly
[01:39] <HcE> hehe
[01:39] <merriam> dpro: that way you can easily see how much compiling it yourself helps.  this is to darkersatanic too
[01:40] <darkersatanic> merriam: The recompilation bit for firefox is a known bug with a known fix.
[01:41] <darkersatanic> merriam: I'm running AMD64, and there's a compiler bug in gcc 3.3 that causes FF to be extremely unstable.
[01:41] <merriam> darkersatanic: so there will be a fixed official binary soon?
[01:41] <darkersatanic> Recompiling with gcc 3.4 is known to fix the problem.
[01:41] <Kamion> dyn: ah, good
[01:41] <darkersatanic> I don't know.
[01:42] <darkersatanic> I know that there were some issues with running gcc 3.4 binaries on a system compiled with gcc 3.3,
[01:42] <dyn> Kamion: i think that could be also added to the Ubuntu FAQ or even to Release Notes
[01:42] <merriam> have you tried mozilla.org builds of firefox?
[01:42] <darkersatanic> but it's worth a try, IMO.
[01:42] <darkersatanic> Do mozilla.org do amd64 builds?
[01:42] <mkyc-ubuntu> i sometimes think adobe are the most evil people on earth... and a special place should be reserved in hell for modern PDF's made with acrobat
[01:42] <smeggy> whats that mkyc-ubuntu?
[01:42] <Kamion> dyn: would MUCH rather fix it so it doesn't happen in the first place
[01:43] <Kamion> dyn: I hate documenting workarounds rather than applying fixes
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> smeggy, just sick of the bloared file size of adobe readers
[01:43] <smeggy> heh
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> the ppc one is 9mb
[01:43] <smeggy> yeah I guess
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> i mean come on 9mb
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> sigh
[01:43] <smeggy> still
[01:43] <smeggy> I couldnt live without pdfs :/
[01:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> me neither
[01:44] <smeggy> i'm a bitch to adobe
[01:44] <smeggy> and google
[01:44] <smeggy> :/
[01:44] <mkyc-ubuntu> but i could live without adobe readers.... ahhh xpdf
[01:44] <dyn> Kamion: you're right ofc.. and thanks for your suggestions :)
[01:44] <dyn> time to start work ;)
[01:44] <merriam> darkersatanic: i haven't looked into it.  if they don't, you could try an unofficial build from a mozillazine regular
[01:44] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol time for bed here
[01:44] <darkersatanic> merriam: It doesn't look like they do.
[01:45] <darkersatanic> I'm happy to try the recompilation, TBH.
[01:49] <merriam> darkersatanic: http://www.srijith.net/firefox/
[01:50] <merriam> darkersatanic: if you want to do it yourself, it's best to look at how other people have done it
[01:51] <darkersatanic> Thanks.
[01:52] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: firefox is stable for me on amd64.
[01:53] <darkersatanic> Mithrandir: I've had it fall over a few times last night.
[01:54] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: uhm, we _are_ already using gcc 3.4
[01:54] <Mithrandir> for firefox at least.
[01:55] <darkersatanic> Ah. I hadn't appreciated that.
[01:55] <darkersatanic> I saw that the default gcc was 3.3.4, and assumed that everything was built using that.
[01:56] <Mithrandir> all of mozilla is done with 3.4
[01:56] <Juz_visiting> if someone has been using debian sid for their main disro .. do you think they will be satisfied with ubuntu?
[01:56] <Mithrandir> I guess hoary will be done with 3.4 as default on amd64.
[01:56] <darkersatanic> In which case, I shall try to identify a reliable crash and report it.
[01:56] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: that would be appreciated.
[01:57] <Mithrandir> not that I _like_ to hack mozilla, though..
[01:57] <darkersatanic> :)
[01:57] <darkersatanic> I did have one page which seemed to crash quite reliably.
[01:58] <darkersatanic> It's got some information on it that I'd rather not release to the wide world, though.
[01:58] <Juz_visiting> also is it possible to upgrade to the final warty from the version I'm downloading now? I'm
[01:59] <Mithrandir> darkersatanic: if you can release it to just me, you have my pgp key.  Or, it's in the Debian keyring, at least.
[01:59] <Juz_visiting> hmmm so much for the responcive community I was reading about ........ thanks all
[01:59] <darkersatanic> Mithrandir: Sure. I'll send it to you this evening, when I can access my AMD64 box.
[01:59] <cybernout> oh
[02:00] <Zindar> Juz_visiting: yes it is
[02:00] <cybernout> thats a lot of users
[02:00] <cybernout> :) 
[02:00] <cybernout> i am amazed-----
[02:00] <topyli> Zindar: he's gone. patience lasted about 1 min 20 sec :)
[02:01] <Kamion> I sent him a message
[02:01] <cybernout> so who can enlighten me about the sudo and root of the ubuntu system?
[02:01] <cybernout> i treid updating it , but failed
[02:02] <merriam> cybernout: sudo apt-get update
[02:02] <azeem> cybernout: in what way did it fail?
[02:02] <cybernout> in setting an passwd
[02:02] <Kamion> cybernout: what command did you run, and what error message did it produce?
[02:03] <merriam> cybernout: it's the password you logged in with.  if you don't have the password for sudo, you can't have logged in
[02:03] <cybernout> no error just returns and is not changed
[02:03] <cybernout> hmm...
[02:03] <Kamion> cybernout: what command did you run?
[02:03] <cybernout> sudo passwd
[02:03] <cybernout> usual debian way
[02:04] <Kamion> I think you need 'sudo passwd root', but remember that that sets root's password, not the password sudo asks for.
[02:04] <topyli> that's not usual
[02:04] <cybernout> ah
[02:04] <cybernout> i got it
[02:04] <cybernout> its the users name that opens the root
[02:04] <topyli> sudo asks for you password, not roots
[02:05] <topyli> hrmh. your, root's
[02:05] <azeem> if you get an dialog box asking for the root password, that would be a bug
[02:05] <superted> root doesnt have a password on ubuntu
[02:05] <cybernout> okey , lets go over this step by step..
[02:06] <cybernout> if i wanto open an root console - it will prompt for the passwd
[02:06] <cybernout> right?
[02:06] <topyli> no
[02:06] <KnoppixUSER> no?
[02:06] <topyli> you don't want to open a root console
[02:06] <topyli> use sudo
[02:06] <cybernout> why not?
[02:07] <Treenaks> cybernout: you want to run some commands as root. you almost never want a complete root console.
[02:07] <Mayday> what do i apt-get to get the full desktop? i went for base when installing...
[02:07] <Kamion> cybernout: if you want to open a root terminal, it will ask for your password; sudo is set up by default to allow that for the initially-created user.
[02:07] <Kamion> Mayday: aptitude install '~tubuntu-desktop'
[02:07] <topyli> cybernout: if you really really want a root terminal, pick it up from the menu. it will ask for your password, not root's
[02:08] <topyli> Kamion: heh. we agree i guess
[02:08] <cybernout> whats the filosophy behinds this?
[02:08] <Mayday> Kamion: thanks
[02:08] <topyli> not to be root and break stuff by accident
[02:09] <cybernout> hmm, okey, but how secure will it be? any one can do sudo on my system?
[02:09] <Zindar> I think this usage of sudo will be default in most distributions within a few years....
[02:09] <Zindar> cybernout, only you by default
[02:10] <topyli> cybernout: only if they have your username and password
[02:10] <merriam> :)
[02:10] <cybernout> okey, i am starting to get the picture here..
[02:10] <azeem> isn't sudo access controlled by a group? 'adm' or so?
[02:10] <topyli> azeem: /etc/sudoers
[02:10] <Zindar> azeem: cat /etc/sudoers shows you
[02:11] <Zindar> azeem, not in ubuntu by default
[02:11] <azeem> except I don't have ubuntu installed right now :)
[02:11] <azeem> okie, thanks
[02:11] <_mikal> can someone cat their /etc/sudoers for me
[02:11] <_mikal> I did a dist-upgrade from xandros+debian testing
[02:11] <nate> there ought to be a /etc/evildoers
[02:11] <Zindar> Defaults        !lecture,tty_tickets
[02:11] <Zindar> # User privilege specification
[02:11] <Zindar> root    ALL=(ALL) ALL
[02:11] <Zindar> # Added by Ubuntu installer
[02:11] <Zindar> bagfors ALL=(ALL) ALL
[02:11] <_mikal> ok, thanks
[02:12] <_mikal> Then I did it right
[02:12] <topyli> nate: it's aliased to sudoers
[02:12] <topyli> so as not to scare newbies
[02:13] <nate> /etc/evildoers: no such file or directory
[02:13] <Kamion> andrey_: there is a root account, it's just disabled
[02:13] <nate> yippee! The war against Evil is won
[02:13] <topyli> nate: you should file a bug :)
[02:13] <ElBast> hey, has anyone managed to get gdesklets working from universe?
[02:14] <andrey_> Kamion: Thanks for the clarification. I should've stated that I like the setup surrounding the root account... :)
[02:14] <cybernout> is there an ftp site mirror list?
[02:14] <Mithrandir> cybernout: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[02:14] <topyli> actually i already nullified the nice ubuntu root thing and enabled root :)
[02:15] <cybernout> thank you
[02:15] <topyli> firestarter and <something i forget> want the root password
[02:15] <Treenaks> topyli: then those programs are b0rken
[02:16] <topyli> Treenaks: no, they are from unstable, not ubuntu
[02:16] <cybernout> any tips on an good program for the bttv tv card?
[02:16] <Zindar> cybernout, xawtv works
[02:16] <Treenaks> topyli: still, they should use an external program to become root, which in ubuntu would do sudo, and in unstable su
[02:16] <Treenaks> topyli: something like that
[02:16] <topyli> Treenaks: yeah, gksu i guess
[02:16] <cybernout> ok
[02:17] <topyli> Treenaks: i may fix it later, because the ubuntu way is better
[02:18] <topyli> Treenaks: all i would need to do is change the menu entry for those to do 'gksu firestarter' etc. Then i can disable root again
[02:18] <Treenaks> topyli: uh, yes..
[02:19] <elFarto> hello everyone
[02:19] <merriam> elFarto: hello.  new to irc?
[02:20] <elFarto> nope
[02:20] <elFarto> new here tho
[02:20] <Celettu> suppose someone liked Ubuntu very much, but doesn't have a lot of experience with either Gnome or Debian, and has some troubles configuring everything, would this be the place to ask? :)
[02:20] <elFarto> i just wanted to give some feedback about ubuntu
[02:20] <topyli> Treenaks: that wouldn't fix ubuntu wrt alien programs in general though, just my installation :)
[02:20] <elFarto> i've just installed it
[02:20] <Treenaks> topyli: if it was packaged differently it might work
[02:20] <merriam> Celettu: yes
[02:20] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok, hopefully ravel will come up now. :)
[02:21] <Treenaks> topyli: gksu should work on "plain" debian as well
[02:21] <elFarto> i only had 2 problems installing it..
[02:21] <merriam> Celettu: but see the help on the site too
[02:21] <topyli> Celettu: if there ever was such a person, they would probably be well advised to come in a place such as this one
[02:21] <Celettu> merriam great! I've googled around but there isn't that much on Ubuntu yet, and no forums, and I know NOTHING about Gnome, and it's not MS, and I'm still getting rid of Windows-thinking
[02:21] <topyli> Treenaks: yes
[02:22] <elFarto> 1) while it was updating all the packages wvdail came up and asked me if i wanted to auto configure it, problem was my usb keyboard wasn't working, i had to plug it into my ps/2 port to be able to press n
[02:22] <Celettu> merriam yeah, I looked. That helped installing nvidia-drivers and such, but there are some other things and I don't know if they're bugs, or simply gnome, or simply ubuntu, or something else
[02:22] <topyli> Celettu: come on, ask already :)
[02:23] <Celettu> like, for example, can the gnome panel be configured to show minimised apps of all virtual desktops, and not just the wone you're working in?
[02:23] <Celettu> sorry :P
[02:23] <Treenaks> Celettu: yes
[02:23] <Celettu> great!
[02:23] <Celettu> ...
[02:23] <Celettu> how? :P
[02:23] <Treenaks> Celettu: right-click the "handle" next to the "Computer" menu, select Preferences
[02:23] <Treenaks> (or Properties, don't know)
[02:23] <merriam> elFarto: debian culture is somewhat blind to dial-up.  i suppose ubuntu is similar
[02:24] <Celettu> yeah, tried that, but I can only choose the name, orientation, size...and things like background colour
[02:24] <elFarto> and 2) it incorrectly detected my nvidia graphics card as an SiS, it picked up "Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) Virtual PCI-to-PCI bridge (AGP)" as my graphics card
[02:24] <Treenaks> Celettu: you should right-click on the "handle" thing next to the program names
[02:24] <elFarto> merriam, that wasn't the problem, the problem was my usb keyboard wasn't setup correctly
[02:24] <merriam> elFarto: but i found my usb keyboard worked.  it may depend on setting "usb for dos" in the bios
[02:25] <Treenaks> Celettu: not on the empty part of the panel
[02:25] <elFarto> merriam, well on my other linux partition, my usb keyboard works just fine
[02:25] <Celettu> ah...ha...
[02:25] <Celettu> AH!
[02:26] <wongy> exit
[02:26] <Treenaks> Celettu: it works? :)
[02:26] <Celettu> whew, that was hard to find
[02:26] <Celettu> Treenaks yep. I rightclicked on the panel, not on the handle, since it's only one mm across...totally misse dit
[02:26] <merriam> elFarto: and it works fine on ubuntu now?
[02:27] <elFarto> hang on, i'm just playing
[02:28] <elFarto> yep, it's working fine now
[02:28] <elFarto> just not during the package update
[02:29] <Celettu> This is nice. Another thing...in Gaim it's possible to have the minimised windows flash when you receive a message...for some reason this doesn't work.
[02:29] <merriam> elFarto: so, as i said, that may depend on setting "usb for dos".  can you confirm that?
[02:29] <elFarto> Celettu, it is, but the gnome task list display...thingy doesn't support it afaik
[02:29] <Treenaks> Celettu: maybe there's a gaim plugin for that, or something in "window settings"?
[02:29] <elFarto> merriam, you want me to check that in the bios?
[02:30] <Celettu> Farto I thought about that, but it's a bit odd since gaim is built for Gnome. And it works great in KDE
[02:30] <Celettu> Treenaks it's a plugin, but it doesn't work. Neither does the "History" plugin for that matter...
[02:30] <elFarto> i think it works (the flashing thing) under sawfish
[02:30] <merriam> elFarto: yes.  it may be worth reporting
[02:30] <elFarto> or whatever it's called
[02:31] <elFarto> k, brb
[02:31] <pere> Im having trouble setting up network printing (through a SMC Barricade) under Ubuntu. 
[02:32] <topyli> Celettu: what i do is have the window pop up when someone sends you a message
[02:32] <pere> Ive set Host to routers IP, and queue to lp. Is that correct, or could it be something else
[02:32] <topyli> well, to me, not you :)
[02:32] <Treenaks> topyli: I do that too, but it's hell with metacity's focus problems in sloppy focus mode
[02:33] <topyli> hm, probablyl
[02:33] <topyli> bly
[02:33] <Celettu> top yeah, but that gets annoying REALLY fast :P
[02:33] <Celettu> suppose you're getting all cozy with someone in private and suddenly your mother pops up
[02:33] <topyli> Celettu: maybe, if you get lots of traffic
[02:33] <Treenaks> Celettu: you can make the status icon blink.. that works
[02:33] <Treenaks> like the old ICQ did :)
[02:34] <Celettu> Tree that could work. I'll try that :)
[02:34] <Celettu> okay, next :P Nautilus is also an ftp client, but it doesn't ask for passwords
[02:35] <Celettu> so if I want to conect to an ftp server which needs a login and apass, it just tells me I'm not authorised
[02:36] <elFarto> well, helpfully enough, my "USB Legacy Function" was set to auo
[02:36] <elFarto> er
[02:36] <elFarto> auto
[02:36] <pere> The Queue name under network printer settings is strange. It shows just asterix (at the moment two). If I try to change it to "lp1", close and come back. It is still just two stars there. Anyone else having problems setting ut a printer?
[02:36] <Treenaks> elFarto: auto = on if USB keyboard attached
[02:36] <elFarto> ok, so it was on then
[02:37] <topyli> Celettu: weird. it does offer to connect to "public ftp" or "ftp with login"
[02:37] <merriam> elFarto: this is odd.  weren't you using the usb keyboard before it asked about wvdial?
[02:38] <elFarto> well, that when it asked about wvdail that was the first place it didn't work
[02:38] <elFarto> booting off the cd it worked fine, and it worked all the way upto that point
[02:38] <elFarto> i mean, i had to hit enter to tell it to go update the packages
[02:38] <Celettu> top my bad. It does :P So what about password protected samba shares? :)
[02:39] <elFarto> so, very odd indeed
[02:39] <merriam> elFarto: and "usb legacy function" is the only usb setting?
[02:39] <elFarto> yep
[02:39] <topyli> Celettu: this i don't know. i guess you need to have the same username and password on the server... that's the easy way to connect to my samba shares from a windows box anyway...
[02:39] <mjr> hmm, anyone happen to know if nforce3 chipset's audio is properly supported in linux? (Considering getting a silent amd64 box and shuttle seems to offer that)
[02:40] <merriam> could it be a motherboard quirk triggered by probing?
[02:41] <topyli> Celettu: hm. just found a windows box on this here network. it simply asks for a password (which i don't have of course :)
[02:42] <Celettu> top: here it doesn't..."you're not authorised" :)
[02:42] <elFarto> not sure, because i plugged the keyboard back into the usb it worked
[02:42] <elFarto> without rebooting
[02:42] <Treenaks> Celettu: did you give it a password before, and told gnome to remember it?
[02:43] <maswan> Mithrandir: "now booting kernel" and then nothing more. Time for a second try then. :/
[02:43] <Celettu> Tree: nope, never asked me anything...
[02:43] <`anthony> Hey - fairly fundamental problem here. Installing onto a Dell dimension PC here, and the installer can't deal with the CDROM - fails to mount it. attempting to mount it manually whirs for a while then gives "invalid argument". Mounting on another box works, tho.
[02:43] <Mithrandir> maswan: yeah, guess so..
[02:44] <topyli> Celettu: the box i found wasn't a windows box after all :)
[02:44] <`anthony> I had a similar problem trying to install knoppix, so I'm wondering if there's something just not right with the CDROM drive... although installing FC or Debian stable works fine.
[02:44] <merriam> mjr:  there are mentions of nforce.  http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/HardwareSupport
[02:44] <mjr> merriam, thank you
[02:44] <Celettu> top ;) It does the same thing with my own windows partitions
[02:45] <topyli> Celettu: well those you can just mount after you give some love to /etc/fstab
[02:46] <Celettu> oh mounting them isn't a prob, but the dir where I mount them changes to read only
[02:46] <pitti> sabdfl: hal of the day is coming :-)
[02:46] <topyli> Celettu: are they ntfs? there's no ntfs write support in linux
[02:47] <Celettu> yeah. They are...but I shoudl be able to read them :)
[02:47] <ElBast> why is gcc not installed as default?
[02:48] <topyli> yes. so your fstab needs some lovin'
[02:48] <Celettu> true
[02:48] <merriam> Celettu: "read only", you said...
[02:48] <Celettu> I forgot that I had to change this in suse too
[02:48] <Kamion> ElBast: we debated it before the preview release and decided against it, since desktop users shouldn't require it; it's on the CD for those who need it
[02:49] <ElBast> kamion: which one do you recommend to install? i've seen 3.3 and 3.4 in synaptic
[02:49] <Kamion> 3.3
[02:49] <merriam> elFarto: that's my only guess -- it didn't like the hardware probing.  maybe the usb connection recovers after a while
[02:49] <Kamion> for the moment
[02:49] <ElBast> kamion: sweet, thanks
[02:50] <Celettu> actually, how do you manually mount a drive so that it becomes readable for normal users?
[02:50] <visik7> if u want a write support for ntfs try this http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/
[02:51] <elFarto> merriam, ok
[02:51] <topyli> visik7: isn't that still a bit dangerous?
[02:51] <elFarto> well, it all works now
[02:52] <topyli> Celettu: can't remember. dive in to the mount man page
[02:53] <Celettu> that's comforting :P
[02:53] <visik7> topyli I try it with an intensive write on a ntfs partition and I don't encounter any demage
[02:54] <topyli> visik7: good news (for your filesystem and for all of us :)
[02:54] <merriam> Celettu: it's readable anyway.  do you mean writable?
[02:54] <Celettu> readable for users
[02:54] <Celettu> it gets mounted readable only for root
[02:54] <elFarto> quick question, how can i install the kernel source?
[02:55] <topyli> Celettu: if fstab has the 'users' option, it's readable to whomever mounts it, iirc
[02:55] <elFarto> no matter, found it
[02:55] <Kamion> elFarto: note that if you're only trying to compile a third-party driver, linux-headers-2.6.8.1-3 should be enough
[02:55] <Kamion> elFarto: otherwise, linux-source-2.6.8.1
[02:56] <Kamion> Celettu: use the umask option
[02:56] <elFarto> ok, cheers
[02:56] <visik7> topyli this doesn't mean that it works perfectly
[02:56] <cybernout> got some extra sources in synaptic, and can install the universe now..:P
[02:56] <topyli> yes! umask 0 0 0
[02:57] <tseng> anyone getting: 
[02:57] <tseng> bash: /home/brandon/bin/firefox-tabs: /bin/bash: bad interpreter: Permission denied
[02:57] <Celettu> Kamion/top thanks :)
[02:58] <Kamion> tseng: chmod +x /home/brandon/bin/firefox-tabs
[02:58] <jono> hi all
[02:58] <topyli> visik7: personally i don't care, but there are people with windows still around :)
[02:58] <tseng> Kamion: all my bin/ is +x
[02:58] <elFarto> er...it says "linux-kernel-headers, installed version 2.5.999-test7-bk-16", when it says i have 2.6.8.1 kernel installed
[02:58] <Kamion> tseng: either that or the filesystem's mounted noexec
[02:58] <elFarto> am i missing something?
[02:58] <tseng> Kamion: hm its on nfs, but it worked yesterday
[02:58] <Kamion> elFarto: not linux-kernel-headers, linux-headers-2.6.8.1-3
[02:59] <elFarto> oh
[02:59] <Kamion> elFarto: linux-kernel-headers is there for internal use by glibc only
[02:59] <visik7> topyli personally I use windows :)
[02:59] <Kamion> (it should really be glibc-kernel-headers)
[02:59] <elFarto> right, got it
[02:59] <visik7> is 2.4 kernel usable on ubuntu ?
[02:59] <topyli> visik7: sorry about that. i hope all goes well =)
[02:59] <visik7> topyli :)
[03:00] <Kamion> visik7: you may be able to install it from universe and use it, and we've tried not to break it gratuitously, but I don't think it's been tested much
[03:00] <tseng> Kamion: noexec snuck in there somehow.. thanks
[03:00] <topyli> seems like i'm not very productive. might as well go home
[03:01] <Kamion> tseng: I tend to avoid noexec everywhere, since it doesn't really offer any benefit
[03:01] <Kamion> you can always do '/lib/ld.so.1 <binary>' or whatever to bypass it trivially
[03:02] <visik7> Kamion but the various scripts in ubuntu use sysfs 
[03:02] <visik7> =
[03:02] <visik7> ?
[03:04] <Kamion> visik7: new desktop features may indeed not work
[03:05] <visik7> :(
[03:05] <Kamion> visik7: which is why 2.6 is the only actively supported kernel
[03:05] <Kamion> why do you want 2.4?
[03:05] <visik7> 'couse acpi in 2.6 is quite crappy (at least for my asus laptop)
[03:05] <Treenaks> visik7: acpi in 2.4 is the same..
[03:06] <visik7> with 2.4 everythings goes ok
[03:06] <Zomb> visik7: then you are one of the few people where it is the case
[03:06] <Zomb> I need 2.6 for proper ACPI, for example
[03:07] <Zomb> Kamion: but do you provide a suspend script for acpid, to stop/restart hotplug, save mixer settings etc.?
[03:07] <visik7> Zomb maybe it's better if I submit a bug report
[03:07] <Zomb> yeah. In Debian.
[03:08] <Kamion> Zomb: I wouldn't know
[03:08] <Zomb> I will report it. IIRC I told Md but the problem has been forgotten.
[03:10] <Celettu> ah!
[03:10] <Celettu> hotplug
[03:10] <Celettu> another thing that doesn't work when I shove my USB stick in :P
[03:10] <azeem> Celettu: is hald running?
[03:11] <Zomb> there should be some kind of autofs-reconfigure-by-uuid-for-new-devices script for hotplug
[03:11] <occy> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2059    added an additional comment.
[03:11] <`anthony> Hm. Got it booting by going into expert mode and unselecting everything but the most generic sounding drivers. How odd.
[03:12] <occy> just posted the bug about my installl issues.
[03:13] <Celettu> azeemazeem yes :)
[03:13] <tortoise__> hello, how stable is the HAL thing on Ubuntu?
[03:14] <Celettu> azeem mounting it manually works great, but I have to mount /dev/sda, not /dev/sda1
[03:14] <dark_star> anyone know why i get to the ACPI: Subsystem revision 20040326 and it stops?
[03:14] <Kamion> dark_star: you might have one of the broken systems that needs to be booted with acpi=off
[03:15] <dark_star> i tried pci=noacpi...is that incorrect?
[03:15] <Kamion> that depends on the hardware
[03:15] <dark_star> i'll try acpi=off and see if that works
[03:16] <dark_star> should I get a different build?
[03:16] <dark_star> Kamion...you're a genius! That did the trick! Thanks!
[03:16] <Kamion> dark_star: which one do you have at the moment
[03:17] <Kamion> dark_star: cool; I have a laptop which needs the same thing
[03:18] <dark_star> I have the warty build that was listed on Distrowatch last week
[03:19] <merriam> will it8212 ide controllers be supported soon?  is there a better place to find out?
[03:22] <ElBast> hey, does anyone here have a dvb card they've got working under ubuntu?
[03:22] <Kamion> dark_star: hard to tell, but that might have been the preview release; there are newer versions linked from our web site
[03:22] <_mikal> ElBast, not ubuntu, but debian
[03:22] <occy> anyone here seen this upon installing (on VT F4):      Warning: **: bad d-i Packages file   grep:  /cdrom/dists/stable/Release     : Not a directory.      This repeats in a loop.
[03:23] <ElBast> mikal: what sort? it's been a while since i set mine up, and that was on fedora...
[03:23] <Treenaks> _mikal: -S or -C or -T ?
[03:23] <_mikal> -C
[03:23] <occy> I've used this CD to install without problems on my desktop, but this happens on my laptop.
[03:23] <Treenaks> _mikal: because I have an external USB -T device, but I can't get decryption to work (only one working TV station now :( ) 
[03:23] <_mikal> ElBast, dvb-c with CA slot and mpeg2 decoder and the works, hauppauge
[03:24] <ElBast> is there a better way to set up the /dev/dvb devices than downloading the cvs drivers and running the makedev script in there?
[03:24] <dark_star> Kamion...I'll try to get a newer one
[03:24] <_mikal> Treenaks, I haven't gotten it to work, they changed the encryption the day I bought it and I don't indend to pay for the channels
[03:25] <ElBast> okay, i've got a budget technotrend dvb-t... and i've just found out my the firmware i'm using in windows isn't supported by the current dvb kernel drivers
[03:25] <_mikal> ElBast, I seem to remeber that there was a script I used to create them with
[03:26] <ElBast> mikal: would that be the one that comes with the linuxtv drivers?
[03:26] <_mikal> ElBast, isnt the firmware loaded into the cards in some way by the driver? I seem to remeber reading something about it
[03:26] <Treenaks> the drivers should be updated so udev can create the devices
[03:27] <_mikal> ElBast, I think so, it was about 6 months since I last played with it
[03:27] <ElBast> mikal: yeah, the firmware is distributed in the windows drivers package, you have to copy it into a local directory so it's loaded when the kernel module is loaded
[03:27] <_mikal> I just recently read that cardsharing works now so I might get som use of it after all
[03:27] <_mikal> ElBast, ok
[03:27] <Treenaks> _mikal: cardsharing?
[03:28] <ElBast> treenaks: is there any way i can find out whether the current drivers support udev?
[03:28] <Treenaks> ElBast: I don't know
[03:28] <ElBast> hmmm... i guess i'll put that on my "must find out" list...
[03:29] <_mikal> Treenaks, one person buys all the channels and plugs in into a linuxcomputer with softcamd and other people can ask the same card about keys
[03:29] <_mikal> err, newcamd
[03:29] <Treenaks> _mikal: nice :)
[03:30] <_mikal> Treenaks, that is thw only way besides paying ~$100 a month to get the channels in god quality
[03:31] <_mikal> ..good..
[03:31] <Treenaks> _mikal: I pay EUR 8/month for 29 channels, but only one is unscrambled..
[03:31] <_mikal> Crappy swedish provider that changes encryption.. :)
[03:31] <TdC_VgA> Can it be passed over TCP/IP?
[03:31] <Treenaks> _mikal: but I have an USB dump from the windows-program setting up encryption
[03:32] <Treenaks> _mikal: so it might be possible to reverse-engineer it
[03:32] <_mikal> TdC_VgA, tcp od udp I don't know, but over the internet anyway
[03:32] <TdC_VgA> nice nice.. coop tv sharing.. hot
[03:32] <ElBast> hmmm... i don't suppose anyone knows why Gmail isn't working for me in firefox? it works in firefox on windows, but not in ubuntu...?
[03:32] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: you can stream DVB TV streams over the internet (UDP, multicast)
[03:32] <TdC_VgA> _mikal: what network is this thing for?
[03:32] <Treenaks> TdC_VgA: but _mikal is talking about sharing the encryption keys, not the rest..
[03:33] <Treenaks> (i.e. the entire TV stream)
[03:33] <TdC_VgA> Treenaks: so was i
[03:33] <darkersatanic> Treenaks: I do that on my home network from a DVB-T card.
[03:33] <Treenaks> darkersatanic: that's cool.. but it's boring to watch only once channel
[03:33] <TdC_VgA> alright i gotta go run some errands yada yada.. flying to chicago wednesday
[03:33] <_mikal> TdC_VgA, for the ecryptionschemes that newcamd supports.. conax, viaccess and some others
[03:34] <TdC_VgA> peace guys.. hope the broadcom stuff gets integrated into the kernel if its possible, cause i sure fubar;d my install hehe
[03:34] <darkersatanic> Treenaks: I'm working on it. :)
[03:35] <_mikal> Treenaks, does the usb reciever have a card slot or are you trying with a softcam?
[03:35] <spiv> Hmm, a recent upgrade seems to have broken rhythmbox (because esd is now running)
[03:35] <Treenaks> _mikal: it has a card slot
[03:35] <_mikal> dark_star, I think vlc has remote channel changing
[03:36] <_mikal> sorry, that was to darkersatanic ...
[03:36] <darkersatanic> _mikal: I'm just playing with it really. I mostly use it for time-shifting.
[03:36] <Treenaks> darkersatanic: working on it?
[03:36] <ElBast> darkersatanic: what software are you using?
[03:37] <darkersatanic> Treenaks: I'm reinventing wheels for the hell of it.
[03:37] <_mikal> Treenaks, ok, if it won't work to get it to read the card maybe you could try with a softcam and a seperate card reader
[03:37] <darkersatanic> ElBast: dvb-tools stuff, mostly. See http://www.carfax.org.uk/docs/DVB
[03:37] <Treenaks> darkersatanic: ah ok
[03:38] <Treenaks> _mikal: no, the usb thing won't send out data if the station is encrypted I think
[03:38] <Treenaks> _mikal: and, "conax for dvb-t" is a bit different that "conax for dvb-s"
[03:38] <Treenaks> than
[03:38] <_mikal> Treenaks, ahh, of course
[03:39] <Treenaks> _mikal: so I guess I need someone who can read/understand USB packet dumps
[03:39] <Treenaks> _mikal: I have one..
[03:39] <ElBast> darkersatanic: what sort of card is it, budget or full featured?
[03:40] <darkersatanic> Budget. Hauppauge NOVA-T
[03:40] <Treenaks> I have a DEC-2540-T
[03:40] <Treenaks> from Hauppauge as well
[03:40] <_mikal> Treenaks, mm, and some spare time :)
[03:40] <Treenaks> _mikal: yes, most likely
[03:41] <ElBast> darker: cool, same as me... how did you set up the /dev nodes? i've always used the script that comes with the linuxtv cvs drivers, but i've been wondering if there's a better way...
[03:41] <darkersatanic> I've been using devfs, and more recently udev.
[03:41] <Treenaks> _mikal: Hauppauge themselves told me, when I asked for the USB wire protocol that they couldn't tell me because the CONAX stuff is protected by an NDA
[03:42] <Treenaks> _mikal: which is weird, because it looks like it's nothing more than "turn on conax" and "turn off conax" messages
[03:42] <_mikal> Treenaks, sounds a bit strange, the commands should be on a higher level..
[03:42] <ElBast> darker: so they're created automatically in udev?
[03:42] <_mikal> Treenaks, yes
[03:42] <darkersatanic> ElBast: Umm. I think so. I'm not 100% certain that I've got udev working properly on that machine. :)
[03:42] <spiv> A recent upgrade has broken my rhythmbox, because esd is now running...
[03:42] <darkersatanic> ElBast: devfs certainly worked.
[03:42] <Treenaks> _mikal: do you have any idea where I could post this question? I've asked the DEC-driver maintainer, but he's too busy
[03:43] <ElBast> darker: well, i'm about to find out... :) 
[03:43] <darkersatanic> ElBast: Good luck. :)
[03:44] <_mikal> Treenaks, No, I don't think so. Some guy at linuxtv would be mu best guess
[03:45] <ElBast> crap
[03:45] <ElBast> unsupported firmware....
[03:45] <Treenaks> I'll ask on #dvb first..
[03:46] <ElBast> oh well, guess i'll try it out later. night all, thanks for all your help!
[03:46] <Treenaks> _mikal: One day... :)
[03:47] <_mikal> Treenaks, I know the feeling, I have an analog tuner card that is not supported yet...
[03:48] <Treenaks> _mikal: oh well, maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and dive into the protocol entrails
[03:48] <_mikal> Treenaks, by the time it is supported we probably have switched to digital in sweden.. 2006
[03:48] <Treenaks> _mikal: and make a nice document describing the protocol
[03:49] <_mikal> Treenaks, There are probably some tools to parse away the usb stuff thats not interesting
[03:49] <Treenaks> _mikal: I can recognise commands (0xaa 0x55) to the device.. and replies (after reading the driver..)
[03:49] <Treenaks> but "CONAX" packets are different
[03:50] <_mikal> Treenaks, what do they look like?
[03:53] <ForsaKen`> i downloaded a source file, i need to compile it, but i got alot of things missing, i remember that there was a command, that apt-get will find what does the source file need for compiling, and installs the things
[03:53] <Treenaks> _mikal: 0xaa 0x0f I think
[03:54] <Treenaks> The Conax packets appear to start                                         
[03:54] <Treenaks> 0xAAAAAA0043
[03:54] <nonroot> Hi all. Could someone else please check the date/time of the last message on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/thread.html - I think it's stopped :-(
[03:56] <_mikal> ok, I don't have a clue, bit I have a friend that made his own USB->IDE interface I could ask
[03:57] <Kamion> ForsaKen`: apt-get build-dep <package>
[03:57] <Treenaks> _mikal: I have the dump available if you want..
[03:57] <_mikal> yes, I'm not working anyway
[03:57] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[03:57] <_mikal> how big is it?
[03:57] <_mikal> Treenaks, could you mail it?
[03:59] <ForsaKen`> E: Unable to find a source package for xqf-1.0
[03:59] <Treenaks> _mikal: private message :)
[04:00] <Kamion> ForsaKen`: just the package name, not package-version
[04:00] <sabdfl> pitti: whoop! was getting withdrawal symptoms :-)
[04:00] <ForsaKen`> oh thanks
[04:00] <ForsaKen`> working :D
[04:01] <pitti> sabdfl: but don't eat it up completely, it fixes three bugs and has to last for a few days :-)
[04:01] <sabdfl> ok
[04:02] <Mithrandir> nonroot: proxied to listmaster, thanks for spotting
[04:11] <visik7> how can avoid make menuconfig to read my current kernel config ?
[04:23] <visik7> why ubuntu kernel-image-2.6.8.1 has all drivers enabled ?
[04:23] <visik7> it's long to disable all the unwanted drivers
[04:25] <dark_star> is there a keyin at boot time to enable my touchpad?
[04:26] <Kamion> visik7: they're enabled as modules, you can ignore them
[04:26] <visik7> Kamion, yes but they are compiled anyway
[04:26] <Kamion> visik7: most distributions do it like that, because otherwise there's no way to make the default work for everyone.
[04:26] <Kamion> visik7: yep
[04:27] <Kamion> visik7: we'd rather attempt to produce a kernel that normal users don't have to recompile
[04:27] <dies_irae> Hi, I just installed Ubuntu and think it's great! I'm dual booting though, and I'd like to access my mp3s on my win xp ntfs drive. I can mount the drive, but how can I set the permissions so that I can read it? Every time I chmod or even chown it says that it's a read-only filesystem and won't make the changes. I even tried adding it to my fstab with "user" option.
[04:28] <darkersatanic> dies_irae: You will probably need the "uid=", "gid=" and "umask" options to mount.
[04:28] <Kamion> dies_irae: you'll need to use the 'umask' option; umask=022 I'd expect.
[04:28] <visik7> Kamion, I erroneus say kernel-image-2.6.8.1 but I want to say linux-source-2.6.8.1
[04:28] <Kamion> shouldn't need uid and gid
[04:28] <Kamion> visik7: yeah, I know
[04:28] <opi^work> umask is enuff
[04:28] <opi^work> you can even pass uname=000 ;)
[04:28] <opi^work> umask
[04:28] <opi^work> d'oh ;}
[04:29] <dies_irae> So, just umask=022? Sorry, I'm new to this.
[04:29] <visik7> Kamion, ok nevermind is the make menuconfig that read /boot/config-2.6.8.1-2-386 and configure menuconfig like it
[04:29] <visik7> so all drivers are enabled
[04:30] <Kamion> visik7: I'm sorry, I can't understand that sentence
[04:30] <darkersatanic> dies_irae: Add to the list of options in fstab, comma-separated.
[04:30] <visik7> when I run make menuconfig I found all drivers enabled like a standard kernel
[04:32] <dies_irae> Yeah, I put umask=22, comma seperated, and while it mounts with r-x for group and user I still don't have access. I guess that I have to chown, but it still won't let me.
[04:32] <visik7> when I run make menuconfig I found all drivers enabled like a distro kernel
[04:33] <visik7> anyway removing /boot/config-* all works as I want
[04:33] <dies_irae> Can I just add gid=enso (my group/username)?
[04:33] <dies_irae> Or are the groups indexed by number somehow?
[04:34] <opi^work> dieman: they are
[04:34] <opi^work> dieman: I bet you have gid=1000 ;)
[04:35] <dies_irae> Yay, that worked. Thanks for your help, guys.
[04:35] <opi^work> ;)
[04:35] <dieman> opi^work: eh?
[04:35] <dieman> you must be using bitchx :)
[04:35] <opi^work> dieman: sorry, tab comp. throw your nick instead of dies_irae 
[04:35] <dieman> ahh
[04:35] <dieman> ok
[04:35] <opi^work> dieman: Xchat ;P
[04:36] <dieman> with bitchx if you do ie: it nick completes my name
[04:36] <dieman> panasync needs to learn how to ode :)
[04:36] <dieman> code, rather
[04:42] <tortoise__> when warty comes out on the 20th can I update to it using synaptic or must i install from cd again?
[04:42] <Treenaks> you can update
[04:44] <dark_star> my synaptic is not working at all...I'm new with Ubuntu so I probably misssed something...anyone have any ideas? I've gotten real used to tapping
[04:45] <Treenaks> dark_star: what doesn't work about it?
[04:45] <dark_star> Treenaks...the taps or the scroll
[04:45] <Treenaks> dark_star: taps??
[04:46] <dark_star> Treenaks...the tapping on the touchpad
[04:46] <Treenaks> dark_star: ah.. synaptic :)
[04:46] <Treenaks> uh no
[04:46] <Treenaks> synaptics
[04:47] <dark_star> Ya
[04:47] <Treenaks> that's different :) one is a package manager :)
[04:47] <Treenaks> uh uh
[04:47] <Treenaks> it should work..
[04:48] <dark_star> Treenaks...it shows in the XF86Config file, but it does not work.
[04:48] <Treenaks> dark_star: is the kernel driver loaded?
[04:49] <dark_star> Treenak..i have really done nothing other then install it...installed it about an hour ago...what would the driver be?
[04:49] <Treenaks> don't know.. I don't have a synaptics pad
[04:49] <darkersatanic> The driver is called "synaptics"
[04:50] <Treenaks> yes in X
[04:50] <Treenaks> also in the kernel?
[04:50] <darkersatanic> I think so.
[04:50] <darkersatanic> Let me check.
[04:51] <darkersatanic> Ah, no, it's just the input core mouse driver, I think.
[04:51] <dark_star> i see synaptics being loaded with the intial boot
[04:53] <opi^work> ok
[04:53] <opi^work> time to leave the office :)
[04:55] <october> hey gang, I need help getting X configed on my laptop.  
[04:55] <october> is there some gui tool I can use or something?
[04:57] <Pointwood> is there going to be a FinalFreeze version released today?
[04:58] <october> hmmm
[04:58] <october> xf86cfg doesn't seem to provide any love.
[04:59] <october> getting cannont open /dev/mouse
[04:59] <Agrajag> dexconf is supposed to do it when you install
[05:00] <october> Agrajag: that for me?
[05:00] <thisfred> Not very productive, so feel free to ignore, but anyone who worked on Ubuntu: Thanks! I've wanted to switch to Linux for a long time and now I did, and very smoothly at that. Great job!
[05:00] <Agrajag> october: yes
[05:01] <Agrajag> dexconf = debian x configurator
[05:01] <october> it asked me what res to set... and I picked the one I normally run.  
[05:01] <Agrajag> so you just need to change resolution?
[05:01] <october> no clue.... I'm used to Redhat/FedoraCore just working on it....
[05:01] <october> it worked fine on my desktop, and I have a nasty nvidia card there.
[05:01] <october> heh
[05:02] <october> thought it would have been easy here, and a pain on the desktop.
[05:02] <october> don't know how to configure X
[05:02] <Agrajag> how is nvidia nasty, their drivers are a hell of a lot better than the crap ati puts out
[05:02] <Agrajag> open up /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 in an editor
[05:03] <Agrajag> go down to the "Screen" section
[05:03] <october> Agrajag: on Fedora/Redhat, it's a pain to setup nvidia, but it was easy on ubuntu
[05:04] <mjr> the same way all of the big three are nowadays nasty; lack of open drivers and specs
[05:04] <Agrajag> mjr: There are open drivers for nvidia
[05:04] <Agrajag> it's called "nv"
[05:05] <mjr> yes, and those really take advantage of the card, now don't they
[05:05] <Agrajag> of course they can't open their specs, they're industry secrets, I don't see how you can fault them for being secretive.
[05:05] <october> Agrajag: I have my box with the nvidia card all setup and working fine.  It's this Dell Inspiron laptop 7500 I'm trying to get working now.
[05:06] <Agrajag> october: well, if you'd tell us what the actual problem is I'm sure someone could help.
[05:06] <october> Agrajag: I need to know how to configure X under ubuntu.
[05:06] <october> xf86cfg isn't working.
[05:06] <Agrajag> october: I told you. Open /etc/X11/XF86Config in an editor.
[05:07] <october> I don't understand how to put it any more plain.
[05:07] <Agrajag> If dexconf didn't work, you need to do it yourself.
[05:07] <Zindar> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 might work
[05:07] <Agrajag> maybe, but I think that would just run dexconf
[05:07] <october> Zindar: thank you, that's what I was looking for.
[05:08] <october> Agrajag: you need to be throrough before you offer advice or get upset with people.
[05:08] <Agrajag> upset?
[05:09] <Kamion> 'dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86' is the standard way.
[05:09] <Kamion> Agrajag: dpkg-reconfigure runs dexconf at a much lower debconf priority, so it will behave differently.
[05:13] <october> bummerific
[05:13] <october> :/
[05:13] <october> I KNEW I should have saved my XF86Config file.
[05:14] <october> heh
[05:14] <october> 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage Mobility P/M A
[05:14] <october> should work fine.
[05:15] <october> Agrajag: yeah, doing dexconf doesn't do anything, it just returns you back to the prompt. 
[05:15] <october> kill(20173, SIGTERM)                    = -1 ESRCH (No such process)
[05:15] <Agrajag> october: yes, it writes a new XF86Config based on what it thinks you want.
[05:16] <october> that happens when I run it through strace
[05:16] <Agrajag> odd
[05:16] <october> Agrajag: yeah... 
[05:16] <october> :/
[05:16] <october> *sigh* 
[05:16] <october> here we go.
[05:17] <Agrajag> yeah, I ran it through strace and it spat out all kinds of crap
[05:17] <october> there used to be a nice debian tool that lets you do a real simple X setup. 
[05:18] <october> I thought it was dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[05:22] <thom> october: that should work
[05:22] <october> thom: yeah...
[05:22] <october> thom: something isn't right. 
[05:23] <mjr> #25#3
[05:23] <october> thom: X was working fine here though under FC1 :/
[05:23] <mjr> oops
[05:28] <zwiebug> is there already a german irc channel up ?
[05:31] <jensens> zwieback: why a german one?
[05:32] <zwiebug> why not?
[05:32] <zwiebug> on the page there is a spanish one mentioned...so why not a few other languages?
[05:33] <october> well... sucktacular.  :(
[05:42] <jensens> zwiebug: well, to dont split the english one too early? but why not... /J #ubuntu-de
[05:43] <jensens> zwiebug: youre right this one is new
[05:47] <oqp> kin!
[05:49] <zigong> Anyone know if Ubuntu boots on oldworld macs? I'm downloading the distro, and I'm trying to find  list of suppported models somewhere
[05:49] <Kamion> zigong: sorry, no, newworld only at the moment
[05:49] <zigong> Ok, thanks
[05:50] <guptan> Hi Room
[05:55] <ForsaKen`> if i got a .deb file on the HDD, that i want to install, how do i do it ?
[05:55] <darkersatanic> ForsaKen`: dpkg -i
[05:55] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[06:00] <guptan> I can see windows networks in nautilus, but when I click on computer shares, it gives me a filetype error
[06:02] <visik7> with debian the installation of a kernel-image run lilo to install the kernel under ubuntu how it works ? since ubuntu use gentoo ?
[06:02] <visik7> sorryt
[06:02] <visik7> I mean grub not gentto
[06:36] <paueas> if i have a pentium m and i am compiling should i be compiling as if it were a 686?
[06:50] <t35t0r> does rms recommend ubuntu ?
[06:50] <Kamion> t35t0r: you'd have to ask him that :-)
[06:51] <t35t0r> ubuntu does sum up some of his philosophies
[06:52] <martink> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2004-September/msg00067.html
[06:56] <baietas> where is grub.conf in ubuntu? it's not in /boot/grub/grub.conf
[06:56] <thom> menu.lst, same directory
[06:56] <baietas> thank you :)
[06:56] <thom> grub.conf is a redhat only patch
[07:08] <viridis_> hi all, I have problems when doing 'apt-get update', is there any mirrors?
[07:09] <Kamion> viridis_: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[07:13] <afonit> Viridis:  did you try to go into terminal then synaptic?
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <viridis_> Failed to fetch http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/ubuntu/dists/warty/restricted/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[07:13] <afonit> in thta interace you can identify mirrors
[07:13] <viridis_> i get those messages
[07:13] <afonit> check what mirrors you have checked in synaptic
[07:13] <viridis_> i don't use synaptic
[07:13] <viridis_> i use apt-get
[07:13] <afonit> k, then I will be of little use
[07:14] <afonit> btw, synaptic, is the front end gui for apt-get
[07:14] <pyramid> is neighborlee here...he pm 'd me but i fell asleep
[07:14] <pyramid> he wanted to know more about ancient religions
[07:14] <viridis_> afonit, i know what synaptic is, i will try to use it
[07:14] <Kamion> actually synaptic is a frontend to the apt library; apt-get is a command-line frontend to the apt library
[07:15] <afonit> k, I was just sain' cuz you never know who know's what
[07:15] <afonit> kamion: thanks for the clarification
[07:17] <Pointwood> is there going to be released a new version today? I'm thinking of the "Final Freeze" which is supposed to be today
[07:17] <pyramid> hmmm...there hasn't been anything to compile on gentoo for a few days...i guess the programmers are tired and need a break.
[07:18] <bur[n] er> ;)
[07:19] <pyramid> does anybody know what a VHDL simulator is
[07:25] <MyIe3> hello
[07:28] <longsleep> pyramid: probably some virtual machine to emulate the VHDL language
[07:28] <Votum76> get a free ipod it really works my friend just got one http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=10026341
[07:28] <HcE> referer=10026341 <-- lol
[07:29] <RuffianSoldier> Hey all
[07:29] <HcE> let me guess? pyramid game?
[07:29] <HcE> hi RuffianSoldier 
[07:29] <RuffianSoldier> Anybody use Cedega or Wine??
[07:29] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: I use Wine
[07:29] <pyramid> longsleep, well i really don't know...i just saw it on packages.gentoo.org today..but i have no idea what it is.
[07:30] <RuffianSoldier> HcE, is it good?
[07:30] <longsleep> pyramid: VHDL is some programming language for embedded systems / chips
[07:30] <pyramid> well i don't see anything to compile on gentoo for a couple of days now.
[07:30] <pyramid> i guess the programmers need a break.
[07:31] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: it works for me, I use some windows only program
[07:31] <HcE> nothing fancy
[07:31] <RuffianSoldier> I have it, but im not sure how to use it
[07:32] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: wine <path to windowsprogram>
[07:32] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: I have WinXP on another partition, so I have it installed there
[07:32] <RuffianSoldier> wine ~/aim/aim.exe?
[07:32] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: but I only use Windows once a month, so I usually start the programs I need with wine
[07:33] <Zero-G> longsleep|out: Verilog Hardware Description Language - it's a way of programmatically decribing logic elements, their inputs and outputs and if you get good at it, you can design chips in it
[07:33] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: yes
[07:33] <RuffianSoldier> kewl
[07:33] <RuffianSoldier> thanks
[07:34] <pyramid> Zero-G, thanks for the advice...that was very informative.
[07:34] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: no problem :)
[07:34] <pyramid> but i really don't want to design chips...i had my fill of it with the character generator chip on the TRS-80.
[07:35] <pyramid> they kept burning out and we had to continually replace them.
[07:35] <Zero-G> AHDL is better, it's Altera Hardware Description Language - it's used for the same thing, but it is built into Quartus2, MaxPlusII and NIOS - if you get them, it will take your AHDL, lay out your wafer, simulate, optimise and generally get it's groove on
[07:35] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: you know Gaim supports AIM accounts?
[07:35] <RuffianSoldier> ya
[07:35] <Kamion> Pointwood: we release a new version *every* day, namely the daily builds. :-)
[07:35] <RuffianSoldier> i use it
[07:35] <RuffianSoldier> i was just making an example
[07:36] <HcE> ok *phew*
[07:36] <Kamion> Pointwood: we haven't talked about exactly how/when the final freeze will be implemented
[07:36] <RuffianSoldier> can wine play games???
[07:36] <RuffianSoldier> like- Wine ~/UT/ut.exe?
[07:36] <PerfDave> RuffianSoldier: Sometimes
[07:36] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: some, but seldom 3D games and so
[07:37] <HcE> RuffianSoldier: check up winex, but that is not that good either =/
[07:37] <HcE> I have my own gaming box ;)
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> same
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> i run XP on it
[07:37] <HcE> same
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> its fast
[07:37] <Zero-G> UT runs on Linux
[07:37] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, why do so many people wish to run MS software.
[07:37] <RuffianSoldier> 2gighz AMD, 512 RAM, 128MB radeon
[07:37] <HcE> Doom 3 also soon (TM)
[07:38] <RuffianSoldier> pyramid, Games
[07:38] <Zero-G> at least the original UT did - dunno about your new fangled versions
[07:38] <Zero-G> ] 
[07:38] <RuffianSoldier> oh ya, i can get the Linux installer for UT
[07:39] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, but why pollute your mind with someone else's perverted biases,prejudices,opinions,etc....Saint Peter said " Care not for the pollutions of this world."
[07:39] <HcE> I do play some Enemy Territory, that run smoothes in Linux
[07:39] <oqp> as long as minesweeper runs, I'm happy
[07:39] <RuffianSoldier> pyramid, I like just about all OSs and Computers!
[07:40] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, well i also like computers because the focus on nothingness....and i no longer want to pollute my mind with the pollutions of this world.
[07:41] <glam> hi every one.  I just install Ubuntu.  And this is the most easy debian install by far, since I had been using debian for a long time. 
[07:41] <RuffianSoldier> i saydthe same th ing
[07:42] <RuffianSoldier> i came from Libranet
[07:42] <RuffianSoldier> but i will go back when the new version comes out
[07:42] <Zero-G> traitor
[07:42] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, i don't even know why people watch movies either...and pollute their minds with propoganda,prejudices,biases,opinions, etc.
[07:43] <RuffianSoldier> i dont watch TV
[07:43] <RuffianSoldier> but i watch movies
[07:44] <glam> I mean easy, is that is also set up X very nicely, something like the Redhat does.  X just go up and running on the spot, unlike the debian stable, which you need to set it up after the install.
[07:44] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, but what for....the Ancient Greeks tried drama,poetry,art,music,philosophy,math and so on ...and for thousands of years have been asking what is entertainment?
[07:46] <RuffianSoldier> pyramid- im no longer answering your silly questions ;-)
[07:46] <topyli> pyramid: the romans found that out :)
[07:46] <pyramid> RuffianSoldier, well i am not sure that answers even exist...much like we now know space doesn't exist in certain areas nor does time itself.
[07:47] <topyli> pyramid: what does exist?
[07:48] <darkling> Can I drag this conversation out of the rarefied atmosphere it's currently floating in,
[07:48] <pyramid> topyli, well i have been focusing on nothingness for quite a while now...and i am convinced a "Creator" exists that goes by the name "I AM"/
[07:48] <darkling> and ask if anyone's got problems with AMD64, the stock ubuntu 2.6.8.1 kernel, and NFS?
[07:48] <darkling> Like... maybe... locking the machine up tighter than a mouse's arse?
[07:48] <topyli> uhh... ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[07:49] <pyramid> topyli, however i am not going to say that everything in the Bible is true...i don't believe that..but some of it appears to contain "Truth".
[07:49] <topyli> pyramid: so does much of "moby dick"
[07:50] <pyramid> topyli, yes but why did Captain Ahab want to slaughter mammals.
[07:50] <hazmat> because he's human
[07:51] <topyli> pyramid: why did abraham want the same?
[07:51] <pyramid> hazmat, yes...now we are getting somehwere.
[07:51] <hazmat> does it lead back to discussion of ubuntu  or am i on the wrong channel ? ;-)
[07:51] <spiv> hazmat: That there are short men with hairy feet? :)
[07:51] <pyramid> topyli, right...him too...like Jesus said...only he was from above...we are all from below...our father is the devil and was a murderer and a liar from the beginning and we are just like him.
[07:51] <hazmat> or shall we degenerate into a gentoo sucks discussion
[07:52] <topyli> pyramid: oh, i see.
[07:52] <topyli> but ubuntu kills not :)
[07:52] <topyli> there
[07:53] <hazmat> spiv, that somethings are precious to me, the light burns, nasty hobbits will steal me my precious.. ubuntu
[07:53] <spiv> hazmat: :)
[07:53] <topyli> feel the desmond inspiration!
[07:54] <topyli> touch the #ubuntu screen
[07:55] <MepisBelle> "User Error:  Replace User And Press Any Key"
[07:55] <pyramid> topyli, it seems to have something to do with people acting in their own best interests.
[07:55] <topyli> MepisBelle: i can't find the "any" key!
[07:55] <MepisBelle> Case in point.  <g>
[07:56] <topyli> pyramid: in whose interest are you talking off-topic scheisse on a technical ubuntu users channel?
[07:58] <oqp> "keyboard not found - press F1 to continue"
[07:58] <topyli> heh
[07:59] <fdr> hello... may I ask you a couple of questions please?
[08:00] <topyli> any question but that one :)
[08:00] <pyramid> topyli, that was excellent insight...
[08:00] <fdr> hmmm... ok sorry :)
[08:00] <fdr> ;P
[08:01] <topyli> don't ask to ask, ask away :)
[08:01] <pyramid> topyli, because i too am a child of the devil...and i will also suffer lustful desires.
[08:01] <topyli> sure, pyramid
[08:01] <topyli> now go get your medication
[08:01] <MepisBelle> Welcome to #Seminary
[08:01] <fdr> I'd like to try ubuntulinux and i am installing it on my very low-memory notebood... I'd like to set up some swap space with  swapon /dev/hda3   but there is no hda3 in dev... where is it?
[08:02] <pyramid> topyli, i get so tired of taking all that medication.
[08:02] <topyli> pyramid: good
[08:02] <topyli> fdr: dunno. anyone?
[08:02] <mwilson> fdr: Do you have such a partition?
[08:02] <topyli> fdr: i mean, either it's there or it's not :\
[08:03] <npmccallum> fdr: /dev/discs/disc0/part3 I believe
[08:03] <fdr> mwilson : sure I have :)
[08:03] <fdr> hmm
[08:03] <fdr> there is no discs under dev either
[08:03] <mwilson> fdr: The box thinks it's smarter than you, so it probably won't create the device node unless there actually is one.
[08:04] <topyli> try fdisk and check what it thinks you have
[08:04] <pyramid> topyli, what i can't understand is why we have to take all that medication just because we are insane.
[08:04] <mwilson> ubuntu would be so much nicer if you could shoot udev.
[08:05] <topyli> damn. nobody seems to have ops so pyramid is here to stay :)
[08:05] <fdr> topyli : hmm no fdisk or cfdisk available... what's the standard partitioner under ubuntu?
[08:05] <topyli> again, don't know :(
[08:05] <mwilson> sfdisk, maybe?
[08:06] <Kamion> fdisk should be available
[08:06] <mjr> hmm, couldn't find a definitive statement either from dri.sf.net or HardwareSupport Wiki, so does anyone know if Radeon 9250 has free 3d support (one would guess that it does, since it's apparently not that different from 9200, which does, but I don't like to guess)?
[08:06] <Kamion> the installer has its own partitioner, of course
[08:07] <mwilson> The installer has a "make one big partition" choice, you mean.
[08:07] <topyli> mjr: ubuntu has some ati and nvidia non-free drivers included
[08:07] <fdr> Kamion : yeah but the installer keeps complaining that it's entering low-memory mode, so I wanted to enable swap as soon as possible
[08:07] <Kamion> fdr: the installer itself tries to enable swap as soon as possible ...
[08:07] <Kamion> fdr: how much memory do you have?
[08:07] <fdr> Kamion : begin laughing... 32MB, if not less
[08:08] <pyramid> topyli, have you ever taken all that medication
[08:08] <topyli> that's plenty
[08:08] <Kamion> 32MB should be doable, though I haven't tried
[08:08] <mjr> topyli, indeed, but I'm going to buy me some hardware and there's a principle involved
[08:08] <npmccallum> fdr: you need to step through the language choices before it loads the ide modules
[08:08] <Kamion> 24MB is minimum I think
[08:08] <pyramid> topyli, for so many years 
[08:08] <Kamion> just go all the way up to the partitioner, it should swapon as soon as it can
[08:08] <topyli> mjr: always get matrox cards, is what i say :)
[08:08] <fdr> hmmmm maybe i should give the installer a chance to load modules :)
[08:08] <mjr> topyli, they've gone evil nowadays too, so...
[08:09] <WW_> There is a red icon in the Firefox tool bar, and its tooltip says "Critical Update(s) Available". I just dist-upgraded ubuntu, but this did not install a new Firefox.  Is this icon integrated with ubuntu?
[08:09] <topyli> huh? evil how
[08:09] <fdr> yep
[08:09] <topyli> mjr: most disturbing. what exactly have they done?
[08:10] <pyramid> topyli, how did unbelievers ever get in charge of everything in order to declare believers insane and give them medication.
[08:10] <fdr> ok thanks
[08:10] <fdr> swap is on now :)
[08:10] <mjr> topyli, what with the proprietary driver bullshit at least for parhelia
[08:10] <mdz> WW_: no, it isn't. pay no attention to the icon :-)
[08:10] <fdr> now the system can go happily trashing :)
[08:10] <topyli> mjr: well they had that for a while for the g550 as well, but integrated it in x later. much better than others
[08:11] <WW_> mdz: Commencing ignoring. Thanks.
[08:12] <Kamion> hmm, mem=32M and similar just seems to result in the system hanging; that's useful
[08:12] <mdz> does the initrd fit?
[08:12] <Kamion> mem=64M is fine
[08:13] <Kamion> the initrd is under 10MB
[08:13] <fdr> Kamion : I managed to launch the installer
[08:13] <fdr> i got to the main menu
[08:13] <topyli> hey, armageddon on finnish tv. i'll go see how my new sound system works :)
[08:14] <Kamion> could be just this dodgy laptop
[08:14] <fdr> but whatever I chose it says it's launching the partitioner, which does not start, then gets back to the main menu
[08:14] <Kamion> fdr: by that point fdisk should be available on tty2
[08:14] <neighborlee> anyone else having trouble apt-get update'ing ?...i'm getting gzip errrors still ...??( i'm trying to find kernel source for this 2.6.8 kernel that is default in ubuntu but no luck yet)
[08:14] <pyramid> topyli, this system reminds me of Ancient Rome...and it will fall eventually as Rome fell...the citizens beliefs are misplaced.
[08:14] <npmccallum> neighborlee: if you are behind a proxy it may cause those problems
[08:15] <fdr> Kamion : hmmm.. no fdisk under /sbin or /bin
[08:15] <neighborlee> npmccallum, no  proxy
[08:15] <oqp> csfidk maybe
[08:15] <oqp> cfdisk
[08:16] <Kosai> Kamion: Any luck getting your AMD64 box online?  I can bring home an ethernet cable from work if you're short of one.  :)
[08:16] <topyli> pyramid: what are going to _do_?
[08:16] <fdr> oqp : neither :-(
[08:16] <pyramid> topyli, i don't have the foggiest idea what to do about anything...the unbelievers are in charge of everything...there is nothing i can do.
[08:16] <fdr> hmm... parted maybe ?
[08:17] <Kamion> pyramid: please take this off #ubuntu.
[08:17] <mdz> neighborlee: you probably have some things listed twice in /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:17] <tseng> hah what is pyramid on about this time
[08:17] <mdz> neighborlee: make sure you only have 'main' and 'restricted' once each
[08:17] <topyli> how about #disappointed-suckers-who-thought-everything-is-going-to-be-ok-but-now-realize-its-not?
[08:18] <pyramid> tseng, well at this time i am on seqoquil.
[08:18] <Kamion> fdr: it's in /usr/sbin/; just type 'fdisk', you don't need to know the path.
[08:18] <pyramid> seroquil...but it changes all the time over the last 15 years.
[08:18] <Kamion> neighborlee: kernel source = linux-source-2.6.8.1
[08:18] <fdr> Kamion : i don't have any fdisk
[08:18] <vertical98> What is teh default root password for the preview edition
[08:19] <topyli> vertical98: nothing
[08:19] <topyli> no root
[08:19] <fdr> Kamion : could it be /bin/parted ?
[08:19] <Kamion> fdr: try booting in expert mode and see if you can select fdisk-udeb when prompted for
[08:19] <Kamion> fdr: parted isn't fdisk, but you can try using parted from the command line if you like, yes
[08:19] <Pointwood> Kamion: okay, thanks for the info - just wondering since I downloaded the preview and was gonna install it :)
[08:20] <Kamion> Pointwood: you'll be able to upgrade anyway
[08:20] <Pointwood> I know :)
[08:20] <neighborlee> Kamion, well problem is I can't even find that one
[08:20] <oqp> vertical98, try "sudo su" at the prompt.
[08:20] <Kamion> Kosai: hm, let me look around downstairs to see if there's one long enough
[08:20] <Pointwood> just wanted to get the latest fixes and got BW to burn :)
[08:20] <pyramid> tseng, does that answer your question.
[08:20] <neighborlee> Kamion, Its only listing up to 2.6.7
[08:21] <tseng> yes, it was rhetorical anyway
[08:21] <pantz> do i need to add a repo to my sources.lst to be able to install the ati 3d drivers?
[08:21] <topyli> vertical98: better yes, 'sudo <any-command>', then give your own password
[08:21] <pantz> non-free maybe?
[08:21] <neighborlee> Kamion, apparantly due to my gzip errors :(
[08:21] <topyli> s/yes/yet
[08:21] <Kamion> neighborlee: linux-source, not kernel-source.
[08:21] <Kamion> neighborlee: ah, well yes, if mdz's theory is correct then you only have universe
[08:22] <Kamion> neighborlee: I also suggest removing the duplicate 'main restricted' entries that I bet you have in /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:22] <topyli> pantz: "restricted". i think it's enabled by default
[08:22] <noppiks> hi, ubunti included winXP in grub, but when i select it, it won't boot. grub entry seems right. sounds familiar to anyone ?
[08:22] <pantz> topyli: tx
[08:22] <neighborlee> Kamion, checking
[08:22] <Kamion> noppiks: bug #1566?
[08:22] <noppiks> oh thanks, ill check
[08:22] <james_> i am having a problem where my web browsers crash when a download dialog box opens.  happens in firefox, mozilla, and epiphany
[08:22] <neighborlee> mdz: sorry didn't catch your post..i'm checking now
[08:23] <mdz> neighborlee: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1469
[08:23] <pyramid> tseng, how the unbelievers ever got in charge i will never know..but it is not new...even Pontius Pilate asked "What is Truth?"
[08:23] <neighborlee> mdz: yes I have dups but sources.list is as it came installed...checking bugzilla now thx
[08:24] <mdz> pyramid: knock it off
[08:24] <riley> woo hoo!  I just got ubuntu working!
[08:24] <fdr> well, I got visits
[08:24] <fdr> I'll work on ubuntu another time :)
[08:24] <fdr> thanks for your help!
[08:24] <riley> sorry, i'm just excited because it's the third try
[08:24] <mdz> neighborlee: it was fixed for new installs some time ago, but existing sources.lists are not updated
[08:26] <MyIe3> hello
[08:27] <noppiks> Kamion, #1566 seems like a fscked partition table. i didnt use Pmagic, just cfdisk so should be alright i think
[08:28] <vertical98> thanks
[08:29] <MyIe3> i can't start my X . when i try to start my X ( with ) gdm i get  the strangest error .... some thingy like  "unable to read ICE authority "... when i check the Xsession-errors file i c that  it says KThemeStyle cache seems corrupt!.. 
[08:30] <MyIe3> the problem is tyhat i even don't have KDE 
[08:30] <mdz> MyIe3: did you by any chance run k3bsetup?
[08:30] <MyIe3> no i  don't think i have 
[08:30] <mdz> because it has a bug which breaks your session in just that way
[08:31] <vertical98> Tried sudo insmod 3c515 then get password prompt
[08:31] <MyIe3> i didn't tryed to burn ... as far that i can remmber 
[08:31] <riley> Is there some kind of hardware browser or a command i can use to see my hardware that is detected?
[08:31] <vertical98> anything I type is incorrect
[08:33] <hazmat> riley, install hal-device-manager ui
[08:33] <tortoise__> hi, is their a script i can run to setup my wifi card?
[08:35] <noppiks> Kamion, it seems that there serveral problems with grub. no quick n dirty fix available ?
[08:35] <pyramid> mdz, ok i will knock it off...as you wish..but there is little to do today..the programmer's seem to be taking a break and getting some well deserved rest
[08:35] <vertical98> asks for password anything I type is wrong
[08:35] <tortoise__> i didnt have the card in at install is there a way to run the script after
[08:35] <pyramid> programmers
[08:35] <mdz> pyramid: they are?  I must have missed that memo :-P
[08:35] <neighborlee> mdz: okay the 'ftp' change made it work but not removing the original entries 
[08:36] <RuffianSoldier> I got wine to work
[08:36] <RuffianSoldier> tested it with MmIRC
[08:36] <RuffianSoldier> mIRC
[08:36] <pyramid> mdz yes just look at the paltry offerings today at packages.gentoo.org...nothing much to do today
[08:36] <pyramid> mdz, or even the last couple of days
[08:36] <MyIe3> u don't have any Idea what should i do
[08:36] <MyIe3> ?
[08:37] <pyramid> mdz, i think i am going to experiment with glom....i finally got it compiled...and it looks interesting
[08:37] <dieman> *yawn*
[08:37] <pyramid> dieman, i can see www.glom.org bores you
[08:38] <vertical98> after I reboot, I need to insmod 3c515 so I have networking does anyone know how I can do this
[08:38] <noppiks> MyIe3, you installed a 'bare' ubunti system, and then apt-get installed kde?
[08:39] <noppiks> vertical98, try 'sudo modprobe 3c515'
[08:39] <mdz> vertical98: if it is a PCI card, please file a bug so that it can be autodetected and Just Work
[08:39] <vertical98> I did, it asks for a password
[08:39] <vertical98> 3c515 is a 10/100 isa
[08:40] <noppiks> you _do_ know your password do you? :)
[08:40] <MyIe3> noppiks:yeah i have  though ... i removed it as soon as i sow Gnome
[08:40] <vertical98> during the install I can modprobe the module and it gets its ip via dhcp
[08:40] <vertical98> it has never asked me to set the root password
[08:41] <mdz> see topic
[08:41] <noppiks> MyIe3, not the nicest way, but maybe just reinstall with gnome?
[08:41] <vertical98> then I reboot and it runs a config/install script and I can not install the driver again
[08:41] <noppiks> vertical98, you're right, but with sudo you just user your normal passw
[08:41] <mdz> the FAQ answers that question, and probably a few more as well for free :-)
[08:41] <vertical98> ok, I did not know that I try it
[08:42] <noppiks> mdz, you a dev?
[08:42] <MyIe3> <noppiks: u mean i should remove  Gnome and try to reinstall it .... 
[08:43] <ForsaKen`> how do i install an .rpm in ubuntu ? i forgot :/
[08:43] <vertical98> wow RTFM does work..thanks
[08:43] <noppiks> ForsaKen`, i wouldnt if i were you
[08:43] <ForsaKen`> lol
[08:43] <[Clint] > ForsaKen`: check out alien
[08:43] <noppiks> MyIe3, reinstall ubuntu all the way if it isnt too much of hassle
[08:43] <noppiks> ForsaKen`, really :) try a .deb from debian, or compile it yourself
[08:43] <ForsaKen`> it is the radeon drivers, they come only with rpm
[08:44] <noppiks> try alien, make a tar file of it, then follow manual
[08:44] <MyIe3> <noppiks: :\ it is ... but i think i dont  have any choice .....
[08:44] <ForsaKen`> what is the command to make it a tar ?
[08:44] <noppiks> ForsaKen`, dunno, man alien
[08:45] <noppiks> MyIe3, your problem is problably solvable but in that amount of time you'll probably have ubuntu reinstalled again i think
[08:45] <noppiks> or someone else maybe can help, i gotta go
[08:46] <noppiks> tabee
[08:46] <MyIe3> <noppiks: :LOLOLOLOL yeah ...
[08:47] <MyIe3> <noppiks well i have enjoyed the !st time i installed it  i guess i will enjoy it again 
[08:47] <MyIe3> yay for mt
[08:47] <MyIe3> yay for me
[08:47] <goatboy_> ForsaKen`: if you want to install the binary radeon driver, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[08:47] <tortoise__> How do I run the network configure script?
[08:48] <Uranus> anyone have a weird bug that sometimes you click on a window by its titlebar to drag it somewhere else, but for some reason your click isn't registered? so you have to calmly click the titlebar and make sure it's being dragged?
[08:49] <pyramid> does ubuntu offer glom for its users
[08:50] <pyramid> it would seem useful if it works..but i am not sure of that at this time...however it does come up
[08:50] <ForsaKen`> i tryed to shutdown my X, i used ctrl+alt+backspace
[08:51] <ForsaKen`> and then X is coming up back, how can i kill it ?
[08:51] <Keybuk> ForsaKen`: /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[08:51] <RuffianSoldier> And for my next experiment, i will try to get UT to work with Wine!
[08:51] <pyramid> i just have a problem configuring the postgresql backend....it is quite confusing to me
[08:51] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[08:51] <Keybuk> (or just kill it about 5 times on the trot quickly :p)
[08:51] <fnordotronic> anyone know what the command is to bring up the device manager? it disappeared from my menu
[08:51] <Uranus> RuffianSoldier: doesn't UT have a native version?
[08:52] <Keybuk> fnordotronic: install hal-device-manager
[08:52] <Uranus> fnordotronic: yeah, that happened to me too a couple of days ago, it was removed from my system completely. had to get it with synaptic again
[08:52] <pyramid> how did postgresql ever become so large and bloated and confusing
[08:52] <fnordotronic> Keybuk and Uranus, thanks, problem solved
[08:53] <RuffianSoldier> uranus, yes
[08:53] <Uranus> RuffianSoldier: then why do it with wine?
[08:53] <pyramid> i wonder how long they have been working on postgresql
[08:53] <RuffianSoldier> uranus, its for GOTY
[08:54] <[Clint] > pyramid: probably since they changed the name from Postgres95
[08:54] <Uranus> oh
[08:54] <pyramid> [Clint] , oh you mean it goes back that far
[08:54] <[Clint] > farther
[08:55] <pyramid> well i guess i need to read quite a bit to set it up and test what we have on glom
[08:55] <vertical98> can someone remind me again how to set eth0 up for dhcp with ifconfig?
[08:56] <pyramid> reading the docs on postgresql reminds me of the first time i saw man mount....it was quite confusing
[08:56] <pyramid> when i looked at man mount i saw a zillion options
[08:57] <[Clint] > vertical98: auto eth0
[08:57] <vertical98> I keep getting the error unable to lookup hostname by gethostname()
[08:57] <[Clint] > veritcal98: iface eth0 inet dhcp
[08:58] <goatboy_> RuffianSoldier: there's an installer for both the GOTY and the original version.
[08:58] <vertical98> both auto and iface give no such command
[08:59] <riley> just wondering, does sound juicer go really slow all of the time or is it just my comp?  because it's going at about 0.5x on a 52x drive
[09:00] <[Clint] > vertical98: you put those in /etc/network/interfaces
[09:00] <memer> does anyone know if it's possible to easily set up xvesa via ubuntu?
[09:01] <mwh_> hmm gpdf seems to be buggy :( doesnt realy show any pdf files seems that it needs to be recompiled against the new gnome libs
[09:03] <vertical98> I modified modules to hopefully install the 3c515 module so I can finish the install
[09:03] <LinuxJones> hi everyone
[09:04] <nasdaq4088> hi
[09:04] <mwh_> LinuxJones: hi there
[09:05] <neighborlee> hey guys..where is 'gmake'...its not listed even at debians site but I  need it for one of my projects..???
[09:06] <akra> anyone else using thunderbird on ubuntu ?
[09:06] <Kamion> neighborlee: that's what non-GNU/Linux people call 'make'
[09:06] <Kamion> gmake == GNU make on systems where there's a different proprietary make
[09:06] <neighborlee> ohhhhhhh
[09:07] <neighborlee> hmm
[09:07] <neighborlee> LOL
[09:07] <neighborlee> k thx
[09:07] <akra> having a problem getting thunderbird to create a compose window when I click a mailto link from firefox...
[09:07] <Keybuk> though non-GNU make probably deserves to be renamed to "break" these days
[09:07] <daniels> heh
[09:07] <pyramid> mwh_, gpdf works here..i printed a 200 page doc on religion.
[09:08] <pyramid> gpdf and it did not hiccup at all...but i built it with gnome2.8 stuff
[09:09] <mwh_> pyramid: is this with a fully updated ubuntu system?
[09:09] <martink> gpdf binaries compiled with libgnomeprint 2.7.9x don't work with libgnomeprint 2.8.0
[09:09] <Uranus> hey guys, why doesn't my cd-burner get recognized as a cd burner? k3b, eroaster, etc, say it is a cd-reader and that I don't have a cdburner in my system
[09:10] <pyramid> mwh_, i don't have any extra hardware for ubuntu...but if i get some hardware i will be checking it out...it seems very interesting from what i hear on this channel
[09:10] <bur[n] er> pyramid: better than gentoo ;)
[09:10] <pyramid> bur[n] er, yes it would seem to be a lot easier than gentoo
[09:11] <mwh_> pyramid: ahh well you need to install ubuntu to have gpdf fail ;)
[09:11] <imka> where can i have a look at ubuntus package repo? im using fedora @ the moment
[09:11] <pyramid> mwh_, well i suspect that you only need to build gnome 2.8 properly first and then recompile gpdf
[09:12] <Kamion> imka: http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/
[09:12] <pyramid> i don't seem to have many problems on gnome 2.8...but i don't test everything.
[09:12] <mwh_> pyramid: well im not maintaining the ubuntu or debian packages of gnome so I probably wont be that person
[09:12] <bur[n] er> pyramid: i was just playin... debian packages are a helluva lot faster than portage though
[09:13] <mwh_> pyramid: anyways I have sent a bug report to the maintainer of the debian package
[09:13] <pyramid> bur[n] er, yes portage can take forever sometimes...no doubt about this
[09:13] <pyramid> bur[n] er, what gets me is all those vodoo patches that seem to come with every tarball..i have no idea what they do.
[09:13] <Jemm> Anyone know what package to install in Ubuntu to get a window manager under gnome?
[09:14] <[Clint] > metacity?
[09:14] <LinuxJones> Jemm, what wm do you want to run ?
[09:14] <pyramid> bur[n] er, i wonder where gentoo gets all those vodoo patches from in the first place
[09:14] <bur[n] er> their lead dev is a witch doctor ;)
[09:15] <Jemm> I have installed a custom Ubuntu system then added gnome with aptitude.  Works fine but there is no window manager under gnome so can't move or resize windows
[09:15] <pyramid> bur[n] er, well it is a mystery...that is for sure....so is their bootable CD...it does not appear to be a debian derivative
[09:15] <bur[n] er> the gentoo bootable cd?  of course not!  it's gentoo based ;)
[09:16] <pyramid> bur[n] er, well nearly every distro of linux is actually a debian derivative..they all rely on the debian isolinux approach..but gentoo seems unique in this regard
[09:16] <LinuxJones> Jemm,  That's odd do you have metacity installed ?
[09:16] <pyramid> bur[n] er, it is just a mystery
[09:17] <tseng> what does gentoo have to do with anything
[09:17] <Jemm> LinuxJones.   No, what is metacity?
[09:17] <tseng> gentoo doesnt even have a "lead dev"
[09:17] <pyramid> tseng, well that is what we don't know
[09:17] <LinuxJones> Jemm,  a wm
[09:17] <Jemm> Thanks,   I'll give it a try.    
[09:17] <bur[n] er> not true... isolinux is not in every livecd....  kanotix uses grub.. as does morphix
[09:18] <LinuxJones> Jemm,  It shlod have been installed as part of Gnome I would assume.
[09:18] <LinuxJones> Jemm, err should
[09:18] <memer> anybody got any good guesses about how i could use xvesa with ubuntu??
[09:22] <Jemm> LinuxJones,    You rock.    I am installing on a small drive and Ubuntu wanted to use more space than I have so I've been installing smaller packages.   I always thought that gnome used sawfish as it's wm.  Thanks for your help
[09:22] <vertical98> Will Ubuntu run acceptably on a Pent-200?
[09:23] <LinuxJones> Jemm, no problem :)
[09:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> vertical98: not really
[09:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> I mean.. sort of
[09:23] <Jemm> vertical98 ,  I just installed on a Pent-166.  Seams fine so far
[09:23] <mjg59> memer: From a terminal, sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[09:23] <Mithrandir> vertical98: depending on amount of ram, I'd guess.
[09:23] <mjg59> It'll let you choose which driver you need
[09:23] <Hrdwr_BoB> p200 is .. dark ages
[09:23] <mjg59> vertical98: With plenty of RAM, it should be fine (well, except for openoffice...)
[09:23] <vertical98> Can you recommend a desktop for a p-200 64 mg ram
[09:24] <memer> mjg59, really!? thass it?
[09:24] <mjg59> memer: That'll launch the configuration program. When it asks for the driver, choose vesa
[09:24] <imka> few questions before i download the iso
[09:24] <imka> is there mplayer (with dvd support) in the repo?
[09:25] <imka> tvtime?
[09:25] <imka> and what will be the changes in the stable version = should i wait or no?
[09:25] <memer> mjg59, sorry if this is stupid, but just makin sure...we're not confusing vesa with Xvesa are we?
[09:26] <mjg59> Uh. Hang on - do you mean the kdrive Vesa server?
[09:26] <LinuxJones> imka, not in the official repo but you can find mplayer easily. check out the faq >>http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[09:26] <bur[n] er> imka: you have to get libdvdcss yourself
[09:26] <bur[n] er> dvd support is not free... hence not included 
[09:27] <LinuxJones> imka, tvtime is available in the universe repo
[09:27] <bur[n] er> wtf is tvtime?
[09:28] <imka> a tv watching app
[09:28] <bur[n] er> oh... better than gtv? or kde's tv app?
[09:29] <vertical98> quit
[09:30] <imka> its definetly better than kdetv. i dont know gtv though
[09:30] <dablitz> i cannot seem to get totem or xine to work right with my dvd rom, can someone help me out
[09:31] <bur[n] er> dablitz: got libdvdcss?
[09:31] <LinuxJones> dablitz, did you have a peek @ the faq on the wiki page ?
[09:31] <dablitz> i am pretty sure i did, but when I run totem, it won't even load
[09:31] <dablitz> wiki page/
[09:31] <dablitz> ?
[09:32] <imka> i dont like marillats stuff. i tried to install mplayer with dvd support back in the days i was using debian but it was buggy
[09:32] <bur[n] er> totem doesn't load?
[09:32] <bur[n] er> get an error?
[09:33] <dablitz> yes--hold on I will get the error for you
[09:33] <dablitz> /dev/dsp: Device or resource busy
[09:35] <bur[n] er> heh, that's a sound card issue... got any other music apps open?
[09:35] <bur[n] er> and if you say no... i say.. you lie
[09:36] <bur[n] er> do a 'ps ax' and look for some audio app
[09:36] <defendguin> ubuntu seems to be stalling during boot when it starts up ACPI daemon
[09:36] <tortoise__> x seems awfully slow and i dont know why...
[09:37] <spiv> dablitz: Chances are that esd has /dev/dsp open, and you need to configure totem to use esd instead of alsa.
[09:37] <bur[n] er> tortoise__: video card drivers?
[09:37] <bur[n] er> tortoise__: Hz that your refresh rate is set to?
[09:37] <tortoise__> ive always just left them default before
[09:38] <bur[n] er> got a runaway process?  top?
[09:38] <defendguin> ok this is the 3rd time in a row my laptop wont boot
[09:38] <defendguin> i need help now :(
[09:38] <utter_noob> anybody know any urls for helping solve install problems please?
[09:39] <defendguin> i keep having to pop the battery out in order to shut down the laptop
[09:40] <bur[n] er> defendguin: you can't hold the power button for 5 seconds?
[09:40] <defendguin> im new to laptops i didnt know there was a 5 second rule
[09:41] <bur[n] er> with any atx motherboard there is
[09:41] <bur[n] er> desktop/laptop, whatever
[09:41] <dablitz> spiv how do I cange from alsa to esd?
[09:41] <defendguin> this really sucks
[09:41] <defendguin> 4 times in a row now
[09:41] <bur[n] er> boot linux single?
[09:41] <defendguin> bur[n] er, huh?
[09:42] <bur[n] er> new to linux?
[09:42] <defendguin> no
[09:42] <dablitz> i am
[09:42] <bur[n] er> never booted linux single?
[09:42] <bur[n] er> it's a basic runlevel
[09:42] <bur[n] er> no x
[09:42] <bur[n] er> kinda like 'safe' mode for windows
[09:42] <defendguin> im going to try the recovery mode
[09:43] <riley> anybody know why it might be that cd player and totem skip about as much as a diskman that's been dropped about 5 or 10 stories?
[09:43] <bur[n] er> i think that boots linux single ;)
[09:43] <bur[n] er> riley: processor usage up to 100%?
[09:43] <riley> bur[n] er: how do i check that?
[09:43] <bur[n] er> uhh.. top?
[09:43] <bur[n] er> i know there's a gnome app, but it escapes me atm
[09:43] <bur[n] er> i always use gkrellm
[09:44] <bur[n] er> gnome-system-monitor
[09:44] <riley> bur[n] er, i have a pretty good processor though, amd64 1.7GHz
[09:44] <vertical98> are the MD5SUMS upto date on the United States mirror?
[09:44] <bur[n] er> well... check anyway
[09:44] <riley> bur[n] er, it's at 5%
[09:44] <bur[n] er> this is when playing an audio cd?
[09:45] <riley> well actually it switches from 5 to 20 as it skips
[09:45] <riley> yes this is playing an audio cd and using x chat
[09:45] <bur[n] er> hrm... i'm not exactly sure... can you set buffering options?
[09:45] <bur[n] er> to be honest, i haven't used totem or cd player all that much
[09:46] <riley> well everything about the cd-rom drive seems to be going slow... it's a 52x drive and when i try to rip tracks it rips at 0.5x
[09:47] <riley> i assume regular audio playing speed would be 1x, so that would be pretty slow, right?
[09:47] <bur[n] er> do you ahve your audio cable hooked up?
[09:47] <spiv> dablitz: If totem is using gstreamer (the default, unless you've installed totem-xine), run gstreamer-properties... it should be set correctly by default, though :/
[09:47] <bur[n] er> from drive to sound card?
[09:47] <mjg59> riley: Can you from a terminal try sudo hdparm -d 1 /dev/hdc (assuming that your CD drive is the secondary master)
[09:47] <riley> yeah i've got it hooked
[09:47] <defendguin> bur[n] er, i dunno what can i do after get in recovery mode? rmmod acpi?
[09:47] <bur[n] er> defendguin: go to /etc/init.d and chmod -x the acpi service
[09:48] <riley> mjg59: ok i'll try that
[09:48] <spiv> riley: You might need to run hdparm on your dcdrom device...
[09:48] <bur[n] er> what's hdparm do?
[09:48] <defendguin> bur[n] er, chmod -x gives permissions to what?
[09:49] <defendguin> gives what permissions
[09:49] <bur[n] er> defendguin: takes away execute permission
[09:49] <defendguin> ah
[09:49] <bur[n] er> hence the minus
[09:49] <bur[n] er> and the 'x' for execute
[09:49] <defendguin> ah ok
[09:49] <tortoise__> how can i change what services start at boot?
[09:49] <defendguin> im used to the numbers
[09:49] <riley> spiv: i ran hdparm and it says using_dma = on
[09:49] <bur[n] er> tortoise__: u can do what i just told defendguin, or you can use the gnome services tool
[09:50] <riley> spiv and mjg59, thanks, that did i!
[09:50] <riley> *it
[09:50] <defendguin> bur[n] er, i didnt know gnome had a service tool
[09:51] <mjg59> riley: Ok. What that did was enable DMA on your CD drive. It's switched off by default because it breaks on some systems.
[09:52] <riley> mjg59, ok, thanks for explaining, i was wondering what that did lol
[09:52] <dablitz> if I am having a driver issue with my video, how to I change that?
[09:53] <dablitz> i think i choose the wrong driver for my video card and cannot get x to run
[09:54] <akra> anyone recommend a good (visual) text editor with integrated ftp ? 
[09:54] <offray> Hi all
[09:54] <offray> I have just installed ubuntu
[09:55] <offray> pretty nice work
[09:55] <riley> Just wondering, when i change smb.conf, are the changes put into effect automatically or do i have to run a command to restart samba?
[09:55] <offray> specially regarding autodetection and automounting of removable devices and media
[09:55] <memer> mjg59: so sorry about way long delay in reply. had to attend to something for a bit.  but, yes, i mean the kdrive vesa server
[09:55] <offray> I'm wondering, what about the root password?
[09:56] <riley> offray, i think it defaults to the same as your user password
[09:56] <will> hi what should i have under options in fstab  to allow full read /write 
[09:56] <riley> because that works for me
[09:56] <offray> ok, thanks a lot
[09:56] <opi> re
[09:56] <opi> hi Riddell  :)
[09:56] <pitti> tseng: back
[09:56] <tseng> pitti: ok
[09:56] <dablitz> so my question is, where can i find the kernel on a fresh install, cuz its not in /usr/src/linux
[09:56] <will> i have this: /dev/hda1       /mnt/c          vfat    user,uid:1000,gid:100   0       0 i think its wrong!
[09:57] <pitti> tseng: damn, immediately after installation I need a whole lot of development packages
[09:57] <Riddell> hello opi 
[09:57] <akra> will: try adding ",rw" after the "gid:100"
[09:59] <will> akra: hi remeber me?
[09:59] <LinuxJones> dablitz, you mean the kernel source ?
[09:59] <will> akra: reinstalled ubuntu and cant remeber setting for fstab!
[09:59] <dablitz> yes
[09:59] <Keybuk> dablitz: the kernel source isn't part of the default install, you'd need to install the linux-source package
[09:59] <dablitz> linuxjones
[09:59] <memer> anybody with good guesses as to how i might get ubuntu to work with kdrive's xvesa??
[10:00] <Keybuk> linux-source-2.6.8.1 is current, I believe
[10:00] <LinuxJones> dablitz, it's not installed by defaule you have to install it,  apt-cache search linux-source to find the correct version your running
[10:00] <akra> will: did adding ",rw" work ?
[10:01] <memer> (anybody?)
[10:01] <will> nope
[10:01] <memer> rats
[10:02] <dablitz> ok found it, how do I edit it
[10:02] <will> its saying :mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hda1,
[10:02] <will>        or too many mounted file systems
[10:02] <Keybuk> edit it? to do what?
[10:02] <LinuxJones> dablitz, you want to compile a new kernel ?
[10:02] <dablitz> yes
[10:02] <akra> does /mnt/c exist ?
[10:02] <dablitz> linuxjones
[10:02] <akra> will: does /mnt/c exist ?
[10:03] <akra> will: and is /dev/hda1 definitely a FAT32 partition ?
[10:03] <will> okay its working now with this: /dev/hda1       /mnt/c          vfat    user,rw         0       0
[10:03] <Keybuk> dablitz: The package suggests the "kernel-package" package; that lets you build kernels and turn them into packages -- basically you make oldconfig, make menuconfig, fiddle, make-kpkg --initrd --revision custom.1 binary, dpkg -i ../*.deb; but read the documentation that comes with it for full insight
[10:03] <will> but its view only
[10:04] <Keybuk> though you'll probably find the stock linux kernel images have the driver/feature you need as a module that can be loaded
[10:04] <LinuxJones> dablitz, you want to read a good howto here is a good one >>http://www.desktop-linux.net/debkernel.htm (don't worry about the patch stuff)
[10:04] <akra> will: add ",umask=002" after the rw
[10:04] <offray> see later
[10:05] <RuffianSoldier> Hehehehohohooohahhahaha
[10:05] <will> akra: still view only
[10:05] <memer> any kdrive afficionados in tha house?
[10:06] <akra> will: hmm
[10:06] <will> should i reboot and see then?
[10:06] <akra> will: won't make any difference
[10:07] <will> oh, yeah its not windoze
[10:07] <akra> will: umount then a mount is all that's needed
[10:07] <will> akra: will try that
[10:11] <memer> (ahem. memer clears throat wishin he'd read IRC protocol beforehand). I was wondering if anyone knows how to set up ubuntu to work with kdrive's Xvesa client?
[10:11] <Iorek> ...I have NO idea (honest and useless answer)
[10:12] <memer> hey, it's much appreciated anyway... any other brave takers?
[10:14] <Iorek> look at that...just finished reading The Hand of Thrawn, and there's a Cbaoth inhere...
[10:15] <Iorek> by the way, anybodu know how you stop mounted drives drom appearing on the desktop? :)
[10:15] <memer> no idea (an honest, tho useless response ;-))
[10:15] <tseng> Iorek: app/nautilus/volumes_visible in gconf-editor
[10:16] <Iorek> tseng thanks ;)
[10:16] <Iorek> memer it's appreciated :P
[10:19] <wm_eddie> ubuntu++
[10:20] <wm_eddie> wvdial automatically detected my cellphone
[10:20] <tortoise__> x seems slow for me when moving and resizing windows, any other operation seems fine.  does anyone know the problem?
[10:22] <october> hmmm
[10:23] <october> I've noticed some oddness.... Fedora Core 1.0 installs fine, but I have to say: nofb    I can't get Fedora Core 2.0, nor Ubuntu installed on this laptop with X working properly.  [Dell Inspiron 7500] 
[10:23] <october> I have ubuntu installed here just fine now... but no X.
[10:23] <october> I tried: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[10:23] <memer> (ugh. sorry folks. got disconnected. did i miss anything? kdrive blabla?)
[10:24] <LinuxJones> october, what errors does X output ?
[10:24] <october> LinuxJones: how would I ascertain that information?
[10:25] <LinuxJones> october, you can look in /var/log/XFree86.0.log at the end
[10:25] <Iorek> memer: nope. We're still clueless
[10:25] <memer> ;-) k, thanks. i'll keep huntin around
[10:27] <october> LinuxJones: occy.net/tmp/X.log
[10:27] <LinuxJones> october, I don't know what that is ?
[10:28] <vrln> is there going to be a floppy-disk installer for ubuntu?
[10:28] <vrln> looks like there's just the CD @ the official ubuntu site
[10:28] <october> LinuxJones: heh, I just scp'ed my XFree86.0.log to my site.
[10:28] <october> wanted to know if you saw any errors that stood out.
[10:28] <LinuxJones> october, :P
[10:29] <Keybuk> vrln: f,k
[10:30] <tof_> can i install k3b with apt ?
[10:30] <Keybuk> vrln: floppies are kinda deprecated, for the kind of system you'd need to run Ubuntu properly you'd almost certainly have some other way of installing it
[10:30] <ashgan> hi
[10:31] <vrln> Keybuk: yeah I agree, but I was just asking because I know someone who's CD drive isn't detected for some odd reason (it works in the sarge installer)
[10:31] <Iorek> anybody have ANY idea why my USB stick doesn't mount automatically? (and it used to mount manually but not anymore...:P
[10:32] <Keybuk> vrln: really?  that's kinda odd, and worth investigating and fixing.
[10:33] <vrln> yep, I can ask him to come to this channel
[10:34] <Keybuk> I don't really know much about the installer, it's Kamion you want for that and I suspect he's off having dinner right now
[10:34] <jeld> hello all
[10:34] <LinuxJones> october, the only thing that stands out is >> ATI(0): Not using default mode "800x600" (exceeds panel dimensions) . Were you able to select your panel type while reconfiguring  X ??
[10:35] <akra> anyone know how to get php syntax highlighting working in gedit
[10:35] <Iorek> off having dinner! A true developer will shun things like food!
[10:36] <Keybuk> Iorek: Mark works us pretty hard, we don't get time off for death
[10:36] <Iorek> "you can die in your own free time"? ;)
[10:36] <october> no...
[10:36] <october> LinuxJones: it wouldn't allow me to select panel type. 
[10:36] <october> LinuxJones: which is odd... as I've done that before with Debian.
[10:37] <october> I wonder if there is some odd module loading that I should turn off.
[10:37] <october> I turned off dri
[10:38] <vrln> Keybuk: ok, thanks. I asked that guy to message Kamion sometime
[10:38] <mxpxpod> does anyone here know where I can get a replacement hard drive for my ibook g4?
[10:38] <LinuxJones> october, it used to display a setting that allowed you to select advanced to select the monitor type and refresh settings. Where did it fo ?
[10:39] <LinuxJones> er go
[10:39] <Iorek> I ate it
[10:39] <LinuxJones> mmmm
[10:39] <Iorek> ...that doesn't help, does it :P
[10:39] <october> LinuxJones: well... there is an advanced... but it asks for horizontal and vertical sync stuff... 
[10:39] <october> LinuxJones: there used to be something that said:  what laptop display do you have: or something.
[10:39] <LinuxJones> october, it doesn't give you an option to select a monitor type ?
[10:39] <PerdiX> akra, php highlighting should work in gedit, latest spec for gtksourceview is 9 months ols already...
[10:40] <october> LinuxJones: it does... but none of the values I pick are working
[10:40] <akra> perdiX: hmm... not on the list of choices in this gedit
[10:40] <LinuxJones> october, ya something about an lcd display
[10:40] <akra> perdiX: asp is there !
[10:40] <october> I can start Fedora Core 1.0 install and do:   linux resolution=1400x1050 nofb   and boot up to 1400x1050 just fine.
[10:40] <akra> perdix: oops: I lied :)
[10:40] <LinuxJones> october, start x and see what errors come up ?
[10:40] <PerdiX> akra, ^_^
[10:41] <akra> perdix: it's a .inc file ...
[10:41] <akra> so I need to tell it that a .inc file is really a .php file :)
[10:41] <LinuxJones> october, you have fb device set to load in your xf86config file
[10:42] <akra> perdix: any idea how to do that ?
[10:42] <fdr> hello again... I was wondering, besides the install CD is there also a ubuntulinux LiveCD available? thanks :)
[10:42] <PerdiX> akra, nope, still Emacs user (*sob*)
[10:42] <LinuxJones> october, I don't know if that could be causing the problem or not ??
[10:42] <akra> I like emacs - need to sort out php-mode on it!
[10:42] <LinuxJones> fdr, I think it is slated for later this year
[10:43] <october> LinuxJones: How do I know if I have framebuffer set to load?  and how can I disable it?
[10:43] <october> that's probably the problem
[10:43] <PerdiX> akra, I don't -- my .emacs is 5Megs already, and still growing ^^
[10:43] <akra> LOL
[10:43] <LinuxJones> october, edit your /etc/X11?Xfree86Config-4 file and see if it is getting loaded somewhere in there.
[10:43] <october> heh
[10:44] <october> E486: Pattern not found: framebuffer                          1,1           Top
[10:44] <LinuxJones> october, again I don't know if that is what is causing the problem. Try starting x from console and see what errors it spits out.
[10:44] <imka> should i grab ubuntu now or should i wait for the final release? any big changes expected?
[10:44] <akra> is xvncviewer the best option for vnc ?
[10:44] <defendguin> is there a gui for setting a samba share in ubuntu?
[10:45] <october> LinuxJones: thanks for trying to help.... I gotta run get some work done... ugh.  This has consumed too much of my time today. :(
[10:45] <Iorek> imka: the final release will have a tweaked Gnome, so it looks like Windows. XP-themed
[10:45] <october> LinuxJones: danke
[10:45] <Iorek> get the beta NOW
[10:45] <Iorek> before it's too late
[10:45] <akra> lorek: LOL
[10:45] <imka> Iorek i dont need that. anything else that is important?
[10:45] <tortoise__> how do i run the network setup?
[10:46] <defendguin> Iorek, i hope you joking lol
[10:46] <PerdiX> akra, I'd try tsclient
[10:46] <Iorek> No no, I'm serious. It'll even have aregistry
[10:46] <Iorek> and AciveX
[10:46] <memer> more basic Q about ubuntu: is it creating it's own repository of debian-compatible s/w or will it be making corrections back to the debian motherlode (does that make any sense?)
[10:46] <Iorek> +t
[10:46] <jensens> /usr/bin/editor symlinks to /etc/alternatives/editor which symlinks to /usr/bin/vim which doesnt exist, its called /usr/bin/vim.org 
[10:46] <jensens> bug or feature?
[10:46] <memer> (didn't quite underdstand the philosophy section)
[10:46] <fdr> LinuxJones : thanks for answering my question
[10:46] <akra> thanks Perdix! it's already installed and everything :)
[10:47] <Iorek> memer: depends...it's possible to add deb-packages to your sources list in synaptic. It's just not supported
[10:47] <LinuxJones> fdr,  ;)
[10:47] <Keybuk> memer: both
[10:47] <memer> ahh, so it IS it's own thing, then.
[10:47] <imka> no, seriously. is it worth waiting? cause im excited about buntu but i dont wanna wipe out fedora if therell bepossible problems
[10:47] <Iorek> memer it HAS it's own thing, which is guaranteed to work
[10:48] <Keybuk> memer: we have our own archive which is based on Debian unstable; every 6 months we take a snapshot of Debian and apply our own bug fixes and patches to it
[10:48] <Iorek> and then there's everything Debian has, which is a teensy bit risky :)
[10:48] <memer> ok, but it just uses the same apt-get  mechanism to get at it
[10:48] <Iorek> yep
[10:48] <Keybuk> but we also give those same bug fixes and patches back to Debian and upstream
[10:48] <Keybuk> (as we apply them, rather than just at releast time)
[10:48] <memer> okk (thinking)
[10:48] <Iorek> imka in my opinion, it's better. But that's just my opinion. Why don't you use them side by side for a while?
[10:48] <imka> so the OFFICIAL ubuntu repo contains the whole debian unstable repo snapshot + ubuntu stuff
[10:49] <Keybuk> Iorek: it's not just unsupported ... it really doesn't work very well
[10:49] <memer> sooo...would i have "ubuntu" if i just change my sources list to your servers (or wotever)
[10:49] <josejavier> hi, i just installed ubuntu( amd64) in a dual operon box, and i have continuous lockups, the machine is based on a tyan board, and the graphic card is an nvidia ti4200 that sometimes shows points in screen like having a bad memory. The pc works ok in 32 bit mode with kernel 2.6.8 in other distro
[10:49] <bur[n] er> memer: good luck with that ;)
[10:49] <bur[n] er> i tried donig that from debian sid to no avail
[10:49] <memer> burner: heyyy! wattayew mean?
[10:49] <[Clint] > Keybuk: are you well-versed in libtool module loading?
[10:49] <Iorek> Keybuk but there are more packages added every day right? :)
[10:50] <Keybuk> [Clint] : I'd hope so yeah, why? :p
[10:50] <bur[n] er> some packages worked, some didn't
[10:50] <[Clint] > Keybuk: I'm curious if replacing zsh's homebrew system with libtool would be less of a hack
[10:50] <memer> hmm..ok, but in principle, that's really it then, the sources i have listed in apt-get. just point em to ubuntu's?
[10:51] <defendguin> the open office spellcheck bug hasnt been fixed yet?
[10:51] <Keybuk> memer: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/sid_to_warty.html
[10:51] <bur[n] er> memer: in principle
[10:51] <bur[n] er> ubuntu has its own kernel that makes it different as well
[10:51] <Iorek> to ubuntu's, and the CD
[10:51] <bur[n] er> and i think some startup scripts are different
[10:51] <memer> keybuk: thanks
[10:51] <memer> burner: ok that simplifies it for me (simple brain ;-))
[10:51] <bur[n] er> i could be wrong
[10:51] <LinuxJones> defendguin, you can get spellchecking working
[10:51] <memer> ahh
[10:52] <LinuxJones> defendguin, gimme 1 sec
[10:52] <defendguin> tools -->  options -->?
[10:52] <Iorek> shout "CHECK MY SPELLING, YOU..."
[10:52] <Iorek> in the diskdrive
[10:53] <Iorek> to the rhythm of "Wannabe" by the Spice Girls
[10:53] <josejavier> any succefully install of ubuntu on amd64 ( in native mode) ?
[10:54] <LinuxJones> defendguin, start this and follow prompts >> /usr/lib/openoffice/share/dict/ooo/DicOOo.swx
[10:54] <Iorek> brbr
[10:54] <memer> keybuk: ok, thanks for this instruction set. did this work out ok for you?
[10:54] <[Clint] > Keybuk: i'll just email you and you can ignore me there
[10:54] <LinuxJones> defendguin, it worked for me
[10:54] <Keybuk> memer: yeah it worked for me
[10:54] <defendguin> :) thanks
[10:55] <Keybuk> [Clint] : heh, am mulling the zsh source
[10:55] <[Clint] > I was hoping that you were.
[10:55] <memer> keybuk: thanks (*memer rubbing hands*)
[10:55] <Keybuk> [Clint] : to be honest, this doesn't look much worse a hack than libltdl
[10:56] <[Clint] > which source are you looking at?
[10:56] <Keybuk> 4.2.0-14ubuntu1
[10:57] <[Clint] > ok; the one in sid has a patch applied which only links -lpcre to the pcre modules, -lcap to the cap module
[10:57] <[Clint] > this makes it a lot uglier
[10:57] <defendguin> LinuxJones, should i have done that as root?
[10:57] <Keybuk> you get those same problems with ltdl :(
[10:57] <[Clint] > damn
[10:57] <LinuxJones> defendguin, I can't remember I think I did it as regular user but I can't remember
[10:58] <[Clint] > thanks, back to the drawing board
[10:58] <Keybuk> basically they're using RTLD_GLOBAL which is one of the most evil things in the known universe
[11:00] <defendguin> RTLD_GLOBAL?
[11:00] <[Clint] > defendguin: man dlopen
[11:00] <pyramid> [Clint] , that libtool is hard for me to understand.
[11:00] <Keybuk> [Clint] : that's lacking the "THIS IS EVIL, DO NOT DO THIS, NO, REALLY, DON'T!" disclaimer
[11:01] <[Clint] > file a bug
[11:02] <Iorek> there
[11:02] <pyramid> [I tried reading some info on libtool when i was compiling it...but it is difficult for me to understand
[11:02] <[Clint] > you were compiling libtool?
[11:03] <pyramid> [well yes...i compile most stuff myself so i can read the README files and other stuff.
[11:03] <pyramid> but libtool is difficult to understand
[11:03] <pyramid> you know the stuff contained in the tarballs.
[11:03] <Keybuk> "Nobody understands how to write shared libraries properly, especially for more than one platform, so the Libtool developers took all the strange rules and twists for every platform and hid them in a multi-thousand line shell-script that nobody understands properly."
[11:04] <Iorek> sounds like my textbooks
[11:04] <clee> Keybuk: heh.
[11:05] <pyramid> so that is what it is all about and why it is so complicated
[11:05] <Keybuk> it's not really that complicated, it's just verbose because it has to deal with a lot of very different platforms
[11:05] <guptan> Is there any program to customize metacity themes, like colors and button position?
[11:05] <[Clint] > a lot of very broken platforms
[11:06] <jde> Hello.
[11:06] <jde> Ummm ... I'm having trouble backing up my music CD's with cdrecord.
[11:06] <Keybuk> guptan: there's a HOWTO - http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/metacity/metacity-themes.html
[11:07] <clee> jde: use sound-juicer! :)
[11:07] <jde> I've decode the files to wav and issued the command 'cdrecord -v -eject dev=/dev/hdb driveropts=burnfree minbuf=25 -dao *.wav', and all I get is alot of crappy sounds on my CD.
[11:07] <pyramid> jde, why do you want to listen to musicians that most of the time don't even bother getting expert credentials in the fields they want to vocalize.
[11:08] <clee> oh, wait. you said "Backing up" not "ripping"
[11:08] <clee> never mind
[11:08] <guptan> Keybuk, thanks
[11:08] <jde> pyramid, huh?
[11:09] <pyramid> jde, well for example what PhD's does acdc hold to qualify what they are talking about.
[11:09] <clee> pyramid: ... dude, wtf does that have to do with *anything*?
[11:09] <Iorek> LMAO
[11:09] <jde> pyramid, I don't listen to AC(thuderbolt)DC.
[11:09] <pyramid> clee, well would you follow the blind.
[11:09] <jde> Rather, I don't have any of their CD's.
[11:10] <clee> pyramid: sure, if there was free food involved
[11:10] <LinuxJones> heh
[11:10] <pyramid> clee, well remember Moses gave them free bread from heaven and Jesus said they all died...everyone of them.
[11:10] <Iorek> we strayed a bit from "how do I backup my cd"
[11:10] <meekj_> help, I just installed ubuntu on my Dell Inspiron 4100, and Gnome is frozen on startup.
[11:11] <Iorek> meekj: somehow, both Moses and Jesus are involved :)
[11:11] <clee> um, jde - did you pass '-audio' at all there?
[11:11] <guptan> Keybuk, that proves so hard to me, I just want to change color of industrial window border. Any help?
[11:11] <jde> clee, didn't help.
[11:11] <meekj_> I have deleted all related .gnome files in my home dir, nothing...
[11:11] <clee> jde: well, if you want the audio files to work at all, you need '-audio' in my experience
[11:11] <jde> For some reason k3b won't pickup my cdburner
[11:11] <clee> I've never used -dao with an audio one
[11:11] <oMega505> hey guys, anybody tried ubuntu on a Dell 8600 ??
[11:12] <pyramid> clee, my point is even free stuff may have a cost.
[11:12] <LinuxJones> meekj_, apt-get update && apt-get uprade
[11:12] <jde> All right clee, I'll give that another try.
[11:12] <Keybuk> guptan: ah, you don't even need to change that in Metacity ... it takes the colour from the GTK+ theme
[11:12] <jde> Sans the `-dao'.
[11:12] <clee> pyramid: bah, we all die anyway. I still fail to see why I should only listen to artists who have PhD's
[11:12] <guptan> Keybuk, u mean I can't change it?
[11:12] <LinuxJones> meekj_, god my typing :( apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[11:13] <Keybuk> guptan: what you want is a .gtkrc-2.0 file containing something like http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/gtkrc
[11:13] <clee> pyramid: I don't think that it's required that someone have a PhD for me to enjoy listening to their music
[11:13] <pyramid> clee, well not just PhD's but a PhD in every topic they want to express their opinion about.
[11:13] <clee> pyramid: dude. that's completely nonsensical.
[11:13] <Iorek> *enjoying this*
[11:13] <jde> oMega505, I've installed RedHat on my sisters Dell Inspiron.
[11:13] <clee> besides which, PhD's don't actually mean *shit* in the real world
[11:13] <soleblaze> can someone tell me how initrd is setup in grub? it's giving me kernel panics when i boot
[11:13] <Keybuk> guptan: fiddle with the bg[SELECTED]  colour to your heart's content (and change text to contrast it), when you're happy with it just kill gnome-settings-daemon (it'll respawn with the new setting)
[11:13] <pyramid> clee, it does seem to border on insanity doesn't it.
[11:13] <guptan> Keybuk, where can I get those files, how can I apply them
[11:13] <meekj_> LinuxJones: Thanks, I thought it did that during the install. But it turns out this is fetching a bunch of new packages.
[11:14] <Keybuk> guptan: which files?
[11:14] <jde> pyramid, I don't think anyone offers college courses on rocking out, or big bottomed girls.
[11:14] <guptan> those gtkrc files
[11:14] <clee> soleblaze: you do 'kernel /vmlinuz' with the appropriate 'root=' argument
[11:14] <Iorek> or bad ass strippas
[11:14] <pyramid> jde, actually they are teaching sex education in some colleges now.
[11:14] <clee> soleblaze: then you follow it with 'initrd /initrd.img'
[11:14] <clee> and then 'boot'
[11:14] <LinuxJones> meekj_, ya some folks have been having problems , Let's hope it fixes you up.
[11:14] <jde> pyramid, you can't major in it though.
[11:14] <Iorek> or "the winds of change"
[11:14] <|trey|> soleblaze: grub just loads /boot/initrd.img-<uname -r>
[11:14] <Keybuk> guptan: just "wget -O ~/.gtkrc-2.0 http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/gtkrc" and then edit ~/.gtkrc-2.0 to change the colour
[11:14] <Armitager> ny local Uni does a degree in surfing - thats a cool course
[11:15] <djuuss> how to have programs run at startup?
[11:15] <pyramid> jde, well it seems like many people want to major in it...given the numbers that flock to those classes.
[11:15] <guptan> Keybuk, then where shud I save this gtkrc file?
[11:15] <jde> djuuss, you can save session and all the programs will be there when you start up again.
[11:15] <Keybuk> it's a hex triplet, like HTML uses; the colour selector of any graphics program (like GIMP) will make them for you
[11:15] <Keybuk> guptan: ".gtkrc-2.0" in your home directory
[11:15] <|trey|> djuuss: update-rc.d
[11:15] <soleblaze> I have "initrd /zephyr/boot/initrd.img-2.6.8.1-3-386
[11:15] <jde> pyramid, I'm sure alot of people would, still ...
[11:15] <djuuss> that a command?
[11:16] <|trey|> djuuss: yeah
[11:16] <soleblaze> on it's own line, is that enough or do i need a kernel option?
[11:16] <jde> djuuss, are you talking about at boot, or at login?
[11:16] <pyramid> jde, and then there is Dr. Ruth with all her brilliant sexual advice.
[11:16] <djuuss> at login
[11:16] <memerman> will there be an appreciable delay in uploading pkg fixes back to sid? like, would warty have the goods for a good long while before being sent to warty?
[11:16] <LinuxJones> djuuss,  Computer >>Desktop Settings >> Sessions
[11:16] <Keybuk> memerman: patches were being sent to Debian before we even announced Ubuntu or Canonical
[11:16] <jde> djuuss, as in login into your window manager or into the command line?
[11:16] <djuuss> wm
[11:17] <vrln> any devs here? I found a typo http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu-traffic/ --> (produce --> produced) :)
[11:17] <djuuss> LinuxJones: thx thats what i was looking for :)
[11:17] <memerman> sweet.
[11:17] <LinuxJones> djuuss,  ;)
[11:17] <|trey|> djuuss: ahh, programs loading at login to gnome != loading at boot  ;)
[11:17] <jde> djuuss, you can do that in gnome just run whatever program you want to be there at login and log out and click save session.
[11:17] <MepisBelle> http://people.evilrealms.net/~pibby/view_photo.php?set_albumName=kde&id=Intuxicated_Freefall
[11:17] <soleblaze> I get "Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,255)" when I try to boot
[11:17] <jde> djuuss, also you can add stuff to your .xinitrc file if you're going to startx.
[11:17] <memerman> so then, there's not a huuuge reason to switch to ubuntu unless i have a thing for debian on gnome (which, i do, btw)?
[11:18] <djuuss> ^o) i dont wanna have to log out just to add a prog to startup
[11:18] <jde> soleblaze, think you need to get rid of the automounter in your kernel config.
[11:18] <Iorek> there's your reason right there :)
[11:18] <pyramid> clee, i can only tell you that here in Texico today on the news...the judges are forcing and establishment to remove the 10 commandments and replace it with something else.
[11:18] <clee> memerman: well, the ubuntu guys are sidestepping a lot of stupid shit involved in Debian's politics and just focusing on the releases and making a working distro
[11:18] <guptan> Keybuk, ok, now I have download ur gtkrc file. now what shud I do
[11:18] <soleblaze> jde: ok, i'll see if that works
[11:18] <djuuss> the computer->desktop settings->sessions fills my needs just (y)
[11:18] <Keybuk> guptan: edit it
[11:18] <clee> memerman: so... yeah, eventually, this stuff will make it back to Debian proper, but... it's in ubuntu *now*
[11:18] <soleblaze> just remove it and recompile the kernel?
[11:18] <guptan> Keybuk, for mean time I will stick to ur colors
[11:19] <Keybuk> memerman: regular six-monthly releases of the latest software, stabilised and bug-fixed
[11:19] <d5t> Will Ubuntu run on a pII 233 ?
[11:19] <jde> soleblaze, yes.
[11:19] <pyramid> clee, maybe they will put a book on sex education in its place.
[11:19] <djuuss> d5t: no
[11:19] <jde> soleblaze, don't forget to install the modules and kernel.
[11:19] <d5t> djempak: what's the min specs?
[11:19] <|trey|> d5t: sure... how well, who knows, but it will
[11:19] <memerman> clee: riiight. see, that's wot i was wondering about delays in sending over to sid and whot not
[11:19] <clee> pyramid: dude, I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say.
[11:19] <jde> d5t, yes.
[11:19] <soleblaze> jde: I won't. diskless booting is fun.
[11:19] <clee> memerman: it's not that there's going to be delays in sending stuff to sid. it's that the debian developers in general don't move very quickly, in my experience.
[11:19] <|trey|> djuuss: umm, yeah it will... thats i686, ubuntu supports i386
[11:19] <soleblaze> I've hear it running on a p2 233, but slowly
[11:19] <d5t> two "yes" one "no"
[11:19] <pyramid> clee, what i am saying is that look at what all the Americans flock too....
[11:20] <clee> pyramid: dude, you're stereotyping. That's complete bullshit.
[11:20] <jde> d5t, depends what you wanna run it may not run GNOME.
[11:20] <tbw> .
[11:20] <djuuss> |trey|: it'd run, but it'd run like thick shit through molasses
[11:20] <d5t> jde: ouch 
[11:20] <jde> d5t, you can always switch to lighter Window Managers.
[11:20] <|trey|> djuuss: so why did you say "no", he asked if it would run...
[11:20] <pyramid> clee, no you can see the sheer number of those who marry or otherwise want to become involved with sexual issues.
[11:20] <jde> d5t, FluxBox for instance.
[11:20] <memerman> keybuk: but if they're gonna do it basically real-time anyway (that is, upload to debian), then i don't need to sweat it.
[11:21] <d5t> well, I'll try it.
[11:21] <clee> pyramid: "all" the Americans don't agree on anything. Much less "flock to" anything.
[11:21] <djuuss> he asked if it 'd run. You said it wouldn't, but it might crawl
[11:21] <d5t> it has a 128mb of ram ;p
[11:21] <Iorek> Americans are specialists in disagreeing with EVERYONE
[11:21] <Iorek> in fact
[11:21] <|trey|> d5t: it might be painful, but it will run
[11:21] <pyramid> clee, true...not "all" but the numbers are staggering
[11:21] <Iorek> so are all the other humans :P
[11:21] <clee> Iorek: not to mention disagreeing amongst ourselves.
[11:21] <d5t> the PC has been sitting in my closet for a while
[11:21] <Keybuk> memerman: no, you misunderstand.  We don't upload things to Debian, we just offer the patches through the BTS.  The Debian maintainers are free to decide not to take the patches
[11:21] <d5t> so I should make use of it somehow
[11:21] <plovs> d5t: gnome might run on a p233, if you have enough memory or a big swap-file, but you can't actually do anything with it
[11:21] <pointwood> hmmm...looks like it didn't quite get my monitor right - I can't only run 1280x1024 in 60hz :/
[11:21] <clee> pyramid: Dude. I don't say "all arabians" or "all mexicans" or "all canadians" so I don't see how anyone can say "all americans"
[11:21] <djuuss> d5t: try Yoper with IceWM
[11:22] <Iorek> clee: turmoil on legs :)
[11:22] <pyramid> clee, instead of seeking spiritual rewards...they seek physical gratifications.
[11:22] <memerman> keybuk: oooooooooooohhhhh!! well, then that makes a hella difference
[11:22] <jde> d5t, you can use it as a server just strip alot the useless stuff.
[11:22] <pyramid> clee, that is true..i should not say "all".
[11:22] <d5t> jde: That's what it's going to be :)
[11:22] <pointwood> where do I change monitor specs?
[11:22] <memerman> bts?
[11:22] <jde> d5t, well there's no need to even install X then.
[11:22] <clee> memerman: Bug-tracking system
[11:22] <|trey|> d5t: not sure if I would be using a Desktop oriented distro as a server  :/
[11:22] <Iorek> pointwood: just a question, but what's your video hardware?
[11:23] <plovs> d5t: just use debian stable and security updates from cron then will run for years
[11:23] <memerman> gotcha (thinkin some more)
[11:23] <jde> d5t, 233 should be more than enough for a small server.
[11:23] <d5t> |trey|: For personal use.
[11:23] <djuuss> ahh a server
[11:23] <djuuss> try a livecd
[11:23] <pointwood> Iorek: Geforce ti4200
[11:23] <pyramid> clee,  i am just glad we have gnome-sword working.
[11:23] <mako> vrln: that's been fixed :)
[11:23] <|trey|> d5t: install Debian itself, and pick "install packages manually", only install what you plan on needing...
[11:23] <clee> pyramid: gnome-sword?
[11:23] <mako> crimsun: the typo
[11:23] <mako> ergh.. vrln: the typo
[11:23] <mako> crimsun: sorry, not for you
[11:23] <pyramid> clee, yes an excellent referencing tool.
[11:24] <pointwood> Iorek: and a Sony 19" monitor
[11:24] <|trey|> d5t: a 233 should not be used "for personal use", it barely qualifies as a valid server here  :)
[11:24] <Iorek> pointwood: nvidia?
[11:24] <pointwood> yes
[11:24] <Iorek> ah
[11:24] <vrln> :)
[11:24] <d5t> |trey|: well... I don't want to upgrade ;p
[11:24] <Iorek> you need to download and install the driver for that one
[11:24] <clee> |trey|: bah. a 233 is more server than any mere mortal should ever need.
[11:24] <djuuss> maybe get debian patato or sumn
[11:24] <Iorek> pointwood: hold on
[11:24] <pointwood> k, thx
[11:24] <jde> d5t, 233 is enough for a server.
[11:25] <tortoise__> how can i change the services that start at boot?
[11:25] <|trey|> clee: perhaps, my server is a 633  :/   that part wasn't my point though  :)
[11:25] <djuuss> clee: who said you were dealing with mere mortals?
[11:25] <clee> djuuss: heh.
[11:25] <pyramid> clee, gnome-sword is a very interesting project.
[11:25] <clee> |trey|: seriously though. I have a quad-PPro-200 at home and that thing is a monster. :)
[11:25] <LinuxJones> tortoise__, you can use update-rc.d to modify your runlevels
[11:25] <clee> the only reason I'll ever need more power is because that thing sucks juice like there's no tomorrow
[11:27] <|trey|> clee: hah, to me "personal use" envolves web browsing etc... these things are not something I would contemplate on the 233  :)
[11:27] <|trey|> clee: the 633 here is the slowest box in the house (if you don't count the routers), so yeah  :)
[11:28] <d5t> hmm what browser does ubuntu come with?
[11:28] <d5t> if any
[11:28] <|trey|> firefox
[11:28] <djuuss> my sister HAS to be the slowest box in this house
[11:28] <d5t> excellent
[11:28] <djuuss> did i say house? i meant country
[11:28] <|trey|> djuuss: hahah... mean  :)
[11:29] <djuuss> also has ... *shiver* epiphany *shrug*
[11:29] <Iorek> but not links
[11:29] <Iorek> I checked :p
[11:29] <djuuss> hint: apt-get install opera
[11:29] <jde> djuuss, epiphany doesn't come standard.
[11:29] <djuuss> it doesnt? 
[11:29] <djuuss> did i bring that horror upon myself?
[11:29] <Iorek> not as far as I know
[11:29] <jde> djuuss, no at least in my install it didn't.
[11:30] <Iorek> yes, yes you did.
[11:30] <|trey|> djuuss: epiphany is only in universe afaik
[11:30] <djuuss> :|
[11:30] <Iorek> you were ready for...
[11:30] <Iorek> an epiphany!
[11:30] <djuuss> lol
[11:30] <plovs> djuuss: firefox is standard on ubuntu
[11:30] <|trey|> epiphany makes me wanna kill people
[11:30] <djuuss> yeah i uncommented the universe repos
[11:30] <jde> Actually `apt-get install epiphany' installs the epiphany game.
[11:30] <djuuss> yeah
[11:30] <|trey|> jde: epiphany-browser
[11:30] <djuuss> its an added protection measure against the "browser"
[11:31] <jde> So you'd have specify epiphany-browser if you want that.
[11:31] <Iorek> so...what exactly IS wrong with epiphany? :P
[11:31] <jde> djuuss, I guess subconciously you really like epiphany. :P
[11:31] <djuuss> maybe
[11:31] <djuuss> maybe subconiously i really like my sister as well
[11:31] <plovs> Iorek: no adblock
[11:31] <Iorek> I switched from IE to firefox...
[11:32] <jde> My younger brothers like epiphany.
[11:32] <d5t> who hasn't ;p
[11:32] <Iorek> there were a LOT of reasons for that
[11:32] <d5t> besides all the mainstream people
[11:32] <jde> Over firefox, that is.
[11:32] <|trey|> Iorek: other then not being Firefox, and requiring another browser to run, not much
[11:32] <dom> Hi everyone, this is dom. Question: what version of debian is used?
[11:32] <djuuss> Iorek: the gui, the sourcecode, the name
[11:32] <djuuss> :D
[11:32] <Iorek> 1) to get rid of that stupid turning "E"
[11:32] <djuuss> other than not beeing either firefox or opera
[11:32] <vrln> dom: ubuntu is based on unstable
[11:32] <jde> dom, unstable.
[11:32] <djuuss> no
[11:32] <|trey|> djuuss: bah, I hate opera more then IE  :/
[11:32] <djuuss> its more complicated
[11:32] <dom> Thank you must be 3.042?
[11:33] <djuuss> |trey|: blasphemy!
[11:33] <dom> meant to say 3.0r2
[11:33] <Iorek> ubuntu is based on a stabilised unstable
[11:33] <|trey|> djuuss: bah, the renderer is a pos!
[11:33] <|trey|> at least sites look right in IE  :/
[11:33] <Iorek> no no, there's the turning "E"
[11:33] <djuuss> |trey|: true that, i'd skip to firefox forever if it gave *mouse gestures!!*
[11:34] <|trey|> Iorek: you can get rid of that in both cases...
[11:34] <Iorek> no site ever looks right when that nausea inducing E
[11:34] <Iorek> trey, yeah, install firefox? :P
[11:34] <dom> I have used almost every distro since redhat 6 and have found debian and based distros best of all.
[11:34] <jde> djuuss, there are extensions for that.
[11:34] <djuuss> :|
[11:34] <|trey|> djuuss: it does, as an extension
[11:34] <Iorek> jde that was what I was thinking
[11:34] <Iorek> defintely saw mouse gestures inthere
[11:34] <djuuss> ..apt-get install mouse-gestures-for-firefox
[11:34] <djuuss> ?
[11:34] <jde> djuuss, no.
[11:34] <djuuss> if only !
[11:35] <jde> djuuss, you'll have to download them by hand.
[11:35] <|trey|> djuuss: not everyone utilizes mouse gestures, kinda pointless having it bloat the main product...
[11:35] <plovs> djuuss: besides there is a plugin
[11:35] <jde> Adblock would be a nice default though.
[11:35] <djuuss> |trey|: true dat, but i do, if you don't want mousegestures then use firefox
[11:35] <|trey|> Opera = worse bloat then main mozilla
[11:35] <Armitager> is there a link somewhere for how to get X working at all with an radeon 9800 on ubuntu?
[11:35] <djuuss> now there your crossing a line
[11:35] <plovs> jde: and add bookmark here
[11:35] <|trey|> djuuss: *then don't install the extension
[11:36] <djuuss> opera is definitly faster then mozilla main
[11:36] <Iorek> http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/showlist.php?category=Mouse%20Gestures
[11:36] <Iorek> djuus
[11:36] <djuuss> thx!!!
[11:36] <|trey|> djuuss: Firefox lacks nothing, but doesn't come bloated to start
[11:36] <djuuss> apt-get remove opera
[11:36] <djuuss> i have the gestures!
[11:36] <djuuss> :P
[11:36] <|trey|> apt-get killitdead opera
[11:36] <Iorek> THAT is a Middlefinger Gesture
[11:36] <djuuss> apt-get gunitdown opera
[11:37] <plovs> djuuss: but firefox on a p500 *is* slowerthen opera on a p3.2
[11:37] <|trey|> djuuss: dpkg -P opera though, gets rid of config stuff, so its really gone  :)
[11:37] <dom> apt-get purge winxp
[11:37] <djuuss> ahh the tested-and-proven dpkg --napalm opera!
[11:37] <|trey|> dom: that doesn't work, you mean apt-get remove --purge winxp  :)
[11:37] <Iorek> apt-get girlfriend
[11:37] <djuuss> plovs: thats why i used opera on wind00ze
[11:37] <dom> you got it
[11:37] <jde> Iorek, you for got to install girlfriend.
[11:38] <djuuss> Iorek: didnt work, had too many dependancies
[11:38] <plovs> djuuss: in the bad old days
[11:38] <|trey|> djuuss: I ran it on a 633 with 128 ram, was fine  :/
[11:38] <djuuss> plovs: they keep me awake
[11:38] <djuuss> lol
[11:38] <djuuss> Iorek tried to apt-get girlfriend
[11:38] <|trey|> apt-get moo  :)
[11:39] <nilkram> hi there.
[11:39] <jde> Hello.
[11:39] <djuuss> it depended on not having networking support exept for AOL
[11:39] <nilkram> Question: is there some other place than /boot/menu.lst to add other OS'es to boot?
[11:39] <nilkram> my menu.lst get's overwritten now and then...
[11:39] <plovs> nilkram: no
[11:39] <akra> nilkram: keep a copy ?
[11:39] <djuuss> nilkram: don't overwrite it
[11:39] <joem> nilkram, how does it get overwritten?
[11:39] <jde> nilkram, you should back up your menu.lst before editing it.
[11:40] <|trey|> djuuss: blah... upgrade to friend-with-benifits, all the features of girlfriend, without all the bloat  :)
[11:40] <nilkram> good question how actually. I think it's overwritten by a new kernel package. maybe.
[11:40] <jde> http://zero-install.sourceforge.net/
[11:40] <joem> that only edits a section of it
[11:40] <nilkram> I meant /boot/grub/menu.lst b.t.w.
[11:40] <joem> don't add stuff into the debian automagic section
[11:40] <djuuss> |trey|: girlfriend without bloat? whats that? apt-get handjob?
[11:40] <jde> You can just get a girl that way without having to commit.
[11:41] <nilkram> joem: ah, is that it... thnx.
[11:41] <|trey|> djuuss: ahh, no, I already have that feature  :/
[11:41] <djuuss> you'd better not get it from the testing branch
[11:42] <djuuss> the point with apt-get fullblown-gf is the dependancies. 
[11:42] <djuuss> Hey Iorek what peer reset your connection?
[11:42] <Iorek> cool, apt-get girlfriend crashed everything
[11:43] <Iorek> probably too much too ask
[11:43] <djuuss> yeah
[11:43] <djuuss> depended on epiphany :P
[11:43] <Iorek> lol
[11:44] <djuuss> "not enough space on harddisk, cpu cycles, bandwith, swapspace, memory, screen colors, sound channels"
[11:45] <nilkram> ok. Another question. How can I install restricted modules on AMD64? When I try to pick any the packages (x86_64/K8) synaptic says the module depends on itself and cannot be installed...
[11:45] <Iorek> "I don't like young people, but if it was a cime to be sex-obsessed, tone-deaf and totally incomprehensible, we'd have to arrest the whole population of france!"
[11:45] <djuuss> have it not check for dependancies?
[11:45] <djuuss> fortune?
[11:46] <djuuss> hehe my brother did something neat
[11:46] <djuuss> he mounted /dev/null to /mnt/the-void
[11:46] <nilkram> not checking for depencies wasn't my first preferred choice on a new distrib I'm not used to... :-/
[11:46] <djuuss> well if the dependancie is the same package
[11:46] <djuuss> what choices do you have
[11:47] <djuuss> you already know all it depends on is the package itself
[11:47] <akra> is it possible to have an ntfs drive mounted, but not have an icon on the desktop ?
[11:47] <djuuss> so you have all other packages
[11:47] <|trey|> djuuss: drop it, its lost its humor  ;)
[11:47] <djuuss> drop what?
[11:47] <djuuss> the void thing?
[11:48] <djuuss> or you not having a gf?
[11:48] <djuuss> there's a great support group for people like you trey
[11:48] <djuuss> go to #ubuntu
[11:48] <djuuss> ;)
[11:48] <|trey|> akra: it shouldn't even be showing up on desktop... you put it in /etc/fstab right?
[11:49] <nilkram> djuuss: there's only one package in the properties depends list in synaptic. itself.
[11:49] <|trey|> djuuss: I have no probs in that department  ;)
[11:49] <djuuss> then its safe not to check for deps
[11:49] <jamescube> if i select the smp kernel in synaptic, will it add it as an option to grub and leave the regular kernel instact?
[11:49] <akra> trey: yep - in /etc/fstab
[11:49] <|trey|> akra: yeah, then I don't see why are you are getting an icon on the desktop...
[11:49] <djuuss> |trey|: i asked you a question. You didn't answer it
[11:49] <akra> trey: line is: /dev/hda2       /c              ntfs    ro,user,auto,umask=022  0       0
[11:50] <|trey|> djuuss: what you ask? 
[11:50] <djuuss> what lost its humor?
[11:50] <|trey|> akra: looks right, not sure why there is an icon on your desktop  :/
[11:51] <|trey|> djuuss: the gf thing  :/
[11:51] <djuuss> i dropped it, you brought it up again :P
[11:51] <akra> |trey|: hmm... thanks anyway :)
[11:51] <|trey|> I thought it was on the same subject, left for a sec, my mistake  :/
[11:51] <|trey|> akra: you're welcome...
[11:52] <djuuss> i was talking about my brothers /dev/null mounted and he using it as a trash compacter
[11:52] <imka> warty iso is at 66%
[11:52] <djuuss> yeah
[11:52] <|trey|> imka: yay  :)
[11:53] <djuuss> so make a script that moves whatever you inputted to the mountpoint
[11:53] <djuuss> call it "void"
[11:53] <|trey|> djuuss: no point  :/
[11:53] <djuuss> and echo "the data was lost forever..."
[11:54] <djuuss> true, no point, but its my brothers first "contribution" to our /usr/share/bin
[11:54] <|trey|> djuuss: most annoying noise in the world:  cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp
[11:54] <imka> so what is ubuntu exactly? a debian unstable snapshot with its own goodies?
[11:55] <djuuss> |trey|: thx!! i was looking for that command to output all of my hd to soundcard :P
[11:55] <djuuss> in my sacred quest for sublimal messaging
[11:55] <djuuss> ;)
[11:55] <|trey|> imka: you can say its kinda Fedora with Debians package management.
[11:55] <|trey|> imka: basically its debian aimed at desktop users, and done right.
[11:56] <imka> |trey| im using fedora with apt at the moment :)
[11:56] <|trey|> although Warty has warts at still  :/
[11:56] <imka> does it have a good hardware detection? i dont have any exotic hw.
[11:57] <imka> what are those warts?
[11:57] <|trey|> imka: yeah... it uses discover1 instead of kudzu though...
[11:57] <imka> what is discover1?
[11:57] <|trey|> imka: its not quite as "pretty" as fedora yet, and has bugs equivalent to test2 probably...
[11:58] <|trey|> imka: the devs are pretty fast to act if you report bugs though  :)
[11:58] <djuuss> fedora is crap
[11:58] <djuuss> good crap
[11:58] <|trey|> djuuss: not at all
[11:58] <djuuss> but still crap
[11:58] <|trey|> Its just not Debian  :)
[11:58] <djuuss> i'm not a debian zealot
[11:58] <djuuss> but fc2 is just *NOT* my cup of tea
[11:59] <djuuss> ubuntu is
[11:59] <djuuss> it also happens to be a debian-like distro
[11:59] <|trey|> djuuss: they stay on the bleading edge very well... there is a lot of innovation in that distro...
[11:59] <topyli> all systems are crap. some just suck less than others
[11:59] <plovs> and you *really* can't compare apt-get on debian or on fedora
[11:59] <djuuss> topyli: troll! wise troll, but troll