[12:00] <Se7h> hoe do i enable SMB support ?
[12:00] <plovs> Se7h: install samba
[12:00] <topyli> djuuss: naah. are you saying you've encountered a good system?
[12:00] <djuuss> i like apt4rpm, but it hase like 2% of the packages in the repos compared to deb apt
[12:00] <|trey|> Fedora and Ubuntu are currently tied for my fav distro on the desktop... Debian has been my primary choice for a server for about 2 years...
[12:00] <plovs> djuuss: did you like it or was it *good enough*
[12:00] <djuuss> topyli: i've encountered yoper on an amd64 box
[12:00] <topyli> hmm.
[12:01] <topyli> i bet it's linux. it must suck just a bit :)
[12:01] <djuuss> plovs: its better then nothing
[12:01] <|trey|> topyli: blah... thats borderline flame bait  :)
[12:01] <plovs> djuuss: right, but it's not etter then debian
[12:01] <imka> is discover1 as good as kudzu?
[12:01] <Se7h> plovs just that?
[12:02] <djuuss> topyli: yes, 1)yoper is suse based and has rpms 2)rpms->small apt repo
[12:02] <|trey|> imka: imo its better.. but its at least as good
[12:02] <topyli> don't take the bait, i'm joking of course :)
[12:02] <djuuss> but its true
[12:02] <plovs> Se7h: and in computer>system config> netfig configure workgroup
[12:02] <djuuss> small apt repo is what keeps me from sticking to yoper
[12:03] <plovs> i tried yoper, it sure was *fast*
[12:03] <|trey|> djuuss: yoper is a custom LFS distro, how is it based on SUSE?
[12:03] <imka> good. i dont have much stuff. cdrom+burner dvdrom, via onboard sound, realtek netcard, pctv tvcard
[12:03] <imka> etc.
[12:03] <djuuss> well at least the xwindow thing
[12:03] <plovs> imka: should all work
[12:03] <|trey|> imka: everything should be detected... even resolution etc is detected  :)
[12:03] <imka> plovs i think so too.
[12:04] <imka> brb. gotta massage my gf :)
[12:04] <djuuss> yoper is good cuz its faster then <insert whatever> and installs in under 10 minutes with kde and OOo and the works
[12:04] <|trey|> djuuss: X, X Window System - these are exceptable, I cringe whenever I see "xwindow" or "xwindows"
[12:05] <|trey|> djuuss: honestly haven't used it, it was a big craze when it first came out, but it never appealed to me  :/
[12:05] <djuuss> |trey|: then cringe, i'm not gonna write "X Window System" if xwindow ays it
[12:05] <Se7h> plovs ok, its working...now, how do gain permission to access the win network ?
[12:05] <Se7h> in fstab for ie
[12:05] <|trey|> djuuss: too hard to just state "X"?
[12:06] <plovs> Se7h: what kind of network, AD or just a windows-box?
[12:06] <djuuss> |trey|: i'm beeing forced to be a mathematician against my will. X is a give input 
[12:06] <Se7h> yeah, just winbox
[12:06] <plovs> Se7h: just make an open  share
[12:06] <djuuss> I can't type "X" without giving a range where X can exist :P
[12:07] <riley> how would i run a command when the system starts in ubuntu?  i think this has something to do with rc files, but i don't know what to edit
[12:07] <djuuss> someone told me that bout half an hour ago
[12:07] <|trey|> riley: update-rc.d  <-- type that
[12:07] <djuuss> riley:computer-->desktopsettins-->sessions
[12:07] <|trey|> djuuss: thats when gnome starts, not the system.
[12:07] <Se7h> plovs: You do not have the permissions necessary to view the contents of "Windows Network: sinner".
[12:08] <riley> |trey| and djuuss: thanks, i'll try those
[12:08] <djuuss> |trey|: ive got a feeling thats what he meant :P
[12:08] <plovs> Se7h: are you on a "secure" network?
[12:08] <djuuss> |trey|: cuz its just what i asked and this is what i was looking for
[12:08] <Se7h> realy dont know
[12:08] <|trey|> riley: update-rc.d is the boot process... what djuuss said is just what runs when gnome starts (also possible via just "save session" when you log out...
[12:08] <Se7h> but think not
[12:09] <plovs> Se7h: inside a firewall with no other users?
[12:09] <Se7h> its just the user permissions to access network folders..
[12:09] <|trey|> djuuss: he stated "rc" and "system starts"... this would lead me to believe he means boot process  ;)
[12:09] <plovs> Se7h: rightclick permissions just make it accessible to all
[12:10] <|trey|> Question: how would you edit ACL's from Nautilus?
[12:10] <djuuss> he stated rc as in "someone mentioned rc but i dont know wtf he was on about"
[12:10] <djuuss> i referred to login in to gnome as "boot"
[12:10] <plovs> |trey|: by putting open terminal here in scripts :)
[12:11] <|trey|> plovs: grrrr *cries*
[12:11] <djuuss> whaaaaa
[12:11] <djuuss> i'm browsing in epiphany right now!!!!
[12:11] <|trey|> djuuss: I'm sorry
[12:12] <Se7h> plovs cant...the user hasn't the permission to change it
[12:12] <djuuss> dont be
[12:12] <djuuss> gonna go to *bed*
[12:12] <djuuss> why?
[12:13] <djuuss> i'm off for rome in 5 hours
[12:13] <plovs> Se7h: switch to administrator
[12:13] <djuuss> taking my yoper laptop with me
[12:13] <Se7h> lol
[12:13] <Se7h> dam
[12:13] <Se7h> ur not helping that way
[12:13] <Se7h> what is the path to network ?
[12:14] <plovs> |trey|: after you gave password, you have ?15 minutes
[12:14] <riley> |trey|: so would i create a sh file, place it in init.d, and use update-rc.d?  i googled it but all of the links are confusing...
[12:14] <|trey|> plovs: is it possible to configure that someplace?
[12:15] <|trey|> riley: man update-rc.d  ... it should give an interface to just turn things on and off at boot if I gave ya the right command  :)
[12:15] <plovs> |trey|: man sudo says change it in /etc/sudoers
[12:15] <plovs> Se7h: what path to what network???
[12:15] <|trey|> plovs: heh, I coulda guessed that... I still haven't actually looked at that file  :(
[12:15] <Se7h> plovs in my case: smb://homenet
[12:16] <plovs> |trey|: i like it fine as it is
[12:16] <riley> |trey|: ok thanks
[12:16] <|trey|> plovs: heh... I just like things being predictable... would rather it just be for that session or something...
[12:16] <|trey|> riley: you're welcome  :)
[12:16] <plovs> Se7h: you can put a mount in /et/fstab with passwords etc
[12:17] <luis_> #ubuntu-es
[12:17] <|trey|> riley: to add stuff that isn't already there though, yeah, just create a sh script for it... Debian only utilizes rc2 by default though...
[12:17] <plovs> |trey|: man sudo/sudoers :) it's too long for me to read...
[12:18] <riley> |trey|: ok
[12:18] <|trey|> plovs: heh... but its so much easier if you read it and tell me the answer  8)
[12:18] <djuuss> *offtopic* is there a way to extract all sayings from fortune?
[12:18] <plovs> Se7h: i don't use windows share that often (haven't for months) sorry
[12:18] <|trey|> djuuss: umm, yeah, its in a file... damned if I know where though... dpkg -L fortune
[12:18] <djuuss> great
[12:18] <djuuss> thx
[12:19] <sivang> Has someone tried installing to a 32m low mem machines?
[12:19] <plovs> |trey|: hm, maybe ask djuuss, he sound like a nice guy ...
[12:19] <djuuss> sivang: yes, and failed miserably
[12:19] <MyKq3> when i m trying 2 aptget update i get lots of errors like "Err http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main Sources
[12:19] <MyKq3>   Connection failed
[12:19] <MyKq3> " like what should i do ...should i change the mirror address? 
[12:19] <|trey|> plovs: but your not?  :'(
[12:19] <djuuss> plovs: ask me what
[12:19] <plovs> sivang: gnome will work rather slow, maybe not worth it
[12:20] <plovs> djuuss: if you are willing to read the man-pages for sudo and fix |trey|'s problem :)
[12:20] <|trey|> sivang: X itself can take that much memory at times  :/
[12:20] <djuuss> i'd be willing to read the bible if it'd help me save |trey|!
[12:20] <djuuss> but whats his problem?:P
[12:20] <plovs> sivang: linux will work just fine, but not graphical
[12:20] <tseng> defendguin: whats up with your debs
[12:21] <plovs> djuuss: he doesn't like reading man-pages
[12:21] <sivang> djuuss : it's intended to be a router machine. However I havn't got past d-i. it enters an endless loop of "Enterting lowmem moade"
[12:21] <sivang> mode
[12:21] <|trey|> djuuss: read man sudo and sudoers and tell me if there is a way to make it ask only once per session  :)
[12:21] <sivang> and both NICs don't work although recognized.
[12:21] <djuuss> |trey|: easy! make a root account, allow it to login thru graphical thingy and log in there.. once per session! :D
[12:21] <sivang> |trey| : you can set up expirey time for it
[12:21] <|trey|> sivang: #debian-boot <-- see if they are any the wiser  :)
[12:22] <djuuss> sivang: there are router-livecd's for that
[12:22] <plovs> sivang: don't use ubuntu, use debian 
[12:22] <|trey|> sivang: I'm aware of that, just would rather it be more predictable... :)
[12:22] <djuuss> |trey|:unless thats not what your after
[12:22] <|trey|> djuuss: not at all  :(
[12:22] <tseng> defendguin: they seem to be corrupt
[12:22] <psi> is anyone else experiencing lots of firefox crashes? they seem to be related to links that open in a new window
[12:23] <sivang> |trey| : However I never wanted it to last more then 10 miutes ;-)
[12:23] <plovs> psi: no
[12:23] <|trey|> psi: firefox crashes here when I try to open a new java window  :/
[12:23] <|trey|> sivang: :)
[12:23] <psi> not java related here
[12:23] <djuuss> you can sudo -K every time after you sudo whatever
[12:23] <defendguin> tseng, hmmm not sure
[12:24] <djuuss> to have it ask for the password every time you sudo
[12:24] <|trey|> sivang: in #debian-boot, pay peticular notice to anything joeyh says, he's the d-i dev  :)
[12:24] <psi> it crashes *every* time i open some links
[12:24] <djuuss> which makes it more predictable
[12:24] <|trey|> psi: to open in a new window, its javascript related at least  ;)
[12:24] <|trey|> psi: right click > open in new tab  :)
[12:24] <cybrjackle|lappy> when you build kernels the "debian way" is it simply using: kernel_image ; kernel_headers ; kernel_source ??
[12:24] <|trey|> see if that does the same thing.
[12:25] <|trey|> cybrjackle|lappy: umm... make-kpkg kernel_image maybe  :/
[12:25] <tbw> trey: not necessarily... <a target="_blank"> will open stuff in new windows with no javascript involved
[12:25] <|trey|> haven't done it that way in a while though  :/
[12:25] <cybrjackle|lappy> right, but what about headers or source
[12:25] <djuuss> |trey|: fiddle about with something obscure called "timestamps"
[12:25] <cybrjackle|lappy> i know the kernel_image, but want to build the rest too
[12:25] <djuuss> i'm going to bed
[12:25] <|trey|> tbw: oh, my mistake then  :/
[12:26] <|trey|> djuuss: night
[12:26] <djuuss> tis 00:26 over here
[12:26] <djuuss> have to be on the bus to rome on 06:00
[12:26] <|trey|> 3:26 pm
[12:26] <plovs> 1:26 also off to bed
[12:26] <plovs> night
[12:26] <Python2121> hey guys i have a question, i have a dell d600 laptop
[12:26] <djuuss> rome beeing about 1100 miles from here
[12:26] <|trey|> night
[12:26] <psi> |trey|: hm, yes. this particular link seemed to use javascript:anewwindow()
[12:26] <cybrjackle|lappy> oh and modules
[12:26] <cybrjackle|lappy> modules_install maybe?
[12:27] <Python2121> and for some reason when i try to boot into gnome it wont work, but when i have my usb audigy nx plugged in, it boots into gnome, and the sound card doesn't work
[12:27] <|trey|> psi: ahh... I hate those... can't even open in new tab  :(
[12:27] <psi> no, i noticed that >_<
[12:27] <Python2121> anyone have any ideas?
[12:27] <|trey|> Novells site has lots of em...  :(
[12:27] <imka> is there anything i should pay special attention to during install? ive installed several distros already
[12:27] <psi> |trey|: regular mozilla handles it fine
[12:28] <|trey|> Python2121: I have pleanty, prolly not related to your prob though
[12:28] <Python2121> lol
[12:28] <|trey|> psi: weird
[12:28] <Python2121> all i get is that esound failed to load once i type my user and password into gdm
[12:28] <Python2121> and go to failsafe terminal and type in gnome-session
[12:29] <|trey|> Python2121: try 'apt-get install libesd-alsa0' and restart X
[12:29] <Python2121> ok thanks
[12:29] <Python2121> lemme boot into it
[12:30] <nothing23> newb question, autoconfig didn't set my video correctly, and now gdm loops when I try to drop to a shell, is there a way during boot to not load gdm
[12:31] <|trey|> nothing23: update-rc.d -- turn off gdm there...
[12:31] <nothing23> yeah, I can't get to a shell though, when it boots it goes straight to gdm
[12:31] <nothing23> i am used to just having linux load to a shell and doing startx
[12:32] <|trey|> nothing23: boot with 'failsafe' and do it...
[12:32] <nothing23> great, thanks!
[12:32] <|trey|> nothing23: thats a grub option, not param though... 
[12:32] <nothing23> oh yeah, btw, this is PPC
[12:33] <|trey|> failing that... init=1 (I think)
[12:33] <|trey|> nothing23: that should be irrelivant to what I am saying  ;)
[12:33] <|trey|> nothing23: I thought yaboot was the PPC bootloader for linux though?
[12:34] <nothing23> aight, well the only thing is it uses yabooy instead of grub
[12:34] <nothing23> yeah
[12:34] <nothing23> can I pass options in yaboot the same way as grub?
[12:34] <|trey|> Never used it... blah... you know how to boot to a diff runlevel? boot to rl1  :)
[12:35] <tseng> does anyone know if gnome-vfs is built with howl support?
[12:35] <nothing23> not sure, will poke around goodle, and hopefully not be back :)
[12:35] <|trey|> nothing23: ahh, but we're a good bunch  :)
[12:36] <Python2121> hey
[12:36] <Python2121> ok so i did the apt-get install alsa0 thingy
[12:37] <Python2121> and now im in gnome but it only works when i boot gnome from failsafe terminal
[12:38] <Python2121> any ideas?
[12:40] <|trey|> Python2121: why did you even have the sound server start with gnome? 
[12:40] <Python2121> i dont know
[12:40] <|trey|> esd is unneeded... apps use gstreamer
[12:40] <Python2121> how do i disable esd
[12:40] <randomnick> hello
[12:40] <|trey|> Python2121: Computer > Desk. Pref. > Sound
[12:41] <|trey|> Python2121: you sure you didn't turn it on?
[12:41] <Python2121> yeah this is a brand new install
[12:41] <Salem> I can't seem to install ubuntu on my old IBM Thinkpad
[12:41] <Python2121> but enable sound server startup is checked
[12:41] <Salem> dies on the base install
[12:41] <|trey|> Python2121: bah, then forget that... guess it is supposed to be working...
[12:41] <Python2121> should i turn it off though?
[12:41] <Salem> it says:
[12:42] <Salem> python depends on python2.3
[12:42] <|trey|> Python2121: never had issues after I installed libesd-alsa0  :/
[12:42] <Salem> but python2.3 is not configured
[12:42] <jl> Salem, how old is old?
[12:42] <Salem> well, it's got a celeron 400Mhz
[12:42] <jl> Salem, my thinkpad t22 works great
[12:42] <Python2121> hmm
[12:42] <|trey|> Salem: dpkg-reconfigure python2.3
[12:42] <Python2121> maybe i shoudl restart
[12:42] <Salem> and 4Gigs of space
[12:42] <nothing23> well, you can send kernel parameters with 'append=' but both failsafe and init=1 aren't working, are there any keystrokes to drop out of gdm?
[12:42] <Salem> |trey|, I'll try that
[12:43] <|trey|> nothing23: ctrl alt f1
[12:43] <tseng> jdub: ping
[12:43] <jl> well.... make sure the bios is totally up to date forst. it helps in my linux experience with ibm laptops
[12:43] <Salem> says: python2.3 is not fully instaled
[12:43] <tseng> jdub: the howl package doesnt seem to install nifd
[12:43] <Salem> installed
[12:43] <Salem> I don't think it's a BIOS problem
[12:44] <|trey|> Salem: apt-get install --reinstall python2.3
[12:44] <Salem> looks like a dependency problem
[12:44] <Salem> l
[12:44] <Salem> k
[12:44] <Salem> apt-get: not found
[12:44] <Salem> :(
[12:44] <randomnick> Hi, I have a question for you guys. I'm from Portugal and I would like to know in what way could I contribute in translations and such issues...
[12:44] <Salem> Makes sense, as the base-install failed
[12:45] <imka> lets install ubuntu :)
[12:45] <|trey|> randomnick: doesn't appear any devs are active right now  :(
[12:46] <Salem> Well... I guess I'll try it again when ubuntu's a bit more mature
[12:46] <Salem> this seems like a boneheaded error
[12:46] <|trey|> Salem: its pleanty capable today, with good media...
[12:46] <Salem> I saw the screenshots, I like the premise
[12:47] <|trey|> Salem: 3 installs here... all ok..
[12:47] <Salem> :( I don't get it
[12:47] <Salem> Are you using 4.3
[12:47] <Salem> ?
[12:47] <|trey|> X? yeah
[12:48] <pyramid> i wonder what the AirForce is doing getting involved with antimatter for mass destruction weapons.
[12:49] <Salem> Seeing as how I can't even make it past a base install, I'll file a bug report and move on to another distro
[12:49] <Salem> Looks like my streak of unsuccessful debian installs is unbroken
[12:49] <Salem> Debian hates me for some reason
[12:49] <pyramid> seems to me that antimatter is a very volatile substance to stockpile for achieving mass destruction
[12:53] <nothing23> aight, I used a gentoo boot cd to get access to the filesystem, what files in /etc to I need to edit to not load gdm
[12:55] <LinuxJones> nothing23, remove the link in /etc/rc2.d that points to gdm
[12:55] <nothing23> cool, thanks LinuxJones 
[12:55] <LinuxJones> nothing23, ;)
[12:55] <jgeorgeson> if there are two services in a given runlevel with the same start priority, how is it determined which starts first?
[12:57] <mwilson> jgeorgeson: I belive it's lexicographical.
[12:58] <jgeorgeson> mwilson, hm, i have a laptop that typically only has a pcmcia nic, and i have some stunnel tunnels setup. when i booted, there were no tunnels, and no log errors, so I assumed that stunnel4 started before pcmcia
[12:59] <mwilson> Depends on what starts the NIC up, I suppose.  Most cardbus NICs are controlled by hotplug, not pcmcia-cs.
[12:59] <jgeorgeson> mwilson, hotplug still comes before stunnel4 lexicographically, though
[12:59] <pyramid> i can't imagine why the AirForce wants to achieve mass destruction with antimatter.
[01:00] <mwilson> I wouldn't know if Ubuntu's broken that as well, though.  I just know how Debian does it.
[01:00] <jgeorgeson> heh
[01:01] <pyramid> well i suppose it is because non-believers are in charge of everything and they don't respect the sanctity of life.
[01:01] <mwilson> jgeorgeson: Doesn't mean that the NIC comes up when hotplug loads, either, only that hotplug controls the loading of it.
[01:01] <mwilson> jgeorgeson: the networking initscript is what would matter, I suppose.
[01:02] <mwilson> i.e. hotplug is going to control support for the NIC, but that doesn't mean the interface is up or down.
[01:03] <jgeorgeson> well, whatever the reason, stunnel4 wasn't running when the laptop finished booting, but my interface was up and running, and /var/log/daemon.log had no stunnel errors to explain why it wasn't up
[01:03] <mwilson> Like I said, don't take what I say for gospel about how Ubuntu does things... I've installed it a grand total of once, just to see if it was worth bothering with, and now I'm hanging out.
[01:04] <Se7h> hmmm
[01:04] <jgeorgeson> mwilson, yeah, i was just looking for general pointers
[01:04] <Se7h> i changed the workgroup
[01:04] <jsubl2> mwilson, so what do you think of ubuntu so far
[01:04] <Se7h> but it remains the same
[01:04] <Se7h> does it need a logout ?
[01:04] <pyramid> i can't understand all this preoccupation with antimatter...it takes so much energy to create so little of it.
[01:05] <Serenity^> ok. I actually took down my superbly tuned arch install to play with this ubuntu thing, I'll reserve comment till a few days useage
[01:05] <mwilson> jsubl2: Don't see the point, myself... I find many of Gnome 2.8's design decisions highly annoying, and there's really no other reason to bother with it.
[01:05] <Serenity^> xfce4 :)
[01:06] <jsubl2> mwilson, yeah i can see that  if you are not a gnome fan
[01:06] <pyramid> mwilson, are you referring to the two rows of menus that waste valuable desktop real estate.
[01:06] <mwilson> Gnome's hypocrisy gets annoying, and 2.8 throws it in your face.
[01:07] <joem> mwilson, whats that?
[01:08] <pyramid> mwilson, i have to admit i don't know what to do myself with the extra taskbar or whatever it is...the one at the bottom is enough.
[01:08] <mwilson> As a technical achievement, it's fine, but it's not something I'd ever give to a user.
[01:08] <dieman> heh
[01:08] <dieman> so, like, how many users do you deal with?
[01:08] <tseng> holy crap, its mwilson 
[01:08] <mwilson> more than a few, less than a lot
[01:08] <tseng> the ghost of christmas cranky
[01:09] <jsubl2> tseng, exactly what i thought
[01:09] <LinuxJones> lol
[01:09] <cef> tseng: tsk tsk
[01:09] <dieman> ok, as long as its more than you plus one. :)
[01:09] <dieman> fie would be fine
[01:09] <dieman> five
[01:09] <pyramid> mwilson, but anyway it does seem quite usable.
[01:09] <dieman> thats all you really need to know if its decent enough or not.
[01:09] <tseng> jsubl2: youre familiar with his work also?
[01:09] <jsubl2> tseng, yes
[01:10] <tseng> :P
[01:10] <mwilson> tseng: I have opinions.  There's something wrong with that?  I didn't offer them here, they were solicited.
[01:10] <cef> I deal with a lot of users.. they're all dumb, particularly as a collective
[01:10] <tseng> mwilson: openbox is in universe btw
[01:11] <mwilson> tseng: So?
[01:11] <tseng> just thought you might like to know
[01:11] <tseng> i cant stand metacity.
[01:11] <mwilson> If I want openbox, I know how to build it myself.
[01:12] <mwilson> Ubuntu isn't something I'll use, so it's not like I have any great reason to replace metacity.
[01:13] <cef> mwilson: one thing that tends to get swept under the carpet is the number of bugs that've been fixed, both in ubuntu and back in debian.. that at least is a worthy goal
[01:14] <mwilson> cef: I find amazing the things Gnome 2.8 wants to let users do.
[01:15] <jsubl2> mwilson, for example
[01:15] <cef> mwilson: but I'm interested in the reasoning.. the 'why's.. specifics do help, not every last thing though
[01:15] <mwilson> cef: Especially in light of their supposed Joe Sixpack target audience.
[01:15] <cef> mwilson: you mean the whole sudo instead of root approach?
[01:15] <jdub> mwilson: note that the target audience is "everyone".
[01:16] <jdub> cef: sounds like he's talking about gnome, not ubuntu.
[01:16] <cef> heya jdub
[01:16] <mwilson> cef: No, not at all.  I have no problem with Joe Sixpack not knowing the root password for his own box.
[01:16] <pyramid> mwilson, does gnome let you turn the extra taskbar off.
[01:16] <tseng> yay jdub returns.
[01:16] <pyramid> mwilson, and get it off your display
[01:16] <cef> jdub: so where are you? have you hit victoria yet?
[01:16] <mwilson> cef: All he's going to do with it is be destructive.
[01:16] <jdub> cef: flying down this afternoon
[01:16] <jgeorgeson> pyramid, what is it you can't turn off?
[01:17] <cef> jdub: cool.. want to speak first, or later?
[01:17] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, well this gnome seems to have two taskbars....and that really takes up a lot of valuable desktop real estate.
[01:17] <tseng> pyramid: move the stuff you want to the top and remove one then
[01:17] <joem> right click delete panel?
[01:17] <mwilson> cef: Things like allowing users to decide whether desktops get shared or not.  Users don't get to decide whether boxen export things.
[01:17] <Capri> jdub: I've sent you a mail about the translation work. Did you get it?
[01:17] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, is there any way to keep the one on the bottom but eliminate the other that seems to only show what programs are running.
[01:17] <jdub> cef: whichever gives me enough time for talk+questions :)
[01:18] <jdub> Capri: yes, thanks
[01:18] <jgeorgeson> pyramid, you should just be able to righ-click and select Delete this panel
[01:18] <cef> jdub: heh.. ok.. well of course if the other speaker is late, that throws it out the window.. but I'll see what I can do
[01:18] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, ok they refer to it officially as a panel
[01:18] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, so i could just delete it.
[01:18] <jgeorgeson> you can move applets and launchers between panels
[01:18] <jgeorgeson> pyramid, yes
[01:18] <mwilson> cef: Then you have their stated "What, not How" paradigm, and yet Joe Sixpack is handed HAL Device Manager.
[01:19] <jdub> mwilson: that's not a gnome app.
[01:19] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, i don't see any need to have it showing me what programs are running..i could get that info with top
[01:19] <joem> hal device manager is not installed by default as of latest hal release
[01:19] <jdub> mwilson: it's provided (by ubuntu) as a handy tool.
[01:19] <joem> it is a seperate package
[01:20] <pyramid> but the only thing is that there are the 4window desktop buttons on the panel..can i move them to the bottom panel..before i delete the other one.
[01:20] <jdub> pyramid: middle drag it away
[01:21] <jgeorgeson> pyramid, yeah, right-click on whatever applet you want to move, and it should have a menu entry to move
[01:21] <jdub> or you can re-add it
[01:21] <pyramid> jdub, middle drag doesn't seem to do anything here.
[01:21] <joem> you have to unlock the applet first
[01:21] <cef> mwilson: btw: I see all this as valuable input.. wether ubuntu is wrong or not.. I'm not sure.. but I must admit sometimes it's hard to accept that you've made a wrong decision, and even harder to fix it
[01:21] <jgeorgeson> pyramid, ome applets are locked, so you might have to unlock them to get them in the right arranement (again, just right-click)
[01:21] <mwilson> cef: Gnomies are never wrong.  Just ask them.
[01:22] <jdub> mwilson: raise some gnome issues, and i'll give you answers.
[01:22] <cef> mwilson: but as I suspected, it's more the way ubuntu itself works, not gnome per se,
[01:22] <mwilson> You're going to tell me that desktop sharing is an Ubuntu issue, not a Gnome one?
[01:22] <jdub> nup, vino is now included in the gnome desktop release
[01:23] <allybally> hi i am a debian user, considering moving to ubuntu - can anyone tell me whether Ubuntu is using X.org yet or if not, when they (if ever) will move over to it. TIA
[01:23] <jdub> allybally: not yet, next release.
[01:23] <jdub> allybally: see the faq for more
[01:23] <mwilson> Users don't get to make those sorts of calls.
[01:23] <joem> sysadmins can decide to disable it or not
[01:23] <jgeorgeson> allybally, next release should use x.org
[01:23] <joem> average desktop users should be able to share if they want
[01:24] <jdub> mwilson: you'll have to describe what you mean.
[01:24] <LinuxJones> mwilson, what are you talking about ?
[01:24] <pyramid> hey what do you know...the windows moved to the bottom panel.
[01:24] <cef> mwilson: not per se, but it's global setting afaik is enabled by default in ubuntu.,.. not sure if that's the upstream default
[01:24] <pyramid> now i can delete that extra panel
[01:24] <mwilson> It seems rather simple... Joe Sixpack doesn't get to decide what a machine exports.
[01:24] <allybally> jdub: thanks, i see from the website that ubuntu is not the final release yet. Is the first proper release of Ubuntu due to be some time this month?
[01:24] <joem> mwilson, why not?
[01:24] <jdub> mwilson: it's disabled by default, and the user has full control via the configuration dialogue.
[01:24] <jgeorgeson> mwilson, he does when it's his personal machine
[01:25] <joem> who decides it then,,
[01:25] <pyramid> yes it is finally gone...that nuisance...
[01:25] <Mithrandir> allybally: yes.
[01:25] <jdub> allybally: 20th this month
[01:25] <nasdaq4088> 	
[01:25] <mwilson> Yes, the *user* has control, not the admin.
[01:25] <allybally> is the current preview release of ubuntu fully upgradeable to the final release via apt-get?
[01:25] <nasdaq4088> *** Now talking in #ubuntu
[01:25] <nasdaq4088> *** Topic is 'FAQ: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/ | Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ | Lists: http://lists.ubuntu.com/ | Bugs: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/ | Just Works: http://spamusement.com/view.php?id=81'
[01:25] <nasdaq4088> *** Set by Se7h on Sat Oct 02 08:28:21
[01:25] <nasdaq4088> *** tvon has quit IRC ("Leaving")
 I modified modules to hopefully install the 3c515 module so I can finish the install
 hi everyone
[01:25] <jdub> mwilson: the admin also has full control via gconf.
 hi
 LinuxJones: hi there
[01:25] <nasdaq4088> *** zenwhen has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
 hey guys..where is 'gmake'...its not listed even at debians site but I  need it for one of my projects..???
 anyone else using thunderbird on ubuntu ?
[01:25] <pyramid> i am going to reboot the computer and make sure that extra panel is gone forever.
 neighborlee: that's what non-GNU/Linux people call 'make'
 gmake == GNU make on systems where there's a different proprietary make
 ohhhhhhh
[01:25] <mwilson> Now, if there's a way to stop him, other than iptables, then that's different.
[01:25] <jdub> mwilson: those settings can be locked down so the user can't change them.
[01:25] <nasdaq4088> sorry i'm just trying something in irc
[01:26] <LinuxJones> nasdaq4088, spammer :D
[01:26] <jdub> mwilson: no, it can all be done at the gnome level.
[01:26] <Mithrandir> allybally: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fReleaseSchedule and http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fReleaseSchedule might be of interest to you.
[01:26] <cef> mwilson: I'm guessing that you'd probably like to see something where there are security zones that users can be given access to only a selected subset of superuser tools, ie: the ones that make sense, for larger rollouts (eg: corporate desktops)?
[01:27] <jgeorgeson> if the command `smbclient -L machine` works, why would browsing the same machine in nautilus via smb://machine tell me i don't have permission?
[01:27] <allybally> is the current preview release of ubuntu fully upgradeable to the final release via apt-get?
[01:27] <mwilson> cef: Not superuser tools, no.  Users don't get those sorts of things.
[01:27] <Mithrandir> allybally: yes
[01:27] <jdub> allybally: yes, that's also answered in the faq. :)
[01:27] <Mithrandir> allybally: and to hoary, and to grumpy and perky.
[01:27] <mwilson> allybally: Even *I've* read the FAQ.
[01:28] <allybally> many thanks jdub etc, I must read the FAQ closer. I have read it (a bit) honest!
[01:28] <mwilson> Although apparently I missed something, if this sort of thing is addressed.
[01:28] <jdub> mwilson: so where's the problem with vino?
[01:28] <jdub> (apart from pulling 100% cpu on an X server without DAMAGE.)
[01:29] <cef> argh.. I gotta go.. I really should be at work.. *grin*
[01:29] <mwilson> I don't know where the problem is with it, that's the point.  Users don't get to make calls about what a machine exports.  I can't make it any plainer than that.  What's next, giving them control of NFS exports?  That's silly, but just as valid.
[01:29] <meekj> Does anyone know the file in Ubuntu to define what modules are loaded at boot?
[01:30] <jdub> mwilson: it's fully configurable by the user and the admin. it can be completely locked down.
[01:30] <jdub> meekj: some in /etc/modules, but most are autodetected
[01:30] <cef> jdub: cya tonight
[01:30] <jdub> later
[01:31] <jgeorgeson> anyone know what's up with rhythmbox not showing titles for mp3 streams?
[01:31] <meekj> Well, the installer loaded asus_acpi on my Dell. And this make the system freeze at times.
[01:31] <mwilson> Anyway, I didn't volunteer my opinions, I was asked.
[01:32] <Mithrandir> meekj: add it to /etc/hotplug/blacklist, then
[01:32] <meekj> At the top of /etc/modules is says to not mod by hand.
[01:32] <LinuxJones> mwilson, thanks for those btw
[01:32] <meekj> ok, thanks.
[01:32] <jdub> mwilson: sure, and they're being answered. some of the things you don't like might not be correct.
[01:32] <allybally> i'm getting a new AMD64 Athlon. Should I use the AMD64 version of Ubuntu or should I just use a 32bit version? I ask because I have heard that a few programs don't yet work on the 64-bit version.
[01:32] <Mithrandir> allybally: oh, which ones?
[01:33] <allybally> Mithrandir: i read in a magazine, but it was referring to Suse and RH distros, just wondered if it affected ubuntu
[01:33] <psr> Hi, I've been checking out Ubuntu, great work!  I have a couple of problems with it though.  First is that the "Configure" menu option in synaptic doesn't seem to work, and stops dpkg-reconfigure from working.  Is this a known bug?
[01:34] <Mithrandir> allybally: I think we have everything working fine -- the amd64 version runs fine on my home desktop, at least.
[01:34] <Mithrandir> allybally: and if you find amd64 bugs, I really want to fix them. :)
[01:35] <mwilson> I wish I could remember where that dialog box mistake was, I'll have to look for it again.
[01:35] <allybally> cheers Mithrandir, I've just clicked to download the 64bit version! - Are you the person to report these issues to then?
[01:35] <mwilson> I wanted to tell someone, and forgot to write it down.
[01:35] <Mithrandir> allybally: use bugzilla, but yes, I'm working on amd64.
[01:35] <allybally> Mithrandir: cool ;) 
[01:36] <allybally> Mithrandir: I know this is an odd question, but can you name any other non-live (ie full) distros that are Debian based?
[01:36] <mwilson> It was one of those things where the text says "press OK", but there isn't an OK, only an Accept.
[01:36] <mwilson> allybally: Xandros.
[01:37] <Mithrandir> allybally: skolelinux, xandros, libranet, lindows?
[01:37] <allybally> hmm, don't like Xandros - anyone else have any feelings for it?
[01:37] <steved> allybally: UserLinux
[01:37] <Mithrandir> allybally: also, some speciality distros, like gibraltar are debian based.
[01:38] <allybally> I am really wanting to get my distro choice just right for my new system, and I've only heard great things about ubuntu, but would anyone make any reccomendations over these other distros over Ubuntu?
[01:39] <pyramid> hey what do you know...i rebooted and the extra gnome panel is gone forever...that nuisance...there was no place to put it without interfering in many applications...but it is gone now.
[01:40] <pyramid> hmm ..strange my text is not showing up fully
[01:40] <jgeorgeson> pyramid, i've never understood having two panels like that either
[01:40] <pyramid> well that time it did.
[01:40] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, yes i know...there was no place you could put it without interfering with many many applications
[01:40] <Mithrandir> allybally: I think you ask that question in the wron channel. ;)
[01:41] <Mithrandir> wrong, even.
[01:41] <pyramid> but it is gone now...and i salvages the 4 windows buttons on the bottom taskbar.
[01:41] <smo> I still prefer debian proper for servers .. I think that's about as unbiased as you're gonna find in here   lol
[01:41] <WW_> allybally: Don't overanalyze... there is no perfect distro.  Give /home its own partition, pick a distro (ubuntu seems pretty good), and go for it.
[01:41] <jgeorgeson> allybally, ubuntu and userlinux are the only debian-based, non-live-cd, distros which are packaged around gnome. the rest are kde
[01:42] <WW_> jgeorgeson: I wouldn't say Libranet is packaged around kde.
[01:42] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, well i have real problems with kde here...krita is not finished and konq3.3 isn't worth a flip on the internet.
[01:42] <jgeorgeson> WW_, does the defalut install give you a gnome desktop?
[01:42] <smo> I'm not sure Progeny is either  (altho I don't recall wether it gives any DE any real bias)
[01:42] <jgeorgeson> smo, is progeny still putting out a distro?
[01:43] <jdub> the latest progeny betas ship gnome
[01:43] <WW_> jgeorgeson: The default is IceWM with nautilus for desktop icons.
[01:43] <tseng> jdub: see my ? about howl?
[01:43] <jdub> tseng: nup
[01:43] <jgeorgeson> WW_, neat, thanks for the correction
[01:43] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, i like kde..but it doesn't work for me since i put in 3.3
[01:43] <tseng> jdub: it doesnt appear to install nifd
[01:43] <smo> jgeorgeson: There's alphas of a progeny debian 2 .. it's more a testbed for their componentised linux tho, rather than a targetted distro
[01:43] <LinuxJones> Progeny ported Anaconda Installer but I haven't tried it
[01:44] <pyramid> jgeorgeson, so i am happy with gnome as a backup
[01:44] <jdub> tseng: yeah, i skipped some of the bong bits
[01:44] <jgeorgeson> progeny is based on stable, yes?
[01:44] <tseng> heh
[01:44] <psr> My other problem is that the default settings for the X configuration aren't great for my graphics card.
[01:44] <jdub> tseng: i'll include them later if there's some requirement
[01:44] <jdub> tseng: atm, other tools do a better job
[01:44] <jdub> jgeorgeson: sarge
[01:44] <tseng> jdub: people are telling me it needs to be running for this epittance, so i installed it
[01:45] <jgeorgeson> cool, well, i'm out
[01:45] <pyramid> gnome seems to work for me ...for what i have checked anyway...but i wish gtoaster had a verify option.
[01:45] <psr> I use an old s3 virge, which doesn't have the bandwidth for High resolutions at high colour depths in XFree86.  Theres a thread about the problem here: http://www.mail-archive.com/xfree86@xfree86.org/msg11195.html
[01:45] <jdub> tseng: it should only require mdnsresponder, unless it only works over local link addresses (which would also be entirely bong)
[01:45] <tseng> hm ok
[01:46] <tseng> i will try w/o
[01:46] <tseng> seems to be still working.
[01:47] <jdub> yeah, mdnsresponder is the important bit
[01:47] <tseng> i blame latexer.
[01:51] <burner> anyone know how if there are plans for a bootsplash?
[01:51] <mwilson> Gods, you can only hope not.
[01:51] <jdub> burner: nup, for hoary, we'll have an entirely user-space graphical boot system.
[01:51] <psr> Hmmm, k, I only came on here because the website said I should before posting to bugzilla.
[01:51] <ForsaKen`> i got ubuntu.. great dist.. i have installed kde (i used apt-get install kde-core), did all the upgrade, dist-upgrade, now i want to install a theme, and in ubuntus kde, i just cant
[01:52] <mwilson> Someone define for me what "user-space graphical boot" means...
[01:52] <ForsaKen`> btw ubuntus kde is 3.2.3, and there is kde 3.3
[01:52] <burner> jdub, know if it'll be upgradeable to that from warty?
[01:52] <jdub> burner: of course. :-)
[01:52] <ForsaKen`> the place in control center, where i supost to be able to switch themes, is just isnt there
[01:53] <jdub> mwilson: part of bootsplash is done in-kernel. our graphical boot display won't be done in the kernel at all.
[01:54] <mwilson> burner: Why?  I've never understood it.  Do you sit there and pound the reset button so you can watch the boot?
[01:54] <jdub> mwilson: it's a small amount of work to have a welcoming boot process.
[01:54] <burner> no... i have a laptop... i take it everywhere with me... there's no hibernate in linux yet (stable) so I reboot often
[01:55] <burner> jdub, no kernel stuff?!?!?!?
[01:55] <jdub> burner: that's not the reason why it's useful, though.
[01:55] <jdub> burner: no. entirely user space.
[01:55] <mwilson> It's not "useful" at all.  It's just eye-candy, then?
[01:56] <jdub> mwilson: it makes the machine less confronting.
[01:56] <burner> how is it entirely userspace?
[01:56] <burner> jdub, know if dhcp will be backgrounded in the new boot process in hoary?
[01:56] <jdub> burner: it's not run in the kernel at all, it's just normal software.
[01:56] <burner> no, i get that
[01:56] <jdub> burner: i don't think we'll change the actual boot process substantially
[01:57] <burner> i've just never heard of an entirely userspace bootsplash
[01:57] <ForsaKen`> i got ubuntu.. great dist.. i have installed kde (i used apt-get install kde-core), did all the upgrade, dist-upgrade, now i want to install a theme, and in ubuntus kde, i just cant. the place in control center, where i supost to be able to switch themes, is just isnt there
[01:57] <jdub> burner: that's what rhgb is on fedora.
[01:57] <jdub> ForsaKen`: don't know; KDE isn't supported
[01:57] <ForsaKen`> =\
[01:57] <burner> :\  dhcp hangs forever for me since I only use wireless and the ipw2100 modules needs to be reloaded after totally booted :\
[01:57] <mwilson> X isn't running, obviously, so doesn't that require FB or something similar?
[01:57] <jdub> ForsaKen`: you might be able to ask on the list
[01:58] <mwilson> Since it's not in kernel-space?
[01:58] <jdub> mwilson: we may use X or FB (rhgb uses X)
[01:58] <burner> ForsaKen`, you just got kde-core... get kde3
[01:58] <ForsaKen`> ok thanks
[01:58] <jdub> burner: why does the module need to be reloaded?
[01:58] <mwilson> Maybe I'm an idiot, but how do you run X if you don't have a kernel yet?
[01:59] <ForsaKen`> hmm thats it, there is only kde-core package, all the athere are just small support things
[01:59] <jdub> mwilson: you *do* have a kernel.
[01:59] <burner> got me... i've alwyas had to do it with ipw2100
[01:59] <ForsaKen`> kdeartwork - themes, styles and more from the official KDE release
[01:59] <burner> rmmod ipw2100; modprobe ipw2100; dhclient eth1 <--always my first command after X loads
[01:59] <ForsaKen`> ill download this :)
[01:59] <mwilson> So you're talking about switching at init time, not at kernel time.
[01:59] <psr> Can any of you even see what I'm typing?
[01:59] <jdub> ForsaKen`: install 'kde'
[01:59] <ForsaKen`> love ubuntu :DDDDDDDd
[02:00] <sean_> psr , I can see you
[02:00] <WW_> Anybody using Evolution Mail? Does Help->Contents or Help->Quick Reference give you anything?  Nothing happens when I try these here.
[02:00] <ForsaKen`> k thanks :)
[02:00] <sean_> WW , works for me
[02:00] <burner> WW_, doesn't work for me either
[02:00] <jdub> WW_: can you file a bug?
[02:00] <jdub> WW_: i reproduced it here
[02:00] <sean_> I just updated from the repositories in the last 30 minutes
[02:01] <LinuxJones> psr, we can see you !!
[02:01] <sean_> It might already be fixed
[02:01] <ForsaKen`> btw if there is some one from israel, or from around here, i have opned a ubuntu 100MBiT mirror in israel: http://ubuntu.sam-hosting.co.il fell free to use :D
[02:01] <sean_> Whats the deal with using the universe repository
[02:01] <jdub> sean_: it's unsupported, but available for use
[02:01] <WW_> jdub: Can and will.  Just wanted to see if I was missing something obvious.
[02:01] <jdub> sean_: it's debian main, built for ubuntu
[02:01] <sean_> will ubuntu prefer its own repositores, or if you pick apply all upgrades if world has a more recent version will it automatically use it
[02:02] <sean_> thanks jdub
[02:02] <psr> sean_ and LinuxJones, thanks.  I just wanted confirmation that my two problems are bugs I should file in bugzilla.
[02:02] <jdub> sean_: universe is an ubuntu repository
[02:02] <sean_> jdub: I know its a ubuntu repository, I just wondered how nice it played with ubuntu main and what the preferences where by default
[02:03] <jdub> sean_: nothing's duplicated between main and universe
[02:03] <LinuxJones> psr, have you upgraded you system recently ?
[02:03] <jdub> sean_: so it should, in general, just work
[02:03] <psr> No, unfortunately I can't connect that machine to the internet.  Its a clean install off an ISO I downloaded on Saturday.
[02:04] <LinuxJones> psr, what kind of problem are you having ?
[02:04] <sean_> anyone want to help out an irc newbie?
[02:05] <psr> LinuxJones: One is that the "configure" option in Synaptic doesn't  do anything, and stops dpkg-reconfigure from doing anything.
[02:05] <sean_> im using xchat , what does someones name in yellow mean on the left?
[02:05] <burner> sean_, highlighted.. means they said your name
[02:05] <jdub> sean_: probably that they've mentioned your name
[02:05] <jdub> not highlighted
[02:05] <jdub> sean_: highlighted
[02:05] <burner> ;)
[02:05] <sean_> ahhhhh
[02:05] <tseng> jdub: i guess howl in gnome-vfs has to wait for hoary?
[02:06] <sean_> just set up ubuntu in the last hour
[02:06] <burner> ForsaKen`, you an avid kde user?
[02:06] <LinuxJones> psr, give me a sec to check
[02:06] <sean_> easiest install every
[02:06] <sean_> event found my atheros based wifi card
[02:06] <LinuxJones> psr, I have to isntall gnome-perl
[02:06] <pyramid> burner, you mean you set up ubuntu in less than one hour.
[02:06] <sean_> its a pity there is no nice gui to configure wifi connections (wep key etc.)
[02:06] <ForsaKen`> avid kde user ?
[02:06] <psr> LinuxJones: The other is that the XF86Config thats generated for my PCI GFX card doesn't work. (And it didn't seem to detect my AGP GeForce at all)
[02:06] <burner> pyramid, ?
[02:07] <ForsaKen`> i just dont really like gnome
[02:07] <pyramid> burner, did you say you set up ubuntu in less than one hour.
[02:07] <burner> ForsaKen`, i'm curious if you know anything about kde and making usb drives appear on the desktop when you plug em in ;)
[02:07] <burner> kinda like how gnome does
[02:07] <WayOutWest> same here but i like ubuntu as a whole and is making me like gnome more
[02:07] <burner> pyramid, maybe?  
[02:07] <psr> LinuxJones: You have to install gnome-perl to make synaptic work properly?
[02:07] <LinuxJones> psr, have you installed the nvidia driver ?
[02:07] <burner> pyramid, i bet it was more like 20 minutes
[02:07] <pyramid> burner, that is incredible.
[02:08] <LinuxJones> psr, yes to configure it said that I needed it to run
[02:08] <burner> it's not gentoo ;)
[02:08] <ForsaKen`> click on your sesktop > create new > device > ..
[02:08] <pyramid> burner, i have been working on gentoo for about 8 months and it still is not set up
[02:08] <burner> ForsaKen`, i know about that... not what i was thinking ideally
[02:09] <burner> pyramid, doesn't surprise me ;)
[02:09] <WayOutWest> has anyone done a dual boot with XP?
[02:09] <pyramid> burner, that is what gets me...gentoo never seems to be finished.
[02:09] <burner> WayOutWest, of course
[02:09] <psr> LinuxJones: No, I tried to switch to nv by doing a dpkg-reconfigure, but it didn't work.
[02:10] <pyramid> burner, everyday you are having to recompile new libraries or whatever and then having to recompile all the programs.
[02:10] <burner> pyramid, so install ubuntu or kanotix 
[02:10] <psr> LinuxJones: Probably because I selected the wrong modules or something, but isn't the point meant to be that everything just works?
[02:10] <pyramid> burner, well when i get another machine i am going to try ubuntu...but this one is heavily loaded with gentoo.
[02:10] <LinuxJones> psr,  >>http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[02:10] <LinuxJones> psr,  see #1
[02:11] <burner> eh, to each their own... i'll never use gentoo again... wasted too many hours of my life
[02:11] <LinuxJones> psr,  configure seems to be working jsut fine for me in Synaptic
[02:11] <pyramid> burner, i agree...gentoo is a real time-killer.
[02:11] <WayOutWest> burner, is it difficult, i tried one with Fedora Core 2 which, after searching after install, i found to have known problems with XP. so Ubuntu has none of these?
[02:11] <ForsaKen`> i installed gentoo, the 1st thing i did after the pc booted to the linux, was rm -rf *
[02:11] <ForsaKen`> the couldnt even make a NORMAL INSTALL PROGRAM ?!
[02:12] <burner> WayOutWest, none i've seen
[02:12] <pyramid> ForsaKen`, i can fully understand that.
[02:12] <ForsaKen`> i have to sit with 3 pages and do like 23214234 commands
[02:12] <burner> heh, you learn a lil bit though
[02:12] <WayOutWest> burner, thanks i might try it sometime.
[02:12] <burner> i would never known what swapon command did'
[02:12] <pyramid> burner, yes that is why so many people on slashdot call gentoo the GURU linux
[02:12] <pyramid> burner, and i suppose they really do have a witch doctor for a developer.
[02:13] <ForsaKen`> and apt-get works much better then em-some-thing i dont remember the name
[02:13] <sean_> how is ubuntu so fast! I was running gnome 2.6 on debian until yesterday, and I'm running 8 apps at onece without any sign of swapping
[02:13] <burner> their old lead dev quit... daniel robbins
[02:13] <pyramid> burner, yes i heard that..i wonder where he went.
[02:13] <tseng> would you people get over gentoo in here already
[02:13] <nasdaq4088> is ubuntu faster than other os on the market?
[02:14] <ForsaKen`> lol :+)
[02:14] <pyramid> tseng, we are comparing install times of gentoo vs ubuntu...ie 8 months vs 20 minutes.
[02:14] <burner> nasdaq4088, yes!  ;)   jk
[02:14] <meekj> How can a prevent a module from loading at boot?
[02:15] <psr> LinuxJones: Yes, I read the FAQ :-)  My problem isn't that the nvidia card wasn't set up correctly (It would have been nice if it had been though).  My problem is that having decided to use the Virge, the installer left me with an XF86Config file that doesn't suit the card.  Its a known problem with the XFree86 Virge driver, and the work around is to use a lower resolution and colour depth.
[02:15] <tseng> pyramid: i hear you spreading fud about gentoo a few times a day, among all your other useless rambling. could you try sticking to the topic?
[02:15] <burner> meekj, take it out of /etc/modules
[02:15] <burner> meekj, and if it's loaded by hotplug... add it to the hotplug blacklist
[02:15] <pyramid> tseng, why do you call it FUD....these are simple facts and we should be allowed to compare things with ubuntu in a ubuntu channel.
[02:16] <tseng> 8 months?
[02:16] <meekj> hum, it says at the top of the file /etc/modules to not mess with it by hand.
[02:16] <tseng> this is not a fact, that is crap
[02:16] <nasdaq4088> the security features of ubuntu
[02:16] <LinuxJones> psr, the vesa driver will not work with that card, I am not familiar with the Virge card is it real old ?
[02:16] <nasdaq4088> how good is it?
[02:16] <pyramid> tseng, yes tseng i have been installing gentoo for 8 months and it still is not finished.
[02:16] <tseng> pyramid: then you are doing something wrong.
[02:16] <psr> LinuxJones: see http://www.mail-archive.com/xfree86@xfree86.org/msg11195.html
[02:16] <pyramid> tseng, and he said he installed ubuntu in 20 minutes.
[02:17] <tseng> me too
[02:17] <tseng> i can install gentoo in ~1 hour
[02:17] <burner> meekj, i'm not sure how to do it if not to do it from hand?
[02:17] <pyramid> tseng, well i don't know what i am doing wrong..i am just trying to keep up with the witch doctor over there.
[02:17] <psr> LinuxJones: Yeah, its pretty old.  I use it to drive a second monitor in a xinerama layout.
[02:18] <pyramid> burner, how can you install gentoo in one hour when the packages change every day
[02:18] <meekj> burner: I'm sorry, /etc/modules can be edited. But the module I want to stop loading is not listed there.
[02:18] <LinuxJones> psr, would be better to put the GForce card in there :)
[02:18] <burner> pyramid, to get an up and running system only takes about an hours
[02:18] <burner> hour
[02:18] <psr> LinuxJones: For windows it needs to be set as the the main graphics card in the BIOS for dual head to work.  Thats presumably why the installer didn't see the GeForce.
[02:18] <burner> all systems change... debian/ubuntu/rh/fc/suse/etc
[02:18] <pyramid> burner, well i am not sure what you mean by up and running when the packages need changing every day.
[02:19] <LinuxJones> psr, ahh
[02:19] <burner> they dont' "need" it
[02:19] <jdub> guys, take the off-topic stuff elsewhere pleases
[02:19] <burner> sorry
[02:19] <psr> LinuxJones: It would be best of all to copy my XF86Config accross from my Debian install :-), but that doesn't help the next guy.
[02:19] <burner> the evolution upgrade doesn't help
[02:20] <LinuxJones> psr, worry about yourself first :D
[02:20] <jdub> psr: the 24bit thing is a known problem
[02:20] <burner> (evolution-2.0:8307): Bonobo-WARNING **: Error: 'Unable to find the help files in either /usr/share/gnome/help/evolution-2.0/ or /usr/share/gnome/help/.  Please check your installation'
[02:20] <pyramid> burner, yes i know...i just installed evolution2.0 and then two days later evolution2.01 came out
[02:20] <jensens> whats the ubuntu equivalent to debians modconf?
[02:20] <jensens> or: how to load modules persistent
[02:21] <meekj> jensens: Yeah! Thats what I want to know.
[02:21] <jdub> jensens: add them to /etc/modules
[02:21] <atomsk> wow...nice job with ubuntu guys
[02:21] <jensens> jdub: theres no magic behind it like in debiansm odutils
[02:22] <jdub> jensens: well, that's a whole different matter :)
[02:22] <meekj> I have a module that loads that is not in /etc/modules.
[02:22] <jdub> stuff in /etc/modules will always load, that's your configuration file
[02:22] <burner> meekj, prolly loaded by hotplug
[02:22] <burner> check out the hotplug blacklist
[02:22] <jdub> then there's module-init-tools, hotplug, etc.
[02:22] <meekj> burner: I don't it is, asus_acpi
[02:23] <psr> jdub , LinuxJones : right, thanks.  I realise its not something many people are going to come across, but when you do its painful on the eyes :-)  Are there plans to handle Dual head systems better in the installer?
[02:23] <jdub> most of the stuff loaded will be from hotplug, some of it is loaded from other init scripts,
[02:23] <burner> u sure?
[02:23] <jensens> jdub: well, to load evdev module (for my synaptics touchpad) i just place it in /etc/modules ?
[02:23] <jdub> psr: not for the first release
[02:23] <jdub> jensens: yes
[02:23] <jensens> jdub: thx!
[02:23] <ForsaKen`> if i want to put some thing as an alias, but i dont want to use alias, command evry time that i reboot my pc
[02:23] <ForsaKen`> is there a file that saves all the aliases ?
[02:24] <jensens> ForsaKen`: put it in ~/.bashrc
[02:24] <jdub> ForsaKen`: as in, shell aliases?
[02:24] <LinuxJones> psi, I am not sure, Configure in Synaptic works jsut fine for me BTW.
[02:24] <ForsaKen`> yes as is shell alias
[02:24] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[02:24] <psr> jdub: Fair enough, I can see that its a minority issue.  Ubunutu otherwise seems to rock really very hard.  Keep up the good workl and thanks! :-)  
[02:25] <WW_> I could swear that I chose to NOT participate in the "popularity contest" when I installed ubuntu, but now I see that in my last dist-upgrade, it is installed and has been upgraded.  Can I just remove the package?
[02:25] <psr> LinuxJones: Thanks very much for your help! :-)
[02:25] <LinuxJones> psi, ;)
[02:26] <ForsaKen`> to put all the command? like alias format="rm -rf *.*"
[02:26] <ForsaKen`> or only format="rm -rf *.*
[02:26] <ForsaKen`> i dont really use an alias like that lol =] 
[02:26] <jensens> ForsaKen`: the whole line.
[02:26] <ForsaKen`> thanks
[02:27] <jensens> ForsaKen`: to make it active /for testing/ just do source ~/.bashrc 
[02:27] <sean_> anyone here any good with wifi? Cant seem to figure out how to get ubuntu to remember my wep key
[02:28] <mwilson> Presumably it does things the same way Debian does, in the interfaces file?
[02:29] <justdave> were there known problems with the 10/3 daily cd build for powerpc?
[02:34] <RuffianSoldier> whats a good windows emulator (one that you install windows through and use windows through)\
[02:35] <allybally> RuffianSoldier: not an emulator, but a virtual machine, VMWare allows you to run windows within Linux
[02:35] <allybally> it works v. well.
[02:35] <RuffianSoldier> kool
[02:35] <RuffianSoldier> thats the one i wanted
[02:35] <tardmac> anyone here "upgrade" from debian testing to ubuntu?
[02:36] <allybally> tardmac: i'm thinking about doing it. Dunno if I have the balls though!
[02:36] <tardmac> i'm thinking about it too
[02:36] <tardmac> but it's my laptop
[02:36] <tardmac> that I dual boot
[02:36] <allybally> it would be hell to start from scratch on my laptop, as it has no cd rom
[02:36] <tardmac> I guess I can try
[02:36] <tardmac> lol
[02:36] <RuffianSoldier> allybally - Can i apt-get VMWare?
[02:37] <allybally> heh, they are looking for people to post up on the web site (the main one) what your success was on migrating
[02:37] <tardmac> haha
[02:37] <tardmac> i might as well try it :D
[02:37] <allybally> RuffianSoldier: I don't think so, its a commerical piece of software - www.vmware.com
[02:37] <tardmac> I'll back up my data first though
[02:38] <allybally> tardmac: as long as everything is in /home you should be good to go. I've been reading a few external sources and they say there are probs with reiser just now but ext3 is fully stable
[02:39] <pyramid> and anyway why do people say that package upgrades are not necessary when the authors of the programs themselves think that they are.
[02:39] <tardmac> i'm ext3 on my linux partition
[02:39] <tardmac> unfortunately it's all one partition
[02:39] <tardmac> I can try :)
   gstreamer0.8-cdparanoia libmusicbrainz4 sound-juicer <-- this I have installed by dependencies with sound-juicer in gnome
 but, I cant rip in mp3, what does this program uses for mp3 rip? 
 please
[02:40] <pyramid> it seems to be a constant probem and very pervasive.
[02:40] <allybally> hmm, if you have any free space on the drive (enough for /home), id think about creating a new part for it. You could squeze your / part with qtparted or pqmagic or something like it
[02:42] <RuffianSoldier> Which VMWare product is it?
[02:42] <allybally> I used (I think) WS (for WorkStation)
[02:42] <RuffianSoldier> kk
[02:44] <Hrdwr_BoB> xLobeznox: you need the mp3 libraries
[02:44] <Hrdwr_BoB> they are ... encumbered
[02:44] <xLobeznox> I use debian sarge, not ubuntu
[02:44] <xLobeznox> but, what libraries they are ?
[02:50] <WW_> Could someone help me getting Evolution Mail set up to send mail?
[02:50] <RuffianSoldier> i guess
[02:50] <sean_> WW_ sure 
[02:50] <RuffianSoldier> you have to put in your SMTP address
[02:51] <RuffianSoldier> WW_, SMTP
[02:51] <pyramid> WW_ what version of evolution do you have.
[02:51] <pyramid> it keeps changing every few days.
[02:51] <WW_> pyramid: 2.0 (the latest from ubuntu)
[02:52] <pyramid> WW_, well ok what is your question...2.01 seems to work here and should not be much different
[02:52] <sean_> WW_ what error are you getting?
[02:52] <pyramid> WW_ what setting are you trying to set
[02:52] <WW_> Right... it is 2.0.1.
[02:53] <pyramid> WW_ ok it should be easy to set up...do you know your pop3 and smtp server names.
[02:53] <sean_> WW_ can you send or recieve right now , or neither?
[02:54] <jde> RuffianSoldier, can't you use posftfix?
[02:54] <WW_> I'm not sure how to configure the "Sending Mail" options.  My office computer (running RHEL3 and Evolution 1.4) uses sendmail.
[02:54] <pyramid> WW_ if not you will have to call your ISP and get some data.
[02:54] <RuffianSoldier> jde???????
[02:54] <WW_> Sorry... can't keep up!
[02:54] <pyramid> well who is your ISP
[02:54] <jde> RuffianSoldier, posftfix as your mta.
[02:55] <RuffianSoldier> jde, MTA?
[02:55] <jde> Mail Transfer Agent
[02:55] <sean_> WW_ your mail address is someone@somewhere.com , whats the somewhere.com bit?
[02:55] <RuffianSoldier> jde: how is this relevent to me?
[02:55] <WW_> sean_: That would be colgate.edu
[02:55] <sean_> RuffianSoldier : MTA = Mail Transfer Agent , usually a SMTP server (part of most mail server packages)
[02:56] <jde> You asked ww_ what his smtp server was.
[02:56] <jde> forget it.
[02:56] <sean_> use mailmx.colgate.edu as the mail server
[02:56] <pyramid> jde, he needs to input some information...to set it up.
[02:56] <jde> Ubuntu comes with postfix as opposed to sendmail.
[02:57] <WW_> I found a reference on the school's web page to smtp.colgate.edu, so presumably I should be using that.
[02:57] <pyramid> WW_ ok do you have a user account at your school.
[02:57] <WW_> pyramid: Yes.
[02:57] <sean_> WW_ i just lookup up the domain and it returned mailmx.colgate.edu, smtp is probably the same machine, try smtp first though
[02:58] <pyramid> WW_ ok then...yes type that for your smtp entry...and what is their pop3 server
[02:58] <WW_> I can read the email fine.  It is an Exchange 2003 server, but I am using the IMAP interface for receiving email.
[02:58] <jde> try smtp.colgate.edu
[02:58] <ndowens> how do u download and install packages from deb-src?
[02:58] <sean_> WW_ try sending a mail now , you can send to me if you want , sean@odonnell.nu
[02:58] <pyramid> WW_ ok evolution handles IMAP also.
[02:59] <sean_> just make sure SERVER TYPE is smtp , and HOST is smtp.colgate.edu
[02:59] <WW_> sean_: I've tried that before, but I'm trying it again now...
[03:18] <sean_> WW_ if that does not work , try checking the 'Server requires authentication' box and filling in your username at the bottom
[03:18] <jde> mail.colgate.edu
[03:18] <jde> Try that.
[03:18] <pyramid> WW_, sometimes username is not enough..sometimes it is username@somewhere.something...but you need to check with your ISP
[03:18] <sean_> WW_ you can also try the username with and without the domain , and try the various different types of authentication
[03:18] <sean_> WW_ also if it gives an error message let me know what it is
[03:18] <RuffianSoldier> My friend hosts my account, and my user name is the same as my Email adress, and my STMP and my POP3 are the same= mail.mysticalnexus.com
[03:18] <WW_> jde, pyramid, sean_: Still playing with smtp... I'll try those suggestions next.
[03:18] <jde> I just googled for it. SHould be mail.colgate.edu
[03:18] <sean_> WW_ I've run a few mail severs so we should be able to figure it out
[03:18] <jde> WW_ should be mail.colgate.edu
[03:18] <Phr0stByte> I love Ubuntu!!!
[03:18] <LinuxJones> lol
[03:18] <WW_> jde_: smtp.colgate.edu failed: timed out. I'll try mail.colgate.edu.
[03:18] <jde> Group hug!
[03:18] <Phr0stByte> heh
[03:18] <jde> RuffianSoldier, I 0wn your box!
[03:18] <jde> :^P
[03:18] <Phr0stByte> We sounf like a bunch of Gnome developers....
[03:18] <sean_> WW_ just telneted to mail.colgate.edu on port 25, its definately a working smtp server
[03:18] <Phr0stByte> *sound
[03:18] <jde> RuffianSoldier, kidding kidding.
[03:18] <mwilson> Here's a question that bothered me... why doesn't Ubuntu see shared printers by default, since it uses CUPS (brrr)?
[03:18] <jde> Yeah, cups sucks.
[03:18] <mwilson> I agree, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't see shared printers, which is supposedly one of CUPS' "big deals".  I wondered why that decision had been made.
[03:18] <jde> mwilson, you can put that on ubuntus feature request or something.
[03:18] <pyramid> jde, cups works ok here...not perfect but very usable.
[03:18] <pyramid> jde, what doesn't work for you.
[03:18] <mwilson> jde: Not me, I'm just hanging out watching.  It's not like I'll ever use it, it just struck me as odd.
[03:18] <jde> pyramid, works fine on ubuntu sept I've had to jump through hoops on other distros.
[03:18] <jde> Usually just settle for apsfilter.
[03:18] <pyramid> jde, well i haven't had too much problem with it except for the cups drivers...but when i use the gimp-print driver with cups i don't have much problems.
[03:18] <mwilson> Ugh, I gave up on apsfilter.
[03:18] <mwilson> If ifhp can't do it, it's not worth doing.
[03:18] <LinuxJones> Night all sleepy Time !!
[03:18] <jayeola> hi chaps
[03:18] <pyramid> jayeola, chaps huh...where are you from
[03:18] <jde> WW_, did mail.colgate.edu work?
[03:18] <jayeola> london. installing ubuntu but i'm stuck at the partition stage
[03:18] <pyramid> jayeola, oh no wonder that is common language there...hello to you also
[03:18] <pyramid> pardner
[03:18] <jayeola> i'd like to boot with win98/ubuntu/blag(fedora)
[03:18] <jayeola> is any one dual booting here?
[03:18] <soleblaze> having some problems installing ubuntu..I get get the error:
[03:18] <jayeola> and where u from pyramid ?
[03:18] <soleblaze> Send-Mail: warning fork: Address family not supported by protocol
[03:18] <soleblaze> over and over
[03:18] <soleblaze> anyone know what i'm missing?
[03:18] <pyramid> jayeola, well i don't have dual boot.so i can't help much on that but i am from Texico pardner.
[03:18] <WW_> jde_: No... not yet, anyway.  What's the most likely Authentication Type?  (I know, that's really a question for the sysadmins at Colgate...)
[03:18] <pyramid> jayeola, it used to be called Texas before it was overrun by starving Mexicans crossing the border.
[03:18] <jayeola> texico, is that texas? are u a tex-mex, or should that be mex-tex?
[03:18] <WW_> jde_: I can send mail from my office computer (running Redhat, and Evolution 1.4 using sendmail).  Is there a file that I could check on that computer that would have the information that I need?
[03:19] <jayeola> heh pyramid u seen that movie "blowfish"....
[03:19] <pyramid> jayeola, well i eat a bowl of chili every now and then but i don't think i am tex-mex..but i really don't know.
[03:19] <jayeola> so no dual booters here then....
[03:19] <pyramid> jayeola, the area has changed a lot over the last 20 years.
[03:20] <jayeola> oh?
[03:20] <jayeola> speaking spanish...
[03:20] <pyramid> jayeola, no what was blowfish about?
[03:20] <sean_> WW_ if you go into tools accounts on that machine , you can check the send mail settings there
[03:20] <sean_> doh , but you said it was using sendmail didnt you.....
[03:20] <pyramid> jayeola, no i don't speak any spanish...and i can't speak to all these people here.
[03:20] <jayeola> a comedy with steve martin and eddie murphy
[03:21] <WW_> sean_: Right, that computer uses sendmail.
[03:21] <RuffianSoldier> WW_ - Any luCK?
[03:21] <pyramid> jayeola, i never could understand Mexican..the only thing i understand about Mexico is that they slaughtered all kinds of people at the Alamo.
[03:21] <sean_> WW_ dont know enough about sendmail to know how to extract the servername
[03:21] <lothario> yeah, poor Davy Crockett
[03:21] <pyramid> jayeola, people like Jim Bowie, Davie Crockett, etc
[03:22] <WW_> sean_: Would there be a configuration file somewhere?
[03:22] <lothario> He took one for the team
[03:22] <sean_> WW_ this is probably going to be one for the colgate admins unfortunately
[03:22] <jayeola> indeed
[03:22] <jde> I could never understand American ... only thing I understand about American is that they took land from natives.
[03:22] <nasdaq4088> i can asure you many more mexicans than americans were slaughtered
[03:22] <sean_> yip , but I've heard its a monster
[03:22] <sean_> let me do a quick google
[03:22] <jde> `/rimshot'
[03:22] <pyramid> jayeola, but they have taken over Texas so now i call it Texico....every TV station is in Spanish only.
[03:22] <jdub> guys
[03:22] <nasdaq4088> did you know that 1/3 america belonged to the mexicans.
[03:22] <jdub> offtopic stuff elsewhere please
[03:23] <nasdaq4088> yes
[03:23] <lothario> that's why they wear sheeeet kickers
[03:24] <jde> What are sheet kickers?
[03:24] <lothario> cowboy boots
[03:24] <tseng> drop it
[03:25] <pyramid> tseng, you seem to get very upset when people discuss what is important to them...why not give them their freedom.
[03:25] <pyramid> tseng, did someone take your freedom away from you.
[03:25] <tseng> pyramid: i get very upset beacuse you seem to be at the center of a half dozen off topic discussions in the last two days
[03:26] <tseng> you are so far off base that its ridiculous.
[03:26] <tseng> gentoo, ancient romans, mexico
[03:26] <pyramid> tseng, i did not even mention cowboy boots but i am saying let them talk about what is important to them....
[03:26] <lothario> Davy Crockett never fed a troll!! look where it got him
[03:26] <sean_> WW_ the sendmail config file is going to be called something.mc
[03:26] <jde> All right lets just keep this channel for tech related stuff guys.
[03:27] <sean_> most likely config.mc in /etc/sendmail
[03:27] <WW_> pyramid: I came here to learn about using ubuntu.  All this extraneous chatter is interfering with my ability to do so.  I believe you are free to start your own channel, say #alamo or #americanhistory101.
[03:27] <mwilson> Hm, no one knows about the printing thing.
[03:27] <sean_> if you type "find / -name '*.mc' -print | less" that will give you a list of all such files 
[03:27] <nasdaq4088> lol WW_
[03:28] <whiprush> yay, doom3 works in ubuntu!
[03:28] <sean_> WW_ at the end of the file there will be a MAILER entry, that should contain the smtp server details and settings
[03:29] <pyramid> WW_ well you know...i told you to call your ISP for some data...i think this is the best advice to save you a lot of time...but if you censor all those people just because they don't talk about exactly what you want to hear...you will never broaden your mind.
[03:32] <WW_> pyramid: Yes, that was excellent advice, and I am grateful.
[03:33] <pyramid> WW_ the reason you need to contact your isp is that there are several variables...and you could waste a lot of time just trying permutations of them...it is better to see what mail servers and user accounts your isp wants you to use and also if authentication is necessary
[03:34] <WW_> pyramid: Right.
[03:36] <jayeola> any one tried a palm hand held thing yet?
[03:36] <tseng> jayeola: yes.
[03:36] <tseng> works fine
[03:37] <jayeola> oh yeah?
[03:37] <jayeola> what app?
[03:37] <jde> Geez, politics always kills a room.
[03:37] <tseng> gnome-pilot
[03:37] <jayeola> pilot-link?
[03:37] <tseng> ya
[03:37] <tseng> computer - desktop prefs - palm
[03:37] <jayeola> hard to get going? i tried with fedora but it never got past the sync
[03:38] <tseng> you need to know what the device node is
[03:38] <mwilson> I never found gnome-pilot worth the powder it'd take to blow it to hell... I always used coldsync.
[03:38] <jayeola> /dev/ttyUSB0
[03:38] <jayeola> hmmm
[03:38] <zenwhen> DOOM 3 LINUX BINARIES ARE OUT: http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom/
[03:38] <jayeola> /dev/ttyUSB0
[03:39] <jayeola> that's that my kernel docs said
[03:39] <mwilson> Gods, who cares about D3?
[03:39] <clee> dude. that game was cool.
[03:39] <mwilson> It's not as much of a snooze as some of the others, but it's still a snooze.
[03:39] <clee> it's too bad that the Linux version performs so amazingly shittily.
[03:41] <MepisBelle> heh
[03:41] <mwilson> The last decent FPS was D2.
[03:41] <lothario> is it okay to talk about games here?
[03:42] <jde> It is related to GNU/Linux isn't it?
[03:42] <pyramid> lothario, yes ...of course if that is on your mind and maybe people may even learn something about what games work well and not on ubuntu
[03:43] <HrdwrBoB> zenwhen: I know ! :D :D
[03:44] <zenwhen> Im rather excited.
[03:44] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[03:44] <HrdwrBoB> I played it in winex
[03:44] <nasdaq4088> i'm getting rome total war in 1 months time
[03:44] <zenwhen> My 6800 arrives tomorrow.
[03:44] <HrdwrBoB> but it was slow++
[03:44] <HrdwrBoB> nice
[03:44] <HrdwrBoB> I have a 5700
[03:44] <HrdwrBoB> not the best
[03:44] <zenwhen> What luck.
[03:44] <HrdwrBoB> but certainly capable
[03:45] <zenwhen> Yeah
[03:45] <zenwhen> I have one too
[03:45] <HrdwrBoB> I couldn't justify more.. because I had to buy two :)
[03:54] <TheMonoTone> there's no bug on bugzilla but libphp4-jpgraph dependencies are broken
[03:54] <TheMonoTone> should I put that on there?
[03:56] <dukeku> is anyone else having problems with main/source updating?
[03:57] <dukeku> is anyone else having problems with main/source updating?
[03:57] <dukeku> err
[03:57] <dukeku> wrong window, was trying to hit up arrow in my term /o\
[03:58] <jayeola> ;/
[03:58] <dukeku> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[03:58] <dukeku> heh
[03:58] <jayeola> have u uncommented these sources?
[03:59] <dukeku> they were working fine a day or so ago /o\
[03:59] <jayeola> in /etc/apt/sources.blah?
[03:59] <dukeku> sources.list :
[03:59] <dukeku> aaaaagh keyboard is ass
[03:59] <jayeola> bleh - need some sleep. night chaps!
[04:02] <pyramid> jayeola, night pardner.
[04:02] <spoonyG> ok, let me just say, i installed ubuntu as a goof b/c i saw it all over slashdot...
[04:02] <spoonyG> this was THE fastest and easiest linux installs i've ever done.
[04:02] <jayeola> buenos nochas amigo
[04:02] <spoonyG> i am most impressed
[04:02] <dukeku> :O
[04:03] <pyramid> spoonyG, several people are reporting that...one person said he installed it in 20 minutes.
[04:03] <spoonyG> pyramid, yep that sounds about right
[04:03] <jayeola> 17.5
[04:03] <HrdwrBoB> spoonyG: that's the intention :)
[04:03] <HrdwrBoB> glad to hear it's working
[04:12] <msassak> hi... has anyone else had problems opening nautilus and other applications without using sudo?
[04:12] <HrdwrBoB> how so?
[04:13] <msassak> well, if i run nautilus from the command line, it just sits there, but if i run "sudo nautilus" it opens
[04:14] <HrdwrBoB> that's because nautlius is already running
[04:14] <HrdwrBoB> as your user
[04:14] <HrdwrBoB> type nautilus .
[04:14] <HrdwrBoB> and it will open cwd
[04:14] <msassak> no, it doesn't
[04:15] <HrdwrBoB> what about gnome-open .
[04:15] <joem> running nautilus would still open a new window regardless
[04:15] <msassak> "Error showing url: There is no default action associated with this location."
[04:15] <msassak> yeah, that's what i thought
[04:15] <joem> msassak, is there a nautilus process being run by your user that might need to be killed?
[04:17] <msassak> i've killed all of them but they restart... let me go change that
[04:17] <msassak> apparently "File->Open" fails on every Gnome-ified application as well
[04:18] <HrdwrBoB> hm
[04:18] <HrdwrBoB> sounds like stuff is broken
[04:18] <HrdwrBoB> what does apt-get -f install say
[04:19] <msassak> no problems... "0 upgraded", etc.
[04:19] <HrdwrBoB> hrm
[04:19] <msassak> killing nautilus permanently and starting it again doesn't help either :(
[04:20] <HrdwrBoB> sounds like it's up the shizzle
[04:20] <msassak> heh... is that a technical term?
[04:20] <HrdwrBoB> problem with the gnome libraries somehow
[04:20] <HrdwrBoB> yes!
[04:20] <HrdwrBoB> highly technical
[04:20] <HrdwrBoB> often used by ubuntu developers
[04:20] <HrdwrBoB> well, at least one
[04:20] <msassak> lol... i will use that in the bug report
[04:21] <msassak> fwiw, when i run it with sudo, it spits out messages related to the mime-types of the files in the directory it's opening, so it's at least getting to that part of the code
[04:21] <HrdwrBoB> hm
[04:21] <HrdwrBoB> ok
[04:22] <HrdwrBoB> long shot - try removing all .gnome* things in your home directory
[04:22] <msassak> or i should say, it's *not* getting there when run normally
[04:22] <HrdwrBoB> possibly a local config issue
[04:22] <HrdwrBoB> or create another user
[04:22] <HrdwrBoB> but that will be a PITA because of all the groups etc
[04:22] <msassak> awww cripe... i was hoping to avoid that... 
[04:22] <msassak> another user might be worth a shot
[04:22] <msassak> does ubuntu package xnest?
[04:23] <HrdwrBoB> I'm not sure, it will be in universe at least
[04:23] <msassak> k
[04:23] <msassak> just a second
[04:23] <HrdwrBoB> try renaming your home directory
[04:31] <danbot> anybody here use the AMD64 version of Ubuntu?
[04:31] <tardmac> danbot: i would if I'd be able to get my wireless working
[04:32] <danbot> I just got an AMD64 and MSI K8T Neo last tuesday so I am just checking out my options for Linux AMD64 sulution
[04:33] <t35t0r> danbot: #ubuntu-amd64
[04:33] <t35t0r> not many people there yet
[04:33] <t35t0r> is that nforce3?
[04:33] <danbot> no its a VIA
[04:33] <WW_> Minor nuisance: when I run gedit in one workspace, and then run gedit in another workspace, it pulls the first instance of gedit into the second workspace.  Can configure this so that it starts a new instance of gedit?
[04:33] <t35t0r> ohh yes you said k8t
[04:33] <danbot> VIA K8T800
[04:34] <WW_> s/Can conf/Can I conf/
[04:34] <HrdwrBoB> WW_: I don't think you can , but even if you can that sounds like a bug
[04:34] <WW_> HrdwrBoB: Ah, I figured someone would tell me it was a feature, and I should learn to love it :-)
[04:35] <HrdwrBoB> welcome to ubuntu :)
[04:36] <WW_> HrdwrBoB: I'll file it in bugzilla and see what happens.
[04:36] <steveod> danbot: i have the K8T Master, i tried the 64bit, but the lack of some programs made me switch to the 32bit
[04:36] <HrdwrBoB> cool
[04:36] <HrdwrBoB> ubuntu: now with 300% less retards
[04:36] <msassak> brb
[04:37] <pyramid> i am not sure what went wrong with kde3.3 but bloggsie also reports serious problems with konq...at his place the web site took 52seconds to come in whereas the same website with firefox took only 10seconds...so there is something very wrong with kde3.3
[04:37] <HrdwrBoB> quite likely
[04:37] <HrdwrBoB> unfortunately kde is not technically supported right now
[04:38] <HrdwrBoB> you'll really have to wait for hoary for KDE
[04:38] <pyramid> well something went wrong with kde..but maybe later it will be fixed.
[04:39] <HrdwrBoB> yeah
[04:39] <HrdwrBoB> well after warty is released, hoary will begin development, and KDE should move into SupportedSeed
[04:40] <pyramid> hey this is great there is now a blender channel
[04:40] <neighborlee> :)
[04:40] <pyramid> it has 42 people in it already
[04:41] <neighborlee> yea its been  growing steadily
[04:41] <pyramid> well kde had k3d...so now gnome has blender which i think is very fair.
[04:42] <neighborlee> hmm i'm not familiar with k3d
[04:42] <neighborlee> you mean kpovmodeler ?
[04:43] <pyramid> neighborlee, well it is a nice program..and pretty good docs too online...but i printed an 800page manual on blender and it seems just as powerful
[04:43] <neighborlee> yea blender is amazing once you get into all aspects
[04:44] <pyramid> neighborlee, no i mean k3d...you can get the package from gentoo's website or elsewhere...but you know kde really has some serious problems since they went to 3.3...it may take awhile to get it running again.
[04:45] <pyramid> neighborlee, now i did hear there was a hack coming out of the aKademy for Konq3.3 but it has not made it into the packages yet.
[04:45] <pyramid> neighborlee, it is just that something went very very wrong.
[04:45] <mfeif> hi guys. Can someone help me out with playing video in ubuntu? (I'm not a newbie, but I'm stuck)
[04:45] <neighborlee> its even better with version 2.34 especially now that we can do uvunwrapping with arbitrary surfaces ;-)
[04:45] <CoolChEEzE> anyone direct me toward a way to use the ati drivers (proprietary) on ubuntu
[04:46] <CoolChEEzE> nm i found it 
[04:46] <CoolChEEzE> lol
[04:46] <neighborlee> pyramid, hmm actually Idont follow kde stuff much ;(
[04:46] <neighborlee> pyramid, konq is better but I still find it undesireable
[04:46] <neighborlee> CoolChEEzE, heh
[04:46] <pyramid> neighborlee, well they are working on krita to have something comparable to the gimp2..but it is not ready yet either...so gnome has some advantages at this time.
[04:47] <neighborlee> mfeif, sure where are you stuck
[04:47] <CoolChEEzE> neighborlee, i didnt look hard enough ;)
[04:47] <neighborlee> pyramid, hmmm somehow to me that just seems silly
[04:47] <ubuntu-nubiee> crimsun, you out there?
[04:47] <crimsun> ubuntu-nubiee: yes.
[04:47] <pyramid> neighborlee, well it is nice to have two competing gui's..choice never hurts.
[04:47] <mfeif> I'm on a laptop, that I used to run debian/unstable on; it has a PCI radeon card for vid. I had video working great before the switch to ubuntu; now totem plays the audio but the video is blank for all mimetypes
[04:48] <ubuntu-nubiee> i don't know if you remember, i was having network problems yesterday.
[04:48] <neighborlee> pyramid, gimp2 is the answer to PS so dividing commmunity on YAGDP seems silly to me ;-)) ( yet another graphics design program) < lol
[04:48] <crimsun> ubuntu-nubiee: yep
[04:48] <ubuntu-nubiee> just wanted to let you know i put the nic in a new pci slot and it's just fine. 
[04:48] <crimsun> ubuntu-nubiee: all right, good to hear(read) :)
[04:48] <ubuntu-nubiee> man, gotta hate that.  wasted a good hours!
[04:48] <neighborlee> pyramid, choice is good yes
[04:48] <ubuntu-nubiee> anyway, wanted to say thanks again for the help yesterday
[04:48] <mfeif> neighborlee: I noticed that the XF4 config uses ati driver rather than radeon, but that shouldn't matter, right?
[04:48] <pyramid> neighborlee, it is not about dividing..it is about expanding people's freedom and choices.
[04:49] <neighborlee> mfeif, hmm sounds like your missing plugger
[04:49] <mfeif> neighborlee: I installed gxine and that sorta works, but not so hot. Formerly, I had totem working great
[04:49] <mfeif> what's that?
[04:49] <neighborlee> mfeif, is this just on websites ?
[04:49] <mfeif> no
[04:49] <pyramid> neighborlee, you see I am not God and i dont have the right to take away what God has given them.
[04:49] <mfeif> not on sites; on files either local to the HD or over samba
[04:49] <crimsun> ubuntu-nubiee: no sweat :)
[04:49] <neighborlee> mfeif, hmm not having ati i've really no idea i'm very sorry ;(
[04:49] <mfeif> running totem from commandline produces no error output
[04:49] <mfeif> hm
[04:50] <mfeif> does ubuntu not have codec support or something? I understand that you don't have the same hardware, but I don't even know if ubuntu is supposed to play video well out-of-the-box
[04:50] <neighborlee> mfeif, hmm that is odd..I guess it depends on what kind of codec is needed by what your trying to play
[04:50] <tardmac> lol
[04:51] <mfeif> do you know if totem is using libxine or gstreamer underneath? (I tried several kinds of video; mpeg1,2,4, avi, wmv, etc. no dice all around
[04:51] <HrdwrBoB> mfeif: have you installed totem-xine
[04:51] <neighborlee> mfeif, well depends what your playing..sofar my website stuff is working flawlessly but i've not tried other stuff yet not having the need yet
[04:51] <neighborlee> mfeif, totem-xine is preferable thoug which you can install via synaptic
[04:51] <HrdwrBoB> totem-xine is recommended
[04:51] <mfeif> so the stock totem is gstreamer based?
[04:51] <neighborlee> mfeif, under your 'computer > system ' menu
[04:52] <neighborlee> HrdwrBoB, oops sorry ;=-)
[04:52] <neighborlee> oh well great minds I guess LOL
[04:52] <HrdwrBoB> well it's not really magic :)
[04:52] <HrdwrBoB> better two people help than noen
[04:52] <mfeif> my old unstable install was totem-xine. thanks; I know about synaptic
[04:52] <mfeif> yes, great minds who help; that's good
[04:53] <mfeif> anyone know about power management under ubuntu?
[04:54] <msassak> HrdwrBoB: so deleting .gconf .gconfd .gnome .gnome2 .gnome2_private .nautilus and .metacity got it to stop
[04:55] <neighborlee> mfeif, works fine
[04:55] <neighborlee> mfeif, power management I mean...laptop wize I dunno I'm referring to desktop...
[04:55] <mfeif> neighborlee: cool. I haven't been able to suspend, but that's been tricky on debian/unstable, too
[04:56] <mfeif> so far I'm way impressed by ubuntu; have been a long-time debian fan, but it's been brutal making it into a decent desktop.
[04:57] <RuffianSoldier> whats the theme folder for IceWM?
[04:58] <RuffianSoldier> whats the theme folder for IceWM?
[04:58] <crimsun> RuffianSoldier: system-wide? /usr/share/icewm/themes/
[04:58] <RuffianSoldier> kk
[04:58] <RuffianSoldier> thanks
[04:58] <crimsun> per-user, more than likely ~/.icewm/themes/
[04:59] <RuffianSoldier> naa
[04:59] <RuffianSoldier> its not that
[04:59] <crimsun> check the faq on www.icewm.org :)
[05:01] <mfeif> HrdwrBoB, neighborlee ... thanks a bunch
[05:01] <HrdwrBoB> np
[05:07] <CoolChEEzE> anyone had issues with the binary ati drivers here ?
[05:07] <HrdwrBoB> what sort of issues?
[05:07] <CoolChEEzE> well
[05:07] <CoolChEEzE> ive got em installed
[05:08] <CoolChEEzE> but i have no accel
[05:08] <CoolChEEzE> any time i try anything gl
[05:08] <RuffianSoldier> How do i loggin as root in the GDM?????
[05:08] <CoolChEEzE> machine just hangs
[05:08] <CoolChEEzE> even glxinfo
[05:08] <HrdwrBoB> RuffianSoldier: by defaulkt, ubuntu uses sudo
[05:08] <HrdwrBoB> so you login as your user
[05:08] <HrdwrBoB> then you run 'sudo program'
[05:08] <HrdwrBoB> to run the program as root
[05:08] <HrdwrBoB> it will ask you for your password
[05:09] <RuffianSoldier> i want to move a folder into the /usr/share/icewm/themes but it says im not aloud
[05:09] <crimsun> moin fabbione 
[05:09] <HrdwrBoB> RuffianSoldier: run sudo cp files /usr/share/icewm/themes
[05:09] <RuffianSoldier> what is sudo cp filese>
[05:10] <bob2> RuffianSoldier: do you know how to use cp?
[05:10] <RuffianSoldier> no
[05:13] <pyramid> boy there are a lot of code-theft issues flying around these days...it has made front page news today at www.newsforge.com
[05:13] <RuffianSoldier> ??=-??-=??
[05:14] <HrdwrBoB> RuffianSoldier:  did you get that copied or not
[05:14] <RuffianSoldier> what do you mean?
[05:14] <RuffianSoldier> getwhat copied?
[05:14] <bob2> HrdwrBoB: he doesn't know how to use cp.
[05:14] <HrdwrBoB> the icewm theme you wanted installewd
[05:15] <RuffianSoldier> no
[05:15] <CoolChEEzE> is there a gdesklets package ?

[05:15] <HrdwrBoB> ok, probably easiest to run a terminal, and run sudo nautilus
[05:15] <RuffianSoldier> i dont like nautilus
[05:15] <RuffianSoldier> i like konqueror
[05:15] <aitrus> is there a sound configurator in ubuntu?
[05:16] <HrdwrBoB> well
[05:16] <bob2> CoolChEEzE: it's in universe.
[05:16] <HrdwrBoB> sudo konqueror
[05:16] <bob2> aitrus: it should be automatically setup for you
[05:16] <RuffianSoldier> aight
[05:16] <CoolChEEzE> bob2, tnx
[05:16] <aitrus> bob2: it didn't detect my ich6 onboard audio
[05:16] <CoolChEEzE> if i could only get me ati issue worked out.... ubuntu would be my new home :)
[05:16] <RuffianSoldier> neither mine
[05:16] <bob2> aitrus: does linux support it?
[05:17] <aitrus> bob2: intel says that alsa 1.0.5 and above supports it
[05:17] <bob2> CoolChEEzE: the Free drivers don't work at all?
[05:17] <pyramid> i sure am glad i am not programming anymore with all these code-theft issues flying around
[05:17] <crimsun> aitrus: do you have a dell laptop by any chance?
[05:17] <CoolChEEzE> bob2, yeah they work but i want hw accel
[05:17] <CoolChEEzE> 2d is great
[05:17] <aitrus> crimsun: nope
[05:18] <bob2> aitrus: hrm, that's what ubuntu has...
[05:18] <bob2> aitrus: if no one else has reported it, it'd be great if you could file a bug.
[05:18] <crimsun> aitrus: ok, could you give me the relevant lspci -v line?
[05:18] <aitrus> bob2: i'm wondering if there is a patch that i need to apply to the kernel
[05:19] <bob2> aitrus: well, ubuntu has the version intel says you need...if you have to apply a patch, then it's a bug in the ubuntu kernel :)
[05:19] <aitrus> crimsun: private message it to you?
[05:19] <RuffianSoldier> me no have sound......
[05:19] <RuffianSoldier> me have onboard card
[05:19] <aitrus> bob2: i mean i wonder if i have to apply an intel-supplied patch to it
[05:19] <RuffianSoldier> but meno have soudn
[05:19] <crimsun> aitrus: sure
[05:19] <bob2> RuffianSoldier: what card do you have?
[05:20] <crimsun> aitrus: lspci -v|grep Multimedia
[05:20] <aitrus>         Subsystem: Intel Corp.: Unknown device e400
[05:20] <aitrus>         Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16
[05:20] <aitrus>         Memory at febf8000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable)
[05:20] <aitrus>         Capabilities: [50]  Power Management version 2
[05:20] <aitrus>         Capabilities: [60]  Message Signalled Interrupts: 64bit+ Queue=0/0 Enable-
[05:20] <aitrus>         Capabilities: [70]  #10 [0091] 
[05:20] <aitrus> crap!
[05:20] <aitrus> i am so sorrt
[05:20] <aitrus> sorry
[05:20] <pyramid> hmnm...grace is an interesting program but the fonts sure are small
[05:20] <pyramid> it is hard to read the menus
[05:21] <aitrus> crimsun: hmm.. interesting... there is just a "hub audio controller" and no "multimedia" device...
[05:21] <RuffianSoldier> bob2, i have onboard
[05:26] <RuffianSoldier> bob2
[05:27] <RuffianSoldier> p
[05:27] <bob2> RuffianSoldier: you need to be a lot more specific...
[05:27] <bob2> RuffianSoldier: try asking on the ubuntu-users list, and include the output of "dmesg" and "lspci -v"
[05:28] <RuffianSoldier> i have no clue what those re
[05:28] <RuffianSoldier> are
[05:28] <pyramid> what on earth is a gtk-qt-theme-engine..i thought those widgets competed with each other
[05:28] <RuffianSoldier> all i know is that my sound worked when i was using Libranet
[05:28] <HrdwrBoB> just run them in a terminal
[05:28] <HrdwrBoB> and paste the output into an email
[05:28] <bob2> pyramid: you could just look at the package description...
[05:33] <mr_t> Hey all, before I go getting super worried has anyone else got odd chkrootkit output?
[05:33] <mr_t> On 2 different Ubuntu installs, I get a whole bunch of hidden processes when gnome is running.
[05:33] <bob2> bugs.debian.org/chkrootkit
[05:33] <bob2> it has lots of known false-positives.
[05:33] <pyramid> bob2, sorry i did not get back with you but i had a strange power outage...it killed everything...but anyway you cannot read package descriptions ...they never give enough info.
[05:33] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: that's a stupid reason not to read them.
[05:33] <mr_t> Thanks for the link, I'll follow it from there....
[05:33] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, i try to read them..but they never give any relevant info...it seems you have to install them to see what they really do
[05:34] <ficusplanet> How would I edit the boot arguments so that acpi is off?  Do I edit grub.conf?  If so, where is that?
[05:35] <crimsun> /boot/grub/menu.lst
[05:35] <bob2> pyramid: erm, sure you can read them.  if they don't explain what the package does, it's a bug that you should file.
[05:35] <ficusplanet> Do I have to run a command after running it?
[05:35] <crimsun> ficusplanet: yes, ``update-grub''
[05:35] <pyramid> bob2, well it says that gtk-qt-theme engine is a gtk-qt-theme-engine...great description
[05:36] <RuffianSoldier> i got Mac OS X working on my x86
[05:36] <pyramid> bob2, the description seems a bit tautological to me
[05:37] <HrdwrBoB> too me it seems self evident - it's a GTK theme egine that looks like QT
[05:37] <bob2> yeah, seems pretty clear...
[05:37] <HrdwrBoB> but file a bug that says the description should say that
[05:37] <HrdwrBoB> if it's not obvious for you
[05:37] <bob2> if you think it's unclear, please file a bug with suggested wording
[05:38] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, well i would say your definition is a bit more satisfactory if in fact that is what it is.
[05:41] <pyramid> bob2, i don't have the foggiest idea how to file bugs...i tried to file one many years ago with bugzilla at mozilla and i never could figure out how to do it..so i don't
[05:47] <bob2> pyramid: you login.  you click "Enter a new bug report" and fill in the boxes.
[05:47] <pyramid> bob2, what i saw was an endless matrix of empty boxes...forget it
[05:47] <bob2> pyramid: it's really not that hard.
[05:47] <bob2> easy than whining on IRC, even.
[05:47] <Tux_Rox> I have a small Ubuntu issue I can't seem to resolve. I don't get GDM loading after the system boots. I have to run startx. If I try to configure GDM, I'm told there is no such user. If I add gdm as I user I am required to give a home directory. Any advise?
[05:47] <bob2> Tux_Rox: is it a new install or an upgrade from Debian?
[05:47] <FX|Laptop> Hello
[05:47] <Tux_Rox> bob2: New install, but with cavets. I have Windows and Fedora on the system. I chose to not install a bootloader, then modified FC's Grub to boot. 
[05:47] <FX|Laptop> Anyone give me a hand again. :) I know that kde isn't really supported, but I'm trying to burn an iso with k3b and the setup won't take my root password. Any ideas?
[05:47] <pyramid> bob2, i am not whining bob..i just don't care to subject myself to that kind of crap...forget it..it is not important to me...i can live with a few bugs.
[05:47] <bob2> Tux_Rox: that shouldn't affect it.  did you modify gdm's config file or anything?
[05:47] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: filing bugs on packages helps everyone
[05:47] <bob2> FX|Laptop: have you set a root password?
[05:47] <aitrus> FX|Laptop: i had that same issue... i just ran k3bsetup as root using sudo
[05:47] <Tux_Rox> bob2: I was going to, but without a gdm user, I'm not too sure what to change the default user to.
[05:47] <bob2> Tux_Rox: you don't need a gdm user.
[05:47] <bob2> Tux_Rox: just installing gdm will set everything up for you.
[05:47] <FX|Laptop> Yea I set root's password, but I'll try that running k3b as sudo once and see what happens.
[05:47] <HrdwrBoB> FX|Laptop: using sudo is recommended
[05:48] <Tux_Rox> ok, nice to know. GDM is installed though. What in the init or X start up scripts should I modify to make GDM come up at boot? 
[05:48] <HrdwrBoB> Tux_Rox: if gdm is installed and you're at a console, sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start should start GDM
[05:48] <HrdwrBoB> what happens if you do that?
[05:48] <Tux_Rox> HrdwrBoB, Have not tried. Once Synaptic gets done updating the system I'll try. THX!
[05:49] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, i try to help in other ways that i can understand somewhat...that bug stuff is far beyond me...
[05:49] <HrdwrBoB> tux:cool, if there's an error, then there's a problem with gdm, if it works, it might just be that's it's not loading gdm on boot for some reason
[05:50] <Tux_Rox> HrdwrBoB, Didn't dawn on me that GDM is a service. You'd think that RHCE diploma on my wall would count for something!!! ;-)
[05:50] <aitrus> Tux_Rox: it's a service in RedHat as well...
[05:51] <Tux_Rox> aitrus, EXACTLY! Doh!
[05:51] <aitrus> hahahahahah
[05:51] <HrdwrBoB> perhaps redhat need to examine their curriculum :)
[05:51] <HrdwrBoB> I'll have a chat to a mate who's a redhat trainer
[05:52] <Tux_Rox> Well, it has been 3 years since I took it and my last job was Windows XP Desktop goodness.... if you could call it that. Now that I'm in an Itanium lab, It's mostly Linux and HP-UX, thank God!!!!
[05:52] <jewdan> can someone help me remove old versions of glib?
[05:53] <HrdwrBoB> jewdan: if you've upgraded using apt or dpkg etc they should be reomved
[05:53] <HrdwrBoB> what exactly is the problem?
[05:53] <Tux_Rox> So should I go for the Popularity Contest? Sounds like a cool idea.
[05:53] <HrdwrBoB> Tux_Rox: ah, excellent :)
[05:53] <jewdan> *** 'glib-config --version' returned 1.2.9, but GLIB (1.2.10)
[05:53] <jewdan> *** was found! If glib-config was correct, then it is best
[05:53] <jewdan> *** to remove the old version of GLIB.
[05:53] <jewdan> etc..
[05:53] <Tux_Rox> HrdwrBoB, Heaven on Earth!!!!
[05:54] <HrdwrBoB> hm, that's odd, what does dpkg --list|grep glib return
[05:55] <jewdan> ii  dbus-glib-1    0.22-1ubuntu1  simple interprocess messaging system (GLib-b
[05:55] <jewdan> ii  libdb1-compat  2.1.3-7        The Berkeley database routines [glibc 2.0/2.
[05:55] <jewdan> ii  libglib1.2     1.2.10-9       The GLib library of C routines
[05:55] <jewdan> ii  libglib2.0-0   2.4.6-0ubuntu1 The GLib library of C routines
[05:55] <jewdan> ii  libglib2.0-dat 2.4.6-0ubuntu1 Common files for GLib library
[05:55] <defendguin> good evening
[05:55] <HrdwrBoB> you should probably install libglib1.2-dev or libglib2.0-dev
[05:56] <jewdan> uh, how do i do that? (newbie obviously)
[05:56] <HrdwrBoB> you can use synaptic
[05:56] <HrdwrBoB> or you can run sudo apt-get install libglib1.2-dev
[05:57] <HrdwrBoB> synaptic is probably an easier way
[05:57] <aitrus> does the "find toolbar" in firefox work for anyone?  mine doesn't actually go to the next instance of a word.  i have to highlight the words instead and scroll
[05:58] <WW_> aitrus: What version do you have?
[05:59] <aitrus> WW_: 0.99_1.0PR.1-0
[05:59] <aitrus> WW_: (the latest Ubunutu package)
[06:02] <WW_> aitrus: Try this: under Edit->Preferences, select Advanced, and in the Accessibility section, check "Use Find As You Type"
[06:02] <burner> or just use "/"
[06:03] <aitrus> that works
[06:03] <aitrus> thanks
[06:03] <CoolChEEzE> anything special on configuring the g-desklets package... normal things seem not to work for me
[06:04] <elmaya> why
[06:04] <CoolChEEzE> well i dunno why
[06:04] <CoolChEEzE> hehe
[06:04] <CoolChEEzE> thats why i asked
[06:05] <bob2> CoolChEEzE: run it and start up the applets
[06:05] <CoolChEEzE> bob2, yeah.. i tried that
[06:05] <bob2> CoolChEEzE: and?
[06:05] <bob2> aitrus: f3 goes to the next match for me
[06:05] <CoolChEEzE> cannot add display
[06:05] <CoolChEEzE> the file does not exist
[06:05] <bob2> that's the error you get?
[06:05] <CoolChEEzE> bob2, yeah
[06:06] <bob2> CoolChEEzE: from nautilus or gdesklets?
[06:06] <CoolChEEzE> gdesklets
[06:06] <CoolChEEzE> 'the display could not be added because the file does not exist'
[06:07] <bob2> how about if you do it manually?
[06:07] <elmaya> gdesklets name.display
[06:07] <CoolChEEzE> bob2, that is manually
[06:07] <CoolChEEzE> from the console
[06:09] <bob2> CoolChEEzE: sure you're giving the correct path?
[06:09] <bob2> (have you used gdesklets on other distros?)
[06:09] <CoolChEEzE> bob2, no
[06:09] <CoolChEEzE> i just read the man page... and a how2
[06:09] <CoolChEEzE> i was a gkrellm kinda guy
[06:09] <CoolChEEzE> wanted to try out gdesklets
[06:10] <CoolChEEzE> im fairly new to gnome as well... i been a E user for like 5 years
[06:10] <CoolChEEzE> ^^ or more
[06:11] <jewdan> how do i use synaptic to install libraries i have in tar form? can i?
[06:11] <bob2> jewdan: no
[06:11] <jewdan> ok. thanks
[06:11] <bob2> jewdan: what libraries are you after?
[06:11] <CoolChEEzE> bob2, nm .. i got it... im a fool
[06:11] <CoolChEEzE> lol
[06:12] <jewdan> bob2, glib
[06:13] <HrdwrBoB> jewdan: is this a new install of a system?
[06:13] <bob2> jewdan: glib is in Ubuntu,
[06:13] <bob2> CoolChEEzE: ah, cool
[06:13] <jewdan> not the latest version. im installing something else that needs it
[06:13] <HrdwrBoB> ok hangon, better idea, jewdan what do you want to install that needs glib
[06:14] <bob2> jewdan: what are you installing?
[06:15] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:15] <jewdan> well, the eventual goal is to get g3torrent working but it requires other stuff. i needed to get wxpython which needs this stuff i think
[06:15] <bob2> wxpython is in ubuntu already
[06:15] <bob2> you don't need to build that.
[06:15] <jewdan> it said i dont have it
[06:16] <bob2> have you told synaptic to use universe?
[06:16] <HrdwrBoB> ok time for ubuntu on this box, back later
[06:17] <aitrus> i think i read a thread about his somewhere else... but... is there a way to make nautilus not open a new window every freaking time??
[06:18] <Tux_Rox> OK, Resolved GDM. On to the next issue..... Project Utopia..... /proc/scsi/scsi sees the MediaBay 7 in 4, and when I plug in a usb flash drive, it shows up as well, but not in Naultilus. Anyone know why that might be?
[06:18] <bob2> yes
[06:18] <jewdan> does this refer to x86?
[06:18] <jewdan> *** X libraries or include files not found. Check 'config.log' for
[06:18] <jewdan> *** more details.
[06:18] <bob2> google for "disable spatial nautilus", first hit is the answer
[06:18] <aitrus> spatial!
[06:18] <bob2> jewdan: what are yuo building now?
[06:18] <jewdan> gtk+
[06:18] <jewdan> 1.2.9
[06:19] <jewdan> except i just noticed there is 1.2.10
[06:19] <adapt> bob2, its now in the computer -> desktop prefs -> file managment
[06:20] <pyramid> aitrus, yes that is the worst design i have ever seen...it splatters windows all over the desktop when you just go 7levels deep....i don't know why they ever went to a spatial mode
[06:20] <adapt> behavior tab
[06:20] <bob2> adapt: oh, I didn't know there was a visible option, thanks.
[06:20] <jalil> i just installed ubuntu and i like it a lot but i cant seem to get the my cdrom to work.    can anyone point me to a place where  i can get help?
[06:20] <bob2> jewdan: why are you building gtk+?  it's in Ubuntu already.
[06:20] <pyramid> aitrus, but anyway it is easy to turn it off
[06:21] <aitrus> pyramid: yeah, and it seems that "less configurable through the menus" is their direction
[06:21] <jewdan> ok. i have a g3torrent.py file. how do i install it?
[06:21] <asdf_46> Has anyone had sucess in using the lockdown stuff in gnome?
[06:21] <pyramid> aitrus, well i will tell you what i was told...go to file preferences and click the 3rd box
[06:21] <crimsun> jewdan: you can simply run it if you wish.
[06:21] <jewdan> how? i cant
[06:21] <adapt> jewdan, `./g3torrent.py`
[06:21] <crimsun> jewdan: /usr/bin/env python g3torrent.py
[06:21] <jewdan> if this works im going to have to shoot myself
[06:23] <jewdan> Traceback (most recent call last):
[06:23] <jewdan>   File "g3torrent.py", line 19, in ?
[06:23] <jewdan>     import wx
[06:23] <jewdan> ImportError: No module named wx
[06:23] <jewdan> this is why i started to build all that stuff
[06:23] <aitrus> pyramid: hmm... i liked that tight layout though... man, decisions decisions...
[06:23] <pyramid> aitrus, go to desktop preferences, file management, behavior and the browse in windows box
[06:24] <bob2> jewdan: no, you need to install wxwindows
[06:24] <jewdan> oohhhh
[06:24] <pyramid> aitrus, no that spatial mode is absolutely worthless...try builing something like glom where you directories are many layers deep and you need to view things...windows are splattered everywhere
[06:24] <jewdan> just google it?
[06:24] <bob2> jewdan: libwxgtk2.4-python - wxWindows Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython binding)
[06:25] <jewdan> eh?
[06:25] <defendguin> jdub, you around?
[06:27] <pyramid> aitrus, anyway try those settings i gave you...it seems to have worked for me.
[06:27] <jewdan> bob2, can you explain what you mean?
[06:27] <aitrus> pyramid: yeah, that disables the multi-windows stuff... but i'm not sure i like the browser-window layout
[06:28] <bob2> jewdan: install that package
[06:28] <pyramid> aitrus, well it solved my problem anyway.
[06:28] <bob2> defendguin: he'll be around later.
[06:28] <jewdan> do i have to download it or is it already somewhere?
[06:28] <defendguin> its ok
[06:29] <defendguin> we were having a bit of a spam situation in #gnome on irc.gimp.net and we needed an op
[06:29] <bob2> jewdan: install it with synaptic or aptitutde or whatever you normally use
[06:29] <defendguin> they have it under control now i hope
[06:30] <bob2> ah
[06:31] <ionrock> hello, does anyone have any good documents for creating a initrd.img for a kernel I just compiled for ubuntu? I am trying to get apm or acpi support
[06:31] <Treenaks> both are in the default kernel
[06:31] <Treenaks> so you don't need to compile
[06:31] <bob2> if you're building your own kernel, it's generally easiest to just not use initrd at all.
[06:32] <ionrock> if that is the case then how do I enable them or configure them?
[06:32] <ionrock> I saw apmd but it says it is not compiled in the kernel
[06:32] <Treenaks> ionrock: it's a module..
[06:32] <Treenaks> ionrock: everything's a module, and loaded automagically
[06:32] <bob2> f
[06:33] <bob2> if not, load it manuallly, "modprobe apm".
[06:33] <Treenaks> and "echo apm >> /etc/modules" (that's 2 ">" signs!)
[06:33] <ionrock> Treenaks, so I guess my question then is how can I get my battery applet to work correctly ;)
[06:34] <Treenaks> ionrock: how old is your laptop?
[06:34] <ionrock> pretty old, it is from 2000 I think
[06:34] <Treenaks> ah
[06:34] <ionrock> a dell inspiron 5000
[06:34] <Treenaks> you should pass "acpi=force" on the kernel command line
[06:34] <ionrock> I was able to get it "hibernate" with win2k 
[06:35] <ionrock> I would do that in grub right?
[06:35] <Treenaks> you can do that by adding that at the end of the "# kopt=" line in /boot/grub/menu.lst
[06:35] <Treenaks> ionrock: dmesg | grep too\ old should tell you if acpi is disabled
[06:35] <Treenaks> ionrock: after editing menu.lst, run update-grub and reboot
[06:36] <asdf_46> I am supprised it doesn't just work, On the 5100 it is like magic. The batt applet anyway.
[06:37] <Treenaks> asdf_46: it just works, but ACPI disables itself on old hardware, because there is a lot of old hardware with ACPI bugs
[06:37] <asdf_46> Treenaks, is that why descent support is always lagging, buggy hardware that is?
[06:37] <bob2> does any hardware actually implement ACPI properly?
[06:38] <Tux_Rox> So, volume control applet does not see an audio device. It seems that all the drivers are loaded, so I'm stumped......
[06:38] <Treenaks> asdf_46: current hardware is mostly OK
[06:38] <Treenaks> bob2: my laptop doesn't have any errors in its acpi tables, and everything works fine (ACPI 1.0 though)
[06:38] <pyramid> ionrock, well win2k costs a small fortune so why complain because you don't get as much with free software....at least you get some things
[06:39] <asdf_46> but I do miss the viruses...
[06:40] <ionrock> oh, i just meant that it worked... and I have seen more than enough proof that it works well with linux so I was just making it clear that it was possible "physically"
[06:40] <bob2> Treenaks: suspend even?
[06:41] <ionrock> Treenaks, won't update-grub though rewrite my grub file? 
[06:41] <pyramid> ionrock, well anything is possible if you want to dig for it...but your time may cost you more than paying someone else like MS to do it for you...anyway...since this stuff is all free people should stop complaining
[06:41] <asdf_46> Wasn't there a place you could fill out a survey of how ubutu works.
[06:41] <ionrock> pyramid, I totally agree... no complaints here. I like the fonts way better anyways than on win2k
[06:42] <pyramid> ionrock, yes that is the spirit...just let go of earthly things...so what if you don't have a zillion features like MS...who cares ...who uses them...and why pay for what you don't need.
[06:43] <defendguin> do you have to do anything after turning on dma? or it will just use dma from there on out?
[06:44] <crimsun> via hdparm? it's immediat.
[06:44] <crimsun> +e
[06:44] <defendguin> good deal
[06:45] <daniels> pyramid: please continue this conversation in #offtopic
[06:46] <jewdan> i still can install a .deb file
[06:46] <ionrock> this may be a bit dumb, but when adding the acpi=force to the kernel options in my menu.lst, what is the format with regard to spaces and things
[06:47] <ionrock> I already have root=/dev/hda1 ro 
[06:48] <SuperL4g> tseng: I hosed my main Gentoo install today, with depclean. :/
[06:48] <florin> how can I found gnome-mime-types-files for configuration
[06:49] <Tux_Rox> Need a hang with udev and also audio. neither are working.... :-(
[06:49] <Tux_Rox> hang=hand
[06:50] <Tux_Rox> Need a hand with udev and also audio. neither are working.... :-(
[06:50] <aitrus> ionrock: ...ro quiet splash acpi=force
[06:50] <bob2> Tux_Rox: how is udev "not working"?
[06:51] <WW_> jewdan: Did you mean to say that you _can't_ install a .deb file?
[06:52] <jewdan> yeah my bad
[06:52] <LeeColleton> what is the recommended method for burning iso-9660 cd images with ubuntu?
[06:52] <ionrock> aitrus,  thanks
[06:52] <Tux_Rox> bob2: not sure that it is udev, hal or d-bus, but I have a 7 in 4 Media card reader and a USB disk, and neither are showing up in Nautilus when pluged in, yet I see them in /proc/scsi/scsi.......
[06:52] <pyramid> daniels, he has a few problems and i am telling him who cares if this stuff is mostly crap and doesn't work..he did not pay for it anyway
[06:52] <bob2> jewdan: synaptic didn't work?
[06:52] <jewdan> i dont know how to get the file in that program
[06:53] <WW_> jewdan: Do you have the universe component enabled?  (More basic: do you know what the universe component is?)
[06:53] <defendguin> hey do you think we could fix it so when i plug in my flash drive instead of bing called sda1 it could be called "flash"
[06:53] <daniels> pyramid: your conversation on 'let go of earthly things' et al is very much off-topic for #ubuntu.  also, politeness when dealing with others is appreciated.
[06:53] <jewdan> ww: no :(
[06:54] <pyramid> daniels, i am being polite...i did not degrade him...i am enlightening him to make use of whatever crap he can find for free as best as he can instead of complaining that it doesn't work as well as MS software
[06:54] <WW_> jewdan: First, here's a quick read: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
[06:55] <jewdan> ok, thanks for your help. going to bed for now.
[06:56] <jewdan> ill continue work in the morning
[06:57] <ionrock> pyramid, just to be clear, I wasn't complaining. I have found that with a little effort linux has offered many more features that I can use. Ubuntu has done a great job at making it easy to configure and use while keeping the power of debian that I like. For this reason I would not call ubuntu crap or any other distro I have tried
[06:58] <RuffianSoldier> Mine Linux is ien funterbox ist is so fun to use!
[06:58] <Anes> got a question for you guys. i have to use expert mode on the installer to disable the extra IDE kernel modules, else it hangs
[06:59] <Anes> is there any way to disable the non-generic IDE modules in simple mode?
[06:59] <florinan> Hi, How can I found gnome-mime-types in order to configure ?
[06:59] <RuffianSoldier> IDE has been replaced with HNE, it looks likefirewire, but for the inside of your case
[07:00] <Anes> it's an IDE system.
[07:02] <WW_> LeeColleton: nautilus worked for me.  Right-click, select "Write to Disc"
[07:03] <bob2> jewdan: libwxgtk2.4-python, install it.
[07:04] <SuperL4g> Can you run concurrent apt-get's?
[07:04] <SuperL4g> or is that bad, just like it is with Gentoo's emerge? :)
[07:05] <Anes> ok, i'll ask again. i'm trying to install, and would prefer the simple 'linux' install to the 'expert' kernel
[07:05] <Anes> but one of the extra IDE modules that get loaded makes my system hang after detection.
[07:05] <Anes> so is there some option to pass to the 'linux' kernel to ignore the extra IDE modules?
[07:07] <LeeColleton> WW_: My firewire cdrom will crash nautilus and 'cdrecord -scanbus' doesn't show it.  This is weird because it worked with the debian version of cdrecord
[07:09] <WW_> LeeColleton: Ah, well for help with that, keep poking the experts.  And file a bug report!
[07:15] <WW_> LeeColleton: Well then, keep poking yourself until it works  :-)
[07:15] <SuperLag> Is there a way to pass your essid/wep info to your wireless interface before it starts, so you don't have to do it manually every time?
[07:16] <bob2> you can set it in /etc/network/interfaces
[07:18] <WW_> SuperLag: See also question 5: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[07:21] <SuperLag> WW_: _excellent_, thank you
[07:22] <SuperLag> WW_: are you one of the Ubuntu devs?
[07:23] <WW_> SuperLag: Not even close!
[07:24] <neuro_> "Need to get 97.1MB/394MB of archives. After unpacking 1218MB will be used."
[07:24] <SuperLag> :)
[07:24] <neuro_> Wheeee! :)
[07:25] <calc> neuro_: hi :)
[07:25] <WW_> SuperLag: I've just been hanging out here while I work out the bugs in my new ubuntu system. 
[07:25] <neuro_> calc: i'm not *that* neuro, in case you're wondering
[07:25] <calc> ah ok
[07:26] <neuro_> ryan blagged that nick before I did, even though I think we've both been using the same online moniker for about the same length of time (~ 10 years)
[07:26] <calc> heh
[07:26] <neuro_> and he got quite snotty about my using neuro_ i must say!
[07:26] <SuperLag> has IRC been around for that long?
[07:26] <neuro_> SuperLag: being online and calling yourself "neuro" doesn't necessarily equate to irc :)
[07:27] <calc> SuperLag: for about 15-16 years now
[07:27] <neuro_> i.e. email, talkers, shell accounts, etc
[07:27] <calc> i used irc for ~ 10 years now
[07:27] <neuro_> talkers were more fun :)
[07:31] <TheMonoTone> I wish bugzilla were a little easier and quicker to report bugs to...
[07:31] <TheMonoTone> seems like I have to go through loops
[07:33] <neuro_> mmm, debbugs
[07:34] <WW_> TheMonoTone: File a bug about it :-)
[07:34] <neuro_> :))
[07:34] <WW_> TheMonoTone: (seriously!)
[07:38] <ionrock> I tried booting with acpi=force and I think there is an error loading the acpi module
[07:39] <ionrock> I did dmesg | grep acpi and I get a few linesthat don't make a lot of sense and then I get two lines that mention an unknown symbol. any ideas where to start tracking down the issue?
[07:45] <stratking> ok folks, any willing to help me out w/ another wireless problem?
[07:45] <stratking> i had an orinoco gold card that for whatever reason ubuntu wasn't detecting
[07:45] <stratking> so i tried it in knoppix and it still didn't work
[07:46] <stratking> i then borrowed my friends netgear ma401 which has worked w/ most distros we've tried
[07:46] <stratking> i threw it in the machine and the link light turns on which the orinoco never did
[07:46] <stratking> but still nothing, iwconfig doesn't show anything and cardinfo comes up w/ unsupported card
[07:47] <stratking> i figured what the hell and booted knoppix and cardinfo detected the card just fine and it automatically connected me to my network
[07:47] <stratking> anyone have any idea what might be going on?
[07:47] <stratking> please
[07:47] <stratking> :)
[07:49] <mwilson> Other than Ubunto isn't Knoppix?
[07:49] <SuperLag> mwilson: pfft :)
[07:49] <SuperLag> mwilson: you lurker, you :)
[07:49] <SuperLag> stratking: what card is it?
[07:49] <SuperLag> mwilson: how goes it?
[07:49] <stratking> yeah, i was just testing it to make sure it wasn't the card or something
[07:50] <stratking> its the netgear ma401
[07:50] <mwilson> SuperLag: <shrug> Just watching.
[07:51] <ionrock> I think I got the acpi issue for anyone that had helped... let you know in one sec
[07:52] <smeggy> Anyone know how I can connect to the X server in ubuntu remotely?
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> smeggy: you have to change the gdm options
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> to allow remote connection
[07:52] <HrdwrBoB> s
[07:52] <smeggy> I have installed OpenSSH, but when I try and connect It tells me "X: User not authorized to run X server, aborting."
[07:52] <smeggy> ahhh
[07:52] <smeggy> gdm didnt think of that
[07:53] <smeggy> how? :D
[07:54] <HrdwrBoB> hangon, what exactly are you trying to do?
[07:54] <mwilson> Hint... he's NOT trying to get a remote chooser.
[07:55] <smeggy> I want to run a remote X session from my Mac OSX box...
[07:55] <smeggy> I've done it before with other distros...
[07:55] <smeggy> I usually just do "ssh -l user host -X"
[07:55] <smeggy> then startx
[07:56] <HrdwrBoB> ssh -X enables X forwarding, startx starts the X server itself
[07:56] <smeggy> Yes.
[07:56] <HrdwrBoB> if you're connected via ssh and X forwarding is enabled, you should be able to simply run applications from there
[07:56] <smeggy> But I get "X: User not authorized to run the X server, aborting."
[07:57] <mwilson> I think he means he connects to a remote and enables forwarding, then starts the local X server.
[07:57] <smeggy> No..
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> smeggy: try 'gnome-session'
[07:57] <smeggy> I'm running an xserver locally, the remote box is ubuntu..
[07:57] <mwilson> Then why would you use startx?
[07:57] <smeggy> Same thing..
[07:57] <smeggy> I pasted it in the wrong order
[07:57] <HrdwrBoB> startx tries to start an X server - you're already running one locally, you don't need to use startx to start one on the ubuntu box
[07:58] <smeggy> I mean I startx on the local box...
[07:58] <smeggy> I was asking the question elsewhere before.
[07:58] <smeggy> Sorry :)
[07:58] <mwilson> smeggy: Then you ARE doing what I described, so why did you disagree?
[07:58] <smeggy> Sorry, it's been a long day..
[07:59] <smeggy> Heres what I'm doing: starting local x server, establishing ssh connection to remote ubuntu box, attempting to run an X app. I get ""X: User not authorized to run the X server, aborting.""
[07:59] <SNRGuest08> hey
[07:59] <HrdwrBoB> smeggy: even something like 'xterm'
[07:59] <smeggy> Yes HrdwrBoB
[08:00] <Lotmr> how would I re-run the x config tool
[08:00] <mwilson> Sounds more like forwarding is off.
[08:00] <Lotmr> i messed up my x in a attempt for dual montiors
[08:00] <smeggy> Forwarding is on in /etc/ssh/sshd_config
[08:00] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: dpkg-reconfigure xfree860-xserver
[08:00] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: dpkg-reconfigure xfree86-xserver
[08:00] <Lotmr> okay thanks
[08:00] <fabbione> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[08:01] <HrdwrBoB> yeah.. what he said
[08:01] <smeggy> me?
[08:01] <HrdwrBoB> no, wrt reconfig X
[08:01] <HrdwrBoB> smeggy: running xterm should not start X
[08:01] <Lotmr> command not found
[08:01] <Lotmr> or so it says
[08:02] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: you will have to prefix that with 'sudo'
[08:02] <HrdwrBoB> so it runs as root
[08:02] <RuffianSoldier> has anyone used a USB Compactflash card reader in linux?????
[08:02] <smeggy> The local box is Mac OSX..
[08:02] <HrdwrBoB> RuffianSoldier: yes
[08:02] <Lotmr> i missed an r
[08:02] <Lotmr> nm
[08:02] <mwilson> I suppose Ubunto could be so messed up that launching an X client would try to start a local X server.  RedHat used to do that once upon a time.
[08:02] <HrdwrBoB> mwilson: it's not
[08:03] <RuffianSoldier> HrdwrBoB, im not tlaking about a pocket USB drive, i mean a reader that you put your CompactFlash card
[08:03] <HrdwrBoB> RuffianSoldier: I know exactly what you are talking about.
[08:03] <RuffianSoldier> HrdwrBoB, is it a hard task to get working???
[08:03] <HrdwrBoB> and yes, I have
[08:03] <HrdwrBoB> no, it's trivual
[08:03] <HrdwrBoB> *trivial
[08:03] <RuffianSoldier> How tribial
[08:03] <RuffianSoldier> trivial
[08:04] <HrdwrBoB> jsut FYI, a pocket USB drive and a CF reader work in exactly the same way
[08:04] <RuffianSoldier> aight
[08:04] <RuffianSoldier> then i have hope
[08:04] <calc> i'm going to give the amd64 netinstall iso a try, maybe the kernel change last week fixed the problem for me
[08:05] <Lotmr> im still getting a no screen error
[08:05] <Lotmr> trying to start x
[08:06] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: past the output of X in #flood
[08:06] <HrdwrBoB> also, paste
[08:07] <RuffianSoldier> how small is damn small linux?
[08:08] <smeggy> ~50mb
[08:09] <bestadvocate_> about 50 megs
[08:09] <bestadvocate_> and i believe it all loads directly into ram
[08:10] <bestadvocate_> am i offline?
[08:11] <neuro_> if you are, then we must all be connected to your LAN :)
[08:11] <Lotmr> after  i fiddled with xconf a bit more i got xback working
[08:12] <Lotmr> is there easy way to setup 2 montiors on linux
[08:12] <Lotmr> a tool of somesort
[08:12] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: unfortunately not yet
[08:12] <HrdwrBoB> but I can help you
[08:12] <HrdwrBoB> I've done it several ways
[08:12] <Lotmr> well crapshait
[08:12] <Lotmr> awesome
[08:12] <bestadvocate_> :]  im getting my connection in odd waves
[08:12] <Lotmr> lemme switch back to the other comp now that i got x back up
[08:13] <Darknite> I am having a hard time getting remote computers to connect to my ubuntu box's printers
[08:13] <Darknite> any ideas
[08:13] <Darknite> btw I am using cups on them
[08:13] <mwilson> Define "hard time".
[08:13] <Lotmr> ok back
[08:14] <Lotmr> so where do i start
[08:14] <Darknite> mwilson, can not get it to work
[08:14] <bestadvocate_> say i was trying to get libdvdcss on this system, do you have to get another debian server to get a dvd player from apt-get?
 Does Ubuntu broadcast its printers?  I know it doesn't accept broadcasts.
[08:14] <HrdwrBoB> bestadvocate_: http://hpisi.nerim.net/ your legality may vary
[08:14] <HrdwrBoB> use debian testing as the source
[08:15] <Lotmr> HrdwrBoB quick note
[08:15] <Darknite> hmmm
[08:15] <Lotmr> at this time my other monitor is wiggin out
[08:15] <Lotmr> so i turned off the screen
[08:15] <mwilson> Darknite: So you didn't look?
[08:15] <Lotmr> because what its doing not cant be healthy
[08:16] <Darknite> no I looked at the conf file and it looks like it broadcasts
[08:16] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: how so?
[08:16] <Lotmr> just the frequecy
[08:16] <Lotmr> its flashing red and orage
[08:16] <Lotmr> with splotches of diffrent colors in it
[08:16] <mwilson> Debian's CUPS package doesn't broadcast, so I imagine Ubuntu's doesn't either.
[08:17] <Lotmr> and when it flashes lines appear
[08:17] <HrdwrBoB> hrmn
[08:17] <HrdwrBoB> ok, what video ard(s) ar eyou using
[08:17] <Lotmr> a GeForce 4 4200
[08:17] <Lotmr> with a dvi adapter for 1 mon
[08:17] <HrdwrBoB> are you using the nvidia binary drivers from restricted?
[08:17] <Lotmr> er...i would assume no
[08:17] <Darknite> does ubuntu have a firewall enabled by default
[08:18] <Lotmr> 30 min ago this wasnt installed on here
[08:18] <Lotmr> this is my XP machine
[08:18] <t35t0r> iptables is the firewall
[08:18] <HrdwrBoB> Darknite: no, it's not required, because there are no open ports
[08:18] <bestadvocate_> thands HrdwrBoB, legality seems to be a less important issue now that ive stoped stealing windows copies :] 
[08:18] <t35t0r> iptables --flush
[08:18] <Lotmr> i installed linux to develop in Mono
[08:18] <HrdwrBoB> bestadvocate_:  :)
[08:18] <Lotmr> i have a true debian webserver though
[08:19] <Lotmr> so Hrdwr where do i start?
[08:19] <mwilson> Darknite: Well, that answers your question about whether or not it broadcasts.
[08:19] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: ok, start synaptic and grab nvidia-glx
[08:19] <HrdwrBoB> from restricted
[08:19] <HrdwrBoB> you'll also need linux-restricted-modules
[08:19] <Lotmr> how do i start synaptic
[08:19] <Lotmr> i usually use command line
[08:19] <Darknite> how can i make it accept print requests
[08:19] <Lotmr> apt-get install x
[08:20] <Lotmr> etc
[08:20] <HrdwrBoB> oh, well then edit /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:20] <HrdwrBoB> make sure restricted is in there
[08:20] <HrdwrBoB> and apt-get the packages
[08:20] <mwilson> Darknite: Alter the configuration, restart the daemon.
[08:20] <Lotmr> yeah unstable is in there
[08:21] <Darknite> still can not seem to get it to work or atleast the port is not showing up when i nmap the box
[08:21] <mwilson> Darknite: Yes, I believe he said that.
[08:21] <Lotmr> ok glx is installing
[08:22] <Darknite> did I miss something I did not hear anyone say anything but tell me that iptables was not enabled
[08:22] <Lotmr> E: Couldn't find package linux-restricted-modules
[08:22] <bestadvocate_> distrowatch posted a good article on how to go through this process, this is the first system i ever go my Nvidia's to work on thanks to it,
[08:22] <mwilson> Darknite: He told you there were no open ports.  Thus, CUPS is not listening.
[08:23] <Darknite> there just got the port to show up
[08:23] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: I think you'll need linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1
[08:23] <HrdwrBoB> apt-cache should show you what's available
[08:24] <Lotmr> -E: Couldn't find package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1
[08:24] <mwilson> How would firestarter open anything?  If you want an open port, run a daemon on it.
[08:24] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: give me a second
[08:25] <mwilson> It's not that iptables is doing all this restricting, there simply are no listeners.
[08:25] <|trey|> mwilson: afaik, by default, all incoming requests are denied... sorry if this is wrong?
[08:25] <bestadvocate_> right about here: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8407&page=4
[08:25] <ionrock> I have to say that ubuntu's default theme is is really nice. I haven't even thought about changing it. kudos to ubuntu and back to more important technical disscussion ;)
[08:25] <Lotmr> hey hrdwr you mean linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-3-386 - Non-free Linux 2.6.8.1 modules on 386
[08:25] <Lotmr> ?
[08:26] <HrdwrBoB> linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1-3-386
[08:26] <|trey|> mwilson: ahh, my mistake then
[08:26] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[08:26] <HrdwrBoB> that's correct
[08:26] <Lotmr> lol
[08:26] <HrdwrBoB> I just fount it :)
[08:26] <|trey|> blah, firestarter is still a nice tool for a desktop distro to include though  :)
[08:26] <Lotmr> ok hrdwr are yiu on here often?
[08:26] <HrdwrBoB> yep
[08:26] <Lotmr> i gotta go to sleep or else school will be hell for me tomorrow
[08:27] <mwilson> firestarter is serious overkill for Joe Sixpack.
[08:27] <Lotmr> im going to let this download overnight
[08:27] <Lotmr> meet you here tomorrow 4:30 PST
[08:27] <Lotmr> pacific
[08:27] <Lotmr> okay?
[08:27] <HrdwrBoB> GMT what
[08:27] <HrdwrBoB> I don't know all the timezones on earth, give it to me in GMT :)
[08:27] <HrdwrBoB> I am in GMT-10
[08:27] <mwilson> Hell, even firehol is overkill for Joe Sixpack.
[08:27] <HrdwrBoB> it's currently 4:27pm
[08:28] <|trey|> mwilson: hmmm, I thought it was about as basic as it could be while still being useful... 
[08:28] <RuffianSoldier> its 2:27 where i live
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: apart from being entirely pointless
[08:28] <|trey|> Fedora's Firewall tool for instance is kinda useless imo...
[08:28] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: ?
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> all a firewall tool will do is confuse people and stop them from doing things they want to
[08:28] <mwilson> That goes along with Fedora being kinda useless.
[08:28] <RuffianSoldier> ITs 11:28 Pacific time right now HrdwrBoB
[08:28] <|trey|> mwilson: never tried firehol?
[08:28] <HrdwrBoB> if you want a firewall tool, install one
[08:29] <HrdwrBoB> Lotmr: ok, it's highly likely I will be here :)
[08:29] <|trey|> mwilson: bah... its hardly different from Ubuntu  :/
[08:29] <HrdwrBoB> RuffianSoldier: thank you
[08:29] <mwilson> |trey|: Uh, *I* was the one who mentioned firehol, so obviously I've "tried" it.
[08:29] <Lotmr> oh well
[08:29] <RuffianSoldier> HrdwrBoB,NP
[08:29] <Lotmr> okay cya hrdwr
[08:29] <Lotmr> thx
[08:29] <mwilson> |trey|: I'm not running Ubuntu, either.
[08:29] <HrdwrBoB> hardly different?
[08:30] <HrdwrBoB> have you ever used fedora?
[08:30] <|trey|> mwilson: bad wording... meant "never tried firehol, whats it like" hence the question mark... sorry...
[08:30] <mwilson> He said it, not me.
[08:30] <pyramid> mwilson, what are you running?
[08:30] <pyramid> mwilson, if you are not running ubuntu.
[08:31] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: yes I have used it... FC3 is also GNOME 2.8, also kernel 2.6.8... whats so different?
[08:31] <HrdwrBoB> the entire design and philosphy?
[08:31] <|trey|> Other then visually, and package handling, they are not different...
[08:32] <HrdwrBoB> .. and the aqueducts
[08:32] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: huh?
[08:32] <|trey|> Todd_MA_1975: don't use IRC as root
[08:34] <|trey|> mwilson: you should check out Ubuntu... quite fast... and very logical (albeit kinda bloated compared to how your system probably is)
[08:34] <pyramid> i can't get over how all this stuff is such pure garbage...full of bugs...no wonder it is free.
[08:35] <mwilson> |trey|: Did I say I hadn't "checked it out"?  And please don't make determinations about my own systems.
[08:35] <pyramid> no one in their right mind would pay one dime for this kind of garbage
[08:35] <|trey|> mwilson: I know you use OpenBox etc... much smaller then GNOME  :/
[08:36] <pyramid> no wonder everyone wants MS
[08:36] <|trey|> pyramid: many people would... let me remind you you are using a beta software... its not even released yet.
[08:36] <HrdwrBoB> pyramid: take your trolling garbage elsewhere
[08:37] <SuperLag> pyramid: wow.  such an exceptionally bold troll
[08:37] <SuperLag> be gone
[08:37] <mwilson> Man, I've had him on ignore all day... what am I missing?
[08:37] <pyramid> Hrdwr_BoB, i will be glad to leave..you demons deserve your own fate.
[08:37] <Se7h> openbox ?
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> correct
[08:37] <HrdwrBoB> now leave us to be demons
[08:37] <mwilson> Se7h: A window manager.
[08:37] <|trey|> mwilson: nothing, he thinks beta products should be perfect or something...
[08:37] <Se7h> yeah
[08:37] <Se7h> but...is it good?
[08:38] <mwilson> Define "good".
[08:38] <|trey|> Se7h: ever used Flux/blackbox? kinda simular...
[08:38] <Se7h> yeah
[08:38] <Se7h> hmmm
[08:38] <mwilson> Actually, quite dissimilar, other than that they all manage windows.
[08:39] <|trey|> mwilson: eh... nitpickiness is lame... for all intensive purposes, to look at each, most couldn't tell the difference...
[08:40] <aj> (intents and purposes)
[08:40] <mwilson> |trey|: Most couldn't tell the difference between metacity and blackbox, either.  Does that make them the same?
[08:40] <|trey|> Actually, I think OpenBox started using GTK? if thats true, it might be vastly different today... last I used it though, I had to look for differences...
[08:40] <mwilson> Uh, no, openbox has never used any toolkit.
[08:40] <neuro_> ooh, ubuntu just made a lovely login noise at me
[08:40] <neuro_> (first time i've installed it on a machine with sound :)
[08:41] <|trey|> mwilson: my bad then, coulda sworn someone said it was going to gtk  :/
 I did not start this discussion, I am no longer participating in this discussion.
[08:42] <|trey|> mwilson: all you had to say was '|trey|: shut up, thanks'... I am pretty good at following instuction  :)
[08:42] <smeggy> |trey|, dance! :D
[08:42] <Se7h> neuro_ lolol
[08:42] <Se7h> ubuntu rokx
[08:42] <Se7h> ;)
[08:42] <|trey|> smeggy: already was  :o
[08:43] <|trey|> well, kinda  :/
[08:43] <smeggy> :P
[08:45] <mwilson> By the time I got done peeling all the annoyances out of Ubuntu, there'd be no point in using it.  It's like the people I've seen in here today asking how to install KDE on it.  If that's what you want, why are you using it in the first place...
[08:45] <smeggy> Ubuntu is perfect for me :)
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> this is somewhat tru
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> e
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> at least until hoary
[08:45] <HrdwrBoB> when KDE moves into supported
[08:46] <mwilson> That's too bad... so what makes it different will die out.
[08:46] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: Answer me this, why would you want a distro that is filled with leading people from GNOME working on KDE?
[08:47] <mwilson> Considering KDE's market share, I'm surprised.
[08:47] <|trey|> Makes no sense... would be like Kalyxo working on GNOME  :/
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: answer me this, why would you not want to support the other major desktop environment
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I didn't say working on
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> I said supported
[08:47] <smeggy> Which has a larger user base KDE or GNOME?
[08:47] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: Because choice confuses morons
[08:47] <Se7h> hmm, i im reading something here about iDesk being good for openbox for ie
[08:47] <mwilson> s/other//
[08:47] <Se7h> giving the desktop some icons
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: they don't get a choice unless they specifically install kde
[08:47] <HrdwrBoB> and reconfigure things to use it
[08:48] <|trey|> Then whats the point even including it?
[08:48] <HrdwrBoB> *Sigh*
[08:48] <mwilson> I thought one of the reasons for Ubuntu's existence was as a Gnome mouthpiece?
[08:48] <|trey|> I say stick to what you do best, users of Ubuntu shouldn't be wanting KDE, its a GNOME distro...
[08:48] <mwilson> Gods know Gnome could certainly use one.
[08:48] <smeggy> Which has a larger user base KDE or GNOME? Anyone know?
[08:48] <HrdwrBoB> smeggy: afaik, GNOME
[08:49] <|trey|> smeggy: in corporations, GNOME, at home, KDE
[08:49] <hazmat> kde
[08:49] <HrdwrBoB> KDE is... dwindling
[08:49] <mwilson> KDE does.
[08:49] <Todd_MA_1975> Question:  I noticed that ndiswrapper just got added into the package tree.  From a new install will I be able to install this ndiswrapper (let it figure out the kernel source/headers dependencies)?  Then just be able to do a ndiswrapper -i xxxxxxx.inf, modprobe ndiswrapper, etc...?
[08:49] <smeggy> Interesting... I would have guessed different, HrdwrBoB..
[08:49] <_ranman_> Why would you follow who has a larger user base?
[08:49] <mwilson> Look at what the distributions are doing.
[08:49] <HrdwrBoB> GNOME makes a lot more sense than KDE now
[08:49] <|trey|> mwilson: corporations aren't using KDE though...
[08:49] <smeggy> I'm not following, I'm just wondering.
[08:49] <_ranman_> Seems gnome to me is more for the office..
[08:49] <HrdwrBoB> not really
[08:49] <mwilson> |trey|: Corporations aren't significantly using Linux, either.
[08:50] <|trey|> mwilson: true also..
[08:50] <_ranman_> I find that mutimedia, works better in KDE..
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> I use gnome everywhere, but sysadmins != users
[08:50] <smeggy> I'm pretty DE agnostic really.
[08:50] <hazmat> lets try it another way, what do the majority of the major distros ship with
[08:50] <_ranman_> It is more a matter of opinion, and choice..
[08:50] <smeggy> I'm equally at home in either.  Though I prefer Gnome/GTKs look.
[08:50] <|trey|> GNOME has better support today though, this is the primary reasoning it being more popular in corporations...
[08:50] <mwilson> hazmat: KDE
[08:50] <hazmat> mandrake, lindows, suse, connectiva -> kde
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: it's also a lot more logical
[08:50] <HrdwrBoB> and wholistic
[08:51] <|trey|> mwilson: umm... Mandrake is the only distro you can consider as major that ships KDE...
[08:51] <smeggy> Suse is pretty major...
[08:51] <hazmat> is redhat the only major distro that ships gnome?
[08:51] <hazmat> er. as default
[08:51] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: That is debateable, but lets not start a flame war  :)
[08:51] <mwilson> Gnome spent too much time on technical excellence and got passed by the touchy-feely morons.  Maybe they can get that back, maybe they can't.
[08:51] <|trey|> smeggy: SUSE is as good as dead, Novell Linux Desktop uses GNOME...
[08:52] <smeggy> I guess..
[08:52] <|trey|> s/uses/defaults to/
[08:52] <mwilson> hang out in user fora... all the questions are KDE-this, and KDE-that.
[08:53] <mwilson> So Ubuntu giving up its major point-of-difference seems like a bad idea.
[08:54] <hazmat> the ubuntu user mailing list has an insane amount of traffic
[08:54] <mwilson> hazmat: It's new, the clueless are still swarming over it.
[08:54] <|trey|> mwilson: that I agree... wouldn't feel right if KDE were shipped in Ubuntu's main  :/
[08:55] <opi^work> |trey|: but users are the one who should select what's good for them
[08:55] <opi^work> |trey|: you dislike KDE? fine. Others don't.
[08:55] <mwilson> opi^work: Not hardly.
[08:55] <Todd_MA_1975> Can anybody help with ndiswrapper questions?
[08:56] <|trey|> opi^work: but a user that wants KDE shouldn't even be considering Ubuntu
[08:56] <hazmat> opi^work, agreed
[08:56] <|trey|> opi^work: no actually, its my prefered DE...
[08:56] <opi^work> but we should provide that option
[08:56] <|trey|> I wouldn't want to install it on Ubuntu though
[08:56] <hazmat> they appeal to different people.. playing desktop wars isn't productive.. 
[08:56] <opi^work> hazmat: true
[08:56] <mwilson> Users don't get to make decisions like that.
[08:56] <|trey|> Ubuntu is a GNOME distro, losing that means losing Ubuntu's image imo
[08:57] <opi^work> I don't fight about distros, I kinda dislike bitching on others :)
[08:57] <deFrysk> exept for mandrake ?
[08:57] <deFrysk> ;p
[08:57] <_ranman_> trey, what is the meaning of Ubunu?
[08:57] <opi^work> Ubuntu's GNOME distro? Fine :)
[08:57] <cybernout> so how do i manually install deb packages?
[08:57] <deFrysk> dpkg -i
[08:58] <opi^work> _ranman_: good point :D
[08:58] <HrdwrBoB> cybernout: you can use dpkg -i, however you shouldn't need to
[08:58] <cybernout> you mean all packages are there?
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> lots are installed by default
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> once the system is installed
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> you can run the synaptic package manager to install new packages
[08:59] <cybernout> ok, :)
[08:59] <_ranman_> Just don't ask for KDE... haha
[08:59] <mwilson> Does Ubuntu ship aptitude as well, or just synaptic?
[08:59] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[08:59] <|trey|> _ranman_: "a person is a person through other people" this describes a community, the communities Ubuntu is a part of is Debian and GNOME.
[09:00] <|trey|> mwilson: both
[09:00] <opi^work> it's time for mug of coffee
[09:00] <opi^work> and some work :/
[09:00] <mwilson> Wow... that's too bad.
[09:00] <neuro_> it's always time for a mug of coffee
[09:00] <|trey|> mwilson: how come?
[09:00] <opi^work> neuro_: or two ;)
[09:00] <neuro_> :)
[09:00] <_ranman_> haha.. trey, took awhile to come up with a good answer..
[09:00] <|trey|> _ranman_: wanted to quote the site  :/
[09:01] <mwilson> aptitude being broken, especially compared to synaptic
[09:01] <|trey|> mwilson: at no point does it ever make you use aptitude though..
[09:01] <mwilson> Users'll love that the first time they mix the two.
[09:01] <opi^work> I just stick with apt-get ;)
[09:01] <|trey|> its just that tasksel depends it, thus so does the installer...
[09:01] <cybernout> how do i install the flashplug-in?
[09:02] <mwilson> |trey|: synaptic is certainly nothing special, but aptitude has fundamental problems.
[09:02] <|trey|> cybernout: add 'deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian sid contrib non-free' to your sources.list and type "apt-get update && apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree'
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> .. or not
[09:03] <|trey|> mwilson: so far, I am not liking synaptic at all... its kinda illogical imo... still sticking to tried and true apt-get...
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> flashplayer-mozilla
[09:03] <HrdwrBoB> install that
[09:04] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: umm, care to point him at the repo containing that? cuz uhh, its not in Ubuntu...
[09:04] <HrdwrBoB> crap, wrong machine
[09:04] <_ranman_> How is synaptic illogical for large installs?
[09:04] <HrdwrBoB> my mistake
[09:04] <|trey|> (you're getting it from marralats site)
[09:04] <HrdwrBoB> yeah I was on a different machine
[09:04] <|trey|> _ranman_: If I can't figure out how to upgrade all packages within 5 mins, its illogical...
[09:05] <joem> mark all upgrades is pretty straight forward
[09:05] <|trey|> joem: not so much  :/
[09:05] <_ranman_> ic... maybe he wants to download all in 5 minutes...
[09:06] <joem> what is confusing about that phrase
[09:06] <_ranman_> Get off of AOL..
[09:06] <joem> it has the words upgrade all
[09:06] <|trey|> joem: like I said, I was sat there for 5 mins before I was able to upgrade packages...
[09:06] <|trey|> illogical
[09:06] <|trey|> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade is logical
[09:06] <_ranman_> haha..
[09:06] <|trey|> _ranman_: /whois |trey| 
[09:07] <_ranman_> usually I like to inspect what I am upgrading.. 
[09:07] <neuro_> apt-get -u upgrade then :)
[09:08] <|trey|> neuro_: surely you mean apt-get -s upgrade?
[09:08] <|trey|> as in simulate?
[09:08] <AfC> Is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/live-i386.iso the LiveCD? If so, is that the one to download, or is there a newer one, etc? Sorry if it's FAQ, but the FAQ doesn't link to a download...
[09:08] <|trey|> AfC: I would guess so...
[09:09] <|trey|> AfC: I would ask mdz if I was you, he is working on it... he said there was a new one going out today I think... not sure if thats it...
[09:10] <mwilson> Hm, are there actually images later than the 15-Sep ones?
[09:11] <jedi> there are the dailies
[09:11] <jedi> http://archive.ubuntu.com/cdimage/daily/current/
[09:11] <_ranman_> Does it matter if there is a newer CD? 
[09:11] <jedi> nah, just apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:11] <mwilson> No, someone asked me and I didn't know.
[09:12] <_ranman_> That is what I thought...
[09:12] <mwilson> The original image was enough for me to fiddle with.
[09:12] <|trey|> mwilson: apparently there are nightly builds... also, each new install gets the newest packages anyways...
[09:13] <mwilson> |trey|: Hardly.  I installed off the 15-Sep ISO today, and therefore, got what was on the 15-Sep image.
[09:13] <|trey|> mwilson: on the ReleaseSchedule from wiki: Sounder = new builds
[09:13] <HrdwrBoB> sounder was the pre-release testers
[09:13] <HrdwrBoB> there are currently nightly builds
[09:14] <|trey|> mwilson: bah... gaim then was 0.82.1, you will note you now have 1.0.0, firefox got upgraded, and menu got tweaked... these are obvious changes I have noted during fresh installs...
[09:14] <AfC> I know about the dailies, but they seem to be for the regular install-to-disk pre-release builds. Just wanted to see if someone would suggest which  livecd would be best to download
[09:14] <|trey|> mwilson: I installed first the day it was announced, and have installed 2 times since...
[09:14] <HrdwrBoB> AfC: the liveCDs are built by hand
[09:14] <HrdwrBoB> and I think that's the latest one
[09:14] <jedi> AfC: sorry, dailies thing was addressed to mwilson 
[09:14] <mwilson> |trey|: Uh, no, how would I have anything later than what was on the image, or aren't you listening?
[09:14] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: the ReleaseSchedule notes there are more coming  :/
[09:15] <|trey|> mwilson: umm... k, well I don't install from the CD  :/
[09:15] <AfC> HrdwrBoB: [yeah - I've built a LiveCD before - was working with Morphix that go - I know how hard and finicky it can be] 
[09:15] <|trey|> Never do  :/
[09:15] <AfC> jedi: np
[09:15] <HrdwrBoB> |trey|: hm, possibly, in any case, a sounder CD is essentially a daily that is picked for some testing
[09:15] <cybernout> oh, i seem to be able to install flashplayer plugin by just clicking
[09:15] <|trey|> I don't recall there being anything I did to change that though...
[09:15] <cybernout> the plugin for firefox on the website
[09:15] <mwilson> |trey|: Ubuntu isn't something I'm going to use, there was no reason to update the box.
[09:15] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: look at the ReleaseSchedule, then come back and argue if I am wrong.
[09:15] <cybernout> now thats easy
[09:16] <|trey|> mwilson: umm, ok... why are you still here then?
[09:16] <jedi> hehe
[09:16] <mwilson> |trey|: To see what's going on.
[09:16] <mwilson> |trey|: You advocate digging a hole and covering yourself up?
[09:16] <|trey|> mwilson: planet.ubuntulinux.org is more enlightening  :/
[09:17] <|trey|> mwilson: personal attacks are not welcome, thankyou for taking the time to come up with one though...
[09:18] <AfC> |trey|: any idea where/when I might find mdz?
[09:18] <mwilson> |trey|: Really.  Describe this "personal attack" please... take your time.  I'll wait.
[09:18] <|trey|> He's here fairly often, he will come back eventually...
[09:18] <_ranman_> trey:but attacks against KDE are welcome though?
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> step a) stfu
[09:19] <mwilson> |trey|: Unless being quite up-front in saying that Ubuntu isn't for me is a personal attack...
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> steb c) profit
[09:19] <|trey|> mwilson: put downs of any kind that do not explicitly prove me wrong....
[09:19] <HrdwrBoB> moving along
[09:20] <|trey|> mwilson: I'll help:  "<mwilson> |trey|: You advocate digging a hole and covering yourself up?"
[09:20] <|trey|> Unnecissary.
[09:20] <mwilson> I'm interested in how that's a put-down.
[09:21] <|trey|> You are eluding to the fact you don't think I deserve to be living, irrelivant to anything of relivence
[09:21] <_ranman_> mwilson: He has a thing about holes..
[09:21] <_ranman_> haha, trey really does not like holes..
[09:21] <jedi> hehe
[09:22] <|trey|> _ranman_: shut up, thanks
[09:22] <cybernout> whats the topic?
[09:22] <_ranman_> Trey: I think that you misunderstood..
[09:22] <mwilson> |trey|: I am?  I think it's much more likely that I was using a metaphor similar to the classic one of sticking your head in the sand and hoping the world goes away.
[09:22] <jedi> cybernout: /topic :)
[09:22] <_ranman_> I think that was a referal to gettin yourself in trouble..
[09:22] <mwilson> |trey|: But you go ahead and enjoy your insecurity.
[09:22] <cybernout> strange world...
[09:23] <mwilson> (btw... THAT was a put-down)
[09:23] <jedi> it's getting warm in here
[09:23] <|trey|> mwilson: I don't understand how that is simular but ok... my remidy: /ignore
[09:23] <cybernout> why dont you freeciv / doom eachother...
[09:24] <Wal> hehe nice call cybernout
[09:24] <t35t0r> ut2k4 each other
[09:25] <|trey|> ugh @ people not knowing when to stfu
[09:25] <mwilson> I don't own any of those... they're all snoozes.
[09:25] <mwilson> The last decent FPS was D2.
[09:26] <SuperLag> what package contains maildirmake?
[09:26] <cybernout> or a game of chess...:P
[09:27] <mwilson> Hm, dailies have evocrap 2.01
[09:27] <mwilson> 2.0.1, rather
[09:28] <mwilson> I was surprised that Ubuntu makes the decision to not use Epiphany in favor of Firefox, but doesn't replace Evolution with Thunderbird.
[09:29] <cybernout> evolution is different
[09:29] <mwilson> You were ignoring me.
[09:29] <cybernout> its more mature and stable
[09:29] <SuperLag> GAH
[09:29] <cybernout> but you can install whatever you like
[09:29] <|trey|> cybernout: debateable, certainly a slightly cleaner interface though  :)
[09:30] <mwilson> cybernout: Well, it's not the usable vs unusable thing that Firefox vs Epiphany is, but I can't imagine why anyone would use Evolution if Thunderbird would suit.
[09:30] <cybernout> does any of you use an bttv card?
[09:30] <mwilson> I despise them both equally, it just surprised me.
[09:31] <cybernout> i am trying to do scantv, but it fails 
[09:31] <cybernout> vbi: open failed [/dev/vbi] 
[09:31] <cybernout> open /dev/vbi: No such file or directory
[09:31] <cybernout> at this point
[09:31] <_ranman_> evo 2.0 == exchange..
[09:31] <cybernout> any clue's? to what could case the problem?
[09:31] <mwilson> cybernout: Welcome to the fun of a dynamic /dev
[09:32] <mwilson> Oh, does Ubuntu incorporate the exchange connector?  Didn't know that.
[09:32] <_ranman_> Yes..
[09:32] <Se7h> does anyone use gdesklets?
[09:32] <cybernout> mwilson : explain please..
[09:33] <|trey|> Se7h: yes
[09:33] <_ranman_> Not on ubuntu..
[09:33] <_ranman_> Se7h
[09:33] <Se7h> yes?
[09:33] <mwilson> cybernout: Ubuntu uses udev.
 does anyone use gdesklets?
[09:33] <_ranman_> I had a libtop dep problem.. So no gdesklets for me..
[09:33] <_ranman_> Maybe I just fucked up..
[09:34] <Se7h> lol
[09:34] <Se7h> most like
[09:34] <Se7h> ;P
[09:34] <Se7h> |trey| the "yes?" was for _ranman_
[09:34] <|trey|> eh, he's on ignore too  :/
[09:34] <_ranman_> So I can say bad things about trey, and he will not see?
[09:35] <_ranman_> That is unfair..
[09:35] <mwilson> cybernout: So you're an unwilling participant in the "my /dev is emptier than yours" contest.
[09:35] <jedi> hehe
[09:35] <cybernout> well, no go ahead
[09:36] <mwilson> cybernout: Now you get to figure out what random incantation to udev/hotplug is necessary to get it to create the device nodes you need.
[09:36] <_ranman_> What is really funny is that I got ignored over a hole..
[09:36] <cybernout> i just installed it an hour ago
[09:36] <smeggy> hmm.. i thought warty was frozen?
[09:36] <smeggy> whats with all these updates appearing O.o
[09:36] <|trey|> smeggy: not yet
[09:37] <Se7h> aaah
[09:37] <smeggy> not yet?
[09:37] <cybernout> i came from knoppix ( with /dev/ filled )
[09:37] <Se7h> gdesklets uses xml
[09:37] <Se7h> ;P
[09:37] <Se7h> gkrellm is more simple
[09:37] <Se7h> ;P
[09:37] <mwilson> cybernout: My junk box has a bttv card in it... Ubuntu knew it was there but I didn't have any reason to try playing with it to see if it'd loaded support for it.
[09:38] <cybernout> ok, well xawtv works, but i need to manually insert all the frueq
[09:38] <|trey|> smeggy: October 6 is total freeze...
[09:38] <|trey|> so tomorrow  :)
[09:39] <|trey|> Uhh, 18th even
[09:39] <mwilson> I need to take that card out of there... it was for the PVR I never found a reason to build.
[09:39] <|trey|> Or 20th... although its under Oct 18th  :/
[09:39] <cybernout> but i could always import the list from debian, the test i am running is to see if ubuntu is usefull for first time users
[09:40] <|trey|> Says "FullFreeze"  :/
[09:40] <|trey|> Right now, all we're seeing is bug fixes etc...
[09:40] <cybernout> what kind of installer is used by ubuntu? 
[09:41] <|trey|> Se7h: gdesklets looks nicer though  :)
[09:41] <mwilson> cybernout: It should be, as long as you have someone competent set it up for them... same as any other distribution.
[09:41] <|trey|> cybernout: d-i
[09:41] <mwilson> cybernout: It looks like d-i.
[09:41] <|trey|> cybernout: look at the screenshots linked to on the site... it shows every screen you will see..
[09:41] <mwilson> cybernout: So it has all of d-i's warts, like hardware detect that you can't disable.
[09:41] <Se7h> |trey| its looks is costomizeble
[09:41] <smeggy> ahh
[09:41] <smeggy> thanks |trey|
[09:42] <smeggy> it'd be nice if updates to things like firefox could still be provided after the freeze heh
[09:42] <|trey|> Se7h: to an extent, sure... I like the looks of the sysinfo gdesklet... I forget its name though... almost fullscreen here...
[09:42] <mwilson> Firefox changes THAT often?
[09:42] <mwilson> I don't use it, I don't pay attention to it.
[09:43] <cybernout> yes very often ( for security reasons right? )
[09:43] <smeggy> security amongst other things
[09:43] <cybernout> bug fixes etc
[09:43] <mwilson> Somehow I doubt it's all that often.
[09:44] <mwilson> Oh, yes, after all it's vitally important to switch out one X implementation for another that's almost exactly the same.
[09:44] <cybernout> hmm, armagetron ( the game ) has no sound...
[09:44] <smeggy> Yes! :D
[09:45] <smeggy> I just like the feeling that being up to date gives ;)

[09:45] <cybernout> i will have to make my own noise..:P
[09:45] <|trey|> smeggy: I just hate the feeling not being up to date brings... apt-get has spoiled me...
[09:45] <|trey|> cybernout: good luck with that  :)
[09:45] <|trey|> record it so you can laugh later  :)
[09:45] <smeggy> Same |trey|.. (damnit can't you get rid of the first |, its hard to type :P)
[09:46] <cybernout> vroooooooooom
[09:46] <|trey|> smeggy: nope... most other combo's are taken  :(
[09:46] <smeggy> bah :P
[09:46] <|trey|> smeggy: besides thats all you have to type usually, so its not so bad...
[09:47] <cybernout> all in all ubuntu is nice, really, but it can use some improvement ( dont all distro's? )
[09:47] <|trey|> cybernout: can't*
[09:47] <HrdwrBoB> cybernout: this is why the developers haven't stopped working on it :)
[09:47] <mwilson> cybernout: File bugs, then.
[09:47] <HrdwrBoB> anyway, bbl
[09:47] <|trey|> cybernout: true enough... its in a beta stage right now though...
[09:47] <smeggy> I think it really needs forums! :P
[09:48] <cybernout> then its rather good..if its an beta
[09:48] <|trey|> smeggy: its getting them  :)
[09:48] <smeggy> I know.
[09:48] <smeggy> But I'm impatient :P
[09:48] <|trey|> cybernout: what did you think "Preview Release" meant?  ;)
[09:48] <didar_real> hey people I have a question about shipit
[09:48] <cybernout> right now i am developing for knoppix..thats also alway's beta..:P
[09:48] <smeggy> who are the devs in here anyway? other than jdub..?
[09:48] <didar_real> could someone help me?
[09:49] <mwilson> Knoppix has developers?
[09:49] <cybernout> lots
[09:49] <smeggy> Just ask your question didar_real and if someone can help they will..
[09:49] <mwilson> Or people that'll admit to being developers for it?
[09:49] <didar_real> ok
[09:49] <mwilson> Surprising.
[09:49] <smeggy> lol
[09:49] <didar_real> I went to shipit.ubuntulinux.org and put in my Address
[09:49] <didar_real> ...for the CDs to be shipped
[09:49] <mwilson> Isn't that like admitting you're a Gentoo developer?
[09:49] <didar_real> How do I come to know of the status?
[09:50] <|trey|> cybernout: Ubuntu has a pretty good level of entry for Maintainers also... you may want to think about helping out  :)
[09:50] <smeggy> Gentoo is hilarious.
[09:50] <|trey|> didar_real: the day Ubuntu is released, they will ship.
[09:50] <smeggy> Its the most loved and hated distro in the free software world.
[09:50] <|trey|> smeggy: its really not though
[09:50] <didar_real> ohhhh, ok
[09:50] <didar_real> Thanks
[09:50] <smeggy> Its not?
[09:51] <cybernout> for an fast desktop use yoper
[09:51] <|trey|> smeggy: the people that talk about loving it are just bored waiting on something to compile... and those that hate it got sick of waiting for things to compile...
[09:51] <smeggy> lol |trey|
[09:51] <|trey|> cybernout: thats blasphemy!
[09:51] <cybernout> really ?
[09:51] <didar_real> Wow, this place seems to be like a school yard
[09:51] <smeggy> ubuntu is the fastest linux desktop I've had the pleasure of using/.
[09:52] <smeggy> didar_real, what do you mean?
[09:52] <|trey|> cybernout: most distro's contain the same types of speed tweaks yoper uses...
[09:52] <didar_real> No offence menat just a jibe :D
[09:52] <madduck> Mithrandir: found another bug in mailman. :)
[09:52] <cybernout> any way, thnx for the chat, i have to go to work
[09:52] <didar_real> everyone is one-upping their fav distros'
[09:52] <cybernout> bye and much luck with ubuntu..
[09:52] <smeggy> Is it just me, or does QT "feel" faster than GTK+?
[09:52] <cybernout> :)
[09:52] <didar_real> just the way "we
[09:53] <|trey|> didar_real: this is #ubuntu, any other distro simply shouldn't be brought up  ;)
[09:53] <cybernout> -linux=kernel - the rest is eye candy..:)
[09:53] <didar_real> kids" 
[09:53] <didar_real> well, in the heat of the moment "Viva la RedHat 9"
[09:53] <|trey|> smeggy: its not just you... however you shouldn't notice it so much in Ubuntu... they utilize some arguments to speed up startup etc...
[09:54] <smeggy> I see.
[09:54] <|trey|> didar_real: so you like using dead distro's?
[09:54] <didar_real> nope I just like ruffling other people a lil bit ;)
[09:54] <calc> i like slackware 2 better ;)
[09:55] <didar_real> I use Woody now
[09:55] <|trey|> didar_real: I actually like Fedora... perhaps more then Ubuntu, but RH9 is long dead  :/
[09:55] <|trey|> FC1 is as good as dead
[09:55] <|trey|> didar_real: Woody will be dead soon too...
[09:55] <didar_real> Well, I found simple goof-ups in RH9
[09:55] <didar_real> ...init scripts
[09:55] <Wal> FC2 is winding down now 2
[09:55] <|trey|> calc: grr @ you... it won't complete intalling packages here  :(
[09:56] <didar_real> Tried FC1, was good but preferred Debian
[09:56] <|trey|> Wal: nah, it still has 6 months left to live  :)
[09:56] <calc> |trey|: i was using the amd64 version, maybe i386 is broken?
[09:56] <smeggy> and Fedora Legacy will support it after that ;)
[09:56] <didar_real> yep
[09:56] <|trey|> calc: don't know, wouldn't make much sense, but see no other reason...
[09:56] <didar_real> Its nice to have choices and toys to mess with!
[09:57] <|trey|> smeggy: Fedora Legacy is basically "Hey look, if you can't figure out how to burn a CD, just use this and shut up, thanks"
[09:57] <smeggy> lol
[09:57] <didar_real> BTW, I've been a RH bigot for 5 years
[09:57] <calc> i'm going to test a netinstall of ubuntu to see if it works now
[09:57] <|trey|> calc: if you find one, let me know  :)
[09:57] <smeggy> I haven't seriously used RH since 7.something
[09:58] <jedi> it was downhill from there
[09:58] <|trey|> I started with 7.3, used every version other then 9...
[09:58] <didar_real> RH after 7.3 just went "whacko"
[09:58] <smeggy> I went too shiny after 7.3
[09:58] <smeggy> *it
[09:58] <smeggy> I didnt go shiny
[09:58] <jedi> haha
[09:58] <smeggy> as much as Id like to be shiny..
[09:58] <|trey|> didar_real: blah... Bluecurve is only recently being realized on other distro's...
[09:58] <didar_real> and empty underneath
[09:59] <smeggy> hey! :`(
[09:59] <smeggy> i think my hair is receding
[09:59] <smeggy> dont make me sad
[09:59] <|trey|> didar_real: blah... I'm liking it more and more with every release  :/
[09:59] <jedi> smeggy: woops, sorry ;)
[09:59] <|trey|> Auto Configuration of LVM2 volumes is great imo
[10:00] <|trey|> and the amount it hides from the user is great for a desktop based distro...
[10:00] <didar_real> Well, when you have a Pentium 166 w/ 32Mb RAM you look for...
[10:00] <|trey|> Users get scared when they read some of the stuff the system is doing during boot... I've seen it.
[10:00] <didar_real> ...the simple things in life
[10:00] <|trey|> didar_real: ahh... yeah, I would get a sledge hammer to that box, and make my way to Fry's...
[10:01] <didar_real> hey! get away from my box >:-|
[10:01] <|trey|> Worst box in this house is a 633  :/
[10:01] <didar_real> Its got sentimental value
[10:01] <|trey|> didar_real: put it up on your wall or something then... it should be retired from use!
[10:02] <didar_real> nah, it will make a great router/firewall
[10:02] <SuperLag> why doe configuring an e-mail server have to be such a bitch
[10:02] <didar_real> which e-mail server would that be?
[10:02] <mwilson> SuperLag: It isn't, particularly... you just have to know what you're doing.
[10:03] <|trey|> eh, my router alone is a 233  :/
[10:03] <|trey|> Thats about the minimum I would contemplate if I was setting up a box to do the same thing...
[10:04] <didar_real> Well, I can watch video w/o sound with mplayer compiled from source with optimisations to warp 9 on this baby ;)
[10:04] <|trey|> P1 > P2 was pretty noticeable imo
[10:04] <lypie> hugely so
[10:04] <lypie> ppro was the big one
[10:04] <jedi> yeah
[10:04] <lypie> nothing compares arch change wise
[10:04] <lypie> apart from the athlon and x64 :)
[10:05] <lypie> (yer sure p4 and ia64 were impressive in the lab, but look at the costs...)
[10:05] <|trey|> lypie: I want to use an Opteron machine... AMD64 didn't impress though  :/
[10:05] <didar_real> how does P w/ HT compare with AMD64?
[10:06] <lypie> didar_real: for what?
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> hm
[10:06] <didar_real> thats Pentium with HT
[10:06] <calc> didar_real: amd64 is about 30% faster from what i recall in 64bit mode over a 32bit p4 w/ht
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> is it normal for ubuntu disk resizer to be 0% until it's fnished
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> finished
[10:06] <|trey|> didar_real: aboutt he same I'd say.. most software still doesn't really utilize the extra 32bits of data  :/
[10:06] <calc> i sold my p4/ht after getting athlon64
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> |trey| the main boinus is in the kernel
[10:06] <lypie> yer
[10:06] <didar_real> oh the usual...surfing, chatting, word-processing, compiling, video processing...etc, etc
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> bonus
[10:06] <lypie> super fast memcpy's
[10:06] <HrdwrBoB> but it's significant
[10:07] <lypie> so make sure u have a properly optimised kernel :)
[10:07] <lypie> i guess that gcc doesn't make good use of it anyways
[10:07] <lypie> its not really known for good optimisation...
[10:07] <|trey|> HrdwrBoB: I was using Debian's ia64 or whatever kernel ....
[10:07] <lypie> in any case. most applications use int and presume 32bit :)
[10:07] <Se7h> erg
[10:07] <Se7h> sorry to desturb
[10:07] <Se7h> lol
[10:07] <lypie> lol
[10:07] <Se7h> but....gdesklets
[10:07] <calc> lypie: the extra regs are where most of the performance come from
[10:07] <Se7h> i mean
[10:08] <lypie> calc: yup
[10:08] <Se7h> at the repository comes also with a "data"
[10:08] <mwilson> What *is* the big deal you have with gdesklets?
[10:08] <lypie> calc: means a 10-15% decrease in binary size
[10:08] <Se7h> gdesklets is running
[10:08] <didar_real> so you are saying I shoud go for p4/ht or AMD64? I'm confused! :(
[10:08] <lypie> calc: iow, massive improvement in code cache utilisation
[10:08] <Se7h> i dont know what to do now
[10:08] <HrdwrBoB> didar_real amd64
[10:08] <lypie> didar_real: athlon
[10:08] <HrdwrBoB> get a PCIe board
[10:08] <HrdwrBoB> with a 939 socket
[10:09] <calc> didar_real: amd64, p4 are slower and use a hell of a lot more power
[10:09] <|trey|> Se7h: apt-get install gdesklets-data ... run it from menu once ... then run scripts in /usr/share/gdesklets/D[tab] 
[10:09] <calc> didar_real: see the recent tech report article linked by anandtech/slashdot/etc
[10:09] <|trey|> I forget what that word is, but thats what I typed I think
[10:09] <lypie> they'll have a new motherboard for the 64 arch's within 6 months and then your investment will be worthless
[10:09] <lypie> just buy a freakishly cheap athlon
[10:09] <didar_real> yeah I did read that
[10:09] <lypie> or better. get two :P
[10:09] <_ranman_> Se7h: gdesklets are like that... Karamba is better.. Go to the folder that the gdesklets data was installed into, and Go to Display, then find which one that you want go into the folder and click on the display.
[10:09] <lypie> s/sc/s c/
[10:10] <didar_real> lypie: od point
[10:10] <Mithrandir> hi calc
[10:10] <didar_real> lypie: good point
[10:10] <calc> one of them is just a cpu laying on the floor though, need to get a box to put it in
[10:10] <calc> Mithrandir: hi
[10:10] <lypie> didar_real: :P
[10:10] <|trey|> Se7h: actually, I think its /usr/lib/gdesklets ... something like that... dpkg -L gdesklets-data... where most of it went...
[10:10] <mwilson> Karamba requires KDE, which kind of defeats the purpose.
[10:10] <lypie> mwilson: gnome sucks anyways. use kde :) :P
[10:10] <calc> Mithrandir: i'm testing out the ubuntu MSI change on my laptop to see how it goes
[10:10] <calc> gnome is better :)
[10:10] <mwilson> lypie: Why would I use either one?
[10:10] <didar_real> TWM RULEZ!!!!!
[10:10] <|trey|> calc: shut it
[10:10] <_ranman_> haha, I forgot that mwilson and trey are the local KDE bouncers..
[10:11] <lypie> mwilson: i'm a console user so :P
[10:11] <calc> but i don't know since i maintain kde :)
[10:11] <lypie> calc: :P
[10:11] <mwilson> How am I a "KDE bouncer"?
[10:11] <|trey|> calc: a kde maintainer should not say gnome is better in public [angryface] 
[10:11] <Se7h> |trey| yeah, the data file i have it
[10:11] <calc> |trey|: heh
[10:11] <_ranman_> bounce anyone that speaks of KDE..
[10:11] <Se7h> ok i see the gdesklets files
[10:11] <didar_real> ooooh that was a major boo-boo
[10:11] <Se7h> but now, how do i run them '
[10:11] <Se7h> ?
[10:11] <lypie> |trey|: kde user then? :)
[10:12] <|trey|> Se7h: go there and start typing ./something/thescript
[10:12] <_ranman_> Se7h dounble click on a .desklets file..
[10:12] <jblack> trey: leaving asside the argument of whether kde or gnome is "better", its a flaw to not recognize the features of the other one in some misguided attempt for loyalty.
[10:12] <calc> it looks like the MSI fix fixed my laptop, so i will try to find out why the redhat kernel works fine with MSI
[10:12] <|trey|> lypie: I switch off between XFCE4, GNOME, KDE, and fluxbox  :/
[10:12] <lypie> |trey|: all nice :) though i don't really like xfce4 in fact
[10:13] <didar_real> IceWM works for me
[10:13] <lypie> jblack: nod
[10:13] <|trey|> lypie: fast GTK environment... with right click application menu  :)
[10:13] <calc> mdz: awake?
[10:13] <didar_real> I just fire up X for FreeCIV anyway
[10:13] <lypie> |trey|: yer seen it. just a bit too basic for me
[10:13] <mwilson> jblack: They have different focuses... Gnome is about technical excellence, KDE is about moron-appeal.
[10:13] <lypie> mwilson: obviously you have no clue :)
[10:13] <jblack> mwilson: Oh, I disagree. 
[10:13] <|trey|> lypie: eh... its actually very feature rich...
[10:13] <mwilson> jblack: Sadly, there are many more morons than people who care about technical excellence.
[10:13] <lypie> gnome is about companies (moron appeal)
[10:13] <didar_real> lypie: just apply a bikini-cald babe as the wallpaper and see..
[10:13] <_ranman_> oops, who got mwilson talking about kde again...
[10:13] <lypie> mwilson: ever coded for either?
[10:13] <jblack> There's some good reasons that I'm using KDE rather than gnome.
[10:14] <|trey|> mwilson: bugger off back to #debian (still on ignore, don't talk back, I won't see it)
[10:14] <lypie> ok
[10:14] <Se7h> AHHH
[10:14] <Se7h> i got it
[10:14] <Se7h> i had to run with..
[10:14] <lypie> didar_real: lol btw
 Yes, stating an opinion is certainly a troll.
[10:14] <lypie> mwilson: when you have no clue. yes
[10:15] <calc> erm if i select LVM on a drive that already has a partition reserved for lvm will it use it correctly?
[10:15] <lypie> mwilson: your the one drawn in by the blathering idiots at ximian
[10:15] <jblack> mwilson: For me, there are two pivotal issues. 1) arts lets me specify the bitrate for my sound card, which is important because without the right bitrate, no sound from my docking station.
[10:15] <lypie> mwilson: i'm the kde coder thats read 20% of gnomes cvs
[10:15] <|trey|> lypie: wtg @ ignoring him  [angryface] 
[10:15] <didar_real> mwilson: Thats what is "the new world order"
[10:15] <lypie> |trey|: how do i ignore in xchat ?
[10:15] <jblack> The other is that KDE has pretty good support for dualhead support. As far as I know, gnome hasn't gotten there yet.
[10:15] <_ranman_> uhoh, now lypie is speaking agains Gnome.. War ensues...
[10:15] <|trey|> calc: I guess thats the idea...
[10:15] <lypie> |trey|: i get this wierd shit message :)
[10:15] <mwilson> lypie: Oh, then Gnome *didn't* screw things up for their 2.0 release by insisting on technical changes at the expense of their users?  My mistake... I guess all the publicity they got about that was all in my mind.
[10:15] <|trey|> lypie: /ignore him all
[10:15] <lypie> ah :)
[10:15] <_ranman_> lypie, trey is using Gaim..
[10:15] <lypie> thanks |trey| :)
[10:16] <didar_real> battlestations everyone
[10:16] <lypie> is gaim a good irc prog?
[10:16] <|trey|> calc: it should find the volumes and use them correctly at least  :)
[10:16] <Treenaks> mwilson: which you could turn off if you wanted...
[10:16] <Wal> lypie no way
[10:16] <|trey|> lypie: its adequate, sure... depends how much of an IRC junkie you are  :)
[10:16] <Treenaks> mwilson: and which are way easier for new users
[10:16] <lypie> |trey|: i'm a irssi user usually :P
[10:16] <mwilson> Treenaks: How could you turn off what didn't exist, according to lypie?
[10:17] <Wal> |trey|, well said 
[10:17] <lypie> ummm
[10:17] <lypie> lol
[10:17] <Treenaks> mwilson: don't complain, or don't use gnome.. it's easy
[10:17] <lypie> why am i seeing mwilson still?
[10:17] <Treenaks> lypie: /ignore nick all
[10:17] <lypie> xchat seriously sucks
[10:17] <lypie> Treenaks: i did :|
[10:17] <mwilson> Treenaks: Not complaining, it's a simple statement of fact.
[10:17] <lypie>  mwilson added to ignore list.
[10:17] <didar_real> gotta go ...was nice chatting with you all
[10:17] <didar_real> bye
[10:17] <lypie> but it didn't work...
[10:17] <Treenaks> mwilson: it sounds like complaining to me
[10:17] <afreak> mwilson, whiner
[10:17] <jblack> mwilson: Something doesn't become a fact just because you say its a fact. ;)
[10:17] <_ranman_> Treenaks, mwilson == Gnome, && lypie == KDE..
[10:18] <|trey|> lypie: but how much of its features do you use? if you only use basic commands, and don't utilize scripts... gaim's irc will function just fine... and it has the added bonus of adding IRC users to your contact list...
[10:18] <Wal> doesnt have any scripting fectures
[10:18] <mwilson> _ranman_: Excuse me?
[10:18] <lypie> _ranman_: i know the facts he reads the publicists :)
[10:18] <calc> cool it does use real MB which really makes it confusing for newbies which see the regular partition program which uses the ieee bullshit
[10:18] <Wal> next well have emacs and vi users at each other in here
[10:18] <lypie> |trey|: i don't script at all. just need multiple windows and good completion
[10:18] <lypie> EMACS SUCKS
[10:18] <_ranman_> haha, Can't people just learn that choices are good...
[10:18] <calc> so my 7.5gb /home shows as 8.0 GB in the partition manager :)
[10:18] <jblack> wal: Nah. Everybody that matters uses vim. :) 
[10:18] <Wal> bahaha
[10:18] <lypie> _ranman_: not when people start spouting fud sorry :)
[10:18] <|trey|> lypie: gaim is ok at those things...
 The only people that're promoting one over the other are the rest of you.
[10:19] <lypie> |trey|: whats the completion like?
[10:19] <_ranman_> ic...
[10:19] <jblack> mwilson: I think that most everybody thinks theres plenty of room for both.
[10:19] <|trey|> lypie: less annoying then XChat... although I prefer XChat overall  :)
[10:19] <jblack> and more, besides. 
[10:19] <lypie> |trey|: when i type blah with the options blah|u blah|blah do i get blah|blah if i tab 3 times?
[10:19] <lypie> i just hate fud
[10:20] <lypie> especially stuff thats complete crap :)
[10:20] <mwilson> lypie: And when there's actually some here, you can go right ahead and hate it.
[10:21] <lypie> "mwilson> jblack: They have different focuses... Gnome is about technical excellence, KDE is about moron-appeal."
[10:21] <lypie> ^ complete crap :)
[10:21] <lypie> go talk to the gnome devels sometime
[10:21] <xcasex> haha
[10:21] <mwilson> Oh, so Gnome *isn't* about excellence?
[10:21] <lypie> yes
[10:21] <jblack> lypie: Gah! Don't associate me with that line! 
[10:21] <lypie> but so is kde 
[10:22] <lypie> jblack: sorry
[10:22] <mwilson> I'm sure those devs will be happy to hear THAT.
[10:22] <lypie> i put the mwilson at the start
[10:22] <|trey|> GNOME is about a dumbed down interface... hiding things from users so they don't waste time... KDE can be overwhelming, but only for those that are a little retarded...
[10:22] <jblack> lypie: Grin. :) 
[10:22] <lypie> mwilson: dimwit. i chat to most of the gnome devels
[10:22] <Wal> one uses qt and the other uses gtk - there are awesome apps in both camps i reckon
[10:22] <lypie> Wal: yup :)
[10:22] <mwilson> lypie: You're the one who said it, not me.  So, apparently it's not complete crap, then?
[10:22] <_ranman_> What?!? Gnome is not about excellence? Their shit does stink? OMG!!!!
[10:22] <lypie> and gnome 2.8 has some majorly nice stuff :)
[10:23] <lypie> mwilson: i was just being annoying while u seem to actually believe yourself :P
[10:23] <|trey|> Wal: indeed... gtk2-engines-qt-gkt creates a pretty good marriage of the two also...
[10:23] <jblack> lypie: What's the neat stuff that 2.8 has? 
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: well its fast :P
[10:23] <Wal> im gnome user and k3b for me as cdr program is awesome
[10:23] <jblack> lypie: Yeah. That I noticed. 
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: and i love the new nautilus style actaully
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: they really cleaned it up
[10:23] <mwilson> lypie: So I shouldn't believe myself when I say that Gnome is about excellence, then?
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: i'm an amiga user
[10:23] <|trey|> Usually, when I use Debian... I use KDE + mostly GTK apps, and the simular theme...
[10:23] <xcasex> wal, depends, i prefer nautilus cdburner myself :D
[10:23] <lypie> jblack: i love the spatial thing :P
[10:23] <mwilson> lypie: You really have an odd way of looking at things.
[10:23] <azeem> lypie: that's not new in 2.8 though, spatial nautilus was introduced in 2.6
[10:24] <|trey|> (usually Plastik)
[10:24] <jblack> lypie: 2.8 did seem awfully pretty to me.
[10:24] <Wal> does anyone know what version FC3 is going to use?
[10:24] <xcasex> mwilson, are'nt you discussing fringe semantics now ?
[10:24] <lypie> jblack: yup :)
[10:24] <lypie> xcasex: thanks for saying this
[10:24] <lypie> gaim is funky :)
[10:24] <daKirsch> hello
[10:24] <|trey|> mwilson: why are you discussing KDE vs GNOME in a channel who's distro doesn't even include KDE? fucking moronic if you ask me.
[10:24] <mwilson> xcasex: Apparently saying that Gnome strives for technical excellence is spreading FUD.
[10:24] <lypie> hehe
[10:24] <|trey|> Go to #Xandros or something  :/
[10:25] <lypie> mwilson: idiot
[10:25] <jblack> lypie: Be nice if it had some of the pretties that kde had. Somehow, I've gotten addicted to bouncing icons, and the growing icons in the task bar that kde has.
[10:25] <lypie> jblack: hehe
[10:25] <xcasex> mwilson, i think it's the explicit exclusion of usability in your argument that is making peoples pants twist :D
[10:25] <lypie> calc: the code...
[10:25] <mwilson> |trey|: I've yet to promote one vs the other... so far, y'all are doing all that.
[10:25] <HrdwrBoB> ok
[10:25] <LeeColleton> is the ubuntu gaim going to support gaim-encryption?
[10:25] <HrdwrBoB> now that you are all over that 
[10:25] <azeem> calc: as long as they support building in a builddir != srcdir, you can just rm -rf it ;)
[10:25] <lypie> HrdwrBoB: :P
[10:25] <|trey|> calc: at least your points are valid... he is just spurting bullshit.
[10:25] <Wal> xcasex, more to the point, the one step cd cloning is awesome
[10:26] <HrdwrBoB> can someone who's used ubuntu partition resizing talk to me
[10:26] <lypie> though honestly. make clean is a bitch to get working :P
[10:26] <xcasex> Wal, ah you
[10:26] <mwilson> Ah, now Gnome's excellence is bullshit.
[10:26] <lypie> you should just use srcdir != buildir :P
[10:26] <azeem> |trey|: it always takes at least two people to discuss something :)
[10:26] <jblack> You're all wrong! Everything stinks for twm. We all need to go back to the basics. 
[10:26] <xcasex> Wal, ah you're that sort of user, i burn the occasional cd :)
[10:26] <calc> azeem: i had to do that, since make clean didn't work, and in the past != didn't work either, much fun
[10:26] <mwilson> Why is it that everyone else comes up with the nonsense?
[10:26] <xcasex> mwilson, did you forget to take your ritalin this morning?
[10:26] <daKirsch> i have a question: are there missing symlinks on the ubuntu ftp? i had to change a line in the 'current' warty-i368.jigdo in order to get it work. i changed the mirror to http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/pool
[10:26] <lypie> hehe
[10:26] <Wal> xcasex, im not that bad :lol:
[10:26] <|trey|> azeem: not when mwilson is around... he will respond to anything directed at him... and never shut up about it...
[10:27] <xcasex> wal, hehee ;)
[10:27] <HrdwrBoB> daKirsch if there is, file a bugreport :)
[10:27] <mwilson> xcasex: Apparently excellence is a bad thing, if you belive everyone here.
[10:27] <lypie> mwilson: you smell of poo
[10:27] <|trey|> azeem: ~3 years of seeing this dude @ work in #debian  :/
[10:27] <|trey|> lypie: no personal attacks, thanks
[10:27] <jblack> Cut out filesystem browsers and bouncing icons, and nautilus and kde-wallet, and mozilla and everything. Lets just go back to text files and twm. We'll save gobs on memory, right mwilson? 
[10:27] <xcasex> mwilson, *grin* 
[10:27] <daKirsch> never did this before :> it's not that hard, is it?
[10:27] <lypie> |trey|: i wanted to prove your point right
[10:27] <lypie> |trey|: wanted to see him defend his smell :P
[10:27] <mwilson> jblack: Funny, haven't promoted that idea at all.
[10:27] <azeem> jblack: ion, not twm
[10:27] <Wal> xcasex, more using it copying my mates fedora cds in the last week
[10:28] <|trey|> lypie: eh, no need  :/
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> daKirsch no, it's pretty easy, if you get it wrong people will just redirect it to the right person etc
[10:28] <xcasex> Wal, oh, well if you have nautilus running it's just a rightclick away :)
[10:28] <jblack> mwilson: No, but why haven't you? 
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> posting a bug to the wrong person or area is not perfect but it's better than none at all
[10:28] <mwilson> jblack: Why would I, when I don't agree with it?
[10:28] <daKirsch> ok thanks. i'll give it a try
[10:28] <Wal> xcasex, lol ;)
[10:28] <jblack> You don't? What would you agree with, then? \
[10:28] <daKirsch> bye
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> "posting bugs helps everyone"
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> quote, unquote
[10:28] <HrdwrBoB> catch
[10:28] <daKirsch> *g*
[10:30] <mwilson> jblack: Hm?
[10:30] <lypanov> la la la
[10:30] <jblack> mwilson: If you don't agree with that, what would you agree with? 
[10:31] <lypanov> jblack: disagreement :)
[10:31] <jblack> That there's several skilled teams all working very hard to ease desktop management? 
[10:31] <jamesh> hi jblack 
[10:31] <lypanov> neato. gaim has cute icons :P
[10:32] <xcasex> lypanov, and a nasty listview ;_;
[10:32] <mwilson> jblack: When did I say I didn't agree with that?  Or did?  In this conversation, I've had people label me as a Gnome-hater, a Gnome-lover, a KDE-hater, and a KDE-lover, and the only thing I did was make a statement about the goals of the respective projects.  Personally, I don't use either one.
[10:32] <lypanov> xcasex: its all cute :P
[10:33] <jblack> mwilson: I'm not asking if you disagree. I'm asking if you agree. :) 
[10:33] <xcasex> lypanov, no, proteus is cute, gaim's just nasty ;)
[10:33] <xcasex> mwilson, jblack  kiss and make up :)
[10:33] <lypanov> mwilson: you insulted me (in)directly via your unneeded comment on gnome vs kde's technical excellence. and now you continue to argue your points by confusing all but yourself. give it a rest k?
[10:33] <jblack> xcasex: What for? I don't think we're fighting. 
[10:33] <mwilson> jblack: I do believe that KDE will do things to suit the users, at the expense of technical merit, while Gnome will do the reverse.  That's opinion, and people are free to disagree with it.  It's not FUD, it's merely opinion.
[10:33] <lypanov> xcasex: proteus? :P gtk2 also?
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> anyone who wants to talk about KDE
[10:34] <xcasex> lypanov, hehe, hehehe, no *cough* osx *cough*
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> can go to #kde
[10:34] <lypanov> xcasex: dang it :P
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> or #ubuntukde
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> or #ihatekde
[10:34] <HrdwrBoB> please yourself
[10:34] <xcasex> jblack, darn, i wanted to see a little raunchyness :(
[10:34] <lypanov> lol
[10:34] <lypanov> poor xcasex
[10:35] <xcasex> lypanov, you have no idea ;_;
[10:35] <lypanov> i like gaim :)
[10:35] <lypanov> its all cute :)
[10:35] <calc> seb128: hi
[10:36] <seb128> hey calc 
[10:37] <|trey|> Someone remind me later to bitch at HrdwrBoB about BitchX
[10:37] <lypanov> hehe
[10:37] <lypanov> |trey|: thx for suggestion i really like this :)
[10:37] <|trey|> The part messages are annoying  [angryface] 
[10:37] <|trey|> lypanov: what I recommend?
[10:38] <lypanov> |trey|: gaim i think :P
[10:38] <lypanov> any fast console's for gnome?
[10:38] <|trey|> lypanov: ohh... hmm, the devs are really friendly too  :)
[10:38] <|trey|> lypanov: no
[10:38] <lypanov> arse :(
[10:38] <|trey|> lypanov: they are all about as slow as gnome-terminal-emulator
[10:38] <lypanov> :(
[10:39] <lypanov> its soooo sllloowwwww
[10:39] <|trey|> with on a side note, really really needs a new name, thats a pain to type
[10:39] <lypanov> yup
[10:39] <|trey|> witch*
[10:39] <lypanov> as everything starts with gnome-
[10:39] <|trey|> should be gnome-console though  :/
[10:39] <|trey|> much easier to type  :/
[10:39] <lypanov> yup
[10:39] <lypanov> well its gnome-terminal here rather than gnome-terminal-emulator in fact
[10:40] <lypanov> anyways. konsole is much faster
[10:40] <lypanov> but its kinda ugly compared to gnome-terminal :|
[10:40] <jblack> There's some sort of edge case in gnome-terminal. 
[10:40] <lypanov> but then gnome-terminal is freaking buggy
[10:40] <lypanov> i keep on getting a full blue screen :|
[10:40] <jblack> Affects nobody but me. I can't get a gnome terminal to run more than 20 minutes before I crash it.
[10:40] <subterrific> there is Terminal from xfce or whatever
[10:40] <lypanov> jblack: it affects me too don't worry
[10:40] <subterrific> looks almost exactly like gnome-term
[10:40] <jblack> oh, really? 
[10:40] <lypanov> subterrific: fast?
[10:41] <subterrific> dunno, never tried it
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: yeah. crashed it 3 times yesterday
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: its awful
[10:41] <|trey|> subterrific: that just runs x-terminal-emulator with a little wrapper that appears to do nothing at all...
[10:41] <subterrific> i'm fine with gnome-term, i've got nice fast machines
[10:41] <kremlyn> just run aterm.
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: erm. not crashes in fact
[10:41] <lypanov> jblack: infinite loops
[10:41] <jblack> lypanov: Do you tend to switch windows rapidly with both the keyboard and mouse at the same time? 
[10:41] <opi^work> re
[10:41] <|trey|> kremlyn: bah... anything resembling motif in any way just isn't used on my box.
[10:41] <|trey|> Its like a rule or something...
[10:41] <kremlyn> lol
[10:41] <subterrific> |trey|: are you sure? i saw screenshots and it has tabbed terms and a huge preferences window
[10:42] <lypanov> jblack: i use alt-n all the time but use alt-tab to switch windows
[10:42] <kremlyn> why?
[10:42] <lypanov> jblack: i run screen and irssi and zsh
[10:42] <|trey|> subterrific: very... at least from 4.0.x
[10:42] <lypanov> jblack: and it keeps going blue so i'm forced to press ctrl-l
[10:42] <|trey|> maybe they actually wrote a terminal for 4.2.x, doubt it though...
[10:42] <calc> btw ubuntu works with only /boot outside lvm
[10:42] <calc> i just installed it to see
[10:42] <lypanov> calc: nice
[10:43] <lypanov> calc: i was thinking of setting my home machine up with lvm
[10:43] <lypanov> calc: how on earth do i setup lvm? :P
[10:43] <calc> it warns you that / must be outside of lvm but works anyway
[10:43] <|trey|> calc: /boot can't go in an LVM2 volume, everyone knows that  :)
[10:43] <lypanov> calc: (from within the installer or?)
[10:43] <hazmat> does totem/gstreamer actually work for anyone?
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: it plays nothing here
[10:43] <hazmat> its been entirely useless here
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: no video's work at least
[10:43] <calc> lypanov: its easy, just create a /boot partition and a lvm partition then add groups and volumes
[10:43] <|trey|> calc: grub can't recognize LVM2 volumes afaik
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: try gst-register
[10:43] <_ranman_> totem, is completely useless
[10:43] <jblack> I've never gotten totem to work. I've bene using xine instead
[10:43] <lypanov> hazmat: that made the sound work
[10:43] <hazmat> aha
[10:43] <lypanov> does xine work well these days?
[10:43] <opi^work> gxine/mplayer :)
[10:44] <lypanov> it used to crash all the time :(
[10:44] <calc> |trey|: yes i know /boot has to be outside it says all of / needs to be outside but doesn't have to be
[10:44] <opi^work> lydickaw: quite nice
[10:44] <jblack> lypanov: Its been working reliably for me on ubuntu. 
[10:44] <lypanov> oh. whats the apt.sources line for mplayer?
[10:44] <hazmat> xine and mplayer worked well last i tried with gentoo..
[10:44] <opi^work> lydickaw: try gxine, you'll have GTK face :)
[10:44] <|trey|> _ranman_: totem-gstreamer kinda is... apt-get install totem-xine + ffmpeg and w32codecs from marillat...
[10:44] <lypanov> opi^work: k i'll give it a go :)
[10:44] <|trey|> calc: look at how Fedora did it  ;)
[10:44] <lypanov> |trey|: whats the marillat line?
[10:44] <calc> lypanov: d-i makes it fairly simple to setup, i set it up first under fedora fc3t2 then tried it in d-i
[10:44] <_ranman_> ??? I thought that I was ignored?
[10:44] <_ranman_> ic..
[10:44] <calc> |trey|: yea fedora sticks / in lvm
[10:45] <opi^work> lydickaw: it's a .fr host with .deb that has all win32 codecs ;p
[10:45] <|trey|> _ranman_: took you off when mwilson was getting enough attention for his ignore status to be annoying...
[10:45] <lypanov> opi^work: yeah. whats the url though? :P
[10:45] <opi^work> but I prefer to fetch stuff from mplyaerhq and compile it
[10:45] <calc> |trey|: point being the text in d-i probably could use updating since / works inside a lvm and it states it will not
[10:45] <_ranman_> ic.. haha
[10:45] <opi^work> lydickaw: d'oh, try google with mplayer debian ;P
[10:45] <|trey|> calc: #debian-boot would be a better place to say that  :)
[10:45] <calc> yea :)
[10:46] <lypanov> umm
[10:46] <lypanov> does firefox have "g blah" (opera) or "gg:blah" (konqi)?
[10:46] <opi^work> URL shortcuts?
[10:46] <lypanov> yup
[10:46] <opi^work> dunno :)
[10:46] <|trey|> lypanov: not in its base form, no... it has a google search thingy in the toolbar though...
[10:46] <opi^work> but it has google input box :P
[10:46] <jamesh> lypanov: you can set up any keywords you want to.
[10:46] <lypanov> oh. it works :)
[10:47] <|trey|> There is an extension that allows for g:blahsomething though
[10:47] <lypanov> the google search thingy is tiny though :(
[10:47] <Treenaks> lypanov: doesn't matter, you can type all you want in it
[10:47] <jamesh> lypanov: go to a website, and right click on an entry field and choose "Add a keyword for this search"
[10:47] <lypanov> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main
[10:47] <lypanov> this one ^
[10:47] <opi^work> hrmm
[10:47] <jamesh> lypanov: if you set the keyword to "foo", you can type "foo search terms" and it will do the search.
[10:47] <|trey|> lypanov: you looking for a yes or no?
[10:48] <lypanov> eeek
[10:48] <opi^work> lypanov: apt-get.org would get you there ;)
[10:48] <lypanov> jamesh: *sweeeeeeeeeeeeet*
[10:48] <SuperLag> lypanov: why would it, when it has a Google search window right there??
[10:48] <lypanov> |trey|: yer :P
[10:48] <lypanov> SuperLag: 1) way too small, 2) how the heck do i get there easily?
[10:48] <|trey|> lypanov: then yes... he is a debian developer, so his packages are safe...
[10:48] <lypanov> oohh
[10:48] <lypanov> f7 is sweet
[10:48] <Treenaks> lypanov: F6, <tab> :)
[10:48] <lypanov> ah
[10:49] <lypanov> thx Treenaks :)
[10:49] <|trey|> add them, and type apt-get install totem-xine ffmpeg w32codecs
[10:49] <subterrific> http://www.os-cillation.com/article.php?sid=40
[10:49] <subterrific> thats what i was talking about
[10:49] <Treenaks> lypanov: F6 highlights your URL bar
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: yer. same in konqi :)
[10:49] <subterrific> thats a term app for Xfce
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: copied from ie i guess :P
[10:49] <Treenaks> lypanov: and IE6 even :)
[10:49] <lypanov> hehe
[10:49] <Treenaks> but most people don't know about it
[10:49] <stevedeo> Anyone in here managed to get MonoDevelop running from tseng's packages?
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: i do :$ thats the worst part :$
[10:49] <lypanov> Treenaks: just didn't try it yet :$
[10:49] <opi^work> Treenaks: people mostny don't use keyboard ;(
[10:49] <tortoise__> is there a gnome version of kde's fish?
[10:50] <lypanov> tortoise__: i wondered the same
[10:50] <|trey|> tortoise__: yes
[10:50] <opi^work> what's fish? :)
[10:50] <lypanov> opi^work: kio slave that allows you to ssh somewhere and look at the dir content in your file manager :)
[10:50] <|trey|> right click panel >> add to panel >> fish
[10:50] <tortoise__> not that fish!
[10:50] <subterrific> lypanov: http://www.os-cillation.com/article.php?sid=40
[10:50] <opi^work> lydickaw: nice
[10:50] <|trey|> There is also a fish you can have swim around your screen... I forget what you type for that though...
[10:50] <joem> file-connect to server in nautilus
[10:51] <opi^work> lypanov: nice, haven't use it ;)
[10:51] <lypanov> |trey|: read my line, fish: is something different :P
[10:51] <|trey|> something like: free the fishes name
[10:51] <_ranman_> lypanov nautilus does this?
[10:51] <lypanov> _ranman_: i only know that konqi does this
[10:51] <lypanov> _ranman_: i wonder how to do it with nautilus
[10:51] <|trey|> lypanov: ahh... my bad... umm... tsclient isn't what you want? allows ssh etc...
[10:52] <lypanov> joem: ah :)
[10:52] <joem> :)
[10:52] <_ranman_> if you are using ubuntu, then go to computer:/// and the connect to server is under file..
[10:52] <_ranman_> lypanov ^
[10:52] <joem> its under file in any nautilus window
[10:53] <lypanov> doesn't work here  :(
[10:53] <_ranman_> It is not there, when you are in home directory..
[10:54] <_ranman_> hold on, I will check my home..
[10:54] <|trey|> _ranman_: it is here...
[10:54] <joem> every nautilus window has a file menu
[10:54] <lypanov> :|
[10:54] <lypanov> it just does nothing
[10:54] <lypanov> |trey|: is that what you mean?
[10:54] <_ranman_> joem, but the connect to server is not always there..
[10:54] <_ranman_> It is a ghost..
[10:54] <joem> is here
[10:54] <hazmat> lypanov, the suggestion from #dev was to install totem-xine
[10:55] <hazmat> lypanov, its not in base because of patent/licensing issues
[10:55] <|trey|> hazmat: wtf, the devs made there own channel?  [angryface] 
[10:56] <_ranman_> lyponov, it worked for me.. But you must view the tree on the left... Used SSH
[10:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> it makes sense they would have their own channel - when doing development you dont want to deal with the clutter of a support channel all the time
[10:56] <lypanov> _ranman_: i've got a window here saying "creating properies window... you can stop this by pressing cancel"
[10:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> they probably work in both channels
[10:56] <lypanov> _ranman_: its sure as hell not connecting to my server :/
[10:57] <tortoise__> _ranman_ nor mine
[10:57] <lypanov> lol
[10:57] <joem> or the clutter of everybodys petty arguments..
[10:57] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: imo, such things shouldn't even be on IRC... but if it must be, others lacking technical knowhow should at least have input...
[10:57] <mkyc-ubuntu> that too
[10:57] <lypanov> and now nautilus crashed
[10:57] <lypanov> oh
[10:57] <lypanov> and again
[10:57] <|trey|> We use the system after all...
[10:57] <_ranman_> creating properties ??? That is not what I got,,,, I got the password dialog...
[10:57] <lypanov> _ranman_: it never appears here :(
[10:57] <_ranman_> hmmm, maybe because I am in Taiwan..
[10:58] <tortoise__> lypanov: mine did that first time but worked the second 
[10:58] <|trey|> lypanov: just for shits and giggles... dpkg -l sshd
[10:58] <|trey|> I think thats the package name..
[10:58] <|trey|> its not installed by default
[10:58] <lypanov> |trey|: i'm ssh'ing to a different server :P
[10:58] <fabbione> openssh-server
[10:58] <|trey|> I wasn't even close [scar] 
[10:58] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes |trey| and when its released they will ask for help not when they are developing it. IRC is a good place for communicaition for people doing that sort of work but its not somewhere you want non devs, if you want to help out theyre always looking for developers so why not volunteer :)
[10:59] <fabbione> |trey|: anyway you shouldn't be woried about a #dev channel
[10:59] <fabbione> we all sit on both chans
[10:59] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: because I suck @ code  :/
[10:59] <lypanov> just as long as you don't go the way of gentoo :)
[10:59] <mkyc-ubuntu> i think that sort of makes my point |trey| :)
[10:59] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: so because I can't code, I can't make suggestions?
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> sure you can
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> in here
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> or via the many other avenues that exist in the website or wiki
[11:00] <fabbione> |trey|: the #dev chan is free and open
[11:00] <crimsun> and there's bugzilla, too, or the mailing lists
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol
[11:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> there you go, jump on in
[11:01] <|trey|> fabbione: its not #ubuntu-dev or #dev, so y'all appear to want it to be hard to find  :/
[11:01] <fabbione> |trey|: everybody can join, but the topic is development and not help/support. Everybody with that clear idea in mind is more than welcome to join
[11:01] <fabbione> #ubuntu-devel
[11:01] <lonewolff> morning all
[11:01] <fabbione> |trey|: it's not a secret channel
[11:01] <fabbione> or nothing
[11:01] <lonewolff> i wonder if anyone can help me, i seem to have lost the ability to open things by double clicking on them in gnome
[11:02] <|trey|> fabbione: in devel channels, I am fairly quiet... just like to take part in discussions that interest me  :)
[11:02] <tortoise__> how do i install media codec for rhythmbox, it cant even play mp3
[11:02] <joem> tortoise__, gstreamer-mad
[11:02] <mkyc-ubuntu> personally as a non programmer i cant think of anything more boring to me than a #dev channell
[11:02] <|trey|> tortoise__: what joem said is mp3... apt-get.org -> search for "w32codecs" to get the rest...
[11:02] <mkyc-ubuntu> well with the exception of budget meetings :)
[11:03] <aes> mkyc-ubuntu: risk assessments.
[11:03] <tortoise__> joem,|trey|: thanks
[11:03] <_ranman_> haha, aes is right on the money..
[11:03] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: desktop oriented devel channels can be quite interesting... also, they are the truely knowledgable, so you learn a lot...
[11:03] <mkyc-ubuntu> aes : ERP project meetings
[11:04] <|trey|> regular channels are boring sometimes... helping morons gets old  :/
[11:04] <aes> mkyc-ubuntu: ok, so a few things are more boring then :)
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> aes yeah seems so
[11:04] <_ranman_> mkyc-ubuntu: risk assesments is clearly the winner..
[11:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> yeah i agree on that - risk assessments suck
[11:05] <mkyc-ubuntu> i have used the term myself today already :)
[11:05] <_ranman_> Stripping a whole billing system down to tiny hardware components coming up with Time to Failure reports is the worst sort of torture..
[11:06] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: actually, its a good attitude... if you assume they know too much, it will bite you in the butt more often then not..
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol so true
[11:06] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: 2 years of tech support  :)
[11:06] <mkyc-ubuntu> _ranman_, whats worse is doing that only to be told the budget doesnt exist to implement the required safeguards
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> |trey|, 10 years here.. i am truly insane now
[11:07] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: umm, ouch... hah, thats half my life time  :)
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> scary isnt it
[11:07] <_ranman_> No, I am in Taiwan, I do not have to worry about safeguards, or security.. haha
[11:07] <|trey|> very  :(
[11:07] <|trey|> I was in elementary school I think, if that  :(
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> now i feel very very old
[11:07] <mkyc-ubuntu> hell im only 35
[11:07] <lypanov> what does "blah blah have been kept back" mean?
[11:07] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: haha, I'm sorry  :)
[11:08] <lypanov> (apt-get)
[11:08] <|trey|> I'm almost half your age though  :)
[11:08] <opi^work> im only 24 and I feel very very old ;)
[11:08] <mkyc-ubuntu> lol
[11:08] <_ranman_> ic... Trey is young.. Understand why sensitive.. 
[11:08] <lypanov> opi^work: snap
[11:08] <opi^work> comuters sucks life out of you :)
[11:08] <|trey|> lypanov: means it will change the database in some way... usually a new package is required etc...
[11:08] <_ranman_> I am 34, and the average coworker is 21...
[11:08] <Se7h> question: where is the system log ?
[11:08] <_ranman_> /var/log
[11:08] <mkyc-ubuntu> funnily enough i just started with a new company where my staff are all my age, makes a change to kiddies :)
[11:09] <|trey|> lypanov: sometimes it means there is a major change in the configuration also...
[11:09] <|trey|> Se7h: /var/log
[11:09] <_ranman_> haha, you are lucky..............................
[11:09] <Se7h> thanks
[11:09] <|trey|> Se7h: umm, no idea where the pretty gnome interface for it is though  :/
[11:09] <mkyc-ubuntu> computers dont suck life out its the people who use computers who do it :)
[11:10] <_ranman_> gnome-logview, If that is the latest name for it.
[11:10] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: agreed
[11:10] <_ranman_> trey^
[11:10] <opi^work> i prefer tail -F /file
[11:10] <|trey|> gnome-system-log
[11:10] <opi^work> There's a nice toy that works as stdio and its transparent :)
[11:10] <opi^work> so you can watch your logs while you work
[11:11] <opi^work> I can't recall name, I'll as my sysadmin, when he'll be back
[11:11] <|trey|> _ranman_: I was being sarcastic... whenever I say things like "pretty" in relation to software, I am being sarcastic  :)
[11:11] <|trey|> Enless I am talking about KDE, but that shouldn't happen much here  :)
[11:11] <_ranman_> I did not say it was pretty... Just the name... ;)
[11:11] <|trey|> _ranman_: I did though  ;)
[11:12] <|trey|> and its not the name  8)
[11:12] <_ranman_> I never use it.. I agree with opi, that tail -f is sufficient..
[11:12] <|trey|> _ranman_: psst, case is important  :/
[11:13] <|trey|> umm, or not  :/
[11:13] <opi^work> |trey|: everyones knows that it's -F ;D
[11:13] <calc> syslog output should be standardized and in xml format so logviewers can parse them better and add pretty colors :)
[11:13] <opi^work> calc: xmlsucks.com
[11:13] <|trey|> opi^work: would appear to be both... I should try reading more man pages...
[11:13] <crimsun> xml is great
[11:14] <_ranman_> hmmm, I use -f...
[11:14] <|trey|> calc: things like logs shouldn't need pretty colors 
[11:14] <|trey|> _ranman_: its the same thing... man tail
[11:15] <|trey|> 8)
[11:15] <opi^work> and logs should be READABLE with less
[11:15] <opi^work> tail and cat
[11:15] <opi^work> XML need parser
[11:15] <|trey|> cat is not useful for logs...
[11:15] <_ranman_> ic... -F is also --retry ..
[11:15] <opi^work> so if parser will fail, you're doomed ;-)
[11:15] <|trey|> _ranman_: both are --retry   :)
[11:16] <opi^work> |trey|: it's just an example ;-)
[11:16] <_ranman_> no -f is no retry, just --follow..
[11:16] <_ranman_> opi started a new discussion..
[11:16] <opi^work> sorry, I shouldn't form topics ;)
[11:16] <opi^work> form/fork
[11:16] <_ranman_> At least it is not about KDE..
[11:16] <|trey|> opi^work: its quite alright @ this time of day  :)
[11:17] <LoneTech> hello
[11:18] <|trey|> LoneTech: need help?
[11:18] <calc> hell if log files were in XML there would never be any problems to log anymore since XML solves everything ;)
[11:19] <opi^work> calc: it even do my dishes
[11:19] <LoneTech> not really. I just noticed a detail in the wiki I was wondering about..
[11:19] <opi^work> calc: take dog on walk
[11:19] <_ranman_> XML solved my marriage problems..
[11:19] <hazmat> how does debian deal with a package if you've changed aa package's existing configuration? for example some files under /etc
[11:19] <jblack> calc: If logs were in xml, and all the problems were solved, then we wouldn't need logs any more.
[11:19] <opi^work> hazmat: asks
[11:19] <|trey|> ugh @ ubuntu not supporting gstreamer-mad too  [angryface] 
[11:19] <opi^work> hazmat: do you want to keep old, install new, see diffs
[11:20] <_ranman_> hazmat:It will ask if you wish to replace or keep the new config..
[11:20] <calc> jblack: so lets just get rid of logging! :)
[11:20] <hazmat> cool, thanks
[11:20] <LoneTech> the warty "supported seed" page calls setserial old. It's a rather essential tool on my laptop, as the IR port must be disabled with setserial for the FIR module to load. If there isn't a replacement for setserial I'd like to see it remain.
[11:20] <crimsun> |trey|: true, but one can get by with universe ;)
[11:20] <|trey|> damnit... why can Debian keep mp3 support, but no one else dare? Debian has a reputation of being the most anal distro around about such topics
[11:20] <jblack> calc: Yeah! Why not! Nobody reads 'em anyways. :)
[11:20] <opi^work> calc: yeah, let's log to /dev/null
[11:20] <opi^work> or, better /dev/audio
[11:20] <opi^work> you could dance to hackers ;)
[11:20] <jblack> Heh. "My computer sounds sweet!"
[11:21] <_ranman_> jblack needs to get out more..
[11:21] <|trey|> crimsun: I suppose, but Ubuntu will now share Fedora's bad wrap on the subject... yay
[11:21] <calc> |trey|: Debian takes the stand that since everything is covered by patents, only get rid of things that are being actively enforced
[11:21] <jblack> ranman: Working at home is a very solitary thing.
[11:21] <calc> and mp3 playback is not actively enforced
[11:21] <calc> mp3 encoding is and thus lame is not in debian
[11:22] <_ranman_> haha, ic..
[11:22] <jblack> ranman: But its worth it. 
[11:22] <lypanov> gnome2 is all soo cuuteeee
[11:22] <lypanov> |trey|: what were the 3 pkgs i needed to install?
[11:22] <lypanov> totem-xine crashes on me :(
[11:23] <lypanov> mplayer won't go full screen when i press f :(
[11:23] <|trey|> calc: makes sense, but still annoying from a user perspective... oh well, if they get EVERYTHING that users install from the non-free realm (java flash all codecs etc) then it will appease us  :)
[11:23] <nate> hmm
[11:23] <|trey|> lypanov: totem-xine ffmpeg w32codecs
[11:24] <calc> aiui valgrind is heavily covered by patents but fedora includes it (from what i remember)
[11:24] <|trey|> realsm *into universe
[11:24] <|trey|> realm*
[11:24] <calc> and now java is patented so we need to rip all of that out
[11:24] <nate> yow, 54 MB of updates since yesterday
[11:24] <LoneTech> erm, reacting differently to repeated presses of a button is patented too.
[11:24] <nate> does that sound right?
[11:24] <jblack> (re: ubuntu) : 05:24 < kernel_panic> not trying to blab so much but  i installed it in vmware and i
[11:25] <jblack>                       have to say it was fast as hell even in there
[11:25] <|trey|> calc: Fedora is starting to get more and more java packages... all compiled with gcj... wonder if that includes a useful (read works with browsers) jre?
[11:26] <|trey|> LoneTech: wtf?
[11:26] <nate> hmm, where's kaffe at these days?
[11:26] <_ranman_> trey: that is old news... 
[11:26] <|trey|> _ranman_: blah... read the question part.
[11:27] <|trey|> ugh, second user using a kde irc client I have seen  [pissedoffface] 
[11:28] <|trey|> [confusedface] 
[11:28] <LoneTech> I guess those tags are replaced with pictures in some client?
[11:28] <|trey|> _ranman_: ps, I don't recall them including any java packages in FC2, so its still a new thing...
[11:29] <|trey|> LoneTech: what tags?
[11:29] <LoneTech> those you output: pissedoffface, confusedface.  within [ and ] 
[11:29] <mjr> IIRC there's a gcj(gci?)-browser-plugin but it didn't do any bytecode verifying last I checked so not that useful. (Might've changed, I dunno)
[11:29] <|trey|> LoneTech: mine? umm, no, hence the discriptive nature... >:-\ isn't peticularly enlightening to me  :/
[11:30] <LoneTech> ah
[11:32] <|trey|> (got a 97% in the class, 3 points dropped cuz of attendance...
[11:32] <_ranman_> trey: my comment before was in regards to the clicking...
[11:32] <|trey|> _ranman_: oh... blah
[11:32] <Iorek> hey all...anybody know how to install some win codecs?
[11:33] <|trey|> Iorek: go to apt-get.org... search for w32codecs... get it from the source that states "marillat"
[11:33] <lypanov> Iorek: apt-get install win32codecs
[11:33] <lypanov> "deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main"
[11:33] <|trey|> lypanov: w32codecs*
[11:33] <lypanov> oops yer
[11:34] <lypanov> i installed the right one at least :P
[11:34] <lypanov> """
[11:34] <|trey|> :)
[11:34] <Iorek> trey, lypanov, thanks ;)
[11:34] <lypanov> not nice :(
[11:34] <|trey|> Iorek: lazy bastard  ;)
[11:34] <lypanov> :
[11:34] <lypanov> The program 'totem' received an X Window System error.
[11:34] <lypanov> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
[11:34] <lypanov> The error was 'BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)'.
[11:34] <lypanov> totem crashes :(
[11:34] <lypanov> mplayer doesn't work :(
[11:35] <_ranman_> That is what totem, is supposed to do right?
[11:35] <|trey|> lypanov: mplayer-nogui?
[11:35] <Iorek> trey I'm LEARNING :P
[11:35] <nate> When does Warty go gold?
[11:35] <|trey|> nate: late October (28th I think)
[11:35] <Iorek> October 20th
[11:35] <nate> aha
[11:35] <nate> guess we're going to give it a pretty good shakedown then
[11:35] <Iorek> said 20th on distrowatch, I think. Could be 28th :)
[11:35] <|trey|> Iorek: no, thats when final freeze occures... released almost a week later (anyone that wants to explain that please try)
[11:35] <nate> I wonder if I would be insane to consider running it on my primary home machine then
[11:35] <LoneTech> I have yet to see gstreamer work properly :(
[11:36] <nate> oh wait I already am
[11:36] <|trey|> LoneTech: haven't used Rhythmbox?
[11:36] <lypanov> LoneTech: tried the gst-register line?
[11:36] <Iorek> marillat.free.fr could not be found. Grumble
[11:37] <|trey|> LoneTech: wait, you were the poor sole who installed after gstreamer0.8-mad was moved to universe huh?
[11:37] <lypanov> Iorek: use mine then. that works :)
[11:37] <Iorek> hehe okay
[11:37] <|trey|> Iorek: use what lypanov said.
[11:37] <Iorek> hehe okay (bis) :P
[11:37] <|trey|> His repo gets moved a lot.
[11:37] <crimsun> don't use that, use the nerim.net mirror
[11:37] <|trey|> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main
[11:37] <LoneTech> actually, the one machine that I have currently running ubuntu isn't powerful enough for me to try it again right now.
[11:37] <|trey|> crimsun: its not a mirror, its the new home  ;)
[11:38] <crimsun> "mirror"
[11:38] <|trey|> idgi, thats what I said?
[11:38] <|trey|> Still not a mirror though, if the old site doesn't exist, its not being mirrored  :)
[11:38] <LoneTech> I shouldn't be using ubuntu on that box, but haven't bothered tuning it since.
[11:39] <|trey|> LoneTech: bah, I usually have sid installed on this box... Ubuntu is comparible with Sarge atm
[11:39] <|trey|> Which probably means nothing, but trust me, you're not being very risky...
[11:40] <crimsun> ubuntu is a step off the risk path of Sid
[11:41] <LoneTech> it's just too slow
[11:41] <|trey|> crimsun: I disagree, the packages have been worked on for longer then those in sarge in most cases
[11:41] <lypanov> doh
[11:41] <Iorek> I like yeling to other people that I'm using UBUNTU on my PC....
[11:41] <lypanov> xv is fucked here
[11:41] <Iorek> OOOBOOOONTOOOO!
[11:41] <lypanov> finally i found out whats wrong with xine :)
[11:41] <|trey|> crimsun: if you have more then one ubuntu install, try dist-upgrading to sarge... most packages are upgraded
[11:42] <jblack> iorek: Yeah, the guys in Dalnet #Linux are getting tired of me. 
[11:42] <lypanov> -vo x11 -zoom works :>
[11:42] <LoneTech> I run Sid normally, but this ubuntu installed a gnome setup. not the best thing for a MediaGX 266MHz with 61MB RAM.
[11:42] <jblack> y y y y y . 
[11:42] <|trey|> hence his first reinstall  :)
[11:42] <Iorek> jblack: *grin* I do it in real life :P
[11:42] <LoneTech> lypanov: aren't those mplayer switches?
[11:43] <Iorek> there, codecs. I can watch porn again
[11:43] <Iorek> er
[11:43] <Iorek> I mean
[11:43] <Iorek> Ukranian movies
[11:43] <|trey|> lypanov: 'f' is handy... full screen zoom  :0
[11:43] <Iorek> highly cultural
[11:43] <|trey|> heh
[11:43] <crimsun> |trey|: thanks but no thanks, i tend to dislike reinstalling. Even if it is only 8 minutes. ;)
[11:43] <lypanov> |trey|: i'm a year long mplayer user :P
[11:43] <lypanov> |trey|: mplayer rox :>
[11:43] <|trey|> crimsun: well, just take my word for it then  :)
[11:43] <lypanov> |trey|: i also used it on windows. the port is awesome
[11:44] <LoneTech> mplayer -vo x11 is much like xine -V xshm. haven't tried xine over networked X11 though.
[11:44] <|trey|> lypanov: thats the funny thing whenever I install windows... most of their components get switched out with my usual apps  :)
[11:45] <LoneTech> I prefer the design of xine-lib personally
[11:45] <nate> hmm
[11:45] <|trey|> LoneTech: ehh... its useless if it doesn't play nice with your codecs though...
[11:45] <|trey|>  I prefer whichever I need to play least with...
[11:45] <Iorek> umm, is there a way t opoint totem to these codecs or do I have to install xine? :)
[11:45] <|trey|> Whichever one plays a .mpg first is the winner each time I reinstall  :)
[11:46] <lypanov> Iorek: install totem-xine
[11:46] <Iorek> okay :)
[11:46] <lypanov> |trey|: yup :) mplayer just kicks ass :>
[11:46] <LoneTech> mpg? all of them should do that fine without extra codecs
[11:46] <nate> why is my Synaptic downloading mozilla-firefox-0.99+1.0PR.1-0ubuntu1 again?
[11:46] <lypanov> |trey|: the arrow keys are sooooooo useful
[11:46] <nate> according to aptitude, that's the version I already have installed
[11:46] <|trey|> lypanov: the devs suck though... hence why I don't really care whats used...
[11:46] <crimsun> nate: you sure?
[11:46] <nate> no, not sure
[11:46] <crimsun> nate: note PR.1
[11:47] <nate> possibly aptitude is reporting what's in the repository, not what's on my machine?
[11:47] <|trey|> nate: no
[11:47] <nate> what's the Debian way of doing an rpm -q package?
[11:47] <|trey|> nate: its a new version, just go with it
[11:47] <LoneTech> dpkg -l package?
[11:47] <nate> weird
[11:47] <crimsun> nate: again, note the PR.1
[11:47] <Iorek> lypanov: hmh. Weird error message here. Says another package refers to totem-xine but it can't find the package itseff
[11:48] <olojo> Hi there, I just installed Ubuntu and want to check the "synchronize clock.." setting in "Time and date settings". An error "NTP Support not running" appears, is installing ntp-simple through synaptic the "right thing(tm)" to do? the package ntp is already installed.
[11:48] <|trey|> Iorek: add "universe" to the end of your first deb line in sources.list that looks like a website
[11:48] <nate> aha
[11:48] <Iorek> okay
[11:49] <nate> right, so I was doing an 'aptitude show' which was showing the repository version not the local one
[11:49] <|trey|> nate: yes
[11:49] <_ranman_> olojo:ntp is not running.. 
[11:49] <nate> Oh right, of course, that's Firefox 0.10.1
[11:49] <_ranman_> olojo: start the daemon...
[11:49] <nate> d'oh
[11:50] <olojo> _ranman_: where's it to be found? neither ntp nor ntpd at least.
[11:51] <crimsun> ntp-server ?
[11:51] <ik5pvx> /etc/init.d/ntp-server start
[11:51] <Iorek> great, that worked. Well, one works, the other one just gives sound...
[11:51] <|trey|> olojo: ntp-server needs to be installed, check that... /etc/init.d/ntp-server start
[11:52] <_ranman_> hmmm, I do not run it.. check /etc/init.d or /etc/xinet.d/
[11:52] <jblack> Oh. Life just got better. http://www.uglypeople.com
[11:52] <_ranman_> hmmm forget the /etc/xinet.d/ hah
[11:52] <olojo> ntp-server shouldn't be needed, should it? 
[11:52] <|trey|> olojo: yes
[11:52] <crimsun> olojo: for most people it's not necessary
[11:52] <|trey|> else we wouldn't have told you to start it
[11:52] <|trey|> crimsun: it is if you want ntp to work  :/
[11:53] <olojo> ok
[11:53] <LoneTech> the ntp server is the program that keeps your clock in sync. if you only want one-shot syncs, ntpdate can do that.
[11:53] <|trey|> crimsun: no synchronization occurs if that server is not started
[11:53] <lypanov> how do i disable a service?
[11:53] <olojo> LoneTech: thanks, exactly the answer i neede.
[11:53] <lypanov> e.g, i don't need raid or lvm stuff. but its starting on bootup
[11:53] <lypanov> how to disable?
[11:53] <|trey|> lypanov: /etc/init.d/something stop
[11:53] <micX> 54mb to upgrade. ubuntu is nearly as bad as unstable at the moment :)
[11:54] <lypanov> |trey|: forever :)
[11:54] <crimsun> |trey|: interesting, it's not installed here.
[11:54] <|trey|> lypanov: update-rc.d
[11:54] <|trey|> crimsun: then install it  ;)
[11:54] <sanitario> hi, anyone got problems logging in to gnome after upgrading today? 
[11:54] <crimsun> |trey|: no need. we provide a stratum 2
[11:54] <|trey|> crimsun: I think, during boot, ntpdate is ran
[11:54] <crimsun> it is.
[11:54] <micX> sanitario, dunno, just upgrading...
[11:54] <nate> hmm
[11:55] <|trey|> crimsun: wtf is a stratum 2?
[11:55] <nate> anyone getting 'kernel: disabling IRQ #10' errors?
[11:55] <crimsun> tier 2 time server
[11:55] <sanitario> I can login using gdm, but gnome won't start
[11:55] <|trey|> crimsun: someone should put a timeout on that though... doesn't ever work for me  :/
[11:55] <|trey|> crimsun: ohhh... still not enlightened  :(
[11:55] <_ranman_> sanitario: I upgraded this morning (7 hours ago).. Gnome was all screwed up.. Firefox died.. My wife left me...
[11:55] <micX> sanitario, thanks for the tip, I will refrain from logging out :)
[11:55] <|trey|> _ranman_: umm, ouch... bad day then?
[11:56] <_ranman_> oops, forget the wife statement..
[11:56] <olojo> i suppose i need to fill in a NTP-server in some config somewhere? i installed ntp-server but the service won't start (FAIL)
[11:56] <|trey|> _ranman_: wishful thinking?
[11:56] <_ranman_> haha...
[11:56] <sanitario> micX: yes, try to do that
[11:56] <crimsun> |trey|: http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp.html
[11:56] <topyli> i don't think |trey| was referring to the wife but gnome :)
[11:56] <micX> olojo, are you trying to be a time server?
[11:56] <|trey|> topyli: you think wrong...
[11:57] <_ranman_> topyli: It was a really bad upgrade...
[11:57] <olojo> micX: no, trying to start an server to automatically keep my clock in sync.
[11:57] <|trey|> micX: thats not what ntp-server does, despite its name
[11:57] <topyli> wifes come ang go, but gnome should work
[11:57] <topyli> wives
[11:57] <micX> olojo, well, I don't think u need ntp-server then...
[11:57] <_ranman_> Yes, gnome is more reliable than sex with the wife... sigh...
[11:58] <|trey|> topyli: blah... I can reinstall gnome... my penis yells at me if it doesn't get action on a regular basis
[11:58] <|trey|> Certainly no using GNOME when it wants action  :/
[11:58] <micX> olojo, it's in /etc/default/ntp-servers I think
[11:59] <|trey|> olojo: if you 'dpkg-reconfigure debconf' and have it ask you 'low' priority messages... it would have asked you to enter a ntp server to sync with  :/
[12:00] <|trey|> Ubuntu sets this to "high" if I recall... kinda annoying when you're used to being in control...
[12:00] <|trey|> Might even be critical...
[12:01] <micX> olojo, well, it is on my debian box, not in ubuntu though... (looking)
[12:01] <|trey|> _ranman_: I'm sorry to hear that btw... the joys of being 20  :)
[12:01] <|trey|> micX: it will be the same place..
[12:01] <micX> olojo, it's in /etc/default/ntpdate
[12:02] <|trey|> micX: wrong file though, I can't be held responsible for that  ;)
[12:03] <olojo> trey: i had medium for sarge, will change it. ntpdate is already configured ok.
[12:04] <olojo> actually, ntp-server seem to only wrap around ntpd, whose config is in /etc/ntp.conf . oh well
[12:05] <|trey|> olojo: low basically asks you everything the maintainer has set as a question...
[12:06] <|trey|> olojo: yes, ntp-server is a wrapper for ntpd, I think that is the location I set things at (logically, I always look for somethingiwanttochange.conf)
[12:07] <Iorek> ah, btw, is there a giFT frontend for gnome?
[12:07] <Iorek> that works on Ubuntu?
[12:07] <|trey|> Iorek: yes... in universe even perhaps... giftoxic
[12:07] <olojo> trey, micx: now i have both ntpdate running on each bootup and ntpd running as a service. gnome "Time and date settings" seem to not find it anyways (same error on checking checkbox), but whattaheck ;)
[12:07] <|trey|> giFT hates me though, so I never saw it work  :/
[12:07] <olojo> thanks for the help
[12:08] <Iorek> trey got it working in suse and apollon, but took me some time
[12:08] <|trey|> Iorek: mostly attempted with apollon also... tried giftoxic, saw same errors, removed...
[12:08] <|trey|> Interface is very gnome-esc
[12:09] <|trey|> ie kinda useless, but allows you to do what you want when it works  :/
[12:09] <Iorek> :)
[12:10] <|trey|> For instance, it states apps shouldn't use tabs... grrrrrrr
[12:10] <|trey|> although it would seem thats been pretty much ignored, thank god
[12:11] <micX> olojo, np. glad to help...:)
[12:11] <Iorek> trey hear hear
[12:11] <Iorek> grm
[12:11] <Iorek> no fasttrack plugin
[12:13] <Jisao> Just finished installing Ubuntu.  Nice. Is there a way to put a graphic image to the boot screen?
[12:13] <Jisao> Grub
[12:13] <Iorek> yes
[12:14] <Iorek> it's somewhere in Ubuntu artwork
[12:14] <Iorek> they provide a nice splash screen, plus insstructions
[12:14] <Jisao> ok.  I saw that package unpack.  Will have to find my way around it.
[12:14] <_ranman_> Ubuntu has the grub patch?
[12:14] <nate> patch?
[12:14] <Iorek> no no, hold on
[12:14] <_ranman_> patch for the graphical boot...
[12:14] <_ranman_> other than just color..
[12:15] <nate> ah
[12:15] <Iorek> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuArtwork
[12:15] <Iorek> bottom
[12:15] <Iorek> "Grub Logo background"
[12:15] <Jisao> It installed in 65 minutes, including the time I used to figure out the partitioner so I would not destroy anything on hda (I installed on hdb)
[12:15] <nate> a computer that hides its boot process from me is one that could be plotting my imminent demise
[12:15] <Jisao> tx
[12:16] <Iorek> nate: F2 ;)
[12:16] <Jisao> it's fine with me, other than being to fast on the 3 - 2 - 1.
[12:18] <Jisao> Anyway, got to go, work awaits.  But I wanted to check the #ubuntu channel before I left.  Tx
[12:18] <_ranman_> where is trey? Seems late for the western world...
[12:19] <|trey|> _ranman_: Arizona
[12:19] <|trey|> And yes... its 3:20 am
[12:19] <_ranman_> hmmm, ic said the blind man...
[12:19] <_ranman_> You do not sleep?
[12:19] <nate> sleep is for the zzzs
[12:19] <|trey|> I do... just kinda nocturnal  :)
[12:20] <hypatia> Any epiphany users about?
[12:20] <_ranman_> ic.. oh well I remember when I was your age, I only slept 1 hour a night..
[12:20] <|trey|> hypatia: use firefox or feel my wrath
[12:20] <hypatia> I want to ask about adding javascript bookmarklets so that they actually pop up, rather than open over the top of the current page
[12:20] <|trey|> _ranman_: oh, I get pleanty of sleep... just rarely at normal hours  :)
[12:20] <hypatia> |trey|: hack on it so that it stops crashing all the time, or feel my wrath
[12:21] <smeggy> hey hypatia
[12:21] <smeggy> i cant help you
[12:21] <smeggy> but i wanna know something
[12:21] <smeggy> and this isnt being a pain im serious
[12:21] <|trey|> hypatia: try the new upload  :/
[12:21] <smeggy> why do you choose to use it over firefox?
[12:21] <|trey|> smeggy: apparently because firefox keeps crashing  :/
[12:21] <hypatia> smeggy: because firefox crashes all the time
[12:21] <smeggy> !?
[12:21] <smeggy> !! meh
[12:21] <smeggy> lies ;)
[12:21] <hypatia> smeggy: because it has the location bar hiding interface
[12:22] <nate> firefox crashes?
[12:22] <|trey|> hypatia: I would rather reopen firefox then install epiphany though  :/
[12:22] <Iorek> hmmmh...hotplugging my usb-stick still doesn't work
[12:22] <hypatia> and because epiphany saves the current session if it crashes (which it does, but less frequently than firefox)
[12:22] <|trey|> I hate the concept of installing 2 browsers to use one  :/
[12:22] <hypatia> I just lost 40 tabs, so I'm a bit fed up with firefox.
[12:22] <nate> 40? yow
[12:22] <_ranman_> trey, a billion windoze users can't be wrong..
[12:22] <micX> firefox crashes frequently ? ? ?
[12:23] <hypatia> Also, firefox regularly gets into a state where the keybindings (Ctrl+Q, Ctrl+W) stop working
[12:23] <smeggy> i gotta say one thing
[12:23] <smeggy> unfortunately firefox seems best on windows
[12:23] <smeggy> than any other platform heh
[12:23] <|trey|> _ranman_: huh? the fact that they are using winblows discredits their opinion to start with...
[12:23] <nate> say hmm
[12:23] <nate> I like it on Linux
[12:23] <hypatia> Also, it sometimes looses the ability to paste into textboxes, and the find-as-you-type thing sometimes activates at random while I'm typing in *a text box*
[12:23] <hypatia> So, firefox is not kind to me.
[12:24] <nate> yes, the default theme looks XP-ish, but I don't mind. It's pretty.
[12:24] <|trey|> hypatia: still doesn't make you install another browser to use it  [shrug] 
[12:24] <hypatia> micX: yes, it crashes after three or four hours of use for me.
[12:24] <nate> hmm
[12:24] <_ranman_> hmmm, my firefox died after last upgrade....
[12:24] <|trey|> nate: there is an industrial theme for firefox... I use that...
[12:24] <_ranman_> have to use galeon...
[12:24] <nate> can't say I've had the same problems with it
[12:24] <_ranman_> sigh...
[12:24] <hypatia> |trey|: I'm not trying to convince everyone else, I'm trying to justify something that seems incredible to everyone here.
[12:24] <hypatia> |trey|: and now I'll stop
[12:24] <|trey|> hypatia: good job
[12:24] <|trey|> hypatia: try #gnome... they appear to like epiphany  :)
[12:25] <micX> hypatia, weird. must be having 40 tabs or something. I have a sid box upstairs that has about a dozen tabs for a month.
[12:25] <|trey|> hypatia: every gnome based distro replaces epiphany... there is a reason for that  :)
[12:26] <hypatia> |trey|: ok, well, since you guys are so keen to have me using firefox...
[12:26] <hypatia> 1. how do I get it to stay up>
[12:26] <LoneTech> I much prefer Galeon personally.
[12:26] <hypatia> 2. how do I get it to remember the session when it crashes? (there's one extension for it, but it also crashes firefox)
[12:26] <_ranman_> I rather dislike Galeon after they started the recoding for GTK 2
[12:26] <Iorek> Ubuntu is already 60th on Distrowatch...in two months it'll have replaced Mandrake as the most popular distro!
[12:26] <Iorek> maybe :P
[12:26] <hypatia> 3. what do I do when it stops responding to keybindings?
[12:26] <|trey|> hypatia: umm... mines been running for *checks uptime* 4 days
[12:26] <nate> 60th, hmm?
[12:26] <micX> hypatia, I read some spam about that. quick delivery too.
[12:26] <LoneTech> though recently it seems to have problems with unicode conversions and finding itself
[12:26] <nate> what did it start at?
[12:27] <hypatia> 4. what do I do when it doesn't let me copy out of it
[12:27] <hypatia> 5. what do I do when it doesn't let me copy into it?
[12:27] <Iorek> nate nowhere. But couple of days after the release it was 100th
[12:27] <LoneTech> _ranman_: it took a while before the core features returned. still missing some of the session handling, or I just haven't found it.
[12:27] <Iorek> been on the rise every day
[12:27] <_ranman_> hypatia is having major problems with firefox... Sounds like no memory...
[12:28] <hypatia> Hmmm, looks like in some cases javascript bookmarklets actually mork in epiphany, so maybe the question is moot
[12:28] <hypatia> _ranman_: are you talking neural or hardware? hardware I have 512MB
[12:28] <nate> eeagh
[12:28] <_ranman_> haha, maybe both... 
[12:28] <nate> After applying the latest updates from Synaptic, I'm being prompted for my video card
[12:28] <_ranman_> I seem to have problems similar with X becomes too bogged..
[12:28] <nate> heck if I know what it is, it's an onboard flavour-of-the-week
[12:29] <nate> time to see if Device Manager works
[12:29] <micX> nate, I'm at 96% upgrade...
[12:29] <nate> oh good it is a Trident
[12:29] <smeggy> nate, cat /etc/X11/XF86Config and see what the original one said if that doesnt work.
[12:29] <nate> Cyberblade
[12:30] <LoneTech> that's the one via epia has, isn't it?
[12:30] <sanitario> huh, a reboot fixed gnome. 
[12:30] <nate> it suggested Trident but I wasn't sure why it wanted my confirmation
[12:30] <Iorek> sanitario: it becomes more like Windows!
[12:30] <sanitario> Iorek, sadly
[12:31] <Iorek> well, actually, no amount of reboots ever fixed windows...
[12:31] <smeggy> Iorek, untrue, reboot with a Linux distro of your choice CD1 in your optical drive ;)
[12:31] <micX> nate, heh I have that trident screen up now. we must have similar boxen...
[12:31] <opi^work> nate: better
[12:31] <sanitario> Iorek, too true ... 
[12:31] <opi^work> nate: they can resolve deps
[12:32] <opi^work> nate: watch for config files
[12:32] <Iorek> smeggy I always love the look on people's faces when I boot their borked winbox with Mandrake Move...
[12:32] <Iorek> "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!"
[12:32] <opi^work> nate: there's dist-upgrde 
[12:32] <smeggy> Iorek, nice one lol
[12:32] <|trey|> Iorek: a deb in simplest description: preinst script... tar.gz file... postinst script... pre checks deps... tar.gz is the app + patches usually, post is config
[12:32] <nate> modern .rpm systems can resolve dependencies now, with yum
[12:32] <nate> but that's fairly recent
[12:33] <micX> nate, are you doing anything different at boot with acpi ?
[12:33] <nate> it's the 'installing a .deb causes it to possibly wait for user input with configuration questions' thing that I find unexpected
[12:33] <|trey|> nate: they could with urpmi, up2date, yast-packagemanager, red carpet etc for a while...
[12:33] <nate> oh right, Red Carpet, I'd forgotten about that
[12:33] <opi^work> nate: debs can configure before being installed
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: imagine, it's oftpd
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: when you apt-get it it will ask for
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: port, user, and workdir
[12:34] <deFrysk> nate, yum originates from yellow dog linux , and is not the only rpm installer/updater wich resolves deps
[12:34] <nate> hmm
[12:34] <|trey|> nate: thats debconfs doing... its configures packages so its at least usable in YOUR environment...
[12:34] <Iorek> and then I have to explain that PC does NOT equal WIN95...no, I don't care how much you know about PCs...or claim to know...YES it is possible to run a PC without windows...NO sir, your pc is actually the grey box, not the screen...
[12:34] <opi^work> nate: same goes with SMTP
[12:34] <Iorek> *sigh*
[12:34] <|trey|> nate: asking is better then guessing imo
[12:35] <nate> deFrysk: yeah, I've been mostly a Red Hat person so yum was the first autoresolving rpm updater I saw
[12:35] <Iorek> apt4rpm
[12:35] <nate> though I did have a brief fling with apt
[12:35] <micX> Resolved address "xml::/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults" to a writable configuration source at position 0
[12:35] <nate> but Synaptic wasn't terribly pleasant to use with Fedora
[12:35] <micX> useful info. thanks apt :)
[12:36] <nate> something about RPMs being scattered around lots of different repositories made it ugly to use. Ubuntu's seems a lot more friendly.
[12:36] <Iorek> I rather like Yast....I just don't like the KDE flavour that much
[12:36] <smeggy> well obviously.. it.. uh resolved that address.. to a writable configuration source at position 0!
[12:36] <smeggy> very useful! :P
[12:36] <LoneTech> I prefer aptitude personally.
[12:36] <nate> We've started using SuSE at work (we're a Novell shop) so I may make yast's acquaintance a bit more
[12:37] <|trey|> LoneTech: aptitude = apt-get for people that hate themselves
[12:37] <Iorek> Suse's the one that enabled me to switch
[12:37] <Iorek> learned a lot
[12:37] <nate> heh
[12:37] <sanitario> so noone uses synaptic? 
[12:37] <nate> which is recommended to use, aptitude or apt-get?
[12:37] <smeggy> I do.
[12:37] <nate> I use Synaptic myself
[12:37] <Iorek> sanitario: it's apt-get, isn't it? ;)
[12:37] <|trey|> sanitario: nah... makes life harder  :/
[12:37] <micX> nate, are you doing anything different at boot with acpi ? (repeat Q)
[12:37] <micX> apt-get here.
[12:37] <LoneTech> it's the orphan feature and new/obsolete listings I like.
[12:38] <LoneTech> and that it's so much faster than dselect
[12:38] <nate> micX: why are you asking me? oh, is that about the IRQ error I mentioned way back?
[12:38] <|trey|> Iorek: no... synaptic, gnome-apt, kpackage (the deb version), apt-get etc all are frontends for dpkg-deb
[12:38] <micX> yesterday, or so. we both have similar hw
[12:38] <Iorek> trey ah, didn't know that :)
[12:39] <Iorek> by the way, in Ubuntu the "history" plugin in Gaim does absolutely nothing
[12:39] <|trey|> missed out aptitude and dselect... but yeah, you get the idea  :)
[12:39] <nate> what's gnome-apt like?
[12:39] <sanitario> Iorek, well, yes? 
[12:39] <|trey|> Iorek: umm, yeah it does, turn on logging...
[12:39] <sanitario> sort of. 
[12:39] <sanitario> |trey|, harder, in what way? 
[12:40] <nate> is there a way to apply .debs silently? I assume there is, as that would be an essential feature for admining a server, and Debian seems to be used for that a lot.
[12:40] <Iorek> trey I check "history", but no new submeny of "plugins" appears so I can't check logging :)
[12:40] <|trey|> sanitario: as in I have to play with a ui, or stop it from bringing along suggests and recommends all the time
[12:40] <|trey|> apt-get + apt-cache = just easier in every way.
[12:41] <LoneTech> nate: you can tweak the priority of questions to ask for debconf, and have it use different interfaces. I believe one uses email. Not so sure about the config file replacements though
[12:41] <nate> hmm
[12:41] <LoneTech> I haven't looked into non-interactive updates much
[12:41] <sanitario> |trey|, ah, I can see your point about the gui, but I really think it's nice for first-time users
[12:41] <sanitario> at least it seems to be
[12:41] <nate> but no way to do it completely automagically for a remote server?
[12:41] <_ranman_> trey: I have to agree with you for when you have a full system already installed...
[12:41] <LoneTech> you *can*, but that means assuming answers to those questions.
[12:41] <nate> well, sure
[12:42] <micX> nate, google use an upgrade system based on apt and remote automatic upgrading.
[12:42] <LoneTech> I'm not sure how though.
[12:42] <|trey|> sanitario: they were my biggest hurdles when I started using debian...
[12:42] <nate> I would have assumed that it would leave config settings exactly unchanged
[12:42] <|trey|> When I discovered apt-get, I became addicted
[12:42] <nate> if upgrading
[12:42] <LoneTech> it's fairly easy to clone debconf replies and package selections
[12:42] <micX> nate, there was atalk at LCA in Adelaide about it.
[12:42] <|trey|> If that tool didn't exist, I would never consider Debian
[12:42] <nate> that's why I was very suprised when I got prompted when upgrading
[12:42] <nate> since that's not a thing RPM ever does
[12:43] <sanitario> |trey|, same here. apt-get + apt-cache + auto-apt is pure love
[12:43] <vrln> what's auto-apt?
[12:43] <LoneTech> nate: yes, ordinarily. but debconf will ask *new* questions, and if a config file was altered locally and between package versions, that needs to be resolved.
[12:43] <nate> Is that because Debian allows you to do a complete seamless upgrade, whereas RPM systems usually have break-points between major releases?
[12:43] <LoneTech> when I compared them at first RPM had no concept of a config file; it quietly overwrote anything I had changed. I expect that is no longer the case.
[12:43] <Iorek> that'll teach me to click "History" 25 times in one second :P
[12:44] <|trey|> sanitario: auto-apt hates me... I just use the us mirror and the berkeley mirror... never slower then 500kb/s
[12:44] <|trey|> umm, ignore that...
[12:44] <|trey|> vrln: auto-apt installs packages that provide something you try to do...
[12:44] <LoneTech> nate: pretty much, I guess
[12:44] <nate> LoneTech: depends how the RPM is written. I think the current best practice is to create a '.rpmnew' file with new settings if the old one exists
[12:44] <|trey|> so if you type lsof, but its not installed, auto-apt will install it
[12:44] <LoneTech> right. that's what debian does if you answer to keep your old config.
[12:45] <vrln> nice to know, I'll check it out :) thanks
[12:45] <LoneTech> writes a .dpkg-new version
[12:45] <nate> but since I've never really trusted RPM to upgrade from one major Red Hat / Fedora release to another, I've always done complete system erases and rebuilds, which is kind of a pain
[12:45] <LoneTech> certainly is.
[12:45] <|trey|> vrln: also, apt-file is also nice... searches database for something that provides a file you might need...
[12:46] <|trey|> vrln: very useful when compiling things
[12:46] <sanitario> vrln, be sure to check out auto-apt search <file>
[12:46] <sanitario> |trey|, you can do that with auto-apt also
[12:46] <LoneTech> but coming from debian, I was really surprised when Xandros, a debian-based distro, expected people to do this "install the new version by booting the CD" routine
[12:46] <|trey|> sanitario: ahh... k... didn't know that  :)
[12:46] <nate> How many Debian spinoffs have there been so far?
[12:46] <Iorek> a lot
[12:47] <nate> for some reason Ubuntu is the first that's caught my eye
[12:47] <|trey|> nate: last I counted... 34
[12:47] <Iorek> Xandros is Debian
[12:47] <nate> yeah, and UserLinux
[12:47] <jblack> Progeny. :) 
[12:47] <nate> mmm
[12:47] <LoneTech> debian.org has a list of a few iirc
[12:47] <|trey|> about 15 of which are actually Knoppix spinoffs, but ok...
[12:47] <lyp|lunch> ubuntu is my reason to switch back to linux from windows
[12:47] <nate> Oh right, Knoppix, I have played with that. Debian without noticing.
[12:47] <lyp|lunch> so it must be pretty impressive :P
[12:47] <nate> not that installing packages comes into it on Knoppix
[12:47] <Iorek> trey does the whole "minimised windows flashes" work with you in Gaim? :)
[12:48] <micX> censornet, knoppix, etc. etc.
[12:48] <|trey|> jblack: blah... sure Ian works there, but I don't like Progeny... trying to make my sources.list huge doesn't sit well with me  :/
[12:48] <nate> I think Ubuntu is going to bring a whole bunch of people to Debian
[12:48] <|trey|> nate: hopefully...
[12:48] <nate> I have been somewhat pissed-off with Red Hat since RHL split into Enterprise Linux and Fedora
[12:48] <|trey|> nate: that attitude is kinda moronic..
[12:49] <|trey|> if you didn't pay for rhl, you use fedora... if you did you use rhel... not that hard to figure out...
[12:49] <nate> yes
[12:49] <nate> but the problem is they are now no longer the same product
[12:49] <nate> there is no guarantee that by playing with Fedora you have any idea what's in RHEL
[12:49] <|trey|> How is that a problem?
[12:49] <Iorek> tried to install Fedora....FC1, one year ago. distro's have improved a LOT since then
[12:49] <nate> so, hence, no real reason to use a Red Hat-like distro at home
[12:50] <nate> which was my main reason for 'sticking with the market leader'
[12:50] <|trey|> nate: umm, thats just not true... FC 3 == RHEL4 + value added stuff (application server etc)
[12:50] <LoneTech> much like mozilla-netscape, openoffice-staroffice and such pairings..
[12:50] <nate> that's nice, but I don't really care any longer
[12:51] <nate> I don't feel I have any 'brand loyalty' to Fedora unless it's a good home distro
[12:51] <|trey|> LoneTech: not really, they are fair closer then either of those examples...
[12:51] <Iorek> the whole red hat thing didn't bother me...I just don't like Fedora's look n feel
[12:51] <LoneTech> ok
[12:51] <|trey|> nate: which it is.
[12:51] <nate> well
[12:51] <nate> Ubuntu feels better for me
[12:51] <nate> Fedora 3 may be okay
[12:51] <Iorek> it'll still have the hat
[12:52] <|trey|> nate: your argument is not valid at all... although the fact that people like you exist is proof that they went about it wrong...
[12:52] <Iorek> I don't want to click a hat or a lizard
[12:52] <nate> yes
[12:52] <Iorek> I want to click a FOOT
[12:52] <nate> They also lost me at Fedora 2
[12:52] <micX> redhat's ok. I just dont want to run it.
[12:52] <LoneTech> not a K?
[12:52] <|trey|> Iorek: then change the icon theme
[12:52] <nate> the reason I didn't upgrade is that when it came out, it was not compatible with the nVidia binary drivers
[12:52] <Iorek> nah, I replaced the K in Suse with a penguin :)
[12:52] <Iorek> trey I did ;)
[12:52] <nate> and when asked about it they said 'meh, we don't care'
[12:52] <nate> so, well, shrug
[12:52] <LoneTech> oddly, mom got confused by that point. She didn't know how to start things, never ocurred to her to try the same place as windows
[12:53] <nate> mind you, I'm not sure if Ubuntu is either...
[12:53] <Iorek> *grin*
[12:53] <nate> if it isn't I may end up not putting it on my main box
[12:53] <|trey|> nate: their attitude is such that if people are THAT confused, perhaps they will think they now HAVE to pay, and will, they make money, oh well...
[12:53] <nate> sure, if it works for them that's great. I wish them well.
[12:53] <|trey|> nate: but they have always stated that RHEL will be a slimmed down version of Fedora with value added features...
[12:54] <nate> Um
[12:54] <nate> they've stated, I believe, that RHEL will be 'based on' Fedora technology in some vaguely unspecified manner
[12:54] <|trey|> ie xfce4 won't be included
[12:54] <vrln> and 5 years of security support iirc
[12:55] <Iorek> MS Linux
[12:55] <Iorek> I'd try it
[12:55] <Iorek> :P
[12:55] <LoneTech> nah, but Digital Research.. oh wait, I did that already.
[12:55] <|trey|> nate: umm, their customizations will remain, their config tools will remain, everything will remain, except they won't include all packages, and they will include things like java, realplayer (instead of helix), application server, directory server, things like this... plus you get support...
[12:55] <nate> I guess I just feel that if the Linux I use at home isn't going to be *identical* to the Linux I use at work, I'd rather have a home Linux that is customised for the home.
[12:56] <LoneTech> any other non-proud Network Desktop 1.0 owners here?
[12:56] <Iorek> ? :)
[12:56] <Iorek> no :)
[12:56] <|trey|> nate: umm, fedora is customized for the home...
[12:56] <LoneTech> have any of you even heard of Wabi then?
[12:56] <nate> Not really.
[12:56] <nate> It doesn't have any multimedia stuff
[12:57] <Mithrandir> nate: we ship the nvidia drivers, though.
[12:57] <|trey|> nate: it actually does, check out Red Hat Desktop sometime  :/
[12:57] <nate> What is Red Hat Desktop?
[12:57] <Iorek> installing mp3 support is rather easy too
[12:57] <nate> oh, RHEL Desktop?
[12:57] <nate> er, RHEL Workstation or whatever?
[12:57] <|trey|> nate: no, redhat desktop
[12:58] <nate> what is that?
[12:58] <|trey|> not rhel ws
[12:58] <|trey|> its a desktop product that has support
[12:58] <nate> ...
[12:58] <nate> okay, now I'm officially confused
[12:58] <nate> this is yet another fork of Red Hat?
[12:58] <nate> a non RHEL, non Fedora third distro?
[12:58] <LoneTech> didn't the undrop desktop or something other weird?
[12:59] <LoneTech> it seems they are being confusing.
[12:59] <|trey|> nate: rhel as - application server, rhel ws - corporate desktop, rhel es - enterprise server, rh desktop - home desktop
[12:59] <|trey|> then Fedora, free download open developement
[12:59] <nate> hmm
[12:59] <nate> when did RH Desktop come out?
[12:59] <|trey|> last year
[12:59] <nate> hmm
[12:59] <nate> Interesting
[01:00] <LoneTech> ah, and naturally "Desktop" is under the "Enterprise Linux" category.
[01:00] <nate> How is Desktop related to Fedora and RHEL?
[01:00] <nate> same as RHEL?
[01:00] <nate> or different upgrade schedule, or what?
[01:00] <|trey|> LoneTech: yes, but its not part of its name... because then it would be confused with RHEL WS  :)
[01:00] <nate> this is what I mean. The product's fracturing into multiple confusing incompatible things.
[01:01] <|trey|> nate: its supported, it has media codecs etc... you pay for it.
[01:01] <nate> Like Apple in the mid-90s
[01:01] <nate> what's the price?
[01:01] <|trey|> nate: I'm not confused... I read the site, and what the devels have to say on the matter....
[01:01] <|trey|> same as RHL
[01:01] <|trey|> < $100
[01:02] <nate> so, what's the difference between Desktop and WS?
[01:02] <LoneTech> http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/comparison/
[01:03] <micX> erm. isn't this the ubuntu channel? Why are we discussing redhat interminably?
[01:03] <smeggy> we're nerds
[01:03] <smeggy> we could talk about Iranian Jerds if the mood struck us
[01:03] <Iorek> that's an answer to EVERYTHING
[01:03] <|trey|> nate: umm, one is meant for home use, the other is meant as a client
[01:04] <Iorek> yeah, Iranian flavour of Linux...
[01:04] <Iorek> it probably exists
[01:04] <|trey|> micX: bring something else up... redhat is the current subject... and I'm not tired enough to attempt sleep.
[01:04] <nate> hmm
[01:04] <Iorek> how do you install a downloaded deb package? :P
[01:04] <nate> looking at this I don't see the difference between RHEL WS and Desktop
[01:04] <|trey|> micX: most normal people are asleep, no harm no foul
[01:05] <micX> dpkg -i package
[01:05] <Iorek> asleep? at 1 pm?
[01:05] <|trey|> nate: I just told you... you don't listen do you?
[01:05] <Iorek> micX: thanks :)
[01:05] <|trey|> Iorek: try 4  ;)
[01:05] <micX> Iorek, you're welcome :)
[01:05] <|trey|> am
[01:05] <nate> |trey|: Yes, you told me one is 'meant' for something... 'meant' doesn't mean anything to me.
[01:06] <LoneTech> nate: they didn't include the "enterprise" kernel package and less phone support. huge difference, isn't it?
[01:06] <|trey|> LoneTech: actually, all the kernels are the same (according to the kernel hackers)
[01:06] <nate> Less support is the only thing I can see on the comparison chart.
[01:07] <|trey|> nate: ...
[01:07] <nate> So, hmm. For some reason I was under the impression that the boxed set had vanished.
[01:07] <|trey|> Thats really the only difference... other then what I said  :/
[01:07] <LoneTech> trey: sure, but the official comparison list claims the "Desktop" edition doesn't support SMP or >4GB memory. that would be the old "enterprise" kernel config iirc.
[01:07] <|trey|> nate: Fedora has no box set... you have to pay for a box set  :/
[01:07] <|trey|> funk that noice
[01:07] <Iorek> trey and in your case, that's am, I presume? ;)
[01:07] <|trey|> noise
[01:08] <|trey|> Iorek: I already said that
[01:08] <nate> I guess 'Desktop' is sort of like Mandrake Official maybe?
[01:08] <Iorek> trey I missed it :P
[01:08] <Iorek> brb
[01:08] <|trey|> nate: no
[01:09] <|trey|> nate: forget mandrake... comparisons confuse people
[01:09] <nate> It's a very confusing product line, I think.
[01:09] <nate> not easily understood at a glance
[01:09] <nate> I would have expected maybe two server variants, one workstation
[01:10] <|trey|> nate: not at all, you have just been brainwashed by the fud about it, and don't understand how corporations buy software...
[01:10] <nate> and maybe a 'Home' edition with extra glitz, such as bundled games
[01:10] <nate> er
[01:10] <nate> Well, they did kind of fud themselves, really.
[01:10] <|trey|> nate: thats EXACTLY what they did do.. 
[01:10] <|trey|> AS and ES = server, WS = workstation... desktop = home edition
[01:11] <nate> But 'Desktop' is a very coy kind of name. It doesn't position itself as either 'home' or 'work'. It sort of suggests a little of both, and neither.
[01:11] <nate> at least in this comparison chart
[01:11] <micX> the fudmeisters at redhat have played into Ubunu's hands...
[01:11] <Iorek> there...
[01:11] <|trey|> micX: fudmeisters in the press*
[01:11] <Iorek> guifications works. History still doesn't. Ah well :)
[01:11] <|trey|> Ubuntu's*
[01:11] <|trey|> Iorek: TURN ON LOGGING!!!
[01:12] <|trey|> history won't work if it has nothing to print at the top of the screen
[01:12] <Iorek> trey TOLD ja, I can't :)
[01:12] <|trey|> Iorek: I don't recall, why can't you?
[01:12] <Iorek> trey normally when you heck the history plugin, a new submenu of "Plugins" appears, right?
[01:12] <Iorek> and there you can turn on logging
[01:13] <Iorek> or maybe it doesn't
[01:13] <Iorek> hmmmh
[01:13] <|trey|> Iorek: blah... you're not listening... tools >> preferences >> logging >> log all instante messages
[01:13] <|trey|> then try again
[01:13] <Iorek> hey, they moved the log-preferences! :P
[01:13] <|trey|> it will work
[01:13] <|trey|> as if by magic
[01:14] <Iorek> trey you are right, I am wrong, and I humbly apologise :P
[01:14] <|trey|> Iorek: I play with GAIM more then any other program...
[01:14] <|trey|> I'm a teenager, and a lot of hot chicks bug me  8)
[01:14] <Iorek> trey in that case, there's another thing that doesn't work ;)
[01:15] <|trey|> Iorek: whats that?
[01:15] <Iorek> the "minimised windows flash when you have a new message" thing
[01:15] <Iorek> putting numbers in front of them works just fine
[01:15] <micX> channel score: Ubuntu:217 Debian:730 redhat:74 gentoo:863 fedora:319
[01:16] <|trey|> Iorek: hmm, haven't played with that... use queing here...
[01:16] <nate> gentoo?
[01:16] <|trey|> micX: damn, Debian is getting more and more packed all the time.
[01:16] <Iorek> maybe it's a gnome thing, I haven't seen ANY windows flash :)
[01:16] <|trey|> nate: tell me you're kidding.
[01:16] <|trey|> nate: and I don't recommend you try it.
[01:17] <Iorek> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/
[01:17] <|trey|> almost certainly way over your head
[01:17] <nate> Last time I tried it it didn't compile
[01:17] <Iorek> start installing
[01:17] <Iorek> *grin*
[01:17] <nate> |trey| pbbbbfffft
[01:17] <|trey|> Iorek: stfu, don't tell morons to install gentoo
[01:17] <|trey|> nate: no offense
[01:17] <nate> |trey| Actually, that was pretty offensive.
[01:18] <jblack> I agree with nate. That was just plain rude
[01:18] <Iorek> I always got stuck at the grub config
[01:18] <micX> nate, gentoo is ok, if you have a week or so spare :)
[01:18] <nate> It seems like it should be more fun than it turned out to be
[01:18] <|trey|> jblack: I'll get over it  :/
[01:18] <LoneTech> I find grub easy, but maybe that's because I've messed with PCs since dos 2 and have actually modified grub a few times.
[01:18] <nate> One day I may try it again
[01:19] <Iorek> one day I'll fly away...
[01:19] <|trey|> ps, it was meant to be  :/
[01:19] <nate> right, I've had about enough of that
[01:19] <nate> I think it's time I rebooted to see what the update fairy brought me
[01:19] <nate> bye all
[01:19] <micX> nate, I sorta gave up on it. every time I wanted to update the machine would be grinding for hours. Be good on cable internet with a fast box, I guess.
[01:19] <|trey|> Gentoo isn't peticularly friendly to a 950 Duron  :/
[01:20] <LoneTech> eh? reboot, why?
[01:20] <Iorek> haven't tried that much yet...year ago I knew next to nothing and couldn't get Fedore Core 1 installed/configged. Pretty obvious I couldn't get Debian to work either...:)
[01:20] <|trey|> LoneTech: my thoughts exactly  :/
[01:20] <Iorek> or Gentoo
[01:20] <Iorek> or Arch
[01:21] <|trey|> Iorek: Anaconda was my first installer for a linux distro... never had an issue with it...
[01:21] <|trey|> Mandrakes installer was pita though
[01:21] <Iorek> trey installing wasn't a problem, but installing soft was. COnfiguring the samba server was impossible for me atm
[01:21] <|trey|> Probably the most annoying installer I have witnessed.
[01:21] <micX> Iorek, good to have a spare 'play' box for that stuff...
[01:22] <lypanov> its a shame that mdk is the only distro i know that digs my laptop
[01:22] <lypanov> with ubuntu for example i had to add the modeline manually :(
[01:22] <lypanov> this kinda sucks imo
[01:22] <Iorek> micX: I know, and I didn't ;) But I knew hoc to create and delete partitions
[01:22] <|trey|> lypanov: I hate that distro... for a userfriendly distro, it sure hates the fuck outta me  :/
[01:22] <lypanov> |trey|: nod
[01:23] <LoneTech> I would have been really surprised if ubuntu had set up X right on my laptop, but I was only mildly surprised that it left me with a config that couldn't have worked anywhere.
[01:23] <Iorek> I don't like it either...for some reason, when I wanted to install soft that was on the CDs, it kept spitting them out again
[01:23] <Iorek> "This is not the CD you just installed me with, fuckhead. Give me the right one"
[01:23] <Iorek> "Er..."
[01:24] <|trey|> Iorek: urpmi  :/
[01:24] <lypanov> lol
[01:24] <|trey|> Ubuntu is the first distro in 2 years that I installed from a CD  :/
[01:24] <Iorek> trey didn't work :) Oh, and up2date in Fedora is another exercise in futility
[01:25] <|trey|> that actually worked nicely in FC1... after I converted some yum and apt repo's to its format  :/
[01:25] <|trey|> FC2 no such luck though, but yum is also improving, so whatever  :/
[01:26] <Iorek> 'xactly. the normal repo sucks minotaur genitalia
[01:26] <|trey|> Most of the aesthetic changes to yum were cuz I kept saying up2date's appearence looked cleaner  :)
[01:27] <|trey|> Iorek: its the most popular distro dude... and they don't redirect to other mirrors... Debian servers would be just as bad if it didn't redirect...
[01:27] <Iorek> but they do :)
[01:27] <|trey|> ftp.debian.org and ftp.us.debian.org etc redirect  :)
[01:27] <Iorek> which is the whole shish kebab
[01:28] <|trey|> Quite nice... although sometimes they get the redirecting HORRIBLY wrong  :(
[01:28] <|trey|> Iorek: I cringe when I see download speeds lower then 400kb/s  :(
[01:28] <|trey|> spoiled I tell you  :)
[01:28] <Iorek> Ubuntu is still small so I guess that's not a problem...
[01:28] <Iorek> heheh
[01:28] <Iorek> quite :P
[01:28] <Iorek> okay, food
[01:29] <Iorek> and socks
[01:29] <Iorek> socks would be nice too
[01:29] <|trey|> haha @ stupid bitches  "you can't love her, you can't, because I love you"  *slap*
[01:29] <|trey|> "but I let you inside me, you can't love her"
[01:29] <|trey|> hahahhahahahah
[01:29] <|trey|> ne ways what were we talking about?
[01:30] <|trey|>  I think its time for sleep here too  :(
[01:31] <Iorek> night :)
[01:39] <lonewolff> hi, is there a ubuntu php4-mysql package?
[01:40] <micX> lonewolff, yep: php4-mysql - MySQL module for php4
[01:41] <lonewolff> it doesent seem to be on the default ubuntu mirrors tho
[01:41] <lonewolff> i tried sudo apt-get install php4-mysql
[01:41] <micX> lonewolff, apt-cache search <searchstring> is your friend
[01:42] <micX> lonewolff, maybe it's in universe.
[01:43] <lonewolff> universe? sorry im new to apt
[01:43] <micX> yea. you have to uncomment it, in /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:43] <lonewolff> oh ok 
[01:43] <lonewolff> ill do that now
[01:43] <micX> then apt-get update
[01:44] <micX> lonewolff, it's def, in universe: Filename: pool/universe/p/php4/php4-mysql_4.3.8-3ubuntu6_i386.deb
[01:44] <lonewolff> ok thanx
[01:44] <lonewolff> im just updating my apt now after uncommenting universe
[02:00] <imka> i got a few problems
[02:00] <joem> ask away
[02:00] <imka> i can't play my audio/video files
[02:00] <imka> i got mp3's in /home
[02:01] <imka> and when i doubleclick the file it opens totem and tells me that "can not open resource for writing"
[02:01] <imka> i have sound working in tvtime
[02:01] <imka> (tv watching app)
[02:01] <joem> is this totem-gstreamer?
[02:02] <imka> it tells me the same in rhythmbox
[02:03] <joem> install gstreamer-mad from universe
[02:03] <seb128> gstreamer0.8-mad
[02:04] <imka> it's installed
[02:04] <seb128> run gstreamer-properties
[02:04] <seb128> select the esdsink for audio
[02:05] <seb128> and try again ?
[02:06] <imka> as root or as user?
[02:07] <joem> user
[02:08] <imka> no succes
[02:08] <imka> same error
[02:08] <seb128> what does it says ?
[02:08] <seb128> esd is running ?
[02:09] <seb128> try the alsa/oss sinks and click on test
[02:09] <imka> can not open resource for writing
[02:09] <imka> /dev/dsp: no such device
[02:09] <seb128> oh
[02:10] <seb128> what's your soundcard ?
[02:10] <imka> via82xx
[02:10] <imka> i have sound in tvtime
[02:10] <seb128> ls /dev/dsp*
[02:11] <imka> /dev/dsp  /dev/dsp1
[02:12] <seb128> with "osssink device=/dev/dsp1" as audiosink in gstreamer-properties
[02:12] <seb128> does it work ?
[02:13] <imka> no it doesnt
[02:13] <imka> what source?
[02:15] <seb128> ?
[02:15] <imka> i'm installing all gstreamer plugins now
[02:15] <seb128> that's not a gstreamer problem
[02:15] <seb128> not a plugin problem at least
 /dev/dsp: no such device
[02:16] <seb128> apparently you have a soundcard config problem
[02:17] <imka> what can i do?
[02:18] <seb128> do you have several soundcards ?
[02:18] <imka> no.
[02:18] <seb128> lsmod | grep snd ?
[02:19] <imka> snd_via82xx            26660  1
[02:19] <imka> snd_ac97_codec         59268  1 snd_via82xx
[02:19] <imka> snd_mpu401_uart         7296  1 snd_via82xx
[02:19] <imka> snd_rawmidi            23232  1 snd_mpu401_uart
[02:19] <imka> snd_seq_device          7944  1 snd_rawmidi
[02:19] <imka> snd_bt87x              13640  1
[02:19] <imka> snd_pcm_oss            48168  0
[02:19] <imka> snd_mixer_oss          16640  3 snd_pcm_oss
[02:19] <imka> snd_pcm                85540  3 snd_via82xx,snd_bt87x,snd_pcm_oss
[02:19] <imka> snd_timer              23172  1 snd_pcm
[02:19] <imka> snd                    50660  10 snd_via82xx,snd_ac97_codec,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device,snd_bt87x,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer
[02:19] <imka> snd_page_alloc         11144  3 snd_via82xx,snd_bt87x,snd_pcm
[02:19] <imka> soundcore               9824  4 snd,bttv
[02:19] <imka> gameport                4736  2 snd_via82xx,analog
[02:19] <imka> i have a tvcard if that matters
[02:20] <imka> sorry for flooding
[02:20] <petemc> i just put an aic7xxx pci scsi adapter in my ubuntu box and it segfaults on boot
[02:21] <jblack> anybody have an ubuntu torrent ? 
[02:22] <housetier> jblack, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/
[02:23] <HcE> jblack: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Archive
[02:23] <seb128> imka: "cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp1" makes some sound ?
[02:23] <jblack> thanks
[02:25] <imka> seb128 no
[02:25] <imka> seb128 it has finally brought out some ugly crashing sound
[02:26] <imka> brrr that was loud :)
[02:26] <seb128> imka: ok, and using "osssink device=/dev/dsp1" doesn't work .
[02:26] <seb128> ?
[02:28] <imka> thanks seb128
[02:29] <seb128> np
[02:30] <imka> warty is a bit warty but i love it
[02:33] <imka> seb128 do you think it matters if i leave all the gstreamer plugins installed? i don't feel like going through them and see what i need/don't need
[02:34] <seb128> no problem to keep them
[02:34] <imka> what is gstreamer anyways?
[02:35] <imka> what apps use it?
[02:35] <mjr> it's a multimedia framework
[02:35] <patientfox> im curious is there any talk of ubuntu going to x.org?
[02:35] <mjr> some music players do, at least
[02:35] <jk> totem uses it, and a lot of other gnome stuff
[02:35] <patientfox> i see that warty uses xf86 4.3.0
[02:35] <micX> patientfox, next release.
[02:35] <patientfox> teehee
[02:35] <micX> patientfox, it's in the wiki
[02:35] <mjr> jk, is totem/gstreamer stable and usable for video playback nowadays?
[02:35] <imka> i think i'm gonna remove it. i prefer xmms and mplayer
[02:36] <jk> mjr: totem's never worked  for me...i always use mplayer
[02:36] <opi^work> re
[02:36] <patientfox> mplayer++
[02:36] <mjr> totem-xine works quite fine, but gstreamer has seemed a bit unfinished when it comes to video playback
[02:40] <opi^work> re |trey| :)
[02:41] <|trey|> How do you make Xchat not do its wierd alignment thing?
[02:41] <|trey|> I can't find the option
[02:41] <opi^work> |trey|: hmm, could you describe wierd aligment?
[02:42] <|trey|> The line it puts on the screen, I want that gone... 
[02:42] <opi^work> hrm..
[02:43] <tbw> trey: preferences, text box, uncheck "indent nicks"
[02:43] <|trey|> tbw: thanks... I'm blind  :)
[02:43] <|trey|> brb, getting rid of white boxes  :/
[02:45] <|trey|> ahh, much better  :)
[02:45] <|trey|> k, night time for me  :)
[02:53] <HcE> whoami
[02:53] <HcE> wrong windows ;)
[02:53] <HcE> s/windows/window/
[02:56] <Squad`nLeedah> evening all.
[02:56] <imka> afternoon here
[02:56] <imka> will there be an official ubuntu forum?
[02:57] <Squad`nLeedah> has anyone had any trouble with the install process halting on 81% and 'Detecting CD-ROM' with 'Linux Generic IDE' underneath it?
[02:58] <Squad`nLeedah> boots off the CD ok, but halts there
[02:59] <dutch> I installed Ubuntu Friday, from the CD, no problems
[03:00] <azeem> Squad`nLeedah: I heard about problems when burning CDs with DMA enabled or so, perhaps you could google for that
[03:00] <azeem> Squad`nLeedah: dunno if that is your issue, though
[03:00] <Kamion> it's more about booting the CD with DMA enabled as far as I know; recent daily CD builds disable DMA on CDs by default
[03:01] <Squad`nLeedah> so its a latest build i need?
[03:02] <Squad`nLeedah> or is there a boot parameter to disable DMA
[03:02] <Kamion> Squad`nLeedah: certainly worth a try, if you're currently installing from the preview or similar
[03:02] <Squad`nLeedah> hrmm
[03:04] <Squad`nLeedah> cheers guys
[03:10] <lothario> my system has usb1.1 - I've had no luck mounting usb stick, could this be the problem?
[03:11] <lothario> my cpu jumps to 99% when I plug in usb stick and dmesg returns repeatd I/O errors
[03:14] <Safari_Al> guys, what should I install for a java runtime environment & moz plugin on ubuntu?
[03:21] <topyli> I have Blackdown 1.4. This is in my sources.list: deb http://jopa.studentenweb.org/debian/ ./
[03:22] <topyli> Safari_Al
[03:23] <Safari_Al> topyli, thanks
[03:26] <imka> how do i edit the gnome menu? stupid question i know but i'm not used to it
[03:28] <topyli> imka: go to applications:/// in nautilus and edit away. you can also add, remove and edit the menu entries directly by right clicking them.
[03:28] <imka> thanks
[03:29] <Safari_Al> topyli, is menu editing really enabled in warty?
[03:29] <Safari_Al> that's a first 
[03:29] <topyli> Safari_Al: sure. why not?
[03:30] <topyli> it's not redhat :)
[03:30] <Safari_Al> haha
[03:31] <freethink> howdy
[03:32] <Safari_Al> howdy partner
[03:35] <freethink> does ubuntu come with support for smbfs in the kernel by default? how do i check this?
[03:36] <spiv> freethink: it's built as a module, yes.
[03:37] <spiv> freethink: as "modprobe smbfs" will demonstrate ;)
[03:40] <xTina> Hm. Anyone have an idea what's up with bugzilla? I tried to create an account the day the preview was released but never got an email. I subsequently tried two or three more times, it always told me that the account already existed, so I requested the password to be emailed to me. None of the mails arrived. Now (yesterday) I got the email with the password change request of September 29, which of course has expired in the meantime :(
[03:40] <freethink> thanks
[03:44] <|trey|> justdave: ping
[03:44] <|trey|> xTina: when justdave gets back, talk to him about it, he deals with that stuff  :)
[03:45] <xTina> |trey|: ok, thanks :)
[03:57] <mpjung> hmm... ubuntu looks quite nice (just installed it a few seconds ago)
[03:58] <mpjung> For some reason my graphic card is working at 60 Hz (yuk!), I couldn't choose my keyboard layout during the setup and the sudo root access doesn't work.
[03:59] <mpjung> (If I had root access I could easily fix those problems)
[04:00] <mpjung> Since I got also a debian install on my harddisk it's no big thing to change the password, but is there anything known about such problems, yet
[04:09] <|trey|> mpjung: define 'doesn't work'... typing user password?
[04:09] <mpjung> I
[04:10] <mpjung> i'm online using ubuntu right now
[04:10] <mpjung> so logging in as normal user was no problem
[04:10] <|trey|> mpjung: I can see that... but what about 'sudo -s' is bad?
[04:10] <|trey|> sudo -s YOUR password...
[04:10] <mpjung> ah.
[04:10] <|trey|> not one line though...
[04:10] <|trey|> sudo -s
[04:10] <mpjung> yay
[04:10] <|trey|> YOUR password
[04:11] <|trey|> like that  :)
[04:11] <mpjung> okie... I thought it would ask for the root password ^_^
[04:12] <mpjung> ok... now downloading the nvidia stuff in the hope that it'll get rid of those nasty 60hz
[04:13] <justBE_dot_com> hello :)
[04:15] <mpjung> how can I change the keyboard layout
[04:15] <justBE_dot_com> does anyone know, why ubuntu doesn't detect any of my 2 cd-drives and therefore fails to install? :\ already tried disabling one of the both... no success...
[04:15] <mpjung> I'm used to DVORAK and would like to set it as the whole system
[04:15] <seb128> mpjung: computer menu -> desktop -> keyboard
[04:16] <jblack> pjusbe_dot_com: Wild guess here, but did you forget to set the master/slave jumper? 
[04:16] <mpjung> seb128, that doesn't affect the consoles.
[04:16] <jblack> If the bios can't find the drive, then ...
[04:16] <justBE_dot_com> jblack.. nah.. works perfectly under windows, fedora, etc
[04:16] <justBE_dot_com> the drive works.. just ubuntu doesn't detect them
[04:16] <seb128> mpjung: dpkg-reconfigure console-data
[04:17] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: that, for me, would be the definition for "not working"...
[04:17] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: you know the module needed?
[04:17] <justBE_dot_com> no, not really :\ they are both ide cd-rws, attached to the primary ide port
[04:17] <justBE_dot_com> on a intel 875 board...
[04:18] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: weird... should be ide-cd  :/
[04:18] <justBE_dot_com> strange thing is... with debian sarge it works fine...
[04:19] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: file a bug noting that perhaps...
[04:19] <justBE_dot_com> i'll give it another try.. just to make sure... is there anything I should load/check before loading ide-cd by hand?
[04:19] <|trey|> modprobe ide-cd just to make sure
[04:19] <justBE_dot_com> okidoki.. will try
[04:19] <justBE_dot_com> thanks for now :)
[04:20] <|trey|> justBE_dot_com: if you note it works with sarge, at least the devs have something to work with... just would need to look at recent changes then  :)
[04:20] <mpjung> seb128, okie. so its the same as in debian... =)
[04:20] <seb128> yes
[04:20] <seb128> the distro is debian based
[04:21] <justBE_dot_com> yep... will put it in the bug description in case it really doesn't work...
[04:21] <mpjung> seb128, I know, but I thought those things were made somewhat more userfriendly... dont worry right now I quite like it to have a up to date desktop... gnome 2.8 rocks. ?=
[04:22] <seb128> mpjung: users don't use the consoel
[04:22] <seb128> console even
[04:22] <mpjung> Im not a pure user... I mainly use the system for developing :)
[04:22] <mpjung> but well... I just *like* the extra suggar of a decent desktop.
[04:23] <seb128> mpjung: I mean such options are not the priority area to get "user friendly" tools
[04:23] <mpjung> Hmm... damn ubuntu is lacking the -plain- dvorak layout... only the localized layouts are available.
[04:23] <mpjung> seb128, true.
[04:25] <mpjung> hmm... where can I get the dvorak keyboard layout from?
[04:25] <[Bas] > really cool, doom3 installed and runs seamless on ubuntu here. need a new videocard though ;)
[04:34] <looksaus> what's the easiest way to burn an audio cd in ubuntu?
[04:34] <looksaus> (I have a number of 44.1 KHz stereo .wav files ready
[04:34] <looksaus> )
[04:36] <mpjung> ok... lets hope it works... brb (hopefully)
[04:37] <ranman> looksaus: install k3b
[04:38] <looksaus> ranman, and a Gnome solution?
[04:39] <mpjung> hmm... now with the right layout, the correct x server... just great. :)
[04:39] <ranman> You might try xcdroast...
[04:39] <ranman> But it looks like from the website that k3b is the endorsed, even  though it is a kde app...
[04:40] <looksaus> ranman, synaptic doesn't seem to find it...
[04:40] <looksaus> ah, have to enable universe...
[04:41] <SuperLag> any Courier gurus in the house? :(
[04:41] <ranman> hold on, I am looking..
[04:42] <ranman> I just switched from deb unstable... not sure of total packages yet..
[04:42] <opi^work> SuperLag: use Posftfix/Exim & teapop ;)
[04:42] <SuperLag> what is teapop?
[04:42] <SuperLag> I've got the Postfix part working.  I can send fine.
[04:42] <opi^work> POP3 server
[04:42] <ranman> looksaus: eroaster..
[04:42] <SuperLag> I think it's procmail courier where I'm getting hung up
[04:42] <opi^work> SuperLag: you need both SMTP and POP/IMAP server ;)
[04:43] <SuperLag> right
[04:43] <SuperLag> I want IMAP
[04:43] <opi^work> d'oh
[04:43] <opi^work> so I can't help you :(
[04:43] <ranman> gcombust...
[04:44] <deFrysk> eroaster
[04:44] <ranman> SuperLag, there are many really nice tutorials for Postfix and Courier.. Look google, and add both words..
[04:45] <ranman> SuperLag: What are you having trouble with in Courior? I use courier, and do not remember having to do too much..
[04:45] <SuperLag> ranman: yeah, I've been using them.  So what happens when you do, and it STILL doesn't work? :)
[04:45] <SuperLag> ranman: I'm not receiving any mail.
[04:45] <SuperLag> I can send just fine.
[04:46] <ranman> That is Postfix problem...
[04:46] <ranman> Are you checking out the mail log?
[04:46] <looksaus> ranman, thx
[04:46] <SuperLag> Oct  5 09:45:51 localhost master[23467] : fatal: master_spawn: exec /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: No such file or directory
[04:47] <SuperLag> Oct  5 09:46:25 localhost master[23482] : fatal: master_spawn: exec /usr/lib/postfix/pickup: No such file or directory
[04:47] <SuperLag> that's in mail.err
[04:47] <ranman> You set up the maildirs correctly? with Postfix setup for that?
[04:47] <SuperLag> I believe so, yes.
[04:47] <ranman> LookSaus: no prob..
[04:47] <SuperLag> maildirmake
[04:47] <looksaus> gone, thx everyone
[04:48] <ranman> check the permissions.. If you ran the command as root, your user process does not have permission to write..
[04:49] <ranman> tail -F your /var/log/messages and send yourself mail from Yahoo, or MSN... That is what those accounts are good for, to debug mailserver setup..
[04:50] <ranman> check the mydomain, and relay settings for Postfix, those are a pain if you do not set correctly..
[04:53] <pdamoc> hello
[04:53] <pdamoc> is there an assimilation strategy of ubuntu?
[04:53] <ranman> resistence is futile...
[04:54] <pdamoc> ok ok... but the strategy? roadmap ... stuff like that
[04:55] <ranman> Do not know the roadmap, check the wiki.. This is mainly users ...
[04:55] <pdamoc> many install stuff and become users BUT with propper strategy users can be turned into developers
[04:55] <ranman> Developers poke their heads in once in awhile..
[04:55] <pdamoc> wiki is almost empty
[04:56] <ranman> Yeah, give them time.. They are still new.. 
[04:56] <pdamoc> :D
[04:56] <pdamoc> new? I thought the next version will be 4.1
[04:56] <pdamoc> :)
[04:57] <Kamion> 4.10 is a representation of the date
[04:57] <Kamion> short for 2004.10
[04:57] <ranman> Are you looking to  become a developer?
[04:57] <pdamoc> oops
[04:57] <Kamion> but without the "Windows 2004" factor
[04:57] <pdamoc> well... I'm not even an user :)
[04:57] <pdamoc> but... maybe
[04:57] <ranman> Are you at least a debian user?
[04:58] <pdamoc> winXP
[04:58] <pdamoc> :)
[04:58] <pdamoc> forced by Adobe Corp. (Photoshop)
[04:58] <suzan_> i've got a little question: i have win xp on my machine and now i want to install ubuntu besides it
[04:58] <ranman> hmmm, one of the walking dead... No wonder you were speaking of assimulation... haha
[04:58] <suzan_> this is possible, isn't it?
[04:58] <pdamoc> :)
[04:58] <ranman> suzan_: do you have any extra partitions open?
[04:59] <suzan_> in the moment my disk is one partition
[04:59] <suzan_> does ubuntu the partitioning with the installation?
[05:00] <pdamoc> I think Ubuntu could use an assimilation strategy :) something like "Chose your destiny!"
[05:00] <ranman> ok, then pull out that illegal copy of partition image (does anyone buy this?), sqeeze it down, and then run the install cd and turn the rest into ubuntu..
[05:00] <ranman> make sure that you defrag first...
[05:00] <ranman> that is sqeeze windows down..
[05:01] <ranman> not too much, it likes to complain about low disk space..
[05:01] <suzan_> oh, i need to do the partitioning by myself?
[05:01] <ranman> It is safer that way...
[05:02] <ranman> make sure that you defrag.. <---- on windows cannot say this enough..
[05:02] <suzan_> hm... the computer ist brandnew
[05:02] <ranman> ic...
[05:03] <ranman> Does it come with the Windows install CDs?
[05:03] <suzan_> it's installed on the computer but i have the cd's, too
[05:04] <Kamion> suzan_: Ubuntu doesn't yet have an NTFS resize tool in the installer, so you'll indeed probably want to use Partition Magic or similar.
[05:04] <Kamion> (we'll have something along those lines in the next release, since a hacky implementation got added to Debian's installer recently)
[05:04] <suzan_> ok, i see. so i take my copy.. ehm... my partitin magic
[05:04] <edd> knoppix will do the trick, too, it has qtparted...
[05:04] <ranman> NTFS write ability is still unstable with linux.. I would not trust the tools to do that yet...
[05:05] <ranman> edd: be very careful with the NTFS partitions.. You can lose data.. Since it is windows it might not be a bad thing...
[05:06] <pdamoc> loosing data is always a bad thing
[05:06] <ranman> see that is how long ago I used windows.. I forgot the name of the software...
[05:06] <ranman> hah
[05:07] <pdamoc> suzan_: do you have important documents on your computer or just Windows?
[05:07] <ranman> Partition Magic will resize the partition quite nicely and "safely"....
[05:07] <ranman> oh yeah... Do not forget to defrag..
[05:07] <ranman> Did I mention that before?
[05:07] <RuffianSoldier> yes
[05:13] <TdC_VgA> i installed a module using module-assistant auto-install module
[05:13] <RuffianSoldier> We scary-izzle, we scizarizzle
[05:14] <TdC_VgA> how would i go about removing that module?
[05:15] <ranman> use synaptic, or aptitude... or dpkg -r packagename...
[05:15] <ranman> tdc^
[05:16] <TdC_VgA> k
[05:16] <TdC_VgA> that'll remove the module that was compiled too?
[05:16] <Capri> hi, can anyone use VMWare with Ubuntu host?
[05:16] <ranman> Yes, module-assistant made a deb package and asked you if you want to install it..
[05:16] <TdC-SVideo> yup
[05:17] <TdC_VgA> excellent
[05:17] <TdC-SVideo> what?
[05:17] <Capri> I always get a /usr/local/lib/vmware/bin/vmware: relocation error: /usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf/loaders/libpixbufloader-xpm.so: undefined symbol: g_try_malloc
[05:17] <ranman> just type module-assistant -> view list -> view installed binaries to see what the package name was..
[05:18] <TdC_VgA> found it in synaptics =)
[05:19] <ranman> cool..
[05:20] <TdC_VgA> now to reinstall it with the newest drivers..
[05:20] <TdC_VgA> and MAYBE then my evil WiFi card (read Broadcom will work)
[05:20] <TdC_VgA> once that's working my laptop will be totally happy... except for the overly sensitive mouse, but eh I can live with that for now
[05:21] <ranman> broadcom? I have to use ndiswrapper for mine..
[05:21] <petemc> i dont think theres any other way
[05:21] <TdC_VgA> ranman: same i installed the module, but it didnt seem to be happy heh
[05:21] <TdC_VgA> signal is listed as 100/100 with the radio off... and all in all it doesnt do anything i get the wlan0 adapter to show up, but i cant get a DHCP from my router
[05:22] <ranman> You might be able to fix the mouse with desktop mouse settings...
[05:22] <TdC_VgA> tried them, no such luck unfortunatly =(
[05:22] <ranman> The kernel does not like the license of the ndiswrapper...
[05:22] <TdC_VgA> just jumpy 
[05:22] <ranman> hmmm
[05:22] <ranman> ball mouse?
[05:22] <TdC_VgA> touchpad
[05:23] <ranman> ic.. I hate my touchpad.. Are you using the xfree touchpad driver?
[05:24] <TdC_VgA> whatever came with ubuntu.. i thought it was using synaptics (i know it's installed), but it may not be using it
[05:24] <TdC_VgA> heard synaptics can fix the jumpyness.. so maybe thats the problem.. wonder how i enable that heh
[05:24] <ranman> well the synaptic driver for xfree..
[05:24] <pII-350> can somebody help me with ubuntu.. I have a problem after the first reboot :o(
[05:25] <jblack> pII: I can try. What's up? 
[05:26] <ranman>  Driver        "synaptics"
[05:26] <opi> re
[05:28] <pII-350> after I installed it there was gdm then i logged in.. gnome was up but my mouse didnt work (old serial 3-button) ok.. not so bad but not so good as with my kanotix or knoppix :o) then I reboot my system the first time and it hang up with two module somethings *sigh*
[05:29] <opi> pII-350: change your /etc/X11/XFree86-4
[05:29] <opi> replace mouse device from /dev/input/* or /dev/psaux to /dev/ttySx where x is your serial 
[05:29] <pII-350> yes.. i think my x config wil work after some tests..
[05:30] <opi> I hope they compiled kernel with serial mouse support :P
[05:30] <pII-350> but my second problem has nothing to do with that.. I think perhaps it could be some redunant drivers belonging to installation?
[05:30] <opi> can't tell
[05:31] <opi> see what's in modules
[05:31] <opi> maybe disable some unused stuff/services
[05:31] <pII-350> But I am a newbie.. where can I look if something in the boot sequence doesnt work?
[05:32] <opi> first run sudo modconf from shell
[05:32] <ranman> Check /var/log/messages 
[05:32] <opi> and do what ranman says :)
[05:33] <pII-350> okay.. but how can i get to the shell if it doesent boot up? ;o)
[05:33] <jblack> Does rescue mode work for you? 
[05:33] <jblack> there should be a grub option for "rescue"
[05:33] <opi> dose Ubuntu support init selection at boot?
[05:33] <opi> he could boot at init 1/2
[05:34] <opi> without networking and stuff
[05:34] <jblack> which is the equivilant of "linux single" 
[05:34] <opi> yes, that what I was asking for, jblack ;)
[05:34] <ranman> pII: what is your bootloader?
[05:35] <Kamion> opi: runlevel 2 is the default
[05:35] <ranman> opi: all bootloaders let you override the boot options..
[05:35] <pII-350> hmm.. grub I think.. the standard when I install Ubuntu! I didnt use expert mode, only changes I did were partitioning
[05:37] <pII-350> or should I wait until the release?!
[05:37] <pII-350> are there too many bugs in the install perhaps?
[05:37] <ranman> in grub push e on one of the boot options, and this will edit the selection, put a 1 after it, and then after editing just push b, and this will put you into rescue mode..
[05:38] <pII-350> and then look for modconf and into /var/log/messages?
[05:39] <ranman> modconf will help you choose what modules to load at startup, it will not tell you what happened.. /var/log/messages will tell you what happened..
[05:39] <TdC_VgA> errrrrrrrrr
[05:40] <TdC_VgA> i can see the networks listed.. so the driver must be working..
[05:40] <TdC_VgA> i've configured my card.. so it looks right under iwconfig.
[05:40] <q2> hi
[05:40] <q2> I am RuffianSoldier
[05:40] <ranman> I hate to tell you "the words", but if you are using a serial mouse, then maybe it is time to pull out the credit card..
[05:40] <TdC_VgA> but... when i do a dhclient wlan0, it just tries and tries and nothing happens...
[05:41] <q2> serial mouse............ HAHAHHHAHAHAHAHA!
[05:41] <ranman> tdc: iwconfig wlan0 ------> Is the essid set? -------> is the wep key set if neccessary?
[05:42] <TdC_VgA> ranman: yes and yes.. and both should be correct
[05:42] <TdC_VgA> iwconfig key restricted xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx i think
[05:42] <TdC_VgA> you dont need to put the key in like this do you? XX:XX:XX:XX:XX?
[05:44] <ranman> tdc: iwconfig eth0 ap 00:60:1D:01:23:45
[05:44] <ranman> That is from the example..
[05:45] <ranman> The place where I use my card does not use wep...
[05:45] <arle> Hi, there
[05:45] <TdC_VgA> lemme turn off wep and see if it'll work
[05:46] <TdC_VgA> gotta drop off.. back in a few
[05:46] <ranman> what does iwlist wlan0 scanning tell you?
[05:46] <arle> My Ubuntu haven't recognized my sound card... :-/
[05:46] <ranman> That will tell you if wep is needed..
[05:46] <TdC_VgA> iwlist wlan0 scan shows my access point
[05:46] <ranman> arle, what is your soundcard?
[05:46] <TdC_VgA> it is.. i know its turned on on my router
[05:47] <arle> I've searched the users mailing list archive: no luck
[05:47] <arle> ranman: give me a sec, I'll check it out
[05:47] <ranman> ubuntu mailing list archive is like nothing...
[05:47] <ranman> Maybe you should check the Debian Archive..
[05:48] <arle> ranman:thanks, you're right
[05:48] <arle> I am subscribed to debian-spanish-mail list
[05:48] <arle> but I prefer to ask here, 1st
[05:49] <arle> Look, I'm ashamed but my WindowsXP can't tell me what kinda card do I have
[05:49] <arle> I think it's an Intel
[05:49] <arle> Knoppix had recognized it once
[05:49] <ranman> hmmm...
[05:50] <arle> Perhaps I am missing a module
[05:50] <ranman> maybe you need to boot that knoppix cd and find out..
[05:50] <arle> But I can't find the great Debian tool modconf
[05:50] <arle> Yeah, I guess, so :-)
[05:50] <ranman> apt-get install modconf
[05:51] <arle> no way.... 
[05:51] <ranman> You are not in linux now?
[05:51] <arle> I have enabled the universe repository
[05:51] <arle> nope
[05:51] <arle> well, I'm in linux
[05:51] <ranman> lspci
[05:51] <arle> but it's not the Ubuntu box :
[05:52] <ranman> That will tell you what your card is..
[05:52] <ranman> ic..
[05:52] <q2> Hello MacPlusG3, i have a G3, its a white one though, its still coool
[05:52] <q2> aah, heleft
[05:52] <ranman> until you know what your card is, you can just try each, one at a time until success..
[05:52] <q2> i thought it sayed, joined
[05:52] <arle> Well... I can try booting into my Ubuntu installation and then, re-login into this channel
[05:53] <arle> I'll be right back
[05:53] <q2> yes
[05:53] <ranman> ruffian, are you here to heckle and be a pain in the ***?
[05:53] <q2> ranman, im always here
[05:53] <q2> Becuase i have Ubuntu
[05:54] <q2> :-)
[05:54] <ranman> You make it sound like a disease..
[05:54] <q2> AHAHHAAH! OH NO! I COUGHT A CASE OF Ubuntu!
[05:54] <ranman> hahaa
[05:55] <esco> im having some issues installing the nvidia drivers on my amd64
[05:55] <q2> that is wierd, usually its ATI problems
[05:55] <ranman> amd and nvidia are not friends..
[05:55] <q2> ill keep taht in mind
[05:55] <ranman> The driver is built for intel..
[05:55] <q2> but ATI has Linux problems
[05:56] <ranman> If you read the nvidia site, they tell you about all the cool intel feature that they have put into their driver...
[05:56] <q2> Intel is lame
[05:56] <esco> is there any way to use apt-get to get the nvidia drives setup, or should i just build a new kernel from scratch w/o rivafb so i can use the amd64 drives right from their site
[05:57] <q2> esco, is that possible?
[05:57] <esco> is what possible?
[05:57] <q2> nvm
[05:58] <ranman> I was not aware that they had amd driver... nvidia is available through apt...
[05:58] <esco> but it doesnt work through apt right now for amd64
[05:58] <esco> wiki says so and i cant get it to work
[05:58] <ranman> nvidia-kernel-source
[05:58] <ranman> nvidia-settings
[05:59] <ranman> nvidia-kernel-common
[05:59] <ranman> do an "apt-cache search nvidia"
[06:00] <esco> nvidia-kernel-source doesnt come up when i apt-cache search
[06:00] <esco> and ive already done an apt-get update
[06:00] <bob2> esco: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BinaryDriverHowto
[06:01] <esco> bob2, you obviously didnt read anything
[06:01] <ranman> hmmm, maybe I still have residule debian unstable packages listed.. I commented them out...
[06:01] <esco> i have amd64
[06:01] <esco> that page, at the bottom, says "Note for AMD64-bit users: sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx will NOT work. You will recieve an error that it has become outdated or moved."
[06:01] <dieman> yay, the ubuntu lists are on gmane
[06:01] <esco> thats why im here
[06:01] <bob2> esco: thank you for politeness, kthx
[06:02] <bob2> esco: install them from source then,. which doesn't ever require recompiling the kernel
[06:02] <esco> except it does
[06:02] <bob2> when?
[06:02] <esco> because the default ubuntu kernel has rivafb compiled in
[06:02] <esco> and that conflicts with the nvidia drivers
[06:02] <esco> and the installer wont run
[06:02] <bob2> not as a module?
[06:02] <goatboy> the rivafb warning can usually be ignored.
[06:03] <esco> ill try it again
[06:03] <esco> i went though all that last week
[06:03] <ranman> maybe you should just get your sources from nvidia straight and try that way..
[06:03] <crimsun> um
[06:03] <crimsun> it's not compiled in
[06:03] <ranman> Then you will not have the package dependency..
[06:03] <crimsun> /lib/modules/2.6.8.1-3-686-smp/kernel/drivers/video/riva/rivafb.ko
[06:03] <bob2> crimsun: that's what I thought
[06:03] <crimsun> all you have to do is blacklist it
[06:04] <esco> k, ill try it
[06:04] <tortoise__> silly question but how do you edit the menues in gnome??
[06:05] <bob2> tortoise__: go to applications:/// in nautilus
[06:05] <ranman> manually type in the location.. "start-here:" there you will find applications, and anything you change there will reflect in your menu..
[06:05] <ranman> also what bob2 says.. his is faster...
[06:05] <ranman> haha
[06:07] <q2> hello ploum
[06:07] <ploum> hello
[06:08] <tortoise__> bob2,raman:what about the computer menu?
[06:08] <ploum> Don't say hello every time I connect, my connection is very buggy so it disconnect/reconnect all the time ;-)
[06:08] <bob2> tortoise__: you can't edit it at the moment.
[06:09] <ploum> I've a critical comment
[06:09] <ploum> The website must really be improved : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/
[06:09] <ploum> It doesn't feel "pro" at all IMHO
[06:11] <bob2> ploum: if you have constructive suggestions, I'm sure they'd be appreciaqted on the ubuntu-users list
[06:11] <ranman> ploum, they are always looking for users to help out.. Thanks for voluteering..
[06:13] <ranman> tortoise: computer menu?
[06:13] <ranman> sorry for the late reply tortoise.. smoking...
[06:13] <ranman> on the menubar?
[06:13] <ranman> I do not think that can be edited..
[06:14] <ranman> Gnome menus and editing has always been a pain for me...
[06:19] <Sirius_Black> i think i have asked this before but can anyone confirm that to do basic ububtu install i must chose 'custom'
[06:19] <spiv> Sirius_Black: Sounds right.
[06:20] <Sirius_Black> tnx cheers :-)
[06:20] <LinuxJones> hi guys
[06:23] <will> hi anyone know what the yenta socket is?
[06:23] <fsc> will: pcmcia stuff i believe
[06:23] <bob2> it is indeed.
[06:24] <LinuxJones> will, >> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/archive/25/2003/11/2/113749
[06:24] <fsc> love that site
[06:25] <LinuxJones> fsc, ya there are alot of nice people on LQ.org
[06:25] <fsc> my realtek 8180 chipset wireless thread is like 90 pages long now
[06:26] <fsc> probably longer actually..haven't checked it in a while
[06:26] <LinuxJones> fsc, wow
[06:26] <LinuxJones> fsc, that must have been some question :)
[06:26] <esco> ok, module is installed thankfully, but now i have another problem
[06:27] <esco> im having issues w/ libGL.so.1
[06:27] <fsc> the 8180 chipset is a common chipset for wireless cards...and there's been problems...they actually released binary (private part) drivers for 2.4.x, but never got around to 2.6.x  that I know of...I've been in XP for months now though
[06:27] <esco> glxinfo/glxgears cant find the library
[06:27] <ranman> what is the problem with that? I hope that it has nothing to do with your wireless..
[06:27] <esco> ive checked the symbolic links and ran ldconfig, any thoughts
[06:27] <ranman> hmm, ic..
[06:28] <ranman> do you actually see a libGL.so.1?
[06:28] <fsc> ranman: the problem was that the drivers that realtek released would only work on kernels under 2.4.22 and they didn't work on some distros and such, but I ended up using ndsiwrapper eventually
[06:28] <esco> yes i do
[06:29] <esco> there was 2 actualy, one in /lib64 and one in /lib32
[06:29] <ranman> ic..
[06:29] <esco> so i moved the ones from /lib32 out and reran ldconfig and nothing changed
[06:29] <esco> the ones in /usr/lib64 ( sorry ) are the ones from nvidia
[06:30] <ranman> run ldd on your glxgears, and see where that points the libGL.so.1...
[06:30] <esco> says not found
[06:30] <will> how can you remove pcmcia functionality from ubuntu?
[06:31] <daniels> apt-get remove pcmcia-cs
[06:31] <will> does that remove support/loading from the kernel too?
[06:31] <ranman> libGL.so.1 should be in /usr/X11R6/lib/
[06:33] <esco> k , i put a link in there and ran ldconfig and it still cant find it
[06:33] <ranman> hmmm, You are running 64 bit?
[06:33] <esco> yes
[06:35] <will> daniels: will that remove kernel loading of PCMCIA?
[06:35] <ranman> hmmm, my plain old 32 bit gl libs are all in /usr/X11R6/lib -->  /usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.so.1 -> libGL.so.1.2
[06:36] <ranman> did you run the full path to the lib64 folder into ldconfig?
[06:37] <esco> no
[06:37] <ranman> send the full path to the folder into your setting file and run ldconfig again..
[06:37] <ranman> ld.so.conf
[06:39] <esco> k, my ld.so.conf had directories for all the 32 bit lib dirs, should i add the 64 ones, or just replace the 32 ones
[06:40] <ranman> place the 64 bit folders before the 32 bit folders, or replace.. 64 bit is better for graphics...
[06:41] <esco> brb, im gonna run the nvidia-installer again.. maybe after fixing the ld.so.conf file it will work better
[06:41] <ranman> k...
[06:43] <imka> in the faq, they write that upgrades to higher versins will be fully supported. does that mean that i'll be able to upgrade with "apt-get dist-upgrade" and have the the latest gnome for example? or will there be an upgrade option in the installer. either way, i'll be able to keep my /home, right?
[06:43] <LinuxJones> imka, yes it will just upgrade the your installed applications.
[06:44] <ranman> dist-upgrade is for upgrading to a higher distribution... upgrade will upgrade your applications..
[06:44] <Kamion> imka: there's unlikely to be an upgrade option in the installer
[06:44] <Kamion> as everyone else said, you just upgrade in-place
[06:44] <ranman> apt-get upgrade
[06:44] <imka> like i'd do with debian
[06:44] <imka> ?
[06:44] <imka> that's cool
[06:44] <ranman> ubuntu is debian...
[06:44] <will> does anyone here have the delay immediately after 'Starting Ubuntu' Message just after the kernel uncompresses?
[06:45] <ranman> not me..
[06:45] <Kamion> will: it's doing stuff in that delay; the messages are just suppressed ...
[06:46] <will> the hard disk light is fixed on though, its like some autodetect
[06:46] <imka> true. it's a desktop debian. i've tried debian couple of times but i could never use it for more than a week
[06:46] <ranman> hmmm, I have had debian on my laptop for the past year..
[06:47] <jaboo> i've got a question about minor updates to packages in ubuntu
[06:47] <tortoise__> how can i change my default shell?
[06:47] <ranman> Why were you not able to use it for more than a week? Married, and your wife yelled about you always on the computer?
[06:47] <jaboo> currently it ships with gnome 2.8.0.
[06:47] <jaboo> will gnome 2.8.1 be available in synaptic when it gets released in about 8 days.
[06:47] <Kamion> tortoise__: chsh
[06:47] <ranman> tortiose: change it with usermod...
[06:48] <ranman> or chsh...
[06:48] <tortoise__> kamion,ranman:thanks
[06:48] <ranman> no prob..
[06:48] <Kamion> jaboo: GNOME 2.8.1 is a feature goal; we've been updating it since 2.8.0 as new upstream tarballs are released
[06:49] <jaboo> ok. so warty hopes to ship with 2.8.1 then?
[06:49] <Kamion> sorry, I should say "GNOME is a feature goal", I don't know if we'll be *exactly* in sync with 2.8.1
[06:49] <imka> ranman lol sort of. my girlfriend. the thing is, that i use a lot of multimedia apps. and that's not debian's strength. for example, i could never use the marillat multimeadia apt sources properly. with ubuntu, i had my system set-up in 30 minutes after the install... and i just LOVE it
[06:49] <Kamion> Eight days from now is getting very tight, but I think that's the goal
[06:50] <ranman> imka: kaffeine for the kde desktop has always met my multimedia needs.. it is awesome...
[06:50] <jaboo> would updates like gnome 2.8.1 be in "universe" if they do not ship with warty?
[06:51] <ranman> But, shhhhh, do not say the K word too much in this channel..
[06:51] <imka> i always use mplayer. it's hungarian like i am :)
[06:52] <ranman> mplayer is great, too bad it is a dead project...
[06:52] <imka> i've never really liked k
[06:52] <imka> d
[06:52] <imka> e
[06:52] <ranman> haha
[06:52] <imka> a dead project? didn't know that
[06:52] <jaboo> thanks for the insight, kamion.
[06:53] <ranman> oops, mispoke.. I thought it died...
[06:53] <Nonphasis> sometimes firefox is so annoying...
[06:54] <Nonphasis> mplayer dead? i don't believe it...
[06:54] <ranman> I could have sworn that the main developer was fed up with something and decided to drop the project...
[06:54] <jaboo> mplayer's not dead; just hard to build from sources.
[06:54] <ranman> ok... Don't make a fuss here.. I was wrong...
[06:54] <jaboo> maybe he got fed up recently then.
[06:54] <imka> (windows) M(edia)PLAYER is dead :)
[06:54] <Nonphasis> 2004.09.02, Thursday :: MPlayer at SUCON '04
[06:55] <ranman> haha
[06:55] <jaboo> haha
[06:55] <Nonphasis> doesn't look too dead to me
[06:55] <Se7h> erm...does anyone have celestia?
[06:55] <fsc> does the kernel that the live CDs are on provide NTFS support?
[06:55] <imka> i think this channel just hit mplayerhq.hu :)
[06:55] <ranman> haha..
[06:55] <ranman> ok, long live mplayer... 
[06:56] <LinuxJones> fsc, ther are no live cd's as of yet
[06:56] <Nonphasis> mplayer will live on, until someone decides to sue them...
[06:56] <theantix> what does mplayer do that totem doesn't?
[06:56] <Nonphasis> theantix, err... show videos?
[06:56] <imka> theantix do you mean the default ubuntu totem?
[06:57] <Nonphasis> totem only shows black screen for me
[06:57] <theantix> imka, well yeah wtih the proprietary plugins I can play any format I've tried
[06:57] <imka> mplayer plays pretty much all types of video formats, plus encrypted dvd's
[06:57] <Nonphasis> hom do you get the proprietary plugins?
[06:58] <jblack> Is there a way to dump a list of all installed packages, such that somebody else can apt-get them ? 
[06:58] <ranman> hah, found the source of my mistake... 2004.03.26, Friday :: Leaving MPlayer
[06:58] <jh|work> totem uses xine...which is definitly inferior to mplayer..
[06:58] <theantix> Nonphasis, if you get "totem-xine" from universe and grab w32codecs from debian-marillat that works fine
[06:58] <Nonphasis> theantix, thx, i'll try
[06:59] <theantix> I watch DVDs and DIVXs on my ubuntu system frequently, fwiw
[06:59] <imka> xine doesn't support external subtitle files (sub, srt,...)
[06:59] <fsc> anybody know if ndiswrapper is on the livecd from say a few days ago...i'm gonna have to install wireless
[06:59] <ranman> debian, does not have ndiswrapper...
[06:59] <fsc> ...or rather install without access to my ethernet
[06:59] <ranman> holdon I will give you the address...
[07:00] <fsc> uhhmm...but ubuntu has ndiswrapper in its repo
[07:00] <theantix> imka: ah, I guess I've never tried that
[07:00] <fsc> and why wouldn't debian have ndiswrapper
[07:00] <will> i like VLC personally with its own codecs
[07:00] <Nonphasis> BTW, one datapoint: doom3 works fine on ubuntu
[07:00] <will> www.videolan.org
[07:01] <ranman> deb http://rigtorp.se/debian/ unstable/ <----- ndiswrapper...
[07:01] <Nonphasis> for those of you who didn't try it
[07:01] <LinuxJones> Nonphasis, what system specs to you have and hwo does it run ?
[07:01] <fsc> ranman:  ok, might as well download that and put it on my fat32 partition before I start install
[07:01] <LinuxJones> err how
[07:01] <fsc> ranman: thanks
[07:01] <ranman> ubuntu has ndiswrapper? That is definately a step up from debian..
[07:01] <Nonphasis> LinuxJones, gf4 ti4200, xp2400+
[07:01] <fsc> ranman: according to a mailinglist post
[07:01] <ranman> That is the deb packages..
[07:02] <LinuxJones> Nonphasis, is it running smooth ?
[07:02] <Nonphasis> LinuxJones, it ran a bit slowar than on dos, but my system was heavily loaded
[07:02] <fsc> ranman: why wouldn't deb have ndiswrapper in it's repo?
[07:02] <LinuxJones> Nonphasis, ahh
[07:02] <Nonphasis> LinuxJones, i'll try again when the load is down
[07:02] <Nonphasis> LinuxJones, but, there is a demo for linux as well, so you can look before you leap
[07:03] <ranman> I do not know why they did not have it... It was always a pain in my butt...
[07:03] <fsc> ranman: i just installed from source anyway on my old deb system, but ndiswrapper should be a definite for inclusion into dbian
[07:03] <Nonphasis> ID software rocks
[07:03] <LinuxJones> Nonphasis, I only have a GF2MX with 32 megs of ram and I don't thing that is enough
[07:03] <ranman> I agree...
[07:03] <fsc> too bad farcry doesn't have a linux port
[07:03] <ranman> what is farcry?
[07:03] <Nonphasis> LinuxJones, yes, that isn't enough ;-)
[07:03] <fsc> doom3 has nothing on farcry
[07:04] <fsc> ranman: a game that absolutely spanks doom3
[07:04] <Nonphasis> fsc, except linux port :)
[07:04] <ranman> ic...
[07:04] <LinuxJones> I have the worst keyboarding skills in all of computing history :(
[07:05] <imka> the marillat server must be overloaded since ubuntu came out
[07:05] <Nonphasis> ih software (mostly thanks to carmack) has a great "attitude"
[07:05] <fsc> Nonphasis: that's what windows partitions are for
[07:05] <imka> it's really slow
[07:06] <Nonphasis> fsc, rebooting is tedious
[07:06] <fsc> Nonphasis: yeah, but I love this game....vast, lush outdoor scenes...grass that waves in the wind...beaches and oceans that look photorealistic
[07:07] <fsc> doom3 is disappointing to say the least
[07:07] <Nonphasis> fsc, yes, far cry is great
[07:07] <fsc> at least allow us to use our freaking flashlight with our gun without using a hack
[07:07] <Nonphasis> well, there *is* the hack so the concern is monor
[07:08] <Nonphasis> minor
[07:08] <fsc> its indictive of not being well thought out...the whole game is indicative of Id living in the past
[07:08] <Nonphasis> I respectfully disagree... d3 has a great engine
[07:09] <fsc> the engine is great, i'm talking about the gameplay
[07:09] <Nonphasis> and ID software has always been more about the engine
[07:09] <Nonphasis> just sticking to the "living in the past" point
[07:09] <fsc> i'd like to see what the engine can do with outdoor scenes
[07:10] <fsc> did id release the sdk yet?
[07:10] <Nonphasis> yep, the lack of outdoors in the game rises some suspcions about the caps of the engine
[07:10] <fsc> I couldn't believe how rocking the crytek engine is...it blew my mind
[07:10] <nasdaq4088> i wonder how much it costs to develop a game like doom 3?
[07:10] <t35t0r> fsc, the only outdoor scene i've seen in the demo is when you go outside in the martian environment for a few seconds of the air supply you have ..w
[07:10] <PerfDave> The gameplay in Doom 3 was great. The flashlight / weapon swap added to the tension.
[07:10] <fsc> nasdaq4088: 10 million
[07:10] <nasdaq4088> phew
[07:10] <nasdaq4088> :)
[07:11] <fsc> nasdaq4088: or was it 20 million? one or the other
[07:11] <nasdaq4088> i wonder how much it costs to get a license to use the doom3 engine?
[07:11] <fsc> i think 10 million
[07:11] <fsc> i think quake3 went for half a mil
[07:11] <t35t0r> fsc: i think far cry is a much more gpu/cpu intensive game
[07:11] <fsc> the license cost
[07:11] <t35t0r> from what i've seen
[07:11] <nasdaq4088> there is one defunct gaming company that has a good gaming engine.
[07:11] <fsc> t35t0r: not me. i get better framerates on farcry than doom3
[07:11] <t35t0r> fsc: ahh really? in winxp right?
[07:12] <fsc> t35t0r: yes
[07:12] <nasdaq4088> i wish i had a few million, then i could offer ?someone? something for it
[07:12] <fsc> nasdaq4088: what engine is that?
[07:12] <Nonphasis> farcry was faster for me too
[07:12] <fsc> the crytek guys are top notch engine programmers
[07:12] <nasdaq4088> :)
[07:12] <lonewolff> hi, can anyone tell me why sound would have suddenly stopped working?
[07:13] <nasdaq4088> strategy game
[07:13] <t35t0r> fsc: well i've had no problems in d3 at medium graphics 1024x768 w/radeon 9600 ..only thing is i can't get out of the lower rooms when all hell breaks lose ...how do you get out of that room with the lower and raising bridge?
[07:13] <fsc> t35t0r: i've got the 9600 pro too
[07:13] <Nonphasis> lonewolff, checked the volume controls?
[07:13] <fsc> t35t0r: i tend to run at 800x600 with higher settings though
[07:13] <lonewolff> Nonphasis: yeah 
[07:13] <lonewolff> all at top volume
[07:13] <t35t0r> fsc: do you know which place i'm talking about in the demo
[07:13] <t35t0r> have you played it that far hehe
[07:14] <fsc> t35t0r: not sure if i've got there yet.  i just got past the tram stage
[07:14] <ranman> lonewolf: Checked the sound server?
[07:14] <fsc> t35t0r: i don't have the demo, i bought the game
[07:14] <t35t0r> fsc: ahh
[07:14] <lonewolff> ranman: nope, how would i do that
[07:14] <t35t0r> i had to get the demo ..it's just not as fun as d2
[07:14] <t35t0r> or d1 even
[07:15] <t35t0r> ut2k4 is more my game
[07:15] <nasdaq4088> ssi is basically defunct
[07:15] <t35t0r> d3 isn't as fun as q3 for me either
[07:15] <Nonphasis> hmm. totem-xine can't show anything either
[07:15] <fsc> i play farcry at 1024x768 with mostly high settings and some very high settings and rarely drop below 30 fps...but i have a medium setting profile for multiplayer, even though farcry multiplayer sucks because of the crappy netcode...oh well, single player rocks...so does them using Lua as the scripting engine
[07:15] <Nonphasis> plain xine shows it ok
[07:15] <nasdaq4088> i mean ssi released hundreds of games
[07:15] <fsc> my girlfriend is addicted to q3 lan play
[07:15] <ranman> go to the sound settings...  on the sound events tab, play one of the settings, ..
[07:15] <fsc> she's always bugging me
[07:16] <ranman> If that does not work, then try the command line play command..
[07:16] <t35t0r> fsc: let her try ut2k4 if hasn't already hahah
[07:16] <t35t0r> she will be even more addicted
[07:16] <fsc> i've got ut2k3...not ut2k4
[07:16] <t35t0r> its fun to squish people in the vehicles and hear them scream
[07:16] <t35t0r> hahaha
[07:17] <fsc> i just did that in farcry last night..after fumbling around with the machine gun
[07:17] <Nonphasis> can totem show subtitles?
[07:17] <lonewolff> ranman: that does not work
[07:17] <fsc> might as well run over the enemy
[07:17] <lonewolff> but i get the system bell thru my speakers which didnt happen before
[07:17] <ranman> hmmm.... dont know...
[07:18] <t35t0r> the hellbender is by far one of the best vehicles if used properly
[07:19] <lonewolff> im goign to reboot and see if that helps
[07:19] <lonewolff> clos
[07:19] <ranman> k...
[07:19] <esco> got it working!
[07:19] <fsc> ranman: that rigtorp.se debian unstable link appears to be broken
[07:20] <esco> what was happening was it would install the 64bit libs in lib64, and then installing the 32bit libs in lib which was symlinked to by lib64
[07:20] <t35t0r> "For a single title [6]  license, we charge a $250,000 guarantee against a 5% royalty of the wholesale [7]  price for the title. Not cheap, but it pays for itself with the marketing cach alone."
[07:20] <esco> so it was borking everything up
[07:20] <t35t0r> q3 engine
[07:20] <ranman> hmmm, that was the only place to get that particular deb package...
[07:20] <fsc> maybe i'll just build it from source
[07:20] <ranman> Do not use the deb from sourceforge... stupid dep problems...
[07:20] <Kamion> can we move gaming discussion elsewhere, please? this channel is already very busy. thanks.
[07:21] <ranman> I think that is better... That is what I used to do..
[07:21] <t35t0r> Kamion, you haven't seen busy until you stepped into #gentoo hehe
[07:21] <fsc> really
[07:22] <Kamion> t35t0r: when the developers don't have time to pay attention to this channel on a regular basis, that's bad for users.
[07:22] <fsc> every fanboy crying over how some USE flag borked their system
[07:22] <t35t0r> fsc: ya
[07:22] <ranman> fanboy?
[07:22] <ranman> I use Gentoo...
[07:22] <t35t0r> gentoo really isn't for noobs
[07:22] <fsc> I've used gentoo in the past
[07:22] <esco> gentoos not bad
[07:23] <t35t0r> ya i use it too
[07:23] <fsc> gentoo is easy if you just follow the detailed instructions and don't dick with your system at every possible second of the day to gain that extra .001 nanosecond for konq
[07:23] <t35t0r> hehe yea
[07:23] <ranman> haha, have not seen this much support for gentoo before...
[07:24] <ranman> Everybody I have heard whines about compiling all the time...
[07:24] <t35t0r> if you compile with -O3 you lose more time in compiling than gain in actual runtime efficiencies
[07:24] <t35t0r> -O2 is much faster and the speed difference during runtime isn't noticeable
[07:24] <Mithrandir> t35t0r: O3 is usually slower than O2.
[07:24] <fsc> because you increase the code size and get cache misses...I would presume
[07:24] <t35t0r> Mithrandir, ya that's what i said
[07:24] <t35t0r> its much slower during compile ..especially on a p4 3.2ghz
[07:25] <Kamion> t35t0r: no, Mithrandir's saying that it's usually slower at run-time too.
[07:25] <Mithrandir> t35t0r: it's slower runtime as well.
[07:25] <Mithrandir> t35t0r: since you lose cache efficiency.
[07:25] <Mithrandir> because the code size goes up.
[07:25] <t35t0r> Mithrandir, how is that possible ..i've seen some benchmarks and it's only slightly faster
[07:25] <will> Mithrandir: do you like LOTR?
[07:25] <t35t0r> either way its not worth it ..then what would be the point of -O3 anyways?
[07:26] <Kamion> -O3 turns on -finline-functions, which as Mithrandir says often trashes the I-cache.
[07:26] <Mithrandir> will: yeah, and the rest of Tolkien's works, like the Hobbit and Silmarillion
[07:27] <t35t0r> maybe i need to understand -finline-functions to understand what is the point of -O3 if it makes apps run slower?
[07:27] <Kamion> People should not use compiler options without reading the compiler's manual page. :-)
[07:27] <t35t0r> Kamion, easier said than done ..that's the problem with most users of gentoo myself included..
[07:28] <spiv> t35t0r: Like many "optimisations", -finline-functions isn't guaranteed to make the code faster, and can make it run slower.
[07:28] <Kamion> -O<bigger-number> doesn't necessarily mean faster; it means exactly "make the optimizer do more stuff".
[07:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: -O99 forever !!!111! :P
[07:29] <spiv> t35t0r: Whether it'll be faster or not depends very much on the code, on which particular patterns of execution will occur when you run it (which can be different to when some else runs it, if they use the program for something else), and you exact model of processor, how much cache it has, and so on...
[07:31] <Kamion> We force -O2 for most of Ubuntu's builds by default, although IIRC we do allow -O3.
[07:31] <Mithrandir> spiv: not to mention runtime conditions such as system load, amount of free ram, hard drive space, file system layout, the colour of the neighbour's cat and not to forget the phase of the moon. :)
[07:31] <will> Mithrandir: just finished reading silmarillion very good book, anyways this is not a tolkien room!
[07:32] <will> does anyone know a good CD burning program fro gnome, i dont like the built in one at all!
[07:33] <fsc> will: you'll probably have to do what everybody else does, and install that one KDE app...K3b(or whatever its called)
[07:33] <Mithrandir> somebody should rewrite k3b to be a gnome program. :)
[07:33] <fsc> i think someone is...IIRC from a gnome-desktop post
[07:33] <spiv> Mithrandir: Perhaps my "and so on" didn't quite convey the fullness of the problem clearly enough :)
[07:34] <Mithrandir> spiv :)
[07:34] <will> damn right! but will it be stable?
[07:35] <will> damn i have to download half of KDE for k3b!!!
[07:35] <jh|work> hehe
[07:35] <fsc> yep
[07:35] <tomeu> hi all
[07:36] <jh|work> sometimes i think alittle too much integration can be a bad thing
[07:36] <tomeu> i'm having trouble installing ubuntu in dual-boot configuration
[07:36] <fsc> and worse yet, probably load half of KDE into memory to use it
[07:36] <AndersAA> k3b (which is nice)/gnome-toaster (which is ugly)/nero in wine, which works surprisingly well
[07:36] <tomeu> is somebody willing to give me a hand?
[07:36] <fsc> tomeu: oh, oh...because i'll be dual-booting to. what's the problem?
[07:36] <ranman> clap clap clap..
[07:36] <jh|work> literally a hand?
[07:37] <tomeu> the first times i tried installing grub, it corrupted the partition table and had to reinstall windows
[07:37] <tomeu> didn't worked fixboot neither fixmbr
[07:37] <tomeu> now I'm trying to install ubuntu first without bootloader and try to install grub afterwards
[07:37] <ranman> corrupted the partition table?
[07:37] <imka> will try xcdroast
[07:38] <ranman> how?
[07:38] <fsc> tomeu: hmmm...not good. i can't afford to re-install windows again
[07:38] <tomeu> managed to install, but now i can't manage to boot into ubuntu linux, i have tried to boot from the cd with linux root=/dev/hda2
[07:38] <AndersAA> are you sure it corrupted the partiton table?...
[07:38] <tomeu> when i executed fixmbr it said so
[07:38] <imka> it's not as good looking as k3b but it has all the features except of on thy fly audio burning from mp3 ogg
[07:38] <ranman> haha, windows will always say that...
[07:38] <AndersAA> imka: I think it can do that...
[07:39] <tomeu> but it also refused to boot :-(
[07:39] <ranman> It will overwrite the master boot record.. That is the purpose..
[07:39] <AndersAA> what happened when you booted?
[07:39] <fsc> tomeu: isn't the ubuntu installer somewhat debian like....(the new debian installer)...it just asks you what partion for /,swap...if you want to set up grub to have another OS to boot and your done?
[07:39] <tomeu> it said that could not find any operating system
[07:39] <Mithrandir> fsc: we're using debian-installer in Ubuntu.
[07:40] <fsc> i've used the new debian installer and had 0 problems...it was a breeze
[07:40] <tomeu> yes, i have installed several times debian dual boot with lilo without problem
[07:40] <AndersAA> hmm, well, you could try installing it on active partition instead of mbr I suppose, worked great on the boxes I got it running on though
[07:40] <tomeu> yes, this is the path i'm following now
[07:41] <tomeu> but now i want to install grub on hda2 (win is on hda1), and use the windows bootloader to load grub
[07:41] <fsc> so ISOs are built everyday?  is there any reason i should download a new daily and use it instead of using the daily i downloaded the other day?
[07:41] <tomeu> but the problem now is that i can't load into my recently installed ubuntu
[07:41] <tomeu> i don't know which is the booting command
[07:41] <LinuxJones> Mithrandir, are you guys going to use Progeny's port of Anaconda as an option in Ubuntu ?
[07:42] <tomeu> tried "linux root=/dev/hda2" but it gives a kernel panic
[07:42] <Mithrandir> LinuxJones: we might do it, but it's more likely we'll add a GUI to debian-installer
[07:42] <fsc> one thing that I do like about Ubuntu from reading the front page is that they have seemed to have adopted Python as an official scripting language.  I've just started getting into Python and it rocks
[07:42] <AndersAA> what panic? can't mount root filesystem or something?
[07:42] <tomeu> yes
[07:42] <tomeu> it doesn't likes /dev/hda2
[07:43] <tomeu> perhaps it uses a different syntax?
[07:43] <AndersAA> probably because it doesn't have the needed filesystem module loaded
[07:43] <tomeu> could be, it's ext3 with journal
[07:43] <LinuxJones> Mithrandir, cool 
[07:44] <LinuxJones> fsc, I'm just starting with Python as well and I really like it :)
[07:44] <esco> tomeu, it should be built into the kernel, not as a module
[07:44] <AndersAA> tomeu: http://www.pastebin.com/107552
[07:44] <tomeu> i will try to format the partition with ext2 and try again
[07:44] <tomeu> thank you very much!
[07:44] <AndersAA> you dont wanna run ext2...
[07:45] <fsc> so should i download a new daily ISO build if I have one from a few days ago?
[07:45] <esco> leave it as ext3 w/ journal
[07:45] <AndersAA> ext2 can mount an ext3 partition anyway
[07:46] <tomeu> i don't understand very well the info on the link
[07:46] <AndersAA> it creates a tmp dir in /mnt on the cd, then mounts your hd and needed directories, then "changes root", virtually putting you in your new install
[07:46] <AndersAA> from where you can install grub
[07:46] <AndersAA> when your done, write exit, umount the dirs mounted and reboot
[07:46] <tomeu> ok, cool
[07:47] <tomeu> thank you a lot, will try it now
[07:47] <AndersAA> np :), good luck
[07:47] <tomeu> thansk again, see you
[07:49] <Kamion> esco: no, it's fine as a module since we use an initrd
[07:50] <AndersAA> anyone know an eta on a forum integrated with the mailinglist thing?
[07:58] <fsc> are the installers going to be the same for the live.iso and the warty.iso?
[07:59] <fsc> I plan on installing ubuntu, but a livecd would be nice too, but i don't want knoppix-like install problems from a live cd
[07:59] <atomsk> fsc: make up your mind :)
[07:59] <sivang> anybody here with knowledge of SCSI devices, I need help configuring a Cheeta ;-)
[08:00] <Kamion> fsc: the live and install CDs are constructed really quite differently
[08:00] <fsc> atomsk: you can install knoppix, but the install isn't all that great
[08:01] <will> what is knoppix?
[08:01] <fsc> Kamion: uhhmmm..ok...I figured that much
[08:01] <fsc> will: a debian-based livecd distro
[08:02] <Kamion> fsc: and the live CD certainly doesn't use d-i ... so no
[08:02] <fsc> d-i?
[08:02] <Kamion> debian-installer
[08:02] <fsc> oh...ok, then non-live for me then
[08:03] <v13inc> i have been having some issues with installing ubuntu on my computer
[08:04] <atomsk> v13inc: what kind of issues?
[08:04] <v13inc> the cd will boot, and everything will work fine up until the installer trys to load 'md-modules-2.6.8.1-2-386-di' whereupon it stops and flashes at 33%
[08:04] <fsc> sounds like a burn problem
[08:05] <v13inc> i have tryed it on 2 cds now, i may need some higher quality cds though
[08:05] <v13inc> although on both the same thing happened
[08:05] <ranman> maybe your image is not complete..
[08:06] <v13inc> the md5 of the iso was correct
[08:06] <npmccallum> sivang: what questions do you have?
[08:06] <atomsk> v13inc: have you tried to take a look at the F3 or F4 console to get some information or does it freeze completely?
[08:06] <ranman> Linux hates you then, go back to windows..
[08:06] <ranman> haha
[08:06] <imka> vl3inc how fast did you burn the iso?
[08:07] <v13inc> i burned the first one at 32 i beleive and the second at 20
[08:08] <sivang> npmccallum : ok, here goes
[08:08] <imka> burn it 8x
[08:08] <v13inc> ill try that
[08:08] <imka> if you burn it fast, the chance is great that there's an error
[08:08] <v13inc> and what is this about the F3 and F4 console?
[08:08] <efb> hi, is there support do the second part of the install process over a PPPoE connection?
[08:08] <v13inc> like ctrl-alt-F3?
[08:08] <sivang> npmccallum : I have a Seegate Cheeta, ST336704LW
[08:08] <imka> there you can see the error messages so people can help you
[08:08] <atomsk> v13inc: just alt-F3
[08:09] <imka> and you can file a bug report too
[08:09] <atomsk> v13inc: you can get back with alt-F1
[08:09] <sivang> npmccallum : And an adaptec adapter supporting UltraWide SCSI (so i've been told)
[08:09] <imka> but try to burn it 8x it should work.
[08:09] <v13inc> ok. sounds good. i will try both of those then come back here if i have more problems
[08:09] <npmccallum> sivang: what is the model number?
[08:10] <sivang> npmccallum : I am now trying to make the SCSI cont. to recognize the disk, I guess I have some jumper config problem or else.
[08:10] <sivang> npmccallum : model # =  ST336704LW
[08:11] <npmccallum> sivang: it definately supports wide, I'm not sure about Ultra Wide though... better check the website
[08:11] <sivang> npmccallum : When I enter the adaptec menu, it says "unexpetced timeout occured" ?? ;-)
[08:12] <npmccallum> sivang: usually Ultra Wide SCSI controllers from Adaptec have "UW" at the end
[08:12] <npmccallum> sivang: I'm not sure what the LW is
[08:12] <sivang> npmccallum : I read on the installation intrsuction about termination settings, Motor Start Delay, etc. don't know how this would apply to my config though.
[08:12] <sivang> npmccallum : oh sorry, I thought you asked for the HD model #
[08:13] <sivang> npmccallum : AIC-7899
[08:13] <sivang> npmccallum :  so the SCSI bios reports.
[08:14] <npmccallum> sivang: check that model on the website
[08:14] <npmccallum> sivang: I know SCSI controllers can drop to a lower speed, but I'm not sure if the discs can
[08:15] <sivang> npmccallum :  I think it's more of a HD config problem, I am not sure how much jumpers it should carry for a sepcific configuration. also, what's the "Dealy Motor Start" thingy and "Single Ended" ?
[08:17] <npmccallum> sivang: you'll have to check hard drive documentation
[08:17] <npmccallum> sivang: however, "Single Ended" *may* mean Termination == on
[08:17] <npmccallum> sivang: but that is just a guess
[08:17] <npmccallum> sivang: delay motor start you should probably leave at the factory default
[08:18] <npmccallum> sivang: (factory defaults should be specified in the documentation, at least I hope)
[08:18] <sivang> npmccallum : it's 10,000 RPM disk, so I reckon I would hear it when it starts, but it seems it's not even starting. How can I trigger it to start?
[08:19] <akra> is there any way to tell nautilus to close the parent window when a child window is opened?
[08:19] <sivang> npmccallum : Actually, I tried looking at the documentation already - not much of know how comes from there...
[08:19] <akra> (other than pressing shift)
[08:20] <npmccallum> sivang: I'm pretty sure it starts when the scsi signal tells it to start
[08:20] <sivang> akra : you can configure every new link you press to open in the same window
[08:20] <tricky1> problems with install
[08:20] <npmccallum> sivang: though, the drive may be DOA
[08:21] <sivang> akra : you can use "gconf-editor" search for "always_use_broswer" and set it to "yes"
[08:21] <akra> sivang: the problem with that is that the title of the window becomes "File Browser : <dir>" so I can't see which dir it is on the "ask bar"
[08:21] <sivang> akra : that way,  every new filesystem path you browse to will appear on the same , reused window.
[08:21] <akra> what I'd really like is that the operation of shift is reversed
[08:21] <tricky1> at install of initrd it fails giving erroe: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg has.... with error code (1)
[08:22] <tricky1> errr...scratch that
[08:22] <tricky1> it's working now
[08:23] <akra> sivang: unless there's some way to get rid of "File Browser" from the title ?
[08:23] <sivang> npmccallum : How can I know for sure if the disc is defected?
[08:24] <sivang> akra : sorry, I have no idea. Maybe try at #gnome or  try find it on nautilus's docs.
[08:25] <npmccallum> sivang: could be the controller thta is dead too.  Or maybe neither :).
[08:25] <cybernout> maybe do an dmesg and see what shows up 
[08:25] <npmccallum> sivang: is the controller new?  is the drive new?  are you using any adapters to make the cable match the drive?
[08:25] <sivang> npmccallum : well, I can enter the setup screen of the SCSI bios, so....
[08:25] <cybernout> does the bios see it?
[08:25] <akra> cheers sivang :)
[08:27] <npmccallum> sivang: if you can reach the scsi bios then the controller *should* be working
[08:27] <sivang> npmccallum : this was a call center server, and I had all the SCSI wires and everything already set up inside the box
[08:27] <npmccallum> sivang: and it worked before?
[08:27] <sivang> npmccallum : this was a call center server, and I had all the SCSI wires and everything already set up inside the box.
[08:28] <cybernout> is he an bot (repeating itself) hmm, callcentre eh?
[08:28] <cybernout> the answering machine is sure working..:P
[08:28] <sivang> npmccallum :Not with this HD, with ultrastar from IBM. How can I for sure of the drive is deffective?
[08:29] <fsc> 135 meg down, little less than 400 to go
[08:29] <esco> silvang: put it in a different box and see what happens, if you can
[08:29] <esco> sivang*
[08:29] <esco> sry
[08:29] <npmccallum> sivang: can you match the settings from the ultrastar to the cheetah?
[08:30] <sivang> esco : don't have another box :(
[08:30] <esco> ahh
[08:30] <sivang> npmccallum : no. I don't have the info. But it looks like the SCSI bios won't let me choose disk parameters unless it's detected one.
[08:31] <npmccallum> sivang: on scsi drives most of the parameters are set via jumpers on the drive
[08:31] <npmccallum> sivang: what is the controller SCSI ID?
[08:33] <sivang> AIC-7899
[08:34] <sivang> npmccallum : will you be here in 30 minutes?
[08:35] <npmccallum> sivang: should be
[08:35] <sivang> ok
[08:35] <sivang> see you then
[08:37] <utter_noob> any advice on getting ubuntu to work with geforce 3 ti card?
[08:38] <utter_noob> will not start gdm
[08:44] <joseph> Hello
[08:44] <joseph> I need some help.
[08:45] <joseph> I  tried to log in with my usual id on here and I get an ~/.ICEauthority error. I'm not sure on how to fix it. :(
[08:55] <jensens> my cd-rw isnt recognized by K3B, what could be wrong? wasnt a problem with old sarge install
[08:56] <melf> i have the same problem :/
[08:56] <melf> ubuntu installer doesnt detect my cd-rw drive
[08:56] <melf> whereas sarge installer does it smoothly
[08:56] <neighborlee> jensens, make sure its listed properly in prefs and that your user can access it...rough guess but hey can't hurt to check ...( I dont have it installed )
[08:56] <theantix> interesting, ubuntu sets up my cdrw that no other linux distro has ever managed by default
[08:59] <_axel> hi, i have noticed something weird in the ubuntu console, if i start a command that takes pretty long, eg. listing the contents of a large tarball, then i hit ctrl-c during the operation, the command is interrupted but i dont get my shell prompt, i get kicked to login instead... anyone else getting that too? this doesnt happen in gnome terminal but the text console (tty1 etc)
[09:00] <jensens> neighborlee: thx, for the hint. the user isnt allowedto access it. do you know whats the name of the group is he need to be into?
[09:02] <neighborlee> jensens, hmm cdrom and video I'd imagine but I think those are default
[09:02] <jovian> dumb question whats the name of the package to let me play dvds on linux
[09:03] <jovian> libdvdss or something right
[09:03] <jovian> libdvdcss
[09:03] <neighborlee> jovian, use : totem-xine ( just totem comes installed so remove/install the other one via 'synaptic'
[09:03] <neighborlee> jovian, yes
[09:03] <jovian> okay thanks neighborlee
[09:04] <neighborlee> np
[09:06] <neighborlee> bb
[09:07] <nasdaq4088> tonight is so hot - my entire system needs to cool down
[09:08] <opi> nasdaq4088: 19c in Poland
[09:08] <opi> nasdaq4088: nice temp. consider it's fall ;)
[09:08] <nasdaq4088> must be around 35 here
[09:08] <opi> 35 at night
[09:09] <opi> I would be dead :)
[09:09] <nasdaq4088> yes
[09:09] <nasdaq4088> 19 is cool
[09:09] <nasdaq4088> there goes the server
[09:09] <nasdaq4088> kornbluth
[09:10] <neuro_> mmm, netsplittastic
[09:10] <jensens> strange: my user is in group cdrom, /dev/hdc is 660 for root.cdrom and i still cant burn as a user (only root).
[09:13] <WW_> Does anyone know of IRC channels, newsgroups, or forums for Evolution?
[09:14] <WW_> (That's Evolution the software, not Darwin's evolution.)
[09:15] <azeem> I guess questions about evo are on-topic here
[09:15] <nasdaq4088> mammals evolved from sea animals
[09:15] <neighborlee> jensens, not sure..my burning isn't installed yet so I can't help you ...ill know more soon 
[09:15] <opi> nasdaq4088: I have my doubts when I look at politicans ;)
[09:17] <nasdaq4088> :)
[09:17] <nasdaq4088> they evolved from crocodiles
[09:18] <neighborlee> WW_, yes there is.its on : irc.gnome.org | #evolution
[09:18] <azeem> neighborlee: uhm, that's a development chan, no?
[09:19] <neighborlee> opi, well yes I know what you mean..rarely do they reallly have 'best interest' of average joe at heart..BUT I guarantee you bush aint the answer based on his 'divide and conquer' mentality...hes' just a rednick numnut whom ill be glad to see go
[09:19] <neighborlee> azeem, dunno
[09:19] <neighborlee> azeem, either way you'll prob. get help
[09:21] <WW_> neighborlee: Thanks. Even if it is development, they could probably point me in the right direction.
[09:23] <WW_> Evolution has to be one of the worst names for a computer program.  Try googling evolution  :-)
[09:23] <neighborlee> LOL
[09:23] <neighborlee> heh yeah
[09:23] <MepisBelle> WW_: Bloated mega-pig of an app too!
[09:23] <MepisBelle> lol
[09:23] <neighborlee> WW_, as much as I like evo..its horribly slow when grabbing email..they should get a clue from other apps ;-)
[09:24] <neighborlee> ;)
[09:24] <crimsun> like mutt.
[09:24] <crimsun> ;)
[09:24] <MepisBelle> Thunderbird rox.
[09:24] <neighborlee> heh well ...I suppose but thats not the example I h ad in mind LOL
[09:24] <neighborlee> i'm thinking..thunderbird ;-)
[09:24] <mxpxpod> does ubuntu's boot cd have a rescue mode?
[09:24] <crimsun> grub does ;)
[09:25] <neighborlee> although You can make it some quicker by disabling the 'body' from filters
[09:26] <mxpxpod> crimsun: was that to me?
[09:26] <crimsun> mxpxpod: half-jokingly, yes
[09:26] <crimsun> what's up precisely?
[09:26] <sivang> npmccallum : back
[09:27] <mxpxpod> crimsun: my hard drive is crashing, so I need to get an image of my drive that I can use to restore my drive if the place I'm taking it to can't back it up
[09:27] <crimsun> welp, let's find out
[09:27] <sivang> npmccallum : One thing I have leanred - I can set the Device Id (0..15) per channel using the jumper, should I change it from ID 0 ?
[09:27] <crimsun> got plenty of xp machines here at work to test with ;)
[09:27] <mxpxpod> crimsun: so I looked here: http://www.cpqlinux.com/ddbackup.html and it says to go into rescue mode (or another one told me that)
[09:28] <mxpxpod> crimsun: cool :)
[09:28] <mxpxpod> crimsun: also, check if there's ssh in rescue mode if it exists
[09:31] <ashgan> hi
[09:31] <crimsun> 'lo
[09:33] <ashgan> i have a bug with firefox, since his last update
[09:35] <ashgan> i didn't find a way to reinstall it proprely
[09:35] <crimsun> mxpxpod: there doesn't appear to be :/
[09:35] <mxpxpod> crimsun: :(
[09:35] <crimsun> mxpxpod: could try busybox on the second console, though
[09:35] <crimsun> i guess knoppix would be my suggestion
[09:36] <crimsun> ashgan: what sort of bug?
[09:36] <ashgan> i found it on bugzilla, the 1985
[09:37] <jrydberg_> anyone swedish here?
[09:37] <ashgan> i can launch it from a root console, but no more from my normal account
[09:37] <npmccallum> sivang: 0 is usually ok
[09:37] <npmccallum> sivang: do you have any other SCSI devices in the system?
[09:39] <ashgan> it bring me a gecko window with " title="&mainWindow.title;" " and that's all
[09:40] <crimsun> ashgan: try purging it and forcibly removing the directory, then reinstalling it
[09:41] <ashgan> after a apt-get remove, it keep the .mozilla directory?
[09:41] <opi> ashgan: yes
[09:41] <ashgan> ok.. i haven't tryed this :s
[09:42] <crimsun> ashgan: sudo dpkg -P mozilla-firefox && sudo rm -rf /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/ && sudo apt-get --reinstall install mozilla-firefox
[09:43] <crimsun> ashgan: you shouldn't have to mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla.old, though
[09:44] <ashgan> it woks :)
[09:44] <ajross> hello every1.
[09:44] <ashgan> i did it slowly, but it works
[09:45] <ajross> anyone any idea how to set up Nvidia GForce drivers on Ubuntu AMD64?
[09:45] <ajross> it worries about kernel sources and other stuff then the installer dies
[09:45] <ashgan> i just forgot to trash the .mozilla 
[09:45] <ashgan> thks
[09:45] <crimsun> k :)
[09:46] <ashgan> the linux way is the hard way
[09:46] <ashgan> ;)
[09:48] <jensens> ajross: runs here, you need nvidia-glx, replace "nv" driver by "nvidia" in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, mofprobe nivida, restart x
[09:48] <jensens> ajross: should be the same on a 64?
[09:50] <ajross> many thanks jensens
[09:50] <ajross> ;)
[09:51] <WW_> jensens: Are you on an AMD64?
[09:52] <oik> hey guys
[09:52] <jensens> WW_: not with ubuntu
[09:53] <WW_> jensens, ajross: A few days ago, someone here said that the nvidia drivers were not (yet) available for ubuntu.
[09:53] <WW_> There is a short note about it in the wiki FAQ.
[09:53] <jensens> ah! ok, didnt know that
[09:53] <WW_> not yet available for AMD64 in ubuntu, that is.
[09:54] <oik> Anyone know how to alter the options that are given in the "screen resolution" dialog box?
[09:54] <ajross> I went to the nvidia website, there is AM64 version there ( a binary )
[09:54] <alexg> oik: I believe that involves poking around in your X config file.
[09:54] <ajross> but on running, it compains that there is no kernel module available, and must compile one, but it cant find the kernel source and dies
[09:54] <alexg> I just got done fixing refresh rates so that I was stuck at an eye-blistering 60 Hz.
[09:55] <alexg> The instructions in the FAQ for getting totem-xine and friends for DVD playing don't seem to work on AMD64.  Suggestions as to where to get those packages?
[09:55] <oik> alexg: yeah, I ran xf86cfg and selected "monitor that can do 1280x1024 at 76hz" but it doesn't seem to do anything
[09:55] <jayeola> how does one play vcds on a linux box?
[09:56] <alexg> Hmm... I haven't used xf86cfg or anything in a while, but you might look at your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 to make sure the refresh rates and stuff are what you want.
[09:56] <oik> alexg: was just hoping there was an easier way.
[09:56] <oik> 60Hz is really painful, I can't look at it...
[09:57] <alexg> oik: Me neither.  All I had to do to fix it up was fix the refresh rates in that file and restart X (not just logout so gdm starts up.  Restart X).
[09:57] <oik> jayeola: I think mplayer will handle VCD's
[09:57] <alexg> I'm not sure if there's a graphical way to do that.
[09:58] <oik> alexg: I'll have a poke around in the XF86Config-4 then...
[09:58] <jayeola> oik but there are a load of directories, which one do i point mplayer to and what file should i point to?
[09:59] <alexg> oik: You're looking for the HorizSync and VertRefresh options in the Monitor section.
[09:59] <alexg> Make sure those match what you want for your monitor.
[10:01] <alexg> And be a little careful with those as bad settings can damage your monitor.  If you've got your monitor's manual (or can find a copy online or something), that should have the refresh rates the monitor supports in it.
[10:01] <alexg> Just plug those into those two options and restart X and you should be good.
[10:02] <oik> Jayeola: try this URL: http://tc.chem.vu.nl/~fleig/timo/MP/cd-dvd.html
[10:02] <blablabla> hi
[10:02] <blablabla> someone can help me?
[10:02] <MeLaO_> any way to install MPlayer in ubuntu?
[10:02] <oik> alexg: yeah, just trying to find out the right settings....
[10:03] <atomsk> MeLaO_: someone correct me if I'm wrong but same thing you did for Debian MeLaO_...
[10:03] <blablabla> i need kernel-sources of Kernel that install ubuntu but it doesn appear with APT
[10:04] <blablabla> sorry, but my english...it's no good
[10:04] <Kamion> blablabla: linux-source-2.6.8.1
[10:04] <alexg> Anyone know where to get amd64 totem-xine and libdvdcss2 packages?  The instructions in the wiki point to an i386-only repository.
[10:04] <atomsk> Kamion: any reason why the name is different?
[10:05] <Kamion> atomsk: kernel-* is a historical name, we decided to take the opportunity to fix it
[10:05] <guptan> Hi Room
[10:05] <Kamion> atomsk: since the upstream name is "linux"
[10:05] <blablabla> that's what i need to install Nvidia drivers. It's correct?
[10:05] <guptan> is there any download manager for http downloads in ubuntu?
[10:05] <Kamion> atomsk: people have been talking about changing it in Debian for years, but not got round to it
[10:05] <guptan> can wget resume downloads?
[10:05] <atomsk> Kamion: I guess thats good. What about the compiled kernel?
[10:06] <oik> guptan: use wget -c
[10:06] <Kamion> atomsk: what about it? :)
[10:06] <atomsk> Kamion: is it linux-2.6.8.1? :)
[10:06] <Kamion> atomsk: linux-image-*, yes
[10:06] <atomsk> Kamion: oh. didnt notice. Thanks for the info...
[10:07] <atomsk> hope some folks out there wont think they can install linux with "apt-get install linux-image-2.x.x" :)
[10:08] <hazmat> anyone know how to get a firewire video camera (isight) to work in ubuntu
[10:08] <Kamion> atomsk: well, since it'll already be installed I doubt it'll do them much good ...
[10:09] <blablabla> kamion: thx ;)
[10:10] <oik> alexg: have looked at XF86Config-4. I think the problem is in the "screens" section; none of the "modes" goes higher than 1024x768, I'll restart X now and see if it worked. 
[10:10] <alexg> oik: Yeah.  That's also something to look at it when sorting out this sort of thing.
[10:15] <carmen> a bit confused by the 'sid' comment on the webpage. does this mean if its not in sid (firefox 1.0, rox-session, xfce4.2, gnome2.8, xorg, php5apache2) its not in ubuntu? or is that what 'hoary' is for?
[10:16] <carmen> i use powerpc btw, maybe those pkgs are in sid x86..
[10:16] <carmen> but many are def. not
[10:16] <crash_> ok how long is ubuntu estimated to live? a half year and then the devleoped goes down?
[10:17] <SamBozo> carmen let me find a page that mey help you
[10:17] <carmen> sambozo:" i was going to extract hte pkglist .gz, but didnt get around to it yet..
[10:18] <carmen> im just looking for a up to date binary distribution, basically if it had all the stuff in gentoo but wasnt source-based that would be perfect :)
[10:19] <SamBozo> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components
[10:19] <SamBozo> that page was the one that explained the repositories for me
[10:20] <SamBozo> and yes the pkg list will be ur best bet, it didn't have some things I wanted , so I changed the repositorys and went and apt-get (using synaptic) and got them
[10:21] <crash_> can i use my debian repos for ubunut?
[10:21] <crash_> or doi need to use the ubunu,com
[10:21] <SamBozo> i've just had it on for a day crash_ so I'm still just using what they had in the distro
[10:22] <tck> best using ubuntu
[10:25] <Destrado> How could I put a computer running Ubuntu "to sleep" or on "standby"?
[10:26] <siretart> crash|: you want to read the faq, all your questions so far are answered there
[10:26] <crash|> siretart:ok thx
[10:27] <Destrado> I only ask because the option doesn't appear in the "Log Out" options.
[10:29] <calc> anyone here used ubuntu amd64 with xfree86?
[10:29] <Kamion> calc: yes
[10:29] <Kamion> do you mean with x.org maybe? xfree86 is our default
[10:30] <calc> no the default, it doesn't work for me, i'll copy the log file off the laptop, perhaps you can tell what is wrong
[10:30] <Kamion> I won't be able to, fabbione or daniels might
[10:32] <Crush> darksatanic: Good evening.
[10:32] <darksatanic> Evening, Crush.
[10:32] <alexg> Okay.  Found a repository with amd64 totem-xine.  But still no libdvdcss.  Any help finding that one for amd64?
[10:33] <nasdaq4088> imagine ubundu existed in 1995 -> just think where technology would have been today.
[10:34] <calc> ok i grabbed the logs
[10:34] <calc> fabbione: here?
[10:34] <alexg> oik: Any luck?
[10:35] <oik> alexg: yeah, once I found out the correct Horiz/Vert settings, and put in the correct mode in the Screens section, and rebooted.
[10:36] <oik> Interestingly enough "init 3" didn't work
[10:36] <oik> that would stop X in fedora
[10:36] <oik> not sure why
[10:36] <oik> and "init 1" locked up my machine
[10:36] <alexg> I'm not familiar enough with Debian/Ubuntu's run levels to know.
[10:36] <oik> nor me
[10:37] <oik> still, I have a lovely resolution now
[10:37] <calc> daniels: here?
[10:37] <azeem> oik: debian does not have any differences for runlevels 2-5
[10:37] <alexg> Yeah.  I went from 1600x1200 at 60 to 1600x1200 at 85 after fixing the x config.
[10:37] <alexg> Part way to watching DVDs.  Now I'm stuck on finding libdvdcss...
[10:37] <azeem> oik: and Ubuntu does not expose the user to runlevels at all, AFAIK
[10:37] <akra> where would I find httpd.conf ?
[10:37] <calc> it says it Caught signal 11 but i don't see any other major issues (afaict)
[10:38] <oik> azeem: That's interesting. How do you stop X then?
[10:38] <azeem> /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[10:38] <alexg> What oik said.  How do you force X to restart?
[10:38] <akra> aha - nm - found it :0
[10:38] <azeem> /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[10:38] <alexg> Ah.
[10:38] <siretart> alexg: ctrl-alt-backsp
[10:38] <azeem> siretart: dunno if that really restarts the X server though
[10:38] <oik> thanks azeem, I'll try and remember that
[10:38] <LinuxJones> oik, runlevels 2-5 are the same in Debian you can remove the symlink in /etc/rc3.d/ for gdm to stop loading in theat runlevel (starts with an S)
[10:38] <azeem> probably does
[10:38] <siretart> azeem: it kills him. what do you want more ;)
[10:39] <alexg> siretart: Yeah. I just remembered that.  D'oh.
[10:39] <siretart> azeem: it does NOT restart gdm, if you mean that.
[10:40] <crash|> dose ubuntu auto add a windows partion to the grub bootloader?
[10:40] <Kamion> crash|: yes
[10:40] <crash|> nice
[10:41] <calc> it didn't work on my system, but perhaps there is a bug?
[10:41] <mjr> incidentally, while I know upgrading from debian isn't supported, should it work if I install grub after doing that (now using lilo)?
[10:41] <oik> LinuxJones: I don't want to mess around with runlevels - am trying to move from fedora to debian so I'll try and do stuff the "debian way"
[10:42] <Kamion> calc: what, the grub configuration for Windows? Have a look at the os-prober code if you want to check what it does against your system ...
[10:42] <LinuxJones> oik, you can check out update-rc.d from the man pages. That's what Debian uses to administrate runlevel stuff.
[10:43] <calc> Kamion: ok
[10:43] <bestadvocate> hello
[10:43] <Kamion> you should actually just manage the symlinks by hand
[10:43] <Kamion> update-rc.d is for use by packages' maintainer scripts
[10:43] <tortoise__> whats the advantages of this type of init script compared to the much simpler gentoo ones?
[10:44] <tortoise__> i mean init system..
[10:44] <LinuxJones> Kamion, I been using it for the last 3 years....oops
[10:44] <kogase> i'm trying to burn a cd, and aparently i have to append hda=ide-scsi to the grub conf, so i did. but one of the first messages as the system boots up is relating to hda=ide-scsi, and it says that ide_mod could not be found... what does this mean?
[10:45] <tortoise__> kogase: are you sure that is necessary with 2.6 kernels?
[10:45] <alexg> ide-scsi shouldn't be necessary with 2.6.x kernels...
[10:46] <oik> Kamion: Is there any particular reason that update-rc.d should only be used by scripts?
[10:46] <kogase> well, xcdroast warns me about it, and cdrecord won't do anything without ide-scsi
[10:46] <kogase> it happened on suse too, and i had to use ide-scsi to fix it
[10:46] <alexg> cdrecord dev=/dev/hdX doesn't work?
[10:46] <bestadvocate> i got a sugestion by someone last night that i use http://hpisi.nerim.net/ for some of the debian packeges I've been loking for, could someone give me an idea of how that should be typed into the etc/apt/sources.list?
[10:47] <alexg> That should be fine with 2.6.x kernels.
[10:47] <bestadvocate> for my ubunto debian packeges that is
[10:47] <bestadvocate> :] 
[10:47] <siretart> kogase: cdrecord is capable of burning cds with ide-cd and 2.6. no need for ide-scsi anymore!
[10:48] <LinuxJones> bestadvocate, what packages are you looking for that are not included in Ubuntu ?
[10:48] <Kamion> oik: that's all it was designed to do - its interface is really far too awkward for sysadmin use
[10:48] <kogase> cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/sg*'. Cannot open SCSI driver.
[10:48] <siretart> kogase: cdrecord uses a rather weird numbering scheme with ide-cd, i have to use -dev=ATA:1,0,0
[10:49] <azeem> usually, -dev=/dev/hdb or so also works
[10:49] <siretart> kogase: try cdrecord -dev=ATA -scanbus
[10:49] <azeem> at least here
[10:49] <siretart> azeem: yes, but thats not guaranteed
[10:49] <kogase> i tried dev=/dev/hda... it's doing something...
[10:49] <alexg> bestadvocate: You should be using ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ (there's a message saying so at the URL you posted).
[10:49] <kogase> i wonder why k3b in suse never did that
[10:50] <oik> Kamion: right, OK
[10:50] <kogase> it's gonna be half a year till ubuntu uses xorg. and on OS without dropshadows is not an OS at all
[10:51] <siretart> kogase: says who?
[10:52] <kogase> didn't i?
[10:52] <ajross> sorry for sounding dumb, but how do you set up a printer in Gnome 2.8 - I can't work out how to configure the thing for CUPS
[10:53] <LinuxJones> ajross, Computer >> Sysstem Configuration >> Printing
[10:54] <LinuxJones> ajross, then enter your user password
[10:54] <ajross> yeah done that, except the CUPS stuff makes no sense
[10:54] <LinuxJones> ajross, is it a local printer on your machine ?
[10:54] <ajross> nope, its a networked one.
[10:55] <ajross> cupsd running on a Redhat 9 box is serving it
[10:55] <ajross> the configuration dialogue in gnome 2.8 talks about ipp://hostname/ipp, which I've never heard of before?
[10:56] <LinuxJones> ajross, you should pick ipp (cups) for a networked printer. (I don't have a networked printer)
[10:56] <tortoise__> ajross, you can stop cupsd all together and set your cups/client.conf to point to the server
[10:58] <Se7h> how do i enable NTP ?
[10:59] <WW_> ajross: You are not alone: http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cups-horror.html
[10:59] <ajross> i don't know how to tell Gnome to talk to my cups server on the other host, I used to use lpd and things were easy - tell it the hostname and the queue and all was good. I dunno whats going on here.
[11:00] <fsc> just did my first ubuntu install...easy enough..including ndiswrapper
[11:00] <tortoise__> ajross edit SERVERNAME in /etc/cups/client.conf to be your servers hostname
[11:00] <tck> fsc : smooth init
[11:00] <kogase> fsc, easy enough for you and me
[11:00] <ajross> thx tortoise__, I'll try that
[11:01] <kogase> and... uh. everyone who would know how to use irc
[11:01] <fsc> nice to see ndiswrapper-utils in the repository
[11:03] <nxvl> hi
[11:03] <nxvl> i have justo install Ubuntu Linux
[11:04] <nxvl> and i want to edit my apt-sources
[11:04] <ajross> tortoise__: after entering that into the clients file and restarting cups, the whole print system died. Gnome Print Manager thinks printer is paused.
[11:04] <nxvl> where can i find some mirror to put in mi sources.list
[11:04] <nxvl> ??
[11:04] <Kamion> nxvl: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[11:04] <nxvl> thnx
[11:06] <fsc> hmm...where's synaptic in the menus
[11:07] <ajross> Computer > System Configuration > Synaptic
[11:07] <fsc> thanks
[11:09] <calc> fabbione: the debug server runs fine, only the non -dbg version crashes
[11:10] <fabbione> calc: nvidia driver?
[11:10] <calc> fabbione: no, ati radeon 9600 default xserver-xfree86 driver
[11:11] <fabbione> HMMMMMMMm
[11:11] <calc> well ati mobility radeon 9600 to be exact
[11:11] <calc> on amd64 port
[11:11] <fabbione> i am afraid the X loader is borked on 64bit machines
[11:11] <fabbione> an option would be to compile the module internally
[11:11] <fabbione> but that's freaking annoying
[11:11] <calc> it at least used to work on pure64 and works fine on fedora core (but it uses xorg)
[11:12] <fabbione> calc: i know... xorg does..
[11:12] <calc> i can't verify it still works on pure64 since i need a new d-i first that has MSI disabled
[11:13] <fabbione> calc: can you try do one check for me?
[11:13] <calc> sure
[11:13] <fabbione> hmmm
[11:13] <fabbione> no... it will fail at builf time
[11:14] <fabbione> hmm ok
[11:14] <fabbione> grab the xfree86 sources and build-deps
[11:14] <fabbione> debian/rules
[11:14] <fabbione> SERVERDEBUG_IMAKE_DEFINES
[11:14] <fabbione> change the line to look like:
[11:15] <fabbione> SERVERDEBUG_IMAKE_DEFINES:=-DXFree86CustomVersion='\"Ubuntu (test) $(SOURCE_VERSION) $(TIMESTAMP) $(BUILDER)\"' -DBuildServersOnly=YES -DDoLoadableServer=NO
[11:16] <fabbione> and install the -dbg package that will come out of that compilation
[11:16] <calc> ok
[11:16] <fabbione> basically it is a normal server that has all the modules compiled in
[11:16] <fabbione> with the same optimiziations as the normal one
[11:16] <fabbione> and no debugging crap (i think)
[11:17] <fabbione> i am checking another few lines ;)
[11:17] <calc> ok
[11:19] <fabbione> i am not completely sure if the loader is borked because of -O2 or because of the 64bits
[11:19] <fabbione> building a *all* compiled in server with -O2 is the first step to check ;)
[11:20] <Se7h> how do i enable NTP ?
[11:20] <Se7h> :|
[11:21] <calc> fabbione: ok
[11:21] <fabbione> Se7h: apt-get install ntp-simple
[11:22] <Se7h> thanks
[11:22] <will> hi how do i disable ACPI and enable APM?
[11:23] <fsc> do i have to manually change the xfree86-4 config file after i install the radeon driver?
 ajross, Computer >> System Configuration >> Printing .. and if you are using xfce4 for your window manager what is the program name?
[11:27] <Markus_> I thought Ubunto were already stable! I have problems with linux that I had years before, the last time.. *sigh* anybody who can help me?
[11:28] <smeggy> Just write your question and someone will help if they can.
[11:28] <siretart> what package do I need to install to test usplashd?
[11:29] <Markus_> My serial 3-Button-Mouse doesnt work.. and I have a message called "modprobe: FATAL: Error inserting pciehp (same with shpchp) whats that!?!
[11:29] <Kamion> siretart: it doesn't exist yet AFAIK
[11:30] <Kamion> I don't know about the former; I believe the modprobe messages are harmless.
[11:30] <siretart> Kamion: aah, that explains...
[11:31] <Markus_> I mouse who is soo simple.. I got never a distribution who didnt recognize such a simple kind of hardware.. ?!?
[11:32] <Kamion> Markus_: which architecture is this?
[11:32] <Markus_> i386?
[11:32] <Kamion> Markus_: can you type 'lsmod | grep mouse' at a terminal?
[11:32] <oik1> markus: I have the same error. It doesn't seem to do any harm
[11:33] <calc> fabbione: so chop off everything at the end of that line after DoLoadableServer?
[11:34] <Markus_> it says: mousedev & psmouse
[11:34] <Kamion> fabbione: see Markus_'s comments, one for you maybe? perhaps the serial mouse driver doesn't show up in /dev/input/mice?
[11:34] <Markus_> but it is a serial mouse?
[11:34] <Kamion> you could try 'sudo modprobe sermouse', just to see ...
[11:34] <Kamion> I suspect it's more an X configuration problem though
[11:36] <Markus_> ok i did it - and now?
[11:36] <Kamion> restart X, see if that helps
[11:36] <Markus_> I also changed my Protocol at the XFConfig to "Auto" what worked sometimes at other dists..
[11:37] <Markus_> i restarted it.. didnt work..
[11:37] <Kamion> will have to hand over to fabbione then
[11:39] <imka> good evening
[11:39] <crimsun> hi.
[11:40] <Markus_> if it did not work today I go back to debian.. ;o) ..great ideas behind ubuntu, but many things did not work here.. how that could be a desktop-user-distribution? ;o)
[11:41] <Kamion> Markus_: please file a bug, I'm sure it can be fixed straightforwardly
[11:42] <Markus_> okay.. what is the bug? i got a serial mouse, who worked from Win 3.11 - XP and in  Suse, Debian, Mandrake *gg*
[11:42] <riley> now that i finally got ubuntu to work on my system i must say it's a combination of the most user friendly and most powerful linux distribution i've yet tried!
[11:43] <guptan> has anyone successfully installed Mplayer on ubuntu? can I get details if any
[11:43] <jblack> I did, but I think I got it from debian? 
[11:44] <guptan> oh how can I do it on ubuntu.
[11:44] <crimsun> guptan: please see item #2 at http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions
[11:44] <jblack> Nope. I got it neither from ubuntu nor debian.
[11:44] <tortoise__> whats the command for the gnome runlevel editor that is part of gnome-system-tools??
[11:44] <Markus_> okay.. lets see.. what is the protocol for a serial mouse? "serial"?
[11:44] <oik1> Should I file bugs for the following error in my /var/log/messages?Oct  5 21:21:31 localhost kernel: Badness in device_release at drivers/base/core.c:85
[11:44] <oik1> Oct  5 21:21:31 localhost kernel:  [kobject_cleanup+64/101]  kobject_cleanup+0x40/0x65
[11:44] <oik1> Oct  5 21:21:31 localhost kernel:  [__crc___bitmap_andnot+5944744/10939662]  init_i82365+0x6f/0x179 [i82365] 
[11:44] <oik1> Oct  5 21:21:31 localhost kernel:  [sys_init_module+227/468]  sys_init_module+0xe3/0x1d4 Oct  5 21:21:31 localhost kernel:  [sysenter_past_esp+82/113]  sysenter_past_esp+0x52/0x71
[11:45] <Ex-Cyber> From the FAQ: "There are a number of commonly used formats and tools that we are unable to support because they have restrictive distribution rights, require special licenses, or are patent encumbered." ... is there an effort to keep track of these somewhere along with the particular reason that they're not supported and what could be done to fix the problem?
[11:45] <will> Hi does anyone know how to disable ACPI and enable APM in linux?
[11:46] <siretart> Ex-Cyber: I would very appreciate seeing such a page in the wiki
[11:46] <siretart> will: try boot option acpi=off
[11:47] <Markus_> what is the protocol for a serial mouse? do it work when I change my Device from "dev/input/mice" to something like the serial port?
[11:47] <Ex-Cyber> siretart: as would I... I'm new to Ubuntu in general so I don't know who makes decisions about this stuff
[11:47] <tortoise__> will:i dont think the ubunto kernel has apm built in
[11:48] <will> siretart: where is that boot option?
[11:48] <crimsun> oik1: would you paste the entire message to pastebin.com please?
[11:48] <siretart> Markus_: try loading the module "sermouse", then it should work with /dev/input/mice
[11:49] <siretart> will: in /boot/grub/menu.lst, the line starting with `kernel`
[11:49] <Markus_> but it doesnt
[11:49] <Markus_> perhaps I got to change the protocol
[11:49] <siretart> Markus_: double check /var/log/kern.log for debugging messages
[11:49] <Markus_> first it was PS2 or something.. then I changed it to "Auto".. 
[11:50] <Markus_> and what is the serial protocol called?
[11:50] <Markus_> okay i look
[11:50] <calc> or set it on the kopt line if you want it on all kernels
[11:50] <calc> the kernel line gets rewritten when update-grub is run
[11:51] <oik1> crimsun: OK, just working it out...
[11:51] <tortoise__> Markus_: a serial mouse is too simple not to work, its either broke or somethings set wrong
[11:51] <will> what will it revert to with acpi=off ?
[11:51] <tortoise__> will:nothing
[11:52] <will> is there a way of configuring ACPI in x?
[11:52] <will> cant find it in config
[11:52] <Markus_> yes i thought that too.. so, what is wrong.. *sigh*
[11:52] <oik1> crimsun: done.
[11:53] <crimsun> oik1: actually need more from before
[11:53] <crimsun> oik1: but "badness" in and of itself isn't fatal
[11:54] <zenwhen> [ cpu ]  Dual Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz | 3606.306 MHz | 512 KB Cache | BogoMIPS: 14336 | CPU Usage: 0%
[11:54] <zenwhen> ;O
[11:55] <carmen> which meta-package can be installed to get like, all of gnome (or at least most of it, or at the very least, something htat writes out a valid .xsession file, if there should be something in it besides 'gnome-session')
[11:55] <Markus_> what a f...
[11:55] <oik1> crimsun: I posted the entire log from the last reboot up to the error
[11:56] <will> siretart: can you configure ACPI in X?
[11:56] <Markus_> I will reinstall my old dist.. it is easier to build Gnome 2.8 myself than work out these senseless errors :o(
[11:56] <crimsun> oik1: thanks, looking
[11:56] <siretart> will: what do you mean with configuring?
[11:56] <tortoise__> does anyone use the gnome runlevel editor?
[11:56] <will> ie drive spin down, blank screen, etc
[11:57] <will> siretart: ie drive spin down, blank screen, etc
[11:58] <siretart> will: linux acpi implementation is not that far enough to allow that. 
[11:58] <will> siretart: kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-2-386 root=/dev/hda2 ro quiet splash acpi=off
[11:58] <will>  is that correct?
[11:58] <oik1> crimsun: There are some other errors while booting, that do not end up in /var/log/messages - I've had a grep around in /var/log, but can't find them. Is there anywhere else they might be logged?
[11:58] <siretart> will: looks good
[11:59] <siretart> will: check out http://acpi.sf.net to see whats already possible
[11:59] <will> Oikl: I get about 3 errors on bootup
[11:59] <Markus_> okay bye... my tip for now: BETTER USE KANOTIX :o)
[11:59] <oik1> will: but where are they logged?
[12:00] <Kamion> Markus_: please make sure a bug is filed so that we can fix it for the next person to come along, that's all.