yuvalKamion, sivang, https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123112:00
mdzis there any way to play a Vorbis stream from firefox, e.g. as background audio for a web page?12:03
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
Kamionquick review of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2123 please?12:04
Kamionyuval: thanks, I noticed your updates; I'll have a look tomorrow12:04
Kamion(since most of my other RC stuff is out of the way now)12:04
Kamionyuval: it seems to be a d-i bug too12:05
Kamionhe_IL.UTF-8 UTF-812:05
Kamionhe_IL ISO-8859-812:05
Kamionbut languagelist has:12:05
Kamion... in fact, why don't I just have a look tonight ...12:06
yuvalKamion: I checked debian installer and there is no problam there.12:06
Kamionreally? languagelist seems to be the same12:06
yuvalubuntu have a more update base-config, maybe something changed.12:07
thomKamion: that patch looks reasonable at plain reading12:07
Kamionthom: actually there's a minor bug in the LENOF macro (insufficient parentheses at one point), although it doesn't affect this case12:08
Kamionyuval: don't see anything relevant in the base-config changelog12:09
=== thom takes that as his cue to go to bed
Kamionthom: but thanks12:12
Kamionwill upload now12:12
yuvalKamion: What is he_IL;he_IL;he;IL;he_IL:he:en_GB:en ?12:12
thomi'm almost at matchsticks to hold eyes open here :-)12:12
Kamionyuval: too complicated to explain here, look in the languagechooser source ...12:13
yuvalI'll do that.12:13
KamionI'm trying it out with the first two he_IL entries changed to he_IL.UTF-812:14
Kamionnot that I speak Hebrew, but fortunately I can drive the installer almost blind :)12:15
mdzKamion: how confident are you in this archive-copier change?12:16
Kamionmdz: seems to work when I test package-cache-names at the command line12:16
mdzKamion: it's tempting to revert to copying everything, considering the late hour12:16
Kamionthat seems overkill; this is a really easy change12:17
yuvalKamion: Do you know how "Hebrew" looks in Hebrew?12:17
Kamionyuval: not even that12:17
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mdzKamion: ok, if you're confident, it's OK with me12:18
Kamionmdz: if you're really uncomfortable with the change to C code I can fix it in debian/postinst, but that's harder to test12:18
Kamion(since I have to boot d-i to test it in that case)12:18
mdzKamion: it looks bigger than it is, due to the renaming12:19
mdzI think it's fine12:19
yuvalI'll be back in half an hour. I go out with my dog.12:22
sivangKamion : hand me over an iso when you set it up, I'll test it on my USB kbd12:25
sivangKamion  : however if the languagle list is the same like debian's , I don't see why it should break.12:25
Kamionthat does puzzle me12:27
sivangI mean, you havn't touched anything on the lists right?12:27
Kamionwe are somewhat behind on languagechooser/countrychooser/base-config, and the interactions there are subtle12:28
sivangBTW : how can I svr or else get U-I's source?12:28
Kamion(and quick to anger)12:28
Kamionsivang: from the source packages in the archive. we have no revision control yet.12:28
sivangapt-get source u-i/d-i ? ;)12:29
Kamionit's easy for me, since I uploaded most of it and can just look in ~/src/ubuntu/ :-)12:29
Kamionno, individual source packages12:29
Kamionso e.g. apt-get source languagechooser12:29
sivangmuch better ;)12:29
=== sivang feels again the need for 3mb downstream broadband..
sivangfor iso testing..;)12:30
sivangKamion : the languagechooser scripty is the whole source?12:31
=== T-Bone would rather have the opposite of his current setup: 6mb dl/ 0.5mb up. Much better to upload big packages and run servers ;)
Kamionsivang: it has complex interactions; if you're interested in figuring out how d-i works it's probably much easier to check out the upstream source from subversion, at the moment12:32
sivangKamion : oh, you removed all the remarks and stuff? :)12:32
Kamionbut it's easier to navigate the upstream tree since it's all in one piece12:33
Kamionerk, he_IL.UTF-8 doesn't even work a little bit for me12:33
T-BoneKamion: btw, i've been unfortunately delayed on the ia64 side, but I haven't dropped d-i stuff there. It's just a 1week delay, most likely12:33
sivangKamion : you on the USB kbd?12:37
Kamionsivang: that's not relevant for this part of the bug12:38
Kamionsivang: don't get too distracted by the keyboard thing; it's connected, but it won't be the thing causing text to be unreadable12:39
sivangoh , _that_ bug12:40
sivangI thought we were discussing the one that fails right when d-i starts.12:40
sivang*that makes d-i fail on start12:40
Kamionwell, there seem to be two conflated things in that bug12:41
KamionI'm talking about Yuval's report of corrupted text in the second stage12:42
Kamionwhich is really a different bug and probably shouldn't be part of #123112:42
sivangright. 12:42
sivangI never went on with the hebrew install fearing it would break other thigns, so I never got to see this ;-)12:43
yuvalsorry... he_IL.UTF-8 doesn't change anything?12:43
sivangmoreover, I don't think I could survive a complete hebrew d-i install ;-))12:43
yuvalsivang: Why not?12:44
Kamionyuval: it's corrupted differently; I'm trying to investigate12:44
sivangyuval : ah, it's a long story. I am so used to english on computers by now, it freaks me sometimes people have "enabled" setups. I'm using english to correspond even with my closest freinds, so I don't really need it. Plus if you have ever tried KDE/GNOME with hebrew, it's not the most pleasent experience trying to figure out where everything is put. issue of taste and experience. 12:47
sivangyuval : using a bank's site or anything close does require me to have the suitable fonts for hebrew display on the browser, however all interactions with them are numbers and english password letters - so everything's fine.12:48
Kamionoh, we don't have jfbterm in base, that might explain it ...12:49
sivangyuval : But I sure like to see Ubuntu works well with it, just for the sake of hebrew users.12:49
Kamionmaybe it would be easier to attack the Greek bug first12:50
sivangboy it uses iconv12:50
sivangKamion : there's a related greek one?12:50
KamionI think so, if only I can find it12:53
Kamionmaybe I'm mixing up Debian and Ubuntu bugs12:54
Kamionoh, there it is, #168312:55
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sivangKamion : I can't explain why, but base-config sure attracts me. reading the sources is the _only_ way to get aroud it?01:00
KamionI don't understand; could you rephrase?01:01
sivangKamion : ahhm. sorry. I meant, in general reading the package's srcs would be the best way to understand base-config and it's inner workings?01:03
Kamionthat is the case for software in general01:03
sivangKamion : true, however having a pre background about it can help understanding it. When I do so, I usually come up with new questions, that usually are left unanswered unless I bug someone on IRC ;-)01:04
sivangKamion : "When I do so" = when I read the source01:04
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sivangdo we have a script to automagically set up nvidia? (think i've seen that on the wiki somewhere)01:31
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Kamiondaniels: OK, I'm a substantial way through investigating this locale problem, so I can take the Greek bug back if you like; it is indeed a subtle set of interactions ...01:44
Kamionwe need languagechooser to set up /etc/environment in order for /etc/init.d/console-screen.sh to work in order for UTF-8 to have any chance of being set up correctly in order for ...01:46
sivanghaving hebrew, greek and other  display correctly for ... :)01:47
Kamionow, gums bleeding, this can't be good01:48
Kamionthink I'll go to bed01:48
T-Bonehave a good night01:48
sivangGood night Kamion01:48
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yuvalGood night (01:53 in israel)01:53
=== T-Bone gently pokes lamont, just in case
sivangI think he's still away, he said he had more of a couple of things to do ;)01:55
jdubmdz: so i have some interesting bugs to figure out02:05
jdububuntu, on pia's oldish p2 toshiba satellite is incredibly slow02:06
jdubto install and to run02:06
jdubsid runs at full speed02:06
mdzis DMA disabled?02:06
jdubhowever, running sid with the ubuntu kernel demonstrates the slowness02:06
jdubdoesn't seem to be i/o related02:06
jdubeverything runs slowly02:07
mdzwhat kernel did you use under sid?02:07
mdzI had a similar machine (though k6 rather than p2), and ubuntu performed similarly to debian02:08
jdubshe's currently using a 2.4 kernel; will have to try a different 2.6 when she comes back from cairns02:08
mdzdid you try the -686 kernel?02:08
jdubi think she might have02:09
jdubbut i'll check that too02:09
mdzjdub: you have a powerpc machine handy?02:13
mdz(running ubuntu)02:13
mdzsomeone please try installing libopenhbci-dev on powerpc02:13
jdubhrm, it's totally out of date ;)02:16
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jdub"Disable challenge-response authentication?"03:06
mdzjdub: Kamion03:10
mdzjdub: #158603:10
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danielsKamion: sure, you can have it; seems you figured it out while I was asleep :)04:16
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tsengrc bugs dropping like drunken college chicks04:25
tsengway to go.04:25
sivangjdub : i have had witnessed horroble slowness with ubuntu using kerlen 2.6.8-386 on a dell inspiron 820004:48
sivangjdub : I tried swithicng to 686 kenrel - didn't help either04:49
sivangjdub : this is a 1.8Ghz machine, 7200 rpm 256MB ram04:51
T-Bonepast 5AM here, time to get some sleep. Bye all.05:12
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fabbionemorning guys05:54
fabbionemdz: permission to upload fontconfig for 2122, s/|/, in debian/control ofr laptop-detect06:05
fabbioneor any other devel06:06
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mdzfabbione: yes, that's trivial, no need to ask06:14
fabbioneusual peer-review ;)06:15
fabbionenever lose the good habits :)06:15
fabbionemdz: i have a wacom driver for the submitter to test and some keyboard layout almost pending (waiting Denis Barber to commit)06:16
fabbionethe latter ARE important for us to have06:16
fabbionehey lamont 06:19
=== lamont is going to be very sore tomorrow.
fabbionelamont: uh what happened?06:24
lamontmust. learn. to. fall. better.06:24
mdzfabbione: do you need a ppc login to build a driver for that guy?06:28
fabbionemdz: oh right... he has a ppc06:31
fabbionemdz: no i can build in the chroot06:31
lamontmdz: 2113....  should we add cupsys-driver-gimpprint* to supported?06:34
lamont(works for the user...)06:34
=== lamont thinks actually desktop would be good..
mdzI think it's too late for that06:35
=== lamont has issues with adding the drivers yet again...
lamontcertainly want them for hoary...06:37
=== lamont could probably be talked into adding bfc-s200-hack.ppd to the cupsys package... :-)
fabbioneubuntu-users is way too high traffic now06:41
lamont12MB in the last half of Sept, 7MB in the first 6 days of Oct.  sheesh06:51
sivangmdz : I'm occasionaly stung when I see you respond almost every user with support request. How do you keep up? ;)06:55
=== sivang has long given up on reading it as a whole. trying only to notice relavent parts for him to support/help.
=== fabbione wisper to sivang that mdz is a manager and therefor sit on the chair *almost* doing nothing :P
fabbionesivang: mdz is a bot06:57
fabbionethat's the truth06:57
fabbionewe created an AI living form even able to walk on walls06:57
fabbionelike spideman06:57
sivanghe's so fast also,06:57
fabbionespiderman even ;)06:57
sivangare we going to have to bug system tp accept http://bugzilla.u.c/bug# ?06:59
mdzsivang: it already does06:59
mdzfabbione: :-P06:59
sivangmdz : thanks :)06:59
sivangmdz : are you going to leave fabbione get away with this? :-)07:00
mdzsivang: my revenge is swift and without warning07:00
mdzwhen he least expects it07:00
mdzthe black helicopters will hover overhead...07:01
sivangboy, i'm after a sleepless night, almost dropps and can't stop07:01
sivangfabbione : remeber the drug?07:01
sivangI think I am in it bad....07:01
fabbionesivang: yes i do :-)07:04
fabbionemdz: a patch for 2111 is very very simple07:04
fabbionemdz: the driver code is nice and dandy ;)07:04
mdzwhy do I get the feeling you are not entirely serious?07:04
fabbionemdz: i am serious07:05
fabbioneit's a 3 lines change07:05
fabbioneright now is:07:05
fabbioneuse_bios = TRUE;07:05
fabbioneit will be:07:05
fabbioneif CARD == foo || CARD == bar { use_bios=FALSE07:06
fabbioneand so on07:06
fabbionethe line after will load the override (if any) from XF86Config-407:06
fabbioneas simple as this ;)07:06
fabbionethere are only to ProSavageDDR models defined/known in the driver07:07
fabbionethat makes things easier07:07
mdzI hate NFS07:07
mdzoh I hate it so07:07
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lamontmdz: just repeat after me 'NFS stands for "Not a File System"'07:11
sivangnight everybody - hitting bed after 20hrs of uptime ;-) wish I had some auxilary power source to connect to..07:11
sivangNFS stands for "Not a File System"07:11
=== sivang wishes he had a pesronal human docking station.
mdzI am finally caught up on email07:13
mdzfrom taking sunday off07:13
mdz-users is out of control07:13
lamontmdz: definitely.  No slow s-curve of adoption here...07:13
fabbionei don't think we expected such a boom07:14
fabbionedid we?07:14
lamontfabbione: hoped is the word, I think.07:14
mdzaw, ubuntu-traffic didn't make LWN this week07:15
fabbionewe hoped for a boom... but i don't think we were ready for one of this size.. that's my impression at least07:16
lamontmdz: so do you want a new cupsys upload with the file then, or we defer moving cupsys-driver-gimpprint's move til hoary and downgrade the bug?07:16
mdzlamont: that bug isn't RC anyway, is it?07:17
mdzif it is, that's wrong07:17
=== lamont checks again
plovs_worki want to thank you guys, my gnome-login-bonobo-hang-error was no longer there this morning, thanks!07:17
mdz3 of the remaining 14 bugs are powerpc bugs :-/07:17
mdzdoko: what is the status of tetex-base?07:18
dokomdz: removing the references in the documentation to the removed .html file. should be done in some minutes07:20
jdubfabbione: pong07:48
fabbionejdub: too late :-)07:50
=== lamont prepares to head for bed.
fabbionegood night lamont 07:52
=== lamont wonders if there is anything he can do to help progress on any of the RC bugs
lamontanyrate, sleep until morning..07:55
=== Mithrandir waves
fabbioneis "reject_nondigits" something that debconf uses?08:19
fabbionenever mind08:20
mdzjdub: this new firefox is supremely buggy08:22
Mithrandirmdz: should we consider switching to gcc 3.4 for it?  Works on AMD64. :)08:27
tsengseems to work on x86 now for the most part as well08:28
tsengbesides a pretty major b0rkage with sse208:28
Mithrandirtseng: do you have a p4?08:29
tsengi have a p4 and a p-m08:29
Mithrandircould you try reproducing 1854?08:29
tsengi have no HT08:30
dokomdz (or someone else): somebody wants to review tetex-base (#2066) before upload? chinstrap:~doko/tetex/08:30
tsengand no apt-get lameness on gzip either08:30
Mithrandirtseng: ok. :/08:30
mdzdoko: attach a diff to the bug?08:30
Mithrandirtseng: it doesn't show without HT, it seems.08:30
tsengMithrandir: my friend joe is using an HT p4 w/ no serious problems either08:30
tsengMithrandir: smp 686 kernel08:31
dokomdz: ok, but debdiff doesn't show removed files.08:31
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Mithrandirtseng: hmm, ok.  I find it somewhat strange that I'm the only one able to reproduce it.08:31
tsengah, you can?08:32
Mithrandiryes, it's I who filed it.08:32
fabbionefoo() { echo "" }08:32
fabbionewhat can cause something like that to hang?08:32
Mithrandirand I'm hunting for somebody else who can confirm it, if nothing else to prove I'm not on serious amounts of crack.08:32
fabbionein a debconf environment08:33
tsengthis happens on any apt-get upgrade?08:33
Mithrandirtseng: no :/  ; apt-extracttemplates seems to hang randomly about 10% of the time.08:34
tsengmmmm, random08:34
Mithrandirof course, stracing the problem makes it go away.08:35
tsengis apt-extracttemplayes heavily threaded?08:35
Mithrandirwhich probably means it's some sort of a race issue08:35
MithrandirI don't know, mdz could tell?08:36
fabbioneMithrandir: can you try to call sync between each call to apt-extracttemplates?08:36
tsengwell mdz alluded to nptl there08:36
tsengwe fought some funny bugs with nptl and apps making alot of threads just crapping out08:36
tsengbut it didnt seem to affect distros that ship a hybrid glibc08:37
Mithrandirfabbione: same problem.08:37
Mithrandirtseng: can I list the threads somehow, or do they still show up as separate processes in ps?08:37
tsengnot under nptl08:38
tsengthey look like a single process08:38
fabbioneMithrandir: do you have any idea for the sh script above?08:38
MithrandirI doubt apt-extracttemplates uses many, if any, threads.08:38
tsengbut that doesnt explain much about the non-SMP kernel08:38
Mithrandirfabbione: are you sure you aren't talking to debconf?08:38
tsengthe race idea is valid also08:38
fabbioneMithrandir: it's the config.in for xserver-xfree8608:39
Mithrandirsince it only happens once in about ten times.08:39
fabbioneMithrandir: it loads debconf that's clear08:39
fabbioneMithrandir: it hangs in a function similar to the one i wrote above08:39
fabbioneMithrandir: see https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=35508:39
Mithrandirfabbione: yes, but the foo=$(bar) might try to read from debconf since stdout is redirected.08:40
dokomdz: done08:40
Mithrandirtseng: and I have to kill -9 the gzip processes.08:40
Mithrandirhmm, weird.08:41
Mithrandirif I reproduce the problem, it doesn't seem to go away until I start another process (ls, dmesg, whatever)08:41
Mithrandiroh, it does08:41
Mithrandirit's just slow08:41
=== Mithrandir scratches head.
mdzdoko: debdiff seems to show the removed file OK08:52
mdzdoko: the diff looks fine to me08:53
mdzdoko: will you upload it?09:01
dokomdz: done09:02
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:doko] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 13 RC bugs to go
dokomdz: the libnet-ph-perl upload discussed in email: does the control file section need to be changed to universe/*09:08
mdzdoko: no, it is overridden09:13
dokook, uploading09:13
danielsmdz: now down to 12 RCs?09:22
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 12 RC bugs to go
mdz1080 is getting downgraded as well; it's way too late to mess with fixing bug-buddy09:23
mdzdoko: you forgot to close #2066?09:24
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Kamionjdub: hmm, I guess that message is going to show up for everyone who installed the preview and then upgrades to final09:34
Kamionthat kind of sucks09:35
Kamionum, guys09:35
Kamionmdz: wvdial is being interactive on me during the initial installation09:35
Kamionmdz: can't we stop it doing that? debconfization should be two hours' work for somebody who knows debconf reasonably well09:35
mdzKamion: pitti fixed that yesterday, I thought09:35
mdzmaybe it didn't make the CD build?09:36
Kamionah, maybe it missed my CD09:36
KamionI think I have yesterday's here09:36
mdzKamion: #206909:36
KamionOK, fine09:36
Kamionbut hey, SHINY GREEK TEXT09:37
doko_kamion: should the pmac sound problem be fixed on yesterday's powerpc cd?09:37
mdzKamion: any idea what's going on with #1997?09:38
mdzdoko_: <mdz> doko: you forgot to close #2066?09:38
Kamiondoko_: should think so, yeah09:38
Kamionmdz: absolutely no idea; I'm tempted to ask the submitter to try yet another daily just to be sure09:39
Kamionbut the CD he claims to have really should have all the required code09:39
mdzKamion: it doesn't look like we've confirmed that the module is being loaded09:40
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:doko_] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 11 RC bugs to go
doko_mdz: done :)09:40
mdzmaybe it is in fact being loaded, but something else is wrong09:40
Kamionit's rather hard to tell without a keyboard09:40
mdzI thought ohci-hcd was built in on powerpc for just this reason09:41
Kamionit's not; it really shouldn't need to be09:42
mdzhmm, so there's no keyboard until hotplug runs?  that's rather scary09:42
mdzwhat happens if fsck fails?09:42
Kamiondunno :)09:43
Kamionmdz: fix in #1683 OK by you, in principle? I need to do more testing09:43
Kamionfor Greek it works for me all the way up to a desktop09:43
Kamionincidentally I really must learn Greek, because it is so much prettier09:43
mdzKamion: so the bug is that it wasn't generating the locale?09:44
Kamionit wasn't generating it early enough09:44
Kamionit was being generated in base-config or something, but that's too late; it needs to be there by the time /etc/init.d/console-screen.sh runs09:44
mdzand the fix is to have prebaseconfig generate the locale in the target?09:44
mdzif so, sounds fine09:45
Kamionanyway, I need to shut down, taxi coming soon; back in some hours09:46
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sjoerd_pitti: ping09:59
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seb128hey sjoerd 09:59
sjoerdseb128: morning :)09:59
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pittisjoerd: pong10:10
pittisjoerd: sorry, I was away for half an hour10:11
sjoerdpitti: haha10:11
pittisjoerd: ?10:11
sjoerdpitti: don't apply davidz version of my patch, it's wrong10:11
pittisjoerd: the one for the first hotplug event?10:11
sjoerdpitti: that you say sorry for being away half an hour :)10:11
sjoerdpitti: yes10:11
pittisjoerd: last_seq_number or so10:11
sjoerdpitti: it can kill off hotplug processing of hal, if events come at a bad timing10:13
pittisjoerd: well, since the current version works great, I rather not change anything unless I find a bug10:13
sjoerdpitti: i'll send a mail explainign why, after i finish math homework :)10:13
pittisjoerd: but thanks for letting me know. Did you already talk to David about this?10:13
pittisjoerd: ah, okay. 10:13
sjoerddavid is probably still sleeping anyway10:14
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thomMithrandir: hrm, do you know if firefox-locale-no has a PR1.1 release?11:15
Mithrandirthom: it does, I just haven't made a package yet.11:16
Mithrandirat least pr1.0 release.11:16
thomoh, rock11:18
thomwe might get it locaalised to one language then11:18
thomafaics, french and german hasn't happened yet11:18
MithrandirI can look at fixing it up and dropping the package into experimental tonight11:19
danielsthom: it's so nice11:19
danielsthom: remind me to buy you a beer some day11:20
thomtold ya11:20
danielsthom: except mine is superior to yours11:21
pittijdub, mdz: IMHO we can downgrade #2131, do you agree?11:21
danielsthom: they must've fixed the keyboard layout in a later revision :)11:21
danielsthom: your keyboard LED is white, no?11:22
thomno, orange11:22
danielsahr, mine's orange too11:22
danielsI thought yours was white for some reason11:23
danielsstrikes me as kind of odd to put an orange LED there11:23
danielswhen white provides more light and IMO looks better11:23
danielsho hum11:23
danielsdinner time11:24
sabdflKamion: fun and games with openssh-server this morning11:28
sabdflKamion: i installed openssh-server a month ago and never touched the config11:30
sabdflthis morning'supdate is asking me about passwords being disabled and challenge response...11:30
sabdflseems like that quesiton assumes the default is passwordauth yes, so if your config is "no" then it assumes you must have edited it11:30
sabdflbut i think your default is passwordauth no11:31
sabdflso this question is getting asked11:31
sabdflcan we fix that please?11:31
sabdflseb128: morning11:38
sabdflSetting up desktop-file-utils (0.9-0ubuntu1) ...11:38
sabdflFile '/usr/share/applications/gnumeric.desktop' contains invalid MIME type 'comma-separated-values' that is missing a slash11:38
seb128hello sabdfl 11:38
seb128sabdfl: yeah, the new desktop-file-utils reports problems instead of just ignoring the files11:38
sabdflseb128: cool, lint!11:38
sabdflor... lint-free!11:39
sabdflnice that there was only one glitch when that got turned on. neat work, thank you11:39
seb128sabdfl: so gnumeric.desktop has a problem, I put that on my todo list for today :)11:39
thomgreat, now there are people filing dups upstream of the firefox crasher11:44
thomthey're never gonna fix it in a week :/11:44
seb128thom: you're going to fix it, aren't you ? :)11:45
thomi stared at it till my eyes blead, and pitti's dug into it too11:46
danielseh? surely the mime type for csv would be something like text/csv or text/comma-separated-values11:49
danielsmdz: dbus-monitor seems to be completely non-functional in some cases. amircornot?11:51
danielsor ratemybugseverity, whichever you like11:51
danielswow, IE really is terrible.11:54
danielskonq was cooler about three years ago11:54
thomget netbooting, kid11:54
danielsthom: er11:55
danielsthom: so we're on a 4GB plan, right.  but Dad didn't see fit to tell me that he forgot to ask for unlimited and that we were on 4GB until I'd sucked 2.3GB in the first 24-48h.11:55
=== Kinnison [~dsilvers@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kinnisonpitti: ping11:56
danielsthom: and that was about a month ago, and we haven't rolled over to a new month yet.11:56
danielsthom: so I'll download it at uni tomorrow.11:56
danielshence the note on StaffCalendar11:56
thomoh man. i saw gpl'd flash impementation on ubuntu-devel and nearly died11:59
danielspitti: hal is being really weird on Kinni's system11:59
danielspitti: the first word that comes to mind when describing his system starts with 'b' and ends in 'ong'11:59
pittiKinnison, daniels: pong12:01
pittiback from lunch12:01
Kinnisonpitti: hal is being very odd at me12:01
pittiKinnison: some details?12:01
Kinnisonpitti: Well; on first boot; if I plug a usb device in; hal knows nothing about it12:01
danielspitti: if you have binaries or sources around for -1ubuntu4, that may help isolate Kinni's problem12:01
Kinnisonpitti: but restarting it seems to help12:01
=== pitti looks
pittidaniels, Kinnison: I can reconstruct ubuntu4, I just need to remove four patches12:02
pittiKinnison: did it work with ubuntu4?12:02
pittiKinnison: most of the patches fix only segfaults12:03
Kinnisonpitti: I don't remember12:04
pittiKinnison: you can try removing the patch fix_first_hotplug.patch12:04
pittiKinnison: Shall I build you a package or do you want to build it yourself?12:04
Kinnisonpitti: As I said; it only manifests itself when I first boot12:04
Kinnisonpitti: so if I restart hal; it'll most likely work12:04
sjoerdKinnison: if you unplug your usb device, restart hal, plug it in again12:04
pittiKinnison: exactly, the mentioned patch fixes sort of a race condition12:04
sjoerdKinnison: what happens then12:04
pittiKinnison: also, does the second plug work? We had problems only with the first plug in after hal start12:06
=== Kinnison would have to reboot to answer about a second plugin before a hal restart :-(
sjoerdpitti: the race is still there, it's just less likely :(12:07
Kinnisonsjoerd: I'll try the unplug/restart/plug now12:07
pittiKinnison: you shouldn't need to reboot12:07
pittiKinnison: /etc/init.d/dbus-1 restart should do12:07
sjoerdpitti: only restarting hal should be enough (then your gvm isn't dead)12:07
pittisjoerd: no, g-v-m was recently fixed to reconnect :-)12:08
KinnisonRight; so if I unplug/restart/plug I get:12:08
sjoerdpitti: ooooh... patch patch patch :)12:08
Kinnisong-v-m notices and mounts12:08
Kinnisonhal-device-manager doesn't notice12:08
pittiwhat? that's odd, never seen this12:08
danielsjesus, how hard is it to do transparent png?12:09
pittithere is no device and volume in hal-device-manager?12:09
Kinnisonpitti: indeed; but if I restart hal-device-manager it shows up12:09
=== Kinnison tries a restart of the entire dbus subsystem
plovs_workpitti, just to let you know, my camera now automatically opens gtkam and I get my photo's, *all* my  devices are working now! Thank!12:10
sjoerdh-d-m is easily confused if hal restarts12:10
pittiKinnison: well, you must restart device manager anyway12:10
=== fabbione looks at https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1117#c28 first lines and enjoyes :))))
pittiKinnison: for me it crashes if hal is stopped12:10
Kinnisonpitti: so; unplug/dbus-restart/plug works okay12:11
pittiKinnison: this is indeed the "first hotplug gamble" bug12:11
pittiKinnison: neither David, nor Sjoerd, nor me found a clean solution for this12:12
thomfabbione: dude, soon your head will be so big you won't fit through doors :-)12:12
pittiKinnison: it usually works from the second plug on, but the first one is still a problem sometimes12:12
sjoerdpitti: no there is a ``clean'' solution, but it requires kernel support and isn't mainline yet.....12:12
pittithom: and he will soon get X-shaped legs :-)12:12
=== Kinnison will put up with the irritation then; sorry to bother you
pittiKinnison: no problem, but it is good to know that there isn't yet another bug12:13
pittisjoerd: what will change?12:13
sjoerdKinnison: what happens if you start hal manually after the first boot12:13
sjoerdpitti: the hotplug seqnum will be published in /sys12:14
danielsfabbione: wow, bong12:14
pittisjoerd: ah, sounds nice12:14
sjoerdpitti: so it's initialised correctly12:14
danielsfabbione: should've CCed me on that bug12:14
danielsfabbione: what was the problem?12:14
pittisjoerd: was that the reason for the uniniialized random sequence number?12:14
=== sjoerd thinks it's a hack and it should work in no matter what order events come in
pittisjoerd: so if the kernel publishes the sequence number, hal can just sort them?12:15
Kinnisonsjoerd: how do you mean?12:15
fabbionedaniels: you botched the backport of the driver12:15
danielsfabbione: yeah ... how?12:15
sjoerdKinnison: put a exit 0 at the start of the hal init script, reboot, start hald --daemon=no --verbose=yes12:15
danielsfabbione: i'd be interested in the interdiff12:15
sjoerdKinnison: see what happens then, should be interesting12:16
pittisjoerd: I think the whole concept of partition detection in hal is somewhat flawed12:16
pittisjoerd: why the kernel can't just look at the devices exported by the kernel?12:16
fabbionedaniels: you added only one .h file out of several files required. and forgot to modify the Imakefile to reflect the changes..12:16
pittisjoerd: why do partition detection again?12:16
Kinnisonsjoerd: I'll try to remember that for my next reboot12:16
fabbionethom: ahahah12:16
danielsfabbione: weird, I could swear I did that12:16
danielsfabbione: although if I just forgot to redo the patch in DBS, I'll kick myself12:16
sjoerdpitti: hmmm, partition detection in hal isn't really a problem12:16
pittisjoerd: it was12:17
danielsfabbione: oh well.  next time something like that comes up, please CC me.12:17
fabbionedaniels: well.. one way or the other.. stuff was missing12:17
danielsfabbione: yeah12:17
sjoerdpitti: yeah, because it did it differently from the kernel12:17
pittisjoerd: and I heard from David (or some other guy) that it is still hackish12:17
sjoerdpitti: hal's logic behind it is weird.. the volume_id stuff is nice12:17
=== Kinnison [~dsilvers@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel []
sjoerdpitti: but as you know by now, hal's concept is great, it's code however....12:18
pittisjoerd: all these segfaults I fixed recently showed that hal does not care a s**t about checking externally acquired values ...12:19
pittisjoerd: so I expect more segfaults in the future :-(12:19
pittisjoerd: but right, the concept is nice12:20
pittisjoerd: maybe David can be convinced to rewrite the stuff in python :-)12:20
sjoerdpitti: i don't think that helps12:20
sjoerdpitti: you can write shitty code in any language12:20
pittisjoerd: yes, but you cannot produce segfaults so easily12:20
sjoerdsome parts of the design are flawed to begin with12:20
sjoerdif the freebsd guys want to port hal they basically need to rewrite it :(12:21
=== fabbione wants a X-Men t-shirt
pittisjoerd: so if they do, maybe they design it better12:21
pittisjoerd: the problem is that I personally only need a fraction of hal's features12:22
pittisjoerd: we only need it for detecting removable media, but hal does a thousand other things12:22
sjoerdwell need.. you only currently use those 12:23
pittisjoerd: OTOH, if we had devised our own hotplug agent, we would not have such nice features as gphoto camera autohandling12:23
fabbionedaniels: i also have a pending patch for 211112:24
fabbionedaniels: want to review?12:24
sjoerdpitti: hal's concept for a hw database of your system is great. but nobody is going to use it if the info they isn't at least mostly  there12:24
pittibut anyway, on many systems it runs quite nicely now12:24
sjoerdpitti: so currently hal is publishing a lot of info, which basically nobody uses that12:25
pittisjoerd: right. Network devices are a field that can still be exploited12:25
sjoerdnot only that, video device detection is in current cvs which could be used by some apps12:25
pittisjoerd: in Hoary, we also want proper device labels instead of sdasomething12:25
fabbionedaniels: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/12:26
pittisjoerd: hal's ID detection/assignment is probably good for this12:26
sjoerdpitti: in sarge+1 i want al the hotplugging mounting stuff to work out of the box :)12:26
pittisjoerd: great!12:26
fabbionedaniels: 036 for the wacom, 991 for the savage12:26
sjoerdpitti: and that includes nice mount points12:26
pittisjoerd: it would be nice if Ubuntu and Debian used the same system12:26
danielsfabbione: sure, I'll review it in a sec12:26
fabbione  307346 total12:27
pittisjoerd: my idea was to have g-v-m maintain a database volume id -> device name and use this as mountpoint and label12:27
fabbionewe are close to 310000 lines of patches for X12:27
pittisjoerd: not device name, device label12:27
=== fabbione hits his head on a wall
sjoerdpitti: i'm currently figuring out how svn-buildpackage works, to put debians hal and gvm under version control12:27
pittisjoerd: pmount already supports device labels, BTW12:27
danielsfabbione: uh12:27
fabbioneit will take AGES to review them for X.org12:27
danielsfabbione: don't really like 91112:28
pittisjoerd: BTW, would you consider using pmount in Debian? Instead of fstab-update?12:28
fabbionedaniels: what do you think is wrong?12:28
sjoerdpitti: ofcourse, i'm telling everybody that i need to really look at it sometime :)12:28
danielsfabbione: I would prefer that you used the first block that you commented out to do the detection12:28
fabbionedaniels: i moved it after the chipset probe12:28
danielsso, set the default according to which chipset it is12:28
pittisjoerd: well, I would maintain it for both Ubuntu and Debian12:28
sjoerdpitti: not changing fstab with al it's problems is a big plus 12:28
danielsfabbione: oh, there's a chipset probe in between there. bong.12:28
pittisjoerd: but it makes no sense to put it in Debian if nothing uses it12:28
fabbionedaniels: i need to have the pciId stuff12:28
fabbionedaniels: otherwise it's the same12:28
danielsfabbione: ok, I'm happy with that12:29
pittisjoerd: the other big plus is hal-running-as-user12:29
fabbionedaniels: yes, but i still want a user test12:29
fabbionedaniels: do you have a normal savage to test on?12:29
danielsfabbione: could you please give me an interdiff between the original #036 and the new one?12:29
sjoerdpitti: i don't really find hal running as user very usefull currently, but my view is somewhat different12:29
danielsfabbione: maybe, but it's still packed away; I can test later on tonight12:29
fabbionedaniels: nope.. i fried away the old 03612:29
sjoerdpitti: although i've got the design in my head to make hal run mostly as user, while still doing everything12:30
fabbionedaniels: the old 036 was adding xf86wacom.h and that's it12:30
pittisjoerd: what's wrong with hal in Ubuntu? It works fine12:30
fabbionedaniels: there was nothing more than that12:30
sjoerdpitti: don't know if i've got the time to code it12:30
pittisjoerd: the only real reason to run hal as root were the callout scripts12:30
pittisjoerd: like fstab-update12:30
sjoerdpitti: i know, for the stuff ubuntu uses it it's great12:30
pittisjoerd: but we want to keep hal policy free, so we do not want that anyway12:31
sjoerdpitti: don't forget filesystem label reading12:31
pittisjoerd: hal can read plugdev devices12:31
sjoerdpitti: yes, but not the ones on my harddisk12:31
pittisjoerd: just not fixed disk partitions, but we do not want hal to be able to mess them up12:31
pittisjoerd: you can put hal into 'disk', but that is equivalent to root12:31
pittisjoerd: actually we need a read-only 'disk' group12:32
sjoerdpitti: yes, that's why i say that i find running hal as user useless :)12:32
pittisjoerd: in Hoary we will probably solve that with mandatory access control12:32
danielsfabbione: sorry, but the only S3 cards I have are early Trios, and a Virge12:32
sjoerdpitti: when using gnome-vfs with hal it's really nice to get your filesystem labels read12:32
sjoerdpitti: so my os X partitions shows ``OS X volume'' instead of idedisk1 ;)12:32
pittisjoerd: if I look at the many segfaults and stack corruptions of hal, I won't ever allow hal to run as root12:33
danielswhat I do have here is Cirrus, Tseng, i740, r200, Voodoo (probably Voodoo2?), GeForce2, soon a Number9 card, and a G40012:33
danielsand the i855 in here12:33
sjoerdpitti: the design in my head has only a bare minimum of hal code running as root and the others as user12:33
pittisjoerd: as I said, in a MAC system we could allow read-only access to disks12:33
pittisjoerd: this sounds better12:33
rossooh, my ipod's volume is labelled "ross' ipod"12:33
pittisjoerd: so you have two hald processes then?12:33
=== ross labels partitions
sjoerdpitti: yes, split one off before dropping prives12:34
pittiross: pmount /dev/sda2 "ross' ipod" :-)12:34
sjoerdpitti: with communition though a pipeline.. to do request like ``read this devices label''12:34
rosspitti: sweet12:34
rosse2label works on mounted filesystems, right?12:35
pittiross: pmount support is ready, we just need g-v-m support for this12:35
pittiross: I don't know12:35
sjoerdpitti: do you want to do it in gvm or some other layer ?12:36
sjoerdfor debian i think another layer is nicer, so k-v-m could use it too12:37
pittisjoerd: actually I would have liked to do all this magic in a DE agnostic layer12:37
pittisjoerd: so I could even benefit from it in fvwm or the command line12:37
pittisjoerd: but in Ubuntu, I think g-v-m is the right place12:37
rosspitti: hal needs to monitor the filesystems for label changes ;)12:38
pittisjoerd: the database can be DE agnostic, just the invocation must be rewritten for KDE etc.12:38
pittiross: good catch, I will ask upstream about that12:38
sjoerdpitti: you know that rml plans to changes g-v-m's design completely12:38
pittiross: OTOH, it's difficult to detect12:38
sjoerdross: that would mean polling for now12:38
sjoerdwhen/if the kernel gets the extra event stuff via netlink it should be easy though12:39
sjoerdthatis if the kernel itself knows the volume has changed12:39
pittisjoerd: oh, then it might be worth discussing that with him12:39
pittisjoerd: if g-v-m supported device labeling upstream, this would be nice12:39
rossyeah, i can see it being a pita12:40
pittiross: I think it would be enough to read the label on plugin12:40
pittiross: (which is done anyway)12:40
sjoerdpitti: let's see if i can find the mail12:40
pittiross: so a unplug/replug would suffice12:40
sjoerdpitti: Message-Id: <1095697479.3666.16.camel@betsy.boston.ximian.com>12:41
sjoerdpitti: on gnome's utopia-list12:42
pittisjoerd: thanks, I will look at it12:42
pittisjoerd: damn, the mail archives don't recognize the Message-Id as search term12:44
rosspitti: unplug/replug doesn't work on / :)12:46
pittiross: it's tricky :-)12:46
pittiross: well, unplug certainly works :-)12:46
pittisjoerd: any idea how I can search for a message id?12:48
sjoerdhmmm no ;)12:49
sjoerdDate: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:24:39 -040012:49
sjoerdshould be easier if it's not in your mailbox :)12:49
pittisjoerd: thx12:50
sjoerdpitti: i'm planning to create an alioth project, to do hal and g-v-m's maintaince under version control and probably an utopia discussion list12:51
sjoerdpitti: do you feel like eventually discussing these ideas on a list there ?12:52
pittisjoerd: of course12:52
pittisjoerd: just read the mail, in fact I already saw it in my mbox12:52
pittisjoerd: I like the notification area plan, we urgently need this anyway12:52
pittisjoerd: a small icon in the panel which allows to unmount devices12:52
sjoerda sort of eject icon or something..12:53
danielsfabbione: sorry, little sister was demanding a story12:53
pittisjoerd: right12:55
pittisjoerd: https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98012:55
rosshm, why doesn't my ipod disk appear as a removable device in hal?12:56
pittiross: hmm, it should12:57
pittiross: works fine for carlos and other guys12:57
rosspitti: well, i can't see a "removable" key in the hal device manager12:57
pittiross: oh that. Just ignore it.12:58
pittiross: this key has never worked for me correctly12:58
pittiross: but is it automatically mounted and such?12:58
=== pitti is relieved
rosspitta: but i can't unplug it without manually ejecting in a terminal12:58
pittiross: this thing again...12:58
pittiross: what happens with unmount in the context menu?12:59
sjoerdpitti: i don't know how exacly ubuntu handles drives12:59
sjoerdpitti: their not on the desktop are they ?12:59
rosspitta: it unmounts, but the ipod wants to be ejected12:59
pittisjoerd: we reenabled the desktop icons shortly before the preview12:59
pittisjoerd: since we needed an easier way to unmount than the "Disks" window12:59
rossah the ipod device itself is removable12:59
pittiross: oh yes, the ipod still thinks it's connected. Same problem as with Carlos01:00
pittiross: however, it it safe to unplug it01:00
pittiross: you can also unload the spb2 module01:00
rosssilly me was looking at the partition node01:00
rosspitti: really nautilus needs unmount and eject entries01:00
pittiross: right. Would that be easy to implement, I would have done it long ago01:01
ross(in the device context menu)01:01
pittiross: the problem is that this would involve a fair amount of new code01:01
pittiross: actually there is only one option and a low level determines whether to unmount or eject01:01
rossi was hoping the gnome-vfs+hal code would make it easy01:01
pittiross: the problem is not the backend stuff, but the user interface01:02
pittiross: actually we should use eject for all removable media; it works fine for usb sticks01:03
pittiross: so maybe it is just a matter of calling eject unconditionally01:03
rossi'm tempted to write a nautilus-python plugin which looks up the mount point in hal and adds an eject entry01:03
pittiross: if we can convince Matt to allow the "always eject" change in gnome-vfs, we would be done with it01:03
pittiross: I will prepare an updated package and have it reviewed by seb128, mdz and you. What about this?01:04
sjoerdpitti: the big problem with device eject/umount stuff it to get the user to actually do it...01:05
sjoerdpitti: most people are used to just pulling usb sticks out01:05
pittisjoerd: well, hal will lazily unmount removed devices, that's not the problem01:06
sjoerdpitti: yeah i know01:06
rosspitti: you mean call eject on unmount?01:06
pittisjoerd: the real problem with this approach is https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195901:06
pittiross: yes01:06
pittiross: this works even better than just unmounting with my usb stick01:06
pittiross: the device is actually shut down, the LED goes off01:06
sjoerdpitti: autch01:07
pittisjoerd: yes, I told everybody proudly that you can just rip off devices in Ubuntu, and then this report came01:07
sjoerdpitti: but i mean the problem is getting people to understand that umount manually first is really the right way01:07
sjoerdapple stuff does that nicely by putting a warning on the device01:08
pittisjoerd: see ross' problem01:08
pittiross: can you please file a bug report about this? Then I have a place to send a patch to01:09
pittiross: I have a minimal patch ready (just changes a FALSE to TRUE)01:15
rosspitti: what component? nautilus?01:18
pittiross: gnome-vfs201:18
pittiross: just assign it straight to me (martin.pitt@canonical.com)01:19
rosspitti: #213401:20
pittiross: thanks!01:20
danielsfabbione: dude01:29
danielsfabbione: look in the patches in people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/xorg/01:29
danielsfabbione: i've already done the X11R6 migration :)01:29
danielsthere are a few patches in there related to it01:29
fabbionedaniels: i know that.01:32
danielsfabbione: ah, ok01:33
danielsfabbione: just making sure :) you have to change the man dir and stuff, iirc01:33
fabbionedaniels: yup...01:34
fabbioneStart killing X11R6.01:34
fabbione^^ --->> start <<---01:35
danielsyeah :)(01:35
danielsjust making sure01:35
fabbionedaniels: i need to play around to understand more stuff01:42
fabbionedaniels: and see how things interact with each other01:42
fabbionedaniels: it's not only question of grabbing a patch here and one there01:42
danielsfabbione: yeah, fair enough01:46
danielsfabbione: if you ever need a hand, give me a yell, because I got it pretty much all worked out01:46
danielstook a while01:46
fabbionedaniels: ain't my fault if you slow :P01:47
fabbionedaniels: but i have your patches.01:47
fabbionei want to use them as last resource if i don't get a clue01:47
danielsfabbione: heh heh, I've already done it, buddy; where are your packages? :P01:49
thomoh man. fedora core 3 has gtk filechooser patches for firefox01:49
thomthey're so sexy01:50
fabbionedaniels: where are yours? do they work? do they actually install?01:50
fabbionedaniels: no.. sorry.. do they actually exists?01:50
pittiross: new package is available, see bug 01:50
fabbionethom: argh... include them :-)01:50
pittiross: I would greatly appreciate some testing :-)01:51
thomtempting, but i might get killed01:51
fabbionethom: where is that SECURITY updated to the gtk filechooser in firefox?01:51
fabbionethom: you forgot to add it last upload!01:52
rosspitti: sure01:52
thomwhat the heck is tr_TR ?01:55
pittithom: Turkish?01:55
thomyeah, i guess so01:56
danielsfabbione: haha01:56
danielsfabbione: they're on my desktop (well, my portable hard drive)01:56
danielsfabbione: they're not *entirely* complete, but they work fine with just fd.o xlibs + xorg01:57
danielsthey were running on mdz's laptop for a while01:57
danielsfabbione: i'll go somewhere where I can upload all the source packages (probably uni) tomorrow and throw them up on fooishbar01:57
danielsfabbione: they're not entirely complete in terms of separating the .orig.tar.gz and stuff and retargeting to warty, but they're a very good base imo01:57
danielsfabbione: remember how mdz kept stalking around looking for me until I unbroke his laptop at Oxford? :)01:58
fabbionedaniels: are they printed on paper or something that they lay on your desktop? ;)01:58
fabbionedaniels: no because i was too busy fixing other stuff breaking on xfree8601:58
danielsfabbione: heh heh. they're on my portable hard drive, which is connected to my desktop right now.01:59
=== seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-111-1-27-191.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsfabbione: oh, fair enough01:59
danielsfabbione: but stuff like xresprobe needs to be probed01:59
fabbionedaniels: pkgnum is going to be ... hmmm.. high :-)02:00
fabbionedaniels: i wonder if elmo will hunt me down02:00
danielsfabbione: yeah, last I saw it was up to about 52 source packages02:02
danielsi think02:02
fabbionedaniels: yes.. that's YOUR split...02:04
fabbionedaniels: mine start with 1 source -> 171 packages -> 171 source packages -> N binary packages02:04
fabbionebut 171 is a virtual number02:04
danielsi think elmo just booked a flight to Copenhagen02:04
Mithrandirfabbione: don't scare us that much.02:04
fabbionesince it needs to be stripped of all the crap02:05
fabbioneMithrandir: i am not kidding02:05
fabbionei am going to reduce X.org in small little tiny packages02:05
fabbionea lot of them02:05
Mithrandirone package per file :)02:05
fabbionedaniels: for ex: xorg/xc/libs/zlib <- we can kill this one02:05
fabbionedaniels: there are plenty like that one02:06
fabbioneMithrandir: almost ;)02:06
danielsfabbione: yeah02:07
danielsfabbione: we can kill a fair few things in programs as well02:07
danielsnot to mention a lot of ancient libs02:08
fabbionedaniels: exactly02:08
danielstell me you're not building a pex5 source package :P02:08
fabbionedaniels: check my commits02:08
fabbionedaniels: right now i am only building one package02:08
fabbionedaniels: so i mean.. it's not like i am going to build much atm02:08
danielsfabbione: yeah, I'm watching your commits roll in to debian-x02:09
danielsit's been a long time since I've checked out any part of the XSF SVN repo02:10
fabbionedaniels: as soon as warty is out i will put up .orig.tar.gz02:10
danielsfabbione: i think we should co-ordinate a little more on this02:10
fabbioneright now i am working on it only in my (almost inexistent) spare time02:10
danielsfabbione: because we've got two pretty diverse sets of packages here, so putting out an .orig.tar.gz might be a little hasty ... they tend to stick around02:11
fabbionedaniels: it's not like they can do anything with it02:11
fabbionedaniels: it doesn't build any binary02:11
fabbionedaniels: it's the *-source-* stuff02:11
fabbionedaniels: that is nothing more than grabbing X11R6 from freedesktop :-)02:12
danielsmmm, if you want to02:12
danielsif you're going to do that, if you at least grab the xorg-6.8.1.tar.gz (or whatever kem renamed that to -- probably X11R6.8.1-src.tar.gz) from ~xorg/X11R6.8.1/src-single/02:12
fabbionei did already02:13
fabbionethat's the one i am using02:13
fabbionebut it still needs to be sanitized02:14
fabbionethere are the non-free code that we want to get rid of02:14
danielsah, rad02:14
danielsyeah, mainly fonts02:14
danielsthe autoconfig stuff is fine, remember02:15
danielsit's basically stuff which is non-dfsg-free -- there's no XFree86 1.1 code02:15
fabbioneread debian-x :-)02:15
rosspitti: so far so good with new gnome-vfs. it ejected the ipod as expected02:15
fabbionedaniels: -r1902:15
pittiross: nice to hear, thanks! :-) Can I quote you on a bug followup02:15
fabbionedaniels: and thread02:15
pittiross: ?02:15
tsengross: hmm, does the ipod realize its been unmounted also?02:16
rosstseng: yes, that what was good02:16
tsenghm neat02:16
danielsfabbione: oh right, I just saw Roland waffling about some crap about Xprint and sort of tuned out02:16
rosspitti: would be nice if in the end nautilus knew if the device was ejectable, like it does with cdroms02:16
fabbionedaniels: i am off for a little while02:17
fabbionedaniels: try to test the savage driver if you can02:17
danielsfabbione: take cure dude :)02:17
fabbionedaniels: kinda asap :-)02:17
danielsfabbione: i have no savages, sorry, but I'll try to find someone with one02:17
danielsfabbione: heh yeha02:17
danielsalso, 'yeah'02:17
pittiross: Well, actually an iPod cannot be "ejected"; it will not be spat out of the firewire plug AFAIK :-)02:18
fabbionedaniels: you said you have one in a box02:18
fabbionedaniels: find it and plug it02:18
pittiross: so I think the current term "unmounting" is better02:18
fabbioneor ask on #ubuntu or something02:18
azeemhow about 'Remove device'?02:18
azeem'unmounting' sounds quite techy02:18
danielsfabbione: i said I probably did, then I realised it was only Virge and old Trios02:18
pittiazeem: remove from your desk?02:18
rosspitti: hm. problem is that ipods are "removable", whereas an external jazz drive is actually removable. in HAL they'll both appear as removable02:19
pittiross: you mean the ZIP and cd-roms are ejectable?02:19
rosscd-roms are from nautilus, zip should be02:19
pittiross: right, this probably requires HAL support02:19
=== sjoerd notes that os X calls both umount en eject, eject
tsengmy old usb zip drive actually rockets disks at me ocassionally02:19
tsengits humorous.02:19
pittitseng: but ZIP drives can actually be ejected02:20
pittibut there's nothing to eject on an iPod (at least I would not want it to :-) )02:20
tsengitunes does call it "ejecting" the ipod however02:20
pittihmm. The German translation is far better02:20
azeemok, so what about 'disconnect'?02:21
pittisounds much better02:21
=== Capri [~makolb@mnch-d9ba49df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-78.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sivang [~pooh@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittijdub: can you please take a look at #2135 (and approve, if appropriate)?02:56
thomjdub: the firefox crasher was reported upstream on the 3rd of august :(02:57
jdubthom: good lord03:09
jdubpitti: approved (and commented)03:10
thomjdub: we also have basically no translations available for 1.003:10
pittijdub: thanks, uploaded03:13
jdubthom: do you have a landline?03:18
thomjdub: wait one03:19
jdub(thom is stringing up some tin cans and string to the overhead cables AS WE SPEAK)03:20
thompretty much03:20
thomit does mean finding the phone :-)03:20
tsengthe first trans-pacific tin can conversation03:20
jdubtseng: the ISS is just one big tin can, dude ;)03:21
=== stratus [~stratus@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rossyo yo jdub03:38
tsenghey ross, ive been thinking about a stupid "feature" on s-juicer if youd entertain03:39
tsengseems to be an unpopular idea, but i encode both flac + mp3 ... i have a home theater box and an ipod. totem wants to rip the cd twice instead of encode the tracks twice03:41
tsengjdub: someone is working on packaging beagle/dashboard now :)03:41
rosstseng: i doubt i'll implement multiple encoding formats03:41
rossyou could hack it with a weird profile in sj-profiles-branch03:42
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jdubtseng: rock :)03:47
=== thom happydances
jdubtseng: so we really should get your mono stuff into universe03:47
jdubpants off ross03:47
tsenghm, for warty?03:47
jdubross: 0.9 is in :-)03:47
jdubtseng: sure03:47
tsenghm ok03:48
jdubtseng: how much of it is different to sid versions now?03:48
tsengmonodevelop only03:48
rossjdub: so i heard, pants off!03:48
tsengwhich i need to poke here again, missing deps03:48
rossjdub: did you get my app install mail?03:48
jdubross: been travelling for a couple of days, so will get to it soon ;)03:48
tsengoh and tomboy still isnt in sid afaik03:48
rossjdub: ok. good time?03:48
jdubross: lovely. did an ubuntu presentation in daniels's home town.03:49
rossjdub: sweet.  i just plugged ubuntu to a techie doing due diligence here03:49
jdubross: put up embarrassing pictures of him, pipka and bob2 up on the big screen etc. ;)03:49
danielsjdub: sorry about the state of the house, btw03:49
tsengjdub: there is a very minor bug also in my monodevelop (upstream as well) ... missing some file for nermle template, warning issued on New03:49
danielsjdub: we were all pretty much out for everything but dinner for the last week; particularly me, as I'd get home, and need to clear a day's worth of work after that03:50
jdubdaniels: i didn't find any WMD, so i'm not too fussed.03:50
tsengbut I think in universe that isnt a real blocker03:50
danielsjdub: heh03:50
danielsjdub: or catch cooties03:50
jdubdaniels: in communist ivanhoe, the cooties catch you.03:50
danielsjdub: ahr, I am the cootie monster03:50
rossshould totem in ubuntu be able to play the fluendo stream?03:50
tsengseb just posted new gst* and totem packages this morning if that helps03:51
rosshm, good point. i'm, using totem-xine atm03:51
tseng deb http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~seb128/gstreamer/  /03:51
tsengthe fluendo guys have been working like mad lately.03:52
jduboh good03:52
=== sjoerd wonders if ubuntu and debian will be able to ship gst-ffmpeg
jdubross: totem+gstreamer in ubuntu should be able to play the fluendo stream now03:55
jdubnow like, "already" not "as of just now"03:55
seb128current version is bugged03:55
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubseb128: oh03:55
seb128I've asked if I should apply the patch to gstreamer and you said it's not a priority so no03:55
=== jdub installs seb's :)
pittiseb128: I tried the new packages; mpeg2 decoding got a slight bit better, but is still unusable; totem crashed after closing it03:55
pittiHi carlos!03:56
carlospitti: my hero!!03:56
pitticarlos: Can I bother you to take a look at #2134?03:56
seb128if we don't have regression I'm all for using the new packages03:56
=== thom stops looking at firefox's download mangler
carloslet me see it03:56
pitticarlos: your iPod should finally unmount fine with this03:56
jdubseb128: i thought i said "because the new releases with BBB's hacking love will be out soon anyway"?03:56
carlospitti: oohh, that one03:56
carlospitti: I answered it already :-P03:56
carlosthat's why you are my hero :-)03:56
pitticarlos: oh, I did not notice. Thanks03:57
seb128jdub: no no, you just said it was not a priority :)03:57
seb128it was like 3 weeks ago03:57
Kamionsabdfl: there's already a bug for that; suffice to say there was a rationale for the behaviour I chose and it wasn't a mistake for Debian (long story, basically the config options were shuffled by upstream and *then* the PasswordAuthentication default was changed by me, which confused things muchly), but it's not appropriate for Ubuntu and I'll be changing it03:57
pitticarlos: I feel honored :-)03:57
rossseb128: totem from that source is hanging03:57
rossseb128: i think its a HAL problem03:58
=== Kamion managed a complete start-to-finish Hebrew install on the train
tsengjdub: btw, is there an env i can set so that dch gets my proper email?03:58
Kamionwith only a little hacking03:58
seb128ross: hum ... totem uses hal ?03:58
Kamionjdub: how scared will you be if I tell you that we need to drag jfbterm into warty?03:58
danielsKamion: ?!?03:59
rossseb128: the bacon stuff will if its around03:59
rossseb128: call yourself a packager? ;)03:59
jdubKamion: first, i will be pensive, and raise my eyebrows.03:59
Kamionthought so03:59
carlospitti: you are doing a good work about removable devices in Ubuntu that are really good for normal users and we will be the first with those features :-P04:00
Kamionneeded for certain languages, I'm afraid04:00
rossseb128: well, i think that is what is happening anywya04:00
Kamionotherwise they won't be able to read the text in base-config at all04:00
jdubKamion: which ones?04:00
pitticarlos: do you happen to have any other USB devices to test it with?04:00
danielsjdub: presumably chinese and japanese04:00
=== seb128 slaps ross
danielsah, also Korean04:00
rossseb128: watch:04:00
ross$ totem04:00
rosslibhal.c 2213 : Error sending msg: Service "org.freedesktop.Hal" does not exist04:00
=== ross slaps seb128 back
danielsross: cool!!04:01
Kamionand possibly a few random stragglers where the Linux console doesn't do their UTF-8 well04:01
carlospitti: yes, let me look for my syster's usb pen04:01
danielsross: is HAL running?04:01
Kamionwe get away without it for Hebrew apparently; haven't tested Farsi yet although we're probably missing most of the d-i translations for that anyway04:01
rossdaniels: it got upgraded so probably not04:01
jdubKamion: this won't matter so much when we're-- yeah -> utf-8 impact?04:01
pitticarlos: beware, now it is ejected; after unmounting, it will stick in your eyes :-)04:01
seb128ross: $ grep -i hal totem-0.99.17/configure.in04:01
Kamionjdub: hmm?04:01
rossseb128: fun.04:02
jdubKamion: when we switch to utf-8 for hoary, what will we use?04:02
Kamionjdub: base-config actually tries to use it even for UTF-8; apparently it does a better job than the console for some languages04:02
seb128ross: isn't it ? :)04:02
Kamionhowever turning on the framebuffer is *probably* enough for most people04:02
carlospitti: it's not mounted automatically...04:02
rossseb128: now i am getting confused04:03
KamionI'll fix up Greek and Hebrew now04:03
pitticarlos: hmm. What does the device manager say?04:03
carlosand dmesg shows me it04:03
pitticarlos: BTW, this can't have anything to do with my gnome-vfs changes04:03
carlosI know 04:03
pitticarlos: does device manager show a volume for it?04:03
carlosI saw the patch04:03
carloswhich one was the command?04:04
rossseb128: aha, maybe its gnome-vfs?04:04
pitticarlos: hal-device-manager04:04
pitticarlos: should also be in the menu04:04
pitticarlos: unless you did not install the package hal-device-manager04:04
carlosseems like it's not installed04:05
seb128ross: the hal supported is turned off in warty04:05
seb128for gnome-vfs04:05
rossross: i bet pitta turned it on for his ipod fixing gnomevfs04:05
seb128ross: oh, that's nautilus-cd-burner 04:05
seb128* Use CD selection widget from nautilus-cd-burner, instead of our copy04:05
seb128for totem04:05
rossah ok04:05
seb128and n-c-b has the hal support on04:05
carlospitti: Could not get device list. Make sure hald is running!04:06
=== blueboy [~blueboy@149.Red-217-126-76.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rossi must restart i guess04:06
carlosseems like hald died04:06
tsenghald is good at that04:06
pitticarlos: so your hal does not run. /etc/init.d/dbus-1 restart04:06
carlosbut It was running becuase the iPod was mounted automatically04:06
=== pitti sighs
carlospitti: it's running04:07
carloshal       3196  0.0  0.7  7616 5644 ?        Ds   15:02   0:02 /usr/sbin/hald --drop-privileges04:07
pitticarlos: just because you restarted it or was it running before?04:07
rosscarlos: i've got one of those! Ds is bad04:08
fabbionedaniels: the savage patch seems to work04:08
danielsfabbione: awesome.  did you find someone to test?04:08
carlospitti: it was running before04:08
rosspitti: me too04:08
pitticarlos: so you just cannot communiate with hal any more? Try lshal04:09
fabbionedaniels: the submitter :-)04:09
danielsfabbione: ah, rad :)04:09
rosspitta: "Service "org.freedesktop.Hal" does not exist"04:09
carlospitti: no, it hangs04:10
danielsross: 'pitti'04:10
danielsross: as in, da fool04:10
rossi'm hungry ;)04:10
carloscarlos@frodo /var/log $ lshal04:10
carloslshal version 0.2.9804:10
carloslibhal.c 696 : org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply raised04:10
carlos"Message did not receive a reply"04:10
carlos*** [DIE]  lshal.c:dump_devices():70 : Couldn't obtain list of devices04:10
pittiwhat the hell...04:10
pittiross,carlos: can you please restart dbus-1 and see whether this is reproducible?04:11
danielshal is totally shot04:11
sjoerdpitti: if hald is in D state your screwed04:11
pittisjoerd: right04:11
pittididn't notice that04:11
carlospitti: after restarting dbus I get:04:11
pitticarlos,ross: so I guess you have to reboot04:11
danielsoh wow, hald in D04:11
carloscarlos@frodo /var/log $ lshal04:11
carloslshal version 0.2.9804:11
carloslibhal.c 696 : org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceDoesNotExist raised04:11
carlos"Service "org.freedesktop.Hal" does not exist"04:11
carlos*** [DIE]  lshal.c:dump_devices():70 : Couldn't obtain list of devices04:11
rosspitti: this is the 3rd time i've got hald in D after upgrading04:11
pittidaniels: if I had a penny for every time... nevermind04:11
danielsross: probably trying to read from a non-existant device04:12
sjoerdthe only times i've seen hald in D state it where hardware issues04:12
carloswow hald does not die04:12
danielsyeah, same04:12
rossooh mine died!04:12
danielscarlos: yeah, it's in D, which means it's waiting on the kernel04:12
danielsross: woo!04:12
rossnow lshal hangs instead04:13
carlosross: :-P04:13
danielsross: if you can get debugging up the hizzle, knowing just what it's doing might be nice04:13
sjoerdross: does dmesg show strange things ?04:13
danielsross: yay! has hald gone back into D?04:13
rossand its back in Ds04:13
=== carlos reboots
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 12 RC bugs to go
danielsross: yeah, that's what I thought04:13
sjoerdross:  ls -l /proc/$(pidof hald)/fd 04:14
rosshm, i blame the ipod04:14
sjoerdross: what device files does it have open 04:14
rosssjoerd: null, null, null and null04:14
pitti@all: this might be because devices are now ejected, which means to power them down04:14
rosssjoerd: some pipes, 2 sockets and the pci id files04:14
pittiso it may take forever to open the device04:14
rossblocking in scsi_wait_req says wchan04:15
rossi'm totally blaming a powered-down but connected ipod04:15
pittiross: try to stick your iPod back in04:15
danielsross: urgh04:15
pittiross: no, that won't help, it will get a new device node04:15
sjoerdhmm why are the pci id's files still open..04:16
=== sjoerd fixes another fd leak in hal
rossgo sjoerd04:17
pittiodd, works for me04:17
sjoerdcould be a ieee1394 bug04:18
pittisjoerd: probably; carlos already told me about some module unloading magic04:19
pittisjoerd: but this should not hang hal04:19
sjoerdpitti: imho the kernel should say, dead device, -EINVAL or something04:19
sjoerdyour process should stay in D so long because you open() or something like that04:20
pittisjoerd: yes, I saw this on an user with a faulty CD rom drive04:20
sjoerdpitti: my own cdrom drive is quite nasty during bootup, causing hald to stay in D for some time (untill the kernel shuts off dma for it)..04:22
=== pitti curses at hal loudly
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiSo I guess we have to revoke the eject patch for now04:23
sjoerdi don't think their is a way to work around this04:23
pitticarlos: Hi! Back?04:23
pittisjoerd: well, open() should have a timeout04:23
carlospitti: hi04:23
pittisjoerd: or even better, should fail immediately04:23
pitticarlos: we just discussed that you are lost. Your computer was destroyed completely, go and buy a new one04:23
pitticarlos: just kidding04:23
carlospitti: :-P04:23
thomjdub: mail away04:24
pitticarlos: we probably have to revoke the patch because the kernel stinks04:24
carlospitti: I was calling to Apple, I'm having problems with my iPod battery04:24
pitticarlos: it hangs forever on opening a non-existing device04:24
carlosbtw, it works with the pen drive04:24
sjoerdpitti: you can open with O_NONBLOCK.. 04:24
pittiInterestingly, this does not crash on USB04:24
=== z0mbix_ [~z0mbix@gate-mort.digitalview.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittisjoerd: does this also apply to open() itself?04:24
pittisjoerd: I thought it only was meaningful to further read() calls04:25
sjoerdfrom the manpage: Neither the  open  nor  any subsequent operations on the file descriptor which is returned will cause the calling process to  wait.04:25
carlospitti: also, If I boot with the iPod connected, it's not mounted :-(04:25
sjoerdbut i think it's non-trivial to patch hal for that 04:25
pitticarlos: https://bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org/show_bug.cgi?id=149904:26
pittisjoerd: are there so many places which open a device?04:26
carloscarlos@frodo ~ $ eject /dev/sda04:26
carlospitti: that's the problem04:26
carloseject hangs04:26
carloswith the iPod04:26
pittiah, THIS is the hanging problem04:26
pittithere was a bug about that recently, but it was closed again04:26
carlospitti: I'm not using latest kernel04:27
carlosneed to execute a dist-upgrade 04:27
carlosso perhaps that's the problem04:27
rosscarlos: that is the bug i had last week04:27
pitticarlos: if you can reproduce the hanging problem, I would like to patch eject with O_NONBLOCK and let you test it04:27
sjoerdpitti: on my friends G5 the daily snapshot cd's give the same error:  04:27
sjoerdchristian: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=213704:27
carlospitti: sure04:27
carlospitti: but could we do it later?, give me the URL and I will work on it tonight, I just started to work today and I have lots of things to do...04:28
sjoerdpitti: more problamatic that hal's logic works synchronous everywhere 04:28
pitticarlos: sure, I just provide a new package and put it on my webserver04:28
carlospitti: perfect04:28
carlosI will reboot now to "fix" the hang04:28
pitticarlos, ross: I reopen the eject bug04:28
carlospitti: perfect04:29
pitticarlos,ross,sjoerd: bad news. eject() already uses O_NONBLOCK04:31
sjoerdpitti: i assume your on the hal@fd.o list 04:32
pittisjoerd: yes04:32
pittisjoerd: just saw your patch04:33
pittisjoerd: will it help to fix these hangings?04:33
sjoerdthat's fast i send it about 10 seconds ago04:33
sjoerdpitti: no, it just plugs an innocent fd leak04:33
tsengi have an ipod to play with if anyone needs more test04:34
pittithrow it away04:34
pittino, please don't04:34
pittithrow hal away04:35
tsengno i use it every day04:35
tsengits nice.04:35
sjoerdif you throw it away, throw it in this direction :)04:35
tsengexcept for not using OGG04:35
tsengwhich is suck.04:35
rosstseng: join the gang and send a complain to apple04:35
pittitseng: isn't there any hacker out there with updated firmware?04:35
tsengi think when it first came out there were some guys that installed ucLinux on it04:35
tsengive never seen any real clean solution04:36
tsengits very proprietary all around04:36
danielsthe interesting thing with decoding Ogg on iPod is that they only ever got it to ~90% realtime04:36
danielswhen the Vorbis guys claim Tremor should be able to do 100%, even in pure integer mode04:37
tsengso whats that make for, a little pause between tracks?04:37
danielsassuming you pre-buffer the entire thing to PCM04:38
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittisjoerd: I cannot find any other open() option for us. Once you do the open(), the process hangs forever without any signal being able to recover it04:38
danielsyou'd need a 10% track length pause just between the tracks, assuming you could manage to decode the entire thing to PCM and store it04:38
danielsnot to mention spinning up the hard drive, access, streaming the file, et al04:38
daniels(decoding to PCM being non-trivial -- you'd need something like ~60MB of solid state for most tracks)04:39
sjoerdpitti: that's not easily fixed then...04:39
pittisjoerd: no, it's a kernel bug.04:40
sjoerdpitti: exactly 04:41
sjoerdpitti: although it would be nice if hald worked somewhat less async04:41
pittisjoerd: indeed.04:42
sjoerduhm somewhat less sync or somewhat more async :) 04:42
pittisjoerd: but regardless of how it works, if a single open() on the wrong device kills it, you are lost anyway04:42
sjoerdpitti: yes that's what i said earlier :)04:42
=== pitti goes to kill the new gnome-vfs2 packages from his unofficial archive
Kamionso; any objections to me changing the default Hebrew locale to he_IL.UTF-8? it works for me.04:44
KamionI think the same might be needed for Arabic (ar_EG.UTF-8) too; checking04:45
seb128jdub, mdz: ok to upload eagle-usb instead of eagle-adsl ? We already have the kernel module from eagle-usb, we should have the user tools in sync, I've forgotten to do this before ...04:47
=== zepo__ [~zepo@host93-167.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
zepo__hi everybody...someone has installed Ubuntu on Acer travelmate laptop,coz i've problem04:53
zepo__or tell me something about, tnx04:54
fabbionezepo__: these questions should go to #ubuntu. please see /topic04:55
zepo__ah ok... i've seen in the ubuntu homepage : http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/laptop/view?searchterm=laptop04:56
zepo__and nobody can help me on #ubuntu04:56
zepo__am i wrong?04:58
thomzepo__: check http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/HardwareSupport04:58
carlospitti: could we add to #2134 a dependency to #1891 ?04:59
pitticarlos: good idea04:59
carlospitti: thanks04:59
tsengmono fans: considering tweaking muine package to use gstreamer rather than xine.. thoughts?05:00
carlostseng: gstreamer for sound works really good05:04
=== carlos does not use muine
tsengthe debian sid pkg defaults to xine atm05:05
Kamionwow, something is really screwed with Arabic05:05
Kamionthe translations for partman are sufficiently broken to make the mount point selector fall over and refuse to allow anything but /05:06
danielsKamion: ... impressive05:06
KamionI don't believe I've ever seen that before ...05:06
Kamiondaniels: hey, you look like a volunteer ... :)05:06
Kamionthere's also something weird with the countrychooser shortlist generation for Arabic, not sure about that yet05:08
danielsKamion: how much arseclownery is required to build a netinst?05:09
Kamionfor warty?05:09
Kamiontheoretically not too much, debian-cd has support, you set INSTALLER_CD=2 or some such; but I've never actually tried it for warty05:09
Kamionpartly 'cos Mark wanted the Only One CD approach05:10
KamionI was vaguely thinking about chucking out a totally unofficial netinst for hoary05:10
fabbioneKamion: netinst ?05:10
fabbionewe have netinst, don't we?05:10
Kamiondaniels: the debian-cd tarball I'm using is at http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/code/05:10
fabbioneor are we talking about 2 different netinst?05:10
Kamionfabbione: no, netinst = CD with installer and base system only05:10
Kamionyou're thinking of netboot05:11
Kamionnetinst is badly misnamed really05:11
danielsoh, netboot, sorry05:11
danielssomething I can install my X40 with :)05:11
fabbioneKamion: ok :-) isn't that the miniiso in netinstall dir on the mirror?05:11
Kamiondaniels: aha! we have netboot, look in install/netboot/ on CD images05:11
fabbionedaniels: we have netboot punk05:11
Kamionor /dists/warty/main/daily-installer-i386/netboot/ I think05:11
danielsKamion: right ... so no buggery required with debian-cd?05:12
Kamionbusinesscard would actually be more useful to produce than netinst; that's a CD with just all the udebs on it, fetches base system etc. from network05:12
danielsKamion: cool05:13
fabbioneKamion: we can expand the mini.iso05:13
Kamionbut we have the netboot mini.iso for most of that kind of use case I guess05:13
Kamionfabbione: nooooooooo05:13
danielsKamion: hm05:13
=== fabbione was joking :-)
Kamionfabbione: upstream totally vetoed that :)05:13
danielsKamion: would it be possible to just netboot the standard cd? :)05:13
Kamiondaniels: 'fraid not, the CD doesn't actually have enough udebs to support netboot; there's a bug about it05:14
danielsKamion: ahr, heh05:15
danielsKamion: ok, I'll try mini.iso, and construct a mirror here05:15
danielsKamion: any tips on constructing a mirror?05:15
danielsKamion: (well, basically gotchas that I'd need to look out for)05:15
=== zepo__ [~zepo@host93-167.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionI basically just do debmirror --section=main/debian-installer05:18
danielsKamion: rad05:18
Kamionmake sure that gives you a Release file05:18
KamionI wish I knew why my powerbook's screen occasionally goes into flickery nightmare mode05:18
danielsKamion: i was kind of hoping to do it from local sources05:19
Kamionit's like it's shuddering a bit under a fifth of a screen from the right05:19
danielsKamion: is apt-move with a bit of poking sufficient?05:19
zepo__may i suggest to consider, if it's possible,clearly,also Acer laptop05:20
Kamiondaniels: you could copy all the udebs from the CD to an archive structure and debmirror the rest05:20
danielszepo__: basically, try it and see if it works; the reason it won't be listed is because no-one has it05:20
danielszepo__: even a failure report is better than unknown, because we then have a far better idea of what to fix05:20
Kamionthere won't be all that much beyond what's on the CD05:20
danielsKamion: cheers05:21
zepo__i tried,i have on my acer05:25
zepo__daniels: sorry, and i 've video problems05:25
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zepo__daniels:if i will resolve i'll post on ubuntu page,but i don't know if i'll do05:26
thomwhy is someone using ndiswrapper for an ipw2200?05:27
thomKamion: 2137 looks strangely familiar05:29
Kamionthom: indeed :)05:35
Kamionguess why it didn't take me long to work out what the problem was ...05:35
Kamion(likely to be)05:35
danielsok, seems apt-move has mostly done the trick05:36
Kamion   * Load firmware from standard locations (me):05:37
Kamion     . drivers/net/wireless/acx/acx100_helper.c05:37
Kamion     . drivers/net/wireless/acx/acx100_usb.c05:37
danielsKamion: btw, $MIRROR in update-cd is still n-n-y05:37
tsengyay for dh_netlibs !!!05:37
tseng+ cdbs05:37
Kamiondaniels: right, we haven't changed the directory in /srv yet05:38
Kamionthom: hm, do you have a minute to coordinate moving that to /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com, or have you not bothered yet for other services?05:38
danielsKamion: fair point05:40
danielsKamion: hm05:41
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danielsKamion: do I get to set a local mirror to download stuff from, or will it have a bash at archive.ubuntu.com?05:41
danielsKamion: (that's a d-i rebuild if no, correct?)05:41
thomKamion: sorry, move what?05:42
Kamionthom: little:/srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com05:42
Kamiondaniels: you'll get to set a local mirror when using netboot05:42
=== zepo__ [~zepo@host93-167.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
thomKamion: most haven't bothered yet05:43
Kamionfair enough, no hurry then05:44
rossthom: amusing bug i've just found in IIS05:45
rossthom: which being an apache guy you'd find amusing05:45
tsengjdub: would you mind double checking tomboy sometime? I fixed it05:46
rossthom: domain names with the final period don't get matched in the virtual hosts.. www.180sw.com/ works fine, www.180sw.com./ fails05:46
thomyeah, seen that one05:47
thomit's... irritatiing05:47
rossfools. our company signature has the dot at the end...05:48
danielsKamion: ahr, crap05:48
danielsKamion: any way to build it without source?05:48
thomross: it does? ugh05:48
danielsKamion: (my /var/cache/apt/archives doesn't extend to sources, sadly)05:48
thomand why on earth are you using IIS?05:49
thomhosted by bluewank?05:49
rossthom: business, so telewest thankyou very much ;)05:49
danielsKamion: forgive the dumb questions05:49
Kamiondaniels: --nosource, if you mean debmirror?05:51
Kamiondaniels: no problem05:52
danielsKamion: debian-cd05:52
danielsKamion: i've apt-moved /var/cache/apt/archives into a pool structure05:52
Kamionuh; do you still need to use debian-cd?05:53
KamionI thought you were going to use netboot now05:54
danielsKamion: oh05:54
danielshow do I generate netboot, if not debian-cd?05:54
KamionI think we're talking at cross-purposes :)05:54
Kamionyou download it from warty?05:54
danielsoh, man05:54
danielsimagine I'm sitting here slapping my forehead.05:54
Kamionthe reason you need the debmirrored archive is because netboot will need to download from it05:54
danielsyeah :005:54
daniels:), even05:54
danielsit was an entertaining sojurn into debian-cd, anyhoo05:56
Kamionheh :)05:57
Kamionan ugly piece of code, that05:57
seb128I just spent 1 hour to understand that wanadoo rejects all the mail with a subject starting by "new ..."05:59
danielsseb128: wtf?05:59
seb128I was trying to send a mail about the new totem/gst packages05:59
seb128daniels: apparently an anti-spam system05:59
carlosseb128: man, you need a real mail account...06:05
seb128I need a real provider :p06:05
=== Kamion has a bugzilla mid-air collision with himself. whoops
thomseb128: rock on06:08
danielshm, the biggest challenge might actually be finding a hub ;)06:11
tsenghmm, pkgconfig is uninstallable?06:13
tsengor am I smoking crack.06:13
thomtseng: works fine for me06:17
tsengthom: good deal06:17
danielsi'm with thom06:17
tsengsays no installation candidate06:18
danielstry putting a warty repo in sources.list :P06:18
tseng deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main restricted universe06:18
thomapt-cache policy pkg-config ?06:19
tsengoh.. sorry06:19
tsengi have depend pkgconfig =/06:19
thomthat'd be why then :-)06:20
tsengya, i r dumb06:20
tsenghacking on the monodevelop pkg some more06:20
tsengi broke some stuff when i converted to cdbs06:22
tsengthe sid package was debhelper06:22
=== thom sobs at cdbs
thomhorrible thing :-)06:24
danielsthom: in my case, cdbs wasn't doing me wrong; it was autotools the whole time06:25
mdzpitti: agreed, 2131 is not RC06:25
seb128jdub, mdz: ok to upload eagle-usb instead of eagle-adsl ? We already have the kernel module from eagle-usb, we should have the user tools in sync, I've forgotten to do this before ...06:25
pittiHi mdz!06:25
mdzsabdfl: already a bug filed about that question06:25
mdzdaniels: dbus-monitor is not critical functionality06:26
danielsmdz: 'kay06:26
mdzseb128: what's the difference between eagle-usb and eagle-adsl?06:26
danielsmdz: so absolutely no changes, even if dbus-monitor is totally dead to the world?06:26
pittimdz: okay, but thom was faster with downgrading it :-)06:26
mdzdaniels: give me a bug #06:26
seb128mdz: the package has been renamed. We have the module from eagle-usb, the old -adsl doesn't work with 2.606:27
danielsmdz: none filed06:27
seb128dunno what has changed exactly in the user tools part06:27
danielsbonza! ubuntu me up, baby06:27
mdz13018: arguments to dbus_connection_send_with_reply_and_block() were incorrect, assertion "(error) == NULL || !dbus_error_is_set ((error))" failed in file dbus-connection.c line 1999.06:29
mdzThis is normally a bug in some application using the D-BUS library.06:29
mdzFailed to set up match "dbus-monitor": 06:29
mdzfree(): invalid pointer 0x40257edc!06:29
mdzdaniels: that?06:29
danielsmdz: ya-huh06:29
mdzseb128: so we need to replace -adsl with -usb?06:29
seb128mdz: yes06:29
danielsKamion: where does 'anna' come from?06:30
Kamionthe name?06:30
danielsKamion: 'user.warn anna[2451] : WARNING **: bad d-i Packages file'06:30
=== azeem bets on Anna Kurnikova
Kamionno, Anna Hess, Joey's sister06:30
danielsKamion: grep turns up nothing in d-i06:30
Kamiondaniels: there's a source package named thus06:31
danielsarh, maybe if I learnt to type06:31
mdzdaniels: if the breakage is in dbus-monitor itself, and fixing it doesn't risk breaking dbus itself, I don't mind if you want to fix it06:33
danielsmdz: thanks06:33
danielsKamion: hum06:43
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tsenganyone using the new totem pkg?06:59
sivangjust upgraded. dpkg asks about hal config file, replace?06:59
danielsKamion: 06:59
tsengif i start totem while muine was using the dsp, it crashes06:59
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~/mirror/warty-local/dists/warty/main/debian-installer/binary-i386% for i in $(zgrep '^Filename:' Packages.gz | sed -e 's/^Filename: //;'); do (cd ~/mirror/warty-local/$(dirname $i) && wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/$i); done06:59
Kamionlooks reasonable to me, if gross :)07:00
Kamionyou might want a mkdir -p in there07:00
danielsalready done a mkdir -p loop07:00
danielsit's happily downloading all the udebs now07:00
Kamiondebmirror for dummies. :)07:00
danielsit was the easiest way to not do a debmirror ;)07:01
danielsthe problem was that I moved my local cache over with apt-move (which has every package I need -- I checked)07:01
danielsso I ran debmirror to just get the main/d-i section, and it decided to clobber the Release file and delete all of my debs07:01
danielsso I wget'ed the Packages.{gz,bz2} from auckland, hacked the Release file by hand, and now I'm wget'ing the udebs07:02
danielsghetto mirror 10107:03
thomspeaking of ghetto, it appears i'm moving07:09
danielsthom: oh?07:22
danielsthom: where to?07:25
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=== lamont_r waves
danielslamont_r: hey dude07:29
danielsKamion: (turns out linux-image hadn't been updated -- go figure)07:33
danielsKamion: bloody good job on d-i btw; it should, by rights, be absolutely refusing to install (hacked-up setup, plus about twenty failures and other crap)07:34
Kamiond-i's pretty good at coping with weird shit :)07:38
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danielssecond stage ...07:45
lamont_rany rc bugs for me to help with?07:59
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=== zepo [~zepo@host93-167.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
amulamont_r: firefox ? ;)  08:36
=== lamont_r ducks
lamont_rI thought they decided that firefox was a heisenbug08:40
sivanglamont_r : how did it go with postifx eventually?08:41
sivangah, just noticed debian branding issue in emacs08:42
sivang"modified by debian project"08:43
azeemwhat's wrong with that?08:43
sivangah nothing08:44
tsengit was modified by debian project, no?08:44
sivang I just noticed it was removed from openoffice,08:44
sivangwhich was also modified by the debian proejct..08:45
sivangso figured this should be consistent.08:45
lamont_rsivang: considering upload now, although I'd like _one_ more set of eyes first...08:48
sivanglamont_r : you've fixed up the postfix-doc oopsy ?08:53
amulamont_r: hehe ( heissenbug ) 08:53
lamont_rsivang: the .gz issue?08:53
sivanglamont_r : yes. that missing file.08:54
lamont_rfixed that by pointing to the html version, which is never compressed.08:54
sivanglamont_r : page me I will give it another run also08:54
amui found something nice to fix, ex. if i install german env, i got a english openoffice, english *spellcheckers ... should it german instead of english ;) ? 08:54
lamont_rsee bug 202208:54
lamont_ramu: and lots of "misspelled" words, eh?08:55
amulamont_r: thats no prob and impossible to fix i18n from gnome, but as a new user, i expect choosing german or any other lang, my programs and depends setuped in german, just a little more useability08:58
=== zepo [~zepo@host93-167.pool8250.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKamion: around?09:01
Kamionmdz: yep09:05
lamont_ramu: yeah09:07
fabbionehey amu09:10
amufabbione: buona sera ;) 09:11
fabbioneamu: heheh09:11
amufabbione: what up, you GF is again away ? *ducked* 09:13
lamont_rfabbione: gmt+3 there?09:13
Kamionmdz: will be gone for dinner in about 15 minutes09:14
fabbioneamu: ehehehe09:15
fabbionelamont_r: gmt+209:15
fabbione(we are still summer time)09:15
lamont_rright.  so london + 109:15
fabbioneamu: she is sleeping.. all this changing house stuff is killing us a bit09:16
fabbionelamont_r: yeps09:16
amuhehe, summertime, but 8C here 09:16
fabbioneamu: yeah... nothing new about it :-)))09:17
=== myk [~myk@sclab-25-433.sclab.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mykis there documentation on the correct way to rebuild debian packages for ubuntu?09:17
Kamionmyk: the only things that build our packages are our build daemons ...09:18
mdzKamion: have a moment to review ubuntu-meta for me?09:18
Kamionmdz: sure09:18
Kamionwhat is it? :)09:18
mdzthe thing which generates ubuntu-base and ubuntu-desktop09:18
mykKamion, i'd like to use robert love's netapplet, and there's already a debian package for it.  can i just install it?09:19
Kamionmyk: should be able to yes09:19
Kamionmyk: failing that just build the package in the normal Debian way on an Ubuntu system09:19
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lamont_rmyk: for rebuilding, the trivial answer is: have current build-depends installed and say dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b09:20
myklamont_r: thanks09:20
lamont_rI guess there's and apt-get version that does that for you, but I can't ever remember it... :-)09:21
myki'm new to the debian system... still thinking in gentoo09:22
lamont_rmyk: the build daemons actually us a chroot to build things, and 'sbuild' to deal with getting in and out of the chroot properly.09:24
lamont_rbut that's overkill for most things.09:25
mykis there a way for users to submit rebuilt packages to say, universe?09:26
lamont_rmyk: for that, generate a diff vs the ubunut source that fixes the issue, and file a bug with that.09:27
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myklamont_r: well, this is a debian package I just downloaded that isn't yet available in ubuntu09:27
lamont_ras time permits, we'll review it and upload09:27
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont_rthen the buildds build it in the pristine environment09:28
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thommdz: i guess you and jdub need to work out a sane strategy for firefox, but the current release isn't sustainable09:30
lamont_rthom: ouch09:30
=== lamont_r upgrades yet again. 214 packages. sigh.
mdzthom: it does seem a bit on the shitty side09:35
mdz   * Add ipw2100 and ipw2200 to nic-extra-modules.09:35
=== mdz high-fives Kamion
Kamionthought you'd like that09:35
mdzKamion: that includes the firmware as well?09:35
Kamiondunno why I'd forgotten it09:35
Kamionno, not the firmware, that involves more work09:36
KamionI do want to do that before warty though, if I can09:36
mdzI thought you were intentionally leaving it out because the firmware wouldn't work yet09:36
Kamionmight as well have it in there, then at least even if I don't get the firmware in people can copy it over on a USB stick or a floppy09:36
lamont_rdoes this mean that we have those stupid d-link cards working now?09:36
Kamionthat would suck, but only gently09:36
Kamionthe d-link cards need ndiswrapper, don't they?09:37
KamionI haven't included that, that seems like lots more pain09:37
elmo_the word your look for is WORLDDESTROYINGCRACK09:37
lamont_rno issue here.09:38
lamont_rndiswarpper evil.09:38
lamont_rand warping, apparently09:38
lamont_rfabbione: daniels: how do I tell X to switch bits-per-pixel without restarting X?09:41
sivanglamont_r : ok, i see it's accepted. have a look at it? or when it's accepted that means it's uploaded already?09:41
lamont_raccepted means that the source is in the archive.  given thebuild time, the binaries will be available in just over 23 minutes09:41
sivanglamont_r : ok09:42
lamont_rthat reminds me - time to close the bug.09:43
fabbionelamont_r: you mean depth?09:43
fabbionelamont_r: you can't.. 09:43
fabbioneyou need to restart X09:43
lamont_rok.  something to do after the upgrade finishes,then.09:44
lamont_rxresprobe doesn't give depth, edid fails, and the card claims that it does 24-bit.09:44
lamont_rfor whatever reason, 16 bit was chosen back in the dawn of time for this system09:44
lamont_rfabbione: there was a keystroke sequence for changing resolution though, yes?09:45
thomand ctrl+shift+-09:47
lamont_rhrm.. metacity seems to keep those grabbed, or the LCD doesn't want to change, or something.. :-)09:47
=== fabbione is trying to kill X11R6 and mostlikely X11 from the filesystem in a nice way
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thommdz: if we go back to 0.9.3 we'll need to sync the firefox language packs from unstable09:51
mdzthom: that sounds relatively painless09:51
mdzthom: certainly compared to the profile nightmares that would likely ensue09:51
thomi'm sure downgrading profiles is even less supported than upgrading them09:52
mdzecho "rm -rf /home/*/.mozilla/firefox" >> mozilla-firefox.postinst09:52
thomthe firefox wrapper script does something similar, actually. it may or may not be enough09:52
=== lamont_r looks at 1927, ponders the fact that he doesn't see it on his vaio (with an RTL8139)
mdzKamion: any feedback on ubuntu-meta?09:59
lamont_rgnumeric.desktop contains invalid MIME type 'comma-separated-values'09:59
lamont_r(missing slash)09:59
mdzlamont_r: how is multiverse looking in terms of builds?10:00
lamont_rit was chunking along - let me go look10:01
elmo_1.1G    ftp/pool/multiverse10:01
elmo_^-- multiverse entries in q-d10:01
lamont_r209 total multiverse packages (i386), 75 Installed.10:02
elmo_a lot of the marillat stuff probably won't build - some of it wasn't even signed (woot)10:03
lamont_r76 dep-wait, 4 needs-build, 53 building (==failed)10:03
elmo_heh half the world dep-waiting on java10:04
lamont_rnot surprising. :-(10:05
=== thom goes to sit in front of the tv and do NetworkManager packages
thomsince world+dog have now asked10:05
=== lamont_r [~lamont@dsl-140-203.dynamic-dsl.frii.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont_rhrm.. telling xchat to open a url in a new tab of mozilla was working with firefox before the upgrade..10:22
Mithrandirlamont_r: http://freerelay.raw.no/setup-postfix ?10:24
lamont_rum, that just says how to use freerelay.raw.no as a relay...10:26
lamont_ralthough I must wonder why you have relayhost twice...10:26
lamont_ralso, I think you really want [freerelay.raw.no] :252510:26
lamont_rwithout the []  it does MX lookups10:26
lamont_rtime to go get kids from school.  bbiab10:27
sivangI have a user wanting to make a custome kernel, is this applicable to ubuntu already? (e.g, k-src pageas, build-deb it etc)10:49
sivang(just like it goes for debian?)10:49
mdzmako: ping?10:54
mdzsivang: it is almost the same; the packages are named linux-* rather than kernel-*10:56
sivangmdz : yes, someone else noted it on #ubuntu, I checked so it's cool. afterwards it's make xconfig/menuconfig and dpkg-builddeb..;)10:57
mdzsivang: generally, when someone is new to the system and is asking to compile the kernel, the question is "why?" :-)10:58
sivangdidn't even think of asking him10:58
sivangbut he said himself,10:58
mdzso many people are accustomed to compiling the kernel just because they've always done it10:58
sivang"I think I need for booting my USB drive"10:58
sivanghis kenrel panics on /dev/console missing || cannot open10:59
mdzsame guy from the mailing list?10:59
mdzif so, I think he's in over his head10:59
sivanghe told me he used to do this on gentoo (compile the kernel with uid support built in)10:59
sivangand it worked for him.10:59
sivangsec, I'll search10:59
sivangoh god..He's gone to IRSSI, I am afraid something there is going to break..shall I shout him to stop? :)11:00
=== sivang is very happy at ubuntu's approach to _not_ having to compile the kernel everytime a gfx driver changes.
makomdz: hey there11:03
mdzmako: hey, I noticed that LWN didn't pick up this week's traffic, do we need to synchronize with them or something in order for that to happen?11:04
makomdz: whats up?11:04
sivanghey mako11:04
makosivang: hey11:04
makomdz: i didn't realize they had picked up other traffics11:04
mdzmako: http://lwn.net/Articles/103368/11:05
mdzmako: last week picked up traffic #511:05
mdzwhich is awesome11:05
mdzit would be even better if they did it every week from now on :-)11:05
mdzso 0923 had a headline article about ubuntu, 0930 had traffic #5, but this week we're a zero :-(11:06
makomdz: excellent.. do we have a contact there or should i just email lwn@lwn.net?11:07
mdzmako: I think lwn@lwn.net is the place11:07
makoi'm happy to just BCC traffic to them every week then11:07
mdzmako: I think we probably want to set up an ubuntu-news, a la debian-news11:07
makomdz: i was thinking of that11:07
mdzI'm pretty sure lwn@lwn.net subscribes, and that's how they pick up DWN11:07
mdzmako: mail jdub on it?11:07
makomdz: sure, i can do that11:07
makomdz: i'm going to try to hook up with kernel traffic i think too 11:08
makomdz: so we're in their header11:08
mdzmako: once it's set up, we should announce it to -announce for those folks who are ready for more traffic than -announce, but less than -users :-)11:08
makomdz: absolutely11:08
makomdz: can you verify that you can you regen your pw in shipit and such without getting internal server errors for me?11:10
mdzmako: yep, works11:11
mdzat least, doesn't throw an error11:11
makokiko pointed out you can order negative cds :)11:13
makoif you do this, i will flag it when shipping and send someone to your house to steal your cds11:13
mdzgood plan11:14
m_tthewmako: worked for me 100%11:18
m_tthewmako: the new shipit stuff11:18
Mithrandirmdz: would you be unhappy if I sat down and implemented good amd64 nvidia support over the weekend, wrt stability?11:18
mdzMithrandir: no, I would be quite pleased in fact11:18
makom_tthew: awesome :)11:18
mdzI started on it, but it required more time than I could devote11:18
mdzMithrandir: if you want, I'll send you what I have11:18
Mithrandirmdz: the student society has some amd64 cards, so I'm going to borrow it.11:19
Mithrandirmdz: yes, please.11:19
mdzargh, I can't11:19
mdzapparently I deleted it11:19
mdzit was a mess anyway; I had pretty much decided I should have rewritten debian/rules instead11:19
Mithrandirit uses the nvidia-kernel-source thingy, or how is all this structured?11:19
mdzMithrandir: as long as you can verify that the existing i386 package is exactly the same after your modifications, I'm OK with it11:20
MithrandirI haven't looked at it at all11:20
mdzMithrandir: it's all part of linux-restricted-modules11:20
Mithrandirincluding the X module bit?11:20
Mithrandirok, coolie11:20
Mithrandirverification should be easy.11:20
mdzit builds sboth the modules and nvidia-glx11:20
=== thom_ [~thom@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thom_daniels: ping?11:33
sabdflerm... i can't believe i even found the words "ndiswrapper" and "installer" in the same SENTENCE in scrollback tonight :-)11:41
sabdflkamion: did I read it right, we have fw in the installer? awesome, great work indeed.11:43
=== thom_ bounces up and down on redhat's head
thom_using bleeding unreleased features in dbus11:45
sabdflthom: careful dude, russian joke about condoms calls them "red hats", and this is a very multicultrual channel11:45
mdzsabdfl: we don't yet have firmware in the installer, but Kamion has done much of the work and we may have it for Warty11:46
sabdflfantastic, that's a big one for me, worth leaving one or two other warts in for if it comes down to a choice11:46
thom_sabdfl: thanks, i'm now disturbed :-)11:47
=== chrisa moves away from thom
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel

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