=== lamont notes that sound no longer works on his vaio. grumble
lamontotoh, it now powers off when it shutsdown. :-)12:01
mdzit's very encouraging to see that an increasing fraction of #ubuntu and ubuntu-users seems to be non-ubuntu-specific user support12:07
Kamionmdz: I don't seem to have got your mail about ubuntu-meta12:12
Kamion(un?)fortunately I am being asked to go to bed now; I hope it can wait until tomorrow12:14
thomNetworkManager ate my network12:15
thom(and lets not mention the fact i'm running a cvs version of dbus, either)12:16
lamontmdz: so which snd modules did I not want loaded?12:18
mdzlamont: eh?12:18
lamontupgraded my vaio today.  ENOSOUND.12:19
mdzKamion: weird; I'll upload it someplace instead12:20
mdzKamion: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mdz/temp/ubuntu-meta_0.1.tar.gz12:20
mdzif anyone else would like to take a look as well, I'd appreciate it12:20
azeemlamont: perhaps the mixers are muted?12:20
azeemhappens for me all the time, although on unstable12:21
mdzlamont: sounds like you want them loaded, rather than wanting them not loaded12:21
lamontwas thinking oss vs alsa crap again.12:22
lamontotoh, this is that wonderful realtek stack...12:23
lamontbut my network does work (RTL813912:23
mdzthe oss vs. alsa crap was solved long ago by getting rid of discover12:26
mdzMithrandir: if you're going to fix nvidia, please fix that awful bit where you need to update the nvidia version number by hand in debian/rules with every upload12:29
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mdzthat bites everyone12:29
pooh_strange. does a manual edit of /etc/fstab supposed to trigger a complete crash of gnome?12:29
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 13 RC bugs to go
lamontboo hiss12:33
sivangsure I added something to /media , but  a crash?12:33
mdzsivang: yes that's a feature, the "crash feature"12:34
sivangmdz : :-))12:35
sivangmdz : maybe adding it under /mnt would be better?12:36
mdzsivang: subdirectories under /mnt are evil12:36
mdz /media is the right place for random storage devices, if that's what it is12:36
sivangmdz : why? /mnt is the good'o no?12:37
sivangmdz : oh, it's a vfat part.12:37
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mdzsivang: then it doesn't belong under /media, just create a directory for it someplace12:37
mdzsivang: /mnt is meant for having things mounted on it.  if you make subdirectories under it, they are masked when you mount something on /mnt12:37
sivangmdz : but it shouldn't crash whenever I edit the file right?12:38
mdzsivang: it should never crash, ever12:38
sivangmdz : :-)12:39
sivangmdz : i'll look for it on the bts12:39
sivangmdz : if I put hd parts on /mnt, I get to click them on file manager and they automount. I like that.12:41
sivanghmmm, trying another upgrade: debconf: apt-extracttemplates faild: Bad file descriptor.12:42
sivangit just hung up after fetching.12:42
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r4bb1tdoes anyone know offhand if acpi and apm can be on at the same time and play nice?12:43
r4bb1tmy side question is: how does ubuntu suspend? using ACPI or APM?12:44
thomit doesn't, in general12:44
lamont2.6.8.1-2 has sound, doesn't power off. has no sound, powers off.... hrm...12:44
thomwe can't safely turn it on globally12:44
thomsince many, many laptops do all kinda loopy things when you suspend them12:44
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sivangcan't start gnome back...12:47
=== lamont needs to find a map of the UK online somewhere...
thomlamont: http://www.ukguide.org/ukmap.html ?12:49
thomwhat detail do you need?12:49
lamontthom: awesome.12:49
lamonthrm.. she needs to find some rivers too...12:50
dokorivers, in uk?12:50
lamontyeah, they exist.12:50
lamontthe camm for example..12:50
=== lamont ponders why rebooting into -2 and back into -3 fixed sound...
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sivangno luck :(12:51
sivangwhere can I see logs to find out what's bugging my gnome?12:52
thomlamont: well, http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/ has a vicious click through license, but is pretty cool12:52
thomsivang: .xsession-errors12:52
seb128sivang: what's happening ?12:52
sivangseb128,thom : it all started with a very innocent personal touch to fstab,12:53
sivangseb128,thom : then an upgrade in text mode, now gnome gets stuck with the 2 pannels and nothing more.12:54
seb128what's the change in fstab ?12:54
sivangseb128 : I added a vfat part to it, first it pointed at /media (it used to work that way) no on /mnt12:55
sivanglooking at xsession-erros:12:55
sivanggnome_execute_async_with_env_fds: returning -112:55
sivangkilling it and retuning to gdm, trying to relogin doesn't help.12:56
seb128dpkg -l gnome-panel ?12:58
sivangseb128 : what's the best way to see what happend on the last upgrade?12:59
sivangseb128 : I wasn't near the machine, it might have upgraded the kernel01:00
seb128dpkg -l gnome-panel ?01:00
sivangseb128 : wouldn't I have to reboot in this case?01:00
seb128I don't think so01:00
sivangseb128 : it's there, sec. (on irssi)01:00
seb128ii ?01:01
seb128gnome_execute_async_with_env_fds <- I think it's trying to start something missing01:01
sivangseb128 : i'll do a cold reboot, and try again?01:01
sivangc'ya in a sec.01:01
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sivangit worked :)01:04
sivangstrange. I got used to debian not having to ever reboot 01:04
seb128yeah, that's weird01:05
seb128perhaps a hal issue ...01:05
sivangmaybe. there have been a couple of them.01:05
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mdzjdub: ping?01:11
sivangmdz : what would be your oppinion about a python http bug-buddy to bugzilla hack for Hoary?01:12
mdzjdub: do you have the original presentation file for those 1-2-3 slides?01:13
mdzsivang: for hoary, we'll be transitioning away from bugzilla01:13
jdubmdz: yeah, will send you the bits01:13
jdubit's updated too01:13
mdzjdub: awesome01:13
mdzjdub: a friend of mine is doing a presentation this evening for a LUG and asked for slides01:13
sivangmdz : to what?01:13
jdubmdz: i'll send you jane's too01:14
mdzjdub: I have jane's, unless you've changed it since she sent it out01:14
jduboh, nup01:14
thomsivang: magic01:14
thomsivang: or malone, even :-)01:14
sivangthom : is there a place to read about those?01:17
thomsivang: i rather suspect not, currently01:17
thomi believe there is already an xml-rpc client for it tho01:19
sivangnice, anyway I'm headed to bed. Night everybody01:21
mdzjdub: I saw your bug closure for vim-gnome, but no upload02:01
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jdubi thought you fixed it a while back - i don't have an icon here02:02
jduboh, puce -> panel is dead02:03
jdubmdz: fixing/uploading now02:04
mdzjdub: I thought I had, too, but I didn't02:06
tsengjdub: anything more you need from me to get mono in?02:10
jdubtseng: just a confirm from mdz :)02:11
tsengi updated tomboy and monodevelop02:11
mdzjdub: mm?02:11
mdzI thought we already exchanged email on that. new versions now or something?02:11
tsengwe did, it was approved02:12
tsengwhats the next step?02:12
=== tseng sits on the outside and looks in
=== lamont curses at xteddy rubymagick qvwm prestimel pixelize pike7.6-image mgp libepplet0 libautotrace3 idesk icewm-experimental icewm guikachu2rcp guikachu epplets enlightenment endeavour2 dvdauthor chameleon autotrace animal0 ale
lamonton the bright side, they're all in universe.02:34
lamonton the dark side, they all Depend: libtiff3g on powerpc, and are therefore not installable.02:34
lamontfabbione: daniels: you around?02:41
lamont /etc/init.d/xfree86-common: line 11: /lib/lsb/init-functions: No such file or directory02:41
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justdavehmm...  wonder if the keys for mouse emulation on ppc should be different...03:50
justdaveF12 appears to be 'right-click'03:51
justdaveit's also my eject key, and now I can't eject03:51
justdavebecause typical Apple hardware has no eject button on the actual cd drawer03:51
justdaveI can eject okay by right-clicking on the CD in nautilus and picking eject, but that leaves the drawer open, and it's one of those ones that feels like you're going to break it if you push the drawer hard enough to make it shut03:52
tsenghmm, did pitti's utopia packages go away?04:05
npmccallumtseng: I believe they are in the archive nw04:08
tsengnpmccallum: the archive looks to be ubuntu4, his sources are ubuntu504:08
=== tseng shrugs
tsengunless its pending or something.04:09
danielsthom: pong04:48
danielslamont: pong04:48
danielslamont: i don't think you can do depth moves04:49
danielsthom: but I'm running out the door now, and won't be back for a couple of hours. give me a call if you need me.04:52
danielsthom: oh, you just want bleeeeeeeding edge dbus, I see. i'll sort that out tonight.04:53
mdzthere seem to be a lot of successful builds from universe where the packages aren't in the archive yet05:42
mdzthe buildds are BST, right?  that was hours ago05:43
=== lamont will check
mdzwhy does lsb depend on 'make'?05:56
lamontmdz: probably for the same reason that it Depends: on cron, libc6-dev, lpr, m4, mawk, passwd, procps, etc...06:02
lamontthey're part of the spec?06:02
mdzok, let me rephrase06:05
mdzwhy does LSB require make and libc6-dev?06:05
lamontdaemon.log:Oct  8 02:10:05 buildd-mail: mythtv must be manually dinstall-ed -- delayed06:07
lamontmdz: nfc06:07
mdzlamont: ah, right06:07
mdzI keep forgetting about that bit, in the midst of all the delicious automation we have otherwise :-)06:07
fabbionemorning guys06:21
fabbionethuderbird crashed on me06:22
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fabbionehey mdz08:12
fabbioneand it is done according to:08:13
fabbionelamont: 2151 pending upload?08:16
lamontno - I fat fingered something08:16
fabbione(also please take ownership of the bug so i we know someone is working on it)08:16
fabbioneahah ok08:16
lamontfabbione: that would be the same firefox bug as the pending upload08:17
lamont(back doesn't quite do it...)08:17
lamontyou have to re-enter everything. :-(*08:17
fabbionemdz: 2158 are you on it?08:17
fabbionelamont: it's not only on firefox.. it's on all browsers and justdave claims to be ok, but it was different before08:18
justdaveI'm not ok, I get it too08:21
fabbionejustdave: well, why did you close the bug than?08:21
justdavewhich bug?08:21
justdaveunless I'm confused about what you're talking about, there's still an open bug on it08:21
mdzfabbione: I will not be able to deal with it until tomorrow; it is yours if you want it08:22
fabbionejustdave: the one that was open by a girl i think and where i added info08:22
fabbionemdz: ok i take it. Can you send me the usual stuff if you have any?08:22
mdzfabbione: I'll look08:22
fabbionemdz: the patch is one line08:22
justdavelooks open to me still08:22
justdave2109 also (which has comments from you)08:23
fabbionejustdave: 210908:23
justdaveI think the two are related08:23
fabbioneok.. i must have misread the bug number08:23
fabbionethere was one invalidated.. i am sure08:24
fabbioneor you are cheating behind the lines :PP08:24
justdaveI have yet to find anyone who knows enough about DOM and caching to tell me why it's broken08:24
fabbionejdub: you will have to take the last 2 bugs you opened08:32
fabbionejdub: i don't have a synaptic thing to even check what you are talkign about08:32
fabbionealso.. the synaptics driver is not shipped by xfree8608:32
jdubfabbione: assign to daniel :)08:35
jdubso, if i do a dpkg-reconfigure when xfree86 is already configured08:35
jdubit doesnt' change the file08:36
fabbionejdub: that's because you modified the config file manually08:36
jdubjust found that bit in the file08:37
mdzfabbione: did you receive the email?08:38
fabbionemdz: yes08:39
=== lamont sleeps
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fabbionemdz: i updated the office stuff to reflect my office movement situation09:32
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pittijdub: just tried the new gdm; isn't it a little bothering to hear the same lengthy sound two times in short succession?09:50
jdubpitti: yes09:51
pittijdub: so will the login sound be disabled then?09:51
jdubpitti: depending on whether or not the event sounds stay enabled09:51
jdubpitti: the sound may change09:51
pittijdub: personally I'd prefer a short, short confirmation sound when gdm finished, but that's a matter of taste...09:52
jdubthat's what it would be if the event sounds stay enabled09:52
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pittiHi seb128!10:19
seb128hello pitti 10:19
Kamionmdz: hmm, please make ubuntu-meta/update sort the package lists it spits out :) it's pretty much impossible to compare them to anything as it is10:22
Kamionmdz: looks like the right idea, but the actual packages will need testing; I'm slightly concerned that we're going to be making all our users regression-test germinate :-)10:24
Kamionmdz: please also blacklist hfsplus hfsutils libhfsp0 from amd64 and i386; and you might want to consider blacklisting the kernel10:25
Kamionmdz: oh, and grub and yaboot10:25
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sivangmorning all11:07
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thomdaniels: it's already done :-)11:25
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sivangMight Herbert Xu be here?12:00
elmo_I don't think he IRCs12:00
fabbionehey elmo_12:21
fabbioneelmo_: do you think can i make the last X upload using my canonical.com address? ;)12:21
elmo_how do you mean?  *@canonical.com is whitelisted.. if you mean your key, blah12:22
fabbioneelmo_: the latter ;)12:22
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danielsthom: rad12:39
=== Kamion falls over
Kamionmy scary kernel-wedge hack for firmware pretty much worked first time12:41
Mithrandiryou're doing firmware-for-di-hacking?12:41
MithrandirKamion: do you have anything to do with the rc-bug-list?12:43
Mithrandirfrom bugscan12:43
Kamionwhich one?12:43
Mithrandircould you add an explanation to what the colors mean?  And, it would be nice to have some icons for people like me who are red-green color-blind.12:44
Kamionbloody hell, it's jumped a lot12:44
Kamionthere's already an explanation there12:44
KamionThe red line graphs all bugs with release-critical severities; the green line graphs the number of bugs that are actually a concern for the next release (excluding ignored bugs, bugs on packages not in testing, and bugs whose tags indicate that they don't apply to testing).12:44
Mithrandiroh, not the graph, the list.12:44
Kamionas to icons, tell me how to do it in gnuplot :)12:44
Kamionthe colours are just visual additions to the existing letters12:44
danielsKamion: remind me to buy you a beer some day12:46
Mithrandirdaniels: we'll get kamion really drunk during next meeting. :)12:47
KamionMithrandir: I'll try to remember to add some descriptions of the colours at some point12:47
MithrandirKamion: thanks.12:47
Kamionhaven't really bugscan-hacked for a little while, there's a bug with all-numeric package names that needs to be fixed first12:47
elmo_use R, it's fun for stats pr0n graphcs12:47
fabbionebt in gdb01:00
fabbionein which order does it show the trace?01:00
fabbione0 is the last function called and NN the first one traced?01:00
fabbioneor viceversa? ala strace?01:00
Mithrandirfirst is deepest in the call stack01:01
fabbioneso NN is the last called01:02
fabbioneMithrandir: comment 801:03
Mithrandiryou see that #30 is main :P01:03
fabbioneMithrandir: yes, but X is not that "main"01:03
fabbioneit does a lot to recover from a crash01:03
Mithrandirseems to be the X server's main function.01:04
fabbioneit would make sence01:04
fabbionebut i am not sure about the raise() at 001:05
fabbionethat's like kill <proc> <sig>01:05
fabbioneanyway.. food time :-))01:05
Mithrandirthat's the result of it getting a signal in #701:05
Mithrandirand #5 probably has a line abort()01:05
Mithrandiror, ddxGiveUp, has one.01:05
fabbionegood point01:06
sivangjohn levin here?01:16
elmo_huh?  I thought our debootstrap had a .buildd variant?01:30
Mithrandirelmo_: I don't think it's shipped.01:31
Mithrandirelmo_: want a copy, or do you have it?01:32
elmo_no, it's cool, don't need it as it turned out01:44
elmo_might be nice to ship it tho someday01:45
MithrandirI just got it from lamont, but I agree it would be useful to ship it01:50
lamontin the current debootstrap01:51
elmo_lamont: "no such file: warty.buildd"01:51
=== lamont runs off again
lamontle huh. will check when I get back01:51
lamontapt-get source has it.. :-(01:51
Mithrandirlamont: yeah, but currently we don't even ship the file. :P01:51
Mithrandirdoko: any progress with AVM?01:54
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Kamionlamont: would've been a good idea to add it to Makefile ;)02:16
Kamionlamont: I'll fix02:18
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lamontKamion: I could swear I did that.02:47
lamontkids to school (last was a fire call..), bbiah02:53
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pittijdub: may I upload #2165? Trivial, but... protocol...03:56
Kamionquick review of http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/kernel-wedge.diff, please?04:07
Kamioncopy-firmware is basically just clone-and-hack of copy-modules04:07
Kamionand then there's a bunch of other gunk for putting the *-firmware-di packages together04:08
Kamionseems to work with linux-kernel-di-amd64-2.6 and my new linux-kernel-restricted-di-2.604:08
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Kamionhm, although something's still wrong, never mind for the moment04:09
seb128mdz, jdub: ok to upload the patch in #1643 ?04:31
pittifabbione: got a minute?04:31
pittiKamion: I just had a friend of me installing Ubuntu. He was bitten by #993 (no grub menu to select windows)04:36
pittiKamion: will this be settled by release? Would you oppose to raising it to major?04:36
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ggiI'm noticing some odd phenomena. Playing music in Rhythmbox results in quite noticeable hisses and pops on some tracks. Playing things in Muine sounds absolutely fine, but only sometimes. It seems to be playing fine now (I just killed esd), but often it plays fine when esd is running, then hisses and pops after I run ogg123, which in turn has noticeable popping in the output.04:47
ggiAny ideas of what's to blame here? My natural reaction was to blame esd, but that can't explain the ogg123 thing.04:50
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ggiWould anyone care if I put up an ogg file with noticeable pops/clicks when played with Rhythmbox somewhere?05:09
ggiExcept the copyright holders, obviously.05:09
=== lamont is happy to introduce http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html (where today is london time, and only changes if there are new log files for that day...)
Mithrandirlamont: RSS feed, pretty please?05:11
lamontMithrandir: uh, how?05:11
=== lamont has never done rss...
Mithrandirwrite a perl script using XML::RSS or something?05:12
lamonttsk tsk.05:12
MithrandirI've only done it in perl, I guess there are python modules to do the same thing.05:12
=== lamont has no clue where to start... maybe one of your scripts?
Mithrandirhmm, you have a cron job pushing over the new data, right?05:15
Mithrandirthat is, the new logs.05:15
Mithrandiror rather, how is today.html built?05:16
Kamionpitti: I was planning to do it before release anyway05:18
Kamionpitti: I'm not convinced it's major, since people can just hit Escape05:18
pittiKamion: my friend was just confused, he did not catch the one-line message which said to press Esc05:21
pittiKamion: but if it's fixed by the release, I don't really care about the severity :-)05:21
pittiKamion: another thing: my friend selected English language, but German keyboard in the installer05:22
pittiKamion: however, the installed system had an English keyboard and POSIX locale05:22
pittiKamion: shall I submit that as a bug , or do you know about it?05:22
Kamionconsole or X?05:22
pittiI didn't check console05:22
pittiI advised him to switch in Gnome05:22
Kamiondo so; if it's just X then it's an X bug05:22
pitti(the keyboard)05:23
pittiokay, I do05:23
pittistandard locale was POSIX05:23
KamionPOSIX locale is the expected result of selecting English at the moment, I think05:23
pittibut he actually needs en_US05:23
Kamion{language,country}chooser are odd05:23
pittibecause otherwise you cannot enter umlaute otherwise05:23
KamionI'd rather not attempt to fix that for warty05:23
Kamionit's subtle and quick to anger05:23
pittiI had him call dpkg-reconfigure locale and set en_US.UTF-805:23
pittiKamion: no, this shouldn't be fixed for warty, but the keyboard selection should work05:24
pittiI try under console, brb05:24
lamontMithrandir: the cronjob that pulls the log files processes the output of rsync, actually.. :-)05:24
Mithrandirlamont: so there's no way to say "please give me the log files for $DATE"?05:25
pittiKamion: it works correctly at the consoles05:25
pittiKamion: so, an X configuration bug05:25
lamontonly in that it actually builds yyyymmdd.html, and symlinks today.html to it.05:25
pittiKamion: shall I bother fabbione with that?05:25
lamontwhat I added today is the symlink to today.thml05:25
pittiKamion: or is it an installer bug?05:25
lamontMithrandir: see http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/05:26
Kamionpitti: -> fabbione05:26
pittiKamion: okay, I'll file a bug05:26
Kamionpitti: my job ends when X starts :)05:26
Kamionhm, bugger05:26
Mithrandirlamont: yeah.. I could possibly build something off that. it's on rookery, right?05:27
Kamiondoes anyone care if nic-restricted-firmware.udeb doesn't depend on kernel-image or firmware-modules?05:27
pittiKamion: BTW, his USB key crashes hal, so I also got sth to do now :-)05:27
=== Kamion figures that if I can live without those dependencies then nobody else is going to care ...
lamontKamion: sounds reasonable, I think.05:29
lamontare udeb's even used anywhere other than d-i?05:29
Mithrandirlamont: no05:29
lamontMithrandir: btw, would be interested in seeing the RSS feed when you get it happy...05:30
Mithrandirlamont: I'll give it a shot when I've banged my head through a wall with the amd64 nvidia drivers. :)05:30
Kamionin that case http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/kernel-wedge.diff should really be reviewable now05:31
MithrandirKamion: I seriously dislike ( while read foo; ... ) < file, but that might just be me.05:33
MithrandirI'd rather have rewritten that part in awk or python or something.05:34
KamionMithrandir: copy-firmware is a cloned-and-hacked copy of copy-modules. I explicitly avoided changing too much stuff because I wanted to keep the diff against copy-modules small.05:34
KamionI'm slightly uncomfortable with the clone-and-hack in the first place, but it was less risky that way.05:35
=== Mithrandir blinks over the triple nested subshells and piping between those.
MithrandirKamion: why not rather use cp -a than two tar processes?05:37
Mithrandiroh, yeah, I see.05:37
Keybukcpio -p05:38
KeybukMithrandir: I dislike ( ) < foo too ... exec 3<&0 <file is better05:39
Kamion16:34 < Kamion> Mithrandir: copy-firmware is a cloned-and-hacked copy of copy-modules. I explicitly avoided changing too much stuff because I wanted to keep the diff against copy-modules small.05:39
thomNetworkManager appears unkeen on hidden networks05:40
Mithrandirwe're shipping the isl3890 firmware now?05:40
Mithrandirthat's cool :)05:40
Keybukthom: yeah, it was written to ignore them; wasn't it?05:40
Kamionif you want to review copy-firmware then please review the diff against copy-modules :)05:40
MithrandirKamion: it looks fairly good to me, but I have just read the diff and I don't know kernel-wedge too well.05:41
thomKeybuk: unkeen to the point of exploding05:41
Mithrandirwhat's a hidden network?05:42
danielsthom: how's NM coming along?05:42
danielsMithrandir: wireless network that doesn't beacon05:43
KamionOK, I'm going to upload kernel-wedge on the basis that an upload of that is fairly harmless by itself, and see about the four client packages05:46
thomdaniels: well, i have something that seems to more or less work, kinda05:48
thomit needs a lot more time05:48
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danielsnpmccallum: hey dude06:04
npmccallumdaniels: hey, whats up?06:10
Kamionmdz: let me know if you're happy for me to add firmware udebs to the InstallerSeed and upload them06:18
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mdzKamion: separate firmware udebs?06:52
mdzKamion: or add the firmware to the appropriate existing udebs?06:52
Kamionmdz: separate06:53
Kamionit's excessively fiddly to have them mixed in with the existing udebs06:53
mdzas long as they're guaranteed to be synchronized06:55
mdzbecause that's the point of shipping it together with the kernel06:55
Kamionsame source package as linux-kernel-di-*06:55
mdzfine with me, then06:55
Kamionexcept for the restricted one06:56
Kamionwhich, AFAICT, needs to be separate06:56
Kamionthe rest of them are as guaranteed to be synchronized as you can get06:56
Kamion(I'm correct that we're disallowing main source from building restricted binaries, right?)06:57
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mdzKamion: it seems logical to have such a restriction07:15
|trey|restricted modules package name is....?07:20
mdz|trey|: apt-cache search restricted modules07:21
|trey|mdz: restcted is removed... I don't need them, but I don't recall the name  :(07:21
thommdz: ok to upload firefox? 1:0.9.3-6 ; plain debian with our branding patches07:22
mdzthom: replied to your email07:22
thomah, so you did07:22
thomi should set strict threads on my inbox07:22
fabbionethunderbird keeps crashing on me07:26
fabbionejust leaving it open07:26
=== thom sticks his fingers in his ears and whistles
thommdz: replied07:26
seb128mdz: ok to upload the patch in #1643 ?07:32
mdzseb128: is this a functional issue or a cosmetic/display issue?07:34
seb128functional. For the moment the default workgroup for samba in nautilus is WORKGROUP07:35
seb128if you want to change that the only way is to edit the gconf key directly (no UI)07:35
seb128with the patch it uses the workgroup in smb.conf if the file exists07:35
thommdz: i was thinking about this earlier07:35
thomusing an epoch is cleaner07:36
mdzseb128: I see07:36
mdzthom: epoch make baby jesus cry :-(07:36
thombut i suspect it's going to cause much pain later on when we want to remerge from debian07:36
seb128yeah, the epoch is bad07:36
thomthe monstrosity is also going to make baby jesus cry, but probably not so much07:36
elmo_for a temporary reversion, I tend to agree we should use a fugly but non-epoch-ful version07:36
mdzthe concatenated version seems less evil because the existing version is already a concatenated monstrosity07:36
mdzwtf is 0.99 anyway? was there ever such a version?07:37
thomwe're going to have to munge all the language packs, either which way07:37
elmo_let's face it - mozilla-firefox makes baby jesus cry.  version numbers don't even need to enter into it07:37
thommdz: 1.0PR sorts higher than 1.007:37
mdzthom: how many/which language packs will we get with 0.9.3?07:37
Kamionepoch would break dependencies later => bad07:37
Kamion(in ways we can't fix)07:38
thommdz: ~1107:38
mdzthom: sold07:39
mdzshall we stage this someplace?07:39
mdzor just go for warty?07:39
thomi'll stage it, but it'll have to wait for tomorrow morning now :/07:39
Kamion~11 as in use the ~ thing?07:39
thomKamion: as in about07:39
Kamionah, sorry07:40
Kamionpanicked for a second :)07:40
mdzKamion: you know, we probably *could* get away with that :-)07:40
thomKamion: *g*07:40
thommdz: aaaaaiee07:40
mdzour apt and dpkg both have support for it, our version would still compare positively to woody07:40
mdzbut let's not, hmm? :-)07:40
thommdz: agree 100000000% 07:41
thomanyway, i need to go catch up with friends for dinner07:41
mdzthom: if it's a matter of doing builds and setting up a repository, I can do it if you need to go07:41
elmo_katie will slap you down if you try07:41
Kamionmdz: run awaaaaaaaaaaay07:41
|trey|mdz: Ubuntu shouldn't compare to Woody, should compare to Sarge...07:42
thommdz: ok, will send you the current diff for firefox07:42
Kamionwon't woody's apt fall over if you try to do that?07:42
Kamion|trey|: we don't and can't support upgrades from sarge.07:42
mdz|trey|: the only officially supported upgrade path to warty is from woody07:43
Kamion|trey|: since sarge is not yet released, and will release after us07:43
mdzsarge is newer07:43
elmo_Kamion: no07:43
pittimdz: shall I ask elmo to sync libsasl2 (#1899), or did you already take care of this?07:43
thommdz: sent07:43
|trey|Kamion: I have a Sarge CD... Sarge was supposed to be released on the 12th... its pretty close...07:43
mdzpitti: please do07:43
elmo_using ~ is in fact entirely feasible, just untested and would require some emergency katie surgery07:43
Kamion|trey|: I am one of Sarge's release managers; if you want more authority I can find the other one07:44
mdzit is entirely feasible, the only problem is that it would be a pointless risk07:44
|trey|Kamion: ha, imma shut up now  :)07:44
mdzI don't think the tools choke on '~' or anything in woody, they just don't use the magic07:44
pittielmo_: Can you please sync cyrus-sasl2 from Debian? See #1899, mdz approved it. 07:45
mdzjustdave: could you hit #1379 one more time?07:46
thommdz: (grab firefox 0.9.3 orig from debian)07:46
elmo_pitti: it's not on the mirror we use yet - please mail me07:47
pittielmo_: okay, I do07:47
thom*gone*, good night folks07:48
seb128mdz: so, the smb/gnome-vfs patch, do we want it in ?07:48
seb128good evening thom 07:48
mdzseb128: right, sorry.  I've read it and it seems fairly safe.  Assuming that both you and James are confident in it for Warty, it's OK with me07:49
seb128ok, thanks07:50
mdzKamion: so about ubuntu-meta...07:51
Kamiondid you see my comments this morning?07:51
mdzI've made it sort the output07:51
mdzthe exceptions are going to suck a bit07:51
mdzso I'm thinking about lowering my expectations07:51
mdzmaybe we should just do this by hand for Warty07:51
Kamionsorry about the arch-specific blacklists07:51
Kamiondon't have a wiki syntax for those yet07:52
mdzwell, if there were a way I could authoritatively test it, that'd be fine07:52
mdzis there already a list someplace of what this thing should spit out?07:52
Kamionfor ubuntu-base, compare to debootstrap07:52
elmo_kamion: hmm, has germinated changed much recently?07:53
Kamionfor ubuntu-desktop, take two fresh warty debootstraps, and do 'apt-get install ubuntu-desktop' in one and 'aptitude install ~tubuntu-desktop' in the other07:53
Kamion2004-09-22 23:38:50 GMT Colin Watson <colin.watson@canonical.com>       patch-507:53
Kamionelmo_: that's the last code change07:53
Kamionhm, and that was cosmetic07:53
Kamionso no07:53
elmo_ok, mine's still doing screwy things with ored deps07:53
elmo_not sure what version I'm on tho, meh07:54
Kamiontla tree-version?07:54
Kamionhm, is there something that gives the patch number?07:54
elmo_looks like I was on -307:55
mdzKamion: but we already know that aptitude install ~tubuntu-desktop is buggy :-)07:55
Kamionmdz: how so?07:55
Kamionelmo_: -4 changes the wiki URL, -5 is cosmetic, so ...07:55
mdzKamion: is it not still doing that gs-esp weirdness?07:55
Kamionmdz: oh, is that aptitude's fault? I think I missed the resolution of that07:55
mdzKamion: I think it was aptitude and germinate having different ideas about resolving deps07:56
mdzKamion: and germinate seeming more reasonable in this case07:56
Kamionwell, compare against aptitude and check the differences by hand07:56
mdzKamion: perhaps ubuntu-meta should just use debootstrap to work out the package list?07:57
mdz(for base)07:57
mdzthat seems a bit more fragile when doing updates, though07:58
elmo_kamion: okay, well, is it pulling in dialog for you because of alsa-utils for you?07:58
elmo_it is for me, and should be pulling in whiptail instead07:58
Kamionelmo_: not here08:00
Kamionoh, dialog's in universe, so I won't be seeing it08:00
elmo_well, I dunno which one is doing it to be fair, lemme try and reduce it to a given Packages/Sources08:00
Kamionso you cat all the Packages and Sources together, is that right?08:00
elmo_all the components, for each arch yeah08:01
Kamionlftp rocks far too hard08:02
Kamionlftp archive.ubuntulinux.org:/ubuntu/dists/warty> zcat main/binary-i386/Packages.gz > main-Packages08:02
mdzyes it does08:02
Kamionthat just Should Not Work in an FTP client :)08:02
|trey|Out of curiosity, who do I praise about the Human icons?08:05
Kamionelmo_: OK, can reproduce after concatenating all the files08:11
Kamionelmo_: dialog is the first alternative, though ...08:12
elmo_well.. sure.. but it's pulling in whiptail for something else :)08:12
Kamionelmo_: and whiptail isn't explicitly seeded, it gets pulled in by other stuff08:12
Kamionif it were explicitly seeded it'd probably make the right decision08:13
Kamionthe only fix I can think of would be to defer all alternated-dependency resolution to a subsequent pass08:13
Kamionand pick some arbitrary minimal set08:13
elmo_well, I'm easy with either .. for  now, I can just hax0r the seed lists08:14
elmo_(err, either meaning, the other possiblity being to fix the packages)08:14
elmo_which is obviously no longer an optioin08:14
elmo_esp. X08:14
Kamionat the moment it just arbitrarily picks the first alternative if it's not already satisfied (which might either be by a seed or by whatever the processing order happens to be08:15
Kamionyou could also use a hint08:16
Kamioni.e. 'base whiptail' or whatever08:16
elmo_am I meant to have any hints?  I don't08:17
Kamionnot unless you wanted them08:17
Kamionthey're local seed overrides08:17
elmo_that worked, thanks08:18
elmo_kamion: hmm,e xcept for the gcc-3.2 chain of doom08:27
mdzany preferences for the firefox version number?08:27
Kamionyarrr, suppose I should spend a day on germinate hacking sometime then08:28
Kamionis it urgent (i.e. pre-warty)?08:28
elmo_kamion: no, doesn't matter, you just reminded me of it by talking about germinate08:28
Kamionah, ok, good08:28
mdzKamion: any exceptions or such in desktop that I need to worry about?09:00
mdzI've fixed up ubuntu-meta to check itself against debootstrap09:00
Kamionmdz: don't think so09:01
mdzKamion: new version at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mdz/temp/ubuntu-meta_0.1.tar.gz09:01
Kamionwill look later, about to get dragged out09:01
Kamionmdz: BTW, acx driver seems to load its firmware successfully with my new udeb09:01
mdzKamion: nice! can I test ipw2200 for you?09:02
Kamionmdz: lots of encouraging noises in the syslog, although it doesn't actually *work* for reasons undetermined09:02
Kamionmdz: are you happy to hack up an image yourself or do you want me to do it? I can give you an image later tonight09:03
mdzKamion: ah, I didn't realize you had a system with an ipw2200 to test09:03
mdzKamion: I can wait09:03
mdzI would like to get ubuntu-meta in ASAP though09:04
KamionI don't, but I can do the image nevertheless09:04
mdzKamion: oh, I thought your second comment was about ipw2200, but I guess you still meant acx09:04
Kamionah, yes, right09:05
Kamionwell, bunch of .old files in that package which I assume you'll remove09:05
mdzheh, just realized that a ton of people are going to remove ubuntu-desktop09:05
mdzbecause everyone uses totem-xine instead of totem-gstreamer09:05
mdzthat's like the FAQ of all FAQs on #ubuntu09:06
Kamionmdz: looks reasonable to me, although I haven't checked the package lists; the proof of whether it works is likely to be in users' reactions09:07
Kamionmdz: I'm scared of making the installer use it though; would rather have it stay with the task for now09:08
mdzKamion: oh, I completely agree09:08
mdzits only real purpose is to propagate additions to the seed lists09:08
Kamionmdz: would it be possible also to check that everything in ubuntu-desktop has a Task: ubuntu-desktop line?09:08
mdzI'm going to do the following test:09:08
mdzdebootstrap a fresh warty09:08
mdzinstall ubuntu-base and make sure no deps are unsatisfied09:08
|trey|Kamion: can't you make it depend one or the other (many packages do this)09:08
mdzaptitude install ~tubuntu-desktop09:08
mdzcheck that no deps are unsatisfied09:08
mdzI'll check the Task: headers too09:09
Kamion|trey|: don't understand what "it" refers to there09:09
|trey|it = ubuntu-desktop09:09
Kamion|trey|: -> mdz :-)09:09
mdzthat sort of misses the point09:09
Kamion|trey|: I'm just looking over his package before upload09:09
|trey|Kamion: I knew that  :)09:09
mdzthe idea is to have it pull in everything in the standard desktop set09:10
|trey|mdz: people need pr0n though, either figure out how we get pr0n via -gstreamer, or let us use -xine cuz it works  :)09:10
mdzeventually, totem-gstreamer will work as well as totem-xine or better (we hope), and then we can tell everyone to just install ubuntu-desktop and get back what we think is best as of that day09:10
mdzI don't even find totem-xine to work particularly well09:11
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mdzin terms of playing video streams found on the internet, mplayer is still king09:11
mdzfor all its awfulness09:11
|trey|mdz: if -gstreamer is listed first, it will be installed be default... but it makes sure people don't remove ubuntu-desktop, which will allow for easier management of packages for you all  :)09:11
mdzif people deviate from the desktop configuration, we respect their choice09:11
mdzbut it's all or nothing09:12
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|trey|mdz: "heh, just realized that a ton of people are going to remove ubuntu-desktop ; because everyone uses totem-xine instead of totem-gstreamer"  <-- just trying to make this not happen in a sensible way...09:13
=== Kamion heads off; back around 11
mdzKamion: thanks09:13
mdz|trey|: people _should_ remove desktop if they choose totem-xine over totem-gstreamer09:14
mdzthat's not even a supported package09:14
|trey|mdz: good point... but that isn't really respecting choice.. it makes their choice cause problems09:15
mdzit doesn't cause problems09:16
|trey|if you change package sets via ubuntu-desktop, it would over time, and if thats not the plan, the package would appear useless?09:17
mdzthat's an exaggeration09:17
|trey|(for instance, replacing fam with gamin could be done by a conflict and depends in ubuntu-desktop, if you did this, they wouldn't get the change)09:17
mdzas was my "everyone"09:17
mdzthe idea is not to force things on people, it's to provide a way for them to keep up if they want to09:18
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|trey|mdz: ok... I just think there should maybe be choices allowed within the package... not everyone has the same exact tastes etc, but would still follow the general set...09:19
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mdzlamont: ping?09:20
lamontmdz: yo09:52
lamontbut about to go to lunch... 09:53
lamontwindow obscured and all that... :-(09:53
mdzlamont: I need a firefox built on all warty architectures09:53
mdzlamont: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mdz/firefox/09:53
mdzshould keep the machines busy while you're at lunch :-)09:54
lamontbut not uploaded, yes?09:54
lamontbuilding.  will advise when I get back09:56
|trey|lamont = build master or whatever? (forget correct term)10:02
Keybukyou're too young to know the correct term for lamont :p10:05
hazmatis inotify in the ubuntu kernels?10:05
|trey|GNU is older then me I think   :(10:06
hazmati wanted to do some beagle development, and inotify in the kernel is a prereq at the moment10:06
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Keybukhazmat: inotify is just a *wee* bit under development10:06
|trey|I think announcement was Febuary? So by a month  8)10:06
Keybukheh, that makes you older than daniels, I think10:07
hazmatKeybuk, good point, but so's the linux kernel ;-)10:08
|trey|I wasted too much time during high school... could have been learning languages, instead was getting high  :/10:08
Keybukhazmat: heh, last time I played with that it needed a version of inotify rml hadn't actually released yet10:09
hazmatKeybuk, fun quote. "The _reality_ is that there is _no_ point in time where you and Linus allow for stabilization of the main tree prior to release. The release criteria has devolved to a point where we call it done when the stack of pancakes gets too high.10:09
hazmat-- Jeff Garzik "10:09
Keybukyeah I saw that :)10:09
hazmati'll see if i can get this patch to apply to the ubuntu kernel http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/rml/inotify/v2.6/0.13/10:10
Keybukthere's a few rather major security issues on the todo list for it, aren't there?10:10
Keybukplus there's no way to make udev make the device node when it needs to yet10:11
hazmatKeybuk, i'm fuzzy on the impl details, i've been following along from the perspective of wanting to work on beagle/dashboard, but my understanding if your using udev then its not an issue.. if your not the dev node needs to be managed by hand... re security.. dunno. i would hope it checks access against the watched10:17
|trey|Wierd question, I filed a bug report enhancement pertaining to the menu, it doesn't appear to be in the db anymore, why would that be?10:18
makomdz: you around?10:29
mdzmako: yep10:30
makomdz: i just saw your message to ubuntu-announce about the livecd10:34
makosend tuesday or wahtever10:34
makoi haven't been checking -announce daily for moderator requests10:34
makoso it didn't go out10:34
makotwo things10:34
makoapparently, neither has jeff10:34
makoso two things10:34
mako(1) should i sent it off on its way now?10:35
mdzfabbione: I just upgraded xserver-xfree86 on amd64 and it asked me the driver question and the keyboard question10:35
mdzmako: I was wondering why there were so few downloads of it10:35
mdzyes, it should go out now10:35
mako(2) since it's probabl just you, me, jeff, and mark that will be using that list, it's best to just poke me or cd me10:35
mdzI don't remember getting a message telling me it was moderated10:35
makomdz: i will write have procmail redirect those requests into my main canonical box10:36
makomdz: maybe a filter caught it.. 10:36
makoeverything on that list is going to be moderated10:36
makoincluding my own posts.. 10:36
makountil we get something like key-based auth10:36
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sivangcan anybody explain how to enable colors for c code in vim?10:37
makomdz: sent now10:37
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makomdz: in the future, don't hesitate to poke me10:38
mdzmako: I would have if I had realized it didn't go out :-)10:38
mdzin fact I would have approved it myself10:38
mdzjustdave: ping?10:39
justdavemdz pong10:39
mdzsivang: -> #ubuntu10:39
mdzjustdave: can you follow up on #1379?10:39
mdzfabbione: never mind, false alarm10:43
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seb128justdave: any news for the upstream status ? It would really help to sort the bug list11:10
justdaveseb128: I'll try to get in tonight. It should be pretty quick to throw in11:57

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