[12:00] <swoon> LinuxJones: ok now I got: gcc-version-check failed: ./usr/src/nv/conftest.sh: line 1: cc: command not found Could not compile gcc version-check.c   and ascs to ignore the check and continue or abort...
[12:00] <punkass_> lml, i do cuz i can modprobe ndiswrapper without error
[12:00] <LinuxJones> swoon, apt-get update && apt-get install build-essentials
[12:00] <punkass_> defendguin: do you have ndiswrapper-utils installed?
[12:00] <defendguin> sabdfl, im doing fine no problems here
[12:01] <defendguin> i used ndiswrapper -m to save the config
[12:01] <lml> punkass_: maybe the current package is missing the module so the one you allready had installed is still there but not compiled against another version of ndis?
[12:01] <defendguin> no i think i just have the wrapper
[12:01] <swoon> LinuxJones: brb
[12:01] <slarti> LinuxJones: why does ubuntu come with a /usr/src/rpm directory by default?
[12:01] <defendguin> what is included in the utils?
[12:02] <lml> defendguin: what do you mean? Do you want the file list?
[12:03] <defendguin> lml, well what binaries 
[12:03] <LinuxJones> slarti, I have no idea :D
[12:03] <swoon> LinuxJones, I get couldnt find package build-essentials could it be called something else?
[12:03] <punkass_> lml: /lib/modules/2.6.8.1-2-386/misc/ndiswrapper.ko
[12:04] <lml> defendguin: I do not know how to get that information?
[12:04] <slarti> LinuxJones: I'm following the discussion you're having with swoon and I'm about to install a new kernel.  One simple question, though.
[12:04] <lml> punkass_: Such a file is not present on my system installing the current ndiswrapper-utils package. Probably why modprobe does not work ;-)
[12:05] <defendguin> lml, yeah
[12:05] <LinuxJones> swoon, are you running amd64 ?
[12:05] <LinuxJones> slarti, sure
[12:05] <swoon> LinuxJones: yes I am
[12:05] <swoon> why?
[12:05] <punkass_> originally i didnt know there was an ndiswrapper package so installed from the source
[12:06] <lml> punkass_: I do not even have a misc directory.
[12:06] <defendguin> i installed from source as well
[12:06] <defendguin> you should build it for your kernel
[12:06] <LinuxJones> swoon, argh someone had a bunch of trouble getting nvidia installed last night. I don't have a 64 so I can't help out sorry :(
[12:06] <swoon> LinuxJones: please dont give up on me yet, if I dont get this driver installed I  cannot use X at all
[12:07] <punkass_> LinuxJones: there is no 64bit nvidia-glx package...yet
[12:07] <lml> defenguin: Ok, so the -utils extension really means everything but the acutal module then? Why then have the package in the first place?
[12:07] <slarti> LinuxJones: I just ran apt-get install linux-source and part of the output reads: Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main linux-source-2.6.8.1 2.6.8.1-12
[12:07] <LinuxJones> swoon, are you using the restricted repository ?
[12:07] <swoon> punkass_ there is another 64 bit nvidia linux driver though...
[12:07] <swoon> LinuxJones: Im using whatever the default did for me
[12:07] <slarti> LinuxJones: what does the 2.6.8.1-12 refer to exactly?
[12:07] <punkass_> oh
[12:08] <defendguin> lml, no idea i didnt package it
[12:08] <LinuxJones> punkass_, he is trying to build from nvidia source.
[12:08] <punkass_> ah i see
[12:08] <LinuxJones> slarti, that is a directory containing the kernel source
[12:08] <swoon> LinuxJones: am I using the correct repository?
[12:08] <LinuxJones> swoon, run synaptic
[12:09] <swoon> LinuxJones: can I run synaptic from command ilne? remember I cannot use X now... command only
[12:09] <liran> how i can install gtk2 ?
[12:09] <slarti> LinuxJones: I guess what I meant is what exactly does the '-12' refer to.  I've been told (by Kamion?) that it is not a version number, but something else.
[12:09] <LinuxJones> swoon, argh hehe
[12:09] <lml> defendguin: I am off to bed now, so I will have to look into this in the weekend.
[12:09] <defendguin> :) im sure you will figure it out
[12:10] <lml> defendguin & punkass_: thanx for the help.
[12:10] <slarti> swoon: synaptic is a gui front-end for apt (and apt-get)
[12:10] <slarti> swoon: by using apt-get, you are essentially using a command line form of synaptic
[12:10] <LinuxJones> swoon, nano /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:10] <punkass_> np....now i wish i could get my wireless working :(
[12:11] <swoon> LinuxJones: done
[12:11] <defendguin> punkass_, what seems to be the problem?
[12:11] <guptan> Hi Room
[12:11] <punkass_> i can set iwconfig and it shows my essid and key
[12:11] <guptan> from where can I get ximian-artwork for ubuntu?
[12:12] <punkass_> but when i run,   ifup wlan0
[12:12] <slarti> LinuxJones: oh, that's great!  i didn't know there was a free version of pico!
[12:12] <punkass_> i just get a bunch of DHCPDISCOVER messages then it times out
[12:12] <LinuxJones> swoon, my repos are >> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty main restricted universe adjust accordingly for your amd64 tree.
[12:12] <LoneTech> punkass: ifup is part of ifupdown, and will read /etc/network/interfaces. It'll set up anything put there, and it should be possible to put essid there too.
[12:13] <LinuxJones> slarti, ya, btw I thought -12  was a minor release number
[12:13] <LoneTech> are your settings still the same in iwconfig after the attempted ifup?
[12:13] <punkass_> yes i know...the frusterating thing is that i updated the system over wireless...then reboot...then no more wireless
[12:13] <defendguin> punkass i never run ifup wlan0
[12:13] <punkass_> i try dhclient wlan0   and get the same thing
[12:13] <defendguin> once i set the config i just run dhclient with no arguments
[12:14] <defendguin> maybe you are setting the settings wrong
[12:14] <LoneTech> many cards can only change the iwconfig settings while down, so you'd want to be sure nothing comes between iwconfig and ifconfig up.
[12:14] <punkass_> but like i say...it was fine right before the update
[12:15] <punkass_> all i did was update and reboot
[12:15] <Bliksem> im a linux noob... I need to be able to mount my fat32 partition as user, and access all files and folders within it
[12:15] <slarti> LinuxJones: ah, good.  that's what i thought too, but Kamion seemed to think differently.  shrug.
[12:15] <swoon> LinuxJones: it seems mine is the same other than "universe" should I add that?
[12:15] <itsugas> hello
[12:15] <Bliksem> ive managed to mount it, mut cant open folders within the mounted drive
[12:15] <Bliksem> *but
[12:16] <itsugas> hay alguien que hable espaol?
[12:17] <punkass_> defendguin: after   ifup  wlan0     the Essid is still set but not the key
[12:17] <swoon> LinuxJones: are you sure its called build-essentials ?
[12:17] <punkass_> swoon: no s
[12:17] <defendguin> hmmmm
[12:17] <defendguin> i havent been using a key
[12:17] <swoon> ugg no wonder then
[12:17] <punkass_> :)
[12:17] <defendguin> maybe this is your problem
[12:17] <LinuxJones> swoon, build-essentials should be in main, I don't kow what is going on.
[12:17] <punkass_> could be
[12:18] <defendguin> try with wep turned off
[12:18] <Bliksem> please help, how can i access the folders on my mounted drive? how can users get permission?
[12:18] <swoon> LinuxJones: its build-essential :\
[12:18] <LoneTech> that reminds me, is wpasupplicant integrated into ubuntu?
[12:18] <LinuxJones> swoon, ya that's it :D OOPS
[12:19] <tortoise__> when i put in a usb memory stick it registers on the device manager and loads the vfat module but the icon doesnt appear, anyone know why??
[12:19] <swoon> brb
[12:20] <punkass_> defendguin: thats it...disabled the wep key on the router and ding..got a connection
[12:20] <tortoise__> what services are needed to hal a usb memory stick?
[12:21] <punkass_> defendguin: but i need to be able to use a wep key :)
[12:21] <defendguin> punkass_ well at least you know where the problem is
[12:22] <punkass_> true enough
[12:22] <clee> daniels: ping
[12:23] <liran> how do i do print screen ?
[12:23] <liran> import does`nt exists
[12:24] <punkass_> Computer > Take Screenshot
[12:24] <LoneTech> gimp normally has a screen capture function. import would be an imagemagick command. the ancient X method is using xwd.
[12:24] <mjr> liran, hm? Computer / Sc... right, what punk said
[12:24] <clee> or, the print-screen key on your keyboard
[12:24] <LoneTech> and others know ubuntu much better than I (:
[12:25] <calc> clee: hi
[12:25] <new_ubuntu_user> Hi, I was wondering if anyone has gotten Suspend or Hibernation to work on a notebook using Ubuntu?
[12:26] <clee> hiya, calc
[12:26] <calc> clee: i noticed you are on the placestostay list but aren't going yourself?
[12:26] <clee> calc: well, if somebody comes to my place, then I'll be going
[12:26] <clee> calc: If nobody wants to, then I'm not :)
[12:26] <calc> heh
[12:26] <mjr> by the way, my print screen doesn't work, even if I reset the screenshot keybinding to it
[12:26] <calc> clee: so you want someone to come to your place to give you a reason to go? ;)
[12:26] <mjr> wonder if it's a bug that manifests on my finnish keyboard
[12:27] <clee> calc: I didn't say that. :)
[12:27] <clee> mjr: finnish? that's vierd.
[12:27] <calc> heh
[12:27] <punkass_> defendguin: well if i hard code the wep in   interfaces   it works
[12:27] <defendguin> sweet
[12:27] <defendguin> go with it
[12:27] <LoneTech> new_ubuntu_user: yes, for my laptop, APM only, I just added a script to virtually eject/insert the PC Card on suspends.
[12:27] <punkass_> yes but i need it to be mobile
[12:28] <punkass_> and my boss doesnt want to be editing the interface file when he is sittin in an airport :)
[12:28] <LoneTech> punkass: well, that's highly dependent on the state of your wireless driver then... something like waproamd might help
[12:28] <new_ubuntu_user> LoneTech: My PC uses ACPI not APM
[12:29] <LoneTech> new_ubuntu_user: well, good luck, I don't have much experience with that.
[12:29] <punkass_> LoneTech: well it was working
[12:29] <defendguin> punkass_, i wish there was a gui tool to scan for interfaces and then configure the card to use that interface
[12:29] <punkass_> defendguin: i made one :)
[12:29] <new_ubuntu_user> LoneTech: Thanks anyway.
[12:30] <defendguin> oh you did?
[12:30] <defendguin> can i see?
[12:30] <punkass_> sure
[12:30] <Bliksem> how do i get full access to a mounted fat32 drive when logged in as a user?
[12:30] <Bliksem> <---- linux newbie
[12:30] <punkass_> http://punkass.bookerb.com/2stepdh/pyfi.tar.gz
[12:30] <defendguin> maybe a screenshot or two? or did you have a debian package?
[12:31] <punkass_> its just a small python app
[12:31] <punkass_> it even loads ndis if needed
[12:31] <LoneTech> Bliksem: it'd have to be mounted for access by that user. I think ubuntu has some scripts in place for that, but I'm not in front of my ubuntu box.
[12:31] <punkass_> you will have to edit the top of the py file
[12:31] <defendguin> punkass_ it needs to be run with root to do anything?
[12:31] <punkass_> yes sudo
[12:32] <defendguin> edit the top of it?
[12:32] <punkass_> open it and u will see a couple config lines u will need to change
[12:32] <punkass_> at the top
[12:33] <defendguin> will do
[12:34] <Jisao> Where can I find the (serious) explanation of the Super Cow Powers used by aptitude?
[12:34] <swoon> uggh ok Im getting another error now after finally installing build-essential :  If you are using a linux 2.6 kernel please make sure you have  configured kernel sources matching your kernel istalled on your system.  do I not have the proper source? do I maybe not have amd 64 kernel source?
[12:35] <LoneTech> good example of where you'd want to separate privileges.. the only reason that script runs as root is so iwconfig can do its work. would be neater to have it request it off something like sudo.
[12:35] <LoneTech> swoon: basically you want apt-get install kernel-headers-`uname -r`
[12:36] <mdz> LoneTech: s/kernel/linux/
[12:36] <LoneTech> but then making things look for that might be another story
[12:36] <LoneTech> thanks, mdz. too used to debian.
[12:37] <swoon> LoneTech:  can I do a search for available kernel-headers?
[12:37] <LoneTech> swoon: sure, just use apt-cache search whatever
[12:37] <defendguin> punkass_, how well does this work? and why isnt there already anything like it?
[12:37] <punkass_> lol
[12:38] <punkass_> there is a few
[12:38] <punkass_> wifi radar, and netapplet
[12:38] <Bliksem> ok well i'll give mounting a rest, will it be a mission getting my 5.1 set up?
[12:38] <defendguin> the netapplet kinda sucked for me
[12:38] <Bliksem> ive got an audgy 2 btw...
[12:38] <punkass_> i am in the process of turning mine into an applet
[12:38] <swoon> LoneTech:  how can I check what kernel-headers are now installed
[12:38] <punkass_> it think it works pretty good
[12:38] <punkass_> only works with dhcp right nwo
[12:38] <punkass_> er now
[12:39] <defendguin> thats fine
[12:39] <punkass_> but its scans when it starts.. finds wireless networks...and remebers wep keys if connection is sucessfu
[12:39] <LoneTech> swoon: "dpkg -l 'linux-headers-*'" might work. you could probably do all these tasks from synaptic or aptitude too.
[12:39] <punkass_> LoneTech: swoon has no X :)
[12:40] <LoneTech> ah
[12:40] <LoneTech> well, aptitude is my personal favourite, and doesn't require X.
[12:40] <punkass_> true
[12:43] <swoon> wow trying to get this kernel-headers gives me alsorts of unment dependencies... firs kernel-headers-2.6.7-5-amd64  is one, then kernel-headers-2.6.7.5 is another, and now kernel-kbuild-2.6-1 ! should I get all these dependencies?
[12:43] <swoon> can I tell it to automatically get dependencies?
[12:43] <LoneTech> apt should normally select dependencies automatically
[12:44] <LoneTech> do you have half-installed packages or something? "apt-get -f install" tries to clean that up.
[12:44] <goatboy> swoon: you want linux-headers, not kernel-headers.
[12:44] <defendguin> punkass hmm not bad
[12:45] <defendguin> i like it as a matter of fact
[12:45] <punkass_> hehe thanks...
[12:45] <swoon> brb
[12:45] <punkass_> my first attempt at python/pygtk
[12:46] <defendguin> heh
[12:46] <defendguin> punkass when i tried netapplet i didnt see any icon for it in my notification area it was just a blank space
[12:47] <phosphorgreen> lo every1
[12:47] <defendguin> punkass would you like some sort of an icon for this app?
[12:47] <slarti> the default warty kernel is 2.6.8.1-3.  i would like to have 2.6.8.1-12.  i've already downloaded and untarred the source.  i have gcc and kernel-package, but i don't know what kernel-package is for.  any ideas?
[12:47] <evilmegaman> hi
[12:48] <swoon> ok after installing the linux-header proper one, I still get that error:  If you are using a linux 2.6 kernel please make sure you have configured kernel sources matching your kernel l istalled on your system. do I not have the proper source? do I maybe not have amd 64 kernel source
[12:48] <phosphorgreen> i have 1 question. Running warty. My nautilus doesn't detect blank cdr's, any idea why?
[12:48] <swoon> dismiss last sentence in that post
[12:48] <Bliksem> 5.1 sound on audigy 2? this gonna be a mission to get right?
[12:48] <evilmegaman> I am still having problems with (any) linux and not recognizing my cd drive even though it recognized it two days ago
[12:48] <evilmegaman> I can't install linux now
[12:48] <phosphorgreen> it recognises the drive. both drives i have are found fine
[12:49] <slarti> just go back two days any time you want to use your computer.
[12:49] <LoneTech> evilmegaman: is it properly connected then?
[12:49] <phosphorgreen> i can go to disks in nautilus, and if there is something in cdrom1 ,it'll mount it
[12:49] <evilmegaman> Yes because it works in windows
[12:49] <swoon> LoneTech: after installing the proper linux-headers was there anything else I needed to do?
[12:50] <LoneTech> swoon: depends on what you're trying to do. most things don't need the kernel headers at all, and a very few want the full source.
[12:50] <LoneTech> many of those that do need the headers also need to be told somehow where they are
[12:50] <swoon> LoneTech: Im compiling nvidia driver... amd 64...
[12:51] <phosphorgreen> evilmegaman: how are your drives connected?
[12:51] <LoneTech> good luck. I must go to bed now
[12:51] <swoon> this is nuts, I simply cannot get this thing compiled@
[12:51] <swoon> !
[12:52] <swoon> and without it I cannot use X!! its driving me nuts
[12:52] <phosphorgreen> sorry swoon i didnt hear the start of your convo. what r u trying to compile?
[12:52] <swoon> phosphorgreen: the amd 64 nvidia driver
[12:53] <phosphorgreen> hmm i gave up on it. I installed ubuntu-i386 and i lived happily ever after
[12:53] <evilmegaman> Phosphorgreen I have no idea how the drive is connected
[12:53] <phosphorgreen> evilmegaman: find out how it is connected. ensure it is set to bootable in the BIOS of your PC.
[12:54] <defendguin> punkass_ would you like me to draw you an icon for your little app
[12:54] <punkass_> sorry defendguin was on the phone...
[12:54] <evilmegaman> it is bootable. but how do I find out how it's connected? open the computer up?
[12:54] <phosphorgreen> swoon: if you really want to install the driver I believe you need to download the kernel headers, kernel source and let the nvidia.com driver bin file compile the correct module. Is that what you have done?
[12:55] <slarti> swoon: I think LinuxJones meant build-essential, not build-essentials.
[12:55] <punkass_> you can if you like, i have one in the works....but yours could turn out better
[12:55] <evilmegaman> btw it's a SONY DVD RW DW-U18A
[12:55] <slarti> swoon: sudo apt-get install build-essential
[12:55] <Bliksem> how do you get the kernel sources? is there an apt-get ???
[12:55] <swoon> phosphorgreen: yes thats what Ive been trying to do and I get this error:  If you are using a linux 2.6 kernel please make sure you have configured kernel sources matching your kernel istalled on your system. do I not have the proper source? do I maybe not have amd 64 kernel source?
[12:55] <phosphorgreen> evilmegaman: if your using an IDE drive, then you should be able to see it listed on boot (before OS startup). Try using the pause key if it flashes by toof sat
[12:55] <phosphorgreen> too fast
[12:55] <swoon> slarti: yes thanks Ive gotten it
[12:56] <defendguin> punkass_ could you show me what you have so far?
[12:56] <phosphorgreen> swoon: are you entirely sure that the CD you have is bootable?
[12:56] <punkass_> cant right now..im at work
[12:56] <defendguin> oh ok
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> well adios people, gotta go.
[12:57] <defendguin> i dont see either wifi radar or netapplet on apt :(
[12:57] <evilmegaman> Ok thanks
[12:57] <swoon> phosphorgreen:  um was the CD question for me?
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> yes swoon
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> no swoon
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> oops
[12:57] <swoon> ah
[12:57] <jsubl2> swoon, what driver you after
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> it was for evilmegama
[12:57] <phosphorgreen> l8rs
[12:58] <punkass_> wifi radar didnt work well for me, it uses dhcpcd..
[12:58] <swoon> jsubl2: Im trying to install/compile the nvidia amd 64 driver
[12:58] <defendguin> oh
[12:58] <defendguin> and we use dhclient
[12:58] <punkass_> theantix: has made a dep of netapplet i believe...but i had the same 'no icon' thing when i tried it
[12:58] <punkass_> yup
[12:58] <defendguin> yeah
[12:59] <jsubl2> swoon, oh.  they don't have the linux-restricted-modules package for amd64
[12:59] <defendguin> what kind of an icon did you have in mind?
[12:59] <cog> did my first ubuntu install the other day.
[01:00] <punkass_> well i was just thinkin some kinda box with antenna thing or somethin
[01:00] <swoon> jsubl2: Im trying to compile not using a package
[01:00] <cog> i'm used to having to read through piles of stuff, find numbers on motherboards and read stuff off cards, this sucker was so easy as to be boring.
[01:00] <defendguin> i was envisioning some concentric circles
[01:01] <cog> all i did was watch princess mononoke and press enter a couple times.
[01:02] <punkass_> well go wild...if its slick, i may just use it :)
[01:02] <swoon> can anyone tell me how to remove/uninstall the linux-source, and linux-headers ? I think I may have the wrong ones... want to start over
[01:02] <punkass_> apt-get remove linux-source
[01:02] <defendguin> sweet
[01:02] <defendguin> svg icon is ook?
[01:02] <punkass_> sure
[01:03] <cog> which brings me to the point at hand... this sucker needs to install tuxracer first. and then you can play that while its installing.
[01:03] <punkass_> got a lot of work first tho to send it out into the world
[01:03] <swoon> punkass_ and to check if it was removed?
[01:03] <defendguin> punkass_ its still nice to have something to recognize the project by
[01:03] <punkass_> ture
[01:03] <punkass_> er true
[01:04] <defendguin> and have somehting for a launcher instead of using something else
[01:04] <cog> are you guys making a new logo?
[01:04] <swoon> punkass_ ?
[01:04] <defendguin> cog, for punkass's lettle wifi app
[01:05] <punkass_> /usr/src/linux should be empty
[01:05] <swoon> punkass_ ok then that didnt work, can I remove it manually somehow?
[01:05] <evilmegaman> it seems like my bios is perfect..
[01:05] <punkass_> well i just use a launcher using gksudo so i get a root password box
[01:06] <swoon> punkass_ can I just rm name all the stuff in /usr/src ?
[01:07] <defendguin> punkass thats what i did but i gave the launcher an icon of some app i dont use
[01:07] <punkass_> /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.8.1 should not be there
[01:07] <punkass_> yeah that should work
[01:09] <swoon> punkass_ yeah rm the files should work?
[01:09] <myk> does anyone have ACPI suspend working at all?
[01:11] <punkass_> swoon: yes or to be safe you could do     cp /usr/src/linux-xxxx    /usr/src/linux-xxxxOLD
[01:13] <liran_> I got free space that isn`t work as  partition ,how can i add it to my partition that is working ?
[01:15] <liran_> any one?
[01:16] <swoon> punkass_  I just did a: apt-cache search linux-source and only returned linux-patch-debian-2.6.8.1 and linux-source-2.6.8.1 linux kernel source for version 2.6.8.1 with debian patches,  uname -r though gives me 2.6.9.1-2-amd64-generic
[01:16] <swoon> ? what do I need to get for my kernel?
[01:17] <punkass_> swoon: you have a non ubuntu kernel?
[01:17] <swoon> punkass_ not that I know of? I mean I installed from ubuntu cd, and updated of the net...
[01:18] <punkass_> hmmm i just did an update an i still have the 2.6.8.1 kernel
[01:18] <Phr0stByte> swoon: you updated with Debian sources in your /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:18] <punkass_> doh
[01:19] <punkass_> Phr0stByte: what do u code in?
[01:19] <Phr0stByte> C++
[01:19] <swoon> oh I think I apt-update or whatever with Debian sources, but that doesnt actually update everything does it?
[01:19] <punkass_> ah k..just had a python question :)
[01:19] <swoon> help?
[01:20] <Phr0stByte> I'm doing a game with the SDL libraries
[01:20] <punkass_> cool
[01:20] <swoon> please help me, Im dying here...
[01:21] <Phr0stByte> punkass_: http://www.scapegoatsoftware.com/img/gostop-menu-1.jpg
[01:21] <swoon> do I need to reinstall ubuntu or something insane like that?
[01:22] <mg> just tried to install ubuntu on an lvm partition (so i can combine disks later) but the installer complains about using lvm for root and boot ...
[01:22] <swoon> well brb, 
[01:23] <mg> if i can't put root on lvm does that mean i need partitions for everything else, i.e. /usr, /var, /home, /tmp etc?
[01:24] <evilmegaman> hello
[01:24] <evilmegaman> Can anyone help with the cd rom drive not being recognized?
[01:25] <swoon> hrmm Phr0stByte  do I need to reinstall ubuntu? Im trying to get the proper source, headers whatever to compile amd 64 nvidia with the amd64 nvidia installer...
[01:26] <jsubl2> swoon  apt-cache search linux-headers
[01:26] <defendguin> punkass i think this little icon looks pretty slick 
[01:27] <defendguin> one or two more adjustments
[01:27] <swoon> jsubl2: uname -r returns: 2.6.8.1-2-amd-64-generic, and I have linux-headers-2.6.8.1-3-amd64-generic in /usr/src
[01:27] <swoon> is that all I need?
[01:28] <swoon> I need the kernel source rirght?
[01:29] <swoon> jsubl2: ?
[01:29] <swoon> ...
[01:29] <cog> defendguin, i was racing you, but mine looks like an advertisment for karaeoke.
[01:30] <goatboy> swoon: no, you don't.
[01:30] <goatboy> swoon: just the headers.
[01:30] <defendguin> lol
[01:30] <defendguin> mine is a little red ball with some circles around it
[01:30] <swoon> goatboy: well when I try to use the installer to compile with only the headers I get this error: unable to find the kernel source tree for the current running kernel
[01:31] <merriam> evilmegaman: how is it connected?  just ata to the motherboard?
[01:31] <cog> mine was a ball on a stick with some half circles.
[01:31] <mdz> swoon: make sure you have the same version installed as your kernel
[01:31] <defendguin> maybe instead of circles i could use crescent circles
[01:31] <goatboy> wait, you installed headers for linux-headers-2.6.8.1-3-amd64-generic and you're running 2.6.8.1-2-amd-64-generic?
[01:31] <mdz> swoon: ah, you already said you didn't
[01:31] <mdz> swoon: sudo apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r`
[01:32] <swoon> goatboy I tried that
[01:32] <mdz> swoon: you could also wait until monday, when Mithrandir has said he will make this work out of the box
[01:33] <swoon> mdz, then I dont have X until monday
[01:33] <swoon> hang on
[01:33] <mdz> swoon: if you want to do it the hard way, I gave you the command you need to run
[01:34] <defendguin> hmmm
[01:35] <swoon_> yah mdz, goatboy, with apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -f` I get: Couldnt find package linux-headers-2.6.8.1-2-amd64-generic
[01:35] <mdz> swoon_: apt-get install linux-amd64-generic to get the latest kernel
[01:35] <mdz> swoon_: then reboot
[01:35] <mdz> swoon_: then try again
[01:35] <mdz> the kernel you're running no longer exists; it's old
[01:36] <swoon_> ok let me try, I have disconnect here real quick
[01:41] <defendguin> cog, punkass_  my crappy artwork http://www.cs.uno.edu/~jsunseri/ScreenShots/pyfi.png
[01:42] <defendguin> it could be a lot better  but thats what i seem to be going after
[01:45] <booger> I got k3b up and running but now it burns, pauses, then burns which makes creating a cd take too long
[01:45] <booger> Anyone else running into this?
[01:46] <cog> defendguin, punkass_ my crappy artwork http://graeme.is-a-geek.org/wifi.png
[01:47] <defendguin> hmmm
[01:47] <defendguin> yes
[01:47] <defendguin> color is good
[01:47] <booger> I had the same problem in Gentoo
[01:47] <defendguin> booger, never had that problem
[01:47] <booger> what fixed it was I had to diable a chipset within kernel 2.6
[01:47] <hazmat> how does one source compile a package and its depedencies with apt?
[01:48] <housetier> hazmat, apt-get --help :D
[01:48] <mdz> hazmat: google apt howto
[01:48] <booger> I believe it was a generic ide driver was enabled by default
[01:48] <sil^> Is there a working net install for Ubuntu? 
[01:49] <mdz> booger: add the specific chipset module to /etc/modules ahead of ide-generic
[01:49] <mdz> sil^: yes
[01:49] <toyo_school> hello all
[01:49] <booger> damn, good idea mdz
[01:49] <booger> I'll try it
[01:50] <sil^> mdz: Cool (I was worried I'd have to back-construct one from d-i.) Kamion mentioned it today, but I'm not having a lot of luck finding it: where should I be looking?
[01:53] <NoStress> hi
[01:53] <hazmat> mdz, its not clear from the howto (thanks for the tip) if i'm installing a suite of software from source (no debs for my platform) if i have to manually build each one in order of deps.. ie. if apt-get build-dep  is intelligent enough to apt-get -b source of the dependencies and install them
[01:53] <evilmegaman> can I install ubuntu with the live cd?
[01:53] <hazmat> one way to find out i guess
[01:53] <booger> mdz, I was going to mock compile my kernel but theres nothing in /usr/src??
[01:53] <mdz> sil^: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[01:53] <booger> I need a list of all modules, I have a via chipset
[01:54] <booger> I can't remember the exact mod name
[01:54] <mdz> hazmat: you'll need to do them one at a time
[01:54] <mdz> booger: via82cxxx
[01:54] <slarti> mdz: why is there a /usr/src/rpm in warty?
[01:54] <booger> beautiful
[01:54] <mdz> slarti: LSB
[01:54] <slarti> mdz: ?
[01:55] <mdz> slarti: http://www.google.com/search?q=lsb
[01:55] <evilmegaman> can I install ubuntu from the live cd?
[01:55] <mdz> evilmegaman: no, not as such
[01:55] <evilmegaman> :(
[01:56] <mdz> I never cease to be flattered by the high expectations placed on such a young distribution :-)
[01:56] <evilmegaman> Why won't warty work with my cdrom drive but freebsd fedora and gentoo do?
[01:56] <NoStress> i've just try ubuntu, but it didn't detect 1 of my 2 netcard, so i add the module manualy and config it with ifconfig, but...
[01:57] <evilmegaman> oh knoppix works too
[01:57] <NoStress> i've an error while loading the networkconfig tool
[01:57] <evilmegaman> but mandrake gets the same problem
[01:57] <NoStress> it can't load my config and close
[01:58] <NoStress> how can i fix the config ?
[01:58] <mdz> evilmegaman: impossible to say without a description of the problem
[01:58] <evilmegaman> oh
[01:58] <mdz> NoStress: if it is a PCI card, please file a bug saying which module you loaded and providing the output of "lspci" and "lspci -n" and we'll arrange for it to be autodetected
[01:59] <evilmegaman> I get an error saying no cdrom drive found or similar to that when in the install cd
[01:59] <mdz> evilmegaman: are you sure the CD was burned without errors?
[02:00] <evilmegaman> I think so..
[02:00] <evilmegaman> how would I check?
[02:00] <NoStress> mdz: i'll do it, can you help me on fixing the config of the ubuntu netconf tool?
[02:01] <mdz> NoStress: I can't, sorry
[02:01] <cog> defendguin, punkass_ more more more crappy artwork http://graeme.is-a-geek.org/pyfi.png
[02:02] <cog> methinks this is a good theme for the whole thing though.
[02:02] <cog> it needs a better python, but the mind control rays are the best.
[02:03] <defendguin> eeeeek
[02:03] <defendguin> eeeek
[02:03] <defendguin> are you smoking crack?
[02:03] <cog> what! it's brilliant!
[02:04] <GOwin> has anyone tried egroupware on ubuntu?
[02:04] <cog> first i was all, lets make a wifi python! and then once i got the crescents around it... it was just a matter of time untill it started controlling peoples minds.
[02:05] <defendguin> cog, the language that it was coded in shouldnt matter
[02:05] <defendguin> hold on ill brb something wrong with xchat
[02:07] <defendguin> haha
[02:07] <defendguin> i used the wifi scanner and i found another network that im on
[02:07] <defendguin> must be nextdoor
[02:07] <defendguin> lol
[02:08] <sil^> mdz: cheers for the pointer to the net install stuff.
[02:09] <defendguin> at least i think it isnt my network
[02:10] <defendguin> :( nope i guess not
[02:12] <defendguin> i wonder why my router would be broadcasting 2 different essids
[02:12] <cog> on the idea of the mind-control python.. the thing is called pyfi. after all.
[02:12] <cog> but i concede the point. 
[02:12] <cog> its better to have it represent what it does rather than how it does it.
[02:13] <cog> its not going to stop me from drawing these suckers now that i'm on a roll though.
[02:14] <defendguin> lol
[02:14] <Phr0stByte> cog: you got a drawing tablet?
[02:14] <defendguin> it has to be something that will look good even when it is small
[02:16] <cog> Phr0stByte, nope, got a mouse.
[02:17] <cog> defendguin, you and your stinking rUles! i want icons that only look good underwater!
[02:17] <cog> um..
[02:17] <AndyFitz> someone mentioned icons ?
[02:17] <AndyFitz> i sensed it
[02:18] <cog> wificons actually.
[02:18] <cog> and/or pycons
[02:18] <Phr0stByte> cog: damn - I got a Wacom drawing tablet that I have been dying to get working...
[02:18] <Phr0stByte> cog: no success for over a month
[02:18] <defendguin> AndyFitz, nothing too interesting
[02:18] <defendguin> just drawing icons for pyfi
[02:18] <cog> sacrafice chickens not yourself, there's no point if you're not there to enjoy it.
[02:19] <AndyFitz> :) just convenient timing to enter chat
[02:19] <defendguin> lol
[02:19] <defendguin> AndyFitz, my attempts http://www.cs.uno.edu/~jsunseri/ScreenShots/pyfi.png  
[02:19] <LinuxJones> what's pyfi ?
[02:20] <AndyFitz> big props for using SVG defendguin :)
[02:21] <defendguin> AndyFitz, you know i only use svg
[02:21] <defendguin> LinuxJones, a little wireless config tool punkass made
[02:22] <AndyFitz> and you're a better person for it defendguin :) http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/inkscape.png    http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/aboutwip.svg
[02:22] <AndyFitz> been mucking about with ideas for the inkscape .40 about screen
[02:22] <cog> holy shi
[02:22] <cog> that's ummm awesome.
[02:23] <defendguin> blah blah blah anyone can do that
[02:23] <AndyFitz> blanko de negro  - when colours are too good for you
[02:25] <cog> whatever defendguin, i like it.
[02:25] <Phr0stByte> Any1 here have a Wacom drawing tablet?
[02:26] <AndyFitz> i have a 17" intuous  with a canvass mouse and no pen... i lost it at my old workplace
[02:27] <Phr0stByte> AndyFitz: I have a Graphire3 (USB) I cant get working....
[02:27] <Phr0stByte> (in LInux)
[02:28] <AndyFitz> i havent used my tablet since using my pen 2 years ago. I never set it up it on linux
[02:28] <Phr0stByte> AndyFitz: If you can help me, I'll get you the pen from work
[02:28] <Phr0stByte> damn
[02:28] <AndyFitz> damn straight damn
[02:28] <AndyFitz> msg jimmac on irc.freenode ;)
[02:29] <Phr0stByte> ?
[02:30] <AndyFitz> he uses his tablet with the gimp
[02:30] <AndyFitz> http://susefaq.sourceforge.net/howto/graphire.html
[02:31] <AndyFitz> this tutorial will help alot
[02:32] <AndyFitz> its for Suse but i dont think it mentions anything suse specific
[02:32] <AndyFitz> however there are other tutorial links at the bottom for setting up your graphire
[02:33] <AndyFitz> http://gug.sunsite.dk/tutorials/ayoros1/ - would be good
[02:34] <AndyFitz> its short and sweet
[02:34] <AndyFitz> oh but its 2.4 kernel related :-/
[02:39] <slarti> i'm building a kernel... what's the difference between fakeroot and sudo?
[02:42] <cujosuperfly> are mouse gestures installed by default?
[02:42] <cujosuperfly> with firefox
[02:42] <AndyFitz> cujosuperfly: nope
[02:43] <jdub> slarti: using sudo (to root) means you're actually building it as root, fakeroot means you're not.
[02:43] <jdub> slarti: fakeroot is waaaay preferable.
[02:43] <tseng> fakeroot rocks.
[02:44] <cujosuperfly> hmm.  i just installed ubuntu the other day and whenever i'm using firefox i get some weird behavior when i move my pointer.  i have a laptop, so maybe its a touchpad thing.  
[02:44] <jdub> cujosuperfly: that'd be due to the synaptic touchpad defaults
[02:44] <cujosuperfly> my guess is that somehow tapping the touchpad is mapped to the "3rd" mouse button
[02:44] <cujosuperfly> jdub - how can i change that
[02:44] <jdub> what happens if you type in 'synclient -l'?
[02:45] <swoon_> mdz still there?
[02:45] <slarti> jdub: why is fakeroot preferable?
[02:45] <nuge> does fakeroot work for you guys when doing a make-kpkg?
[02:45] <cujosuperfly> "Can't access shared memory area. SHMConfig disabled?"
[02:45] <jdub> slarti: because it means you're not building stuff as root (which is dangerous)
[02:46] <jdub> cujosuperfly: ahr
[02:46] <jdub> cujosuperfly: ok, so, in your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file
[02:46] <cujosuperfly> yeah
[02:46] <jdub> under the inputdevice section for your touchpad
[02:46] <jdub> add the following line:
[02:46] <jdub>         Option          "SHMConfig"             "true"
[02:46] <slarti> jdub: dangerous in what way?  is it only dangerous during the build process or does it somehow (?) make the program being built more dangerous?
[02:47] <jdub> slarti: during the build process -> it could do anything
[02:47] <jdub> ie. someone could put rm -rf /dev in their makefile
[02:47] <jdub> or worse
[02:48] <cujosuperfly> i'm guessing i need to restart x now
[02:48] <cujosuperfly> bbl
[02:49] <slarti> jdub: yeah, i see what you mean.  i don't yet understand how fakeroot gets around this, but i can figure that out later.  i'm building a kernel for a newly installed ubuntu system, so i'm not worried about losing anything.
[02:49] <swoon_> damn it Im trying to install this damn nvidia driver I get this error: The kernel header file '/lib/modules/2.6.8.2-1-amd64-generic/build/include/linux/kernel.h' does not exist. the most likley reason for this is that the kernel source path '/lib/modules/2.blah-generic/build' is incorrect... help please?
[02:50] <slarti> swoon_: when do you get that error?
[02:51] <swoon_> slarti when the installer tries to compile the driver...
[02:52] <jdub> slarti: because a) you're building as a user, not root and b) fakeroot tricks everything running underneath it that root-requiring operations have succeeded
[02:52] <cujosuperfly> ok jdub, synclient -l gives me stuff.  what am i looking for?
[02:52] <jdub> swoon_: why aren't you installing the pre-built version?
[02:52] <jdub> cujosuperfly: well, i'm not sure which behaviour is biting you, but you can play with all of those now
[02:52] <cujosuperfly> awesome
[02:52] <tseng> Lathiat: any luck with dashboard?
[02:52] <cujosuperfly> thanks
[02:52] <swoon_> jdub: because there isnt one supposidly for the amd 64
[02:53] <jdub> i do this in my session:
[02:53] <jdub> synclient TapButton1=0 TapButton2=0 TapButton3=0 UpDownScrolling=0 
[02:53] <jdub> although i still get stupid back-button behaviour -> gotta figure that out
[02:53] <jsubl2> so who in here as a amd64
[02:53] <swoon_> obviously someone does (me) ubuntu does make an amd64 version of its distro...
[02:56] <LinuxJones> jdub, why are there no default document templates with Gnome 2.8 ??
[02:58] <cog> LinuxJones, you should make a good set of 'em an propose 'em.
[02:59] <cog> like, lets see, what do we need... html... css... perl script... bash script... resume!... fax cover letter... 
[02:59] <jdub> LinuxJones: the templates are all left up to the user
[02:59] <cog> letter of appology for running over dog.
[02:59] <jdub> LinuxJones: if we preseed them, it will become about as useless as windows' New menu item
[03:00] <jdub> LinuxJones: so, no defaults, no templates provided by packages, etc.
[03:01] <LinuxJones> jbub,  ahh
[03:01] <cog> i think there should be at least one to show people where to put 'em.
[03:02] <jdub> ideally, apps will have 'save as template' functions which will plop stuff into ~/Templates
[03:03] <jgeorgeson> has anyone noticed static when listening to internet stations in rhythmbox? i don't hear any when listening to the same streams in xmms
[03:06] <whiprush> booyah, new utopia ipod love is great.
[03:06] <jdub> yo whiprush
[03:06] <whiprush> heya
[03:08] <myk> is anyone here using swsusp2 ?
[03:09] <evilmegaman> still having cd drive problems... no possible fix? is there some sort of driver floppy?
[03:10] <wasabi__> So like, does Ubuntu autodetect hardware and stuff properly?
[03:11] <myk> wasabi__: i haven't had any problems with it
[03:11] <jgeorgeson> wasabi__, it got all of mine (dell inspiron 2600) no problem
[03:11] <AndersAA> it's far from perfect but I haven't had any problems
[03:11] <evilmegaman> me had problem
[03:12] <evilmegaman> It couldn't detect my cd drive. same with mandrake. but not any other distro
[03:12] <evilmegaman> that I have tried
[03:12] <AndersAA> very weird... scsi or something?
[03:12] <jgeorgeson> evilmegaman, is it an lg?
[03:13] <evilmegaman> No
[03:13] <evilmegaman> I dunno
[03:13] <evilmegaman> It's a DW-U18A
[03:13] <evilmegaman> Sony
[03:13] <evilmegaman> But it should work
[03:14] <jgeorgeson> there was an LG that had a bad firmware, such that some distributions (specifically mandrake, i think 10) wold break it
[03:15] <Phr0stByte> jgeorgeson: that was fixed a long time ago
[03:15] <jgeorgeson> Phr0stByte, yeah, just a thought
[03:15] <evilmegaman> Hmmm
[03:19] <grue_> ?
[03:20] <grue_> help
[03:20] <jgeorgeson> help what?
[03:20] <grue_> gah
[03:20] <grue_> I've not been on IRC for a long time
[03:20] <grue_> thought there was some user settings before I actually started talking to people
[03:24] <AndersAA> any way to background execute /etc/init.d/networking?
[03:25] <AndersAA> I have wireless network (almost always out of range) and normal networking on my laptop, which I happen to reboot quite often, cuz the battery is broke ;)
[03:29] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, what do you mean by background networking?
[03:29] <AndersAA> jgeorgeson: background execution of the script, so you dont need to wait for the dhcp to login.
[03:30] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, look at /etc/network/interfaces. if you take "auto" out of each one they won't try to get a lease. You can also undo the setting with Computer->System Configuration->Networking in gnome
[03:31] <AndersAA> yeah... I suppose I could make it on login or something, setup sudo to allow execution without a password of that command
[03:31] <cog> oy, punkass_ defendguin i made more. czech 'em out. i only like the top one.
[03:31] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, I miss the RH option to allow users to bring interfaces up or down
[03:32] <AndersAA> simple enough to do with sudo, but it'd be nice to have a gui tool for it
[03:32] <AndersAA> maybe the wireless monitor could do that...
[03:32] <AndersAA> hmm, I could just move stuff around to get gdm to load before networking I suppose
[03:32] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, the applet doesn't at the moment, that I know of. But you can bring interfaces up/down with the config tool I mentioned
[03:32] <swoon_> screw, can anyone help me, I cant get into X because when I do log in the screen gets all messed up  can see something there but its all lined up... Im pretty sure that in the past all I did was install the new nvidia driver but... I havent been able to do that successfully using ubuntu amd64... \
[03:33] <cog> oy, cog! um url = http://graeme.is-a-geek.org/pyfi2.png
[03:33] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, there is that.  have both interfaces set to not come up on boot. plugging in the pcmcia wifi nic brings it up without me doing anything
[03:33] <AndersAA> jgeorgeson: ... of course, that'd work great, it'll auto detect that as a "cable been plugged in" and auto run dhcp
[03:34] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, yeah. the built in ethernet nic doesn't do that, though. i have to bring it up manually
[03:34] <sri> okay
[03:35] <AndersAA> or plug the cable in and out
[03:35] <sri> so.. I'm installing ubuntu in a corporate network
[03:35] <sri> and I'm having some trouble
[03:35] <AndersAA> most of the time that wont be in on my box anyway
[03:35] <sri> 1) I think there should be an option to use an http proxy during install.
[03:35] <sri> 2) I think ypbind is broken
[03:35] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, plugging the cable in/out doesn't register for me on the built-in nic, does it work for you?
[03:36] <sri> anybody have any issues with ypbind?
[03:36] <whiprush> sri: you get your ubuntu problems fixed I take it?
[03:36] <AndersAA> jgeorgeson: dunno, I'll test in a sec
[03:36] <AndersAA> ifplugd will detect that on most boxes I've tried it on though
[03:36] <AndersAA> (depending on network card module)
[03:37] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, neat, I'll have to lok at that package
[03:37] <sri> whiprush: yeah..trying to install this ubuntu at owrk.
[03:37] <sri> whiprush: but I don't think it'll work well in a corp network
[03:37] <sri> and if NIS doesn't work I'm screwed completely
[03:37] <whiprush> hmm
[03:37] <whiprush> I have nis at work
[03:37] <whiprush> works for me.
[03:37] <sri> dunno whats going wtih min ethen
[03:38] <whiprush> hrm.
[03:38] <sri> ypbind -debug -broadcast gives me a response from  a server but it just sets there saying "pinging all servers"
[03:38] <AndersAA> argh, wont work on my wireless device, I need it to run wpa_supplicant first :/
[03:38] <sri> also, since you have no root account, apt-get needs a user, that I don't hav ein my corporate passwd file
[03:38] <whiprush> my coworker is really nis smart. I'll find you tomorrow and link you up.
[03:38] <sri> whiprush: well, I think it's tihs particular version of ypbind..
[03:39] <sri> whiprush: since it works fine on my debian box
[03:39] <whiprush> oh I see
[03:39] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, I'm not familiar with it, but /etc/network has some framework for pre-ifup scripts
[03:39] <sri> whiprush: so I think it's ubuntu's ypbind thats broken in particular
[03:39] <whiprush> you could always replace it with the debian version. (disclaimer attached)
[03:39] <swoon_> screw, can anyone help me, I cant get into X because when I do log in the screen gets all messed up  can see something there but its all lined up... Im pretty sure that in the past all I did was install the new nvidia driver but... I havent been able to do that successfully using ubuntu amd64... \   anyone??
[03:39] <AndersAA> yeah I noticed
[03:39] <sri> it will probably require a crapload of hacking to get ubuntu to fit into my network.
[03:40] <sri> whiprush: yeah, thas what I'm thinking..
[03:40] <jdub> sri: can you write up a list of issues and post to ubuntu-users?
[03:40] <sri> jdub: sure, I will need to subscribe
[03:40] <jdub> that's a big commitment
[03:40] <sri> jdub: heh
[03:40] <whiprush> rol
[03:40] <jdub> you can send it to me if you don't want to bother ;)
[03:41] <whiprush> omg I have a feel good ubuntu/gnome story for the day.
[03:41] <swoon_> ...
[03:41] <sri> jdub: yeah, being on arch mailing list already puts me over my damn mail quota in two days :/
[03:41] <AndersAA> aww crap, /me 's afk, walking the dog at 3:41am, I gotta start setting alarms or something :p
[03:41] <AndersAA> thanks for your help jgeorgeson :)
[03:42] <jgeorgeson> AndersAA, sure, good luck
[03:42] <whiprush> ok, so I started my new job as a network admin at a local uni. A senior prof guy comes down and wants to spend money specifically on a linux lab due to faculty and student demand(!).
[03:42] <whiprush> so he asks me to think aloud. What we should use, etc. etc.
[03:42] <whiprush> So I mention Ubuntu and whatnot, throw out NX as an option
[03:43] <whiprush> turns out he's from South Africa.
[03:43] <whiprush> so I explain the whole thing
[03:43] <whiprush> booyah, 90 new GNOME desktops in the spring.
[03:43] <whiprush> beat that sri.
[03:43] <jdub> haha :-)
[03:44] <jdub> "mark shuttleworth?! SIGN ME UP!"
[03:44] <whiprush> + 90 sun thin clients from CDE to JDS.
[03:44] <jkg> I have one word for people lacking the mail quota to read ubuntu-users: gmail. :)
[03:44] <whiprush> I'm no extramedura, but it works.
[03:44] <sri> obviously I cannot compete :)
[03:45] <clee> jkg: heh. yes. have you noticed that half of the ubuntu users list is subscribed from gmail?
[03:45] <clee> myself included
[03:46] <jdub> it's not half
[03:46] <jdub> but there are quite a few :)
[03:46] <LinuxJones> night all !!
[03:47] <clee> jdub: heh. so have you been following the network-profile-switching stuff that spawned from daniels' "Lessons from XP" message?
[03:49] <jdub> clee: (about 20% on -users are gmail)
[03:49] <jdub> yeah
[03:49] <jdub> we're almost certainly going for NetworkManager for hoary
[03:49] <clee> jdub: really? wow, I would've thought it to be more...
[03:49] <clee> Nice.
[03:50] <clee> We're going to ship NetworkManager in FC3
[03:50] <clee> but it's not going to be enabled by default
[03:50] <jdub> ahr
[03:50] <jdub> didn't think so ;)
[03:50] <jsubl2> so.. somebody have a gmail invite for me
[03:50] <clee> there are still a few bugs to work out, trust me
[03:50] <clee> jdub: do you know if anybody has any packages of it for warty though?
[03:50] <whiprush> jsubl2: msg me your name and address
[03:51] <paxetil> ubuntu uses .deb packages ?
[03:51] <jkg> paxetil: yep
[03:51] <jsubl2> oops
[03:51] <paxetil> and apt-get ?
[03:52] <jgeorgeson> what does NetworkManager add?
[03:52] <jkg> yeah. and synaptic, apparently, though I've not tried it yet.
[03:52] <paxetil> ok
[03:53] <clee> jgeorgeson: profiles for network settings
[03:53] <clee> jgeorgeson: easy to switch
[03:53] <clee> jgeorgeson: and it's all sexified with the latest DBUS tech
[03:53] <burner_> how do you guys recommend setting samba shares?
[03:53] <jdub> clee: thom is working on some
[03:53] <clee> fire.
[03:53] <clee> jdub: yeah, but I don't see a link to a repository. :)
[03:53] <burner_> is there a gui that I can do this with?  I tried to right click share, but there's no share option
[03:53] <jkg> network profiles as in for (say) a laptop that you regularly move between multiple networks or something? that sounds nifty.
[03:53] <jdub> clee: working, as in not-finished :)
[03:54] <clee> jdub: how about that epittance stuff from dobey? :)
[03:54] <jdub> clee: i am, um, waiting to see what alex produces. ahem.
[03:54] <jgeorgeson> clee, how does the profile support differ from what's currently supported?
[03:54] <clee> jdub: heh.
[03:54] <whiprush> burner_: there's no real easy way to publish shares like that yet.
[03:54] <clee> jgeorgeson: ... how do you currently switch SSID's in warty?
[03:54] <burner_> yet?  gnome 2.10?  or just sometime
[03:54] <jdub> jgeorgeson: it's largely automated, utopia-ised, user policy based, etc.
[03:54] <clee> jgeorgeson: or switch from wifi to wired?
[03:55] <burner_> i'm thinking I'll just have to do smbpasswd and edit smb.conf
[03:56] <jgeorgeson> clee, usually command line (ifdown; ifup; iwconfig, etc)
[03:56] <whiprush> burner_: dunno.
[03:56] <burner_> cool... just curious
[03:56] <whiprush> there was a zeroconf one I tried the otherday. epittance, but I couldn't get it to work.
[03:56] <clee> jgeorgeson: This will allow you to configure each "place" graphically, and switch between them easily with a single dropdown
[03:56] <jgeorgeson> burner_, there is a tool called swat, you use your web browser
[03:56] <clee> jgeorgeson: One of my coworkers is working on it. :)
[03:57] <jgeorgeson> clee, cool
[03:57] <burner_> no, i can edit it... it's ok... just curious if there was a nautilus integration
[03:57] <burner_> i can always use konqueror too ;)
[03:57] <clee> burner_: heh.
[03:57] <jgeorgeson> burner_, would be nice. but even browsing smb shares with nautilus, i've never seen an app that can open files directly
[03:58] <burner_> supposedly gnomevfs integration will be had in beep-media-player which should allow playing over smb shares without mounting
[03:58] <burner_> you can always mount the share... then go from there
[04:00] <uxi9000> simply question i have.  I increase the size of the panel to HUMONGOUS and cant find the button to resize/move it?  
[04:01] <MGS> hi all
[04:01] <bur[n] er> hi
[04:01] <uxi9000> howdy
[04:01] <muldy> the distro is very good :)
[04:01] <muldy> bye
[04:02] <bur[n] er> bye
[04:02] <MGS> hehe im about to install ubuntu for the first time (my first linux install also)
[04:02] <whiprush> MGS: excellent.
[04:02] <bur[n] er> MGS, it's pretty easy as far as linux goes
[04:02] <MGS> okay
[04:02] <jkg> dammit, I wish ubuntu had been around when I did my first linux install :)
[04:02] <MGS> i have one question though
[04:02] <MGS> when i install my internet
[04:02] <MGS> (pppoe)
[04:03] <MGS> is it any harder then with windows
[04:03] <bur[n] er> ooh.... pppoe... bleh
[04:03] <MGS> its verizon dsl
[04:03] <MGS> oh
[04:03] <MGS> hmmm
[04:03] <MGS> i was thinking of hooking up my router
[04:03] <bur[n] er> don't you have an external modem?
[04:03] <MGS> yes
[04:04] <MGS> i do
[04:04] <bur[n] er> then no big deal :)
[04:04] <MGS> okay
[04:04] <MGS> cool
[04:04] <bur[n] er> a router is always good for security
[04:04] <MGS> yeah
[04:04] <yyc747> does ubuntu use lilo or grub by default?  also, if it doesn't use grub by default, how much extra work is involved in setting it up?
[04:04] <uxi9000> grub
[04:04] <yyc747> sweet
[04:05] <MGS> grub? lilo?
[04:05] <MGS> sorry im a noob
[04:05] <yyc747> bootloader
[04:05] <MGS> ooh
[04:05] <bur[n] er> grub is good stuff
[04:05] <MGS> ok
[04:05] <yyc747> grub is much better imo
[04:05] <MGS> ok
[04:05] <yyc747> I think there is even a dos version now
[04:06] <yyc747> my friend used it to boot a knoppix iso before he was ready to take the linux plunge
[04:06] <tjk> is there any easy way of "upgrading" from debian, or do I have to go with the "wipe everything" approach?
[04:06] <MGS> i used phlak (i guess that was my first linux experience)
[04:06] <MGS> which is based off knoppix
[04:06] <uxi9000> where do i config panel properties, ive accidentally made the thing too damn big
[04:07] <yyc747> so, yeah, I'm giving ubuntu a shot.  the only thing I don't like so far is the use of xfree86, but that will be changed in the next release
[04:07] <MGS> i have no idea what xfree86 is, but okay
[04:07] <whiprush> heh
[04:07] <uxi9000> hey yyc747 what are you getting from x.org that you like is it the shit??
[04:07] <whiprush> uxi9000: does right clicking on the panel show the menu?
[04:07] <bur[n] er> xorg isn't in debian yet... they're waiting to see if it'll be monolithic or modular
[04:08] <yyc747> xfree86 (and it's new, better fork, xorg) is what allows graphics to be displayed essentially
[04:08] <uxi9000> whiprush, it only gives me the icon properties...
[04:08] <yyc747> uxi9000: I like the license and the faster pace of development.  plus, at this point, even if xfree86 were technically superior, i would switch because all of the developers have jumped ship to x.org
[04:08] <whiprush> hmmm, maybe you have a launcher on that spot or something
[04:08] <jgeorgeson> uxi9000, don't click on an icon
[04:08] <uxi9000> is there a cli command to bring up the config
[04:09] <whiprush> uxi9000: right click on an empty spot on the panel
[04:09] <dablitz> how do i fix "MP-BIOS BUG: 8254 timer not connected to IO_APIC
[04:09] <uxi9000> thats the problem its so big there doesnt seem to be an empty spot...
[04:10] <whiprush> aha
[04:10] <whiprush> launch gconf editor.
[04:10] <dablitz> I am trying to setup my laptop, and i get this error first
[04:10] <whiprush> the go to apps, panel, profiles.
[04:10] <yyc747> so far, my favorite distro is gentoo (and I don't think that will change) but I'm looking for something that is a bit easier and faster for times when I don't want all of the advanced config gentoo has to offer
[04:10] <goatboy> uxi9000: click on an applet and hit ctrl-f10
[04:11] <yyc747> I'm looking for a happy medium between knoppix and pure debian, preferrably with the documentation of gentoo
[04:11] <yyc747> and so far I like what I see
[04:11] <MGS> is there any way to setup a login screen on ubuntu?
[04:11] <MGS> i dont have it installed
[04:11] <MGS> im just wondering
[04:11] <joem> it uses gdm by default
[04:11] <MGS> gdm?
[04:11] <tjk> a login screen
[04:11] <MGS> oooh okay
[04:11] <MGS> awesome
[04:12] <whiprush> hey goatboy you have the new totem-gstreamer stuff handy?
[04:12] <yyc747> btw, does ubuntu need a net connection to set up a basic system (I mean like X+browser+office)?
[04:12] <goatboy> whiprush: nope, haven't tried it yet.
[04:12] <bur[n] er> yyc747no
[04:12] <whiprush> anyone try it yet?
[04:12] <bur[n] er> yyc747, no rather
[04:13] <yyc747> bur[n] er: that means I can get my friend to install it on his laptop at school
[04:13] <yyc747> he's looking for the next step from knoppix (which, surprisingly, he has had since yesterday)
[04:14] <yyc747> and I'm trying to steer him away from slack, because I know nothing about it
[04:14] <bur[n] er> slack has shitty package management is the only downside
[04:15] <yyc747> bur[n] er: why do you think my favorite distros are debian (-based) and gentoo
[04:15] <jgeorgeson> bur[n] er, sack has package management?
[04:15] <jgeorgeson> j/k
[04:15] <yyc747> bur[n] er: I need package management
[04:15] <bur[n] er> me too... it's why i switched from slack way back when to debian
[04:15] <yyc747> bur[n] er: good package management
[04:16] <yyc747> bur[n] er: or, at the very least, something that can easily remove packages I don't like
[04:16] <uxi9000> ok got gconf open where do i find the panel option in there.  
[04:16] <uxi9000> this looks a lot like the registry...
[04:16] <bur[n] er> just wish i knew how to make .debs
[04:16] <yyc747> btw, are there many themes for gnome included?  the screens I've seen look ugly imo
[04:17] <bur[n] er> it's not an easy thing to do when you're not compiling from source... when it's just python scripts
[04:17] <yyc747> bur[n] er: hmm... I've never really looked at how to do that
[04:17] <bur[n] er> yyc747, there's a few
[04:17] <Chriffer> yyc747, I think its the normal gnome themes + the color scheme ubuntu uses
[04:17] <whiprush> uxi9000: clicking on the panel and hitting ctrl-f10 didn't bring the menu up?
[04:17] <yyc747> bur[n] er: because I'm starting to like KDE more and more
[04:18] <joem> bur[n] er, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[04:18] <joem> read up :)
[04:18] <whiprush> yyc747: there's a package, gnome-theme-extras with some more themes
[04:18] <yyc747> whiprush: sounds good
[04:18] <yyc747> whiprush: color schemes also?
[04:18] <yyc747> (in KDE the two are separate)
[04:18] <whiprush> don't know what you mean by color schemes
[04:18] <whiprush> oh oh
[04:18] <uxi9000> hey whiprush that did it.  big thanks.  I was not doing all 3 at once.  Are you whiprush from ars??
[04:18] <whiprush> no, don't think so.
[04:18] <dablitz> how do i fix "MP-BIOS BUG: 8254 timer not connected to IO_APIC"
[04:18] <bur[n] er> joem, i've gone through them... i can make .debs when I have to compile a program... hen I just have to make a dpkg entry and put some scripts in a certain location... i'm lost
[04:18] <whiprush> uxi9000: heh, goatboy mentioned it a page up. And yes.,
[04:19] <tjk> I take it there isn't any easy way of upgrading from debian to ubuntu?
[04:20] <goatboy> yyc747: in GNOME color schemes are a part of GTK+ themes.
[04:20] <yyc747> I like the versioning scheme... it's shorter than the 2004XXXX type, and more precise than the gentoo 2004.X
[04:20] <yyc747> goatboy: k.  I'll experiment with it
[04:20] <whiprush> tjk: you can, but it's unsupported. ymmv. you get to keep both pieces if it breaks. etc. etc.
[04:20] <yyc747> goatboy: is there a theme reminiscant of OS X?
[04:20] <yyc747> goatboy: I don't mind that
[04:20] <joem> anybody have a good guide for setting up an initrd with chroot
[04:20] <tjk> whiprush, is there a doc on it someplace?
[04:21] <goatboy> yyc747: not included in gnome-themes-extras, I don't think.
[04:21] <goatboy> yyc747: but there are plenty of them out there.
[04:21] <whiprush> tjk: you just snag the /etc/apt/sources.list from ubuntu and then apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade.
[04:21] <whiprush> but don't go reporting odd bugs and whatnot. :)
[04:21] <yyc747> goatboy: whether or not I can apt-get themes doesn't really concern me
[04:21] <phin> heeey
[04:22] <phin> how do i edit the debian menu?
[04:22] <phin> and have it keep the changes
[04:22] <jgeorgeson> whiprush: isn't ubuntu based off of testing? if so, someone with an unstable install would probably be really 'irritated' by downgrading packages
[04:22] <tjk> aha, 'ubuntu sources.list' actually came up with something helpful on google...
[04:23] <whiprush> snapshot of sid from a while back from what I've read.
[04:23] <whiprush> tjk: I've got one, sec.
[04:23] <phin> yo whip
[04:23] <whiprush> wotcha phin
[04:23] <phin> hey you know how to make perm changes to the debian menu?
[04:23] <defendguin> i wish someone would build a netapplet that worked in gnome 2.8 :(
[04:23] <defendguin> does anyone else have problems with irc.gimp.net
[04:23] <defendguin> maybe it would be nice for some applications so support "Make this a Template ..."
[04:23] <defendguin> :)
[04:23] <defendguin> my homemade ubuntu stickers suck
[04:23] <defendguin> whiprush, i have had no luck with my ipod and ubuntu :(
[04:23] <defendguin> jdub, do you think you guys could get some decent ubuntu gear at cafepress?
[04:23] <phin> i wanna change the way a few things load up, but everytime i do it just overwrites
[04:23] <defendguin> cog, link
[04:23] <defendguin> cog, eeeek
[04:23] <defendguin> cant you make anything with decent colors?
[04:24] <whiprush> tjk: http://www.arslinux.com/~jorge/sources.list
[04:24] <defendguin> jdub, do you guys know how many ubuntu installs using the popularity contest thing that was installed?
[04:24] <defendguin> i have 6 i need to get rid of
[04:24] <tjk> da, that's the one i found on google :)
[04:24] <whiprush> tjk: don't blame me if your porn gets deleted or something. :D
[04:24] <whiprush> woo
[04:24] <tjk> that's okay. My collection is small
[04:24] <jdub> defendguin: nup
[04:24] <whiprush> defendguin: did it mount?
[04:24] <jdub> defendguin: we're going to have t-shirts and so on, not cafepress stuff though.
[04:25] <dablitz> i could really use some help
[04:25] <jdub> jgeorgeson: ubuntu is a branch of sid
[04:25] <Se7h> woo
[04:25] <jdub> jgeorgeson: frozen a while back, so some parts of testing may be newer
[04:25] <whiprush> dablitz: just ask
[04:25] <Se7h> major updates today i see
[04:25] <dablitz> how do i fix "MP-BIOS BUG: 8254 timer not connected to IO_APIC"
[04:25] <jdub> dablitz: you get a new motherboard :)
[04:25] <jdub> dablitz: it shouldn't affect you
[04:26] <Se7h> gnome updates also
[04:26] <dablitz> yes, actually this is a new compaq 2800+ laptop
[04:26] <jdub> dablitz: it's nothing you can actually fix
[04:26] <dablitz> and ontop of that, i can only seem to keep net for about 4 or 5 minutes, and it freezez
[04:27] <whiprush> I demand Ubuntu gag humor tshirts.
[04:27] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, have you looked at this? http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Kernel/2004-03/1467.html
[04:27] <dablitz> i will
[04:27] <whiprush> "mdz, do you even freaking sleep? yeesh." and so forth.
[04:27] <whiprush> "multiverse stole my GPL."
[04:27] <whiprush> etc.
[04:28] <socomm> "Ubuntu ate my hampster."
[04:28] <socomm> `/rimshot'
[04:30] <dablitz> how about not being able to resolv archive.ubuntu.com
[04:31] <atomsk> clear
[04:31] <dablitz> clear?
[04:31] <atomsk> oops sorry :)
[04:31] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, just that host? or not being able to resolve in general?
[04:31] <dablitz> in general, anything
[04:31] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, check /etc/resolv.conf
[04:31] <phin> sweet, my, now former, windows using freind just sat at this laptop and was like "I WANT THIS!"
[04:31] <phin> lol
[04:32] <dablitz> nameserver 192.168.0.1----> just my router
[04:32] <atomsk> nice...since when Gnome pops up a folder window when you plug a usb mass storage device?
[04:33] <whiprush> 2.8
[04:33] <jgeorgeson> if it doesn't have a dns server on it then that's the problem. you using dhcp or static ip?
[04:33] <phin> ya gnome is the shit
[04:33] <phin> is great i mean
[04:33] <phin> i wish i could run the full desktop on this machine
[04:33] <phin> i just run the panel
[04:34] <{Q}> hey all
[04:34] <socomm> Yo!
[04:34] <jgeorgeson> hi
[04:34] <{Q}> you all know me, i am q2, and RuffianSoldier
[04:35] <phin> i cant wait to get this wireless
[04:35] <phin> this usb to ethernet sucks
[04:36] <phin> everytime i move it it locks my system for some reason
[04:36] <phin> ok i have an fstab question.  if i put in a share, and its not available, it will just ignore it, correct?
[04:36] <socomm> phin, maybe your eth0 card comes loose when you move the cable.
[04:37] <phin> well if it wiggles it locks x
[04:37] <phin> if im not in x it spits out usb errors
[04:37] <phin> on the console
[04:37] <socomm> phin, yeah probably comes loose. That happend once when my audio card came loose.
[04:37] <phin> ya its not a big deal
[04:37] <phin> this connection is temp
[04:37] <phin> my wireless is enroute now :)
[04:38] <phin> got a wireless g router and wireles b card for 71 on ebay
[04:38] <phin> its a wap11 version 3 so its linux ready :)
[04:44] <eldados> any 1 knows if the new amd64 daily fixes the problem with x and nvidia 6800?
[04:45] <{Q}> hi
[04:48] <Jaramin> anyone here knows how to capture the output of the entire boot process?
[04:48] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: you'll find it in /var/log/messages
[04:49] <LeeColleton> Note that this is continuious, even through a restart
[04:49] <ix> dmesg | less
[04:49] <dablitz> what can i put in my /etc/resolf.conf besides "nameserver 192.168.0.1"
[04:49] <phin> other name servers
[04:49] <phin> like i put in the ones for all the servers i do hosting at
[04:49] <phin> so when i put a domain over it works right away for me
[04:50] <dablitz> phin like my isp's primay and secondary dns?
[04:50] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: really? thanks! I'm rather new at linux, but in other distros there used to be a console windows running in the background that you could access with the F keys.
[04:50] <phin> well, more then likely your local dns server already uses em
[04:50] <phin> but yes you could if you want
[04:51] <phin> anyway.  anyone know how to make perminent changes to the default menu?
[04:53] <ranman> do you mean to add applications to it, and they stay even though you have uninstalled the application?
[04:54] <socomm> Jaramin, run `dmesg | less'
[04:55] <ranman> try putting "applications:" into the nautilus location bar, there you can edit the menu...
[04:55] <phin> ranman: i dont run nautilus
[04:55] <phin> i run fluxbox
[04:55] <phin> there is a default debian menu
[04:56] <phin> that auto updates my fluxbox menu
[04:56] <moyogo> hi, how do i quickly create a share with samba
[04:56] <socomm> phin, you gotta edit your config files.
[04:56] <socomm> phin, actually hold on.
[04:56] <phin> heh
[04:56] <phin> i was gonna say
[04:56] <phin> thats pretty, um...  
[04:56] <phin> hehe
[04:57] <socomm> http://devaux.fabien.free.fr/flux/
[04:57] <socomm> Try that.
[04:58] <socomm> phin, That should do it for you.
[04:58] <phin> naw
[04:58] <phin> thats not it
[04:58] <phin> see, there is a default debian menu
[04:58] <phin> that intergrates automaticly with the fluxbox menu
[04:59] <phin> so if i make changes to the flux menu, it just regenerates back over it
[04:59] <socomm> phin, so if you change it that will write over it?
[04:59] <phin> i'll search good, figured i'd ask here first ;)
[04:59] <phin> yes sirr
[05:00] <socomm> Actually it should be placed somewhere in /etc or /usr/share
[05:00] <phin> ya ive looked
[05:00] <phin> no luck
[05:00] <phin> there is a core debian menu
[05:00] <socomm> fluxbox will search there first, before searching in your home dir.
[05:00] <phin> that is the master
[05:00] <phin> and what this program does
[05:00] <phin> is it runs a program called update-menus
[05:00] <phin> or something
[05:00] <phin> everytime you install something
[05:00] <phin> this in return generates a new fluxbox menu
[05:01] <phin> so its all nice and up to date
[05:01] <phin> now thats great and all, i like it
[05:01] <phin> but i need some control over it :)
[05:01] <atomsk> say I'm in a terminal...any way to open a Gnome folder window in the current folder?
[05:01] <ranman> phin: sorry for the late response... lag... blah... You will find your answer in /var/lib/menu. This is the place that Debian builds the menu from.. plenty of examples..
[05:01] <hazmat> i'm trying to install the mono packages from http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs, i'm on a different architecture though and want to build from source, but apt refuses to download the source from that repo.. any ideas why?
[05:01] <hazmat> it always goes to the ones in universe
[05:02] <tseng> because i didnt upload sources for most of the packages?
[05:02] <socomm> phin, use the 'locate' command to find the global config.
[05:02] <tseng> since i didnt change them from debian unstable
[05:02] <phin> there isnt a menu
[05:02] <phin> but there is a menu-xdg
[05:02] <phin> in /var/lib
[05:02] <socomm> phin, try backing that up something like 'mv menu-xdg menu-xdg.bak'
[05:02] <hazmat> tseng, but there are sources for some of them
[05:03] <tseng> what are you talking about
[05:03] <tseng> there are not.
[05:03] <hazmat> oh.. i just assumed the files without i386 in them were source
[05:03] <hazmat> i'm a debian newb
[05:03] <tseng> i only have sources for tomboy and monodevelop
[05:04] <phin> ok so after i change, what do i do to update?
[05:05] <hazmat> tseng, so to make packages, you added debian unstable to your sources, did apt-get source for all of the packages, and built and installed each one in the proper depedency order?
[05:05] <tseng> yes
[05:05] <tseng> but you need mono installed from binary first
[05:05] <tseng> or to bootstrap it in chroot
[05:05] <yyc747> night everyone... I'll probably do my ubuntu install tomorrow
[05:05] <dablitz> how do i renew my ip address with ubuntu
[05:06] <eldados> any 1 knows if the new amd64 daily fixes the problem with x and nvidia 6800?
[05:06] <yyc747> just out of curiosity, I think I'll ask an ubuntu question in #debian and see what happens.  The knoppix question I asked this morning produced entertaining results
[05:07] <tseng> dont be a troll.
[05:07] <yyc747> me?
[05:07] <ranman> phin: update-menus runs from /var/lib/menu and puts the menu in /var/lib/$DM/debian....
[05:07] <ranman> if you edit the menu at /var/lib/$DM/debian then it will be overwritten every time that update-menus is run...
[05:07] <tseng> yyc747: yes.
[05:07] <ranman> if you add another file to /var/lib/menu then run update menus as root, or user..
[05:07] <yyc747> yes, I suppose that was a troll
[05:07] <hazmat> tseng, lost me there, why would you need mono installed to get the mono packages to compile.. its just c source. ?
[05:07] <yyc747> but it really does reflect my feelings
[05:07] <eldados> yyc747, if you really want to have fun, ask it in gentoo...
[05:07] <tseng> hazmat: ...
[05:07] <clee> hazmat: no, because mono is written in C#
[05:07] <dablitz> how do i renew my ip address with ubuntu
[05:07] <yyc747> I've asked lots of non-gentoo questions in gentoo
[05:07] <clee> hazmat: so it's a chicken-and-egg problem.
[05:07] <phin> ahh ok ranman :) thanks ima give it a try
[05:08] <yyc747> it usually gives me no problem
[05:08] <eldados> :)
[05:08] <yyc747> and it's not even related
[05:08] <yyc747> tseng: I'm hoping that the ubuntu community will be slightly less rabid
[05:08] <tseng> hazmat: you need a mono compiler to build mono
[05:09] <eldados> dablitz: are you on dhcp? you will need to restart the service, I think...
[05:09] <hazmat> tseng, i still don't see why, you can build mono from source on other platforms without mono installed..
[05:09] <yyc747> tseng: btw, I'm a big supporter of gentoo so watch what you say (just kidding, I hate all people who are rabidly distro-centric)
[05:09] <hazmat> tseng, sure alot of is written in c# ..
[05:09] <hazmat> but i never had the issue on say.. gentoo.. i'll take a look
[05:09] <tseng> hazmat: ok, since you are the expert.
[05:09] <tseng> hazmat: go have at it
[05:09] <tseng> mono-mcs depends on mono-assemblies
[05:09] <dablitz> and that would be /etc/init.d/dhcp stop?
[05:10] <tseng> which depends on mono-mcs
[05:10] <hazmat> tseng, sorry didn't mean to be rude.
[05:10] <hazmat> tseng, so what i'm thinking is install mono in /opt/mono add it the path, build the packages 
[05:10] <hazmat> isntall mono from source that is
[05:10] <yyc747> tseng: dependancy hell!
[05:10] <tseng> i installed mono from sid to start
[05:10] <tseng> there is a guide to bootstrap the packages
[05:11] <phin> ranman: ok i ran update-menus as root, and it changed the thing i made BACK to what it was before :-\
[05:11] <tseng> but its alot more work
[05:11] <phin> this was something i edited in /var/lib/menu-xdg/applications/menu-xdg/
[05:13] <calc> phin: /var/lib/menu-xdg is generated data
[05:14] <mojo_> hi all ppl!
[05:14] <calc> phin: iow changing anything in there will get erased on update-menu run
[05:14] <phin> ok
[05:14] <phin> well
[05:14] <phin> where do i change things?
[05:14] <phin> lol
[05:14] <calc> you can make changes for a user in their ~/.local dir
[05:14] <mojo_> I welcome all developers SSH to my box to fix bugs (ie Bug #1552)
[05:14] <phin> so
[05:14] <mojo_> just tell me if u want!
[05:15] <phin> calc, well i wanna make em global
[05:15] <phin> but thats not TOO important
[05:15] <phin> where do i make the changes at?
[05:15] <jgeorgeson> how do i tell ubuntu that the hardware clock is not set to gmt?
[05:15] <phin> ~/.menu/ ?
[05:15] <calc> you can probably override them by overriding them at the .menu stage in /etc/menu (iirc that is where to put them)
[05:15] <mojo_> jgeogre? wat u mean?
[05:16] <ranman> phin: that is the wrong place.
[05:16] <calc> ~/.menu would be per user as well
[05:17] <mojo_> yes, hey all ppl, there is a question raised for discussion!
[05:17] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, the right time zone is listed (CDT), but the clock is 5 hours slow, which leads me to believe it is treating the hardware clock as GMT and subtracting 5 hours from it
[05:17] <mojo_> "Should we adopt Yast?"
[05:17] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: Computer > System Configuration > Time and Date
[05:17] <mojo_> Yast has been open-sourced, so y not we use it for Ubuntu?
[05:17] <calc> yast isn't even open source is it?
[05:17] <calc> ah
[05:17] <mojo_> yes, it has
[05:18] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: set it to sync your clock with an internet server
[05:18] <phin> nopw
[05:18] <phin> nope
[05:18] <phin> still not working
[05:18] <mojo_> Novell has GPL Yast recently
[05:18] <mojo_> using Yast would make Ubuntu easier to admin and install --> head to enterprise market for Ubuntu
[05:19] <jgeorgeson> LeeColleton, why can't it be told that the hardware clock isn't set to GMT? every other distro i have used has this option somewhere (during install usually)
[05:19] <calc> why not just help finish g-s-t
[05:19] <jdub> mojo_: that one's easy... "NO!" :-)
[05:19] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, lots of people think Yast is horrid
[05:19] <ranman> phin: ~/.menu is the local place to make new menu template files, and global for all users is at /var/lib/menu
[05:20] <ranman> follow the example of the other files at /var/lib/menu
[05:20] <mojo_> if u've used SuSE b4, it beat RedHat, Mandrake very far
[05:20] <phin> right
[05:20] <phin> i made a change to one of thouse
[05:20] <calc> ranman: er there is no /var/lib/menu, it appears /etc/menu is the global location
[05:20] <Jaramin> i'm going nuts doing sudo all the time... is it safe to add myself to the root group (safe as in: will it cause ownership problems to files)
[05:20] <mojo_> the weak point of GNOME is poor and discrete config tool
[05:20] <phin> and it changed it back when i did update-menus
[05:21] <mojo_> Yast is the solution for it
[05:21] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, i disagree. i think monolithic admin tools like yast and drakconf are terrible. i think RH has the best admin tools
[05:21] <jdub> mojo_: the problem is that yast is very heavily suse based, would require a huge amount of effort to port (you're welcome to start), and is not regarded as 'optimal'
[05:21] <calc> mojo_: but does yast have a clean design for frontend/backend, etc?
[05:21] <calc> otherwise just extending g-s-t would be much easier
[05:22] <tseng> yast is also very suse specific
[05:22] <tseng> obviously.
[05:22] <mojo_> calc: yes, Yast got X, GNOME and Qt backend - very nice - I will spend more time on the Yast port project - need to collect more geeks
[05:22] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, they have a dedicated tool for each task which, and the tools don't require any special massaging to edit the config files by hand, like yast does
[05:22] <LeeColleton> jgeorgeson: there's probably a better way to do this, but you can edit the file '/etc/default/rcS' to set UTC=no
[05:22] <phin> hmm
[05:22] <phin> no luck still :(
[05:22] <calc> mojo_: that is frontend, the backend is how you rewrite the tools to work with different dists, etc
[05:22] <calc> http://www.gnome.org/projects/gst/
[05:23] <mojo_> jgeorgreson: I understand u, but for some newcommer, Linux is hell-hard, with me, I dun even need Yast, but pls think about end-users not geek-users
[05:23] <tseng> you'll sound more convincing if you use proper english.
[05:23] <dablitz> sit0: unkown hardware address type 776 help
[05:23] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, i think rh's config tools are very user-friendly. and what i saw of g-s-t previously they are going to be just as friendly
[05:24] <grue_> Hello, I have a real question this time
[05:25] <grue_> Is there a way to change file/folder permissions from the Gnome fle browser?  Or can that only be done from a root terminal?
[05:25] <joem> grue_, right click properties
[05:25] <mojo_> what's the name of the program on MS Windows Nt, 2k, and XP where u import some windows that are separate config programs?
[05:25] <joem> you can only change what you have perms to do
[05:26] <jgeorgeson> grue_, if you have permission to change permissions on a file without a root terminal, you can do it in nautilus too
[05:26] <grue_> nautilus is what I meant.  Is there a way for my normal user to get those permissions?
[05:26] <jgeorgeson> mojo_, no idea
[05:27] <AndyFitz> grue_,  alot of the time I load nautilus --browser as root from terminal and set permissions
[05:27] <mojo_> change topic
[05:27] <grue_> is that a command line erm, command:  "nautilus --browser"
[05:28] <joem> easier to just set them from the command line..
[05:28] <grue_> OK, I was hoping there was an easier way to get write access to all these config files...
[05:28] <joem> grue_, oh dead
[05:29] <joem> er dear
[05:29] <joem> use sudo
[05:29] <joem> don't change the perms on all of the config files
[05:29] <AndyFitz> um kinda ...its just an option when loading nautilus
[05:29] <grue_> How do I do that from nautilus?
[05:29] <LeeColleton> grue_: the idea behind restricting those permissions is that ordinary users WON'T go mucking about with them
[05:29] <AndyFitz> sudo -s; nautilus --browser
[05:29] <grue_> I have been changing them back, I'm not a total TOTAL noob
[05:29] <ranman> calc: phin: oops, I was wrong about the location... "/usr/lib/menu" take a look at the package menu.. "dpkg -L menu"
[05:29] <LeeColleton> grue_: which permissions do you want to change, and why?
[05:29] <joem> uh, so just use sudo to edit them
[05:30] <joem> rather then changing the perms
[05:30] <joem> editing them and then changing back
[05:30] <jgeorgeson> grue_, sudo vi file
[05:30] <joem> ew vi
[05:30] <dablitz> ok here is my question. my system just stop the network, almost as if it looses its conncetion completely
[05:30] <dablitz> how do i fix that
[05:30] <LeeColleton> 'sudo <favorite-text-editor> file'
[05:30] <calc> ranman: /usr/lib/menu isn't the dir that the admin normally modifies, its the dist install location
[05:31] <calc> /etc/menu overrides that afaik
[05:31] <calc> /etc/menu/README says to do that anyway ;)
[05:31] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, kind of a vague problem. maybe you have a poorl supported nic. maybe you have a bad cable. if it's wifi, maybe you have a weak signal, perhaps a bad antenna
[05:31] <jgeorgeson> joem, what's the editor of the beast?
[05:32] <dablitz> ok my laptop has both wifi and eth0, wth0 is an 8139too
[05:32] <joem> vim :)
[05:32] <jgeorgeson> vivivi
[05:32] <grue_> I can handle vi
[05:32] <ranman> calc: I agree, he was looking for "permenant"
[05:33] <jgeorgeson> dablitz, i assume you're only trying to use one at a time. what is wth0?
[05:33] <dablitz> eth0 sorry
[05:34] <dablitz> i only want to use eth0 right now, but it stops at random times
[05:34] <jgeorgeson> look for notes about that driver on google?
[05:34] <jgeorgeson> is that a realtek driver?
[05:34] <dablitz> yes
[05:35] <phin> sweet i got it
[05:35] <phin> :)
[05:36] <jgeorgeson> hm, i had thought realtek's were well supported. is it really a realtek, or is it just a compatbile chip using the driver?
[05:36] <dablitz> from the specs from compacq its a realtek
[05:37] <Jaramin> in the same line of thought as grue_, I don't think doing sudo all the time ia a good answer, it's tedious. I'm learning linux, I want to be able to fiddle with things easily. Coming from the windows world, I'm used to have all permissions on my machine...
[05:37] <grue_> integrated with motherboard?
[05:37] <Jaramin> so, is there a way to grant priviliges to a user so that he can edit any files he sees in nautilus?
[05:38] <jgeorgeson> Jaramin, run `sudo -s` and you will have a root shell
[05:38] <jgeorgeson> Jaramin, and there's a root shell menu option: Applications->System Tools->Root Terminal
[05:39] <Jaramin> jgeorgson: I know, but I don't want to run just a shell, in fact I want to avoid it :P I want that, from the moment I log in, I can edit any config file I see in nautilus by double clicking on it's icon.
[05:40] <whiprush> Jaramin: don't think in windows. ;)
[05:40] <whiprush> after you set up what you want you'll never need elevated priviledges
[05:41] <grue_> Jaramin, reset the root password and then login as root.  Don't do that after you've got stuff more figured out.
[05:41] <grue_> what whiprush said
[05:41] <grue_> whiprush do you post on Ars?
[05:42] <Jaramin> whiprush: well, I do want to "think in windows", as it's natural for me, and since I'm leraning linux, I want to muck aroubd with stuff a lot, and if I break my system, well, boohoo, that's the way I'll learn :)
[05:42] <whiprush> grue_: yep
[05:42] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: running day to day as root is a bad idea.  You have been warned.
[05:42] <grue_> I'm usually SopWATh on there
[05:42] <whiprush> Jaramin: yeah, that's like the first step though, heh.
[05:42] <phlaegel> windows-(un)think won't help you in linux.
[05:42] <phlaegel> :-)
[05:43] <dablitz> "NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out" "eth0: link up, 100Mbps, full-duplex, lpa 0x45E1"
[05:43] <dablitz> what does this mean
[05:43] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: keep vital data backed up off-system, preferably on a seperate partition, too
[05:43] <phlaegel> so is the network window slow for everyone else? I mean taking a few seconds to fill the window and become useful.
[05:43] <grue_> oh yeah!
[05:44] <Jaramin> grue_: argh, but my preferences are already all done for the current user... I thought adding myself to the root group would do the trick...
[05:44] <grue_> I reinstalled Samba 3 times before that stopped "magically"
[05:44] <joem> what is with peoples need to have root privs on everything
[05:44] <grue_> Jaramin, I know less than these other guys
[05:44] <_brandx_> There is no element present to handle the stream's mime type audio/mpeg. I get this in rhythmbox when trying to play the preset radio stations.. any ideas?
[05:44] <phlaegel> it would be nice if it could put in items as they are available, not stall the whole window for one slow thing.
[05:44] <whiprush> Jaramin: heh, this might kind sound of lame. But after I got used to the linux way, I started running my windows stuff the same way.
[05:45] <whiprush> ie. no priviledges.
[05:45] <Jaramin> LeeColletonL: is running as root under linux any worse than running as an admin on windows? if the answer is no, then that's fine with me :)
[05:45] <joem> running as admin on an infected windows machine, no :)
[05:45] <grue_> Thats the secure and correct way to do things.  If you have ZERO linux experience do stuff as root, mess it up and then fix it
[05:45] <joem> Jaramin, your user has sudo privs
[05:45] <joem> what more do you need
[05:46] <whiprush> grue_: cool cool, we have an ubuntu feedback thread going on right now, please leave some feedback if you can.
[05:46] <phin> ubuntu ROOLZ!
[05:46] <phin> lol
[05:47] <grue_> I don't really feel qualified to complain about anyting, I will mention the help I'm getting here though
[05:47] <phlaegel> anybody try running cvs tomboy on ubuntu with tseng's mono packages?
[05:47] <joem> whats in cvs tomboy?
[05:47] <grue_> what's cvs tomboy?
[05:47] <phlaegel> tomboy is http://www.beatniksoftware.com/tomboy/index.html
[05:47] <joem> tomboy from cvs sources :)
[05:48] <grue_> lol
[05:48] <Jaramin> joem: ease of use, that's what I need. the ability to make a user do everything root can, without issuing any commands. I'm all for GUI, sorry if that's disturbing for you guys :P
[05:48] <whiprush> phlaegel: I'm bored, lemme try it.
[05:48] <phlaegel> k
[05:48] <phlaegel> won't compile for me
[05:48] <joem> Jaramin, then just have the files open with gksudo gedit if you feel that way
[05:49] <joem> if that is possible, something like that is possible
[05:49] <joem> could just add a 1 line nautilus script if not
[05:50] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: the great thing about owning a computer is you can do whatever you want to with it.  If running the system as root makes sense to you, by all means; learn your lessons the hard way.  It won't, however, become a feature of Ubuntu (which has the root account disabled by default).
[05:50] <grue_> OK, so tomboy is a notetaking application that runs with mono???
[05:50] <phlaegel> yep
[05:50] <phlaegel> it's like a personal wiki
[05:50] <phlaegel> with some cool stuff planned
[05:50] <joem> phlaegel, what is in cvs that isn't in the release that makes it worth using
[05:50] <Jaramin> joem: yeah, well that's waht I did with the shortcut to nautilus, but that effectively *makes* me root, so when I trash stuff, it goes into root's trash, not mine... see where I'm going?
[05:50] <grue_> cool, how does one get Mono running?
[05:50] <joem> Jaramin, no it doesn't
[05:51] <joem> why would you trash config files anyways
[05:51] <defendguin> grue_, good idea would be to get a repository with mono apps in it
[05:51] <whiprush> phlaegel: all works for me, fresh from cvs
[05:51] <phlaegel> joem: I'd like to try and contribute back. Hard to do if it won't build.
[05:51] <joem> ah
[05:51] <grue_> how do I get a different repository?
[05:51] <joem> phlaegel, what does the compile fail on?
[05:51] <phlaegel> whiprush: hm
[05:51] <phlaegel> using tseng's mono source?
[05:52] <whiprush> yep
[05:52] <grue_> I uncommented the universe lines for that synaptic thing
[05:52] <joem> grue_, read the faq on the wiki
[05:52] <grue_> OK
[05:52] <joem> has a section about mono
[05:52] <grue_> sorry
[05:52] <phlaegel> it complains that it's missing Mono.Posix, which makes no sense, since that's part of mono.
[05:52] <joem> at the bottom
[05:52] <whiprush> deb http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs/ ./
[05:52] <whiprush> you want to add that to your sources.list grue_ 
[05:52] <WW_> Could someone give me a brief summary of the difference between "Mark for Removal" and "Mark for Complete Removal" in Synaptic? 
[05:53] <joem> phlaegel, you have all of the mono dev packages installed?
[05:53] <whiprush> WW_: complete removal removes the config files also
[05:53] <whiprush> like a purge
[05:53] <grue_> whiprush, which sources.list do I add it to?
[05:53] <whiprush>  /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:53] <joem> /etc/apt/sources.lst
[05:53] <grue_> I did a file search and theres a bunch of them
[05:53] <whiprush> then apt-get update
[05:53] <phlaegel> joem: as far as I can tell, unless it's named something I haven't though to search on.
[05:54] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: I don't want it to be feature :P Being a small business admin, I certainly do understand the user/root model and it's purpose (keeping the admin sane, lol). It's just that I thought that it was possible to create or grant privileges to a particular user so that he would becone some sort of second root
[05:54] <joem> Jaramin, that is what sudo is
[05:54] <joem> having root privs but not running as root
[05:55] <whiprush> grue_: after you apt-get update, then mono and everything in that repo will be available to you.
[05:55] <joem> if you plan on running gnome and net apps as root, better expect lots of trouble
[05:56] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: you can run 'sudo visudo' to give additional users root-level access
[05:57] <q2> hey all
[05:57] <Jaramin> joem: it does, try it. I have changed my nautilus shortcut by adding gksudo. with that, I can open a nautilus window that will allow me to edit files right on the spot by double cliking. but, let's say I change folder from that window, and go delete some log files. well they end up in root's trash.
[05:57] <joem> you don't run nautilus as root
[05:58] <joem> you open the files with gksudo
[05:58] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: ah, now that sounds interesting!
[05:58] <joem> so you right click on a config file, and run a nautilus script that opens gedit or whatever with gksudo
[05:58] <joem> then you can edit the file and save it, no problem
[05:59] <whiprush> I see what you need Jaramin 
[05:59] <whiprush> you need "Run As" on the desktop
[05:59] <grue_> whiprush: do I need that "./" at the end of the line?  It's giving me a 404
[05:59] <whiprush> grue_: lemme try
[05:59] <whiprush> yeah
[06:00] <whiprush> deb http://www.getsweaaa.com/~tseng/ubuntu/debs/ ./
[06:00] <whiprush> that's what I have and it works
[06:00] <phlaegel> same here
[06:00] <whiprush> phlaegel: so what error were you getting?
[06:00] <grue_> doh, I miss-typed it
[06:01] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: sudo can be extensively configured, allowing certain users access to certain commands.  This is beyond the needs of most personal computer systems, which probably have one owner/administrator and maybe a few casual users.
[06:02] <Jaramin> LeeColleton: hmm, does sudo visudo just allows other user to use sudo?
[06:02] <whiprush> you can add any user to the sudoers group
[06:03] <ionrock> hello all, does anyone have any experience with recompiling the kernel on a laptop?
[06:03] <whiprush> so, like, at work, for example ....
[06:03] <joem> ionrock, same as doing it on any other machine
[06:03] <whiprush> you can have three admins in the group for a file server or whatever.
[06:03] <whiprush> but, they all use their own passwords to get super user privs.
[06:04] <whiprush> so, when you fire admin #3, you just remove him from the group
[06:04] <whiprush> instead of the old way
[06:04] <whiprush> "hey everyone, new root password!"
[06:04] <ionrock> joem, the reason I ask is b/c I did it the other day and it wouldn't load b/c it couldn't find an initrd image. I think it is used to make sure the pcmcia bus starts up
[06:04] <phlaegel> whiprush: complains that Mono.Posix can't be found, but the dll is there
[06:04] <joem> ionrock, if you are using ubuntu, try running update grub
[06:05] <joem> er update-grub
[06:05] <whiprush> you sure you don't have some old compiled version in /usr/local?
[06:05] <ionrock> I needed to try and get my suspend working so I am messing with the kernel to get it going but I am thinking I need to make a initrd image
[06:05] <ionrock> joem, I did that before but to no avail
[06:05] <phlaegel> whiprush: version of what?
[06:05] <joem> did you try to just reinstall the kernel image package
[06:05] <whiprush> mono?
[06:05] <phlaegel> ls /usr/local/
[06:05] <joem> it should put the initrd in /boot
[06:06] <phlaegel> /usr/local is empty. the only mono installing is from tseng
[06:06] <whiprush> hmm
[06:06] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: visudo is just a vi session that locks the file /etc/sudoers 
[06:06] <ionrock> joem, since I couldn't include the suspend to disk stuff it wouldn't really do me much good ;)
[06:06] <whiprush> have you installed monodevelop or some other gtk# app? maybe your missing some dep.
[06:06] <phlaegel> whiprush: I just realized mono.posix isn't the first error... it's the line before it. still not sure why.
[06:06] <phin> learning vim is fun
[06:06] <phin> lol
[06:07] <whiprush> phlaegel: pastebin the whole thing
[06:07] <Jaramin> whiprush: the computer will only be used by me, it's my home computer. The "run as" an idea, but still tedious... is it possible *at all* in linux for a user different than root, from the moment they log on, to be able to access any file as root would through the GUI? that's what I want to know.
[06:07] <sopwath> Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it.
[06:07] <joem> Jaramin, no, not without using sudo
[06:08] <phlaegel> whiprush: http://pastebin.com/108320
[06:08] <joem> you won't be the only person using the box if you start to run net apps as root either
[06:08] <ionrock> Jaramin, you could add your user to the root group... but I am thinking that is not a good idea
[06:08] <whiprush> Jaramin: I swear to you man, after you install, you'll need root access like, 5% of the time. Really.
[06:09] <Jaramin> joem: *deception*
[06:09] <joem> Jaramin, not quite
[06:09] <phin> i wouldnt do it
[06:09] <phin> just install sudo
[06:09] <LeeColleton> Jaramin: yes, but that totally defeats the "as needed" approach to system access.  the sudo utility goes a long way to bridge this gap between usablility and security.
[06:09] <phin> then all you have todo is hit sudo to do something as root
[06:10] <Jaramin> whiprush: not really, I'll be changing config files dayly, trying stuff, testing stuff...
[06:10] <phlaegel> Jaramin: it seems like you should just try using things for a while as it comes. the things your asking for are either bad ideas or would just not work well.
[06:10] <phin> you will regret running 100% as root
[06:10] <phin> when you remove something accidently
[06:10] <phin> that you dont want to
[06:10] <LeeColleton> by the way, "sudo -s" opens a shell session with root access
[06:10] <whiprush> Jaramin: you can do 90% of that as a user.
[06:10] <phin> yep
[06:10] <whiprush> I swear, I do it every day
[06:10] <phin> i enabled my root account on ubuntu, but that was just from using it as habit
[06:10] <phin> i havent actually used it once in the last week or so
[06:10] <phlaegel> just open a root shell, or better, a normal shell, sudo vi blah, and leave it open while you work on it.
[06:10] <phin> just so used to sudo
[06:11] <phin> plus ive added sudo to a few servers i like it so much :)
[06:11] <whiprush> phlaegel: k, asking people smarter than me, sec.
[06:11] <ionrock> I can't even apt-cache without sudo just b/c I so used to "sudo apt-get..."
[06:13] <phin> i dont even think my system resembles anything of a ubuntu install anymore
[06:13] <phin> its totally changed
[06:13] <LeeColleton> Why oh why does apt-get invariably get an error when accessing archive.ubuntu.com for the first time?  The error is gzip: stdin: unexpected end of file
[06:14] <ionrock> I was getting that b/c I didn't comment out the standard non-universe lines in my sources.list
[06:14] <whiprush> phlaegel: yeah something is up because I'm building stuff right after your line 7. all the way down, yours is skipping something.
[06:14] <whiprush> libgconf-cil installed?
[06:14] <phlaegel> that's because that's not the first run of make
[06:14] <phlaegel> yep
[06:15] <whiprush> No, I deleted and started over
[06:15] <whiprush> lemme double check
[06:15] <phlaegel> no, it's not my first run of make.
[06:16] <phin> think removing dbus would be a bad idea?
[06:16] <phin> is it needed
[06:16] <whiprush> yes
[06:16] <defendguin> anyone have a gaim-vv for ubuntu?
[06:16] <phlaegel> whiprush: http://pastebin.com/108321
[06:16] <phlaegel> that's after make clea
[06:16] <phlaegel> n
[06:16] <phin> whip, example of what exactly is using it?
[06:16] <joem> phin, hal
[06:17] <phin> ah ok
[06:17] <phin> i wonder if i really need hal
[06:17] <phlaegel> yes you do. stop.
[06:17] <joem> :)
[06:17] <LeeColleton> defendguin: is gaim-vv the encryption capable version?
[06:17] <phin> i mean i know its part of ubuntu
[06:17] <phin> but like i said
[06:17] <phlaegel> start removing that stuff, you're removing all the cool stuff ubuntu does now and will do.
[06:17] <joem> gaim-encryption is a seperate package
[06:17] <phin> this system isnt even ubuntu anymore
[06:17] <phin> lol
[06:18] <phlaegel> whiprush: that second paste look more like your build?
[06:18] <whiprush> yeah, up until about the errors
[06:18] <phlaegel> right
[06:18] <whiprush> how about I send you my package list and you diff it
[06:18] <phlaegel> k
[06:18] <phlaegel> email?
[06:19] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: I'm trying to build tomboy but ./configure is complaining that I don't have package 'gdk-2.0'
[06:19] <defendguin> LeeColleton, voice and video
[06:20] <joem> LeeColleton, libgtk-dev
[06:20] <whiprush> phlaegel: http://www.arslinux.com/~jorge/gentoo.txt
[06:20] <LeeColleton> joem: is there an ubuntu package of gaim-encryption?
[06:20] <joem> LeeColleton, not that I know of
[06:20] <LeeColleton> joem: I get 'Note, selecting libgtk1.2-dev instead of libgtk-dev' and that it's already installed
[06:20] <joem> not 1.2
[06:20] <joem> 2.0
[06:21] <LeeColleton> joem: right, what?
[06:21] <joem> libgtk-2.0-dev
[06:21] <joem> er libgtk2.0-dev
[06:21] <phlaegel> whiprush: dumb debian question... where's the package list? :-)
[06:21] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:21] <whiprush> apt-get -uf install
[06:21] <LeeColleton> joem: sorted.  thanks
[06:21] <whiprush>               `cat packagelist.txt`
[06:22] <whiprush> oops, you get the idea
[06:22] <whiprush> oh, you mean of your currently installe dstuff?
[06:22] <phlaegel> right
[06:22] <phlaegel> same list you did
[06:22] <whiprush> dpkg --get-selections | grep '[[:space:] ] install$' | awk '{print $1}'
[06:22] <phlaegel> see, I would've had to know that
[06:22] <whiprush> > whatever.txt
[06:23] <phin> oh sweet
[06:23] <ionrock> whoa, you can do apt-cache --help and get the syspkg or something like that to list what you have
[06:23] <phin> thanks whip :)
[06:23] <whiprush> phin: ok, here's the ninja part.
[06:23] <whiprush> you export that as a .txt
[06:23] <ionrock> apt-cache pkgnames
[06:23] <whiprush> then, when you install on another machine
[06:23] <phin> right i get it
[06:23] <phin> thats cool
[06:23] <whiprush> reimport that package list
[06:23] <whiprush> woo.
[06:24] <phin> yep
[06:24] <mooj> ok i got a problem
[06:24] <phin> thats definitly fresh
[06:24] <mooj> whenever i try to compile something
[06:24] <phin> i just made an exportdeblist script :P
[06:24] <whiprush> copy over a /home on a usb drive and you're good to go.
[06:24] <mooj> i get a "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH" error
[06:24] <mooj> i cant compile everything
[06:24] <mooj> er anything
[06:25] <whiprush> do you have gcc installed?
[06:25] <mooj> yeah
[06:25] <phlaegel> install build-essential ?
[06:25] <whiprush> fabbione: morning 
[06:26] <phlaegel> whiprush: you have a couple hundred packages installed that I don't :-)
[06:26] <whiprush> heh
[06:26] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: sorry, another tomboy ./configure snag;  No package 'gtk-sharp' found.  apt-cache doesn't show it
[06:26] <joem> LeeColleton, are you using tsengs mono repo?
[06:27] <phlaegel> try libgtk-cil
[06:28] <mooj> thanks guys
[06:28] <mooj> i needed build essential
[06:28] <phlaegel> interestingly, I have no gdk packages installed at all, but older tomboy cvs *did* build.
[06:28] <mooj> that should be a default installed package
[06:29] <mooj> if there are any ubuntu devs in the room
[06:29] <joem> mooj, lots of people don't need them
[06:29] <mooj> i dont see how
[06:29] <phlaegel> not really, the majority of ubuntu's target audience does not need dev tools
[06:29] <LeeColleton> joem: I'm not sure, so.. probably not.  I have a slew of mono packages installed from somewhere.
[06:29] <mooj> well to compile source
[06:29] <joem> ubuntu provides a binary desktop
[06:29] <mooj> there are so many packages that arent in apt
[06:29] <mooj> or rpm
[06:29] <phlaegel> average people do not compile source. they've never even heard of it.
[06:29] <joem> average users are fine with what is offered
[06:30] <joem> if you are compiling stuff from source, you move into the should know what you are doing group
[06:30] <WW_> Does an average user need vim?
[06:30] <phlaegel> average is the wrong word. I think 'most' is the right word.
[06:30] <mooj> with linux being the way it is presently, c dev tools are a must, i'm using gcc right now to compile webcam support for gaim
[06:30] <mooj> this is something a normal user would use
[06:30] <phlaegel> WW_: no, but it's a valuable system tool that is far more likely to be needed than a compiler.
[06:30] <joem> WW_, need to have some sort of cli editor incase something goes wrong and you need to trouble shoot
[06:31] <mooj> yeah you need a console text editor
[06:31] <ionrock> I remember when I made the effor to go from "average" to "power" and it was nice to have a little success at first
[06:31] <mooj> what would you do if you screwed you x conf
[06:31] <phlaegel> mooj: a normal user would never think "hm, in order to use my webcam, I'll have to find the source and compile a driver"
[06:31] <mooj> exactly
[06:31] <ionrock> I compile bluefish and it was pretty thrilling ;)
[06:31] <WW_> How many editors are installed by default? (Just curious.)
[06:31] <mooj> but linux being the way it is currently
[06:31] <mooj> you need to have them there
[06:31] <joem> I haven't had to compile anything yet
[06:32] <phlaegel> no you don't. and you don't progress by doing things the way you've always done them.
[06:32] <whiprush> guys, there's like 13,000 packages available via universe.
[06:32] <joem> accept gaim once to get the headers..
[06:32] <whiprush> that's like ... all of them
[06:32] <mooj> unless ubuntu has a team of people going out there and finding every lib they can and compiling them and adding them to apt
[06:32] <LeeColleton> whiprush: gaim-encryption isn't in there ;-)
[06:32] <mooj> you need gcc
[06:32] <joem> LeeColleton, I bet if you look around you could find a deb for it
[06:32] <phlaegel> I think the only thing I've compiled on ubuntu so far is tomboy, just because I want to see if I can contribute. not an average user kind of thing.
[06:32] <defendguin> there are a lot of projects that arnt there
[06:33] <whiprush> LeeColleton: heh, there is a .deb, but not in debian either.
[06:33] <defendguin> i think gnomefiles.org should start buidling debs and rpms of every package
[06:33] <LeeColleton> joem: yes, one that I had to forceably install and it caused all sorts of error messages every time I ran apt-get
[06:33] <phlaegel> <average user> encryption? I just want to talk to my friends!!!!1
[06:33] <phlaegel> s/to/2/g ;-)
[06:34] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: I agree that state of mind pervades many computer users, but it's one that can and should change.
[06:34] <Treenaks> phlaegel: just show them ethereal output from when they're chatting
[06:34] <phlaegel> no, it shouldn't. people want to *use* computers, not *manage* them.
[06:34] <Treenaks> phlaegel: "I can read what you're saying"
[06:34] <mooj> to help move linux along
[06:34] <phlaegel> <average user> so? I don't have anything to hide
[06:35] <joem> best sort of encryption, c u l8
[06:35] <mooj> i think sourceforge and freshmeat should require their project to product packages
[06:35] <mooj> either rpm or apt
[06:35] <Treenaks> phlaegel: Ah, so you don't lock the door when you go to the toilet?
[06:35] <joem> mooj, why, because they feel like wasting the extra disk space
[06:35] <phlaegel> heh... I didn't say it was my arguement...
[06:35] <ranman> mooj: Is there a patch for gaim that is from the gaim-vv that you know of?
[06:35] <joem> ranman, no
[06:35] <Treenaks> phlaegel: I know, it's just that for every 'common user' statement there's a counterargument
[06:35] <defendguin> ranman, you just have to get gaim-vv
[06:36] <Treenaks> phlaegel: "Would you write this on a postcard?" is a nice one ;)
[06:36] <phlaegel> true, and the average users don't care. I've tried.
[06:36] <defendguin> and i havent seen a deb for it yet
[06:36] <phlaegel> ok, most average users. some get it with good explanations.
[06:36] <mooj> ranman: gaim-vv.sourceforge.net/download.html
[06:36] <Treenaks> phlaegel: but I agree, it should be as automatic as possible
[06:37] <joem> wouldn't write it on a postcard, but wouldn't go out of my way incase some random person happens to be waiting with a packet scanner running either
[06:37] <joem> takes a lot of work to spy on some random persons boring conversation
[06:37] <phlaegel> Treenaks: which is why I like ubuntu so much so far. they seem to be on the same wavelength as me. :-)
[06:37] <Treenaks> phlaegel: same here :)
[06:37] <WW_> I am updating hal (using Synaptic), and now it says that /etc/dbus-1/event.d/hal has been modified "by you or by a script"
[06:38] <joem> WW_, means the the new package contains a different config file then what is already there
[06:38] <joem> you probably want to update it, as most users wouldn't change that file for any reason
[06:38] <WW_> I don't think I ever modified it.
[06:38] <ranman> mooj: yes, I have gaim-vv at /usr/local & gaim at /usr... Just annoying to switch back and forth..
[06:38] <WW_> Right
[06:38] <joem> ranman, why do you need to switch back and forth
[06:38] <joem> can't you just use wv?
[06:38] <ranman> maybe I will make my own patch.
[06:39] <WW_> joem: So "Install the package maintainer's version" is probably the correct choice?
[06:39] <whiprush> phlaegel: so your tomboy working now?
[06:39] <ranman> maybe I did not compile correctly, gaim-vv has no sound and icons (chatbuddy icons)..
[06:39] <phlaegel> still digging
[06:39] <joem> WW_, yea
[06:39] <whiprush> k
[06:40] <joem> ranman, it should have what ever gaim had at the point of the fork
[06:40] <joem> I know it had sound :)
[06:40] <Treenaks> joem: isn't gaim-vv feending the changes back into the main gaim tree?
[06:40] <ranman> hmmm, recheck my compile options.. It is annoying to not have sound and minimized window..
[06:40] <joem> Treenaks, only the features they want
[06:41] <Treenaks> joem: don't they want webcam support?
[06:41] <joem> I don't think they want a (from what I hear) buggy video patch
[06:41] <ranman> Treenaks: I think that they are waiting for the ability to send your webcam..
[06:42] <ranman> ayttc has both, and using the same library.. But it is ugly as hell..
[06:42] <LeeColleton> so which gtk-sharp package do I need to compile tomboy?
[06:43] <phlaegel> didn't libgtk-cil work?
[06:43] <LeeColleton> libgtk-cil??
[06:43] <LeeColleton> edd: Couldn't find package libgtk-cil
[06:43] <LeeColleton> edd: oops, nevermind
[06:44] <whiprush> phlaegel: you try building ifolder recently perchance?
[06:44] <WW_> That was weird.  Why would an upgrade (in Synaptic) start a couple file browsers?
[06:44] <phlaegel> haven't tried it yet
[06:44] <phlaegel> whiprush: does it even work yet? ;-)
[06:45] <whiprush> I have it sort of working
[06:45] <phlaegel> heh
[06:45] <WW_> ...one in /home, and one in /
[06:45] <LeeColleton> where is the libgtk-cil package?
[06:45] <phlaegel> WW_: it's because of the hal upgrade/restart, afaik
[06:45] <whiprush> I'm positive it's a pebkac error though. At that ohiolinux thing the novell guy was using it, and NLD releases this month. So if it's not working then I must have messed something up.
[06:46] <phlaegel> LeeColleton: I got it from the tseng's source along with the other mono stuff
[06:46] <whiprush> problem is, I haven't run into anyone that has gotten it working yet
[06:46] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: got it
[06:46] <phlaegel> seems like ifolder could be really handy if it got integrated nicely into gnome (or other environments/filers)
[06:46] <WW_> phlaegel: Is it _supposed_ to do that?  Or is it a bug?
[06:46] <linux_mafia> whiprush, what you trying to get working?
[06:46] <whiprush> phlaegel: it has nautilus integration
[06:46] <mooj> gdk isnt in apt?
[06:46] <whiprush> linux_mafia: ifolder
[06:47] <linux_mafia> oh, ok
[06:47] <phlaegel> WW_: probably a minor bug. when hal restarts, gnome-volume-manager notices a bunch of new devices and opens them...
[06:47] <phlaegel> whiprush: is it *good* nautilus integration?
[06:47] <whiprush> yeah
[06:47] <whiprush> you right click on the folder
[06:47] <whiprush> click share
[06:47] <whiprush> add users
[06:47] <mooj> gdk isnt in apt?
[06:47] <whiprush> done and done
[06:47] <phlaegel> nice
[06:47] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: now it's complaining there is no gnome-sharp package.. what would this be called?  libgnome-something-or-other?
[06:48] <phlaegel> what about connecting to shares started by someone else?
[06:48] <whiprush> dunno, it's hard to follow
[06:48] <mooj> gnome sharp is in a seperate repository
[06:48] <phlaegel> LeeColleton: probably libgnome-cil
[06:48] <whiprush> they don't update a changelong in cvs. you have to scan every single commit
[06:48] <phlaegel> oh, that's handy
[06:49] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: so it is.  Is there a list of these packages somewhere?
[06:49] <phlaegel> search for cil in synaptic
[06:49] <phlaegel> cil == Common Language Infrastructure (aka the core of .net)
[06:51] <yuri> I have NEC DVD+RW connected to my ubuntu pc through firewire but I dont see an icon for it like I see for usb devices. what is wrong?
[06:52] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: I got tomboy compiled.  Thanks for your help!
[06:53] <yuri> (sorry, I am not sure if this is the right channel for this kind of post)
[06:53] <phin> is hal pretty cpu intensive?
[06:53] <phlaegel> np. now help me. ;-)
[06:53] <phin> like, is it constantly scanning?
[06:53] <whiprush> I think it works on interrupts
[06:53] <whiprush> but I don't know anything about anything
[06:53] <phlaegel> phin: I think it just updates based on hotplug events
[06:53] <whiprush> so I have no idea
[06:53] <phin> ok
[06:53] <phin> thats what i figured
[06:53] <phin> i got this laptop running pretty speedy :)
[06:53] <phlaegel> or probably the new kernel events stuff
[06:54] <whiprush> yuri: do you know if your kernel detects the drive?
[06:54] <phin> 100% custom gtk and flux themes as well :)
[06:54] <whiprush> ie check /var/log/syslog and see if it mentions the drive?
[06:54] <phlaegel> whiprush: I can't find any packages that you have that make a difference... I'm going to post on the tomboy mailing list.
[06:54] <yuri> how can I find out about that?
[06:54] <whiprush> k
[06:55] <whiprush> yuri: do this
[06:55] <phlaegel> thanks for trying :-)
[06:55] <yuri> ok. let me check
[06:55] <linux_mafia> whiprush, did you install ifolder from cvs or alien the rpms? i couldnt see src files, but i am half blind :)
[06:55] <whiprush> open up a terminal. then do 'tail -f /var/log/syslog'
[06:55] <whiprush> then plug in the drive
[06:55] <whiprush> if it detects it, it should spit out a bunch of stuff
[06:56] <whiprush> linux_mafia: both.
[06:56] <whiprush> I don't think they do source tarballs
[06:56] <whiprush> they have a cvs though
[06:56] <whiprush> sec
[06:56] <whiprush> http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/cvs/cvspage.php/ifolder/ <--- cvs intructions
[06:56] <linux_mafia> whiprush, nah im looking at the site, couldnt see tars, but just thought id check with you
[06:57] <linux_mafia> whiprush, did aliened rpms work ?
[06:57] <yuri> whitprush: yes, it does!
[06:57] <whiprush> depends on the build linux_mafia. Usually they do
[06:58] <whiprush> as in work I mean "a gui launches and stuff."
[06:58] <whiprush> I haven't gotten it to sync with another machine though
[06:58] <linux_mafia> whiprush, ok, been meaning to check out ifolder for a while
[06:58] <whiprush> yuri: can you /msg me what it says please? 
[06:58] <whiprush> just cut and paste
[06:59] <whiprush> linux_mafia: I can't get it working in windows either. :-/
[06:59] <whiprush> and that's just a .exe.
[07:00] <calc> clee: what is the proper way to upgrade fc3 since up2date doesn't work right? yum or something like that?
[07:00] <linux_mafia> whiprush, bummer
[07:00] <clee> calc: yeah. yum update.
[07:00] <calc> ok
[07:00] <clee> calc: but you should really be using ubuntu anyway. Yum sucks.
[07:00] <linux_mafia> whiprush, they fixed it so it only works with suse enterprise server, heh
[07:01] <calc> i think i will reinstall fc3 before leaving tomorrow since i still haven't heard of a rebuild of pure64 d-i
[07:01] <whiprush> :(
[07:01] <calc> clee: hmm maybe i'll stick with ubuntu then :)
[07:01] <whiprush> heh, I chris lee.
[07:01] <whiprush> duh.
[07:01] <calc> only issue currently having is i have to run the dbg build
[07:01] <calc> since xserver-xfree86 loader is broken on amd64 for it
[07:02] <clee> whiprush: ?
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Reconnected to SBP-2 device
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node 0-00:1023: Max speed [S400]  - Max payload [1024] 
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node suspended: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061] 
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost udev[8286] : removing device node '/dev/sr0'
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node resumed: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061] 
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node changed: 0-01:1023 -> 0-02:1023
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: unsolicited response packet received - no tlabel match
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:17 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error reconnecting to SBP-2 device - reconnect timed-out
[07:02] <whiprush> dude
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error logging into SBP-2 device - login timed-out
[07:02] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Failed to reconnect to sbp2 device!
[07:02] <whiprush> ok
[07:02] <joem> ah
[07:02] <whiprush> next time, /msg me that
[07:02] <whiprush> heh
[07:02] <yuri> sorry, how do I do that...
[07:02] <clee> whiprush: what was the whole "I chris lee" comment about?
[07:02] <whiprush> clee: I didn't know who you were, heh.
[07:03] <calc> whiprush: yep two chris' talking to each other :)
[07:03] <whiprush> the "I" was a typo
[07:03] <joem> clee, he wants to be you
[07:03] <joem> like everybody else
[07:03] <clee> whiprush: Do you recognize me now? :)
[07:03] <clee> joem: Well, duh, dude.
[07:03] <whiprush> yuri: next time, do /msg whiprush hey dude
[07:03] <whiprush> then paste
[07:03] <phlaegel> ouch. dd'ing a cd to a file makes fam take 30% cpu, and nautilus 40%.
[07:03] <whiprush> clee: I, for one, welcome our new freedesktop.org overlords.
[07:03] <clee> hahahaha
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Reconnected to SBP-2 device
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node 0-00:1023: Max speed [S400]  - Max payload [1024] 
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node suspended: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061] 
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:02 localhost udev[8286] : removing device node '/dev/sr0'
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node resumed: ID:BUS[0-01:1023]   GUID[0030e00750000061] 
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: Node changed: 0-01:1023 -> 0-02:1023
[07:03] <clee> whiprush: :)
[07:03] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:16 localhost kernel: ieee1394: unsolicited response packet received - no tlabel match
[07:04] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:17 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error reconnecting to SBP-2 device - reconnect timed-out
[07:04] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Error logging into SBP-2 device - login timed-out
[07:04] <joem> ah
[07:04] <yuri> Oct  8 00:59:38 localhost kernel: ieee1394: sbp2: Failed to reconnect to sbp2 device!
[07:04] <yuri> like that?
[07:04] <whiprush> omg yuri, I kill you.
[07:04] <phlaegel> pastebin.com
[07:04] <joem> irc is the new pastebin
[07:04] <joem> didn't you hear
[07:04] <calc> hehehe
[07:04] <yuri> I guess I got to go to an FAQ first...
[07:04] <clee> orange is the new pink! LOL OMG WTF BBQ
[07:04] <LeeColleton> yuri: please be sensitive to people on low-speed connections and not paste loads of text
[07:04] <whiprush> omfg rololo
[07:05] <calc> i'm surprised he didn't flood himself off
[07:05] <whiprush> indeed
[07:05] <clee> yuri: dude, it's considered *very* rude to do that
[07:05] <clee> doesn't xchat rate limit anyway? :(
[07:05] <whiprush> omg ccheney also.
[07:05] <ranman> For the IRC noobies... "/msg $lusername $message"..
[07:05] <whiprush> damn this channel an it's star power.
[07:05] <clee> whiprush: Yep.
[07:06] <Treenaks> hey, a new flag in bugzilla
[07:07] <LeeColleton> tomboy takes a crap when I try to run it once it's been installed <http://pastebin.com/108324>
[07:08] <LeeColleton> do I have to do something silly and give users write access to the executable?
[07:08] <phlaegel> you need to run configure like this before compiling: ./configure --prefix=/usr/local
[07:08] <joem> it looks like it is in /usr/local
[07:09] <phlaegel> I just build stuff like that into ~/local
[07:09] <whiprush> hmm, I just ran autogen.sh and didn't have to do any of that fancy stuff phlaegel 
[07:09] <phlaegel> where's you install it?
[07:09] <phlaegel> joem: er, right. hm
[07:09] <joem> LeeColleton, don't run tomboy.exe
[07:09] <joem> run the wrapper in /usr/local/bin
[07:09] <samurai> anyone know why there was no debian sub-menu included in ubuntu, like there is under regular debian/gnome?
[07:09] <phlaegel> just run tomboy
[07:10] <phlaegel> heh
[07:10] <LeeColleton> joem: that's what I did.  /usr/local/bin/tomboy
[07:10] <joem> samurai, cause it isn't debian :)
[07:11] <phlaegel> whiprush: where'd you install tomboy to?
[07:11] <samurai> right right... ok then, why aren't there menu entries to deal with the 1000 programs that aren't debian that don't show up?
[07:11] <hazmat> samurai, because its trying to be sensible
[07:11] <joem> and because the applications don't use the freedesktop menu spec
[07:11] <joem> so they loose out
[07:11] <whiprush> phlaegel: /usr/local/bin/tomboy
[07:11] <whiprush> by default
[07:11] <phlaegel> oh, so that's the default.
[07:12] <phlaegel> didn't realize that. 
[07:12] <ranman> LeeColleton: isn't there a package for tomboy in apt?
[07:12] <joem> default is wherever the configure script sets it
[07:12] <phlaegel> I just automatically put stuff I build into ~/local
[07:12] <whiprush> man dude
[07:12] <phlaegel> joem: right, but not all apps set it to /usr/local
[07:12] <whiprush> I think gentoo damaged you more than I realized. :p
[07:12] <ranman> I just added it in my update..
[07:12] <joem> No manual entry for dude
[07:12] <LeeColleton> ranman: ha ha ha.  no
[07:12] <phlaegel> whiprush: gfy
[07:12] <whiprush> heh
[07:12] <LeeColleton> oh.  yes there is
[07:13] <ranman> haha
[07:13] <samurai> oh just curious it seems that regardless of the compatibility with the freedesktop menuing specicifcation that it is limiting to not include then in some type of menu
[07:13] <phlaegel> no silly root permissions to install to ~/local. (that's something I've only been doing since switching back to debian, btw. on gentoo I'd just make my own ebuild)
[07:13] <whiprush> clee/calc: so what brings you gents here? working with canonical or what?
[07:14] <joem> samurai, what doesn't it include in the menu that is important?
[07:14] <ranman> I miss my debian menu... Where is the freedesktop compatibility?
[07:14] <clee> whiprush: ha. no. I work for Red Hat, dude.
[07:14] <defendguin> woo hoo redhat
[07:14] <clee> whiprush: I have to keep an eye on our competition so that we can crush them easier. ;)
[07:14] <whiprush> clee: yeah I know ...
[07:14] <joem> ranman, applications use .desktop files that are used for placing menu entrys and now mime types
[07:14] <whiprush> happy community and all that. :p
[07:14] <ranman> The only integration tha I have seen of the menu is kde control center in the root of my menu.. confusing first time click..
[07:15] <samurai> well, important to one isn't necessarily important to another joem... for instance including mahjong isn't important for someone that doesn't play it, yet scribus could be really important if you want to do desktop publishing type stuff
[07:15] <joem> write the scribus author and tell him about the standards
[07:15] <clee> whiprush: I'm kidding. daniels is a good friend of mine and works for Canonical. And I love Debian distros.
[07:16] <clee> whiprush: I run all RHEL and Fedora Core at work
[07:16] <joem> it is easy for packages to add a .desktop file, probably just need to be made aware of it
[07:16] <clee> and all ubuntu at home :)
[07:16] <whiprush> clee: yeah I know. No need to explain to me. I dig your guy's work.
[07:16] <samurai> ok i'm confused, what does the standards have to do with it.... doesn't being included in the menu just invoke the program... how does it differ from running from the commandline?
[07:17] <clee> whiprush: I hate RPM. :) - but I really love the stuff that we at RH do for the community at large, so I have no qualms about working there
[07:17] <whiprush> clee: got to check out walters' presentation on selinux at last weekends ohio linuxfest.
[07:17] <whiprush> some damn fine work going on there.
[07:17] <phlaegel> I want fedora's auth config tool on ubuntu :-)
[07:17] <clee> whiprush: heh. yeah, walters rules. :)
[07:17] <joem> samurai, if they want it to be included in the menu, they need to install a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications
[07:17] <calc> clee: after reading the rpm guide rpm doesn't seem so bad, just different vs deb ;)
[07:17] <whiprush> I don't hate rpm.
[07:17] <joem> that was the problem wasn't it, that there was no menu entry for it?
[07:17] <clee> calc: meh. it's not that RPM as a package format is bad, it's just that it seems like most of the packages suck.
[07:18] <calc> clee: yea
[07:18] <whiprush> people just compare rpm to apt, which is dumb. We'd be just as broken if we were installing .debs by hand all day
[07:18] <phlaegel> I don't think I've had a good yum experience yet.
[07:18] <samurai> joem: so then the menus are basically autogenerated based on the file in the /usr/share/applications directory?
[07:18] <clee> whiprush: well, part of the problem is that there isn't nearly as nice of a separation with RPM as there is with the dpkg utils
[07:18] <joem> samurai, yes
[07:18] <calc> whiprush: well rpm the format does have some limitations and doesn't have someone backing it like eg deb == debian (with debian policy) etc
[07:18] <clee> RPM is much more monolithic - One Command to Rule Them All
[07:18] <joem> look at a .desktop file in that dir for an example
[07:18] <samurai> how does debian deal with this under there implementation of gnome?
[07:19] <linux_mafia> and what of apt4rpm? you guys thinks thats good?
[07:19] <joem> they might add those files to packages that don't have them
[07:19] <whiprush> yeah, but 90% of people whining about RPM is some dude downloading from Joe's Cool RPMs for some wrong version and wondering why it's broken
[07:19] <joem> have never used debian
[07:19] <whiprush> fc should abstract rpm from the user more.
[07:19] <clee> whiprush: totally.
[07:19] <calc> samurai: the menu itself isn't generated but the items in subsections are
[07:19] <whiprush> "dude, just use yum/whatever."
[07:19] <samurai> joem: to bad.... oh well
[07:19] <calc> er that didn't come out quite right
[07:19] <samurai> calc: is there documentation on this somewhere?
[07:20] <linux_mafia> always thought it was odd that connectiva was the first to make an apt/rpm package
[07:20] <calc> the sections in the menu are hardcoded really but they state which categories go in each
[07:20] <whiprush> linux_mafia: apt4rpm works great
[07:20] <calc> samurai: freedesktop.org
[07:20] <joem> http://freedesktop.org/Standards/menu-spec
[07:20] <calc> samurai: the xdg, desktop, menu specs
[07:20] <whiprush> but the problem with FC as a distro has nothing to do with rpm or apt.
[07:20] <samurai> thanks joem
[07:20] <whiprush> the problem is dozens of repos stepping on each other
[07:20] <calc> samurai: btw i wrote menu-xdg (which is what kde uses in debian)
[07:21] <calc> and aiui there are still some bugs in there somewhere, need to look into it
[07:21] <linux_mafia> whiprush, i agree, and i hate there are multiple versions of apt itself
[07:21] <whiprush> instead of one base repo that everyone builds off of, you've got 15 guys packaging totem.
[07:21] <whiprush> and they all conflict.
[07:21] <calc> maybe during one of the hack sessions at gnome summit ;)
[07:21] <samurai> I guess I find the current scheme makes it really difficult for the user to change or tweak menus
[07:21] <ranman> damn lag...
[07:21] <whiprush> and 0 guys packaging the one thing you need.
[07:21] <samurai> calc: thats cool....
[07:21] <whiprush> linux_mafia: right
[07:21] <joem> samurai, menus or the items in the menu?
[07:21] <calc> samurai: its possible to change by the user, but i think one of the issues is that my code is slightly buggy
[07:21] <linux_mafia> whiprush, and that the bloody apts install there own source list
[07:21] <whiprush> yes
[07:21] <whiprush> ATrpms
[07:21] <whiprush> the worse
[07:21] <calc> i think i hardcoded something somewhere that shouldn't have been
[07:21] <samurai> not sure what the difference is joem?
[07:21] <defendguin> whiprush, i agree totally
[07:21] <whiprush> that dude replaces stuff that should never be replaced
[07:22] <whiprush> what the heck is up with that
[07:22] <calc> one of the kde dev's posted about it a while back
[07:22] <joem> adding a new catagory or adding an app under a catagory 
[07:22] <samurai> definitely the items in a menu
[07:22] <joem> gnome menu you can just right click add item
[07:22] <linux_mafia> i use dag and that was it, he seems to do a pretty good job
[07:22] <linux_mafia> *used
[07:22] <clee> dag is a fucking good packager.
[07:22] <linux_mafia> clee, amen
[07:23] <whiprush> I suppose debian is a total opposite of that, you get one nice, cohesive repo, but 15 guys arguing over how to do it right, so you end up waiting anyway.
[07:23] <clee> whiprush: heheheheh. exactly.
[07:23] <whiprush> which is probably why we're all here.
[07:23] <linux_mafia> whiprush, precisely
[07:23] <clee> whiprush: which is why Canonical is nice. :)
[07:23] <whiprush> yes.
[07:23] <samurai> joem: true... I guess I just like to get into an editor where I visualize the whole thing a little better, 
[07:23] <clee> you get 30+ guys all going "THIS IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO FUCKING DO IT" and then they fucking do it
[07:23] <whiprush> yeah word.
[07:23] <samurai> kinda retro I know joe
[07:23] <calc> whiprush: and a couple people who notoriously drag their feet *cough*
[07:23] <samurai> s/joe/joem
[07:23] <joem> samurai, ah, like an openbox type xml file?
[07:24] <whiprush> man clee, I just fired up my fedora box.
[07:24] <samurai> yes exactly joem
[07:24] <whiprush> 10 dudes packaging rhythymbox, 8 are a version behind.
[07:24] <joem> clee, put that description on the wiki front page
[07:24] <joem> its a good one
[07:24] <whiprush> good game!
[07:24] <joem> samurai, I like those menus as well
[07:24] <clee> joem: heh.
[07:24] <clee> joem: probably a little too vulgar for "front page" material :)
[07:24] <whiprush> calc: yeah, but it's hard to fault the big D though.
[07:24] <joem> maybe at the bottom of the page then
[07:25] <calc> someone should just fork fedora and make it open like debian ;)
[07:25] <samurai> joem: gives the more savy user another dimension for menu manipultation
[07:25] <clee> whiprush: meh. I would kind of trust walters' packages of rb, personally...
[07:25] <calc> then package everything for it
[07:25] <joem> yea
[07:25] <calc> clee: hehe, yea :)
[07:25] <whiprush> 2 months ago I thought I'd be a debian user my entire life. Then ubuntu whipped me into shape.
[07:25] <linux_mafia> i used debian for 4+ years, then fedora for a couple of months, felt like some spit and polish, just when i was about to go back to debian, bam! ubuntu comes out, best of both worlds
[07:25] <whiprush> well, I guess I'm still a debian user in a way.
[07:25] <punkass> defendguin: u are still here :)
[07:25] <clee> heh.
[07:25] <whiprush> clee: walters rules. He's all quiet and reserved.
[07:25] <clee> whiprush: heh. until you introduce him to your mom.
[07:26] <whiprush> I snagged harshy and I was like "dude, you need to sacrifice your ipod to walters so I can get my support."
[07:26] <whiprush> he did not like this.
[07:26] <calc> clee: colin "stifler" walters? ;)
[07:26] <whiprush> yeah though, that selinux stuff was pimp. great stuff.
[07:27] <whiprush> linux_mafia: heh I was the same way.
[07:27] <clee> walters has this awesome obsession with MILFs
[07:27] <calc> hahaha
[07:27] <clee> well, I dunno if it's really MILFs or just moms of coworkers
[07:27] <clee> but he's very fond of saying "Your mama" in response to pretty much anything
[07:28] <defendguin> punkass ya
[07:28] <whiprush> linux_mafia: I have this theory with fedora and debian. Fedora gets me 80% there in 30 minutes. Debian gets me 100% there in 3 days.
[07:28] <punkass> i just wished i found ubuntu..before installing a pile of other distros...would have saved me lots o time
[07:28] <joem> "dude where is tagging support" "uh, I left it at your moms last night"
[07:28] <whiprush> ubuntu get's me 90% there in an hour. 
[07:28] <clee> joem: heh. exactly.
[07:28] <calc> heh
[07:28] <clee> joem: or another conversation, where walters and clarkbw were arguing about something
[07:29] <clee> and then: <walters> clarkbw, you'd better shut up before I give you a little brother or sister
[07:29] <punkass> got a peek at those icons..pretty nice...i think was think of something with more detail tho
[07:29] <joem> haha
[07:29] <punkass> not sure :) guess ill know when i see it
[07:29] <calc> clee: heh he seemed to always be quiet when he was a DD ;)
[07:29] <clee> calc: I think we're bringing him out of his shell.
[07:30] <calc> be afraid very afraid ;)
[07:30] <whiprush> you're both so very bad peoples.
[07:30] <clee> oh, wait
[07:30] <clee> it wasn't "shut up"
[07:31] <clee> 01:43 -!- clee changed the topic of #devel to: 22:42 <walters> clarkbw: you better watch out, or i'm going to give you a little brother or sister.
[07:31] <clee> god, I love IRC logs
[07:31] <whiprush> phlaegel: tomboy working yet?
[07:31] <phlaegel> nope. just sending to the ml
[07:31] <whiprush> I feel the need to lash out about that retarded icon it's using
[07:32] <phlaegel> I like it. tintin rules.
[07:32] <phlaegel> relevance shmelavance
[07:32] <calc> clee: internal redhat irc channel?
[07:32] <whiprush> my notification area is looking all windows lately
[07:32] <clee> calc: heh. yeah.
[07:32] <phlaegel> whiprush: it's going to become an applet at some point.
[07:32] <whiprush> yeah
[07:32] <whiprush> everyone says that
[07:33] <joem> it should, it doesn't meet the notification spec
[07:33] <whiprush> clee: so wotcha work on for the hat? X?
[07:33] <defendguin> punkass i like the one with the circles and i fixed it a bit but it can still use more work
[07:34] <punkass> defendguin: cool
[07:34] <whiprush> joem: funny how nothing in my notification area ever meets that spec.
[07:34] <defendguin> punkass more detail doesnt always come out when you are making icons
[07:34] <whiprush> well, epiphany does it right
[07:34] <defendguin> because they get shrunk
[07:34] <punkass> very true
[07:34] <Walza> im wondering if anyone could help me
[07:34] <whiprush> Walza: just ask
[07:35] <Walza> i have 2 cards that alsa picks up
[07:35] <Walza> one card is a bt878 tv card
[07:35] <joem> whiprush, blam does :)
[07:35] <phlaegel> Walza: same thing here. just a sec, got a fix for you here.
[07:35] <Walza> and one is ac97 sound card
[07:35] <joem> I don't know of anything else that does, but the spec is new
[07:36] <Walza> phlaegel: thanks mate
[07:36] <whiprush> joem: well, you get my idea. It's becoming a wasteland of apps or something.
[07:36] <joem> most people will probably ignore the spec because the best feature of the notify area is that is is cross desktop platform
[07:36] <whiprush> yes. :(
[07:36] <phlaegel> Walza: just to make sure, the bt card is detected as card 0, killing your sound, right?
[07:36] <Walza> and yeah /dev/audio /dev/dsp get assigned to the tv card - gnomes doesnt like it
[07:37] <Walza> phlaegel: yeap thats it
[07:37] <crimsun> index=1 for the bttv card
[07:37] <crimsun> index=0 for the other
[07:37] <phlaegel> Walza: put http://crapbox.org/asoundrc in your home dir as .asoundrc
[07:38] <phlaegel> that's what I use
[07:38] <LeeColleton> why is it that tomboy will run once and then not a second time?  If I rm -rf .tomboy I can get one run out of it but the second run comes up blank
[07:38] <Walza> can i have it global in /etc/asound.conf?
[07:38] <whiprush> ok, I must be an idiot, but someone explain to me why tomboy is better than say, the existing postit applet?
[07:38] <phlaegel> Walza: probably
[07:38] <crimsun> yes
[07:38] <joem> whiprush, it works kind of like a wiki
[07:38] <ranman> Walza: You are using vfl2?
[07:38] <joem> you can have links to other notes
[07:38] <phlaegel> whiprush: because it's a personal wiki
[07:38] <Jaramin> whiprush: I've taken a closer look to the linux permission system, and understand a bit more the orientation of your previous answers ;)
[07:39] <whiprush> Jaramin: excellent.
[07:39] <ranman> oops v4l2
[07:39] <Walza> ranman: what ever comes in the stock 2.6 kernel 
[07:39] <whiprush> Jaramin: windows is the same way also. Learn about fast user switching. Same idea.
[07:39] <phlaegel> whiprush: I never found the sticky notes applet useful, but I'm using tomboy constantly.
[07:39] <Walza> ranman: i think your right
[07:39] <whiprush> phlaegel: ok, I'll give it a go then
[07:39] <joem> tomboy will be really nice when it gets evo integration
[07:39] <phlaegel> yes
[07:39] <phlaegel> and bullets
[07:40] <whiprush> Jaramin: don't think of it as a cage. Think of it as a seatbelt.
[07:40] <joem> I would use it more often
[07:40] <joem> but my life is boring, so I don't have to note things down
[07:40] <defendguin> punkass if you are here tomoorrow i will show you an improved one
[07:40] <whiprush> ugh
[07:40] <defendguin> just remind me
[07:40] <joem> take a nap with a link to getting up
[07:40] <ranman> ic.. hmm, I have not used the 2.6 kernel in my box at home that has the tv card.. My tv card is plugged into the tv audio of my soundcard and all bttv wil go into /dev/v4l/
[07:40] <whiprush> phlaegel: I've spent my life trying to get away from wikis.
[07:40] <punkass> ok will do
[07:40] <whiprush> and now this is good?
[07:40] <LeeColleton> yes, but the postit applet runs every time I click on it.  Tomboy only runs once.  The second time I get a big fat NOTHING
[07:40] <phlaegel> it's a faster, simpler wiki
[07:40] <LeeColleton> (until I rm -rf .tomboy , as mentioned)
[07:41] <whiprush> phlaegel: WhatDoYouMean?
[07:41] <phlaegel> I mean, if you don't like, don't use, of course, but you'd be wrong. ;-)
[07:41] <whiprush> heh
[07:41] <Walza> phlaegel: have you entered it as a bug in the bugzilla?
[07:41] <phlaegel> Walza: nope
[07:41] <joem> whiprush, http://www.beatniksoftware.com/tomboy/
[07:41] <joem> the screen shot is a good example
[07:41] <Jaramin> whiprush: so I'll ask for something that would probably be more fitting, though I'm not sure it's easily feasible... let's say I'm in a folder in nautilus. I want to delete a file, but need to be root to do so. I don't want to use the command line (even if I can). Would it be possible to add some sort of "delete as root" button or context menu entry?
[07:41] <whiprush> yeah I'm playing with it now
[07:41] <joem> Jaramin, yes
[07:41] <phlaegel> Jaramin: yes. you want a nautilus script.
[07:42] <joem> a simple one line nautilus script that does gksudo rm file or something
[07:42] <Jaramin> yay! now I'm talking the same language as you I guess :P
[07:42] <clee> ... isn't it smarter for Nautilus just to prompt for a password if it detects that it doesn't have sufficient permissions to delete something?
[07:42] <Walza> phlaegel: yeah been tossing up the idea of entering it - but its not really a bug
[07:42] <whiprush> dude.
[07:42] <joem> clee, shh
[07:42] <phlaegel> clee: that would be smarter, definitely
[07:42] <whiprush> what are you deleting?
[07:42] <whiprush> and why?
[07:43] <Walza> ranman: yeah it works right out of the box with the 2.6 kernel
[07:43] <defendguin> why is gaim-encryption not in ubuntu or universe?
[07:43] <phlaegel> Walza: it would be an enhancement, I guess, or a minor bug. It would be nice to have it not make a tv card the default alsa device
[07:43] <clee> defendguin: because g-e is crack
[07:43] <whiprush> it's not in debian either
[07:43] <Jaramin> whiprush: log files. I'm using ipac-ng and I need to delete log files.
[07:43] <jdub> defendguin: remember we froze in around june...
[07:43] <defendguin> doesnt relly offer protection?
[07:44] <phlaegel> Walza: if you don't want to enter it, let me know and I will.
[07:44] <Walza> phlaegel thanks for your help matey muchy apperated
[07:44] <phlaegel> np
[07:44] <Walza> next time i see bob2 in person ill hassle him about it hehehe
[07:44] <Walza> :)
[07:45] <phlaegel> you can do that *and* enter it in bugzilla so it doesn't get lost :-)
[07:45] <whiprush> Jaramin: admin function. For that you'll need to sudo to. The "right way" is to set it up so it rotates properly, do you don't need to delete by hand.
[07:45] <Jaramin> whiprush: I guess it would be harder to really integrate it as clee said, but how about a just some sort of "delete as root" context entry, is it something I could make myslef?
[07:45] <ranman> I went to ifolder site after the discussion here, and seems that Novell is porting everything linux to netware.. Why not just go linux?
[07:45] <phlaegel> Jaramin: yep. nautilus scripts.
[07:45] <Walza> ok ok you win hehe
[07:46] <joem> Jaramin, with a nautilus script yea. 
[07:46] <whiprush> ranman: they are.
[07:46] <clee> Jaramin: oh, of course it'd be harder to do it the way I suggested... but I think that in this case, it'd be "The Right Way"
[07:46] <phlaegel> can't remember the script dir though...
[07:46] <ranman> I know that they bought the linux stuff, just seems that all the ifolder projects are linux ports to netware..
[07:46] <Jaramin> joem: cool, got any place to get me started?
[07:46] <joem> clee, stop spreading your dirty anti-gnome propagandha
[07:46] <LeeColleton> It is seriously useless to have to forceably remove .tomboy and lose all my notes everytime I startup my system.  Could this be caused by installing, then uninstalling tomboy from source and then installing the tomboy package?
[07:47] <Jaramin> clee: I guess so, but I need a quick and dirty solution now
[07:47] <joem> Jaramin, hmm yea just a sec
[07:47] <linux_mafia> i hate tintin
[07:47] <whiprush> ranman: the old versions of ifolder were netware products. most of their pages are out of date
[07:47] <phlaegel> Jaramin: try creating a script in ~/.nautilus/scripts and see if it appears on the context menu.
[07:47] <whiprush> ranman: ie. they mention 2.x or whatever
[07:47] <phlaegel> tintin rules
[07:47] <ranman> ic..
[07:47] <whiprush> LeeColleton: no idea how to help you. :(
[07:48] <linux_mafia> captain haddock was the shit
[07:48] <whiprush> ranman: they're a large company, my local salesman didn't even know about ifolder.
[07:48] <whiprush> takes time, etc.
[07:48] <whiprush> I was like "hey, can someone answer some questions about ifolder?"
[07:49] <whiprush> he was like "yeah, we plan to OSS it soon!"
[07:49] <whiprush> they GPLed it in May.
[07:50] <calc> ranman: NLD comes out RSN, maybe end of this month even
[07:50] <whiprush> yeah that's what they told me too
[07:50] <whiprush> end of the month
[07:50] <calc> joem: clee has to keep it up at the gnome summit for comic relief ;)
[07:51] <jdub> they can't compete with the ubuntu juggernaut ;)
[07:51] <calc> joem: he does gnome at work and kde at home, heh :)
[07:51] <clee> calc: yep.
[07:51] <joem> I know
[07:51] <clee> jdub: I hope you guys *crush* Novell
[07:52] <Jaramin> phlaegel: no, it doesn't show up (actually, there isn't a scripts folder there, I had to create one)
[07:52] <clee> jdub: We need a *decent* competitor, y'know? ;)
[07:52] <joem> Jaramin, it needs to be an executable to show up
[07:53] <phlaegel> Jaramin: hm. the docs for this are so out of date. the folder is probably somewhere else now...
[07:53] <joem> script should just be something like gksudo rm $@
[07:53] <joem> Jaramin, .gnome2/nautilus-scripts
[07:53] <phlaegel> try ~/.gnome/nautilus-scripts
[07:53] <phlaegel> heh
[07:53] <whiprush> clee: your proprietary linux will fall to the mighty open solaris empire.
[07:54] <calc> hahaha
[07:54] <clee> whiprush: heh.
[07:54] <calc> solaris is about dead what with jonathan's lovely IP patent stuff ;)
[07:54] <whiprush> woo
[07:54] <aj> calc: (you'd rather they get crushed after you get a job there?)
[07:54] <calc> aj: no that if they don't hire me they can get crushed ;)
[07:55] <justdave> what package do I need to install to get autoconf.h?
[07:56] <joem> autoconf?
[07:56] <justdave> got that already, and it's not there
[07:56] <justdave> ok, packages.debian.org says it's part of the kernel source
[07:57] <justdave> which I also have already
[07:57] <Jaramin> joem: yep, that's the right path
[07:57] <calc> autoconf.h should be in linux-kernel-headers under /usr/include/linux/autoconf.h
[07:57] <calc> unless it is a different one
[07:57] <joem> yep
[07:57] <joem> that is where its at
[07:58] <whiprush> woo, going to buy more cancer sticks. bbl. clee/calc, pleasure meeting you gentlemen, fan of your work, as always.
[07:58] <LeeColleton> whiprush: no cancer, don't
[07:58] <clee> whiprush: later on
[07:58] <whiprush> jdub: I think you're ok also. :p
[07:58] <clee> whiprush: don't smoke'em all at once
[07:59] <calc> whiprush: you run ars technica linux section?
[07:59] <crimsun> that's him.
[07:59] <calc> thats cool :)
[07:59] <phlaegel> jdub: that will only encourage him.
[08:00] <whiprush> dude you gotta EARN that play.
[08:00] <joem> hmm, how does gksudo work
[08:00] <joem>  gksudo rm test.txt seems like it should do the job
[08:01] <phlaegel> it's probably meant for gui apps
[08:02] <joem> I don't see why it can't do that
[08:02] <jdub> joem: gksudo swallows the tty
[08:02] <joem> hmm
[08:02] <jdub> so you can't do those things
[08:02] <joem> what would be the best way to go about asking for password in a nautilus script then
[08:03] <joem> zenity and pass the output to sudo?
[08:04] <atu13439> hey guys is it just me or is there something wrong with Disc Utility and warty-powerpc.iso in Mac OS X
[08:05] <clee> so is there a vncviewer that doesn't *suck* like the default one?
[08:05] <clee> vino-server reports that it can do protocol version 3.7
[08:06] <clee> vncviewer here only seems to do 3.3
[08:06] <clee> and it's fucking *laggy* on 100MBit which is unacceptable
[08:07] <ranman> joem: jdub: run "gksu touch me" You should find a file in your home directory with root permissions..
[08:08] <atu13439> any ubuntu on powerpc users here that can help...
[08:08] <ranman> gksu is a wrapper for sudo..
[08:08] <joem> sudo or su?
[08:08] <joem> it asks for root password
[08:08] <dewey> sudo asks for your password.
[08:08] <Jaramin> joem: googling stuff for scripts, found interesting stuff, script has to handle selction of multiple files with spaces in the file names...
[08:10] <joem> yea gksu requires root access
[08:13] <ranman> ic..
[08:13] <ranman> I think that this rootless environment needs more thought..
[08:13] <justdave> atu13439: Disk Utility is broken
[08:14] <justdave> atu13439: the iso works fine in Toast
[08:14] <ranman> Good idea to keep the noobs for messing up their computers.. (maybe).. But it seems less friendly..
[08:15] <joem> how so?
[08:15] <linux_mafia> where can i get tomboy packages? i'm sure someone mentioned it earlier
[08:15] <phlaegel> it's in tseng's mono repo
[08:16] <linux_mafia> phlaegel, thought so, cheers
[08:17] <ranman> I am using a mutated debian unstable -> ubuntu and not experiencing the problems that others are having, but how are the people using synaptic?
[08:17] <atu13439> justdave: thanks for the reply...i dont have toast...can i use hdiutil from command line
[08:18] <ranman> Mine gets launched by gksu, and seems that others cannot use gksu due to rootless behavior..
[08:18] <justdave> hdiutil crashes, too.  (Disk Utility is just a GUI wrapper on hdiutil anyway)
[08:18] <atu13439> you're right...any other way i can work around this
[08:18] <justdave> I'm told cdrecord from fink works
[08:19] <justdave> I haven't managed to make it work personally (it seems to require a SCSI CD burner, and mine's IDE)
[08:19] <atu13439> yeah i've got an ide burner as well...
[08:19] <atu13439> hmmm maybe i can use xcdroast
[08:20] <joem> scsi emulation
[08:21] <bestadvocate> hello everyone
[08:23] <LeeColleton> tseng: I can run tomboy once then I have to delete ~/.tomboy before I can run it again.  Have you encountered this problem?  I'm using the version packaged in your repository.
[08:24] <joem> hes asleep
[08:24] <whiprush> phlaegel: still awake?
[08:25] <phlaegel> yep
[08:25] <whiprush> you happen to be running the totem packages seb posted to the list earlier?
[08:25] <phlaegel> haven't tried them yet
[08:25] <phlaegel> I use mplayer most of the time
[08:25] <whiprush> fell like helping me confirm a bug?
[08:26] <phlaegel> sure
[08:26] <linux_mafia> LeeColleton, i'm just dl'ing tomboy now, i'll tell you if i have the same problem, then you can know if it's a problem specific to you
[08:26] <whiprush> deb http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~seb128/gstreamer/ ./
[08:26] <whiprush> then install totem-gstreamer.
[08:26] <phlaegel> LeeColleton: I never had that problem when I ran tseng's tomboy package
[08:26] <phlaegel> whiprush: ew, gstreamer ;-)
[08:26] <AndyFitz> oh ym ,  the TripleJ beat the drum winners went all out http://www.struthbeatthedrum.8m.net/photo.html  - amazing    . still ,  I liked the time someone projected the logo onto the sydney 200 opening ceremony roof
[08:27] <whiprush> fullscreen a video, and tell me if you see the minimized controls like normal fullscreen mode.
[08:27] <whiprush> I get nothing.
[08:27] <AndyFitz> TripleJ is a national radio station here in AU
[08:27] <linux_mafia> AndyFitz, do they use ubuntu?
[08:27] <AndyFitz> yeah 3 times a day
[08:27] <linux_mafia> AndyFitz, wtf
[08:28] <AndyFitz> lol just joking linux_mafia.  i doubt the ABC use ubuntu. 
[08:28] <LeeColleton> phlaegel: I'm thinking it's somehow vaugely related to my installation and removal of tomboy from source, followed by this buggy packaged installation
[08:29] <joem> the package isn't buggy
[08:29] <linux_mafia> i reckon, tseng is the head of voltron
[08:30] <phlaegel> whiprush: that totem doesnt' seem to want to play anything
[08:30] <whiprush> you need to find an mpeg or something
[08:31] <whiprush> not an avi or wmv or mov
[08:31] <GOwin> hello. i'm new into linux and ubuntu. i've just succesfully installed ubuntu on a desktop and am now trying to looking for the egroupware via the synaptic package manager. i can't seem to find it. 
[08:31] <phlaegel> ah, of course... gstreamer
[08:31] <whiprush> heh
[08:31] <phlaegel> there's a reason totem-xine was one of the first things I installed on ubuntu
[08:31] <AndyFitz> GOwin: you mean opengroupware ?
[08:32] <whiprush> phlaegel: right, except the gstreamer stuff is being worked on now.
[08:32] <GOwin> nope. i mean, egroupware. from www.egroupware.org
[08:32] <GOwin> it's a fork of phpgroupware
[08:32] <whiprush> phlaegel: that means you get to help fix it. :p
[08:32] <phlaegel> yay
[08:33] <whiprush> GOwin: it doesn't appear to be part of ubuntu at the moment.
[08:33] <liran> what the command to reconfig stuff ?
[08:33] <phlaegel> haven't found a file it'll play yet
[08:33] <liran> dpkg something
[08:33] <whiprush> dpkg-reconfigure <package>
[08:34] <ranman> GOwin: egroupware is not there... It is in Deb unstable though, if you are adventurous..
[08:34] <GOwin> i was told before that i can try to get it from debian packages. im not sure how to do it.
[08:34] <liran> any one?
[08:34] <whiprush> phlaegel: you get a black screen right?
[08:34] <GOwin> ranman. i can afford to be adventoruos right now.
[08:34] <phlaegel> yeah
[08:34] <GOwin> how do i got about it? :)
[08:34] <liran> what the command to reconfig stuff ?
[08:34] <whiprush> liran: dpkg-reconfigure <package>
[08:34] <phlaegel> just audio, or some file freeze the player
[08:35] <whiprush> fullscreen it anyway.
[08:35] <phlaegel> fullscreen or normal size
[08:35] <phlaegel> and no fullscreen controls
[08:35] <whiprush> do you see the "Exit fullscreen" button or the minicontrols?
[08:35] <liran> thanks
[08:39] <Treenaks> oh great... I updated my ubuntu this morning, and now I get the login sound _twice_.. once before login, once after
[08:40] <calc> heh
[08:40] <calc> maybe it wants to make certain you realize you logged in
[08:40] <punkass> \join #css
[08:40] <punkass> doh
[08:41] <Treenaks> calc: uh, the login sounds plays before I've even typed my login name :)
[08:41] <calc> oh
[08:41] <Treenaks> calc: want to wade through X internals btw?
[08:41] <Treenaks> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1842                                 
[08:42] <punkass> Treenaks...i dont even get a login sound :(
[08:42] <LeeColleton> aha!  I have to have a notification area open for the TinTin head.  That's why tomboy was freaking out.
[08:42] <joem> LeeColleton, file a bug on it
[08:43] <joem> it should give you some sort of warning
[08:43] <calc> Treenaks: don't know about x internals, sorry
[08:44] <calc> Treenaks: that bug report appears to be fairly detailed though
[08:44] <GOwin> uh oh. ubuntu just crashed. i'm going to reboot now. what should i check what i get back on?
[08:45] <LeeColleton> joem: where?
[08:45] <Treenaks> GOwin: crashed?
[08:47] <Treenaks> GOwin: what did you do to make it crash? and what part crashed?
[08:54] <joem> dunno, if there is a bugzilla component, mailing list, author addredd..
[08:54] <joem> address*
[08:54] <joem> http://beatniksoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/tomboy-list_beatniksoftware.com
[08:54] <GOwin> treenaks. the screensaver just activated and i left it like that and then it crashed
[08:55] <Treenaks> GOwin: so it might be 3d-related.. do you have an nvidia or ati card?
[08:55] <joem> LeeColleton, there is also a component on gnome bugzilla
[08:56] <ranman> GOwin: Was it a GL screensaver?
[08:56] <liran> how do i open bz2 files ?
[08:56] <GOwin> nope. it's just a run of the mill savage4 card
[08:57] <linux_mafia> liran, tar jxf <file> or bzip2 -d <file>
[08:57] <Treenaks> GOwin: maybe it was just slow?
[08:57] <linux_mafia> iirc
[08:57] <linux_mafia> heh
[08:59] <liran> how do i install .bin files?
[08:59] <liran> or open them
[08:59] <Treenaks> liran: where did you get it?
[08:59] <liran> from java,its java for linux
[08:59] <Treenaks> liran: don't use the bin file
[09:00] <liran> why  not?
[09:00] <liran> and what shell i use then?
[09:00] <Treenaks> liran: you should use packages
[09:00] <liran> sudo apt-get install java
[09:00] <liran> ?
[09:00] <GOwin> treenaks. the whole system crashed. i had to reboot
[09:00] <Treenaks> liran: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-16.3469703387/view?searchterm=java
[09:01] <Treenaks> GOwin: that's really weird.
[09:01] <Treenaks> GOwin: are you sure it crashed (and not just X -- it might've been possible to access it over the network)
[09:02] <ranman> GOwin: what is the vendor id for the card? YOu can get the info from lspci..
[09:05] <liran> Treenaks: i can`t get it worked
[09:05] <Treenaks> liran: did you read the FAQ page
[09:05] <liran> yes
[09:08] <jacob> Is there a package list availiable for what comes on the 4.10 CD ?
[09:09] <Treenaks> liran: it has instructions and a link
[09:10] <liran> :(
[09:15] <GOwin> ranman told me that it could've been due to a GL screensaver. i'm using savage4 card.
[09:15] <GOwin> i've changed the screensaver now.
[09:15] <monkey-> hey people, for some reason cdrecord does not work on ubuntu with my cdwriter, I try "cdrecord -scanbus" as root and I get this "cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open '/dev/pg*'. Cannot open SCSI driver." Any clues? 
[09:16] <calc> use the atapi mode, forgot how
[09:16] <monkey-> ok, i will look it up
[09:16] <monkey-> cheers!
[09:20] <Treenaks> monkey-: it'll work with your CD writer.. nautilus uses cdrecord too
[09:20] <ranman> is that the ide-scsi driver?
[09:21] <Treenaks> ranman: no, it's a special dev= command line option for cdrecord
[09:21] <calc> ranman: ide-scsi is no longer used
[09:22] <ranman> ic.. I did not know, I switched to scsi some time ago..
[09:22] <monkey-> I am not sure, I have used my cdwriter about 2 times in the last year, but that was under a 2.4 kernel
[09:24] <calc> its only on 2.6 though iirc
[09:24] <crimsun> dev=/dev/hdXX if you use a static /dev on 2.6
[09:24] <monkey-> ok, cdrecord dev=/dev/cdrom -scanbus detects on the DVD part of my cdwriter
[09:25] <liran> Treenaks there is a package for gtk.2.4.* ?
[09:25] <liran> I really needs it
[09:25] <crimsun> ubuntu already uses gtk 2.4
[09:25] <Treenaks> liran: yes, that's already installed.. part of gnome
[09:26] <liran> how do i check if it is?
[09:26] <liran> i mean the verrsion i got
[09:26] <crimsun> dpkg -l libgtk2\*|grep ^ii
[09:26] <liran>  dpkg -l libgtk2\*|grep ^ii
[09:26] <liran> ii  libgtk2.0-0    2.4.10-1ubuntu The GTK+ graphical user interface library
[09:26] <liran> ii  libgtk2.0-bin  2.4.10-1ubuntu The programs for the GTK+ graphical user int
[09:26] <liran> ii  libgtk2.0-comm 2.4.10-1ubuntu Common files for the GTK+ graphical user in
[09:28] <crimsun> see? 2.4.10
[09:38] <calc> grr the gtk gettingstarted guide is out of date
[09:39] <calc> anyone happen to know what gtk_window_show changed to?
[09:40] <bborkk> I just installed Warty and would like to upgrade the kernel from 2.6.8.1-3 to 2.6.8.1-12.  I've downloaded the source, compiled the new kernel and installed it all without a problem.  However, booting into the new kernel results in: "Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)".  Google seems to think I didn't compile the correct modules into the kernel, but I can't figure out which ones I would nee
[09:40] <bborkk> d.  Any ideas?
[09:40] <phlaegel> you shouldn't need to compile a kernel
[09:40] <crimsun> bborkk: mkinitrd? :)
[09:40] <bborkk> phlaegel: that would be nice.
[09:41] <phlaegel> just install the linux-i386 (or linux-k7 or linux-amd64, as appropriate) and it will keep you up to date
[09:41] <crimsun> -13 is the most current iirc
[09:41] <bborkk> phlaegel: you mean the package?  sudo apt-get install linux-i386?
[09:41] <phlaegel> right
[09:41] <crimsun> yep
[09:41] <calc> ah gtk_widget_show_all
[09:42] <calc> i guess that is the equivalent anyway
[09:42] <bborkk> phlaegel: well, at least now i know how to compile and install a kernel, even if incorrectly.  :)
[09:42] <phlaegel> doesn't hurt to know :-)
[09:43] <bborkk> phlaegel: the linux-i386 package wasn't found.
[09:44] <plangent> Is there an issue with the ppc .iso in OSX.3?
[09:44] <crimsun> should work fine if you burn w/ toast
[09:44] <crimsun> from reports
[09:44] <phlaegel> bborkk: maybe linux-386
[09:45] <phlaegel> linux-686 if it's a pentium4
[09:45] <bborkk> phlaegel: how about a pentium M (newest intel laptop chipset)?
[09:45] <joem> yea
[09:46] <joem> anything above a pentium2 afaik
[09:46] <crimsun> linux-686 should work
[09:46] <bborkk> thanks all.  i'll see how it goes.
[09:48] <bborkk> crimsun, phlaegel: I assume I have to restart to see the change in kernel?
[09:48] <crimsun> bborkk: yes
[09:48] <phlaegel> yep
[09:48] <bborkk> back in a bit, then.  thanks again.  i'll let you know how it goes.
[09:56] <bborkk> okay, that worked... i'm now running 2.6.8.1-3-686 instead of 2.6.8.1-2-386. 
[09:56] <crimsun> :)
[09:56] <bborkk> thanks for the help!
[09:57] <bborkk> what's the difference between the -386 and -686 kernels? 
[09:57] <bborkk> the reason i wanted to update was so i could get my laptop to sleep properly
[09:58] <bborkk> but, it doesn't seem to have worked.
[09:58] <jdub> bborkk: 686 is built for newer cpus - same source, different binary
[09:58] <jdub> (mostly the same source)
[09:58] <bborkk> jdub: good to know... so it's just optimization issues?
[09:58] <jdub> essentially
[09:59] <bborkk> jdub: what about the revision numbers?  does -3-686 correspond to -3-386?
[09:59] <Lathiat> bingles
[09:59] <jdub> bborkk: yes
[10:00] <jdub> bborkk: the 3 indicates abi change version
[10:00] <Lathiat> tseng: cool, see http://lathiat.bur.st/ i've got my patch to monodevelop, a binary and dbus cvs built with c# bindings (beagle needs dbus cvs so i did that instead of the release)
[10:00] <Lathiat> tseng: actually, maybe the beagle release wont need a cvs dbus version :)
[10:00] <Lathiat> the cvs version does anyway
[10:00] <bborkk> jdub: hmm, so if the bug i'm dealing with was fixed in 2.6.8.1-10, then I should be using the -386 version?
[10:02] <phlaegel> jdub: do you know if there's been any discussion about improving performance in the network window in nautilus? ie. If a connection can be shown immediately, do it, don't stall the whole window to wait for slower ones. I find the delay opening that window really annoying.
[10:02] <phlaegel> bborkk: 686 is fine, all the versions are at -13
[10:03] <bborkk> phlaegel: uname -a returns Linux mono-pole 2.6.8.1-3-686 #1 Thu Oct 7 14:27:15 BST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[10:04] <phlaegel> bborkk: search in synaptic (or apt-cache) for linux-image. see what versions show up
[10:04] <bborkk> phlaegel: apt-cache show linux-image?
[10:04] <Alby> Hi, can i use a bootdisk to start ubuntu installation cause my laptop doesn't support boot from CD?
[10:05] <jdub> bborkk: that'd be the latest version
[10:05] <jdub> bborkk: most likely
[10:05] <phlaegel> apt-cache search linux-image
[10:05] <jdub> bborkk: if 'dpkg -l linux-image-2.6.8.1-3-686'
[10:06] <jdub> bborkk: shows that you have version 2.6.8.1-13, you have the latest version
[10:06] <bborkk> jdub: huh, i guess i have the latest version then.  very confusing.  :)
[10:07] <phlaegel> bborkk: I think it's a little clearer if you look in synaptic
[10:09] <bborkk> phlaegel: yep, it is clearer.  i've never used synaptic before.
[10:12] <bborkk> thanks again... sleep beckons.  back on the horse tomorrow.
[10:14] <giuSerpe> hi
[10:22] <GOwin> hi. i'm trying to get the egroupware package for debian from here. http://ftp.hk.debian.org/debian/pool/main/e/egroupware/
[10:23] <GOwin> how do i use synaptic to do this? im new into linux and ubuntu
[10:25] <Lathiat> Well youd need to add the debian source for that mirror
[10:25] <Lathiat> however that, generally, is a bad idea
[10:25] <Lathiat> it might work, but it might break things
[10:26] <GOwin> my objective for setting up the ubuntu in my computer is to get egroupware installed on it
[10:27] <Treenaks> hm.. my laptop has associated with my AP, it asks for an IP every hour, but ping gives 'host unreachable' on both ipv4 and ipv6
[10:27] <Treenaks> and I'm not near it to check it
[10:28] <Lathiat> Treenaks: If you had access to the dhcp server you could check the leases?
[10:28] <Lathiat> GOwin: what is egroupware exactly?
[10:28] <Treenaks> Lathiat: that's what I meant by "it asks for an IP".. it gets a lease
[10:29] <Lathiat> Treenaks: No its not, because I meant, look at the DHCP server leases because it probably managed to expire its lease and get a different address than the one your trying to ping?
[10:29] <GOwin> lathiat, it's a colloboration application
[10:29] <Lathiat> that said if the ipv6 doesnt ping, since the autoconfed addresses are static you probably broke it somehow :)
[10:29] <Treenaks> Lathiat: it gets an IP. I know my DHCP logs :)
[10:29] <Treenaks> Lathiat:
[10:29] <Lathiat> Treenaks: oh i get it now :)
[10:29] <Lathiat> sorry
[10:29] <Treenaks> Oct  8 10:23:43 messy dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.100.251 from 00:04:e2:a5:d9:88 via eth1
[10:30] <Lathiat> depends hwo you read what you first wrote :)
[10:30] <Treenaks> Oct  8 10:23:43 messy dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.100.251 to 00:04:e2:a5:d9:88 via eth1
[10:30] <Lathiat> firewall? :)
[10:30] <Lathiat> EBCAK?
[10:30] <Treenaks> Lathiat: I didn't change anything.. I just rebooted the laptop remotely.. then it worked for a while, until I logged out
[10:31] <Lathiat> ahh thats just murphys law then
[10:31] <Treenaks> Lathiat: 8)
[10:31] <Lathiat> maybe you "logged out" with reboot? :)
[10:31] <Treenaks> Lathiat: even then, it should work by now.. it's been an hour
[10:31] <Treenaks> Lathiat: more even
[10:32] <pere> What packages do I have to install to be able to play mpg-movies
[10:36] <pere> isnt that possible?
[10:37] <Treenaks> it is possible
[10:37] <phin> divx?
[10:37] <Treenaks> look for marillat in the FAQ
[10:37] <phin> werd
[10:37] <Treenaks> phin: divx as well
[10:38] <joolz> i have a newbie problem with /etc/X11/XF86Config-4. I have set the resolution to 1280x1024, but X doesn't seem to pick it up
[10:39] <joolz> do I need to set this somewhere else too?
[10:39] <phin> ya i know
[10:39] <phin> i was gonna give him the deb for marillat
[10:39] <phin> but you beat me to it
[10:39] <phin> lol
[10:39] <Lathiat> joolz: A number of things can affect that
[10:39] <Treenaks> phin: I type faster than my shadow 8)
[10:40] <Lathiat> joolz: Do you know for certain your videocard/monitor supports that resolution?
[10:40] <joolz> Lathiat: yes, i come from fc2 on the same machine, and it worked there
[10:40] <joolz> just switched yesterday :)
[10:40] <Lathiat> right
[10:40] <liran> my linux fucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:40] <Lathiat> do you have your old config?
[10:41] <Lathiat> liran: Bad way to get help, good way is to state your problem as specifically as possible and with some politeness :)
[10:41] <joolz> that's an xorg one... ubuntu has xfree86
[10:41] <Lathiat> joolz: That wont matter
[10:41] <joolz> can I just copy it over?
[10:41] <Lathiat> joolz: Umm are you an experiencedish user or new to linux?
[10:41] <joolz> medium
[10:41] <Lathiat> i think the formats are different
[10:41] <Treenaks> Lathiat: it might be that the xorg driver is newer
[10:41] <Lathiat> joolz: thought so
[10:41] <Lathiat> Treenaks: possible
[10:41] <fabbione> joolz: which video card?
[10:41] <Lathiat> joolz: what video card do you have?
[10:41] <Lathiat> beat ya fabbione :P
[10:41] <fabbione> nope
[10:42] <joolz> sec, i'll have a look
 Treenaks: possible
 joolz: which video card?
 joolz: what video card do you have?
[10:42] <fabbione> that's what appeared on my screen ;)
[10:42] <Lathiat> bah, lag :P
[10:42] <fabbione>  [Lag  0]  [O/0 N/187 I/0 V/0 F/0]                                    [U:A:S:b:h] 
[10:42] <fabbione> tsk :P
[10:42] <Lathiat> fabbione: yeh but like yours came out like justa fter mine
[10:42] <joolz> Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Device (says the config file)
[10:42] <Lathiat> irc + connection lag would probablyu be about ~4-500ms
[10:42] <fabbione> joolz: lspci
[10:43] <joolz> fabbione: ?
[10:43] <fabbione> joolz: show me the output of lspci
[10:43] <liran> i change the splash screen and it gave me error about session logout :(
[10:43] <liran> im in fialsafe now
[10:43] <liran> :(
[10:43] <liran> please help me to restore my old conf's
[10:43] <liran> please mates
[10:43] <liran> any one ???
[10:43] <joolz> fabbione: 0000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corp. 82865G Integrated Graphics Device (rev 02)
[10:43] <fabbione> liran: start explaining one thing at a time
[10:44] <Lathiat> liran: So if you try to logn normally, what happens?
[10:44] <fabbione> liran: what was before, what you did and what do you expect
[10:44] <fabbione> joolz: ok.. can you put your XF86Config-4 somewhere i can look at it?
[10:45] <Lathiat> fabbione: probbaly a horiz/vert sync issue?
[10:45] <calc> may be an issue of enough ram allocated or something
[10:45] <Lathiat> or ram
[10:45] <calc> 865G is a shared mem video
[10:45] <Lathiat> agpgart not loaded perhaps?
[10:45] <calc> Lathiat: that could probably do it
[10:45] <Lathiat> altho i dont think they work at all without that, ic ant remember
[10:45] <punkass> fabbione: any word on 64bit glx package?
[10:46] <fabbione> Lathiat: yes. that's why i want to check
[10:46] <calc> Lathiat: yea probably not
[10:46] <fabbione> punkass: hoary
[10:46] <Lathiat> fabbione: cool
[10:46] <fabbione> and needs to be done by someone with an amd64
[10:46] <Treenaks> fabbione: put one on your amazon wish list 8)
[10:47] <calc> but don't know much about x
[10:47] <fabbione> punkass: the HowTo on the mailinglist/wiki is the best at the moment, specially considering the need of that script to fix the lib stuff
[10:47] <punkass> fabbione: cool thanks
[10:47] <pere> Treenaks: Thanks for pointing me to the FAQ. However I have another question that probably is too basic for including into the FAQ: How do I add debian-marillat repository to my Ubuntu sources.list. Can I do that in Synaptic?
[10:47] <fabbione> pere: yes you can 
[10:47] <Treenaks> pere: I think so, you can also do "sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list" in a shell
[10:47] <joolz> fabbione: i'll try matching xfree conf with the old xorg. If that doesn't work, i'll be back here. Thanks so far!
[10:47] <fabbione> pere: and it should be included in the faq
[10:48] <fabbione> joolz: i might know where the problem is.
[10:48] <fabbione> joolz: do you want to show me the config?
[10:48] <joolz> sure, where do i put it?
[10:48] <fabbione> joolz: dunno.. somewhere on the web? email?
[10:48] <fabbione> joolz: whatever you prefer..
[10:48] <fabbione> joolz: mail fabbione@canonical.com
[10:48] <joolz> fabbione: ok, just a sec
[10:49] <pere> fabbions: I find the menu entry, but have now idea what the url should be... 
[10:49] <ik5pvx> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main
[10:50] <ik5pvx> I'm not sure "unstable" is right for use with warty
[10:50] <ik5pvx> works for me (TM)
[10:50] <Lathiat> ive read conflicting bits
[10:50] <fabbione> ik5pvx: yeah that is ok
[10:50] <Lathiat> somewhere i read said ubuntu was merged of sarge
[10:50] <Lathiat> somewhere else said sid
[10:50] <fabbione> Lathiat: ubuntu is a snapshot of Sid
[10:51] <ik5pvx> fineprint says it will format your hard disc, fry your graphic card, burn the laser of your cdrom and cause male sterility
[10:51] <Lathiat> rightio
[10:51] <Lathiat> i read something about using debian packages that said it was frozen at the same time as sarge and so they might work but no guarantees *shrug* i know the truth now :)
[10:51] <joolz> whoa! mozilla-firefox segfaults on me
[10:51] <joolz> when trying to send an email to fabbione with squirrelmail
[10:51] <Treenaks> joolz: did you install java?
[10:52] <joolz> Treenaks: no idea, I did a default install. Sec, i'll have a look
[10:52] <Treenaks> joolz: default install = no java
[10:52] <joolz> Treenaks: ok, no java then
[10:52] <fabbione> does squirrel use javascript?
[10:52] <ik5pvx> anyone expert on "suspend to ..." features ?
[10:52] <joolz> yes, and java is enabled in prefs
[10:52] <Lathiat> it probably does
[10:52] <joolz> i'll disable it
[10:53] <fabbione> joolz: it's a know bug. thom is working on it
[10:53] <fabbione> ik5pvx: thom is your bitch ;)
[10:53] <fabbione> or mjg59 ?
[10:53] <fabbione> i can never remember :)
[10:53] <Lathiat> i love swsusp2
[10:53] <joolz> fabbione: any workaround available?
[10:53] <ik5pvx> well, I'll try to summarize the 2 problems I have
[10:53] <Lathiat> couldnt live without it
[10:53] <fabbione> joolz: not yet. they are working on it
[10:53] <joolz> fabbione: ok, thanks
[10:53] <Lathiat> knowing a swsusp2 hacker IRL helps to get it going nicely :)
[10:54] <ik5pvx> first is that acpid intercepts power button, so pressing powerbutton to awake the laptop does awake and immediatly shutdown it
[10:54] <ik5pvx> easily fixed by adding an exit 0 in /etc/acpid/pwrbtn.sh or something like that
[10:54] <ik5pvx> second problem is that I can't get suspend to disk to work. there is no /sys/power/disk file
[10:55] <joolz> fabbione: i have a workaround. Seems that when in firefox java is enabled, and there is no java, this happens. I disabled java in firefox and now it doesnt segfault
[10:55] <ik5pvx> I suspect my laptop is to old to suspend to disk
[10:55] <fabbione> joolz: ok...
[10:55] <ik5pvx> Lathiat, what's "IRL" ?
[10:56] <stub> ipw2200 is curerntly spinning on my box - what should I run to submit a bug report? sudo strace -p 666 is telling me I'm not permitted.
[10:57] <joolz> fabbione: mail is underway
[10:57] <joolz> on the way
[10:57] <fabbione> joolz: ehehe ok
[10:57] <Treenaks> fabbione: I finally did the new core backtrace this morning...
[10:57] <spiv> stub: Yeah, you can't strace kernel threads :(
[10:58] <joolz> great to see there's such an active ubuntu society
[10:58] <Treenaks> joolz: hey, jij ook al? :)
[10:58] <joolz> Treenaks: yep, ik ookm al :)
[10:58] <joolz> Treenaks: nou ja, nederlands... Maastricht :)
[10:58] <fabbione> Treenaks: i saw it.. just replied to it ;)
[10:58] <joolz> and now back to english :)
[10:58] <Treenaks> joolz: Reservebelg ;)
[10:58] <joolz> Treenaks: lol
[10:59] <fabbione> joolz: why are you forcing the modeline?
[10:59] <Lathiat> ik5pvx: in real life
[11:00] <joolz> fabbione: just a try to see if that helped
[11:00] <fabbione> joolz: also.. your HorizSync is wrong
[11:00] <ik5pvx> Lathiat, do you have it working on ubuntu ?
[11:00] <joolz> fabbione: what should it be?
[11:01] <Lathiat> ik5pvx: it will do as soon as i recompile my kernel
[11:01] <Lathiat> ik5pvx: its not so much a ubuntu issue as it is a kernel issue
[11:01] <Lathiat> i ahd it going on debian fine so i assume itl work on ubuntu fine
[11:01] <fabbione> joolz: it should be 30-65
[11:01] <Lathiat> fabbione: ooc, (if its quickly explainable) what does horizsync mean
[11:02] <joolz> fabbione: ok, i'll adjust it. But will this solve the resolution issue?
[11:02] <fabbione> joolz: it should..
[11:02] <fabbione> Lathiat: ???
[11:02] <ik5pvx> Lathiat, ok, let us know. Hopefully it is easily done without too many changes, I'd really like the laptop to be as much "stock ubuntu" as possible 
[11:02] <joolz> fabbione: ok, thanks a lot! Be right back
[11:02] <fabbione> joolz: and remove the modeline!
[11:03] <Lathiat> fabbione: like i was just curious if you knew, technically, what horizontal sync was...
[11:03] <fabbione> or comment it
[11:03] <fabbione> Lathiat: eh i will try in a few words
[11:03] <Lathiat> ik5pvx: its jus a kernel patch and ascript, ill see if i can patch the stock ubuntu kernel with it and make a package of the script and ill put it up on http://lathiat.bur.st/
[11:03] <fabbione> Lathiat: basically there is like a "pen" drawing on the monitor
[11:04] <fabbione> Lathiat: the pen needs to move from top left corner to bottom right corner
[11:04] <fabbione> Lathiat: imagine the pen as the size of one pixel
[11:04] <fabbione> Lathiat: the pen needs to move fast 
[11:04] <fabbione> the HorizSync specify how fast the pen needs to move from left to right
[11:04] <Lathiat> heh 1280 * 1024 * 60 :P
[11:04] <Lathiat> fabbione: ah right
[11:05] <Lathiat> so thsi restricts the resolution cus if its too high and the horizsync is too low then it cant draw fast enough to hit the refresh rate?
[11:05] <Treenaks> Lathiat: 60? I'd try 75 at least (unless you like headaches..)
[11:05] <fabbione> the most common and known bit is the VertRefresh
[11:05] <Lathiat> Treenaks: well yeh 75-80+ these days
[11:05] <fabbione> since it's the "commercial" one
[11:05] <fabbione> Lathiat: or too low.. yes
[11:05] <ik5pvx> there's a nice explanation of all the screen timings somewhere in the X docs, let me see if I can find it again
[11:06] <joem> damn, I still have 60
[11:06] <fabbione> Lathiat: this is not a real "technical" explanation
[11:06] <fabbione> but you get the idea
[11:06] <Lathiat> fabbione: yeh its ok i get the general idea which is all i wanted :)
[11:06] <fabbione> bbl
[11:09] <Lathiat> cheers
[11:09] <joolz> fabbione: it's solved! Thanks!!
[11:10] <Lathiat> for hes a jolly good fellow..
[11:10] <Lathiat> bored :)
[11:10] <Alby> can i start installation from a debian system cause my laptop does not support cd rom boot
[11:12] <Lathiat> Alby: *thinks*
[11:13] <Lathiat> Alby: you could do a network install, do you have other computer as your network?
[11:13] <Lathiat> running an install from debian etc would work just be a bit messier and more hacky
[11:13] <Alby> Nope
[11:13] <Alby> tried from flopyy but did not succedd
[11:14] <Alby> My laptop only offers hdd and fdd
[11:14] <pere> Thanks for the help with installing mplayer, everyone. However Im getting an error trying to play mpeg-movies: "alsa-control: mixer attach dev/mixer error: No such file or directory". Any ideas
[11:15] <jordi> pere: try to see if your mplayer is using alsa directly.
[11:16] <Lathiat> Alby: hrm problem with floppy is you need to cd to continue the install
[11:16] <Lathiat> becuase it has to get the rest of the packages from somewhere
[11:16] <pere> in mplayer.conf I see ao=alsa
[11:17] <Lathiat> Alby: will you be able to get direct internet access?
[11:17] <Lathiat> Alby: perhaps a floppy started network install might work
[11:17] <Alby> Nope not from this laptop :/
[11:17] <Alby> Debian boot disks won't do?
[11:17] <pere> jordi: is that OK?
[11:18] <Lathiat> well only if you want to install debian :P
[11:18] <Alby> heh
[11:18] <Lathiat> hwo where you planning on getting the packages 
[11:18] <Lathiat> off another aprtition on your hard drive?
[11:18] <Alby> I want to install base only
[11:20] <Lathiat> Yes but you need a lot of packages to do that
[11:20] <Lathiat> which are far mroe that will fit on a few floppys :)
[11:20] <Alby> I do have a cd rom on it
[11:20] <Alby> Burnt latest iso
[11:22] <Lathiat> Well then why cant you just install off that....
[11:22] <Lathiat> ohh
[11:22] <Lathiat> im sorry
[11:22] <Lathiat> i completely mis understood yoru problem
[11:22] <Lathiat> i thought you said you didnt have a cdrom drive
[11:22] <Alby> can't boot from it :)
[11:22] <Lathiat> not that you just cant boot from it :)
[11:22] <Alby> No no ;)
[11:22] <Lathiat> Whats the problem with the floppy boot?
[11:23] <Alby> u mean smart boot manager?
[11:23] <Alby> I didn't find any suitable floppy img
[11:23] <Lathiat> Oh, letme find one for you
[11:23] <Lathiat> im sure there is one
[11:23] <Alby> \o/
[11:23] <Alby> googled ti though
[11:24] <Lathiat> the other solution is that thing
[11:24] <Lathiat> it might be called smart boot manager
[11:24] <Lathiat> that will boot a cdrom
[11:24] <Lathiat> thats worked for me in this situation before
[11:24] <Lathiat> have you tried it?
[11:26] <Alby> Yep
[11:26] <Alby> Cd-rom does noit appear on menu
[11:26] <Lathiat> hrm thats odd
[11:26] <Alby> smb.bin is present on ubuntu iso
[11:26] <Lathiat> maybe its one of those realy old cdrom drives
[11:26] <Alby> 95 =/
[11:27] <Alby> :)
[11:27] <Lathiat> that tho in a laptop i wouldn thave thought so
[11:27] <Alby> debina install worked on it
[11:27] <Lathiat> yeh
[11:27] <Lathiat> hrm
[11:28] <Alby> i mean after floppy boot
[11:28] <Lathiat> yeh
[11:28] <Lathiat> i thought they would have made a floppy image
[11:28] <Lathiat> they havent :)
[11:29] <Alby> Is there a place to make a plea!!! :)
[11:30] <Lathiat> heh ask on the users mailing list, someone might havea way of getting around your problem
[11:30] <Lathiat> its odd your thing doesnt work in SBM
[11:30] <Lathiat> didntthink they made "soundcard cdroms" in laptops
[11:30] <Alby> thx neway ;)
[11:33] <pere> Im getting "alsa-control: mixer attach dev/mixer error: No such file or directory" in gmplayer. Mplayer works fine from command lineAny ideas
[11:34] <Lathiat> i assume because theres no / there
[11:34] <Lathiat> bug in the package perhaps?
[11:36] <pere> Lathiat: Running gmplayer from commandline, I get these errors:
[11:36] <pere> alsa-space: xrun of at least 27.025 msecs. resetting stream
[11:36] <pere> ALSA lib control.c:654:(snd_ctl_open_noupdate) Invalid CTL /dev/mixer 72%
[11:36] <pere> alsa-control: mixer attach /dev/mixer error: No such file or directory
[11:38] <Spiritz> hi
[11:39] <Spiritz> does hubuntu supports well intel 2200 wifi chipset?
[11:39] <Lathiat> umm
[11:40] <Lathiat> Spiritz: A driver exists, its probably not in the default kernel 
[11:40] <Lathiat> unsure how stable it is its an experimental driver
[11:41] <Spiritz> ok thank you
[11:42] <Spiritz> If you owned a centrino laptop, what distrubition would you choose?
[11:42] <Lathiat> ubuntu :)
[11:42] <Lathiat> I'm getting an intel 2200 centrino laptop in a couple months
[11:43] <Spiritz> Ok then I'm gonna try it too :)
[11:44] <Spiritz> I tried mdk 10.1 which, according to mdk, was the most laptop friendly distrib, but the SpeedStep for the centrino would not work, nor the ipw2200 driver built in the kernel
[11:44] <spiv> Spiritz: Yes, it's in the default kernel.
[11:44] <Spiritz> Yeah but the ipw2200 driver in the kernel is out of date. It's only 0.7 and doesn't support wep encryption properly :-
[11:44] <spiv> Spiritz: It Just Works on my gf's laptop.
[11:45] <Spiritz> using MDK 10.1 and ipw2200 driver?
[11:45] <spiv> Using ubuntu.
[11:45] <Spiritz> oh ok awesome, I can't wait to get it then
[11:45] <spiv> I think ubuntu has the 0.8 driver, I might be wrong, though.
[11:46] <Spiritz> Ok
[11:46] <Spiritz> Is speedstep working properly?
[11:46] <spiv> Seems to be.
[11:46] <spiv> My centrino laptop runs a lot slower when I don't have AC power ;)
[11:46] <Spiritz> Sounds good
[11:47] <Spiritz> do you know if it supports ReiserFS partionning?
[11:47] <spiv> I think so, but I don't use it
[11:47] <Lathiat> Spiritz: I would suggest using ext3
[11:48] <Lathiat> Because ive lost too many partitions to resier
[11:48] <Lathiat> ext3 has *never* failed me
[11:48] <Spiritz> Have you been using latest ReiserFs version ? They say it's stable now and really faster than ext3 partitions
[11:49] <Lathiat> Not for a bit but im scarred for life with resier :)
[11:49] <ross> reiser4 is still in testing, right?
[11:49] <Spiritz> No not anymore
[11:49] <Spiritz> It's included as stable in Mdk 10.1 community and Yoper for instance
[11:49] <spiv> It's very much still in testing...
[11:49] <spiv> It's not in the mainline kernel for a reason.
[11:50] <Spiritz> I think if mdk inculuded Reisfer it means that it's close/already ready to be used
[11:50] <ross> well
[11:50] <ross> red hat included gcc "2.96"
[11:50] <spiv> Last I ead, it still hadn't been tested on an arch but i386.
[11:50] <joem> ew reiser4
[11:50] <Lathiat> Spiritz: thats an entirely false asumption
[11:51] <spiv> s/ead/read/
[11:51] <Lathiat> Spiritz: It might work for you, if it does, good
[11:51] <joem> read this(really long) thread and know why most distros won't add reiser4 support
[11:51] <joem> http://www.dragoninc.ca/mail-archives/linux-kernel/2004-08/7191.html
[11:51] <Spiritz> yes.. but anyway, I'll follow your advices and stick with ext3
[11:52] <Spiritz> I guess you know more than me
[11:52] <Lathiat> Spiritz: I mean if you want to thats fine I'm just saying in my experience ext3 is pretty safe and resier has lost me too much stuff
[11:52] <Lathiat> But you know, you could say the same about linux vs windows and stuff
[11:52] <joem> it has ugly bugs from a security and compatibility standpoint
[11:53] <Lathiat> I was just recommending especially if your a newer user, if something goes bung it'l probably be much harder for you to sort out
[11:53] <Lathiat> joem: did you read any of that lovely 1000+ message thread on resier recently?
[11:53] <Lathiat> or is that part of it? :P
[11:53] <Lathiat> hans gets defensive quickly :)
[11:53] <joem> Lathiat, I followed it when it started
[11:53] <joem> after a while I got the point..lots of it is just arguing
[11:54] <Lathiat> joem: i just looked aroudn for posts by hans resier and read aroudn them for amusementvalue
[11:54] <joem> but if you spend 10 minutes starting from the begining, you get whats going on
[11:55] <ik5pvx> I can foresee reiserfs ending the same way as devfs... a good idea done bad...
[11:55] <Lathiat> mm
[11:56] <joem> I don't know if you can call it a good idea when it goes bad from the start
[11:56] <joem> unless you use a very general form of idea
[11:56] <joem> like "lets make a cool file system"
[11:57] <ik5pvx> well at least it looked like a good idea when the whole thing started. At the time ext3 wasn't as stable as now
[11:57] <Iorek> what *I* understand from all that is absolutely nothing
[11:57] <Iorek> everybody could be right as far as I'm concerned :P
[11:57] <joem> :)
[11:57] <Spiritz> sipv : what's your/your gf laptop brand and model?
[12:00] <Lathiat> I'm looking at getting a 1024x768 14.1" Dell Inspiron 510m with DVD Burner, 1GB RAM, 60GB HDD, 2200 wireless -- anyone got any comments on dells/inspiron/510m? (just curious)
[12:01] <petemc> massive
[12:01] <Lathiat> massive?
[12:01] <petemc> yes, inspirons are big ugly laptops
[12:01] <Lathiat> the *ms seem to be fairly small
[12:01] <Lathiat> the nonms are
[12:01] <Lathiat> like the Inspiron 1150
[12:01] <Lathiat> thats chunky chunky
[12:02] <petemc> i use a latitude d400, everything works
[12:02] <petemc> but im getting a powerbook :)
[12:02] <Lathiat> yeh even the modem works i read
[12:02] <Lathiat> scary :)
[12:02] <Lathiat> though the monitor out port needs a bit of software and only does span atm
[12:02] <Lathiat> shame, i really want clone
[12:02] <Lathiat> otherwise everything else works
[12:02] <petemc> i810switch
[12:03] <Lathiat> Yeh but that only does clone doesnt it?
[12:03] <petemc> yup
[12:03] <Lathiat> really want span damnit
[12:03] <Lathiat> it seems like the perfect laptop otherwise
[12:03] <petemc> i think the d600 has a better graphics card, with 2 heads
[12:04] <Lathiat> yeh but its also probably out of my price range
[12:04] <Lathiat> above specced dell is $2200 AUD
[12:04] <Lathiat> thats already pushing it :)
[12:04] <Lathiat> ignoring the ram, im getting that aftermarket
[12:04] <cef> Lathiat: that's not a bad price for what's in it
[12:04] <Lathiat> cef: yeh
[12:04] <Lathiat> its a 1.6GHz centrino too
[12:04] <Lathiat> and hi stuart :)
[12:05] <Lathiat> it might go up to 2500 with the dvdburner
[12:05] <cef> Lathiat: and since I'm in the market for a lappy at about that price.. I'd be interested in how yours goes.. *grin*
[12:05] <Lathiat> seems to be a fre upgrade offer online atm
[12:05] <Lathiat> cef: haha it looks like a really nice laptop, read some stuff off tuxmobile and *everything* works fine :)
[12:05] <Lathiat> which is great
[12:05] <cef> Lathiat: cool.. what video chipset in that?
[12:05] <Lathiat> Intel i810 based i 
[12:05] <Lathiat> "Intel Extreme 3" i think
[12:06] <Lathiat> just checking
[12:06] <Lathiat> thing im using now
[12:06] <Lathiat> P266, 192MB RAM
[12:06] <Lathiat> HOT and CHUNKY :P
[12:06] <Lathiat> 6gb hdd
[12:06] <petemc> if i upgrade the bios on my latitude, x stops working
[12:06] <Lathiat> petemc: Are you using that video bios hack?
[12:06] <cef> ahh ok.. cool.. just don't really like the idea of the ATI binary drivers if I'm going to use 'em
[12:06] <petemc> yeah
[12:06] <petemc> 855patch
[12:07] <Lathiat> petemc: i dont think you need that iwth the upgraded bios and maybe thats why its breaking?
[12:07] <Lathiat> cef: well its not ati so :)
[12:07] <petemc> i did try turning it off
[12:07] <petemc> no go
[12:07] <Lathiat> hmm
[12:07] <Lathiat> ooc, how does the windows driver handle that resolution?
[12:07] <Lathiat> does it make a similar hack? :)
[12:07] <cef> Lathiat: yeah.. nvidia I can handle.. I generally don't do 3d, so a lack thereof occasionly is fine by me.. and the nvidia 2d drivers are pretty stable and fairly fast
[12:08] <petemc> not sure what windows does, i do dual boot but rarely bother with windows now
[12:08] <Lathiat> i cant use windows these days
[12:08] <sivang> could anybody tell how would I list files in a package by it's package name after it's installed, rather having the .deb file and dpkg -l on it?
[12:08] <petemc>  -L
[12:08] <Lathiat> im addicted to gnome :)
[12:08] <Lathiat> and linux
[12:08] <cef> I have to.. but only at work..
[12:08] <ik5pvx> dpkg -L packagename
[12:09] <Lathiat> i couldnt stand to use it as my personal machine is really what im getting at but yeh
[12:09] <cef> and even then, it's mainly for mail and the like (no, not outlook thank goodness)
[12:09] <Lathiat> come on beagle
[12:09] <Lathiat> compile damnit
[12:09] <sivang> petemc : Using apt-cache ?
[12:09] <petemc> sivang: dpkg
[12:09] <cef> Lathiat: heh
[12:09] <sivang> dpkg -L _pacakge_name no file?
[12:09] <petemc> sivang: if you want to list the files in packages that arent installed, use apt-file
[12:09] <Lathiat> next step is to make ubuntu packages, thats going to be fun
[12:10] <Lathiat> havent made any debian packages for a while
[12:10] <Lathiat> it seems to have changed a bit
[12:10] <cef> hrm, I gotta find some decent alcohol to send to some tech people in Adelaide
[12:10] <Lathiat> heh
[12:10] <Kamion> Lathiat: not really
[12:10] <Kamion> Lathiat: some people use newer techniques, but the old ones still work
[12:10] <Lathiat> well yeh the newer techniques part i guess
[12:10] <Lathiat> jsut looking at some of the stuff daniels maintains
[12:10] <Lathiat> dbus and the likes
[12:11] <Lathiat> man i keep finding the random packages i want to use
[12:11] <Lathiat> and daniels mainains too many of them :)
[12:11] <cef> Lathiat: heh it's a worry isn't it?
[12:11] <sivang> petemc : I want to list the files on an _installed_ pacakge, not a pkg file.
[12:11] <Lathiat> cef: indeed
[12:11] <petemc> sivang: so use dpkg -L
[12:11] <joolz> anybody know how I can alter mime-types without using the GUI? Which file do i edit?
[12:11] <Lathiat> joolz: why did you badly break something? :)
[12:11] <sivang> petemc : k, thanks
[12:12] <cef> hrm.. bugger it.. I'll just ring kellermiester in SA and get them to send the 'node tech people some booze.. *grin*
[12:12] <joolz> Lathiat: no :)
[12:12] <Iorek> updated everything and now Ubuntu SINGS at me at the logon screen!
[12:12] <Lathiat> my desktop (old gnome 2.6 cvs build) is buggered sftp and links randomly stop working
[12:12] <Iorek> sings better than XP does,but it's still singing
[12:12] <Lathiat> in fact debian on my laptop started doing that to
[12:12] <joolz> Lathiat: i want to create application/x-zope-edit
[12:13] <Lathiat> cef: what i really want to know is what battery life it gets
[12:13] <Iorek> who makes those tunes anyway :P
[12:13] <Lathiat> ubuntu sings at the login screen?
[12:13] <Lathiat> i didnt know that
[12:13] <cef> Lathiat: very good question
[12:13] <Lathiat> joolz: no idea
[12:13] <ik5pvx> Iorek, new stuff added today, can be disabled via computer -> system configuration -> login screen setup
[12:13] <Lathiat> cef: i read 2.5 under windows somewhere
[12:13] <Iorek> ah ;)
[12:13] <Iorek> thanks :P
[12:13] <Lathiat> im gonna get the extra cell battery
[12:13] <Lathiat> plus you can put a battery in the cdrom bay
[12:13] <Lathiat> thatd rock for conferences
[12:13] <Lathiat> modular battery is only ~150 too
[12:13] <cef> Lathiat: nice.. or plane trips
[12:14] <Lathiat> yeh
[12:14] <Lathiat> conferences = plan trip + the conference :)
[12:14] <Lathiat> itd rock for me at school to
[12:14] <Lathiat> but that wont matter after another few weeks :)
[12:14] <Lathiat> finally can get back into hacking some OS stuff
[12:14] <Lathiat> hoping to get my calendar patchinto evo 
[12:14] <Lathiat> be nice if i got thebounty for it too
[12:14] <Lathiat> definately be able to get a ncie dell laptop then :)
[12:14] <cef> Lathiat: though for a long plane trip, you want a battery pad like Keith had
[12:15] <Lathiat> cef: yeh i saw those there cool
[12:15] <Lathiat> jamesh had one for his compaq 700
[12:15] <Iorek> ik5pvx: though it's actually rather nice
[12:15] <Lathiat> wonder where you can get them tailered to your laptop voltage
[12:15] <ik5pvx> Iorek, yes, if you listen to it only once :p
[12:15] <Iorek> that's probably the truth :P
[12:16] <Lathiat> cef: dell.com.au lies, you click on the customize & buy of the 510m and the price jumps from 1899 to 2007.50 :P
[12:16] <Lathiat> hmm maybe that includes gst and the other one didnt
[12:16] <petemc> they add in support
[12:16] <cef> Lathiat: you order the voltage and plug type when you buy 'em apparently.. Keith was getting 10+ hrs out of his with the thinkpad (I THINK it was a thinkpad)
[12:16] <Lathiat> cef: thats sweet, any idea how much?
[12:16] <Lathiat> cef: so.. 14.1" @ 1024x768 or 15" @ 1400x1050
[12:16] <Lathiat> pass on the 15" @ 1024x768
[12:17] <Lathiat> thinking the 14 would be nicer, a bit more mobile
[12:17] <sivang> how do I blacklist a module?
[12:17] <Lathiat> rock if they made a 12" version :)
[12:17] <cef> Lathiat: Keith was saying something like $170.. not sure if that was US or AU tho
[12:17] <Lathiat> sivang: /etc/hotplug/blacklist
[12:17] <Lathiat> cef: mm thatd be nice if it was au
[12:17] <Lathiat> still only 240 AUD
[12:18] <Lathiat> which is pretty good
[12:18] <Lathiat> woo beagle finished compiling
[12:19] <Lathiat> cef: also $300 for a 3 year warranty if you want one
[12:19] <Lathiat> might be a good idea
[12:19] <Lathiat> only 1 year limited by default
[12:21] <cef> Lathiat: nice.. I'll definitely have a look-see
[12:21] <Lathiat> cef: 14.1" @ 1024x768, 1.60GHz-M, 256MB, 60GB Drive, DVD Burner, 53Whr Upgraded Battery, $2088.90
[12:21] <cef> ok, outta here ppl.. off to dinner
[12:21] <Treenaks> Lathiat: US$ ?
[12:21] <Lathiat> gonna get 512mb sodim after market, much cheaper off a friend
[12:21] <Lathiat> Treenaks: AU$
[12:21] <cef> pretty sweet.. tho I don't think I'd care about the dvd burner..
[12:22] <Lathiat> 1500USD
[12:22] <Lathiat> cef: well its a free ugprade atm
[12:22] <Lathiat> cef: its +250 normally i think
[12:22] <Treenaks> Lathiat: ah ok.. because I saw a nice wide-screen one with ipw2200 for EUR 2000...
[12:22] <Lathiat> Treenaks: heh
[12:22] <Lathiat> i wouldnt want widescreen tho
[12:22] <Lathiat> i want a small laptop
[12:22] <Lathiat> cef: catcha :)
[12:22] <Treenaks> Lathiat: (that's all I need, ipw2200, wide-screen and not too bulky)
[12:22] <Lathiat> heh
[12:23] <Spiritz> If you want a real laptop, one you'll fall in love with, get a IBM
[12:23] <Lathiat> i need a keybaord shortcut to bring up a run dialog
[12:23] <Lathiat> Spiritz: yeh but they start at like 2800 for a decent one
[12:23] <Lathiat> plus i think theyre ugly
[12:23] <Lathiat> the dells look sexy
[12:24] <Lathiat> but they seem like very nice machines
[12:24] <cef> Lathiat: what model dell was that again?
[12:24] <Lathiat> the X40 and such
[12:24] <Lathiat> cef: 510m
[12:24] <Lathiat> cef: its under the small busines section
[12:24] <Lathiat> not the home bit
[12:24] <Lathiat> on dell.com.au
[12:24] <Treenaks> Spiritz: do they have wide-screen (WXSGA) ones?
[12:24] <Spiritz> You can get good prices on ibm if you're a student or pretend to be a student
[12:24] <Spiritz> No, no wide screen
[12:24] <Treenaks> Spiritz: not even in the T-series?
[12:24] <Spiritz> but 15" with 1400:1050 or 1600x****
[12:24] <Lathiat> Spiritz: im a student, so how much AUD would a similar specced laptop as the above dell be?
[12:25] <Spiritz> I paid mine 1800  for a 1,7 centrio, wifi BG (intel ipw2200), 60 gb, dvdreder (no burner)
[12:25] <Spiritz> awesome screen 1400x1050
[12:25] <cef> Lathiat: inspiron or lattitude?
[12:25] <Lathiat> 1800 us or au?
[12:25] <Lathiat> cef: inspiron
[12:25] <Spiritz> 1800 euros
[12:25] <Spiritz> so us
[12:25] <Lathiat> inspiron 510m
[12:25] <Spiritz> 3 years warranty J+2
[12:26] <Lathiat> see thats $3000 AUD :)
[12:26] <Spiritz> I gotta go, my cours ust finished
[12:26] <Lathiat> 2000 AUd is pushing it for me :)
[12:26] <Spiritz> You should read ibm reviews, they're some awesome
[12:26] <Lathiat> i like the dells :)
[12:26] <Lathiat> heh
[12:26] <Lathiat> i know the ibms are good
[12:26] <Lathiat> lots of peoplehave said good things
[12:27] <Spiritz> Dells laptop looks cheap
[12:27] <Lathiat> (that i know personally, trust their reviews :)
[12:27] <Spiritz> Ibm are unbreakables
[12:27] <sivang> hmmm.. I still have dell problems.
[12:27] <mir> I am concidering to try out ubuntu linux, i have one question before i will try it
[12:27] <Lathiat> Spiritz: i like its look :)
[12:27] <Lathiat> mir: sure
[12:27] <Lathiat> sivang: dell problems/
[12:27] <sivang> mir : go ahead
[12:27] <Spiritz> bye bye
[12:27] <Lathiat> Spiritz: catcha
[12:27] <mir> how is the upgrade to new versions handled?, is it debian easy (apt-get dist-upgrade or alike) or is it FC, MDK hard?
[12:27] <sivang> yes, I have upgraded cleanly to the latest, I have it running with XFS, but Ubuntu is slow to unusable on the machine.
[12:28] <Treenaks> mir: debian-easy
[12:28] <Iorek> it's debian...
[12:28] <sivang> mir : everything you know about debian for upgrades - applies here.
[12:28] <Iorek> Treenaks actually I've been wondering, will be able to update to 4.10 the 28th with apt?
[12:28] <mir> I know it is based on debian, but is it as easy to keep up to date?.. just apt-get dist-upgrade?
[12:29] <mir> Nice.. then I will definetly try it out
[12:29] <sivang> mir : actually, as this is a bit more user orient, it should be even easier.
[12:29] <Lathiat> away
[12:30] <sivang> mir : if you are used to using debian unstable, you might recall how sometimes the system break.
[12:30] <mir> sivang: hehe.. yepp I have some nightmare experiances with unstable.. 
[12:30] <Lathiat> i guess ive been lucky
[12:30] <mir> hope ubuntu is abit more stable dough..
[12:31] <Lathiat> i run unstable on my server and desktop and laptop an dhave NEVER had a problem :)
[12:31] <Lathiat> im running ubuntu on my laptop now
[12:31] <mir> I normally run Debian testing
[12:31] <sivang> mir : which is understandable, as it's a "still in development". However I feel that extra care is taken here to make things less rocky,
[12:31] <Lathiat> havent upgraded my desktoip cus i hardly ever use it and its at home without a net connection
[12:31] <sivang> mir : and if it does happen - you'll be sure it will be fixed swiftly.
[12:31] <cef> Lathiat: hrm.. $2224 for the setup I'm after.. (15" SXGA with 53Wh batt & extra modular battey)
[12:32] <Iorek> so, upgrading to a newer version of Ubunto...possible with apt?
[12:32] <Iorek> grm
[12:32] <Mithrandir> Iorek: ubuntu; yes.
[12:32] <cef> anyway, outta here.. ppl waiting on me for dinner
[12:32] <Iorek> UbuntU of course
[12:32] <Iorek> I always want to spell Ubuntu Ooboontoo :/
[12:32] <Lathiat> cef: yeh not bad eh
[12:32] <Lathiat> cef: if you get it now fre dvd burner :)
[12:33] <Lathiat> damnit beagle backend crashes dashboard
[12:33] <Iorek> Mithrandir thanks :)
[12:33] <sivang> anyway, I have a BAD performance problem on the dell inspiron 8200. Anybody have a clue?
[12:33] <Lathiat> sivang: details....
[12:35] <mir> sivang: Sounds good, I am downloading it right now..
[12:35] <mir> sivang: How is the hardware support?.. is it more automatic than debian?
[12:36] <Mithrandir> mir: yes.
[12:36] <Mithrandir> mir: or, roughly at the same level as you get with sarge, I'd say.
[12:37] <mir> Mithrandir: But its still alot of manual job in sarge.. L
[12:37] <Kamion> depends very much on the device
[12:37] <Mithrandir> mir: oh?  It usually works out of the box for me, at least.
[12:37] <Iorek> only thing I had to take care of was nvidia
[12:37] <Iorek> otherwise, everything worked fine
[12:39] <mir> Mithrandir: Yes it detects most of my hw, but it does not configure it in a way a normal desktop user wants it.. Its ok for me, but I have some friends who like debian, execpt for this problem, they are Windowers.. So it will help them if the the the distro is more desktop friendly... and thats what ubuntu is as far as I have understood.
[12:40] <Iorek> AH, I remember something. Was trying out sound juicer, but when I checked mp3 instead of ogg, it says I don't have the encoder
[12:40] <Mithrandir> mir: the X configuration is improved a fair bit.
[12:40] <Iorek> so how do I get this? :)
[12:40] <mir> Actually I would too like an easier desktop than debian as long as it is based on debian and is compatible.. So I will install it as fast as it is downloaded to try it out
[12:40] <Mithrandir> Iorek: use ogg, it has better quality and is free. :)
[12:41] <mir> On the server there is nothing like debian :-)
[12:41] <Iorek> Mithrandir: I will, but I'd like to have the choice :)
[12:41] <sivang> mir : You might be in for a nice surprise ;)
[12:42] <mir> sivang: Hope in a positive way then :-)
[12:43] <Iorek> a negative nice surprise? ;)
[12:43] <sivang> mir : I hope it also for you, although don't hold my word against me if something goes bad ;-) , k? 
[12:43] <sivang> mir : after all it's "NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND FOR ANY SPECIFIC PURPOSE"... :-)
[12:44] <sivang> mir : as with most open source software, and somehow they tend to be much better than the _other_other_ white os meat..:-)
[12:44] <sivang> and = however
[12:46] <CortoMaltese> hi
[12:46] <CortoMaltese> i'd like to try ubuntu... should i use the PR ISO or the daily one?
[12:47] <Iorek> *scratches head* if during installation you download all the newest packages, is there a difference?
[12:47] <CortoMaltese> you're right
[12:47] <CortoMaltese> but that's 200 MB of packaged
[12:47] <CortoMaltese> but that's 200 MB of packages
[12:48] <carlos> yes, sometimes there is a difference
[12:48] <carlos> about installer fixes and things like that
[12:48] <Iorek> ah :)
[12:49] <CortoMaltese> let's hope daily shots aren't buggier than the first PR :)
[12:50] <CortoMaltese> anyway... wow, great distro
[12:50] <CortoMaltese> my homemate is using it
[12:50] <CortoMaltese> and i think i'll probably erase my 2 years gentoo to try Ubuntu
[12:50] <CortoMaltese> :
[12:51] <fabbione> Treenaks: you around?
[12:51] <Iorek> I WANTED to use gentoo...but I don't think I will now...this is much too good...
[12:53] <CortoMaltese> i'm spreading the word about Ubuntu in my university
[12:54] <CortoMaltese> we're 4 already :D
[12:54] <mjr> I recommended it in our university-local linux group
[12:54] <housetier> indeed ubuntu is a Good Thing (tm) to have
[12:54] <mjr> (newsgroup, that is)
[12:55] <Iorek> I'm still at the point where I have to explain what linux is :/
[12:56] <Iorek> got my stepdaughter to use Suse, she told that to one of her teachers at school..."Linux? ah yes, but that's GREY, isn't it? It's all GREY."
[12:56] <CortoMaltese> ahahahaha
[12:56] <Iorek> and she's using SUSE...sometimes I wonder why the colours don't blind her
[12:56] <Iorek> she seems to like it that way ;)
[12:57] <Iorek> so no, I'm not converting people to Ubuntu just yet :p
[12:58] <CortoMaltese> anyway i think it should fit to a complete newbie
[12:58] <Iorek> it doesn't have BreakOut > daughter wouldn't want it
[12:58] <Iorek> sometimes it's as simple as that ;)
[12:59] <zenwhen> I would have converted if it werent for the issues in this thread: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=96509133&m=608009566631
[01:01] <Iorek> certainly the start of that thread is interesting anough...
[01:01] <Iorek> enough
[01:08] <zenwhen> lol
[01:11] <lonewolff> afternoon all, i wonder if anyone can help me, i cant print from ubuntu
[01:12] <Treenaks> fabbione: yes
[01:26] <fabbione> Treenaks: are you in front of your computer with the silicon card?
[01:30] <Treenaks> fabbione: no, it decided to lose network connectivity too (unrelated reason)
[01:30] <fabbione> Treenaks: ack
[01:30] <Treenaks> oh wait
[01:30] <Treenaks> it does have network
[01:30] <Treenaks> (it didn't have network 3 hours ago)
[01:31] <fabbione> well i need you to reproduce the crash, so i guess you can't do it from remote
[01:31] <Treenaks> uh maybe
[01:32] <fabbione> Treenaks: do you have console framebuffer enabled?
[01:32] <Treenaks> fabbione: uh.. is it enabled by default?
[01:32] <fabbione> Treenaks: or UseFBdev "yes" or something?
[01:33] <Treenaks> I can remotely reproduce the crash using chvt btw..
[01:33] <fabbione> Treenaks: it shouldn't
[01:33] <fabbione> Treenaks: ah cool
[01:33] <Treenaks> fabbione: I don't have UseFBdev in my X config (I answered 'no' to the debconf question about framebuffers)
[01:33] <tseng> Lathiat: afaik it just needs the dbus-sharp binding to be built
[01:34] <fabbione> Treenaks: i need you to gdb again and set a breakpoint on fbBlt
[01:34] <tseng> Lathiat: also the patch is wrong, I figured out the proper way
[01:34] <fabbione> Treenaks: but i don't know how long time it will take to debug
[01:34] <linux_mafia> tseng - all members of voltron are here 
[01:34] <fabbione> Treenaks: you will have to go into that function step by step for "N" amount of times
[01:34] <tseng> linux_mafia: ok.
[01:35] <fabbione> Treenaks: where N is a totally unknown value for me
[01:35] <linux_mafia> tseng - never mind ;)
[01:35] <Treenaks> fabbione: and you want to know the moment it crashes?
[01:35] <fabbione> Treenaks: i need to see what causes the crash
[01:36] <Treenaks> fabbione: OK, I'll see what I can do
[01:36] <fabbione> it's the only function called before both the crashes
[01:36] <fabbione> Treenaks: it's a pain the butt to test it
[01:36] <fabbione> but if you can reproduce it in one go using chvt
[01:36] <fabbione> than it will be relatively simple
[01:37] <Treenaks> fabbione: invoke-rc.d gdm start; chvt 1 <wait for aplay to show up (playing the 'you may now login' sound)>, chvt 7 -> boom
[01:38] <fabbione> Treenaks: ok.. i just don't know how many times that function is called
[01:38] <fabbione> that means that you might have to go trough it several times before it crashes
[01:39] <fabbione> and the funny thing is that i am not even sure why it's called
[01:39] <fabbione> considering that it's only inside the fb driver for X
[01:39] <Treenaks> fabbione: strange..
[01:41] <Treenaks> fabbione: my X log says this:
[01:41] <Treenaks> (==) Silicon Motion(0): DPI set to (75, 75)
[01:41] <Treenaks> (II) Loading sub module "fb"
[01:41] <Treenaks> (II) LoadModule: "fb"
[01:41] <Treenaks> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libfb.a
[01:41] <Treenaks> (why is DPI 75,75? that's wrong.. should figure that out separately)
[01:41] <fabbione> Treenaks: yes please.. one thing at a time :-)
[01:42] <Treenaks> fabbione: but anyway.. module "fb" is loaded by siliconmotion
[01:43] <fabbione> Treenaks: ok..
[01:43] <fabbione> i am trying to figure out who is calling fbBlt
[01:43] <Treenaks> I think
[01:43] <fabbione> i am up to the XAA layer now
[01:43] <Treenaks> NoAccel doesn't make a difference..
[01:43] <Treenaks> I tried
[01:44] <fabbione> nahh i am trying to understand what calls fbBtl going trough the stack of 200000 layers
[01:47] <fabbione>        Option "ShadowFB" "boolean"
[01:47] <fabbione> Treenaks: did you try that option?
[01:49] <Treenaks> fabbione: not yet, but I have a crash line number for you
[01:49] <Treenaks> 272     in fbblt.c
[01:49] <Treenaks> (using step)
[01:50] <fabbione> ooooooohhhh key
[01:50] <fabbione>                     FbDoLeftMaskByteMergeRop (dst, bits, startbyte, startmask);
[01:51] <fabbione> Treenaks
[01:51] <fabbione> exit gdb
[01:51] <Treenaks> should I have done 'next' instead of 'step' ?
[01:51] <Treenaks> ok
[01:51] <fabbione> and set a break point to that funciont
[01:51] <fabbione> FbDoLeftMaskByteMergeRop
[01:51] <fabbione> otherwise gimme access and i will do it myself ;)
[01:52] <Treenaks> fabbione: I know how it works :)
[01:52] <fabbione> ok..
[01:52] <Treenaks> rinse, repeat until you hit a call to libc :)
[01:53] <fabbione> than you can help me just doing:
[01:53] <fabbione> apt-get source xfree86 
[01:53] <fabbione> cd xfree86-<tab>
[01:53] <fabbione> fakeroot make -f debian/rules setup
[01:53] <fabbione> cd build-tree/xc
[01:53] <fabbione> and send me a patch when you have done ;)
[01:54] <fabbione> or send me that damn card
[01:54] <Treenaks> fabbione: it's a laptop :)
[01:54] <fabbione> or gimme your bank account number.. i can send you 10 Euros for an ATI or something :P
[01:54] <Treenaks> fabbione: but anyway -- FbDoLeftMaskByteMergeRop seems to be a macro or something.. there's no function by that name
[01:55] <fabbione> #define FbDoLeftMaskByteMergeRop(dst, src, lb, l) { \
[01:55] <fabbione>     FbBits  __xor = ((src) & _ca2) ^ _cx2; \
[01:55] <fabbione>     FbDoLeftMaskByteRRop(dst,lb,l,((src) & _ca1) ^ _cx1,__xor); \
[01:55] <fabbione> }
[01:55] <fabbione> yeah it's a macro
[01:56] <fabbione> #define FbDoMaskRRop(dst, and, xor, mask) \
[01:56] <fabbione>     (((dst) & ((and) | ~(mask))) ^ (xor & mask))
[01:56] <fabbione> and it ends here
[01:56] <fabbione> (after 5 bunches all over the code)
[01:56] <Treenaks> which is just bit magic
[01:57] <Treenaks> s/magic/twiddling
[01:58] <bender> hi! i have a rought time making gdm using XDMCP. event tho it's checked in the gdm configuration, i can't connect to the box with it.
[01:59] <fabbione> Treenaks: i am double checking.. just to be sure i didn't miss anything
[02:00] <Treenaks> fabbione: I'm getting the source
[02:01] <fabbione> Treenaks: at which depth is the frambuffer initialized?
[02:01] <fabbione> 16 bits?
[02:01] <Treenaks> fabbione: X frame buffer?
[02:01] <fabbione> yeah
[02:01] <fabbione> what is the depth of the screen?
[02:01] <Treenaks> fabbione: uh.. I run X at 24 bits, but the crash is reproducable at 16 bits as well
[02:01] <fabbione> 24 or 16 bits?
[02:01] <fabbione> HMMMMMM
[02:02] <fabbione> at 24 bits it should be calling fbblt24
[02:02] <Treenaks> shall I try at 8?
[02:02] <fabbione> and not fbblt
[02:02] <Treenaks> fabbione: maybe fbblt24 is an a macro as well?
[02:02] <fabbione> could be
[02:03] <Treenaks> argh, need build-deps as well
[02:04] <fabbione> Treenaks: no if you want only the source
[02:06] <Treenaks> fabbione: it needs at least dbs and build-essential to unpack I guess
[02:06] <fabbione> yes
[02:06] <fabbione> otherwise you can do it manually
[02:06] <fabbione> untar the thing
[02:06] <Treenaks> it's already running..
[02:06] <fabbione> ok
[02:07] <Treenaks> yay for uncapped ADSL :)
[02:07] <fabbione> ehhe
[02:08] <Treenaks> wait a minute.. kernel module vesafb is loaded..
[02:08] <Treenaks> I'll unload that..
[02:08] <fabbione> HMMM
[02:10] <Treenaks> fabbione: still crashes
[02:11] <lypanov> anyone know how to compile qt using programs on ubuntu?
[02:11] <lypanov> e.g, kde :)
[02:12] <fabbione> lypanov: it's enough to enable universe archive in /etc/apt/sources.list
[02:12] <jdub> lypanov: you can install kde from universe
[02:12] <fabbione> Treenaks: ok :(
[02:12] <lypanov> want to compile...
[02:12] <lypanov> 3.3.x
[02:13] <jdub> lypanov: you might want to check out jriddell's repository
[02:13] <jdub> lypanov: might be mentioned on the wiki, definitely mentioned on the mailing list
[02:13] <lypanov> still... need to compile
[02:13] <lypanov> so no repo is really gonna help
[02:13] <Riddell> someone called?
[02:13] <jdub> look at that
[02:13] <jdub> it's the man :)
[02:13] <lypanov> why on earth didn't gaim complete Riddell...
[02:14] <lypanov> Riddell: you happen to know the ./configure line to get kde to actually see my qt install?
[02:14] <Riddell> lypanov: no, it's always just worked for me, where is your qt install?
[02:15] <lypanov> argh
[02:15] <jdub> heh
[02:15] <jdub> "not installed" ;)
[02:15] <lypanov> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[02:15] <lypanov>   libqt3-mt-dev
[02:15] <lypanov> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[02:15] <lypanov>   libqt3-dev
[02:16] <Riddell> I should make a KDE page on the wiki
[02:16] <lypanov> i hate the devel seperation in debian/ubuntu its wasted me crap loads of time
[02:16] <lypanov> Riddell: that would rock :)
[02:16] <Treenaks> fabbione: doesn't upstream have any clue (the bug is still present in xorg..)
[02:17] <lypanov> upstream never has a clue :)
[02:17] <jdub> Riddell: probably best to start off on UniverseProposals
[02:17] <lypanov> yay. compile bitch compile
[02:17] <lypanov> thx Riddell / jdub / fabbione
[02:18] <Riddell> lypanov: all distributions separate devel and non devel for libraries, saves disk space
[02:19] <lypanov> still i'd love an option "-imadevel" that would just *always* install the -dev versions
[02:19] <housetier> I thought that's what gentoo was created for
[02:21] <lypanov> housetier: shame that i just don't have the cpu power to run it anymore
[02:22] <CortoMaltese> lypanov: that's why i'm moving to ubuntu from gentoo too :(
[02:22] <lypanov> CortoMaltese: sucks :(
[02:22] <lypanov> ubuntu is *just* good enough though
[02:23] <lypanov> so nm
[02:23] <CortoMaltese> are you already using it?
[02:23] <fabbione> Treenaks: the fb stuff in xorg is older than the one we have now
[02:24] <fabbione> Treenaks: and there are a few changes on the siliconmotion driver to use different XAA extensions
[02:24] <fabbione> Treenaks: updating the driver itself is not enough
[02:24] <fabbione> Treenaks: you need to greb the xaa stuff and the fb stuff too to be sure 100%
[02:24] <Treenaks> fabbione: I tried by compiling xorg from source
[02:24] <Treenaks> fabbione: all of it
[02:24] <fabbione> Treenaks: and did you run xorg or only took the driver?
[02:25] <Treenaks> xorg
[02:25] <Treenaks> I ran all of xorg
[02:25] <fabbione> ol
[02:25] <fabbione> ok
[02:25] <fabbione> than there is nothing i can check.. we will have to open a bug upstream
[02:25] <Treenaks> OK
[02:25] <fabbione> for your testing i understood that you only used the driver
[02:27] <fabbione> anyway i am off for the weekend
[02:27] <fabbione> Treenaks: thanks a lot for your tests
[02:27] <fabbione> Treenaks: whatever you figure out just add it to the bug
[02:27] <fabbione> monday i will push the bug upstream
[02:27] <fabbione> or bug daniels to do so ;)
[02:28] <Treenaks> fabbione: OK :)
[02:28] <Treenaks> fabbione: have a nice weekend
[02:28] <fabbione> thanks you too
[02:28] <fabbione> i might pass by once in a while ;)
[02:45] <jacob> Is upgrading from the Warty pre-release to the real version supported/supposed to work flawlessly ?
[02:47] <cujosuperfly> jdub - remember me?  i was having problems with the touchpad
[02:47] <Treenaks> jacob: just keep upgrading daily..
[02:47] <Kamion> jacob: yes
[02:48] <jacob> Treenaks, Kamion, great, ill install it then right away
[02:48] <cujosuperfly> i just removed the synaptic entry from the the XFConfig file.  I dont know yet if there are any major disadvantages, but firefox is usable now
[02:49] <Iorek> right away? I thought it was out the 28th
[02:49] <jordi> Iorek: there are tests cd's
[02:51] <Iorek> oh, those :)
[02:51] <Iorek> well, I update weekly
[02:51] <Baumi> hi, is the LIRC module included in ubuntu?
[02:54] <mir> How is Ubuntu compared to Mepis ?..
[02:54] <mir> Anyone knows?
[02:54] <cujosuperfly> mir - just basically?
[02:55] <Baumi> i tryed mepis today.. it didnt start ;-)
[02:55] <mir> Yepp.. I know that Mepis is KDE and Ubuntu is GNOME (by default).. Thats why I want to try Ubuntu I like gnome, are there other differences.. on a general level
[02:56] <cujosuperfly> mepis is kde-happy and last i checked, cost money.  i played with it about say 6 months ago, and it wasn't too shabby.
[02:56] <igo1> does anyone know how to get write privileges on a ntfs partition? i think my fstab is okay
[02:57] <Iorek> you need extra soft for that
[02:57] <igo1> which soft?
[02:58] <mir> cujosuperfly: Hmm.. I Think it is free... or they have a free version ?.. The reviews about it are very good, execpt for that it is KDE and I just cant stand KDE
[02:58] <Iorek> no idea, but a quick search on linuxquestions.org should give you soem answers :)
[03:01] <jacob> Is there a package list of what is on the cd ?
[03:01] <Mirno> mir,   are you the owner of that nick ?
[03:02] <mir> Mirno: Yes
[03:02] <Mirno> mir,   'k
[03:02] <mir> Mirno: Its our family name
[03:02] <Mirno> mir,   My name is Mironov ..
[03:02] <Mirno> mir,   mdr
[03:02] <Mirno> s/mdr/lol/
[03:03] <Mirno> mir,  I used to use that nick, but somebody registered it ;( hh
[03:03] <Mirno> mir,   bah, nevermind
[03:03] <mir> Mirno: I have been using it for at least hmm.. 10 years?
[03:04] <Mirno> I used it a long time ago.
[03:04] <Mirno> few years, not 10 
[03:04] <mir> :-).. I registered it for maybee 2 years ago in this net
[03:04] <Iorek> Mirno,: ah, Dutch mumbo Jumbo ;)
[03:04] <cujosuperfly> anyone have problems installing tetex-doc and/or tetex-extra?  synaptic can't find them
[03:04] <Mirno> lypanov,   it means Mort De Rire in french, litterally dead of fun ....
[03:05] <mir> Oki. I have downloaded Ubuntu, and burned so I am going to reboot now, and install it.. wish be luck... see u later
[03:05] <Mirno> good luck
[03:05] <cujosuperfly> i stand corrected on the mepis thing.  they have free versions.  last time i was there i just noticed the pay ones.
[03:05] <Iorek> but it's KDE
[03:05] <afonit> cujosuperfly:  go into your synaptic preferences and check the other repositories, then youw ill see it
[03:06] <cujosuperfly> afonit  - they are all checked except for the cdrom one.  i dont have the cd with me
[03:07] <yyc747> is ubuntu free-software-only?
[03:07] <lypanov> Mirno: "death from laughing" right?
[03:08] <Mirno> lypanov,   yep
[03:08] <yyc747> how much of a pain is it to set up non-free? (option in installer, uncommenting lines, or what)?
[03:08] <lypanov> it always makes me grin :)
[03:08] <Mirno> lypanov,   hehe
[03:08] <lypanov> and i don't even speak french :P
[03:08] <lypanov> those must be the words i know :P
[03:08] <Iorek> it beats "rolling over the floor laughing"
[03:08] <lypanov> yup
[03:08] <Iorek> I mean, imagine that
[03:09] <lypanov> but rotflmao is funny :)
[03:09] <Iorek> has anybody ever in the history of man rolled over the floor laughing?
[03:09] <Mirno> lypanov,   bah English speaking people usuallyu don't even bother speaking other languages than there's ... 
[03:09] <Iorek> klopt :p
[03:09] <lypanov> ja zeker wel
[03:09] <lypanov> :P
[03:09] <Iorek> hola!
[03:09] <Mirno> lypanov,   Ny y po rouski toje ?
[03:09] <lypanov> como estas?
[03:09] <Treenaks> lypanov: Help! Nog iemand die Nederlands spreekt :P
[03:09] <lypanov> nyet or whatever it is
[03:10] <Mirno> ptdr
[03:10] <Mirno> oops
[03:10] <lypanov> Mirno: i'm half dutch half english
[03:10] <lypanov> Treenaks: hehe. mooi zo :P
[03:10] <Iorek> al mijn vragen in het Engels en blijkt heel het kanaal Nederlandstalig
[03:10] <lypanov> hehe
[03:10] <Iorek> kom da tegen
[03:10] <afonit> if anyone in here uses inkscape, do you know how to insert a bullet?
[03:10] <Mirno> ptdr = would be more like Farting of Laughting ...
[03:10] <lypanov> Mirno: lol
[03:10] <Mirno> Pt De Rire
[03:10] <Mirno> hihi
[03:10] <Iorek> "het" account doesn't seem right
[03:11] <kez> hi :)
[03:11] <Treenaks> Iorek: translating "account" as "rekening" is not entirely correct either
[03:11] <lypanov> Iorek: kspreek nederlands maar 3 jaartjes dus voeg ik tje na gewoon alles dan is alles gewoon een hetje :P
[03:11] <Iorek> *plat*
[03:11] <Mirno> well Pter de rire would be Farting of Laughting .. but Pt de rire would be more like .. uh .. stone (or whatsoever you call it when ya had drugs or beeing drunk) of laughting
[03:11] <lypanov> hehe
[03:12] <lypanov> Iorek: kheb ut van mn 13 jaar oud nichtje geleerd :P
[03:12] <Iorek> goeie leraar precies ;)
[03:12] <lypanov> :P
[03:12] <lypanov> 'eeeel goede eigenlijk ben best blij ermeej :>
[03:13] <Iorek> maar "ut" is wel iets typisch 13-jarig meisje ja...:P
[03:13] <lypanov> :P
[03:13] <Treenaks> Iorek: ermeej ook :)
[03:13] <lypanov> egt ook tog? :P
[03:13] <kelvin> anybody out there using wifi?
[03:13] <kelvin> my wireless was working fine until last night
[03:13] <lypanov> kvind ut wel vet dat ik zo makkelijk net als een 13 jarig meisje kan doen hihi
[03:13] <kelvin> when I did an apt-get upgrade
[03:14] <Iorek> lypanov: yeah, alle pedofielen van heel het internet achter uw gat :P
[03:14] <lypanov> haha
[03:14] <lypanov> kut dan kap ik ermeej :P
[03:14] <Iorek> ghaaa! You suddenly aged at least ten years!
[03:14] <lypanov> lol
[03:14] <Treenaks> kelvin: yes, it works fine for me.. what kind of wifi card do you have?
[03:14] <lypanov> mdr
[03:14] <kelvin> an smc 11g-card
[03:14] <plovs_work> lypanov, misschien moeten we dit kanaal #ubuntu-nl noemen?
[03:14] <lypanov> hehe
[03:14] <kelvin> Treenaks, it was working fine
[03:14] <Treenaks> kelvin: that works for me...
[03:15] <lypanov> pourquoi non?
[03:15] <kelvin> when was the last time you did an apt-get upgrade?
[03:15] <Iorek> btw, seems like an mp3 encoder isn't installed...at least sound juicer tells me so
[03:15] <lypanov> Iorek: OGGGGG :P
[03:15] <lypanov> Iorek: else lame is 1337
[03:15] <Iorek> neenee
[03:15] <Treenaks> ok.. #ubuntu-nl exists
[03:15] <Iorek> ogg kan wel beter zijn
[03:15] <kelvin> Treenaks, are you using the same card?
[03:16] <Iorek> en lame zit nie in ubuntu repo
[03:16] <Iorek> enfin...ogg it is :P
[03:16] <Treenaks> kelvin: yes, SMC 11G card
[03:16] <Treenaks> kelvin: pcmcia
[03:16] <lypanov> ohja geen lame snie leuk he
[03:16] <kelvin> Treenaks, me too
[03:16] <kelvin> Treenaks, when was the last time you did an apt-get upgrade?
[03:16] <Treenaks> kelvin: this morning
[03:16] <kelvin> ok
[03:17] <Treenaks> kelvin: but I have some trouble connecting to my wifi laptop now yes
[03:17] <fridge> hi, can anyone give me the right dev= line for a IDE burner for cdrecord? I can't seem to get it right
[03:17] <Treenaks> it worked for a while
[03:17] <Treenaks> argh!
[03:17] <Treenaks> fridge: dev=/dev/hdwhatever (where whatever is the name of your CD-burner)
[03:17] <plovs_work> fridge, /dev/hdc /dev/hdd, look into /etc/fstab
[03:18] <fridge> ahh
[03:18] <kelvin> doesn't cdrecord auto-scan for burners?
[03:18] <fridge> I was trying all sorts of stuff with ATAPI:
[03:19] <plovs_work> kelvin, ide-scsi , not 2.6 ide stuff
[03:19] <kelvin> ah
[03:20] <fridge> Treenaks, plovs_work thanks
[03:22] <fridge> I think I've done it 3 different ways now
[03:22] <fridge> in debian it started with the IDE-SCSI module
[03:22] <fridge> then started using ATAPI: prefix
[03:22] <fridge> now its direct to the block device
[03:22] <stianh> Ubuntu is nice :D
[03:22] <stianh> Thumbs up :)
[03:23] <plovs_work> fridge, waiting to get rid of cdrecord
[03:24] <Iorek> actually, does something like K3b for Gnome exist?
[03:25] <deFrysk> gcombust
[03:25] <kelvin> Iorek: nothing good... :-)
[03:25] <Iorek> heh, thought so
[03:25] <kelvin> so far, nautilus-cd-burner has worked incredibly well for me
[03:25] <deFrysk> nothing like nautilus for iso-burning though
[03:26] <deFrysk> kelvin, agree
[03:26] <plovs_work> Iorek, xcdroast, but not as good
[03:26] <kelvin> xcdroast has the worst UI in the universe
[03:26] <kelvin> hate it. 
[03:26] <plovs_work> deFrysk, you can burn an iso from nautilus, or that is not what you meant?
[03:26] <deFrysk> plovs_work, yup
[03:26] <Treenaks> plovs_work: you can burn ISOs but also make CDs with files
[03:27] <kelvin> apparently, rhythmbox cvs can burn audio cd's
[03:27] <Treenaks> all n-c-b needs is audio CD burning capabilities
[03:27] <kelvin> by using n-c-b as a backend
[03:27] <Treenaks> (using gstreamer to convert everything of course)
[03:27] <Iorek> just trying to figure out HOW you'd burn cds with nautilus cd burner :P
[03:27] <Treenaks> and video CD/DVD support
[03:27] <deFrysk> gnome2.10 wil be great 
[03:27] <deFrysk> with cool new stuff
[03:27] <Treenaks> Iorek: check out the Places menu
[03:28] <pitti> Iorek: insert a blank cd, or right-click on an ISO and select "burn"
[03:28] <kelvin> Treenaks, is your wifi working or not?  :-)
[03:28] <plovs_work> just but overburning to on in config editor
[03:28] <kelvin> I'm on wired atm
[03:28] <pitti> Iorek: or select it from Places, yes
[03:28] <jovian> how can I install a package from the harddrive?
[03:28] <plovs_work> if the cd is too big
[03:28] <Treenaks> kelvin: uh it seems to be doing weird stuff now, but it worked before
[03:28] <pitti> jovian: dpkg -i foo.deb
[03:28] <kelvin> ok
[03:28] <deFrysk> dpkg -i <file>
[03:28] <jovian> thanks pitti and deFrysk
[03:29] <stianh> I like Ubuntu so much right now, that I am thinking of putting it on my laptop, does anyone have any experience with Ubuntu on laptops?
[03:29] <AndersAA> stianh: works great on my laptop
[03:30] <Treenaks> stianh: I do, works great
[03:30] <pantz> hi ubuntu-ers - i just updated with synaptic and it installed a new version of 'hal' - but with a slip of my finger i said no to accepting the new config file
[03:30] <AndersAA> detected all my hardware fine too
[03:30] <kelvin> stianh, I run it on my laptop right now
[03:30] <plovs_work> deFrysk, what will be new in 2.10?
[03:30] <stianh> AndersAA, Treenaks: cool :=)
[03:30] <pantz> i reinstalled hal to try to get the option of accepting the new config file but it didn't prompt me on reinstall
[03:30] <Kamion> pantz: the new one should be in /etc/wherever.dpkg-new
[03:30] <pantz> any ideas on how i can use the new one
[03:30] <pantz> Kamion: thanks
[03:30] <stianh> still, I'll keep it running on my desktop for a few days before I put it on my laptop :)
[03:31] <Iorek> grm so much for drag n drop...nautilus would be so much easier if there was a twin window option somewhere :P
[03:31] <Treenaks> Iorek: twin window option?
[03:31] <Iorek> yeah
[03:31] <Iorek> commander style
[03:31] <Iorek> (that sounded cool)
[03:31] <Treenaks> Iorek: oh of course..
[03:32] <Treenaks> metacity needs focus work first..
[03:32] <Iorek> I want nautilus to improve, COMMANDER STYLE!
[03:32] <Treenaks> Iorek: 8)
[03:32] <ross> Lord_Shadow: use gnome-commander
[03:32] <Iorek> it's not in the ubuntu repo, and getting it in universe requires a shitload of packages to be changed
[03:33] <pantz> Kamion: any idea how to restart hal? 
[03:34] <carlos> Kamion: do we have a cd check option with the installer?
[03:34] <Kamion> pantz: /etc/init.d/hal restart or similar, I guess
[03:35] <jdub> nup not anymore
[03:35] <jdub> you just restart d-bus
[03:35] <Kamion> carlos: yes, either (boot in expert mode, or go back to the main menu), then 'check CD-ROM integrity'
[03:35] <pantz> Kamion: just found it - yeah it was d-bus
[03:35] <pantz> names were close :/   NOT
[03:36] <carlos> Kamion: a user says that the installer fails always installing a package, so I'm thinking on redirect to the CDROM check dialog
[03:36] <carlos> Kamion: thanks
[03:36] <Kamion> carlos: yes, likely a duff CD
[03:38] <font_> hi all, what to do if i find a specific manpage is not up to date?
[03:38] <Kamion> file a bug
[03:38] <font_> ok
[03:41] <ploum> Hi
[03:41] <ploum> Is there an easy way to convert a Debian into Ubuntu without reinstalling all ?
[03:41] <seb128> you can pin warty > 1000 and dist-upgrade
[03:42] <seb128> but that's not == a fresh install
[03:42] <ross> personally i recommend a fresh install
[03:42] <ross> much nicer
[03:42] <seb128> me too
[03:42] <ross> only takes 20 minutes
[03:42] <ploum> well, I think I will do this for my mother
[03:42] <ploum> simply keeping her "/home" (on another partition)
[03:43] <ploum> But she have a wireless cards no supported under Linux (and I've bought a Linuxant wrapper)
[03:46] <joolz> i have a notebook (asus a2500) which now dual boots fc2 and win2k. Should I expect any problems when I remove fc2 and install ubuntu instead?
[03:46] <Treenaks> joolz: o
[03:46] <Treenaks> no
[03:46] <joolz> Treenaks: that's the right answer :) Thanks
[03:46] <Iorek> joolz yes. Your notebook will mysteriously steal small but valuable objects
[03:47] <Iorek> *nods sagely*
[03:47] <joolz> Iorek: bummer. OK, that's it, no ubuntu then :)
[03:47] <Iorek> OTHER people's valuable objects
[03:47] <Iorek> it's an extra reason
[03:47] <joolz> hehe
[03:48] <Iorek> we're all getting rich very fast lately
[03:48] <joolz> IIRC there were grub issues when dual booting with win2k. So ubuntu doesn't have these?
[03:49] <Iorek> not to my knowledge. Maybe someone else knows?
[03:50] <jono> hi all
[03:51] <|trey|> joolz: yes, its an upstream bug for grub... appears to be fixed though... I don't use Winblows, so I couldn't tell you for sure...
[03:53] <|trey|> Just out of curiosity, who is doing the Ubuntu artwork?
[03:53] <|trey|> (namely the icons etc)
[03:54] <joolz> |trey|: maybe I'll give it a go this weekend on the notebook. I'll let you guys know how it went.
[03:55] <|trey|> joolz: sounds good... if you have problems, make sure to file bugs about it...
[03:57] <ploum> f*** connection !!
[03:57] <Iorek> oy!
[03:57] <ploum> Sorry, I don't know if you've seen my previous messages and if you have replied
[03:58] <Iorek> I resent that!
[03:58] <ploum> I was talking alone for a while (my ISP change my IP every 20minutes and the modem is not aware that the IP has changed)
[04:01] <joolz> Treenaks: Belgium: the Canada of Europe :)
[04:03] <Iorek> klein beetje kleiner...:)
[04:03] <ploum> Yes, belgian jokes are very popular..
[04:03] <ploum> because even non-belgian undestand it
[04:04] <joolz> ploum: I don't get it (maarja, k ben dan ook maar een nederlandse limburger :)
[04:06] <togs> are people answering questions today? :)
[04:06] <Kamion> that depends on the question. :)
[04:06] <togs> heh, I guess so
[04:06] <joolz> togs: if someone answered that with "no", it would mean "yes", no?
[04:07] <ploum> joolz, we zijn misschien klein, maar we hebben drie taalen en dat is een beetje moielijk voor mij ;)
[04:07] <togs> just that the pretty login screen won't come up any more, i just updated Ubuntu, and I have to type startx to get GNOME up
[04:07] <togs> joolz, I don't understand
[04:07] <joolz> ploum: inderdaad. Ik hier maar een paar, PHP, plpgsql en bash-script :)
[04:08] <togs> if you mean that I would've asked anyway, well, you'd be wrong :)
[04:08] <ploum> joolz, php and bash script zijn niet officieel taalen in belgie :-)   (maar een dag misschien, ik hope zo ;) )
[04:09] <joolz> ploum: :)
[04:10] <joolz> togs: you asked "are questions being answered?". That's a question, so if an answer came (regardless what it was) the answer would be yes.
[04:10] <togs> ah, I gotcha
[04:10] <Iorek> *gniffel :P
[04:11] <ploum> That's the story of the advocate with a panel saying : "I answer two questions for 1000$, you can ask whatever you want"
[04:11] <ploum> And the guy talk to the advocate and ask : "do you really answer any questions for 1000$ ?"
[04:12] <ploum> "Yes, and now what's your second question ?"
[04:12] <togs> heh :)
[04:13] <Iorek> obvious :)
[04:13] <togs> I'm gonna try a full reboot. wish me luck :P
[04:16] <WW_> Whenever I boot, I get kernel messages (errors?) about hw_random.  Can I get rid of these somehow?
[04:16] <togs> yeah, that fixed it, sorry for asking a pointless question
[04:17] <togs> guess I shoulda tried a full reboot first :)
[04:18] <WW_> Is hw_random a kernel module?  Could I just put it in the blacklist?
[04:18] <Treenaks> WW_: why would you do that?
[04:19] <WW_> Because I get errors whenever I boot, saying it failed.
[04:19] <joolz> WW_: same here, don't know what it is
[04:20] <lypanov> apt-get install kdelibs4-dev
[04:20] <lypanov> erm
[04:20] <lypanov> kdelibs-dev even
[04:20] <lypanov> didn't work
[04:20] <lypanov> i had to run it twice :)
[04:20] <joolz> btw, I have 1gb ram, I read somewhere that U supports only 800mb (something like that). I'm running the default kernel now... Will that cause any problems?
[04:20] <togs> i get an error about some PCMIA socket not working, using yenta instead or something like that, when i boot, it doesn't seem to hurt it though :)
[04:21] <WW_> togs: I get that too.
[04:22] <WW_> joolz: You can access the full gig by using the -686 kernel instead of -386.
[04:22] <togs> WW_, does it worry your install at all? I don't even know what it is :)
[04:22] <joolz> WW_: ok, tx
[04:22] <Treenaks> togs: it's just n informational message
[04:22] <Ex-Cyber> joolz: my memory's a bit fuzzy on this but I think the normal kernel cap is 960MB and it'll work fine but you won't be able to use the full 1GB
[04:22] <Treenaks> yenta is the better driver anyway 8)
[04:22] <togs> is there a way to view a logof the startup messages?
[04:23] <WW_> togs: I think there were some ubuntu devs talking ubuntu trying to run pcmcia stuff on a desktop.  I thought that eventually the yenta stuff would get fixed, but not yet.
[04:24] <togs> meh, i dunno
[04:25] <joolz> sudo apt-get install linux-image-2.6-686 wants to install lilo ???
[04:25] <joolz> weird
[04:25] <togs> as long as the updates don't bust anything, i'm happy :)
[04:25] <WW_> togs: I just reread what I wrote.  That wasn't too clear!  My understanding is that ubuntu tries to load PCMCIA modules on ANY computer, even if it is a desktop.
[04:26] <WW_> i.e. even if it is not a laptop.
[04:26] <togs> WW_, you're talking to the novice of novices, so as long as someone knows what's going on, i'm fine with that :)
[04:28] <togs> ah, so PCMCIA is laptop only stuff?
[04:28] <WW_> togs: Right.
[04:28] <togs> oky 
[04:29] <jacob> Why does the MD5SUMS differ for the diff. download locations ?
[04:29] <WW_> togs: My understanding (also at the novice level) is that it is a bug, but a harmless one.  Really, if your computer is not a laptop, ubuntu shouldn't even try to install the PCMCIA stuff.
[04:29] <togs> WW_, I suppose this is what comes of using a preview install :)
[04:30] <WW_> togs:  Right.  It's more fun this way :-)
[04:30] <togs> on that note, when Ubuntu offcially comes out, we won't have to install it agin, we can just update?
[04:31] <WW_> togs: That's what I was told.
[04:31] <Tomcat_> What does uname -a print at the moment?
[04:31] <joolz> this is a preview?? Woaw, just like using windows again :)
[04:32] <togs> heh, i've had this installed for about a week or so, haven't used XP since then :)
[04:32] <joolz> Linux joolz 2.6.8.1-3-386 #1 Mon Sep 27 10:50:47 UTC 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[04:33] <joolz> strange that apt wants to install lilo and sources too
[04:34] <joolz> ok, now the reboot (brb)
[04:34] <ploum> my friend has just installed Ubuntu on his Laptop. All is fine except he has no sound (no /dev/dsp ).  Is it a know bug ? (a Dell Laptop)
[04:35] <maswan> Mithrandir: around? I got another amd64 bug now
[04:35] <Mithrandir> pong!
[04:35] <WW_> Ah, I found a similar complaint about hw_random in bugzilla #1552: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1552
[04:35] <maswan> Mithrandir: grub: "selected item cannot fit into memory" or something like that.
[04:36] <maswan> Mithrandir: (I tried on one of the dl145s instead of ravel)
[04:36] <Mithrandir> maswan: hm, using the preview or a daily?
[04:36] <maswan> Mithrandir: preview
[04:36] <Mithrandir> maswan: known issue; use a daily
[04:36] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok.
[04:36] <Mithrandir> (it's the 2GB grub limit)
[04:37] <Mithrandir> maswan: if it's not fixed in the dailies, file a bug, assign it to me and whine loudly. :)
[04:37] <WW_> Are there supposed to be symlinks in / to initrd and vmlinuz files that are in /boot?
[04:40] <maswan> Mithrandir: btw, I just got a cd/dvd burner in my workstation at work, so now I won't have to crawl down to a collegues machine in another office. ;)
[04:41] <Mithrandir> maswan: nice. :)  I'm considering getting a DVD dual-layer, external USB+firewire recorder thingy..
[04:41] <Mithrandir> only is plextor doesn't ship the one I want yet, they only have an internal PATA (or possibly SATA) version.
[04:41] <ploum> what's the source list of Ubuntu ? (I want to try to add Ubuntu stuff on my Debian)
[04:41] <WW_> Sorry, I don't know how the boot process works.  Is it normal to have symlinks in the root directory / to the files initrd.img, initrd.img.old, vmlinuz, mvlinuz.old that are in /boot?
[04:42] <Mithrandir> ploum: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu warty main
[04:42] <Mithrandir> ploum: but you're very much on your own doing something like that.
[04:42] <WW_> I thought all that stuff stayed in /boot
[04:44] <ploum> thx Mithrandir 
[04:46] <maswan> ah, nevermind, it was my own stupidity that limited bandwidth
[04:46] <Mithrandir> maswan ;)
[04:47] <maswan> stupid microscopic standard max tcp window size
[04:48] <Mithrandir> it's fixed in 2.6.8, isn't it?
[04:50] <hiro> Hey guys
[04:50] <hiro> Trying to install PHP on PPC platform
[04:50] <hiro> Are there no packages for this? I always get 404 not found
[04:51] <Mithrandir> run apt-get update first?
[04:51] <hiro> lemme try
[04:51] <togs> heh, the music for frozen bubble is good
[04:52] <hiro> right, that fixed it (silly me)
[04:52] <hiro> thanks. Mithrandir
[04:53] <maswan> Mithrandir: dunno, haven't checked that. I run default woody 686 kernel on my workstation.
[04:54] <netdur> how do I install ppp? (in order to use adsl modem, I use redhat9 now)
[04:58] <maswan> Mithrandir: is there an easy option for "no, don't copy all packages to the hd"?
[04:58] <maswan> Mithrandir: at the end of the first install section?
[04:59] <maswan> nevermind
[05:00] <Mithrandir> maswan: there's some debconf param when booting, I don't remember.
[05:00] <polok> off to bed
[05:00] <polok> g'night
[05:11] <netdur> how to install ppp?
[05:12] <ross> netdur: it should be installed already i think, but "sudo apt-get install ppp" or use synaptic
[05:13] <netdur> it's already installed here, and I need to install ppp to use my modem! i'm online from red hat 9
[05:13] <defendguin> when i booted up just now i noticed something in the boot sequesnce i havent seen before.  it said laptop_mode.  is this new?
[05:13] <netdur> I mean, it's NOT already
[05:13] <netdur> sorry for my english
[05:13] <lypanov> gotta run
[05:13] <lypanov> ciao all
[05:13] <togs> so you need a seperate ppp package?
[05:14] <netdur> yep, I think I need to find it online, download then dpkg -i
[05:14] <netdur> I don't know where is it... for ubuntu I mean
[05:14] <ross> netdur: no, it's on the ubuntu CD
[05:15] <netdur> how do I install from cd?
[05:15] <netdur> apt-get install ppp?
[05:15] <togs> so you should be able to use synaptic? i think
[05:16] <netdur> ok, let me reboot... I will tell you if I could install
[05:16] <netdur> bye and thanks
[05:22] <maswan> Mithrandir: Ok, that worked. I guess the graphical stuff is more rewarding if you have a mouse though. :)
[05:23] <Mithrandir> maswan: use "custom" at the start of the installer to go custom. :P
[05:24] <maswan> Mithrandir: I'm a bit miffed about getting the wrong keyboard mappings though, but that install won't live long enough for me to care really. :)
[05:24] <Mithrandir> maswan: it should be correct, I'd think..
[05:25] <maswan> Mithrandir: I chose english language but location Sweden... it appears that the logic assumes language = keyboard?
[05:25] <Mithrandir> yeah, possibly.
[05:26] <Mithrandir> maswan: file a wishlist bug?
[05:26] <Mithrandir> maswan: or prod Kamion until he fixes it. :P
[05:28] <Mithrandir> maswan: we have mr. Bugzilla on board, though. :)
[05:29] <maswan> Mithrandir: how about a bts-compatible email interface? :)
[05:30] <Mithrandir> maswan: we'll hopefully get an email interface at some point, but Not Ready Yet :/
[05:32] <Kamion> maswan: current versions of the installer ask for the keymap
[05:32] <Kamion> maswan: the preview didn't
[05:33] <maswan> Kamion: I just installed today's current amd64 cdimage and didn't get a question, just for language and location.
[05:33] <Kamion> maswan: definitely /daily/current/?
[05:33] <Kamion> maswan: that's a bug then, please send /var/log/syslog from the installer
[05:34] <maswan> Kamion: the apt cdrom source said 2004-10-08 (in some date format)
[05:34] <Kamion> maswan: /var/log/debian-installer/syslog if you've already got the system running
[05:34] <maswan> # deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 4.10 _Warty Warthog_ - Preview amd64 Binary-1 (20041008)] / unstable main restricted
[05:34] <maswan> to be exact
[05:35] <maswan> Kamion: where do you want it? an http source right now?
[05:36] <maswan> Kamion: or in a mail/bug somewhere?
[05:36] <Kamion> maswan: attached to a new bug would be ideal
[05:37] <maswan> Kamion: ok
[05:43] <mir> I have just installed Ubuntu Linux, updated it with the latest patches etc... most things did go well.. howevery, videoplayback is not working.. I either get a black screen in totem, and with the voice working, or a error msg depending on what type of media file, the error is probably related to the codec not being installed, thats ok... but the blackscreen thing is not.. Anyone got an idea?
[05:44] <mir> No one here?
[05:44] <mir> oki.. I'll return later then
[05:45] <Iorek> mir: try installing the codecs
[05:46] <Iorek> w32codecs
[05:46] <maswan> Kamion: there you go, enjoy!
[05:46] <ross> mir: install totem-xine and try that
[05:47] <Iorek> ah yes, and that too ;)
[05:47] <Iorek> totem-xine and w32codecs
[05:47] <maswan> Mithrandir: is there any difference in kernel for amd64 on the daily/current and the preview? That is, is there any point of me trying it on ravel?
[05:47] <Mithrandir> maswan: I don't know, actually.
[05:48] <mir> there is no package totem-xine in the ubuntu rep
[05:48] <mir> seems it was, but is taken away
[05:50] <mir> Am I suposed to install it from somewhere else ?... Im asking just to make sure, and do things ubuntu way :-)
[05:50] <maswan> Mithrandir: aren't you supposed to know? :)
[05:51] <Mithrandir> maswan: I'm not the one doing kernels, but I don't _think_ there has been any kernel update.
[05:52] <LinuxJones> hi everyone !!
[05:53] <WW_> mir: On my system, totem-xine is from the universe component.  If you don't know how to access the universe component, follow the first three steps here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SynapticHowto
[05:53] <maswan> Mithrandir: well, that's enough for today anyway. perhaps next week. :)
[05:54] <WW_> mir: Then hit Update
[05:54] <WW_> mir: Oops, I mean hit Reload (not Update)
[05:56] <Kamion> maswan: the kernel's been updated somewhat since the preview, yes; see the warty-changes list
[05:57] <mir> WW_: Supose i should have read the docs first. I just assumed that Ubuntu added all the repositiries they had automatically (the official ones)..
[05:58] <anders> anybody has some ubuntu-grubsplash pictures?
[05:58] <WW_> mir: Take a look here to learn more about ubuntu components: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components/document_view
[05:58] <Iorek> they do, but tinkering with universe can be dangerous
[05:58] <Erunamo> kkk
[05:59] <nickjunk> damn i hate reconnects right after i asked something
[06:01] <mir> WW_: Oki.. I see why it was not enabled default.. does w32codecs exist in universe? or should i get it from mrillats?
[06:02] <WW_> mir: w32codecs is not carried by ubuntu; you can get it from marillat.
[06:02] <Iorek> Anders: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuArtwork
[06:02] <Iorek> at th ebottom
[06:03] <LinuxJones> have a nice weekend everyone
[06:03] <ggi> Is anyone else experiencing cracking and popping with Rhythmbox?
[06:07] <WW_> ggi: Not here.
[06:10] <sri> so..
[06:10] <sri> I'm having some strnageness
[06:10] <sri> looks like my ypbind is not working because it can't talk to portmapper
[06:11] <sri> and I think portmapper is not working because 127.0.0.1 doesn't ping
[06:11] <ggi> WW_: It's not too severe on most tracks, but it is very noticeable on some. I get it to a lesser extent with ogg123, but not at all with Muine.
[06:11] <mir> I have been running Ubuntu for about 1 hrs.. So far I like it.. I have not tested mouch yet, but it seems ok..
[06:12] <Iorek> mir: videos playing now?
[06:13] <mir> Iorek: Yepp.. Some small flicks in totem, but thats totem.. i will change to another player
[06:14] <WW_> ggi: FWIW, all my files are .ogg.
[06:14] <mir> And its sound output is not correct.. only my headset is making sound.. not speakers.. but thats small fixable things
[06:14] <sri> is there some ipchains set up for ubuntu?
[06:15] <Keybuk> ipchains is ancient, dude; iptables has been the tool for two+ kernel versions now
[06:15] <sri> oops, yeah, thats what I meant.
[06:16] <sri> iptables --list shows nothing so..something else
[06:16] <mir> sri: The internet is full of expired linux stuff.. check the dates on the docs.. and witch version of the kernel they are speaking of
[06:17] <sri> yesssss..it works.
[06:17] <sri> nis works..woohoo
[06:17] <afonit> hey, do you guys know where there is a good trouble shooting guide for evolution, novell's website is not that helpfull
[06:18] <Kamion> sri: we don't actually firewall anything by default because we don't open any listening ports by default
[06:18] <_brandx_> anyone know what gstreamer plugin is needed to watch asf files?
[06:19] <kelvin> _brandx_, sounds like a job for ffmpeg
[06:22] <WW_> afonit: Let me know if you find one :-)  I've gotten Evolution help from the generous folks here.
[06:23] <j^> just tried installing ubuntu on an ibm x40, the only external usb cdrom drive i have will not boot :/
[06:24] <j^> what now?
[06:24] <irc> hello
[06:24] <afonit> ww_: ya seems pretty scarce, just hard to find any info on it
[06:25] <dewey_> good day mates
[06:25] <dewey_> ok I just booted the live-cd and it did not find a screen so it did not work.
[06:26] <dewey_> now I tried a knoppix live cd and it worked.
[06:26] <WW_> afonit: You can also find an evolution mailing list at lists.ximian.com
[06:27] <afonit> WW_:  thanks I am going to look into that now so I can search it
[06:31] <sri> Kamion: okay
[06:31] <sri> strangely, I rebooted and I'm still having problems talking to portmapper
[06:31] <dewey_> so will I have problems installing ubuntu from the i386.iso with not finding a screen?
[06:31] <whiprush> phlaegel: around?
[06:34] <Kamion> dewey_: well, the live CD does differ from the install CD in a number of ways; you may have better luck with the install CD
[06:35] <sri> I forget, how do you renable the root account?
[06:35] <Kamion> sri: 'sudo passwd root'
[06:37] <sri> Kamion: thank you.
[06:44] <|trey|> sri: sudo (-s) actually grows on you though, give it a shot  :)
[06:44] <|trey|> Simular in style to OS X, so you know its been thought out  :)
[06:45] <Iorek> 3y3 4m r00t!
[06:45] <Iorek> or something equally leet
[06:45] <Iorek> while my three tear old is humming the Emperor's march in the background *grin*
[06:45] <|trey|> year* ?
[06:45] <Iorek> yes
[06:45] <|trey|> ;)
[06:46] <Iorek> I can't type to save my life
[06:46] <|trey|> I can... except the keys run from my fingers sometimes  :(
[06:46] <Iorek> if someone put me behind a keyboard and said "type three random sentences and you'll live" I'd be dead before the third second
[06:47] <|trey|> Iorek: that made little to no sense  :(
[06:48] <Iorek> which proves my point, actually ;)
[06:48] <netgrabber> hi
[06:48] <netgrabber> is the amd64 ubuntu a pure64 distri?
[06:49] <netgrabber> or is it 32/64bit?
[06:49] <Treenaks> netgrabber: afaik it's as 64bit as possible
[06:49] <Treenaks> netgrabber: (don't call it pure64, that's almost tru64, which is something else ;))
[06:49] <Iorek> feh. 64bits is for pussies. I want 512 bits
[06:49] <netgrabber> I had problems using the pure64 port... flash doesn't run etc.
[06:50] <Treenaks> netgrabber: that's because macromedia hasn't ported flash to 64-bit linux yet
[06:50] <Iorek> <-- tech talk from someone who's a noob :P
[06:50] <Treenaks> netgrabber: and they won't release enough specs for a nice, working free alternative to be written
[06:50] <Treenaks> Iorek: 512? pfeh, 64kbit!
[06:50] <Iorek> at least!
[06:51] <netgrabber> Treenaks, yes I know that. but how does ubuntu handle this at the 64bit port?
[06:51] <|trey|> Iorek: How you liking life with Linux so far?  :)
[06:51] <Iorek> trey liked Suse much better than XP, and Ubuntu much better than Ubuntu
[06:51] <Treenaks> netgrabber: I think mixing 32- and 64-bit binaries is not allowed (hence, the 32-bit flash does not work in 64-bit zilla)
[06:52] <Iorek> and although I'm a noob here, the whole village considers me Nerd of the Nerds
[06:52] <|trey|> netgrabber: I don't think AMD64 processors has 32 bit emulation? I thought only Opteron and G5 did?
[06:52] <Iorek> I actually use a TERMINAL. *GASP*
[06:52] <|trey|>  and Ubuntu much better than Ubuntu  <-- you don't mean that  ;)
[06:52] <jordi> daniels: oooh dude
[06:52] <netgrabber> bbl i habe to reboot ;)
[06:53] <Iorek> er
[06:53] <Iorek> Ubuntu much better than Suse
[06:53] <Iorek> dammit
[06:53] <|trey|> Iorek: the goal of Ubuntu, and desktop distro's in general, is to not make you need to use the terminal *shrug*
[06:53] <yyc747> Iorek: I would say you mistyped... it is hard to like ubuntu more than itself
[06:53] <yyc747> lol
[06:53] <Iorek> yes yes I did :P
[06:53] <yyc747> yeah, I'm trying to install ubuntu... it's working well so far
[06:54] <yyc747> how is the community (read as "will you be stoned for suggesting ubuntu's not the best?")
[06:54] <Iorek> trey I don't know, nautilus vitches every file I want to ftp with it...so that's command line...
[06:54] <Iorek> er
[06:54] <|trey|> Iorek: I am coming from Debian, I figure things should be done via GUI only though, else afaict it should be considered a bug...
[06:54] <Iorek> "VITCHES?"
[06:54] <arle> Hello, Ubuntuses! ;-)
[06:54] <Iorek> what the hell was I trying to type there???
[06:54] <arle> I am looking for the modconf tool in order to load  my sound module..
[06:54] <yyc747> having before worked with gentoo and debian, I'm am worried about joining a third overzealous community
[06:55] <axe9> Quick question, what program do I use to burn CDs?
[06:55] <PerfDave> yyc747: I've been lurking here for a few days to ascertain that. #ubuntu certainly seems to be fairly polite, but also wanders offtopic a bit too much for my liking.
[06:55] <arle> axe9 k3b
[06:55] <|trey|> yyc747: yes, yes you will be stoned for saying Ubuntu's not the best... only because its just hard to find better  :/
[06:55] <Iorek> trey yep, but ftp is command line, which works fine, and actually, in general I do everything that nautilus does in a terminal :)
[06:55] <|trey|> Iorek: GNOME VFS supports FTP, and there is GFTP also...
[06:56] <yyc747> you can't blame people for wandering off topic...
[06:56] <axe9> GFTP is good
[06:56] <PerfDave> yyc747: Not really, but when it gets in the way of people having problems and those problems being solved, it gets annoying.
[06:56] <axe9> How do I run k3b? 
[06:56] <Iorek> I don't like Nautilus in general...could be much much much better....
[06:56] <goatboy> |trey|: opeteron:amd64::athlon:i686
[06:56] <Iorek> axe you don't :)
[06:56] <axe9> ...
[06:57] <yyc747> |trey|: well, if that's the case, I will be happy.  I like gentoo/portage... I think there should be a project that will allow portage to create deb packages, since portage is an awesome tool for compile-time configuration
[06:57] <|trey|> axe9: you install it... activate universe... note its unsupported.
[06:57] <Iorek> no, it's true :P
[06:57] <axe9> I need to burn some CDs for my sistem
[06:57] <axe9> universe is already activated
[06:57] <goatboy> |trey|: and any amd64 can run 64bit and 32bin apps side by side.
[06:57] <goatboy> s/bin/bit
[06:57] <Iorek> axe: in that case fire up synaptic, activate synaptic, and install it :)
[06:57] <yyc747> axe9: I've only ever used mkisofs and cdrecord, so it can be done just by command line
[06:57] <|trey|> yyc747: apt-get -b source pkg isn't far off imo... it works  :/
[06:58] <axe9> uh....
[06:58] <Iorek> GHAA
[06:58] <Iorek> activate universe
[06:58] <Iorek> my brain is mush
[06:58] <Iorek> don't listen to me
[06:58] <Iorek> I'm not on drugs, incidentally
[06:58] <yyc747> |trey|: can one specify the equivilant of use flags?
[06:58] <|trey|> yyc747: There is a Gentoo developer working for Ubuntu... so he knows how to optimize...
[06:58] <|trey|> yyc747: debian/rules
[06:58] <axe9> synaptic?
[06:58] <axe9> -_-
[06:59] <Iorek> synaptic
[06:59] <axe9> I really need to go to the library and get some books on linux so I can stop bothering you guys
[06:59] <Iorek> or apt-get
[06:59] <yyc747> axe9: I think I might write a very simple frontend to cdrecord/mkisofs with either gtk or ncurses
[06:59] <yyc747> axe9: it wouldn't be too hard, I wonder why it hasn't been done
[06:59] <tm> is there something wrong with the vim-common package?
[07:00] <|trey|> axe9: google is all the information you need  :/
[07:00] <|trey|> tm: its fine here...
[07:00] <yyc747> |trey|, axe9: I have the Linux Pocket Guide... it is quicker than google, and covers the basics of a wide range of linux commands
[07:01] <tm> When I try to install it, it spits out a whole bunch of errors and my system becomes completely unusable.  Every command gives me an "input/output error"
[07:01] <Iorek> kewl, gftp IS nice
[07:01] <axe9> That would prolly be good...
[07:01] <_Hiro_> I had xfs corruption and now muine nor tomboy works. I reinstalled every mono package but that doesn't help. Anybody any suggestions?
[07:01] <|trey|> axe9: ideally, support channels would be used only to clear up things, not to tell you how to do things..
[07:01] <Iorek> now all I need is gnome-commander, something like k3b and a deb for the fasttrack plugin of gidt :P
[07:01] <_Hiro_> can I reinstall every supposedly installed package in some fashion?
[07:01] <|trey|> yyc747: man -k something_you_want_to_do
[07:02] <Jeedee> Is it going to be worth it to re-install ubuntu when the final 4.10 arrive or most of the change will be updated by synaptic?
[07:02] <yyc747> |trey|: I have never heard of the -k option, and doing "man man" would make the universe implode
[07:02] <|trey|> _Hiro_: yes... select all packages, and mark them for reinstallation...
[07:02] <mjr> Jeedee, not worth the reinstall, synaptic should do everything
[07:02] <|trey|> yyc747: umm, no it wouldn't...
[07:02] <tm> oh wait.  it's not just vim-common
[07:02] <tm> it's dpkg:
[07:03] <|trey|> yyc747: man -k = man search for keywords
[07:03] <Jeedee> mjr: thank you :) I wasnt sure if I should wait until the 14 or simply install and update by synaptic
[07:03] <arle> any tool similar to Debian's modconf?
[07:03] <_Hiro_> oh I forgot about synaptic for that :D
[07:03] <_Hiro_> thx
[07:03] <_Hiro_> I was trying to do it with apt-get
[07:03] <tm> dpkg: error processing acpid_1.0.3-19ubuntu12_i386.deb (--install):
[07:03] <tm>  unable to create `./usr/share/doc/acpid/examples/ac.gz': Unknown error 990
[07:04] <yyc747> yeah, how hard is to upgrade from version to version?  will it just be a case of apt-get/synaptic, or will it be an option in the installer a la fedora, or will it require a complete reinstall?
[07:05] <Iorek> apt-get dist-upgrade
[07:05] <Kamion> tm: sounds like your filesystem and/or your disk are hosed; it's not anything to do with vim-common or dpkg in particular
[07:05] <|trey|> yyc747: you substitute "warty" for "hoary" and "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade"
[07:05] <tm> Kamion: yeah
[07:05] <tm> hmm
[07:05] <Iorek> someone has been creative with names at least
[07:06] <maswan> Kamion: thanks, I'll see if I get time to check that on ravel, hopefully noone will be using it for anything important when I get time.
[07:07] <yyc747> |trey|: I thought apt-get update only got the new package list.  what command actually installs the updates, and what file would I change hoary to warty in?
[07:07] <yyc747> oh, btw, what is the general policy here on comparing ubuntu to debian?
[07:07] <Iorek> sources.list
[07:07] <crimsun> yyc747: apt-get upgrade; /etc/apt/sources.list
[07:08] <Iorek> yyc747: ubuntu rocks debian's poppycocks
[07:08] <crimsun> ubuntu's target audience is more focused than debian's
[07:08] <Iorek> to paraphrase sinfest
[07:09] <FRLinux> greetings
[07:09] <Iorek> actually, no idea, never used Debian
[07:10] <FRLinux> ubuntu rocks :)
[07:10] <Livewire> hi, ive got my Network going in M$ .. now i need to get it going in Ubuntu.. I dont know what to put in the DNS field - there seems to be no auto mode
[07:10] <|trey|> yyc747: grr... apt-get update gets a new list, apt-get install installs individual packages, apt-get dist-upgrade upgrades everything, even through major changes...
[07:10] <Riddell> Livewire: is it using DHCP?
[07:11] <Livewire> Riddell: Yeah
[07:11] <Livewire> Riddell: the pc is straight into a router
[07:11] <Iorek> and it isn't online? :)
[07:11] <Riddell> Livewire: sudo apt-get install resolvconf  should fix it
[07:11] <arle> Hi, I have a Intel Corp. |82801DB AC'97 Audio controller
[07:11] <arle> module: i810
[07:11] <|trey|> Riddell: you're overlooking the usefulness of sudo -s
[07:11] <tom_cat> FRLinux:  yeah, Ubuntu rocks !
[07:11] <arle> But I doesn't get loaded at boot time
[07:12] <arle> lsmod shows me a lot of sound modules
[07:12] <crimsun> arle: so you'd use snd-intel8x0
[07:12] <axe9> ok
[07:12] <|trey|> arle: thats normal...
[07:12] <axe9> I downloaded the k3d stuff
[07:12] <arle> But I don't know hot to make my Ubunutu play wave or mp3 files
[07:12] <FRLinux> tom_cat, been a Debian user and admin for about 4 years now, it just cannot get any simpler :)
[07:12] <axe9> and installed
[07:12] <|trey|> axe9: umm, ok cool, its not supported
[07:12] <crimsun> arle: what sort of hardware is this? dell laptop by any chance?
[07:12] <axe9> ~_~
[07:12] <axe9> Why was I told to get it O_o
[07:13] <arle> crmsun: No. Desktop: HP/Compaq Evo
[07:13] <crimsun> arle: ok
[07:13] <|trey|> axe9: I answered your question of how to get it... Ubuntu servers ship it, but they don't support it.
[07:13] <crimsun> arle: |lsmod|grep intel8x0
[07:13] <punkass__> Livewire: you can usually use your routers ip too for dns
[07:13] <crimsun> arle: without the leading '|'
[07:13] <axe9> uhhuh...
[07:13] <arle> ok
[07:13] <arle> let me see
[07:13] <axe9> Well, that still leaves me in need of a CD burning applicaiton
[07:13] <Livewire> ah thanks punkass
[07:14] <arle> I can play a wave in XMMS but no sound from the speakers :(
[07:14] <crimsun> arle: did you unmute the mixer channels?
[07:14] <|trey|> axe9: gcombust or k3b do an ok job, although k3b drug along a lot of libs  :/
[07:14] <axe9> ...
[07:14] <arle> crimsum: Yeah, of course
[07:14] <axe9> You just told me k3d wasn't supported..............................
[07:15] <axe9> so
[07:15] <arle> I only get system beep sounds
[07:15] <axe9> I need to get gcmbust
[07:15] <mjr> axe9, try gtoaster; gcombust is old gtk1 stuff
[07:15] <arle> crimsum: lsmod|grep intel8x0 shows me 7 lines
[07:15] <arle> I don't wanna flow them here :-\
[07:15] <crimsun> arle: ok, good.
[07:15] <|trey|> or --audio some.mp3 another.mp3
[07:16] <Iorek> axe: it isn't, you can install it, but the chances that things will go wrong are bigger
[07:16] <Iorek> axe9: plus, k3b is a KDE application so you'll need those libs too
[07:16] <irc>  hey guys is there another source I need to add to get the fglrx-driver?
[07:16] <|trey|> Iorek: I just told him that
[07:16] <|trey|> irc: welcome to the /nick command
[07:16] <|trey|> use it
[07:17] <Iorek> trey yes, he didn't seem to understand :P
[07:17] <punkass__> i always run alsamixer  to make sure volumes are up and unmuted
[07:17] <arle> crimsum: and then.....?
[07:17] <g5maniac> is that better?
[07:17] <|trey|> g5maniac: :)
[07:17] <|trey|> g5maniac: yes, thank you  :)
[07:17] <g5maniac> well you know
[07:17] <g5maniac> :)
[07:17] <crimsun> arle: check the output of `dmesg' for any ALSA-related warnings/errors
[07:18] <axe9> gtoaster isn't on the list
[07:18] <arle> ok
[07:18] <|trey|> g5maniac: the driver should be within restricted, although I am not 100% sure... I think "apt-get install linux-restricted-modules-<uname -r>" or simular...
[07:19] <g5maniac>  ok, I will have a throw at that - cheers
[07:19] <arle> XMMS is using libOSS for output
[07:19] <|trey|> crimsun: resticted modules package name is....?
[07:19] <arle> dmesg | grep alsa
[07:19] <arle> nothing!
[07:19] <crimsun> |trey|: er?
[07:20] <|trey|> crimsun: eh.. nm
[07:20] <punkass__> arle: set xmms to use Alsa
[07:21] <punkass__> i believe u can run:  gstreamer-properties   to set that output to alsa too
[07:21] <|trey|> xmms is ugly, they should upgrade to gtk2 one day  :/
[07:21] <arle> punkass_: XMMS hangs down :(
[07:21] <axe9> oh
[07:21] <axe9> there it is
[07:21] <crimsun> |trey|: beep-media-player
[07:21] <arle> |trey|: Yeah!
[07:22] <socomm> crimsun, or rhythmbox
[07:22] <crimsun> |trey|: xmms is being rewritten to use gtk2 as well.
[07:22] <|trey|> crimsun: yes... but thats buggy too...
[07:22] <vrln> beep-media-player uses much more resources... I get 30% cpu usage by just scrolling the playlist
[07:22] <axe9> Ok, I used synaptic, and got gtoaster
[07:22] <|trey|> although the bad tag's in Ubuntu's packages are annoying...
[07:22] <axe9> To run, I...
[07:22] <crimsun> i tend to use players that support replaygain tags, so xmms/bmp/muine
[07:22] <|trey|> It was my favorate thing about Rhythmbox... it told me the title of songs in streams, not right now though  :(
[07:23] <vrln> 5% with xmms, and it looks the same if your using a skin
[07:23] <socomm> xmms does have an EQ, which I find very useful.
[07:23] <whatzzz-upppp> hello there
[07:23] <|trey|> socomm: I never use it... then I can turn up bass on my speakers already...
[07:23] <somebod1> hello people. I am ubuntu newbie, i have trouble with ubuntu installation, all installs fine, PC reboots, but Xserver crashes, failed to start. Sorry if i say something wrong, i don know english well
[07:23] <axe9> do I type gtoaster in the terminal?
[07:23] <defendguin> hmmmm i think ubuntu has a little problem with power management on laptops
[07:24] <whatzzz-upppp> uau so many people for such a young distro
[07:24] <socomm> |trey|, you can import winamps eq's to use with xmms
[07:24] <crimsun> somebod1: what video chipset do you have?
[07:24] <whatzzz-upppp> this distro , can become a killing distro
[07:25] <punkass__> defendguin: i agree
[07:25] <crimsun> whatzzz-upppp: s/young/one based on Debian that actually works/g
[07:25] <somebod1> ati radeon 32 sdr, monitor viewsonic P95F+
[07:25] <defendguin> i had my laptop idle for a while and it went into standby but now that i am back using it it keeps shutting down the harddrive
[07:25] <defendguin> and then running it back up again
[07:25] <crimsun> somebod1: so that's PCI?
[07:25] <socomm> http://super.malom.hu/qscvb/Winamp/WINAMP.q1
[07:25] <|trey|> somebod1: What does  /var/log/XFree86.0.log say was the error?
[07:25] <somebod1> x server want to start but monitor shows me message frequency over range
[07:25] <defendguin> not to mention the fact that it cant run on ac power anymore
[07:25] <whatzzz-upppp> crimsun: well it is not true that it just works
[07:25] <somebod1> agp
[07:25] <|trey|> socomm: I hate Winamp.
[07:26] <|trey|> I hate everything about its interface...
[07:26] <whatzzz-upppp> crimsun: i have problems with wvdial as it is not configured and being on dial up i can't do anything about it
[07:26] <defendguin> punkass__, hows it going?
[07:26] <punkass__> in windows i run winamp...in just a small mini mode
[07:26] <|trey|> Only tool simular I will use is Zinf, only because it has a good playlist manager...
[07:26] <punkass__> defendguin: pretty good
[07:26] <|trey|> I use ZINF on windows...
[07:27] <Treenaks> ZINF?
[07:27] <crimsun> all i need is a curses interface for rhythmbox, and i'll be set :)
[07:27] <|trey|> Zinf is not Freeamp
[07:27] <Treenaks> |trey|: argh
[07:27] <|trey|> Treenaks: ?
[07:27] <Treenaks> |trey|: X is not Y names..
[07:28] <punkass__> lol
[07:28] <socomm> I don't have windows.
[07:28] <|trey|> Treenaks: haha, but they weren't allowed to use Freeamp, Winamp (AOL) sued them  :(
[07:28] <whatzzz-upppp>  i saw that the current iso has wvdial and gaim. so I feel that the next release it will be great and it will really work. no more problems on us on dial up
[07:28] <defendguin> hmm the AC power thing maybe just be the fact that i no longer have power in this room apparently a circut breaker flipped
[07:28] <punkass__> defendguin: lol
[07:29] <jacob> The 1280x960 resolution doesnt appear when reconfiguring xserver-xfree86. It did show up during installation of the Ubuntu preview ISO, any solutions ?
[07:29] <whatzzz-upppp> jacob: change the XFconfig-4 or use Gnome display manager
[07:29] <|trey|> Treenaks: very simular to why Gnu is not Unix  :)
[07:29] <Treenaks> |trey|: still it sucks ;)
[07:30] <axe9> oh
[07:30] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: umm, thats not what you mean.
[07:30] <axe9> Why do I have to open the disks folder, and then click eject to open either of my CD drives?
[07:30] <defendguin> but the problem with the harddrive turning off and on is definatly a ubuntu problem
[07:31] <|trey|> jacob: change /etc/X11/default-display-manager to state "exec /usr/bin/gdm"
[07:31] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: yes u are right
[07:31] <defendguin> anyone know how to get a laptop out of standby mode?
[07:31] <|trey|> defendguin: I've heard of it on other distro's too, so I wouldn't be so sure...
[07:31] <Treenaks> defendguin: press the standby button again?
[07:32] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: have u installed a current ubuntu iso?
[07:32] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: yes...
[07:32] <defendguin> Treenaks, i never put it in standby manually to begin with
[07:32] <|trey|> I wouldn't be in #ubuntu if I didn't have Ubuntu installed  :/
[07:32] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: does the wvdial works out of box?
[07:33] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: diap-up works, yes...
[07:33] <|trey|> not that I have it...
[07:33] <|trey|> Dial up sucks  :(
[07:33] <|trey|> as does DSL even  :(
[07:33] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: great. can u post me a list of required files to download for wvdial in ubuntu. i am not in ubuntu so i don't know what other files to get apart of wvdial?
[07:34] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: umm, it will work out of the box  :/
[07:34] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: pppconfig
[07:34] <|trey|> or pppoeconf
[07:35] <|trey|> depending on how high I am
[07:35] <|trey|> ppp = dial up, pppoe = dsl
[07:36] <|trey|> Point to Point Protocol (Over Ethernet)
[07:36] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: well, i want to install wvdial, but no luck as it requires me a package after another. well i know ppp. :) can i get a connection in internet without wvdial in ubuntu?
[07:37] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: yes
[07:37] <whatzzz-upppp> with pppconfig?
[07:37] <Treenaks> defendguin: then press the power button once
[07:37] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: umm, actually... wvdial is installed by default...
[07:38] <whatzzz-upppp> no it is not at the default release
[07:38] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: its installed here, and I certainly didn't install it manually...
[07:39] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: am i blind? i am checking the ubuntu cd now!
[07:39] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: guess so
[07:39] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: put that cd in the drive...
[07:41] <|trey|> Did "somebod1" ever tell me the error from X's logs?
[07:42] <polo> hey fellows, great job on Ubuntu. I think it is the best distro I have ever used. 
[07:43] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: thanks God I am not blind
[07:43] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: there is no wvdial on the cd
[07:44] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: i can give you the package list, but that is not important as i want to install it on my computer
[07:44] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: bet you $450974386573767569547 there is.
[07:44] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: LOL
[07:44] <bborkk> Does anyone have information about getting sleep and/or suspend working on a T42p?  The Hardware Support page indicates there is no problem, but I can't get it to work.  I already upgraded the kernel to 2.6.8.1-13.  Any ideas?
[07:45] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: what about this don't you understand? I installed Ubuntu about 2 hours ago... can remember everything I have installed myself... wvdial is installed.
[07:46] <|trey|> I didn't install wvdial, I have no use for it.
[07:46] <|trey|> Only conclusion being it was installed when I installed Ubuntu.
[07:46] <Kamion> whatzzz-upppp: wvdial may not have been on your CD; it was a recent addition
[07:47] <Kamion> |trey|: lighten up, he's probably got the preview CD, which indeed did not have wvdial
[07:47] <axe9> Can I use CD ripped to convert mp3s to CDA?
[07:47] <whatzzz-upppp> Kamion: thanks man
[07:47] <|trey|> Kamion: I have the preview CD, burned the day Ubuntu was announced...
[07:47] <whatzzz-upppp> Kamion: u r right i have the preview cd. is there any other release?
[07:47] <|trey|> Kamion: granted I don't get the packages from the CD though...
[07:48] <Kamion> whatzzz-upppp: Sounder CD 9 was the last milestone release; search the ubuntu-users mailing list for the URL.
[07:48] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: during installer... select "download packages from internet" and say yes
[07:49] <swim> eh llo
[07:49] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: i don't want to make this wvdial a big thing man, but how can i donwload a package if i don't configure the modem and establish a connection ?
[07:50] <|trey|> Installer doesn't configure?
[07:50] <whatzzz-upppp> |trey|: it didn't in my computer
[07:50] <|trey|> That sucks  :/
[07:50] <Kamion> we turned that off
[07:51] <whatzzz-upppp> Kamion: is Sounder cd 9 more stable than the preview?
[07:51] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: presumably... has some bug fixes etc...
[07:51] <Kamion> whatzzz-upppp: should be at least as good
[07:52] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: Sounder = devel snapshot.
[07:52] <|trey|> The preview release was a snapshot also.
[07:52] <Kamion> (but a manually vetted development snapshot)
[07:52] <whatzzz-upppp> oh cool. No other distro has suprised me as much as ubuntu. Any ubuntu control center in the future or just gnome control center?
[07:53] <|trey|> Kamion: yes... the stuff devel's play with is just asking for trouble  ;)
[07:53] <|trey|> whatzzz-upppp: hopefully more tools for gnome-system-tools
[07:55] <Iorek> odd. xmms doesn't want to run
[07:55] <|trey|> Although thats newly merged in 2.8, been around for a while though... some ok tooks
[07:55] <|trey|> Iorek: XMMS sucks, use Rhythmbox
[07:55] <|trey|> s/tooks/tools
[07:55] <Iorek> yeah but rhythmbox botches half of my mp3's tags, and misjudges the other half's length
[07:56] <|trey|> (Red Hat/Fedora and SUSE are both defualting to HelixPlayer now)
[07:56] <Iorek> Suse uses Kafeine...that's Xine I believe
[07:57] <|trey|> Iorek: umm, 9.2 doesn't
[07:57] <|trey|> Not by default...
[07:57] <Iorek> 9.2 isn't out yet :P
[07:57] <Iorek> so it doesn't count :P
[07:57] <socomm> Red Hat ~= Fedora
[07:57] <|trey|> Iorek: might as well be...
[07:57] <socomm> :^/
[07:57] <sri> woo..it's comin together baby..yeeha
[07:58] <punkass__> defendguin: u got that newer icon?
[07:58] <|trey|> socomm: umm, hence not being seperated by an "and"...
[07:58] <Iorek> if xmms was anything like winamp 5 I'd use it :)
[07:58] <Iorek> playlist handling!
[07:59] <Iorek> :)
[07:59] <socomm> |trey|, could you give other examples. Other than RH/FC?
[07:59] <|trey|> If everyone works on the same things, it gets done faster  :)
[07:59] <Iorek> but all those apps have had problems with importing large playlists
[07:59] <|trey|> socomm: Novell and Red Hat signed a deal with Real to include HelixPlayer as the default Video player in their products.
[07:59] <socomm> Isn't winamp 5 sucky?
[07:59] <Iorek> nah
[08:00] <|trey|> socomm: no one cares about Winamp
[08:00] <Iorek> not in my experience
[08:00] <Iorek> I do :P
[08:00] <socomm> |trey|, Iorek does, apparenlty.
[08:00] <Iorek> yes, yes I do :)
[08:00] <|trey|> socomm: so take it to #winamplovers
[08:00] <socomm> |trey|, try to keep up. K thnx bye.
[08:00] <|trey|> Its OT...
[08:00] <Iorek> sorry, but in my not very humble opinion, no linux app even comes close
[08:01] <|trey|> Iorek: Zinf and Rhythmbox
[08:01] <|trey|> Both a lot better
[08:01] <Iorek> nah, just tried Zinf, it imported the tags of the first 500 mp3s, and then all the other 2500 were blank
[08:01] <Iorek> not very useful
[08:01] <|trey|> Winamp 5 = AOL trying to imitate Zinf.
[08:02] <Iorek> at least it imported the files right ;)
[08:02] <anders> the grub background at http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/UbuntuArtwork doesn't work
[08:02] <|trey|> Iorek: Rhythmbox is designed for that kinda volume of audio files...
[08:03] <Iorek> trey it crashed like 20 times before all the files were imported :)
[08:03] <anders> to many colors, grub displays max 14 colors I think
[08:03] <Iorek> anders ummm...it's an image. How can it not work?
[08:03] <|trey|> Rhythmbox's View >> Small Display is nice.
[08:05] <socomm> Yikes, zinf is the uglies piece of crap I've seen so far.
[08:05] <anders> it's a 24 bit rgb xpm.gz, grub need 14 color indexed xpm.gz
[08:05] <socomm> Iorek, maybe GNOME doesn't support that file format.
[08:05] <swim> how do I log out of x ? staying in console only? init 2 isnt it?
[08:06] <Iorek> :)
[08:06] <|trey|> swim: no... 
[08:06] <|trey|> swim: /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[08:06] <Iorek> don't know WHAT I did, but suddenly Zinf works...
[08:07] <|trey|> swim: on Debian, 2-5 are the same...
[08:08] <|trey|> Rhythmbox > Zinf > Winamp > XMMS
[08:08] <Livewire> Ok got my Ubuntu online... Did a "Smart Update" and downloaded loads of updates... but i think its just changed core software.. where can i get XMMS?
[08:08] <Iorek> Winamp > iTunes > juk > Rhythmbox ;)
[08:08] <|trey|> Rhythmbox ~= iTunes (and -will- have support for iTunes)
[08:09] <|trey|> Iorek: Juk doesn't even support pls. Useless
[08:09] <Livewire> does Rhythmbox have FLAC support built in?
[08:09] <|trey|> yes
[08:09] <|trey|> via gstreamer
[08:09] <enki> hey i really hate to be a drag...but is there any talk of having, in a future release, a meta-package that installs all of the developer tools?
[08:09] <Kamion> build-essential?
[08:09] <|trey|> enki: apt-get install build-essentials
[08:10] <enki> well ok thats neat
[08:10] <enki> but something from the synaptic package manager
[08:10] <defendguin> :((
[08:10] <|trey|> enki: yes... yes it is...
[08:10] <enki> or is it in there?
[08:10] <Kamion> it is
[08:10] <|trey|> enki: its there
[08:10] <enki> well...far frickin out!
[08:10] <Kamion> just installs gcc, libc6-dev, package development tools
[08:10] <vrln> Livewire: sudo apt-get install xmms
[08:10] <defendguin> sometimes when i try to boot it just hangs during boot :(
[08:10] <Kamion> not all *-dev packages because that would be nuts. :)
[08:10] <|trey|> enki: auto-apt is usefull also  (auto-apt search libsomething.so is a useful usage for instance)
[08:11] <|trey|> vrln: XMMS should not be recommended.
[08:11] <enki> guess i shouldntve avoided debian all these years, heh
[08:12] <enki> always more of a slackware/gentoo type myself
[08:12] <|trey|> enki: Debian user of 3 years  :)
[08:12] <|trey|> enki: both = you have too much time on your hands...
[08:12] <enki> yes. far too much...
[08:13] <|trey|> enki: look for more constuctive ways to use it now... like actually learning to use software...
[08:13] <|trey|> Pointless spending it all configuring and installing... you learn nothing from that...
[08:13] <enki> hmm. perhaps.
[08:13] <socomm> enki, debians is all right.
[08:13] <enki> of course, i see my time learning some manners was well spent, though.
[08:14] <|trey|> Typing emerge somepkg doesn't make you smart... it just means you are a gluton for punishment...
[08:14] <enki> well, thank you for your sermon trey
[08:14] <|trey|> enki: debconf is your new bestest friend  :)
[08:14] <enki> im sorry i havent read all the manuals, i apologize.
[08:14] <enki> for offending you.
[08:14] <enki> im sorry, for asking questions when i dont have all the answers
[08:15] <|trey|> enki: I am not attacking you, don't take it as such.
[08:15] <vrln> |trey|: I don't see anything wrong with xmms, it's light, works well and looks good :/ I've tried almost all *nix media players xmms is still my favourite by far
[08:15] <vrln> and besides, I wasn't recommending it, he asked where he could get it
[08:15] <|trey|> vrln: looks good is an opinion, not a fact
[08:15] <Iorek> I CLOSED zinf and it's still playing :P
[08:16] <enki> just a stern talkingt-to?
[08:16] <|trey|> To me, it looks amature
[08:17] <|trey|> Skinned interfaces take away from desktop cohesiveness
[08:17] <vrln> it's a question of opinion of course, it's good that there are many different players so there's a choice
[08:17] <|trey|> +rhythmbox uses gstreamer... which is rather nice  :)
[08:18] <socomm> enki, don't mind |trey| s/he is on some holier than thou trip.
[08:18] <stianh> is it possible to contribute packages, and if so how? is there a faq on this?
[08:18] <enki> hmm. well, fair nuff.
[08:18] <|trey|> stianh: you have to be a maintainer to contribute packages.
[08:18] <stianh> ok
[08:19] <|trey|> socomm: hah... no... just recommending the better technology.
[08:19] <socomm> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/participate
[08:19] <mir> What is the best way to install realplayer in Ubuntu ?
[08:19] <Kamion> try not to slag off the competition too much, though; it just pisses people off, and we can learn things from them
[08:19] <|trey|> stianh: the site gives you information about how to take part....
[08:20] <socomm> Mir, http://www.real.com/player/?src=realplayer
[08:20] <|trey|> socomm: they don't offer a .dev
[08:20] <|trey|> deb
[08:20] <socomm> Download reaplyer and runthe script.
[08:21] <|trey|> not recommended to go that route
[08:21] <socomm> s/reaplyer/realplayer
[08:21] <|trey|> mir: google for "helixplayer .deb"
[08:21] <|trey|> or "realplayer .deb", has more codecs of course...
[08:22] <|trey|> Harder to manage if you don't use a .deb
[08:22] <stianh> |trey| found info now, just needed to look a little harder :)
[08:23] <|trey|> stianh: :)
[08:23] <|trey|> Plus a .deb will be modified to fit the Debian FS stucture...
[08:24] <tom_cat> hello, how to add new fonts in Ubuntu ?
[08:24] <|trey|> tom_cat: put them in /usr/share/fonts
[08:26] <tom_cat> |trey|: and then ? what to do next ?
[08:26] <|trey|> tom_cat: should just work  :/
[08:27] <tom_cat> |trey|:  really ? thanks !
[08:28] <rm> Ubuntu - Another distro name in my language( first one was impi linux) but not in my language
[08:28] <|trey|> tom_cat: the joys of defoma (DEbian FOnt MAnager)
[08:30] <swim> hi, Im trying to install nvidia x86_64 driver (from nvidia.com) it needs to compile it, and when it tries, it says it wasnt able to find the kernel source tree... help?
[08:31] <|trey|> swim: apt-get install linux-headers-<uname -r>
[08:31] <swim> ok thank you |trey| 
[08:32] <siretart> hi. does the ubuntu installer support installaing on crypted filesystems?
[08:33] <nasdaq4088> zulu linux
[08:33] <swim> hmm |trey|  it returned: couldnt find package linux-headers-2.6.8.1-2-amd64-generic
[08:34] <Kamion> siretart: sorry, not yet
[08:34] <Kamion> siretart: it's apparently a goal in Debian for partman, may happen eventually
[08:34] <MGS> wheeee burning ubuntu to a disc
[08:34] <Treenaks> Kamion: that'd be cool on my new VIA chip :) it has on-die AES
[08:35] <Astinus> Anyone tell me about Ubuntu and Reiser v4 support please?  Currently implemented, planned or what?
[08:35] <|trey|> swim: I'm not on amd64... synaptic tells you the packages though... Development
[08:35] <Kamion> Astinus: not in our kernels yet
[08:35] <socomm> Astinus, implemented as far as I know.
[08:35] <Treenaks> socomm: that's reiser3
[08:35] <Astinus> Two people with different answers! HELP!
[08:35] <socomm> Stand corrected.
[08:35] <|trey|> Astinus: implemented support, have fun with it...
[08:35] <WW_> Is it normal for there to be symlinks in / to the files initrd.img, initrd.img.old, vmlinuz and vmlinuz.old in /boot?
[08:36] <Astinus> Okay, so there's support and we just need the correct tools through apt?
[08:36] <socomm> Astinus, kamion is correct.
[08:36] <Astinus> What about trey?
[08:36] <Kamion> |trey|: reiserfs is, reiser4 isn't.
[08:36] <EY> hello
[08:36] <Astinus> Ahhhhh
[08:36] <siretart> Kamion: i'm considering ubuntu as main os for my laptop, but definitly want to install on a crypto os. i think this could be an important feature to many laptop users. is this already discussed or even an release goal for hoary?
[08:36] <|trey|> Kamion: I thought 2.6.8 has reiser4?
[08:36] <EY> i am trying to install ubuntu on my amd64 with sata
[08:36] <Astinus> Kamion: Any ideas on a date when we might get reiserv4 support in the kernel?
[08:36] <Treenaks> siretart: you can do it "afterwards"
[08:37] <EY> it correctly loads the sata_nv driver, but does not give me any partition to configure
[08:37] <Kamion> siretart: don't think it's been discussed particularly, probably has to happen in Debian TBH
[08:37] <socomm> Astinus, you can always compile your kernel.
[08:37] <EY> any ideas?
[08:37] <Kamion> |trey|: well, I don't see a reiser4 module
[08:37] <MGS> w00t, loading up linux now
[08:37] <Treenaks> siretart: it should be quite easy to do actually, if you know the debian installer internals
[08:38] <Kamion> Astinus: not really my field, don't know for sure
[08:38] <|trey|> MGS: we don't need running commentary, we've seen it before  :)
[08:38] <MGS> hehe sorry
[08:38] <EY> hello
[08:38] <socomm> Hehe 'w00t'
[08:38] <MGS> im just excited
[08:38] <Kamion> it'd be relatively trivial to add to partman once it's in the kernel
[08:38] <EY> anyone seen my problem?
[08:38] <vrln> |trey|: thanks for mentioning zinf btw, I had never heard of it... looks promising, compiling it right now
[08:38] <Astinus> Kamion: Not many distributions have support, just wondered when the elite ubuntu might add it ;)
[08:38] <MGS> cuz this is my first real linux install
[08:38] <|trey|> vrln: :)
[08:38] <Astinus> Kamion: Never hurts to beat the rush.
[08:38] <siretart> Treenaks: how would you do that?
[08:38] <Treenaks> siretart: uh
[08:38] <Kamion> Astinus: with a six-monthly release cycle it's relatively easy to beat a lot of rushes. :)
[08:39] <Treenaks> siretart: which tools to you need to set up a dmcrypt device?
[08:39] <|trey|> Kamion: wassa?
[08:39] <MGS> its installing, but it stopped. is that normal?
[08:39] <Astinus> Oooh, other question:  any idea if Ubuntu will ever get SKAS3 included to the default kernel?
[08:39] <EY> anyone knows how to install ubuntu on an amd64 with a sata drive?
[08:40] <siretart> Treenaks: well, actually i have not been looking at cryptotools yet, but hoped ubuntu would do that for me ;)
[08:40] <|trey|> MGS: define "stopped"... it it "stops" for too long, thats bad  ;)
[08:40] <Treenaks> siretart: it is possible.. using the devicemanager setup tools and an alternative console (I think...)
[08:40] <MGS> well
[08:40] <MGS> its been sitting there
[08:40] <MGS> for a while
[08:40] <Kamion> |trey|: used in cheap Texas Instruments network cards and others; requires firmware
[08:40] <MGS> like
[08:40] <Treenaks> siretart: you shuold at least use a separate partition
[08:40] <MGS> it says ACPI: Subsystem revision 20040326
[08:40] <goatboy> EY: it just worked for me.
[08:40] <MGS> and under that
[08:40] <MGS> a blinking cursor
[08:40] <MGS> and its not movie
[08:40] <MGS> (moving
[08:40] <MGS> woops
[08:40] <EY> goatboy, what cipset have you got sata?
[08:40] <goatboy> via
[08:40] <|trey|> MGS: arg... acpi=off
[08:41] <EY> ah, ok, i've got an nvidia s3
[08:41] <Kamion> EY: should just work, if it doesn't please send me 'lspci' and 'lspci -n' output from a working system (if you don't have a working system, send 'cut -f1,2 /proc/bus/pci/devices' from the installer)
[08:41] <Treenaks> siretart: basically, it's possible but Hard
[08:41] <socomm> MGS, how old are you?
[08:41] <siretart> Treenaks: well, for crypto root you would need a prepared initrd, which could display a nice ubuntu branded password prompt and so ;)
[08:41] <Kamion> EY: make sure you're using a current daily, not the preview
[08:41] <WW_> Anybody know... ?  (see my q above)
[08:41] <MGS> socomm 14
[08:41] <MGS> damn invision
[08:41] <socomm> MGS, all right.
[08:41] <Kamion> EY: ah, just scrolled up to find it correctly detected sata_nv, so ignore me
[08:41] <MGS> im also new to this
[08:41] <Treenaks> siretart: oh, you can't have your initrd on crypto of course 
[08:41] <Treenaks> siretart: :)
[08:41] <MGS> but i dont know what to do from here
[08:42] <|trey|> MGS: wow, thats young... you have permission to be installing OS's?
[08:42] <EY> arrrgh, my cd burner is toast, i can't burn a new copy :-(
[08:42] <Kamion> MGS: if you could turn off colour that'd be good, thanks. :)
[08:42] <MGS> its my comp
[08:42] <MGS> i dont know how
[08:42] <|trey|> ok... just making sure   :)
[08:42] <MGS> its invision
[08:42] <MGS> im still on a windows box
[08:42] <siretart> Tresnar: i didn't speek of /boot, just / ;)
[08:42] <socomm> Kamion, what irc client are you using?
[08:42] <Kamion> socomm: irssi
[08:42] <Astinus> siretart: How much overhead are you talking to encrypt the whole filesystem with 128bit AES?
[08:42] <socomm> All right.
[08:42] <siretart> s/Tresnar/Treenaks/
[08:42] <swim> |trey|, what package did you say I needed again to be able to compile the nvidia driver?
[08:42] <EY> Kamion, mine does too, but it does not give me any partition to configure, it just ask me to configure raid and LVM
[08:43] <MGS> did anyone else here have their install freeze on them?
[08:43] <Treenaks> Astinus: cryptsetup is available.. and it LOOKS like you can setup crypto on already-filled partitions
[08:43] <Kamion> EY: which image, preview or more recent?
[08:43] <Astinus> MGS:  No. You using a release or a daily snapshot?
[08:43] <socomm> swim, you just need the kernel source.
[08:43] <siretart> Astinus: as said, i didnt measure that yet. have you?
[08:43] <MGS> ummm release i think
[08:43] <goatboy> swim: kernel-headers-`uname -r`
[08:43] <Astinus> Siretart: I've had a seperate (non-root) filesystem running before now, adds about a 40% overhead
[08:43] <MGS> its this
[08:43] <MGS> warty-i386.iso
[08:43] <merriam> MGS: flash the bios?
[08:43] <|trey|> Kamion: irssi is nice... but gnome-terminal + irssi takes up more mem then xchat, and switching from VT1-6 and X results in wierd colors at top of screen...
[08:43] <EY> preview
[08:44] <Kamion> MGS: that's not enough to distinguish I'm afraid
[08:44] <EY> Kamion, preview
[08:44] <MGS> oh
[08:44] <Astinus> MGS: Where'd you download it from?
[08:44] <MGS> where can i get a full release then?
[08:44] <siretart> Astinus: have you also tried faster algorithms like Serpent?
[08:44] <Astinus> siretart: Not yet :P
[08:44] <MGS> lemme get the website
[08:44] <|trey|> merriam: he's a 14 yo without too much knowledge it would seem... don't tell him that!!
[08:44] <anders> silly me had misspelled in menu.lst , grub background working now :)
[08:44] <MGS> lol
[08:44] <Astinus> siretart: Want to encrypt a secondary 60GB disk with 256bit or higher, preferably with an overhead around 15%
[08:44] <|trey|> merriam: afaict, he hasn't even rebooted, thats how knowledgable he is   :/
[08:44] <EY> any idea?
[08:44] <Treenaks> siretart: you should try AES with hardware-accelerated crypto on a VIA C3 CPU :)
[08:45] <Treenaks> siretart: THAT is cool :)
[08:45] <Astinus> Treenaks: Chipset?
[08:45] <MGS> hmm i dont seem to have the website
[08:45] <MGS> :(
[08:45] <Kamion> |trey|: dude, one of the current Debian webmasters joined Debian when he was 14 and was one of our most productive developers for a long time; age often isn't that relevant
[08:45] <Treenaks> Astinus: no, it's on the new C3 CPUs (PadLock, on most 1.2GHz chips)
[08:45] <Astinus> Cool
[08:45] <Treenaks> Astinus: so EPIA MS-12000 etc.
[08:45] <Kamion> EY: if you manage to get a new CD and can still reproduce it with that, a bug report would be good
[08:46] <Astinus> I'm stuck with software crypto for now :P
[08:46] <|trey|> Kamion: there are brilliant youth... I am not much older myself... just taking into account his comments  ;)
[08:46] <Treenaks> Astinus: don't know how to set it up, sorry
[08:46] <EY> no cd :-(
[08:46] <swim> socomm, goatboy are you saying that kernel-headers is the same as the kernel source?
[08:46] <MGS> can someone here give me a website to get a new iso file for ubuntu?
[08:46] <Kamion> EY: even if not, a bug report might be of use anyway
[08:46] <Astinus> MGS:  There's a wonderful tool called Google. Many a student has finished their project faster using this.
[08:46] <EY> ok, i'll try it
[08:46] <Kamion> |trey|: you're still being harsh - everyone has to start somewhere.
[08:46] <EY> normally should the silicon image xx be enabled in the bios?
[08:46] <hazmat> Astinus, same applies to crypto loopback fs
[08:46] <goatboy> swim: no, but you don't need the full kernel source to build drivers.
[08:46] <goatboy> swim: just the headers.
[08:47] <|trey|> Kamion: my appologies... wasn't meant to be mean... didn't state his name so its less likely he saw  :/
[08:47] <|trey|> Kamion: advising direction for help rather then being mean  :/
[08:47] <swim> ok thx
[08:47] <hazmat> goatboy, depensd on the driver.
[08:47] <Astinus> Trey: Promise me you guys (and gals) will never get as bitter, twisted and cynical as #Debian
[08:47] <siretart> Treenaks: nice idea, but i think for the time being my thinkpad has to suffice ;)
[08:47] <goatboy> hazmat: he's building the nvidia driver.
[08:47] <MGS> i asked here rather then search google astinius, because i figure people here could probably give me better answers
[08:48] <Kamion> Astinus: we (the developers) are trying to keep this channel reasonably moderated; it's a full-time job on its own sometimes :)
[08:48] <Astinus> Well if you put Ubuntu into Google, it usually shows the Ubuntu homepage
[08:48] <|trey|> Astinus: ahh, see #debian might have rubbed off on me... but yeah, I kinda hope the same thing  :)
[08:48] <Astinus> Which is, suprisingly enough, an amazing place to get the ISO for Ubuntu!
[08:48] <Astinus> Kamion: Well if you ever need help, I'm sure you could ask ;)
[08:48] <MGS> crap
[08:48] <MGS> this is where i got it from
[08:48] <MGS> ubuntolinux.org
[08:48] <MGS> and thats the homepage
[08:49] <MGS> yet it doesnt work
[08:49] <Astinus> I started out first using Debian 2.0 a long time ago, when it wasn't so bloody bitter.
[08:49] <swim> ok it seems that the kernel-headers are already installed, (I dont know if they are the right ones or not...) but synaptic shows that: linux-kernel-headers are installed, but when I try to compile the nvidia driver using the nvidia.com x86_64 driver installer it says that the it cant find the kernel source tree... ??
[08:49] <Astinus> MGS: It does work, I just grabbed today's daily build from a link found on the homepage.
[08:49] <spiv> MGS: You mean ubunt*u*linux.org?
[08:49] <|trey|> MGS: no, ubuntulinux.org
[08:49] <MGS> sorry
[08:49] <MGS> i mispelled
[08:49] <MGS> i got the file from this site
[08:49] <MGS> http://ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/ubuntu-cdimage/releases/warty/preview/
[08:49] <goatboy> swim: you want linux-headers-`uname -r`, not linux-kernel-headers.
[08:49] <MGS> but
[08:49] <MGS> theres several releases
[08:50] <MGS> which one should i get?
[08:50] <|trey|> MGS: just for shits and gigles, have you rebooted on to the CD yet? It won't autorun.
[08:50] <Astinus> Hmm, do you understand the terms RTFM and RTFW?
[08:50] <|trey|> Astinus: stfu
[08:50] <MGS> it does autorun
[08:50] <goatboy> swim: apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r`
[08:50] <Astinus> lmao
[08:50] <|trey|> MGS: reboot
[08:50] <Astinus> lmao
[08:50] <Astinus> autorun :P
[08:50] <MGS> i already have
[08:50] <Astinus> and?
[08:50] <MGS> didnt work
[08:50] <Astinus> What error message?
[08:51] <MGS> none
[08:51] <MGS> but
[08:51] <|trey|> MGS: BIOS needs to be set to boot from CD.
[08:51] <MGS> it wont go
[08:51] <swim> goatboy synaptic doesnt seem to have that
[08:51] <spiv> MGS: That site only has the initial public preview release... you're probably better off with the current daily snapshot.
[08:51] <MGS> it does trey
[08:51] <Astinus> BIOS needs to be set to boot from CD, and you need to burn the CD correctly :P
[08:51] <|trey|> MGS: what did you see on screen when it "stopped"?
[08:51] <MGS> it stopped right after
[08:52] <|trey|> MGS: also, just for kicks... tell me if you more then one file on the CD
[08:52] <MGS> ACPI: Subsystem revision 20040326
[08:52] <MGS> trey im not stupid
[08:52] <MGS> no i didnt
[08:52] <|trey|> MGS: did you try again after turning off acpi?
[08:52] <Astinus> MGS: Ever used Linux before?
[08:52] <goatboy> swim: `uname -r` expands to the kernel version you're running.
[08:52] <spiv> |trey|, Astinus: Give MGS a little more credit.  Sheesh.
[08:52] <MGS> no astinux
[08:52] <MGS> err yeah
[08:52] <MGS> astinus
[08:52] <Astinus> In which case I strongly advise against anything Debian based :P Its just not newbie friendly
[08:52] <|trey|> spiv: I told him what he needs to do about 10 mins ago... still hasn't done it...
[08:53] <MGS> i dont know how to turn off acpi
[08:53] <swim> goatboy right but searching for linux-headers in synaptic returned nothing...
[08:53] <MGS> i dont even know what that is
[08:53] <Astinus> MGS:   Ubuntu is a debian derivative.
[08:53] <Astinus> Debian = very not newbie friendly.
[08:53] <|trey|> Astinus: stfu, thats the point of Ubuntu... bring Debian to the mass market.
[08:53] <Astinus> lol
[08:53] <Astinus> In which case Ubuntu needs a more "Knoppix" like hardware detection system
[08:54] <Astinus> It hates my graphics card for a start!
[08:54] <|trey|> Debian is pleanty friendly... except you have to think logically.
[08:54] <MGS> oh
[08:54] <Astinus> Trey: true.
[08:54] <Astinus> Trey: Although if you want prissy graphics (aka: Windows) and easy install, you need Mandrake/Fedora/SuSE
[08:54] <|trey|> Debian is userfriendly, its just picky about who its friends are  :)
[08:54] <goatboy> swim: what do you have in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[08:55] <|trey|> Astinus: blah... Mandrakes installer is the worst installer I have ever seen.
[08:55] <|trey|> Astinus: Its moronic.
[08:55] <Astinus> Fedora works well on most systems, including laptops to its credit.
[08:55] <Astinus> However, it is made by the great satan.
[08:55] <Kamion> MGS: try typing 'linux acpi=off' at the boot prompt
[08:55] <j^> is there a usb-media installer for umbuntu?
[08:55] <|trey|> Astinus: blah... Red Hat is hardly a satan
[08:55] <MGS> ok
[08:56] <spiv> MGS: you need to pass some kernel parameters at the boot prompt. -- like Kamion just said :)
[08:56] <|trey|> Kamion: I told him to do that about 25 mins ago now, he doesn't listen  :(
[08:56] <Kamion> j^: not yet I'm afraid, I was hoping to do one before warty but am rapidly running out of time
[08:56] <Astinus> Naw, I suppose Microsoft is the "great satanic being", but Red Hat is just gates' corporate demonic poodle
[08:56] <swim> goatboy, I just installed ubuntu btw... but it seems that file has nothing uncommented... all the sources are comented
[08:56] <housetier> #oswar
[08:57] <Kamion> |trey|: need to be very clear for people who aren't familiar with the system; you just said "acpi=off" and I can understand people not knowing what to do with that
[08:57] <|trey|> housetier: thankyou  :)
[08:57] <Astinus> Anyway, I'm out for like 30 minutes - talk to you all later.
[08:57] <MGS> Kamion, thank you. now the installer work
[08:57] <Kamion> MGS: cool
[08:57] <j^> Kamion what about a floppy?
[08:57] <goatboy> swim: odd. put this in /etc/apt/sources.list:
[08:57] <|trey|> Kamion: yes, my mistake again... but he hasn't even gone to try it yet either way  :/
[08:57] <goatboy> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty main restricted 
[08:57] <Kamion> |trey|: he just has. wasn't that much easier than abusing people?
[08:57] <Kamion> j^: nor that
[08:57] <mir> Anyone knows how to uninstall Realplayer 10 ?.
[08:57] <|trey|> Kamion: Who'd I abuse?
[08:57] <Kamion> j^: CD or netboot only, I'm afraid
[08:58] <goatboy> swim: then click reload in synaptic.
[08:59] <EY> that did not work
[08:59] <EY> is there a way to install ubuntu from floppy?
[08:59] <j^> Kamion how would netboot work?
[08:59] <Kamion> |trey|: I'll leave that for the peanut gallery. :-)
[08:59] <|trey|> mir: install it via .deb?
[08:59] <j^> i have an x40 but only external cd drives that would not boot.
[08:59] <housetier> EY you do have a cdrom drive?
[08:59] <EY> yes
[08:59] <Kamion> j^: e.g. PXE boot
[09:00] <j^> Kamion  its there some warty howto
[09:00] <EY> housetier, yes
[09:00] <housetier> EY, there is smart boot manager, search for that, put it on the floppy, put the iso on the cd and boot
[09:00] <mir> |trey|: I Installed the bin file
[09:00] <Kamion> j^: there will be once I get time out from fixing bugs to finish porting the sarge documentation :)
[09:00] <housetier> EY then have it boot the CD
[09:00] <mir> |trey|: Of version 10
[09:00] <EY> that's the thing i don't have a cd burner right now :-(
[09:00] <|trey|> mir: Did I say not to do that?
[09:01] <EY> I was thinking of extracting the iso to a partition and then boot from floppy instal from there
[09:01] <j^> Kamion ok than i have to google for the sarge docu
[09:01] <mir> |trey|: Hmm.. not what I read..
[09:01] <|trey|> mir: oh well, I don't know how to remove a .bin installer, sorry.
[09:01] <mir> |trey|: But I don't want it.. so anyone knows how to remove it? :-)
[09:01] <housetier> EY, I see your problem now... do you have friends with a burner?
[09:01] <EY> yes, but not at 8pm :-)
[09:01] <swim> goatboy ok, it seems that there are only headers for 2.6.8.1-3 amd64,  my uname -r reveals 2.6.8.1-2 amd 64, should I then upgrade to 2.6.8.1-3 ?
[09:02] <goatboy> swim: yes, upgrade.
[09:02] <swim> goatboy, in synaptic how do I do that? 
[09:02] <goatboy> swim: search for linux-image
[09:02] <j^> Kamion can i boot an from an iso image on another pc?
[09:02] <|trey|> swim: mark all upgrades  then apply
[09:02] <EY> short of opening the casing, connect the hard disk to the ide instead of the sata, is there a way of disabling sata so that ubuntu will at least install?
[09:04] <Kamion> j^: doesn't quite work that way; you put a kernel and an initrd somewhere that a TFTP server can see them and boot from those ... it's not particularly for the faint of heart
[09:04] <swim> |trey|,  that doesnt seem to select the linux image for upgrade
[09:04] <|trey|> eh, actually, most people don't have linux-headers-2.6-$ARCH installed  :(
[09:05] <j^> Kamion but using the initrd +kernel from warty-i386.iso it might work?
[09:05] <|trey|> swim: apt-get install linux-image-2.6-amd64 (I think) for it to upgrade when new versions of 2.6 are installed...
[09:05] <merriam> j^: you can boot from a floppy, then chroot into a remote cd image
[09:06] <j^> marriam, the X40 does not have a floppy drive.
[09:06] <merriam> ah
[09:06] <|trey|> when new versions of 2.6 are uploaded*
[09:06] <Telep> mm, pizza
[09:08] <Kamion> j^: the netboot images are in /install/netboot/ on the CD
[09:10] <MGS> kamion should it have stopped after it said it was booting kernel?
[09:10] <Kamion> MGS: no ...
[09:10] <MGS> darn it
[09:10] <Kamion> (I have to go now, sorry)
[09:10] <MGS> hmm i dont like this
[09:10] <MGS> heh
[09:11] <ions|ubuntu> anyone here have Java working with Firefox?
[09:17] <WW_> Sorry for asking the same old boring question, but: Is it normal for there to be symlinks in / to the files initrd.img, initrd.img.old, vmlinuz and vmlinuz.old in /boot?
[09:18] <swim> anyone installed the latest nvidia driver on amd64 ubuntu?
[09:18] <goatboy> I have.
[09:18] <swim> really! so it can be done! goatboy you did it succesfully?
[09:19] <goatboy> yep.
[09:19] <swim> goatboy what kernel version?
[09:20] <ions|ubuntu> housetier: you have Java working with Firefox?
[09:20] <goatboy> swim: 2.6.8.1-3-amd64-k8
[09:20] <housetier> ions|ubuntu, I have, but I am not using ubuntu atm
[09:20] <swim> ah... goatboy did you select that kernel version? mine is amd64 generic, I wonder if I should be using k8?
[09:20] <ions|ubuntu> when I try and play a Yahoo! game Firefox crashes immediately
[09:21] <housetier> I prefer my carefully crafted setup of debian experimental
[09:22] <njs12345> ions|ubuntu, try running it from a terminal and see if it outputs any error message
[09:22] <|trey|> ions|ubuntu: known problem, sorry  :(
[09:22] <ions|ubuntu> wth, it just worked
[09:22] <|trey|> ions|ubuntu: you can try Mozilla the full browser...
[09:22] <njs12345> hm
[09:22] <goatboy> swim: yea, I did. you can use it if you're running an athlon64 or opteron.
[09:23] <njs12345> I originally joined this channel because i have a friend wanting to start using linux
[09:23] <|trey|> ions|ubuntu: (its known to still work via Mozilla 1.7)
[09:23] <swim> oh ok Ill do that too than goatboy thanks
[09:23] <njs12345> I recommended ubuntu because it looked cool and fairly easy to use and install
[09:23] <njs12345> and debian rules as well
[09:23] <njs12345> but he's got SATA and RAID :-/
[09:24] <njs12345> is that going to be a large problem for him installing?
[09:24] <|trey|> njs12345: perhaps, I've seen it be...
[09:24] <njs12345> I think he has an nForce board
[09:24] <|trey|> D-I supports both afaik though...
[09:25] <njs12345> also
[09:25] <njs12345> one question
[09:25] <njs12345> I really like the look of Ubuntu
[09:25] <njs12345> but I use gentoo
[09:25] <ions|ubuntu> it worked once but now it keeps segfaulting!
[09:25] <njs12345> could someone bz2 up the Human theme and put it up on the net or something?
[09:26] <goatboy> njs12345: you can extract the deb directly on gentoo.
[09:26] <njs12345> and where might I get the deb?
[09:26] <|trey|> ions|ubuntu: yes, I filed the bug myself...
[09:28] <goatboy> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubuntu-artwork/
[09:28] <njs12345> thanks a lot :)
[09:30] <ions|ubuntu> it seems to work 1 in 6 tries
[09:30] <ions|ubuntu> |trey|: what is the status on the bug?
[09:32] <ions|ubuntu> or can you link me to the bug filing so I can track it please?
[09:32] <swim> goatboy, so did you use the nvidia x86_64 driver installer from nvidia.com ?
[09:33] <goatboy> swim: yes.
[09:33] <swim> goatboy, and it compiled fine?
[09:33] <goatboy> swim: you need a script to install in on ubuntu, though.
[09:33] <goatboy> swim: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1958
[09:34] <njs12345> yay, now my Gentoo looks like Ubuntu
[09:34] <njs12345> :)
[09:34] <swim> bizarre
[09:35] <njs12345> another question about my friend
[09:36] <njs12345> does the Debian installer have a GUI setup for ADSL?
[09:36] <njs12345> or a curses-based one
[09:36] <njs12345> as far as I can tell, he's got a fairly generic PPPoE modem
[09:37] <|trey|> njs12345: pppoeconf
[09:37] <njs12345> I mean like, in the setup
[09:37] <swim> goatboy, how do I use this script?
[09:37] <|trey|> njs12345: oh, no, sorry  :(
[09:39] <njs12345> hm
[09:39] <njs12345> well
[09:39] <njs12345> I'll have to guide him through it then
[09:40] <yyc747> will the enterprise release be based on warty or hoary, and will it cost money?
[09:40] <goatboy> swim: oh, that script is just for the libraries.
[09:40] <njs12345> yyc747: I'm fairly sure the only cost will be for support
[09:40] <goatboy> swim: run `NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-1.0-6111-pkg2.run -K` to install the kernel module
[09:40] <|trey|> yyc747: no, it will not cost money to distribute amoungst the network... only for support...
[09:40] <njs12345> you could look at UserLinux as well, if your talking for enterprises
[09:40] <yyc747> njs12345: can you get it without support (but with enhancements and extra stability)?
[09:41] <njs12345> yes
[09:41] <yyc747> and which version will it be based on?
[09:41] <|trey|> njs12345: there is talk of Progeny, UserLinux, and Ubuntu working _very_ closely together... sounds more like they are going to be talking about merging...
[09:41] <njs12345> hmm.. that'd be cool
[09:42] <|trey|> Supposedly Perens and Shuttleworth are going to be talking about it, and they are trying to get Murdock involved in the meeting too...
[09:42] <njs12345> it'll be cool once Ubuntu gets a GUI installer as well.. not that I really care, but Joe Luser probably does ;)
[09:43] <joem> the ubuntu installer is pretty straight forward assuming you don't have to mess with partitions
[09:43] <joem> no more then 5 clicks iirc
[09:43] <|trey|> njs12345: well, Progeny brings work on apt-rpm and anaconda for debian... with rpm already installed, these things would make sense...
[09:43] <|trey|> UserLinux is just kinda an idea with no means to get it done by the sounds of things...
[09:43] <njs12345> yeah, I thought I saw stuff about anaconda
[09:44] <yyc747> anaconda is a nice installer
[09:44] <njs12345> yeah
[09:44] <njs12345> I love the bluecurve theme as well
[09:44] <yyc747> but debian/ubuntu still far outstrips windows
[09:44] <yyc747> in terms of installer
[09:44] <njs12345> oh yes
[09:44] <njs12345> of course
[09:44] <njs12345> people bitch so much about how hard linux is to install and stuff
[09:45] <njs12345> but in fact, with Linux today, it's far easier than windows
[09:45] <yyc747> everyone says linux needs a beautiful installer, but windows is so far behind even the ugly installers
[09:45] <|trey|> If Progeny and Ubuntu do combine efforts, I will be happy  :)  Single apt database for .deb and .rpm packages, graphical installer... great developers.
[09:45] <yyc747> but you need to partition!!!!
[09:45] <ions|ubuntu> why is Synaptic asking me to put Wart Warthog in the drive when I try to install Thunderbird?

[09:45] <joem> nobody has to install windows though :)
[09:45] <njs12345> yeah
[09:45] <njs12345> bah
[09:46] <njs12345> OEMs annoy me.. if people actually had to make a choice then there'd be far more people using alternative OSes
[09:46] <ions|ubuntu> any ideas?
[09:46] <|trey|> ions|ubuntu: cuz its on the CD... edit /etc/apt/sources.list and remove the cdrom entry (type "dd")
[09:46] <joem> I bought a computer with lindows on it the other month
[09:47] <joem> just because it takes off 100+ dollars from the price of the box
[09:47] <njs12345> yeah..
[09:47] <yyc747> and then when the OEMs include linux, it's the worse possible distro!
[09:47] <yyc747> I mean, lindows...
[09:47] <|trey|> joem: *shrug* I usually just build my own...
[09:47] <njs12345> <microsoft paid "independent" adviser voice>yeah, but didn't you install a pirated copy of windows on that PC? </voice>
[09:47] <yyc747> why would _any_ distro TELL you to run as root?
[09:47] <|trey|> yyc747: lindows = corporate kde debian
[09:48] <joem> I installed ubuntu actually :)
[09:48] <yyc747> good
[09:48] <njs12345> of course ;)
[09:48] <njs12345> I think Ubuntu looks really cool
[09:48] <yyc747> Why don't they use xpde?
[09:48] <njs12345> hmm
[09:49] <joem> I booted into lindows once to check it out, and it was ugly as sin
[09:49] <njs12345> I love gentoo, but they haven't got GNOME2.8 packages yet :-\
[09:49] <joem> njs12345, yes they do
[09:49] <njs12345> do they?
[09:49] <ions|ubuntu> thanks |trey| :)
[09:49] <njs12345> well
[09:49] <njs12345> sort of
[09:49] <vrln> they are just hard masked
[09:49] <yyc747> njs12345: another gentoo supporter!  I like gentoo, but I'm looking for something that is easier to install and use
[09:50] <njs12345> yeah
[09:50] <|trey|> njs12345: I have ran Gentoo for a total of 16 days in my life... my 950 Duron hated me for it.
[09:50] <njs12345> I'd go with Ubuntu
[09:50] <joem> they are the same packages that will be used when it is unmasked
[09:50] <njs12345> lol
[09:50] <vrln> in other words they aren't stable enough yet
[09:50] <|trey|> ions|ubuntu: I don't recall, what I tell you?
[09:50] <njs12345> |trey|: gentoo rules if you have a fast PC
[09:50] <njs12345> :P
[09:50] <joem> no, there just isn't enough time for them atm
[09:50] <njs12345> or if you spend a lot of time regularly away from your PC
[09:50] <njs12345> e.g school
[09:50] <ions|ubuntu>  removing the CD rom from sources.list
[09:50] <yyc747> njs12345: and you like configuring everything yourself... which is good sometimes, bad other times
[09:51] <yyc747> njs12345: I'm SSH'd to my gentoo box from school right now
[09:51] <njs12345> haha
[09:51] <njs12345> my school would never allow that
[09:51] <njs12345> I mean seriously..
[09:51] <yyc747> Infotech is the most useless class ever (at least at grade 10 level)
[09:51] <yyc747> I hate MS word compared to OO.o
[09:51] <paxetil> in "installing base system" the installation stops in bsdutils, saying that can't download package. is that an cd error ? i've burned from warty-i386.iso
[09:51] <njs12345> I'd be like "Can I ssh into my box at home from school?" and they'd be like "Uhm.. what's SSH?"
[09:51] <|trey|> njs12345: I've had this box for 4 years about... was put together for about $800 att
[09:51] <yyc747> njs12345: I had to use the jedi mind trick
[09:52] <njs12345> lol
[09:52] <njs12345> I _will_ ssh into my box. You _will_ let me
[09:52] <njs12345> :D
[09:52] <Treenaks> njs12345: 8)
[09:52] <njs12345> |trey|: yeah.. I upgraded last christmas
[09:52] <yyc747> no, it was more like "Are you allowed to do that?" and I was like, "Yes.  I am allowed to do this"
[09:52] <njs12345> before that, I had a p3 700Mhz
[09:52] <swim> goatboy, ok so once I get the proper image and headers, all I need to do is "sudo sh NVIDIAetc-pkg2.run -K  ?
[09:52] <njs12345> I love emacs so much
[09:52] <Treenaks> swim: no, ubuntu has nvidia-drivers installed by default
[09:53] <|trey|> njs12345: 633 Celeron  :/
[09:53] <Treenaks> swim: so you don't need the package from nvidia.com
[09:53] <goatboy> swim: for a start, yeah :)
[09:53] <yyc747> njs12345: I am editor-agnostic, other than I don't like nano
[09:53] <Treenaks> read the BinaryDriverHowto on the wiki
[09:53] <Treenaks> yyc747: you'll learn to hate 'ed'
[09:53] <njs12345> I love emacs lisp and the customizability of emacs
[09:53] <goatboy> Treenaks: i386 only, he's on amd64.
[09:53] <njs12345> lol
[09:53] <njs12345> ed
[09:53] <njs12345> oddly enough, I've never actually used ed
[09:53] <|trey|> yyc747: nano isn't so bad... with screen, its not bad at all...
[09:53] <njs12345> but I've read about it
[09:53] <Treenaks> goatboy: do nvidia's drivers work on amd64?
[09:54] <njs12345> the suckiest thing about emacs is that it's written in Motif
[09:54] <goatboy> Treenaks: yes.
[09:54] <|trey|> Treenaks: apparently so, with the script in bugzilla
[09:54] <Treenaks> njs12345: I have.. while constructing a userland from scratch :)
[09:54] <yyc747> |trey|: but it has no features compared to vim or emacs
[09:54] <goatboy> Treenaks: there just wasn't enough time to package it for warty.
[09:54] <Treenaks> njs12345: (reconstructing, actually)
[09:54] <yyc747> emacs is blissfully easy to use 
[09:54] <yyc747> if you just know
[09:54] <njs12345> ouch..
[09:54] <yyc747> C-x.
[09:54] <yyc747> C-s
[09:54] <|trey|> yyc747: I'm kinda an emacs virgin... vim is my freind though  :)
[09:55] <njs12345> I went with emacs because it was the cleverest editor
[09:55] <|trey|> Treenaks: same here... wonder who did them?
[09:55] <njs12345> and it does the "linux" C style really well
[09:55] <njs12345> I used gvim before, and it's fairly cool as well
[09:55] <|trey|> njs12345: it was always too slow for me to stick with...
[09:55] <Treenaks> |trey|: that's easy, read planet ubuntu and the changelogs
[09:55] <yyc747> sry my friend was being an asshat
[09:56] <yyc747> bye now
[09:56] <njs12345> one day, I'm going to make a superplanet
[09:56] <njs12345> like a planet of planets
[09:56] <njs12345> :D
[09:56] <Treenaks> |trey|: "Andrew", I guess that's Andrew Bennetts
[09:56] <|trey|> Treenaks: been reading p.u.o ... didn't see it... rarely read Changelogs enless I am looking for something inpeticular
[09:56] <paxetil> in "installing base system" the installation stops in bsdutils, saying that can't download package. is that an cd error ? i've burned from warty-i386.iso
[09:57] <njs12345> paxetil: sounds like it might be
[09:57] <|trey|> Treenaks: ahh... I need to thank him  :)  He's pretty good @ graphics  :)
[09:57] <Treenaks> |trey|: it says "Andrew" in the changelogs, and Andrew Bennetts is the only person on the planetubuntu roll called Andrew :)
[09:57] <mdz> Treenaks: no, it's a different Andrew
[09:57] <Treenaks> mdz: it is?
[09:57] <Treenaks> mdz: well, thank him for us :)
[09:58] <mdz> ok :-)
[09:58] <|trey|> Treenaks: only 11 of (some places say) 40+ people have Planet accounts...
[09:58] <Treenaks> |trey|: maybe the others don't blog
[09:58] <|trey|> Treenaks: *coughthatsmypointcough*
[09:58] <anders> I've made a couple variants of human-theme grub background, at http://anders.arendal.no/ubuntu_graphics
[09:59] <Treenaks> anders: your SSL certificate is named "localhost"
[10:00] <anders> ehhm
[10:00] <|trey|> anders: nice  :)  I'm getting restless for Hoary when such things will be implemented  :(
[10:00] <Treenaks> anders: (I clicked the music link :))
[10:00] <anders> thanks
[10:00] <anders> Treenaks: do you know me? :)
[10:01] <Treenaks> anders: no, I just like to click links :)
[10:01] <anders> Treenaks: do you know how to make ssl sertificates?
[10:01] <Treenaks> anders: a bit
[10:02] <anders> Treenaks: a few config files involved I guess
[10:02] <EY> i wish ubuntu would install :-(
[10:02] <Treenaks> anders: http://lena.franken.de/linux/create_certificate.html (the cn is the important part..)
[10:03] <|trey|> EY: where do you run into issues?
[10:03] <EY> SATA
[10:03] <EY> it's the preview release
[10:03] <anders> Treenaks: ok, thanks
[10:03] <EY> It loads the NVIDIA3 driver, but it won't show the disks
[10:03] <EY> or rather, disk
[10:03] <|trey|> EY: try #debian-boot
[10:03] <|trey|> EY: they may be more helpful
[10:03] <EY> ok, thanks
[10:04] <Treenaks> great, I have a shitload of .vcf files from my phone (I mailed my address book to myself..), but evolution can't import Nokia VCFs properly (or my phone outputs broken VCFs..)
[10:05] <swim> goatboy, for a start? is there more Ill need to do?
[10:05] <goatboy> swim: after that run the script in bugzilla.
[10:06] <njs12345> Treenaks: I think that VCFs are plaintext
[10:06] <njs12345> so you could find the bit that wasn't working and sed it out or whatever
[10:06] <swim> goatboy, how do I do that? and what will that do?
[10:06] <Treenaks> njs12345: they are.. but there's not a "bit that's wrong".. evolution doesn't pick up photos and other stuff
[10:06] <njs12345> ah
[10:07] <ions|ubuntu> anyone know if Opera and Java work in Ubuntu?
[10:07] <goatboy> swim: download it to the same directory as the NVIDIA installer and run it, and it will install the libraries you need.
[10:08] <Treenaks> njs12345: I think the files are broken.. I'll wait for a new version of multisync and use syncml :)
[10:09] <Treenaks> (if only I could get an operator and phone supporting mobile ipv6, so I could roam from my home network, keep the same IP, and be happy :))
[10:09] <Destrado> Is there a way to set the screen resolution higher than the options in the "Screen Resolution" program?
[10:09] <Treenaks> Destrado: does your monitor support that?
[10:12] <Destrado> I think it does.  It does under Windows, at least.
[10:12] <|trey|> Destrado: towards the bottem of "/etc/X11/XF86Config-4", has listings for Modes... add the largest you want to that list, leave others to assure there are no issues...
[10:13] <njs12345> LOL
[10:13] <njs12345> http://business.newsforge.com/business/04/10/05/1340248.shtml?tid=33
[10:13] <swim> goatboy, ok, and that is after running the NVIDIA installer right?
[10:13] <goatboy> swim: right.
[10:13] <|trey|> Destrado: for "1024x768" I know your HorizSync must be 30-60, and VertSync must be 50-100
[10:14] <|trey|> (the Sync values are further up that same file)
[10:14] <Destrado> OK.  I'm trying the XF86Config-4 bit.  Forgot to sudo it the first time.  :-P
[10:15] <Destrado> Would I have to restart to make the option appear?
[10:15] <swim> goatboy, thank yo, what is the name of that dir? (where I need to put the script)
[10:15] <|trey|> Destrado: kinda.... logout  :)
[10:15] <Destrado> Aha.
[10:15] <|trey|> basically, X must restart
[10:16] <Destrado> I'll try that.  Thank you.
[10:16] <goatboy> swim: whereever you downloaded the NVIDIA installer.
[10:16] <|trey|> Destrado: yw... you may need to go into Computer > System Configuration > Screen Resolution if it doesn't take first time, come back if its not listed there though.
[10:16] <swim> goatboy, odd ok
[10:17] <goatboy> swim: it extracts the libraries from the NVIDIA installer, it needs to be run from the same dir.
[10:19] <swim> oh I get it now ok, Im still updateing all upgradeable stuff in synaptic, unfortunatley it will be a while still
[10:23] <anders> is it like 14000 different .deb's or is it 7000 deb's and 7000 src-deb's ?
[10:24] <|trey|> anders: the former
[10:25] <anders> wow, thats a lot
[10:25] <|trey|> actually, last I heard, Sid had only just over 13,000 - so that can't be right.
[10:26] <anders> I've put som unofficial things in, like jedit, blackdown and stuff
[10:26] <Destrado> |trey|:  No change in the options.  Did I maybe miss a step?
[10:26] <|trey|> I use the word "only" loosly of course.
[10:27] <|trey|> Destrado: you added the Modes entry, you changed the Sync values?
[10:27] <Destrado> Ah.  I did not change sync values.
[10:27] <|trey|> If those are correct, it will work
[10:27] <chutwig> friends
[10:27] <j^> Kamion worked like a charm, the only thing is, its downloads all the files from the net again.
[10:27] <chutwig> when creating an ext2/ext3 filesystem with sparse superblocks, does anyone know the frequency of their placement?
[10:27] <|trey|> Destrado: H 30-60  V 50-100
[10:28] <Destrado> Thank you.
[10:28] <chutwig> ah, i see now
[10:28] <defendguin> punkass__, you here?
[10:29] <punkass__> i am so
[10:29] <defendguin> would you like the icon?
[10:29] <punkass__> sure
[10:29] <defendguin> can i send it through here?
[10:30] <punkass__> probably not..im am behind a router etc
[10:30] <defendguin> ok
[10:30] <punkass__> just post url if u can
[10:30] <defendguin> ill just post it
[10:30] <j^> now it hangs at Starting hotplug subsytem after installing the base system
[10:33] <j^> i wonder what caused that, switching off the external cddrive and rebooting its ok now.
[10:34] <defendguin> http://www.cs.uno.edu/~jsunseri/files/pyfi3.svg
[10:35] <|trey|> j^: then what are you wondering about?  ;)
[10:36] <|trey|> j^: hotplug = usb plugnplay... so you want to look into it later  :)
[10:38] <anders> bsd has 11657 orts
[10:38] <anders> Ports
[10:38] <Telep> hmm, is galeon not available for Ubuntu?
[10:38] <anders> way behind debian
[10:39] <yohan> if I want to kill X without it reloading, what Process should I end ?
[10:39] <goatboy> yohan: /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[10:40] <yohan> goatboy: gdm arleady running. Aborting!
[10:40] <defendguin> punkass__, not too bad i hope
[10:40] <uxi9000> howdy
[10:41] <sander__> howdy
[10:41] <|trey|> yohan: bug.
[10:41] <uxi9000> wanna help me with a mount issue?
[10:41] <punkass__> defendguin: doh, dont have anything on this machine to view svg
[10:41] <tritium> wow, mdz, I just got your announcement about the LiveCD preview in the past hour
[10:41] <|trey|> uxi9000: not if you make me attempt to read your mind  ;)
[10:41] <astinus> Whats the default root password in Ubuntu?
[10:41] <Telep> there isn't one
[10:42] <astinus> fscking setup didn't prompt me to enter one!
[10:42] <astinus> Damnit.
[10:42] <sander__> What do I need to browse windows networks in Nautilus? Smb-client is installed, but I can't configure network browsing.
[10:42] <astinus> Now Xfree is being bitchy too :P
[10:42] <uxi9000> Here is the line from my fstab, It wont allow writing to the volume: /dev/hdb8       /windows        vfat    user,auto,showexec,umask=000     0       0
[10:42] <njs12345> astinus: use sudo -s and your password if you need a root shell
[10:42] <astinus> Just like debian usually does.
[10:42] <Telep> astinus: that's normal, use sudo
[10:42] <|trey|> punkass__: I think gimp will... also, you can install inkscap, they pretty much specialize in SVG
[10:42] <astinus> Telep: Danke.
[10:42] <mdz> tritium: yeah, it was stuck in a moderation queue and I didn't notice
[10:42] <defendguin> punkass__, nautilus doesnt display them?
[10:42] <smeggy> It should be able to do it by default..
[10:42] <punkass__> yeah...just on a work machine...(XP) shhhh
[10:43] <|trey|> punkass__: the human icons are svg, nice touch  :)
[10:43] <Telep> but does anyone know about Galeon? Why isn't it available?
[10:43] <sander__> The message is SMB support is not running, do I need to start it manually?
[10:43] <sander__> Telep, I believe Epiphany has replaced Galeon hasn't it?
[10:43] <astinus> Right, now to work out what doesn't work out the box
[10:43] <astinus> Be back later.
[10:44] <|trey|> Some still missing+not completely configured though
[10:44] <swim> how do I change color theme in gnome?
[10:44] <jgeorgeson> having some issues with suspend modes. running `echo -n mem > /proc/power/state` it appears to go into S3. I hit power and it comes back up with all the windows right. The moust works but not the keyboard. and about 5 seconds later it powers down. When I hit the power button it boots, but doesn't tell me the root fs was umounted uncleanly
[10:44] <punkass__> what is better, sodi  or ink ?
[10:44] <Telep> sander__: oh, I didn't know that. Ok, thanks :)
[10:44] <defendguin> punkass__, you could always set that icon as the icon for a launcher and it will display it
[10:44] <defendguin> ink
[10:44] <defendguin> sodi is a dead project
[10:44] <jgeorgeson> swim: Computer->Desktop Preferences->Theme
[10:44] <punkass__> defendguin...i am in XP so no svgs for me...but i thnk inksacpe has windows version
[10:45] <swim> jgeorgeson, I mean the actual color schemes... ? not the themes
[10:45] <defendguin> yes inkscape does have a win version
[10:45] <defendguin> and i have used it
[10:45] <jgeorgeson> swim, the color scheme is one of the things changed in the theme program
[10:45] <swim> jgeorgeson, ah I see
[10:45] <sivang> how would I enable color coding in vim?
[10:45] <jgeorgeson> swim, just hit the details button and you get a window with three tabs
[10:46] <defendguin> punkass make sure to take a look at it when its tiny so you can see what it will look like as an icon in the panel
[10:46] <jgeorgeson> swim, you want the "controls" tab
[10:46] <punkass__> yeah will do.
[10:46] <swim> jgeorgeson, yah I know I wanted to change the color scheme itself... not anything but the colors... thx
[10:46] <defendguin> i think it looks pretty good
[10:46] <punkass__> ewww...inkscape is comin in at 3.3kb/s
[10:46] <defendguin> lol
[10:47] <defendguin> i think nautilus renders it slightly different than inkscape
[10:47] <jgeorgeson> anybody messing around with acpi? i'm having trouble with s3 (suspend to ram) and want to get s4 (suspend to disk)
[10:47] <|trey|> nautilus uses eog
[10:48] <seb128> |trey|: to do what ?
[10:48] <|trey|> seb128: view svg
[10:48] <seb128> are you sure ?
[10:48] <|trey|> hold on
[10:48] <seb128> afaik nautilus doesn't depend on eog
[10:49] <defendguin> it used to use eog for "View as image collection ..."
[10:50] <|trey|> seb128: ugh, "Couldn't display '/usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/apps/ooo_calc.svg'".. it creates the thumbnails though?
[10:51] <seb128> what's the question ??
[10:51] <|trey|> Well, why can't I view the file when there is a thumbnail I think?
[10:51] <defendguin> |trey|, it uses librsvg to display svg files
[10:52] <|trey|> defendguin: cool  :)
[10:52] <|trey|> Still should be something opening the file  :(
[10:52] <dot> I can't get sound to work on my Dell
[10:53] <dot> all volumes are up and unmuted
[10:53] <defendguin> |trey|, if you want to have a svg viewer install inkscape
[10:53] <|trey|> dot: lspci | grep audio  <-- tell me what that says
[10:53] <dot> 0000:02:0b.0 Multimedia audio controller: Cirrus Logic CS 4614/22/24 [CrystalClear SoundFusion Audio Accelerator]  (rev 01)
[10:54] <|trey|> defendguin: I already said that... I probably should... don't use it much though, should still be able to view it on double click if it can create a thumbnail...
[10:55] <|trey|> (where it = inkscape)
[10:55] <|trey|> then SVG...
[10:56] <punkass__> defendguin: looks good
[10:56] <|trey|> then nautilus...
[10:56] <|trey|> I should be more specific... yes
[10:57] <punkass__> defendguin: so if i get it into an applet i need a few more...<no network> <network found> <connected to network>
[10:57] <punkass__> i guess just variations of the same... maybe green ball for connected etc
[10:57] <|trey|> defendguin: I guess I just think gThumb or eog should be able to view them too...
[10:58] <defendguin> hmmm yes
[10:58] <|trey|> dot: ahh, gotta state my username for me to notice  ;)
[10:59] <defendguin> trey i remember them being able to but it converts them in png to display so it wont scale properly
[11:00] <dot> |trey|: k - plugging headphones into the drive works
[11:00] <dot> I get sound that way
[11:00] <|trey|> dot: you wouldn't happen to have a ThinkPad?
[11:00] <dot> nope Dell
[11:00] <dot> desktop
[11:00] <whiprush> woo!
[11:01] <whiprush> new liveCD!
[11:01] <|trey|> cs46xx  is your audio module
[11:01] <punkass__> are those CD analog cables still needed?
[11:01] <dot> do I have to add a module to the kernel?
[11:02] <|trey|> dot: not if its working... you said it wasn't though...
[11:02] <dot> I can't get sound through tthe speakers....but plugging phones into the cd drive works
[11:02] <|trey|> Now I'm just telling you for future reference cuz else I looked it up for nothing  ;)
[11:03] <|trey|> In volume control... turn up cd volume
[11:03] <dot> all volumes are up
[11:04] <dot> I think the speakers may not be in the right hole
[11:04] <mir> Anyone got any opinion on weather I should use Stable, Testing or unstable repository of Marillat?
[11:04] <|trey|> mir: unstable works...
[11:04] <mir> |trey|: Ok thanks...
[11:05] <|trey|> mir: with the added bonus of Ubuntu is a snapshot of Sid at its earliest form, so they are pretty much compatible
[11:05] <mir> |trey|: Good, then I will go for unstable.. 
[11:05] <|trey|> mir: from now on, update when you switch versions only though...
[11:06] <|trey|> comment it out between that time
[11:06] <|trey|> Things might change in sid, you don't want to have your packages to be configured for them...
[11:07] <mir> |trey|: I should comment out marillat's  ?
[11:07] <mir> Did I get u right?
[11:07] <|trey|> after installing the packages you want, yes.
[11:08] <mir> |trey|: Ok.. thanks for youre advice
[11:08] <|trey|> basically stick a # at the beginning of the line you entered to access his repository  :)
[11:08] <burriko> what do you guys recommend for switching between different wireless network profiles?
[11:08] <|trey|> burriko: dhcp
[11:08] <mir> |trey|: :-) I know...
[11:09] <burriko> i mean switching between different keys and network IDs
[11:09] <smeggy> Can't you just use the Network Profiles feature ni the Network COnfig app?
[11:10] <dot> |trey|: the speakers are plugged in and the volumes in volume control are all up
[11:11] <|trey|> burriko: Computer > System Configuration > Networking > bottem "Network Profiles"
[11:11] <burriko> i did try that, but it only ever remembered the last key that i entered.  i created different profiles for home and work but it would only remember 1 key.  i'll give it another go though.
[11:13] <|trey|> burriko: I have 3 right now
[11:14] <burriko> 3 wireless profiles in the "Networking" config tool?  cool, i'll give it another go then
[11:14] <dot> |trey|: any other ideas?  If it's working from headphones but no where else?
[11:14] <miguel> hi all; right place to ask for help in installing warty?
[11:14] <|trey|> burriko: good luck, come back if it still doesn't work
[11:14] <dot> headphones from the drive anyway
[11:15] <burriko> ok, cheers
[11:15] <|trey|> miguel: yes
[11:17] <dot> |trey|: headphones plugged into the soundcard at the back produce no sound
[11:17] <miguel> ok then, here goes: laptop without a CD, running debian unstable; got warty iso on my HD, unpacked it to /UBUNTU/warty-i386. Arranged lilo to boot to image=/UBUNTU/warty-i386/install/vmlinuz, initrd similarly. Good - it boots to the installer ...
[11:17] <|trey|> dot: ok, you load that module I told you?
[11:17] <|trey|> dot: modprobe it
[11:18] <dot> sudo modprobe cs46xx?\
[11:18] <|trey|> yes
[11:18] <dot> nothing happens whne I do that
[11:19] <miguel> ... but - no luck instructing it to find the rest of the data. What I did was: in console 2, mounted the HD to /mnt, then 'ln -s /mnt/UBUNTU/wart-i386 /cdrom'
[11:19] <miguel> No joy :(
[11:19] <|trey|> Thats a good sign actually
[11:19] <|trey|> dot: better then saying "Unable to load"  :)
[11:19] <dot> heh yeah
[11:19] <dot> how do I load it?
[11:20] <|trey|> dot: echo cs46xx >> /etc/modules so you don't have to type that all the time... that gets annoying  :)
[11:20] <salgado> my netspeed applet is crashing when I change it to monitor my ppp0 interface. somebody have seen this? should I file a bug report?
[11:20] <|trey|> dot: its loaded...
[11:20] <|trey|> dot: logout, log back in
[11:21] <dot> the module is not listed in /etc/modules
[11:21] <|trey|> dot: >> = copy to the bottem of....
[11:22] <carlos> mdz: is the current Ubuntu easy to install under UML?
[11:22] <|trey|> dot: sudo echo cs46xx >> /etc/modules
[11:22] <|trey|> dot: sorry, its a system configuration file  :/
[11:22] <dot> k
[11:22] <|trey|> I'm usually using sudo -s
[11:22] <dot> logoff amd back on |trey| 
[11:22] <dot> ?
[11:23] <|trey|> dot: yeah... then you should get a sound on login  :)
[11:23] <dot> k
[11:23] <dot> brb
[11:26] <|trey|> he's taking a while to log back in...
[11:26] <|trey|> Thats maybe a good thing though?
[11:26] <miguel> Ie, I did more or less what was suggested in http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-September/000077.html - but the installer keeps complaining about not finding the cd. 
[11:30] <miguel> So: anybody's got any experience in installing without a CD?
[11:32] <dot> |trey|: I now have sound, thank you, but I can't get CD audio to play
[11:33] <|trey|> dot: your welcome... I sometimes have to plug in speakers to the CD Drive myself  :/
[11:33] <steveod> anyone using the mplayer plugin?
[11:34] <|trey|> steved: afaik mozilla-mplayer depends mozilla-browser... thus not useful for me
[11:34] <credmp> is mplayer even in the ubuntu sources?
[11:34] <|trey|> mplayer-nogui and default application works just as well though...
[11:34] <dot> very odd
[11:34] <|trey|> credmp: nope
[11:34] <steveod> no, but through universe mplayer can be installed
[11:34] <dot> is it easy to add mp3 support?
[11:34] <|trey|> steveod: not yet
[11:34] <credmp> |trey|, I was going to install it from sources..... do you have a deb url for it?
[11:35] <Tux234> I need some help
[11:35] <|trey|> credmp: search apt-get.org for mplayer-nogui ffmpeg and w32codecs... each are on a marrilat repo also stating nerim, get it
[11:36] <|trey|> actually wait
[11:36] <Tux234> I d/l Ubuntu today and set it up but it mistakingly used my integrated graphics
[11:36] <|trey|> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main    #mplayer
[11:36] <Tux234> but I have a Nvidia Geforce 2 Mx/200
[11:36] <credmp> |trey|, nice... thanks
[11:37] <|trey|> deb http://jopa.studentenweb.org/debian/ ./      #Java and Flash plugins
[11:37] <Tux234> So I don't get a display when I start X
[11:37] <mir> Why cant I change my desktop wall paper i ubuntu?
[11:37] <Tux234> hello?
[11:37] <|trey|> mir: you can, click browse
[11:37] <Tux234> bbiab
[11:38] <|trey|> ahh, Add Wallpaper
[11:38] <mir> |trey|: It is in the list and it is selected, but the background does not change
[11:38] <|trey|> Changes here  :/
[11:41] <agraupe> either my imagination is playing tricks on me, or I didn't get to set a root password during the install
[11:41] <credmp> agraupe, only sudo iirc
[11:41] <agraupe> credmp: ah
[11:42] <agraupe> credmp: I suppose, if desired, I could run sudo passwd to set the root password?
[11:42] <|trey|> I think the Ubuntu universe (or perhaps multiverse as it sounds closer) should somehow link to outside sources, so its actually say Sun giving people java, but Ubuntu enables it... much like the installer for Flash in Main on Debian
[11:42] <|trey|> not Main, Contrib
[11:42] <credmp> agraupe, tja....
[11:42] <|trey|> Thats what I meant, really  :)
[11:42] <steveod> well i just found a deb repo that had mplayerplug-in and downloaded then installed that
[11:42] <agraupe> credmp: what does tja mean?
[11:42] <steveod> appears to work
[11:43] <credmp> agraupe, it means... tja.. you could do that... but what would be the point?
[11:43] <agraupe> and I just enter my user password for the "enter root password" boxes
[11:43] <credmp> agraupe, tja also means I had to much whiskey
[11:43] <agraupe> ah so
[11:43] <credmp> agraupe, smart kid :)
[11:44] <agraupe> wouldn't it be more secure to set a root password and disallow root the ability to log in?
[11:44] <credmp> agraupe, they all use gnome-su iirc... make it a graphical sudo
[11:44] <agraupe> right
[11:44] <credmp> agraupe, so... then you would use su to go to root to perform a task instead of doing exactly the same with sudo?
[11:45] <credmp> sudo su gives you root
[11:45] <credmp> too
[11:45] <credmp> the actual user
[11:46] <Tux234> ok I'm back
[11:46] <agraupe> credmp: I see... I am saying that, wouldn't it be more useful to have a separate root password because then an attacker would have to guess a login/password pair and the root password to make any changes
[11:46] <Tux234> Um excuse me
[11:46] <credmp> then you would also have to take the account out of adm group as well as revoke sudo rights
[11:47] <|trey|> steveod: Christian Marillat is a Debian Developer, I tend to trust these more then random hobbyests for some reason...
[11:47] <Tux234> hello?
[11:47] <Tux234> I gotta question
[11:48] <asdf_46> hi
[11:48] <|trey|> Tux234: if you ask it, you will find its more likely to get answered
[11:48] <|trey|> asdf_46: hi
[11:48] <credmp> Tux234, are you waiting for someone to say you may ask a question?
[11:48] <steveod> trey: i have the mplayer stuff installed from his site, but I am just trying to get something working, though this didn't solve it
[11:48] <asdf_46> Tux234, you may ask
[11:48] <Tux234> no I was just tryin to get a open spot hehe :)
[11:48] <Tux234> but anyway
[11:49] <|trey|> steveod: good pr0n codecs: w32codecs, ffmpeg  <-- both in marillats repository
[11:49] <steveod> trey: i am working on getting rtsp working in firefox, and when i used archlinux it came up via mplayer
[11:49] <Tux234> i installed ubuntu today but during the configuration it choose my integrated graphics over my GeForce 2 MX/200
[11:49] <credmp> at least |trey| understands the essence of internet ;)
[11:50] <Tux234> So I couldn't get a display when Gnomne tried to start
[11:50] <|trey|> credmp: ;)
[11:50] <steveod> trey: archives of kexp.org's live performances, already have p0rn working
[11:50] <Tux234> Anyway around this?
[11:50] <|trey|> credmp: beats the hell outta going to jail for rape  :/
[11:50] <anders> Tux234: you could blacklist the module for your integrated graphics
[11:50] <Tux234> How?
[11:50] <credmp> |trey|, you got that damn right ;)
[11:51] <anders> Tux234: first you need to find the module name of it
[11:51] <Tux234> Oh its i810 
[11:51] <Tux234> sorry hehe :)
[11:51] <|trey|> Tux234: modules in restricted is what you need... you will want to unload (rmmod) your integrated, and load (modprobe) the Nvidia card...
[11:52] <Tux234> so just modprobe nvidia?
[11:52] <Tux234> after rmmod
[11:52] <|trey|> Tux234: no... you have to get the modules, install them, then load them, then they work  :)
[11:52] <agraupe> how can I make nautilus open new folders in the same window?
[11:52] <anders> Tux234: yes, and for a more permanent solution in /etc/hotplug/blacklist.d/ make a file with i810 in it
[11:52] <Tux234> From apt-get?
[11:52] <|trey|> So you need to download a package from resticted
[11:53] <punkass__> agraupe: hold shift key
[11:53] <Tux234> k Thx!
[11:54] <punkass__> or u can set it to "browse" all the time..which is the most people are used to
[11:54] <asdf_46> agraupe, Set the nautilus prefs to open winows in browser to get rid of spatial.
[11:54] <Tux234> is restricted enabled by default?
[11:55] <|trey|> Tux234: you need linux-restricted-modules-2.6.8.1
[11:55] <|trey|> apt-get install it
[11:55] <Tux234> or do I have to add it to sources.list
[11:55] <|trey|> Yes its enabled by defualt
[11:55] <Tux234> Ok gotcha thx a bunch!
[11:55] <|trey|> nvidia-kernel-common
[11:55] <|trey|> actually that
[11:55] <|trey|> my bad
[11:55] <yohan> can anybody here tell me where in kernel configuration I can find the /drivers/char/drm/gamme_dma.c ? its' giving me an error when i try to compile my kernel
[11:55] <|trey|> nvidia-settings
[11:55] <|trey|> and that
[11:56] <Tux234> Anything Else? :)
[11:56] <anders> nvidia-glx ?
[11:56] <|trey|> so 'apt-get install nvidia-kernel-common nvidia-settings'
[11:56] <agraupe> asdf_46: where is this option?
[11:56] <|trey|> anders: apparently not, its not there  :/
[11:56] <anders> ok
[11:57] <|trey|> anders: then they changed the name of the kernel, so why wouldn't they change the name of modules?
[11:57] <asdf_46> agraupe, always open in browser windows in the behavior tab in the prefs.
[11:57] <steveod> is there a place to look at the changelogs for recent updates?
[11:58] <|trey|> steveod: apt-get install apt-listchanges
[11:58] <steveod> thanks
[11:58] <|trey|> Sends you a nice little email and everything... or other things...
[11:58] <|trey|> Like on screen etc...
[11:58] <Python2121> hey guys, how can i check if my sound card is detected?
[11:59] <|trey|> Python2121: cat /dev/random > /dev/dsp
[11:59] <asdf_46> Python2121, try lsmod to see if the modual is there.
[11:59] <|trey|> Python2121: cat /dev/random > /dev/audio
[11:59] <anders> |trey|: I have nvidia-glx-1.0.6111-1ubuntu5, don't know if it's from universe or multiverse