[12:48] thom: the feedback on the 0.9.3 downgrade has been 100% positive, let's get it into warty straight away [12:49] mdz: hey [12:49] mdz: what about the new gst/totem packages and eagle-usb ? [12:51] mdz: oof :) [12:51] jdub: oof indeed [12:51] jdub: hey :) [12:51] mdz: sat in the upload queue, although i think katie is sulking [12:51] jdub: same question :p [12:51] seb128: I thought I had upgraded to your new gst/totem, but I seem to have the same version as in warty [12:52] seb128: could you give me the sources.list entry again please? [12:52] thom: hmm. anyone roused elmo? [12:52] mdz: the last security fix was a one liner to a javascript file, which was a nice surprise [12:52] thom: how very un-mozilla of them [12:52] mdz: just pinged him on jabber, will text in a second [12:52] mdz: deb http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~seb128/gstreamer/ / [12:53] mdz: indeed - the bug talks of suggestions of monster changes, and then someone goes "why not change remove from true to false" and that's what they did [12:53] seb128: it is hard to say whether it is any better than the previous version; it still doesn't seem to play any video streams for me :-/ [12:53] seb128: is there any video encoding that it is known to play properly? [12:54] theora ? [12:54] mizar:[/space/video/misc] totem http://mirror.fluendo.com:8800/ [12:54] zsh: segmentation fault totem http://mirror.fluendo.com:8800/ [12:55] (after saying it could not play for unknown reasons) [12:56] I had a theora stream which I tested with the previous version [12:56] the A/V sync was way off and the video choppy [12:56] ah, it was the RMS thing, I'll retry that [12:57] "totem http://mirror.fluendo.com:8800/" works here ... [12:57] hmmm [12:57] ii totem-gstreamer 0.99.17-0ubuntu1 A simple media player for the Gnome desktop based on g [12:57] \ [12:57] ii libgstreamer0.8-0 0.8.7-1 Core GStreamer libraries, plugins, and utilities [12:58] mdz: I've read through the binary diff and it seems the only things changed are timestamps and compiled-in paths (from the build directory) [12:58] mdz: yeah, current versions ... [12:58] mdz: so if I could get permission to upload, I'd be very glad. [12:58] hmm, it is playing now [12:58] second try [12:58] weird [12:58] Mithrandir: OK [12:58] I _really_ think #1854 needs bumped to RC [12:58] seb128: does gstreamer default to esd output on new installs? [12:59] it's what's killing katie on jackass [12:59] seb128: mine seemed to be set for OSS, but I may have opened gstreamer-properties at some point [12:59] mdz: I've not changed the patches [12:59] "don't use SMP kernels" isn't really a very good answer [12:59] elmo_: what kind of box is jackass? [01:00] Mithrandir: how do you mean ? [01:00] seb128: it still segfaults when I exit totem [01:00] elmo_: cpu type? [01:00] (and number) [01:00] elmo_: well, after Mithrandir you're the first person to be able to reproduce it, so by all means... [01:00] 1 3.2Ghz Xeon HT [01:00] seb128: i support upgrading gst as a natural bugfix release from gnome [01:00] but I also saw it on apt-extracttemplates on one of the 3.06GHz Dual Xeon boxes [01:00] (ie. 2.8 desktop packages) [01:01] and then totem on top of that is not a huge worry [01:01] ok [01:01] seb128: anyway, it doesn't seem to be any more broken than the previous version [01:01] mdz: I think it's triggered by HT somehow, and HT isn't that common. [01:01] it still doesn't play theora streams or anything else for me [01:01] mdz: according to upstream a lot of bugs have been fixed [01:01] ok to push it ? [01:01] I can get about 2-3 frames from it and then it never draws a new frame [01:01] sure [01:02] we don't have a lot to loose, totem-gstreamer didn't work fine in all cases [01:02] mdz: I'm going to try to reproduce it on a friend's FC box, in an ubuntu chroot, if so, we should find out whether it's the kernel or glibc (or possibly still unknown) [01:02] Mithrandir: ?? it's ridiculously common in servers [01:02] seb128: I agree [01:03] elmo_: you're probably the only one on staff running Ubuntu on that grade of server at the moment [01:03] ok thanks [01:03] elmo_: I think we have a small market share when it comes to workstations, but our server market share is probably ~0% on servers. [01:03] uhm s/on servers// [01:04] since people are a lot more likely to jump on the "new shiny distro" wagon for workstations and home boxes than for servers. [01:04] Mithrandir: dude, we can't ship a product where gzip doesn't fricking work on any modern server and expect to be taken seriously [01:04] mdz: and about eagle-usb ? Sorry to ask again, but some french guys would be happy to get the change, and I don't think that eagle-adsl is used a lot, should not problematic neither ... [01:04] elmo_: no, we can't, I'm just trying to guess why nobody but us two have stumbled across it so far. [01:05] seb128: ok, so currently we have neither eagle-adsl nor eagle-usb in warty, they are alternatives to each other, and you propose that we add eagle-usb to supported? [01:05] I think it's a timing issue somewhere, since the only way to reproduce it is to run apt-extracttemplates a bunch of times. [01:05] and strace makes the timing slightly off, so the problem then disappears. [01:05] Mithrandir: nothing else with a gzip pipeline triggers the problem? [01:06] mdz: not that I've seen [01:06] mdz: hum, let me checked, but one should be in the shipped seed [01:06] elmo_: if you can put me in a position where I can debug it, I'll have a go [01:06] seb128: neither one seems to be in main [01:06] seb128: I thought we had discussed this before and agreed on it [01:06] mdz: I can give you root on the box if you want, no problems. :) [01:07] Mithrandir: ok [01:07] Mithrandir: shall I send you an ssh key? [01:07] mdz: ok, eagle-usb-utils is in the shipseed [01:08] mdz: I've pinged you 2 times, but never go a "ok" ... you asked for details and we didn't get a conclusion [01:08] mdz: just sent you a mail with host name and password; hope you have your key nearby. [01:09] mdz: BTW the module in the kernel package is the -usb one and the package is in the seed, so I'll upload it if you're ok [01:09] seb128: ok, my apologies [01:09] no problem [01:09] seb128: is eagle-usb-utils sufficient? [01:09] yes === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-78.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:09] 12 2004-09-24 00:38:11 852 MattZimmerman add eagle-usb-utils [01:10] seb128: so we did agree and I added it to the seed [01:10] hum [01:10] there is a -data too [01:10] if we need the -data, that is fine with me [01:10] ok thanks [01:11] mdz: perhaps we agreed but I missed the agreement :) BTW that's ok now, thanks [01:14] that's just fucking typical. I reboot 19 machines when I'm physically there and they all come back fine. I reboot one machine when I'm 200 miles away and it dies [01:14] Mithrandir: yeah, I am at home. logged in now [01:14] Mithrandir: so what's the easiest way to reproduce it? [01:15] elmo_: no iLO goodness? [01:15] mdz: cd /var/cache/apt/archives [01:15] then run apt-extracttemplates apache2-mpm-worker_2.0.50-12ubuntu3_i386.deb [01:15] like ten times. [01:15] I just did apt-extracttemplates *.deb and it hung right away [01:15] mdz: no, not for this machine [01:17] fucking gdb [01:17] mdz: have fun. :) [01:19] elmo_: there's a much simpler workaround than "don't use SMP"; just disable TLS/NPTLS/whatever [01:19] mdz: blah, well, a little late for that now [01:20] "disable NPTL" isn't an option in many cases either, though. [01:20] only if you're running a billion threads [01:20] mdz: that's just my workstation, so feel free to hack away on it, but please don't kill /home, fyi. [01:27] lamont: care to adjust PaS for linux-restricted-modules? There's a version I'm uploading now with amd64 support. [01:27] (gdb) bt [01:27] #0 0x40108721 in pthread_setcanceltype () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 [01:27] (gdb) [01:27] gdb is so fucking useless with tls [01:28] Mithrandir: nice bandwidth :-) [01:29] mdz: university network, so 100Mbit straight to the box. [01:29] would have been nice with gbit, but it doesn't really matter. [01:43] mdz: what about #2204 and #2216 for warty? [01:44] doko: 2204 is a one-liner, right? OK with me [01:44] doko: regarding 2216, could you explain the problem a bit? [01:46] mdz: 2204: yes. 2216: a file is deleted during the build. the patch makes sure that this file exists at all times and the python modules gets built. [01:47] doko: I don't understand the original problem, though. if this file is important, why is it disappearing? [01:49] if I understand it correctly: * debian/rules: Added a workaround for python/libxslt-py.c file to recover [01:49] its original state after build (to avoid pollution of svn and diff file). [01:50] but that fails, if you build the package twice. [01:50] (changelog from 1.1.6-1) [01:52] so the file is modified during the build, and the packagaing was trying to restore it? [01:53] exactly, and misses the fact that it's remove by make realclean [01:53] doko: ok, thanks, I understand. OK to upload [01:53] Mithrandir: I have a workaround for apt-extracttemplates at least [01:54] did elmo say if he saw it anywhere other than in apt-extracttemplates? [01:54] I don't think katie uses that [01:54] it's seeming like a glibc bug [01:54] mdz: ok, what would it be? [01:55] Mithrandir: apt-inst's extracttar does this funny thing where it sends a signal to gzip right when it's supposed to be exiting, to make sure it's gone [01:55] Mithrandir: if I turn that off, it never hangs [01:56] ok === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:07] argh, it's 1am === thom goes to bed [02:07] ugh, jackass is down? [02:07] yeah [02:07] elmo is en route currently [02:07] from where? [02:07] from his house to the data center [02:08] this are a few miles ... :-( [02:09] at this time of night, it's easier for him to drive than for me to try and get there *sigh* [02:09] shit happens. [02:10] good night! [02:15] ahar! [02:15] thom: all you need is acpi_sleep=s3_bios for x40 suspend [02:15] thom: mind if I package your /etc/acpi as acpi-support-x40 or something? === Mithrandir goes to bed [02:18] thom: (after cleaning it up a bit) [02:18] no, not at all [02:19] Mithrandir: PaS is an elmo thing. [02:20] thom: rad, thanks [02:20] thom: my 'X40 on Ubuntu' page will consist of: 'First, boot with linux acpi_sleep=s3_bios when you install. Secondly, when you're done, add in this APT source, and install acpi-support-x40.' [02:22] heh, nod [02:24] Teh x40 is teh rock [02:24] mjg59: that it is [02:25] indeed, it is love [02:26] daniels: those scripts are originally mjg59's, and gpl'd (i'm sure i'll be corrected shortwith if my memory is broken :) ) [02:26] thom: #1357 and friends should be trivial to fix now, yes? [02:27] mdz: the language packs are just gonna need to be updated to accept our warped version numbers, yeah [02:27] i'm intending to do that first thing tomorrow [02:30] One of the Novell people at the expo told me something interesting [02:30] NLD will ship with KDE in Europe and Gnome in the US, allegedly [02:30] mjg59: *boggle* [02:31] they really think the divide is that strong? [02:32] Seemingly so [02:32] have you guys also experienced a random system beep? [02:32] But also, I think all their EU support staff are originally SuSE [02:32] i'm getting one, and Googling shows it also happens under XP, but if you remove a device called 'Beep' from Device Manager (?!?), it all goes away [02:33] mjg59: dude, that's total bong [02:33] mjg59: so there will be SuSE, KDE NLD and GNOME NLD? [02:33] daniels: Using wireless? [02:33] And ifplugd? [02:34] mjg59: yes, and maybe [02:34] mjg59: does ifplugd run as a daemon? [02:34] Yes [02:34] mjg59: ok. it's not running, but I've muted everything anyway. [02:34] If so, it's probably the firmware resets on the wireless card [02:34] nope, not even installed [02:34] Hmm [02:35] basically, it sounds like there's a hard disk write, then a system beep [02:35] Check whether it correlates to those anyway [02:35] Oh, are you /sure/ it's a beep? [02:35] http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/pipermail/linux-thinkpad/2004-July/019160.html [02:35] The drive makes an odd chirp noise when it parks [02:35] http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/pipermail/linux-thinkpad/2004-August/019163.html [02:35] it's a beep-like sound, but it does sound a little different [02:35] can I make the drive shut the fuck up? [02:35] Mine doesn't seem to do it now [02:35] I've no idea what changed [02:36] NetworkManager is hardcore crackadelia, by the way [02:36] thom: duh [02:36] NetworkManager was a mess of race when I tried it [02:36] mjg59: which kernel are you running? [02:36] 2.6.7 [02:36] +random patches [02:37] it's now a mess of race, with broken dbus permissions [02:37] It's irritating - Netapplet is the wrong solution, but it works [02:37] mjg59: are you running laptop-mode? [02:37] thom: urgh [02:37] NetworkManager is the right solution, but implemented in an over-complex way [02:37] daniels: Yeah [02:37] Only on battery, though [02:37] networkmanager will eventually get there, but may need a rethink and tears to get there [02:38] mjg59: right [02:38] mjg59: any clue as to which patches you're running? [02:38] yes, it definitely sounds like the drive parking [02:39] daniels: ACPI + random stuff of my own to debug ACPI stuff [02:39] Shouldn't be anything special [02:39] the packages almost work, but there really needs to be a way to add NetworkManagerInfo to the user's gnome session :/ [02:39] Playing with the hdparm accoustic management stuff might help [02:41] hm [02:41] yeah, I just set it to 192 on a semi-whim === daniels waits for it to spin down. [02:41] GAH [02:46] 128 is the only one that's likely to do anything [02:48] yeah, tried that too [03:15] thom: patching the default session might be a start [03:48] yo mjg59 [04:17] I think we've found a paleobug in gzip [04:20] ew === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 12 RC bugs to go [05:23] morning guys === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:fabbione] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 13 RC bugs to go [05:30] 13 RC till warty? [05:30] Rejected: libglib2.0-udeb_2.4.7-0ubuntu1_x86_64.udeb: architecture part of filename (x86_64) does not match package architecture in the udeb (amd64). === lamont giggles [05:31] chrisa: bug in discover1-data [05:33] and thunderbird keeps crashing on me.. === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 12 RC bugs to go [05:36] (downgraded a NEEDINFO bug which had been waiting for too long) [05:36] looked like it was fixed, but the submitter would not confirm [05:37] mdz: do you guys want the user manual's in yelp to be Ubuntu specific for Hoary? If so I will start working on them if noone is [05:37] hornbeck: an updated user manual would be delightful [05:38] ok, I did not want to start without knowing it was needed [05:38] I am on it [06:14] mdz: can i remove Build-Dep: libstdc++5-3.3-dev ? [06:14] according to debian any pkg providing libstdc++-dev is build-essential [06:17] bah we can wait after warty [06:21] daniels: you around? === fabbione feels very lonely [06:30] mdz: are you still around? [06:33] hornbeck: ROCK! [06:34] ah jdub! [06:35] jdub: i have a "design" problem here [06:36] jdub: 2205, 2106, 1690 [06:36] jdub: basically the problems are: [06:36] fabbione: here [06:36] people that installs using an american/english language they get wrongly an US keyboard in X [06:36] + there is a 50% 50% chance to get the keyboard model wrong on ppc [06:37] now there is no easy solution for warty to any of these problems [06:37] my suggestion is: [06:37] if LAYOUT=us we ask to confirm the layout. For us people is one enter [06:37] and for ppc users we need to ask to confirm the keyboard model [06:38] all the other cases will NOT see the questions [06:38] that's the best we can do atm [06:38] mdz: i also reviewed again Kostantinos code [06:38] and he keeps going for the LANG way that we know isn't complete [06:38] or working in all cases [06:39] what do you want me to do? [06:39] fabbione: can we use the answer to the keymap question in d-i? [06:39] mdz: no. we don't have the mappings [06:39] it is quite late to be making these changes [06:39] mdz: + that question has been reintroduced not too long ago [06:39] hrm, makes me a little queasy [06:40] mdz: asking for me is setting a variable [06:40] it's not like i need to reimplement the code [06:40] if [ $LAYOUT=us ] ; then PRIORITY=high; fi [06:40] 2 lines like that [06:41] and that would ask the usual X keymap question? [06:41] which is two screens and text entry? [06:41] mdz: that will ask only for the layout [06:41] one question [06:41] users do not generally know how to answer that question [06:41] well debconf displays it as one screen of text and then a prompt for the keymap name [06:41] but more importantly, the user doesn't know the answer [06:42] mdz: it's one screen only [06:42] the message is hidden with priority low [06:43] ah, so that is actually a separate question [06:43] so the user would see "Please select your keyboard layout" and a text entry box [06:43] when you get the 3 questions in a raw is because you are either reconfiguring or installing debian [06:43] that is extremely unfriendly [06:44] well i can reenable messages if that's required [06:44] I think it's a problem either way [06:44] but i think that as it is now is going to me the root of my headackes until hoary will have the "nice selector" [06:46] if it is not yet right for warty, I think it is time to say "oops" and let it go [06:46] we cannot make things worse for cases where it currently works [06:50] http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/boom [06:50] ah nevermind [06:50] it's missing one thing [06:51] ok [06:51] mdz, jdub: that's the changelog for the next X upload [06:52] it should also fix 1089 but only for common layout as Denis specified [06:52] so it's not a complete fix [06:52] changelog is pedantic [06:52] but the changes are minimal and tested [06:53] fabbione: sup? [06:53] jdub: thanks I will try to have some good docs in place [06:54] daniels: check above url [06:55] fabbione: checking now [06:56] looks good to me === x4m [~max@50-65.244.81.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:00] hornbeck: if you make any changes that would be appropriate for upstream, perhaps we should split those out and send them up [07:00] ok [07:01] jdub: Do you want all of the manuals in yelp to be Ubuntu specific? [07:01] or just updated to the releases [07:05] I am thinking of adding a Ubuntu tab under the "Help Contents/Categories" for strictly Ubuntu docs [07:06] hornbeck: ideally, they should be well integrated [07:06] hornbeck: but upstream need to provide a way for that to be done easily [07:06] atm it's very hard [07:07] jdub: I noticed that the user guide shipping with Warty is for Gnome-2.6 [07:07] is noone working on it anymore? === Skif [~emschwar@216.17.176.4] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:07] hornbeck: it hasn't had a lot of love for this release [07:07] hmm [07:07] hornbeck: the man to speak to for status is shaunm [07:08] jdub: I was working with him, but he kinda flaked out alot [07:08] over worked I guess [07:08] heh [07:08] he's been busy [07:08] yeah, I would have been flaking to [07:08] I will touch base with him [07:09] cool [07:09] unfortunately, that's an area that needs work (upstream + vendor documentation) [07:11] I just sent him a email about helping with the Gnome User Guide [07:11] if I can get it updated enough maybe it will help Ubuntu and Gnome === Skif [~emschwar@216.17.176.4] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:17] hornbeck: you're a legend, thank you :-) [07:17] haha [07:18] jdub: in cvs it looks like there is 2.8 docs [07:19] ahhh, it is maintained by the Sun GNOME Doc team [07:24] except not [07:24] because they can't keep up ;) [07:24] I guess that is where I come in [07:41] mdz: i added the warty bug info to the changelog. [07:41] jdub: same for you === eniac [~jonas@cable-213.214.37.93.coditel.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:48] oh man [09:48] this is really scary [09:48] i've started typing: sudo apt-get source ... [09:49] I did that too the other day. [09:49] scary, yes. [09:51] http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/console-common_u3-to-u4.diff [09:51] to fix: 2196 [09:52] anybody can review the "deep" changes? ;) [09:52] looks good to me. :P [09:53] jdub: ??? [09:54] fabbione: I think this falls into the "trivial" category. [09:54] Mithrandir: i know :-)))) [09:54] i am just teasing jdub [09:54] since nobody still approved my Xfree86 changes [09:54] ;) [09:54] on the otherside nobody here smokes enough crack for that [09:55] fabbione: could you look at http://raw.no/patches/nvidia-settings_1.0-4.amd64.diff and tell me if it looks sane to you? === jdub spanks fabbione [09:55] jdub: or you, possibly. [09:56] this is almost like old times, sponsorwhining on IRC :D [09:57] Mithrandir: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s11.8.7 [09:57] EXTINCSRC=/usr/X11R6/include/X11/extensions [09:57] needs to be changed [09:57] to /usr/include/X11/foobarbazcrap [09:58] that makefile is imake-generated. [09:58] imake sucks, didn't you know that? [09:59] but i was talking about debian/rules [09:59] tell nvidia, not me. :) === suheimi [~suheimi@222.124.44.6] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:59] oh, in rules [10:00] anyway [10:00] if you want to simplify that [10:00] you can build-deps on xutils [10:00] and use xmkmf [10:00] that will generate the Makefile from the Imakefile on the fly [10:00] otherwise you can use imake (still from xutils) [10:00] imake -I/usr/X11R6/lib/config/ [10:01] or something like that [10:01] DESCRIPTION [10:01] The xmkmf command is the normal way to create a Makefile from an Imake- [10:01] file shipped with third-party software. [10:01] is running imake when building the preferred solution? [10:02] no idea of what nvidia-setting does [10:02] but i can see you are adding Makefiles [10:02] the best way is to create them [10:02] so that when imake/xmkmf will change [10:02] ok, then I'll do that instead. [10:02] it will be enough to reupload/rebuild the package [10:02] other than recreating all the Imakefiles === fabbione can't wait to see how many packages will FTBFS with X.org [10:04] heh [10:07] questions: it is said that python is integrated in ubuntu. How integrated is it? [10:08] fabbione: so you're happier with http://raw.no/patches/nvidia-settings_1.0-4.amd64.2.diff ? [10:09] suheimi: a rich python environment is provided by default, and a greater degree of integration is coming in future releases [10:09] ahr, mdz [10:09] mdz: you happy with this patch for openldap2? [10:09] http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/evolution-exchange/docs/openldap-ntlm.diff?rev=1.1.1.1 [10:09] hmm, didn't we talk about this already? [10:09] yes, just making sure [10:10] as i'm about to upload [10:10] is it going tobe like java and jds linux? [10:10] Mithrandir: yes.. just check if it compiles at it should :-))) [10:10] suheimi: WAAAAAAAAY more integrated [10:10] Mithrandir: but it looks much simpler than shipping a 200K Makefile [10:10] ;) [10:10] fabbione: "hey, it compiles! Ship it!" [10:10]