Kamionmdz: can I add the linux-* metapackages to base? :-)12:01
Kamion(minor problem installing them when they aren't on the CD)12:02
Kamionand adapt the other seeds too, probably12:02
Kamionmdz: you may want to adapt your ubuntu-meta update script to cope, if you haven't already12:04
=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-211-141.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionmdz: I might kill the install_restricted_modules function as well if you don't mind12:08
mdzKamion: sure12:10
mdzKamion: (to both)12:10
mdzKamion: the version of ubuntu-meta that went into the archive uses debootstrap as a filter for base, so as long as you don't add them to debootstrap, you're safe12:10
KamionI don't think linux-386 etc. ever went into a seed, slightly puzzled about how it's in the archive12:11
sivangjdub : around?12:12
mdzKamion: perhaps elmo massaged it, since I mentioned it to him around the time I was uploading it12:15
sivangseb128 : ping12:19
sivangseb128 : Could you briefly explain how does the yelp ubuntu package finds the documentation package? do they cross depend?12:22
seb128define "documentation package" please12:22
sivangseb128 : documentation package = where all the docs displayed by yelp are12:22
mdzsivang: /usr/share/omf12:23
seb128that's it :)12:23
sivangseb128 : what's the pkg name ? there must be a pacakge to put those files there :)12:23
seb128each gnome package has some omf file for example12:24
sivangmdz : tnx12:24
seb128and scrollkeeper-update is called in the postinst12:24
mdzsivang: are you working on #1205?12:24
mdzelmo_: if you don't have an opportunity to debug #2211, please arrange access for me or someone else12:25
sivangmdz : yes, but not only on :) I'd like to know also how to introduce new docs besides the offline "home page"12:29
mdzis bugzilla broken for anyone else?12:29
sivangmdz : yes12:29
mdzsivang: the home page would not be registered in yelp12:30
mdzbut if we are going to do an offline home page, it needs to be done today12:30
sivangmdz : are you putting it ubuntu-desktop ?12:30
mdzsivang: I do not have anything to put it in at the present time12:31
mdzs/it in/in it/12:31
mdzI can't get to anything at the DC12:31
sivangmdz : DC=?12:32
mdzdata centre12:32
mdzelmo_: ?12:32
jdubthe on-disk home page will live in ubuntu-artwork12:34
jdubi've hacked up a simple on12:34
sivangjdub : why don't you send it up to me, I'll add to it some ?12:36
sivangI can't even access ubuntu.com 12:37
sivangjdub : you know the address?12:37
mdzthom: ping?12:38
sivangjdub : thanks, I'll do a merge between our 2 versions and send it to you for approval?12:39
sivangmdz : regarding the dead line, that's strange. I understood from John Hornbeck that it's the 18th, is it?12:40
sivangmdz : sorry, this was meant to go to jdub :)12:41
sivangjdub : I was sure it had to be sometime closer, as the cd needs time to get pressed :)12:41
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sabdflelmo_: knows, has remote hands incoming to check12:49
sabdfli'm not too far if it needs someone onsite12:50
mdzthanks for checking12:50
mdzwhat kind of box is passing for a firewall over there?12:50
sabdfl2.4 kernel, hasn't been rebooted to 2.6 yet12:58
=== amu is now known as amU
sivangseb128 : for example, the gnome-user-guide get's instlled when I install the GNOME desktop ?01:05
sivangseb128 : or it's meta package for that matter.01:06
seb128it's in the desktop seed01:07
seb128meta package for what ?01:07
Kamionubuntu-desktop I imagine01:07
sabdflKamion: is the ubuntu-desktop package installed?01:08
sivangseb128 : just a though :) 01:08
sabdflmaybe a good idea is to have it but not install it?01:08
Kamionsabdfl: it's installed, yeah01:08
sabdflthat way someone can knee-jerk their system into a state of compliance, then get rid of it while they tune01:08
sivangseb128 : thought. Suppose you had a meta package for gnome (that includes all gnome's dependecies) 01:08
KamionI thought the point of it was to have it installed so people could use it to track by default01:08
Kamionthe system starts out in a state of compliance :-)01:09
sabdflwell... between releases it will only cause pain01:09
Kamioncertainly they can get rid of it01:09
Kamionhm, won't it help?01:09
Kamionhow can we reliably add new packages to desktop otherwise?01:09
sabdflit means they get TWO warnings when they override a default of ours01:09
sabdflone for the default, and one for ubuntu-desktop01:09
Kamionwhich is the other warning?01:09
sabdflsay they sub epiph and firefox01:09
jdubi'd kinda prefer an upgrade helper sort of thing01:09
jdubsabdfl: or worse fam/gamin, esound/polypaudio01:10
sabdflsure, but we used a metapackage as a stopgap for that01:10
sabdfljdub: yes01:10
Kamionhm, well, it's silly to have me in the position of advocating this, I'll let mdz do it :)01:10
sabdfla metapackage is nice because BLAM the system comes into compliance01:10
=== jdub wasn't entirely sure why we went for metapackage instead of sticking with tasks
sivangseb128 : could you tell me tha package name? seeds are menifested in a group of pkgs, if I recall right..01:11
sabdfli'm just asking questions, i could well be clueless here :-)01:11
mdzsabdfl: what's the second warning?01:11
Kamionnot installing by default is certainly easy IF we decide to go that way. I have no opinion really :)01:11
sabdflone when they remove the conflicting package, one because ubuntu-desktop will have to be removed too01:11
mdzjdub: so that users who upgrade receive new packages we add to the seeds01:11
jdubmdz: we could do that with aptitude install "~tubuntu-desktop", too01:12
mdzjdub: which you would know if you read ubuntu-devel :-P01:12
mdzjdub: the point is that it happens automatically01:12
sabdfli think an upgrade assistant for warty->hoary could be more subtle than a metapackage01:12
jdubmdz: well, i read that, but wasn't convinced01:12
Kamionhm, http://www.markshuttleworth.com/bounty.html is 403?01:12
mdzjdub: and is automatically turned off if they remove one of the packages we install01:12
sabdflkamion: ran out of cash01:12
seb128sivang: what do you want to install exactly ? aptitude install "~tubuntu-desktop" ?01:12
=== Kamion grins
mdzjdub: you should probably have followed up to the list, then01:12
sabdflprocess of moving to ubuntu bounties page01:13
elmo_somewhere there's a very rich jelly bean making company ...01:13
mdzelmo_: and dentists01:13
Kamionsabdfl: mmmkay, a friend asked me about it01:13
mdzor perhaps the dentists OWN the jellybean company...01:13
jdubelmo_: we should convince the jelly belly company to make jelly belly SCHNAAAAKEs01:13
=== Kamion tries not to laugh too loudly as he has somebody else sleeping in this room
sabdflKamion: should be back now, stooopid permissions problem01:14
Kamioncool, ta01:14
sivangmdz : what is the dead line for the webpage in hours from now? (I'm bad at translating UTC times)01:15
mdzsivang: as soon as possible01:16
nasdaq4088i just had an idea: why not allow companies to post bounties on ubuntu's web site for development of the os?01:16
sabdflnasdaq4088: willdo :-)01:16
sivangis ubuntu.com up already?01:17
sivangarchive is not letting me install too much :)01:17
sivang0% [Connecting to archive.ubuntu.com] 01:17
sivangand stays there01:17
Kamionsivang: it'll be up and down for a while apparently01:18
sivangKamion : ok. I'll continue to hope :)01:18
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 13 RC bugs to go
Kamion(upgraded #2136, will fix tomorrow, bed now)01:33
thommdz: ack01:34
thommdz: actually, please mail. going to bed now01:38
mdzthom: was just the "data center falling into the ocean" thing01:38
thomah, right01:39
sivangstill down01:42
mdzsivang: <Kamion> sivang: it'll be up and down for a while apparently01:56
=== lamont points at people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty.iso and looks for people with bandwidth to test the LiveCD.
=== |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangjdub : sent the html page?02:28
sivanganyone of the native english speaker, how do you refer to the life saver thingy that yelp is executed by clicking on?02:31
mdzlife preserver, or life saver02:32
sivangmdz : tnx :)02:33
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sivangi think there some bug with firefox, I just tried to save a web page locally - the gui presents the same icon for new dir and up one level02:41
sivanganyone seen that?02:41
jdubsivang: having network issues atm; if you have suggested content for it, send it over - i'll get it eventually02:43
sivangjdub : ok, no prob. I myself had a horroble DNS failure problem....:)02:43
danielsKamion: with the acx, you need to explicitly set key off before it will associate03:19
danielsKamion: you may also need to set a nickname before it will send data down (it will associate but not do data, e.g. dhcp -- bong)03:19
bob2daniels: did your wireless Just Work, btw/03:19
danielsbob2: the Atheros? once out of the installer, yeah03:22
bob2ah, cool.03:22
danielsyes siree, this laptop is all about Just Working03:23
lamontfew more minutes and I can go fetch my (hopefully good) liveCD attempt03:26
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 11 RC bugs to go
m_tthewlamont: it tanked on me, unable to mount rootfs, I am getting a log for you now03:28
lamontI think03:28
m_tthewsorry to bear bad news :)03:29
lamontOTOH, once I have the image on the local machine, the rsync's should go faster... :-)03:29
lamonthrm. no doko around03:38
=== lamont bbiab - fetching a CD.
bob2hm, .au isn't the canonical bandwidth ghetto anymore03:41
jdubjust canberra03:41
bob2I have dsl now, foo'03:41
danielsyes, but all you can access is news about the Melbourne Olympics :P03:44
m_tthewlamont: I know this is suboptimal, but I am a fool who does not know how to get grub to talk to the serial port:04:15
m_tthewlamont: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/tmp/warty-livecd-2004-10-11-lamont1.png04:15
bob2daniels: that dawn fraser chick, whew!04:16
sivangjdub : apart from the web page which must be completed today, the reworking of gnome manual is dued by the 18th ?04:39
dokolamont: morning04:56
danielscan everyone please try gnome-volume-manager from http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/g-v-m/ with cameras?05:00
danielsit should now work with both crazy-proprietary and usb mass storage cameras05:00
danielsand with USB MS, it should just pop up to the right folder automatically05:00
lamontdoko: remind me what I need to change to make gcc-3.3 build libgcc1 again?05:07
dokohuh, why that?05:10
lamontbootstrapping something05:10
lamontfrom the "go back to where you first got the job" school of bootstrapping... :-)05:10
dokoon which architecture?05:11
lamontm_tthew: hrm... seemed to boot OK for me... Now to see which disk its on...05:11
lamontheh.  My login works -> booted from real root.05:11
lamontm_tthew: well, that's more consistant anyway.  sigh.05:12
lamonttime to track down alex05:13
danielsif anyone wants to test g-v-m, you'll need to killall gnome-volume-manager && gnome-volume-manager, fwiw05:17
dokodaniels: the only mass storage device I have is a usb stick ...05:18
m_tthewlamont: let me know if there is anything I can do05:19
danielsdoko: you can simulate a camera pretty easily ;) mkdir -p /media/sda1/dcim/100g-v-m, and put some jpegs in there05:19
danielsi'd like to get testing with both usb mass storage cameras (of which I've tested two) and non-mass-storage cameras05:20
sivangjdub : send to jdub AT perkypents.org 05:23
danielsperkypents, or perkypants? :)05:24
sivangdaniels : does it really matter ? :)05:25
sivangdaniels : you happen to do something with Ubuntu's hdparm support? who has it anyways?05:26
danielssivang: it probably matters who you mail it to, yeah ...05:27
danielssivang: for laptops, Thom has the acpi-support package05:27
lamontdoko: ia6405:28
lamontm_tthew: unless you can cause alex to appear, not much.05:28
lamontOTOH, with the ISO here, I can rsync happier...05:28
sivangdaniels : i am not sure what sort of problem this is, but although I have throughly drilled through hdparm and checked everything, Ubuntu on my 8200 inspiron frequnetly comes to a complete halt, performance wise. fauly hardware?05:28
danielssivang: no idea, sorry05:29
sivangi sent to perkypants05:29
dokolamont: build logs anywhere?05:30
sivangnighters everybody05:30
lamontdoko: well, the gcc-3.4 build I have times out in 'Running chapter c9' of the acats tests (I guess disabling the tests would be a good start...)05:34
dokodefinitely better than downgrading libgcc1. I don't know how the kernel on debian's buildd is configured, so that it doesn't time out.05:37
lamontdebian buildd is running 2.4.25-dsa, my ia64 box is running 2.4.19...05:39
lamontand in sarge of jun 28.05:39
lamonter, sid, that is05:39
lamontmaybe I'll just get a reasonably current kernel on my machine, eh?05:40
dokolamont: worth a try, however sent a patch for you05:46
lamontdoko: cool.  Rebooting now05:46
lamontand crossing digits, since I don't want to have to go hook up a monitor to the beast...05:46
fabbionemorning guys05:54
danielsfabbione: hey dude05:56
fabbionehey daniels05:58
fabbionei feel like shit today06:01
fabbionei think i have a bit of fever06:04
fabbioneor something like that06:04
lamontdoko: at the risk of sounding stupid... I just drop that file into debian/patches?06:05
dokoand add it to debian/rules.patch.06:06
doko(however the patch is untested)06:06
danielsmdz: ping06:11
danielsfabbione: ping06:11
=== daniels glares at mdz's connection.
lamontmake: *** No rule to make target `stamps/02-patch-stamp-disable-gnat-testsuite.d06:31
lamonthrm.  clearlly missing something here..06:31
dokolamont: in debian/rules.patch: debian_patches += disable-gnat-testsuite (without .dpatch)06:42
fabbioneUnpacking replacement ssh ...06:56
fabbionedpkg: error processing /mirrors/debian.org/pool/main/o/openssh/ssh_3.8.1p1-8.sarge.1_i386.deb (--unpack):06:56
fabbione trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/ssh', which is also in package openssh-client06:56
fabbionedpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)06:56
fabbioneKamion: i guess that's a known problem06:56
hornbeckjdub: I have the file that sivang worked with, would you like me to message it07:04
hornbeckfix the spelling?07:04
=== lamont heads to bed
=== lamont will be working .au tz tomorrow, btw.
danielslamont: good plan07:12
danielsexcept for the fact that none of the Australians are working .au TZ ;)07:12
jdubi am07:19
hornbeckjdub: you are fixing it?07:20
jdubi am running on .au tz07:26
jdubwhat am i fixing?07:26
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hornbeckjdub: sivang sent you a file?07:26
hornbeckI have a currected version of it, would you like me to send it to you?07:27
hornbeckwhat address do you want it at?07:28
jdubjeff.waugh@canonical.com  please07:29
hornbeckon its way07:29
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Kamionsivang: in British English we'd call it a "lifebelt"09:29
Kamiondaniels: ugh, BONG. shame there's no wireless-tools in the installer, eh?09:29
Kamionfabbione: that's a downgrade, dude => not supported09:30
Kamionhey, there *is* a wireless-tools-udeb, mind09:30
Kamionmaybe I do have it after all09:30
sivangKamion : Now this is a delayed response ;-) They are usually so good coming from you - not to believe I asked it before I went to sleep ..:)09:31
Kamionsivang: you asked it after I went to sleep, more to the point09:32
Kamion01:31 < sivang> anyone of the native english speaker, how do you refer to the life saver thingy that yelp is executed by clicking on?09:32
Kamion00:33 < Kamion> (upgraded #2136, will fix tomorrow, bed now)09:33
sivangright :-) Well, I usually turn off the machine so I don't get the pleasure of what's going on after I fall asleep.09:33
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangKamion : too bad the home page offline version is already sent to jdub, and I don't have the sources here..09:34
sabdflmorning all09:35
sivangmorning sabdfl 09:36
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangKamion : interesting you refer to it as a "belt". In hebrew it's something like a "life saving wheel"09:37
sivangKamion : hebrew is strange, however when I think of lifebelt, somehow I get the picture of something elastic , rather than firm and solid like the lifebelt09:38
Kamionsivang: "life preserver" will be understood09:40
sivangKamion : I'll modify it - good there are USB sticks, and someone who made them work well in Ubuntu 09:42
Kamiondaniels: still can't get it to associate as far as I can tell, though :(09:43
=== |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsKamion: hmmm, what variant of acx100? i had to go through a couple of drivers using ndiswrapper09:50
danielswell, for acx11109:50
sabdfl(08:48:55) mdz: tech board meeting is going to be very fast unless you have something to bring up09:55
sabdfl(08:49:22) mdz: "release tomorrow lots to do kthxbye"09:55
sabdfl(08:53:13) sabdfl: i think the schedule is actually community council meeting this week09:55
sabdfl(08:53:39) sabdfl: was going to invite tech board to participate and have you sign off on the release process with the cc09:55
sabdfl(08:53:42) sabdfl: sound ok?09:55
sabdfl(08:53:52) sabdfl: will have a release process drafted for the meeting09:55
Kamiondaniels: um. how do I tell? :)09:55
danielsKamion: whatever it says on the box09:55
sabdflKamion: would today's daily have the lspci update for my test ipw2200 card?09:55
Kamiondaniels: it's a US Robotics card, not much in the way of labelling09:55
Kamionsabdfl: probably not, since discover1-data is in the initrd09:56
Kamionunless elmo's up VERY early09:56
danielsKamion: ah. when you do lspci, is it acx100, or acx111?09:56
Kamionrebooting now to check09:57
sivangsabdfl : when is the CC meeting scheduled?09:57
sabdfl1600 UTC09:57
sivangsabdfl : uhm..today ? :)09:59
sabdflevery tuesday we have a tech board or cc meeting09:59
sabdflunless we don't :-)09:59
sivangyou had last tuesday?09:59
sivangoh :-)09:59
sivangand TB?09:59
Kamiondid we have a tech board meeting last week? I think I missed it10:00
sivangKamion : I revised , and resent. thanks for the english know how :)10:00
mdzI thought CC was last week and TB was this week10:00
mdzbut the email is out now, so CC it is :-)10:01
sivangI propuse to write down dates and time on the CC wiki page, just o avoid confusion :)10:01
Kamionsivang: I did say "British English"; mdz is a more reliable speaker of American English than I am10:02
Kamiontwo countries separated by a common language, and all that10:02
mdztwo countries separated by the atlantic ocean...10:02
sivangKamio : yep, I now recalled he also told me about the "life preserver"10:03
mdzto my credit, I provided both alternatives10:03
sivangmdz : yes you did ;-)10:03
Kamionmdz: neither of which I'd use in British :)10:03
mdzKamion: what do you call them?10:03
Kamionmdz: "lifebelt"10:03
=== mdz rolls his eyes
mdzdaniels: then what do you call a life jacket?10:03
Kamiondaniels: "Texas Instruments ACX 100 22Mbps Wireless Interface", 104c:840010:04
Kamiondaniels: it so isn't a jacket :)10:04
sivanglifejacke is again, somethign elastic, extendable to fit person's size10:04
danielsyou guys are talking about a seatbelt?10:04
Kamionno, an inflatable ring10:04
sivangthe wheel is stiff 10:04
mdznot inflatable, but buoyant10:04
danielsyou mean, an inflatable ring :)10:04
=== sivang enjoys the english insights he absorbs here
sivangbuoyant = stiff ?10:05
danielsbuoyant = floats10:05
sivangI don't even want to try imagine how you pronounce that 10:05
mdzok, time to sleep before CC meeting, good night10:07
sivangsabdfl : is it late now to add stuff to the agenda?10:07
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pittiMorning seb128!10:08
sabdflsivang: go ahead, i might move them to the next meeting or handle them today10:08
sivangmdz : night10:08
pittimdz: good night10:08
sivangsabdfl : ok, tnx10:09
danielsKamion: ah, acx100 ... hm, unsure.  but you might need to give ndiswrapper a shot; i never had much luck with that driver.10:09
Kamionmdz: commented on #2284 in reply to you10:09
sabdflnight mdz10:09
Kamiondaniels: ah well, ignoring then since I have no plans to make ndiswrapper work in d-i10:10
sabdflKamion: please ping me as soon as ipw2200 is testable by me10:10
Kamionsabdfl: OK, will be later today10:10
danielsKamion: fair enough10:10
danielsKamion: oh, you did do ifconfig interfacename up, right?10:13
Kamiondaniels: I let netcfg do that10:15
Kamionsame goes for 'ifup wlan0' outside the installer10:15
Kamionactually, it does claim to associate10:24
Kamionit just doesn't DHCP10:24
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pittiHi mvo! Nice to see you again!11:17
sivangmdz : I understand that today's is final date for submission of docs and others - as tommorow is RC. And after RC there would be no more changes allowed right? (except for security patches, and act of gods)11:22
sivangor acts of gods :)11:22
mvohi pitti. I'm back from university land :)11:27
fabbioneKamion: that was updating sid ;)11:31
=== fabbione still feels like shit today
sivangfabbione : what's wrong?11:32
fabbionesivang: a lot of headacke and a bit of fever11:33
Kamionfabbione: you must have had openssh-client installed from experimental, then11:33
fabbionei just woke up but i am going to lay in bed soon again11:33
Kamion(or warty)11:33
Kamionfabbione: openssh-client has never been in sid11:33
fabbioneKamion: yes. experimental 11:33
Kamionwell then, not supported :)11:33
sivangfabbione : oh, I've known those too well by now - still not over my dizziness, the last remains of my latest virus catch. :)11:34
Kamionfabbione: (if you're going to use openssh-client from experimental, use ssh from experimental as well)11:34
fabbioneKamion: yup i did a "dist upgrade" but it didn't pull in ssh or openssh-server.11:35
fabbioneKamion: but later i did a mess myself.. reasonf of the informal message here ;)11:36
fabbionerburton: instead of opening a new bug, please reopen the old one ;)11:37
rburtonfabbione: i tried, but couldn't find it :(  i'll duplicate/reopen if you can tell me the number...11:37
fabbionerburton: how was to reproduce the problem?11:40
fabbioneleft alt + ?11:40
fabbionei can never remember these things11:40
rburtonfabbione: windows key + arrows, i've configured metacity to use super for keyboard shortcuts11:41
fabbionerburton: there is also a metacity update11:46
rburtonah ok11:46
fabbioneare you sure metacity didn't fry your settings?11:46
rburtonthat shouldn't have broken it11:46
fabbionejust asking for info ;)11:46
rburtonyeah, if it reset the settings then super would do nothing11:46
fabbionethe SUper is the RWIN or LWIN?11:48
rburtonboth i believe, but i use left11:49
fabbionedaniels: i saw that patch and i think we can stick it in X11:49
rburtonhm, rwin is compose for me atm11:49
rburtonhandy, but i wasn't expecting that ;)11:49
rburtonoh, i set it last week.11:49
fabbioneif i push rwin it always pushes to the first desktop :-)11:49
danielsfabbione: cool.  have you got any other pending changes, or should I just upload with this?11:50
fabbionedaniels: there might be a regression.. 228811:50
fabbionedaniels: if you want to take care of it before uploading11:51
Kamionbugger, I need to change rootskel11:51
rburtonfabbione: my /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/switch_to_workspace_down (etc) gconf keys are "<Mod4>Down" etc11:51
danielsfabbione: ok11:52
fabbionedaniels, rburton: hold on11:53
Kamionreview of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=436 please?11:56
Kamion(works for me in tests)11:56
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionerburton: which layout do you use?12:01
rburtonfabbione: gb12:02
fabbionedaniels: i leave it up to.. i add Denis in CC, but i am off.. too much headacke12:02
fabbionerburton: try to check the changelog and see if there is anything that can tickle your brain12:03
fabbionerburton: as root of the regression12:03
fabbionelater.. or tomorrow guys12:03
fabbionesorry but i am not too useful today12:03
sivanglaterz fabbione, get well soon!12:04
thomtake care mate12:04
rburtoni can't see anything obvious, unless the port from trunk had extra changes12:06
danielsfabbione: hope it all sorts itself out soon12:07
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdflKamion: think we can build canidates for RC1 today? then get feedback so MDZ and Tech Board can sign off on it this evening?12:16
sabdflmirror tonight, then announce tomorrow am?12:16
danielsKamion: so how long do I have to upload XFree86? :)12:19
Kamionsabdfl: it's going to be waiting on a d-i initrd rebuild, and I haven't got approval for the rootskel change that predates it yet, so I still don't know12:19
Kamiondaniels: ASAP please, dunno exactly12:19
danielsKamion: yeah, I'll hopefully clear it in the next 30min12:19
Kamionsabdfl: I really needed to know about this plan yesterday12:19
sabdflrootskel? /etc/default/skel?12:20
Kamionno, rootskel, equivalent of base-files for d-i12:20
sabdflKamion: plan isn't set, tell me what you want12:20
sabdfli'm drafting a plan right now, thumbsucking for bits of it, open to your guidance12:20
KamionI was expecting to have tomorrow's daily be RC1 and to have a round of testing tomorrow morning before release12:20
KamionI'll need to have lamont kick off a manual d-i rebuild today before that though12:21
Kamionor maybe just upload debian-installer again, since I'll probably need to update disk space estimates again12:22
Kamionthere's also #1232 with a load of d-i translation updates pending12:22
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=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburtonis there an archive of old packages available? i need metacity from last week12:28
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=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-7-49.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128grrr, my connection went down for 2 hours again12:44
mjg59The logo on bugzilla still has nasty compression artifacts12:45
rburtonnearly as bad as the default XP wallpaper12:46
elmo_who did the last linux-source upload?12:47
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mjg59Oh, are we supporting NTFS resizing?12:48
pittiseb128: welcome back :-)12:48
pittiseb128: need IP tunneling over letter doves?12:48
seb128need a good isp12:51
thomelmo_: herbert did12:52
elmo_thom: duh, i wanted someone I could harass on IRC :p12:53
thomblame Mithrandir 12:53
=== sjoerd [~sjoerd@fire.ipv6.luon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionelmo_: oh, I meant to harass mdz about that last night01:00
Kamionmjg59: not in the installer, yet01:01
Kamionmjg59: it's in Debian but it was a very late change for us and too scary01:01
mjg59But resizable FAT?01:02
Kamionuh, if parted can do it?01:02
KamionI haven't checked, I must confess01:02
mjg59Parted can do it, yeah01:04
Kamionshould Just Work then01:04
=== Kamion is still looking for review of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=436 for upload
danielsKamion: looks good to me01:16
Kamion(powerpc is not mentioned in that patch because get_arch_kernel always returns a kernel on the CD there)01:19
thomcan someone review http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/thunderbird-dexul.diff please01:22
thomfix for https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=193301:22
danielsthom: i can't see any obvious problems, but don't know enough about it (don't even use it) to properly review, sorry01:25
Kamionbit of a scary lack of quoting?01:25
Kamion(i.e. find "$PATHLIST")01:25
KamionI'd be inclined to use find -print0 | xargs -0 too but that's maybe just me01:25
Kamionstill, it looks functionally correct to me01:27
pittithom: I don't understand this: -e 's,Path=/,/,' -e "s,Path=,$HOME/.mozilla-thunderbird/,"01:27
pittithom: first you remove 'Path=', then you substitute it with sth?01:27
Kamionmight be worth trying out that sed on something that contains no Path= lines at all to make sure it doesn't fall over01:27
thomKamion: it's been in firefox's script since forever01:28
thomi'm just transplanting to thunderbird01:28
pittithom: is "s,Path=,$HOME/.mozilla-thunderbird/," ever applied?01:29
thompitti: yes, because in most case the path is relative, not absolute01:29
thomie, Path=ey9ogb7w.default01:29
pittithom: ah, now I understand. This shall filter out absolute paths and only use relative ones.01:30
thomthe first expression deals with the Path=/home/thom/.mozilla-thunderbird/...01:30
Kamionpitti: well, it uses both01:30
danielsExtracting source xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz ... 01:30
danielszcat: xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error01:30
danielszcat: xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--length error01:30
=== T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittithom: now I've got it. Takes a while...01:32
pittithom: can you please use -print0 for find and -0 for xargs?01:33
pittithom: it's pathetic, I know, but it's not much effort to do it absolutely safe01:33
thom(sorry, typing break)01:36
thomyeah, will do01:36
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 10 RC bugs to go
danielsover half a year on, the fact that all the X macros to do with extensions make the data pointer named 'stuff' still unnerves me01:37
danielsthe entirety of Xext and other various server-side things to do with extensions deal entirely with pointers named 'stuff'01:39
danielsthat was what I called the directory full of games and MP3s in year 7 so no-one would find it01:39
KamionMP3s *existed* in your year 7?01:40
=== Kamion feels old
danielsyeah, and I was using IRC to trade them :)01:40
danielsh4x0r3d mIRC into there, got on Undernet channels and then set up our own channel in which we all traded MP3s amongst ourselves on the local LAN01:41
danielsit was quite the sophisticated operation01:41
danielswrecked only when the admins started wondering why the size of the year 7 home directories had exploded in the last month01:41
thomman, so many of these fricking mozilla-* bugs are broken profiles01:41
thomjdub_: can i upload 2280; i've done exactly what seb told me to do ;-)01:43
seb128thom: have tyou tested the package to be sure ? Just right click on a html file in nautilus and see if firefox is here01:44
thomseb128: yeah01:45
seb128ok, cool01:47
pittidaniels: will you upload #1292 today?01:48
mjg59daniels: Is it worth thinking about making swcursor the default?01:51
danielspitti: yeah01:58
danielspitti: about to do it now01:58
danielsmjg59: are there really that many issues?01:58
pittidaniels: fine, because I also have to do a g-v-m upload01:59
danielspitti: ah01:59
seb128hum, time to lunch, bbl02:03
mjg59daniels: I've seen several. Don't we end up using software cursors for the translucency anyway?02:03
Kamioncan somebody eyeball http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/cdrom-checker.diff for me?02:04
Kamionwithout it, cdrom-checker only works in expert mode02:04
danielsi think there are a couple of problems with swcursor, also02:04
Kamionunfortunately I only noticed today :-/02:04
danielsi'm not really happy with doing it this late in the game, also02:04
Kamioncdrom-checker isn't on the default installation path so I think raising the priorities must be safe02:05
danielspersonally, I think the best thing to do is do like savage, where we just blacklist specific cards unless either sw or hw is specified02:05
pittidaniels: if you have a minute, can you please take a look at the proposed patch in #2169?02:07
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-78.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thomKamion: oh, hey. os-prober doesn't seem to find my XP install, but only on the amd64 installer, not the x86 one02:07
Kamionthom: ur. forgot to make some amd64->i386 symlinks, I think02:09
danielspitti: bong. unreproducible.02:09
Kamionbollocks, ok, will look today02:09
daniels(waits for the component selector to load)02:09
danielspitti: looks goo dto me; if it works, i'd say upload02:10
pittidaniels: unreproducible? Odd02:10
pittidaniels: I get windows for all mounted volumes as soon as I do /etc/init.d/dbus-1 restart02:10
danielsyeah, I was looking at the title at the time02:11
pittidaniels: BTW, we have to coordinate this; both you and me want to upload ubuntu4 :-)02:11
danielsonce I read it fully, it was OK :) i thought it was to do with hotplugging, not restarting hal02:11
danielspitti: you asked me to upload g-v-m (sort of implicitly), so I already did :)02:12
pittidaniels: okay, then I will change the changelog to ubuntu5 and wait for your version02:12
danielspitti: the accepted message has already gone to warty-changes02:12
pittijdub_: still here? If so, can you please approve #2169? daniels reviewed it, I tested it extensively02:12
pittidaniels: oh, didn't read my mail in the last 10 minutes :-)02:13
lamontKamion: I can do the manual run, but it'll add that pesky extra digit to the date...02:14
Kamionlamont: let's not worry for now, I have some other changes anyway02:15
thomhrm, compiling firefox , thunderbird and apache2 all at once does bad things to machine usability02:15
=== thom goes to tidy room or have lunch or something
lamontKamion: cool.  I'll be out for the next several hours, back about 2200 GMT or so.02:15
lamontthere is a remote chance that I can get online, but I rather doubt it.02:16
lamontmorning t-bone02:20
=== lamont kicks his i2000
T-Bonehey lamont ;)02:20
lamonttime to haul it outside and take an airhose to it. :-(02:20
lamontI don't think I get to do any builds on it this morning, and I need to leave shortly02:21
T-Bonelamont: haven't got much time to check what went wrong with those packages lately either, alas02:21
lamontit made it about 90 minutes into the gcc-3.4 build for me last night before the machine died.02:22
lamontI think it may be time to sync everything from the i2000 to the zx2000 :-)02:22
T-Bonefortunately i hadn't had such troubles with my gcc build, once i tweaked a bit. But the fact is that some core packages are screwed with that dir.gz file02:23
lamontyeah - no clue why that was there...02:23
lamontor something like that...02:23
T-Bonelamont: yeah, i can do that, but i'm afraid that it will be there again during stage 202:24
T-Boneiirc, hppa didn't show that.02:24
T-Bone(though i couldn't build gcc-3.4 on hppa :( )02:24
lamontthat reminds me... I need to find a friendly person at ftc to send my dead A500 to ggg02:24
lamontor throw it in the car next month. :-)02:24
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=== lamont wonders if we could spit the universe into quadrants, so that the &*^)^ Packages file would be smaller.
=== thom pokes lamont about pa-risc, kit
thomuh, no idea where that comment came from02:32
thomyeah. the much mentioned pa risc box :-)02:33
lamontoh. that.02:33
=== lamont goes to change the topic...
lamont [Topic]  + | Airlift of parisc box needed in London - see lamont02:34
lamontof course, I won't be around to see what discussion that stirrs up..02:35
lamontanyway, I'm off for several hours.02:37
T-Bonelamont: see ya later or tomorrow then02:37
carlosWhat's the multiverse archive?02:51
pitticarlos: equivalent no Debian's non-free02:58
pitticarlos: unsupported Non-DFSG02:58
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KeybukBug#268886: dpkg: Problem with dutch translation, south-african text appears in it03:06
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=== amU is now known as amu
amu..ooOOO oh my god, 211 users at #ubuntu 03:27
thommy gosh, how can anyone get anything useful done with gui mail clients?03:41
Kamion-"Language-Team:  <debian-l10n-greek@lists.debian.org>\n"03:42
Kamion+"Language-Team: Greece\n"03:42
Kamionwhat sort of an entry is that?03:42
Keybukan Olympic one?03:43
Kamionand the Greek translator is gratuitously changing translations whose msgid hasn't changed, just so that they'll be more work for me to merge later, as far as I can tell03:43
=== Kamion sighs and uploads anyway, it being more work to take the patch apart and reduce it to the minimal subset
Keybukheh, I just generally used to ask translators to provide entire .po files, or nothing03:46
Keybukresolving 3-way diffs when you don't know the language ... is interesting03:46
Kamiondoko has assembled the tarballs provided by the translations into patches03:46
KamionI'm just applying them03:46
Kamion(but yes, I know what you mean, and that's precisely the pain that's going to arrive in force come the Hoary merge)03:47
=== eniac [~jonas@cable-] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybuktell me about it03:48
thomhoary is gonna be no fun for a while i think :/03:48
Kamionyou misspelled "total nightmare of death"03:48
=== Kamion sends a note to #1232 to forestall further pain
thomi vote we blame keybuk03:49
Keybukare you using msgmerge to merge the .po files?03:49
Kamionme? I'm using patch right now03:49
Kamionin general, I'm doing whatever debconf-updatepo does, which involves intltool-debian not gettext as far as I know03:50
Keybuk*nods* there's intltool-merge which should do *something* useful03:50
Keybukthough I don't think (usefully) that can do po files to po files03:51
=== elmo [~james@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Keybuk has been playing with some "merge the fuckers" recipies
danielsKeybuk: finish hct, yesterday03:52
Kamionbig chunks of d-i are about to become real good tests for you03:52
Keybukdaniels: am working as fast as I can :)03:53
KeybukKamion: once d-i is on arch.ubuntu.com, we can have a play with that03:53
danielsare the london buses really called 'root master'??03:53
Keybukdaniels: the ones with the spiral stairs at the back are called "Routemaster"03:53
KamionKeybuk: lifeless has had all the details for a while now03:54
danielsoh man03:54
danielsthat is too funny03:54
Keybukevery other time I go to London, they've either been put back on the roads due to amazing public opinion03:54
lifelessits high on my todo, but we've had some trouble :[03:54
Keybukand the next time all withdrawn again because they're unsafe and impossible for the disabled to use03:54
rburtonthey should all die03:54
danielsi like the hop-on, hop-off idea03:54
danielsi also like the fact that they're called 'root master'03:55
danielsrburton: dude, if the London bus chief dude wanted to say 'route', he would've said 'route'03:55
rburtonslam-door trains should also die a slow and painful death03:55
danielsbut he was quite clearly saying 'root' :)03:55
rburtondaniels: you, sir, can't speak03:55
Kamion "????????? IP          = $[ipaddress}\n"03:55
Kamion "M???? ???????         = ${netmask}\n"03:55
Kamion "???? ???????          = ${gateway}\n"03:55
Kamion-"Point-to-Point        = {pointtopoint}\n"03:55
Kamion+"Point-to-Point        = ${pointtopoint}\n"03:55
Kamiongeez, either fix it all or don't fix any of it03:55
Keybukrburton: what's wrong with slam-doors ?!03:58
Keybukthey hardly *ever* break down, unlike the new things that replaced them03:58
Keybukthey have ample leg and seat room, unlike the new things that replaced them03:58
thomKeybuk: you funny03:58
rburtonyou clearly don't use them often03:58
Keybukand, more importantly, you can't door-surf on the new trains03:58
Keybukrburton: used to every day03:59
rburtonKeybuk: the new new ones are really nice, but only a few routes in the south east have them03:59
daniels... door-surf?03:59
Keybukdaniels: "slam-door" trains just have ordinary doors03:59
Keybukwith no locks03:59
rburtonas long as you have really bendy arms04:00
rburtonKeybuk: they are often very cold in winter though04:00
Keybukthe deterrant to stop you opening them at full-speed is that you have to stick your hand out of the window to open them (the handle is on the outside)04:00
Keybukbut you can have fun04:00
Keybukas you come into a station, open the door, and swing out on it04:00
Keybukso the door's at 90 to the train, and you ride on the door04:00
rburtonKeybuk: for fun, some trains have catches on the inside04:01
Keybukit's also fun if people aren't "standing behind the yellow line"04:01
Keybukbecause they get a door in their face04:01
Keybukrburton: yeah, the Waterloo line ones did, didn't they?04:01
danielsKeybuk: haha04:01
rburtonKeybuk: i'd say half of the trains from london bridge have inside handles04:01
danielsyour trains are so very quaint04:02
=== Keybuk likes slam door trains
danielshave you considered a real PT system some day? :)04:02
rburtondaniels: slam door trains are a relic, and being replaced04:02
Keybukinterestingly, did you know that no model railway company makes them in OO guage?04:02
danielsrburton: that's a start ...04:02
Keybukrburton: we still need a real PT system though04:03
danielspitti: please see the new comments on #129204:03
danielsany PT system that includes something called a 'rootmaster' is alright by me, though :)04:04
=== Keybuk roots daniels
Kamion$ filterdiff -i \*/partman-md-\* lang-updates1.diff | patch -p7 -d ~/src/ubuntu/partman-md/partman-md-11ubuntu104:05
Kamionhow did people ever get by without patchutils?04:05
pittidaniels: odd, this works fine for me without any reconfiguration04:05
danielsKeybuk: i'm so finding a new roommate for Spain04:05
danielspitti: i think his problem is that he's missing the %h04:06
thomKamion: how did we leave it out of main for so long?04:06
KeybukKamion: ediff, man!04:06
Kamionthat would imply the Dark Side04:06
pittidaniels: probably. maybe the wrapper script should check that $1 is nonempty04:06
Kamionnot to mention not using a shell04:06
danielspitti: yeah, don't think it's hugely important for warty, though04:06
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 11 RC bugs to go
Kamionhelp with #1971 appreciated ...04:39
danielsKamion: i'd want dmesg04:46
Kamiondaniels: so would I, but it's kinda hard without a keyboard04:47
danielswithout more info, it's really hard04:49
sabdflelmo: could you thom me the private key for 01.pem please?04:55
=== T-Bone is now known as T-Gone
=== thom sulks
thomverbing that is totally unfair :-)04:55
danielsi think we should verb that for any accidental disclosure of any form04:56
danielsas in, 'whoops, I just thommed that to #ubuntu'04:56
sabdflguys, i'm very excited for this release!04:57
danielsi'm excited about the release process04:58
danielsthe longer we stay in it, the longer we get to avoid syncing hoary :)04:58
thomdaniels: you're just not used to having a release process, kde boy04:58
danielsi wonder how much bandwidth we'll burn through, given the phenomenonal interest with the preivew04:59
sabdfli think we should delay syncing hoary, take a break and set hoary feature goals and priorities, then come back to the packaging05:00
sabdflhopefully with some tools to make it a bit easier05:00
danielsmy biggest fear is that we come back to some painful upstream version drift, so it's not just reapplying patches05:00
KamionI'm worried about spending too long *without* syncing hoary, personally05:01
danielsbut I don't think GNOME will be a problem ;) and it looks like that would be the biggest pain05:01
KamionI think we need to get started on that ASAP05:01
Kamioncertainly we'll be spending a while on support ...05:02
danielswe already have the most up-to-date GNOME, and once we get X out of the way ... my god, there are two massive sync nightmares gone05:03
danielsyeah, that looks painful05:03
sabdflhmm... new kernel gives a weird menu.lst:05:03
sabdfltitle           Ubuntu, kernel
sabdflroot            (hd0,0)05:03
sabdflkernel          /boot/vmlinuz- root=/dev/hda1 ro quiet splash05:03
Kamionupdate-grub called at wrong time? dunno ...05:04
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lifeless [~robertc@dsl-] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== daniels stares at The Age -- 'Inside were a bodyboard and the plastic bag of cannabis, which measured about one metre by acme and was packaged in a vacuum-sealed Space bag.'
elmoyeah, I saw that at the DC, it seems to run update-grub twice - once when the .dpkg-tmp file is still there05:06
danielsthat's not mertic :)05:06
danielsmetric, either05:06
sabdflelmo: yes, it passes. interesting05:07
danielsseb128: ping -- please see #1292 wrt changing preferences05:08
seb128pong, ok05:08
danielsthanks dude05:09
=== daniels -> bed
seb128'night daniels 05:10
thomnight dude05:11
danielsspam with a subject of ' %Please *contact m+e'05:14
danielsit's like running ls in an arch dir :P05:14
danielssorry, 2534     Oct 12 Mary Jessi      (   0) % Pls ^contact *me+05:15
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pittiYeah, my network is back05:21
Kamionfabbione: have fun with #2299 :-/05:23
Kamionthom: mozilla-firefox-locale-{es,gl} are uninstallable, if you hadn't noticed05:28
thomKamion: yeah05:29
=== Kamion desperately attempts to keep up with Herbert's kernel builds
elmohmm, anyone know a good way to get the URLs of a given website? like determine the site-map from the outside05:36
elmoeh? google?05:37
Kamiongoogle some-common-term site:whatever05:37
Kamionit's about the best you're going to do in general, I'd imagine05:38
elmooh, I was more thinking wget -r or linkchecker or something - but I guess google'd work 05:38
Kamiondoes the site publish directory listings?05:39
KamionI suppose you could run a spider over it if it's fully linked05:39
=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-137-97.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionsorry, I'm probably thinking in slightly too general terms05:40
seb128elmo: apparently jbailey has uploaded ximian-connector 2.0 in debian several time but not trace of the upload ... any idea of what's happening ?05:42
=== Kamion doesn't see any trace of it on newraff ...
elmoseb128: what kamion said - it's not in any of katie's log files05:44
seb128<jbailey> Yes, same as I upload my other packages.05:45
seb128<jbailey> No idea why this one hasn't worked despite being uploaded twice.05:45
elmoOct  8 14:46:44 ximian-connector_2.0.1-1_i386.changes isn't signed with PGP/GnuPG05:45
elmoOct  8 14:46:44 Removing ximian-connector_2.0.1-1_i386.changes, but keeping its associated files for now.05:45
seb128oh, Jeff probably got the mails05:45
seb128the uploader get nothing in this case ...05:45
seb128elmo: thanks05:46
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sabdflANNOUNCEMENT: Community Council meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes05:58
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mdzpitti: are you here?06:33
pittimdz: yes06:33
mdzpitti: could you look at #957?06:33
pittimdz: sure06:33
mdzpitti: I'm sure there's a simple fix once the right code is located, and it'd be very nice to get rid of that dialog for the RC06:33
pittimdz: I will look after this06:34
pittimdz: by now we just disable the dialog, not the cause, right?06:35
mdzpitti: correct, just stop displaying it06:35
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mdzpitti: thanks06:35
mdzpitti: hopefully you can reproduce it; it doesn't happen on my desktop06:35
pittimdz: I can, it happens every time on my iBook06:35
carlosthom: http://nave.hispalinux.es/productos/firefox/1.0/descargas/firefox-1.0-es-ES.xpi06:36
thomdude, 0.906:36
carlosthom: is it what you need?06:36
thombut ok06:36
thomi can dig on that06:36
thomcarlos: thanks06:37
carlosthom: seems like there isn't a 0.9 release06:37
thomyeah, that's exactly the problem :(06:38
thom1.0 is too different06:38
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carlosthom: I think there was an es-AR translation for 0.9, but I don't know the quality of it, but it's better than nothing...06:40
pittiseb128, mdz: I have a fix and patched package for #957 ready, it is building07:03
pittiseb128: Hi, welcome back07:04
pittiseb128: mdz asked me to fix #957, since it is kind of urgent and you were absent07:04
=== thom tests current netboot
seb128pitti: was testing the news GNOME 2.8.1 packages, so restarting my GNOME and since I use xchat ...07:06
seb128pitti: thanks for working on this one, I've not real idea of what /dev/pmu is and not box to test07:07
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
pittiseb128: oh, no problem. I've got a powerpc and /dev/pmu is the analogon to apm on i38607:07
carlosseb128: think on it like some kind of /dev/apm (not exactly, but you get the idea...)07:07
seb128oh ok07:08
pittiseb128: right now I don't fix the cause, I just suppress the dialog07:08
pittiseb128: but for Hoary I can work on it as well07:09
pittiseb128: to find the right solution :-)07:09
elmoKamion: am i giving this 19 image any special symlink name? ('rc' ?07:12
Kamion19 image?07:12
elmothe d-i upload you just did07:12
thompitti: we know the right solution - make gnome use libpbbuttonsd07:12
Kamionoh, that; yes, rc07:13
Kamionum, maybe wait until it definitely works though :)07:13
thompitti: but that's a big chunky change07:13
pittithom: I meant a "little better" solution07:13
elmocan I trash preview and older images yet, or now?07:13
pittithom: I only glanced at the code (I just wanted to get rid of the dialog), but it seemed to me that there is some odd logic07:14
Kamionelmo: 15 and 16 can go, best keep the preview for now07:14
thompitti: i can well believe that07:14
pittithom: anyway, Hoary stuff. Let's get this out of the door with as little patching as possible07:14
thomfuck yes.07:14
carlospitti: I was thinking on a patch to use DBUS instead of polling with pbbuttons07:14
pitticarlos: sounds much saner :-) 07:15
elmothe amount of changes today has been insane(ly scarey)07:15
pitticarlos: either way, the user space stuff must not touch /dev/pmu any more in Hoary07:15
pittiyeah, package build finished07:15
thomthat means turning off pbbuttonsd and moving all the acpi/power management stuff to a dbus service07:15
carlosthom: ?07:16
thomwhich'd be cool, but a but a metric assload of work :-)07:16
=== Kamion switches cdimage from daily-installer-* back to installer-* in preparation
thomcarlos: if you want to talk to pmu, you can't concurrently access it. it's not safe07:16
carlosthom: that step it's too big to be done in 6 months07:16
carlosthom: pbbuttonsd have a library to communicate from a normal user application with the daemon07:17
carlosthom: I was talking about improve it with dbus07:17
thom*rolls eyes* dbus isn't magic pixie dust07:18
carlosthom: the right thing, IMHO could be to have a power management service like you said that works on any architecture, instead of pmud/pbbuttonsd, apmd/acpid07:18
carlosbut that's not possible in 6 months (without a dedicated work on it)07:18
Kamionit's also not an Ubuntu-go-it-ALONE thing07:18
thomright. so why waste time working on pbbuttonsd? make gnome work properly via pbbuttonsd, then when we have common infrastructure we can make gnome use that07:19
thomKamion: agree 100%07:19
carlosthom: it's another option07:20
pittimdz: can you please approve the patch in #957? Builds and works correctly07:20
carlosKamion: I was not suggesting to do it only for ubuntu07:20
thomwhich is more work and a, imo, a pointless fork in the road for something we're going to ditch when we have the correct infrastructure07:21
Kamionpitti: I'd comment out the char *msg; too to avoid compilation warnings07:22
carlosthom: well, if the dbus patch is done, it could be sent to pbbuttonsd :-)07:22
carlosbtw, don't worry about it now, it's a hoary thing so we should not care until next week :-)07:22
pittiKamion: oh, right07:22
Kamionsabdfl: don't you want to call the image "install-i386.iso"? I thought we'd agreed that earlier07:23
sabdflmaybe warty-install-i386.iso07:24
sabdflmatching warty-livecd-i386.iso07:24
thomi think we should have warty in the name, yeah07:24
=== Kamion hacks publish-daily
thomi keep seeing posts on the 1.0PR crasher upstream report and getting excited, and it's only people adding themselves to the cc07:27
thomWHY does bugzilla feel I care about this?07:27
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-7-49.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangis 07:28
justdaveseb128: you have upstream07:28
sivang*.ubuntu.com down again?07:28
Kamionsivang: works for me.07:28
amUpeople are confused if theres only a name you should add also a number ;) image there are 5 different iso for downloading, a new user dont know which he must take ... he knows 2 is smaller than 1  07:28
seb128justdave: thanks :)07:28
thomsivang: um, no.07:28
mdzpitti: go ahead07:30
KamionamU: don't understand?07:30
pittimdz: okay. I additionally commented out the char* declaration to avoid compiler errors07:30
mdzpitti: s/errors/warnings/ ?07:30
pittimdz: not errors, warnings07:30
pittimdz: yes, sorry07:30
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amUKamion: ;) ask your mother:  warty-install-i386.iso woody-install-i386.iso sarge-install-i386.iso, which of the 3 isos is newer. ask again, 1.iso 2.iso 3.iso .... which of the 3 isos is newer      07:33
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Kamioner, those three are not sanely comparable07:33
Kamionthe place for documentation is on the web site07:33
elmoerr, are these mozilla-locale's going on the CD?07:37
amUKamion: well, a small trick with versioning and all questions are answered, sure you can tell to them click there and later to there, dont forget 95% of the users are beginners, those other 5% follow your link         07:37
KamionamU: we already have /releases/4.10/preview/ etc.07:37
mdzelmo: not unless someone added them to shipseed while I wasn't looking07:40
elmook, cool07:41
amUKamion: than you should write also additionally the version. ( on the web )  07:41
KamionamU: this is not number one on our list of concerns just now :)07:41
KamionamU: I believe, however, that the version number is already on the web07:42
amUKamion: right it is, guess i missunderstand y 07:42
elmoso, if we want to do the additional machine things - how do we want to do this - round robin DNS cdimage, change cdimage DNS, or just as a special one off website we point people to in the announcement?07:45
Kamionseb128: did you notice the evolution-data-server build failure?07:46
seb128on which arch ?07:47
seb128no, thanks07:47
seb128Mithrandir: here ?07:48
mdzelmo: so about #2211...07:50
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mdzfabbione: is #2288 better than the bugs which were fixed by those xkb changes?07:54
sivangsomething broke with epiphany install,07:57
sivangit doesn't show up in the menu panel07:57
sivangand can't be xecuted.07:57
Kamionmdz: #1290> what fix? :)08:03
Kamionmdz: the syslinux timeout has been like that since long before Ubuntu ever existed; that's what I don't understand about that bug08:04
mdzKamion: really?08:05
Kamion    - set the syslinux timeout to 0 on floppys, to match the CD08:06
Kamion -- Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>  Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:46:31 -050008:06
mdzKamion: reopened08:06
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Kamionseb128: when will the last GNOME 2.8.1 tarballs show up?08:08
seb128no idea08:08
mdzseb128: if they're going in, we need them _now_08:08
seb128should be today if they respect the schedule08:08
KamionI'm wondering about this with respect to CD build schedules08:08
Kamionthe release-candidate-candidate CD build is currently scheduled for 2200 UTC today08:09
mdzKeybuk and I were just chatting about this very subject08:09
mdzI did not realize that we were intending to drop in new GNOME upstream tarballs just hours before the release08:09
mdzthat strikes me as somewhat loopy08:09
seb1282.8.1 is due tomorrow08:10
seb128same situation as for 2.8.0 last month08:10
Kamionsounds like an argument for final on the 20th to me :)08:10
mdzI don't think that's acceptable even for a release candidate08:10
seb1282.8.1 is a bug fixes release08:11
seb128changes are very minimal08:11
mdzyes, but even bug fix releases need to be tested08:11
mdzand tested on Ubuntu08:11
seb128translations updates and some fixes08:11
pittiseb128: don't forget about the ubuntu-specific patches08:11
pittiseb128: I still know the hassle of the new gnome-vfs2 package :-)08:11
seb128pitti: don't worry about this08:12
pittiseb128: are there no code changes in pacakges we modified?08:12
Keybukif we're not going to wait for the .1, I don't see the need for even *having* a preview/final release ... we should just do hoary final (e.g.) two weeks after GNOME release 2.1008:12
carlosthom: a present for you: http://users.evtek.fi/~k0400388/debian/08:13
seb128waiting for .1 is good, there is still a bunch of annoying bugs in .008:13
Keybukseb128: indeed08:13
seb1282.8.0 has some mime issues fixed now08:13
carlosthom: the firefox es locale packaged already for Debian08:13
mdzseb128: we can't include 2.8.1 in the RC if it doesn't exist yet08:13
mdzit just isn't possible08:13
Keybukthe question is when *do* we stop uploading new bug fixes?08:13
carlosthom: those packages are waiting for the sponsor to be uploaded into Debian08:13
seb128mdz: it's 90% done08:13
Kamion2.8.1 tarballs have been being uploaded right up to today08:13
seb128mdz: if we miss 2 tarball that's not a big deal08:14
Kamionit seems to me we might as well finish the job rather than having something in between08:14
elmoKamion: s/today/5 minutes ago/ :)08:14
KeybukKamion: especially given GNOME's traditional brokenness when you mix even point-release packages08:14
mdzif these .1 releases are broken when used with .0, then they aren't living up to our expectations08:14
seb128Keybuk: that's wrong08:15
mdzthose kinds of changes would not be acceptable08:15
seb128don't listen to Keybuk 08:15
seb128point-release are minimal change08:15
seb128I'm checking all the changelog08:15
KeybukI'd still rather we delayed the RC so we had all of 2.8.1 in and tested than went with a hybrid08:16
seb128BTW the upstream fix of e-d-s on amd64 seems to break the build08:16
seb128if somebody has an amd64 box to test ...08:16
seb128Mithrandir hacked the previous version, he has probably an idea but he's not here apparently08:17
elmoto test the build you mean?08:17
elmoI can give you access to our amd64's to do that08:17
seb128to try to fix it08:17
seb128the problem is that I'm pretty busy with the stack of tarball to package before 2100 UTC (if the CD is for 2200 UTC)08:17
seb128so if somebody has some time to check that ...08:18
Kamionwe can move the CD build back a bit if the pressure is intolerable08:18
seb1282200 UTC should be fine if the builds are ok08:19
seb128so we need to fix e-d-s on amd6408:19
elmowell, anyone who has time, needs an account, shout.. 08:19
elmoI've installed e-d-s' build-deps in the chroot08:19
seb128for the previous version we runned libdb/dist/s_config 08:21
seb128to get it working on amd6408:21
seb128if somebody can try to run a build after running this ...08:21
Keybukmdz: so what do we want to do for warty?  We can stick a tech-board agenda about hoary's release for next tuesday08:23
seb128oups, the meeting !08:23
mdzKeybuk: for warty it sounds like we are OK08:27
mdzwe'll get the 2.8.1 builds we can, and the others we'll give a miss08:27
Keybuk2100 UTC cut-off for the 2.8.1 tarballs?08:27
mdznpmccallum: ping?08:28
seb128Keybuk: I'll have the current tarballs done before 2100 UTC08:29
Keybukare any new ones expected/outstanding?08:30
seb128I've not checked the details, but most of the desktop (nautilus/metacity/panel/applets/evolution) is here08:31
seb128gnome-terminal is missing but didn't even get a 2.8.0 08:31
sabdflseb128: let's try to get them all in, even if it means we delay the first RC build08:31
seb128and nobody really maintains the control-center08:31
seb128sabdfl: ok08:32
seb128but it should be fine for the build08:32
KamionI'm going to get dinner while I have a chance08:36
carlosseb128: goneme project wants to retook it :-P08:38
seb128mine was down 2 hours this morning08:40
seb128doesn't help08:40
Kamionif your ADSL dies, I recommend driving to the nearest staff member's house :)08:42
elmoeven the nearest staff member is 2 hours away08:42
elmosabdfl's clearly got some no-northerner's hiring discrimination policy going on :-P08:42
sivangelmo : where you located? :)08:44
elmosivang: Leeds in the UK08:45
mdzcould someone knowledgeable about multibyte whatsits look at 2304/2305/2307?08:47
mdzis this RC material?08:47
pittimdz: I already looked at the bugs08:47
pittimdz: I already was inclined to downgrade them08:47
pittimdz: this affects a very special case in Unicode environments08:47
pittimdz: I know about this bug for some time, but since Warty uses the old encodings (latin and such), I don't think this is RC08:48
npmccallummdz: pong08:49
pittimdz: BTW, 2304 says that downgrading to 1:3.1.3-3 fixes the problem; this is exactly Warty's version :-)08:50
=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-236-7.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittimdz: only #2307 applies to warty and is a bit nasty09:07
pittiKamion: do we install UTF-8 locales for some languages by default?09:07
pittiKamion: nevermind, this doesn't matter. #2307 applies to non-UTF-8 locales, too09:22
mdzpitti: go ahead and NOTWARTY 2307, then, if you would09:27
pittimdz: 2307 is warty09:27
pittimdz: I just submitted a patch09:27
mdzpitti: er, 2304 I meant09:27
pittimdz: the question is only if it is regarded as RC09:27
pittimdz: I already closed the other two, they are notwarty09:27
pittimdz: grep works fine for one-byte languages, but fails on this case for the e. g. asian languages (which are multibyte in any case)09:28
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Kamionpitti: some, yes09:29
Kamionhowever I'd be slightly surprised if the installer worked entirely smoothly in e.g. ja_JP anyway09:29
pittiKamion: I just uploaded a patch for #2307; it is straightforward and I tested it, but _if_ we fix it for warty, I would nevertheless appreciate some more eyes09:29
elmoerr, WTF09:30
pittiKamion: I don't think that this affects the installer so much, this case is rather special09:30
elmo2211 isn't reproduceable anymore09:30
Kamionpitti: no, I know, I'm just saying that anyone using exclusively ja_JP has other issues anyway09:30
pittiKamion: it might affect maintainer scripts and user's programs09:30
pittiKamion: right09:30
=== Kamion casually pockets his Heisenbug-generator out of elmo's sigh
pittiKamion: never tested it, it all looks japanese :-)09:30
elmoI wonder if it's because the disks were still being scrubbed.. but that's like.. really odd09:31
Kamionpitti: first stage should be fine, second stage is likely to be broken since jfbterm and unifont are not in warty09:32
=== pitti grabs sth to eat
dokoKamion: the {[] }@? keys don't work again on the german PBook keyboard with today's CD.09:33
Kamionum, nothing's changed recently09:34
mdzpitti: why do upper and lower not work, but alpha does?09:35
mdzelmo: maybe it has to do with where the kernel lands on the disk?09:35
doko/etc/environment looks better, however LANGUAGE="de_DE:de_DE:de:en_GB:en" (doubled de_DE)09:35
mdzpitti: asian language support in Warty is not necessarily up to par anyway; we haven't tested it09:35
mdzpitti: it's not worth the risk of changing grep; I'm downgrading it09:36
Kamiondoko: that's cosmetic though09:37
elmomdz: that won't have changed tho?09:37
Kamion(don't know where it comes from)09:37
pittimdz: alpha is upper and lower together; the functions are just not interpreted correctly, they forgot to respect --ignore-case09:37
Kamionoh, incidentally, whoever arranged for the GNOME menus to be ordered from right to left when you're running in a locale whose language is written from right to left deserves a Cleverness Medal09:38
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Kamionlast call for RC1 uploads in about 15 minutes by the current schedule ...09:51
Kamionwhere's that artwork?09:51
dokokamion: do I understand you right, that you would prefer merging complete .po files only?09:59
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Kamiondoko: it's too late for the release candidate anyway10:00
Kamiondoko: the patches are fine as long as we haven't drifted too far; all of yours applied cleanly10:00
seb128ok, all the packages out of gnome-session have been uploaded10:02
dokonoticed that the debian packages converted to utf8 for all po files. that would be another patch (after warty).10:03
Kamionwe'll be doing a big resync with d-i after warty anyway10:03
Kamionthat's why I didn't want too many gratuitous changes to strings we haven't changed for Ubuntu10:04
dokoI'll send you the scripts I used for generating the diffs. msgmerge & co do very well.10:04
seb128somebody had a chance to look on e-d-s amd64 ?10:04
Kamiondoko: OK10:05
Kamiondoko: thanks - I think we've merged as many as we can for warty now, though10:05
KamionI looked briefly at the Spanish translation, but those .po files only seemed to be for the changed strings, and I didn't have time for the merge10:06
carlosKamion: do you need help with that?10:08
Kamioncarlos: CD builds are starting in an hour at current schedule, it's just too late I'm afraid10:09
carlosWhat needs to be done?10:09
Kamionat the current schedule no more uploads will be accepted for warty10:11
Kamionanything that touches the d-i initrd requires two hours absolute minimum10:11
Kamionmdz: we have a server naming question to punt to you10:12
carlosKamion: ok10:12
mdzKamion: you know I suck at names10:13
Kamionmdz: sabdfl wants an rsync module containing only current CD images for each current release10:13
Kamionwe can't use cdimage.u.c though, since people are already using it10:13
Kamionwould you and jdub kill us if we stole releases.u.c?10:14
sabdflmdz, Kamion, idea is to have a minimal "installer and live cd" mirror possibility for small mirrors10:14
mdzKamion: hmm10:15
mdzKamion: cdimages-i-actually-want.ubuntu.com?10:15
mdzKamion: releases doesn't sound too bad, as long as we can put something on port 80 as well if we decide we want to10:16
Kamionunless we can do cdimage::releases/ sanely10:16
mdzKamion: I had no plans for it10:16
Kamionmmmkay, thanks10:16
mdza module on the existing cdimage seems simpler, though10:16
elmomdz: still need non-rsync access10:17
mdzpratchett.ubuntu.com, for the subtle indirection10:17
mdzisn't the existing /releases/ pretty much that already?10:18
mdzwe could fold sounder-test and releases/preview into a "milestones" dir10:18
mdzand use releases/ only for real releases10:18
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elmowe can't move ISOs around without a lot of advance notice10:19
seb128ok, session seeems to be bugged, we keep 2.8.010:19
seb128so all the modules have been uploaded10:19
mdzseb128: great10:19
seb128somebody has looked on the e-d-s build ?10:19
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 9 RC bugs to go
mdzseb128: is that the one which failed on amd64?10:20
mdzMithrandir: ping?10:20
seb128if somebody has an amd64, it would be nice to run libdb/dist/s_config and run the build again to test10:21
KamionI have an amd64 but I haven't got it network-connected, which makes things very awkward10:22
mdzseb128: I can get you a shell in 5 minutes10:22
seb128elmo said he installed the build dep in the chroot some time ago10:23
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-51.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128where is the chroot in question ?10:23
elmoyou have an account10:23
mdzWHY does it include its own copy of libdb?10:24
Kamionmdz: symlinks are fine but as elmo says we can't change what's there already10:24
Kamionpreview was really the last chance we had to do that10:24
seb128elmo: 10:25
seb128$ dchroot10:25
seb128Executing shell in 'warty' chroot.10:25
seb128Unknown id: seb12810:25
seb128dchroot: Child exited non-zero.10:25
seb128dchroot: Operation failed.10:25
elmoseb128: dchroot -c warty10:25
Kamionelmo: I don't think sabdfl's too bothered about HTTP access for now (correct me if I'm wrong)10:25
elmoit's debian dchroot, not debian.org dchroot10:25
seb128elmo: same10:25
elmooh, crap10:25
seb128warti is the default 10:25
elmoseb128: fixed, sorry10:26
Kamionelmo: people accessing by HTTP can be directed to the right place by means of README.html10:26
elmokamion: mmk *shrug*10:27
seb128elmo: np, thanks10:27
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Kamionis the module best constructed in rsyncd.conf, then, or by symlinks? bit worried about how symlinks will look in the HTTP tree10:28
Kamionhm, rsyncd.conf can't map paths around arbitrarily10:29
seb128elmo: 10:29
seb128wartylog: Couldn't stat source package list http://archive.ubuntu.com ...10:29
seb128on an "apt-get source evolution-data-server"10:30
seb128s/wartylog/W:/ (completion ...)10:30
elmofixed too10:31
elmoKamion: where are we going to point http folks?10:31
elmocdimage.ubuntu.com/ -> straight into the old layout10:32
Kamiondo we have people mirroring by http?10:32
sabdflPANTS OFF!10:32
=== Kamion wonders how jdub has managed to take over sabdfl's client from the other side of the world
=== elmo introduces kamion to the concept of tcp/ip :-P
Kamionheh, ok10:33
Kamionwould you prefer I created something outside /srv/cdimage/www then, or a new symlink tree inside www?10:34
elmofor http mirroring, I dunno.. but i bet we have people going to http://cdimage.u.c/ to download stuff, and AIUI we'd rather they went to the simple layout10:34
elmoKamion: I think outside, www/ maps to what's in the current tree10:35
Kamionright, so they'll have to go to http://releases.u.c/ then10:35
KamionI wonder if rsync DTRT with symlinks pointing outside the tree you're rsyncing10:35
elmono, it won't 10:36
Kamionso I just have to hardlink it?10:36
elmokamion: err.  hmm.10:37
sabdflwe want the simple view for everyone except people who explicitly want the hard one10:37
Kamionobserving that cdimage/releases/warty/ probably needs to continue to exist for a while10:37
danielsogg123 '/home/daniels/music/Aphex Twin/Richard D James Album/track01.cdda.ogg'10:37
elmodaniels: stop pretending you listen to music other than David Hasslehof10:38
Kamionsabdfl: right, but we have to give that a name other than cdimage now; we're agreed on the principle I think10:38
elmokamion: let's make it so www becomes www/simple and www/hardcore (or something) - and I'll adjust the mirror script on my end to DTRT with hardlinks10:38
sabdflcan i see it before it's committed please?10:39
Kamionwww/full then10:39
Kamionsabdfl: we're not going to change the existing cdimage tree, we're creating a new one; so it's probably as easy to commit it and then show you ...10:39
sabdflpoint :-)10:39
danielsotoh, having 'hardcore' in the name will increase our google-fu10:39
Kamionbugger, ok, need to rearrange a bunch of scripts now10:40
elmoKamion: me too - don't trigger before I fix my end :>10:40
carloselmo: I just got an email from a Spanish admin that is mirroring Ubuntu every 6 hours10:45
mdzseb128: it looks like the code is simply duplicated10:45
mdzseb128: maybe a wrong merge?10:45
carloselmo: he says that he sent an email as wiki asks but he did not got any answer and asks for permission to update the wiki with his mirror info10:46
seb128mdz: commenting 760L fixes the build apparently10:46
seb128libdb/dbinc/mutex.h, 760L10:46
carloswhat should I answer?10:46
seb128do you think it's ok ?10:46
seb128/*typedef unsigned char tsl_t;*/10:46
mdzseb128: the entire HAVE_MUTEX_X86_64_GCC_ASSEMBLY block is duplicated in both places10:47
mdzone of them should be removed10:47
mdzthey both define all of the same types and macros10:47
mdzthe code is identical in both cases10:47
mdzthe only difference is indentation10:47
seb128ok, we just remove the libdb/dbinc/mutex.h one so ?10:47
mdzseb128: there are two in mutex.h, I'm saying10:47
mdz731 and 75610:47
mdzboth #ifdef HAVE_MUTEX_X86_64_GCC_ASSEMBLY10:48
seb128oups, yes10:48
seb128why ?10:48
elmocarlos: it's fine for him to edit the wiki10:48
mdzseb128: perhaps a bad merge?10:49
mdzanyway, I deleted the first one10:49
mdzand it is building10:49
seb128you're going to upload it ?10:50
mdzif you don't want to10:51
seb128if you've made the changes, just debuild -S and upload please :)10:52
mdzI made the changes, but I didn't do a dpatch10:53
seb128that's using cdbs and simply-patch10:53
seb128not dpatch10:54
seb128you just remove the first block ?10:54
mdzso you want me to just put the changes in the diff? or do I need to figure out how to make a patch with cdbs?10:54
seb128ok, I'm doing the upload10:54
seb128don't bother10:54
elmogar, having a desktop/laptop with reversed ~ and | is really MESSING WITH MY BRAIN10:54
mdzseb128: 25 lines starting at 73110:55
seb128ok, thanks10:55
=== thom makes a note to randomise the keys on the DC keyboard
=== sivang [~sivang@HFA62-0-172-101.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzthom: load a dvorak keymap, just as good10:55
thomi could just replace it with a french keyboar10:56
mdzthom: confuse the hell out of the remote hands guy10:56
thombut that'd be too painful for words10:56
thommdz: lol10:56
thommdz: trouble is, that'd inevitably mean i'd end up in the DC to fix the problem10:56
=== mdz eats
Kamionsabdfl: so, right now, the simple tree ought to contain the preview? or sounder 9?11:00
sabdflkamion: only the latest, greatest one11:00
sabdflthe one we want people testing11:00
sabdfland the name of the file should reflect that11:00
Kamionthat's hard on rsyncers11:01
Kamionif you want this to be ideal for mirrors, the name of the file shouldn't change all the time11:01
Kamionwe can have a README file in the same directory saying what it is11:01
sabdflumm... what about symlinks?11:02
sabdfli'd much rather the name istranferred with download11:02
KamionI guess, but you can't tell remotely that they're symlinks11:02
Kamionand it might confuse bittorrent11:02
sabdflthe guy ends up with a file that says "warty-sounder9-i386.iso"11:02
sabdflhe knows what he got11:02
Kamionthis is a fundamental conflict between making life sane for mirrors and letting the user know what he's got11:03
KamionI think README is a good compromise11:03
sabdflit's at most a refresh every week11:03
sabdflexcept during release period11:03
sabdflsymlinks seem better to me11:03
sabdflonly thing is directing the user to the well-named symlink11:04
Kamionif we're calling it warty-sounder9-i386.iso then that should probably be the *only* name, no symlink11:04
sabdflwhat about:11:04
Kamionsymlinks will just create "which one do I download?" confusion, and occasionally cause people to download two identical images by mistake11:04
sabdfl  - /pool/warty-current-i386.iso11:04
sabdfl  - /warty/warty-sounder9-i386.iso -> ../pool/warty-current-i386.iso11:05
sabdflthat way people will go into the warty directory and go for the one they want11:05
Kamionyour pool is my full cdimage tree, apart from size :)11:05
sabdflthe mirrors will spend most of their time rsyncing against the previous iso, which would be good11:05
sabdflsize does matter in this special case :-)11:05
Kamionit'll end up as /pool/warty-install-i386.iso and /warty/warty-install-sounder9-i386.iso, I think11:06
Kamionhm, no, warty-sounder9-install-i386.iso11:06
Kamionelmo: what do you think?11:06
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdflwhat's the vi voodoo to reflow a paragraph?11:09
sabdflkamion: for for safety we do have sounder, preview, rc and final cd's in the pool?11:10
Kamionor gq} to reflow to end of paragraph11:10
Kamionsabdfl: people who want older ones have the full tree11:10
sabdflyes, agreed11:10
Kamionif we're not convinced by the newer one, we shouldn't be declaring it to be the one everyone should be using :)11:11
sabdflerm, that didn't work so well on my python code11:11
sabdflis there a way to limit it to a selection?11:11
Kamionv to enter visual mode; move over range; gq11:12
Kamionassuming vim11:12
sabdflah, perfect, thanks!11:12
KamionI'm going to need an ubuntu-release script at this rate11:12
Kamionbet that'll be well-tested11:12
Keybukmake damn-it-all-to-hell-im-going-to-bed11:15
Keybuk(best run on Friday night, for maximum damage :p)11:15
Kamionpersonally I'm just glad cdimage is effectively backed up all over the world now11:16
sabdflKamion: one more, for the bonus prize!11:17
sabdflhow do i autocomplete a word, searching forward in the doc?11:17
Kamionsabdfl: Ctrl-n11:17
sivangsabdfl : you recieved anything from jdub regarding default home page?11:17
Kamion(I think)11:17
sabdflwow, works!11:18
sabdflsivang: not yet11:18
KamionCtrl-p searches backwards11:18
Kamionelmo: ok, I have www/simple/ and www/full/ now; www/full/ is what used to be www/11:18
Kamionelmo: let me know when you're ready for a sync11:18
Kamionit's a bit steam-driven, I'll probably use the time between now and 7am to automate it :P11:19
elmoKamion: k11:27
sivangsabdfl : regarding docs, as agreed on the meeting this is more of a Hoary material, however do we have sufficient docs for _users_ IYO per this release? (on ubuntu.com) or leave this entirly to Hoary?11:27
mdzsivang: sufficient docs has always been a Hoary goal11:29
mdzfor Warty, our goal was to organize the existing documentation11:29
sivangmdz : ok. proceding with streamlining current yelp accessible docs for Ubuntu, due by the 18th.11:31
sivangmdz : that is , the gnome2-user-guide11:31
mdzsivang: streamlining?11:32
hornbeckmdz: I think he means making them more Ubuntu specific11:32
sivangmdz : fetching 2.8 docs from CVS, makig sure it fits ubuntu perfectly and adjust when needed. (removable media )11:33
sivangmdz : etc11:33
sivangmdz : dealing with rmov. media is one aspect I guess, but than again there might not be any work needed other than that :)11:33
hornbecksivang: I already have most of the 2.8 gnome-user-guide ready, just need it packaged11:33
mdzsivang: there are many differences apart from removable media11:35
mdzUbuntu's default menu structureis completely different11:36
sivangmdz : yes ofcourse, I was  just trying to make you understand what I meant :-)11:36
sivangmdz : this is this first thing you notice after install, this and that you have no icons on the desktop :)11:37
hornbeckseb128: thanks for packageing for us doc guys :)11:53
seb128thanks for making docs work :)11:53
hornbeckwe try11:53
elmoKamion: your trigger is wrapped in a script and/or only called in one place, right?11:59

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