[12:01] <Kamion> mdz: can I add the linux-* metapackages to base? :-)
[12:02] <Kamion> (minor problem installing them when they aren't on the CD)
[12:02] <Kamion> and adapt the other seeds too, probably
[12:04] <Kamion> mdz: you may want to adapt your ubuntu-meta update script to cope, if you haven't already
[12:08] <Kamion> mdz: I might kill the install_restricted_modules function as well if you don't mind
[12:10] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[12:10] <mdz> Kamion: (to both)
[12:10] <mdz> Kamion: the version of ubuntu-meta that went into the archive uses debootstrap as a filter for base, so as long as you don't add them to debootstrap, you're safe
[12:11] <Kamion> I don't think linux-386 etc. ever went into a seed, slightly puzzled about how it's in the archive
[12:12] <sivang> jdub : around?
[12:15] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps elmo massaged it, since I mentioned it to him around the time I was uploading it
[12:19] <sivang> seb128 : ping
[12:19] <seb128> pong
[12:22] <sivang> seb128 : Could you briefly explain how does the yelp ubuntu package finds the documentation package? do they cross depend?
[12:22] <seb128> define "documentation package" please
[12:22] <sivang> seb128 : documentation package = where all the docs displayed by yelp are
[12:23] <mdz> sivang: /usr/share/omf
[12:23] <seb128> that's it :)
[12:23] <sivang> seb128 : what's the pkg name ? there must be a pacakge to put those files there :)
[12:24] <seb128> no
[12:24] <seb128> each gnome package has some omf file for example
[12:24] <sivang> mdz : tnx
[12:24] <seb128> and scrollkeeper-update is called in the postinst
[12:24] <mdz> sivang: are you working on #1205?
[12:25] <mdz> elmo_: if you don't have an opportunity to debug #2211, please arrange access for me or someone else
[12:29] <sivang> mdz : yes, but not only on :) I'd like to know also how to introduce new docs besides the offline "home page"
[12:29] <mdz> is bugzilla broken for anyone else?
[12:29] <sivang> mdz : yes
[12:30] <mdz> sivang: the home page would not be registered in yelp
[12:30] <mdz> but if we are going to do an offline home page, it needs to be done today
[12:30] <sivang> mdz : are you putting it ubuntu-desktop ?
[12:31] <mdz> sivang: I do not have anything to put it in at the present time
[12:31] <mdz> s/it in/in it/
[12:31] <mdz> I can't get to anything at the DC
[12:32] <sivang> mdz : DC=?
[12:32] <mdz> data centre
[12:32] <mdz> elmo_: ?
[12:34] <jdub> the on-disk home page will live in ubuntu-artwork
[12:34] <jdub> i've hacked up a simple on
[12:34] <jdub> e
[12:36] <sivang> jdub : why don't you send it up to me, I'll add to it some ?
[12:37] <jdub> ok
[12:37] <sivang> I can't even access ubuntu.com 
[12:37] <sivang> jdub : you know the address?
[12:37] <jdub> yes
[12:38] <mdz> thom: ping?
[12:39] <sivang> jdub : thanks, I'll do a merge between our 2 versions and send it to you for approval?
[12:40] <sivang> mdz : regarding the dead line, that's strange. I understood from John Hornbeck that it's the 18th, is it?
[12:41] <sivang> mdz : sorry, this was meant to go to jdub :)
[12:41] <sivang> jdub : I was sure it had to be sometime closer, as the cd needs time to get pressed :)
[12:49] <sabdfl> elmo_: knows, has remote hands incoming to check
[12:50] <sabdfl> i'm not too far if it needs someone onsite
[12:50] <mdz> ok
[12:50] <mdz> thanks for checking
[12:50] <mdz> what kind of box is passing for a firewall over there?
[12:57] <sabdfl> ibm
[12:58] <sabdfl> ubuntu
[12:58] <sabdfl> 2.4 kernel, hasn't been rebooted to 2.6 yet
[01:05] <sivang> seb128 : for example, the gnome-user-guide get's instlled when I install the GNOME desktop ?
[01:06] <sivang> seb128 : or it's meta package for that matter.
[01:06] <seb128> ?
[01:07] <seb128> it's in the desktop seed
[01:07] <seb128> meta package for what ?
[01:07] <Kamion> ubuntu-desktop I imagine
[01:08] <sabdfl> Kamion: is the ubuntu-desktop package installed?
[01:08] <sivang> seb128 : just a though :) 
[01:08] <sabdfl> maybe a good idea is to have it but not install it?
[01:08] <Kamion> sabdfl: it's installed, yeah
[01:08] <sabdfl> that way someone can knee-jerk their system into a state of compliance, then get rid of it while they tune
[01:08] <sivang> seb128 : thought. Suppose you had a meta package for gnome (that includes all gnome's dependecies) 
[01:08] <Kamion> I thought the point of it was to have it installed so people could use it to track by default
[01:09] <Kamion> the system starts out in a state of compliance :-)
[01:09] <sabdfl> well... between releases it will only cause pain
[01:09] <Kamion> certainly they can get rid of it
[01:09] <Kamion> hm, won't it help?
[01:09] <Kamion> how can we reliably add new packages to desktop otherwise?
[01:09] <sabdfl> it means they get TWO warnings when they override a default of ours
[01:09] <sabdfl> one for the default, and one for ubuntu-desktop
[01:09] <Kamion> which is the other warning?
[01:09] <sabdfl> say they sub epiph and firefox
[01:09] <jdub> i'd kinda prefer an upgrade helper sort of thing
[01:10] <jdub> sabdfl: or worse fam/gamin, esound/polypaudio
[01:10] <sabdfl> sure, but we used a metapackage as a stopgap for that
[01:10] <sabdfl> jdub: yes
[01:10] <Kamion> hm, well, it's silly to have me in the position of advocating this, I'll let mdz do it :)
[01:10] <sabdfl> a metapackage is nice because BLAM the system comes into compliance
[01:11] <sivang> seb128 : could you tell me tha package name? seeds are menifested in a group of pkgs, if I recall right..
[01:11] <sabdfl> i'm just asking questions, i could well be clueless here :-)
[01:11] <mdz> sabdfl: what's the second warning?
[01:11] <Kamion> not installing by default is certainly easy IF we decide to go that way. I have no opinion really :)
[01:11] <sabdfl> one when they remove the conflicting package, one because ubuntu-desktop will have to be removed too
[01:11] <mdz> jdub: so that users who upgrade receive new packages we add to the seeds
[01:12] <jdub> mdz: we could do that with aptitude install "~tubuntu-desktop", too
[01:12] <mdz> jdub: which you would know if you read ubuntu-devel :-P
[01:12] <mdz> jdub: the point is that it happens automatically
[01:12] <sabdfl> i think an upgrade assistant for warty->hoary could be more subtle than a metapackage
[01:12] <jdub> mdz: well, i read that, but wasn't convinced
[01:12] <Kamion> hm, http://www.markshuttleworth.com/bounty.html is 403?
[01:12] <mdz> jdub: and is automatically turned off if they remove one of the packages we install
[01:12] <sabdfl> kamion: ran out of cash
[01:12] <seb128> sivang: what do you want to install exactly ? aptitude install "~tubuntu-desktop" ?
[01:12] <sabdfl> kthnxbye
[01:12] <sabdfl> :-)
[01:12] <mdz> jdub: you should probably have followed up to the list, then
[01:13] <sabdfl> process of moving to ubuntu bounties page
[01:13] <elmo_> somewhere there's a very rich jelly bean making company ...
[01:13] <jdub> haha
[01:13] <mdz> elmo_: and dentists
[01:13] <Kamion> sabdfl: mmmkay, a friend asked me about it
[01:13] <mdz> or perhaps the dentists OWN the jellybean company...
[01:13] <jdub> elmo_: we should convince the jelly belly company to make jelly belly SCHNAAAAKEs
[01:14] <sabdfl> Kamion: should be back now, stooopid permissions problem
[01:14] <Kamion> cool, ta
[01:15] <sivang> mdz : what is the dead line for the webpage in hours from now? (I'm bad at translating UTC times)
[01:15] <sivang> :)
[01:16] <mdz> sivang: as soon as possible
[01:16] <nasdaq4088> i just had an idea: why not allow companies to post bounties on ubuntu's web site for development of the os?
[01:16] <sabdfl> nasdaq4088: willdo :-)
[01:17] <sivang> is ubuntu.com up already?
[01:17] <mdz> yes
[01:17] <sivang> archive is not letting me install too much :)
[01:17] <sivang> 0% [Connecting to archive.ubuntu.com] 
[01:17] <sivang> and stays there
[01:18] <Kamion> sivang: it'll be up and down for a while apparently
[01:18] <sivang> Kamion : ok. I'll continue to hope :)
[01:33] <Kamion> (upgraded #2136, will fix tomorrow, bed now)
[01:34] <thom> mdz: ack
[01:38] <thom> mdz: actually, please mail. going to bed now
[01:38] <mdz> thom: was just the "data center falling into the ocean" thing
[01:39] <thom> ah, right
[01:42] <sivang> still down
[01:56] <mdz> sivang: <Kamion> sivang: it'll be up and down for a while apparently
[02:28] <sivang> jdub : sent the html page?
[02:31] <sivang> anyone of the native english speaker, how do you refer to the life saver thingy that yelp is executed by clicking on?
[02:32] <mdz> life preserver, or life saver
[02:33] <sivang> mdz : tnx :)
[02:41] <sivang> i think there some bug with firefox, I just tried to save a web page locally - the gui presents the same icon for new dir and up one level
[02:41] <sivang> anyone seen that?
[02:43] <jdub> sivang: having network issues atm; if you have suggested content for it, send it over - i'll get it eventually
[02:43] <sivang> jdub : ok, no prob. I myself had a horroble DNS failure problem....:)
[03:19] <daniels> Kamion: with the acx, you need to explicitly set key off before it will associate
[03:19] <daniels> Kamion: you may also need to set a nickname before it will send data down (it will associate but not do data, e.g. dhcp -- bong)
[03:19] <bob2> daniels: did your wireless Just Work, btw/
[03:19] <bob2> ?
[03:22] <daniels> bob2: the Atheros? once out of the installer, yeah
[03:22] <bob2> ah, cool.
[03:23] <daniels> yes siree, this laptop is all about Just Working
[03:26] <lamont> few more minutes and I can go fetch my (hopefully good) liveCD attempt
[03:28] <m_tthew> lamont: it tanked on me, unable to mount rootfs, I am getting a log for you now
[03:28] <lamont> thanks
[03:28] <lamont> I think
[03:29] <m_tthew> sorry to bear bad news :)
[03:29] <lamont> exactly
[03:29] <lamont> OTOH, once I have the image on the local machine, the rsync's should go faster... :-)
[03:29] <m_tthew> :)
[03:38] <lamont> hrm. no doko around
[03:41] <bob2> hm, .au isn't the canonical bandwidth ghetto anymore
[03:41] <daniels> heh
[03:41] <jdub> just canberra
[03:41] <bob2> I have dsl now, foo'
[03:44] <daniels> yes, but all you can access is news about the Melbourne Olympics :P
[04:15] <m_tthew> lamont: I know this is suboptimal, but I am a fool who does not know how to get grub to talk to the serial port:
[04:15] <m_tthew> lamont: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/tmp/warty-livecd-2004-10-11-lamont1.png
[04:16] <bob2> daniels: that dawn fraser chick, whew!
[04:23] <Mithrandir> meow
[04:39] <sivang> jdub : apart from the web page which must be completed today, the reworking of gnome manual is dued by the 18th ?
[04:54] <daniels> ROCK!
[04:54] <bob2> 'n'
[04:56] <doko> lamont: morning
[05:00] <daniels> can everyone please try gnome-volume-manager from http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/g-v-m/ with cameras?
[05:00] <daniels> it should now work with both crazy-proprietary and usb mass storage cameras
[05:00] <daniels> and with USB MS, it should just pop up to the right folder automatically
[05:07] <lamont> doko: remind me what I need to change to make gcc-3.3 build libgcc1 again?
[05:10] <doko> huh, why that?
[05:10] <lamont> bootstrapping something
[05:10] <lamont> from the "go back to where you first got the job" school of bootstrapping... :-)
[05:11] <doko> on which architecture?
[05:11] <lamont> m_tthew: hrm... seemed to boot OK for me... Now to see which disk its on...
[05:11] <lamont> heh.  My login works -> booted from real root.
[05:12] <lamont> m_tthew: well, that's more consistant anyway.  sigh.
[05:13] <lamont> time to track down alex
[05:17] <daniels> if anyone wants to test g-v-m, you'll need to killall gnome-volume-manager && gnome-volume-manager, fwiw
[05:18] <doko> daniels: the only mass storage device I have is a usb stick ...
[05:19] <m_tthew> lamont: let me know if there is anything I can do
[05:19] <daniels> doko: you can simulate a camera pretty easily ;) mkdir -p /media/sda1/dcim/100g-v-m, and put some jpegs in there
[05:20] <daniels> i'd like to get testing with both usb mass storage cameras (of which I've tested two) and non-mass-storage cameras
[05:23] <sivang> jdub : send to jdub AT perkypents.org 
[05:24] <daniels> perkypents, or perkypants? :)
[05:25] <sivang> daniels : does it really matter ? :)
[05:26] <sivang> daniels : you happen to do something with Ubuntu's hdparm support? who has it anyways?
[05:27] <daniels> sivang: it probably matters who you mail it to, yeah ...
[05:27] <daniels> sivang: for laptops, Thom has the acpi-support package
[05:28] <lamont> doko: ia64
[05:28] <lamont> m_tthew: unless you can cause alex to appear, not much.
[05:28] <lamont> OTOH, with the ISO here, I can rsync happier...
[05:28] <sivang> daniels : i am not sure what sort of problem this is, but although I have throughly drilled through hdparm and checked everything, Ubuntu on my 8200 inspiron frequnetly comes to a complete halt, performance wise. fauly hardware?
[05:29] <daniels> sivang: no idea, sorry
[05:29] <sivang> i sent to perkypants
[05:29] <sivang> ok)
[05:30] <doko> lamont: build logs anywhere?
[05:30] <sivang> nighters everybody
[05:34] <lamont> doko: well, the gcc-3.4 build I have times out in 'Running chapter c9' of the acats tests (I guess disabling the tests would be a good start...)
[05:37] <doko> definitely better than downgrading libgcc1. I don't know how the kernel on debian's buildd is configured, so that it doesn't time out.
[05:39] <lamont> debian buildd is running 2.4.25-dsa, my ia64 box is running 2.4.19...
[05:39] <lamont> and in sarge of jun 28.
[05:39] <lamont> er, sid, that is
[05:40] <lamont> maybe I'll just get a reasonably current kernel on my machine, eh?
[05:46] <doko> lamont: worth a try, however sent a patch for you
[05:46] <lamont> doko: cool.  Rebooting now
[05:46] <lamont> and crossing digits, since I don't want to have to go hook up a monitor to the beast...
[05:54] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:56] <daniels> fabbione: hey dude
[05:58] <fabbione> hey daniels
[06:01] <fabbione> i feel like shit today
[06:02] <daniels> oh?
[06:04] <fabbione> i think i have a bit of fever
[06:04] <fabbione> or something like that
[06:05] <lamont> doko: at the risk of sounding stupid... I just drop that file into debian/patches?
[06:06] <doko> and add it to debian/rules.patch.
[06:06] <doko> (however the patch is untested)
[06:06] <lamont> right
[06:11] <daniels> mdz: ping
[06:11] <daniels> fabbione: ping
[06:31] <lamont> make: *** No rule to make target `stamps/02-patch-stamp-disable-gnat-testsuite.d
[06:31] <lamont> hrm.  clearlly missing something here..
[06:42] <doko> lamont: in debian/rules.patch: debian_patches += disable-gnat-testsuite (without .dpatch)
[06:44] <lamont> doh
[06:56] <fabbione> Unpacking replacement ssh ...
[06:56] <fabbione> dpkg: error processing /mirrors/debian.org/pool/main/o/openssh/ssh_3.8.1p1-8.sarge.1_i386.deb (--unpack):
[06:56] <fabbione>  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/ssh', which is also in package openssh-client
[06:56] <fabbione> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
[06:56] <fabbione> Kamion: i guess that's a known problem
[07:04] <hornbeck> jdub: I have the file that sivang worked with, would you like me to message it
[07:04] <hornbeck> fix the spelling?
[07:12] <daniels> lamont: good plan
[07:12] <daniels> except for the fact that none of the Australians are working .au TZ ;)
[07:19] <jdub> i am
[07:20] <hornbeck> jdub: you are fixing it?
[07:26] <jdub> i am running on .au tz
[07:26] <jdub> what am i fixing?
[07:26] <hornbeck> jdub: sivang sent you a file?
[07:27] <hornbeck> I have a currected version of it, would you like me to send it to you?
[07:27] <hornbeck> corrected
[07:28] <jdub> ok
[07:28] <jdub> thanks
[07:28] <hornbeck> what address do you want it at?
[07:29] <jdub> jeff.waugh@canonical.com  please
[07:29] <hornbeck> on its way
[07:30] <hornbeck> night
[08:41] <pitti> Morning!
[09:29] <Kamion> sivang: in British English we'd call it a "lifebelt"
[09:29] <Kamion> daniels: ugh, BONG. shame there's no wireless-tools in the installer, eh?
[09:30] <Kamion> fabbione: that's a downgrade, dude => not supported
[09:30] <Kamion> hey, there *is* a wireless-tools-udeb, mind
[09:30] <Kamion> maybe I do have it after all
[09:31] <sivang> Kamion : Now this is a delayed response ;-) They are usually so good coming from you - not to believe I asked it before I went to sleep ..:)
[09:32] <Kamion> sivang: you asked it after I went to sleep, more to the point
[09:32] <Kamion> 01:31 < sivang> anyone of the native english speaker, how do you refer to the life saver thingy that yelp is executed by clicking on?
[09:33] <Kamion> 00:33 < Kamion> (upgraded #2136, will fix tomorrow, bed now)
[09:33] <sivang> right :-) Well, I usually turn off the machine so I don't get the pleasure of what's going on after I fall asleep.
[09:34] <sivang> Kamion : too bad the home page offline version is already sent to jdub, and I don't have the sources here..
[09:35] <sabdfl> morning all
[09:36] <sivang> morning sabdfl 
[09:37] <sivang> Kamion : interesting you refer to it as a "belt". In hebrew it's something like a "life saving wheel"
[09:38] <sivang> Kamion : hebrew is strange, however when I think of lifebelt, somehow I get the picture of something elastic , rather than firm and solid like the lifebelt
[09:40] <Kamion> sivang: "life preserver" will be understood
[09:42] <sivang> Kamion : I'll modify it - good there are USB sticks, and someone who made them work well in Ubuntu 
[09:43] <Kamion> daniels: still can't get it to associate as far as I can tell, though :(
[09:50] <daniels> Kamion: hmmm, what variant of acx100? i had to go through a couple of drivers using ndiswrapper
[09:50] <daniels> well, for acx111
[09:55] <sabdfl> (08:48:55) mdz: tech board meeting is going to be very fast unless you have something to bring up
[09:55] <sabdfl> (08:49:22) mdz: "release tomorrow lots to do kthxbye"
[09:55] <sabdfl> (08:53:13) sabdfl: i think the schedule is actually community council meeting this week
[09:55] <sabdfl> (08:53:39) sabdfl: was going to invite tech board to participate and have you sign off on the release process with the cc
[09:55] <sabdfl> (08:53:42) sabdfl: sound ok?
[09:55] <sabdfl> (08:53:52) sabdfl: will have a release process drafted for the meeting
[09:55] <Kamion> daniels: um. how do I tell? :)
[09:55] <daniels> Kamion: whatever it says on the box
[09:55] <sabdfl> Kamion: would today's daily have the lspci update for my test ipw2200 card?
[09:55] <Kamion> daniels: it's a US Robotics card, not much in the way of labelling
[09:56] <Kamion> sabdfl: probably not, since discover1-data is in the initrd
[09:56] <Kamion> unless elmo's up VERY early
[09:56] <daniels> Kamion: ah. when you do lspci, is it acx100, or acx111?
[09:57] <Kamion> rebooting now to check
[09:57] <sivang> sabdfl : when is the CC meeting scheduled?
[09:57] <sabdfl> 1600 UTC
[09:59] <sivang> sabdfl : uhm..today ? :)
[09:59] <sabdfl> yes
[09:59] <sabdfl> every tuesday we have a tech board or cc meeting
[09:59] <sabdfl> unless we don't :-)
[09:59] <sivang> you had last tuesday?
[09:59] <sivang> oh :-)
[09:59] <sivang> and TB?
[10:00] <Kamion> did we have a tech board meeting last week? I think I missed it
[10:00] <sivang> Kamion : I revised , and resent. thanks for the english know how :)
[10:00] <mdz> I thought CC was last week and TB was this week
[10:01] <mdz> but the email is out now, so CC it is :-)
[10:01] <sivang> I propuse to write down dates and time on the CC wiki page, just o avoid confusion :)
[10:02] <Kamion> sivang: I did say "British English"; mdz is a more reliable speaker of American English than I am
[10:02] <Kamion> two countries separated by a common language, and all that
[10:02] <mdz> two countries separated by the atlantic ocean...
[10:03] <sivang> Kamio : yep, I now recalled he also told me about the "life preserver"
[10:03] <mdz> to my credit, I provided both alternatives
[10:03] <sivang> mdz : yes you did ;-)
[10:03] <Kamion> mdz: neither of which I'd use in British :)
[10:03] <mdz> Kamion: what do you call them?
[10:03] <Kamion> mdz: "lifebelt"
[10:03] <daniels> lifejacket
[10:03] <mdz> daniels: then what do you call a life jacket?
[10:04] <Kamion> daniels: "Texas Instruments ACX 100 22Mbps Wireless Interface", 104c:8400
[10:04] <Kamion> daniels: it so isn't a jacket :)
[10:04] <sivang> lifejacke is again, somethign elastic, extendable to fit person's size
[10:04] <daniels> you guys are talking about a seatbelt?
[10:04] <Kamion> no, an inflatable ring
[10:04] <daniels> oh
[10:04] <sivang> the wheel is stiff 
[10:04] <mdz> not inflatable, but buoyant
[10:04] <daniels> you mean, an inflatable ring :)
[10:04] <sivang> hahah
[10:05] <sivang> buoyant = stiff ?
[10:05] <daniels> buoyant = floats
[10:05] <sivang> oh
[10:05] <sivang> I don't even want to try imagine how you pronounce that 
[10:05] <sivang> :)
[10:06] <daniels> boy-unt
[10:07] <mdz> ok, time to sleep before CC meeting, good night
[10:07] <sivang> sabdfl : is it late now to add stuff to the agenda?
[10:08] <pitti> Morning seb128!
[10:08] <sabdfl> sivang: go ahead, i might move them to the next meeting or handle them today
[10:08] <sivang> mdz : night
[10:08] <pitti> mdz: good night
[10:09] <sivang> sabdfl : ok, tnx
[10:09] <daniels> Kamion: ah, acx100 ... hm, unsure.  but you might need to give ndiswrapper a shot; i never had much luck with that driver.
[10:09] <seb128> hello
[10:09] <Kamion> mdz: commented on #2284 in reply to you
[10:09] <sabdfl> night mdz
[10:10] <Kamion> daniels: ah well, ignoring then since I have no plans to make ndiswrapper work in d-i
[10:10] <sabdfl> Kamion: please ping me as soon as ipw2200 is testable by me
[10:10] <Kamion> sabdfl: OK, will be later today
[10:10] <daniels> Kamion: fair enough
[10:13] <daniels> Kamion: oh, you did do ifconfig interfacename up, right?
[10:15] <Kamion> daniels: I let netcfg do that
[10:15] <Kamion> same goes for 'ifup wlan0' outside the installer
[10:20] <daniels> hm
[10:20] <daniels> bong.
[10:24] <Kamion> actually, it does claim to associate
[10:24] <Kamion> it just doesn't DHCP
[10:25] <daniels> hm
[11:17] <pitti> Hi mvo! Nice to see you again!
[11:22] <sivang> mdz : I understand that today's is final date for submission of docs and others - as tommorow is RC. And after RC there would be no more changes allowed right? (except for security patches, and act of gods)
[11:22] <sivang> or acts of gods :)
[11:27] <mvo> hi pitti. I'm back from university land :)
[11:31] <fabbione> Kamion: that was updating sid ;)
[11:32] <sivang> fabbione : what's wrong?
[11:33] <fabbione> sivang: a lot of headacke and a bit of fever
[11:33] <Kamion> fabbione: you must have had openssh-client installed from experimental, then
[11:33] <fabbione> i just woke up but i am going to lay in bed soon again
[11:33] <Kamion> (or warty)
[11:33] <Kamion> fabbione: openssh-client has never been in sid
[11:33] <fabbione> Kamion: yes. experimental 
[11:33] <Kamion> well then, not supported :)
[11:33] <fabbione> ehhehe
[11:34] <sivang> fabbione : oh, I've known those too well by now - still not over my dizziness, the last remains of my latest virus catch. :)
[11:34] <Kamion> fabbione: (if you're going to use openssh-client from experimental, use ssh from experimental as well)
[11:35] <fabbione> Kamion: yup i did a "dist upgrade" but it didn't pull in ssh or openssh-server.
[11:36] <fabbione> Kamion: but later i did a mess myself.. reasonf of the informal message here ;)
[11:37] <fabbione> rburton: instead of opening a new bug, please reopen the old one ;)
[11:37] <rburton> fabbione: i tried, but couldn't find it :(  i'll duplicate/reopen if you can tell me the number...
[11:40] <fabbione> rburton: how was to reproduce the problem?
[11:40] <fabbione> left alt + ?
[11:40] <fabbione> i can never remember these things
[11:41] <rburton> fabbione: windows key + arrows, i've configured metacity to use super for keyboard shortcuts
[11:46] <fabbione> rburton: there is also a metacity update
[11:46] <rburton> ah ok
[11:46] <fabbione> are you sure metacity didn't fry your settings?
[11:46] <rburton> that shouldn't have broken it
[11:46] <fabbione> just asking for info ;)
[11:46] <rburton> yeah, if it reset the settings then super would do nothing
[11:48] <fabbione> the SUper is the RWIN or LWIN?
[11:49] <rburton> both i believe, but i use left
[11:49] <fabbione> daniels: i saw that patch and i think we can stick it in X
[11:49] <rburton> hm, rwin is compose for me atm
[11:49] <rburton> handy, but i wasn't expecting that ;)
[11:49] <rburton> oh, i set it last week.
[11:49] <fabbione> if i push rwin it always pushes to the first desktop :-)
[11:50] <daniels> fabbione: cool.  have you got any other pending changes, or should I just upload with this?
[11:50] <fabbione> daniels: there might be a regression.. 2288
[11:51] <fabbione> daniels: if you want to take care of it before uploading
[11:51] <Kamion> bugger, I need to change rootskel
[11:51] <rburton> fabbione: my /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/switch_to_workspace_down (etc) gconf keys are "<Mod4>Down" etc
[11:52] <daniels> fabbione: ok
[11:53] <fabbione> daniels, rburton: hold on
[11:56] <Kamion> review of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=436 please?
[11:56] <Kamion> (works for me in tests)
[12:01] <thom> morning
[12:01] <fabbione> rburton: which layout do you use?
[12:02] <rburton> fabbione: gb
[12:02] <fabbione> daniels: i leave it up to.. i add Denis in CC, but i am off.. too much headacke
[12:03] <daniels> ok
[12:03] <fabbione> rburton: try to check the changelog and see if there is anything that can tickle your brain
[12:03] <daniels> morning
[12:03] <fabbione> rburton: as root of the regression
[12:03] <rburton> k
[12:03] <fabbione> later.. or tomorrow guys
[12:03] <fabbione> sorry but i am not too useful today
[12:04] <sivang> laterz fabbione, get well soon!
[12:04] <thom> take care mate
[12:06] <rburton> i can't see anything obvious, unless the port from trunk had extra changes
[12:07] <daniels> fabbione: hope it all sorts itself out soon
[12:16] <sabdfl> Kamion: think we can build canidates for RC1 today? then get feedback so MDZ and Tech Board can sign off on it this evening?
[12:16] <sabdfl> mirror tonight, then announce tomorrow am?
[12:19] <daniels> Kamion: so how long do I have to upload XFree86? :)
[12:19] <Kamion> sabdfl: it's going to be waiting on a d-i initrd rebuild, and I haven't got approval for the rootskel change that predates it yet, so I still don't know
[12:19] <Kamion> daniels: ASAP please, dunno exactly
[12:19] <daniels> Kamion: yeah, I'll hopefully clear it in the next 30min
[12:19] <Kamion> sabdfl: I really needed to know about this plan yesterday
[12:20] <sabdfl> rootskel? /etc/default/skel?
[12:20] <Kamion> no, rootskel, equivalent of base-files for d-i
[12:20] <sabdfl> Kamion: plan isn't set, tell me what you want
[12:20] <sabdfl> i'm drafting a plan right now, thumbsucking for bits of it, open to your guidance
[12:20] <Kamion> I was expecting to have tomorrow's daily be RC1 and to have a round of testing tomorrow morning before release
[12:21] <Kamion> I'll need to have lamont kick off a manual d-i rebuild today before that though
[12:22] <Kamion> or maybe just upload debian-installer again, since I'll probably need to update disk space estimates again
[12:22] <Kamion> there's also #1232 with a load of d-i translation updates pending
[12:28] <rburton> is there an archive of old packages available? i need metacity from last week
[12:44] <seb128> grrr, my connection went down for 2 hours again
[12:45] <mjg59> The logo on bugzilla still has nasty compression artifacts
[12:46] <rburton> ewwww
[12:46] <rburton> nearly as bad as the default XP wallpaper
[12:47] <elmo_> who did the last linux-source upload?
[12:48] <mjg59> Oh, are we supporting NTFS resizing?
[12:48] <pitti> seb128: welcome back :-)
[12:48] <pitti> seb128: need IP tunneling over letter doves?
[12:51] <seb128> need a good isp
[12:52] <thom> elmo_: herbert did
[12:53] <elmo_> thom: duh, i wanted someone I could harass on IRC :p
[12:53] <thom> heh
[12:53] <thom> blame Mithrandir 
[01:00] <Kamion> elmo_: oh, I meant to harass mdz about that last night
[01:01] <Kamion> mjg59: not in the installer, yet
[01:01] <Kamion> mjg59: it's in Debian but it was a very late change for us and too scary
[01:02] <mjg59> But resizable FAT?
[01:02] <Kamion> uh, if parted can do it?
[01:02] <Kamion> I haven't checked, I must confess
[01:04] <mjg59> Parted can do it, yeah
[01:04] <Kamion> should Just Work then
[01:16] <daniels> Kamion: looks good to me
[01:18] <Kamion> thanks
[01:19] <Kamion> (powerpc is not mentioned in that patch because get_arch_kernel always returns a kernel on the CD there)
[01:22] <thom> can someone review http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/thunderbird-dexul.diff please
[01:22] <thom> fix for https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1933
[01:25] <daniels> thom: i can't see any obvious problems, but don't know enough about it (don't even use it) to properly review, sorry
[01:25] <Kamion> bit of a scary lack of quoting?
[01:25] <Kamion> (i.e. find "$PATHLIST")
[01:25] <Kamion> I'd be inclined to use find -print0 | xargs -0 too but that's maybe just me
[01:27] <Kamion> still, it looks functionally correct to me
[01:27] <pitti> thom: I don't understand this: -e 's,Path=/,/,' -e "s,Path=,$HOME/.mozilla-thunderbird/,"
[01:27] <pitti> thom: first you remove 'Path=', then you substitute it with sth?
[01:27] <Kamion> might be worth trying out that sed on something that contains no Path= lines at all to make sure it doesn't fall over
[01:28] <thom> Kamion: it's been in firefox's script since forever
[01:28] <thom> i'm just transplanting to thunderbird
[01:28] <Kamion> mmmkay
[01:29] <pitti> thom: is "s,Path=,$HOME/.mozilla-thunderbird/," ever applied?
[01:29] <thom> pitti: yes, because in most case the path is relative, not absolute
[01:29] <thom> ie, Path=ey9ogb7w.default
[01:30] <pitti> thom: ah, now I understand. This shall filter out absolute paths and only use relative ones.
[01:30] <thom> the first expression deals with the Path=/home/thom/.mozilla-thunderbird/...
[01:30] <thom> yeah
[01:30] <Kamion> pitti: well, it uses both
[01:30] <daniels> Extracting source xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz ... 
[01:30] <daniels> zcat: xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error
[01:30] <daniels> zcat: xfree86-4.3.0.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--length error
[01:30] <daniels> failed!
[01:30] <daniels> #@$@#$
[01:32] <pitti> thom: now I've got it. Takes a while...
[01:33] <pitti> thom: can you please use -print0 for find and -0 for xargs?
[01:33] <pitti> thom: it's pathetic, I know, but it's not much effort to do it absolutely safe
[01:36] <thom> (sorry, typing break)
[01:36] <thom> yeah, will do
[01:37] <daniels> over half a year on, the fact that all the X macros to do with extensions make the data pointer named 'stuff' still unnerves me
[01:39] <daniels> the entirety of Xext and other various server-side things to do with extensions deal entirely with pointers named 'stuff'
[01:39] <daniels> that was what I called the directory full of games and MP3s in year 7 so no-one would find it
[01:40] <Kamion> MP3s *existed* in your year 7?
[01:40] <daniels> yeah, and I was using IRC to trade them :)
[01:41] <daniels> h4x0r3d mIRC into there, got on Undernet channels and then set up our own channel in which we all traded MP3s amongst ourselves on the local LAN
[01:41] <daniels> it was quite the sophisticated operation
[01:41] <daniels> wrecked only when the admins started wondering why the size of the year 7 home directories had exploded in the last month
[01:41] <thom> man, so many of these fricking mozilla-* bugs are broken profiles
[01:43] <thom> jdub_: can i upload 2280; i've done exactly what seb told me to do ;-)
[01:44] <seb128> thom: have tyou tested the package to be sure ? Just right click on a html file in nautilus and see if firefox is here
[01:45] <thom> seb128: yeah
[01:47] <seb128> ok, cool
[01:48] <pitti> daniels: will you upload #1292 today?
[01:51] <mjg59> daniels: Is it worth thinking about making swcursor the default?
[01:58] <daniels> pitti: yeah
[01:58] <daniels> pitti: about to do it now
[01:58] <daniels> mjg59: are there really that many issues?
[01:59] <pitti> daniels: fine, because I also have to do a g-v-m upload
[01:59] <daniels> pitti: ah
[02:03] <seb128> hum, time to lunch, bbl
[02:03] <mjg59> daniels: I've seen several. Don't we end up using software cursors for the translucency anyway?
[02:04] <Kamion> can somebody eyeball http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/cdrom-checker.diff for me?
[02:04] <daniels> hm
[02:04] <Kamion> without it, cdrom-checker only works in expert mode
[02:04] <daniels> i think there are a couple of problems with swcursor, also
[02:04] <Kamion> unfortunately I only noticed today :-/
[02:04] <daniels> i'm not really happy with doing it this late in the game, also
[02:05] <Kamion> cdrom-checker isn't on the default installation path so I think raising the priorities must be safe
[02:05] <daniels> personally, I think the best thing to do is do like savage, where we just blacklist specific cards unless either sw or hw is specified
[02:07] <pitti> daniels: if you have a minute, can you please take a look at the proposed patch in #2169?
[02:07] <thom> Kamion: oh, hey. os-prober doesn't seem to find my XP install, but only on the amd64 installer, not the x86 one
[02:09] <Kamion> thom: ur. forgot to make some amd64->i386 symlinks, I think
[02:09] <daniels> pitti: bong. unreproducible.
[02:09] <Kamion> bollocks, ok, will look today
[02:09] <daniels> (waits for the component selector to load)
[02:10] <daniels> pitti: looks goo dto me; if it works, i'd say upload
[02:10] <pitti> daniels: unreproducible? Odd
[02:10] <pitti> daniels: I get windows for all mounted volumes as soon as I do /etc/init.d/dbus-1 restart
[02:11] <daniels> yeah, I was looking at the title at the time
[02:11] <pitti> daniels: BTW, we have to coordinate this; both you and me want to upload ubuntu4 :-)
[02:11] <daniels> once I read it fully, it was OK :) i thought it was to do with hotplugging, not restarting hal
[02:12] <daniels> pitti: you asked me to upload g-v-m (sort of implicitly), so I already did :)
[02:12] <pitti> daniels: okay, then I will change the changelog to ubuntu5 and wait for your version
[02:12] <daniels> pitti: the accepted message has already gone to warty-changes
[02:12] <pitti> jdub_: still here? If so, can you please approve #2169? daniels reviewed it, I tested it extensively
[02:13] <pitti> daniels: oh, didn't read my mail in the last 10 minutes :-)
[02:14] <daniels> pitt	heh
[02:14] <lamont> Kamion: I can do the manual run, but it'll add that pesky extra digit to the date...
[02:15] <Kamion> lamont: let's not worry for now, I have some other changes anyway
[02:15] <thom> hrm, compiling firefox , thunderbird and apache2 all at once does bad things to machine usability
[02:15] <lamont> Kamion: cool.  I'll be out for the next several hours, back about 2200 GMT or so.
[02:16] <lamont> there is a remote chance that I can get online, but I rather doubt it.
[02:16] <T-Bone> ladude!
[02:20] <lamont> morning t-bone
[02:20] <T-Bone> lol
[02:20] <T-Bone> hey lamont ;)
[02:20] <lamont> time to haul it outside and take an airhose to it. :-(
[02:21] <lamont> I don't think I get to do any builds on it this morning, and I need to leave shortly
[02:21] <T-Bone> lamont: haven't got much time to check what went wrong with those packages lately either, alas
[02:22] <lamont> it made it about 90 minutes into the gcc-3.4 build for me last night before the machine died.
[02:22] <lamont> I think it may be time to sync everything from the i2000 to the zx2000 :-)
[02:22] <T-Bone> hehe
[02:23] <T-Bone> fortunately i hadn't had such troubles with my gcc build, once i tweaked a bit. But the fact is that some core packages are screwed with that dir.gz file
[02:23] <lamont> yeah - no clue why that was there...
[02:23] <lamont> --force-overwrite??
[02:23] <lamont> or something like that...
[02:24] <T-Bone> lamont: yeah, i can do that, but i'm afraid that it will be there again during stage 2
[02:24] <lamont> yeah
[02:24] <T-Bone> iirc, hppa didn't show that.
[02:24] <lamont> cool
[02:24] <T-Bone> (though i couldn't build gcc-3.4 on hppa :( )
[02:24] <lamont> that reminds me... I need to find a friendly person at ftc to send my dead A500 to ggg
[02:24] <T-Bone> heh
[02:24] <lamont> or throw it in the car next month. :-)
[02:25] <T-Bone> =)
[02:28] <lamont> :-)
[02:28] <T-Bone> :)
[02:32] <thom> heh
[02:32] <lamont> kit?
[02:32] <thom> uh, no idea where that comment came from
[02:32] <thom> feh
[02:32] <thom> s/comment/comma/
[02:33] <thom> yeah. the much mentioned pa risc box :-)
[02:33] <lamont> oh. that.
[02:34] <lamont>  [Topic]  + | Airlift of parisc box needed in London - see lamont
[02:34] <lamont> :-)
[02:35] <thom> heh
[02:35] <lamont> of course, I won't be around to see what discussion that stirrs up..
[02:37] <lamont> anyway, I'm off for several hours.
[02:37] <T-Bone> lamont: see ya later or tomorrow then
[02:51] <carlos> What's the multiverse archive?
[02:58] <pitti> carlos: equivalent no Debian's non-free
[02:58] <pitti> carlos: unsupported Non-DFSG
[03:06] <Keybuk> Bug#268886: dpkg: Problem with dutch translation, south-african text appears in it
[03:07] <Keybuk> heh
[03:27] <amu> ..ooOOO oh my god, 211 users at #ubuntu 
[03:41] <thom> my gosh, how can anyone get anything useful done with gui mail clients?
[03:42] <Kamion> sloooooowly
[03:42] <Kamion> -"Language-Team:  <debian-l10n-greek@lists.debian.org>\n"
[03:42] <Kamion> +"Language-Team: Greece\n"
[03:42] <Kamion> what sort of an entry is that?
[03:43] <Keybuk> an Olympic one?
[03:43] <Kamion> and the Greek translator is gratuitously changing translations whose msgid hasn't changed, just so that they'll be more work for me to merge later, as far as I can tell
[03:46] <Keybuk> heh, I just generally used to ask translators to provide entire .po files, or nothing
[03:46] <Keybuk> resolving 3-way diffs when you don't know the language ... is interesting
[03:46] <Kamion> doko has assembled the tarballs provided by the translations into patches
[03:46] <Kamion> I'm just applying them
[03:47] <Kamion> (but yes, I know what you mean, and that's precisely the pain that's going to arrive in force come the Hoary merge)
[03:48] <Keybuk> tell me about it
[03:48] <thom> hoary is gonna be no fun for a while i think :/
[03:48] <Kamion> you misspelled "total nightmare of death"
[03:49] <thom> i vote we blame keybuk
[03:49] <Keybuk> are you using msgmerge to merge the .po files?
[03:49] <Kamion> me? I'm using patch right now
[03:50] <Kamion> in general, I'm doing whatever debconf-updatepo does, which involves intltool-debian not gettext as far as I know
[03:50] <Keybuk> *nods* there's intltool-merge which should do *something* useful
[03:51] <Keybuk> though I don't think (usefully) that can do po files to po files
[03:52] <daniels> Keybuk: finish hct, yesterday
[03:52] <Kamion> big chunks of d-i are about to become real good tests for you
[03:53] <Keybuk> daniels: am working as fast as I can :)
[03:53] <Keybuk> Kamion: once d-i is on arch.ubuntu.com, we can have a play with that
[03:53] <daniels> are the london buses really called 'root master'??
[03:53] <Keybuk> daniels: the ones with the spiral stairs at the back are called "Routemaster"
[03:54] <Kamion> Keybuk: lifeless has had all the details for a while now
[03:54] <daniels> oh man
[03:54] <daniels> that is too funny
[03:54] <Keybuk> every other time I go to London, they've either been put back on the roads due to amazing public opinion
[03:54] <lifeless> its high on my todo, but we've had some trouble :[
[03:54] <Keybuk> and the next time all withdrawn again because they're unsafe and impossible for the disabled to use
[03:54] <rburton> they should all die
[03:54] <daniels> i like the hop-on, hop-off idea
[03:55] <daniels> i also like the fact that they're called 'root master'
[03:55] <rburton> "route"!
[03:55] <daniels> rburton: dude, if the London bus chief dude wanted to say 'route', he would've said 'route'
[03:55] <rburton> slam-door trains should also die a slow and painful death
[03:55] <daniels> but he was quite clearly saying 'root' :)
[03:55] <rburton> daniels: you, sir, can't speak
[03:55] <Kamion>  "????????? IP          = $[ipaddress}\n"
[03:55] <Kamion>  "M???? ???????         = ${netmask}\n"
[03:55] <Kamion>  "???? ???????          = ${gateway}\n"
[03:55] <Kamion> -"Point-to-Point        = {pointtopoint}\n"
[03:55] <Kamion> +"Point-to-Point        = ${pointtopoint}\n"
[03:55] <Kamion> geez, either fix it all or don't fix any of it
[03:58] <Keybuk> rburton: what's wrong with slam-doors ?!
[03:58] <Keybuk> they hardly *ever* break down, unlike the new things that replaced them
[03:58] <rburton> HAHAHA
[03:58] <Keybuk> they have ample leg and seat room, unlike the new things that replaced them
[03:58] <thom> Keybuk: you funny
[03:58] <rburton> you clearly don't use them often
[03:58] <Keybuk> and, more importantly, you can't door-surf on the new trains
[03:59] <Keybuk> rburton: used to every day
[03:59] <rburton> Keybuk: the new new ones are really nice, but only a few routes in the south east have them
[03:59] <daniels> ... door-surf?
[03:59] <Keybuk> daniels: "slam-door" trains just have ordinary doors
[03:59] <Keybuk> with no locks
[04:00] <rburton> as long as you have really bendy arms
[04:00] <rburton> Keybuk: they are often very cold in winter though
[04:00] <Keybuk> the deterrant to stop you opening them at full-speed is that you have to stick your hand out of the window to open them (the handle is on the outside)
[04:00] <Keybuk> but you can have fun
[04:00] <Keybuk> as you come into a station, open the door, and swing out on it
[04:00] <Keybuk> so the door's at 90 to the train, and you ride on the door
[04:01] <rburton> Keybuk: for fun, some trains have catches on the inside
[04:01] <Keybuk> it's also fun if people aren't "standing behind the yellow line"
[04:01] <Keybuk> because they get a door in their face
[04:01] <Keybuk> :p
[04:01] <rburton> s/face/body/
[04:01] <Keybuk> rburton: yeah, the Waterloo line ones did, didn't they?
[04:01] <daniels> Keybuk: haha
[04:01] <rburton> Keybuk: i'd say half of the trains from london bridge have inside handles
[04:02] <daniels> your trains are so very quaint
[04:02] <daniels> have you considered a real PT system some day? :)
[04:02] <rburton> daniels: slam door trains are a relic, and being replaced
[04:02] <Keybuk> interestingly, did you know that no model railway company makes them in OO guage?
[04:02] <daniels> rburton: that's a start ...
[04:03] <Keybuk> rburton: we still need a real PT system though
[04:03] <rburton> bah
[04:03] <daniels> pitti: please see the new comments on #1292
[04:04] <daniels> any PT system that includes something called a 'rootmaster' is alright by me, though :)
[04:05] <Kamion> $ filterdiff -i \*/partman-md-\* lang-updates1.diff | patch -p7 -d ~/src/ubuntu/partman-md/partman-md-11ubuntu1
[04:05] <Kamion> how did people ever get by without patchutils?
[04:05] <pitti> daniels: odd, this works fine for me without any reconfiguration
[04:05] <daniels> Keybuk: i'm so finding a new roommate for Spain
[04:06] <daniels> pitti: i think his problem is that he's missing the %h
[04:06] <Keybuk> lol
[04:06] <thom> Kamion: how did we leave it out of main for so long?
[04:06] <Keybuk> Kamion: ediff, man!
[04:06] <Kamion> that would imply the Dark Side
[04:06] <pitti> daniels: probably. maybe the wrapper script should check that $1 is nonempty
[04:06] <Kamion> not to mention not using a shell
[04:06] <daniels> pitti: yeah, don't think it's hugely important for warty, though
[04:39] <Kamion> help with #1971 appreciated ...
[04:46] <daniels> Kamion: i'd want dmesg
[04:47] <Kamion> daniels: so would I, but it's kinda hard without a keyboard
[04:49] <daniels> yeah
[04:49] <daniels> without more info, it's really hard
[04:55] <sabdfl> elmo: could you thom me the private key for 01.pem please?
[04:55] <T-Gone> bbi2h
[04:55] <thom> verbing that is totally unfair :-)
[04:55] <sabdfl> :-)
[04:56] <daniels> i think we should verb that for any accidental disclosure of any form
[04:56] <sabdfl> *legend*ary
[04:56] <daniels> as in, 'whoops, I just thommed that to #ubuntu'
[04:57] <sabdfl> guys, i'm very excited for this release!
[04:58] <daniels> i'm excited about the release process
[04:58] <daniels> the longer we stay in it, the longer we get to avoid syncing hoary :)
[04:58] <thom> daniels: you're just not used to having a release process, kde boy
[04:59] <daniels> i wonder how much bandwidth we'll burn through, given the phenomenonal interest with the preivew
[05:00] <sabdfl> i think we should delay syncing hoary, take a break and set hoary feature goals and priorities, then come back to the packaging
[05:00] <sabdfl> hopefully with some tools to make it a bit easier
[05:00] <daniels> my biggest fear is that we come back to some painful upstream version drift, so it's not just reapplying patches
[05:01] <Kamion> I'm worried about spending too long *without* syncing hoary, personally
[05:01] <daniels> but I don't think GNOME will be a problem ;) and it looks like that would be the biggest pain
[05:01] <Kamion> I think we need to get started on that ASAP
[05:02] <Kamion> certainly we'll be spending a while on support ...
[05:03] <daniels> we already have the most up-to-date GNOME, and once we get X out of the way ... my god, there are two massive sync nightmares gone
[05:03] <Kamion> d-i
[05:03] <daniels> yeah, that looks painful
[05:03] <sabdfl> hmm... new kernel gives a weird menu.lst:
[05:03] <sabdfl> title           Ubuntu, kernel 2.6.8.1-3-686.dpkg-tmp
[05:03] <sabdfl> root            (hd0,0)
[05:03] <sabdfl> kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-3-686.dpkg-tmp root=/dev/hda1 ro quiet splash
[05:03] <sabdfl> savedefault
[05:03] <sabdfl> boot
[05:03] <sabdfl> ?
[05:04] <Kamion> update-grub called at wrong time? dunno ...
[05:06] <elmo> yeah, I saw that at the DC, it seems to run update-grub twice - once when the .dpkg-tmp file is still there
[05:06] <daniels> that's not mertic :)
[05:06] <daniels> metric, either
[05:07] <sabdfl> elmo: yes, it passes. interesting
[05:08] <daniels> seb128: ping -- please see #1292 wrt changing preferences
[05:08] <seb128> pong, ok
[05:09] <daniels> thanks dude
[05:10] <seb128> 'night daniels 
[05:11] <thom> night dude
[05:14] <daniels> spam with a subject of ' %Please *contact m+e'
[05:14] <daniels> it's like running ls in an arch dir :P
[05:15] <daniels> sorry, 2534     Oct 12 Mary Jessi      (   0) % Pls ^contact *me+
[05:21] <pitti> Yeah, my network is back
[05:23] <Kamion> fabbione: have fun with #2299 :-/
[05:28] <Kamion> thom: mozilla-firefox-locale-{es,gl} are uninstallable, if you hadn't noticed
[05:29] <thom> Kamion: yeah
[05:36] <elmo> hmm, anyone know a good way to get the URLs of a given website? like determine the site-map from the outside
[05:37] <Kamion> google?
[05:37] <elmo> eh? google?
[05:37] <Kamion> google some-common-term site:whatever
[05:38] <Kamion> it's about the best you're going to do in general, I'd imagine
[05:38] <elmo> oh, I was more thinking wget -r or linkchecker or something - but I guess google'd work 
[05:39] <Kamion> does the site publish directory listings?
[05:39] <Kamion> I suppose you could run a spider over it if it's fully linked
[05:40] <Kamion> sorry, I'm probably thinking in slightly too general terms
[05:42] <seb128> elmo: apparently jbailey has uploaded ximian-connector 2.0 in debian several time but not trace of the upload ... any idea of what's happening ?
[05:44] <elmo> seb128: what kamion said - it's not in any of katie's log files
[05:44] <seb128> weird
 Yes, same as I upload my other packages.
 No idea why this one hasn't worked despite being uploaded twice.
[05:45] <elmo> Oct  8 14:46:44 ximian-connector_2.0.1-1_i386.changes isn't signed with PGP/GnuPG
[05:45] <elmo> Oct  8 14:46:44 Removing ximian-connector_2.0.1-1_i386.changes, but keeping its associated files for now.
[05:45] <seb128> oh, Jeff probably got the mails
[05:45] <seb128> the uploader get nothing in this case ...
[05:46] <seb128> s/Jeff/jdub/
[05:46] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[05:58] <sabdfl> ANNOUNCEMENT: Community Council meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes
[06:33] <mdz> pitti: are you here?
[06:33] <pitti> mdz: yes
[06:33] <mdz> pitti: could you look at #957?
[06:33] <pitti> mdz: sure
[06:33] <mdz> pitti: I'm sure there's a simple fix once the right code is located, and it'd be very nice to get rid of that dialog for the RC
[06:34] <pitti> mdz: I will look after this
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: by now we just disable the dialog, not the cause, right?
[06:35] <mdz> pitti: correct, just stop displaying it
[06:35] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[06:35] <mdz> pitti: hopefully you can reproduce it; it doesn't happen on my desktop
[06:35] <pitti> mdz: I can, it happens every time on my iBook
[06:36] <carlos> thom: http://nave.hispalinux.es/productos/firefox/1.0/descargas/firefox-1.0-es-ES.xpi
[06:36] <thom> dude, 0.9
[06:36] <carlos> thom: is it what you need?
[06:36] <thom> but ok
[06:36] <thom> i can dig on that
[06:37] <thom> carlos: thanks
[06:37] <carlos> thom: seems like there isn't a 0.9 release
[06:38] <thom> yeah, that's exactly the problem :(
[06:38] <thom> 1.0 is too different
[06:40] <carlos> thom: I think there was an es-AR translation for 0.9, but I don't know the quality of it, but it's better than nothing...
[07:03] <pitti> seb128, mdz: I have a fix and patched package for #957 ready, it is building
[07:04] <pitti> seb128: Hi, welcome back
[07:04] <pitti> seb128: mdz asked me to fix #957, since it is kind of urgent and you were absent
[07:06] <seb128> pitti: was testing the news GNOME 2.8.1 packages, so restarting my GNOME and since I use xchat ...
[07:07] <seb128> pitti: thanks for working on this one, I've not real idea of what /dev/pmu is and not box to test
[07:07] <pitti> seb128: oh, no problem. I've got a powerpc and /dev/pmu is the analogon to apm on i386
[07:07] <carlos> seb128: think on it like some kind of /dev/apm (not exactly, but you get the idea...)
[07:08] <seb128> oh ok
[07:08] <pitti> seb128: right now I don't fix the cause, I just suppress the dialog
[07:09] <pitti> seb128: but for Hoary I can work on it as well
[07:09] <pitti> seb128: to find the right solution :-)
[07:12] <elmo> Kamion: am i giving this 19 image any special symlink name? ('rc' ?
[07:12] <Kamion> 19 image?
[07:12] <elmo> the d-i upload you just did
[07:12] <thom> pitti: we know the right solution - make gnome use libpbbuttonsd
[07:13] <Kamion> oh, that; yes, rc
[07:13] <Kamion> um, maybe wait until it definitely works though :)
[07:13] <thom> pitti: but that's a big chunky change
[07:13] <pitti> thom: I meant a "little better" solution
[07:13] <elmo> can I trash preview and older images yet, or now?
[07:14] <pitti> thom: I only glanced at the code (I just wanted to get rid of the dialog), but it seemed to me that there is some odd logic
[07:14] <Kamion> elmo: 15 and 16 can go, best keep the preview for now
[07:14] <elmo> k
[07:14] <thom> pitti: i can well believe that
[07:14] <pitti> thom: anyway, Hoary stuff. Let's get this out of the door with as little patching as possible
[07:14] <thom> fuck yes.
[07:14] <carlos> pitti: I was thinking on a patch to use DBUS instead of polling with pbbuttons
[07:15] <pitti> carlos: sounds much saner :-) 
[07:15] <elmo> the amount of changes today has been insane(ly scarey)
[07:15] <pitti> carlos: either way, the user space stuff must not touch /dev/pmu any more in Hoary
[07:15] <pitti> yeah, package build finished
[07:15] <thom> that means turning off pbbuttonsd and moving all the acpi/power management stuff to a dbus service
[07:16] <carlos> thom: ?
[07:16] <thom> which'd be cool, but a but a metric assload of work :-)
[07:16] <thom> carlos: if you want to talk to pmu, you can't concurrently access it. it's not safe
[07:16] <carlos> thom: that step it's too big to be done in 6 months
[07:17] <carlos> thom: pbbuttonsd have a library to communicate from a normal user application with the daemon
[07:17] <carlos> thom: I was talking about improve it with dbus
[07:18] <thom> *rolls eyes* dbus isn't magic pixie dust
[07:18] <carlos> thom: the right thing, IMHO could be to have a power management service like you said that works on any architecture, instead of pmud/pbbuttonsd, apmd/acpid
[07:18] <carlos> but that's not possible in 6 months (without a dedicated work on it)
[07:18] <Kamion> it's also not an Ubuntu-go-it-ALONE thing
[07:19] <thom> right. so why waste time working on pbbuttonsd? make gnome work properly via pbbuttonsd, then when we have common infrastructure we can make gnome use that
[07:19] <thom> Kamion: agree 100%
[07:20] <carlos> thom: it's another option
[07:20] <pitti> mdz: can you please approve the patch in #957? Builds and works correctly
[07:20] <carlos> Kamion: I was not suggesting to do it only for ubuntu
[07:21] <thom> which is more work and a, imo, a pointless fork in the road for something we're going to ditch when we have the correct infrastructure
[07:22] <Kamion> pitti: I'd comment out the char *msg; too to avoid compilation warnings
[07:22] <carlos> thom: well, if the dbus patch is done, it could be sent to pbbuttonsd :-)
[07:22] <carlos> btw, don't worry about it now, it's a hoary thing so we should not care until next week :-)
[07:22] <pitti> Kamion: oh, right
[07:23] <Kamion> sabdfl: don't you want to call the image "install-i386.iso"? I thought we'd agreed that earlier
[07:24] <sabdfl> yes
[07:24] <sabdfl> maybe warty-install-i386.iso
[07:24] <sabdfl> matching warty-livecd-i386.iso
[07:24] <thom> i think we should have warty in the name, yeah
[07:24] <Kamion> warty-live-i386.iso
[07:24] <Kamion> OK
[07:26] <thom> bah
[07:27] <thom> i keep seeing posts on the 1.0PR crasher upstream report and getting excited, and it's only people adding themselves to the cc
[07:27] <thom> WHY does bugzilla feel I care about this?
[07:28] <sivang> is 
[07:28] <justdave> seb128: you have upstream
[07:28] <sivang> *.ubuntu.com down again?
[07:28] <Kamion> sivang: works for me.
[07:28] <amU> people are confused if theres only a name you should add also a number ;) image there are 5 different iso for downloading, a new user dont know which he must take ... he knows 2 is smaller than 1  
[07:28] <seb128> justdave: thanks :)
[07:28] <thom> sivang: um, no.
[07:30] <mdz> pitti: go ahead
[07:30] <Kamion> amU: don't understand?
[07:30] <pitti> mdz: okay. I additionally commented out the char* declaration to avoid compiler errors
[07:30] <mdz> pitti: s/errors/warnings/ ?
[07:30] <pitti> mdz: not errors, warnings
[07:30] <pitti> mdz: yes, sorry
[07:33] <amU> Kamion: ;) ask your mother:  warty-install-i386.iso woody-install-i386.iso sarge-install-i386.iso, which of the 3 isos is newer. ask again, 1.iso 2.iso 3.iso .... which of the 3 isos is newer      
[07:33] <Kamion> er, those three are not sanely comparable
[07:33] <Kamion> the place for documentation is on the web site
[07:37] <elmo> err, are these mozilla-locale's going on the CD?
[07:37] <amU> Kamion: well, a small trick with versioning and all questions are answered, sure you can tell to them click there and later to there, dont forget 95% of the users are beginners, those other 5% follow your link         
[07:37] <Kamion> amU: we already have /releases/4.10/preview/ etc.
[07:40] <mdz> elmo: not unless someone added them to shipseed while I wasn't looking
[07:41] <elmo> ok, cool
[07:41] <amU> Kamion: than you should write also additionally the version. ( on the web )  
[07:41] <Kamion> amU: this is not number one on our list of concerns just now :)
[07:42] <Kamion> amU: I believe, however, that the version number is already on the web
[07:42] <amU> Kamion: right it is, guess i missunderstand y 
[07:45] <elmo> so, if we want to do the additional machine things - how do we want to do this - round robin DNS cdimage, change cdimage DNS, or just as a special one off website we point people to in the announcement?
[07:46] <Kamion> seb128: did you notice the evolution-data-server build failure?
[07:47] <seb128> on which arch ?
[07:47] <Kamion> amd64
[07:47] <seb128> no, thanks
[07:47] <seb128> looking
[07:47] <seb128> hum
[07:48] <seb128> Mithrandir: here ?
[07:50] <mdz> elmo: so about #2211...
[07:54] <mdz> fabbione: is #2288 better than the bugs which were fixed by those xkb changes?
[07:57] <sivang> something broke with epiphany install,
[07:57] <sivang> it doesn't show up in the menu panel
[07:57] <sivang> and can't be xecuted.
[08:03] <Kamion> mdz: #1290> what fix? :)
[08:04] <Kamion> mdz: the syslinux timeout has been like that since long before Ubuntu ever existed; that's what I don't understand about that bug
[08:05] <mdz> Kamion: really?
[08:06] <Kamion>     - set the syslinux timeout to 0 on floppys, to match the CD
[08:06] <Kamion>  -- Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>  Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:46:31 -0500
[08:06] <mdz> Kamion: reopened
[08:08] <Kamion> seb128: when will the last GNOME 2.8.1 tarballs show up?
[08:08] <seb128> no idea
[08:08] <mdz> seb128: if they're going in, we need them _now_
[08:08] <seb128> should be today if they respect the schedule
[08:08] <Kamion> I'm wondering about this with respect to CD build schedules
[08:09] <Kamion> the release-candidate-candidate CD build is currently scheduled for 2200 UTC today
[08:09] <seb128> hum
[08:09] <mdz> Keybuk and I were just chatting about this very subject
[08:09] <mdz> I did not realize that we were intending to drop in new GNOME upstream tarballs just hours before the release
[08:09] <mdz> that strikes me as somewhat loopy
[08:10] <seb128> 2.8.1 is due tomorrow
[08:10] <seb128> same situation as for 2.8.0 last month
[08:10] <Kamion> sounds like an argument for final on the 20th to me :)
[08:10] <mdz> I don't think that's acceptable even for a release candidate
[08:11] <seb128> 2.8.1 is a bug fixes release
[08:11] <seb128> changes are very minimal
[08:11] <mdz> yes, but even bug fix releases need to be tested
[08:11] <mdz> and tested on Ubuntu
[08:11] <seb128> translations updates and some fixes
[08:11] <pitti> seb128: don't forget about the ubuntu-specific patches
[08:11] <pitti> seb128: I still know the hassle of the new gnome-vfs2 package :-)
[08:12] <seb128> pitti: don't worry about this
[08:12] <pitti> seb128: are there no code changes in pacakges we modified?
[08:12] <Keybuk> if we're not going to wait for the .1, I don't see the need for even *having* a preview/final release ... we should just do hoary final (e.g.) two weeks after GNOME release 2.10
[08:13] <carlos> thom: a present for you: http://users.evtek.fi/~k0400388/debian/
[08:13] <seb128> waiting for .1 is good, there is still a bunch of annoying bugs in .0
[08:13] <Keybuk> seb128: indeed
[08:13] <seb128> 2.8.0 has some mime issues fixed now
[08:13] <carlos> thom: the firefox es locale packaged already for Debian
[08:13] <mdz> seb128: we can't include 2.8.1 in the RC if it doesn't exist yet
[08:13] <mdz> it just isn't possible
[08:13] <Keybuk> the question is when *do* we stop uploading new bug fixes?
[08:13] <carlos> thom: those packages are waiting for the sponsor to be uploaded into Debian
[08:13] <seb128> mdz: it's 90% done
[08:13] <Kamion> 2.8.1 tarballs have been being uploaded right up to today
[08:14] <seb128> mdz: if we miss 2 tarball that's not a big deal
[08:14] <Kamion> it seems to me we might as well finish the job rather than having something in between
[08:14] <elmo> Kamion: s/today/5 minutes ago/ :)
[08:14] <Keybuk> Kamion: especially given GNOME's traditional brokenness when you mix even point-release packages
[08:14] <mdz> if these .1 releases are broken when used with .0, then they aren't living up to our expectations
[08:15] <seb128> Keybuk: that's wrong
[08:15] <mdz> those kinds of changes would not be acceptable
[08:15] <seb128> don't listen to Keybuk 
[08:15] <mdz> ok
[08:15] <seb128> point-release are minimal change
[08:15] <seb128> I'm checking all the changelog
[08:16] <Keybuk> I'd still rather we delayed the RC so we had all of 2.8.1 in and tested than went with a hybrid
[08:16] <seb128> BTW the upstream fix of e-d-s on amd64 seems to break the build
[08:16] <seb128> http://people.no-name-yet.com/~lamont/buildLogs/e/evolution-data-server/1.0.2-0ubuntu1/evolution-data-server_1.0.2-0ubuntu1_20041012-1642-amd64-failed
[08:16] <seb128> if somebody has an amd64 box to test ...
[08:17] <seb128> Mithrandir hacked the previous version, he has probably an idea but he's not here apparently
[08:17] <elmo> to test the build you mean?
[08:17] <elmo> I can give you access to our amd64's to do that
[08:17] <seb128> to try to fix it
[08:17] <seb128> the problem is that I'm pretty busy with the stack of tarball to package before 2100 UTC (if the CD is for 2200 UTC)
[08:18] <seb128> so if somebody has some time to check that ...
[08:18] <Kamion> we can move the CD build back a bit if the pressure is intolerable
[08:19] <seb128> 2200 UTC should be fine if the builds are ok
[08:19] <seb128> so we need to fix e-d-s on amd64
[08:19] <elmo> well, anyone who has time, needs an account, shout.. 
[08:19] <elmo> I've installed e-d-s' build-deps in the chroot
[08:21] <seb128> for the previous version we runned libdb/dist/s_config 
[08:21] <seb128> to get it working on amd64
[08:21] <seb128> if somebody can try to run a build after running this ...
[08:23] <Keybuk> mdz: so what do we want to do for warty?  We can stick a tech-board agenda about hoary's release for next tuesday
[08:23] <seb128> oups, the meeting !
[08:27] <mdz> Keybuk: for warty it sounds like we are OK
[08:27] <mdz> we'll get the 2.8.1 builds we can, and the others we'll give a miss
[08:27] <Keybuk> 2100 UTC cut-off for the 2.8.1 tarballs?
[08:28] <mdz> npmccallum: ping?
[08:29] <seb128> Keybuk: I'll have the current tarballs done before 2100 UTC
[08:30] <Keybuk> are any new ones expected/outstanding?
[08:31] <seb128> I've not checked the details, but most of the desktop (nautilus/metacity/panel/applets/evolution) is here
[08:31] <seb128> gnome-terminal is missing but didn't even get a 2.8.0 
[08:31] <sabdfl> seb128: let's try to get them all in, even if it means we delay the first RC build
[08:31] <seb128> and nobody really maintains the control-center
[08:32] <seb128> sabdfl: ok
[08:32] <seb128> but it should be fine for the build
[08:36] <Kamion> I'm going to get dinner while I have a chance
[08:38] <carlos> seb128: goneme project wants to retook it :-P
[08:39] <elmo> GOD DAMN IT.  MY ADSL IS *NOT* ALLOWED TO DIE TONIGHT
[08:40] <seb128> mine was down 2 hours this morning
[08:40] <seb128> doesn't help
[08:42] <Kamion> if your ADSL dies, I recommend driving to the nearest staff member's house :)
[08:42] <elmo> even the nearest staff member is 2 hours away
[08:42] <elmo> sabdfl's clearly got some no-northerner's hiring discrimination policy going on :-P
[08:44] <sivang> elmo : where you located? :)
[08:45] <elmo> sivang: Leeds in the UK
[08:47] <mdz> could someone knowledgeable about multibyte whatsits look at 2304/2305/2307?
[08:47] <mdz> is this RC material?
[08:47] <pitti> mdz: I already looked at the bugs
[08:47] <pitti> mdz: I already was inclined to downgrade them
[08:47] <pitti> mdz: this affects a very special case in Unicode environments
[08:48] <pitti> mdz: I know about this bug for some time, but since Warty uses the old encodings (latin and such), I don't think this is RC
[08:49] <npmccallum> mdz: pong
[08:50] <pitti> mdz: BTW, 2304 says that downgrading to 1:3.1.3-3 fixes the problem; this is exactly Warty's version :-)
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: only #2307 applies to warty and is a bit nasty
[09:07] <pitti> Kamion: do we install UTF-8 locales for some languages by default?
[09:22] <pitti> Kamion: nevermind, this doesn't matter. #2307 applies to non-UTF-8 locales, too
[09:27] <mdz> pitti: go ahead and NOTWARTY 2307, then, if you would
[09:27] <pitti> mdz: 2307 is warty
[09:27] <pitti> mdz: I just submitted a patch
[09:27] <mdz> pitti: er, 2304 I meant
[09:27] <pitti> mdz: the question is only if it is regarded as RC
[09:27] <pitti> mdz: I already closed the other two, they are notwarty
[09:28] <pitti> mdz: grep works fine for one-byte languages, but fails on this case for the e. g. asian languages (which are multibyte in any case)
[09:29] <Kamion> pitti: some, yes
[09:29] <Kamion> however I'd be slightly surprised if the installer worked entirely smoothly in e.g. ja_JP anyway
[09:29] <pitti> Kamion: I just uploaded a patch for #2307; it is straightforward and I tested it, but _if_ we fix it for warty, I would nevertheless appreciate some more eyes
[09:30] <elmo> err, WTF
[09:30] <pitti> Kamion: I don't think that this affects the installer so much, this case is rather special
[09:30] <elmo> 2211 isn't reproduceable anymore
[09:30] <Kamion> pitti: no, I know, I'm just saying that anyone using exclusively ja_JP has other issues anyway
[09:30] <pitti> Kamion: it might affect maintainer scripts and user's programs
[09:30] <pitti> Kamion: right
[09:30] <Kamion> sight
[09:30] <pitti> Kamion: never tested it, it all looks japanese :-)
[09:31] <elmo> I wonder if it's because the disks were still being scrubbed.. but that's like.. really odd
[09:32] <Kamion> pitti: first stage should be fine, second stage is likely to be broken since jfbterm and unifont are not in warty
[09:33] <doko> Kamion: the {[] }@? keys don't work again on the german PBook keyboard with today's CD.
[09:34] <Kamion> um, nothing's changed recently
[09:35] <mdz> pitti: why do upper and lower not work, but alpha does?
[09:35] <mdz> elmo: maybe it has to do with where the kernel lands on the disk?
[09:35] <doko> /etc/environment looks better, however LANGUAGE="de_DE:de_DE:de:en_GB:en" (doubled de_DE)
[09:35] <mdz> pitti: asian language support in Warty is not necessarily up to par anyway; we haven't tested it
[09:36] <mdz> pitti: it's not worth the risk of changing grep; I'm downgrading it
[09:37] <Kamion> doko: that's cosmetic though
[09:37] <elmo> mdz: that won't have changed tho?
[09:37] <Kamion> (don't know where it comes from)
[09:37] <pitti> mdz: alpha is upper and lower together; the functions are just not interpreted correctly, they forgot to respect --ignore-case
[09:38] <Kamion> oh, incidentally, whoever arranged for the GNOME menus to be ordered from right to left when you're running in a locale whose language is written from right to left deserves a Cleverness Medal
[09:51] <Kamion> last call for RC1 uploads in about 15 minutes by the current schedule ...
[09:51] <Kamion> where's that artwork?
[09:59] <doko> kamion: do I understand you right, that you would prefer merging complete .po files only?
[10:00] <Kamion> doko: it's too late for the release candidate anyway
[10:00] <Kamion> doko: the patches are fine as long as we haven't drifted too far; all of yours applied cleanly
[10:02] <seb128> ok, all the packages out of gnome-session have been uploaded
[10:03] <doko> noticed that the debian packages converted to utf8 for all po files. that would be another patch (after warty).
[10:03] <Kamion> we'll be doing a big resync with d-i after warty anyway
[10:04] <Kamion> that's why I didn't want too many gratuitous changes to strings we haven't changed for Ubuntu
[10:04] <doko> I'll send you the scripts I used for generating the diffs. msgmerge & co do very well.
[10:04] <seb128> somebody had a chance to look on e-d-s amd64 ?
[10:05] <Kamion> doko: OK
[10:05] <Kamion> doko: thanks - I think we've merged as many as we can for warty now, though
[10:06] <Kamion> I looked briefly at the Spanish translation, but those .po files only seemed to be for the changed strings, and I didn't have time for the merge
[10:08] <carlos> Kamion: do you need help with that?
[10:09] <Kamion> carlos: CD builds are starting in an hour at current schedule, it's just too late I'm afraid
[10:09] <carlos> What needs to be done?
[10:11] <Kamion> at the current schedule no more uploads will be accepted for warty
[10:11] <Kamion> anything that touches the d-i initrd requires two hours absolute minimum
[10:12] <Kamion> mdz: we have a server naming question to punt to you
[10:12] <carlos> Kamion: ok
[10:13] <mdz> Kamion: you know I suck at names
[10:13] <Kamion> mdz: sabdfl wants an rsync module containing only current CD images for each current release
[10:13] <Kamion> we can't use cdimage.u.c though, since people are already using it
[10:14] <Kamion> would you and jdub kill us if we stole releases.u.c?
[10:14] <sabdfl> mdz, Kamion, idea is to have a minimal "installer and live cd" mirror possibility for small mirrors
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: hmm
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: cdimages-i-actually-want.ubuntu.com?
[10:16] <mdz> Kamion: releases doesn't sound too bad, as long as we can put something on port 80 as well if we decide we want to
[10:16] <Kamion> unless we can do cdimage::releases/ sanely
[10:16] <mdz> Kamion: I had no plans for it
[10:16] <Kamion> mmmkay, thanks
[10:16] <mdz> a module on the existing cdimage seems simpler, though
[10:17] <mdz> cdimage::current?
[10:17] <doko> discworld.ubuntu.com
[10:17] <mdz> hehe
[10:17] <elmo> mdz: still need non-rsync access
[10:17] <mdz> pratchett.ubuntu.com, for the subtle indirection
[10:18] <mdz> isn't the existing /releases/ pretty much that already?
[10:18] <mdz> we could fold sounder-test and releases/preview into a "milestones" dir
[10:18] <mdz> and use releases/ only for real releases
[10:19] <elmo> we can't move ISOs around without a lot of advance notice
[10:19] <seb128> ok, session seeems to be bugged, we keep 2.8.0
[10:19] <seb128> so all the modules have been uploaded
[10:19] <mdz> seb128: great
[10:19] <seb128> somebody has looked on the e-d-s build ?
[10:20] <mdz> seb128: is that the one which failed on amd64?
[10:20] <seb128> yes
[10:20] <mdz> Mithrandir: ping?
[10:21] <seb128> if somebody has an amd64, it would be nice to run libdb/dist/s_config and run the build again to test
[10:22] <Kamion> I have an amd64 but I haven't got it network-connected, which makes things very awkward
[10:22] <mdz> seb128: I can get you a shell in 5 minutes
[10:23] <seb128> elmo said he installed the build dep in the chroot some time ago
[10:23] <seb128> where is the chroot in question ?
[10:23] <elmo> yellow.warthogs.hbd.com
[10:23] <elmo> you have an account
[10:24] <mdz> argh
[10:24] <seb128> thanks
[10:24] <mdz> WHY does it include its own copy of libdb?
[10:24] <Kamion> mdz: symlinks are fine but as elmo says we can't change what's there already
[10:24] <Kamion> preview was really the last chance we had to do that
[10:25] <seb128> elmo: 
[10:25] <seb128> $ dchroot
[10:25] <seb128> Executing shell in 'warty' chroot.
[10:25] <seb128> Unknown id: seb128
[10:25] <seb128> dchroot: Child exited non-zero.
[10:25] <seb128> dchroot: Operation failed.
[10:25] <elmo> seb128: dchroot -c warty
[10:25] <Kamion> elmo: I don't think sabdfl's too bothered about HTTP access for now (correct me if I'm wrong)
[10:25] <elmo> it's debian dchroot, not debian.org dchroot
[10:25] <seb128> elmo: same
[10:25] <elmo> oh, crap
[10:25] <seb128> warti is the default 
[10:25] <seb128> s/warti/warty/
[10:26] <elmo> seb128: fixed, sorry
[10:26] <Kamion> elmo: people accessing by HTTP can be directed to the right place by means of README.html
[10:27] <elmo> kamion: mmk *shrug*
[10:27] <seb128> elmo: np, thanks
[10:28] <Kamion> is the module best constructed in rsyncd.conf, then, or by symlinks? bit worried about how symlinks will look in the HTTP tree
[10:29] <Kamion> hm, rsyncd.conf can't map paths around arbitrarily
[10:29] <seb128> elmo: 
[10:29] <seb128> wartylog: Couldn't stat source package list http://archive.ubuntu.com ...
[10:30] <seb128> on an "apt-get source evolution-data-server"
[10:30] <seb128> s/wartylog/W:/ (completion ...)
[10:31] <elmo> fixed too
[10:31] <seb128> thanks
[10:31] <elmo> Kamion: where are we going to point http folks?
[10:32] <elmo> cdimage.ubuntu.com/ -> straight into the old layout
[10:32] <Kamion> do we have people mirroring by http?
[10:32] <sabdfl> PANTS OFF!
[10:33] <Kamion> heh, ok
[10:33] <Kamion> bleh
[10:34] <Kamion> would you prefer I created something outside /srv/cdimage/www then, or a new symlink tree inside www?
[10:34] <elmo> for http mirroring, I dunno.. but i bet we have people going to http://cdimage.u.c/ to download stuff, and AIUI we'd rather they went to the simple layout
[10:35] <elmo> Kamion: I think outside, www/ maps to what's in the current tree
[10:35] <Kamion> right, so they'll have to go to http://releases.u.c/ then
[10:35] <Kamion> I wonder if rsync DTRT with symlinks pointing outside the tree you're rsyncing
[10:36] <elmo> no, it won't 
[10:36] <Kamion> arse
[10:36] <Kamion> so I just have to hardlink it?
[10:37] <elmo> kamion: err.  hmm.
[10:37] <sabdfl> we want the simple view for everyone except people who explicitly want the hard one
[10:37] <Kamion> observing that cdimage/releases/warty/ probably needs to continue to exist for a while
[10:37] <sabdfl> sure
[10:37] <daniels> ogg123 '/home/daniels/music/Aphex Twin/Richard D James Album/track01.cdda.ogg'
[10:37] <daniels> (gah)
[10:38] <elmo> daniels: stop pretending you listen to music other than David Hasslehof
[10:38] <Kamion> sabdfl: right, but we have to give that a name other than cdimage now; we're agreed on the principle I think
[10:38] <elmo> kamion: let's make it so www becomes www/simple and www/hardcore (or something) - and I'll adjust the mirror script on my end to DTRT with hardlinks
[10:39] <sabdfl> can i see it before it's committed please?
[10:39] <Kamion> www/full then
[10:39] <Kamion> sabdfl: we're not going to change the existing cdimage tree, we're creating a new one; so it's probably as easy to commit it and then show you ...
[10:39] <sabdfl> point :-)
[10:39] <daniels> otoh, having 'hardcore' in the name will increase our google-fu
[10:40] <Kamion> bugger, ok, need to rearrange a bunch of scripts now
[10:40] <elmo> Kamion: me too - don't trigger before I fix my end :>
[10:45] <carlos> elmo: I just got an email from a Spanish admin that is mirroring Ubuntu every 6 hours
[10:45] <mdz> seb128: it looks like the code is simply duplicated
[10:45] <mdz> seb128: maybe a wrong merge?
[10:46] <carlos> elmo: he says that he sent an email as wiki asks but he did not got any answer and asks for permission to update the wiki with his mirror info
[10:46] <seb128> mdz: commenting 760L fixes the build apparently
[10:46] <seb128> libdb/dbinc/mutex.h, 760L
[10:46] <carlos> what should I answer?
[10:46] <seb128> do you think it's ok ?
[10:46] <seb128> /*typedef unsigned char tsl_t;*/
[10:47] <mdz> seb128: the entire HAVE_MUTEX_X86_64_GCC_ASSEMBLY block is duplicated in both places
[10:47] <mdz> one of them should be removed
[10:47] <mdz> they both define all of the same types and macros
[10:47] <mdz> the code is identical in both cases
[10:47] <mdz> the only difference is indentation
[10:47] <seb128> ok, we just remove the libdb/dbinc/mutex.h one so ?
[10:47] <mdz> seb128: there are two in mutex.h, I'm saying
[10:47] <seb128> hum
[10:47] <mdz> 731 and 756
[10:48] <mdz> both #ifdef HAVE_MUTEX_X86_64_GCC_ASSEMBLY
[10:48] <seb128> oups, yes
[10:48] <seb128> why ?
[10:48] <elmo> carlos: it's fine for him to edit the wiki
[10:48] <carlos> ok
[10:48] <carlos> thanks
[10:49] <mdz> seb128: perhaps a bad merge?
[10:49] <mdz> anyway, I deleted the first one
[10:49] <mdz> and it is building
[10:49] <seb128> ok
[10:50] <seb128> you're going to upload it ?
[10:50] <mdz> sure
[10:51] <mdz> if you don't want to
[10:52] <seb128> if you've made the changes, just debuild -S and upload please :)
[10:53] <mdz> I made the changes, but I didn't do a dpatch
[10:53] <seb128> don't
[10:53] <mdz> no?
[10:53] <seb128> that's using cdbs and simply-patch
[10:54] <seb128> not dpatch
[10:54] <mdz> ah
[10:54] <seb128> you just remove the first block ?
[10:54] <mdz> so you want me to just put the changes in the diff? or do I need to figure out how to make a patch with cdbs?
[10:54] <mdz> yes
[10:54] <mdz> correct
[10:54] <seb128> ok, I'm doing the upload
[10:54] <seb128> don't bother
[10:54] <elmo> gar, having a desktop/laptop with reversed ~ and | is really MESSING WITH MY BRAIN
[10:55] <mdz> seb128: 25 lines starting at 731
[10:55] <seb128> ok, thanks
[10:55] <mdz> thom: load a dvorak keymap, just as good
[10:56] <thom> i could just replace it with a french keyboar
[10:56] <thom> d
[10:56] <mdz> thom: confuse the hell out of the remote hands guy
[10:56] <thom> but that'd be too painful for words
[10:56] <thom> mdz: lol
[10:56] <thom> mdz: trouble is, that'd inevitably mean i'd end up in the DC to fix the problem
[11:00] <Kamion> sabdfl: so, right now, the simple tree ought to contain the preview? or sounder 9?
[11:00] <sabdfl> kamion: only the latest, greatest one
[11:00] <sabdfl> the one we want people testing
[11:00] <sabdfl> and the name of the file should reflect that
[11:01] <Kamion> that's hard on rsyncers
[11:01] <Kamion> if you want this to be ideal for mirrors, the name of the file shouldn't change all the time
[11:01] <Kamion> we can have a README file in the same directory saying what it is
[11:02] <sabdfl> umm... what about symlinks?
[11:02] <sabdfl> i'd much rather the name istranferred with download
[11:02] <Kamion> I guess, but you can't tell remotely that they're symlinks
[11:02] <Kamion> and it might confuse bittorrent
[11:02] <sabdfl> the guy ends up with a file that says "warty-sounder9-i386.iso"
[11:02] <sabdfl> he knows what he got
[11:03] <Kamion> this is a fundamental conflict between making life sane for mirrors and letting the user know what he's got
[11:03] <Kamion> I think README is a good compromise
[11:03] <sabdfl> it's at most a refresh every week
[11:03] <sabdfl> except during release period
[11:03] <sabdfl> symlinks seem better to me
[11:04] <sabdfl> only thing is directing the user to the well-named symlink
[11:04] <Kamion> if we're calling it warty-sounder9-i386.iso then that should probably be the *only* name, no symlink
[11:04] <sabdfl> what about:
[11:04] <Kamion> symlinks will just create "which one do I download?" confusion, and occasionally cause people to download two identical images by mistake
[11:04] <sabdfl>   - /pool/warty-current-i386.iso
[11:05] <sabdfl>   - /warty/warty-sounder9-i386.iso -> ../pool/warty-current-i386.iso
[11:05] <sabdfl> that way people will go into the warty directory and go for the one they want
[11:05] <Kamion> your pool is my full cdimage tree, apart from size :)
[11:05] <sabdfl> the mirrors will spend most of their time rsyncing against the previous iso, which would be good
[11:05] <sabdfl> size does matter in this special case :-)
[11:06] <Kamion> it'll end up as /pool/warty-install-i386.iso and /warty/warty-install-sounder9-i386.iso, I think
[11:06] <Kamion> hm, no, warty-sounder9-install-i386.iso
[11:06] <Kamion> elmo: what do you think?
[11:09] <sabdfl> what's the vi voodoo to reflow a paragraph?
[11:09] <Kamion> gqip
[11:10] <sabdfl> kamion: for for safety we do have sounder, preview, rc and final cd's in the pool?
[11:10] <Kamion> or gq} to reflow to end of paragraph
[11:10] <Kamion> sabdfl: people who want older ones have the full tree
[11:10] <sabdfl> yes, agreed
[11:11] <Kamion> if we're not convinced by the newer one, we shouldn't be declaring it to be the one everyone should be using :)
[11:11] <sabdfl> erm, that didn't work so well on my python code
[11:11] <sabdfl> oops
[11:11] <sabdfl> is there a way to limit it to a selection?
[11:12] <Kamion> v to enter visual mode; move over range; gq
[11:12] <Kamion> assuming vim
[11:12] <sabdfl> ah, perfect, thanks!
[11:12] <Kamion> I'm going to need an ubuntu-release script at this rate
[11:12] <Kamion> bet that'll be well-tested
[11:15] <Keybuk> make damn-it-all-to-hell-im-going-to-bed
[11:15] <Keybuk> (best run on Friday night, for maximum damage :p)
[11:16] <Kamion> personally I'm just glad cdimage is effectively backed up all over the world now
[11:17] <sabdfl> Kamion: one more, for the bonus prize!
[11:17] <sabdfl> how do i autocomplete a word, searching forward in the doc?
[11:17] <Kamion> sabdfl: Ctrl-n
[11:17] <sivang> sabdfl : you recieved anything from jdub regarding default home page?
[11:17] <Kamion> (I think)
[11:18] <sabdfl> wow, works!
[11:18] <sabdfl> thanks
[11:18] <sabdfl> sivang: not yet
[11:18] <Kamion> Ctrl-p searches backwards
[11:18] <Kamion> elmo: ok, I have www/simple/ and www/full/ now; www/full/ is what used to be www/
[11:18] <Kamion> elmo: let me know when you're ready for a sync
[11:19] <Kamion> it's a bit steam-driven, I'll probably use the time between now and 7am to automate it :P
[11:27] <elmo> Kamion: k
[11:27] <sivang> sabdfl : regarding docs, as agreed on the meeting this is more of a Hoary material, however do we have sufficient docs for _users_ IYO per this release? (on ubuntu.com) or leave this entirly to Hoary?
[11:29] <mdz> sivang: sufficient docs has always been a Hoary goal
[11:29] <mdz> for Warty, our goal was to organize the existing documentation
[11:31] <sivang> mdz : ok. proceding with streamlining current yelp accessible docs for Ubuntu, due by the 18th.
[11:31] <sivang> mdz : that is , the gnome2-user-guide
[11:32] <mdz> sivang: streamlining?
[11:32] <hornbeck> mdz: I think he means making them more Ubuntu specific
[11:33] <sivang> mdz : fetching 2.8 docs from CVS, makig sure it fits ubuntu perfectly and adjust when needed. (removable media )
[11:33] <sivang> mdz : etc
[11:33] <sivang> mdz : dealing with rmov. media is one aspect I guess, but than again there might not be any work needed other than that :)
[11:33] <hornbeck> sivang: I already have most of the 2.8 gnome-user-guide ready, just need it packaged
[11:35] <mdz> sivang: there are many differences apart from removable media
[11:36] <mdz> Ubuntu's default menu structureis completely different
[11:36] <sivang> mdz : yes ofcourse, I was  just trying to make you understand what I meant :-)
[11:37] <sivang> mdz : this is this first thing you notice after install, this and that you have no icons on the desktop :)
[11:53] <hornbeck> seb128: thanks for packageing for us doc guys :)
[11:53] <seb128> np
[11:53] <seb128> thanks for making docs work :)
[11:53] <hornbeck> we try
[11:59] <elmo> Kamion: your trigger is wrapped in a script and/or only called in one place, right?