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highvoltagehi guys. the meeting here starts in two hours, right? is anyone welcome?04:08
thomsee http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/council/document_view04:12
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hornbeckIs the meeting in one hour?05:07
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sabdfl] : Community Council meeting Tuesday 12 October 2004
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:sabdfl] : Community Council meeting Tuesday 12 October 2004 | Agenda on wiki.ubuntulinux.org/CommunityCouncilAgenda
sivangand it starts...05:59
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sabdflstill missing a few06:01
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sabdflKamion, elmo, mako06:01
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sabdflone down06:01
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sivangpaged mako06:02
sabdflanybody seen mako this morning?06:02
sivangah, he's 20hrs idle..06:02
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highvoltageanyone have his phone number :)06:03
sabdfli think he was up late last night06:03
mdzI can SMS Him06:03
sabdflmdz: go for it06:03
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sabdflshould we begin sans elmo and mako?06:04
sabdflhopefully they will join us. elmo is certainly needed for the release process infrastructure06:04
Keybukelmo was around a short while ago06:05
sabdflhey Keybuk06:05
sabdfllet's start, elmo will catch up on scrollback06:05
mdzmessaged him; the number I have for him is still a Seattle number, though06:05
mdzhopefully he hasn't changed it yet06:05
sivangi have already did06:05
sabdfloh, i forgot he's on east coast time now, should *def* be up06:06
sabdflwell lets start06:06
sabdfli put a few thoughts down this morning, there was nothing there yet06:06
mdzmako says he's 20-30 minutes away06:06
sabdfllet's try to keep this one short, we all have release work to do i suspect06:07
sabdflsivang has this afternoon proposed Documentation Team and Accessibility Team discussion, but i'd like to defer till the next meeting06:07
mdzseconded :-)06:07
sabdflsivang: these are mainly Hoary goals, we need to get Warty out the door06:08
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sivangI see.06:08
sabdflalso sivang i didn't see any mention of enrico in your wiki pages, it's really important that he be in the loop, i dont want to have two separate teams06:08
sivangsabdfl : I have tried contacting him, he hasn't replied me yet.06:09
sabdflsivang: feel free to ping me privately on irc with an update over the next week06:09
sivangsabdfl : I don't mind postponing it for the next meeting, I will try to get in contact with again.06:09
sabdfli'll ask him to respond to you06:10
sabdflso: warty release06:10
sivangok, that'll be swell, I just think we need to formalize this..06:10
sabdflmdz, want to give us the rundown?06:10
mdzoverall, we seem to be in good shape for tomorrow06:10
mdzfinal artwork integration remains to be done06:11
mdzand there is one big bug left on the live CD06:11
sabdflon the artwork06:11
mdznothing else that would upset me if we missed it for tomorrow06:11
sabdflsent a set of images to jdub this morning06:11
sabdflmissing one final image which i think just arrived in my inbox...06:11
Keybukare all the GNOME 2.8.1 tarballs in?06:11
Keybuk(in upstream, as well as in warty)06:12
mdzI don't have a list, but seb has uploaded many06:12
sabdflneed to massage formats, but will get it to jdub this evening06:12
Kamionevolution-data-server failed to build on amd64, may need attention, I think seb128 has clocked off for a while06:12
sabdflKeybuk: could you ping seb128 and confirm?06:12
Keybukyeah will ask him when he's back online06:13
KeybukI don't know whether they've all trickled in upstream yet, either.  He'd know, I expect06:13
sabdflok, so that remains to be confirmed06:13
sabdflwhat's the big bug in the live cd?06:13
mdzhal doesn't start06:14
mdzalex says he will have a workaround tomorrow06:14
pittiI would have liked to debug this, but I don't even come this far with the Life CD06:14
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mdzbut that leaves us with no time to test the live CD; hopefully there are no regressions06:14
mdzpitti: I already debugged it for him06:14
mdzhe knows what to do06:14
mdzbut currently it seems that alex is the only one who can build a working live CD06:15
mdzthe autobuilding scripts do not produce a working image yet06:15
pittiBTW, regarding the life CD: shall #2292 regarded as major?06:15
pittiseems to work for some users, so probably not06:15
mdzI don't know, you just reported it today and I haven't read my mail yet :-)06:15
pittibut I don't know how many people actually tested it06:16
mdzit works well for me06:16
pittiokay, then we defer that06:16
sabdflok, got the final image, and will get it to jdub immediately06:16
mdzand there have been many downloads, but no other reports06:16
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highvoltageIf I may ask, have the APM kernel support problems been sorted out?06:17
sabdflwould we like the RC to be good enough to be a release if we get no new major reports?06:17
sabdflhighvoltage: do you have a bug #?06:17
mdzsabdfl: yes06:17
highvoltagesabdfl: I'll go check...06:17
sabdfli agree06:17
mdzI would very much like to release the RC as final06:17
sabdfltomorrow, or by certifying it that way on 20th?06:18
mdzthe live CD is my biggest concern there06:18
mdzsabdfl: well, it'd just be too cute for it to go out on my birthday...:-)06:18
mdzlet's see how we feel about the RC once it's in hand06:19
highvoltagesabdfl: The problem I've experienced relate to bug: 1890 and bug 200206:19
sabdfldo you want to actually announce it as the final tomorrow?06:19
Kamionthe installation manual is still very raw; I've made a fair effort at branding it, but it's very recent and few people have looked at it06:19
mdzI don't want to commit to that until I've seen the RC06:19
mdzbut I think we should be open to the possibility06:19
sabdflok, i think this is optimistic, but share the feeling it would be *great* to get it out the door06:20
sabdflso working on that basis....06:20
mdzKamion: the installation manual isn't shipped on the CD, so it can slip06:20
sabdflwhat time can we build it tonight?06:20
Kamionmdz: look more closely :)06:20
sabdflI think it shold get at least a "Release Candidate Candidate" announcement and overnight smash testing by #ubuntu06:20
mdzin theory, both Kamion and I can build CDs06:20
mdzKamion: ah, right.  nobody reads that copy, though :-)06:21
sabdflah, 24x7, i like it :-)06:21
mdzso between us, we have fairly continuous time zone coverage06:21
Kamionsabdfl: we need one more debian-installer upload, which I have in hand06:21
Kamionsabdfl: but I'm waiting for a few last builds first06:21
mdzand then elmo needs to process it by hand06:21
Kamionlet's say c. 2000 UTC06:21
sabdflok, so artwork needs to get in, anything else?06:21
sabdflwill jdub be around before then?06:21
Kamionmdz: I'll be up all night if necessary anyway, same as preview06:21
Kamiongot plenty of sleep last night in prep :)06:22
mdzour kernel isn't 100% on every single piece of hardware that's been tested yet, but that was a rather optimistic goal06:22
sabdflis it... a little warty?06:22
KamionUSB keyboards still appear intermittently screwed, see bugs06:22
mdzthat's currently 5 of the remaining RC bugs06:22
=== sabdfl ducks
sabdflis Herbert up for it?06:22
mdzthese problems just take a long time to debug, due to the back-and-forth with the reporter06:22
mdzif we could mail herbert a clone of each machine that failed, I expect they'd be fixed quickly :-)06:23
sabdflteleportation is now just an engineering problem, you know06:23
mdzwhat about that pesky Uncertainty Principle?06:23
KeybukHeisenberg Compensators, you can get them on e-bay06:23
mdzthe Heisenberg Comp...06:24
sabdflmdz: are you willing to sign off on it with the RC bugs that exist? downgrading those to "slipped"06:24
mdzKamion: beat me to it06:24
Kamionthe problem with the USB keyboard bugs is that they're totally impossible to debug because no interaction with the machine is possible06:24
Kamionmdz: YM Keybuk?06:24
mdzsabdfl: I'm going to downgrade the kernel stuff right now06:24
mdzKamion: yes06:24
Henrikmdz: You don't have to transport exact info on each particle, just molecules. So, that's ok.06:24
sabdflhmm... bummer is, the guy never even makes it to the point where he can download updated packages, does he?06:24
mdzanother bug currently marked RC is the lack of a local copy of the default browser start page06:24
sabdflsivang: ?06:25
hornbeckjdub has it06:25
mdzI don't feel particularly RC about that one today06:25
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sabdfli can draft the copy, right away06:25
mdzbut it's easy06:25
sabdflshould reference ubuntu, linux, gnome, debian, openoffice I think06:25
sabdflwhat url for linux?06:25
Kamionthere've been installer changes today which should be safe but I'd like a bit of testing tonight06:26
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mdzwhichever URL for Linux we use on the website06:26
Kamionmostly the base-installer thing for mdz06:26
sabdfli don't know that we do06:26
highvoltagewill Ubuntu 4.1 support Propability drive?06:26
mdzhighvoltage: only finite improbability06:26
Kamionit's 4.10 :)06:26
mdzthe infinite improbability drive is a Hoary problem06:26
sivangsabdfl : sorring, reading scrollback before06:26
Kamionhmm, we could time-travel and release in January 200406:26
highvoltageKamion: sorry- my floating point support is still under development06:27
Kamionmdz: really HOT cup of tea06:27
sabdflthat would be 4.0106:27
highvoltagethat would be nice :)06:27
sabdflk let's move on06:27
mdzthe 4.1 vs. 4.10 thing comes up a lot06:27
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Kamionaye. highvoltage, use fixed-point :)06:27
sabdflrelease process06:27
sabdflwhat times?06:27
mdzsabdfl: shall we load-test the website before the release announcement this time?06:27
sabdflhow do we do that?06:28
KamionCD build tonight earliest of (2000 UTC, whenever-artwork-hits)06:28
highvoltageslashdot :)06:28
Kamionheavy testing06:28
sabdfli'm working on a wiki page:06:28
mdzsabdfl: a few folks on nearby fast links06:28
mdzhammering with ab or something simple like that06:28
Kamiondo we use tomorrow's daily, or tonight's build?06:28
Keybukmdz: aren't 1922 and 2261 both the same bug?06:28
Kamionab tends to max out the client06:28
sabdflkamion: tonight's unless mdz finds a problem06:28
mdzKeybuk: dunno, haven't looked at either one, please make the less informative one a dupe if so06:28
sabdflsivang says he's sent a draft to jdub, i'll need to review please06:29
Kamionthen we'd better make sure that http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~cjwatson/testing/ is clear06:29
Keybukmdz: they're both RC06:29
Kamionwhich it currently isn't06:29
Kamionevolution and firefox locale problems06:29
mdzKeybuk: one has the thermal modules failing immediately, the other has kacpid randomly spinning off into nowhere-land06:29
sabdfllet's let the tech board decide when it's ready to go, CC just needs to agree the process06:30
mdzelmo: do you have contact information for all mirrors?06:30
thomfor firefox locale, i think the best fix is just to remove -es and -gl, sadly06:30
mdzI added a note to the wiki requesting it06:30
Keybukmdz: the reason the fans don't start is because kacpid is spinning -- or perhaps kacpid is spinning because the fans won't start (pick one)06:30
elmomdz: err, no, how could I ?06:30
elmomdz: I have a bunch of mails from folks, but it's not nor ever going to be 'all' mirrors06:30
mdzelmo: you know what I mean06:31
mdzthe ones we list on our web pages06:31
Keybukthe NC6000 and NC8000 are, for all intents and purposes, identical laptops (and identical to my NC4010 which exibits the same problems)06:31
carlosthom: What's the exact problem with them?06:31
mdzKeybuk: I didn't see a mention of kacpid spinning in 2261, but please mark it as a dupe if I missed something06:32
carlosthom: bug number?06:32
sabdflKamion: so build will be ready UTC200006:32
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mdzKamion, thom: do we need to generate torrents by hand, or is that fully automated now?06:32
sabdflcan we announce that build on #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu and mailing lists06:32
Kamionsabdfl: that's earliest start time, not finish time06:32
Kamionmdz: fully automated06:33
sabdflKamion: UTC 2200?06:33
Kamionbut we don't have jigdo yet (crap, I need to forward that mail from Steve to thom+elmo, will do so after the meeting06:33
Kamionsabdfl: sounds like a reasonably conservative estimate06:33
sabdflle's not worry about jigdo at this point, hoary problem06:33
sabdflkamion: ok UTC 220006:34
thomcarlos: we don't have them for firefox 0.906:34
thomthe ones in unstable are for 0.8, and i've not found 0.9 ones06:34
Kamionwe have nearly all the pieces for jigdo, it's a very short piece of assembly now06:34
sabdflKamion: will you please announce that to lists and irc and ask the willing to test and report any showstoppers?06:34
thomif you can point me in the right place i'll look after the meeting06:34
mdzlet's leave ourselves some slack for a second build&test cycle06:34
KamionI think we should try given Steve's effort, and we can always finish it after release if need be06:34
sabdflKamion: unnecessary distraction tonight06:34
Kamionmdz: 2200 is loads of slack :)06:34
carlosthom: ok, let me check06:34
mdzFYI, we do not currently have any last-minute surprises of the sort that we expected for the preview06:34
Kamionsabdfl: let's say a post-RC problem rather than a hoary problem then, this doesn't need archive changes so doesn't need to be bumped as far as hoary06:35
sabdflok, ten how long do we want to leave that open for testing before we publish the RC?06:35
sabdflKamion: agreed06:35
sabdflwe can do it this week no problem06:35
mdzrealistically it takes a bit over an hour to get a full set built, downloaded and tested06:36
Kamionmdz: that was at full panicky tilt :)06:36
sabdflwill take people an hour to download06:36
sabdfland maybe an hour to install and play06:36
KamionI hadn't even finished a single install when we released the preview, FWIW06:36
sabdfland an hour to report06:36
sabdflso lets give it 8 hours of testing, taking us through to 0600 UTC06:37
mdzlong night for UK folks :-)06:37
sabdflsounds like a good time to move it to the right place in the archive as RC06:37
sabdflor as final06:37
Kamionelmo: can I talk to you after the meeting about the simple cdimage rsync layout?06:38
mdzsabdfl: can we get some committed time from non-ubuntu Canonical folks to test the RC?06:38
sabdflmdz: good idea, yes06:38
elmokamion: sure?06:38
highvoltagewill a copy of this meeting be available for download?06:38
mdzhighvoltage: it's logged in the same place as other ubuntu channels06:39
highvoltageah, ok. thanks06:39
sabdflso if we publish it in the right place at 0600 UTC, how long before the mirrors have it?06:39
sabdfli'd like the web page to list as many mirrors as possible when it gets /.d06:39
sabdflboth of them, at least :-p06:39
mdzthere are 8 mirrors in the wiki06:40
mdzelmo: how many of those do you have contact info for?06:40
sabdflso what's the optimal release time?06:41
mdzwe have no idea what their sync schedule is06:41
sabdflwe want the US awake I guess, but we don't want Europe more asleep than usual06:41
mdzthey're just mirrors that people have added to the wiki06:41
=== sabdfl ducks again
elmothere's no way we can assume any sort of schedule for the mirrors06:41
elmowe either have to sit on the RC for a day, or take the hit from it not being on most of the mirrors06:41
sabdflok, but i suppose we could kee an eye on them, and as they populate we could manually add them to the page06:42
sabdfli'd like direct links to the right directory from the download page06:42
mdzelmo: but if we have an email address, we can tell them about the RC and try to get a commitment for a timely update06:42
Kamionor there's the "release on the 20th" approach ...06:42
elmomdz: err, these guys are mirrors, just like Debian mirrors.  06:42
sabdflwhat about naming? if we call it -rc it will take another sync cycle before they get it as final06:42
elmoI don't know what makes you think we can ask for a commitment on anything, least of all < 24 hours before we want it to happen06:43
sabdflso best we be certain06:43
sabdflelmo: chill06:43
mdzelmo: I don't see how it can hurt to ask; it's easy to verify whether they have it or not before we put them on the web page06:43
sabdflwe'll simply update the web page manually as they sync06:43
justdaveOSUOSL will pull on a dime if you ask them to06:43
justdavedon't know about the others06:43
elmojustdave: no, they won't06:43
sabdflOSUOSL is not mirroring, i don't think06:43
sabdflthey only mirror community projects06:44
sabdfland red hat06:44
sabdfland suse06:44
justdaveoh, they're not?  okay, thought I heard they were earlier06:44
sabdfli'm sure they will, soon06:44
elmomdz: I think it's offensive to ask, but mileage clearly varies06:44
sabdflelmo: agreed06:44
sabdflalthough I can nudge the safricans06:44
sabdfllet's not ask unless it's a mate06:44
highvoltageI'm a safrican06:44
mdzworks for me06:44
sabdflanyhow, we have 1 gbit/s if we can saturate it from London06:45
sabdflthere are no caps on that link06:45
mdzwe'll saturate end-to-end paths first06:45
HenrikWhen I release TheOpenCD I always send a polite email to the mirrors, and the response is usually good06:45
sabdflelmo: can we push out 1 gbit/s from auckland?06:45
elmosabdfl: no06:45
elmothe HW can't do it06:45
sabdflwhat's the limit?06:45
sabdflis auckland on
mdzthe I/O on that box isn't even close06:46
KeybukI imagine you just can't shovel 1Gbps from the disk, across the bus and out the nic06:46
elmosabdfl: no06:46
mdzfrom the disk, certainly not06:46
sabdflok, let's not rock the boatnow06:46
elmoit was one of the "don't touch" boxes06:46
mdzthat's over 100mbyte/sec06:46
mdzof course, that stuff should all be in RAM...06:47
elmoit can do 35MB/s sustained06:47
sabdflhmm... but a lot of it should be in RAM06:47
mdzthat's fairly crap considering the class of hardware06:47
elmowhat on earth do you think is going to be in RAM?  we'll be lucky if it keeps the few commonly hit things we have in RAM06:47
mdzelmo: it doesn't have the requisite terabyte of RAM?06:47
sabdflhmmm... that's a surprisingly low number06:47
mdzwe're talking about ~0.5GB of stuff that'll be hit HARD06:48
sabdfli would have though the iso would be in the filesystem cache06:48
elmomdz: what do you think that 0.5Gb is?06:48
mdzelmo: the i386 CD image06:48
Kamionmdz: how about the archive? that's going to be hit fairly hard too06:48
elmoand all the random .debs from the 24Gb archive.. it'sgoing to know to not bring those into memory too?06:48
mdzI don't see why the rest-of-the-archive load would be _that_ much higher06:49
mdzthere will be very few folks doing pure network installs, there'll be very little to upgrade, so it's basically just new package installs from supported/universe06:49
Keybukmdz: the point is, as soon as one person does one, it'll punt the iso image out of the page cache to make room06:50
elmoyou're assuming all our existing users are current06:50
elmoand auckland is busy 24/7 with downloads06:50
elmothe HD lights literally do not go out nowadays06:50
mdzI'm not; I'm assuming the load caused by our existing users won't change much06:50
elmoit might not change, but I think you're seriously underestimating it, if you think it won't be enough to push the i386 ISO out of cache06:50
KamionI think most of them will go and hit apt-get upgrade as soon as the announcement goes out06:50
sabdflare you guys happy to announce at 1200 UTC?06:51
elmolike, right now it's serving 80Mb/s06:51
elmoif we really want to serve the ISO out of RAM, we should put it on a different, dedicated box, IMO06:51
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elmoI don't see how else we can guarantee dedicated cache mem for it06:51
mdzmako just called, says he'll be on in a few06:52
sabdflelmo: promse to get you better h/w for Hoary. if there's no way to load balance this now, let's just see how it goes06:52
mdzsabdfl: 1200 works for me06:52
sabdflmdz: early06:52
KamionI think we should review that at around 0200, see how things are going06:52
sabdflbut then, maybe that makes it easier on the bandwidth?06:52
sabdflin fact, an earlier announcement will tend to make the bandwidth move in a wave with timezones06:53
mdzelmo: we do have a few spares, do we have one which is installed and online that we could use in that role?06:53
elmowe could put it on one of the dell's/HP's sure06:53
sabdflelmo: it could just be a temp web server, which ONLY serves the release directory (i386, ppc, amd64, livecd)06:53
sabdfland we point the web page at that06:53
sabdflauckland can continue to serve the crowd06:54
sabdflmirrors continue as per usual06:54
mdzelmo: we could also put a squid accelerator in for cdimage only06:54
sabdflthat way we get 35MB/s packages, and at least the same ISO's06:54
sabdflsimpler to have a second server06:54
Kamion[debian-installer upload complete; should start building shortly.] 06:54
sabdflelmo: want to stress test a dell? they're the fastest boxes, remember06:55
sabdflkthxbye :-)06:55
mdzauckland wasn't up to it for the preview; it's not clear how big the RC will be06:55
mdzit if ends up being final, I expect it'll be bigger than preview06:55
Keybuksabdfl: you want to break it?06:55
sabdfloh, ok, hp then06:55
mdzdon't hurt the poor Dell06:55
sabdflmaybe we should load up an hp and a dell06:55
sabdfland be ready to switch if there's a glitch06:55
sabdflok, so let's talk media06:56
elmomdz: how do you mean not up for it?06:56
thomrsync them and round robin the cdimage record *shrug*06:56
elmothe box itself coped fine - apache didn't but that was a misconfig which has been fixed now AFAIK06:56
sabdfllwn, debian lists, ubuntu lists, python lists06:56
sabdflwhere else?06:57
mdzelmo: so apart from the uplink being maxed out, everything was hunky dory?06:57
thom /. ?06:57
ograsabdfl: german heise06:57
elmomdz: on auckland?  yes06:57
mdzit was slow when I tried to access it from chinstrap at the time06:57
Keybukdistrowatch, slashdot, osnews, jdub has a list of things06:57
sabdflthom: i don't know if the CSS / JS issue has been solved06:57
mdzbut that could have been the apache problem, I suppose06:57
thomsabdfl: it appears to have been06:57
elmomdz: ftp was fine from chinstrap06:57
sabdflok, will get jdub to add to the list when he's up06:57
sabdflspeaking of which, we can't go without jdub being awake06:57
sabdflhe has the homepage and the artwork06:57
sabdflthom: great, thanks06:58
Keybuk(btw, did anyone else we passed Gentoo in the Distrowatch chart? :p)06:58
mdzthat stuff needs to go in well before the final build anyway06:58
elmowe should ship everyone to one place for these releases to defeat timezones06:58
mdzKeybuk: I noticed we were top 10 like 2 weeks ago06:58
Keybukmdz: we're #7 now06:58
mdzwe were #9 then06:58
mdznot bad for a <1-month old distribution06:58
thomsabdfl: ie, everything is being served from the apache cache, and we're able to sustain 70 requests/sec from off network06:58
mdzelmo: the international ubuntu command and control center06:59
mdzor IUCC (pronounced "yuck")06:59
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mdzmako: we're going over specifics of the release announcements07:00
=== mako is very sorry for the late arrival.. i got here as quickly as i could
makomdz: i will catch up on the log07:00
elmomdz: is cricket meant to DTRT with Gb ?07:00
sabdflok, i'm all done, anything from the tech board?07:00
mdzelmo: depends07:01
mdzelmo: do you have 64-bit snmp counters available?07:01
elmomdz: err, I dunno07:01
sabdflmdz: all yours to sign off on the release07:01
sabdfli'd like a say if it's going to be final as well07:01
sabdflartwork, and homepage, and i'm happy07:01
sabdflKeybuk: the calendar thing is ready to rock, right?07:01
mdzI have my Big Red Launch Button prepared07:01
=== sabdfl says hopefully
Keybuksabdfl: yeah, provided jdub sets the artwork up right -- I left sufficient documentation in the package07:02
sabdflwill you verify when he's up and the artwork is in for mdz?07:02
Keybukyup, sure07:02
Keybukit needs to be made the default in the default session too?07:02
sabdflmako, elmo, anything from you guys?07:02
mdzelmo: did you get some sleep?07:03
makono.. not right now07:03
sabdfli'm going to try to get six hours sleep tonight to be fresh for the announcements07:03
elmosabdfl: no, don't think so07:03
elmomdz: not enough to prepare for the next 24 hours, I suspect :P07:03
sabdflwill be drafting announcements in the morning, mako, jdub wiki-fy your ideas and i'll work over them07:03
mdzI plan to try for at least a 20-minute nap myself07:04
sabdflok, we're done. good luck guys07:04
mdzlessons learned and all that07:04
makoagain: sorry i missed the meeting..07:04
mako i'll reread everything and write a summary as i did two weeks ago07:04
sabdflthanks mako07:04
sabdflanything from guests?07:04
Keybukjust checked, the calendar is the default -- so we just need the artwork07:05
sabdflcalendar should not be defailt07:05
Keybukshouldn't it?07:05
sabdflwe have one with just the ubuntu logo07:05
sabdflwill get fewer right wing emails that way07:05
Keybukthat'll need a seb-upload to change07:05
sabdflok, Keybuk please coordinate07:06
Keybukactually, jdub can probably do that one07:06
Keybukit's just a schema change07:06
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pittiBTW, somebody asked for 2.8.1 gnome packages07:06
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makotoday is not turning out to be my best day :-/07:11
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Technical Board meeting Tuesday 19 October 2004 | Agenda on wiki.ubuntulinux.org/TechnicalBoardAgenda
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