Kamionelmo: it's wrapped in a script12:01
Kamionhey, you can even branch off it in tla if you want me to change it ;)12:02
=== elmo beats kamion with a +6 rust-proof sword of subversion
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-78.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kamion zaps elmo with a wide-angle disintegration beam
Kamion(lucky he's disint-resistant, eh?)12:04
mdzBut wait!  elmo's medallion begins to glow!12:04
sivangthe medallion reflects back the disintegration beam to the Sun...12:05
=== Kamion summons Archons. Destroy elmo, my servants!
Kamionsivang: aha, you have not yet been infected by a certain game ...12:05
sivangKamion : quite not, waston my friend, quite not..:)12:06
Kamionelmo: anyway, yeah, tla kinda seemed appropriate at the time given the context :P12:07
sabdfloh dear12:07
sabdfltime for some potions of rejuvenation12:08
sabdfla.k.a. sleeping pills for the warty team12:08
sivangsleep ? who us? sl-eep? what does the word mean anyway?12:08
=== Kamion writes a theoretically-might-work publish-release script
amUmdz: i'm upping a new iso, your ati problem is fixed, with packages from 23h CEST 12:09
mdzamU: great, URL?12:09
=== mdz looks at the clock
amU.... upping now, ETA is 2h    12:10
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-78.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
elmogar.  stupid torrent.12:10
mdzKamion: ready to do the CD build?12:10
amUelmo: who many users has the torrentserver ? mine broke at about online 500 users :( 12:12
amUs/online 500/500 online/12:13
Kamionmdz: only when elmo gives me the ack to sync to auckland again12:14
mdzamU: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/12:15
elmokamion: yeah, I'm setting up releases on another machine sorry12:15
Kamionthat's OK, just letting mdz know the status12:15
elmookay, you're good to sync12:17
elmoI haven't done releases yet, but I've fixed auckland12:18
KamionI'll run through a test sync first12:18
Kamionshould be going now12:18
=== elmo just actually saw this layout
Kamion22:04 < sabdfl>   - /pool/warty-current-i386.iso12:20
Kamionopen to better names?12:20
sabdflelmo: great ideas show up in the oddest places :-)12:20
Kamionit *is* a bit, er, conflated12:21
sabdfl.pool might be more sekrit12:21
mdzkids these days...12:21
sabdfldon't put warty here?12:21
mdz"don't put warez here"12:21
elmowell, err, like, why have a pool?  the point of pool is to handle things (.deb's, .iso's) which appear in multiple things (suites/releases/whatever)12:21
elmoand we don't seem to do that with ISOs really?12:21
sabdflelmo: this is a place to put the "current" release so rsync's work well12:21
mdzwe do when we decide we want a different layout :-)12:21
mdzput everything into the pool once, and symlink into the layout du jour12:22
sabdflthe symblinks give them a meaningful name, depending on where they are in the release cycle12:22
Kamionelmo: main issue we have is calling the ISOs warty-sounder9-install-i386.iso to keep sabdfl happy as above, while not screwing over mirrors completely on every update if the delta is small12:22
elmoerr, ok12:22
sabdflit's because (a) i want real names for the files ("warty-sounder9-i386.iso") and (b) kamion wants names that don't change for sensible mirroring12:22
sabdflif we can have a .dpwh dir which is larely hidden that makes me even happier12:23
sabdflless confusion12:23
=== Kamion waits for consensus :-)
Kamionanyway, I imagine I can kick off the CD builds now?12:24
Kamionno artwork, so this can't be final12:24
mdzjdub_: artwork status?12:24
sabdfljdub was around...12:24
Kamion22:34  * jdub_ leaves for nsw tender meeting12:24
Kamion50 minutes ago12:24
mdzsabdfl: send the artwork to me and I'll do it12:25
sabdflk, coming up12:25
KamionI'll wait12:25
sabdflmdz: oh bugger, i don't have the gdm login screen, nor the gnome splash12:25
sabdfljdub has those directly from jane / designers12:25
sabdfli only have the desktop images12:26
sabdflwill send the desktop images, with instructions12:26
=== mdz pings jdub_ extra hard
sabdflmdz: i think he's chasing REVENUE! so let's go ahead and catch him when he gets back12:27
elmogar, I can't believe we're shipping a distro where fricking paste doesn't work right in vi12:27
=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-153-91.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdflelmo: why?12:28
elmosabdfl: why doesn't it work, or why can't I believe it it, or ?12:28
mdzthat is a pretty lame default12:28
elmoyeah, the autoindent shit12:29
mdzthat should only be enabled for source code12:29
elmoand anyone who tells me to :set paste is going to get beaten12:29
sabdflwell, let's get it sane12:29
sabdflelmo goes through walls12:29
elmoyeah, I'll beat them through a wall or two12:29
mdzDebian ships with the same default in vim12:30
mdzbut they ship a useless vi by default12:30
mdznvi is good for pasting and not much else12:31
elmomeh, it's absolutely fine for non-hardcore or oldschool vi folks12:31
mdzthe sort of "oldschool" that means you still use ksh12:32
thomelmo: paste works fine in nano *duck*12:32
sabdflok, can we fix this to a sane default?12:32
mdzsabdfl: _now_? :-)12:32
sabdflis it not trivial?12:32
mdzit is trivial to change12:32
mdzit is non-trivial to decide whether the change is the right thing to do12:32
Kamionit's not a really painful badness12:33
Kamionvim still works fine ...12:33
mdz(except for elmo)12:33
Kamionit requires testing in compatible mode, etc.12:33
sabdflmdz: you, elmo, kamion, do you all agree on a sane default?12:33
mdzelmo: you could upload that change as your uber-secret easter egg without telling us12:33
elmosabdfl: I was just whining - it's not worth a zeroth-hour change12:33
Kamionsabdfl: I'm not convinced we do; I think vi should set paste or noai or whatever only in compatible mode12:33
thomhey, yeah. what happened to the easter egg12:34
elmothom: figlet got demoted to universe :-P12:34
Kamionelmo, I suspect, disagrees here12:34
thomKamion: i tend to agree12:34
thomelmo: lame easter egg :P12:34
elmothom: dude, it was going to be cowsay'ed figleted init.d startup scripts12:34
mdzelmo: figlet turned out to be not-necessarily-redistributable12:34
thomelmo: sick puppy :-)12:35
elmoI dare you not to be freaked out when your computer starts up and starts shouting at you from a speech bubble of a cow 12:35
Kamiondunno about the cowsay, but figlet-on-failure would rock :-)12:35
sabdflmdz: desktop images on the way12:35
elmomdz: yeah, I know12:35
sabdfli still vote for the very rare but random warthogs noises12:35
thomyeah, forget this orange crap12:35
sabdfllike, once in three years rare12:35
thomlets have FAILED take up the whole screen12:36
=== sabdfl pricks his ears
Kamionthat's like the old GNOME fish :)12:36
Kamionappeared roughly once a month12:36
sabdflwe should make our's really, really rare12:36
sabdflso it's a badge of honour to have heard the hog12:36
sabdfland it only lasts for, say 10 seconds12:36
sabdflquite quiet12:36
Kamion(incidentally, why is all the init script stuff in /lib/lsb/init-functions rather than somewhere in /etc where you can actually configure it?)12:38
elmohey, speaking of sounds, are we going to get a "Hi, my name is Mark Shuttleworth, and I pronounce Ubuntu Uh-Boon-To" on the website? :)12:38
amU:) 12:38
sivangjust like linus torvalds did?12:38
mdzsabdfl: err12:39
mdzsabdfl: are you sure you want to use JPEGs?12:39
mdzrather than PNG?12:39
Kamionelmo: Matthew Vernon wishes to convey a remote slap with a trout for the cowsay-figlet idea12:39
sivangJEPS are evil12:39
sabdflmdz: alternatives?12:39
mdzsabdfl: PNG12:39
sabdfli have high-res versions here12:39
sivangPNG! PNG! :)12:39
sabdflcan you do a quick check and see how big the png is?12:39
sabdflsivang: it's got fades and stuff, i though png might be too big12:40
mdzthey're compressed; I can't tell without a copy of the real image12:40
sabdflfire up gimp, open the image, save a copy, png12:40
mdzthat won't be the same12:40
elmowe're down to one uninstallable, zero out of date12:40
mdzit's been through jpeg compression and a smoothing filter12:40
mdzelmo: what's the uninstallable?12:40
mdzbut I'll do it as an estimate12:41
sabdfli just started a gradient on a big widescreen background to try to get you widescreen desktops too12:41
sabdflgrabs the X totally, can't stop it or switch away12:41
sabdflfor about 90 minutes12:41
mdzsabdfl: a bit under a meg12:41
sivangsabdfl : oh, maybe color depth reduction/12:42
sabdfllet me see a sec...12:42
Kamionshall we just drop -gl?12:42
Keybuksabdfl: any particular reason why we don't just make the background an alpha PNG and use nautilus' inbuilt desktop gradient feature to do that12:42
thomelmo: please remove it, i don't even know where gl is, let alone how to find firefox l10n for it12:42
mdzelmo: I'll remove it from the seed12:43
sabdflKeybuk: it's not an easy gradient12:43
elmoit's gone12:43
sabdflwe can get fancier for hoary, with png alpha overlays on solid desktops etc12:43
Keybuksabdfl: it's not just a horizontal or vertical one?12:43
sabdflok, hold on a sec12:43
sabdflKeybuk: no12:43
sabdflits a blend of several radial and horizontal ones at different angles with different opacities12:44
dokothom: it's your last european colony ;-)12:44
=== Kamion notes with slight amusement that our CDs will ship with dists/stable, dists/testing, and dists/unstable symlinks
=== mdz is not amused
Kamionit only occurred to me today that it was inappropriate12:44
mdzall pointing to warty, I suppose?12:44
elmooh yes, do we want stable in the archive yet, or only for final ?12:44
Kamionall pointing to warty12:44
KamionI wouldn't like to swear that d-i is not relying on one of them12:45
amU*nickdetection* ;)12:45
KamionI don't *think* it is, but now is not the time to mess - should have noticed last week12:45
mdzamU: you need to match on word boundaries :-P12:45
sabdflok, for png export from gimp12:45
sabdfldoes compression mean it's lossy?12:46
mdzset compression to max12:46
dokothom: sorry, GI is Gibraltar, GL is Greenland, maybe no Ubuntu users there ...12:46
Kamiondoko: gl is Galician, not Gibraltar or whatever, if that's what you're thinking12:46
mdzdoko: language, not country12:46
sabdflwe wait12:47
dokoI see ...12:47
sabdflwe wait12:47
Kamionoh, CRAP12:47
sabdflwe wait....12:47
mdzKamion: don't say that...12:47
elmowe all panic...12:47
KamionI need to upload debootstrap to remove pcmcia-cs12:47
mdzKamion: !!12:47
sabdflKamion: Can't Really Answer Properly?12:47
mdzI thought that was done weeks ago12:47
mdzwe can't do that now12:47
Kamionso did I12:47
mdzthat means the automatic installation of pcmcia-cs is untested (in our environment anyway)12:48
KamionI've tested it in our environment ...12:48
sabdflcomes out at 1.1MB, vs 360kb for the JPG12:48
sabdflcan ship either, your call12:48
mdzPNG, no question12:49
Kamionmdz: how severe was that bug again?12:49
mdzwe have the space on the CD, and millions of ubuntu users will thank us12:49
Kamionit'll need to be reopened12:49
sabdflok, will render them now12:49
mdzKamion: that bug was not as bad as risking pcmcia-cs being missing for a much larger class of users12:49
Kamionall right then, sorry for this :(12:49
mdzthough, the workaround is worse for the dell bug12:50
Kamionthat's the only discrepancy FWIW12:50
mdzit stops the machine from booting12:50
mdzwhereas if pcmcia-cs is not installed for some reason, the user can just install it12:50
=== mdz ponders
Kamionit's only bad for machines with both a PCMCIA network card and a PCMCIA CD-ROM, and I'd suggest those are very rare12:50
Kamion(or no networking, I suppose)12:51
mdzok, let's take it out of debootstrap12:51
elmookay, releases.ubuntu.com is up12:51
elmoKamion: can you also trigger archvsync@mirnyy.ubuntu.com pls ?12:52
dokofor hoary, do we want python everywhere?  see the embeddedpython builtin for bash ;-) http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#bash12:55
Kamionelmo: same key?12:55
elmoKamion: yep12:55
Kamionelmo: bash: line 1: /home/archvsync/releasessync: Permission denied12:57
elmoKamion: fixed, I think12:57
Kamionelmo: done12:58
elmokamion: cool, working12:58
Kamionsabdfl: nonexecutable python doesn't work well either :)12:58
sabdflmdz: images incoming12:58
sivangsabdfl : could you let me know when you have the final offline page? i'd like to see how is came up.12:58
elmoKamion: he was talking about doko's stuff :)12:59
sabdflsivang: jdub is away for the moment12:59
mdzsabdfl: I might have an email size limit somewhere upstream of me, we'll see12:59
Kamionelmo: ah :)01:00
sivangsabdfl : ok.01:01
sabdflsivang, maybe send me what you sent jdub01:02
mdzsabdfl: hasn't come through01:03
sabdfls'gawn from here01:03
mdzaha, finally arrived01:04
sabdflwow, check the size of the flat one vs the gradients01:04
elmoso, err, someone remind me of the timetable, pls?  need to plan for sleep (or lack thereof)01:05
sabdflthough these gradients are pretty slick01:05
Kamionfortunately debootstrap-udeb is not in the d-i initrds01:05
sabdflelmo, if you are roughly done, now would be a good time to crash while we test the RC build01:05
sabdflmdz, that ok by you?01:05
mdzsabdfl: yes01:06
Kamionelmo: can I just bother you to hurry this debootstrap upload through incoming, if that's possible?01:08
Kamionit was delayed a bit because I had to update my scripts to look at restricted, so as to make sure there was nothing else missing01:09
sabdflguys, let's change as little as possible.01:09
sabdflit's late here, and this is serious "whoops" material01:09
sabdflespecially if mdz goes on his intended "final release" jihad01:10
=== mdz snickers
mdzsabdfl: what should the descriptions be for these images in the wallpaper selector?01:10
sabdfl"hard core" and "soft core"?01:11
elmowhat final release jihad?01:11
sabdflas in "you thought this was a rc, muahaha"01:11
elmoyou mean mdz's in on that crack too?01:11
sabdflhe's baking it, actually01:11
pittiwasn't he the one who proposed it?01:11
sabdflwel... why not01:12
elmobecause we've been uploading packages throughout the day that have received, like, zero testing?01:12
sabdflkamion: remember that comment about distributing this "to too many people to be embarrased about it"?01:12
sabdflspeling aside?01:12
Kamionsabdfl: sure, but as discussed with mdz above the result of not doing this is more embarrassing than the consequences if it goes wrong01:13
mdzsabdfl: but seriously, where it currently says "Ubuntu Watermark" for the current image, what should these say?01:13
mdzKamion: (we hope)01:13
sabdflmdz: "Ubuntu Default Desktop" for the one with the logo on the gradient01:14
sabdfl"Ubuntu Simple Desktop" for the one without the gradient, just flat colour with logo01:14
sivangsabdfl : just got a very good email from enrico, we are going to rock ubuntu's docs :) Will send you draft also breifly.01:14
sabdfl"No Wallpaper" for the one with.... no wallpaper01:14
elmogar, contents generation is so unbelievably expensive01:15
sabdflsivang excellent, thanks for your work on the wiki, i think the two of you will work well together01:15
sabdfl"Ubuntu Calendar Grrrlllls".... no, wait01:16
sabdfl"Ubuntu Calendar Desktop" for the threesome01:16
sabdfljust need a name for the one with the gradient but nothing else01:16
sabdfl"Ubuntu Master Desktop"?01:18
sabdflmdz: ^^ all done01:19
sabdflhmm.... maybe "Reference" instead of "Master"?01:19
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-7-49.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzsabdfl: should there be an entry for this month's calendar image itself, apart from the rotating one which we'll update?01:20
Keybukmdz: yes, there has to be, otherwise it doesn't work01:21
mdz"Ubuntu October Calendar"?01:21
sabdflThen we have "plain" and "simple" :-)01:21
mdzKeybuk: really, why?01:21
Keybukthe calendar image itself is a symlink to whatever month is current01:21
sabdflah, ok01:21
sabdflso we need "Ubuntu Monthly Calendar"01:21
mdzKeybuk: does it read the symlink or something?01:21
Keybukmdz: this stuff gets copied into the user's .gnome2 directory -- so if you change it every month, they don't get new montly images, just new available images01:21
sabdfland "Ubuntu October Calendar"01:22
Keybukso you need one "Monthly Calendar" image that changes; but it has to be a symlink, otherwise it'll get cached and not updated :)01:22
mdzKeybuk: yes, I know01:22
mdzI'm talking about the menu01:22
Keybukso am I :)01:22
mdzyou're telling me there has to be an entry in the menu pointing to foo-bar.png in addition to the one pointing to ubuntu-calendar.png?01:22
Keybukalso sometimes users simply aren't going to like the new month, so they should be able to nail it at a past image they liked01:22
Keybukmdz: yes.01:22
mdzthat makes no sense to me01:23
mdzbut we want one anyway01:23
Keybukah, sorry, there doesn't *have* to be an XML entry -- the monthly is enough provided it's a symlink01:23
Keybukand provided the destination of the symlink changes each month01:23
Keybukbut we want one anyway, so they can stick an old month they liked01:24
mdzsabdfl: what did you say you wanted the gradient-only one called?01:25
mdzKeybuk: ok, that's what I thought01:25
sabdfl"Plain" would be fine01:25
sabdflmdz: we still need gdm and gnome splash01:27
sabdflgdm has me concerned as a straight droping, but I suppose we can test lots of resolutions on any given desktop01:27
pittiCan anybody tell me when the CD images will be ready approximately? Is it worth to stay awake for them for last-minute testing?01:27
mdzit is so wrong that ubuntu-artwork uses cdbs01:29
Keybukblame jdub01:29
mdzthis "no wallpaper" option should have been added a long time ago01:29
mdzit has to be done completely differently from the PNGs01:29
KeybukNo Wallpaper ?01:29
Keybukthat's built-in to GNOME01:30
sabdflpitti: rather crash and be up early if you can!01:31
sabdflthere will be reports from users for you to review01:31
Keybukmdz: remember, you need to change $(THIS_MONTH) at the top of art/wallpapers/Makefile.am01:31
pittisabdfl: okay, I thought the images were ready by 2300 UTC :-)01:31
mdzsabdfl: keep the existing watermark image in the list also, or remove it?01:31
mdzI assume we have to keep the file, because people are using it for their background01:32
sabdflmdz: remove01:32
mdzKeybuk: did01:32
Keybuksabdfl: that'll vanish strangely for people who've used Preview though?01:32
Keybukactually, given we shipped Preview with "Monthly Calendar" as the default -- it won't -- it'll get replaced with the threesome01:33
sabdflawesome :-)01:33
=== Keybuk adds a test user to check that
Kamion"threesome"? dare I ask? :)01:33
mdzsabdfl: is that "stretched" or "scaled"?01:34
Kamionpitti: sorry :-(01:34
mdzI think "scaled"01:34
mdzthe existing stuff is all "centered"01:34
mdzthis is a bit crazy to be changing at this point01:34
Keybukhmm... ok, my new user just didn't get any session :-/  gah01:34
Keybukat least, no panel setup01:35
=== lamont grumbles. looks like OO.o was the only large package that _didn't_ get uploaded since I last freshened my mirror.
pittiKamion: np, planning means to exchange coincidence by mistake :-)01:35
pittiI'm looking forward to test the images tomorrow; today's were very good01:36
Keybukahh, I wonder whether this is related to this morning's gconf problem01:36
sivangsabdfl : sent01:36
sabdflmdz: stretched i think01:37
sabdflscaled will give weirdness on widescreen01:38
mdzsabdfl: I assume "scaled" preserves aspect ratio01:38
Keybukyes :o)  I needed to import panel-default-setup.entries after I'd nuked gconf's defaults01:38
Keybukmdz: yeah01:38
sabdflmdz: yes, but these iamges won't look *that* bad on widescreen01:38
Keybukstretched doesn't01:38
sabdfland I'm working on some widescreen png's for you01:38
sabdflat least, my pc is working on them 01:38
sabdflKeybuk: so, are we ok?01:39
mdzgnome-background-properties crashes now01:40
Keybukgah ... it looks like seb's dropped the patch01:40
seb128which patch ?01:40
Keybukto the desktop properties stuff01:40
mdzsabdfl: the text will look moderately bad, and the people will look worse01:41
Keybukhmm, no, I'm just being stupid01:41
Keybukafter explaining to mdz why it had to be a symlink, I changed the filename :p01:41
sabdflthe scaled image will give very ugly lines01:42
sabdflso let's go stretched01:42
sabdflwidescreen guys will immediately go to change it01:42
sabdfli've got 1600x900 versions under way01:42
Keybuksabdfl: yup, confirmed01:43
sabdflconfirmed we are ok?01:43
Keybukit'll be centered though, because that's how we shipped Preview01:44
sabdflhmm... pity01:44
sabdflit won't pick up the new setting?01:44
Keybukno, golden rule, remember -- it doesn't override it because it doesn't know the old setting, so doesn't know whether the user had changed it01:45
=== Keybuk considers a trick ...
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-78.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdflthought the old setting was in a system pref somewhere, so if the user hadn't changed it, we could update it01:48
Keybuknah, this stuff is done by copying xml files about :(  it's not gconf01:48
Keybukoh, wait01:49
mdzok, this isn't working correctly at all01:51
Keybukmdz: what's not working?01:51
mdzKeybuk: built new ubuntu-artwork, installed on a clean system, the preview images show up in the selector, but it never changes the background01:52
Keybukyou click, and nothing happens?01:52
mdznothing in xsession-errors either01:53
Keybukkill nautilus01:53
mdzit works fine on my other machine where I did my tests01:53
mdzbut I've copied things around and deleted ~/.gnome2/background* etc.01:53
Keybukyah, it's a long-standing bug somewhere between nautilus, gconf and control-center01:53
Keybuksimilar to the "I added an applet and it didn't appear" one01:53
mdzkilling nautilus fixed that particular weirdness01:53
mdzok, we'll just add "killall nautilus" to the release notes :-P01:54
=== Keybuk sees it every now and then, and hasn't yet managed to track it down
Keybukmdz: it's very very very very rare; and entirely unrelated to our voodoo here01:54
sabdflKeybuk: scott@netsplit.org right?01:54
Keybukit just happens that every now and then, nautilus and the control-center wallpaper properties dialog loose sync01:54
mdzso I have a new libgnome which changes the default solid colour01:54
Keybuksabdfl: netsplit.com01:54
mdzI have a new ubuntu-artwork with the new wallpaper01:54
Keybukor just scott@canonical.com :)01:54
mdzI need gdm stuff01:54
Keybukmdz: I'm contemplating a trick to make the Previewers upgrade their imagery <g>01:55
mdzgdm and gnome splash01:55
Kamion'pkill nautilus', puhlease :-)01:55
mdzsabdfl: do we have those?01:55
sabdflmdz no, jdub does though01:55
sabdfli think jane sent them straight through to him, i didn't see them01:56
mdzsabdfl: what shall we do?01:56
mdzjane and jeff are the only people with copies?01:56
sabdflif that's the sole change we can make it tomorrow morning01:56
=== mdz faints
sabdfljdub must be back soon01:57
sabdflmdz: patience, we need01:57
sabdflrelease, we will01:57
mdzuploadING, I should say.  ubuntu-artwork will take a bit01:58
Keybukso what do we want to do about the watermark?01:59
Keybukdo we mind that upgraders will get the threesome, but centered and not scaled ?01:59
sabdflKeybuk: its ok02:00
mdzthis is one of those things that jdub and I meant when we said we needed this stuff earlier02:00
mdzKeybuk: we could add a sed one-liner to UpgradeNotes :-)02:01
Keybukmdz: or we could just change the default gconf schema <g>02:01
Keybukwhich you'll have had to do anyway to make the threesome not the default02:01
mdzthe calendar was the default?02:01
mdzhmm, didn't change that02:01
mdzwill do02:01
KeybukI'd forgotten, the default has absolutely *nothing* to do with the XML02:02
Keybukif the first time they open that dialog, the default doesn't have an XML entry, their background vanishes02:02
Keybukif we change the gconf defaults (which we need to do anyway)02:03
Keybukpreview users who never touched the background dialog will change to the plain/simple whatever image02:03
Keybukpreview users who touched the background dialog will either keep their changes, or if they left it at Calendar, change to the threesome but centered (they can then change that if they want)02:04
Keybukwhich seems good enough for me02:04
sabdflnight all, i'm crashing, back in about 7 hrs02:06
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel []
sivangmdz faints? getoutta here!02:12
mdzKeybuk: is debian/patches/01_default_background.patch at all relevant?02:13
mdzI've already changed 06_ubuntu_theme.patch02:13
mdzyeah, it's relevant?02:14
Keybukof libgnome ?02:14
elmoI'm going to crash for a bit too - phone's on if you need me (or shout in the next couple of minutes)02:14
Keybuknah, that's the old Debian one02:15
Keybukignore it02:15
lamontbad libgnome02:15
Keybuk06_ubuntu-theme is the right one02:15
lamontlibgnome_2.8.0-0ubuntu4 ftbfs02:15
lamontTrying patch debian/patches/03_gnome-terminal.patch at level02:15
lamontor did that get fixed already?02:15
mdzKeybuk: want to look over this before I upload it?02:16
Keybukmdz: yeah, dcc the patch and I'll check it02:16
mdzwho what?02:16
mdzadded a new patch as well02:17
Keybukoh, right02:17
mdzdebdiff emailed02:17
Keybukand in ubuntu-artwork there's an XML entry for /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png which is 'stretched' ?02:18
mdz  <wallpaper>02:19
mdz    <_name>Ubuntu Default Desktop</_name>02:19
mdz    <filename>/usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png</filename>02:19
mdz    <options>stretched</options>02:19
mdz  </wallpaper>02:19
Keybuklooks good to me then02:19
mdzok, uploading02:19
mdzsivang: you don't need to threaten to revert to Debian for you bug report to get attention; we read all of them02:24
Kamionelmo: I'm moving pool to .pool now, seems least controversial02:24
mdzhe's snoozing02:26
Kamionyeah, but he'll see when he wakes up02:26
mdzjust mentioning it in case you missed his departure02:27
Kamionodd, my sync to releases doesn't appear to be taking effect02:28
sivangmdz : I didn't mean this to sound like a threat. Would have never dreamed to impose a such  - I just said I am considering to switch back to debian in order to get over the "bug" to allow me to continue work. :) However if this was understood as a threat - My apologies. I greatly appriciate the truely amazing work done on Ubuntu and might have got out of line unintentionally , will you excuse me?02:30
Kamionmdz: so am I just waiting for libgnome and ubuntu-desktop now?02:30
Kamioner, ubuntu-artwork02:31
mdzsivang: no problem, a lot of people seem to be doing that recently and it is getting to me02:32
mdzKamion: yes02:32
mdzwith any luck, they're building now02:32
mdzlamont: ?02:32
lamontwhich package?02:32
lamontlibgnome_2.8.0-0ubuntu4 is ftbfs02:32
=== lamont looks to see if there's something newer
mdzlamont: ubuntu502:32
lifelesssivang: I'm curious - what bug is it?02:33
mdzlifeless: 231502:33
lamontmdz: w-b still shows ubuntu4. give it another minute or202:34
mdz-rw-rw----    1 mdz      mdz           315 2004-10-12 17:19 libgnome_2.8.0-0ubuntu5_source.upload02:34
lamontmdz: on a different note, does AM_MAINTAINER_MODE take any args, or is it just ^AM_MAINTAINER_MODE$?02:34
mdzlamont: that's it02:34
Kamionno documented arguments02:35
=== lamont fixes snacc while he waits
Keybuklamont: just AM_MAINTAINER_MODE02:36
Kamionyou could in theory use arguments, I think, but they'd be ignored02:36
Kamionand it's probably broken to try to do so02:36
lifelesstasty bug there.02:36
Keybukuh, it'd probably expand to <contents of AM_MAINTAINER_MODE> (ARG1, ARG2)02:36
=== lamont fears that his autocrap virginity has been violated for some time now, but he likes to continue pretending...
sivangmdz : I fell inlove with Ubuntu the first day I layed hand on , I want to be proud of it on my laptop :) let me _whatever_ more info you need for this bug and don't hesitate to ask me to test quirks you have in mind for investigation.02:36
KamionKeybuk: would it? oh02:36
KamionKeybuk: how does m4 know?02:37
lifelesswhy macro languages are not always good, or why m4 was the wrong choice02:37
mdzsivang: you tried each of those parameters by itself, alone, with none of the others?02:37
KeybukKamion: dunno, trying to remember how m4sugar treats that kind of thing02:38
Keybukdon't give it arguments, anyway :)02:39
KeybukAM_MAINTAINER_MODE(AC_PROG_CC) ... would that expand AC_PROG_CC and therefore do checks for compilers? :p  (I *think* it would)02:39
lifelessKeybuk: 02:40
Kamionhm, no, m4 is expand-then-evaluate surely02:40
Kamionoh, no, arguments are collected and expanded before macro expansion02:41
KeybukKamion: ho-ho-ho02:41
Keybukcf. the infamous Libtool bug... "if AC_PROG_CXX has been expanded, do AC_LIBTOOL_CXX"02:41
Kamionmy m4 is, how can I put this, rusty02:41
Keybukwhich, of course, expanded AC_LIBTOOL_CXX and its dependencies *anyway*02:42
sivangmdz : yes, acpi=off miraculessly hangs the kernel in random parts. the most advanced part was when detecing HDs02:42
mdzthat makes no sense02:42
mdzsivang: have you run a memory test?02:42
mdzsivang: please attach the information requested02:42
sivangmdz : I know, I have been given this about 3 hours of investigation, trinyg different kernels etc02:43
sivangmdz : didn't run memory test.02:43
mdzsivang: did you try the kernel which was working for you under sid?02:43
sivangmdz : that's a starters..however it kills me to think this 1 year old machine has already corrupted memory02:43
sivangmdz : I will try that02:44
sivangmdz : I tried the latest sid, I am not sure which one was that worked. I erased sid for ubuntu :)02:44
sivangmdz: I don't have any notes , I went unnoticed since everything was working fine02:44
sivangmdz : on debian unstable , that is02:45
sivangmdz : pitti suggested 2.6.7 , lastest what do you think?02:45
sivanglastest = latest02:46
sivangmdz : I am now on, it gives me very slighttly better performance as a temporary workaround.02:47
KeybukPCI: Cannot allocate resource region 4 of device 0000:00:1d.202:49
Keybuk^ is it me, or does that appear on every Ubuntu kernel02:49
lamontlibgnome, ubuntu-artwork uploaded for i386, I expect the others have to02:50
=== lamont must run off for about 20-30 minutes
Keybuksivang: randomly, if you run top is anything hogging CPU ?02:51
sivanglet's check02:51
sivangmostly XFree86 but it switches places with gnome-termina and idle init02:52
mdzcan you guys take this discussion to #ubuntu?02:52
sivangso guess it's normal02:52
sivanganyway, I have to hit bed now02:52
mdzreleasing to do, and all that02:52
sivangnight all02:52
Keybuk2.6.8 and laptops definitely doesn't seem to be friends :-/02:53
mdzlamont: when will they be in the archive, so Kamion can build a CD?02:55
Kamionseven minutes from now I'd imagine02:56
hornbeck2.6.8 works great on my laptop03:08
hornbeckInspiron 600m03:08
Keybukhornbeck: yeah, seems randomly odd;  it seems that it just won't boot/work on any modern HP for example03:10
hornbeckhmmm, I will have to grab a HP and try it out03:10
Keybukthough that's an acpi problem, it won't switch on the fans so your laptop overheats03:11
hornbeckman that is crap03:11
hornbeckI used to use a compaq and it always had problems03:11
mdzKamion: let me know when I should start my rsync03:17
Kamionmdz: jigdo-file isn't quick, I'm watching the log file03:19
=== npmccallum [~npmccallu@69-162-252-7.ironoh.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionmdz: note that the images are now called warty-install-amd64.iso, etc.03:22
Kamion(to distinguish from live)03:22
mdzKamion: same directory, though?03:24
lamontmdz/Kamion: they made it, I assume?03:25
Kamionlamont: yep, I checked03:25
=== lamont is back,btw
Kamionbugger, it broke03:31
mdzoff to a roaring start, then :-)03:32
Kamionoh, probably just recent publish-daily changes03:32
Kamiongah, BLOODY tla03:33
Kamionits conflict handling SUCKS ARSE03:34
Kamionmdz: anyway, it's up now, have at it03:37
KamionI'll announce to ubuntu-users as soon as a few of us have had a brief go at it03:37
lamontBad, bad server. No donut for you03:43
Kamiongeez, 9K/s?03:45
Kamionshould've grabbed it myself before telling you lot :P03:45
=== lamont fixes snacc
mdzlamont: downloading ISOs?03:54
lamontmdz: url? :-(03:55
lamontmind you, it'll take about a day or two unless I head into town, which I was avoiding until later...03:56
Kamionlamont: daily/current/03:59
mdzwe need more people testing this than just Kamion and me04:01
mdznpmccallum: ping?04:01
=== lamont ponders driving down to the neighbors and hijacking his wireless/DSL
=== asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamion"testing" a.k.a. still downloading the first one04:03
Kamion   163062594  28%    8.57kB/s   13:03:5604:04
lamontKamion: remind me of the rsync location again?04:04
aswhi... I'm new. 04:04
Kamionlamont: archive.ubuntulinux.org::cdimage/daily/current/04:06
Kamionasw: hi04:06
mdzburning i38604:06
mdzKamion: why such abysmal throughput?04:07
aswkamion: is wartylog making public logs somewhere?  I wouldn't mind reading logs before I make a complete fool of myself. 04:07
Kamionlaptop test would be good04:07
Kamionmdz: dunno, it's picked up now04:07
Kamionasw: I think so, but to tell you the truth I can't remember where04:08
lamontwow.  only 42 hours to go on the rsync. 04:08
lamontguess it's time to go hijack the neighbor's DSL.04:08
lamont(for a very liberal definition of 'neighbor')04:08
Kamionmdz: I'm hoping it's because all the Canonical staff are downloading it too04:09
Kamionasw: may not be public for historical reasons, bug fabbione :-)04:10
lamontanybody need anything before I disappear for 30+minutes?04:10
lamontright.  there go all those excuses....  back online in a bit.04:11
Kamionhttp://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/fabbione.jpg is just alarming04:11
=== lamont wonders what daniels did that day...
=== lamont wanders
mdzwhere is pitti04:14
mdzmizar:[~]  ls -ld /media/scd004:14
mdzd------rwx    1 mdz      mdz            11 1903-12-31 23:00 /media/scd004:14
mdzmizar:[~]  mount | grep scd004:14
mdz/dev/scd0 on /media/scd0 type hfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,sync,umask=007,uid=1000,gid=1000)04:14
Kamionpmount b0rked?04:16
Kamionpitti went to bed04:16
Kamionabout two and a half hours ago04:17
aswthat photo of "fabbione" is very interesting. I think I'll just lurk on the mailing lists and if people don't mind in here for a while... 04:18
Kamionmdz: that would be 0.1-5 from yesterday; but why is umask=007 having that effect?04:19
Kamionmdz: maybe umask= is broken for hfs?04:19
mdzKamion: yes04:20
mdzKamion: already filed a bug, fixing it and reopening the other one04:20
Kamionlooks hairy to fix well04:21
mdzyes, I shouldn't have let that can of worms open04:23
mdzeasy enough to revert, though04:23
mdzKamion: the archive-copier progress bar is off04:29
mdznot a show-stopper, but I remember you noticed it before and thought you fixed it04:29
KamionI think I noticed it and then forgot to fix it04:29
Kamionnobody ever filed a bug04:29
Kamiondamn it, I was colliding with my own daily local mirror update, no wonder it was going slowly04:31
fabbionemorning guys04:41
mdzKamion: i386 success04:44
mdzfabbione: please test the current daily04:44
fabbioneKamion: why my pic should be "alarming"? ;)04:44
fabbionemdz: i can't04:44
Kamionfabbione: I think it's the unshavenness viewed from below :)04:44
fabbioneKamion: ehehe04:44
mdzfabbione: why not?04:44
aswfabbione: are there irc logs for me to read?  I'm new just added myself to the mailing lists...  used GNU/Linux since 1993 programmed in C since the late 80s.  I've been looking for a distribution I could let my parents use. 04:44
fabbionemdz: see my comments on Stuff Calendar04:44
mdzExpected downtime between 2 to 5 hours.04:45
fabbionemdz: read all the others too04:45
mdzok, I did not hear about that until now04:45
fabbioneHardware capabilities will be reduced to minimum from 9/10 to 16/10. Still able to test and release X, not able to test d-i either in netboot or cd.04:46
fabbionemdz: i wrote that a long while ago04:46
fabbioneanyway today i am going to test the new adsl line04:46
Kamionmdz: burning amd64 now04:46
fabbionemdz: in approx 2 hours and it will take 1 hour or so04:46
mdzKamion: i386 success, powerpc going, amd64 about to start04:46
fabbionemdz: if it works i will move the office and i might be able to do something after downtime04:47
Kamionmdz: presumably you want me to scratch and rebuild anyway with the new pmount, though04:47
fabbionemdz: if it doesn't work i will take off tomorrow for the other office site04:47
tsengyay mono is slowly trickling in04:47
Kamionmdz: if so, I'd like to do so sooner rather than later, since I'd like to ask ubuntu-users@ for testing04:54
mdzstage 1 complete on amd64 and powerpc04:56
mdzKamion: sure04:56
fabbionejee guys you write too many emails :-)05:03
justdavehmm, we got Firefox 0.9.3 back?05:04
Kamionamd64 success05:06
Kamionhm, we never fixed that bug where firefox starts up bigger than the space between the two panels?05:07
mdzpowerpc install failed05:09
Kamionwhat happened?05:09
mdzsome bad kernel stuff on the screen05:09
mdzunfortunately I was screwing around plugging and unplugging USB stuff at the time to try to get the KVM wired up05:09
mdzso it may be tainted05:09
mdzI got the "problems installing packages" dialog05:09
mdzand yet no packages were unconfigured05:09
Kamionthat's a bit concerning05:10
KamionI'll let you know when powerpc manages to arrive here05:10
Kamion51% on i386 download currently05:11
mdzamd64 hung hard05:11
mdzgoing to retry it05:11
mdzhmm, apparently not; it did a clean acpi soft power off05:11
mdzok, restarted amd64 and powerpc05:15
fabbioneasw: welcome to the team...05:18
Kamionmdz: you know (NOTWARTY), there's not really much point in linux-amd64-* and linux-power* being in restricted05:23
Kamionmdz: they don't depend on anything in restricted, so they could easily be in main05:23
Kamionmdz: although I suppose that means they could disappear for some people if we had to move them from main to restricted later05:23
mdzKamion: amd64 does, now05:23
mdzunless I forgot to upload that05:24
KamionI think you forgot to upload that05:24
Kamion"Depends: linux-image-amd64-generic"05:24
mdzshit, I forgot to upload it05:24
mdzI even tested it on amd6405:24
Kamionis somebody writing down the errata here? :)05:25
justdaveI'm about 80% on the ppc download05:27
justdavesays 10 minutes left05:27
Kamiontrying a German i386 install now05:28
mdzKamion: amd64 successful05:29
mdzKamion: yes, I am05:29
Kamionpcmcia-cs is being correctly installed on this laptop05:29
Kamionnew CDs with new pmount coming up in half an hour or so05:30
mdzKamion: here as well05:32
aswfabbione: thanks. I'm downloading the livecd.  I want to try it on the cheapest laptop I can get that does hardware accelerated OpenGL. My msc (cs) / phd (biophysics) project is a new alife simulator using the seti@home infrastructure (will be opensource again in January.) I would love to see it working out of the box on ubuntu05:33
fabbioneasw: sounds cool...05:34
aswnot much to look at but the first cut of the "ecology" is online at http://science.fiction.org 05:35
=== fabbione is a seti@home guy since 1997
fabbioneor so..05:35
mdzKamion: powerpc has a problem05:35
mdzlibgphoto2-port0 failed for some reason05:35
mdzit's still configuring other stuff, so I don't yet know what went wrong05:35
Kamionmdz: package ordering problem?05:36
Kamionmdz: I've seen this from time to time; apt randomly decides to stick libgphoto2-port0 and gphoto2 in different dpkg runs, I think05:36
mdzKamion: there should only be one dpkg run05:36
Kamionwell, it's not randomly, it's deterministic for a given CD05:36
aswat the moment are you guys only accepting packages already in debian? 05:37
Kamionwhen I've seen it before, it has gone away in subsequent CDs with no relevant package changes05:37
asw(I realize this may be the wrong place to ask...) 05:37
mdzasw: we are not accepting much of anything right now; we're trying to build a release candidate05:37
fabbioneasw: no. but there will be no new packages until the 21st of Oct.05:37
Kamionmdz: the problem might be reproducible in debootstrap?05:38
mdzKamion: the apt config options for the dpkg command line length and number of args were increased to huge values a while back05:38
mdzif they're still not big enough for some reason, we should bump them up in base-config05:38
mdzthere are known ordering bugs when dpkg has to be invoked multiple times05:38
aswmdz: yeah sorry. I shouldn't be bothering you guys.  But I thought I would drop by and say how excited I am to see your project!  I've used the knoppix livecd but competing with novell & redhat requires more ... 05:38
Kamionwhat are they? they're not in apt.conf05:38
mdzDpkg::MaxArgs and Dpkg::MaxArgBytes05:39
Kamionmdz: I'm not sure a base-config change in that area is significantly less scary than just changing the numbers in apt, to be honest05:39
KamionI mean what are the values05:39
mdz350 and 8k05:39
Kamionthat certainly sounds way too small for desktop!05:39
Kamionhell, there are 596 packages in ubuntu-desktop alone05:40
Kamionthe problem with doing it in base-config is that the apt.conf will stick around on users' systems forever05:41
mdzdpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libgphoto2-2:05:41
mdz libgphoto2-2 depends on libgphoto2-port0 (>= 2.1.4-6.1ubuntu0); however:05:41
mdz  Package libgphoto2-port0 is not configured yet.05:41
mdzdpkg: error processing libgphoto2-2 (--configure):05:41
mdz dependency problems - leaving unconfigured05:41
Kamionunless we remove it after the installation run, or do it with -o options05:42
mdzKamion: aptitude -o05:42
mdzI suggest we increase to 1024 and 32k05:42
mdzwhether we do it in apt or in base-config05:43
Kamionthe length of all the package names combined for powerpc is 8193 bytes, *just* over 8k05:43
Kamionperhaps that's tripping it05:43
mdzit's probably tripping both05:43
aswbtw: are the people writing documentation in this chanel? or elsewhere? I'm working on a little review of x3d/vrml viewers on Debian. 05:43
mdzKamion: ok, I'm going to do it in apt05:44
mdzKamion: actually, I wonder what the maximum safe MaxArgBytes is05:44
mdzbash supports huge ones05:44
mdzbut I dunno about dash05:44
mdzdash seems happy enough with 6500005:45
KamionI don't know either; I was beginning to lean towards base-config being a safer place at this point for that reason05:45
Kamionoh, if dash is OK ...05:45
Kamionasw: asleep, I think05:46
mdzKamion: let's do this in base-config05:47
Kamionaptitude -o is passed through to libapt safely?05:48
mdzI've never done an apt with a not-purely-numeric native version number05:48
mdzwho knows what could break05:48
mdzoh, wait05:48
mdzaptitude doesn't actually support -o, does it05:48
mdzeven _synaptic_ suppotrs -o, dammit05:48
Kamion       -o <key>=<value>05:48
Kamion              Set  a configuration file option directly; for instance,05:48
Kamion              use -o Aptitude::Log=/tmp/my-log to log  aptitudes  ac05:48
Kamion              tions to /tmp/my-log. For more information on configura05:48
Kamion              tion file options, see the section Configuration  file05:48
Kamion              reference in the aptitude reference manual.05:48
mdzwhere's that?05:48
mdzaptitude(1) you mean?05:49
Kamionit's aptitude(8) in Debian unstable05:49
mdzit's not in my copy05:49
Kamionthe version in warty doesn't mention -o05:49
mdzI don't think it supports it05:49
mdzI remember it not being there05:49
mdzthe other option is to make this apt 0.5.28 and push that in05:50
Kamiondoes it really not support it, or just not document it?05:50
mdzoh, I could do .27.105:50
mdzit doesn't uspport it, just tried05:50
KamionI can't even type MaxArgBytes reliably at the moment, I'll take your word for it05:50
Kamionthe other option is a temporary apt.conf05:52
Kamionbut that's flaky05:52
Kamionah, that was quick :)05:52
mdzI thought they were bigger than that05:52
=== lamont_r [~lamont@dsl-140-203.dynamic-dsl.frii.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzmaxargs and maxargbytes05:52
mdzlamont_r: do you have the ability to kick this apt build into happening sooner?05:53
lamont_rmdz: no05:53
Kamionmdz: it has to get through the archive and into w-b first, I imagine05:53
lamont_rKamion: exactly05:54
lamont_rmind you, I _could_ potentially violate all that is sacred and build it from a .dsc and upload it, but that would be wrong, and have no effect right now, since I couldn't get that to happen in the next 5.5 minutes05:54
lamont_rassuming, of course, that you have already uploaded the source, that is.05:55
Kamionlet's not get too hacky at the last minute :)05:55
Kamionso, anything *else* before I build RCC3?05:55
lamont_rthe real solution is to have elmo whack the archive crunchers05:55
lamont_rKamion: you mean I can abort my 5 hour download and go back home???05:55
Kamionlamont_r: leave it where it is, the rsync delta will be small05:56
mdzhmm, just noticed something neat05:56
Kamionlamont_r: and if you don't care about pmount or powerpc it won't matter anyway ;)05:56
lamont_rKamion: where it is is sitting in my car in the rain outside of the closed coffee shop in town... :-(05:56
mdzif you mount nfs filesystems in fstab, portmap gets started with different options05:56
mdzso if we have portmap listen on localhost by default, we don't have to fix that05:56
mdzunder other conditions, I would consider that a bug :-)05:57
mdzlamont_r: closed, but the wireless still works?05:58
mdzand what's "rain"?05:58
justdavepowerpc image still crashes Disk Utility05:58
KamionI think we'll just have to point people at other tools for that, doesn't sound easily fixable05:59
lamont_rmdz: sure - he just has DSL from the phone company, unmetered.05:59
lamont_rjustdave: if we could find the bit-pattern... :-)05:59
mdzthere's a distinct SEP field around that issue05:59
lamont_rmdz: rain is when the RH exceeds 100%, and the temp is > 0C. :-)06:00
Kamionwell, if it weren't a proprietary program that's crashing, I might go and look :P06:00
=== justdave burns it with Toast
Kamion"Bitte geben Sie Ihren Benutzernamen ein"06:00
justdaveKamion: it's not.06:00
Kamioni386 success auf Deutsch06:00
justdavehdiutil is part of Darwin06:00
Kamionjustdave: ah, interesting06:00
justdave(which is the open-source part of OS X)06:00
mdz"open source"06:01
Kamionin that case I might go and look when I have Copious Free Time :)06:01
Kamionviewable source, at least06:01
justdavemdz: seriously.  you can modify and redistribute. :)  no guarantee of Apple taking your changes back of course :)06:01
justdavethere are forks of Darwin out there06:01
Kamionjustdave: it's not DFSG-free which is pretty much the definition of open source too06:01
Kamionthe APSL has some interesting clauses, as I remember06:02
Kamionunless those have been fixed06:02
justdavethat could be.  yeah, I've never looked too hard, never had anything worth borrowing from it related to anything I was working on yet to have a need to look at it06:02
mdzdunno, it's too long for me to read right now06:02
mdzwhich is a bad indication in itself06:02
KamionI wouldn't have any qualms about looking at the code (Ben Herrenschmidt does, for example); I'd be careful about using code from it directly06:03
mdzlamont_r: is apt building?06:03
lamont_rshould be within a minute or 206:03
=== lamont_r checks
mdzI thought :03 was the magic06:04
lamont_ryeah, it is.06:04
lamont_rbut that takes a minute or so to get i386 w-b updated,06:04
lamont_rand then one of the 3 buildd's has to finish its 300 second wait (nothing to do), and notice,.06:04
Kamionseems to take a minute or two extra to sync all the data over sometimes too06:04
=== mdz taps his foot impatiently
Kamionyou know, you'd think cdrecord could check whether the file you've asked it to record actually exists before wasting time spinning up the CD06:06
lamont_r0.5.27.1 is building06:06
lamont_ron i386, at least06:06
thomKamion: don't be stupid, that'd be a feature06:06
thomcdrtool doesn't have any of those06:07
mdzcdrecord is crap and I am not using it anymore06:07
mdzI will sooner buy a DVD-ROM drive for anyone I need to burn a disc for06:08
justdavecdrecord doesn't appear to work on IDE burners, either06:08
mdzyou can pretty much burn DVDs with dd(1)06:08
justdaveI kept getting SCSI errors when I tried it06:08
lamont_rmdz apt uploaded for i38606:08
mdzjustdave: works for me, after a fashion06:09
mdzlamont_r: thnaks06:09
mdzthanks, too06:09
justdavecouldn't come up with a usable device name06:09
lamont_rmdz: it would be nice if growisofs would burn cds at the CD speed, not the DVD speed..06:09
justdaveI suppose if I could figure out the device name it might work06:09
lamont_rer, nm. that's cdrecord again06:09
Kamionthom: mkisofs does have a scary feature set, mind06:09
Kamionjustdave: /dev/cdrom works fine06:10
lamont_rjustdave: I use cdrecord with an ide burner just fine06:10
justdaveKamion: on OS X?06:10
mdzignore its pedantic warning about it06:10
Kamionjustdave: oh. dunno06:10
Kamionthat seems like an ambitious prospect at best06:10
justdaveI'm thinking about people who only have OS X currently trying Linux for the first time :)06:10
KamionJoerg Schilling barely supports Linux never mind OS X06:10
justdavecdrecord works on OS X, but I couldn't come up with a device name it liked for my burner06:11
lamont_rmdz: wrt closed: I'm getting sig strength/qual of 5/55, using my gain antenna... :-)06:11
justdavewell, yeah, I couldn't get it to work :)06:11
lamont_rah, ppc.  dunno about that.. :-)06:11
mdzlamont_r: and that's still faster than home?06:11
justdaveother folks on ubuntu-users claimed it did, iirc06:11
=== lamont_r needs someone to buy him a G5.
lamont_rmdz: sure06:11
lamont_rI just have to hear his wimpy ACK's.. :-)06:12
lamont_rhe hears me just fine... :-)06:12
lamont_rwell, I lie...06:12
Kamioninteresting reaction to new artwork on #ubuntu06:13
lamont_rI could burn bandwidth like there's no tomorrow and download at about the same speed, or even closer to 40KB/s,  but that gets real expensive real fast06:13
=== justdave grabs the freshly ejected CD
m_tthewlamont_r: how high is your high-gain06:14
lamont_rwhich artwork did we wind up with?06:14
Kamionjustdave: bet you hit the same apt bug06:14
lamont_rm_tthew: this one is 5.5db on the end of about 5 db of cable loss06:14
lamont_r100mW card06:14
lamont_rso I'm really only about 5db up06:14
lamont_rI'm also shooting through about 5mm/hr of rain06:15
lamont_rmaybe 10mm/hr06:15
lamont_ryeah.  1006:15
lamont_rnot sure if he has low-E windows or not06:15
lamont_rbut I'm only going < 100meters06:16
mdzm_tthew: there is this guy "Matthew D. Peavy" posting to ubuntu-users now, and I keep mistaking him for you at first glance06:18
=== m_tthew chuckles
m_tthewhe probably types better than I do06:18
fabbionelamont_r: do you remember what's the equivalent of 0C and -20C in F?06:20
=== thom kicks off the cd image cron job early and goes to make tea
lamont_r32F and whatever 32-36 is06:21
thomKamion: define interesting :-)06:22
Kamionthom: hmm?06:22
mdzthom: up early or up late?06:22
thommdz: early06:23
thomhideously so06:23
thom05:23 here06:23
fabbionelamont_r: 32F = 0C =06:24
thomKamion: " < Kamion> interesting reaction to new artwork on #ubuntu"06:24
Kamion05:09 < whiprush> woo, new wallpapers.06:24
Kamion05:09 < whiprush> half naked people!06:24
Kamion05:09 < ob> haha i saw that.06:24
Kamion05:09 < ob> my wife was like "what the hell are you doing?"06:24
Kamion05:09 < ob> "i swear to god i didn't do it!  it was ubuntu!"06:24
Kamion05:09 < whiprush> "Use ubuntu and you could end up like this guy. Two. women. and GNOME!"06:24
mdzfabbione: yes06:24
fabbionemdz: ok thanks06:25
mdz32F is the temperature at which water freezes under whatever standard conditions06:25
=== fabbione was checking the router env limits
fabbionemdz: yup.. that's what i assume with 0C06:25
lamont_rso how does one make the people disappear from the new wallpaper?06:25
mdzlamont_r: you should not get the people by default06:25
Kamionthey're not there by default06:25
mdzlamont_r: if you are, that's a bug06:26
fabbionemdz: i am going to disconnect wartylog and me to go and test the new adsl line in a few minutes.06:26
mdzfabbione: ok06:26
fabbionemdz: wish me luck.. :-)))06:26
lamont_rfabbione: and 100F == "human body temp."  specifically, farenheit's wife.  with a slight cold that day... :-(06:26
mdzfabbione: good luck06:26
fabbioneif everything goes ok i will have full hardware capability within a few hours06:26
mdzlamont_r: which part of the body? :-)06:26
fabbionelamont_r: ehhe sounds fun :-)06:26
lamont_rmdz: ok.  hadn't actually gotten to that part, but walked through grabbing just ubuntu-artwork and waltzed through the .png's06:27
lamont_rmdz: I expect it was an oral temp06:27
=== lamont_r wonders how long it will take Fort Collins' finest to inquire about why he's sitting in a parking lot with the engine running... :)
m_tthewnot long, I'll wager -- although it *is* a weekday06:29
lamont_rand only 22:3006:31
=== wartylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 9 RC bugs to go
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by mdz at Tue Oct 12 22:20:06 2004
=== warthylog [~warthylog@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | 9 RC bugs to go
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by mdz at Tue Oct 12 22:20:06 2004
=== fabbione [~fabbione@port1845.ds1-khk.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbioneno luck :(08:44
mdzfabbione: :-(08:44
fabbionemdz: there is no atm signal at all08:45
thomye gods. mono-assemblies-base is huge :/08:45
mdzthom: universe package, RESOLVED/INVALID :-P08:45
fabbioneeither the system requires an unconfigured router to set parameters (that won't surprise me)08:45
fabbioneor the ISP has done some fucks up08:45
mdzor the telco has done some fucks up08:45
fabbioneeither way tomorrow will be another 2-5 hours downtime08:45
mdzI dunno about telcos in denmark, but here they are notorious08:46
fabbionemdz: here they are pretty good, but the problem is that i have been testing with my router08:46
fabbionetheir router still has to arrive08:46
fabbioneso i am not sure if there might be differences in the configuration08:47
fabbionebut i had to try08:47
thommdz: *g*08:47
pittiHi fabbione! Feeling any better today?08:50
fabbionepitti: yes. i slept until 4 am this morning08:50
fabbionealmost all in a raw08:50
pittisounds good ;-)08:50
mdzI'm looking forward to some of this "sleep" myself08:50
mdzpitti: have you tested the release candidate candidate yet?08:51
pittimdz: It just finished downloading, cd writing is at 5%08:51
mdzpitti: great, thanks08:51
pittimdz: It takes me a while, I only got 50kB/s08:51
pittimdz: I will test powerpc first08:51
=== fabbione feels pretty useless today
mdzpitti: it's only about 25% different from yesterday's daily08:51
mdzfabbione: we still love you!08:51
=== pitti grins
=== fabbione hugs mdz
=== mdz gasps for air
fabbionesince i can't test the crack today...08:52
mdzfabbione: can you test a new portmap package?08:52
fabbionemdz: yes i can do that08:52
=== thom cranks his dsl harder
=== fabbione was writing "mdz: what can i test for you?"
mdzfabbione: i386?08:53
pittigar, another broken cd-rw08:53
fabbionemdz: yeps08:53
mdzfabbione: emailed08:53
fabbionemdz: i cannot do installations from scratch. that's it08:53
mdzfabbione: it listens on only localhost by default08:53
mdzfabbione: (#505)08:53
fabbionemdz: but i can test packages08:53
thomright, nearly have the amd64 iso08:53
mdzsee the comments in #505 about what needs specific testing08:53
mdzthom: do you want me to burn an extra and send it to you?08:54
mdzit might be faster08:54
thomat this rate it might well be :/08:54
thomyay, just finished08:54
mdzmy secret is that I rsync the CD images every night08:54
mdzso I never have more than one day of deltas08:54
=== fabbione does sync 6 times a day :-)
KamionI don't actually rsync automatically, but I rsync most days anyway08:55
fabbionetime to test portmapper from bottom up08:56
thommdz: that was only one day of deltas08:56
thomwell, once i remembered that the names had changes08:56
=== mdz comforts thom
danielsthom: you should move somewhere with decent bandwidth08:58
thomend of november.08:59
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:pitti] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy birthday Matt! 9 RC bugs to go
=== pitti hands mdz a glass of champagner
pittiCheers to our fearless distribution leader!09:00
mdzI'm drinking creamsicles actually :-)09:00
thomhappy birthday dude09:01
=== mdz hobbles around with a cane
=== pitti cannot find "creamsicles" in the dictionary. No matter, if it tastes well :-)
mdzpitti: orange juice and stoli vanil09:01
dokohappy release day ;)09:02
pittiCan we say it's also Warty's birthday? If RC == Final?09:02
mdzpitti: sadly, RC != final09:02
mdzdue to #50509:02
mdzthough maybe fabio's testing will give us a second chance09:03
Kamionany word on gdm artwork?09:03
mdzKamion: hmmm, jdub should be well awake09:03
mdzjdub_: ping?09:03
fabbionemdz: nfs client is ok. portmapper binds to localhost only.09:05
Kamionpowerpc's good, I'm 3 for 309:05
mdzfabbione: I assume locking does not work09:05
fabbionemdz: but i was checking.. there are other services like rpc.statd that are listening on all ips09:05
mdzfabbione: that is OK, those are not enabled unless you install non-default packages (nfs-common()09:05
mdzKamion: Jane might be awake09:06
mdzshe is the other party in possession of the gdm bits09:06
Kamion8am's a bit early yet09:06
mdzrepo man's got all night, every night09:06
mdzwhat time did Mark say he would be back?09:07
thomfucking. i'm so buying a new router when i move09:07
fabbionetcp        0      0 *:32768                 *:*                     LISTEN     09:07
mdzthom: www.soekris.com09:07
fabbione    100021    3   tcp  32768  nlockmgr09:07
mdzfabbione: but without portmap, the server can't find the port number to connect to09:08
fabbionethat's correct09:08
Kamion01:06 < sabdfl> night all, i'm crashing, back in about 7 hrs09:08
Kamion01:06 < sabdfl> night all, i'm crashing, back in about 7 hrs09:08
mdzfabbione: I think we mostly just need to document how to turn on portmap09:08
Kamionso about now09:08
fabbionemdz: i am checking the server side09:09
mdzKamion: that's what I thought09:09
=== hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionok, time for a Windows installation in order to test dual-booting09:09
Kamionpity me09:09
mdzKamion: I haven't seen a non-Canonical install report yet :-/09:09
Kamionnor I09:09
mdzKamion: oh dear09:09
mdzthere ought to be a medal or something09:10
fabbionemount: RPC: Remote system error - Connection refused09:11
fabbionemdz: super!09:11
Kamionmdz: do we have any idea what the timescales are for the rest of today?09:11
Kamionwe need about three hours after the artwork is uploaded, ideally09:11
mdzKamion: I'm in the dark regarding the remaining artwork09:12
KamionI was considering whether it would be possible to crash briefly, but I suspect it won't be09:12
mdzall I know is that jdub and silbs have copies09:12
mdzI SMSed jdub, but no response09:12
mdzKamion: assuming the CD build script still works for me, that's doable09:12
mdzI have a few more hours in me09:12
KamionI'll still have to do publish-release though; that's very raw09:12
KamionI'll keep going on micro-dozes in my chair :)09:13
mdzfabbione: that's pretty good, actually09:13
mdzfabbione: gives a pretty good idea where to look09:13
mdzbetter than, say, segfaulting :-)09:13
mdzit is 0015, why is it hot inside?09:14
mdzah, right, all the computers are on09:15
thommdz: too much vodka?09:15
mdzit was quite hot today as well09:15
mdz84% humidity, yuck09:16
fabbionemdz: you can move here... 6C09:16
mdzfabbione: maximum?09:16
mdzno thanks09:16
thom29C? crikey, it was 10 here today and raining all day09:16
fabbionemdz: in this period the top was 10C yesterday09:17
fabbionemdz: this morning was 4 or something09:17
danielsit was about 24C here today; around 32 yesterday09:17
danielsand it's not even bloody summer :\09:17
mdzaverage high October temp in LA is 23C09:17
danielsluckily it's been raining also09:17
fabbionedaniels: here it's winter.. you live in the wrong side of the world09:17
danielsapparently yesterday was the hottest october day ever; got up to 40C in some parts of Victoria09:17
mdzbut it's generally quite dry, and so very pleasant even when it's hot09:17
=== thom hacks up dbus-cil packages
mdzdaniels: seasons don't really mean anything down there09:18
mdzdaniels: you just make them up as you go along09:18
danielsthom: no, don't09:18
danielsthom: edd already has a patch in the bts09:18
thomoh, gar09:18
danielsmdz: we have 'hot', 'pleasant' and 'visiting englishman'09:18
danielsthe latter involves a lot of rain and biting southerly winds :)09:19
mdzdaniels: which, to a visiting englishman, is 'pleasant', right?09:19
mdzcompared to the UK09:19
makomdz: ok, i'm working on an announce mail09:19
makomdz: is the plan to still have a wide audience for this?09:20
mdzmako: ok, let me know if you need anything09:20
mdzmako: hmm, not sure quite how wide09:20
danielsmdz: itym 'familiar'09:20
thommdz: since the visiting englishman in question had been in .au for the 6 months or so preceeding, no, not really09:20
mdzmako: the wiki says lwn, debian, python, etc.09:20
makomdz: right, this is definitely the RC announcement though, not the real deal09:21
makomdz: yeah09:21
mdzmako: likewise09:21
thomdaniels: build deps for that patch ain't right09:21
danielsthom: it's a start, if nothing else09:21
jdub_mdz: here briefly09:21
jdub_mdz: artwork and homepage bits on their way09:21
jdub_mdz: been at meetings all day09:21
jdub_mdz: coming back in ~30mins09:21
mdzjdub_: ok, artwork is the biggie09:21
fabbionemdz: what's a simple way to test locking on nfs?09:22
mdzfabbione: good question09:22
fabbionemdz: i know it needs lockd running09:22
thomdaniels: yeah, will send updated patch in a few09:22
fabbionebut that's it09:22
justdaveok, my ppc install was successful09:22
mdzfabbione: how about dpkg?09:22
justdaveit finally finished.09:23
danielsthom: phat09:23
mdzjustdave: thanks09:23
=== pitti curses at archive-copier, which takes aaaages
pittiHi elmo09:24
=== daniels kicks his saturated DSL line, complete with flaky router that hd to be power-cycled not long ago.
fabbionemdz: i don't want to ruin your day but nfs-common is in main :-))09:24
danielselmo: 'morning dude09:24
mdzfabbione: yes, I know...?09:24
fabbionemdz: nevermind... :(09:25
fabbionemdz: for dpkg? you mean installing a deb package as a client?09:25
mdzit is not in base or desktop :-)09:25
fabbionemdz: that's easy to test..09:25
mdzfabbione: yes, dpkg does flock() locking I believe09:25
thomok, the gdm startup sound freaks me the fuck out09:25
danielsthom: doubly so when combined with aphex twin09:25
mdzah, it does fcntl()09:25
mdzeven better09:25
danielsthis bloody annoying chirp when the hard drive parks is a great metric of how often it spins up09:27
fabbionemdz: testing in a few... 09:27
Kamionmdz: what, on the .deb, not on /var/lib/dpkg?09:27
mdzKamion: on /var/lib/dpkg09:27
fabbionemdz: i don't have /var on nfs09:27
mdzfabbione: debootstrap, mount, chroot, dpkg?09:27
fabbionemdz: hmmm i can arrange soething09:28
mdzthom: the fact that sound works out of the box freaks me out09:28
fabbionemdz: i need a few minutes to move stuff around09:28
Kamionit's only worked on one out of three machines here09:28
Kamionthe powerbook, I think09:28
thommdz: heh09:28
mdzKamion: what has?09:28
thomok, looks great on amd6409:28
Kamionthen again the amd64 doesn't have speakers09:28
justdaveyeah, worked on the iBook out of the box, too.  cool :)09:28
mdzKamion: RCC?09:28
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzoh, sound09:28
Kamionmdz: sounds09:28
mdzsabdfl: morning09:28
sabdflmorning warthogs!09:29
fabbionemorning sabdfl 09:29
sabdflhey fabbione09:29
sabdflHappy Birthday MDZ!09:29
danielsmdz: happy birthday09:29
danielssabdfl: 'morning09:29
thommorning mark09:29
fabbionemdz: congratulation kid ;)09:30
fabbionemdz: 15 again?09:30
thommdz: still think default shell should be zsh tho ;-)09:30
mdzthom: hoary :-)09:30
mdzsabdfl, daniels, fabbione, pitti: thanks :-)09:30
=== daniels beats xorg@freedesktop.org with the 'glxgears is not a bloody benchmrak' stick.
danielsso tempting to disable the fps display per default09:30
dokothom: does it support utf8 and multibyte?09:30
pittiHi sabdfl09:30
danielsmdz: are you on autoreply? ;)09:31
danielsmdz: i think we should get get flaweless acpi support so we can suspend, resume, and hibernate on every laptop ever09:31
danielsmdz: also, open source support for all wireless cards, and nvidia09:31
=== daniels waits for the 'hoary' reply.
Kamiondunno about autoreply, but I'm on autopilot09:31
Kamiondaniels: you forgot to say "kthxbye"09:31
thomok, so. EVMS worked out of the box. sata_via worked fine, mutt is too old but i can deal with that09:31
mdzdaniels: hoary09:31
sabdflhey Kamion09:31
danielsKamion: ah, my bad09:31
Kamionmorning Mark09:31
danielsmdz: yay!09:31
thomfrom where i'm sat, life is good09:32
Kamionthe "lens passing over test-card" screensaver freaks me out09:32
elmois this "<foo> freaks me out day"? 09:33
Kamionyes, that happens after umpteen hours awake09:33
Kamionalthough I dunno what thom's excuse is, the slacker :)09:34
fabbionemdz: ok.. i have /var/lib/dpkg as a symlink to /home/fabbione/dpkg that is NFS mounted...09:35
thompffft. 5am is not sleeping.09:35
fabbionemdz: right a few secs that i am waiting rsync to finish and i will do an "update"09:35
fabbionemdz: if my workstation will go banana you know who to blame ;)09:36
=== mdz looks around...thom!
fabbionethom: !09:36
elmothom: 5am? dude, you started claiming you were going to bed at like 1109:37
thomelmo: no, i got up at 509:37
fabbionethom: if you want to make all these blames true.. i can handover x.org to you :P09:37
thomi went to bed at 109:37
elmooh, okay, so you only procrastinated for 2 hours :)09:37
thommdz: sorry, kamion has already played the "blame thom" card for the day09:37
thomelmo: *g*09:37
thommdz: it's elmo's turn now09:38
Kamionthom: don't mind me, I'm easily amused today :)09:38
=== fabbione points the finger are elmo
makomdz: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fRCAnnouncementEmail09:38
makobased off the last release announcment09:38
makoi kept the features totally intact09:39
makoand the first paragraph09:39
makodunno if that's still a desireable thing to keep around09:39
Kamionmako: s/before the distribution if/before the distribution is/09:40
fabbionemako: " Our XFree86 packages have been updated to support plenty of new hardware."09:40
fabbionethis is not completely true09:40
Kamionand aaargh, check the use of "it's" :-)09:40
fabbioneand i have been kinda "harassed" for that09:40
dokofinished powerpc and i386 installs. looks ok, besides the known german keyboard problem on powerpc X1109:40
Kamion   GNOME 2.809:40
Kamion        Ubuntu is the first distribution to ship Gnome 2.8, on the day of its release - be the first on your street to try it out!09:40
makofabbione: i didn't edit that part.. :)09:40
makoKamion: right09:40
Kamionthat maybe needs rewording now09:40
makoi should edit that part :)09:40
mdzmako: I think we should tone down the bit about xfree86 hardware support; fabbione will correct me if I'm mistaken, but we have done more work to correctly detect and configure for the hardware than adding support for devices which were not supported previously09:41
fabbionemdz: correct09:41
fabbionewe improved some drivers09:41
fabbionethat's true, but after preview I pushed the drivers to debian too09:41
justdavewhere is says "Firefox 0.9" it might be worth pointing out that we've applied security patches.09:41
makomdz: i've already don this09:42
fabbionetho not all of them are up in the archive yet09:42
justdaveotherwise everyone's going to ask09:42
mdzmako: the copy I'm looking at on the wiki still says " Our XFree86 packages have been updated to support plenty of new hardware."09:43
makomdz: right.. i am making all of these changes and then will save the new page09:43
mdzah, ok09:43
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielshow about 'we have an absolute arseload of patches to XFree86 4.3, and the first person to ask about X.org gets ti maintain 4.3 in the meantim' ;)09:44
danielsgod, my typing is terrible, and I'm not celebrating09:45
makook, there's a batch of changes09:45
mdzmako: looks pretty good09:46
=== justdave_ [~justdave@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzmako: we need to make sure to update /download/ before this goes out09:46
makomdz: yes09:46
makosabdfl: have at it: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fRCAnnouncementEmail09:46
sabdflmako: i'm going to take out a bit of the hype in the announcement09:46
sabdfland warm it up a little with some warthogs humour09:46
elmoyes, please make sure /download/ points at releases.$distro.$tld09:47
mdzsnort, snort09:47
makosabdfl: sounds good :)09:47
=== thom remembers to beat elmo with the "including -n in rsync command lines is bad, mmmkay?" stick
Kamionsabdfl: looked at http://releases.ubuntu.com/ and rsync releases.ubuntu.com::releases/ this morning?09:48
thomdaniels: dry-run09:48
elmofeature ;-P09:48
justdaveis there any significance to the installer coming up with a red background?09:48
Kamionjustdave: buglet in bogl09:48
justdaveit was blue on the iBook...09:48
thomelmo: suuuure09:48
justdavejust booted it on the G4 and it's red. :)09:48
sabdflKamion: looks almost too good to be true... where are the -current- files hidden?09:49
pittijustdave: does it show any error? This is the normal background of error messages...09:49
Kamionjustdave: haven't seen that on any of my machines for months09:49
Kamionsabdfl: .pool; they get magically hidden over HTTP apparently, which is ideal09:49
justdavepitti: no error.  just the screen asking for my language09:49
Kamionsabdfl: look using rsync and you'll see them09:50
sabdfllove it when a plan comes together :-)09:50
KamionI'm hoping it'll actually work in practice :)09:50
Kamionwhen we release the RC, I update the .pool/warty-* hardlinks and rename the warty/warty-* symlinks09:51
justdaveThis is the same machine that the non-smp kernel was hanging on when booted from the hard drive.09:51
justdaveperhaps the installer knows something it isn't telling us :)09:51
Kamionjustdave: it's probably a framebuffer palette glitch09:52
Kamionjustdave: what kind of graphics hardware is it?09:52
justdaveit's stayed red the whole time, for everything.09:52
justdaveNvidia something or other09:52
Kamionmaybe it's an ati vs. nvidia issue then; I haven't seen that on ATI for a long time09:52
justdaveyeah, the iBook is ATI, it was fine09:52
Kamionwill note for future reference09:53
pittimdz:  Just finished iBook installation. Went without the hitch, just the AltGr key (for {}[] @ etc.) still does not work09:54
danielsthe acx100 won't associate with the AP, but if I disable my laptop's wifi long enough (atheros), it will associate just fine, then the laptop associates too, and they all play nicely together.09:54
=== daniels boggle.s
pittimdz: otherwise, nice install experience :-)09:54
=== plovs [~plovs@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
dokopitti: same here09:55
fabbionedoko, pitti: which version of X did you get?09:55
dokotoday's CD09:55
pittifabbione: the one on 12.3 cd09:55
justdaveeither a lot of the install is CPU intensive, or the iBook has a sh***y hard drive in it.09:55
fabbionedoko, pitti: dpkg -p xserver-common09:55
fabbionei need to be sure09:55
pittifabbione: 6ubuntu2409:55
fabbionepitti: which keyboard layout did you get?09:56
pittifabbione: gar, I never noticed this since usually I mount my shared /home09:56
fabbioneand which keyboard model?09:56
pittifabbione: but my ~/.bashrc has an xmodmap call09:56
pittifabbione: shall I look in the gnome setting?09:56
danielsgnome will override it by calling setxkbmap09:56
pittifabbione: I want German with nodeadkeys, pc10509:57
fabbionepitti: no. i want to know what's in the config and what happens if you remove that call09:57
pittidaniels: but the xmodmap call worked fine; I already forgot about it09:57
dokofabbione: 6ubuntu2409:57
dokothis works: http://www.mathematik.uni-marburg.de/~schmidtm/apple/Xmodmap09:57
pittifabbione: I installed this one without my /home, it's absolutely clean09:57
fabbionepitti: on ppc you should get pc10509:57
fabbionei fixed that with ubuntu2409:57
pittifabbione: XF86Config-4 says pc105, de09:58
dokofabbione: yes pc105 is configured09:58
fabbioneso that's correct09:58
fabbionepitti, doko: check gnome at this point09:58
pittifabbione: AltGr should be on the Option (Apple) key, right?09:58
fabbionepitti: i don't know.09:58
fabbionei don't have any kind of ppc at home09:58
pittifabbione: at least that's where I use to have it09:58
fabbionepitti, doko: i have o rely on info coming from you guys09:59
pittifabbione: gnome says german, generic 105-key (Intl) PC09:59
justdavephase 1 complete, rebooting09:59
justdavehey, it boots. :)10:00
mdzjustdave: is this the box that doesn't boot with a non-smp kernel?10:00
justdaveand it's booting10:00
fabbionebah gnome should stop playing with xmodmad & Co.10:00
justdaveI noticed a new kernel up yesterday before getting the new cd images, hadn't had a chance to try it yet10:01
mdzjustdave: the recent kernel changes have been unrelated to ppc10:02
=== fabbione KICKS BUGZILLA!!!!!
justdavethere seemed to be no real pattern to it before...  so perhaps I just got lucky this time.10:02
fabbioneInternal Error10:02
fabbioneBugzilla has suffered an internal error. Please save this page and send it to justdave@canonical.com with details of what you were doing at the time this message appeared.10:02
fabbioneURL: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/process_bug.cgi10:02
fabbioneForm field knob was not defined; this may indicate a bug in your browser. Check that the "Leave as..." radio button was selected. 10:02
fabbionejustdave: one hour of test report gone to hell10:02
mdzfabbione: check /proc/kcore10:03
dokohmm, the left and the right apple key show the same keycode with xev (115, Super_L)10:03
fabbionemdz: locking seems to be working10:03
justdavereloaded the form before you submitted?10:03
mdzfabbione: really? with portmap listening on localhost only?10:03
danielsfabbione: gnome/kde doesn't touch xmodmap10:03
fabbionemdz: yes10:03
justdavethe radio button selection goes away when you hit reload I noticed.10:03
danielsthey use setxkbmap10:03
mdzjustdave: yes, very frustrating10:03
fabbionejustdave: i only hitted "reply" to a comment10:03
justdavewhich seems really stupid, but that's what it's doing.10:03
pittijustdave: yep, this killed more than one report text for me10:03
fabbionemdz: if using /var/lib/dpkg on nfs is the test.. than yes.. it's working10:04
justdaveI've been bit by it a few times myself.  Maybe we should just live with a huge dropdown box and kill the component selector.10:04
mdzfabbione: check strace to be sure10:04
pittidaniels: as I said, with the xmodmap call in ~/.bashrc everything went fine10:04
justdavethat's the only real difference between us and mozilla.org and redhat.com, and they don't seem to have this problem10:04
makosabdfl: looks nice10:06
sabdflmako: still tweaking10:06
sabdflKamion: what's the rsync line to give mirrors for the "iso only" mirror?10:07
fabbioneaccess("/var/lib/dpkg", W_OK)           = 010:08
fabbioneopen("/var/lib/dpkg/lock", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC|O_LARGEFILE, 0660) = 310:08
fabbionefcntl64(3, F_SETLK64, {type=F_WRLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=0, len=0}, 0xbffff8d0) = 010:08
fabbionefcntl64(3, F_GETFD)                     = 010:08
fabbionefcntl64(3, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC)         = 010:08
fabbioneopen("/var/lib/dpkg/status", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 410:08
fabbionefstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2309977, ...}) = 010:08
fabbionemdz: looks very very good!10:08
mdzfabbione: yes, very interesting10:08
mdzI wonder if lockd just listens on a standard port10:08
fabbionemdz: let me check10:08
pittidoko: did you file a bug for this altgr thingy? I cannot find it in bz10:08
fabbione    100021    3   tcp  32768  nlockmgr10:09
fabbionenetstat -an | grep 3276810:09
fabbionetcp        0      0 *               LISTEN     10:09
fabbioneudp        0      0 *                          10:09
fabbioneit's listening on everything, but portmapper is only on localhost10:09
mdzfabbione: do you actually see traffic to 32768?10:10
fabbionemdz: i didn't check10:10
fabbionelet me see10:10
dokopitti: the same keycode?10:15
fabbionemdz: i don't see any traffic10:15
mdzfabbione: did you try unmounting and remounting?10:15
mdzmaybe it checks when mounting if lockd is there, and disables locking if not10:15
fabbioneno. i did try only using the partition/installing a package10:15
fabbionehold on10:15
pittidoko, fabbione: argh, now even my xmodmap call does not work any more10:16
pittidoko: what do you mean?10:16
dokopitti: ugh, the eject button is mapped to Super_R (116)10:16
fabbionemdz: hmmm10:17
fabbionethere is something wrong in my test10:17
fabbionemdz: locking is done by the server...10:18
makomdz: i think i'm going to crash for some period of time.. is it important for me to resurface at a given time? sending an announcment, etc?10:18
dokopitti: I just discovered the altgr thing, so no bug report yet.10:18
fabbioneand clearly the server doesn't work if you don't let portmap to listen on the iface10:19
pittidoko: oh, I thought you were the one who filed it10:19
mdzmako: I can send off the announcements10:19
fabbionemdz: so once you open portmap you also open lockd (if running)10:19
makomdz: alright.. bcc lwn@lwn.net :)10:19
fabbionemdz: mine were clientside tests :/10:19
makoi should be up in a few hours10:19
fabbionemdz: i did only a simple test on the server for mounting/umounting10:19
makoand i can just resent bounce where necessary10:19
makonight then.. don't hesitate to call/sms if necessary10:19
justdavemdz: yup, just got lucky.  rebooted and it hung10:20
justdave2nd try it booted10:21
sabdflmako: early please, this will likely go out around 1200 UTC10:24
sabdflwhich is *early* NYC time10:24
danielssabdfl: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=79010:32
justdaveok, confirmed, the component selector is what's breaking the cache somehow...  the Websites product doesn't use it, and Websites bugs don't lose their cache when you hit back.10:33
mdzgoing to try to sleep for 20-30 minutes10:39
danielsmdz: sleep well10:40
fabbionemdz: portmap is ok for me if you want to upload it10:40
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburtonpitti: i replicated the ipod eject hang and got something maybe useful10:45
pittirburton: I just read your bug followup, nice10:45
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-7-49.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
rburtonah just the man10:46
rburtonhi seb128!10:46
pittiHi seb128!10:46
seb128hey rburton & pitti & everybody else :)10:46
rburtonseb128: so gnome and my keyboard disagree until i add an option which claims to be the default.  should X add it magically?10:47
rburton(the "super is mapped to win keys" option in the keyboard capplet)10:47
fabbionerburton: X doesn't configure or set any default in gnome10:48
seb128rburton: is that the "altwin:super_win" option ?10:49
rburtonseb128: yes10:49
fabbioneand it will never do that10:49
rburtonfabbione: the gnome xkb stuff10:49
seb128rburton: Denis Barbier said we should add this in the XFConfig86-4 by default yeah10:49
fabbionerburton: " should X add it magically? "10:49
rburtonfabbione: i meant X configuration, on a pc105 keyboard10:49
fabbioneseb128: reference please?10:50
Kamionsabdfl: releases.ubuntu.com::releases/10:50
seb128fabbione: private mail in french when I mailed him about #1390 10:50
seb128I'm checking 1390 but I think that's in the bug report10:50
danielsrburton: yo10:51
danielsseb128: sup10:51
seb128comment #1610:51
rburtonyo yo daniels10:51
seb128"Setting altwin:super_win option should do the trick.  The problem is that GNOME components are XKB-unaware, so modifiers have to be bound to real keys.  Adding this option by default in a GNOME environment is surely a good idea."10:51
=== rburton bops along to Liquid Swords
seb128hey daniels10:51
rburtonseb128: gnome claims altwin:super_win is the default, i take it that is wrong10:52
fabbione"Adding this option by default in a GNOME environment is surely a good idea"10:52
fabbioneseb128: that doesn't tell me it needs to be set in X10:52
seb128we are in a GNOME environment -> we should add it in the xfree config10:52
fabbionea good idea also doesn't mean that it won't break the hell...10:52
fabbionewhat happens for users that use some other settings?10:53
fabbionewhat are the regressions at 7 days from final?10:53
seb128no idea sorry, I don't know a lot about xfree xkb stuff10:53
danielsif it's a good thing to have for GNOME, why not add it in the gnome keyboard manager?10:54
danielsi'm also not so white-hot keen on changing it in X10:54
justdavecache problem is gone on bugzilla10:54
justdavefound it finally10:54
danielsespecially given the amount of seemingly unrelated shit that breaks every time someone touches XKB10:55
fabbionedaniels: agreed10:55
rburtonwimps! ;)10:55
danielsit's been a nightmare for us so far, and I'm extremely reluctant to touch it, *except* to fix the reversion from ubuntu1910:55
fabbionesooner or later we will get bugs like: Why my Xserver installation didn't detect my wifi WEP key encryption at 4096 bit automatically? ;)10:55
rburtonquick question -- if i have the nvidia drivers loaded, will hotplug detect and load the nvidia module or should i add it to /etc/modules?  i'm doing the latter atm10:56
danielsand it will be traced back to super_l not being a modifier in xkb or some bong like that10:56
fabbionerburton: the latter10:56
pittidoko: #2327, you might want to CC on it10:56
rburtonfabbione: ok, thanks10:56
danielsshouldn't the X driver load the kernel module automatically?10:56
fabbionerburton: can you do a test for me?10:56
fabbionedaniels: no it doesn't10:56
rburtonfabbione: sure10:57
fabbionerburton: downgrade to xlibs ubuntu23 and cp -rp /etc/X11/xkb* somewhere10:57
fabbioneinstall ubuntu2410:57
fabbioneand send me the diff between the 2 dirs10:57
fabbionei am curios if something that we can catch easily10:57
rburtonwhere can i get ubuntu23 from?10:57
pittirburton, daniels: you can set IGNORE_PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY to false in /etc/default/hotplug, then the module should load automatically10:58
fabbionehmmmm nowhere i guess10:58
=== doko [doko@dsl-084-057-045-178.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittidoko: Hi! I just submitted #2327, you might want to CC on it10:59
rburtonpitti: sweet10:59
pittirburton: it wasn't Unix if it worked without configuration :-/10:59
fabbioneelmo: can we get xlibs ubuntu23 from the "deb cemetary"?10:59
elmofabbione: jackass/morgue from within the lan11:03
elmoI'll work on making it more publicly available, but for now, you can grab what you need, I guess11:03
fabbioneelmo: thanks11:04
sabdflelmo: what's the rsync location for the "minimalist iso-only" mirror?11:07
dokopitti: ok, digging me through /etc/X11/kbd ...11:07
elmosabdfl: <Kamion> sabdfl: releases.ubuntu.com::releases/11:08
sabdflelmo, kamion, thnaks11:08
fabbionerburton: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/23_to_24.diff11:11
fabbionethat's the diff from u23 to u24 of /etc/X11/xkb*11:12
fabbionerburton: mind to look and see if you spot something that might have changed the behaviour11:12
danielselmo: i assume that's http://jackass/morgue/ ?11:17
fabbionepitti: if you revert to xlibs ubuntu23 does it work?11:23
dokofabbione: xserver-common only?11:24
fabbionedoko: xlibs_ only11:24
fabbioneand of course you must restart X11:24
fabbioneif you don't have the old version you can grab it here;11:25
fabbioneah bah.. you are on ppc11:27
dokofabbione: wait, I can't type ~ on the powerpc :-(11:27
fabbionedoko: you will have to grab it from the morgue in case11:27
pittidoko: you can do it on the text consoles11:27
pittidoko: just use alt, alt and command are swapped there11:27
fabbionenevermind.. the package is _all.deb11:27
pittifabbione: I installed your xlibs deb, restarted gdm, no change11:32
pittifabbione: even the xmodmap call does not work11:32
danielselmo: have you broken rsync on auckland recently? :)11:34
danielselmo: nevermind11:35
sabdfljdub_: i have widescreen images too11:36
sabdflcoming up by mail11:36
fabbionepitti: since how long you didn't restart X?11:40
pittifabbione: 5 minutes11:41
fabbionepitti: you will have to go trough the morgue and figure from which version to which version the call to xmodmap is broken11:41
pittifabbione: okay. Where is the morgue?11:41
fabbionepitti: no. i mean.. you noticed with ubuntu24.. what was the last version that was working?11:41
fabbionepitti: http://jackass/morgues from within the lan11:41
fabbionepitti: also.. if you call xmodmap from within X11:42
pittifabbione: ugh, I just overwrote that one by today's installation :-(11:42
fabbioneinstead of .bashrc, does it work?11:42
pittifabbione: I tried to call it manually in a gnome terminal11:42
fabbionepitti: xterm please11:42
fabbionegnome-terminal might do fancy things11:42
pittiugh, xterm has an uuuugly font11:43
pittifabbione: nope11:43
fabbionepitti: i don't really care about fonts here :P11:43
sabdfljdub_: widescreen images are on their way to you now, a biggish email so let me know if it's not there in 511:44
pittifabbione: ubuntu22 was uploaded Sep 27, I definitively reinstalled the iBook after this date11:44
pittifabbione: I'm pretty sure I had ubuntu22 before11:45
|trey|pitti: what are you refering to as ubuntu22?11:45
pitti|trey|: the X server11:45
jdub_sabdfl: backgrounds, or...?11:45
fabbionepitti: than please grab ubuntu2211:46
pittifabbione: don't get me wrong, the xmodmap call does not need to work if I can get AltGr by other means11:46
pittifabbione: okay, I'll do11:46
=== |trey| wants to know what ubuntu22 entails :(
fabbionepitti: xmodmap should work11:46
=== justdave_ [~dave@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittifabbione: xlibs is sufficient?11:46
fabbionei need to know when X broke11:46
fabbionepitti: yes11:46
fabbionepitti: also.. before the default was "macintosh" and not "pc105"11:47
fabbionepitti: so you need to double test it11:47
fabbioneonce with pc105 once with mac11:47
pittifabbione: okay11:47
fabbionepitti: btw.. next time buy an i386.. it has better support :P11:47
=== fabbione hides
pittifabbione: I have an i38611:48
pittifabbione: but I really like my ppc, in particular because it is a different platform to test things :-)11:48
pittifabbione: ubuntu2[34]  with macintosh does not work11:50
pittifabbione: http://jackass/morgues does not exist11:51
fabbionepitti: morgue12:00
pittifabbione: I already tried that12:00
fabbionefrom within the LAN12:00
=== mvo [~egon@suprimo-220.ping.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiHi mvo!12:01
pittifabbione: I tried from chinstrap12:01
fabbionepitti: i took ubunut23 out of that12:02
mvohi pitti !12:02
fabbionewget http://jackass/morgue/12:02
fabbionepitti: from roockery12:03
=== plovs [~plovs@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionesame from chinstrap12:03
pittifabbione: ERROR 404: Not Found.12:03
fabbioneadd the / at the end12:04
pittifabbione: thanks, that was it12:04
pittifabbione: just installed xlibs ubuntu22, same result12:10
pittifabbione: do I have to regenerate some keymaps or delete something from my ~?12:11
=== pitti tries with a fresh user
fabbionepitti: nothing to regenerate12:11
fabbionepitti: just be sure to kill X12:11
pittifabbione: I restarted gdm completely12:11
fabbione /etc/init.d/gdm stop/start12:11
pittifabbione: I'm absolutely sure that this worked until yesterday12:11
fabbionepitti: good point.. try with a fresh user12:11
fabbionepitti: there have been some gnome updates too12:12
fabbionei can't guarantee if something else broke down12:12
fabbionegnome takes over keyboard stuff12:12
pittifabbione: BTW, now it asks me whether to use the GNOME or the X settings. Does not make any difference, though12:12
fabbioneand it does not make things simpler12:12
fabbionepitti: yes it does12:12
fabbioneuse the X settings :-)12:12
fabbioneso we will isolate the problem12:12
pittiI did :-)12:13
fabbionekill the user... use the gnome settings12:13
fabbioneand see what happens12:13
pittiargh, my test user cannot login with a completely empty ~12:15
pittifabbione: fresh test user with xlibs ubuntu22: same result, xmodmap does not work12:19
pittifabbione: this must be a gnome thingy12:19
fabbionepitti: than something else is changes12:19
fabbionechanged even12:19
pittifabbione: shall I beat up seb128 then?12:19
fabbionepitti: can you revert to ubuntu18?12:20
pittifabbione: I can12:20
fabbionepitti: please do12:20
fabbioneand remember to cleanup the ~ of the user from the gnome crap12:20
=== rabidbt [~rabidbt@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittifabbione: same result. Shall I try in twm, or so=12:25
pittifabbione: s/=/?/12:25
sabdflwhat's the best url to point people at for an introduction to linux that's vendor neutral?12:25
sabdflfor our default home page12:25
pittifabbione: doesn't work in "Terminal" session either :-(12:26
thomsabdfl: http://www.linux.org/ isn't so bad12:27
pittifabbione: startx with 'exec xterm' in ~/.xsession still does not work. This is the most basic and close-to-X method I know12:27
pittifabbione: maybe it is some other X package apart from xlibs?12:28
fabbionepitti: i doubt.12:28
fabbionepitti: the xkb stuff is only in xlibs12:28
fabbionebut manly we changed xlibs and xserver-*12:28
fabbioneso you can try a combination of them12:28
fabbionebut nothing is changed that cannot load .xsession or similar12:28
fabbionei am 1000% sure about it12:28
pittifabbione: I try to purge and reinstall the xlibs first12:29
pittifabbione: by now I just downgraded12:29
thomseb128: gnome weather applet is missing just about all the locations barring noirth american and mid east12:32
fabbionepitti: do you have an old sounder cd?12:33
pittithom, seb128: I reported this as #232512:33
=== rabidbt [~rabidbt@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittifabbione: no, I rsync them every day :-( 12:33
pittifabbione: and my previous CD-RW broke this morning12:33
pittifabbione: not the best day today, I guess12:33
fabbioneyeah there have been no sounders for a while12:33
seb128thom,pitti: I've just upload a fixed package for the weather12:33
elmoOct 13 11:33:12 mirnyy postfix/master[6882] : fatal: /etc/postfix/master.cf: line 84: bad hostname or network address: ::112:34
seb128in fact that's in upload12:34
fabbionepitti: without these info there is really nothing i can do12:34
elmouh.. does that mean our postfix config breaks on kernels without ipv6 or am I being stupid ?12:34
pittifabbione: I try to revert to xserver-xfree86 ubuntu1812:34
fabbioneelmo: lamont fixed that a while ago12:34
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel []
elmofabbione: I just purged and reinstalled postfix - same thing?12:38
pittifabbione: YEAH! It works with xserver-xfree ubuntu18!12:38
pittifabbione: that's something for a start12:38
pittifabbione: I will slowly upgrade to the recent versions and isolate the problematic package12:38
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdfljdub_: looks great, needs a tweak or two12:40
sabdflon 1024x768, the shoulder at the bottom is clipped12:40
sabdflneed to shift that image up a few pixels12:40
fabbioneelmo: hold on a sec.. i can't remember in which version it has been fixed12:42
=== seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-6-116.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbioneelmo: postfix (2.1.1-4) unstable; urgency=low12:42
fabbioneor higher12:42
jdub_sabdfl: that's going to be a design co. thing if anything12:42
jdub_hrm, guess it can be done underneaththe blue bar12:43
fabbionepitti: what does work with ubuntu18? the alt+gr or the xmodmad command?12:43
pittifabbione: without any xmodmap invocation the Option key at least does something; it prints other characters (though the wrong ones)12:43
jdub_sabdfl: trouble is, it's all relative12:43
pittifabbione: if I issue the xmodmap command then, it works correctly12:44
pittifabbione: I already upgraded the xlibs to the most recent version, still works12:44
pittifabbione: now I upgrade the xserver to 22, 2312:44
=== silbs [~jane@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittifabbione: I write this up as bug followup12:46
sabdfljdub_: ok, we'll ship it as is. i think it looks FANTASTIC12:47
fabbionepitti: ok...12:47
sabdflneed to test quickly on much bigger screen, and widescreen12:47
jdub_sabdfl: it's going to look like horseshit on widescreen12:48
jdub_sabdfl: and without having non-bleed images (as suggested), we can't make it otherwise at this stage12:48
jdub_sabdfl: i mailed you about this and the logo issue last week12:48
sabdflasking for non-bleed images on the morning of the release is horseshit :-)12:49
sabdfldidn't see it, didn't hear anything else from you12:49
sabdflanyhow, nuff said, let's get it wrapped12:49
sabdflwhat's the logo issue?12:49
jdub_the bottom right logo could be a separate image, to avoid mushing stuff over it (blue bar)12:49
jdub_ideally, each image component would be separate12:50
jdub_we can compose them flexibly in the theme12:50
jdub_(if the people were separate, and it didn't bleed, we could have those hanging on the left, etc)12:51
sabdfljdub_: Oops.12:54
sabdflthe calendar image (non-ws) needs an update, in mail to you now12:55
thomhrmph, who forgot to add amd64 to architectures lists for mono?12:59
pittifabbione: ugh, this is a tricky one. I followed up in bz01:02
fabbionepitti: that can't be possible01:04
sabdflKamion: status update01:04
pittifabbione: I tried two times01:04
sabdfljdub_: Kamion: i'm finishing up skinning the new default home page with limi01:04
pittifabbione: purge xserver, isntall 24 -> does not work; install 23, upgrade to 24 -> works01:04
sabdflshould be done in about 20 minutes01:05
fabbionepitti: it would be interesting to know if starting from ubuntu18 to ubuntu24 there are leftovers from one installation -> upgrade to the other01:05
sabdflto whom should i send the files?01:05
jdub_sabdfl: me, so they can go in ubuntu-artwork01:05
pittifabbione: maybe 23 installs some files which are necessary?01:05
fabbionebut if you can reproduce it with u23.. the latter woulb ok01:05
pittifabbione: what is the other?01:05
sabdflelmo: i still see no warty-security for multiverse?01:05
jdub_sabdfl: have the firefox and epiphany packages been modified to suit?01:05
sabdfljdub_: no afaik01:05
fabbionepitti: i would check all the Xserver files and /etc/X1101:05
sabdflthom: offline homepage is incoming01:06
pittifabbione: with debdiff?01:06
fabbionepitti: but that's why we have a MANIFEST check01:06
fabbioneno. on the real installation01:06
jdub_sabdfl: offline homepage goes in ubuntu-artwork01:06
jdub_sabdfl: the browser packages just need the home location changed01:06
fabbionepitti: the MANIFEST file would fail if files are added or removed without specific integration01:06
sabdfljdub_: yes, understood01:06
thomcool. goes in u-a, ffox depends on it and changes home location01:06
sabdflthom: will you handle the firefox upload?01:06
sabdflwho will do epiph?01:07
jdub_i can01:07
pittifabbione: so I diff -Nru /etc/X11 between the two possibilities (install from scratch and upgrade)?01:07
fabbionepitti: that's the first thing i would do01:07
jdub_thom: i'm thinking /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html -> yeah?01:07
fabbionepitti: take into account the diff i posted to people/~fabbione01:07
fabbionepitti: there are updates in ubuntu2401:07
fabbionepitti: but it doesn't explain why upgrading works and installing from scratch no01:08
=== jdub_ wilts in the heat.
pittifabbione: no, I meant: I isntall 24, save /etc/X11; then it install 23, upgrade to 24, save /etc/X11 and then compare01:08
pittifabbione: so theoretically there should be no differences01:08
fabbionepitti: oh right01:08
thomjdub_: looks sane01:08
fabbionepitti: yes theoretically no difference01:08
Kamionjdub_: /usr/share/doc sounds bad01:08
KamionI'd go for somewhere in /var01:08
Kamionor /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html maybe01:09
thomKamion: /usr/share/u-a no?01:09
thomsorry, didn't see the doc/ originally01:09
fabbionepitti: are you still testing with startx only or are you involving gnome too?01:09
pittifabbione: with startx because it is faster, but I checked also with gnome01:10
fabbionepitti: ok01:10
thomjdub_: what's the version of ubuntu-artwork you're uploading?01:13
elmosabdfl: added - it'll be in the next cron.daily01:14
pittifabbione: odd, the only difference is XkbModel pc105 (install from scratch) vs. XkbModel macintosh (upgrade); seems it does have to do with this change after all...01:15
pittifabbione: I think I tested the keyboard layout change only in Gnome, not in Terminal session01:16
thomjdub_: building now01:17
fabbionepitti: is gnome aware of tXkbModel ?01:17
fabbionepitti: or it doesn't care?01:17
pittifabbione: I don't know01:17
fabbionepitti: if you revert pc105 to macintosh in ubuntu24, does it work?01:17
fabbione(on a fresh install)01:17
pittifabbione: I'm right at trying this01:17
pittifabbione: yes, works01:18
pittifabbione: puuh...01:18
pittifabbione: so changing macintosh to pc105 breaks xmodmap in pure X01:18
fabbionepitti: at this point you and carlos and canonical have to agree of what XkbModel you want for ppc01:18
pittifabbione: now I try with gnome01:19
fabbioneotherwise i must ask01:19
pittifabbione: hm, macintosh always worked fine for me; is it possible to fix xmodmap in pc105?01:19
pittifabbione: OTOH, maybe the Option key just has another keycode in pc10501:19
pittiby now I use 73, but I can find that out with xev, right?01:20
fabbionepitti: i have no idea....01:20
fabbionepitti: yes you can check with xev01:20
pittifabbione: nope, it's the same keycode and xmodmap still does not work01:21
pittifabbione: also, with macintosh Option+key prints another character, but with pc105 it does nothing01:21
fabbionepitti:  169001:23
fabbioneeither is pc105 or mac by default01:23
fabbionepitti: there is no much time to figure out what to do01:23
fabbionemy suggestion to reintroduce the question for ppc had a negative consensum01:23
pittiokay, as expected it works with installing from scratch, changing back to macintosh and using the X keyboard settings01:25
fabbionewe found a weird debconf bug01:26
fabbionedb_set template/foo01:26
fabbione(question is not shown(01:26
fabbionedb_get template/foo01:26
fabbioneit returns the default and not what it has been set?01:27
fabbioneand nobody ever noticed before?01:27
=== Mithrandir waves
fabbione+ db_set xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list '1152x768 @ 60Hz'01:27
jdub_sabdfl: home page was sent...?01:28
fabbione+ db_input low xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list01:28
fabbione+ db_go01:28
fabbione+ db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list01:28
fabbione+ RET=640x480 @ 60Hz01:28
Kamionfabbione: never seen anything like that happen01:30
fabbioneKamion: never mind01:30
fabbioneI just figured01:30
Kamionfabbione: is xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list a select list?01:30
Kamionif so, is that value in its list of choices?01:30
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbioneKamion: exaclty01:31
fabbionewhere is the PENDING upload status???01:31
Kamionuh, are we getting a new X upload before the RC?01:32
fabbioneKamion: probably yes01:32
danielsmdz has stated it's frozen01:32
Kamionisn't that a bit risky?01:32
danielsbut I would really like to see one01:32
fabbionesabdfl: you around?01:32
danielsalso, by the time all the buildds pick it up, and it hits the archive ...01:32
danielsmdz: ^^01:32
Kamionit'll take ages; I thought we were just waiting for ubuntu-artwork01:33
sabdflfabbione: yes01:33
fabbionesabdfl: we have a problem with XkbModel for ppc01:34
sabdflfabbione: ok01:34
fabbioneit's a 50% 50% bet...01:34
sabdfl50/50 it's fixed with the upload?01:34
danielssabdfl: neither of us have Powerbooks01:34
fabbionesabdfl: well basically either we make happy 50% of the ppc users or the other 50% of the ppc users01:34
sabdflfabbione: can we get it 100%, in the next hour?01:34
sabdflhow the hell did we miss half the ppc world till now?01:35
fabbionesabdfl: i can make them almost happy, but that means reintroducing a question for X during ppc (only) installation01:35
=== Kamion wonders when the hell he's going to sleep today
fabbionesabdfl: because i don't have 2 ppc to test on ;)01:35
fabbionesabdfl: either i fix it for final01:36
fabbioneor Kamion will not go to sleep today01:36
fabbionehounestly i would prefer for final01:36
sabdflok, this is rc, we can't make it final01:37
sabdflso kamion, please just wait for artwork and firefox default home page and SHIP IT!01:38
sabdflerm, mdz?01:38
sabdflgetting ahead of myself there01:38
pittifabbione, sabdfl: if you want to introduce a question, you can as well point the users to dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 afterwards01:38
Kamionwe still need that portmap fix for final anyway01:38
pittifabbione, sabdfl: I don't think that the AltGr issue is RC, it can easily be fixed01:38
sabdfloh, ok, i though we had a good chance for this to be final01:39
sabdfli guess mdz is still crashed01:39
pittifabbione, sabdfl: and if you ask the question on installation, users can only gamble and guess anyway01:39
fabbionepitti: it is RC if you can't type half of the chars on your keyboard01:39
sabdflpitti, fabbione: is this not something we can autodetect?01:39
Kamionmdz/fabbione had a fix-candidate for portmap, but it hasn't yet been uploaded01:39
fabbionesabdfl: no unfrotunatly01:39
fabbioneKamion: i only did the tests. mdz has the source01:39
pittisabdfl, fabbione: please be aware that AltGr _never_ worked on ppc, also not with previous versions01:39
sabdflbut it's only ppc users that get asked the question?01:39
fabbioneKamion: the patch is in bugzilla01:40
Kamion09:39 < mdz> going to try to sleep for 20-30 minutes01:40
fabbionesabdfl: yes01:40
Kamionhe might have overdone it01:40
sabdflwel, he deserves it01:40
sabdfland it's not critical since we're definitely not going final today01:40
sabdflok, let's get this sucker on the wire01:40
sabdfljdub_: got the default home page?01:40
sabdflthom: fixed firefox?01:40
pittifabbione: if you ask the question, can you make sure that the xmodmap modification is done by default? Otherwise it makes no sense since you need the xmodmap to get a workign keyboard01:40
thomsabdfl: building currently01:41
jdub_sabdfl: just then01:41
jdub_sabdfl: can't see any errors - can i s/Gnome/GNOME/ ?01:44
sabdfljdub_: sure01:44
pittifabbione: the best thing IMHO would be to make xmodmap work for pc105, but I don't know whether this is possible01:44
fabbionepitti: how can i set that option within the X config?01:44
pittifabbione: you mean like the extra options, win:altgr or so?01:45
pittifabbione: I never found a solution for this, there is just no altgr modifier01:45
jdub_sabdfl: btw, are we meant to be referring to it as 'Ubuntu' everywhere, despite the website url? the first sentence is 'Ubuntu Linux is...'01:45
pittifabbione: I needed something like Apple:AltGr, or Option:AltGr01:45
pittifabbione: BTW, the Apple key is recognized as Super_L01:45
sabdfljdub_: that's planned01:46
fabbionepitti: if you know how to do it.. let's do it.. otherwise i will only ask to confirm the Model01:46
sabdflwe need a little Linux here and there at the moment01:46
sabdflcan drop it later01:46
pittifabbione: the "otherwise" part does not really make sense---altgr will not work regardless of the selected model01:47
sabdflwe'll add a portlet with a good description of ubuntu (spirit of humanity) for final01:47
pittifabbione: there's neither AltGr or SuperL in the available options, so if that should work, new options must be invented01:49
fabbionepitti: ah01:51
sabdflartwork upload status? firefox status?01:52
sabdflare there test packages I can try please?01:52
fabbionepitti: i guess that we will skip the question part than01:52
fabbionepitti: people that needs specific configs like yours will have to do it manually for warty01:53
fabbionedaniels: you around?01:53
sabdfljdub: will get you the gdm image components today, so we can have a new package post-RC thatdoes gdm properly for 4:3 and widescreen01:53
pittifabbione: agreed. We need a faq for the xmodmap part anyway, then we can add the macintosh part as well01:53
jdub_sabdfl: great, thanks01:53
danielsfabbione: 'sup01:53
sabdfljdub_: is there a test package of what you are submitting to the rc?01:53
sabdflthom: same for firefox?01:53
jdub_sabdfl: just building now, will take a bit to upload01:53
jdub_sabdfl: i'll mail you the separation reqs01:54
sabdfljdub_: please ping this forum with a url as soon as it's built somewhere so we can test it while kamion builds the cd image01:54
sabdfljdub_: cool01:54
sabdfldamn, 1200UTC is in SIX MINUTES01:54
sabdflKamion: time to build the cd?01:55
Kamionum, no :)01:55
=== sabdfl searches for faster build system for kamion
sabdfljdub_: eta for artwork for kamion?01:55
Kamionthe packages aren't even in the archive yet, I need a time machine as well01:55
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sabdflthom: eta for firefox?01:55
rburtonthis is getting exciting ;)01:56
rburtonpeople all over the world, starting to panic01:56
sabdflrburton: you mean, at RHAT?01:56
jdub_sabdfl: 5 min01:56
thomsabdfl: i can upload it untested01:56
ehbmy ubuntu installtion cd is unable to mount the cd-rom which is really a crucial bug since I'm stuck 01:56
thombut it's still building01:57
Kamionehb: which CD?01:57
jdub_sabdfl: 6 min01:57
ehbthe one uploaded the 28th september01:57
danielsehb: what sort of cd-rom drive is it?01:57
sabdflehb: give us an hour and we'll publish the RC01:57
danielsehb: just a normal ide cd-rom drive?01:57
Kamionsabdfl: you're optimistic01:57
ehbyes normal IDE 01:57
Kamionsabdfl: it'll take an hour minimum for builds to arrive in the archive01:58
sabdflOK, so we are at 1500 UTC for release then?01:58
sabdflhour to get builds, hour to make cdimage, hour for slips?01:58
ehbKamion, after trying from source install from cd install also fails, I'm really concidering giving up on ubuntu01:58
sabdflmako: around?01:59
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Kamionehb: you've managed to pick a time when we're all flat-out, unfortunately01:59
jdub_sabdfl: erm, still around 5 mins to go... .au bandwidth is grrrreat!01:59
jdub_ehb: someone on #ubuntu might be able to help you in the mean time01:59
Kamionehb: I'd be inclined to try a current daily build as the first port of call, though02:00
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=== qwest [~qwest@raven.mr.co.za] has left #ubuntu-devel []
pittifabbione: I've found it!! I've found it!!!! ;-))02:02
pittifabbione: it works with grp:lwin_switch (in macintosh layout)02:02
fabbionei found teh reason why some people had a 640x480 screen!02:03
pittifabbione: day starts to get better, doesn't it? :-)02:03
danielsfabbione: why?02:03
fabbionepitti: considering that the adsl at my new house isn't working yet... yes02:03
pittifabbione: not everything at the same time...02:03
fabbionedaniels: we were getting the wrong frequencies. I didn't expect the template to be so... hmmm "empty"02:04
danielsfabbione: hm?02:04
fabbione      db_input low xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list || true02:04
fabbione      db_go02:04
fabbione        db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list02:04
fabbionebasically if the resolution is not there we were always getting 640x480 @ 60 Hz as default02:05
danielsah, bong02:05
fabbione      db_input low xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list || true02:05
fabbione      db_go02:05
fabbione      if [ -n "MAXRES" ] ; then02:05
fabbione        RET="MAXRES"02:05
fabbione      else02:05
fabbione        db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list02:05
fabbione      fi02:05
fabbionethis is the fix02:05
danielsthere are some really wack resolutions though02:05
danielslike 2777x2700 came up the other day02:05
fabbioneif MAXRES exists it means that we are still guessing02:05
danielsfor like some 14" 4:3 LCD02:05
jdub_^ check that02:06
jdub_sabdfl: ^02:06
fabbioneso we need to respect the wack resolution or the fact that the results might not be in the template02:06
sabdfljdub_: thanks02:06
sabdflplease, everybody bang on that02:06
sabdflthome, please do the same as soon as you have a build02:06
danielsjdub_: changes?02:06
fabbionedaniels: that change will fix that problem too02:06
jdub_daniels: on-disk home page, gdm screen, splash, backgrounds02:06
fabbionedaniels: it's pretty generic02:06
danielsfabbione: cool02:06
danielsjdub_: ahr!02:06
fabbione  * Fix a nasty bug in frequencies detection logic to get a better02:07
fabbione    clue if the resolution is not in the mode-list template. This fix will02:07
fabbione    also catch all the unknown resolutions without projecting the users02:07
fabbione    back in time to a 640x480@60Hz view of the world.02:07
fabbionedaniels: what about the last changes Denis did in SVN about XKB?02:08
danielsfabbione: nice02:08
danielsfabbione: don't know enough about XKB to comment, really02:08
fabbionedaniels: i think it is pretty much sane to get them02:08
danielsall I can say is that I assume he knows what he's doing02:09
sabdflfabbione: what about daniels concerns that this could give whacked resolutions like 2777x2700?02:09
fabbionesabdfl: this change fixes the frequencies detection problem on whatever resolution we get back02:10
fabbionesabdfl: specially when the resolution is UNKNOWN and we are guessing02:10
Kamionnew u-a seems to work on this i386 laptop02:10
Kamionwonder how well the gnome-session image will go over02:11
danielsfabbione: yeah, but sometimes ddcprobe feeds back resolutions like 2777x2700 because monitors are really really stupid and break ddc02:12
jdub_Kamion: mm02:12
fabbionepitti: ok.. so if we set XkbModel to macintosh, we need to set grp:lwin_switch?02:13
pittifabbione: with this it works fine, yes.02:13
fabbionedaniels: well.. that goes behiond my possibilities to fix crap around02:13
lamontdaniels: but my monitor _works_ with ctiming: 1792x1344@6002:13
sabdflKamion: what's the best HTTP url to be pointing people at for download now?02:13
Kamionis the session splash configurable?02:13
pittifabbione: but grp:lwin_switch does not work with pc10502:13
fabbionepitti: what happen if you do that on pc105 layout?02:13
sabdflam editing the web site now02:13
thomjdub_: gdmthemetester looks good02:13
pittifabbione: nothing :-) It is essentially the same like the xmodmap call02:13
lamontdo we have torrent?02:14
Kamionsabdfl: can it wait until the RC actually exists? until then I'd like it left at Sounder 902:14
jdub_thom: awesome image02:14
pittifabbione: I don't know anything about the keymap stuff, but I try to add the option to pc10502:14
sabdflkamion: ok.... twitchy trigger finger mark02:14
danielsfabbione: that's one of the reasons why I liked the whitelist02:14
thomlamont: yes02:14
danielsfabbione: could we please get 1792x1344 in the whitelist?02:14
fabbionedaniels: of which template? 02:15
sabdflthom: is there a place to fetch your build of firefox yet?02:15
danielsfabbione: mode-list02:15
Kamionjdub_: no preview of Human visible in gdmsetup?02:15
fabbionedaniels: we have 2 templates for resolutions. one for the pure size of the screen and one for the frequencies02:15
danielsfabbione: i think maintaining a whitelist is the best solution imho02:15
danielsfabbione: a lot of monitor just give back complete shit in dtiming02:15
Kamionit just says "No screenshot available"02:15
jdub_Kamion: ah, bong, forgot to add the thumb - thanks02:15
danielslike, it looks valid, and you can't pick it from valid stuff, but it's just complete shit02:15
thomsabdfl: no, it's still going02:16
fabbionedaniels: we don't use dtimings anyway02:16
thomfirefox takes for EVER02:16
sabdfljdub_: that can go in for final, not a new upload now02:16
sabdflthom: where is it building?02:16
danielsfabbione: yes we do02:16
danielsfabbione: some monitors (quite rightly) only return dtimings02:16
thomsabdfl: locally, so i can make sure i got the changes right02:16
jdub_sabdfl: haven't uploaded yet02:16
danielsfabbione: i think that's been in since about xresprobe 0.4.6 or .702:16
fabbionedaniels: that resolution is already whitelisted02:17
danielsgdmthemetester here looks great, and I like the theme (although maybe a bit too much nipple), although xnest has gone totally bongtastic02:17
thomok, bored of firefox now02:19
sabdflthom: *legend*ary02:19
sabdflKamion: many of the mirrors that have been setup are mirrors of the huge full tree02:20
=== silbs [~jane@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== thom wonders if it'd go faster if he got out and pushed
sabdflis there a directory in there which has the same simple structure as the shiny releases dir you setup last night?02:20
jdub_thom: i'll start calling you princess...02:21
Kamionsabdfl: no, was worried about the rsync implications of that02:21
Kamionnot to mention confusion ...02:21
=== sivang [~sivang@CBL217-132-141-251.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdflKamion: could be constructed purely of symblinks?02:22
Kamioncan't we just do README.html as previously discussed?02:22
Kamionthe link structure on little is getting way out of hand already02:22
sivangjdub : you've got my draft for the offline page?02:22
sabdflKamion: this will allow me to link from the download page straight to that directory on the major mirrors02:22
jdub_sivang: yes, mark has checked and updated it02:22
jdub_sivang: thanks02:22
thomextensions/webservices/soap FFS02:22
sabdflit meas that someone doesn't have to find the image in that huge tree02:23
sabdflsymlinks only means rsync implications are tiny02:23
thomi wish SOAP would burn in the utmost fires of hell02:23
Kamionmy head hurts thinking about this02:23
KamionOK, I guess. it's still a totally fucked-up mess now though.02:23
sabdflcould we create it at the very top, next to pool etc?02:23
sivangthom, I am not sure if soap is flameable... :)02:23
Kamionwhat can we call it? releases is taken02:23
sabdflas /releases/02:23
Kamionthat's taken02:24
sabdfli don't see it anywhere on the big mirrors02:24
KamionI'm looking at it right here02:24
Kamionsabdfl: that's the archive, not the cdimage tree02:24
lamontsivang: with sufficient heat, it'll burn. :)02:24
sabdflthat's what some guys are mirroring02:24
sabdfldoes it not include the cdimage tree?02:24
Kamionsabdfl: we can't just force them to grab the cdimages too02:24
Kamionnot all mirrors will have space for that02:25
Kamionno, it doesn't02:25
sabdflfor hoary i figure we want that02:25
sabdflmirrors can be either cdimage or the archive + cdimage02:25
Kamionmirrors have a legitimate need to choose between the archive, cdimages, or both02:25
sabdflfor one or more architectures02:25
Kamionbut they already can02:25
sabdflwell, with --exclude they would still be able to02:25
KamionI don't think it's at all fair to say that mirrors can't mirror just the archive02:26
Kamionthat's an incredibly common use case you're cutting off02:26
sabdflKamion: ok02:26
sabdflbut this means that for release, none of those guys have the cd images02:26
Kamionright, but that's their choice02:26
Kamionif they were interested in that, they'd already be mirroring the preview cdimage, right?02:26
Kamionsince that's pretty easy to mirror on its own02:27
sabdfldo they have the option currently to mirror cdimages and archive in ONE SHOT?02:27
Kamionno, but mirrors don't actually want that AFAICT02:27
sabdfli agree they need the option02:27
sabdflbut I think they want a single line that does what they want02:27
Kamionmost distributions have two separate and distinct trees for cdimage and archive02:27
sabdflthat's all i'm saying02:27
sabdflwe don't want that02:27
sabdfli asked baby je... never mind02:27
KamionI think we need to ask mirror admins before Just Doing it02:27
sabdflwe won't just do it, we'll plan it during the hoary process02:28
Kamionsince a lot of them will have disk space constraints and will be very surprised by it showing up out of the blue :)02:28
sabdflmy bad, i thought we had this already02:28
sabdflwe need a way for them to mirror just releases, cd image, and security updates02:28
sabdflnot the development stuff02:28
sabdflnot the daily cd builds02:28
sabdflnot even the previews02:28
Kamionthat still leaves the question of what to call the version of the simple tree visible on mirrors that already have the full tree02:29
sabdflwe can get together in the hoary process and nail this properly02:29
Kamionthat sounds like an entirely new rsync module02:29
sabdflwell, if they have the full tree by my schema they already HAVE the simple version02:29
Kamioncurrently the full tree has at the top level: code, daily, releases, sounder-test02:30
hornbeckthe new cd is working great for me02:30
=== jdub_ uploads u-a
sabdflas /releases/ with symlinks02:30
fabbionepitti: i am building an xserver for you to test02:30
=== sabdfl apploads jdub
sabdflum applauds, even02:30
=== thom rolls eyes
thomdpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us  1412.10s user 209.07s system 37% cpu 1:12:58.53 total02:30
pittifabbione: oh, nice. Currently I try to find an option combination that works for pc10502:30
pittifabbione: you build for powerpc?02:30
sabdfldoes this still have to build on the buildd's?02:30
fabbionepitti: ah right.. you are on ppc02:31
Kamionthey've got /releases/warty/preview/ at the moment, etc.02:31
fabbionepitti: yes i can do that too02:31
Kamionwhere is alex de landgraaf?02:31
pittifabbione: there's no problem on i386, there I have a proper AltGr key02:31
lamontsabdfl: if he hasn't uploaded source yet, then, um, yes.02:31
sabdflkamion i think we can go for RC with the new artwork but without the new firefox02:31
sabdflthat's just a homepage update02:31
thomsabdfl: yup02:32
sabdflartowrk should build really fast02:32
jdub_i'm about to do ephy too02:32
thombuildds will be much faster tho02:32
thomuploading now02:32
Kamiona live-i386.iso has suddenly appeared in a directory I was using for testing only and was about to blow away, owned by alex02:32
sabdfllamont: please steer jdub's artowrk package through the buildd's and into the archive blitz-vinnig02:32
fabbionepitti: i am going to build on ppc in a few minutes02:32
fabbionepitti: i am uploading the diff.gz02:32
sabdflhe's not on irc02:33
pittifabbione: did you change anything that could help to make the option work on pc105?02:33
sabdflKamion: pause on the blowing away :-)02:33
sabdflthat might just be a godsend... we could get live cd for RC too :-)02:33
fabbionepitti: no, if i don't know exactly what to stick in there02:33
m_tthewgood morning, guys02:33
Kamionsabdfl: it'll predate new artwork of course02:33
m_tthewKamion: when I slept it was RCC3, news ones I should test?02:33
m_tthewnew, even02:34
pittifabbione: I looked in /etc/X11/xkb, but I can't make out how these modifiers are defined and how the keymaps use them02:34
sabdflm_tthew: RC is in process02:34
lamontsabdfl: I can gain it a couple minutes is all.02:34
fabbionepitti: you need to ask Denis02:34
lamontand then only if the build time is >25 min and < 3002:34
fabbionepitti: i really really have issues with XKB02:34
sivangjdub_ : nice, this already existing? does it plugin to GAIM ?02:34
sabdfllamont: please keep me posted if it bottlenecks anywhere02:34
pittifabbione: Denis? any mail address? or IRC?02:35
jdub_sivang: no, that's a mockup02:35
lamontwe'll do02:35
sabdfllamont, jdub_, it shoudl build even faster than that, it's just artwork for _all02:35
lamontjdub: did you happen to upload it before :30?02:35
fabbionelamont: can i use adare?02:35
jdub_lamont: haven't uploaded ephy yet02:35
fabbionelamont: or it is going to be hitten hard?02:35
sabdfl(13:30:03) ***jdub_ uploads u-a02:35
lamontuploads that happen before :30 or :00 start building shortly after :33 or :0302:35
jdub_just about to submit u-a to the queue02:35
Kamionsabdfl: oh yeah, it's cool to have it, I just want to know exactly what it is :)02:35
elmolamont: don't worry about that, I'll be byhanding stuff02:35
lamontelmo: awesome.02:36
sabdfltrojan horse from the dutch02:36
lamontsabdfl: elmo, OTOH, can make :[03] 0 happen faster...02:36
jdub_sabdfl: heh, from here "upload" and "submit to queue" are very separate processes ;)02:36
Kamionplus, somebody needs to test it02:36
jdub_u-a submitted02:36
sabdflelmo: can you steer the new artwork package through the archive process fast as lightning please?02:36
lamontelmo: tell me when it's in src, and I'll kick a buildd or 3...02:37
=== thom radiates hate at firefox
danielsjennifer /org/archive.w.h.c/queue/unchecked/*.changes && kelly /org/archive.w.h.c/queue/accepted/*.changes02:37
elmodaniels: err, no02:37
danielsor whatever it is02:37
danielsor just run the cron scripts by hand02:37
danielsor do other stuff02:38
elmosabdfl: yes, am doing02:38
danielseither way02:38
jdub_ephy ready to submit to queue02:38
thom(the make leaves symlinks spattered over the tree that they don't clean up)02:38
thom(which of course breaks dpkg-source)02:38
elmolamont: kick i386?02:39
thomfirefox is in the queue02:40
Kamionam I waiting for firefox?02:41
jdub_ephy submitted02:42
elmolamont: mozilla-firefox available to the buildds02:43
KamionAlex's new live CD is at http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/releases/warty/rcc3/live-i386.iso; testing appreciated02:45
lamontroyal, crested, terranova02:45
elmolamont: and epiphany now too02:46
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdub_gdmflexiserver --monte-carlo-pi02:46
KamionI'm getting a three-hour ETA on the live CD; unless anyone can get it faster than I can, I'd suggest we might want to publish it slightly after the rest of the RC02:47
KamionI'm not comfortable with releasing something we haven't tested02:47
jdub_Kamion: that's via rsync?02:48
Kamionjdub_: I don't have a useful base to start from02:48
=== lamont finally has the last of the bits he needs to do a local (to the DC) build of a LiveCD, now that alex is done uploding...
Kamionjdub_: this is from scratch02:48
fabbionedaniels: 099l does NOT build02:48
jdub_i'll try pulling via rsync02:49
Kamionlamont: hooray02:49
lamontKamion: once I get a good build of a LiveCD, then I need to see what other non-DC bits it's dependant on, and address that..02:49
lamont_then_ we'll have a LiveCD that I'm comfortable with.02:50
pittifabbione: success!02:50
fabbionepitti: ???02:50
pittifabbione: lv3:lwin_switch works for pc10502:50
=== Kamion goes for a much-needed shower; I should be back by the time builds are ready for kicking off CD builds
lamontmeanwhile, I think I'm gonna go torture my buddy in a couple hours... 75 hr eta on RCC1 download. :-(02:51
fabbionepitti: ok!02:51
danielsfabbione: ?!?02:51
pitticarlos: here?02:51
danielsfabbione: oh02:51
carlospitti: hi02:51
danielsfabbione: yeah, s/VEROBSITY/VERBOSITY/02:51
m_tthewlamont: at least now you should be able to get coffee02:51
danielsfabbione: forgot to scp the updated version to rookery, sorry02:51
pitticarlos: regarding #2327 (macintosh vs. pc105 war)02:51
pitticarlos: can you please try whether XkbOptions 'lv3:lwin_switch' does any harm to you?02:52
lamontm_tthew: don't drink the stuff...  Leads to discussions with the coffee shop owner, of course...02:52
pittifabbione: I let carlos check that it does not break anything02:52
lamontsince I don't buy any high-margin items.02:52
pitticarlos: I need it to have kind of an AltGr key (The apple key in this case)02:52
lamontbut he only has 256kbps, buddy has 1.5Mbps atm, or so02:52
carlospitti: with macintosh or pc105?02:52
lamontENOSHARING :-)02:52
pitticarlos: pc10502:53
pitticarlos: fabbione changed the default to pc105, which broke my clever xmodmap call02:53
pitticarlos: and I currently try to get a working solution for pc10502:53
pitticarlos: above option works fine for me02:53
carlospitti: well, my request was only for Spanish keyboards02:53
pitticarlos: nevertheless it would be nice if you could test02:53
pitticarlos: does the Apple key currently do anything useful for you?02:54
carloslet me boot the imac, I cannot reboot the powerbook at this moment02:54
carlosnot really02:54
pitticarlos: I don't have an AltGr (as you have), so I need the Apple key for AltGr02:54
carlospitti: did you tested Fn + Alt as AltGR?02:54
pitticarlos: I think yes, lemme try...02:54
pitticarlos: it works for some keys like ~, but not for []   {}02:56
carlospitti: which keymap do you have with xev?02:56
pitticarlos: you mean keycode?02:57
=== tof_- [~tof@blueice3n1.uk.ibm.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
carlospitti: xev says the symbol a key has02:58
carlosit should say AltGr 02:58
pitticarlos: I don't have AltGr02:58
sabdflKamion: not waiting for firefox02:59
sabdflKamion: agreed, we can publish the livecd a bit later02:59
fabbionepitti: so i can just set lv3 instead of the other02:59
fabbionewell yeah03:00
pittifabbione: yes03:00
pittifabbione: works for me, but let carlos test this, too03:00
sabdfljdub_: does X come up with the new background colour instead of black?03:00
pitticarlos: Apple is "Super_L" in xev without any XkbOptions03:00
jdub_sabdfl: hrm, don't think that went in03:00
jdub_daniels: was that in the latest X update?03:01
fabbionejdub_: no03:01
=== plovs_work [~plovs@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionethere is nothing in the changelog for that03:01
fabbionejdub_: what is all about?03:01
carlospitti: with that, I get the AltGr also in the Apple key03:01
pitticarlos: exactly this was the intended change03:01
sabdflfabbione: can you make sure that x is starting with a colour other than black?03:02
sabdflfor the final03:02
jdub_fabbione: daniel was going to change the stipple to a flat colour (same as the desktop default colour, or grey)03:02
pitticarlos: because the iBook does not have AltGr03:02
sabdflthe colour should be the same as the gdm background colour03:02
pitticarlos: I asked you to test it because you could have used the Apple key for sth different03:02
fabbionesabdfl: i think so... 03:02
pitticarlos: so does it break anything?03:02
jdub_sabdfl: which is now the desktop background colour03:02
carlospitti: neither my Powerbook or imac keyb, but I have a right Alt that is a AltGr key03:02
fabbionedaniels: do you have a patch for that?03:02
carlosso now I have three AltGr keys03:02
carlospitti: no, it does not breaks anything as far as I know03:03
pitticarlos: so would it be okay for you to have the option as default?03:03
pitticarlos: great!03:03
sabdflKamion: we still ok for a UTC 15:00 release?03:03
pittifabbione: it does not break for carlos, too03:03
carlospitti: well, perhaps it's better if the pc105 change is done only for Spanish keymaps...03:03
fabbionepitti:     MACOPTS="lv3:lwin_switch"03:03
fabbionepitti: is that final?03:03
pitticarlos: No, I don't think so. It is better for me, too, and many other users need it also03:03
Kamionsabdfl: oh, UTC, phew, not UK time03:03
carlosso you don't need to do those things, because perhaps the de keyboard and es one are fixed but we could break other ones03:03
pittifabbione: works for me and carlos, for pc105 and macintosh03:03
carlospitti: ok03:03
Kamionsabdfl: should be OK as long as all the builds arrive03:04
fabbioneKamion: you still have a ppc, right?03:04
pittifabbione: so that should be fine03:04
carlospitti: for pc105, macintosh is not tested here03:04
Kamionfabbione: yes, typing on one now03:04
Kamionfabbione: but I cannot give you testing love just at the moment03:04
fabbioneKamion: ok03:04
fabbioneKamion: no rush03:04
fabbioneelmo is on ppc ;)03:04
pittiKamion: do you need the Apple key for anything particular?03:05
pittiKamion: because I propose to make it equivalent to the AltGr key (I don't have the latter)03:05
Kamionpitti: uh, yes, it's my meta key03:05
pittiKamion: we must not do this by default if Apple is used for something03:05
sabdfljdub_: #4e3e29 i think03:05
sabdflis the colour to be used for "No wallpaper", in the email i sent you03:06
KamionOption is Alt_L, Apple key is Meta_L03:06
pittiKamion: what's a Meta key? I need the key for typing @ []  {} and so on03:06
jdub_sabdfl: see latest gdm upload03:06
pittiKamion: do you have AltGr?03:06
sabdfljdub_: in the archive?03:06
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionpitti: no, I don't have AltGr, unless it's Fn+Alt03:07
jdub_sabdfl: on its way in; it just sets the gdm background to the desktop default background03:07
pittiKamion: Fn+Alt only works partly for me03:07
Kamionpitti: maybe it should be made to work fully :)03:07
Kamionpitti: stealing Apple scares the hell out of me03:07
pittiKamion: since I need an AltGr/Super_L/whatever key to get []  {} @03:07
sabdflhmm... jdub_ the gdm login screen has a different background colour, much lighter than the desktop03:07
elmogdm and ephy built for all arches03:08
=== fabbione fetches popcorn and watches a movie about ppc users killing each others about keybaord layout
elmojust waiting on moz-ff for powerpc/amd64 now03:08
sabdflpitti: let's not make any rushed decisions now03:08
Kamionpitti: just saying not to do it without *extensive* testing, that's all, I don't really have brain-space to think about it just now03:08
sabdflelmo: is artwork done?03:08
elmosabdfl: yeah03:08
pittiWhy those Apple bastards just forgot to give me an AltGr key???03:08
Kamionubuntu-artwork |   0.2.11-1 |         warty | all, source03:08
danielsjdub_: no, I never got a colour code03:08
Kamionthat right?03:08
sabdflpitti: let's figure this out tomorrow, after a good nights rest03:08
danielsfabbione: i don't have a patch, but I can make one03:09
jdub_sabdfl: yeah. i think the X background should be grey or something neutral, because the gdm and desktop will change.03:09
pittifabbione: Seems that the change should be postponed03:09
sabdflfinal changes in this week so it can bake over the weekend03:09
danielsif you want to risk an X build ...03:09
Kamionmozilla-firefox | 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu2 |         warty | amd64, powerpc03:09
Kamionmozilla-firefox | 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu3 |         warty | i386, source03:09
sabdfljdub_: trying to avoid three changes03:09
pittisabdfl: okay, if anybody uses the Apple key, we should not change the default03:09
jdub_sabdfl: and the gdm background should probably be the same.03:09
Kamionsabdfl: um, sorry, have to wait for the other firefox builds now, can't release with it inconsistent03:09
thomKamion: ubuntu3 is what you want, indeed03:09
jdub_sabdfl: let's change X and gdm.03:09
sabdflX background should be the same as gdm03:09
pittisabdfl: at least I now know how to fix it easily if users ask :-)03:09
elmoamd64 is almost finished03:09
danielssabdfl: are we talking post-RC here?03:10
fabbionedaniels: just tell me where that stuff is.. i can patch and test it03:10
danielssabdfl: or nownownow?03:10
sabdfljdub_: i'd like the gdb login screen to look exactly as it does with the fixed image currently03:10
sabdfljust using components to place the pieces more approrpriately for widescreen etc03:10
Kamionpitti: FWIW, I use my Meta key for keyboard shortcuts like Meta-F1 to launch a terminal; it tends to collide with fewer things than Alt-F1 would03:10
sabdflthat would be gdm03:10
sabdfldaniels: post-rc03:10
thomelmo: you think firefox is finished, and then it builds a gazillion extensions...03:10
jdub_sabdfl: the 'background colour' used by gdm is independent of the gdmgreeter theme03:10
elmothom: nah, I could tell it was doing make install :)03:11
sabdfloh right it;s the colour underneath gnomesplash03:11
jdub_i'll explain:03:11
elmoamd64's built...03:11
pittiKamion: we should leave it as it currently is; at least I know what to tell users who have this problem :-)03:11
jdub_- X starts with stipple (i suggest neutral grey)03:11
pittiKamion, carlos: Thanks for testing! Hoary item.03:11
jdub_- gdm starts with BackgroundColor setting in gdm.conf03:11
sabdfljdub_: this is where i want the gdmgreeter colour03:11
Kamionpitti: ok, sorry I don't mean to scupper l10n or anything, just saying people do use the Meta key03:11
carlospitti: ok03:12
jdub_- if using gdmlogin, that's the background colour03:12
fabbionepitti: ok.. so we are going pc105 and no options, ok????03:12
sabdflso you go from text, to a colour, then the gdm picture elements appear03:12
Kamionpitti: it could be changed only for layouts where AltGr's needed03:12
pittifabbione: just as we have now, yes03:12
jdub_- if using gdmgreeter, the backgroundColor doesn't matter -> you're using a theme03:12
lamontamd64 moz build is cleaning up03:12
lamont(successful, of course)03:12
sabdfljdub_: we are using the theme by default, right?03:12
pittiKamion: difficult to detect, I think03:12
thomppc doesn't have much longer i think03:12
sabdflthere is a colour display before the theme kicks03:12
danielsfabbione: xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/dix/window.c, MakeRootTile()03:12
Kamionpitti: detect? you'd just hardcode in the keyboard layouts :-)03:12
carlosKamion: the funny thing is that the spanish keymap has the AltGR key with Fn+Alt03:12
sabdflthat colour should match the default theme03:12
jdub_- once you finish the login process, the gdm background colour now appears with the splash, etc.03:13
sabdflfabbione: pitti: please DO NOT make big changes now03:13
jdub_- when the user's own background setting is loaded, it changes to their background03:13
sabdfllet's deal with those tomorrow03:13
pittisabdfl: we already canceled it :-)03:13
danielsfabbione: you want to fill back with pixels of a certain colour, which is the gdm colour03:13
rburtonseb128: i'm still seeing gconf notification disconnection -- is this known?03:13
danielsfabbione: i can take care of it when I wake up if you like -- I'm just falling asleep in my chair here03:13
=== pitti is happy that his iBook works again now :-)
jdub_to avoid excessive colour changes, i suggest using the same (neutral) colour to replace the X stipple and the gdm BackgroundColor03:14
seb128rburton: with what ?03:14
jdub_though that might be different from the gdmgreeter theme (which will change anyway)03:14
sabdfljdub_: yes, and that colour should be the same as the basic colour of the default gdm theme we ship03:14
sabdflwith the three people03:14
jdubsabdfl: that's going to change, though.03:14
jdubwhen either a) we have a new release or b) when the user changes it03:15
sabdfljdub: if the user has changed it, then golden rule applies03:15
sabdflotherwise, when we update the theme for next release, we pick colours accordingly03:15
jdubalso, we should take into account the pre-X startup process03:15
jdubsabdfl: they will never be able to choose the X stipple replacement colour03:15
seb128rburton: where do you get the problem ?03:16
sabdflby default we set it to match our current defaults03:16
sabdflif it's a real issue we can improve that part of X03:16
=== jdub thinks apple had the right idea here
fabbionedaniels: ok. i can wait for the patch tomorrow03:17
elmoamd64 installed03:17
jdubso by default, there would be one flat colour from X startup through to gdm theme (which would be more detailed, but same basic colour), then back to flat background until the desktop loads03:17
sabdflelmo: of firefox?03:17
elmopowerpc's still building03:17
sabdfldo we have artwork on all three?03:17
Kamionartwork's arch: all03:18
sabdflmorning mdz03:18
mdzinvoluntary nap extension03:18
elmosabdfl: yes03:18
sabdflmdz: deserved, you haven't missed the release03:18
lamontmozilla-firefox:        00:53:44 (6 entries, sigma 00:43:59)03:18
lamontthat'd be ppc, btw03:18
lamontamd64,i386 installed03:19
lamont"and elmo saw that it was good, and He called it a day"03:19
thomreboot, brb03:20
lamontppc should be uploading sometime between :35 and :15 or so.. :-(03:20
lamontfabbione: that was just a hint, I don't _know_ that elmo has declared the beginning of a new day :-)03:20
sabdflKamion: so we should be good for RC then, with new artwork03:21
Kamionsabdfl: we have to wait for mozilla-firefox/powerpc now unfortunately, since the other two arches have it03:21
lamontKamion: how long does the mastering take?03:21
lamontISTR < 10 minutes to be sure.03:22
jdubsupposedly my livecd download will be another 40min03:22
Kamionlamont: about 20 minutes03:22
Kamionlamont: jigdo has extended it; it's excessively difficult to run it later having disabled that, though03:22
Kamion(and my bug reports testify that we have people using jigdo already)03:23
danielsfabbione: k03:23
mdzwhat's happening with firefox?03:24
sabdflcan i do the usual livecd rsync03:24
lamontKamion: then it sounds like we could build i386 and amd64 while we wait for ppc, yes?03:24
sabdflmdz: updates to local homepage03:24
jdubnow i've got 1:15 to wait for the live cd...03:24
mdzwe have a new live cd?03:25
sabdflmdz: want to crash again, i can call you when we are ready to go03:25
Kamionlamont: theoretically, but I'd really rather keep the build process as standard as possiblee03:25
lamontah, true03:25
Kamionlamont: now is not the time for human-error-induced screwups03:25
sabdflagreed Kamion03:25
Kamionmdz: alex silently dropped one into a directory I was using for testing and was about to blow away03:25
elmoKamion: if not now, when??03:25
elmooh, wait, that's what final is for.. I forgot03:25
sabdflelmo: soon, soon :-)03:25
mdzKamion: er, great03:25
Kamionelmo: I agree it'd be traditional :)03:25
mdzand he isn't here to coordinate the release03:26
lamontonce the RC testing is done and dealt with, interested parties are directed to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty.iso, which should (in theory) be a liveCD built in the DC...03:26
Kamionmdz: I mailed him asking him to show up on IRC so we could interrogate him about what the image actually was :)03:26
lamontbut use a CD-RW - the last one was coaster-quality.03:26
Kamionmdz: http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/releases/warty/rcc3/live-i386.iso03:26
Kamion(for now)03:26
sabdflKamion: is that rsyncable?03:26
Kamionsabdfl: yes, in the usual way for cdimage.u.o03:26
mdzETA 40 minutes03:27
jdubjust s/http/rsync/ and add cdimage/ before releases03:27
mdzrsync won't really help, in terms of saving bits to download, though03:27
m_tthewI am burning that image now, can report shortly.03:27
mdzthe live CD is one big compressed blob03:27
m_tthewmdz: it helped some for me download03:27
=== m_tthew sighs, 'my'
lamontthe diff between my two livecd images was only 487MB. :-(03:28
jdubm_tthew: it's not talklikeapirateday ;)03:28
elmoI think ppc is in the install phase now03:28
lamontelmo: yep03:28
lamontabout 50 kb of log left to generate03:29
lamontdupload successfu03:30
elmocron.daily's running now03:30
lamontah, the joy of the tag-team bitch-slap build dance03:31
=== alextreme [wadlandg@kits.cs.vu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionhi alex, thanks for coming03:31
Kamionalextreme: do I gather correctly that /releases/warty/rcc3/live-i386.iso is the new live CD you've produced?03:31
elmoUpdating master mirrors...03:32
alextremeyup, sorry for throwing it in there, thought it was set up for the RC03:32
elmoDaily cron scripts successful.03:32
Kamionalextreme: no problem, I was just a little surprised because I was about to go and blow that directory away and then spotted your image :)03:32
alextremeit's also on chinstrap, so it wouldn't have been much of an issue :)03:32
Kamionalextreme: OK, so roughly when was that built?03:32
alextremeKamion: yesterday evening03:32
Kamionjust so we know which of the last-minute fixes it has03:33
mdzso, none of them :-)03:33
lamontif my build works, then it has everything before the ubuntu-artwork change of jdubs03:33
Kamionok, that may be fine for the live CD of course03:33
elmoand we're all done03:33
Kamionepiphany-browser | 1.4.4-0ubuntu2 |         warty | amd64, i386, powerpc, source03:33
Kamion       gdm | |         warty | amd64, i386, powerpc, source03:34
mdzalextreme: lamont has produced a live CD using the automated process, but it apparently didn't function03:34
Kamionmozilla-firefox | 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu3 |         warty | amd64, i386, powerpc, source03:34
Kamionubuntu-artwork |   0.2.11-1 |         warty | all, source03:34
Kamiongood to go?03:34
alextrememdz: any clues on what went wrong?03:34
mdzlamont: ?03:34
=== Kamion starts the CD builds
fabbioneGO KAMION GO!03:35
lamont<lamont> once the RC testing is done and dealt with, interested parties are directed to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty.iso, which should (in theory) be a liveCD built in the DC...03:35
Kamionalextreme: OK, I think our plan for now is to publish the RC first with the install CD only (since it's in about an hour and a half), but to add the live CD later today once a few people have had time to test it03:35
alextremeKamion: sounds good03:36
lamontalextreme: that was the one without the local warthog packages.03:36
alextremelamont: cool, i'll give it a spin lateron03:36
alextremeahh, then it probably wouldn't init properly03:36
lamontthe new one as of this morning (and hence with almost all the fixes), is the one above.03:36
m_tthewalextreme: re, lamont's previous livecd build: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/tmp/warty-livecd-2004-10-11-lamont1.png03:36
mdzlamontt: you'll need to build another one anyway, no?03:37
lamontalextreme: failed to mount root03:37
lamontm_tthew: thanks03:37
m_tthewalextreme: I am too follish to figure out how to make the livecd's grub talk to serial03:37
lamontbtw, cool data transfer technique. :-)03:37
m_tthewlamont: np03:37
sabdfllamont: which is that?03:37
lamontI found it, resourceful.03:37
alextremem_tthew: hehehe03:37
lamontsabdfl: he took a pic of the display.03:37
lamontthat or he's a _GOD_ with gimp.03:38
mdzseb128: why a new totem and gnome-applets at the last minute?03:38
m_tthewheh, moreso the former.03:38
sabdflwho? which?03:38
sabdflfor what?03:38
Kamion14:37 < m_tthew> alextreme: re, lamont's previous livecd build: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/tmp/warty-livecd-2004-10-11-lamont1.png03:38
seb128mdz: the new totem has only 1 change, a crasher fix with the "play CD" entry03:38
=== sabdfl must not have slept as well as planned
rburtonjdub: so my co-worker who is also running ubuntu just said "hmmmm breasts"03:38
rburtoni'm tempted to logout myself03:39
lamontsabdfl: history: lamont builds a liveCD coaster, m_tthew tests, takes pic, lamont talks to alex, builds another.03:39
seb128mdz: and the gnome-applets to fix a bug reported by pitti this morning (weather locations broken)03:39
jdubrburton: i have already heard "wanking warthog"03:39
Kamionjdub: doesn't seem like ideal PR03:39
seb128mdz: the gnome-applets was a typo fix in an xml file03:39
alextremelamont: sounds like sound QA ;)03:39
carlosjdub: are the icon theme finished?03:39
sabdfljdub: where you get your warts is your own business03:39
lamontalextreme: yep03:39
jdubcarlos: nah, not ready for release unfortunately03:39
jdubcarlos: you can try the icon theme though03:40
jdubsabdfl: haw haw ;)03:40
jdubKamion: so i used to work in a cookery book shop03:40
=== Kamion ponders deferring showing Ubuntu to his parents
lamontus prudish US types will have challenges with some of the artwork..03:40
sabdflguys, when it comes to PR, the important this is that they spell our name right03:40
alextremeKamion: so there have been a few fixes this morning? could rebuild and reupload this evening03:40
sabdflnot ubunto03:40
carlosjdub: ok, It's just I have the WebDAV icon with the gorilla one instead of ubuntu, if it's not finished I will not report it as a bug :-)03:40
sabdflor obonto03:40
rburtonthat is the luckiest ubuntu logo in the world03:40
jdubKamion: only specialist in .au (which has a huge market here) big mail order business03:40
Kamionalextreme: right; are you subscribed to warty-changes?03:40
=== alextreme saw obuntoo somewhere
=== lamont also rebuilds
alextremeKamion: nope03:41
jdubcarlos: that's a bug in the current icons them03:41
jdubcarlos: please report03:41
Kamionalextreme: it's on lists.ubuntu.com, might be useful for you03:41
jdubKamion: there's a book called "the cake bible"03:41
mdzseb128: we should not make any changes at this point unless they are critical for the release candidate03:41
Kamionwell, the racier the artwork is the fewer people I'll be willing to show it to *shrug*03:41
carlosjdub: but does it exists with ubuntu?03:41
jdubKamion: numerous times it was returned from customs in saudi arabia, etc. :-)03:41
alextremeKamion: i'll put the archive in my bookmarks, but am on too many lists already :)03:41
mdzKamion, lamont: you guys do realize that it isn't shown by default?03:41
jdubcarlos: the default icon theme atm is the gnome one03:41
sabdflKamion: the default is not racy03:41
seb128mdz: the crasher was pretty bad, and the second was a typo a << instead of < broken the xml file ... 03:41
jdubcarlos: so if you see problems with it, please report them03:41
lamontalextreme: want me to send you the log from my build so you can see if there's anything obviously coaster-producing in it?03:42
lamontmdz: understood03:42
tsengi dont find any of those to be "racy".03:42
alextremelamont: yes, please03:42
carlosjdub: sorry, it's the gnome one, not gorilla 03:42
lamontalextreme: as soon as it finishes..03:42
jdubsabdfl: i may need to expense a cricket bat. need one to teach lifeless to pronounce ubuntu correctly.03:42
seb128mdz: BTW I've a fix for data corruption happening sometime with ftp transferts (and possible http) in nautilus ready to upload if we still have time03:42
Kamionmdz: I thought several people were commenting on the images other than the wallpaper03:42
mdzseb128: please wait until after the candidate is out03:42
sabdflerm... line him up for cloning first, would ya?03:42
Kamionjdub: teach him to pronounce Debian while you're at it :)03:42
seb128mdz: ok03:42
mdzKamion: oh, haven't seen the gdm stuff yet03:43
sabdfland, erh arch03:43
jdub02:47  * dalderman loves the nipples on gdm now :-)03:43
mdzoh, yes I have03:43
mdzit's not racy03:43
jdubKamion: he uses his heritage as an excuse for pronouncing everything incorrectly. gotta beat the sheep out of him.03:43
jdubmdz: not racy, but it must be a bit chilly.03:43
sabdfljust don't accidentally beat him into the sheep03:43
sabdflno, that was just me taking the photo03:43
Keybukjdub: give daniels a beating for mis-pronouncing route while you're at it :)03:43
jdubsabdfl: he's a bit of a dag already. :)03:44
Kamionsabdfl: I was trying to come up with a similar pun but decided against it :)03:44
=== Kamion couldn't figure out how to change the gnome-session splash earlier
KamionI think I concluded that isn't possible03:44
lamontis there a pic of the gdm screen anywhere?03:45
jdubKamion: gconf-editor03:45
Kamionjdub: ah, ok03:45
sabdflKamion: we should try to make that themable for hoary03:45
sabdfljdub: could that be part of a theme?03:45
=== dalderman [~dan@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdubit's changeable, but it so doesn't need to be themeable ;)03:45
jdubthat said, it could be defined as part of a metatheme03:45
sabdfli guess we do need to be able to remove the people from the theme altogether for some users03:46
jdub(btw, i left the just-logo splash on the disk, so admins can switch to that instead)03:46
jdubjust a matter of a gconf default change03:46
sabdflwhich is the "login in a new window" package?03:46
jdubsabdfl: it's part of gdm, but you need to install xnest to see the menu entry03:47
rburtonjdub: how about a version of the splash without the ubuntu logo? ;)03:47
Kamionhm, didn't seem to work, I wonder if I changed the right key03:47
daldermanjdub: yeah, the logo is in the wrong place03:47
jdubrburton: it offends you more than erect nipples?03:47
jdubhaw haw03:47
jdubvery funny03:47
=== jdub hoses down rburton and dalderman
sabdflKamion: you don't like it that much?03:48
rburtoni'm just being bawdy03:48
daldermanwe have no women in our office at the moment :-(03:48
daldermanfar too much testosterone in here03:48
Kamionsabdfl: just anticipating raised eyebrows from family03:48
Kamionit's suggestive rather than there actually being anything wrong with it03:48
jdubsabdfl: already have two people asking how to switch the logo for their rollouts.03:48
Kamionhm, is it not /apps/gnome-session/options/splash_image then?03:49
rburtonfor $MEGACORP its a little suggestive03:49
rburtonput them in suits?03:49
tsenggetsweaaa.com/~tseng/new-gdm.png for whoever asked03:49
jdubKamion: that's it03:49
daldermanmost corporate places are full of short fat hairy people, it's just going to make them feel inadequate :-)03:49
Kamionjdub: uh, ok, it would help if I weren't a moron03:50
Kamion(yes, works)03:51
=== Kamion raises an eyebrow at the jigdo-file assertion failure in the powerpc CD build logs.
sabdflso what is the alternative image?03:52
Kamionthe one we had up to yesterday's still installed and available, it seems03:52
mdzKamion: are you sure you can't turn that off without risking the stability of the rest of the process?03:52
daldermanI can arrange a nice half nakes one of rburton if you like :-)03:52
Kamionmdz: I can, but I am not convinced I can reliably generate the .jigdo and .templates files later03:52
Kamionfor ten minutes I don't think it's worth the complexity of trying to work that out03:53
lamontso is the male model that much taller than the other two, or am I just misinterpreting the picture?03:53
mdzI don't mind if we don't have .jigdo for the release candidate03:53
Kamiontoo late :-)03:53
sabdfllamont: try the calendar desktop :-)03:54
lamontsabdfl: I'm still _downloading_ stuff..03:54
=== jdub just went through the entire default boot process.
sabdfljdub: how's it look?03:54
jdububuntu is so much pr0n.03:54
KamionCDs up03:55
rburtonjdub: i still get hangs on shutdown...03:55
sabdflcan i update the web site?03:55
lamontalthough I'mstarting to question the term "release candidate"... :-)03:55
mdzwe should, er, test the images first :-)03:55
Kamionsabdfl: they're only in /daily/current as yet03:55
Kamiongive us an hour to hammer them :)03:55
rburtonjdub: COCKFOSTERS03:55
sabdflpants off, hammer them. uh. jdub, don't do that.03:56
lamontit would be good for corporate america to have the defaults not include any significantly suggestive photos...03:56
jdubalready there.03:56
jdubi just booted, remember.03:56
mdzlamont: can we get a live CD build which is in sync with the latest rcc?03:56
lamontmdz: it's building, hopefully will boot..03:56
mdzrsyncing daily/current03:57
mdzhmm, apparently carlos decided today would be a good day to start testing ubuntu :-)03:57
fabbionemdz: ahahhahaha03:58
fabbionemdz: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/boom03:58
mdzfabbione: ???03:58
carlosmdz: well, I'm testing it since long ago, but I had some bug reports in my queue O:-)03:58
rburtoni wonder how long after release it will be for someone to make a pr0n version of the human theme?03:59
fabbioneboom = X changelog for ubuntu2503:59
pittifabbione: first and second + are duplicates :-)04:00
carlosrburton: a friend asked me if it will be more pr0n with every month update :-P04:00
fabbionepitti: ops04:00
pittifabbione: not really RC, though :-)04:01
mdzfabbione: we are only fixing RC bugs right now04:01
fabbionemdz: the frequency stuff is RC04:02
thommdz: would you hurt me significantly if i fix the mono stuffs to build on amd64 at some point in the next week?04:02
fabbionemdz: the XKB stuff too04:02
fabbionemdz: every fix for the XKB = a slightly longer life for me04:02
mdzthom: of course not, right after the RC bugs are closed04:02
mdzfabbione: the last XKB changes imported from Debian broke things04:03
fabbionemdz: the rest is documentation and absolutely non introsive changes04:03
mdzwe should not be making these changes now04:03
fabbionemdz: there was only one regression and apparently the fix is clear04:03
thommdz: that was kinda what i meant, yes04:04
fabbionemdz: 2288 is the "regression" and we can argue forever if it is a X problem or a gnome problem04:05
mdz2288 is not an RC bug04:05
lamontalextreme: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveCD.out.gz04:05
=== lamont has freshened his liveCD image
alextremelamont: ta04:05
fabbionemdz: only because it has been opened as normal04:06
mdzfabbione: I am looking at the bug and it is not RC04:06
alextremelamont: crap, forgot to include the makedev dependancy04:06
lamontso it's a coaster?04:07
lamontwhat do I change where?04:07
alextremei'll go poke around some more, bound to be more issues04:07
alextremelemme check...04:07
fabbionemdz: ok.. whatever you think it's fine for me, but seriously.. we will get a hell load of reports for that04:08
fabbionemdz: no more than what we got in debian04:08
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
alextremelamont: apt-get install makedev on the buildmachine as a workaround, will fix cvs now and make a new package later on04:09
thommdz: heh, just got a mid-air collision with you on the homepage bug 04:09
mdzfabbione: I know that you want it to be perfect, but it cannot be. at some point we must leave it alone because we have a release to make04:10
lamontalextreme: ah, so it just needs to be there on the building machine?04:11
alextremelamont: should do the trick04:11
alextremelamont: Failed to fetch file:/local/warthog/./Packages.gz  File not found04:11
thommdz: can i help test your portmap fixes?04:12
mdzthom: absolutely04:12
mdzthom: there's a debdiff attached to #50504:12
lamontalextreme: does it not like file: urls?04:12
thomah, cool04:12
fabbionemdz: Denis work on XKB is the ONLY good source for fixes in that mess. I know we have a release to make. I also have a responsability towards our users to give them the best. sorry if it sounds retoric (yeah itaglish) but that's the only reason why i push so much on X04:12
alextremelamont: guess not, probably due to it apt-getting in the chroot04:13
=== T-Bone [~varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontthat'd do it.04:13
lamontanything about those 3 packages that makes them not want to be world-fetchable?04:13
=== lamont pushes /local/warthog to p.u.c/~lamont/LiveCD
lamontor some such04:13
fabbionemdz: which changes do you want me to revert?04:14
mdzfabbione: let's look at it together tomorrow, after the RC is out04:14
fabbionemdz: ok04:15
fabbionemdz: tomorrow i will be 99% moving to the secondary office04:15
fabbioneso i expect to be up and running again around 8 UTC04:15
mdzfabbione: I do not consider X to have any showstopper bugs at this time04:15
alextremelamont: not really, mostly use my local webserver when building and only upload stuff that actually works ;)04:15
fabbionemdz: the frequency thing is the reason why some people were getting a 640x480 screen and they couldn't go out of it04:16
fabbionemdz: it's a 3 lines diff -u04:16
thomfirst complaint on the users list04:16
thomabout the theme04:16
alextremelamont: something odd is happening right at the end, deb-get downloads the udebs but they don't seem to be extracted04:16
mdzthom: militant?04:16
thommdz: "conservative and uncomfortable"04:17
alextremelamont: it's a messy script, but running those commands again should give a clue what's happening04:18
Kamionwe did get an unexpectedly large number of compliments about the old theme04:18
=== lamont has the script running with a valid URL for the local stuff, and makedev installed.
mdzthe delta on the current daily is huge04:19
mdzonly just got amd64 down04:19
alextremelamont: cd /tmp/libmorphix-u2uloT && /usr/bin/deb-get grub-gfxboot-iso-udeb04:19
alextremelamont: the udeb is being downloaded, but doesn't seem to appear in the build directory04:20
lamontalextreme: it says "Can't open configuration file04:20
alextremelamont: /usr/bin/deb-get -r http://www.morphix.org/debian/udeb04:20
thommdz: good grief, does that mean i beat you? :-)04:20
Kamionwhoa, you're using udebs?04:21
alextremeKamion: don't worry, they won't clash :)04:21
Kamionok :)04:21
mdzi386 was way faster04:21
mdzthat is not very encouraging04:21
Kamion@ERROR: Unknown module 'cdimage'04:22
Kamionaargh. thom/elmo!04:22
Kamionarchive.ubuntulinux.org apparently round-robins to the machine that's serving releases.u.c04:22
Kamionwhich does not know about the 'ubuntu' and 'cdimage' modules04:22
=== Kamion switches to cdimage.u.o in order to get vaguely predictable results; archive.u.o is useless for rsync currently
m_tthewalextreme: this is all deprecated by the new livecd underway, but: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/ubuntu/warty/livecd/04:24
m_tthewalextreme: dmesg, lsmod, and lspci output -- I had no mouse (I use a USB logitech)04:24
lamontm_tthew: the last coaster was short a few device files... :-(04:25
elmoKamion: uh04:25
alextremem_tthew: was this from the RC version, or from the one from last week?04:25
elmowe've been pointing people at rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ ??04:25
m_tthewlamont: d'oh04:25
=== fabbione enjoys the monthly desktop background!
Kamion<cjwatson@cairhien ~/ubuntu/cdimage>$ rsync archive.ubuntulinux.org::04:25
Kamionreleases        Ubuntu Release CD Images04:25
Kamion<cjwatson@cairhien ~/ubuntu/cdimage>$ rsync archive.ubuntulinux.org::04:25
Kamionubuntu          Ubuntu Archive04:25
Kamioncdimage         Ubuntu CD Images04:25
lamontm_tthew: and was it from me, or the one alex uploaded?04:25
elmoyeah, I know04:25
Kamionelmo: that's been in sounder release announcements since ages04:25
m_tthewalextreme: this is from your build of .. yesterday morning I believe you said? The one Kamion moved out of rc3/04:25
Kamionelmo: even discounting cdimage rsyncers, aren't regular archive mirrors using archive.u.o?04:26
Kamionit'll fail half the time for them, too04:26
elmowhy did we set up cdimage.u.c if we weren't going to use it?04:26
alextremem_tthew: scary stuff, thanks for the info04:26
elmokamion: http works04:26
Kamionsure, rsync doesn't though04:26
m_tthewalextreme: no problem, I will test the one currently being built soon as you guys lemme know it's ready to download.04:26
Kamionelmo: I'm not sure why we weren't using cdimage in release announcements; I'll make sure to do so from now on04:27
elmoI've reverted archive.* back to just auckland04:28
alextremem_tthew: it probably will take some bugfixing to get right, i'll do a partial rebuild and some testing once i get behind my buildmachine later on04:28
lamontsabdfl: the one that scares me most about the new themes is explaining it to my daughter's 12-year-old friend's mother, after he installs ubuntu on my recommendation...04:28
sabdfllamont: HE won't be upset.04:29
lamontthat, and pictures of people on the desktop are just plain distracting.04:29
lamontsabdfl: don't care what he thinks.04:29
sabdfllamont: they are not the default04:29
Kamionthis is what the Mozilla people would call an "Evangelism bug", I think04:29
lamontincluding on the login screen?04:29
sabdflok, let's see where the dust settles04:29
=== lamont wishes he had a *(^*^& iso.
pitticarlos: I did not find out how to create an HFS+ file system under Linux. Did the previous pmount (which did umask=007) work for the iPod as expected?04:30
Kamionpitti: 'man hfsplus'04:30
carlospitti: I can send you a file with an empty HFS+ file system if you want04:31
pittiKamion: it contains a lot of tools, but none to create a filesystem04:31
thomright, reboot for GREAT JUSTICE04:31
carlospitti: I think so, but I need to recheck it to be sure (I did not saw any problem)04:31
pitticarlos: that'd be nice04:31
elmobloody rsync needs vhosting04:31
pitticarlos: mdz reverted the umask because umask=007 is interpreted totally wrong for hfs04:31
carlospitti: btw, did you saw my bugreport about hal not seeing my iPod anymore?04:32
Kamionpitti: so it doesn't04:32
KamionGreek install time04:32
pitticarlos: I saw the notification mail, but did not yet look at the report04:32
carlospitti: ok04:32
carlospitti: I have 0.1-604:32
lamontalextreme: /usr/sbin/mkminiroot-morphix: line 58: Found: command not found04:32
lamontle huh?04:32
Kamionelmo: or make both of them have all three rsync modules, I guess ...04:32
carloswhich version should I test?04:32
elmokamion: I can't - cdimage is too big04:33
carlos(talking about pmount)04:33
Kamionelmo: ah :-(04:33
Kamionelmo: I can temporarily shrink it but I'm sure it'd grow again, daily builds being what they are ...04:34
KamionI should set up auto-pruning04:34
Keybukjdub: is there any particular reason ubuntu-artwork isn't 1.0 or 4.10 ?04:34
pitticarlos: ugh, that sounds bad. the last intrusive change has been on Sept 27...04:34
Keybuklikewise ubuntu-base and ubuntu-desktop04:34
pitticarlos: lshal does not contain anything?04:34
lamontfor udeb in $UDEBS04:34
lamont  `cd /tmp && deb-get $udeb`04:34
elmoKamion: unfortunately the free machines we have aren't nearly as well endowed storage wise - you'd have to shrink it to like 35Gb for it to fit04:34
lamontI, um, think those want to be () ,not ``04:35
jdubKeybuk: NOW IS NOT THE TIME04:35
carlospitti: wait, let me finish the check you asked me and then we come back to hal :-)04:35
Kamion(not to mention quoting "$udeb" thus04:35
lamontKamion: it needs quotes?04:36
Keybukjdub: you didn't think of that, did you? :o)04:36
carlospitti: which version of pmount should I test?04:36
alextremelamont: did you install the recommended packages? :)04:36
=== lamont is reminded to grumble at lgc-pg_0.32-2 ebook-dev-ggad_199908-5 lgeneral_1.1.1-4 libnsuml-java_0.4.20-10 libvpopmail-perl_0.08-2
pitticarlos: 0.1-504:36
jdubKeybuk: i just stuck with the existing numbering ;)04:36
lamontalextreme: what are recommends? :-)04:36
Kamionlamont: shell variable expansions always need quoting unless you have a very good reason not to04:36
lamontKamion: true04:36
Kamion'for udeb in $UDEBS' is a good reason where you don't want quoting around $UDEBS.04:37
lamontalextreme: if it has to be there, then it's not a recommends...04:37
=== thom sees more blue and red screen
Kamioncrap, my i386 CD burnt badly04:37
lamontalextreme: what package do I need to have there04:37
alextremelamont: yeah yeah, i'm not a DD :)04:37
alextremelamont: une momento...04:37
thominstall0r1s1ng kernel04:37
alextremelamont: mkminiroot-morphix, morphix-deb-get, morphix-make-iso04:37
thomcopying every bastard thing on the planet on the cd04:37
pitticarlos: soory to bother you with all this :-)04:38
=== alextreme throws them into the very long dependancy line...
carlospitti: no problem04:38
lamontii  mkminiroot-mor 0.1-5          creates a miniroot/initrd for Morphix using 04:38
carlospitti: ok, pmount /dev/sda304:38
lamontii  morphix-deb-ge 0.2-2          Script to retrieve packages from repositorie04:38
lamontii  morphix-make-i 0.2-2          Script to build a Morphix iso from a directo04:38
m_tthewthom: we are almost sychronized04:38
carlosany other argument?04:38
pitticarlos: are the permissions on the device correct?04:38
thomarchiver-copier is really boring04:38
carlospitti: /dev/sda3 on /media/sda3 type hfsplus (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,sync,umask=007,uid=1000,gid=1000)04:38
pitticarlos: i. e. not world-readable/writeable04:38
lamontalextreme: but the `` on that line are causing the shell to attempt to _EXECUTE_ the _OUTPUT_ of the command, after it runs...04:39
pitticarlos: ls -l /media/sda304:39
lamontI can't see how that could be what we want04:39
carlospitti: no, they are world readable04:39
pitticarlos: (only one or two examples)04:39
mdzi386, powerpc and amd64 underway04:39
carlosdrwxr--r--    1 carlos   carlos          2 2004-08-21 12:06 Calendars04:39
carlosdrwxr--r--    1 carlos   carlos          4 2004-08-21 12:06 Contacts04:39
pitticarlos: okay, that means that hfsplus does not respect umask.04:39
alextremelamont: une momento...04:39
pitticarlos: that's what I wanted to know, thanks a lot! :-)04:39
jdubOH BONG04:40
=== lamont is reminded to grumble at lgc-pg_0.32-2 ebook-dev-ggad_199908-5 lgeneral_1.1.1-4 libnsuml-java_0.4.20-10 libvpopmail-perl_0.08-2
carlospitti: no problem, if you want I could "fix" it with my patch (but will be for hoary)04:40
jdubthe fricking bullet points in the on-disk home page are off-disk04:40
Kamionjdub: ?04:40
=== jdub will fix post-rc
thomjdub: HFSNW04:40
jdubthom: W!04:40
pitticarlos: I was asked for umask=007 in case you store gpg keys and such on your memory stick04:40
lamontjdub: s/rc/preview2/04:40
Keybukjdub: though I do like the new login screen04:41
carlospitti: I don't see the problem with hfs+ then, it does not work for it, that all, right? but it will work with other filesystems04:41
Keybuk(install just finished)04:41
jdubKeybuk: yeah, that image works so nicely for it04:42
pitticarlos: I wanted to know whether it breaks similarly to hfs; for hfs, umask=007 means that all files are 007!04:42
thom"the hardware clock says the time is now ."04:42
carlospitti: hfs or hfs+?04:42
pittithom: now is always a good time to be at :-)04:42
pitticarlos: hfs04:43
carlosoh, I tested it as hfs+04:43
Kamionmaybe hwclock didn't produce sensible output04:43
carloslet me recheck it as hfs04:43
pitticarlos: right, that's what I wanted04:43
thomKamion: amd64, no rtc access04:43
pitticarlos: I can check hfs for myself (hfsutils)04:43
carlosdoes pmount accept -t hfs?04:43
Kamionthom: heh, I thought we'd fixed that bug04:43
thom(cos the module ain't loaded)04:43
pitticarlos: no04:43
thomseems not04:43
carlosthen I cannot test it now04:43
pitticarlos: it autodetects the filesystem04:43
carloshmm, well, I could "remove" hfsplus driver04:44
thomi shall get useful dmesg in a bit and file bugses04:44
pitticarlos: no need, I know everything that I wanted and need04:44
pitticarlos: thanks04:44
Kamionthom: I think I've already got a bug about rtc not being loaded04:44
thomi won't bother then.04:44
thomeven better04:44
carlospitti: about the hal problem, lshal does not list my ipod anymore04:45
pitticarlos: do you know whether it worked with any 0.2.98 version?04:45
pitticarlos: i. e. anytime after September 27?04:45
carlospitti: the problem was with latest update04:45
pitticarlos: should, other people reported it to work04:45
=== pitti looks in the changelog
Kamionamd64 successful04:45
thomi still think the steel grey watermark background is the best of the lot04:46
mdzamd64 and powerpc in aptitude, i386 in archive-copier04:46
pitticarlos: odd, the last change was just removing some digital camera fdi files04:46
lamontthom: grey is much softer on the eyes than brown04:46
thomamd64 just about to finish aptitude04:46
pitticarlos: can you please verify that reverting to ubuntu7 works?04:46
lamontor so ISTR from the ergo folks04:46
=== lamont wanders off for about 10-15 minutes
Keybukok, I just logged in and got only a black background04:47
Keybukand the desktop background dialog crashes when I open it04:48
thomregistering documentation04:48
carlospitti: verified04:48
mdzKeybuk: nice04:48
carlosinstalled the ubuntu7 version and nautilus show me the iPod directory automatically04:48
pitticarlos: what the hell do the camera fdi files have to do with iPods? *grumble*04:48
=== Keybuk tries again
carlospitti: don't know :-P04:49
mdzpitti: perhaps the autoreconf broke it04:49
amuhehe the new theme must be x-rated   04:49
pitticarlos: Can I send you a test deb?04:49
carlospitti: by mail or URL, don't think my firewall will let you send it by irc (you could try, of cours)04:50
thomand we have gdm04:50
pittimdz: maybe, but it was autoreconfed before. Well, it's worth a try04:50
mdzpitti: check the debdiff04:50
pitticarlos: i386 or powerpc? I only have an i386 deb at the moment04:51
pitticarlos: can you build it yourself?04:51
carlosI don't have firewire in my pc04:51
carlospitti: sure04:51
pitticarlos: okay, I mail you diff.gz and .dsc04:51
Keybukok... that's *really* weird04:52
Keybukgconf-editor won't even let me look at the background key04:52
mdzamd64 success04:53
thomyeah, +1 for amd64 here04:53
pitticarlos: you have it 04:54
=== thom ambles off to get lunch
Keybukah, fixed it ... was my fault :p04:55
carlospitti: don't see the mail04:55
alextremelamont: back, did take a quick look at it and it should boot. got some new packages to fix the issues you were having, should hit m.org/debian shortly04:56
thomKeybuk: ... shock04:56
Keybukthom: had checked how the widescreen stuff had been done by opening in vi04:56
Keybukthere was a stray "i" left in the file04:56
pitticarlos: I sent it to carlos@pemas.net04:56
carlosI got it04:57
mdzpowerpc success04:59
mdzanyone had a successful i386 install yet? mine is registering docs04:59
carlosmdz: same here, powerpc installation was right, need to test it05:00
m_tthewmdz: I am in aptitude, watching the Selecting... Unpacking... shuffle05:00
carlosjdub: the gdm login screen does not shows "Contrasea" (password in spanish)  but "Contrase" the rest of the word is under the input field05:01
mdzi386 successful05:01
mdzKamion: 3 for 305:01
=== lifeless [~robertc@dsl-] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzpitti: FYI, my card reader works as expected with the RC05:02
pittimdz: graet, some good news :-)05:02
pittimdz: my devices work well, too05:02
mdzpitti: sabdfl has a problem with a pen drive which worked previously05:03
pittirburton: does your iPod work with the latest hal (i. e. with the RC)05:03
rburtonpitti: it works as long as i don't mount/unmount/eject quickly05:03
pittimdz: I created a hal version without any autotool file changes, carlos currently tests it05:03
thompitti: my usb card disk works fine05:03
pittimdz: I cannot imagine how the autotools stuff should break such things, but who knows...05:04
pittithom: thx05:04
Keybukpitti: just tried the camera, it takes about 10-15 seconds to appear -- and I get both an "sda1" window+icon rather than anything descriptive, but it works05:04
carlospitti: seems to be working now05:04
pittiKeybuk: sometimes I had that as well - absurdly long delays05:04
carlospitti: do you want the .deb fileS?05:04
pitticarlos: with the new hal?05:04
carlospitti: yes05:05
mdzlamont: how goes the live CD?05:05
pitticarlos: well, I could put them into my unofficial utopia repository05:05
Keybukpitti: looking at syslog it's actually making sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sde, sdf, sdg, etc. as well05:05
pitticarlos: I can compile them myself if necessary, though05:05
sabdflpitti: my pen drive isn't firing up a window when i plug it in05:05
pittiKeybuk: so many nodes for one device?05:05
pittisabdfl: i386?05:05
sabdflpitti: yes05:05
Keybukpitti: they're just device nodes, there's only an sda105:06
mdzpitti: did you revert the removal of the freedesktop stuff as well?  or patch that into Makefile.in?05:06
KeybukCD works05:06
Keybuk(btw, for hoary, do you have any idea how to get these things to have useful names like "CD-ROM" and "Camera" instead of hdc/sda1?)05:06
pittimdz: I reverted the removal of the fdi file that is upstream, because that one does not break cameras05:06
pittisabdfl: I can send you a test deb05:06
mdzKeybuk: yes05:07
pittiKeybuk: we have05:07
carlospitti: http://carlos.pemas.net/ubuntu (if you want the ppc debs)05:07
pittiKeybuk: g-v-m should keep a label database; pmount already supports it05:07
sabdflpitti: url is better than email05:07
pitticarlos: thanks05:07
pittisabdfl: http://www.piware.de/hal_0.2.98-1ubuntu9_i386.deb05:08
Kamioni386 in aptitude, powerpc in base-config05:08
rburtonpitti: i was going to check that it detected a usb stick here, but my hal is dead. still blocked in open() :)05:08
pittirburton: that's the error we already know about. Damn kernel bug...05:08
rburtonpitti: apart from that looking good05:09
rburtonnext time i reboot i'll verify the usb stick works here05:09
carlospitti: latest official pmount releases works with my pendrive (if you need a confirmation about it)05:09
pitticarlos, rburton: thanks05:09
sabdflpitti: perfect, what's the fix?05:10
pittisabdfl: I reverted to upstream's autotool files05:11
pittisabdfl: I needed to autoreconf in past releases05:11
pittisabdfl: but now that's not really necessary any more05:11
Mithrandirmdz: I think you're going to hate me.. but 1854 isn't fixed.05:11
mdzMithrandir: really?05:12
mdzI tried many times to reproduce it on your machine and was unable, after the patch05:12
Mithrandirmdz: try logging in and running apt-get upgrade05:13
mdzMithrandir: oh crap05:13
mdzMithrandir: I botched the change05:13
pittimdz: the newer hal seems to work better, so... (I don't dare to ask :- ))05:13
Mithrandirsorry I haven't been able to test it before, but I completely forgot to actually verify that it was fixed :/05:14
Kamionmdz's change fixed the bug I was hitting big-time on little05:14
Kamionso I thought it was safe ...05:14
mdzKamion: the patch, 9ubuntu1 or 9ubuntu2?05:15
mdz9ubuntu2 was busticated05:15
Mithrandirmy system has never seen 9ubuntu1.05:15
mdzthe patch and 9ubuntu1 are ok05:15
mdzI have 9ubuntu3 with the proper brown-bag fix05:15
Kamionis 9ubuntu2 showstopperishly broken?05:15
Kamionor just broken in the same way as -9?05:16
mdzKamion: not an RC showstopper05:16
mdzbut a final showstopper, methinks05:16
Kamionyes, agreed05:16
sabdflKamion: is ubuntu-desktop *exactly* the same as germinate?05:16
mdzsabdfl: it's based on the seed, not germinate output05:17
mdz(no dependencies)05:17
Kamionwhat he said05:17
Kamionmakes more sense that way05:17
Mithrandirmdz: you're just fixing it now, so no need to reopen, or?05:17
KeybukKamion: which kernel *is* http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/20040801ubuntu19/images/netboot/vmlinuz ?05:17
sabdflok, need to help alex get the livecd package list into parity, what's the best way?05:17
mdzMithrandir: I reopened it; I'm not uploading gzip until after the RC05:17
Mithrandirmdz: ack.05:17
mdzsabdfl: Kamion can send him germinate output05:18
sabdflok, this is not absolutely totally fixed, right?05:18
sabdflnow, not not05:18
sabdflonce again05:18
sabdflthis list is now totally fixed for release?05:18
KamionKeybuk: look in initrd.list alongside it05:18
KeybukKamion: ah, didn't know about that, handy05:19
mdzsabdfl: should be05:19
KamionKeybuk: you might have to correlate against linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 changelogs05:19
mdzbarring some extremely major "oh shit" moment05:19
sabdflKamion: could you please send alex the exact list when you have a sec?05:19
Kamionsabdfl: sure, after RC :-)05:19
Kamioni386 success05:19
Kamion(in Greek)05:19
mdzKamion: this is for the RC live CD05:20
Kamioncrap, ok05:20
mdzhe just needs base + desktop for i38605:20
sabdflcan i generate that list from a freshly installed box?05:20
Kamionalextreme: can you just use https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~cjwatson/germinate-warty-output/?05:20
mdzI wasn't sure if he had access to that05:21
alextremeKamion: i'll check, think it should do05:21
mdzsabdfl: in theory, yes05:21
Kamionmdz: alex has an account on chinstrap05:21
=== lamont pushes the new liveCD image (and out.gz) and admits to being back
lamontsomeone with bandwidth wanna test that?05:22
mdzlamont: need a bit more information in order to do that05:22
m_tthewi386 success05:22
m_tthewlamont: rsyncing05:23
Kamionpowerpc success05:23
lamont   551401472 100%    9.01MB/s    0:00:58  (1, 100.0% of 1)05:23
lamontwrote 542946115 bytes  read 164407 bytes  8291763.69 bytes/sec05:23
lamontrsync is not a big win. :-(05:23
Kamionso; shall I publish this on releases.ubuntu.com?05:23
mdzKamion: I think we have a winner05:24
Kamionlet's hope the publish script works05:24
mdzlamont: wasn't the previous live CD significantly larger than this one?05:25
lamontmdz: dunno05:25
lamontstill in the debug iteration phase... haven't been keeping logs. :-(05:26
mdzETA 24m05:26
=== lamont has a high-bandwidth lunch planned
lamontalthough I have to give the nice man some blank CDR's to make up for it....05:26
Kamionenjoy munching that CAT-505:26
lamontactually, he's bringing a couple of burnt CD's to lunch with him...05:30
Kamion$ publish-release 20041013.1 rc05:31
Kamionit might even work this time05:31
lamontnot rc1?05:31
Kamionwe've just been calling it "the warty release candidate"05:31
mdzthere shall be one release candidate :-)05:33
pittiOne Disc To Rule Them All...05:33
lamontmdz: and 3 elves, yes.05:33
lamontI'm glad we didn't use an LoTR naming convention.05:34
mdzsabdfl, make: do we have a finalized release candidate announcement to send out?05:36
sabdflwe do05:36
sabdflbefore you send it I need to update the download page05:36
sabdflare we blessing the latest live cd as rc?05:37
mdzit has not had a single test yet05:37
Kamionmirnyy's data transfer to/from little doesn't seem so great05:37
m_tthewETA ~25m on the linvecd image for me05:37
jdubcarlos: can you file a bug and attach a screenshot please?05:37
mdzit is the very first live CD built at the data center, rather than by alex05:37
=== jdub wilts in the heat.
mdzcarlos: he did already05:38
carlosjdub: it's already done05:38
pittiWill releases.u.o be updated as well?05:38
mdzjdub: he did alreaday05:38
KamionRC published, have a nice day05:38
jdubah, ta05:39
carlosmdz: btw, Happy birthday05:39
jdub(not getting mail atm, letting lappy cool down)05:39
Kamionsomebody have a look at releases.ubuntu.com please to make sure it's what y'all want05:39
mdzlooks fine to me05:39
pittiso, no live cd?05:39
lamontpitti: not until we test it...05:40
sabdfllooks perfect05:40
pittiKamion: congratulations!05:40
Kamionnow to actually fix the bugs in the publishing script that delayed that ...05:40
sabdflcan i update the web site to point there?05:40
=== lamont taps his foot
=== Sledge [~steve@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamonthrm.. what's /dev/sequencer, I wonder?05:45
sabdflthis is the canonical location, right?05:46
=== mdz listens to his alarm clock going off in the next room
sabdflok, page is updated05:50
mdzthom: here?05:50
sabdfli think it's announcement time05:51
Kamionsabdfl: either's fine, latter probably better05:51
mdzthom: scp warty.iso potpal:warty-live.iso 05:51
sabdflsimpler's better05:51
mdzthom: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3150505:51
Kamionnoting that if people look back to the RC announcement after the warty release, the link will no longer point to the RC05:51
lamontmdz: iso?05:51
mdzlamont: burning05:52
=== lamont considers this a lesson in patience.
thommdz: *sigh*05:52
Keybukthom: ping?05:52
Keybukah, there you are05:53
Keybukhow did you add thermal and fan to the loadmodules file in mkinitrd ?05:53
mdzthom: please roll a patch; we'll put this into final05:53
thommdz: ok, will get packages built ASAP05:53
mdzKeybuk: /etc/mkinitrd/modules05:53
sabdfli will check the mirrors every hour or two, and point people at them as they get the cd images05:53
Keybukmdz: I looked at that, it's empty (apart from comments)05:54
mdzKeybuk: oh, that05:54
sabdflso congratulations, warty team05:54
mdzKeybuk: he patched mkinitrd05:54
=== Keybuk can't find the patch
mdzyes, congratulations05:54
m_tthewway to go, guys.05:54
mdzKeybuk: line 96105:54
Keybukbecause I think I just fixed the problem with fans and HP Compaqs05:54
sabdflhappy birthday mdz!05:54
thomKeybuk: oh?05:55
Kamionhappy warty^Wbirthday05:55
Keybukthom: you have to load 'fan' before 'thermal', otherwise thermal doesn't know there are any fans to control05:55
thomnow you tell me :/05:55
Keybukwhich is why they don't come on :)05:55
Keybukthom: this seems to be a recent change; 2.6.7 the order doesn't matter, it seems to05:55
SledgeKamion: did you get on ok with mkjigsnap now?05:56
Keybuk(or maybe it always mattered, and acpid's init script happens to load fan before thermal because it's asciibetically less)05:56
KamionSledge: I was instructed to concentrate on the release candidate that we just put out first, and come back to jigdo afterwards; returning to it now05:57
mdzlamont, alextreme: Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(9,0)05:57
fabbioneguys good luck with the release05:57
elmosabdfl: w.ul.o/download/ will be fixed before we release, right ?05:58
alextrememdz: does the grub menu show up at all?05:58
fabbionei have to go to the house and do some preparation work for tomorrow :((((05:58
mdzalextreme: yes05:58
lamontmdz: well, that's consistant at least.05:58
Kamionis admins@admins.w.h.c still the right admin contact address?05:58
lamontm_tthew: did you also get that with alex's new bits?05:58
sabdflelmo: what's wrong with it?05:58
alextremelamont: the buildlog is online?05:58
lamontI think.  wherever the last one was05:59
sabdflerm, that's weird, i edited it05:59
m_tthewlamont: with alex's build from yesterday, I got a boot (no mouse). with the most recent build, I am still waiting (~5m) on the iso download.05:59
SledgeKamion: understood05:59
thomKamion: yes05:59
mdzfailsafe mode gives the same results05:59
elmosabdfl: it refers to archive.ubuntu.com rather than releases.ubuntu.com05:59
thomKeybuk: please file a bug05:59
mdzalextreme: if a photo of the messages would help, let me know05:59
mdzbut it sounds the same as lamont experienced before05:59
lamontalextreme: the most recent build has the `` changed into (), but that shouldn't really have mattered.05:59
sabdfloh hell there 's this new workflow system05:59
sabdflhold on05:59
sabdfland thanks :-)05:59
alextrememdz: nope, not worth the effort, i'll download and inspect it when i get home06:00
alextremelamont: indeed. if you don't mind, i have to run now. i'll mail you anything i can find and pop in here every now and then. the next few days just got slightly more... interesting :)06:01
lamontalextreme: yes, please.06:02
alextremek, bbl06:03
mdzthom: I have CVS revision numbers for the apache2 fixes, if you don't have them already06:04
mdzthom: please reference CAN-2004-088506:04
thomi have the patches, yeah. ok06:05
thomjust throwing food down my neck06:05
sabdflelmo: looks like it could be the apache cache for the download page06:06
mdzthom: don't choke; it doesn't sound all that serious06:06
sabdflthom: can you see if the download page is cached, and that's why it still points in the wrong place?06:06
sabdflthom: please ack on the cache front06:09
Kamionsymlinking to .jigdo/.template files with different names is problematic06:10
Kamionwe may have to copy the .jigdo06:10
thomsabdfl: sorry, was eating as previously stated06:11
thomsabdfl: yes, it's in apache cache06:11
Kamionsame for the .torrent probably06:11
sabdflis that why http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/index_html/ is different to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/06:11
thomzope/plone appears not to bother sending Last-mod or etags or anything else remotely useful06:11
thomsabdfl: yep06:12
sabdflcan you jig it please06:12
sabdflhow long will it cache it for?06:12
mdzwhere did pitti go?06:13
sabdflthom: i'll need to update that page as more mirrors come on stream06:14
sabdflthom: thanks,we're golden for the anouncement06:15
m_tthewlamont: same cannot mount root failure on the livecd as mdz saw.06:15
thomsabdfl: 1 hour06:15
sabdflthom: ok, great06:15
sabdflthat's the one that's going to be hammered from the announcement so it needs to be cached06:15
sabdflbut we also need to be able to kick it when we rev the page06:16
KamionI've fixed the .jigdo and .torrent files now, I think06:16
Kamioncan somebody please test the .torrent?06:16
m_tthewKamion: yes, I will re-grab .torrents, the ones I have fail06:16
KamionSledge: you might get productive results testing jigit against the release-candidate .jigdo files, actually06:17
KamionSledge: at least just at the moment, since I don't think the archive has changed06:17
sabdfl"Need to get 0MB of 400MB".06:17
sabdflnice round numbers06:17
Kamionwe did that specially06:17
m_tthewKamion: rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker.06:17
Kamionthom: any clue?06:18
Kamionmaybe torrent.u.c needs to be told about releases.u.c?06:18
thomhang on06:18
SledgeKamion: ok, ta06:19
thomthe path has changed i guess, lemme check06:19
m_tthewthom: let me know when I should try again06:23
thomwell, i grabbed http://torrent.ubuntu.com/releases/4.10/rc/warty-install-amd64.iso.torrent and it seems fine06:23
mdzcarlos: here?06:24
carlosmdz: ye06:24
mdzcarlos: do you have a copy of the source for martin's hal fix?06:24
carlosmdz: yes06:24
m_tthewthom: ok, I was using the torrents from http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/06:24
mdzcarlos: could you send it to me?06:24
KamionSledge: ok, updated directions sent to admins, hopefully should work06:24
thombut it likes releases.ubuntu.com not at all06:24
carlosmdz: I have also ppc packages if you want06:24
mdzcarlos: sure06:24
carlosmdz: http://carlos.pemas.net/ubuntu06:25
carlosI'm going to upload now the sources06:25
=== thom wonders why that shouldn't work
thomKamion: releases.u.c isn't regenerated or any madness like that, is it?06:27
carlosmdz: sources uploaded06:28
Kamionthom: regenerated in what way?06:28
Kamionthom: the torrents are regenerated, because the filenames have changed06:28
thomwe need to have those exact torrents on cdimage, or we need to move torrent to mirnyy then06:29
thomotherwise the tracker can't see those torrents06:29
Kamiondon't get you, they are on cdimage06:29
KamionI don't think releases.u.c does any magic on mirnyy06:29
thomare the torrents on auckland and mirnyy exactly the same? 06:30
KamionI just did 'btmakemetafile http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce --comment "Ubuntu CD cdimage.ubuntu.com" `pwd`/warty-rc-install-amd64.iso' etc.06:30
Kamionauckland's torrents will be different06:30
Kamionbecause auckland mirrors www/full/ from little whereas mirnyy mirrors www/simple/06:30
thomok. the tracker has to have all the torrent files that people are going to request from it on its local filesystem06:31
thomyou're saying we don't have that currently?06:31
Kamionwww/full/releases/warty/rc/ and www/simple/.pool/ have warty-install-*, but www/simple/warty/ has warty-rc-install-*06:32
Kamionthom: how does it find the torrent files?06:32
Kamionthom: and where is the tracker?06:32
=== x4m [~max@74.151-200-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
SledgeKamion: ah, difficult to test without .conf files06:32
SledgeKamion: I'm grabbing bits down anyway...06:33
thomKamion: you give the tracker and allowed dir, and it allows you to use any torrents below that dir06:33
thomand it runs on auckland06:33
Kamionthom: so just anything called *.torrent?06:33
KamionSledge: oh, whoops06:33
Kamion.conf is kind of a generic name ...06:33
SledgeKamion: yup06:33
thomwe're also gonna need to run seeders on mirnny then06:33
thomor so all the .pool magic on auckland, which might well be saner06:34
SledgeI can change that to something else if it helps06:34
elmothom: we need to get some load off auckland, and using mirnyy for releases is our best and about only hope06:34
Kamionyou could sync all of www/ onto auckland but only publicise www/full/, if it has space to do that06:34
Sledge.jigit might be easiest06:34
elmoI don't think we should not do that for the sake of torrent06:34
Kamionsounds like seeders on mirnyy are a better plan then06:34
elmokamion: auckland has gobs of space, mirrny is the space restricted one06:34
Kamion(p.s. please choose typable hostnames, kthxbye ;))06:35
thomelmo: sure, not saying we shouldn't use mirnyy, just that the tracker needs to be able tosee the torrents and the files06:35
elmowhy can't we just also sync little::releases to auckland couldn't we?06:35
elmospeak.  english.  good.  no.  me.06:35
Kamionelmo: I thought that's what I was suggesting above06:35
thomelmo: that would be best, i didn't know if there was some reason we hadn't?06:35
Kamioni.e. syncing all of www/06:36
elmolearn.  I.  it.  book.  from.  a.06:36
thomKamion: be glad that elmo added the 'i'06:36
thomit's properly mrnyy iirc06:36
Kamion(baby, crying, etc.)06:36
elmothom: no it was just late or early when I set up releases.u.c06:36
elmono, it really is 'mirnyy', at least according to the website we use06:36
thomaww, ok06:37
elmothom: btw, that evil Russian name you wanted to use is apparently a joke name that roughly equates to 'New Miami'06:37
thomright, so lets sync ::releases06:37
thomelmo: rofl06:37
thomthat's even better then :-)06:37
Mithrandirgobbing the .torrents off http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/rc/ is good, right?06:37
KamionSledge: I'm mostly thinking that we want to have all of these in one directory, and it's getting confusing as it is with .iso, .iso.torrent, .list, .jigdo, and .templates for each of three architectures06:37
Mithrandiror should I seed from some other URI?06:38
Kamionin fact, maybe moving all the jigdo files elsewhere would be marginally more sensible06:38
SledgeKamion: ok06:38
=== thom watches Kamion's brain implode
SledgeI wasinitially thinking putting all the jigdo bits under /jigit/06:38
lamontneed more links to ../../../bar/foo/baz06:38
=== Sledge grins thom
KamionSledge: that makes sense, but jigit still needs to find the .iso doesn't it?06:39
thomMithrandir: that'll  be great06:39
Sledgejigit doesn't ever need the iso, no06:39
Mithrandirthom: I only have two 100Mbits to seed from, though.06:40
Kamionthom: bittorrent won't know that cdimage/releases/warty/rc/ and releases/warty/ are the same thing, though, will it?06:40
Kamionif we're publicising releases/warty/, then better to seed from that when it works06:40
SledgeKamion: ditto, other jigdo progs don't care about the iso either06:40
KamionSledge: oh, ok, that's cool06:41
KamionI still have no idea where to put them, but it suggests ideas at least06:41
Kamionyou missed the reorganisation of the cdimage tree06:42
Kamionwe now have two parallel trees with intermixing hardlinks and symlinks06:42
mdzis the twisty directory maze holding up the release candidate announcement?06:42
KamionI think cdimage/releases/warty/ is going to have to be considered legacy in its current form or I'll go nuts06:43
Kamionmdz: torrents might be, directory mazes aren't06:43
SledgeKamion: does torrent need the iso too?06:43
Sledgeotherwise I'd lay it out06:43
elmowhat the heck is cdimage/releases/warty ?06:43
Kamionelmo: old layout, predating ::releases06:44
KamionSledge: makes sense06:44
Sledgehow much effort to make torrent configs?06:44
Kamiontrivial, you run btmakemetafile and it does it06:45
Sledgejust wondering if it would help to make one back-end script to do a CD release and DTRT06:45
KamionI've got publish-daily and publish-release scripts already which do most of the heavy lifting06:46
lamontSledge: I thought Kamion already "did that" [sic] .06:46
SledgeI guessed you would... :-)06:46
Kamionmdz: mm, if that was a "go away and stop distracting us", we'll move the detailed CD discussion elsewhere06:47
mdzKamion: no, it was an honest question06:47
Kamionah, ok06:47
mdzsabdfl: is the release announcement waiting on anything other than torrents?06:48
makomdz: i'd like to look it over right now if it's changed since i left last night06:50
sabdflmdz: not from me, i've got my teflon trousers on already :-)06:51
makolooks great06:51
thomok, last minute torrent hacking seems to be turning into a theme06:52
lamontsabdfl: those are, like, slipperier than silk, yes?06:53
makolamont: i hear they're very popular in europe06:54
Keybukyay, the HP is a happy laptop once more06:54
Keybukthom: you know how a lot of people saw a change from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8 with the fans thing?06:56
jdubyou guys don't really need me any more06:56
jdubit's 3am and i have meetings tomorrow :|06:56
jdubi'm going to get some rest ;)06:56
Keybukit actually turns out that 2.6.7 didn't have your initrd change in it, and 2.6.8 did :)06:57
sabdflmako: and baghdad06:59
silbsjdub: g'night07:00
thomok, tracker seems happy now, just hacking the seeders07:01
thomm_tthew: please try again now? :-)07:03
m_tthewthom: I regrabbed torrents from http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/, bt seems happy but seedless (expected, I assume)07:03
thomshould be seeded now, i just this second kicked them off07:04
m_tthewok, keeping an eye on them07:04
m_tthewmy i386, which is complete, is sending upstream A-OK07:04
m_tthewstill not seeing any downstream on my incomplete amd64 and ppc torrents07:05
Kamionthom: awesome, thanks07:05
m_tthewthere comes downstream on ppc07:05
m_tthewand amd6407:06
m_tthewall torrents look good from here07:06
thomthanks for testing07:07
mako we should change the text http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/download07:09
makoso it doesn't say preview release07:09
makoi can do it07:09
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makoergh. if i can find my pw07:10
sabdflbut thom will need to kick the cache for it to populate07:12
sabdflmako: so is it good for announcement?07:12
makosabdfl: beat me too it07:14
thomTotals:   2.5 MB/s 105.2 KB/s07:15
makosabdfl: i'07:15
mdzthe new artwork has caused text breakage in non-english locales07:15
makoi am going to add somethign to mention that the torrent file are at the download site07:15
makosabdfl: that's not entirely clear from the current text07:15
sabdflmako: mind if i do it?07:16
sabdfli'm right there07:16
makosabdfl: i did it07:16
makosorry.. was finished by the time i saw your message07:17
sabdflmako: then i think we just collided07:17
makoif it lets you stomp on my changes, that's fine :)07:18
sabdflcan you verify you're happy with the current state?07:18
sabdflshoudl we say RC instead of Release Candidate?07:18
makosabdfl: if we say the former we should have the latter at least once07:20
makoour version numbering is confusing enough people as it is :)07:20
makosabdfl: looks good07:20
makomy main concern was that the links at that page pointed to the correct place, which they do07:21
makothis is nice timing.. i'm giving a talk on ubuntu tonight at the a new york lug meeting :)07:22
makotheir beginners group07:22
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Kamionmdz: I noticed something being overprinted in Greek07:28
mdzKamion: someone reported a bug about Greek as well07:29
mdzin gdm07:30
mdznever mind07:30
mdzit was greek in openoffice07:30
mdz#2337 points out Spanish and French as being broken07:30
mdzare there photos of me on the website or something?07:31
mdzsomeone just made a comment on -users about my lack of hair :-)07:31
makomdz: wow. :)07:33
silbsmdz: maybe they think the guy in the artwork is you07:34
=== m_tthew laughs
mdzsounds like an infection meme; let it spread :-)07:35
mdzI will neither confirm nor deny07:35
makowhat, you mean the guy in the picture is *not* mdz?07:35
makomdz: the uberhacker, the amature body builder, the model07:36
=== mdz poses and flexes
Keybukhe does look like he can walk up walls, now you mention it ...07:37
sabdflmdz: that's what a power nap will do for you07:37
mdzwhat it will do is cause me not to notice my own typos until several minutes later07:37
sabdfllook, having met the guy, i can confirm that he's NO ROCKET SCIENTIST07:38
hornbecksabdfl, mdz: Off topic but is there anything in the works for a doc mailing list07:38
sabdflmuch prefer having mdz on board07:38
silbssabdfl: doesn't matter07:38
silbs(that he's not a rocket scientist)07:39
sabdflhornbeck: enrico, sivang are collaborating now i think, ping them, sounds like a good idea07:39
hornbecksabdfl: I have been working with sivang but he is out in the cold also about what is going on07:39
makohornbeck: to start, conversations should just be on -devel prefixed with a [doc]  or something07:39
makohornbeck: i've been talking to sivang every couple days but have been samped teh last 2 or so07:39
hornbeckmako: I will start pointing everyone to the devel list07:40
makohornbeck: if you guys want some direction or someone to bounce ideas off, lets organize a meeting in a couple days07:40
hornbeckfor some reason I have become the contact person for docs07:40
makohornbeck: i'm happy to help however i can :)07:40
hornbeckmako: A meeting would be great07:40
makohornbeck: you stick your neck out, you get noticed :)07:40
hornbeckI know what I am working on but others need direction07:41
makohornbeck: and it might be good to compare07:41
makohornbeck: maybe plan for friday?07:41
hornbeckmako: what time?07:41
makoi think i should have dug myself out of the hole i'm in workwise07:41
hornbeck1600 UTC?07:42
makohornbeck: i think UTC 14-> would work07:42
hornbeckfriday at ubuntu-meeting07:42
makohornbeck: sounds good07:42
makohornbeck: throw out that message to the -devel07:42
hornbeckI will put on -devel and ubuntu07:42
hornbeckmako: 1400 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting07:42
mdzI think an ubuntu-doc list could very well be in order07:43
sabdflyes, agreed on -devel with [doc] 07:43
sabdflas discussed in the cc ;-)07:43
mdzthere seems to be a lot of activity picking up07:43
hornbeckmdz: there are alot of us and we need a place to talk07:43
mdz-devel is very focused on packaging and release right now, and I appreciate that07:43
hornbeckmdz: in the past two days I have had about five new request of how to join a doc team that does not exist07:43
sabdflhornbeck: please start on -devel though, then setup the list when traffic hits a threshold07:44
makoas right07:44
hornbecksabdfl: I will direct everyone there07:44
sabdfloh, ok07:44
makohornbeck: that's exciting :)07:44
mdzyes, there has been a great deal of activity in the wiki as well07:44
hornbeckmako: yes it is 07:44
hornbeckemail is out07:46
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sivanghey john07:49
hornbecksivang: doc meeting friday, 1400UTC07:49
sivangRC already out?07:49
sivangok, talked with sabdfl?07:49
makosivang: yeah, lots of people07:50
makosivang: i'll be there as well07:50
sivangmako : really? what did I miss?07:50
makosivang: nothing that reading the mail on -devel won't fix :)07:50
hornbeckread the regular list also about the unofficial faq07:51
sivanghornbeck : already did :)07:52
hornbeckthat guy is mailing me direct now07:52
hornbeckhe is going to help out, I talked him into it07:52
hornbeckyeah hes a smart guy07:52
sivangWe need to join forces, not split up07:52
hornbeckwell I have to go to a job interview07:53
hornbeckwish me luck07:53
makohornbeck: good luck07:53
sabdflhornbeck: break a leg07:57
sivangmako : who else is going to be on the meeting?07:57
makosivang: all of the people who have expressed interested in doc stuff i believe07:58
sivangmako : ok, sound neat.07:58
sivangis RC out already?07:58
makosivang: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/download07:58
makoalthough i don't thinkt he announcement went out07:59
mdzsabdfl: your turn; now they're speculating that the man in the theme is you07:59
makoman.. my email is not downloading right now.. i *really* want to read this thread07:59
sivangmako : thanks - I'll download and start to test.07:59
mdzalmost everyone protesting the artwork seems to be doing so on behalf of handwavy third parties08:02
KeybukI've added a bunch of FAQs to the Ubuntu wiki for those that really feel the urge to change them08:02
mdzI'm against it because...someone else might not like it08:02
elmocan I change the wiki yet to point to releases?08:03
elmoI guess so, given the website's been changed08:03
sabdflelmo: yes please08:03
sabdfli have to step out for an hour, see you guys shortly08:04
sabdflhas any announcement been sent?08:04
elmohave we actually got anyone responsible for sending it, or do we all think the other is doing it ? ;-)08:04
Kamionelmo: well volunteered that man08:06
Mithrandirhave the url for the torrent changed?08:06
mdzsabdfl: no, I thought you and mako were on that?08:06
Mithrandirmy box is sad, it doesn't upload anything.08:06
=== sabdfl cries
sabdflmako: please send!08:08
=== elmo ponders the inevitable "How many Canonical staff does it take to send a release announce?" jokes
sabdflthom: this is a very confidential.... nevermind08:08
makoi'll send, i'll send08:08
sabdflcheers guys, hope i come back to some fireworks :-)08:08
sabdflhave my phone with me in case08:08
Kamionenjoy :)08:08
elmowhat's the "correct" form for rsync URLs ?08:10
elmorsync://host::module/path/ ?08:10
mdzelmo: rsync://host/module/path08:10
mdz:: is the non-URL syntax preferred by Kamion :-)08:11
makomdz: i'm sending the announcement to u-a now08:12
mdzmako: great08:12
makom going to double check the url's first08:13
sivangmako : do send me the log of everything went with docs, I taking off for 30 minutes and will be back08:13
makosivang: after the announce goes out :)08:14
sivangmako : sure no problem.08:14
Kamionmdz: I'm hopelessly inconsistent about which I use08:17
=== thom notes he really needs to throw large things at mark next time he sees him
Kamionmdz: even I'd avoid rsync://host::module/path/ though :)08:17
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elmothom: bribe jane08:22
elmoDear Jane, please pull large shelf unit down on to Mark.  kthxbye08:22
thomi'll give that a whirl08:22
makothe deed is done08:23
makoRC has been announced08:23
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elmodid anyone else get it back yet?08:41
makowho knows how to update/alert distrowatch08:46
makowe just hit LWN08:46
elmothose lwn guys are super fast08:47
=== mako nods
=== thom -> bed
makojdub: if you know how to do distrowatch, please follow up on that one08:51
thommdz_: apache2 building currently, will upload first thing tomorrow08:51
makomdz_: do you want to fwd the announcment to debian-devel or is not worth it for an RC?08:51
mdz_mako: I think we're getting increasingly off-topic for -devel08:52
mdz_I don't want to keep pushing until someone tells us to go away08:52
mdz_debian-user I think would be fine, though08:52
makoi think we shoudl announce annoucnments08:52
makomdz_: it's a balance.. progency and linspire have been criticized for taking debian's stuff and just doing their own thing08:53
makomdz_: certainly, something other than just forwarding announcments would be good as well08:53
mdz_mako: our RC announcement has essentially nothing to do with Debian development; it's off-topic08:54
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mdz_the announcement of our existence was pertinent, but I don't think that our every announcement is08:54
=== mako nods
Kamiondebian-project would be arguable, although even there it's borderline08:55
makoi don't disagree, that's why i suggested it miht not be worth it08:55
mdz_we are more interesting to Debian users than Debian developers, which is why I suggested -user08:56
makoelmo: 20:54 <Md> hi. I think ftp3.linux.it is still listed as an ubuntu CD mirror, please remove it because it's down and the stupid sponsor is not replying to email...08:56
elmomako: it's not on the website, mark took them all down until we can get confirmation they've got the RC08:58
elmobut thanks08:58
amuis there a need for a good connected german mirror ?  09:04
amu( Telefonica ) 09:05
makoelmo: ?09:08
mdz_mako: is the announcement sent?09:09
amumdz_: i got it ;) 09:11
mdz_I haven't09:12
mdz_I'd better be subscribed :-P09:12
=== sabdfl returns, expecting flames everywhere...
sabdflhow's it look?09:13
elmomako: ?09:14
elmosabdfl: not been slashdotted yet, so not much increase in activity09:15
sabdflKamion: odd, on the test ipw2200 laptop, the wifi was detected and used during install, but it's not there after reboot09:15
sabdflthe module is loaded though09:16
amu.... or test the Live CD, you can download it here .... i cant find the liveCD :) *ducks* 09:16
sabdfldmesg shows:09:16
sabdfldetected it09:16
sabdflthen "failed to send TX_POWER command" fives times09:17
sabdflthen it gave up09:17
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mdz_lamont: live CD?09:23
amuhmm, if i change my laptop vom ethernet to wlan, i've to setup wlan everytime by hand ...i miss something like laptop-net, which handle ethernet,usb,firewire,vpn,gprs sessions        09:35
mdz_amu: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryHedgehog09:38
amumdz_: again, it sounds cool ;) i didnt found encryption, ex. in german governments, encrytion is a must.       09:45
mdzamu: encryption in which applications?09:46
amuthe hole harddisk or partions .... 09:46
amuif they put sensible datas on their notebook and the book gets lost, i must be guaranteed that nobody comes to the datas. Very interessting   09:49
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lamont_psilbs around still?10:00
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makoelmo: has anyone else here submitted it to slashdot???10:03
makoactaully that was to everyone10:03
m_tthewwithout spelling errors, this time.10:03
lamont_pmako: any clue why a 5-pack would weigh 1kg?10:04
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lamont_ppalm + irc is interesting10:05
makolamont_p: five pack of cd's?!10:06
makolamont_p: not last i checked10:06
makolamont_p: that's 2+ lbs10:07
lamont_pq for silbs from a us bdder on the shipping10:07
fabbionemdz: is alright for you if i take the tiff problem and fix it tomorrow morning?10:13
m_tthew"2004-10-13 18:26:30 Ubuntu Linux 'Warty Warthog' Release Canidate Out (Linux,Announcements) (rejected)"10:14
m_tthewI assume some more people tried10:14
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lamont_panyway.  bbl10:15
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elmomdz: ?10:17
hornbeckI am getting alot of replys about the doc meeting10:22
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mdzfabbione: yes10:26
mdzelmo: ?10:26
elmomdz: should snmp on linux provide 64-bit counters by default, do you know?10:26
mdzelmo: I do not know10:27
mdzelmo: sometimes it's enough to shorten the collection interval10:27
mdzsucks with rrd, though, because it means generating a new rrd10:27
mdzrrdtool has this magic where it tries to account for counter overflow10:28
mdzwhich is normally nothing but a huge pain in the ass because it causes huge spikes whenever the snmp agent is restarted10:28
elmo[13-Oct-2004 21:25:24*]  Received SNMP response with error code noSuchName. OID:
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mdzmizar:[/tmp/net-snmp-5.1.2]  grep -i '64.*counter' TODO10:31
mdz64-bit counters10:31
mdzthere is a bunch of code for it, though10:31
mdzit has a 64-bit counter data type10:31
elmowhy on earth does changing the collection interval mean trashing the rrd?10:32
mdzit's the nature of rrd10:35
mdzit's a fixed number of slots10:35
mdzI suppose you could just make up data10:36
mdzif it's evenly divisible, duplicate each sample N times or something like that10:36
mdzI'm sure there are consolidation functions that would break with that approach, though10:37
mdzbut AVERAGE would stay the same10:37
mdzyeah, I think net-snmp might just suck in this respect10:41
mdzseems to be able to retrieve 64-bit counters from devices which have them10:41
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sabdflelmo: how's traffic looking?10:50
mdzslashdot has given us the thumbs-down, it would appear10:52
m_tthewapparently they find parrot more exciting10:52
mdzwe're on LWN10:52
azeemmdz: resubmit to /. with 'Ubuntu release candidate with pr0n wallpaper'10:54
m_tthewno doubt that is how the /. splash will eventually happen10:55
azeemwhen exactly do you plan to ship the CDs?10:55
mdzafter the final release10:56
azeemhmm, ok. It's just I'll be at Systems, Munich next week, so I could put some up at the Debian booth perhaps if they'd arrive till then10:57
mdzyou are free to bring some release candidate CD-Rs with you of course, but we only plan to press CDs for the final release10:57
KeybukI'm not surprised ... we've probably had all our /. coverage for a while now10:58
Keybuktoo many announcements too quickly10:58
sabdflis there a submission we can see?11:09
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sabdflis that a mirror of today's release?11:18
Keybukaccording to the MD5SUMS file, yes11:20
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vorlonI don't suppose I can bug anyone here with a question about an ISO I downloaded yesterday that I can no longer find a link back to in order to check the md5sum? ;)11:22
Keybukvorlon: sure, the answer is "blue and ever-so-slightly salty"11:24
Mithrandirvorlon: or sqrt(42/sqrt(pi))11:25
Mithrandirvorlon: please shoot.11:25
vorlonKeybuk: damn, guess that means I'll have to redownload.11:25
Mithrandirvorlon: rsync.11:25
Keybukvorlon: was it one of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/ ?11:26
Keybukor something from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/ ?11:26
vorlonKeybuk: it was the main download link posted on ubuntulinux.com, US mirror.11:26
Mithrandirvorlon: archive.ubuntu.com::cdimage/releases/warty/rc/ somewhere. :)11:27
Keybuk^ that's probably the MD5SUMS file you want ... (guessing)11:27
vorlonKeybuk: ah, n/m, it looks like this was actually a bad burn.11:27
=== vorlon is so used to having perfect burns that he hadn't bothered to check this. Meh.
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Mithrandirthis is weird -- https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2348 , in normal mozilla. scroll down with the mouse wheel, and it stops approximately 500 pixels from the bottom.11:40
m_tthewMithrandir: I thought that was just me11:42
m_tthewMithrandir: it has not always been that way, I quasi-suspected CSS magic/crack.11:43
Mithrandirsounds like a mozilla bug11:43
Mithrandirsince arrow keys work11:43
Mithrandirand you get stuck at the bottom11:43

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