[12:01] <Kamion> elmo: it's wrapped in a script
[12:02] <elmo> cool
[12:02] <Kamion> hey, you can even branch off it in tla if you want me to change it ;)
[12:04] <Kamion> (lucky he's disint-resistant, eh?)
[12:04] <mdz> But wait!  elmo's medallion begins to glow!
[12:05] <sivang> the medallion reflects back the disintegration beam to the Sun...
[12:05] <Kamion> sivang: aha, you have not yet been infected by a certain game ...
[12:06] <sivang> Kamion : quite not, waston my friend, quite not..:)
[12:07] <Kamion> elmo: anyway, yeah, tla kinda seemed appropriate at the time given the context :P
[12:07] <sabdfl> oh dear
[12:08] <sabdfl> time for some potions of rejuvenation
[12:08] <sabdfl> a.k.a. sleeping pills for the warty team
[12:08] <sivang> sleep ? who us? sl-eep? what does the word mean anyway?
[12:09] <amU> mdz: i'm upping a new iso, your ati problem is fixed, with packages from 23h CEST 
[12:09] <mdz> amU: great, URL?
[12:10] <amU> .... upping now, ETA is 2h    
[12:10] <elmo> gar.  stupid torrent.
[12:10] <mdz> Kamion: ready to do the CD build?
[12:12] <amU> elmo: who many users has the torrentserver ? mine broke at about online 500 users :( 
[12:13] <amU> s/online 500/500 online/
[12:14] <Kamion> mdz: only when elmo gives me the ack to sync to auckland again
[12:15] <mdz> amU: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[12:15] <elmo> kamion: yeah, I'm setting up releases on another machine sorry
[12:15] <Kamion> that's OK, just letting mdz know the status
[12:17] <elmo> okay, you're good to sync
[12:18] <elmo> I haven't done releases yet, but I've fixed auckland
[12:18] <Kamion> I'll run through a test sync first
[12:18] <Kamion> should be going now
[12:20] <elmo> "pool"??
[12:20] <Kamion> 22:04 < sabdfl>   - /pool/warty-current-i386.iso
[12:20] <Kamion> open to better names?
[12:20] <sabdfl> elmo: great ideas show up in the oddest places :-)
[12:21] <Kamion> it *is* a bit, er, conflated
[12:21] <sabdfl> .pool might be more sekrit
[12:21] <mdz> .dpwh/pool
[12:21] <Kamion> dpwh?
[12:21] <sabdfl> dpwh?
[12:21] <mdz> kids these days...
[12:21] <sabdfl> don't put warty here?
[12:21] <mdz> "don't put warez here"
[12:21] <elmo> well, err, like, why have a pool?  the point of pool is to handle things (.deb's, .iso's) which appear in multiple things (suites/releases/whatever)
[12:21] <elmo> and we don't seem to do that with ISOs really?
[12:21] <sabdfl> elmo: this is a place to put the "current" release so rsync's work well
[12:21] <mdz> we do when we decide we want a different layout :-)
[12:22] <mdz> put everything into the pool once, and symlink into the layout du jour
[12:22] <sabdfl> the symblinks give them a meaningful name, depending on where they are in the release cycle
[12:22] <Kamion> elmo: main issue we have is calling the ISOs warty-sounder9-install-i386.iso to keep sabdfl happy as above, while not screwing over mirrors completely on every update if the delta is small
[12:22] <elmo> err, ok
[12:22] <sabdfl> it's because (a) i want real names for the files ("warty-sounder9-i386.iso") and (b) kamion wants names that don't change for sensible mirroring
[12:23] <sabdfl> if we can have a .dpwh dir which is larely hidden that makes me even happier
[12:23] <sabdfl> less confusion
[12:24] <Kamion> anyway, I imagine I can kick off the CD builds now?
[12:24] <Kamion> no artwork, so this can't be final
[12:24] <mdz> jdub_: artwork status?
[12:24] <sabdfl> jdub was around...
[12:24] <Kamion> 22:34  * jdub_ leaves for nsw tender meeting
[12:24] <Kamion> 50 minutes ago
[12:25] <mdz> sabdfl: send the artwork to me and I'll do it
[12:25] <sabdfl> k, coming up
[12:25] <Kamion> I'll wait
[12:25] <sabdfl> mdz: oh bugger, i don't have the gdm login screen, nor the gnome splash
[12:25] <sabdfl> jdub has those directly from jane / designers
[12:26] <sabdfl> i only have the desktop images
[12:26] <sabdfl> will send the desktop images, with instructions
[12:27] <sabdfl> mdz: i think he's chasing REVENUE! so let's go ahead and catch him when he gets back
[12:27] <elmo> gar, I can't believe we're shipping a distro where fricking paste doesn't work right in vi
[12:28] <sabdfl> elmo: why?
[12:28] <elmo> sabdfl: why doesn't it work, or why can't I believe it it, or ?
[12:28] <mdz> autoindent?
[12:28] <mdz> that is a pretty lame default
[12:29] <elmo> yeah, the autoindent shit
[12:29] <mdz> that should only be enabled for source code
[12:29] <elmo> and anyone who tells me to :set paste is going to get beaten
[12:29] <sabdfl> well, let's get it sane
[12:29] <sabdfl> elmo goes through walls
[12:29] <elmo> yeah, I'll beat them through a wall or two
[12:30] <mdz> Debian ships with the same default in vim
[12:30] <mdz> but they ship a useless vi by default
[12:31] <mdz> nvi is good for pasting and not much else
[12:31] <elmo> meh, it's absolutely fine for non-hardcore or oldschool vi folks
[12:32] <mdz> the sort of "oldschool" that means you still use ksh
[12:32] <thom> elmo: paste works fine in nano *duck*
[12:32] <sabdfl> ok, can we fix this to a sane default?
[12:32] <mdz> sabdfl: _now_? :-)
[12:32] <Kamion> hoary
[12:32] <sabdfl> is it not trivial?
[12:32] <mdz> it is trivial to change
[12:32] <mdz> it is non-trivial to decide whether the change is the right thing to do
[12:33] <Kamion> it's not a really painful badness
[12:33] <Kamion> vim still works fine ...
[12:33] <mdz> (except for elmo)
[12:33] <Kamion> it requires testing in compatible mode, etc.
[12:33] <sabdfl> mdz: you, elmo, kamion, do you all agree on a sane default?
[12:33] <mdz> elmo: you could upload that change as your uber-secret easter egg without telling us
[12:33] <elmo> sabdfl: I was just whining - it's not worth a zeroth-hour change
[12:33] <sabdfl> ok
[12:33] <Kamion> sabdfl: I'm not convinced we do; I think vi should set paste or noai or whatever only in compatible mode
[12:34] <thom> hey, yeah. what happened to the easter egg
[12:34] <elmo> thom: figlet got demoted to universe :-P
[12:34] <Kamion> elmo, I suspect, disagrees here
[12:34] <thom> Kamion: i tend to agree
[12:34] <thom> elmo: lame easter egg :P
[12:34] <elmo> thom: dude, it was going to be cowsay'ed figleted init.d startup scripts
[12:34] <mdz> elmo: figlet turned out to be not-necessarily-redistributable
[12:35] <thom> elmo: sick puppy :-)
[12:35] <elmo> I dare you not to be freaked out when your computer starts up and starts shouting at you from a speech bubble of a cow 
[12:35] <Kamion> dunno about the cowsay, but figlet-on-failure would rock :-)
[12:35] <sabdfl> mdz: desktop images on the way
[12:35] <elmo> mdz: yeah, I know
[12:35] <sabdfl> i still vote for the very rare but random warthogs noises
[12:35] <thom> yeah, forget this orange crap
[12:35] <sabdfl> like, once in three years rare
[12:36] <sabdfl> orange
[12:36] <thom> lets have FAILED take up the whole screen
[12:36] <Kamion> that's like the old GNOME fish :)
[12:36] <Kamion> appeared roughly once a month
[12:36] <sabdfl> we should make our's really, really rare
[12:36] <sabdfl> so it's a badge of honour to have heard the hog
[12:36] <sabdfl> and it only lasts for, say 10 seconds
[12:36] <sabdfl> quite quiet
[12:37] <sabdfl> ooohhhh
[12:38] <Kamion> (incidentally, why is all the init script stuff in /lib/lsb/init-functions rather than somewhere in /etc where you can actually configure it?)
[12:38] <elmo> hey, speaking of sounds, are we going to get a "Hi, my name is Mark Shuttleworth, and I pronounce Ubuntu Uh-Boon-To" on the website? :)
[12:38] <amU> :) 
[12:38] <sivang> just like linus torvalds did?
[12:38] <sivang> :)
[12:39] <mdz> sabdfl: err
[12:39] <mdz> sabdfl: are you sure you want to use JPEGs?
[12:39] <mdz> rather than PNG?
[12:39] <Kamion> elmo: Matthew Vernon wishes to convey a remote slap with a trout for the cowsay-figlet idea
[12:39] <sivang> JEPS are evil
[12:39] <sivang> JPEG
[12:39] <sabdfl> mdz: alternatives?
[12:39] <mdz> sabdfl: PNG
[12:39] <sabdfl> i have high-res versions here
[12:39] <sivang> PNG! PNG! :)
[12:39] <sabdfl> can you do a quick check and see how big the png is?
[12:40] <mdz> how?
[12:40] <sabdfl> sivang: it's got fades and stuff, i though png might be too big
[12:40] <mdz> they're compressed; I can't tell without a copy of the real image
[12:40] <sabdfl> fire up gimp, open the image, save a copy, png
[12:40] <mdz> that won't be the same
[12:40] <elmo> we're down to one uninstallable, zero out of date
[12:40] <mdz> it's been through jpeg compression and a smoothing filter
[12:40] <mdz> elmo: what's the uninstallable?
[12:41] <elmo> mozilla-firefox-locale-gl
[12:41] <mdz> but I'll do it as an estimate
[12:41] <sabdfl> i just started a gradient on a big widescreen background to try to get you widescreen desktops too
[12:41] <sabdfl> grabs the X totally, can't stop it or switch away
[12:41] <sabdfl> for about 90 minutes
[12:41] <mdz> sabdfl: a bit under a meg
[12:42] <sivang> sabdfl : oh, maybe color depth reduction/
[12:42] <sabdfl> let me see a sec...
[12:42] <Kamion> shall we just drop -gl?
[12:42] <Keybuk> sabdfl: any particular reason why we don't just make the background an alpha PNG and use nautilus' inbuilt desktop gradient feature to do that
[12:42] <thom> elmo: please remove it, i don't even know where gl is, let alone how to find firefox l10n for it
[12:42] <mdz> agreed
[12:43] <mdz> elmo: I'll remove it from the seed
[12:43] <sabdfl> Keybuk: it's not an easy gradient
[12:43] <elmo> it's gone
[12:43] <sabdfl> we can get fancier for hoary, with png alpha overlays on solid desktops etc
[12:43] <Keybuk> sabdfl: it's not just a horizontal or vertical one?
[12:43] <sabdfl> ok, hold on a sec
[12:43] <sabdfl> Keybuk: no
[12:44] <sabdfl> its a blend of several radial and horizontal ones at different angles with different opacities
[12:44] <doko> thom: it's your last european colony ;-)
[12:44] <Kamion> it only occurred to me today that it was inappropriate
[12:44] <mdz> all pointing to warty, I suppose?
[12:44] <elmo> oh yes, do we want stable in the archive yet, or only for final ?
[12:44] <Kamion> all pointing to warty
[12:45] <Kamion> I wouldn't like to swear that d-i is not relying on one of them
[12:45] <amU> *nickdetection* ;)
[12:45] <Kamion> I don't *think* it is, but now is not the time to mess - should have noticed last week
[12:45] <mdz> amU: you need to match on word boundaries :-P
[12:45] <sabdfl> ok, for png export from gimp
[12:46] <sabdfl> does compression mean it's lossy?
[12:46] <mdz> no
[12:46] <mdz> set compression to max
[12:46] <doko> thom: sorry, GI is Gibraltar, GL is Greenland, maybe no Ubuntu users there ...
[12:46] <Kamion> doko: gl is Galician, not Gibraltar or whatever, if that's what you're thinking
[12:46] <mdz> doko: language, not country
[12:46] <sabdfl> interlacing?
[12:46] <mdz> no
[12:47] <sabdfl> we wait
[12:47] <doko> I see ...
[12:47] <sabdfl> we wait
[12:47] <Kamion> oh, CRAP
[12:47] <sabdfl> we wait....
[12:47] <mdz> Kamion: don't say that...
[12:47] <elmo> we all panic...
[12:47] <Kamion> I need to upload debootstrap to remove pcmcia-cs
[12:47] <mdz> Kamion: !!
[12:47] <sabdfl> Kamion: Can't Really Answer Properly?
[12:47] <mdz> I thought that was done weeks ago
[12:47] <mdz> we can't do that now
[12:47] <Kamion> so did I
[12:48] <mdz> that means the automatic installation of pcmcia-cs is untested (in our environment anyway)
[12:48] <Kamion> I've tested it in our environment ...
[12:48] <sabdfl> comes out at 1.1MB, vs 360kb for the JPG
[12:48] <sabdfl> can ship either, your call
[12:49] <mdz> PNG, no question
[12:49] <Kamion> mdz: how severe was that bug again?
[12:49] <mdz> we have the space on the CD, and millions of ubuntu users will thank us
[12:49] <Kamion> it'll need to be reopened
[12:49] <sabdfl> ok, will render them now
[12:49] <mdz> Kamion: that bug was not as bad as risking pcmcia-cs being missing for a much larger class of users
[12:49] <Kamion> all right then, sorry for this :(
[12:50] <mdz> though, the workaround is worse for the dell bug
[12:50] <Kamion> that's the only discrepancy FWIW
[12:50] <mdz> it stops the machine from booting
[12:50] <mdz> whereas if pcmcia-cs is not installed for some reason, the user can just install it
[12:50] <Kamion> it's only bad for machines with both a PCMCIA network card and a PCMCIA CD-ROM, and I'd suggest those are very rare
[12:51] <Kamion> (or no networking, I suppose)
[12:51] <mdz> ok, let's take it out of debootstrap
[12:51] <elmo> okay, releases.ubuntu.com is up
[12:52] <elmo> Kamion: can you also trigger archvsync@mirnyy.ubuntu.com pls ?
[12:55] <doko> for hoary, do we want python everywhere?  see the embeddedpython builtin for bash ;-) http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#bash
[12:55] <Kamion> elmo: same key?
[12:55] <elmo> Kamion: yep
[12:57] <Kamion> elmo: bash: line 1: /home/archvsync/releasessync: Permission denied
[12:57] <elmo> heh
[12:57] <sabdfl> schnake!
[12:57] <elmo> Kamion: fixed, I think
[12:58] <Kamion> elmo: done
[12:58] <elmo> kamion: cool, working
[12:58] <Kamion> sabdfl: nonexecutable python doesn't work well either :)
[12:58] <sabdfl> mdz: images incoming
[12:58] <sivang> sabdfl : could you let me know when you have the final offline page? i'd like to see how is came up.
[12:59] <elmo> Kamion: he was talking about doko's stuff :)
[12:59] <sabdfl> sivang: jdub is away for the moment
[12:59] <mdz> sabdfl: I might have an email size limit somewhere upstream of me, we'll see
[01:00] <Kamion> elmo: ah :)
[01:01] <sivang> sabdfl : ok.
[01:02] <sabdfl> sivang, maybe send me what you sent jdub
[01:03] <mdz> sabdfl: hasn't come through
[01:03] <sabdfl> s'gawn from here
[01:04] <mdz> aha, finally arrived
[01:04] <sabdfl> wow, check the size of the flat one vs the gradients
[01:05] <elmo> so, err, someone remind me of the timetable, pls?  need to plan for sleep (or lack thereof)
[01:05] <sabdfl> though these gradients are pretty slick
[01:05] <Kamion> fortunately debootstrap-udeb is not in the d-i initrds
[01:05] <sabdfl> elmo, if you are roughly done, now would be a good time to crash while we test the RC build
[01:05] <sabdfl> mdz, that ok by you?
[01:06] <mdz> sabdfl: yes
[01:08] <Kamion> elmo: can I just bother you to hurry this debootstrap upload through incoming, if that's possible?
[01:09] <Kamion> it was delayed a bit because I had to update my scripts to look at restricted, so as to make sure there was nothing else missing
[01:09] <sabdfl> guys, let's change as little as possible.
[01:09] <sabdfl> it's late here, and this is serious "whoops" material
[01:10] <sabdfl> especially if mdz goes on his intended "final release" jihad
[01:10] <mdz> sabdfl: what should the descriptions be for these images in the wallpaper selector?
[01:11] <sabdfl> "hard core" and "soft core"?
[01:11] <elmo> what final release jihad?
[01:11] <sabdfl> as in "you thought this was a rc, muahaha"
[01:11] <elmo> you mean mdz's in on that crack too?
[01:11] <sabdfl> he's baking it, actually
[01:11] <pitti> wasn't he the one who proposed it?
[01:12] <elmo> doh.
[01:12] <sabdfl> wel... why not
[01:12] <elmo> because we've been uploading packages throughout the day that have received, like, zero testing?
[01:12] <sabdfl> kamion: remember that comment about distributing this "to too many people to be embarrased about it"?
[01:12] <sabdfl> speling aside?
[01:13] <Kamion> sabdfl: sure, but as discussed with mdz above the result of not doing this is more embarrassing than the consequences if it goes wrong
[01:13] <mdz> sabdfl: but seriously, where it currently says "Ubuntu Watermark" for the current image, what should these say?
[01:13] <mdz> Kamion: (we hope)
[01:14] <sabdfl> mdz: "Ubuntu Default Desktop" for the one with the logo on the gradient
[01:14] <sabdfl> "Ubuntu Simple Desktop" for the one without the gradient, just flat colour with logo
[01:14] <sivang> sabdfl : just got a very good email from enrico, we are going to rock ubuntu's docs :) Will send you draft also breifly.
[01:14] <sabdfl> "No Wallpaper" for the one with.... no wallpaper
[01:15] <elmo> gar, contents generation is so unbelievably expensive
[01:15] <sabdfl> sivang excellent, thanks for your work on the wiki, i think the two of you will work well together
[01:15] <sabdfl> umm...
[01:16] <sabdfl> "Ubuntu Calendar Grrrlllls".... no, wait
[01:16] <sabdfl> "Ubuntu Calendar Desktop" for the threesome
[01:16] <sabdfl> just need a name for the one with the gradient but nothing else
[01:18] <sabdfl> "Ubuntu Master Desktop"?
[01:19] <sabdfl> mdz: ^^ all done
[01:19] <sabdfl> hmm.... maybe "Reference" instead of "Master"?
[01:19] <mdz> "plain"?
[01:20] <mdz> sabdfl: should there be an entry for this month's calendar image itself, apart from the rotating one which we'll update?
[01:21] <Keybuk> mdz: yes, there has to be, otherwise it doesn't work
[01:21] <mdz> "Ubuntu October Calendar"?
[01:21] <sabdfl> Then we have "plain" and "simple" :-)
[01:21] <mdz> Keybuk: really, why?
[01:21] <Keybuk> the calendar image itself is a symlink to whatever month is current
[01:21] <sabdfl> ah, ok
[01:21] <sabdfl> so we need "Ubuntu Monthly Calendar"
[01:21] <mdz> Keybuk: does it read the symlink or something?
[01:21] <Keybuk> mdz: this stuff gets copied into the user's .gnome2 directory -- so if you change it every month, they don't get new montly images, just new available images
[01:22] <sabdfl> and "Ubuntu October Calendar"
[01:22] <Keybuk> so you need one "Monthly Calendar" image that changes; but it has to be a symlink, otherwise it'll get cached and not updated :)
[01:22] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, I know
[01:22] <mdz> I'm talking about the menu
[01:22] <Keybuk> so am I :)
[01:22] <mdz> you're telling me there has to be an entry in the menu pointing to foo-bar.png in addition to the one pointing to ubuntu-calendar.png?
[01:22] <Keybuk> also sometimes users simply aren't going to like the new month, so they should be able to nail it at a past image they liked
[01:22] <Keybuk> mdz: yes.
[01:23] <mdz> that makes no sense to me
[01:23] <mdz> but we want one anyway
[01:23] <Keybuk> ah, sorry, there doesn't *have* to be an XML entry -- the monthly is enough provided it's a symlink
[01:23] <Keybuk> and provided the destination of the symlink changes each month
[01:24] <Keybuk> but we want one anyway, so they can stick an old month they liked
[01:24] <lamont> moo
[01:25] <mdz> sabdfl: what did you say you wanted the gradient-only one called?
[01:25] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, that's what I thought
[01:25] <sabdfl> "Plain" would be fine
[01:27] <sabdfl> mdz: we still need gdm and gnome splash
[01:27] <sabdfl> gdm has me concerned as a straight droping, but I suppose we can test lots of resolutions on any given desktop
[01:27] <sabdfl> dropin
[01:27] <pitti> Can anybody tell me when the CD images will be ready approximately? Is it worth to stay awake for them for last-minute testing?
[01:29] <mdz> it is so wrong that ubuntu-artwork uses cdbs
[01:29] <Keybuk> blame jdub
[01:29] <mdz> this "no wallpaper" option should have been added a long time ago
[01:29] <mdz> it has to be done completely differently from the PNGs
[01:29] <Keybuk> No Wallpaper ?
[01:30] <Keybuk> that's built-in to GNOME
[01:31] <sabdfl> pitti: rather crash and be up early if you can!
[01:31] <sabdfl> there will be reports from users for you to review
[01:31] <Keybuk> mdz: remember, you need to change $(THIS_MONTH) at the top of art/wallpapers/Makefile.am
[01:31] <pitti> sabdfl: okay, I thought the images were ready by 2300 UTC :-)
[01:31] <mdz> sabdfl: keep the existing watermark image in the list also, or remove it?
[01:32] <mdz> I assume we have to keep the file, because people are using it for their background
[01:32] <sabdfl> mdz: remove
[01:32] <mdz> Keybuk: did
[01:32] <Keybuk> sabdfl: that'll vanish strangely for people who've used Preview though?
[01:33] <Keybuk> actually, given we shipped Preview with "Monthly Calendar" as the default -- it won't -- it'll get replaced with the threesome
[01:33] <sabdfl> awesome :-)
[01:33] <Kamion> "threesome"? dare I ask? :)
[01:34] <mdz> sabdfl: is that "stretched" or "scaled"?
[01:34] <Kamion> pitti: sorry :-(
[01:34] <mdz> I think "scaled"
[01:34] <mdz> the existing stuff is all "centered"
[01:34] <mdz> this is a bit crazy to be changing at this point
[01:34] <Keybuk> hmm... ok, my new user just didn't get any session :-/  gah
[01:35] <Keybuk> at least, no panel setup
[01:35] <Keybuk> weird
[01:35] <pitti> Kamion: np, planning means to exchange coincidence by mistake :-)
[01:36] <pitti> I'm looking forward to test the images tomorrow; today's were very good
[01:36] <Keybuk> ahh, I wonder whether this is related to this morning's gconf problem
[01:36] <sivang> sabdfl : sent
[01:37] <sabdfl> mdz: stretched i think
[01:38] <sabdfl> scaled will give weirdness on widescreen
[01:38] <mdz> sabdfl: I assume "scaled" preserves aspect ratio
[01:38] <Keybuk> yes :o)  I needed to import panel-default-setup.entries after I'd nuked gconf's defaults
[01:38] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah
[01:38] <sabdfl> mdz: yes, but these iamges won't look *that* bad on widescreen
[01:38] <Keybuk> stretched doesn't
[01:38] <sabdfl> and I'm working on some widescreen png's for you
[01:38] <sabdfl> at least, my pc is working on them 
[01:39] <sabdfl> Keybuk: so, are we ok?
[01:40] <mdz> gnome-background-properties crashes now
[01:40] <Keybuk> gah ... it looks like seb's dropped the patch
[01:40] <seb128> which patch ?
[01:40] <Keybuk> to the desktop properties stuff
[01:41] <mdz> sabdfl: the text will look moderately bad, and the people will look worse
[01:41] <Keybuk> hmm, no, I'm just being stupid
[01:41] <Keybuk> after explaining to mdz why it had to be a symlink, I changed the filename :p
[01:42] <sabdfl> the scaled image will give very ugly lines
[01:42] <sabdfl> so let's go stretched
[01:42] <sabdfl> widescreen guys will immediately go to change it
[01:42] <sabdfl> i've got 1600x900 versions under way
[01:43] <Keybuk> sabdfl: yup, confirmed
[01:43] <sabdfl> confirmed we are ok?
[01:44] <Keybuk> it'll be centered though, because that's how we shipped Preview
[01:44] <sabdfl> hmm... pity
[01:44] <sabdfl> it won't pick up the new setting?
[01:45] <Keybuk> no, golden rule, remember -- it doesn't override it because it doesn't know the old setting, so doesn't know whether the user had changed it
[01:47] <sabdfl> gotcha
[01:48] <sabdfl> thought the old setting was in a system pref somewhere, so if the user hadn't changed it, we could update it
[01:48] <Keybuk> nah, this stuff is done by copying xml files about :(  it's not gconf
[01:49] <Keybuk> oh, wait
[01:51] <mdz> ok, this isn't working correctly at all
[01:51] <Keybuk> mdz: what's not working?
[01:52] <mdz> Keybuk: built new ubuntu-artwork, installed on a clean system, the preview images show up in the selector, but it never changes the background
[01:52] <Keybuk> you click, and nothing happens?
[01:52] <mdz> exactly
[01:53] <mdz> nothing in xsession-errors either
[01:53] <Keybuk> kill nautilus
[01:53] <mdz> it works fine on my other machine where I did my tests
[01:53] <mdz> but I've copied things around and deleted ~/.gnome2/background* etc.
[01:53] <Keybuk> yah, it's a long-standing bug somewhere between nautilus, gconf and control-center
[01:53] <Keybuk> similar to the "I added an applet and it didn't appear" one
[01:53] <mdz> killing nautilus fixed that particular weirdness
[01:54] <mdz> ok, we'll just add "killall nautilus" to the release notes :-P
[01:54] <Keybuk> mdz: it's very very very very rare; and entirely unrelated to our voodoo here
[01:54] <sabdfl> Keybuk: scott@netsplit.org right?
[01:54] <mdz> ok
[01:54] <Keybuk> it just happens that every now and then, nautilus and the control-center wallpaper properties dialog loose sync
[01:54] <mdz> so I have a new libgnome which changes the default solid colour
[01:54] <Keybuk> sabdfl: netsplit.com
[01:54] <mdz> I have a new ubuntu-artwork with the new wallpaper
[01:54] <Keybuk> or just scott@canonical.com :)
[01:54] <mdz> I need gdm stuff
[01:55] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm contemplating a trick to make the Previewers upgrade their imagery <g>
[01:55] <mdz> gdm and gnome splash
[01:55] <Kamion> 'pkill nautilus', puhlease :-)
[01:55] <mdz> sabdfl: do we have those?
[01:55] <sabdfl> mdz no, jdub does though
[01:56] <sabdfl> i think jane sent them straight through to him, i didn't see them
[01:56] <mdz> sabdfl: what shall we do?
[01:56] <mdz> jane and jeff are the only people with copies?
[01:56] <sabdfl> yes
[01:56] <sabdfl> if that's the sole change we can make it tomorrow morning
[01:57] <sabdfl> jdub must be back soon
[01:57] <sabdfl> mdz: patience, we need
[01:57] <sabdfl> release, we will
[01:58] <mdz> uploaded
[01:58] <mdz> uploadING, I should say.  ubuntu-artwork will take a bit
[01:59] <Keybuk> so what do we want to do about the watermark?
[01:59] <Keybuk> do we mind that upgraders will get the threesome, but centered and not scaled ?
[02:00] <sabdfl> Keybuk: its ok
[02:00] <mdz> this is one of those things that jdub and I meant when we said we needed this stuff earlier
[02:01] <mdz> Keybuk: we could add a sed one-liner to UpgradeNotes :-)
[02:01] <Keybuk> mdz: or we could just change the default gconf schema <g>
[02:01] <Keybuk> which you'll have had to do anyway to make the threesome not the default
[02:01] <mdz> the calendar was the default?
[02:01] <mdz> hmm, didn't change that
[02:01] <Keybuk> yes
[02:01] <mdz> will do
[02:02] <Keybuk> I'd forgotten, the default has absolutely *nothing* to do with the XML
[02:02] <Keybuk> if the first time they open that dialog, the default doesn't have an XML entry, their background vanishes
[02:03] <Keybuk> if we change the gconf defaults (which we need to do anyway)
[02:03] <Keybuk> preview users who never touched the background dialog will change to the plain/simple whatever image
[02:04] <Keybuk> preview users who touched the background dialog will either keep their changes, or if they left it at Calendar, change to the threesome but centered (they can then change that if they want)
[02:04] <Keybuk> which seems good enough for me
[02:06] <sabdfl> night all, i'm crashing, back in about 7 hrs
[02:12] <sivang> mdz faints? getoutta here!
[02:12] <sivang> :)
[02:13] <mdz> Keybuk: is debian/patches/01_default_background.patch at all relevant?
[02:13] <mdz> I've already changed 06_ubuntu_theme.patch
[02:14] <Keybuk> yeah
[02:14] <mdz> yeah, it's relevant?
[02:14] <Keybuk> of libgnome ?
[02:14] <mdz> yes
[02:14] <elmo> I'm going to crash for a bit too - phone's on if you need me (or shout in the next couple of minutes)
[02:14] <Keybuk> *checks*
[02:15] <Keybuk> nah, that's the old Debian one
[02:15] <Keybuk> ignore it
[02:15] <lamont> bad libgnome
[02:15] <Keybuk> 06_ubuntu-theme is the right one
[02:15] <mdz> ok
[02:15] <lamont> libgnome_2.8.0-0ubuntu4 ftbfs
[02:15] <lamont> Trying patch debian/patches/03_gnome-terminal.patch at level
[02:15] <lamont> +0...1...2...failure.
[02:15] <lamont> or did that get fixed already?
[02:16] <mdz> Keybuk: want to look over this before I upload it?
[02:16] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, dcc the patch and I'll check it
[02:16] <mdz> who what?
[02:16] <Keybuk> libgnome-2.8.0/debian/patches/06_ubuntu-theme.patch
[02:17] <mdz> added a new patch as well
[02:17] <Keybuk> oh, right
[02:17] <Keybuk> ok
[02:17] <mdz> debdiff emailed
[02:18] <Keybuk> and in ubuntu-artwork there's an XML entry for /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png which is 'stretched' ?
[02:19] <mdz>   <wallpaper>
[02:19] <mdz>     <_name>Ubuntu Default Desktop</_name>
[02:19] <mdz>     <filename>/usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png</filename>
[02:19] <mdz>     <options>stretched</options>
[02:19] <mdz>   </wallpaper>
[02:19] <Keybuk> looks good to me then
[02:19] <mdz> ok, uploading
[02:24] <mdz> sivang: you don't need to threaten to revert to Debian for you bug report to get attention; we read all of them
[02:24] <Kamion> elmo: I'm moving pool to .pool now, seems least controversial
[02:26] <mdz> he's snoozing
[02:26] <Kamion> yeah, but he'll see when he wakes up
[02:27] <mdz> just mentioning it in case you missed his departure
[02:28] <Kamion> odd, my sync to releases doesn't appear to be taking effect
[02:30] <sivang> mdz : I didn't mean this to sound like a threat. Would have never dreamed to impose a such  - I just said I am considering to switch back to debian in order to get over the "bug" to allow me to continue work. :) However if this was understood as a threat - My apologies. I greatly appriciate the truely amazing work done on Ubuntu and might have got out of line unintentionally , will you excuse me?
[02:30] <Kamion> mdz: so am I just waiting for libgnome and ubuntu-desktop now?
[02:31] <Kamion> er, ubuntu-artwork
[02:32] <mdz> sivang: no problem, a lot of people seem to be doing that recently and it is getting to me
[02:32] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[02:32] <mdz> with any luck, they're building now
[02:32] <mdz> lamont: ?
[02:32] <lamont> which package?
[02:32] <lamont> libgnome_2.8.0-0ubuntu4 is ftbfs
[02:32] <mdz> lamont: ubuntu5
[02:33] <lifeless> sivang: I'm curious - what bug is it?
[02:33] <mdz> lifeless: 2315
[02:34] <lamont> mdz: w-b still shows ubuntu4. give it another minute or2
[02:34] <mdz> -rw-rw----    1 mdz      mdz           315 2004-10-12 17:19 libgnome_2.8.0-0ubuntu5_source.upload
[02:34] <lamont> mdz: on a different note, does AM_MAINTAINER_MODE take any args, or is it just ^AM_MAINTAINER_MODE$?
[02:34] <mdz> lamont: that's it
[02:35] <Kamion> no documented arguments
[02:36] <Keybuk> lamont: just AM_MAINTAINER_MODE
[02:36] <Kamion> you could in theory use arguments, I think, but they'd be ignored
[02:36] <Kamion> and it's probably broken to try to do so
[02:36] <lifeless> tasty bug there.
[02:36] <Keybuk> uh, it'd probably expand to <contents of AM_MAINTAINER_MODE> (ARG1, ARG2)
[02:36] <sivang> mdz : I fell inlove with Ubuntu the first day I layed hand on , I want to be proud of it on my laptop :) let me _whatever_ more info you need for this bug and don't hesitate to ask me to test quirks you have in mind for investigation.
[02:36] <Kamion> Keybuk: would it? oh
[02:37] <Kamion> Keybuk: how does m4 know?
[02:37] <lifeless> why macro languages are not always good, or why m4 was the wrong choice
[02:37] <mdz> sivang: you tried each of those parameters by itself, alone, with none of the others?
[02:38] <Keybuk> Kamion: dunno, trying to remember how m4sugar treats that kind of thing
[02:39] <Keybuk> don't give it arguments, anyway :)
[02:39] <Keybuk> AM_MAINTAINER_MODE(AC_PROG_CC) ... would that expand AC_PROG_CC and therefore do checks for compilers? :p  (I *think* it would)
[02:39] <Kamion> probably
[02:40] <lifeless> Keybuk: 
[02:40] <lifeless> bah
[02:40] <Kamion> hm, no, m4 is expand-then-evaluate surely
[02:41] <Kamion> oh, no, arguments are collected and expanded before macro expansion
[02:41] <Keybuk> Kamion: ho-ho-ho
[02:41] <Keybuk> cf. the infamous Libtool bug... "if AC_PROG_CXX has been expanded, do AC_LIBTOOL_CXX"
[02:41] <Kamion> my m4 is, how can I put this, rusty
[02:42] <Keybuk> which, of course, expanded AC_LIBTOOL_CXX and its dependencies *anyway*
[02:42] <Kamion> heh
[02:42] <sivang> mdz : yes, acpi=off miraculessly hangs the kernel in random parts. the most advanced part was when detecing HDs
[02:42] <mdz> that makes no sense
[02:42] <mdz> sivang: have you run a memory test?
[02:42] <mdz> sivang: please attach the information requested
[02:43] <sivang> mdz : I know, I have been given this about 3 hours of investigation, trinyg different kernels etc
[02:43] <sivang> mdz : didn't run memory test.
[02:43] <mdz> sivang: did you try the kernel which was working for you under sid?
[02:43] <sivang> mdz : that's a starters..however it kills me to think this 1 year old machine has already corrupted memory
[02:44] <sivang> mdz : I will try that
[02:44] <sivang> mdz : I tried the latest sid, I am not sure which one was that worked. I erased sid for ubuntu :)
[02:44] <sivang> mdz: I don't have any notes , I went unnoticed since everything was working fine
[02:45] <sivang> mdz : on debian unstable , that is
[02:45] <sivang> mdz : pitti suggested 2.6.7 , lastest what do you think?
[02:46] <sivang> lastest = latest
[02:47] <sivang> mdz : I am now on 2.6.8.1-3-686-smp, it gives me very slighttly better performance as a temporary workaround.
[02:49] <Keybuk> PCI: Cannot allocate resource region 4 of device 0000:00:1d.2
[02:49] <Keybuk> ^ is it me, or does that appear on every Ubuntu kernel
[02:50] <lamont> libgnome, ubuntu-artwork uploaded for i386, I expect the others have to
[02:50] <lamont> o
[02:51] <Keybuk> sivang: randomly, if you run top is anything hogging CPU ?
[02:51] <sivang> let's check
[02:52] <sivang> mostly XFree86 but it switches places with gnome-termina and idle init
[02:52] <mdz> can you guys take this discussion to #ubuntu?
[02:52] <sivang> so guess it's normal
[02:52] <sivang> anyway, I have to hit bed now
[02:52] <mdz> releasing to do, and all that
[02:52] <sivang> night all
[02:53] <Keybuk> 2.6.8 and laptops definitely doesn't seem to be friends :-/
[02:55] <mdz> lamont: when will they be in the archive, so Kamion can build a CD?
[02:56] <Kamion> seven minutes from now I'd imagine
[03:08] <hornbeck> 2.6.8 works great on my laptop
[03:08] <hornbeck> Inspiron 600m
[03:10] <Keybuk> hornbeck: yeah, seems randomly odd;  it seems that it just won't boot/work on any modern HP for example
[03:10] <Kamion> building
[03:10] <hornbeck> hmmm, I will have to grab a HP and try it out
[03:11] <Keybuk> though that's an acpi problem, it won't switch on the fans so your laptop overheats
[03:11] <hornbeck> man that is crap
[03:11] <hornbeck> I used to use a compaq and it always had problems
[03:17] <mdz> Kamion: let me know when I should start my rsync
[03:19] <Kamion> mdz: jigdo-file isn't quick, I'm watching the log file
[03:22] <Kamion> mdz: note that the images are now called warty-install-amd64.iso, etc.
[03:22] <Kamion> (to distinguish from live)
[03:24] <mdz> Kamion: same directory, though?
[03:24] <Kamion> yes
[03:25] <lamont> mdz/Kamion: they made it, I assume?
[03:25] <Kamion> lamont: yep, I checked
[03:25] <lamont> kewlness
[03:31] <Kamion> bugger, it broke
[03:32] <mdz> sweet
[03:32] <Kamion> investigating
[03:32] <mdz> off to a roaring start, then :-)
[03:32] <Kamion> oh, probably just recent publish-daily changes
[03:33] <Kamion> gah, BLOODY tla
[03:34] <Kamion> its conflict handling SUCKS ARSE
[03:37] <Kamion> mdz: anyway, it's up now, have at it
[03:37] <Kamion> I'll announce to ubuntu-users as soon as a few of us have had a brief go at it
[03:43] <lamont> Bad, bad server. No donut for you
[03:43] <lamont> hehe
[03:45] <Kamion> geez, 9K/s?
[03:45] <Kamion> should've grabbed it myself before telling you lot :P
[03:54] <mdz> lamont: downloading ISOs?
[03:55] <lamont> mdz: url? :-(
[03:56] <lamont> mind you, it'll take about a day or two unless I head into town, which I was avoiding until later...
[03:59] <Kamion> lamont: daily/current/
[04:00] <lamont> duh
[04:01] <mdz> we need more people testing this than just Kamion and me
[04:01] <mdz> npmccallum: ping?
[04:03] <Kamion> "testing" a.k.a. still downloading the first one
[04:04] <Kamion>    163062594  28%    8.57kB/s   13:03:56
[04:04] <lamont> Kamion: remind me of the rsync location again?
[04:04] <asw> hi... I'm new. 
[04:06] <Kamion> lamont: archive.ubuntulinux.org::cdimage/daily/current/
[04:06] <Kamion> asw: hi
[04:06] <mdz> burning i386
[04:07] <mdz> Kamion: why such abysmal throughput?
[04:07] <asw> kamion: is wartylog making public logs somewhere?  I wouldn't mind reading logs before I make a complete fool of myself. 
[04:07] <Kamion> laptop test would be good
[04:07] <Kamion> mdz: dunno, it's picked up now
[04:08] <Kamion> asw: I think so, but to tell you the truth I can't remember where
[04:08] <lamont> wow.  only 42 hours to go on the rsync. 
[04:08] <lamont> :=(
[04:08] <lamont> guess it's time to go hijack the neighbor's DSL.
[04:08] <lamont> (for a very liberal definition of 'neighbor')
[04:09] <Kamion> mdz: I'm hoping it's because all the Canonical staff are downloading it too
[04:10] <Kamion> asw: may not be public for historical reasons, bug fabbione :-)
[04:10] <lamont> anybody need anything before I disappear for 30+minutes?
[04:11] <lamont> right.  there go all those excuses....  back online in a bit.
[04:11] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/fabbione.jpg is just alarming
[04:13] <mdz> ARGH
[04:14] <mdz> where is pitti
[04:14] <mdz> mizar:[~]  ls -ld /media/scd0
[04:14] <mdz> d------rwx    1 mdz      mdz            11 1903-12-31 23:00 /media/scd0
[04:14] <mdz> mizar:[~]  mount | grep scd0
[04:14] <mdz> /dev/scd0 on /media/scd0 type hfs (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,sync,umask=007,uid=1000,gid=1000)
[04:16] <Kamion> pmount b0rked?
[04:16] <Kamion> pitti went to bed
[04:17] <Kamion> about two and a half hours ago
[04:18] <asw> that photo of "fabbione" is very interesting. I think I'll just lurk on the mailing lists and if people don't mind in here for a while... 
[04:19] <Kamion> mdz: that would be 0.1-5 from yesterday; but why is umask=007 having that effect?
[04:19] <Kamion> mdz: maybe umask= is broken for hfs?
[04:20] <mdz> Kamion: yes
[04:20] <mdz> Kamion: already filed a bug, fixing it and reopening the other one
[04:21] <Kamion> looks hairy to fix well
[04:23] <mdz> yes, I shouldn't have let that can of worms open
[04:23] <mdz> easy enough to revert, though
[04:29] <mdz> Kamion: the archive-copier progress bar is off
[04:29] <mdz> not a show-stopper, but I remember you noticed it before and thought you fixed it
[04:29] <Kamion> I think I noticed it and then forgot to fix it
[04:29] <Kamion> nobody ever filed a bug
[04:31] <Kamion> damn it, I was colliding with my own daily local mirror update, no wonder it was going slowly
[04:41] <fabbione> morning guys
[04:44] <mdz> Kamion: i386 success
[04:44] <mdz> fabbione: please test the current daily
[04:44] <fabbione> Kamion: why my pic should be "alarming"? ;)
[04:44] <fabbione> mdz: i can't
[04:44] <Kamion> fabbione: I think it's the unshavenness viewed from below :)
[04:44] <fabbione> Kamion: ehehe
[04:44] <mdz> fabbione: why not?
[04:44] <asw> fabbione: are there irc logs for me to read?  I'm new just added myself to the mailing lists...  used GNU/Linux since 1993 programmed in C since the late 80s.  I've been looking for a distribution I could let my parents use. 
[04:44] <fabbione> mdz: see my comments on Stuff Calendar
[04:45] <mdz> Expected downtime between 2 to 5 hours.
[04:45] <fabbione> mdz: read all the others too
[04:45] <fabbione> please
[04:45] <mdz> ok, I did not hear about that until now
[04:46] <fabbione> Hardware capabilities will be reduced to minimum from 9/10 to 16/10. Still able to test and release X, not able to test d-i either in netboot or cd.
[04:46] <fabbione> mdz: i wrote that a long while ago
[04:46] <fabbione> anyway today i am going to test the new adsl line
[04:46] <Kamion> mdz: burning amd64 now
[04:46] <fabbione> mdz: in approx 2 hours and it will take 1 hour or so
[04:46] <mdz> Kamion: i386 success, powerpc going, amd64 about to start
[04:47] <fabbione> mdz: if it works i will move the office and i might be able to do something after downtime
[04:47] <Kamion> mdz: presumably you want me to scratch and rebuild anyway with the new pmount, though
[04:47] <fabbione> mdz: if it doesn't work i will take off tomorrow for the other office site
[04:47] <tseng> yay mono is slowly trickling in
[04:54] <Kamion> mdz: if so, I'd like to do so sooner rather than later, since I'd like to ask ubuntu-users@ for testing
[04:56] <mdz> stage 1 complete on amd64 and powerpc
[04:56] <mdz> Kamion: sure
[05:03] <fabbione> jee guys you write too many emails :-)
[05:04] <justdave> hmm, we got Firefox 0.9.3 back?
[05:06] <Kamion> amd64 success
[05:07] <Kamion> hm, we never fixed that bug where firefox starts up bigger than the space between the two panels?
[05:09] <mdz> powerpc install failed
[05:09] <Kamion> what happened?
[05:09] <mdz> some bad kernel stuff on the screen
[05:09] <mdz> unfortunately I was screwing around plugging and unplugging USB stuff at the time to try to get the KVM wired up
[05:09] <mdz> so it may be tainted
[05:09] <mdz> I got the "problems installing packages" dialog
[05:09] <mdz> and yet no packages were unconfigured
[05:10] <Kamion> that's a bit concerning
[05:10] <Kamion> I'll let you know when powerpc manages to arrive here
[05:11] <Kamion> 51% on i386 download currently
[05:11] <mdz> amd64 hung hard
[05:11] <mdz> going to retry it
[05:11] <mdz> hmm, apparently not; it did a clean acpi soft power off
[05:15] <mdz> ok, restarted amd64 and powerpc
[05:18] <fabbione> asw: welcome to the team...
[05:23] <Kamion> mdz: you know (NOTWARTY), there's not really much point in linux-amd64-* and linux-power* being in restricted
[05:23] <Kamion> mdz: they don't depend on anything in restricted, so they could easily be in main
[05:23] <Kamion> mdz: although I suppose that means they could disappear for some people if we had to move them from main to restricted later
[05:23] <mdz> Kamion: amd64 does, now
[05:24] <mdz> unless I forgot to upload that
[05:24] <Kamion> I think you forgot to upload that
[05:24] <Kamion> "Depends: linux-image-amd64-generic"
[05:24] <mdz> shit, I forgot to upload it
[05:24] <mdz> I even tested it on amd64
[05:25] <Kamion> is somebody writing down the errata here? :)
[05:27] <justdave> I'm about 80% on the ppc download
[05:27] <justdave> says 10 minutes left
[05:28] <Kamion> trying a German i386 install now
[05:29] <mdz> Kamion: amd64 successful
[05:29] <mdz> Kamion: yes, I am
[05:29] <Kamion> pcmcia-cs is being correctly installed on this laptop
[05:30] <Kamion> new CDs with new pmount coming up in half an hour or so
[05:32] <mdz> Kamion: here as well
[05:33] <asw> fabbione: thanks. I'm downloading the livecd.  I want to try it on the cheapest laptop I can get that does hardware accelerated OpenGL. My msc (cs) / phd (biophysics) project is a new alife simulator using the seti@home infrastructure (will be opensource again in January.) I would love to see it working out of the box on ubuntu
[05:34] <fabbione> asw: sounds cool...
[05:35] <asw> not much to look at but the first cut of the "ecology" is online at http://science.fiction.org 
[05:35] <fabbione> or so..
[05:35] <mdz> Kamion: powerpc has a problem
[05:35] <mdz> libgphoto2-port0 failed for some reason
[05:35] <mdz> it's still configuring other stuff, so I don't yet know what went wrong
[05:36] <Kamion> mdz: package ordering problem?
[05:36] <mdz> dunno
[05:36] <Kamion> mdz: I've seen this from time to time; apt randomly decides to stick libgphoto2-port0 and gphoto2 in different dpkg runs, I think
[05:36] <mdz> Kamion: there should only be one dpkg run
[05:36] <Kamion> well, it's not randomly, it's deterministic for a given CD
[05:37] <asw> at the moment are you guys only accepting packages already in debian? 
[05:37] <Kamion> when I've seen it before, it has gone away in subsequent CDs with no relevant package changes
[05:37] <asw> (I realize this may be the wrong place to ask...) 
[05:37] <mdz> asw: we are not accepting much of anything right now; we're trying to build a release candidate
[05:37] <fabbione> asw: no. but there will be no new packages until the 21st of Oct.
[05:38] <Kamion> mdz: the problem might be reproducible in debootstrap?
[05:38] <mdz> Kamion: the apt config options for the dpkg command line length and number of args were increased to huge values a while back
[05:38] <mdz> if they're still not big enough for some reason, we should bump them up in base-config
[05:38] <mdz> there are known ordering bugs when dpkg has to be invoked multiple times
[05:38] <asw> mdz: yeah sorry. I shouldn't be bothering you guys.  But I thought I would drop by and say how excited I am to see your project!  I've used the knoppix livecd but competing with novell & redhat requires more ... 
[05:38] <Kamion> what are they? they're not in apt.conf
[05:39] <mdz> Dpkg::MaxArgs and Dpkg::MaxArgBytes
[05:39] <Kamion> mdz: I'm not sure a base-config change in that area is significantly less scary than just changing the numbers in apt, to be honest
[05:39] <Kamion> I mean what are the values
[05:39] <mdz> 350 and 8k
[05:39] <Kamion> that certainly sounds way too small for desktop!
[05:40] <Kamion> hell, there are 596 packages in ubuntu-desktop alone
[05:40] <Kamion> (powerpc)
[05:41] <Kamion> the problem with doing it in base-config is that the apt.conf will stick around on users' systems forever
[05:41] <mdz> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libgphoto2-2:
[05:41] <mdz>  libgphoto2-2 depends on libgphoto2-port0 (>= 2.1.4-6.1ubuntu0); however:
[05:41] <mdz>   Package libgphoto2-port0 is not configured yet.
[05:41] <mdz> dpkg: error processing libgphoto2-2 (--configure):
[05:41] <mdz>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
[05:42] <Kamion> unless we remove it after the installation run, or do it with -o options
[05:42] <mdz> Kamion: aptitude -o
[05:42] <mdz> I suggest we increase to 1024 and 32k
[05:43] <mdz> whether we do it in apt or in base-config
[05:43] <Kamion> the length of all the package names combined for powerpc is 8193 bytes, *just* over 8k
[05:43] <Kamion> perhaps that's tripping it
[05:43] <mdz> it's probably tripping both
[05:43] <asw> btw: are the people writing documentation in this chanel? or elsewhere? I'm working on a little review of x3d/vrml viewers on Debian. 
[05:44] <mdz> Kamion: ok, I'm going to do it in apt
[05:44] <mdz> hmm
[05:44] <mdz> Kamion: actually, I wonder what the maximum safe MaxArgBytes is
[05:44] <mdz> bash supports huge ones
[05:44] <mdz> but I dunno about dash
[05:45] <mdz> dash seems happy enough with 65000
[05:45] <Kamion> I don't know either; I was beginning to lean towards base-config being a safer place at this point for that reason
[05:45] <Kamion> oh, if dash is OK ...
[05:46] <Kamion> asw: asleep, I think
[05:47] <mdz> hmmm
[05:47] <mdz> Kamion: let's do this in base-config
[05:48] <Kamion> aptitude -o is passed through to libapt safely?
[05:48] <mdz> I've never done an apt with a not-purely-numeric native version number
[05:48] <mdz> who knows what could break
[05:48] <Kamion> :-)
[05:48] <mdz> oh, wait
[05:48] <mdz> aptitude doesn't actually support -o, does it
[05:48] <mdz> even _synaptic_ suppotrs -o, dammit
[05:48] <Kamion>        -o <key>=<value>
[05:48] <Kamion>               Set  a configuration file option directly; for instance,
[05:48] <Kamion>               use -o Aptitude::Log=/tmp/my-log to log  aptitudes  ac
[05:48] <Kamion>               tions to /tmp/my-log. For more information on configura
[05:48] <Kamion>               tion file options, see the section Configuration  file
[05:48] <Kamion>               reference in the aptitude reference manual.
[05:48] <mdz> where's that?
[05:49] <Kamion> aptitude(8)
[05:49] <mdz> aptitude(1) you mean?
[05:49] <Kamion> bleh!
[05:49] <Kamion> it's aptitude(8) in Debian unstable
[05:49] <mdz> it's not in my copy
[05:49] <Kamion> the version in warty doesn't mention -o
[05:49] <mdz> I don't think it supports it
[05:49] <mdz> I remember it not being there
[05:50] <mdz> the other option is to make this apt 0.5.28 and push that in
[05:50] <Kamion> does it really not support it, or just not document it?
[05:50] <mdz> oh, I could do .27.1
[05:50] <mdz> it doesn't uspport it, just tried
[05:50] <Kamion> I can't even type MaxArgBytes reliably at the moment, I'll take your word for it
[05:52] <mdz> uploading
[05:52] <Kamion> the other option is a temporary apt.conf
[05:52] <Kamion> but that's flaky
[05:52] <Kamion> ah, that was quick :)
[05:52] <mdz> I thought they were bigger than that
[05:52] <Kamion> they?
[05:52] <mdz> maxargs and maxargbytes
[05:53] <mdz> lamont_r: do you have the ability to kick this apt build into happening sooner?
[05:53] <lamont_r> mdz: no
[05:53] <Kamion> mdz: it has to get through the archive and into w-b first, I imagine
[05:54] <lamont_r> Kamion: exactly
[05:54] <lamont_r> mind you, I _could_ potentially violate all that is sacred and build it from a .dsc and upload it, but that would be wrong, and have no effect right now, since I couldn't get that to happen in the next 5.5 minutes
[05:55] <lamont_r> assuming, of course, that you have already uploaded the source, that is.
[05:55] <Kamion> let's not get too hacky at the last minute :)
[05:55] <lamont_r> exactly
[05:55] <Kamion> so, anything *else* before I build RCC3?
[05:55] <lamont_r> the real solution is to have elmo whack the archive crunchers
[05:55] <lamont_r> Kamion: you mean I can abort my 5 hour download and go back home???
[05:56] <Kamion> lamont_r: leave it where it is, the rsync delta will be small
[05:56] <mdz> hmm, just noticed something neat
[05:56] <Kamion> lamont_r: and if you don't care about pmount or powerpc it won't matter anyway ;)
[05:56] <lamont_r> Kamion: where it is is sitting in my car in the rain outside of the closed coffee shop in town... :-(
[05:56] <mdz> if you mount nfs filesystems in fstab, portmap gets started with different options
[05:56] <mdz> so if we have portmap listen on localhost by default, we don't have to fix that
[05:57] <mdz> under other conditions, I would consider that a bug :-)
[05:58] <mdz> lamont_r: closed, but the wireless still works?
[05:58] <mdz> and what's "rain"?
[05:58] <justdave> powerpc image still crashes Disk Utility
[05:59] <Kamion> I think we'll just have to point people at other tools for that, doesn't sound easily fixable
[05:59] <lamont_r> mdz: sure - he just has DSL from the phone company, unmetered.
[05:59] <lamont_r> justdave: if we could find the bit-pattern... :-)
[05:59] <mdz> there's a distinct SEP field around that issue
[06:00] <lamont_r> mdz: rain is when the RH exceeds 100%, and the temp is > 0C. :-)
[06:00] <Kamion> well, if it weren't a proprietary program that's crashing, I might go and look :P
[06:00] <Kamion> "Bitte geben Sie Ihren Benutzernamen ein"
[06:00] <justdave> Kamion: it's not.
[06:00] <Kamion> i386 success auf Deutsch
[06:00] <justdave> hdiutil is part of Darwin
[06:00] <Kamion> justdave: ah, interesting
[06:00] <justdave> (which is the open-source part of OS X)
[06:01] <mdz> "open source"
[06:01] <Kamion> in that case I might go and look when I have Copious Free Time :)
[06:01] <Kamion> viewable source, at least
[06:01] <justdave> mdz: seriously.  you can modify and redistribute. :)  no guarantee of Apple taking your changes back of course :)
[06:01] <justdave> there are forks of Darwin out there
[06:01] <Kamion> justdave: it's not DFSG-free which is pretty much the definition of open source too
[06:02] <Kamion> the APSL has some interesting clauses, as I remember
[06:02] <Kamion> unless those have been fixed
[06:02] <justdave> that could be.  yeah, I've never looked too hard, never had anything worth borrowing from it related to anything I was working on yet to have a need to look at it
[06:02] <mdz> dunno, it's too long for me to read right now
[06:02] <mdz> which is a bad indication in itself
[06:03] <Kamion> I wouldn't have any qualms about looking at the code (Ben Herrenschmidt does, for example); I'd be careful about using code from it directly
[06:03] <mdz> lamont_r: is apt building?
[06:03] <lamont_r> should be within a minute or 2
[06:04] <mdz> I thought :03 was the magic
[06:04] <lamont_r> yeah, it is.
[06:04] <lamont_r> but that takes a minute or so to get i386 w-b updated,
[06:04] <lamont_r> and then one of the 3 buildd's has to finish its 300 second wait (nothing to do), and notice,.
[06:04] <Kamion> seems to take a minute or two extra to sync all the data over sometimes too
[06:06] <Kamion> you know, you'd think cdrecord could check whether the file you've asked it to record actually exists before wasting time spinning up the CD
[06:06] <lamont_r> 0.5.27.1 is building
[06:06] <lamont_r> on i386, at least
[06:06] <thom> Kamion: don't be stupid, that'd be a feature
[06:07] <thom> cdrtool doesn't have any of those
[06:07] <mdz> cdrecord is crap and I am not using it anymore
[06:08] <mdz> I will sooner buy a DVD-ROM drive for anyone I need to burn a disc for
[06:08] <justdave> cdrecord doesn't appear to work on IDE burners, either
[06:08] <mdz> you can pretty much burn DVDs with dd(1)
[06:08] <justdave> I kept getting SCSI errors when I tried it
[06:08] <lamont_r> mdz apt uploaded for i386
[06:09] <mdz> justdave: works for me, after a fashion
[06:09] <mdz> lamont_r: thnaks
[06:09] <mdz> thanks, too
[06:09] <justdave> couldn't come up with a usable device name
[06:09] <lamont_r> mdz: it would be nice if growisofs would burn cds at the CD speed, not the DVD speed..
[06:09] <justdave> I suppose if I could figure out the device name it might work
[06:09] <lamont_r> er, nm. that's cdrecord again
[06:09] <Kamion> thom: mkisofs does have a scary feature set, mind
[06:10] <Kamion> justdave: /dev/cdrom works fine
[06:10] <lamont_r> justdave: I use cdrecord with an ide burner just fine
[06:10] <justdave> Kamion: on OS X?
[06:10] <mdz> ignore its pedantic warning about it
[06:10] <Kamion> justdave: oh. dunno
[06:10] <Kamion> that seems like an ambitious prospect at best
[06:10] <justdave> I'm thinking about people who only have OS X currently trying Linux for the first time :)
[06:10] <Kamion> Joerg Schilling barely supports Linux never mind OS X
[06:11] <justdave> cdrecord works on OS X, but I couldn't come up with a device name it liked for my burner
[06:11] <Kamion> "works"
[06:11] <lamont_r> mdz: wrt closed: I'm getting sig strength/qual of 5/55, using my gain antenna... :-)
[06:11] <justdave> well, yeah, I couldn't get it to work :)
[06:11] <lamont_r> ah, ppc.  dunno about that.. :-)
[06:11] <mdz> lamont_r: and that's still faster than home?
[06:11] <justdave> other folks on ubuntu-users claimed it did, iirc
[06:11] <lamont_r> mdz: sure
[06:12] <lamont_r> I just have to hear his wimpy ACK's.. :-)
[06:12] <lamont_r> he hears me just fine... :-)
[06:12] <lamont_r> well, I lie...
[06:13] <Kamion> interesting reaction to new artwork on #ubuntu
[06:13] <lamont_r> I could burn bandwidth like there's no tomorrow and download at about the same speed, or even closer to 40KB/s,  but that gets real expensive real fast
[06:14] <justdave> showtime
[06:14] <m_tthew> lamont_r: how high is your high-gain
[06:14] <lamont_r> which artwork did we wind up with?
[06:14] <Kamion> justdave: bet you hit the same apt bug
[06:14] <lamont_r> m_tthew: this one is 5.5db on the end of about 5 db of cable loss
[06:14] <lamont_r> 100mW card
[06:14] <lamont_r> so I'm really only about 5db up
[06:15] <lamont_r> I'm also shooting through about 5mm/hr of rain
[06:15] <lamont_r> maybe 10mm/hr
[06:15] <lamont_r> yeah.  10
[06:15] <m_tthew> ugh
[06:15] <lamont_r> not sure if he has low-E windows or not
[06:16] <lamont_r> but I'm only going < 100meters
[06:18] <mdz> m_tthew: there is this guy "Matthew D. Peavy" posting to ubuntu-users now, and I keep mistaking him for you at first glance
[06:18] <mdz> Matthew...eav...
[06:18] <m_tthew> he probably types better than I do
[06:20] <fabbione> lamont_r: do you remember what's the equivalent of 0C and -20C in F?
[06:21] <lamont_r> 32F and whatever 32-36 is
[06:22] <thom> Kamion: define interesting :-)
[06:22] <Kamion> thom: hmm?
[06:22] <mdz> thom: up early or up late?
[06:23] <thom> mdz: early
[06:23] <thom> hideously so
[06:23] <thom> 05:23 here
[06:24] <fabbione> lamont_r: 32F = 0C =
[06:24] <fabbione> ?
[06:24] <thom> Kamion: " < Kamion> interesting reaction to new artwork on #ubuntu"
[06:24] <Kamion> 05:09 < whiprush> woo, new wallpapers.
[06:24] <Kamion> 05:09 < whiprush> half naked people!
[06:24] <Kamion> 05:09 < ob> haha i saw that.
[06:24] <Kamion> 05:09 < ob> my wife was like "what the hell are you doing?"
[06:24] <Kamion> 05:09 < ob> "i swear to god i didn't do it!  it was ubuntu!"
[06:24] <Kamion> 05:09 < whiprush> "Use ubuntu and you could end up like this guy. Two. women. and GNOME!"
[06:24] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[06:25] <fabbione> mdz: ok thanks
[06:25] <mdz> 32F is the temperature at which water freezes under whatever standard conditions
[06:25] <fabbione> mdz: yup.. that's what i assume with 0C
[06:25] <lamont_r> so how does one make the people disappear from the new wallpaper?
[06:25] <mdz> lamont_r: you should not get the people by default
[06:25] <Kamion> they're not there by default
[06:26] <mdz> lamont_r: if you are, that's a bug
[06:26] <fabbione> mdz: i am going to disconnect wartylog and me to go and test the new adsl line in a few minutes.
[06:26] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[06:26] <fabbione> mdz: wish me luck.. :-)))
[06:26] <lamont_r> fabbione: and 100F == "human body temp."  specifically, farenheit's wife.  with a slight cold that day... :-(
[06:26] <mdz> fabbione: good luck
[06:26] <fabbione> if everything goes ok i will have full hardware capability within a few hours
[06:26] <mdz> lamont_r: which part of the body? :-)
[06:26] <fabbione> lamont_r: ehhe sounds fun :-)
[06:27] <lamont_r> mdz: ok.  hadn't actually gotten to that part, but walked through grabbing just ubuntu-artwork and waltzed through the .png's
[06:27] <lamont_r> mdz: I expect it was an oral temp
[06:29] <m_tthew> not long, I'll wager -- although it *is* a weekday
[06:31] <lamont_r> and only 22:30
[08:44] <fabbione> no luck :(
[08:44] <mdz> fabbione: :-(
[08:45] <fabbione> mdz: there is no atm signal at all
[08:45] <thom> ye gods. mono-assemblies-base is huge :/
[08:45] <mdz> thom: universe package, RESOLVED/INVALID :-P
[08:45] <fabbione> either the system requires an unconfigured router to set parameters (that won't surprise me)
[08:45] <fabbione> or the ISP has done some fucks up
[08:45] <mdz> or the telco has done some fucks up
[08:45] <fabbione> either way tomorrow will be another 2-5 hours downtime
[08:46] <mdz> I dunno about telcos in denmark, but here they are notorious
[08:46] <fabbione> mdz: here they are pretty good, but the problem is that i have been testing with my router
[08:46] <fabbione> their router still has to arrive
[08:47] <fabbione> so i am not sure if there might be differences in the configuration
[08:47] <fabbione> but i had to try
[08:47] <thom> mdz: *g*
[08:50] <pitti> Hi fabbione! Feeling any better today?
[08:50] <fabbione> pitti: yes. i slept until 4 am this morning
[08:50] <fabbione> almost all in a raw
[08:50] <pitti> sounds good ;-)
[08:50] <fabbione> yeah
[08:50] <mdz> I'm looking forward to some of this "sleep" myself
[08:51] <mdz> pitti: have you tested the release candidate candidate yet?
[08:51] <pitti> mdz: It just finished downloading, cd writing is at 5%
[08:51] <mdz> pitti: great, thanks
[08:51] <pitti> mdz: It takes me a while, I only got 50kB/s
[08:51] <pitti> mdz: I will test powerpc first
[08:51] <mdz> pitti: it's only about 25% different from yesterday's daily
[08:51] <mdz> fabbione: we still love you!
[08:52] <fabbione> since i can't test the crack today...
[08:52] <mdz> fabbione: can you test a new portmap package?
[08:52] <fabbione> mdz: yes i can do that
[08:53] <mdz> fabbione: i386?
[08:53] <pitti> gar, another broken cd-rw
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: yeps
[08:53] <mdz> fabbione: emailed
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: i cannot do installations from scratch. that's it
[08:53] <mdz> fabbione: it listens on only localhost by default
[08:53] <mdz> fabbione: (#505)
[08:53] <fabbione> mdz: but i can test packages
[08:53] <thom> right, nearly have the amd64 iso
[08:53] <mdz> see the comments in #505 about what needs specific testing
[08:54] <mdz> thom: do you want me to burn an extra and send it to you?
[08:54] <mdz> it might be faster
[08:54] <thom> at this rate it might well be :/
[08:54] <thom> yay, just finished
[08:54] <mdz> my secret is that I rsync the CD images every night
[08:54] <mdz> so I never have more than one day of deltas
[08:55] <Kamion> I don't actually rsync automatically, but I rsync most days anyway
[08:55] <fabbione> ok
[08:56] <fabbione> time to test portmapper from bottom up
[08:56] <fabbione> later
[08:56] <thom> mdz: that was only one day of deltas
[08:56] <thom> well, once i remembered that the names had changes
[08:58] <daniels> thom: you should move somewhere with decent bandwidth
[08:59] <thom> end of november.
[09:00] <pitti> Cheers to our fearless distribution leader!
[09:00] <mdz> I'm drinking creamsicles actually :-)
[09:01] <thom> happy birthday dude
[09:01] <mdz> pitti: orange juice and stoli vanil
[09:02] <doko> happy release day ;)
[09:02] <pitti> Can we say it's also Warty's birthday? If RC == Final?
[09:02] <mdz> pitti: sadly, RC != final
[09:02] <mdz> due to #505
[09:03] <mdz> though maybe fabio's testing will give us a second chance
[09:03] <Kamion> any word on gdm artwork?
[09:03] <mdz> Kamion: hmmm, jdub should be well awake
[09:03] <mdz> jdub_: ping?
[09:05] <fabbione> mdz: nfs client is ok. portmapper binds to localhost only.
[09:05] <Kamion> powerpc's good, I'm 3 for 3
[09:05] <mdz> fabbione: I assume locking does not work
[09:05] <fabbione> mdz: but i was checking.. there are other services like rpc.statd that are listening on all ips
[09:05] <mdz> fabbione: that is OK, those are not enabled unless you install non-default packages (nfs-common()
[09:06] <mdz> Kamion: Jane might be awake
[09:06] <mdz> she is the other party in possession of the gdm bits
[09:06] <Kamion> 8am's a bit early yet
[09:06] <mdz> repo man's got all night, every night
[09:07] <mdz> what time did Mark say he would be back?
[09:07] <thom> fucking. i'm so buying a new router when i move
[09:07] <fabbione> tcp        0      0 *:32768                 *:*                     LISTEN     
[09:07] <mdz> thom: www.soekris.com
[09:07] <fabbione>     100021    3   tcp  32768  nlockmgr
[09:08] <mdz> fabbione: but without portmap, the server can't find the port number to connect to
[09:08] <fabbione> that's correct
[09:08] <Kamion> 01:06 < sabdfl> night all, i'm crashing, back in about 7 hrs
[09:08] <Kamion> 01:06 < sabdfl> night all, i'm crashing, back in about 7 hrs
[09:08] <mdz> fabbione: I think we mostly just need to document how to turn on portmap
[09:08] <Kamion> so about now
[09:09] <fabbione> mdz: i am checking the server side
[09:09] <mdz> Kamion: that's what I thought
[09:09] <Kamion> ok, time for a Windows installation in order to test dual-booting
[09:09] <Kamion> pity me
[09:09] <mdz> Kamion: I haven't seen a non-Canonical install report yet :-/
[09:09] <Kamion> nor I
[09:09] <mdz> Kamion: oh dear
[09:10] <mdz> there ought to be a medal or something
[09:11] <fabbione> mount: RPC: Remote system error - Connection refused
[09:11] <fabbione> mdz: super!
[09:11] <Kamion> mdz: do we have any idea what the timescales are for the rest of today?
[09:11] <Kamion> we need about three hours after the artwork is uploaded, ideally
[09:12] <mdz> Kamion: I'm in the dark regarding the remaining artwork
[09:12] <Kamion> I was considering whether it would be possible to crash briefly, but I suspect it won't be
[09:12] <mdz> all I know is that jdub and silbs have copies
[09:12] <mdz> I SMSed jdub, but no response
[09:12] <mdz> Kamion: assuming the CD build script still works for me, that's doable
[09:12] <mdz> I have a few more hours in me
[09:12] <Kamion> I'll still have to do publish-release though; that's very raw
[09:13] <Kamion> I'll keep going on micro-dozes in my chair :)
[09:13] <mdz> fabbione: that's pretty good, actually
[09:13] <mdz> fabbione: gives a pretty good idea where to look
[09:13] <mdz> better than, say, segfaulting :-)
[09:14] <mdz> it is 0015, why is it hot inside?
[09:15] <mdz> ah, right, all the computers are on
[09:15] <thom> mdz: too much vodka?
[09:15] <thom> oh
[09:15] <mdz> it was quite hot today as well
[09:16] <mdz> 29C
[09:16] <mdz> 84% humidity, yuck
[09:16] <fabbione> mdz: you can move here... 6C
[09:16] <mdz> fabbione: maximum?
[09:16] <mdz> no thanks
[09:16] <thom> 29C? crikey, it was 10 here today and raining all day
[09:17] <fabbione> mdz: in this period the top was 10C yesterday
[09:17] <fabbione> mdz: this morning was 4 or something
[09:17] <daniels> it was about 24C here today; around 32 yesterday
[09:17] <daniels> and it's not even bloody summer :\
[09:17] <mdz> average high October temp in LA is 23C
[09:17] <daniels> luckily it's been raining also
[09:17] <fabbione> daniels: here it's winter.. you live in the wrong side of the world
[09:17] <daniels> apparently yesterday was the hottest october day ever; got up to 40C in some parts of Victoria
[09:17] <mdz> but it's generally quite dry, and so very pleasant even when it's hot
[09:18] <mdz> daniels: seasons don't really mean anything down there
[09:18] <mdz> daniels: you just make them up as you go along
[09:18] <daniels> thom: no, don't
[09:18] <daniels> thom: edd already has a patch in the bts
[09:18] <thom> oh, gar
[09:18] <daniels> mdz: we have 'hot', 'pleasant' and 'visiting englishman'
[09:19] <daniels> the latter involves a lot of rain and biting southerly winds :)
[09:19] <mdz> daniels: which, to a visiting englishman, is 'pleasant', right?
[09:19] <mdz> compared to the UK
[09:19] <mako> mdz: ok, i'm working on an announce mail
[09:20] <mako> mdz: is the plan to still have a wide audience for this?
[09:20] <mdz> mako: ok, let me know if you need anything
[09:20] <mdz> mako: hmm, not sure quite how wide
[09:20] <daniels> mdz: itym 'familiar'
[09:20] <thom> mdz: since the visiting englishman in question had been in .au for the 6 months or so preceeding, no, not really
[09:20] <mdz> mako: the wiki says lwn, debian, python, etc.
[09:21] <mako> mdz: right, this is definitely the RC announcement though, not the real deal
[09:21] <mako> mdz: yeah
[09:21] <mdz> mako: likewise
[09:21] <thom> daniels: build deps for that patch ain't right
[09:21] <daniels> thom: it's a start, if nothing else
[09:21] <jdub_> mdz: here briefly
[09:21] <jdub_> mdz: artwork and homepage bits on their way
[09:21] <jdub_> mdz: been at meetings all day
[09:21] <jdub_> mdz: coming back in ~30mins
[09:21] <mdz> jdub_: ok, artwork is the biggie
[09:22] <fabbione> mdz: what's a simple way to test locking on nfs?
[09:22] <mdz> fabbione: good question
[09:22] <fabbione> mdz: i know it needs lockd running
[09:22] <thom> daniels: yeah, will send updated patch in a few
[09:22] <fabbione> but that's it
[09:22] <justdave> ok, my ppc install was successful
[09:22] <mdz> fabbione: how about dpkg?
[09:23] <justdave> it finally finished.
[09:23] <daniels> thom: phat
[09:23] <mdz> justdave: thanks
[09:23] <elmo> morning
[09:24] <pitti> Hi elmo
[09:24] <fabbione> mdz: i don't want to ruin your day but nfs-common is in main :-))
[09:24] <daniels> elmo: 'morning dude
[09:24] <mdz> fabbione: yes, I know...?
[09:25] <fabbione> mdz: nevermind... :(
[09:25] <fabbione> mdz: for dpkg? you mean installing a deb package as a client?
[09:25] <mdz> it is not in base or desktop :-)
[09:25] <fabbione> mdz: that's easy to test..
[09:25] <mdz> fabbione: yes, dpkg does flock() locking I believe
[09:25] <thom> ok, the gdm startup sound freaks me the fuck out
[09:25] <daniels> thom: doubly so when combined with aphex twin
[09:25] <mdz> ah, it does fcntl()
[09:25] <mdz> even better
[09:27] <daniels> this bloody annoying chirp when the hard drive parks is a great metric of how often it spins up
[09:27] <fabbione> mdz: testing in a few... 
[09:27] <Kamion> mdz: what, on the .deb, not on /var/lib/dpkg?
[09:27] <mdz> Kamion: on /var/lib/dpkg
[09:27] <fabbione> mdz: i don't have /var on nfs
[09:27] <mdz> fabbione: debootstrap, mount, chroot, dpkg?
[09:28] <fabbione> mdz: hmmm i can arrange soething
[09:28] <mdz> thom: the fact that sound works out of the box freaks me out
[09:28] <fabbione> mdz: i need a few minutes to move stuff around
[09:28] <Kamion> it's only worked on one out of three machines here
[09:28] <Kamion> the powerbook, I think
[09:28] <thom> mdz: heh
[09:28] <mdz> Kamion: what has?
[09:28] <thom> ok, looks great on amd64
[09:28] <Kamion> then again the amd64 doesn't have speakers
[09:28] <justdave> yeah, worked on the iBook out of the box, too.  cool :)
[09:28] <mdz> Kamion: RCC?
[09:28] <mdz> oh, sound
[09:28] <Kamion> mdz: sounds
[09:28] <mdz> sabdfl: morning
[09:29] <sabdfl> morning warthogs!
[09:29] <fabbione> morning sabdfl 
[09:29] <sabdfl> hey fabbione
[09:29] <sabdfl> Happy Birthday MDZ!
[09:29] <daniels> mdz: happy birthday
[09:29] <daniels> sabdfl: 'morning
[09:29] <fabbione> doh!
[09:29] <thom> morning mark
[09:30] <fabbione> mdz: congratulation kid ;)
[09:30] <fabbione> mdz: 15 again?
[09:30] <thom> mdz: still think default shell should be zsh tho ;-)
[09:30] <mdz> thom: hoary :-)
[09:30] <mdz> sabdfl, daniels, fabbione, pitti: thanks :-)
[09:30] <daniels> so tempting to disable the fps display per default
[09:30] <doko> thom: does it support utf8 and multibyte?
[09:30] <pitti> Hi sabdfl
[09:31] <daniels> mdz: are you on autoreply? ;)
[09:31] <daniels> mdz: i think we should get get flaweless acpi support so we can suspend, resume, and hibernate on every laptop ever
[09:31] <daniels> mdz: also, open source support for all wireless cards, and nvidia
[09:31] <Kamion> dunno about autoreply, but I'm on autopilot
[09:31] <Kamion> daniels: you forgot to say "kthxbye"
[09:31] <thom> ok, so. EVMS worked out of the box. sata_via worked fine, mutt is too old but i can deal with that
[09:31] <mdz> daniels: hoary
[09:31] <sabdfl> hey Kamion
[09:31] <daniels> Kamion: ah, my bad
[09:31] <Kamion> morning Mark
[09:31] <daniels> mdz: yay!
[09:32] <thom> from where i'm sat, life is good
[09:32] <Kamion> the "lens passing over test-card" screensaver freaks me out
[09:33] <elmo> is this "<foo> freaks me out day"? 
[09:33] <elmo> :-P
[09:33] <Kamion> yes, that happens after umpteen hours awake
[09:34] <Kamion> although I dunno what thom's excuse is, the slacker :)
[09:35] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. i have /var/lib/dpkg as a symlink to /home/fabbione/dpkg that is NFS mounted...
[09:35] <thom> pffft. 5am is not sleeping.
[09:35] <fabbione> mdz: right a few secs that i am waiting rsync to finish and i will do an "update"
[09:36] <fabbione> mdz: if my workstation will go banana you know who to blame ;)
[09:36] <fabbione> thom: !
[09:37] <elmo> thom: 5am? dude, you started claiming you were going to bed at like 11
[09:37] <thom> elmo: no, i got up at 5
[09:37] <fabbione> thom: if you want to make all these blames true.. i can handover x.org to you :P
[09:37] <thom> i went to bed at 1
[09:37] <elmo> oh, okay, so you only procrastinated for 2 hours :)
[09:37] <thom> mdz: sorry, kamion has already played the "blame thom" card for the day
[09:37] <thom> elmo: *g*
[09:38] <thom> mdz: it's elmo's turn now
[09:38] <Kamion> thom: don't mind me, I'm easily amused today :)
[09:38] <fabbione> s/are/at
[09:38] <mako> mdz: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fRCAnnouncementEmail
[09:38] <mako> based off the last release announcment
[09:39] <mako> i kept the features totally intact
[09:39] <mako> and the first paragraph
[09:39] <mako> dunno if that's still a desireable thing to keep around
[09:40] <Kamion> mako: s/before the distribution if/before the distribution is/
[09:40] <fabbione> mako: " Our XFree86 packages have been updated to support plenty of new hardware."
[09:40] <fabbione> this is not completely true
[09:40] <Kamion> and aaargh, check the use of "it's" :-)
[09:40] <fabbione> and i have been kinda "harassed" for that
[09:40] <doko> finished powerpc and i386 installs. looks ok, besides the known german keyboard problem on powerpc X11
[09:40] <Kamion>    GNOME 2.8
[09:40] <Kamion>         Ubuntu is the first distribution to ship Gnome 2.8, on the day of its release - be the first on your street to try it out!
[09:40] <mako> fabbione: i didn't edit that part.. :)
[09:40] <mako> Kamion: right
[09:40] <Kamion> that maybe needs rewording now
[09:40] <mako> i should edit that part :)
[09:41] <mdz> mako: I think we should tone down the bit about xfree86 hardware support; fabbione will correct me if I'm mistaken, but we have done more work to correctly detect and configure for the hardware than adding support for devices which were not supported previously
[09:41] <fabbione> mdz: correct
[09:41] <fabbione> we improved some drivers
[09:41] <fabbione> that's true, but after preview I pushed the drivers to debian too
[09:41] <justdave> where is says "Firefox 0.9" it might be worth pointing out that we've applied security patches.
[09:42] <mako> mdz: i've already don this
[09:42] <fabbione> tho not all of them are up in the archive yet
[09:42] <justdave> otherwise everyone's going to ask
[09:43] <mdz> mako: the copy I'm looking at on the wiki still says " Our XFree86 packages have been updated to support plenty of new hardware."
[09:43] <mako> mdz: right.. i am making all of these changes and then will save the new page
[09:43] <mdz> ah, ok
[09:44] <daniels> how about 'we have an absolute arseload of patches to XFree86 4.3, and the first person to ask about X.org gets ti maintain 4.3 in the meantim' ;)
[09:45] <daniels> god, my typing is terrible, and I'm not celebrating
[09:45] <mako> ok, there's a batch of changes
[09:46] <mdz> mako: looks pretty good
[09:46] <mdz> mako: we need to make sure to update /download/ before this goes out
[09:46] <mako> mdz: yes
[09:46] <mako> saf
[09:46] <mako> sabdfl: have at it: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fRCAnnouncementEmail
[09:46] <sabdfl> mako: i'm going to take out a bit of the hype in the announcement
[09:46] <sabdfl> and warm it up a little with some warthogs humour
[09:47] <elmo> yes, please make sure /download/ points at releases.$distro.$tld
[09:47] <mdz> snort, snort
[09:47] <mako> sabdfl: sounds good :)
[09:48] <Kamion> sabdfl: looked at http://releases.ubuntu.com/ and rsync releases.ubuntu.com::releases/ this morning?
[09:48] <daniels> -n?
[09:48] <thom> daniels: dry-run
[09:48] <elmo> feature ;-P
[09:48] <justdave> is there any significance to the installer coming up with a red background?
[09:48] <Kamion> justdave: buglet in bogl
[09:48] <justdave> it was blue on the iBook...
[09:48] <thom> elmo: suuuure
[09:48] <justdave> just booted it on the G4 and it's red. :)
[09:49] <sabdfl> Kamion: looks almost too good to be true... where are the -current- files hidden?
[09:49] <pitti> justdave: does it show any error? This is the normal background of error messages...
[09:49] <Kamion> justdave: haven't seen that on any of my machines for months
[09:49] <Kamion> sabdfl: .pool; they get magically hidden over HTTP apparently, which is ideal
[09:49] <justdave> pitti: no error.  just the screen asking for my language
[09:50] <Kamion> sabdfl: look using rsync and you'll see them
[09:50] <sabdfl> love it when a plan comes together :-)
[09:50] <Kamion> I'm hoping it'll actually work in practice :)
[09:51] <Kamion> when we release the RC, I update the .pool/warty-* hardlinks and rename the warty/warty-* symlinks
[09:51] <justdave> This is the same machine that the non-smp kernel was hanging on when booted from the hard drive.
[09:51] <justdave> perhaps the installer knows something it isn't telling us :)
[09:52] <Kamion> justdave: it's probably a framebuffer palette glitch
[09:52] <Kamion> justdave: what kind of graphics hardware is it?
[09:52] <justdave> it's stayed red the whole time, for everything.
[09:52] <justdave> Nvidia something or other
[09:52] <Kamion> maybe it's an ati vs. nvidia issue then; I haven't seen that on ATI for a long time
[09:52] <justdave> yeah, the iBook is ATI, it was fine
[09:53] <Kamion> will note for future reference
[09:53] <daniels> bongbongbong
[09:54] <pitti> mdz:  Just finished iBook installation. Went without the hitch, just the AltGr key (for {}[] @ etc.) still does not work
[09:54] <daniels> the acx100 won't associate with the AP, but if I disable my laptop's wifi long enough (atheros), it will associate just fine, then the laptop associates too, and they all play nicely together.
[09:54] <pitti> mdz: otherwise, nice install experience :-)
[09:55] <doko> pitti: same here
[09:55] <fabbione> doko, pitti: which version of X did you get?
[09:55] <doko> today's CD
[09:55] <pitti> fabbione: the one on 12.3 cd
[09:55] <justdave> either a lot of the install is CPU intensive, or the iBook has a sh***y hard drive in it.
[09:55] <fabbione> doko, pitti: dpkg -p xserver-common
[09:55] <fabbione> i need to be sure
[09:55] <pitti> fabbione: 6ubuntu24
[09:56] <fabbione> pitti: which keyboard layout did you get?
[09:56] <pitti> fabbione: gar, I never noticed this since usually I mount my shared /home
[09:56] <fabbione> and which keyboard model?
[09:56] <pitti> fabbione: but my ~/.bashrc has an xmodmap call
[09:56] <pitti> fabbione: shall I look in the gnome setting?
[09:56] <daniels> gnome will override it by calling setxkbmap
[09:57] <pitti> fabbione: I want German with nodeadkeys, pc105
[09:57] <fabbione> pitti: no. i want to know what's in the config and what happens if you remove that call
[09:57] <pitti> daniels: but the xmodmap call worked fine; I already forgot about it
[09:57] <doko> fabbione: 6ubuntu24
[09:57] <doko> this works: http://www.mathematik.uni-marburg.de/~schmidtm/apple/Xmodmap
[09:57] <pitti> fabbione: I installed this one without my /home, it's absolutely clean
[09:57] <fabbione> pitti: on ppc you should get pc105
[09:57] <fabbione> i fixed that with ubuntu24
[09:58] <pitti> fabbione: XF86Config-4 says pc105, de
[09:58] <doko> fabbione: yes pc105 is configured
[09:58] <fabbione> so that's correct
[09:58] <fabbione> pitti, doko: check gnome at this point
[09:58] <pitti> fabbione: AltGr should be on the Option (Apple) key, right?
[09:58] <fabbione> pitti: i don't know.
[09:58] <fabbione> i don't have any kind of ppc at home
[09:58] <pitti> fabbione: at least that's where I use to have it
[09:59] <fabbione> pitti, doko: i have o rely on info coming from you guys
[09:59] <pitti> fabbione: gnome says german, generic 105-key (Intl) PC
[09:59] <justdave> phase 1 complete, rebooting
[10:00] <justdave> hey, it boots. :)
[10:00] <mdz> justdave: is this the box that doesn't boot with a non-smp kernel?
[10:00] <justdave> yes.
[10:00] <justdave> and it's booting
[10:00] <fabbione> bah gnome should stop playing with xmodmad & Co.
[10:01] <justdave> I noticed a new kernel up yesterday before getting the new cd images, hadn't had a chance to try it yet
[10:02] <mdz> justdave: the recent kernel changes have been unrelated to ppc
[10:02] <justdave> there seemed to be no real pattern to it before...  so perhaps I just got lucky this time.
[10:02] <fabbione> Internal Error
[10:02] <fabbione> Bugzilla has suffered an internal error. Please save this page and send it to justdave@canonical.com with details of what you were doing at the time this message appeared.
[10:02] <fabbione> URL: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/process_bug.cgi
[10:02] <fabbione> Form field knob was not defined; this may indicate a bug in your browser. Check that the "Leave as..." radio button was selected. 
[10:02] <fabbione> justdave: one hour of test report gone to hell
[10:03] <mdz> fabbione: check /proc/kcore
[10:03] <doko> hmm, the left and the right apple key show the same keycode with xev (115, Super_L)
[10:03] <fabbione> mdz: locking seems to be working
[10:03] <justdave> reloaded the form before you submitted?
[10:03] <mdz> fabbione: really? with portmap listening on localhost only?
[10:03] <daniels> fabbione: gnome/kde doesn't touch xmodmap
[10:03] <fabbione> mdz: yes
[10:03] <justdave> the radio button selection goes away when you hit reload I noticed.
[10:03] <daniels> they use setxkbmap
[10:03] <mdz> justdave: yes, very frustrating
[10:03] <fabbione> justdave: i only hitted "reply" to a comment
[10:03] <justdave> which seems really stupid, but that's what it's doing.
[10:03] <pitti> justdave: yep, this killed more than one report text for me
[10:04] <fabbione> mdz: if using /var/lib/dpkg on nfs is the test.. than yes.. it's working
[10:04] <justdave> I've been bit by it a few times myself.  Maybe we should just live with a huge dropdown box and kill the component selector.
[10:04] <mdz> fabbione: check strace to be sure
[10:04] <pitti> daniels: as I said, with the xmodmap call in ~/.bashrc everything went fine
[10:04] <justdave> that's the only real difference between us and mozilla.org and redhat.com, and they don't seem to have this problem
[10:06] <mako> sabdfl: looks nice
[10:06] <sabdfl> mako: still tweaking
[10:07] <sabdfl> Kamion: what's the rsync line to give mirrors for the "iso only" mirror?
[10:08] <fabbione> access("/var/lib/dpkg", W_OK)           = 0
[10:08] <fabbione> open("/var/lib/dpkg/lock", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC|O_LARGEFILE, 0660) = 3
[10:08] <fabbione> fcntl64(3, F_SETLK64, {type=F_WRLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=0, len=0}, 0xbffff8d0) = 0
[10:08] <fabbione> fcntl64(3, F_GETFD)                     = 0
[10:08] <fabbione> fcntl64(3, F_SETFD, FD_CLOEXEC)         = 0
[10:08] <fabbione> open("/var/lib/dpkg/status", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
[10:08] <fabbione> fstat64(4, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2309977, ...}) = 0
[10:08] <fabbione> mdz: looks very very good!
[10:08] <mdz> fabbione: yes, very interesting
[10:08] <mdz> I wonder if lockd just listens on a standard port
[10:08] <fabbione> mdz: let me check
[10:08] <pitti> doko: did you file a bug for this altgr thingy? I cannot find it in bz
[10:09] <fabbione>     100021    3   tcp  32768  nlockmgr
[10:09] <fabbione> netstat -an | grep 32768
[10:09] <fabbione> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:32768           0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN     
[10:09] <fabbione> udp        0      0 0.0.0.0:32768           0.0.0.0:*                          
[10:09] <fabbione> it's listening on everything, but portmapper is only on localhost
[10:10] <mdz> fabbione: do you actually see traffic to 32768?
[10:10] <fabbione> mdz: i didn't check
[10:10] <fabbione> let me see
[10:15] <doko> pitti: the same keycode?
[10:15] <fabbione> mdz: i don't see any traffic
[10:15] <mdz> fabbione: did you try unmounting and remounting?
[10:15] <mdz> maybe it checks when mounting if lockd is there, and disables locking if not
[10:15] <fabbione> no. i did try only using the partition/installing a package
[10:15] <fabbione> hold on
[10:16] <pitti> doko, fabbione: argh, now even my xmodmap call does not work any more
[10:16] <pitti> doko: what do you mean?
[10:16] <doko> pitti: ugh, the eject button is mapped to Super_R (116)
[10:17] <fabbione> mdz: hmmm
[10:17] <fabbione> actually
[10:17] <fabbione> there is something wrong in my test
[10:18] <fabbione> mdz: locking is done by the server...
[10:18] <mako> mdz: i think i'm going to crash for some period of time.. is it important for me to resurface at a given time? sending an announcment, etc?
[10:18] <doko> pitti: I just discovered the altgr thing, so no bug report yet.
[10:19] <fabbione> and clearly the server doesn't work if you don't let portmap to listen on the iface
[10:19] <pitti> doko: oh, I thought you were the one who filed it
[10:19] <mdz> mako: I can send off the announcements
[10:19] <fabbione> mdz: so once you open portmap you also open lockd (if running)
[10:19] <mako> mdz: alright.. bcc lwn@lwn.net :)
[10:19] <fabbione> mdz: mine were clientside tests :/
[10:19] <mako> i should be up in a few hours
[10:19] <fabbione> mdz: i did only a simple test on the server for mounting/umounting
[10:19] <mako> and i can just resent bounce where necessary
[10:19] <mako> night then.. don't hesitate to call/sms if necessary
[10:20] <justdave> mdz: yup, just got lucky.  rebooted and it hung
[10:21] <justdave> 2nd try it booted
[10:24] <sabdfl> mako: early please, this will likely go out around 1200 UTC
[10:24] <sabdfl> which is *early* NYC time
[10:32] <daniels> sabdfl: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=790
[10:33] <justdave> ok, confirmed, the component selector is what's breaking the cache somehow...  the Websites product doesn't use it, and Websites bugs don't lose their cache when you hit back.
[10:39] <mdz> going to try to sleep for 20-30 minutes
[10:40] <daniels> mdz: sleep well
[10:40] <fabbione> mdz: portmap is ok for me if you want to upload it
[10:45] <rburton> pitti: i replicated the ipod eject hang and got something maybe useful
[10:45] <pitti> rburton: I just read your bug followup, nice
[10:46] <rburton> ah just the man
[10:46] <rburton> hi seb128!
[10:46] <pitti> Hi seb128!
[10:46] <seb128> hey rburton & pitti & everybody else :)
[10:47] <rburton> seb128: so gnome and my keyboard disagree until i add an option which claims to be the default.  should X add it magically?
[10:47] <rburton> (the "super is mapped to win keys" option in the keyboard capplet)
[10:48] <fabbione> rburton: X doesn't configure or set any default in gnome
[10:49] <seb128> rburton: is that the "altwin:super_win" option ?
[10:49] <rburton> seb128: yes
[10:49] <fabbione> and it will never do that
[10:49] <rburton> fabbione: the gnome xkb stuff
[10:49] <seb128> rburton: Denis Barbier said we should add this in the XFConfig86-4 by default yeah
[10:49] <fabbione> rburton: " should X add it magically? "
[10:49] <rburton> fabbione: i meant X configuration, on a pc105 keyboard
[10:50] <fabbione> seb128: reference please?
[10:50] <Kamion> sabdfl: releases.ubuntu.com::releases/
[10:50] <seb128> fabbione: private mail in french when I mailed him about #1390 
[10:50] <fabbione> jeeeeeeee
[10:50] <seb128> I'm checking 1390 but I think that's in the bug report
[10:51] <daniels> rburton: yo
[10:51] <daniels> seb128: sup
[10:51] <seb128> comment #16
[10:51] <rburton> yo yo daniels
[10:51] <seb128> "Setting altwin:super_win option should do the trick.  The problem is that GNOME components are XKB-unaware, so modifiers have to be bound to real keys.  Adding this option by default in a GNOME environment is surely a good idea."
[10:51] <seb128> hey daniels
[10:52] <rburton> seb128: gnome claims altwin:super_win is the default, i take it that is wrong
[10:52] <fabbione> "Adding this option by default in a GNOME environment is surely a good idea"
[10:52] <fabbione> seb128: that doesn't tell me it needs to be set in X
[10:52] <seb128> we are in a GNOME environment -> we should add it in the xfree config
[10:52] <fabbione> a good idea also doesn't mean that it won't break the hell...
[10:53] <fabbione> what happens for users that use some other settings?
[10:53] <fabbione> what are the regressions at 7 days from final?
[10:53] <seb128> no idea sorry, I don't know a lot about xfree xkb stuff
[10:54] <daniels> if it's a good thing to have for GNOME, why not add it in the gnome keyboard manager?
[10:54] <justdave> woohoo
[10:54] <daniels> i'm also not so white-hot keen on changing it in X
[10:54] <justdave> cache problem is gone on bugzilla
[10:54] <justdave> found it finally
[10:55] <daniels> especially given the amount of seemingly unrelated shit that breaks every time someone touches XKB
[10:55] <fabbione> daniels: agreed
[10:55] <rburton> wimps! ;)
[10:55] <daniels> it's been a nightmare for us so far, and I'm extremely reluctant to touch it, *except* to fix the reversion from ubuntu19
[10:55] <fabbione> sooner or later we will get bugs like: Why my Xserver installation didn't detect my wifi WEP key encryption at 4096 bit automatically? ;)
[10:56] <daniels> hahaha
[10:56] <rburton> quick question -- if i have the nvidia drivers loaded, will hotplug detect and load the nvidia module or should i add it to /etc/modules?  i'm doing the latter atm
[10:56] <daniels> and it will be traced back to super_l not being a modifier in xkb or some bong like that
[10:56] <fabbione> rburton: the latter
[10:56] <pitti> doko: #2327, you might want to CC on it
[10:56] <rburton> fabbione: ok, thanks
[10:56] <daniels> shouldn't the X driver load the kernel module automatically?
[10:56] <fabbione> rburton: can you do a test for me?
[10:56] <fabbione> daniels: no it doesn't
[10:57] <rburton> fabbione: sure
[10:57] <daniels> bonnnng.
[10:57] <fabbione> rburton: downgrade to xlibs ubuntu23 and cp -rp /etc/X11/xkb* somewhere
[10:57] <fabbione> install ubuntu24
[10:57] <fabbione> and send me the diff between the 2 dirs
[10:57] <fabbione> i am curios if something that we can catch easily
[10:57] <rburton> where can i get ubuntu23 from?
[10:58] <pitti> rburton, daniels: you can set IGNORE_PCI_CLASS_DISPLAY to false in /etc/default/hotplug, then the module should load automatically
[10:58] <fabbione> hmmmm nowhere i guess
[10:59] <pitti> doko: Hi! I just submitted #2327, you might want to CC on it
[10:59] <rburton> pitti: sweet
[10:59] <pitti> rburton: it wasn't Unix if it worked without configuration :-/
[10:59] <fabbione> elmo: can we get xlibs ubuntu23 from the "deb cemetary"?
[11:03] <elmo> fabbione: jackass/morgue from within the lan
[11:03] <elmo> I'll work on making it more publicly available, but for now, you can grab what you need, I guess
[11:04] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[11:07] <sabdfl> elmo: what's the rsync location for the "minimalist iso-only" mirror?
[11:07] <doko> pitti: ok, digging me through /etc/X11/kbd ...
[11:08] <elmo> sabdfl: <Kamion> sabdfl: releases.ubuntu.com::releases/
[11:08] <sabdfl> elmo, kamion, thnaks
[11:08] <sabdfl> er..
[11:08] <sabdfl> thanks
[11:11] <fabbione> rburton: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/23_to_24.diff
[11:12] <fabbione> that's the diff from u23 to u24 of /etc/X11/xkb*
[11:12] <fabbione> rburton: mind to look and see if you spot something that might have changed the behaviour
[11:14] <rburton> ok
[11:17] <daniels> elmo: i assume that's http://jackass/morgue/ ?
[11:18] <elmo> yes
[11:23] <fabbione> pitti: if you revert to xlibs ubuntu23 does it work?
[11:24] <doko> fabbione: xserver-common only?
[11:24] <fabbione> doko: xlibs_ only
[11:24] <fabbione> and of course you must restart X
[11:25] <fabbione> if you don't have the old version you can grab it here;
[11:25] <fabbione> http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/
[11:27] <fabbione> ah bah.. you are on ppc
[11:27] <doko> fabbione: wait, I can't type ~ on the powerpc :-(
[11:27] <fabbione> doko: you will have to grab it from the morgue in case
[11:27] <pitti> doko: you can do it on the text consoles
[11:27] <pitti> doko: just use alt, alt and command are swapped there
[11:27] <fabbione> nevermind.. the package is _all.deb
[11:32] <pitti> fabbione: I installed your xlibs deb, restarted gdm, no change
[11:32] <pitti> fabbione: even the xmodmap call does not work
[11:34] <daniels> elmo: have you broken rsync on auckland recently? :)
[11:35] <daniels> elmo: nevermind
[11:36] <sabdfl> jdub_: i have widescreen images too
[11:36] <sabdfl> coming up by mail
[11:40] <fabbione> pitti: since how long you didn't restart X?
[11:41] <pitti> fabbione: 5 minutes
[11:41] <fabbione> pitti: you will have to go trough the morgue and figure from which version to which version the call to xmodmap is broken
[11:41] <pitti> fabbione: okay. Where is the morgue?
[11:41] <fabbione> pitti: no. i mean.. you noticed with ubuntu24.. what was the last version that was working?
[11:41] <fabbione> pitti: http://jackass/morgues from within the lan
[11:42] <fabbione> pitti: also.. if you call xmodmap from within X
[11:42] <pitti> fabbione: ugh, I just overwrote that one by today's installation :-(
[11:42] <fabbione> instead of .bashrc, does it work?
[11:42] <pitti> fabbione: I tried to call it manually in a gnome terminal
[11:42] <fabbione> pitti: xterm please
[11:42] <fabbione> gnome-terminal might do fancy things
[11:43] <pitti> ugh, xterm has an uuuugly font
[11:43] <pitti> fabbione: nope
[11:43] <fabbione> pitti: i don't really care about fonts here :P
[11:44] <sabdfl> jdub_: widescreen images are on their way to you now, a biggish email so let me know if it's not there in 5
[11:44] <pitti> fabbione: ubuntu22 was uploaded Sep 27, I definitively reinstalled the iBook after this date
[11:45] <pitti> fabbione: I'm pretty sure I had ubuntu22 before
[11:45] <|trey|> pitti: what are you refering to as ubuntu22?
[11:45] <pitti> |trey|: the X server
[11:45] <jdub_> sabdfl: backgrounds, or...?
[11:46] <|trey|> package?
[11:46] <fabbione> pitti: than please grab ubuntu22
[11:46] <pitti> fabbione: don't get me wrong, the xmodmap call does not need to work if I can get AltGr by other means
[11:46] <pitti> fabbione: okay, I'll do
[11:46] <fabbione> pitti: xmodmap should work
[11:46] <pitti> fabbione: xlibs is sufficient?
[11:46] <fabbione> i need to know when X broke
[11:46] <fabbione> pitti: yes
[11:47] <fabbione> pitti: also.. before the default was "macintosh" and not "pc105"
[11:47] <fabbione> pitti: so you need to double test it
[11:47] <fabbione> once with pc105 once with mac
[11:47] <pitti> fabbione: okay
[11:47] <fabbione> pitti: btw.. next time buy an i386.. it has better support :P
[11:48] <pitti> fabbione: I have an i386
[11:48] <pitti> fabbione: but I really like my ppc, in particular because it is a different platform to test things :-)
[11:50] <pitti> fabbione: ubuntu2[34]  with macintosh does not work
[11:51] <pitti> fabbione: http://jackass/morgues does not exist
[12:00] <fabbione> pitti: morgue
[12:00] <pitti> fabbione: I already tried that
[12:00] <fabbione> from within the LAN
[12:01] <pitti> Hi mvo!
[12:01] <pitti> fabbione: I tried from chinstrap
[12:02] <fabbione> pitti: i took ubunut23 out of that
[12:02] <mvo> hi pitti !
[12:02] <fabbione> wget http://jackass/morgue/
[12:03] <fabbione> pitti: from roockery
[12:03] <fabbione> same from chinstrap
[12:03] <pitti> fabbione: ERROR 404: Not Found.
[12:04] <fabbione> add the / at the end
[12:04] <pitti> fabbione: thanks, that was it
[12:10] <pitti> fabbione: just installed xlibs ubuntu22, same result
[12:11] <pitti> fabbione: do I have to regenerate some keymaps or delete something from my ~?
[12:11] <fabbione> pitti: nothing to regenerate
[12:11] <fabbione> pitti: just be sure to kill X
[12:11] <pitti> fabbione: I restarted gdm completely
[12:11] <fabbione>  /etc/init.d/gdm stop/start
[12:11] <fabbione> ok
[12:11] <pitti> fabbione: I'm absolutely sure that this worked until yesterday
[12:11] <fabbione> pitti: good point.. try with a fresh user
[12:12] <fabbione> pitti: there have been some gnome updates too
[12:12] <fabbione> i can't guarantee if something else broke down
[12:12] <fabbione> gnome takes over keyboard stuff
[12:12] <pitti> fabbione: BTW, now it asks me whether to use the GNOME or the X settings. Does not make any difference, though
[12:12] <fabbione> and it does not make things simpler
[12:12] <fabbione> pitti: yes it does
[12:12] <fabbione> use the X settings :-)
[12:12] <fabbione> so we will isolate the problem
[12:13] <pitti> I did :-)
[12:13] <fabbione> kill the user... use the gnome settings
[12:13] <fabbione> and see what happens
[12:15] <pitti> argh, my test user cannot login with a completely empty ~
[12:19] <pitti> fabbione: fresh test user with xlibs ubuntu22: same result, xmodmap does not work
[12:19] <pitti> fabbione: this must be a gnome thingy
[12:19] <fabbione> pitti: than something else is changes
[12:19] <fabbione> changed even
[12:19] <pitti> fabbione: shall I beat up seb128 then?
[12:20] <fabbione> pitti: can you revert to ubuntu18?
[12:20] <pitti> fabbione: I can
[12:20] <fabbione> pitti: please do
[12:20] <fabbione> and remember to cleanup the ~ of the user from the gnome crap
[12:25] <pitti> fabbione: same result. Shall I try in twm, or so=
[12:25] <pitti> fabbione: s/=/?/
[12:25] <sabdfl> what's the best url to point people at for an introduction to linux that's vendor neutral?
[12:25] <sabdfl> for our default home page
[12:26] <pitti> fabbione: doesn't work in "Terminal" session either :-(
[12:27] <thom> sabdfl: http://www.linux.org/ isn't so bad
[12:27] <pitti> fabbione: startx with 'exec xterm' in ~/.xsession still does not work. This is the most basic and close-to-X method I know
[12:28] <pitti> fabbione: maybe it is some other X package apart from xlibs?
[12:28] <fabbione> pitti: i doubt.
[12:28] <fabbione> pitti: the xkb stuff is only in xlibs
[12:28] <fabbione> but manly we changed xlibs and xserver-*
[12:28] <fabbione> so you can try a combination of them
[12:28] <fabbione> but nothing is changed that cannot load .xsession or similar
[12:28] <fabbione> i am 1000% sure about it
[12:29] <pitti> fabbione: I try to purge and reinstall the xlibs first
[12:29] <pitti> fabbione: by now I just downgraded
[12:30] <pitti> DAMN
[12:32] <thom> seb128: gnome weather applet is missing just about all the locations barring noirth american and mid east
[12:33] <fabbione> pitti: do you have an old sounder cd?
[12:33] <pitti> thom, seb128: I reported this as #2325
[12:33] <pitti> fabbione: no, I rsync them every day :-( 
[12:33] <pitti> fabbione: and my previous CD-RW broke this morning
[12:33] <pitti> fabbione: not the best day today, I guess
[12:33] <fabbione> yeah there have been no sounders for a while
[12:33] <seb128> thom,pitti: I've just upload a fixed package for the weather
[12:34] <elmo> Oct 13 11:33:12 mirnyy postfix/master[6882] : fatal: /etc/postfix/master.cf: line 84: bad hostname or network address: ::1
[12:34] <seb128> in fact that's in upload
[12:34] <fabbione> pitti: without these info there is really nothing i can do
[12:34] <elmo> uh.. does that mean our postfix config breaks on kernels without ipv6 or am I being stupid ?
[12:34] <seb128> uploaded
[12:34] <pitti> fabbione: I try to revert to xserver-xfree86 ubuntu18
[12:34] <fabbione> elmo: lamont fixed that a while ago
[12:38] <elmo> fabbione: I just purged and reinstalled postfix - same thing?
[12:38] <pitti> fabbione: YEAH! It works with xserver-xfree ubuntu18!
[12:38] <pitti> fabbione: that's something for a start
[12:38] <pitti> fabbione: I will slowly upgrade to the recent versions and isolate the problematic package
[12:40] <sabdfl> jdub_: looks great, needs a tweak or two
[12:40] <sabdfl> on 1024x768, the shoulder at the bottom is clipped
[12:40] <sabdfl> need to shift that image up a few pixels
[12:42] <fabbione> elmo: hold on a sec.. i can't remember in which version it has been fixed
[12:42] <fabbione> elmo: postfix (2.1.1-4) unstable; urgency=low
[12:42] <fabbione> or higher
[12:42] <jdub_> sabdfl: that's going to be a design co. thing if anything
[12:43] <jdub_> hrm, guess it can be done underneaththe blue bar
[12:43] <fabbione> pitti: what does work with ubuntu18? the alt+gr or the xmodmad command?
[12:43] <pitti> fabbione: without any xmodmap invocation the Option key at least does something; it prints other characters (though the wrong ones)
[12:43] <jdub_> sabdfl: trouble is, it's all relative
[12:44] <pitti> fabbione: if I issue the xmodmap command then, it works correctly
[12:44] <pitti> fabbione: I already upgraded the xlibs to the most recent version, still works
[12:44] <pitti> fabbione: now I upgrade the xserver to 22, 23
[12:46] <pitti> fabbione: I write this up as bug followup
[12:47] <sabdfl> jdub_: ok, we'll ship it as is. i think it looks FANTASTIC
[12:47] <fabbione> pitti: ok...
[12:47] <sabdfl> need to test quickly on much bigger screen, and widescreen
[12:48] <jdub_> sabdfl: it's going to look like horseshit on widescreen
[12:48] <jdub_> sabdfl: and without having non-bleed images (as suggested), we can't make it otherwise at this stage
[12:48] <jdub_> sabdfl: i mailed you about this and the logo issue last week
[12:49] <sabdfl> asking for non-bleed images on the morning of the release is horseshit :-)
[12:49] <sabdfl> didn't see it, didn't hear anything else from you
[12:49] <sabdfl> anyhow, nuff said, let's get it wrapped
[12:49] <sabdfl> what's the logo issue?
[12:49] <jdub_> the bottom right logo could be a separate image, to avoid mushing stuff over it (blue bar)
[12:50] <jdub_> ideally, each image component would be separate
[12:50] <jdub_> we can compose them flexibly in the theme
[12:51] <jdub_> (if the people were separate, and it didn't bleed, we could have those hanging on the left, etc)
[12:54] <sabdfl> jdub_: Oops.
[12:55] <sabdfl> the calendar image (non-ws) needs an update, in mail to you now
[12:59] <thom> hrmph, who forgot to add amd64 to architectures lists for mono?
[01:02] <pitti> fabbione: ugh, this is a tricky one. I followed up in bz
[01:04] <fabbione> pitti: that can't be possible
[01:04] <sabdfl> Kamion: status update
[01:04] <pitti> fabbione: I tried two times
[01:04] <sabdfl> jdub_: Kamion: i'm finishing up skinning the new default home page with limi
[01:04] <pitti> fabbione: purge xserver, isntall 24 -> does not work; install 23, upgrade to 24 -> works
[01:05] <sabdfl> should be done in about 20 minutes
[01:05] <fabbione> pitti: it would be interesting to know if starting from ubuntu18 to ubuntu24 there are leftovers from one installation -> upgrade to the other
[01:05] <sabdfl> to whom should i send the files?
[01:05] <jdub_> sabdfl: me, so they can go in ubuntu-artwork
[01:05] <pitti> fabbione: maybe 23 installs some files which are necessary?
[01:05] <fabbione> but if you can reproduce it with u23.. the latter woulb ok
[01:05] <pitti> fabbione: what is the other?
[01:05] <sabdfl> elmo: i still see no warty-security for multiverse?
[01:05] <jdub_> sabdfl: have the firefox and epiphany packages been modified to suit?
[01:05] <sabdfl> jdub_: no afaik
[01:05] <fabbione> pitti: i would check all the Xserver files and /etc/X11
[01:06] <sabdfl> thom: offline homepage is incoming
[01:06] <pitti> fabbione: with debdiff?
[01:06] <fabbione> pitti: but that's why we have a MANIFEST check
[01:06] <fabbione> no. on the real installation
[01:06] <jdub_> sabdfl: offline homepage goes in ubuntu-artwork
[01:06] <jdub_> sabdfl: the browser packages just need the home location changed
[01:06] <fabbione> pitti: the MANIFEST file would fail if files are added or removed without specific integration
[01:06] <sabdfl> jdub_: yes, understood
[01:06] <thom> cool. goes in u-a, ffox depends on it and changes home location
[01:06] <thom> goodo
[01:06] <sabdfl> thom: will you handle the firefox upload?
[01:07] <sabdfl> who will do epiph?
[01:07] <jdub_> i can
[01:07] <pitti> fabbione: so I diff -Nru /etc/X11 between the two possibilities (install from scratch and upgrade)?
[01:07] <fabbione> pitti: that's the first thing i would do
[01:07] <jdub_> thom: i'm thinking /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html -> yeah?
[01:07] <fabbione> pitti: take into account the diff i posted to people/~fabbione
[01:07] <fabbione> pitti: there are updates in ubuntu24
[01:08] <fabbione> pitti: but it doesn't explain why upgrading works and installing from scratch no
[01:08] <pitti> fabbione: no, I meant: I isntall 24, save /etc/X11; then it install 23, upgrade to 24, save /etc/X11 and then compare
[01:08] <pitti> fabbione: so theoretically there should be no differences
[01:08] <fabbione> pitti: oh right
[01:08] <thom> jdub_: looks sane
[01:08] <fabbione> pitti: yes theoretically no difference
[01:08] <Kamion> jdub_: /usr/share/doc sounds bad
[01:08] <Kamion> I'd go for somewhere in /var
[01:09] <Kamion> or /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html maybe
[01:09] <thom> Kamion: /usr/share/u-a no?
[01:09] <thom> yeah
[01:09] <jdub_> yeah
[01:09] <Kamion> right
[01:09] <thom> sorry, didn't see the doc/ originally
[01:09] <fabbione> pitti: are you still testing with startx only or are you involving gnome too?
[01:10] <pitti> fabbione: with startx because it is faster, but I checked also with gnome
[01:10] <fabbione> pitti: ok
[01:13] <thom> jdub_: what's the version of ubuntu-artwork you're uploading?
[01:13] <jdub_> 0.2.11
[01:13] <jdub_> -1
[01:14] <elmo> sabdfl: added - it'll be in the next cron.daily
[01:15] <pitti> fabbione: odd, the only difference is XkbModel pc105 (install from scratch) vs. XkbModel macintosh (upgrade); seems it does have to do with this change after all...
[01:16] <pitti> fabbione: I think I tested the keyboard layout change only in Gnome, not in Terminal session
[01:17] <thom> jdub_: building now
[01:17] <fabbione> pitti: is gnome aware of tXkbModel ?
[01:17] <fabbione> pitti: or it doesn't care?
[01:17] <pitti> fabbione: I don't know
[01:17] <fabbione> pitti: if you revert pc105 to macintosh in ubuntu24, does it work?
[01:17] <fabbione> (on a fresh install)
[01:17] <pitti> fabbione: I'm right at trying this
[01:18] <pitti> fabbione: yes, works
[01:18] <pitti> fabbione: puuh...
[01:18] <pitti> fabbione: so changing macintosh to pc105 breaks xmodmap in pure X
[01:18] <fabbione> pitti: at this point you and carlos and canonical have to agree of what XkbModel you want for ppc
[01:19] <pitti> fabbione: now I try with gnome
[01:19] <fabbione> otherwise i must ask
[01:19] <pitti> fabbione: hm, macintosh always worked fine for me; is it possible to fix xmodmap in pc105?
[01:19] <pitti> fabbione: OTOH, maybe the Option key just has another keycode in pc105
[01:20] <pitti> by now I use 73, but I can find that out with xev, right?
[01:20] <fabbione> pitti: i have no idea....
[01:20] <fabbione> pitti: yes you can check with xev
[01:21] <pitti> fabbione: nope, it's the same keycode and xmodmap still does not work
[01:21] <pitti> fabbione: also, with macintosh Option+key prints another character, but with pc105 it does nothing
[01:23] <fabbione> pitti:  1690
[01:23] <fabbione> either is pc105 or mac by default
[01:23] <fabbione> pitti: there is no much time to figure out what to do
[01:23] <fabbione> my suggestion to reintroduce the question for ppc had a negative consensum
[01:25] <pitti> okay, as expected it works with installing from scratch, changing back to macintosh and using the X keyboard settings
[01:26] <fabbione> ok
[01:26] <fabbione> we found a weird debconf bug
[01:26] <fabbione> db_set template/foo
[01:26] <fabbione> db_go
[01:26] <fabbione> (question is not shown(
[01:26] <fabbione> db_get template/foo
[01:27] <fabbione> it returns the default and not what it has been set?
[01:27] <fabbione> and nobody ever noticed before?
[01:27] <fabbione> + db_set xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list '1152x768 @ 60Hz'
[01:28] <jdub_> sabdfl: home page was sent...?
[01:28] <fabbione> + db_input low xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list
[01:28] <fabbione> + db_go
[01:28] <fabbione> + db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list
[01:28] <fabbione> + RET=640x480 @ 60Hz
[01:29] <fabbione> grrr
[01:30] <Kamion> fabbione: never seen anything like that happen
[01:30] <fabbione> Kamion: never mind
[01:30] <fabbione> I just figured
[01:30] <Kamion> fabbione: is xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list a select list?
[01:30] <Kamion> if so, is that value in its list of choices?
[01:31] <fabbione> Kamion: exaclty
[01:31] <fabbione> where is the PENDING upload status???
[01:31] <daniels> PENDINGUPLOAD
[01:32] <Kamion> uh, are we getting a new X upload before the RC?
[01:32] <fabbione> Kamion: probably yes
[01:32] <daniels> mdz has stated it's frozen
[01:32] <Kamion> isn't that a bit risky?
[01:32] <daniels> but I would really like to see one
[01:32] <daniels> yeah
[01:32] <fabbione> sabdfl: you around?
[01:32] <daniels> also, by the time all the buildds pick it up, and it hits the archive ...
[01:32] <daniels> mdz: ^^
[01:33] <Kamion> it'll take ages; I thought we were just waiting for ubuntu-artwork
[01:33] <sabdfl> fabbione: yes
[01:34] <fabbione> sabdfl: we have a problem with XkbModel for ppc
[01:34] <sabdfl> fabbione: ok
[01:34] <fabbione> it's a 50% 50% bet...
[01:34] <sabdfl> critical?
[01:34] <sabdfl> 50/50 it's fixed with the upload?
[01:34] <daniels> sabdfl: neither of us have Powerbooks
[01:34] <fabbione> sabdfl: well basically either we make happy 50% of the ppc users or the other 50% of the ppc users
[01:34] <sabdfl> fabbione: can we get it 100%, in the next hour?
[01:35] <sabdfl> how the hell did we miss half the ppc world till now?
[01:35] <fabbione> sabdfl: i can make them almost happy, but that means reintroducing a question for X during ppc (only) installation
[01:35] <fabbione> sabdfl: because i don't have 2 ppc to test on ;)
[01:36] <fabbione> sabdfl: either i fix it for final
[01:36] <fabbione> or Kamion will not go to sleep today
[01:36] <fabbione> hounestly i would prefer for final
[01:37] <sabdfl> ok, this is rc, we can't make it final
[01:37] <sabdfl> pity
[01:38] <sabdfl> so kamion, please just wait for artwork and firefox default home page and SHIP IT!
[01:38] <sabdfl> erm, mdz?
[01:38] <sabdfl> getting ahead of myself there
[01:38] <pitti> fabbione, sabdfl: if you want to introduce a question, you can as well point the users to dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 afterwards
[01:38] <sabdfl> mdz?
[01:38] <Kamion> we still need that portmap fix for final anyway
[01:38] <pitti> fabbione, sabdfl: I don't think that the AltGr issue is RC, it can easily be fixed
[01:39] <sabdfl> oh, ok, i though we had a good chance for this to be final
[01:39] <sabdfl> sorry
[01:39] <sabdfl> i guess mdz is still crashed
[01:39] <pitti> fabbione, sabdfl: and if you ask the question on installation, users can only gamble and guess anyway
[01:39] <fabbione> pitti: it is RC if you can't type half of the chars on your keyboard
[01:39] <sabdfl> pitti, fabbione: is this not something we can autodetect?
[01:39] <Kamion> mdz/fabbione had a fix-candidate for portmap, but it hasn't yet been uploaded
[01:39] <fabbione> sabdfl: no unfrotunatly
[01:39] <fabbione> Kamion: i only did the tests. mdz has the source
[01:39] <pitti> sabdfl, fabbione: please be aware that AltGr _never_ worked on ppc, also not with previous versions
[01:39] <sabdfl> but it's only ppc users that get asked the question?
[01:40] <fabbione> Kamion: the patch is in bugzilla
[01:40] <Kamion> 09:39 < mdz> going to try to sleep for 20-30 minutes
[01:40] <fabbione> sabdfl: yes
[01:40] <Kamion> he might have overdone it
[01:40] <sabdfl> wel, he deserves it
[01:40] <Kamion> yeah
[01:40] <sabdfl> and it's not critical since we're definitely not going final today
[01:40] <sabdfl> ok, let's get this sucker on the wire
[01:40] <sabdfl> jdub_: got the default home page?
[01:40] <sabdfl> thom: fixed firefox?
[01:40] <pitti> fabbione: if you ask the question, can you make sure that the xmodmap modification is done by default? Otherwise it makes no sense since you need the xmodmap to get a workign keyboard
[01:41] <thom> sabdfl: building currently
[01:41] <jdub_> sabdfl: just then
[01:44] <jdub_> sabdfl: can't see any errors - can i s/Gnome/GNOME/ ?
[01:44] <sabdfl> jdub_: sure
[01:44] <pitti> fabbione: the best thing IMHO would be to make xmodmap work for pc105, but I don't know whether this is possible
[01:44] <fabbione> pitti: how can i set that option within the X config?
[01:45] <pitti> fabbione: you mean like the extra options, win:altgr or so?
[01:45] <fabbione> yes
[01:45] <pitti> fabbione: I never found a solution for this, there is just no altgr modifier
[01:45] <jdub_> sabdfl: btw, are we meant to be referring to it as 'Ubuntu' everywhere, despite the website url? the first sentence is 'Ubuntu Linux is...'
[01:45] <pitti> fabbione: I needed something like Apple:AltGr, or Option:AltGr
[01:45] <pitti> fabbione: BTW, the Apple key is recognized as Super_L
[01:46] <sabdfl> jdub_: that's planned
[01:46] <fabbione> pitti: if you know how to do it.. let's do it.. otherwise i will only ask to confirm the Model
[01:46] <sabdfl> we need a little Linux here and there at the moment
[01:46] <sabdfl> can drop it later
[01:46] <jdub_> ok
[01:47] <pitti> fabbione: the "otherwise" part does not really make sense---altgr will not work regardless of the selected model
[01:47] <sabdfl> we'll add a portlet with a good description of ubuntu (spirit of humanity) for final
[01:49] <pitti> fabbione: there's neither AltGr or SuperL in the available options, so if that should work, new options must be invented
[01:51] <fabbione> pitti: ah
[01:51] <fabbione> hmmm
[01:52] <sabdfl> artwork upload status? firefox status?
[01:52] <sabdfl> are there test packages I can try please?
[01:52] <fabbione> pitti: i guess that we will skip the question part than
[01:53] <fabbione> pitti: people that needs specific configs like yours will have to do it manually for warty
[01:53] <fabbione> daniels: you around?
[01:53] <sabdfl> jdub: will get you the gdm image components today, so we can have a new package post-RC thatdoes gdm properly for 4:3 and widescreen
[01:53] <pitti> fabbione: agreed. We need a faq for the xmodmap part anyway, then we can add the macintosh part as well
[01:53] <jdub_> sabdfl: great, thanks
[01:53] <daniels> fabbione: 'sup
[01:53] <sabdfl> jdub_: is there a test package of what you are submitting to the rc?
[01:53] <sabdfl> thom: same for firefox?
[01:53] <jdub_> sabdfl: just building now, will take a bit to upload
[01:54] <jdub_> sabdfl: i'll mail you the separation reqs
[01:54] <sabdfl> jdub_: please ping this forum with a url as soon as it's built somewhere so we can test it while kamion builds the cd image
[01:54] <sabdfl> jdub_: cool
[01:54] <jdub_> yep
[01:54] <sabdfl> damn, 1200UTC is in SIX MINUTES
[01:55] <sabdfl> Kamion: time to build the cd?
[01:55] <Kamion> um, no :)
[01:55] <sabdfl> jdub_: eta for artwork for kamion?
[01:55] <Kamion> the packages aren't even in the archive yet, I need a time machine as well
[01:55] <sabdfl> thom: eta for firefox?
[01:56] <rburton> this is getting exciting ;)
[01:56] <rburton> people all over the world, starting to panic
[01:56] <sabdfl> rburton: you mean, at RHAT?
[01:56] <sabdfl> Redmond?
[01:56] <sabdfl> Cupertino?
[01:56] <rburton> haha
[01:56] <jdub_> sabdfl: 5 min
[01:56] <thom> sabdfl: i can upload it untested
[01:56] <ehb> my ubuntu installtion cd is unable to mount the cd-rom which is really a crucial bug since I'm stuck 
[01:56] <daniels> nremberg?
[01:57] <thom> but it's still building
[01:57] <Kamion> ehb: which CD?
[01:57] <jdub_> sabdfl: 6 min
[01:57] <ehb> the one uploaded the 28th september
[01:57] <daniels> ehb: what sort of cd-rom drive is it?
[01:57] <sabdfl> ehb: give us an hour and we'll publish the RC
[01:57] <daniels> ehb: just a normal ide cd-rom drive?
[01:57] <sabdfl> pcmcia....
[01:57] <Kamion> sabdfl: you're optimistic
[01:57] <ehb> yes normal IDE 
[01:58] <Kamion> sabdfl: it'll take an hour minimum for builds to arrive in the archive
[01:58] <sabdfl> OK, so we are at 1500 UTC for release then?
[01:58] <sabdfl> hour to get builds, hour to make cdimage, hour for slips?
[01:58] <ehb> Kamion, after trying from source install from cd install also fails, I'm really concidering giving up on ubuntu
[01:59] <sabdfl> mako: around?
[01:59] <Kamion> ehb: you've managed to pick a time when we're all flat-out, unfortunately
[01:59] <jdub_> sabdfl: erm, still around 5 mins to go... .au bandwidth is grrrreat!
[01:59] <jdub_> ehb: someone on #ubuntu might be able to help you in the mean time
[02:00] <Kamion> ehb: I'd be inclined to try a current daily build as the first port of call, though
[02:02] <fabbione> YES!
[02:02] <pitti> fabbione: I've found it!! I've found it!!!! ;-))
[02:02] <pitti> fabbione: it works with grp:lwin_switch (in macintosh layout)
[02:03] <fabbione> i found teh reason why some people had a 640x480 screen!
[02:03] <pitti> fabbione: day starts to get better, doesn't it? :-)
[02:03] <daniels> fabbione: why?
[02:03] <fabbione> pitti: considering that the adsl at my new house isn't working yet... yes
[02:03] <pitti> fabbione: not everything at the same time...
[02:04] <fabbione> daniels: we were getting the wrong frequencies. I didn't expect the template to be so... hmmm "empty"
[02:04] <daniels> fabbione: hm?
[02:04] <fabbione>       db_input low xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list || true
[02:04] <fabbione>       db_go
[02:04] <fabbione>         db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list
[02:05] <fabbione> basically if the resolution is not there we were always getting 640x480 @ 60 Hz as default
[02:05] <daniels> ah, bong
[02:05] <fabbione>       db_input low xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list || true
[02:05] <fabbione>       db_go
[02:05] <fabbione>       if [ -n "MAXRES" ] ; then
[02:05] <fabbione>         RET="MAXRES"
[02:05] <fabbione>       else
[02:05] <fabbione>         db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list
[02:05] <fabbione>       fi
[02:05] <fabbione> this is the fix
[02:05] <daniels> there are some really wack resolutions though
[02:05] <daniels> like 2777x2700 came up the other day
[02:05] <fabbione> if MAXRES exists it means that we are still guessing
[02:05] <daniels> for like some 14" 4:3 LCD
[02:05] <jdub_> ahr
[02:05] <jdub_> people.ubuntulinux.org/~jdub/ubuntu-artwork_0.2.11-1_all.deb
[02:06] <jdub_> ^ check that
[02:06] <jdub_> sabdfl: ^
[02:06] <fabbione> so we need to respect the wack resolution or the fact that the results might not be in the template
[02:06] <sabdfl> jdub_: thanks
[02:06] <sabdfl> please, everybody bang on that
[02:06] <sabdfl> thome, please do the same as soon as you have a build
[02:06] <sabdfl> thom
[02:06] <daniels> jdub_: changes?
[02:06] <sabdfl> ^
[02:06] <fabbione> daniels: that change will fix that problem too
[02:06] <jdub_> daniels: on-disk home page, gdm screen, splash, backgrounds
[02:06] <fabbione> daniels: it's pretty generic
[02:06] <daniels> fabbione: cool
[02:06] <daniels> jdub_: ahr!
[02:07] <fabbione>   * Fix a nasty bug in frequencies detection logic to get a better
[02:07] <fabbione>     clue if the resolution is not in the mode-list template. This fix will
[02:07] <fabbione>     also catch all the unknown resolutions without projecting the users
[02:07] <fabbione>     back in time to a 640x480@60Hz view of the world.
[02:08] <fabbione> daniels: what about the last changes Denis did in SVN about XKB?
[02:08] <daniels> fabbione: nice
[02:08] <daniels> fabbione: don't know enough about XKB to comment, really
[02:08] <fabbione> daniels: i think it is pretty much sane to get them
[02:09] <daniels> all I can say is that I assume he knows what he's doing
[02:09] <sabdfl> fabbione: what about daniels concerns that this could give whacked resolutions like 2777x2700?
[02:10] <fabbione> sabdfl: this change fixes the frequencies detection problem on whatever resolution we get back
[02:10] <fabbione> sabdfl: specially when the resolution is UNKNOWN and we are guessing
[02:10] <Kamion> new u-a seems to work on this i386 laptop
[02:11] <Kamion> wonder how well the gnome-session image will go over
[02:12] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, but sometimes ddcprobe feeds back resolutions like 2777x2700 because monitors are really really stupid and break ddc
[02:12] <jdub_> Kamion: mm
[02:13] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. so if we set XkbModel to macintosh, we need to set grp:lwin_switch?
[02:13] <pitti> fabbione: with this it works fine, yes.
[02:13] <fabbione> daniels: well.. that goes behiond my possibilities to fix crap around
[02:13] <lamont> daniels: but my monitor _works_ with ctiming: 1792x1344@60
[02:13] <sabdfl> Kamion: what's the best HTTP url to be pointing people at for download now?
[02:13] <Kamion> is the session splash configurable?
[02:13] <pitti> fabbione: but grp:lwin_switch does not work with pc105
[02:13] <fabbione> pitti: what happen if you do that on pc105 layout?
[02:13] <fabbione> ok
[02:13] <sabdfl> am editing the web site now
[02:13] <thom> jdub_: gdmthemetester looks good
[02:13] <pitti> fabbione: nothing :-) It is essentially the same like the xmodmap call
[02:14] <lamont> do we have torrent?
[02:14] <Kamion> sabdfl: can it wait until the RC actually exists? until then I'd like it left at Sounder 9
[02:14] <jdub_> thom: awesome image
[02:14] <pitti> fabbione: I don't know anything about the keymap stuff, but I try to add the option to pc105
[02:14] <sabdfl> kamion: ok.... twitchy trigger finger mark
[02:14] <daniels> fabbione: that's one of the reasons why I liked the whitelist
[02:14] <thom> lamont: yes
[02:14] <daniels> fabbione: could we please get 1792x1344 in the whitelist?
[02:15] <fabbione> daniels: of which template? 
[02:15] <sabdfl> thom: is there a place to fetch your build of firefox yet?
[02:15] <daniels> fabbione: mode-list
[02:15] <Kamion> jdub_: no preview of Human visible in gdmsetup?
[02:15] <fabbione> daniels: we have 2 templates for resolutions. one for the pure size of the screen and one for the frequencies
[02:15] <daniels> fabbione: i think maintaining a whitelist is the best solution imho
[02:15] <daniels> fabbione: a lot of monitor just give back complete shit in dtiming
[02:15] <Kamion> it just says "No screenshot available"
[02:15] <jdub_> Kamion: ah, bong, forgot to add the thumb - thanks
[02:15] <daniels> like, it looks valid, and you can't pick it from valid stuff, but it's just complete shit
[02:16] <thom> sabdfl: no, it's still going
[02:16] <fabbione> daniels: we don't use dtimings anyway
[02:16] <thom> firefox takes for EVER
[02:16] <sabdfl> jdub_: that can go in for final, not a new upload now
[02:16] <sabdfl> thom: where is it building?
[02:16] <daniels> fabbione: yes we do
[02:16] <daniels> fabbione: some monitors (quite rightly) only return dtimings
[02:16] <thom> sabdfl: locally, so i can make sure i got the changes right
[02:16] <jdub_> sabdfl: haven't uploaded yet
[02:16] <daniels> fabbione: i think that's been in since about xresprobe 0.4.6 or .7
[02:17] <fabbione> daniels: that resolution is already whitelisted
[02:17] <daniels> gdmthemetester here looks great, and I like the theme (although maybe a bit too much nipple), although xnest has gone totally bongtastic
[02:19] <thom> ok, bored of firefox now
[02:19] <sabdfl> thom: *legend*ary
[02:20] <sabdfl> Kamion: many of the mirrors that have been setup are mirrors of the huge full tree
[02:20] <sabdfl> is there a directory in there which has the same simple structure as the shiny releases dir you setup last night?
[02:21] <jdub_> thom: i'll start calling you princess...
[02:21] <Kamion> sabdfl: no, was worried about the rsync implications of that
[02:21] <Kamion> not to mention confusion ...
[02:22] <sabdfl> Kamion: could be constructed purely of symblinks?
[02:22] <Kamion> can't we just do README.html as previously discussed?
[02:22] <jdub_> symbling!
[02:22] <daniels> bling!
[02:22] <Kamion> the link structure on little is getting way out of hand already
[02:22] <sivang> jdub : you've got my draft for the offline page?
[02:22] <sabdfl> Kamion: this will allow me to link from the download page straight to that directory on the major mirrors
[02:22] <jdub_> sivang: yes, mark has checked and updated it
[02:22] <jdub_> sivang: thanks
[02:22] <thom> extensions/webservices/soap FFS
[02:23] <sabdfl> it meas that someone doesn't have to find the image in that huge tree
[02:23] <sabdfl> symlinks only means rsync implications are tiny
[02:23] <thom> i wish SOAP would burn in the utmost fires of hell
[02:23] <Kamion> my head hurts thinking about this
[02:23] <Kamion> OK, I guess. it's still a totally fucked-up mess now though.
[02:23] <sabdfl> could we create it at the very top, next to pool etc?
[02:23] <sivang> thom, I am not sure if soap is flameable... :)
[02:23] <Kamion> what can we call it? releases is taken
[02:23] <sabdfl> as /releases/
[02:24] <Kamion> that's taken
[02:24] <sabdfl> i don't see it anywhere on the big mirrors
[02:24] <Kamion> I'm looking at it right here
[02:24] <sabdfl> http://mirror.clarkson.edu/pub/distributions/ubuntu/
[02:24] <Kamion> sabdfl: that's the archive, not the cdimage tree
[02:24] <lamont> sivang: with sufficient heat, it'll burn. :)
[02:24] <sabdfl> that's what some guys are mirroring
[02:24] <sabdfl> does it not include the cdimage tree?
[02:24] <Kamion> sabdfl: we can't just force them to grab the cdimages too
[02:25] <Kamion> not all mirrors will have space for that
[02:25] <Kamion> no, it doesn't
[02:25] <sabdfl> ok
[02:25] <sabdfl> for hoary i figure we want that
[02:25] <sabdfl> mirrors can be either cdimage or the archive + cdimage
[02:25] <Kamion> mirrors have a legitimate need to choose between the archive, cdimages, or both
[02:25] <sabdfl> for one or more architectures
[02:25] <Kamion> but they already can
[02:25] <sabdfl> well, with --exclude they would still be able to
[02:26] <Kamion> I don't think it's at all fair to say that mirrors can't mirror just the archive
[02:26] <Kamion> that's an incredibly common use case you're cutting off
[02:26] <sabdfl> Kamion: ok
[02:26] <sabdfl> but this means that for release, none of those guys have the cd images
[02:26] <Kamion> right, but that's their choice
[02:26] <Kamion> if they were interested in that, they'd already be mirroring the preview cdimage, right?
[02:27] <Kamion> since that's pretty easy to mirror on its own
[02:27] <sabdfl> do they have the option currently to mirror cdimages and archive in ONE SHOT?
[02:27] <Kamion> no, but mirrors don't actually want that AFAICT
[02:27] <sabdfl> i agree they need the option
[02:27] <sabdfl> but I think they want a single line that does what they want
[02:27] <Kamion> most distributions have two separate and distinct trees for cdimage and archive
[02:27] <sabdfl> that's all i'm saying
[02:27] <sabdfl> we don't want that
[02:27] <sabdfl> i asked baby je... never mind
[02:27] <Kamion> I think we need to ask mirror admins before Just Doing it
[02:27] <sabdfl> agreed
[02:28] <sabdfl> we won't just do it, we'll plan it during the hoary process
[02:28] <Kamion> since a lot of them will have disk space constraints and will be very surprised by it showing up out of the blue :)
[02:28] <sabdfl> my bad, i thought we had this already
[02:28] <Kamion> ok
[02:28] <sabdfl> we need a way for them to mirror just releases, cd image, and security updates
[02:28] <sabdfl> not the development stuff
[02:28] <sabdfl> not the daily cd builds
[02:28] <sabdfl> not even the previews
[02:29] <Kamion> that still leaves the question of what to call the version of the simple tree visible on mirrors that already have the full tree
[02:29] <sabdfl> we can get together in the hoary process and nail this properly
[02:29] <Kamion> that sounds like an entirely new rsync module
[02:29] <sabdfl> well, if they have the full tree by my schema they already HAVE the simple version
[02:30] <Kamion> currently the full tree has at the top level: code, daily, releases, sounder-test
[02:30] <hornbeck> the new cd is working great for me
[02:30] <sabdfl> as /releases/ with symlinks
[02:30] <fabbione> pitti: i am building an xserver for you to test
[02:30] <sabdfl> um applauds, even
[02:30] <thom> dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us  1412.10s user 209.07s system 37% cpu 1:12:58.53 total
[02:30] <sabdfl> wow
[02:30] <pitti> fabbione: oh, nice. Currently I try to find an option combination that works for pc105
[02:30] <pitti> fabbione: you build for powerpc?
[02:30] <sabdfl> does this still have to build on the buildd's?
[02:31] <fabbione> pitti: ah right.. you are on ppc
[02:31] <Kamion> they've got /releases/warty/preview/ at the moment, etc.
[02:31] <fabbione> pitti: yes i can do that too
[02:31] <Kamion> um
[02:31] <Kamion> where is alex de landgraaf?
[02:31] <pitti> fabbione: there's no problem on i386, there I have a proper AltGr key
[02:31] <lamont> sabdfl: if he hasn't uploaded source yet, then, um, yes.
[02:31] <sabdfl> kamion i think we can go for RC with the new artwork but without the new firefox
[02:31] <sabdfl> that's just a homepage update
[02:32] <thom> sabdfl: yup
[02:32] <sabdfl> artowrk should build really fast
[02:32] <jdub_> i'm about to do ephy too
[02:32] <Kamion> ok
[02:32] <sabdfl> great
[02:32] <thom> buildds will be much faster tho
[02:32] <thom> works
[02:32] <thom> uploading now
[02:32] <Kamion> a live-i386.iso has suddenly appeared in a directory I was using for testing only and was about to blow away, owned by alex
[02:32] <sabdfl> lamont: please steer jdub's artowrk package through the buildd's and into the archive blitz-vinnig
[02:32] <fabbione> pitti: i am going to build on ppc in a few minutes
[02:32] <fabbione> pitti: i am uploading the diff.gz
[02:33] <sabdfl> he's not on irc
[02:33] <pitti> fabbione: did you change anything that could help to make the option work on pc105?
[02:33] <sabdfl> Kamion: pause on the blowing away :-)
[02:33] <jdub_> http://www.gnome.org/~calum/img/person-applet.png
[02:33] <sabdfl> that might just be a godsend... we could get live cd for RC too :-)
[02:33] <fabbione> pitti: no, if i don't know exactly what to stick in there
[02:33] <m_tthew> good morning, guys
[02:33] <Kamion> sabdfl: it'll predate new artwork of course
[02:33] <m_tthew> Kamion: when I slept it was RCC3, news ones I should test?
[02:34] <m_tthew> new, even
[02:34] <pitti> fabbione: I looked in /etc/X11/xkb, but I can't make out how these modifiers are defined and how the keymaps use them
[02:34] <sabdfl> m_tthew: RC is in process
[02:34] <lamont> sabdfl: I can gain it a couple minutes is all.
[02:34] <fabbione> pitti: you need to ask Denis
[02:34] <lamont> and then only if the build time is >25 min and < 30
[02:34] <fabbione> pitti: i really really have issues with XKB
[02:34] <sivang> jdub_ : nice, this already existing? does it plugin to GAIM ?
[02:34] <sabdfl> lamont: please keep me posted if it bottlenecks anywhere
[02:35] <pitti> fabbione: Denis? any mail address? or IRC?
[02:35] <jdub_> sivang: no, that's a mockup
[02:35] <lamont> we'll do
[02:35] <sabdfl> lamont, jdub_, it shoudl build even faster than that, it's just artwork for _all
[02:35] <lamont> jdub: did you happen to upload it before :30?
[02:35] <fabbione> lamont: can i use adare?
[02:35] <jdub_> lamont: haven't uploaded ephy yet
[02:35] <fabbione> lamont: or it is going to be hitten hard?
[02:35] <sabdfl> (13:30:03) ***jdub_ uploads u-a
[02:35] <lamont> uploads that happen before :30 or :00 start building shortly after :33 or :03
[02:35] <jdub_> just about to submit u-a to the queue
[02:35] <Kamion> sabdfl: oh yeah, it's cool to have it, I just want to know exactly what it is :)
[02:35] <elmo> lamont: don't worry about that, I'll be byhanding stuff
[02:36] <lamont> elmo: awesome.
[02:36] <sabdfl> trojan horse from the dutch
[02:36] <lamont> sabdfl: elmo, OTOH, can make :[03] 0 happen faster...
[02:36] <jdub_> sabdfl: heh, from here "upload" and "submit to queue" are very separate processes ;)
[02:36] <Kamion> plus, somebody needs to test it
[02:36] <jdub_> u-a submitted
[02:36] <sabdfl> elmo: can you steer the new artwork package through the archive process fast as lightning please?
[02:37] <lamont> elmo: tell me when it's in src, and I'll kick a buildd or 3...
[02:37] <thom> aaargh
[02:37] <daniels> jennifer /org/archive.w.h.c/queue/unchecked/*.changes && kelly /org/archive.w.h.c/queue/accepted/*.changes
[02:37] <elmo> daniels: err, no
[02:37] <daniels> or whatever it is
[02:37] <daniels> or just run the cron scripts by hand
[02:38] <daniels> or do other stuff
[02:38] <elmo> sabdfl: yes, am doing
[02:38] <daniels> either way
[02:38] <jdub_> ephy ready to submit to queue
[02:38] <thom> (the make leaves symlinks spattered over the tree that they don't clean up)
[02:38] <thom> (which of course breaks dpkg-source)
[02:39] <elmo> lamont: kick i386?
[02:40] <thom> firefox is in the queue
[02:41] <Kamion> am I waiting for firefox?
[02:42] <jdub_> ephy submitted
[02:43] <elmo> lamont: mozilla-firefox available to the buildds
[02:45] <Kamion> Alex's new live CD is at http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/releases/warty/rcc3/live-i386.iso; testing appreciated
[02:45] <lamont> royal, crested, terranova
[02:46] <elmo> lamont: and epiphany now too
[02:46] <jdub_> heh:
[02:46] <jdub_> gdmflexiserver --monte-carlo-pi
[02:47] <Kamion> I'm getting a three-hour ETA on the live CD; unless anyone can get it faster than I can, I'd suggest we might want to publish it slightly after the rest of the RC
[02:47] <Kamion> I'm not comfortable with releasing something we haven't tested
[02:48] <jdub_> Kamion: that's via rsync?
[02:48] <Kamion> jdub_: I don't have a useful base to start from
[02:48] <Kamion> jdub_: this is from scratch
[02:48] <fabbione> daniels: 099l does NOT build
[02:49] <jdub_> i'll try pulling via rsync
[02:49] <Kamion> lamont: hooray
[02:49] <lamont> Kamion: once I get a good build of a LiveCD, then I need to see what other non-DC bits it's dependant on, and address that..
[02:50] <lamont> _then_ we'll have a LiveCD that I'm comfortable with.
[02:50] <pitti> fabbione: success!
[02:50] <fabbione> pitti: ???
[02:50] <pitti> fabbione: lv3:lwin_switch works for pc105
[02:51] <lamont> meanwhile, I think I'm gonna go torture my buddy in a couple hours... 75 hr eta on RCC1 download. :-(
[02:51] <fabbione> pitti: ok!
[02:51] <daniels> fabbione: ?!?
[02:51] <pitti> carlos: here?
[02:51] <daniels> fabbione: oh
[02:51] <carlos> pitti: hi
[02:51] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, s/VEROBSITY/VERBOSITY/
[02:51] <m_tthew> lamont: at least now you should be able to get coffee
[02:51] <daniels> fabbione: forgot to scp the updated version to rookery, sorry
[02:51] <pitti> carlos: regarding #2327 (macintosh vs. pc105 war)
[02:52] <pitti> carlos: can you please try whether XkbOptions 'lv3:lwin_switch' does any harm to you?
[02:52] <lamont> m_tthew: don't drink the stuff...  Leads to discussions with the coffee shop owner, of course...
[02:52] <pitti> fabbione: I let carlos check that it does not break anything
[02:52] <lamont> since I don't buy any high-margin items.
[02:52] <pitti> carlos: I need it to have kind of an AltGr key (The apple key in this case)
[02:52] <lamont> but he only has 256kbps, buddy has 1.5Mbps atm, or so
[02:52] <carlos> pitti: with macintosh or pc105?
[02:52] <lamont> ENOSHARING :-)
[02:53] <pitti> carlos: pc105
[02:53] <pitti> carlos: fabbione changed the default to pc105, which broke my clever xmodmap call
[02:53] <pitti> carlos: and I currently try to get a working solution for pc105
[02:53] <pitti> carlos: above option works fine for me
[02:53] <carlos> pitti: well, my request was only for Spanish keyboards
[02:53] <pitti> carlos: nevertheless it would be nice if you could test
[02:53] <carlos> sure
[02:54] <pitti> carlos: does the Apple key currently do anything useful for you?
[02:54] <carlos> let me boot the imac, I cannot reboot the powerbook at this moment
[02:54] <carlos> not really
[02:54] <pitti> carlos: I don't have an AltGr (as you have), so I need the Apple key for AltGr
[02:54] <carlos> pitti: did you tested Fn + Alt as AltGR?
[02:54] <pitti> carlos: I think yes, lemme try...
[02:56] <pitti> carlos: it works for some keys like ~, but not for []   {}
[02:56] <carlos> :-?
[02:56] <carlos> pitti: which keymap do you have with xev?
[02:57] <pitti> carlos: you mean keycode?
[02:58] <carlos> pitti: xev says the symbol a key has
[02:58] <carlos> it should say AltGr 
[02:58] <pitti> carlos: I don't have AltGr
[02:59] <sabdfl> Kamion: not waiting for firefox
[02:59] <Kamion> ok
[02:59] <sabdfl> Kamion: agreed, we can publish the livecd a bit later
[02:59] <fabbione> pitti: so i can just set lv3 instead of the other
[03:00] <fabbione> ops
[03:00] <fabbione> well yeah
[03:00] <pitti> fabbione: yes
[03:00] <pitti> fabbione: works for me, but let carlos test this, too
[03:00] <sabdfl> jdub_: does X come up with the new background colour instead of black?
[03:00] <pitti> carlos: Apple is "Super_L" in xev without any XkbOptions
[03:00] <jdub_> sabdfl: hrm, don't think that went in
[03:01] <jdub_> daniels: was that in the latest X update?
[03:01] <fabbione> jdub_: no
[03:01] <fabbione> there is nothing in the changelog for that
[03:01] <fabbione> jdub_: what is all about?
[03:01] <carlos> pitti: with that, I get the AltGr also in the Apple key
[03:01] <pitti> carlos: exactly this was the intended change
[03:02] <sabdfl> fabbione: can you make sure that x is starting with a colour other than black?
[03:02] <sabdfl> for the final
[03:02] <jdub_> fabbione: daniel was going to change the stipple to a flat colour (same as the desktop default colour, or grey)
[03:02] <pitti> carlos: because the iBook does not have AltGr
[03:02] <sabdfl> the colour should be the same as the gdm background colour
[03:02] <pitti> carlos: I asked you to test it because you could have used the Apple key for sth different
[03:02] <fabbione> sabdfl: i think so... 
[03:02] <pitti> carlos: so does it break anything?
[03:02] <jdub_> sabdfl: which is now the desktop background colour
[03:02] <carlos> pitti: neither my Powerbook or imac keyb, but I have a right Alt that is a AltGr key
[03:02] <fabbione> daniels: do you have a patch for that?
[03:02] <carlos> so now I have three AltGr keys
[03:03] <carlos> pitti: no, it does not breaks anything as far as I know
[03:03] <pitti> carlos: so would it be okay for you to have the option as default?
[03:03] <pitti> carlos: great!
[03:03] <sabdfl> Kamion: we still ok for a UTC 15:00 release?
[03:03] <pitti> fabbione: it does not break for carlos, too
[03:03] <carlos> pitti: well, perhaps it's better if the pc105 change is done only for Spanish keymaps...
[03:03] <fabbione> pitti:     MACOPTS="lv3:lwin_switch"
[03:03] <fabbione> pitti: is that final?
[03:03] <pitti> carlos: No, I don't think so. It is better for me, too, and many other users need it also
[03:03] <Kamion> sabdfl: oh, UTC, phew, not UK time
[03:03] <carlos> so you don't need to do those things, because perhaps the de keyboard and es one are fixed but we could break other ones
[03:03] <pitti> fabbione: works for me and carlos, for pc105 and macintosh
[03:03] <carlos> pitti: ok
[03:04] <Kamion> sabdfl: should be OK as long as all the builds arrive
[03:04] <fabbione> Kamion: you still have a ppc, right?
[03:04] <pitti> fabbione: so that should be fine
[03:04] <carlos> pitti: for pc105, macintosh is not tested here
[03:04] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, typing on one now
[03:04] <Kamion> fabbione: but I cannot give you testing love just at the moment
[03:04] <fabbione> Kamion: ok
[03:04] <fabbione> Kamion: no rush
[03:04] <fabbione> elmo is on ppc ;)
[03:05] <pitti> Kamion: do you need the Apple key for anything particular?
[03:05] <pitti> Kamion: because I propose to make it equivalent to the AltGr key (I don't have the latter)
[03:05] <Kamion> pitti: uh, yes, it's my meta key
[03:05] <pitti> Kamion: we must not do this by default if Apple is used for something
[03:05] <sabdfl> jdub_: #4e3e29 i think
[03:06] <sabdfl> is the colour to be used for "No wallpaper", in the email i sent you
[03:06] <Kamion> Option is Alt_L, Apple key is Meta_L
[03:06] <pitti> Kamion: what's a Meta key? I need the key for typing @ []  {} and so on
[03:06] <jdub_> sabdfl: see latest gdm upload
[03:06] <pitti> Kamion: do you have AltGr?
[03:06] <sabdfl> jdub_: in the archive?
[03:07] <Kamion> pitti: no, I don't have AltGr, unless it's Fn+Alt
[03:07] <jdub_> sabdfl: on its way in; it just sets the gdm background to the desktop default background
[03:07] <pitti> Kamion: Fn+Alt only works partly for me
[03:07] <sabdfl> ok
[03:07] <Kamion> pitti: maybe it should be made to work fully :)
[03:07] <Kamion> pitti: stealing Apple scares the hell out of me
[03:07] <pitti> Kamion: since I need an AltGr/Super_L/whatever key to get []  {} @
[03:07] <sabdfl> hmm... jdub_ the gdm login screen has a different background colour, much lighter than the desktop
[03:08] <elmo> gdm and ephy built for all arches
[03:08] <elmo> just waiting on moz-ff for powerpc/amd64 now
[03:08] <sabdfl> pitti: let's not make any rushed decisions now
[03:08] <Kamion> pitti: just saying not to do it without *extensive* testing, that's all, I don't really have brain-space to think about it just now
[03:08] <sabdfl> elmo: is artwork done?
[03:08] <elmo> sabdfl: yeah
[03:08] <pitti> Why those Apple bastards just forgot to give me an AltGr key???
[03:08] <Kamion> ubuntu-artwork |   0.2.11-1 |         warty | all, source
[03:08] <daniels> jdub_: no, I never got a colour code
[03:08] <Kamion> that right?
[03:08] <sabdfl> pitti: let's figure this out tomorrow, after a good nights rest
[03:09] <daniels> fabbione: i don't have a patch, but I can make one
[03:09] <jdub_> sabdfl: yeah. i think the X background should be grey or something neutral, because the gdm and desktop will change.
[03:09] <pitti> fabbione: Seems that the change should be postponed
[03:09] <sabdfl> final changes in this week so it can bake over the weekend
[03:09] <daniels> if you want to risk an X build ...
[03:09] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox | 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu2 |         warty | amd64, powerpc
[03:09] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox | 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu3 |         warty | i386, source
[03:09] <sabdfl> jdub_: trying to avoid three changes
[03:09] <pitti> sabdfl: okay, if anybody uses the Apple key, we should not change the default
[03:09] <jdub_> sabdfl: and the gdm background should probably be the same.
[03:09] <Kamion> sabdfl: um, sorry, have to wait for the other firefox builds now, can't release with it inconsistent
[03:09] <thom> Kamion: ubuntu3 is what you want, indeed
[03:09] <jdub_> sabdfl: let's change X and gdm.
[03:09] <sabdfl> X background should be the same as gdm
[03:09] <pitti> sabdfl: at least I now know how to fix it easily if users ask :-)
[03:09] <elmo> amd64 is almost finished
[03:10] <daniels> sabdfl: are we talking post-RC here?
[03:10] <fabbione> daniels: just tell me where that stuff is.. i can patch and test it
[03:10] <daniels> sabdfl: or nownownow?
[03:10] <sabdfl> jdub_: i'd like the gdb login screen to look exactly as it does with the fixed image currently
[03:10] <sabdfl> just using components to place the pieces more approrpriately for widescreen etc
[03:10] <Kamion> pitti: FWIW, I use my Meta key for keyboard shortcuts like Meta-F1 to launch a terminal; it tends to collide with fewer things than Alt-F1 would
[03:10] <sabdfl> that would be gdm
[03:10] <sabdfl> daniels: post-rc
[03:10] <thom> elmo: you think firefox is finished, and then it builds a gazillion extensions...
[03:10] <jdub_> sabdfl: the 'background colour' used by gdm is independent of the gdmgreeter theme
[03:11] <sabdfl> oh?
[03:11] <elmo> thom: nah, I could tell it was doing make install :)
[03:11] <sabdfl> oh right it;s the colour underneath gnomesplash
[03:11] <jdub_> i'll explain:
[03:11] <elmo> amd64's built...
[03:11] <pitti> Kamion: we should leave it as it currently is; at least I know what to tell users who have this problem :-)
[03:11] <jdub_> - X starts with stipple (i suggest neutral grey)
[03:11] <pitti> Kamion, carlos: Thanks for testing! Hoary item.
[03:11] <jdub_> - gdm starts with BackgroundColor setting in gdm.conf
[03:11] <sabdfl> jdub_: this is where i want the gdmgreeter colour
[03:11] <Kamion> pitti: ok, sorry I don't mean to scupper l10n or anything, just saying people do use the Meta key
[03:12] <carlos> pitti: ok
[03:12] <jdub_> - if using gdmlogin, that's the background colour
[03:12] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. so we are going pc105 and no options, ok????
[03:12] <sabdfl> so you go from text, to a colour, then the gdm picture elements appear
[03:12] <Kamion> pitti: it could be changed only for layouts where AltGr's needed
[03:12] <pitti> fabbione: just as we have now, yes
[03:12] <jdub_> - if using gdmgreeter, the backgroundColor doesn't matter -> you're using a theme
[03:12] <lamont> amd64 moz build is cleaning up
[03:12] <lamont> (successful, of course)
[03:12] <sabdfl> jdub_: we are using the theme by default, right?
[03:12] <pitti> Kamion: difficult to detect, I think
[03:12] <thom> ppc doesn't have much longer i think
[03:12] <sabdfl> there is a colour display before the theme kicks
[03:12] <sabdfl> in
[03:12] <daniels> fabbione: xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/dix/window.c, MakeRootTile()
[03:12] <Kamion> pitti: detect? you'd just hardcode in the keyboard layouts :-)
[03:12] <carlos> Kamion: the funny thing is that the spanish keymap has the AltGR key with Fn+Alt
[03:12] <sabdfl> that colour should match the default theme
[03:13] <jdub_> - once you finish the login process, the gdm background colour now appears with the splash, etc.
[03:13] <sabdfl> fabbione: pitti: please DO NOT make big changes now
[03:13] <jdub_> - when the user's own background setting is loaded, it changes to their background
[03:13] <sabdfl> let's deal with those tomorrow
[03:13] <pitti> sabdfl: we already canceled it :-)
[03:13] <daniels> fabbione: you want to fill back with pixels of a certain colour, which is the gdm colour
[03:13] <rburton> seb128: i'm still seeing gconf notification disconnection -- is this known?
[03:13] <daniels> fabbione: i can take care of it when I wake up if you like -- I'm just falling asleep in my chair here
[03:14] <jdub_> to avoid excessive colour changes, i suggest using the same (neutral) colour to replace the X stipple and the gdm BackgroundColor
[03:14] <seb128> rburton: with what ?
[03:14] <jdub_> though that might be different from the gdmgreeter theme (which will change anyway)
[03:14] <sabdfl> jdub_: yes, and that colour should be the same as the basic colour of the default gdm theme we ship
[03:14] <sabdfl> with the three people
[03:14] <jdub> sabdfl: that's going to change, though.
[03:14] <sabdfl> when?
[03:15] <jdub> when either a) we have a new release or b) when the user changes it
[03:15] <sabdfl> jdub: if the user has changed it, then golden rule applies
[03:15] <sabdfl> otherwise, when we update the theme for next release, we pick colours accordingly
[03:15] <jdub> also, we should take into account the pre-X startup process
[03:15] <sabdfl> yes
[03:15] <jdub> sabdfl: they will never be able to choose the X stipple replacement colour
[03:16] <seb128> rburton: where do you get the problem ?
[03:16] <sabdfl> by default we set it to match our current defaults
[03:16] <sabdfl> if it's a real issue we can improve that part of X
[03:17] <fabbione> daniels: ok. i can wait for the patch tomorrow
[03:17] <elmo> amd64 installed
[03:17] <jdub> so by default, there would be one flat colour from X startup through to gdm theme (which would be more detailed, but same basic colour), then back to flat background until the desktop loads
[03:17] <sabdfl> elmo: of firefox?
[03:17] <elmo> yeah
[03:17] <elmo> powerpc's still building
[03:17] <sabdfl> do we have artwork on all three?
[03:18] <mdz> back
[03:18] <Kamion> artwork's arch: all
[03:18] <sabdfl> morning mdz
[03:18] <mdz> involuntary nap extension
[03:18] <elmo> sabdfl: yes
[03:18] <sabdfl> mdz: deserved, you haven't missed the release
[03:18] <lamont> mozilla-firefox:        00:53:44 (6 entries, sigma 00:43:59)
[03:18] <lamont> that'd be ppc, btw
[03:19] <lamont> amd64,i386 installed
[03:19] <lamont> "and elmo saw that it was good, and He called it a day"
[03:20] <thom> reboot, brb
[03:20] <fabbione> lol
[03:20] <lamont> ppc should be uploading sometime between :35 and :15 or so.. :-(
[03:20] <lamont> fabbione: that was just a hint, I don't _know_ that elmo has declared the beginning of a new day :-)
[03:21] <sabdfl> Kamion: so we should be good for RC then, with new artwork
[03:21] <Kamion> sabdfl: we have to wait for mozilla-firefox/powerpc now unfortunately, since the other two arches have it
[03:21] <lamont> Kamion: how long does the mastering take?
[03:22] <lamont> ISTR < 10 minutes to be sure.
[03:22] <jdub> supposedly my livecd download will be another 40min
[03:22] <Kamion> lamont: about 20 minutes
[03:22] <Kamion> lamont: jigdo has extended it; it's excessively difficult to run it later having disabled that, though
[03:23] <Kamion> (and my bug reports testify that we have people using jigdo already)
[03:23] <daniels> fabbione: k
[03:24] <sabdfl> ah
[03:24] <sabdfl> ok
[03:24] <mdz> what's happening with firefox?
[03:24] <sabdfl> can i do the usual livecd rsync
[03:24] <lamont> Kamion: then it sounds like we could build i386 and amd64 while we wait for ppc, yes?
[03:24] <sabdfl> mdz: updates to local homepage
[03:24] <jdub> now i've got 1:15 to wait for the live cd...
[03:24] <mdz> ah
[03:25] <mdz> we have a new live cd?
[03:25] <sabdfl> mdz: want to crash again, i can call you when we are ready to go
[03:25] <sabdfl> yes
[03:25] <Kamion> lamont: theoretically, but I'd really rather keep the build process as standard as possiblee
[03:25] <lamont> ah, true
[03:25] <Kamion> lamont: now is not the time for human-error-induced screwups
[03:25] <sabdfl> agreed Kamion
[03:25] <Kamion> mdz: alex silently dropped one into a directory I was using for testing and was about to blow away
[03:25] <elmo> Kamion: if not now, when??
[03:25] <elmo> oh, wait, that's what final is for.. I forgot
[03:25] <sabdfl> elmo: soon, soon :-)
[03:25] <mdz> Kamion: er, great
[03:25] <Kamion> elmo: I agree it'd be traditional :)
[03:26] <mdz> and he isn't here to coordinate the release
[03:26] <lamont> once the RC testing is done and dealt with, interested parties are directed to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty.iso, which should (in theory) be a liveCD built in the DC...
[03:26] <Kamion> mdz: I mailed him asking him to show up on IRC so we could interrogate him about what the image actually was :)
[03:26] <lamont> but use a CD-RW - the last one was coaster-quality.
[03:26] <Kamion> mdz: http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/releases/warty/rcc3/live-i386.iso
[03:26] <Kamion> (for now)
[03:26] <sabdfl> Kamion: is that rsyncable?
[03:26] <Kamion> sabdfl: yes, in the usual way for cdimage.u.o
[03:27] <mdz> ETA 40 minutes
[03:27] <jdub> just s/http/rsync/ and add cdimage/ before releases
[03:27] <Kamion> (cdimage.ubuntulinux.org::cdimage/releases/warty/rcc3/live-i386.iso
[03:27] <Kamion> )
[03:27] <mdz> rsync won't really help, in terms of saving bits to download, though
[03:27] <m_tthew> I am burning that image now, can report shortly.
[03:27] <mdz> the live CD is one big compressed blob
[03:27] <m_tthew> mdz: it helped some for me download
[03:28] <lamont> the diff between my two livecd images was only 487MB. :-(
[03:28] <jdub> m_tthew: it's not talklikeapirateday ;)
[03:28] <elmo> I think ppc is in the install phase now
[03:28] <lamont> elmo: yep
[03:29] <lamont> about 50 kb of log left to generate
[03:30] <lamont> dupload successfu
[03:30] <lamont> l
[03:30] <elmo> cron.daily's running now
[03:31] <lamont> ah, the joy of the tag-team bitch-slap build dance
[03:31] <Kamion> hi alex, thanks for coming
[03:31] <alextreme> gday
[03:31] <lamont> g'day
[03:31] <Kamion> alextreme: do I gather correctly that /releases/warty/rcc3/live-i386.iso is the new live CD you've produced?
[03:32] <elmo> Updating master mirrors...
[03:32] <alextreme> yup, sorry for throwing it in there, thought it was set up for the RC
[03:32] <elmo> Daily cron scripts successful.
[03:32] <Kamion> alextreme: no problem, I was just a little surprised because I was about to go and blow that directory away and then spotted your image :)
[03:32] <alextreme> it's also on chinstrap, so it wouldn't have been much of an issue :)
[03:32] <Kamion> alextreme: OK, so roughly when was that built?
[03:32] <alextreme> Kamion: yesterday evening
[03:33] <Kamion> just so we know which of the last-minute fixes it has
[03:33] <mdz> so, none of them :-)
[03:33] <lamont> if my build works, then it has everything before the ubuntu-artwork change of jdubs
[03:33] <Kamion> ok, that may be fine for the live CD of course
[03:33] <elmo> and we're all done
[03:33] <Kamion> epiphany-browser | 1.4.4-0ubuntu2 |         warty | amd64, i386, powerpc, source
[03:34] <Kamion>        gdm | 2.6.0.3-1ubuntu20 |         warty | amd64, i386, powerpc, source
[03:34] <mdz> alextreme: lamont has produced a live CD using the automated process, but it apparently didn't function
[03:34] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox | 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu3 |         warty | amd64, i386, powerpc, source
[03:34] <Kamion> ubuntu-artwork |   0.2.11-1 |         warty | all, source
[03:34] <Kamion> good to go?
[03:34] <alextreme> mdz: any clues on what went wrong?
[03:34] <mdz> lamont: ?
[03:35] <fabbione> GO KAMION GO!
[03:35] <fabbione> ;)
 once the RC testing is done and dealt with, interested parties are directed to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty.iso, which should (in theory) be a liveCD built in the DC...
[03:35] <Kamion> alextreme: OK, I think our plan for now is to publish the RC first with the install CD only (since it's in about an hour and a half), but to add the live CD later today once a few people have had time to test it
[03:36] <alextreme> Kamion: sounds good
[03:36] <lamont> alextreme: that was the one without the local warthog packages.
[03:36] <alextreme> lamont: cool, i'll give it a spin lateron
[03:36] <alextreme> ahh, then it probably wouldn't init properly
[03:36] <lamont> the new one as of this morning (and hence with almost all the fixes), is the one above.
[03:36] <m_tthew> alextreme: re, lamont's previous livecd build: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/tmp/warty-livecd-2004-10-11-lamont1.png
[03:37] <mdz> lamontt: you'll need to build another one anyway, no?
[03:37] <lamont> alextreme: failed to mount root
[03:37] <lamont> fs
[03:37] <lamont> m_tthew: thanks
[03:37] <m_tthew> alextreme: I am too follish to figure out how to make the livecd's grub talk to serial
[03:37] <lamont> btw, cool data transfer technique. :-)
[03:37] <m_tthew> lamont: np
[03:37] <sabdfl> lamont: which is that?
[03:37] <lamont> I found it, resourceful.
[03:37] <alextreme> m_tthew: hehehe
[03:37] <lamont> sabdfl: he took a pic of the display.
[03:38] <lamont> that or he's a _GOD_ with gimp.
[03:38] <mdz> seb128: why a new totem and gnome-applets at the last minute?
[03:38] <m_tthew> heh, moreso the former.
[03:38] <sabdfl> who? which?
[03:38] <sabdfl> for what?
[03:38] <Kamion> 14:37 < m_tthew> alextreme: re, lamont's previous livecd build: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/tmp/warty-livecd-2004-10-11-lamont1.png
[03:38] <sabdfl> ah
[03:38] <seb128> mdz: the new totem has only 1 change, a crasher fix with the "play CD" entry
[03:38] <rburton> jdub: so my co-worker who is also running ubuntu just said "hmmmm breasts"
[03:39] <jdub> yeah.
[03:39] <rburton> i'm tempted to logout myself
[03:39] <lamont> sabdfl: history: lamont builds a liveCD coaster, m_tthew tests, takes pic, lamont talks to alex, builds another.
[03:39] <seb128> mdz: and the gnome-applets to fix a bug reported by pitti this morning (weather locations broken)
[03:39] <jdub> rburton: i have already heard "wanking warthog"
[03:39] <sabdfl> gotcha
[03:39] <Kamion> jdub: doesn't seem like ideal PR
[03:39] <seb128> mdz: the gnome-applets was a typo fix in an xml file
[03:39] <alextreme> lamont: sounds like sound QA ;)
[03:39] <carlos> jdub: are the icon theme finished?
[03:39] <sabdfl> jdub: where you get your warts is your own business
[03:39] <lamont> alextreme: yep
[03:39] <jdub> carlos: nah, not ready for release unfortunately
[03:40] <jdub> carlos: you can try the icon theme though
[03:40] <jdub> sabdfl: haw haw ;)
[03:40] <jdub> Kamion: so i used to work in a cookery book shop
[03:40] <lamont> us prudish US types will have challenges with some of the artwork..
[03:40] <sabdfl> guys, when it comes to PR, the important this is that they spell our name right
[03:40] <alextreme> Kamion: so there have been a few fixes this morning? could rebuild and reupload this evening
[03:40] <sabdfl> ubuntu
[03:40] <sabdfl> not ubunto
[03:40] <carlos> jdub: ok, It's just I have the WebDAV icon with the gorilla one instead of ubuntu, if it's not finished I will not report it as a bug :-)
[03:40] <sabdfl> or obonto
[03:40] <rburton> that is the luckiest ubuntu logo in the world
[03:40] <jdub> Kamion: only specialist in .au (which has a huge market here) big mail order business
[03:40] <Kamion> alextreme: right; are you subscribed to warty-changes?
[03:41] <alextreme> Kamion: nope
[03:41] <jdub> carlos: that's a bug in the current icons them
[03:41] <jdub> carlos: please report
[03:41] <Kamion> alextreme: it's on lists.ubuntu.com, might be useful for you
[03:41] <jdub> Kamion: there's a book called "the cake bible"
[03:41] <mdz> seb128: we should not make any changes at this point unless they are critical for the release candidate
[03:41] <Kamion> well, the racier the artwork is the fewer people I'll be willing to show it to *shrug*
[03:41] <carlos> jdub: but does it exists with ubuntu?
[03:41] <jdub> Kamion: numerous times it was returned from customs in saudi arabia, etc. :-)
[03:41] <alextreme> Kamion: i'll put the archive in my bookmarks, but am on too many lists already :)
[03:41] <mdz> Kamion, lamont: you guys do realize that it isn't shown by default?
[03:41] <jdub> carlos: the default icon theme atm is the gnome one
[03:41] <sabdfl> Kamion: the default is not racy
[03:41] <seb128> mdz: the crasher was pretty bad, and the second was a typo a << instead of < broken the xml file ... 
[03:41] <jdub> carlos: so if you see problems with it, please report them
[03:42] <lamont> alextreme: want me to send you the log from my build so you can see if there's anything obviously coaster-producing in it?
[03:42] <lamont> mdz: understood
[03:42] <tseng> i dont find any of those to be "racy".
[03:42] <alextreme> lamont: yes, please
[03:42] <carlos> jdub: sorry, it's the gnome one, not gorilla 
[03:42] <lamont> alextreme: as soon as it finishes..
[03:42] <jdub> sabdfl: i may need to expense a cricket bat. need one to teach lifeless to pronounce ubuntu correctly.
[03:42] <seb128> mdz: BTW I've a fix for data corruption happening sometime with ftp transferts (and possible http) in nautilus ready to upload if we still have time
[03:42] <Kamion> mdz: I thought several people were commenting on the images other than the wallpaper
[03:42] <mdz> seb128: please wait until after the candidate is out
[03:42] <sabdfl> erm... line him up for cloning first, would ya?
[03:42] <Kamion> jdub: teach him to pronounce Debian while you're at it :)
[03:42] <seb128> mdz: ok
[03:43] <mdz> Kamion: oh, haven't seen the gdm stuff yet
[03:43] <sabdfl> and, erh arch
[03:43] <jdub> 02:47  * dalderman loves the nipples on gdm now :-)
[03:43] <mdz> oh, yes I have
[03:43] <mdz> it's not racy
[03:43] <jdub> Kamion: he uses his heritage as an excuse for pronouncing everything incorrectly. gotta beat the sheep out of him.
[03:43] <jdub> mdz: not racy, but it must be a bit chilly.
[03:43] <sabdfl> just don't accidentally beat him into the sheep
[03:43] <sabdfl> no, that was just me taking the photo
[03:43] <Keybuk> jdub: give daniels a beating for mis-pronouncing route while you're at it :)
[03:44] <jdub> sabdfl: he's a bit of a dag already. :)
[03:44] <Kamion> sabdfl: I was trying to come up with a similar pun but decided against it :)
[03:44] <Kamion> I think I concluded that isn't possible
[03:45] <lamont> is there a pic of the gdm screen anywhere?
[03:45] <jdub> Kamion: gconf-editor
[03:45] <Kamion> jdub: ah, ok
[03:45] <sabdfl> Kamion: we should try to make that themable for hoary
[03:45] <sabdfl> jdub: could that be part of a theme?
[03:45] <jdub> it's changeable, but it so doesn't need to be themeable ;)
[03:45] <jdub> that said, it could be defined as part of a metatheme
[03:46] <sabdfl> i guess we do need to be able to remove the people from the theme altogether for some users
[03:46] <jdub> (btw, i left the just-logo splash on the disk, so admins can switch to that instead)
[03:46] <jdub> just a matter of a gconf default change
[03:46] <sabdfl> which is the "login in a new window" package?
[03:47] <jdub> sabdfl: it's part of gdm, but you need to install xnest to see the menu entry
[03:47] <sabdfl> ok
[03:47] <rburton> jdub: how about a version of the splash without the ubuntu logo? ;)
[03:47] <Kamion> hm, didn't seem to work, I wonder if I changed the right key
[03:47] <dalderman> jdub: yeah, the logo is in the wrong place
[03:47] <jdub> rburton: it offends you more than erect nipples?
[03:47] <jdub> oh
[03:47] <jdub> right
[03:47] <jdub> haw haw
[03:47] <jdub> very funny
[03:48] <sabdfl> Kamion: you don't like it that much?
[03:48] <rburton> i'm just being bawdy
[03:48] <dalderman> we have no women in our office at the moment :-(
[03:48] <dalderman> far too much testosterone in here
[03:48] <Kamion> sabdfl: just anticipating raised eyebrows from family
[03:48] <Kamion> it's suggestive rather than there actually being anything wrong with it
[03:48] <jdub> sabdfl: already have two people asking how to switch the logo for their rollouts.
[03:49] <Kamion> hm, is it not /apps/gnome-session/options/splash_image then?
[03:49] <rburton> for $MEGACORP its a little suggestive
[03:49] <rburton> put them in suits?
[03:49] <tseng> getsweaaa.com/~tseng/new-gdm.png for whoever asked
[03:49] <jdub> Kamion: that's it
[03:49] <dalderman> most corporate places are full of short fat hairy people, it's just going to make them feel inadequate :-)
[03:50] <Kamion> jdub: uh, ok, it would help if I weren't a moron
[03:51] <Kamion> (yes, works)
[03:52] <sabdfl> so what is the alternative image?
[03:52] <Kamion> the one we had up to yesterday's still installed and available, it seems
[03:52] <mdz> Kamion: are you sure you can't turn that off without risking the stability of the rest of the process?
[03:52] <dalderman> I can arrange a nice half nakes one of rburton if you like :-)
[03:52] <Kamion> mdz: I can, but I am not convinced I can reliably generate the .jigdo and .templates files later
[03:53] <Kamion> for ten minutes I don't think it's worth the complexity of trying to work that out
[03:53] <lamont> so is the male model that much taller than the other two, or am I just misinterpreting the picture?
[03:53] <mdz> I don't mind if we don't have .jigdo for the release candidate
[03:53] <Kamion> too late :-)
[03:54] <sabdfl> lamont: try the calendar desktop :-)
[03:54] <lamont> sabdfl: I'm still _downloading_ stuff..
[03:54] <sabdfl> jdub: how's it look?
[03:54] <jdub> ubuntu is so much pr0n.
[03:54] <jdub> good
[03:55] <Kamion> CDs up
[03:55] <sabdfl> Whooooot!
[03:55] <rburton> jdub: i still get hangs on shutdown...
[03:55] <sabdfl> can i update the web site?
[03:55] <lamont> although I'mstarting to question the term "release candidate"... :-)
[03:55] <mdz> we should, er, test the images first :-)
[03:55] <jdub> IT BUILDS SHIP IT
[03:55] <Kamion> sabdfl: they're only in /daily/current as yet
[03:55] <Kamion> give us an hour to hammer them :)
[03:55] <rburton> jdub: COCKFOSTERS
[03:56] <sabdfl> pants off, hammer them. uh. jdub, don't do that.
[03:56] <lamont> it would be good for corporate america to have the defaults not include any significantly suggestive photos...
[03:56] <jdub> already there.
[03:56] <jdub> i just booted, remember.
[03:56] <mdz> lamont: can we get a live CD build which is in sync with the latest rcc?
[03:56] <lamont> mdz: it's building, hopefully will boot..
[03:57] <mdz> rsyncing daily/current
[03:57] <mdz> hmm, apparently carlos decided today would be a good day to start testing ubuntu :-)
[03:58] <fabbione> mdz: ahahhahaha
[03:58] <fabbione> mdz: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~fabbione/boom
[03:58] <mdz> fabbione: ???
[03:58] <carlos> mdz: well, I'm testing it since long ago, but I had some bug reports in my queue O:-)
[03:59] <rburton> i wonder how long after release it will be for someone to make a pr0n version of the human theme?
[03:59] <fabbione> boom = X changelog for ubuntu25
[04:00] <pitti> fabbione: first and second + are duplicates :-)
[04:00] <carlos> rburton: a friend asked me if it will be more pr0n with every month update :-P
[04:00] <fabbione> pitti: ops
[04:01] <pitti> fabbione: not really RC, though :-)
[04:01] <mdz> fabbione: we are only fixing RC bugs right now
[04:02] <fabbione> mdz: the frequency stuff is RC
[04:02] <thom> mdz: would you hurt me significantly if i fix the mono stuffs to build on amd64 at some point in the next week?
[04:02] <fabbione> mdz: the XKB stuff too
[04:02] <fabbione> mdz: every fix for the XKB = a slightly longer life for me
[04:02] <mdz> thom: of course not, right after the RC bugs are closed
[04:03] <mdz> fabbione: the last XKB changes imported from Debian broke things
[04:03] <fabbione> mdz: the rest is documentation and absolutely non introsive changes
[04:03] <mdz> we should not be making these changes now
[04:03] <fabbione> mdz: there was only one regression and apparently the fix is clear
[04:04] <thom> mdz: that was kinda what i meant, yes
[04:05] <fabbione> mdz: 2288 is the "regression" and we can argue forever if it is a X problem or a gnome problem
[04:05] <mdz> 2288 is not an RC bug
[04:05] <lamont> alextreme: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/liveCD.out.gz
[04:05] <alextreme> lamont: ta
[04:06] <fabbione> mdz: only because it has been opened as normal
[04:06] <mdz> fabbione: I am looking at the bug and it is not RC
[04:06] <alextreme> lamont: crap, forgot to include the makedev dependancy
[04:07] <lamont> so it's a coaster?
[04:07] <alextreme> yup
[04:07] <lamont> what do I change where?
[04:07] <alextreme> i'll go poke around some more, bound to be more issues
[04:07] <alextreme> lemme check...
[04:07] <lamont> brb
[04:08] <fabbione> mdz: ok.. whatever you think it's fine for me, but seriously.. we will get a hell load of reports for that
[04:08] <fabbione> mdz: no more than what we got in debian
[04:09] <alextreme> lamont: apt-get install makedev on the buildmachine as a workaround, will fix cvs now and make a new package later on
[04:09] <thom> mdz: heh, just got a mid-air collision with you on the homepage bug 
[04:10] <mdz> fabbione: I know that you want it to be perfect, but it cannot be. at some point we must leave it alone because we have a release to make
[04:11] <lamont> alextreme: ah, so it just needs to be there on the building machine?
[04:11] <alextreme> lamont: should do the trick
[04:11] <alextreme> lamont: Failed to fetch file:/local/warthog/./Packages.gz  File not found
[04:12] <thom> mdz: can i help test your portmap fixes?
[04:12] <mdz> thom: absolutely
[04:12] <mdz> thom: there's a debdiff attached to #505
[04:12] <lamont> alextreme: does it not like file: urls?
[04:12] <thom> ah, cool
[04:12] <fabbione> mdz: Denis work on XKB is the ONLY good source for fixes in that mess. I know we have a release to make. I also have a responsability towards our users to give them the best. sorry if it sounds retoric (yeah itaglish) but that's the only reason why i push so much on X
[04:13] <alextreme> lamont: guess not, probably due to it apt-getting in the chroot
[04:13] <lamont> that'd do it.
[04:13] <lamont> anything about those 3 packages that makes them not want to be world-fetchable?
[04:13] <T-Bone> l.a.d.u.d.e!
[04:13] <lamont> or some such
[04:14] <fabbione> mdz: which changes do you want me to revert?
[04:14] <mdz> fabbione: let's look at it together tomorrow, after the RC is out
[04:15] <fabbione> mdz: ok
[04:15] <fabbione> mdz: tomorrow i will be 99% moving to the secondary office
[04:15] <fabbione> so i expect to be up and running again around 8 UTC
[04:15] <mdz> fabbione: I do not consider X to have any showstopper bugs at this time
[04:15] <alextreme> lamont: not really, mostly use my local webserver when building and only upload stuff that actually works ;)
[04:16] <fabbione> mdz: the frequency thing is the reason why some people were getting a 640x480 screen and they couldn't go out of it
[04:16] <fabbione> mdz: it's a 3 lines diff -u
[04:16] <thom> first complaint on the users list
[04:16] <thom> about the theme
[04:16] <alextreme> lamont: something odd is happening right at the end, deb-get downloads the udebs but they don't seem to be extracted
[04:16] <mdz> thom: militant?
[04:17] <thom> mdz: "conservative and uncomfortable"
[04:18] <alextreme> lamont: it's a messy script, but running those commands again should give a clue what's happening
[04:18] <Kamion> we did get an unexpectedly large number of compliments about the old theme
[04:19] <mdz> the delta on the current daily is huge
[04:19] <mdz> only just got amd64 down
[04:19] <alextreme> lamont: cd /tmp/libmorphix-u2uloT && /usr/bin/deb-get grub-gfxboot-iso-udeb
[04:20] <alextreme> lamont: the udeb is being downloaded, but doesn't seem to appear in the build directory
[04:20] <lamont> alextreme: it says "Can't open configuration file
[04:20] <alextreme> lamont: /usr/bin/deb-get -r http://www.morphix.org/debian/udeb
[04:20] <thom> mdz: good grief, does that mean i beat you? :-)
[04:21] <Kamion> whoa, you're using udebs?
[04:21] <alextreme> Kamion: don't worry, they won't clash :)
[04:21] <Kamion> ok :)
[04:21] <mdz> hmmm
[04:21] <mdz> i386 was way faster
[04:21] <Kamion> scary
[04:21] <mdz> that is not very encouraging
[04:22] <Kamion> @ERROR: Unknown module 'cdimage'
[04:22] <Kamion> aargh. thom/elmo!
[04:22] <Kamion> archive.ubuntulinux.org apparently round-robins to the machine that's serving releases.u.c
[04:22] <Kamion> which does not know about the 'ubuntu' and 'cdimage' modules
[04:24] <m_tthew> alextreme: this is all deprecated by the new livecd underway, but: http://www.ice-nine.org/matt/ubuntu/warty/livecd/
[04:24] <m_tthew> alextreme: dmesg, lsmod, and lspci output -- I had no mouse (I use a USB logitech)
[04:25] <lamont> m_tthew: the last coaster was short a few device files... :-(
[04:25] <elmo> Kamion: uh
[04:25] <alextreme> m_tthew: was this from the RC version, or from the one from last week?
[04:25] <elmo> we've been pointing people at rsync://archive.ubuntu.com/ ??
[04:25] <m_tthew> lamont: d'oh
[04:25] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/ubuntu/cdimage>$ rsync archive.ubuntulinux.org::
[04:25] <Kamion> releases        Ubuntu Release CD Images
[04:25] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/ubuntu/cdimage>$ rsync archive.ubuntulinux.org::
[04:25] <Kamion> ubuntu          Ubuntu Archive
[04:25] <Kamion> cdimage         Ubuntu CD Images
[04:25] <lamont> m_tthew: and was it from me, or the one alex uploaded?
[04:25] <elmo> yeah, I know
[04:25] <Kamion> elmo: that's been in sounder release announcements since ages
[04:25] <m_tthew> alextreme: this is from your build of .. yesterday morning I believe you said? The one Kamion moved out of rc3/
[04:25] <elmo> bah
[04:26] <Kamion> elmo: even discounting cdimage rsyncers, aren't regular archive mirrors using archive.u.o?
[04:26] <Kamion> it'll fail half the time for them, too
[04:26] <elmo> why did we set up cdimage.u.c if we weren't going to use it?
[04:26] <alextreme> m_tthew: scary stuff, thanks for the info
[04:26] <elmo> kamion: http works
[04:26] <Kamion> sure, rsync doesn't though
[04:26] <m_tthew> alextreme: no problem, I will test the one currently being built soon as you guys lemme know it's ready to download.
[04:27] <Kamion> elmo: I'm not sure why we weren't using cdimage in release announcements; I'll make sure to do so from now on
[04:28] <elmo> I've reverted archive.* back to just auckland
[04:28] <alextreme> m_tthew: it probably will take some bugfixing to get right, i'll do a partial rebuild and some testing once i get behind my buildmachine later on
[04:28] <lamont> sabdfl: the one that scares me most about the new themes is explaining it to my daughter's 12-year-old friend's mother, after he installs ubuntu on my recommendation...
[04:29] <sabdfl> lamont: HE won't be upset.
[04:29] <lamont> that, and pictures of people on the desktop are just plain distracting.
[04:29] <lamont> sabdfl: don't care what he thinks.
[04:29] <sabdfl> lamont: they are not the default
[04:29] <Kamion> this is what the Mozilla people would call an "Evangelism bug", I think
[04:29] <lamont> including on the login screen?
[04:29] <sabdfl> ok, let's see where the dust settles
[04:30] <pitti> carlos: I did not find out how to create an HFS+ file system under Linux. Did the previous pmount (which did umask=007) work for the iPod as expected?
[04:30] <Kamion> pitti: 'man hfsplus'
[04:31] <carlos> pitti: I can send you a file with an empty HFS+ file system if you want
[04:31] <pitti> Kamion: it contains a lot of tools, but none to create a filesystem
[04:31] <thom> right, reboot for GREAT JUSTICE
[04:31] <carlos> pitti: I think so, but I need to recheck it to be sure (I did not saw any problem)
[04:31] <pitti> carlos: that'd be nice
[04:31] <elmo> bloody rsync needs vhosting
[04:31] <pitti> carlos: mdz reverted the umask because umask=007 is interpreted totally wrong for hfs
[04:32] <carlos> pitti: btw, did you saw my bugreport about hal not seeing my iPod anymore?
[04:32] <Kamion> pitti: so it doesn't
[04:32] <Kamion> Greek install time
[04:32] <pitti> carlos: I saw the notification mail, but did not yet look at the report
[04:32] <carlos> pitti: ok
[04:32] <carlos> pitti: I have 0.1-6
[04:32] <lamont> alextreme: /usr/sbin/mkminiroot-morphix: line 58: Found: command not found
[04:32] <lamont> le huh?
[04:32] <Kamion> elmo: or make both of them have all three rsync modules, I guess ...
[04:32] <carlos> which version should I test?
[04:33] <elmo> kamion: I can't - cdimage is too big
[04:33] <carlos> (talking about pmount)
[04:33] <Kamion> elmo: ah :-(
[04:34] <Kamion> elmo: I can temporarily shrink it but I'm sure it'd grow again, daily builds being what they are ...
[04:34] <Kamion> I should set up auto-pruning
[04:34] <Keybuk> jdub: is there any particular reason ubuntu-artwork isn't 1.0 or 4.10 ?
[04:34] <pitti> carlos: ugh, that sounds bad. the last intrusive change has been on Sept 27...
[04:34] <Keybuk> likewise ubuntu-base and ubuntu-desktop
[04:34] <pitti> carlos: lshal does not contain anything?
[04:34] <lamont> for udeb in $UDEBS
[04:34] <lamont> do
[04:34] <lamont>   `cd /tmp && deb-get $udeb`
[04:34] <lamont> done
[04:34] <elmo> Kamion: unfortunately the free machines we have aren't nearly as well endowed storage wise - you'd have to shrink it to like 35Gb for it to fit
[04:35] <lamont> I, um, think those want to be () ,not ``
[04:35] <jdub> Keybuk: NOW IS NOT THE TIME
[04:35] <jdub> ;)
[04:35] <carlos> pitti: wait, let me finish the check you asked me and then we come back to hal :-)
[04:35] <Kamion> (not to mention quoting "$udeb" thus
[04:35] <Kamion> )
[04:36] <lamont> Kamion: it needs quotes?
[04:36] <Keybuk> jdub: you didn't think of that, did you? :o)
[04:36] <carlos> pitti: which version of pmount should I test?
[04:36] <alextreme> lamont: did you install the recommended packages? :)
[04:36] <pitti> carlos: 0.1-5
[04:36] <jdub> Keybuk: i just stuck with the existing numbering ;)
[04:36] <lamont> alextreme: what are recommends? :-)
[04:36] <Kamion> lamont: shell variable expansions always need quoting unless you have a very good reason not to
[04:36] <lamont> Kamion: true
[04:37] <Kamion> 'for udeb in $UDEBS' is a good reason where you don't want quoting around $UDEBS.
[04:37] <lamont> alextreme: if it has to be there, then it's not a recommends...
[04:37] <Kamion> crap, my i386 CD burnt badly
[04:37] <lamont> alextreme: what package do I need to have there
[04:37] <lamont> ?
[04:37] <alextreme> lamont: yeah yeah, i'm not a DD :)
[04:37] <alextreme> lamont: une momento...
[04:37] <thom> install0r1s1ng kernel
[04:37] <alextreme> lamont: mkminiroot-morphix, morphix-deb-get, morphix-make-iso
[04:37] <thom> copying every bastard thing on the planet on the cd
[04:38] <pitti> carlos: soory to bother you with all this :-)
[04:38] <carlos> pitti: no problem
[04:38] <lamont> ii  mkminiroot-mor 0.1-5          creates a miniroot/initrd for Morphix using 
[04:38] <carlos> pitti: ok, pmount /dev/sda3
[04:38] <lamont> ii  morphix-deb-ge 0.2-2          Script to retrieve packages from repositorie
[04:38] <lamont> ii  morphix-make-i 0.2-2          Script to build a Morphix iso from a directo
[04:38] <m_tthew> thom: we are almost sychronized
[04:38] <carlos> any other argument?
[04:38] <pitti> carlos: are the permissions on the device correct?
[04:38] <thom> archiver-copier is really boring
[04:38] <carlos> pitti: /dev/sda3 on /media/sda3 type hfsplus (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev,sync,umask=007,uid=1000,gid=1000)
[04:38] <pitti> carlos: i. e. not world-readable/writeable
[04:39] <lamont> alextreme: but the `` on that line are causing the shell to attempt to _EXECUTE_ the _OUTPUT_ of the command, after it runs...
[04:39] <pitti> carlos: ls -l /media/sda3
[04:39] <lamont> I can't see how that could be what we want
[04:39] <carlos> pitti: no, they are world readable
[04:39] <pitti> carlos: (only one or two examples)
[04:39] <mdz> i386, powerpc and amd64 underway
[04:39] <carlos> drwxr--r--    1 carlos   carlos          2 2004-08-21 12:06 Calendars
[04:39] <carlos> drwxr--r--    1 carlos   carlos          4 2004-08-21 12:06 Contacts
[04:39] <pitti> carlos: okay, that means that hfsplus does not respect umask.
[04:39] <alextreme> lamont: une momento...
[04:39] <pitti> carlos: that's what I wanted to know, thanks a lot! :-)
[04:40] <jdub> OH BONG
[04:40] <carlos> pitti: no problem, if you want I could "fix" it with my patch (but will be for hoary)
[04:40] <jdub> the fricking bullet points in the on-disk home page are off-disk
[04:40] <Kamion> jdub: ?
[04:40] <Kamion> d'oh
[04:40] <thom> jdub: HFSNW
[04:40] <jdub> thom: W!
[04:40] <pitti> carlos: I was asked for umask=007 in case you store gpg keys and such on your memory stick
[04:40] <lamont> jdub: s/rc/preview2/
[04:41] <jdub> haha
[04:41] <Keybuk> jdub: though I do like the new login screen
[04:41] <carlos> pitti: I don't see the problem with hfs+ then, it does not work for it, that all, right? but it will work with other filesystems
[04:41] <Keybuk> (install just finished)
[04:42] <jdub> Keybuk: yeah, that image works so nicely for it
[04:42] <pitti> carlos: I wanted to know whether it breaks similarly to hfs; for hfs, umask=007 means that all files are 007!
[04:42] <thom> "the hardware clock says the time is now ."
[04:42] <carlos> pitti: hfs or hfs+?
[04:42] <pitti> thom: now is always a good time to be at :-)
[04:43] <pitti> carlos: hfs
[04:43] <carlos> oh, I tested it as hfs+
[04:43] <Kamion> maybe hwclock didn't produce sensible output
[04:43] <carlos> let me recheck it as hfs
[04:43] <pitti> carlos: right, that's what I wanted
[04:43] <thom> Kamion: amd64, no rtc access
[04:43] <pitti> carlos: I can check hfs for myself (hfsutils)
[04:43] <carlos> does pmount accept -t hfs?
[04:43] <Kamion> thom: heh, I thought we'd fixed that bug
[04:43] <thom> (cos the module ain't loaded)
[04:43] <pitti> carlos: no
[04:43] <thom> seems not
[04:43] <carlos> then I cannot test it now
[04:43] <Kamion> oopsie
[04:43] <pitti> carlos: it autodetects the filesystem
[04:44] <carlos> hmm, well, I could "remove" hfsplus driver
[04:44] <thom> i shall get useful dmesg in a bit and file bugses
[04:44] <pitti> carlos: no need, I know everything that I wanted and need
[04:44] <carlos> ok
[04:44] <pitti> carlos: thanks
[04:44] <Kamion> thom: I think I've already got a bug about rtc not being loaded
[04:44] <thom> i won't bother then.
[04:44] <thom> even better
[04:44] <thom> :-)
[04:45] <carlos> pitti: about the hal problem, lshal does not list my ipod anymore
[04:45] <pitti> carlos: do you know whether it worked with any 0.2.98 version?
[04:45] <pitti> carlos: i. e. anytime after September 27?
[04:45] <carlos> pitti: the problem was with latest update
[04:45] <pitti> carlos: should, other people reported it to work
[04:45] <Kamion> amd64 successful
[04:46] <thom> i still think the steel grey watermark background is the best of the lot
[04:46] <mdz> amd64 and powerpc in aptitude, i386 in archive-copier
[04:46] <pitti> carlos: odd, the last change was just removing some digital camera fdi files
[04:46] <lamont> thom: grey is much softer on the eyes than brown
[04:46] <thom> amd64 just about to finish aptitude
[04:46] <pitti> carlos: can you please verify that reverting to ubuntu7 works?
[04:46] <lamont> or so ISTR from the ergo folks
[04:47] <Keybuk> ok, I just logged in and got only a black background
[04:48] <Keybuk> and the desktop background dialog crashes when I open it
[04:48] <thom> registering documentation
[04:48] <carlos> pitti: verified
[04:48] <mdz> Keybuk: nice
[04:48] <carlos> installed the ubuntu7 version and nautilus show me the iPod directory automatically
[04:48] <pitti> carlos: what the hell do the camera fdi files have to do with iPods? *grumble*
[04:49] <carlos> pitti: don't know :-P
[04:49] <mdz> pitti: perhaps the autoreconf broke it
[04:49] <amu> hehe the new theme must be x-rated   
[04:49] <pitti> carlos: Can I send you a test deb?
[04:50] <carlos> pitti: by mail or URL, don't think my firewall will let you send it by irc (you could try, of cours)
[04:50] <thom> and we have gdm
[04:50] <thom> rock
[04:50] <pitti> mdz: maybe, but it was autoreconfed before. Well, it's worth a try
[04:50] <mdz> pitti: check the debdiff
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: i386 or powerpc? I only have an i386 deb at the moment
[04:51] <carlos> ppc
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: can you build it yourself?
[04:51] <carlos> I don't have firewire in my pc
[04:51] <carlos> pitti: sure
[04:51] <pitti> carlos: okay, I mail you diff.gz and .dsc
[04:52] <Keybuk> ok... that's *really* weird
[04:52] <carlos> ok
[04:52] <Keybuk> gconf-editor won't even let me look at the background key
[04:53] <mdz> amd64 success
[04:53] <thom> yeah, +1 for amd64 here
[04:54] <pitti> carlos: you have it 
[04:55] <Keybuk> ah, fixed it ... was my fault :p
[04:55] <carlos> pitti: don't see the mail
[04:56] <alextreme> lamont: back, did take a quick look at it and it should boot. got some new packages to fix the issues you were having, should hit m.org/debian shortly
[04:56] <thom> Keybuk: ... shock
[04:56] <Keybuk> thom: had checked how the widescreen stuff had been done by opening in vi
[04:56] <Keybuk> there was a stray "i" left in the file
[04:56] <pitti> carlos: I sent it to carlos@pemas.net
[04:57] <carlos> I got it
[04:59] <mdz> powerpc success
[04:59] <mdz> anyone had a successful i386 install yet? mine is registering docs
[05:00] <carlos> mdz: same here, powerpc installation was right, need to test it
[05:00] <m_tthew> mdz: I am in aptitude, watching the Selecting... Unpacking... shuffle
[05:01] <carlos> jdub: the gdm login screen does not shows "Contrasea" (password in spanish)  but "Contrase" the rest of the word is under the input field
[05:01] <mdz> i386 successful
[05:01] <mdz> Kamion: 3 for 3
[05:02] <mdz> pitti: FYI, my card reader works as expected with the RC
[05:02] <pitti> mdz: graet, some good news :-)
[05:02] <pitti> mdz: my devices work well, too
[05:03] <mdz> pitti: sabdfl has a problem with a pen drive which worked previously
[05:03] <pitti> rburton: does your iPod work with the latest hal (i. e. with the RC)
[05:03] <rburton> pitti: it works as long as i don't mount/unmount/eject quickly
[05:03] <pitti> mdz: I created a hal version without any autotool file changes, carlos currently tests it
[05:03] <thom> pitti: my usb card disk works fine
[05:04] <pitti> mdz: I cannot imagine how the autotools stuff should break such things, but who knows...
[05:04] <pitti> thom: thx
[05:04] <Keybuk> pitti: just tried the camera, it takes about 10-15 seconds to appear -- and I get both an "sda1" window+icon rather than anything descriptive, but it works
[05:04] <carlos> pitti: seems to be working now
[05:04] <pitti> Keybuk: sometimes I had that as well - absurdly long delays
[05:04] <carlos> pitti: do you want the .deb fileS?
[05:04] <pitti> carlos: with the new hal?
[05:05] <carlos> pitti: yes
[05:05] <mdz> lamont: how goes the live CD?
[05:05] <pitti> carlos: well, I could put them into my unofficial utopia repository
[05:05] <Keybuk> pitti: looking at syslog it's actually making sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sde, sdf, sdg, etc. as well
[05:05] <pitti> carlos: I can compile them myself if necessary, though
[05:05] <sabdfl> pitti: my pen drive isn't firing up a window when i plug it in
[05:05] <pitti> Keybuk: so many nodes for one device?
[05:05] <pitti> sabdfl: i386?
[05:05] <sabdfl> pitti: yes
[05:06] <Keybuk> pitti: they're just device nodes, there's only an sda1
[05:06] <mdz> pitti: did you revert the removal of the freedesktop stuff as well?  or patch that into Makefile.in?
[05:06] <Keybuk> CD works
[05:06] <Keybuk> (btw, for hoary, do you have any idea how to get these things to have useful names like "CD-ROM" and "Camera" instead of hdc/sda1?)
[05:06] <pitti> mdz: I reverted the removal of the fdi file that is upstream, because that one does not break cameras
[05:06] <pitti> sabdfl: I can send you a test deb
[05:07] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[05:07] <pitti> Keybuk: we have
[05:07] <carlos> pitti: http://carlos.pemas.net/ubuntu (if you want the ppc debs)
[05:07] <pitti> Keybuk: g-v-m should keep a label database; pmount already supports it
[05:07] <sabdfl> pitti: url is better than email
[05:07] <pitti> carlos: thanks
[05:08] <pitti> sabdfl: http://www.piware.de/hal_0.2.98-1ubuntu9_i386.deb
[05:08] <Kamion> i386 in aptitude, powerpc in base-config
[05:08] <rburton> pitti: i was going to check that it detected a usb stick here, but my hal is dead. still blocked in open() :)
[05:08] <pitti> rburton: that's the error we already know about. Damn kernel bug...
[05:09] <rburton> pitti: apart from that looking good
[05:09] <rburton> next time i reboot i'll verify the usb stick works here
[05:09] <carlos> pitti: latest official pmount releases works with my pendrive (if you need a confirmation about it)
[05:09] <pitti> carlos, rburton: thanks
[05:10] <sabdfl> pitti: perfect, what's the fix?
[05:11] <pitti> sabdfl: I reverted to upstream's autotool files
[05:11] <pitti> sabdfl: I needed to autoreconf in past releases
[05:11] <sabdfl> ok
[05:11] <pitti> sabdfl: but now that's not really necessary any more
[05:11] <Mithrandir> mdz: I think you're going to hate me.. but 1854 isn't fixed.
[05:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: really?
[05:12] <mdz> I tried many times to reproduce it on your machine and was unable, after the patch
[05:13] <Mithrandir> mdz: try logging in and running apt-get upgrade
[05:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: oh crap
[05:13] <mdz> Mithrandir: I botched the change
[05:13] <pitti> mdz: the newer hal seems to work better, so... (I don't dare to ask :- ))
[05:14] <Mithrandir> sorry I haven't been able to test it before, but I completely forgot to actually verify that it was fixed :/
[05:14] <Kamion> mdz's change fixed the bug I was hitting big-time on little
[05:14] <Kamion> so I thought it was safe ...
[05:15] <mdz> Kamion: the patch, 9ubuntu1 or 9ubuntu2?
[05:15] <mdz> 9ubuntu2 was busticated
[05:15] <Mithrandir> my system has never seen 9ubuntu1.
[05:15] <Kamion> oh
[05:15] <mdz> the patch and 9ubuntu1 are ok
[05:15] <Kamion> 9ubuntu1
[05:15] <mdz> I have 9ubuntu3 with the proper brown-bag fix
[05:15] <Kamion> is 9ubuntu2 showstopperishly broken?
[05:16] <Kamion> or just broken in the same way as -9?
[05:16] <mdz> Kamion: not an RC showstopper
[05:16] <mdz> but a final showstopper, methinks
[05:16] <Kamion> ok
[05:16] <Kamion> yes, agreed
[05:16] <sabdfl> Kamion: is ubuntu-desktop *exactly* the same as germinate?
[05:17] <mdz> sabdfl: it's based on the seed, not germinate output
[05:17] <mdz> (no dependencies)
[05:17] <Kamion> what he said
[05:17] <Kamion> makes more sense that way
[05:17] <Mithrandir> mdz: you're just fixing it now, so no need to reopen, or?
[05:17] <Keybuk> Kamion: which kernel *is* http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/20040801ubuntu19/images/netboot/vmlinuz ?
[05:17] <sabdfl> ok, need to help alex get the livecd package list into parity, what's the best way?
[05:17] <mdz> Mithrandir: I reopened it; I'm not uploading gzip until after the RC
[05:17] <Mithrandir> mdz: ack.
[05:18] <mdz> sabdfl: Kamion can send him germinate output
[05:18] <sabdfl> ok, this is not absolutely totally fixed, right?
[05:18] <sabdfl> sorry
[05:18] <sabdfl> now, not not
[05:18] <sabdfl> once again
[05:18] <sabdfl> this list is now totally fixed for release?
[05:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: look in initrd.list alongside it
[05:19] <Keybuk> Kamion: ah, didn't know about that, handy
[05:19] <mdz> sabdfl: should be
[05:19] <sabdfl> ok
[05:19] <Kamion> Keybuk: you might have to correlate against linux-kernel-di-i386-2.6 changelogs
[05:19] <mdz> barring some extremely major "oh shit" moment
[05:19] <sabdfl> Kamion: could you please send alex the exact list when you have a sec?
[05:19] <Kamion> sabdfl: sure, after RC :-)
[05:19] <Kamion> i386 success
[05:19] <Kamion> (in Greek)
[05:20] <mdz> Kamion: this is for the RC live CD
[05:20] <Kamion> crap, ok
[05:20] <mdz> he just needs base + desktop for i386
[05:20] <sabdfl> can i generate that list from a freshly installed box?
[05:20] <Kamion> alextreme: can you just use https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~cjwatson/germinate-warty-output/?
[05:21] <mdz> I wasn't sure if he had access to that
[05:21] <alextreme> Kamion: i'll check, think it should do
[05:21] <mdz> sabdfl: in theory, yes
[05:21] <Kamion> mdz: alex has an account on chinstrap
[05:22] <lamont> someone with bandwidth wanna test that?
[05:22] <mdz> lamont: need a bit more information in order to do that
[05:22] <lamont> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty.iso
[05:22] <m_tthew> i386 success
[05:23] <m_tthew> lamont: rsyncing
[05:23] <Kamion> powerpc success
[05:23] <lamont>    551401472 100%    9.01MB/s    0:00:58  (1, 100.0% of 1)
[05:23] <lamont> wrote 542946115 bytes  read 164407 bytes  8291763.69 bytes/sec
[05:23] <lamont> rsync is not a big win. :-(
[05:23] <Kamion> so; shall I publish this on releases.ubuntu.com?
[05:24] <mdz> Kamion: I think we have a winner
[05:24] <Kamion> let's hope the publish script works
[05:25] <mdz> lamont: wasn't the previous live CD significantly larger than this one?
[05:25] <lamont> mdz: dunno
[05:26] <lamont> still in the debug iteration phase... haven't been keeping logs. :-(
[05:26] <mdz> ETA 24m
[05:26] <lamont> although I have to give the nice man some blank CDR's to make up for it....
[05:26] <Kamion> enjoy munching that CAT-5
[05:30] <lamont> actually, he's bringing a couple of burnt CD's to lunch with him...
[05:31] <Kamion> $ publish-release 20041013.1 rc
[05:31] <Kamion> it might even work this time
[05:31] <lamont> not rc1?
[05:31] <Kamion> we've just been calling it "the warty release candidate"
[05:32] <lamont> 'k
[05:33] <mdz> there shall be one release candidate :-)
[05:33] <pitti> One Disc To Rule Them All...
[05:33] <lamont> mdz: and 3 elves, yes.
[05:34] <lamont> I'm glad we didn't use an LoTR naming convention.
[05:36] <mdz> sabdfl, make: do we have a finalized release candidate announcement to send out?
[05:36] <sabdfl> we do
[05:36] <sabdfl> before you send it I need to update the download page
[05:37] <sabdfl> are we blessing the latest live cd as rc?
[05:37] <mdz> unknown
[05:37] <mdz> it has not had a single test yet
[05:37] <Kamion> mirnyy's data transfer to/from little doesn't seem so great
[05:37] <m_tthew> ETA ~25m on the linvecd image for me
[05:37] <jdub> carlos: can you file a bug and attach a screenshot please?
[05:37] <mdz> it is the very first live CD built at the data center, rather than by alex
[05:38] <mdz> carlos: he did already
[05:38] <carlos> jdub: it's already done
[05:38] <pitti> Will releases.u.o be updated as well?
[05:38] <mdz> er
[05:38] <mdz> jdub: he did alreaday
[05:38] <mdz> already
[05:38] <Kamion> RC published, have a nice day
[05:39] <jdub> ah, ta
[05:39] <carlos> mdz: btw, Happy birthday
[05:39] <jdub> (not getting mail atm, letting lappy cool down)
[05:39] <mdz> thanks
[05:39] <Kamion> somebody have a look at releases.ubuntu.com please to make sure it's what y'all want
[05:39] <mdz> looks fine to me
[05:39] <pitti> so, no live cd?
[05:40] <lamont> pitti: not until we test it...
[05:40] <sabdfl> looks perfect
[05:40] <Kamion> superb
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: congratulations!
[05:40] <Kamion> now to actually fix the bugs in the publishing script that delayed that ...
[05:40] <sabdfl> can i update the web site to point there?
[05:41] <Kamion> yes
[05:45] <lamont> hrm.. what's /dev/sequencer, I wonder?
[05:45] <jdub> midi
[05:45] <lamont> ah
[05:46] <sabdfl> http://cdimage.ubuntulinux.org/releases/warty/rc/
[05:46] <sabdfl> this is the canonical location, right?
[05:47] <sabdfl> kinnding
[05:47] <sabdfl> http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/
[05:50] <sabdfl> ok, page is updated
[05:50] <mdz> thom: here?
[05:51] <sabdfl> i think it's announcement time
[05:51] <Kamion> sabdfl: either's fine, latter probably better
[05:51] <mdz> thom: scp warty.iso potpal:warty-live.iso 
[05:51] <mdz> er
[05:51] <sabdfl> simpler's better
[05:51] <mdz> thom: http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=31505
[05:51] <Kamion> noting that if people look back to the RC announcement after the warty release, the link will no longer point to the RC
[05:51] <lamont> mdz: iso?
[05:52] <mdz> lamont: burning
[05:52] <thom> mdz: *sigh*
[05:52] <Keybuk> thom: ping?
[05:53] <Keybuk> ah, there you are
[05:53] <Keybuk> how did you add thermal and fan to the loadmodules file in mkinitrd ?
[05:53] <mdz> thom: please roll a patch; we'll put this into final
[05:53] <thom> mdz: ok, will get packages built ASAP
[05:53] <mdz> Keybuk: /etc/mkinitrd/modules
[05:53] <sabdfl> i will check the mirrors every hour or two, and point people at them as they get the cd images
[05:54] <Keybuk> mdz: I looked at that, it's empty (apart from comments)
[05:54] <mdz> Keybuk: oh, that
[05:54] <sabdfl> so congratulations, warty team
[05:54] <mdz> Keybuk: he patched mkinitrd
[05:54] <mdz> yes, congratulations
[05:54] <m_tthew> way to go, guys.
[05:54] <mdz> Keybuk: line 961
[05:54] <Keybuk> because I think I just fixed the problem with fans and HP Compaqs
[05:54] <sabdfl> happy birthday mdz!
[05:54] <mdz> thanks
[05:55] <thom> Keybuk: oh?
[05:55] <Keybuk> ahh
[05:55] <Kamion> happy warty^Wbirthday
[05:55] <Keybuk> thom: you have to load 'fan' before 'thermal', otherwise thermal doesn't know there are any fans to control
[05:55] <thom> gack
[05:55] <thom> now you tell me :/
[05:55] <Keybuk> which is why they don't come on :)
[05:55] <Keybuk> thom: this seems to be a recent change; 2.6.7 the order doesn't matter, 2.6.8.1 it seems to
[05:56] <Sledge> Kamion: did you get on ok with mkjigsnap now?
[05:56] <Keybuk> (or maybe it always mattered, and acpid's init script happens to load fan before thermal because it's asciibetically less)
[05:57] <Kamion> Sledge: I was instructed to concentrate on the release candidate that we just put out first, and come back to jigdo afterwards; returning to it now
[05:57] <mdz> lamont, alextreme: Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(9,0)
[05:57] <fabbione> guys good luck with the release
[05:58] <elmo> sabdfl: w.ul.o/download/ will be fixed before we release, right ?
[05:58] <alextreme> mdz: does the grub menu show up at all?
[05:58] <fabbione> i have to go to the house and do some preparation work for tomorrow :((((
[05:58] <mdz> alextreme: yes
[05:58] <lamont> mdz: well, that's consistant at least.
[05:58] <Kamion> is admins@admins.w.h.c still the right admin contact address?
[05:58] <lamont> m_tthew: did you also get that with alex's new bits?
[05:58] <sabdfl> elmo: what's wrong with it?
[05:58] <alextreme> lamont: the buildlog is online?
[05:58] <lamont> yes
[05:58] <lamont> ~lamont/out.gz
[05:59] <lamont> I think.  wherever the last one was
[05:59] <sabdfl> erm, that's weird, i edited it
[05:59] <m_tthew> lamont: with alex's build from yesterday, I got a boot (no mouse). with the most recent build, I am still waiting (~5m) on the iso download.
[05:59] <Sledge> Kamion: understood
[05:59] <thom> Kamion: yes
[05:59] <mdz> failsafe mode gives the same results
[05:59] <lamont> ok
[05:59] <alextreme> k
[05:59] <elmo> sabdfl: it refers to archive.ubuntu.com rather than releases.ubuntu.com
[05:59] <thom> Keybuk: please file a bug
[05:59] <mdz> alextreme: if a photo of the messages would help, let me know
[05:59] <mdz> but it sounds the same as lamont experienced before
[05:59] <lamont> alextreme: the most recent build has the `` changed into (), but that shouldn't really have mattered.
[05:59] <sabdfl> oh hell there 's this new workflow system
[05:59] <sabdfl> hold on
[05:59] <sabdfl> and thanks :-)
[06:00] <alextreme> mdz: nope, not worth the effort, i'll download and inspect it when i get home
[06:01] <alextreme> lamont: indeed. if you don't mind, i have to run now. i'll mail you anything i can find and pop in here every now and then. the next few days just got slightly more... interesting :)
[06:02] <lamont> alextreme: yes, please.
[06:03] <alextreme> k, bbl
[06:04] <mdz> thom: I have CVS revision numbers for the apache2 fixes, if you don't have them already
[06:04] <mdz> thom: please reference CAN-2004-0885
[06:05] <thom> i have the patches, yeah. ok
[06:05] <thom> just throwing food down my neck
[06:06] <sabdfl> elmo: looks like it could be the apache cache for the download page
[06:06] <mdz> thom: don't choke; it doesn't sound all that serious
[06:06] <sabdfl> thom: can you see if the download page is cached, and that's why it still points in the wrong place?
[06:09] <sabdfl> thom: please ack on the cache front
[06:10] <Kamion> hmmmmm
[06:10] <Kamion> symlinking to .jigdo/.template files with different names is problematic
[06:10] <Kamion> we may have to copy the .jigdo
[06:11] <thom> sabdfl: sorry, was eating as previously stated
[06:11] <thom> sabdfl: yes, it's in apache cache
[06:11] <Kamion> same for the .torrent probably
[06:11] <sabdfl> is that why http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/index_html/ is different to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/
[06:11] <thom> zope/plone appears not to bother sending Last-mod or etags or anything else remotely useful
[06:12] <thom> sabdfl: yep
[06:12] <sabdfl> can you jig it please
[06:12] <sabdfl> how long will it cache it for?
[06:13] <mdz> where did pitti go?
[06:13] <thom> kicked
[06:14] <sabdfl> thom: i'll need to update that page as more mirrors come on stream
[06:15] <sabdfl> thom: thanks,we're golden for the anouncement
[06:15] <m_tthew> lamont: same cannot mount root failure on the livecd as mdz saw.
[06:15] <thom> sabdfl: 1 hour
[06:15] <sabdfl> thom: ok, great
[06:15] <sabdfl> that's the one that's going to be hammered from the announcement so it needs to be cached
[06:16] <sabdfl> but we also need to be able to kick it when we rev the page
[06:16] <Kamion> I've fixed the .jigdo and .torrent files now, I think
[06:16] <Kamion> can somebody please test the .torrent?
[06:16] <m_tthew> Kamion: yes, I will re-grab .torrents, the ones I have fail
[06:17] <Kamion> Sledge: you might get productive results testing jigit against the release-candidate .jigdo files, actually
[06:17] <sabdfl> neat
[06:17] <Kamion> Sledge: at least just at the moment, since I don't think the archive has changed
[06:17] <sabdfl> "Need to get 0MB of 400MB".
[06:17] <sabdfl> nice round numbers
[06:17] <Kamion> we did that specially
[06:17] <m_tthew> Kamion: rejected by tracker - Requested download is not authorized for use with this tracker.
[06:18] <Kamion> thom: any clue?
[06:18] <Kamion> maybe torrent.u.c needs to be told about releases.u.c?
[06:18] <thom> hang on
[06:19] <Sledge> Kamion: ok, ta
[06:19] <thom> the path has changed i guess, lemme check
[06:23] <m_tthew> thom: let me know when I should try again
[06:23] <thom> well, i grabbed http://torrent.ubuntu.com/releases/4.10/rc/warty-install-amd64.iso.torrent and it seems fine
[06:24] <mdz> carlos: here?
[06:24] <carlos> mdz: ye
[06:24] <carlos> yes
[06:24] <mdz> carlos: do you have a copy of the source for martin's hal fix?
[06:24] <carlos> mdz: yes
[06:24] <m_tthew> thom: ok, I was using the torrents from http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/
[06:24] <mdz> carlos: could you send it to me?
[06:24] <Kamion> Sledge: ok, updated directions sent to admins, hopefully should work
[06:24] <thom> but it likes releases.ubuntu.com not at all
[06:24] <carlos> mdz: I have also ppc packages if you want
[06:24] <mdz> carlos: sure
[06:25] <carlos> mdz: http://carlos.pemas.net/ubuntu
[06:25] <mdz> thanks
[06:25] <carlos> I'm going to upload now the sources
[06:27] <thom> Kamion: releases.u.c isn't regenerated or any madness like that, is it?
[06:28] <carlos> mdz: sources uploaded
[06:28] <Kamion> thom: regenerated in what way?
[06:28] <Kamion> thom: the torrents are regenerated, because the filenames have changed
[06:29] <thom> we need to have those exact torrents on cdimage, or we need to move torrent to mirnyy then
[06:29] <thom> otherwise the tracker can't see those torrents
[06:29] <Kamion> don't get you, they are on cdimage
[06:29] <Kamion> I don't think releases.u.c does any magic on mirnyy
[06:30] <thom> are the torrents on auckland and mirnyy exactly the same? 
[06:30] <thom> ok
[06:30] <Kamion> I just did 'btmakemetafile http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce --comment "Ubuntu CD cdimage.ubuntu.com" `pwd`/warty-rc-install-amd64.iso' etc.
[06:30] <Kamion> auckland's torrents will be different
[06:30] <Kamion> because auckland mirrors www/full/ from little whereas mirnyy mirrors www/simple/
[06:31] <thom> ok. the tracker has to have all the torrent files that people are going to request from it on its local filesystem
[06:31] <thom> you're saying we don't have that currently?
[06:32] <Kamion> www/full/releases/warty/rc/ and www/simple/.pool/ have warty-install-*, but www/simple/warty/ has warty-rc-install-*
[06:32] <Kamion> thom: how does it find the torrent files?
[06:32] <Kamion> thom: and where is the tracker?
[06:32] <Sledge> Kamion: ah, difficult to test without .conf files
[06:33] <Sledge> Kamion: I'm grabbing bits down anyway...
[06:33] <thom> Kamion: you give the tracker and allowed dir, and it allows you to use any torrents below that dir
[06:33] <thom> and it runs on auckland
[06:33] <Kamion> thom: so just anything called *.torrent?
[06:33] <Kamion> Sledge: oh, whoops
[06:33] <thom> yeah
[06:33] <Kamion> .conf is kind of a generic name ...
[06:33] <Sledge> Kamion: yup
[06:33] <thom> we're also gonna need to run seeders on mirnny then
[06:34] <thom> or so all the .pool magic on auckland, which might well be saner
[06:34] <thom> s/so/do
[06:34] <Sledge> I can change that to something else if it helps
[06:34] <elmo> thom: we need to get some load off auckland, and using mirnyy for releases is our best and about only hope
[06:34] <Kamion> you could sync all of www/ onto auckland but only publicise www/full/, if it has space to do that
[06:34] <Sledge> .jigit might be easiest
[06:34] <elmo> I don't think we should not do that for the sake of torrent
[06:34] <Kamion> sounds like seeders on mirnyy are a better plan then
[06:34] <elmo> kamion: auckland has gobs of space, mirrny is the space restricted one
[06:35] <Kamion> (p.s. please choose typable hostnames, kthxbye ;))
[06:35] <thom> elmo: sure, not saying we shouldn't use mirnyy, just that the tracker needs to be able tosee the torrents and the files
[06:35] <elmo> why can't we just also sync little::releases to auckland couldn't we?
[06:35] <elmo> speak.  english.  good.  no.  me.
[06:35] <Kamion> elmo: I thought that's what I was suggesting above
[06:35] <thom> elmo: that would be best, i didn't know if there was some reason we hadn't?
[06:36] <Kamion> i.e. syncing all of www/
[06:36] <elmo> learn.  I.  it.  book.  from.  a.
[06:36] <thom> Kamion: be glad that elmo added the 'i'
[06:36] <thom> it's properly mrnyy iirc
[06:36] <Kamion> jesus
[06:36] <Kamion> (baby, crying, etc.)
[06:36] <elmo> thom: no it was just late or early when I set up releases.u.c
[06:36] <elmo> no, it really is 'mirnyy', at least according to the website we use
[06:37] <thom> aww, ok
[06:37] <elmo> thom: btw, that evil Russian name you wanted to use is apparently a joke name that roughly equates to 'New Miami'
[06:37] <thom> right, so lets sync ::releases
[06:37] <thom> elmo: rofl
[06:37] <thom> that's even better then :-)
[06:37] <Mithrandir> gobbing the .torrents off http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/rc/ is good, right?
[06:37] <Kamion> Sledge: I'm mostly thinking that we want to have all of these in one directory, and it's getting confusing as it is with .iso, .iso.torrent, .list, .jigdo, and .templates for each of three architectures
[06:38] <Mithrandir> or should I seed from some other URI?
[06:38] <Kamion> in fact, maybe moving all the jigdo files elsewhere would be marginally more sensible
[06:38] <Sledge> Kamion: ok
[06:38] <Kamion> but AARGH TWISTY DIRECTORY TREE NIGHTMARE
[06:38] <elmo> giggle
[06:38] <Sledge> I wasinitially thinking putting all the jigdo bits under /jigit/
[06:38] <lamont> need more links to ../../../bar/foo/baz
[06:39] <Kamion> Sledge: that makes sense, but jigit still needs to find the .iso doesn't it?
[06:39] <thom> Mithrandir: that'll  be great
[06:39] <Sledge> jigit doesn't ever need the iso, no
[06:40] <Mithrandir> thom: I only have two 100Mbits to seed from, though.
[06:40] <Kamion> thom: bittorrent won't know that cdimage/releases/warty/rc/ and releases/warty/ are the same thing, though, will it?
[06:40] <Kamion> if we're publicising releases/warty/, then better to seed from that when it works
[06:40] <Sledge> Kamion: ditto, other jigdo progs don't care about the iso either
[06:41] <Kamion> Sledge: oh, ok, that's cool
[06:41] <Kamion> I still have no idea where to put them, but it suggests ideas at least
[06:42] <Sledge> *grin*
[06:42] <Kamion> you missed the reorganisation of the cdimage tree
[06:42] <Kamion> we now have two parallel trees with intermixing hardlinks and symlinks
[06:42] <Sledge> eeek!
[06:42] <mdz> is the twisty directory maze holding up the release candidate announcement?
[06:43] <Kamion> I think cdimage/releases/warty/ is going to have to be considered legacy in its current form or I'll go nuts
[06:43] <Kamion> mdz: torrents might be, directory mazes aren't
[06:43] <Sledge> Kamion: does torrent need the iso too?
[06:43] <Kamion> pass
[06:43] <Sledge> ok
[06:43] <Sledge> otherwise I'd lay it out
[06:43] <elmo> what the heck is cdimage/releases/warty ?
[06:43] <Sledge> /cdimage/<foo>
[06:44] <Sledge> /cdimage/<foo>/bt
[06:44] <Kamion> elmo: old layout, predating ::releases
[06:44] <Sledge> /cdimage/<foo>/jigit
[06:44] <Kamion> Sledge: makes sense
[06:44] <Sledge> /cdimage/<foo>/iso>
[06:44] <Sledge> how much effort to make torrent configs?
[06:45] <Kamion> trivial, you run btmakemetafile and it does it
[06:45] <Sledge> ok
[06:45] <Sledge> just wondering if it would help to make one back-end script to do a CD release and DTRT
[06:45] <Sledge> :-P
[06:46] <Kamion> I've got publish-daily and publish-release scripts already which do most of the heavy lifting
[06:46] <lamont> Sledge: I thought Kamion already "did that" [sic] .
[06:46] <Sledge> I guessed you would... :-)
[06:47] <Kamion> mdz: mm, if that was a "go away and stop distracting us", we'll move the detailed CD discussion elsewhere
[06:47] <mdz> Kamion: no, it was an honest question
[06:47] <Kamion> ah, ok
[06:48] <mdz> sabdfl: is the release announcement waiting on anything other than torrents?
[06:50] <mako> mdz: i'd like to look it over right now if it's changed since i left last night
[06:51] <sabdfl> mdz: not from me, i've got my teflon trousers on already :-)
[06:51] <mako> looks great
[06:52] <thom> ok, last minute torrent hacking seems to be turning into a theme
[06:53] <lamont> sabdfl: those are, like, slipperier than silk, yes?
[06:54] <mako> lamont: i hear they're very popular in europe
[06:54] <Keybuk> yay, the HP is a happy laptop once more
[06:56] <Keybuk> thom: you know how a lot of people saw a change from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8 with the fans thing?
[06:56] <jdub> you guys don't really need me any more
[06:56] <jdub> it's 3am and i have meetings tomorrow :|
[06:56] <jdub> i'm going to get some rest ;)
[06:57] <Keybuk> it actually turns out that 2.6.7 didn't have your initrd change in it, and 2.6.8 did :)
[06:59] <sabdfl> mako: and baghdad
[07:00] <silbs> jdub: g'night
[07:01] <thom> ok, tracker seems happy now, just hacking the seeders
[07:03] <thom> m_tthew: please try again now? :-)
[07:03] <m_tthew> thom: I regrabbed torrents from http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/, bt seems happy but seedless (expected, I assume)
[07:04] <thom> should be seeded now, i just this second kicked them off
[07:04] <m_tthew> ok, keeping an eye on them
[07:04] <m_tthew> my i386, which is complete, is sending upstream A-OK
[07:05] <m_tthew> still not seeing any downstream on my incomplete amd64 and ppc torrents
[07:05] <Kamion> thom: awesome, thanks
[07:05] <m_tthew> there comes downstream on ppc
[07:06] <m_tthew> and amd64
[07:06] <m_tthew> all torrents look good from here
[07:07] <thom> thanks for testing
[07:07] <m_tthew> np
[07:09] <mako>  we should change the text http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/download
[07:09] <mako> so it doesn't say preview release
[07:09] <mako> i can do it
[07:10] <mako> ergh. if i can find my pw
[07:11] <sabdfl> do
[07:12] <sabdfl> done
[07:12] <sabdfl> but thom will need to kick the cache for it to populate
[07:12] <sabdfl> mako: so is it good for announcement?
[07:14] <mako> sabdfl: beat me too it
[07:15] <thom> Totals:   2.5 MB/s 105.2 KB/s
[07:15] <thom> wee
[07:15] <mako> sabdfl: i'
[07:15] <mdz> the new artwork has caused text breakage in non-english locales
[07:15] <mako> i am going to add somethign to mention that the torrent file are at the download site
[07:15] <mako> sabdfl: that's not entirely clear from the current text
[07:16] <sabdfl> mako: mind if i do it?
[07:16] <sabdfl> i'm right there
[07:16] <mako> sabdfl: i did it
[07:17] <mako> sorry.. was finished by the time i saw your message
[07:17] <sabdfl> mako: then i think we just collided
[07:18] <mako> if it lets you stomp on my changes, that's fine :)
[07:18] <sabdfl> can you verify you're happy with the current state?
[07:18] <sabdfl> shoudl we say RC instead of Release Candidate?
[07:20] <mako> sabdfl: if we say the former we should have the latter at least once
[07:20] <mako> our version numbering is confusing enough people as it is :)
[07:20] <mako> sabdfl: looks good
[07:21] <mako> my main concern was that the links at that page pointed to the correct place, which they do
[07:22] <mako> this is nice timing.. i'm giving a talk on ubuntu tonight at the a new york lug meeting :)
[07:22] <mako> their beginners group
[07:22] <mako> gnubies
[07:28] <Kamion> mdz: I noticed something being overprinted in Greek
[07:29] <mdz> Kamion: someone reported a bug about Greek as well
[07:29] <Kamion> which?
[07:30] <mdz> in gdm
[07:30] <mdz> never mind
[07:30] <mdz> it was greek in openoffice
[07:30] <mdz> #2337 points out Spanish and French as being broken
[07:31] <mdz> are there photos of me on the website or something?
[07:31] <mdz> someone just made a comment on -users about my lack of hair :-)
[07:33] <mako> mdz: wow. :)
[07:34] <silbs> mdz: maybe they think the guy in the artwork is you
[07:34] <mako> hah!
[07:35] <mdz> sounds like an infection meme; let it spread :-)
[07:35] <mdz> I will neither confirm nor deny
[07:35] <mako> what, you mean the guy in the picture is *not* mdz?
[07:36] <mako> mdz: the uberhacker, the amature body builder, the model
[07:36] <mdz> amateur??
[07:37] <Keybuk> he does look like he can walk up walls, now you mention it ...
[07:37] <sabdfl> mdz: that's what a power nap will do for you
[07:37] <mdz> s/infection/infectious/
[07:37] <mdz> what it will do is cause me not to notice my own typos until several minutes later
[07:38] <sabdfl> look, having met the guy, i can confirm that he's NO ROCKET SCIENTIST
[07:38] <hornbeck> sabdfl, mdz: Off topic but is there anything in the works for a doc mailing list
[07:38] <sabdfl> much prefer having mdz on board
[07:38] <silbs> sabdfl: doesn't matter
[07:39] <silbs> (that he's not a rocket scientist)
[07:39] <sabdfl> hornbeck: enrico, sivang are collaborating now i think, ping them, sounds like a good idea
[07:39] <hornbeck> sabdfl: I have been working with sivang but he is out in the cold also about what is going on
[07:39] <mako> hornbeck: to start, conversations should just be on -devel prefixed with a [doc]  or something
[07:39] <mako> hornbeck: i've been talking to sivang every couple days but have been samped teh last 2 or so
[07:40] <hornbeck> mako: I will start pointing everyone to the devel list
[07:40] <mako> hornbeck: if you guys want some direction or someone to bounce ideas off, lets organize a meeting in a couple days
[07:40] <hornbeck> for some reason I have become the contact person for docs
[07:40] <mako> hornbeck: i'm happy to help however i can :)
[07:40] <hornbeck> mako: A meeting would be great
[07:40] <mako> hornbeck: you stick your neck out, you get noticed :)
[07:41] <hornbeck> I know what I am working on but others need direction
[07:41] <mako> hornbeck: and it might be good to compare
[07:41] <hornbeck> yeah
[07:41] <mako> hornbeck: maybe plan for friday?
[07:41] <hornbeck> mako: what time?
[07:41] <mako> i think i should have dug myself out of the hole i'm in workwise
[07:42] <hornbeck> 1600 UTC?
[07:42] <mako> hornbeck: i think UTC 14-> would work
[07:42] <hornbeck> friday at ubuntu-meeting
[07:42] <mako> hornbeck: sounds good
[07:42] <mako> hornbeck: throw out that message to the -devel
[07:42] <hornbeck> I will put on -devel and ubuntu
[07:42] <hornbeck> mako: 1400 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting
[07:43] <mdz> I think an ubuntu-doc list could very well be in order
[07:43] <sabdfl> yes, agreed on -devel with [doc] 
[07:43] <sabdfl> as discussed in the cc ;-)
[07:43] <mdz> there seems to be a lot of activity picking up
[07:43] <hornbeck> mdz: there are alot of us and we need a place to talk
[07:43] <mdz> -devel is very focused on packaging and release right now, and I appreciate that
[07:43] <hornbeck> mdz: in the past two days I have had about five new request of how to join a doc team that does not exist
[07:44] <sabdfl> hornbeck: please start on -devel though, then setup the list when traffic hits a threshold
[07:44] <mako> as right
[07:44] <hornbeck> sabdfl: I will direct everyone there
[07:44] <sabdfl> oh, ok
[07:44] <mako> hornbeck: that's exciting :)
[07:44] <mdz> yes, there has been a great deal of activity in the wiki as well
[07:44] <hornbeck> mako: yes it is 
[07:46] <hornbeck> email is out
[07:49] <hornbeck> hey
[07:49] <sivang> hey john
[07:49] <sivang> whassup?
[07:49] <hornbeck> sivang: doc meeting friday, 1400UTC
[07:49] <sivang> RC already out?
[07:49] <hornbeck> #ubuntu-meeting
[07:49] <sivang> ok, talked with sabdfl?
[07:50] <mako> sivang: yeah, lots of people
[07:50] <hornbeck> :)
[07:50] <mako> sivang: i'll be there as well
[07:50] <sivang> mako : really? what did I miss?
[07:50] <mako> sivang: nothing that reading the mail on -devel won't fix :)
[07:51] <sivang> ok
[07:51] <hornbeck> read the regular list also about the unofficial faq
[07:52] <sivang> hornbeck : already did :)
[07:52] <hornbeck> that guy is mailing me direct now
[07:52] <hornbeck> he is going to help out, I talked him into it
[07:52] <sivang> great
[07:52] <sivang> :)
[07:52] <hornbeck> yeah hes a smart guy
[07:52] <sivang> We need to join forces, not split up
[07:53] <hornbeck> definatly
[07:53] <hornbeck> well I have to go to a job interview
[07:53] <hornbeck> wish me luck
[07:53] <hornbeck> bbl
[07:53] <mako> hornbeck: good luck
[07:57] <sabdfl> hornbeck: break a leg
[07:57] <sivang> mako : who else is going to be on the meeting?
[07:58] <mako> sivang: all of the people who have expressed interested in doc stuff i believe
[07:58] <sivang> mako : ok, sound neat.
[07:58] <sivang> is RC out already?
[07:58] <mako> sivang: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/download
[07:59] <mako> although i don't thinkt he announcement went out
[07:59] <mdz> sabdfl: your turn; now they're speculating that the man in the theme is you
[07:59] <mako> man.. my email is not downloading right now.. i *really* want to read this thread
[07:59] <sivang> mako : thanks - I'll download and start to test.
[08:02] <elmo> LOL
[08:02] <mdz> almost everyone protesting the artwork seems to be doing so on behalf of handwavy third parties
[08:02] <Keybuk> yeah
[08:02] <Keybuk> I've added a bunch of FAQs to the Ubuntu wiki for those that really feel the urge to change them
[08:02] <mdz> I'm against it because...someone else might not like it
[08:03] <elmo> can I change the wiki yet to point to releases?
[08:03] <elmo> I guess so, given the website's been changed
[08:03] <sabdfl> elmo: yes please
[08:04] <sabdfl> i have to step out for an hour, see you guys shortly
[08:04] <sabdfl> has any announcement been sent?
[08:04] <elmo> have we actually got anyone responsible for sending it, or do we all think the other is doing it ? ;-)
[08:06] <Kamion> elmo: well volunteered that man
[08:06] <Mithrandir> have the url for the torrent changed?
[08:06] <mdz> sabdfl: no, I thought you and mako were on that?
[08:06] <Mithrandir> my box is sad, it doesn't upload anything.
[08:08] <sabdfl> mako: please send!
[08:08] <sabdfl> thom: this is a very confidential.... nevermind
[08:08] <mako> i'll send, i'll send
[08:08] <sabdfl> cheers guys, hope i come back to some fireworks :-)
[08:08] <sabdfl> have my phone with me in case
[08:08] <Kamion> enjoy :)
[08:10] <elmo> what's the "correct" form for rsync URLs ?
[08:10] <elmo> rsync://host::module/path/ ?
[08:10] <mdz> elmo: rsync://host/module/path
[08:11] <mdz> :: is the non-URL syntax preferred by Kamion :-)
[08:12] <mako> mdz: i'm sending the announcement to u-a now
[08:12] <mako> i'
[08:12] <mdz> mako: great
[08:13] <mako> m going to double check the url's first
[08:13] <sivang> mako : do send me the log of everything went with docs, I taking off for 30 minutes and will be back
[08:14] <mako> sivang: after the announce goes out :)
[08:14] <sivang> mako : sure no problem.
[08:17] <Kamion> mdz: I'm hopelessly inconsistent about which I use
[08:17] <Kamion> mdz: even I'd avoid rsync://host::module/path/ though :)
[08:22] <elmo> thom: bribe jane
[08:22] <elmo> Dear Jane, please pull large shelf unit down on to Mark.  kthxbye
[08:22] <thom> i'll give that a whirl
[08:23] <mako> the deed is done
[08:23] <mako> RC has been announced
[08:41] <elmo> did anyone else get it back yet?
[08:41] <elmo> oh,nm
[08:46] <mako> who knows how to update/alert distrowatch
[08:46] <mako> we just hit LWN
[08:47] <elmo> those lwn guys are super fast
[08:51] <mako> jdub: if you know how to do distrowatch, please follow up on that one
[08:51] <thom> mdz_: apache2 building currently, will upload first thing tomorrow
[08:51] <mako> mdz_: do you want to fwd the announcment to debian-devel or is not worth it for an RC?
[08:52] <mdz_> mako: I think we're getting increasingly off-topic for -devel
[08:52] <mdz_> I don't want to keep pushing until someone tells us to go away
[08:52] <mdz_> debian-user I think would be fine, though
[08:52] <mako> i think we shoudl announce annoucnments
[08:53] <mako> mdz_: it's a balance.. progency and linspire have been criticized for taking debian's stuff and just doing their own thing
[08:53] <mako> mdz_: certainly, something other than just forwarding announcments would be good as well
[08:54] <mdz_> mako: our RC announcement has essentially nothing to do with Debian development; it's off-topic
[08:54] <mdz_> the announcement of our existence was pertinent, but I don't think that our every announcement is
[08:55] <Kamion> debian-project would be arguable, although even there it's borderline
[08:55] <mako> i don't disagree, that's why i suggested it miht not be worth it
[08:56] <mdz_> we are more interesting to Debian users than Debian developers, which is why I suggested -user
[08:56] <mako> elmo: 20:54 <Md> hi. I think ftp3.linux.it is still listed as an ubuntu CD mirror, please remove it because it's down and the stupid sponsor is not replying to email...
[08:58] <elmo> mako: it's not on the website, mark took them all down until we can get confirmation they've got the RC
[08:58] <elmo> but thanks
[09:04] <amu> is there a need for a good connected german mirror ?  
[09:05] <amu> ( Telefonica ) 
[09:08] <mako> elmo: ?
[09:09] <mdz_> mako: is the announcement sent?
[09:11] <amu> mdz_: i got it ;) 
[09:12] <mdz_> I haven't
[09:12] <mdz_> I'd better be subscribed :-P
[09:13] <sabdfl> how's it look?
[09:14] <elmo> mako: ?
[09:15] <elmo> sabdfl: not been slashdotted yet, so not much increase in activity
[09:15] <sabdfl> Kamion: odd, on the test ipw2200 laptop, the wifi was detected and used during install, but it's not there after reboot
[09:15] <sabdfl> fun
[09:16] <sabdfl> the module is loaded though
[09:16] <amu> .... or test the Live CD, you can download it here .... i cant find the liveCD :) *ducks* 
[09:16] <sabdfl> dmesg shows:
[09:16] <sabdfl> detected it
[09:17] <sabdfl> then "failed to send TX_POWER command" fives times
[09:17] <sabdfl> then it gave up
[09:23] <mdz_> lamont: live CD?
[09:35] <amu> hmm, if i change my laptop vom ethernet to wlan, i've to setup wlan everytime by hand ...i miss something like laptop-net, which handle ethernet,usb,firewire,vpn,gprs sessions        
[09:38] <mdz_> amu: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HoaryHedgehog
[09:45] <amu> mdz_: again, it sounds cool ;) i didnt found encryption, ex. in german governments, encrytion is a must.       
[09:46] <mdz> amu: encryption in which applications?
[09:46] <amu> the hole harddisk or partions .... 
[09:49] <amu> if they put sensible datas on their notebook and the book gets lost, i must be guaranteed that nobody comes to the datas. Very interessting   
[09:54] <amu> http://www.bsi.bund.de/produkte/erposs3/index.htm
[09:59] <lamont_p> moo
[10:00] <lamont_p> silbs around still?
[10:03] <mako> elmo: has anyone else here submitted it to slashdot???
[10:03] <mako> actaully that was to everyone
[10:03] <m_tthew> yes
[10:03] <m_tthew> without spelling errors, this time.
[10:04] <lamont_p> mako: any clue why a 5-pack would weigh 1kg?
[10:05] <lamont_p> palm + irc is interesting
[10:06] <mako> lamont_p: five pack of cd's?!
[10:06] <lamont_p> yes
[10:06] <mako> lamont_p: not last i checked
[10:07] <mako> lamont_p: that's 2+ lbs
[10:07] <lamont_p> q for silbs from a us bdder on the shipping
[10:07] <lamont_p> e
[10:07] <lamont_p> exactly
[10:13] <fabbione> mdz: is alright for you if i take the tiff problem and fix it tomorrow morning?
[10:14] <m_tthew> "2004-10-13 18:26:30 Ubuntu Linux 'Warty Warthog' Release Canidate Out (Linux,Announcements) (rejected)"
[10:14] <m_tthew> I assume some more people tried
[10:14] <lamont_p> .gah.
[10:15] <lamont_p> anyway.  bbl
[10:17] <elmo> mdz: ?
[10:22] <hornbeck> I am getting alot of replys about the doc meeting
[10:26] <mdz> fabbione: yes
[10:26] <mdz> elmo: ?
[10:26] <elmo> mdz: should snmp on linux provide 64-bit counters by default, do you know?
[10:27] <mdz> elmo: I do not know
[10:27] <mdz> elmo: sometimes it's enough to shorten the collection interval
[10:27] <mdz> sucks with rrd, though, because it means generating a new rrd
[10:28] <mdz> rrdtool has this magic where it tries to account for counter overflow
[10:28] <mdz> which is normally nothing but a huge pain in the ass because it causes huge spikes whenever the snmp agent is restarted
[10:29] <elmo> [13-Oct-2004 21:25:24*]  Received SNMP response with error code noSuchName. OID: 1.3.6.1.2.1.31.1.1.1.6.1
[10:29] <elmo> :/
[10:31] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp/net-snmp-5.1.2]  grep -i '64.*counter' TODO
[10:31] <mdz> 64-bit counters
[10:31] <elmo> doh
[10:31] <mdz> there is a bunch of code for it, though
[10:31] <mdz> it has a 64-bit counter data type
[10:32] <elmo> why on earth does changing the collection interval mean trashing the rrd?
[10:35] <mdz> it's the nature of rrd
[10:35] <mdz> it's a fixed number of slots
[10:36] <mdz> I suppose you could just make up data
[10:36] <mdz> if it's evenly divisible, duplicate each sample N times or something like that
[10:37] <mdz> I'm sure there are consolidation functions that would break with that approach, though
[10:37] <mdz> but AVERAGE would stay the same
[10:38] <mdz> hmm
[10:41] <mdz> yeah, I think net-snmp might just suck in this respect
[10:41] <mdz> seems to be able to retrieve 64-bit counters from devices which have them
[10:50] <sabdfl> elmo: how's traffic looking?
[10:52] <mdz> slashdot has given us the thumbs-down, it would appear
[10:52] <m_tthew> apparently they find parrot more exciting
[10:52] <mdz> we're on LWN
[10:54] <azeem> mdz: resubmit to /. with 'Ubuntu release candidate with pr0n wallpaper'
[10:55] <m_tthew> no doubt that is how the /. splash will eventually happen
[10:55] <azeem> when exactly do you plan to ship the CDs?
[10:56] <mdz> after the final release
[10:57] <azeem> hmm, ok. It's just I'll be at Systems, Munich next week, so I could put some up at the Debian booth perhaps if they'd arrive till then
[10:57] <mdz> you are free to bring some release candidate CD-Rs with you of course, but we only plan to press CDs for the final release
[10:58] <azeem> sure
[10:58] <Keybuk> I'm not surprised ... we've probably had all our /. coverage for a while now
[10:58] <Keybuk> too many announcements too quickly
[11:09] <sabdfl> patience
[11:09] <sabdfl> is there a submission we can see?
[11:18] <sabdfl> ftp://ftp.aditel.org/pub/isos/ubuntu-cdimage/releases/warty/rc/
[11:18] <sabdfl> is that a mirror of today's release?
[11:20] <Keybuk> according to the MD5SUMS file, yes
[11:21] <sabdfl> 'k
[11:21] <sabdfl> thanks
[11:22] <vorlon> I don't suppose I can bug anyone here with a question about an ISO I downloaded yesterday that I can no longer find a link back to in order to check the md5sum? ;)
[11:24] <Keybuk> vorlon: sure, the answer is "blue and ever-so-slightly salty"
[11:25] <Mithrandir> vorlon: or sqrt(42/sqrt(pi))
[11:25] <Mithrandir> :P
[11:25] <Mithrandir> vorlon: please shoot.
[11:25] <vorlon> Keybuk: damn, guess that means I'll have to redownload.
[11:25] <Mithrandir> vorlon: rsync.
[11:26] <vorlon> from?
[11:26] <Keybuk> vorlon: was it one of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/ ?
[11:26] <Keybuk> or something from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/ ?
[11:26] <vorlon> Keybuk: it was the main download link posted on ubuntulinux.com, US mirror.
[11:26] <Keybuk> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/warty/preview/MD5SUMS
[11:27] <Mithrandir> vorlon: archive.ubuntu.com::cdimage/releases/warty/rc/ somewhere. :)
[11:27] <Keybuk> ^ that's probably the MD5SUMS file you want ... (guessing)
[11:27] <vorlon> Keybuk: ah, n/m, it looks like this was actually a bad burn.
[11:40] <Mithrandir> this is weird -- https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2348 , in normal mozilla. scroll down with the mouse wheel, and it stops approximately 500 pixels from the bottom.
[11:42] <m_tthew> Mithrandir: I thought that was just me
[11:43] <m_tthew> Mithrandir: it has not always been that way, I quasi-suspected CSS magic/crack.
[11:43] <Mithrandir> sounds like a mozilla bug
[11:43] <Mithrandir> since arrow keys work
[11:43] <Mithrandir> and you get stuck at the bottom