hornbeckIs there a way for me to convert my daily system to use all the default artwork?12:09
sabdflhornbeck: right click on the desktop, and select the Ubuntu Default Desktop12:16
hornbeckit just did it by its self12:16
hornbeckcrashed my x for some reason12:17
hornbeckthan came back up with the new artwork12:17
hornbeckwho are the people?12:17
sabdflthe default desktop for new installs has the ubuntu logo12:18
hornbeckyeah I have it up12:18
hornbecknice brown12:18
hornbeckI like it12:18
sabdflbut the preview had the calendar selected, so everyone who had the preview and even looked at the desktop options, gets the calendar now12:18
hornbeckman for some reason when it crashed it launched another x display12:19
sivangwe need to tell them somewhere that more is available12:19
sivangmore artwork, that is12:20
sivangfor instance :)12:21
sivangthere needs be readme like doc on the wiki I suppose. to explain how to get over certain quirks that might get fixed or noticed on the release.12:21
hornbeckwe need to just figure out a way to organize the wiki alittle better12:22
hornbeckneed a sitemap on it12:22
amusabdfl: congratulats to the idea with the pics :)  12:22
sivangyes, we do. firstly, the documentation areas needs to become the documentation develop area,12:22
sivangas it's more of a collectiong of docs and stuff. I am going to organize the /UDP page,12:23
sivangso it will look more as a starting point for people seeking the latest documetation which is not on *.ubuntu.com12:23
hornbeckI think we should have one main page for docs that links off to new docs12:23
hornbeckwell at least we agreed on that12:24
sivangok cool.12:24
sabdflamu: thank you12:24
hornbecksivang do you want to start putting that together12:24
hornbecksivang we need to do a site survay to see where all the docs are12:25
sivangI'm on to it \12:25
sabdflbut let's wait for the full response12:25
sivangeverybody, please let us know if this is annoying the RC stuff here..:)12:25
sivangwe might do it on #ubuntu-docs12:26
hornbeckI think we are fine right now12:27
hornbecksivang: did you see the new start page for firefox?12:28
sivanghornbeck : yes I did, mark sent me the final.12:28
sivanghornbeck : however, it doesn't include the gfx, what's on there gfx wise?12:29
hornbecksivang: just the logo at the top12:29
hornbeckwe need to get some how-tos for the site also12:29
hornbeckor tutorials that is12:30
sivanghowever, we might want to save all this decisions for until the meeting?12:30
hornbeckI am making a list of things to bring up at the meeting12:30
sivangso a larger crowd would attend and comment, suggest, take up tasks etc? what do you think?12:30
hornbeckstuff I think needs to be done12:30
hornbeckI am just thinking outload :)12:31
sivangsend over when done.12:31
hornbeckdid you ever get tomboy working?12:31
hornbeckcause it is all in tomboy notes12:31
sivangI did on the laptop,12:31
sivangI'll install it here.12:31
hornbeckok, so would you rather a ooo file12:31
sivangwhy not it's already installed here :)12:32
sivang2.49 eta for RC testing...12:32
hornbeckI am so happy people have keep with my format on the hardware support12:34
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sivangcan anybody tell if I might get better throughput using rsync instead of the torrent?12:51
Mithrandirsivang: probably rather the other way around12:52
hornbecksivang: notes on ideas on the way.12:52
hornbecktomboy really needs a export function12:52
sivanghornbeck : thanks12:52
hornbeckno prob12:52
sivangMithrandir : you mean rsync is better? Looks like it, the torrent only use 50% of my bandwidth12:53
Mithrandirsivang: no, the torrent should be better.12:53
sivangMithrandir : I've had better results with the rsync untill now. maybe the torrents have dropped (I've used to get those at 98Kb/s) due to heavy load.12:54
Mithrandirthe torrents should go up with load, not doewn12:55
sivangoh right, cause you have more uploaded..12:56
sivangupstream seeds12:58
hornbeckI added the info about the doc meeting to my blog01:03
hornbecksince I know there are some ubuntu users who read it01:03
hornbeckopps that was supposed to be pm to sivang01:04
sivangno prob :)01:04
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=== lamont_r [~lamont@168-103-92-87.dnvr.qwest.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lamont_r is between a private lesson and the evening's jujutsu class
lamont_rdid we hear any more from alex yet?03:11
=== lamont_r goes to class. on again in a couple hours.
lamont_rwhat's the word on netgear wireless cards?03:12
lamont_rprolly 802.11g03:12
Keybuk"I'd be upset if my splash screen suddenly featured a tribute to Ronald Reagan, or a reminder that Jesus loves me."03:16
Keybuk...ah, the memory of gimp splash screens past03:16
sivanghhaa. iso donwloaded. going to test RC on my new SCSI fileserver :-)03:46
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m_tthewKeybuk: 'The Politically Incorrect Release'04:21
sivanggot some errors on the SCSI AIC-7xxx driver on boot up, but post install seems to be running smoothly04:29
sivangalso got "pciehp" module insertion error04:30
sivang"Operation not permitted"04:30
sivangok, not to download live cd04:31
Keybukooh, Python 2.404:58
sivangKeybuk : word has it you're the Python lead and expert for Ubuntu, how do you get accepted to the Python team? :)05:04
sivangKeybuk : I meant, how can someone can accepted to that fine high lever programming team? :)05:06
Keybukto be honest, I haven't really put a huge amount of thought into it yet05:07
KeybukI'm mostly involved with other Canonical projects at the moment, and spending only relatively little time on Ubuntu05:07
sivangKeybuk : Oh, I see. ARCH, rozetta and freinds?05:08
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Keybukthe general focus will be getting Python scripting support into every application05:08
Keybukand brushing up and evangelising that which already exists05:09
Keybukyeah, I'm working on the really kick-arse arch stuff :p05:09
sivangKeybuk : does it menifest on arch's CVS? or , coming to think of it, ARCH's arch archive? :-)05:10
Keybuknah, there's no public manifestation of what I'm working on yet; soon, hopefully05:11
sivangKeybuk : canonical had spawned a private tree of the code, and would flush it back when done?05:12
Keybuknah, it's not directly related to the arch code; more exciting things you could do with arch :o)05:13
sivangKeybuk : sounds very apptetiting :)05:14
=== lamont_r tries to import a disk with sound juicer, and discovers that 'music player' doesn't find any of the .ogg's...
lamont_rwhy is that, I wonder?05:15
lamont_rmaybe I should finish my upgrade?05:16
sivanglamont_r : i try to upgrade my dpkg's failing on me...:)05:18
lamont_r202 upgraded, 1 newly installed.05:19
fabbionemorning guys05:22
fabbionemdz: you around?05:23
sivangmorning fabbione05:24
sivangup so early?05:24
sivangfeeling better?05:25
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-68-92-227-78.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzfabbione: yes05:25
fabbionesivang: i was ok yesterday too :-)05:25
mdzfabbione: how is the move going?05:25
=== lamont_r heads for home.
fabbionemdz: portmap. i can upload it, but didn't you have the packages already?05:25
mdzfabbione: yes, I have a .changes ready to upload05:26
fabbionemdz: i decided to stay another day here at the old house and have the office on the floor05:26
fabbionemdz: it will give my ISP another day to fix the adsl line at the new house05:26
fabbionemdz: do you want me to do another .changes or will you upload it directly?05:26
fabbionemdz: in anycase tomorrow i must move out. either to the new house or to the other office05:27
mdzfabbione: I thought it might be good to wait some time after the RC before uploading new packages05:27
fabbionemdz: make sence05:27
fabbionemdz: but we need to get these new packages tested as well05:28
mdzfabbione: but on the other hand, I would like for it to get as much testing as possible before final05:28
fabbionemdz: i think you should upload it05:28
mdzfabbione: I think we are both very confident that it does not break the desktop05:28
fabbionemdz: i am confident05:28
mdzmy only concern is users who are running NFS and such05:28
fabbionedesktop is working fine here05:28
mdzyou tested client or server or both?05:28
fabbionemdz: yes05:28
fabbioneclient is 100% ok05:28
mdzI have been without sleep for a while, so excuse my poor recall :-)05:28
fabbioneserver needs to be reconfigured in case05:28
fabbionemdz: it's ok.. blame bugzilla that deleted all the nice report i did yesterday05:29
mdzI wrote some notes in bugzilla05:29
mdzfabbione: justdave fixed that, by the way05:29
fabbionemdz: yup05:29
mdzfabbione: do you think there is any _simple_ way we can make the NFS server Just Work if the user installs it?05:29
mdzI guess the answer is, "wait for hoary"05:30
mdzwhen hopefully we can get rid of fam, and follow the plan I outlined in bugzilla05:30
mdzjdub: what are the odds on replacing fam for Hoary?05:30
fabbioneyes i read the comments05:30
fabbionei agree with them05:30
mdzgamin seems to be active05:31
mdzso hopefully it will be a viable option05:31
mdzok, I guess I will upload05:31
fabbionei mean.. who implements a nfs server has at least a minimum knowledge of filysystems05:31
fabbioneand what to look for05:31
danielsmdz: so the GetModeLine isn't OK now?05:31
fabbioneit's not that simple for a newbie to write an exportfs05:31
mdzbut I am not aware of any other unix which ships a portmap listening only on localhost by default05:31
fabbionemdz: too bad for them :-)))05:31
mdzdaniels: we have a list of serious issues to deal with; let's leave trivial items for Hoary05:32
fabbionedaniels: what GetModeLine? the 099l ??05:32
mdzI don't object to the patch, but we need to change as little as possible between now and final05:33
fabbionemdz: let's discuss X in a few minutes ok?05:34
mdzfabbione: ok05:34
fabbionei am preparing an interdiff05:34
fabbionebut working from the floor doesn't make me any faster ;)05:34
mdzI would like to give gzip a good workout05:34
mdzbut there is nothing to upgrade :-)05:35
=== fabbione uploads X to make mdz happy
mdzhar har05:35
fabbionemdz. you can simulate ;)05:35
fabbionedpkg-getselection > log05:35
fabbioneapt-get --reinstall install < log05:35
fabbioneor something like that05:35
mdzdaniels: do you realize that xscreensaver writes a line to stdout (and thus ~/.xsession-errors) whenever it activates anyway?05:36
mdzthere is a lot of work to be done on eliminating unnecessary disk access, but it is a Hoary project05:36
danielsfabbione: yeah, 099l05:37
danielsmdz: ok05:37
mdzif you try to reinstall many packages at once, apt tends to get confused05:37
fabbionemdz: well .. that's how i saved my server once05:37
fabbionemdz: / was lost in lost+found05:37
fabbionefound dpkg via md5sum05:38
fabbioneand the minimum pieces required to run apt05:38
fabbionealso via md5sum05:38
mdzthat is a lot of pieces05:38
mdzglibc and nss and libapt and the methods05:38
fabbionemdz: not if you have /var/lib/dpkg/info intact05:38
fabbionescript to check md5sums05:38
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fabbioneand to move files around according to them05:39
mdzfabbione: I noticed in my testing that when you upgrade portmap, it does not restart :-/05:39
fabbioneonce you get the minimum working05:39
mdzI do not know if the bug exists in Debian05:39
fabbionehmm it did here05:39
mdzI don't have any more Debian systems to test05:39
fabbionewait a sec05:39
mdzevery time in my test upgrades, it would still be listening after upgrade05:39
mdzbecause it was still the old process05:39
fabbionedpkg - warning: downgrading portmap from 5-4ubuntu4 to 5-4ubuntu3.05:40
fabbione * Stopping portmap daemon...                                            [ ok ] 05:40
fabbioneInstalling new version of config file /etc/init.d/portmap ...05:40
fabbione * Starting portmap daemon...                                            [ ok ] 05:40
fabbione * Restoring old RPC service information...                              [ ok ] 05:40
fabbionesame when upgrading05:40
mdzI will test in a moment when I upgrade my NFS server :-)05:42
mdzonce the package is built05:43
fabbionemdz: back in 5 minutes to discuss X05:43
=== fabbione needs to visit the thinking room
mdzMithrandir: ping?05:43
mdzasleep I suppose05:43
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mdzonly Mithrandir, elmo and Kamion seemed to have been able to reproduce the gzip bug05:52
mdzMithrandir gave me an account on his system, but his IP seems to have changed05:52
fabbionemdz: ^^05:54
fabbioneubuntu24 to ubuntu2505:54
mdzfabbione: do you have tiff prepared?05:54
fabbionethere are a lot of noisy bits like changelog, CHANGESETS, TODO05:54
fabbionemdz: i woke up when i said goodmorning here05:55
fabbionemdz: i am going to do it after we discuss the diff05:55
fabbioneit won't take too long since the patches are in bugzilla05:55
fabbionedon't worry about it05:55
fabbionei only have one pending change to the FAQ05:58
fabbionebut i guess that's not an issue ;)05:58
mdzthe doc updates of course I have no problem with05:59
mdzwe need to talk about xkb, v4l and #232805:59
mdzI read #2328, but from only the bug, it is impossible to tell either the problem or the fix :-)05:59
fabbionemdz: 2328 is a simple fix06:00
fabbioneit's at the end of the diff06:00
mdzit is hard to see with such a long line; what is the change?06:00
fabbione-      db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list06:00
fabbione+      if [ -n "MAXRES" ] ; then06:00
fabbione+        RET="MAXRES"06:00
fabbione+      else06:00
fabbione+        db_get xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list06:00
fabbionemdz: is in xserver-xfree86.postinst.in and .templates06:01
mdzthe end of the diff is a template change06:01
fabbioneyes and the bit before it06:01
fabbionethere are 2 problems basically06:01
danielsfabbione: shouldn't that be $MAXRES?06:01
fabbionedaniels: correct06:01
danielsbecause "MAXRES" will always be strlen() != 006:01
fabbionemdz: Carlos specific problem is that his resolution06:02
fabbionewas not known at @60Hz06:02
fabbioneso basically debconf was returning 640x480 @ 60Hz06:03
fabbioneas default value06:03
fabbionebut this is a specific fix06:03
fabbionereviewing the logic06:03
fabbionei noticed that can happen for all the unknonw resolutions06:03
fabbionenow if MAXRES exists it means that we are either probing or guessing06:03
fabbioneand it contains the same value as the template (theoretically)06:04
mdzthis change is very uncomfortable to me06:04
fabbionemdz: it's simple06:04
fabbioneit's difficult to explain06:04
mdzit had one bug already06:04
fabbionemdz: i didn't finish all the tests yet06:05
fabbioneit's not like i wouldn't have spot it06:05
mdzthe problem with changing anything in the detection logic at this point is that we can never re-test all of the hardware that has been tested06:05
mdzwe have had hundreds or thousands of tests at this point06:05
fabbionemdz: it doesn't really change the logic06:06
fabbioneit fixes it 06:06
fabbionemdz: if you see the script carefully:06:06
fabbioneMAXRES = something06:06
fabbionedb_set template $MAXRES06:06
fabbionedb_get template06:06
fabbioneand than we compare what's in there with the list06:06
fabbionethe template might not be aware of that MAXRES06:07
fabbionedebconf returns the default of 640x480 @ 60Hz06:07
fabbionethe frequencies detection goes banana06:07
fabbionethe if then else fi06:07
fabbionesimply avoids a limitation to the debconf template06:08
fabbioneand it is not intrusive.06:08
mdzunder what circumstances is MAXRES set?06:08
fabbionei am not "growing" the template like i did for the other resolution list06:08
fabbioneMAXRES is set only when we cannot detect the frequencies via xresprobe06:08
fabbione    # if we are here we did not detect the frequencies, but we have the resolution.06:09
fabbione    # get the highest resolution.06:09
mdzso MAXRES is the answer to the mode question06:09
mdzso this changes the behaviour for (potentially) every circumstance where the user is asked the mode question06:09
fabbionebecause the mode list is all known and mapped to mode-list06:10
fabbioneso if the user is promped for the resolution it can only enter well known values of MAXRES06:11
fabbionethat will match later on the values into the frequencies case06:11
sivangi wonder if fixing this would allow high quality displays to do above 100hz freqs :)06:11
fabbionesivang: not in your case06:11
fabbioneit's another bug here we are talking about06:12
fabbionemdz: what you need to look at is this:06:13
fabbione    # set a sane default for mode-list06:13
fabbione    MAXRES="$MAXRES @ 60Hz"06:13
fabbione    db_set xserver-xfree86/config/monitor/mode-list "$MAXRES"06:13
fabbionethe problem happens only if MAXRES is not known to the template06:14
mdzcurrently, that falls back to the default in the template if $MAXRES is not in the choices06:14
mdzthe default is 1024x768 @ 60 Hz06:14
fabbionemdz: apparently no, if you try to set the template and than db_get06:15
fabbioneyou get the first value of the list06:15
fabbionethat might be a frontend bug06:15
mdzI agree06:15
mdzthat is a bad debconf behaviour06:15
fabbionefrontend ;)06:15
fabbionedoes it look too dangerous to you?06:17
fabbioneotherwise there is another simple way to implement it06:17
fabbioneif that can make you feel better06:17
fabbionei can db_get the template06:17
fabbioneif the MAXRES is != null and the 2 are the same than ok06:18
fabbioneotherwise prefer MAXRES to db_get06:18
fabbionesame effect as you see it in the patch06:18
fabbionekust written in a different way06:18
mdzhere is my concern06:19
mdzis there any possibility of this affecting any case other than when 640x480 @ 60Hz would be the result?06:20
mdzhow can we test this?06:21
fabbionemdz: simply asking carlos to test the new package06:22
fabbionehe has the testcase ;)06:22
mdzI am not so concerned about the bug06:22
fabbioneand just try to reprobe on well known machines06:22
mdzit seems to affect very few people06:22
mdzit is the regression testing06:22
fabbionemdz: well not really a few...06:22
mdzwhich cases do we need to test for regressions?06:22
fabbionethere were a bunch of people having the 640x480 problem06:23
mdzwhere xresprobe fails?06:23
fabbionemdz: where xresprobe returns a resolution but not a frequency set06:23
fabbioneyou can even wrap xresprobe to simulate that for you06:23
fabbionejust write a bogus sh script to return:06:23
fabbionerabidbt: blabla06:24
fabbioneidentifier: blabla06:24
fabbioneres: 1024x76806:24
fabbioneor something like that06:24
fabbionethat will trigger the MAXRES06:24
fabbionebut you need to use a not known resolution06:24
fabbioneno discard my last comment06:24
fabbioneit can be also on well known resolution06:25
fabbioneit doesn't really matter06:25
lamontmdz: looks like the preview set calendar as the default, so anyone upgrading a preview to current bits gets people.06:25
mdzlamont: if that is happening to _anyone_ who upgrades from preview, there is a new and interesting bug somewhere06:26
mdzit is known to happen to anyone who even breathed on the background preferences dialog06:26
mdzfabbione: it is all a question of how much testing we can get for it06:27
lamontmdz: I didn't change background preferences prior to today, and when I pull that up, it says 'ubuntu monthly calendar'06:27
mdzlamont: you don't have to change them; you only have to look06:27
lamontI see.06:27
mdzanyone who has a ~/.gnome2/backgrounds.xml or whatever06:27
mdzwill get a surprise artwork change06:27
lamontI see06:28
lamontand does removing the file make things better, or worse, I wonder?06:28
mdzremoving the file should give you the new default06:28
mdzwhich is the gradient+logo background06:28
mdzfabbione: thanks for the explanation, I understand the change much better now06:29
mdzfabbione: can we talk about xkb?06:29
lamontmdz: so which all prism drivers do we have now?06:29
fabbionemdz: of course.06:29
mdzlamont: I don't think we add any prism drivers, but we do add the firmware for prism5406:29
fabbionemdz: we have 2 problems with XKB06:29
mdzso we have whatever is in the 2.6 tree06:29
lamontmdz: so prims54 should "just work", or should be "trivial to enable"?06:30
mdzlamont: should 'just work' post-installation06:30
fabbionemdz: for the testing i can simulate all the cases replacing xresprobe. that's not a problem06:30
mdzmay or may not work in the installer, not sure of the status of that one06:30
fabbionemdz: it was already in my TODO. it's not like i tend to push untested changes06:30
fabbionemdz: let's go with xkb when you are ready06:31
lamontmdz: what about liveCD?06:31
mdzlamont: the live CD has a completely different kernel06:32
mdzfabbione: I need 10 minutes for workrave06:32
fabbionemdz: ok06:32
mdzwrists are killing me06:32
fabbionemdz: i need to help my gf a few minutes so it fits perfectly ;)06:32
lamontwe publish a livecd RC?06:32
lamontlooks like the answer is 'no'06:34
=== lamont checks and discovers that his warty mirror will fit on a dvd. Just barely
lamontwell, about 20MB to spare.. :-)06:48
mdzlamont: I thought you weren't able to build one which booted06:50
mdzlamont: did you and alex find a solution?06:50
lamontmdz: haven't heard from alex since he headed for home.06:50
mdzlamont: please keep on him06:51
lamontbut he had uploaded one, and it looks like we held off on calling that an RC.06:51
lamonthe's on the top of my list.06:51
mdzthe one that he built was based on day-old stuff, rather than the RC packages06:52
lamonthave there been any post-rc uploads yet?06:54
mdzfabbione: back06:54
fabbioneme too06:56
fabbionexbk problems06:56
fabbionethere are 2 issues that i am aware of at the moment06:57
fabbionethe first is that some layout are "multi layout" capable06:57
fabbioneno clue what that means, but that's how it works06:57
fabbionebasically these multilayout requires extra definitions in a bunch of files06:57
fabbionethe last changes we imported are to support a number of extra multi layout thingy06:58
fabbioneand it includes a cleanup in the direction06:58
fabbione(that was between ubuntu23 and ubuntu24)06:58
fabbioneapparently there is a regression06:58
mdzwhat kind of testing can we do?06:58
fabbionefor the Super key 06:59
fabbionemdz: no idea really...06:59
fabbioneother than testing the minimal stuff06:59
fabbionelike the windows key and stuff like that06:59
fabbioneit also means that you need to set the layout on the specified language to be able to see if it works07:00
fabbioneand need to be familiar with it07:00
fabbioneso i am not completely sure how to test stuff in that direction07:00
fabbionethe only person that seems to understand xkb is denis07:00
fabbione(and upstream of course)07:00
fabbioneregarding the regression is a chicken egg problem at this point in time07:01
fabbioneeither i revert the changes done between ubuntu23 and ubuntu2407:01
fabbionebut we lose a big bunch of layouts07:01
fabbioneor we try to update to the last changes Denis did.07:01
fabbioneAlso Denis commented a lot in the bug reports07:01
fabbionethat most of these problems are also application problems07:01
fabbioneand he explained some workaround that I am NOT happy to implement07:02
fabbioneand daniels agreed too07:02
fabbionelike using the alt:whatever_win option in X07:02
fabbionei truly believe that the best thing to do is keep going on Denis direction07:03
fabbionealso becuase the same things will hit Debian soon07:03
fabbioneand we will not be too different in that area07:03
mdzthis sounds very risky07:04
fabbionein this area?07:04
mdzwe do not know how to test if the bugs are fixed, we do not know how to test for regressions, and we do not understand the system very well.  on all points we basically trust denis07:04
fabbioneeverything is risky07:04
fabbionemdz: that's what we are doing in debian too07:04
mdzfabbione: debian is not releasing in a few days07:05
mdzthey will have weeks or months to shake out the bugs07:05
fabbionemdz: that's not my point :-))07:05
fabbionethat neither Branden or I have the knowledge to say what Denis is doing is correct or not07:05
mdzwe cannot afford to take the same risks as Debian unstable07:05
fabbioneso he has kinda of "licence to kill"07:05
fabbionemdz: i don't disagree07:06
fabbionewhat i am saying is that there are 2 options07:06
fabbionewe kill the changes07:06
fabbionewe keep going on them07:06
mdzwhy can we not leave it alone?07:06
fabbionefirst option: we kill the layouts for a bunch of coutries (including ca)07:06
fabbionesecond option: we at least try to improve the situation07:07
fabbionei am not leaving it alone because we know that there are bugs and it is not working for everybody07:07
fabbionethe fact of killing layouts does not make me happy07:07
fabbionespecially when something like ca is involved07:08
fabbione.ca <-07:08
sivangmaybe get the changes on a seperate package , have it downloaded and tested by the reporting parties, just like after preview went out?07:09
mdzfabbione: how does the gnome keyboard capplet get information about the layouts?07:11
fabbionemdz: my best guess is that at the first startup it checks X config07:11
fabbionemdz: later it stores its own info07:11
fabbionereason why you can see the popup like: "hey you little punk! you changed the X config keyboard setup!!!"07:12
mdzfabbione: it has text descriptions for all layouts07:12
mdzwhich I do not see in the xkb data07:12
fabbionemdz: it depends how it is implemented07:12
mdzthis is another thing to be concerned about07:13
fabbionewhat i am sure about is that gnome doesn't know the xkb protocol upside down07:13
fabbioneand that's why there are inconsistencies07:13
fabbionewhat i am concerned about is why gnome needs its own keyboard layer, instead of using what is there already07:14
fabbionebut that's off topic now07:15
mdzdo you understand my concerns about these changes?07:15
fabbioneyes i do07:15
mdzthere are so many unknowns, and we could end up with a serious bug in the release that we can do nothing about07:15
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fabbionemdz: we can simply bounce the problem to the gnome people :)07:16
mdzthey will not be able to fix it in warty either07:16
fabbioneand tell them to write their application compliant to the X protocol07:16
fabbioneand they will tell that X has to be gnomified :P07:16
fabbioneso i mean i can leave it as it is now07:17
fabbionebut i don't think it will change anything07:17
mdz+  * Replace level3(ralt_switch_multikey) by level3(ralt_switch) in all07:19
mdz+    layouts so that symbols on the 4th column may be accessed with07:19
mdz+    Shift+Alt_R or Alt_R+Shift.  (Closes: #270235)07:19
mdzI have no idea what that is about07:19
mdzand it is only a severity: normal bug in Debian07:19
mdzI cannot say if the change is correct07:20
mdzI cannot test it07:20
mdzhow can I approve this kind of change for late inclusion in the release?07:21
lamontmdz: was there a 'how to get the old gdm splash' writeup somewhere?07:22
fabbionemdz: i am not trying to sell you a prodocut or something.. don't misunderstand me07:22
mdzlamont: FAQ07:22
fabbionemdz: i dunno that shit either. i am in the same position as you are. both cases we lose.07:22
fabbionemdz: either because we don't have the fix or because we might introduce a bug07:22
danielsfabbione: personally, I still prefer a whitelist to MAXRES07:23
mdzgiven a choice of two sets of bugs, I choose the known over the unknown every time07:23
danielslargely because timings can often be totally absolutely bong07:23
danielse.g. 2777x2700 or whatever it was07:23
danielsmdz: btw, there are about two people in the world with xkb knowledge -- denis and svu@fd.o07:24
fabbionemdz: ok. at what level do you want me to revert?07:24
mdzfabbione: let's go over the changes one by one07:24
fabbionedaniels: and Ivan Pascal07:24
mdzfabbione: what about this v4l stuff?07:24
fabbionemdz: it fixes the support for the v4l2 bttv07:24
mdzI didn't even know that X used v4l07:25
fabbionemdz: see the debian bug and the diff.07:25
mdzwhat applications use this interface?07:25
fabbione& CO?07:25
mdzxawtv opens /dev/video07:25
mdzor uses Xv07:25
fabbioneXv is for output07:25
fabbionewe are talking about input07:26
fabbioneif you have a video card with a bttv iface07:26
fabbione(like i ghave on my machine)07:26
fabbionei get the v4l loaded07:26
fabbioneotherwise i don't see tv ;)07:26
danielsfabbione: yeah, but after looking at his code, I'm convinced he doesn't know too much :P07:26
mdzfabbione: so it is for video cards with built-in capture?07:26
fabbionemdz: yes07:27
fabbionemdz: i saw it loaded also for normal tuners, but i cannot confirm 100% if 07:27
fabbioneit is used by them07:27
mdzI do not think it is used for a standalone capture card07:28
mdzX would not be involved at all07:28
mdzI have a bttv card07:28
mdzI do not even load the v4l module07:28
mdzfabbione: is your card broken without this patch?07:28
fabbioneit does on mine and i have a gfx card with bttv integrated07:28
fabbionemdz: no because mine is a v4l07:29
fabbionethe patch fixes v4l207:29
fabbionethat is the new protocol/standard07:29
fabbionemdz: but yes.. mine works07:29
mdzvery little uses v4l207:29
mdzfabbione: the 1152x768 thing is just adding a mode to the template choices, right?07:30
fabbionemdz: yes07:30
fabbionemdz: that's how i spotted also the other more generic problem07:30
mdzso carlos was affected by both of those bugs?07:30
fabbionemdz: yeps07:31
fabbionethe missing entry in the template07:31
fabbioneand the other thing we discussed before07:31
fabbioneit can definetely be improved.. but not for warty07:32
mdzthere were other reports of #2328?07:32
mdzeven carlos did not report this until today :-/07:33
fabbionemdz: mostly on irc and mailing list07:34
fabbionei don't have all the references at the moment07:34
fabbionebut i remember them for sure07:34
mdzthe other bugs we are fixing for final are melting laptops, breaking katie, security issues, and reverting one patch in hal07:36
fabbioneyes i read the mail07:37
mdzthe X issues don't seem to be of the same severity to me07:37
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fabbionemdz: let's drop ubuntu25 and that's it.07:39
fabbionepeople will have to wait for X.org07:39
mdzfabbione: I think that is for the best07:39
fabbionemdz: i agree only for one thing07:39
fabbioneand possibly the xkb stuff07:39
fabbionebut for the other fixes i don't07:40
fabbionein anycase we need to release07:40
fabbioneso people will get what's in now07:40
mdzI know it's hard to know about the bugs and not fix them, but sometimes that is what we need to do07:42
danielsfabbione: please put 099l and the XKB stuff in a TODO stuff somewhere07:46
fabbionedaniels: it's in bugzilla already07:47
daniels099l isn't07:47
fabbionedaniels: the XKB stuff we will go 100% upstream for X.org07:47
danielsbut I'll file that bug07:47
danielsnot for 6.807:48
danielsi can kick it upstream, but not for a 6.8.x release07:48
danielsbut if we use my modular approach, and use xkbdata from fd.o, I can kick it upstream there07:49
lamontmdz: are we supposed to get a libxvidcore4-dev somewhere/time?  a fair chunk of multiverse is blocked on it, if we care.07:52
fabbionelamont: marillat archive?07:52
lamontfabbione: it's more to get it shoved into the archive...07:53
lamontor dsl07:53
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fabbionelamont: i know that i get that package from marillat :-))07:54
fabbionelamont: that's it..07:55
fabbionei didn't follow multiverse too much 07:55
=== lamont only follows it to the extent that it sends him mail.
fabbionePackage: libxvidcore4-dev07:55
fabbioneSource: xvidcore07:55
fabbioneMaintainer: Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org>07:55
fabbioneprobably it wants more stuff07:56
lamontmultiverse/doc/xvidcore_1:0.9.2-0.3: Installed [optional:uncompiled] 07:56
lamontand therein lies the issue.07:57
pittiMorning, guys!07:57
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vorlonok, why does ubuntu's main archive include ndiswrapper-utils if there are no ndiswrapper module packages? :-)07:59
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sivangjust did an rc install.08:00
danielsvorlon: er, the ndiswrapper module is in the main kernel packages08:00
vorlondaniels: bah, that's cheating!08:00
sivangapart from d-i no saying "no enough room on drive" when choosing to install to not enough room partition, everything went swift08:01
sivangit's just ingnores your partitioning actions08:01
danielsvorlon: did you try 'sudo modprobe ndiswrapper'? :)08:01
=== lamont sleeps
vorlondaniels: no, it never occurred to me that it'd be part of the stock kernel package. Allow me to express my jealousy on behalf of sarge. ;)08:02
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danielsvorlon: heh, thanks.  graciously accepted. ;)08:03
mdzlamont: dunno about xvidcore, ask elmo08:03
mdzvorlon: hey08:04
fabbionehey vorlon 08:04
=== vorlon waves to the Night Crew.
=== mdz yawns
danielsyeah, I'm reppin' the night crew at 140708:05
=== daniels makes flashy hand signs.
=== sivang nearly drops infront of the new artwork
=== lamont makes a note to pass some questions on to silbs in the morning
sivangdarn. my lumix camera still doesn't work..08:07
sivangand it's a standard SD flash storage cam08:07
mdzfabbione: can you take care of gzip?   it needs for Tollef to verify the fix since he can reproduce it, and then I think it can be uploaded (more testing is appreciated of course)08:08
mdzI will need to sleep very soon08:08
danielsmdz: anything else to fix?  i'm currently wandering through the acpi fan/tz bug08:08
mdzdaniels: I posted a list to u-d08:08
vorlonok, ndiswrapper question solved, now all the system needs is a good tool for managing wireless connections for roaming users. ;)08:08
mdzbasically, severity: critical bugs08:08
danielsso you did, and I even replied to it08:08
mdzdaniels: #2341 could certairly use regression testing08:09
danielsmdz: yeah, I'll keep on that08:09
fabbionemdz: sure. go and get a good night rest08:12
fabbionemdz: i am doing regression testing on libtiff now08:12
Mithrandirmdz: pong08:12
mdzMithrandir: oh, good08:12
mdzMithrandir: I need you to test #185408:12
MithrandirI'll test08:13
pittisivang: please try http://www.piware.de/hal_0.2.98-1ubuntu9_i386.deb, maybe it works with your cam08:14
mdzok, I'll log out and leave it to you08:14
sivangpitti : ok, didn't know you were awake..:)08:14
pittisivang: I got up at 6am, because I went to my gf yesterday evening08:14
pittisivang: just returned home08:15
=== Mithrandir thinks it has been sillily little traffic on the torrent overnight, ~7G i386, ~2G amd64 ~0.15G ppc.
sivangpitti : ok going to test your packages08:16
=== pitti crosses his fingers
mdzMithrandir: yes, the response to RC has been understated08:16
=== pitti notices that one can't type with crossed fingers
mdzat least in part due to lack of slashdotting08:16
danielsok, I'm working on kernels to fix the thermal/fan issue08:17
danielsnew initrd-tools, then rebuilding kernels to deal with that08:17
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Mithrandirmdz: seems good so far, doing a bit more testing before letting you off the hook08:19
mdzdaniels: please go ahead and attach a proper debdiff to the bug; I don't think there is one already08:19
mdzMithrandir: do your worst08:19
sivangpitti : should I have done anything but dpkg - <pkg> and reconnect the camera?08:19
pittisivang: should work (if it works)08:19
sivangpitti : didn't :(08:20
pittisivang: damn!08:20
danielsmdz: will do08:20
mdzfabbione: portmap just did it again08:20
mdztcp        0      0 *:sunrpc                *:*                     LISTEN08:20
mdzPreparing to replace portmap 5-4ubuntu3 (using .../portmap_5-4ubuntu4_i386.deb) ...08:20
mdz * Stopping portmap daemon...                                            [ ok ] 08:20
mdzUnpacking replacement portmap ...08:20
mdzSetting up portmap (5-4ubuntu4) ...08:20
mdzInstalling new version of config file /etc/init.d/portmap ...08:20
pittisivang: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/FrequentlyAskedQuestions, point 808:20
mdz * Starting portmap daemon...                                            [ ok ] 08:20
mdz * Restoring old RPC service information...                              [ ok ] 08:20
mdztcp        0      0 *:sunrpc                *:*                     LISTEN08:20
mdzoh, my /etc/default/portmap is wrong08:22
mdzis the one in the package correct08:22
sivangpitti : there a bug# to attach to?08:22
pittisivang: just mail the stuff to me08:22
mdzno, it is totally buggy08:22
sivangpitti : sure, no probe08:22
fabbionemdz: the one in the pkg has ARG="-i"08:22
mdzthere is one out there with OPTIONS= in it08:23
fabbione# By default, listen only on the loopback interface08:23
mdzrather than ARGS08:23
mdzare you sure that is the one in the archive?08:23
fabbionemdz: this is your package08:23
sivangpitti : hal sees it, btw08:23
mdzfabbione: the one I uploaded to the archive was wrong08:23
pittisivang: that's good08:23
mdzI am fucking up left and right, need to sleep08:24
fabbionemdz: ok go to sleep08:24
mdzfabbione: will you fix it?08:24
fabbionemdz: i will upload asap the portmap with ARGS08:24
mdzgreat, thanks08:24
mdzgood night all08:24
fabbionemdz: libtiff is ready for upload too08:24
fabbionemdz: regression tests are ok08:24
sivangnight mdz08:24
fabbionemdz: and the new package spawns proper errors08:24
pittimdz: new hal package is on http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~pitti/utopia/08:25
pittimdz: shall I anounce it separately or do you want to copy it in your repo?08:25
fabbione"Programmers don't die! they just GOSUB without RETURN"08:26
Mithrandir11 upgraded, 601 newly installed, 0 to remove and 97 not upgraded.08:26
MithrandirNeed to get 415MB of archives.08:26
Mithrandirthat should be a nice test.08:26
pittimdz: night08:27
danielsmdz: sleep well, dude08:27
sivangpitti : sent08:27
fabbionemdz: fixed portmap and fixed tiff are up08:30
fabbionemdz: good night dude :-))08:30
danielsmy DSL hates me for downloaing the kernel stuff, and my laptop will hate me for compiling it08:32
fabbionethe moving company is here08:32
sivangpitti : any luck?08:36
Mithrandirmdz: I'm happy.08:39
sivangpitti : at first glance the code looks ok, though it lacks sufficient documentation to my taste08:41
pittisivang: which code?08:42
Mithrandiricky, debootstrap + apt-get install ubuntu-desktop breaks:08:43
MithrandirUnpacking lsb (from .../archives/lsb_2.0-1_i386.deb) ...08:43
Mithrandirdpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/lsb_2.0-1_i386.deb (--unpack):08:43
Mithrandir trying to overwrite `/lib/lsb/init-functions', which is also in package lsb-base08:43
Mithrandirdpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)08:43
sivangpitti : network-admin08:43
pittisivang: the code looks good???? It's a mess!08:43
fabbioneMithrandir: that's bad!08:43
pittisivang: well, not a mess, but a little more synchronous wouldn't have hurt08:44
fabbionehow come we didn't see that with cd install?08:44
Mithrandirfabbione: I don't know08:44
sivangpitti : well, I did find it _very_ hard to see where it really sends requests to the backends, but then again one cannot disregard my newbieness on this :)08:44
fabbioneMithrandir: ok. let me see if it happens here too08:44
fabbioneMithrandir: did you use any special command to bootstrap?08:45
fabbioneor just debootstrap -> chroot apt-get install ?08:46
sivangpitti : I have been trying to get a hold of where this _actually_ happens. in regard to #222108:46
Mithrandirfabbione: yes, just debootstrap + apt-get install08:46
Mithrandir(naturally creating a sources.list between)08:47
fabbioneyeah :-)08:47
Mithrandirprobably my fault, I had ftp.se in sources.list; will have to try again08:48
sivanganyway, need to get some sleep. nighterz all08:48
fabbionei am checking now08:48
fabbionealmost completed the bootstrap08:48
fabbioneapt-get install now08:49
fabbione *art-stop-daemon: nothing in /proc - not mounted?                       [fail] 08:55
fabbionethere is something wrong with the error message08:55
fabbioneit's lacking a char08:55
fabbioneand a space08:55
Mithrandirftp.ubuntu.com is slooow08:57
Mithrandironly 1MByte/sec08:57
danielswonder how much auckland is pushing out08:57
fabbioneit looks ok here08:57
Mithrandirfabbione: ook, good, checking myself as well08:58
fabbioneMithrandir: i confirm.. it's ok here09:01
fabbioneok we are still at 9 RC bugs09:02
Mithrandirthat's 9 too many :/09:03
Mithrandir1854 is fixed, just pending upload09:03
fabbioneMithrandir: if it works i guess you can go with it09:04
Mithrandirnah, mdz has the fixed package in rc-bugs-fixes (or what it's called), so he09:06
Mithrandir's handling it.09:06
=== Mithrandir runs off for class
fabbioneMithrandir: later mate09:09
danielskernel ftbfs.09:14
danielscp -p debian/patches/00list-17 debian/patches/00list09:14
danielscp: cannot stat `debian/patches/00list-17': No such file or directory09:14
danielsmake[1] : *** [debian/monolith/patch-]  Error 109:14
danielsmake[1] : Leaving directory `/home/daniels/canonical/kernel/linux-source-'09:14
jdubmdz: we will almost certainly replace fam for hoary.09:23
danielsjdub: with gamin?09:24
|trey|daniels: yes, says that on the HoaryHedgehog release plans  :)09:24
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danielsah right, figured out the correlation09:35
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fabbionesince there are only RC bugs left and assigned09:39
fabbioneit's time to start to do something more interesting ;)09:39
plovs_workwiki still does not work, //htdocs/warthogs/css/common.css was not found on this server09:45
plovs_workmoinmoin not correctly configured?09:45
plovs_workmight be missing: Alias /wiki/ "/usr/local/share/moin/htdocs/" in /etc/httpd/httpd.conf09:50
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-6-116.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionehey seb128 !09:52
seb128hello fabbione 09:53
pittiHi seb128!10:03
seb128hello pitti 10:03
fabbionedaniels: nobody other than Danzer commented on the way i proposed to split the includes10:11
fabbionedaniels: i am definetely going to divide them10:11
danielsi need to give it more thought10:11
fabbionedaniels: ok. for me it's either solution 3 or solution 410:12
fabbionedaniels: given that we will hit that problem10:12
fabbionedaniels: we don't know yet10:12
danielsi like the way I split it up :)10:13
fabbionedaniels: i don't trust the way you did :P10:17
danielsfabbione: heh, why not?10:29
fabbionedaniels: just shitting on you :)10:32
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fabbionedaniels: did you book the flight and the hotel?10:33
fabbionei kinda need to know when you will arrive to come and pick u up at the airport10:34
danielsfabbione: flight booked, haven't found a hotel yet10:34
fabbionedaniels: ok. do you want me to search one for you?10:34
danielsfabbione: i arrive on the 31st of nov, probably late10:34
fabbione31st of Nov??10:34
danielsfabbione: if you could find one, that would be great.  it's kinda hard to find one just in english :)10:34
fabbionetime doesn't really matter10:35
fabbionesure i will take a look10:35
fabbionedo you have any special requirements?10:35
danielsnot really, no10:35
danielsinternet access probably preferred10:35
fabbionedaniels: i will see what i can find10:36
fabbionebudget/day ?10:36
danielsthere seems to be a strong correlation between having an english-language website and being bloody expensive ;)10:36
danielsthanks a lot10:36
=== mvo [~egon@suprimo-215.ping.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbioneoh everybody or almost speaks english10:36
fabbioneso that's not a problem10:36
danielsdunno, probably below EUR10010:36
danielsask the people approving the budget ;)10:36
danielsbut yeah10:37
fabbionedaniels: ok10:37
danielsi don't know how cheap/expensive hotels are there though10:37
fabbioneneither do i :)10:37
fabbionei just realized that i didn't read d-d ml for like 3 weeks and there was not even an interesting message10:39
fabbionei should consider to unsub from it10:39
danielsi haven't been subscribed for ages now10:40
danielsi'm not missing it10:40
=== rburton [~ross@82-44-126-41.cable.ubr03.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionehey rburton 10:51
rburtonhi fabbione10:51
seb128hum, I've some files corruption and crashes, seems to be a memory problem :/10:53
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thomi feel so much more human after 13hours sleep11:15
danielsthom: word11:16
danielsthom: ready to get back into the firefox groove? ;)11:16
danielsi busted into 12 lsat night11:16
thomi was checking that apache2 patch last night and it took me 5 attempts to type RENEGOTIATION11:18
thomwhich was not ideal11:18
Kamion9 hours sleep, not what I needed but it'll do for now11:18
danielsthom: hey man, I typoed VERBOSITY into VEROBSITY11:19
danielsthom: and I counted eight attempts to type my GnuPG password before I nailed it11:19
=== fabbione kills more needs of X11 ;)
fabbionedaniels: xconfig is now perfectly able to bootstrap without the need of external includes11:39
fabbionenot even the evil ../../exports/include11:40
danielsi hate ../../exports/include11:42
danielshm.  lots of people suggesting forums instead of lists, but IME, forums scale far, far, far, far, far worse than lists.11:43
rburtonforums suck donkey balls11:44
rburtonpersonally i'd create a forum but say that ubuntu support is primarily on the lists11:44
rburtonthen i'd get the IPs of people who use the forum, find out where they live, and send them hate mail11:45
=== rburton appears to be in a bad mood today
thomdaniels: why are you doing new kernel packages to fix the thermal/fan problem?11:45
danielsthom: new initrd11:45
thomwhen the trivial fix is a two line flip of mkinitrd11:45
Kamionuh. doesn't the initrd get built on the fly?11:46
thomdaniels: uh, you know the initrd is generated at install time11:46
danielsholdasec, gotta clean up, apparently. (/me is sick of being dragged away from work)11:46
fabbioneKamion: indeed it is11:46
Kamionrun the installer with a hacked initrd-tools dropped in11:46
=== mjg59 is entertained by the response to the artwork
Mithrandirhi Matthew11:48
fabbionexmkmf 11:49
fabbioneimake -DUseInstalled -I/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config11:49
fabbionexmkmf 11:49
fabbioneimake -DUseInstalled -I/usr/share/xorg/config11:49
fabbioneMithrandir: see what i mean ;)11:49
Mithrandirfabbione: huh?  wrt nvidia-settings?11:49
thomas long as the forums/lists are bidirectional gated11:50
thomand only for the users list11:50
fabbioneMithrandir: yes11:50
Mithrandirand doesn't break threads, include the author's name and such.11:50
Mithrandirfabbione: what you mean I need to run both xmkmf and imake?11:50
thomand does in reply to right11:50
fabbioneMithrandir: no no... when i asked you to switch from a generated Makefile to use xmkmf11:51
fabbioneMithrandir: one upload and it's done automatically with the new settings11:51
Mithrandiroh, ok.11:52
=== rburton reads ubuntu-users archive, rofl at keybuk's black death comment
danielsthom: cool, I suck.11:57
danielsKamion: should I have a bash at a CD image with a hacked initrd-tools and ask the ACPI bongsippers to drop it in?11:58
danielsthom: ubuntuforums.org has a bidirectional list<->forums gate11:58
Kamiondaniels: sounds plausible to me; new package, edit dists/warty/main/binary-i386/{Packages,Packages.gz} and dists/warty/Release11:58
thomdaniels: what? just put the initrd-tools somewhere and then do "apt-get --reinstall linux-image-foo"11:58
danielsKamion: phat11:59
Kamionthe rune to make the ISO is "mkisofs -r -V 'Ubuntu 4.10 i386 Bin-1' -o warty-install-i386-hacked.iso -cache-inodes -J -l -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c isolinux/boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table wherever-your-new-tree-is"11:59
danielsthom: yeah, because we need a higher barrier to entry when convincing people to test :P11:59
thom--reinstall install11:59
danielsKamion: i am in awe of your d-i skillz11:59
thomdaniels: WHATevah. but the two main whiners are spiv and keybuk, so they're gonna do what i'm suggesting i'd bet12:00
danielsthom: fair cpo12:00
danielsalso, fair cop12:00
Kamion"in addition ..."12:00
Kamion"AMONG our spelling errors"12:00
mjg59daniels: Intel's download for the extreme graphics drivers seems to include support for putting different displays on the different pipes - do you know if this is supported by the free drivers?12:02
danielsmjg59: i don't believe so.  is intel's download sourceful?12:04
mjg59I'd always assumed that there stuff was just rebuilt source, but it doesn't sound like it12:06
mjg59ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/7485/ENG/readme.txt and http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df/filter_results.asp?strOSs=39&strTypes=DRV%2CARC&ProductID=922&OSFullName=Linux*&submit=Go%2112:06
KamionALTERNATIVES="b2m ctags ebrowse emacsclient etags grep-changelog rcs-checkin "12:10
Kamion  for i in `echo ${ALTERNATIVES} | grep -v emacs`12:10
danielsLICENSE. You may copy the Software onto a single computer for 12:10
danielsyour personal, noncommercial use, and you may make one back-up 12:10
danielscopy of the Software, subject to these conditions: 12:10
Kamionspot the OBVIOUS ERROR12:10
danielsmjg59: dude.12:10
danielsKamion: empty ${ALTERNATIVES}12:10
Kamiondaniels: nope12:11
danielsKamion: well, it will be after grep has finished with it12:11
Kamiondaniels: yep :)12:11
Kamionobviously was *meant* to remove all the words in $ALTERNATIVES that don't contain 'emacs', but ...12:12
mjg59daniels: It's obviously derived from the same code12:12
danielsmjg59: i'm not overly keen on chancing it, at any rate12:12
thomKamion: yeah. oops12:12
mjg59daniels: Oh, hang on - Xorg has the same code12:12
mjg59Man. Now I need Xorg.12:13
danielsmjg59: (note that the i915 stuff was done by Tungsten, on contract to Intel, so Intel could get a licence)12:13
danielsmjg59: bahbahbah12:13
mjg59New in 6.8.012:13
danielsyeah, the i915 merge was done about 3 months ago, maybe 412:14
danielsobviously it has phat i8xx features as well12:14
danielshey, this could be a good thing for me, too12:14
sabdflmjg59: if you want it you must have it! (in hoary)12:14
=== daniels ramps it twenty spots up his priority list.
danielssabdfl: dude, Hoary will clean my teeth and make my coffee12:14
sabdflphew, that's a relief. not the coffee.12:15
=== mjg59 discovers that the secret to mad phat support is to get all the developers to own identical hardware to you
thomdaniels: does it fix the crackful i8xx crash that we were seeing with xresprobe? :P12:16
danielsthom: you think this laptop's seen Xorg?12:17
danielsmjg59: (and mark)12:17
danielssabdfl: heh :)12:17
=== Kamion notes idly that we're releasing Array CD 1 in four days
Kamionaccording to HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule12:18
danielsKamion: ...12:18
danielsKamion: isn't hoary ... empty?12:18
thomKamion: yeah, i have the sneaking suspicion that might slip12:18
KamionI suppose this might depend slightly on hoary existing12:18
danielsKamion: hey man, the suite's there, don't knock it12:19
thomhrm. i really should buy a copy of Hackers and Painters12:19
danielsi could upload X to it with the change to make it not write a log message every time the screensaver comes on if you wanted it ;)12:19
mjg59http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5130553701&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT - 100 AU$?12:19
mjg59(Not that I'm not tempted anyway)12:20
danielsmjg59: but I am.  bastard.12:20
mjg59Oh, I'm massively tempted12:20
mjg59I've got an Amiga Unix machine12:20
mjg59But I'm using dodgily obtained install media that's not entirely up to date (as much as any software that was killed in 1992 can ever be up to date, but still)12:21
daniels$30 postage?12:21
mjg59From New Zealand12:21
danielsha ha.12:24
danielsgcc ICEd during the kernel compile anyway12:24
danielsoh man.12:24
daniels<3 gcc12:25
mjg59 gcc12:27
danielsxn--d0ha04i gcc12:28
daniels(my setup is not utf-8-compliant, because screen hates me)12:29
mjg59I was bored enough yesterday that I wrote an xchat script so my quotes are automatically made pretty12:29
danielsdo you want to package X.Org instead? :P12:29
danielsoh my god.12:29
=== Kamion installs idn so he can decode daniels' punycode
mjg59My christ, what have I started?12:30
Kamionuh. *was* that punycode?12:31
Kamionah, idn -u manages it12:31
=== Kinnison [~dsilvers@host81-153-126-219.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KinnisonKamion coerced me into joining here.12:35
danielsabout time12:35
=== Kinnison has said that he'll join the desktop team if (and only if) colin writes lucille
danielswriting Lucille would be pretty rad12:36
Kinnisonfsvo. rad12:37
|trey|What is Lucille?12:39
KinnisonNever mind12:39
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lifelessKinnison: see the bug in cscvs native protocol ?12:43
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sabdfl|trey|: lucille is the tool we are writing that will let us publish ubuntu packages more effectively12:51
|trey|hmm  :)12:51
sabdfli don't think Kinnison was talking to you with the "never mind"12:51
sabdflcrosstalk :-)12:51
=== |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== |trey| points at the last section of the Topic before RC bugs :)
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:thom] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 9 RC bugs to go
=== Kamion tries to clean up his last-minute hacks on the cdimage machine
Kamionthom: could I have gpg on little, please? signed archives and all that ...01:05
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thominterestingly, while there were way more torrented downloads of PPC for the preview, amd64 is about double for the RC01:32
azeemso this means amd64 users reinstall each time they download a new iso01:32
elmoduh.. do we want the daily d-i images to still go in?01:41
elmoI guess so, but we should add "disable warty daily d-i build" to the final's release TODO list01:42
Kamionelmo: right01:42
Kamionprobably won't need it between now and release, but I haven't quite got a feel for what mdz is going to want me to change01:43
sabdfli suspect it just means that someone in the amd64 community pointed out the rc01:58
Mithrandiramd64 people are more likely to be early adopters as well, as it's a fairly new architecture, so you'll get tinkerers who, well, tinker with their machines02:00
sabdflpr0n lovers02:01
Mithrandiryeah, and the amd64 is so pr0n loving and heard about the artwork, so...02:01
sabdflanybody know when we can expect to see gfx cards that do >8bit per channel?02:02
Mithrandirso you could get true truecolor?02:02
sabdflisn't truecolor 8bits per rg and b?02:02
sabdflwe really need more02:02
Mithrandiryou have 32 bits as well, since most computers are faster at working with 32 bit increments than 24 bits.02:03
sabdflapparently the film industry uses specialised monitors and gfx cards that do 16 bit depth per channel02:03
sabdfla hoary question...02:03
Mithrandirpersonally, I don't need more, but then, I'm not making movies. :)02:03
sabdflcould we bring the machine up sanely without networking?02:04
sabdfland have services discover networks as they are brought up?02:04
sabdflthe pause during dhcp is... irritating02:04
thomsabdfl: that is how NetworkManager (and by extension, fedora core 3) works02:04
Mithrandirproblem with ifplugd (or an equivalent) is broken hardware.02:04
sabdflis this something we could aim for with hoary?02:05
Mithrandiroh, you mean just running the dhcp client in the background?02:05
sabdfltogether with dependency-based init?02:05
thomsabdfl: networkmanager is a release goal02:05
thomso yeah, we'll be looking at it02:05
sabdflMithrandir: i think that runs the risk that a service like apache comes up before dhcp has bound to an address02:05
sabdflthom: great, thanks02:05
Mithrandirsabdfl: doesn't matter if it listens to
thomdependency based init would be nice too02:05
sabdflMithrandir: or for that matter02:06
Mithrandirsabdfl: for it matters, since then it only listens on loopback, but if you listen on, it'll automatically listen on newly created interfaces.02:06
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sivangis there anyway we could make the wallpaper be more bright? I wanna see the models better .. :)02:16
sivangpitti : any more LUMUX troubleshooting we can do to make it work?02:17
pittisivang: If it works on your sid kernel, then you could file the information as a bug against the Ubuntu kernel02:18
sivangpitti : ok, no probe.02:18
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lamontF S UID        PID  PPID  C PRI  NI ADDR SZ WCHAN  STIME TTY          TIME CMD02:41
lamont0 D lamont     644     1  0  76   0 -   629 mempoo 00:05 ?        00:00:02 growi02:41
lamontis 6 hours a long time to be blocked on mempool?02:41
amug'day 02:42
lamontg'day amu02:42
lamontI think I get to reboot..02:42
fabbionehey amu02:42
thomseb128: how do i convince gnome that i have french installed?02:43
thomi've reconfigured locales to add fr_FR*02:43
amuhai lamont, fabbione02:44
seb128thom: what are you trying to do ?02:48
seb128thom: start a session in french ? just an app ?02:48
thomi want to start a session in french02:49
thomwell, i don't want to. i need to :-)02:49
Mithrandirthom: crazy person.02:49
thomseb128: if i set the language as french in gdm (running in xnest) gnome tells me that no such language is installed02:51
thomLanguage fr_FR does not exist, using System default02:52
thombut it lets me choose it in gdm02:52
seb128thom: dpkg-reconfigure locales and select fr_FR@euro or fr_FR.UTF-8 ?02:54
=== netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
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pittiGuys, why do you continuously disappear and appear again?02:58
Mithrandir14:57 -!- Netsplit burroughs.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: rabidbt02:59
Mithrandir14:57 -!- Netsplit burroughs.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: pitti, 02:59
thomfreenode sucks, film at 1102:59
pittioh, scary02:59
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pittiah, from your POV rabidbt and pitti disappeared?03:00
seb128thom: so, I was saying ... you have the fr_FR@euro locale generated with dpkg-reconfigure locales ?03:00
thomi generated all the fr_FR locales after it didn't work the first time03:01
Mithrandirpitti: yes, and a fair number more.03:01
thomand all of them give the same error03:02
thombrand new user, too03:02
=== rabidbt [~rabidbt@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionpitti: IRC is client <-> server (<-> server)* <-> client03:02
Kamionpitti: if one of the links in the middle fails, you get netsplits.03:02
pittiKamion: thanks for that explanation!03:02
Mithrandiryeah, and the IRC servers are organized in a tree, so you can have small splits if just a server splits off, or huge splits if the root loses some of its links.03:03
thomhttps://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2294 please review patch :-)03:03
Mithrandirthom: use if [ "$results" ]  rather than if [ ! -z ...03:04
Mithrandiror -n if you must03:05
thomwant to change as little as possible03:05
Mithrandirand decide on [ ]  or test, not both. :)03:05
thomi'll clean up post warty03:05
thombut i want that patch in warty03:05
Mithrandirlooks good to me03:06
=== Mithrandir grabs his "APPROVED" stamp and stamps thom, err, the patch.
thomseb128: note that i did this post install, does gnome do anything locale related at install time that i'd need to kick?03:10
seb128I've already added some locales to reproduce bugs03:14
seb128just dpkg-reconfigure, pick the locale03:14
seb128and then select it in the gdm menu03:14
thomok, it could be an x nest03:14
=== thom logs out fully
rburtonstrange that reportbug sends mail to ubuntu-users03:18
thomas it turns out, gnome can't detect languages until you restart gdm entirely. ho-hum03:18
thomrburton: nothing else we can really do with it03:18
rburtoni guess not03:18
thomanyone would think that we didn't have a bugzilla hacker employed to write us an xml-rpc version, but anyway03:19
thomseb128: OOI, if you install mozilla-firefox-locale-fr, does it give you a french firefox from the menu entry?03:24
thomi'm trying to reproduce #235903:24
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:thom] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 10 RC bugs to go
seb128thom: lemme test, I use epiphany03:25
thomand yes, i know :-)03:26
seb128with firefox 0.99+1.0PR.1+revertedto0.9.3-0ubuntu1 that's ok03:27
seb128I'm upgrading it to see if that's still ok with the current version03:28
seb128thom: yes, works fine with the current version too03:34
seb128thom: do you have the problem on your box ?03:34
rburtonif i wanted to install ubuntu on a machine with a cd drive and can't be arsed with netboots, is there an easy way?03:47
rburtoni.e. a floppy bootstrap03:47
Kamionsorry, CD and netboot are all we do at the moment; USB will probably happen shortly after warty, too03:51
Kamiondunno about floppies yet, they're quite a pain to support well03:51
danielsMithrandir: [X]  SATISFACTORY [ ]  UNSATISFACTORY03:52
rburtonKamion: any quick guides on netboot? not done that before...03:53
rburtonor would it be quicker to find a cd-rom drive :)03:53
Kamionrburton: there's a pxeboot.tar.gz which is supposed to set it all up in one shot for you; never actually tried it myself, I must admit03:58
rburtonKamion: where is that file?04:02
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Kamionrburton: /dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/ on the mirror of your choice04:04
amunew iso mirror with a 1,7TByte connection http://source.rfc822.org/pub/mirror/releases.ubuntu.com/ 04:04
Kamionamu: could you put that on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive?04:04
rburtonKamion: thanks04:05
amuKamion: yap04:06
rburtondaniels: ping?04:10
thomthe pxeboot works great04:15
thomjust follow the steps on the debian wiki 04:15
rburtonah debian wiki04:15
rburtongood plan04:16
thomrburton: i installed my X40 that way ;-)04:16
rburtonwiki.debian.net, right? 04:16
=== rburton prods web server
Keybukyou pretty much untar pxeboot.tar.gz in your tftproot04:16
thomyeah, it just useful to know the runes for the dhcp setup04:17
Kamionit's called netboot.tar.gz in Debian now I think04:17
Keybukthen stick 'next-server ip-of-tftp-server;' and 'filename "pxelinux.0";' in the dhcp host bit for the machine you want to boot04:17
rburtonso its a dhcpd + tftpd thing04:17
Keybukhost elite_wired {04:20
Keybuk        hardware ethernet 00:b0:d0:a4:40:9a;04:20
Keybuk        fixed-address elite.netsplit.com;04:20
Keybuk        next-server descent.netsplit.com;04:20
Keybuk        filename "pxelinux.0";04:20
rburtonKeybuk: cheers04:21
Keybukassuming you don't already have dhcp setup, you'll probably need a subnet { } gubbins as well04:21
rburtonwe've got dhcp already04:22
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-12-161.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsheh, whoops04:25
danielsalmost as bad as rebooting the wrong machine -- was logged into my desktop upstairs (sitting on my laptop at the lounge), it's 12:30, and accidentally put Aphex Twin on at earsplitting volume04:25
danielstook me a second to notice because it was normal volume for my earphones04:25
danielskinda twigged when I could feel the bass vibrations though :P04:26
bob2see, I bet your family didn't appreciate the funny side of being woke up to screams of "I WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT YOUR SOUL"04:26
daniels'how to win friends and impress your neighbours'04:26
danielsbob2: luckily it was Girl/Boy Song, not o/~ i would like some milk from the milkman's wife's tits04:26
rburtondaniels: "man, these headphones *rock*"04:26
danielsrburton: heh04:26
daniels'GREAT SOUND!'04:26
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bob2daniels: the milkman's wife is totally on the top of his...04:27
=== sivang away
danielsbob2: HAHA04:28
danielsthat adds a whole new perspective to that whole new film04:28
bob2I'm still emotionally scarred by it04:30
Keybukya know, I've just realised -- our desktop-icon-less desktop is perfect04:30
Keybukyou can click on it and type "captain" without any fiddling04:30
bob2Kamion: just do it04:31
sabdfl captain?04:31
danielsdoesn't it give you an easter egg about campd being lonely?04:31
bob2daniels: u suck04:31
Kamionuh, that would require me to go upstairs :)04:31
sabdfloh dear04:31
sabdflhow many calls does he get?04:32
Keybuka few :)04:32
danielsluckily he's a relatively good-humoured guy04:32
sabdfldon't you dare04:32
danielseven if he has thrown his laptop through a wall once04:32
Keybuksabdfl: Applications -> Run Application ... "free the fish" is slightly less amusing04:32
danielsoh dear, it's wanda04:33
Keybukthough it gets *really* annoying after a while04:33
danielsif you click on it it goes the hell away04:33
Keybukdaniels: and comes back later04:33
Keybukyou have to kill gnome-panel to stop it04:33
bob26 days out from release and now you have fish on EVERYONE'S DESKTOP04:33
sabdflmake it go away!04:33
danielsif that came back at the wrong moment, I would seriously put an FUCK OFF FISH axe through my crt04:34
Keybuksabdfl: Applications -> Run Application ... "killall gnome-panel" :)04:34
Keybukdaniels: it *used* to be on all the time, in GNOME 1.4 era; but would only appear at *really* rare times04:34
danielsit's only come back once and it's even more infurating than the typing monitor spawning at the exact wrong moment04:34
danielsKeybuk: so much ARGH bong04:34
Keybukone of those random times was while Nat was doing a big presentation04:34
=== daniels executes his panel.
danielsKeybuk: copped it04:34
danielsKeybuk: hey, btw -- new deb up04:35
daniels'and for my next trick, I'll actually swap the load order!'04:35
Keybukdaniels: you learned to use vi this time?04:35
danielsKeybuk: i blame a mixture of being distracted by a visitor, the X40's keyboard, and, um, RSI04:36
KeybukRSI ... not JD ?04:36
danielsor something04:36
KeybukJack Daniels04:36
danielsso far you've connected repetitive strain injury, a UK Debian developer, and some really bad whisky04:37
danielsi just finished the bottle of Red Eye -- it hasn't kicked in, so make the connection for me04:37
Keybukdaniels: now I just have to link them to the drawing room and I WIN!!!04:37
danielsKeybuk: bah, rubbishing me in multiple media04:38
danielsi have to look stupid on IRC, the lists, and Bugzilla :P04:38
Keybukyou do exceptionally well at it, I must say :o)04:38
Keybukthough that new initrd-tools is much better04:39
danielsthankyou dear04:39
danielsnice to know I'm appreciated for my talents (specifically, court jester)04:39
Keybukhey, that's my job!04:40
=== bob2 is happy to hand that mantle over to daniels
rburtona double-act!04:40
danielsbob2: no, you're just the sideshow04:41
danielsi'm the main attraction :)04:41
danielshm, having a NEEDINFOer would be nice04:42
danielse.g. I NEEDINFO from this person, so it shows on their list also04:42
danielsguilt-tripping Keybuk from afar04:42
bob2Dr Daniel and his Amazingly Astounding X Packages.04:42
Keybukdaniels: hrm?04:42
danielsKeybuk: you need to test 2341, duh :)04:43
Keybukdaniels: just have, fans are on04:44
danielsbob2: Marvel as be breaks mdz's machine!  Be astounded as he does yet another bloody XKB symlink!  Gasp as mdz looks at him threateningly!04:44
Keybukwell, three of them are on04:44
danielsKeybuk: phat04:44
danielsthree? that's halfway to a Hoverbook :)04:44
thom15:32 < iDunno> thom: who's responsible for the 'artwork' for gdm and the gnome startup?04:44
thom15:36 < Dave> erm04:44
thom15:36 < thom> da boss04:44
thom15:37 < Dave> thom: its horrid04:44
danielsdaniels@brenna:~/canonical/initrd-tools% ls /proc/acpi/fan04:44
danielsdaniels@brenna:~/canonical/initrd-tools% 04:44
bob2your x40 is called brenna?04:45
danielsalthough there's definitely one going; I just put my ear up to it and it blew a crapload of air into my ear.  go figure.04:45
thomthe x40's fan is hardware controlled afaik, not acpi controlled04:45
danielsbob2: brenna is tycho's girlfriend.  i've been through tycho (fooishbar.org), gabe (fd.o), twisp (pda), catsby (old laptop ... maybe I'll change to catsby when I reinstall tonight), brenna (x40), kara (unused -- gabe's wife), div (a Myth box I installed for a mate)04:46
Keybukthom: that kinda sucks04:46
danielsoh, and I called the laptop I had for LCA fruitfucker200004:46
=== Keybuk was playing the other day with having different trip_points for battery and AC
danielsKeybuk: not really; it just blows out the side anyway04:46
danielsKeybuk: so it's not like the OmniBook, where it FROZE YOUR FRIGGING LEG04:47
Kamionhas anyone tested lamont's live CD, then?04:47
=== daniels took to having a small script to just disable it every five seconds, as its only use was to make your right leg so cold it got really, really sore.
Keybukdaniels: yeah, but fans use power, so it's nice to be able to control them yourself04:47
danielsKeybuk: ah, I don't worry about power consumption, you see04:48
Keybukfor FAN in /proc/acpi/fan/*; do echo 0 > $FAN; done ... cold leg04:48
Keybukfor FAN in /proc/acpi/fan/*; do echo 3 > $FAN; done ... cold leg04:48
Keybukuh, that second should be warm leg :p04:48
bob2daniels: ahhhh04:48
danielsbut my left leg was always boiling (sometimes to the point of sweating profusely) whatever I did04:49
bob2I'm scared my ibook will set fire to my desk in the summer04:49
danielsthe fan blew straight on to my right leg (the idea was to have it elevated, and run under the laptop to ventilate the left side), so it didn't actually cool the left side.  at all.04:49
bob2hammering the disk makes it too hot to have on your lap04:49
thomKeybuk: given that the x40 appears to have a single fan and the hardware appears to get it right, i'm not too fussed04:49
Kamionbob2: same with a powerbook04:49
danielsthe x40 also very, very rarely gets hot04:49
Kamionin winter you can compile kernels to keep yourself warm04:49
danielsthe only time I've ever actually noticed it -- and I wasn't actually uncomfortable -- was after it had been building X on AC power (thus un-SpeedStepped) for a couple of hours04:50
danielsKamion: ever owned an ia64? ;)04:50
Kamionnope :)04:50
bob2Kamion: hehe, the powersupply is good for chilly toes04:50
Kamionthe CD drive generates a fair bit of heat, actually04:50
Kamiontaking the CD out is generally useful04:50
danielsbob2: yeah, I used to love that about the OmniBook04:52
danielsbob2: until one day where I burnt the underside of my toes and lost some skin04:52
danielsafter that, I'd just go find some socks04:52
Kamionsocks for your arse?04:53
bob2daniels is "unique".04:53
danielsKamion: just realised that as my music is all track%d.cdda.ogg when ripped now, not %d-audiotrack.ogg, my small tracknumber script (a horrible sed hack) has been putting on track numbers of 'tr' for a couple of CDs04:53
danielsand there are no good tag editors04:53
danielsthe only one I could find was catbus or something, and it's *abysmal*.04:54
danielsalias tn='for i in *.ogg; do echo TRACKNUMBER=`echo $i | sed -e "s/^\(..\).*$/\1/; s/^0//;"` | vorbiscomment -a $i; done'04:54
rburtondaniels: the new musicbrainz library has an accoustic fingerprint tagger04:54
rburtonso in theory it will tag without asking you04:54
pittidaniels: easytag is not bad IMHO04:56
pittidaniels: I have used it for quite a while04:56
danielsrburton: nice04:56
pittidaniels: it can rename files after tags, or the other way round; quite flexible04:57
danielsrburton: the only problem I have with SJ is that (aside from never having seen musicbrainz support ever activate) is that I rip a lot of compilations04:57
danielsand for that I want %d - Artist Name - Track Name.ogg, whereas I just want %d - Track Name.ogg for single-artist stuff04:57
danielsso I have my own Python script that DTRT according to a very small file I write04:57
rburtondaniels: hrm04:58
danielsrburton: that and quality support for oggenc :P04:58
rburtoni want to say "use a decent media player" so you don't see the filenames04:58
rburtondaniels: sj in cvs has profile support04:58
rburtoninteresting problem though04:58
danielsrburton: oh?05:03
danielsrburton: yeah, I keep meaning to, but mainly because of the compilation issue, end up back at the command line05:03
danielsrburton: rhythmbox isn't quite usable on 1024 -- just not enough screen real estate.  i use it on 1600 tho.05:03
rburtondaniels: tried muine?05:04
danielsrburton: yeah, rather liked it, but just didn't scale05:04
rburtoni guess the album view doesn't work too well with a huge album list05:05
bob2hm, I kept meaning to true muine05:06
rburtonits not bad05:06
bob2I'll just wait until I have enough time to write my twisted music playing thing05:06
danielsrburton: although I did like how it was pretty smart about compilations05:07
danielsok, can other people please try the new initrd-tools to ensure they get no regressions?05:07
danielsi'll be trying it here when I reinstall, but just to make sure05:07
danielshowever that will be badly skewed by the (purely anecdotally observed) connection between Gentoo users and web forums05:21
bob2hm, interesting05:22
bob2isn't Mepis Yet Another Sid Snapshot LiveCD Thingy?05:22
azeemthey tend to be non-free with their additions though, AFAIK05:23
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danielsmdz: permission to upload initrd-tools?  only change is the reversal of fan/thermal load order.05:25
bob2lamont: thanks for getting kismet going05:26
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danielsazeem: bong :\05:28
lamontbob2: np.  amd64 is still missing, though.05:28
rburtoncdrdao isn't part of the base install?05:36
=== bob2 watches daniels get trolled about X
bob2lamont: hah, I'll bitch again if/when I justify one of them :)05:38
lamontbob2: when you do bitch, send me the patch to snacc to make it run on 64-bit, and I'll be happy. :-)05:38
lamontthen again, there might already be a patch for that.  hrm.05:39
Kamionarse, gtk themes are compiled against gtk-x11 etc.05:42
lamontwhat does it mean when growisofs goes into an uninteruptible sleep on 'mempoo' and never comes back, I wonder.05:44
lamontother than 'time to finish the upgrade to RC'...05:45
lamontKamion: how did you invoke alextreme yesterday? email?05:48
Kamionlamont: yes05:48
Kamionlamont: took an hour or two IIRC05:48
lamontok.  I'll do that after I finish rebooting..05:48
danielsoh man. people seem to actually own ISA sound cards.06:00
elmoan upgrade, just brought up a nautlius window06:09
danielselmo: hal restarted.  thought we fixed that bug.06:09
danielselmo: does sudo /etc/init.d/dbus-1 restart, trigger it?06:09
Kamiongah. why can't I compile gtk with multiple gdk frontends at once, eh?06:10
Keybukdaniels: yeah, dbus-1 restart triggers it here06:10
KeybukI just got two spanking new windows06:10
danielsman, if there was ever an example of 'don't put off till tomorrow what you can rewrite today', it's apt-cacher.  sweet jesus.06:11
danielshack city.06:11
danielsKeybuk: bah.  what version of hal?06:11
Keybuk0.22-1ubuntu2 of dbus-106:11
danielsdbus-1's version is unimportant, it's just that it runs hal from event.d :)06:11
Keybukdaniels: if you do dbus-1 restart on your machine, do you get a / window ?06:12
danielsKeybuk: not a / window, no06:12
danielsdon't think so06:12
danielsdoesn't happen for me with ubuntu806:13
pittiThis was not a hal bug, but a g-v-m one06:13
Keybukit only happens for me once, the first time06:13
danielspitti: oh?06:13
danielspitti: oh right, yeah06:14
=== daniels takes another hit.
danielsKeybuk: g-v-m version?06:14
danielsgah, apparently 'cleaning up' in this house means 'move Daniel's thumbdrive somewhere he can't find it'; that's like the fourth time this week06:14
Keybuk1.0.2-0ubuntu5 of g-v-m06:14
danielsyou've been running your session for a while :)06:15
pittidaniels, Keybuk: actually this should be fixed in ubuntu506:15
danielskillall gnome-volume-manager && gnome-volume-manager &|06:15
pittidoes it still occur?06:15
Keybukpitti: well, it just occured now06:15
pittiKeybuk: damn, g-v-m now should know about device states...06:15
danielsKeybuk: yes, but is the *running* g-v-m (i.e. the one started when your session was) ubuntu5?06:15
Keybukdaniels: just checking that now06:15
KeybukI'm trying to remember how to get the exact start time of a process06:18
daniels09:15 < daniels> killall gnome-volume-manager && gnome-volume-manager &|06:18
danielsunless you're really attached to your current g-v-m instance :P06:18
pittione is as good as the other06:19
Keybukit looks to me like I'm running ubuntu5 now06:19
Keybukdescent scott% killall gnome-volume-manager && gnome-volume-manager &|06:20
Keybukdescent scott% umount: only root can unmount /dev/hda1 from /boot06:20
Keybukumount: only root can unmount /dev/hda3 from /06:20
Keybukafter killing, it seems ok, I can restart dbus *shrug*06:21
danielsright, so it *is* fixed06:22
danielselmo: does that work for you too?06:22
Keybuk(and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why Windows makes you reboot after any install :p)06:23
=== Keybuk tries that to see whether it happens again
elmodaniels: restarting dbus doesn't make it happen again for me06:25
danielselmo: phat, thanks06:26
elmono I mean even without the killal stuff :)06:27
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danielsheh, wack06:28
Keybukyeah, seems ok now06:28
KeybukI love how with the same number of processes running, the free memory is much higher after a reboot06:29
Keybukand the free disk space has gone up as well, shows this thing really did need a reboot <g>06:33
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Keybukmdz, seb128: did we get gnome-applets 2.8.1 or into Ubuntu?06:50
Keybukthe latter looks like it fixes a pretty silly crash06:50
lamontso gnome-background-proerties should do something after it's windo is created, right?  (like add buttons, fill in the big white box I see, etc...)06:50
lamontmuch happier when root runs it...06:51
seb128Keybuk: 2.8.106:52
seb128Keybuk: has been released yesterday06:53
Keybuk * Fix possible crasher in gweather preferences (Mark McLoughlin)06:55
Keybuk * Fix error in Italian translation that caused gweather to not parse the location list (Kjarten Maraas)06:55
Keybukto me that seems reasonable to let in *shrug*  up to mdz though06:55
seb128I've 2 other important fixes too, but mdz said it's too late for changes yesterday06:56
lamontpost-RC is not the time to introduce fixes for non-RC bugs...06:56
seb128a fix for gok which just crashes when you run it06:56
seb128and a fix for a data corruption with the ftp method (and perhaps the http one too) in nautilus06:57
Keybukdo we want italians to be able to use gweather? :p06:57
seb128oh, that's probably the error that I've fixed in 2.8.1-0ubuntu2 06:58
seb128a <<...> instead <...> breaking the Locations.xml06:58
seb128it was breaking the locations for everybody06:58
Keybukah ok, so we got that in then06:59
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=== __randy__ [~randy@sclab-25-433.sclab.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsmdz: 'morning.  how was your sleep?07:24
pittiHi mdz!07:24
danielsmdz: looks like you finally got some proper sleep07:24
mdzMithrandir: still here?07:25
thommdz: morning 07:26
=== mdz stretches and yawns
mdzis everyone happy with gzip?07:26
mdzI'd like to get that uploaded07:27
thommdz: it seems to be working fine for me07:27
mdzI beat on it fairly hard last night with apt and apt-extracttemplates07:27
mdzand Mithrandir confirmed it fixed his bug07:27
danielsmdz: it's not broken anything for me on up i38607:29
danielsmdz: permission to upload initrd-tools to fix 2341?07:31
danielsmdz: (there's now an interdiff on p.u.c/~daniels/thermal-fans/source/)07:31
mdzdaniels: what's this about a kernel ftbfs?07:32
mdzdiff looks exactly right07:33
mdzhow much testing has it gotten?07:33
danielsmdz: that was me not realising you had to copy 00list-$(debrevision-1) to 00list-$(debrevision)07:33
danielsmdz: keybuk says it's OK, so do my own two machines (neither of which have fans, mind)07:33
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mdzI made the change on my laptop last night07:34
mdzthe fan module doesn't seem to work now, but I'm not entirely sure whether it worked before either07:34
Kamionmdz: there's still some missing branding in the installation manual, specifically the installation howto (which says stuff like "Debian GNU/Linux warty")07:34
danielsmdz: ugh, bongtastic07:34
Kamionmdz: can I re-upload debian-installer at some point to fix that?07:34
danielscan someone with a currently working fan setup (ACPI fan, and working when thermal is loaded before fan) please test the new initrd? download initrd-tools from p.u.c/~daniels/thermal-fans/all/, install it, and run apt-get install --reinstall linux-image-<flavourofchoice>07:35
mdzKamion: can it be the last d-i upload for Warty?07:36
Kamionmdz: probably :-)07:36
KeybukI don't see why it'd break anything.  The installer already loads fan before thermal anyway, and before thom added those modprobes to the initrd the acpid init script loaded them and loads fan before thermal07:36
thommdz: would you agree the fix to laptop-detect is rc, and can i upload it?07:36
KamionI'll do a really good read-through of the installer this weekend07:36
Kamioner, installer manual07:36
danielsKeybuk: yeah, but um, having testing would be good07:36
mdzKamion: maybe for Hoary we should split out the manual into a separate source packagae so that the doc team can beat on it07:36
danielsi'd test it, but the x40 fans are hardware, not acpi07:37
mdzdaniels: I think the same of T4207:37
mdzthom: bug#?07:37
Kamionmdz: the reason why it's there in the first place is that katie/wanna-build falls over if you try to upload a package containing only byhand components07:37
Kamion(or something similar)07:37
mdzKamion: sounds like a bug :-)07:37
Kamionbasically it doesn't get autobuilt that way07:37
mdzit could build an installation-guide.deb, no?07:38
danielsmdz: if /proc/acpi/fan is empty, you have no ACPI fans07:38
thommdz: 229407:38
mdzdaniels: correct07:38
Kamionmdz: er, it does07:38
Kamionmdz: but the manual is arch-specific07:38
mdzKamion: aren't debs not-byhand components?07:38
Kamionmdz: yes, that's why one of them is there07:38
danielsmdz: by the way, SiS have fucked us.  either we pick a lot of PCI-to-AGP bridges as video cards, or we pick a few video cards as PCI-to-AGP bridges.  the former results in a broken configuration, the latter results in the user having to nominate that they have an SiS card.  guess which one I picked :)07:38
Kamionmdz: otherwise it would be just the initrd tarballs, and those need to be autobuilt too07:39
danielsmdz: (:0001 is used for TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CLASSES OF PCI DEVICE)07:39
mdzKamion: ah, gotcha07:39
mdzKamion: I thought you were saying the doc package would be byhand-only, but you meant d-i itself07:39
Kamionmdz: right. joeyh wrestled with this a lot a while back; the current situation is the resulting compromise07:39
mdzdaniels: ok to upload initrd-tools07:39
Kamionmdz: surely for a doc team we can simply let them commit to the right bit of arch07:39
danielsmdz: thanks07:40
mdzKamion: yes, but we still have to get the stuff uploaded somehow07:40
tsenganyone know how i could track down a seemingly random hardlock?07:40
Kamionmdz: sure, but d-i gets uploaded regularly anyway for other reasons07:40
mdzit would be nice to be able to loosen the reins for doc updates without worrying about all the byhand stuff that d-i involves07:40
Keybuk0000:00:00.0 Class 0600: 1039:0745 (rev 01)07:40
Keybuk0000:00:01.0 Class 0604: 1039:000107:40
Keybuk0000:00:02.0 Class 0601: 1039:001807:40
mdztseng: ctrl+scrollock07:40
Kamionmdz: you can't make changes to initrd stuff without new d-i builds07:41
mdzor sysrq+t07:41
Kamionmdz: I don't really think this is a problem07:41
Kamionanyway, have to go now :)07:41
Keybuk^ the SiS bridge here has an 0600 class07:41
danielsKeybuk: yes, but 1039:0001 is ambiguous -- it is both a video card, and a PCI-to-AGP bridge07:42
mdzdaniels: ah, so that was a local kernel build that was breaking for you07:42
Keybukdaniels: yeah, so check the class07:43
danielsfor some reason, discover does totally bong matching (it forces the types of what it detected and what's in the file to equality if the PCI ID is the same, so no way to specify two classes, one ID), and I do *not* want to touch that code.  i tried a couple of fixes and it broke stuff.  so I just let it go, and both :0001 sis video users can deal.07:43
danielsmdz: yeah, not an RC bug07:43
danielsspeaking of RC bugs07:43
Keybukdiscover is broken07:43
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:daniels] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 9 RC bugs to go
danielsKeybuk: no, really?!?07:43
Keybukvendors are allowed to allocate the same id to two devices, provided they have different major classes, if I recall PCI correctly07:43
danielsKeybuk: that's crap07:44
danielsKeybuk: i don't think discover has a bridge class anyway, so lots and lots of stuff would break.  infeasible to change it.07:44
danielswe'd just screw up more corner cases than we'd fix07:44
danielsmdz: comments on #2373?  i think it can be closed out-of-hand.07:45
Keybuk#define PCI_CLASS_BRIDGE_PCI            0x060407:45
Keybukit's reasonably clear what that device is :-)07:45
danielsKeybuk: yeah, but discover doesn't map this sanely to the 'bridge' class in pci.lst anyway07:46
danielsand half of them are down as unknown07:46
danielstightening matching would break us horribly07:46
Keybukdiscover doesn't even use the right list files, it has its own07:46
danielsassume we're talking about discover1 here07:46
mdzthom: I'm OK with uploading the fix in #229407:48
mdzthom: oh, wait07:48
mdzthom: that doesn't actually break any maintainer scripts, does it?07:48
mdzit just makes them think it's not a laptop07:48
Keybukmodules.pcimap has a specific 0600 class-match for sis-agp07:48
thommdz: yes07:50
mdzthom: send me a deb?07:51
mdzI'm in ultra-conservative asshole mode for Warty07:51
thommdz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~thom/laptop-detect_0.9_amd64.deb07:55
mdzew, it's arch-any?07:55
thommdz: has to be, to get the dmidecode dependencies right :(07:56
mdzthom: has someone tested it on powerpc?07:58
thommdz: dmidecode? upstream say no way, dunno if anyone has looked at making it work07:58
mdzthom: I mean laptop-detect07:58
thomlaptop-detect works fine on ppc07:59
mdzthe patched version?07:59
thomthe current patch? don't know07:59
thomif adding quotes to a variable breaks it, i'll be screamingly terrified08:00
danielsif you shang us a source package, I'll test it on i386, though I presume your X40 has also felt the love08:00
mdzthom: i know, it's incredibly trivial and obviously correct08:00
mdzbut my eyes lie to me sometimes08:00
mdzI don't think this G4 desktop has /proc/pmu08:00
danielsmdz: er, IIRC it should08:01
thomit ought to08:01
mdzok, can do then08:01
mdzmdz@max:~ $ laptop-detect08:02
mdzmdz@max:~ $ echo $?08:02
danielsmdz: sudo?08:02
danielsoh, nevermind.08:02
danielsexit 1 is success in thom's world ;)08:03
mdzmdz@max:~ $ grep Bat !$08:03
mdzgrep Bat /proc/pmu/info08:03
mdzBattery count          : 008:03
mdzthom: ok, fire away08:03
thomdaniels: no. exit 1 is failure, you freak08:03
thomit's called laptop-detect, not desktop-detecty08:03
danielsthom: ber08:03
=== lamont screams at ubuntu-sounds
danielsmdz: if I made thinkpad-x40-support mangle /boot/grub/menu.lst to ensure kopt contained acpi_sleep=s3_bios, would I hear the distant sound of baby jesus weeping?08:06
danielsmdz: (this is just going to be a p.u.c package with some acpi scripts)08:06
lamontif you have a sound-using app, and you click a button, it fails to open the sound device, since UBUNTU F(^%)%^G SOUNDS grabbed it to make a cute noise.08:06
mdzdaniels: that would be evil08:06
danielsmdz: suckful08:07
mdzlamont: open gstreamer-properties, set it to esdsink08:07
mdzanother of those settings upgrade bugs08:07
mdzesdsink should be the default on new installs08:07
lamontI just told the desktop to stop issuing sounds on events.08:07
mdzequally valid08:07
lamontwhich is what I had before the last upgrade magically enabled it.08:07
mdznow that one was correct08:08
mdzseb128: ping?08:08
mdzgstreamer-properties is still defaulting to OSS(!)08:08
=== lamont goes to stare at the livecd.
danielsthom: hm, speaking of acpi-support a blueskyism would be to have acpi-support-fallthrough or something with /etc/acpi/*08:08
danielsthom: so acpi-support-x40 could c/r/p it, and ditto for other setups if people want to make packages08:09
danielsmjg59: gplv2, or v2+?08:09
danielsmjg59: (your x40 acpi scripts)08:09
thomdaniels: Hoary :-)08:09
=== thom is ignoring all the firefox bugs until post warty, they're all trivial, and all likely fixed in 1.0
thomupstream have finally assigned someone to fix the crasher08:10
danielsthom: er yeah, I don't quite think we'll slip such a change through mdz for warty ;)08:12
mdzthom: hopefully 1.0 will arrive in time for the hoary freeze08:13
lamonttar tvzf boot/miniroot.gz 08:13
lamontlamont@mix:/media/cdrom0 $ 08:13
lamonthrm.. I think we might havea a winner08:13
thommdz: it should be, yeah08:14
mdzlamont: does it have the latest portmap on it?08:15
thommdz: december was the last estimate i saw08:16
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mdzthom: yeah, the last estimate we saw since the one that said 'september'08:17
lamontmdz: that was just looking at the CD that doesn't boot, trying to figure out what it's _supposed_ to look like08:19
mdzlamont: I think miniroot is a filesystem, not a tar08:20
lamontmdz: why, so it is.08:22
danielsmjg59: could I please get a copy of laptop-mode.sh (is it just /etc/init.d/laptop-mode?) and laptop.sh?08:23
thomdaniels: uh, apt-get install laptop-mode08:24
mdzpitti: It's hard to say no to #217708:24
thomdaniels: or just which laptop-mode08:24
mdzpitti: can you make packages available for testing before upload?08:24
pittimdz: sorry, was away for a moment. Of course08:25
pittimdz: I can put them into my utopia repo08:25
mdzpitti: are there other packages in there which are not destined for warty?08:25
pittimdz: if the patch is wrong, the worst thing is a memory leak08:25
pittimdz: no, currently only hal08:25
danielsthom: right, but mjg59 references laptop-mode.sh08:26
thomdaniels: same thing08:26
mdzI don't think it's security-relevant, but it's a big usability problem08:26
mdzand the fix is a very simple and very-safe one-liner08:26
thomdaniels: it's only packaged in ubuntu08:27
danielsthom: righto08:27
pittimdz: that's why I begged for approval :-)08:27
pittimdz: up08:28
mdzpitti: what's the sources.list entry?08:28
pittimdz: deb-src http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~pitti/utopia/  /08:29
mdz(for source packageS)08:29
pittimdz: same for binary08:29
mdzFailed to fetch http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~pitti/utopia/gnome-system-tools_1.0.0.orig.tar.gz  404 Not Found08:34
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mdzlamont: did you get email from alex?08:38
mdzlamont: he says he told you the problem was that you need to modprobe loop08:38
thommdz: ooi, when is unstable getting synced for hoary? start of next week?08:42
lamontjust now08:42
mdzthom: I think it should start as soon as warty is out08:43
danielsthom: thinkpad-x40-support stuff on p.u.c/~daniels/x40 as a very first crack (it installs OK, seems to work, but it's what I had anyway); if you wouldn't mind giving it a geeze when you've got a sec, that'd be ill08:43
thomdaniels: sick.08:43
danielsthom: phat08:43
thommdz: rightyho. might want to fix the release schedule then :-)08:44
daniels0445, that sounds like new-netinst-o'clock!08:44
mdzlamont: can you do a new test build?08:44
=== daniels does a last rsync of his homedir before he shoves his /home into ext3.
mjg59daniels: laptop-mode.sh is the one that's in the kernel docs08:46
lamontthom: I need loop on macaroni... where does it's kernel come from?08:46
mjg59The idea is just to call something that switches it on and off08:46
Mithrandirmdz: pong08:46
mjg59Oh, and GPL 2, ideally08:46
thomlamont: custom08:46
mdzMithrandir: was just going to interrogate you about gzip some more, but i've uploaded it now08:46
=== lamont grovels
Mithrandirmdz: ok08:46
danielsmjg59: is that /usr/sbin/laptop-mode?08:47
lamontthom: liveCD's are blocked by lack of loop love.08:47
danielsmjg59: ok, I'll fix debian/copyright (right now it's 2+)08:47
danielsmjg59: cheers08:47
mjg59daniels: Probably, yup08:47
thomdaniels: yes, laptop-mode ships that shell script as usr/sbin/laptop-mode08:47
thomlamont: gar and other words08:48
lamontthom: yeah.  other words for sure.08:49
lamontthom: no pressure and all that, but eta?08:49
elmoI'll deal with it08:49
lamontelmo: thanks. quiescing that buildd08:49
mdzlamont: let me know the moment you have an image up that I can test08:50
lamontmdz: will do08:50
danielshttp://www.gnome.org/~calum/blog/gnome.org/2004-10/2004-10-13@1328 -- so much crack08:51
thomdaniels: that'd rock hard08:52
lamontDrop a file on their head to send it to them.08:52
pittimdz: sorry, I did not put the orig.tar.gz there08:52
danielsthom: yeah, the good sort of crack.  but crack nonetheless.08:53
danielsi find the idea of having jdub's hackergotchi staring out from my panel kind of unnerving :)08:53
pittimdz: try again, please08:54
mdzpitti: I already grabbed it from the main archive08:56
elmolamont: done08:57
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:daniels] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 8 RC bugs to go
mdzpitti: network-admin sees to work fine09:01
lamontmdz: was running about 20 minutes to build a broken CD...09:01
pittimdz: for me, too09:02
pittimdz: I also asked my flatmate to test it09:03
pittimdz: works for him09:03
mdzpitti: ok, please upload09:03
pittimdz: it'll be my pleasure :-)09:03
pittimdz: BTW, if we already are at violating the freeze rules :-)09:03
pittimdz: how long do you think should the hal stay in the unofficial repo?09:04
pittimdz: I'm not sure what the optimal balance between early testers and left time to the release is09:04
pittimdz: the more early we throw the package into the official archive, the more time we have to fix it again and also have more testers09:05
pittimdz: OTOH it still should receive one or two days of testing09:05
seb128mdz: pong09:05
=== inklingx [~inklingx@u212-239-167-156.adsl.pi.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzseb128: on a fresh install, I opened gstreamer-properties, and it says OSS09:06
mdzseb128: shouldn't it be esd by default?09:06
seb128yes, should09:06
seb128I'm looking for it09:06
seb128thom: ping ?09:07
thomseb128: word09:07
seb128  * Set default audiosink to "esdsink" (Warty #1349)09:07
seb128 -- Thom May <thom@canonical.com>  Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:20:48 +010009:07
seb128how did you make this change ?09:07
thomchanged the schema09:08
seb128directly ?09:08
seb128ie: not patch in debian/patches ?09:08
thomchanged the schema.in, yeah09:08
seb128that's it09:08
thomah, sorry09:08
seb128I only keep the debian/ dir between versions09:09
seb128I should have checked that more carrefully09:09
seb128mdz: fixing right now, the change was made directly in the source and has been dropped on the upgrade09:09
pittiseb128: btw, uupdate is really nice for such things09:15
seb128pitti: yes, but usually I just keep the debian/ dir because all the changes are here on the GNOME packages09:16
seb128so I'm sure to not keep crap out of this09:16
pittiseb128: I remember packages which did changes which were already fixed upstream directly in the code09:16
lamonthrm... that's a bit different09:17
lamontwrong, but different.09:17
seb128pitti: oh yeah, if the change are in the upstream devel tree no point to keep them for the new version09:17
=== lamont refuses to believe that 56MB is enough
=== smurfixx [~smurfix@run.smurf.noris.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== smurfixx is now known as smurfix
danielsKamion: ping?09:18
seb128pitti: mixing changes in a big .diff.gz makes the work really harder to do09:18
lamontOpening input: File too large09:18
danielsKamion: there's a user here who cannot install linux-image-386 off the cd with no network09:18
daniels12:12 <jimi>   linux-386: Depends: linux-image-386 but it is not installable09:21
daniels12:12 <jimi>              Depends: linux-restricted-modules-386 but it is not going to be installed09:21
danielsKamion: (that was from d-i; unfortunately they no longer have the machine in d-i, so can't beat any debugging info out of them)09:21
danielsKamion: can't see off the top of my head why the l-i-386 on the cd is uninstallable09:21
danielsKamion: but it may be that it gets installed when only the network stuff is in the sources.list?09:22
mdzfabbione: ping?09:22
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:daniels] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 6 (count 'em) RC bugs to go
=== Mithrandir is a bit angry at himself for not seeing the acx100_pci problem on amd64 earlier.
pittifabbione: ugh, and all kernel bugs. Poor herbert...09:24
danielspitti: yeah, and all totally wack ACPI bugs09:24
daniels#1922 seems to be caused by the acpi.sf.net patchset, of all things :\09:25
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 6 (count 'em) major bugs
mdzconsider RC = severity>=critical for the remainder of the release09:25
mdzelmo: here?09:25
danielsmdz: sure09:26
danielsmdz: zero RC bugs to go09:26
mdzMithrandir: isn't #2377 a bug you already fixed?09:26
danielsKamion: 12:11 <jimi> W: Couldn't stat source package list file: warty/main Packages 09:27
daniels             (/var/lib/apt/lists/_cdrom_dists_warty_main_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory)09:27
danielsKamion: hm, upon further inspection -- that's the CD.09:27
danielsKamion: *wack*.09:27
Mithrandirmdz: looks a bit like the one I fixed, but not exactly.09:29
mdzMithrandir: the fact that he says it worked before is suspicious09:29
Mithrandiryeah, as I don't think grub has been changed in the last week, has it?09:30
=== _rene_ [~rene@dsl-082-083-172-225.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzMithrandir: no, please ask any necessary questions that I haven't already asked09:30
_rene_mdz: that bibliography bugs is powerpc-specific, yes09:31
_rene_mdz: (of OOo), forgot the number..09:31
mdz_rene_: 1903?09:31
Mithrandirmdz: buy me a couple of 2G sticks and I'll test with my home box? ;P09:32
_rene_mdz: yes09:33
_rene_mdz: debian bug 21684809:33
Mithrandirmdz: there's no way that problem didn't exist on Oct 8th.09:33
_rene_and btw, you use GNOME 2.8, right?09:34
_rene_have you fixed debian bug 272638?09:34
mdzMithrandir: we don't have time for shipping around hardware; can you debug it with the submitter?09:34
Mithrandirmdz: I can try, sure.09:34
=== _rene_ is currently doing this
Mithrandirmdz: I wasn't serious about it either, though.09:35
mdz_rene_: unless the bug is RC or independently reported by an Ubuntu user, probably not09:35
lamontso, 1050803 KB doesn't compress so well into a CD image.09:35
=== Mithrandir goes to reboot his system to recover the number of ptys
_rene_mdz: ok, it imho is a stopper for me. since you can't open files from GNOME without this09:35
lamontthen again, unmounting proc would help.09:36
mdz_rene_: oh, yes, we did fix that09:36
_rene_ah, k...09:37
mdz_rene_: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=64809:37
_rene_mdz: p.d.o/~rene/openoffice.org/sysui-mimetypes.diff...09:38
_rene_mdz: made today, where were the patches you promise to give back? ;)09:39
_rene_oh, we should call update-desktop-database, too?09:39
thom_rene_: yes09:39
_rene_just run it? with or without args?09:40
_rene_which args?09:40
_rene_that script unfortunately is undocumented...09:40
_rene_(yes, I know of dh_desktop but that's not yet available in sarge...)09:41
_rene_erm, nm09:42
=== _rene_ looks in debhelper
_rene_ah, ok09:43
_rene_mdz: expect a 1.1.2-6 with these and some other patches in the next days09:45
_rene_mdz: when are you going to release?09:45
mdz_rene_: that bug did not apply to Debian, did it?09:48
mdzI thought it was only with GNOME 2.809:49
_rene_yes, but it was reported since $reporter used gnome from experimental09:49
mdz_rene_: we release on 10/20; we are only accepting fixes for showstopper bugs and safe trivila fixes09:49
_rene_I don't see why it shouldn't be fixed in the deb anyway :)09:49
seb128_rene_: what's the problem ?09:49
mdzseb128: #64809:50
seb128oh ok09:50
_rene_mdz: oh, any you probably want the openoffice.org-debian-files I am just preparing..09:50
seb128yeah, that's GNOME 2.8 material09:50
mdz_rene_: showstopper bugs and safe trivial fixes only09:51
_rene_mdz: ah, well, I'll let you decide..09:51
seb128mdz: permission to make a gok upload ? The rules were in the wrong order in debian/rules, the schemas is not registred and gok just crashes09:51
mdz_rene_: do you have a changelog?09:51
mdzseb128: bug#?09:52
_rene_not yet but I can tell you :)09:52
_rene_- minor typo fix in manpafe (\fb -> \fB)09:52
mdz_rene_: we're in an ultra-conservative posture right now09:52
_rene_- run setofficelang.bin with -f09:52
seb128mdz: #2141, but I've not attached the patch ... I've just changed the cdbs rules in debian/rules to match all the other GNOME packages09:53
_rene_that latter fixes the problem that OOo doesn't start after initial setup09:53
mdzseb128: can you attach a patch?09:53
seb128mdz: ok09:53
seb128mdz: done09:55
mdzseb128: hmm?  I don't see it09:55
mdzwrong bug maybe?09:55
mdzoh, you added it as a comment09:55
mdzrather than an attachment09:55
mdzseb128: ok, looks good, go ahead09:55
mdzsince it doesn't seem to work at all, I don't suppose it could get worse from this :-)09:56
seb128yeah :)09:57
_rene_mdz: p.d.o/~rene/openoffice.org/oo-d-f.patch <-- 2 lines...09:57
mdz_rene_: I haven't seen the problem where oo.o doesn't start after initial setup09:57
mdzit seems to work for me09:57
_rene_mdz: erm, ignore that comment in the file. *fixes*09:57
_rene_mdz: oh?09:57
_rene_or something like that?09:58
mdz_rene_: I do fresh Ubuntu installs on a regular basis, and starting oo.o is one of my test cases09:58
_rene_I can reproduce this here at will09:58
_rene_(with de_DE)09:58
mdz_rene_: is there some way I can test, having already setup oo.o?09:58
mdzrm -rf .openofice .sversionrc?09:59
_rene_export LANG="de_DE@euro" or so09:59
_rene_en_US works fine here, too09:59
_rene_probably because there is no UI language to change :)09:59
mdz_rene_: what does -f do?10:01
mdzah, otherwise it exits nonzero and so oo.o fails to start?10:02
mdz(due to the script exiting?)10:02
mdzor it changes the way setofficelang works?10:02
_rene_mdz: right. it exits 110:02
_rene_mdz: and exits the set -e script :)10:02
mdzok, I think we can take -5+110:02
_rene_s/exits 1/returns 1/10:02
seb128mdz: permission to upload gst-plugins0.8 with the schemas back to esdsink ?10:07
mdzseb128: yes10:08
mdzjdub: please tell me we can lose esd for hoary10:09
mdzthom: don't you have an ipw2100?10:11
thommdz: yeah?10:11
mdzthom: #236410:11
seb128mdz: #2384 please10:13
lamontthose with bandwidth: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/live.iso if you would be so kind.10:13
thommdz: my ipw2100 is working great, with the -15 kernel10:14
mdzseb128: the patch seems neither trivial nor obviously correct without context; can you explain it to me?10:14
mdzthom: please note that on the bug for Herbert10:15
thomwill do10:15
mdzthom: you're not up to -16?10:15
mdznot that it should matter10:15
=== albireo [~albireo@lns-vlq-6-82-65-50-151.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
seb128mdz: not looked on the details to be honest, I trust alex (the main gnome-vfs/nautilus devel) for this ... but I can look the detail if you want10:16
mdzseb128: if warty were released, would you still push this into warty-updates?  that is the kind of criteria we need to have at this time10:16
thommdz: no, i have a patched -15.1 with inotify, -16 doesn't fix anything i care about on the laptop10:17
thomall other machines are on 1610:17
seb128mdz: yes, that fixes a nasty data corruption during transferts10:18
=== lamont taps his foot
seb128alex was able to reproduce the bug, tested the fix and commited in 2.8 branch upstream10:19
seb128mdz: I'll just check what was the problem and what the fix does to be sure and ping you again10:19
seb128can't hurt to double check :)10:20
lamontnew X?????10:22
lamont-6ubuntu24, that is...10:22
lamontor maybe I'm just way behind on things..10:23
lamontyeah.  I'm way behind.  That was from Monday.10:23
=== lamont crawls back into the hole he crawled out of
=== Mithrandir crawls into bed.
_rene_mdz: uploaded10:33
_rene_mdz: take it from incoming in a few mins :)10:34
_rene_s/:/: you can/10:34
mdz_rene_: we wait for it to be available on ftp.uk.debian.org :-)10:34
_rene_mdz: ah, ok :-)10:34
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-242.uudial.uunet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== lamont has to go get the kids from school. back around 2200 UTC or so.
lamontalthough I may login in town and fetch bits.  dunno.10:39
=== azeem [~mbanck@socks-out.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== daniels attacks another vi mug full of Madagascan Vanilla tea.
lamontit'll be a few before I leave actually... brb10:45
tsengdaniels: please, think of the children!10:45
danielstseng: ?10:46
=== tseng hides.
tsengdaniels: sorry, i thought you were referencing the vim donate to starving kids deal10:47
tsengwrong country.10:47
danielsheh, no10:48
tseng:help iccf10:48
tsengmay i note that the old logo-only gdm theme isnt even present here anymore?10:49
tsengi keep hearing "those people arent the default"10:49
danielsd-i really does hate apt-cacher10:50
mdzdeservedly so10:52
mdzit's crap10:52
mdztseng: you're hearing that in the context of the wallpaper10:52
mdzthe new gdm theme is default10:53
tsengi see10:53
=== tseng digs around for the Industrial gdm theme =/
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybukwell, that was nice ... something just decided to make my machine down10:58
lamontmdz: any news?11:00
mdzlamont: ENOSPC11:01
mdzlamont: eta 20 minutes11:01
=== Capri [~makolb@mnch-d9ba4186.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KeybukOct 14 21:51:15 descent kernel: oom-killer: gfp_mask=0x1d211:02
Keybuk*shrug* aren't log messages great :o)11:02
=== lamont leaves to fetch kidlets, CD.
Keybukfigured it out11:04
=== Keybuk decides to beat elmo senseless
thomgood god. it's actually trying to snow or sleet11:04
=== Keybuk adds "ProxyCommand none" to his chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com .ssh/config entry
thomKeybuk: that's typically helpful, yes11:05
Keybukthat doesn't help11:06
KeybukI needed to add another host entry, adding it to the "chinstrap" one didn't actually turn off ProxyCommand11:07
=== _rene_ wonders whether he should buy a larger disk and help with testing/developing Ubuntu besides Debian stuff.
danielsthom: it's the UK, what do you expect? :)11:16
thomoctober is a little premature11:16
=== daniels looks outside to a bright, mild day; probably low-to-mid 20s.
danielsall this and it's only 0718.11:17
Keybukthom: it was pretty cold last night :-/11:18
seb128hate hate hate libtool, I keep getting app linked with both Xft == broken apps11:22
Keybukwell, don't link apps with both Xft then11:23
Keybukit's not libtool doing that to you11:23
Keybukit doesn't conjour dependencies out of thin air11:23
Keybukif you didn't use libtool, apps would still be linked with both Xft and still broken11:24
seb128yeah, probably, finding the problem is just a pain11:24
seb128for the moment I can't build gtk+ and control-center on my box11:24
seb128and now yelp in my jhbuild has the problem too11:25
seb128I'm decided to track this down, I just need to figure how :)11:25
danielsapt-get remove libxft111:25
seb12844 to remove11:26
seb128The following packages will be REMOVED:11:26
seb128  abiword-plugins capplets eterm galeon galeon-common gdeb gdm gimp gimp1.211:26
seb128  gksu gnome-applets gnome-applets-data gnome-applets-dev gnome-apt11:26
seb128  gnome-control-center gnome-netstatus-applet gnome-panel gnome-panel-data11:26
seb128  x-window-system-core xbase-clients xlibs11:26
seb128na, not good11:26
danielsthere's still that much stuff built against libxft1? that's total shit11:26
danielsunless xlibs still deps that, but I'd be pretty surprised11:27
danielsbut that could explain it11:27
Keybukseb128: libtool makes that easy!11:27
danielsanyway, breakfast time11:27
Keybukjust look for it in the .la files11:27
Keybukthe deepest one that contains /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.1 in its dependency_libs line is the culprit11:28
seb128no /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.1 in /usr/lib/*.la11:28
Keybukwhich ones have -lXft in them?11:29
seb128$ grep "lXft" /usr/lib/*.la11:29
seb128/usr/lib/libodbcinstQ.la:dependency_libs=' -L/usr/X11R6/lib /usr/lib/libqt-mt.la -laudio -lXt -lpng -lz -lGL -lXmu -lXrender -lXcursor -lXinerama_pic -lXft -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lSM -lICE -lXext -lX11 /usr/lib/libodbcinst.la /usr/lib/libodbc.la /usr/lib/libltdl.la -ldl -lpthread'11:29
seb128/usr/lib/libqt-mt.la:dependency_libs='-L/usr/X11R6/lib -lfontconfig -laudio -lXt -lpng -lz -lXrender -lXrandr -lXcursor -lXinerama -lXft -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lXext -lX11 -lm -lSM -lICE -ldl -lpthread '11:29
seb128that's all11:29
danielsdaniels@nanasawa:~/music/Aphex Twin/Richard D James Album% ls -l /usr/lib/libXft*.so11:30
danielslrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           15 2004-08-31 11:07 /usr/lib/libXft.so -> libXft.so.2.1.111:30
danielsi don't think you can actually link against libxft1 anymore11:30
seb128$  ls -l /usr/lib/libXft*.so11:30
seb128lrwxr-xr-x  1 root root 15 2004-05-31 19:02 /usr/lib/libXft.so -> libXft.so.2.1.111:30
Keybukdaniels: sure you can, it's in /usr/X11R6/lib11:30
danielsi think i stopped installing the .so with like xfree86_4.3.0-0ds3v211:30
Keybuklrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           13 2004-10-11 12:31 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so.1 -> libXft.so.1.111:30
danielsKeybuk: if you explicitly specify .so.1 ...11:31
seb128$ ls -l /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft*.so11:31
seb128lrwxr-xr-x  1 root root 11 2004-04-06 21:23 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so -> libXft.so.111:31
Keybukdaniels: that's why I asked him to look for that :p11:31
Keybukseb128: dpkg -S /usr/X11R6/lib/libXft.so11:31
seb128Keybuk: no package !?11:31
danielsseb128: wtf is that link coming from??11:31
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsremove it11:31
seb128I think a old mess with xfree package in unstable11:31
danielsthen recompile everything you ever built against that libXft11:32
danielsrun, don't walk11:32
Keybukseb128: that be your problem, as soon as you have -L/usr/X11R6/lib, GTK+ will link with that insteadf11:32
seb128Keybuk: oh ok, that would explain why I only get the problem on my box11:33
seb128I'm just wondering why this link is staying here11:33
danielsthat'll learn you for using unsupported, experimental, X 4.3 packages :P11:33
seb128daniels: yeah, I've used them :p11:34
danielsseb128: there's your problem, clearly!11:34
seb128I had a good reason, but I don't remember which one now :)11:34
Keybukbut why didn't the symlink vanish when he upgraded ?11:34
danielsthey were shiny? :P11:34
danielsKeybuk: i don't know.  sounds like total bong to me.11:34
seb128daniels: no, IIRC to reproduce some problem with totem ...11:34
KeybukI used the experimental 4.3 packages and I don't have that symlink11:34
sabdflkamion: so what are the rsync options for mirrors?11:35
sabdflthis gets the whole repo, right?11:35
sabdflwhat gets just the release cd images?11:35
sabdfland is there one that gets both, together?11:36
seb128daniels, Keybuk: thanks, much better now :)11:38
Keybuk"never attribute to libtool that which can be attributed to symlinks that aren't supposed to be there"11:39
seb128noted :)11:43
dokokeybuk: is this a rumor that libtools doesn't like `~' in directory names?11:43
Keybukprobably wouldn't, no :p11:44
Keybukdoesn't like spaces in them either11:44
dokoso the introduction of `~' in version numbers is pretty useless for packages using libtool ...11:45
jdubmdz: fam and esd are both on the HoaryHedgehog page, slated for replacement ;)11:51
thomthe Wallpaper of Controversial Chaos *giggle*11:51
=== jdub goes for breakfast
Keybukdoko: where is this rumour?11:58

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