Kamionsivang: I didn't expect to be quoted on that, I thought you were throwing out the artistic licence as a random idea and said on general principles that the clarified artistic is better12:21
Kamionsivang: my personal view is that the GPL's an excellent licence for documentation12:21
aswkamion: I agree with that. But there are circumstances where I think an invariant section is apropriate and in that case the GFDL is the only choice.  This leads to case-by-case decisions which I think is only fair. 12:29
asw(I agree that a copyleft license like the GPL is an excellent choice for documentation.) 12:30
aswI could even go further and say I think GPL should be the preferred choice. 12:30
asw(but this is a community decision... I'm just casting an opinion.) 12:32
Kamionso far I've just seen the GFDL's invariant sections abused far too much to be happy with them, really12:32
Kamionmost of the uses I've seen of them are actually not permitted under the terms of the GFDL, which leads me to believe that that provision is a shotgun loaded with rather too explosive bullets12:33
KamionI've seen documents full of technical content that was almost entirely designated as invariant12:34
Kamion(which the GFDL explicitly disallows, but it makes documents an enormous amount of work to categorise)12:34
aswkamion. it's impossible to permit (invariant) political speech without involving human judgement that it really is -- political speech -- 12:34
KamionI'd rather not have a licence with the GNU stamp on it permitting it at all12:35
Kamioninvariance, that is12:35
aswbut the point is that nothing deserves protection more than political speech.  If RMS can't include the GNU Manifesto in an emacs manual that just isn't freedom in any important sense. 12:35
KamionI think political speech should be freely quotable and modifiable provided that you don't remove credit from it12:35
Kamionthat is, after all, what real politicians do.12:36
KamionRMS can include the GNU manifesto if he's willing to allow people to quote from it and modify it as long as they make it clear that they've made changes12:36
Kamionthe fact that he's unwilling to do this is his own problem, not a matter for freedom12:37
Kamionand people should be allowed to remove the manifesto from the thing they're distributing if they don't like it12:37
Kamionhowever, that doesn't fit RMS' political goals12:40
Kamionwhich is all well and good, but "what RMS likes" isn't necessarily the same as free12:40
Kamionanyway, I'm ranting, time to do other things :)12:40
aswKamion would you be willing to have the GNU Emacs manual in Ubuntu if it includes the GNU Manifesto as an invariant section?  Would Ubuntu still be a project you could be proud of in that case?12:40
Kamionwhat goes into Ubuntu is not entirely my decision :)12:40
KamionI'm not willing to speak for Ubuntu on this.12:40
aswyes- but the goal in this community is consensus. 12:40
jdubasw: hrm, let's not use arguments like that to make points - it is not productive12:41
KamionThere are many things that I think should or should not happen; only a few of them get to significantly affect my pride in the project as a whole, whether the community as a whole agrees with me or not.12:43
Kamionor, in other words, what jdub said :)12:43
aswI can only speak for myself but I would personally be happier if manuals with invariant sections were included on a case by case basis.  If that's the ubuntu policy then I'm happy.  12:44
aswHaving said that I agree that it creates more work and should not be the default of any documentation we make. I already said I agree with kamion that the GPL is a fine license for that. 12:44
aswjdub? 12:44
amuI must note that, "in other words, what jdub said", sound cool12:45
Kamionasw: the Ubuntu licensing policy is here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/licensing - and it does say that we'll evaluate documentation on a case-by-case basis, so I think you're OK there.12:47
Kamionhence why I'm trying to separate out my personal opinions, and maybe not doing a very good job of it :)12:47
amuasw: thats something for my fortunes12:47
aswkamion: thanks for the link.  I suppose the point is that in practice that will mean reaching consensus on accepting/rejecting documents.  Sicne I think everybody agrees that an algorithm wont do it for us -- actual humans will have to make that decision.  Is there going to be a vote? I know who the ultimate decision maker will be but the point is that it should never have to reach that level...  [wikipedia has this problem with enforcin12:48
aswg neutral point of view.]  12:48
aswThere is no point of having a "case-by-case" policy if everybody knows in practice the community will reject every case an invariant section is included in a document. 12:49
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sivangKaimon : what would you say would be a good license to aid debian in using our works?12:51
aswI thought GPL was already proposed. 12:55
Kamionthat's my feeling, yes12:55
Kamionbut any simple GPL-style or BSD-style licence will get wide acceptance12:55
aswsivang would you be satisfied with GPL as default? 12:57
aswkaimon: believe it or not I had this exact conversation with the maintainer of the REC.GAMES.COREWAR FAQ over email.  I have offered to take over maintenance and re-license (from proprietary) to use GPL but he wants to use GFDL.  I hope to change his mind.  (I was only arguing for GFDL on case-by-case.)  12:58
asw[sigh]  maybe this is enough on licensing for one day... 01:00
KamionI had a rather extensive debate with the LDP guys a while back over licensing; kinda burned myself out on doc licensing back then :)01:00
Kamion(having an entire story on slashdot dedicated to flaming you personally tends to burn you out on things)01:00
asw[laughing]  I'm curious I want to go find the story now.  Where do I look? =^) 01:01
Kamionhm, it was back in 2001 or something01:02
KamionDecember 200101:03
Kamiona friend of mine's response to it was:01:03
Kamion"So, do you feel like a fascist? I shall expect to see a red flag flying01:03
Kamionoutside your house next time I drop by, assuming you're not out shooting01:03
Kamionsome Jews or something.01:03
aswI will look it up when I ahve a chance. [laughing some more]  01:03
aswKamion: are you the person to ask about 3D graphics support in upcoming releases. 01:04
aswI've offered to work on "ubuntu for scientists" but a more narrow (and doable) project is documenting X3D/VRML on Ubuntu.01:04
Kamionasw: no, fabbione/daniels might be better candidates01:04
aswunfortunately the reference implementation of X3D relies on Java...01:05
aswis there a Java policy yet?  anyone working on it? (I haven't even tried to get the java X3D viewer to work on my debian box but I might just do it on a clean ubuntu install.) 01:06
asw(believe it or not I haven't used windows for five+ years so I haven't got the java X3d viewer working anywhere.) 01:08
KamionI don't recall exactly where we landed, but getting X3D in will be a much easier sell if it works with one of the free JVMs01:09
aswx3d works without java01:10
Kamionthe ref impl, I mean01:10
Kamiongive it a try with jikes and kaffe01:10
aswfrankly I have little use for java when I can help it. It's just that 3d graphics is not what I want to spend my time doing and so using a standard like X3d seems the way to go (since I have a highly 3d application.)   01:11
aswI just wanted to know if there was a person thinking about "java" on ubuntu yet.01:11
aswthere is a very nice c++ toolkit http://artis.imag.fr/Software/X3D/ looking for a debian/ubuntu maintener.  It compiles out of the box on debian (sid) so it really shouldn't be much work to get it into an upcoming release. 01:14
=== AndyFitz [~andy@203-173-20-190.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdflasw: you're welcome to put a package together for universe01:14
aswfrankly. I'm still a newbie when it comes to maintaining packages. but I will if I can't find anybody else.  I'm just trying to get a feel for who is doing what. and how things are done around here. \01:15
Kamiongenerally the core team hasn't been putting any effort into anything that's not part of Ubuntu proper, short of occasionally poking it to make it build01:18
aswkamion & sabdfl: I will also aproach the x3d guys and see if they will help with supporting a free jvm.  01:19
Kamionpersonally if I wanted to get a package into universe I think I'd get it into Debian and watch it automatically propagate into Ubuntu :)01:19
sabdflor Ubuntu improper for that matter. *cough*01:19
Kamionsabdfl: :-)01:19
sabdflKamion: we'll have a faster process for universe, i think01:19
sabdflneed to figure out what that process is, exactly, but since we don't provide support for those packages our threshold can be fairly low01:20
Kamionjust feels easier to work with the community that way in the case of new packages01:20
Kamionbut I expect some people to disagree with me :)01:20
aswkamion: yeah, that was my plan. (I'll try and get the Inria X3D toolkit into Debian -- I already have the blessing of the upstream maintainer and as I said he already has it compile out of the box.) 01:20
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jdubKamion: totally agree, btw. having packages in our tree that are not in debian seems unwise (other than obviously ubuntu-specific things, like u-a)01:22
aswthis is a stupid question but what's a "core package" and how does it get there?  Is it like "main" in debian? or no? 01:23
Kamionasw: it's the bits we selected to make up Ubuntu (minus universe)01:23
jdubasw: the word 'core' doesn't mean anything in ubuntu land01:23
jdubasw: you probably mean main (which is base + desktop + supported seeds)01:24
jdub(and other bits to make all of that work)01:24
jdub(it's kinda complicated)01:24
Kamionit's accumulated an amusing amount of gargoyley bits in a mere six months01:25
Kamionreminds me; must get round to making germinate public.01:25
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
aswyou are going to do releases every six. It should get interesting. 01:26
Kamionoh, does anyone know how to mirror just part of an arch archive, or even if you can?01:26
KamionI realised that making germinate's history public means that I have to either do that or create some kind of a public branch01:27
Kamion(the archive containing germinate contains a bunch of other stuff as well, not sure whether all of it should be public)01:27
=== lamont returns
lamontsabdfl: ping01:31
sabdfllamont: hi01:32
lamontstatus on live cd01:32
lamontI think I have everything now to build bits at the house, which will shorten the turnaround on testing, although it's still 30+min/iteration01:33
Kamionheh, strange reversal; for me it always worked out faster to build in the datacentre, but that's because rsync works for me :)01:34
lamontI still need to catch another hour's sleep before I'm really safe to be doing any serious hacking01:34
lamontand then I need to deal with the other 3 of 4 splash screens01:34
lamontgrub says morphix, bootsplash is ubuntu, etc01:35
lamontthen I need to apply some sanity filters to the packages and where they're coming from01:35
lamontall in all, I'm hoping to have something for the developer community tonight sometime, and more general release tomorrow night (US times)01:36
lamontsabdfl: actually, looking at people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty-live-20041015-20.iso the grub splash is the only really unacceptable one.01:37
sabdflok, thanks for the update01:38
sabdfllamont: how is it working?01:38
sabdflbranding aside?01:38
lamontseems OK on the vaio01:39
sabdfldo you have alex's latest kernel, with all our drivers?01:39
lamontalex's latest stuff, our latest stuff01:39
sabdflKamion: do you know if we are blacklisting oss modules where we know we have alsa ones?01:39
sabdfllamont: super01:39
lamonthowever, there may be some morphix/knoppix packages overriding warty packages.01:39
lamontthat's the package sanity that needs to be applied01:39
sabdflok, would you know which ones?01:39
=== lamont-live [~warty@rover3.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont-livemoo even01:40
sabdflshush, lamont-live, this channel covers the indian subcontinent too01:41
sabdflmoo back01:41
jdubregarding the topic of this thread, wait 6 new background images to see01:41
jdubthe new xorg server in hoary ;)01:41
jdub^ heh ;-)01:41
jdublike counting sleeps01:41
lamont-liveof course, with 256 MB of RAM on the box, this is a bit sluggish...01:41
Kamionsabdfl: not to my knowledge (although that's not the same as no)01:41
lamont-livefireing up oo.o01:42
sabdflKamion: oops01:42
sabdfli wonder if that isn't the cause of a lot of the sound problems01:42
Kamionsabdfl: does it cause a problem to have the oss equivalents?01:42
KamionI thought we were supporting both for warty and killing oss for hoary, but I might be out of touch01:42
sabdflKamion: certainly does in some cases, can't say definitively01:42
jdubhaha, dudes in the linuxtoday editorial:01:43
jdub"Did anybody notice the new bootsplash and login screens for Ubuntu Linux that came out in the latest release this week? Apparently, some people thought that the photos of less than fully clothed twenty-somethings were a bit too sexual. having been in theatre, I have seen a lot worse. The word from the Ubuntu folks was that these folks were supposed to represent humanity. That's cool by me. I had a question, though. How did they come up with the money fo01:43
=== lamont configures a printer to print his oo.o document
sabdflKamion: we were using the oss intereface that also provides01:43
sabdflalsa, not also01:43
sabdflmdz: need you to weigh in on something01:43
sabdflanyhow, what do you guys think of me hosting am irc chat to discuss the artwork, to get a broader community view?01:44
jdubKamion: can't really choose to kill oss compat for hoary unless we put in the time to make it work01:44
jdubsabdfl: might just be painful01:44
Kamiondiscover seems to load a few oss modules (not all of them), I'm sure hotplug does too01:45
Kamioncould probably go through discover and change the listings, at least01:45
Kamionfor hotplug a blacklist would be possible01:46
sabdfljdub: i've been asking on #ubuntu, and feedback has actually been quite positive01:46
sabdflmdz: around?01:46
sabdfldiscover.conf allows you to blacklist01:46
sabdfl"skip xxx"01:46
jdubyeah, though not sure people on a massive and busy irc channel are hugely representative ;)01:46
sabdfljdub: got a better suggestion?01:47
sivangi really likr the bootsplash01:47
Kamionsabdfl: yes, but much better to list the right drivers than to blacklist the wrong ones01:47
sabdflslashdot poll? <duck>01:47
sivangnight all01:47
sabdflKamion: listing the right one doesn't stop it from loading the wrong one, afaik01:47
sabdfland if it loads the wrong one first, then the right one is blocked01:47
Kamionuh, discover won't do that01:48
Kamionsomething else might01:48
jdubsabdfl: not off the top of my head, if you're wanting wider response than the mailing list01:48
Kamionalsa-base does the hotplug blacklist, I think01:48
sabdfljdub: i'm trying to get a sense of what the average user thinks, not just the user that vents on a list about it01:48
jdubsabdfl: your best bet, scarily enough, is to go to a shopping centre and ask normal people :-)01:48
Kamionanyway, if discover1-data/pci.lst doesn't list the OSS drivers then discover won't load them, so that's the cleanest solution if mdz's happy with the change at this date01:49
jdubsabdfl: (yeah, irc is less representative than a mailing list)01:49
sabdflhmm... so would the question go something like:01:49
sabdfl"folks are you offended by all of these images you see in advertisements around you"?01:49
Kamionthat sounds like a leading question01:49
jdubi'd ask a few01:49
jdub"Do you like this image?"01:49
sabdflanyhow, we've had our debate, and i'm close to a decision, but i would like to host the discussion in a more interactive form than the mailing list01:50
jdub"Would you like this on a billboard advertisement?"01:50
jdub"Would you like this on your computer?"01:50
jdubthose kinds of things01:50
jdubperhaps go into specific use cases01:51
sabdflsince we clearly can't do that before release, i suggest we focus on the options we do have01:51
jdubheh: "And, more seriously, does anyone at Linspire ever do anything than come up with silly marketing schemes?"01:52
jdubsabdfl: it's saturday morning here ;)01:52
jdub(jesus, i can't believe i'm suggesting a survey and/or focus group)01:52
sabdflok, when would be the best time to host a discussion on irc on this?01:54
sabdflover the w/e, or monday?01:54
sabdfl(my preference is in 12 hours time)01:54
sabdflwe are not trying to get everyone, just a sample01:54
jdubw/e is pretty good01:54
sabdflsat, sunday? 01:55
jdub12 hours means sat night here01:55
jdubmaybe more notice would be good01:55
=== sabdfl wonders whether 9:00am sunday texas time wouldn't be ideal
sabdflwe could do it monday, but that leaves things very tight for the changes we are going to have to make, inevitably01:56
jdubthe changes are not very scary01:57
jdubjust one package01:57
jdubsabdfl: btw, stretched gdm doesn't look too bad. they just look chubby. ;)02:00
jdubsabdfl: oh, the plain and simple backgrounds - do we really want them? they're not really different enough from the default02:03
lamontactually, playing with -20, I think I would like it if more people would grab it and give me feedback.  http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty-live-20041015-20.iso02:16
lamontseems to work fine on my laptop.02:16
lamontmeanwhile, creating the livecd build environment here to do testing.  hope I don't have to run down the street to fetch more bits.02:17
sabdfljdub: can do without the one which has the gradient and nothing else02:17
sabdflthe other one (simple?) is useful because it's monocolour02:17
sabdflor, few colours02:17
jdubmind if i call them 'Chocolate' and 'Chocolate Simple'?02:18
jdubsame issue as calling things 'Ubuntu' and 'Default'02:19
sabdfljdub: not at all, go ahead02:19
sabdfl"chocolate calender"?02:19
jdubcalendar ones are better off with month names02:20
sabdfli was checked into a hotel in jhb the other day02:20
sabdfland the guy was telling me that several of my foundation employees had stayed there02:20
sabdflthen he said "last week we had miss january"02:21
sabdflso i asked him why he couldn't have miss september there for me02:21
sabdflhe looked at me blankly02:21
sabdflthen i remembered i actually have an employee called Miss January02:21
=== Kamion falls over
sabdfli was a little embarrassed02:21
jdubbadness ;)02:21
lamontthom: you around?02:38
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jdubrecommended course of action when an upstream release is made in ... .zip format?02:55
jdublamont, Kamion: ?02:55
lifelessfall over laughing, point finger at upstream02:56
Kamionunzip and repack as .tar.gz02:56
jdub(ok, more out of interest now than necessity)02:56
jdubKamion: ahr02:56
jdubfear ;)02:56
mjg59Beagle is astoundingly lovely gorgeous02:57
mjg59Except for it consuming far too much in the way of resources and being generally slow, but still02:57
=== mjg59 needs to hack up his gnome session to launch it on login
=== jdub is just pulling together simias/ifolder packages
mjg59jdub: You are my bestest friend in the whole world03:02
jdubi've been pimping culchie, too03:04
jdubfriend followed up to a post about it03:04
jdub"is that guy irish, and knows what culchie means?"03:04
jdub(he's fake irish)03:04
=== mjg59 crashes totem without the aid of culchie
lamontKamion: I found what happened with 112303:06
lamontelmo about?03:07
=== lamont starts to become convinced that his ubuntu upload script is uploading to the great bitbucket in the sky.
lamontmdz/jdub: mind if I re-upload the fix to 1123?03:08
lamontand this time I'll babysit it through the entire process until it's IN THE (*^)%$%)&*_^*R^& ARCHIVE03:08
=== mjg59 now has flashing LED during suspend to disk support
jdublamont: did mdz confirm it earlier?03:10
lamontI believe so03:10
jdubif it's approved and just needs upload babying, that should be okay, surely?03:12
lamontwell, it was approved october 503:13
lamontwhich was, like, a different universe03:13
Kamionmjg59: culchie is an excellent name :-)03:14
jdublamont: ok, reconfirmed03:14
lamontthanks. Uploading now03:14
=== Kamion attempts to turn d-i's library handling upside down. oh dear
lamontSuccessfully uploaded packages.03:15
lamontlets see...03:15
Kamionoh my god, it BUILT03:18
Kamionand I have a 13MB compressed initrd03:18
=== Kamion does a little dance
lamontKamion: I'm not sure which scares me more...03:19
Kamionthis is gtk d-i03:19
Kamionchances of it actually working are minimal :-)03:19
=== theantix [~ryan@80.185.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontsource is in the archive.03:35
tseng#ubuntu has now seen it all.03:36
tsengare there still nfs/portmapper bugs?03:39
=== nasdaq4088 [sdfsd@tkp-ip-nas-1-p25.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
KamionIT BOOTS03:43
Kamion(albeit with init=/bin/sh and stepping through things by hand then fixing stuff up before starting d-i)03:43
Kamionit's the ugliest graphical installer in all history ever, but IT BOOTS03:44
lamontKamion: awesome.03:45
mjg59Kamion: That's, uh, sick.03:53
mjg59The idea of a graphical installer like that :)03:54
Kamionnot intended to stay that way, of course03:55
Kamionbut the fact that gtk theme engines are linked against libgtk-x11 means it's an extra layer of pain and suffering to drop a nice theme in03:56
KamionI wonder if they actually use X calls03:56
Kamionmmm, yum, conffiles in d-i03:58
=== Kamion hacks the build system to move *.dpkg-new to *
=== mdz scratches his head at #2434
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionmdz: it's an odd one, isn't it?04:05
Kamionmdz: your answer is the only one I can think of, but he said he didn't have a network04:05
mdzKamion: do we even have CD images old enough to not have that change?04:06
Kamionwell, unless he dug up Sounder $SMALLNUM04:06
Kamion5 or less I think04:07
jdubKamion: oh, fun!04:10
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel []
Kamiondamnit, hate when my mirror decides to update (and desync) in the middle of doing work04:24
mjg59I have the Beagle/GTKFileChooser interaction working.04:30
mjg59This is just stupendously cool.04:30
mjg59jdub: Dude, I have packages04:30
jdubthom was doing some stuff on those too04:31
jdubthom: pingeriner04:31
mjg59jdub: Dude, it's 03:30 here04:31
jduboh yeah04:32
Kamionwoohoo, and now it boots without post-boot hackery04:44
fabbionemorning guys05:32
lamontfabbione: wanna bang on a livecd?05:38
fabbionelamont: why not...05:39
lamontwell, it's certainly not the one we'll ship, for starters.. :-)05:39
lamontartwork is known to be in need of work05:40
lamontbut seems to work for me.05:40
fabbione40min ETA05:41
lamontgnomesword (universe) is ftbfs, btw.05:42
lamontso syncing it from debian didn't really do much. :-(05:42
mdzlamont: yeah, mentioned it to the requesters already05:44
mdzprobably some fast-buildd race, since it built for them05:44
mdzbut even the ones they built didn't work, so it's doubly fucked05:44
lamontusually it's because *.am is patched after *.in in their diff.gz05:45
danielsjamesh: ping05:46
Keybuklamont: flipdiff05:51
lamontwhen does apt say 'E: Broken packages'?05:55
fabbionedaniels: ping05:56
mdzlamont: uninstallable packages05:58
fabbionemdz: did you get the color code patch from daniels?05:58
=== pampa [~santiago@c68.112.163.226.dul.mn.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
danielsfabbione: not yet, just woke up06:04
danielsworking on it now06:04
fabbionethis message from the kernel is scary06:09
fabbionei have never seen it before06:09
vorlonfabbione: "I am your singing telegram"?06:10
fabbionevorlon: no i am waiting the boot to ssh and copy&pastye06:10
fabbioneit doesn't show in dmesg06:11
fabbionean no06:11
fabbionehere it is06:11
fabbionePCI: Address space collision on region 7 of bridge 0000:00:1f.0 [f800:f87f] 06:11
fabbionePCI: Address space collision on region 8 of bridge 0000:00:1f.0 [fa00:fa3f] 06:11
fabbionePCI: Transparent bridge - 0000:00:1e.006:11
fabbionePCI: Cannot allocate resource region 9 of bridge 0000:00:01.006:11
KeybukI like the "Mr Potato Head" ones06:15
lamontfabbione: I get one of those on my machine...06:15
danielsok, I've got it, just need to get the colour right now06:16
daniels(you need to allocate a scratch GC, change the fill style, then draw that into a 1x1 rectangle which you use as a template for a polyfill of the entire root window)06:16
=== Keybuk gets one of these with the Ubuntu kernel
KeybukPCI: Cannot allocate resource region 4 of device 0000:00:02.106:17
daniels(not to mention allocating a colormap first to do the rgb->pixel translation; I forgot that the pixel values were different in X land, they're sort of packed unsigned longs)06:17
KeybukI just assumed it was the PCI stuff feeling needy and wanting someone to notice it06:17
danielss/X land/Xserver land/06:17
lamontOct 14 06:53:39 mix kernel: PCI: Cannot allocate resource region 4 of device 0000:00:02.106:17
lamont0000:00:02.1 SMBus: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] : Unknown device 001606:18
Keybuk0000:00:02.1 SMBus: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] : Unknown device 001606:18
fabbionelamont: i am not too scared about it.06:18
fabbionewindows works as much as all the hardware in linux06:18
fabbionebut sometimes it seems more slow than usual06:18
fabbioneprobably it ware there before too and i did never notice06:18
KeybukOct 16 03:05:09 descent kernel: APIC error on CPU0: 02(40)06:18
Keybuk^ I get a lot of those too06:18
fabbioneKeybuk: you are doomed :P06:21
Keybukdoesn't seem to do or mean anything, I just think it likes chatting06:21
jdubit means "plug in the CPU, silly mans!"06:22
fabbionelamont: it boots fine here06:42
fabbione(the live cd)06:42
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lamontcool.  see anything besides the artwork, please send me email06:44
fabbionei need to kill a user for stupidity first06:46
=== lamont needs to get some sleep, and then fix the artwork and upload an RC. But not before sleep.
lamontanyone who wants something to play with is welcome to play with -20, but understand that the artwork is not done yet06:46
lamontgotta get rid of that morphix grub message. :-)06:46
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=== lamont finishes his check of package collisions, decides that sysvinit was the only one. handy
danielsmdz: ok, I'm not sure this is doable, tbh07:19
danielsmdz: hardcoding the pixel values in works fine (but this is bogus, because that's only realistically going to work on my setup, unless I'm very much mistaken), but it looks like the colormap simply isn't installed when we call MakeRootTile()07:19
danielsmdz: all of my calls to colormap stuff just returns with a black pixel07:19
lamontseb128 around?07:23
danielsfabbione: ^^07:25
lamontcdr drive is unhappy07:34
fabbionemodule-init-tools or kernel is broken07:47
fabbioneif you ban a module07:47
fabbioneit still gets loaded07:47
fabbionelike if you remove the ipv6 aliase07:48
fabbionethe first application that attempts to access ipv6 will trigger the module load07:48
lamontfabbione: as it sits, postfix requires ipv6 :-(07:49
lamontlistens on ::1 and
fabbionelamont: postfix is not the only one at fault07:55
fabbionesee 244307:56
fabbionethe funny thing is that if you trigger the failure once07:56
fabbioneand compare teh 2 ntpdate strace07:56
fabbioneyou can see that at the first time it tries a modprobe07:57
fabbionethe second time it simply say: hey protocol not supported07:57
fabbionehem to trigger the failure you need to do the workaround described there07:57
lamontlikewise, postfix forces ipv408:00
danielsthom: would you be happy with uploading acpi-support to stop/start hal around suspend/resume to fix #1940?08:01
danielsmdz: ^^08:01
fabbionedaniels: i read that stuff08:02
danielsfabbione: 1940?08:03
fabbioneno the color thingy08:03
fabbionecan't we just replace the MakeWhitePix with MakeUbuntuPix?08:03
danielsthing is, 0 is always going to be black, and 1 is always going to be white08:05
danielsbut UbuntuPix won't always be 1479746208:05
daniels(depends on the depth, how it's packed, possibly endianness ...)08:05
danielsand I'm not sure that we have a working colormap installed at MakeRootTile() time08:07
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danielsright, I'm almost certain now that there is no colormap installed for the root window when we come to make the root tile08:32
danielsas in, about one hundred per cent08:33
danielsgah, this is bongtastic.08:46
=== daniels -> mowing lawns
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SuperL4gAre there multiple apt mirrors for Ubuntu, or just one?09:06
Keybukthere are a few09:07
SuperL4gThank you, sir.09:09
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amumoin maedels11:27
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sabdfl /msg jdub how's the artwork looking?12:24
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amu /msg sabdfl g'morning ;)12:44
sabdflhey amu12:44
amutesting live and got around +50 bugs *g* 12:45
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sabdflamu: bugs in the packages or bugs in the way the livecd works?12:48
amukind of both, ex. sound works, playing mp3/streams doesnt, some are from design, like screensaver, he ask my password, but i didnt set one  12:50
sabdflhmm... ubuntu default for screensaver does not ask password, i don't think12:52
sabdflthe livecd should surely be picking up all the ubuntu defaults?12:52
sabdflmp3 support we don't have for patent reasons12:52
amuno idea, I just booted the cd, didnt compared the packagebase, well i can't 12:53
amu-> lock screen ... black xscreensaver 4.16 comes, with login warty, i press enter, nothing happen, typ foo nothing ... reboot  12:56
amuI write everything together and send it to lamont ?  12:58
sabdflamu: yes please12:58
sabdflamu: is it possible to apt-get update a livecd while it's running, to see how the packages would change?12:59
amudo not frighten, I fight with nearly the same problems, everything could be fixed, but it's time-intensively ...01:04
amujust rebooted ( screensaver ) 01:04
nasdaq4088when is ubuntu released?-i can't wait anymore01:14
amusorry, again a restart, gnome-pannel crashed01:16
maskienasdaq4088, around the 20th oct -- 01:17
nasdaq4088ok thank you maskie01:21
amusabdfl: hmm my network doesnt work ;) could be a problem of my virtual-pc, i tried on other testmaschins, upgrading should be no problem .. unfortunately liveCD has problems with my desktop ( s-ata & raid ) takes 30min. to boot 01:26
sabdflamu: i'll try it here01:27
sabdflwhich is the download url?01:27
amu http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty-live-20041015-20.iso01:28
amupostfix could be also a problem, if booted it, replace postfix with another one01:31
amugot it finally, apt-get update gives a error: warty/main Packages I got, E: Method http has died unexpectedly! 01:53
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tuo2sabdfl: nice nick02:13
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Kamionfabbione: followed up to #2429 for you03:45
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carlosmdz: could be closed http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=267731 ?04:09
carlos(I know it's offtopic, sorry)04:09
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dokogood afternoon04:10
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carlosseb128: hey04:47
seb128hello carlos 04:52
amuhi lamont 05:01
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lamontmorning amu05:26
lamontreading your mail before I get dragged out the door to take my daughter to town05:26
=== lamont tries to figure out why the CD he built at home doesn't bring up the network on the same machine that -20 does.
lamontamu: did resolv.conf just have the two components in the search list domain, or did it have a leading 'warthogs'?05:33
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lamontamu: after I run make in SuSE, what all files do I need to toss over?  Looks like message and install/help.*05:44
lamont /bin/sh: line 1: help2txt: command not found05:46
lamontmust run.  bbiab05:46
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mdzlamont: ping?06:29
mdzlamont: is there anything newer than alex's wartylive-v7?06:29
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sabdflmdz: looks to me as though alex used the latest versions of the modules07:16
sabdflipw.056 etc07:16
sabdflwe are running 0.53... 07:17
sabdflthe two versions use different firmware versions07:17
sabdflhence the glitch i referred to by email07:17
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lamontmdz: people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty-live-20041015-20.iso is my latest, which still needs a bit of work.08:06
lamontI don't think alex has uploaded anything newer than what went into rcc308:06
lamontwhere does help2txt come from, I wonder??08:08
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=== lamont would like to know why CD burning tends to leave one with cdrecord uninterruptably-blocked on 'mempoo' in the kernel for an apparent eternity.
lamontI hate rebooting10:46
sivanglamont : yeah. it sucks10:57
lamontsivang: especially just to ulock a frigging drive10:57
lamontI mean, reboot is one way to terminate a process with extreme prejudice, but, really.10:58
sivanglamont : couldn't you kill the insulting proccess ?10:58
lamont uninterruptably-blocked on 'mempoo' in the kernel10:58
lamontas soon as it unblocks, it'll get all the signals I've sent it.10:58
sivanglamont : hmm, I guess I should have deduced from that that it's ignoring singlas or something..:)10:58
lamontps -lfp xxx, column 2 == 'D' is bad.10:59
lamontin that it indicates waiting at uninterruptable priority.  You shouldn't really see those ever11:00
sivanglamont : I thank you for another important thing explaind.11:00
lamontsivang: the kernel is a fun place to code.  Really. :-)11:01
=== lamont used to write i/o drivers for a couple of non-linux OS's in a previous life.
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lamont_liveseb128, you around?11:21
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seb128lamont: yes11:49
lamontany clues why gnome would go bugnutso on me?11:50
lamont"detected another panel running, exiting"11:50
lamontabout 20 times, and then no panel11:50
seb128killall gnome-panel11:52
seb128but what have you done to get this situation ?11:52
lamontwith about 16 million windows open.11:52
lamontor maybe only 75.. :0)11:53
lamontI solved it by moving .gnome and .gnome2 out of the way.11:53
seb128do you still have the faulty dirs ? 11:53
seb128could be useful to make some tests to find what went wrong11:54
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MithrandirKamion: 1659; you happy with me reassigning to you?11:55
ddaaasw, so you are interested in gnu-arch and texmacs?11:57

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