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lobo_nzsabdfl: It works fine on my home pc but on my work one It hung on first install then I made another user and gnome started slowly, now I can log into gnome as the first use made during install but I get this error 'Cannot save launcher to disk - Details: Error writing file 'file:///home/lobo/.gnome2/panel2.d/default/launchers/curly-...':Access denied'  I also get the same error for moe and hammer12:03
lobo_nzsabdfl: I dont get those errors on the new users I made since install12:04
sabdflmoe and hammer?12:04
ogralobo_nz: how did you create them ? 12:04
lobo_nzthe file at the end of the errors are all curl-kafoahdaldg then moe-jsdsdgsdg etc12:04
lobo_nzIogra: I installed ubuntu on my work pc and logged into gnome12:05
tsenglo jdub 12:06
thursdayTEAM AMERICA?12:07
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swimcould anyone tell me what the xf86 config file is called?12:08
ogralobo_nz: the files are launchers, the funny names are actually correct filenames 12:08
azeemswim: /etc/X11/XF86Config-412:09
ograpretty silent here regarding the mailing list12:09
azeemswim: but you should avoid to edit it manually12:09
azeemif possible12:09
lobo_nzogra: yes I know, I checked the perms on those files to see if there was a problem but the pers are the same as on my other pc which has had no trouble at all12:09
swimazeem nah Ive edited it manny many times12:09
ogralobo_nz: how did you acrually create the users ? with the users-admin tool from gnome ?12:10
lobo_nzogra: no I couldn't log into gnome so I ssh'd in from another pc and used sudo useradd -m lobo212:11
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lobo_nzogra: if I reboot I can no longer log in as the 1st user untill I log in as another user then log out and log in as the first user which is when I get the 3 errors wrinting to those files12:13
andredHmm, when I updated to the latest HAL in Ubuntu, Nautilus windows were automatically opened during the installation. The open windows corresponded to my filesystem entries in /etc/fstab.12:13
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WW_I am looking at a web page that has samples of speech, and they are in .rm format.  Is .rm just for sound, or does it also have video?12:16
WW_andred: That's a known bug.12:17
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ogralobo_nz: odd... did the prob come up on a default install ? or did you tweak anything before ?12:18
lobo_nzogra: First I did an update from an old iso (before the RC) during the install and got the problem, I then downloaded the RC iso and got the same problem - both times during my first login to gnome12:19
swim Im dieng to find a wireless mouse with a little reciever, that is NOT mini, is normal to large mouse size...12:19
lobo_nzogra: I would normally think it was a hardware problem but everything else works fine, X windows works, once I have a terminal I can copy files around etc, the install all went smoothly aswell so I am a bit confused on where to look to figure out whats wrong12:22
swimI would even be grateful for a corded regular sized mouse that had a retractable cord12:23
solsTiCewhat is the difference between mulitverse and universe ? are they different repository ? for diffrent release? 12:23
WW_solsTiCe: I think multiverse is non-free stuff.12:24
lobo_nzsolsTiCe: multiverse is also not supported via security updates12:25
solsTiCeWW_: i see universe metionned in sources.list and multiverse somewhere on the wiki12:25
WW_Sorry for repeating myself: Is .rm a sound format, or sound and video?12:25
WW_(.rm is RealMedia, right?)12:26
TerminXsound and video12:26
TerminX.ra is the audio one12:26
ogralobo_nz: the permissions in .gnome2 could be a starting point12:27
TerminXor maybe .ra is just an .rm without video named differently12:27
TerminXwho cares, real sucks12:27
WW_I'm trying to listen to samples of speech (in Czech) on a web page, and the format of the samples is .rm12:27
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TerminXwell, nobody said .rm absolutely had to have video though12:28
WW_When I click on when, a window pops up to ask if I want to save the file or open it with totem.12:28
TerminXI think mplayer plays real12:28
WW_I was wondering if I could set up Firefox to just play it automatically.12:28
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WW_..and without the video part.12:28
TerminXyou want it to automatically play only the audio part?12:29
lobo_nzogra: The permissions in gnome2 are identical to my other pc with ubuntu on which has no problems, I even tried chmodding to 777 but still got the error12:29
WW_TerminX:  Well, just playing it automatically would be fine.  The default player is totem, and it pops up a silly graphics thing while playing the sound. 12:30
WW_TerminX: I could do without that graphics stuff.12:30
WW_But those are details.  I guess my basic question is: How to I set up firefox to automatically open certain file extensions with a given application automatically?12:31
TerminXer, isn't there a check box for that right on the download window or something12:32
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WW_TerminX: But I don't want it to pop up a download window.12:33
TerminXno, I mean a checkbox to set it to do something by default12:33
WW_TerminX: I can't find anything relevant in Edit->Preferences.12:34
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ogralobo_nz: try moving the dir to .gnome2.bak and try a login12:35
WW_TerminX: and Tools->Extensions brings up an empty window.12:35
TerminXWW_: um.. when you click a file, and it asks to download, there is an "open with" ratio button, and then a huge checkbox below it that says "do this automatically for files like this from now on"12:35
TerminXare you blind?12:35
lobo_nzogra: I just tried that right now and am looking a a brown screen waiting for the naked people12:36
WW_TerminX: Yes, I am blind. Why do you ask?12:36
WW_TerminX: :-)  Thanks.12:37
ogralobo_nz: probably moving only .gnome2 is not enough...12:37
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LinuxJonesevening everybody !!12:40
lobo_nzogra: I think I will delete the user and use one of the other I made for a while and see if I have any trouble, I added another user to the sudoers so hopefully will have admin privs12:40
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ogralobo_nz: don't forget  the groups ;)12:41
lobo_nzogra: Yes did those too just about forgot tho12:43
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holgerHi, is there a nice way to install mplayer. I didn't found a working instruction while googeling.12:44
ograholger: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats12:44
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socommholger: http://samesoft.sf.net/juan12:45
socommholger: I wrote that tutorial, regretably it isn't my best work.12:46
ograholger: follow the instructions in the last block, then you can install it with synaptic12:47
socommholger: though it should get you where you wanna go ;)12:47
Ngsocomm: adding mplayer into the list in the "legally questionable packages" section might be a big help12:47
NgI'd offer to do it, but the page is immutable ;)12:48
Ngoops, my bad, I wasn't logged in12:50
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holgerorga: i did this before, but got dependencies for 3 packages that shouldn't be installed12:55
socommNg: where you refering to synaptic?12:55
Ngsocomm: on that RestrictedFormats page, at the bottom it lists some of the stuff you can get from marillat's repository, but it doesn't mention mplayer. people searching for getting mplayer to work could find that and get it straight away12:55
SmokingFirewhen my sound stalls when doing a lot things. Who's fault is it?12:55
socommNg: Oh, okay.12:55
holgerogra: libartsc0, libggi2, libungif4g 12:55
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, how much ram do you have ?12:55
Ngsocomm: depends if you want to encourage people to use mplayer I spose ;)12:55
socommSmokingFire: it's your fault. Repent and say 100 hail maries.12:55
SmokingFireLinuxJones: 512MB, AMD 2500 XP +12:55
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, yikes taht's a good machine. Check "top" to see what is taking up all of your system resources.12:57
socommNg: guess it wouldn't be too smart for the Ubuntu folks to encourage that.12:57
SmokingFireJust wondering, as I have used Beos (however not under the same load) if this is an issue that can be solved by better multithreading.12:57
SmokingFireLinuxJones: whats "top"?12:57
Ngsocomm: that's for them to decide I guess. The list does include the w32codecs and dvd stuff, which is just as sketchy as mplayer ;)12:58
socommSmokingFire: top is a command.12:58
NgSmokingFire: what soundcard do you have?12:58
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, it shows you the processes running on your machine and has their memory usage ...etc12:58
SmokingFireNg: I have a soundblaster live! value12:58
Ngany machine will starve the soundcard if you push it hard enough, but cheap crappy soundcards do it way earlier12:58
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socommtop (1)              - display Linux tasks12:58
NgSmokingFire: oh, that really ought to work fine up until the machine is almost dying with load :/12:58
socommSmokingFire: you can alway issue the command 'whatis program' at the command line to get a short description of the program you've chose.12:58
SmokingFireLinuxJones: To be honest I was doing a apt-get install dist-upgrade, but still I want my multimedia and screen refreshes to be normal.12:58
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, even still your system should handle that easliy. Are you running many services on your system ?12:59
ograholger: whats wrong with these libs ?01:00
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idle0newill ubuntu run slow or fast with 128mb ram, i am running mdk 10.1 now and it's ol01:00
SmokingFireLinuxJones: not that I know. well have some applications loaded but most are inactive when not used.01:00
socommidle0ne: what's the g/mHz is your processor.01:01
idle0ne1.4ghz P4 01:01
idle0nethis is a temporary system01:01
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, there are a few ways to look @ the services running on your machine try lsof -i01:01
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SmokingFireLinuxJones: from the command top: I have 80 tasks running 79 are in sleep mode.01:02
idle0neordering a new one within 2 weeks but this will be my *nix server when i get the new one and i will be running linux on the new one as well01:02
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socommidle0ne: should run pretty fast. I'm running Ubuntu on a 633 celeri and it's pretty snappie.01:02
idle0nesocomm: have you used mandrake before?01:02
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, you may have some unnecesary services running try lsof -i or netstat -tap01:02
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SmokingFireLinuxJones: lsof -i gives me: two instances of gnome-cup, one of rhytmnbox and three for gaim (correct three irc servers_01:03
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, that's not bad what does netstat -tap output ?01:04
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SmokingFireLinuxJones: wait doing a sudo lsof - i gives me some more: I got famd, two times master, three times ntpd,  cupsd three times, portmap 2 times, gnome-cup 2 times, rhythembox, and three for gaim. 01:07
lrnhow can  i check my gtk version ?01:07
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, heh sorry I just assumed you were in an administrative shell ;D01:07
SmokingFireok, I try not to be01:08
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idle0nehmm i dont see any installs for i586, will i386 work for me? i never understood the differences01:08
lrn2.4.0 is the newest gtk version ?01:08
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, I don't do any services like printing from this computer much, so I usually just stop all of those services and start them as I need them.01:09
socommlrn: I think so.01:09
SmokingFireLinuxJones: don't you think this an issue of a process (although wanted) taking over the whole machine on a desktop machine? I mean on a server/workstation I would understand but desktop is multitasking unless specifically specified.01:09
SmokingFireLinuxJones: How do you stop the printing services and also keep them down on a reboot?01:09
socomm2.4.13 is the newest.01:10
lrnsocomm how can i update it for my ubuntu ?01:10
socomm/etc/init.d/cupsys stop01:10
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, something is gobbling up your resources, I have a simialr machine and have no problems compiling a kernel, webbrowsing etc.. while listening to music.01:11
socommlrn: use synaptic, or from the command line run `apt-get upgrade'01:11
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, /etc/init.d/cupsys stop  then update-rc.d -f cupsys remove01:11
socommlrn: though ubuntu most likely has not upgraded to gtk 2.4.13 yet.01:12
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SmokingFireLinuxJones: remove doesn't uninstall?01:12
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, it jsut removes the symlinks from your runlevels so that it will not start again @ next boot01:13
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SmokingFireLinuxJones: thanks01:16
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, np ;)01:16
SmokingFireLinuxJones: what kind of system do you use01:16
lrnhow can i make my oidentd r01:16
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lrnhow can i make my oidentd runs automaticly when the system gets start ?01:17
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, Athlon 2200 with 512 MB ram SB Live Value and GF2 (32 MB) MX video card01:17
SmokingFireDo linux daeomons have an option like on Win NT for starting a service manually?01:17
lrnservice proc start|restart|stop01:17
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, or you can start them by doing /etc/init.d/<ServiceScriptName> start01:18
SmokingFireLinuxJones: like mine but I have barton 2500, same ram and sound but gf4 mx 64MB. Weird that your system doesn't stall on high loads.01:18
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, what kernel are you running ?01:18
SmokingFirelrn LinuxJones: I want them to start when an application needs them.01:19
NgSmokingFire: cat /proc/interrupts    is the sound card sharing an IRQ with something? wondering if it's getting starved by the bus or something01:19
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, you can use inetd to do that.01:19
SmokingFireLinuxJones: linux 2.6.something-k701:19
NgSmokingFire: (the soundcard will be EMU10K1)01:20
SmokingFireNg: 201:   10186183   IO-APIC-level  EMU10K1, nvidia01:20
Ngthat's not horrifically bad and wouldn't explain high load breaking it :/01:21
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, inetd will listen for service requests and start the requested service when needed by an application (like cups for printing as an example).01:21
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SmokingFireNg: if I would move the soundcard to another pci slot would that change the IRQ?01:21
SmokingFireLinuxJones: this happens automagically or has the application have to be programming for this?01:22
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NgSmokingFire: probably, but I doubt it's that. if it had been an IDE controller sharing the IRQ or something then maybe, but high system load isn't going to make the graphics card get super busy01:22
Ngand sharing IRQs seems to work pretty well these days anyway, so it shouldn't be that at all ;)01:23
compdudewhen is the next version coming out? approximately if you have to..01:23
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, you can get the irq changed by updating the escd (or ecsd) in your system bios.01:23
Ngbut it shouldn't be skipping either01:23
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Ngwonder if not having hard disk DMA could do it, have you checked that? (I haven't been following closely)01:24
SmokingFireI do admit it was compiling the latest upgrades for ubuntu, so I'm not disappointed at it, you know.01:24
LinuxJonesNg, good call :D01:24
SmokingFireNg: no DMA? But my HD has 8mb cache it would be badly used then?01:25
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NgSmokingFire: DMA is a way of accessing things that doesn't involve the CPU. If it's not enabled disk access uses lots of CPU time, especially something like compiling/upgrading. hdparm -v /dev/hda   (hda or whatever your boot drive is) will tell you if you are using dma01:26
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socommDMA == Direct Memory Access, nyet?01:27
SmokingFire multcount    =  0 (off)01:27
SmokingFire IO_support   =  0 (default 16-bit)01:27
SmokingFire unmaskirq    =  0 (off)01:27
SmokingFire using_dma    =  0 (off)01:27
SmokingFire keepsettings =  0 (off)01:27
SmokingFire readonly     =  0 (off)01:27
SmokingFire readahead    = 256 (on)01:27
SmokingFire geometry     = 65535/16/63, sectors = 160086528, start = 001:27
NgSmokingFire: bingo, that's a very likely candidate, it's set to off01:28
Ngsocomm: yeah01:28
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, now do a test hdparm -Tt /dev/hda01:28
SmokingFireNg: weird its off by default, though ubuntu put it on by default.01:28
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, you will see a HUGE difference01:28
compdudeso. um. maybe i didn't get this. I have to wait to april 2005 to download a new release?01:28
NgSmokingFire: hdparm -d1c1 /dev/hda   will enable dma and 32bit access. then do the -Tt again, then load your system up again.01:28
NgSmokingFire: I dunno, I would have thought it would01:28
RandomizeCompdude:  The "official" releases will be slated for every 6 months.  That doesn't necessarily mean there won't be incremental updates / releases between.01:29
ogracompdude: after next wednesday, yes01:29
Ngthere are other options that will help even more, but I'm not going to advise messing with hdparm too much at this time of night ;)01:29
SmokingFirewith dma and 32 bit off:/dev/hda:01:29
SmokingFire Timing buffer-cache reads:   1636 MB in  2.00 seconds = 817.31 MB/sec01:29
SmokingFire Timing buffered disk reads:   10 MB in  3.23 seconds =   3.10 MB/sec01:29
Ngis your machine doing anything else at the moment?01:29
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, no wonder your comp is choking while dist-upgrading :P01:30
compdudeafter next wednesday a new release?01:30
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SmokingFirewith dma and 32 bit on: Timing buffer-cache reads:   1504 MB in  2.00 seconds = 750.99 MB/sec01:30
SmokingFire Timing buffered disk reads:  152 MB in  3.02 seconds =  50.37 MB/sec01:30
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SmokingFiremuch better :)01:30
ogracompdude: next Wed. is warty releas day :) then again in april....inbetween probably one or the other pointrelease to fix certain things01:31
Ngthat is a lot better01:31
RandomizeCompudude:  The projected release date for Warty is October 20th, yes.01:31
NgSmokingFire: that won't stay over a reboot though01:31
NgSmokingFire: you can edit /etc/hdparm.conf to make it set the dma/32bit stuff every time you boot01:31
Kamioncompdude: we'll open up hoary shortly after warty releases, and it'll be public throughout its development cycle01:32
SmokingFireNg: I know, I saved the commands for the next fresh install I may do.01:32
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, what kind of hard drive do you have ?01:32
SmokingFireNg: Ok will do.01:32
SmokingFireNg: maxtor 80gb U133 8mb cache01:32
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, that should be submitted to bugzilla.01:33
compdudeok :) then i'll wait for next release and then install :)01:33
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Ngyeah, that really should be detected01:33
LinuxJonesNg, this isn't 1999 :D01:33
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NgSmokingFire: there are some hdparm tutorials that google can help you find too, if you want to check out some of the other options.01:34
SmokingFireNg: everything in my hdparm is off 01:34
stevedeoDamn. The new ubuntu artwork is awesome :)01:34
socommstevedeo: you're about a day late.01:35
NgSmokingFire: if you run the hdparm -v again you should see the dma and 32bit ones are on01:35
SmokingFireNg, LinuxJones: Well I didn't do an real clean install, I kept my /home partition, could this influence it?01:35
stevedeosocomm: Yeah... behind the times.01:35
Ngnot hdparm, no01:35
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, no01:35
ograSteveA: did you read about the concept ? you'll recieve a new one every month :)01:35
ograSteveA: sorry, autocompletion missed01:36
socommNg: I get HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted.01:36
socommogra: what do I have to install to get this artwork?01:36
lrnI installed ET Enemy ternoti at my pc,and i want to remove how i do that?01:36
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Ngsocomm: that seems to happen sometimes, I'm not sure why. google might01:37
socommNg: all right.01:37
stevedeoogra: No, I haven't read it yet, but I judged that by the names "October Wallpaper". I'll have to read up :)01:37
ograsocomm: ubuntu-artwork and select the calendar image for background01:37
jedix__does the amd64 port use the debian pure64 port?01:37
socommogra: thanks.01:37
lrnI installed ET Enemy ternoti at my pc,and i want to remove how i do that?01:37
Ngjedix__: it runs a 64bit kernel and system, if that's what that means?01:38
jedix__Ng, nope01:38
socommogra: would one need to use synaptic for this?01:38
Ngjedix__: what's pure64 then? :)01:38
jedix__Ng, does it have lib and lib6401:38
SmokingFireNg, LinuxJones: Another thing to complicate is that at this moment and during the installation; I had a faulty hard drive attached as slave (hardware faulty), from which I'm trying to salvage data. When closing ubuntu the screen (console (or whats its called)) prints out error messages (IO based) maybe this why the installer go confused and didn't reconize my correct and working HD.01:38
LinuxJoneslrn, where did you install it to ?01:38
lrnfrom a .run script01:38
jedix__Ng, debian has this pure64 port that does not include the 32bit libs.. thus making things not work01:38
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Ngjedix__: no, /lib and there's a package to provide some /lib32 stuuf01:39
jedix__it symlinks lib to lib6401:39
jedix__damn, I was about to install fc2.. now it looks like I wasted four cds.01:39
ograsocomm: could be helpfull ;) but you can also use apt or aptitude on the commandline if you prefer01:39
NgSmokingFire: possibly, that could have forced it to disable dma - that tends to be the first port of call when IDE disks go wonky ;)01:39
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Ngjedix__: fc2 has /lib and /lib64 - its 32bit support is pretty good01:40
socommogra: hmm all right.01:40
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jedix__Ng, yeah, I know.. but I don't wanna run fc01:40
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socommogra: thanks.01:40
SmokingFireNg: I know that knoppix (livecd) will not even boot in this configuration. Although it will when the faulty drive is the master on the ide bus.01:41
ograsocomm: youre welcome ;)01:41
jedix__Ng, can ubuntu 64 run doom3?01:41
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, I am not sure how the installer would react to a faulty hard disk like that. I would not hurt to file a submission to bugzilla and let the folks know about it anyway. 01:41
NgSmokingFire: can youput the faulty drive on its own seperate bus?01:41
Ngjedix__: to be honest I'm not sure, I haven't had it installed long enough to install a game ;)01:41
Ngplus I don't have doom301:41
LinuxJonesHappy Beer Day !!!!01:41
jedix__Ng, demo is out :)01:42
NgI don't want to pimp fc2 too much, but the doom3 demo worked fine first time ;)01:42
SmokingFireNg: this motherboard only has one fast bus (ultra 66 and higher) and another for CDROM.01:42
Ngooh, I still have the demo installer01:42
NgI'll try it now01:42
jedix__on ubuntu?01:42
jedix__thanks man.01:42
SmokingFireNg: lets say I put the faulty dirve on the cdrom ide channel (removing the cdrom) what do I do from there?01:43
NgSmokingFire: if anything on the drive gets mounted automatically, change the device name for it in /etc/fstab, then set the hdparm config and that's it. Or did you mean something else?01:44
Ngjedix__: well, that didn't work so well ;)01:44
SmokingFireat this moment no foreign disks are mounted in fstab01:45
jedix__Ng, what happened?01:45
SmokingFireNg: Just want to know what you want to see what should happen.01:45
Ngjedix__: the installer decided I was using glibc-2.0 and failed to find a binary for it01:45
NgSmokingFire: well, it won't interfere with your main drive, for one thing01:45
Ngif there are errors on the bus the driver will probably turn the dma stuff back off01:45
Ngso your machine will start to suck again ;)01:46
SmokingFireNg: its no problem as soon as I have salvaged the data, I will reformat - install with only good drives.01:46
NgSmokingFire: ah, fair enough then :)01:46
SmokingFireNg: drive is trash anyway, but only made backups of documents not of downloaded stuff.01:46
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NgSmokingFire: hehe01:47
SmokingFireNg: still a lot of downloaded stuff on that drive. Not very important but important in a way its gigs of data I don't want to download again.01:47
Ngdoh, worth a bit of salvaging then01:48
SmokingFireyup, only tool that I found thats able to do it costs $3500 :(01:49
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, I would spend the time downloading :P01:49
SmokingFireyeah, should be a gpl salvage disk program.01:49
Ngthere are some tools for doing really low level IDE stuff on linux01:49
Ngsomething about TASKFILE, but I don't really know what ;)01:50
SmokingFirebtw: I tried the demo of that tool and it works.01:50
SmokingFireanyway thanks for the help01:51
SmokingFireWhat files do I need to save when doing a clean install? I will keep my home so thats no problem.01:52
SmokingFireyou know what configuration files, i know fstab and sources.list anyother? Don't need network settings as I'm using a router.01:53
Ngonly config files you've changed really, outside /home01:53
SmokingFirewhat about var/apt/cache (or where ever it is at)01:54
SmokingFireif I would just copy the cache of apt and then on a new install copy it back. Would apt get confused?01:54
NgI would think apt would be fine with that01:54
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, do you have high speed connection to internet ?01:55
SmokingFireLinuxJones: yes dsl 756k01:55
Ng(it's /var/cache/apt/archives you want to snag)01:55
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, it's faster to just re-download them again as opposed to backing them up 01:55
SmokingFireLinuxJones: but I just want a quick install 01:55
SmokingFireLinuxJones: hd space is no problem btw01:56
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mirak_hi guys01:56
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, 756 yikes01:56
mirak_can anyone help me with a few probs i am having?????01:56
SmokingFireLinuxJones: good or bad?01:56
mirak_2 (prob real simple to you guys)01:57
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, you donwload about 80 kB/sec ?01:57
mirak_i need to paly mp3's01:57
SmokingFireLinuxJones: real downloads are at about 220 kilobytes per seconds01:57
mirak_and i need flash plugin for firefox01:57
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, oh that's fine just wipe it and re-download.01:58
RandomizeMmm, if you're getting 220KB/s out of a 768K DSL line, I think you have more than a 768K DSL line. :)01:58
RandomizeEither that or they are doing something funky to accelerate your connection.01:58
mirak_either way........its good01:58
crimsunmirak_: uncomment universe in /etc/apt/sources.list, then apt-get update, then apt-get install gstreamer-mad01:58
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crimsunmirak_: or use synaptic to do that01:58
jdubgstreamer0.8-mad, rather01:58
mirak_crimsun: im a noob......go slow01:58
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, I have a 5 Mbit connect and can hit 600 kBytes/sec01:58
crimsunoops, sorry01:58
SmokingFireRandomize: well my isp changes it all the time. Competition I guess. When I started (3 years ago) it was 70 kb now its 220kb.01:58
crimsunyes, gstreamer0.8-mad01:59
mirak_and i dont know where syantik is in ubuntu01:59
RandomizeI like free speed upgrades.  Competition = good. :)01:59
SmokingFireyup, it was free01:59
mirak_where is synaptic????02:00
crimsunmirak_: are you currently in X-Windows?02:01
SmokingFirebut the low budget broadband starts to be attractive, however they implement a download limit on the low budget version. However on the basic version there is only fair use, this means download a lot this month or quarter but next time please download less.02:01
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Kamion("X Window System" or just "X", BTW)02:01
mirak_yeah.......if that is gnome02:01
Kamionthere's a rant somewhere in the X documentation about "X-Windows" :)02:01
crimsunKamion: thanks02:01
crimsunmirak_: Computer->System Configuration->Synaptic..02:02
rexiboyis ubuntu moving to xorg?02:02
mirak_ahh.thnx guys02:02
Kamionrexiboy: post-warty, yes02:02
Kamionrexiboy: it turned out not to be ready enough for warty02:02
SmokingFireNg, LinuxJones: you still want me to enter a entry in bugzilla for my faulty drive?02:02
mirak_just so you guys know.im about 30 mins into this ubuntu install, my first distro was yoper02:03
ograKamion: how far post warty ? 02:03
rexiboywhat about hardware detection?02:03
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, It's a good Idea yeah02:03
Kamionogra: hoary, dunno beyond that02:03
Kamionrexiboy: what about it? :)02:03
Ngmention that you had a faulty drive on the chain02:03
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LinuxJonesSmokingFire, make mention of the faulty drive and what IDE channel it was connected to ?02:03
ograKamion: i mean, when can i get the first unstable debs ?02:04
rexiboywhy is the live cd works great on my athlon64 and nvidia6800 but the 64 install have problems with my card?02:04
spaaz9Hi all.  I'm having a problem with totem.  I have sound, but no video.  I have an eVGA nVidia Riva TNT2 32MB PCI card.  Anyone have any ideas?02:04
SmokingFireNg, LinuxJones: ok. Of head I think its IDE 1 (or 0 the first one anyway).02:04
rexiboyisn't detection the same?02:04
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Kamionogra: I don't know02:05
mirak_gstramer0.8-mad isnt in synaptek02:05
SmokingFirerexiboy: what problems do you have02:05
rexiboyafter install can't startx02:05
Kamionrexiboy: no, rather different, the live CD has a different heritage from the installer02:05
SmokingFiremirak_: you need to enable the universe option in synaptic02:05
mirak_how to do that????02:05
Kamionrexiboy: please file a bug with details if the install CD isn't doing what you want02:05
ogramirak_: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/SynapticHowto02:05
mirak_<======total noob02:05
SmokingFiremirak_: in synaptic click on setting-->repositories and enable the fifth and sixed entry.02:06
rexiboyKamion, I did but to no availe... it does not detect the card, no device found02:06
mirak_thnx.......i can follow the how to02:06
spaaz9rexiboy what kind of card?02:06
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rexiboyspaaz9, nvidia 680002:06
spaaz9do you get a bash prompt?02:07
rexiboyyes i do02:07
mirak_should i leave the 4th entry unchecked?????02:07
SmokingFiremirak_: let me see02:07
mirak_thnx ever so much02:07
spaaz9what does your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file say for your video card?02:07
spaaz9Is it using the nv or nvidia driver?02:08
SmokingFireok seems my panel crashed or something02:08
mirak_im sorry02:08
SmokingFiremirak_: whats its there 02:08
SmokingFirewait its there02:08
rexiboytried to reconfigure x and writing the changes to the default file but when i open .conf-4 the changes are not reflected02:08
rexiboyit's using nv02:09
mirak_what is the thing im installing do????02:09
SmokingFiremirak_: sorry its nr 4 and 5 not 5 and 602:09
socommrexiboy: do you have an nvidia entry under /dev?02:09
SmokingFireso enable 4th and 5th option in the config02:09
mirak_6 was already checked02:09
mirak_so enable them all???02:09
rexiboysocomm, i need to check i'm in yoper atm02:09
SmokingFiremirak_: thats good as it for security updates02:09
SmokingFiremirak_: there is no problem with enabling them all.02:10
mirak_ok...i just did02:10
socommrexiboy: you can edit your XF86config-4, and edit nv to nvidia then startx.02:10
spaaz9rexiboy do this: sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx  then sudo nvidia-glx config enable then if it doesn't do it automatically, change your driver to read nvidia02:10
mirak_im just playing.so if i screw anything up, ill just start over02:10
mirak_not concerned about breaking stuff02:10
SmokingFirenow click on ok and and click on reload (this will take time).02:10
mirak_i did already02:10
mirak_im a noob.but not that bad02:11
SmokingFiremirak_: also reload?02:11
SmokingFireok :)02:11
mirak_but what does the thing i installing do???02:11
mirak_mp3 or flash?02:11
SmokingFireno, thanks as I learned from other people in this channel. 02:11
rexiboyspaaz9, doing apt-get it can't find the package02:12
mirak_thnx thanks channel02:12
spaaz9rexiboy it can't find nvidia-glx ?02:12
SmokingFiremirak_: when its done look for mad and then install gstreamer08-mad02:12
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mirak_im working on it02:13
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mirak_"g" is a long way down the list02:13
rexiboyI even uncommented the security and ...02:13
RandomizeThere is a search function, Mirak.02:13
SmokingFiremirak_: if it doesn;t work then log off and on.02:13
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RandomizeThought we were dealing with Synaptic.02:13
SmokingFireRandomize: we are02:13
RandomizeI'm blending my conversations, thought you had him in apt-get now. :)02:14
mirak_yeah...we are02:14
RandomizeYes, then the search button is your friend. :)02:14
mirak_well.i can handle both02:14
spaaz9rexiboy hmmmm....02:14
SmokingFiremirak_: after installing log off an on, if it doesn't work.02:14
mirak_just couldnt remember exact name of the file02:14
spaaz9try just changing nv to nvidia and see what happens02:14
rexiboyno nvidia under /dev02:14
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Ngrexiboy: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BinaryDriverHowto?action=highlight&value=nvidia02:14
rexiboywhere can i post my conf-4?02:14
rublindCan someone help me with a problem I'm having?02:15
mirak_is ubuntu a good distro for me to be laerning on????????02:15
spaaz9e-mail it to stevead@lycoris.com02:15
crimsunmirak_: sure.02:15
SmokingFiremirak_: just do a search for mad and gstreamer-8-mad should be the third entry.02:15
Ngrublind: ask and find out :)02:15
mirak_its installing already02:15
rublindWell, I downloaded an ubuntu iso last night (from the UK mirror, I think)02:15
mirak_hmm....its done02:15
rublindAnd today when I tried to install it, I get errors02:15
mirak_try and reburn the iso at a slower speed??02:16
SmokingFiremirak_: remember you must have the 08 version02:16
Ngwhat kind of errors?02:16
rublindThat files are missing, or not able to be accessed, and when I did a disk check (I think it checks the md5sums), it failed02:16
mirak_i did get the 08 version02:16
Ngrublind: try burning it again then, if it still fails, download it again02:16
rublindI did burn it again.02:16
rexiboyNg, thanks did that and will give it another go02:16
Ngrexiboy: np02:16
mirak_smokingfire: why is your name yellow sometimes???02:16
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rublindNg, do you know when they are going to be shipping the cd's?02:17
mirak_after the final release02:17
Ngrublind: ah. the first time I downloaded the image, it died after about 300mb instead of 500, check you have the right size02:17
Ngrublind: nope02:17
rublindWhat's the right size?02:17
mirak_rublind: cd are shipped after the final release, i think the 18th02:17
SmokingFiremirak_: depends on your settings of IRC but when I type your irc name your irc clients alerts you with sounds or colors that someone is talking about you.02:17
rublindIs there a maximum of how many free cd's you can get?02:18
Ngrublind: somewhere round 500mb, I'm not running the i386 version, so I don't have the exact size to hand02:18
mirak_yeah...it was yellwo that post too02:18
mirak_im using x-xhat at default02:18
SmokingFiremirak_: In my case if anyone mentions my name I get a sound thats the same from star trek (red alert).02:18
mirak_sweet.i want it02:18
Ngthat must be annoying ;)02:18
sabdflmirak_: rublind: release is expected on the 20th02:18
rublind52.5 MB seems a bit small >_<02:19
sabdflcd shipping will only start a week or two later02:19
SmokingFireNg: well not for me as I'm multitasking so its nice to know02:19
Ngrublind: erk, yes ;)02:19
mirak_i ordered 20 if it makes you feel better02:19
SmokingFiremirak_: I'm using gaim for irc. 02:19
mirak_ill try that leter02:19
rublindI ordered more than 20 cd's, I ordered 200 something. ^_^02:19
mirak_holy sh*t02:19
rublindI'm going to be handing them out like crazy.02:19
mirak_can i say that here???02:19
rublindTry it.02:19
mirak_holy shit02:20
SmokingFiredon't know, I see no mods02:20
rublindWhat, too many?02:20
mirak_im just asking if it is allowed, are mods gonna get angry?02:20
crimsunwe generally avoid cursing without reason :)02:20
mirak_ok......i will to then02:20
Kamionmirak_: try to be civil and respectful to people in general02:20
SmokingFirethis channel could use a bot for FAQ's02:20
mirak_thats why i asked02:20
Kamiontry to have ubuntu, in other words :-)02:20
mirak_and starred it first02:20
rublindWhat is ubuntu ?02:20
mirak_humanity toward others02:21
rublindWhat does it mean.02:21
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rublindIn what language?02:21
jdubrublind: 'be excellent to each other'02:21
SmokingFirelike ubuntu: faq mp3 and it prints the faq for getting mp3 to play02:21
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Ngjdub: haha02:21
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Kamionrublind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu02:21
Nghippy linux ;)02:21
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rublindYou have no idea how lazy I am. :P02:21
mirak_im gonna restart to see if mp3 works.....brb02:21
rublindAh, crap, one hour.02:22
SmokingFirerublind: can't be worse then me, my nick name in real life is horizontal (always sleeping)02:22
rublindNo, I'm not that bad. :P02:22
SmokingFireI'm like a cat, I kust save energy02:22
SmokingFirekust = just02:22
rublindUbuntu runs like all other linux distro's right? So if I learn to use it, I can work on other ones.... right? (I mean terminal wise)02:23
SmokingFirerublind: wouldn't know why not02:23
rublindI'm paranoid.02:23
Kamionrublind: we're very Debian-style so things you learn on Ubuntu will transfer well to Debian; many things will transfer to non-Debian distributions too02:23
SmokingFireAnything thats not on ubuntu can be installed02:23
rublindI've switched around in distros.02:23
rublindI had Knoppix, but I wanted the real thing, so then I tried SUSE, and didn't like it, and I just deleted my Fedora while trying to install ubuntu02:24
JanneMfor all the talk about linux being splintered, the differences between distros is pretty shallow02:24
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rublindI just want to be sure that I can move around in distro's.02:24
rublindI'd use gentoo if it wasn't so damned hard to install (just to see it), but again, lazy.02:25
LinuxJonesrublind, why would you want to move from Ubuntu ?02:25
JanneMrublind: you can02:25
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JanneMrublind: things that change are some tools, setup stuff and so, but all concepts and so are the same02:25
SmokingFirerublind: I also tried many linux distro's and ubuntu is the only one I kept and booted into often, now windows is secondary, however the real reason is that I didn't like KDE or the bloated redhat, mandrake installs and synaptic is very sexy.02:26
rublindLinuxJones, no clue, haven't tried it yet.02:26
SmokingFireI wanted a cross between BeOS and Linux and ubuntu does it for me.02:26
rublindUbuntu uses gnome right?02:26
rublindI don't like KDE.02:26
LinuxJonesrublind, what are you waiting for there are about 50 people here who will help you get it installed :)02:27
SmokingFireKDE is nice but on first view, to me its like las vegas neon and glitter.02:27
rublindLinuxJones, get what installed?02:27
rublindI'm downloading.02:27
SmokingFireI get blinded by all the options (neon and glitter) that I don't care for.02:28
LinuxJonesoh good man02:28
rublindBut I have to hold off, my dad works from home and needs the internet. :(02:28
rublindThat's why I want the CD's.02:28
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rublind... I think I should order more, 'cause I'm good at spreading things. ^_^02:28
nateanyone know where to find documentation on language packs?02:28
SmokingFireMy philosophy is file manager manages files, ftp client does ftp stuff, web browser does http based stuff.02:29
baHamSmokingFire, mine too02:29
rublindIsn't that similar to the Unix motto?02:29
rublind(not motto, but what they wanted to do)02:29
SmokingFirerublind: as far as I know yes. And I want to keep it that way.02:29
rublindI read about it last night (I'm borrowing a linux book from a friend, and want to switch distro's to the one I think will be permanent before I start practicing_02:30
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jvichey folks02:30
Ngyou can't argue with gnome-vfs giving nautilus support to browse sftp/ftp/smb though02:30
Ngthat's *hugely* useful02:31
jdubthose are filesystems02:31
jvici tried the ubuntu livecd and i've got one serious problem:02:31
Ngjdub: it goes against "file manager manages files, ftp client does ftp stuff" though ;)02:32
jvicafter using Ubuntu for a few minutes, it simply stops launching applications. I click them, it doen't open. *No* applications. Not even a terminal. Nothing. And this happened on the 2 machines i tested it. Why's that?02:32
SmokingFireNg: thats gnome-vfs does it is ok as that is developer side of gnome. But I don't need it in nautilus, my isp ftp server doesn't even work in nautilus.02:32
sepheebeargnome-vfs sftp support is awesome, I can access my OS X box without having to use the nightmare better known as netatalk02:32
jdubjvic: it's a feature. not. ;)02:32
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jdubjvic: no idea - is there any useful output on other consoles?02:33
NgSmokingFire: I think virtual filesystems like that are pretty vital to a useful desktop these days. pity it doesn't work for you, I use the sftp bit more than I do local files ;)02:33
sabdfljvic: which version of the livecd are you using?02:34
jvicjdub: no output... 02:34
rublindOh, here's a question, where is a good place to install stuff if I want all users to be able to use it?02:34
Ngrublind: what kind of stuff?02:34
jdubrublind: before installing anything manually, check that it's available in ubuntu (including universe)02:34
jvicsabdfl: oh dear i don't know... it was the first one i've seen, published on Osnews02:34
jdubrublind: if it's definitely not there, i'd recommend using gnu stow (which works with /usr/local)02:34
rublind... okay so /usr/local with a new folder for each program? Or all in the main folder?02:35
sabdfljvic: can you point us at the url you downloaded it from?02:35
SmokingFireNg: last day to update my webpage I needed to use the console ftp ftp.myisp.com as nautilus ftp just would not log me into my personal directory. On my isp we all use the same ftp address but depending on your login info it forwards to your own folder/site02:35
jdubrublind: with gnu stow, you install to /usr/local/stow/<package> and it manages symlinks back to /usr/local for you02:35
jvicjdub: i thought this was a common bug, don't know... because it happenned on 2 machines... by the way, on 1 one of them Ubuntu was actually *installed*, not running the live cd. And still the same prob.02:35
jdubrublind: what do you need to install manually?02:35
rublindI don't know what gnu stow is.02:35
NgSmokingFire: doh. Submit a bug report on gnome.org's bugzilla :)02:36
jdubrublind: apt-cache show stow02:36
rublindjdub: I'm not on ubuntu yet, I'm just curious02:36
jdubrublind: that's how i'd recommend handling it on any distro. but you shouldn't need to build stuff on ubuntu.02:36
jvicsabdfl: actually i wasn't the one who downloaded it, but the link was from here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2004-October/000001.html02:37
rublindjdub: I would if there are no RPMS for it...02:37
jvicsabdfl: i mean the link to the iso... not the torrent] 02:37
sabdfljvic: ok, there are newer images but none we feel is release candidate yet02:38
SmokingFireNg: Just tried tried  the ftp login again from nautilus and still the same problem.  Weird thing is that the ftp command from the console works.02:38
jdubrublind: ubuntu is based on debian (so uses deb, not rpm), and includes most of what's packaged in debian as unsupported packages. ie., most of the free software world. ;)02:38
NgSmokingFire: maybe nautilus isn't understanding something properly02:38
sabdflwe are likely to publish another live cd this week that will have a lot of updates from the first one02:39
sabdflperhaps work with the guys on this channel, if there's an obvious solution they will find it02:39
jvicsabdfl: does ubuntu has xchat?02:39
sabdflif not, try the updated one02:39
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sabdfljvic: yes02:39
rublindUh, okay.02:39
rublindI'll just come here if I need help. ^_^02:39
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jvicsabdfl: so i'll boot it and try to connect here from ubuntu... maybe i'll be able to get more info from there...02:40
SmokingFireWhen will open office 2 be released? I want the updated GUI and icons.02:40
sabdfljvic: go for it02:40
sabdfli'm signing out02:40
sabdflnight all02:40
jdubSmokingFire: should be in time for hoary02:40
jdublater sabdfl 02:40
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KamionSmokingFire: believe it's end of this year, but that's a vague memory02:40
SmokingFiredo you know of any other improvements like grammar check?02:41
SmokingFireIf it would be highly component bases like ms office it would be even better.02:42
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SmokingFireusing corbra/bonobo/orbit or whatever.02:43
Dekkardfirst flaw found.. printing is borked02:43
Dekkardand cups interface appears disabled??????02:44
jdubDekkard: Computer > System Configuration > Printing02:44
Dekkardbeen there done that02:44
Dekkardbut thanks02:44
Dekkardit recognizes the printer.. right driver appears loaded. (hpijs)02:45
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mirak_smokingfire: mp3's work now02:47
mirak_thank you ever so much02:47
SmokingFiremirak_: thank the channel02:47
LinuxJonesDekkard, you've tried re-started cups ?02:47
mirak_Channel: thank you02:48
Dekkardnow that ya mention it...02:48
SmokingFiremirak_: next time you will help some one with the same problem. 02:48
mirak_smokingfire: can you help me with flash plugin????02:48
mirak_that i will02:48
SmokingFireknowledge shared here falls under the gpl.02:48
SmokingFiremirak_: well in firefox pr1 its reall easy but its seems that ubuntu comes with a earlier version nowadays02:49
mirak_yeah, i used to the PRL02:49
SmokingFireanyway when using other distros installing flash was a breeze02:49
mirak_i am used to the PRL02:49
mirak_so what do i have to do???02:49
SmokingFirelet me get the info02:50
mirak_hopefully it will come as a rpm, i always have trouble with tar.gz02:50
SmokingFiremirak_: I'm sorry its not but its easy anyway as its binary file (I think)02:51
SmokingFiremirak_: go here and just follow the instructions: http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash02:51
mirak_ok...ill try.stick around ill prob need help02:51
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SmokingFiremirak_: its file that you need to unpack and run the script that will copy all files to the right place.02:52
LinuxJonesDekkard, did re-starting cups help ?02:52
mirak_i can handle this one02:52
=== Dekkard is havin trougle killin it..
Dekkardits fighting back02:52
mirak_is it f2 to open a console in the directory i am in??02:52
rexiboyhey guys thanks for the help! I was missing a couple of lines in the sourcs list... nvidia is working nice!02:52
SmokingFiremirak_: just download the file in your home and then right click on it and say unpackage or whatever.02:52
mirak_sweet glad to hear that rexiboy02:53
Ngrexiboy: cool :)02:53
rexiboythe wierd thing is though running dpkg-reconfigure does not actually writes to .conf-4...02:53
rexiboyhad to go in and edit manually02:53
mirak_how to open a console in that directory, smokingfire??02:54
rexiboyNg, that link did it all :)02:54
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SmokingFiremirak_: I think you can't from nautilus02:54
mirak_what is nautilus???02:54
SmokingFireyou will need to open and navigate to there.02:54
Ngrexiboy: :)02:55
mirak_i cant do that02:55
rexiboyglxgeras about 1350002:55
mirak_never tried02:55
mirak_cd .....something02:55
LinuxJonesrexiboy, there is some rules to follow @ the top of the XFree86Config-4 file, you must have edited the file manually @ some point.02:55
SmokingFiremirak_: before you do, just rename the folder to something easy like flash02:55
mirak_named it flash02:55
LinuxJonesrexiboy, previously that is02:55
rexiboyLinuxJones, yes I have many times :)02:55
SmokingFireok now open a console02:55
dmlmirak_, for flash try apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree from universe02:56
rexiboyvery happy got a snappy ubuntu64!02:56
mirak_root or normal????02:56
mirak_ill just finish this install, dml, gotta learn it sometime02:56
mirak_terminal open02:56
rexiboysee you all guys, got to go to the airport... thanks again for your help!02:57
mirak_later rexiboy02:57
SmokingFiremirak_: now type ls (which means list the files in the directory)02:57
mirak_flash is there02:57
mirak_err. that folder is there02:57
mirak_cd /flash   ????02:57
dmlmirak_, the package flashplugin-nonfree downloads flash and installs it for all users on your system02:57
SmokingFireok now type cd (which means change directory) flash. cd flash02:57
mirak_ok...........i think im starting to get this02:58
mirak_learned more here today, than i have in my last month in yoper02:58
SmokingFireare you in the directory flash?02:58
mirak_yes i am02:59
SmokingFiremirak_: remember what dml typed for the next time ( i didn't know)02:59
mirak_should i rename the installer file????02:59
SmokingFiremirak_: now type ./flashplayer-installer02:59
mirak_what does "./" represent???03:00
SmokingFirejust copy sudo ./flashplayer-installer from this screen and paste in the console sudo ./flashplayer-installer03:00
SmokingFireforgot the sudo part03:00
SmokingFire./ means current directory i think03:00
SmokingFireso copy can paste sudo ./flashplayer-installer into your console and enter the password03:01
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mirak_i wants the installation path of firefox03:01
mirak_it wants*03:01
mirak_i dont fully understand the file system yet03:01
mirak_plz help03:01
SmokingFireI don't know that off head03:01
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, ./ is the same as sh it runs the <file> as a script 03:02
mirak_thnx linuxjones03:02
SmokingFireLinuxJones: thanks03:02
SmokingFireAnyone know the path of firefox?03:02
mirak_was just gonna ask that, just didnt know how03:02
mirak_maybe "/user/lib/firefox"   ???03:03
LinuxJonesSmokingFire, /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox03:03
SmokingFirepath is in what directory its installed but not just its directory but the whole way to get there from the console03:03
asdf_46whereis firefox03:03
mirak_it say that it is not a directory03:03
mirak_so /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox isnt it03:04
mirak_linuxjones: /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox didnt work03:04
Ngtry /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/03:04
mirak_that was it03:04
mirak_ng: thnx03:04
mirak_you too linuxjones03:05
mirak_and smokingfire03:05
SmokingFiremirak_: now try it03:05
mirak_oh.it works03:05
mirak_and i am exited03:05
SmokingFireso you see installing tar.gz is not that hard03:06
mirak_well, i always had a hard time with ./configure....make.....makeinstall03:06
mirak_it always bombed out on me03:06
mirak_but that was YOPER, not ubuntu03:06
rublindI know this is ubuntu chat, but on windows, how do you install java for firefox?03:06
mirak_umm.....yes........but it is really easy with the preview release03:07
wm_eddiefirefox 1.0pr should installing automatically or something.03:07
mirak_2 click install03:07
SmokingFiremirak_: normally it works for me but sometimes it does give errors03:07
mirak_smokingfire: in ubuntu???03:07
crimsunrublind: you run the jre or jdk installer.03:07
SmokingFirerublind: just install java 5 (any version would do) and enable java in firefox should do it. It does for me.03:08
mirak_i used to never use irc chat....but now i see that it is the greatest thing ever03:08
SmokingFiremirak_: can't say, newby03:08
mirak_smokingfire: same boat as me , huh?03:08
SmokingFiremirak_: I think so03:08
mirak_smokingfire: its ok, we eill earn together03:08
mirak_wow.i can type03:09
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SmokingFiremirak_: do you use gaim for hotmail or yahoo or other?03:09
mirak_its ok ...we will learn together03:09
mirak_smokingfire: i only use aim chat03:09
SmokingFirewell aim is also gaim right?03:09
mirak_smokingfire: i realy dont chat much, just one in a while03:09
mirak_smokingfire: yes it is03:09
Nghttp://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats - you could try the java debs from that03:09
Ngbut it's not Sun's official jvm03:10
SmokingFiremirak_: A trick I learned last time to put often used application on you quick launch tray03:10
Nginstalling the jre from java.sun.com should be ok. you might have to make a symlink to the plugin, but that's about it03:10
mirak_smokingfire: already done03:10
mirak_smokingfire: lol03:10
SmokingFiremirak_: just that you can use gaim for irc and get sound alerts when someone mentions your name.03:10
mirak_smokingfire: i like x-chat..thnx though03:11
mirak_smokingfire: also, i really like gnome, didnt like kde so much03:12
SmokingFiremirak_: me neither, its to much for me.03:12
SmokingFireI like the keep it simple and stupid motto of gnome.03:13
SmokingFireUnless 03:13
SmokingFireUnless I hit the advaned button03:13
Ngwhat made you guys try linux, out of interest?03:13
mirak_that last thng didnt make sence to me03:13
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mirak_ng: i wanted to learn it...to better myself03:13
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wm_eddieNg: I can't remember when I learned about linux.  But when I was... 14, I bought Corel Linux.03:14
Ngmirak_: pretty good reason :)03:14
SmokingFireunless you hit the advanced options button or something like in firefox, I think its about:config or something.03:14
mirak_ng: thnx03:14
Ngwm_eddie: ah, that was an interesting distro ;)03:14
SmokingFirejdub: well its programmer jargon that I picked up.03:14
wm_eddieNg: I can't remember where I even learned about linux.03:15
jdubSmokingFire: no one says "simple and stupid"03:15
wm_eddieBut I've always kindof hated Windows.03:15
SmokingFirejdub: If you know joelonsoftware you know what I'm talking about.03:15
jdubSmokingFire: the acronym is KISS, for "Keep It Simple, Stupid"03:15
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Ngwm_eddie: I find I can't really remember either. it was quite a few years ago though ;)03:15
jdubSmokingFire: KISS is not known only to software developers, dude03:15
jdubSmokingFire: the difference between the comma and the and is important.03:15
wm_eddieNg: I wish I was using Linux in 1994... It was such an awesome time back then.03:15
SmokingFirejdub: I know ergonomics03:15
wm_eddieSince Linux was better than anything else.03:16
Ngwm_eddie: in 1994?!03:16
wm_eddieIt was light-years ahead of Windows 3.1 in every way!03:16
wm_eddieThen Microsoft released Windows 95.03:16
NgI started out in about 96/97 and it wasn't very good then ;)03:16
SmokingFirejdub: the acronym is KISS, for "Keep It Simple, Stupid" 03:17
SmokingFireSorry meant it like that. But what's the difference?03:17
jdubSmokingFire: it's not "simple and stupid", that implies something entirely different03:17
SmokingFirejdub: asking language was is not my strongest point03:17
SmokingFireto me the comma sounds like an and03:18
wm_eddiekeep it simple, stupid is calling someone stupid.  keep it simple and stupid means keep it simple and keep it stupid...03:18
wm_eddieand you don't want to keep it stupid.03:19
joebeastiei just did an apt-get upgrade. i am not liking the new artwork :-/03:19
wm_eddiejoebeastie: how can you not!?03:19
SmokingFirejoebeastie: You don't? 03:20
mirak_i noticed that a rant about "keep it simple, stupid" became not so simple03:20
joebeastiethis might have been talked about before and i am just beating a dead horse03:20
joebeastiebut i have been gone for a couple of days :P03:20
SmokingFirejoebeastie: it is03:20
joebeastiei will just search the mailing lists :)03:20
tris_joebeastie & wmEddie: i thought the new art work was a bit camp too.03:20
crimsunyou can just change the artwork03:21
SmokingFireubuntu developers stand point as far as i get is: "Live with it" but you can easily change it.03:21
crimsun(the theme, rather)03:21
mirak_is the "NEW" artwork the naked ppl????03:21
wm_eddieI actually really like it.03:21
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mirak_sorry just installe dtoday03:21
crimsuni like it, too03:21
SmokingFireI don't care and I don't call them naked people. As showing skin is as bad as showing pictures of a beach of people in swimming suits.03:22
SmokingFireReally I say not genitals nor breasts.03:23
SmokingFiresay - saw03:23
crimsunfrankly if I'm staring at the greeter, I'm not being productive; so I try to spend as little time as possible not logged in03:23
mirak_well they are naked, but it doesnt bother me at all....ill prob keep it for a while....i was just asking if that is the  "new" artwork03:23
joebeastiedoh. i apologize for making everyone beat the dead horse again03:23
mirak_not dead to me........i am new03:23
mirak_still a pony03:23
asdf_46I just wish the old theme didn;t dissapear.03:23
joebeastiemirak+: same here. probably best to read the archive mailing lists though03:24
asdf_46Don't like the brown mich03:24
SmokingFireI live in the netherlands naked people are almost as common on tv as dressed people. You just develop a (whats it called, dead skin)03:24
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SmokingFireyou know like the skin on you feet and hands03:25
NgSmokingFire: we (uk) would say, a thick skin :)03:25
mirak_true...nudity is only sought after because it is not common....almost forbidden03:25
wm_eddiemirak_: It's forbidden in some western cultures.  But in the east it's a little bit more liberal.03:25
paranoid_androidi have a question03:26
SmokingFireOnly western culture I know of is USA03:26
crimsunask away, paranoid_android.03:26
mirak_i am aware.........just stating points from my view03:26
SmokingFireHowever BBC from what I hear can also be quite conversative03:26
Ngnah, the BBC don't mind nudity03:27
paranoid_androidWhere can i find my windows98se partition in Ubuntu 9.603:27
Ngthey don't show a great deal of it, but their programmes don't tend to be things that naturally include nudity ;)03:27
SmokingFireBut the ubuntu was not nudity. Nudity is showing genitals to me.03:27
mirak_what is BBC??????03:27
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Ngmirak_: British Broadcasting Corporation!03:27
SmokingFiregenitals is not nudity 03:27
crimsunmirak_: probably meaning (the UK)03:27
Ngfinest television network in the world03:27
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mirak_in usa nips are nudity.......almost a whole breast can be exposed....just no nipple03:28
ivar*cough* cbc's pretty nice too03:28
SmokingFiremirak_: like PBS in the US however bigger and better.03:28
azeemhey haggai 03:28
jedixshow case goes border line hardcore.03:28
LinuxJonesThe Canadian Television Network plays The Sopranos @ 10:00pm uncut !!!03:28
mirak_yeah pbs suck03:28
Ngdon't judge the BBC just on BBC America though, or BBC World :/03:28
mirak_i havent watched that channel in like years03:28
Ngthey are both pretty weak ;)03:28
mirak_i dont watch bbc either03:29
SmokingFiremeaning showing genitals is different then showing breasts and showing breasts is different then showing a lot of skin in a non sexual way. 03:29
mirak_daytime tv is really restricted.......nite time is a bit more lax03:29
mirak_i thin after 9:00 they can show a bit more03:29
maswanNg: well, BBC World has its good spots, I mean, for a 24h news channel.03:30
SmokingFireLast time I saw a commercial for a womens soap here. You know what they showed?03:30
mirak_where is "here" to you smokingfire???03:30
mirak_soap opera03:30
Ngmaswan: after about half an hour I have to switch it off ;)03:30
SmokingFireThe showed a woman jumping from a plane and she pulls her suit and just shows her breast. Thats the whole commericial.03:31
maswanNg: I find it a fairly good background noise :)03:31
Ngmaswan: hehe03:31
Ngmaswan: I hate the weather jingle so much ;)03:31
SmokingFiremirak_: netherlands03:31
mirak_and a penis is never shown on american tv.....unless it is a documentary......never sexual03:31
mirak_smokingfire:   ok03:31
crimsunparanoid_android: does /etc/fstab tell you anything?03:31
Ngmirak_: pretty silly when you think there's about 3 billion of them out there ;)03:31
maswannudity used to be perfectly fine here (sweden), and in theory still is in a non-sexual context03:32
SmokingFiremirak_: I believe there is a difference between informative nudity and sexual .03:32
Ngpuritans will be puritans ;)03:32
mirak_but gotta protect the children03:32
mirak_america is so fucked up ne ways03:32
=== Ng stops trolling
SmokingFireChildrens need no protections. How else would farmer childrens manage with all the bulls and cows doing their thing?03:32
maswanbut american-style "eek. breasts are evil. think of the children!"-stuff is starting to turn up in society. ./03:32
maswan:/ even03:33
mirak_i am sorry room...i dropped an F' bomb03:33
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NgSmokingFire: we have a really stupid thing in the tabloids here at the moment. some reality tv show had a woman collect sperm from a pig for insemination and the papers went mental and claimed it was bestiality ;)03:33
mirak_wtf......they show that on mtv here.....daytime.....but it was johhny knoxville, and a cow03:34
SmokingFireNg: I saw the pics of it, beckhams ex hooker-friend right?03:34
mirak_well, he just inceminated the cow03:34
tsenghey kids, checkout the topic03:34
tsengits about Ubuntu Linux, cool!03:34
Ngmirak_: yup, mtv uk had the dirty sanchez (jackass with welsh) boys doing it with a stallion ;)03:34
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NgSmokingFire: thankfully I don't know that many details about it :)03:35
SmokingFiretseng: ubuntu is about pig insemination not03:35
Ngtseng: fair point :)03:35
SmokingFireNg: I can find the pics for you03:35
Ngtseng: ubuntu is just so controversial ;)03:35
tsengno pictures03:35
NgSmokingFire: seriously, no thanks03:35
mirak_so who wants to start an animal incemination channel????03:35
tsengwould you please get off it03:35
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SmokingFiretseng: ok03:36
=== chuck is now known as Chucho
mirak_smokingfire: remember when i said the flash was working, well it is functional, but not 100%03:36
SmokingFirewhy not?03:36
mirak_smokingfire: i would call it 50%03:36
paranoid_androidcant find FSTAB03:37
mirak_smokingfire: do you know waht purevolume.com is???03:37
SmokingFireehat sites did you check on? As macromedia director is a different format.03:37
SmokingFiremirak_: no, but will try now03:37
crimsunparanoid_android: /etc/fstab03:37
mirak_there is a pop-up player...it is supposed to display the names of the tracks......it doesnt......but the songs play fine....and everything else is functional03:38
paranoid_androidThere is no Fstab.03:38
SmokingFiremirak_: the frontpage of http://www.purevolume.com/ also giving you problems03:38
crimsunparanoid_android: there will not be a Fstab but a fstab03:38
crimsunparanoid_android: case sensitivity03:39
mirak_didnt check it...i go to the direct band page03:39
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punkassmirak_: works fine here03:39
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nateI just updated03:39
mirak_no...the main page is fine.....just the player is not displaying the track names03:39
natethe new default desktop certainly is striking03:39
natealso, pantsfree03:39
mirak_lol........"dead horse" ???????03:40
SmokingFiremirak_: http://www.purevolume.com/bedforddrive seems ok for me03:40
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mirak_try the pop-up player03:40
SmokingFirebut I'm using a special configuration03:40
mirak_does the pop-up player display the track names???03:40
imnesJust got ubuntu installed how can I install / enable the commercial nvidia drivers?03:40
SmokingFiremirak_: even in popup I see trackname03:40
imnesI was told that they're included but dunno for sure.03:40
crimsunimnes: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BinaryDriverHowto03:41
mirak_ok.....maybe after a restart it will be fixed????03:41
mirak_didnt restart after flash install03:41
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SmokingFiremirak_: my special config would be that I kept the configuration files that I used when Ubuntu still shipped with firefox pr1.03:41
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mirak_ahh....why did they stop???03:41
mirak_ther PRL is so much better03:41
Dekkardyep..just had to restart that cupsd.. knew it all along... that was just a test..03:42
crimsunPR is too unstable03:42
SmokingFiremirak_: restart is not alway needed. however a log off and on, should help most of the times.03:42
mirak_if i install it will it replace the current version???03:42
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mirak_/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/ .......if i install to that directory?03:42
SmokingFiremirak_: not as far as I know as the other distro's that I used normally just installed firefox in the home directory.03:43
mirak_smokingfire: yeah....by default......but you can change the directory03:43
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SmokingFirenever got to chancing that default. 03:44
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baHammy mouse wheel doesnt work03:45
baHamafter last reboot 03:45
mirak_baHam: did you change anything???03:45
baHammirak_, no..03:45
baHamthat's the point03:45
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baHammaybe I installed something that did..03:45
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SmokingFireI saw once this docu about Russians space program compared to modern (at that time) US space program. A Russian astronaut said that the Russians have a saying and mentality: If it's not broken don't fix it.03:46
mirak_baHam: im a noob i cant really help, but i know that you can change it in the xfree86 config file.......or whatever it is called03:46
mirak_but i dont know what to change03:46
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baHamI already tried03:46
mirak_well...i tried03:46
mirak_to help that is03:46
SmokingFirebaHam: using usb mouse?03:47
paranoid_androidSorry, but i cannot find "fstab"03:47
mirak_ahh...i use ps203:47
baHamSmokingFire, yep03:47
DeepSpaceAntbaHam ur mouse still doesn't work?03:47
baHamMy mouse works but I cant scroll.. that makes me nervous03:47
mirak_anyone wanna help me get all 4 of my mouse buttons working????03:48
DeepSpaceAntbaHam: is it a USB mouse/03:48
DeepSpaceAntI know how03:48
mirak_well 4 plus a scroll wheel03:48
MojoPeteall 4?03:48
crimsunparanoid_android: /etc/fstab  <-- full path03:48
DeepSpaceAntunder /etc/X11/XF86config-403:48
DeepSpaceAntand in there03:48
DeepSpaceAntgo under inputdevice03:48
DeepSpaceAntfor the mouse03:48
mirak_i have left right  scroll  and 2 more.....in window they go forward and backwards in a browser03:48
DeepSpaceAntand add these lines03:48
baHamyeah DeepSpaceAnt 03:49
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DeepSpaceAntOption "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"03:49
jvichello folks03:49
DeepSpaceAntI think like that03:49
mirak_deepspaceagent: me?? or Baham03:49
DeepSpaceAntOption "Buttons" "7"03:49
DeepSpaceAntI guess03:49
DeepSpaceAntadd those two lines03:49
SmokingFiremirak_: that takes an kernel additions and recompile, very complicated as far as I know03:49
DeepSpaceAntand restart X server and try it out03:49
mirak_smokingfire: forget it then.....i can live without it03:49
crimsunI have Option "YAxisMapping""6 7", too03:49
jvicso i found out how to temporarely solve the problem with not opening new applications... i executed "xhost +", and then i don't have that problem anymore. But that's an ugly bug...03:49
DeepSpaceAntcrimsun and ur scroll wheel doesn't work?03:50
mirak_smokingfire: its just a novelty03:50
crimsunDeepSpaceAnt: ibm scrollpoint. it works fine.03:50
DeepSpaceAntwell depends03:50
DeepSpaceAntsometimes "6 7" works03:50
DeepSpaceAntelse "4 5"03:50
MojoPetejvic: you couldn't just restart X?03:50
paranoid_androidThats what i do. It says "no such file or directory" or something?03:50
DeepSpaceAnthit control -backspace03:50
crimsunDeepSpaceAnt: i use Option "ZAxisMapping""4 5"  and what I just pasted.03:50
DeepSpaceAntbaHam got it?03:51
SmokingFiremirak_: My self I have a logitech mx500 with next to three buttons and a scroll wheel, back and forward buttons, pageup and page down buttons and a special button. I would like to configure it too.03:51
mirak_smokingfire: gonna log out....brb....trying to get flash to wrok right03:51
SmokingFiremirak_: ok03:52
crimsunparanoid_android: you have no /etc/fstab? where in Linux are you currently? (console, X, ...)03:52
baHamDeepSpaceAnt, no03:52
baHamDeepSpaceAnt, It is already there03:52
mirak_smokingfire: that is alot of buttons03:52
DeepSpaceAntbaHam is it  03:52
DeepSpaceAntbaHam"4 5" or "6 7"03:52
DeepSpaceAntbaHam change it to the other one03:52
baHam4 503:52
DeepSpaceAntmake it 6 703:53
SmokingFirebaHam: what does the input section of your xfree config say?03:53
paranoid_androidIm in X03:53
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SmokingFireparanoid_android: paranoid_android: (There was an error converting this message.  Check the 'Encoding' option in the Account Editor)03:53
mirak_havent treied yet03:53
mirak_still no workie03:54
SmokingFireparanoid_android: that was the error IRC printed on my screen03:54
crimsunparanoid_android: ok, how large is your Windows partition?03:54
mirak_MAN, DO I LOVE GNOME03:55
SmokingFiremirak_: it works?03:55
mirak_smokingfire: nope03:56
SmokingFireooh why do you love it then?03:56
mirak_smokingfire: still the smae03:56
crimsunparanoid_android: can you paste /proc/partitions in #flood?03:56
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baHamdoesnt work ;_;03:56
mirak_00, just a random shout.....kde was turning me away from linux......gnome is pulling me in03:56
SmokingFireok, to bad it doesn't work03:57
mirak_i dont think my issue has anything to do with gnome....i believe it to be a firefix or  flash problem03:57
mirak_but it is too bad....ill worry about it later03:57
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SmokingFirehey mirak_ try and search flashplugin in synaptic now.03:57
=== jason__ is now known as JasonI
paranoid_androidYou want me to paste the /proc/partitions info here?03:58
socommmirak_: why don't you install by hand?03:58
JasonIdoes anybody know if there is a 64-bit binary built yet of the flash plugin for linux?03:58
socommparanoid_android: #flood03:58
SmokingFiresocomm: he did but doesn;t work03:58
crimsunparanoid_android: not here, #flood03:59
socommSmokingFire: it works here, you have to give it a relative path to mozilla-firefox plugin.03:59
mirak_this should work.....it seems to be installing other dependancies as well03:59
SmokingFiresocomm: works but not 100% with manual install03:59
socommSmokingFire: what's the catch?03:59
paranoid_androidI new at this. #flood?03:59
crimsunparanoid_android: /join #flood03:59
socommparanoid_android: `/join #flood'03:59
socommparanoid_android: and paste your stuff there.04:00
mirak_socomm: it wasnt displaying track names in a pop-up falsh mp3 player from purevolume.com04:00
SmokingFiresocomm: don't know why it works on your desk. It basically works on his desk just not on a specific site that works on my ubuntu desk.04:00
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socommmirak_: that works here :^/04:01
mirak_still no workie04:01
socommMaybe I'm just 1337 like that :^P04:01
mirak_socomm: maybe04:01
mirak_socommL cuz im deff a newb04:01
socommmirak_: we all gotta start somewhere.04:02
mirak_socomm: tru.dat04:02
SmokingFiremirak_ , socomm: It works on my desk but I kept the files when ubuntu still had ff PR1 04:02
mirak_socomm: you think if i reinstall firefox, but install the prl, it will overwrite the current one???04:03
mirak_socomm: let me rephrase that....if i install the firefox prl, will it overwrite my current instalation?04:04
mirak_socomm: if i send it to the correct dir?04:05
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socommmirak_: dunno.04:07
socommThe correct dir is /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins04:08
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mirak_no no.to install firefox1.004:08
baHamhelpneed help -,-04:08
socommmirak_: and I don't know I haven't installed it myself.04:08
baHamhelpwhen I reconfigure my xserver-xfree86 it doesnt write the conf into the file, my x doesnt start.. what to do ???04:09
socommTry unpacking it to your homdir and coping the plugins to your homes firefox plugin dir04:09
mirak_looks like i am the guinie pig.......ill let you guys know04:09
baHamhelpwhen I reconfigure my xserver-xfree86 it doesnt write the conf into the file, my x doesnt start.. what to do ??? Please help me ;_; it's urgent04:09
socommbaHamhelp: are you configuring it as super user?04:09
socommYou'll need to configure it as sudo. Be sure you're doing it as sudo.04:10
mirak_it is a graphical installer04:10
mirak_how do i sudo that????04:10
baHamhelpI tried04:11
mirak_or are you not talking to me???04:11
jedixNg, how'd you install the nvidia drivers?04:11
baHamhelpi am sudo04:11
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baHamhelpi mean i tried with root04:11
baHamhelpbut doesnt work04:11
socommbam what command are your running?04:11
baHamhelplet me try to reboot04:11
jedixNg, in fedora that is.. it wants me to shut down x04:11
socommmirak_: install it into your homedir that way your current install doesn't get hossed.04:11
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mirak_i want my current to get tossed04:12
mirak_i want to replace it04:12
socommHmm ... all right.04:12
mirak_i just installed this today04:12
mirak_onlything i have done is mp3 support and flash04:12
mirak_so a reinstall in no big deal04:12
socommI don't think this w ill fix your flash problems, but nothing wrong with trying.04:13
mirak_thats what i am saying.....i read all over the place the best way to learn linux is to break it and then fix it04:13
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socommTrial and error.04:14
mirak_also i dont like to install things to home, its kinda like having a cluttered desktop04:14
whiprushI see morrell has decided to crash the ubuntu party ...04:14
mirak_whiprush: ??????04:15
mirak_who is morell04:15
whiprushthe guy being a tool on the mailing list. aka. the former smoothwall developer.04:15
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SmokingFiremirak_: My motto is: "I grow it, not buy it"04:16
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mirak_smokingfire: random thought, cuz that was over my head, unless you are smoking weed04:16
socommmirak_: or growing vegtables.04:17
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mirak_yeah...i guess04:17
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unlokiahey guys04:17
SmokingFiremirak_: I read something about the next version of ubuntu will have separte directories for images, downloads and others.04:17
unlokiaYou all ok04:17
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unlokiaI wanna learn about ubuntu04:17
mirak_that would be nice04:17
unlokiaCan u help me04:17
socommunlokia: we can ....04:17
mirak_unlokia: we are all learning, learn with us04:17
unlokiaI wanna know04:18
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unlokiaI have FEDORA installed04:18
unlokiacan I simply install UB over it04:18
baHamno you are in #ubuntu go to #fedora04:18
socommunlokia: yes.04:18
socommNext question.04:18
unlokiabaham u miss the point mate04:18
mirak_how do i sudo with a graphical installer?????04:18
SmokingFiremirak_: clutterd /home is what nautilus was made fore. Just create new directories and move and copy files04:18
limaunionunlokia: sure, just overwrite (format) you FC partition04:19
jdubunlokia: do you have a separate /home partition?04:19
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socommmirak_: use the terminal to launch the installer.04:19
mirak_smokingfire: so i should just make a dir called "apps"04:19
unlokiahavent a clue - all I know is that I have K12LTSP in there and wanna try UBUNTU#04:19
socommmirak_: `sudo ./installer.bin'04:19
SmokingFiremirak_: really depends on your personal choices04:19
neuro_[03:14]  <whiprush> I see morrell has decided to crash the ubuntu party ...04:20
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mirak_socomm: ok......but i cant remember how to change directory from terminal04:20
unlokiagonna try the live cd first04:20
socommmirak_: 'cd directory_you_wanna_change_to'04:20
SmokingFiremirak_: cd >changed directory<04:20
SmokingFiremirak_: guess you are from the generation that never saw ms-dos04:21
SmokingFiremirak_: same command on windows 2000/xp btw/04:21
unlokialol yeah dos was cool at the time04:21
mirak_smokingfire: i am 20, i know about dos, but never used it for much more than fdisk04:21
unlokiacd = current dir04:21
unlokiai remember win 3.1 :-S04:21
mirak_me too04:21
unlokiawhat a joke it was04:21
mirak_still got it around here somewhere04:22
unlokiaas are all M$ tings04:22
SmokingFireunlokia: as far as i know cd means change directory as when you enter cd <directory> it changes the dir...04:22
unlokiaunder-developed and missold04:22
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unlokiacurrent directory mate04:22
mirak_i figued it out.............haHA04:23
unlokiasmokingfire do a goooogle on cd04:23
unlokiaand get amazon.com back!!04:23
SmokingFireunlokia: when was an intern many years ago (about 6) they only had an win3.11 computer for me on 386 and it never crashed on me. However I never used more then word and solitaire.04:23
Kamionunlokia: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/cd.html04:23
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mirak_socomm: could you tell me the dir whre firefox is installed to again plz04:24
unlokiaAnyone seen the game CHROMIUM on ,linux?04:24
Kamion"current [working]  directory" is usually abbreviated to "cwd"04:24
socommmirak_: run `whereis firefox'04:24
socommmirak_: should be /usr/bin/firefox04:24
JanneMunlokia: yep. NEver got into it though04:24
unlokiaHey anyone managed to get linux onto xbox yet04:24
JanneMunlokia: yes04:24
unlokiajanneN u have mate??04:25
unlokiasorry 'M'04:25
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JanneMI have what?04:25
unlokiagot linux on xbox?04:25
unlokiaoops soryy04:25
JanneMbut there are people who have04:25
limaunionmate ? ;)04:26
SmokingFireWhy would you want ubuntu on xbox?04:26
JanneMlimaunion: australian would be a wild guess04:26
aaronwaiteam i in time for the community meeting or did i do my time math wrong again? :)04:26
JanneMSmokingFire: because it's there, I guess04:26
mirak_i give up........looks like im just installing it to home04:27
SmokingFireI want ubuntu on my vcr as much and its there04:27
aaronwaitei've been challenged to get ubuntu running on a powermac 6100 - but i'm pretty sure it's not possible.04:27
mirak_it should.did you get the ppc iso04:27
socommI'm out.04:28
aaronwaiteyeah. i have that - but this is an "old world" machine and MIGHT have 24Mb of RAM.04:28
SmokingFireI'm still in04:28
JanneMthe older powermacs have a lot of weird, nonstandard hardware I believe04:28
Kamionaaronwaite: that's oldworld, sorry, not possible04:28
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aaronwaitei'm going to try openbsd, but that's a different forum. :)04:28
JanneMperhaps a console-only minimal install?04:28
Kamionoldworlds are really hard to support at all and only barely work sometimes in Debian with a lot of hacking04:28
KamionJanneM: won't help04:28
SmokingFireaaronwaite: don't think modern gnome/kde would work on that ram04:28
mirak_very strange.......it is still ppc04:28
Kamionmirak_: it's weird powerpc, generally doesn't boot from CD just for a start04:29
JanneMSmokingFire: XFCe would probably run fine, though, if ram was the only issue04:29
aaronwaiteyeah... it has a funky network interface, no USB, a really weird video card.... 04:29
SmokingFiremirak_: like pentium is still 48604:29
aaronwaitekeep in mind... this is a 33Mhz machine. 04:29
Kamionoldworld openfirmware is generally pretty broken04:29
mirak_well, get a boot disk for it from apple, then try it04:29
SmokingFireyeah should ask apple nut heads04:30
aaronwaitei'm going to play with it this weekend. if anyone is interested, i'll report back here or on the users mailing list.04:30
Kamionwe also don't have the pieces in the installer that would help on oldworld.04:30
mirak_i like apple, beta testing osX was the sh*t04:30
Kamionaaronwaite: don't bother trying Ubuntu on oldworld, right now you really would be wasting your time I'm afraid. You might be able to get Debian going if you work fairly hard at it.04:30
aaronwaiteKamion: i wholeheartedly agree. :)04:31
=== Kamion <-- Ubuntu installer guy and Debian/Ubuntu powerpc porter
aaronwaitewow. i'm talking to THE expert! i'm honored. 04:31
crimsunit runs on a Pentium 233 w/ some effort04:31
jdub(Kamion is is a cyborg, btw, with thermonuclear fuel cells. It's pretty rad.)04:31
Kamionaaronwaite: not that I've ever got my oldworld box booting anything04:31
aaronwaiteoh, it totally does crimsun. i have it running on a Pentium 133.04:31
Kamionaaronwaite: but I need to get Mac OS <some-insanely-specific-version> for that, and it just hasn't made it high enough up the priority queue ...04:32
crimsuni have a lab of 200s and 233s that will be getting the ubuntu treatment04:32
aaronwaitei plan on replacing my 300Mhz Slackware box that hasn't been rebooted in 3 years with Ubuntu soon. just cause i like it. 04:32
Kamion(whereas jdub, of course, is a direct clone of at least one of Keanu Reeves' film personalities.)04:32
jdubspliced, dude04:33
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aaronwaiteso have we not officially started the "meeting" yet? (this is my first IRC meeting)04:33
aaronwaiteit was announded on the mailing list.04:34
jdubaaronwaite: with a time, too ;)04:34
aaronwaiteannounced even. 04:34
Kamion1400 UTC is ... some time away04:34
Kamionand Monday, too :)04:34
aaronwaitei'm recovering from surgery and on mega pain meds. i'm too drowsy to do the math. i figured i'd just show up and wait. :)04:34
aaronwaiteoh... yeah... monday... i probably can't wait that long. :)04:35
Kamionthe day was just in the subject line of Mark's message, I think04:35
JanneMaaronwaite: with fun enough meds you'll see time will fly like nothing :)04:35
SmokingFirethere is a meeting?04:35
aaronwaiteso can i ask a question that hasn't been answered on the mailing list yet, or is that overkill?04:36
SmokingFirewould like to know how an OS development team works and things04:36
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crimsunaaronwaite: by all means04:37
SmokingFireSo ubuntu guys know the the kernel like the pope knows the bible?04:37
helixdoes anyone have the october mbox of ubuntu-users they can send me?04:37
aaronwaitethanks! i went to change the lovely sepia background today and no matter what i select as a different image (or color for that matter) it doesn't change. it simply does nothing.04:38
crimsunhelix: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October.txt.gz04:38
jdubaaronwaite: have you restarted your session?04:38
aaronwaitei've never heard of such a thing, so i don't even know how to troubleshoot.04:38
SmokingFireaaronwaite: I have that same problem now and then. log off and changes it.04:38
aaronwaiteyep. restarted the session and the whole computer a few times.04:38
jdubaaronwaite: that generally ends up being a desync bug between gnome-settings-ademon and friends04:38
baHamaaronwaite, it's a gnome problem, just restart 04:38
aaronwaiteok. i'm going to hold you to that. i'll be right back. :-)04:39
baHamHey guys, do you like my desktop: http://img71.exs.cx/img71/3006/Screenshot13.jpg04:39
SmokingFirenice how did you get gsesklets to work?04:39
crimsunjdub: so logging out and back in should resolve that?04:39
SmokingFireI downloaded it from synaptic and nothing happens04:40
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aaronwaiteok. so you made a liar out of me. 04:40
SmokingFireeven clicking on the meny04:40
jdubgenerally, unless g-s-d is still there, etc.04:40
crimsunjdub: ok, thanks. Good to know. :)04:40
sepheebearusually a killall nautilus clears it up for me04:40
helixmutt seems unhappy with this.04:40
aaronwaiteoddly though, i HAVE restarted the computer several times today with no success. wierd.04:40
SmokingFireaaronwaite: you are a liar!!04:41
aaronwaitei know, i know. so sue me. :)04:41
SmokingFireaaronwaite: gnome/gnu people have no reason to lie!04:41
baHamSmokingFire, it's easy04:41
SmokingFirebaHam: please share04:41
baHamSmokingFire, just download the desklet, install it by launching the Install_blabla.py or .bin and then run "gdesklets desklet.display"04:42
SmokingFirebut in synaptic I find the program gdesklets, what does it do/04:42
limaunionbaHam: nice icons just don't like the background image; from where did you get the icons ?04:43
sepheebearisnt there a new gdesklets with somw sorta browser or something to make that easier?04:43
baHamlimaunion, they are called gant04:43
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SmokingFirebaHam: will try it04:43
aaronwaitecan anyone elaborate on SVG support in Gnome? i've been having fun making vector backgrounds - but they must be rasterized at some point as i see some jaggies sometimes.04:43
baHamwhat is the default password of root in ubuntu ?04:44
baHammy buddy just got it.. and he cant access to root04:44
limaunionbaHam: ok thanks04:45
ograba:H: no root password, use your own04:45
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joemthere is no root account set up, the user created durring install has full sudo privs04:45
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SmokingFirebaHam: I installed gdesklets and gdesklets-data from synaptic04:46
ograbaHam: or use a rootshell from the menu04:46
baHamit requires a password04:46
ernestohola alguien habla espaol04:46
ograbaHam: yes, yours04:46
baHamernest: io ablo un pochito espanol04:46
ernestook, 04:46
SmokingFirewhen moving to /usr/share/gdesklets it gives me this:04:46
SmokingFireDisplays  Themes  data     display  gdesklets    locale  pack_sensor.py  utils04:47
SmokingFireSensors   config  desktop  factory  libdesklets  main    sensor04:47
baHamernest: que es el problema 04:47
baHamernest: io ablo italiano e francese ablo pochito espanol04:47
SmokingFirewho is ernesto04:47
RandomizeSo, what do people typically do to get their multimedia keys working under X?04:48
baHamRandomize, what do you mean04:48
limaunionbaHam: :)04:48
SmokingFireRandomize: thats easy04:48
LathiatRandomize: i use a program called hotkeys04:48
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SmokingFireRandomize: Computer --> Desktop Prefernces ---> keyboard shortcuts04:49
SmokingFireRandomize: select the option and push the button on your keyboard.04:49
ernestosabes si el cdrecord tiene algun forks?04:49
RandomizeSF:  ROFL.  OK.  I knew about that but I assumed it wasn't going to work (was too used to it not behaving for me on other distros.)04:50
jedixthis is driving me insane.04:50
RandomizeThanks, I should have tried it again.04:50
jedixI cannot get out of x04:50
crimsunjedix: you can't log out?04:50
Lathiatjedix: If it wont logout you can press ctrl+alt+backsapce to kill the session04:50
Lathiatjedix: note youll lose any work etc04:50
limaunionernesto: a que te referis a si tiene un fork ?04:51
jedixit's fedora core 204:51
baHamman ubuntu r0x so much04:51
crimsunjedix: what are you trying to do, log out of your X session, or stop the X display manager?04:51
baHamthat I play counter-strike through steam, speak with the MICROPHONE on TEAMSPEAK 04:51
jedixcrimsun, install nvidia drivers04:52
jedixI have to be out of x04:52
crimsunjedix: switch to a console (ctrl+alt+F1), then log in as root and: telinit 304:52
crimsunjedix: then run the installer04:52
Lathiator you could /etc/init.d/gdm stop, but telinit 3 works too04:52
ernestoosea a algn software derivado04:53
jedixcrimsun, thank you04:53
theantixtomboy is a really cool app04:54
Lathiatwhats tomboy do? is that that notes application?04:54
limaunionernesto: lo podes integrar con xcdroast, pero todavia no lo probe en Ubuntu.04:54
theantixLathiat: yeah -- but it has some wiki-like features04:55
Lathiattheantix: cute04:55
Lathiatits mono isnt it?04:55
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theantixyou need tseng's mono packages though, yeah04:55
Lathiati have them yeh04:55
Lathiati should try it out, has anyone packaged it or do i need to compile it?04:55
Lathiati was traying to get beagle/dashboard to go but it keeps crashing :(04:55
jdubit's also in tseng's repo04:55
Lathiatoh it is?04:55
theantixjdub: heh, thanks that would have saved me some effort 04:56
tsengbeagle/dashboard needs newer dbus04:56
tsengamong other things04:56
Lathiattseng: Yeh i packaged that for myself04:56
LinuxJonesHi Jeff,  how are you ??04:56
Lathiatbut like at runtime the gui for dashbaord keeps dying and stuff04:56
Lathiatmight update cvs and try again04:57
tsengi see.04:57
jdubyo LinuxJones 04:57
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tsengi have yet to use it, there isnt even a release afaik04:57
baHamaeruder, kansas?04:57
Lathiattseng: ooc, what was the alternate method or something you mentioned about those monodep dependencies (i.e. why was my patch wrong?)04:57
tsengLathiat: oh04:57
tsengLathiat: dh_netdeps04:58
tsengfigures it out exactly04:58
aeruderbaHam: yup :)04:58
tsengand then you can just use ${net:Depends}04:58
Lathiatoh how does it do that?04:58
tsengmagical voodoo.04:58
jedixcrimsun, have any tricks to getting doom3 working?04:58
Lathiatcatch file accesses or somethigni assume?04:58
tsengi dont know, something like that.04:58
Lathiatheh tomboy crashes as well :)04:58
tsengnot here.04:59
crimsunjedix: dunno, try in #nvidia04:59
crimsunjedix: my system is far underpowered to play that game04:59
mirak_anyone know where to get the full install for enemy territory????04:59
aaronwaitespeaking of gaim - think we'll get the new version for the final warty release?05:00
Lathiatmirak_: www.angrygoats.net05:00
baHamjedix, installed nvidia drivers?05:00
aeruderwhat's the status of the Xorg vs. Xfree in ubuntu right now  ? 05:00
ograaaronwaite: 4 days of testing ???05:00
jdubaaronwaite: no, release is wednesday, we are in absolute deep freeze.05:00
jedixbaHam, yes05:00
mirak_lathiat: all i need is the .exe????05:00
baHamjedix, so, what's the problem05:00
jdubaeruder: same as always - x.org due in warty05:00
jdubaeruder: s/warty/hoary/05:01
aaronwaiteok. gotcha. i haven't had any issues except for the popup telling me to upgrade when i start it. 05:01
SmokingFirebtw what time and what channel will be the monday meeting be?05:01
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baHamjedix, what's the problem ?05:02
jedixbaHam, I'm trying copying the pak files again..05:02
mirak_so what time would that be eastern????05:02
crimsun-4 hours05:03
baHamjedix, yeah, copy em and copy the game00 and game01 too05:03
Lathiatmirak_: not for linux05:03
jedixbaHam, said "Unknown command 'vid_restart'05:03
mirak_lathiat: i need it for linux05:03
samuelcI was i was just installiwhewhenever I go to start xwindows, it loads up for about 3 seconds and then dumps me out05:03
baHamjedix, googlize05:03
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mirak_lathiat: what do i need for linux???05:04
aaronwaitemirak - i think that means 10:00 eastern standard time. i could be wrong though. i never change my watch when i travel.05:04
crimsunit is 10:00 AM EDT05:04
mirak_aaronwaite: i think so too, i am going to have to miss it05:04
mirak_i will be at work05:04
jedixbaHam, where are the game00 and 01 files?05:04
LinuxJonescrimsun, it's 12:03 ADT :)05:04
aaronwaitei'll be on pain meds - but i'm going to do my best to be there. :)05:04
crimsunLinuxJones :P05:05
mirak_aaronwaite: ill trade ya05:05
mirak_anyone: linux install file for enemy territory.......where can  get it???05:05
aaronwaitemirak: i'd almost agree to that. a year off work and limited mobility is starting to make me go crazy. i'd love to go back to work!05:05
baHamjedix, in the 3rd cd i think05:05
baHamjedix, I havent installed it yet on ubuntu, it worked fine on debian tho05:06
mirak_aaronwaite: what happened??????05:06
ograLinuxJones: no, 05:06 CEST :)05:06
mirak_aaronwaite: what could you have possibly done to get a year off???05:06
mirak_aaronwaite: loss of limbs???05:07
LinuxJonesogra, you must be far west coast , I am far east coast :P05:07
LinuxJoneswth is cest ?05:07
ograLinuxJones: europe ----> very faaaar westcoast *g*05:07
aaronwaitetwo ruptured discs, major back surgery - went back to work for supid employers who added a really physical task to my job - another ruptured disc, a second unsuccessful surgery - many months of pysical therapy and cortizone injections with no success, so i'm looking at another surgery.05:07
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aaronwaitethe term "spinal fusion" really frightens me though. :-\05:08
LinuxJonesogra, haha I am very eastern North America :P05:08
ograLinuxJones: yay, ubuntu spreads the world05:09
LinuxJonesogra, ya I am in love :)05:09
aaronwaiteon a positive note though, the pending lawsuit is probably going to get me through college. :)05:09
baHamdoes anybody have an mx510 ?05:11
mirak_jeez...35 min wait before the dl even starts05:11
=== zenwhen_ is now known as zenwhen
LinuxJonesogra, I have finally found the distro that I feel comfortable with in every respect !!! 05:12
ernestoconocen alguna manera de previsualizar wmf en nautilus?05:12
aaronwaitehas anyone tried the game "America's Army" in linux yet? i was surprised to see a game of that quality for free (i tried it in windows).05:12
mirak_aaronwaite: where are you, i know here in the us they have a new surjury to where they dont have to fuse the spine, unlesss youa rent a candidate for some reason05:12
SmokingFirewhy doesn't xchat on ubuntu look like on this shot:http://freedesktop.org/~keithp/screenshots/giantclock.png05:12
aeruderaaronwaite: i have...05:12
aeruderSmokingFire: once we get xorg...05:13
SmokingFireaeruder: so much better intergrated05:13
aeruderwell... that won't make xchat look like that05:13
aeruderbut it'll give the other coolnesses in that screen ;)05:13
mirak_onlything i see that is diff is the  white bg05:14
SmokingFireaeruder: use ubuntu theme and let people them selfs decide what they like05:14
aaronwaitemirak: i'm in detroit. my doc is aware of those procedures, but the success rate is lower for that and since i've already had two, he doesn't want to risk it.05:14
aaronwaiteaeruder: does it work pretty well? 05:14
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=== aeruder was in detroit a few days ago
mirak_hmm...somehow i just cut in line at fileplanet05:14
aaronwaiteand you didn't visit!? 05:14
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aeruderaaronwaite: i've found it to be somewhat more unstable wrt acceleration05:15
aeruderbut that may just be an ati radeon driver problem05:15
mirak_aaronwaite: i am near to detroit, southgate05:15
aaronwaiteaeruder: gotcha. i have a radeon as well. 05:15
ograLinuxJones: yeah the right people doing the right stuff (and the right art !)05:15
mirak_radeon here too05:15
aaronwaitemirak: cool! i'm actually a little north of detroit in Rochester.05:15
mirak_aaronwaite: not too far...i work in westland05:16
aaronwaitemaybe we should start an ubuntu users group. hehe.05:16
=== whiprush works in rochester
SmokingFireanyknow about the command updatedb?05:16
mirak_aaronwaite: hmmm....sounds like a plan05:16
aeruderSmokingFire: what about it ? 05:16
aaronwaitewhiprush: rochester michigan? 05:16
SmokingFirewhy can't it do realtime updates?05:17
mirak_aarownwaite: we could just order a buch O' cd's and sweep southwest mich05:17
aaronwaitecool. anyplace i might know?05:17
LinuxJonesogra, well maybe I should retract my last iRC statement,,,, :)05:17
SmokingFiremeaning why do I need to run it now and then?05:17
mirak_err southeast05:17
whiprushaaronwaite: at oakland.edu, I'm a sysadmin at the engineering school05:17
aeruderSmokingFire: you really want updatedb burning cycles in the background nonstop ? 05:17
wm_eddieno im-ja!?!?05:17
wm_eddieHow will I input japanese!?05:17
ograLinuxJones: don't you like it ?05:17
aaronwaitewhiprush: cool! i mowed the lawn there for a few summers. :)05:18
mirak_what is burning cycles?????05:18
SmokingFireaeruder: smart updating <idle, given total access, or other>05:18
aaronwaitei'm 6 minutes from oakland.edu.05:18
mirak_no fair ...he is closer05:18
aeruderSmokingFire: well, you could put it in a crontab to run once an hour with a high nice level05:18
mirak_im about 10 mins south of detroit05:18
whiprushwe should link up sometime, I got same mad ubuntu love at work.05:18
SmokingFireupdatedb run as daemon05:18
whiprushnearly have a mirror up, but some hw difficulties to overcome.05:19
aaronwaiteyou're outnumbered mirak. you'll have to come this way for our meeting. :)05:19
mirak_:(...i know05:19
mirak_but its ok....its worth it05:19
aaronwaitei'll buy the person that has to travel the furthest a coffee - or a beer - wherever we happen to meet. :)05:19
LinuxJonesogra, the art is very well done but...I just can't relate to folks that I do not recognize....If Halle Berry was in those pics ...ya I would be VERY happy with it :D05:19
SmokingFireif update can run as an idle time daemon it could be the backend of a apple like search tool or now like google desktop search.05:20
mirak_aaronwaite: thatd be mee05:20
aaronwaitewhiprush: i'm not very mobile at the moment - but if you have a free night, we could try to hook up. aaron@volvoguy.net05:20
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mirak_whiprush: what is the prob with the mirror???05:20
whiprushubuntu release party. :p05:20
mirak_whiprush: sounds like a plan05:21
staticactivityhi everyone05:21
aaronwaitewhiprush: i can pick your brain about computer classes at oakland. :) that's probably where i'll go back eventually.05:21
LinuxJonesstaticactivity, hi :)05:21
ograLinuxJones: i had it running in the office since it's out and it attracted a lot of people.... no negatives... and my company is pretty conservative otherwise05:21
whiprushmirak_: all I have to spare for it is a sun e450, and most of the disks are missing, so I've been hunting around looking for them.05:21
staticactivityhey can anyone tell me how i can get colors in Eterm05:21
whiprushaaronwaite: hopefully by the time you come back we'll have the linux labs up. :p05:22
mirak_i have an amdk6 1.1ghz laying around05:22
mirak_i think the mobo has probs though05:22
mirak_maybe ..maybe not.......havent fully tested it05:22
LinuxJonesogra, that's great !!! I guess it's just a personal preference :B05:22
aaronwaitei'm totally in for a release party. we'll have to discuss it offline. 05:22
mirak_maybe aim chat????05:23
aaronwaitesure. i'm awaite3205:23
SmokingFireSo any reason why updatedb can't run at idle time?05:23
whiprushaaronwaite: we'll probably hit up BW3's in utica for a release party.05:23
whiprushI'll mail you though05:23
SmokingFireBTW: When will ubuntu support windows xp?05:23
mirak_umm..if thats a bar...im only 2005:24
aaronwaitewhiprush: awesome. let me know.05:24
ograLinuxJones: it's linux, everything is personal preference  *g* 05:24
jedixbaHam, you still around? I have everything working except sound :(05:24
=== whiprush puts aaron and the release party in tomboy
SmokingFirecould you explain to me gconf, its an windows like registry?05:24
LinuxJonesogra,  good point ;)05:24
whiprushgreatest app ever.05:24
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SmokingFireor is gconf a collection of configuration files, that folow as simulair standard?05:25
bluefoxicythat's what gconf is05:26
KeybukSmokingFire: it's basically a collection of XML files05:26
bluefoxicya bunch of config files and directories05:26
baHamjedix, sound is another thing.. does it work on your main ubuntu ?05:27
baHamjedix, hold on05:27
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SmokingFireok, few. now binary config, thats good05:27
SmokingFirenow - no05:27
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jedixbaHam, yes05:28
SmokingFirebut a common place to config is also good05:28
baHamjedix, here I am05:28
baHamjedix, so, it is a different problem.. hmm dunno,, 05:28
jedixbaHam, I think it has to do with alsa05:28
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ograLinuxJones: nearly dawn here need to sleep ...... g'night05:30
jedixhe sound engine currently requires the OSS API,05:30
LinuxJonesogra,  have a good one :)05:30
baHamO M G05:32
baHamO M G05:32
baHamI tried like every existing distro05:32
baHamand ubuntu really owns everything05:32
baHamincluding gentoo and debian05:32
baHamunsupported stuff works without problems05:32
baHami play counterstrike and speak on teamspeak with the microphone 05:32
=== neuro_ prefers SMG
LinuxJonesbaHam,  it is very nice isn't it :D05:33
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JanneMthe worrying thing is, this is still the prerelease of the first, rough release05:35
JanneMsort of wonder how they'll be able to top it05:35
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JanneMsince it already works better than most stuff out there (modulo stuff that's not included yet)05:35
baHamLinuxJones, it pwns everything05:36
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punkassanyone here you waproamd?05:36
punkassyou = use05:36
LinuxJonesJeff are you still around ?05:36
baHamhaha rocky on TNT05:38
jdubam now05:38
LinuxJonesCan I pm you ??05:39
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GOwini managed to mess up grub. now i can't boot to ubuntu or windows in my laptop. how can i repair this?05:44
baHamGOwin, what's the problem05:44
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GOwini can't boot the system.05:48
chris_hi, i did a very dumb thing, i accidentely deletet the .dev directory and now i can't boot ubuntu anymore05:48
JanneMchris_: oops05:48
GOwinit's a dual boot laptop. it was working ok and had just been usign windows. when i rebooted to go back to ubuntu. i won't work anymore05:49
chris_JanneM: what can i do?05:49
JanneMchris_: do you have any important data on the install?05:49
chris_JanneM: yes05:49
JanneMdo you have a partition with another OS?05:49
JanneMor an empty partition?05:50
chris_JanneM: winxp05:50
JanneMyou can boot using the install disk, or a rescue disk05:50
aaronwaiteok guys. pain meds kickin' in. i'll talk to y'all later! g'night.05:50
chris_i already copied the home directory with a windows-tool that gives read-access to extfs05:50
JanneMmount the partition05:51
JanneMthat was what I was worrying about05:51
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JanneMyour data is safe, so now it just a matter of work05:51
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JanneMhonestly, I think the only sure way of getting it into a sane state is to redo the install05:52
JanneMyou have your backed up so most installation stuff you can just copy back05:52
JanneMyour home05:52
chris_JanneM: no good idea, cause i updated the system on a regular basis since i installed the preview release some weeks ago05:52
JanneMno problem05:52
Keybukwhy does it fail to boot?05:52
Keybukwhat's the error?05:52
JanneMyou install, do one update, and you're back to where you were05:52
JanneMchris_: there may be a way to regenerate the dir05:53
JanneMI don't know how, though05:53
chris_Keybuk: kernel panic, can't read dev console and so on05:53
Keybukchris_: how far down the boot process?05:53
Keybukcan you boot in recovery mode, and if not, failing that if you add init=/bin/sh to the boot line, can you boot with that?05:54
baHamU B U N T U  R O X05:54
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chris_Keybuk: i erased the .dev directory :-(05:55
Keybukchris_: yeah, but you shouldn't need anything in there to just get the system running05:55
JanneMyou need dev for console, don't you?05:55
Keybukonce you've got a prompt, it's easy to recreate05:55
chris_Keybuk: how?05:55
JanneMyou can get there with a rescue CD and mount the partition as well05:55
Keybukchris_: "MAKEDEV generic"05:56
chris_Keybuk: that's it`?05:57
Keybukchris_: well, if you can get a prompt you'll need to do a few things.  First remount the drive so you can write to it (mount -o rw,remount /), second create /dev (note, no dot) if it doesn't exist (mkdir /dev), change into it (cd /dev) then run MAKEDEV generic05:58
Keybukthat'll repopulate /dev with the generic device set05:58
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chris_Keybuk: so whats .dev about?05:58
Keybukwell, on Ubuntu /dev is actually a temporary filesystem that's populated automatically as and when devices are discovered05:59
Keybukso it rebinds /dev to /.dev then mounts its own tmpfs over /dev05:59
Keybukthat happens *very* early in the boot process, but it's not the first thing05:59
chris_ok, so this has to be the reason for the system not booting?05:59
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Keybukyeah, it needs things like /dev/console and /dev/null before udev takes over :)06:00
chris_ok, ill give it a try, thanks for the help06:01
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mirak_i am a noob, i have the file "et-linux-2.56-2.x86.run"....how do i go about installing it????06:03
GOwini managed to mess up grub. now i can't boot to ubuntu or windows in my laptop. how can i repair this?06:03
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punkassmirak_: in terminal, goto directory where it is,, then do what Phr0stByte said06:03
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mirak_punkass: it says command not found......btw i have to add sudo in front of that06:05
punkassoh make sure it is executable06:05
mirak_ls shows the file...so i am in the right directory06:05
mirak_how to make sure it is executable?06:06
punkasschmod 775 et-xxxxxxxxxxxx06:06
punkassshould do it06:06
mirak_exactly that????06:06
punkassno the name of your file06:06
punkassxxxxxxxx = i am lazy ;)06:06
mirak_ok so chmod 775 et-linux-2.56-2.x86.run06:07
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mirak_didnt do anything06:07
mirak_do i need to sudo??06:07
punkassnow try ./et-linux......06:07
punkasssudo ./et-linux-xxxx06:07
Phr0stBytepunkass: Any good books you could recommend for learning python?06:08
mirak_ahh...that was it06:08
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mirak_what did the chmod do?????06:08
KeybukPhr0stByte: Dive into Python06:08
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punkassno dont know any..have to get some myself...just have a Python Web programming book from school06:08
crimsunPhr0stByte: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/06:08
mirak_what is python???06:08
punkassscripting language06:09
crimsunwww.python.org, mirak_ 06:09
LinuxJonesmirak_, a scripting language06:09
mirak_thnx...........and what does chmod 775 do????06:09
LinuxJonesmirak_, you can build graphical applications with it as well ;)06:10
punkass7='owner' can read,write,execute06:10
mirak_i see on both comments.........thnx06:10
crimsunmany ROX applications are built using Python and its Gtk2 interface06:10
punkassfirst 7=owner,  second7=group, third number= anyone06:10
mirak_wow.......so much to learn06:11
doubletwistAny ltmodem [winmodem]  experts in the house? :) I have a problem that may or may-not be ubuntu specific.06:11
punkasscrimsun: what level is that book at?06:11
doubletwistThe modem works in windows, and it previously worked in linux on this box as well as another.06:11
doubletwistI've got ltmodem compiled, and it seems to work ok, I get dialtone and it dials out and negotiates a connection...06:11
mirak_doubletiwst: did it aouto work with the other distro???06:11
crimsunpunkass: beginning python, covers OOP basics, too06:12
doubletwistBut at the point where it starts authenticating [right after the speakers shuts off] , it disconnects and the log just gives me an "Alarm" entry.06:12
crimsunpunkass: in the ora tradition, there are also Programming - & and - Cookbook titles, too06:12
punkasscrimsun: ooo cookbook my come in handy06:12
doubletwistmirak_ , yes it worked in debian, on this machine as well as another.06:12
mirak_OMG.i cant belive it.......yesterday...when i used Yoper, i was toled ther was basically no hope of me running enemy territory due to my ati radeon 7000/ve06:13
mirak_ubuntu gives me no probs what so ever06:13
mirak_i am deff settles here06:13
punkassmirak_: runs ut2004 well to06:13
=== doubletwist is gonna kill someone if he doesn't get broadband soon. First time since 1996 withouth. Argh!
mirak_really............that is really good to hear06:14
mirak_how do you do that ooc chat???06:14
doubletwisttype "/me message"06:15
punkassyou can get the linux demo from 3dgamers.com06:15
=== mirak_ this is just a test
mirak_thnx punkass06:15
mirak_how to update the menus in gnome06:15
mirak_i just installed screem and ET06:15
punkasset should show up under Games06:15
doubletwistAny ideas on the ltmodem/ppp issue? I've tried everything I can think of...06:15
=== doubletwist wants to kill whoever invented the winmodem.
mirak_punkass: it doenst, do i need to restart, or osmething else, in kde i had to run menueupdate06:16
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doubletwistUT never showed up in my gnome menu.06:16
punkasshmm a logout/in may do it.. or you can right click on any submenu item and just add it06:16
mirak_punkass: i dont know why i cant type today.......i does not show under games06:17
mirak_ill try to logg...brb06:17
punkassi just installed ut last nite and it appeared under my games menu06:17
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ushoozthis is one way to edit the menues06:18
mirak_punkass: it is there now...thnx06:18
ushoozclick applications06:18
mirak_iwas gone...if that menu update comment was for me06:18
ushoozgo down to run application06:19
ushooztype in applications:///06:19
mirak_ushooz: exactly that????06:19
ushoozthen you can modify your menu structure06:19
ushoozyou can add folders move the menu structure around add applications remove application shortcuts etc etc06:20
mirak_ubuntu is the best thing ever.........it just works, YOPER was a deff linux turn off06:20
punkassor if u wanna add a submenu item you can right click on any submenu item and just add a new one06:20
mirak_ushooz: thank you ever so much06:20
ushoozbut this gives ya more power punkass :)06:21
mirak_i like the applications:/// approach06:21
punkassushooz: definalty does06:21
ushoozmore control is a better use of words06:21
mirak_well...ill be back...gonna give ET a test run06:21
ushoozhave fun06:21
mirak_can i boot to a command line and run it, so gnome isnt chewing ram, my stem isnt the best???06:22
ushoozit needs X06:22
mirak_1.3ghz 256 mb ram ati radeon 7000/ve 64mb06:22
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mirak_what about a light weight X wm???06:23
mirak_or do you think ill be ok?06:23
punkassyou should be ok i think06:23
doubletwistafk gonna try something new for ppp.... [crossing fingers] 06:23
punkasset is not that resource intensive06:24
mirak_ok.....il be back in a bit to let you know how it went06:24
ushoozQuake 3 engine06:24
punkassushooz: old hat now ;)06:24
ushooz450 PII was reco06:24
ushoozrecommended 06:25
punkassah yes06:25
punkassi just wish i could get trackmania workin under linux06:25
ushoozno idea what that is06:26
punkassits a fun little car game06:26
crimsuni'm a fan of Death Rally06:26
punkasssorta like a the old  'excitebike' but with cars and directX 906:26
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punkassits a lotta fun..people build there own tracks...then u can race multiplayer06:27
GOwini made an error in the certificate authority i generated with apache-ssl. how do i generate a new one?06:27
GOwinit's only for intranet use06:27
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ushoozlooks nice06:29
punkassyeah its pretty fun06:29
punkasssimple but fun ;)06:29
punkasscrimsun: you read Dive into Python?06:35
crimsuni have not06:36
crimsuni've mostly been using docs from the web06:36
crimsunWeb, sorry.06:36
punkassok..its got some good reviews on amazon06:36
punkassyeah same here..tho it is nice to a have a reference book around06:37
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mirak_well...i can get all the way to awaiting gamestate...then it crashes06:41
mirak_sometimes it starts to donload the paks06:41
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amrocholy crap06:42
amrocim on my laptop on ubuntu06:42
mirak_and if i try to host my own game, i say i cant write to (random file)06:42
mirak_amroc: congratz06:42
amroci just have a 1X1 inch of screen i cant see... its a box of random fuz and stuff06:42
amroclike a broken tv06:42
mirak_punkass: you still around???06:42
amroci may go out in a sec or two (depending of if my comp can handle it or not)06:43
ushoozis it your cursor amroc?06:43
amrocno, its just...ther06:43
mirak_ushooz: think you can help me out when you get a chance???06:43
ushoozin what reguard?06:44
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ushooznever played it06:44
mirak_ok then nvm06:44
mirak_thnx though06:44
mirak_this has got to be the nicest group of ppl ever06:44
mirak_is synaptek the only place i can go to see what apps are installed????06:45
ushoozin Ubuntu06:46
ushoozother than command line it is06:46
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mirak_what is the command?06:46
amrocok, two things failed on startup06:46
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amrocphiehp.ko and shpchp.ko06:47
amrocboth those failed06:47
amrocim asuming thats bad06:47
mirak_pshh.........no idea06:47
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baHamhow do I kill an app from his PID ?06:52
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jdubbaHam: kill PID06:53
baHamI meant06:53
baHamhow to see the pid06:53
Se7h"unsuficient memory to complete action"06:53
baHamof an app06:53
Se7hhow do i clean this?06:53
baHamSe7h, hi :)06:53
mirak_what is pid??06:53
baHamhow do I see the pids06:54
Se7hheu baHam06:54
baHamps aux ?06:54
jdubbaHam: ps afx06:54
Se7hbaHam ps ax06:54
jdubor aux or whatever06:54
Se7hhow do i clean memory ?06:54
Se7hi didn't want to reboot this06:55
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SmokingFireany audio knowledgeable people here?06:58
jdubask your question straight up :)06:58
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ushoozmirak_, sorry command line is dselect but I would stick with synaptic for you since you are new to the scene06:59
baHamubuntu pwns everybody and everything07:00
mirak_ushooz: i appreciate you looking out, but id reather get used to the command line, spceially just looking, instead of being afraid of it forever07:00
ushoozI agree07:01
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ushoozbut get used to the upper level stuff then drill down07:01
ushoozif you really want to learn then go command line only use mutt, links, dillo etc etc. You will learn quickly then :)07:02
ushoozbasicly go guiless :)07:03
deweysay is there a ttf file in ubuntu?07:04
deweyto install07:05
mirak_ushooz: lol, im not ready for all of that yet........but i know what you mean07:05
jdubdewey: almost all the fonts are ttf07:05
ushoozI am just poking fun... no hard feelings :)07:05
ushoozwould be quite the challenge07:05
mirak_ushooz: didnt think that at all, no way shape or form, just saying that i already dropped windows completely, been using linux for less than a month, so i want to go slow, but still get accuianted with the comand line07:06
dc|ubuntuhey, anybody remembers if there's a way to reload .Xdefaults without restartng X?07:07
ushoozglad to hear that07:07
deweyjdub: msft ttf?07:07
mirak_ishooz: im sure all *nix users are07:07
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jdubdewey: those should be in multiverse07:08
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dc|ubuntumirak_: if you want to drop windows in the real sense, you should try using ion as the window manager *wink*07:08
jdubdewey: but they can't be installed by default07:08
JanneMwhat is a good file to put config stuff in that you want to run during X startup? Right now I use .gnomerc07:08
dc|ubuntuJanneM: .xsession?07:08
ushoozdewey, there is a deb package that fires off a script uses cabextract and installs the msfonts for ya. The MS license does not allow them to be included by default07:08
mirak_dc|ubuntu: what is ion.....got a url with screenshots???07:08
dc|ubuntumirak_: yes, one sec07:08
JanneMdc|ubuntu: didn work07:09
deweyhmmm is there a deb program to install an rpm?07:09
dc|ubuntudewey: rpm?07:09
JanneMdewey: alien?07:09
JanneMdc|ubuntu: if you put stuff in .xsession, that's all it ends up running07:09
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dc|ubuntuJanneM: uhm, even if you run in bg?07:10
JanneMit runs through the commands in .xsession, then terminates the session since it returns07:10
JanneMthat's more for starting a separate enironment or WM kind of things 07:11
dc|ubuntumirak_: http://awkly.org/photos/screenshots/pytone.png07:12
deweyok I see alien so i will try it then :)07:12
mattyw24Hi: how does ubuntu compare to mepis: I have mepis now and can test it like Knoppix by booting to it, but unfortunately ubuntu 4.1 complained when I tried to install it over my mepis partition07:12
dc|ubuntuJanneM: i see, i just used it for running ssh-agent once, i though it would work for other stuff as well07:12
mirak_dc|ubuntu: thnx07:12
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ushoozawesome mp3blaster is being used07:12
ushoozI use that on my PS2 to play MP3s07:13
JanneMdc|ubuntu: yeah, I though it - or .xinitrc - would work, but neither does07:13
JanneM.xinitrc doesn't seem to be soruced at all07:13
mirak_dc|ubuntu: you are crazy, i wouldnt know what to do with my self, or my computer if i used that07:13
dc|ubuntumirak_: oh, i thought you were talking about using terminal-based stuff07:14
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dc|ubuntuhey hazmat07:15
mirak_dc|ubuntu: well yeah, but i asked if synaptic was the only way to see what apps are installed, ushooz said that or command line, but stick with synaptic, i said id rather try using the commad line for expierence, especially since im only looking, and cant break anything07:15
hazmathi dc|ubuntu07:16
hazmatdc|ubuntu, how goes it?07:16
mirak_dc|ubuntu: thank you though07:16
dc|ubuntuhazmat: fine, rather tired though07:16
dc|ubuntu2am here07:16
hazmati did some hacking on marshall earlier this week, refactored for pluggable namespaces, handler delegate to ns, ns to field07:16
dc|ubuntugreat! when are you checking it in?07:17
hazmatdc|ubuntu, i can relate, i haven't slept in 35hrs.07:17
hazmatdc|ubuntu, at the moment i've got in a project repo, i wanted to finish it off and make sure it passes the unit test before pushing back out to public07:17
dc|ubuntuyou are used to it though :)07:17
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hazmatdc|ubuntu, yeah.. its a way of life some months07:17
dc|ubuntuok, great. i would say if it passes tests just check it in07:18
hazmatdc|ubuntu, there's some questionable/implicit stuff going on though i wanted to query you about.. #archetypes ?07:18
hazmatdc|ubuntu, btw. did you let the canonical guys now about the txn issue/fix w/sqlos?07:19
hazmatdc|ubuntu, you running ubuntu on your powerbook now?07:19
hazmatno gnome?07:19
hazmatits done pretty well on my powerbook, haven't tried out the bluetooth stack yet though.07:20
mirak_hazmat: can i ask a question07:20
mirak_hazmat: isnt the *nix embedded into osX enough?07:21
dc|ubuntuhazmat: well, not really. its a mixed system right now. just added ubuntu to sources.list and updated07:21
dc|ubuntui've just installed gnome on the ibook though, to check it out07:21
dc|ubuntu2.8 is quite slick07:21
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dc|ubunturevlob_: sqlos, spiv should be watching the checkins07:22
hazmatmirak_, well there are a few things.. first, linux still feels more productive to me as a developer (although osx is quite nice w/ carbon emacs and launchbar), second, if i want the opensource desktop to get better i should be a participant and developer for it, third, there's a whole stack of tech thats just way exciting to play with like beagle and utopia.07:23
ushoozI am a fan of Mono and Mono apps07:24
hazmatdc|ubuntu, word, 2.8 is quite slick.. i'm really surprised though by the lack of a gui runlevel editor.. its in system-tools but it got yanked for ubuntu because of some minor issues.07:24
hazmater. from debian07:24
dc|ubuntui c07:24
joemit got yanked because it isn't really supported upstream anymore07:24
Keybuk*shrug* why do you need a gui runlevel editor?07:24
Keybukit isn't the kind of thing people who care about guis need to be able to do07:24
nateit's a very popular thing in the Red Hat world07:24
hazmatbecause ubuntu is trying hard to be a gui desktop..07:25
mirak_hazmat: thank you, all i can say really, answered every question i could possibly have07:25
dc|ubuntuhazmat: do you know of a good font for terminal? i was using artwiz-smooth, but i wanted a smaller one07:25
hazmati mean every part of the system is confiugrable via the gui07:25
=== dc|ubuntu takes a screenshot
baHamhey folks, I'm gon sleep07:25
deweydc|ubuntu: what ibook do you have and did you install ubuntu on it?07:25
baHamcu tomorrow 07:25
ushoozsee ya07:25
hazmatexcept the runlevel, packages, config, umounting, etc.07:25
Keybukhazmat: what is installed is configurable; trying to present a separate "installed but not activated" layer is confusing07:25
mirak_later baHam07:25
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dc|ubuntudewey: clamshell tangerine07:26
jdubtoilet seat!07:26
Keybukonly experts are ever going to care about the exact order of start-up and having installed but deactivated daemons07:26
dc|ubuntudewey: i have debian on it, just got gnome from ubuntu07:26
baHam\\offy0 mirak_ 07:26
mirak_oo i used to have one of those.........then it died07:26
dc|ubuntuyeah, toilet seat :)07:26
deweydc|ubuntu: hmmm ok07:26
Keybukand those are the kind of people any gui wouldn't satisfy, through inflexibility07:26
=== jdub has a green one :)
hazmatKeybuk, no its not, there are items like that in mac and windows, ie do you want to turn on sharing, do you want to ABC, etc. 07:26
mirak_baHam\\off: yes???07:26
=== dewey has an snow white ibook :)
Keybukhazmat: that's different though :o)07:26
hazmatits not confusing, its a hell of lot better then forcing people to do symlinks07:26
ushoozCalm shell iBooks remind me of gigantic womens compacts07:27
natethat's what I thought when I first met Ubuntu07:27
Keybukhazmat: you appear to be missing the point; I'm saying people don't need to do this *at all*07:27
mirak_keybuk: maybe he does07:27
hazmatwell you seem to have a very narrow definition of what people need to do07:27
nateI'm sure there are times you might want to stop a service without uninstalling it07:27
jdubushooz: gigantic cocaine stash.07:27
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Keybuknate: such as?07:28
attitudehi all07:28
nateDo that on Windows all the time.07:28
ushoozjdub, laugh07:28
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hazmatlike i want to turn off personal websharing07:28
Se7hhow do i clean memory ?07:28
jdubKeybuk: web developer using apache/database every now and then07:28
nateKeybuk: such as, you have a webserver installed and you suddenly decide you don't want to... right07:28
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hazmata common theme in both mac and windows service config options07:28
jdubKeybuk: they're limited, but they do exist07:28
jdub(still a rare/few case)07:28
hazmatKeybuk, then why should people even have a gui package manager, they don't need that ;-)07:28
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Keybukso, in that example, there would be a "personal web service" control somewhere that you could enable and disable07:29
Keybukhazmat: installing and updating software is a common activity07:29
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Keybukbut that would be part of the "personal web service" settings ... not a separate place to go and turn on/off everything07:29
KeybukI have a lightswitch in each room07:29
mirak_question.....apt-get update...apt-get upgrade work in ubuntu, right????07:29
Keybuknot a bank of lightswitches in a cupboard under the stairs07:29
crimsunmirak_: yes.07:29
hazmatsigh.. this is pointless, i'll agree to disagree07:29
nateKeybuk: why should there be a unique, incompatible, 'disable service' interface for every separate instance of a service? Why not just have a single unified enable/disable UI, ie, a runlevel editor?07:29
jdubKeybuk: that's right - but that takes into account the fact that it's done :)07:29
jdubnate: because it's not task focused07:30
mirak_crimsun: thnx...........with a sudo infront07:30
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nateI'm sorry, that's not an answer07:30
jdubsure it is07:30
natethen it's a bad answer07:30
Keybuknate: I want to turn off something, the first place I'll look is the configuration for that *something*07:30
natenot necessarily07:30
mirak_crimsun: is "sudo" the same thing as "su"?????07:30
jdubnate: we think in more abstract terms than most users07:30
crimsunmirak_: no. sudo is more powerful.07:30
crimsunmirak_: and imo, far preferrable to su07:31
jdubnate: so we understand the separate concept of daemons07:31
mirak_crimsun: similar..............like commands???07:31
nateThis is an attitude that bothers me about the whole direction Gnome is heading07:31
jdubnate: in general, we think about function first07:31
crimsunmirak_: you will need to read sudo's man page07:31
jdubnate: what, the fact that people are thinking very hard about real usability issues, instead of just serving up gulag? :)07:31
sepheebearwow that lightswitch argument was ingenius, but i can dig the other point of view07:31
aitrusdc|ubuntu: how can oy stand that font??07:31
mirak_crimsun: kk07:31
nateit appears to be getting rid of a lot of simple, universal concepts and trying to replace them with dozens of incompatible single-instance 'task-focused' equivalents which don't quite do the same thing07:31
JanneMnate: You may want to have an svn repository, and that is one task to turn on - but it involves getting both svn, apache and an apache plugin to run07:31
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dc|ubuntuaitrus: im used to it :)07:32
JanneMturn off the svn reopo involves turning off multiple things07:32
Keybuknate: ok, here's an example; let's create a fictional option "Should the desktop be managed by nautilus?"  do we put that in a) nautilus preferences or b) desktop preferences07:32
nategood point07:32
dc|ubuntuneed to find a smaller font for the terminal07:32
Se7hcannot read debian/control:07:32
dc|ubuntuartwiz-smooth is too big compared to the one im using in xchat ;)07:32
natethat would depend on whether you can swap out Nautilus for another file manager or not07:32
nateIt probably should be a setting that relates to the desktop as a whole, not to the file manager07:33
jdubnate: nup, it should work for both :-)07:33
natewhy duplicate a setting?07:33
jdubno duplicate07:33
attitudedoes anyone kow when mplpayer will be available for ubuntu07:33
mirak_Keybuk: would it be better, istead of arguing (debating, whatever) to give the user a choice, so everone is happy????07:33
Keybuknate: you misunderstand, jdub says it should work for nautilus and the possible replacement filemanager07:33
Keybukmirak_: nope.07:33
Keybukchoice confuses novice users07:33
Keybukput it in the first place they'll look, and you don't need a choice07:33
aitrusKeybuk: spoken like a true gnome developer...07:33
jdubnate: this is the same as the workspaces settings in gnome - it works for multiple window managers07:33
mirak_but if i use default, then i am fine, but if you want to change, that option is available07:34
nateand lack of choice frustrates advanced users, but novice users eventually become advanced users and advanced users don't become novices again07:34
jdubKeybuk: (choice is not relevant here)07:34
deweyattitude: I installed mplayer from source and it works great.07:34
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jdubignore the choice comment, it's not relevant07:34
mirak_i agrre with nate07:34
mirak_very relevent07:34
nateso, do you really want to attract a lot of users and then start gradually making them more and more annoyed? Because that's what I think the current Gnome UI philosophy is at risk of doing07:34
jdubmirak_: not to the topic of discussion07:35
nateokay if you just want to grow the pool of Linux users, but not if you want to grow the pool of Gnome users07:35
jdubnate: that's not what is happening07:35
hazmatlets stick everything in gconf, and remove gconf-editor ;-)07:35
attitudedewey: I just wanted to apt-get it07:35
jdubgnome is gaining more users because it's so straightforward to use07:35
Keybukit's interesting, as an advanced user I actually prefer GNOME because it, on the whole, does what I mean and stays out of the way07:35
natefor example, it really really annoys me that to get a box in the GTK file-open dialog where I can type in a file name, I have to go Ctrl-L to bring up a magic hidden option07:35
jdubfor the same reasons OS X is07:35
ushoozI prefer Gnome because they seem to emulate OSX which is my main OS07:35
ushoozKDE is not bad though07:36
nateand then navigate using a weird control whose semantics are different from anything anywhere else07:36
daniels(for what it's worth, I used to hack on another desktop environment, and since coming across to GNOME, I find its straight-forward clarity and the fact it stays out of my way utter bliss)07:36
deweyattitude: it worked for me and I have dvds to play :)07:36
nateI want a small set of simple semantics that are used everywhere07:36
mirak_i happen to like gnome, i jsut started using it today, much better than kde, but i am stuck with what it defaults too, because i have no other choice, but if i was given a choice, i prob wouldnt know, so i would be fine, but an advanced user would know, and can make that choice07:36
jdubnate: yes, that is a whole different (and interesting) discussion in itself (re: ctrl-l in filechooser)07:36
=== bluefoxicy waves to daniels
jdubmirak_: the objective is to make it 'just work', so you don't have to frig around :)07:36
JanneMmirak_: but !advanced" users are able to tweak a lo of stuff07:36
jdubmirak_: which is one of the reasons why a lot of "advanced" users are using OS X and GNOME07:37
nateI like a lot of what Gnome does, but I feel quite claustrophobic in many of the configuration dialogs07:37
JanneMmirak_: it's just that those choices and tweaks should not be apparent to the casual user07:37
tolle_I find it funny that so many "Advanced" users wants all their options in menus, and not in gconf and stuff like that.07:37
jdubnate: so if you find a behaviour that is incorrect, it should be dealt with07:37
ushoozI play on Linux with Gnome and KDE when I want to just get work done and for the machine to just work without me thinking about it I use OSX07:37
jdubnate: that's how these things are approached -> blindly adding options is not the way to make things 'just work'07:38
natejdub: The problem is that I keep feeling that the things I think are incorrect are actually 'correct' according to the HIG, and that bothers me07:38
=== dc|ubuntu uses ion so he doesn't have to think about dragging windows around
Keybuknate: what kind of thing do you think is incorrect?07:38
JanneMnate: but then perhaps the HIG has a bug07:38
jdubnate: the hig might be wrong - what is incorrect?07:38
mirak_wow, flame me...........jj...........i guess i just dont know enough about the linux world to include myself in a discussion like this, all i was trying to say was im fine with it the way it is, but if i decide i want to change later, i would like that option available to me07:38
nateKeybuk: Not having a name-entry box on the file open dialog, for one07:38
nateI don't care if that's how OSX does it. OSX is wrong, IMO07:38
JanneMmirak_: this is a long-standing discussion :)07:38
JanneMmirak_: don't worry07:38
nateone should never be forced to use the mouse where one can use the keyboard07:39
joemall of this is pretty subjective07:39
Keybuknate: that's not an HIG-specified thing ... there is a lot of debate about *that* one07:39
nateoh good07:39
JanneMnate: ctrl-L07:39
jdubmirak_: there are lots of options available to you :)07:39
natethen there's hope it will get fixed07:39
joemthere is no set right and wrong for where buttons go07:39
JanneMnate: but perhaps it should be open by default07:39
jdubjoem: there are objective reasons for that.07:39
mirak_jdub: i just meant on this particular topic07:39
KeybukCtrl-L is at least consistent with both the file manager and web browser07:39
mirak_i understand both points i guees07:39
joemjdub, I agree, Im just saying that because you don't like something the hig does, doesn't really make either of you wrong07:39
jdubmirak_: the topic is quite general. which option are you talking about?07:40
JanneMnate: but the right way to go about is to determine which is right and stick with it, not paper over it with another option07:40
mirak_i was just trying to add a n00b point of view to the matter07:40
nateunless it's something that needs to be configurable at runtime07:40
bluefoxicyis this a squashfs bug. . . 07:40
nateI should go hunt for the new MIME properties panel, see what I think of it07:40
jdubnate: if it *needs* to be configurable at runtime, that implies that there is no 'just works' right way to do it07:40
nateI don't think I've managed to find it yet07:40
natejdub: Correct. Some things should be left up to the user.07:41
joemnate, good luck finding that one :)07:41
JanneMnate: absolutely. But options is like packing - you should add only what you absolutely need, not remove stuff you absolutely don't07:41
Keybuknate: heh; that's actually quite a nice example07:41
Keybukit's real easy to specify an alternate program to open a particular file07:41
Keybukbut I bet you do it without thinking about it, or being able to find the "MIME Properties" dialog :p07:41
nateThe way Windows does it works reasonably well for me07:41
jdubnate: i agree - things that are actually preferential should be left up to the user. but there are different definitions of that (which ends up getting quite scientific and technical, not 'but i want it!')07:42
nateRight now, I want to know if I have any support for video formats installed07:42
nateHow would I do that?07:42
ushooznate: but you are and advanced user and understand mime types. I shudder at the thought of the masses mucking up their mime types on Windows if the knew were to go poking around07:42
nateMy first thought was to go to Computer | Desktop Configuration and look for a 'File Types' applet07:42
Keybuknate: you didn't think to double click on a video file and see what happened?07:42
natekeybuk: Hell no. Why would I want to *execute* a random file without knowing what it does?07:43
joemmost users only want to know if they have support for something when trying to use it07:43
nateI want to do a non-dangerous operation to *ask* my system what it will do, before I attempt to do it07:43
joemnate, you can click on the file and see its mime type07:43
natethat's just common sense07:43
nateBut I don't have any video files07:43
joemer right click/properties07:43
JanneMor right click/open with07:44
nateSee, I want to know what support for video files I have, so I know what types I can download...07:44
joemthen why do you care if you have support for them(being an average user)07:44
nateHow do I do that?07:44
nateBecause I want to know07:44
joemheh, its hard to think like the basic user when you aren't one07:44
JanneMyou have to make totemreport it somehow I guess07:44
nateHow do I know 'totem' is my video player?07:44
nateI don't know that07:44
crimsunit says in the menu under Multimedia07:45
joemit says "totem movie player"07:45
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nateI want to go browse through my list of supported file types, see what they are and what the handler programs are.07:45
Se7hit was about time to create a deb package with j2re, no ?07:45
ushoozcause it says Totem Movie Player in the menus :)07:45
nateAnd no, I don't want to go through a 'multimedia' applet. I want to know what is on my system.07:45
Keybuknate: the interesting thing about your point here is that you're taking a "novice" stance from an already advanced position07:45
ushooznate you are making some good points07:45
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jdubnate: read this: http://www.gnome.org/~jrb/files/mime/07:45
nateWindows has the 'add/remove programs' screen, which is okay, but it sucks for finding out what browser plugins one has07:45
Keybuknate: we're getting something like that for hoary07:46
natethis is what I mean about making things too task-based07:46
nateThere should be provision for the user being able to think ahead a bit07:46
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nateYou don't want to be in the position of having to make decisions while you are in the middle of an action, or even worse, to have to trigger a large action just to change a configuration setting07:47
nateMicrosoft Access is a classic case of this. You can't change the location of where you load database files from, until you have already loaded a database07:47
natebecause the 'Tools/Options' menu is greyed out until you have an active db07:47
Keybukheh, that's just bad UI07:48
joemwhich example does that apply to regarding gnome?07:48
natewell, yes07:48
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nateit amazes me that they never fixed it07:48
nateso, um07:48
nateis there a centralised file-association viewer?07:48
Keybukthe interesting thing about your video argument is that there would be no danger of double-clicking on the file to see what it did, because you never made it explicitly executable07:48
nateplease do not make that assumption07:49
natesay I am in an office07:49
joemplus if you click a file with no application associated to the mime type, it wont load07:49
nateI do not want to accidentally play a video07:49
natebecause it might make noise, flash a pornographic image on the screen, anything07:49
Keybuknovice users don't understand the concept of file types07:49
nateyou gotta be kidding07:49
Keybukthey think in grand terms like "document", "video file"07:49
nateright. Those are file types.07:49
crimsuna novice user wouldn't notice that a video file has say, a film strip icon?07:50
Keybukso if you right click on a video file, and it tells you "Open with Totem Media Player"07:50
nateI don't think I've met any user who doesn't know that files come in different types.07:50
joemthe video file would have some sort of video icon07:50
joemso if a user clicks on it, they should expect a video07:50
joemnate, there are _lots_ of users07:50
Keybukcrimsun: actually, video files have a random frame from them as the icon :)07:50
natePerhaps what I am saying is that it is foolish to think only of the very very very new user07:50
crimsunKeybuk: ah, ok. :)07:51
nateif you do not also think of the new-user-after-six-months07:51
bluefoxicyit's good to be in DC, Hooray!  Hooray!  With oil funds, ketchup, cute buns, that's how we got to DC 07:51
joemnate, if it works for the very...new user, it can work for anybody beyond that07:51
natethat does not follow07:51
JanneMwith some caveats, yes07:51
joemhow so07:51
jdubnate: that's not what gnome does.07:51
natebecause I am trying to do something right now07:51
jdubnate: that's not what ubuntu does.07:51
nateand you are telling me 'you don't want to do that'07:51
Keybuknate: actually, I do think that the new MIME system needs a *little* more work ... it'd be nice if the "Open with" dialog looked more like the Run Application dialog and gave you a choice of existing installed applications07:51
natebut I do07:51
joemyou want to find out if an application is associated with a mime file correct?07:52
jdubthere's also a mime-manager app being worked on07:52
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natewho are you to tell me what it is that I want to do with my system? I think I understand enough of my needs to know that I do in fact want to do it. And it is not a very complicated thing07:52
jdubwhich lets people who really really care about the innards of their mime system tweak as much as they want07:52
nateI want to know 'what software is installed on my machine, and what file types can I currently handle'07:52
Keybukand then if you clicked on an application in Run Application, Open With (or "Installed Applications") it gave you a description of it and what kinds of files it knew it could handle07:52
jdubnate: look forward to the mime manager07:52
jdubnate: we're not saying you don't want to do it, we're saying it's an uncommon requirement07:53
Keybukif it were a common requirement, some advanced user would have written and finished the appropriate software by now :o)07:53
natejdub: Oh, the MIME manager isn't implemented yet? Oh good then. I thought it had already been settled and this was as good as it got.07:53
Se7hj2re-1_4_2_05-linux-i586.bin: line 363: ./install.sfx.11628: Permission denied07:53
jdubnate: remember, anyone on irc or mailing lists is representative of about 1% of the user population we're aiming for07:53
jdubnate: it is not 'in gnome'07:53
natejdub: So in other words, GNOME is shooting for a demographic they know nothing about?07:53
jdubnate: it's just something being worked on07:53
jdubnate: no.07:54
Keybuknate: nothing is *ever* settled :o)  new ideas come up all the time; as long as people are willing to develop (not even necessarily the original people) things get improved07:54
nateinstead of the one they do?07:54
crimsunnate: and what would you do say, 1 year down the road when you drop something in ~/ that doesn't register as a mime-type handler? how then? See, this problem is larger than what _can_ be handled.07:54
natecrimsun: er?07:54
jdubnate: that's a bong argument, when faced with usability experts, testing, etc., etc.07:54
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jdubnate: the goal is 'greatest common factor' not 'lowest common denominator'07:55
crimsunnate: "what software is installed on my machine, and what file types can I currently handl"07:55
jdubdon't be confused by that07:55
natecrimsun: I am trying to do a perfectly simple task that I can already do in Windows. I am asking why Gnome can't/won't let me do it.07:55
nateI am feeling like the machine is hiding things from me07:55
jedix"Hoary Hedgehog will use the X.org server instead" when is this due out?07:55
nateit is making me feel paranoid07:55
crimsunjedix: 6 months.07:56
joemit isn't hiding things, there just hasn't been an app writen to give you a nice interface for it yet07:56
joemif you wan07:56
jdubonly one cure -> get off the weed07:56
Keybuknate: it's actually a relatively uncommon advanced difficult task ... and the answer why you can't do it is because the MIME system is new in this release and the more advanced views on it aren't finished yet07:56
joemt to look around in /usr/share/applications or in some of the mime folders then go ahead07:56
jdubnate: you can diddle with the files directly, nothing is hidden07:56
crimsunjedix: there will shortly (3 months?) be pre-packages of X.Org07:56
attitudeCool automount works with my usb drive07:56
nateit's just that I am wondering why it's seen as not a priority to give GUI visibility of the underlying system, I guess.07:56
Keybukif things really upset advanced users by their lack, the software appears pretty quickly as the pissed-off advanced user writes it themselves07:57
nateit's a philosophy I don't really understand and don't feel entirely comfortable with07:57
Keybukthat's how open source works! :)07:57
joembecause again, it isn't a common task that most people need07:57
jdubnate: because to real users, the mechanics don't matter07:57
Keybuknate: because most people don't actually care about it07:57
sparkxhas anyone seen anything on enabling airport extreme cards?07:57
KeybukI tend to care about what app loads which file when I get the wrong one (shakes his fist at screem for stealing all the mime types)07:58
Keybukand I certainly don't classify myself as a novice user07:58
nateI guess I question that assumption07:58
natesince I seem to be a data point opposed to it07:58
nateI keep trying to do things and running into blank walls in GNOME07:58
mojohi all07:58
mojowill Helix Player be shipped in next release??07:59
ushoozsparkx, do not believe it a driver has been written. Apples partner is not being kind in sharing specs or writing one themselves07:59
joema quick grep of this chans log shows most of the conversation relating to mime types being this one07:59
joemso it really isn't a common concern07:59
Keybuknate: they're not walls, they're just empty spaces07:59
natekeybuk: But they'07:59
Keybukthere's no "we'll deliberately stop users doing that" decision07:59
nateBut they're things that were already there in GNOME 1.408:00
natethat's what bugs me08:00
natethings have been taken OUT, or so it feels08:00
Keybukyeah, uh, bringing GNOME 1.4 on your side is not a good argument place to be08:00
nateI'm just saying08:00
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natein some ways GNOME 2.x feels worse than GNOME 1.4, for the kind of tasks I am trying to do08:00
Keybukthink of 1.4 and the 2.x series as entirely different desktop environments08:00
natethe feel is entirely different08:00
jdubnate: dude, the answer is simple -> use KDE08:01
Keybukah, but the tasks you are trying to do are unusual08:01
natejdub: I am trying very hard not to come to that conclusion, yes08:01
joemnate, why not08:01
jdubnate: if, for whatever reason, the level of mechanics in gnome does not satisfy you, there is another project that writes software along those lines08:01
joemit seems to do more of what you want08:01
nateBecause I like, or I thought I used to like, the general philosophy of GNOME better than KDE08:01
natewhich used to be 'you can do anything you want, we won't lock you into one way of doing it'08:01
natebut that seems to have changed with 2.x08:02
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nateI like some of the technology of GNOME better than that of KDE08:02
joemnate, you can do anything you want doesn't mean that people are going to be fancy interfaces to every part of the system08:02
nateI disagree08:02
natethe old philosophy of GNOME used to be that the UI would be configurable08:02
jdubso make those tools08:02
jduband use them08:02
joemthen by all means work on a tool to do it08:03
natenow it seems to be that configurability is bad08:03
jduband give them to others who care08:03
jdubno ude08:03
jdubno dude08:03
natejoem: but will it be accepted by the community, is what I'm asking? Or will it be seen as violating the HIG?08:03
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hazmatkde is a very nice project, just a horrible ui unfortunately08:03
jdubnate: http://www106.pair.com/rhp/free-software-ui.html08:03
jdubnate: read that08:03
jdubit's nothing to do with the HIG08:03
Keybukconfigurability isn't bad, but if you're forcing a user to have to configure something it's worth wondering whether you got the UI wrong in the first place08:03
nateI guess I'm saying, if the consensus of GNOME is that people should not want to modify it, then maybe I would be impolite if I wrote a tool that did08:03
jdubthe hig provides hints and tips and guidelines for where your pixels go08:03
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jdubit doesn't define usability or goals08:04
miked593how do i make fluxbox run in ubuntu i downloaded the source and compiled it08:04
joemnate, it isn't a hig issue(the interface to the app would be), its an issue of the tool not being a common requirement08:04
hazmatKeybuk, whoa configurable does not mean its not useable out of the box08:04
Keybuk(if you think about that, you'll realise that what it actually *means* is that both users shouldn't need to configure something -- not just that the option should be the other way round)08:04
joemand the people writing such tools feel there time is better spent on other things. Though as mentioned, somebody is working on a mime tool08:04
rexiboyanyone got gdesklet running?08:04
Keybukhazmat: <Keybuk> configurability isn't bad08:05
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amrocim trying this for a sec, if i leave i give up for now08:05
miked593and how do i get ubuntu to start up in runlevel 308:05
amroci still have the box, (i re-installed)08:05
Keybukmiked593: edit /etc/inittab ... why do you want to?08:05
amroclets see how long it takes for me to lose the ability to do any thing08:06
miked593i want fluxbox to work im confused08:06
nateso, um08:06
natewhere is the discussion on these kind of issues happening?08:06
Keybukmiked593: there is no difference between runlevels 2, 3 and 4 in Ubuntu08:06
joemmiked593, can you run fluxbox --replace08:06
Keybukmiked593: you installed fluxbox and you want to use it *instead* of GNOME, or just instead of metacity?08:06
miked593instead of gnome08:06
Keybuknate: which kind?08:07
natekeybuk: On which things should be / should not be in the default configuration of the UI08:07
amrocwow, i have kept connectivity for a while now08:07
Keybukmiked593: put "fluxbox" in a file in your home directory called ".xinitrc"08:07
hazmathow do you get more than 4 virtual desktops?08:07
Keybuk(probably "exec fluxbox" to be fair)08:07
Keybukhazmat: right-click the pager, Preferences, and change the number of desktops)08:07
amrocI THINK I FIXED IT!08:07
amroci still get the occasional lil line, but that is fine aslong as i can stay on the comp08:08
hazmatKeybuk, doesn't affect anything unfortunately08:08
Keybuknate: there isn't any particular ongoing discussion, it's something everying decides for themselves08:08
miked593cool i'll give that a try thanks08:08
rexiboyanyone got gdesklet running?08:08
Keybukhazmat: you're running metacity?08:08
hazmatie. decreaseing or increasing the number does not change the number of desktops08:08
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rexiboywhere can i get a list for my source?08:09
Keybukthat's odd, try "metacity-message --restart" and see if it works after your windows stop dancing :)08:09
natePresumably, though, there's a general GNOME consensus, a Debian consensus, and a Ubuntu consensus, at least08:09
hazmatKeybuk, yup that did it, thanks08:10
Keybukjdub: *sigh* that's yet another example of the gconf voodoo going astray then08:10
Keybukhazmat: out of interest, have you done an upgrade recently and not logged out/rebooted since ?08:10
nateso, um08:11
wm_eddieAny python people around?08:11
hazmatwm_eddie, yes08:11
natewhere *does* one find the MIME database in GNOME, since I'll have to go hack text files to find out what I'm running?08:11
wm_eddieDoes the default ubuntu install have xml.dom?08:11
hazmatnate, i went looking for stuff like that... news.gmane.org search for gnome lists08:11
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nateor is it somewhere in gconf?08:12
hazmatwm_eddie, yes08:12
Keybuknate: /usr/share/applications ... the .desktop files of installed applications say what MIME types they can support08:12
joemthere are all the gnome lists08:12
miked593i added "exec fluxbox" to .xinitrc and rebooted and im still in gnome08:12
hazmatwm_eddie, its got a kitchensink of python modules08:12
wm_eddieNow I'm really confused...08:12
Keybuknate: read the freedesktop.org MIME spec08:12
wm_eddieeddie@Praia:~/Projects/Python/pyfolder $ pydoc xml08:12
wm_eddieproblem in ./xml.pyc - ImportError: No module named dom08:12
wm_eddieI keep getting that error.08:12
Keybukwm_eddie: got python-xml installed ?08:12
hazmatwm_eddie works for me08:12
Keybuknate: http://www.freedesktop.org/Standards/mime-actions-spec08:12
natekeybuk: thanks08:13
hazmatwm_eddie, what happens when you do it from interpreter .. ie from xml import dom08:13
wm_eddieapt-get install python-xml says it's already installed.08:13
wm_eddiehazmat: same error, no module named dom08:13
Keybukwm_eddie: uhhhh... that says ./xml.pyc08:13
Keybuktry it from a different directory08:13
hazmatwm_eddie, what does import xml ; print xml.__version__ say 08:13
hazmatoh yeah08:13
wm_eddieok I didn't know that...08:14
miked593does anyone know how i can get fluxbox to run08:14
nateaha, so it's all done in the .desktop files?08:14
hazmatyeah you don't want to be in that directory you can use pydoc from anywhere.. if you do it in the local directory from the module it will get confused08:14
Keybukmiked593: gah, my bad, .xsession not .xinitrc -- sorry08:14
Keybuk(just copy or symlink the file)08:14
joemnate, application association is done via the desktop files yea08:14
hazmatesp. with the xml module which does a bit of monkey patching to install the python-xml package into the same package namesapce08:14
miked593oh ok cool08:14
natewhere do .desktops for the system live?08:14
Keybuknate: /usr/share/applications08:14
Keybukyour customisations are in ~/.local/share/applications08:15
nate.local? not .gnome or .gnome2?08:15
Keybukit's a freedesktop.org specification08:15
Keybukit means the behaviour should be shared between all desktop environments, not just GNOME08:16
nateokay, here's a classic problem08:16
nateI'm looking at the applications folder08:16
Keybukif you wanted to write a GNOME-specific application, look at the GnomeVFS MIME Registry documentation08:16
natenow I want to open the .desktop file08:16
nateI guess I can't do that from the GUI at all08:16
Keybuknate: right-click, Open With, choose something like gedit08:16
joemright click open with gedit08:17
joemdamn, to slow tonight08:17
nateIt doesn't show Open With on the context menu08:17
natethat's what's confusing me08:17
Keybukand you've discovered a nice bug08:17
nateoh, that is a bug?08:17
nateoh good08:17
nateI wasn't sure if it was a feature or not08:17
Keybukopen gedit from the applications menu, and drag the files on to them08:17
natehmm, weird08:18
nateOn the 'Properties' 'Open With' tab it clearly shows Text Editor08:18
Keybuk.desktop files are launchers, so they're special08:18
nateyeah, I figured08:18
natestill... you'd think there could be a default action, plus alternate actions08:18
nateLaunch and Edit08:18
Keybukthat's the bug08:19
Keybukor possibly just an annoying anti-feature08:19
Keybuknormally there are08:19
nateyay, drag-n-drop works08:19
nateI hardly ever use it08:19
Keybuk(you can have as many associations as you like, the default appears at the top, the rest below it)08:19
natethat's nice08:19
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nateso I take it there is no such thing as a central MIME database in GNOME?08:21
natejust the sum of all .desktop files?08:21
Skifum, I just tried to file a bug on kernel-image-, and it came up with "Assign To:" undefined.08:22
nateor is there somewhere else I would have to read as well to find out what filetypes my system currently supports?08:22
Skifwhat should I put there?08:22
joemthere are different parts of the whole mime thing, .desktop files only tell the system what applications are associated with what mime types08:22
nateyeah, that's what I figured08:22
SkifIn all fairness, I don't know that it's a kernel bug, but it's the best guess I have now. :(08:22
Keybuknate: you'll definitely have more luck reading the GnomeVFS API docs08:23
Keybukit does the hard work for you08:23
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nateso the MIME XML files tell me what types exist, and the .desktops tell me what apps open them...08:24
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pixelmonkeyanyone here getting annoyed by how vim, for some reason, hits enter automatically after each word when entering c-style comments?08:25
Skifcan anybody help me with what address to put in the "assign to" field for kernel-image-
KeybukSkif: leave it blank, it'll do it for you?08:26
Skifkeybuk: okay; it came up with "undefined" by default, I figured it was a bugzilla bug :-\08:26
Keybukhmm... could be08:27
=== Skif files that one, too :)
Keybukheh, they're all coming up undefined today08:28
Skifso this is part of your "get people into the community" deal, right?  You can't file 'em in bugzilla, so we all have to come on IRC? :)08:28
natehey, if it works...08:29
hazmatnate, you might be interested http://www.goneme.org/index_goals.html08:30
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Keybukahh, goneme08:33
joemoh dear08:33
hazmati disagree with about half the goals stated, but there are some valid points imo08:34
Keybukthe funny thing is half of those are upstream goals too08:34
Lathiat"It makes no difference what usability studies say about new users...."08:35
Lathiatso naive08:35
rexiboycan someone point me in the right direction for source list?08:35
Keybukrexiboy: what kind of source list?08:35
rexiboyI want gdesklet and can't find it on mine08:35
rexiboyanyone got gdesklet running?08:36
Keybukrexiboy: Computer -> System Configuration -> Synaptic Package Manager ... Settings -> Repositories ... click the "warty" distribution and make sure the "universe" section is listed08:36
Keybukif not, add it to the list of them08:36
Keybuk"The GNOME Project has become a meritocracy. We believe the advantages gained by such a structure are far outweighed by the complete lack of balance. It probably is the best way to develop a business desktop, but established users are left out."08:37
Lathiattseng: Heh, as his blog says, tomboy didnt crash on the second start :)08:37
hazmati'm just curious are there folks who prefer spatial nautilus?08:41
joemI do08:41
Lathiatas do i08:41
danielsif everyone hated it, then it probably wouldn't be the default08:42
joemI am not a huge fan of new windows, but have one click opening, and browse with the middle button most of the time08:42
Keybukhazmat: there was a wonderful moment at GUADEC this year08:42
nateheh, Goneme08:42
nateI've read that08:42
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Keybukcampd ran out of steam in his talk, and opened up to the room and asked if there were any questions?08:43
Keybuksomeone heckled "does anybody actually like spatial nautilus?"08:43
nateI agree with some of his ideas, but Worst. Project name. Ever.08:43
Keybuka vote was taken08:43
Keybukmost of the hall put their hands up and admitted they preferred it now08:43
nateI don't mind spatial Nautilus, since I can bypass it08:43
=== Keybuk has found that I actually *use* Nautilus now
nateI just wish 'spatial mode' and 'browse mode' were the same, and the various widgets were configurable08:44
nateI don't like having two separate modes08:44
Keybuknate: hmm?  they are roughly?08:44
joemKeybuk, yea, thats a good point. I never really felt that nautilus was useable until 2.608:44
Lathiatou can bypass spatial mode08:44
Lathiatits an option08:45
joemor rather, just never used it08:45
LathiatDesktop Preferences -> File Management -> Behavior -> Always Open in Browser Window08:45
nateKeybuk: Like Windows Explorer. It does spatial, and it does browsing, or it can do a kind of mix of both. You can customise it on a per-folder basis. That's pretty much nirvana for me.08:45
KeybukI've tended to find that everyone really reacts badly to spatial mode when it first comes along, and then after a while shyly admits they find nautilus more useful now and that maybe they overreacted a little08:45
Keybuknate: Windows Explorer *doesn't* do spatial08:45
Keybuknever has08:45
natePeople keep saying that08:45
deweyallright it worked alien installed an rpm kewl :)08:45
joembecause its true08:46
LathiatI'm *positive* it did that in win95...08:46
Keybukspaital is a very specific thing, it isn't just "open new windows"08:46
natethat's what it always did08:46
Lathiatwell not "spatial" mode as such, yeh08:46
nateI'm sure it remembers window size and position for each folder08:46
joemLathiat, in 95 it just opened browser mode in new windows..not exactly spatial08:46
nateit's just not a terribly useful mode to use it in08:46
joemfrom what I remember anyways08:46
Keybuknate: you could open the same folder twice08:46
nateso most people after a few moments figure out how to turn on browser view, and then are happy08:46
Keybukit also only remembered the positions of about 10 folders08:47
Keybukand didn't remember things like how far down them you scrolled08:47
natething is, I don't actually *want* my file manager remembering the position of my windows08:47
natethat's like the Mac interface again08:47
nateI don't like that08:47
nateI spend far too much time manually resizing and dragging windows each time I want to do something different with them08:47
Keybuknate: Edit -> Preferences; Behaviour tab, "Always open in browser windows"08:47
jdubyeah, no point letting the computer provide ergonimic benefits for you08:48
natejdub: it's not a benefit to me, is what I'm saying08:48
Keybukspatial harnesses kinaesthetic memory08:48
nateit's a disbenefit08:48
Keybukthe same bit of you memory that remembers emacs keystrokes08:48
nateso people keep saying08:48
nateand I don't understand why, because it's not true08:48
Keybukyou open a folder, and your eyes automatically move to where it belongs08:48
attitudequestion. Is there a way I can play quicktime movies in ubuntu08:48
nateI usually open all my windows fullscreen08:48
joemattitude, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats?action=highlight&value=w3208:48
Keybukthen browse mode is for you08:49
nateyes, but there's a number of things it does that I find ugly08:49
jdubnate: er, it is true, but you may have a different preference.08:49
nateand I would rather have just one mode that could be customise08:49
natelike the side pane08:49
joemyou can turn that off08:49
nateand like the buttons being huge08:49
rexiboygnome question: how do i stop these annoying windows everytime i open a folder? just want it to open in the same folder...08:49
Keybukbrowse and spatial mode *can't* be duality ... the window would have to jump and dance around the screen as you used it08:49
Keybukit would be UI hell08:49
Keybukrexiboy: Edit -> Preferences; Behaviour tab, "Always open in browser windows"08:50
nateI would like the button bar to be minimisable, and even possibly hidable08:50
rexiboythanks :)08:50
natethen I could have the equivalent of 'open in same window' which I find quite a natural browsing style08:50
=== SuperL4g [~aaron@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu
rexiboylife is better!08:51
joemthe button bar doesn't seem very large to me08:51
joembut I don't have it show text, which makes it quite a bit smaller08:51
natelet me try that then08:51
Keybuknate: gconf, /apps/nautilus/preferences ... turn off start_with_*08:51
SuperL4gtseng: yo08:52
natehow do I turn off text on toolbar?08:53
natecan't seem to find it in gconf08:54
joemcomputer-desktop prefs-toolbar08:54
Keybuknate: Computer -> Desktop Preferences -> Menus and Toolbars08:54
natewhy isn't that in Preferences for a Nautilus window?08:55
Keybukbecause it's a desktop-wide preference08:55
nateit's a Nautilus pref isn't it?08:55
joemit is a global toolbars pref08:55
nateI don't want to do it for all toolbars08:55
natejust for Nautilus08:55
Keybukthere's a secret magic way to customise each app to the way you like it08:55
Keybukso you can change things like that08:55
SuperL4gis there only one apt mirror for Ubuntu, or can I add more than one to sources.list?08:55
nateoh good. How?08:56
Keybukand change the defaults, and the way it works08:56
Keybukapt-get source nautilus08:56
Keybukbecause no UI is going to be any easier to use08:56
nateguess I don't need this Ubuntu thing anymore. :)08:56
nateKeybuk: er. Windows' UI is easier. :)08:56
Keybuk*chokes on his tea*08:56
natethis is why I gripe. Because these problems have been fixed elsewhere.08:56
=== helix fans Keybuk
nateso they can't be *that* hard08:56
nateI mean, even Microsoft can do it08:57
Keybukone of the biggest gripes most people have about Windows is you have to do things like customise the toolbar appearance for *every*single*app* in a different dialog08:57
joemnate, more people see this as the right thing to do then wrong08:57
nateso, have a global setting and a per-app setting, and allow one to override the other. What's wrong with that?08:57
Keybukdude, KDE, seriously08:57
Keybukthey have a search box on their preferences dialog08:57
nateI so don't want to go there08:57
joemwhy not08:57
joemthey have lots of options that you are looking for08:58
natebecause I thought GNOME's component framework was more open-ended08:58
nateand that GNOME would be the desktop that would win08:58
Keybukso you make one app work differently from the rest ... and that's *good* ?!08:58
Keybukit's not about winning08:58
nateI hope not08:58
nateas long as freedesktop.org is working, which it seems to be, the two will get closer together08:59
KeybukGNOME isn't about beating KDE, it's just about writing a desktop environment some people might like08:59
Keybukand those that don't like it can use the other desktop environments that are more suited to their tastes08:59
Keybukdo one thing, and do it well08:59
Keybuknot do everything, just to get that one extra user08:59
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nateThing is, I originally went with GNOME over KDE not because it looked better - KDE looked and felt better - but because I thought GNOME was going about things in a more modular, configurable way08:59
KeybukI get asked a huge amount why I don't make it easier in Debian for people to build the system from source "like Gentoo"09:00
natewereas KDE had that huge monolithic Qt library that everything hung off of09:00
Keybukmy reply is that if people want to build their system from source, they should *use* Gentoo09:00
Keybukhrm, Qt is to KDE as GTK+ is to GNOME09:00
Keybukit's just the X toolkit underneath09:00
nateonly, Qt has all sorts of other stuff it int09:00
SuperL4gI use Gentoo.  But I get exasperated at times.09:00
joemnot quite..09:00
natelike database connectors and things09:00
SuperL4gUbuntu ROCKS.09:00
SuperL4gas does Gentoo.09:00
LathiatKeybuk: mostly09:00
SuperL4geach in their own place :)09:01
joemqt is to kde as gtk glib etc... are to gnome09:01
nateI liked the way GNOME split those out into separate libraries which could be reused elsewhere09:01
Lathiatits great having glib separate from the graphcis stuff09:01
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nateGObject is very cool09:01
KeybukI think that's more a side-effect of GTK+ existing before GNOME, than anything else09:01
joefalwhen i try to compile this program i get this error09:01
joefal#include <GL/gl.h>09:01
joefal#include <GL/glu.h>09:01
joefal#include "aux.h"09:01
joefalvoid display (void)09:01
joefal    glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT);09:02
Keybukthere's certainly a move at the moment to kill libgnomeui and libgnome and fold that functionality into GTK+ where it belonged in the first place, for eaxmple09:02
joefal    glColor3f (1.0, 1.0, 1.0);09:02
joefal    glLoadIdentity ();             /* clear the matrix */09:02
joefal    glTranslatef (0.0, 0.0, -5.0); /* viewing transformation */09:02
joefal    glScalef (1.0, 2.0, 1.0);      /* modeling transformation */09:02
joefal    auxWireCube(1.0);    /*  draw the cube */09:02
Keybuk(but not things like database stuff, which don't belong there09:02
joefal    glFlush();09:02
joemjoefal, not the place09:02
joefalvoid myinit (void) 09:02
=== mode/#ubuntu [+o Keybuk] by ChanServ
joefal    glShadeModel (GL_FLAT);09:02
=== joefal was kicked off #ubuntu by Keybuk (no flooding, please)
Lathiatthank keybyk09:02
natewhat the09:02
=== mode/#ubuntu [-o Keybuk] by Keybuk
jedixhrm, seems I can't do 1280x1024 in this distro.. that sucks.09:04
natethat's a distro limitation?09:04
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danielsedit /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, remove the 'HorizSync' and 'VertSync' lines from the Monitor section09:04
jedixI fixed them to what they are supposed to be..09:05
jedixdidn't remove them.09:05
danielsremoving them is the better thing to do, since the real values can be probed anyway09:05
jedixerm, ok.09:06
Keybukdaniels: is there any particular reason they're there if they can be probed ?09:06
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danielsKeybuk: some monitors need them there, and to be calculated from the resolution; apparently.  whether or not they should be there is a matter of contention over which I've deferred.09:14
=== rublind [~rublind@adsl-69-104-217-67.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu
rublindSuccesful Ubuntu installation just completed, but I have a few questions.09:16
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Keybukrublind: what are your few questions?09:16
rublindWell, there is no root user.09:17
rublindSo, how does everything work without a root?09:17
joemthe user created at install is given full sudo privs09:17
rublind... pseudo-root?09:17
rublind... okay, so I never nead root then.09:18
rublindsu should do nothing?09:18
joemman sudo if curious 09:18
Keybukrublind: sudo is like su, but instead of asking you for root's password it asks you for yours09:18
rublindIs there a command to launch a terminal?09:18
Keybukthat way the root user's password is locked09:18
Keybukrublind: Applications -> System Tools -> Terminal09:18
rublindI know that.09:18
rublindBut I want a short-cut.09:18
nate:reads the GoneME forums09:19
natehmm, these guys have some good ideas and some really wacked-out ones09:19
joemyou can bind a key to a launcher if that is the sort of short cut you are looking for09:19
Keybukrublind: define short-cut ... you can open the menu and drag that icon and put it on your desktop or panel09:19
rublind... how?09:19
=== Skif likes to put shortcuts on the top panel with a right-click and "Add to panel..."
Keybuknate: which did you like?09:20
jedixis there a package source that has mozilla thunderbird?09:20
Keybukjedix: that's in main!09:21
jedixunder www?09:21
Keybukunder mail, shockingly :p09:21
rublindTerminal isn't in the list for "Add to panel"09:22
jedixhehe, so it is.09:22
Keybukrublind: find it in the Applications menu, then click the right mouse button09:22
Keybukthere's an "Add launcher to panel" option09:22
rublind^_^ Thanks.09:22
rublindI am new to linux, so excuse the stupid questions.09:22
rublind(and to ubuntu)09:22
Skifor you can click on "Application Launcher" from the "Add to Panel" dialog09:22
nateThe modified file open dialog, slimming down Nautilus, a control center, menus for applications always giving the name of the program (I think GNOME already has that as a guideline tho)09:23
joemheh, the forums seem to be a bit thin under the "actual development section"09:23
rublindUh, if I want to add my windows hard drive to the filesystem, how would I go about that?09:23
nateButton order I don't care about, gconf I think is pretty cool as is, khtml I don't see the point (I like Firefox), removing Bonobo completely misses the point of what a component framework is09:23
Keybuknate: heh, all of those are upstream issues too :o)09:23
natereally? Neat09:23
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Keybukjoem: but they have a *logo* now ... code is surely a short way away09:24
Keybuknate: bonobo is kinda deprecated09:24
nateI was wondering about taht09:24
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Keybukat least, for certain things09:24
joemleast they have ther priorities in the right place09:24
natewhat's likely to replace it?09:24
Keybuknate: dbus for activation, general message-passing and stuff09:25
nateer, Mono?09:25
nateah, right09:25
Keybukit's a lot lighter-weight, and more open09:25
nateI keep seeing DBUS around09:25
Keybukbonobo remains a component and embedding model09:25
nateare there many things that use Bonobo, other than Nautilus and the panel?09:25
Keybukevolution, gnumeric, etc.09:25
nateI generally don't like it when Nautilus tries to use one of its own viewers, I prefer to open files in a real application09:26
Keybukevolution is a good example of how *not* to use bonobo09:26
natereally? Hmm.09:26
nateEvolution I like09:26
natewhat did they do wrong?09:26
Keybuknate: the window is a bonobo shell, when you open things in the window, they're bonobo components09:26
jedixso as soon as I click on a message, thunderbird crashes09:26
Keybukthere's no actual reason to do that09:26
nateI kind of thought that Evolution, even more than Gnumeric, was the flagship Bonobo app, being as it was Miguel's baby and all09:27
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KeybukMiguel saw a new shiny thing09:27
natethat's what it looked like to me09:27
KeybukEvo was never really miguel's baby either09:28
nateOh? Interesting.09:28
joemlots of people put hard work into evo09:28
Keybukif you took all the bonobo out of evo, it would still look and act the same09:29
Keybukbtw, on the previous ... uh, which nautilus viewer are you thinking of? :p09:30
rublindHow do I add something to the  "Computer" Menu09:30
Keybukrublind: sadly you can't, we want to do something cool for Hoary though09:30
nateheh heh09:30
natequote: 09:30
nate| Project GoneAM-ME is the first attempt to try moving the GoneME Desktop into a new direction.09:31
=== Mithrandir wonders how hard hoary will rock, if we manage to fulfill all we've said "is a hoary goal" or "will be fixed for hoary".
nateforking of forking, oh my09:31
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Mithrandirrublind: the next release of ubuntu09:31
Keybukrublind: Ubuntu 5.04 ... in about 6 months time, the next release after 4.1009:31
rublindAh, cool.09:31
rublindCan you add folders to / ?09:31
Keybuknate: nautilus viewers were exocised in the last release09:31
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rublindAre you the Developers of ubuntu?09:32
natethey were a good idea but they never really worked09:32
Mithrandirrublind: both Keybuk and I are among the ubuntu developers, yes.09:32
rublindOh, cool.09:32
Mithrandirthere are more in here, but not active atm, it seems.09:32
rublindIf I want to mount my windows drive to a folder, do I have to do it everytime, or just once?09:32
Keybukrublind: if you edit /etc/fstab and put the appropriate runes in there, it will come up all the time09:32
Keybuk(and yes, it would be nice if this were easier :p)09:33
rublindI have a problem. ^_^09:33
rublindmount -t ntfs /dev/hd0 returns: "mount: only root can do that"09:33
Skiftry 'sudo mount ...'09:33
Keybuksudo mount -t...09:33
danielsMithrandir: yeah, 'hoary' seems to be the answer to absolutely everything.  applications bong plus gnome 2.10 plus mad phat startup plus x.org ... oh my.09:34
rublindNow it's bothering me about permissions.09:35
danielsplus utf-8, plus docs, plus ...09:35
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rublindI should chown -R  right?09:35
daniels-o uid=1000,gid=1000 might be useful09:36
rublindOkay, thank you.09:36
daniels(to mount, not chown)09:36
nateanyone know what's going to be in Gnome 2.10/09:36
rublindWell, who wants to help me add this to the /etc/fstab ?09:36
Keybukdaniels: heh, the great thing is you can guess what's in (e.g.) GNOME 2.10 and wave it off as a "hoary" thing :p09:37
nateof course09:37
danielsKeybuk: heh :)09:37
natethat's the great advantage of synchronising release schedules. :)09:37
Keybuknate: not yet, we'll find out over the next month or two09:37
nateI for one welcome the new holographic neural interface plugin for Nautilus09:37
danielswacky effects probably involving transparency and also likely involving scaling/moving of windows by a compmgr and doing the equivalent input redirection? hoary!09:37
joemnate, http://gnome.org/start/2.9/ nothing there yet, but it will be updated as modules/changes are prposed09:37
Keybukdaniels: integration of the GTK+ FileSelector bookmarks list and the Nautilus Places list is a probably 2.10 thing ... and we can steal that for the Computer menu; magic \o/ hoary thing <g>09:38
daniels(xevie will be in, so xcompmgr will be able to transform windows, as long as it redirects the input properly; you can have them on an angle or some random bong if you like)09:38
danielsKeybuk: world peace? hoary!09:38
danielsnate: x event interception extension09:38
Keybuknaked ladies? hoar..oh, wait09:38
natethere are naked ladies on my desktop already09:38
joemheh, that one made it in time for warty09:39
joemgotta have priorities09:39
=== daniels wanders off to mow the lawns.
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natehmm, so that's for accessibility09:39
natehow's KDE's accessability?09:40
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jdubtseng: rocking stuff with the tomboy package, btw09:53
jdubtseng: dh_netdeps -> woo09:53
jdubtseng: got a 0.2.2 package on the way?09:54
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rexiboyhey guys, can n1 tell me how to get firewire working with ubuntu?09:58
Keybukjdub: so, why can't I drag contacts into notes -- and notes onto calendar events and tasks, etc.09:58
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rexiboytrying to access my cam corder09:59
joemKeybuk, not implemented yet(if you are talking about tomboy)10:00
rexiboyI can't belive it but gdesklets actually works!10:01
Keybukjoem: yeah :)  I'm wishlisting10:01
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joolzhm, weird. I have the Gaim system tray plugin running, but nothing appears in the system tray10:07
=== attitude [~kswain@fw.icallinc.com] has joined #ubuntu
joemsure you have the systray?10:09
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joolzuhm wait...10:09
joolzyes, i've deleted it :(10:09
joolzany way to get it back?10:09
Keybukjoolz: Add to Panel10:09
=== SuperL4g [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu
joemright click -> add to panel10:10
attitudeI had my nvidia drivers working with the i386 kernel and then i went to the k7 kernel and they do not work anyone know how to fix this?10:10
ElBastrexiboy: which version of gdesklets are you using?10:10
joemnotification area its called10:10
joolzah, right! thanks a lot!10:10
joemattitude, did you reinstall the drivers after switching kernels?10:10
andrilhello all10:10
miqorzIf I ever install linux again. Ubuntu will prolly be the distro.10:10
attitudejoem: apt-get install nvidia-kernel?10:11
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attitudejoem: yeah I did and still the same thing10:11
=== miqorz is currently a freebsd whore.
rublindAuto-completion is in ubuntu, right (where you press tab to finish file name)10:12
miqorzAll shells have that I think..10:12
SuperL4grublind: that's a function of Bash.10:12
rublindHm, then it's not working.10:12
miqorzSuperL4g, zsh has it too =)10:12
attitudemiqorz: not all but most of the big ones10:13
miqorzattitude, More often than not shell have it10:13
joolzstrange, my autocpmplete works too, but in /etc/bash.bashrc it's commented out10:13
rexiboyElBast, 2.6.110:13
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rexiboyElBast, this is one of the few times that gdesklets is working!10:14
joolzseems my ~/.bash_profile isn't read10:14
joolzis this normal for gnome?10:14
ElBastrexiboy: is that the one in ubuntu universe? it flat out refuses to work for me10:14
=== joolz from fvwm2 :)
Skifjoolz, you want ~/.bashrc10:15
miqorzi use openbox310:15
Skif.bash_profile is only read for login shells10:15
SuperL4gmiqorz: on Ubuntu?10:15
rexiboyElBast, yes, did you install it10:15
miqorzSuperL4g, I use freebsd. http://left-foot.org/Images/ss.png10:15
joolzSkif, yes I know. Thats something of gnome then, not reading the profile10:15
ElBastrexiboy: yeah, but whenever i run it, it just sits there doing nothing for a while in the task bar then stops10:15
Skifjoolz: yeah, because you've already logged in, via gdm, so starting a terminal isn't a login, see?10:16
joemooh I am in that screenshot10:16
miqorzi love my desktop =)10:16
joemI feel like a celeb10:16
miqorzjoem, you are?10:17
joolzSkif, i know. Im just used to fvwm. There i did my settings + login in runlever 3 and did a startx from bash_profile10:17
rexiboyElBast, so you started gdesklets first and than went to /usr/share/gdesklets/Display right click on starterbar.display open with gdesklets?10:17
joemheh yea, I am leaving an irc chan10:17
=== SuperL4g [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu
miqorzNow I see.10:17
rublindMy mouse has extra buttons (some for back and forward in browsers), is there a way to use them?10:17
joolzrublind, yes, just push them ;-)10:18
Skifjools: pretty much all *dm variants work that way10:18
ElBastrexiboy: ah, no... i've only started it. let me try that and see how i go :10:18
Skifer, joolz, that was10:18
joolzSkif, ok, thanks10:18
Skifgdm, kdm, xdm, whateverdm10:18
rublindjoolz, I don't think they work correctly though.10:18
miqorzEntrance is the best *dm. But startx rules them all :P10:18
joolzrublind, sorry, i was just kidding10:18
rublindI'm new to linux, so :P10:18
Skifthe best *dm is the one that doesn't crash when you try to run it :-P10:19
rexiboyElBast, than you will need to place it on the desktop, it will be a tiny dot, right click and add starter10:19
joolzrublind, welcome then!10:19
rublindThanks ^_^10:19
miqorzI'm what you may call a "veteran" despite being 16 and only been using *n?x a year.10:19
rublindI'm sixteen, and I've only used knoppix, and some suse and fedora.10:19
rublindUbuntu is my first permanent installation.10:19
=== Skif feels so *old*
miqorzI've used them all :P10:20
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miqorzi don't even use linux now. FreeBSD is nice.10:20
=== rexiboy feels old aswell :)
Skifstop that crap right now, or I will rant about H.R.Puffenstuf :P10:20
joolzjesus, i'm a dinosaur :-) I think i started with redhat 5.1 or something like that :)10:20
attitudehad to build it from source10:20
attitudehow can I make a deb of the nvidia-kernel-sources for the k710:20
miqorzSkif, Nothing like smoking a big fat bag of crack and watching HR PuffnStuff10:20
ElBastrexiboy: aha, it seems to be working... cool, thanks10:20
Skifo_O;; er, okay10:20
rexiboyElBast, no worries :)10:21
Skifone of the nice things about appalachia was, no crack10:21
Skifexcept for the occasional plumber10:21
rexiboyany one got firewire working? trying to access my sony cam10:21
rublindI tried to ./configure something (before installing), and it can't find a C compiler in the PATH10:21
Skifrublind: you have gcc installed?10:22
rublindI have what came with ubuntu10:22
rublindJust installed it.10:22
SuperL4gYou guys familiar with Kate... one of KDE's text editors? Is there something that looks/works similar for Gnome?10:22
Skifrublind: keep in mind that whenever a configure script says "<foo> not found" you usually need both "foo" and "foo-dev" packages10:23
Skifor "libfoo-dev"10:23
Skiffor example, configure sez, "guile not found", you usually need guile and libguile-dev10:23
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joemSuperL4g, gedit I guess10:24
rublindWhere can I get a c compiler?10:24
|trey|Skif: usually a lot easier to resolve such things with "auto-apt"  :/10:24
jdubrublind: apt-get install build-essential10:24
joemrublind, install build-essential10:24
|trey|Skif: I recommend checking it out  :)10:24
Skiftrey: what an interesting package.10:25
=== merriam [~merriam@81-6-223-123.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu
mojoSuperLag: try Anjuta or GNOME Editor10:25
miqorzthis place sure is active at 4:23 am10:25
SkifI think I'd rather take care of dependencies manually, but I like the idea10:25
joemanjuta is a full blown ide10:25
=== |trey| thinks apt-listchanges apt-listbugs debfoster and auto-apt should be installed by default :(
Skifapt-listchanges for sure, that's too nice10:26
rublindAh, crap, my sound isn't working.10:26
maskiemiqorz, but it might be 6 hours later somewhere else10:26
jdub|trey|: auto-apt is *not* a good idea.10:26
|trey|-listbugs if you're using test releases etc... debfoster to make keeping track of packages easier... auto-apt just cuz it rocks  :)10:26
|trey|jdub: how so?10:27
|trey|auto-apt search is pretty useful  :/10:27
jdub|trey|: it needs explaining?10:27
|trey|jdub: I use it, never had a problem  :(10:27
rublindSomeone want to help me fix my sound?10:28
jdubhere's a post from 200010:28
joolzhmmm, if .bash_profile isn't parsed, where do i start my fetchmail daemon? from init.d?10:28
|trey|jdub: doesn't appear to wanna load here  :(10:29
Skifjoolz: there's always crontab -e10:29
jdubhrm, actually that's the first thread10:29
Skifuse @boot for the time10:29
jdubthere's another one about insane crack10:29
jdubyeah, @boot is rad for fetchmail10:30
rexiboywhere do i enable raw1394 support?10:30
Skifjdub: dircproxy, too10:30
joolzSkif, afaik crontab will do things periodically, i just want it done on boot (or login)10:30
Skifjoolz: that's what @boot does10:30
Skifman 5 crontab10:30
rexiboydo i need to compile the kernel?10:30
|trey|jdub: yeah, it doesn't seem that negative... that sounds like what auto-apt is meant for...10:30
joolzSkif, ok, thanks, o'll have a look10:31
jdub|trey|: there's another thread.10:31
Skifoops, it's @reboot10:31
Skifmy bad10:31
jdub|trey|: still, automatically installing stuff based on access is not a remotely sensible default.10:31
=== wobbler [wayne@] has left #ubuntu ["Leaving"]
|trey|jdub: how so? beats them coming here asking "./configure says this, what does it mean?"10:32
Skifimagine a program that dlopen()s a number of libs, just to optionally use them if they exist10:32
Skiftrey: normal users won't be ./configure-ing :)10:33
|trey|jdub: maybe make it part of build-essential at least? its usually used more by people compiling things  :/10:33
jdub|trey|: so now you've got users who don't know what they're doing, having their system automagically installing stuff they don't understand... yeesh.10:33
Skiftrey: but then package builders wouldn't get their build-deps right10:33
Skifit's bad enough as it is 10:33
rublindSomeone: Help me get my Audigy sound card to work.10:33
|trey|...or by people used to something being installed, and its not... like lsof in regular debian installs...10:33
|trey|jdub: many things installed by ubuntu by default I don't understand or need  :/  10:34
|trey|at least they will want the stuff installed  :/10:34
=== Skif is just glad he has abcde and cdparanoia
jdub|trey|: that's different to dynamically installing stuff in an insecure manner10:34
|trey|Things like LVM and RAID being configured by default is just as problematic imo...10:35
|trey|People don't know its there though, so they don't know to play with it  :/10:35
danielsdoes this mean that if I post a blog entry with <img src="file:///usr/bin/kopete">, I'll cause half of KDE to be installed for eveyrone reading Planet Debian?10:35
Skiftrey: you could always write a bot that lurked here, listened for people complaining about configure issues, and told them to install auto-apt :)10:36
|trey|Skif: bah10:36
jdubno, no, no, auto-apt is not a sane solution to the problem10:36
rexiboytrying to install doom 3 to /usr/local/games but it says no write permission. but th einstall asked for root pass...???10:36
danielsnot even close10:36
|trey|jdub: *shrug* all the tools I listed are the first things to be installed  :/10:36
|trey|Guess they are no good for the masses?10:37
jdubof course not10:37
daniels|trey|: i don't see how that means everyone should use auto-apt, however10:37
rexiboyany ideas?10:37
jdubrexiboy: use sudo10:37
danielsrexiboy: try running the install script with sudo10:37
miqorzrun installer as root10:37
rexiboywill try10:37
=== Skif remembers when he first realized The User Is Not Like Me.
joolzor try with sudo -s10:38
Skifkinda humbling, it was10:38
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=== |trey| just thinks auto-apt makes compiling things (for instance) a lot easier... if you request something that isn't installed, its automagically installed... if you don't try to use something, its not installed...
danielsSkif: yeah, he's me10:38
daniels|trey|: and again, think of things checking for stuff to see if it's there10:39
Skifdaniels: I've seen you drink, he's not like you either :)10:39
daniels|trey|: suddenly you have Mono, KDE, CUPS, LDAP, everything under the sun installed and hey, where'd my diskspace go?10:39
daniels|trey|: i think it's possibly the furthest thing from the right solution10:39
danielsSkif: heh! whisky bof, or other?10:39
Skifdaniels: I paid for your hotel & ols10:39
Skifer, @ ols, even10:39
|trey|daniels: it wouldn't install things that aren't requested  :/10:39
Skifwell, my employers paid :)10:40
danielsSkif: yeah :) it's not like it was at all damaged10:40
miqorz "Uhem... uhh... Saddam... Osama.. uhh umm... Weapons of Mass Destruction!"10:40
Skifdaniels: unlike, say, your head that morning? :)10:40
jdub|trey|: the opposite is the problem.10:40
|trey|Debian's depends etc are set up usually in an attempt to allow the least possible to be installed if you request the right package...10:40
rexiboynah, doom will not install on 64 i guess :(10:40
danielsSkif: oh man, yeah.  at least I was lucid enough to greet you ;)10:41
jdub|trey|: it is not a sane solution, indeed, making building software easier is generally *not* a sane solution.10:41
=== MrMario64 [~MrMario64@kroonstraat.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu
|trey|jdub: the opposite... so installing things the user wants is the problem?10:41
MrMario64Hi guys10:41
Skifdaniels: heh.  Actually, that was the first year I was sensible, and didn't completely go blotto at the afterparty10:41
jdub|trey|: the user *does not know* -> forget building, think about every other instance.10:41
|trey|jdub: but people don't compile things generally... hence making it part of build-essential?10:42
MrMario64question: ubuntu mounts my smb share in fstab before my wireless pcmcia networkcard is running. How can I change the order?10:42
jdub|trey|: it is not a sane solution to any problem, full stop.10:42
=== |trey| likes it when things work without him needing to think...
danielsSkif: yeah, I totally missed the afterparty10:42
jdub|trey|: technical users who are aware of its function will use it for particular jobs, and that's about it.10:43
Skifdaniels: yeah, I remember; you had to go to the states with the RH guys, right?10:43
Skifdon't feel bad, you missed a bunch of drunken geeks arguing about KDE vs. GNOME :P10:43
danielsSkif: not really, it was more that I decided that there were very many good things for me to do that day, and drink more wasn't one of them10:43
danielsanyway, ride's here, must head off :)10:43
|trey|jdub: primary use: making things compile without constant errors... imo, the compilation process doesn't teach you as much as advertised  :/10:43
Skifta :)10:43
|trey|I'm not a programmer, hence compiling is not useful in most cases... but when I have to, I don't wanna think  :/10:44
jdubyou shouldn't be building software10:44
Skiftrey: speaking as a programmer, I want to make sure I am installing the right things when I compile10:44
jdubyou shouldn't be using fundamentally insecure hacks to avoid learning what you're doing10:45
Skiffor instance, several packages might provide the functionality I need, and I probably don't want auto-apt picking the wrong one.10:45
|trey|Non-programmers (like myself) don't care whats needed to compile something, they just won't it to work... they can't customize the code themselves anyways  :/10:45
jdubyou should not be compiling software10:45
joem|trey|, he is right10:45
jduboptimising the process of compiling software for people who don't know what they're doing is totally silly10:45
Skiftrey, this is one of those cases where if one man calls you a jackass, you can ignore him, but when the whole channel does, you might start looking for a saddle. :)10:46
|trey|jdub: when something isn't available... or customizing my own kernels... I compile... 10:46
joemyou can't compile your own software and customize a kernel and then say you don't want to think10:46
|trey|the process of compiling still doesn't teach me much though... gentoo's dep checking fixes this on the fly, but I due to not liking to compile... I don't use Gentoo  :/10:47
|trey|auto-apt fixes the deps in the same way though... on the fly  :/10:47
jdubnone of this is worthwhile rationale for doing silly, insecure things10:47
jdublet's leave it10:47
|trey|I still don't understand how installing things is insecure... make install requires you be root anyways  :/10:48
jduboh good god10:49
rublindHow do you open .deb?10:49
|trey|man dpkg-deb10:49
Skiftrey: you can use --prefix to install in non-root-requiring places10:49
jdub|trey|: auto-apt is a serious security hole. end of discussion, please.10:49
rublindThank you.10:49
|trey|jdub: hah.. k fine... :)10:49
|trey|Skif: I would rather apps go in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin... that way its for everyone  :/10:50
Skiftrey: nevermind, the horse is dead, let's stop flogging it10:50
Skifmmm, horse sausage10:51
=== |trey| still wants to know how something that is common place on Gentoo is insecure on Debian? :(
Skiftrey: doesn't mean it's not insecure on gentoo as well. 10:51
jdub|trey|: *auto-apt* is what we were talking about.10:52
|trey|I didn't say its not... I said its common place  :/10:52
jdubbuilding software is just pointless, not insecure10:52
joemplease lets not get into distrox vs distroy10:52
|trey|jdub: I use auto-apt in much the same way as portage functions though... to resolve things while compiling... its pointless perhaps... but I still do it... hence being part of build-essential or simular  :/10:53
|trey|joem: I'm not... just stating an example  :/10:53
jdub1. auto-apt is fundamentally different to dependencies in portage10:53
Skiftrey: you can install it if you need; most users won't, so they don't need it10:53
jdub2. auto-apt is insecure10:53
joemit isn't an example, it is apples and oranges10:53
jdub3. there is absolutely no chance in hell of auto-apt being added to the depends of build-essential, let alone into our supported set10:54
|trey|Its (2) that I'm still not enlightened about... because I *am* using it... so would like to know   :/10:54
jdub|trey|: look at daniels's example above10:54
joolzhmm too bad, no irssi. Any suggestions for another repository?10:55
jdubjoolz: irssi is installed by default10:55
joolzjdub, 10:55
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|trey|jdub: debfoster fixes such things... allows you keep better track of software  :/10:55
jdubalso, use 'apt-cache search irssi' and similar to find packages10:55
joolzok i will10:56
SuperL4gisn't muine available for Ubuntu?10:56
=== |trey| used to use apt-file before auto-apt :/
jdub|trey|: debfoster has nothing to do with the insecurity of auto-apt10:56
|trey|jdub: I see nothing in his example pertaining to security... ugh... I still don't understand that part  :(10:56
ushoozSuperL4g, if you add some other sources to your apt-get list10:56
=== jdub explains slowly
jdubif you have a webpage with <a href="file://usr/bin/kopete">click me for fun!</a>10:57
=== Skif gets the popcorn and sodas
jduband the user clicks it10:57
|trey| |trey|: suddenly you have Mono, KDE, CUPS, LDAP, everything under the sun installed and hey, where'd my diskspace go?  <-- never had anything like this happen using auto-apt  :/10:57
jduband has auto-apt installed10:57
jdubauto-apt will resolve the access to /usr/bin/kopete10:58
jdubwhich means that blammo, every dependency of kopete is installed10:58
jduba very significant number of packages, on an ubuntu system10:58
|trey|jdub: sure, as a regular user, who has no access to install packages...10:58
|trey|It might try though  :/10:59
|trey|If the user is accessing the web with root rights, it deserves such things to happen  :/10:59
jdubyou're rationalising now10:59
jduband avoiding the point10:59
jdubit's an absolutely stupid behaviour to inflict on a system by default10:59
jduband not a sane solution to "i don't know how to build software"11:00
jdubcan we please leave it now?11:00
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|trey|I know how.. its just tedious going out and figuring out what I need  :/  auto-apt was recommended to me in here... apt-file is what I usually use, but auto-apt requires no user action  :/11:01
littelpaulmorning there ;-)11:01
jdublet's leave it now11:01
=== |trey| thought to point of things like apt was to not require users to look for software etc...
Skiftrey: no, the point of apt is that it manages package dependencies11:02
jdubcome on11:02
|trey|jdub: I'm no longer requesting auto-apt... and no one is asking things.. just trying to learn  :/11:02
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Skifnothing to do with building software11:02
|trey|I'm just wondering still why auto-apt is insecure when you are doing things as a user with no rights  :/11:02
littelpauli have an problem with the name resolution under ubuntu so i can not surf ;-( can anybody help?11:03
|trey|does auto-apt act simular to sudo or something? (ie giving the user rights?)11:03
|trey|littelpaul: dhcp-client is installed? do you have a local DNS? does /etc/resolv.conf point there?11:04
|trey|if no to second question, does it point to your ISP's DNS?11:05
littelpauli use dsl an got an dynamic dsl and the nameserver are in resolv.conf. i can also ping my dynamic ip11:05
littelpaulipv6 is already down11:06
Skifcan you ping your nameserver?11:06
Skifwell, there's yer problem.  Complain 11:07
Skifto your isp :)11:07
=== Skif notes it's surprisingly hard to type with a cat trying to sleep on your arm
|trey|Skif: yes, yes it is  ;)11:08
joolzno mouse jokes please :)11:08
littelpauli use the same nameserver as under suse and there everything ist ok11:09
|trey|littelpaul: peice of advice though, don't mention its Linux... most ISP's will shrug it off as "Linux isn't supported"  :/11:09
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littelpauli know ;-)11:09
MrMario64question: ubuntu mounts my smb share in fstab before my wireless pcmcia networkcard is running. How can I change the order?11:17
=== tuppa [~tuppa@c211-30-44-56.mirnd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu
LathiatMrMario64: heh i noticed the same problem in debian11:19
MrMario64luckily I am not alone then :)11:19
Lathiatyou can changfe the orders11:21
Lathiatlook at /etc/rc1.d the numbers are the order11:21
MrMario64k, looking11:21
Lathiatupdate-rc.d changes them too11:21
Lathiati dunno which one does the mounting11:21
Lathiatah theyre done in rcS11:22
Lathiatmountnfs.sh does it11:22
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MrMario64k, so what to do?11:23
Lathiatif this fucks your system up its not my fault :)11:23
Lathiatsorry my friends bit-torrenting im lagged to death11:24
Lathiatcd /etc/rc2.d11:24
Lathiatln -s ../init.d/mountsnfs.sh S70mountnfs.sh11:24
Lathiattypod mount<s>nfs.sh there11:24
Lathiatshould be no s11:24
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=== ricochet [~ricochet@adsl-69-107-77-231.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu
ricochetHi, why cant I find/install vi/vim?11:29
Lathiatim positive vim was installed in the default install for me11:30
Lathiatand its in main11:30
joemit is default11:30
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ricochetwhere is it?11:32
ricochetnot in /usr/bin11:32
ricochetthe vim package appears to be installed11:32
Tibozyes it is :)11:32
Lathiatit is for me11:32
Tiboz11:32[pts/2] tiboz@deirdre:~%which vim11:32
Lathiatricochet: file /usr/bin/vim11:33
MrMario64Lathiat, is there a default file I can put commands in that will always be done on startup?11:33
LathiatMrMario64: No but you can make one11:33
ricochet# file /usr/bin/vim11:34
ricochet/usr/bin/vim: cannot open '/usr/bin/vim' (No such file or directory)11:34
Lathiatjoolz: i assume hes reeferring to system startup cus thats what we were talkign about before11:34
Lathiatricosudo apt-get install vim --reinstalll11:34
joolzLathiat, o, sorry11:34
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LathiatMrMario64: make a file /etc/init.d/rc2_misc.sh , make it an executable shell script etc and then11:35
ricochetUnpacking replacement vim ...11:35
ricochetSetting up vim (6.3-025+1ubuntu2) ...11:35
ricochetlox:~# vim11:35
ricochet-su: vim: command not found11:35
LathiatMrMario64: update-rc.d rc2_misc.sh defaults s02211:35
Lathiatricoecho $PATH11:35
ricochet/usr/bin is in the path11:36
LathiatMrMario64: s202 ather11:36
ricochetlox:~# echo $PATH11:36
LathiatMrMario64: wtf my keyboards gone spaz11:36
Lathiatim /me stares at his keyboard11:36
Lathiatgot it right that time :)11:37
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Lathiatricochet:L try --remove vim --purge and install it again11:37
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Lathiatso sudo apt-get remove vim --purge and apt-get install vim11:39
ricochetyeah, that worked.  also removed kde, kdeaddons, wimpart, kvim, vim, vim-common11:40
ricochetI install kde again, and vim is gone again.11:40
Lathiatah right11:40
Lathiatkvim must comflict with vim11:40
Lathiatgateway:~> apt-cache show kvim |grep Conf11:41
LathiatConflicts: vim-tiny, vim-perl, vim-python, vim-ruby, vim-tcl, vim-tty, vim-gtk, vim-lesstif, vim-gnome, kvim (<< 1:6.2-135+1), kvim-perl, kvim-ruby, kvim-tcl, kvim-python11:41
ricochetsooo, how do I get vim and kde?11:41
ricochetto work together, like it does on my deb box11:42
Lathiatwell kde isnt exactly supported atm so thats why its broken i guess um11:42
Lathiatyou dont :P11:43
Lathiatyou can force apt not to remove vim11:43
Lathiatbut it might break things....11:43
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Lathiatand probably will11:43
ricochetwell this is sort of suckie.11:44
ricochetkvim doesnt seem to want to work either.11:44
ricochetcan I put debian sources in to get their packages somehow?  how does that work11:45
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LathiatIt will probably break it horibnly11:46
littlepaulgot it the name resolution functions ;-)11:46
Lathiatok i think your system sib0rked it doesnt conflict with vim11:46
Lathiatricochet: have you apt-get updated recently?11:46
Lathiati can install kvim here without removing vim11:46
ricochetyes.  it keeps sending errors here and there about something not in gzip format11:47
Lathiatpaste your apt sources to me in private?11:47
ricochetI asked here a few days ago and someone said, just keep trying.11:47
Lathiattheyre workign fine for me11:48
Lathiatand you could try a mirror11:48
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ricochetsays you are away?11:49
MrMario64Lathiat, why did we put the mountnfs in rc2.d and not in rc1.d or 5 ??/ in other words. Can you say in few words when which rc is used?11:50
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LathiatMrMario64: oh yeh rc1 would be better i meant that 11:51
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Lathiator well, it depends what you want to do wreally11:51
Lathiatrc1 is single user mode, rc2 is when it goes into X mode11:51
LathiatrcS is when its fierst starting up11:51
MrMario64ah ok11:51
MrMario64on google they say that runlevel 5 is when X starts11:52
Lathiatit epends on the distribution11:52
MrMario64to make it easy :))11:52
Lathiatlet me check ubuntus11:52
DXTwhen trying to mount a fat32 partition with nls=iso8859-8 (or iocharset=) it gives me an error, but on ntfs it works. how do i mount it (the fat32 part) with a specific charset?11:52
Lathiatgdm runs from 2-511:53
Lathiatso i guess it could be in 5 im not sure, but if you just want to do some startup tools, you probably want it in 1 or 211:53
MrMario64ok, I get it..11:53
MrMario64now what we did is move the mounting. Can I also move the startup of pcmcia? as now I think it will try 2 times to mount or am I wrong here?11:54
sarcasmwhat should i do to translate ubuntu installer to my language (Latvian)? 11:54
ricochettranslate yourself.  *sarcasm*11:55
sarcasmricochet, that's what i intend to do, where do i start?11:55
ricochetI was just being sarcastic.  i dunno.11:56
LathiatMrMario64: it will but that doesnt matter11:56
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Lathiatsarcasm: im not sure but ask the debian installer guys how they handle their translations?11:56
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vrlnis the new artwork here to stay? (just noticed that it's even on the front page @ ubuntulinux.org now)11:57
ricochetI like the nipples.11:58
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sarcasmLathiat, well, that would be a start, but isn't ubuntu installer branched from the debian one?11:58
Lathiatsarcasm: yes but i have no idea how translations are done, its probably gettext but i dunno so find out how theyre done then get the files out of the ubuntu installer and send file a bug for ubuntu with the translation?12:00
jdubsarcasm: ask Kamion when he's around - he's our cyborg installer guy, powered by thermonuclear energy.12:04
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ondrejis there some bug# for translations? I would like to help with Czech ones.12:06
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ondrejgnome-panel menu needs some l10n love :-)12:07
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sarcasmisn't the gnome-panel handled by gnome-i18n team?12:12
ondrejcould be, but I think that Ubuntu has some homebrew changes...(?)12:14
jdubondrej: a quick search will find that bug12:15
joemquite off topic12:16
miqorzjoem, Are you in *every* channel?12:16
ondrejjdub: ok, i will stop being lazy :-)12:17
joemmiqorz, yes12:17
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miqorzjoem, lol12:18
topyligaim sucks surprisingly little. i wish there were a way to suppress the join/leave messages though12:20
miqorzI wish it looked a little neater personally12:20
miqorzthe layout is pretty boring.12:20
topylii wish i looked a little neater12:20
miqorzme too12:20
miqorzYou look like hell12:20
topyliheh. it's not an irc tool anyway so this is more than i expected really12:21
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miqorzIt's easy to remove lots of the crap preinstalled by ubuntu right?12:26
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=== miqorz likes a minimal system
topyliyou could have installed a base system only in the first place12:27
miqorzUbuntu seems like the only distro i'd wanna use coming off freebsd12:27
miqorzi haven't installed it yet12:27
miqorzYou can install base system?12:28
topylioh, well install in expert mode or whatever it's called12:28
miqorzvery nice.12:28
topylisee the help screen when you start the install12:29
miqorzI'm sick of reinstalls but freebsd is causing me troubles.12:29
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topylidunno about bsd, but you don't have to install debian very often :)12:29
miqorzfreebsd is the same way12:30
miqorzive been switching distros and OS' alot12:30
topyliwell, everyone has to have a hobby i guess ;)12:30
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miqorzwell freebsd is what i WANT12:31
miqorzlinux is what i NEED12:31
vrlnI also switch distros all the time... haven't seriously tried a *BSD yet though12:31
vrlnlooking forward to check out freebsd 5.3 once it's released though12:31
miqorzE's CVS crap wont compile on freebsd12:31
topylimiqorz: ah, there's a funky dilemma :)12:31
miqorztopyli, indeed. :(12:31
miqorzdoes ubuntu use grub?12:32
miqorzoh fsck12:32
topyliwell you can use lilo if you want12:32
miqorzi might have to transfer my home to my slave drive and install ubuntu12:32
miqorzno no12:32
miqorzi love grub12:32
topylithat's the default12:32
miqorzshit man12:32
miqorzi might be switching tomorrow12:33
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topylimiqorz: damn it's hard to know when you're happy and when you're not. "oh shit" means "great" i guess =)12:33
miqorzim depressed now ~_~12:33
miqorzi NEED linux for my vital stuff like webcam and E CVS12:34
miqorzbut i like freebsd alot more12:34
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miqorztopyli, Do me two favours?12:34
topylitwo? hell!12:34
topyliwhat's wrong?12:35
miqorzWhat's the latest Enlightenment and  Openbox3 versions in ubuntu's default apt setup12:35
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topylie is 0.16 (as always :)12:35
miqorzi mean12:35
miqorzthe latest is .
miqorzi think12:36
topyliopenbox 3.2-412:36
miqorzi'll have to compile that from cvs too,.12:36
miqorzatleast the openbox version is recent12:37
miqorzi swear man12:37
topyliand they're not in the "default" setup. you have to enable "universe"12:37
miqorzim pissed12:37
miqorztopyli, What do you mean by that?12:37
miqorzIm not familiar with ubuntu or debian really12:38
topylithere's "main", "restricted", "universe"12:38
topyliuniverse is about the same as debian12:38
miqorzwhere do i enable these?12:38
Treenaksmiqorz: why would you be pissed? you could have known the default was Gnome, and the rest in universe if you would have read the website...12:38
Treenaksmiqorz: in /etc/apt/sources.list12:38
topylimiqorz: in sources.list, just uncomment them12:38
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miqorzTreenaks, I knew it was default. I just didn't know I could install WITHOUT them.12:39
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topylimiqorz: most of debian wisdom applies to ubuntu12:39
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miqorz*is backing up all the crap he wants to keep*12:40
PandUdoes apt-get dist upgrade work for ubuntu amd-64 to get the rc version ?12:41
PandUAnd Is it not better to select all upgradables in synaptic and apply upgrade12:41
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topyliPandU: no difference really. set synaptic to use the "smart upgrade" and it's the same as dist-upgrade12:44
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solsTiCei wanted to play some mp3 with rhyhtmbox and it complain about an non existant plugin to handle mp3. what is that plugin ?12:52
topylisolsTiCe: dunno, it should Just Work. this happens with all mp3?s12:55
topylimp3s?, heh12:55
kentsolsTiCe, perhaps the extra plugin is in the restricted archive, since it has patent-problems..?12:56
solsTiCetopyli: they are in a partition 12:56
miqorzUbuntu uses XFree?12:56
rmtXorg next release.12:56
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eaon6.8.0 i hope12:56
topylisolsTiCe: i mean the same problem happens with all mp3s and not just some? and does totem play them?12:57
miqorzI dont12:57
solsTiCetopyli: i am installing gsreamer-mad (see that on the wiki) i make a try12:57
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|trey|eaon: as apposed to 6.8.1? umm, any peticular reason?12:58
eaoni didn't know .1 is out :)12:58
solsTiCetopyli: ok it works12:58
topyliweird but nice :)12:58
solsTiCetopyli: what? you don't have to install gstreamer-mad to plau your mp3s ? 12:59
solsTiCetopyli: with rhythmobox12:59
|trey|eaon: in all honesty though, xorg and xfree aren't different enough yet to make a difference... composite is still experimental, so its not a big deal to users...12:59
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jeanlouishi everybody01:00
|trey|Speed differences are hardly noticeable  :(01:00
jeanlouisI'm looking for help01:00
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|trey|jeanlouis: you came to the right place  :)01:00
jeanlouisI can't config my path01:00
|trey|Now all we need is a question  :)01:00
eaon|trey|, it's not about whats nice right now imo01:00
eaonxorg makes a lot of progress, xfree... is xfree.01:01
jeanlouiswhen I modify .bash_profile to set my path01:01
|trey|eaon: nothing else is different really today...01:01
jeanlouisthere is no change01:01
|trey|jeanlouis: source .bash_profile..01:01
eaon|trey|, okay, in more clear words: i don't care about right now :)01:01
|trey|You need to log out and back in to make changes take effect, or source it...01:01
eaonxorg is just the way to go for the future so why wait ages01:01
|trey|eaon: tomorrow's features don't help me today  :/01:02
miqorzi hope i don't have to edit my xorg.conf too much for Ubuntu 01:02
eaon|trey|, hell, where's the problem with removing one package and install another?01:02
eaonas you said, it's the same, there's no extra effort01:02
eaonbut there's a set path for xorg01:03
crimsuneaon: it's being worked on. there's a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in transitioning from a monolithic build tree to a modular x.org one01:03
eaonwhy the hell would one want?01:03
|trey|eaon: why implement tomorrows technology before it is different today? why not work on the changes, THEN implement?01:03
|trey|jeanlouis: don't message me, ask here...01:03
jeanlouisi don't understand source01:03
joemeaon, important patches from xorg are present in the ubuntu xfree packages, this conversation isn't helping anybody and flooding the chan01:03
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eaonit's not my fault :)01:03
joemxorg will be in the next release, if you wanna talk direction, ask in #xorg01:03
eaonit's |trey| s ;)01:04
eaonanyway i gotta go01:04
|trey|Xfree works today... Xorg is still basically XFree 4.3.99 with minimal changes, so its not a big deal  :/01:04
|trey|jeanlouis: it just runs the script again.01:04
miqorzHave you even used 6.8.1?01:04
|trey|jeanlouis: .bash_profile = a script01:04
|trey|miqorz: yes.01:05
|trey|miqorz: Fedora Core 3 test 3.01:05
miqorzi used it on gentoo01:05
jeanlouisbut there is no change 01:06
|trey|miqorz: umm, did you use Xfree on Gentoo?01:06
jeanlouisi edit my .bash_profile01:06
miqorzXFree then Xorg01:06
|trey|jeanlouis: echo $PATH01:06
jeanlouisbut no change01:06
jeanlouisno change01:06
|trey|miqorz: and you noticed speed differences?01:06
|trey|jeanlouis: umm, then make sure you changed it  :/01:07
miqorzXorg keeps getting faster with each release01:07
|trey|miqorz: I haven't noticed, but ok  :/01:07
miqorzmaybe that's because fedora is a bloated mess?01:07
jeanlouisI'm sure 01:07
maskiejeanlouis, and make sure you execute the .bash_profile script after you changed it01:08
|trey|jeanlouis: If you changed it in .bash_profile, and 'source ~/.bash_profile, echo $PATH should show your changes  :/01:08
jeanlouisok i find why it doesn't work thx guys01:09
|trey|If it doesn't, you did something wrong  :/01:09
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eaon(you see, i'm not the one who wants to discuss xorg vs xfree :P) bye people01:09
|trey|miqorz: eh... its not really that bloated... Ubuntu = 1.7gb, Fedora = 2.3gb01:10
miqorzthe disk space has nothing to do with bloat hun01:10
|trey|Only difference is Fedora installs KDE libs by default  :/01:10
miqorzi like kde apps01:10
miqorzlike kpovemodeler, kate and k3b01:11
|trey|miqorz: what pertains to bloat in your opinion?01:11
|trey|miqorz: KDE is off topic here... just stating what the difference is...01:11
miqorzbloat for me is just a "feeling" of un-needed sllowneess01:11
miqorzthat's just for -me-01:11
|trey|miqorz: *shrug* Fedora feels fast to me  :/01:12
miqorznever has for me01:12
|trey|miqorz: shitty  :(01:12
topylii guess it's the slowest system i've tried :)01:12
topylii take that back! it was rh9, i've never had fedora01:13
miqorzdebian and slackware have been the fastest for me01:13
|trey|For me, its at least as fast as Ubuntu... but then, it uses the same apps, so that can be expected...01:13
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|trey|Things like OpenOffice feel faster there though  :/01:14
|trey|...and Mozilla  :/01:14
miqorzwho uses mozilla?01:14
|trey|miqorz: Firefox, me  :/01:14
miqorzi use firefox exclusively01:14
miqorzi dont even have mozilla installed01:14
|trey|miqorz: and for whatever reason, FC3T3's Firefox feels faster  :/01:15
topylii dure hope OOo 2 will be snappier than 1.x. if it's slower i'll write everything with vi :)01:15
miqorzMy only reason for dumping gentoo was how prone is was to breaking and it's users01:15
|trey|topyli: its supposedly SUBSTANTIALLY faster... its apparently one of the main goals  8)01:15
topyliso i've heard01:15
topyliat work we have a beta but it's on a windows box so i can't really compare01:16
|trey|topyli: install the Beta on Ubuntu  8)01:16
|trey|If its ok for business, its ok for home use  :)01:17
topylinaah. at some point i stopped using betas for production. i guess i'm old :)01:17
|trey|at work we have a beta but it's on a windows box so i can't really compare01:17
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|trey|I'm confused.01:18
|trey|Ubuntu itself is a beta  :/01:18
topyli|trey|: it's not my box.01:18
topyli|trey|: sure, and i used unstable for ages :)01:18
joemits at rc status actually :)01:18
|trey|...ok, so why not use a beta OO?01:18
|trey|joem: to me, beta = anything prior to release.01:19
littlepaulwhat about daily ubuntu iso?01:19
topyli|trey|: i don't know where the line has been drawn. some apps seem to be more scary to me than others :)01:19
|trey|littlepaul: wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive01:19
topylianyway, the windows box at work is a public playground. people install the weirdest things on it01:19
|trey|Seems like it would be my fav box in the place  8)01:20
littlepaultrey: thx01:20
topyli|trey|: hehe. it's a windows box though. you'd probably stay overnight and put unstable on it :)01:21
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|trey|topyli: eh... most of the apps I use can be installed on Winblows too... its the primary requirement for software I use  :)01:21
|trey|I don't use Windows at home... but if I have to use it, I can still use the same old apps  :)01:22
topylii have a win98 box here at home01:23
|trey|topyli: My Step Dad and Mom have XP Home  :/01:24
topyliit has office and acrobat that's about it01:24
|trey|I don't like MSOffice... although it is faster  :/01:24
topylimy mother-in-law has xp home as well. at least she calls more often that way :)01:24
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|trey|Keep trying to get my Mom to use GNOME etc... but blah, most of her games run on Microsoft, and she does little else... Step Dad wants to use the same thing as his work...01:26
schalkehi. I have a question regarding on network-confguration. I installed Ubuntu on a notebook with a PCMCIA Ehethernet Card from 3Com and a USRobotics WLAN-adapter. I could configure my LAN-access via the 3Com card during the installation-process. The WLAN-card appears in the device-manager. I tried to configure the WLAN manually using the option "activation when the system is started". After a reboot of the system I cannot access the LAN via 01:27
schalke3Com (it is called eth0). Trying to activate the LAN manually the system refuses my command. I would like to know where I can find documentation regarding the configuration of LAN and WLAN. I have searched the Ubuntu-site, but could not find any document relating to my problem. I would be pleased to get some help on where to search.01:27
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topyli|trey|: yes. "the same thing" is operative. i tried to upgrade to win2000 but my lady ordered me to put the "old thing" back :)01:27
llpamiesHow Can I install a mp3 and divix plugin in ubuntu ?01:27
|trey|topyli: I would leave a girl before I installed anything using FAT :/01:27
crimsunllpamies: add universe package sources to /etc/apt/sources.list (or use synaptic), then install gstreamer0.8-mad01:28
|trey|llpamies: add universe, and apt-get install gstreamer0.8-mad for mp3... dvix is a little more complicated  :/01:28
topyli|trey|: heh. win98 is not that bad as long as it's strictly a client (no files on it etc.), and you don't install too many apps and games01:28
ondrejcould somebody add http://archive.ubuntu.cz/cdimage/release/...  to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/ ?01:28
topylihell, that does sound pretty bad01:28
ondrejor who should I contact?01:29
|trey|topyli: eh, I wouldn't date someone that made me stick to it  :/01:29
|trey|ondrej: bad idea...01:29
topyli|trey|: well, that way she has her own box in the other room and i can play with linux01:29
|trey|Choice = confusion.01:29
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topyli|trey|: i'm the same way. thus, i have the same lady for the Nth year =)01:30
|trey|topyli: I can handle NTFS being around... FAT sucks though... no security.01:30
joemondrej, you could either file a bug or post to one of the lists01:31
topyli|trey|: it doesn't need security. it's the _client_. all files are on my linux box, and the win box is connected to nothing but the linux box01:31
topyli|trey|: note that this is my home, i wouldn't deploy win98 anywhere else :)01:32
|trey|topyli: eh, ok... still would leave her before I had a win98 box around though  :/01:32
topyliyou haven't met her have you? ;)01:33
|trey|I just hate the OS that much01:33
|trey|topyli: this is a valid point... I haven't... but I don't believe there would be an exception  ;)01:33
|trey|I'm pretty adament about certain things  :)01:34
topylia man of honor01:34
llpamies|trey|:  How do you do for play divx ?01:34
|trey|"leave me, or use a decent OS", if she cares that much, then peace... else she gets a decent OS  :/01:35
|trey|llpamies: supposedly, gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg should handle it, but it doesn't... 01:35
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|trey|llpamies: mplayer does, but you have to go to apt-get.org... find the source stating "marillat" that contains w32codecs, add that to /etc/apt/sources.list, apt-get update && apt-get install ffmpeg w32codecs mplayer-nogui01:36
|trey|Or get a GUI... but I just run it from CLI  :/01:37
|trey|mplayer-686 is prolly what you want if you would rather have a GUI01:37
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topylitotem handles it too but you need totem-xine (and the codecs). totem-gstreamer is installed by default01:37
sepheebearim convinced that totem-gstreamer is pretty useless at this point. it never works with anything I need it to01:37
|trey|topyli: Xine sucks  :/01:38
|trey|sepheebear: same here... hence mplayer...01:38
sepheebeartotem-xine's still 100x better than gstreamer01:38
|trey|mplayer > gstreamer > xine01:38
miqorzmplayer > xine > gstreamer01:38
|trey|Xine just sucks at movies right now  :/01:38
sepheebearmplayer is the trusty workhorse01:38
|trey|Gstreamer just sucks at movies right now  :/01:39
topyliwell, mplayer is the best for sure.01:39
|trey|gstreamer is technically supperior to xine and mplayer... just not practical today...01:39
|trey|gstreamer0.8-ffmeg needs serious work/more codecs...01:40
topyligstreamer is going to be very cool for gnome people one day. but this is not the day yet :(01:40
sepheebeargstreamer is all dressed up with nowhere to go01:40
=== |trey| wishes there was a w32codecs plugin for gstreamer :(
|trey|sepheebear: it just lacks the codecs... hence my last comment  :)01:41
sepheebearthere you go!01:41
|trey|Xine kinda just sucks in general though... it just happens to work today  :/01:41
sepheebearmedia player sans codecs = nothing more than a high tech picture frame... pretty useless01:42
|trey|gstreamer = future today... I talked about my stance on that earlier though01:42
|trey|If its not ready, it shouldn't be used.01:42
tolle_hmms, unrar isnt available in ubuntu's default package tree?01:43
sepheebearbut it's leading us in a pretty cool direction, dont get me wrong, just not there yet01:43
|trey|Gives it negative mind share amoungst untechnical people...01:43
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|trey|sepheebear: when I can install 'gstreamer0.8-w32codecs gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg', I will be a happy man  :)01:43
sepheebearnow if only i could totally wrap my brain around what the hell exactly gstreamer does/is, i'd be a genius01:44
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|trey|sepheebear: its a common media architechture... 01:45
|trey|easy access for apps to codecs basically...01:45
topyliinspired, i tried to install mplayer-k7 but it's not installable right now from marillat :(01:46
|trey|topyli: k601:46
sepheebearall those sinks and spiders get my brain all tangled01:46
tolle_I'm sure I'm not the onlyone who prefers Epiphany over Mozilla Firefox?01:47
|trey|tolle_: I believe you are  ;)01:47
|trey|my primary reason: Firefox runs on every OS  :/01:47
tolle_he, rather annoying. do a whois tolle and whois tolle_01:47
tolle_yeah, but doesn't follow the basic look on any of them.01:48
sepheebearwhy is it, i could play iTunes aac files with gst from the command line yet rhythmbox refuses to acknowledge they exist?01:48
|trey|tolle_: does actually... you just need a simular icon theme  :/01:48
joemsepheebear, its an issue with rhythmbox01:48
tolle_|trey|: I have one01:48
topylimplayer-k6 is not installable either. libggi2 and libungif4g versions conflict01:48
joemtell them about it, because other people have had it and they shrug it off01:48
|trey|sepheebear: because whatever you used supports it, gstreamer does not.01:49
topyli|trey|: ^^01:49
|trey|topyli: ugh... testing repo and include universe.01:49
sepheebearreally? i didnt know that. i was under the impression that gst was doing all the file munching and rhythmbox was just a front end01:49
joem|trey|, read his comment before responding01:49
sepheebeari stand corrected01:49
|trey|sepheebear: you are correct.01:50
joemsepheebear, rhythmbox has issues with importing them iirc01:50
|trey|joem: I did.01:50
joem|trey|, he can play them with gstreamer, just not with rhythmbox01:50
|trey|joem: Rhythmbox is just a frontend... media is handled via gstreamer  :/01:50
|trey|joem: ugh01:50
joembecause rhythmbox has issues with importing certain files01:51
willis gstreamer any good?01:51
willi use xine01:51
|trey|joem: I know of no CLI app that uses gstreamer  :/01:51
joemuh, gst-play01:51
topyli|trey|: with testing, libfaad2 version conflicts :)01:51
|trey|joem: oh01:51
|trey|topyli: ugh... it installed here, thats what I did... dunno whats wrong... cept that I used -nogui  :/01:51
topylii wonder if i have some strange libs from unstable sneaked in01:52
topylioh, i have nogui here atm, works fine01:52
sepheebeari was able at one point in my debian install, able to import only a few aac's into the rhythmbox library after i had installed a gstreamer aac plugin that i had converted over from an rpm, but it stopped working all of a sudden then refused to work anymore01:52
topylijus thought i'd get rid of totem and install mplayer with a gui :)01:52
tolle_sepheebear: maybe rhythmbox uses gstreamer-0.8 and you got 0.6 installed with the aac codecs or something01:53
|trey|topyli: I haven't used mplayer's gui in a long time...01:53
|trey|Used kmplayer once  :/01:53
topyli|trey|: me neither. thought i'd give it a look01:53
tolle_|trey|: totem has the nicest gui for a video player.01:53
sepheebearit was from one of those rpm repository sites and i believe iirc that it was gst-0.801:54
|trey|topyli: I didn't like the interface, doesn't fit in with anything...01:54
topylitolle_: sure, it fits into gnome01:54
tolle_topyli: like a glove01:54
|trey|tolle_: I prefer HelixPlayer, but ok  :)01:54
joemsepheebear, might want to see if anybody is awake in #rhythmbox on gimpnet01:54
topyli|trey|: that's the problem with most media players in all os's01:54
tolle_|trey|: HelixPlayer almost looks the same..01:54
|trey|tolle_: preference is mainly due to HelixPlayer running on w32 boxen  :/01:54
topylibut helix/real doesn't play everything01:55
tolle_|trey|: He, I got no w32 boxes..01:55
sepheebearits ok now though, mpd plays just about all my aac's without a hitch, except the copy protected ones01:55
tolle_btw, is anyone keeping up with the current gstreamer video updates?01:55
|trey|tolle_: not the point... if it runs on w32, I don't have to learn a new UI when I am stuck at a w32 box...01:55
tolle_|trey|: ah, I wont either..01:56
|trey|Just install the app I like01:56
|trey|s/like/am used to/01:56
tolle_|trey|: I got a 10mb connection. I just run all the apps over ssh01:56
sepheebearjoem: doesnt seem like a soul's in there01:56
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tolle_|trey|: not movie players, but the rest.01:56
topyliok, screw the gui. i'm not going to spend my day trying to install a stupid gui for a stupid media player on my stupid computer01:56
|trey|tolle_: I use nothing that can't be installed on many OS's  :/01:57
|trey|topyli: haha01:57
tolle_|trey|: you can run the entire gnome suit on windows.01:57
tolle_|trey|: cygwin01:57
tolle_|trey|: Not realy uptodate. But some older versions works.01:57
|trey|tolle_: cygwin/x is a little too troublesome imo  :/01:57
tolle_|trey|: he, realy true01:57
topyli|trey|: hey, upgrading mplayer-nogui and mencoder doesn't work either. i think the repositories are in a flux currently01:58
|trey|Why run it in what amounts to a virtual machine when you can run it natively?01:58
|trey|I don't need a DE if I'm running Explorer already... why install it?01:59
sepheebearmplayer and mpd are my media suite of choice. they play just about everything i throw at em... even the broken files01:59
topyliwhat is mpd?01:59
tolle_|trey|: I'm just a sucker for the generic "feel" of nice gtk2 apps.01:59
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|trey|Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, Gaim - all the basic apps work natively...01:59
sepheebearmusic player daemon01:59
smHey guys... does anyone use a Sony Picturebook C1VFK with a working XF86Config-4 file I could have??02:00
|trey|tolle_: get a gtk based theme for explorer  :)02:00
topylisepheebear: hmmm. and that differs from a standalone player how?02:00
topyliremote juju?02:01
joemit has many different frontends02:01
tolle_btw, how can i get the user "tolle" to logoff freenode. It is my, and connected from my ip.02:01
sepheebearyeah that's what i like about it02:01
joemtolle_, are you registered?02:01
topylii'll have a look02:01
|trey|tolle_: /msg nickserv help02:01
tolle_joem: yeah02:01
joem /msg nickserv ghost02:02
|trey|topyli: /msg nickserv release 02:02
|trey|tolle_: even02:02
|trey|tolle_: so /msg nickerv release tolle02:02
sepheebearjust needed to compile in aac support and a little configuring, in less than 20 mins i was finally able to play all my files vs. about 4-5 hrs02:03
tolle_doh, so long since i logged in with the pw that the registration got removed.02:03
|trey| /msg nickserv release tolle passwd02:03
sepheebear...messing around with rhythmbox02:03
|trey|tolle_: thats bad02:03
topylisepheebear: hmm. the gnome mpc client looks useful02:03
tolle_|trey|: he, yeah. but not realy a big problem.02:04
sepheebearyeah and good for me, it's actually readable unlike xmms imho02:04
tolle_|trey|: however, shouldnt it sortoff get automaticly logged of after a few days?02:04
|trey|tolle_: eventually it will... you should remember the password.02:05
sepheebearmpd is the daemon and gmpc is one of the frontends for it02:05
tolle_|trey|: yeah, to log in with it so that the registration doesn't get whiped.02:05
=== |trey| wonders if the blonde chick in the new graphics works with Ubuntu at all? She's cute :o
topylisepheebear: looks good. i can log out and the lady can log in without disturbing the playback. i think i'll give it a try02:06
sepheebeartrey: i second that emotion02:07
|trey|gmpc looks very very very very nice  :)02:07
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sepheebearyeah that's what's so cool about it02:07
topylino ubuntu packages02:08
sepheebeari reboot while music's playing and when the daemon loads after reboot, it picks up the song right from where it left off, i consider that awesome!02:08
playhi everyone ! Ubuntu : Excellent distro ! Congratulations !02:08
|trey|Rhythmbox's Small Display is just as nice though  ;)02:08
|trey|play: we're proud of it  8)02:08
tolle_btw, has anyone tested dashboard recently?02:08
sepheebearplay: Ubuntu's the greatest!!02:08
playi would like to know, how you proceed to use gksudo instead of gksu by default ? 02:09
|trey|sepheebear: *will be* the greatest... hoary looks like it will be  :)02:09
|trey|play: ya just type your password  :)02:09
playyep ! Ubuntu's the greatest ! ;)02:09
sepheebearyeah that gksu/gksudo had me for a while too02:09
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Mitariolo everyone02:10
playtrey > :) how to use it under Sarge ? (i have Sarge on my laptop)02:11
willdoes anyone know how to set up the energy saver mode for the monitor to black out? im using ACPI02:11
topylii think i'll go out for a beer or eight. no use spending my saturday with you geeks :)02:11
|trey|sudo -s = root terminal... gksudo = root gui... thats all ya gotta remember  :)02:11
playi configured sudo as ubuntu sudo configuration02:11
|trey|play: never used gksudo on anything other then Ubuntu  :(02:12
Muttleyhaha, that mail from Richard Morrell on the mailing list is funny :)02:12
sepheebeari think energy saver for the monitor is in the screensaver controls02:12
|trey|Muttley: linkage?02:12
playtrey > thanks for this information. why ?02:13
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sepheebearwill: yeah it's dpms that you're looking for right?02:13
willsepheebear: most probably!02:13
willsepheebear: how do you control it, as well as things like hd spin down times?02:15
SamBozoI totally agree with Richard, I was showing ubuntu to an elderly (60's) lady here yesterday.. needless to say I'm not going to have to put 98 back on her machine02:16
tolle_will: the screen to black out, in gnome?02:16
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SamBozopersonally I don't mind, but if u want to spread beyond the (what ever the phrase is today) kwel folks .. it ain't helping02:16
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tolle_will: It's a part of xscreensaver, just tell it to turn off the screen after a while.02:16
sepheebearno clue on the hd spindown times, im running a desktop? if u find out let me know im looking at some laptops for Ubuntu in the near future02:17
tolle_will: hdd spindown is controlled with hdparm, atleast thats what i usualy use on laptops.02:17
willah good, yes i had it set, but disabled xscreensaver!02:17
SamBozoI'm not going  meant now going to have to02:17
tolle_sepheebear: hdparm fixes them02:17
playon my Sarge (i can not install ubuntu on my laptop for professional reasons :-(), i configured a user account who have root privileges with sudo and the problem is that gnome's menu start "gksu -u root"... 02:17
willtolle_: thanks02:17
sepheebearreally? hdparm whoa02:17
joemplay, just change the launchers to run gksudo02:18
|trey|Muttley: so he takes offense to the naked (but covered) people?02:18
tolle_hdparm -S is the option, check the man page.02:18
playjoem > the launchers ? where is it please ?02:18
Muttley|trey|: yeah, well he is " Richard Morrell - Linux Evangelist, Award winning founder and co-author of SmoothWall, Sponsor of OpenSource development projects." ;)02:18
|trey|Muttley: I could care less who he is... they are covered  :/02:19
willone other question: do you know how to disable DMA on (hdd) i get massive dilays when it tries to enable UDMA mode on this drive02:19
Muttleyguy deserves (or wants) attention :)02:19
joemplay, right click -> properties on the launchers in the menu that run with gksu02:19
joolzhmm, sound works, but no sound in gaim :|02:19
joemwill, /etc/hdparm.conf02:19
Muttley|trey|: I think firewalling off his users was a bit lame :)02:19
joemwill, then make sure the hdparm service runs on startup02:20
MuttleyI think it's all quite amusing ;)02:20
|trey|Muttley: indeed... for no nudity  :/02:20
playjoem > ah ok :) Thanks for this precision. do you know a solution which apply "gksudo" for all applications of the menu ?02:20
Muttley|trey|: wonder if he firewalls off underwear vendors too ;)02:20
|trey|If one of the chicks was spread eagle + nekkid, I might agree... thats not very professional... but they show nothing  :(02:20
joemplay, why on earth would you want to run everything with sudo?02:21
willjoem: what if its a kernel thing?02:21
|trey|joem: because its what Ubuntu does apparently  :/02:21
tolle_ESR is always mentioned as the "creator" of fetchmail, he has to have worked on larger projects to?02:21
sepheebeartrey: now that's "Open" Source02:21
joemheh, not quite02:21
|trey|sepheebear: haha  :)02:22
joemwill, I don't know whats at the root of your problems, but you can use hdparm to turn off dma02:22
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willjoem: thanks02:22
|trey|I like the image damnit.. but I guess, if more complain, they should put more clothes on and make another... the message is curtainly there either way...02:22
|trey|the image = the logo with real people instead of shapes  8)02:23
playjoem > for ease-of-use :) i'm the only user of my laptop and i enjoy very well Ubuntu sudo configuration02:23
|trey|play: please change your send charector.. '>' to me means only "greater than" and I read it as such  :/02:24
willjoem: i have all DMA working disks, except hdd, so when i startup, i have like 5 minute waits while the kernel etc tries to enable dma, but it cant, errors like DMA TIMING ERROR....02:24
joemplay, so running the webbrowser as root somehow = ease of use?02:24
sepheebearimho just lose the shirtless guy and get some hair on that chocolate-skin lady's head02:25
playtrey : sorry :( i did'nt know02:25
tolle_play: the basic rule is, never run anything with higher permissions then required to do the task.02:25
|trey|joem: I hope he is talking only about System Configuration items  :/02:25
joemplay, you should only change the ones that are already set to run with gksu02:26
joemyou don't(and should never) need to run everything with root privs02:26
playjoem : :) no just the applications which require root privileges (for exemple : gnome tools) not all applications :)02:26
|trey|joem: he's just trying to make his Debian install more like Ubuntu's  :/02:26
sepheebearwhy not just dist-upgrade to warty? 02:27
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|trey|Still not entirely sure what he means by "Professional" reasons... it basically IS Debian, so it would be an easy sell if its a company machine  :/02:28
=== |trey| leaves to watch Football (with your feet)
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lenkki_Hello folks02:29
lenkki_I have a little problem navigating the wiki, I can't seem to find a page where you can add ideas / suggestions for the next release02:30
joolzAnyone know a good repository that has mplayer + dependencies?02:30
sepheebearthat Morrell dude has a point02:30
playok, thanks for informations. see u and have a lot of fun ! :) bye02:31
|trey|sepheebear: The message in the image is fine though... perhaps they need more clothes, but the idea should remain  :/02:31
joolzdeb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main has dependencies that apt-get won't resolve02:31
|trey|joolz: I told you to use testing, not unstable!!02:32
joolzduh. right, sorry02:32
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sepheebeari dunno, to me, i like the image, a little shock at first, but hey, my grandma aint running linux just yet and i think grandpa might actually dig it02:32
sepheebeari vote keep the image02:33
|trey|sepheebear: the image is the logo with real people vs shapes... the lack of clothes isn't professional though  :/02:33
sepheebearUnix needs skin, i get sick of all the the penguins and huxley images after a while02:35
|trey|the old GDM and wallpaper images should maybe remain default, with the hot chicks as an alternative  :)02:35
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|trey|sepheebear: agreed... thats one complaint from a corporation though... would seem its not acceptable... I say he's a prude, but he says he knew I'd think that  :/02:36
tolle_Hot chicks? Average I'd say.02:37
sepheebearyou'd think "professional" people would be smart enough to figure out how to change the durn GDM theme, or just hire a geek to make them a "custom" iso with whatever "corporate approved" image they want02:37
|trey|The images didn't make "junior happy", so I don't think its too risky...02:37
mjrprofessional schmofessional, but yeah, as a practical matter, considering how shocked some puritans are, I'd not make that the default02:37
|trey|tolle_: bah, the blond is hot  :/02:37
tolle_Realy, I study at a swedish university with over 2/3's girls, I get my fair share of blondes. And I say average.02:38
mkyc-ubuntufrom a corporate perspective i have to say sure they can but theyre not ever going to touch something like that for a start02:38
sepheebeari say, as a professional myself, "lighten up!"02:38
willtolle_: not so many swedish girls are blonde though02:38
|trey|tolle_: Then I need to move to where you live...02:38
joemdo corporations really just throw stock installs on all of their boxes with out any sort of changes?02:38
tolle_will: No, but quite a few.02:38
mkyc-ubuntujoem - no02:39
mkyc-ubuntubut theyre not running linux boxes either02:39
willi live in stockholm and most swedes bleach their hair!02:39
joemsome are :)02:39
sepheebeari see more professionals at the nudie bar after hours than i do at any church02:39
mkyc-ubuntutrue some are 02:39
|trey|If the blonde is average is sweeden, I'm moving there asap.02:39
willswedish girls are very fit i have to say though02:39
mkyc-ubuntubut semi naked or naked chicks as a default desktop are not going to increase take up by corporate customers of a distro02:39
tolle_I live in Ume, up north. And dang.02:39
tolle_like 2 good looking girls per ugly guy.02:40
willume? is nice, and lule?!02:40
=== |trey| just knows he'd hit it 8)
willcold though02:40
xcasextolle_; poor you ;_;02:40
xcasextolle_; i used to live up there02:40
tolle_mkyc-ubuntu: this the year 2004, the us of a is probably the only place where that image would be concidered offencive.02:40
tolle_realy, I do not know anyone, undependant of age here around that would find it offencive.02:41
xcasextolle_; they censor the DOVE soap commercial in the us.02:41
willis debian swedish then?02:41
mjrtolle_, well, there are some mid-eastern countries where it probably would be...02:41
sepheebearmaybe Ubuntu's just not as "corporate" as they would have it.... ahh finally, Linux for us humans who aint afraid to take it off in front of other people!02:41
tolle_mjr: yeah thats true.02:41
xcasexsepheebear; lol02:41
mkyc-ubuntutolle_,  i'm in australia and i can say without a word of a lie it would offensive in any corporate environment i can think of02:42
|trey|tolle_: I agree... I don't think many corporations would consider it risky either... but eh  :/02:42
mkyc-ubuntumy company WOULD sack anyone who used an image like that as a wallpaper02:42
|trey|Like I said, that dude is a fucking prude!02:42
|trey|mkyc-ubuntu: eh, they have clothes damnit02:42
mjryes he is02:42
tolle_mkyc-ubuntu: but they arnt doing anything. its just a friendly picture of some people.02:42
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mkyc-ubuntui dont make the rules02:42
mjrsadly, sometimes prudes have some influence02:43
mkyc-ubuntugo figure 02:43
xcasexthe problem with the internet is that there's no way we can verify that the people nagging about the artwork are really employed at a company or if they are jsut venting their prejudice02:43
tolle_mkyc-ubuntu: no i know, im just saying that its pretty silly how up tight some groups are.02:43
mkyc-ubuntumy boss is legendary for his affairs yet semi naked images are a sacking offence....02:43
mkyc-ubuntuoh i agree02:43
mkyc-ubuntusome people need to lighten up i think02:43
sepheebearwhy not keep the "risque" iso for us and sell another vanilla "suit and tie" for the corporate muckety-mucks?02:43
mkyc-ubuntuand its only a damn picture02:44
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mkyc-ubuntuwhy not use a basic boring image as default and have a risque choice?02:44
mkyc-ubuntusolves everyones problem02:44
richnrockvillemdFrom a complete novice at Linux and who just installed Ubuntu on a laptop under VPC, I find that the "evangilists" sure have a short memory. I like the logon screen. It is not sexual and at my age, I am definately not a prude...... If the Ubuntu developers do their stuff as the other distributions have done theirs, then nothing will stand out. What a bunch of Pus##ies.  Get with the program and worry about the technical d02:44
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|trey|sepheebear: the old image was fine... I even like the new one's message... just put them in more clothes, and everyone is happy  :/02:44
mkyc-ubuntuyep i agree02:45
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tolle_|trey|: yeah, it could be done in a smoother way.02:45
richnrockvillemdI want to put in the cdrom and let it go, eventually bringing me up to a familiar gui that I can use..02:45
mkyc-ubuntumore clothes and no one will complain02:45
sepheebearspeak for yourself, the guy in the picture looks pretty darn happy to me02:45
tolle_mkyc-ubuntu: but the picture wouldnt look as good.02:45
richnrockvillemdas I said, what a bunch of P... ies..02:46
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tolle_realy, it would look alot worse with some ugly shirts and stuff on.02:46
|trey|I would be too... 2 nekkid girls  :/02:46
opiwhy, oh why are Ubuntu res. so sloow :/02:46
|trey|tolle_: I don't think more clothes will take anything from the message.02:46
tolle_|trey|: no, realy not.02:46
xcasextolle_; makes you wonder really, do they object to united colours of benetton commercials as well.?02:47
tolle_|trey|: but would it look as "good" from a artistic point of view? I say put on clothes. just saying that it would realy look as good.02:47
mkyc-ubuntusuprispingly many people do02:47
richnrockvillemdMany of my friends who are Unix junkies don't know what clean clothes are, anyway :)02:47
sepheebearhow bout they take another pic with them all in Ubuntu logo shirts, happy now?02:47
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|trey|Image just clarifies what the logo is meant to mean... holding hands, community...02:47
mkyc-ubunturichnrockvillemd, yes but ubuntu isnt aiming itself at your unix junkie friends is it?02:47
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opigeeez, is there a flamewar about Ubunt's login screen?02:47
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xcasexopi yeah02:47
tolle_opi: no, just a friendly discussion02:47
sepheebeartrey: ...and skin! ;-)02:47
opiI must say, I like it02:48
xcasexopi some people are really tightly wound upp02:48
opilooks cute and friendly02:48
opibut I guess you can't staisfy everyone :/02:48
xcasex^^^^ amen02:48
mkyc-ubunturichard morell has a very good point, its something that should be carefully read and considered02:48
richnrockvillemdExactly, I am not a unix junkie. But the people who are so adamnantly opposed to the logo are mostly the unix junkies who are probably sitting before their computer in their week old underwear if any at all :)02:48
tolle_opi: yeah, realy warm and friendly.02:48
|trey|opi: some dude on the mailing lists said its not proffesional... many appear to agree... most agree that the image should be changed so as to not lose users...02:49
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mg*i* think the new image is great for glossies - leaflets, fancy presentations etc - but it doesn't work on the computer. it's the sort of image that gets very tiring after a short period of time.02:49
mkyc-ubuntu|trey|, the problem is that richard is not just some guy02:49
|trey|mg: not so much... I don't log in that much  :/02:49
sepheebearthe more i look at it the more i like it... just needs a userlist so i dont have to type my username in all the time02:49
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|trey|mkyc-ubuntu: to me he is just some guy  :/02:49
mkyc-ubuntuhe carries a lot of weight and attention and its people like him who need to support the project02:50
|trey|Some guy in a company that thought it was offensive... doesn't matter who he is...02:50
mkyc-ubuntuyes but to many others Richard is an outspoken linux supporter and evangelilst02:50
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|trey|Like I said, doesn't matter... still upset him  :/02:50
mgi wouldn't even mind an image like that on the front of the CD-ROM cover.02:50
richnrockvillemdSo are you all going to let one person dictate to the rest of y ou all, Like I said, bunch of Pu##ies..02:50
mkyc-ubuntuhave you all read his post?02:51
richnrockvillemdps: just some of you :)02:51
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|trey|richnrockvillemd: why leave *some* unpleased when you *can* please all on a matter?02:51
solsTiCemkyc-ubuntu: where ?02:51
xcasexso uh, what has richard morell done and why should we listen to him?02:51
opiI just went to other room and show this login screen to my girlfriend02:51
tolle_anyways, off for some beer.02:51
mkyc-ubuntuif not then i suggest you do so, his comments are vey usefull02:51
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sepheebeartrue, it's be an awesome CD cover image02:51
mkyc-ubuntuthats the post we are talking about02:51
opishe said it's nice photo and it has good connection with loho02:51
solsTiCemkyc-ubuntu: thanks02:51
richnrockvillemdNo one, can please everyone.02:52
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opianyway, Im goign to kill myself02:52
sepheebearseems like it's a little chilly in that room for the blonde02:52
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opi~4kb/s from Ubuntu's archive :(02:52
tolle_opi: where do you live?02:52
|trey|richnrockvillemd: on this we can though... corporations will be paying the devels wages... if they say its not professional, it can't be considered for a default, end of story.02:53
opitolle_: Poland02:53
danielsopi: it's reasonably quick from Australia, and nothing else is, trust me ;)02:53
opitolle_: other servers ain't any better02:53
tolle_opi: try ftp.acc.umu.se as a mirror instead.02:53
opitolle_: I'll do that, wait :)02:53
mkyc-ubunturichard is angy because he has pushed the distro to corporate clients, clients who now have installed a distro that when its upgraded gets that image as its login... it might not mean much to anyone not working in a corprate environment but to those who does its gives us chills02:53
tolle_opi: acc has a rather wide pipe.02:53
danielsrichnrockvillemd: please try to stay constructive and on-topic.02:53
sepheebearpolitics and bull-pucky02:53
|trey|daniels: he was on topic... technically  :)02:54
mkyc-ubuntuso linux doesnt want corporate desktops?02:54
richnrockvillemdIf one picture is going to ruin a newbies image of Linux, then they are pretty shallow and their mind is already made up to defeat something, they were probably pre disposed to not like something before they had a chance to look at the technical capabilities of it.02:54
daniels|trey|: yes, but I haven't seen anything much constructive for a while02:54
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mkyc-ubunturichnrockvillemd, do you work in corporate IT ?02:54
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tsengjdub: yeah maybe tommorow @ tomboy02:55
|trey|mkyc-ubuntu: it certainly does. Hence why I said it should just be changed... the image as it is now + clothes.02:55
jldsorry, i don't speak english.02:55
jldI finish installing ubuntu and, when reinitiating the PC, loading has thrown me "GRUB..."02:55
sepheebearrichnrockvillemd: i second that. excuses are easy to come by for any loser looking for one02:55
jld"GRUB loading, please wait... Error 17"02:55
richnrockvillemdI have several clients who are mainly windows people and have asked me to look into linux. I would have not hesitation in giving them a rc as they are not prudes..02:55
|trey|daniels: I don't think I have seen anything constructive from him at all... just pointing out the part he was doing right  ;)02:55
jldsome suggestion?02:55
mkyc-ubuntuyes and it makes the job of people like me who spend our time pushing linux to our employers and boards that much harder02:55
mkyc-ubuntuif that image is now the default i cannot show ubuntu to my board like i have been pushing to do02:56
xcasextseng; have you given any thought to adding best & beagle to the repo?02:56
tsengxcasex: no02:56
|trey|mkyc-ubuntu: I agree it should be changed. Ubuntu is about community, and the new image depicts that better then the logo... but the image should be more professional.02:56
tsenga few people are working on beagle already02:56
xcasextseng; aight02:56
mkyc-ubuntui agree |trey|02:56
tsengwhat is best02:56
mjg59Begle is awkward because it needs CVS DBUS02:57
richnrockvillemdI have installed it on a machine, told it to autologon, just like their windows machines do and they are very pleased. They never get to the logon screen. Works for me and themm02:57
xcasextseng; the ui component of beagle02:57
mkyc-ubuntua few more clothes and everyone is happy, i think its a great concept02:57
tsengxcasex: ah.02:57
mkyc-ubunturichnrockvillemd, no corporate PC EVER auto logs on02:57
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yuvalHi. How can I get back the Debian's menu in GNOME? I want it for all the games or KDE apps my family want...02:57
sepheebearokay, take the image off the login and make it into a screensaver! that way they wont catch on so quick and will have a chance to see the merits of the desktop before their corporate sanctum is invaded02:57
mkyc-ubuntuwhich explains my point - i dont want to be rud but its impossible to understand what goes on in that level without understranding it02:58
opitolle_: d'oh, it's not mutch faster :(02:58
tolle_opi: strange..02:58
opitolle_: I guess my ISP have a bad day02:58
tolle_opi: probably.02:58
|trey|yuval: just install Debian's 'menu' package.02:58
richnrockvillemdSmall business's pc, almost all of mine do because they want it to just work, they don't hav eto log on to their ibm selectric typewriters and their computers are just an extension of their work desk.02:58
opitolle_: I should get around ~40kb/s02:58
yuvalmenu is already the newest version.02:58
|trey|yuval: its not the debian version though  :/02:58
mkyc-ubuntuyes richnrockvillemd but thats not how corporates work02:58
|trey|yuval: else you would get a new menu called "Debian"  :/02:59
yuval|trey|: OK, I'll try it...02:59
|trey|yuval: failing that, you could just add the apps?02:59
richnrockvillemdMost of my friends who are "corporate" run windows and your correct, they log into a domain and require passwords. but the small 2-3 person offices normally don't run domains.02:59
|trey|"Add new item to list"03:00
|trey|richnrockvillemd: no one is really interested in 2-3 person networks... they might as well be home users  :/03:00
mkyc-ubunturichnrockvillemd, correct again but im not talking about 2-3 person offices, im talking 2000-300003:00
richnrockvillemdBut, they really pay the rent and allow me to buy all the toys that I want. :)03:01
|trey|richnrockvillemd: when someone says "business use", they usually mean ATLEAST 500-1000 machines.03:01
mkyc-ubuntulinux winning in a large corporate is a very different thing to 2-3 people03:01
mkyc-ubuntured hat owns corporate03:01
mkyc-ubuntubecause they would never do something like this, they are trusted03:01
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richnrockvillemdsorry goto go. enjoy03:01
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|trey|mkyc-ubuntu: I can't wait for the Netscape purchases to be included in Ubuntu/Fedora  8)03:02
opiI bet ancients greeks wouldn't mind to have sutch login screen03:03
|trey|Most important thing in corporate networks = LDAP imo... Linux with a good UI for this that *is* Open Source = great thing!03:03
danielsmjg59: what specifically from D-BUS do you need? we can probably backport it03:04
sepheebearwhat's the correct pronunciation for "Ubuntu"? is it something like "oo-boon-too"?03:04
mkyc-ubuntumost important thing in most corporates is integration03:04
yuval|trey|: Installing Deibian's menu package, update-menus and restrating gnome-panal didn't work. I think I need Deiban's gnome-panel package... but it 2.6 one.. I'll try it.03:04
mkyc-ubuntuwith stuff like exchange and other apps that are pre-existing03:04
danielssepheebear: exactly :)03:04
Lathiatyuval: your asking for trouble there03:04
|trey|sepheebear: I've been pronouncing it "uh bun two"03:04
danielssepheebear: 'Oooh oooh oooh! Ubuntu!'03:04
sepheebearah cool thanx03:04
danielsTreenaks: oooh-oooh-oooh03:04
mkyc-ubuntui go with uh bun two03:04
|trey|Lathiat: *cough* you're *cough*03:04
=== Lathiat bats |trey|
Lathiatso many people catch me on that one :P03:05
=== opi puts googles on ;)
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=== |trey| yells at opi
Lathiat|trey|: i thought ti was uh bun tuh 03:05
=== opi runs to see apt-get progres
|trey|Lathiat: thats harder to say  :/03:05
|trey|opi: [angryface]   ;)03:06
|trey|uh bun two sounds better  8)03:06
opiUbuntu is quite easy to pronounce in Polish03:06
Lathiatyou bun two :P03:06
yuvalLathiat: I'll only try it. It should also get rid of "About Ubuntu" from the menu...03:06
Lathiatyeh i admin i have to try to pronounce uh bun tu03:06
Lathiatyuval: what are you trying to do?03:06
Lathiatmake your ubuntu look like debian ? :P03:07
yuvalMaybe. I want that all my apps will be in the menu automatically... 03:08
|trey|yuval: eh... why would you want that gone?03:08
=== |trey| goes back to football, second half :)
Lathiatyuval: all mine appear....03:08
opi|trey|: who's playing?03:08
Lathiat2.6/2.8 changed the panel a fair bit03:08
|trey|Man Utd vs Birmingham... would rather Arsenal, but blah  :/03:08
|trey|Lathiat: not at all... Ubuntu changed it though  :/03:09
opi|trey|: Arsenal fan, eh? :)03:09
|trey|opi: Indeed  :)03:09
opi|trey|: I like English football overall03:09
|trey|Lathiat: you haven't used GNOME 2.8 from upstream yet huh?03:09
opi|trey|: but I enjoy mostly Livepool, Aresnal & Newcastle03:09
sivangI have installed the RC and now get 2 sound systesm, OSS and ALSA. anybody know a way to remove the OSS ?03:09
Lathiat|trey|: haha i run gnome cvs on my other machine :)03:10
Lathiati wasnt referring to those changes03:10
|trey|opi: eh... I like any game where England players are included, but support Arsenal  :)03:10
Lathiatother stuff inside the panel, the adding applets stuff, etc03:10
Lathiatwonder if 2.8 is in debian experimental or unstable yet03:10
|trey|Lathiat: oh... I noticed no other changes... care to enlighten me?  :)03:10
Lathiat|trey|: the add applet to panel dialog etc03:10
yuval|trey|: Because It just firefox with ubuntu... I have Ubuntu in my bookmarks, and I don't think it should be in the menu. It's not so usefull...03:10
Lathiatitl probably work but 03:10
|trey|Lathiat: Its in experimental that I checked... not unstable yet though...03:10
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sepheebeari read somewhere 2.8 wont go into unstable until after sarge is released03:11
opiso it's ,,two more weeks'' ;)03:11
Lathiatwhich'l be the middle of next millenia03:11
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lord_chaossivang: which oss packages seem to be installed ?03:11
DMJChow did they create the computer menu in ubuntu linux?03:11
|trey|Lathiat: eh... the actual panel didn't change though  :/03:11
sivanglord_chaos : let's see.03:11
Lathiat|trey|: some internals might have03:11
sepheebeari've never been able to install 2.8 from experimental successfully03:11
|trey|I actually don't think I like that UI  :/03:11
Lathiathmm my trash applet icons broken03:12
Lathiatits squashed03:12
|trey|They aren't grouped at all... makes it harder to find things  :/03:12
Lathiatit pisses me off not having Run Aplication in the "right" place03:12
|trey|Lathiat: I saw that with Human... changed back to default icons...03:12
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yuval|trey|: the default homepage for all the browsers is ubuntu. I don't think you should push it so much.03:12
sivanglord_chaos : ah nevermind :) it's just the OSS emulation layer of ALSA, then guess everything's cool03:13
|trey|Lathiat: makes more sense to be in Applications imo  :/03:13
sepheebearthat trash applet doesnt seem to be very stable, it disappears on me oftentimes03:13
DMJCIhow do you edit that?03:13
Lathiatit does but im not used to it P:)03:13
|trey|I just wish there was a system terminal in Computer > System Configuration  :/03:13
lord_chaossivang: that's what I suspected ;-)03:13
|trey|s/system terminal/root terminal/03:13
DMJChow do you edit the Applications/Actions menus in gnome?03:13
sivanglord_chaos : Yeah, OSS is long deprecated. No reason to have it's packages installed on something advanced as Ubuntu :)03:14
LathiatDMJC: its config file/gconf stuff03:14
|trey|I just with System Tools was in Computer actually  :/03:14
DMJCI started a little project recently03:14
|trey|Its the only menu that imo makes no sense  :/03:14
DMJCdon't know if anyone else has done the same thing03:14
DMJCdownloads the latest kernel, updates the /usr/src/linux symlink03:14
DMJCthen runs graphical configure, and builds/installs03:15
lord_chaosWhat happened to the firefox package in universe ?03:15
DMJCwithout opening a terminal once03:15
lord_chaosAre we back to version 0.9.3 ?03:15
|trey|lord_chaos: yes, due to java bugs...03:15
solsTiCeI first deinstalled the linux-images-386 and then installed the k7 image but synaptic reinstall the 386 and i have still two kernel, 03:15
lord_chaos|trey|: okay thanks03:16
|trey|solsTiCe: make sure linux-image-2.6-386 isn't installed... 03:16
|trey|solsTiCe: its a meta package for the latest 386 2.6 kernel... would be the only thing I would think of...03:17
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solsTiCe|trey|: ok but ithink i uninstalled it. by the way it is really a pb to have two kernels, is it?03:18
sepheebearthere's a graphical kernel configure/build tool? i've never made a kernel outside the terminal before. what's the name of the app?03:19
lord_chaossolsTiCe: it's no problem at all to have several kernels installed, in fact it can be a smart thing to do03:19
DMJChmm I found the gconf for applications:///03:20
Lathiatsepheebear: its in the kernel, make [kg] config03:20
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arturazhi. do we really need emacs in desktop system? :/03:28
arturaz10 mb is kinda much03:28
sepheebearreally? i've usually do menuconfig03:28
lord_chaosarturaz: i removed it03:28
arturazso no emacs at next release? woohoo!03:29
yuvalI have now deian gnome-panel with ubuntu gnome-applets. It works fine.03:29
sepheebearwho uses emacs??? vive la vi!!!!03:29
arturazsepheebear, yeah :)03:31
arturazvive la vim!03:31
lord_chaosarturaz: that's not what I meant; I removed it from my own box after the install ;-)03:31
lord_chaosarturaz: but you're right; I don't think it should be in the default install03:32
sepheebearoh yeah vim that's right03:32
yuvalDo you think ubuntu should show something like "Deiban menu" after you install a program that doesn't appear in gnome menu? Or always?03:32
arturazyuval, no, we don't need that03:32
arturazor that should be toggable :)03:33
arturazbtw guys, will u going to write extensions for controling system?03:33
sepheebeari find things tend to "get lost" in the debian menu. I prefer to make my own launchers, which keeps me from being too trigger happy with synaptic and keep better tabs on what i install03:34
solsTiCe|trey|: ok i have done it.03:34
yuvalarturaz: Way not? Don't  you think that a menu with all your apps in the system is more usefull than "About Ubuntu"?03:34
arturazyuval, users don't care about xeditres03:34
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arturazin fact, neither do i =] 03:35
sepheebeargood point03:35
arturazhowever this could be switchable03:36
yuvalbut they care about supertux, konqueror or ksomething...03:36
arturazyuval, kfoobar ain't gnome :P03:36
arturazand ubuntu specializes on gnome03:36
arturazget grab one of other zillion distros based on kde03:36
arturazand 'bout supertux - we should fix it03:36
arturazand add gnome launcher03:37
lord_chaosyuval: If the menu could be toggable I would maybe consider using it but it's way too much cluttered03:37
lord_chaosI want Firefoc 1.0pre back !!03:37
arturazi found very strange bug with debian's gtk build :/03:37
yuvallord_chaos: I don't it crash often on my system.03:38
arturazressizing issue in gtk2-perl03:38
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ShivCan I install Ubuntu in a SATA HD ?03:38
aitrusShiv: i'm running on a SATA system03:38
lord_chaosyuval: didn't have those problems, I loved that version03:38
aitrusShiv: there were some issues awhile back with the installer not detecting your SATA controller, but those have been resolved in recent releases03:39
Shivaitrus, but I have tried with Ubuntu and it don't find any HD's03:39
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yuvalarturaz: prefer gnome too, but sometimes I want to use gvim, kde apps or other then gnome-games games...03:40
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Shivaitrus, Then with RC release there wouldnt be any problem 03:40
Shivyeah ?03:40
arturazhmm, dudes, you could retune reportbug to use ubuntu bugzilla, couldn't you? :)03:41
aitrusShiv: try booting from the cd, then before you choose your language or anything (right after you boot), swap to a shell (alt-f2) and type  "modprobe ata_piix"03:41
lord_chaosShiv: why don't you download the daily build ?03:41
WW_When the release candidate Live CD is ready, will it be added to the UK download site?03:42
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danielsWW_: absolutely03:43
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WW_daniels: OK, thanks.  I had heard it might be available on Friday.03:44
danielspossibly, yeah03:44
WW_...but there is no sign of it.  Not a problem, of course. I was just checking.03:45
andredAnyone know why fonts looks non-standard on some sites using unusual character codings such as ISO-8859-2? For example, look at this site: http://www.lge.com/ . If you switch to UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 in Firefox the fonts look like normal.03:46
danielsandred: fonts are hard, let's go shopping03:46
WW_Is there a Live CD daily build, or is there an earlier version still available somewhere?  I'd like to fire it up on my laptop to see how well it works.03:46
aitrusis anyone else having issues with nautilus saying there's no blank media in your burner when there is?03:47
danielsthere's a test build at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty-live-20041015-20.iso03:47
lord_chaosWW_: theer isn't a live cd daily build yet03:47
aitrusit worked fine for me a week or so ago, but doesn't work today...03:47
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andreddaniels, Do fonts look bad on www.lge.com for you?03:48
danielsit may not work.  it may destroy your system and/or your professional life.  be warned. :)03:48
lord_chaosaitrus: had the same problem today, but I tried another disc ang it worked fine03:48
danielsandred: yeah03:48
aitruslord_chaos: i've tried two discs so far.... =/03:48
WW_daniels: Thanks again.03:48
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lord_chaosaitrus: yeah it seemed to work better before03:49
danielsWW_: no worries03:49
andreddaniels, Any ideas on where to file a bug on that? Is fontconfig making a misstake, or firefox?03:49
ygnomeandred: hmm looks fine under debian unstable...03:50
andredOr is Bitstream Vera broken perhaps03:50
aitruslord_chaos: there is a bug open about this03:50
andredygnome, What fonts do you have?03:50
aitruslord_chaos: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=226503:50
lord_chaosaitrus: try inserting/ejecting tyhe disc several times. after a few times my disc was detected...very erratic behaviour03:50
DMJCanyone know where you can get a big windows picture?03:50
lord_chaosaitrus: thanks03:50
DMJCthe microsoft logo?03:50
ygnomeandred: what am I looking for?03:50
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solsTiCeandred:  my fonts too have a weird look. but it might japanese fonts used to display ascii character ...03:51
ygnomeandred: I have the MS core fonts, rest is pretty much standard.03:51
solsTiCeandred: the fonts are not nice but i can read easily03:51
andredsolsTiCe, Yeah, it must be something like that.03:51
andredsolsTiCe, Because if one switches character encoding in Firefox it looks great.03:52
solsTiCeandred: yes if i switch to iso-8859-1 i got my standard vera sans again ;..03:52
DMJCfunny... they dominate the world yet it's still hard to get a decent picture of their logo03:52
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andredIt's not just on that Korean Character Coding either. This site uses ISO-8859-2, and the fonts look much more bold than if you switch to some other character coding. http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0410.2/0000.html03:56
GhostLinehello guys03:56
solsTiCesabdfl: hello. i made amistake ; via82cxxx is an ide module and an oss module via82cxx_audio is an oss module ...03:56
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DMJCI need a picture of the windows logo03:56
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DMJCpreferably 128x128 or bigger03:56
Lathiatto print and burn?03:56
ygnomeDMJC: u mean the flying windows flag thing?03:56
sabdflsolsTiCe: no worries03:56
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andredDMJC, This seams like a weird place to ask for such a thing:-)03:57
Lathiatno its the best place03:57
arturazLathiat, :D03:57
Lathiatprint it out and burn it :)03:57
GhostLineHum, I've a little prblem in installing Ubuntu on my second machine ... is someone ca help ?03:57
lord_chaosGhostLine: what kind of problem ?03:58
GhostLineI've my CDROM on IDE and my two HDD in SCSI on a SYM53C810 controller03:58
GhostLinethe HDD are not recongnized03:58
lord_chaosGhostLine: okay03:59
GhostLineinto the partition program of course03:59
lord_chaosGhostLine: the controller is probably not recognized03:59
GhostLineI think so ... I've search for explication on Google, the only thing I've found is a modification of the debian kernel ...04:00
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lord_chaosIs that an Asus controller ?04:01
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GhostLineno, it's SymBIOS04:01
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Snubbelcan someone tell me the std runlevel of ubuntu?04:03
sepheebearrlvl 204:03
sepheebearlook in /etc/inittab04:04
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xiximkopphello! anybody has a clue why the ubuntu gdesklets packages are sooo outdated?04:06
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arturazxiximkopp, universe?04:06
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xiximkopparturaz: yes04:07
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xiximkoppthe freshest package is 0.26.2-5ubuntu1 while the available source is 0.3004:10
lamontWW_: that livecd image is not a release candidate, but I'd love to get feedback on it.04:10
xiximkoppanybody knows why?04:10
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tfheenKamion: the initial "new user" dialog doesn't strip 8 bit chars.. it probably should.04:12
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sepheebearis it just me or is theme switching unreliable in gnome 2.8 as a whole?04:14
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aitruslord_chaos: i just posted a workaround for that cd-writing bug on bugzilla04:14
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billyany ubuntu user with epson stylus cx3100 printer ?04:15
winkleHi. I'm missing the "Develop"-entry in the menu, any ideas?04:16
Kamiontfheen: see bug #66804:16
avukowinkle: on how to add it, or on defal04:16
avuko...defaults for it04:17
Lathiatwinkle: its called programming here?04:17
winkleLathiat: Right, that's the name.04:17
tfheenKamion: ook04:17
winkleWonder why I don't have it, I have packages installed which adds icons there...04:18
Lathiatwinkle: logged out/in since?04:18
winkleLathiat: Ah, that's probably it.04:19
WW_lamont: I'll give it a shot... but it looks like I'll have to wait 5+ hours for the download!04:19
avukodoesn't it usually add them automagically, without the need to log in again? 04:19
lamontWW_: yeah.  therein lies the problem, eh?04:20
WW_A little question about Firefox:  I started downloading an ISO, but then hit Cancel in the download manager after about 1meg had been downloaded.  I then clicked on Clean Up in the download manager. I started downloading the same ISO, and it looks like the download started up where it had left off before.  Is this going to work?04:21
Lathiatavuko: not for me04:21
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