[12:03] <lobo_nz> sabdfl: It works fine on my home pc but on my work one It hung on first install then I made another user and gnome started slowly, now I can log into gnome as the first use made during install but I get this error 'Cannot save launcher to disk - Details: Error writing file 'file:///home/lobo/.gnome2/panel2.d/default/launchers/curly-...':Access denied'  I also get the same error for moe and hammer
[12:04] <lobo_nz> sabdfl: I dont get those errors on the new users I made since install
[12:04] <sabdfl> moe and hammer?
[12:04] <ogra> lobo_nz: how did you create them ? 
[12:04] <lobo_nz> the file at the end of the errors are all curl-kafoahdaldg then moe-jsdsdgsdg etc
[12:05] <lobo_nz> Iogra: I installed ubuntu on my work pc and logged into gnome
[12:05] <lobo_nz> *ogra
[12:06] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[12:06] <tseng> lo jdub 
[12:07] <thursday> TEAM AMERICA?
[12:08] <sabdfl> AND LOVERS OF HUMANITY AND STYLISH ART!
[12:08] <swim> could anyone tell me what the xf86 config file is called?
[12:08] <ogra> lobo_nz: the files are launchers, the funny names are actually correct filenames 
[12:09] <azeem> swim: /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
[12:09] <ogra> pretty silent here regarding the mailing list
[12:09] <azeem> swim: but you should avoid to edit it manually
[12:09] <azeem> if possible
[12:09] <lobo_nz> ogra: yes I know, I checked the perms on those files to see if there was a problem but the pers are the same as on my other pc which has had no trouble at all
[12:09] <swim> azeem nah Ive edited it manny many times
[12:10] <ogra> lobo_nz: how did you acrually create the users ? with the users-admin tool from gnome ?
[12:11] <lobo_nz> ogra: no I couldn't log into gnome so I ssh'd in from another pc and used sudo useradd -m lobo2
[12:13] <lobo_nz> ogra: if I reboot I can no longer log in as the 1st user untill I log in as another user then log out and log in as the first user which is when I get the 3 errors wrinting to those files
[12:13] <andred> Hmm, when I updated to the latest HAL in Ubuntu, Nautilus windows were automatically opened during the installation. The open windows corresponded to my filesystem entries in /etc/fstab.
[12:16] <WW_> I am looking at a web page that has samples of speech, and they are in .rm format.  Is .rm just for sound, or does it also have video?
[12:17] <WW_> andred: That's a known bug.
[12:18] <ogra> lobo_nz: odd... did the prob come up on a default install ? or did you tweak anything before ?
[12:19] <lobo_nz> ogra: First I did an update from an old iso (before the RC) during the install and got the problem, I then downloaded the RC iso and got the same problem - both times during my first login to gnome
[12:19] <swim>  Im dieng to find a wireless mouse with a little reciever, that is NOT mini, is normal to large mouse size...
[12:22] <lobo_nz> ogra: I would normally think it was a hardware problem but everything else works fine, X windows works, once I have a terminal I can copy files around etc, the install all went smoothly aswell so I am a bit confused on where to look to figure out whats wrong
[12:23] <swim> I would even be grateful for a corded regular sized mouse that had a retractable cord
[12:23] <solsTiCe> what is the difference between mulitverse and universe ? are they different repository ? for diffrent release? 
[12:24] <WW_> solsTiCe: I think multiverse is non-free stuff.
[12:25] <lobo_nz> solsTiCe: multiverse is also not supported via security updates
[12:25] <solsTiCe> WW_: i see universe metionned in sources.list and multiverse somewhere on the wiki
[12:25] <WW_> Sorry for repeating myself: Is .rm a sound format, or sound and video?
[12:26] <WW_> (.rm is RealMedia, right?)
[12:26] <TerminX> sound and video
[12:26] <TerminX> yes
[12:26] <TerminX> .ra is the audio one
[12:27] <ogra> lobo_nz: the permissions in .gnome2 could be a starting point
[12:27] <TerminX> or maybe .ra is just an .rm without video named differently
[12:27] <TerminX> who cares, real sucks
[12:27] <WW_> I'm trying to listen to samples of speech (in Czech) on a web page, and the format of the samples is .rm
[12:28] <TerminX> well, nobody said .rm absolutely had to have video though
[12:28] <WW_> When I click on when, a window pops up to ask if I want to save the file or open it with totem.
[12:28] <TerminX> I think mplayer plays real
[12:28] <WW_> I was wondering if I could set up Firefox to just play it automatically.
[12:28] <WW_> ..and without the video part.
[12:29] <TerminX> you want it to automatically play only the audio part?
[12:29] <lobo_nz> ogra: The permissions in gnome2 are identical to my other pc with ubuntu on which has no problems, I even tried chmodding to 777 but still got the error
[12:30] <WW_> TerminX:  Well, just playing it automatically would be fine.  The default player is totem, and it pops up a silly graphics thing while playing the sound. 
[12:30] <WW_> TerminX: I could do without that graphics stuff.
[12:31] <WW_> But those are details.  I guess my basic question is: How to I set up firefox to automatically open certain file extensions with a given application automatically?
[12:32] <TerminX> er, isn't there a check box for that right on the download window or something
[12:33] <WW_> TerminX: But I don't want it to pop up a download window.
[12:33] <TerminX> no, I mean a checkbox to set it to do something by default
[12:34] <WW_> TerminX: I can't find anything relevant in Edit->Preferences.
[12:35] <ogra> lobo_nz: try moving the dir to .gnome2.bak and try a login
[12:35] <WW_> TerminX: and Tools->Extensions brings up an empty window.
[12:35] <TerminX> WW_: um.. when you click a file, and it asks to download, there is an "open with" ratio button, and then a huge checkbox below it that says "do this automatically for files like this from now on"
[12:35] <TerminX> are you blind?
[12:36] <lobo_nz> ogra: I just tried that right now and am looking a a brown screen waiting for the naked people
[12:36] <WW_> TerminX: Yes, I am blind. Why do you ask?
[12:37] <WW_> TerminX: :-)  Thanks.
[12:37] <ogra> lobo_nz: probably moving only .gnome2 is not enough...
[12:37] <TerminX> yep
[12:37] <TerminX> :p
[12:40] <LinuxJones> evening everybody !!
[12:40] <lobo_nz> ogra: I think I will delete the user and use one of the other I made for a while and see if I have any trouble, I added another user to the sudoers so hopefully will have admin privs
[12:41] <ogra> lobo_nz: don't forget  the groups ;)
[12:43] <lobo_nz> ogra: Yes did those too just about forgot tho
[12:44] <holger> Hi, is there a nice way to install mplayer. I didn't found a working instruction while googeling.
[12:44] <ogra> holger: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats
[12:45] <socomm> holger: http://samesoft.sf.net/juan
[12:46] <socomm> holger: I wrote that tutorial, regretably it isn't my best work.
[12:47] <ogra> holger: follow the instructions in the last block, then you can install it with synaptic
[12:47] <socomm> holger: though it should get you where you wanna go ;)
[12:47] <Ng> socomm: adding mplayer into the list in the "legally questionable packages" section might be a big help
[12:48] <Ng> I'd offer to do it, but the page is immutable ;)
[12:50] <Ng> oops, my bad, I wasn't logged in
[12:55] <socomm> Huh?
[12:55] <holger> orga: i did this before, but got dependencies for 3 packages that shouldn't be installed
[12:55] <socomm> Ng: where you refering to synaptic?
[12:55] <Ng> socomm: on that RestrictedFormats page, at the bottom it lists some of the stuff you can get from marillat's repository, but it doesn't mention mplayer. people searching for getting mplayer to work could find that and get it straight away
[12:55] <SmokingFire> when my sound stalls when doing a lot things. Who's fault is it?
[12:55] <socomm> Ng: Oh, okay.
[12:55] <holger> ogra: libartsc0, libggi2, libungif4g 
[12:55] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, how much ram do you have ?
[12:55] <Ng> socomm: depends if you want to encourage people to use mplayer I spose ;)
[12:55] <socomm> SmokingFire: it's your fault. Repent and say 100 hail maries.
[12:55] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: 512MB, AMD 2500 XP +
[12:57] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, yikes taht's a good machine. Check "top" to see what is taking up all of your system resources.
[12:57] <socomm> Ng: guess it wouldn't be too smart for the Ubuntu folks to encourage that.
[12:57] <SmokingFire> Just wondering, as I have used Beos (however not under the same load) if this is an issue that can be solved by better multithreading.
[12:57] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: whats "top"?
[12:58] <Ng> socomm: that's for them to decide I guess. The list does include the w32codecs and dvd stuff, which is just as sketchy as mplayer ;)
[12:58] <socomm> SmokingFire: top is a command.
[12:58] <Ng> SmokingFire: what soundcard do you have?
[12:58] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, it shows you the processes running on your machine and has their memory usage ...etc
[12:58] <SmokingFire> Ng: I have a soundblaster live! value
[12:58] <Ng> any machine will starve the soundcard if you push it hard enough, but cheap crappy soundcards do it way earlier
[12:58] <socomm> top (1)              - display Linux tasks
[12:58] <Ng> SmokingFire: oh, that really ought to work fine up until the machine is almost dying with load :/
[12:58] <socomm> SmokingFire: you can alway issue the command 'whatis program' at the command line to get a short description of the program you've chose.
[12:58] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: To be honest I was doing a apt-get install dist-upgrade, but still I want my multimedia and screen refreshes to be normal.
[12:59] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, even still your system should handle that easliy. Are you running many services on your system ?
[01:00] <ogra> holger: whats wrong with these libs ?
[01:00] <idle0ne> will ubuntu run slow or fast with 128mb ram, i am running mdk 10.1 now and it's ol
[01:00] <idle0ne> *ok
[01:00] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: not that I know. well have some applications loaded but most are inactive when not used.
[01:01] <socomm> idle0ne: what's the g/mHz is your processor.
[01:01] <idle0ne> 1.4ghz P4 
[01:01] <socomm> s/is/of
[01:01] <idle0ne> this is a temporary system
[01:01] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, there are a few ways to look @ the services running on your machine try lsof -i
[01:02] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: from the command top: I have 80 tasks running 79 are in sleep mode.
[01:02] <idle0ne> ordering a new one within 2 weeks but this will be my *nix server when i get the new one and i will be running linux on the new one as well
[01:02] <socomm> idle0ne: should run pretty fast. I'm running Ubuntu on a 633 celeri and it's pretty snappie.
[01:02] <idle0ne> socomm: have you used mandrake before?
[01:02] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, you may have some unnecesary services running try lsof -i or netstat -tap
[01:03] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: lsof -i gives me: two instances of gnome-cup, one of rhytmnbox and three for gaim (correct three irc servers_
[01:04] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, that's not bad what does netstat -tap output ?
[01:07] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: wait doing a sudo lsof - i gives me some more: I got famd, two times master, three times ntpd,  cupsd three times, portmap 2 times, gnome-cup 2 times, rhythembox, and three for gaim. 
[01:07] <lrn> how can  i check my gtk version ?
[01:07] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, heh sorry I just assumed you were in an administrative shell ;D
[01:08] <SmokingFire> ok, I try not to be
[01:08] <socomm> gtk-query-immodules-2.0
[01:08] <idle0ne> hmm i dont see any installs for i586, will i386 work for me? i never understood the differences
[01:08] <lrn> 2.4.0 is the newest gtk version ?
[01:09] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, I don't do any services like printing from this computer much, so I usually just stop all of those services and start them as I need them.
[01:09] <socomm> lrn: I think so.
[01:09] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: don't you think this an issue of a process (although wanted) taking over the whole machine on a desktop machine? I mean on a server/workstation I would understand but desktop is multitasking unless specifically specified.
[01:09] <socomm> http://www.gtk.org/
[01:09] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: How do you stop the printing services and also keep them down on a reboot?
[01:10] <socomm> 2.4.13 is the newest.
[01:10] <lrn> socomm how can i update it for my ubuntu ?
[01:10] <socomm> /etc/init.d/cupsys stop
[01:11] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, something is gobbling up your resources, I have a simialr machine and have no problems compiling a kernel, webbrowsing etc.. while listening to music.
[01:11] <socomm> lrn: use synaptic, or from the command line run `apt-get upgrade'
[01:11] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, /etc/init.d/cupsys stop  then update-rc.d -f cupsys remove
[01:12] <socomm> lrn: though ubuntu most likely has not upgraded to gtk 2.4.13 yet.
[01:12] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: remove doesn't uninstall?
[01:13] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, it jsut removes the symlinks from your runlevels so that it will not start again @ next boot
[01:16] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: thanks
[01:16] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, np ;)
[01:16] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: what kind of system do you use
[01:16] <lrn> how can i make my oidentd r
[01:17] <lrn> how can i make my oidentd runs automaticly when the system gets start ?
[01:17] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, Athlon 2200 with 512 MB ram SB Live Value and GF2 (32 MB) MX video card
[01:17] <SmokingFire> Do linux daeomons have an option like on Win NT for starting a service manually?
[01:17] <lrn> yes
[01:17] <lrn> service proc start|restart|stop
[01:18] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, or you can start them by doing /etc/init.d/<ServiceScriptName> start
[01:18] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: like mine but I have barton 2500, same ram and sound but gf4 mx 64MB. Weird that your system doesn't stall on high loads.
[01:18] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, what kernel are you running ?
[01:19] <SmokingFire> lrn LinuxJones: I want them to start when an application needs them.
[01:19] <Ng> SmokingFire: cat /proc/interrupts    is the sound card sharing an IRQ with something? wondering if it's getting starved by the bus or something
[01:19] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, you can use inetd to do that.
[01:19] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: linux 2.6.something-k7
[01:20] <Ng> SmokingFire: (the soundcard will be EMU10K1)
[01:20] <SmokingFire> Ng: 201:   10186183   IO-APIC-level  EMU10K1, nvidia
[01:21] <Ng> that's not horrifically bad and wouldn't explain high load breaking it :/
[01:21] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, inetd will listen for service requests and start the requested service when needed by an application (like cups for printing as an example).
[01:21] <SmokingFire> Ng: if I would move the soundcard to another pci slot would that change the IRQ?
[01:22] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: this happens automagically or has the application have to be programming for this?
[01:22] <Ng> SmokingFire: probably, but I doubt it's that. if it had been an IDE controller sharing the IRQ or something then maybe, but high system load isn't going to make the graphics card get super busy
[01:23] <Ng> and sharing IRQs seems to work pretty well these days anyway, so it shouldn't be that at all ;)
[01:23] <compdude> when is the next version coming out? approximately if you have to..
[01:23] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, you can get the irq changed by updating the escd (or ecsd) in your system bios.
[01:23] <Ng> but it shouldn't be skipping either
[01:24] <Ng> wonder if not having hard disk DMA could do it, have you checked that? (I haven't been following closely)
[01:24] <SmokingFire> I do admit it was compiling the latest upgrades for ubuntu, so I'm not disappointed at it, you know.
[01:24] <LinuxJones> Ng, good call :D
[01:25] <ogra> comp:http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/HoaryHedgehog_2fReleaseSchedule
[01:25] <SmokingFire> Ng: no DMA? But my HD has 8mb cache it would be badly used then?
[01:26] <Ng> SmokingFire: DMA is a way of accessing things that doesn't involve the CPU. If it's not enabled disk access uses lots of CPU time, especially something like compiling/upgrading. hdparm -v /dev/hda   (hda or whatever your boot drive is) will tell you if you are using dma
[01:27] <socomm> DMA == Direct Memory Access, nyet?
[01:27] <SmokingFire> ng:/dev/hda:
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  multcount    =  0 (off)
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  IO_support   =  0 (default 16-bit)
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  unmaskirq    =  0 (off)
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  using_dma    =  0 (off)
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  keepsettings =  0 (off)
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  readonly     =  0 (off)
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  readahead    = 256 (on)
[01:27] <SmokingFire>  geometry     = 65535/16/63, sectors = 160086528, start = 0
[01:28] <Ng> SmokingFire: bingo, that's a very likely candidate, it's set to off
[01:28] <Ng> socomm: yeah
[01:28] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, now do a test hdparm -Tt /dev/hda
[01:28] <SmokingFire> Ng: weird its off by default, though ubuntu put it on by default.
[01:28] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, you will see a HUGE difference
[01:28] <compdude> so. um. maybe i didn't get this. I have to wait to april 2005 to download a new release?
[01:28] <Ng> SmokingFire: hdparm -d1c1 /dev/hda   will enable dma and 32bit access. then do the -Tt again, then load your system up again.
[01:28] <Ng> SmokingFire: I dunno, I would have thought it would
[01:29] <Randomize> Compdude:  The "official" releases will be slated for every 6 months.  That doesn't necessarily mean there won't be incremental updates / releases between.
[01:29] <ogra> compdude: after next wednesday, yes
[01:29] <Ng> there are other options that will help even more, but I'm not going to advise messing with hdparm too much at this time of night ;)
[01:29] <SmokingFire> with dma and 32 bit off:/dev/hda:
[01:29] <SmokingFire>  Timing buffer-cache reads:   1636 MB in  2.00 seconds = 817.31 MB/sec
[01:29] <SmokingFire>  Timing buffered disk reads:   10 MB in  3.23 seconds =   3.10 MB/sec
[01:29] <Ng> 3.10!
[01:29] <LinuxJones> lol
[01:29] <Ng> is your machine doing anything else at the moment?
[01:30] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, no wonder your comp is choking while dist-upgrading :P
[01:30] <compdude> after next wednesday a new release?
[01:30] <SmokingFire> with dma and 32 bit on: Timing buffer-cache reads:   1504 MB in  2.00 seconds = 750.99 MB/sec
[01:30] <SmokingFire>  Timing buffered disk reads:  152 MB in  3.02 seconds =  50.37 MB/sec
[01:30] <SmokingFire> much better :)
[01:31] <ogra> compdude: next Wed. is warty releas day :) then again in april....inbetween probably one or the other pointrelease to fix certain things
[01:31] <Ng> yes
[01:31] <Ng> that is a lot better
[01:31] <Randomize> Compudude:  The projected release date for Warty is October 20th, yes.
[01:31] <Ng> SmokingFire: that won't stay over a reboot though
[01:31] <Ng> SmokingFire: you can edit /etc/hdparm.conf to make it set the dma/32bit stuff every time you boot
[01:32] <Kamion> compdude: we'll open up hoary shortly after warty releases, and it'll be public throughout its development cycle
[01:32] <SmokingFire> Ng: I know, I saved the commands for the next fresh install I may do.
[01:32] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, what kind of hard drive do you have ?
[01:32] <SmokingFire> Ng: Ok will do.
[01:32] <SmokingFire> Ng: maxtor 80gb U133 8mb cache
[01:33] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, that should be submitted to bugzilla.
[01:33] <compdude> ok :) then i'll wait for next release and then install :)
[01:33] <compdude> cya
[01:33] <Ng> yeah, that really should be detected
[01:33] <LinuxJones> Ng, this isn't 1999 :D
[01:34] <Ng> SmokingFire: there are some hdparm tutorials that google can help you find too, if you want to check out some of the other options.
[01:34] <SmokingFire> Ng: everything in my hdparm is off 
[01:34] <stevedeo> Damn. The new ubuntu artwork is awesome :)
[01:35] <socomm> stevedeo: you're about a day late.
[01:35] <Ng> SmokingFire: if you run the hdparm -v again you should see the dma and 32bit ones are on
[01:35] <SmokingFire> Ng, LinuxJones: Well I didn't do an real clean install, I kept my /home partition, could this influence it?
[01:35] <stevedeo> socomm: Yeah... behind the times.
[01:35] <Ng> not hdparm, no
[01:35] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, no
[01:35] <ogra> SteveA: did you read about the concept ? you'll recieve a new one every month :)
[01:35] <SmokingFire> brb
[01:36] <ogra> SteveA: sorry, autocompletion missed
[01:36] <socomm> Ng: I get HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted.
[01:36] <SmokingFire> back
[01:36] <socomm> ogra: what do I have to install to get this artwork?
[01:36] <lrn> I installed ET Enemy ternoti at my pc,and i want to remove how i do that?
[01:36] <jedix__> hey
[01:37] <Ng> socomm: that seems to happen sometimes, I'm not sure why. google might
[01:37] <socomm> Ng: all right.
[01:37] <stevedeo> ogra: No, I haven't read it yet, but I judged that by the names "October Wallpaper". I'll have to read up :)
[01:37] <ogra> socomm: ubuntu-artwork and select the calendar image for background
[01:37] <jedix__> does the amd64 port use the debian pure64 port?
[01:37] <socomm> ogra: thanks.
[01:37] <lrn> I installed ET Enemy ternoti at my pc,and i want to remove how i do that?
[01:38] <Ng> jedix__: it runs a 64bit kernel and system, if that's what that means?
[01:38] <jedix__> Ng, nope
[01:38] <socomm> ogra: would one need to use synaptic for this?
[01:38] <Ng> jedix__: what's pure64 then? :)
[01:38] <jedix__> Ng, does it have lib and lib64
[01:38] <SmokingFire> Ng, LinuxJones: Another thing to complicate is that at this moment and during the installation; I had a faulty hard drive attached as slave (hardware faulty), from which I'm trying to salvage data. When closing ubuntu the screen (console (or whats its called)) prints out error messages (IO based) maybe this why the installer go confused and didn't reconize my correct and working HD.
[01:38] <LinuxJones> lrn, where did you install it to ?
[01:38] <lrn> from a .run script
[01:38] <jedix__> Ng, debian has this pure64 port that does not include the 32bit libs.. thus making things not work
[01:39] <Ng> jedix__: no, /lib and there's a package to provide some /lib32 stuuf
[01:39] <jedix__> it symlinks lib to lib64
[01:39] <jedix__> damn, I was about to install fc2.. now it looks like I wasted four cds.
[01:39] <ogra> socomm: could be helpfull ;) but you can also use apt or aptitude on the commandline if you prefer
[01:39] <Ng> SmokingFire: possibly, that could have forced it to disable dma - that tends to be the first port of call when IDE disks go wonky ;)
[01:40] <lamont-live> moo
[01:40] <Ng> jedix__: fc2 has /lib and /lib64 - its 32bit support is pretty good
[01:40] <socomm> ogra: hmm all right.
[01:40] <jedix__> Ng, yeah, I know.. but I don't wanna run fc
[01:40] <socomm> ogra: thanks.
[01:41] <SmokingFire> Ng: I know that knoppix (livecd) will not even boot in this configuration. Although it will when the faulty drive is the master on the ide bus.
[01:41] <ogra> socomm: youre welcome ;)
[01:41] <jedix__> Ng, can ubuntu 64 run doom3?
[01:41] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, I am not sure how the installer would react to a faulty hard disk like that. I would not hurt to file a submission to bugzilla and let the folks know about it anyway. 
[01:41] <Ng> SmokingFire: can youput the faulty drive on its own seperate bus?
[01:41] <Ng> jedix__: to be honest I'm not sure, I haven't had it installed long enough to install a game ;)
[01:41] <Ng> plus I don't have doom3
[01:41] <LinuxJones> Happy Beer Day !!!!
[01:42] <jedix__> Ng, demo is out :)
[01:42] <Ng> I don't want to pimp fc2 too much, but the doom3 demo worked fine first time ;)
[01:42] <SmokingFire> Ng: this motherboard only has one fast bus (ultra 66 and higher) and another for CDROM.
[01:42] <Ng> ooh, I still have the demo installer
[01:42] <Ng> I'll try it now
[01:42] <jedix__> on ubuntu?
[01:42] <jedix__> sweet.
[01:42] <jedix__> thanks man.
[01:42] <Ng> np
[01:43] <SmokingFire> Ng: lets say I put the faulty dirve on the cdrom ide channel (removing the cdrom) what do I do from there?
[01:44] <Ng> SmokingFire: if anything on the drive gets mounted automatically, change the device name for it in /etc/fstab, then set the hdparm config and that's it. Or did you mean something else?
[01:44] <Ng> jedix__: well, that didn't work so well ;)
[01:45] <SmokingFire> at this moment no foreign disks are mounted in fstab
[01:45] <jedix__> Ng, what happened?
[01:45] <SmokingFire> Ng: Just want to know what you want to see what should happen.
[01:45] <Ng> jedix__: the installer decided I was using glibc-2.0 and failed to find a binary for it
[01:45] <Ng> SmokingFire: well, it won't interfere with your main drive, for one thing
[01:45] <Ng> if there are errors on the bus the driver will probably turn the dma stuff back off
[01:46] <Ng> so your machine will start to suck again ;)
[01:46] <SmokingFire> Ng: its no problem as soon as I have salvaged the data, I will reformat - install with only good drives.
[01:46] <Ng> SmokingFire: ah, fair enough then :)
[01:46] <SmokingFire> Ng: drive is trash anyway, but only made backups of documents not of downloaded stuff.
[01:47] <Ng> SmokingFire: hehe
[01:47] <SmokingFire> Ng: still a lot of downloaded stuff on that drive. Not very important but important in a way its gigs of data I don't want to download again.
[01:48] <Ng> doh, worth a bit of salvaging then
[01:49] <SmokingFire> yup, only tool that I found thats able to do it costs $3500 :(
[01:49] <Ng> ouch
[01:49] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, I would spend the time downloading :P
[01:49] <SmokingFire> yeah, should be a gpl salvage disk program.
[01:49] <Ng> there are some tools for doing really low level IDE stuff on linux
[01:50] <Ng> something about TASKFILE, but I don't really know what ;)
[01:50] <SmokingFire> btw: I tried the demo of that tool and it works.
[01:51] <SmokingFire> anyway thanks for the help
[01:52] <Ng> np
[01:52] <SmokingFire> What files do I need to save when doing a clean install? I will keep my home so thats no problem.
[01:53] <SmokingFire> you know what configuration files, i know fstab and sources.list anyother? Don't need network settings as I'm using a router.
[01:53] <Ng> only config files you've changed really, outside /home
[01:54] <SmokingFire> what about var/apt/cache (or where ever it is at)
[01:54] <SmokingFire> if I would just copy the cache of apt and then on a new install copy it back. Would apt get confused?
[01:54] <Ng> I would think apt would be fine with that
[01:55] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, do you have high speed connection to internet ?
[01:55] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: yes dsl 756k
[01:55] <Ng> (it's /var/cache/apt/archives you want to snag)
[01:55] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, it's faster to just re-download them again as opposed to backing them up 
[01:55] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: but I just want a quick install 
[01:56] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: hd space is no problem btw
[01:56] <mirak_> hi guys
[01:56] <crimsun> hi.
[01:56] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, 756 yikes
[01:56] <mirak_> can anyone help me with a few probs i am having?????
[01:56] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: good or bad?
[01:57] <mirak_> 2 (prob real simple to you guys)
[01:57] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, you donwload about 80 kB/sec ?
[01:57] <mirak_> i need to paly mp3's
[01:57] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: real downloads are at about 220 kilobytes per seconds
[01:57] <mirak_> and i need flash plugin for firefox
[01:58] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, oh that's fine just wipe it and re-download.
[01:58] <Randomize> Mmm, if you're getting 220KB/s out of a 768K DSL line, I think you have more than a 768K DSL line. :)
[01:58] <Randomize> Either that or they are doing something funky to accelerate your connection.
[01:58] <mirak_> either way........its good
[01:58] <crimsun> mirak_: uncomment universe in /etc/apt/sources.list, then apt-get update, then apt-get install gstreamer-mad
[01:58] <crimsun> mirak_: or use synaptic to do that
[01:58] <jdub> gstreamer0.8-mad, rather
[01:58] <mirak_> crimsun: im a noob......go slow
[01:58] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, I have a 5 Mbit connect and can hit 600 kBytes/sec
[01:58] <crimsun> oops, sorry
[01:58] <SmokingFire> Randomize: well my isp changes it all the time. Competition I guess. When I started (3 years ago) it was 70 kb now its 220kb.
[01:59] <crimsun> yes, gstreamer0.8-mad
[01:59] <mirak_> and i dont know where syantik is in ubuntu
[01:59] <Randomize> I like free speed upgrades.  Competition = good. :)
[01:59] <SmokingFire> yup, it was free
[02:00] <mirak_> where is synaptic????
[02:01] <crimsun> mirak_: are you currently in X-Windows?
[02:01] <SmokingFire> but the low budget broadband starts to be attractive, however they implement a download limit on the low budget version. However on the basic version there is only fair use, this means download a lot this month or quarter but next time please download less.
[02:01] <Kamion> ("X Window System" or just "X", BTW)
[02:01] <mirak_> yeah.......if that is gnome
[02:01] <mirak_> yeah
[02:01] <Kamion> there's a rant somewhere in the X documentation about "X-Windows" :)
[02:01] <crimsun> Kamion: thanks
[02:02] <crimsun> mirak_: Computer->System Configuration->Synaptic..
[02:02] <rexiboy> is ubuntu moving to xorg?
[02:02] <mirak_> ahh.thnx guys
[02:02] <Kamion> rexiboy: post-warty, yes
[02:02] <Kamion> rexiboy: it turned out not to be ready enough for warty
[02:02] <SmokingFire> Ng, LinuxJones: you still want me to enter a entry in bugzilla for my faulty drive?
[02:03] <mirak_> just so you guys know.im about 30 mins into this ubuntu install, my first distro was yoper
[02:03] <ogra> Kamion: how far post warty ? 
[02:03] <rexiboy> what about hardware detection?
[02:03] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, It's a good Idea yeah
[02:03] <Kamion> ogra: hoary, dunno beyond that
[02:03] <Kamion> rexiboy: what about it? :)
[02:03] <Ng> mention that you had a faulty drive on the chain
[02:03] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, make mention of the faulty drive and what IDE channel it was connected to ?
[02:04] <ogra> Kamion: i mean, when can i get the first unstable debs ?
[02:04] <rexiboy> why is the live cd works great on my athlon64 and nvidia6800 but the 64 install have problems with my card?
[02:04] <spaaz9> Hi all.  I'm having a problem with totem.  I have sound, but no video.  I have an eVGA nVidia Riva TNT2 32MB PCI card.  Anyone have any ideas?
[02:04] <SmokingFire> Ng, LinuxJones: ok. Of head I think its IDE 1 (or 0 the first one anyway).
[02:04] <rexiboy> isn't detection the same?
[02:05] <Kamion> ogra: I don't know
[02:05] <mirak_> gstramer0.8-mad isnt in synaptek
[02:05] <SmokingFire> rexiboy: what problems do you have
[02:05] <rexiboy> after install can't startx
[02:05] <Kamion> rexiboy: no, rather different, the live CD has a different heritage from the installer
[02:05] <SmokingFire> mirak_: you need to enable the universe option in synaptic
[02:05] <mirak_> how to do that????
[02:05] <Kamion> rexiboy: please file a bug with details if the install CD isn't doing what you want
[02:05] <ogra> mirak_: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/SynapticHowto
[02:05] <mirak_> <[02:06] <SmokingFire> mirak_: in synaptic click on setting-->repositories and enable the fifth and sixed entry.
[02:06] <rexiboy> Kamion, I did but to no availe... it does not detect the card, no device found
[02:06] <mirak_> thnx.......i can follow the how to
[02:06] <spaaz9> rexiboy what kind of card?
[02:06] <rexiboy> spaaz9, nvidia 6800
[02:07] <spaaz9> do you get a bash prompt?
[02:07] <rexiboy> yes i do
[02:07] <mirak_> should i leave the 4th entry unchecked?????
[02:07] <SmokingFire> mirak_: let me see
[02:07] <mirak_> smokingfire?
[02:07] <mirak_> ok
[02:07] <mirak_> thnx ever so much
[02:07] <spaaz9> what does your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file say for your video card?
[02:08] <spaaz9> Is it using the nv or nvidia driver?
[02:08] <SmokingFire> ok seems my panel crashed or something
[02:08] <mirak_> lol
[02:08] <mirak_> im sorry
[02:08] <SmokingFire> mirak_: whats its there 
[02:08] <SmokingFire> wait its there
[02:08] <rexiboy> tried to reconfigure x and writing the changes to the default file but when i open .conf-4 the changes are not reflected
[02:08] <mirak_> ??????
[02:09] <rexiboy> it's using nv
[02:09] <mirak_> what is the thing im installing do????
[02:09] <SmokingFire> mirak_: sorry its nr 4 and 5 not 5 and 6
[02:09] <socomm> rexiboy: do you have an nvidia entry under /dev?
[02:09] <SmokingFire> so enable 4th and 5th option in the config
[02:09] <mirak_> 6 was already checked
[02:09] <mirak_> so enable them all???
[02:09] <rexiboy> socomm, i need to check i'm in yoper atm
[02:09] <SmokingFire> mirak_: thats good as it for security updates
[02:10] <rexiboy> sec
[02:10] <SmokingFire> mirak_: there is no problem with enabling them all.
[02:10] <mirak_> ok...i just did
[02:10] <socomm> rexiboy: you can edit your XF86config-4, and edit nv to nvidia then startx.
[02:10] <spaaz9> rexiboy do this: sudo apt-get install nvidia-glx  then sudo nvidia-glx config enable then if it doesn't do it automatically, change your driver to read nvidia
[02:10] <mirak_> im just playing.so if i screw anything up, ill just start over
[02:10] <mirak_> not concerned about breaking stuff
[02:10] <SmokingFire> now click on ok and and click on reload (this will take time).
[02:10] <mirak_> i did already
[02:11] <mirak_> im a noob.but not that bad
[02:11] <SmokingFire> mirak_: also reload?
[02:11] <mirak_> yup
[02:11] <SmokingFire> ok :)
[02:11] <mirak_> thnx
[02:11] <mirak_> but what does the thing i installing do???
[02:11] <mirak_> mp3 or flash?
[02:11] <crimsun> mp3
[02:11] <SmokingFire> no, thanks as I learned from other people in this channel. 
[02:12] <rexiboy> spaaz9, doing apt-get it can't find the package
[02:12] <mirak_> thnx thanks channel
[02:12] <mirak_> hehe
[02:12] <spaaz9> rexiboy it can't find nvidia-glx ?
[02:12] <rexiboy> no:(
[02:12] <SmokingFire> mirak_: when its done look for mad and then install gstreamer08-mad
[02:13] <mirak_> im working on it
[02:13] <crimsun> (gstreamer0.8-mad)
[02:13] <mirak_> "g" is a long way down the list
[02:13] <rexiboy> I even uncommented the security and ...
[02:13] <Randomize> There is a search function, Mirak.
[02:13] <SmokingFire> mirak_: if it doesn;t work then log off and on.
[02:13] <Randomize> Sorry.
[02:13] <Randomize> Nevermind.
[02:13] <Randomize> Thought we were dealing with Synaptic.
[02:13] <SmokingFire> Randomize: we are
[02:14] <Randomize> I'm blending my conversations, thought you had him in apt-get now. :)
[02:14] <mirak_> yeah...we are
[02:14] <Randomize> Yes, then the search button is your friend. :)
[02:14] <mirak_> well.i can handle both
[02:14] <spaaz9> rexiboy hmmmm....
[02:14] <SmokingFire> mirak_: after installing log off an on, if it doesn't work.
[02:14] <mirak_> just couldnt remember exact name of the file
[02:14] <spaaz9> try just changing nv to nvidia and see what happens
[02:14] <rexiboy> no nvidia under /dev
[02:14] <Ng> rexiboy: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BinaryDriverHowto?action=highlight&value=nvidia
[02:14] <rexiboy> where can i post my conf-4?
[02:15] <rublind> Can someone help me with a problem I'm having?
[02:15] <mirak_> is ubuntu a good distro for me to be laerning on????????
[02:15] <spaaz9> e-mail it to stevead@lycoris.com
[02:15] <crimsun> mirak_: sure.
[02:15] <SmokingFire> mirak_: just do a search for mad and gstreamer-8-mad should be the third entry.
[02:15] <Ng> rublind: ask and find out :)
[02:15] <mirak_> its installing already
[02:15] <rublind> Well, I downloaded an ubuntu iso last night (from the UK mirror, I think)
[02:15] <mirak_> hmm....its done
[02:15] <rublind> And today when I tried to install it, I get errors
[02:16] <mirak_> try and reburn the iso at a slower speed??
[02:16] <SmokingFire> mirak_: remember you must have the 08 version
[02:16] <Ng> what kind of errors?
[02:16] <rublind> That files are missing, or not able to be accessed, and when I did a disk check (I think it checks the md5sums), it failed
[02:16] <mirak_> i did get the 08 version
[02:16] <SmokingFire> ok
[02:16] <Ng> rublind: try burning it again then, if it still fails, download it again
[02:16] <rublind> I did burn it again.
[02:16] <rexiboy> Ng, thanks did that and will give it another go
[02:16] <Ng> rexiboy: np
[02:16] <mirak_> smokingfire: why is your name yellow sometimes???
[02:17] <rublind> Ng, do you know when they are going to be shipping the cd's?
[02:17] <mirak_> after the final release
[02:17] <Ng> rublind: ah. the first time I downloaded the image, it died after about 300mb instead of 500, check you have the right size
[02:17] <Ng> rublind: nope
[02:17] <rublind> What's the right size?
[02:17] <mirak_> rublind: cd are shipped after the final release, i think the 18th
[02:17] <spaaz9> exit
[02:17] <SmokingFire> mirak_: depends on your settings of IRC but when I type your irc name your irc clients alerts you with sounds or colors that someone is talking about you.
[02:17] <rublind> Excellent
[02:18] <mirak_> ah...ok
[02:18] <rublind> Is there a maximum of how many free cd's you can get?
[02:18] <Ng> rublind: somewhere round 500mb, I'm not running the i386 version, so I don't have the exact size to hand
[02:18] <mirak_> yeah...it was yellwo that post too
[02:18] <mirak_> im using x-xhat at default
[02:18] <SmokingFire> mirak_: In my case if anyone mentions my name I get a sound thats the same from star trek (red alert).
[02:18] <mirak_> sweet.i want it
[02:18] <Ng> that must be annoying ;)
[02:18] <mirak_> smokingfire
[02:18] <mirak_> smokingfire
[02:18] <mirak_> smokingfire
[02:18] <sabdfl> mirak_: rublind: release is expected on the 20th
[02:19] <rublind> 52.5 MB seems a bit small >_<
[02:19] <sabdfl> cd shipping will only start a week or two later
[02:19] <SmokingFire> Ng: well not for me as I'm multitasking so its nice to know
[02:19] <Ng> rublind: erk, yes ;)
[02:19] <mirak_> i ordered 20 if it makes you feel better
[02:19] <SmokingFire> mirak_: I'm using gaim for irc. 
[02:19] <mirak_> ahh......
[02:19] <mirak_> ill try that leter
[02:19] <rublind> I ordered more than 20 cd's, I ordered 200 something. ^_^
[02:19] <mirak_> holy sh*t
[02:19] <rublind> I'm going to be handing them out like crazy.
[02:19] <mirak_> can i say that here???
[02:19] <rublind> Try it.
[02:20] <mirak_> holy shit
[02:20] <SmokingFire> don't know, I see no mods
[02:20] <rublind> What, too many?
[02:20] <mirak_> im just asking if it is allowed, are mods gonna get angry?
[02:20] <crimsun> we generally avoid cursing without reason :)
[02:20] <mirak_> ok......i will to then
[02:20] <Kamion> mirak_: try to be civil and respectful to people in general
[02:20] <SmokingFire> this channel could use a bot for FAQ's
[02:20] <mirak_> thats why i asked
[02:20] <Kamion> try to have ubuntu, in other words :-)
[02:20] <mirak_> lol
[02:20] <mirak_> and starred it first
[02:20] <rublind> What is ubuntu ?
[02:21] <mirak_> humanity toward others
[02:21] <rublind> What does it mean.
[02:21] <rublind> In what language?
[02:21] <jdub> rublind: 'be excellent to each other'
[02:21] <SmokingFire> like ubuntu: faq mp3 and it prints the faq for getting mp3 to play
[02:21] <Ng> jdub: haha
[02:21] <Kamion> rublind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu
[02:21] <Ng> hippy linux ;)
[02:21] <mirak_> really??
[02:21] <rublind> You have no idea how lazy I am. :P
[02:21] <mirak_> im gonna restart to see if mp3 works.....brb
[02:22] <rublind> Ah, crap, one hour.
[02:22] <SmokingFire> rublind: can't be worse then me, my nick name in real life is horizontal (always sleeping)
[02:22] <rublind> Haha.
[02:22] <rublind> No, I'm not that bad. :P
[02:22] <SmokingFire> I'm like a cat, I kust save energy
[02:22] <SmokingFire> kust = just
[02:23] <rublind> Ubuntu runs like all other linux distro's right? So if I learn to use it, I can work on other ones.... right? (I mean terminal wise)
[02:23] <SmokingFire> rublind: wouldn't know why not
[02:23] <rublind> I'm paranoid.
[02:23] <Kamion> rublind: we're very Debian-style so things you learn on Ubuntu will transfer well to Debian; many things will transfer to non-Debian distributions too
[02:23] <SmokingFire> Anything thats not on ubuntu can be installed
[02:23] <rublind> I've switched around in distros.
[02:24] <rublind> I had Knoppix, but I wanted the real thing, so then I tried SUSE, and didn't like it, and I just deleted my Fedora while trying to install ubuntu
[02:24] <JanneM> for all the talk about linux being splintered, the differences between distros is pretty shallow
[02:24] <rublind> Yeah.
[02:24] <rublind> I just want to be sure that I can move around in distro's.
[02:25] <rublind> I'd use gentoo if it wasn't so damned hard to install (just to see it), but again, lazy.
[02:25] <LinuxJones> rublind, why would you want to move from Ubuntu ?
[02:25] <JanneM> rublind: you can
[02:25] <JanneM> rublind: things that change are some tools, setup stuff and so, but all concepts and so are the same
[02:26] <SmokingFire> rublind: I also tried many linux distro's and ubuntu is the only one I kept and booted into often, now windows is secondary, however the real reason is that I didn't like KDE or the bloated redhat, mandrake installs and synaptic is very sexy.
[02:26] <rublind> LinuxJones, no clue, haven't tried it yet.
[02:26] <SmokingFire> I wanted a cross between BeOS and Linux and ubuntu does it for me.
[02:26] <rublind> Ubuntu uses gnome right?
[02:26] <rublind> I don't like KDE.
[02:27] <LinuxJones> rublind, what are you waiting for there are about 50 people here who will help you get it installed :)
[02:27] <SmokingFire> KDE is nice but on first view, to me its like las vegas neon and glitter.
[02:27] <rublind> LinuxJones, get what installed?
[02:27] <rublind> Ubuntu?
[02:27] <LinuxJones> ya
[02:27] <rublind> I'm downloading.
[02:28] <SmokingFire> I get blinded by all the options (neon and glitter) that I don't care for.
[02:28] <LinuxJones> oh good man
[02:28] <rublind> But I have to hold off, my dad works from home and needs the internet. :(
[02:28] <rublind> That's why I want the CD's.
[02:28] <rublind> ... I think I should order more, 'cause I'm good at spreading things. ^_^
[02:28] <nate> anyone know where to find documentation on language packs?
[02:29] <SmokingFire> My philosophy is file manager manages files, ftp client does ftp stuff, web browser does http based stuff.
[02:29] <rublind> Eh...?
[02:29] <baHam> SmokingFire, mine too
[02:29] <rublind> Isn't that similar to the Unix motto?
[02:29] <rublind> (not motto, but what they wanted to do)
[02:29] <SmokingFire> rublind: as far as I know yes. And I want to keep it that way.
[02:30] <rublind> ^_^
[02:30] <rublind> I read about it last night (I'm borrowing a linux book from a friend, and want to switch distro's to the one I think will be permanent before I start practicing_
[02:30] <jvic> hey folks
[02:30] <Ng> you can't argue with gnome-vfs giving nautilus support to browse sftp/ftp/smb though
[02:31] <Ng> that's *hugely* useful
[02:31] <jdub> those are filesystems
[02:31] <jvic> i tried the ubuntu livecd and i've got one serious problem:
[02:32] <Ng> jdub: it goes against "file manager manages files, ftp client does ftp stuff" though ;)
[02:32] <jvic> after using Ubuntu for a few minutes, it simply stops launching applications. I click them, it doen't open. *No* applications. Not even a terminal. Nothing. And this happened on the 2 machines i tested it. Why's that?
[02:32] <SmokingFire> Ng: thats gnome-vfs does it is ok as that is developer side of gnome. But I don't need it in nautilus, my isp ftp server doesn't even work in nautilus.
[02:32] <sepheebear> gnome-vfs sftp support is awesome, I can access my OS X box without having to use the nightmare better known as netatalk
[02:32] <jdub> jvic: it's a feature. not. ;)
[02:33] <jdub> jvic: no idea - is there any useful output on other consoles?
[02:33] <Ng> SmokingFire: I think virtual filesystems like that are pretty vital to a useful desktop these days. pity it doesn't work for you, I use the sftp bit more than I do local files ;)
[02:34] <sabdfl> jvic: which version of the livecd are you using?
[02:34] <jvic> jdub: no output... 
[02:34] <rublind> Oh, here's a question, where is a good place to install stuff if I want all users to be able to use it?
[02:34] <Ng> rublind: what kind of stuff?
[02:34] <jdub> rublind: before installing anything manually, check that it's available in ubuntu (including universe)
[02:34] <jvic> sabdfl: oh dear i don't know... it was the first one i've seen, published on Osnews
[02:34] <jdub> rublind: if it's definitely not there, i'd recommend using gnu stow (which works with /usr/local)
[02:35] <rublind> ... okay so /usr/local with a new folder for each program? Or all in the main folder?
[02:35] <sabdfl> jvic: can you point us at the url you downloaded it from?
[02:35] <SmokingFire> Ng: last day to update my webpage I needed to use the console ftp ftp.myisp.com as nautilus ftp just would not log me into my personal directory. On my isp we all use the same ftp address but depending on your login info it forwards to your own folder/site
[02:35] <jdub> rublind: with gnu stow, you install to /usr/local/stow/<package> and it manages symlinks back to /usr/local for you
[02:35] <jvic> jdub: i thought this was a common bug, don't know... because it happenned on 2 machines... by the way, on 1 one of them Ubuntu was actually *installed*, not running the live cd. And still the same prob.
[02:35] <jdub> rublind: what do you need to install manually?
[02:35] <rublind> I don't know what gnu stow is.
[02:36] <Ng> SmokingFire: doh. Submit a bug report on gnome.org's bugzilla :)
[02:36] <jdub> rublind: apt-cache show stow
[02:36] <rublind> jdub: I'm not on ubuntu yet, I'm just curious
[02:36] <jdub> rublind: that's how i'd recommend handling it on any distro. but you shouldn't need to build stuff on ubuntu.
[02:37] <jvic> sabdfl: actually i wasn't the one who downloaded it, but the link was from here: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2004-October/000001.html
[02:37] <rublind> jdub: I would if there are no RPMS for it...
[02:37] <jvic> sabdfl: i mean the link to the iso... not the torrent] 
[02:38] <sabdfl> jvic: ok, there are newer images but none we feel is release candidate yet
[02:38] <SmokingFire> Ng: Just tried tried  the ftp login again from nautilus and still the same problem.  Weird thing is that the ftp command from the console works.
[02:38] <jdub> rublind: ubuntu is based on debian (so uses deb, not rpm), and includes most of what's packaged in debian as unsupported packages. ie., most of the free software world. ;)
[02:38] <Ng> SmokingFire: maybe nautilus isn't understanding something properly
[02:39] <sabdfl> we are likely to publish another live cd this week that will have a lot of updates from the first one
[02:39] <sabdfl> perhaps work with the guys on this channel, if there's an obvious solution they will find it
[02:39] <jvic> sabdfl: does ubuntu has xchat?
[02:39] <sabdfl> if not, try the updated one
[02:39] <sabdfl> jvic: yes
[02:39] <rublind> Uh, okay.
[02:39] <rublind> I'll just come here if I need help. ^_^
[02:40] <jvic> sabdfl: so i'll boot it and try to connect here from ubuntu... maybe i'll be able to get more info from there...
[02:40] <SmokingFire> When will open office 2 be released? I want the updated GUI and icons.
[02:40] <sabdfl> jvic: go for it
[02:40] <sabdfl> i'm signing out
[02:40] <sabdfl> night all
[02:40] <jdub> SmokingFire: should be in time for hoary
[02:40] <jdub> later sabdfl 
[02:40] <Kamion> SmokingFire: believe it's end of this year, but that's a vague memory
[02:41] <SmokingFire> do you know of any other improvements like grammar check?
[02:42] <SmokingFire> If it would be highly component bases like ms office it would be even better.
[02:43] <SmokingFire> using corbra/bonobo/orbit or whatever.
[02:43] <Dekkard> first flaw found.. printing is borked
[02:44] <Dekkard> and cups interface appears disabled??????
[02:44] <jdub> Dekkard: Computer > System Configuration > Printing
[02:44] <Dekkard> been there done that
[02:44] <Dekkard> but thanks
[02:45] <Dekkard> it recognizes the printer.. right driver appears loaded. (hpijs)
[02:47] <mirak_> smokingfire: mp3's work now
[02:47] <mirak_> thank you ever so much
[02:47] <SmokingFire> mirak_: thank the channel
[02:47] <LinuxJones> Dekkard, you've tried re-started cups ?
[02:48] <Dekkard> hmm
[02:48] <mirak_> Channel: thank you
[02:48] <Dekkard> now that ya mention it...
[02:48] <Dekkard> :0
[02:48] <LinuxJones> :)
[02:48] <SmokingFire> mirak_: next time you will help some one with the same problem. 
[02:48] <mirak_> smokingfire: can you help me with flash plugin????
[02:48] <mirak_> that i will
[02:48] <SmokingFire> knowledge shared here falls under the gpl.
[02:49] <SmokingFire> mirak_: well in firefox pr1 its reall easy but its seems that ubuntu comes with a earlier version nowadays
[02:49] <mirak_> yeah, i used to the PRL
[02:49] <SmokingFire> anyway when using other distros installing flash was a breeze
[02:49] <mirak_> i am used to the PRL
[02:49] <mirak_> so what do i have to do???
[02:50] <SmokingFire> let me get the info
[02:50] <mirak_> hopefully it will come as a rpm, i always have trouble with tar.gz
[02:51] <SmokingFire> mirak_: I'm sorry its not but its easy anyway as its binary file (I think)
[02:51] <mirak_> tar.gz???
[02:51] <SmokingFire> mirak_: go here and just follow the instructions: http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash
[02:51] <mirak_> ok...ill try.stick around ill prob need help
[02:52] <SmokingFire> mirak_: its file that you need to unpack and run the script that will copy all files to the right place.
[02:52] <LinuxJones> Dekkard, did re-starting cups help ?
[02:52] <Dekkard> uh.......
[02:52] <mirak_> i can handle this one
[02:52] <Dekkard> its fighting back
[02:52] <mirak_> is it f2 to open a console in the directory i am in??
[02:52] <rexiboy> hey guys thanks for the help! I was missing a couple of lines in the sourcs list... nvidia is working nice!
[02:52] <LinuxJones> heh
[02:52] <SmokingFire> mirak_: just download the file in your home and then right click on it and say unpackage or whatever.
[02:53] <mirak_> sweet glad to hear that rexiboy
[02:53] <Ng> rexiboy: cool :)
[02:53] <rexiboy> the wierd thing is though running dpkg-reconfigure does not actually writes to .conf-4...
[02:53] <rexiboy> had to go in and edit manually
[02:54] <mirak_> how to open a console in that directory, smokingfire??
[02:54] <rexiboy> Ng, that link did it all :)
[02:54] <SmokingFire> mirak_: I think you can't from nautilus
[02:54] <mirak_> what is nautilus???
[02:54] <SmokingFire> you will need to open and navigate to there.
[02:55] <Ng> rexiboy: :)
[02:55] <mirak_> i cant do that
[02:55] <rexiboy> glxgeras about 13500
[02:55] <mirak_> never tried
[02:55] <mirak_> cd .....something
[02:55] <LinuxJones> rexiboy, there is some rules to follow @ the top of the XFree86Config-4 file, you must have edited the file manually @ some point.
[02:55] <SmokingFire> mirak_: before you do, just rename the folder to something easy like flash
[02:55] <mirak_> done
[02:55] <mirak_> named it flash
[02:55] <LinuxJones> rexiboy, previously that is
[02:55] <rexiboy> LinuxJones, yes I have many times :)
[02:55] <SmokingFire> ok now open a console
[02:55] <LinuxJones> :)
[02:56] <dml> mirak_, for flash try apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree from universe
[02:56] <rexiboy> very happy got a snappy ubuntu64!
[02:56] <mirak_> root or normal????
[02:56] <SmokingFire> normal
[02:56] <mirak_> ill just finish this install, dml, gotta learn it sometime
[02:56] <mirak_> terminal open
[02:57] <rexiboy> see you all guys, got to go to the airport... thanks again for your help!
[02:57] <mirak_> later rexiboy
[02:57] <LinuxJones> bye
[02:57] <SmokingFire> mirak_: now type ls (which means list the files in the directory)
[02:57] <mirak_> flash is there
[02:57] <mirak_> err. that folder is there
[02:57] <mirak_> cd /flash   ????
[02:57] <dml> mirak_, the package flashplugin-nonfree downloads flash and installs it for all users on your system
[02:57] <SmokingFire> ok now type cd (which means change directory) flash. cd flash
[02:58] <mirak_> ok...........i think im starting to get this
[02:58] <mirak_> learned more here today, than i have in my last month in yoper
[02:58] <SmokingFire> are you in the directory flash?
[02:59] <mirak_> yes i am
[02:59] <SmokingFire> mirak_: remember what dml typed for the next time ( i didn't know)
[02:59] <mirak_> should i rename the installer file????
[02:59] <SmokingFire> mirak_: now type ./flashplayer-installer
[03:00] <mirak_> what does "./" represent???
[03:00] <SmokingFire> just copy sudo ./flashplayer-installer from this screen and paste in the console sudo ./flashplayer-installer
[03:00] <SmokingFire> forgot the sudo part
[03:00] <SmokingFire> ./ means current directory i think
[03:01] <SmokingFire> so copy can paste sudo ./flashplayer-installer into your console and enter the password
[03:01] <mirak_> i wants the installation path of firefox
[03:01] <mirak_> it wants*
[03:01] <mirak_> i dont fully understand the file system yet
[03:01] <mirak_> plz help
[03:01] <SmokingFire> I don't know that off head
[03:02] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, ./ is the same as sh it runs the <file> as a script 
[03:02] <mirak_> thnx linuxjones
[03:02] <LinuxJones> ;)
[03:02] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: thanks
[03:02] <SmokingFire> Anyone know the path of firefox?
[03:02] <mirak_> was just gonna ask that, just didnt know how
[03:03] <mirak_> maybe "/user/lib/firefox"   ???
[03:03] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox
[03:03] <SmokingFire> path is in what directory its installed but not just its directory but the whole way to get there from the console
[03:03] <asdf_46> whereis firefox
[03:03] <mirak_> it say that it is not a directory
[03:04] <mirak_> so /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox isnt it
[03:04] <mirak_> linuxjones: /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox didnt work
[03:04] <Ng> try /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/
[03:04] <mirak_> that was it
[03:04] <mirak_> ng: thnx
[03:05] <mirak_> you too linuxjones
[03:05] <mirak_> and smokingfire
[03:05] <LinuxJones> ;)
[03:05] <SmokingFire> mirak_: now try it
[03:05] <mirak_> oh.it works
[03:05] <SmokingFire> ok
[03:05] <mirak_> and i am exited
[03:06] <SmokingFire> so you see installing tar.gz is not that hard
[03:06] <mirak_> well, i always had a hard time with ./configure....make.....makeinstall
[03:06] <mirak_> it always bombed out on me
[03:06] <mirak_> but that was YOPER, not ubuntu
[03:06] <rublind> I know this is ubuntu chat, but on windows, how do you install java for firefox?
[03:07] <mirak_> umm.....yes........but it is really easy with the preview release
[03:07] <wm_eddie> firefox 1.0pr should installing automatically or something.
[03:07] <mirak_> 2 click install
[03:07] <SmokingFire> mirak_: normally it works for me but sometimes it does give errors
[03:07] <mirak_> smokingfire: in ubuntu???
[03:07] <crimsun> rublind: you run the jre or jdk installer.
[03:08] <SmokingFire> rublind: just install java 5 (any version would do) and enable java in firefox should do it. It does for me.
[03:08] <mirak_> i used to never use irc chat....but now i see that it is the greatest thing ever
[03:08] <SmokingFire> mirak_: can't say, newby
[03:08] <mirak_> smokingfire: same boat as me , huh?
[03:08] <SmokingFire> mirak_: I think so
[03:08] <mirak_> smokingfire: its ok, we eill earn together
[03:09] <mirak_> wow.i can type
[03:09] <SmokingFire> mirak_: do you use gaim for hotmail or yahoo or other?
[03:09] <mirak_> its ok ...we will learn together
[03:09] <mirak_> smokingfire: i only use aim chat
[03:09] <SmokingFire> well aim is also gaim right?
[03:09] <mirak_> smokingfire: i realy dont chat much, just one in a while
[03:09] <mirak_> smokingfire: yes it is
[03:09] <Ng> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats - you could try the java debs from that
[03:10] <Ng> but it's not Sun's official jvm
[03:10] <SmokingFire> mirak_: A trick I learned last time to put often used application on you quick launch tray
[03:10] <Ng> installing the jre from java.sun.com should be ok. you might have to make a symlink to the plugin, but that's about it
[03:10] <mirak_> smokingfire: already done
[03:10] <mirak_> smokingfire: lol
[03:10] <SmokingFire> mirak_: just that you can use gaim for irc and get sound alerts when someone mentions your name.
[03:11] <mirak_> smokingfire: i like x-chat..thnx though
[03:11] <SmokingFire> ok
[03:12] <mirak_> smokingfire: also, i really like gnome, didnt like kde so much
[03:12] <SmokingFire> mirak_: me neither, its to much for me.
[03:13] <SmokingFire> I like the keep it simple and stupid motto of gnome.
[03:13] <SmokingFire> Unless 
[03:13] <mirak_> ?????
[03:13] <SmokingFire> Unless I hit the advaned button
[03:13] <Ng> what made you guys try linux, out of interest?
[03:13] <jdub> s/stupid/sensible/
[03:13] <mirak_> that last thng didnt make sence to me
[03:13] <mirak_> ng: i wanted to learn it...to better myself
[03:14] <wm_eddie> Ng: I can't remember when I learned about linux.  But when I was... 14, I bought Corel Linux.
[03:14] <Ng> mirak_: pretty good reason :)
[03:14] <SmokingFire> unless you hit the advanced options button or something like in firefox, I think its about:config or something.
[03:14] <mirak_> ng: thnx
[03:14] <Ng> wm_eddie: ah, that was an interesting distro ;)
[03:14] <SmokingFire> jdub: well its programmer jargon that I picked up.
[03:15] <wm_eddie> Ng: I can't remember where I even learned about linux.
[03:15] <jdub> SmokingFire: no one says "simple and stupid"
[03:15] <wm_eddie> But I've always kindof hated Windows.
[03:15] <SmokingFire> jdub: If you know joelonsoftware you know what I'm talking about.
[03:15] <jdub> SmokingFire: the acronym is KISS, for "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
[03:15] <Ng> wm_eddie: I find I can't really remember either. it was quite a few years ago though ;)
[03:15] <jdub> SmokingFire: KISS is not known only to software developers, dude
[03:15] <jdub> SmokingFire: the difference between the comma and the and is important.
[03:15] <wm_eddie> Ng: I wish I was using Linux in 1994... It was such an awesome time back then.
[03:15] <SmokingFire> jdub: I know ergonomics
[03:16] <wm_eddie> Since Linux was better than anything else.
[03:16] <Ng> wm_eddie: in 1994?!
[03:16] <wm_eddie> yup
[03:16] <wm_eddie> It was light-years ahead of Windows 3.1 in every way!
[03:16] <wm_eddie> Then Microsoft released Windows 95.
[03:16] <Ng> I started out in about 96/97 and it wasn't very good then ;)
[03:17] <SmokingFire> jdub: the acronym is KISS, for "Keep It Simple, Stupid" 
[03:17] <SmokingFire> Sorry meant it like that. But what's the difference?
[03:17] <jdub> SmokingFire: it's not "simple and stupid", that implies something entirely different
[03:17] <SmokingFire> jdub: asking language was is not my strongest point
[03:18] <SmokingFire> to me the comma sounds like an and
[03:18] <wm_eddie> keep it simple, stupid is calling someone stupid.  keep it simple and stupid means keep it simple and keep it stupid...
[03:19] <wm_eddie> and you don't want to keep it stupid.
[03:19] <joebeastie> i just did an apt-get upgrade. i am not liking the new artwork :-/
[03:19] <wm_eddie> joebeastie: how can you not!?
[03:20] <SmokingFire> joebeastie: You don't? 
[03:20] <mirak_> i noticed that a rant about "keep it simple, stupid" became not so simple
[03:20] <joebeastie> this might have been talked about before and i am just beating a dead horse
[03:20] <joebeastie> but i have been gone for a couple of days :P
[03:20] <SmokingFire> joebeastie: it is
[03:20] <joebeastie> i will just search the mailing lists :)
[03:20] <tris_> joebeastie & wmEddie: i thought the new art work was a bit camp too.
[03:21] <crimsun> you can just change the artwork
[03:21] <SmokingFire> ubuntu developers stand point as far as i get is: "Live with it" but you can easily change it.
[03:21] <crimsun> (the theme, rather)
[03:21] <mirak_> is the "NEW" artwork the naked ppl????
[03:21] <wm_eddie> I actually really like it.
[03:21] <mirak_> sorry just installe dtoday
[03:21] <crimsun> i like it, too
[03:22] <SmokingFire> I don't care and I don't call them naked people. As showing skin is as bad as showing pictures of a beach of people in swimming suits.
[03:23] <SmokingFire> Really I say not genitals nor breasts.
[03:23] <SmokingFire> say - saw
[03:23] <crimsun> frankly if I'm staring at the greeter, I'm not being productive; so I try to spend as little time as possible not logged in
[03:23] <mirak_> well they are naked, but it doesnt bother me at all....ill prob keep it for a while....i was just asking if that is the  "new" artwork
[03:23] <joebeastie> doh. i apologize for making everyone beat the dead horse again
[03:23] <mirak_> not dead to me........i am new
[03:23] <mirak_> still a pony
[03:23] <asdf_46> I just wish the old theme didn;t dissapear.
[03:24] <joebeastie> mirak+: same here. probably best to read the archive mailing lists though
[03:24] <asdf_46> Don't like the brown mich
[03:24] <asdf_46> much
[03:24] <SmokingFire> I live in the netherlands naked people are almost as common on tv as dressed people. You just develop a (whats it called, dead skin)
[03:25] <SmokingFire> you know like the skin on you feet and hands
[03:25] <Ng> SmokingFire: we (uk) would say, a thick skin :)
[03:25] <mirak_> true...nudity is only sought after because it is not common....almost forbidden
[03:25] <crimsun> callousness?
[03:25] <wm_eddie> mirak_: It's forbidden in some western cultures.  But in the east it's a little bit more liberal.
[03:26] <paranoid_android> i have a question
[03:26] <SmokingFire> Only western culture I know of is USA
[03:26] <crimsun> ask away, paranoid_android.
[03:26] <mirak_> i am aware.........just stating points from my view
[03:26] <mirak_> USA
[03:26] <SmokingFire> However BBC from what I hear can also be quite conversative
[03:27] <Ng> nah, the BBC don't mind nudity
[03:27] <paranoid_android> Where can i find my windows98se partition in Ubuntu 9.6
[03:27] <Ng> they don't show a great deal of it, but their programmes don't tend to be things that naturally include nudity ;)
[03:27] <SmokingFire> But the ubuntu was not nudity. Nudity is showing genitals to me.
[03:27] <mirak_> what is BBC??????
[03:27] <Ng> mirak_: British Broadcasting Corporation!
[03:27] <SmokingFire> genitals is not nudity 
[03:27] <crimsun> mirak_: probably meaning (the UK)
[03:27] <Ng> finest television network in the world
[03:28] <Ng> ;)
[03:28] <mirak_> in usa nips are nudity.......almost a whole breast can be exposed....just no nipple
[03:28] <ivar> *cough* cbc's pretty nice too
[03:28] <SmokingFire> mirak_: like PBS in the US however bigger and better.
[03:28] <azeem> hey haggai 
[03:28] <jedix> show case goes border line hardcore.
[03:28] <LinuxJones> The Canadian Television Network plays The Sopranos @ 10:00pm uncut !!!
[03:28] <mirak_> yeah pbs suck
[03:28] <Ng> don't judge the BBC just on BBC America though, or BBC World :/
[03:28] <mirak_> i havent watched that channel in like years
[03:28] <Ng> they are both pretty weak ;)
[03:29] <mirak_> i dont watch bbc either
[03:29] <SmokingFire> meaning showing genitals is different then showing breasts and showing breasts is different then showing a lot of skin in a non sexual way. 
[03:29] <mirak_> daytime tv is really restricted.......nite time is a bit more lax
[03:29] <mirak_> i thin after 9:00 they can show a bit more
[03:30] <maswan> Ng: well, BBC World has its good spots, I mean, for a 24h news channel.
[03:30] <SmokingFire> Last time I saw a commercial for a womens soap here. You know what they showed?
[03:30] <crimsun> soap?
[03:30] <mirak_> where is "here" to you smokingfire???
[03:30] <mirak_> soap opera
[03:30] <Ng> maswan: after about half an hour I have to switch it off ;)
[03:31] <SmokingFire> The showed a woman jumping from a plane and she pulls her suit and just shows her breast. Thats the whole commericial.
[03:31] <maswan> Ng: I find it a fairly good background noise :)
[03:31] <Ng> maswan: hehe
[03:31] <Ng> maswan: I hate the weather jingle so much ;)
[03:31] <SmokingFire> mirak_: netherlands
[03:31] <mirak_> and a penis is never shown on american tv.....unless it is a documentary......never sexual
[03:31] <mirak_> smokingfire:   ok
[03:31] <crimsun> paranoid_android: does /etc/fstab tell you anything?
[03:31] <Ng> mirak_: pretty silly when you think there's about 3 billion of them out there ;)
[03:31] <mirak_> yeah
[03:32] <maswan> nudity used to be perfectly fine here (sweden), and in theory still is in a non-sexual context
[03:32] <SmokingFire> mirak_: I believe there is a difference between informative nudity and sexual .
[03:32] <paranoid_android> wait...
[03:32] <Ng> puritans will be puritans ;)
[03:32] <mirak_> but gotta protect the children
[03:32] <mirak_> america is so fucked up ne ways
[03:32] <SmokingFire> Childrens need no protections. How else would farmer childrens manage with all the bulls and cows doing their thing?
[03:32] <maswan> but american-style "eek. breasts are evil. think of the children!"-stuff is starting to turn up in society. ./
[03:33] <maswan> :/ even
[03:33] <mirak_> i am sorry room...i dropped an F' bomb
[03:33] <Ng> SmokingFire: we have a really stupid thing in the tabloids here at the moment. some reality tv show had a woman collect sperm from a pig for insemination and the papers went mental and claimed it was bestiality ;)
[03:34] <mirak_> wtf......they show that on mtv here.....daytime.....but it was johhny knoxville, and a cow
[03:34] <SmokingFire> Ng: I saw the pics of it, beckhams ex hooker-friend right?
[03:34] <mirak_> well, he just inceminated the cow
[03:34] <tseng> hey kids, checkout the topic
[03:34] <tseng> its about Ubuntu Linux, cool!
[03:34] <Ng> mirak_: yup, mtv uk had the dirty sanchez (jackass with welsh) boys doing it with a stallion ;)
[03:35] <Ng> SmokingFire: thankfully I don't know that many details about it :)
[03:35] <SmokingFire> tseng: ubuntu is about pig insemination not
[03:35] <Ng> tseng: fair point :)
[03:35] <SmokingFire> Ng: I can find the pics for you
[03:35] <Ng> tseng: ubuntu is just so controversial ;)
[03:35] <tseng> no pictures
[03:35] <Ng> SmokingFire: seriously, no thanks
[03:35] <mirak_> so who wants to start an animal incemination channel????
[03:35] <tseng> would you please get off it
[03:36] <SmokingFire> tseng: ok
[03:36] <tseng> ta.
[03:36] <mirak_> smokingfire: remember when i said the flash was working, well it is functional, but not 100%
[03:36] <SmokingFire> why not?
[03:36] <mirak_> smokingfire: i would call it 50%
[03:37] <paranoid_android> cant find FSTAB
[03:37] <SmokingFire> ok
[03:37] <mirak_> smokingfire: do you know waht purevolume.com is???
[03:37] <SmokingFire> ehat sites did you check on? As macromedia director is a different format.
[03:37] <SmokingFire> mirak_: no, but will try now
[03:37] <crimsun> paranoid_android: /etc/fstab
[03:37] <mirak_> purevolume.com/bedforddrive
[03:38] <mirak_> there is a pop-up player...it is supposed to display the names of the tracks......it doesnt......but the songs play fine....and everything else is functional
[03:38] <paranoid_android> There is no Fstab.
[03:38] <SmokingFire> mirak_: the frontpage of http://www.purevolume.com/ also giving you problems
[03:38] <crimsun> paranoid_android: there will not be a Fstab but a fstab
[03:39] <crimsun> paranoid_android: case sensitivity
[03:39] <mirak_> didnt check it...i go to the direct band page
[03:39] <punkass> mirak_: works fine here
[03:39] <nate> goodness
[03:39] <nate> I just updated
[03:39] <mirak_> no...the main page is fine.....just the player is not displaying the track names
[03:39] <nate> the new default desktop certainly is striking
[03:39] <nate> also, pantsfree
[03:40] <mirak_> lol........"dead horse" ???????
[03:40] <SmokingFire> mirak_: http://www.purevolume.com/bedforddrive seems ok for me
[03:40] <mirak_> try the pop-up player
[03:40] <SmokingFire> but I'm using a special configuration
[03:40] <mirak_> ahhhhh
[03:40] <mirak_> does the pop-up player display the track names???
[03:40] <imnes> Just got ubuntu installed how can I install / enable the commercial nvidia drivers?
[03:40] <SmokingFire> mirak_: even in popup I see trackname
[03:40] <imnes> I was told that they're included but dunno for sure.
[03:41] <crimsun> imnes: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BinaryDriverHowto
[03:41] <mirak_> ok.....maybe after a restart it will be fixed????
[03:41] <mirak_> didnt restart after flash install
[03:41] <imnes> thanks
[03:41] <SmokingFire> mirak_: my special config would be that I kept the configuration files that I used when Ubuntu still shipped with firefox pr1.
[03:41] <mirak_> ahh....why did they stop???
[03:41] <mirak_> ther PRL is so much better
[03:42] <Dekkard> yep..just had to restart that cupsd.. knew it all along... that was just a test..
[03:42] <crimsun> PR is too unstable
[03:42] <SmokingFire> mirak_: restart is not alway needed. however a log off and on, should help most of the times.
[03:42] <mirak_> if i install it will it replace the current version???
[03:42] <mirak_> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/ .......if i install to that directory?
[03:43] <SmokingFire> mirak_: not as far as I know as the other distro's that I used normally just installed firefox in the home directory.
[03:43] <mirak_> smokingfire: yeah....by default......but you can change the directory
[03:44] <SmokingFire> never got to chancing that default. 
[03:45] <baHam> my mouse wheel doesnt work
[03:45] <baHam> after last reboot 
[03:45] <mirak_> baHam: did you change anything???
[03:45] <baHam> mirak_, no..
[03:45] <baHam> that's the point
[03:45] <baHam> maybe I installed something that did..
[03:46] <SmokingFire> I saw once this docu about Russians space program compared to modern (at that time) US space program. A Russian astronaut said that the Russians have a saying and mentality: If it's not broken don't fix it.
[03:46] <mirak_> baHam: im a noob i cant really help, but i know that you can change it in the xfree86 config file.......or whatever it is called
[03:46] <mirak_> but i dont know what to change
[03:46] <baHam> I already tried
[03:46] <baHam> ;>
[03:46] <mirak_> well...i tried
[03:46] <mirak_> to help that is
[03:47] <mirak_> sorry
[03:47] <SmokingFire> baHam: using usb mouse?
[03:47] <paranoid_android> Sorry, but i cannot find "fstab"
[03:47] <baHam> yep
[03:47] <mirak_> ahh...i use ps2
[03:47] <baHam> SmokingFire, yep
[03:47] <DeepSpaceAnt> baHam ur mouse still doesn't work?
[03:47] <baHam> My mouse works but I cant scroll.. that makes me nervous
[03:48] <mirak_> anyone wanna help me get all 4 of my mouse buttons working????
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> baHam: is it a USB mouse/
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> I know how
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> wait
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> usb?
[03:48] <mirak_> well 4 plus a scroll wheel
[03:48] <MojoPete> all 4?
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> mostly
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> k
[03:48] <crimsun> paranoid_android: /etc/fstab  <-- full path
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> under /etc/X11/XF86config-4
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> and in there
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> go under inputdevice
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> for the mouse
[03:48] <mirak_> i have left right  scroll  and 2 more.....in window they go forward and backwards in a browser
[03:48] <DeepSpaceAnt> and add these lines
[03:49] <baHam> yeah DeepSpaceAnt 
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
[03:49] <jvic> hello folks
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> I think like that
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> and
[03:49] <mirak_> deepspaceagent: me?? or Baham
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> Option "Buttons" "7"
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> both
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> I guess
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> add those two lines
[03:49] <SmokingFire> mirak_: that takes an kernel additions and recompile, very complicated as far as I know
[03:49] <DeepSpaceAnt> and restart X server and try it out
[03:49] <mirak_> smokingfire: forget it then.....i can live without it
[03:49] <crimsun> I have Option "YAxisMapping""6 7", too
[03:49] <jvic> so i found out how to temporarely solve the problem with not opening new applications... i executed "xhost +", and then i don't have that problem anymore. But that's an ugly bug...
[03:50] <DeepSpaceAnt> crimsun and ur scroll wheel doesn't work?
[03:50] <mirak_> smokingfire: its just a novelty
[03:50] <crimsun> DeepSpaceAnt: ibm scrollpoint. it works fine.
[03:50] <DeepSpaceAnt> k
[03:50] <DeepSpaceAnt> well depends
[03:50] <DeepSpaceAnt> sometimes "6 7" works
[03:50] <DeepSpaceAnt> else "4 5"
[03:50] <MojoPete> jvic: you couldn't just restart X?
[03:50] <paranoid_android> Thats what i do. It says "no such file or directory" or something?
[03:50] <DeepSpaceAnt> hit control -backspace
[03:50] <crimsun> DeepSpaceAnt: i use Option "ZAxisMapping""4 5"  and what I just pasted.
[03:51] <DeepSpaceAnt> icic
[03:51] <DeepSpaceAnt> k
[03:51] <DeepSpaceAnt> baHam got it?
[03:51] <SmokingFire> mirak_: My self I have a logitech mx500 with next to three buttons and a scroll wheel, back and forward buttons, pageup and page down buttons and a special button. I would like to configure it too.
[03:51] <mirak_> smokingfire: gonna log out....brb....trying to get flash to wrok right
[03:52] <SmokingFire> mirak_: ok
[03:52] <crimsun> paranoid_android: you have no /etc/fstab? where in Linux are you currently? (console, X, ...)
[03:52] <baHam> DeepSpaceAnt, no
[03:52] <baHam> DeepSpaceAnt, It is already there
[03:52] <mirak_> smokingfire: that is alot of buttons
[03:52] <mirak_> brb
[03:52] <paranoid_android> X
[03:52] <DeepSpaceAnt> baHam is it  
[03:52] <DeepSpaceAnt> baHam"4 5" or "6 7"
[03:52] <DeepSpaceAnt> baHam change it to the other one
[03:52] <baHam> 4 5
[03:53] <DeepSpaceAnt> make it 6 7
[03:53] <SmokingFire> baHam: what does the input section of your xfree config say?
[03:53] <paranoid_android> Im in X
[03:53] <SmokingFire> paranoid_android: paranoid_android: (There was an error converting this message.  Check the 'Encoding' option in the Account Editor)
[03:53] <mirak_> back
[03:53] <SmokingFire> and?
[03:53] <mirak_> havent treied yet
[03:54] <SmokingFire> ok
[03:54] <paranoid_android> what?
[03:54] <mirak_> still no workie
[03:54] <SmokingFire> paranoid_android: that was the error IRC printed on my screen
[03:54] <crimsun> paranoid_android: ok, how large is your Windows partition?
[03:55] <paranoid_android> 5.GB
[03:55] <mirak_> MAN, DO I LOVE GNOME
[03:55] <SmokingFire> mirak_: it works?
[03:56] <mirak_> smokingfire: nope
[03:56] <SmokingFire> ooh why do you love it then?
[03:56] <mirak_> smokingfire: still the smae
[03:56] <crimsun> paranoid_android: can you paste /proc/partitions in #flood?
[03:56] <baHam> doesnt work ;_;
[03:56] <mirak_> 00, just a random shout.....kde was turning me away from linux......gnome is pulling me in
[03:57] <JanneM> heh
[03:57] <SmokingFire> ok, to bad it doesn't work
[03:57] <mirak_> i dont think my issue has anything to do with gnome....i believe it to be a firefix or  flash problem
[03:57] <mirak_> but it is too bad....ill worry about it later
[03:57] <SmokingFire> hey mirak_ try and search flashplugin in synaptic now.
[03:58] <paranoid_android> You want me to paste the /proc/partitions info here?
[03:58] <socomm> mirak_: why don't you install by hand?
[03:58] <JasonI> does anybody know if there is a 64-bit binary built yet of the flash plugin for linux?
[03:58] <socomm> paranoid_android: #flood
[03:58] <SmokingFire> socomm: he did but doesn;t work
[03:59] <crimsun> paranoid_android: not here, #flood
[03:59] <socomm> SmokingFire: it works here, you have to give it a relative path to mozilla-firefox plugin.
[03:59] <mirak_> this should work.....it seems to be installing other dependancies as well
[03:59] <SmokingFire> socomm: works but not 100% with manual install
[03:59] <socomm> SmokingFire: what's the catch?
[03:59] <paranoid_android> I new at this. #flood?
[03:59] <crimsun> paranoid_android: /join #flood
[03:59] <paranoid_android> oh
[03:59] <socomm> paranoid_android: `/join #flood'
[04:00] <socomm> paranoid_android: and paste your stuff there.
[04:00] <mirak_> socomm: it wasnt displaying track names in a pop-up falsh mp3 player from purevolume.com
[04:00] <SmokingFire> socomm: don't know why it works on your desk. It basically works on his desk just not on a specific site that works on my ubuntu desk.
[04:01] <socomm> mirak_: that works here :^/
[04:01] <mirak_> still no workie
[04:01] <socomm> Maybe I'm just 1337 like that :^P
[04:01] <mirak_> socomm: maybe
[04:01] <mirak_> socommL cuz im deff a newb
[04:02] <socomm> mirak_: we all gotta start somewhere.
[04:02] <mirak_> socomm: tru.dat
[04:02] <mirak_> haha
[04:02] <SmokingFire> mirak_ , socomm: It works on my desk but I kept the files when ubuntu still had ff PR1 
[04:03] <mirak_> socomm: you think if i reinstall firefox, but install the prl, it will overwrite the current one???
[04:04] <mirak_> socomm: let me rephrase that....if i install the firefox prl, will it overwrite my current instalation?
[04:05] <mirak_> socomm: if i send it to the correct dir?
[04:07] <socomm> mirak_: dunno.
[04:08] <socomm> The correct dir is /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins
[04:08] <baHamhelp> hey
[04:08] <mirak_> no no.to install firefox1.0
[04:08] <baHamhelp> need help -,-
[04:08] <socomm> mirak_: and I don't know I haven't installed it myself.
[04:09] <mirak_> ok
[04:09] <baHamhelp> when I reconfigure my xserver-xfree86 it doesnt write the conf into the file, my x doesnt start.. what to do ???
[04:09] <socomm> Try unpacking it to your homdir and coping the plugins to your homes firefox plugin dir
[04:09] <mirak_> looks like i am the guinie pig.......ill let you guys know
[04:09] <socomm> s/homdir/homedir
[04:09] <baHamhelp> when I reconfigure my xserver-xfree86 it doesnt write the conf into the file, my x doesnt start.. what to do ??? Please help me ;_; it's urgent
[04:09] <socomm> baHamhelp: are you configuring it as super user?
[04:09] <baHamhelp> sure
[04:10] <socomm> You'll need to configure it as sudo. Be sure you're doing it as sudo.
[04:10] <mirak_> it is a graphical installer
[04:10] <mirak_> how do i sudo that????
[04:11] <baHamhelp> I tried
[04:11] <mirak_> or are you not talking to me???
[04:11] <jedix> Ng, how'd you install the nvidia drivers?
[04:11] <baHamhelp> i am sudo
[04:11] <baHamhelp> i mean i tried with root
[04:11] <baHamhelp> but doesnt work
[04:11] <socomm> bam what command are your running?
[04:11] <baHamhelp> let me try to reboot
[04:11] <jedix> Ng, in fedora that is.. it wants me to shut down x
[04:11] <socomm> mirak_: install it into your homedir that way your current install doesn't get hossed.
[04:12] <mirak_> i want my current to get tossed
[04:12] <mirak_> i want to replace it
[04:12] <socomm> Hmm ... all right.
[04:12] <mirak_> i just installed this today
[04:12] <mirak_> onlything i have done is mp3 support and flash
[04:12] <mirak_> so a reinstall in no big deal
[04:13] <socomm> I don't think this w ill fix your flash problems, but nothing wrong with trying.
[04:13] <mirak_> thats what i am saying.....i read all over the place the best way to learn linux is to break it and then fix it
[04:14] <socomm> Trial and error.
[04:14] <mirak_> also i dont like to install things to home, its kinda like having a cluttered desktop
[04:14] <whiprush> I see morrell has decided to crash the ubuntu party ...
[04:14] <whiprush> :(
[04:15] <mirak_> whiprush: ??????
[04:15] <mirak_> who is morell
[04:15] <whiprush> the guy being a tool on the mailing list. aka. the former smoothwall developer.
[04:16] <SmokingFire> mirak_: My motto is: "I grow it, not buy it"
[04:16] <mirak_> smokingfire: random thought, cuz that was over my head, unless you are smoking weed
[04:17] <socomm> mirak_: or growing vegtables.
[04:17] <mirak_> yeah...i guess
[04:17] <unlokia> hey guys
[04:17] <SmokingFire> mirak_: I read something about the next version of ubuntu will have separte directories for images, downloads and others.
[04:17] <unlokia> You all ok
[04:17] <unlokia> I wanna learn about ubuntu
[04:17] <mirak_> that would be nice
[04:17] <unlokia> Can u help me
[04:17] <unlokia> ??
[04:17] <socomm> unlokia: we can ....
[04:17] <mirak_> unlokia: we are all learning, learn with us
[04:18] <unlokia> I wanna know
[04:18] <unlokia> I have FEDORA installed
[04:18] <unlokia> can I simply install UB over it
[04:18] <unlokia> ?
[04:18] <baHam> no you are in #ubuntu go to #fedora
[04:18] <socomm> unlokia: yes.
[04:18] <socomm> Next question.
[04:18] <unlokia> baham u miss the point mate
[04:18] <mirak_> how do i sudo with a graphical installer?????
[04:18] <SmokingFire> mirak_: clutterd /home is what nautilus was made fore. Just create new directories and move and copy files
[04:19] <limaunion> unlokia: sure, just overwrite (format) you FC partition
[04:19] <jdub> unlokia: do you have a separate /home partition?
[04:19] <socomm> mirak_: use the terminal to launch the installer.
[04:19] <mirak_> smokingfire: so i should just make a dir called "apps"
[04:19] <unlokia> havent a clue - all I know is that I have K12LTSP in there and wanna try UBUNTU#
[04:19] <socomm> mirak_: `sudo ./installer.bin'
[04:19] <SmokingFire> mirak_: really depends on your personal choices
[04:20] <neuro_> [03:14]  <whiprush> I see morrell has decided to crash the ubuntu party ...
[04:20] <neuro_> :(((((
[04:20] <mirak_> socomm: ok......but i cant remember how to change directory from terminal
[04:20] <unlokia> gonna try the live cd first
[04:20] <socomm> mirak_: 'cd directory_you_wanna_change_to'
[04:20] <SmokingFire> mirak_: cd >changed directory<
[04:21] <SmokingFire> mirak_: guess you are from the generation that never saw ms-dos
[04:21] <SmokingFire> mirak_: same command on windows 2000/xp btw/
[04:21] <unlokia> lol yeah dos was cool at the time
[04:21] <mirak_> smokingfire: i am 20, i know about dos, but never used it for much more than fdisk
[04:21] <unlokia> cd = current dir
[04:21] <unlokia> i remember win 3.1 :-S
[04:21] <mirak_> me too
[04:21] <unlokia> what a joke it was
[04:22] <socomm> http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/linux/cmd/
[04:22] <mirak_> still got it around here somewhere
[04:22] <unlokia> as are all M$ tings
[04:22] <mirak_> lol
[04:22] <SmokingFire> unlokia: as far as i know cd means change directory as when you enter cd <directory> it changes the dir...
[04:22] <unlokia> under-developed and missold
[04:22] <unlokia> current directory mate
[04:23] <mirak_> i figued it out.............haHA
[04:23] <unlokia> smokingfire do a goooogle on cd
[04:23] <unlokia> and get amazon.com back!!
[04:23] <SmokingFire> unlokia: when was an intern many years ago (about 6) they only had an win3.11 computer for me on 386 and it never crashed on me. However I never used more then word and solitaire.
[04:23] <Kamion> unlokia: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/cd.html
[04:24] <mirak_> socomm: could you tell me the dir whre firefox is installed to again plz
[04:24] <unlokia> Anyone seen the game CHROMIUM on ,linux?
[04:24] <Kamion> "current [working]  directory" is usually abbreviated to "cwd"
[04:24] <socomm> mirak_: run `whereis firefox'
[04:24] <socomm> mirak_: should be /usr/bin/firefox
[04:24] <JanneM> unlokia: yep. NEver got into it though
[04:24] <unlokia> Hey anyone managed to get linux onto xbox yet
[04:24] <mirak_> thnx
[04:24] <JanneM> unlokia: yes
[04:25] <unlokia> janneN u have mate??
[04:25] <unlokia> sorry 'M'
[04:25] <JanneM> I have what?
[04:25] <unlokia> got linux on xbox?
[04:25] <JanneM> no
[04:25] <unlokia> oops soryy
[04:25] <JanneM> but there are people who have
[04:26] <limaunion> mate ? ;)
[04:26] <SmokingFire> Why would you want ubuntu on xbox?
[04:26] <JanneM> limaunion: australian would be a wild guess
[04:26] <aaronwaite> am i in time for the community meeting or did i do my time math wrong again? :)
[04:26] <JanneM> SmokingFire: because it's there, I guess
[04:27] <mirak_> i give up........looks like im just installing it to home
[04:27] <SmokingFire> I want ubuntu on my vcr as much and its there
[04:27] <aaronwaite> i've been challenged to get ubuntu running on a powermac 6100 - but i'm pretty sure it's not possible.
[04:27] <mirak_> it should.did you get the ppc iso
[04:28] <socomm> I'm out.
[04:28] <aaronwaite> yeah. i have that - but this is an "old world" machine and MIGHT have 24Mb of RAM.
[04:28] <SmokingFire> I'm still in
[04:28] <JanneM> the older powermacs have a lot of weird, nonstandard hardware I believe
[04:28] <Kamion> aaronwaite: that's oldworld, sorry, not possible
[04:28] <aaronwaite> i'm going to try openbsd, but that's a different forum. :)
[04:28] <JanneM> perhaps a console-only minimal install?
[04:28] <Kamion> oldworlds are really hard to support at all and only barely work sometimes in Debian with a lot of hacking
[04:28] <Kamion> JanneM: won't help
[04:28] <SmokingFire> aaronwaite: don't think modern gnome/kde would work on that ram
[04:28] <mirak_> very strange.......it is still ppc
[04:29] <Kamion> mirak_: it's weird powerpc, generally doesn't boot from CD just for a start
[04:29] <JanneM> SmokingFire: XFCe would probably run fine, though, if ram was the only issue
[04:29] <aaronwaite> yeah... it has a funky network interface, no USB, a really weird video card.... 
[04:29] <SmokingFire> mirak_: like pentium is still 486
[04:29] <aaronwaite> keep in mind... this is a 33Mhz machine. 
[04:29] <Kamion> oldworld openfirmware is generally pretty broken
[04:29] <mirak_> well, get a boot disk for it from apple, then try it
[04:30] <SmokingFire> yeah should ask apple nut heads
[04:30] <aaronwaite> i'm going to play with it this weekend. if anyone is interested, i'll report back here or on the users mailing list.
[04:30] <Kamion> we also don't have the pieces in the installer that would help on oldworld.
[04:30] <mirak_> i like apple, beta testing osX was the sh*t
[04:30] <Kamion> aaronwaite: don't bother trying Ubuntu on oldworld, right now you really would be wasting your time I'm afraid. You might be able to get Debian going if you work fairly hard at it.
[04:31] <aaronwaite> Kamion: i wholeheartedly agree. :)
[04:31] <aaronwaite> wow. i'm talking to THE expert! i'm honored. 
[04:31] <crimsun> it runs on a Pentium 233 w/ some effort
[04:31] <jdub> (Kamion is is a cyborg, btw, with thermonuclear fuel cells. It's pretty rad.)
[04:31] <Kamion> aaronwaite: not that I've ever got my oldworld box booting anything
[04:31] <aaronwaite> oh, it totally does crimsun. i have it running on a Pentium 133.
[04:32] <crimsun> cool.
[04:32] <Kamion> aaronwaite: but I need to get Mac OS <some-insanely-specific-version> for that, and it just hasn't made it high enough up the priority queue ...
[04:32] <crimsun> i have a lab of 200s and 233s that will be getting the ubuntu treatment
[04:32] <aaronwaite> i plan on replacing my 300Mhz Slackware box that hasn't been rebooted in 3 years with Ubuntu soon. just cause i like it. 
[04:32] <Kamion> (whereas jdub, of course, is a direct clone of at least one of Keanu Reeves' film personalities.)
[04:33] <jdub> spliced, dude
[04:33] <jdub> (whoa.)
[04:33] <crimsun> (excellent.)
[04:33] <aaronwaite> so have we not officially started the "meeting" yet? (this is my first IRC meeting)
[04:33] <Kamion> meeting?
[04:34] <aaronwaite> it was announded on the mailing list.
[04:34] <jdub> aaronwaite: with a time, too ;)
[04:34] <aaronwaite> announced even. 
[04:34] <Kamion> 1400 UTC is ... some time away
[04:34] <Kamion> and Monday, too :)
[04:34] <aaronwaite> i'm recovering from surgery and on mega pain meds. i'm too drowsy to do the math. i figured i'd just show up and wait. :)
[04:35] <aaronwaite> oh... yeah... monday... i probably can't wait that long. :)
[04:35] <Kamion> the day was just in the subject line of Mark's message, I think
[04:35] <JanneM> aaronwaite: with fun enough meds you'll see time will fly like nothing :)
[04:35] <aaronwaite> hehe
[04:35] <SmokingFire> there is a meeting?
[04:36] <JanneM> monday
[04:36] <SmokingFire> ooh
[04:36] <SmokingFire> :(
[04:36] <aaronwaite> so can i ask a question that hasn't been answered on the mailing list yet, or is that overkill?
[04:36] <SmokingFire> would like to know how an OS development team works and things
[04:36] <SmokingFire> thinks
[04:37] <crimsun> aaronwaite: by all means
[04:37] <SmokingFire> So ubuntu guys know the the kernel like the pope knows the bible?
[04:37] <helix> does anyone have the october mbox of ubuntu-users they can send me?
[04:38] <aaronwaite> thanks! i went to change the lovely sepia background today and no matter what i select as a different image (or color for that matter) it doesn't change. it simply does nothing.
[04:38] <crimsun> helix: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October.txt.gz
[04:38] <jdub> aaronwaite: have you restarted your session?
[04:38] <aaronwaite> i've never heard of such a thing, so i don't even know how to troubleshoot.
[04:38] <SmokingFire> aaronwaite: I have that same problem now and then. log off and changes it.
[04:38] <helix> hmm
[04:38] <aaronwaite> yep. restarted the session and the whole computer a few times.
[04:38] <jdub> aaronwaite: that generally ends up being a desync bug between gnome-settings-ademon and friends
[04:38] <baHam> aaronwaite, it's a gnome problem, just restart 
[04:39] <aaronwaite> ok. i'm going to hold you to that. i'll be right back. :-)
[04:39] <baHam> Hey guys, do you like my desktop: http://img71.exs.cx/img71/3006/Screenshot13.jpg
[04:39] <baHam> ?
[04:39] <SmokingFire> nice how did you get gsesklets to work?
[04:39] <crimsun> jdub: so logging out and back in should resolve that?
[04:40] <SmokingFire> I downloaded it from synaptic and nothing happens
[04:40] <aaronwaite> ok. so you made a liar out of me. 
[04:40] <SmokingFire> even clicking on the meny
[04:40] <jdub> generally, unless g-s-d is still there, etc.
[04:40] <crimsun> jdub: ok, thanks. Good to know. :)
[04:40] <sepheebear> usually a killall nautilus clears it up for me
[04:40] <helix> mutt seems unhappy with this.
[04:40] <aaronwaite> oddly though, i HAVE restarted the computer several times today with no success. wierd.
[04:41] <SmokingFire> aaronwaite: you are a liar!!
[04:41] <aaronwaite> i know, i know. so sue me. :)
[04:41] <SmokingFire> aaronwaite: gnome/gnu people have no reason to lie!
[04:41] <baHam> SmokingFire, it's easy
[04:41] <SmokingFire> baHam: please share
[04:42] <baHam> SmokingFire, just download the desklet, install it by launching the Install_blabla.py or .bin and then run "gdesklets desklet.display"
[04:42] <SmokingFire> but in synaptic I find the program gdesklets, what does it do/
[04:43] <limaunion> baHam: nice icons just don't like the background image; from where did you get the icons ?
[04:43] <sepheebear> isnt there a new gdesklets with somw sorta browser or something to make that easier?
[04:43] <baHam> limaunion, they are called gant
[04:43] <SmokingFire> baham
[04:43] <SmokingFire> baHam: will try it
[04:43] <aaronwaite> can anyone elaborate on SVG support in Gnome? i've been having fun making vector backgrounds - but they must be rasterized at some point as i see some jaggies sometimes.
[04:44] <baHam> hey
[04:44] <baHam> what is the default password of root in ubuntu ?
[04:44] <baHam> my buddy just got it.. and he cant access to root
[04:45] <limaunion> baHam: ok thanks
[04:45] <ogra> ba:H: no root password, use your own
[04:45] <joem> there is no root account set up, the user created durring install has full sudo privs
[04:46] <SmokingFire> baHam: I installed gdesklets and gdesklets-data from synaptic
[04:46] <ogra> baHam: or use a rootshell from the menu
[04:46] <baHam> it requires a password
[04:46] <ernesto> hola alguien habla espaol
[04:46] <ernesto> ?
[04:46] <ogra> baHam: yes, yours
[04:46] <baHam> ernest: io ablo un pochito espanol
[04:46] <ernesto> ok, 
[04:46] <SmokingFire> when moving to /usr/share/gdesklets it gives me this:
[04:47] <SmokingFire> Displays  Themes  data     display  gdesklets    locale  pack_sensor.py  utils
[04:47] <SmokingFire> Sensors   config  desktop  factory  libdesklets  main    sensor
[04:47] <baHam> ernest: que es el problema 
[04:47] <baHam> ernest: io ablo italiano e francese ablo pochito espanol
[04:47] <SmokingFire> who is ernesto
[04:47] <SmokingFire> ernest?
[04:47] <baHam> ernesto
[04:48] <Randomize> So, what do people typically do to get their multimedia keys working under X?
[04:48] <baHam> hemingway..?
[04:48] <baHam> :D
[04:48] <baHam> Randomize, what do you mean
[04:48] <limaunion> baHam: :)
[04:48] <SmokingFire> Randomize: thats easy
[04:48] <Lathiat> Randomize: i use a program called hotkeys
[04:49] <SmokingFire> Randomize: Computer --> Desktop Prefernces ---> keyboard shortcuts
[04:49] <SmokingFire> Randomize: select the option and push the button on your keyboard.
[04:49] <ernesto> sabes si el cdrecord tiene algun forks?
[04:50] <jedix> gaa
[04:50] <Randomize> SF:  ROFL.  OK.  I knew about that but I assumed it wasn't going to work (was too used to it not behaving for me on other distros.)
[04:50] <jedix> this is driving me insane.
[04:50] <Randomize> Thanks, I should have tried it again.
[04:50] <jedix> I cannot get out of x
[04:50] <crimsun> jedix: you can't log out?
[04:50] <Lathiat> jedix: If it wont logout you can press ctrl+alt+backsapce to kill the session
[04:50] <Lathiat> jedix: note youll lose any work etc
[04:51] <limaunion> ernesto: a que te referis a si tiene un fork ?
[04:51] <jedix> it's fedora core 2
[04:51] <baHam> man ubuntu r0x so much
[04:51] <crimsun> jedix: what are you trying to do, log out of your X session, or stop the X display manager?
[04:51] <baHam> that I play counter-strike through steam, speak with the MICROPHONE on TEAMSPEAK 
[04:52] <jedix> crimsun, install nvidia drivers
[04:52] <jedix> I have to be out of x
[04:52] <crimsun> jedix: switch to a console (ctrl+alt+F1), then log in as root and: telinit 3
[04:52] <crimsun> jedix: then run the installer
[04:52] <Lathiat> or you could /etc/init.d/gdm stop, but telinit 3 works too
[04:53] <ernesto> osea a algn software derivado
[04:53] <jedix> crimsun, thank you
[04:53] <crimsun> yw
[04:54] <theantix> tomboy is a really cool app
[04:54] <Lathiat> whats tomboy do? is that that notes application?
[04:54] <limaunion> ernesto: lo podes integrar con xcdroast, pero todavia no lo probe en Ubuntu.
[04:55] <theantix> Lathiat: yeah -- but it has some wiki-like features
[04:55] <Lathiat> theantix: cute
[04:55] <Lathiat> its mono isnt it?
[04:55] <theantix> you need tseng's mono packages though, yeah
[04:55] <Lathiat> i have them yeh
[04:55] <Lathiat> i should try it out, has anyone packaged it or do i need to compile it?
[04:55] <Lathiat> i was traying to get beagle/dashboard to go but it keeps crashing :(
[04:55] <jdub> it's also in tseng's repo
[04:55] <Lathiat> oh it is?
[04:56] <jdub> (tomboy)
[04:56] <Lathiat> cool
[04:56] <theantix> jdub: heh, thanks that would have saved me some effort 
[04:56] <tseng> beagle/dashboard needs newer dbus
[04:56] <tseng> among other things
[04:56] <Lathiat> tseng: Yeh i packaged that for myself
[04:56] <LinuxJones> Hi Jeff,  how are you ??
[04:56] <Lathiat> but like at runtime the gui for dashbaord keeps dying and stuff
[04:57] <Lathiat> might update cvs and try again
[04:57] <tseng> i see.
[04:57] <jdub> yo LinuxJones 
[04:57] <jdub> good
[04:57] <LinuxJones> ;)
[04:57] <tseng> i have yet to use it, there isnt even a release afaik
[04:57] <baHam> aeruder, kansas?
[04:57] <Lathiat> tseng: ooc, what was the alternate method or something you mentioned about those monodep dependencies (i.e. why was my patch wrong?)
[04:57] <Lathiat> *monodevelop
[04:57] <tseng> Lathiat: oh
[04:58] <tseng> Lathiat: dh_netdeps
[04:58] <tseng> figures it out exactly
[04:58] <aeruder> baHam: yup :)
[04:58] <tseng> and then you can just use ${net:Depends}
[04:58] <Lathiat> oh how does it do that?
[04:58] <tseng> magical voodoo.
[04:58] <jedix> crimsun, have any tricks to getting doom3 working?
[04:58] <Lathiat> catch file accesses or somethigni assume?
[04:58] <tseng> i dont know, something like that.
[04:58] <Lathiat> heh tomboy crashes as well :)
[04:59] <tseng> not here.
[04:59] <crimsun> jedix: dunno, try in #nvidia
[04:59] <crimsun> jedix: my system is far underpowered to play that game
[04:59] <mirak_> anyone know where to get the full install for enemy territory????
[05:00] <aaronwaite> speaking of gaim - think we'll get the new version for the final warty release?
[05:00] <Lathiat> mirak_: www.angrygoats.net
[05:00] <mirak_> thnx
[05:00] <baHam> jedix, installed nvidia drivers?
[05:00] <aeruder> what's the status of the Xorg vs. Xfree in ubuntu right now  ? 
[05:00] <ogra> aaronwaite: 4 days of testing ???
[05:00] <jdub> aaronwaite: no, release is wednesday, we are in absolute deep freeze.
[05:00] <jedix> baHam, yes
[05:00] <mirak_> lathiat: all i need is the .exe????
[05:00] <baHam> jedix, so, what's the problem
[05:00] <jdub> aeruder: same as always - x.org due in warty
[05:01] <jdub> aeruder: s/warty/hoary/
[05:01] <aaronwaite> ok. gotcha. i haven't had any issues except for the popup telling me to upgrade when i start it. 
[05:01] <SmokingFire> btw what time and what channel will be the monday meeting be?
[05:01] <mirak_> meeting???
[05:02] <crimsun> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/006543.html
[05:02] <baHam> jedix, what's the problem ?
[05:02] <jedix> baHam, I'm trying copying the pak files again..
[05:02] <mirak_> so what time would that be eastern????
[05:03] <crimsun> -4 hours
[05:03] <baHam> jedix, yeah, copy em and copy the game00 and game01 too
[05:03] <Lathiat> mirak_: not for linux
[05:03] <jedix> baHam, said "Unknown command 'vid_restart'
[05:03] <mirak_> lathiat: i need it for linux
[05:03] <samuelc> I was i was just installiwhewhenever I go to start xwindows, it loads up for about 3 seconds and then dumps me out
[05:03] <baHam> jedix, googlize
[05:04] <mirak_> lathiat: what do i need for linux???
[05:04] <aaronwaite> mirak - i think that means 10:00 eastern standard time. i could be wrong though. i never change my watch when i travel.
[05:04] <crimsun> it is 10:00 AM EDT
[05:04] <mirak_> aaronwaite: i think so too, i am going to have to miss it
[05:04] <mirak_> i will be at work
[05:04] <jedix> baHam, where are the game00 and 01 files?
[05:04] <LinuxJones> crimsun, it's 12:03 ADT :)
[05:04] <aaronwaite> i'll be on pain meds - but i'm going to do my best to be there. :)
[05:05] <crimsun> LinuxJones :P
[05:05] <mirak_> aaronwaite: ill trade ya
[05:05] <LinuxJones> ;)
[05:05] <ernesto> #gnome
[05:05] <mirak_> anyone: linux install file for enemy territory.......where can  get it???
[05:05] <aaronwaite> mirak: i'd almost agree to that. a year off work and limited mobility is starting to make me go crazy. i'd love to go back to work!
[05:05] <baHam> jedix, in the 3rd cd i think
[05:06] <baHam> jedix, I havent installed it yet on ubuntu, it worked fine on debian tho
[05:06] <mirak_> aaronwaite: what happened??????
[05:06] <ogra> LinuxJones: no, 05:06 CEST :)
[05:06] <mirak_> aaronwaite: what could you have possibly done to get a year off???
[05:07] <mirak_> aaronwaite: loss of limbs???
[05:07] <LinuxJones> ogra, you must be far west coast , I am far east coast :P
[05:07] <LinuxJones> wth is cest ?
[05:07] <ogra> LinuxJones: europe ----> very faaaar westcoast *g*
[05:07] <aaronwaite> two ruptured discs, major back surgery - went back to work for supid employers who added a really physical task to my job - another ruptured disc, a second unsuccessful surgery - many months of pysical therapy and cortizone injections with no success, so i'm looking at another surgery.
[05:08] <aaronwaite> the term "spinal fusion" really frightens me though. :-\
[05:08] <LinuxJones> ogra, haha I am very eastern North America :P
[05:09] <ogra> LinuxJones: yay, ubuntu spreads the world
[05:09] <LinuxJones> ogra, ya I am in love :)
[05:09] <aaronwaite> on a positive note though, the pending lawsuit is probably going to get me through college. :)
[05:11] <baHam> does anybody have an mx510 ?
[05:11] <baHam> mouse?
[05:11] <mirak_> jeez...35 min wait before the dl even starts
[05:12] <LinuxJones> ogra, I have finally found the distro that I feel comfortable with in every respect !!! 
[05:12] <ernesto> conocen alguna manera de previsualizar wmf en nautilus?
[05:12] <aaronwaite> has anyone tried the game "America's Army" in linux yet? i was surprised to see a game of that quality for free (i tried it in windows).
[05:12] <mirak_> aaronwaite: where are you, i know here in the us they have a new surjury to where they dont have to fuse the spine, unlesss youa rent a candidate for some reason
[05:12] <SmokingFire> why doesn't xchat on ubuntu look like on this shot:http://freedesktop.org/~keithp/screenshots/giantclock.png
[05:12] <aeruder> aaronwaite: i have...
[05:13] <aeruder> SmokingFire: once we get xorg...
[05:13] <SmokingFire> aeruder: so much better intergrated
[05:13] <aeruder> well... that won't make xchat look like that
[05:13] <aeruder> but it'll give the other coolnesses in that screen ;)
[05:14] <mirak_> onlything i see that is diff is the  white bg
[05:14] <SmokingFire> aeruder: use ubuntu theme and let people them selfs decide what they like
[05:14] <aaronwaite> mirak: i'm in detroit. my doc is aware of those procedures, but the success rate is lower for that and since i've already had two, he doesn't want to risk it.
[05:14] <aaronwaite> aeruder: does it work pretty well? 
[05:14] <mirak_> hmm...somehow i just cut in line at fileplanet
[05:14] <aaronwaite> and you didn't visit!? 
[05:15] <aeruder> aaronwaite: i've found it to be somewhat more unstable wrt acceleration
[05:15] <aeruder> but that may just be an ati radeon driver problem
[05:15] <mirak_> aaronwaite: i am near to detroit, southgate
[05:15] <aaronwaite> aeruder: gotcha. i have a radeon as well. 
[05:15] <ogra> LinuxJones: yeah the right people doing the right stuff (and the right art !)
[05:15] <mirak_> radeon here too
[05:15] <aaronwaite> mirak: cool! i'm actually a little north of detroit in Rochester.
[05:16] <mirak_> aaronwaite: not too far...i work in westland
[05:16] <aaronwaite> maybe we should start an ubuntu users group. hehe.
[05:16] <SmokingFire> anyknow about the command updatedb?
[05:16] <mirak_> aaronwaite: hmmm....sounds like a plan
[05:16] <aeruder> SmokingFire: what about it ? 
[05:16] <aaronwaite> whiprush: rochester michigan? 
[05:16] <whiprush> yeah
[05:17] <SmokingFire> why can't it do realtime updates?
[05:17] <mirak_> aarownwaite: we could just order a buch O' cd's and sweep southwest mich
[05:17] <aaronwaite> cool. anyplace i might know?
[05:17] <LinuxJones> ogra, well maybe I should retract my last iRC statement,,,, :)
[05:17] <SmokingFire> meaning why do I need to run it now and then?
[05:17] <mirak_> err southeast
[05:17] <whiprush> aaronwaite: at oakland.edu, I'm a sysadmin at the engineering school
[05:17] <aeruder> SmokingFire: you really want updatedb burning cycles in the background nonstop ? 
[05:17] <wm_eddie> no im-ja!?!?
[05:17] <wm_eddie> How will I input japanese!?
[05:17] <ogra> LinuxJones: don't you like it ?
[05:18] <aaronwaite> whiprush: cool! i mowed the lawn there for a few summers. :)
[05:18] <mirak_> what is burning cycles?????
[05:18] <SmokingFire> aeruder: smart updating <idle, given total access, or other>
[05:18] <aaronwaite> i'm 6 minutes from oakland.edu.
[05:18] <mirak_> no fair ...he is closer
[05:18] <aeruder> SmokingFire: well, you could put it in a crontab to run once an hour with a high nice level
[05:18] <mirak_> im about 10 mins south of detroit
[05:18] <whiprush> we should link up sometime, I got same mad ubuntu love at work.
[05:18] <SmokingFire> updatedb run as daemon
[05:19] <whiprush> nearly have a mirror up, but some hw difficulties to overcome.
[05:19] <aaronwaite> you're outnumbered mirak. you'll have to come this way for our meeting. :)
[05:19] <mirak_> :(...i know
[05:19] <mirak_> but its ok....its worth it
[05:19] <aaronwaite> i'll buy the person that has to travel the furthest a coffee - or a beer - wherever we happen to meet. :)
[05:19] <LinuxJones> ogra, the art is very well done but...I just can't relate to folks that I do not recognize....If Halle Berry was in those pics ...ya I would be VERY happy with it :D
[05:19] <mirak_> aaronwaite
[05:20] <SmokingFire> if update can run as an idle time daemon it could be the backend of a apple like search tool or now like google desktop search.
[05:20] <mirak_> aaronwaite: thatd be mee
[05:20] <aaronwaite> whiprush: i'm not very mobile at the moment - but if you have a free night, we could try to hook up. aaron@volvoguy.net
[05:20] <whiprush> cool
[05:20] <mirak_> whiprush: what is the prob with the mirror???
[05:20] <whiprush> ubuntu release party. :p
[05:21] <mirak_> whiprush: sounds like a plan
[05:21] <staticactivity> hi everyone
[05:21] <mirak_> hi
[05:21] <aaronwaite> whiprush: i can pick your brain about computer classes at oakland. :) that's probably where i'll go back eventually.
[05:21] <LinuxJones> staticactivity, hi :)
[05:21] <ogra> LinuxJones: i had it running in the office since it's out and it attracted a lot of people.... no negatives... and my company is pretty conservative otherwise
[05:21] <whiprush> mirak_: all I have to spare for it is a sun e450, and most of the disks are missing, so I've been hunting around looking for them.
[05:21] <aaronwaite> o
[05:21] <staticactivity> hey can anyone tell me how i can get colors in Eterm
[05:22] <whiprush> aaronwaite: hopefully by the time you come back we'll have the linux labs up. :p
[05:22] <mirak_> i have an amdk6 1.1ghz laying around
[05:22] <mirak_> i think the mobo has probs though
[05:22] <mirak_> maybe ..maybe not.......havent fully tested it
[05:22] <LinuxJones> ogra, that's great !!! I guess it's just a personal preference :B
[05:22] <aaronwaite> i'm totally in for a release party. we'll have to discuss it offline. 
[05:23] <mirak_> maybe aim chat????
[05:23] <aaronwaite> sure. i'm awaite32
[05:23] <SmokingFire> So any reason why updatedb can't run at idle time?
[05:23] <whiprush> yeah
[05:23] <mirak_> some1playbass
[05:23] <whiprush> aaronwaite: we'll probably hit up BW3's in utica for a release party.
[05:23] <whiprush> I'll mail you though
[05:23] <SmokingFire> BTW: When will ubuntu support windows xp?
[05:24] <mirak_> umm..if thats a bar...im only 20
[05:24] <aaronwaite> whiprush: awesome. let me know.
[05:24] <ogra> LinuxJones: it's linux, everything is personal preference  *g* 
[05:24] <jedix> baHam, you still around? I have everything working except sound :(
[05:24] <SmokingFire> could you explain to me gconf, its an windows like registry?
[05:24] <LinuxJones> ogra,  good point ;)
[05:24] <whiprush> greatest app ever.
[05:25] <SmokingFire> or is gconf a collection of configuration files, that folow as simulair standard?
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> that's what gconf is
[05:26] <Keybuk> SmokingFire: it's basically a collection of XML files
[05:26] <bluefoxicy> a bunch of config files and directories
[05:27] <baHam> jedix, sound is another thing.. does it work on your main ubuntu ?
[05:27] <baHam> jedix, hold on
[05:27] <SmokingFire> ok, few. now binary config, thats good
[05:27] <SmokingFire> now - no
[05:28] <jedix> baHam, yes
[05:28] <SmokingFire> but a common place to config is also good
[05:28] <baHam> jedix, here I am
[05:28] <baHam> jedix, so, it is a different problem.. hmm dunno,, 
[05:28] <jedix> baHam, I think it has to do with alsa
[05:30] <ogra> LinuxJones: nearly dawn here need to sleep ...... g'night
[05:30] <jedix> he sound engine currently requires the OSS API,
[05:30] <jedix> ah
[05:30] <LinuxJones> ogra,  have a good one :)
[05:32] <baHam> O M G
[05:32] <baHam> O M G
[05:32] <baHam> I tried like every existing distro
[05:32] <baHam> and ubuntu really owns everything
[05:32] <baHam> including gentoo and debian
[05:32] <baHam> :Q_____________
[05:32] <LinuxJones> lol
[05:32] <baHam> unsupported stuff works without problems
[05:32] <baHam> i play counterstrike and speak on teamspeak with the microphone 
[05:33] <LinuxJones> baHam,  it is very nice isn't it :D
[05:35] <JanneM> the worrying thing is, this is still the prerelease of the first, rough release
[05:35] <JanneM> sort of wonder how they'll be able to top it
[05:35] <JanneM> since it already works better than most stuff out there (modulo stuff that's not included yet)
[05:36] <baHam> LinuxJones, it pwns everything
[05:36] <punkass> anyone here you waproamd?
[05:36] <punkass> you = use
[05:36] <LinuxJones> Jeff are you still around ?
[05:38] <baHam> haha rocky on TNT
[05:38] <jdub> am now
[05:39] <neuro_> adriaaaaaaan!
[05:39] <LinuxJones> Can I pm you ??
[05:39] <jdub> sure
[05:44] <GOwin> i managed to mess up grub. now i can't boot to ubuntu or windows in my laptop. how can i repair this?
[05:44] <baHam> GOwin, what's the problem
[05:48] <GOwin> i can't boot the system.
[05:48] <chris_> hi, i did a very dumb thing, i accidentely deletet the .dev directory and now i can't boot ubuntu anymore
[05:48] <JanneM> chris_: oops
[05:49] <GOwin> it's a dual boot laptop. it was working ok and had just been usign windows. when i rebooted to go back to ubuntu. i won't work anymore
[05:49] <chris_> JanneM: what can i do?
[05:49] <JanneM> chris_: do you have any important data on the install?
[05:49] <chris_> JanneM: yes
[05:49] <JanneM> ok
[05:49] <JanneM> do you have a partition with another OS?
[05:50] <JanneM> or an empty partition?
[05:50] <chris_> JanneM: winxp
[05:50] <JanneM> ok
[05:50] <JanneM> hmm
[05:50] <JanneM> you can boot using the install disk, or a rescue disk
[05:50] <aaronwaite> ok guys. pain meds kickin' in. i'll talk to y'all later! g'night.
[05:50] <chris_> i already copied the home directory with a windows-tool that gives read-access to extfs
[05:51] <JanneM> mount the partition
[05:51] <JanneM> ok
[05:51] <JanneM> great
[05:51] <JanneM> that was what I was worrying about
[05:51] <JanneM> your data is safe, so now it just a matter of work
[05:52] <JanneM> honestly, I think the only sure way of getting it into a sane state is to redo the install
[05:52] <JanneM> you have your backed up so most installation stuff you can just copy back
[05:52] <JanneM> your home
[05:52] <chris_> JanneM: no good idea, cause i updated the system on a regular basis since i installed the preview release some weeks ago
[05:52] <JanneM> no problem
[05:52] <Keybuk> why does it fail to boot?
[05:52] <Keybuk> what's the error?
[05:52] <JanneM> you install, do one update, and you're back to where you were
[05:53] <JanneM> chris_: there may be a way to regenerate the dir
[05:53] <JanneM> I don't know how, though
[05:53] <chris_> Keybuk: kernel panic, can't read dev console and so on
[05:53] <Keybuk> chris_: how far down the boot process?
[05:54] <Keybuk> can you boot in recovery mode, and if not, failing that if you add init=/bin/sh to the boot line, can you boot with that?
[05:54] <baHam> U B U N T U  R O X
[05:55] <chris_> Keybuk: i erased the .dev directory :-(
[05:55] <Keybuk> chris_: yeah, but you shouldn't need anything in there to just get the system running
[05:55] <JanneM> you need dev for console, don't you?
[05:55] <Keybuk> once you've got a prompt, it's easy to recreate
[05:55] <chris_> Keybuk: how?
[05:55] <JanneM> you can get there with a rescue CD and mount the partition as well
[05:56] <Keybuk> chris_: "MAKEDEV generic"
[05:57] <chris_> Keybuk: that's it`?
[05:58] <Keybuk> chris_: well, if you can get a prompt you'll need to do a few things.  First remount the drive so you can write to it (mount -o rw,remount /), second create /dev (note, no dot) if it doesn't exist (mkdir /dev), change into it (cd /dev) then run MAKEDEV generic
[05:58] <Keybuk> that'll repopulate /dev with the generic device set
[05:58] <chris_> Keybuk: so whats .dev about?
[05:59] <Keybuk> well, on Ubuntu /dev is actually a temporary filesystem that's populated automatically as and when devices are discovered
[05:59] <Keybuk> so it rebinds /dev to /.dev then mounts its own tmpfs over /dev
[05:59] <Keybuk> that happens *very* early in the boot process, but it's not the first thing
[05:59] <chris_> ok, so this has to be the reason for the system not booting?
[06:00] <Keybuk> yeah, it needs things like /dev/console and /dev/null before udev takes over :)
[06:01] <chris_> ok, ill give it a try, thanks for the help
[06:03] <mirak_> i am a noob, i have the file "et-linux-2.56-2.x86.run"....how do i go about installing it????
[06:03] <GOwin> i managed to mess up grub. now i can't boot to ubuntu or windows in my laptop. how can i repair this?
[06:03] <Phr0stByte> ./et-linux-2.56-2.x86.run
[06:03] <punkass> mirak_: in terminal, goto directory where it is,, then do what Phr0stByte said
[06:04] <mirak_> thnx
[06:05] <mirak_> punkass: it says command not found......btw i have to add sudo in front of that
[06:05] <punkass> oh make sure it is executable
[06:05] <mirak_> ls shows the file...so i am in the right directory
[06:06] <mirak_> how to make sure it is executable?
[06:06] <punkass> chmod 775 et-xxxxxxxxxxxx
[06:06] <punkass> should do it
[06:06] <mirak_> exactly that????
[06:06] <punkass> no the name of your file
[06:06] <punkass> xxxxxxxx = i am lazy ;)
[06:06] <Phr0stByte> lol
[06:07] <mirak_> ok so chmod 775 et-linux-2.56-2.x86.run
[06:07] <punkass> yes
[06:07] <mirak_> didnt do anything
[06:07] <mirak_> do i need to sudo??
[06:07] <punkass> now try ./et-linux......
[06:07] <punkass> sudo ./et-linux-xxxx
[06:08] <Phr0stByte> punkass: Any good books you could recommend for learning python?
[06:08] <mirak_> ahh...that was it
[06:08] <mirak_> what did the chmod do?????
[06:08] <Keybuk> Phr0stByte: Dive into Python
[06:08] <punkass> no dont know any..have to get some myself...just have a Python Web programming book from school
[06:08] <crimsun> Phr0stByte: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lpython2/
[06:08] <mirak_> what is python???
[06:09] <punkass> scripting language
[06:09] <crimsun> www.python.org, mirak_ 
[06:09] <LinuxJones> mirak_, a scripting language
[06:09] <mirak_> thnx...........and what does chmod 775 do????
[06:10] <LinuxJones> mirak_, you can build graphical applications with it as well ;)
[06:10] <punkass> 7='owner' can read,write,execute
[06:10] <mirak_> i see on both comments.........thnx
[06:10] <crimsun> many ROX applications are built using Python and its Gtk2 interface
[06:10] <punkass> first 7=owner,  second7=group, third number= anyone
[06:11] <mirak_> wow.......so much to learn
[06:11] <doubletwist> Any ltmodem [winmodem]  experts in the house? :) I have a problem that may or may-not be ubuntu specific.
[06:11] <punkass> crimsun: what level is that book at?
[06:11] <doubletwist> The modem works in windows, and it previously worked in linux on this box as well as another.
[06:11] <doubletwist> I've got ltmodem compiled, and it seems to work ok, I get dialtone and it dials out and negotiates a connection...
[06:11] <mirak_> doubletiwst: did it aouto work with the other distro???
[06:12] <crimsun> punkass: beginning python, covers OOP basics, too
[06:12] <doubletwist> But at the point where it starts authenticating [right after the speakers shuts off] , it disconnects and the log just gives me an "Alarm" entry.
[06:12] <crimsun> punkass: in the ora tradition, there are also Programming - & and - Cookbook titles, too
[06:12] <punkass> crimsun: ooo cookbook my come in handy
[06:12] <doubletwist> mirak_ , yes it worked in debian, on this machine as well as another.
[06:13] <mirak_> OMG.i cant belive it.......yesterday...when i used Yoper, i was toled ther was basically no hope of me running enemy territory due to my ati radeon 7000/ve
[06:13] <mirak_> ubuntu gives me no probs what so ever
[06:13] <mirak_> i am deff settles here
[06:13] <mirak_> settled
[06:13] <punkass> mirak_: runs ut2004 well to
[06:14] <mirak_> really............that is really good to hear
[06:14] <mirak_> how do you do that ooc chat???
[06:15] <mirak_> doubletwist?
[06:15] <doubletwist> type "/me message"
[06:15] <punkass> you can get the linux demo from 3dgamers.com
[06:15] <mirak_> sweet
[06:15] <mirak_> thnx punkass
[06:15] <punkass> np
[06:15] <mirak_> how to update the menus in gnome
[06:15] <mirak_> i just installed screem and ET
[06:15] <punkass> et should show up under Games
[06:15] <doubletwist> Any ideas on the ltmodem/ppp issue? I've tried everything I can think of...
[06:16] <mirak_> punkass: it doenst, do i need to restart, or osmething else, in kde i had to run menueupdate
[06:16] <doubletwist> UT never showed up in my gnome menu.
[06:16] <punkass> hmm a logout/in may do it.. or you can right click on any submenu item and just add it
[06:17] <mirak_> punkass: i dont know why i cant type today.......i does not show under games
[06:17] <mirak_> ill try to logg...brb
[06:17] <punkass> i just installed ut last nite and it appeared under my games menu
[06:18] <ushooz> this is one way to edit the menues
[06:18] <ushooz> menus
[06:18] <mirak_> punkass: it is there now...thnx
[06:18] <ushooz> click applications
[06:18] <mirak_> iwas gone...if that menu update comment was for me
[06:18] <punkass> np
[06:19] <ushooz> go down to run application
[06:19] <mirak_> ok
[06:19] <ushooz> type in applications:///
[06:19] <mirak_> ushooz: exactly that????
[06:19] <ushooz> then you can modify your menu structure
[06:19] <ushooz> yep
[06:20] <mirak_> woa
[06:20] <mirak_> thnx
[06:20] <ushooz> you can add folders move the menu structure around add applications remove application shortcuts etc etc
[06:20] <mirak_> ubuntu is the best thing ever.........it just works, YOPER was a deff linux turn off
[06:20] <punkass> or if u wanna add a submenu item you can right click on any submenu item and just add a new one
[06:20] <mirak_> ushooz: thank you ever so much
[06:20] <ushooz> true
[06:21] <ushooz> but this gives ya more power punkass :)
[06:21] <mirak_> i like the applications:/// approach
[06:21] <mirak_> right
[06:21] <punkass> ushooz: definalty does
[06:21] <ushooz> more control is a better use of words
[06:21] <mirak_> well...ill be back...gonna give ET a test run
[06:21] <ushooz> have fun
[06:22] <mirak_> can i boot to a command line and run it, so gnome isnt chewing ram, my stem isnt the best???
[06:22] <ushooz> it needs X
[06:22] <mirak_> 1.3ghz 256 mb ram ati radeon 7000/ve 64mb
[06:22] <mirak_> ahh
[06:23] <mirak_> what about a light weight X wm???
[06:23] <mirak_> ?????
[06:23] <mirak_> or do you think ill be ok?
[06:23] <punkass> you should be ok i think
[06:23] <doubletwist> afk gonna try something new for ppp.... [crossing fingers] 
[06:24] <punkass> et is not that resource intensive
[06:24] <mirak_> ok.....il be back in a bit to let you know how it went
[06:24] <ushooz> Quake 3 engine
[06:24] <punkass> ushooz: old hat now ;)
[06:24] <ushooz> yeppers
[06:24] <ushooz> 450 PII was reco
[06:25] <punkass> reco?
[06:25] <ushooz> recommended 
[06:25] <punkass> ah yes
[06:25] <punkass> i just wish i could get trackmania workin under linux
[06:26] <ushooz> no idea what that is
[06:26] <crimsun> ddr?
[06:26] <punkass> its a fun little car game
[06:26] <crimsun> ah
[06:26] <crimsun> i'm a fan of Death Rally
[06:26] <punkass> sorta like a the old  'excitebike' but with cars and directX 9
[06:26] <ushooz> ah
[06:27] <punkass> its a lotta fun..people build there own tracks...then u can race multiplayer
[06:27] <GOwin> i made an error in the certificate authority i generated with apache-ssl. how do i generate a new one?
[06:27] <GOwin> it's only for intranet use
[06:28] <punkass> http://www.trackmaniagame.com/?txtShow=scrindex&intGal=2&intStart=10
[06:29] <ushooz> looks nice
[06:29] <punkass> yeah its pretty fun
[06:29] <punkass> simple but fun ;)
[06:35] <punkass> crimsun: you read Dive into Python?
[06:36] <crimsun> i have not
[06:36] <crimsun> i've mostly been using docs from the web
[06:36] <crimsun> Web, sorry.
[06:36] <punkass> ok..its got some good reviews on amazon
[06:36] <punkass> lol
[06:37] <punkass> yeah same here..tho it is nice to a have a reference book around
[06:41] <mirak_> well...i can get all the way to awaiting gamestate...then it crashes
[06:41] <mirak_> sometimes it starts to donload the paks
[06:42] <amroc> holy crap
[06:42] <amroc> im on my laptop on ubuntu
[06:42] <mirak_> and if i try to host my own game, i say i cant write to (random file)
[06:42] <mirak_> amroc: congratz
[06:42] <amroc> i just have a 1X1 inch of screen i cant see... its a box of random fuz and stuff
[06:42] <amroc> like a broken tv
[06:42] <mirak_> punkass: you still around???
[06:43] <amroc> i may go out in a sec or two (depending of if my comp can handle it or not)
[06:43] <ushooz> is it your cursor amroc?
[06:43] <amroc> no, its just...ther
[06:43] <amroc> there*
[06:43] <mirak_> lol
[06:43] <mirak_> ushooz: think you can help me out when you get a chance???
[06:44] <ushooz> in what reguard?
[06:44] <mirak_> ET
[06:44] <ushooz> never played it
[06:44] <mirak_> ok then nvm
[06:44] <mirak_> thnx though
[06:44] <ushooz> np
[06:44] <mirak_> this has got to be the nicest group of ppl ever
[06:45] <mirak_> is synaptek the only place i can go to see what apps are installed????
[06:46] <ushooz> in Ubuntu
[06:46] <mirak_> yes
[06:46] <ushooz> other than command line it is
[06:46] <mirak_> sorry
[06:46] <mirak_> what is the command?
[06:46] <amroc> ok, two things failed on startup
[06:47] <amroc> phiehp.ko and shpchp.ko
[06:47] <amroc> both those failed
[06:47] <amroc> im asuming thats bad
[06:47] <mirak_> pshh.........no idea
[06:47] <mirak_> <[06:51] <mirak_> .
[06:52] <baHam> hey
[06:52] <baHam> how do I kill an app from his PID ?
[06:53] <speel> xkill?
[06:53] <jdub> baHam: kill PID
[06:53] <baHam> I meant
[06:53] <baHam> how to see the pid
[06:53] <Se7h> "unsuficient memory to complete action"
[06:53] <baHam> of an app
[06:53] <Se7h> how do i clean this?
[06:53] <baHam> Se7h, hi :)
[06:53] <mirak_> what is pid??
[06:54] <baHam> how do I see the pids
[06:54] <Se7h> heu baHam
[06:54] <Se7h> *hey
[06:54] <baHam> ps aux ?
[06:54] <jdub> baHam: ps afx
[06:54] <Se7h> baHam ps ax
[06:54] <jdub> or aux or whatever
[06:54] <Se7h> how do i clean memory ?
[06:55] <Se7h> i didn't want to reboot this
[06:58] <SmokingFire> any audio knowledgeable people here?
[06:58] <jdub> ask your question straight up :)
[06:59] <ushooz> mirak_, sorry command line is dselect but I would stick with synaptic for you since you are new to the scene
[07:00] <baHam> ubuntu pwns everybody and everything
[07:00] <mirak_> ushooz: i appreciate you looking out, but id reather get used to the command line, spceially just looking, instead of being afraid of it forever
[07:01] <ushooz> I agree
[07:01] <ushooz> but get used to the upper level stuff then drill down
[07:02] <ushooz> if you really want to learn then go command line only use mutt, links, dillo etc etc. You will learn quickly then :)
[07:03] <ushooz> basicly go guiless :)
[07:04] <dc|ubuntu> .
[07:04] <dewey> say is there a ttf file in ubuntu?
[07:05] <dewey> to install
[07:05] <mirak_> ushooz: lol, im not ready for all of that yet........but i know what you mean
[07:05] <jdub> dewey: almost all the fonts are ttf
[07:05] <ushooz> I am just poking fun... no hard feelings :)
[07:05] <ushooz> would be quite the challenge
[07:06] <mirak_> ushooz: didnt think that at all, no way shape or form, just saying that i already dropped windows completely, been using linux for less than a month, so i want to go slow, but still get accuianted with the comand line
[07:07] <dc|ubuntu> hey, anybody remembers if there's a way to reload .Xdefaults without restartng X?
[07:07] <ushooz> glad to hear that
[07:07] <dewey> jdub: msft ttf?
[07:07] <mirak_> ishooz: im sure all *nix users are
[07:08] <jdub> dewey: those should be in multiverse
[07:08] <dc|ubuntu> mirak_: if you want to drop windows in the real sense, you should try using ion as the window manager *wink*
[07:08] <jdub> dewey: but they can't be installed by default
[07:08] <mattyw24> Hello
[07:08] <JanneM> what is a good file to put config stuff in that you want to run during X startup? Right now I use .gnomerc
[07:08] <dc|ubuntu> JanneM: .xsession?
[07:08] <ushooz> dewey, there is a deb package that fires off a script uses cabextract and installs the msfonts for ya. The MS license does not allow them to be included by default
[07:08] <mirak_> dc|ubuntu: what is ion.....got a url with screenshots???
[07:08] <dc|ubuntu> mirak_: yes, one sec
[07:09] <mirak_> kk
[07:09] <JanneM> dc|ubuntu: didn work
[07:09] <dewey> hmmm is there a deb program to install an rpm?
[07:09] <dc|ubuntu> dewey: rpm?
[07:09] <JanneM> dewey: alien?
[07:09] <JanneM> dc|ubuntu: if you put stuff in .xsession, that's all it ends up running
[07:10] <dc|ubuntu> JanneM: uhm, even if you run in bg?
[07:10] <JanneM> especially
[07:10] <JanneM> it runs through the commands in .xsession, then terminates the session since it returns
[07:11] <JanneM> that's more for starting a separate enironment or WM kind of things 
[07:12] <dc|ubuntu> mirak_: http://awkly.org/photos/screenshots/pytone.png
[07:12] <mirak_> thnx
[07:12] <dewey> ok I see alien so i will try it then :)
[07:12] <mattyw24> Hi: how does ubuntu compare to mepis: I have mepis now and can test it like Knoppix by booting to it, but unfortunately ubuntu 4.1 complained when I tried to install it over my mepis partition
[07:12] <dc|ubuntu> JanneM: i see, i just used it for running ssh-agent once, i though it would work for other stuff as well
[07:12] <mirak_> dc|ubuntu: thnx
[07:12] <ushooz> awesome mp3blaster is being used
[07:13] <ushooz> I use that on my PS2 to play MP3s
[07:13] <JanneM> dc|ubuntu: yeah, I though it - or .xinitrc - would work, but neither does
[07:13] <JanneM> .xinitrc doesn't seem to be soruced at all
[07:13] <mirak_> dc|ubuntu: you are crazy, i wouldnt know what to do with my self, or my computer if i used that
[07:14] <dc|ubuntu> mirak_: oh, i thought you were talking about using terminal-based stuff
[07:15] <dc|ubuntu> hey hazmat
[07:15] <mirak_> dc|ubuntu: well yeah, but i asked if synaptic was the only way to see what apps are installed, ushooz said that or command line, but stick with synaptic, i said id rather try using the commad line for expierence, especially since im only looking, and cant break anything
[07:16] <hazmat> hi dc|ubuntu
[07:16] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, how goes it?
[07:16] <mirak_> dc|ubuntu: thank you though
[07:16] <dc|ubuntu> hazmat: fine, rather tired though
[07:16] <dc|ubuntu> 2am here
[07:16] <hazmat> i did some hacking on marshall earlier this week, refactored for pluggable namespaces, handler delegate to ns, ns to field
[07:17] <dc|ubuntu> great! when are you checking it in?
[07:17] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, i can relate, i haven't slept in 35hrs.
[07:17] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, at the moment i've got in a project repo, i wanted to finish it off and make sure it passes the unit test before pushing back out to public
[07:17] <dc|ubuntu> you are used to it though :)
[07:17] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, yeah.. its a way of life some months
[07:18] <dc|ubuntu> ok, great. i would say if it passes tests just check it in
[07:18] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, there's some questionable/implicit stuff going on though i wanted to query you about.. #archetypes ?
[07:18] <dc|ubuntu> sure
[07:19] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, btw. did you let the canonical guys now about the txn issue/fix w/sqlos?
[07:19] <hazmat> s/know
[07:19] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, you running ubuntu on your powerbook now?
[07:19] <hazmat> no gnome?
[07:20] <hazmat> its done pretty well on my powerbook, haven't tried out the bluetooth stack yet though.
[07:20] <mirak_> hazmat: can i ask a question
[07:21] <mirak_> hazmat: isnt the *nix embedded into osX enough?
[07:21] <dc|ubuntu> hazmat: well, not really. its a mixed system right now. just added ubuntu to sources.list and updated
[07:21] <dc|ubuntu> i've just installed gnome on the ibook though, to check it out
[07:21] <dc|ubuntu> 2.8 is quite slick
[07:22] <dc|ubuntu> revlob_: sqlos, spiv should be watching the checkins
[07:23] <hazmat> mirak_, well there are a few things.. first, linux still feels more productive to me as a developer (although osx is quite nice w/ carbon emacs and launchbar), second, if i want the opensource desktop to get better i should be a participant and developer for it, third, there's a whole stack of tech thats just way exciting to play with like beagle and utopia.
[07:24] <ushooz> I am a fan of Mono and Mono apps
[07:24] <hazmat> dc|ubuntu, word, 2.8 is quite slick.. i'm really surprised though by the lack of a gui runlevel editor.. its in system-tools but it got yanked for ubuntu because of some minor issues.
[07:24] <hazmat> er. from debian
[07:24] <dc|ubuntu> i c
[07:24] <joem> it got yanked because it isn't really supported upstream anymore
[07:24] <Keybuk> *shrug* why do you need a gui runlevel editor?
[07:24] <joem> iirc
[07:24] <Keybuk> it isn't the kind of thing people who care about guis need to be able to do
[07:24] <nate> it's a very popular thing in the Red Hat world
[07:25] <hazmat> because ubuntu is trying hard to be a gui desktop..
[07:25] <mirak_> hazmat: thank you, all i can say really, answered every question i could possibly have
[07:25] <dc|ubuntu> hazmat: do you know of a good font for terminal? i was using artwiz-smooth, but i wanted a smaller one
[07:25] <hazmat> i mean every part of the system is confiugrable via the gui
[07:25] <baHam> hey folks, I'm gon sleep
[07:25] <dewey> dc|ubuntu: what ibook do you have and did you install ubuntu on it?
[07:25] <baHam> cu tomorrow 
[07:25] <ushooz> see ya
[07:25] <hazmat> except the runlevel, packages, config, umounting, etc.
[07:25] <Keybuk> hazmat: what is installed is configurable; trying to present a separate "installed but not activated" layer is confusing
[07:25] <mirak_> later baHam
[07:26] <dc|ubuntu> dewey: clamshell tangerine
[07:26] <jdub> toilet seat!
[07:26] <Keybuk> only experts are ever going to care about the exact order of start-up and having installed but deactivated daemons
[07:26] <dc|ubuntu> dewey: i have debian on it, just got gnome from ubuntu
[07:26] <baHam\\off> y0 mirak_ 
[07:26] <mirak_> oo i used to have one of those.........then it died
[07:26] <dc|ubuntu> yeah, toilet seat :)
[07:26] <dewey> dc|ubuntu: hmmm ok
[07:26] <Keybuk> and those are the kind of people any gui wouldn't satisfy, through inflexibility
[07:26] <hazmat> Keybuk, no its not, there are items like that in mac and windows, ie do you want to turn on sharing, do you want to ABC, etc. 
[07:26] <mirak_> baHam\\off: yes???
[07:26] <nate> yes
[07:26] <Keybuk> hazmat: that's different though :o)
[07:26] <hazmat> its not confusing, its a hell of lot better then forcing people to do symlinks
[07:27] <ushooz> Calm shell iBooks remind me of gigantic womens compacts
[07:27] <nate> that's what I thought when I first met Ubuntu
[07:27] <Keybuk> hazmat: you appear to be missing the point; I'm saying people don't need to do this *at all*
[07:27] <mirak_> keybuk: maybe he does
[07:27] <hazmat> well you seem to have a very narrow definition of what people need to do
[07:27] <nate> I'm sure there are times you might want to stop a service without uninstalling it
[07:27] <jdub> ushooz: gigantic cocaine stash.
[07:27] <attitude> ls
[07:28] <attitude> opps
[07:28] <Keybuk> nate: such as?
[07:28] <attitude> hi all
[07:28] <nate> Do that on Windows all the time.
[07:28] <ushooz> jdub, laugh
[07:28] <hazmat> like i want to turn off personal websharing
[07:28] <Se7h> how do i clean memory ?
[07:28] <jdub> Keybuk: web developer using apache/database every now and then
[07:28] <nate> Keybuk: such as, you have a webserver installed and you suddenly decide you don't want to... right
[07:28] <attitude> arrr
[07:28] <attitude> brb
[07:28] <hazmat> a common theme in both mac and windows service config options
[07:28] <jdub> Keybuk: they're limited, but they do exist
[07:28] <jdub> (still a rare/few case)
[07:28] <hazmat> Keybuk, then why should people even have a gui package manager, they don't need that ;-)
[07:29] <Keybuk> so, in that example, there would be a "personal web service" control somewhere that you could enable and disable
[07:29] <Keybuk> hazmat: installing and updating software is a common activity
[07:29] <Keybuk> but that would be part of the "personal web service" settings ... not a separate place to go and turn on/off everything
[07:29] <Keybuk> analogy
[07:29] <Keybuk> I have a lightswitch in each room
[07:29] <mirak_> question.....apt-get update...apt-get upgrade work in ubuntu, right????
[07:29] <Keybuk> not a bank of lightswitches in a cupboard under the stairs
[07:29] <crimsun> mirak_: yes.
[07:29] <hazmat> sigh.. this is pointless, i'll agree to disagree
[07:29] <nate> Keybuk: why should there be a unique, incompatible, 'disable service' interface for every separate instance of a service? Why not just have a single unified enable/disable UI, ie, a runlevel editor?
[07:29] <jdub> Keybuk: that's right - but that takes into account the fact that it's done :)
[07:30] <jdub> nate: because it's not task focused
[07:30] <nate> ...
[07:30] <mirak_> crimsun: thnx...........with a sudo infront
[07:30] <nate> I'm sorry, that's not an answer
[07:30] <jdub> sure it is
[07:30] <nate> then it's a bad answer
[07:30] <Keybuk> nate: I want to turn off something, the first place I'll look is the configuration for that *something*
[07:30] <nate> not necessarily
[07:30] <mirak_> crimsun: is "sudo" the same thing as "su"?????
[07:30] <jdub> nate: we think in more abstract terms than most users
[07:30] <nate> ...
[07:30] <crimsun> mirak_: no. sudo is more powerful.
[07:31] <dc|ubuntu> http://awkly.org/photos/screenshots/ubuntu.png
[07:31] <crimsun> mirak_: and imo, far preferrable to su
[07:31] <jdub> nate: so we understand the separate concept of daemons
[07:31] <mirak_> crimsun: similar..............like commands???
[07:31] <nate> This is an attitude that bothers me about the whole direction Gnome is heading
[07:31] <jdub> nate: in general, we think about function first
[07:31] <crimsun> mirak_: you will need to read sudo's man page
[07:31] <mirak_> kk.........
[07:31] <jdub> nate: what, the fact that people are thinking very hard about real usability issues, instead of just serving up gulag? :)
[07:31] <sepheebear> wow that lightswitch argument was ingenius, but i can dig the other point of view
[07:31] <aitrus> dc|ubuntu: how can oy stand that font??
[07:31] <mirak_> crimsun: kk
[07:31] <nate> it appears to be getting rid of a lot of simple, universal concepts and trying to replace them with dozens of incompatible single-instance 'task-focused' equivalents which don't quite do the same thing
[07:31] <JanneM> nate: You may want to have an svn repository, and that is one task to turn on - but it involves getting both svn, apache and an apache plugin to run
[07:32] <dc|ubuntu> aitrus: im used to it :)
[07:32] <JanneM> turn off the svn reopo involves turning off multiple things
[07:32] <Keybuk> nate: ok, here's an example; let's create a fictional option "Should the desktop be managed by nautilus?"  do we put that in a) nautilus preferences or b) desktop preferences
[07:32] <nate> good point
[07:32] <dc|ubuntu> need to find a smaller font for the terminal
[07:32] <Se7h> cannot read debian/control:
[07:32] <Se7h> uh?
[07:32] <dc|ubuntu> artwiz-smooth is too big compared to the one im using in xchat ;)
[07:32] <nate> that would depend on whether you can swap out Nautilus for another file manager or not
[07:33] <nate> It probably should be a setting that relates to the desktop as a whole, not to the file manager
[07:33] <jdub> nate: nup, it should work for both :-)
[07:33] <nate> why duplicate a setting?
[07:33] <jdub> no duplicate
[07:33] <attitude> does anyone kow when mplpayer will be available for ubuntu
[07:33] <mirak_> Keybuk: would it be better, istead of arguing (debating, whatever) to give the user a choice, so everone is happy????
[07:33] <Keybuk> nate: you misunderstand, jdub says it should work for nautilus and the possible replacement filemanager
[07:33] <Keybuk> mirak_: nope.
[07:33] <Keybuk> choice confuses novice users
[07:33] <Keybuk> put it in the first place they'll look, and you don't need a choice
[07:33] <aitrus> Keybuk: spoken like a true gnome developer...
[07:33] <jdub> nate: this is the same as the workspaces settings in gnome - it works for multiple window managers
[07:34] <mirak_> but if i use default, then i am fine, but if you want to change, that option is available
[07:34] <nate> and lack of choice frustrates advanced users, but novice users eventually become advanced users and advanced users don't become novices again
[07:34] <jdub> Keybuk: (choice is not relevant here)
[07:34] <dewey> attitude: I installed mplayer from source and it works great.
[07:34] <jdub> ignore the choice comment, it's not relevant
[07:34] <mirak_> i agrre with nate
[07:34] <mirak_> very relevent
[07:34] <nate> so, do you really want to attract a lot of users and then start gradually making them more and more annoyed? Because that's what I think the current Gnome UI philosophy is at risk of doing
[07:35] <jdub> mirak_: not to the topic of discussion
[07:35] <nate> okay if you just want to grow the pool of Linux users, but not if you want to grow the pool of Gnome users
[07:35] <jdub> nate: that's not what is happening
[07:35] <hazmat> lets stick everything in gconf, and remove gconf-editor ;-)
[07:35] <attitude> dewey: I just wanted to apt-get it
[07:35] <jdub> gnome is gaining more users because it's so straightforward to use
[07:35] <Keybuk> it's interesting, as an advanced user I actually prefer GNOME because it, on the whole, does what I mean and stays out of the way
[07:35] <nate> for example, it really really annoys me that to get a box in the GTK file-open dialog where I can type in a file name, I have to go Ctrl-L to bring up a magic hidden option
[07:35] <jdub> for the same reasons OS X is
[07:35] <ushooz> I prefer Gnome because they seem to emulate OSX which is my main OS
[07:36] <ushooz> KDE is not bad though
[07:36] <nate> and then navigate using a weird control whose semantics are different from anything anywhere else
[07:36] <daniels> (for what it's worth, I used to hack on another desktop environment, and since coming across to GNOME, I find its straight-forward clarity and the fact it stays out of my way utter bliss)
[07:36] <dewey> attitude: it worked for me and I have dvds to play :)
[07:36] <nate> I want a small set of simple semantics that are used everywhere
[07:36] <mirak_> i happen to like gnome, i jsut started using it today, much better than kde, but i am stuck with what it defaults too, because i have no other choice, but if i was given a choice, i prob wouldnt know, so i would be fine, but an advanced user would know, and can make that choice
[07:36] <jdub> nate: yes, that is a whole different (and interesting) discussion in itself (re: ctrl-l in filechooser)
[07:36] <jdub> mirak_: the objective is to make it 'just work', so you don't have to frig around :)
[07:36] <JanneM> mirak_: but !advanced" users are able to tweak a lo of stuff
[07:37] <jdub> mirak_: which is one of the reasons why a lot of "advanced" users are using OS X and GNOME
[07:37] <nate> I like a lot of what Gnome does, but I feel quite claustrophobic in many of the configuration dialogs
[07:37] <JanneM> mirak_: it's just that those choices and tweaks should not be apparent to the casual user
[07:37] <tolle_> I find it funny that so many "Advanced" users wants all their options in menus, and not in gconf and stuff like that.
[07:37] <jdub> nate: so if you find a behaviour that is incorrect, it should be dealt with
[07:37] <ushooz> I play on Linux with Gnome and KDE when I want to just get work done and for the machine to just work without me thinking about it I use OSX
[07:38] <jdub> nate: that's how these things are approached -> blindly adding options is not the way to make things 'just work'
[07:38] <nate> jdub: The problem is that I keep feeling that the things I think are incorrect are actually 'correct' according to the HIG, and that bothers me
[07:38] <Keybuk> nate: what kind of thing do you think is incorrect?
[07:38] <JanneM> nate: but then perhaps the HIG has a bug
[07:38] <jdub> nate: the hig might be wrong - what is incorrect?
[07:38] <mirak_> wow, flame me...........jj...........i guess i just dont know enough about the linux world to include myself in a discussion like this, all i was trying to say was im fine with it the way it is, but if i decide i want to change later, i would like that option available to me
[07:38] <nate> Keybuk: Not having a name-entry box on the file open dialog, for one
[07:38] <nate> I don't care if that's how OSX does it. OSX is wrong, IMO
[07:38] <JanneM> mirak_: this is a long-standing discussion :)
[07:38] <JanneM> mirak_: don't worry
[07:39] <nate> one should never be forced to use the mouse where one can use the keyboard
[07:39] <joem> all of this is pretty subjective
[07:39] <Keybuk> nate: that's not an HIG-specified thing ... there is a lot of debate about *that* one
[07:39] <nate> oh good
[07:39] <JanneM> nate: ctrl-L
[07:39] <jdub> mirak_: there are lots of options available to you :)
[07:39] <nate> then there's hope it will get fixed
[07:39] <joem> there is no set right and wrong for where buttons go
[07:39] <JanneM> nate: but perhaps it should be open by default
[07:39] <jdub> joem: there are objective reasons for that.
[07:39] <mirak_> jdub: i just meant on this particular topic
[07:39] <Keybuk> Ctrl-L is at least consistent with both the file manager and web browser
[07:39] <mirak_> i understand both points i guees
[07:39] <joem> jdub, I agree, Im just saying that because you don't like something the hig does, doesn't really make either of you wrong
[07:40] <jdub> mirak_: the topic is quite general. which option are you talking about?
[07:40] <JanneM> nate: but the right way to go about is to determine which is right and stick with it, not paper over it with another option
[07:40] <nate> sure
[07:40] <mirak_> i was just trying to add a n00b point of view to the matter
[07:40] <nate> unless it's something that needs to be configurable at runtime
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> hrrr
[07:40] <bluefoxicy> is this a squashfs bug. . . 
[07:40] <nate> I should go hunt for the new MIME properties panel, see what I think of it
[07:40] <jdub> nate: if it *needs* to be configurable at runtime, that implies that there is no 'just works' right way to do it
[07:40] <nate> I don't think I've managed to find it yet
[07:41] <nate> jdub: Correct. Some things should be left up to the user.
[07:41] <joem> nate, good luck finding that one :)
[07:41] <JanneM> nate: absolutely. But options is like packing - you should add only what you absolutely need, not remove stuff you absolutely don't
[07:41] <Keybuk> nate: heh; that's actually quite a nice example
[07:41] <Keybuk> it's real easy to specify an alternate program to open a particular file
[07:41] <nate> hmm
[07:41] <Keybuk> but I bet you do it without thinking about it, or being able to find the "MIME Properties" dialog :p
[07:41] <nate> The way Windows does it works reasonably well for me
[07:42] <jdub> nate: i agree - things that are actually preferential should be left up to the user. but there are different definitions of that (which ends up getting quite scientific and technical, not 'but i want it!')
[07:42] <nate> Right now, I want to know if I have any support for video formats installed
[07:42] <nate> How would I do that?
[07:42] <ushooz> nate: but you are and advanced user and understand mime types. I shudder at the thought of the masses mucking up their mime types on Windows if the knew were to go poking around
[07:42] <nate> My first thought was to go to Computer | Desktop Configuration and look for a 'File Types' applet
[07:42] <Keybuk> nate: you didn't think to double click on a video file and see what happened?
[07:43] <nate> keybuk: Hell no. Why would I want to *execute* a random file without knowing what it does?
[07:43] <nate> never
[07:43] <joem> most users only want to know if they have support for something when trying to use it
[07:43] <nate> I want to do a non-dangerous operation to *ask* my system what it will do, before I attempt to do it
[07:43] <joem> nate, you can click on the file and see its mime type
[07:43] <nate> that's just common sense
[07:43] <nate> But I don't have any video files
[07:43] <joem> er right click/properties
[07:44] <JanneM> or right click/open with
[07:44] <nate> See, I want to know what support for video files I have, so I know what types I can download...
[07:44] <joem> then why do you care if you have support for them(being an average user)
[07:44] <nate> How do I do that?
[07:44] <nate> grr
[07:44] <nate> Because I want to know
[07:44] <joem> heh, its hard to think like the basic user when you aren't one
[07:44] <JanneM> you have to make totemreport it somehow I guess
[07:44] <nate> Wait
[07:44] <nate> How do I know 'totem' is my video player?
[07:44] <nate> I don't know that
[07:45] <crimsun> it says in the menu under Multimedia
[07:45] <joem> it says "totem movie player"
[07:45] <nate> I want to go browse through my list of supported file types, see what they are and what the handler programs are.
[07:45] <Se7h> it was about time to create a deb package with j2re, no ?
[07:45] <ushooz> cause it says Totem Movie Player in the menus :)
[07:45] <nate> And no, I don't want to go through a 'multimedia' applet. I want to know what is on my system.
[07:45] <Keybuk> nate: the interesting thing about your point here is that you're taking a "novice" stance from an already advanced position
[07:45] <ushooz> nate you are making some good points
[07:45] <jdub> nate: read this: http://www.gnome.org/~jrb/files/mime/
[07:45] <nate> Windows has the 'add/remove programs' screen, which is okay, but it sucks for finding out what browser plugins one has
[07:46] <Keybuk> nate: we're getting something like that for hoary
[07:46] <nate> cool
[07:46] <nate> this is what I mean about making things too task-based
[07:46] <nate> There should be provision for the user being able to think ahead a bit
[07:47] <nate> You don't want to be in the position of having to make decisions while you are in the middle of an action, or even worse, to have to trigger a large action just to change a configuration setting
[07:47] <nate> Microsoft Access is a classic case of this. You can't change the location of where you load database files from, until you have already loaded a database
[07:47] <nate> because the 'Tools/Options' menu is greyed out until you have an active db
[07:48] <Keybuk> heh, that's just bad UI
[07:48] <joem> which example does that apply to regarding gnome?
[07:48] <nate> well, yes
[07:48] <nate> it amazes me that they never fixed it
[07:48] <nate> so, um
[07:48] <nate> is there a centralised file-association viewer?
[07:48] <Keybuk> the interesting thing about your video argument is that there would be no danger of double-clicking on the file to see what it did, because you never made it explicitly executable
[07:49] <nate> grrrr
[07:49] <nate> please do not make that assumption
[07:49] <nate> say I am in an office
[07:49] <joem> plus if you click a file with no application associated to the mime type, it wont load
[07:49] <nate> I do not want to accidentally play a video
[07:49] <nate> because it might make noise, flash a pornographic image on the screen, anything
[07:49] <Keybuk> novice users don't understand the concept of file types
[07:49] <nate> !
[07:49] <nate> you gotta be kidding
[07:49] <Keybuk> they think in grand terms like "document", "video file"
[07:49] <nate> right. Those are file types.
[07:50] <crimsun> a novice user wouldn't notice that a video file has say, a film strip icon?
[07:50] <Keybuk> so if you right click on a video file, and it tells you "Open with Totem Media Player"
[07:50] <nate> I don't think I've met any user who doesn't know that files come in different types.
[07:50] <joem> the video file would have some sort of video icon
[07:50] <joem> so if a user clicks on it, they should expect a video
[07:50] <nate> Sigh
[07:50] <joem> nate, there are _lots_ of users
[07:50] <Keybuk> crimsun: actually, video files have a random frame from them as the icon :)
[07:50] <nate> Perhaps what I am saying is that it is foolish to think only of the very very very new user
[07:51] <crimsun> Keybuk: ah, ok. :)
[07:51] <nate> if you do not also think of the new-user-after-six-months
[07:51] <bluefoxicy> it's good to be in DC, Hooray!  Hooray!  With oil funds, ketchup, cute buns, that's how we got to DC 
[07:51] <joem> nate, if it works for the very...new user, it can work for anybody beyond that
[07:51] <nate> no
[07:51] <nate> that does not follow
[07:51] <JanneM> with some caveats, yes
[07:51] <joem> how so
[07:51] <jdub> nate: that's not what gnome does.
[07:51] <nate> because I am trying to do something right now
[07:51] <jdub> nate: that's not what ubuntu does.
[07:51] <nate> and you are telling me 'you don't want to do that'
[07:51] <Keybuk> nate: actually, I do think that the new MIME system needs a *little* more work ... it'd be nice if the "Open with" dialog looked more like the Run Application dialog and gave you a choice of existing installed applications
[07:51] <nate> but I do
[07:52] <joem> you want to find out if an application is associated with a mime file correct?
[07:52] <jdub> there's also a mime-manager app being worked on
[07:52] <nate> who are you to tell me what it is that I want to do with my system? I think I understand enough of my needs to know that I do in fact want to do it. And it is not a very complicated thing
[07:52] <jdub> which lets people who really really care about the innards of their mime system tweak as much as they want
[07:52] <nate> I want to know 'what software is installed on my machine, and what file types can I currently handle'
[07:52] <Keybuk> and then if you clicked on an application in Run Application, Open With (or "Installed Applications") it gave you a description of it and what kinds of files it knew it could handle
[07:52] <jdub> nate: look forward to the mime manager
[07:53] <jdub> nate: we're not saying you don't want to do it, we're saying it's an uncommon requirement
[07:53] <Keybuk> if it were a common requirement, some advanced user would have written and finished the appropriate software by now :o)
[07:53] <nate> jdub: Oh, the MIME manager isn't implemented yet? Oh good then. I thought it had already been settled and this was as good as it got.
[07:53] <Se7h> j2re-1_4_2_05-linux-i586.bin: line 363: ./install.sfx.11628: Permission denied
[07:53] <jdub> nate: remember, anyone on irc or mailing lists is representative of about 1% of the user population we're aiming for
[07:53] <jdub> nate: it is not 'in gnome'
[07:53] <nate> jdub: So in other words, GNOME is shooting for a demographic they know nothing about?
[07:53] <jdub> nate: it's just something being worked on
[07:54] <jdub> nate: no.
[07:54] <Keybuk> nate: nothing is *ever* settled :o)  new ideas come up all the time; as long as people are willing to develop (not even necessarily the original people) things get improved
[07:54] <jdub> jeez.
[07:54] <nate> instead of the one they do?
[07:54] <crimsun> nate: and what would you do say, 1 year down the road when you drop something in ~/ that doesn't register as a mime-type handler? how then? See, this problem is larger than what _can_ be handled.
[07:54] <nate> crimsun: er?
[07:54] <jdub> nate: that's a bong argument, when faced with usability experts, testing, etc., etc.
[07:55] <jdub> nate: the goal is 'greatest common factor' not 'lowest common denominator'
[07:55] <crimsun> nate: "what software is installed on my machine, and what file types can I currently handl"
[07:55] <crimsun> +e
[07:55] <jdub> don't be confused by that
[07:55] <nate> crimsun: I am trying to do a perfectly simple task that I can already do in Windows. I am asking why Gnome can't/won't let me do it.
[07:55] <nate> I am feeling like the machine is hiding things from me
[07:55] <jedix> "Hoary Hedgehog will use the X.org server instead" when is this due out?
[07:55] <nate> it is making me feel paranoid
[07:56] <crimsun> jedix: 6 months.
[07:56] <joem> it isn't hiding things, there just hasn't been an app writen to give you a nice interface for it yet
[07:56] <joem> if you wan
[07:56] <jdub> only one cure -> get off the weed
[07:56] <Keybuk> nate: it's actually a relatively uncommon advanced difficult task ... and the answer why you can't do it is because the MIME system is new in this release and the more advanced views on it aren't finished yet
[07:56] <nate> cool
[07:56] <joem> t to look around in /usr/share/applications or in some of the mime folders then go ahead
[07:56] <jdub> nate: you can diddle with the files directly, nothing is hidden
[07:56] <crimsun> jedix: there will shortly (3 months?) be pre-packages of X.Org
[07:56] <attitude> Cool automount works with my usb drive
[07:56] <nate> it's just that I am wondering why it's seen as not a priority to give GUI visibility of the underlying system, I guess.
[07:57] <Keybuk> if things really upset advanced users by their lack, the software appears pretty quickly as the pissed-off advanced user writes it themselves
[07:57] <nate> it's a philosophy I don't really understand and don't feel entirely comfortable with
[07:57] <Keybuk> that's how open source works! :)
[07:57] <joem> because again, it isn't a common task that most people need
[07:57] <jdub> nate: because to real users, the mechanics don't matter
[07:57] <Keybuk> nate: because most people don't actually care about it
[07:57] <sparkx> has anyone seen anything on enabling airport extreme cards?
[07:58] <Keybuk> I tend to care about what app loads which file when I get the wrong one (shakes his fist at screem for stealing all the mime types)
[07:58] <Keybuk> and I certainly don't classify myself as a novice user
[07:58] <nate> I guess I question that assumption
[07:58] <nate> since I seem to be a data point opposed to it
[07:58] <nate> I keep trying to do things and running into blank walls in GNOME
[07:58] <mojo> hi all
[07:59] <mojo> will Helix Player be shipped in next release??
[07:59] <ushooz> sparkx, do not believe it a driver has been written. Apples partner is not being kind in sharing specs or writing one themselves
[07:59] <joem> a quick grep of this chans log shows most of the conversation relating to mime types being this one
[07:59] <joem> so it really isn't a common concern
[07:59] <Keybuk> nate: they're not walls, they're just empty spaces
[07:59] <nate> keybuk: But they'
[07:59] <Keybuk> there's no "we'll deliberately stop users doing that" decision
[08:00] <nate> But they're things that were already there in GNOME 1.4
[08:00] <nate> that's what bugs me
[08:00] <nate> things have been taken OUT, or so it feels
[08:00] <Keybuk> yeah, uh, bringing GNOME 1.4 on your side is not a good argument place to be
[08:00] <nate> I'm just saying
[08:00] <nate> in some ways GNOME 2.x feels worse than GNOME 1.4, for the kind of tasks I am trying to do
[08:00] <Keybuk> think of 1.4 and the 2.x series as entirely different desktop environments
[08:00] <nate> sure
[08:00] <nate> the feel is entirely different
[08:01] <jdub> nate: dude, the answer is simple -> use KDE
[08:01] <Keybuk> ah, but the tasks you are trying to do are unusual
[08:01] <nate> jdub: I am trying very hard not to come to that conclusion, yes
[08:01] <joem> nate, why not
[08:01] <jdub> nate: if, for whatever reason, the level of mechanics in gnome does not satisfy you, there is another project that writes software along those lines
[08:01] <joem> it seems to do more of what you want
[08:01] <nate> Because I like, or I thought I used to like, the general philosophy of GNOME better than KDE
[08:01] <nate> which used to be 'you can do anything you want, we won't lock you into one way of doing it'
[08:02] <nate> but that seems to have changed with 2.x
[08:02] <nate> I like some of the technology of GNOME better than that of KDE
[08:02] <joem> nate, you can do anything you want doesn't mean that people are going to be fancy interfaces to every part of the system
[08:02] <nate> I disagree
[08:02] <jdub> heh
[08:02] <nate> the old philosophy of GNOME used to be that the UI would be configurable
[08:02] <jdub> so make those tools
[08:02] <jdub> and use them
[08:03] <joem> then by all means work on a tool to do it
[08:03] <nate> now it seems to be that configurability is bad
[08:03] <jdub> and give them to others who care
[08:03] <jdub> no ude
[08:03] <jdub> no dude
[08:03] <nate> joem: but will it be accepted by the community, is what I'm asking? Or will it be seen as violating the HIG?
[08:03] <hazmat> kde is a very nice project, just a horrible ui unfortunately
[08:03] <jdub> nate: http://www106.pair.com/rhp/free-software-ui.html
[08:03] <jdub> nate: read that
[08:03] <jdub> it's nothing to do with the HIG
[08:03] <Keybuk> configurability isn't bad, but if you're forcing a user to have to configure something it's worth wondering whether you got the UI wrong in the first place
[08:03] <nate> I guess I'm saying, if the consensus of GNOME is that people should not want to modify it, then maybe I would be impolite if I wrote a tool that did
[08:03] <jdub> the hig provides hints and tips and guidelines for where your pixels go
[08:04] <rexiboy> hallo
[08:04] <jdub> it doesn't define usability or goals
[08:04] <miked593> how do i make fluxbox run in ubuntu i downloaded the source and compiled it
[08:04] <joem> nate, it isn't a hig issue(the interface to the app would be), its an issue of the tool not being a common requirement
[08:04] <hazmat> Keybuk, whoa configurable does not mean its not useable out of the box
[08:04] <Keybuk> (if you think about that, you'll realise that what it actually *means* is that both users shouldn't need to configure something -- not just that the option should be the other way round)
[08:04] <joem> and the people writing such tools feel there time is better spent on other things. Though as mentioned, somebody is working on a mime tool
[08:04] <rexiboy> anyone got gdesklet running?
[08:05] <Keybuk> hazmat: <Keybuk> configurability isn't bad
[08:05] <amroc> im trying this for a sec, if i leave i give up for now
[08:05] <miked593> and how do i get ubuntu to start up in runlevel 3
[08:05] <amroc> i still have the box, (i re-installed)
[08:05] <Keybuk> miked593: edit /etc/inittab ... why do you want to?
[08:06] <amroc> lets see how long it takes for me to lose the ability to do any thing
[08:06] <miked593> i want fluxbox to work im confused
[08:06] <nate> so, um
[08:06] <nate> where is the discussion on these kind of issues happening?
[08:06] <Keybuk> miked593: there is no difference between runlevels 2, 3 and 4 in Ubuntu
[08:06] <joem> miked593, can you run fluxbox --replace
[08:06] <miked593> ok
[08:06] <Keybuk> miked593: you installed fluxbox and you want to use it *instead* of GNOME, or just instead of metacity?
[08:06] <miked593> instead of gnome
[08:07] <Keybuk> nate: which kind?
[08:07] <joem> ah
[08:07] <nate> keybuk: On which things should be / should not be in the default configuration of the UI
[08:07] <amroc> wow, i have kept connectivity for a while now
[08:07] <Keybuk> miked593: put "fluxbox" in a file in your home directory called ".xinitrc"
[08:07] <hazmat> how do you get more than 4 virtual desktops?
[08:07] <Keybuk> (probably "exec fluxbox" to be fair)
[08:07] <miked593> ok
[08:07] <Keybuk> hazmat: right-click the pager, Preferences, and change the number of desktops)
[08:07] <amroc> I THINK I FIXED IT!
[08:08] <amroc> i still get the occasional lil line, but that is fine aslong as i can stay on the comp
[08:08] <hazmat> Keybuk, doesn't affect anything unfortunately
[08:08] <Keybuk> nate: there isn't any particular ongoing discussion, it's something everying decides for themselves
[08:08] <miked593> cool i'll give that a try thanks
[08:08] <rexiboy> anyone got gdesklet running?
[08:08] <Keybuk> hazmat: you're running metacity?
[08:08] <hazmat> ie. decreaseing or increasing the number does not change the number of desktops
[08:08] <hazmat> yes
[08:08] <Skif> grr
[08:09] <nate> hmm
[08:09] <rexiboy> where can i get a list for my source?
[08:09] <Keybuk> that's odd, try "metacity-message --restart" and see if it works after your windows stop dancing :)
[08:09] <nate> Presumably, though, there's a general GNOME consensus, a Debian consensus, and a Ubuntu consensus, at least
[08:10] <hazmat> Keybuk, yup that did it, thanks
[08:10] <Keybuk> jdub: *sigh* that's yet another example of the gconf voodoo going astray then
[08:10] <Keybuk> hazmat: out of interest, have you done an upgrade recently and not logged out/rebooted since ?
[08:10] <hazmat> sure
[08:11] <nate> so, um
[08:11] <wm_eddie> Any python people around?
[08:11] <hazmat> wm_eddie, yes
[08:11] <nate> where *does* one find the MIME database in GNOME, since I'll have to go hack text files to find out what I'm running?
[08:11] <wm_eddie> Does the default ubuntu install have xml.dom?
[08:11] <hazmat> nate, i went looking for stuff like that... news.gmane.org search for gnome lists
[08:12] <nate> or is it somewhere in gconf?
[08:12] <hazmat> wm_eddie, yes
[08:12] <joem> http://lists.gnome.org/archives/
[08:12] <Keybuk> nate: /usr/share/applications ... the .desktop files of installed applications say what MIME types they can support
[08:12] <joem> there are all the gnome lists
[08:12] <wm_eddie> ok....
[08:12] <miked593> i added "exec fluxbox" to .xinitrc and rebooted and im still in gnome
[08:12] <hazmat> wm_eddie, its got a kitchensink of python modules
[08:12] <wm_eddie> Now I'm really confused...
[08:12] <Keybuk> nate: read the freedesktop.org MIME spec
[08:12] <wm_eddie> eddie@Praia:~/Projects/Python/pyfolder $ pydoc xml
[08:12] <wm_eddie> problem in ./xml.pyc - ImportError: No module named dom
[08:12] <wm_eddie> I keep getting that error.
[08:12] <Keybuk> wm_eddie: got python-xml installed ?
[08:12] <wm_eddie> yup.
[08:12] <hazmat> wm_eddie works for me
[08:12] <Keybuk> nate: http://www.freedesktop.org/Standards/mime-actions-spec
[08:13] <nate> keybuk: thanks
[08:13] <hazmat> wm_eddie, what happens when you do it from interpreter .. ie from xml import dom
[08:13] <wm_eddie> apt-get install python-xml says it's already installed.
[08:13] <wm_eddie> hazmat: same error, no module named dom
[08:13] <Keybuk> wm_eddie: uhhhh... that says ./xml.pyc
[08:13] <Keybuk> try it from a different directory
[08:13] <hazmat> wm_eddie, what does import xml ; print xml.__version__ say 
[08:13] <wm_eddie> ahh...
[08:13] <hazmat> oh yeah
[08:14] <wm_eddie> ok I didn't know that...
[08:14] <miked593> does anyone know how i can get fluxbox to run
[08:14] <nate> aha, so it's all done in the .desktop files?
[08:14] <hazmat> yeah you don't want to be in that directory you can use pydoc from anywhere.. if you do it in the local directory from the module it will get confused
[08:14] <Keybuk> miked593: gah, my bad, .xsession not .xinitrc -- sorry
[08:14] <Keybuk> (just copy or symlink the file)
[08:14] <joem> nate, application association is done via the desktop files yea
[08:14] <nate> hmm
[08:14] <hazmat> esp. with the xml module which does a bit of monkey patching to install the python-xml package into the same package namesapce
[08:14] <miked593> oh ok cool
[08:14] <nate> where do .desktops for the system live?
[08:14] <Keybuk> nate: /usr/share/applications
[08:15] <nate> cool
[08:15] <Keybuk> your customisations are in ~/.local/share/applications
[08:15] <nate> .local? not .gnome or .gnome2?
[08:15] <Keybuk> it's a freedesktop.org specification
[08:16] <Keybuk> it means the behaviour should be shared between all desktop environments, not just GNOME
[08:16] <nate> hmm
[08:16] <nate> okay, here's a classic problem
[08:16] <nate> I'm looking at the applications folder
[08:16] <Keybuk> if you wanted to write a GNOME-specific application, look at the GnomeVFS MIME Registry documentation
[08:16] <nate> now I want to open the .desktop file
[08:16] <nate> I guess I can't do that from the GUI at all
[08:16] <Keybuk> nate: right-click, Open With, choose something like gedit
[08:17] <joem> right click open with gedit
[08:17] <joem> damn, to slow tonight
[08:17] <nate> It doesn't show Open With on the context menu
[08:17] <Keybuk> rofl
[08:17] <nate> that's what's confusing me
[08:17] <Keybuk> and you've discovered a nice bug
[08:17] <nate> oh, that is a bug?
[08:17] <nate> oh good
[08:17] <nate> I wasn't sure if it was a feature or not
[08:17] <Keybuk> open gedit from the applications menu, and drag the files on to them
[08:18] <nate> hmm, weird
[08:18] <nate> On the 'Properties' 'Open With' tab it clearly shows Text Editor
[08:18] <Keybuk> .desktop files are launchers, so they're special
[08:18] <nate> yeah, I figured
[08:18] <nate> still... you'd think there could be a default action, plus alternate actions
[08:18] <nate> Launch and Edit
[08:19] <Keybuk> that's the bug
[08:19] <Keybuk> or possibly just an annoying anti-feature
[08:19] <Keybuk> normally there are
[08:19] <nate> yay, drag-n-drop works
[08:19] <nate> I hardly ever use it
[08:19] <Keybuk> (you can have as many associations as you like, the default appears at the top, the rest below it)
[08:19] <nate> mmm
[08:19] <nate> that's nice
[08:21] <nate> so I take it there is no such thing as a central MIME database in GNOME?
[08:21] <nate> just the sum of all .desktop files?
[08:22] <Skif> um, I just tried to file a bug on kernel-image-2.6.8.1-686, and it came up with "Assign To:" undefined.
[08:22] <nate> or is there somewhere else I would have to read as well to find out what filetypes my system currently supports?
[08:22] <Skif> what should I put there?
[08:22] <joem> there are different parts of the whole mime thing, .desktop files only tell the system what applications are associated with what mime types
[08:22] <nate> yeah, that's what I figured
[08:22] <joem> /usr/share/mime
[08:22] <Skif> In all fairness, I don't know that it's a kernel bug, but it's the best guess I have now. :(
[08:23] <Keybuk> nate: you'll definitely have more luck reading the GnomeVFS API docs
[08:23] <Keybuk> it does the hard work for you
[08:24] <Keybuk> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gnome-vfs-2.0/mime-registry.html
[08:24] <nate> hmm
[08:24] <nate> so the MIME XML files tell me what types exist, and the .desktops tell me what apps open them...
[08:25] <pixelmonkey> anyone here getting annoyed by how vim, for some reason, hits enter automatically after each word when entering c-style comments?
[08:26] <Skif> can anybody help me with what address to put in the "assign to" field for kernel-image-2.6.8.1-686?
[08:26] <Keybuk> Skif: leave it blank, it'll do it for you?
[08:26] <Skif> keybuk: okay; it came up with "undefined" by default, I figured it was a bugzilla bug :-\
[08:27] <Keybuk> hmm... could be
[08:28] <Keybuk> heh, they're all coming up undefined today
[08:28] <Skif> fun!
[08:28] <Skif> so this is part of your "get people into the community" deal, right?  You can't file 'em in bugzilla, so we all have to come on IRC? :)
[08:29] <nate> hey, if it works...
[08:30] <hazmat> nate, you might be interested http://www.goneme.org/index_goals.html
[08:33] <jdub> haha
[08:33] <Keybuk> ahh, goneme
[08:33] <joem> oh dear
[08:34] <Lathiat> heh
[08:34] <hazmat> i disagree with about half the goals stated, but there are some valid points imo
[08:34] <Keybuk> the funny thing is half of those are upstream goals too
[08:35] <Lathiat> "It makes no difference what usability studies say about new users...."
[08:35] <Lathiat> so naive
[08:35] <rexiboy> can someone point me in the right direction for source list?
[08:35] <Keybuk> rexiboy: what kind of source list?
[08:35] <rexiboy> I want gdesklet and can't find it on mine
[08:35] <rexiboy> ubuntu64
[08:36] <rexiboy> anyone got gdesklet running?
[08:36] <Keybuk> rexiboy: Computer -> System Configuration -> Synaptic Package Manager ... Settings -> Repositories ... click the "warty" distribution and make sure the "universe" section is listed
[08:36] <rexiboy> cheers
[08:36] <Keybuk> if not, add it to the list of them
[08:37] <Keybuk> ROFL
[08:37] <Keybuk> "The GNOME Project has become a meritocracy. We believe the advantages gained by such a structure are far outweighed by the complete lack of balance. It probably is the best way to develop a business desktop, but established users are left out."
[08:37] <Lathiat> tseng: Heh, as his blog says, tomboy didnt crash on the second start :)
[08:37] <Lathiat> fqefqwf
[08:41] <hazmat> i'm just curious are there folks who prefer spatial nautilus?
[08:41] <joem> I do
[08:41] <Lathiat> as do i
[08:42] <daniels> if everyone hated it, then it probably wouldn't be the default
[08:42] <joem> I am not a huge fan of new windows, but have one click opening, and browse with the middle button most of the time
[08:42] <Keybuk> hazmat: there was a wonderful moment at GUADEC this year
[08:42] <nate> heh, Goneme
[08:42] <nate> I've read that
[08:43] <Keybuk> campd ran out of steam in his talk, and opened up to the room and asked if there were any questions?
[08:43] <Keybuk> someone heckled "does anybody actually like spatial nautilus?"
[08:43] <nate> I agree with some of his ideas, but Worst. Project name. Ever.
[08:43] <Keybuk> a vote was taken
[08:43] <Keybuk> most of the hall put their hands up and admitted they preferred it now
[08:43] <nate> I don't mind spatial Nautilus, since I can bypass it
[08:43] <hazmat> interesting
[08:44] <nate> I just wish 'spatial mode' and 'browse mode' were the same, and the various widgets were configurable
[08:44] <nate> I don't like having two separate modes
[08:44] <Keybuk> nate: hmm?  they are roughly?
[08:44] <joem> Keybuk, yea, thats a good point. I never really felt that nautilus was useable until 2.6
[08:44] <Lathiat> ou can bypass spatial mode
[08:45] <Lathiat> its an option
[08:45] <joem> or rather, just never used it
[08:45] <Lathiat> Desktop Preferences -> File Management -> Behavior -> Always Open in Browser Window
[08:45] <nate> Keybuk: Like Windows Explorer. It does spatial, and it does browsing, or it can do a kind of mix of both. You can customise it on a per-folder basis. That's pretty much nirvana for me.
[08:45] <Keybuk> I've tended to find that everyone really reacts badly to spatial mode when it first comes along, and then after a while shyly admits they find nautilus more useful now and that maybe they overreacted a little
[08:45] <Keybuk> nate: Windows Explorer *doesn't* do spatial
[08:45] <Keybuk> never has
[08:45] <nate> People keep saying that
[08:45] <dewey> allright it worked alien installed an rpm kewl :)
[08:46] <joem> because its true
[08:46] <nate> ...
[08:46] <Lathiat> I'm *positive* it did that in win95...
[08:46] <Keybuk> spaital is a very specific thing, it isn't just "open new windows"
[08:46] <nate> exactly
[08:46] <nate> that's what it always did
[08:46] <Lathiat> well not "spatial" mode as such, yeh
[08:46] <nate> I'm sure it remembers window size and position for each folder
[08:46] <joem> Lathiat, in 95 it just opened browser mode in new windows..not exactly spatial
[08:46] <nate> it's just not a terribly useful mode to use it in
[08:46] <joem> from what I remember anyways
[08:46] <Keybuk> nate: you could open the same folder twice
[08:46] <nate> so most people after a few moments figure out how to turn on browser view, and then are happy
[08:47] <Keybuk> it also only remembered the positions of about 10 folders
[08:47] <Keybuk> and didn't remember things like how far down them you scrolled
[08:47] <nate> thing is, I don't actually *want* my file manager remembering the position of my windows
[08:47] <nate> that's like the Mac interface again
[08:47] <nate> I don't like that
[08:47] <nate> I spend far too much time manually resizing and dragging windows each time I want to do something different with them
[08:47] <Keybuk> nate: Edit -> Preferences; Behaviour tab, "Always open in browser windows"
[08:48] <jdub> yeah, no point letting the computer provide ergonimic benefits for you
[08:48] <nate> jdub: it's not a benefit to me, is what I'm saying
[08:48] <Keybuk> spatial harnesses kinaesthetic memory
[08:48] <nate> it's a disbenefit
[08:48] <Keybuk> the same bit of you memory that remembers emacs keystrokes
[08:48] <nate> so people keep saying
[08:48] <nate> and I don't understand why, because it's not true
[08:48] <Keybuk> you open a folder, and your eyes automatically move to where it belongs
[08:48] <attitude> question. Is there a way I can play quicktime movies in ubuntu
[08:48] <nate> I usually open all my windows fullscreen
[08:48] <joem> attitude, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats?action=highlight&value=w32
[08:49] <Keybuk> then browse mode is for you
[08:49] <nate> yes, but there's a number of things it does that I find ugly
[08:49] <Keybuk> which?
[08:49] <jdub> nate: er, it is true, but you may have a different preference.
[08:49] <nate> and I would rather have just one mode that could be customise
[08:49] <nate> like the side pane
[08:49] <joem> you can turn that off
[08:49] <nate> and like the buttons being huge
[08:49] <rexiboy> gnome question: how do i stop these annoying windows everytime i open a folder? just want it to open in the same folder...
[08:49] <Keybuk> browse and spatial mode *can't* be duality ... the window would have to jump and dance around the screen as you used it
[08:49] <Keybuk> it would be UI hell
[08:50] <Keybuk> rexiboy: Edit -> Preferences; Behaviour tab, "Always open in browser windows"
[08:50] <nate> I would like the button bar to be minimisable, and even possibly hidable
[08:50] <rexiboy> thanks :)
[08:50] <nate> then I could have the equivalent of 'open in same window' which I find quite a natural browsing style
[08:51] <rexiboy> life is better!
[08:51] <nate> hehe
[08:51] <nate> *cough*
[08:51] <joem> the button bar doesn't seem very large to me
[08:51] <joem> but I don't have it show text, which makes it quite a bit smaller
[08:51] <nate> hmm
[08:51] <nate> let me try that then
[08:51] <Keybuk> nate: gconf, /apps/nautilus/preferences ... turn off start_with_*
[08:52] <SuperL4g> tseng: yo
[08:53] <nate> hmm
[08:53] <nate> how do I turn off text on toolbar?
[08:54] <nate> can't seem to find it in gconf
[08:54] <joem> computer-desktop prefs-toolbar
[08:54] <Keybuk> nate: Computer -> Desktop Preferences -> Menus and Toolbars
[08:54] <nate> !
[08:55] <nate> why isn't that in Preferences for a Nautilus window?
[08:55] <Keybuk> because it's a desktop-wide preference
[08:55] <nate> it's a Nautilus pref isn't it?
[08:55] <joem> it is a global toolbars pref
[08:55] <nate> I don't want to do it for all toolbars
[08:55] <nate> just for Nautilus
[08:55] <Keybuk> ah
[08:55] <Keybuk> there's a secret magic way to customise each app to the way you like it
[08:55] <nate> yes
[08:55] <Keybuk> so you can change things like that
[08:55] <SuperL4g> is there only one apt mirror for Ubuntu, or can I add more than one to sources.list?
[08:56] <nate> oh good. How?
[08:56] <Keybuk> and change the defaults, and the way it works
[08:56] <Keybuk> apt-get source nautilus
[08:56] <nate> nice
[08:56] <joem> :)
[08:56] <Keybuk> because no UI is going to be any easier to use
[08:56] <nate> guess I don't need this Ubuntu thing anymore. :)
[08:56] <nate> Keybuk: er. Windows' UI is easier. :)
[08:56] <Keybuk> *chokes on his tea*
[08:56] <nate> this is why I gripe. Because these problems have been fixed elsewhere.
[08:56] <nate> so they can't be *that* hard
[08:57] <nate> I mean, even Microsoft can do it
[08:57] <Keybuk> one of the biggest gripes most people have about Windows is you have to do things like customise the toolbar appearance for *every*single*app* in a different dialog
[08:57] <joem> nate, more people see this as the right thing to do then wrong
[08:57] <nate> so, have a global setting and a per-app setting, and allow one to override the other. What's wrong with that?
[08:57] <Keybuk> dude, KDE, seriously
[08:57] <nate> man
[08:57] <Keybuk> they have a search box on their preferences dialog
[08:57] <nate> I so don't want to go there
[08:57] <joem> why not
[08:57] <nate> but...
[08:58] <joem> they have lots of options that you are looking for
[08:58] <nate> because I thought GNOME's component framework was more open-ended
[08:58] <nate> and that GNOME would be the desktop that would win
[08:58] <nate> but...
[08:58] <Keybuk> so you make one app work differently from the rest ... and that's *good* ?!
[08:58] <nate> yes
[08:58] <Keybuk> it's not about winning
[08:58] <nate> I hope not
[08:59] <nate> as long as freedesktop.org is working, which it seems to be, the two will get closer together
[08:59] <Keybuk> GNOME isn't about beating KDE, it's just about writing a desktop environment some people might like
[08:59] <Keybuk> and those that don't like it can use the other desktop environments that are more suited to their tastes
[08:59] <Keybuk> do one thing, and do it well
[08:59] <Keybuk> not do everything, just to get that one extra user
[08:59] <nate> Thing is, I originally went with GNOME over KDE not because it looked better - KDE looked and felt better - but because I thought GNOME was going about things in a more modular, configurable way
[09:00] <Keybuk> I get asked a huge amount why I don't make it easier in Debian for people to build the system from source "like Gentoo"
[09:00] <nate> wereas KDE had that huge monolithic Qt library that everything hung off of
[09:00] <Keybuk> my reply is that if people want to build their system from source, they should *use* Gentoo
[09:00] <Lathiat> heh
[09:00] <nate> mmm
[09:00] <Keybuk> hrm, Qt is to KDE as GTK+ is to GNOME
[09:00] <nate> right
[09:00] <Keybuk> it's just the X toolkit underneath
[09:00] <nate> only, Qt has all sorts of other stuff it int
[09:00] <SuperL4g> I use Gentoo.  But I get exasperated at times.
[09:00] <joem> not quite..
[09:00] <nate> like database connectors and things
[09:00] <SuperL4g> Ubuntu ROCKS.
[09:00] <SuperL4g> as does Gentoo.
[09:00] <Lathiat> Keybuk: mostly
[09:01] <SuperL4g> each in their own place :)
[09:01] <joem> qt is to kde as gtk glib etc... are to gnome
[09:01] <nate> I liked the way GNOME split those out into separate libraries which could be reused elsewhere
[09:01] <Lathiat> its great having glib separate from the graphcis stuff
[09:01] <nate> yeah
[09:01] <nate> GObject is very cool
[09:01] <Keybuk> I think that's more a side-effect of GTK+ existing before GNOME, than anything else
[09:01] <joefal> when i try to compile this program i get this error
[09:01] <joefal> #include <GL/gl.h>
[09:01] <joefal> #include <GL/glu.h>
[09:01] <joefal> #include "aux.h"
[09:01] <joefal> void display (void)
[09:02] <joefal> {
[09:02] <joefal>     glClear(GL_COLOR_BUFFER_BIT);
[09:02] <Keybuk> there's certainly a move at the moment to kill libgnomeui and libgnome and fold that functionality into GTK+ where it belonged in the first place, for eaxmple
[09:02] <joefal>     glColor3f (1.0, 1.0, 1.0);
[09:02] <joefal>     glLoadIdentity ();             /* clear the matrix */
[09:02] <joem> ah
[09:02] <joefal>     glTranslatef (0.0, 0.0, -5.0); /* viewing transformation */
[09:02] <joefal>     glScalef (1.0, 2.0, 1.0);      /* modeling transformation */
[09:02] <joefal>     auxWireCube(1.0);    /*  draw the cube */
[09:02] <Keybuk> (but not things like database stuff, which don't belong there
[09:02] <joefal>     glFlush();
[09:02] <joefal> }
[09:02] <joem> joefal, not the place
[09:02] <joefal> void myinit (void) 
[09:02] <joefal> {
[09:02] <joefal>     glShadeModel (GL_FLAT);
[09:02] <nate> hmm
[09:02] <joefal> }
[09:02] <Lathiat> thank keybyk
[09:02] <nate> what the
[09:04] <jedix> hrm, seems I can't do 1280x1024 in this distro.. that sucks.
[09:04] <nate> that's a distro limitation?
[09:04] <joem> no
[09:04] <jedix> no
[09:04] <daniels> edit /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, remove the 'HorizSync' and 'VertSync' lines from the Monitor section
[09:05] <jedix> I fixed them to what they are supposed to be..
[09:05] <jedix> didn't remove them.
[09:05] <daniels> removing them is the better thing to do, since the real values can be probed anyway
[09:06] <jedix> erm, ok.
[09:06] <Keybuk> daniels: is there any particular reason they're there if they can be probed ?
[09:14] <daniels> Keybuk: some monitors need them there, and to be calculated from the resolution; apparently.  whether or not they should be there is a matter of contention over which I've deferred.
[09:16] <rublind> Succesful Ubuntu installation just completed, but I have a few questions.
[09:16] <Keybuk> rublind: what are your few questions?
[09:17] <rublind> Well, there is no root user.
[09:17] <rublind> So, how does everything work without a root?
[09:17] <joem> sudo
[09:17] <joem> the user created at install is given full sudo privs
[09:17] <rublind> ... pseudo-root?
[09:18] <rublind> ... okay, so I never nead root then.
[09:18] <rublind> su should do nothing?
[09:18] <joem> man sudo if curious 
[09:18] <rublind> Alright.
[09:18] <Keybuk> rublind: sudo is like su, but instead of asking you for root's password it asks you for yours
[09:18] <rublind> Is there a command to launch a terminal?
[09:18] <Keybuk> that way the root user's password is locked
[09:18] <Keybuk> rublind: Applications -> System Tools -> Terminal
[09:18] <rublind> I know that.
[09:18] <rublind> But I want a short-cut.
[09:18] <joem> gnome-terminal?
[09:18] <rublind> Yeah...
[09:19] <nate> :reads the GoneME forums
[09:19] <nate> hmm, these guys have some good ideas and some really wacked-out ones
[09:19] <joem> you can bind a key to a launcher if that is the sort of short cut you are looking for
[09:19] <Keybuk> rublind: define short-cut ... you can open the menu and drag that icon and put it on your desktop or panel
[09:19] <rublind> ... how?
[09:20] <Keybuk> nate: which did you like?
[09:20] <jedix> is there a package source that has mozilla thunderbird?
[09:21] <Keybuk> jedix: that's in main!
[09:21] <jedix> under www?
[09:21] <Keybuk> mozilla-thunderbird
[09:21] <Keybuk> under mail, shockingly :p
[09:22] <rublind> Terminal isn't in the list for "Add to panel"
[09:22] <jedix> hehe, so it is.
[09:22] <jedix> thanks.
[09:22] <Keybuk> rublind: find it in the Applications menu, then click the right mouse button
[09:22] <rublind> Okay.
[09:22] <Keybuk> there's an "Add launcher to panel" option
[09:22] <rublind> ^_^ Thanks.
[09:22] <rublind> I am new to linux, so excuse the stupid questions.
[09:22] <rublind> (and to ubuntu)
[09:22] <Skif> or you can click on "Application Launcher" from the "Add to Panel" dialog
[09:23] <nate> The modified file open dialog, slimming down Nautilus, a control center, menus for applications always giving the name of the program (I think GNOME already has that as a guideline tho)
[09:23] <joem> heh, the forums seem to be a bit thin under the "actual development section"
[09:23] <rublind> Uh, if I want to add my windows hard drive to the filesystem, how would I go about that?
[09:23] <nate> Button order I don't care about, gconf I think is pretty cool as is, khtml I don't see the point (I like Firefox), removing Bonobo completely misses the point of what a component framework is
[09:23] <Keybuk> nate: heh, all of those are upstream issues too :o)
[09:23] <nate> really? Neat
[09:24] <Keybuk> joem: but they have a *logo* now ... code is surely a short way away
[09:24] <Keybuk> nate: bonobo is kinda deprecated
[09:24] <joem> :)
[09:24] <nate> I was wondering about taht
[09:24] <Keybuk> at least, for certain things
[09:24] <rublind> Anyone?
[09:24] <joem> least they have ther priorities in the right place
[09:24] <nate> what's likely to replace it?
[09:25] <nate> .NET?
[09:25] <Keybuk> nate: dbus for activation, general message-passing and stuff
[09:25] <nate> er, Mono?
[09:25] <nate> ah, right
[09:25] <Keybuk> it's a lot lighter-weight, and more open
[09:25] <nate> I keep seeing DBUS around
[09:25] <Keybuk> bonobo remains a component and embedding model
[09:25] <nate> are there many things that use Bonobo, other than Nautilus and the panel?
[09:25] <Keybuk> evolution, gnumeric, etc.
[09:26] <nate> I generally don't like it when Nautilus tries to use one of its own viewers, I prefer to open files in a real application
[09:26] <Keybuk> evolution is a good example of how *not* to use bonobo
[09:26] <nate> really? Hmm.
[09:26] <nate> Evolution I like
[09:26] <nate> what did they do wrong?
[09:26] <jedix> lol
[09:26] <Keybuk> nate: the window is a bonobo shell, when you open things in the window, they're bonobo components
[09:26] <jedix> so as soon as I click on a message, thunderbird crashes
[09:26] <Keybuk> there's no actual reason to do that
[09:27] <nate> hmm
[09:27] <nate> I kind of thought that Evolution, even more than Gnumeric, was the flagship Bonobo app, being as it was Miguel's baby and all
[09:27] <Keybuk> Miguel saw a new shiny thing
[09:27] <nate> hee
[09:27] <nate> that's what it looked like to me
[09:28] <Keybuk> Evo was never really miguel's baby either
[09:28] <nate> Oh? Interesting.
[09:28] <joem> lots of people put hard work into evo
[09:29] <Keybuk> if you took all the bonobo out of evo, it would still look and act the same
[09:29] <nate> interesting
[09:30] <Keybuk> btw, on the previous ... uh, which nautilus viewer are you thinking of? :p
[09:30] <rublind> How do I add something to the  "Computer" Menu
[09:30] <Keybuk> rublind: sadly you can't, we want to do something cool for Hoary though
[09:30] <nate> heh heh
[09:30] <nate> quote: 
[09:31] <nate> | Project GoneAM-ME is the first attempt to try moving the GoneME Desktop into a new direction.
[09:31] <rublind> Hoary?
[09:31] <nate> forking of forking, oh my
[09:31] <Mithrandir> rublind: the next release of ubuntu
[09:31] <Keybuk> rublind: Ubuntu 5.04 ... in about 6 months time, the next release after 4.10
[09:31] <rublind> Ah, cool.
[09:31] <rublind> Can you add folders to / ?
[09:31] <Keybuk> nate: nautilus viewers were exocised in the last release
[09:31] <nate> nice
[09:32] <rublind> Are you the Developers of ubuntu?
[09:32] <nate> they were a good idea but they never really worked
[09:32] <Mithrandir> rublind: both Keybuk and I are among the ubuntu developers, yes.
[09:32] <rublind> Oh, cool.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> there are more in here, but not active atm, it seems.
[09:32] <rublind> If I want to mount my windows drive to a folder, do I have to do it everytime, or just once?
[09:32] <Keybuk> rublind: if you edit /etc/fstab and put the appropriate runes in there, it will come up all the time
[09:33] <Keybuk> (and yes, it would be nice if this were easier :p)
[09:33] <rublind> Okay.
[09:33] <rublind> I have a problem. ^_^
[09:33] <rublind> mount -t ntfs /dev/hd0 returns: "mount: only root can do that"
[09:33] <Skif> try 'sudo mount ...'
[09:33] <Keybuk> sudo mount -t...
[09:33] <rublind> Okay.
[09:34] <daniels> Mithrandir: yeah, 'hoary' seems to be the answer to absolutely everything.  applications bong plus gnome 2.10 plus mad phat startup plus x.org ... oh my.
[09:35] <rublind> Now it's bothering me about permissions.
[09:35] <daniels> plus utf-8, plus docs, plus ...
[09:35] <rublind> I should chown -R  right?
[09:36] <daniels> -o uid=1000,gid=1000 might be useful
[09:36] <rublind> Okay, thank you.
[09:36] <daniels> (to mount, not chown)
[09:36] <rublind> Oh.
[09:36] <rublind> Drat.
[09:36] <rublind> :P
[09:36] <nate> anyone know what's going to be in Gnome 2.10/
[09:36] <nate> ?
[09:36] <rublind> Well, who wants to help me add this to the /etc/fstab ?
[09:37] <Keybuk> daniels: heh, the great thing is you can guess what's in (e.g.) GNOME 2.10 and wave it off as a "hoary" thing :p
[09:37] <nate> of course
[09:37] <daniels> Keybuk: heh :)
[09:37] <nate> that's the great advantage of synchronising release schedules. :)
[09:37] <Keybuk> nate: not yet, we'll find out over the next month or two
[09:37] <nate> I for one welcome the new holographic neural interface plugin for Nautilus
[09:37] <daniels> wacky effects probably involving transparency and also likely involving scaling/moving of windows by a compmgr and doing the equivalent input redirection? hoary!
[09:37] <joem> nate, http://gnome.org/start/2.9/ nothing there yet, but it will be updated as modules/changes are prposed
[09:38] <Keybuk> daniels: integration of the GTK+ FileSelector bookmarks list and the Nautilus Places list is a probably 2.10 thing ... and we can steal that for the Computer menu; magic \o/ hoary thing <g>
[09:38] <daniels> (xevie will be in, so xcompmgr will be able to transform windows, as long as it redirects the input properly; you can have them on an angle or some random bong if you like)
[09:38] <nate> xevie?
[09:38] <daniels> Keybuk: world peace? hoary!
[09:38] <daniels> nate: x event interception extension
[09:38] <Keybuk> naked ladies? hoar..oh, wait
[09:38] <daniels> http://freedesktop.org/~stukreit/xevie.html
[09:38] <nate> there are naked ladies on my desktop already
[09:39] <joem> heh, that one made it in time for warty
[09:39] <joem> gotta have priorities
[09:39] <nate> hmm, so that's for accessibility
[09:40] <nate> how's KDE's accessability?
[09:53] <jdub> tseng: rocking stuff with the tomboy package, btw
[09:53] <jdub> tseng: dh_netdeps -> woo
[09:54] <jdub> tseng: got a 0.2.2 package on the way?
[09:58] <rexiboy> hey guys, can n1 tell me how to get firewire working with ubuntu?
[09:58] <Keybuk> jdub: so, why can't I drag contacts into notes -- and notes onto calendar events and tasks, etc.
[09:59] <rexiboy> trying to access my cam corder
[10:00] <joem> Keybuk, not implemented yet(if you are talking about tomboy)
[10:01] <rexiboy> I can't belive it but gdesklets actually works!
[10:01] <Keybuk> joem: yeah :)  I'm wishlisting
[10:07] <joolz> hm, weird. I have the Gaim system tray plugin running, but nothing appears in the system tray
[10:09] <joem> sure you have the systray?
[10:09] <joolz> uhm wait...
[10:09] <joolz> yes, i've deleted it :(
[10:09] <joolz> any way to get it back?
[10:09] <joem> heh
[10:09] <Keybuk> joolz: Add to Panel
[10:10] <joem> right click -> add to panel
[10:10] <attitude> I had my nvidia drivers working with the i386 kernel and then i went to the k7 kernel and they do not work anyone know how to fix this?
[10:10] <ElBast> rexiboy: which version of gdesklets are you using?
[10:10] <joem> notification area its called
[10:10] <joolz> ah, right! thanks a lot!
[10:10] <joem> attitude, did you reinstall the drivers after switching kernels?
[10:10] <andril> hello all
[10:10] <miqorz> If I ever install linux again. Ubuntu will prolly be the distro.
[10:10] <miqorz> =)
[10:11] <attitude> joem: apt-get install nvidia-kernel?
[10:11] <joem> yea
[10:11] <attitude> joem: yeah I did and still the same thing
[10:12] <rublind> Auto-completion is in ubuntu, right (where you press tab to finish file name)
[10:12] <miqorz> All shells have that I think..
[10:12] <SuperL4g> rublind: that's a function of Bash.
[10:12] <rublind> Hm, then it's not working.
[10:12] <miqorz> SuperL4g, zsh has it too =)
[10:13] <SuperL4g> yep
[10:13] <attitude> miqorz: not all but most of the big ones
[10:13] <miqorz> attitude, More often than not shell have it
[10:13] <miqorz> =)
[10:13] <attitude> brb
[10:13] <joolz> strange, my autocpmplete works too, but in /etc/bash.bashrc it's commented out
[10:13] <rexiboy> ElBast, 2.6.1
[10:14] <rexiboy> ElBast, this is one of the few times that gdesklets is working!
[10:14] <joolz> seems my ~/.bash_profile isn't read
[10:14] <joolz> is this normal for gnome?
[10:14] <ElBast> rexiboy: is that the one in ubuntu universe? it flat out refuses to work for me
[10:15] <Skif> joolz, you want ~/.bashrc
[10:15] <miqorz> i use openbox3
[10:15] <Skif> .bash_profile is only read for login shells
[10:15] <SuperL4g> miqorz: on Ubuntu?
[10:15] <rexiboy> ElBast, yes, did you install it
[10:15] <miqorz> SuperL4g, I use freebsd. http://left-foot.org/Images/ss.png
[10:15] <miqorz> =p
[10:15] <joolz> Skif, yes I know. Thats something of gnome then, not reading the profile
[10:15] <ElBast> rexiboy: yeah, but whenever i run it, it just sits there doing nothing for a while in the task bar then stops
[10:16] <Skif> joolz: yeah, because you've already logged in, via gdm, so starting a terminal isn't a login, see?
[10:16] <joem> ooh I am in that screenshot
[10:16] <miqorz> i love my desktop =)
[10:16] <joem> I feel like a celeb
[10:17] <miqorz> joem, you are?
[10:17] <joolz> Skif, i know. Im just used to fvwm. There i did my settings + login in runlever 3 and did a startx from bash_profile
[10:17] <rexiboy> ElBast, so you started gdesklets first and than went to /usr/share/gdesklets/Display right click on starterbar.display open with gdesklets?
[10:17] <joem> heh yea, I am leaving an irc chan
[10:17] <miqorz> Oh!
[10:17] <miqorz> Now I see.
[10:17] <miqorz> =)
[10:17] <rublind> My mouse has extra buttons (some for back and forward in browsers), is there a way to use them?
[10:18] <joolz> rublind, yes, just push them ;-)
[10:18] <Skif> jools: pretty much all *dm variants work that way
[10:18] <ElBast> rexiboy: ah, no... i've only started it. let me try that and see how i go :
[10:18] <Skif> er, joolz, that was
[10:18] <joolz> Skif, ok, thanks
[10:18] <Skif> gdm, kdm, xdm, whateverdm
[10:18] <rublind> joolz, I don't think they work correctly though.
[10:18] <miqorz> Entrance is the best *dm. But startx rules them all :P
[10:18] <joolz> rublind, sorry, i was just kidding
[10:18] <rublind> Oh.
[10:18] <rublind> I'm new to linux, so :P
[10:19] <Skif> the best *dm is the one that doesn't crash when you try to run it :-P
[10:19] <rexiboy> ElBast, than you will need to place it on the desktop, it will be a tiny dot, right click and add starter
[10:19] <joolz> rublind, welcome then!
[10:19] <miqorz> lol
[10:19] <rublind> Thanks ^_^
[10:19] <miqorz> I'm what you may call a "veteran" despite being 16 and only been using *n?x a year.
[10:19] <miqorz> =\
[10:19] <rublind> I'm sixteen, and I've only used knoppix, and some suse and fedora.
[10:19] <rublind> Ubuntu is my first permanent installation.
[10:20] <miqorz> I've used them all :P
[10:20] <miqorz> i don't even use linux now. FreeBSD is nice.
[10:20] <Skif> stop that crap right now, or I will rant about H.R.Puffenstuf :P
[10:20] <joolz> jesus, i'm a dinosaur :-) I think i started with redhat 5.1 or something like that :)
[10:20] <attitude> had to build it from source
[10:20] <attitude> how can I make a deb of the nvidia-kernel-sources for the k7
[10:20] <miqorz> Skif, Nothing like smoking a big fat bag of crack and watching HR PuffnStuff
[10:20] <ElBast> rexiboy: aha, it seems to be working... cool, thanks
[10:20] <Skif> o_O;; er, okay
[10:20] <miqorz> haha
[10:21] <rexiboy> ElBast, no worries :)
[10:21] <Skif> one of the nice things about appalachia was, no crack
[10:21] <miqorz> haha
[10:21] <Skif> except for the occasional plumber
[10:21] <miqorz> =p
[10:21] <rexiboy> any one got firewire working? trying to access my sony cam
[10:21] <rublind> Uh-oh.
[10:21] <rublind> I tried to ./configure something (before installing), and it can't find a C compiler in the PATH
[10:22] <Skif> rublind: you have gcc installed?
[10:22] <rublind> I have what came with ubuntu
[10:22] <rublind> Just installed it.
[10:22] <SuperL4g> You guys familiar with Kate... one of KDE's text editors? Is there something that looks/works similar for Gnome?
[10:23] <Skif> rublind: keep in mind that whenever a configure script says "<foo> not found" you usually need both "foo" and "foo-dev" packages
[10:23] <Skif> or "libfoo-dev"
[10:23] <rublind> Uh.
[10:23] <Skif> for example, configure sez, "guile not found", you usually need guile and libguile-dev
[10:24] <joem> SuperL4g, gedit I guess
[10:24] <rublind> Where can I get a c compiler?
[10:24] <|trey|> Skif: usually a lot easier to resolve such things with "auto-apt"  :/
[10:24] <jdub> rublind: apt-get install build-essential
[10:24] <joem> rublind, install build-essential
[10:24] <|trey|> Skif: I recommend checking it out  :)
[10:25] <Skif> trey: what an interesting package.
[10:25] <mojo> SuperLag: try Anjuta or GNOME Editor
[10:25] <miqorz> this place sure is active at 4:23 am
[10:25] <miqorz> =p
[10:25] <Skif> I think I'd rather take care of dependencies manually, but I like the idea
[10:25] <joem> anjuta is a full blown ide
[10:26] <Skif> apt-listchanges for sure, that's too nice
[10:26] <rublind> Ah, crap, my sound isn't working.
[10:26] <maskie> miqorz, but it might be 6 hours later somewhere else
[10:26] <jdub> |trey|: auto-apt is *not* a good idea.
[10:26] <|trey|> -listbugs if you're using test releases etc... debfoster to make keeping track of packages easier... auto-apt just cuz it rocks  :)
[10:27] <|trey|> jdub: how so?
[10:27] <|trey|> auto-apt search is pretty useful  :/
[10:27] <jdub> |trey|: it needs explaining?
[10:27] <|trey|> jdub: I use it, never had a problem  :(
[10:28] <rublind> Someone want to help me fix my sound?
[10:28] <jdub> here's a post from 2000
[10:28] <jdub> http://www.progsoc.uts.edu.au/lists/slug/2000/July/msg00674.html
[10:28] <joolz> hmmm, if .bash_profile isn't parsed, where do i start my fetchmail daemon? from init.d?
[10:29] <|trey|> jdub: doesn't appear to wanna load here  :(
[10:29] <|trey|> nm
[10:29] <Skif> joolz: there's always crontab -e
[10:29] <jdub> hrm, actually that's the first thread
[10:29] <Skif> use @boot for the time
[10:29] <jdub> there's another one about insane crack
[10:30] <jdub> yeah, @boot is rad for fetchmail
[10:30] <rexiboy> where do i enable raw1394 support?
[10:30] <Skif> jdub: dircproxy, too
[10:30] <joolz> Skif, afaik crontab will do things periodically, i just want it done on boot (or login)
[10:30] <Skif> joolz: that's what @boot does
[10:30] <Skif> man 5 crontab
[10:30] <rexiboy> do i need to compile the kernel?
[10:30] <|trey|> jdub: yeah, it doesn't seem that negative... that sounds like what auto-apt is meant for...
[10:31] <joolz> Skif, ok, thanks, o'll have a look
[10:31] <jdub> |trey|: there's another thread.
[10:31] <Skif> oops, it's @reboot
[10:31] <Skif> my bad
[10:31] <jdub> |trey|: still, automatically installing stuff based on access is not a remotely sensible default.
[10:32] <|trey|> jdub: how so? beats them coming here asking "./configure says this, what does it mean?"
[10:32] <Skif> imagine a program that dlopen()s a number of libs, just to optionally use them if they exist
[10:33] <Skif> trey: normal users won't be ./configure-ing :)
[10:33] <|trey|> jdub: maybe make it part of build-essential at least? its usually used more by people compiling things  :/
[10:33] <jdub> |trey|: so now you've got users who don't know what they're doing, having their system automagically installing stuff they don't understand... yeesh.
[10:33] <Skif> trey: but then package builders wouldn't get their build-deps right
[10:33] <Skif> it's bad enough as it is 
[10:33] <rublind> Someone: Help me get my Audigy sound card to work.
[10:33] <|trey|> ...or by people used to something being installed, and its not... like lsof in regular debian installs...
[10:34] <|trey|> jdub: many things installed by ubuntu by default I don't understand or need  :/  
[10:34] <|trey|> at least they will want the stuff installed  :/
[10:34] <jdub> |trey|: that's different to dynamically installing stuff in an insecure manner
[10:35] <|trey|> Things like LVM and RAID being configured by default is just as problematic imo...
[10:35] <daniels> hm
[10:35] <|trey|> People don't know its there though, so they don't know to play with it  :/
[10:35] <daniels> does this mean that if I post a blog entry with <img src="file:///usr/bin/kopete">, I'll cause half of KDE to be installed for eveyrone reading Planet Debian?
[10:36] <Skif> trey: you could always write a bot that lurked here, listened for people complaining about configure issues, and told them to install auto-apt :)
[10:36] <|trey|> Skif: bah
[10:36] <jdub> no, no, no, auto-apt is not a sane solution to the problem
[10:36] <rexiboy> trying to install doom 3 to /usr/local/games but it says no write permission. but th einstall asked for root pass...???
[10:36] <daniels> not even close
[10:36] <|trey|> jdub: *shrug* all the tools I listed are the first things to be installed  :/
[10:37] <|trey|> Guess they are no good for the masses?
[10:37] <jdub> of course not
[10:37] <daniels> |trey|: i don't see how that means everyone should use auto-apt, however
[10:37] <rexiboy> any ideas?
[10:37] <jdub> rexiboy: use sudo
[10:37] <daniels> rexiboy: try running the install script with sudo
[10:37] <miqorz> run installer as root
[10:37] <rexiboy> will try
[10:38] <joolz> or try with sudo -s
[10:38] <Skif> kinda humbling, it was
[10:38] <daniels> Skif: yeah, he's me
[10:39] <daniels> |trey|: and again, think of things checking for stuff to see if it's there
[10:39] <Skif> daniels: I've seen you drink, he's not like you either :)
[10:39] <daniels> |trey|: suddenly you have Mono, KDE, CUPS, LDAP, everything under the sun installed and hey, where'd my diskspace go?
[10:39] <daniels> |trey|: i think it's possibly the furthest thing from the right solution
[10:39] <daniels> Skif: heh! whisky bof, or other?
[10:39] <Skif> daniels: I paid for your hotel & ols
[10:39] <Skif> er, @ ols, even
[10:39] <|trey|> daniels: it wouldn't install things that aren't requested  :/
[10:40] <Skif> well, my employers paid :)
[10:40] <daniels> Skif: yeah :) it's not like it was at all damaged
[10:40] <miqorz>  "Uhem... uhh... Saddam... Osama.. uhh umm... Weapons of Mass Destruction!"
[10:40] <miqorz> =P
[10:40] <Skif> daniels: unlike, say, your head that morning? :)
[10:40] <jdub> |trey|: the opposite is the problem.
[10:40] <|trey|> Debian's depends etc are set up usually in an attempt to allow the least possible to be installed if you request the right package...
[10:40] <rexiboy> nah, doom will not install on 64 i guess :(
[10:41] <daniels> Skif: oh man, yeah.  at least I was lucid enough to greet you ;)
[10:41] <jdub> |trey|: it is not a sane solution, indeed, making building software easier is generally *not* a sane solution.
[10:41] <|trey|> jdub: the opposite... so installing things the user wants is the problem?
[10:41] <MrMario64> Hi guys
[10:41] <Skif> daniels: heh.  Actually, that was the first year I was sensible, and didn't completely go blotto at the afterparty
[10:41] <jdub> |trey|: the user *does not know* -> forget building, think about every other instance.
[10:42] <|trey|> jdub: but people don't compile things generally... hence making it part of build-essential?
[10:42] <MrMario64> question: ubuntu mounts my smb share in fstab before my wireless pcmcia networkcard is running. How can I change the order?
[10:42] <jdub> |trey|: it is not a sane solution to any problem, full stop.
[10:42] <daniels> Skif: yeah, I totally missed the afterparty
[10:43] <jdub> |trey|: technical users who are aware of its function will use it for particular jobs, and that's about it.
[10:43] <Skif> daniels: yeah, I remember; you had to go to the states with the RH guys, right?
[10:43] <Skif> don't feel bad, you missed a bunch of drunken geeks arguing about KDE vs. GNOME :P
[10:43] <daniels> Skif: not really, it was more that I decided that there were very many good things for me to do that day, and drink more wasn't one of them
[10:43] <daniels> anyway, ride's here, must head off :)
[10:43] <|trey|> jdub: primary use: making things compile without constant errors... imo, the compilation process doesn't teach you as much as advertised  :/
[10:43] <daniels> heh!
[10:43] <Skif> ta :)
[10:44] <|trey|> I'm not a programmer, hence compiling is not useful in most cases... but when I have to, I don't wanna think  :/
[10:44] <jdub> you shouldn't be building software
[10:44] <Skif> trey: speaking as a programmer, I want to make sure I am installing the right things when I compile
[10:45] <jdub> you shouldn't be using fundamentally insecure hacks to avoid learning what you're doing
[10:45] <Skif> for instance, several packages might provide the functionality I need, and I probably don't want auto-apt picking the wrong one.
[10:45] <|trey|> Non-programmers (like myself) don't care whats needed to compile something, they just won't it to work... they can't customize the code themselves anyways  :/
[10:45] <jdub> dude
[10:45] <jdub> you should not be compiling software
[10:45] <joem> |trey|, he is right
[10:45] <jdub> optimising the process of compiling software for people who don't know what they're doing is totally silly
[10:46] <Skif> trey, this is one of those cases where if one man calls you a jackass, you can ignore him, but when the whole channel does, you might start looking for a saddle. :)
[10:46] <|trey|> jdub: when something isn't available... or customizing my own kernels... I compile... 
[10:46] <joem> you can't compile your own software and customize a kernel and then say you don't want to think
[10:47] <|trey|> the process of compiling still doesn't teach me much though... gentoo's dep checking fixes this on the fly, but I due to not liking to compile... I don't use Gentoo  :/
[10:47] <|trey|> auto-apt fixes the deps in the same way though... on the fly  :/
[10:47] <jdub> none of this is worthwhile rationale for doing silly, insecure things
[10:47] <jdub> let's leave it
[10:48] <|trey|> I still don't understand how installing things is insecure... make install requires you be root anyways  :/
[10:49] <jdub> oh good god
[10:49] <rublind> How do you open .deb?
[10:49] <|trey|> man dpkg-deb
[10:49] <Skif> trey: you can use --prefix to install in non-root-requiring places
[10:49] <jdub> |trey|: auto-apt is a serious security hole. end of discussion, please.
[10:49] <rublind> Thank you.
[10:49] <|trey|> jdub: hah.. k fine... :)
[10:50] <|trey|> Skif: I would rather apps go in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin... that way its for everyone  :/
[10:50] <Skif> trey: nevermind, the horse is dead, let's stop flogging it
[10:51] <Skif> mmm, horse sausage
[10:51] <Skif> trey: doesn't mean it's not insecure on gentoo as well. 
[10:52] <jdub> |trey|: *auto-apt* is what we were talking about.
[10:52] <|trey|> I didn't say its not... I said its common place  :/
[10:52] <jdub> building software is just pointless, not insecure
[10:52] <joem> please lets not get into distrox vs distroy
[10:53] <|trey|> jdub: I use auto-apt in much the same way as portage functions though... to resolve things while compiling... its pointless perhaps... but I still do it... hence being part of build-essential or simular  :/
[10:53] <|trey|> joem: I'm not... just stating an example  :/
[10:53] <jdub> 1. auto-apt is fundamentally different to dependencies in portage
[10:53] <Skif> trey: you can install it if you need; most users won't, so they don't need it
[10:53] <jdub> 2. auto-apt is insecure
[10:53] <joem> it isn't an example, it is apples and oranges
[10:54] <jdub> 3. there is absolutely no chance in hell of auto-apt being added to the depends of build-essential, let alone into our supported set
[10:54] <|trey|> Its (2) that I'm still not enlightened about... because I *am* using it... so would like to know   :/
[10:54] <jdub> |trey|: look at daniels's example above
[10:55] <joolz> hmm too bad, no irssi. Any suggestions for another repository?
[10:55] <jdub> joolz: irssi is installed by default
[10:55] <joolz> jdub, 
[10:55] <joolz> woops
[10:55] <joolz> thanks
[10:55] <|trey|> jdub: debfoster fixes such things... allows you keep better track of software  :/
[10:55] <jdub> also, use 'apt-cache search irssi' and similar to find packages
[10:56] <joolz> ok i will
[10:56] <SuperL4g> isn't muine available for Ubuntu?
[10:56] <jdub> |trey|: debfoster has nothing to do with the insecurity of auto-apt
[10:56] <|trey|> jdub: I see nothing in his example pertaining to security... ugh... I still don't understand that part  :(
[10:56] <ushooz> SuperL4g, if you add some other sources to your apt-get list
[10:57] <jdub> if you have a webpage with <a href="file://usr/bin/kopete">click me for fun!</a>
[10:57] <jdub> and the user clicks it
[10:57] <|trey|>  |trey|: suddenly you have Mono, KDE, CUPS, LDAP, everything under the sun installed and hey, where'd my diskspace go?  <-- never had anything like this happen using auto-apt  :/
[10:57] <jdub> and has auto-apt installed
[10:58] <jdub> auto-apt will resolve the access to /usr/bin/kopete
[10:58] <jdub> which means that blammo, every dependency of kopete is installed
[10:58] <jdub> a very significant number of packages, on an ubuntu system
[10:58] <|trey|> jdub: sure, as a regular user, who has no access to install packages...
[10:59] <|trey|> It might try though  :/
[10:59] <|trey|> If the user is accessing the web with root rights, it deserves such things to happen  :/
[10:59] <jdub> you're rationalising now
[10:59] <jdub> and avoiding the point
[10:59] <jdub> it's an absolutely stupid behaviour to inflict on a system by default
[11:00] <jdub> and not a sane solution to "i don't know how to build software"
[11:00] <jdub> can we please leave it now?
[11:01] <|trey|> I know how.. its just tedious going out and figuring out what I need  :/  auto-apt was recommended to me in here... apt-file is what I usually use, but auto-apt requires no user action  :/
[11:01] <littelpaul> morning there ;-)
[11:01] <jdub> let's leave it now
[11:02] <jdub> dude
[11:02] <Skif> trey: no, the point of apt is that it manages package dependencies
[11:02] <jdub> come on
[11:02] <|trey|> jdub: I'm no longer requesting auto-apt... and no one is asking things.. just trying to learn  :/
[11:02] <Skif> nothing to do with building software
[11:02] <|trey|> I'm just wondering still why auto-apt is insecure when you are doing things as a user with no rights  :/
[11:03] <littelpaul> i have an problem with the name resolution under ubuntu so i can not surf ;-( can anybody help?
[11:03] <|trey|> does auto-apt act simular to sudo or something? (ie giving the user rights?)
[11:04] <|trey|> littelpaul: dhcp-client is installed? do you have a local DNS? does /etc/resolv.conf point there?
[11:05] <|trey|> if no to second question, does it point to your ISP's DNS?
[11:05] <littelpaul> i use dsl an got an dynamic dsl and the nameserver are in resolv.conf. i can also ping my dynamic ip
[11:06] <littelpaul> ipv6 is already down
[11:06] <Skif> can you ping your nameserver?
[11:06] <littelpaul> no
[11:07] <Skif> well, there's yer problem.  Complain 
[11:07] <Skif> to your isp :)
[11:08] <|trey|> Skif: yes, yes it is  ;)
[11:08] <joolz> no mouse jokes please :)
[11:09] <littelpaul> i use the same nameserver as under suse and there everything ist ok
[11:09] <|trey|> littelpaul: peice of advice though, don't mention its Linux... most ISP's will shrug it off as "Linux isn't supported"  :/
[11:09] <littelpaul> i know ;-)
[11:10] <littelpaul> brb
[11:17] <MrMario64> question: ubuntu mounts my smb share in fstab before my wireless pcmcia networkcard is running. How can I change the order?
[11:19] <Lathiat> MrMario64: heh i noticed the same problem in debian
[11:19] <MrMario64> luckily I am not alone then :)
[11:21] <Lathiat> you can changfe the orders
[11:21] <Lathiat> look at /etc/rc1.d the numbers are the order
[11:21] <MrMario64> k, looking
[11:21] <Lathiat> update-rc.d changes them too
[11:21] <Lathiat> i dunno which one does the mounting
[11:22] <Lathiat> ah theyre done in rcS
[11:22] <Lathiat> mountnfs.sh does it
[11:23] <MrMario64> k, so what to do?
[11:23] <Lathiat> if this fucks your system up its not my fault :)
[11:23] <Lathiat> but
[11:23] <MrMario64> hehe
[11:24] <Lathiat> sorry my friends bit-torrenting im lagged to death
[11:24] <Lathiat> cd /etc/rc2.d
[11:24] <Lathiat> ln -s ../init.d/mountsnfs.sh S70mountnfs.sh
[11:24] <Lathiat> typod mount<s>nfs.sh there
[11:24] <Lathiat> should be no s
[11:29] <ricochet> Hi, why cant I find/install vi/vim?
[11:30] <Lathiat> im positive vim was installed in the default install for me
[11:30] <Lathiat> and its in main
[11:30] <joem> it is default
[11:32] <ricochet> where is it?
[11:32] <ricochet> not in /usr/bin
[11:32] <ricochet> the vim package appears to be installed
[11:32] <Tiboz> yes it is :)
[11:32] <Lathiat> it is for me
[11:32] <Tiboz> 11:32[pts/2] tiboz@deirdre:~%which vim
[11:32] <Tiboz> /usr/bin/vim
[11:33] <Lathiat> ricochet: file /usr/bin/vim
[11:33] <MrMario64> Lathiat, is there a default file I can put commands in that will always be done on startup?
[11:33] <Lathiat> MrMario64: No but you can make one
[11:33] <joolz> ~/.vimrc
[11:34] <ricochet> # file /usr/bin/vim
[11:34] <ricochet> /usr/bin/vim: cannot open '/usr/bin/vim' (No such file or directory)
[11:34] <Lathiat> joolz: i assume hes reeferring to system startup cus thats what we were talkign about before
[11:34] <Lathiat> rico	sudo apt-get install vim --reinstalll
[11:34] <joolz> Lathiat, o, sorry
[11:35] <Lathiat> MrMario64: make a file /etc/init.d/rc2_misc.sh , make it an executable shell script etc and then
[11:35] <ricochet> Unpacking replacement vim ...
[11:35] <ricochet> Setting up vim (6.3-025+1ubuntu2) ...
[11:35] <ricochet> lox:~# vim
[11:35] <ricochet> -su: vim: command not found
[11:35] <Tiboz> weird
[11:35] <ricochet> wtf?
[11:35] <Lathiat> MrMario64: update-rc.d rc2_misc.sh defaults s022
[11:35] <Lathiat> rico	echo $PATH
[11:36] <ricochet> /usr/bin is in the path
[11:36] <Lathiat> MrMario64: s202 ather
[11:36] <ricochet> lox:~# echo $PATH
[11:36] <ricochet> /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11
[11:36] <Lathiat> MrMario64: wtf my keyboards gone spaz
[11:36] <Lathiat> mr	s202
[11:36] <MrMario64> hehe
[11:36] <Lathiat> im /me stares at his keyboard
[11:36] <Lathiat> s02
[11:36] <Lathiat> damnit
[11:37] <Lathiat> got it right that time :)
[11:37] <Lathiat> ricochet:L try --remove vim --purge and install it again
[11:39] <Lathiat> so sudo apt-get remove vim --purge and apt-get install vim
[11:40] <ricochet> yeah, that worked.  also removed kde, kdeaddons, wimpart, kvim, vim, vim-common
[11:40] <ricochet> I install kde again, and vim is gone again.
[11:40] <Lathiat> ah right
[11:40] <Lathiat> kvim must comflict with vim
[11:41] <Lathiat> gateway:~> apt-cache show kvim |grep Conf
[11:41] <Lathiat> Conflicts: vim-tiny, vim-perl, vim-python, vim-ruby, vim-tcl, vim-tty, vim-gtk, vim-lesstif, vim-gnome, kvim (<< 1:6.2-135+1), kvim-perl, kvim-ruby, kvim-tcl, kvim-python
[11:41] <Lathiat> :)
[11:41] <ricochet> sooo, how do I get vim and kde?
[11:42] <ricochet> to work together, like it does on my deb box
[11:42] <Lathiat> well kde isnt exactly supported atm so thats why its broken i guess um
[11:43] <ricochet> :-/
[11:43] <Lathiat> you dont :P
[11:43] <Lathiat> you can force apt not to remove vim
[11:43] <Lathiat> but it might break things....
[11:43] <Lathiat> and probably will
[11:44] <ricochet> well this is sort of suckie.
[11:44] <Lathiat> indeedie
[11:44] <ricochet> kvim doesnt seem to want to work either.
[11:45] <ricochet> can I put debian sources in to get their packages somehow?  how does that work
[11:46] <Lathiat> It will probably break it horibnly
[11:46] <littlepaul> got it the name resolution functions ;-)
[11:46] <Lathiat> ok i think your system sib0rked it doesnt conflict with vim
[11:46] <Lathiat> ricochet: have you apt-get updated recently?
[11:46] <Lathiat> i can install kvim here without removing vim
[11:47] <ricochet> yes.  it keeps sending errors here and there about something not in gzip format
[11:47] <Lathiat> umm
[11:47] <Lathiat> paste your apt sources to me in private?
[11:47] <ricochet> I asked here a few days ago and someone said, just keep trying.
[11:48] <Lathiat> theyre workign fine for me
[11:48] <Lathiat> and you could try a mirror
[11:49] <ricochet> says you are away?
[11:50] <MrMario64> Lathiat, why did we put the mountnfs in rc2.d and not in rc1.d or 5 ??/ in other words. Can you say in few words when which rc is used?
[11:51] <Lathiat> MrMario64: oh yeh rc1 would be better i meant that 
[11:51] <Lathiat> or well, it depends what you want to do wreally
[11:51] <Lathiat> rc1 is single user mode, rc2 is when it goes into X mode
[11:51] <Lathiat> rcS is when its fierst starting up
[11:51] <MrMario64> ah ok
[11:52] <MrMario64> on google they say that runlevel 5 is when X starts
[11:52] <Lathiat> it epends on the distribution
[11:52] <MrMario64> ok
[11:52] <MrMario64> to make it easy :))
[11:52] <Lathiat> let me check ubuntus
[11:52] <DXT> when trying to mount a fat32 partition with nls=iso8859-8 (or iocharset=) it gives me an error, but on ntfs it works. how do i mount it (the fat32 part) with a specific charset?
[11:53] <Lathiat> gdm runs from 2-5
[11:53] <Lathiat> so i guess it could be in 5 im not sure, but if you just want to do some startup tools, you probably want it in 1 or 2
[11:53] <MrMario64> ok, I get it..
[11:54] <MrMario64> now what we did is move the mounting. Can I also move the startup of pcmcia? as now I think it will try 2 times to mount or am I wrong here?
[11:54] <sarcasm> what should i do to translate ubuntu installer to my language (Latvian)? 
[11:55] <ricochet> translate yourself.  *sarcasm*
[11:55] <sarcasm> ricochet, that's what i intend to do, where do i start?
[11:56] <ricochet> I was just being sarcastic.  i dunno.
[11:56] <Lathiat> MrMario64: it will but that doesnt matter
[11:56] <Lathiat> sarcasm: im not sure but ask the debian installer guys how they handle their translations?
[11:57] <vrln> is the new artwork here to stay? (just noticed that it's even on the front page @ ubuntulinux.org now)
[11:58] <ricochet> I like the nipples.
[11:58] <sarcasm> Lathiat, well, that would be a start, but isn't ubuntu installer branched from the debian one?
[12:00] <Lathiat> sarcasm: yes but i have no idea how translations are done, its probably gettext but i dunno so find out how theyre done then get the files out of the ubuntu installer and send file a bug for ubuntu with the translation?
[12:04] <jdub> sarcasm: ask Kamion when he's around - he's our cyborg installer guy, powered by thermonuclear energy.
[12:06] <ondrej> is there some bug# for translations? I would like to help with Czech ones.
[12:07] <ondrej> gnome-panel menu needs some l10n love :-)
[12:12] <sarcasm> isn't the gnome-panel handled by gnome-i18n team?
[12:14] <ondrej> could be, but I think that Ubuntu has some homebrew changes...(?)
[12:15] <jdub> yeah
[12:15] <jdub> ondrej: a quick search will find that bug
[12:15] <miqorz> http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/09/road.trip.ap/index.html
[12:15] <miqorz> lol
[12:15] <miqorz> discuss.
[12:16] <joem> quite off topic
[12:16] <miqorz> joem, Are you in *every* channel?
[12:16] <miqorz> =p
[12:17] <ondrej> jdub: ok, i will stop being lazy :-)
[12:17] <joem> miqorz, yes
[12:18] <miqorz> joem, lol
[12:20] <topyli> gaim sucks surprisingly little. i wish there were a way to suppress the join/leave messages though
[12:20] <miqorz> I wish it looked a little neater personally
[12:20] <miqorz> the layout is pretty boring.
[12:20] <topyli> i wish i looked a little neater
[12:20] <miqorz> me too
[12:20] <miqorz> You look like hell
[12:20] <miqorz> =p
[12:21] <topyli> heh. it's not an irc tool anyway so this is more than i expected really
[12:26] <miqorz> It's easy to remove lots of the crap preinstalled by ubuntu right?
[12:27] <topyli> sure
[12:27] <miqorz> =p
[12:27] <topyli> you could have installed a base system only in the first place
[12:27] <miqorz> Ubuntu seems like the only distro i'd wanna use coming off freebsd
[12:27] <miqorz> i haven't installed it yet
[12:27] <miqorz> lol
[12:28] <miqorz> You can install base system?
[12:28] <miqorz> =)
[12:28] <topyli> oh, well install in expert mode or whatever it's called
[12:28] <miqorz> oooo
[12:28] <miqorz> very nice.
[12:29] <topyli> see the help screen when you start the install
[12:29] <miqorz> I'm sick of reinstalls but freebsd is causing me troubles.
[12:29] <topyli> dunno about bsd, but you don't have to install debian very often :)
[12:30] <miqorz> freebsd is the same way
[12:30] <miqorz> but
[12:30] <miqorz> ive been switching distros and OS' alot
[12:30] <topyli> well, everyone has to have a hobby i guess ;)
[12:31] <miqorz> well freebsd is what i WANT
[12:31] <miqorz> linux is what i NEED
[12:31] <vrln> I also switch distros all the time... haven't seriously tried a *BSD yet though
[12:31] <vrln> looking forward to check out freebsd 5.3 once it's released though
[12:31] <miqorz> E's CVS crap wont compile on freebsd
[12:31] <topyli> miqorz: ah, there's a funky dilemma :)
[12:31] <miqorz> topyli, indeed. :(
[12:32] <miqorz> does ubuntu use grub?
[12:32] <topyli> yes
[12:32] <miqorz> oh fsck
[12:32] <topyli> well you can use lilo if you want
[12:32] <miqorz> i might have to transfer my home to my slave drive and install ubuntu
[12:32] <miqorz> no no
[12:32] <miqorz> i love grub
[12:32] <topyli> that's the default
[12:32] <miqorz> shit man
[12:33] <miqorz> i might be switching tomorrow
[12:33] <topyli> miqorz: damn it's hard to know when you're happy and when you're not. "oh shit" means "great" i guess =)
[12:33] <miqorz> im depressed now ~_~
[12:33] <miqorz> lol
[12:33] <topyli> hehe
[12:34] <miqorz> i NEED linux for my vital stuff like webcam and E CVS
[12:34] <miqorz> but i like freebsd alot more
[12:34] <miqorz> =\
[12:34] <miqorz> topyli, Do me two favours?
[12:34] <topyli> two? hell!
[12:35] <topyli> what's wrong?
[12:35] <miqorz> What's the latest Enlightenment and  Openbox3 versions in ubuntu's default apt setup
[12:35] <miqorz> lol
[12:35] <topyli> e is 0.16 (as always :)
[12:35] <miqorz> i mean
[12:36] <miqorz> 0.16.?
[12:36] <miqorz> the latest is .0.16.7.1
[12:36] <miqorz> i think
[12:36] <topyli> 0.16.6-1
[12:36] <topyli> here
[12:36] <miqorz> :\
[12:36] <topyli> openbox 3.2-4
[12:36] <miqorz> i'll have to compile that from cvs too,.
[12:37] <miqorz> atleast the openbox version is recent
[12:37] <miqorz> i swear man
[12:37] <topyli> and they're not in the "default" setup. you have to enable "universe"
[12:37] <miqorz> im pissed
[12:37] <miqorz> lol
[12:37] <miqorz> topyli, What do you mean by that?
[12:38] <miqorz> Im not familiar with ubuntu or debian really
[12:38] <topyli> there's "main", "restricted", "universe"
[12:38] <topyli> universe is about the same as debian
[12:38] <miqorz> where do i enable these?
[12:38] <Treenaks> miqorz: why would you be pissed? you could have known the default was Gnome, and the rest in universe if you would have read the website...
[12:38] <Treenaks> miqorz: in /etc/apt/sources.list
[12:38] <topyli> miqorz: in sources.list, just uncomment them
[12:39] <miqorz> Treenaks, I knew it was default. I just didn't know I could install WITHOUT them.
[12:39] <topyli> miqorz: most of debian wisdom applies to ubuntu
[12:40] <miqorz> *is backing up all the crap he wants to keep*
[12:41] <PandU> does apt-get dist upgrade work for ubuntu amd-64 to get the rc version ?
[12:41] <PandU> And Is it not better to select all upgradables in synaptic and apply upgrade
[12:44] <topyli> PandU: no difference really. set synaptic to use the "smart upgrade" and it's the same as dist-upgrade
[12:52] <solsTiCe> i wanted to play some mp3 with rhyhtmbox and it complain about an non existant plugin to handle mp3. what is that plugin ?
[12:55] <topyli> solsTiCe: dunno, it should Just Work. this happens with all mp3?s
[12:55] <topyli> mp3s?, heh
[12:56] <kent> solsTiCe, perhaps the extra plugin is in the restricted archive, since it has patent-problems..?
[12:56] <solsTiCe> topyli: they are in a partition 
[12:56] <miqorz> Ubuntu uses XFree?
[12:56] <miqorz> :(
[12:56] <rmt> Xorg next release.
[12:56] <eaon> woo
[12:56] <eaon> 6.8.0 i hope
[12:57] <topyli> solsTiCe: i mean the same problem happens with all mp3s and not just some? and does totem play them?
[12:57] <miqorz> I dont
[12:57] <solsTiCe> topyli: i am installing gsreamer-mad (see that on the wiki) i make a try
[12:58] <|trey|> eaon: as apposed to 6.8.1? umm, any peticular reason?
[12:58] <eaon> i didn't know .1 is out :)
[12:58] <solsTiCe> topyli: ok it works
[12:58] <topyli> weird but nice :)
[12:59] <solsTiCe> topyli: what? you don't have to install gstreamer-mad to plau your mp3s ? 
[12:59] <solsTiCe> topyli: with rhythmobox
[12:59] <|trey|> eaon: in all honesty though, xorg and xfree aren't different enough yet to make a difference... composite is still experimental, so its not a big deal to users...
[01:00] <jeanlouis> hi everybody
[01:00] <|trey|> Speed differences are hardly noticeable  :(
[01:00] <jeanlouis> I'm looking for help
[01:00] <|trey|> jeanlouis: you came to the right place  :)
[01:00] <jeanlouis> I can't config my path
[01:00] <|trey|> Now all we need is a question  :)
[01:00] <eaon> |trey|, it's not about whats nice right now imo
[01:01] <eaon> xorg makes a lot of progress, xfree... is xfree.
[01:01] <jeanlouis> when I modify .bash_profile to set my path
[01:01] <|trey|> eaon: nothing else is different really today...
[01:01] <jeanlouis> there is no change
[01:01] <|trey|> jeanlouis: source .bash_profile..
[01:01] <eaon> |trey|, okay, in more clear words: i don't care about right now :)
[01:01] <|trey|> You need to log out and back in to make changes take effect, or source it...
[01:01] <eaon> xorg is just the way to go for the future so why wait ages
[01:02] <|trey|> eaon: tomorrow's features don't help me today  :/
[01:02] <miqorz> i hope i don't have to edit my xorg.conf too much for Ubuntu 
[01:02] <eaon> |trey|, hell, where's the problem with removing one package and install another?
[01:02] <eaon> as you said, it's the same, there's no extra effort
[01:03] <eaon> but there's a set path for xorg
[01:03] <crimsun> eaon: it's being worked on. there's a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in transitioning from a monolithic build tree to a modular x.org one
[01:03] <eaon> why the hell would one want?
[01:03] <|trey|> eaon: why implement tomorrows technology before it is different today? why not work on the changes, THEN implement?
[01:03] <|trey|> jeanlouis: don't message me, ask here...
[01:03] <jeanlouis> i don't understand source
[01:03] <joem> eaon, important patches from xorg are present in the ubuntu xfree packages, this conversation isn't helping anybody and flooding the chan
[01:03] <eaon> it's not my fault :)
[01:03] <joem> xorg will be in the next release, if you wanna talk direction, ask in #xorg
[01:04] <eaon> it's |trey| s ;)
[01:04] <eaon> anyway i gotta go
[01:04] <|trey|> Xfree works today... Xorg is still basically XFree 4.3.99 with minimal changes, so its not a big deal  :/
[01:04] <miqorz> uhem
[01:04] <miqorz> bullshit?
[01:04] <|trey|> jeanlouis: it just runs the script again.
[01:04] <miqorz> Have you even used 6.8.1?
[01:04] <|trey|> jeanlouis: .bash_profile = a script
[01:05] <|trey|> miqorz: yes.
[01:05] <miqorz> bleh
[01:05] <|trey|> miqorz: Fedora Core 3 test 3.
[01:05] <miqorz> i used it on gentoo
[01:06] <jeanlouis> ok
[01:06] <jeanlouis> but there is no change 
[01:06] <|trey|> miqorz: umm, did you use Xfree on Gentoo?
[01:06] <jeanlouis> i edit my .bash_profile
[01:06] <miqorz> XFree then Xorg
[01:06] <|trey|> jeanlouis: echo $PATH
[01:06] <jeanlouis> but no change
[01:06] <jeanlouis> no change
[01:06] <|trey|> miqorz: and you noticed speed differences?
[01:07] <miqorz> Yup
[01:07] <|trey|> jeanlouis: umm, then make sure you changed it  :/
[01:07] <miqorz> Xorg keeps getting faster with each release
[01:07] <|trey|> miqorz: I haven't noticed, but ok  :/
[01:07] <miqorz> maybe that's because fedora is a bloated mess?
[01:07] <miqorz> ;)
[01:07] <jeanlouis> I'm sure 
[01:08] <maskie> jeanlouis, and make sure you execute the .bash_profile script after you changed it
[01:08] <|trey|> jeanlouis: If you changed it in .bash_profile, and 'source ~/.bash_profile, echo $PATH should show your changes  :/
[01:09] <jeanlouis> ok i find why it doesn't work thx guys
[01:09] <|trey|> If it doesn't, you did something wrong  :/
[01:09] <eaon> (you see, i'm not the one who wants to discuss xorg vs xfree :P) bye people
[01:10] <|trey|> miqorz: eh... its not really that bloated... Ubuntu = 1.7gb, Fedora = 2.3gb
[01:10] <miqorz> the disk space has nothing to do with bloat hun
[01:10] <|trey|> Only difference is Fedora installs KDE libs by default  :/
[01:10] <miqorz> i like kde apps
[01:11] <miqorz> like kpovemodeler, kate and k3b
[01:11] <|trey|> miqorz: what pertains to bloat in your opinion?
[01:11] <|trey|> miqorz: KDE is off topic here... just stating what the difference is...
[01:11] <miqorz> bloat for me is just a "feeling" of un-needed sllowneess
[01:11] <miqorz> that's just for -me-
[01:12] <|trey|> miqorz: *shrug* Fedora feels fast to me  :/
[01:12] <miqorz> never has for me
[01:12] <|trey|> miqorz: shitty  :(
[01:12] <topyli> i guess it's the slowest system i've tried :)
[01:13] <topyli> i take that back! it was rh9, i've never had fedora
[01:13] <miqorz> debian and slackware have been the fastest for me
[01:13] <|trey|> For me, its at least as fast as Ubuntu... but then, it uses the same apps, so that can be expected...
[01:14] <|trey|> Things like OpenOffice feel faster there though  :/
[01:14] <|trey|> ...and Mozilla  :/
[01:14] <miqorz> who uses mozilla?
[01:14] <miqorz> o_O
[01:14] <|trey|> miqorz: Firefox, me  :/
[01:14] <miqorz> i use firefox exclusively
[01:14] <miqorz> i dont even have mozilla installed
[01:15] <|trey|> miqorz: and for whatever reason, FC3T3's Firefox feels faster  :/
[01:15] <topyli> i dure hope OOo 2 will be snappier than 1.x. if it's slower i'll write everything with vi :)
[01:15] <topyli> s/dure/sure
[01:15] <miqorz> My only reason for dumping gentoo was how prone is was to breaking and it's users
[01:15] <|trey|> topyli: its supposedly SUBSTANTIALLY faster... its apparently one of the main goals  8)
[01:15] <topyli> so i've heard
[01:16] <topyli> at work we have a beta but it's on a windows box so i can't really compare
[01:16] <|trey|> topyli: install the Beta on Ubuntu  8)
[01:17] <|trey|> If its ok for business, its ok for home use  :)
[01:17] <topyli> naah. at some point i stopped using betas for production. i guess i'm old :)
[01:17] <|trey|> at work we have a beta but it's on a windows box so i can't really compare
[01:18] <|trey|> I'm confused.
[01:18] <|trey|> Ubuntu itself is a beta  :/
[01:18] <topyli> |trey|: it's not my box.
[01:18] <topyli> |trey|: sure, and i used unstable for ages :)
[01:18] <joem> its at rc status actually :)
[01:18] <|trey|> ...ok, so why not use a beta OO?
[01:19] <|trey|> joem: to me, beta = anything prior to release.
[01:19] <littlepaul> what about daily ubuntu iso?
[01:19] <topyli> |trey|: i don't know where the line has been drawn. some apps seem to be more scary to me than others :)
[01:19] <|trey|> littlepaul: wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[01:19] <topyli> anyway, the windows box at work is a public playground. people install the weirdest things on it
[01:20] <|trey|> Seems like it would be my fav box in the place  8)
[01:20] <littlepaul> trey: thx
[01:21] <topyli> |trey|: hehe. it's a windows box though. you'd probably stay overnight and put unstable on it :)
[01:21] <|trey|> topyli: eh... most of the apps I use can be installed on Winblows too... its the primary requirement for software I use  :)
[01:22] <|trey|> I don't use Windows at home... but if I have to use it, I can still use the same old apps  :)
[01:23] <topyli> i have a win98 box here at home
[01:24] <|trey|> topyli: My Step Dad and Mom have XP Home  :/
[01:24] <topyli> it has office and acrobat that's about it
[01:24] <|trey|> I don't like MSOffice... although it is faster  :/
[01:24] <topyli> my mother-in-law has xp home as well. at least she calls more often that way :)
[01:26] <|trey|> Keep trying to get my Mom to use GNOME etc... but blah, most of her games run on Microsoft, and she does little else... Step Dad wants to use the same thing as his work...
[01:27] <schalke> hi. I have a question regarding on network-confguration. I installed Ubuntu on a notebook with a PCMCIA Ehethernet Card from 3Com and a USRobotics WLAN-adapter. I could configure my LAN-access via the 3Com card during the installation-process. The WLAN-card appears in the device-manager. I tried to configure the WLAN manually using the option "activation when the system is started". After a reboot of the system I cannot access the LAN via 
[01:27] <schalke> 3Com (it is called eth0). Trying to activate the LAN manually the system refuses my command. I would like to know where I can find documentation regarding the configuration of LAN and WLAN. I have searched the Ubuntu-site, but could not find any document relating to my problem. I would be pleased to get some help on where to search.
[01:27] <topyli> |trey|: yes. "the same thing" is operative. i tried to upgrade to win2000 but my lady ordered me to put the "old thing" back :)
[01:27] <llpamies> How Can I install a mp3 and divix plugin in ubuntu ?
[01:27] <|trey|> topyli: I would leave a girl before I installed anything using FAT :/
[01:28] <crimsun> llpamies: add universe package sources to /etc/apt/sources.list (or use synaptic), then install gstreamer0.8-mad
[01:28] <|trey|> llpamies: add universe, and apt-get install gstreamer0.8-mad for mp3... dvix is a little more complicated  :/
[01:28] <topyli> |trey|: heh. win98 is not that bad as long as it's strictly a client (no files on it etc.), and you don't install too many apps and games
[01:28] <ondrej> could somebody add http://archive.ubuntu.cz/cdimage/release/...  to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/download/ ?
[01:28] <topyli> hell, that does sound pretty bad
[01:29] <ondrej> or who should I contact?
[01:29] <|trey|> topyli: eh, I wouldn't date someone that made me stick to it  :/
[01:29] <|trey|> ondrej: bad idea...
[01:29] <topyli> |trey|: well, that way she has her own box in the other room and i can play with linux
[01:29] <|trey|> Choice = confusion.
[01:30] <topyli> |trey|: i'm the same way. thus, i have the same lady for the Nth year =)
[01:30] <|trey|> topyli: I can handle NTFS being around... FAT sucks though... no security.
[01:31] <joem> ondrej, you could either file a bug or post to one of the lists
[01:31] <topyli> |trey|: it doesn't need security. it's the _client_. all files are on my linux box, and the win box is connected to nothing but the linux box
[01:32] <topyli> |trey|: note that this is my home, i wouldn't deploy win98 anywhere else :)
[01:32] <|trey|> topyli: eh, ok... still would leave her before I had a win98 box around though  :/
[01:33] <topyli> you haven't met her have you? ;)
[01:33] <|trey|> I just hate the OS that much
[01:33] <|trey|> topyli: this is a valid point... I haven't... but I don't believe there would be an exception  ;)
[01:34] <|trey|> I'm pretty adament about certain things  :)
[01:34] <topyli> a man of honor
[01:34] <llpamies> |trey|:  How do you do for play divx ?
[01:35] <|trey|> "leave me, or use a decent OS", if she cares that much, then peace... else she gets a decent OS  :/
[01:35] <|trey|> llpamies: supposedly, gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg should handle it, but it doesn't... 
[01:36] <|trey|> llpamies: mplayer does, but you have to go to apt-get.org... find the source stating "marillat" that contains w32codecs, add that to /etc/apt/sources.list, apt-get update && apt-get install ffmpeg w32codecs mplayer-nogui
[01:37] <|trey|> Or get a GUI... but I just run it from CLI  :/
[01:37] <|trey|> mplayer-686 is prolly what you want if you would rather have a GUI
[01:37] <topyli> totem handles it too but you need totem-xine (and the codecs). totem-gstreamer is installed by default
[01:37] <sepheebear> im convinced that totem-gstreamer is pretty useless at this point. it never works with anything I need it to
[01:38] <|trey|> topyli: Xine sucks  :/
[01:38] <|trey|> sepheebear: same here... hence mplayer...
[01:38] <sepheebear> totem-xine's still 100x better than gstreamer
[01:38] <|trey|> mplayer > gstreamer > xine
[01:38] <miqorz> mplayer > xine > gstreamer
[01:38] <|trey|> Xine just sucks at movies right now  :/
[01:38] <sepheebear> mplayer is the trusty workhorse
[01:39] <|trey|> Gstreamer just sucks at movies right now  :/
[01:39] <topyli> well, mplayer is the best for sure.
[01:39] <|trey|> gstreamer is technically supperior to xine and mplayer... just not practical today...
[01:40] <|trey|> gstreamer0.8-ffmeg needs serious work/more codecs...
[01:40] <topyli> gstreamer is going to be very cool for gnome people one day. but this is not the day yet :(
[01:40] <sepheebear> gstreamer is all dressed up with nowhere to go
[01:41] <|trey|> sepheebear: it just lacks the codecs... hence my last comment  :)
[01:41] <sepheebear> there you go!
[01:41] <|trey|> Xine kinda just sucks in general though... it just happens to work today  :/
[01:42] <sepheebear> media player sans codecs = nothing more than a high tech picture frame... pretty useless
[01:42] <|trey|> gstreamer = future today... I talked about my stance on that earlier though
[01:42] <|trey|> If its not ready, it shouldn't be used.
[01:43] <tolle_> hmms, unrar isnt available in ubuntu's default package tree?
[01:43] <sepheebear> but it's leading us in a pretty cool direction, dont get me wrong, just not there yet
[01:43] <|trey|> Gives it negative mind share amoungst untechnical people...
[01:43] <|trey|> sepheebear: when I can install 'gstreamer0.8-w32codecs gstreamer0.8-ffmpeg', I will be a happy man  :)
[01:44] <sepheebear> now if only i could totally wrap my brain around what the hell exactly gstreamer does/is, i'd be a genius
[01:45] <|trey|> sepheebear: its a common media architechture... 
[01:45] <|trey|> easy access for apps to codecs basically...
[01:46] <topyli> inspired, i tried to install mplayer-k7 but it's not installable right now from marillat :(
[01:46] <|trey|> topyli: k6
[01:46] <sepheebear> all those sinks and spiders get my brain all tangled
[01:47] <tolle_> I'm sure I'm not the onlyone who prefers Epiphany over Mozilla Firefox?
[01:47] <|trey|> tolle_: I believe you are  ;)
[01:47] <|trey|> my primary reason: Firefox runs on every OS  :/
[01:47] <tolle_> he, rather annoying. do a whois tolle and whois tolle_
[01:48] <tolle_> yeah, but doesn't follow the basic look on any of them.
[01:48] <sepheebear> why is it, i could play iTunes aac files with gst from the command line yet rhythmbox refuses to acknowledge they exist?
[01:48] <|trey|> tolle_: does actually... you just need a simular icon theme  :/
[01:48] <joem> sepheebear, its an issue with rhythmbox
[01:48] <tolle_> |trey|: I have one
[01:48] <topyli> mplayer-k6 is not installable either. libggi2 and libungif4g versions conflict
[01:48] <joem> tell them about it, because other people have had it and they shrug it off
[01:49] <|trey|> sepheebear: because whatever you used supports it, gstreamer does not.
[01:49] <topyli> |trey|: ^^
[01:49] <|trey|> topyli: ugh... testing repo and include universe.
[01:49] <sepheebear> really? i didnt know that. i was under the impression that gst was doing all the file munching and rhythmbox was just a front end
[01:49] <joem> |trey|, read his comment before responding
[01:49] <sepheebear> i stand corrected
[01:49] <sepheebear> thanx
[01:50] <|trey|> sepheebear: you are correct.
[01:50] <joem> sepheebear, rhythmbox has issues with importing them iirc
[01:50] <|trey|> joem: I did.
[01:50] <joem> |trey|, he can play them with gstreamer, just not with rhythmbox
[01:50] <|trey|> joem: Rhythmbox is just a frontend... media is handled via gstreamer  :/
[01:50] <|trey|> joem: ugh
[01:51] <joem> because rhythmbox has issues with importing certain files
[01:51] <will> is gstreamer any good?
[01:51] <will> i use xine
[01:51] <|trey|> joem: I know of no CLI app that uses gstreamer  :/
[01:51] <joem> uh, gst-play
[01:51] <topyli> |trey|: with testing, libfaad2 version conflicts :)
[01:51] <|trey|> joem: oh
[01:51] <|trey|> topyli: ugh... it installed here, thats what I did... dunno whats wrong... cept that I used -nogui  :/
[01:52] <topyli> i wonder if i have some strange libs from unstable sneaked in
[01:52] <topyli> oh, i have nogui here atm, works fine
[01:52] <sepheebear> i was able at one point in my debian install, able to import only a few aac's into the rhythmbox library after i had installed a gstreamer aac plugin that i had converted over from an rpm, but it stopped working all of a sudden then refused to work anymore
[01:52] <topyli> jus thought i'd get rid of totem and install mplayer with a gui :)
[01:53] <tolle_> sepheebear: maybe rhythmbox uses gstreamer-0.8 and you got 0.6 installed with the aac codecs or something
[01:53] <|trey|> topyli: I haven't used mplayer's gui in a long time...
[01:53] <|trey|> Used kmplayer once  :/
[01:53] <topyli> |trey|: me neither. thought i'd give it a look
[01:53] <tolle_> |trey|: totem has the nicest gui for a video player.
[01:54] <sepheebear> it was from one of those rpm repository sites and i believe iirc that it was gst-0.8
[01:54] <|trey|> topyli: I didn't like the interface, doesn't fit in with anything...
[01:54] <topyli> tolle_: sure, it fits into gnome
[01:54] <tolle_> topyli: like a glove
[01:54] <|trey|> tolle_: I prefer HelixPlayer, but ok  :)
[01:54] <joem> sepheebear, might want to see if anybody is awake in #rhythmbox on gimpnet
[01:54] <topyli> |trey|: that's the problem with most media players in all os's
[01:54] <tolle_> |trey|: HelixPlayer almost looks the same..
[01:54] <|trey|> tolle_: preference is mainly due to HelixPlayer running on w32 boxen  :/
[01:55] <topyli> but helix/real doesn't play everything
[01:55] <tolle_> |trey|: He, I got no w32 boxes..
[01:55] <sepheebear> its ok now though, mpd plays just about all my aac's without a hitch, except the copy protected ones
[01:55] <tolle_> btw, is anyone keeping up with the current gstreamer video updates?
[01:55] <|trey|> tolle_: not the point... if it runs on w32, I don't have to learn a new UI when I am stuck at a w32 box...
[01:56] <tolle_> |trey|: ah, I wont either..
[01:56] <|trey|> Just install the app I like
[01:56] <|trey|> s/like/am used to/
[01:56] <tolle_> |trey|: I got a 10mb connection. I just run all the apps over ssh
[01:56] <sepheebear> joem: doesnt seem like a soul's in there
[01:56] <tolle_> |trey|: not movie players, but the rest.
[01:56] <topyli> ok, screw the gui. i'm not going to spend my day trying to install a stupid gui for a stupid media player on my stupid computer
[01:57] <|trey|> tolle_: I use nothing that can't be installed on many OS's  :/
[01:57] <|trey|> topyli: haha
[01:57] <tolle_> |trey|: you can run the entire gnome suit on windows.
[01:57] <tolle_> |trey|: cygwin
[01:57] <tolle_> |trey|: Not realy uptodate. But some older versions works.
[01:57] <|trey|> tolle_: cygwin/x is a little too troublesome imo  :/
[01:57] <tolle_> |trey|: he, realy true
[01:58] <topyli> |trey|: hey, upgrading mplayer-nogui and mencoder doesn't work either. i think the repositories are in a flux currently
[01:58] <|trey|> Why run it in what amounts to a virtual machine when you can run it natively?
[01:59] <|trey|> I don't need a DE if I'm running Explorer already... why install it?
[01:59] <sepheebear> mplayer and mpd are my media suite of choice. they play just about everything i throw at em... even the broken files
[01:59] <topyli> what is mpd?
[01:59] <tolle_> |trey|: I'm just a sucker for the generic "feel" of nice gtk2 apps.
[01:59] <superted> word
[01:59] <|trey|> Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, Gaim - all the basic apps work natively...
[01:59] <sepheebear> music player daemon
[02:00] <sm> Hey guys... does anyone use a Sony Picturebook C1VFK with a working XF86Config-4 file I could have??
[02:00] <|trey|> tolle_: get a gtk based theme for explorer  :)
[02:00] <topyli> sepheebear: hmmm. and that differs from a standalone player how?
[02:01] <topyli> remote juju?
[02:01] <joem> it has many different frontends
[02:01] <tolle_> btw, how can i get the user "tolle" to logoff freenode. It is my, and connected from my ip.
[02:01] <sepheebear> yeah that's what i like about it
[02:01] <joem> tolle_, are you registered?
[02:01] <topyli> i'll have a look
[02:01] <|trey|> tolle_: /msg nickserv help
[02:01] <tolle_> joem: yeah
[02:02] <joem>  /msg nickserv ghost
[02:02] <|trey|> topyli: /msg nickserv release 
[02:02] <|trey|> tolle_: even
[02:02] <|trey|> tolle_: so /msg nickerv release tolle
[02:03] <sepheebear> just needed to compile in aac support and a little configuring, in less than 20 mins i was finally able to play all my files vs. about 4-5 hrs
[02:03] <tolle_> doh, so long since i logged in with the pw that the registration got removed.
[02:03] <|trey|>  /msg nickserv release tolle passwd
[02:03] <sepheebear> ...messing around with rhythmbox
[02:03] <|trey|> tolle_: thats bad
[02:03] <topyli> sepheebear: hmm. the gnome mpc client looks useful
[02:04] <tolle_> |trey|: he, yeah. but not realy a big problem.
[02:04] <|trey|> mpc?
[02:04] <topyli> mpd
[02:04] <sepheebear> yeah and good for me, it's actually readable unlike xmms imho
[02:04] <tolle_> |trey|: however, shouldnt it sortoff get automaticly logged of after a few days?
[02:05] <|trey|> tolle_: eventually it will... you should remember the password.
[02:05] <sepheebear> mpd is the daemon and gmpc is one of the frontends for it
[02:05] <tolle_> |trey|: yeah, to log in with it so that the registration doesn't get whiped.
[02:05] <sepheebear> http://www.musicpd.org/
[02:06] <topyli> sepheebear: looks good. i can log out and the lady can log in without disturbing the playback. i think i'll give it a try
[02:07] <sepheebear> trey: i second that emotion
[02:07] <|trey|> gmpc looks very very very very nice  :)
[02:07] <sepheebear> yeah that's what's so cool about it
[02:08] <topyli> no ubuntu packages
[02:08] <sepheebear> i reboot while music's playing and when the daemon loads after reboot, it picks up the song right from where it left off, i consider that awesome!
[02:08] <play> hi everyone ! Ubuntu : Excellent distro ! Congratulations !
[02:08] <|trey|> Rhythmbox's Small Display is just as nice though  ;)
[02:08] <|trey|> play: we're proud of it  8)
[02:08] <tolle_> btw, has anyone tested dashboard recently?
[02:08] <sepheebear> play: Ubuntu's the greatest!!
[02:09] <play> i would like to know, how you proceed to use gksudo instead of gksu by default ? 
[02:09] <|trey|> sepheebear: *will be* the greatest... hoary looks like it will be  :)
[02:09] <|trey|> play: ya just type your password  :)
[02:09] <play> yep ! Ubuntu's the greatest ! ;)
[02:09] <sepheebear> yeah that gksu/gksudo had me for a while too
[02:10] <Mitario> lo everyone
[02:11] <play> trey > :) how to use it under Sarge ? (i have Sarge on my laptop)
[02:11] <will> does anyone know how to set up the energy saver mode for the monitor to black out? im using ACPI
[02:11] <topyli> i think i'll go out for a beer or eight. no use spending my saturday with you geeks :)
[02:11] <|trey|> sudo -s = root terminal... gksudo = root gui... thats all ya gotta remember  :)
[02:11] <play> i configured sudo as ubuntu sudo configuration
[02:12] <|trey|> play: never used gksudo on anything other then Ubuntu  :(
[02:12] <Muttley> haha, that mail from Richard Morrell on the mailing list is funny :)
[02:12] <sepheebear> i think energy saver for the monitor is in the screensaver controls
[02:12] <|trey|> Muttley: linkage?
[02:12] <Muttley> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/006532.html
[02:13] <play> trey > thanks for this information. why ?
[02:13] <sepheebear> will: yeah it's dpms that you're looking for right?
[02:13] <will> sepheebear: most probably!
[02:15] <will> sepheebear: how do you control it, as well as things like hd spin down times?
[02:16] <SamBozo> I totally agree with Richard, I was showing ubuntu to an elderly (60's) lady here yesterday.. needless to say I'm not going to have to put 98 back on her machine
[02:16] <tolle_> will: the screen to black out, in gnome?
[02:16] <SamBozo> personally I don't mind, but if u want to spread beyond the (what ever the phrase is today) kwel folks .. it ain't helping
[02:16] <will> tolle_:yes
[02:16] <tolle_> will: It's a part of xscreensaver, just tell it to turn off the screen after a while.
[02:17] <sepheebear> no clue on the hd spindown times, im running a desktop? if u find out let me know im looking at some laptops for Ubuntu in the near future
[02:17] <tolle_> will: hdd spindown is controlled with hdparm, atleast thats what i usualy use on laptops.
[02:17] <will> ah good, yes i had it set, but disabled xscreensaver!
[02:17] <SamBozo> I'm not going  meant now going to have to
[02:17] <tolle_> sepheebear: hdparm fixes them
[02:17] <play> on my Sarge (i can not install ubuntu on my laptop for professional reasons :-(), i configured a user account who have root privileges with sudo and the problem is that gnome's menu start "gksu -u root"... 
[02:17] <will> tolle_: thanks
[02:17] <sepheebear> really? hdparm whoa
[02:18] <joem> play, just change the launchers to run gksudo
[02:18] <|trey|> Muttley: so he takes offense to the naked (but covered) people?
[02:18] <tolle_> hdparm -S is the option, check the man page.
[02:18] <play> joem > the launchers ? where is it please ?
[02:18] <Muttley> |trey|: yeah, well he is " Richard Morrell - Linux Evangelist, Award winning founder and co-author of SmoothWall, Sponsor of OpenSource development projects." ;)
[02:19] <|trey|> Muttley: I could care less who he is... they are covered  :/
[02:19] <will> one other question: do you know how to disable DMA on (hdd) i get massive dilays when it tries to enable UDMA mode on this drive
[02:19] <Muttley> guy deserves (or wants) attention :)
[02:19] <joem> play, right click -> properties on the launchers in the menu that run with gksu
[02:19] <joolz> hmm, sound works, but no sound in gaim :|
[02:19] <joem> will, /etc/hdparm.conf
[02:19] <Muttley> |trey|: I think firewalling off his users was a bit lame :)
[02:20] <joem> will, then make sure the hdparm service runs on startup
[02:20] <Muttley> I think it's all quite amusing ;)
[02:20] <|trey|> Muttley: indeed... for no nudity  :/
[02:20] <play> joem > ah ok :) Thanks for this precision. do you know a solution which apply "gksudo" for all applications of the menu ?
[02:20] <Muttley> |trey|: wonder if he firewalls off underwear vendors too ;)
[02:20] <|trey|> If one of the chicks was spread eagle + nekkid, I might agree... thats not very professional... but they show nothing  :(
[02:21] <joem> play, why on earth would you want to run everything with sudo?
[02:21] <will> joem: what if its a kernel thing?
[02:21] <|trey|> joem: because its what Ubuntu does apparently  :/
[02:21] <tolle_> ESR is always mentioned as the "creator" of fetchmail, he has to have worked on larger projects to?
[02:21] <sepheebear> trey: now that's "Open" Source
[02:21] <joem> heh, not quite
[02:22] <|trey|> sepheebear: haha  :)
[02:22] <joem> will, I don't know whats at the root of your problems, but you can use hdparm to turn off dma
[02:22] <will> joem: thanks
[02:22] <|trey|> I like the image damnit.. but I guess, if more complain, they should put more clothes on and make another... the message is curtainly there either way...
[02:23] <|trey|> the image = the logo with real people instead of shapes  8)
[02:23] <play> joem > for ease-of-use :) i'm the only user of my laptop and i enjoy very well Ubuntu sudo configuration
[02:24] <|trey|> play: please change your send charector.. '>' to me means only "greater than" and I read it as such  :/
[02:24] <will> joem: i have all DMA working disks, except hdd, so when i startup, i have like 5 minute waits while the kernel etc tries to enable dma, but it cant, errors like DMA TIMING ERROR....
[02:24] <joem> play, so running the webbrowser as root somehow = ease of use?
[02:25] <sepheebear> imho just lose the shirtless guy and get some hair on that chocolate-skin lady's head
[02:25] <play> trey : sorry :( i did'nt know
[02:25] <tolle_> play: the basic rule is, never run anything with higher permissions then required to do the task.
[02:25] <|trey|> joem: I hope he is talking only about System Configuration items  :/
[02:26] <joem> play, you should only change the ones that are already set to run with gksu
[02:26] <joem> you don't(and should never) need to run everything with root privs
[02:26] <play> joem : :) no just the applications which require root privileges (for exemple : gnome tools) not all applications :)
[02:26] <|trey|> joem: he's just trying to make his Debian install more like Ubuntu's  :/
[02:27] <sepheebear> why not just dist-upgrade to warty? 
[02:28] <|trey|> Still not entirely sure what he means by "Professional" reasons... it basically IS Debian, so it would be an easy sell if its a company machine  :/
[02:29] <lenkki_> Hello folks
[02:30] <lenkki_> I have a little problem navigating the wiki, I can't seem to find a page where you can add ideas / suggestions for the next release
[02:30] <joolz> Anyone know a good repository that has mplayer + dependencies?
[02:30] <sepheebear> that Morrell dude has a point
[02:31] <play> ok, thanks for informations. see u and have a lot of fun ! :) bye
[02:31] <|trey|> sepheebear: The message in the image is fine though... perhaps they need more clothes, but the idea should remain  :/
[02:31] <joolz> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main has dependencies that apt-get won't resolve
[02:32] <|trey|> joolz: I told you to use testing, not unstable!!
[02:32] <joolz> duh. right, sorry
[02:32] <sepheebear> i dunno, to me, i like the image, a little shock at first, but hey, my grandma aint running linux just yet and i think grandpa might actually dig it
[02:33] <sepheebear> i vote keep the image
[02:33] <|trey|> sepheebear: the image is the logo with real people vs shapes... the lack of clothes isn't professional though  :/
[02:35] <sepheebear> Unix needs skin, i get sick of all the the penguins and huxley images after a while
[02:35] <|trey|> the old GDM and wallpaper images should maybe remain default, with the hot chicks as an alternative  :)
[02:36] <|trey|> sepheebear: agreed... thats one complaint from a corporation though... would seem its not acceptable... I say he's a prude, but he says he knew I'd think that  :/
[02:37] <tolle_> Hot chicks? Average I'd say.
[02:37] <sepheebear> you'd think "professional" people would be smart enough to figure out how to change the durn GDM theme, or just hire a geek to make them a "custom" iso with whatever "corporate approved" image they want
[02:37] <|trey|> The images didn't make "junior happy", so I don't think its too risky...
[02:37] <mjr> professional schmofessional, but yeah, as a practical matter, considering how shocked some puritans are, I'd not make that the default
[02:37] <|trey|> tolle_: bah, the blond is hot  :/
[02:38] <tolle_> Realy, I study at a swedish university with over 2/3's girls, I get my fair share of blondes. And I say average.
[02:38] <mkyc-ubuntu> from a corporate perspective i have to say sure they can but theyre not ever going to touch something like that for a start
[02:38] <sepheebear> i say, as a professional myself, "lighten up!"
[02:38] <will> tolle_: not so many swedish girls are blonde though
[02:38] <|trey|> tolle_: Then I need to move to where you live...
[02:38] <joem> do corporations really just throw stock installs on all of their boxes with out any sort of changes?
[02:38] <tolle_> will: No, but quite a few.
[02:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> joem - no
[02:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> but theyre not running linux boxes either
[02:39] <will> i live in stockholm and most swedes bleach their hair!
[02:39] <joem> some are :)
[02:39] <sepheebear> i see more professionals at the nudie bar after hours than i do at any church
[02:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> true some are 
[02:39] <|trey|> If the blonde is average is sweeden, I'm moving there asap.
[02:39] <|trey|> s/is/in
[02:39] <will> swedish girls are very fit i have to say though
[02:39] <mkyc-ubuntu> but semi naked or naked chicks as a default desktop are not going to increase take up by corporate customers of a distro
[02:39] <tolle_> I live in Ume, up north. And dang.
[02:40] <tolle_> like 2 good looking girls per ugly guy.
[02:40] <will> ume? is nice, and lule?!
[02:40] <will> cold though
[02:40] <xcasex> tolle_; poor you ;_;
[02:40] <xcasex> tolle_; i used to live up there
[02:40] <tolle_> mkyc-ubuntu: this the year 2004, the us of a is probably the only place where that image would be concidered offencive.
[02:41] <tolle_> realy, I do not know anyone, undependant of age here around that would find it offencive.
[02:41] <xcasex> tolle_; they censor the DOVE soap commercial in the us.
[02:41] <will> is debian swedish then?
[02:41] <mjr> tolle_, well, there are some mid-eastern countries where it probably would be...
[02:41] <tolle_> Nope.
[02:41] <sepheebear> maybe Ubuntu's just not as "corporate" as they would have it.... ahh finally, Linux for us humans who aint afraid to take it off in front of other people!
[02:41] <tolle_> mjr: yeah thats true.
[02:41] <xcasex> sepheebear; lol
[02:42] <mkyc-ubuntu> tolle_,  i'm in australia and i can say without a word of a lie it would offensive in any corporate environment i can think of
[02:42] <|trey|> tolle_: I agree... I don't think many corporations would consider it risky either... but eh  :/
[02:42] <mkyc-ubuntu> my company WOULD sack anyone who used an image like that as a wallpaper
[02:42] <|trey|> Like I said, that dude is a fucking prude!
[02:42] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: eh, they have clothes damnit
[02:42] <mjr> yes he is
[02:42] <tolle_> mkyc-ubuntu: but they arnt doing anything. its just a friendly picture of some people.
[02:42] <mkyc-ubuntu> true
[02:42] <mkyc-ubuntu> i dont make the rules
[02:43] <mjr> sadly, sometimes prudes have some influence
[02:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> go figure 
[02:43] <xcasex> the problem with the internet is that there's no way we can verify that the people nagging about the artwork are really employed at a company or if they are jsut venting their prejudice
[02:43] <tolle_> mkyc-ubuntu: no i know, im just saying that its pretty silly how up tight some groups are.
[02:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> my boss is legendary for his affairs yet semi naked images are a sacking offence....
[02:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> oh i agree
[02:43] <mkyc-ubuntu> some people need to lighten up i think
[02:43] <sepheebear> why not keep the "risque" iso for us and sell another vanilla "suit and tie" for the corporate muckety-mucks?
[02:44] <mkyc-ubuntu> and its only a damn picture
[02:44] <mkyc-ubuntu> why not use a basic boring image as default and have a risque choice?
[02:44] <mkyc-ubuntu> solves everyones problem
[02:44] <richnrockvillemd> From a complete novice at Linux and who just installed Ubuntu on a laptop under VPC, I find that the "evangilists" sure have a short memory. I like the logon screen. It is not sexual and at my age, I am definately not a prude...... If the Ubuntu developers do their stuff as the other distributions have done theirs, then nothing will stand out. What a bunch of Pus##ies.  Get with the program and worry about the technical d
[02:44] <|trey|> sepheebear: the old image was fine... I even like the new one's message... just put them in more clothes, and everyone is happy  :/
[02:45] <mkyc-ubuntu> yep i agree
[02:45] <tolle_> |trey|: yeah, it could be done in a smoother way.
[02:45] <richnrockvillemd> I want to put in the cdrom and let it go, eventually bringing me up to a familiar gui that I can use..
[02:45] <mkyc-ubuntu> more clothes and no one will complain
[02:45] <sepheebear> speak for yourself, the guy in the picture looks pretty darn happy to me
[02:45] <tolle_> mkyc-ubuntu: but the picture wouldnt look as good.
[02:46] <richnrockvillemd> as I said, what a bunch of P... ies..
[02:46] <opi> heh
[02:46] <tolle_> realy, it would look alot worse with some ugly shirts and stuff on.
[02:46] <|trey|> I would be too... 2 nekkid girls  :/
[02:46] <opi> why, oh why are Ubuntu res. so sloow :/
[02:46] <|trey|> tolle_: I don't think more clothes will take anything from the message.
[02:46] <tolle_> |trey|: no, realy not.
[02:47] <xcasex> tolle_; makes you wonder really, do they object to united colours of benetton commercials as well.?
[02:47] <tolle_> |trey|: but would it look as "good" from a artistic point of view? I say put on clothes. just saying that it would realy look as good.
[02:47] <mkyc-ubuntu> suprispingly many people do
[02:47] <richnrockvillemd> Many of my friends who are Unix junkies don't know what clean clothes are, anyway :)
[02:47] <sepheebear> how bout they take another pic with them all in Ubuntu logo shirts, happy now?
[02:47] <|trey|> Image just clarifies what the logo is meant to mean... holding hands, community...
[02:47] <mkyc-ubuntu> richnrockvillemd, yes but ubuntu isnt aiming itself at your unix junkie friends is it?
[02:47] <opi> geeez, is there a flamewar about Ubunt's login screen?
[02:47] <xcasex> opi yeah
[02:47] <tolle_> opi: no, just a friendly discussion
[02:47] <sepheebear> trey: ...and skin! ;-)
[02:48] <opi> gosh
[02:48] <opi> I must say, I like it
[02:48] <xcasex> opi some people are really tightly wound upp
[02:48] <xcasex> *up
[02:48] <opi> looks cute and friendly
[02:48] <opi> but I guess you can't staisfy everyone :/
[02:48] <xcasex> ^^^^ amen
[02:48] <mkyc-ubuntu> richard morell has a very good point, its something that should be carefully read and considered
[02:48] <richnrockvillemd> Exactly, I am not a unix junkie. But the people who are so adamnantly opposed to the logo are mostly the unix junkies who are probably sitting before their computer in their week old underwear if any at all :)
[02:48] <tolle_> opi: yeah, realy warm and friendly.
[02:49] <|trey|> opi: some dude on the mailing lists said its not proffesional... many appear to agree... most agree that the image should be changed so as to not lose users...
[02:49] <mg> *i* think the new image is great for glossies - leaflets, fancy presentations etc - but it doesn't work on the computer. it's the sort of image that gets very tiring after a short period of time.
[02:49] <mkyc-ubuntu> |trey|, the problem is that richard is not just some guy
[02:49] <|trey|> mg: not so much... I don't log in that much  :/
[02:49] <sepheebear> the more i look at it the more i like it... just needs a userlist so i dont have to type my username in all the time
[02:49] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: to me he is just some guy  :/
[02:50] <mkyc-ubuntu> he carries a lot of weight and attention and its people like him who need to support the project
[02:50] <|trey|> Some guy in a company that thought it was offensive... doesn't matter who he is...
[02:50] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes but to many others Richard is an outspoken linux supporter and evangelilst
[02:50] <|trey|> Like I said, doesn't matter... still upset him  :/
[02:50] <mg> i wouldn't even mind an image like that on the front of the CD-ROM cover.
[02:50] <richnrockvillemd> So are you all going to let one person dictate to the rest of y ou all, Like I said, bunch of Pu##ies..
[02:51] <mkyc-ubuntu> have you all read his post?
[02:51] <richnrockvillemd> ps: just some of you :)
[02:51] <|trey|> richnrockvillemd: why leave *some* unpleased when you *can* please all on a matter?
[02:51] <solsTiCe> mkyc-ubuntu: where ?
[02:51] <xcasex> so uh, what has richard morell done and why should we listen to him?
[02:51] <opi> I just went to other room and show this login screen to my girlfriend
[02:51] <tolle_> anyways, off for some beer.
[02:51] <mkyc-ubuntu> if not then i suggest you do so, his comments are vey usefull
[02:51] <sepheebear> true, it's be an awesome CD cover image
[02:51] <mkyc-ubuntu> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2004-October/006532.html
[02:51] <mkyc-ubuntu> thats the post we are talking about
[02:51] <opi> she said it's nice photo and it has good connection with loho
[02:51] <solsTiCe> mkyc-ubuntu: thanks
[02:52] <richnrockvillemd> No one, can please everyone.
[02:52] <opi> anyway, Im goign to kill myself
[02:52] <sepheebear> seems like it's a little chilly in that room for the blonde
[02:52] <jld> Hello
[02:52] <opi> ~4kb/s from Ubuntu's archive :(
[02:52] <tolle_> opi: where do you live?
[02:53] <|trey|> richnrockvillemd: on this we can though... corporations will be paying the devels wages... if they say its not professional, it can't be considered for a default, end of story.
[02:53] <opi> tolle_: Poland
[02:53] <daniels> opi: it's reasonably quick from Australia, and nothing else is, trust me ;)
[02:53] <opi> tolle_: other servers ain't any better
[02:53] <tolle_> opi: try ftp.acc.umu.se as a mirror instead.
[02:53] <opi> tolle_: I'll do that, wait :)
[02:53] <mkyc-ubuntu> richard is angy because he has pushed the distro to corporate clients, clients who now have installed a distro that when its upgraded gets that image as its login... it might not mean much to anyone not working in a corprate environment but to those who does its gives us chills
[02:53] <tolle_> opi: acc has a rather wide pipe.
[02:53] <daniels> richnrockvillemd: please try to stay constructive and on-topic.
[02:53] <sepheebear> politics and bull-pucky
[02:54] <|trey|> daniels: he was on topic... technically  :)
[02:54] <mkyc-ubuntu> so linux doesnt want corporate desktops?
[02:54] <richnrockvillemd> If one picture is going to ruin a newbies image of Linux, then they are pretty shallow and their mind is already made up to defeat something, they were probably pre disposed to not like something before they had a chance to look at the technical capabilities of it.
[02:54] <daniels> |trey|: yes, but I haven't seen anything much constructive for a while
[02:54] <mkyc-ubuntu> richnrockvillemd, do you work in corporate IT ?
[02:55] <tseng> jdub: yeah maybe tommorow @ tomboy
[02:55] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: it certainly does. Hence why I said it should just be changed... the image as it is now + clothes.
[02:55] <jld> sorry, i don't speak english.
[02:55] <jld> I finish installing ubuntu and, when reinitiating the PC, loading has thrown me "GRUB..."
[02:55] <sepheebear> richnrockvillemd: i second that. excuses are easy to come by for any loser looking for one
[02:55] <jld> "GRUB loading, please wait... Error 17"
[02:55] <richnrockvillemd> I have several clients who are mainly windows people and have asked me to look into linux. I would have not hesitation in giving them a rc as they are not prudes..
[02:55] <|trey|> daniels: I don't think I have seen anything constructive from him at all... just pointing out the part he was doing right  ;)
[02:55] <jld> some suggestion?
[02:55] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes and it makes the job of people like me who spend our time pushing linux to our employers and boards that much harder
[02:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> if that image is now the default i cannot show ubuntu to my board like i have been pushing to do
[02:56] <xcasex> tseng; have you given any thought to adding best & beagle to the repo?
[02:56] <tseng> xcasex: no
[02:56] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: I agree it should be changed. Ubuntu is about community, and the new image depicts that better then the logo... but the image should be more professional.
[02:56] <tseng> a few people are working on beagle already
[02:56] <xcasex> tseng; aight
[02:56] <xcasex> wicked
[02:56] <mkyc-ubuntu> i agree |trey|
[02:56] <tseng> what is best
[02:57] <mjg59> Begle is awkward because it needs CVS DBUS
[02:57] <richnrockvillemd> I have installed it on a machine, told it to autologon, just like their windows machines do and they are very pleased. They never get to the logon screen. Works for me and themm
[02:57] <xcasex> tseng; the ui component of beagle
[02:57] <mkyc-ubuntu> a few more clothes and everyone is happy, i think its a great concept
[02:57] <tseng> xcasex: ah.
[02:57] <mkyc-ubuntu> richnrockvillemd, no corporate PC EVER auto logs on
[02:57] <mkyc-ubuntu> never
[02:57] <yuval> Hi. How can I get back the Debian's menu in GNOME? I want it for all the games or KDE apps my family want...
[02:57] <sepheebear> okay, take the image off the login and make it into a screensaver! that way they wont catch on so quick and will have a chance to see the merits of the desktop before their corporate sanctum is invaded
[02:58] <mkyc-ubuntu> which explains my point - i dont want to be rud but its impossible to understand what goes on in that level without understranding it
[02:58] <opi> tolle_: d'oh, it's not mutch faster :(
[02:58] <tolle_> opi: strange..
[02:58] <opi> tolle_: I guess my ISP have a bad day
[02:58] <tolle_> opi: probably.
[02:58] <|trey|> yuval: just install Debian's 'menu' package.
[02:58] <richnrockvillemd> Small business's pc, almost all of mine do because they want it to just work, they don't hav eto log on to their ibm selectric typewriters and their computers are just an extension of their work desk.
[02:58] <opi> tolle_: I should get around ~40kb/s
[02:58] <yuval> menu is already the newest version.
[02:58] <|trey|> yuval: its not the debian version though  :/
[02:58] <mkyc-ubuntu> yes richnrockvillemd but thats not how corporates work
[02:59] <|trey|> yuval: else you would get a new menu called "Debian"  :/
[02:59] <yuval> |trey|: OK, I'll try it...
[02:59] <|trey|> yuval: failing that, you could just add the apps?
[02:59] <richnrockvillemd> Most of my friends who are "corporate" run windows and your correct, they log into a domain and require passwords. but the small 2-3 person offices normally don't run domains.
[03:00] <|trey|> "Add new item to list"
[03:00] <|trey|> richnrockvillemd: no one is really interested in 2-3 person networks... they might as well be home users  :/
[03:00] <mkyc-ubuntu> richnrockvillemd, correct again but im not talking about 2-3 person offices, im talking 2000-3000
[03:01] <richnrockvillemd> But, they really pay the rent and allow me to buy all the toys that I want. :)
[03:01] <|trey|> richnrockvillemd: when someone says "business use", they usually mean ATLEAST 500-1000 machines.
[03:01] <mkyc-ubuntu> linux winning in a large corporate is a very different thing to 2-3 people
[03:01] <mkyc-ubuntu> red hat owns corporate
[03:01] <mkyc-ubuntu> why?
[03:01] <mkyc-ubuntu> because they would never do something like this, they are trusted
[03:01] <richnrockvillemd> sorry goto go. enjoy
[03:02] <|trey|> mkyc-ubuntu: I can't wait for the Netscape purchases to be included in Ubuntu/Fedora  8)
[03:03] <opi> I bet ancients greeks wouldn't mind to have sutch login screen
[03:03] <opi> ;->
[03:03] <|trey|> Most important thing in corporate networks = LDAP imo... Linux with a good UI for this that *is* Open Source = great thing!
[03:04] <daniels> mjg59: what specifically from D-BUS do you need? we can probably backport it
[03:04] <sepheebear> what's the correct pronunciation for "Ubuntu"? is it something like "oo-boon-too"?
[03:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> most important thing in most corporates is integration
[03:04] <yuval> |trey|: Installing Deibian's menu package, update-menus and restrating gnome-panal didn't work. I think I need Deiban's gnome-panel package... but it 2.6 one.. I'll try it.
[03:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> with stuff like exchange and other apps that are pre-existing
[03:04] <daniels> sepheebear: exactly :)
[03:04] <Lathiat> yuval: your asking for trouble there
[03:04] <|trey|> sepheebear: I've been pronouncing it "uh bun two"
[03:04] <daniels> sepheebear: 'Oooh oooh oooh! Ubuntu!'
[03:04] <sepheebear> ah cool thanx
[03:04] <daniels> Treenaks: oooh-oooh-oooh
[03:04] <mkyc-ubuntu> i go with uh bun two
[03:04] <|trey|> Lathiat: *cough* you're *cough*
[03:05] <Lathiat> so many people catch me on that one :P
[03:05] <Lathiat> |trey|: i thought ti was uh bun tuh 
[03:05] <|trey|> Lathiat: thats harder to say  :/
[03:06] <|trey|> opi: [angryface]   ;)
[03:06] <|trey|> uh bun two sounds better  8)
[03:06] <opi> Ubuntu is quite easy to pronounce in Polish
[03:06] <Lathiat> you bun two :P
[03:06] <yuval> Lathiat: I'll only try it. It should also get rid of "About Ubuntu" from the menu...
[03:06] <Lathiat> yeh i admin i have to try to pronounce uh bun tu
[03:06] <Lathiat> yuval: what are you trying to do?
[03:07] <Lathiat> make your ubuntu look like debian ? :P
[03:08] <yuval> Maybe. I want that all my apps will be in the menu automatically... 
[03:08] <|trey|> yuval: eh... why would you want that gone?
[03:08] <Lathiat> yuval: all mine appear....
[03:08] <opi> |trey|: who's playing?
[03:08] <Lathiat> 2.6/2.8 changed the panel a fair bit
[03:08] <|trey|> Man Utd vs Birmingham... would rather Arsenal, but blah  :/
[03:09] <|trey|> Lathiat: not at all... Ubuntu changed it though  :/
[03:09] <opi> |trey|: Arsenal fan, eh? :)
[03:09] <|trey|> opi: Indeed  :)
[03:09] <opi> |trey|: I like English football overall
[03:09] <|trey|> Lathiat: you haven't used GNOME 2.8 from upstream yet huh?
[03:09] <opi> |trey|: but I enjoy mostly Livepool, Aresnal & Newcastle
[03:09] <sivang> I have installed the RC and now get 2 sound systesm, OSS and ALSA. anybody know a way to remove the OSS ?
[03:10] <Lathiat> |trey|: haha i run gnome cvs on my other machine :)
[03:10] <Lathiat> i wasnt referring to those changes
[03:10] <|trey|> opi: eh... I like any game where England players are included, but support Arsenal  :)
[03:10] <Lathiat> other stuff inside the panel, the adding applets stuff, etc
[03:10] <Lathiat> wonder if 2.8 is in debian experimental or unstable yet
[03:10] <|trey|> Lathiat: oh... I noticed no other changes... care to enlighten me?  :)
[03:10] <Lathiat> |trey|: the add applet to panel dialog etc
[03:10] <yuval> |trey|: Because It just firefox with ubuntu... I have Ubuntu in my bookmarks, and I don't think it should be in the menu. It's not so usefull...
[03:10] <Lathiat> itl probably work but 
[03:10] <|trey|> Lathiat: Its in experimental that I checked... not unstable yet though...
[03:11] <sepheebear> i read somewhere 2.8 wont go into unstable until after sarge is released
[03:11] <opi> so it's ,,two more weeks'' ;)
[03:11] <Lathiat> which'l be the middle of next millenia
[03:11] <lord_chaos> sivang: which oss packages seem to be installed ?
[03:11] <DMJC> how did they create the computer menu in ubuntu linux?
[03:11] <|trey|> Lathiat: eh... the actual panel didn't change though  :/
[03:11] <sivang> lord_chaos : let's see.
[03:11] <Lathiat> |trey|: some internals might have
[03:11] <sepheebear> i've never been able to install 2.8 from experimental successfully
[03:11] <|trey|> I actually don't think I like that UI  :/
[03:12] <Lathiat> hmm my trash applet icons broken
[03:12] <Lathiat> its squashed
[03:12] <|trey|> They aren't grouped at all... makes it harder to find things  :/
[03:12] <Lathiat> it pisses me off not having Run Aplication in the "right" place
[03:12] <|trey|> Lathiat: I saw that with Human... changed back to default icons...
[03:12] <yuval> |trey|: the default homepage for all the browsers is ubuntu. I don't think you should push it so much.
[03:13] <sivang> lord_chaos : ah nevermind :) it's just the OSS emulation layer of ALSA, then guess everything's cool
[03:13] <|trey|> Lathiat: makes more sense to be in Applications imo  :/
[03:13] <sepheebear> that trash applet doesnt seem to be very stable, it disappears on me oftentimes
[03:13] <DMJC> Ihow do you edit that?
[03:13] <Lathiat> it does but im not used to it P:)
[03:13] <|trey|> I just wish there was a system terminal in Computer > System Configuration  :/
[03:13] <lord_chaos> sivang: that's what I suspected ;-)
[03:13] <|trey|> s/system terminal/root terminal/
[03:13] <DMJC> how do you edit the Applications/Actions menus in gnome?
[03:14] <sivang> lord_chaos : Yeah, OSS is long deprecated. No reason to have it's packages installed on something advanced as Ubuntu :)
[03:14] <Lathiat> DMJC: its config file/gconf stuff
[03:14] <DMJC> k
[03:14] <|trey|> I just with System Tools was in Computer actually  :/
[03:14] <DMJC> I started a little project recently
[03:14] <|trey|> Its the only menu that imo makes no sense  :/
[03:14] <DMJC> don't know if anyone else has done the same thing
[03:14] <DMJC> downloads the latest kernel, updates the /usr/src/linux symlink
[03:15] <DMJC> then runs graphical configure, and builds/installs
[03:15] <lord_chaos> What happened to the firefox package in universe ?
[03:15] <DMJC> without opening a terminal once
[03:15] <lord_chaos> Are we back to version 0.9.3 ?
[03:15] <|trey|> lord_chaos: yes, due to java bugs...
[03:15] <solsTiCe> I first deinstalled the linux-images-386 and then installed the k7 image but synaptic reinstall the 386 and i have still two kernel, 
[03:16] <lord_chaos> |trey|: okay thanks
[03:16] <|trey|> solsTiCe: make sure linux-image-2.6-386 isn't installed... 
[03:17] <|trey|> solsTiCe: its a meta package for the latest 386 2.6 kernel... would be the only thing I would think of...
[03:18] <solsTiCe> |trey|: ok but ithink i uninstalled it. by the way it is really a pb to have two kernels, is it?
[03:19] <sepheebear> there's a graphical kernel configure/build tool? i've never made a kernel outside the terminal before. what's the name of the app?
[03:19] <lord_chaos> solsTiCe: it's no problem at all to have several kernels installed, in fact it can be a smart thing to do
[03:20] <DMJC> hmm I found the gconf for applications:///
[03:20] <Lathiat> sepheebear: its in the kernel, make [kg] config
[03:28] <arturaz> hi. do we really need emacs in desktop system? :/
[03:28] <arturaz> 10 mb is kinda much
[03:28] <sepheebear> really? i've usually do menuconfig
[03:28] <lord_chaos> arturaz: i removed it
[03:29] <arturaz> so no emacs at next release? woohoo!
[03:29] <yuval> I have now deian gnome-panel with ubuntu gnome-applets. It works fine.
[03:29] <sepheebear> who uses emacs??? vive la vi!!!!
[03:31] <arturaz> sepheebear, yeah :)
[03:31] <arturaz> vive la vim!
[03:31] <lord_chaos> arturaz: that's not what I meant; I removed it from my own box after the install ;-)
[03:32] <lord_chaos> arturaz: but you're right; I don't think it should be in the default install
[03:32] <sepheebear> oh yeah vim that's right
[03:32] <yuval> Do you think ubuntu should show something like "Deiban menu" after you install a program that doesn't appear in gnome menu? Or always?
[03:32] <arturaz> yuval, no, we don't need that
[03:33] <arturaz> or that should be toggable :)
[03:33] <arturaz> btw guys, will u going to write extensions for controling system?
[03:34] <sepheebear> i find things tend to "get lost" in the debian menu. I prefer to make my own launchers, which keeps me from being too trigger happy with synaptic and keep better tabs on what i install
[03:34] <solsTiCe> |trey|: ok i have done it.
[03:34] <yuval> arturaz: Way not? Don't  you think that a menu with all your apps in the system is more usefull than "About Ubuntu"?
[03:34] <arturaz> yuval, users don't care about xeditres
[03:35] <arturaz> in fact, neither do i =] 
[03:35] <sepheebear> good point
[03:36] <arturaz> however this could be switchable
[03:36] <yuval> but they care about supertux, konqueror or ksomething...
[03:36] <arturaz> yuval, kfoobar ain't gnome :P
[03:36] <arturaz> and ubuntu specializes on gnome
[03:36] <arturaz> get grab one of other zillion distros based on kde
[03:36] <arturaz> and 'bout supertux - we should fix it
[03:37] <arturaz> and add gnome launcher
[03:37] <lord_chaos> yuval: If the menu could be toggable I would maybe consider using it but it's way too much cluttered
[03:37] <lord_chaos> I want Firefoc 1.0pre back !!
[03:37] <lord_chaos> ;-)
[03:37] <arturaz> i found very strange bug with debian's gtk build :/
[03:38] <yuval> lord_chaos: I don't it crash often on my system.
[03:38] <arturaz> ressizing issue in gtk2-perl
[03:38] <Shiv> Hello
[03:38] <arturaz> hi
[03:38] <Shiv> Can I install Ubuntu in a SATA HD ?
[03:38] <aitrus> Shiv: i'm running on a SATA system
[03:38] <lord_chaos> yuval: didn't have those problems, I loved that version
[03:39] <aitrus> Shiv: there were some issues awhile back with the installer not detecting your SATA controller, but those have been resolved in recent releases
[03:39] <Shiv> aitrus, but I have tried with Ubuntu and it don't find any HD's
[03:40] <yuval> arturaz: prefer gnome too, but sometimes I want to use gvim, kde apps or other then gnome-games games...
[03:40] <Shiv> aitrus, Then with RC release there wouldnt be any problem 
[03:40] <Shiv> yeah ?
[03:41] <arturaz> hmm, dudes, you could retune reportbug to use ubuntu bugzilla, couldn't you? :)
[03:41] <aitrus> Shiv: try booting from the cd, then before you choose your language or anything (right after you boot), swap to a shell (alt-f2) and type  "modprobe ata_piix"
[03:41] <lord_chaos> Shiv: why don't you download the daily build ?
[03:42] <WW_> When the release candidate Live CD is ready, will it be added to the UK download site?
[03:43] <daniels> WW_: absolutely
[03:44] <WW_> daniels: OK, thanks.  I had heard it might be available on Friday.
[03:44] <daniels> possibly, yeah
[03:45] <WW_> ...but there is no sign of it.  Not a problem, of course. I was just checking.
[03:46] <andred> Anyone know why fonts looks non-standard on some sites using unusual character codings such as ISO-8859-2? For example, look at this site: http://www.lge.com/ . If you switch to UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 in Firefox the fonts look like normal.
[03:46] <daniels> andred: fonts are hard, let's go shopping
[03:46] <WW_> Is there a Live CD daily build, or is there an earlier version still available somewhere?  I'd like to fire it up on my laptop to see how well it works.
[03:47] <aitrus> is anyone else having issues with nautilus saying there's no blank media in your burner when there is?
[03:47] <daniels> there's a test build at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/warty-live-20041015-20.iso
[03:47] <lord_chaos> WW_: theer isn't a live cd daily build yet
[03:47] <aitrus> it worked fine for me a week or so ago, but doesn't work today...
[03:48] <andred> daniels, Do fonts look bad on www.lge.com for you?
[03:48] <daniels> it may not work.  it may destroy your system and/or your professional life.  be warned. :)
[03:48] <lord_chaos> aitrus: had the same problem today, but I tried another disc ang it worked fine
[03:48] <daniels> andred: yeah
[03:48] <aitrus> lord_chaos: i've tried two discs so far.... =/
[03:48] <WW_> daniels: Thanks again.
[03:49] <lord_chaos> aitrus: yeah it seemed to work better before
[03:49] <daniels> WW_: no worries
[03:49] <andred> daniels, Any ideas on where to file a bug on that? Is fontconfig making a misstake, or firefox?
[03:50] <ygnome> andred: hmm looks fine under debian unstable...
[03:50] <andred> Or is Bitstream Vera broken perhaps
[03:50] <aitrus> lord_chaos: there is a bug open about this
[03:50] <andred> ygnome, What fonts do you have?
[03:50] <aitrus> lord_chaos: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2265
[03:50] <lord_chaos> aitrus: try inserting/ejecting tyhe disc several times. after a few times my disc was detected...very erratic behaviour
[03:50] <DMJC> anyone know where you can get a big windows picture?
[03:50] <lord_chaos> aitrus: thanks
[03:50] <DMJC> the microsoft logo?
[03:50] <ygnome> andred: what am I looking for?
[03:51] <solsTiCe> andred:  my fonts too have a weird look. but it might japanese fonts used to display ascii character ...
[03:51] <ygnome> andred: I have the MS core fonts, rest is pretty much standard.
[03:51] <solsTiCe> andred: the fonts are not nice but i can read easily
[03:51] <andred> solsTiCe, Yeah, it must be something like that.
[03:52] <andred> solsTiCe, Because if one switches character encoding in Firefox it looks great.
[03:52] <solsTiCe> andred: yes if i switch to iso-8859-1 i got my standard vera sans again ;..
[03:52] <DMJC> funny... they dominate the world yet it's still hard to get a decent picture of their logo
[03:56] <andred> It's not just on that Korean Character Coding either. This site uses ISO-8859-2, and the fonts look much more bold than if you switch to some other character coding. http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0410.2/0000.html
[03:56] <GhostLine> hello guys
[03:56] <solsTiCe> sabdfl: hello. i made amistake ; via82cxxx is an ide module and an oss module via82cxx_audio is an oss module ...
[03:56] <DMJC> I need a picture of the windows logo
[03:56] <DMJC> preferably 128x128 or bigger
[03:56] <Lathiat> to print and burn?
[03:56] <ygnome> DMJC: u mean the flying windows flag thing?
[03:56] <sabdfl> solsTiCe: no worries
[03:57] <andred> DMJC, This seams like a weird place to ask for such a thing:-)
[03:57] <Lathiat> no its the best place
[03:57] <arturaz> Lathiat, :D
[03:57] <Lathiat> print it out and burn it :)
[03:57] <GhostLine> Hum, I've a little prblem in installing Ubuntu on my second machine ... is someone ca help ?
[03:57] <GhostLine> ^^
[03:58] <GhostLine> +n
[03:58] <lord_chaos> GhostLine: what kind of problem ?
[03:58] <GhostLine> I've my CDROM on IDE and my two HDD in SCSI on a SYM53C810 controller
[03:58] <GhostLine> the HDD are not recongnized
[03:59] <GhostLine> -n
[03:59] <lord_chaos> GhostLine: okay
[03:59] <GhostLine> into the partition program of course
[03:59] <GhostLine> ^^
[03:59] <lord_chaos> GhostLine: the controller is probably not recognized
[04:00] <GhostLine> I think so ... I've search for explication on Google, the only thing I've found is a modification of the debian kernel ...
[04:01] <lord_chaos> Is that an Asus controller ?
[04:01] <GhostLine> no, it's SymBIOS
[04:01] <avuko> ave
[04:03] <Snubbel> can someone tell me the std runlevel of ubuntu?
[04:03] <sepheebear> rlvl 2
[04:03] <Snubbel> thx
[04:04] <sepheebear> look in /etc/inittab
[04:06] <xiximkopp> hello! anybody has a clue why the ubuntu gdesklets packages are sooo outdated?
[04:06] <arturaz> xiximkopp, universe?
[04:07] <xiximkopp> arturaz: yes
[04:10] <xiximkopp> the freshest package is 0.26.2-5ubuntu1 while the available source is 0.30
[04:10] <lamont> WW_: that livecd image is not a release candidate, but I'd love to get feedback on it.
[04:10] <xiximkopp> anybody knows why?
[04:12] <tfheen> Kamion: the initial "new user" dialog doesn't strip 8 bit chars.. it probably should.
[04:14] <sepheebear> is it just me or is theme switching unreliable in gnome 2.8 as a whole?
[04:14] <aitrus> lord_chaos: i just posted a workaround for that cd-writing bug on bugzilla
[04:15] <billy> any ubuntu user with epson stylus cx3100 printer ?
[04:16] <winkle> Hi. I'm missing the "Develop"-entry in the menu, any ideas?
[04:16] <Kamion> tfheen: see bug #668
[04:16] <avuko> winkle: on how to add it, or on defal
[04:16] <avuko> eh
[04:17] <avuko> ...defaults for it
[04:17] <avuko> ?
[04:17] <Lathiat> winkle: its called programming here?
[04:17] <winkle> Lathiat: Right, that's the name.
[04:17] <tfheen> Kamion: ook
[04:18] <winkle> Wonder why I don't have it, I have packages installed which adds icons there...
[04:18] <Lathiat> winkle: logged out/in since?
[04:19] <winkle> Lathiat: Ah, that's probably it.
[04:19] <WW_> lamont: I'll give it a shot... but it looks like I'll have to wait 5+ hours for the download!
[04:19] <avuko> doesn't it usually add them automagically, without the need to log in again? 
[04:20] <lamont> WW_: yeah.  therein lies the problem, eh?
[04:21] <WW_> A little question about Firefox:  I started downloading an ISO, but then hit Cancel in the download manager after about 1meg had been downloaded.  I then clicked on Clean Up in the download manager. I started downloading the same ISO, and it looks like the download started up where it had left off before.  Is this going to work?
[04:21] <Lathiat> avuko: not for me
[04:21] <avuko> well, we'll hear if it works in a sec I guess ;)
[04:22] <WW_> I don't know how smart the download manager is in Firefox.  It looks like canceling the download didn't clear some sort of cache.
[04:23] <solsTiCe> WW_: might work. but you will not see the size of the download and the time left . Can't garanty you that it will work.
[04:23] <avuko> not a clue if it works, I usually just feed the link to wget
[04:25] <WW_> Never mind, I canceled it... I don't want to find out after 5 hours that it was screwed up in the first meg of download!
[04:26] <avuko> smart move ;)
[04:27] <Lathiat> WW_: It should work fine
[04:27] <|trey|> WW_: the file is stored in /tmp ... it should be safe to start it up again later, its kinda by design to enable that... but yeah, its prolly smart to just redownload later  :)
[04:30] <WW_> Lathiat, |trey|: OK, good to know that it should work.
[04:30] <WW_> but for now, wget is cranking away.
[04:33] <|trey|> WW_: wget is useful  8-)
[04:36] <ygnome> hmmm. is there a way of getting firefox to actually use wget to do it's downloads?
[04:37] <solsTiCe> ygnome: with an extension you couls tell it which program to use
[04:37] <ivar> i'm hoping to install Sun's JDK by following http://serios.net/content/debian/java.php
[04:37] <ivar> problem is, I can't apt-get install java-package 
[04:38] <avuko> http://wiki.osuosl.org/display/DEV/Java+on+Debian
[04:38] <avuko> I used that one
[04:38] <ivar> I know 'java-package' is in debian SID, but I'm not sure how to include it in sources.list
[04:39] <ygnome> deb ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/java-linux/debian unstable main non-free
[04:39] <avuko> ah, I wouldn't know about the ubuntu specifics
[04:39] <siretart> ivar: include 'multiverse'
[04:39] <siretart> ivar: java-package is not in universe, you need multiverse
[04:39] <ygnome> that's for blackdown...
[04:39] <Mayday> anyone know how to save the audio output from a program?
[04:39] <ivar> ahh.. ok..
[04:41] <ivar> siretart: to switch to multiverse, I change the string 'universe' in sources.list ?
[04:42] <solsTiCe> what a pain to install java on debian ...
[04:42] <siretart> ivar: dont switch, just add the word multiverse to your apt-sources.list line
[04:42] <siretart> solsTiCe: not at all over here
[04:42] <ygnome> solsTiCe: not really.
[04:42] <ivar> siretart: I'm confused, you mean just the word 'multiverse' on it's own line ?
[04:43] <siretart> ivar: no, in just add the word "multiverse" after "universe" in the same line in /etc/apt/sources.list. multiverse is a new section
[04:43] <ivar> siretart: ah.. ok. cool
[04:45] <ivar> hmm - Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[04:45] <ivar> is that me ? 
[04:45] <WW_> ivar: Did you update first?
[04:45] <WW_> ..after adding multiverse?
[04:45] <ivar> ww_: that is me trying to update
[04:45] <WW_> ah
[04:46] <arturaz> hey
[04:46] <arturaz> how do i switch my vdesks with keyboard?
[04:46] <tfheen> arturaz: Ctrl-Alt-{Left,Right}arrow
[04:46] <arturaz> do ubuntu use gpm?
[04:46] <arturaz> ;)
[04:47] <arturaz> prob no
[04:47] <arturaz> my mouse stopped working upon upgrade :)
[04:49] <will> is there a way to get the pr release of firefox back on?
[04:50] <__daniel> hai
[04:51] <jazzka> what about adding color to the system boot, all those [Ok]  messages could be in a great green color
[04:51] <jazzka> ;-)
[04:51] <will> yeah just what i thought
[04:51] <Lathiat> i like it how it is personally :)
[04:52] <Kamion> jazzka: the lack of colour there was deliberate; colour makes things stand out, so we felt it should be reserved for problems that you need to pay attention to.
[04:52] <jazzka> mmmm I see
[04:53] <opi^away> ThreeDayMonk: same here
[04:53] <Kamion> jazzka: plus, green would cause problems for those with red/green colour blindness, who wouldn't be able to see the difference between ok and fail at a glance any more.
[04:53] <opi^away> ThreeDayMonk: and this is a DLink card
[04:53] <arturaz> lol
[04:53] <Lathiat> The new d-i rocks
[04:53] <arturaz> just upgraded ubuntu :)))
[04:53] <arturaz> new theme rocks!
[04:53] <arturaz> although, someone could kick you in the ass for gnome-splash :D
[04:53] <Lathiat> shame it hasnt been in a debian release yet
[04:54] <ThreeDayMonk> opi^away: so is this... well... it's the same hardware as the DWL650, but it's from Japan so branded differently
[04:54] <Lathiat> arturaz: heh a few people raised eyebrows over that
[04:54] <arturaz> =] 
[04:54] <opi^away> ThreeDayMonk: anyway, no other distro setup it out-of-box
[04:55] <ThreeDayMonk> exactly why I was so impressed
[04:55] <Lathiat> opi^away, ThreeDayMonk: thenew debian installer does, which is what ubuntus is, but yeh
[04:55] <Lathiat> ive been using it with debain for some time with the preview releases it rocks
[04:55] <will> ok question: if i instal, for example MOZILLA SUITE, i have a lot of other dependencies to install with it...total 104MiB, so if I remove Mozilla, how do i remove all the dependencies, without writing em all down!?
[04:56] <ThreeDayMonk> Lathiat: really?  the last Debian netinst CD I tried wouldn't do it - at least not on a PC card
[04:56] <__daniel> will, in synaptic you can choose a view "orphaned packages" (if you have deborphan installed, too) - this could help you
[04:56] <opi^away> if you're brave
[04:56] <Lathiat> will: Well generally you don't because those libraries are often used by other things, sometimes there not, however if the stuff depends on mozilla it will be removed with it, plsu there is the orphaned stuff
[04:56] <opi^away> do something like this
[04:57] <Lathiat> ThreeDayMonk: www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/
[04:57] <Lathiat> its not a release yet
[04:57] <JanneM> ThreeDayMonk: debian is a little ..slow on updates; you won be seeing that for some time yet
[04:57] <opi^away> apt-get remove `deborphan`
[04:57] <Lathiat> opi^away: thats a bad idea
[04:57] <opi^away> Lathiat: very bad idea :)
[04:57] <Lathiat> very very very bad idea
[04:57] <will> okay so is it completely safe to remove 'orphaned' packages?
[04:57] <Lathiat> will: no
[04:57] <opi^away> Lathiat: as I said: if you're brave
[04:58] <Lathiat> will: Unless your really low on disk space or something, it doesnt hurt to leave them there...
[04:58] <will> thats true...oaky i will give it a go
[04:58] <opi^away> most of libs are going to be useful sooner or leater
[04:58] <JanneM> will: the problem is, there really is no way to tell if the package really is used by you, or indirectly by something you use
[04:58] <Lathiat> leaving them or using deborphan?
[04:59] <jazzka> is there any screenshot of the las debian-installer?
[04:59] <opi^away> and renember, some people compile programs from source
[04:59] <JanneM> will: to take a game example, you may have nethack installed, and then Falcon's Eye (graphical shell) on top of it. But if you remove Falcon's Eye, you may very well still want nethack to remain. apt has no way of knowing
[05:00] <WW_> Is using deborphan a bad idea in general, or just apt-get remove `deborphan`?
[05:00] <opi> WW_: second
[05:00] <__daniel> deborphan is quite alright (if you don't use --guess-all)
[05:00] <Lathiat> jazzka: its very similar to the ubuntu installer
[05:00] <opi> WW_: it will try to remove EVERYTHING 
[05:00] <Lathiat> jazzka: ubuntus is just rebranded and tweaked a bit
[05:00] <__daniel> deborphan doesnt remove anything
[05:01] <__daniel> it just displays packages not being mentioned in dependencies
[05:01] <opi> __daniel: we're speaking about apt-get remove `deborphan`
[05:01] <__daniel> opi, oh... alright :-)
[05:01] <JanneM> won't deborphan mention every "top"-level package?
[05:01] <__daniel> JanneM, try it
[05:01] <Lathiat> heh im trying to understand diffie-hellman exchange
[05:01] <__daniel> it's harmless
[05:01] <Lathiat> thing i need to grasp circular groups first
[05:02] <JanneM> __daniel: can't - my only ubuntu.machine is at work
[05:02] <__daniel> JanneM, try a debian machine instead ;-)
[05:02] <JanneM> __daniel: this is FC2 :)
[05:02] <ivar> ha - just added http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Java?action=show
[05:03] <z4k4ri4> opi: apt-get remove `deborphan` doesn't remove everything, only things that you don't need
[05:03] <z4k4ri4> and when you need it back it will be installed
[05:03] <opi> z4k4ri4: do it, and come back after fixing stuff ;)
[05:03] <Bilbo> Just loaded Ubuntu on a desktop yesterday.... nice job guys
[05:03] <z4k4ri4> I use to doit in debian
[05:03] <JanneM> __daniel: how does it discriminate?
[05:03] <opi> I did it once too
[05:04] <Bilbo> have not yet done the attach to univers and install
[05:04] <__daniel> JanneM, discriminate?
[05:04] <z4k4ri4> I believe that the way to clean up upgrade waste
[05:04] <JanneM> __daniel: I mean, how would it determine that a given package really is not used by anything - inluding the user, as is the case for pretty much any desktop app?
[05:05] <z4k4ri4> library that you don't need anymore because it already superceded
[05:05] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: by Required or Recommend things
[05:05] <z4k4ri4> in apt
[05:05] <Kamion> JanneM: section, normally
[05:05] <JanneM> hm, ok
[05:05] <__daniel> JanneM, most packages are listed in dependencies by meta-packages such as gnome-office or something - i didnt read the code, but from what i see, it does a good job
[05:06] <Kamion> desktop applications aren't in "Section: libs"
[05:06] <JanneM> true
[05:06] <Kamion> (it looks at other sections too, depending on command-line options)
[05:06] <JanneM> ok
[05:06] <solsTiCe> ivar: dpkg -i sun-j2sdk1.5_1.5.0_i386.deb yes but why apt-get install sun-j2sdk1.5debian?
[05:06] <JanneM> not very safe as an operation, then, but very practical when you now what you're doing
[05:07] <Netminder> ivar: you rule, I was just looking in to it and wondering if that was going to work for me :)
[05:07] <JanneM> and as soon as you build anything outside of apt, you need to keep that in mind 
[05:07] <Kamion> JanneM: there's a tool called 'orphaner' to do interactive removals, too
[05:07] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: deborphan only list unused library
[05:07] <JanneM> mm
[05:07] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: not programs
[05:07] <JanneM> but you do need to know if you have manually built something requiring a lib it suggests for removal
[05:08] <__daniel> z4k4ri4, it doesnt only list libraries
[05:08] <JanneM> as others have said, best to just keep pstuff around
[05:08] <JanneM> it not like libs tend to take a lot of room anyway
[05:08] <ivar> wiki entry needs work.. as I go through the steps, I found that the java-package hasn't been updated for the full 1.5 release
[05:08] <z4k4ri4> I never try it in ubuntu
[05:08] <z4k4ri4> but in debian it does
[05:09] <Kamion> ivar: it's a wiki; feel free to update it :)
[05:09] <__daniel> z4k4ri4, i use it on debian all the time
[05:09] <WW_> ivar: Thanks for taking the time to update the wiki.  ivar or anybody else: is there any reason to prefer that version over the method linked here: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-16.3469703387  ?
[05:09] <z4k4ri4> so whats your problem?
[05:10] <__daniel> z4k4ri4, nothing :-)
[05:10] <__daniel> z4k4ri4, i just said it doesnt only list libraries it lists "programs" as well
[05:10] <z4k4ri4> well the default of deborphan only list unused library
[05:11] <Netminder> ivar: http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/DebianJava.html has instructions on how to make it work with 1.5
[05:11] <Netminder> That's for deb, but the basic instructions should be the same.
[05:11] <z4k4ri4> only when you use some option it list unused program
[05:11] <__daniel> z4k4ri4, ok... sorry - you're right
[05:12] <z4k4ri4> so it is reasonably safe to use apt-get --purge remove `deborphan`
[05:12] <JanneM> any real reason ubuntu couldn't support src RPMs as well?
[05:12] <ivar> netminder: heh.. check the updated wiki entry :)
[05:13] <WW_> Continuing the Java comments, here's another wiki page: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[05:13] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: because it is debian :)
[05:13] <__daniel> z4k4ri4, i used 'deborphan --guess-all' and then selected those i didnt need, but this is nothing i would recommend
[05:13] <WW_> Not obvious that RestictedFormats would contain java info!
[05:13] <z4k4ri4> ofcourse
[05:14] <z4k4ri4> I only use deborphan with no options
[05:14] <__daniel> z4k4ri4, for me it's nice to get an overview
[05:14] <guptan> Mplayer gives me this error on playback: "alsa-control: mixer attach /dev/mixer error: no such file or directory" Error message keep on flashing, but playback happens. How can I get rid of this error message?
[05:14] <z4k4ri4> To keep my installation clean, I usually keep a log of packages that I install
[05:14] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: well, that really is no reason. .deb and .rpm are pretty interchangeable, and if we could build source RPMs (maybe restrict to Fedora), we'd have another good source of packages
[05:15] <opi> guptan: other tools are playing music without problem?
[05:15] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: they similar but not the same
[05:15] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: close enough 
[05:16] <solsTiCe> ivar: they are worng at serios.net in their sumaary it is not make-jpkg but fakeroot make-jpkg as said brlow in their doc ...
[05:16] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: .deb has richer semantic
[05:16] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: and if we focus on one other distro, we can translate
[05:16] <guptan> opi, rhythmbox gives an error /dev/dsp doesn't exist and not playing
[05:16] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: the differences really are small enough to be worked around
[05:16] <opi> guptan: seems like you don't have music subsystemm up
[05:16] <guptan> opi, how can I turn that up
[05:17] <ivar> WW_: thanks for the restricted formats link.. that's got all the good stuff I still need ;)
[05:17] <z4k4ri4> the problem is all the rpm based distro that I look doesn't have a strong policy like debian
[05:17] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: it would be a little sweet to be able to point ubuntu to the source archives of the excellent third-party repos of fedora
[05:17] <opi> guptan: strange it didn't hapend with installation
[05:17] <opi> guptan: what kind of sound card do you have?
[05:17] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: I believe debian has more package than all third-party repos of fedora
[05:18] <z4k4ri4> that what universe are
[05:18] <guptan> opi, rhythmbox was working fine, I think while trying to fix mplayer I messed up something :|
[05:18] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: perhaps more, but I do miss quite a lot
[05:18] <opi> guptan: see if there's /dev/audio and /dev/mixer devices
[05:18] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: which is?
[05:18] <opi> guptan: and if they are readable/writable for your user/group
[05:19] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: right now, I needed to build some stuff from source to get japanese input
[05:19] <__daniel> guptan, you may have to add yourself to group audio
[05:19] <__daniel> guptan, if the devices are in /dev
[05:19] <guptan> opi, its intel card
[05:19] <z4k4ri4> Have you post Request For Packages in debian?
[05:19] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/JapaneseInputHowto
[05:19] <opi> guptan: same here, it's supported by ALSA as well as OSS
[05:20] <opi> guptan: i8x0, right?
[05:20] <guptan> opi & __daniel my account is in audio group
[05:20] <opi> guptan: who owns /dev/audio?
[05:20] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: I'm not critical - I just feel we'd be even stronger if we could harness those repos as well
[05:20] <__daniel> guptan, what about /dev/dsp ?
[05:20] <guptan> how can I check that
[05:20] <opi> guptan: ls -l /dev/audio
[05:21] <__daniel> guptan, ls -l /dev/{dsp,audio,mixer}
[05:21] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: we should not be so myopic that we limit ourselves to debian only
[05:21] <enabl> how can i tell if dma is enabled on sata and optical drives and if not how can i enable it?
[05:21] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: T believe the procedure is to post RFP in debian bugs and hopefully someone will package it
[05:21] <opi> enabl: use hdparm
[05:21] <guptan> root owns them
[05:22] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: but this is not debian. Things here should be fed upstream, absolutely, but we should not be limited in turn
[05:22] <__daniel> enabl, what does hdparm -i /dev/<device> say?
[05:22] <opi> guptan: it's root:audio or root:root?
[05:22] <guptan> opi, its root:audio
[05:22] <opi> guptan: so it's ok
[05:22] <opi> hmmm
[05:22] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: But debian has more dev than ubuntu
[05:22] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: and if something turns out to be hugely popular here, that is when we can do an rfc for debian - and back up with real usage patterns, solved issues and so on
[05:23] <enabl> __daniel, it says operation not supported on scsi disks
[05:23] <__daniel> JanneM, i think it's too much work to get packages from everywhere coexisting - just have a look how many packages you REALLY would need from fedora
[05:23] <z4k4ri4> Not rfc just a RFP bug in WNPP packages
[05:23] <JanneM> yep
[05:23] <JanneM> I meant RFP
[05:24] <__daniel> enabl, hdparm -v /dev/<device> ?
[05:24] <z4k4ri4> Is there a simila procedure in ubuntu?
[05:24] <JanneM> I really hope not, to be honest
[05:24] <JanneM> it makes for a sure - but slow - process
[05:24] <JanneM> which debian is excellent at
[05:25] <JanneM> ubuntu is faster moving
[05:25] <guptan> opi, what cud be wrong with my system
[05:25] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: I doesn't have to be slow
[05:25] <JanneM> "build it and they will come" - more like the apt repos for fc
[05:25] <cianid3> quite a few members in here
[05:25] <opi> guptan: hrm.. maybe try to reboot it?
[05:25] <JanneM> good, solid and reliable repos will be popular
[05:25] <enabl> __daniel, that gives me the readonly and geometry settings
[05:26] <opi> guptan: maybe something is using /dev/audio?
[05:26] <JanneM> others will fall 
[05:26] <guptan> opi, I tried that also
[05:26] <defendguin> how do you save a file using vi?
[05:26] <JanneM> defendguin: :w
[05:26] <opi> defendguin: :w
[05:26] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: what more solid and reliable than debian repos?
[05:26] <cianid3> anyone else have problems compiling software for ubuntu?
[05:26] <opi> defendguin: or :w name
[05:26] <__daniel> enabl, hmmmm, i have no experience with scsi disks at all, i just read "man hdparm"
[05:26] <guptan> opi, is mplayer reallu stable on debian/ubuntu?
[05:26] <opi> defendguin: go to command mode with ESC
[05:26] <opi> guptan: I haven't use packaged MPlayer
[05:26] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: nothing. But if you ask "what is slower to update than debian reppos" the answer would be the same
[05:26] <cianid3> no
[05:26] <opi> guptan: I compile it from sources
[05:26] <cianid3> i';ve tried mplayer
[05:27] <cianid3> it won't compile
[05:27] <cianid3> i was suprised it wasn't in universal
[05:27] <cianid3> because it IS the best movie player for linux
[05:27] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: for me a major point of ubuntu is debian-based, but not _really_ slow about updating
[05:27] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: The slowness is not because RFG process, it's because there is no one that does the work
[05:27] <opi> cianid3: I never had problem with building MPlayer from sources
[05:27] <guptan> opi, I'm getting error for rhythmjukebox also. error was /dev/dsp does not exist
[05:27] <cianid3> me neither
[05:27] <cianid3> only on ubuntu
[05:28] <opi> guptan: and it dose exists, right?
[05:28] <cianid3> opi: i couldn't build anythuing on ubuntu
[05:28] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: debian has a new release about every three years or when it is ready? Ubuntu runs a time based every six months
[05:28] <cianid3> opi: i'm running slackware now
[05:28] <opi> cianid3: Im installing Ubuntu ;->
[05:28] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: But it is always based on debian
[05:28] <cianid3> opi: ubuntu is nice but, like i said now software would compile
[05:28] <opi> cianid3: But Im using Slackware/Debian at work/home
[05:29] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: And always follow it
[05:29] <guptan> opi, I think so, 'coz I can hear sound from Mplayer despite of that error message
[05:29] <cianid3> opi: out of every distro slackware is the ebst
[05:29] <JanneM> yes, but running ahead and feeding back stuff to debian as it goes
[05:29] <cianid3> best*
[05:29] <cianid3> ubuntu is in second
[05:29] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: Only in some areas
[05:29] <__daniel> guptan, what does "lsmod | grep oss" say?
[05:29] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: for me, the areas that matter
[05:29] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: supported one that is
[05:29] <opi> guptan: I can't help you, never had sutch problem, and we're runned out of ideas :P
[05:29] <guptan> opi, this was the ls -l result: crw-rw----    1 root     audio     14,   3 2004-10-16 18:57 /dev/dsp
[05:30] <opi> guptan: looks ok
[05:30] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: Not necessary in eyes of ubuntu dev
[05:30] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: just to be clear, for me debian has never, ever, been an alternative
[05:30] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: ubuntu, on the other hand, is
[05:30] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: Have you try debian testing?
[05:30] <opi> or SID
[05:30] <JanneM> I did try to install debian twice
[05:31] <guptan> __daniel, I have pasted it in #flood
[05:31] <z4k4ri4> The content is almost the same with ubuntu minus GNOME 2.8 stuff
[05:31] <JanneM> in both cases I gave up in frustrated disgust after a day
[05:31] <opi> but nowdays Debian Testing/Sid installation is 90% similar to Ubuntu :-)
[05:31] <cianid3> janneM:debian is the worst distro
[05:31] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: You should try on the new d-i
[05:31] <opi> hrm
[05:31] <__daniel> guptan, hmmm, looks good
[05:31] <z4k4ri4> It's the unbuntu installer
[05:31] <jabba_> where do you live, cianid3?
[05:32] <opi> jabba_: are you going to nuke him with a missle? :)
[05:32] <guptan> __daniel, I was trying to fix mplayer and rhythm started giving this error. anyway to reset audio config to defaults (installation defaults)
[05:32] <jabba_> perhaps
[05:32] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: but why? why should I try? I really like ubuntu. I agree with the design philosophy. I am slackjawed by awe over the quality. Why should I try a different distro - esecially one that will get the same improvements later on in any case?
[05:33] <opi> jabba_: then I hope he's isn't located close to me :>
[05:33] <cianid3> jabba_: why do you ask?
[05:33] <ThreeDayMonk> are there any unofficial bytecode-enabled versions of the ttf interpreter available?
[05:33] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: you're right but I won't install ubuntu for servers
[05:33] <__daniel> guptan, if you quit both and start rhythmbox again?
[05:34] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: neither would I, probably; I stay with fedora for that
[05:34] <guptan> __daniel, same message again
[05:34] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: especially when I need some unsupported packages
[05:34] <__daniel> guptan, what does "lsof | grep -E /dev/dsp" or "lsof | grep -E /dev/mixer" say? maybe those devices are still in use?
[05:34] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: simply because I know that disto very well
[05:34] <JanneM> and previous knowledge trumps just about anything for thatsituation
[05:34] <z4k4ri4> JanneM: If you learn ubuntu well enough you know the worst thing in debian is the installer
[05:35] <z4k4ri4> and the long release
[05:35] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: "the worst thing" doesn't begin to cover it :)
[05:35] <z4k4ri4> what more worse than worst :)
[05:35] <z4k4ri4> anyway I got to go, see you
[05:35] <guptan> __daniel, pasted in #flood
[05:36] <Kamion> z4k4ri4: the Ubuntu installer is the Debian installer
[05:36] <opi> Kamion: new Debian Installer :)
[05:36] <Kamion> speaking as the guy in charge of the Ubuntu installer, it's just not fair not to credit Debian
[05:36] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: what stopped me from debian really was after the install, though. I had some slightly unusual hardware, and I managed to utterly thrash the install by just installing and deinstalling kernel-related packages
[05:36] <fragment> Kamion, I think it's slightly improved over the new Debian installer.
[05:37] <fragment> (though it's been a while since I used the latest installer)
[05:37] <opi> Kamion: well, it's my second day of staring at apt-get and I can start usign Ubuntu on desktop ;->
[05:37] <JanneM> and after I spent two days, just to end up with a nonfunctional machine, I just threw in Redhat instead (which worked out of the box)
[05:37] <fragment> But the WEP key prompts, some of the others, don't seem familiar.
[05:37] <Kamion> fragment: somewhat, yes; the WEP key prompt is in Debian though
[05:38] <fragment> Oh, really?
[05:38] <Kamion> fragment: it's not something I added, at least :)
[05:38] <fragment> Kamion, Just caught that you're in charge of the installer.  Nice job!  I like the use of sudo.
[05:39] <Kamion> thanks; the sudo stuff was mostly ideas from others, mind, I just implemented part of it
[05:39] <fragment> Kamion, I didn't see an "Administrative user" option in the Users & Groups applet, though.
[05:39] <Kamion> fragment: that I don't know about
[05:39] <fragment> :) No problem.
[05:40] <opi> one thing is sure, Im going to try setup ubuntu mirror somewhere in Poland ;->
[05:40] <opi> I can not promote this distro and ask people to fetch packages at sutch speed
[05:40] <cianid3> when is the next ubuntu release due?
[05:40] <opi> cianid3: one per six months
[05:41] <cianid3> once again, when is the next release comming out?
[05:41] <Kamion> cianid3: April 2005
[05:41] <cianid3> seems like a while
[05:41] <Kamion> cianid3: (if you mean the release *after* the one we'll be putting out on Wednesday)
[05:41] <cianid3> theres one comming on wednesday
[05:41] <Kamion> yes
[05:42] <cianid3> is there a copy of the boot gdm screen without the naked people?
[05:42] <Kamion> you can use gdmsetup to change it
[05:42] <cianid3> of the gdm screen*
[05:42] <opi> cianid3: they are not naked
[05:42] <cianid3> i like the current one minus the people
[05:42] <Kamion> it's somewhere off the Computer menu too I believe
[05:42] <ushooz> is grub going to get a splash screen? :)
[05:43] <cianid3> i like grub without the splash
[05:43] <cianid3> in fact you shoudl really never see that screen so it dosen't matter :P
[05:43] <ushooz> well the login afterwards
[05:43] <ushooz> during init
[05:43] <JanneM> ideally, most of the post-login loading should really be done beforehand
[05:44] <opi> ok, it's unpacking packages
[05:44] <JanneM> with a quick login, no splash is needed, or wanted
[05:44] <cianid3> does anyone have problems compiling wine on ubuntu
[05:44] <fragment> Kamion: Uh-oh, install options.  :)  It'll be like ordering coffee, but listing grub, boot and gdm options.  "Can I get a splash, graphical, non-naked?"
[05:44] <cianid3> it dies with a bunch of errors
[05:44] <cianid3> so does cedega
[05:44] <cardador> cianid3: compile wine?
[05:44] <cardador> cianid3: why not apt-get?
[05:45] <cianid3> apt-get is alpha version
[05:45] <cianid3> 200406** if i remeber correctly
[05:45] <cianid3> the new version is differnt and works alot better
[05:45] <fragment> Uh...make that coffee at Starbucks, for the uninitiated. :)
[05:46] <cianid3> cardador: am i right?
[05:46] <JanneM> fragment: do you have a problem specifically with the gdm login screen?
[05:46] <opi> fragment: Im drinking it from a mug atm ;>
[05:46] <JanneM> seems most people are fine with that one
[05:46] <fragment> I have none.
[05:46] <cianid3> i don't like the login screen
[05:46] <fragment> opi: heheh
[05:47] <JanneM> cianid3: you mean where you input your name and password?
[05:47] <cianid3> yeah
[05:47] <JanneM> o
[05:47] <JanneM> k
[05:47] <cianid3> i think it looks cheesy
[05:47] <fragment> JanneM: I can see where a certain percentage of the geek population might perceive it as too touchy-feely.
[05:47] <JanneM> sorry
[05:47] <JanneM> I got the impression very few dislike the gdm screen
[05:47] <cianid3> i like the ones on gnome-look.org
[05:47] <fragment> JanneM: Too Cirque de Soleil.
[05:47] <cianid3> they look better
[05:48] <JanneM> since the people are obviously clothed
[05:48] <opi> fragment: maybe they haven't see female in bra?
[05:48] <cianid3> no
[05:48] <ushooz> cianid3, I already went there and changed mine :)
[05:48] <cianid3> the loading screen looks naked
[05:48] <fragment> heheheh
[05:48] <cianid3> after you enter your password
[05:48] <cianid3> and the loading screen appears
[05:48] <JanneM> loading screen seems to be the big problem, yes
[05:48] <cianid3> they look naked
[05:48] <JanneM> exactly
[05:48] <cianid3> my dropline gnome login screen kicksass
[05:48] <fragment> Personally, I'm disturbed by the naked Lego people in the logo....  ;)
[05:49] <JanneM> without the loading screen, would the login screen be ok, thogh?
[05:49] <cianid3> no
[05:49] <cianid3> take the people out of it
[05:49] <fragment> All my Lego people had blue T-shirts and white pants.
[05:49] <cianid3> then it would be good
[05:49] <JanneM> hm
[05:49] <krischan> hello everybody, I'd like to try out the new Ubuntu RC, is it possible to upgrade without installing everything new - and therefore loose all the added and changed packages?
[05:49] <fragment> ...and bad hair.
[05:50] <opi> fragment: I think we should burn artist behind this screen. He's evil, he's a pornography author. ;->
[05:50] <opi> fragment: and look at them, they are naked
[05:50] <fragment> hahahahah
[05:50] <cianid3> did you pay to have that login screen made?
[05:50] <baHam\\off> hey guys :P
[05:50] <JanneM> probably
[05:50] <opi> fragment: naked, in bra and pants
[05:50] <baHam> /dev/hdb        /mnt/mp3 ntfs users,owner,ro,umask=000 0 0 <-- I want to set it like that that I can see the folder also as user :| what to do ?
[05:51] <JanneM> cianid3: mostly, people do like the images - they are very, very good - but are not too hot on having it in a company setting
[05:51] <fragment> Beach attire.
[05:51] <JanneM> the login screen, people are clothed, and background is choice-only
[05:51] <cianid3> http://gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=16409&file1=16409-1.png&file2=&file3=&name=splash+gnome+ubuntu
[05:51] <fragment> It's MTV Beach Ubuntu.
[05:51] <cianid3> i liek that one
[05:52] <opi> Im going to make mine own
[05:52] <fragment> JanneM: Are you responsible for the login screen artwork/choice?
[05:52] <opi> ,,Ubuntu. We afraid of females in bra, so instead, here's a little puppy''. 
[05:52] <JanneM> cianid3: probably a good solution is to have an inoffensive, non-people set by default, and have the real stuff one click away
[05:52] <JanneM> fragment: nope
[05:52] <fragment> JanneM: ...or just asking?
[05:52] <JanneM> fragment: just another user
[05:52] <cianid3> yeah i agree
[05:52] <cianid3> i run ubuntu in school
[05:53] <cianid3> I'm waiting to get hassled by my teacher
[05:53] <fragment> I've started running it at work, and my boss has followed suit.
[05:53] <fragment> Lead by example.
[05:53] <Mithrandir> please join in on the discussion on monday, 1400UTC, then?
[05:53] <JanneM> cianid3: I'm dealing with large Japanese companies. About the most conservative organizations on earth. The login screen would be ok, thogh
[05:54] <opi> JanneM: Japanese? Those guys are buying dirty underware to sniff
[05:54] <fragment> Mithrandir: which discussion?
[05:54] <opi> JanneM: not to mention bukkake and p0rn anime
[05:54] <opi> JanneM: and you tell me they going to be offended by people in pants? :}
[05:54] <JanneM> opi: privately, or after work, yes. During work - loosen your tie and you will be the source of office gossip for a week
[05:54] <jde> Hello, I've compiled my kernel and I boot into it and it goes as far as 'Uncompressing kernel' then it just stalls there. Anyone ever had this, any solutions?
[05:55] <Mithrandir> fragment: the artwork discussion -- Mark and developers will be joining in then.
[05:55] <JanneM> mm
[05:55] <fragment> JanneM: Have you seen Shall We Dance?
[05:55] <JanneM> no
[05:55] <JanneM> what is it?
[05:55] <fragment> JanneM: The original, not the remake.  Great movie.
[05:55] <jde> JanneM: a chick flick.
[05:55] <JanneM> ok
[05:55] <JanneM> um, from where?
[05:55] <fragment> Great movie.
[05:56] <RIP|Freenode> ubuntu sucks so does everything else besides...
[05:56] <JanneM> imdb link?
[05:56] <jde> JanneM: Japanese movie, bout a bored husband learns to dance, etc ....
[05:56] <opi> RIP|Freenode: thanks for this opinion, now go to your troll cave ;)
[05:56] <Mithrandir> opi: he left, so. :)
[05:56] <opi> good troll ;}
[05:56] <opi> now, play dead ;>
[05:56] <ThreeDayMonk> JanneM: have you done any special configuration for Japanese?
[05:56] <JanneM> ok. Don't see a lot of movies here; my language isn good enough.
[05:57] <JanneM> ThreeDayMonk: have got it to work, yes
[05:57] <fragment> jde: I have this theory that there are no chick flicks.  If, say, it has Julia Roberts in it, how can it possibly be a chick flick?
[05:57] <JanneM> ThreeDayMonk: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/JapaneseInputHowto
[05:57] <fragment> jde: Who cares if her boyfriend has some fatal disease, it's Julia Roberts!  ;)
[05:57] <ThreeDayMonk> JanneM: the fonts are a bit ugly - the vertical alignment is screwed up on the roman characters (see http://www.asahi.com/)
[05:58] <jde> fragment: who's julia robers?
[05:58] <jde> s/robers/roberts
[05:58] <JanneM> ThreeDayMonk: can't test now - I only have ubuntu on one of my work machines
[05:58] <JanneM> ThreeDayMonk: please fill in the wiki, though!
[05:58] <JanneM> I mean, that's why it's there
[05:58] <fragment> JanneM: Shall We Dance is a Japanese movie, but easy to find subtitled.
[05:59] <JanneM> fragment: just haven't heard about it
[05:59] <fragment> jde: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000210/
[05:59] <ThreeDayMonk> it's not a bad film
[05:59] <JanneM> recommendation: Eat Drink man Woman
[05:59] <jde> fragment: I'm at the CLI, won't even bother with the link.
[05:59] <JanneM> korean, I believe
[05:59] <ThreeDayMonk> best Japanese film: minbo no onna
[05:59] <fragment> JanneM: Not *THAT*'s a goood movie.
[05:59] <fragment> s/not/now
[06:00] <jde> recommendation: Iron Monkey
[06:00] <jde> :^)
[06:00] <JanneM> fragment: the first five minutes is the most explicit food pornography I have ever seen!
[06:00] <fragment> jde: OK, uh, Pretty Woman?  Runaway Bride?  Notting Hill?
[06:00] <jde> fragment: I've never watched any of those, sorry.
[06:00] <fragment> JanneM: heheheheh
[06:00] <fragment> JanneM: So true
[06:00] <JanneM> we were about fifteen people watching it, and we had to stop the tape to cook dinner (which we originally planned for after the movie)
[06:01] <fragment> jde: Ocean's 11?
[06:01] <jde> fragment: No. :^/
[06:01] <JanneM> fragment: of course "tampopo" is a Japanese classic
[06:01] <fragment> jde: Confessions of a Dangerous Mind?
[06:01] <JanneM> I like food...
[06:01] <jde> fragment: No .....
[06:01] <fragment> Conspiracy Theory?
[06:01] <opi> fragment: like SCO & MS? ;)
[06:01] <fragment> Come on, now THAT's a guy flick.
[06:01] <jde> fragment: I don't watch many of the popular movies.
[06:02] <fragment> Pelican Brief?
[06:02] <fragment> opi: heheh
[06:02] <jde> fragment: No.
[06:02] <opi> jde: Lord Of The Rings? :)
[06:02] <jde> opi: yeah part of number 2. Read the books though.
[06:03] <fragment> jde: OK, last...ten movies you've seen.
[06:03] <opi> jde: I love the book same as I love the movie :)
[06:03] <jde> The last movie I watched was the Michael Moore movie.
[06:03] <opi> ThreeDayMonk: Im doing same thing once per ten downloads ;)
[06:03] <opi> ThreeDayMonk: then I realize: Oh, right, it's mirror selection script ;)
[06:03] <JanneM> I can recommend Steamboy, if anyone here likes anime
[06:04] <jde> Before that it was Full Metal Jacket, Doctor Strange Love, Space odessy, etc...
[06:04] <fragment> JanneM: I'm not an anime watcher, but I'm always looking for a good introduction to anime.
[06:04] <fragment> jde: Kubric fan?
[06:04] <jde> fragment: somewhat.
[06:04] <ThreeDayMonk> opi: yeah - but realistically, how many people actually download something using their browser?  I'd expect that d/lnig to /usr/local/src/ via wget is far more common, and yet it's a hassle to achieve
[06:04] <opi> I prefer Space Odessy the book
[06:04] <JanneM> Steamboy really is more like Indiana Jones in style, rather than Japanese anime
[06:04] <jde> opi: they both sucked.
[06:05] <jde> Clock work orange was good.
[06:05] <opi> ThreeDayMonk: true, but browsing SF is better with browser
[06:05] <JanneM> it is a great adventure movie set in England in the mid 19th century, that just happens to be a cartoon rather than live-action
[06:05] <opi> ThreeDayMonk: I cut url and past it to wget
[06:05] <fragment> JanneM: I only own a handful of movies, and Eat, Drink, Man, Woman is one of them.
[06:05] <JanneM> mm
[06:05] <ThreeDayMonk> opi: yes... I just have to remember at which point to copy it!
[06:05] <JanneM> fragment: you really need to get Tampopo, then
[06:06] <JanneM> Steambo review a bit lower down: http://lucs.lu.se/people/jan.moren/log/03.html
[06:07] <fragment> JanneM: Branagh's Henry V is another.
[06:07] <ThreeDayMonk> this will sound stupid - I've never installed linux and had it come without the compiler before - what's the package?  gcc?  and how much additional stuff will I need (dev libraries etc.)?
[06:07] <jde> ThreeDayMonk: SF offers alot of services free, so why complain.
[06:08] <fragment> ThreeDayMonk: Try using Synaptic.
[06:09] <fragment> ThreeDayMonk: You'll need a ton of -dev libraries depending on what you want to compile.
[06:09] <jde> ThreeDayMonk: or aptitude
[06:09] <fragment> ThreeDayMonk: The standard gnome dev libraries for just about any GTK+, for instance, but I always check the docs of the source.
[06:10] <JanneM> fragment: seen it. I really preferred Branaughs As you like it, though. He really managed to convey the juicyness of the play there. We came out of the movie house and couldn't stop smilng for an hour afterwards
[06:10] <ThreeDayMonk> there's no base-dev package or anything?
[06:10] <fragment> ThreeDayMonk: Oh, and you'll probably need make or automake or both.  And binutils, if it's not part of the base.
[06:10] <jde> autotools autoconf
[06:10] <fragment> JanneM: Oh yeah.  You pretty much can't go wrong with his Shakespeare work.
[06:11] <fragment> JanneM: Even his Hamlet.  Probably not his best, but there are some brilliant scenes in it.
[06:11] <limaunion> my notebook has a synaptic and a ps/2 mouse, the ps2 mouse isn't working under XFree86, any idea? 
[06:11] <jde> PlayStation2 mouse?
[06:11] <jde> :^P
[06:12] <JanneM> limaunion: should Just Work
[06:12] <jde> limaunion: do you have a `psaux' entry under /dev?
[06:13] <limaunion> JanneM: but it isn't, having just switched the notebook from FC2 to Ubuntu
[06:13] <JanneM> mm
[06:13] <limaunion> jde: yes
[06:13] <fragment> jde: A PlayStation2 would make a big mouse.
[06:14] <JanneM> or a small elephant
[06:14] <jde> limaunion: is /dev/psaux in your XF86Config-4?
[06:14] <jde> limaunion: you may need to add that in there.
[06:15] <JanneM> hm, looking forward to my new computer in two weeks
[06:15] <jde> JanneM: waiting is the hardest part.
[06:15] <limaunion> jde: yes, there're two inputdevices sections, one for PS/2 the other for Synaptics
[06:15] <JanneM> yep
[06:15] <JanneM> been waiting for two weeks already
[06:16] <vrln> Mithrandir: will the artwork discussion be on this channel?
[06:16] <jde> limaunion: are they using the right drivers?
[06:16] <jde> vrln: no, you'll need to join the #pr0n chan. :^P
[06:17] <opi> vrln: when this discussion will take a place? :)
[06:17] <Gmail> is right to order 500cd from ship it?
[06:17] <jde> limaunion: I think it should be the Option "Protocol" "PS/2" or something.
[06:17] <limaunion> well, I haven't looked at that yet, a couple of minutes ago finished installing Ubuntu, now I'm updating the system
[06:17] <Gmail> or should i just order a few a copy some here in australia
[06:17] <opi> Gmail: why do you need 500 of them?
[06:18] <vrln> opi: Mithrandir said monday 1400UTC
[06:18] <limaunion> jde: protocol ImPS/2
[06:18] <jde> opi: maybe he needs alot of coasters.
[06:18] <Gmail> well... i dont know why i need 500 but i do know why i need 497
[06:18] <opi> Gmail: shoot :)
[06:18] <Gmail> DSLUG
[06:18] <opi> vrln: ok, I'll be there to defend females in bra :)
[06:19] <opi> Gmail: large LUG you got there
[06:19] <Gmail> that 400 members and guess we will force each guy to take one
[06:19] <jde> Gmail: why not download an iso, and ask people to bring their own disks?
[06:19] <opi> Gmail: but can't most of them fetch ISO from the internet? 
[06:19] <JanneM> opi: one  LUG and an appearance in some community event amd you'll empty your CD:s
[06:19] <fragment> opi: New vote: 2 females, 1 bra.
[06:19] <Gmail> yes most goto thecollege next door
[06:20] <opi> fragment: where's no guy option? :>
[06:20] <Gmail> ok so i shound cut the order to 100 and burn extra here
[06:20] <fragment> hahahah
[06:20] <jde> limaunion: you may need a different driver, depending on the make.
[06:20] <opi> Gmail: ask them by e-mail
[06:21] <limaunion> jde: ok thanks, will see later what can I do...
[06:21] <baHam> limaunion, hi ;)
[06:21] <JanneM> of course the point is that after a certain number of CD:s, the margin cost of a wef more (or a few hundred more) are negligible
[06:21] <jde> Go for the 500, ubuntu can use the money :^)
[06:21] <jde> limaunion: are you from Peru?
[06:22] <Gmail> well i bet only 5 of them herd about ubuntu and on 2 of them might want to try it but it wound be nice to give everyone a cd
[06:22] <fragment> Though you have to fix the .jigdo file to look at the current archives, but it works like a charm, and I can always hand out the latest so my friends don't have to download 100MB of updates.
[06:22] <JanneM> in a sense, pressing 500 CDs is pretty expensive per CD; pressing 50000 cds is cheap
[06:22] <fragment> (all fixed on Wednesday, I suspect)
[06:22] <vrln> I wonder how many CD:s have been ordered so far
[06:23] <limaunion> jde: no, Argentina.
[06:23] <limaunion> baHam: hi
[06:23] <jde> Gmail: isn't the next release coming out soon, why not wait til that one to order?
[06:23] <Gmail> vrln: i bet you some kid order 1m
[06:24] <jde> Gmail: Oct. 20, four days from now.
[06:25] <Gmail> theyare not shiping till the final comes out
[06:26] <Gmail> so it wont make a difrence to put my order now or 2 weeks ago
[06:26] <Gmail> they said that from day one
[06:26] <JanneM> I actually checked the price of doing a CD with my thesis; for a few pricepoints, it was acutally as cheap to print a few CDs as a lot (200 CD cost as much as 1000 CD if I remember correclty)
[06:28] <Gmail> i am worrided about delervy
[06:30] <JanneM> Gmail: same there - there are bulk rates once you send a lot that are a lot cheaper than you see at the post office
[06:31] <Gmail> hmm
[06:31] <Gmail> ok
[06:31] <Gmail> 500 Cd it is
[06:31] <JanneM> for any one address, I would not expect there to be a appreciable difference in cost between ordeing 1 or 50 CDs
[06:31] <Gmail> it good thing i now how many power-pc and 64bits
[06:32] <Gmail> i wound think the wound send a HUGE package of cds to contry then spilt them
[06:33] <JanneM> Id guess whatever org wins the bid to distro them would probably do something like that - or rather "outsource" it to local orgs to figure out 
[06:37] <ThreeDayMonk> anyone else ua PC card WLAN adapter?  It seems like every time I am downloading a substantial amount of data, the interface is practically frozen (jerky mouser and slow response)
[06:37] <ThreeDayMonk> that said "using a"
[06:39] <JanneM> DanC: "interesting" settings are rarely safe ones...
[06:40] <DanC> ok, so I'm a stubborn, learn-it-the-hard-way type.
[06:41] <DanC> my kids' PC has been running win98 for a long time, but they like to use my PC and my wife's Mac to play internet-based games (and tuxracer)...
[06:42] <DanC> ... I asked them what they'd like their machine to do, and they all said "connect to the internet". No way I'm going to administer a Win98 box hooked up to the 'net, so I'm wiping the disk and installing ubuntu today.
[06:44] <chuck> hi all, i am an ubuntu newbie
[06:46] <DanC> my install notes go back to 30Sep
[06:46] <Espectro> hi, i want to remove some services from starting which i dont need. Which file do i need to modify?
[06:47] <DanC> hmm... I seem to have a warty-i386.iso from around 27Sep
[06:49] <DanC> hmm... popping the CD out, I see it's dated 2004-09-15 (not sure whether that's when it was released or when I burned it)
[06:50] <sg_> lo
[06:52] <solsTiCe> Espectro: i have done some work with update-rc.d but i think there is something better to use. i wait to an answer at your question. anybody ?
[06:53] <solsTiCe> i wait for an answer to your question 
[06:56] <wind> how do i get opengl support with my ati radeon 9600
[06:56] <wind> ?
[06:57] <xiximkopp> solsTiCe: i delete the files under /etc/rc?.d . not the nicest way, but it works for me. use could also uninstall software you dont need
[06:58] <xiximkopp> use=you
[06:59] <solsTiCe> xiximkopp: not really optimal solution to delete file there is something called update-rc.d that do the trick better 
[06:59] <WW_> wind: Have you seen this? http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[06:59] <solsTiCe> xiximkopp: there is no gui ?
[06:59] <wind> WW_, thanks
[07:02] <Espectro> millions of services are loaded on install
[07:02] <xiximkopp> solsTiCe: if you find one, tell me!
[07:02] <Espectro> i guess this was done to simplify install
[07:03] <regis> Hi
[07:03] <Espectro> all services get installed by default, yet gcc isn't even installed
[07:03] <Espectro> kind of contradictory
[07:04] <solsTiCe> xiximkopp: there is that but idon't know the name http://www.gnome.org/projects/gst/screenshots/runlevel.jpg
[07:05] <DanC> services loaded by default? which ones? got an example?
[07:06] <Espectro> postfix
[07:06] <Espectro> portmap
[07:06] <Espectro> mdadm (raid)
[07:06] <Espectro> famd
[07:06] <Espectro> acpi
[07:06] <Espectro> cups
[07:06] <Espectro> pcmcia
[07:06] <Espectro> gdm
[07:07] <Espectro> dbus
[07:07] <Espectro> ntp
[07:07] <xiximkopp> solsTiCe: gst - gnome-system-tools. but the ubuntu package just comes with the network, time and users admin tools...
[07:07] <Espectro> if ubuntu is aiming to be a desktop distro then it shouldn't load services
[07:07] <xiximkopp> Espectro: why dont you want dbus and famd??
[07:08] <jono> hi all
[07:08] <jono> how can I boot the installer from a floppy disk?
[07:08] <Espectro> maybe just cups and hardware stuff as needed
[07:08] <jono> anyone?
[07:09] <Espectro> famd is worthless "file monitoring manager" i dont have it on any distro
[07:09] <solsTiCe> every time i boot i see a fail in red it is some ntpdate process and it is rather evident it wil because my conenxion is not up at that time of the boot process. dumb thing ...
[07:10] <arturaz> solsTiCe, yeah... stupid ntpdate maintaner :)
[07:10] <jono> is there an ubuntu boot floppy?
[07:10] <arturaz> anyway, i have this in mind
[07:10] <arturaz> it's easy fix
[07:10] <dc|sl3p> floppy? who needs floppies?
[07:10] <DanC> things like famd, dbus, and acpi aren't network services; the're things that make the desktop work.
[07:11] <arturaz> DanC, ntpdate is :)
[07:11] <DanC> postfix is interesting... the question is: is it set up to accept incoming connections?
[07:11] <xiximkopp> famd: is some kind of useful, it updates your gnome menu after installing software, but it also is kind of annoying, if it doesnt want to let of my usbstick and i have to kill it
[07:11] <WW_> jono: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartBootManager
[07:11] <DanC> I think ntpdate is just a client.
[07:12] <DanC> portmap is also tricky... there are plenty of security issues around that. again, the question is: is it set up to accept non-local connections?
[07:13] <daniels> DanC: no
[07:14] <DanC> absolutely there should be an explicit "do you accept the risks of running this network service?" dialog for every network service started.
[07:14] <daniels> we don't start any network services per defaul t-- even better
[07:14] <DanC> good to know, daniels
[07:15] <WW_> By the way, what is that background graphic in the heading of the wiki web pages?  An airplane?
[07:15] <solsTiCe> WW_: a crashing airplain :-)
[07:16] <WW_> If it is some sort of fighter or bomber, well, I would find that more offensive that the recent "new" art work!
[07:16] <WW_> than*
[07:17] <dc|ibook> yeah, i find the new artwork pretty offensive as well
[07:17] <Espectro> daniels, why do you start a mail server by default and don't install gcc
[07:18] <SuperLag> I really don't get why you guys are whining about the artwork.  You know you CAN change it, right?
[07:18] <dc|ibook> sure, but as the default it could be less explicit
[07:19] <Espectro> yeah i dont like the guys shown when booting, they look like hippies or something, but i dont care that much
[07:19] <WW_> Wait, wait, I didn't say I found the artwork offensive. And now I regret even mentioning it... read far too much about it in the newsgroup.  Topic dropped, for me anyway.
[07:19] <SuperLag> Linux zoom.linuxlooney.com 2.6.8.1-3-k7 #1 Tue Oct 12 14:12:34 BST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
[07:19] <SuperLag> I updated to that kernel, and now sound doesn't work.
[07:19] <wasted> dc|ibook: why?
[07:19] <SuperLag> does this mean I need to manually recompile?
[07:20] <Espectro> you probably need to recompile alsa
[07:20] <JohnQ> Hello, does anyone know how long it takes to receive the ShipIt CD's from Ubuntu?
[07:20] <daniels> Espectro: because many services depend on having a working SMTP server (or a semblance of one)
[07:21] <dc|ibook> because some people will consider it offensive. like some people would consider the united states flag offensive as default splash screen
[07:21] <daniels> Espectro: however, nothing installed on the system depends on the existance of a working compiler
[07:21] <djempak> where is the new artwork?
[07:21] <daniels> SuperLag: please try to stay polite
[07:22] <Espectro> i just installed yesterday. when the install wanted to pull updates, i said yes and it froze when installing perl, so i wiped everything and reinstalled without updating, it worked, then updated manually
[07:23] <jono> hi all
[07:23] <jono> is there an ubuntu boot floppy?
[07:23] <Espectro> btw, i think the installer should add the ubuntu sources to apt-get even if you say no to updating in the installation
[07:23] <jono> anyone?
[07:26] <arturaz> jono, dunno
[07:26] <solsTiCe> Espectro: yes i agree with you. I had to finish my installation with pppoeconf and only then i could update the install with newer package
[07:26] <jono> I cant believe there is no boot floppy
[07:27] <max1234> any ideas in getting a dell C840 crystal sound to work
[07:27] <solsTiCe> Espectro: Espectro but it might a bad thing too for some people ... so ..
[07:27] <DanC> boot floppy... you think that should have been a priority already, jono?
[07:28] <DanC> you can use a debian boot floppy if you're industrious, I gather.
[07:28] <__daniel> hai
[07:28] <__daniel> does anyone know when hoary will be "opened"?
[07:29] <__daniel> i'd need a newer version of libqt* for libwvstreams4 :-/
[07:30] <siretart> __daniel: try grabbing the dpkg from unstable. ;)
[07:31] <__daniel> siretart, hmmm, seems to be the only solution
[07:32] <mirak_> __daniel: the final will be soon, i think i read oct. 18th, but yesterday someone said it will be a few days later then that
[07:32] <__daniel> mirak_, i see
[07:33] <mirak_> __daniel: what do you need the lib for???
[07:33] <__daniel> mirak_, for libwvstreams4
[07:34] <mirak_> __daniel" yeah, what do you need libwvstrams4 for??
[07:34] <__daniel> mirak_, but i'll check if i can get rid of the libwvstreams4-qt thingie
[07:34] <__daniel> won't need it anyway
[07:34] <mirak_> does anyone know how to change the desktop icon size????
[07:35] <mirak_> they are HUGE!!!
[07:35] <xiximkopp> jono: do you need it for booting up an old pc with no cdrom boot support?
[07:35] <mirak_> my rez is 1024 x 768 but the icons are gigantic
[07:37] <xiximkopp> jono: ???
[07:39] <Snubbel> hi @ all
[07:39] <__daniel> hi Snubbel
[07:40] <Espectro> final? i thought final was the one released on the 13th
[07:41] <Espectro> i dont understand much of the numbering version scheme
[07:41] <Espectro> seems ubuntu is catching some of sun's sucky marketing :)
[07:41] <carlos> Espectro: the numbering version is: YEAR.MONTH 
[07:42] <carlos> Espectro: the final release is next week
[07:43] <Espectro> oh
[07:43] <Espectro> but i wont need to get the final iso if i already installed the candidate right
[07:43] <xiximkopp> jono: maybe this could help you: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartBootManager
[07:44] <carlos> Espectro: with apt-get dist-upgrade will be enough
[07:44] <carlos> there are some packages with security and bugs fixes
[07:44] <PandU> Can someone help me setting up a motherboard CPU temp applet. MB Asus K8V abuntu amd64
[07:45] <PandU> what program to install to suit kernel 2.6.8.1-2-amd64-generic
[07:45] <DanC> ooh... install done... seems to be working...
[07:46] <jono> xix: yeah
[07:46] <DanC> not too quick on this 400mhz PC...
[07:48] <dan_> ok, now, this machine is runnig in my office, but I want to move it downstairs. So I need an 802.11 gizmo of some sorts.
[07:48] <dan_> any suggestions on PCI 802.11 adapters? or USB?
[07:49] <Espectro> buy access point, connect it to your switch or router
[07:49] <Espectro> buy wifi card
[07:49] <dan_> I have an access point... I have a working 802.11 network.
[07:49] <dan_> I just want to connect to it from this 400mhz pc
[07:49] <Espectro> so?
[07:49] <dan_> this pc is currently connected by cat5, but I want to move it downstairs where cat5 won't reach
[07:50] <dan_> but this pc has no 802.11 interface.
[07:50] <ThreeDayMonk> you could get a wireless bridge
[07:50] <DanC> ok, well, I'm cheap.
[07:50] <Espectro> just get a new card either usb or pci
[07:51] <DanC> yes, usb or pci. But linux support seems hit-and-miss. I was hoping for a 1st-hand recommendation.
[07:51] <Espectro> if it's .g then get pci
[07:51] <ThreeDayMonk> and not broadcom
[07:51] <Espectro> if it's .b usb is enough
[07:51] <DanC> my AP is .g
[07:51] <DanC> but for a kids PC, I expect 11mb/s is enough.
[07:52] <dade`_> hi every 1
[07:52] <ThreeDayMonk> hello ploum; I see you're in Belgium too
[07:52] <dade`_> i thought to install ubuntu
[07:52] <dade`_> can i use all debian's package archive with ubuntu ?
[07:52] <DanC> http://linux-lc100020.sourceforge.net/ suggests this Gigafast WF741-UIC should work. And it's like $14 after rebate. http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=162948
[07:52] <Espectro> read http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/
[07:53] <ThreeDayMonk> you 'merkins and your crazy rebates :-)
[07:54] <dade`_> who reply me ?
[07:54] <DanC> dade`_, almost. There's a relevant FAQ. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/helpcenterfaq.2004-09-15.7453904394
[07:54] <Espectro> dade`_, yes you can, but it can make your machine explode
[07:54] <Espectro> ;)
[07:55] <ElVirolo> hi all
[07:55] <ElVirolo> could anyone tell me if it is possible to use a screen resolution higher than 1024*768 in Ubuntu N
[07:55] <ElVirolo> ?
[07:55] <ThreeDayMonk> DanC: OS X?
[07:55] <DanC> yes, OS X
[07:55] <ThreeDayMonk> you can
[07:56] <ThreeDayMonk> in the system configuration, there's a "sharing" page
[07:56] <ThreeDayMonk> it's on there
[07:56] <DanC> heh... a powerbook is sort of an expensive ethernet bridge, but until I get to the store to get that $14 gizmo, I think I'll try it.
[07:56] <ThreeDayMonk> I'd tell you in more detail, but my iBook is broken (long story...)
[07:57] <ThreeDayMonk> it's not a bridge per se, more of NAT
[07:57] <PandU> what program to install in order to see cpu temp ubuntu amd64
[07:57] <max1234> help sound not working on dell latitude
[07:57] <DanC> hmm... NAT... I guess nested NAT works?
[07:58] <ThreeDayMonk> yeah, it does
[07:59] <Espectro> poor kids
[07:59] <Netminder> kids love humans!
[07:59] <Espectro> hope they like the penguins better than butterflies
[08:00] <ThreeDayMonk> hope the logon screen doesn't distress them :-)
[08:00] <PandU> Is GKrellM available for amd-64
[08:01] <dade`_> who tried ubuntu on powerbooks ?
[08:01] <mirak_> a few around here did.............dont think they are on now
[08:01] <mirak_> they said it works good
[08:01] <ElVirolo> no one knows how to get a higer screen res than 1024*768 ?
[08:02] <Espectro> i am typing this from my powerbook, but on OSX, i bought it for OSX alone and don't see why someone would install linux
[08:02] <dade`_> i'm using osx too
[08:02] <ElVirolo> to us Free Software
[08:02] <ElVirolo> use*
[08:02] <Espectro> you can use pretty much ALL free software
[08:02] <ThreeDayMonk> Espectro: yeah - OS X is very nice, and you can run most things on there
[08:02] <dade`_> almost..
[08:03] <dade`_> mmh
[08:03] <sivang> Espectro : Are you interested in Ubuntu ?
[08:03] <ElVirolo> Espectro: yes, but you cannot RUN a free system
[08:03] <Espectro> the os base itself is free software
[08:03] <Espectro> and you have fink
[08:03] <ElVirolo> I suppose, yeah
[08:03] <ThreeDayMonk> actually, I found darwin ports better than fink
[08:03] <Espectro> sivang, sure, i am testing it on an old pc laptop
[08:03] <dade`_> mmhh
[08:04] <dade`_> python on fink gave me some problems
[08:04] <djempak> lol, lots of people bought their PCs for Windows
[08:04] <Espectro> mac comes with python
[08:04] <ThreeDayMonk> python is already on OS X though
[08:04] <Espectro> and the python source compiles fine if you want to use a recent version
[08:04] <dade`_> yea
[08:05] <ThreeDayMonk> but you should really use Ruby instead :-)
[08:05] <sivang> Espectro : nice, what hardware specs?
[08:05] <Espectro> i have heard of ruby, what makes it so great?
[08:05] <ThreeDayMonk> it's a very elegant language
[08:05] <Espectro> sivang, 600mhz p3 128mbram
[08:05] <ThreeDayMonk> fully OO, moreso than python
[08:06] <toyowheelin> hello all
[08:06] <Espectro> it's interpreted or compiled?
[08:06] <ThreeDayMonk> and really, just very nice and fun to develop in
[08:06] <djempak> ay
[08:06] <ThreeDayMonk> interpreted
[08:06] <toyowheelin> so... who decided to change the logon screen?
[08:06] <ThreeDayMonk> some people are trying to make compilers, but it's difficult because it's so dynamic
[08:06] <MojoPete> lo all - simple question for you
[08:07] <MojoPete> can't seem to get my cdplayer to do a db lookup or find the config
[08:07] <MojoPete> is there a magical place to set that up?
[08:08] <mirak_> mojopete: no idea <[08:08] <dade`_> maybe i like ubuntu :P
[08:09] <toyowheelin> I need to write ATI a letter I think
[08:09] <Espectro> tell them they suck
[08:09] <toyowheelin> I plan on it Espectro
[08:09] <toyowheelin> and to tell them to make me some damn ATI linux drivers
[08:10] <Espectro> also tell them you are selling your card on ebay and getting nvidia
[08:10] <Espectro> that will show them
[08:10] <toyowheelin> lol I should
[08:10] <toyowheelin> though I dont think nvidia has 64bit drivers yet ether
[08:10] <Espectro> yes they do
[08:10] <toyowheelin> oh
[08:10] <toyowheelin> ok
[08:11] <djempak> MojoPete, gnome-cdplayer?
[08:11] <MojoPete> djempak: neither cdplayer or sound-juicer
[08:11] <toyowheelin> so anyway back to my first question...who changed the login screen and how do I get it back to something other than half nakid people
[08:12] <djempak> MojoPete, run cddb-slave2-properties
[08:12] <djempak> I think that's the configuration for it
[08:12] <Espectro> they have had a driver for a64 since december 2002
[08:12] <mirak_> what is the prob with the screen, i dont get it, you spend about 3 secs logging in
[08:12] <MojoPete> toyowheelin: computer/system/login screen
[08:12] <MojoPete> djempak : giving it a try - thnx
[08:13] <toyowheelin> mirak_, its the time that your NOT loged in that matters
[08:13] <djempak> lol, what's wrong with half naked people? ;)
[08:13] <sivang> they are not naked ! :)
[08:13] <mirak_> pll are upset because they are just getting teased
[08:13] <Espectro> what's this new login screen people are talking about
[08:14] <toyowheelin> and the problem is its not approprate for a production enviroment
[08:14] <Espectro> the one showing 1 guy and 2 girls or something?
[08:14] <mirak_> yeah
[08:14] <ThreeDayMonk> Espectro: yeah; you can see it on the homepage right now
[08:14] <Espectro> yeah i get that screen too
[08:14] <Espectro> they look hippy or something
[08:14] <sivang> whoever says they are naked is just plain hyporicts, 1)they are not naked. 2)This is no different from any fashion house shows you see at NYC
[08:14] <sivang> shows = street ads
[08:15] <mirak_> hehe.....nips are hard
[08:15] <Espectro> we need to see a cool ninja there or something
[08:15] <mirak_> haHA
[08:15] <toyowheelin> sivang, it dont matter it will not fly in my school
[08:15] <ThreeDayMonk> sivang: it's harsh to say that people are hypocrites.  Hey, I'm all in favour of naked flesh, but not quite like that, on the login screen
[08:16] <Espectro> nothing is naked there not even close
[08:16] <Espectro> they just like tree hugging hippies
[08:16] <mirak_> on the login screen they are fully clothed, xcept the dude......but its a dude, that is allowed
[08:16] <djempak> toyowheelin, how won't it fly in your school?
[08:17] <Espectro> maybe women will install lunix now
[08:17] <toyowheelin> djempak, my class is supposed to be a simulated production enviroment, so people with no shirts or just bra will not work
[08:17] <Espectro> so replace the screen yourself
[08:17] <djempak> yeah
[08:17] <mirak_> what grade are you in?????
[08:18] <ThreeDayMonk> easy to do
[08:18] <toyowheelin> I just wanted to know how
[08:18] <zenwhen> Adding racy pictures to the default login screen was unprofessional.
[08:18] <toyowheelin> mirak_, I am in college
[08:18] <ThreeDayMonk> system - configuration - login screen setup
[08:18] <Espectro> racy?
[08:18] <zenwhen> Yes
[08:18] <tix> zenwhen: the final decision on that has not been made
[08:18] <djempak> in that case, there shouldn't be any wallpaper at all, you should set everything to a plain black or grey background
[08:18] <ThreeDayMonk> toyowheelin: that's off the computer menu at the top
[08:18] <toyowheelin> ok thank you
[08:19] <toyowheelin> I am in KDE right now so I will do it in a bit
[08:19] <Espectro> or maybe just get the default background in the login too
[08:19] <Espectro> althought i dont like the colors, look like poop
[08:19] <mirak_> toyowheelin, USA, ppl need to be a bit more mature about things, they have tv dont they, you can see worse on the news
[08:19] <zenwhen> Theres no point in adding racy pictures to the default logoin screen of an operating system. Is this distro targeted at [H] ardcore overclocking teens?
[08:19] <toyowheelin> mirak_, tell that to my teachers
[08:19] <toyowheelin> lol
[08:19] <Espectro> why is it racy?
[08:19] <__daniel> oh man - i'm getting a headache from this discussion - you know what mark said: he talked about "human-ness" in his mail about the artwork - i really can't see why something as human as these (half-naked) people offends anyone
[08:19] <mirak_> lol..........all i have to say is, "some ppl are dumb"
[08:19] <djempak> would be nice if there was just an option during the install
[08:20] <zenwhen> Espectro, do you know what racy means?
[08:20] <Espectro> hot blonde babe, black girl for the "brothars" and vin diesel kind of guy
[08:20] <mirak_> djempak, there is an option after install
[08:20] <SuperLag> how do you disable sounds? just remove the path to the file?
[08:20] <ThreeDayMonk> Espectro: hey, both those girls look hot to me :-)
[08:20] <Espectro> i am not u.s, i thought racy meant like race of skin or something
[08:20] <rublind> Who knows how to fix sound in ubuntu
[08:20] <rublind> ?
[08:20] <djempak> mirak_, it asks if "offensive" artwork should be displayed?
[08:20] <zenwhen> No
[08:21] <theantix> SuperLag: apt-get remove ubuntu-sounds or remove package "ubuntu-sounds" in synaptic
[08:21] <linux_mafia> in the USA, people (companies, etc) are probably scared they will be sued for emotional damage, by some scammer, theyd probably win too
[08:21] <SuperLag> rublind: did you upgrade your kernel, and your sound went away?
[08:21] <socomm> SuperLag: as in desktop sounds?
[08:21] <mirak_> djempak, where??? you can change the loginscreen all together
[08:21] <toyowheelin> its not that its offencive its just un-professional
[08:21] <SuperLag> socomm: yep
[08:21] <Bentley> hi- Is there an searchable archive for the ubuntu-users list somewhere?
[08:21] <rublind> SuperLag, I installed ubuntu yesterday from a CD two days old.
[08:21] <socomm> SuperLag: gconf
[08:21] <zenwhen> It means  Risqu
[08:21] <ThreeDayMonk> for the US, have a --with-burqa option ;-)
[08:21] <sivang> toyowheelin , ThreeDayMonk : well I'm sorry, hypocirts was a bad word for this. However, I personally treat it as a fine piece of art(work) , just as the mona lisa or Michelangleo's David.
[08:21] <SuperLag> but theantix just answered :)
[08:22] <SuperLag> rublind: Okay... and did you upgrade your kernel, during the install process?
[08:22] <Espectro> ok racy in the dict says something with distinct characteristic taste
[08:22] <__daniel> people talking about "emotional damage" already are severly damaged 
[08:22] <__daniel> when they talk about not even half-naked people
[08:23] <Espectro> the u.s people mostly are flawed
[08:23] <sivang> and you don't see schools and universities condemn Michelangelo's David for being "naked"
[08:23] <sivang> oh god
[08:23] <sivang> channel splites.
[08:23] <dawnfading> hi
[08:23] <zenwhen> theres no need to have risqu content on the login screen of an os. It mariginalizes the OS to home use.
[08:23] <sivang> does anybody get them?
[08:23] <dawnfading> i was wondering if anyone uses GRUB to boot ubuntu with XP
[08:23] <socomm> zenwhen: or artsy shops.
[08:23] <mirak_> i believe most ppl are miising the point of ubuntu
[08:23] <theantix> dawnfading: I do, yes
[08:23] <ThreeDayMonk> mirak_: which is?
[08:23] <zenwhen> to have super sexy pictures?
[08:23] <zenwhen> Thats a good aim for a linux distro.
[08:23] <socomm> zenwhen: they aren't all that sexy.
[08:23] <mirak_> how more humane can you be than 3 ppl together in there natural state
[08:23] <rublind> Okay, so what was the solution to my sound problem?
[08:23] <djempak> Espectro, don't tell us that ;)
[08:23] <Espectro> natural state?
[08:23] <sivang> socomm : so right
[08:23] <djempak> we know that, lol
[08:24] <ThreeDayMonk> sivang: actually...  Donald Rumsfeld had them cover the naked statues behind him!
[08:24] <dawnfading> i'm having some newbie trouble configuring it with my IDE and sATA drive
[08:24] <mirak_> natural state....birthday suit....naked
[08:24] <socomm> I'm not into blondes or women of color.
[08:24] <zenwhen> Oh, so its a artsy hippy "wish I had a mac" sort of thing?
[08:24] <djempak> socomm, and?
[08:24] <socomm> djempak: and I don't find the picture sexy.
[08:24] <sivang> ThreeDayMonk : god. Are you sure? You mean he had it covered on the "sensitive" spot?
[08:24] <Espectro> i will stand with my killer ninja idea
[08:24] <djempak> socomm, who said it's supposed to be "sexy"
[08:24] <djempak> interpret it as you wish
[08:25] <socomm> djempak: read up a few lines.
[08:25] <socomm> zenwhen: yeah hipster sorta trip.
[08:25] <Espectro> while you are at it, change the gnome theme to something that isn't brown
[08:25] <djempak> was the picture intended to be sexy?
[08:25] <mirak_> the point is its not sexual or racy at all, its just UBUNTU
[08:25] <ThreeDayMonk> sivang: their breasts: " Ashcroft is noted for having taken offense at the partially nude statues of Liberty and Justice in a meeting room where he held press conferences. He ordered the statues covered with multi-thousand-dollar curtains"
[08:25] <__daniel> djempak, read marks mail and you'll know what it was supposed to be
[08:26] <ThreeDayMonk> from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ashcroft
[08:26] <ThreeDayMonk> not rumsfeld, sorry :-)
[08:26] <socomm> djempak: some people construe it in a sexual manner.
[08:26] <zenwhen> Oh, well it is going to keep Ubuntu off a lot of computers It could have been used on.
[08:26] <zenwhen> A lot of people dont go for smut in their OS.
[08:26] <djempak> __daniel, read that
[08:26] <sivang> ThreeDayMonk : that is sad man, plain sad.
[08:26] <djempak> socomm, yeah =/
[08:26] <Anna> Hi there. So I've downloaded some TT fonts, now what?
[08:26] <mirak_> zenwhen, are you aware you can change all of it about 3 seconds after you log-in????
[08:26] <socomm> Anna: install them.
[08:26] <Anna> lol
[08:27] <Anna> how?
[08:27] <rublind> Magic. ^_^
[08:27] <zenwhen> mirak_, these people who care shouldnt have to.
[08:27] <socomm> Anna: with your computer, duh.
[08:27] <ThreeDayMonk> sacrifice a goat and pray to John Ashcroft
[08:27] <zenwhen> Im not saying it bothers me.
[08:27] <toyowheelin> sivang, I have no problem with the login screen but its not me that I am removing it for
[08:27] <mirak_> zenwhen: hahaha, never thought id hear a *nix user complain about having a choice
[08:27] <djempak> toyowheelin, so wait, it's for your professors?
[08:28] <socomm> Anna: http://www.hackorama.com/fonts.shtml
[08:28] <toyowheelin> its for the rules of the class
[08:28] <zenwhen> mirak_, its not a choice if it is made the default
[08:28] <zenwhen> You are forced to see it the first time
[08:28] <toyowheelin> maintain a profesional immage dosent include barly dressed people
[08:28] <mirak_> zenwhen: so you are telling me you cant change it???? tell whoever doesnt like it to blink, by then it will be gone
[08:29] <djempak> why does this have to be so professional?
[08:29] <djempak> can't it be fun?
[08:29] <zenwhen> Yeah, thats the point of Linux.
[08:29] <zenwhen> Just a fun free flying OS it is.
[08:29] <ThreeDayMonk> djempak: yeah, windows xp's teletubbies theme ain't all that professional :-)
[08:29] <Anna> There has GOT to be an easier way...
[08:29] <djempak> lol
[08:29] <toyowheelin> it can be fun I just cant have it fun you other people can do what you want with it I dotn care I just have to get rid of it
[08:29] <socomm> djempak: install Lesbian GNU/Linux
[08:29] <socomm> ;)
[08:30] <socomm> Anna: if you've got KDE installed you can install them via KControl.
[08:30] <mirak_> all i have to say is ubuntu is the reason that i am sticking with linux, i dont care it they were all fat and completely naked, they are just pictures, its what is un=der them that counts
[08:30] <djempak> socomm, isn't that the one with "porn-get"?
[08:30] <Anna> I'm on Ubuntu/Gnome
[08:30] <baHam> Anna, cool
[08:30] <andersaa> doesn't nautilus have a font thing?
[08:30] <toyowheelin> lol djempak
[08:30] <socomm> Anna: `apt-get install kde'
[08:30] <andersaa> I think 2.6 did... so I'm sure 2.8 does
[08:30] <mirak_> i hate kde.........
[08:30] <zenwhen> as do I
[08:31] <toyowheelin> KDE is cool
[08:31] <baHam> Anna, keep gnome.. kde sux
[08:31] <andersaa> installing the entire kde package to get fonts is not a good idea
[08:31] <socomm> djempak: yes.
[08:31] <zenwhen> KDE is the reason a lot of people stick with Windows.
[08:31] <baHam> :\
[08:31] <Anna> I don't want to install kde, I want to install some TT fonts
[08:31] <toyowheelin> I dont really like gnome
[08:31] <baHam> kde sux
[08:31] <andersaa> couldnt you put em in .fonts/ or something like that
[08:31] <mirak_> zenwhen, atleast we agree on something
[08:31] <djempak> when I'm using a desktop environment, I can never choose between GNOME and KDE ;)
[08:31] <baHam> http://img71.exs.cx/img71/3006/Screenshot13.jpg
[08:31] <andersaa> c'mon people, cut the kde/gnome crap ;)
[08:31] <Anna> no, I have no writing access
[08:31] <djempak> or ratpoison an ion
[08:31] <socomm> Anna: give me a second.
[08:31] <zenwhen> KDE is gaudy and ugly. Its less professional that naked pictures on the login screen.
[08:31] <baHam> http://img71.exs.cx/img71/3006/Screenshot13.jpg <-- :> my desktop on gnome.. owns kde ;)
[08:31] <zenwhen> than*
[08:31] <vrln> Anna: microsoft core fonts by any chance?
[08:32] <__daniel> Anna, couldn't you find them in a package you could install via synaptic?
[08:32] <vrln> if yes, they can be installed with apt-get
[08:32] <mirak_> zenwhen, i agree, not to mention kde doenst really work for me as a desktop, seems to buggy
[08:32] <fargon> Hi All!! Newbie here! Can someone point me to a KDE app that will let me display a calender on the desktop, like rainlender does on windows?
[08:32] <Anna> yes but not as in the in the debian package
[08:32] <djempak> fargon, look for "SuperKaramba" IIRC
[08:32] <andersaa> fargon: gdesklets/karamba, you can run anything you like on your desktop
[08:32] <andersaa> or superkaramba
[08:32] <Anna> sorry, no the synaptic doesn't list mscorefonts
[08:32] <__daniel> fargon, gdesklets would on a gnome desktop
[08:32] <zenwhen> mirak_, only including Gnome is the best thing about Ubuntu.
[08:32] <toyowheelin> baHam, good job on the mods
[08:33] <Arvind-NL> Hi, what package contains the human iconset?
[08:33] <vrln> msttcorefonts is the package name
[08:33] <toyowheelin> like the icons
[08:33] <The_Bell> hello
[08:33] <vrln> iirc
[08:33] <socomm> Anna: mscorefonts are commercial, you have to install that by hand.
[08:33] <Arvind-NL> Hi, what package contains the human iconset? Or human artwork?
[08:33] <baHam> ;)
[08:33] <fargon> Thanks djempak, andersaa, __daniel
[08:33] <baHam> that's gnome ownage
[08:33] <baHam> :>
[08:33] <mirak_> zenwhen: well i wouldnt mind if there was maybe xfce too, not thatd id use it over gnome, but i can tolerate xfce
[08:33] <The_Bell> anyone knows where to find the kernel sources and config file used to compile the default ubuntu kernel?
[08:33] <carlos> Arvind-NL: ubuntu-artwork
[08:33] <toyowheelin> baHam, I still dont like gnome
[08:33] <The_Bell> I need those to compile a DRI module from a CVS tree and I don't have them
[08:33] <socomm> The_Bell: /boot if I"m not mistaken.
[08:34] <socomm> s/"/'
[08:34] <baHam> toyowheelin, so use windows
[08:34] <Anna> socomm you're wrong, mscorefonts are released with an EULA and Debian has a package but I don't know the URL for the repository...
[08:34] <toyowheelin> no I use KDE
[08:34] <djempak> ion is probably my favorite window manager
[08:34] <mirak_> toyowheelin, same thing
[08:34] <socomm> Anna: EULA == License material.
[08:34] <toyowheelin> lol @ mirak_
[08:34] <mirak_> djempak, you are very brave, ion scares me
[08:34] <djempak> mirak_, lol
[08:35] <SuperLag> toyowheelin: you run KDE on Ubuntu?
[08:35] <toyowheelin> yes
[08:35] <Anna> Yes, but that license for the mscorefonts includes that you can just suck them off the web and install them on any system you want
[08:35] <The_Bell> thanks socomm
[08:35] <djempak> mirak_, yeah, it's pretty weird at first, but it's really interesting
[08:35] <theantix> toyowheelin: just curious, why do you use KDE on ubuntu instead of a KDE based distro?  not trying to flame you, but still curious
[08:35] <andersaa> Anna: which prevents the use of a binary package..
[08:35] <zenwhen> Gnome is part of the Ubuntu philosophy.
[08:35] <socomm> The_Bell: I think `make oldconfig' or something.
[08:35] <mirak_> djempak, im a newb, dont know too many commands, so i nned the gui atm to function
[08:36] <Anna> http://packages.debian.org/testing/graphics/msttcorefonts.html (now you believe me?)
[08:36] <toyowheelin> because I wanted a distro the runs amd64 easly not like gentoo and not one as broken as mandrake 64
[08:36] <zenwhen> KDE is too "teeny boppin overclocker" for Ubuntu.
[08:36] <djempak> mirak_, ah
[08:36] <socomm> Anna: I've installed them by hand.
[08:36] <theantix> toyowheelin: ah, that makes sense -- thanks :-)
[08:37] <Anna> If I had writing access in my /fonts directory, I could just drag them over.... anyone know how I get GUI writing access in Ubuntu?
[08:37] <toyowheelin> I suppose I could have gone with regular debian
[08:37] <mirak_> djempak, i wish i had the skills to use ion...................give me time
[08:37] <andersaa> Anna: could try to run sudo nautilus (or gtksu or whatever that's called, sorry, I can't remember) and change it from there
[08:37] <Bentley> hi, i just installed ubuntu on my laptop.  If I close the lid, the computer locksup and needs to be hard-booted.  Can someone point me in the right direction to change the power-saving settings?  Is there a gnome/X-based config tool for this?
[08:38] <socomm> Anna: sudo nautilus
[08:38] <mirak_> bentley, good question...ill be in that boat soon
[08:38] <Anna> andersaa: That is outside my ability
[08:38] <socomm> Anna: you may have to `kill -9 nautilus' before that though.
[08:38] <andersaa> Bentley: you could try to turn it off in the display adapter, I belive that's called when you close the lid
[08:39] <SuperLag> toyowheelin: Gentoo isn't hard.  Just tedious.
[08:39] <djempak> mirak_, you can have a "FloatWS" in ion also
[08:39] <andersaa> Anna: applications -> system tools -> root terminal, then write nautilus
[08:39] <andersaa> and change it from nautilus (that's the gnome browser)
[08:39] <andersaa> note *might* work, if it doesn't just close those windows ;)
[08:39] <Anna> Sure, socomm, I will trust someone who greeted me with taunts
[08:40] <andersaa> which directory are you trying to change?
[08:40] <socomm> Anna: What?
[08:40] <Anna> OK thanks andersaa, Ill try that
[08:40] <Bentley> andersaa - u mean in the Advanced tab for the Screensaver settings?  (Display Power Management)
[08:40] <andersaa> Bentley: yes, worth a try
[08:40] <socomm> Anna: run this command from the terminal `sudo nautilus --no-desktop'
[08:40] <toyowheelin> SuperLag, I tried to install it on this machine and just ended up giving up due to lack of time
[08:40] <socomm> Anna: that's what you want.
[08:40] <andersaa> yeah, slap on --no-desktop on that
[08:41] <Bentley> ok - I changed it, I'll shut the lid now ... i ssuspect I'll be rebooting, so BRB
[08:41] <baHam> a good ftp program ?
[08:41] <socomm> baHam: gftp
[08:41] <toyowheelin> I would probabally try to install it again if I had some time
[08:42] <vrln> Anna: msttcorefonts package can be found in universe
[08:42] <vrln> just edit /etc/apt/sources.list to enable it
[08:42] <eaino> can I just sudo apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade from the first preview to the new RC1 ? 
[08:43] <vrln> after that you can install it with apt-get, it should work fine
[08:43] <Skif> eaine: yes
[08:43] <Anna> "write: nautilus is not logged in"
[08:43] <eaino> thanks...
[08:43] <The_Bell> i'll downloads the kernel source from kernel.org because I don't see the 2.6.8.1 source in the apt repositories
[08:43] <toyowheelin> what is the latest version of ubuntu
[08:44] <andersaa> sorry, I gotta go, so whoever was expecting help from me will have to look elsewhere
[08:44] <Anna> vrln: I checked in universe but did not find it
[08:44] <Anna> I searched and looked manually
[08:45] <toyowheelin> how do you know what kernel you have
[08:45] <socomm> Anna: you'll have to edit your /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:45] <djempak> toyowheelin, uname -a
[08:45] <toyowheelin> thanks djempak
[08:45] <djempak> np
[08:45] <vrln> Anna: are you sure? because it's listed in http://archive.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/dists/warty/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz
[08:46] <toyowheelin> 2.6.8.1-2 thats what I have I dont know why The_Bell cant find it
[08:46] <vrln> perhaps you forgot to apt-get update after enabling universe
[08:46] <Anna> Perhaps I have to update my list.. let me check and try. 
[08:47] <socomm> The_Bell: linux-source-2.6.8.1
[08:47] <socomm> Anna: everytime you edit your /etc/apt/sources.list it is a good idea to run `apt-get update'.
[08:47] <toyowheelin> I really should learn how to compile new kernels
[08:48] <Skif> toyo: it's not as much fun as it sounds, trust me
[08:48] <djempak> toyowheelin, hardest part is fine tuning your kernel config, but once you do that, you don't have to change much everytime a new kernel comes out
[08:49] <Anna> vrln:, yes indeed they were there after the update, I'll install them now
[08:49] <toyowheelin> Skif, I have done it in my half install attempt at gentoo
[08:49] <toyowheelin> just never done it on a "working" linux install
[08:49] <ThreeDayMonk> hmm... I installed Skype, but its icon doesn't show in the tray - ot's in its own floating window
[08:50] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: that's because skype is a KDE application.
[08:50] <ThreeDayMonk> yeah, I know
[08:50] <ThreeDayMonk> but I also know that there is a framework for integrating the system tray
[08:51] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: GNOME doesn't intergrate KDE's systray.
[08:51] <ThreeDayMonk> oh
[08:51] <ThreeDayMonk> only vice-versa?
[08:51] <Anna> It's done!
[08:51] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: at least not how this GNOME was compiled.
[08:51] <Skif> hrm.. okay, I'm trying to do things the "ubuntu way" here... is there a way in that GUI to add a new user and give them sudo privs, or is the only way to edit /etc/sudoers ?
[08:51] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: As far as I know yes, kde does support gnome's systray.
[08:52] <ThreeDayMonk> yeah - I've seen it working with gaim in kde's tray
[08:52] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: you may have to give configure an extra argument for kde's systray stuff when you compile gnome.
[08:52] <djempak> hrrm, didn't freedesktop.org make a specification for applications using the system tray?
[08:52] <ThreeDayMonk> djempak: yeah, I thought so
[08:52] <socomm> djempak: you probably need to specify it when you configure gnome.
[08:52] <ThreeDayMonk> perhaps it actually requires kde to be installed, not just qt
[08:53] <djempak> socomm, ah
[08:53] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: no I have QT installed still won't intergrate.
[08:53] <zenwhen> I solve all of these issues by not touching anything that involves qt.
[08:53] <zenwhen> lol
[08:53] <ThreeDayMonk> QT or KDE?
[08:53] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: QT+KDE.
[08:53] <djempak> is GnomeMeeting in Ubuntu?
[08:53] <toyowheelin> and its times like this I am glad to be a KDE user
[08:53] <socomm> djempak: yes.
[08:53] <djempak> nice
[08:54] <zenwhen> I dont need anything KDE offers.
[08:54] <ThreeDayMonk> toyowheelin: me too - never used gnome before; I always found it a bit... amateurish
[08:54] <socomm> zenwhen: k3b?
[08:54] <toyowheelin> yeah
[08:54] <zenwhen> Theres superior apps for everything I need in Gnome.
[08:54] <zenwhen> Nope
[08:54] <zenwhen> No need
[08:54] <zenwhen> Learn to use the CLI.
[08:54] <zenwhen> This is Linux not windows.
[08:54] <toyowheelin> lol
[08:54] <socomm> zenwhen:I know how to use the CLI jackass.
[08:55] <ThreeDayMonk> many things cannot be done in the CLI - non-roman/cyrillic languages for example
[08:55] <zenwhen> Oh
[08:55] <socomm> zenwhen: k3b is just makes it easier to burn cds with cdrdao
[08:55] <toyowheelin> KDE just works hehe
[08:55] <zenwhen> Easier if you need it to be I huess.
[08:55] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: I think it can be done, just need some sort of patch.
[08:55] <zenwhen> guess*
[08:55] <baHam> k3b is a good program ;P
[08:56] <zenwhen> It doesnt add to my productivity in the least.
[08:56] <socomm> zenwhen: see another vote for k3b :)
[08:56] <zenwhen> Good
[08:56] <theantix> two good kde apps: k3b and scribus
[08:56] <zenwhen> Windows users using Linux are very happy with K3B.
[08:56] <zenwhen> Im glad to see that.
[08:56] <socomm> zenwhen: so are FreeBSD users :)
[08:56] <zenwhen> whoa
[08:56] <zenwhen> name droping 8)
[08:57] <socomm> B^)
[08:57] <ThreeDayMonk> socomm: you can display it if you can get the framebuffer console working, but typing is very hard
[08:57] <socomm> ThreeDayMonk: you probably need a different keyboard.
[08:57] <hypn1> for iso, nautilus is easy \:D/
[08:57] <socomm> hypn1: audio cd's are alittle trickier since cdrecord doesn't record them too well.
[08:58] <socomm> hypn1: at least not in my experience.
[08:58] <jedix> zenwhen, my complaint is the .iso support
[08:58] <jedix> I can never figure out how to burn one, so I use cdrecord
[08:58] <zenwhen> Oh
[08:59] <zenwhen> Gnome 2.8 support burning ISO's with a right click.
[08:59] <zenwhen> supports*
[08:59] <zenwhen> I find it to be quite easy.
[09:00] <ThreeDayMonk> socomm: nope, you need more than just a keyboard to type several thousand characters in Japanese
[09:00] <Skif> 3dm: really?  'coz I've used canna, and it worked just fine
[09:00] <Anna> The thing about GNOME (or Linux) burning which has confused me is the inability, unlike as I did under Windows, to write *and* delete *individual* files on a CD-RW
[09:01] <cosmoperis> hi everyone! 
[09:01] <Anna> hi
[09:02] <cosmoperis> please I need some help
[09:02] <jedix> damnit
[09:02] <jedix> zenwhen, how do you have gnome 2.8?
[09:03] <doko> cosmoperis: just ask
[09:03] <Skif> cosmoperis: ask away
[09:03] <zenwhen> Im using Slackware with Dropline Gnome at the moment.
[09:03] <zenwhen> :)
[09:03] <jedix> oh
[09:03] <zenwhen> Im waiting for Ubuntu to go final before installing it again.
[09:03] <zenwhen> and mostly lurjing here to see whats going on
[09:03] <The_Bell> who should I contact to help in translations for locales in ubuntu?
[09:03] <zenwhen> lurking*
[09:03] <jedix> I'm using ubuntu on an amd64 and I can't install doom3 :(
[09:04] <zenwhen> jedix, it was easy in Slackware.
[09:04] <cosmoperis> I have a rtl8139/810x and doesn't work on my ubuntu
[09:04] <socomm> jedix: ubuntu comes with GNOME 2.8
[09:04] <zenwhen> Yeah
[09:04] <Espectro> dont tell us what you cant do, tell us what stops you from doing so
[09:04] <zenwhen> Gnome 2.8 is wonderful.
[09:04] <jedix> zenwhen, are you running a 64bit os?
[09:04] <socomm> jedix: does doom3 have 64 bit binaries?
[09:04] <jedix> no
[09:04] <zenwhen> jedix, no. I dont see the point.
[09:05] <jedix> which is the problem..
[09:05] <zenwhen> I use my amd64 amchine as a server with Red Hat Enterprise.
[09:05] <jedix> because it can;t find glib2.0
[09:05] <zenwhen> machine*
[09:05] <zenwhen> I always use Intel chips for my workstations.
[09:06] <zenwhen> I have less headaches with Intel CPU's and chipsets.
[09:06] <socomm> I'm out of here.
[09:06] <Espectro> jedix, so?
[09:06] <jedix> Espectro, so it won't install
[09:07] <Espectro> is glib2 installed?
[09:07] <jedix> Espectro, default install of ubuntu
[09:09] <Espectro> apt-cache search glib2
[09:09] <jedix> Espectro, it is
[09:09] <The_Bell> jedix, you need the emulation libraries
[09:09] <The_Bell> to play doom 3
[09:10] <The_Bell> you need them to play enemy territory too
[09:12] <jedix> The_Bell, what libs are they?
[09:13] <speel> hey has any one recieved the free ubuntu cds?
[09:13] <Noodles> It's not released yet.
[09:14] <Noodles> I assume the CDs don't go out until it is.
[09:14] <jedix> The_Bell, what package provies the emilation libs?
[09:15] <Anna> Ahhhh. Opera and Verdana. I have arrived in my comfort zone
[09:15] <ThreeDayMonk> this is awful - I can't even type when I'm downloading something
[09:16] <ThreeDayMonk> 3/4 of characters typed are dropped.
[09:17] <ThreeDayMonk> is the ubuntu kernel compiled without preemption etc.?
[09:17] <The_Bell> any .deb package with acrobat reader?
[09:17] <The_Bell> jedix, glibc-emul-libs or something
[09:17] <Espectro> The_Bell, wtf are you talking about, none of that doesn't even exist
[09:18] <The_Bell> Espectro, you need to install 32 bits emulation libs
[09:18] <The_Bell> in linux
[09:18] <The_Bell> to use 32 bits binaries on an amd64 machine
[09:18] <The_Bell> and they exist because I had them installed on gentoo
[09:18] <Espectro> according to http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom/ you dont need anything
[09:19] <ploum> hi
[09:19] <rublind> Okay, who wants to help me with my sound problems?
[09:19] <ploum> What's the minimum space requirement for Ubuntu
[09:19] <ploum> can I install Ubuntu on 1.5 Go ?
[09:19] <rublind> A couple of gigs
[09:19] <Espectro> you need to $ USE="nptl" emerge glibc if doom3 doesn't work on gentoo
[09:19] <The_Bell> emul-linux-x86-glibc
[09:19] <The_Bell> Description: GNU C Library for emulation of 32bit x86 on amd64
[09:19] <Skif> ploum: yeah, but it'll be tight
[09:19] <ploum> Skif, 2Go then ?
[09:19] <rublind> Can someone help me get my sound to work?
[09:19] <The_Bell> doom 3 isn't compiled in 64 bits
[09:19] <Skif> ploum: that would be more comfy, yes
[09:19] <jedix> that package does not exist in ubuntu
[09:20] <ploum> rublind, what's your problem ?
[09:20] <The_Bell> you won't be able to run it if you don't have the emulation libs
[09:20] <Espectro> There are no amd64 builds planned at this time. However the 32 bit binaries will run in a native amd64 environement.
[09:20] <rublind> My sound isn't working
[09:20] <rublind> At all.
[09:20] <ploum> Skif, I must install Ubuntu and W98 (for Internet Explorer) on a 3Go disk
[09:20] <rublind> I installed ubuntu yesterday.
[09:20] <ploum> 1Go for W98 will then be enough
[09:20] <The_Bell> Espectro, will run if you're using a 32 bits system
[09:20] <ploum> rublind what's your soundcard ?
[09:21] <rublind> Creative Labs Audigy
[09:21] <ThreeDayMonk> 1Gb is more than enough for 98
[09:21] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones and Ng: I logged a bug for me hdparm problem that we talked about yesterday: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2455
[09:21] <ploum> ok, thx
[09:21] <Espectro> The_Bell, your "library" is just a bug in gentoo which they had to fix if you didn't want to recompile glibc
[09:21] <ThreeDayMonk> you can trim it down further - I had a 4MB version
[09:21] <Espectro> it isn't needed anywhere else
[09:21] <rublind> ploum: So, uh, what do I do?
[09:22] <The_Bell> ok man
[09:22] <The_Bell> there's no need to be rude
[09:22] <jedix> Espectro, either way it still won't install
[09:22] <jedix> :/
[09:22] <ThreeDayMonk> ploum: this might help: http://www.etek.chalmers.se/~e8gus/nano98/
[09:23] <ploum> rublind, is it like this ?
[09:23] <ploum> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2296
[09:23] <Espectro> jedix, you have other issues, and none of them are listed in the doom faq, so report a bug
[09:23] <rublind> One second, let me see.
[09:23] <rublind> I suppose it's similar. I don't know.
[09:23] <rublind> No, that's not it.
[09:24] <rublind> ubuntu see's my card, but I think it's trying to play the sound through the motherboard, rather than the card.
[09:24] <ploum> do you know which alsa module your sound card need 
[09:24] <ploum> ?
[09:24] <rublind> ... no.
[09:24] <rublind> (I'm new to linux, and ubuntu)
[09:25] <jpvcx> rublind:emu10k1?
[09:25] <rublind> jpvcx: what?
[09:26] <ploum> rublind, type lspci and give what's related to your soundcard
[09:26] <rublind> Okay, one second.
[09:26] <ploum> (lspci list a lot of things about all pci port of your PC, and your soundcard is on a PCI port)
[09:27] <rublind> Okay, let me find it.
[09:27] <rublind> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2296
[09:27] <rublind> Oops.
[09:27] <rublind> 0000:02:02.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port
[09:27] <rublind> 0000:02:02.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy (rev 03)
[09:27] <SmokingFire> rublind: I had a similair problem when using red hat, if had my usb cam attached (with build in mic) it would try to play sounds over the mic of the webcam. Never fixed that though. 
[09:28] <rublind> But you're on ubuntu now, right?
[09:28] <SmokingFire> yes but webcam is not attached
[09:28] <rublind> My sound only worked in the Fedora Distro, never in Suse, or Knoppix.
[09:28] <rublind> Or ubuntu
[09:28] <SmokingFire> so i'm curious for the solution for your problem.
[09:28] <DanC> I couldn't figure out how to add user accounts from the gnome menu in my newly-installed ubuntu system; I had to use the CLI. and I forgot /etc/sudoers
[09:28] <SmokingFire> there must be a file were the audio device is set.
[09:28] <rublind> Lets' try and find it out then, shall we? :)
[09:28] <Se7h> ahahah, just a few minutes ago, one friend told me: "hey, i've installed ubuntu, and i hated it"
[09:29] <Se7h> i asked why and he answered me
[09:29] <rublind> ... what'd he say?
[09:29] <jedix> is there no one running ubuntu 64 that has doom 3 installed?
[09:29] <Se7h> "cause i had no problems with it"
[09:29] <Se7h> LOL
[09:29] <rublind> jedix: I could install doom3...
[09:30] <toyowheelin> jedix, if you give me doom 3 than I could
[09:30] <toyowheelin> lol
[09:31] <joolz> I just installed the 686 kernel... Is it safe to remove the 386 one?
[09:31] <jedix> toyowheelin, try the demo
[09:31] <toyowheelin> lol
[09:31] <jedix> rublind, can you try?
[09:31] <rublind> Is there a way to change the start up picture from those people. (not the login, but after)
[09:31] <rublind> I suppose.
[09:31] <toyowheelin> jedix, it wont work on my system anyway
[09:31] <rublind> I need the instructions.
[09:31] <rublind> I'm on 386 if that changes anything.
[09:31] <jedix> it won't install because it is looking for glibc-2.0 in the installer instead of glibc-2.1
[09:31] <rublind> ... then download glibc-2.0
[09:32] <rublind> Is it going to kill you?
[09:32] <ploum> rublind : lsmod|grep emu
[09:32] <toyowheelin> jedix, where do you get the linux demo
[09:32] <jedix> ... I need to install glibc-2.1
[09:32] <rublind> What do you need from that?
[09:32] <SmokingFire> rublind: you mean change the background image?
[09:32] <ploum> whole thing
[09:33] <rublind> Not the background, but there's a picture, with the two girls and that freaky looking guy. >_<
[09:33] <SmokingFire> rublind: you mean the loading images
[09:33] <jedix> toyowheelin, sec
[09:33] <rublind> snd_util_mem            4608  1 snd_emu10k1
[09:33] <rublind> snd_hwdep               9120  1 snd_emu10k1
[09:33] <rublind> snd_ac97_codec         59268  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_intel8x0
[09:33] <rublind> snd_pcm                85540  3 snd_emu10k1,snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm_oss
[09:33] <rublind> snd_page_alloc         11144  3 snd_emu10k1,snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
[09:33] <rublind> snd_rawmidi            23232  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_mpu401_uart
[09:33] <SmokingFire> rublind: when its loading gnome
[09:33] <rublind> snd_seq_device          7944  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi
[09:33] <rublind> snd                    50660  16 snd_emu10k1,snd_util_mem,snd_hwdep,snd_intel8x0 ,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_ rawmidi,snd_seq_device
[09:33] <rublind> Well, that didn't work as planned.
[09:33] <rublind> Yeah.
[09:33] <chris__> test
[09:34] <jedix> toyowheelin,  http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/doom/
[09:34] <jedix> has torrents
[09:34] <rublind> >_<
[09:34] <rublind> To download Doom?
[09:34] <rublind> ... legally? >_<
[09:34] <jedix> yes
[09:34] <jedix> it's a demo
[09:34] <rublind> Oh, okay
[09:35] <jedix> basically I need glibc 2.1, is there a package for ubuntu?
[09:35] <toyowheelin> jedix, is there a 64bit ver or only x86
[09:35] <rublind> Use the Synaptic thing.
[09:36] <jedix> toyowheelin, x86 only
[09:36] <toyowheelin> damn
[09:36] <jedix> rublind, not listed under there.. maybe I can add a source to the list..?
[09:36] <rublind> I don't know.
[09:36] <rublind> You could try..
[09:36] <|trey|> jedix: prolly in universe...
[09:37] <jedix> |trey|, what?
[09:37] <|trey|> jedix: In repository list, activate the one that lists universe
[09:37] <jedix> in synaptic or elsewhere?
[09:37] <|trey|> In synaptic... 
[09:38] <jedix> |trey|, there isn't a universe listed in the repositories
[09:39] <The_Bell> edit /etc/apt/sources.list
[09:39] <The_Bell> and uncomment the two lines from the universe
[09:40] <jedix> they aren't listed there either
[09:40] <The_Bell> :?
[09:40] <The_Bell> they should be
[09:40] <The_Bell> i'm not in ubuntu now
[09:40] <The_Bell> ask someone to copy paste them
[09:41] <SmokingFire> jedix: launch synaptic
[09:41] <jonah> hi ! can anyone tell me how to find out the root-password. it was not set while installation process ...
[09:41] <jedix> SmokingFire, I'm that far :)
[09:41] <toyowheelin> thats sad when its easer to get a game illegaly than it is to get the legal demo
[09:41] <SmokingFire> jedix: and go to menu --> settings --> repositories and enable everything.
[09:41] <spab> hola
[09:41] <spab> alquien habla espaol?
[09:42] <jedix> SmokingFire, there are very few there.. and they are enabled
[09:42] <The_Bell> spab come to #ubuntu-es
[09:42] <SmokingFire> jedix: how many do you see?
[09:42] <spab> ok thx
[09:42] <jedix> SmokingFire, five
[09:42] <SmokingFire> jedix: let me check
[09:42] <jonah> no idea for the root-password ?
[09:43] <SmokingFire> jonah: there is no root password as there is no root
[09:44] <jedix> SmokingFire, I'm running amd64 port.. so there may be a difference there.
[09:44] <jonah> when i start synaptic, he asks for a root-password. and i do not have one. why no root ?
[09:44] <SmokingFire> jonah: everything works with sudo <command> but you need a root like console then enter sudo -s
[09:44] <SmokingFire> jedix: this is a fresh install?
[09:44] <SmokingFire> jonah: just enter your normal password
[09:45] <jedix> SmokingFire, yes
[09:45] <SmokingFire> jedix: you could copy and past my sources
[09:45] <jonah> if i choose : sudo -s, he asks for a password. 
[09:46] <SmokingFire> jonah: enter your normal user password
[09:46] <SmokingFire> jedix: enter in a console: sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list <enter password>
[09:48] <jedix> SmokingFire, I'm pretty good with this stuff.. just need the source :)
[09:49] <SmokingFire> ok
[09:49] <SmokingFire> jedix: at the bottom enter
[09:49] <SmokingFire> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty universe    
[09:49] <SmokingFire> deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty universe  
[09:49] <SmokingFire> you also want the windows codecs source?
[09:49] <SmokingFire> I also have these two extra sources:
[09:49] <SmokingFire> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ warty multiverse 
[09:49] <SmokingFire> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main 
[09:52] <jedix> SmokingFire, thanks, all I needed to do was add universe to the dir names to check for packages :)
[09:53] <aitrus> anyone know why i can't enable DMA on my IDE DVD drive?
[09:54] <ThreeDayMonk> OK, I've installed KDE... how do I switch the desktop manager to KDE?
[09:54] <jedix> hrm, still no glibc-2.1
[09:56] <jedix> SmokingFire, are you sure glibc 2.1 is in that source?
[09:57] <jedix> maybe I'll add the other two sources you listed.
[09:57] <rublind> Can anyone help me fix my sound?
[09:59] <|trey|> SmokingFire: any peticular reason you split up universe and multiverse?
[10:00] <|trey|> I group them because they are the non-supported Ubuntu sources... else they could be with main and restricted...
[10:00] <Despair> multiverse?
[10:00] <|trey|> Despair: non-free universe
[10:01] <Se7h> it was a bout time to  put j2re on repository
[10:01] <ploum> anyone have an idea on how to set up a Prism54 wifi card under ubuntu ?
[10:01] <|trey|> main = free supported, universe = free unsupported, restricted = non-free supported, multiverse = non-free unsupported.
[10:02] <ploum> |trey|, and how are build multiverse and universe ?
[10:02] <ploum> automatically from the Debian tree  ?
[10:03] <|trey|> ploum: they are just the rest of debian sid...
[10:03] <rublind> ploum, my sound isn't fixed.
[10:03] <rublind> And I unmuted everything.
[10:03] <ploum> thx |trey| 
[10:03] <ploum> rublind, how many tabs do you have in gnome sound control ?
[10:04] <rublind> Four
[10:04] <rublind> My sound card is the last one.
[10:07] <ploum> four ???
[10:07] <rublind> Yeah.
[10:07] <ploum> wow..
[10:07] <ploum> rather strange
[10:07] <rublind> One is Analog Devices AD1981A
[10:07] <ploum> and what are they 
[10:07] <ploum> ?
[10:08] <rublind> Another is SigmaTel STAC9721/23
[10:08] <rublind> Next is Intel 82801DB-ICH4
[10:08] <rublind> Last is Sound Blaster Audigy
[10:08] <rublind> The last one is the one I need.
[10:08] <ploum> and the third ?
[10:08] <ploum> ok, sorry
[10:08] <ploum> wow..
[10:08] <rublind> Too many?
[10:08] <ploum> it seems ;-)
[10:09] <ploum> lsmod|grep i8
[10:09] <rublind> I think it's trying to play sound through the third one, but I need it to play in the last one.
[10:09] <rublind> Done
[10:09] <ploum> yes, we will try to remove the third
[10:09] <ploum> and what's the output ?
[10:09] <rublind> Nothing
[10:09] <ploum> and lsmod|grep intel
[10:09] <SmokingFire> sorry |trey| and jedix normally gaim should work me when I was called
[10:10] <rublind> snd_intel8x0           33068  5
[10:10] <rublind> snd_ac97_codec         59268  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_intel8x0
[10:10] <rublind> snd_pcm                85540  3 snd_emu10k1,snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm_oss
[10:10] <rublind> snd_page_alloc         11144  3 snd_emu10k1,snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
[10:10] <rublind> gameport                4736  1 snd_intel8x0
[10:10] <rublind> snd_mpu401_uart         7296  1 snd_intel8x0
[10:10] <rublind> snd                    50660  20 snd_emu10k1,snd_util_mem,snd_hwdep,snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mpu401_uart,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq_device
[10:10] <rublind> intel_agp              20512  1
[10:10] <rublind> agpgart                31784  1 intel_agp
[10:10] <SmokingFire> jedix: let me look glib2.1 right?
[10:10] <|trey|> rublind: flood in #flood ONLY!
[10:10] <ploum> ok, that's enough : try "sudo rmmod snd_intel8x0"
[10:10] <SmokingFire> |trey|: I just copied and pasted the sources from somewhere
[10:10] <rublind> Sorry.
[10:11] <mirak_> smokingfire, good day
[10:11] <rublind> Error: Module snd_intel8x0 in use
[10:11] <|trey|> SmokingFire: can't have 'contrib' or 'non-free' mentions though... that would be bad for you...
[10:11] <SmokingFire> mirak_: hi
[10:11] <rublind> ploum, /msg me
[10:11] <SmokingFire> |trey|: its not legal?
[10:11] <mirak_> smokingfire, what is the topic??
[10:12] <SmokingFire> |trey|: ok but were are individuals not representing ubuntu in any way except being users.
[10:12] <baHam> IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
[10:12] <baHam> :D
[10:12] <speel> countdown till what
[10:12] <|trey|> SmokingFire: the resources aren't compatible...
[10:12] <|trey|> will fuck things up...
[10:12] <baHam> speel, it's a song -_-
[10:13] <speel> oo lol
[10:13] <mirak_> anyway to make the desktop icons smaller
[10:13] <SmokingFire> |trey|: its ok I have using it for some time and it still works
[10:13] <baHam> speel, it could be also the countdown til Hoary :D
[10:13] <|trey|> SmokingFire: ok  :/
[10:13] <jedix> SmokingFire, yes
[10:14] <SmokingFire> |trey|: and I know its use at you own risk.
[10:14] <speel> hoary is coming out in april isant it?
[10:14] <|trey|> speel: somewhere around there  :/
[10:14] <speel> heh to far to think about it now
[10:14] <SmokingFire> |trey|: but the same counts for any OS. I mean on Windows I need also to install third party applications.
[10:14] <mirak_> speel, yeah about mid april
[10:15] <SmokingFire> jedix: your still there?
[10:16] <baHam> speel, yeah :( I want it right now..
[10:16] <speel> lol , well the longer they better i suppose
[10:16] <SmokingFire> I just hope that they will grow the repositories and keep the CD same size and single.
[10:16] <speel> yea def
[10:17] <speel> ive only used the ubuntu live cd it looks promising and im tempted to use it but eh not sure
[10:18] <SmokingFire> If its really needed they could do a DVD, which contains next to ubuntu to most used applications from the repositories.
[10:18] <mirak_> quick....i need a linux bit torrent client?
[10:18] <speel> if some one gives me and ideal reason to use it il install it :P
[10:19] <theantix> SmokingFire: part of the appeal of ubuntu --at least for me -- is how spartan it is
[10:19] <theantix> mirak_: bittornado
[10:19] <mirak_> theantix, is it in synatic?
[10:19] <theantix> in universe, yes
[10:19] <mirak_> thnx
[10:19] <Despair> No gkrellm package? is it not 64bit clean or something?
[10:20] <SmokingFire> theantix: for me its the same but people always complain like include kde include this. Those should be ignored. But people on dialup or something should perhaps the chance of DVD (but nothing installed extra) which just uses the DVD as main reposistory.
[10:20] <baHam> hmm
[10:20] <baHam> does anybody run the fkin xorg on ubuntu r8 nw ?
[10:21] <SmokingFire> don't know of any fkin xorg
[10:21] <mirak_> theantix, will it add to the gnome menu??
[10:21] <baHam> fkin = fuckin :P
[10:21] <theantix> mirak_: no, it just handles bittorrent links from firefox or epiphany
[10:22] <mirak_> ah...ok
[10:22] <mirak_> theantix, do i need a firefox extension???
[10:22] <theantix> mirak_: nope, just install bittornado-gui and then click on a bittorrent link
[10:22] <mirak_> theantix, thnx, it just finished installing, ill try it out
[10:24] <theantix> I suggest you test with the Jon Stewart/Crossfire link on slashdot :-)
[10:25] <mirak_> what is the path to my home dir????
[10:25] <theantix> /home/$yourname/ ?
[10:25] <mirak_> im a newb, havent quite figured out the file system yet
[10:25] <mirak_> thnx
[10:26] <mirak_> didnt see /home there
[10:26] <mirak_> duh!!!!
[10:26] <SmokingFire> Anyone has used Blam!
[10:26] <bromley_> It takes some getting used to, especially if you are from a Micro$oft environment
[10:28] <mirak_> and that i am
[10:29] <bromley_> I have a question.  What is the best way of upgrading to the latest RC of Warty?  
[10:29] <guptan> how can I check whether network module loaded or not?
[10:29] <phin> anyone know how to get the hostap drivers to work?
[10:29] <jedix> SmokingFire, yeah
[10:29] <phin> or have a debian package with the binary?
[10:30] <theantix> SmokingFire: yes, I use blam from tseng's repository
[10:30] <jedix> SmokingFire, sorry, I got in the shower
[10:30] <phin> this source doesnt like me
[10:30] <SmokingFire> theantix: have you also used liferea?
[10:31] <SmokingFire> jedix: what exactly were you looking for?
[10:31] <theantix> SmokingFire: yes, I've used liferea too
[10:32] <SmokingFire> theantix: I'm using liferea now but it seems ubuntu team wants to support blam. I want to know which is better
[10:32] <jedix> SmokingFire, glibc-2.1
[10:32] <SmokingFire> theantix: from the screen shot it looks like that blam doesn't support catorgories.
[10:32] <jedix> SmokingFire, trying to get doom3 to run
[10:32] <theantix> Ubuntu doesn't have working mono in universe or main -- so right now liferea is technically better supported
[10:33] <theantix> which is better? they each have pros and cons
[10:33] <guptan> how can I check whether my network module loaded, is there anyway to setup ip and dns using shell
[10:34] <SmokingFire> jedix: weird I don't see it either
[10:37] <ushooz> I wish blam would dock in the system tray and disappear from my taskbar. Also wish it did not disappear form the systray when all the articles have been read
[10:37] <SmokingFire> jedix: I think its called libc<number> so libc6 in my case or libc6-i686 (optimized)
[10:37] <asdf_> how do i reset the debconf settings for a package?
[10:37] <theantix> ushooz: that is the feature I miss most as well
[10:38] <asdf_> when i do dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 it doesnt ask about my monitor anymore
[10:38] <SmokingFire> ushooz: liferea can do the first
[10:38] <ushooz> yeah, I am using lferea right now because of that. 
[10:40] <theantix> I also wish liferea or blam used spacebar to scroll down and to view the next message like straw does
[10:40] <ushooz> that would be nice
[10:40] <theantix> really if, you combine the best features of blam/straw/liferea you've got the perfect rss reader :-)
[10:40] <ushooz> I like the look and feel of Blam
[10:41] <SmokingFire> got url for straw?
[10:41] <SmokingFire> don't worry I got it
[10:42] <ushooz> does the default ubuntu kernel have acpi suspend?
[10:42] <jedix> SmokingFire, libc and glibc are different
[10:42] <SmokingFire> jedix: they are?
[10:43] <jedix> I think so
[10:43] <WW_> If I give the command "wget url-here" from a command line, where will the downloaded file be put?  In the current directory?
[10:43] <jedix> WW_, yes
[10:43] <SmokingFire> could not harm to install it anyway. Its ubuntu supported
[10:44] <WW_> jedix: Argh, that's not what I wanted to hear.
[10:44] <SmokingFire> I thought it was in /home
[10:44] <theantix> SmokingFire: http://www.nongnu.org/straw/
[10:44] <martink> jedix: nah, on GNU/Linux (ahem) libc6 == glibc2.x, maybe you mean libc and glib
[10:44] <SmokingFire> theantix: thanks
[10:44] <jedix> oh, ok martink 
[10:45] <jedix> but I have to have libc6 installed, right?
[10:45] <SmokingFire> yes and also the optimized version libc6-i686
[10:46] <martink> jedix: without libc6, almost nothing works. If you look at dpkg -p libc6, you see that it's built from glibc 2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu?
[10:46] <WW_> I used wget to download an ISO, but after download finished, it printed this:
[10:46] <WW_> utime(warty-live-20041015-20.iso): No such file or directory
[10:46] <SmokingFire> jedix: I think its already installed otherwise gnome would not work.
[10:46] <asdf_> how do i get dpkg-reconfigure to ask me about my monitor?
[10:46] <SmokingFire> WW_: have you looked in your home?
[10:46] <WW_> SmokingFire: Yup, but it's not there.
[10:47] <SmokingFire> WW_: then Computer--> search for files
[10:47] <WW_> I didn't use sudo to run wget. Would that matter?
[10:47] <jedix> yeah, I need a new versuon of glib
[10:47] <mirak_> anyone knopw how to make the icons smaller????
[10:47] <jedix> 2.1 instead of 2.0
[10:47] <SmokingFire> jedix: its for doom right?
[10:47] <mirak_> desktop icons, like folder icaons???
[10:48] <jedix> SmokingFire, yes
[10:48] <jedix> SmokingFire, on amd64
[10:48] <WW_> SmokingFire: No files found
[10:48] <toyowheelin> jedix, im still downloading doom3 demo
[10:48] <jedix> honestly, I am seriously thinking of going back to 32bit debian.
[10:48] <WW_> lamont, are you around?
[10:49] <SmokingFire> jedix: look for libglib in synaptic, however no version 2.1
[10:49] <jedix> yeah, I know :/
[10:50] <toyowheelin> yea jedixthere isnt a linux 64bit flash player out yet ether or at least one I could find
[10:50] <rublind> Uh, didn't work.
[10:50] <jedix> toyowheelin, yeah? that sucks.
[10:50] <jedix> but glib is at like version 2.3
[10:51] <asdf_> why isnt dpkg-reconfigure --priority=low xserver-xfree86 asking about my monitor
[10:51] <mirak_> anyone know of a ubuntu aim icon.......one that displays on you chat window, not a gaim app icon
[10:51] <rublind> ploum it didn't work
[10:52] <toyowheelin> mirak_, make one in gimp
[10:53] <SmokingFire> jedix: you should not look at the version of the name of the package but in the installed version collumn
[10:53] <mirak_> toyowheelin: hmmm......what a good idea
[10:53] <mirak_> totyowheelin, havent used gimp yet, good reason to try it out
[10:54] <toyowheelin> lol yeah
[10:54] <ploum> rublind, F***
[10:54] <ploum> so I cannot help you anymore
[10:54] <phin> just use 32bit with 64bit
[10:54] <phin> use 64bit for what you can
[10:54] <phin> and 32bit for shit thats not avail yet
[10:54] <rublind> Okay.
[10:54] <rublind> Thanks anyways.
[10:55] <rublind> Anyone else know how sound cards work in ubuntu?
[10:55] <asdf_> why isnt dpkg-reconfigure --priority=low xserver-xfree86 asking about my monitor
[10:56] <toyowheelin> rublind, I was having problems with mine too thats partially why I switched to KDE cuz it has a better sound config
[10:56] <christophe> After a fresh install postfix is not happy, in syslog I see: localhost postfix/local[13596] : fatal: open database /etc/aliases.db: No such file or directory
[10:57] <lamont> christophe: yeah.  as root run newaliases.
[10:57] <chowells> christophe: try newaliases
[10:57] <WW_> Does anyone know what it means when wget says:
[10:57] <lamont> fixed already
[10:57] <rublind> toyowheelin, I don't like KDE
[10:57] <WW_> utime(warty-live-20041015-20.iso): No such file or directory
[10:57] <toyowheelin> rublind, ok
[10:57] <WW_> after supposedly downloading a file?
[10:57] <rublind> There's got to be a way in gnome.
[10:57] <toyowheelin> have fun
[10:57] <toyowheelin> lol
[10:58] <christophe> thanks both of you
[10:58] <WW_> Hey lamont, I think something went wrong with my download of the live CD.
[10:58] <christophe> is there a place on the web for such problems
[10:58] <christophe> like a faq
[10:58] <lamont> WW_: sigh
[10:58] <lamont> I'm hoping to build another one in the near future with better artwork, etc.
[10:59] <jedix> toyowheelin, how's the download going?
[10:59] <toyowheelin> its slow
[10:59] <toyowheelin> 48%
[11:00] <WW_> lamont: All I did was run wget with the URL as the only argument.  It proceeded to download the file, but after it finished, I got the message shown above.
[11:00] <chowells> lamont: i did mention this to daniel stone, but just fyi the live cd wouldn't work on my laptop which has an external USB DVD drive since it expects an atapi device under /dev/hd[a-z] [0-9] , and couldn't mount the root file system
[11:00] <toyowheelin> its going at 50KB/s :(
[11:00] <WW_> lamont: Does wget have to be run with sudo?
[11:00] <lamont> chowells: ouch
[11:00] <lamont> WW_: no.
[11:01] <lamont> not sure what happened to you - does the file exist on your machine?
[11:01] <toyowheelin> WW_, it depends on the folder you are in when you execute it cuz it downloads to the pwd
[11:01] <jedix> toyowheelin, how much longer?  I can send it but it will only be going 40kb/s
[11:02] <toyowheelin> jedix, its downloading 10KB/s faster than you can send it
[11:02] <jedix> yeah :/
[11:02] <jedix> stupid upload restriction
[11:02] <WW_> I ran wget from my home directory.
[11:02] <toyowheelin> lol
[11:02] <jedix> I can try.. but I think that's the limit.
[11:03] <jedix> it's 7.5mbs anyways.. should take 30mins?
[11:03] <toyowheelin> jedix, thats ok it will finish in 30min
[11:03] <asdf_> why isnt dpkg-reconfigure --priority=low xserver-xfree86 asking about my monitor
[11:03] <jedix> hehe
[11:03] <jedix> cool.
[11:03] <jedix> asdf_, stop saying that.
[11:03] <asdf_> no
[11:03] <asdf_> why isnt dpkg-reconfigure --priority=low xserver-xfree86 asking about my monitor
[11:03] <WW_> I think that "utime(...iso): No such file or directory" message is a clue, but I don't know what it means.
[11:04] <asdf_> i was told the linux community is a friendly helpful place
[11:04] <asdf_> but nobody will help me
[11:04] <toyowheelin> asdf_, because anything to do with the xserver messes with your monitor and vid card and stuff
[11:04] <jedix> asdf_, as long as you are
[11:04] <toyowheelin> DEAL WITH IT
[11:04] <asdf_> i dont understand toyowheelin
[11:04] <jedix> asdf_, what is wrong with it?
[11:05] <asdf_> i want to change my monitor settings and it wont let me
[11:05] <asdf_> it doesnt ask about it anymore
[11:05] <asdf_> it stopped asking
[11:05] <jedix> asdf_, what do you want to change them to?
[11:06] <netdur> why mount partitions in /media instead of /mnt ?
[11:06] <asdf_> i want to change the resolutions and frequency range
[11:06] <asdf_> i think you can get it to let you pick from a list of monitors
[11:06] <jedix> asdf_, you could always edit the file by hand
[11:06] <asdf_> id like that
[11:06] <baHam> http://img92.exs.cx/img92/7311/Screenshot-7.jpg
[11:06] <asdf_> i want to fix dpkg-reconfigure though
[11:06] <SmokingFire> netdur: to annoy you
[11:07] <netdur> lol
[11:07] <asdf_> linux is confusing
[11:07] <SmokingFire> ubuntu means humanity in some langs but in greek it means to piss off.
[11:07] <WW_> Any programmers here familiar with how wget works?
[11:07] <netdur> nothing logic then...
[11:07] <asdf_> theres like a million config files
[11:07] <toyowheelin> lol netdurI was wondering the same thing for a long time
[11:07] <asdf_> and they all use a different format
[11:07] <Despair> asdf_: you could try `mv /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 XF86Config-4.old` and see if dpkg --reconfigure works then
[11:08] <asdf_> and they all have 20 gui interfaces to configure them
[11:08] <Despair> (if not, move it back)
[11:08] <SmokingFire> asdf_: you should use gconf then
[11:08] <asdf_> i tried that as well
[11:08] <asdf_> you can configure X with gconf?
[11:08] <SmokingFire> not that I know but many other things
[11:08] <jmweirick> i need some help setting up DHCP
[11:09] <asdf_> does anyone know how to reset values stored in the debconf database to their default values
[11:09] <jmweirick> i have a cable internet connection but it is hooked to my computer using an ethernet to USB adapter by SMC
[11:10] <jmweirick> most distros detect it automagically but some have trouble
[11:10] <netdur> maybe /media for removeable media and /mnt for partitions!!!
[11:10] <SmokingFire> jmweirick: did it find the adpater?
[11:10] <jmweirick> i don't think so, it always comes up as eth0 in the distros that detect it
[11:11] <asdf_> i think im gonna go back to windows xp
[11:11] <asdf_> it seems to be more stable and easier to use than linux
[11:11] <jrydberg_> I'm having trouble loopback-mounting an ISO-file.  mount says "Not a directory".  Anyone seen this before?
[11:11] <asdf_> and less buggy in general
[11:11] <SmokingFire> jmweirick: click on Computer --> System Conf --> Networking
[11:11] <llpamies> How can I run scripts in /bin/sh shell ??
[11:11] <llpamies> How can I instakll SH shell ?
[11:12] <SmokingFire> jrydberg_: I think ubuntu doesn't install the loop device by default
[11:12] <mirak_> i have a quick question......how can i get documents of of the phlak live cd??????
[11:12] <phin> what do you mean?
[11:12] <phin> llpamies: explain
[11:12] <jmweirick> SmokingFire: right now i'm in windows 98
[11:12] <SmokingFire> jrydberg_: google for installing loop device 
[11:12] <jrydberg_> SmokingFire: I've loaded the module.
[11:13] <SmokingFire> jrydberg_: I did it once and its pretty easy
[11:13] <llpamies> I'mk trying to run a script with   #!/bin/sh
[11:13] <llpamies>   in the top
[11:13] <SmokingFire> sh <thescript>
[11:13] <llpamies> and I obtain this error :   bash: ./setup.sh: /bin/sh: bad interpreter: S'ha denegat el perms
[11:13] <llpamies> SmokingFire: thanks
[11:14] <solsTiCe> i was trying to compile a soft but  can't even start because during the configure i got that configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
[11:15] <doko> solsTiCe: do you have the package 'g++' installed?
[11:15] <joem> install the build-essential solsTiCe
[11:15] <solsTiCe> ok
[11:15] <jsc> anyone know why a vncserver wont connect using port forwarding via ssh on ubuntu?
[11:16] <rublind> How do you add a directory to path?
[11:16] <jmweirick> just discovered that SMC makes a driver for linux
[11:17] <chowells> rublind: export PATH=/foo:$PATH ?
[11:17] <rublind> I don't know... I'll try it.
[11:17] <jmweirick> I might be back if it doesn't work.
[11:17] <solsTiCe> joem: what is that package ? build-essential
[11:17] <rublind> Okay, do I have to do that every time?
[11:18] <jsc> get a "channel 2: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused" when trying the vncviewer
[11:18] <joem> solsTiCe, build essentials :)
[11:18] <joem> read the description for it
[11:21] <guptan> can somebody help me with Live CD of ubuntu
[11:21] <netdur> it's funny, after upgrade from pr to rc... ubuntu doesn't shut down pc, it's stick on "power down"
[11:22] <mirak_> netdur, will it reboot for you???
[11:22] <netdur> no problem about reboot
[11:22] <SmokingFire> bugs and I agree, I had crashes with ff
[11:22] <SmokingFire> now ff is stable again
[11:23] <mirak_> netdur, hmm..wonder if i have theat problem, havent tried to shutdown....my comp is always on
[11:23] <guptan> I never had a problem with ff in any version from .90
[11:23] <toyowheelin> 65%
[11:23] <guptan> pr was stunning
[11:23] <SmokingFire> but crashy
[11:23] <toyowheelin> you know I dont really know why I am downloading this 
[11:23] <toyowheelin> lol
[11:24] <SmokingFire> I will be more content if they add session managment and undock a tab into a new window
[11:24] <guptan> SmokingFire, can you help me with Live CD edition of ubuntu
[11:24] <SmokingFire> guptan: will try, but noob
[11:25] <guptan> SmokingFire, after I setup my eth0 manually, I can't start any programs.
[11:25] <SmokingFire> weird
[11:25] <SmokingFire> what happens if you try to do?
[11:25] <guptan> so I used to launch programs first then, set up network.
[11:26] <guptan> SmokingFire, no response from the system.
[11:26] <guptan> I really want to recommend ubuntu to one of my friend, but I'm afraid about its Live CD.
[11:26] <SmokingFire> system load must be high by the eth0
[11:26] <SmokingFire> can you launch programs from the console?
[11:27] <guptan> Now I'm using Live CD, but these programs I started even before configuring eth0
[11:27] <guptan> no not even console
[11:27] <guptan> whatever u have before u can work with it :)
[11:27] <SmokingFire> ok, next time could add the sysmonitor applet?
[11:27] <guptan> I haven't changed default hostname too
[11:28] <SmokingFire> this way you can see the system load and network load
[11:28] <SmokingFire> maybe someone is ddos'ing you and takes all network/cpu time
[11:28] <SmokingFire> I get that when I open a hole in my nat firewall, traffic goes way up.
[11:29] <SmokingFire> unsolicited traffic btw
[11:29] <guptan> SmokingFire, I tried to add sysmonitor now, it ended up in some panel error
[11:30] <SmokingFire> ok and also add the network traffic applet btw, thats how I found out.
[11:30] <Bliksem> how can i restore gnome defaults?
[11:30] <Bliksem> I mean menu and panel defaults
[11:31] <SmokingFire> Bliksem: think you must to it manually
[11:31] <Bliksem> I removed the default on along the top, i didnt like it, so im now repopulating a custom one, in the gnome menu there is no "desktop" menu that used to be there
[11:32] <Bliksem> its the menu that allows changing themes, remote desktop etc
[11:32] <toyowheelin> jedix, 71%
[11:33] <Bliksem> anyone knwo the menu i mean?
[11:33] <SmokingFire> guptan: I think I found a workarround
[11:33] <Bliksem> and how to get it back?
[11:33] <guptan> SmokingFire, share with me
[11:33] <SmokingFire> guptan: join me in #flood
[11:33] <guptan> SmokingFire, I'm there
[11:34] <SmokingFire> ok one sec
[11:34] <solsTiCe> yo i made my first deb package ! but the exe seg fault gasp 
[11:34] <SmokingFire> Bliksem: add applet to panel "menu bar"
[11:35] <joem> Bliksem, thats because it has been split out of the default menu
[11:35] <joem> so you won't get that one unless you install the menu bar with computer etc..
[11:37] <SmokingFire> guptan: so it seems a host/domain name issue
[11:37] <guptan> hmm
[11:38] <joem> by install I mean add to panel
[11:38] <SmokingFire> guptan: here is another usenet thread http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=3bcaab1b%240%2412227%244d4efb8e%40news.be.uu.net&rnum=10&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Deth0%2520launch%2520applications%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg
[11:38] <Bliksem> thanks SmokingFire
[11:39] <SmokingFire> Bliksem: Main menu is for applications and menu bar is for computer
[11:40] <chowells> is there any special way to compile a new kernel under ubuntu? I want 2.6.9-rc4 for the ACPI patches, just wondering how to make a  package or something
[11:45] <Dekkard> interesting
[11:46] <Se7h> how can u build a directory into a deb package ?
[11:47] <djempak> Se7h, ?
[11:47] <djempak> chowells, it's probably the same way you build a kernel package in Debian... but I wouldn't be the one to ask
[11:47] <jedix> toyowheelin, how's it going?
[11:48] <toyowheelin> 81%
[11:49] <Se7h> djempak uh?
[11:49] <chowells> djempak: yeah I guess so. I haven't used Linux for over a year FreeBSD user but apparently ACPI supports my laptop perfectly with the latest patches), but I always remember having initrd problems with compiling a kernel from kernel.org under Debian
[11:49] <Se7h> what about dh ?
[11:50] <mirak_> just buy a pc laptop now................get ps3 in a bit
[11:50] <chowells>  don't get an ibook, no linux drivers for the shitty wifi :)
[11:50] <djempak> chowells, ah
[11:50] <chowells> djempak: only one way to find out I guess :)
[11:50] <mirak_> i really like the old black powerbooks
[11:50] <djempak> chowells, it was make-kpkg, right?
[11:51] <toyowheelin> chowells, get a pcmcia card
[11:51] <Se7h> dh_builddeb: cannot read debian/control: No such file or directory
[11:51] <djempak> (I've been on FreeBSD for a while also ;))
[11:51] <Se7h> this is what i mean
[11:51] <Mithrandir> baHam: get an x40. :)
[11:51] <chowells> toyowheelin: Ibook's don't have PCMCIA slots
[11:51] <toyowheelin> HAHAHAHAHA
[11:51] <joem> airport extreem slots aren't pcmcia
[11:51] <toyowheelin> thats lame
[11:51] <chowells> I have an Asus S5643N which is superior to an X40 IMO
[11:51] <mirak_> freeBSD= better or worse than linux for a newb????
[11:51] <Se7h> worst
[11:51] <Se7h> OF
[11:51] <chowells> Riddell: hehe
[11:52] <chowells> Riddell: so how do I get rid of GNOME and install KDE? ;)
[11:52] <Se7h> chowells synamptic
[11:52] <djempak> mirak_, it depends, it's easy to install, and there's a ton of documentation
[11:52] <Se7h> chowells synaptic
[11:52] <toyowheelin> lol chowells now your talking
[11:52] <mirak_> chowells, DONT DO IT!!!!!!
[11:52] <djempak> some people just don't read the documentation ;)
[11:52] <solsTiCe> syslog was filled with error from postfix because /etc/aliases.db doesn't exist. So why do I have to create manually /etc/aliases.db ?
[11:52] <Se7h> LOL
[11:52] <Se7h> ;P
[11:52] <Riddell> chowells: "deb http://geeksoc.org/~jr/ubuntu/ unstable main"
[11:53] <chowells> toyowheelin: well, iBooks are meant for stupid computer users really, PowerBooks have PCMCIA
[11:53] <chowells> Riddell: heh
[11:53] <baHam> ubuntu UNSTABLE exists ??
[11:53] <Riddell> chowells: that gets you 3.3 libs and base, you'll have to live with 3.2 everything else for now
[11:53] <chowells> ok
[11:53] <mirak_> djempak, thnx. ubuntu seems realy driendly to me, but maybe when the lappy gets here...ill give bsd a shot
[11:53] <baHam> Riddell, is there xorg and stuff on unstable ?
[11:53] <chowells> I will compile CVS HEAD KDE ASAP anyway
[11:53] <mirak_> friendly*
[11:53] <lamont> solsTiCe: because the RC doesn't have base-config_2.44ubuntu27
[11:53] <lamont> see bug #1123
[11:53] <lamont> (fixed)
[11:53] <ThreeDayMonk> chowells: powerbook 12" doesn't have pcmcia either.  It's not there because they are small
[11:54] <solsTiCe> i was looknig for a possible bug . 
[11:54] <toyowheelin> chowells, so you are installing ubuntu on an ibook?
[11:54] <chowells> ThreeDayMonk: hmm ok. Strange when 12" PC laptops have PCMCIA
[11:54] <ThreeDayMonk> well, it could be fitted into a 14", but it just reuses the 12" parts (check a disassembled one - it's mostly space)
[11:54] <Riddell> baHam: that archive only has my KDE .debs in it
[11:54] <Riddell> baHam: there is no ubuntu unstable
[11:54] <chowells> toyowheelin: no. I have an iBook but I'm selling it, I have a PC laptop now
[11:54] <toyowheelin> oh
[11:54] <baHam> so which one would be the best ;_; 
[11:54] <joem>  pcmcia slots aren't there because airport extreem cards aren't pcmcia like airport cards were
[11:54] <baHam> ibook or powerbook ?
[11:54] <baHam> ;_;
[11:54] <ThreeDayMonk> chowells: not really - it has an optical drive, and an internal slot for airport that takes a certain amount of space
[11:54] <mirak_> chowels, what kinda ibook???
[11:55] <solsTiCe> lamont: funny i cliked on your bug # and arrived at mozilla;org I use chatzilla 
[11:55] <lamont> you'll want bugzilla.ubuntu.com...
[11:55] <chowells> ThreeDayMonk: that's true. the X40 and my Asus 12" laptop don't have optical drives... but do have PCMCIA
[11:55] <ThreeDayMonk> joem: is airport really pcmcia?  It's the same connector, I know, but...
[11:55] <solsTiCe> lamont: yes yes 
[11:55] <chowells> mirak_: 800MHz G4, 256MB RAM, bluetooth, 40GB hard disk
[11:56] <chowells> Airport Extreme is a propreitary mini-PCI style interface
[11:56] <joem> well, airport slots could use pcmcia cards, airport extreem can't
[11:57] <baHam> Hey
[11:57] <rublind> Someone please help me get my sound to work!
[11:57] <baHam> so what.. ibook ?
[11:57] <baHam> rublind, which soundcard
[11:57] <mirak_> rublind, still no sound????
[11:57] <rublind> Creative Labs Audigy
[11:57] <rublind> Still.
[11:57] <ThreeDayMonk> I have a harder sound problem
[11:57] <rublind> Let's go with my easier problem first. ;-)
[11:58] <ThreeDayMonk> I have working sound, but want to get my headset working too - it's USB
[11:58] <baHam> ThreeDayMonk, like?
[11:58] <rublind> baHam, you think you could help?
[11:58] <rublind> Or is it a lost cause?
[11:58] <baHam> rublind, creative is ultrasupported
[11:58] <baHam> rublind, rtfm :|
[11:58] <rublind> Meaning?
[11:58] <rublind> rtfm?
[11:58] <ThreeDayMonk> actually, it's a Griffin iMic, and it's a standard USB profile so shouldn't need any specific drivers (beyond generic usb audio)
[11:59] <joem> rublind, http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
[11:59] <joem> read it twice if needed
[11:59] <rublind> Okay.
[11:59] <rublind> Meany.