[12:00] <WW_> ...but this is all theoretical!
[12:02] <inklingx> gotd0t: did you edit your /etc/fstab file?
[12:03] <gotd0t> yea i have... but i doesnt do anything
[12:04] <gotd0t> after doing that and then trying to access them it tells me i cant
[12:04] <dreamcatcher> hi ho, anybody experiencing problems with sleep with ubuntu on apple ibook?
[12:04] <inklingx> can you give me the ntfs line in /etc/fstab N
[12:05] <gotd0t> ive tried so many different ways, all from different websites and people
[12:06] <Cube-ness> well, i can hit it from a browser, ui cannot figure out how to set ip up in the printer management deal
[12:06] <Cube-ness> like the address of the printer
[12:07] <Cube-ness> it needs a borswer.. hehe
[12:07] <Cube-ness> printer browser
[12:09] <fragment> Hey, any hpijs gurus?
[12:11] <fragment> I have my local deskjet printing black only, but when I share it out the other clients try to print in color
[12:12] <Cube-ness> what the heck am i supposed to put as the uri on client machine that want to print via cups?
[12:13] <fragment> I can go back to the CUPS engine, but I like the hpijs output better.
[12:13] <fragment> Cube-ness: You have to do a couple of edits to /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
[12:13] <fragment> ...first :)
[12:13] <Cube-ness> fragment, i can get in via web browser
[12:13] <fragment> Locally, or remote?
[12:13] <Cube-ness> remote
[12:14] <fragment> Oh, OK, then you have a couple of options.  Are your clients CUPS clients?
[12:14] <Cube-ness> yes
[12:14] <Cube-ness> ubuntu machine as well
[12:14] <Cube-ness> hehe
[12:14] <fragment> Ah, then there's a way that's a piece of cake.  If you turn on browse polling on both the client and server, it'll all just happen.
[12:15] <Cube-ness> lemme try
[12:16] <Cube-ness> whats supposed to just happen?
[12:17] <fragment> Uncomment 'BrowseAddress @LOCAL', 'BrowsePort 631', add 'Allow From @LOCAL' to the <Location />
[12:17] <fragment> ...one more, let me look...
[12:18] <firemouth> anyone willing to help with an Ubuntu/Debian boot problem? GRUB not working.
[12:18] <fragment> Oh, yeah, and uncomment 'Port 631' and comment out 'Listen 127.0.0.1:631'
[12:18] <fragment> (if you haven't already, which it sounds like you have)
[12:18] <Bliksem> how can i adjust the icon size in gnome?
[12:18] <mirak_> firemouth, maybe re-instal grub??
[12:18] <fragment> Then '/etc/init.d/cupsys restart'
[12:19] <firemouth> I get "GRUB loading Stage 1.5.", then "GRUB loading, please wait..." system never boots.
[12:19] <firemouth> this is on a clean install of Ubuntu or Debian network install.
[12:19] <mirak_> bliksem, i havent found a way to auto resize, but you can manually strech the size of each icon, ....er shrink
[12:19] <fragment> Oh, and comment 'Browsing Off'
[12:20] <SamBozo> fragment, I can't get to a printer on an xp box .. is that what I need to do ? go in /etc/cups/cupsd.conf  and edit something?
[12:20] <fragment> Ubuntu's default CUPS config is very secure, but it makes it a bitch to use the standard CUPS browse features.
[12:20] <fragment> SamBozo: Yep
[12:20] <Mitario> hi everyone
[12:20] <mirak_> hi hi
[12:20] <Cube-ness> fragment, hehe.. and the printer just appears on the clients.. heh
[12:20] <Mitario> are there any gtk2.5 packages for ubuntu available? :)
[12:21] <fragment> Cube-ness: Works?
[12:21] <Cube-ness> yep
[12:21] <Cube-ness> thanks
[12:21] <fragment> sweet
[12:21] <mirak_> any wysiwyg html editors in the repository??
[12:22] <jbroome> Mitario: apt-cache search says "yes"
[12:22] <jbroome> mirak_: quanta is
[12:22] <mirak_> jbroom, is it any good?
[12:22] <Mitario> jbroome, it does?
[12:23] <jimi> mirak : nvu? (dont know if it is in repo)
[12:23] <fragment> SamBozo: I might try to put up a page on the wiki.
[12:23] <mirak_> mitario, did you enable universe???
[12:23] <jimi> try sudo apt-get install nvu
[12:23] <mirak_> jimi, nvu is not in repository
[12:23] <jimi> ak
[12:23] <jbroome> mini-flood, please hold:  
[12:23] <jimi> sorry
[12:23] <mirak_> jimi, its ok
[12:23] <jbroome>  apt-cache search gtk2.5
[12:23] <jbroome> libwxgtk2.5 - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ runtime)
[12:23] <jbroome> libwxgtk2.5-contrib - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (runtime contrib libs)
[12:23] <Mitario> well, i have a libgtk2.0-dev here of course, but thats 2.4.10, which is logical, 'cause it's a stable gtk release
[12:23] <jbroome> libwxgtk2.5-contrib-dev - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (development contrib libs)
[12:23] <jbroome> libwxgtk2.5-dbg - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ development)
[12:23] <jbroome> libwxgtk2.5-dev - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (GTK+ development)
[12:23] <jbroome> libwxgtk2.5-python - wxWidgets Cross-platform C++ GUI toolkit (wxPython binding)
[12:23] <Mitario> i don't want libwxgtk
[12:24] <Mitario> i want libtk  :)
[12:24] <Mitario> libgtk*
[12:24] <fragment> SamBozo: For you, the big thing will be to add 'Allow From @LOCAL' to the bottom of the <Location /> section of /etc/cups/cupsd.conf
[12:24] <mirak_> what is this cup stuff??
[12:24] <fragment> SamBozo: Then '/etc/init.d/cupsys restart'
[12:24] <fragment> SamBozo: Then you can use http://yourhostname:631/printers/yourprintername from your XP box.
[12:25] <fragment> SamBozo: You'll still need drivers for your printer, or go to cups.org and download the base CUPS driver for Windows.
[12:25] <ushooz> mirak_, print drivers / server. Best way to get printing working in Linux / OSX
[12:26] <SamBozo> Allow From then the ip the windows box is with the printer on it?
[12:26] <fragment> mirak_: good CUPS information at http://www.cups.org
[12:26] <mirak_> ushooz, thnx
[12:26] <fragment> SamBozo: Say that again?  Your Windows box has the printer attached?
[12:26] <SamBozo> the printer in on the windows box I'm trying to print to it from this ubuntu box
[12:27] <fragment> Ah, OK, then I told you just the opposite.
[12:27] <SamBozo> oops
[12:27] <SamBozo> so start me over
[12:27] <SamBozo> wait let me go back and unedit everything
[12:27] <fragment> SamBozo: You need to go to your Control panel for Windows and add/remove windows components and install print services for UNIX.
[12:28] <fragment> SamBozo: Then you can tell CUPS that you're printing to an LPR printer at the Windows box's IP.
[12:28] <fragment> SamBozo: Then you should be set.
[12:28] <SamBozo> uhhh I had this working from a mandrake box b4 .. so the windows box understands .. it's this ubuntu box that doesn't
[12:28] <fragment> Queue name will be the share name of the Windows printer.
[12:29] <SamBozo> even a slack ware box will do it
[12:29] <fragment> SamBozo: You may have had it using an SMB share, which I think Mandrake does easily.  Not sure about Ubuntu.
[12:30] <SamBozo> I think I have samba running .. so it says in the networking on here 
[12:30] <fragment> SamBozo: Computer -> System Configuration -> Printing -> Add Printer.  You'll see the option for a Windows printer right there.
[12:30] <fragment> SamBozo: You should be set.
[12:30] <SamBozo> already did that
[12:30] <SamBozo> it don't work
[12:30] <fragment> SamBozo: Check the event log on your Windows box.
[12:31] <SamBozo> where in the event log ? which section?
[12:32] <fragment> Right-click on My Computer, go down to Manage, upper section, maybe the System log.
[12:33] <sean_>  i find mplayer package?
[12:33] <sean_> that worked well
[12:34] <sean_> What repository can i find the mplayer package?
[12:34] <SamBozo> no such animal .. I'm in the event viewer and have apps security system ans antivirus .. no entrys on any of them
[12:35] <DXT> Im currently running fglrxconfig and I'm in the question of wether should I use the external AGP GART (agpgart.o) module. Should I? (Radeon 9800 Pro)
[12:36] <mirak_> know any good 3d linux mmorpg??
[12:37] <thephotoman> Hello?
[12:37] <mirak_> hi?
[12:37] <thephotoman> okay, so there is someone paying attention to their computer here.
[12:37] <mirak_> yes, this room is active
[12:37] <moyote> lo
[12:37] <thephotoman> Just got done setting up a fresh dual-boot.
[12:37] <Despair> mirak_: planeshift.it, maybe?
[12:37] <mirak_> despair, plainshift no goo, just run around and talk
[12:37] <mirak_> good
[12:37] <Despair> mirak_: Neverwinter Nights has some fairly large persistent world servers.
[12:38] <Despair> mirak_: it's not done yet. next version is supposed to have combat.
[12:38] <moyote> Was wondering if someone could point me in the right docs direction so I can get my zip drive setup. Thanks for anytning.
[12:38] <mirak_> despair, not sure i can run that, alas, radeon 7000/ve
[12:38] <thephotoman> And after that nightmare (caused by Windows), I'm of the opinion that graphical installers are not necessary.
[12:40] <Despair> mirak_: might be slow, but it should run, with s3tc patches, if the card supports s3tc.
[12:40] <mirak_> despair, planeshift...i am aware
[12:40] <mirak_> is neverwinter free????.......my credit card is maxed atm
[12:40] <Despair> mirak_: no. nwn platinum has the game and both expansions in one package, though.
[12:40] <Despair> mirak_: you might check out nethack, for a cheap rpg fix.
[12:40] <mirak_> despair, ok.i will
[12:41] <brettcar> America's Army is free too, if you don't mind propaganda
[12:43] <Despair> brettcar: that's massively less likely to be playable on a Radeon 7000, though
[12:43] <mirak_> brettcar, i def cant play america's army
[12:43] <moyote> Any zip help? :-))
[12:43] <brettcar> Despair: its worth a shot
[12:43] <brettcar> BZFlag will run
[12:43] <brettcar> thats fun and open source
[12:43] <brettcar> bzflag.sf.net
[12:45] <mirak_> depsair, brettcar, i cant even play that on windows
[12:45] <baHam> does anybody use ipod with gtkpod ?
[12:45] <jbroome> mirak_: then I think you're SOL
[12:45] <mirak_> jbroom, i meant americas army, not bzflag
[12:45] <brettcar> you can for sure run bzflag
[12:45] <mirak_> jbroom, i can do ut and ET
[12:45] <mirak_> jbroom, i was just looking for a mmorpg
[12:46] <jbroome> NWN will run on linux
[01:01] <SamBozo> I need help samba is running I can see the shares on the windows boxes from my ubuntu box ..BUT when I try to print to the printer on the windows box I get "Printing: Unable to connect to SAMBA host, will retry in 60 seconds...ESP Ghostscript 7.07 (2003-07-12)"
[01:02] <SamBozo> "Unable to connect to SAMBA host, will retry in 60 seconds...ERROR: Connection failed with error NT_STATUS_BAD_NETWORK_NAME"
[01:02] <SamBozo> Device URI: smb://192.168.6.4/Brother HL-1440
[01:02] <SamBozo> is the error seen on the cups browser page
[01:03] <SamBozo> the work group name must be correct I can see the shares ?????
[01:12] <Cube-ness> hmm.. this is weird.. on my moms computer, a 1.3ghz celeron, grip rips from audio from the cdrom many times faster than my 2.8ghz p4..both have 52x cdroms
[01:12] <Cube-ness> ofcourse mine encodes faster...
[01:13] <Cube-ness> but mine is only riping at like 2x
[01:13] <Cube-ness> maybe a dma issue?
[01:13] <Cube-ness> mine has sata hd.. so maybe dma didnt get set for the cdrom?
[01:14] <Cube-ness> ah.. yep.. dma is off
[01:20] <Cube-ness> how do i turn on dma for my cd drives?
[01:21] <pills_> how can i specify certain programs to start when gnome starts?
[01:21] <joem> computer -> desktop prefs -> sessions
[01:23] <pills_> ty
[01:24] <Cube-ness> hmm...
[01:24] <Cube-ness> /dev/hdb:
[01:24] <Cube-ness>  setting using_dma to 1 (on)
[01:24] <Cube-ness>  HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted
[01:24] <Cube-ness>  using_dma    =  0 (off)
[01:25] <joem> Cube-ness, by anychance are you loading the ide-generic driver before the chipset driver?
[01:26] <Cube-ness> i dunno
[01:26] <joem> you know the name of your chipset module?
[01:26] <joem> or what sort of chipset, maybe somebody else in here knows the module name for it
[01:27] <Cube-ness> i see the ide0generic in lsmod
[01:27] <Cube-ness> i load piix for my sata
[01:28] <joem> ok, in /etc/modules..add piix before ide-generic
[01:28] <joem> I had to do the same thing, same dma problem
[01:29] <Cube-ness> well, i had to manually load the piix when i installed.. it load by default now.. not in modules.conf
[01:29] <joem> add it to /etc/modules to make sure it gets loaded before ide-generic does 
[01:29] <Cube-ness> ok
[01:42] <mirak_> how to play dvd's?????
[01:42] <joem> read the wiki
[01:42] <mirak_> kk
[01:43] <joem> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats?action=highlight&value=dvd
[01:43] <mirak_> umm...link to the wiki???
[01:43] <mirak_> nvm
[01:43] <phin> heh
[01:43] <joem> chan topics are also helpful
[01:44] <phin> reading involves to much work
[01:48] <BeanDip> phin, what the hell are you doing here
[01:48] <BeanDip> ?
[01:49] <phin> what do you mean?
[01:49] <BeanDip> you the same phin I know from #linuxwarez?
[01:49] <phin> ah
[01:49] <phin> yep
[01:49] <phin> :)
[01:49] <phin> whats up?
[01:49] <BeanDip> you fugger
[01:49] <BeanDip> get back in your box
[01:49] <BeanDip> :P
[01:49] <phin> Lol
[01:49] <BeanDip> nothing
[01:49] <phin> i finally got sc3k running
[01:50] <BeanDip> just playing with ubuntu on a laptop
[01:50] <phin> its about as slow as running it under wine
[01:50] <phin> lol
[01:50] <BeanDip> phin you ever play with scummvm
[01:50] <phin> no
[01:50] <phin> what is that?
[01:50] <BeanDip> play some real games you bitch
[01:50] <phin> haha
[01:50] <phin> games bore me usually
[01:50] <phin> i play sims
[01:51] <BeanDip> scummvm is an emulator that plays old lucal arts scripting language based games like Maniac Mansion, Loom ,Sam 'n Max, The Dig, Broken Sword
[01:51] <BeanDip> real game
[01:51] <BeanDip> s
[01:51] <BeanDip> adventure games
[01:51] <phin> nice
[01:51] <phin> i do like adventure games
[01:52] <phin> looking into it now
[01:52] <wm_eddie> ???
[01:52] <wm_eddie> When I'm browsing a menu I can't turn up the volume with me keyboard.
[01:52] <wm_eddie> I never noticed.
[01:52] <phin> is it that big of a deal?
[01:53] <wm_eddie> Well It doesn't happen often but it did just now.
[01:53] <BeanDip> do an "apt-get scummvm beneath-a-steel-sky flight-of-the-amazon-queen"
[01:53] <BeanDip> great games
[01:53] <BeanDip> and I can send you others
[01:54] <phin> sounds good
[01:54] <phin> i just bookmarked it
[01:54] <BeanDip> check out http://www.scummvm.org
[01:54] <wm_eddie> University of Washington research this March published a moderate estimate of 5.1% PCs running spyware."
[01:54] <wm_eddie> LOL yeah right!
[01:54] <wm_eddie> I'd say 99%
[01:55] <phin> ya i say alot more
[01:56] <theantix> maybe they don't count adware as spyware
[01:56] <aitrus> anyone know why when i say "update-rc.d hdparm defaults" it tells me that system start links already exist when they don't?
[02:00] <aitrus> ahhh... it's in rcS.d
[02:01] <wm_eddie> I have to learn how rc*.d works one day.
[02:01] <wm_eddie> Especially for my laptop, if I do console only, I can get 3 hours of battery life.
[02:02] <wm_eddie> Ahh, why is there no unrar in universe?
[02:02] <gotd0t> can anybody help me get my sound working?
[02:02] <gotd0t> i have an audigy
[02:02] <wm_eddie> I know it sucks, but ... sometimes you just can't avoid it.
[02:03] <bronson> wm_eddie: because it's decidedly non-free.
[02:03] <bronson> # deb http://debian.jones.dk sid misc
[02:03] <bronson> That's where I got mine.
[02:03] <BeanDip> gotd0t: easy
[02:03] <BeanDip> you need to modprobe the following modules and add them to your /etc/modules   snd-emu10k1 snd-enu10k1-gp snd-emu10k1-synth snd-seq-oss snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss
[02:04] <BeanDip> gotd0t: does that answer your question?
[02:06] <Mais> anyone have any idea why the alsa libraries would give me a configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
[02:07] <Mais> er on a dot slash configure
[02:09] <lifeless> Mais: have you installed the C++ compiler? 
[02:10] <Mais> gcc (GCC) 3.3.4 (Debian 1:3.3.4-9ubuntu5)
[02:10] <wm_eddie> Mais: and have you installed build-essentials?
[02:10] <Mais> ive installed the driver portion of Alsa already and it worked just fine
[02:10] <Mais> hmm
[02:12] <Mais> eddie: thanks, i think that will do the trick
[02:21] <Bentley> do i risk damaging my ubuntu install if I use apt-get repositories other than the ubuntu ones?
[02:23] <dickmorrell> Bentley, I have about 8 other repositories
[02:23] <dickmorrell> listed in my apt sources
[02:23] <Bentley> thx dick - just making sure
[02:24] <dickmorrell> no probs
[02:24] <BeanDip> dickmorrell: what repositories are you using?
[02:25] <dickmorrell> allsorts mainly sourced from Bruce Benson of Debian Planet
[02:25] <dickmorrell> some public some private
[02:25] <WW_> Did the format of sources.list change from the wart preview to the release candidate?
[02:25] <WW_> warty*
[02:25] <phin> no
[02:25] <lifeless> WW_: no, sources.list is the standard format
[02:25] <dickmorrell> ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ unstable main
[02:25] <Bentley> i notice the ubuntu repositories are lacking common (IMHO) things. .. like mysql-dev and openssl-dev
[02:26] <phin> the format should be the same
[02:26] <dickmorrell> and universal will cover most needs
[02:26] <dickmorrell> universe even - tired apologies
[02:27] <WW_> By "format", I mean did any repository entries change from a single line (e.g. main restricted) to two lines (one for main, one for restrictd)?
[02:27] <dickmorrell> not that I am aware
[02:29] <WW_> Same question for cupsd.conf... has this file been tweaked between preview and release candidate?
[02:29] <dickmorrell> try doing a diff
[02:29] <daedelus> does ubuntu have apt-get?
[02:29] <dickmorrell> its far less lazy
[02:30] <dickmorrell> daedelus, yep
[02:30] <daedelus> ok cool
[02:30] <WW_> dickmorrell: How can I get the RC versions?
[02:30] <daedelus> will be installing ubuntu then
[02:30] <dickmorrell> try the old iso versions
[02:31] <dickmorrell> whats your prob with cups
[02:31] <toyowheelin> is smb4k availible to ubuntu?
[02:32] <SamBozo> hi dickmorrell long time .. from the smoothie days .. gud to see u
[02:32] <dickmorrell> its not in any of the repositories toyowheelin
[02:32] <dickmorrell> you can compile from sources on samba.org
[02:32] <dickmorrell> its a no brainer
[02:32] <toyowheelin> thats too bad 
[02:32] <dickmorrell> SamBozo, hello
[02:32] <toyowheelin> yeak I will
[02:32] <toyowheelin> *yeah
[02:33] <dickmorrell> deb ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/smb4k/unsupported/Debian/stable/ ./
[02:33] <dickmorrell> toyowheelin, build from there
[02:33] <dickmorrell> just apt-get install it
[02:34] <SamBozo> speaking of cups and samba <g> samba is working on my ubuntu .. I can see shares but I get an error when I try to print to the xp boxes printer .. will get the error, just a sec
[02:34] <toyowheelin> umm ok, just d/l it and than do apt-get install smb4k from the dir that its in?
[02:34] <dickmorrell> sudo apt-get install
[02:34] <dickmorrell> everything else taken care of
[02:34] <toyowheelin> ok thanks
[02:34] <dickmorrell> or add that rep url to synaptic
[02:35] <dickmorrell> and update sources
[02:35] <SamBozo> "Unable to connect to SAMBA host, will retry in 60 seconds...ERROR: Connection failed with error NT_STATUS_BAD_NETWORK_NAME" 
[02:35] <dickmorrell> people still run Windows ?
[02:35] <SamBozo> not by choice
[02:35] <dickmorrell> jeesh
[02:35] <dickmorrell> same
[02:35] <dickmorrell> I got given an XP box 2k worth of new laptop
[02:35] <dickmorrell> 2 months ago at work
[02:35] <dickmorrell> I get in everyday and ctrl alt del to screensaver
[02:35] <dickmorrell> and then boot up two linux lappies
[02:36] <dickmorrell> I dont think I've ever used the XP thinkpad
[02:36] <dickmorrell> no tell a lie I did use it to balance a sandwich wrapper
[02:36] <SamBozo> hehehe gud usage
[02:37] <SamBozo> and the ansrwe to my ? would be?   ... drum roll ...
[02:37] <SamBozo> that's the error I cee on the cups page here on the ubunto box
[02:38] <SamBozo> -o+u
[02:38] <SamBozo> damn getting late spelling is worse than normal
[02:39] <dickmorrell> dude google is your friend
[02:39] <dickmorrell> I dont use samba
[02:39] <SamBozo> I did that ..
[02:39] <dickmorrell> nfs is my friend
[02:39] <dickmorrell> try looking up Dan Shearer on Samba team
[02:39] <dickmorrell> you'll find his email on samba page
[02:39] <dickmorrell> mail him
[02:39] <dickmorrell> he wrote the print extensions for smb
[02:39] <dickmorrell> say I sent you 
[02:39] <SamBozo> hmm but if i can see the shares what's the error talking about ..
[02:39] <dickmorrell> read above
[02:39] <SamBozo> k
[02:40] <dickmorrell> do you have your smb.conf set locally
[02:40] <dickmorrell> with the same network name
[02:40] <dickmorrell> as your host workgroup ?
[02:40] <dickmorrell> and then smbclient using said above .conf
[02:40] <SamBozo> yes or the shares wouldn't work
[02:40] <dickmorrell> thats what I thought
[02:41] <SamBozo> the deal is printing to the xp box worked when mandrake was installed so I know thet end is fine
[02:41] <SamBozo> and a slack box can print to it
[02:41] <SamBozo> soo......
[02:41] <BeanDip> anyone ever setup pdf printer under gnome before want to give a quick howto
[02:42] <dickmorrell> ???
[02:42] <dickmorrell> Beandip you new to Linux
[02:42] <BeanDip> not at all
[02:42] <BeanDip> I just never fucked with printing to pdf
[02:42] <dickmorrell> hmm
[02:42] <dickmorrell> ok
[02:42] <dickmorrell> open openoffice
[02:42] <dickmorrell> or abiword
[02:42] <toyowheelin> dickmorrell, its not installing
[02:42] <dickmorrell> or whatever you want to print
[02:43] <dickmorrell> toyowheelin, google is your friend
[02:43] <dickmorrell> OpenOffice has Pdf printing built in
[02:43] <dickmorrell> for screen / print / media
[02:43] <BeanDip> dickmorrell: I have a client who wants to have a systemwide pdf printer running under cups using the cups-pdf package
[02:43] <dickmorrell> Acrobat 6 onwards compatible
[02:43] <dickmorrell> ok 
[02:43] <BeanDip> I know how to set it up on a per-app basis
[02:43] <dickmorrell> ok..
[02:43] <BeanDip> just not systemwide with cups
[02:43] <dickmorrell> what server ?
[02:44] <BeanDip> cups
[02:44] <BeanDip> I just installed the cups-pdf package
[02:44] <dickmorrell> no 
[02:44] <dickmorrell> what os
[02:44] <dickmorrell> Ubuntu as server ?
[02:44] <BeanDip> ubuntu
[02:44] <dickmorrell> and client
[02:44] <BeanDip> yes
[02:44] <BeanDip> same
[02:45] <dickmorrell> or Win boxes printing to Ubuntu as network smb pdf
[02:45] <BeanDip> all *nix network
[02:45] <dickmorrell> http://xtronics.com/reference/print2pdf.htm
[02:45] <BeanDip> thanks
[02:46] <dickmorrell> or http://cip.physik.uni-wuerzburg.de/~vrbehr/cups-pdf/
[02:46] <BeanDip> kde has it built into their kprinter sytem, but this cat doesn't do KDE, e balked at the suggestion and wants to stick to gnome and CDE
[02:46] <dickmorrell> cde oh safe 
[02:46] <dickmorrell> read second url
[02:46] <dickmorrell> just in case..
[02:47] <dickmorrell> I get amazed when I see how many of my Solaris sysadmins migrate from CDE to Gnome
[02:50] <daedelus> what boot loader does ubuntu use by default?
[02:50] <sladen> daedelus: grub
[02:51] <daedelus> dammit
[02:51] <daedelus> i hate grub
[02:51] <gotd0t> does anybody know of any linux versions of ActiveSync for PPC's?
[02:51] <sladen> daedelus: apt-get install lilo
[02:51] <daedelus> yea i know..
[02:51] <daedelus> heh
[02:52] <sladen> gotd0t: sounds like a Microsoft product from Googling
[02:52] <sladen> gotd0t: do you mean ActiveSync, or something compatible/similar
[02:53] <sladen> gotd0t: perhaps try  synce or Multisync
[02:53] <dickmorrell> he means to tie
[02:53] <dickmorrell> in a piece of shit PDA
[02:53] <dickmorrell> like I have three of
[02:53] <dickmorrell> sat there doing squat
[02:53] <dickmorrell> hence Sharp Zaurus now :)
[02:53] <dickmorrell> three new HP and Toshiba Pocket PC2003s now sat redundant
[02:54] <dickmorrell> http://openwince.sourceforge.net
[02:54] <dickmorrell> and may the force be with you
[02:54] <dickmorrell> you'll need it
[02:54] <moyogo> hi there
[02:54] <moyogo> i'm having problems using some autogen.sh
[02:54] <sladen> dickmorrell: mail them to me;  then I can run Debian on them!  :)
[02:55] <moyogo> cc1plus cannot be found, is it in any ubuntu package?
[02:55] <sladen> moyogo: apt-get install build-essential
[02:55] <moyogo> sladen: thanks
[02:55] <dickmorrell> http://synce.sourceforge.net/synce/
[02:55] <richnrockvillemd> Is there a version of Pine for Ubuntu?
[02:55] <dickmorrell> sladen: no thanks I use them to sniff out
[02:55] <dickmorrell> wireless APs on the move
[02:56] <dickmorrell> only thing they're useful for
[02:56] <dickmorrell> especially the e740
[02:56] <sladen> richnrockvillemd: Pine has licensing issues.  It's probabl .... [oh well] 
[02:57] <dickmorrell> http://src.braincells.com/debian/woody/pine/
[02:57] <dickmorrell> just go 
[02:57] <dickmorrell> install
[02:57] <dickmorrell> enjoy
[02:58] <dickmorrell> or use Mutt :)
[02:58] <dickmorrell> you might be able to source a Sarg or unstable build
[02:58] <dickmorrell> that is newer
[03:04] <BeanDip> I've noticed that recently k3b is reporting that my dvd+r/+rw on my desktop and the cdr/rw/dvd combo drive in my laptop don't write cds and it only allows me to write cdrw or dvd+r/+rw
[03:04] <BeanDip> is this a knownbug?
[03:04] <BeanDip> anyone else have the same issue?
[03:04] <BeanDip> I can still burn from the command line
[03:05] <dickmorrell> BeanDip, not used cd burning at all under Ubuntu 
[03:05] <dickmorrell> have only installed experimental laptops and one desktop
[03:05] <dickmorrell> I use CentOS with k3b on main wkstn with no issues
[03:05] <dickmorrell> and that is latest build of k3b
[03:06] <dickmorrell> writes cdr+cdrw
[03:08] <GOwin> hi all. i'm having problems with an ubuntu installation. the grub installation fails and i now can't boot my laptop
[03:08] <BeanDip> dickmorrell: How do you like centos?
[03:12] <dickmorrell> GOwin, what lappy
[03:16] <GOwin> an ibm 1300
[03:16] <dickmorrell> GOwin, I use 
[03:17] <dickmorrell> two A20ms a 240, 600e, X20 and T20
[03:17] <FireRabbit> how can I add the debian experimental repository to ubuntu (or is this incompatible)?
[03:17] <dickmorrell> all with Ubuntu happily
[03:17] <dickmorrell> all thinkpads
[03:17] <dickmorrell> FireRabbit, which repository ?
[03:17] <jdub> FireRabbit: strongly discouraged
[03:17] <dickmorrell> find the url and add it to apt sources AT YOUR PERIL
[03:17] <jdub> FireRabbit: if you have to use something from experimental, better to build it from source packages
[03:17] <FireRabbit> dickmorrell, i was looking at http://packages.debian.org/experimental/
[03:17] <FireRabbit> jdub, yeah?
[03:17] <jdub> FireRabbit: what do you need it for?
[03:18] <dickmorrell> you're either brave or... misadvised
[03:18] <FireRabbit> firefox and a few other things
[03:18] <FireRabbit> dickmorrell, i'm not farmiliar with ubuntu or debian
[03:18] <dickmorrell> FireRabbit, latest Ubuntu has a more stable version of firefox
[03:18] <jdub> FireRabbit: probably best to stick with the current, supported packages where you can
[03:18] <dickmorrell> yep
[03:18] <dickmorrell> echoed..
[03:18] <FireRabbit> dickmorrell, well, I want the new 0.10
[03:19] <jdub> FireRabbit: we were using 0.10, but reverted; it's quite unstable
[03:19] <Oolong> why?   I didnt see anything better about it before they backed it down
[03:19] <FireRabbit> I'm using it here on a non ubuntu system and it's never crashed once
[03:19] <dickmorrell> yep the reverted version is much more stable
[03:19] <dickmorrell> less javascript grief
[03:19] <dickmorrell> Oolong, did you test it ??
[03:19] <dickmorrell> it was borked..
[03:19] <dickmorrell> javascript hell.. it was just trash
[03:20] <Oolong> I didnt have any problems with firefox before or after the reverted
[03:20] <ShadowHawk> There doesn't appear to be a rar package - how do I unrar a .rar file?  (apt-get install rar says certain packages point to it, but it's not there.  For example, ark suggests rar)
[03:20] <jdub> ShadowHawk: rar is in multiverse, i think
[03:21] <jdub> yeah
[03:21] <Oolong> but really dont see any need to go setting up .10 before they add it back to the repository
[03:21] <GOwin> actually, i've used ubuntu on it before. now, it won't install any linux distro at all. issue with mbr?
[03:21] <ShadowHawk> jdub: You mean universe?
[03:21] <jdub> ShadowHawk: no, multiverse :)
[03:21] <crimsun> ShadowHawk: it's a faq.
[03:21] <ShadowHawk> Fine.
[03:21] <crimsun> please see the faq on the wiki :)
[03:21] <jdub> ShadowHawk: universe == debian main, multiverse == contrib+non-free+otherstuff
[03:21] <jono> hi all
[03:21] <dickmorrell> GOwin, could be - try booting floppy and fdisk /mbr
[03:22] <dickmorrell> and see how you get on
[03:22] <jono> what do I need to get DVD support going
[03:22] <jono> dickmorrell, yo dick :)
[03:22] <dickmorrell> jono hellooo
[03:22] <dickmorrell> cant sleep
[03:22] <jdub> totem-xine + libdvdcss2
[03:22] <crimsun> jono: also a faq, please see its section on the wiki.
[03:22] <ShadowHawk> Rar's not free?
[03:22] <jdub> ShadowHawk: nup
[03:22] <dickmorrell> jono if you want dvd stuff msg me
[03:23] <jono> cheers
[03:23] <ShadowHawk> apt-get install ubuntu
[03:24] <sladen> jono: uncomment   main/illegal  in sources.list ;-)
[03:25] <jono> heh
[03:25] <jono> where is libdvdcss2?
[03:25] <jdub> on the vlc site, among other places
[03:25] <jono> ahhh ok
[03:26] <dickmorrell> jono see faq url
[03:26] <ShadowHawk> We should put a "Have you checked the FAQ?" bot
[03:26] <dickmorrell> last person you ever want to teach to suck
[03:26] <dickmorrell> eggs is Jono B
[03:26] <dickmorrell> he'll come round your house, shave your ass
[03:27] <dickmorrell> and then stick a guitar up it
[03:27] <ShadowHawk> what
[03:27] <ShadowHawk> k
[03:27] <jono> hehe
[03:27] <dickmorrell> in the presence of royalty its custom to bow
[03:27] <daniels> dickmorrell: massively off-topic -- please take it to #offtopic
[03:29] <FireRabbit> does totem segfault for everyone if you try to play an mp3 with gstreamer set to use ALSA or should I submit a bug report?
[03:30] <GOwin> are there no equivalent fdisk /mbr in live linux cds?
[03:30] <dickmorrell> FireRabbit, best thing is to remove Totem and put Xine on
[03:30] <SamBozo> I can't believe you have to go to universal to find mc for installation....
[03:30] <dickmorrell> Totem is cool but Xine rocks - realise its heavier
[03:30] <dickmorrell> gxine is in Universe as is Xine
[03:31] <dickmorrell> you'll need libdvdnav and libdvdcss2
[03:31] <dickmorrell> etc
[03:31] <FireRabbit> dickmorrell, well it's working fine with OSS, its not a problem right now i am just wondering
[03:31] <Despair> dickmorrell: and switch to something other than metacity, so that it doesn't lock up with xine-ui's menus 
[03:31] <jdub> just use totem-xine
[03:31] <FireRabbit> jdub, yeah I saw that package, just wondering
[03:32] <jdub> FireRabbit: generally, leave things set to use OSS emulation
[03:32] <dickmorrell> Despair, true
[03:32] <Despair> metacity is one broken wm, switch to something else and save on the weird surprises. I've seen so many bugs in it related to incorrect window hint handling...
[03:32] <FireRabbit> jdub, well on this  system i am typing on (which isnt running ubuntu or debian) I have all of oss disabled :)
[03:33] <ShadowHawk> SamBozo: I agree.  MC should practically replace Nano in the installer even.
[03:34] <jdub> FireRabbit: we use the alsa kernel drivers by default, but use oss emulation from userland, because it's far more reliable than current direct use of the alsa libraries.
[03:35] <dickmorrell> jdub is spot on
[03:35] <FireRabbit> jdub, understood
[03:35] <jono> is there a gconf tutorial?
[03:35] <jono> there must be some cool things you can do with gconf
[03:35] <jdub> jono: developer or user?
[03:35] <jono> jdub, user - funky things to configure the desktop etc
[03:35] <jdub> http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ and http://www.gnome.org/learn/ (see the admin guide)
[03:36] <pills_> is there a way to copy folders and files that start with a '.', cp isnt cutting it (it copies '..' as well)
[03:36] <jdub> pills_: cp .??* 
[03:36] <brettcar> cp \.filename
[03:37] <brettcar> of course
[03:37] <jdub> you don't need the escape
[03:37] <brettcar> cp -r .folder other-folder
[03:37] <brettcar> shuch just work fine
[03:37] <brettcar> should*
[03:37] <jdub> and it won't help you if you want to copy multiple files :)
[03:37] <pills_> yeah im trying to copy multiple files/dirs
[03:37] <pills_> jdub: cp .??*
[03:37] <pills_> ?
[03:37] <jdub> yes
[03:37] <pills_> ok ill try that
[03:38] <pills_> wut about removing files? same thing?
[03:38] <jdub> that matches dot, any one character, any one character, any number of characters
[03:38] <jdub> thus skipping ..
[03:38] <pills_> excellent
[03:39] <jono> jdub, I am not seeing an admin section - am I blind?
[03:40] <maswan> jdub: unfortunately, that won't catch .X/
[03:40] <pills_> tnx jdub..restart time
[03:41] <FireRabbit> can you do something like cp .[!.] *
[03:41] <jono> jdub, got it now :)
[03:43] <mjg59> jono: gconf is mostly self-documenting, though not well indexed
[03:43] <dickmorrell> guys I'm getting hassle from Dan Stone
[03:43] <dickmorrell> head wedged firmly up his ass
[03:43] <dickmorrell> for mentioning guitar up ass
[03:43] <dickmorrell> so..
[03:43] <mjg59> dickmorrell: Insulting developers is not a good way of making friends
[03:43] <dickmorrell> after 14 mins of getting lectured
[03:43] <dickmorrell> am off to wrok
[03:44] <dickmorrell> mjg59 no-one insulted anyone
[03:44] <dickmorrell> it was called humour
[03:44] <mjg59> dickmorrell: <dickmorrell> head wedged firmly up his ass
[03:44] <dickmorrell> is called humour
[03:44] <mjg59> It's not obviously humour of any classical description
[03:44] <dickmorrell> you should hang out in kernel.org
[03:44] <mjg59> Certainly not classical British humour
[03:44] <dickmorrell> lol on that note I need to finish an article
[03:45] <mjg59> Are you really laughing?
[03:45] <dickmorrell> yes 
[03:45] <mjg59> Hurrah
[03:45] <mjg59> Actually, no. I do apologise for that.
[03:49] <jono> mjg59, no worries
[03:50] <daniels> jono: 'evening
[03:50] <jono> daniels, heya buddy
[03:51] <mjg59> jono: The best way to find cool stuff in gconf is to check the descriptions of the various entries. Undocumented stuff is theoretically buggy.
[03:51] <mjg59> But for the most part, there's not a huge amount of gconf stuff that's both useful and not exposed in the GUI
[03:51] <jono> yeah, thats what I am interested in
[03:51] <jono> any interesting stuff spring to mind?
[03:52] <mjg59> Heh
[03:52] <mjg59> The only thing I've changed is middle click to open new URL in epiphany
[03:52] <jono> :)
[03:52] <mjg59> I think the default is to use that for scrolling
[03:53] <jono> right
[03:55] <mjg59> Oh, strictly speaking I've used it to get GTK to use the Beagle backend rather than the gnome-vfs backend, but that's not likely to work for most people :)
[03:56] <jono> hehe
[03:56] <jdub> there's a 'gnome hacks' site
[03:56] <jono> anything else cool with gconf?
[03:56] <jdub> which is more a list of random crack
[03:56] <jdub> jono: gconf just stores settings. it's not designed to be cool.
[03:57] <jdub> the 2.8 version includes search
[03:57] <jono> jdub, heh
[03:57] <jdub> version of gconf-editor
[03:57] <mjg59> jono: Seriously, the primary purpose of gconf-editor is to let people set default settings for users
[03:58] <mjg59> It's not like the Windows registry - we don't hide everything you need to actually use the OS in there :)
[03:58] <wm_eddie> Anybody here know how to make a program written in pygtk catch XF86Audio events?
[03:59] <jdub> ok
[03:59] <jdub> guessing time!
[03:59] <mjg59> jdub: I love guessing time!
[03:59] <jdub> everybody... guess how many subscribers are on ubuntu-announce!
[03:59] <vorlon> wm_eddie: the XF86Audio keypress events?
[03:59] <wm_eddie> Multimedia keys
[03:59] <jono> this is why gconf is good, often used options are in the desktop, lesser used stuff in gconf
[04:00] <wm_eddie> like "XF86XK_play"
[04:00] <Zindar> jdub: 2438 ?
[04:00] <aitrus> 42
[04:00] <jdub> jono: that's said quite a bit, but it's not really true
[04:00] <vorlon> wm_eddie: assuming those key events are bound to the keys correctly, it should be just like catching any other key.
[04:00] <jdub> Zindar: lower
[04:00] <mjg59> jdub: 16,000,000
[04:00] <jono> jdub, how so?
[04:00] <jdub> aitrus: higher (spank)
[04:00] <maswan> Zindar: not in sweden, I guess?
[04:00] <wm_eddie> vorlon: I can't find any documentation on it on google.
[04:00] <jdub> jono: stuff that is in gconf that is not in the ui is the exception to the rule. it's not a design choice that they should be there.
[04:00] <Zindar> maswan, no.. sydney
[04:01] <jdub> jono: more often than not, what's in the ui is in gconf.
[04:01] <wm_eddie> vorlon: And I looked at what Muine does to make it happen...
[04:01] <maswan> Zindar: ah, good.. ehmm.. afternoon? :)
[04:01] <vorlon> wm_eddie: but if you mean that you want to bind to the key event globally, I personally have no idea how to do that from pygtk.
[04:01] <Zindar> maswan, about lunch
[04:01] <jdub> Zindar: ah, erik :)
[04:01] <jono> jdub, yeah, but there is still a filtering process in which options are mapped to typical user needs - this does not happen in KDE for example
[04:01] <maswan> Zindar: ah, close enough. :)
[04:01] <Zindar> jdub, yeah :)
[04:01] <jdub> jono: that generally doesn't involve gconf though
[04:02] <maswan> jdub: old umu.se:ian :)
[04:02] <mjg59> jono: Sure, there's a small number of things that are configurable that aren't exposed to the UI. In most cases, in an ideal world they wouldn't be configurable :)
[04:02] <jdub> aha!
[04:02] <wm_eddie> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/muine/libmuine/mm-keys.c?rev=1.2&view=markup
[04:02] <jdub> cool :)
[04:02] <wm_eddie> that's how muine does it.
[04:02] <wm_eddie> and then it has mmkey.cs in the src directory to connect it to the GUI...
[04:03] <Zindar> jdub: so.. how many
[04:03] <Zindar> ?
[04:03] <jono> I thought gconf was a means to configure settings and not put them in the main UI, maybeI got this wrong :P
[04:03] <mjg59> Incidentally, did I mention how cool beagle is?
[04:03] <jdub> Zindar: lower than your guess :)
[04:03] <Zindar> maswan, what are you doing up?
[04:03] <Zindar> jdub, you said so... 243?
[04:03] <jdub> jono: lots of people get that wrong
[04:03] <Zindar> :)
[04:03] <jdub> jono: gconf is the storage and notification mechanism for settings
[04:03] <jdub> higher!
[04:03] <vorlon> jdub: including lots of software authors, bleh.
[04:04] <maswan> Zindar: broking sleeping pattern together with an early flight to lcsc
[04:04] <mjg59> jdub: Less than 16,000,000?
[04:04] <jdub> mjg59: yes. spank.
[04:04] <Se7h> hey to all
[04:04] <Zindar> lcsc?
[04:04] <jono> jdub, ahhh, I see
[04:05] <maswan> Zindar: linux clusters for super computing or something like that, conference in linkping
[04:05] <jdub> jono: see CoG and gTweakUI for some settings that are not exposed by the gnome ui
[04:05] <Zindar> maswan, ahh.. you're going to that one.. I was there a few years ago... like.. three
[04:05] <Dekkard> anyewhere you can find a tutorial for making ubuntu .debs?
[04:05] <jdub> Dekkard: debian.org -> see the new maintainer guide
[04:05] <jono> jdub, cool :)
[04:06] <jono> jdub, oh, good work on ubuntu recently by the way, you guys are doing a great job :)
[04:06] <Dekkard> thanks jdub
[04:06] <jdub> thanks
[04:06] <Dekkard> yes good job 
[04:06] <Zindar> yeah... ubuntu really really rocks...  :)
[04:06] <daniels> jono: thanks dude
[04:07] <daniels> mjg59: 16 million?
[04:07] <maswan> jdub: hmm.. 15000000?
[04:07] <mjg59> daniels: If I think big all the time, I am disappointed all the time. As a result, I am used to disappointment and rarely feel unhappy.
[04:07] <jono> its a really great distro
[04:08] <daniels> mjg59: your LiveJournal disagrees with you
[04:08] <mjg59> daniels: Anger does not imply unhappiness
[04:09] <maswan> jdub: so.. higher or lower?
[04:09] <daniels> mjg59: fair enough
[04:09] <jdub> lower, silly :)
[04:10] <maswan> jdub: 14500000?
[04:10] <wm_eddie> Man this is incredibly complicated.
[04:10] <daniels> is this like 'guess how many jellybeans in the jar'?  and do I win a car if I get it right?
[04:10] <Zindar> maswan, wasn't it less that 2438 ? :)
[04:10] <mjg59> Would an Ubuntu car include a free scantily clad woman?
[04:11] <vorlon> daniels: no, you win artwork of... damn, mjg59 was faster.
[04:11] <maswan> Zindar: oh. missed that bit then.
[04:11] <daniels> oh man
[04:11] <jdub> PWC Re-Added With Binary Driver Reverse-Engineered
[04:11] <jdub> ^ oooh!
[04:12] <maswan> well, 1300?
[04:12] <mjg59> jdub: Dude, you are so a month ago
[04:12] <vorlon> jdub: 1024.
[04:12] <mjg59> And tell us the number, goddamnit
[04:12] <jdub> KT is pretty slow these days :|
[04:12] <jdub> maswan, vorlon: higher!
[04:12] <maswan> oh, right, I have a real reason to be here these days
[04:12] <maswan> jdub: 1924?
[04:12] <daniels> 400,000
[04:12] <vorlon> jdub: 2048!
[04:13] <maswan> I run ubuntu on the laptop. I forgot, being comfortable with the usual fvwm install from universe. :)
[04:13] <jdub> both lower
[04:13] <vorlon> 1536.
[04:13] <maswan> jdub: 1600?
[04:13] <jdub> ooh, i goofed up
[04:13] <jdub> maswan's earlier was lower
[04:13] <jdub> anyway
[04:13] <jdub> it's 1297
[04:13] <Zindar> ohh
[04:14] <maswan> ah, I was pretty close then. :)
[04:14] <jdub> i think we can do better than that for our announce list
[04:14] <Zindar> that was going to be my next guess :)
[04:14] <vorlon> right, everybody gets to spank jdub for that one.
[04:14] <jdub> :)
[04:14] <jdub> users is only a little bit lower
[04:14] <mjg59> vorlon: I give up my right to spank jdub in order to provide you with more spanking
[04:15] <jdub> these spankings are non-transferrable
[04:15] <mjg59> jdub: I wish to transfer my spanking
[04:15] <mjg59> Are you saying that I have been misled over the provision of service?
[04:15] <jdub> mmmmm, service

[04:16] <mjg59> I desperately need to pre-order GTA: San Andreas
[04:16] <mjg59> jdub: You're getting married soon. You're not allowed to fantasise about service.
[04:17] <daniels> jdub: ubuntu-users subscribers?
[04:17] <jdub> 954
[04:17] <mjg59> Zindar: I find your ideas intruiging and wish to subscribe to your newsletter
[04:17] <daniels> jdub: what's the 1297 figure?
[04:17] <jdub> -announce
[04:17] <jdub> they're very close
[04:17] <daniels> oh, u-a
[04:17] <daniels> yeah
[04:17] <daniels> phat
[04:19] <harfooz> hi all. I'm new to ubuntu coming from fc2, and need to install latex2html on my desktop. But I read that one should not mix debian and ubuntu packages, so I'm worried that I would screw up my system. What is the proper way to install a package that I can't find on my ubuntu synaptic (even with the unverse repo's checked)?
[04:20] <Zindar> mjg59? que? :)
[04:20] <maswan> Zindar: I suspect he's just looking for HOT ARTWORK PIX!1!!
[04:21] <Zindar> maswan, hehe :)
[04:21] <vorlon> harfooz: have you tried hevea?  latex2html is only available from Debian's non-free archive.
[04:22] <harfooz> vorlon: no I haven't, but will google for it to learn more about it -- does it accomplish the same task as latex2html?
[04:22] <vorlon> harfooz: all of the Debian packages that previously used latex2html have been ported to use hevea now, with moderate amount of effort.
[04:23] <harfooz> vorlon: did something bad happen with latex2html? it's been around a while, thought.
[04:23] <Ninjas-Rezatm> anyone listen to GamingFM?
[04:23] <mjg59> (because we care)
[04:23] <vorlon> harfooz: <shrug> there were license provisions that didn't meet the DFSG, I don't remember the exact details.
[04:23] <harfooz> ah.
[04:25] <harfooz> so are there any people who use ubuntu to get x config'd and then somehow "transform" their ubuntu system into a debian system? 
[04:26] <harfooz> there are some folks who do that with libranet: take a libranet installation and basically make it into an all-sid system.
[04:26] <jdub> sounds like crack to me
[04:26] <epotash> hi
[04:27] <jdub> epotash: btw, i think i have a solution for you
[04:27] <epotash> i have debian woody running on a laptop with no cd rom, how can i do a net install of ubuntu
[04:27] <epotash> what is that
[04:27] <jdub> epotash: you can upgrade your minimal woody to ubuntu fairly easily
[04:27] <jdub> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[04:27] <jdub> ^ grab the sources.list bits from there
[04:27] <jdub> do an apt-get update
[04:28] <jdub> the apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[04:28] <epotash> will it be the same as installing ubuntu fresh?
[04:28] <maswan> epotash: there are ubuntu netboot images around
[04:28] <jdub> epotash: and read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fUpgradeNotes
[04:28] <jdub> epotash: with the above notes, you can get it there
[04:28] <maswan> epotash: that's how I installed the machine I'm currently typing on. :)
[04:28] <Zindar> maswan, are you running ubuntu yet or are you still a wannabe? :)
[04:29] <Zindar> and that answered that question :)
[04:29] <maswan> Zindar: I did on this laptop, I'm unpure though since I use fvwm and not this fancy "gnome" stuff. ;)
[04:29] <epotash> maswan, where are the netboot images
[04:30] <maswan> epotash: one warning first, have you setup netboot for the debian-installer or similar?
[04:30] <Zindar> maswan, I haven't been using fvwm since '99
[04:30] <epotash> i did it for debian, yes
[04:30] <maswan> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/warty/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[04:30] <maswan> well then, there they are
[04:30] <epotash> whats the warning?
[04:31] <maswan> well, if you have no clue about doing netinstalls, I don't have time for handholding now. I have to go shower and catch a flight
[04:32] <maswan> the debian-installer docs should have a section on pxeboot.cfg stuff that should be pretty identical to ubuntu
[04:32] <epotash> well, thank you
[04:32] <jdub> epotash: upgrading your current install might be simpler :)
[04:32] <epotash> yeah, i am probably going to try that first
[04:33] <epotash> in fact, im not going to do any of this now, i need to install java and set up an app to present in school tommorow
[04:44] <Zindar> nah... lunch
[04:45] <censoredr> hello?
[04:45] <moyogo> hello
[04:46] <cianid3> hello
[04:46] <censoredr> anyone know what you do to recreate your home directory after accidently deleting it.  I just want to get it back to the default setting with out reinstalling the whole distro.
[04:46] <cianid3> mkdir /home/yourname
[04:47] <cianid3> after that
[04:47] <cianid3> chown yourname:users /home/yourname
[04:47] <cianid3> do that as root
[04:47] <cianid3> wait you use ubuntu
[04:47] <cianid3> did you set a root password?
[04:48] <censoredr> Yeah.  I recreated the director but I get errors because files are missing.
[04:48] <brettcar> couldn't you just boot with init=/bin/sh
[04:48] <cianid3> you need to change the owner of the directory
[04:48] <cianid3> so that user can write to it
[04:49] <censoredr> I did that but I'm missing the default files
[04:49] <cianid3> you don't need "defualt files"
[04:49] <cianid3> it will recreate them
[04:49] <speel> when is the release going to be a final?
[04:49] <Dethread> 20th or something
[04:49] <cianid3> sometime next week
[04:49] <censoredr> So it normal not to have any desktop icons or start menu like thing?
[04:50] <Dethread> yes, that's normal
[04:50] <cianid3> censor: it will recreate the files
[04:50] <cianid3> if you will listen
[04:50] <speel> ah ok thanks ;)
[04:50] <cianid3> and type the command i told you
[04:50] <cianid3> all will be fine
[04:53] <speel> any one knows if they will change anything?
[04:53] <Dethread> nothing major
[04:53] <toyowheelin> hello all
[04:53] <Dethread> hello toyowheelin
[04:53] <toyowheelin> I just made a discovery
[04:54] <Dethread> toyowheelin, that's great
[04:54] <toyowheelin> indeed
[04:55] <toyowheelin> my processor speed turns up and down depending on workload
[04:55] <Dethread> it's called speed-stepping
[04:56] <toyowheelin> oh well I was worried for a while because my cpuinfo said 999MHz
[04:56] <thully> You can monitor it by adding a clock speed indicator to the GNOME panel
[04:56] <toyowheelin> and my processor is a 2.4GHz
[04:57] <toyowheelin> and today I was compiling something and did a cat /proc/cpuinfo and it saud 2399
[04:57] <toyowheelin> *said
[04:57] <thully> Well - the companies round up their speeds
[04:57] <toyowheelin> I was happy it wasnt at 1GHz
[04:57] <toyowheelin> lol
[04:58] <daniels> i've had my laptop run at a terahertz before
[04:58] <daniels> according to cpufreq
[04:58] <mjg59> daniels: This is, uh, not strictly true
[04:58] <mjg59> Heh :)
[04:58] <toyowheelin> lol RIIIIIGGGGHHHT
[04:58] <daniels> mjg59: hey man, did you *feel* how hot that thing got?
[04:58] <toyowheelin> bust out the liquid nitrogen
[04:59] <thully> My laptop gets kind of hot using APM - should I be worried
[04:59] <Dethread> use ACPI 
[04:59] <daniels> use acpi, yah
[04:59] <thully> I can't
[04:59] <thully> Because
[04:59] <thully> My system uses 10% of the battery per hour in sleep in ACPI
[04:59] <thully> In APM, it uses like 1% per hour
[05:01] <mjg59> thully: Thinkpad of some description?
[05:01] <thully> T42
[05:01] <toyowheelin> in cpuinfo what dose it mean under power management: ts fid vid ttp
[05:01] <mjg59> Mm. The T series seem to do that. Nobody is sure why, yet.
[05:01] <thully> Is using APM OK?
[05:02] <mjg59> If APM works, it's no problem
[05:02] <mjg59> 2.6 tends ot be worse for APM than 2.4 did
[05:02] <mjg59> Most modern laptops don't support APM, though
[05:02] <sean_> can anyone tell me how to install java?
[05:02] <thully> I have to use 2.6 because of the centrino wi-fi
[05:03] <mjg59> thully: I wouldn't worry too much about the heat as long as it's not actively burning you :)
[05:04] <thully> Is there any other solution?  I want the increased battery life of ACPI+SpeedStep+laptop_mode
[05:06] <sean_> Can anyone tell me how to install java?
[05:10] <calc> mjg59: hmm ibm needs some more linux people working on their laptops ;)
[05:10] <daniels> calc: lots of people work on the x40, it seems
[05:10] <thully> The funny thing is: I've never seen this problem mentioned online
[05:11] <mjg59> thully: It's been discussed on linux-kernel
[05:11] <mjg59> I don't think anyone has found a solution yet
[05:11] <mjg59> calc: Heh. There's some people from ibm.com on acpi-devel now
[05:11] <sean_> Can anyone tell me how to install java?
[05:12] <sean_> Ive tried everything
[05:12] <sean_> except the right way obviuously
[05:13] <mjg59> sean_: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/Java is probably helpful
[05:15] <sean_> THANK YOU !!!!!
[05:16] <calc> hmm ibm t42p would be nice too
[05:16] <thully> Does is cause many problems w/Ubuntu to recompile the kernel?
[05:17] <thully> Also, does suspend-to-disk work on the T42 to anyone's knowledge
[05:20] <ushooz> thully, I still need to get suspend working on my lappy
[05:20] <thully> What kind of trouble are you having?  What type of laptop?  Using ACPI or APM?
[05:20] <ushooz> Using ACPI
[05:21] <ushooz> Toshiba 1415-S173
[05:21] <thully> Have you written a suspend script?
[05:21] <ushooz> started but myslqd seems to keep it from shutting down
[05:21] <ushooz> so I need to shut that down first :)
[05:22] <thully> So, what exactly is the problem?
[05:22] <ushooz> just saying I need to get it worked out
[05:24] <thully> do you mean mysqld?
[05:24] <ushooz> aye
[05:24] <thully> I'm not familiar w/mysql, so I can't really help if that is the issue
[05:24] <ushooz> no worries
[05:25] <ushooz> I can get it worked out... just being lazy about it so far
[05:25] <Zindar> ushooz,  try /etc/init.d/mysqld stop :)
[05:25] <ushooz> sudo -s
[05:25] <ushooz> grr
[05:25] <ushooz> whoops
[05:26] <ushooz> Zindar, yeppers. Need to add that to my script
[05:26] <thully> I sure wish Ubuntu had suspend-to-disk built into the kernel
[05:26] <toyowheelin> anyone know how I can moniter my cpu temp and stuff?
[05:27] <ushooz> thully, agreed. That is one reason I am being lazy
[05:27] <ushooz> need to add the patch and recompile
[05:28] <thully> I don't want to rebuild my kernel and lose the Ubuntu customizations
[05:28] <thully> I heard the patch only works with the vanilla kernel
[05:31] <thully> Ubuntu seems to work perfect (which can't be said for most distributions on my laptop) except for suspend
[05:32] <ushooz> SuSE 9.1 works great on this lappy
[05:32] <ushooz> all the way down to suspend
[05:32] <ushooz> but I like Ubuntu
[05:32] <thully> I tried SuSE 9.1
[05:32] <ushooz> I feel to much junk gets installed with SuSE
[05:32] <cianid3> depends on what you choose ushooz
[05:32] <mburns> Ubuntu is going to be my distro of choice and recommendation... After the few kinks are worked out(partitioning issues on install)
[05:32] <thully> No built-in Centrino drivers - and I had the Personal edition, so no gcc to compile them with
[05:33] <cianid3> it ony installs what you select
[05:33] <ushooz> cianid3, aye, is true
[05:33] <cianid3> no gcc
[05:33] <cianid3> i had gcc
[05:33] <cianid3> just set and install source to a mirror
[05:33] <cianid3> and delete the cd install source
[05:33] <thully> oh - but I don't have wired broadband
[05:33] <thully> I use wi-fi a lot
[05:33] <cianid3> get it when you are in a hotspot
[05:34] <cianid3> you could jsut browse the mirror for gcc and download the rpm
[05:34] <thully> I'm on Ubuntu now, so doesn't matter
[05:34] <ushooz> I like SuSE
[05:34] <cianid3> i had to leave ubuntu
[05:34] <ushooz> so I am not dogging it
[05:34] <cianid3> it wouldn't compile any software
[05:34] <eldados> hey guys
[05:34] <thully> I do too - I'm between Ubuntu and SuSE for my distro of choice
[05:34] <cianid3> and an update corrupted all of my bhoot images
[05:34] <cianid3> slackware is the best distro
[05:34] <cianid3> and i've used in the last month
[05:34] <ushooz> I like Dropline
[05:35] <cianid3> debian, suse, mandrake, slackware, ubuntu, gentoo
[05:35] <cianid3> I'm running dropline
[05:35] <ushooz> Slackware does not like one of my desktop PCs though.. Gets hung on the SATA driver
[05:35] <thully> SuSE 9.2 is supposed to have good built-in wi-fi support and suspend-to-disk included
[05:35] <ushooz> I have run about them all
[05:36] <thully> me too (except for gentoo)
[05:36] <cianid3> ushooz: you;ve used clost to all the 1000+ linux distors?
[05:36] <baHam\\off> cianid3, I used mandrake redhat debian gentoo slackware suse fedora ubuntu yellowdog and yoper 
[05:36] <cianid3> close*
[05:36] <baHam\\off> the best is ubuntu
[05:36] <baHam\\off> :>
[05:36] <cianid3> i've used redhat
[05:36] <thully> no, but I've used about 10 different ones
[05:37] <cianid3> baham: how many apllications have you compiled from soruce on ubuntu?
[05:37] <ushooz> cianid3, laugh literal, no... All the majors, yes
[05:37] <thully> I used to use Mandrake - but it is becoming Linux with the stability of Windows
[05:37] <toyowheelin> any reason why lmsensors wouldnt see my sensors on my pc?
[05:37] <ushooz> cianid3, what app were you trying to compile?
[05:38] <cianid3> wine
[05:38] <cianid3> a vanilla kernel
[05:38] <cianid3> neither would compile
[05:38] <cianid3> just died with error
[05:38] <cianid3> errors*
[05:38] <ushooz> only thing I have complied so far in Ubuntu is xsp
[05:38] <cianid3> not to mention an update didn't complete which rendered my system unusable
[05:39] <toyowheelin> I have compiled several things
[05:39] <cianid3> i dunno
[05:39] <cianid3> slackware is just better
[05:39] <cianid3> in every way
[05:39] <ushooz> sound like bad luck
[05:39] <ushooz> Slackware is very nice
[05:39] <thully> I tried slackware
[05:39] <ushooz> I have Slack on a 1.5 P4 and it works great
[05:39] <eldados> so far yoper is the best distro I tried! ubuntu64 is very nice as well :)
[05:39] <cianid3> slackware is the first distro i've been able to compile a vanilla kernel on
[05:40] <ushooz> Slack does not like my mobo with SATA though :(
[05:40] <thully> It worked OK - but my sound didn't work right and I had some other problems getting online
[05:40] <cianid3> what kernel?
[05:40] <cianid3> ushooz?
[05:40] <ushooz> the default install kernel off the CD
[05:41] <cianid3> maybe try 2.6.8.1 kernel
[05:41] <cianid3> with the new sata driver
[05:42] <ushooz> I need to download a current ISO and give that a whirl
[05:42] <ushooz> "current"
[05:42] <thully> as in Slackware-current, right?
[05:42] <ushooz> aye
[05:42] <thully> I didn't know they made ISOs of that
[05:43] <ushooz> Patrick does not
[05:43] <ushooz> but a guy in #slackware has em
[05:43] <ushooz> just a matter of asking
[05:43] <ushooz> do not recall his nick
[05:44] <thully> This laptop's getting a bit hot - maybe I should switch back to ACPI
[05:44] <dewey> ok so I am going to install java using those instructions and has anyone here used those instructions?
[05:47] <ushooz> thully, I am use to hot laptops. My bloody powerbook cooks me all the time
[05:47] <ushooz> my 1.8 Celeron gets warm but nothing like that machine
[05:48] <thully> I hope Ubuntu gets suspend-to-disk in a prebuilt kernel soon
[05:48] <thully> I may have to try SuSE 9.2 which is supposed to have suspend-to-disk and great wi-fi support
[05:49] <Zindar> thully, I woundn't expect it until hoary
[05:49] <Zindar> thully, I used syspend to disk in suse 9.1 and it worked
[05:49] <Zindar> well... after you messed with it for a while
[05:49] <mirak_> zindar, is it going to be in hoary??
[05:49] <mirak_> zindar, for sure???
[05:49] <thully> Do you think it will be in they hoary development version in the near future
[05:49] <Zindar> mirak_, no idea... but I wouldn't expect it earlier
[05:49] <ushooz> Zindar, yeah it works in SuSE for me as well. close lid and it suspends
[05:49] <mirak_> zindar, kk
[05:50] <Zindar> ushooz, ohh.. never got suspend-to-ram to work under suse
[05:50] <thully> It worked in APM, but not in ACPI in SUSE 9.1 for me
[05:50] <ushooz> I love that feature. Make for quick access
[05:50] <Zindar> so.. in my experience.. suse -> mess a little and it might work.. ubuntu -> mess a little bit more and it might work
[05:50] <ushooz> that is the thing I miss in Ubuntu compared to SuSE
[05:51] <Zindar> basically.. I don't think the linux kernel is quite there yet....
[05:51] <ushooz> I may reimage my laptop to SuSE due to that
[05:51] <thully> Right now, the 3 distros I'm considering are Ubuntu,SUSE,and Kanotix (installable live CD based on sid w/wi-fi drivers and latest kernel)
[05:51] <dewey> so I make a .deb as sudo?
[05:52] <ushooz> I look forward to checking out SuSE 9.2 myself
[05:52] <dewey> thully: have you tried mandrake?
[05:52] <thully> Yeah - the stability of Windows on Linux for me
[05:52] <thully> I used it for a few years - but it has gotten too unstable for me
[05:53] <mburns> will ubuntu have an in-distro upgrade ability for upgrading to the second release?
[05:54] <thully> Using apt-get, I suppose there will be
[05:54] <thully> I've upgraded from RC1 to the current warty archive
[05:55] <thully> I'm starting to like GNOME over KDE after using it on Ubuntu - seems more lightweight to me
[05:56] <jdub> mburns: definitely, it's just like debian (because it is debian) :)
[05:57] <thully> It isn't Debian the way MEPIS or Libranet is, though.
[05:57] <eldados> thully, i'm with you on that one! gnome rocks
[05:57] <adam_> hey guys, i just installed Ubuntu, i'm trying to setup my wireless device, i got the drivers installed, i just don't know where to actually detect "wlan0" or eth1, can someone try and help?
[05:57] <ushooz> thully, I do not mind either one but I prefer Gnome
[05:57] <calc> thully: they both seem to use about the same amount of resources afaict, but gnome is much nicer gui wise
[05:58] <calc> kde 4.0 needs to use gnome hig ;)
[05:58] <adam_> anyone?
[05:58] <adam_> hey guys, i just installed Ubuntu, i'm trying to setup my wireless device, i got the drivers installed, i just don't know where to actually detect "wlan0" or eth1, can someone try and help?
[05:59] <thully> did you try doing an iwconfig to see what wi-fi devices are on your system?
[05:59] <adam_> none come up
[05:59] <adam_> says lo, eth0 and sit0 have no wireless extensions.
[05:59] <thully> Did the drivers come with Ubuntu?
[05:59] <adam_> its not assigned a hardware id (eth1, or wlan0)
[05:59] <adam_> No
[05:59] <adam_> I compiled Orinoco
[05:59] <adam_> and modprobe does see it
[06:00] <mirak_> is fluxbox in the repository????
[06:01] <thully> I think it's in universe
[06:01] <ushooz> orinoco is a default in Ubuntu
[06:01] <adam_> it didn't detect mine...
[06:02] <adam_> it is dispalying in device manager
[06:02] <mirak_> thully, how do i change to start fluxbox in ubuntu???
[06:02] <mirak_> <[06:02] <adam_> its actually a Compaq LAN W200, but it uses the Orinoco drivers (gotten the orinoco drivers to work with Slackware 9)
[06:03] <ushooz> it needs hermes, orinoco_cs, orinoco, and ds modules
[06:04] <adam_> hermes is there.
[06:04] <adam_> i just did orinoco_cs
[06:04] <adam_> orinoco was done already too
[06:04] <thully> mirak_: I think you may be able to select it in GDM from one of the menus that are at the bottom of the screen (something like Change Session)
[06:05] <lopezf> can someone help me with my wireless? i tried this guide but still no luck http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/helpcenterhowto.2004-10-07.7773155363/view?searchterm=ndiswrapper
[06:05] <adam_> wait a sec....
[06:05] <thursday> can someone help me with my wireless? i tried this guide but still no luck http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/helpcenterhowto.2004-10-07.7773155363/view?searchterm=ndiswrapper
[06:06] <ushooz> you get a little life adam_?
[06:06] <thully> It seems like 50% of Linux problems have to do with wi-fi - at least my ipw2200 works in Ubuntu no problem
[06:06] <ushooz> out of your nic
[06:06] <adam_> ok wehn i go to network settings, its now listed, i set it up
[06:06] <ushooz> thully, laptops and linux are allways fun :)
[06:07] <adam_> it won't enable tho.
[06:07] <adam_> i check activate but it doesnt'..
[06:07] <thursday> i guess the problem is when i do ndiswrapper -l it doest shot and connected, even tho the card is inserted
[06:08] <thursday> oops, it doesnt show as connected even tho the card is inserted
[06:10] <toyowheelin> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hda1,
[06:10] <toyowheelin>        or too many mounted file systems why do I get that error when I try to mount my windows partition
[06:11] <adam_> it won't enable.
[06:11] <adam_> is there a way i can reactivate it from a command line?
[06:11] <joem> toyowheelin, are you passing the filesystem option
[06:11] <mirak_> thully, huh?, that doesnt make sence to me
[06:12] <thursday> no one huh? :(
[06:13] <ushooz> adam_, sudo ifdown ethx
[06:13] <ushooz> adam_, sudo ifup ethx
[06:14] <ushooz> thursday, never used the wrappers for a wireless nic... so I am of no help
[06:14] <adam_> says ifdown: interface wlan0 not configured
[06:14] <adam_> how do i make wlan0 exist?
[06:15] <Zindar> adam_, I find that most wireless just shows up as eth1 eth0 or whatever
[06:15] <thully> mirak_: on the gdm logon screen, is there some options at the bottom?
[06:15] <Zindar> eth0 is mine
[06:15] <adam_> i have 2 network cards on this laptop
[06:15] <adam_> 1 is a hardline (which i can use to get drivers and stuff) and the wireless one
[06:15] <adam_> the hardline is fine
[06:16] <mirak_> oh...i odnt know....brb
[06:17] <thursday> sucks cuz i got them to work with gentoo once
[06:17] <thursday> wonder if i need to alias the wlan0 to a device somewhere?
[06:18] <mirak_> ooo, i dont really like it, fluxbox that it
[06:18] <toyowheelin> no joem
[06:18] <toyowheelin> I was doing it through webmin
[06:18] <mirak_> maybe it was xfce4 i was looking for?
[06:19] <adam_> Zindar: mine doesn't, how do i create a hardwre for it?
[06:20] <dmarti> I have a question re. Rhythmbox.  When I select an internet radio station  and press play it freezes up, but works fine for local  oggs and mp3s.  What am I doing wrong?
[06:20] <toyowheelin> ok never mind joem it was passing the -t 
[06:20] <toyowheelin> it works fine doing it in the command line
[06:21] <dmarti> It will change the window title to the name of the station, but then just freezes up
[06:23] <jdub> hey dmarti 
[06:23] <dmarti> Hey, jdub. 
[06:24] <mirak_> oooo, it was xfce4 that i was lookinf for
[06:24] <mirak_> i like it
[06:26] <dmarti> jdub, fun distribution you have here
[06:26] <jdub> thanks, enjoying it?
[06:26] <dmarti> yeah, can you make gnome start slower so I can look at nekkid people longer
[06:26] <SepheeBear> anyone know if Ubuntu's gnome-vfs has got dns-sd enabled? i installed howl and configured mDNSresponder but it still doesnt want to pick up any Panther ftp servers.
[06:27] <jdub> SepheeBear: nup, it doesn't
[06:27] <SepheeBear> thanks, so im not going nuts then
[06:27] <jdub> i'm not qualified to answer that ;)
[06:28] <SepheeBear> jdub: i think you're right
[06:29] <mirak_> me being a newb, do you think i will be alright running xfce4 under ubuntu....or is there not enough support/help for me????
[06:29] <mirak_> lol, actually i gues it would be OVER ubuntu
[06:30] <jdub> mirak_: the only thing to be aware of is that the packages are unsupported
[06:31] <SepheeBear> is there any work being done with dns-sd on Ubuntu?
[06:31] <mirak_> jdub, what does that mean, exactly??????....xfce4 packages are unsuported????......
[06:31] <mirak_> jdub, sorry for my newbness
[06:31] <jdub> mirak_: they don't get the same attention from the developers, no security fixes, etc.
[06:31] <jdub> SepheeBear: not really. most of that is gnome-level stuff.
[06:32] <jdub> SepheeBear: we'll be shipping howl and so on in hoary
[06:32] <mirak_> jdub, but most apps in the repository will still work for me.....right????
[06:32] <jdub> should do
[06:32] <mirak_> jdub, "should do" to me?
[06:32] <jdub> yes
[06:32] <Zindar> jdub: will howl be integrated so that if I install sshd it will be annonced with howl?
[06:32] <SepheeBear> awesome thanks jdub
[06:32] <Zindar> for example
[06:33] <jdub> Zindar: well, no plans thus far, but i'd hope we do that at some stage
[06:33] <Zindar> jdub: that would be extremly cool :)
[06:33] <mirak_> jdub, sweet, i really like xfce4, but i was afraid i was wondering to far out
[06:33] <Zindar> jdub: and also something that other distributions will start doing soon
[06:34] <dmarti> Anyone else had trouble getting internet radio stations with Rhythmbox?  It locks up for me.
[06:34] <jdub> dmarti: i've heard a couple of reports
[06:35] <jdub> dmarti: like this? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2403
[06:35] <SepheeBear> it's pretty easy to set up mdnsresponder manually to announce services, my only problem is getting linux to resolve localhosts without using a hosts file
[06:36] <jdub> ah right - that'll require some sweet nss loving
[06:36] <jdub> which has been done already
[06:36] <jdub> so just a matter of pulling new glibc or a patch
[06:37] <dmarti> jdub, yes, sounds like the same problem.  The window doesn't even redraw
[06:37] <adam_> anyone know how to get wlan0 to actualyl exist?
[06:37] <Zindar> SepheeBear, suse does do that.. 
[06:37] <jdub> dmarti: that bug is stuck in needinfo
[06:38] <dmarti> I'm looking for the requested info right now on my system (x86)
[06:38] <avatar_> my new ubuntu system was running fine -- i booted it up a few minutes ago and it hard locks while booting.. last thing it says is "* Running usb.rc..."
[06:38] <SepheeBear> Zindar: suse has the resolver configed to do that? any idea how?
[06:39] <dmarti> deafult sink output ESD.  test tone works
[06:39] <jdub> SepheeBear: a new nss module (or both)
[06:40] <thully> IS there a real speed difference between the 386 and 686 kernels?
[06:40] <Zindar> SepheeBear, hacked the resolver library I think
[06:41] <Zindar> SepheeBear, that's what their start up readme sais if I remember correctly
[06:42] <aitrus> does anyone know what package provides ode/ode.h?
[06:42] <SepheeBear> i think that's the same as OS X, they've got a couple files under '/etc/resolver' and they manpage refers to a "Super" DNS resolver
[06:43] <Zindar> Incompatible change: the resolver library treats the .local top level domain as link-local domain and sends multicast DNS requests to the multicast address 224.0.0.251 port 5353 instead of normal DNS requests. If you already use the .local domain in your nameserver configuration you will have to switch to another domain name. See http://www.multicastdns.org  for more information on multicast DNS.
[06:43] <Zindar> http://elibrary.fultus.com/technical/topic/com.fultus.suse.releases/releases/release-notes.html
[06:44] <Zindar> http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/pipermail/members/2004-September/011764.html
[06:45] <Zindar> google rocks
[06:45] <aitrus> heh.. libode-devell
[06:46] <SepheeBear> Zindar: that's awesome! what search string did you use?
[06:46] <Zindar> SepheeBear, suse resolver .local
[06:46] <SepheeBear> thanks
[06:48] <thully> Is there a significant speed increase with the 686 kernel over the 386 kernel?
[06:49] <defendguin> ok what every app is incharge of trying to save power by shutting off and on on my laptop i need to uninstall it
[06:49] <Despair> thully: depends on the task and the particular cpu. i386 code tends to be smaller and more cache-friendly, i686 may give better throughput if it doesn't trip over cache miss issues.
[06:49] <defendguin> this is stupid
[06:49] <defendguin> s/every/ever
[06:50] <defendguin> this stupid thing turns my hard drive on and off every other min
[06:50] <thully> I'm running a Pentium M
[06:50] <thully> defendguin: That is laptop-mode
[06:51] <defendguin> does laptop mode have settings i can adjust?
[06:51] <thully> Yes, but they are command-line type settings that are controlled by scripts in the /etc/acpi directory
[06:52] <defendguin> thats fine i need to fix this pos
[06:52] <defendguin> its just too aggressive at trying to save power
[06:53] <thully> I'm unfamiliar with it's command switches - it doesn't have a man page unfortunately
[06:54] <jamesh> hi yakk
[06:54] <defendguin> hmmm is got hdparm setting as a 12 
[06:54] <defendguin> that seems really low
[06:54] <Treenaks> defendguin: hdparm starts first, so other stuff can start faster I guess
[06:54] <Treenaks> ("easier" disk access)
[06:55] <defendguin> what are ou talking about?
[06:55] <Treenaks> defendguin: well, if hdparm "tunes" the disk at 12, everything _after_ that will possibly start quicker, because disk access is faster
[06:57] <defendguin> Treenaks, its setting the spindown timer to 12 which is about 60 seconds
[06:57] <defendguin> so no disk usage in 60 seconds it spins down
[06:58] <defendguin> but that doesnt seem right unless my laptop never uses disk
[06:58] <yakk> hi jamesh!
[06:58] <defendguin> because it spins down after about 20 seconds
[06:58] <yakk> jamesh: how have you been?
[06:59] <thully> Is there any way to use laptop-mode with APM?
[06:59] <thully> How about speedstep?
[06:59] <defendguin> ill just set the spindown timer to 5 min
[07:01] <defendguin> omg
[07:01] <defendguin> it sets the B value to 1 which is the most aggressive power management there is
[07:02] <calc> B value on what?
[07:02] <jdub> yo yakk!
[07:03] <defendguin> calc, hdparm
[07:03] <defendguin> crap that didnt work
[07:03] <jamesh> yakk: good.
[07:03] <jamesh> yakk: are you going to come to LCA next year? :)
[07:04] <yakk> hey JD 
[07:04] <yakk> er
[07:04] <yakk> hey jdub
[07:04] <yakk> jamesh: I don't think so - I'm going to be back in Perth for December & January, but I read that lca is in like april or something, right?
[07:05] <jamesh> yakk: yes.  Also, its in Canberra.
[07:05] <yakk> jamesh: I have some friends I'd like to visit in Canberra, but I can't see myself (a) skipping snowboarding and (b) getting the time off work :(
[07:06] <jamesh> yakk: apparently it was moved from January because Canberra is hot in the summer
[07:06] <jamesh> unlike Perth
[07:06] <yakk> hehe
[07:06] <yakk> well, it doesn't have a beach
[07:06] <jamesh> it has a lake
[07:07] <jamesh> with a fountain
[07:07] <yakk> jamesh, true - but I don't think it would quite be the same
[07:08] <jamesh> the fountain is quite impressive though.  It is spraying out a lot more water than you might think at first
[07:10] <yakk> nice! I've never made it to Canberra
[07:10] <yakk> next time perhaps...
[07:15] <mirak_> what do i do with a .run file??
[07:16] <yakk> so, an ubuntu kernel should work fine with a sid system, right?
[07:17] <mirak_> anyone??
[07:18] <aitrus> chmod 755 file.run, ./file.run  =)
[07:18] <Despair> `sh foo.run`, if you want to run it
[07:18] <mindwarp> anyone using ubuntu with reiserfs?
[07:18] <mirak_> so "sh <filename>" ????
[07:18] <Despair> mirak_: usually. .run is generally a binary installer stuffed in a shell script
[07:19] <Despair> extensions aren't 100% reliable indicators of contents, though.
[07:19] <wm_eddie> ARGH!
[07:19] <wm_eddie> #include <gtk/gtk.h> isn't working!
[07:19] <wm_eddie> how do I include gtk.h?
[07:20] <WW_> mirak_: just curious... what is the .run file for?
[07:21] <yakk> wm_eddie, you need to put the right include options on the gcc command-line
[07:21] <mirak_> ww_, UT
[07:21] <yakk> wm_eddie, pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0
[07:21] <aitrus> wm_eddie: did you install the -devel package for gtk?
[07:21] <wm_eddie> yeah.
[07:21] <WW_> mirak_: Ah
[07:22] <wm_eddie> yakk: I've been spoiled by python..
[07:22] <wm_eddie> ok now it works
[07:23] <mirak_> ww_, UT2004-LNX-Demo3334.run.gz-1 is the actual filename, what should go after sh, all of that, or just up to .run
[07:24] <WW_> mirak_: I think others here will know better than I... but the ".gz" part make me think it is compressed.  Not sure about the -1, though.
[07:24] <Despair> mirak_: you may need to uncompress it first. (gunzip filename), may need to rename it to get rid of the -1 on the end, too.
[07:24] <yakk> wm_eddie, well, its not that different from: import pygtk;pygtk.require('2.0') :)
[07:24] <mirak_> despair, just remonve the -1????
[07:24] <Despair> `mv UT2004-LNX-Demo3334.run.gz-1 UT2004-LNX-Demo3334.run.gz`
[07:25] <mirak_> mv: cannot stat `UT2004-LNX-Demo3334.run.gz-1': No such file or directory
[07:25] <mirak_>  is what i get
[07:25] <wm_eddie> yakk: do you know anything about C function pointers?
[07:25] <wm_eddie> guint       gtk_key_snooper_install         (GtkKeySnoopFunc snooper,
[07:25] <wm_eddie>                                              gpointer func_data);
[07:25] <yakk> wm_eddie, I know something
[07:26] <wm_eddie> I'm trying to do that.
[07:26] <yakk> wm_eddie, so whats the definition of GtkKeySnoopFunc
[07:26] <mirak_> ahh well...ill figure it out later
[07:26] <wm_eddie> gint        (*GtkKeySnoopFunc)              (GtkWidget *grab_widget,
[07:26] <mirak_> nite nite
[07:26] <WW_> mirak_: That's weird. Isn't that the name of the file you gave earlier?
[07:26] <wm_eddie> I'll remove the whitespace next time.
[07:28] <yakk> I just have to say, Grosse Point Blank is a fantastic film
[07:29] <mirak_> ww_ yes it is
[07:30] <mirak_> i have no idea
[07:30] <mirak_> ww_, does it matter that i am using xfce4, i wouldt think so, but im new, so i could be wrong
[07:30] <yakk> wm_eddie, you got that function definition
[07:30] <wm_eddie> yakk: so if I make a function "guint snooper(params)" I put &snooper in the GtkKeySnoopFunc place?
[07:31] <WW_> mirak_: Basic question: did you run the mv command in the directory where the file is located?
[07:31] <wm_eddie> so the thing will be gtk_key_snooper_install(&snooper, etc...); ?
[07:31] <yakk> wm_eddie, yes, basically
[07:31] <s7s> Hello! What is the best mp3-player for linux(ubuntu)?
[07:31] <wm_eddie> s7s: rhythmbox.
[07:32] <mirak_> ww_, yes i did, and i shecked that by running "ls", and the file showed
[07:32] <aitrus> mpg321  =)
[07:32] <wm_eddie> s7s: It's like all the good things of iTunes, and none of the bloat.
[07:32] <s7s> Tanks :)
[07:32] <mirak_> shecked=checked
[07:32] <yakk> wm_eddie, s7s: and all the bad things :)
[07:32] <yakk> (ui wise)
[07:32] <aitrus> yeah, except you can't just open it and play a single file without importing the damn thing
[07:32] <aitrus> oh, and importing big mp3 collections crashes it
[07:33] <yakk> personally, I'm a fan of xmms/beep - I drag and drop from nautilus - its good
[07:33] <aitrus> beep?
[07:33] <WW_> mirak_: Running xfce4 shouldn't matter at this point.  You're just using shell commands.
[07:33] <s7s> I pretty new at this. I see that when you write to me, your name turns yellow! How do you do that?
[07:33] <wm_eddie> wow this is confusing...
[07:34] <yakk> s7s: xmms does that
[07:34] <aitrus> s7s: your chat client does that automagically
[07:34] <mirak_> ww_, what i thought, was  just confirming
[07:34] <yakk> I mean xchat
[07:34] <yakk> aitrus: beep is a gtk2 port of xmms
[07:34] <aitrus> yakk: sweet!
[07:34] <mindwarp> anyone using ubuntu with reiserfs? if so what do I gotta add to my fstab (like notail etc?)
[07:34] <WW_> mirak_: Could it be permissions?  Just guessing (but I think that would say something like "access denied").
[07:35] <s7s> How does it know who i want to talk to?
[07:35] <yakk> magic
[07:35] <WW_> mindwarp: I'm using reiserfs.  Nothing special required.
[07:35] <mirak_> well i used sudo before the sh command............didnt work
[07:35] <mirak_> but i didnt try sudo before mv
[07:36] <s7s> Should i just mark the name on the User list?
[07:36] <yakk> s7s: to have a private conversation with someone you can do /query person
[07:36] <yakk> s7s: that'll open a tab with a private conversation
[07:37] <wm_eddie> YES! it works
[07:37] <aitrus> weird
[07:37] <s7s> Is there a list or guide or something with all of these commands?
[07:37] <aitrus> is there any particular reason that xmms hasn't moved to gtk2?
[07:38] <aitrus> s7s: irchelp.org
[07:38] <s7s> Ok, thanks :)
[07:38] <aitrus> s7s: but there really isn't much that you need to know...
[07:38] <aitrus> s7s: just chat like IM except it's out in the open
[07:42] <wm_eddie> damn, it doesn't do what I need...
[07:45] <WW_> mirak_: I don't know why you had a -1 at the end of your file.  Are you sure it was completely downloaded, with no problems?
[07:46] <WW_> mirak_: By the way, here's a web page that might be useful for you: http://titaniclinux.net/cms/FC?cmsPage=true&link=251
[07:49] <yakk> aitrus, the reason is that the xmms people haven't gotten around to it - but beep is basically just a port
[07:49] <yakk> aitrus, though it looks like they'll be extending it
[07:49] <fargon> Hi folks, got a question about wireless in Ubuntu.
[07:50] <aitrus> yakk: beep looks nice... though it seems to have some "issues". =)  but none that will keep me from using it (so far)
[07:50] <WW_> mirak_: Anyway, good luck, and good night.
[07:50] <thursday> ok so i fixed my wireless :) but now the battery status epplet in gnome isnt working. any advice?
[07:50] <thursday> anyone know what device it reads from? maybe perms need adjusting
[07:51] <fargon> When I installed Ubuntu on my centrino laptop at home, it detected and installed the wireless connection automatically (which is just great), but when I booted up later, in school, I could not get it to detect the school's wireless connection. Is there a way to fix it so that the Laptop would auto-detect wireless networks?
[07:51] <fargon> I'm sorry if that is verbose :)
[07:59] <Skif> fargon: there is waproamd, in universe, but I don't know how well it works
[07:59] <Skif> you an also try setting your essid to 'any', and see what you associate to
[08:00] <Skif> s/an/can/
[08:00] <adam_> hey guys, i have a new network card i need to install, i installed the drivers ,but its not assigned eth1 or wlan0, any ideas?
[08:00] <adam_> the modules are loaded
[08:01] <Skif> adam: do you see any messages in /var/log/syslog when you insert your card (I'm assuming it's a PCMCIA card, right?)
[08:02] <adam_> Skif: actually its SUB
[08:02] <adam_> *USB
[08:02] <Skif> close enough
[08:02] <adam_> its a Orinoco card, multiport
[08:02] <Skif> have you run 'usbview' to make sure it's showing up on the bus properly?
[08:02] <fargon> thank you, Skif
[08:02] <adam_> no, 1sec, its listed in Device Manager
[08:03] <Skif> good enough then... hrm
[08:03] <adam_> i get errors when i start about pciehp,shpchp, does that matter?
[08:03] <Skif> adam: try 'sudo tail -f /var/log/syslog' and then insert the card
[08:03] <Skif> adam: no, those are innocuous
[08:04] <adam_> new full speed USB device using address 5
[08:05] <Skif> that's it?
[08:05] <adam_> yea
[08:06] <Skif> looks like you might have the wrong drivers
[08:06] <adam_> well, the driver is installed
[08:06] <adam_> how do i make it a device?
[08:06] <fargon> Skif, again, I installed waproamd, like you suggested, but when I type #waproamd I get nothing. I am sorry if that sounds dumb, why can't I seem to execute the program?
[08:06] <Skif> right, but perhaps it's not the right one
[08:06] <adam_> i need to do something like makedev?
[08:07] <Skif> fargon: daemons (background programs that do stuff on their own) are usually started on install; try 'man waproamd' or check /usr/share/doc/waproamd
[08:07] <mindwarp> I haven't been all that impressed with waproamd
[08:07] <Skif> fargon: I've never used it myself, I just saw it there.
[08:07] <mindwarp> I find it to be messy and broken
[08:08] <Skif> adam: no, that's not necessary
[08:08] <adam_> ok well its orinoco
[08:08] <mindwarp> so if anyone comes across a better solution msg me because that program is like 35% working at best
[08:08] <Skif> adam: some orinoco cards use the prism2 driver
[08:08] <fargon> d'oh ! Thanks, Skif. I forget having read the daemon part...
[08:08] <adam_> i know mine is this one, i've gotten it to work before with slackware 9
[08:08] <Skif> okay, well, can't help ya, then :)
[08:09] <adam_> i know the driver is installed, its showing stats for the card...
[08:09] <adam_> how do I activate it forcefully?
[08:09] <Skif> you could always insert the card with great vim, vigor, and vitality
[08:11] <adam_> is there a way to do a hardware detect?
[08:12] <Skif> 'sudo discover ethernet' might work
[08:12] <Skif> It won't configure anything, but it'll at least let you know if it is supposed to.
[08:13] <calc> JD: hi
[08:13] <JD> hi calc
[08:15] <adam_> Skif: how do I add it to /sys/class/net/ ?
[08:16] <joolz> morning everyone
[08:17] <joolz> where is the gnome menu located? i would like to add some entries manually
[08:17] <Skif> adam: that happens when the driver associates the device with the driver
[08:17] <Skif> adam: if you don't see it there, then the driver has not claimed the device
[08:18] <adam_> can i be misssing a driver?
[08:18] <calc> joolz: entries are probably under /usr/share/applications
[08:18] <adam_> like i'm not probing something?
[08:18] <Skif> it's possible
[08:19] <calc> joolz: you can probably add entries per user under ~/.local/
[08:19] <calc> or just use the main location
[08:20] <joolz> calc: thanks! i lookes everywhere, only not in ~/.local That's the one
[08:22] <lhb> is there a ununtu forum already?
[08:25] <TheMuso> Do you mean www.ubuntuforum.org?
[08:25] <TheMuso> And I think there is also www.ubuntuforums.org
[08:26] <lhb> thanks
[08:30] <aitrus> let's start ubuntu-forums.org
[08:33] <adam_> think i might have found out why...
[08:33] <adam_> orinoco_usb support doesn't exist...
[08:33] <adam_> for the driver i downloaded...
[08:33] <Skif> ah, that would make the difference
[08:34] <adam_> ok i'm gonna try somethign else, thx for ur help
[08:34] <adam_> bye
[08:34] <Skif> oddly enough, I have an orinoco usb device that works just fine. ^_^;;
[08:51] <alka_trash> pretty slow here tonight
[08:51] <Yojimbo> very quiet, indeed :-)
[08:52] <Dethread> yep
[08:53] <alka_trash> I always use swat to share folder on a windows network, is there another way though gnome 2.8?
[08:54] <TheMuso> There may be a Samber Server frontend for GNOME I guess. I have never really looked into it, but it would probably be a neat feature for Ubuntu.
[08:54] <Yojimbo> :-) Terminal, sudo vi /etc/samba/smb.conf; sudo killall -HUP smbd ?
[08:54] <ondrej> g'morning all
[08:55] <alka_trash> hmm, looking into it
[08:55] <alka_trash> thanks
[08:56] <alka_trash> damn, it was pretty cool reading my work email today form and an exchange server with evolution :)
[08:56] <ondrej> I have strange error when setting up network interfaces: "Error for wireless request "Set Encode" (8B2A) : SET failed on device lo ; Operation not supported."
[08:57] <ondrej> does anybody else see this behaviour?
[08:57] <TheMuso> From your message there, it sounds like it is trying to change settings on the loopback interface.
[08:58] <ondrej> eth1 is wireless card, but this error shows even on 'lo' interface
[08:58] <TheMuso> Should the lo interface be able to take such a settings change?
[08:58] <geek_punk> dudes, the /sbin/modconf exist on ubuntu ???
[08:59] <TheMuso> Doesn't appear to be on my system here.
[08:59] <Yojimbo> what does modconf do? the same as modprobe?
[09:00] <TheMuso> Modconf is a Debian command to load modules. I also think it saves them to be loaded at boot time.
[09:01] <geek_punk> modconf is a ncurses interfaz where the kernel modules show haves and you can select someone and load or unload
[09:01] <geek_punk> my english is poor sorry ;S
[09:02] <jdub> geek_punk: just edit /etc/modules
[09:02] <Yojimbo> Hmmm ... unloading modules is never a good idea - 2.6 kernels allow you to prevent module unloading if you like. Perhaps by 2.8 unloading might work properly
[09:03] <geek_punk> oks is an alternavite  tnx
[09:05] <TheMuso> As jdub said, just edit /etc/modules if you want modules to be loaded at boot time. To load them straight away, simply use the modprobe command. To unload them, use the rmmod command. Unless you have set up a root password, don't forget to use sudo when working with the /etc/modules file, or the modules commands mentioned above.
[09:06] <gonzokiwi> Good evening from New Zealand
[09:07] <gonzokiwi> Could someone help me configure video on a Tecra 8000?
[09:07] <TheMuso> Do you know what chipset the video hardware is?
[09:08] <gonzokiwi> Neomagic Corporation [MagicGraph 256AV] 
[09:09] <gonzokiwi> I've also found this:-  http://the.taoofmac.com/space/Ubuntu
[09:10] <gonzokiwi> ...I'm such a sorry newbie I'm not sure *how* to edit "XF86Config-4"....
[09:10] <TheMuso> Ok. Did you get to choose what video driver you wanted to use during the Ubuntu installation?
[09:10] <Treenaks> gonzokiwi: sudo nano /etc/XF86Config-4
[09:11] <Treenaks> gonzokiwi: but only if reconfiguring doesn't work correctly with sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[09:11] <opi^work> gonzokiwi: I see you're using same laptop as my girlfriend is
[09:11] <opi^work> gonzokiwi: Neomagic sucks, you have to edit XF by hand ;(
[09:11] <gonzokiwi> How did she get on?
[09:12] <opi^work> we brought it from Allegro.pl (it's something like Polish eBay)
[09:12] <opi^work> oh
[09:12] <opi^work> get on ;)
[09:12] <opi^work> I've misread it
[09:12] <opi^work> no, she's running XP on it
[09:12] <gonzokiwi> opi^work: Sorry, Kiwi expression...
[09:12] <opi^work> I've just tested Live CD (Slax and Ubuntu)
[09:12] <gonzokiwi> opi^work: Do you remember what she did to XF, exactly?
[09:13] <opi^work> gonzokiwi: I've googled it out, IIRC
[09:13] <gonzokiwi> I'm really sorry about this pi, but you've lost me...
[09:14] <gonzokiwi> So, first off I should open a terminal session and type "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86"?
[09:16] <gonzokiwi> Anyone? I seriously apologise for my cluelessness....
[09:16] <opi^work> ok
[09:16] <opi^work> first open console
[09:16] <opi^work> do sudo dpkg-rec..
[09:17] <opi^work> see if Neomagic is on the list
[09:17] <opi^work> if not
[09:17] <opi^work> do sudo nano /etc/X11/XFree86-4
[09:17] <TheMuso> opi^work:  Don't you mean /etc/X11/XF86Config-4?
[09:18] <opi^work> I did
[09:18] <opi^work> sorry 
[09:18] <opi^work> ;)
[09:18] <gonzokiwi> OK, back in 5 mins, THANKS!
[09:21] <TheMuso> No, there is a neomagic driver.
[09:21] <tvon|x31> Glider == SmoothGNOME ?
[09:22] <giorsat> this is for ubuntu technicians. I tried several times to install ubuntu (latest is rc) in a lcd pc with sis motherboard but I stop at first boot since hotplug system hangs everything. in ubu preview the error message was epoin timeout on usb 1.1 . In ubu rc no error message. I tried with a no apic nolapic acpi=off pci?noacpi nopcmcia option ojn grub with various dispositions. Nothing to do. I reported a bug but If anyone has an idea plea
[09:22] <opi^work> gonzokiwi: http://www.xfree86.org/4.2.0/neomagic.4.html here's the Neo driver
[09:23] <dyn> giorsat: tried to disable usb in the bios?
[09:23] <dyn> giorsat: maybe update your bios to the latest version?
[09:26] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: What do I need to do?
[09:26] <TheMuso> I was checking for myself whether there was in fact a neomagic driver in the list that you get when you run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[09:26] <giorsat> I don't' have many optiuons on bios and It's not possible to disable usb. Don't know how to update. computer is only 1 year old so bios shouldn't be so old
[09:26] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Thanks, will proceed, will try to have a better question to ask momentarily...
[09:27] <maswan> daniels: thanks for the x40 packages, was just starting to think about how to get suspend working and a simple googling turned up all the nice stuff. :)
[09:28] <TheMuso> I am actually thinking of doing such a thing for the R50 series, but not sure whether anybody has done so yet, and haven't been able to find any scripts for the R50.
[09:51] <mrjive> hi *
[09:51] <Dethread> hello, mrjive
[09:52] <mrjive> hi Dethread 
[10:07] <uman> thank you for that wonderful theme with the nice humans looking up, I use that now as a wallpaper for my crux
[10:09] <opi^work> uman: well, there's big fight around those themes, so be preapare to be flamed ;-))
[10:09] <Dethread> uman, I think you're the only one who likes it
[10:09] <beezly> hehe
[10:09] <dyn> i see these backgrounds shared humanity ;)
[10:09] <uman> I noticed that, but it's really different from most stuff you get eg from www.kde-look.org and such
[10:09] <opi^work> I like'e, too
[10:09] <opi^work> 'em
[10:10] <dyn> my first impressions was 'geez that's gay' (yeah i know it's not)
[10:10] <uman> it's not just another rendered image in blue
[10:10] <dyn> and all 3 friends i asked said the same
[10:10] <Treenaks> dyn: compare the logo to the photo...
[10:10] <uman> of course I took out the ubuntu with the gimp and put crux in the corner ;)
[10:10] <dyn> i even heard that "gay distro" comment based on the screenshots (again, i DO know it's not, but that's the picture in ppl first hitting those screens)
[10:10] <opi^work> because it's gay, as in friendly/happy
[10:11] <dyn> Treenaks: yeah noticed that :)
[10:11] <dyn> Treenaks: my gf got the 4.10 pre-release and it has the logo instead of the pic in the gnome logon screen
[10:11] <Dethread> the only good picture they had was that sabrina.jpg, that was on the wiki for a little while :)
[10:11] <Treenaks> dyn: yeah, so did I
[10:11] <opi^work> dyn: tell me, what's gey (homosexual) in guy and two gals?
[10:11] <uman> I was thinking of maybe making an altered version of the 2 women wearing some nun's costume and some afghanian full body veil thing, to make some people happy
[10:12] <uman> if you see how most teenagers run around nowaday that's nothin
[10:12] <dyn> opi^work: read above. i know it's not. but somehow it reminds ppl i know to it
[10:12] <Treenaks> opi^work: well, lots of men like lesbian pron...
[10:12] <opi^work> Treenaks: Im don't watch p0rn, so I'll relay on you here ;->
[10:12] <dyn> haha
[10:13] <uman> "okay, now hit your penguin key to open up your K Menu....."
[10:13] <dyn> Dethread: which pics was that? is it still online?
[10:13] <uman> one can dream...
[10:13] <Dethread> dyn, no....someone complained about it...but I still have it :)
[10:13] <Dethread> I'll upload it somewhere real quick :)
[10:14] <dyn> heh i'm getting curious
[10:14] <Dethread> (not work safe) http://img49.exs.cx/img49/5480/sabrina.jpg
[10:14] <Keybuk> Ahh, Sabrina
[10:14] <Dethread> someone complained I guess and they had to take it off :(
[10:15] <Dethread> I like that one much better than the theme with the three people
[10:15] <Keybuk> No, I don't think it was that especially.  It was only up as an example
[10:15] <Dethread> yeah
[10:15] <Dethread> but something like this was gonna make it onto the live cd
[10:15] <Dethread> anyway, great picture :)
[10:15] <uman> the brown one with the world on it ?
[10:16] <Dethread> no,that was an example as well
[10:16] <dyn> haha Dethread
[10:16] <dyn> well, that's definetely not gay
[10:16] <dyn> at least
[10:16] <dyn> :P
[10:17] <uman> it's not work safe but very pretty
[10:17] <Dethread> ah, it's still in google's cache
[10:17] <Dethread> http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:J9mp1vjxdtYJ:wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fImages+ubuntu+splash+images&hl=en
[10:17] <uman> great photo, awesome lighting & colouring
[10:17] <Dethread> scroll down to "Default Desktop Background"
[10:17] <dyn> i like that text font on the logo
[10:18] <opi^work> Unicat_: my Boss said: they offended by females in bra and halfnaked guy? Geez.
[10:18] <opi^work> s/unicat/uman
[10:18] <uman> I wonder if they ever go to the beach
[10:18] <uman> I've got the feeling some women are just jealous of the blonde
[10:19] <Dethread> because she gets to be in a Linux theme?
[10:19] <Treenaks> Dethread: if that's the problem, send'em by my place.. I'll make themes out of their pics :)
[10:20] <uman> Dethread: you have some more photos of the same photographer ?
[10:21] <Dethread> uman, sorry no
[10:31] <joh_> hi
[10:31] <Dethread> hi joh_
[10:31] <joh_> what is the "right way to do it(TM)" when compiling a custom kernel in ubuntu?
[10:32] <joh_> I want inotify :)
[10:32] <Tiboz> use make-kpkg
[10:32] <Treenaks> joh_: wait for hoary :P or probably using kernel-package and the ubuntu sources
[10:32] <Dethread> I supposed it'd be the same as the Debian way
[10:33] <joh_> Dethread: ok, but how do I create the initrd image? I used the default ubuntu kernel config and the debian way. But ubuntu need some of the modules at compile time. I just dont know which :)
[10:34] <joh_> compile time = boot :)
[10:34] <joh_> typo...
[10:34] <Treenaks> joh_: there's an option for make-kpkg to do that afaik
[10:35] <Tiboz> yeah it's --initrd
[10:39] <joh_> Thanks guys!
[10:39] <joh_> I`ll try that, Beagle - here I come 
[10:42] <plovs_work> joh_, http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/BeagleInstall
[10:46] <joh_> plovs_work: thanks!
[10:46] <dyn> Treenaks: hoari?
[10:46] <Treenaks> dyn: The Next Version
[10:47] <dyn> ok :)
[10:48] <Dethread> whorey
[10:48] <Dethread> :)
[10:48] <dyn> hahaha
[10:51] <dyn> "debian based p0rn distro - enjoy" ;)
[10:51] <dyn> (j/k..)
[10:51] <tvon> Treenaks: that would be tight
[10:51] <tvon> er, 'nice'
[10:51] <dyn> lol
[10:52] <Tiboz> it's the lesbian project 
[10:55] <opi^work> I guess Jihad Debian Distro would be better for some people
[10:55] <Treenaks> tvon: you type "tight" for "nice"? hmm..
[10:56] <digitalSurgeon> i'mbakc :p
[10:56] <Ng> Treenaks: since Goldmember it's ok ;)
[10:57] <tvon> It would also be rad, cool, bitchen and totally tits
[10:57] <Treenaks> Ng: 8)
[10:57] <tvon> and it would 'kick my ass'
[10:57] <daniels> maswan: awesome :)
[10:59] <|trey|> lesbian = pr0n collection that is entirely apt-get'able  8)
[11:00] <xskoulax> morning
[11:01] <digitalSurgeon> lol @ trey
[11:01] <ubergoober> mornin'
[11:02] <digitalSurgeon> gmorning
[11:02] <digitalSurgeon> it's 2 pm here in pakistna
[11:02] <xskoulax> 3am here in Denver
[11:02] <Dethread> 2am on the west coast
[11:02] <Tiboz> 11 am in paris
[11:02] <xskoulax> afternoon digitalSurgeon
[11:03] <|trey|> digitalSurgeon: not being funny... http://www.lesbian.mine.nu/
[11:05] <housetier> oh yes porn-get is funny
[11:09] <alka_trash> nice lesbian distro
[11:10] <sladen> alka_trash: have you seen the   @ lesbian  t-shirts Jason Clifford had printed?
[11:11] <alka_trash> no I haven't
[11:15] <s7s> How can i listen to one of the radio-stations in 'Rythmbox 0.8.5'? It keeps freezing when i try to connect.
[11:16] <digitalSurgeon> totem and rythembox both are crap
[11:17] <NoStress> hi
[11:17] <housetier> s7s, I experience the same but haven't found a solution yet
[11:17] <digitalSurgeon> lol
[11:18] <housetier> I believe it has to do with gnomevfs, but I don't know
[11:18] <Tiboz> s7s: if rhythmbox crashes, pick up the url of the radio you want to listen and play it with xmms
[11:18] <jdub> there's a bug about this in bugzilla - search for radio
[11:19] <alka_trash> yep xmms or beep-media-player
[11:19] <NoStress> I wanted to compile a NeHe opengl tutorial, it works, it create a opengl window but nothing appear in it
[11:19] <seb128> try with "gst-launch-0.8 gnomevfssrc location=....... ! spider ! volume ! audioscale ! audioconvert ! $(gconftool-2 -g /system/gstreamer/0.8/default/audiosink)"
[11:19] <seb128> if that doesn't work that's a gstreamer problem
[11:19] <Treenaks> don't forget to escape the !s
[11:20] <NoStress> when i run the bin bundled in the tgz, it works well
[11:20] <lhb> is there a runlevel editor in ubuntu (debian)
[11:20] <seb128> Treenaks: esoace the !s ?
[11:20] <Treenaks> escape even
[11:20] <NoStress> if a compile it, nothing is draw in the opengl window
[11:20] <Treenaks> if you're typing it in a shell
[11:20] <alka_trash> the nice thing about beep-media-player is that you can use winamp skins
[11:20] <seb128> Treenaks: ??
[11:20] <Lathiat> alka_trash: you can do that in winamp too
[11:20] <seb128> Treenaks: that's a command to enter in a shell, nothing to escape
[11:21] <Lathiat> i mean
[11:21] <Lathiat> xmms
[11:21] <NoStress> if a remove the -lGL in the makefile, il compile with no warning and works well ??!!
[11:21] <Treenaks> seb128: my shell complains about the "!"s not being escaped..
[11:21] <housetier> the "!" need to be escaped
[11:21] <seb128> that's a joke, isn't it ? :)
[11:21] <Treenaks> seb128: it tells me "event not found"
[11:22] <seb128> Treenaks: what are you doing and where ?
[11:23] <TheMuso> Attempting to do a dist-upgrade on a Ubuntu install I have here. I can't seem to connect to the server. Anybody else having any problems?
[11:23] <NoStress> any idea ?
[11:24] <Treenaks> seb128: entering your gst-launch command line in bash in  an xterm
[11:24] <Treenaks> oh wait..
[11:24] <Treenaks> it only complains if there's only one !
[11:24] <seb128> ?
[11:24] <seb128> I don't understand what you are doing, but this command doesn't need to be escaped for sure
[11:25] <Treenaks> seb128: try something in bash with only one ! in it..
[11:25] <seb128> ie ?
[11:25] <Treenaks> seb128: it'll try to find the last command with the word you put after the !
[11:25] <Treenaks> seb128: try "echo !gst-launch", for example
[11:25] <Lathiat>  s
[11:26] <seb128> Treenaks: why ? The "!" are separator for the gstreamer command ...
[11:26] <TheMuso> I think you have to escape ! signs in quotes when using with echo, etc.
[11:26] <Treenaks> seb128: yes I know.. but it's ALSO command repetition in (at least) bash and zsh
[11:27] <seb128> Treenaks: dunno why you're trying to repet stuff, but if you just use the command given some lines earlier it works
[11:27] <seb128> and you don't need to espace anything
[11:27] <Treenaks> seb128: I know that...
[11:28] <seb128> so what's the problem ?
[11:28] <Treenaks> seb128: it's just that it look weird to me, because I only use ! for repetition
[11:28] <seb128> oh ok
[11:28] <Treenaks> so I thought they needed to be escaped
[11:28] <seb128> ok
[11:28] <s7s> I also wonder why 'Rythmbox' wont play my (legal)mp3-files? Its says that it needs some kinda plug-in.
[11:28] <seb128> s7s: because mp3 is not free
[11:29] <seb128> s7s: install gstreamer0.8-mad from universe
[11:29] <digitalSurgeon> seb: what about the mp3z that i encoded mysef
[11:29] <Zindar> 53 upgraded <-- wow.. this close to release?
[11:30] <seb128> digitalSurgeon: the problem is with the format
[11:30] <|trey|> digitalSurgeon: the format is patented...
[11:30] <Treenaks> better use OGG
[11:30] <digitalSurgeon> wat about og vorbis ?
[11:30] <digitalSurgeon> ogg is open/free ?
[11:30] <Treenaks> ogg is free
[11:30] <|trey|> digitalSurgeon: OGG is patent free... would be better, yes.
[11:30] <Treenaks> and more importantly, patent-free
[11:30] <gonzokiwi> Can someone help me setup Tecra 8000 graphics?
[11:31] <TheMuso> And ogg sounds better. :)
[11:31] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Hi! I'm finally back...
[11:31] <|trey|> gonzokiwi: search google for "<your_video_card> linux" and look for the module you need...
[11:32] <gonzokiwi> The Muso: Ran dpkg-reconfigure... died, but seemed to edit file
[11:32] <Treenaks> gonzokiwi: dpkg-reconfigure died???
[11:32] <TheMuso> Did you run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
[11:33] <soma22> hy all
[11:33] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Yes, looks OK as far as I can tell...
[11:33] <TheMuso> But you said it died.
[11:33] <soma22> van valaki magyar?
[11:33] <gonzokiwi> Treenaks: Yes, error relating to a battery module said "expecting binary input", threw me back to console
[11:34] <Treenaks> gonzokiwi: scary stuff
[11:34] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Died, but I set a number of parameters first, and the config file seemed to update accordingly
[11:34] <TheMuso> So is it working ok?
[11:35] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso:No, only 640x480... in Device Manager says card capabilities unknown
[11:35] <TheMuso> Ok. What resolutions have you got listed in your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file?
[11:35] <Treenaks> gonzokiwi: which driver did you select?
[11:36] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 (LCD is 800x600)
[11:36] <gonzokiwi> Treenaks: It never asked me 
[11:36] <Treenaks> gonzokiwi: if you did dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 and got asked questions, the driver would be one of them
[11:37] <gonzokiwi> Treenaks: Sorry, thought you mean during install... yes, I specified the correct driver there.
[11:38] <TheMuso> There is a neomagic driver.
[11:38] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Yes, selected the right one
[11:40] <mrjive> does anyone cas suggest a development tool for python?
[11:40] <mrjive> *can
[11:40] <dyn> i use vim
[11:41] <mrjive> :)
[11:41] <mrjive> yes but a programmer coming from win and just converted to linux asked me this
[11:41] <dyn> i see
[11:41] <arturaz> at least gnome-vfs ain't broken in 2.8 :)
[11:41] <arturaz> mrjive, there is eclipse
[11:41] <arturaz> for gtk
[11:41] <arturaz> and eric3 for QT
[11:42] <dyn> eclipse supports python? which plugin does that?
[11:42] <arturaz> dunno, i heard it
[11:42] <arturaz> anyway - i use vim :)
[11:42] <dyn> i use eclipse daily for java development
[11:42] <dyn> but never bumped into a python plugin
[11:43] <arturaz> i'm off to school
[11:43] <uman> what's new in gnome 2.8 compared to 2.6 ?
[11:43] <arturaz> uman, lot's of fixed bugs, hal integration :)
[11:43] <dyn> uman: http://gnome.org/start/2.8/notes/rnwhatsnew.html
[11:43] <uman> might just build it on crux, they've just updated the port
[11:44] <uman> thanks
[11:46] <krischan> dyn: coincidentially I read the word "eclipse" - tell me, is Eclipse easy-to-install on Ubuntu? In what repository can it be found?
[11:47] <mrjive> arturaz: tnx
[11:47] <gonzokiwi> Is a reboot required to update XF86Config-4 settings?
[11:47] <krischan> because I want to return to Java development with Eclipse too.
[11:47] <dyn> krischan: i always install all my development tools manually
[11:47] <Dethread> I use anjuta for all my development
[11:48] <Dethread> or vim :)
[11:48] <dyn> krischan: installing eclipse (after you have a working JDK is a matter of downloading and extracting the zip file
[11:48] <krischan> dyn: I see, so you compiled Eclipse yourself?
[11:48] <dyn> s/K/K)/
[11:48] <gonzokiwi> ...or anything else, so that the desktop offers new, relevent settings?
[11:48] <dyn> krischan: no
[11:48] <TheMuso> gonzokiwi: Just restart X.
[11:49] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Its painful being stupid... how?
[11:49] <Dethread> good night everyone
[11:49] <TheMuso> Get out of your GNOME session, and back to a gdm prompt. Then go to a console, and type sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[11:50] <TheMuso> gonzokiwi: BTW We were all newbies at one stage.
[11:51] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Cheers mate...
[11:53] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: IT WORKED! YAY! YOU ROCK!
[11:53] <TheMuso> gonzokiwi: Good to hear that it works for you. :)
[11:54] <gonzokiwi> TheMuso: Mate, I'll kiss a sheep for you...
[11:54] <TheMuso> DOn't go to any trouble. :)
[11:55] <ivar> q: is there a resource that defines how to configure all the nonstandard keys on a laptop keyboard (eg: volume control) ?
[11:56] <TheMuso> I think this varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Not entirely sure though.
[11:58] <uman> btw, how do you start gnome without gdm
[11:58] <uman> I just don't like a graphical login
[11:58] <dyn> (echo exec gnome-session > ~/.xinitrc) && startx
[11:58] <uman> ah, gnome-session in my initrc, thanks a lot :)
[11:58] <dyn> :)
[11:59] <dyn> it's nice to see someone actually *understanding* an answer, not just executing it ;)
[11:59] <uman> ah, must be cause I've been on linux for over 2 years now, heh
[12:00] <uman> am just letting prt-get install gnome 2.8 with deps
[12:00] <uman> that'll take a while
[12:00] <Ng> ivar: The keyboard and keyboard shortcuts desktop config stuff should be able to do that
[12:00] <Ng> I'd explain the loction better, but I'm not sitting at my ubuntu install ;)
[12:00] <uman> Ng: what are you running on ?
[12:01] <Ng> right now I'm at work, running fedora core 2
[12:01] <uman> ok
[12:01] <ivar> Ng, thanks for the pointer.. I'll take another look
[12:01] <krischan> dyn: okay, JDK is already working. Where would you extract the Eclipse-SDK-ZIP to?
[12:01] <dyn> krischan: your choice really
[12:02] <Ng> somewhere like /usr/local/eclipse maybe
[12:02] <ivar> or /opt/eclipse
[12:02] <dyn> i prefer /usr/local/java/* for my java stuff
[12:02] <uman> I wished they'd do away with /opt and /usr/local
[12:03] <Ng> uman: where would locally installed stuff go?
[12:03] <TheMuso> Can anybody remember what other Ubuntu mirrors there are? I am currently unable to connect to the Ubuntu site. Is anybody else having problems accessing it
[12:03] <uman> for me it'd be fine to be just in /usr
[12:03] <Ng> uman: that's less than ideal tbh
[12:03] <uman> why
[12:03] <ivar> kremlyn, i just installed eclipse on ubuntu and (assuming you're using 3.0.1) you have to manually download the JDT as a seperate install
[12:03] <Ng> uman: you end up with a nasty mix of things dpkg knows about and things it doesn't
[12:04] <ivar> s/kremyln/krischan
[12:04] <TheMuso> /usr/local is a must on any system. You can't put any old file in areas that the package manager watches.
[12:04] <Tiboz> TheMuso: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Archive
[12:04] <uman> on crux I just symlink /opt and /usr/local to /usr
[12:04] <uman> works fine
[12:04] <ivar> hmm. xchat autocomplete's not very helpful.
[12:04] <Ng> uman: of course it works, it's just a recipe for pain later
[12:05] <housetier> ivar, it is helpful, you just have to tweak it to your needs :)
[12:05] <uman> I still don't see why binaries have to be all over the place
[12:05] <uman> what makes binaries in /usr/local special ?
[12:05] <ivar> housetier, is there a way to enable the autocomplete to show you what name it's resolved ? 
[12:06] <Ng> uman: that they're not managed by the system packager (ie dpkg/rpm)
[12:06] <housetier> ivar, *cough* my bad really, I misread autocomplete as tabcomplete. I have to agree, autocomplete isnt reall helpful
[12:06] <uman> ah, I don't use that, I have ports system :)
[12:07] <uman> I still think that it's stupid to have several locations for the same thing
[12:07] <Zindar> the ports system is also a system packager
[12:07] <ivar> housetier, but tabcomplete's new to me, and much nicer.. thanks for the tip ;)
[12:07] <Zindar> uman: nobody is forcing you.. screw your boxes up.. that's fine
[12:07] <Zindar> :)
[12:08] <Tiboz> in xchat, you can have the old style tab completion 
[12:08] <uman> ok, I'll stop to whinge
[12:08] <TheMuso> Thanks Tiboz 
[12:08] <Ng> Zindar: he may well not screw up his boxes
[12:08] <Tiboz> put 1 to this option in xchat.conf completion_old = 0
[12:08] <Zindar> Ng: if he puts misc binaries in /usr/bin he will sooner or later :)
[12:08] <Tiboz> when xchat is not launched
[12:09] <Ng> Zindar: I agree it's likely, but it's not definite. at best we are pushing convention/tradition ;)
[12:09] <uman> hmm... seems like ftp.gnome.org is busy
[12:09] <TheMuso> Damn. All those sites are on the one server. Is anybody else able to get to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/archive at all?
[12:09] <lkp_> yep, no problem from here
[12:10] <TheMuso> Hmmm. Ok thanks.
[12:10] <Zindar> TheMuso, yeah.. that page gives a "create this page" thing
[12:10] <housetier> Tiboz, one can also use /set, /set *tab* to show all settings with tab :)
[12:10] <lkp_> With capital A though 
[12:10] <krischan> ivar: What is JDT? I thought Eclipse SDK is all one would need.
[12:10] <Tiboz> housetier: yeah also :)
[12:10] <Zindar> Ng: well.. let just see :)
[12:11] <TheMuso> I can't even get a connection at all.
[12:11] <lkp_> do we have any hotplug experts around?
[12:11] <Tiboz> lkp_: you're having pbs with acpi and a thinkpad ?
[12:11] <TheMuso> Zindar: The a in archive should be capitalized
[12:11] <lkp_> Tiboz: Nope a thinkpad but not acpi yet
[12:12] <lkp_> I have my root fs on an external disk (USB2) and it fails when I enable the hotplug system 
[12:12] <lkp_> (Had to disable it to get it to boot at all!)
[12:12] <Tiboz> i can't help you with this
[12:12] <lkp_> OK
[12:12] <zahm1> gdm wont start, using  radeon 9600XT 265mb
[12:12] <Tiboz> sorry
[12:12] <uman> I've heard that on some boots from USB you need some special timeout thingy
[12:13] <uman> at least from flash and USB hdds
[12:13] <lkp_> Did that by adding sleep to loadmodules in the initrd image.
[12:13] <uman> ok
[12:13] <uman> shame they didn't put a USB on my WRT54G
[12:13] <lkp_> But when it enables hotplug it seems to reload the USB drive and that messes with the root file system
[12:14] <mrjive> how can I see new packages in synaptic? i tried to make a filter and specify "new in archive" ma id does not work...
[12:14] <TheMuso> Damn. Seems that it is something to do with my connection/ISP. I don't want to reconnect due to a download happening. :(
[12:15] <TheMuso> Seems to happen every so-often
[12:15] <Treenaks> lkp_: you could try adding usb-storage to /etc/hotplug/blacklist, but that might ruin it completely..
[12:15] <Treenaks> lkp_: or it might work..
[12:15] <uman> anyone know a good mirror for ftp.gnome.org ?
[12:15] <Zindar> ftp.acc.umu.se :)
[12:16] <Zindar> na.. just kidding
[12:16] <Zindar> same box
[12:16] <lkp_> Treenaks, tried that + the uhci/ohci to stop if from messing with me, but /etc/init.d/hotplug start still loses my rroot
[12:16] <Zindar> uman: what's the problem with ftp.gnome.org?
[12:16] <TheMuso> Ah. Found myself a local mirror. Nice.
[12:16] <uman> and I was already editing my Pkgfile
[12:16] <uman> it times out
[12:16] <uman> when getting vte
[12:17] <Zindar> hmm.. let me talk to ppl
[12:17] <Zindar> uman: have you tried getting it over http instead of ftp?
[12:17] <uman> I'll just try it out tomorrow
[12:17] <Zindar> http://ftp.gnome.org/
[12:17] <Zindar> ?
[12:18] <uman> it's just the ports system trying to pull it
[12:18] <mir> How do I mount ntfs in rw mode?.. the option rw (in fstab) does not seem to do the job
[12:18] <uman> I might just wget it
[12:19] <Treenaks> mir: it's not possible with the default kernel, I think
[12:19] <TheMuso> mir: The native Linux NTFS driver doesn't work properly for writing, so is disabled by default for safety.
[12:19] <dyn> does ubuntu installs clean out of the box to a sata hda?
[12:19] <Ng> dyn: should do
[12:19] <Ng> dyn: I installed it to an SATA drive on a via controller
[12:19] <Ng> (the one built into my KT800 mobo)
[12:19] <dyn> Ng: sounds ok.. my n00b friend would need to install on sata
[12:19] <uman> hm, mc also doesn't want to connect to it, I'll leave it for later
[12:20] <uman> does it put SATA drives on hde /etc ?
[12:20] <Ng> dyn: I think it should be fine unless he has an unsupported controller
[12:20] <uman> I mean /dev/hde etc
[12:20] <para> c
[12:20] <Ng> yes
[12:20] <Ng> well
[12:20] <dyn> uman: it uses sda/.. for sata using kernel >2.6.7
[12:20] <Ng> some of them put the drives through the SCSI layer
[12:20] <dyn> imho
[12:20] <Ng> so /dev/sde etc
[12:20] <uman> ah ok
[12:20] <ivar> krischan, sorry was afk .. JDT == java development toolkit..  Eclipse is a barebones platform until you add stuff to it  
[12:21] <uman> I'll wait until I get a pci express board before bothering with sata
[12:21] <__daniel> hai
[12:21] <Ng> dyn: I'm sure I've come across something still using the IDE layer for SATA, but yeah, they mostly seem to use SCSI now
[12:21] <ivar> krischan,  JDT had been part of the stanard SDK until recently..  or maybe it's just the linux/GTK version that's seperate
[12:22] <Ng> my bad
[12:22] <dyn> Ng: just as i said, kernels around 2.6.5-2.6.7 used the /dev/hde,.. stuff
[12:22] <krischan> ivar: So, to be clear on this, I need Eclipse SDK + JDT in order to work properly?
[12:23] <dyn> krischan: the SDK delivers with JDT by default
[12:23] <Ng> dyn: I think it was a later kernel than that, but I only used the controller once, so it could be my faulty brain ;)
[12:23] <dyn> :)
[12:23] <Rocha> Good morning
[12:23] <ivar> dyn, i just installed eclipse sdk 3.0.1 gtk, and jdt was not included 
[12:24] <dyn> ivar: was it the SDK download? are you sure?
[12:24] <Rocha> Can I make some bug reports here? I installed Ubuntu yesterday.
[12:24] <krischan> all very confusing ... well I am additionally downloading the JDT, just in case.
[12:24] <ivar> krischan, well.. maybe I grabbed the wrong file :| , but if after installing you can't start a java 'project' you'll need the JDT
[12:25] <__daniel> Rocha, go to http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[12:25] <ivar> dyn, i grabbed eclipse-platform-SDK-3.0.1-linux-gtk.zip
[12:25] <Rocha> __daniel, ok
[12:25] <__daniel> Rocha, it's what i did some moments ago :-)
[12:26] <krischan> ivar: Okay, I'll install SDK and then I'll see further. Thanks for your hints anyway, dyn and ivar. Now excuse me, it's time for me to go AFK.
[12:26] <dyn> ivar: that's the problem.. the eclipse-SDK-3.0.1* contains the platform PLUS the JDK
[12:26] <ivar> oops.
[12:26] <dyn> ivar: the eclipse-platform-SDK-wtf contains only the platform, no JDT
[12:26] <mir> TheMuso: I thought it was fixed in 2.6.x and that ntfs writing was reliable and not experimental anymore..?
[12:26] <dyn> s/JDK/JDT/
[12:27] <Rocha> Ubuntu rocks, but there are some little things lacking.
[12:27] <TheMuso> mir: That is the first I have heard about that. Mind you, I have no use for the module myself.
[12:27] <vrln> is the ubuntu artwork meeting today?
[12:28] <Keybuk> vrln: yes, 1600 UTC
[12:28] <uman> what UTC is it now ?
[12:28] <daniels> Keybuk: 1600?
[12:28] <mir> TheMuso: I don't need it eaither... but I have some friends how have to converted 100% so they want it. :-)
[12:28] <TheMuso> I thought it was 1400 according to a post from jdub on the list earlier today.
[12:28] <Keybuk> uh, 1400 UTC
[12:28] <Keybuk> sorry
[12:28] <vrln> anyone know what utc it is now :P
[12:28] <Keybuk> 1500 BST ... I added rather than subtracted
[12:28] <Keybuk> ho-hum
[12:28] <Keybuk> descent scott% TZ=utc date
[12:29] <Keybuk> Mon Oct 18 10:28:54 utc 2004
[12:29] <TheMuso> 10:28AM
[12:29] <vrln> ok, thanks
[12:29] <uman> so in like 3.5 hours
[12:29] <ivar> q: is there a ubuntu firefox newer than 9.3 ?
[12:30] <Keybuk> ivar: we had 1.0PR1 packaged, but it just had too many bugs
[12:30] <ivar> Keybuk, so it's worse ?
[12:30] <vrln> ivar: the 0.10 version has some problems, but the 0.93 is security fixed anyway, even if it's the old version
[12:31] <ivar> ok.. I'll just be happy with .93 and wait for the powers that be :)
[12:31] <dyn> 1.0PR1 is out?
[12:31] <mir> Are there some Debian users here?... If so why would one go from debian to ubuntu.. I was very impressed at first, that everything was working default... but then as I was using it, it was just like my debian install so I thought, why run ubuntu?.. Anyone else have an opinion?.. I just want to hear others versions, this is *not* anti ubuntu or anything
[12:31] <opi^work> mir: different approach
[12:31] <cbaoth_> Less tinkering required... that's about it IMO.
[12:31] <opi^work> mir: more stable relaeases
[12:32] <opi^work> more == quicker
[12:32] <TheMuso> mir: GNOME 2.8.
[12:32] <ivar> mir, i'm a relative newbie and what sold me was the realization that ubuntu == debian with funding
[12:32] <Ng> plus it's not that long since ubuntu forked sid. give them a bit more time to make their mark :)
[12:32] <Keybuk> Ubuntu is Debian for people who want to use their machine more than they tinker with it
[12:32] <dyn> mir: expectable release cycles, fresh gnome stuff, some minor stability patches, the feeling of a 'distro', not a bunch of packages stuffed together
[12:32] <ivar> yay ! it's a ubuntu glee club :)
[12:32] <TheMuso> Laptop stuff configured out of the box, I.E speedstep. That is nice. :)
[12:32] <uman> more of a desktop distro I guess
[12:33] <ivar> also, #ubuntu is a decent resource.. where as #debian tends to be off topic or scroll too fast for those who consult xchat less frequently
[12:33] <uman> I must say, this channel is quite nice
[12:33] <uman> and I don't even use ubuntu
[12:34] <sean_> #mplayer
[12:34] <TheMuso> This is the first time I have been on #ubuntu and I thought it would be busier than this.
[12:34] <uman> I hope they'll bring out the fixed gmplayer for alsa
[12:34] <TheMuso> I dare say it probably does get busier though.
[12:34] <Ng> it will be busier when more of america is awake
[12:34] <uman> out of CVS
[12:34] <ivar> TheMuso, keep in mind it's 3:30 on the west coast..
[12:34] <ivar> of north america
[12:34] <sean_> I cant get mplayer to open a .ogm file to save my life
[12:35] <TheMuso> True. It is 8:30 PM here in eastern Australia though.
[12:35] <mir> Ok.. Thanks for the comments.. just wanted to hear other opinions.. I personally was impressed with Ubuntu, but, as I have been running debian for a couple of years I feel I can configure it desktop firendly, so I was quickly back on debian again, as I did not see any advantage for me.. I run Sarge/testing... But Ubuntu was the distro needed to make my gf convert :-)).. and some friends.. they are really really impressed.
[12:35] <uman> TheMuso: where in OZ ?
[12:35] <dyn> mir: ubuntu is definetely gf-compatible
[12:35] <dyn> mir: (after adding mplayer and w32codecs)
[12:35] <TheMuso> uman: Sydney.
[12:35] <mir> dyn :)
[12:36] <mir> dyn: exactly what I did
[12:36] <dyn> i use gentoo at work and installed ubuntu for my gf too :)
[12:36] <Zindar> dyn: yeah.. my gf also liked it... especially the guy in the login screen :)
[12:36] <dyn> she loves it
[12:36] <dyn> haha Zindar
[12:36] <uman> hehe
[12:36] <dyn> dont fall back to the theme topic ;)
[12:36] <sean_> I so changed the login screen as soon as I could
[12:36] <Zindar> dyn: hehe.. I'll try to avoid that
[12:36] <mir> dyn: I love gentoo as well... I had some problems with kernel 2.6 on it, that why I don't have it installed at the moment
[12:37] <dyn> gentoo takes shitloads of tinkering
[12:37] <sean_> grrrrr to mplayer
[12:37] <dyn> some love it (me) some aint
[12:37] <dyn> but it takes too much time sometimes
[12:37] <dyn> and actually ubuntu feels really faster than my uber-tuning gentoo here at work with about the same config
[12:37] <uman> sean_: iirc you have to tell mplayer where your codecs are when you compile
[12:37] <dyn> which i couldn't really explain in spite of my background experience :)
[12:38] <mir> well as soon as gentoo is up and running it is very fast.. So one should not do changes when one does not have time :).
[12:38] <sean_> I followed the directions to the t but I perhaps did something wrong
[12:38] <Zindar> what's really nice about ubuntu is also that ppl can support there software on it...  for example.. if I wrote a good software I wanted to distribute for many distributions I wouldn't put up a deb-sourse  for debian unstable.. it changes to much
[12:38] <uman> it's summink like --with-codecdir or such
[12:38] <uman> been a while
[12:39] <dyn> mir: being a gentoo fan usually comes with upgrading all stuff at least weekly as i see :)
[12:39] <uman> sean_: or try out xine
[12:40] <mir> dyn: Yepp.. I did upgrade quite often... I had no problems with it.. it was just doing its job in the background... just like apt-get dist-upgrade.
[12:41] <Zindar> need to find some dinner...
[12:41] <Zindar> late dinner
[12:41] <Zindar> bye
[12:41] <mir> dyn: I think I have to buy a new computer before I can run Gentoo again.. 2.6 just wont run if I compile it myself.. 
[12:41] <Keybuk> mir: I think one of the main Ubuntu goals is though you *can* install Debian and configure it as a decent desktop system, you only need install Ubuntu -- it's already configured for you
[12:42] <dyn> mir: what box you got?
[12:43] <mir> Keybuk: Yes, that is one advantage... thats why I wanted to hear debian user views... As I don't see it as a problem for a experianced debian user to configure his desktop to be as in ubuntu
[12:44] <jv_> i installed ubuntu for my family using finnish language and now some parts are swedish.. is there some way to "fix" it because i don't understand a shit :p hehe
[12:44] <Keybuk> mir: of course not, Ubuntu *is* Debian configured to be a desktop -- by Debian Developers, largely, too
[12:44] <mir> dyn: Its a Athlon K7, quite standard one with linux compatible hw all the way... But 2.6 just wont work if I compile it.. The problem can lie somewhere between the keyboard and the hair, but I have not found anything yet... :-8
[12:44] <dyn> between the keyboard and the hair?! LOL! :)
[12:44] <dyn> i haven't heard that before ;)
[12:44] <dyn> pretty smart 8)
[12:44] <mir> dyn: I meant chair :-)
[12:45] <Ng> PEBKAC ;)
[12:45] <dyn> nod :)
[12:46] <Keybuk> mir: tried booting with noapic and/or pci=noacpi ?
[12:48] <sly_alien> is the package servers down or something? :S
[12:48] <Keybuk> works from here ...
[12:48] <sly_alien> hmm
[12:49] <sly_alien> well i cant seem to access them :/
[12:49] <TheMuso> sly_alien: You seem to be having the same prob as I did. You know there are australian Ubuntu package mirrors now?
[12:49] <sly_alien> there are?
[12:49] <sly_alien> :)
[12:49] <TheMuso> http://mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/ubuntu
[12:49] <sly_alien> nice thanks
[12:49] <sly_alien> i'll try that out
[12:50] <hazmat> is there anyway to configure evolution, to use an existing spam folder?
[12:50] <mir> Keybuk: Yes, I did, I even took a .config file from a kernel (2.6 precompiled) witch was working on my machine, and compiled it, and it did not work.. just did this to se if it would work...
[12:51] <TheMuso> sly_alien: There may be others, but I know only of that one, as it is a free quota source for me.
[12:51] <TheMuso> That should be quota free.
[12:51] <Deft> does anyone know of any reported long start up time bugs?
[12:52] <sly_alien> TheMuso, yeah i've used that mirror before for other linux and it is fast for me :)
[12:53] <sly_alien> should i even bother trying to install ati drivers?
[12:53] <Deft> my latest ubuntu install has two very long pauses in the startup process, one at the first "Starting ubuntu" point, and another at starting hotplug, anyone else got this?
[12:54] <TheMuso> Depends on whether you want/need 3D acceleration. I am using the dsriver that comes with X on my laptop, as I don't need 3D.
[12:54] <polok_> how do I add a locale using the command line?
[12:54] <sly_alien> hmm i cant even get to the security mirror :/
[12:54] <Treenaks> Deft: that could be, yes
[12:54] <TheMuso> I simply used the pacific line I gave you before for security as well and that seemed to work.
[12:54] <sly_alien> ah i can use that aswell ok
[12:55] <sly_alien> TheMuso, what would the mirror for security be?
[12:55] <Ng> Deft: starting hotplug can take a while, it's checking every bit of hardware and loading drivers
[12:55] <Ng> not sure what the other one is
[12:56] <TheMuso> sly_alien: Just replace the security.ubuntu.com portion of the line with mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/ubuntu
[12:57] <sly_alien> ah ok
[12:57] <TheMuso> deb http://mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/ubuntu/ warty-security main restricted
[12:57] <TheMuso> deb-src http://mirror.pacific.net.au/linux/ubuntu/ warty-security main restricted
[12:57] <sly_alien> yeah
[12:57] <sly_alien> thanks
[12:57] <sly_alien> :)
[12:58] <Deft> Ng, however, on my debian install it was close to instant
[12:59] <Deft> Ng, strangely, on restarting the service on a running system, and looking at dmesg, all the messages are within 5 seconds of each other (too long, but better), for another 5 seconds there is no output at all...
[01:02] <sly_alien> how can i play mp3s?
[01:02] <Treenaks> sly_alien: install gstreamer0.8-mad from universe
[01:03] <joh_> sly_alien: check the "restricted format" entry in the wiki
[01:03] <sly_alien> thanks
[01:03] <joh_> it helped me a lot
[01:03] <JanneM> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats
[01:03] <sly_alien> i cant even get on ubuntu website
[01:03] <sly_alien> hopefully wiki works
[01:03] <JanneM> seems a little slow right now
[01:03] <TheMuso> No it doesn't from here.
[01:03] <sly_alien> hmm
[01:03] <sly_alien> nah i cant go on from here :(
[01:03] <sly_alien> any idea why?
[01:04] <TheMuso> Well try the gstreamer0.8-mad package from universe.
[01:04] <sly_alien> yeah i will
[01:04] <sly_alien> just wondering why i cant access the site
[01:04] <TheMuso> I am wondering the same thing, but have no real need for it at the moment.
[01:04] <Ng> Deft: weird. bugzilla it, or start debugging hotplug :)
[01:06] <Deft> Ng, done
[01:07] <Deft> now to start hunting again on not being able to boot windows! it's non stop fun reinstalling a PC these days
[01:07] <uman> you can always fdisk /mbt
[01:08] <uman> you can always fdisk /mbr
[01:08] <uman> if you're desperate
[01:08] <Deft> tried that (well, fixboot/fixmbr) no luck
[01:08] <vjsanjay> how to install ubuntu from rh9 I am hving iso image in HDD
[01:09] <Deft> fixmbr doesn't actually seem to do anything though, it will tell me I have a non-standard/corrupt mbr, then after I tell it to overwrite it, it tells me that it still is nonstandard/corrupt
[01:09] <uman> can you still mount your windows partition under linux ?
[01:10] <Deft> probably, haven't actually tried; I can cat from it definitely, so I know ntldr is in pace
[01:10] <Deft> * place
[01:10] <uman> Deft: all that the MSDOS mbr will do it to boot the boot sector from the "activated" partition
[01:10] <uman> if you can't find such a partition with fdisk, windows won't be able to boot
[01:12] <Deft> uman, the first partition is winxp on vfat, the start of the partition definitely looks like ntldr; all I do in grub is root, then makeactive, then chainloader +1 and boot
[01:12] <Deft> I think the problem is more fundamental though, as even overwriting grub with ntldr doesn't work
[01:12] <uman> Deft: uhm, I only know lilo, but that looks ok for grub
[01:13] <uman> did you try to do a "repair install" thing from C ?
[01:13] <uman> CD
[01:14] <uman> that's what I love on linux, easy to fix such shit
[01:14] <uman> windows is just such a bitch when it has to share the computer
[01:14] <uman> sorry for the language
[01:14] <Deft> well, I installed XP after ubuntu, aiming to overwrite grub, then reinstall it after; XP fails on it's first boot; ntldr gives a disk error, even though it's installed in the mbr and I used it's own tool to create it's partition
[01:14] <mrjive> after a successfull install on a dual boot machine with win2k, grub is not capable of bottin win2k... the answer is "NTLDR is missing"... probably it is a win2k ptoblem.. what do you think?
[01:14] <uman> that's weird alright
[01:14] <mrjive> s/botting/booting
[01:14] <Deft> so I haven't even got a finished install of XP
[01:15] <uman> I just dualboot with win98
[01:15] <uman> cause I don't like ntfs
[01:15] <uman> but it's been a while I've actually booted to win98
[01:15] <Deft> uman, XP Pro will do vfat if you want
[01:16] <uman> but I don't have XP and I don't intend to pay for it
[01:16] <uman> I have a legal copy of win98SE, though
[01:16] <polok_> my cdrom isn't listed as being mounted
[01:16] <polok_> but I can't get it out
[01:16] <TheMuso> Have you tried the eject command?
[01:16] <Deft> uman, I wouldn't pay for it; I get one from my uni department :)
[01:17] <Rocha> I was going to install Ubuntu in this computer but it says "No common cd-rom found" and asks me for a driver! Strange.
[01:17] <uman> you prolly pay for it with your fees
[01:17] <TheMuso> Rocha: How old is the machine? And do you know how the CD-ROM is connected?
[01:17] <polok_> TheMuso: ta
[01:18] <Deft> uman, true, but I can't get out of paying them, so I'll just have as many software licenses as I get for it
[01:18] <Rocha> How old? P4 3GHz, DVD CD-RW combo, 512MB ram (not old, pretty new)
[01:18] <uman> yeah, why not
[01:18] <uman> if it's paid already you might as well take it
[01:18] <Deft> sounds like https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1532 is the bug if you read far enough, you might want to look mrjive, not sure if it covers you thing too
[01:18] <TheMuso> Rocha: Hmmm. Have you tried any other installation of Linux on that machine?
[01:18] <Rocha> I'm using Fedora and it didn't complain.
[01:19] <uman> the point I'm making is that I don't want to shell out money to get a legal XP copy
[01:19] <uman> if linux does all I want to do
[01:19] <Rocha> TheMuso, it even recognized the sata hard disk
[01:19] <mrjive> tnx Deft,i'll take a look
[01:19] <TheMuso> What CD image are you trying to install with?
[01:19] <jimi> hi 
[01:19] <Rocha> The same I installed at home, i386
[01:20] <TheMuso> Rocha: Yeah, but when was the image downloaded?
[01:20] <TheMuso> Hi jimi 
[01:20] <jimi> are there new isos since RC1 ?
[01:20] <Rocha> Hmmm, last friday
[01:20] <TheMuso> There are the daily ISOs I think.
[01:20] <jimi> i cant find anymore the daily isos link T_T
[01:20] <uman> my neighbour is some IT support person, of course all his customers are on windows
[01:20] <TheMuso> Rocha: Ok so that is the RC1 image it seems.
[01:21] <uman> and he asked me the other day how to circumvent the "10 user" problem with XP
[01:21] <uman> hehehe
[01:21] <uman> 10 users, hhaHAHAHAHAHA
[01:21] <jimi> lol
[01:21] <Rocha> TheMuso, last iso is dated 13-Oct
[01:21] <jimi> hum 13 oct is RC1
[01:21] <TheMuso> Yep, thats RC1.
[01:21] <uman> my samba server doesn't care how many users
[01:21] <jimi> doesnt work on my computer :p
[01:21] <TheMuso> Have you looked into any of the boot options available on the CD?
[01:22] <kent> So the Ubuntu which is released now is not the final version, its just a pre-release? When is the first release due?
[01:22] <jimi> kent 20th oct
[01:22] <Rocha> TheMuso, nop
[01:23] <Rocha> TheMuso, i'll wait for the final release
[01:23] <kent> jimi, thanks.  Then all i can say is that the pre-release Im running right now is very nice :) Ive had no problem at all.
[01:23] <Rocha> kent: Ubuntu is the best linux distro ever :)
[01:24] <Rocha> TheMuso, thanks
[01:24] <jimi> =)
[01:24] <Rocha> kent, there are some things that I don't like, but in general, it's the best.
[01:24] <uman> it surely has some nice artwork
[01:25] <jimi> daniels, are you there?
[01:25] <Rocha> There are some little things that should be corrected though.
[01:25] <kent> Rocha, i like the fact that you get a fine configured gnome desktop in just a few clicks. A graphical installation would be nice, though.
[01:25] <TheMuso> Rocha: The best thing to do is to through the CD in, and boot from it. WHen you get the Ubuntu logo on screen, press the F1 key and read the instructions there. That will lead you to various options that can be entered. There is too much to be listed on here.
[01:26] <Rocha> With just a few clicks? You don't even have to click anywhere, the default installation rocks. :-)
[01:26] <jimi> rocha : install problem?
[01:26] <jimi> my install process fails too
[01:26] <Rocha> jimi, not at home, my at my lab yes.
[01:26] <TheMuso> Rocha: maybe you need to enter options such as noapic or nolapic
[01:26] <jimi> im gonna try with another cd, i think
[01:26] <Rocha> This computer is where I do compiler investigation.
[01:27] <Rocha> TheMuso, ok, i'll try that after lunch
[01:27] <jimi> but it works fine without network, but with network, base-install process fails when trying to install kernel package
[01:27] <TheMuso> jimi: Well just install off the CD, and choose to not install software from the net, and try and get the network set up post-install.
[01:28] <Rocha> I just use this computer for java development, not as a desktop so any linux distro works.
[01:28] <jimi> i will 
[01:28] <Rocha> But I just wanted to install ubuntu to show to my collegues here.
[01:29] <jimi> but i would rather wait the bugfix and get a flawless install process =)
[01:32] <rexiboy> hello all
[01:33] <rexiboy> trying to get firewire workin, can some 1 point in the right direction plz?
[01:35] <Hmmmmm_> guys when's warty due?
[01:35] <Noodles> 2 days IIRC.
[01:35] <sanitario> the schedule says tomorrow, right? 
[01:35] <robtaylor> yo. so, if i want to make a custom live cd using ubuntu as my base, whats the best place to start?
[01:35] <sanitario> hm, 20th
[01:35] <Hmmmmm_> Noodles, if i download and innstall the beta version can i then upgrade to the final release?
[01:36] <Noodles> Yes.
[01:36] <Noodles> There should be very few, if any, changes between now and release.
[01:36] <Hmmmmm_> can i then just apt-get the updates?
[01:37] <Noodles> Aye.
[01:37] <Hmmmmm_> is gnome 2.8 stable in warty?
[01:37] <kent> Hmmmmm_, yes. I have had no problems at all with gnome.
[01:37] <Hmmmmm_> kent, thnx
[01:38] <Hmmmmm_> fedora just sucks sooooo much memory that i wana dump it
[01:38] <Hmmmmm_> i just want my mails to be safe
[01:38] <Hmmmmm_> how do i back up evolution 1.46 mails?
[01:39] <Hmmmmm_> can i just "cp -a /home/user/.evolution"?
[01:40] <kent> Hmmmmm_, Fedora should not differ that much in memory usage. Since if you run gnome from Ubuntu and gnome from Fedora it should be mostly the same +- some patches which should not make any difference..
[01:41] <Hmmmmm_> kent, actually i felt a sea change is speed after i installed ubuntu
[01:41] <maswan> 
[01:42] <maswan> oops
[01:42] <maswan> I meant:
[01:42] <Hmmmmm_> i hav a 1.1 gig celeron machine with 256 mb of RAM. fc2 runs S-L-O-W
[01:42] <Hmmmmm_> 
[01:42] <maswan> daniels: on a not so awesome note, about half the time I don't come back up from suspend
[01:42] <Hmmmmm_> and ubuntu just zipz
[01:42] <Hmmmmm_> i duno why... frankly i dont care why
[01:42] <daniels> maswan: have you got centrino wireless?
[01:42] <Hmmmmm_> im moving to ubuntu
[01:42] <maswan> daniels: yes
[01:42] <Hmmmmm_> always wanted to move to debian but felt too lazy to install it
[01:42] <daniels> maswan: ahr, bong
[01:43] <maswan> daniels: translation needed. :)
[01:43] <daniels> maswan: will put up -0ubuntu2 or -2 or whatever with the fix soon
[01:43] <daniels> maswan: bong -> crack
[01:43] <maswan> daniels: thanks :)
[01:45] <rexiboy> so the stable release will be much the same as this one?
[01:45] <rexiboy> apt-get update should do the trick?
[01:46] <TheMuso> daniels: What suspend to disk features are your X40 packages using, or do they not yet support suspend-to-disk?
[01:46] <Hmmmmm_> rexiboy, i think "apt-get upgrade" ought to do the trick. correct me if i'm wrong
[01:47] <daniels> TheMuso: they just suspend to ram.  it uses 5% of battery every 8 hours.  just today, I ran the battery to 0, then kept watching a movie for half an hour (after it hit zero, after it fired an annoying three-beep pattern at me a couple of times, after the two-beep pattern), and it kept on going; after that, it was in s3 (suspend-to-ram) for about ... maybe an hour.
[01:47] <rexiboy> Hmmmmm_, that's good, because I got everything working and would like to keep it like this...:)
[01:48] <Hmmmmm_> can anyone pls tell me how i can backup my evolution 1.4.6 mail so I can happily move to ubuntu?
[01:48] <daniels> unless you have a desperate need to hibernate for like a week, there's not much point :)
[01:48] <janl> just 5%?
[01:48] <TheMuso> daniels: Hmmm. Know of any way that I may be able to test whether the suspend to ram scripts would be as effective on an R50?
[01:49] <daniels> janl: right
[01:49] <janl> so if my battery is fully unloaded after one nights suspend, ive got a problem?
[01:49] <daniels> TheMuso: measure battery charge.  suspend to ram.  time.  resume.  measure battery charge again.
[01:49] <daniels> janl: running on an x40?
[01:49] <janl> no, R51
[01:50] <sanitario> daniels: so your usb doesn't get b0rked after a suspend? 
[01:50] <vrln> daniels: do you know if the nv driver will support the geforce 6800 at some point? the current nv driver in xorg and xfree86 doesn't work
[01:50] <rexiboy> any ideas how to get firewire workin?
[01:50] <uman> try the nvidia one then
[01:51] <zahm1> anyone know a good radeon-drivers howto for 9600xt?
[01:51] <daniels> sanitario: the scripts have rmmod ehci_hcd and modprobe ehci_hcd, in them
[01:51] <janl> daniels: 100% loaded, new battery, suspened around 10pm. 8am next morning the battery is completly empty
[01:51] <vrln> uman: yes it works perfectly of course, but I was just wondering since it would be nice to be able to use the open source one too
[01:51] <daniels> zahm1: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto
[01:51] <zahm1> (y)thx
[01:51] <daniels> janl: are you using the thinkpad-x40-support package?  http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/x40/
[01:52] <janl> daniels: ah no, sorry, maybe i just hijacked your discussion with maswan that was very x40-specific :)
[01:52] <sanitario> daniels: oh, ok... but it loads properly when you resume? 
[01:52] <daniels> janl: heh, yeah, it's quite x40-specific, sorry :)
[01:52] <daniels> sanitario: yeah, absolutely
[01:53] <maswan> janl: you don't have a x40? pfft. :P
[01:53] <janl> maswan: :)
[01:53] <sanitario> daniels: that's so unfair :/
[01:54] <janl> everything works perfectly (except for that damn softmodem), except that it seems to use alot of power while suspended
[01:55] <daniels> janl: what sort of laptop is it?
[01:55] <janl> daniels: thinkpad r51
[01:55] <daniels> janl: unless you're explicitly doing echo 3 > /proc/acpi/sleep, you're not actually suspending :) just turning off the cpu
[01:56] <janl> daniels: that exactly what im doing :)
[01:57] <janl> daniels: and if i rmmod ehci_hcd first, it even actually suspend :) and no trouble waking up later
[01:59] <sani> woohoo, it works
[01:59] <ondrej> g'afternoon
[02:00] <ondrej> what I miss in ubuntu is some better support for road warriors :-( I use my nb at two locations at work (eth0/static and eth0/dhcp), at home (usb CDMA modem)
[02:00] <janl> daniels: could the "_bios"-part in acpi_sleep have something to do with it perhaps?
[02:00] <ondrej> and it's hell to reconfigure my interfaces each time I change location
[02:00] <shady> what does modprob FATAL error Inserting hw_random means ? 
[02:00] <daniels> janl: shouldn't be
[02:00] <daniels> but give it a shot
[02:01] <daniels> shady: not a problem
[02:01] <shady> daniels: what do you mean not a problem i get very nervous when I see "FATAL" something :/ 
[02:02] <janl> daniels: ill do that, thanks!
[02:02] <daniels> janl: hm weird, are you just using acpi-support, or acpi-support-x40?
[02:02] <Kamion> it's FATAL to modprobe itself, but not to the system as a whole
[02:02] <shady> so there's nothing I'm suppose to do to fix that ? just learn to live with that ?
[02:02] <daniels> shady: it means someone was sloppy and forgot to tell modprobe to be quiet; basically, modprobe's saying 'I couldn't do what you asked me to', but what modprobe was asked to wasn't critical to the system
[02:02] <daniels> shady: just irnore it, yeah
[02:02] <daniels> janl: no worries
[02:03] <daniels> janl: google is often your friend for stuff like that.  with so many wacky kernels around, you often get advice covering every conceivable situation, as I did with the x40.
[02:04] <shady> ok, another problem I installed ubuntu twice and I got the same weird partition problem solveable only by testdisk 
[02:04] <janl> daniels: yeah, ive search around some, but haven't found any hints, just people having trouble waking up from suspend
[02:05] <janl> daniels: but ill try the s3bios-thingie
[02:05] <daniels> janl: ah, heh
[02:05] <daniels> janl: try removing all the modules you can
[02:05] <daniels> and just see if you can track down which module is the problem
[02:06] <daniels> ipw2[12] 00 is known to be a problem
[02:06] <janl> daniels: ah,, have though of that..i just though i was done with the rmmod:ing when i got it working at all
[02:06] <janl> daniels: aah, ive got a ipw2200, that probably the problem!
[02:07] <maswan> daniels: you just need every laptop manufacturer give you a laptop of all the different configs and models.. hmm.. and an hour or two of every day extra for hackery. :)
[02:07] <janl> maswan: du ocks helsld p ubuntu?
[02:08] <maswan> janl: nepps, hpc2n fortfarande
[02:08] <maswan> oh, helsld, inte heltid. :)
[02:08] <maswan> janl: well, it's like debian, but stuff just works. :)
[02:08] <maswan> Mithrandir: you're late :)
[02:08] <janl> maswan: yepp :)
[02:09] <Mithrandir> maswan: nah, I was before on my screen, slow IRC net, you know. :)
[02:10] <maswan> Mithrandir: ok, so we need a free and independant poll to answer this importan question
[02:11] <JanneM> janl: what chipset is it in that laptop?
[02:11] <Mithrandir> maswan :)
[02:12] <sanitario> ok, now my usb works after suspend, but not my pcmcia
[02:12] <janl> JanneM: well, um...lspci says something about  82855PM 
[02:12] <JanneM> ok
[02:12] <JanneM> wonder how close that is to a 855GME
[02:13] <JanneM> janl: you have 802.11a, b and g?
[02:13] <janl> JanneM: im a little bit suspicious, the back side of the computer is still warm during suspend
[02:13] <janl> JanneM: g
[02:14] <JanneM> ok
[02:14] <JanneM> 1.1Ghz, or is it faster?
[02:14] <janl> JanneM: and the wireless-LED dosnt turn off when i rmmod ipw2200
[02:14] <JanneM> janl: it should not stay warm, no
[02:14] <daniels> janl: try running ifconfig eth1 down, first
[02:14] <janl> JanneM: 1600
[02:15] <janl> daniels: no difference, still on
[02:15] <janl> hm, right now, the ipw2200 is my main suspect... :)
[02:16] <uman> wlan can suck some power
[02:17] <daniels> janl: ah well
[02:17] <daniels> yeah
[02:17] <sabdfl> janl: i have problems with the ipw2200 on a test toshiba laptop, i don't think the driver is very mature
[02:17] <sabdfl> hmm.. latest version is ipw2200
[02:18] <janl> oh, just to be clear, the led turns off when i suspend, but just not immediatly when i rmmod
[02:18] <uman> sabdfl: I think most linux drivers just try to get it working
[02:18] <uman> the advanced stuff might be hard to implement due to lack of information from the manufacturer
[02:18] <janl> im running ipw2200 0.10
[02:19] <janl> maybe ill just be patient and wait for the driver to mature
[02:19] <Mitario> hmm, are there any ideas to have a somewhat more user friendly update mechanism for ubuntu?
[02:19] <uman> I use wlan with ndiswrapper and the windows driver
[02:19] <shady> where is the list of the sources for the packges in ubuntu ?
[02:19] <Mitario> i'm writing some UI mockups here, but i don't know if anyone else has already started this
[02:20] <uman> but because it's a desktop system I've never looked at power savinf
[02:20] <uman> saving
[02:20] <|trey|> shady: /etc/apt/sources.list
[02:20] <uman> UI mockups ?
[02:20] <Mitario> yeah, as in, a more user friendly UI to ge updates
[02:20] <uman> so you are designing some frontend ?
[02:21] <Mitario> i mean, how the hell should a windows newbie switched to ubuntu know that it should start synaptic, click on refresh, click on 'mark packages with newer version' and click apply
[02:21] <janl> but ive got some starting points now, s3bios and rmmod ipw2200, we'll see tomorrow when i wake up if they help :)
[02:21] <uman> I agree
[02:21] <mvo_> Mitario: try "synaptic --upgrade-mode"
[02:21] <uman> I think that is what I like most about the idea of ubuntu, to make an easy to use distribution
[02:22] <uman> I always though it'd be nice to have some "
[02:22] <uman> "drag&drop" package management
[02:22] <uman> people could just pull of a package from some site, and it'd install all the deps without them having to do much
[02:23] <uman> and you could show the deps in some tree of nodes or such,and it getting each node
[02:23] <Mitario> mvo_, I would rather have some easy status page/app with a list of security updates or program updates somewhere ;)
[02:23] <Mitario> which could then call 'synaptic --upgrade-mode' for that matter
[02:24] <uman> I think in the end people would like some graphical representation of a package manager
[02:25] <uman> as nice as it is for geeks, most people don't want to have to deal with CLI
[02:25] <Mitario> uman, well, synaptic is graphical : )
[02:25] <mvo_> Mitario: I'm interessted to see your mock-ups. there is a tray-icon based upgrade-notifier in development: http://people.debian.org/~mvo/upgrade-notifier-0.32.tar.gz
[02:25] <Mitario> mvo_, ok, i'll announce then as soon as they are ready :)
[02:26] <mvo_> Mitario: please do :)
[02:26] <uman> so it'll show up when there are updates available ?
[02:26] <uman> in your tray ?
[02:26] <mvo_> Mitario: will the mockups be glade files ?
[02:26] <mvo_> uman: yes
[02:27] <uman> very good
[02:27] <Mitario> mvo_, i think i'll just make some .pngs first :)
[02:27] <mvo_> uman: double clicking on it will present you a list of upgradeable packages
[02:27] <Mitario> with some global ideas
[02:27] <mvo_> Mitario: fine as well. I'm looking forward to it!
[02:27] <uman> mvo_: this assumes that the upgrade will work... what happens if there is a problem during it ?
[02:28] <JanneM> if there is a problem the system can't resolve by itself, stuf is broken and will need human assistance in some form
[02:28] <mvo_> uman: that's a tricky one. in general it will work as good as apt-get (and that's pretty good). 
[02:28] <uman> ok
[02:29] <JanneM> one way would be to roll back the update and wait a wef hours
[02:29] <mvo_> synapitc supports this with the menu item "Fix broken packages"
[02:29] <uman> as far as I understand, ubuntu is heading for a distribution that is user friendly
[02:29] <Mitario> mvo_, going to integrate your upgrade-notifier in the mockups too, so i'll try that one out first :)
[02:29] <JanneM> often a problem is due to some temporary problem on the server
[02:29] <uman> as much as I prefer to change things in the guts, I see the need for such a distribution
[02:29] <mvo_> Mitario: it should work ok, but it's in a early stage, so please tell me about any problems you may have
[02:30] <Mitario> mvo_, sure :)
[02:30] <mvo_> JanneM: agreed, good point!
[02:30] <uman> I'll have to install ubuntu and give it a test drive
[02:30] <TheMuso> uman: You will indeed.
[02:31] <Mitario> uman, be ware: you would be able to turn back from the uberbeautifulness of ubuntu
[02:31] <Mitario> will not*
[02:32] <Mitario> mvo_, is it a daemon <-> app which puts a widget in the tray via libegg or is it an applet?
[02:33] <mvo_> it's a daemon that uses libegg
[02:33] <Mitario> ok
[02:33] <mvo_> we discussed about using a applet, but we agreed on going with a tray icon
[02:34] <Mitario> right decision IMO, this way you could use it X-desktop environment
[02:34] <mvo_> yes and you usually want the information only if upgradable packages are available
[02:35] <Mitario> so eum, what's the way to test it ? don't have any upgradable packages atm :)
[02:35] <trip_out> hi guys - i have a little problem when trying to burn an iso using nautilus.  Basically the iso file seems to get registered with another app the moment I right click on it.  I see the write to CD option for less then a second, then the icon changes from a cd to a gnome foot and the option disapears.  any ideas?
[02:36] <Mithrandir> trip_out: which architecture are you on?
[02:36] <trip_out> amd64
[02:36] <Mithrandir> argh, I thought seb128 had fixed that bug.
[02:36] <mvo_> Mitario: tricky :)
[02:36] <trip_out> maybe - im doing apt-get upgrade as i speak
[02:36] <Mitario> mvo_, hehe :)
[02:36] <Mithrandir> the problem is that amd64 actually does what the code tells it to so it misidentifies .iso files as .arc files.
[02:36] <seb128> Mithrandir: the fix is not trivial
[02:37] <trip_out> ok....
[02:37] <mvo_> Mitario: I can make you a screenshot from my box (plenty of upgrades needed)
[02:37] <Mithrandir> seb128: sure it is, remove the x-arc entry, since it's wrong.
[02:37] <Mitario> mvo_, yeah, would be great :)
[02:37] <trip_out> so im gonna have to install k3b or something
[02:37] <seb128> Mithrandir: the entry is right
[02:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, it's not. :)
[02:38] <trip_out> hehe
[02:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: do the math by hand and you see it doesn't make any sense.
[02:39] <seb128> Mithrandir: the code is wrong
[02:39] <seb128> wait, I'm looking for the upstream bug
[02:39] <Mitario> mvo_, i have to go shopping, be back in about 15mins
[02:39] <mvo_> Mitario: ok, just ping me when you are back
[02:39] <Mitario> mvo_, k, ty
[02:40] <Mithrandir> seb128: tell me how       <match value="0x0000081a" type="little32" offset="0" mask="0x8080ffff"/>
[02:40] <trip_out> on another completely seperate issue, does anyone know how i can switch the default sound card?
[02:40] <Mithrandir> makes any sense?
[02:40] <uman> the bit I'm getting at is that I'd like to help the spread of linux and ubuntu seems to fill the gap of an easily used linux distro
[02:41] <uman> sorry for the long dealy, had some phone conversation going
[02:41] <trip_out> i have an onboard chip which has the system uses, yet I want the PCI card to be used instead.  It is seem in the Gnome mixer - I just can't use it
[02:41] <uman> trip_out: can you disable the onboard card in the bios ?
[02:41] <seb128> Mithrandir: https://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1507
[02:42] <trip_out> yes - but i don't really want to. ultimatly i want to be able to switch between the two as i have headphones connected to the onboard one for late nights:)
[02:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: no, that's not the problem.
[02:43] <uman> trip_out: you could recompile your kernel with those sound support as modules
[02:43] <moose6589> hello
[02:43] <uman> then just load the one you want to use
[02:43] <Mithrandir> seb128: the problem is you are using strtol, not strtoul.
[02:43] <seb128> Mithrandir: this one is http://freedesktop.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1506
[02:43] <seb128> Mithrandir: these are 2 differents issues
[02:44] <Mithrandir> sure.
[02:44] <trip_out> i expect they are already modules, i was wonderring if there was a simple text file that makes one card default
[02:44] <moose6589> heh i'm a linux noob, i just have simple question.. i've been trying to install gaim 1.0.1, so i extract to a folder, navigate there using cd, then type ./configure
[02:44] <finn_> is there a guide somewhere for how to upgrade a kernel 'the ubuntu way'?  i'm trying to get ndiswrapper working and apprently first i need to upgrade the kernel.  i've tried googling and the wiki didn't seem to have anything on this
[02:44] <uman> trip_out: probably the startup I'd assume
[02:44] <Mithrandir> seb128: can you please remove x-arc modules as it (as you can see) breaks cd burning on amd64?
[02:44] <uman> whatever gets loaded first rules
[02:45] <Treenaks> moose6589: you'll want to use the gaim package, compiling is not necessary
[02:45] <moose6589> it says no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH
[02:45] <trip_out> i'll have a little play in a bit - thanks uman
[02:45] <seb128> Mithrandir: you just want to remove the mime entry for it as a workaround ?
[02:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: yes; arc packages are _very_ rare.
[02:45] <seb128> ok
[02:45] <uman> finn_: are you sure that the kernel needs updating ?
[02:45] <moose6589> but my question is actually compiling in general..
[02:45] <moose6589> it doesn't ever seem to work
[02:45] <finn_> well, the wiki entry on getting ndiswrapper to work says that i need to
[02:45] <Mithrandir> seb128: I agree it's not the right fix, but it means we won't see this particular instance of the problem, and it's too late to fix it properly now.
[02:45] <JanneM> what _is_ an arc package? I don't think I've ever encountered it
[02:45] <uman> kernel >2.4.23 should be fine for ndiswrapper
[02:46] <Treenaks> moose6589: you'll most likely want the package, either from main or universal, but if you REALLY want to compile, apt-get install build-essential
[02:46] <trip_out> Mithrandir: whats my fix then?
[02:46] <Mithrandir> JanneM: ancient packaging format, similar to zip.
[02:46] <JanneM> ok
[02:46] <trip_out> aah thats why archiver tries it...
[02:46] <Mithrandir> trip_out: remove the section which starts with "  <mime-type type="application/x-arc">"
[02:46] <Treenaks> I used to download .arc files from BBSes using xmodem 8)
[02:46] <Mithrandir> in /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml and then run sudo update-mime-database
[02:46] <seb128> Mithrandir: agreed
[02:46] <trip_out> from where?
[02:46] <trip_out> thnx
[02:46] <JanneM> i'm from that time as well, and I can't remember seeing it
[02:46] <uman> finn_: what kernel version do you have now ?
[02:47] <opi^work> Treenaks: BBS, eh? Good o' memories ;)
[02:47] <moose6589> ok
[02:47] <Treenaks> opi^work: I used to be 2:283/507.4 on fido :)
[02:47] <opi^work> I couldn't get to Fido ;)
[02:47] <finn_> uman, the stock one that comes with warthog RC, and installing ndiswrapper-utils wasn't enough to get ndiswrapper to work
[02:48] <uman> for wlan you'll need ndiswrapper and wireless-tuils
[02:48] <uman> utils
[02:48] <uman> I don't know how ubuntu does it... maybe I SHOULD install it, heh
[02:48] <finn_> uman, it complained about a missing module or something, and http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/helpcenterhowto.2004-10-07.7773155363 says i need linux-image-2.6.7.1-3* or later
[02:49] <uman> I've used ndiswrapper with 2.4. kernels fine
[02:49] <trip_out> ?? Usage: update-mime-database [-hv]  MIME-DIR
[02:49] <uman> as long as they were 2.4.23 or later
[02:49] <lax> Hi, i installed Ubuntu RC1 and everything went fine in stage 1 installation, but when i rebooted into the stage 2 installation everything was fine until i got an error about ubuntu was not able to install all the packages. Then an aptitude window came and showed me the missing packages. I don't wan't to download all them. Can somebody help me?
[02:49] <finn_> the wireless config part isn't the problem, ndiswrapper isn't being happy (and i managed to get it working with gentoo)
[02:49] <trip_out> do it on /usr/share/mime/packages/ ?
[02:50] <uman> finn_: I'll better stop blabbing, I'm not eaving running ubunti
[02:50] <uman> ubuntu
[02:50] <uman> I shall soon, though
[02:50] <Mithrandir> trip_out: /usr/bin/update-mime-database /usr/share/mime
[02:50] <Rocha> Why does Ubuntu use the gnome icon theme instead of "Human" ?
[02:50] <finn_> that's cool, i'd be running it right now if i could work out how to get my wireless card working with it... laptop with no net connection is like a large paperweight
[02:51] <uman> I still use crux atm
[02:51] <uman> finn_: if you want a nice live CD, mepis has working ndiswrapper and wireless tools
[02:51] <uman> hehe
[02:52] <dyn> i'd love to see the gonxical gtk theme being shipped at least if not even default
[02:52] <dyn> as well as the gartoon icon theme
[02:52] <dyn> the most lovely ones for gnome
[02:52] <trip_out> that did it thanks! Just one more... How do I blanks a CDRW?
[02:52] <lax>  Hi, i installed Ubuntu RC1 and everything went fine in stage 1 installation, but when i rebooted into the stage 2 installation everything was fine until i got an error about ubuntu was not able to install all the packages. Then an aptitude window came and showed me the missing or broken packages. I don't wan't to download all them, they were about 2 gb i think. And that's the reason i can't use ubuntu in text mode i think. Can somebody help me?
[02:52] <dyn> trip_out: cdrecord dev=<whatyougot> blank=fast
[02:53] <Rocha> trip_out, in gnome 2.6 you can't blank a cdrom, you have to use the command line
[02:53] <Rocha> trip_out, maybe in gnome 2.8 they have corrected that bug
[02:53] <thom> Rocha: the human theme isn't complete yet
[02:54] <Rocha> thom, will it be in the final release?
[02:54] <uman> ah, ftpgnome.org is back up :)
[02:54] <thom> so we're using gnome for now
[02:54] <maswan> uman: it was down?
[02:54] <thom> probably not, i think
[02:54] <uman> well, I had problems getting into it
[02:54] <uman> 2 hours ago
[02:54] <uman> is fine now
[02:54] <trip_out> okay, thanks - thought this was 2.8
[02:54] <TheMuso_> What distro are you using trip_out 
[02:54] <trip_out> ubuntu
[02:55] <TheMuso_> ubuntu has 2.8
[02:55] <trip_out> thats what i thought!
[02:55] <trip_out> its gonna be a long day today i can tell ;)
[02:55] <TheMuso_> That was one of the main reasons I switched from Slackware to Ubuntu on my laptop.
[02:56] <trip_out> i hosed a Gentoo install, good opertunity!
[02:56] <TheMuso_> Is it possible to kill old nicks that crapped out?
[02:56] <uman> gome should lump some stuff together
[02:57] <maswan> uman: ok, I see no signs of a problem around that time either
[02:57] <uman> maybe it's just me
[02:57] <maswan> uman: had you said a couple of days ago...
[02:57] <|radio> TheMuso usually pinging it helps, causes timeout on the server
[02:58] <maswan> uman: we've had a few stability problems, so..
[02:58] <uman> my ISP's proxy is sometimes a bit weird
[03:01] <TheMuso> bbs
[03:01] <trip_out> that doesn't seem to blank it - either that or nautilus doesn't see that it is blank
[03:06] <lucas_> hi
[03:08] <mirak_-> hi hi hi
[03:08] <lucas_> isn't the meeting supposed to be now ?
[03:08] <lucas_> what time is it UTC speaking ? :)
[03:08] <mirak_-> lucas_, 1 more hour
[03:08] <Treenaks> ma okt 18 13:08:42 UTC 2004
[03:08] <lucas_> oh ok
[03:08] <Rocha> There are some bugs with the localization of Ubuntu
[03:08] <Treenaks> "TZ=UTC date"
[03:09] <Rocha> I have to change XF86Config by hand to set the keyboard to portuguese
[03:09] <mirak_-> rocha, what is different about the keyboard layouts????
[03:09] <Treenaks> Rocha: no, you can use dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 for that
[03:09] <mirak_-> rocha, I have only seen us keyboards
[03:10] <uman> :has used a german keybaord
[03:10] <uman> keyboard
[03:10] <Rocha> I have a portuguese keyboard, and XF86Config should have set the keyboard to "pt", not "us"
[03:11] <Rocha> Treenaks, thanks
[03:11] <uman> Rocha: maybe you should become part of ubuntu then
[03:11] <uman> get involved
[03:11] <Rocha> That would be great
[03:12] <lucas_> Rocha: which language did you selected during install ?
[03:12] <seraph> whiprush, rawr
[03:12] <Rocha> I'm a bit busy right actually because I'm doing functional languages research
[03:12] <whiprush> yo
[03:12] <Rocha> lucas_, english
[03:13] <Rocha> But I set the keyboard to portuguese
[03:13] <lucas_> Rocha: that's why it selected the us keyboard
[03:13] <lucas_> mmh
[03:13] <Rocha> lucas_, but the command line (bash) is set to portuguese
[03:13] <lucas_> oh
[03:13] <lucas_> you might want to file a bug then
[03:13] <Rocha> lucas_, ok, i have filed 2 already today :)
[03:13] <__daniel> Rocha, you did   dpkg-reconfigure locales  ?
[03:14] <seraph> I have a question, what is "bouncing cow"
[03:14] <seraph> I've not seen this one yet
[03:14] <Rocha> __daniel, nop, I never used a debian linux
[03:14] <Treenaks> seraph: it's a screensaver
[03:14] <__daniel> Rocha, sorry, didnt read the whole discussion
[03:14] <lucas_> file it against xserver-xfree86 and say you are not sure about the package you should file against :)
[03:14] <seraph> ah ok
[03:14] <Treenaks> seraph: the picture of a cow, bouncing on an off-screen trampoline
[03:14] <__daniel> Rocha, well, try it :-)
[03:14] <Rocha> I have never used the dpkg system.
[03:14] <lucas_> Rocha: no need to dpkg-reconfigure locales
[03:14] <lucas_> it is not a locales problem.
[03:14] <Rocha> Always redhat, suse, and now fedora, which all use rpm
[03:15] <lucas_> __daniel: basically, locales are for output, not input :)
[03:15] <__daniel> lucas_, sorry - well didnt read the whole conversation - it's the way i configured my box to have different locales
[03:15] <__daniel> lucas_, sure? :-)
[03:15] <lucas_> __daniel: yes.
[03:15] <Rocha> I just changed the keyboard to "pt" and then gnome says that the X configuration is different from Gnome's and asks me which I want to use.
[03:16] <crabbox> Rocha: use the x one
[03:16] <Rocha> crabbox, yes, I did that.
[03:16] <tseng> hm, looks like stuff in debian mallirat is getting ahead of warty
[03:16] <Rocha> but the problem is that my mom wouldn't know how to change that.
[03:16] <tseng> has anyone backported?
[03:16] <mirak_-> why does it say that I cant join #ubuntu (you need a registered nick) but it lets me in anyways????
[03:17] <lucas_> Rocha: don't forget to reportbug, it's important to improve ubuntu's quality
[03:17] <Rocha> And the wonderfull thing about Ubuntu is that my mom actually could use it.
[03:17] <lucas_> Rocha: I think the problem is X guess the keyboard to use using the language you selected during install
[03:18] <Rocha> Everytime I want to test a Linux distro, I use my family :-)
[03:18] <Rocha> They don't know how to use windows, so they are great test subjects.
[03:19] <__daniel> Rocha, i wish i could say that about my family :-)
[03:19] <Rocha> :D
[03:19] <staticactivity> after i made an apt-get upgrade, the permissions of .ICEauthority file changed to root:root, I had to Ctrl-Alt-F1 and change the permission manually
[03:19] <staticactivity> i was not able to login otherwise
[03:19] <Rocha> One of the things that i reported is that the usb pen drive contents pops up when i insert it, but when i close the window, there is no way of knowing how to open it again.
[03:19] <Treenaks> staticactivity: did you run a program as root?
[03:20] <Treenaks> staticactivity: an X program ?
[03:20] <__daniel> does anyone in here use any arabic locale?
[03:20] <Treenaks> Rocha: the icon is on the desktop
 yeah, gedit i guess
[03:20] <Rocha> Treenaks, no its not, at least on my computer.
[03:20] <uman> Rocha: maybe there should be an icon on the desktop ?
[03:20] <Treenaks> staticactivity: that's the problem then
[03:20] <Rocha> uman, an icon on the desktop or an entry in Computer->Disks
 but with sudo
[03:21] <Treenaks> staticactivity: still..
[03:21] <uman> I presonally don't like this automounting stuff
[03:21] <uman> but I guess it's nice for newbs
 okay, thanks for clearing that
[03:21] <Rocha> Since Ubuntu doesn't use the desktop for displaying icons, it should only be in "Disks"
[03:21] <uman> ok
[03:21] <Rocha> Automounting is great :)
[03:21] <Treenaks> Rocha: no the desktop does show mounted disks by default
[03:21] <JanneM> uman: I like it. I always manage to forget exactly how to access all the various gadgets I got
[03:22] <Rocha> Treenaks, strange, my pen drive didn't show up.
[03:22] <uman> I like it if it doensn't show extra icons
[03:22] <Rocha> I had to open /media/sda1 and create a link on the desktop
[03:22] <Treenaks> Rocha: strange
[03:22] <uman> but I should really shut up, I haven't even installed ubuntu
[03:22] <Rocha> uman, yup, its a great ideia
[03:22] <uman> I just came in here because I liked the artwork
[03:22] <TheMuso> ISP upstream carrier outages are wonderful. :)
[03:22] <tvon> uman: heh
[03:23] <Rocha> The artwork is of minor importance, the usability is what counts.
[03:23] <uman> the two young women and the man are now my wallpaper
[03:23] <uman> VERY god
[03:23] <uman> Rocha: true
[03:23] <Rocha> The first thing i changed was the wallpaper :D
[03:23] <tvon|x31> I'm not so into the brown in general
[03:23] <Rocha> Gnome 2.8 is a masterpiece in usability
[03:23] <lucas_> I find it inappropriate for most usages
[03:24] <Treenaks> Rocha: wait for 2.10 :)
[03:24] <uman> Rocha: I agree, linux has advanced to a stage where it should be easy to use
[03:24] <uman> and it's mostly not done due to lazyness 
[03:24] <jimi> 2.1 ?
[03:25] <Rocha> jimi, 2.10
[03:25] <uman> it's the job of the geek to make it easier for the noob
[03:25] <sanitario> two dot ten
[03:25] <uman> not to be elitist
[03:25] <tvon|x31> versions are not not decimal numbers
[03:25] <jimi> wheres the gnome roadmap, to see the features? :)
[03:26] <Rocha> www.gnome.org maybe
[03:26] <jimi> heh
[03:26] <jimi> ok ;)
[03:26] <tvon|x31> somewhere from developer.gnome.org
[03:27] <JanneM> I think the brown, earthy, color range is very calming and comforting 
[03:27] <JanneM> didn't realize how much I actually dislike blue/gray until I started ubuntu
[03:27] <Rocha> The colours of ubuntu are great
[03:27] <Rocha> JanneM, :)
[03:28] <uman> it's also very warm/human/earthy
[03:28] <dyn> and a bit boring too maybe
[03:28] <dyn> after a longer time
[03:28] <JanneM> I'm a bit conflicted; I like the color theme, but at the same time I have a favourite background image that is bluish
[03:28] <uman> there have been too many cold blue themes
[03:28] <JanneM> mm
[03:28] <Rocha> I have some C stuff to code, bye ppl, nice talking to you.
[03:28] <mirak_-> rocha, you will mis the meeting
[03:28] <mirak_-> miss*
[03:28] <jimi> bye rocha!
[03:29] <Rocha> What meeting mirak?
[03:29] <uman> what's the UTC now ?
[03:29] <jimi> meeting about artwork?
[03:29] <mirak_-> artwork meeting,,,,,,,starts on 30 mins
[03:29] <Treenaks> uman: TZ=UTC date
[03:29] <jimi> oh
[03:29] <jimi> cool =] 
[03:29] <mirak_-> well 30-ish mins
[03:29] <uman> I shall just stay here to witness it
[03:29] <uman> how long will it go ?
[03:29] <Rocha> ok, i'll just become away instead
[03:29] <dyn> everyone's invited?
[03:29] <Rocha> 14:29 here
[03:29] <jimi> i dont have lot to say, but will gladly read the meeting
[03:30] <Rocha> I don't think i'm using utc
[03:30] <mirak_-> dyn, I would assume so, it is a public channel
[03:30] <dyn> i've seen irc meetings with voice control on
[03:30] <JanneM> anybody can be here, yes
[03:30] <Keybuk> jimi: GNOME releases aren't feature-based, they're time based
[03:30] <dyn> channel +v, few ppl talks :)
[03:30] <JanneM> not sure how they'll organize it, though
[03:30] <Keybuk> so the features in 2.10 will be any that are finished in time
[03:30] <Rocha> mirak_, i'll be here for the meeting, you can count on me
[03:30] <dyn> that's why i asked
[03:30] <mirak_-> rocha, I just didn't want you to miss it...................
[03:30] <jimi> keybuck : hum ok.. thats why i cant find it on the site hehe
[03:31] <janl> i have a question about about automounting. I have a small UMS-device, it mounts just fine, and the icon pop up and everything works. However, when i try to unmount the volumy through nautilus, it fails, complaining that the device is busy. Some investigation shows that famd is holding the device.
[03:31] <JanneM> dyn:  if they do, I expect it is only to run messages through a coordinator so people don't all shout at the same time
[03:31] <janl> any idea how to tell famd in a nice way to let go of the device?
[03:31] <Rocha> mirak_, when it starts you can write my nick, it highlights
[03:31] <JanneM> janl: thought that had been fixed?
[03:31] <janl> ive killed famd manually a couple of times.. and google dosn't help much
[03:31] <mirak_-> rocha, rocha, no prob
[03:32] <uman> janl: you might want to try running sync
[03:32] <mirak_-> rocha, if im not too busy, as I am at work atm
[03:32] <uman> janl: if there is still data in the write buffer it won't umount
[03:32] <Rocha> mirak_, i'll try to pay attention
[03:32] <jimi> uman : umount isnt suppose to sync itself?
[03:32] <uman> no
[03:32] <jimi> oh
[03:32] <Rocha> yes it does!
[03:33] <jimi> :s
[03:33] <janl> im pretty sure ive synced, famd is the only one holding the device
[03:33] <Rocha> umount, syncs and umounts!
[03:33] <mirak_-> rocha, ad a "-" to the end of mny name....mirak_ is my name at home...use "mirak_-" here
[03:33] <Rocha> mirak_-, ok :)
[03:33] <uman> all the distros I've used you had to sync yourself first
[03:33] <JanneM> janl: that has been an old problem, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that it had been fixed
[03:33] <uman> unmount wouldn't do it by itself
[03:34] <mirak_-> rocha, nvm nothing special happens on this client to tell me you are talking to me........
[03:34] <janl> JanneM: ok,maybe i havnt tried it since the last upgrade
[03:34] <uman> a sync won't hurt anyway
[03:34] <Rocha> uman, strange! I use linux since 98 and it always synced before unmounting
[03:34] <uman> Rocha: I've found that especially flash USB drives won't sync on umount
[03:35] <Ng> it should do
[03:35] <uman> I always have to sync first
[03:35] <Rocha> uman, I don't
[03:35] <Ng> it should just hang until the writeback is flushed, then unmount
[03:35] <Ng> that's how my mp3 player behaves
[03:35] <uman> it just will say it's busy
[03:35] <Ng> (or behaved, until I started mounting it synchronously ;)
[03:35] <Ng> uman: that means there are open inodes, not that there is a buffer to write
[03:35] <Rocha> I can copy Eclipse to a pen drive, it gets virtally copied instantly, and when I unmount it, only then Eclipse gets copied.
[03:36] <Ng> Rocha: yeah. does that really annoy you? ;)
[03:36] <uman> I've jsut got so used of using sync that I don't worry
[03:36] <Rocha> Nop, I think it's the best thing ever. :)
[03:36] <uman> it'll unount fine
[03:36] <uman> umount
[03:37] <Ng> Rocha: fair enough, I found copying stuff to my mp3 player extremely annoying until I sync mounted it ;)
[03:38] <mirak_-> couldn't you just pull out the device???, or would that cuase damage?
[03:38] <Ng> if the buffer hasn't written to the device yet that will corrupt data
[03:38] <mirak_-> <-----newb sorry
[03:38] <Rocha> mirak_-, yup, that would cause damage because the files may have not been written.
[03:39] <Ng> the kernel keeps some disk data in memory to try and make the machine feel faster. when you unmount a disk it has to actually make changes to the disk itself.
[03:39] <mirak_-> rocha, but only damage to the data, corredt
[03:39] <mirak_-> correct*
[03:39] <Rocha> Yup, not physical damage.
[03:39] <mirak_-> rocha, kk
[03:39] <finn> is security.ubuntu.com down at the moment? i can't seem to do an update
[03:39] <mirak_-> rocha, good to know
[03:40] <mirak_-> finn, do you need an update, my system has no new updates needed???
[03:40] <Rocha> I don't know why I can't install ubuntu here
[03:40] <TheMuso> finn: Are you able to conenct at all? I am on WestNet in NSW, and found out that my ISP has an upstream carrier problem. It may be effecting you.
[03:40] <JanneM> with solid-state thingies like USB memories you really want to avoid writing too much anyway. Better to buffer changes until you _have_ to write it all once
[03:41] <JanneM> you only have som many write cycles, after all
[03:41] <Ng> JanneM: there is a lot of merit to that argument, but waiting 5 minutes to unmount after it already said the copy was done is too annoying imo ;)
[03:41] <finn> TheMuso, ah, that could be it.  i'm with internode, but international websites are working
[03:41] <JanneM> Ng: well, ok :)
[03:41] <Ng> JanneM: you'd have to be writing a hell of a lot to hit the limit, it's usually like 100k cycles or something ;)
[03:41] <Ng> but you are right :)
[03:42] <JanneM> isn't it more like 5-10k?
[03:42] <finn> TheMuso, no, can't ping at all
[03:42] <Rocha> Ng, just put this in your mind, "putting files in a pen drive is the same as putting files in a cd"
[03:42] <mirak_-> wow, I didn't know that you only have so many write cycles.....
[03:42] <Rocha> ...only written when you "burn" them.
[03:42] <Ng> JanneM: I guess it'd depend on the flash memory in use. I've only poked around the iPAQ, which was about 100k cycles
[03:42] <Ng> Rocha: no, because it's not the same :)
[03:42] <JanneM> mirak_-: well, you only have so many with hard drives as well...
[03:43] <Rocha> Ng, it's not the same but you can think of them as the same.
[03:43] <JanneM> mirak_-: you just generally have no idea how many until you find out the hard way
[03:43] <Rocha> Even your hard disk behaves that way
[03:43] <mirak_-> nannem, hmmm....maybe that's why on my last reformat I showed bad sectors????
[03:43] <Ng> Rico: I don't tend to unplug my hard disk and walk away though ;)
[03:43] <Rocha> You copy file x to file y and it is not actually updated
[03:43] <Ng> err
[03:43] <mirak_-> Jannem, hmmm....maybe that's why on my last reformat I showed bad sectors????
[03:43] <Ng> s/Rico/Rocha/
[03:43] <Rocha> Thats you the kernel syncs the memory with the filesystem on shutdown.
[03:43] <JanneM> mirak_-: well, possible
[03:44] <JanneM> mirak_-: anything mechanical will have a limited lifetime after all
[03:44] <mirak_-> jannem, but it was a yoper install, an I heard someone else have the same problem, so I blame it on yoper
[03:44] <Rocha> Ng, :)
[03:45] <JanneM> mirak_-: your machine - you decide what to blame :)
[03:45] <Rocha> Is anyone here developing for Ubuntu?
[03:45] <Ng> mirak_-: there is a tool called badblocks that will scan the whole drive and remap any knackered bits. It can take *ages* on a big drive though
[03:45] <Ng> plus it changes the disk, so it might eat your data ;)
[03:45] <Ng> but it seems to be ok
[03:45] <zenwhen_> is AIM down for anyone else?
[03:45] <Rocha> JanneM, usually the problem is between the monitor and the chair. :D
[03:46] <Rocha> zenwhen, i use msn, not aim
[03:46] <zenwhen_> oh
[03:47] <zenwhen_> I was checking to see if AIM was just down for me
[03:47] <zenwhen_> I cant just use msn because most of the people I know only use AIM.
[03:47] <JanneM> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fArtwork
[03:47] <Rocha> In Portugal, almost everyone uses msn, not aim :)
[03:48] <lucas_> Rocha: not only it .pt ;)
[03:48] <AndyFit1> aim is fine for me here.  not that talk to many people on it 
[03:48] <uman> use gaim then
[03:48] <uman> I mostly use yahoo
[03:48] <Rocha> Gaim sucks for me, no proxy support
[03:49] <uman> but gaim supports many networks
[03:49] <Rocha> I don't have internet at home, only at faculty, and I'm behind a proxy server.
[03:49] <uman> I'm mostly on yahoo, so I use a chat client for it anyway
[03:49] <Rocha> Only amsn works, gaim doesn't
[03:49] <AndyFit1> im proud to say the majority of the family, friends and developers contacts on my buddy list are jabber or irc.  then msn then icq then aol then yahoo  
[03:50] <Rocha> Everyone should use jabber
[03:50] <mirak_-> jabber??
[03:50] <Rocha> Yes, it's a free protocol
[03:50] <chowells> does ubuntu have a run level service editor?
[03:50] <JanneM> it's actually a little sad that I can access samba shares with no problem at work, but there is no painless way of sharing data between two Linux machines
[03:50] <Rocha> msn is proprietary
[03:51] <uman> the problem with jabber is that not many people use it
[03:51] <Rocha> I only use free software
[03:51] <JanneM> won't iChat support Jabber?
[03:51] <uman> JanneM: how about NFS ?
[03:51] <lucas_> JanneM: it will
[03:51] <JanneM> uman: not exactly painless to setup
[03:51] <Rocha> JanneM, isn't that the Apple client?
[03:51] <JanneM> yp
[03:51] <uman> I thought it was pretty easy
[03:51] <uman> you can still use samba on both if you must
[03:52] <JanneM> I've been looking for a way to have cht with my girlfriend
[03:52] <mirak_-> will all of my gnome apps work under xfce4????
[03:52] <JanneM> uman: setting up nfs isn't something I could guide a friend over a phone
[03:52] <JanneM> mirak_-: yes, if you have the libs installed
[03:52] <Rocha> I'm implementing an NFS server and client, please don't speak NFS again :D :D :D
[03:52] <mirak_-> jannem, well I use ubuntu....so I assume I do.....
[03:53] <Rocha> It's not really NFS, but is very similar.
[03:53] <JanneM> uman: I don't think I could do it myself and be absolutely sure I've covered all security implications
[03:53] <Kinnison> mirak_-: they should. They won't be as well integrated (potentially) though
[03:53] <lucas_> Rocha: distributed ?
[03:53] <lucas_> you know about NFS-P ?
[03:53] <jimi-> hum
[03:53] <Rocha> Yup, distributed.
[03:53] <jimi-> need for speed?
[03:53] <jimi-> xD
[03:53] <Ng> haha
[03:54] <Ng> NFS-HP > *
[03:54] <Rocha> jimi-, network file system
[03:54] <jimi-> =)
[03:54] <Rocha> lucas_, unfortunatly in C
[03:54] <JanneM> would love something simple over ssh/scp
[03:54] <mirak_-> kinnison, that is ok, I just want to go out on my own a bit......without going too deep, for learnings sake
[03:54] <lucas_> Rocha: which language are you using ?
[03:54] <JanneM> the nautilus integration to make it painles isn't there yet, though
[03:54] <Kinnison> mirak_-: xfce4 is a pleasant little desktop environment then :-)
[03:54] <Rocha> lucas_, [14:54]  <Rocha> lucas_, unfortunatly in C
[03:54] <zikade> JanneM, try unisono...
[03:54] <Kinnison> mirak_-: It is at least GTK2 based :-)
[03:54] <Ng> JanneM: I really like the nautilus sftp stuff :)
[03:55] <lucas_> Rocha: isn't NFSP C ?
[03:55] <JanneM> zikade: unison is nice, but not really what I mean
[03:55] <Ng> but you can mount things over ssh without using gnome-vfs
[03:55] <lucas_> http://www-id.imag.fr/Laboratoire/Membres/Lombard_Pierre/nfsp/
[03:55] <JanneM> Ng: I have big problems getting it to work
[03:55] <mirak_-> kinnison, what is this GTK2 stuff, and yes it is nice, but I am torn between gnome and xfce4
[03:55] <Ng> JanneM: doh. It talks to a variety of redhat/debian boxes fine for me :(
[03:55] <JanneM> mirak_-: xfce4 also uses gtk2
[03:55] <mirak_-> kinnison, but for now I decided on xfce4, like I said, to go out on my own a bit
[03:56] <Rocha> lucas_, i'm using C but I would prefer another language
[03:56] <Kinnison> mirak_-: gtk2 is the toolkit on top of which both gnome and xfce4 are built
[03:56] <JanneM> Ng: how do you do a remote mount with ssh?
[03:56] <mirak_-> kennison, jannem, ok.thnx
[03:56] <lucas_> it's difficult to do system-related code in something different from C ...
[03:57] <JanneM> Ng: imagine that you need to explain it over a not-very-good phone line to someone who doesn't know what ssh really is
[03:57] <Rocha> Not true. Eveything in windows is not done in C.
[03:57] <kfischer> Hi everybody
[03:57] <jimi-> hi
[03:57] <Rocha> Almost every book on operating systems uses Java.
[03:57] <Ng> JanneM: I forget exactly the details of it, but there are various userspace filesystems for Linux, one of which used ssh to mount remote things (ssh can tunnel data for other applications)
[03:58] <lucas_> Rocha: have you read OS: design & implementation ?
[03:58] <Rocha> C is used because most code is written in it.
[03:58] <JanneM> Ng: ideally, you'd right-click on a folder in Nautilus and mark the "allow other computers to use this folder"
[03:58] <Rocha> lucas_, no, just "Operating System Concepts"
[03:58] <Ng> JanneM: ok, fair point, it's not *that* advanced yet. It will get there though
[03:58] <JanneM> it will
[03:58] <Ng> I think some work in that direction has already been done
[03:58] <Rocha> C should die, it a very old language.
[03:58] <lucas_> the problem with doing system coding in Java is that it will be difficult to test your code on real world apps
[03:59] <Rocha> An operating system is being writeen in Python, as we speak
[03:59] <Keybuk> old doesn't mean bad though
[03:59] <JanneM> just a little sad that we're almost there for samba already, but not for something Unix native
[03:59] <Rocha> s/writeen/written
[03:59] <Keybuk> Rocha: but Python is written in C ... :o)
[03:59] <jimi> rocha : oh, interesting, whats the project name btw?
[03:59] <Rocha> Keybuk, not necessarily, you have implementations in Java.
[03:59] <Rocha> jimi, ununumium i think
[04:00] <Rocha> Keybuk, and I'm sure there are implementations of python written in python
[04:00] <dyn> actually
[04:00] <dyn> it's not pure python
[04:00] <Ng> JanneM: UNIX's heritage doesn't fit that too well though
[04:00] <dyn> it got everything as i've heard to run a python interpreter
[04:00] <mirak_-> metting starts real soon!!!!!!!!
[04:00] <dyn> a pure python stuff would be to run a kernel which interprets python at kernel level :)
[04:00] <jimi> gasp
[04:00] <uman> zinc runs in pythin
[04:00] <uman> python
[04:00] <Rocha> You don't need to interpret python, you can compile it.
[04:00] <jimi> OS names are getting worse 
[04:00] <mirak_-> start time is now on my watch
[04:01] <Rocha> 15:01 here
[04:01] <dyn> haha Jimi
[04:01] <uman> 3.
[04:01] <Rocha> Anyone here is a Ubuntu developer?
[04:01] <bob2_> Rocha: quite a few are
[04:01] <pitti> Rocha: me
[04:01] <uman> shouldn't the big meeting start now ?
[04:02] <kfischer> yeah
[04:02] <Rocha> pitti, i'll talk to you after the meeting then
[04:02] <mirak_-> how long is the meeting??
[04:02] <JanneM> until it's done, I guess
[04:02] <mirak_-> lol
[04:02] <pitti> Rocha: would be better
[04:02] <jimi> where is the meeting master :s
[04:03] <mirak_-> sounds good....i get paid by the hour
[04:03] <kfischer> could have guessed that answer :)
[04:03] <JanneM> well, I meant it seriously :)
[04:03] <kfischer> sure you do - but still ...
[04:03] <sabdfl> morning, afternoon, evening all
[04:03] <JanneM> as in "it will take as long as it takes to resolve the stuff"
[04:03] <seraph> hey
[04:03] <mirak_-> well, the devs could be out of it in a half hour, but we could keep it going all day
[04:03] <sabdfl> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fArtwork
[04:04] <kfischer> or more, if i read all the posts properly
[04:04] <uman> half an hour ?
[04:04] <uman> I thought it'd be on now
[04:04] <sabdfl> please take a quick look at that page and let me know if there's anything else we need to cover
[04:04] <uman> or maybe in an hour from now
[04:04] <Rocha> HelloWorld, thanks for comming.
[04:04] <Rocha> *coming
[04:05] <JanneM> looks like a pretty complete summary to me
[04:05] <sabdfl> i expect this will take one to two hours to get a sense of which way we should go
[04:05] <SepheeBear> there's a bouncing cow in Ubuntu?
[04:05] <uman> lol
[04:05] <seraph> As someone from an Islamic country (who is Indian, not Malay or even Islamic) such as Malaysia, I can say that any dress that isn't Islamic in the nature of its modesty will not be acceptable to the government here. In my opinion keeping images of humans off the artwork would be best.
[04:05] <pitti> SepheeBear: a screen saver
[04:05] <seraph> Personally I have no problem with it, but ...
[04:05] <kfischer> sabdfl - agreed
[04:05] <JanneM> SepheeBear: one of the screensavers
[04:05] <thom> SepheeBear: yeah, xscreensaver
[04:05] <seraph> people here were like OMG
[04:05] <Ng> not the cow! noooo
[04:05] <sabdfl> i'll work through that list one item at a time and invite people to comment
[04:05] <seraph> where are the devs?
[04:05] <seraph> who's chairing this meeting btw?
[04:06] <sabdfl> i don't want to get into an argument, so this is less a debate than a calling for opinions
[04:06] <uman> you could have 3 tuxes holding hands
[04:06] <pitti> seraph: they are right here
[04:06] <sabdfl> seraph: i'm chairing
[04:06] <yfir> i thought this was about the 'default' status of the splash screen, not removing things
[04:06] <seraph> sabdfl, shall I direct statements at you?
[04:06] <yfir> cow should stay :)
[04:06] <jimi> +1 uman
[04:06] <sabdfl> seraph: go ahead, when i call for it
[04:06] <crabbox> cows are sacred at India and it might give bad expression
[04:06] <seraph> sabdfl, ok
[04:06] <digitalsurgeon> i have no problem with cow
[04:06] <SepheeBear> that cow is awesome!
[04:06] <digitalsurgeon> ut i think it was a stupid screen saver
[04:06] <sabdfl> ok, this channel is unmoderated, and i'd like to keep it that way
[04:06] <thom> sabdfl: might want to +m whilst you lay out details
[04:06] <thom> ok
[04:07] <sabdfl> thom: ok, just for five minutes
[04:07] <sabdfl> hi all
[04:07] <sabdfl> we will just moderate for a few minutes while i lay the groundwork
[04:07] <sabdfl> we are going to work through each item on http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fArtwork
[04:07] <sabdfl> in each case im going to invite people to give their view
[04:08] <sabdfl> but not to argue with one another
[04:08] <sabdfl> we are trying to get a sense of the diversity of views, not resolve the unresolvable
[04:08] <sabdfl> we'll try to keep this channel unmoderated
[04:08] <sabdfl> please read the code of conduct (link in the wiki page)
[04:08] <sabdfl> please respect that
[04:09] <sabdfl> if someone doesn't respect that i'll point it out to them directly
[04:09] <sabdfl> and if that's enough, will ask the ops to +q them
[04:09] <sabdfl> but i don't think it will be needed
[04:09] <sabdfl> ok, let's go, thom could you remove the +m please?
[04:10] <sabdfl> thanks Keybuk
[04:10] <sabdfl> thank you to everyone who's contributed to the mailing list and forum discussions
[04:10] <Mitario> mvo_, back :) took a while :p
[04:11] <sabdfl> can i call for views on the distinction between default and available items in the artwork?
[04:11] <sabdfl> please each person put in your views, once only
[04:11] <jdub> (might want to clarify the question)
[04:11] <seraph> sabdfl, I do not understand the question quite right
[04:11] <uman> default should be very basic trying to be generic, non offensive
[04:11] <whiprush> nor me
[04:11] <pitti> available is okay, default "no" IMHO
[04:11] <sabdfl> what i'm looking for is a sense of how important the default is in terms of universal acceptance, if alternatives are available
[04:11] <Keybuk> [Wiki]  Is the existence of the artwork a problem even if it is not the default?
[04:11] <Telep> I believe it's most sensible to have a simple, abstract theme by default
[04:11] <Gallivant> I'd say the default's pretty critical
[04:12] <opi^work> sabdfl: I think default theme should be as plain as could be
[04:12] <yfir> I'm fine with the images themselves, but I understand why they would cause some "rumbling" among certain groups or in certain places. Hence, should not be default, but still available.
[04:12] <seraph> the default artwork as it stands is a no go
[04:12] <whiprush> I think the default is crucial to the initial acceptance of the distribution as  a whole. 
[04:12] <mirak_-> ahh, default to me makes no difference, as long as it is easily and redily changeable
[04:12] <HelloWorld> opi^work, not plain, but simple
[04:12] <daniels> we provide kde and other stuff as well -- hell, you can find fortunes-off if you want.  it's the difference between this potentially, being perceived as poor taste on the behalf of ubuntu, or as someone else.  anecdotally, the barrier to offence for the latter would seem to be far higher; there seems to be a higher degree of conservatism expected from shipping products.
[04:12] <HelloWorld> they're different things
[04:12] <Gallivant> I think the artwork's okay if it's not the default.
[04:12] <seraph> default artwork that was acceptable would be a bonus
[04:12] <morgs> If default is conservative (!=plain) : alternatives are acceptable
[04:12] <opi^work> HelloWorld: ok, simple's better word
[04:12] <JanneM> as seraph mentioned, there are a good deal of people that would not accept the artwork as default. At the same time, many people really do like it. So the question really is how available it should be - on the CD, downloadable package?
[04:12] <theantix> I think it's highly important that the default is widely acceptable
[04:12] <daniels> i don't think anyone would have a problem with Ubuntu if it was merely *available*.
[04:12] <kfischer> I think as default it would be nicer, it gives a happier impression. Which might be especially useful for the novice Linux-User
[04:13] <limi|london> how about an option on install? "clean" or "photos"?
[04:13] <opi^work> I think you can set something with Ubuntu logo
[04:13] <yfir> it's also important that ubuntu's default is distinct
[04:13] <sabdfl> ok, let's ask the question in a different way
[04:13] <pitti> Does anybody actually think that having the images available would _not_ be acceptable?
[04:13] <opi^work> and let me to download this fine GDM login screen with apt-get install gdm-artwork
[04:13] <sect2k> since you can not please all the people (for various reasons), having a simple, "neutral" default is the wy to go.
[04:13] <crabbox> unfortunately business world requires mild artwork...
[04:13] <thom> limi|london: we're trying to reduce number of questions, so that's a no go :-)
[04:13] <JanneM> seraph: from your horizon, is the login screen a problem? I know that would probably be acceptable here, even if the other images aren't
[04:13] <cbaoth_> I don't see any problems with the artwork being available, but it's not worksafe as a default... unless the bloke takes a shirt on. :p
[04:13] <limi|london> ok ;)
[04:13] <sabdfl> the login screen has no nudity, but it's certainly more aimed at fun than work
[04:13] <yfir> i don't buy the "the default art should be as plain as possible" argument
[04:13] <hernan43> crabbox: yeah i almost got burned on a reboot
[04:13] <seraph> JanneM, its not at all acceptable
[04:13] <JanneM> seraph: ok
[04:13] <seraph> JanneM, the splash is worse
[04:14] <Henrik> A large number of basic users will not know how to change the default, or know that it can be changed, or want to spend the 2 minutes required to find out.
[04:14] <seraph> the calendar is obscene here
[04:14] <Gallivant> The splash, IMHO, is the worst part
[04:14] <uman> I liked it, but I can see people having issues with it
[04:14] <seraph> ( not my opinion, just the populace here )
[04:14] <dewey> I have no problem with the current login I like it myself.
[04:14] <Rocha> Henrik, you're right
[04:14] <sabdfl> if our target audience is "ordinary people", should we still ship a default login screen that is oriented to the corporate, when corporates are likely to set it to suit them anyway?
[04:14] <seraph> personally, I am cool. but natives are .... not
[04:14] <HelloWorld> i actually like everything all around, but some people might have issues with the "naked people"
[04:14] <bdr> non-controtreversial!=plain
[04:14] <yfir> why not just change it to a non-default status. then everyone is happy, no?
[04:14] <dyn> default artwork will paint the first impression of the distro. it will get published in reviews, articles, etc. it should definetely fit the target user base (fun or work usage scenarios, etc)
[04:14] <thom> sabdfl: i think the real issues are that corporates will not set it, but simply not use it
[04:14] <sabdfl> seraph: please don't debate other's views, just state your own
[04:14] <pitti> sabdfl: yes, because if they see it the first time, they might be embarassed
[04:14] <tseng> a) to me it seems out of place, looks more like an ad in a womens magazine than a linux distro, b) its controversial in non-western areas
[04:14] <JanneM> well, as seraph points out, "ordinary people" in plenty of places would have problems with that default as well
[04:14] <littlepaul> change the "nude" images ;-)
[04:14] <thom> (where the latter "it" is the distro)
[04:14] <daniels> sabdfl: i personally think we should go for least-possible-offence caused.
[04:15] <darkersatanic> I think there is definitely sufficient cause to change the current artwork.
[04:15] <yfir> i mean, is anyone aguing that the current image MUST be the default? i don't think so
[04:15] <jdub> it's inappropriate for a large audience of 'ordinary people' too, plus it goes against our 'greatest common factor' goal of the desktop.
[04:15] <darkersatanic> I don't know if there would be a problem with shipping the current artwork as an option.
[04:15] <kfischer> Yes. Definitely. It shows that it might be fun to use Ubuntu...
[04:15] <crabbox> easiest way is to make universal theme which does not offend anyone and then do other (the nice looking ones) as themes which you can select
[04:15] <opi^work> sabdfl: I love this GDM screen, and don't find it ofensive, funny this is, after reading all this talks on ML I've stumped on flash-ad on big portal with naked females. Noone complained. Females in bra are even better. 
[04:15] <seraph> sabdfl, personally, I dodge my mother just logging in
[04:15] <uman> it's fine as an option, but should not be default
[04:15] <Gallivant> It may be installed, but our hypothetical corporation is probably going to see selecting it as no different than downloading and selecting it.
[04:15] <lucas_> I personally liked the theme used during beta test (the one with the globe), and was very disapointed to see it replaced.
[04:15] <seraph> at college, on the laptop, I had to dodge lecturers
[04:15] <yfir> i liked it too
[04:16] <dyn> the current artwork goes into dangerous directions. many people would refuse even to have a closer look because of the first impression of the distro suggest that it's not for them
[04:16] <One> yayy
[04:16] <bdr> i use the globe one still - downloaded it off the wiki
[04:16] <yfir> dangerous directions? haha
[04:16] <seraph> so it bothered me socially
[04:16] <SepheeBear> hand out t-shirts, snap another picture, make that default..... and there STILL will be people who'll want to gripe about it
[04:16] <krischan> dyn: to engage the former discussion again: where in the file system would you recommomend to place a already-compiled application, and why?
[04:16] <yfir> it's hardly dangerous. it's tacky  because it looks like a Beneton comercial
[04:16] <crabbox> try to use human theme at middle east and you get sacked for good
[04:16] <dyn> krischan: i thought we're in an artwork meeting :) i guess we'd rather stick to the topic and get back to that when we end
[04:16] <brosen> I showed the art to my mother :-) But I don't think it should be default
[04:16] <Gallivant> The problem with citing Benneton is that the wiki explicitely cites that as an inspiration
[04:16] <seraph> yfir, its obscene here. I can't use it. I was embarrassed the first time it appeared.
[04:17] <yfir> obscene?
[04:17] <uman> you could leave is as an optional "theme" but not as default
[04:17] <theantix> having the current artwork by default also makes Ubuntu known as "that distro with naked people" for better or for worse
[04:17] <JanneM> many people do like it, though - and the calendar is a great idea - so it shouldn't be dumped altogether either
[04:17] <jsc> i liked it , but i can see how it would be a problem in some situations... make it an option to install ... but not the default
[04:17] <opi^work> Im kinda surprised that people that face adv-p0rnography, TV sex and nudity are ofended by people that are not naked :-)
[04:17] <lhb> my wife thinks its awesome
[04:17] <seraph> opi^work, here non of that is legal :)
[04:17] <seraph> none
[04:17] <sabdfl> opi^work: please don't get into a debate about other's values, just speak for yourself
[04:17] <opi^work> sabdfl: ok
[04:17] <Rocha> How can anyone think of nudity when using ubuntu??!!?!?
[04:17] <dyn> keeping the current artwork will pretty soon tag ubuntu as the 'gay distro' indeed. we've already discussed this briefly this morning, many ppl i know reacted like that
[04:18] <opi^work> sabdfl: maybe a switch while installation would be helful?
[04:18] <Rocha> dyn, are you crazy?
[04:18] <pitti> Personally I find the images distracting, and I would be embarassed to have them in the Uni or in a company
[04:18] <cbaoth_> First impressions matter I'm afriad.
[04:18] <dyn> indeed
[04:18] <seraph> sabdfl, I'd say that the artwork was highly professional, but needs to be toned down a lot
[04:18] <opi^work> sabdfl: ,,what evn. are you targetting?'' corporate/home
[04:18] <seraph> pitti, same sentiments
[04:18] <seraph> a corporate theme is confidence inspiring to home users
[04:18] <Telep> It's not only non-western areas where it's controversial - my girlfriend said straight away that the splash and wallpaper were clearly more erotic than anything else.
[04:18] <sabdfl> we are not pushing for the corporate market at this stage, it's a nice-to-have
[04:19] <yfir> so if issue is: should these images be default - does anyone insist that they are the default? i mean, just make them available but not default and everyone seems to be happy
[04:19] <dyn> so it's a clean home/fun distro in its current market positioning?
[04:19] <pitti> My gf was not happy with them either
[04:19] <JanneM> and don't lose the calendar idea
[04:19] <flubie> in eastern culture, it is not acceptable, not to mention if you use it in universities or schools
[04:19] <maswan> sabdfl: the student-taking-laptop-to-school market though?
[04:19] <opi^work> pitti: OTOH, mine was :-)
[04:19] <lucas_> I don't have a gf, but changing the theme might help =)
[04:19] <littlepaul> what about some Zulu warriors? http://www.africamasterweb.com/AfricaMbebe/ZuluWarriorsSit.jpg ;-)
[04:19] <mirak_-> my gf thinks its fine......doens t se a problem, nor a reason to debate
[04:19] <crabbox> calender is good thing
[04:19] <sect2k> it's quite simple, if even one potential user is offended by this artwork, it should be a no go
[04:19] <dyn> drop it then
[04:20] <maswan> sect2k: I disagree
[04:20] <lkx> no drop, but optional ...
[04:20] <pitti> Displaying humans and animals of any kind is simply not acceptable in Islamic religion
[04:20] <opi^work> sect2k: no way
[04:20] <mirak_-> sect2k, we would then be left with shell only
[04:20] <kfischer_> How about a simple question during install with a thumbnail showing what is going to be installed and the option to replace it by something different?
[04:20] <yfir> you'll never please everyone. eventually, someone is going to be offended and you'll have to draw the line
[04:20] <opi^work> sect2k: If I dislike Gnome, should Ubuntu drop it?
[04:20] <Telep> and that was my first impression too - a naked lad touching two naked girls certainly didn't scream out "people caring for each other in a totally non-sexual fashion" :D
[04:20] <whiprush> if the target is the home user you shouldn't write off a business segment either.
[04:20] <limi|london> bash is pretty offensive in itself ;)
[04:20] <JanneM> sect2k: I doubt you could find even one solid color that doesn't have a negative connotation somewhere
[04:20] <jimi> microsoft is targetting not corporate, and spending M$ about such topic, they never put people images on themes (not to copy them, but to notice)
[04:20] <jdub> corporate market may only be "nice to have" at the moment, but there's a lot of active interest, and it would be unwise to endanger the opportunity
[04:20] <pitti> kfischer_: I like the thumbnail idea, especially in our text-based installer :-)
[04:20] <Rocha> What I think is, I there is someone against the "people" gdm image, you should take it out.
[04:20] <whiprush> jdub: exactly what I wanted to say
[04:21] <BenNovack> There's a difference between "Not actively gunning for corporations" and "actively pissing them off"
[04:21] <cbaoth_> ++
[04:21] <Rocha> Everyone should agree, there should be no discussion at all!
[04:21] <Telep> exactly
[04:21] <The_Bell> hello
[04:21] <chris_> No one ever complained about the old theme.  This new one is obviously causing problems.  I don't see why there even needs to be a meeting about it... :)
[04:21] <kfischer_> pitti, but that is your problem, not mine :)
[04:21] <Rocha> If a significant ammount of people doesn't like, remove it.
[04:21] <maswan> Rocha: there would be someone against that particular shade of gray for a single-colour slab gdm screen
[04:21] <JanneM> to put it this way then: do people see a problem with having the theme available on disk but not the default?
[04:22] <opi^work> but leave it, so I could install it
[04:22] <pitti> argh, netsplit
[04:22] <opi^work> some split
[04:22] <opi^work> :)
[04:22] <yfir> janne: me personally, available but not default
[04:22] <opi^work> back on topic
[04:22] <dyn> i dont think it'd mean a problem
[04:22] <limi|london> netsplit!
[04:22] <brosen> Janne - that's fine
[04:22] <cbaoth_> No.
[04:22] <crabbox> leave it on the disk but not as default
[04:22] <sect2k> bare in mind that what offends people and what people dislike is not one and the same
[04:22] <mirak_-> jannem, I don't see why that would be a problem
[04:22] <theantix> sabdfl: if you set a precent now with the artwork, in the future corporations and conservative orgs might be unwilling to commit even if the defaults change
[04:22] <Rocha> maswan, it should be a reasonable ammount of people.
[04:22] <Telep> having it on the website would be enough imho
[04:22] <SepheeBear> the more it pisses people off the more i like it
[04:22] <BenNovack> JanneM: Seems fine to me.
[04:22] <jimi> +1 yfir, in the theme manager
[04:22] <maswan> yeah, available but not default would be a good solution
[04:22] <krischan> dyn: Artwork meeting? Sorry, that passed me by!
[04:22] <Rocha> This kind of discussion won't help.
[04:22] <sect2k> the fact that i dislike brown color, does not mean i am offended by it
[04:22] <dyn> krischan: see topic :)
[04:22] <krischan> sabdfl: I think opi^work does speak for him-/herself.
[04:23] <seb128_> I agree with available but not the default
[04:23] <Rocha> I like the image a lot, if it's causing complaints, remove it.
[04:23] <lucas_> http://blop.info/screenshot.jpg <= screenshot of the GDM theme that was used during beta test - the one I preferred.
[04:23] <daniels> (the last anyone on this side of the split saw was 07:17 <@sabdfl> opi^work: please don't get into a debate about other's values, just speak for yourself)
[04:23] <thaytan> any LVM smarts aboot?
[04:23] <polok> g'night everyone
[04:23] <maswan> you'd still get in trouble in some ME conutries, but, well, not much you can do about that really..
[04:23] <sabdfl> do we have everyone back from the split?
[04:23] <flubie> default, no. alternative, ok.
[04:23] <darkersatanic> I think available but not default is a good option.
[04:23] <mirak_-> wow
[04:23] <dyn> i like the image too (love it actually), it's something new, something else, but still, it'd make too many people turn away from the distro
[04:23] <Telep> quite so
[04:24] <yfir> my view as well: imagery is fine, but not as default. 
[04:24] <Henrik> I also agree with 'available but not the default'
[04:24] <uman> it just depends on how global you want to make it, if it has to be "all the planet" you'll have to do it very neutral
[04:24] <sabdfl> lets skip to the next section of the wiki page
[04:24] <seraph> I disagree
[04:24] <The_Bell> I agree with dyn
[04:24] <sabdfl> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/WartyWarthog_2fArtwork
[04:24] <BenNovack> I think "available but not default" is the consensus
[04:24] <opi^work> 'available but not the default' for me, too
[04:24] <seraph> it should not be associated with ubuntu
[04:24] <uman> if you want to have some artistic freedom in it, you'll have to leave some folks out
[04:24] <sabdfl> can we have any default images that depict people at all?
[04:24] <JanneM> and keep the calendar? :)
[04:24] <sect2k> i also agree it's fine as a choice but not as default
[04:24] <drod> i like the images as well, personally, but I definitely recognize how much the artwork will limit Ubuntu's reach. Include it, but don't make it the default, that's all we're asking.....
[04:24] <The_Bell> lucas_ I get a 404 error
[04:24] <seraph> 'unavailable'
[04:24] <darkersatanic> Given seraph's comments, though, I'm not sure about the legality of even shipping it at all to (e.g) strongly Islamic countries.
[04:24] <Rocha> 'available but not the default' for me, too
[04:24] <jdub> default with people: i lean towards no
[04:24] <seraph> darkersatanic, what is the label going to be"
[04:25] <daniels> sabdfl: the entire split is back, yes
[04:25] <sabdfl> for this part of the session, please don't think of "people" as they are represented in the current artwork
[04:25] <seraph> "Soft porn Ubuntu Artwork" ?
[04:25] <uman> available but not default
[04:25] <whiprush> I don't think images of people fit well at all with a default theme, regardless of how they're dressed or whatever, it's just tacky.
[04:25] <rjek> Afternoon.
[04:25] <lucas_> old default theme : http://blop.info/screenshot.png (.png, not .jpg)
[04:25] <JanneM> darkersatanic: but as seraph points out - animals (including cartoon penguins, I would assume) are a no-no
[04:25] <jimi> my view is the same : avaiable in gnome theme manager but no people in default 
[04:25] <Rocha> Can we make a vote? With just "yes/no" answers ?
[04:25] <theantix> sabdfl: I would be okay with the current gdm image by default if they were all clothed
[04:25] <pitti> sabdfl: not in Islamic religion
[04:25] <BenNovack> I'm personally tempted to say that depicting people is fine - we can cover for ME countries by simply not making them a default
[04:25] <jg__> daniels: ping
[04:25] <sabdfl> Rocha: no
[04:25] <daniels> sabdfl: i don't think we can go with people for defaults -- witness the controversy about what they'd have to be wearing, whether depiction of certain genders/ethnicities/builds/whatever is okay, et al
[04:25] <opi^work> sabdfl: I think we could, just give'em Tshirts, so people would not get ,,p0rn'' idea
[04:25] <seraph> JanneM, people would be alright, but to be safe ...
[04:25] <seraph> remember, in some countries a bourka is considered decent
[04:25] <pitti> Personally I would prefer abstract artwork, regardless of the clothing of people
[04:26] <seb128_> me too
[04:26] <z4k4ri4> me too
[04:26] <yfir> seraph, there is no way you are going to please everyone in that sense
[04:26] <darkersatanic> JanneM: There are plenty of non-animal things one could use in artwork.
[04:26] <seraph> I suggest going with conservative dress
[04:26] <yfir> not even worth trying
[04:26] <seraph> yfir, then get conservative dressing on the people
[04:26] <opi^work> but this photo makes nice comp. to Ubuntu logo
[04:26] <Ng> it would seem a good idea to have humans in ubuntu :)
[04:26] <uman> I'd prefer to keep it human, make it optional though
[04:26] <maswan> seraph: there is no global consensus on conservative dress
[04:26] <crabbox> if we dump the people pictures from default installation then gdm artwork should be something else too
[04:26] <rjek> Surely you can't have a universally inoffensive default?
[04:26] <JanneM> darkersatanic: my point is, I doubt we even have an icon theme available that doesn depict animals, for instance
[04:26] <seraph> I *really* liked the professionalness of the artwork though
[04:26] <seraph> that has to be commended
[04:26] <SepheeBear> methinks this is *ONLY* an issue because Ubuntu's the best distro out there
[04:26] <dyn> nod
[04:26] <z4k4ri4> But your conservative dressing might different with other culture conservative dressing
[04:26] <darkersatanic> JanneM: Ah, I see your point. :)
[04:26] <lucas_> what about a picture with people dressed in a more traditionnal way ? The current picture means : let's unite people from all over the world, but dress them as Westerners.
[04:26] <rjek> Personally, I find the brown colour scheme offensive. :)
[04:26] <yfir> yes, photograpy was excellent
[04:26] <Keybuk> how does "conservative dress" play with (e.g.) the Muslim market, for whom conversative dress for a woman is entirely covered? *shrug*
[04:26] <flubie> how conservative is conservative enough?
[04:27] <The_Bell> It'll always be a problem if people appears in the artwork
[04:27] <regex_racoon> rjek: What about volvoman's ubuntu logos
[04:27] <sect2k> rjek: why not?
[04:27] <uman> it was well done indeed, great artwork, just not appropriate as deault
[04:27] <JanneM> silhouettes?
[04:27] <Keybuk> regex_racoon: URL?
[04:27] <Henrik> With more clothes and a wider distribution of age and good-lookingness, it should be ok to have some humans as default, but perhaps not everywhere and perhaps not such large and bright images
[04:27] <rjek> regex_racoon: I've only just joined.
[04:27] <kfischer_> The problem with abstract themes is that thea are - wonder - abstract. It clearly states that the computer is a piece of mysterious technology and therefore it cnnot be fun using it. Which is, in my opinion, the wrong way to go...
[04:27] <seraph> uman, agreed
[04:27] <maswan> seraph: I mean, the current gdm splash is ok as conservative enough clothing around here. Apparently it is not in parts of the world.
[04:27] <z4k4ri4> it is safer to use some abstract or symbolic picture
[04:27] <seraph> maswan, slightly more clothing would be best
[04:27] <BenNovack> The reason I'm not forwarding the abstract argument is that (If I read things right) the developers want to keep things *human*. Says so in the wiki. But again, just don't make it the default!
[04:27] <seraph> maswan, less skin, perhaps tshirts or something
[04:27] <maswan> But I would like to see humans.
[04:27] <dyn> if we could have a t-shirt on the guy at least, it'd be fine ;)
[04:28] <maswan> seraph: might be fine in your specific location.
[04:28] <rjek> I think less people would be offended if the models were attractive. :)
[04:28] <regex_racoon> rjek: http://www.volvoguy.net/ubuntu/
[04:28] <pitti> Human is not necessarily "depict real people"
[04:28] <uman> I feel very happy looking at nice people looking up at me, but I don't want to force my pervese nature onto others
[04:28] <Telep> Offensive or not, having pictures of people is imho too distracting, and carries potentially too many unintentional messages to use them as default artwork
[04:28] <maswan> seraph: thing is, it differs.
[04:28] <regex_racoon> rjek: I guess it's volvoguy
[04:28] <Telep> especially _photographs_ are problematic imho
[04:28] <seraph> maswan, agreed. but to make it available is an option with ore clothes
[04:28] <whiprush> next question please. ;) we could be stuck here all day.
[04:28] <yfir> should we move on perhaps? we are repeating ourselves on this issue now
[04:28] <BenNovack> I'm very much of the opinion that we just make the default abstract, and then don't worry about whta's *available*.
[04:28] <nosilver4u> i'm in the US, and normally those images are nothing to blink at, but I work at a Bible College, and I installed unbuntu the day the artwork is changed
[04:28] <pitti> Telep: +1
[04:28] <JanneM> Telep: I think that the sticking point
[04:28] <SepheeBear> people dig the whole "humanity" thing just as long as no real humans are involved
[04:28] <rjek> regex_racoon: Some of them are better - if a little overly plain.
[04:28] <Telep> I'm of the opinion that images of holding hands and the sort would convey the idea of Ubuntu much better than full images of people, which leave too much room for misinterpretation, esp. if they're half naked.
[04:28] <nosilver4u> i almost crapped my pants, cause my boss was sitting 5 feet away
[04:28] <bdr> i agree - faces/bodies on a computer are distracting generally
[04:28] <maswan> seraph: the _current_ one should be availbable for those that want them
[04:29] <nosilver4u> fortunately, he's understanding, and just laughed at my frustration
[04:29] <regex_racoon> rjek: But universally unoffensive?
[04:29] <kfischer_> But what about the novice user? Will he or she ever learn (and how so?) that there are far more attractive, joyful themes out there thhan just some abstract colrs/shapes?
[04:29] <JanneM> how about cartoon? silhouettes of people? animals?
[04:29] <opi^work> nosilver4u: my boss, otoh, said the artwork is fine :>
[04:29] <jimi> to keep the "human" thing, people can be drwn
[04:29] <jimi> drawn
[04:29] <Keybuk> kfischer_: I think so, even the most novice user tends to find how to change that
[04:29] <jimi> not pictured
[04:29] <ogra_> opi^work: mine too :)
[04:30] <uman> I find this whole debate ridiculous, but I respect the opinions of others, so keep it simple and non offending
[04:30] <nosilver4u> opiwork: did you just ignore the part about me working at a Bible School
[04:30] <yfir> i don't know, hentai is pretty offensive in some quarters too :)
[04:30] <opi^work> JanneM: I bet some pople would say some animals are a ,,no-go'' to
[04:30] <crabbox> drawing actually sounds good
[04:30] <seraph> maswan, the gdm bg is ok to ship imo, but the splash and calendars are a definite no no
[04:30] <rjek> regex_racoon: I'm not sure it's possible to be universally inoffensive.  Certainly it's possible to try and get close.  Some cultures have strong issues with certain colours, for example.
[04:30] <jimi> heh yfir =)
[04:30] <mirak_-> most windows/ex-windows users like shiny things, so im sure that one of the first things they go to do is make their desktop look pretty
[04:30] <cbaoth_> The splash screen is kind of hard to change.
[04:30] <nosilver4u> working at a Bible School=naked people on your desktop is bad
[04:30] <regex_racoon> rjek: Good call
[04:30] <bdr> they could just add gtweakui or some similar tool to the computer desktop preferences menu to make it more obvious there are alternatives
[04:30] <BenNovack> I work tech support at my university, and I can guarantee you that your average user will stop at nothing to put their prom pic/dog/kids on the desktop
[04:30] <sabdfl> jimi: i think even drawn representations of the human form are problematic in some cultures
[04:30] <sect2k> rjek: name a few?
[04:30] <Rocha> mirak_-, that's a critical thing. Make the desktop look pretty.
[04:31] <rjek> regex_racoon: Best bet is to go with something that's extremely tricky to avoid in real life, like blue or green. :)
[04:31] <opi^work> nosilver4u: god made you naked, so? ;) (sorry, this is not a topic here, but I couldn't resist)
[04:31] <Rocha> Almost everyone I know uses windows because it's pretty.
[04:31] <BenNovack> This is starting to get tangential, but what about adding a "How to get things done" popup at first login a la most of the major distributions?
[04:31] <uman> I must say that this "wallpaper" has been one of the most original ones I've seen for a long time
[04:31] <bdr> Windows? Pretty?
[04:31] <uman> it's sad that it offends so many
[04:31] <opi^work> oxymoron
[04:31] <nosilver4u> opiwork: i'm not biting
[04:31] <BenNovack> Rocha: I find that really amusing because prettiness is one of the reasons I'm such a linux fan!
[04:31] <jimi> sabdfl, yes, i personnaly think default shoud contain no people =) 
[04:31] <opi^work> nosilver4u: ok :)
[04:31] <shady> what lines do I need to comment on XF86 (for nvidia)
[04:31] <yfir> next question already...
[04:32] <BenNovack> If I can ask, since I missed the start, who here is canonical?
[04:32] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl, It's better to use the old one
[04:32] <sabdfl> i'd like to try to distinguish between "sensible default" and "acceptable to everybody"
[04:32] <daniels> sabdfl: (yeah, Islam prevents depiction of Allah's creatures, for two primary reasons, but yeah, they can be offensive in some cultures)
[04:32] <JanneM> clothed people in general?
[04:32] <sabdfl> for example
[04:32] <lucas_> z4k4ri4: can you define "the old one" ?
[04:32] <empop> I very much like the direction of the images.  I think that even if they are removed as default, the monthly calendar should continue in that direction
[04:32] <JanneM> sabdfl: "acceptable to eveybody" == "turned off monitor"
[04:32] <synd|work> Not true
[04:32] <z4k4ri4> lucas_: the one with just the logo
[04:32] <opi^work> you can't stasify everyone
[04:32] <sabdfl> if the login screen is not good in a corporate setting, and totally offensive in strict muslim countries
[04:32] <pitti> empop: it will anyway
[04:32] <uman> sensible = no nudity (sigh) generic symbols, stupid everyone the same
[04:32] <amin2> help. I lost my gnome panel. I did "sudo aptitue install ~tubuntu desktop". I works but I don't like it, cuz I lost my customize setting
[04:32] <sabdfl> then i'm curious if we could even put it on the cd
[04:32] <whiprush> sensible default should be sensibly boring
[04:33] <sabdfl> or in the archive
[04:33] <BenNovack> You can't satisfy everyone, but you can at least refrain from *insulting* everyone
[04:33] <BenNovack> Agree with whiprush
[04:33] <sabdfl> so let's postulate that the default images were all non-human
[04:33] <opi^work> ok
[04:33] <rjek> I installed Ubuntu on a linux newbie friend's machine last night.  He did mention that some people might take offense about the lack of representation of people other than men, women, white and black.  (Lack of asians, for example.)  
[04:33] <Telep> sabdfl: putting it on the website somewhere would probably be the safest bet, imho
[04:33] <JanneM> I think the main sticking point realy was that it would be default, ie. that people wouldn't have a concious choice to use the images
[04:33] <crabbox> sabdfl: I agree on that
[04:33] <BenNovack> JanneM: Agreed.
[04:33] <sabdfl> and let me ask people to give their view on whether images with the human form could even be on the cd, or if that would risk censorship in mulsim (or other) countries
[04:33] <opi^work> sabdfl: yet, human artwork should stay in Ubuntu
[04:33] <Kamion> I feel that if people have to actively go and turn an image on, then the onus shifts to them to ensure that it's not offensive to those around them. In the case of the default, the onus is on us.
[04:34] <maswan> Telep: somewhere on the website = in the archive
[04:34] <jdub> sabdfl: i'm a little concerned about the calendar images being installed by default. they're a cool feature for people to find out about and play with, but installed (even if not on) by default is a bit hairy in some environments. all the kids will switch to the nudie photos, etc... ;)
[04:34] <JanneM> I don't see a problem with including it on the CD
[04:34] <yfir> sabdfl: i think trying to keep absolutely anything potentially offensive to anyone from the archive is a fruitless battle. just worry about sensible, non-offensive defaults
[04:34] <seb128_> I don't get the problem with having it in the archive, people will only have them on screen if they decide to select them ...
[04:34] <limi|london> you could also change the approach a bit, and have images (like the calendar idea) from different parts of the world - African savannah, Brazilian rainforest, Norwegian fjords, Icelandic glaciers etc - be the "world distro" more than the "people distro" - that would be less confrontational and still have the global aspect of Ubuntu
[04:34] <sabdfl> Kamion: will the censors in saudi arabia agree with you?
[04:34] <Telep> maswan: ok
[04:34] <uman> I guess you stick on some toilet type human figures
[04:34] <Kamion> sabdfl: no idea :-)
[04:34] <Keybuk> sabdfl: I actually asked my next-door neighbours about that ... they didn't think they'd have a problem with things just being installed, as long as they weren't forced to look at them
[04:34] <theantix> sabdfl: I don't think the images are so offensive that they can't be included, just not by default -- if someone actively turn them on it is up to them to make sure they arne't offending anyone
[04:34] <daniels> sabdfl: i think having them is fine, just as it's fine for us to also ship fortunes-off
[04:34] <maswan> jdub: or for that matter for travelling into some ME conutries, you don't want to have that on your laptop in case you are caught in custums.
[04:34] <dyn> hah, one again. my noob friend just isntalled ubuntu for the first time 10 minutes ago. i asked them about the login screen's first impression and the answer was "a bit gay"
[04:34] <jimi> are penguins offensive in some part of the world?
[04:34] <dyn> so that's a definite problem
[04:35] <yfir> gay is a problem?
[04:35] <daniels> sabdfl: if people need to actively make a choice to see it, then they won't take offence
[04:35] <drod> to me, this seems to be a rehash of everything said in the mailing list over the last several days....with the drawback of not being able to participate much since I'm at work right now.
[04:35] <sabdfl> jimi: you should smell penguin poop
[04:35] <dyn> yfir: in the 'homosexual' meaning of gay
[04:35] <jimi> :s
[04:35] <crabbox> jimi: yes, here in Filand ;-)
[04:35] <uman> I think you could boil it down to this : What would you be comfortable with YOUR children looking at
[04:35] <sect2k> daniels: agreed
[04:35] <yfir> yeah, i know. what's the problem though?
[04:35] <opi^work> dyn: what's gay in famales in male? :O
[04:35] <opi^work> s/in/and
[04:35] <yfir> let's not get offensive (hahaha)
[04:35] <Napo> Hi all
[04:35] <JanneM> uman: not a good test as the answer will change by culture and by individual
[04:35] <kfischer_> uman, I found nothing offensive in ubuntu so far..
[04:36] <amin2> help..
[04:36] <dyn> opi^work: i _cannot_ explain, but i got the same feeling, and he's the 4th ppl saying that from my friendship (all straight with gf :-)
[04:36] <Napo> Where i can find a repository for Mplayer and j2sdk for ubuntu?
[04:36] <uman> neither do I, but normally we applu stricter standards to what children can "handle"
[04:36] <dyn> Napo: website, docs, universal repository
[04:36] <dyn> Napo: but we're in a meeting here right now
[04:36] <ogra_> Napo: http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats
[04:36] <yfir> napo, search wiki for 'restricted formats'
[04:36] <sabdfl> so is there anyone here who feels strongly that the RC images should not be on the CD at all?
[04:36] <uman> and that might just coincide with a more generic/general acceptance
[04:37] <sabdfl> what about for schools, universities?
[04:37] <uman> they should be one the CDs
[04:37] <JanneM> don't see a problem
[04:37] <BenNovack> Schools and universities will disable wallpaper switching anyway
[04:37] <empop> I feel strongly they sould remain ON the cd
[04:37] <Henrik> Just had a look at the Arabic news service Al-Jazeera out of curiocity, and it's filled with images of people (clothed obviously). If they are not worried about that, then I think we are going too far by worrying about images of people in general. I think those rules are only enforced by the most extreme regimes like the Taliban.
[04:37] <whiprush> I'm a .edu admin, I'd strip out the images anyway.
[04:37] <crabbox> keep those on the cd
[04:37] <kfischer_> on the CD, please
[04:37] <seb128> no problem to have them on the CD
[04:37] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: but they should be properly labeled
[04:37] <uman> they're like pieces of art, you wouldn't want to destroy david
[04:37] <yfir> i run an academic network. would be fine
[04:37] <drod> on th cd
[04:37] <jimi> i think the problem is about default install, choice is good
[04:37] <bdr> at my uni somebody got in trouble for putting an empty folder called "Porn" on a public machine
[04:37] <jdub> sabdfl: they could be in ShipSeed instead of DesktopSeed (so they're not installed on disk unless you actively choose to)
[04:38] <ogra_> Henrik: is here any muslim ? why don't we hear it from them ?
[04:38] <kfischer_> z4k4ri4, what does "properly labeled" mean?
[04:38] <BenNovack> If they're not in DesktopSeed, most users will never see them
[04:38] <Kinnison> sabdfl: On the CD, not installed by default, not copied by archive-copier by default, explicitly marked as something like 'ubuntu-artwork-human' sounds like a good plan to me.
[04:38] <xortw> idd
[04:38] <uman> Kinnison: agree
[04:38] <sabdfl> Kinnison: then why put them on the cd at all?
[04:38] <Rocha> I'll ask the opinion of some of my collegues tomorrow and I'll tell you what did they think.
[04:38] <amin2> help.. I lost my gnome panel
[04:38] <Telep> Kinnison: agree
[04:38] <BenNovack> I think as long as it's not the right-after-install-default, it doesn't matter too much.
[04:38] <empop> BenNovack: agreed
[04:38] <z4k4ri4> kfischer_: Give it a name like human photo or something
[04:38] <Rocha> amin2, don't talk about that now.
[04:38] <Kinnison> sabdfl: Because synaptic can then ask for the CD if the user opts to install it
[04:38] <Rocha> amin2, we're in a meeting
[04:38] <jimi> sabdfl, why *not* on the CD ? :)
[04:38] <Telep> or "ubuntu-half-naked-people" ;)
[04:39] <JanneM> nah
[04:39] <uman> where does human nature go if you can't depict bits of anatomy
[04:39] <crabbox> natural people
[04:39] <JanneM> ubuntu-theme-human
[04:39] <BenNovack> JanneM: What are you 'nah'-ing?
[04:39] <SepheeBear> on the CD with install option to include pictures of real people
[04:39] <uman> you're not going to show people just in veils
[04:39] <sabdfl> i didn't really get a clear view there, except that everyone seems to think they can stay on the cd
[04:39] <lkx> hope to see a decision named 'default smart' soon. gbye :)
[04:39] <JanneM> BenNovack: "ubuntu-half-naked-people"
[04:39] <JanneM> yes
[04:39] <uman> if you go to a beach you'll see people wearing less
[04:39] <lucas_> then, could you ship the theme used during beta test too (the globe one) ? ;-) 
[04:40] <whiprush> Keep them on the CD
[04:40] <JanneM> uman: but you choose to go to the beach. 
[04:40] <yfir> to some sects of menonite, computers themselves are offensive. give up trying to please all and work on developing a sensible default
[04:40] <Kinnison> sabdfl: It seems a pity to force people to download it; but I guess having it in the archive but not on the CD might be safer for getting the CDs imported into strict countries.
[04:40] <johnlevin> uman: depends on the beach
[04:40] <JanneM> people in business attire good?
[04:40] <dyn> sabdfl: we're mostly from europe or the usa i believe. i have zero idea how eg. asian ppl would react on that topic - they should be asked
[04:40] <jdub> sabdfl: subtle midpoint that was missed on the wiki: 'on by default' vs. 'installed by default' vs. 'on the cd'
[04:40] <lucas_> uman: ever been to the beach near the caspian see, in iran ? :)
[04:40] <|trey|> Ugh, more discussion about the graphics?
[04:40] <sabdfl> Kinnison: calendar requires download anyhow for ongoing update each month
[04:40] <z4k4ri4> dyn: I'm an indonesian
[04:40] <Telep> uman: you'd still be distracted if people were dressed to work in swimsuits and bikinis
[04:40] <BenNovack> I know Ubuntu is really big on not having the usual distro-style overload on 'choice' - only gnome, only openoffice, etc - but I dont' think it's a problem to have lots of options for wallpaper after default.
[04:40] <uman> I doubt that there is a culture that will not, in any form, show the upper torso of a man
[04:41] <bob2_> |trey|: it's a meeting.
[04:41] <dyn> z4k4ri4: wow, so make your voice heard!
[04:41] <z4k4ri4> I'm trying
[04:41] <|trey|> bob2_: ahh... I thought that was #ubuntu-meeting..
[04:41] <sabdfl> can we talk for a bit about derivatives?
[04:41] <z4k4ri4> What bother me the most is the gnome splash screen
[04:42] <Kinnison> sabdfl: true enough. Okay, I revise my suggestion to: Not on CD; in archive; not depended upon (which could result in strange accidental installation); package name 'ubuntu-artwork-human' and with a description which clearly states that it contains images which some cultures may find distasteful
[04:42] <|trey|> IMO, if the graphics offend anyone, they should be re-done or the old defaults should be kept...
[04:42] <BenNovack> z4k4ri4: Agreed
[04:42] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: what you mean about derivatives?
[04:42] <lucas_> uman: there are. in iran you can't walk around half-naked, for example
[04:42] <sabdfl> on the wiki i've describe the issue
[04:42] <Kamion> Kinnison: depended-upon would have germinate force it into desktop anyway, so you just mean 'in germinated supported seed'
[04:42] <dyn> z4k4ri4: you feel that the most offensive? would you feel offended to make it a choose-able alternative, not the default one? would you prefer abstract graphics as the default?
[04:42] <sabdfl> for warty, this is the only official release
[04:42] <uman> lucas_: but how far will you go ?
[04:42] <SepheeBear> i think the artwork gives the message to keep an open mind in general
[04:42] <sabdfl> but we expect that hoary will have many derivatives
[04:42] <xcasex> SepheeBear, agreed
[04:42] <sabdfl> each tailored for a specific industry or country
[04:43] <uman> if there is one tribe in africe that doesn't like showing your eye, will you forbid all depiction of eyes ?
[04:43] <Telep> sabdfl: I believe all over the world you will find a _significant_ amount of people who will be put off by half-naked people.
[04:43] <sabdfl> they may be coordinated by teams completely independent of what we do
[04:43] <dyn> whorey - as we heard today - lol
[04:43] <sabdfl> but we'll consider them official ubuntu derivatives
[04:43] <dyn> refering the artwork
[04:43] <dyn> (sorry)
[04:43] <uman> there has to be some measure of reason
[04:43] <Kamion> I'd expect it to be each derivative's choice ...? we're giving advice already by virtue of producing Ubuntu
[04:43] <z4k4ri4> dyn: But currently there is no user friendly way to change it
[04:43] <whiprush> derivates I think should depend on the derivative itself. ie. is it just "Joe's Linux, based on Ubuntu" or something else.
[04:43] <TheMuso> I believe that to allow for a useful Ubuntu installation for blind/vision impaired people, a separate derivitive is necessary.
[04:43] <JanneM> and a measure of reaason is, include it or make available, but make it optional
[04:43] <C2H5OH> hello all
[04:43] <uman> I'm fine with optional
[04:43] <uman> but it should be on the Cd
[04:44] <opi^work> and in archive
[04:44] <z4k4ri4> dyn: I prefer abstract picture
[04:44] <whiprush> then I think it depends on the usage of Ubuntu and other canonical stuff, similar to what RH does with their derivatives. ie. remove copyrighted artwork, etc. etc.
[04:44] <BenNovack> I'd say the splash absolutely has to go
[04:44] <yfir> sabdfl: not sure what you are asking us, but the idea of 'derivatives' sounds great
[04:44] <kfischer_> I think having different copies for different regions might be the best solution - granted, you always find somebody who is offended. But it's definitely the best choice to offer a tailored version for different region with different snsitivities.
[04:44] <sabdfl> should we require that the ubuntu derivative for the netherlands follow a code acceptable in iran?
[04:44] <yfir> no
[04:44] <JanneM> no
[04:44] <Telep> no
[04:44] <kfischer_> no
[04:44] <theantix> no
[04:44] <whiprush> no
[04:44] <perdix> no
[04:44] <morgs> no
[04:44] <ogra_> no
[04:44] <JanneM> and vice versa, of course
[04:45] <sabdfl> wow. consensus
[04:45] <crabbox> no
[04:45] <kfischer_> Wow...
[04:45] <Telep> :D
[04:45] <SepheeBear> i just hope this doesnt cause the Ubuntu community to split into two camps "shirts and skins"
[04:45] <jdub> sabdfl: i think it would be unfortunate to have derivatives made solely due to inadequacies in ubuntu itself (lame i18n, unfortunate choice of artwork, etc). that just dilutes ubuntu, without having a really good reason for the derivative.
[04:45] <whiprush> heh
[04:45] <z4k4ri4> no
[04:45] <littlepaul> no
[04:45] <JanneM> jdub: true
[04:45] <z4k4ri4> But make it clear that they could insult people in iran
[04:45] <crabbox> simple question and simple answer
[04:45] <JanneM> there are some things that are difficult to paper over, though
[04:45] <opi^work> but, OTOH, Muslim rules ofending my g 
[04:45] <bdr> apt-get install ubuntu-desktop-muslim
[04:45] <Napo> dyn, ogra_, yfir: thanks for the help ;)
[04:45] <sabdfl> jdub: greatest common factor inevitably implies a certain amount of lowest common denominator, and derivatives are our way of breaking free of that
[04:45] <opi^work> gf
[04:45] <whiprush> plus if you restrict what an "official" derivative can do, people will just make it unofficial and drive one
[04:46] <kfischer_> someting like that is already done with games, blood and no-blood and such things..
[04:46] <JanneM> you include the Taiwanese flag and you are banned from China. You don't include it, and you piss off a lot of Taiwanese
[04:46] <uman> greatest common denominator is to respect the values of your fellow man
[04:46] <jdub> sabdfl: sure, but derivatives should be picking bigger fights.
[04:46] <uman> if other people don't want it on the CD, don't out it on there
[04:46] <jimi> export nudity_percent="50"
[04:46] <C2H5OH> is there any successful story about upgrading from sid to ubuntu ?
[04:46] <sabdfl> a fight is a fight, and this is something we need to figure out
[04:46] <sabdfl> taiwan and china is a good example
[04:46] <yfir> it gets difficult too: do you include a "basque" derivative? a "quebecoise" derivative? political decisions
[04:47] <sabdfl> kashmir . india, pakistan is another
[04:47] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: You should choose your fight well
[04:47] <Jon_of_the_Wired> I think this has gone wildly off-topic
[04:47] <Telep> yup
[04:47] <uman> it boils down to if you think that your artistic value is more important than other people's cultural values
[04:47] <yfir> jon, it hasn't. check the wicki-topic page
[04:47] <lucas_> jimi: http://dindinx.net/hotbabe/index.php might interest you =)
[04:47] <jdub> sabdfl: for instance, if a derivative (with the same goals as the general ubuntu) is made for a region just because we don't include five well integrated pacakges, that's lame.
[04:47] <uman> do you want a "world" distribution or don't you
[04:48] <JanneM> jdub: real example?
[04:48] <sabdfl> jdub: even if those packages are only applicable in that country? disagree
[04:48] <yfir> why don't you follow the "style guide" of the UN?
[04:48] <yfir> hehe
[04:48] <jimi> here why other distro dont put people on their themes :s
[04:48] <jdub> JanneM: including japanese input support and fonts
[04:48] <bdr> you have to decide somewhere. available but not default seems fine for a generally liberal westernish distro. Anything more extreme could be covered by derivatives or alternative CD isos.
[04:48] <JanneM> jdub: yep.
[04:48] <kfischer_> As an artist myself I can only say: go for the artistic value. But then this is not about art, isn't it?
[04:48] <sabdfl> ok, i got what i was looking for, which was a clear answer that derivatives are a separate kettle of fish
[04:48] <jimi> lucas thanks ^_
[04:48] <dyn> kfischer_: should be about both
[04:48] <sabdfl> and we can have derivatives that address different cultural norms
[04:48] <sabdfl> let's move on
[04:48] <jdub> JanneM: versus a tightly honed, minimal firewall derivative
[04:48] <Telep> I think the developers should see that the value of Ubuntu is not in having fancy artwork, but in the fact that it's a simple, easy linux distro.
[04:49] <lucas_> sabdfl: what's the point in having "official" derivates ?
[04:49] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: Can third party make derivatives easily?
[04:49] <JanneM> mm
[04:49] <uman> it has to be global
[04:49] <sabdfl> lucas_: it's a big world
[04:49] <sabdfl> let's talk about the gnomesplash screen in RC, it's the most controversial
[04:49] <uman> each culture still can have their optional items
[04:49] <daniels> (two cents: needing derivatives to address cultural sensitivities is probably indicative of a shortcoming in the first place, as jdub alluded to)
[04:49] <sabdfl> because it is the hardest to change
[04:49] <dyn> it's the worst of all
[04:49] <empop> why?
[04:49] <Keybuk> lucas_: a group of people might want to produce a derivative of Ubuntu with KDE instead of GNOME ... if they're willing to follow the Ubuntu code of conduct, etc. there's no reason not to bless them as an official derivative
[04:49] <bdr> lucas: couldn't you just scipt the building of different isos? depending on region/morals etc
[04:50] <Telep> sabdfl: it should definately be replaced.
[04:50] <sabdfl> i'm convinced from the mailing list and forum discussion that we can't ship it as the default
[04:50] <Telep> ok
[04:50] <jmchugh> agreed
[04:50] <JanneM> mm
[04:50] <yfir> agree
[04:50] <crabbox> gnome splash is same as other artwork. change the people non defautl and same goes for the gdm
[04:50] <bdr> yes
[04:50] <ogra_> sad but yes
[04:50] <opi^work> sabdfl: maybe Ubuntu/Gnome logo instead?
[04:50] <BenNovack> The splash is the worst of them all
[04:50] <sabdfl> crabbox: one at a time please
[04:50] <uman> it all boils down to what goals you have, do you want to make a global distribution or not
[04:50] <flubie> crabbox: agreed
[04:50] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: What do you use instead?
[04:50] <xcasex> uman it's not black and white.
[04:50] <uman> do you want to split it up into regional a distributions or not
[04:50] <nosilver4u> that was quite difficult to change, and most non tech-savvy people would have been stuck with a splash they didn't appreciate
[04:50] <Telep> someone suggested a picture of the Earth bathing in sunlight - sounds nice to me :)
[04:50] <yfir> two suggestions: 1) make it non-default, 2) develop a gui way to easily change the splash screen
[04:50] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: The old one?
[04:50] <Jon_of_the_Wired> down that road lies infinite complexity
[04:51] <uman> xcasex: to an extent it is
[04:51] <nosilver4u> i would be all for an easier way to change the splash
[04:51] <jmchugh> yfir: that would be ideal
[04:51] <C2H5OH> is there any successful story about upgrading from sid to ubuntu ?
[04:51] <nosilver4u> so i'm with yfir
[04:51] <opi^work> maybe we should have groups working on something similar to translations teams? ubuntu-pl-artwork.deb, ubuntu-jp-artwork.deb
[04:51] <sabdfl> we will produce a new gnomesplash to be the default
[04:51] <jdub> sabdfl: if we switch the splash back to the ubuntu logo, i don't think it's worth bothering shipping alternative splashes, until perhaps hoary (when it might be part of the gnome metatheme).
[04:51] <uman> I liked the artwork very much, but I'll defent the right of someone from a different cultural background not having it as a default
[04:51] <bdr> yfir:seconded and 2) is very easy
[04:51] <whiprush> adding a tool to change the splash isn't a solution, I shouldn't have to change it.
[04:51] <pitti> C2H5OH: I doubt that this works
[04:51] <lucas_> Keybuk: but it means you will have to do support work for them. Anyway it is OT, so dont reply =)
[04:51] <Keybuk> sabdfl: what about /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/ubuntu-logo-508x340.png ?
[04:52] <xcasex> uman, so if we're going down the cultural sensitivity path, we need to factor in all the other aspects.
[04:52] <sabdfl> Keybuk: perhaps, with tweaks
[04:52] <jimi> i would like to see the earth, too =)
[04:52] <sabdfl> i'm not looking for creative suggestions as to what we might ship
[04:52] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: Can we have a look before you put it in our desktop?
[04:52] <kfischer_> Sorry, sabdfl, I think the right step would be to include it in general in the original distribution and create the derivates you mentioned
[04:52] <jimi> ok
[04:52] <yfir> ship it as non default then. eeryone is happy that way
[04:52] <bdr> whiprush: no, but many will want to, whatever the GNOME ideal of non-configurability says
[04:52] <tof__> hi all
[04:52] <uman> I wished that the naked human form wouldn't offend so many people
[04:52] <nosilver4u> whiprush: that's just a suggestion to make it a better distro, the first step was to change the bootsplash
[04:52] <sabdfl> z4k4ri4: we can send a notice of the package updates to the list, but there will not be time to change it again before release
[04:52] <uman> it's what we all are
[04:52] <xcasex> they arent *that* naked
[04:53] <yfir> uman: so do i but it does unfortunately
[04:53] <BenNovack> They're very naked
[04:53] <Telep> naked enough
[04:53] <opi^work> uman: me too, but what we going to do? :)
[04:53] <xcasex> and if that amount of nudity offends people
[04:53] <crabbox> drawn aboriginal pictures from different countries
[04:53] <tof__> anyone know how i can configure xprint to print from firefox ?
[04:53] <xcasex> they need to get out more.
[04:53] <BenNovack> There are a *lot* of people who are offended by that level of nudity - in the wallpaper, it really looks to a lot of poeple like there's about to be a threesome.
[04:53] <sabdfl> tof__: we're in an artwork discussion, should be done inn about 30 minutes
[04:53] <bdr> if someone tried to go to work in an office dressed like that, I doubt they'd have a job very long
[04:53] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: I mean it is better to have community to look at it to avoid further controversy
[04:53] <uman> you could do them like the lil symobls on the toilets
[04:53] <uman> just symbolized humans
[04:54] <uman> I'll keep the real ones as wallpaper, though
[04:54] <xcasex> sladen it is
[04:54] <Keybuk> sladen: hasn't got us any yet, has it?
[04:54] <pitti> sladen: first impression
[04:54] <tof__> sabdfl, ok thx and sorry ;)
[04:54] <ogra_> slan: sadly yes
[04:54] <uman> all you have to decide is if you want to go for the lowest common denominator, or not
[04:54] <sabdfl> tof__: no worries
[04:54] <thisfred> symbolized humans aren't acceptable to some muslims either
[04:54] <bdr> as long as they spell ubuntu right
[04:54] <C2H5OH> pitti: I was curious about it, I'm gogin to test the liveCD before I install
[04:54] <nosilver4u> thisfred: you serious?
[04:54] <Telep> uman: whatever you think about how nudity _should_ be treated, you can't just ignore 
[04:54] <thisfred> yes
[04:55] <pitti> C2H5OH: upgrade from woody or reinstall from scratch
[04:55] <yfir> sladen: makes sense though - if Ubuntu bills itself as the 'accessible, humanized' linux, then this is a perfectly expected issue to face 
[04:55] <sabdfl> ok, so on the gnomesplash, should we include this image as an option on the cd?
[04:55] <JanneM> uman: on this, lowest common denominator is probably reasonable
[04:55] <crabbox> yes
[04:55] <whiprush> yes
[04:55] <JanneM> yes
[04:55] <empop> yes
[04:55] <opi^work> hope the Planet wouldn't offend anyone, some people thinks that earth is flat
[04:55] <kfischer_> no
[04:55] <C2H5OH> pitti:  I have sid now, fortunately my /home is in a different partition
[04:55] <bdr> "some" muslims? What fraction are we talking about?
[04:55] <thisfred> I think the quran forbids it, but there are differneces in interpretation
[04:55] <yfir> yes
[04:55] <mirak_-> this argument/discussion has gone on for way to long to not just say "we will leave it out, but it is available here"
[04:55] <ogra_> sabdfl: yes 
[04:55] <BenNovack> yes, but it CANNOT be the default
[04:55] <Telep> uman: ... the fact that imagery like that has lot's of sexual meaning even in liberal, western societies
[04:55] <bdr> yes
[04:55] <theantix> sabdfl: I'm not clear as to how that would work?  as a install option?
[04:55] <nosilver4u> mirak: agreed
[04:55] <sabdfl> kfischer_: why no? you're the only voice against including it as an option
[04:55] <jdub> i don't think it's worth bothering shipping secondary splash images, until perhaps hoary (when it might be part of the gnome metatheme).
[04:55] <sabdfl> ?
[04:55] <uman> option, yes
[04:56] <z4k4ri4> thisfred: It is not forbid in quran but in sunnah or the interpretation of sunnah
[04:56] <empop> could it be linked to the monthly calendar?
[04:56] <sabdfl> theantix: you would need to install it yourself, using the same process you can currently use to remove it
[04:56] <thisfred> ty z4k4ri4
[04:56] <thisfred> I'm not an expert
[04:56] <theantix> sabdfl: okay, that would be fine
[04:56] <Keybuk> sabdfl: I tend to agree with jdub here ... there's little reason to ship more than one splash screen as they're a bugger to change
[04:56] <sect2k> why would the splashscreen/loginscreen issue be any different than wallpaper issuse
[04:56] <sabdfl> sect2k: more difficult to change
[04:56] <nosilver4u> yeah, unless you do the whole gui splashscreen changer
[04:56] <bdr> sorry to repeat myself, but use gteakui and it's much easier
[04:57] <nosilver4u> (besides gconf)
[04:57] <mirak_-> isnt that already available in gnome?
[04:57] <Keybuk> (though, likewise, I guess there's little reason not to ship more than one *shrug*)
[04:57] <jdub> there's no cost in having it on disk
[04:57] <sabdfl> Keybuk: it could also be automatically installed when you install the calendar desktop
[04:57] <jdub> but it's not as if it's a feature
[04:57] <z4k4ri4> May be complete background theme that change gdm, splash screen and wallpaper
[04:57] <yfir> point is, those tools aren't easily findable by a beginning linux user
[04:57] <sect2k> sabdfl1: but the resolution should be the same, default no, as choice ok, no?
[04:57] <nosilver4u> no, but it's pointless to work on alternatives if few people will use them
[04:58] <jdub> sabdfl: that's doable, but additional complexity, and requires the user to reconfigure the splash manually to choose the 'calendar' version
[04:58] <sabdfl> sect2k: possibly, i'm just checking on the issue, people may feel differently about different images
[04:58] <uman> in the end, you should be able to chose your own "theme" from some webpage, but the default shoule be as least offencive as possivle
[04:58] <uman> possible
[04:58] <sabdfl> jdub: gconftool call on calendar artwork postinst, surely?
[04:58] <sect2k> sabdf1: i agree, but in my opinion, wallpaper is less contraversial than login/splash
[04:58] <BenNovack> Okay, I'm confident I'll be content with the conclusion, based on what I'm hearing... gotta do some homework.
[04:58] <Keybuk> sabdfl: would change it for everyone, not just those that select the calendar theme
[04:58] <ogra_> sabdfl: i'm very sad it has to go, but apparantly it has
[04:58] <jdub> sabdfl: that means changing the default for all users when installing that package. not good.
[04:59] <guptan> Hi Room
[04:59] <sabdfl> Keybuk: common case is one user per machine
[04:59] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: When the meeting will be finish
[04:59] <mirak_-> never
[04:59] <sabdfl> z4k4ri4: about another 25 minutes i think
[04:59] <littlepaul> ;-(
[04:59] <Telep> I doubt the meeting will be ever in Finnish ;)
[05:00] <sabdfl> Telep: unlikely to be as much of a debate, certainly :-)
[05:00] <Telep> (aaargh, I'm so funny today)
[05:00] <jdub> sabdfl: that may be the common case, but it's very un-golden-rule to change everyone's default when installing a package
[05:00] <JanneM> well, some of us could manage :)
[05:00] <bdr> sabdfl: Not necessarily. I would imagine many have one main plus several occaisional users (wife/kids/gf)
[05:00] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: Have you decide yet?
[05:00] <Telep> yes, not everyone lives in a basement :)
[05:01] <sabdfl> you mean your wife might like it but gf disapproves?
[05:01] <Telep> believe it or not :)
[05:01] <JanneM> bdr: but in that case, it is also reasonable for them to do an estimation on whether it sould be acceptabel
[05:01] <Telep> sabdfl: :D
[05:01] <sabdfl> z4k4ri4: no, not yet
[05:01] <ogra_> sabdfl: lol
[05:01] <JanneM> they are not unknown people
[05:01] <sabdfl> ok, let's move on
[05:01] <sabdfl> the calendar desktop wallpapers
[05:01] <z4k4ri4> Will you decide when the meeting over? or we should wait more?
[05:01] <JanneM> option, but _please_ keep the calendar idea
[05:01] <jdub> setting a gconf default on unrelated pacakge install is something we should avoid in general
[05:01] <whiprush> agree with JanneM 
[05:01] <sabdfl> first let me apologise for the fact that these suddenly became default for people who had looked at the backgrounds during preview
[05:01] <crabbox> keep the calender idea
[05:02] <dyn> sabdfl: can the calendar pics somewhere checked online? i haven't seen them (and am currently on gentoo)
[05:02] <bdr> I get in trouble for moving icons on my gf's desktop, for god's sake.
[05:02] <z4k4ri4> What about not one calendar but multiple calendar
[05:02] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: probably a good deal of work
[05:02] <opi^work> I don't know what calendar is (running Ubuntu/custom;-) so I remain quiet :)
[05:02] <bdr> agreed, it's a nice idea
[05:02] <theantix> current situation (installed but not selected by default) is fine with me -- if it is too risque for your org you won't choose it
[05:02] <Telep> I think the calendar idea is cool, but don't undestand why the calendar pics should depict naked people :/
[05:02] <JanneM> opi^work: cutomagically changing backgrounds every month
[05:02] <ogra_> opi^work: monthly changing background
[05:03] <yfir> callendar is great, but again not as default
[05:03] <opi^work> It won't work with XFce4, so I can not decite :)
[05:03] <sladen> Telep: what would be your opinion on naked animals?
[05:03] <Telep> sladen: is that a serious question? :)
[05:03] <sabdfl> ok, we have been working on splitting out the calendar as a separate artwork package
[05:03] <yfir> shaved animals are a no no!
[05:03] <sabdfl> if this is removed, then the calendar desktops are not available at all
[05:03] <Telep> :D
[05:04] <kfischer_> I vote for: include them
[05:04] <ogra_> sabdfl: but the possibility stays ?
[05:04] <sabdfl> the calendar will not be the default desktop
[05:04] <crabbox> include them
[05:04] <yfir> i vote: include
[05:04] <sabdfl> but should the calendar be installed and available by default?
[05:04] <JanneM> include
[05:04] <empop> that sounds fine (though i like it better as default)
[05:04] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: I agree with that
[05:04] <ogra_> inc !
[05:04] <jdub> no
[05:04] <kfischer_> yes
[05:04] <opi^work> yes
[05:04] <Telep> sabdfl: include them, but don't install them by default
[05:04] <yfir> available yes
[05:04] <whiprush> no
[05:04] <perdix> no
[05:04] <lamont> ship, not installed
[05:05] <jsc> yes
[05:05] <ari_> Maybe any pictures of humans (or other problematic pictures) should be made available in such way that you can never get them on your screen accidentally (for example when when just browsing around your fresh system, trying to get familiar with it)
[05:05] <Nonphasis> ship, not default
[05:05] <morgs> ship, not installed
[05:05] <yfir> but not "used" as background. (if that's what you mean by installed)
[05:05] <theantix> ship, not installed
[05:05] <flubie> include, not default
[05:05] <opi^work> why not installed but not used as default?
[05:05] <crabbox> yes
[05:05] <Telep> no
[05:05] <sabdfl> yfir: it will not show up unless you select it in the list
[05:05] <lamont> yfir: on the cd, not on the hard drive  == ship, not installed
[05:05] <sect2k> it should be installed and avaliable by default, but not selected as default
[05:05] <yfir> yes, agree then. ship, not installed
[05:06] <bdr> maybe some start up (first time login) dialog? Which theme, calendar yes/no etc?
[05:06] <Nonphasis> cd? forget the cd, ppl discard it anyway
[05:06] <jimi> yeah
[05:06] <jdub> bdr: we'd like to avoid that kind of thing (installer, startup thingy) as much as possible
[05:06] <bdr> Nonphasis:not if you have dialup
[05:06] <jimi> +1 for "first boot wizard"
[05:06] <bdr> jdub:ok
[05:06] <lamont> Nonphasis: I don't care if the .deb gets copied into /var/cache/apt/archives
[05:06] <Telep> I think even having it available in the list of wallpapers will be a problem to some - as sabdfl said.
[05:06] <sabdfl> lamont: i'm not sure that it does
[05:07] <yfir> well, good luck with this everyone. got to go.
[05:07] <crabbox> cheers yfir
[05:07] <kfischer_> Having it available may cause problems? I seriously doubt that...
[05:07] <Nonphasis> hard drive space is cheap, so of course it should be available
[05:07] <z4k4ri4> It should be available but not installed as default
[05:07] <opi^work> Ok, im happy with conslusions
[05:08] <opi^work> time to leave office
[05:08] <bdr> it's like 20 pixels across in the background list - surely not a problem?
[05:08] <opi^work> thanks for Ubuntu :)
[05:08] <maswan> lamont: the issue is that getting caught in customs with pics of people without "sufficient" cloathing can be a real issue for some countries. for local values for "sufficient". :/
[05:08] <Telep> kfischer_: well if someone objects to that kind of images, they won't like it if they accidentally click on the image in the list - and that's not esp. difficult to do.
[05:08] <sabdfl> opi^work: no conclusions yet
[05:08] <Kamion> lamont: we're not doing that with Ship for warty, will do for hoary
[05:08] <opi^work> sabdfl: but I see where it's heading
[05:08] <flubie> opi^work: what conclusions?
[05:08] <Kamion> lamont: (because we needed to create an apt archive for Ship, and that was delicate ...)
[05:08] <opi^work> sabdfl: will there be any summary posted to ML?
[05:09] <sabdfl> opi^work: yes, i'll follow up to previous mail
[05:09] <opi^work> flubie: I think most of us agree that controversial stuff should be keeped, yet, not installed as default :)
[05:09] <opi^work> sabdfl: thank you
[05:09] <z4k4ri4> For once I agree with opi^work
[05:09] <sparkes> opi^work, that's good should please more than it upsets
[05:09] <opi^work> ;->
[05:09] <sabdfl> opi^work: sure
[05:10] <sabdfl> last, let's look at the login screen
[05:10] <sabdfl> same questions
[05:10] <ogra_> keep it keep it keep it
[05:10] <kfischer_> I second that
[05:10] <whiprush> ship, not as default.
[05:10] <SepheeBear> login screeen is awesome
[05:10] <empop> again, i like the concept
[05:10] <z4k4ri4> ship not installed
[05:10] <ogra_> keep it as defaul t
[05:10] <crabbox> ship, no default
[05:10] <empop> keep
[05:10] <theantix> ship, not as default
[05:11] <TheMuso> Ship, no default.
[05:11] <perdix> ship, don't make it default
[05:11] <Nonphasis> install, not default
[05:11] <sect2k> have it as an option, but not as default
[05:11] <bdr> I wouldn't use it, was the first thing I changed. a bit goofy looking
[05:11] <chadkiser> not as default but shipped
[05:11] <JanneM> people have less problems with it, but still enough do that it may not be acceptable as default
[05:11] <faaip> install, not default
[05:11] <lkx> ship, not default
[05:11] <vrln> the old non-photograph login screen was perfect
[05:11] <sanitario> ship, not default
[05:11] <jdub> installed, not default
[05:11] <flubie> ship, not default
[05:11] <johnlevin> not default
[05:11] <vrln> ship, not default
[05:11] <SepheeBear> default
[05:11] <seb128> not the default
[05:11] <JanneM> installed
[05:11] <bdr> agreed, ship not default is fine
[05:11] <sanitario> installed, not default
[05:11] <sabdfl> ok, so broad consensus against it as the default, but no on installation
[05:11] <Jon_of_the_Wired> and please give us the old one back.  Happy Gnome is much to blue for ubuntu.
[05:12] <z4k4ri4> yes
[05:12] <whiprush> yes
[05:12] <jsc> yes
[05:12] <lkx> yes :)
[05:12] <TheMuso> yes
[05:12] <crabbox> yes
[05:12] <thully> I liked the old one
[05:12] <perdix> jo
[05:12] <bdr> yes
[05:12] <jmchugh> yes
[05:12] <flubie> me too
[05:12] <sabdfl> that's enough consensus people, it's startling
[05:12] <kfischer_> no
[05:12] <z4k4ri4> They should be one package with the rest of "controversial pictures"
[05:12] <sabdfl> thanks
[05:12] <ogra_> no
[05:12] <jsc> eheheh
[05:12] <whiprush> heh
[05:12] <lkx> we need more of the same votes ;)
[05:12] <whiprush> we're on a roll
[05:12] <sabdfl> ok, last item in the wiki agenda
[05:13] <JanneM> cow?
[05:13] <Henrik> Not default this time, but bring back a new login for the next release where the people have slightly more clothes
[05:13] <asw> my 2cents: the wrong image found on a person's hard-drive could mean they lose their job or worse.  I think "Ship not installed" is a reasonable comprimise for all artwork in the distribution that could be culturally offensive. (And what isn't offensive in some culture or other?)
[05:13] <sabdfl> OTHER than artwork, is there anything else that we need to look at for cultural analysis in the RC?
[05:13] <z4k4ri4> It there bouncing cow in ubuntu? :)
[05:13] <JanneM> z4k4ri4: yep!
[05:13] <daniels> z4k4ri4: yes, it's distributed with xscreensaver
[05:13] <ogra_> sabdfl: taiwanese flags ?
[05:13] <daniels> sabdfl: just the typical nation/region/province issues, plus language
[05:13] <empop> PLEASE keep the cow! it cracks my gf up!
[05:13] <Nonphasis> Henrik, I object to having realistic photos of people, clothes or no
[05:13] <z4k4ri4> daniels: which one?
[05:13] <jdub> sabdfl: we should remove all flags, and avoid things like the bouncing cow and 'flaccid penis' in the screensavers. 'common sense' approach, basically.
[05:13] <Kamion> I *think* we've got most of the obvious geopolitical stuff in the installer sorted, but I still have a bug open about it just in case
[05:13] <sabdfl> i don't know, are there flags?
[05:13] <whiprush> the flag thing gnome dealt with last year iirc, so those are gone.
[05:14] <crabbox> if wanted we can go really deep like the colours but lets not do it
[05:14] <sabdfl> flaccid penis? yuck. where?
[05:14] <jdub> in glsnake
[05:14] <kfischer_> Well, as of now, there ins't much in translations, now is there?
[05:14] <jdub> it's one of the models
[05:14] <Kamion> do we have any maps which show country boundaries?
[05:14] <whiprush> heh, glsnake
[05:14] <jdub> you can blame spiv for that :)
[05:14] <sabdfl> jeff, no idea you made it into the artwork in person
[05:14] <spiv> jdub: The glsnake labels should be turned off by default, if it's not alrady...
[05:14] <thom> jdub: no mention of it, i turned off the glsnake labels
[05:14] <jdub> spiv: :-)
[05:14] <jdub> thom: rock
[05:14] <spiv> jdub: I didn't make, or add, that model :P
[05:14] <Kamion> if so (maps with boundaries), we'll need to be careful about regions like Kashmir
[05:14] <jdub> (we are smarter than novell)
[05:14] <whiprush> RH/Fedora has anti phallic patches for xscreensaver iirc.
[05:15] <guptan> how can I play wma files in rhythmbox?
[05:15] <jdub> (very high ranking VP in utah found that on his screen one day and caused a bit of havoc)
[05:15] <kfischer_> whiprush, this is ridiculus. Do they really?
[05:15] <JanneM> is anybody actually offended by the cow, though? It's silly, but it doesn't depict a cow being hurt or anything
[05:15] <ogra_> sabdfl: i dig through the flags....let you know
[05:15] <whiprush> yeah
[05:15] <Nonphasis> ah, one of the screensavers has a picture of Mescaline molecule
[05:15] <z4k4ri4> guptan: later we have a meeting now
[05:15] <TheMuso> guptan: The meeting still goes on.
[05:15] <whiprush> yeah the chemistry one might be questionable.
[05:15] <ogra_> Jeanne: it's holy in some religions
[05:15] <sabdfl> guptan: about another 10 minutes
[05:15] <whiprush> the one that shows PCP and hemp molecules and whatnot
[05:15] <JanneM> ogra_: yes - but they don't forbid depictions
[05:16] <ogra_> JanneM: ask z4k, he'll know
[05:16] <Keybuk> that's kinda annoying, because the more psychotropic the chemical the more interesting the molecule, generally :-(
[05:16] <JanneM> whiprush: the chemistry saver is really fairly inoffensive, though. You have to know what the compounds are to be upset
[05:16] <sect2k> so what's wrong with molecules, heck i even found it educational
[05:16] <jdub> JanneM: bouncing a sacred animal is a bit over the top, though.
[05:16] <whiprush> yeah I'm just pointing it out.
[05:16] <Telep> yes that indeed is another issue - having the "random" screensaver on by default is probably not a good idea
[05:16] <sabdfl> i don't think displaying the chemistry will induce the addiction, nor provide the crack
[05:17] <whiprush> since someone asked, heh.
[05:17] <JanneM> and just showing the molecule doesn't feel very upsetting
[05:17] <z4k4ri4> I agre with that
[05:17] <theantix> I think so long as they aren't selected by default, it's not too important to hide bouncing cows, chemicals, etc
[05:17] <jdub> Telep: we have a whitelist
[05:17] <sabdfl> ok
[05:17] <crabbox> lets stop with the screensavers or soon we got nothing left...
[05:17] <Jon_of_the_Wired> screensavers in general are pretty dumb.  Just suspend the monitor.  Who wants to waste power showing a senseless image when no one's around to watch.
[05:17] <Kamion> theantix: bouncing cow's one of the things shown by default
[05:17] <sabdfl> so far i have the following to think about, other than artwork: bouncing cow, flaccid penis, hallucinogenics. anything else? what a day at the office
[05:18] <whiprush> heh
[05:18] <Nonphasis> was the gnome splash screen discussed already?
[05:18] <bdr> Jon_of_the_Wired:a large fraction of computer users
[05:18] <JanneM> Jon_of_the_Wired: I love sitting and staring at a dumb screensaver as a way to focus when I try to think
[05:18] <thom> sabdfl: you can clear your mind of flaccid penises, we've fixed that ;-P
[05:18] <jdub> Nonphasis: yes
[05:18] <Nonphasis> jdub, ok
[05:18] <rshortland> There is a simple answer
[05:18] <SepheeBear> arent the bouncing cows in other distros?
[05:18] <Jon_of_the_Wired> I stand corrected... oy
[05:18] <whiprush> the bouncing cow rocks, but if it offends people then just ditch it. There's a million other savers in the package
[05:18] <amin2> tucows is a cow too
[05:18] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: Will you have conclusion at the end of the meeting?
[05:18] <JanneM> again, just don't make them active by default
[05:19] <ogra_> amin2: two of them ;)
[05:19] <rshortland> just let everyone use windows
[05:19] <crabbox> JanneM: correct
[05:19] <sladen> sabdfl: xsaver formulae of LSD, Alochol
[05:19] <sabdfl> z4k4ri4: no, it will require some thought, and i'll send an email to -users
[05:19] <JanneM> sladen: no formula, just their shapes
[05:19] <perdix> rshortland: we are about humanity, your suggestion is cruel
[05:19] <cardador> lol
[05:19] <z4k4ri4> sabdfl: hopefully doesn't differ too much from the consensus here
[05:20] <sect2k> sabdfl: might be nice to update the wiki with conclusions
[05:20] <JanneM> amazing - a whole meeting and not a simgle flame
[05:20] <crabbox> great
[05:20] <theantix> JanneM: indeed!
[05:20] <JanneM> this _is_ a nice community
[05:20] <guptan> where can I find the wishlist for ubuntu :)
[05:20] <TheMuso> JanneM: Thats a good thing IMO
[05:20] <ogra_> JanneM: ubuntu !
[05:20] <jimi> hehh
[05:20] <bdr> "as friendly as a gentoo forum"
[05:20] <sabdfl> bdr: we can only dream
[05:21] <sabdfl> thanks everybody
[05:21] <whiprush> woo.
[05:21] <jsc> welcome
[05:21] <z4k4ri4> It is over now?
[05:21] <crabbox> cheers sabdfl
[05:21] <ogra_> sabdfl: tanhkyoutoo
[05:21] <thully> so, will we get the reverted default desktop with an apt-get dist-upgrade
[05:21] <sabdfl> i think we can let the guys in need of support get their fix here now
[05:21] <jdub> ooh! ooh! ooh! ubuntu!
[05:21] <jdub> ooh! ooh! ooh! ubuntu!
[05:21] <rshortland> but it suits the general lack of mautriry that has been shown recently by the community
[05:21] <theantix> thanks for getting input and having patience sabdfl 
[05:21] <jsc> i really like ubuntu .... one of the best i think
[05:21] <bdr> now everyone go find bugs to report...
[05:21] <sabdfl> we're done
[05:22] <z4k4ri4> OK, thank you for listening
[05:22] <theantix> I still can't believe I set my alarm for an IRC meeting :-P
[05:22] <crabbox> see ya all later and have a nice morning/day/evening
[05:22] <JanneM> good night
[05:22] <kfischer_> I do hope you will consider the regional-derivate thing a lot
[05:23] <ogra_> thenaix: i can't belive i made it through our firewall *g*
[05:23] <bdr> must find food
[05:23] <regex_racoon> Where will the transcript of this go?
[05:23] <sabdfl> thom, Keybuk, thanks for the ops support
[05:24] <sabdfl> regex_racoon: i'll ask mako to put it with the community council transcripts
[05:24] <lIoNhEaRt> I'm having problems with apache2 doing php [like its not]  why is this not easy to setup in ubuntu?
[05:24] <regex_racoon> Thanks very much.
[05:24] <guptan> sabdfl: thank you for showing ubuntu to this world :)
[05:24] <lIoNhEaRt> Has anyone else had problems?
[05:25] <TheMuso> guptan: It is not only sabdfl who is showing it. :)
[05:25] <amin2> so, the meeting is over ?
[05:25] <daniels> jdub: the thought of you with pom poms going GIVE ME AN OOOH! is troubling.
[05:25] <bob2_> lIoNhEaRt: is it segfaulting?
[05:25] <ogra_> sabdfl: it was a beautiful idea....very sad
[05:25] <bob2_> amin2: yes
[05:25] <guptan> TheMuso: I wud like to thank you all
[05:25] <guptan> btw you guys finished?
[05:25] <sabdfl> ogra_: it will remain available, i've just got to settle the defaults
[05:26] <thully> so, the release still set for wednesday?
[05:26] <TheMuso> Well, I'd better go and get some sleep.
[05:26] <ogra_> sabdfl: i know....but default was better.....i was shocked by the community, it just started to fly
[05:26] <lIoNhEaRt> No, not segfaulting, just the php is tryng to download as a file...
[05:26] <TheMuso> Got some accessibility stuff to write up tomorrow. :)
[05:26] <bob2_> lIoNhEaRt: are you using apache2?
[05:27] <kfischer_> sabdfl, I think it was the right step. And I am somewhat sad that it had to come this far.
[05:27] <lIoNhEaRt> yes - apache2
[05:27] <lIoNhEaRt> that appears default for ubuntu.
[05:27] <ogra_> kfischer_: seems that germany is REALLY liberal here :)
[05:27] <bob2_> lIoNhEaRt: did you install the right package then?
[05:27] <Kamion> thully: yep
[05:27] <bob2_> lIoNhEaRt: libapache2-mod-php4.
[05:27] <lIoNhEaRt> Yes
[05:28] <amin2> Can I edit /var/lib/dpkg  or /var/lib/aptitude and then do the aptitude install ~tubuntu desktop ???
[05:28] <ogra_> kfischer_: which impressed me.....
[05:28] <guptan> is there any plans to have bootsplash for coming ubuntu release, I love the bootsplash used in Live CD
[05:28] <ogra_> kfischer_: ...as a german
[05:28] <bob2_> guptan: no, there's a better solution in the works for hoary
[05:28] <TheMuso> guptan: I think I remember seeing a post about bootsplash causing problems, so they have something better planned for Hoary
[05:30] <lIoNhEaRt> I then symlinked php4.load and php4.conf into mods-enabled
[05:31] <bob2_> lIoNhEaRt: it enables it by default
[05:32] <lIoNhEaRt> OK, with or without the symlinks I get it trying to download the php files rather than interpret them :-(
[05:33] <mirak_-> is the meeting over???
[05:33] <bob2_> mirak_-: yes
[05:33] <kfischer_> Well, see you around. And to cite a more or less unknown song: "get naked" :)
[05:33] <mirak_-> what was the final decision?????
[05:33] <bob2_> mirak_-: mark will be posting to the list
[05:33] <ogra_> bye all ;)
[05:34] <mirak_-> bob2_, on the wiki???
[05:34] <bob2_> mirak_-: list.
[05:34] <discus> anyone know how i can configure xprint to print from firefox ?
[05:36] <amin2> Err http://archive.ubuntu.com warty/main ubuntu-base 0.3
[05:36] <amin2>   Could not connect to archive.ubuntu.com:80 (82.211.81.138), connection timed out
[05:36] <amin2> Failed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubuntu-meta/ubuntu-base_0.3_i386.deb  Could not connect to archive.ubuntu.com:80 (82.211.81.138), connection timed out
[05:36] <amin2> E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?
[05:37] <amin2> hi i just "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade and above is the err msg
[05:37] <JanneM> amin2: try again in a few minutes. Normally that's just some temporary connection problem
[05:37] <bob2_> seem to be some routing troubles down .au-way
[05:37] <Telep> I probably shouldn't say it here, but I'm considering switching back to Gentoo for a while, perhaps until Hoary.
[05:38] <lucas_> where can I find some info about building ubuntu derivates ?
[05:38] <Riddell> lucas_: I don't think there is any info yet, it's still in development
[05:38] <lucas_> ok
[05:39] <Riddell> lucas_: what do you want to derive?
[05:39] <Nonphasis> lucas_, why don't you just put a bunch of debs to apt sources?
[05:39] <amin2> how could i customized the bootup process ? 
[05:39] <lucas_> for a lot of good reasons ;-)
[05:39] <bob2_> amin2: to do what?
[05:40] <amin2> such as: don't want to synchronize the clock to pool ?
[05:40] <Nonphasis> amin2, edit the init scripts?
[05:41] <amin2> edit or delete?
[05:41] <bob2_> amin2: use update-rc.d to remove ntpdate from the startup sequence
[05:41] <Keybuk> amin2: /etc/rcS.d and /etc/rc2.d are the scripts run during boot, in numerical order
[05:41] <Nonphasis> amin2, chmod -x works at least
[05:41] <bob2_> Nonphasis: no, you don't need to edit anything
[05:41] <Nonphasis> bob2_, well, I meant "edit" in the wider sense of the word
[05:41] <lucas_> Nonphasis,Riddell: target is users who don't have internet access ; I'd like to backport a debian change to D-I so users can resize FAT32/NTFS partitions during install
[05:42] <Nonphasis> lucas_, ok
[05:42] <Kamion> lucas_: we'll be pulling that in directly after Warty
[05:42] <amin2> in suse, it has yast where you can check / uncheck. Is there any util in ubuntu ?
[05:42] <Nonphasis> warty is out on wednesday, right?
[05:42] <Kamion> lucas_: by the time we really have good tools for building derivatives available, that change will be available too :)
[05:43] <Kamion> Nonphasis: right
[05:43] <Nonphasis> cool
[05:43] <lucas_> ah, it has been postoned ?
[05:43] <Rocha> When will the final version of Ubuntu be released?
[05:43] <lucas_> I was going to ask if the artwork stuff would postpone the release
[05:43] <Kamion> lucas_: the change from 13th to 20th was a while back
[05:43] <bob2_> Rocha: 01:42 < Nonphasis> warty is out on wednesday, right?
[05:43] <Kamion> lucas_: no, the artwork stuff has not postponed the release
[05:44] <Rocha> bob2_, thanks
[05:44] <lucas_> oh ok, didn't see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/WartyWarthog_2fReleaseSchedule was changed
[05:44] <Rocha> bob2_, I wasn't paying attention to the channel
[05:46] <amin2> is there any doc book for ubuntu where i can tweak the system ?
[05:47] <lucas_> amin2: if you can't find doc about ubuntu, look for doc about debian
[05:48] <amin2> what is the diff between apt-get dist-upgrade and apt-get upgrade ?
[05:49] <lupus> dist-upgrade 
[05:49] <whiprush> dist-upgrade will completely resolve your dependencies, for better or worse.
[05:49] <lupus> will add packages
[05:49] <jdub> dist-upgrade does some extra resolution which may change other package state
[05:49] <Nonphasis> amin2, dist-upgrade gets you more stuff, and hoses your system w/ highir propability ;)
[05:50] <Keybuk> upgrade might not upgrade things because it's scared
[05:50] <Keybuk> dist-upgrade will remove things because it's brave
[05:50] <Keybuk> :)
[05:50] <Keybuk> roughly, if an new version of a package introduces a conflict on another package, their behaviour differs
[05:51] <Keybuk> upgrade will simply not upgrade the package, and leave your system in the original state
[05:51] <Keybuk> dist-upgrade will remove the conflicting package and continue the upgrade (in the hope of being able to put it back later, I think)
[05:51] <whiprush> I don't like how synaptic labels it "smart upgrade"
[05:52] <mvo_> whiprush: why not? 
[05:53] <whiprush> because it's not very smart
[05:54] <jovian_> hi quick question I tried to start rythmbox and it said it couldn't find a mp3 decoder which lib do I need?
[05:54] <whiprush> "well I see this obscure perl lib is off, let me remove evolution!"
[05:54] <mvo_> whiprush: it tries to be :) honest, what different wording would you suggest?
[05:54] <jovian_> im going through and it show mpeglib is installed
[05:54] <whiprush> oh I dunno.
[05:54] <whiprush> I never offer solutions, just problems. Heh.
[05:54] <Kamion> whiprush: as I remember, the evolution removal a couple of weeks back was in fact due to the evolution and evolution-data-server packages getting out of sync and becoming uninstallable
[05:55] <whiprush> I never dist-upgrade so it just sat held for a bit.
[05:55] <Kamion> (can't remember why it didn't just hold the whole lot back; I think there was some other factor as well)
[05:56] <whiprush> although I expect that won't be a problem for warty final.
[05:56] <whiprush> everyone always recommends dist-upgrade and then people running sid who don't know any better end up with something busted.
[05:57] <mvo_> whiprush: I think you should always look at the summary window before you apply the changes in synaptic. there is a column: "to be deleted" that should help here :)
[05:57] <Kamion> whiprush: I tend to recommend dist-upgrade (or something similar) plus paying attention
[05:57] <Rocha> Do you have any ideia why ubuntu may not find a cdrom?
[05:57] <Keybuk> Kamion: panel depended on the later e-d-s
[05:58] <Keybuk> is usually enough to push it
[05:58] <Kamion> Keybuk: ah yes, that was it
[05:59] <amin2> in cmd: aptitue install ~tubuntu desktop, what is ~tubuntu mean?
[05:59] <Keybuk> amin2: the command is ~tubuntu-desktop, the ~t means "task"
[05:59] <whiprush> mvo_ / Kamion: heh, you don't have to tell me, I mean new users.
[05:59] <solsTiCe> Rocha: a bug ?
[05:59] <nosilver4u> jovian_:it's not possible to play mp3s in rythmbox if you recently did a fresh install
[05:59] <whiprush> "well I read on slashdot to dist-upgrade .. whoops! My system broke lol."
[06:00] <mvo_> :)
[06:00] <nosilver4u> believe me, i've tried everything that's been suggested, here, and by my linux-genius boss, and nothing works
[06:00] <nosilver4u> had to revert to xmms
[06:00] <jovian_> really whynot?
[06:01] <Keybuk> whiprush: generally speaking, new/novice users will only dist-upgrade between releases.  It tends to be fine then, because the end result of each works
[06:01] <nosilver4u> probably some config file that needs to be edited,  but i don't know where to look
[06:01] <Keybuk> you dist-upgraded at a point where the archive was actually broken
[06:01] <jovian_> ahh well thanks nosilver4u
[06:01] <whiprush> Keybuk: right
[06:02] <amin2> i'm a novice, i want to upgrade
[06:02] <nosilver4u> not sure if that should be filed as a bug, or if it was entirely intentional
[06:02] <solsTiCe> nosilver4u: i installed gstreamer0.8-mad and I played mp2 with rhythmbox
[06:02] <nosilver4u> anyone in here know?
[06:02] <nosilver4u> really? how about an mp3?
[06:02] <solsTiCe> mp3
[06:02] <nosilver4u> haha
[06:03] <nosilver4u> tried that
[06:03] <nosilver4u> thanks though
[06:04] <nosilver4u> ok, maybe not
[06:04] <nosilver4u> just checked, and it's listed as uninstalled
[06:04] <nosilver4u> someone told me gstreamer-plugins would install all of them, but it didn't
[06:04] <nosilver4u> so i'm doing it now
[06:05] <amin2> i do the cmd: aptitude install ~tubuntu-desktop. it keeps install the evolution although i already removed it before using sypnaptic 
[06:05] <nosilver4u> ok jovian, it works
[06:05] <jovian_> trtying myself
[06:05] <Hmmmmm_> guys which is the bestt bittorrent frontend?
[06:06] <solsTiCe> Hmmmmm_: the one you like !
[06:06] <Hmmmmm_> solsTiCe, duh
[06:06] <spiv> amin2: evolution is in the ubuntu-desktop task, so installing that task will install evolution.
[06:07] <amin2> what files should i edit so that the cmd would not install it ?
[06:07] <spiv> I'm not aware of any easy way to say "install ubuntu-desktop, except this one package" :/
[06:08] <Keybuk> spiv: ~tubuntu-desktop!evolution  I think
[06:08] <theantix> Hmmmmm_: I like bittornado-gui
[06:08] <Hmmmmm_> ok
[06:08] <amin2> what if more than one files ?
[06:08] <Keybuk> well, blow me, that actually worked
[06:09] <nosilver4u> so everyone knows, if a newb needs mp3 support for rythmbox, tell them to install gstreamer-mad
[06:09] <theantix> nosilver4u: thanks for the tip
[06:09] <nosilver4u> thanks to solstice on that one
[06:09] <Bupknar> @quit
[06:10] <nosilver4u> everyone vote solsTiCe for pres
[06:10] <nosilver4u> of the world
[06:10] <nosilver4u> haha
[06:10] <nosilver4u> sorry, i'll shutup now
[06:11] <jovian_> well thanks for helping out nosilver4u
[06:11] <spiv> Keybuk: Time I learnt to become an aptitude weenie, maybe :)
[06:11] <spiv> Keybuk: I'm still an apt-get user, most of the time...
[06:12] <solsTiCe> Noodles: you said you did it ? but why now it works ?
[06:12] <littlepaul> does somebody know how to change the wallpaper automatically under gnome? Is there a script?
[06:12] <Keybuk> spiv: aptitude is fun ... aptitude purge '~i!~Awarty' (purge everything not in warty) ... aptitude search '~i~suniverse' (show me what I've got installed from universe) ... aptitude install '~srestricted' (install the entire restrictied component)
[06:14] <solsTiCe> Hmmmmm_: there is Bittornado or azureus (but the latter uses java)
[06:14] <Hmmmmm_> ic
[06:15] <spiv> Keybuk: Ooh.
[06:15] <amin2> Keybuk: so apt-get cmd applies to aptitude ?
[06:17] <mdz> amin2: no, apt-get and aptitude are different programs
[06:17] <Keybuk> amin2: yes.
[06:17] <Keybuk> it has a similar command-line interface
[06:17] <Keybuk> though more powerful
[06:17] <jovian_> yeah its working
[06:18] <amin2> I just did aptitude search ~i~suniverse it says:  This aptitude does not have Super Cow Powers.
[06:18] <amin2>  ???
[06:19] <Despair> amin2: `apt-get moo`
[06:19] <Keybuk> amin2: did you spell search correctly?
[06:20] <amin2> yes, the result is correct. "The Super Cow" is just the headline
[06:21] <calc> only 2 days left :)
[06:23] <thully> It looks like Ubuntu is about to exceed Debian's page views on DistroWatch for the past month
[06:23] <amin2> i love ubuntu. No more windows...
[06:23] <thully> Yes - everything works perfectly except suspend for me on my laptop
[06:23] <calc> how is mandrake that high though
[06:24] <thully> Because - it is popular w/ new users
[06:24] <Keybuk> calc: I've always suspected they have a bot that hits reload :p
[06:24] <thully> I used to use it - but it is Linux w/ Windows stability
[06:24] <littlepaul> i found an wallpaper changer for gnome it is a pearl script http://www.mavit.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/chbg-gnome2.pl
[06:24] <thully> Yoper was #2 on Distrowatch about 2 years ago - that was really suspicious
[06:27] <amin2> ubuntu is fast.
[06:27] <thully> yeah - it doesn't have 30 services starting by default like Mandrake and some others
[06:28] <amin2> is there anything like "Yast" 
[06:28] <amin2> I know Yast is open source now.
[06:28] <thully> The GNOME configuration tools are there for network, etc.
[06:28] <thully> It's designed to work w/SuSE, so it would probably be a lot of work to get it working on anything else
[06:29] <amin2> It's very nice though
[06:30] <thully> I like YaST also - I'm either going to use Ubuntu or SuSE 9.2 (when released) as my permanent distro
[06:30] <jovian_> ive had a few issues with ubuntu but mostly because of my unfamiliarty with a Debian distro and to Ubuntus credit everyone here on irc is very helpful getting any problem fixed no matter how dumb or basic the question
[06:30] <thully> I like the debian base - always wanted to use debian but it is so hard to install
[06:30] <yfir> i have a *very* basic question... 
[06:31] <opi^work> thully: it has same process as Ubuntu has
[06:31] <yfir> how to disable iptables packet info from being logged in syslog/messages
[06:31] <yfir> but allow other kernel messages
[06:31] <thully> However, it doesn't configure wi-fi cards the way Ubuntu does - and the fonts out of the box are as ugly as heck
[06:32] <thully> Ubuntu comes with some really nice fonts
[06:33] <xiximkopp> i tried to install crystalspace via synaptic: depends on: crystalspace but it is not installable
[06:33] <xiximkopp> why??
[06:34] <thully> crystalspace isn't in the archive 
[06:34] <thully> just crystalspace-data
[06:36] <xiximkopp> and why's that so??? cant beleave it...
[06:37] <xiximkopp> does the win bin work??
[06:37] <thully> must be a build problem that caused it to be excluded
[06:37] <thully> what?
[06:38] <xiximkopp> does the windows binary work?? then i could first check it out and then take this hard road of compiling :-D...
[06:38] <Kamion> thully: in fairness our wifi configuration is the same as Debian's; you might have been using a slightly different version of the installer
[06:38] <thully> running the windows binary on Ubuntu probably is tougher than compiling
[06:38] <Kamion> (well, basically the same; we have some adjustments to e.g. interface numbering)
[06:39] <thully> Kamion: but they don't have near as many drivers
[06:39] <thully> I have an ipw2200 card
[06:39] <Kamion> thully: true, at least for restricted-firmware stuff
[06:39] <enabl> are there any sources to add to get kde 3.3 or 3.3.1
[06:40] <Mitario> hello everyone
[06:40] <Mitario> i've made a little page of ideas for a ubuntu update UI: http://geeklog.eyesopened.nl/ubdates/, it would be really cool to receive ideas/feedback  :)
[06:41] <thully> enabl:not to my knowledge, except for adding the debian sources - and that could mess up some things
[06:42] <thully> once Warty is released, I think packages will start flowing into universe again and updates will be available - but these would only be for the hoary development version
[06:42] <enabl> thanks thully
[06:42] <Keybuk> thully: a little over-colourful ... I'd stick within the GNOME HIG for the dialog itself; might be nice to split by source as well giving security updates higher priority, etc.
[06:42] <Keybuk> otherwise cute
[06:42] <Keybuk> uh
[06:42] <Keybuk> s/thully/Mitario/
[06:43] <Keybuk> dunno how I did that one :p
[06:43] <Mitario> heh :)
[06:43] <opi^work> Mitario: looks like Red Hat up-2-date, I like it
[06:43] <opi^work> I will not use it, but I like it :)
[06:45] <thully> Is anybody using the KDE out of universe - how well does it work?
[06:45] <opi^work> Im trying to install Ubuntu for the fifth time, maybe now I'll have more luck :/
[06:46] <thully> That's funny - ubuntu worked far better than anything else for me
[06:46] <opi^work> thully: well, I think I had bad CD image
[06:46] <thully> It's the only distro that actually configures my wi-fi fully
[06:46] <opi^work> what I like in Ubuntu, it's custom option :)
[06:46] <gpled> i am looking into ubuntu (dont have it installed yet).  what version of postfix does it use, and how can i find versions for other software?
[06:47] <thully> gpled: Try distrowatch
[06:47] <opi^work> gpled: you can try http://packages.debian.org ;-))
[06:47] <Kamion> gpled: you can look through the archive, it's a standard Debian-format repository and versions are fairly easy to see
[06:47] <Kamion> archive.ubuntulinux.org
[06:47] <Kamion> opi^work: that's not really reliable
[06:47] <Kamion>    postfix | 2.1.3-1ubuntu17 |         warty | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[06:47] <opi^work> Kamion: very unreliable :)
[06:48] <opi^work> Kamion: notice emoicons
[06:48] <Kamion> yes, I know, but people might take it seriously
[06:48] <staticactivity> how can I prevent my /etc/resolv.conf file from getting overwritten everytime i reboot
[06:48] <opi^work> ok, sorry for misleading :)
[06:49] <whiprush> daniels: booyah just ordered myself an X40. your blog entry reassured my decision.
[06:50] <littlepaul> staticactivity: call pppoeconf
[06:50] <sebol> may i know wheather my language is supported in ubuntu or not?
[06:50] <sebol> Malay (ms)
 whats that, i connect to a router over ethernet
[06:50] <Kamion> sebol: not in the installer, at least
[06:51] <Kamion> I don't think there are many (if any) Malay translations
[06:51] <littlepaul> staticacitvity: i thought you connect via dsl dialup sorry
[06:51] <gpled> Kamion: thanks for the archive url.
[06:52] <sebol> what is the installer name? 
[06:52] <thully> The only thing I really think Ubuntu needs driverwise at this point are winmodem drivers
[06:53] <thully> Maybe also integrate ndiswrapper into the main install
[06:56] <ibmpc> ? I would like to connect to a Linksys Print Server PPSX1 Ver 2. I know the ip is 192.168.1.3 and the hardware id is 0480418C2C and name is SCE22411. Anyone have any Ideas?  I went to linksys site but only for linux and  it does not work in Ubuntu.
[06:56] <Mitario> Keybuk, oh, about the colors: i used them from the ubuntu palet btw
[06:58] <mirak_-> I LOVE UBUNTU
[06:58] <mirak_-> <3
[06:58] <Telep> right
[06:59] <lucas_> I'm trying to install Ubuntu from a old Preview CD. During the "load installer components from CD-ROM part", I get the following error in the 4th console :
[06:59] <lucas_> "anna" process says "grep: /cdrom/dists/stable/Release : Not a directory
[06:59] <whiprush> ibmpc: you try the address in a browser window?
[06:59] <Olivier_54> to
[06:59] <lucas_> is this problem known ?
[07:00] <ibmpc> Whiprush, I can talk to the print server, log on in a browser window.  Yes..
[07:00] <ish> What package do I need to enable LDAP support in Evolution?
[07:00] <froh> ibmpc: did you connect to it from a microsoft prduct before? 
[07:01] <Kamion> sebol: debian-installer
[07:01] <Kamion> (or "d-i")
[07:01] <froh> ibmpc: samba and cups would probably work
[07:01] <ibmpc> I installed the software for windows that came with the print server and it works great, I have two of them on my home network.
[07:01] <sebol> to translate it mean to translate upstream=
[07:01] <sebol> ?
[07:01] <Kamion> lucas_: that's often a consequence of DMA problems on the CD drive, which we fixed between preview and RC
[07:01] <Kamion> sebol: ideally, yes
[07:01] <ibmpc> froh, Ok, what is samba and/or cups?
[07:02] <lucas_> Kamion: thanks, I'll just check with a newer CD :)
[07:02] <Kamion> sebol: talk to Christian Perrier
[07:02] <froh> samba is an implementation of microsofts network filesharing/printing
[07:02] <froh> cups is the printing system that comes with ubuntu
[07:03] <lucas_> Kamion: thanks for the pointer, umounting, hdparm -d 0, mounting solved the problem =)
[07:03] <ibmpc> Froh, thanks, I am not sharing the printers from a ms machine, they are stand alone..
[07:03] <froh> point firefox to http://localhost:631 to configure cups
[07:03] <froh> ibmpc: yes, but i am guessing tht the printerserver is using the same protocoll as windows
[07:04] <The_Bell> anyone here knows how to drop all tables on a database?
[07:04] <The_Bell> in only one consult
[07:04] <The_Bell> without having to drop all of them one by one?
[07:05] <sparkes> The_Bell, what database?
[07:05] <darkersatanic> drop database blah; create database blah;
[07:05] <The_Bell> sparkes any database
[07:05] <The_Bell> MySQL
[07:05] <opi^work> The_Bell: DROP DATABASE x; CREATE DATABASE x; ;p
[07:05] <sparkes> darkersatanic, answered the question
[07:06] <The_Bell> opi^work I want to drop them ALL in ony consult
[07:06] <The_Bell> not one by one
[07:06] <The_Bell> one*
[07:06] <sebol> Kamion: thanks
[07:06] <The_Bell> without dropping the database
[07:07] <Treenaks> drop all databases? dpkg --purge mysql; apt-get install mysql ?
[07:07] <darkersatanic> Why do you want to do it all in one go?
[07:08] <opi^work> The_Bell: I don't know other solution
[07:08] <The_Bell> . . .
[07:08] <The_Bell> because i want
[07:08] <The_Bell> :)
[07:08] <opi^work> The_Bell: MySQL documentation also dosen't help
[07:08] <The_Bell> yeah I see
[07:08] <The_Bell> it didn't help me
[07:08] <The_Bell> well
[07:08] <opi^work> The_Bell: why you can not do what I told
[07:08] <The_Bell> I'll have to do it your way
[07:08] <opi^work> The_Bell: your user can not drop database?
[07:08] <The_Bell> better than dropping 20 tables
[07:08] <The_Bell> XD
[07:08] <The_Bell> yea I can
[07:08] <opi^work> sorry, Im not developing MySQL ;p
[07:08] <opi^work> just giving you a hint
[07:09] <The_Bell> I only didn't wan to reconfigure the permissions
[07:09] <The_Bell> nothing else
[07:09] <The_Bell> if I have to I will of course
[07:09] <The_Bell> thanks anyway
[07:09] <The_Bell> :)
[07:10] <bullet> hiya
[07:11] <bullet> I am curious, if you use ubuntu, do the main deb binary trees still function?
[07:12] <yfir> question: how to disable iptables packet info from being logged in syslog but not other kernel messages
[07:14] <jimi> bye 
[07:14] <opi^work> *sigh* it takes up to 3 minutes to load Ubuntu on my laptop :(
[07:14] <opi^work> bullet: read FAQ, you can use it, but it will not be smart move
[07:16] <justdave> yfir: iptables doesn't log anything unless you explicitly ask it to.
[07:16] <justdave> yfir: if you have a script file that you're feeding to iptables at boot or something, look in that file for rules with "-j LOG" as the destination
[07:16] <bullet> opi^work: well does ubuntu have a fully functional apt tree then? *reads faq*
[07:17] <mirak_-> man I must say that Iafter using ubuntu all weekend at home, using window at work really sucks
[07:17] <opi^work> bullet: it has
[07:17] <opi^work> bullet: it's a Debian fork
[07:17] <opi^work> bullet: same base, different aproach
[07:17] <thully> Yes - it's a cleaned up snapshot of unstable - they release every 6 months
[07:17] <mirak_-> thully, is that a garuntee every six months??
[07:18] <johnlevin> anyone here tried installing ubuntu on a g3 imac?
[07:19] <thully> I think so - or at least they try very hard
[07:19] <yfir> johnlevin - a friend of mine did and afaik he had several problems. but i don't know details
[07:19] <yfir> by 'several problems' i mean he eventually gave up
[07:20] <johnlevin> yfir: ubuntu is apparently running out of disk space during the install
[07:20] <johnlevin> which is a bit unlikely, as I've given it 8 gigs
[07:21] <yfir> i can't really help, i don't know much about macs. just mentioned it because i know that installing ubuntu on a g3 has been problematic
[07:21] <johnlevin> I'll go check bugzilla. thanks
[07:21] <justdave> johnlevin: what model iMac?
[07:21] <johnlevin> graphite g3 600mhz
[07:22] <justdave> if it's one of the CRT ones, they had an 8 GB limit on the bootable space on the hard drive.
[07:22] <justdave> all bootable partitions have to completely reside within the first 8 GB of the drive.
[07:22] <justdave> a partition that's exactly 8 GB is likely outside that since there'll be housekeeping partitions at the front.
[07:23] <johnlevin> justdave: does that mean the ubuntu partition has to be before the os x partition?
[07:24] <justdave> No, the same rules apply to OS X
[07:24] <justdave> both partitions (the bootable ones) would need to be inside that first 8 GB
[07:24] <johnlevin> right - I don't think that's the problem, or at least not a problem yet.
[07:25] <justdave> although, from the little bit I know about how yaboot works, I would suspect that only the NewWorld Boot Block needs to be inside that 8 GB for Linux, but I don't know that for sure.
[07:25] <Kamion> justdave: that'd be my strong suspicion too.
[07:25] <johnlevin> yes - I'm going to have to re-arrange the New World Boot block
[07:25] <johnlevin> but the install is crashing whilst installing the base system
[07:28] <bullet> does the ubuntu installer automatically do the XFree server config, and does it use binary nvidia drivers if you have an nvidia card?
[07:28] <bullet> or do i have to hack it up like i do on my distros :)
[07:29] <spiv> bullet: It'll automatically detect and configure XFree84 with the free nv driver.
[07:29] <solsTiCe> you have to install them yourself but you could simply intall the nvidia-glx package and run nvidia-config (somethinglike that)
[07:29] <spiv> bullet: See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverHowto for details on using the binary one.
[07:29] <mirak_-> bullet, during the initail run, I know for sure there is an ati choise, but just browsing by I didn't see a nvidia one
[07:30] <mirak_-> bullet, alas, I do not use nvidia, so I wasn't looking, I just didn't notice
[07:31] <mirak_-> I have a uick question....my mobo has onboard graphics, prosavage I believe, think I could get that to run better in linux than my ati radeon 7000/ve????
[07:32] <Despair> mirak_: probably not. via/s3 drivers aren't very complete or stable for 3d yet.
[07:32] <mirak_-> despair, what a bummer, looks like I am totally screwed then
[07:33] <mirak_-> ah well, ET still runs....ok.......guess ill have to make do
[07:34] <aaronwaite> mirak_: are you looking for 3D performance specifically? I don't know what the Ubuntu people did to the generic "ati" driver, but the Radeon 7000 flies on my machine compared to other distros.
[07:34] <thully> Can you use ATI binary drivers w/a Mobility Radeon 7500
[07:35] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, yeah it works good, Yoper  gave me no luck (ive only tried ubuntu and yoper), I was just wondering if I could get that prosavage working really well
[07:35] <aaronwaite> thully: nope. i think the supported cards for the binary driver start around the 8500 line.
[07:35] <opi^work> ok, anyone could name Debain based light distribution?
[07:35] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, what kind of fps are you getting???
[07:35] <opi^work> My laptop is unable to serve nice Ubuntu feeling :(
[07:36] <thully> what problems are you having?
[07:36] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, how is you back today????
[07:36] <opi^work> thully: it's hanging at second stage (after user configuration) 
[07:36] <aaronwaite> mirak: i haven't tried much 3D stuff yet. is there an installed app i could use to check that for you?
[07:37] <punkass_> opi^work: you could try Xfce on ubuntu
[07:37] <opi^work> punkass_: Im running XFce on Ubuntu at home
[07:37] <opi^work> punkass_: I've got laptop to play with, but I can't get Ubuntu on it
[07:37] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, glxgears...or something like that...is already installed
[07:37] <aaronwaite> mirak: the drugs are just kicking in now, so it's not too bad at the moment. unfortunately they also made me sleep through the community meeting.
[07:37] <punkass_> oh i thought you had it installed already
[07:37] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, you didn't miss much
[07:38] <opi^work> punkass_: it is installed
[07:38] <opi^work> punkass_: just waits forever while it should process to GDM
[07:38] <thully> Have you tried some of the different daily ISO snapshots, and have you filed a bug report
[07:38] <punkass_> ah
[07:38] <aaronwaite> mirak: at the default window size, i'm getting around 1300 FPS.
[07:38] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, I can revive it for you............MAN WHAT IS UP WITH THE SPLASH SCREEN.....ha
[07:38] <opi^work> thully: I just discovered it
[07:38] <opi^work> thully: it's same CD I've used at home
[07:39] <aaronwaite> LOL @ mirak
[07:39] <bdoetsch> mirak: was there a conclusion?
[07:39] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, wtf.......i get 135.6 at 1024x768
[07:39] <mirak_-> bdoetsch, I wass told the conclusion will be in the "list"
[07:39] <keta> can I debootstrap ubuntu the way I'm used to with various debian flavours in chroot for testing?
[07:39] <bdoetsch> thx :-)
[07:40] <aaronwaite> mirak: i just have it at the default (rather small) window that opened when i ran that command. let me try it fullscreen (which is 1600x1200 in my case)
[07:40] <mirak_-> bdoetsch, np
[07:40] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, I got that speed running glxgears at the default size as well.....why is mine so low????
[07:40] <mirak_-> your is rocking
[07:40] <Despair> mirak_: is it an agp card? is agp properly enabled? Do you have properly set mtrrs?
[07:41] <mirak_-> despair, it is agp
[07:41] <aaronwaite> mirak: it's doing around 230 FPS at 1600x1200
[07:41] <mirak_-> despair, mtrrs?
[07:41] <Despair> mirak_: `cat /proc/mtrr`
[07:41] <iz> is there a howto to get the nvidea working in the amd64 version?
[07:41] <mirak_-> aaronwaite despair, I must not have done something
[07:42] <Despair> hmm, ubuntu isn't automagically setting the mtrr for the framebuffer here.
[07:42] <mirak_-> despair, I will be at home on my linux box in about 4 hours......you think you can help me then????
[07:42] <Despair> mirak_: probably
[07:42] <aaronwaite> Despair: what SHOULD we be seeing in /proc/mtrr?
[07:42] <mirak_-> despair, thnx
[07:42] <Despair> aaronwaite: varies with the card. basically, at least one for the main memory range (usually write-back)
[07:43] <Despair> then 1 set to write-combining for the gart window
[07:43] <aaronwaite> despair: i have three lines total - one "write-back" and two "write-combing". 
[07:44] <Despair> then another for video memory, also write-combining
[07:44] <Despair> aaronwaite: yep, I suspect yours are right, given the greater speed you are reporting.
[07:44] <mirak_-> despair, I agree his scores are waya bove mine, we have the same card
[07:45] <aaronwaite> i DID notice in a log file somewhere (but I can't find it again) that there was a problem running at AGP 4x, so it was defaulting to AGP 1x. 
[07:45] <Despair> anyways, direct rendering being enabled and agp are the first things to check before mtrrs
[07:45] <Despair> That depends on the video card and motherboard.
[07:45] <mirak_-> despair, I don't know how to do that either...............help me later????
[07:45] <opi^work> ok, it's apt-get'ing now
[07:45] <opi^work> maybe I'll have Ubuntu working after all ;)
[07:45] <Despair> X caps at agp 4x on most distributions, but I'm running at 8x
[07:46] <Despair> mirak_: as I said, I'll probably be here, and be happy to help if I can.
[07:46] <mirak_-> despair, I belive my card and mobo cap at 4x
[07:46] <aaronwaite> is there someplace to explicitly set AGP?
[07:46] <mirak_-> despait, :) thnx
[07:46] <mirak_-> despair, :) thnx
[07:47] <aaronwaite> my mobo supports up to AGP 8x "Pro", but the card is only 4x. 
[07:48] <Despair> aaronwaite: 8x card & motherboard, perfectly stable here. I was just pointing out that the safe defaults cover all systems, and don't have exceptions for the ones that do work right.
[07:48] <Despair> So the adventurous can sometimes get a little better speed. Or a lot worse stability...
[07:49] <aaronwaite> gotcha. i don't really have any complaints about performance, so i'll use the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule. :)
[07:51] <aaronwaite> back to the meeting subject, did we come to any conclusion or did Mark just listen to more opinions and will give us an answer later?
[07:51] <Despair> For most of the apps that are usable on an R7000, agp speed wont make much of a difference, as long as at least 1x is enabled.
[07:51] <aaronwaite> Despair: good. thanks! 
[07:52] <johnlevin> aaronwaite: Mark listened - concensus was that the human theme is not default. Mark will send a summary to the mailing list.
[07:53] <johnlevin> SUCCESS!
[07:53] <aaronwaite> i just remembered that i'm driving my monitor through an (active) KVM switch. maybe that messed with the probing a little.
[07:53] <johnlevin> justdave: you were right - a bit of tinkering with the partition got over the disk space problem
[07:54] <Despair> Anyone know why there's no gkrellm package for amd64 in ubuntu? 64bit issues with gkrellm, slipped through the cracks, loathing of all the flashing lights..?
[07:55] <iz> Despair, have you try gdesklets?
[07:55] <aaronwaite> johnlevin: excellent. i think that's the best solution, but i hope they'll still be available somewhere. the quality of the theme was great. 
[07:56] <Despair> iz: I'm used to gkrellm, I'm just puzzled at it's omission. :)
[07:56] <iz> :)
[07:57] <aaronwaite> i've never had much luck with gkrellm - in particular i could never get any of the weather modules to understand where i live. :)
[07:58] <subterrific> i used to use it when i used KDE, but when i switched to gnome i started using applets
[08:00] <nosilver4u> anyone had any success using nfs in ubuntu?
[08:00] <nosilver4u> keeps giving me connection refused errors
[08:00] <aitrus> nosilver4u: i'm using NFS in ubuntu
[08:01] <nosilver4u> what package(s) did you need on the server?
[08:01] <aitrus> nosilver4u: is your ubuntu box the client or server?
[08:01] <nosilver4u> both client and server are running ubuntu
[08:01] <aitrus> nosilver4u: is "nfs-kernel-server" installed?
[08:02] <aitrus> have you messed with your /etc/hosts.[allow|deny]  ?
[08:02] <nosilver4u> nope
[08:02] <nosilver4u> haven't touched em
[08:02] <nosilver4u> do i need to?
[08:02] <nosilver4u> yeah, the nfs-kernel-server is running
[08:03] <aitrus> nosilver4u: well, as long as /etc/hosts.deny is empty, you should be okay as far as tcp wrappers goes (though that's not recommended for security reasons)
[08:04] <nosilver4u> i can connect to other services running on the server (http, ftp), just not nfs
[08:04] <aitrus> does your /etc/exports use ip addresses or host names?
[08:04] <nosilver4u> the exact error message is: mount: RPC: Remote system error - Connection refused
[08:05] <nosilver4u> i actually had it set to * (not recommended, i know) but for debugging
[08:05] <aitrus> and portmap's running, too?
[08:05] <nosilver4u> i assume so
[08:06] <nosilver4u> how do i check
[08:06] <aitrus> ps auxw | grep portmap
[08:06] <aitrus> client and server
[08:06] <nosilver4u> ah, it wasn't
[08:06] <nosilver4u> still no good
[08:06] <aitrus> also, if portmap binds to 127.0.0.1 you'll have to change that i believe
[08:07] <aitrus> clear out the args in /etc/default/portmap
[08:07] <aitrus> then restart
[08:08] <nosilver4u> restart just portmap, i'm assuming?
[08:08] <aitrus> both on client and server
[08:08] <nosilver4u> golden
[08:08] <nosilver4u> thanks
[08:08] <aitrus> now lock that thing down!
[08:09] <bullet> i just ordered some cd's :D i'll give them out to people where i work (i work at pc club a computer parts store)
[08:09] <nosilver4u> fortunately, i already am, via our network firewall
[08:09] <aitrus> nosilver4u: soemtimes it's the people behind the firewall with you that are the worst
[08:10] <nosilver4u> yeah, i'd be worried if i wasn't good friends with all the tech-savvy folks on our network
[08:11] <nosilver4u> and the only one with the knowledge to hack me is my boss
[08:11] <nosilver4u> haha
[08:11] <mteira> What is the state of totem-gstreamer? is it usable?
[08:11] <mirak_-> mteira, works for me
[08:12] <mteira> mirak_: What graphic card do you have?
[08:12] <mirak_-> radeon 7000
[08:12] <bronson> Boy, not me.
[08:12] <mteira> mirak_: It didn't show any image for me, and the audio/video properties tab used to crash
[08:12] <bronson> Totem barely plays half of what I ask it to.
[08:12] <bronson> And it segfaults every time I quit.
[08:12] <mirak_-> im a newb, maybe I am confused
[08:13] <mirak_-> I was talking for mp3's
[08:13] <mteira> totem-xine didn't work perfectly, anyway.
[08:13] <mteira> mirak_: OK.
[08:13] <mirak_-> havent got dvd's to work yet
[08:13] <bronson> Ah, for mp3s I use xmms or rhythmbox.  :)
[08:13] <mteira> mirak_: Excuse me, i was talking about video, mainly.
[08:13] <mteira> I use beep-media-player for audio.
[08:13] <mteira> Like xmms but on gtk2.
[08:13] <mirak_-> mteira, then I apologize.....ive been trying to set up mplayer
[08:13] <bronson> I got totem-xine working for DVDs last night.
[08:14] <bronson> Er, no.
[08:14] <mteira> mirak_: It works for me.
[08:14] <mteira> mirak_: mplayer, I mean.
[08:14] <bronson> That was mplayer.  I couldn't get totem-xine to play a dvd.
[08:14] <mteira> bronson: But does mplayer have DVD menu support?
[08:14] <harfooz> bronson: what did you do to get totem to working in ubuntu?
[08:14] <bronson> mteira: no, but xine does.
[08:14] <Despair> xine-ui works nicely, as long as you don't have a broken window manager beating on it's menu windows.
[08:14] <cardador> harfooz: install totem-xine and w32codecs
[08:14] <mteira> bronson: So, totem-xine should do it
[08:15] <mirak_-> mteira, I need the souce for mplayer, I was following a ubuntu how to.........but the sorce part stopped me...what they told me to do would work...couldnt connect to a server
[08:15] <bronson> AFAICT, Totem hardly works at all.
[08:15] <bronson> I'd use xine-ui.
[08:15] <Hatknut> can i install ubuntu in a chroot under debian?
[08:15] <harfooz> cardador: I did that and still didn't work. I think I incorrectly did the link to the dvd
[08:15] <mteira> mirak_-: I just used the marillat package.
[08:15] <harfooz> I did what I found on the forums.
[08:15] <mteira> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main
[08:16] <theantix> totem-xine and w32codecs work fine for me
[08:16] <mirak_-> mteira, I already grabbed all of the libs, how to get the marillat package??
[08:16] <harfooz> but when I do Play disk, all I got was nautilus.
[08:16] <mteira> mirak_-: I added that repository and downloaded a binary version. It works fine for me.
[08:16] <mteira> mirak_-: Well, I'll told what I made.
[08:16] <mteira> mirak_-: Added this line to /etc/apt/sources.list
[08:16] <mteira> deb ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat unstable main
[08:16] <mirak_-> mteira, hmm ill have to try that when I get home, for I am at work...on a windows box
[08:17] <aaronwaite> Hatknut: are you trying to "upgrade" from debian to ubuntu? if so, there are some instructions in the FAQ or wiki somewhere.
[08:17] <mteira> mirak_-: Then apt-get update
[08:17] <mteira> mirak_-: apt-get install mplayer-686 (in my computer)
[08:17] <mteira> mirak_-: Of course, you can also make all these things using the Synaptic Package manager.
[08:17] <Hatknut> aaronwaite: not really. i thought i'd test it in a chroot before going all the way
[08:18] <mirak_-> mteira, Im a nwb...but not that newb....hehe
[08:18] <mteira> mirak_-: OK
[08:18] <mirak_-> mteira, I just hang out in this room all day.....i learn so much
[08:18] <mteira> I have a lot of trouble with my AMD 756 USB and ubuntu.
[08:19] <mteira> I'm not sure if it's ubuntu specific or it's a kernel problem.
[08:19] <mteira> Perhaps the second.
[08:19] <aaronwaite> Hatknut: i see. i've never tried anything like that, so i can't answer. the devs are usually really responsive on the mailing list if you want to try there.
[08:19] <Mithrandir> mteira: what kind of problems?
[08:19] <Hatknut> aaronwaite: mm'kay. thanks.
[08:19] <mteira> Mithrandir: boot process hangs.
[08:20] <mteira> Mithrandir: hald in D state forever.
[08:20] <mteira> Mithrandir: So, nothing is working.
[08:20] <Mithrandir> mteira: why do you think this has anything to do with your USB setup?
[08:20] <mteira> Mithrandir: cat /proc/bus/usb/devices hangs forever.
[08:20] <mteira> Mithrandir: Everything happens when I plug in my usb scanner.
[08:20] <Mithrandir> ok
[08:21] <Mithrandir> does other linux distributions work?
[08:21] <mteira> Mithrandir: After some time, it says something about a timeout, and then, all this problems.
[08:21] <Despair> mteira: sounds like kernel usb breakage, there's been a fair amount of that in 2.6
[08:21] <mteira> Despair: Yes, I think so.
[08:21] <mteira> Despair: But it renders Ubuntu unusable on one of my computers.
[08:21] <mteira> Despair: I've tried with noacpi and friends boot options.
[08:22] <mteira> Despair: With the k7 and 386 kernel images.
[08:22] <mteira> Despair: And the scanner works fine plugged on another machine (an intel mainboard based)
[08:22] <mteira> perhaps with the next kernel.
[08:22] <LeeColleton> is there a reference for building a gdm theme?  I can't find one on art.gnome.org ..
[08:22] <mteira> Or perhaps some rc have it fixed.
[08:22] <Mithrandir> mteira: please file a bug in bugzilla and include the output of lspci and lspci -n
[08:22] <Despair> I think 2.6.9 is going to be a bit too late to make it into Ubuntu's 1st release, unfortunately.
[08:23] <mteira> Mithrandir: I've made so.
[08:23] <mteira> Mithrandir: I filled a bug a week ago.
[08:23] <mteira> Mithrandir: But my bug was marked as duplicate and the original one was closed.
[08:23] <Mithrandir> which bug number is that?
[08:23] <mteira> Mithrandir: I've found another one and added a comment to it.
[08:24] <mteira> Mithrandir: No, finally I've found 1923.
[08:24] <siegfried> bonsoir
[08:24] <mteira> Mithrandir: And added my contribution there.
[08:25] <SepheeBear> LeeColleton: here... http://www.jirka.org/gdm-documentation/x1259.html
[08:25] <Azeal> I love Ubuntu, my desktop looks great now, all except the QT applications with the blocky fonts, is there a way to make them anti-alias? 
[08:28] <LeeColleton> SepheeBear: thanks.. do you know if gdm will also read from /usr/local/share/gdm/themes ?  As I understand it I should leave /usr/share alone and make changes only in /usr/local/share ..
[08:28] <spikeb> mirak_ what was the URL for that one place that sells used hardware?
[08:29] <spikeb> i remmeberd
[08:29] <spikeb> nevermind
[08:29] <needhelpbadly> can anyone help me install/fix network dirvers for my compaq 2500 laptop? i also cant install yelp
[08:30] <AndyFit1> Michiel here ?
[08:30] <Mitario> if you mean me, yes i'm here ;)
[08:31] <SepheeBear> LeeColleton: never tried '/usr/local/share/gdm' AFAIK any theme i install gets put into '/usr/share/...'
[08:31] <adam_> hey guys, i installed Ubuntu 4.1RC1 and i installed the orinoco usb drivers from CVS, when i try and activate it, in the sys log it says "probe of 1-3:1.0 failed with error -14, any ideas?
[08:31] <cardador> Azeal: install kde control center
[08:31] <needhelpbadly> anyone have advice on a good support site for fixing/ installing  NIC drivers on ubuntu/debian?
[08:31] <Azeal> cardador, thanks, i'll try that
[08:32] <AndyFit1> check your blog comments  Mitario
[08:32] <cardador> Azeal: then use it to change stuff the way you want
[08:32] <Mitario> AndyFit1, wow! thank you!
[08:33] <Azeal> cardador: Will this enable anti-alias fonts in QT applications under gnome? Or do I need to have some special kde component running?
[08:33] <AndyFit1> glad to help. Looking forward to using ubuntu update
[08:33] <cardador> Azeal: yes
[08:33] <LeeColleton> SepheeBear: The only way this could be a conflict is if I name my theme "foo" and then dpkg comes along and tries to install another "foo" theme on top of it.  I don't think it will be a problem but it's a good idea to avoid these conflicts as a general rule
[08:33] <cardador> Azeal: it will enable aa fonts, if you choose to
[08:34] <Mitario> AndyFit1, OMG those logo's look sweeeeet
[08:34] <Azeal> cardador: Oh it worked, thanks alot! =)
[08:35] <cardador> np
[08:35] <AndyFit1> Mitario:  thanks,  imo id go with the first one .  i can send you the svg file and you'll notice its better at smaller resolutions for an icon
[08:36] <Mitario> AndyFit1, yes, that would be very nice :)
[08:36] <SepheeBear> LeeColleton: good rule but i usually dont worry about that because the only GDM themes i install as debs are the ubuntu ones
[08:36] <needhelpbadly> did i ask too rudely? is there some one with advice to get my new machine online?
[08:37] <LinuxJones> needhelpbadly, what kind of network card do you have ?
[08:37] <mirak_-> linuxjones to the rescue
[08:37] <LinuxJones> hi mirak_ ;)
[08:37] <mirak_-> hi
[08:38] <needhelpbadly> can this be found in my messed up gnu system or do i need to check specs?
[08:38] <LinuxJones> do a sudo -i lspci -v
[08:39] <LinuxJones> needhelpbadly, that will list the hardware you have on your pci slots
[08:39] <needhelpbadly> ok rebooting had some trouble
[08:39] <needhelpbadly> ty
[08:39] <LinuxJones> needhelpbadly, ok
[08:41] <needhelpbadly> im a bloody newb imust say...it tells me -i is an illegal option...
[08:42] <LinuxJones> do lspci | grep Network
[08:43] <misha> anybody got a soundblaster 16 working?
[08:44] <needhelpbadly> National Semi...DP83815 (MacPhyter) ethernet controller
[08:45] <dickmorrell> misha yes
[08:45] <dickmorrell> happilt
[08:45] <dickmorrell> happily.. 
[08:45] <dickmorrell> standard PCI bus 
[08:46] <misha> dickmorrell, :( ISA here
[08:46] <needhelpbadly> correction it say my Network controller is my BCM94306 802.11g...id be happy to connect anyway possible. 
[08:47] <dickmorrell> misha get a PCI
[08:47] <dickmorrell> they're like $4
[08:47] <dickmorrell> ebay is your friend
[08:47] <dickmorrell> or is this a "lets use an old pc and cross our fingers"
[08:47] <dickmorrell> if so ebay..
[08:49] <misha> this were in the part of the world where we do not have ebay, and the box is not mine anyways :)
[08:49] <dickmorrell> the internet hasnt reached wherever you are
[08:49] <misha> so cross fingers, kick box and convince alsa to give me sound
[08:49] <dickmorrell> and yet you can log on irc
[08:49] <dickmorrell> thats cool
[08:49] <misha> ok,ok i'm cheap
[08:49] <dickmorrell> xactly
[08:50] <Azeal> doesnt oss have soundblaster 16 (isa) support? not sure about alsa
[08:50] <dickmorrell> right OSS and ALSA both support it
[08:50] <dickmorrell> you need to know IRQ 
[08:50] <Despair> misha: check that it's not muted or doesn't have sound mixers set to 0, particularly pcm
[08:50] <dickmorrell> /etc/modules.conf is your friend
[08:50] <misha> Despair, no no /dev/dsp device
[08:51] <dickmorrell> ahh xmms hell huh
[08:51] <misha> dickmorrell, ok, checking it out...
[08:51] <dickmorrell> http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/doc-php/template.php?module=sb16
[08:51] <dickmorrell> check it out
[08:51] <dickmorrell> amazing what google can throw up in 9 nanoseconds
[08:51] <lupus> I find it crap
[08:51] <dickmorrell> http://www.cs.ucr.edu/~jbyrne/config/alsa/sb16.txt
[08:51] <lupus> that you can not select your primary sound device
[08:52] <lupus> with some utility
[08:52] <dickmorrell> that will help you set up your /etc/modules.conf
[08:52] <dickmorrell> you can ...
[08:52] <dickmorrell> there are tons of frontends to OSS and ALSA
[08:52] <dickmorrell> or compile sndconfig
[08:52] <dickmorrell> its only what 8 yrs old ?
[08:52] <lupus> euhm
[08:52] <lupus> something default in gnome
[08:52] <dickmorrell> default..
[08:53] <lupus> if possible :)
[08:53] <dickmorrell> welcome to OpenSource we like you to think
[08:53] <dickmorrell> and also contribute
[08:53] <dickmorrell> Ubuntu will actually do a really cool job
[08:53] <lupus> if all apps where gstreamer using
[08:53] <mirak_-> ubuntu is nice...........
[08:53] <dickmorrell> at supporting almost all pci and embedded pci sound devices
[08:53] <dickmorrell> gstreamer is a piece of crap
[08:53] <misha> lupus, you must have been reading the guide: how to get flamed in three easy lessons?
[08:53] <lupus> selecting the sound device is easy :)
[08:53] <lupus> :
[08:53] <lupus> :P
[08:54] <dickmorrell> Ubuntu does some really cool stuff
[08:54] <mirak_-> misha..........hahahaa
[08:54] <dickmorrell> that you arent giving it credit...
[08:54] <dickmorrell> examples..
[08:54] <lupus> I don't mind getting flamed :)
[08:54] <dickmorrell> redhat and CentOS, Mandrake etc find it a complete ass
[08:54] <Azeal> misha: Should be enough to insert snd-card-sb16, create /dev/dsp unless it exists, use alsamixer to Master+PCM and set the volume for them. Which step failed?
[08:54] <dickmorrell> to support SIS and some NVidia embedded soundchip
[08:54] <dickmorrell> crystal and ESS stuff
[08:54] <dickmorrell> Ubuntu stretches its legs,
[08:54] <dickmorrell> scratches its nuts
[08:55] <dickmorrell> and just supports them native
[08:55] <dickmorrell> no Alsa config or OSS hell
[08:55] <dickmorrell> if you are going to use an OLD 1923 steampowered $1.30 SB16 card probe the IRQs
[08:55] <misha> Azeal, brb adding it right now
[08:55] <dickmorrell> and you are away with a smile
[08:56] <sii> hey, sb16 was cool 10 years ago, don't be mean to it :)
[08:56] <LinuxJones> needhelpbadly, I don't have a wireless net card but here might be some help >> http://bnmr.triumf.ca/~zaher/Presario_2197CA/
[08:56] <misha> dickmorrell, if SB16 was good enough for my grandfather...
[08:56] <needhelpbadly> ty checking now
[08:57] <XTaran> Huh, it's full here. :)
[08:57] <Azeal> misha: Adding what? Just do a modprobe on it first and see if it works =) Or are you compiling a kernel?
[08:57] <mirak_-> xtaran, of course it is :)
[08:58] <XTaran> mirak_-: :)
[08:58] <dickmorrell> can I pass anyone a beer ?
[08:58] <XTaran> Ehm, anyone here's who's responsible for the shipit web page?
[08:58] <aaronwaite> dickmorrell: two please.
[08:58] <mirak_-> dickmorrell, bit earlly for me
[08:58] <lobo_nz> sabdfl: I got gnome starting up - I have narrowed down the possible causes and it seems to be the MB
[08:58] <dickmorrell> if I could I would the thought counts and I did offer
[08:58] <lupus> Is it just me
[08:58] <mirak_-> dickmorrell, 3:00pm here
[08:58] <sabdfl> lobo_nz: ok
[08:59] <lupus> or is there no gstreamer-properties icon
[08:59] <lupus> in the menu
[08:59] <aaronwaite> mmmm.... beer....
[08:59] <lupus> I mean 'launcher'
[08:59] <mirak_-> aaronwaite, bit early for you too, and you are medicated.........
[08:59] <lobo_nz> sabdfl: I dont know what gnome would clash with my MB but I replaced it and my Processor and all is fine now - very weird
[08:59] <dickmorrell> I gave up on gstreamer months ago 
[08:59] <misha> Azeal, no modprobe doesn't work
[08:59] <dickmorrell> installed a debian box on an old crapbox PII
[09:00] <Azeal> misha, what does it say?
[09:00] <dickmorrell> netjuke with 5 x firewire 160gbs
[09:01] <aaronwaite> mirak_: i have to occasionally skip the pain meds in favor of a guinness or two. :-)
[09:02] <needhelpbadly> it seems that his DP83815 was setup automatically.....but now i know what im working with
[09:03] <LinuxJones> needhelpbadly, did you look @ Computer >> System Configuration >> Networking ?
[09:04] <needhelpbadly> yes i enter in all my info...but now the dialoge crashes every time i try to open it
[09:04] <jason> does anybody know how to automount working the fstab?
[09:04] <jason> in*
[09:05] <LinuxJones> needhelpbadly, again I don't have a wireless card so I can't really help sorry :)
[09:05] <Kamion> XTaran: I'd suggest mailing mako@canonical.com
[09:05] <XTaran> Kamion: Thanks!
[09:05] <muelling> Hello everyone! 
[09:05] <LinuxJones> hi muelling
[09:05] <XTaran> Kamion: Thought, IRC might be the shorter way. :)
[09:05] <dickmorrell> wow someone social
[09:05] <dickmorrell> lets ask him for beer
[09:05] <needhelpbadly> that cool you tried....i cant even get the wired controller to work lol. wireless is a little in the future :)
[09:06] <muelling> I have just one little PRoblem with my ubuntu installation. 
[09:06] <dickmorrell> sure shoot what is it
[09:06] <dickmorrell> how can we help
[09:07] <muelling> i just compiled a new kernel (2.6.1.8) wich is running very well without any problems as far as i can see. Then i installed the current nvidia drivers.
[09:07] <XTaran> Ok, thanks & cu!
[09:07] <jason> does anybody know how to get automount working in the fstab?
[09:07] <muelling> I made all the necessary changes to my XF86Config-4 file like described in the readme. but i have to do sudo modprobe nvidia
[09:08] <muelling> everytime i am booting linux. 
[09:08] <longsleep> my laptop + ubuntu seem to have a problem with networking .. the first couple of packages never work .. dhcp fails because of this reason. If i do manual configuration the first 3 pings fail and afterwards all is fine. Ideas?
[09:08] <adam_> hey guys, im having problems activating this wireless card, it says "probe of 1-3:1.0 failed with error -14" any dieas?
[09:08] <muelling> how can i automate this?
[09:08] <LinuxJones> muelling, add nvidia to /etc/modules 
[09:08] <jason> /dev/hda        /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 ro,user,auto  0       0 
[09:08] <dickmorrell> adam_, what card
[09:08] <LinuxJones> muelling, that will fix you up
[09:08] <adam_> orinoco_usb
[09:08] <dickmorrell> longsleep what ethernet device
[09:08] <dickmorrell> k
[09:08] <jason> that is what my fstab says for my cdrom but it wont automount for my user only root
[09:09] <longsleep> dickmorrell, tulip driver
[09:09] <dickmorrell> longsleep you shouldnt have a prob its supported
[09:09] <muelling> ok. just made the change. I will now reboot my machine and come back in a few minutes. :-) Thanks!
[09:10] <icarnales> hi, anyone knows howto modify the gnome "custom" menu that comes with ubuntu?
[09:11] <dickmorrell> icarnales, select the universe packages
[09:11] <dickmorrell> and install gconf and then 
[09:11] <dickmorrell> run it
[09:11] <icarnales> yah, i got gconf, but how i reach the custom menu?
[09:11] <LinuxJones> jason,  mine is the same as your only it says noauto and strangely enough it auto mounts for me. It must be set somewhere else which is weird ??
[09:11] <adam_> dickmorrell any ideas?
[09:11] <w3c> hi
[09:12] <diodeno> hello all
[09:12] <w3c> does ubuntu installs on RAID devices ?
[09:13] <jason> ok thanks LinuxJones
[09:13] <jason> Ill try that
[09:13] <LinuxJones> jason,  the thing is that It's not supposed to automount with noauto in fstab, odd
[09:15] <tolle> How do I generate the debian folder in a sourcetree?
[09:15] <adam_> i'm getting errors with the hotplug also...
[09:15] <adam_> when i start
[09:15] <tolle> so that i can make a .deb file out of a program i have compiled on my own
[09:15] <adam_> pciehp, shpchp, and hw_random "inserting option not permitted"
[09:15] <adam_> *operation not option
[09:16] <icarnales> yeah, me too, but it says in the filed bug that that's a "cosmetic issue"
[09:16] <adam_> oh ok
[09:16] <aitrus> tolle: if you aren't going to distribute it and just wnat to install something from source on yoru local machine you could use checkinstall
[09:17] <muelling> Hi. Now i'm back again. :-) Thanks for oyur help. it worked! You are now in my book of "cool people" :-))
[09:17] <jason> LinuxJones it doesn't work for me :(
[09:17] <tolle> aitrus: i found it. deb-make and then dpkg-buildpkg
[09:17] <muelling> Dou have problems with the nvidia driver too?
[09:19] <needhelpbadly> i am going to reinstall. third times the charm...:) thanks for tryin
[09:28] <muelling> Do oyu have any news about the final release of ubuntu 4.10 ?
[09:31] <Despair> hmm, gdesklets don't work, just exit after spitting out a copyright message.
[09:32] <aitrus> Despair: operator error... you have to actually load one
[09:32] <jonah> hi ! is there a simple way to play mp3-files ?
[09:32] <Despair> aitrus: I was. daemon had crashed.
[09:33] <jonah> totem cant do that ...
[09:33] <Despair> aitrus: operator error is very easy when the app gives no feedback.
[09:33] <aitrus> Despair: the fortune one works for sure
[09:33] <aitrus> Despair: yeah, they could use some work.  they seem too magic
[09:34] <jonah> no idea to play mp3 ?
[09:35] <aitrus> http://wiki.ubuntulinux.org/RestrictedFormats
[09:38] <icarnales> where is the explanation of the "multiverse" repository? is there any?
[09:40] <spiv> icarnales: http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~mako/ubuntu-traffic/u20040924_05.html has some brief mentions of it.
[09:40] <spiv> (hooray for google :)
[09:43] <icarnales> thanx
[09:43] <muelling> I have to leave now. Thanks for your help! Bye!
[09:46] <cianid3> hello
[09:47] <LinuxJones> cianid3, hi
[10:00] <theantix> anyone have an idea why xscreensaver doesn't seem to load my screensaver?  After the interval it just blanks the screen out and ignores my selection -- but the screensavers work in preview mode
[10:02] <LinuxJones> theantix, you probably need to disable dpms in your xf86config-4 file
[10:03] <theantix> LinuxJones: thanks, will do
[10:03] <LinuxJones> sure
[10:04] <sertmann> anyone who can point me to a wiki on how to install pfa/pfm fonts?
[10:04] <sertmann> or just tell me, that would be good too
[10:04] <sertmann> :=
[10:04] <theantix> LinuxJones: I actually don't have any reference to dpms in my xfree configuration -- anything else to look out for (I rolled my own so I could have missed something)
[10:04] <Despair> urgh. gdesklets went insane and ate input. couldn't even reach a console.
[10:05] <LinuxJones> theantix, there is an option in screensavers soemwhere called blank screen only or something have a look around.
[10:05] <theantix> okay, that's a place to start looking, thanks again
[10:06] <Hatknut> does ubuntu not have libqt3c102-sqlite?
[10:07] <LinuxJones> theantix, is the mode set to blacn screen only ?
[10:07] <LinuxJones> theantix, err blank
[10:07] <theantix> LinuxJones: I don't see that option in xscreensaver
[10:08] <theantix> oh I see, under mode?  mine is set to "only one screen saver"
[10:09] <LinuxJones> theantix, I have 4 options in there
[10:09] <xutopia> anyone can tell me where I can get a resume of decisions on the artwork?
[10:10] <theantix> LinuxJones: it's not worth wasting your time, I'm sure it's just something I screwed up in my xfree file somewhere -- I'll try to get Ubuntu to recognize my card for Hoary and then the screensaver will work :-)
[10:10] <LinuxJones> theantix, heh
[10:22] <gomme> hi there
[10:25] <mirak_-> </3|I LOVE UBUNTU|</3
[10:26] <mirak_-> why did the room die??
[10:26] <theantix> maybe everyone is worn out from the meeting earlier?  :-)
[10:26] <xskoulax> its not dead, just taking a nap ;-)
[10:27] <mirak_-> haha.possibilty
[10:27] <mirak_-> was rather heated in here
[10:27] <mirak_-> I cannot read as fast as the post's were coming
[10:27] <theantix> I thought it was impressively civil
[10:27] <mirak_-> was crazy
[10:27] <mirak_-> theantix, yes it was..................just to many opinions
[10:28] <mirak_-> theantix, should have been more of an organized discussion, but I guess that is a bit hard to do in a irc chat
[10:29] <mirak_-> theantix, but I only stuck around for the first ...ehh...20m mins or so, just way to much going on
[10:29] <theantix> for a irc discussion with ~300 people on line, it was shockingly well organized :-)
[10:29] <mirak_-> theantix, yes...considering..............whas your count 300.....i have some crappy windows client (i am at work) and it doenst give me a count
[10:31] <theantix> mirak_: yeah according to xchat there were about 290-300 at that time compared to the normal ~180 (and 257 now)
[10:37] <mirak_-> theantix, kk thnx
[10:38] <baHam> rotfl c'e' un talkshow dove degli uomini dicono : EVERY WOMEN ON EARTH IS MADE TO SERVE MEN .. e le donne delirano.. rotfl
[10:38] <gomme> I can make the room alive with my question if you want... where can I find headers for 2.6.8.1-2 ?
[10:39] <gomme> it looks like it doesn't exist! :(
[10:40] <mirak_-> see...its dead
[10:40] <mirak_-> might as well go hang out in the yoper room, will all 10 non active members
[10:40] <mirak_-> with*
[10:41] <mirak_-> world wide nap time...........and im stuck at work
[10:41] <Mithrandir> gomme: install the linux-headers-2.6.8.1-2-i386 package
[10:41] <Mithrandir> (or -i686)
[10:41] <gomme> I'll try it Mithrandir thanks ^^
[10:41] <mirak_-> what is "headers"???.......just like a regular document header?
[10:41] <Mithrandir> (if you're on i386/i686)
[10:42] <Mithrandir> mirak_-: no, they're needed for compilation of various modules and such -- you usually don't need them.
[10:42] <mirak_-> mithrandir, kk........i wont worry myself
[10:44] <SmokingFire> how would I use a PC with ubuntu as router?
[10:45] <SmokingFire> and could you still browse the net from that machine? (the router)
[10:45] <xskoulax> mirak_- i wish i had your problems
[10:45] <Bentley> hi all, if I "mail -s test myuserid", I never get the mail.  on my fc2 box it works .. any idea why?
[10:45] <xskoulax> being stuck at work would be bliss
[10:46] <Bentley> SmokingFire - i think you want to look at ipchains .. and yes, you could still use the box for browsing
[10:46] <SmokingFire> ipchains
[10:46] <SmokingFire> ok will look into it, thanks Bentley
[10:46] <xskoulax> sure as hell beats being sutck without work :-(
[10:46] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, iptables might be more of what you need as well as iproute
[10:47] <SmokingFire> Ok, basically it's for broadband connection sharing but I don't want to spend $ on a seperate router.
[10:47] <gomme> well package linux-headers-2.6.8.1-2-i386 doesn't exist :'(
[10:48] <Bentley> smokingfire - do you have 2 NICs?
[10:48] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, that's fairly easy to do
[10:48] <SmokingFire> Bentley: no not at this moment but they are only 10-15 bucks
[10:49] <mirak_-> xskoulax, what is it about my problems???
[10:49] <lamont> and yes, I know the artwork isn't quite right.
[10:49] <Bentley> years ago I set up a router with iptables ... was a bit of a learning curve, but it worked really well
[10:50] <mirak_-> xskoulax, sorry, didn't read the rest, I guess it is ok, im just stuck on this darned windows box
[10:50] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, here's an easy tutorial you jsut need another network card >> http://www.linuxforum.com/linux_tutorials/5/1.php
[10:50] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: I have read about something like lin router on a disk, that could do it too?
[10:51] <mirak_-> linuxjones, could you make a wireless router with just 1 wireless nic??
[10:51] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: thanks for the link
[10:51] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, you can use firestarter to do that if you need a GUI. But really it is only 2 lines in a firewall script.
[10:51] <SmokingFire> ooh, ok
[10:52] <SmokingFire> I was thinking of perhaps using an old 386,486 that we have lying around at work.
[10:52] <Lovechild> Array test cd1 today apparently.. yay for breaking stuff
[10:53] <SmokingFire> current liveCD is any good? As I want to download and burn it for someone else.
[10:54] <Bentley> does anyone know how to send a mail to a user's local mbox with ubuntu?  I can't get it to work at all.
[10:54] <SmokingFire> Or to be sure, should I download the normal livecd?
[10:55] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, you might want to look @ smoothwalll. It's a dedicated router that runs off of cdrom
[10:55] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, smoothwall.org
[10:56] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, from the website "Designed for ease of use, SmoothWall is configured via a web-based GUI, and requires absolutely no knowledge of Linux to install or use."
[10:56] <SmokingFire> LinuxJones: thats cool.
[10:56] <LinuxJones> SmokingFire, heh you gota love Linux :)
[10:57] <SmokingFire> hardware question, 386 pc's normally don't run that hot do they?
[10:57] <Bentley> smokingfire - i used an old 386 for a router
[10:58] <SmokingFire> was thinking of disabling all ventilators. As it will just be a firewall/router.
[10:58] <neuro_> woo, smoothwall rocks :)
[10:58] <neuro_> tho i am slightly biased in that dept :>
[10:59] <xskoulax> neuro_ that bias wouldn't be development related would it?
[11:00] <guptan> Hi Room
[11:00] <guptan> Mplayer gives me an error /dev/mixer not found error, but playback continues. Though error window keep on flashing
[11:01] <SmokingFire> could how does file sharing work? I mean windows sharing, do you need to run a server for that? 
[11:02] <neuro_> SmokingFire: on ubuntu or smoothwall?
[11:02] <SmokingFire> Say have two PC's on the network and I want them to enable sharing of files. They run WIndowsXP (parent computers)
[11:02] <neuro_> if they both run xp, just enable file sharing
[11:03] <neuro_> they can use netbios broadcast over tcp to pick up each others names
[11:03] <SmokingFire> the just need a router in between?
[11:03] <SmokingFire> so a hub?
[11:03] <neuro_> if they're in the same building, yeah
[11:04] <neuro_> preferably a switch tho
[11:04] <neuro_> switches are cheap as buttons these days
[11:04] <SmokingFire> as now they are connected like this: PC1 ---router internet
[11:04] <SmokingFire>                                                           PC2 ---router internet
[11:04] <ThreeDayMonk> How does font fallback work?  I have a problem in that the default choice of font that is used for Japanese and Korean is quite ugly?
[11:04] <ThreeDayMonk> -that last ?
[11:05] <xskoulax> SmokingFire, so you have both pcs attached to router?
[11:05] <SmokingFire> couldn't a router pc with three nics (one for outside and two others for the PC's) take the role of a hub?
[11:05] <ThreeDayMonk> For example, if I select Bitsream Vera Sans as the font for GTK2 apps, it looks nice, but when there is some Korean text in Gaim, it uses an unreadable font.
[11:05] <neuro_> SmokingFire: sounds like a waste of a machine if you ask me
[11:05] <SmokingFire> xskoulax: at this moment they are attachted to a faulty router.
[11:06] <aitrus> you gonna type on all three of those connections at once, lamont?
[11:06] <neuro_> SmokingFire: plug both machines and 1 nic from router pc into a switch - that's your internal network
[11:06] <neuro_> SmokingFire: use 2nd nic to connect to outside world
[11:06] <aitrus> guess not
[11:06] <neuro_> SmokingFire: and nat between inside and outside
[11:06] <neuro_> aitrus: hehe
[11:07] <SmokingFire> ok, so need router and hub/switch.
[11:07] <SmokingFire> thanks
[11:07] <aitrus> SmokingFire: your linux box is your router
[11:07] <SmokingFire> yes
[11:07] <aitrus> (with 2 nics)
[11:07] <lamont> aitrus: nah - gonna kill X and figure out how to login without doing another network mirv-launch
[11:08] <neuro_> SmokingFire: if you have a box that routes to outside world already, you don't need to buy a router, just a switch
[11:08] <xskoulax> neuro_, his router is faulty
[11:08] <neuro_> d'oh
[11:08] <tolle> ey, if i install dbus from cvs. should i remove the ordinary dbus package first?
[11:08] <aitrus> my ISP is faulty........
[11:09] <neuro_> my isp rocks
[11:09] <SmokingFire> neuro_: the router that my parents have now is faulty. It can only work as switch at this moment, shop couldn't repair it also.
[11:09] <neuro_> then again, i am biased :>
[11:09] <neuro_> SmokingFire: okie dokie - didn't pick that up, soz :)
[11:09] <aitrus> mine likes to flush the dns and break reverse lookups so i can't connect to my remote machiens......
[11:10] <xskoulax> SmokingFire, using an old box to create a router and using a hub/switch to go between it and the internal network is prolly the best way i would imagine
[11:11] <SmokingFire> xskoulax: I was just wondering of Windows Internet Connection Sharing would also do the trick
[11:11] <stereo_> hi, i have a problem. my line-out in my imac is set to 100% and i can't reduce it. any idea?
[11:12] <neuro_> a mac!  kill it, kill it!!
[11:12] <neuro_> ... j/k
[11:12] <SmokingFire> stereo_: right click on the sound icon in they tray and choose open sound control
[11:12] <xskoulax> i think a friend of mine has set that up before, would be a good cheap solution! i think it would play nice for sharing files too
[11:13] <stereo_> SmokingFire, *g* thanks... no, it doesn't work... 
[11:13] <klein> the install cd can only see the first partition of my hd.  anyone know what's up?
[11:13] <SmokingFire> xskoulax: will thry win connection sharing first. Cheapest, parent don't care if its high tech, just needs to work.
[11:13] <stereo_> SmokingFire, it's not within the mixer.. but i see it using amix, or setmixer -V
[11:14] <aitrus> klein: what are the other partitions on that drive?
[11:14] <klein> aitrus: i've tried on 2 different computers actually
[11:15] <stereo_> SmokingFire, it's a very strange overdrive
[11:15] <klein> on the first, there's win2k on hda1
[11:15] <aitrus> klein: when you say "see" do you mean in the partitioning portion?
[11:15] <SmokingFire> stereo_: can't really help, as on my soundblaster, it works, well I think as I havn't uses line in or out yet.
[11:16] <klein> aitrus: if i open up the shell at look at /dev/disc etc, it shows the disc and part1 only
[11:16] <stereo_> SmokingFire, i'll ask the alsa people. thanks
[11:16] <klein> aitrus: the partitioner during the install can't format the partitions that are not found
[11:17] <klein> aitrus: though knoppix can, and the partition table seems to be fine
[11:17] <SmokingFire> klein: parition table perhaps corrupt?
[11:17] <SmokingFire> ooh, you already awnsered
[11:17] <fkcapa> hi
[11:17] <aitrus> klein: what did you create those partitions with if ubuntu can't see them and you want to use them?
[11:18] <SmokingFire> klein: so what does a sudo fdisk -l display?
[11:18] <klein> aitrus: well, most recently i created them with fdisk on knoppix
[11:18] <klein> SmokingFire: gimme a sec to check it out
[11:18] <aitrus> dinner... brb
[11:19] <klein> the odd thing is that it's happened on two computers exactly the same way
[11:19] <SmokingFire> klein: also ubuntu?
[11:20] <klein> SmokingFire: i've got two laptops i'm trying to switch from gentoo to ubuntu... no problems before this, but on both, only 1 partition shows using the ubuntu cd 
[11:20] <will> does anyone here use Direct Connect?
[11:20] <SmokingFire> RIAA does
[11:21] <LinuxJones> klein, did you partition those drives with Reiser v4 ?
[11:22] <klein> SmokingFire: fdisk -l looks okay... 3 partitions, one ntfs, one swap, one ext3
[11:22] <klein> LinuxJones: no, actually only ever ext3 and reiser 3... i haven't tried v4 yet
[11:22] <SmokingFire> klein: I saw on the mailinglist the command MAKEDEV /dev/<your device>, however backup first and all files that remain must be nonessential. and MAKEDEV is in capital letter and if it works, well its still just a work around, it should would out of the box.
[11:23] <klein> SmokingFire: so just /dev/MAKEDEV /dev/discs/disc0/part2 and again for part3?
[11:23] <will> how can i restart x not all of linux?
[11:24] <xskoulax> ctrl alt backspace
[11:24] <SmokingFire> aah, thats what I think but I hanv't tried it
[11:24] <klein> SmokingFire: alright, i'll give it a try
[11:24] <spiv> will: sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart; you'll probably need to logout too.
[11:25] <SmokingFire> btw its sudo MAKEDEV /dev/hda(x)
[11:25] <klein> SmokingFire: the trouble is during the install... the boot cd doesn't have the nodes
[11:26] <SmokingFire> klein: I understood but I have no idea what might be causing that.
[11:26] <klein> SmokingFire: ahh okay.  i've already got a root prompt during the install... but there's no MAKEDEV
[11:27] <SmokingFire> klein: I recommend logging a bug and asking on the mailinglist
[11:27] <SmokingFire> ooh, you are still in the install?
[11:27] <SmokingFire> Thought you were running ubuntu.
[11:27] <klein> SmokingFire: exactly
[11:27] <klein> SmokingFire: not even there yet :)
[11:28] <SmokingFire> So want to do a custom partition and only one parition shows up.
[11:28] <SmokingFire> in the custom partition
[11:29] <klein> SmokingFire: well, i can change the partition table around any way i want just fine
[11:29] <klein> SmokingFire: but if i look in /dev, there's only a node for the whole disc and for partition1
[11:29] <klein> SmokingFire: even though i've got 3 or 4 partitions in the table
[11:29] <SmokingFire> Thats after the install, ofcourse?
[11:30] <klein> SmokingFire: sorry, no, i just opened up a shell during the middle of the install
[11:30] <klein> SmokingFire: the install is at the partitioning step
[11:31] <klein> SmokingFire: the install can't proceed, as it can't format or mount any of the partitions except the first
[11:31] <SmokingFire> Ok but lets say you go to custom parition and the installer, create or delete your partition and create the mount points "/" "/home" and any others. and then just continue?
[11:31] <klein> SmokingFire: right.  it runs through a little progress bar of formating, then flashes a nasty red warning at me
[11:32] <klein> SmokingFire: "creating ext3 file system for / in partition #2 of IDE1 master (hda)..."
[11:32] <klein> SmokingFire: then "the ext3 file system creation in partition #2 of IDE1 master (hda) failed."
[11:33] <SmokingFire> klein: ok, understand better your problem
[11:33] <SmokingFire> klein: does it say why it failed?
[11:34] <klein> SmokingFire: that's verbatim what it gives me, unfortunately
[11:35] <klein> SmokingFire: 
[11:35] <SmokingFire> did you try deleting that partition and recreating it, then write changes and then reboot (maybe needs special paritiontable reinitialization?
[11:36] <klein> SmokingFire: hmm.  i've tried all that actually
[11:36] <klein> SmokingFire: i'm about to try just copying the device nodes with a different name
[11:36] <klein> SmokingFire: ahh, here's the error... "could not stat /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part2 -- no such file or directory"
[11:37] <klein> SmokingFire: "the device apparently does not exist"
[11:37] <SmokingFire> yes
[11:40] <thully> My system is freezing on resume in APM mode quite a bit - should I file a bug
[11:40] <klein> SmokingFire: well, that seems to have worked.  i just copied the part1 node to new nodes part2 and part3
[11:40] <SmokingFire> klein: this page http://www.ss64.com/bash/fdisk.html says that cfdisk (however the page is from 1998) is beter to create partitions
[11:41] <SmokingFire> klein: ok thats cool.
[11:41] <thully> ACPI works - but takes excessive amounts of battery in suspend
[11:41] <ploum> hello
[11:41] <klein> SmokingFire: hmm, may have spoken too soon
[11:41] <SmokingFire> ploum: hi
[11:41] <ploum> It seems that warty universe is a snapshot of debian sid
[11:41] <ploum> but would be hoary synchronised with Sid during the next 6 months ?
[11:42] <SmokingFire> ploum: a frozen on as I understand. 
[11:42] <Kamion> ploum: yes
[11:42] <ploum> SmokingFire, for warty yes
[11:42] <SmokingFire> ploum: Not to well known with debian but I thought universe is from sarge.
[11:42] <gotd0t> does anybody have any experience with two monitors on an ATI card?
[11:42] <Kamion> ploum: well, up to UpstreamVersionFreeze anyway
[11:42] <Kamion> SmokingFire: no, it's from sid, see the website
[11:42] <gotd0t> I can't seem to get mine working properly
[11:43] <SmokingFire> Kamion: which one is stable and which is unstable
[11:43] <Kamion> SmokingFire: specifically http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/relationship
[11:43] <Kamion> SmokingFire: unstable => sid always; currently testing => sarge, stable => woody
[11:44] <Kamion> when we finally manage to release sarge, we'll have unstable => sid, testing => etch, stable => sarge
[11:44] <neuro_> etch?
[11:44] <neuro_> oh
[11:44] <neuro_> took me a second :)
[11:44] <Kamion> the etch-a-sketch
[11:44] <SmokingFire> Kamion: Ok, I thought universe and ubuntu were based one stable woody.
[11:44] <Kamion> SmokingFire: no, not at all
[11:44] <neuro_> frozen sid 
[11:44] <gotd0t> it just mirrors the image, and I want to get it so I have usable desktop space on both monitors
[11:44] <Kamion> basing on stable would give us very little release flexibility of our own.
[11:45] <SmokingFire> so a frozen sid would be a currently testing --> sarge not?
[11:45] <xskoulax> Kamion, would sid be "still in development" then?
[11:46] <neuro_> sid's the place where stuff "always" breaks - it's a development sandbox that some people find quite usable as a "stable" install platform
[11:46] <Kamion> xskoulax: that's a common expansion but it's a retcon
[11:46] <Kamion> ("retroactive continuity", term from fandom, definition should be in some online dictionaries)
[11:46] <Kamion> xskoulax: it's actually Sid, the boy in Toy Story who tortures toys
[11:46] <xskoulax> ahhh
[11:46] <neuro_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon
[11:47] <Kamion> SmokingFire: not quite
[11:47] <Kamion> SmokingFire: Debian's rules are different from ours
[11:47] <Kamion> maybe "backronym" would be a better description of the "still in development" thing
[11:47] <neuro_> :)
[11:48] <Kimiko> 'lo
[11:48] <cristian> what about multiverse? i don't see anything on the website, what it's meaning?
[11:48] <xskoulax> its just when you were explaining the development line there, "still in development" suddenly jumped out as a possible resoning
[11:48] <Kamion> cristian: multiverse is basically non-free stuff we've imported
[11:49] <Kamion> cristian: like universe but not taken from Debian main
[11:49] <ploum> I'm ready to write documentations/articles or whatever in french for Ubuntu
[11:49] <cristian> Kamion: understood, thanks
[11:49] <ploum> But what does Ubuntu need the most ?
[11:49] <xskoulax> Kamion, thx for the info not really useful in ones day to day life but trivia never hurts ;-)
[11:49] <Kamion> ploum: might want to talk to the fledgling documentation team
[11:50] <ploum> Kamion, where can I find hem ?
[11:51] <SmokingFire> ok the relationship paragraph of the page Kamion showed me, explained it to me.
[11:51] <Kimiko> I'm currently using Debian sid and experimental. Are there any advantages to switching to Ubuntu?
[11:51] <Can0Beans> Ubuntu is pretty
[11:52] <ploum> Kimiko, not really now, but in the future yes
[11:52] <Kamion> ploum: there's stuff on the wiki I believe
[11:52] <ploum> I've converted my experimental to Ubuntu
[11:52] <Kimiko> what can I expect in the future then?
[11:52] <ploum> Well, a better integrated distro
[11:53] <ploum> I don't think there's advantages or disavantages
[11:53] <thully_> Now, it has the advantage of not being as "unstable" as unstable
[11:53] <ploum> this is simply different in the philosophy
[11:53] <SmokingFire> and more naked people backgrounds!!
[11:53] <ploum> for exemple, a tomboy package exist
[11:53] <ploum> not for Debian
[11:53] <ploum> :-)
[11:53] <thully_> And it includes wi-fi drivers for more cards
[11:53] <Can0Beans> and naked people
[11:54] <Kimiko> Debian is one of the bigger distros. Can their packages be used with Ubuntu?
[11:54] <Kimiko> lol @ naked people'
[11:54] <will> yes
[11:54] <cristian> what is the ubuntu way to compile a custom kernel? kernel-package stuff applies as in debian?
[11:54] <will> some
[11:55] <ploum> Kimiko, all debian packages are available for Ubuntu throught universe
[11:55] <Can0Beans> you run around naked with your friends and wish the kernel to compile
[11:55] <Kimiko> ah okay
[11:55] <Can0Beans> okay -- enough from me
[11:55] <ploum> Can0Beans, :-D
[11:55] <thully_> I had a network problem and got disconnected - but my original username is still connected - how do I get it back
[11:55] <ploum> Kimiko, I simply think that the Ubuntu philosophy is better for the desktop
[11:56] <Can0Beans> what is that philosophy?
[11:56] <tolle> if i am going to install dbus from cvs, should i remove the normal dbus install firsT?
[11:56] <Kimiko> a release every 6 months sounds good to me
[11:56] <mirak__> despair, are you here???
[11:56] <Kimiko> debian is rather slow in updating gnome and X packages
[11:56] <ploum> no more : "I will show you that software, my friend. Linux is great !  Oh no, the package in experimental is just broken, so I upgrade it from incoming.."
[11:56] <ploum> and your friend run away, screaming that linux is hard to use
[11:57] <Can0Beans> The release candidate I'm running kicks ass, btw
[11:58] <SmokingFire> I like ubuntu because it's easy to get, install and use. 
[11:58] <mirak__> true......very easy