lamonthppa UP 64-bit kernel (although there are 2 cpus in the machine...)12:01
lamontanyway, back to the topic at hand.12:01
=== Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kamion finally gets everything from /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/ checked into arch
KamionI'd been keeping small local diffs for far too long12:04
=== cc [~byte@byte.fedora] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
lamontKamion: heh12:09
Mitariohi guys, have any core ubuntu people taken a look at my 'updates' ideas?12:14
Kamionnow isn't really the ideal time to get lots of feedback, I suspect ... :-)12:15
Mitarioheh :)12:15
jdubthis 'less to view tar.gz files' stuff is crack12:21
mdzjdub: why? I have used it for years12:25
sabdflKamion, mdz: limi's ppc just got blessed with the rc12:26
jdubit's not something that ever occurred to me (nor worked on debian)12:26
sabdfland it used a network install to get the latest stuff12:26
jdubi did a reinstall on my ibook last night12:26
sabdflbut it's still wants the cd for apt-get update etc12:26
dokojdub: I agree ;) but you see which effect default configurations have.12:26
sabdflthat's a bug12:27
Kamionthat seems like a matter of opinion? I quite like it to be able to get packages from the CD when it can12:27
sabdflKamion: if the network is available during install, seems to me the network becomes the default12:28
Kamionnot everybody has a fast network12:28
sabdflaren't they already in a cache on the disk?12:28
Kamionno, we didn't have time to make that work properly.12:28
Kamionnot for Ship.12:28
sabdfli pointed this out as a bug before preview12:28
Kamionit's very complicated to make that work properly; I agreed with mdz to defer that12:29
Kamionwe do the archive-copier thing for Desktop only, at the moment12:29
Kamionwhich fulfils the need to not require the CD in a default installation12:30
sabdfli've no objection to the cd still being useful12:30
sabdflbut if the network is there during install, why don't we default to uncommenting that apt source?12:30
Kamionwe do, but the CD source is still there12:30
sabdflbut... then it prompts all the time12:31
Kamionthat's apt's business :-)12:31
sabdfland the usual behaviour is to install then forget about the cd12:31
sabdfli think we should comment out the cd line altogether if network was available during install12:31
Kamionthat makes the CD useless.12:31
sabdflwhich was the behaviour i thought we'd agreed to12:31
sabdflKamion: it's useful for those who want to use it12:31
jdubsabdfl: forever, or just for the install?12:32
sabdflit's useful for those who have no network12:32
sabdfljdub: not sure i understand?12:32
Kamionthey have to go and uncomment it again in sources.list, or else grovel about with dpkg12:32
Kamionmaybe a sources.list reordering would suffice?12:32
sabdflKamion: how will reordering affect things?12:32
Kamiondunno, just throwing out the idea12:32
KamionI think apt should get a grip and if the CD isn't inserted just go to the network rather than prompting12:33
sabdflthat's not something we can get right for warty12:33
sabdflbut commenting in or out we can12:33
Kamionthis sort of sources.list hackery is also quite fragile ...12:33
sabdflmdz: need your input12:33
Kamionthe last couple of changes we made created bugs, as I recall12:33
sabdflthis is a wtf?? bug12:33
jdubsabdfl: asking if the cdrom line should be disabled forever if they have network, or only for the life of the install, so they're not prompted for it immediately.12:34
mdzsabdfl: ok12:34
Kamionjdub: they're never prompted for it immediately12:34
Kamionthis is "do you want your CD to be insta-transformed into a coaster?"12:34
sabdfljdub: i think it should be disabled post-install if we verified they could see the network repositories12:35
mdzsabdfl: regarding the cache thing?12:35
jdubKamion: they're prompted for it as soon as the second stage install starts (this is the bug)12:35
Kamionjdub: huh?12:35
sabdflKamion: i've never used a cd more than once for an install, and user comments the other day suggest that's the common case12:35
Kamionjdub: surely not?12:35
mdzsabdfl: or ordering sources.list?12:35
sabdfljdub: no, i don't think they are12:35
Kamionjdub: that's very different from what sabdfl just claimed12:35
sabdflmdz: not the cache12:35
jdubis it?12:36
sabdflmdz: does ordering apt sources.list affect the outcome of an update request?12:36
Kamionjdub: sabdfl's talking about apt operations after the install is complete12:36
mdzsabdfl: "sort of"12:36
sabdflmdz: ok, then i think we need to update the way the sources.list looks post install12:36
jdubon my installs, if i elect to pull updates from the network,12:36
sabdflif we verified that the machine could see the network archive then the cdrom should be commented out12:36
mdzit more or less affects the order in which the package records happen to be stored in apt's database12:36
sabdfland the network should be enabled12:37
jdubi'm propted to put the cd in when it's apt-get updating12:37
mdzwhich coincidentally happens to cause it to prefer one over the other12:37
mdzif you reorder the lines in an existing sources.list, though, that doesn't really work12:37
Kamionjdub: that's a bug, and not one I've seen for weeks12:37
sabdfljdub: hmm... that's definitely a bug12:37
lamontwhat about just making the CD's absense a warning instead of fatal?12:37
mdzit's sort of an accidental feature12:37
sabdfllamont: affects synaptic, aptitude.... etc12:37
jdubKamion: i'll double-verify it now12:37
mdzjdub: apt-get _update_?12:37
Kamionlamont: on update, it is12:37
mdzthat never touches the CD12:37
mdzCDs are only scanned by apt-cdrom12:38
Kamionjdub: there was a brief bug where the three packages base-config installs before the rest of the second stage weren't on the CD, so it prompted for those12:38
Kamionjdub: but I fixed that a while back12:38
sabdflKamion: i think the explanatory text in sources.list above the cdrom entry can explain how and why a user would re-enable that12:38
jdubKamion: that could be it, i'll try now12:38
Kamionsabdfl: does that show up in synaptic?12:38
sabdfljdub: you using rc?12:38
mdzKamion: no12:38
sabdflKamion: the cd prompt? yes12:38
mdz(the comments in sources.list)12:39
jdubi used a daily last night12:39
Kamionsabdfl: no, "the explanatory text in sources.list above the cdrom entry"12:39
sabdflKamion: no, good point12:39
sabdflbut i think it's clear that it's referring to a cdrom12:39
Kamionjdub: I happen to be trying with a daily now for other reasons12:39
Kamionwell, if mdz is happy with some more dodgy shell in base-config ...12:39
mdzI think the right solution is to leave it as-is, but allow it to fall back from the CD to the network if the user doesn't put the CD in12:39
sabdflmdz: how?12:40
Kamionmdz: that's what I thought would be most reasonable behaviour12:40
mdzsabdfl: patch apt12:40
Kamionso if you're on a slow network you can put the CD in and it'll use that opportunistically12:40
jdubmdz: agree (the endless "i really want the cd!" prompts are annoying)12:40
sabdfli'd much rather be changing the shell that comments / uncomments sources.list than apt right now12:40
mdzjdub: yeah, I never really realized that it did that until Ubuntu12:40
Kamionsabdfl: remember that base-config changes can't be fixed on upgrades12:40
mdzI mean, who uses CDs?12:40
sabdflKamion: but source.list can't be meddled with on upgrades either, right?12:41
mdzKamion: this can't be fixed on an upgrade anyway12:41
Kamionbase-config changes are really persistent and really hard to undo from now on if we decide we made a mistake12:41
lamontmdz: only living breathing ones.12:41
Kamionmdz: yes it can, as soon as apt's patched, existing installations will stop asking for the CD12:41
Kamionsabdfl: ^-12:41
mdzKamion: right, sources.list can't be modified on upgrade I mean12:41
sabdflapt is deeeep voodoo12:41
Kamionsabdfl: we employ the apt maintainer, it can't be that bad :)12:42
sabdfland just because the witchdoctor is at hand doesn't mean it's where we should fix it :-)12:42
KamionI think apt is exactly the *right* place for the fix12:42
Kamionit benefits far more people that way12:42
sabdflKamion: agreed, but balance that against the risk of a mess12:42
Kamion"my sources.list got screwed up on a fresh install of warty"12:43
jdubi'll call HR, see if i can find the apt maintainer12:43
elmosabdfl: fwiw, if mdz thinks he can fix it, I actually think that's less risk than base-config hacks at this stage12:43
mdzthe media change stuff is not _that_ hairy12:43
elmojdub: har har, go on call Jane at 10 to midnight, dare you12:44
mdznot that I particularly want to take responsibility for fixing this at this late hour :-P12:44
elmodon't worry, she only sends out the pay checks, I'm sure yours won't get lost ;-)12:44
Kamionsounds like "if further records for this package are available, don't emit media change message"12:44
mdzKamion: s/$/ again/12:45
mdzneeds to keep some new state, etc. not entirely trivial12:45
KamionI'll fix base-config if need be, but I'm concerned that we're regarding base-config changes as automatically lower risk than other things, when in fact they're often hairy changes to hard-to-understand code whose effects persist for a long time12:46
mdzseems to me the simplest way to fix this for Warty is to leave the stuff in the cache12:46
Kamionmdz: which stuff?12:46
mdzKamion: the .debs copied from the CD12:46
Kamionwe want to zap the .debs used to install desktop12:46
Kamionthey're a huge space-sucker12:47
mdzbut we can leave the rest12:47
mdznon-trivial, but low-risk12:47
Kamionthat's a change to archive-copier and a rather easier change to base-config12:47
mdzthe worst we do is waste some disk space if we err in one direction, or prompt for the CD if we err in the other direction12:47
sabdflKamion: mdz, i need to switch away but please ping me if you decide not to go ahead with a fix for this12:47
mdzsabdfl: this is very important to you?12:48
mdzfor Warty?L12:48
sabdflmdz: i think it's terrible user experience to prompt for the cd *every time*12:48
mdzsabdfl: it's only for a very small number of packages12:48
sabdflhow so?12:48
mdzonly packages which are in ShipSeed12:49
sabdfland if we reordered the sources.list?12:49
mdzif we reordered sources.list, it would fetch everything from the network unless it was down12:49
sabdfland if network was down, and it was a cd package, *then* it would prompt for the cd?12:49
mdzcurrently, it fetches ShipSeed from the CD and everything else from the network in the default case12:50
mdzsabdfl: I _think_ so12:50
mdzI know it falls back from one network source to another, but the CD stuff is a little different12:50
sabdfldeep voodoo indeed12:50
Kamionmdz: (which I thought was desirable behaviour - less network usage)12:50
mdzand I don't use it myself12:50
Kamionleaving the packages in the cache means that apt won't prompt unless you've done 'apt-get clean' or equivalent at some point12:50
sabdflok, because most users won't12:50
Kamionis there a big synaptic button for "clean cache" that users are likely to press?12:50
sabdflif that's the solution it's fine with me12:50
mdzmy take is that the simple stopgap is to seed the cache, and the long-term solution is to fix apt12:51
sabdfli really think we should take the cd out of sources.list altogether by default12:51
sabdflship list is for expert users in any event12:51
mdzKamion: even if we do it by using a copy of ShipSeed in base-config, that's actually fairly reasonable12:51
Kamionmdz: there's an easier way, but yeah12:52
mdzsabdfl: it's a FAQ, though12:52
mdz"how do I get on the network with this crazy module I need to compile"?12:52
Kamionsabdfl: only in the same way as anything not in desktop is for expert users12:52
sabdflbecause build-essential is in ship not desktop12:52
mdzand linux-headers12:52
sabdflso at this terribly late stage in the game can we make a small trade?12:53
sabdflbuild-essential in exchange for banishing the cd prompt?12:53
sabdflis jdub listening?12:53
sabdflguess so :-)12:53
sabdflok, then no trade, please just banish the cd prompt if at all possible12:54
=== Kamion goes to change archive-copier to forestall madder hacks :)
Kamionassuming this is acceptable:12:55
Kamion23:51 < mdz> my take is that the simple stopgap is to seed the cache, and the long-term solution is to fix apt12:55
sabdflfine by me if it will banish the cd prompt unless the user has done the apt-cache clean thing12:57
mdzsounds good12:58
Kamionbelieve so; I'll test tonight12:58
mdzI wonder if synaptic automatically prunes the apt cache12:58
Kamioncandidate changes already made12:59
sabdflKamion: wow12:59
sabdflthanks guys01:00
Kamionhm, can anyone test Greek on i386 for me? somebody claims it doesn't work, but it works for me ...01:00
KamionI'll mail the diffs to mdz for ack01:00
mdzKamion: I can "test" greek01:01
mdzmeaning I can tell you if the machine catches fire01:01
elmowhat crack is this mplayer stuff?01:01
elmoit produces mplayer-$ARCH named packages?01:01
Kamionmdz: about as much as I can do; you can probably also tell me if what base-config displays looks like Greek text or garbage01:02
mdzelmo: yes, optimised builds01:02
Kamionelmo: I thought it was mplayer-386, mplayer-586, etc.01:03
mdzit used to be necessary because it couldn't do runtime CPU detection01:03
mdzbut I think they fixed that01:03
mdzand marillat just continues to do them01:03
Kamionmdz: synaptic pruning> hope not, if so we'll have to back up and try something else01:03
elmofor christ's sakes01:03
mdzKamion: checking it now01:03
Kamionmdz: (this is #2379, btw)01:03
=== Lovechild [~dnielsen@] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
mdzKamion: default is to leave all packages in the cache01:04
mdzsame as with apt-get01:04
Kamionmdz: awesome01:04
=== sladen would like to have have everything on the CD that wasn't installed copied to the APT cache directory
sladenand/or local on-disk archive (this would allow removing the reference to the install CD from sources.list)01:18
Kamionsladen: the latter's planned for Hoary, but requires some thought about the best way to allow a user to clean it up to save disk space01:19
Kamionit really should be considered a cache, but if you just blow away a local on-disk archive, apt will complain that it's missing01:20
Kamionah, good, the 'apt-get clean' equivalent is buried in Synaptic -> Preferences -> Temporary Files01:20
Kamionjdub: current daily definitely doesn't require the CD here; if it does for you, shout quickly01:21
jdubnup, just got past that myself01:22
jdubstage 1 was very zippy01:22
Kamiongood good01:22
Kamionit'll slow down a bit by copying Ship, but can't be helped01:22
Kamionand default disk space requirements will go up, but conveniently I never got round to reducing them after I made archive-copier stop copying Ship :-)01:23
Kamionso the docs'll still be accurate01:23
Kamionlo, my procrastination has been vindicated01:24
=== Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionmdz: multiple CD builds on a single day shouldn't require you to set DATE_SUFFIX any more01:25
=== mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sladenKamion: indeed, and if they go along with the ``automatically update my system'' during startup, then the point of the cache/archive is nullified since there's bound to be a newer version of 90% of the stuff01:38
Kamionsladen: not once we release, there isn't, not for six months01:39
Kamion(modulo the odd security update)01:39
sladenthis is a valid point...01:40
Kamionmdz: #2507, important to fix? it does seem to apply to us01:41
mdzKamion: is it as trivial as it looks?01:42
mdzit's not critical, but nice-to-have-if-it's-safe01:43
lamontmdz: mplayer now d-w: libdivxdecore0, which is not delivered by any source in the archive...01:43
Kamionmdz: I don't know what that lt.l4 link is about01:43
Kamionthe rest (and indeed that) seems entirely safe to me01:43
Kamiononly affects udebs01:44
mdzas long as it doesn't ftbfs, seems safe to me01:44
mdzso feel free01:44
mdzlamont: is that not what we just synched?01:45
lamontno, we sync'd libxvidcore4 or some such01:45
Kamionmdz: hrm. involves another initrd build, though ...01:48
mdzKamion: if you're not already planning to do another one, we can let it go01:49
KamionI'm not, currently; I'll make the change in my local tree and mark it UNRELEASED01:49
mdzlamont: please track down whatever we need and get it into multiverse and ensure that mplayer builds01:52
lamontmdz: roger01:52
=== markoni [marko_tasi@P1-221-20005.dialup.ns.ac.yu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdz eyes the assignedto field of #2509
mdzthe user must have helpfully typed some substring of narayannewton@gmail.com01:58
Kamionmdz: grr02:00
mdzKamion: what does a low mem install change?02:01
Kamionall sorts of stuff; it basically disables internationalisation IIRC02:01
Kamion(along with other things)02:01
Kamionselecting a Portuguese keyboard seems to work for me02:02
KamionI admit that I haven't really tested lowmem installs of Ubuntu much02:03
sivangdoes anybodu know why "Computer"-->"Disks" gives me the computer:/// vfolder?02:08
mdzsivang: yes02:09
mdzbecause that is what it is supposed to do02:09
sivangmdz : why not call it "computer" ?02:10
mdzsivang: Computer->Computer?02:10
Kamion<mdz> /nick scotty02:10
sivangmdz : hhmm.. right. Well, I'll just explain this on the manual..that you can access the Computer VF from Computer->Disks02:11
mdzsivang: I think that people who know what the computer:/// vfolder is will not look in the documentation :-)02:11
jdubsivang: no point explaining mechanics02:12
sivangmdz : well, you're probably right..:) I'll just mention it there for those who don't 02:12
=== hornbeck_ [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jdub"where do i get access to my disks?"02:12
jdub"Computer > Disks"02:12
sivangjdub : I'm just following what already the gnome user guide (2.8) has02:13
lamontseeds just pull in depends, not recommends, yes?02:16
mdzlamont: correct02:17
=== lamont needs to rehash the liveCD mainmod to be desktop seed, rather than the long list of laundry it is today.
mdzlamont: any testing feedback for the live CD, apart from me?02:19
lamontyou and amu, that's about it.02:19
mdzlamont: did you ask for testing on ubuntu-users?02:22
elmoheh, do we have a bug asking for 2.6.9 yet?02:22
lamonthaven't sent mail, want to try fixing alsa first - have a fix from alex02:22
jdubelmo: don't encourage them. :)02:27
mdzbase warty is 234M, not bad at all02:28
=== __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzhmm, that was with a full apt- cache actually02:34
mdzso a bit less :-)02:34
sabdflmdz: have given jdub a rundown on the final artwork decision02:36
mdzfor a moment there I thought you said you gave him a rubdown02:36
sabdflseems appropriate :-)02:36
sabdfli'll put up final gdm themes on my chinstrap home dir for testing02:36
sabdfljdub is qorking (!) up the calendar ackages02:37
sabdflif those test ok then upload them02:37
sabdflwe'll probably want to do a final rev because i'll want to weigh in on the package descriptions02:37
jdubsabdfl: i'm going to tidy up the gdm theme xml02:37
sabdflas in tidy -indent?02:38
jdubxmllint --format + brain tidying02:38
sabdfljdub: ok, please document any additional changes for me to catch up on, because diff will break on the lint02:39
=== sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Riddell [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sabdflok, mdz, how does it look that we can make a final build some time tomorrow morning your time?02:47
sabdflcalendar package descriptions won't affect the cd, it won't be on the cd02:48
sabdflso i'm done w.r.t. cd changes02:48
sabdflpromise :-)02:48
=== hornbeck_ [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
sabdflmdz: ping ^02:51
=== hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Verlassend"]
=== justdave [~dave@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzsabdfl: that sounds fine02:54
mdzsabdfl: all pending updates are in02:54
sabdflexcept the theme, gnomesplash, and artwork-minus-calendar02:54
mdzsabdfl: so you decided not to put the calendar on the CD at all?02:55
hornbecknice inotify in Hoary!02:55
mdzsabdfl: we need to come up with a name for the semi-official embedded warty I'm going to publish, since I need it for my gateway box02:57
=== Kamion goes to test archive-copier/base-config change
mdz"uUbuntu", while cute, is neither pronounceable nor typable02:57
vorlon.. bah, that didn't work. but yeah, mubuntu :)02:58
vorlonthere we go, buntu02:58
mdznot bad02:58
sabdflelmo: alive?02:59
danielsfabbione: not really03:01
mdzKamion: how are you going about it?03:02
mdzKamion: removing debs for packages which are already installed?03:02
mdzI guess removing everything with an ubuntu-{base,desktop} task would do03:02
lifelessif I compose those, my terminal shows them wonky, until they go from the edit line in irssi into the scrollback.03:07
lifelessno idea where my mu is03:07
tsengcould you stop that03:07
sabdflmjg59: around03:09
lifelessthats the one03:09
jdubmdz: nanubuntu03:09
lifelessI just dunno the keyboard shortcut to do it.03:10
jdubplus you can make mork and mindy jokes03:10
sabdflhmm... we should also have a nannybuntu, for mid-west / mid-east viewers03:10
vorlonlifeless: <compose>m+u03:10
lamontmdz: building a new liveCD candidate for you: updated sound detection (we hope...), and slight changes to look more like base/supported seeds03:10
lifelessI'll piss tseng off again, wouldn't want bad karma 03:11
sabdfllifeless: try the right hand alt, and m03:11
mdzlamont: ok03:11
vorlon... I didn't mean you needed to test it in the channel more...03:11
lifelessthats right-alt m.03:11
lifelessvorlon: unless I hit enter, I can't actually see it !?03:11
jdubsabdfl: we aussies don't have compose set up by default. we don't speak no other englishes.03:11
sabdflnight all03:11
mdzsabdfl: night03:12
=== vorlon waves
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== tseng peaks in at mono
lamontvorlon: I don't have a key labeled 'compose'03:13
lamonttseng: missing anything, I wonder?03:13
tsengah nice, gtk-sharp made it this time03:13
tsengso monodoc should succeed on ppc, x86 next go around03:13
tsengand then with any luck the apps will build.03:14
jdub"I have to admit that I find the black girl somewhat erotically arousing,03:14
jdubbecause you can see the fleshy base of her mammary and I am hardwired as03:14
jdubit were to be visually stimulated by such things."03:14
lamonttseng: monodoc is arch: all only?03:14
tsengwell it deps on gtk-sharp03:15
tsengwhich is only built on x86 ppc so far03:15
lamontmono doesn't list amd64 in the control file, so no build happiness there.  But mono is 32-bit only, yes?03:16
tsengso far03:16
tsengthe short answer is yes.03:16
jdubthe long answer is always 'maybe', which is indeed longer than 'yes'.03:17
=== lamont slaps jdub with a cold trout
vorlonlamont: no?  Mine looks slightly like a pull-down menu with a mouse pointer on it :-)03:18
tsenghm whats going on with muine03:18
tsengjdub: the long answer is more of a "sortof kindof"03:19
lamontvorlon: where, that's my question???03:19
tsengAfter installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied:03:20
tsenglibgtk-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) libgconf-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) libgnome-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99)03:20
tsengSource-dependencies not satisfied; skipping muine03:20
tsengi see said the blind man.03:21
mdz...as he picked up his hammer and sawa03:22
mdzsaw, even03:22
danielsjdub: aren't we all?03:23
vorlonlamont: on my keymap, the menu key is a compose key.  I think I'm running a keymap that vaguely resembles the stock Debian dvorak X layout, but I could be wrong...03:25
lifelessmenu key ?03:26
mdzthe one with a little picture of a drop-down menu03:26
mdzon a 104-key keyboard03:26
vorlonon 104/105-key "Microsoft" keyboards.03:26
lifelessoh right,03:26
lifelessI have it, it generates '9~'03:27
vorlon#include "bitchy-rant-about-not-being-able-to-find-a-good-105-key-anymore.h"03:27
lifelesswithout the quotes03:27
lifelessjust superglue an old good one to your laptop ?03:27
=== lifeless kicks off a regression test run, and goes to stretch legs
mdzI can get ubuntu down to about 130M without any trouble03:29
mdzshould fit nicely on a 256M CF03:29
lifelesswith jffs2 it should go way further down03:30
mdzI'm using jffs2 currently, and I'm sick of it03:31
mdzit doesn't support shared writable mmap, and it takes about 15 minutes to do its boot-time consistency check03:31
mdzI'm told the latter may be fixed in 2.603:31
mdzbut the former makes apt unusable, which is rather inconvenient03:31
lamontmdz: people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-02/warty-live-i386.iso03:32
mdzlamont: any point in trying to rsync against the last one?03:33
mdzassuming no03:34
mdzlamont: that image is 688,728,064 bytes03:34
mdz650M = 681574400 bytes03:34
lamontmdz: no, not really03:34
lamontit turns to crap with the compressed image.03:34
=== lamont thought CD's were 700MB...
lamontor must I prune?03:35
mdzsome of them are03:35
mdzsome are not03:35
lamont_mine_ all are... :-)03:35
lamontprune to 650MB?03:35
mdzthe CDs we will be pressing are not :-P03:35
=== lamont will prune
=== mdz cancels the download
jdubwonder what the price difference is03:37
danielswarioware is eeeevviiiil.03:38
lamontmdz: what should be the first piece of desktop to go *poof*??03:38
lamontemacs21 would get me back under the size limit.. :-)03:39
chrisaRemove emacs, add vim-gnome03:40
lamontmdz: alien and friends can go, yes?03:40
jdublamont: (some of those winfoss things are total crack)03:40
lamontjdub: which ones, and I'll prune the tarball03:41
jdublamont: (i'm not going to claim final call on that, but it's an option)03:41
=== lamont thinks they're all crack, but that's just my anti-windoze bias showing...
lamontcelestia strikes me as fluff03:43
jdub2.6.9 looks boring03:43
jdubnot much change03:43
jdublet's ship it!03:43
jdubsometimes "no" gets boring03:44
lamontabiword  audacity  celestia  firefox  gimp  openoffice  pdfcreator  thunderbird03:44
lamontpick some03:44
jdubwell, we don't even ship celestia03:44
mdzlamont: ttf-baekmuk?03:44
lamontwe kinda depricated abiword, didn't we?03:44
mdzthat might get you below the limit by itself03:44
lamontmdz: cool03:45
jdubno, abiword is just in supported03:45
mdzthere are several big font packages03:45
lamont   <!-- <packagereq>ttf-baekmuk</packagereq> DOESN'T FIT-->03:45
mdzsorry, Korea :-(03:46
mdzsomeone has to take one for the team03:46
mdzwe could remove lsb and libc6-dev03:47
mdzthat might do it too03:47
chrisalamont: abiword and pdfcreator03:47
lamontpdfcreateor is useful, though... celestia is fluff03:47
lamontmdz: trying one with ttf-baekmuk gone03:47
lamontstripping lsb will strip ubuntu-desktop, btw03:48
mdzlamont: what's this:  abiword  audacity  celestia  firefox  gimp  openoffice  pdfcreator  thunderbird03:48
lamontthat's the windoze apps that are on the CD uncompressed03:48
lamontI think abiword and celestia might make it so that korea doesn't have to take one for the team03:48
mdzwe definitely want abiword03:49
lamontfor windows?03:49
mdzcelestia seems a bit esoteric03:49
mdzbut that'd have to go through Mark03:49
lamont720     disctree/celestia03:49
lamont11968   programs/celestia03:49
lamontI could strip it for now.  Or Korea could be helpful03:50
jdubmight be best to concentrate on smaller live-cd-not-required things03:50
lamontjdub: OK.03:50
lamonttest build without korea fonts running, eta 30 min...03:50
chrisaPoor .kr03:51
lamontsigh.  home machine filled up.  Guess I have to remove some old ISO's. :-)03:52
jdublamont: got that morphix grub thingy handy?03:54
jdublamont: what order are the arrows in the bottom left?03:54
jdubdown up or up down?03:54
lamontsec - gotta reboot03:55
jdubjust check the image... :)03:55
jdubif you're rebooting for this, don't03:56
Kamionmdz: no, much easier than that03:56
jdubbut if you're rebooting otherwise, go right ahead03:56
lamontuh, what arrows?03:56
jdubin the pcx03:56
jdubdown the bottom left03:56
jdubthere are some bits of stuff03:56
jdubtwo arrow buttons03:56
lamontthere's boot optoins and such, but I see no buttons03:56
mdzKamion: don't keep me in suspense :-)03:56
jdublamont: not on the boot screen, on the image itself03:57
Kamionmdz: we just move stuff at different times03:57
Kamionmdz: mail on its way to you now03:57
mdzjdub: what do you mean by smaller live-cd-not-required things?03:57
Kamiontested, works for me03:57
lamontjdub: left one up, right one down.03:58
jdubmdz: stupid shit you wouldn't need on a live cd; lamont mentioned alien03:58
jdublamont: rock, thanks03:58
lamontubuntu-desktop pulls in alien03:58
mdzjdub: why wouldn't you need alien?03:58
mdzlamont: alien is required by lsb03:58
Kamionnot sure I see the absolute requirement to have ubuntu-desktop03:58
jdubon the live cd?03:58
Kamionit's not like you're going to be upgrading this, which is basically what u-d is for03:59
mdzjdub: morphix live CDs use an overlay filesystem, so you can install things03:59
lamontjust added it because it was in the seed...03:59
lamontlikewise, we could drop synaptic and friends, no?  But probably shouldn't.03:59
mdzno, for the same reason03:59
Kamionubuntu-desktop depends on everything in the seed :)03:59
lamontjust not from http repositories on this CD.03:59
jdubdoesn't seem like we should bother supporting that too much04:00
mdzjdub: we shouldn't break it for the sake of ~2M04:00
lamontI'm happy calling http repositories an errata item for the liveCD. (caused we think by the funky FS hooks and sockets...)04:00
jdubmdz: alien was an example, i'm sure there are other things that are less useful on a livecd04:00
jdublamont: want a new grub thingy?04:01
lamontyes, please04:01
mdzif you look at the live CD as a demo + rescue environment, pretty much everything is useful04:01
Kamionthat's tiny anyway04:03
Kamionhm, no it's not04:03
lamontI'd be more inclined to nuke that than korea...04:03
lamontdoes xscreensaver-gl buy us enough to justify?04:04
lamontand libc6-i686 has potential...04:05
=== azrail [~azrail@vectra.csh.rit.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontmdz: fwiw, the last several CD's have been too large...04:06
azrailquestion: I am looking to add a package to the ubuntu tree, whom do I talk to about doing such04:06
Kamionazrail: I meant the ubuntu-devel mailing list.04:07
Kamionazrail: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com04:07
azrailKamion, blargh.04:07
lamontjdub: you sending me that image, or did my spam blocks take it?04:08
lamontdaniels: for my clueless brain... there's a program somewhere in the x-pile that just reads keycodes and dumps their values to stdout.... What is it?04:10
jdublamont: one sec04:10
jdublamont: xev04:11
danielslamont: xev, yah04:12
jdubtseng: yayayayaayya!04:14
=== jdub dances around like kermit the frog
lamontjdub: why so?04:14
mdzlamont: run dpigs on it04:15
mdzdpigs -100 -s /livecd/var/lib/dpkg/status04:15
lamontdropping ttf didn't do squat04:15
lamontyou mean dpkgs?04:17
lamontor where does dpigs come from?04:18
lamont126784 openoffice.org-bin04:19
lamont36096 emacs21-common04:19
lamont28896 openoffice.org04:19
lamont28604 evolution04:19
lamont28156 gnome-applets-data04:19
jdubthey're crap, rip 'em all out04:20
chrisaI vote emacs21-common leaves04:20
lamontactually, ubuntu-desktop pulled in ttf-baekmuk.  time for it to die.04:22
lamont23 minutes04:23
lamontjdub: timer is gonna be brown on brown...04:24
jdublamont: isn't that what the little white line is for?04:25
lamontmaybe. dunno04:25
=== jdub tinks it is
=== lamont builds
=== lamont builds the home edition with the new artwork.
=== jamesh [~james@203-59-213-254.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamont-rw-r--r--    1 root     buildd   676261888 Oct 19 03:41 warty-live-i386.iso04:42
lamontthat better?04:42
mdzKamion: still here?04:45
mdzlamont: yes04:46
lamontmdz: people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-03/warty-live-i386.iso04:47
lamontjdub: does mono deliver a jdk04:49
lamontmdz et al: downloading?04:53
Kamionmdz: yes04:53
lamontjdub: this also has the new grub screen04:53
lamontmdz: I couldn't find divxdecode0 anywhere, but did see some comments about dealing with divx better in the vidxcore package, so I'm going to try building mplayer without it...04:56
mdzjamesh: heh, I just assumed that that drag-search-result-to-the-trash thing actually worked with the original trashcan04:59
jameshmdz: nope.04:59
mdzlamont: don't you mean libdivxdecore0?05:00
lamontmdz: yeah. that one05:00
mdzlamont: you're sure you didn't search for 'decode' rather than 'decore'?05:00
mdzgoogle finds many references05:00
lamont99% certain...  yea, but no nice pretty debian packages that I could find.,05:00
mdzdivx4linux (1:5.0.1-1) unstable; urgency=low05:01
mdz  * New upstream release.05:01
mdz -- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org>  Sat, 27 Apr 2002 14:34:55 +020005:01
mdz_very first hit_05:01
lamontsigh.  saw that was clearly an email, ignored it..05:01
=== lamont should read more
mdzit wasn't an email05:02
mdzit was a directory index05:02
lamontsearching for libdivxdecore0?05:02
lamontIndex of doc/...?05:03
mdzlook in changelog, find source package name, search for <source package name> dsc, find source package05:03
lamontand go see mowgli, eh?05:04
mdzthe man-cub05:05
lamontGuess I should test build it before I request the sync, eh?05:05
lamontmdz: except that said source doesn't produce libdivxdecore005:08
=== lamont searches more
fabbionemorning guys05:11
lamontmdz: no joy here.05:13
lamontand mplayer apperas to be missing a builddep on xmms05:14
chrisaeh? mplayer shouldn't need xmms to build05:16
lamontcc: /usr/lib/libxmms.so.1: No such file or directory05:17
lamontconfigure ... --enable-xmms 05:18
Kamionmdz: uploaded05:22
=== hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKamion: does that require an initrd update?05:37
Kamionmdz: no05:38
Kamionroughly speaking only udebs needed up to and including "Loading installer components from CD" are in the initrd05:38
Kamionanyway, long past my bedtime05:40
lamont Log for successful build of mplayer05:44
lamontmdz: so... interesting thing...05:44
lamontif you take the source package in our archive, and you say 'dpkg-buildpackage -S', you get a source package without the libdivxdecore0 Build-Dep05:45
lamontso, can I upload?05:45
mdzlamont: fascinating05:46
Kamionmdz: oh, before I go, did I understand sabdfl correctly earlier that he wants a final-candidate warty build tomorrow morning your time?05:47
lamontthere are 4 debian/control files, and one of them gets copied into debian/control during debian/rules clean05:49
lamontmplayer uploaded.05:51
lamontthe crowd may cheer.05:51
lamontnow then, about java...05:51
lamontwhat should I install on my wife's computer?05:51
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontso do we correct the people who call it 4.1?05:54
lamontjdub: was that grubscreen supposed to have different bands of color in the climbing timer?05:55
Kamionlamont: I've been doing so when I can be bothered05:55
lamontKamion: it won't be to significant until 5.10 > 5.04 > 5.1 :-)05:56
=== lamont points jdub (and whoever) at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/jdub-grub.jpg
lamontshould it look like that.  I mean, the bars are kinda unique on the countdown clock... Just wondering if it was intentional.06:06
lamontsigh.  libc_5.4.46-15 bootstrapped.06:28
lamontas did libdb_1.85.406:28
lamontso did anyone download & boot 20041019-03?06:35
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== lamont pokes mdz
lamontSubject: mplayer_1.0-pre5-0.6ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW06:41
=== lamont looks around for katie...
lamontbecause apparently "mplayer" != "mplayer"06:41
=== lamont sleeps
fabbionemdz: still around?07:03
mdzlamont: back07:14
mdzgarage door repair was needed07:14
mdzKamion: he said "tomorrow"07:14
mdzKamion: it was not clear whether he meant yours+his or mine07:14
fabbionemdz: you got email :P07:16
mdzs/email/MORE email/07:17
fabbioneno no.. when you get mail from me, they are always full of love :P07:20
=== fabbione needs to swap 2 workstations really soon
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== SuperL4g [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
SuperL4gDid I hear right that there was going to be some big discussion today about the artwork?07:42
jdublamont: weird07:59
jdublamont: i thought they were in the right spot for the arrows08:00
jdubSuperLag: that was on #ubuntu much earlier08:00
=== tix [~ryan@80.185.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbione2516 to 252108:28
=== Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has left #ubuntu-devel []
fabbione11. Pressed PowerPC and AMD65 CDs Available08:47
fabbioneAMD65 <--!!!08:47
fabbioneit must be cool :P08:48
=== justdave [~dave@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jamesh_ [~james@203-59-18-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== drobitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has left #ubuntu-devel []
Mithrandirfabbione: I guess they counted the nx bit as well, or something. :P09:28
Mithrandirfabbione: xfree doesn't put anything in /usr/X11R6/lib32, does it?09:34
Mithrandir(on amd64)09:34
fabbioneonly {whatever}/lib09:34
Mithrandiryeah, good09:34
=== sivang [~sg@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangmorning all09:46
Keybukglslideshow is a *bad* screensaver10:07
sivangKeybuk : why bad?10:07
KeybukI fed it the directory with all my digital camera albums in it10:08
Keybukand then I sit and stare at it for hours going "ooh, I remember that"10:08
jdubit seems to use gobloads of cpu, despite using gl10:08
Keybukjdub: really?  it doesn't for me10:09
jdubi should try again on my desktop10:10
=== jdub goes to do ubuntu presnetation
Keybukdoesn't use enough to seriously appear in top10:10
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiHi seb12810:46
seb128hey pitti 10:48
=== carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lifeless_ [~robertc@dsl-] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbionedaniels: ping11:40
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
enricoHello all11:49
__danielhai enrico11:50
=== Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionoops, I broke the daily CD build script12:44
Kamionfixing ...12:44
=== seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-5-230.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittiKamion: is that the reason why there are still no dailys available for today?12:46
pittiKamion: I'd like to test today's 12:46
Kamionpitti: yes12:46
Kamiontoday's is building now12:46
pittioh fine12:46
KamionI noticed when I also tried to test today's :)12:46
Kamionfallout from the attempt to make multiple cron.daily invocations on the same day work12:47
pittiKamion: it's still the "old" artwork, right?12:47
Kamionkinda surprised I didn't get cronmail about the failure, though12:47
Kamionpitti: I've no idea if the new artwork has been uploaded yet; I haven't got to warty-changes in my mail-reading yet12:47
pittiKamion: I read it, no changes until now12:48
pittiKamion: I'm just not sure whether this must be changed in artwork or in /etc/skel, base-config or whatever12:48
Kamionjust ubuntu-artwork (and possibly friends) as far as I know.12:52
KamionI really hope base-config doesn't need to be changed, since that would directly imply that we weren't fixing things properly on upgrade.12:53
sabdflKamion: do you know if jdub uploaded new artwork, gdm and calendar pkgs last night?01:01
Kamionsabdfl: apparently not01:03
sabdfl'k thanks01:04
KamionI'll do a new CD build the moment I see them hit the archive01:04
sabdflbtw, limi's ppc build last night said "Debian/warty" or something like that in MacOS disk info01:05
=== kylem_ [~kyle@CPE0030ab0b413b-CM023469906297.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionpitti: new images up01:09
Kamionsabdfl: that's odd, I thought it had been Ubuntu/warty forever01:09
pittiKamion: thanks! Sucking them now...01:09
KamionVolume id: Ubuntu 4.10 ppc Bin-101:10
mjg59sabdfl: You were looking for me last night?01:10
Kamionoh, it'll be the HFS volid, not the ISO9660 one01:10
Kamion./tools/boot/warty/boot-powerpc:echo -n " -part -no-desktop -hfs-bless CD$N/install -hfs-volid Debian/PowerPC_${CODENAME} " \01:11
Kamionsabdfl: fixed, thanks01:11
sabdfl:-) you're welcome01:11
sabdflKamion: have you been drinking your merging potion?01:12
Kamionfor post-warty?01:12
sabdfli hope yo mama dropped you in it when you was a little boy, and it had a permanent effect01:12
Kamioncurrently here <------------------------> post-warty <-> the moon :-)01:12
sabdflit's getting the 1st 200 km that hurts, trust me01:13
Kamionbut yeah, I suspect I will be knee-deep in d-i merging for some time01:13
mjg59We now stand a decent chance of some amount of StR functionality on most hardware for Hoary - it's getting that last bit that's going to be nasty01:14
mjg59Suspend to Ram01:14
sabdflnasty? this is what we do before breakfast :-)01:14
sabdflmjg59: please could you help elmo register buntu.(com/net/org) for us? i've no idea of the idn foo required01:15
Kamionmdz: do you want me to upload jigit, or are you on it?01:15
mjg59We're at the point where most hardware either wakes up to a good approximation of properly, or blows up immediately01:16
mjg59sabdfl: You want xn--buntu-7be.(com/net) - .org doesn't do IDN yet01:16
sabdflliterally xn--buntu-7be?01:17
mjg59The nc40xx series seems to be firmly in the blows up immediately camp01:17
mjg59sabdfl: Yup01:17
Kamionpunycode is funky (in the RUN AWAY sense)01:17
sabdflwhy didnt they just use utf8?01:17
mjg59DNS doesn't support 8-bit streams01:17
mjg59Or, rather, there are limites on what can go in an A record01:17
sabdflmjg59: who on earth runs dns over anything else?01:18
mjg59Not all of ascii is valid, either01:18
mjg59You basically get alphanumerics and -01:18
vorlonthe DNS RFCs strictly define the set of allowed chars in DNS records, and they felt they couldn't afford to break interop with existing implementations.01:18
vorlonApparently not everybody on the Internet runs bind9 on Debian, bah.01:19
vorloncut 'em loose, I say ;)01:19
Kamionthe requirements draft puts it a little more strongly :-)01:19
Kamion[1]  The DNS is essential to the entire Internet. Therefore, the service01:19
KamionMUST NOT damage present DNS protocol interoperability. It MUST make the01:19
Kamionminimum number of changes to existing protocols on all layers of the01:19
Kamionstack. It MUST continue to allow any system anywhere to resolve any01:19
Kamioninternationalized domain name.01:19
mjg59Kamion: Do you still have that bastard evil VIA laptop?01:20
Kamionmjg59: yes01:21
mjg59Can I grab that off you at some point?01:21
Kamionmjg59: the C3? sure, I can drop it over today01:21
mjg59I /think/ it'll probably suspend/resume now01:22
Kamionis this with 2.6.9?01:22
mjg59Plus a couple more patches01:22
mjg59There were a couple of problems - firstly, the kernel was writing a virtual address to the wakeup register, not a physical one01:23
Kamionwould you prefer it with or without a working install of something?01:23
mjg59All I need is a kernel, bash, and scp01:23
KamionI'll give you a full install then, less effort01:24
fabbioneKamion: ping me when ready to test the new iso's :-)01:25
mjg59Cool, thanks01:25
Kamionfabbione: any particular new ISOs?01:25
mjg59Ooh. ntfs support is getting closer to file creation/deletion01:26
fabbioneKamion: the one that will be final tomrrow? ;)01:26
Kamionfabbione: I'm sure it won't be silent here :)01:26
vorlonmjg59: hmm, there's actually been progress on that?01:27
mjg59vorlon: There's code for inode allocation/deallocation now01:28
vorlonlast I asked, I was told that it *probably* wouldn't blow anything up as long as I was writing to an existing file whose size I didn't need to change. ;)01:28
Kamionnow somebody please make parted support NTFS :)01:28
mjg59But yeah, the only safe thing is not to change the size yet01:28
vorlondoesn't it already?  Are we still using ntfsresize from partman?01:29
sabdflmjg59: is StR going to basically require custom voodoo for each separate laptop?01:31
Kamionvorlon: the latter, AFAIK01:34
Kamion(Ubuntu isn't even doing that, because the change arrived late in our freeze period and it's a very scary change.)01:35
mjg59sabdfl: In the long run, no01:35
=== vorlon could probably be induced to add ntfs support to parted post-sarge.
pittijamesh: I read in your blog that you are working on fancy panel icons for mounted devices, right?01:36
=== Kamion makes note to send vorlon a few gallons of caipirinha
vorlonafter all, it's just not right for there to be a Windows-related technology that I haven't touched from Linux. :)01:36
pittijamesh: bug #980 is about that, can I assign it to you?01:37
vorlonack, wait, this means I have to learn C# too, nooooo01:37
jameshpitti: I'm looking.01:37
mjg59sabdfl: We still need to solve the video reinitialisation problem01:37
=== martink [~chatzilla@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mjg59But other than that, the problems are going to be down to individual drivers that do the wrong thing01:38
sabdflhey apparently there's a linux distribution that only runs perl01:38
mjg59Fixing most of those drivers is easy, but there's a lot of grunt work involved01:38
sabdflwe should ask them if they want to do it as a derivative01:38
vorlonwhat, like, init=/usr/bin/perl?01:38
sabdfl"pubuntu" :-)01:38
jameshpitti: sure.  Go ahead01:39
pittijamesh: thanks.01:39
jameshpitti: if you are interested, a snapshot of my code is here: http://www.gnome.org/~jamesh/drivemount-new-20041014.tar.gz01:40
pittijamesh: nice! How is it installed, is it kind of a daemon?01:41
pittijamesh: so just run the program in the background?01:41
jameshpitti: at the moment it is just an application.01:41
jameshpitti: the plan is to replace the old drivemount applet with that code.01:41
=== |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jameshpitti: It is using the same APIs as Nautilus to list, mount and unmount volumes01:42
jameshso when I tell it to unmount the cdrom drive, Nautilus closes all the open windows for that volume too.01:42
pittijamesh: so gnome-vfs2; sounds sane01:42
pittijamesh: and the "current" one uses its own stuff?01:43
pittijamesh: nice, then it should automatically use pmount01:43
jameshpitti: the current one just calls mount and umount01:43
jameshpitti: which also means that it can't unmount any volume with a trash directory (because of the dnotify watches)01:43
pittijamesh: btw, I think this is the same with gnome-volume-manager; it shouldn't need an extra pmount patch, but it does ATM01:43
pittioh, right01:44
jameshpitti: my new code worked flawlessly on Ubuntu with the USB keys I tried01:44
jameshso yes, it is working with pmount properly01:46
pittijamesh: just tried it01:46
pittijamesh: works nice!01:46
pittijamesh: and as an applet this will be integrated into the panel, I guess01:46
pittijamesh: it's just a little disturbing to see five identical icons :-)01:47
jameshpitti: it is asking gnome-vfs for the icon names, actually.01:47
pittijamesh: I saw that the names appear as bubble help01:48
jameshpitti: so if gnome-vfs provided different icon names, the applet would display different icons :)01:48
pittijamesh: maybe Hoary's call can tell the drive types apart and we have different symbols for USB keys01:48
pittijamesh: s/call/hal/01:48
pittijamesh: I think I have seen sth about this on some utopia list01:48
sjoerdgnome-vfs+hal icons are a lot nicer01:49
jameshpitti: on Fedora there is an updfstab program (part of kudzu), and it uses the product names to guess the device type01:50
jameshpitti: it isn't perfect though, since if it doesn't find a matching entry in the config file, it sometimes doesn't end up mounting the drive ...01:50
jamesh(whereas the same USB key just works on Ubuntu)01:51
pittinice to hear :-)01:51
pittialthough I still get far too many "my drive is not mounted" bugs01:51
pittialthough most of them are now kernel bugs01:51
jameshthe Fedora code also tries to classify different mass storage devices (eg. if it is a camera)01:52
pittijamesh: hmm, g-v-m should take care of that in U01:52
jameshwhich can really only be done by matching product names01:53
pittijamesh: we currently use the presence of a dcim/ folder01:53
pittijamesh: quite hackish, but works well so far01:53
pittijamesh: plug in a camera, see gthumb automatically open01:53
jameshpitti: that also has the benefit that if you pull the memory card out of a camera and plug it into a card reader, it treats it the same as plugging in the camera.01:54
pittijamesh: right01:54
pittijamesh: a friend of mine was pretty impressed as he saw this work with his pcmcia card reader :-)01:55
jameshso even when it misdetects something as a camera, it provides an option that the user probably wants :)01:55
lamontanyone test http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-03/warty-live-i386.iso  yet?02:17
fabbionelamont: downloading now02:26
fabbionei guess rsync is not worth...02:26
lamontrsync is useless for this02:27
fabbioneETA 40 min02:27
fabbioneat what time is the meeting today?02:31
fabbione16:00 UTC?02:31
thomuh, what meeting?02:31
fabbioneTech Board02:31
fabbioneyeah it's at 16 UTC02:32
=== kylem_ is now known as kylem
=== lamont must drive children too school. back in about 90 minutes
fabbionei need some extra crack :-)02:35
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has left #ubuntu-devel []
danielsfour and a half hours?02:36
KamionETA 3:08; sigh02:36
=== daniels decides that staying up for TB is an impossibility.
danielsthom: wanna pick me up from the airport at 5:25? :P02:36
thomno, not really :P02:36
danielsi seem to bring all the red-eyes02:37
=== daniels kicks IE in the nads.
danielsXP and IE are horrific.  and I haven't got the softmodem working on the X40, and our USB ACM support is broken. yay!02:39
fabbionedaniels: you want to take a look at 060_02:40
fabbionedaniels: and probably push it upstream02:40
=== daniels stares at IE's SSL support.
danielsfabbione: yeah02:40
daniels(so-called 'support')02:40
danielsfabbione: will do02:41
fabbionedaniels: i am talking about X.org02:42
fabbionenot Xfree8602:42
fabbioneall the manpages where missing info :P02:42
fabbionejust small details..02:42
danielsfabbione: huh?02:43
danielsfabbione: are you saying you want me to push xfree86's #060 upstream?02:43
danielsok ...02:43
fabbionei said push my 060 from X.org to X.org02:43
danielsis that in the xsf tree?02:43
fabbionecommitted 2 minutes ago02:44
danielscan you please put it up on rookery or something?02:44
danielsi'm on dialup here02:44
fabbionedaniels: sure02:44
fabbionedaniels: people/~fabbione/060_fix_XOrgManDefs.diff02:45
danielsthanks dude02:45
fabbionedaniels: XORGRELSTRING is never defined02:46
fabbionesame as the other one02:46
fabbioneand the way in which the string is built is generally wrong02:46
fabbionethat's a simple fix02:46
fabbionebut there are better than that one02:46
fabbionejust don't ask me to do one NOW02:46
danielsfabbione: ah thanks, I'll commit that02:47
fabbionecheck it first :-)02:47
fabbionejust see man pages ike security._man02:48
fabbioneor X.Org02:48
fabbioneand see how it changes with that patch02:48
danielsyeahRSE, I HATE XP02:50
danielsoh my god, go away. ARGH!02:50
daniels'you're obviously blind.  would you lie me to read everything aloud?')02:51
mjg59daniels: ?02:55
danielsmjg59: seemingly, every time I press something, the frigging Narrator dialog box comes up (well, THREE of them)02:56
danielsand I've had about 4 other a11y-related things pop upa t me02:56
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
lamontfabbione: word?03:57
fabbionelamont: ?03:59
fabbioneoh right!04:00
fabbionei forgot to burn it :P04:00
=== Mithrandir chuckles
fabbionelamont: doing it now.. sorry.. got sucked in X.org documentation04:00
fabbioneat least that package is almost done04:01
lamontKamion: 1659 - so hwclock.sh should modprobe rtc, eh?04:01
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has left #ubuntu-devel []
fabbionelamont: i can still read "welcome to MOrphix"04:33
=== fabbione-live [~warty@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbione-livewell it boots :)04:36
fabbione-livebut it`s odd because the fb goes up to 1600x120004:36
fabbione-liveX no04:36
fabbione-livehmm we can do better for hoary04:38
lamontfabbione-live: where is the 'Welcome to Morphix"?04:39
lamontwhich screen, that is.04:39
fabbione-liveat the boot04:39
fabbione-livebefore it switches to fb mobe04:40
lamontah, ok.04:40
lamontnot the grub splash, and not the fb-mode stuff, but rather that short amount of text inbetween.04:40
lamontmdz awake yet?04:43
=== pitti [~martin@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbione-livelamont: is there anything special you want me to test?04:45
lamontfabbione-live: well, everything.  But prior to asking on ubuntu-users, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't process-b0rked. (bulk download here would take over a day, or cost me money...)04:46
lamontand still take 6 hours04:46
fabbione-livewell... the games work <g>04:47
fabbione-livehmmm interesting04:49
fabbione-liveit uses automatically a swap if it finds it04:49
=== lamont is reminded of the good old days, when he got paid to play rogue
fabbione-livethat means that if i suspend to disk using the swap partition i will lose my session04:49
lamontI expect so04:50
fabbione-livelamont: is there any option available for the user to avoid it?04:53
fabbione-livethe grub session is simply too fast to have the time to read04:53
lamontfabbione-live:  dunno04:54
=== x4m [~max@68.157-200-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== fabbione-live [~warty@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
lamonthit a key during that 5 second window04:56
=== lamont grabs bugzilla and beats it against the wall
fabbionelamont: the problem is that sometimes my screen takes more than 5 secs to sync the freq04:59
fabbioneand i can barely see the grub stuff04:59
lamontfabbione: you need a better screen, obviously. :-)04:59
lamontreboot, pause a few seconds, and then begin a rythmic tattoo on the shift key05:00
fabbioneany preferred song to follow?05:00
lamontshave and a hair cut is too short.. :_)05:01
lamontsomething with a good beat, obviously.05:01
fabbioneyou know.. Metallica might lead to the BIOS error: "Error detecting the keyboard. Please press F1 to boot"05:01
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionlamont: maybe only on architectures that have it, or maybe hwclock itself should do it in the code paths where it's about to access /dev/rtc05:28
lamontKamion: could blindly modprobe it though, yes?05:30
Kamions' probably OK, I think I'd be more comfortable with doing it only when it's needed05:31
Kamion(powerpc doesn't have rtc, wouldn't want to generate bogus error output there)05:31
Kamionbut whatever flies :)05:31
sabdflKamion: any sign of those artwork packages?05:35
Kamionsabdfl: nothing on warty-changes05:37
=== T-Bone [varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== sivang [~sg@] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== AndyFitz [~andy@] has left #ubuntu-devel []
T-Boneevening ;)05:53
mdzKamion: go ahead with jigit, you're best equipped to know when it's ready05:53
fabbionehey mdz05:56
Kamionyerk, we don't have wdiff in main?05:56
fabbionemdz: please discard my last mail05:56
Kamionmdz: ok, looking at it now05:56
pittimeeting time06:00
=== x4m [~max@246.154-136-217.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pittimdz: sabdfl wants you in #u-meeting06:06
=== [Clint] [~c123p456@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-1-168.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lucas_Hi, I need some help understanding the Ubuntu install process to fix a broken installation.06:43
lucas_After the reboot, how does the installer determines the packages he has to install ?06:43
lucas_(and which module of the installer does this work ?)06:43
daniel_lunchlucas_, i guess it's the ubuntu-*-packages it installs06:47
__danielbut i'm no ubuntu developer06:47
lucas_root@dell ~ # dpkg -l ubuntu-*-packages06:48
lucas_Aucun paquet ne correspond  ubuntu-*-packages.06:48
thombsae-config is the package that does the work after the first reboot06:49
__danieldpkg -l | grep ^"ii  ubuntu" ---> ubuntu-artwork, ubuntu-base, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-sounds06:49
lucas_I don't understand why dpkg -l ubuntu-* fails to list them06:50
__danielbecause it literally looks for "ubuntu-*"06:50
=== maarf [~ob@165.80-203-182.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Keybuklucas_: dselect update06:51
__danielubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-base should imho suffice06:51
T-Bonelucas_: maybe 'dpkg -l "ubuntu-*"'06:51
lucas___daniel:               dpkg -l | --list package-name-pattern ...06:51
lucas_                  List packages matching given pattern.06:51
T-Bonewith the quotes06:51
T-Boneotherwise your shell expands the "*"06:52
lucas_T-Bone: I thought of that06:52
T-Bonebut i guess that's more a #ubuntu discussion06:52
lucas_I'll install ubuntu-desktop, thanks06:52
lucas_yeah, now it is :)06:52
__danielT-Bone, i didnt want to leave it unanswered06:53
lucas_(btw dpkg -l "ubuntu-*" is still broken. never mind.)06:54
T-Bone[varenet@daffy ~] $ dpkg -l "ubuntu-*" | grep ii06:55
T-Boneii  ubuntu-artwork 0.2.11-1       Ubuntu themes and artwork06:55
Keybuklucas_: dselect update06:55
lucas_Keybuk: did it06:55
lucas_ok, found the problem06:56
Keybukyou should be able to dpkg -l on available but not installed then06:56
lucas_wrong xterm06:56
lucas_I just won the price06:56
=== lucas_ is going to ban himself from #ubuntu-devel for the next few months ;)
=== lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-1-168.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== michiel_ [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== michiel_ [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Bezig]
=== Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
elmohas anyone had any problems with postgres and HT?07:29
elmo(does anyone even use postgres in warty with a HT machine?)07:29
=== Keybuk warms rookery up a little *cackle*
=== daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== T-Bone is now known as T-Gone
sivangelmo : do you want someone to use it ? :)07:58
sivangelmo : I'll install it right away if you need07:58
Kamionpeople have confirmed ipw2100/ipw2200 to work in the installer, haven't they?07:58
=== Kamion eyes http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport
mdzlamont: so, live CD08:04
mdzlamont: what has changed since last night?08:04
mdzKamion: they have?08:04
mdzit appeared in the list, but I didn't actually test bringing it up08:04
mdzI'll do that in my next test08:04
sabdflKamion: ipw2200 is still busted on the test laptop, but stays busted even with a compile of the latest module and firmware08:06
sabdflbizarrely it did work at one stage but i haven't had the bandwidth to keep up08:06
lamontmdz: 20041019-03 had the newest kernel, -ttf-baekmuk.  20041019-18 is +ttf-bakemuk -win.celestia08:07
mdzlamont: what about the sound issue?08:07
mdzOct 18 18:11:00 <lamont>        mdz: building a new liveCD candidate for you: updated sound detection (we hope...), and slight changes to look more like base/supported seeds08:07
mdzlamont: was that 1019-03?08:07
lamontso it's pester alex time08:08
=== inklingx [~inklingx@u212-239-167-156.adsl.pi.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontbut not in IM. :-(08:08
makoare we goig to need another release announcment?08:09
makoi think the delta from the RC announcment will be relatively small08:10
lamontmdz: But I'd like to push 1019-03 to ubuntu-users for exposure, with the caveat that sound is likely busted08:10
mdzlamont: absolutely, you said you were doing that last night08:10
mdzmako: yes, we are08:10
mdzsabdfl: should we hype up the final release announcement a bit, now that it's not vapour?08:10
lamontmdz: was waiting for a boot check, got that this AM, wondered if anyone wanted to review the mail to u-u before I sent it...08:10
mdzhmm, we're in DWN this week08:11
mdzdue to this: http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html?start=2408:11
Kamionseb128: gataxx is still broken on amd64; I've got it network-connected now so I'm trying to debug08:13
makoit was a pretty good writeup08:13
makoi'm glad DWN picked it up :)08:14
lamontKamion: can you fix the iso/bt info?  looks like Thom got the wrong image...08:14
makoazeem: good work sir :)08:14
mdzmako: agreed08:14
Kamionlamont: no, he didn't put it on little08:14
lamontit's on cdimage.08:15
Kamionlamont: which means it will very likely be deleted next cdimage sync08:15
Kamionlamont: cdimage == auckland08:15
lamontyou want to put it on little and sync?08:15
lamontor is that really a thombot thing?08:15
seb128Kamion: still segfault ?08:15
Kamionyup, grabbing now08:15
seb128weird I've tested the fix on an amd64 box it was ok08:16
Kamionseb128: right08:16
Kamionlamont: what's broken with the image again?08:16
lamontyou mean known bugs?08:16
lamontthe image he grabbed won't fit on a 650MB CD.08:16
Kamionlamont: no, "fix the iso/bt info" <-- that08:16
Kamionoh, I just need to refresh it?08:16
lamontmight not hurt to give it some more version-ish infrastreucture than sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386.iso, too.08:17
Kamionyup, I'll give it the same filename you did08:17
Kamionwon't bother with anything more involved for this08:17
=== lamont updates his announcement
mdzlamont: acpid is not running on the live CD08:19
mdzthat means no totally rad laptop support08:19
thomlamont: i got the one you told me to08:19
lamontthom:yeah, I screwed up the symlink08:19
lamontmdz: is that RC?08:19
thomputting it on little will be the best bet going forward08:19
Kamionthom: did you exclude /sounder-test/live/ from syncage or something?08:20
mdzlamont: not a showstopper, but it should be on the list08:20
KamionI did a sync-mirrors but it doesn't seem to be appearing08:20
lamontmdz: right08:20
lamontbut this sync means that I can drop the ttf-baekmuk issue08:21
Kamiongtk_gridboard_clear_pixmaps (widget=0x607d20) at gtkgridboard.c:53008:21
Kamion530                             gridboard->pixmaps[x] [y] =get_pixmap_num(EMPTY);08:21
Kamionseb128: ^-08:21
thomKamion: it's probably root owned08:22
thomone sec08:22
Kamionseb128: gridboard->pixmaps[x]  is NULL08:22
lamontmdz: I could just file bugs for some of them...  do we have a LiveCD component yet?08:22
mdzlamont: just file them against whatever and assign to alextreme08:22
mdzlamont: did you verify that -celestia +ttf-baekmuk was <=650M?08:22
seb128Kamion: you have the crash when you run it ?08:23
Kamionseb128: yes08:23
thomKamion: ownership changed08:23
Kamionseb128: you called the patch .crash08:23
seb128Kamion: I've named the patch .crash instead of .patch08:23
seb128Kamion: I'll fix it now08:24
=== Kamion does a test build to verify
seb128still a time to do an upload ?08:24
KamionTrying patch debian/patches/01_gridboard.patch at level 0...1...2...failure.08:24
Kamionmdz: does seb128 have time?08:24
Kamionseb128: you missed out a leading space from the 'for' line08:26
seb128yeah, I've fixed it here08:27
amulamont: new iso is ready ? 08:27
seb128ready to upload if we have time08:27
Kamionseb128: I'd just go, don't think new artwork has been uploaded anyway08:27
amu...live-iso 08:27
lamontmdz: yes.08:28
lamontmdz: issue was I had a bad symlink, and thom fetched the wrong iso.  hence explicit naming is a good thing,.08:28
seb128Kamion: ok08:28
Kamionthom: syncing again08:28
=== sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
lamontamu: as soon as kamion/thom get done with it, it'll be at   http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386-20041019-18.iso.torrent08:29
lamont(or without the .torrent)08:29
lamontamu: how's your overall bandwidth situation?08:29
Kamionlamont,amu: done, with .torrent08:29
lamontnet bandwidth08:29
Kamionseb128: works for me with those changes08:30
seb128ok, cool08:30
amuok d'l ... takes 30min.08:30
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzamu: lamont mentioned you had compiled a list of live CD issues, could you send me a copy?08:34
amumdz: a very quick & dirty thing, i tested it from the view as a user. There are many many more things :)      08:36
seb128mdz: still time for the gnome-games fixe ?08:36
mdzseb128: bug#?08:36
Kamionseb128: #234508:37
Kamionmdz: ^-08:37
Kamionpatch wasn't applied properly08:37
seb128mdz: it's closed, I've missnamed the .patch and it didn't get applied08:37
mdzseb128: ok, quickly08:37
amumdz: send08:39
mdzamu: I haven't received anything via email, but lamont gave me a summary on IRC08:44
lamontmdz: those were the RC bugs I gave you..08:45
mdzthat's all I'm interested in at this time08:45
lamontok.  just forwarded amu's mail to @a.n08:46
amuOct 19 20:40:42 bofh postfix/smtp[14768] : BBA518632A: to=<mdz@canonical.com>, relay=fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com[] , delay=2, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 35238B6801B)08:46
lamontjust in case you want to upgrade any of them08:46
pittisjoerd: easy fix, he was not in the plugdev group :-)08:47
sjoerdpitti: ah08:47
=== lamont must run a quick errand. bbiab
amumdz: you need more input for hoary ?08:52
mdzamu: ?08:53
amubug ( usability ) reports 08:54
sivangi get rejected by tracker error when trying to download lamont08:54
mdzamu: warty is our highest priority right now08:54
sivang's new iso08:54
amumdz: did you get my mail now ? 08:54
sivanganybody a clue?08:54
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 13 (count 'em) major bugs | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is TOMORROW
mdzamu: no08:56
amumdz: stange, my log told me, it's delivered, kick your postmaster *g* 08:57
mdzamu: there are 4 hops between your relay and me08:59
amu..ooO my homenet 09:00
=== enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivanghi enrico!09:00
makoenrico: hey there09:01
enricosivang: hello!09:01
sivangenrico : finally got my network working09:01
=== gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
gmaanybody had any experiences of getting black screens when running X on a dell laptop? even my old (working) config file doesn't seem to make any difference09:05
gma(otherwise, I'm a new user and love it)09:05
gmaI plugged a monitor into my laptop and could get X working fine, so it might be something to do with the 1400x1050 TFT.09:07
gmaI'm asking on here as I thought some of you guys might be interested in more info, which I'd happily provide if you told me what needs doing. the laptop is a few years old though (inspiron 5000), so may not be a priority for warty...09:08
=== chrisa|dl [~chris@freedom.cis.ohio-state.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== madduck [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
madduckhi... can someone tell me why http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaintainerCandidates is "immutable"?09:09
madducki wanted to add myself...09:09
sivangmadduck : have you created a login?09:10
sivangmadduck : you need to create a wiki name / login before09:10
chrisa|dlWhat does ubuntu use in place of debian's 'menu' package?09:10
madduckokay. makes sense. i missed the tiny buttons on the top.09:10
sivangmadduck : I'm sure it happend to everyone at start :)09:11
=== ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
sivangany of the desktop gurus, has the app switcher thingy that used to exist on the right upper corner been custumized removed from Ubuntu Desktop?09:12
sivang(i can't find it)09:12
chrisa|dlIt's called "Window Selector" isn't it?09:13
sivangyes it is09:13
sivangsorry for that09:13
chrisa|dlheh, your turn. I notice applications like gvim seem to get no menu entry09:13
enricomako: around?09:16
thomchrisa|dl: yes, we're trying to keep the number of things in the menu as minimal as possible09:17
chrisa|dlthom: I figured as much09:18
chrisa|dlIt never occurred to me that gnome seems to lack a simple menu editting interface09:18
pittichrisa|dl: what about applications:///09:22
=== gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
makoenrico: yes, i'm around09:38
makoenrico: was taking a shower :)09:38
Kamionmdz: I've uploaded jigit. OK to add to Supported?09:46
Kamionit's managed to grab an ISO correctly for me09:46
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKamion: yes09:55
=== doogie [~adam@brown.brainfood.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== doogie looks for ubuntu developers/maintainers who are also debian maintainers
=== jvw [jeroen@233pc233.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== braindmg [~guillem@braindmg.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
thomcrikey, it's the #debian-devel invasion10:05
doogiethat's not the reason I joined.10:05
thomno, but the grouping was scary :-)10:06
doogieyou're on #debian-devel, so can see my messages10:06
thomdoogie: there are quite a number of ubuntu maintainers who are d-ds10:06
doogieyes, I know.10:07
=== maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
amu$"%$!$! I need once a time a year a printer, exactly then it does not run10:10
Kamionmdz: did Keybuk tell you what he was doing with his ubuntu-artwork packages?10:17
mdzKamion: no10:18
mdzis he asleep?10:18
Kamionapparently so10:18
=== lamont returns
=== Kamion is tempted to ring him and try to wake him up
Kamion19:55 < Keybuk> right, I'm going to crash10:18
Kamion19:56 -!- Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com]  has quit ["Leaving"] 10:18
seb128"  * prepared and uploaded new ubuntu-artwork package"10:19
seb128perhaps the upload got rejected ?10:20
Kamionmust have done ...10:21
chrisaDoes ubuntu have something similar to packages.debian.org?10:21
lamontchrisa: not exactly...10:21
Kamionit *seems* to be in chinstrap:~scott/10:22
=== Kamion ponders dputting that, but I think I should test it first :)
chrisalamont: hrm, any easy way to check if a package is in the archive without having apt handy?10:22
lamonthttp://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists has wanna-build dumps10:22
lamontand the log files are under buildLogs/....10:22
doogieis there a list of all existing ubuntu maintainers?10:22
lamontdoogie: dunno if that's on the wiki yet or not10:23
doogiewhy would it be on a wiki?10:23
lamontbecause everything else is?10:23
Kamionwe have nowhere else convenient to put it :)10:23
doogielink from the website?10:24
=== asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
Kamionthe wiki is where we do this sort of thing10:25
lamontchrisa: the w-b output is, of course, by source package10:32
amulamont: http://amu.debian.net/tmp/linux.png10:33
lamontamu: ew10:35
lamontdid anyone see my mail to ubuntu-users?10:35
=== asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lamont considers the day when his mail server won't require a keyboard
=== Kamion gets in touch with Keybuk; I'll take care of the u-a upload, since I now know what to do
makohow about a minimum system req faq entry10:40
=== Kamion promises not to fall victim to the ubuntu-artwork falling-asleep curse :)
enricoAbout the Wiki: can I make hierarchical wiki links in this MoinMoin?  If yes, what is the syntax?10:40
makoenrico: you can make pages with /'s in them10:41
enricomako: So, a link like Foo/Bar will work and be regognized?10:41
makoenrico: yes, if you do the link specification stuff10:41
enricomako: k, thanks!10:42
chrisaSo if ubuntu took a snapshot of sid to start out before applying package modifications and such, how are credits with the original debian package maintainers handled?10:42
Kamionchrisa: can you clarify what you mean?10:43
chrisaKamion: I think I answered my own question by looking in the buildd logs. I was curious how the Maintainer: field was being handled on packages taken from sid10:46
chrisaLooks like Warty/${ARCH} Build Daemon becomes the maintainer10:47
lamontchrisa: see also the Maintainer field on any non-maintainer-uploaded arch in debian10:49
chrisalamont: yeah, that was silly of me10:49
Kamionchrisa: not quite ...10:50
Kamionchrisa: Maintainer: in debian/control != Maintainer: in .changes files10:50
Kamionchrisa: we leave the former alone10:50
chrisaKamion: As lamont pointed out, I misread ;)10:50
Kamionchrisa: the latter always refers to the entity handling the upload, not the package maintainer10:50
Kamionok :)10:50
chrisaSo 'technically' I maintain some ubuntu packages till someone else updates them ;)10:51
lamontchrisa: even then, you maintain them.10:51
lamontubuntu doesn't really have a concept of an individual owning a piece of codde10:52
Kamionwe add ourselves to the top of debian/changelog, so Changed-By: differs, but apart from that ...10:52
lamonthence we don't mess with debian/control's maintainer: field10:52
chrisaPerhaps I'm misunderstanding how ubuntu snapshots sid then10:52
Kamionwe take a copy of all sid's source packages10:53
lamontchrisa: for warty, it was "take a snapshot of all the source packages, as of 2004-06-28.  Now build them from source to produce binaries".10:53
=== asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
chrisaah, so it's something that will occur again in the future10:53
=== Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
chrisaI was thinking it behaved more like a fork for some reason10:54
lamontwell, hoary needs to take the latest sid + warty diffs.  the best technical/time-effective way to do that is still the subject of a little discussion10:54
chrisaLast stupid question, is multiverse part of universe?10:55
lamontso the base for release N is current sid, with the diffs from release N-1 merged in.10:55
lamontmultiverse is beyond universe10:55
chrisalamont: That clears that up, thanks10:55
lamontthank you Robert A Heinlein.10:55
lamontmultiverse was the term he coined to include a multitude of universes.10:55
lamontso universe is the rest of debian main, multiverse contains things from contrib & non-free, and possibly others10:56
chrisaSo for instance, the recent mplayer upload is in multiverse10:56
lamontfor instance.10:57
Kamionthom: around? need help uploading10:57
thomKamion: um?10:57
Kamionthom: there's a half-complete copy of ubuntu-artwork in the upload queue, which I can't overwrite10:57
thomk, just gonna delete the lot10:58
chrisaKamion / lamont: thanks10:59
Kamionthom: thanks10:59
Kamionsabdfl: new artwork uploaded and hopefully building10:59
lamontchrisa: np10:59
sabdflKamion: whoop! thanks10:59
mdzKamion: aha, thanks11:00
lamontKamion: and you made the :00 cutoff, too.11:00
thomlooks like scott uploaded a deb as well, and that make katie throw her toys out of the pram11:00
Kamionthom: ah ... that explains it11:01
thomuh, s/make/made11:01
thomme spoke english real good. can do tenses 11:01
Kamionyou it learn from a book!11:01
lamontthom: tentses11:02
Kamion<JAG> rjk: are you getting bored of filling in all the sections of11:02
KamionComponent Build mails? ;-)11:02
Kamion<rjk> i find your use of the present tense puzzling11:02
Kamion<JAG> Oh dear.  Which tenses do you know?11:02
=== __daniel laugh hardly
thomlamont: are those like toeses?11:02
lamontthom: you sleeps in tentses11:02
lamontyou stands on toeses11:02
thomKamion: *giggle*11:02
lamontKamion: lol11:03
enricoWhat installation methods are supported for Ubuntu?  From CD, from Network, from USB key, from floppy, from magnetic tape, from windows installshield and... ?11:04
Kamionenrico: CD, network, and we sort of support cross-installing from another Unix system with debootstrap11:05
KamionUSB key definitely for Hoary, maybe floppy too11:05
enricoKamion: "sort of support" means that it shouldn't be documented, I guess?11:06
Kamionwell, no, I believe it works and the documentation is useful11:06
Kamionthere's no time to change the installation manual further for warty, BTW11:06
enricoKamion: don't worry, I'm not going to do that11:07
Kamionit's part of the debian-installer package, and rebuilding that is human-time-expensive11:07
enricoKamion: I was just taking notes for a quickstart guide11:07
enricoKamion: that can reference the install guide for more info11:07
Kamionwhen I say "sort of support" I just mean that I haven't tested it all the way through to bringing up an Ubuntu desktop11:07
Kamionthe first stage certainly works11:07
Kamionit may require tweaking post-install, though, since it won't do everything that our d-i does.11:08
Kamionthom: do you have any idea about the firefox/j2sdk questions being asked on #ubuntu?11:08
enricoKamion: I'll leave out the debootstrap for those notes, then.  The idea (as I posted to the list) is to have a quickstart that guides you all the way to subscribing to ubuntu-users, or ubuntu-welcome if we want11:09
Kamionlamont: your mail's made it through now11:09
Kamionenrico: we already have one of those, on the web site11:09
enricoKamion: Plus a troubleshooting part11:09
chrisacrud, the installer didn't recognize any of the partitions on my WD 120GB drive (showed it as one volume, no partitions)11:09
enricoKamion: link?11:09
chrisaThere goes that idea11:09
lamontKamion: amazing what plugging in a keyboard will do for that server. :(11:09
enricoKamion: thanks!11:09
__danielKamion, someone in ubuntu-de said it didn't countain libjavaplugin_oji.so - but he maybe was referring to another java thingie11:10
__danielKamion, which package were you talking about?11:10
Kamionenrico: it's not quite as far as you mentioned, but it's clearly the document where that sort of thing should live11:10
Kamion__daniel: I don't know anything about this, I was just asking thom about it since he did most of our recent firefox work11:10
mdzKamion: are we waiting for u-artwork to build, currently?11:11
__danielKamion: right, i'll just ask the guy again11:11
enricoKamion: are those pages modifiable?11:11
Kamionmdz: yep11:12
Kamionenrico: don't know, to be honest; I'd talk to silbs/lu when they're around, or mail ubuntu-devel@11:12
mdzKamion: well-rested, I hope? :-)11:12
enricoKamion: ok, thanks, I'll write to the list11:13
Kamionmdz: does five hours sleep last night count?11:13
mdzKamion: no11:13
mdzKamion: feel like a nap?  could be a long night11:13
KamionI suspect I will try to grab some tonight rather than do the all-nighter thing again11:14
mdzdo we have a target for the launch time?11:14
thomKamion: not on #ubuntu11:14
thomKamion: afaik, you need a j2re, which should contain the plugin11:14
thomthen you need to smack that into /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins or similar11:15
__danielKamion, he didn't download a .deb - so it couldn't work11:15
Kamionjust asking him about plugins now11:15
__daniel(because it didnt contain the plugin thingie)11:16
thomnote i've never done it11:16
thomi've had quite enough java contamination from sys admin work, no need for more on my desktop :-)11:16
lamontmdz: I will need to be away tonight from ~1630 until 2200 local time (MDT/-0600), although I may be able to skip out on the last half of that.  Beyond that, I figure I'm around all night.11:17
Mitariodoes anyone know a working email addy for michael vogt? (pm)11:18
thomMitario: Michael Vogt <mvo@debian.org>11:20
=== __daniel [~daniel@td9091afd.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== madduck [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== doko [doko@dsl-084-057-020-049.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== nasdaq4088 [sdfsd@tkp-ip-nas-1-p230.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mdzKamion: new ubuntu-artwork is in11:39
KamionI was just about to check that11:39
__danielgood night11:40
Kamionam I OK to start the CD build?11:40
=== __daniel [~daniel@td9091afd.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Verlassend"]
mdzKamion: yes11:42
Kamionalrighty, they're on their way11:42
jdubhold on11:42
jdubonly uploading it now11:42
lamontjdub woke up?11:42
jdubi'm uploading all the artwork packages atm11:43
mdzjdub: hold on11:43
Kamionjdub: we already uploaded an ubuntu-artwork with the new images as best we could, you'll need to sync with those11:43
mdzjdub: an ubuntu-artwork has already been uploaded11:43
Kamionam I to ctrl-C this build?11:43
mdzhold your fire11:43
mdzKamion: nah11:43
mdzno harm in having a fresh build11:43
KamionI don't mind if something supersedes that, but we needed to get something into the archive and didn't know when you'd be around11:44
jdubheh, morning .au time doesn't sound unlikely ;)11:44
Kamionwe're already two or three hours behind the time this build was supposed to be ready11:44
Kamionanyway, Keybuk did these packages, but he's gone to sleep now; is more tweaking still required?11:46
jdubwell, i consider these the gold release versions11:47
KamionI'm off to Kirsten's for a little bit, will be back by the time the new packages are in the archive11:48
=== T-Gone is now known as T-Bone
lamontspeaking of artwork...11:49
lamontjdub: any more changes for liveCD grub?11:49
jdublamont: how did it look?11:50
lamontlikewise, clues on how to replace the gnome footprint with somethign else?11:50
jduboh, stupid arrow bars11:50
jdubwhich one?11:50
lamontjdub: did you mean for the virtical bars to be multicolored?11:50
jdubyeah, saw earlier11:51
jdubit uses the scrollbar arrows for the bar for some reason11:51
jdubbut it's in the same format as the morphix one11:51
lamontlooks OK to me...11:52
jdubwith that arrow problem, it's bong11:53
lamontgnome splash == the one that says "gnome 2.8" with a footprint, or has the ubuntu logo covering the blonde...11:53
lamontthat splash11:53
jdubif that is still appearing on the livecd, we have a problem11:54
lamontthe one on the livecd says "gnome2.8"11:55
lamontwhich is still a problem, of course.11:55
jdubbecause gnome-session's gconf schema defaults to the u-a symlink11:55
jdubwhat does 'grep -A 3 splash_image /etc/gconf/schemas/gnome-session.schemas' say on the livecd?11:56
lamontalso, still have the globe in the center of the screen shot for the boot splash.11:57

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!