| lamont | hppa UP 64-bit kernel (although there are 2 cpus in the machine...) | 12:01 |
|---|---|---|
| lamont | anyway, back to the topic at hand. | 12:01 |
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === Kamion finally gets everything from /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/bin/ checked into arch | ||
| Kamion | I'd been keeping small local diffs for far too long | 12:04 |
| === cc [~byte@byte.fedora] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| lamont | Kamion: heh | 12:09 |
| Mitario | hi guys, have any core ubuntu people taken a look at my 'updates' ideas? | 12:14 |
| Kamion | now isn't really the ideal time to get lots of feedback, I suspect ... :-) | 12:15 |
| Mitario | heh :) | 12:15 |
| jdub | this 'less to view tar.gz files' stuff is crack | 12:21 |
| mdz | jdub: why? I have used it for years | 12:25 |
| sabdfl | Kamion, mdz: limi's ppc just got blessed with the rc | 12:26 |
| jdub | it's not something that ever occurred to me (nor worked on debian) | 12:26 |
| sabdfl | and it used a network install to get the latest stuff | 12:26 |
| jdub | i did a reinstall on my ibook last night | 12:26 |
| jdub | FLAWLESS VICTORY | 12:26 |
| sabdfl | but it's still wants the cd for apt-get update etc | 12:26 |
| doko | jdub: I agree ;) but you see which effect default configurations have. | 12:26 |
| sabdfl | that's a bug | 12:27 |
| Kamion | that seems like a matter of opinion? I quite like it to be able to get packages from the CD when it can | 12:27 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: if the network is available during install, seems to me the network becomes the default | 12:28 |
| Kamion | not everybody has a fast network | 12:28 |
| sabdfl | aren't they already in a cache on the disk? | 12:28 |
| Kamion | no, we didn't have time to make that work properly. | 12:28 |
| Kamion | not for Ship. | 12:28 |
| sabdfl | i pointed this out as a bug before preview | 12:28 |
| Kamion | it's very complicated to make that work properly; I agreed with mdz to defer that | 12:29 |
| Kamion | we do the archive-copier thing for Desktop only, at the moment | 12:29 |
| Kamion | which fulfils the need to not require the CD in a default installation | 12:30 |
| sabdfl | understood | 12:30 |
| sabdfl | i've no objection to the cd still being useful | 12:30 |
| sabdfl | but if the network is there during install, why don't we default to uncommenting that apt source? | 12:30 |
| Kamion | we do, but the CD source is still there | 12:30 |
| sabdfl | but... then it prompts all the time | 12:31 |
| Kamion | that's apt's business :-) | 12:31 |
| sabdfl | and the usual behaviour is to install then forget about the cd | 12:31 |
| sabdfl | i think we should comment out the cd line altogether if network was available during install | 12:31 |
| Kamion | that makes the CD useless. | 12:31 |
| sabdfl | which was the behaviour i thought we'd agreed to | 12:31 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: it's useful for those who want to use it | 12:31 |
| jdub | sabdfl: forever, or just for the install? | 12:32 |
| sabdfl | it's useful for those who have no network | 12:32 |
| sabdfl | jdub: not sure i understand? | 12:32 |
| Kamion | they have to go and uncomment it again in sources.list, or else grovel about with dpkg | 12:32 |
| Kamion | maybe a sources.list reordering would suffice? | 12:32 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: how will reordering affect things? | 12:32 |
| Kamion | dunno, just throwing out the idea | 12:32 |
| Kamion | I think apt should get a grip and if the CD isn't inserted just go to the network rather than prompting | 12:33 |
| sabdfl | that's not something we can get right for warty | 12:33 |
| sabdfl | but commenting in or out we can | 12:33 |
| Kamion | this sort of sources.list hackery is also quite fragile ... | 12:33 |
| sabdfl | mdz: need your input | 12:33 |
| Kamion | the last couple of changes we made created bugs, as I recall | 12:33 |
| sabdfl | this is a wtf?? bug | 12:33 |
| jdub | sabdfl: asking if the cdrom line should be disabled forever if they have network, or only for the life of the install, so they're not prompted for it immediately. | 12:34 |
| mdz | sabdfl: ok | 12:34 |
| Kamion | jdub: they're never prompted for it immediately | 12:34 |
| Kamion | this is "do you want your CD to be insta-transformed into a coaster?" | 12:34 |
| sabdfl | jdub: i think it should be disabled post-install if we verified they could see the network repositories | 12:35 |
| mdz | sabdfl: regarding the cache thing? | 12:35 |
| jdub | Kamion: they're prompted for it as soon as the second stage install starts (this is the bug) | 12:35 |
| Kamion | jdub: huh? | 12:35 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: i've never used a cd more than once for an install, and user comments the other day suggest that's the common case | 12:35 |
| Kamion | jdub: surely not? | 12:35 |
| mdz | sabdfl: or ordering sources.list? | 12:35 |
| sabdfl | jdub: no, i don't think they are | 12:35 |
| Kamion | jdub: that's very different from what sabdfl just claimed | 12:35 |
| sabdfl | mdz: not the cache | 12:35 |
| jdub | is it? | 12:36 |
| sabdfl | mdz: does ordering apt sources.list affect the outcome of an update request? | 12:36 |
| Kamion | jdub: sabdfl's talking about apt operations after the install is complete | 12:36 |
| mdz | sabdfl: "sort of" | 12:36 |
| sabdfl | mdz: ok, then i think we need to update the way the sources.list looks post install | 12:36 |
| jdub | on my installs, if i elect to pull updates from the network, | 12:36 |
| sabdfl | if we verified that the machine could see the network archive then the cdrom should be commented out | 12:36 |
| mdz | it more or less affects the order in which the package records happen to be stored in apt's database | 12:36 |
| sabdfl | and the network should be enabled | 12:37 |
| jdub | i'm propted to put the cd in when it's apt-get updating | 12:37 |
| mdz | which coincidentally happens to cause it to prefer one over the other | 12:37 |
| mdz | if you reorder the lines in an existing sources.list, though, that doesn't really work | 12:37 |
| Kamion | jdub: that's a bug, and not one I've seen for weeks | 12:37 |
| sabdfl | jdub: hmm... that's definitely a bug | 12:37 |
| lamont | what about just making the CD's absense a warning instead of fatal? | 12:37 |
| mdz | it's sort of an accidental feature | 12:37 |
| sabdfl | lamont: affects synaptic, aptitude.... etc | 12:37 |
| jdub | Kamion: i'll double-verify it now | 12:37 |
| mdz | jdub: apt-get _update_? | 12:37 |
| Kamion | lamont: on update, it is | 12:37 |
| mdz | that never touches the CD | 12:37 |
| mdz | CDs are only scanned by apt-cdrom | 12:38 |
| Kamion | jdub: there was a brief bug where the three packages base-config installs before the rest of the second stage weren't on the CD, so it prompted for those | 12:38 |
| Kamion | jdub: but I fixed that a while back | 12:38 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: i think the explanatory text in sources.list above the cdrom entry can explain how and why a user would re-enable that | 12:38 |
| jdub | Kamion: that could be it, i'll try now | 12:38 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: does that show up in synaptic? | 12:38 |
| sabdfl | jdub: you using rc? | 12:38 |
| mdz | Kamion: no | 12:38 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: the cd prompt? yes | 12:38 |
| mdz | (the comments in sources.list) | 12:39 |
| jdub | i used a daily last night | 12:39 |
| sabdfl | :-) | 12:39 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: no, "the explanatory text in sources.list above the cdrom entry" | 12:39 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: no, good point | 12:39 |
| sabdfl | but i think it's clear that it's referring to a cdrom | 12:39 |
| Kamion | jdub: I happen to be trying with a daily now for other reasons | 12:39 |
| Kamion | well, if mdz is happy with some more dodgy shell in base-config ... | 12:39 |
| mdz | I think the right solution is to leave it as-is, but allow it to fall back from the CD to the network if the user doesn't put the CD in | 12:39 |
| sabdfl | mdz: how? | 12:40 |
| Kamion | mdz: that's what I thought would be most reasonable behaviour | 12:40 |
| mdz | sabdfl: patch apt | 12:40 |
| Kamion | so if you're on a slow network you can put the CD in and it'll use that opportunistically | 12:40 |
| jdub | mdz: agree (the endless "i really want the cd!" prompts are annoying) | 12:40 |
| sabdfl | i'd much rather be changing the shell that comments / uncomments sources.list than apt right now | 12:40 |
| mdz | jdub: yeah, I never really realized that it did that until Ubuntu | 12:40 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: remember that base-config changes can't be fixed on upgrades | 12:40 |
| mdz | I mean, who uses CDs? | 12:40 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: but source.list can't be meddled with on upgrades either, right? | 12:41 |
| mdz | Kamion: this can't be fixed on an upgrade anyway | 12:41 |
| Kamion | base-config changes are really persistent and really hard to undo from now on if we decide we made a mistake | 12:41 |
| lamont | mdz: only living breathing ones. | 12:41 |
| Kamion | mdz: yes it can, as soon as apt's patched, existing installations will stop asking for the CD | 12:41 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: ^- | 12:41 |
| mdz | Kamion: right, sources.list can't be modified on upgrade I mean | 12:41 |
| sabdfl | apt is deeeep voodoo | 12:41 |
| Kamion | indeed | 12:41 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: we employ the apt maintainer, it can't be that bad :) | 12:42 |
| sabdfl | and just because the witchdoctor is at hand doesn't mean it's where we should fix it :-) | 12:42 |
| Kamion | I think apt is exactly the *right* place for the fix | 12:42 |
| Kamion | it benefits far more people that way | 12:42 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: agreed, but balance that against the risk of a mess | 12:42 |
| Kamion | "my sources.list got screwed up on a fresh install of warty" | 12:43 |
| jdub | i'll call HR, see if i can find the apt maintainer | 12:43 |
| elmo | sabdfl: fwiw, if mdz thinks he can fix it, I actually think that's less risk than base-config hacks at this stage | 12:43 |
| mdz | the media change stuff is not _that_ hairy | 12:43 |
| elmo | jdub: har har, go on call Jane at 10 to midnight, dare you | 12:44 |
| mdz | not that I particularly want to take responsibility for fixing this at this late hour :-P | 12:44 |
| elmo | don't worry, she only sends out the pay checks, I'm sure yours won't get lost ;-) | 12:44 |
| Kamion | sounds like "if further records for this package are available, don't emit media change message" | 12:44 |
| mdz | Kamion: s/$/ again/ | 12:45 |
| mdz | needs to keep some new state, etc. not entirely trivial | 12:45 |
| Kamion | I'll fix base-config if need be, but I'm concerned that we're regarding base-config changes as automatically lower risk than other things, when in fact they're often hairy changes to hard-to-understand code whose effects persist for a long time | 12:46 |
| mdz | seems to me the simplest way to fix this for Warty is to leave the stuff in the cache | 12:46 |
| Kamion | mdz: which stuff? | 12:46 |
| mdz | Kamion: the .debs copied from the CD | 12:46 |
| Kamion | we want to zap the .debs used to install desktop | 12:46 |
| Kamion | they're a huge space-sucker | 12:47 |
| mdz | right | 12:47 |
| mdz | but we can leave the rest | 12:47 |
| mdz | non-trivial, but low-risk | 12:47 |
| Kamion | that's a change to archive-copier and a rather easier change to base-config | 12:47 |
| mdz | the worst we do is waste some disk space if we err in one direction, or prompt for the CD if we err in the other direction | 12:47 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: mdz, i need to switch away but please ping me if you decide not to go ahead with a fix for this | 12:47 |
| mdz | sabdfl: this is very important to you? | 12:48 |
| mdz | for Warty?L | 12:48 |
| mdz | s/L// | 12:48 |
| sabdfl | mdz: i think it's terrible user experience to prompt for the cd *every time* | 12:48 |
| mdz | sabdfl: it's only for a very small number of packages | 12:48 |
| sabdfl | how so? | 12:48 |
| mdz | only packages which are in ShipSeed | 12:49 |
| sabdfl | and if we reordered the sources.list? | 12:49 |
| mdz | if we reordered sources.list, it would fetch everything from the network unless it was down | 12:49 |
| sabdfl | and if network was down, and it was a cd package, *then* it would prompt for the cd? | 12:49 |
| mdz | currently, it fetches ShipSeed from the CD and everything else from the network in the default case | 12:50 |
| mdz | sabdfl: I _think_ so | 12:50 |
| sabdfl | :-) | 12:50 |
| mdz | I know it falls back from one network source to another, but the CD stuff is a little different | 12:50 |
| sabdfl | deep voodoo indeed | 12:50 |
| Kamion | mdz: (which I thought was desirable behaviour - less network usage) | 12:50 |
| mdz | and I don't use it myself | 12:50 |
| Kamion | leaving the packages in the cache means that apt won't prompt unless you've done 'apt-get clean' or equivalent at some point | 12:50 |
| sabdfl | ok, because most users won't | 12:50 |
| Kamion | is there a big synaptic button for "clean cache" that users are likely to press? | 12:50 |
| sabdfl | if that's the solution it's fine with me | 12:50 |
| mdz | my take is that the simple stopgap is to seed the cache, and the long-term solution is to fix apt | 12:51 |
| sabdfl | i really think we should take the cd out of sources.list altogether by default | 12:51 |
| sabdfl | ship list is for expert users in any event | 12:51 |
| mdz | Kamion: even if we do it by using a copy of ShipSeed in base-config, that's actually fairly reasonable | 12:51 |
| Kamion | mdz: there's an easier way, but yeah | 12:52 |
| mdz | sabdfl: it's a FAQ, though | 12:52 |
| sabdfl | ok | 12:52 |
| mdz | "how do I get on the network with this crazy module I need to compile"? | 12:52 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: only in the same way as anything not in desktop is for expert users | 12:52 |
| sabdfl | ah | 12:52 |
| sabdfl | because build-essential is in ship not desktop | 12:52 |
| mdz | and linux-headers | 12:52 |
| sabdfl | so at this terribly late stage in the game can we make a small trade? | 12:53 |
| sabdfl | build-essential in exchange for banishing the cd prompt? | 12:53 |
| jdub | noooooo | 12:53 |
| sabdfl | is jdub listening? | 12:53 |
| sabdfl | guess so :-) | 12:53 |
| Kamion | ugh | 12:53 |
| sabdfl | ok, then no trade, please just banish the cd prompt if at all possible | 12:54 |
| === Kamion goes to change archive-copier to forestall madder hacks :) | ||
| Kamion | assuming this is acceptable: | 12:55 |
| Kamion | 23:51 < mdz> my take is that the simple stopgap is to seed the cache, and the long-term solution is to fix apt | 12:55 |
| sabdfl | fine by me if it will banish the cd prompt unless the user has done the apt-cache clean thing | 12:57 |
| mdz | sounds good | 12:58 |
| Kamion | believe so; I'll test tonight | 12:58 |
| mdz | I wonder if synaptic automatically prunes the apt cache | 12:58 |
| Kamion | candidate changes already made | 12:59 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: wow | 12:59 |
| sabdfl | thanks guys | 01:00 |
| Kamion | hm, can anyone test Greek on i386 for me? somebody claims it doesn't work, but it works for me ... | 01:00 |
| Kamion | I'll mail the diffs to mdz for ack | 01:00 |
| mdz | Kamion: I can "test" greek | 01:01 |
| mdz | meaning I can tell you if the machine catches fire | 01:01 |
| elmo | what crack is this mplayer stuff? | 01:01 |
| elmo | it produces mplayer-$ARCH named packages? | 01:01 |
| Kamion | mdz: about as much as I can do; you can probably also tell me if what base-config displays looks like Greek text or garbage | 01:02 |
| mdz | elmo: yes, optimised builds | 01:02 |
| Kamion | elmo: I thought it was mplayer-386, mplayer-586, etc. | 01:03 |
| Kamion | mplayer-g4 | 01:03 |
| mdz | it used to be necessary because it couldn't do runtime CPU detection | 01:03 |
| mdz | but I think they fixed that | 01:03 |
| mdz | and marillat just continues to do them | 01:03 |
| Kamion | mdz: synaptic pruning> hope not, if so we'll have to back up and try something else | 01:03 |
| elmo | for christ's sakes | 01:03 |
| mdz | Kamion: checking it now | 01:03 |
| Kamion | mdz: (this is #2379, btw) | 01:03 |
| === Lovechild [~dnielsen@82.150.72.35] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| mdz | Kamion: default is to leave all packages in the cache | 01:04 |
| mdz | same as with apt-get | 01:04 |
| Kamion | mdz: awesome | 01:04 |
| === sladen would like to have have everything on the CD that wasn't installed copied to the APT cache directory | ||
| sladen | and/or local on-disk archive (this would allow removing the reference to the install CD from sources.list) | 01:18 |
| Kamion | sladen: the latter's planned for Hoary, but requires some thought about the best way to allow a user to clean it up to save disk space | 01:19 |
| Kamion | it really should be considered a cache, but if you just blow away a local on-disk archive, apt will complain that it's missing | 01:20 |
| Kamion | ah, good, the 'apt-get clean' equivalent is buried in Synaptic -> Preferences -> Temporary Files | 01:20 |
| Kamion | jdub: current daily definitely doesn't require the CD here; if it does for you, shout quickly | 01:21 |
| jdub | nup, just got past that myself | 01:22 |
| jdub | rocking | 01:22 |
| jdub | stage 1 was very zippy | 01:22 |
| Kamion | good good | 01:22 |
| Kamion | it'll slow down a bit by copying Ship, but can't be helped | 01:22 |
| Kamion | and default disk space requirements will go up, but conveniently I never got round to reducing them after I made archive-copier stop copying Ship :-) | 01:23 |
| Kamion | so the docs'll still be accurate | 01:23 |
| jdub | heh | 01:24 |
| Kamion | lo, my procrastination has been vindicated | 01:24 |
| === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | mdz: multiple CD builds on a single day shouldn't require you to set DATE_SUFFIX any more | 01:25 |
| === mdz [~mdz@69-167-148-207.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sladen | Kamion: indeed, and if they go along with the ``automatically update my system'' during startup, then the point of the cache/archive is nullified since there's bound to be a newer version of 90% of the stuff | 01:38 |
| Kamion | sladen: not once we release, there isn't, not for six months | 01:39 |
| Kamion | (modulo the odd security update) | 01:39 |
| sladen | this is a valid point... | 01:40 |
| Kamion | mdz: #2507, important to fix? it does seem to apply to us | 01:41 |
| mdz | Kamion: is it as trivial as it looks? | 01:42 |
| mdz | it's not critical, but nice-to-have-if-it's-safe | 01:43 |
| lamont | mdz: mplayer now d-w: libdivxdecore0, which is not delivered by any source in the archive... | 01:43 |
| Kamion | mdz: I don't know what that lt.l4 link is about | 01:43 |
| Kamion | the rest (and indeed that) seems entirely safe to me | 01:43 |
| Kamion | only affects udebs | 01:44 |
| mdz | as long as it doesn't ftbfs, seems safe to me | 01:44 |
| mdz | so feel free | 01:44 |
| mdz | lamont: is that not what we just synched? | 01:45 |
| lamont | no, we sync'd libxvidcore4 or some such | 01:45 |
| Kamion | mdz: hrm. involves another initrd build, though ... | 01:48 |
| mdz | Kamion: if you're not already planning to do another one, we can let it go | 01:49 |
| Kamion | I'm not, currently; I'll make the change in my local tree and mark it UNRELEASED | 01:49 |
| mdz | lamont: please track down whatever we need and get it into multiverse and ensure that mplayer builds | 01:52 |
| lamont | mdz: roger | 01:52 |
| === markoni [marko_tasi@P1-221-20005.dialup.ns.ac.yu] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === mdz eyes the assignedto field of #2509 | ||
| mdz | the user must have helpfully typed some substring of narayannewton@gmail.com | 01:58 |
| Kamion | mdz: grr | 02:00 |
| mdz | Kamion: what does a low mem install change? | 02:01 |
| Kamion | all sorts of stuff; it basically disables internationalisation IIRC | 02:01 |
| Kamion | (along with other things) | 02:01 |
| Kamion | selecting a Portuguese keyboard seems to work for me | 02:02 |
| Kamion | I admit that I haven't really tested lowmem installs of Ubuntu much | 02:03 |
| sivang | does anybodu know why "Computer"-->"Disks" gives me the computer:/// vfolder? | 02:08 |
| mdz | sivang: yes | 02:09 |
| mdz | because that is what it is supposed to do | 02:09 |
| sivang | mdz : why not call it "computer" ? | 02:10 |
| mdz | sivang: Computer->Computer? | 02:10 |
| Kamion | <mdz> /nick scotty | 02:10 |
| sivang | mdz : hhmm.. right. Well, I'll just explain this on the manual..that you can access the Computer VF from Computer->Disks | 02:11 |
| mdz | sivang: I think that people who know what the computer:/// vfolder is will not look in the documentation :-) | 02:11 |
| jdub | sivang: no point explaining mechanics | 02:12 |
| sivang | mdz : well, you're probably right..:) I'll just mention it there for those who don't | 02:12 |
| === hornbeck_ [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jdub | "where do i get access to my disks?" | 02:12 |
| jdub | "Computer > Disks" | 02:12 |
| sivang | jdub : I'm just following what already the gnome user guide (2.8) has | 02:13 |
| lamont | seeds just pull in depends, not recommends, yes? | 02:16 |
| mdz | lamont: correct | 02:17 |
| === lamont needs to rehash the liveCD mainmod to be desktop seed, rather than the long list of laundry it is today. | ||
| mdz | lamont: any testing feedback for the live CD, apart from me? | 02:19 |
| lamont | you and amu, that's about it. | 02:19 |
| mdz | lamont: did you ask for testing on ubuntu-users? | 02:22 |
| elmo | heh, do we have a bug asking for 2.6.9 yet? | 02:22 |
| lamont | haven't sent mail, want to try fixing alsa first - have a fix from alex | 02:22 |
| jdub | elmo: don't encourage them. :) | 02:27 |
| mdz | base warty is 234M, not bad at all | 02:28 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | hmm, that was with a full apt- cache actually | 02:34 |
| mdz | so a bit less :-) | 02:34 |
| sabdfl | mdz: have given jdub a rundown on the final artwork decision | 02:36 |
| mdz | for a moment there I thought you said you gave him a rubdown | 02:36 |
| sabdfl | seems appropriate :-) | 02:36 |
| sabdfl | i'll put up final gdm themes on my chinstrap home dir for testing | 02:36 |
| mdz | ok | 02:36 |
| sabdfl | jdub is qorking (!) up the calendar ackages | 02:37 |
| sabdfl | if those test ok then upload them | 02:37 |
| sabdfl | we'll probably want to do a final rev because i'll want to weigh in on the package descriptions | 02:37 |
| jdub | sabdfl: i'm going to tidy up the gdm theme xml | 02:37 |
| sabdfl | as in tidy -indent? | 02:38 |
| jdub | xmllint --format + brain tidying | 02:38 |
| sabdfl | jdub: ok, please document any additional changes for me to catch up on, because diff will break on the lint | 02:39 |
| === sladen [paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === Riddell [jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sabdfl | ok, mdz, how does it look that we can make a final build some time tomorrow morning your time? | 02:47 |
| sabdfl | calendar package descriptions won't affect the cd, it won't be on the cd | 02:48 |
| sabdfl | so i'm done w.r.t. cd changes | 02:48 |
| sabdfl | promise :-) | 02:48 |
| === hornbeck_ [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| sabdfl | mdz: ping ^ | 02:51 |
| mdz | workrave | 02:51 |
| === hornbeck [~hornbeck@adsl-69-153-250-222.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | 2m | 02:52 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Verlassend"] | ||
| === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | sabdfl: that sounds fine | 02:54 |
| mdz | sabdfl: all pending updates are in | 02:54 |
| sabdfl | except the theme, gnomesplash, and artwork-minus-calendar | 02:54 |
| mdz | s/updates/bugfixes/ | 02:55 |
| mdz | sabdfl: so you decided not to put the calendar on the CD at all? | 02:55 |
| hornbeck | nice inotify in Hoary! | 02:55 |
| mdz | sabdfl: we need to come up with a name for the semi-official embedded warty I'm going to publish, since I need it for my gateway box | 02:57 |
| === Kamion goes to test archive-copier/base-config change | ||
| mdz | "uUbuntu", while cute, is neither pronounceable nor typable | 02:57 |
| sabdfl | mu-buntu? | 02:57 |
| vorlon | " | 02:58 |
| vorlon | .. bah, that didn't work. but yeah, mubuntu :) | 02:58 |
| vorlon | there we go, buntu | 02:58 |
| mdz | heh | 02:58 |
| mdz | not bad | 02:58 |
| sabdfl | elmo: alive? | 02:59 |
| daniels | fabbione: not really | 03:01 |
| mdz | Kamion: how are you going about it? | 03:02 |
| mdz | Kamion: removing debs for packages which are already installed? | 03:02 |
| mdz | I guess removing everything with an ubuntu-{base,desktop} task would do | 03:02 |
| lifeless | 03:06 | |
| lifeless | 03:06 | |
| lifeless | 03:06 | |
| lifeless | hehehe | 03:06 |
| lifeless | if I compose those, my terminal shows them wonky, until they go from the edit line in irssi into the scrollback. | 03:07 |
| lifeless | weird. | 03:07 |
| lifeless | 03:07 | |
| lifeless | 03:07 | |
| lifeless | 03:07 | |
| lifeless | 03:07 | |
| lifeless | 03:07 | |
| lifeless | 03:07 | |
| lifeless | 03:07 | |
| lifeless | no idea where my mu is | 03:07 |
| tseng | could you stop that | 03:07 |
| tseng | thanks. | 03:07 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: around | 03:09 |
| sabdfl | buntu | 03:09 |
| lifeless | thats the one | 03:09 |
| jdub | mdz: nanubuntu | 03:09 |
| lifeless | I just dunno the keyboard shortcut to do it. | 03:10 |
| jdub | plus you can make mork and mindy jokes | 03:10 |
| sabdfl | hmm... we should also have a nannybuntu, for mid-west / mid-east viewers | 03:10 |
| vorlon | lifeless: <compose>m+u | 03:10 |
| lifeless | 03:10 | |
| lifeless | 03:10 | |
| lifeless | bah. | 03:10 |
| lamont | mdz: building a new liveCD candidate for you: updated sound detection (we hope...), and slight changes to look more like base/supported seeds | 03:10 |
| lifeless | I'll piss tseng off again, wouldn't want bad karma | 03:11 |
| sabdfl | lifeless: try the right hand alt, and m | 03:11 |
| mdz | lamont: ok | 03:11 |
| vorlon | ... I didn't mean you needed to test it in the channel more... | 03:11 |
| lifeless | 03:11 | |
| lifeless | thats right-alt m. | 03:11 |
| sabdfl | yes | 03:11 |
| lifeless | vorlon: unless I hit enter, I can't actually see it !? | 03:11 |
| jdub | sabdfl: we aussies don't have compose set up by default. we don't speak no other englishes. | 03:11 |
| sabdfl | sigh | 03:11 |
| sabdfl | night all | 03:11 |
| lifeless | night | 03:12 |
| mdz | sabdfl: night | 03:12 |
| jdub | 'nacht | 03:12 |
| === vorlon waves | ||
| === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| === tseng peaks in at mono | ||
| lamont | vorlon: I don't have a key labeled 'compose' | 03:13 |
| lamont | tseng: missing anything, I wonder? | 03:13 |
| tseng | ah nice, gtk-sharp made it this time | 03:13 |
| tseng | so monodoc should succeed on ppc, x86 next go around | 03:13 |
| tseng | and then with any luck the apps will build. | 03:14 |
| tseng | :) | 03:14 |
| jdub | "I have to admit that I find the black girl somewhat erotically arousing, | 03:14 |
| jdub | because you can see the fleshy base of her mammary and I am hardwired as | 03:14 |
| jdub | it were to be visually stimulated by such things." | 03:14 |
| jdub | ... | 03:14 |
| lamont | tseng: monodoc is arch: all only? | 03:14 |
| tseng | well it deps on gtk-sharp | 03:15 |
| tseng | which is only built on x86 ppc so far | 03:15 |
| lamont | mono doesn't list amd64 in the control file, so no build happiness there. But mono is 32-bit only, yes? | 03:16 |
| tseng | so far | 03:16 |
| tseng | the short answer is yes. | 03:16 |
| jdub | the long answer is always 'maybe', which is indeed longer than 'yes'. | 03:17 |
| === lamont slaps jdub with a cold trout | ||
| vorlon | lamont: no? Mine looks slightly like a pull-down menu with a mouse pointer on it :-) | 03:18 |
| tseng | hm whats going on with muine | 03:18 |
| tseng | jdub: the long answer is more of a "sortof kindof" | 03:19 |
| lamont | vorlon: where, that's my question??? | 03:19 |
| tseng | oh | 03:20 |
| tseng | After installing, the following source dependencies are still unsatisfied: | 03:20 |
| tseng | libgtk-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) libgconf-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) libgnome-cil(inst 1.0.2-1 ! << wanted 0.99) | 03:20 |
| tseng | Source-dependencies not satisfied; skipping muine | 03:20 |
| tseng | i see said the blind man. | 03:21 |
| mdz | ...as he picked up his hammer and sawa | 03:22 |
| mdz | saw, even | 03:22 |
| daniels | jdub: aren't we all? | 03:23 |
| vorlon | lamont: on my keymap, the menu key is a compose key. I think I'm running a keymap that vaguely resembles the stock Debian dvorak X layout, but I could be wrong... | 03:25 |
| lifeless | menu key ? | 03:26 |
| mdz | the one with a little picture of a drop-down menu | 03:26 |
| mdz | on a 104-key keyboard | 03:26 |
| vorlon | on 104/105-key "Microsoft" keyboards. | 03:26 |
| lifeless | oh right, | 03:26 |
| lifeless | I have it, it generates '9~' | 03:27 |
| vorlon | #include "bitchy-rant-about-not-being-able-to-find-a-good-105-key-anymore.h" | 03:27 |
| lifeless | without the quotes | 03:27 |
| lifeless | just superglue an old good one to your laptop ? | 03:27 |
| vorlon | :) | 03:27 |
| === lifeless kicks off a regression test run, and goes to stretch legs | ||
| mdz | I can get ubuntu down to about 130M without any trouble | 03:29 |
| mdz | should fit nicely on a 256M CF | 03:29 |
| lifeless | with jffs2 it should go way further down | 03:30 |
| mdz | I'm using jffs2 currently, and I'm sick of it | 03:31 |
| mdz | it doesn't support shared writable mmap, and it takes about 15 minutes to do its boot-time consistency check | 03:31 |
| mdz | I'm told the latter may be fixed in 2.6 | 03:31 |
| mdz | but the former makes apt unusable, which is rather inconvenient | 03:31 |
| lamont | mdz: people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-02/warty-live-i386.iso | 03:32 |
| mdz | lamont: any point in trying to rsync against the last one? | 03:33 |
| mdz | assuming no | 03:34 |
| mdz | err | 03:34 |
| mdz | lamont: that image is 688,728,064 bytes | 03:34 |
| mdz | 650M = 681574400 bytes | 03:34 |
| lamont | mdz: no, not really | 03:34 |
| lamont | it turns to crap with the compressed image. | 03:34 |
| === lamont thought CD's were 700MB... | ||
| lamont | or must I prune? | 03:35 |
| mdz | some of them are | 03:35 |
| mdz | some are not | 03:35 |
| lamont | _mine_ all are... :-) | 03:35 |
| lamont | prune to 650MB? | 03:35 |
| mdz | the CDs we will be pressing are not :-P | 03:35 |
| mdz | (yes) | 03:35 |
| lamont | right | 03:35 |
| === lamont will prune | ||
| === mdz cancels the download | ||
| jdub | oof | 03:37 |
| jdub | wonder what the price difference is | 03:37 |
| daniels | http://www.livejournal.com/users/whirled/218294.html | 03:38 |
| daniels | warioware is eeeevviiiil. | 03:38 |
| lamont | mdz: what should be the first piece of desktop to go *poof*?? | 03:38 |
| lamont | emacs21 would get me back under the size limit.. :-) | 03:39 |
| chrisa | Remove emacs, add vim-gnome | 03:40 |
| lamont | mdz: alien and friends can go, yes? | 03:40 |
| jdub | lamont: (some of those winfoss things are total crack) | 03:40 |
| lamont | jdub: which ones, and I'll prune the tarball | 03:41 |
| jdub | lamont: (i'm not going to claim final call on that, but it's an option) | 03:41 |
| === lamont thinks they're all crack, but that's just my anti-windoze bias showing... | ||
| lamont | celestia strikes me as fluff | 03:43 |
| jdub | mmm | 03:43 |
| jdub | 2.6.9 looks boring | 03:43 |
| jdub | not much change | 03:43 |
| jdub | let's ship it! | 03:43 |
| lamont | jdub: WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH JDUB??? | 03:44 |
| jdub | haha | 03:44 |
| jdub | sometimes "no" gets boring | 03:44 |
| lamont | abiword audacity celestia firefox gimp openoffice pdfcreator thunderbird | 03:44 |
| lamont | pick some | 03:44 |
| jdub | well, we don't even ship celestia | 03:44 |
| mdz | lamont: ttf-baekmuk? | 03:44 |
| lamont | we kinda depricated abiword, didn't we? | 03:44 |
| mdz | that might get you below the limit by itself | 03:44 |
| lamont | mdz: cool | 03:45 |
| jdub | no, abiword is just in supported | 03:45 |
| mdz | there are several big font packages | 03:45 |
| lamont | <!-- <packagereq>ttf-baekmuk</packagereq> DOESN'T FIT--> | 03:45 |
| mdz | sorry, Korea :-( | 03:46 |
| mdz | someone has to take one for the team | 03:46 |
| mdz | or | 03:46 |
| mdz | we could remove lsb and libc6-dev | 03:47 |
| mdz | that might do it too | 03:47 |
| chrisa | lamont: abiword and pdfcreator | 03:47 |
| lamont | pdfcreateor is useful, though... celestia is fluff | 03:47 |
| lamont | mdz: trying one with ttf-baekmuk gone | 03:47 |
| lamont | stripping lsb will strip ubuntu-desktop, btw | 03:48 |
| mdz | lamont: what's this: abiword audacity celestia firefox gimp openoffice pdfcreator thunderbird | 03:48 |
| lamont | that's the windoze apps that are on the CD uncompressed | 03:48 |
| mdz | ah | 03:48 |
| lamont | I think abiword and celestia might make it so that korea doesn't have to take one for the team | 03:48 |
| mdz | we definitely want abiword | 03:49 |
| lamont | for windows? | 03:49 |
| mdz | yes | 03:49 |
| lamont | ok | 03:49 |
| mdz | celestia seems a bit esoteric | 03:49 |
| mdz | but that'd have to go through Mark | 03:49 |
| lamont | 720 disctree/celestia | 03:49 |
| lamont | 11968 programs/celestia | 03:49 |
| lamont | I could strip it for now. Or Korea could be helpful | 03:50 |
| jdub | might be best to concentrate on smaller live-cd-not-required things | 03:50 |
| lamont | jdub: OK. | 03:50 |
| lamont | test build without korea fonts running, eta 30 min... | 03:50 |
| chrisa | Poor .kr | 03:51 |
| lamont | sigh. home machine filled up. Guess I have to remove some old ISO's. :-) | 03:52 |
| lamont | libc6-i686?? | 03:53 |
| jdub | lamont: got that morphix grub thingy handy? | 03:54 |
| jdub | lamont: what order are the arrows in the bottom left? | 03:54 |
| jdub | down up or up down? | 03:54 |
| lamont | sec - gotta reboot | 03:55 |
| jdub | just check the image... :) | 03:55 |
| jdub | oh | 03:55 |
| jdub | if you're rebooting for this, don't | 03:56 |
| Kamion | mdz: no, much easier than that | 03:56 |
| jdub | but if you're rebooting otherwise, go right ahead | 03:56 |
| jdub | ;) | 03:56 |
| lamont | uh, what arrows? | 03:56 |
| jdub | in the pcx | 03:56 |
| jdub | down the bottom left | 03:56 |
| jdub | there are some bits of stuff | 03:56 |
| jdub | two arrow buttons | 03:56 |
| lamont | there's boot optoins and such, but I see no buttons | 03:56 |
| mdz | Kamion: don't keep me in suspense :-) | 03:56 |
| jdub | lamont: not on the boot screen, on the image itself | 03:57 |
| lamont | doh | 03:57 |
| jdub | heh | 03:57 |
| Kamion | mdz: we just move stuff at different times | 03:57 |
| Kamion | mdz: mail on its way to you now | 03:57 |
| mdz | jdub: what do you mean by smaller live-cd-not-required things? | 03:57 |
| Kamion | tested, works for me | 03:57 |
| lamont | jdub: left one up, right one down. | 03:58 |
| jdub | mdz: stupid shit you wouldn't need on a live cd; lamont mentioned alien | 03:58 |
| jdub | lamont: rock, thanks | 03:58 |
| lamont | ubuntu-desktop pulls in alien | 03:58 |
| mdz | jdub: why wouldn't you need alien? | 03:58 |
| mdz | lamont: alien is required by lsb | 03:58 |
| Kamion | not sure I see the absolute requirement to have ubuntu-desktop | 03:58 |
| jdub | on the live cd? | 03:58 |
| Kamion | it's not like you're going to be upgrading this, which is basically what u-d is for | 03:59 |
| mdz | jdub: morphix live CDs use an overlay filesystem, so you can install things | 03:59 |
| lamont | just added it because it was in the seed... | 03:59 |
| lamont | likewise, we could drop synaptic and friends, no? But probably shouldn't. | 03:59 |
| mdz | no, for the same reason | 03:59 |
| Kamion | ubuntu-desktop depends on everything in the seed :) | 03:59 |
| lamont | just not from http repositories on this CD. | 03:59 |
| jdub | doesn't seem like we should bother supporting that too much | 04:00 |
| mdz | jdub: we shouldn't break it for the sake of ~2M | 04:00 |
| lamont | I'm happy calling http repositories an errata item for the liveCD. (caused we think by the funky FS hooks and sockets...) | 04:00 |
| jdub | mdz: alien was an example, i'm sure there are other things that are less useful on a livecd | 04:00 |
| jdub | lamont: want a new grub thingy? | 04:01 |
| lamont | yes, please | 04:01 |
| mdz | if you look at the live CD as a demo + rescue environment, pretty much everything is useful | 04:01 |
| lamont | doc-debian? | 04:02 |
| Kamion | that's tiny anyway | 04:03 |
| Kamion | hm, no it's not | 04:03 |
| lamont | I'd be more inclined to nuke that than korea... | 04:03 |
| lamont | does xscreensaver-gl buy us enough to justify? | 04:04 |
| lamont | and libc6-i686 has potential... | 04:05 |
| === azrail [~azrail@vectra.csh.rit.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | mdz: fwiw, the last several CD's have been too large... | 04:06 |
| azrail | question: I am looking to add a package to the ubuntu tree, whom do I talk to about doing such | 04:06 |
| Kamion | azrail: I meant the ubuntu-devel mailing list. | 04:07 |
| Kamion | azrail: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com | 04:07 |
| azrail | Kamion, blargh. | 04:07 |
| lamont | jdub: you sending me that image, or did my spam blocks take it? | 04:08 |
| lamont | daniels: for my clueless brain... there's a program somewhere in the x-pile that just reads keycodes and dumps their values to stdout.... What is it? | 04:10 |
| jdub | lamont: one sec | 04:10 |
| jdub | lamont: xev | 04:11 |
| daniels | lamont: xev, yah | 04:12 |
| lamont | thanks | 04:12 |
| jdub | tseng: yayayayaayya! | 04:14 |
| === jdub dances around like kermit the frog | ||
| lamont | jdub: why so? | 04:14 |
| lamont | mono? | 04:14 |
| jdub | yeah | 04:15 |
| mdz | lamont: run dpigs on it | 04:15 |
| mdz | dpigs -100 -s /livecd/var/lib/dpkg/status | 04:15 |
| lamont | dropping ttf didn't do squat | 04:15 |
| lamont | ok. | 04:15 |
| lamont | you mean dpkgs? | 04:17 |
| lamont | or where does dpigs come from? | 04:18 |
| lamont | debian-goodies | 04:19 |
| lamont | 126784 openoffice.org-bin | 04:19 |
| lamont | 36096 emacs21-common | 04:19 |
| lamont | 28896 openoffice.org | 04:19 |
| lamont | 28604 evolution | 04:19 |
| lamont | 28156 gnome-applets-data | 04:19 |
| lamont | \ | 04:19 |
| lamont | heh | 04:19 |
| jdub | they're crap, rip 'em all out | 04:20 |
| chrisa | I vote emacs21-common leaves | 04:20 |
| lamont | actually, ubuntu-desktop pulled in ttf-baekmuk. time for it to die. | 04:22 |
| lamont | 23 minutes | 04:23 |
| lamont | jdub: timer is gonna be brown on brown... | 04:24 |
| jdub | lamont: isn't that what the little white line is for? | 04:25 |
| lamont | maybe. dunno | 04:25 |
| === jdub tinks it is | ||
| === lamont builds | ||
| === lamont builds the home edition with the new artwork. | ||
| === jamesh [~james@203-59-213-254.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | -rw-r--r-- 1 root buildd 676261888 Oct 19 03:41 warty-live-i386.iso | 04:42 |
| lamont | that better? | 04:42 |
| lamont | 645MB. | 04:43 |
| mdz | Kamion: still here? | 04:45 |
| mdz | lamont: yes | 04:46 |
| lamont | mdz: people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-03/warty-live-i386.iso | 04:47 |
| lamont | jdub: does mono deliver a jdk | 04:49 |
| lamont | ? | 04:49 |
| lamont | mdz et al: downloading? | 04:53 |
| Kamion | mdz: yes | 04:53 |
| lamont | jdub: this also has the new grub screen | 04:53 |
| lamont | mdz: I couldn't find divxdecode0 anywhere, but did see some comments about dealing with divx better in the vidxcore package, so I'm going to try building mplayer without it... | 04:56 |
| mdz | jamesh: heh, I just assumed that that drag-search-result-to-the-trash thing actually worked with the original trashcan | 04:59 |
| jamesh | mdz: nope. | 04:59 |
| mdz | lamont: don't you mean libdivxdecore0? | 05:00 |
| lamont | mdz: yeah. that one | 05:00 |
| mdz | lamont: you're sure you didn't search for 'decode' rather than 'decore'? | 05:00 |
| mdz | google finds many references | 05:00 |
| lamont | 99% certain... yea, but no nice pretty debian packages that I could find., | 05:00 |
| mdz | divx4linux (1:5.0.1-1) unstable; urgency=low | 05:01 |
| mdz | * New upstream release. | 05:01 |
| mdz | -- Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org> Sat, 27 Apr 2002 14:34:55 +0200 | 05:01 |
| lamont | where! | 05:01 |
| mdz | 05:01 | |
| mdz | _very first hit_ | 05:01 |
| lamont | sigh. saw that was clearly an email, ignored it.. | 05:01 |
| === lamont should read more | ||
| mdz | it wasn't an email | 05:02 |
| mdz | it was a directory index | 05:02 |
| lamont | searching for libdivxdecore0? | 05:02 |
| mdz | yep | 05:02 |
| mdz | http://www.google.com/search?&q=libdivxdecore0 | 05:02 |
| lamont | Index of doc/...? | 05:03 |
| mdz | correct | 05:03 |
| mdz | look in changelog, find source package name, search for <source package name> dsc, find source package | 05:03 |
| lamont | and go see mowgli, eh? | 05:04 |
| mdz | the man-cub | 05:05 |
| lamont | Guess I should test build it before I request the sync, eh? | 05:05 |
| lamont | mdz: except that said source doesn't produce libdivxdecore0 | 05:08 |
| === lamont searches more | ||
| fabbione | morning guys | 05:11 |
| lamont | mdz: no joy here. | 05:13 |
| lamont | and mplayer apperas to be missing a builddep on xmms | 05:14 |
| chrisa | eh? mplayer shouldn't need xmms to build | 05:16 |
| lamont | cc: /usr/lib/libxmms.so.1: No such file or directory | 05:17 |
| lamont | configure ... --enable-xmms | 05:18 |
| Kamion | mdz: uploaded | 05:22 |
| === hazmat [~hazmat@c-24-15-10-12.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | Kamion: does that require an initrd update? | 05:37 |
| Kamion | mdz: no | 05:38 |
| mdz | yay | 05:38 |
| Kamion | roughly speaking only udebs needed up to and including "Loading installer components from CD" are in the initrd | 05:38 |
| Kamion | anyway, long past my bedtime | 05:40 |
| lamont | Log for successful build of mplayer | 05:44 |
| lamont | mdz: so... interesting thing... | 05:44 |
| lamont | if you take the source package in our archive, and you say 'dpkg-buildpackage -S', you get a source package without the libdivxdecore0 Build-Dep | 05:45 |
| lamont | so, can I upload? | 05:45 |
| mdz | lamont: fascinating | 05:46 |
| mdz | yes | 05:46 |
| Kamion | mdz: oh, before I go, did I understand sabdfl correctly earlier that he wants a final-candidate warty build tomorrow morning your time? | 05:47 |
| lamont | there are 4 debian/control files, and one of them gets copied into debian/control during debian/rules clean | 05:49 |
| lamont | mplayer uploaded. | 05:51 |
| lamont | the crowd may cheer. | 05:51 |
| lamont | now then, about java... | 05:51 |
| lamont | what should I install on my wife's computer? | 05:51 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | so do we correct the people who call it 4.1? | 05:54 |
| lamont | jdub: was that grubscreen supposed to have different bands of color in the climbing timer? | 05:55 |
| Kamion | lamont: I've been doing so when I can be bothered | 05:55 |
| lamont | Kamion: it won't be to significant until 5.10 > 5.04 > 5.1 :-) | 05:56 |
| lamont | jdub? | 05:58 |
| === lamont points jdub (and whoever) at http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/jdub-grub.jpg | ||
| lamont | should it look like that. I mean, the bars are kinda unique on the countdown clock... Just wondering if it was intentional. | 06:06 |
| lamont | sigh. libc_5.4.46-15 bootstrapped. | 06:28 |
| lamont | as did libdb_1.85.4 | 06:28 |
| lamont | so did anyone download & boot 20041019-03? | 06:35 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| === lamont pokes mdz | ||
| lamont | Subject: mplayer_1.0-pre5-0.6ubuntu1_source.changes is NEW | 06:41 |
| === lamont looks around for katie... | ||
| lamont | because apparently "mplayer" != "mplayer" | 06:41 |
| === lamont sleeps | ||
| fabbione | mdz: still around? | 07:03 |
| mdz | lamont: back | 07:14 |
| mdz | garage door repair was needed | 07:14 |
| mdz | Kamion: he said "tomorrow" | 07:14 |
| mdz | Kamion: it was not clear whether he meant yours+his or mine | 07:14 |
| fabbione | mdz: you got email :P | 07:16 |
| mdz | s/email/MORE email/ | 07:17 |
| fabbione | no no.. when you get mail from me, they are always full of love :P | 07:20 |
| === fabbione needs to swap 2 workstations really soon | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === SuperL4g [~colbyirc@CPE-69-76-188-71.kc.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| SuperL4g | Did I hear right that there was going to be some big discussion today about the artwork? | 07:42 |
| jdub | lamont: weird | 07:59 |
| jdub | lamont: i thought they were in the right spot for the arrows | 08:00 |
| jdub | SuperLag: that was on #ubuntu much earlier | 08:00 |
| === tix [~ryan@80.185.novustelecom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | ARGH | 08:28 |
| fabbione | 2516 to 2521 | 08:28 |
| === Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| fabbione | 11. Pressed PowerPC and AMD65 CDs Available | 08:47 |
| fabbione | WOHHAAAA | 08:47 |
| fabbione | AMD65 <--!!! | 08:47 |
| Keybuk | morning | 08:48 |
| fabbione | it must be cool :P | 08:48 |
| === justdave [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === jamesh_ [~james@203-59-18-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === drobitaille [~daniel@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| Mithrandir | fabbione: I guess they counted the nx bit as well, or something. :P | 09:28 |
| fabbione | ehehe | 09:28 |
| Mithrandir | fabbione: xfree doesn't put anything in /usr/X11R6/lib32, does it? | 09:34 |
| Mithrandir | (on amd64) | 09:34 |
| fabbione | no | 09:34 |
| fabbione | only {whatever}/lib | 09:34 |
| Mithrandir | yeah, good | 09:34 |
| === sivang [~sg@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sivang | morning all | 09:46 |
| Keybuk | glslideshow is a *bad* screensaver | 10:07 |
| sivang | Keybuk : why bad? | 10:07 |
| Keybuk | I fed it the directory with all my digital camera albums in it | 10:08 |
| Keybuk | and then I sit and stare at it for hours going "ooh, I remember that" | 10:08 |
| jdub | it seems to use gobloads of cpu, despite using gl | 10:08 |
| Keybuk | jdub: really? it doesn't for me | 10:09 |
| jdub | i should try again on my desktop | 10:10 |
| === jdub goes to do ubuntu presnetation | ||
| Keybuk | doesn't use enough to seriously appear in top | 10:10 |
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| seb128 | morning | 10:17 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Hi seb128 | 10:46 |
| seb128 | hey pitti | 10:48 |
| === carlos [~carlos@69.Red-80-33-181.pooles.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === lifeless_ [~robertc@dsl-69.8.240.220.rns01-kent-syd.dsl.comindico.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091beb.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione | daniels: ping | 11:40 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| enrico | Hello all | 11:49 |
| __daniel | hai enrico | 11:50 |
| === Ferry [~Ferry@cust.15.118.adsl.cistron.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === seb128 [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-3-44.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | oops, I broke the daily CD build script | 12:44 |
| Kamion | fixing ... | 12:44 |
| === seb128_ [~seb128@ANancy-151-1-5-230.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | Kamion: is that the reason why there are still no dailys available for today? | 12:46 |
| pitti | Kamion: I'd like to test today's | 12:46 |
| Kamion | pitti: yes | 12:46 |
| Kamion | today's is building now | 12:46 |
| pitti | oh fine | 12:46 |
| pitti | thanks | 12:46 |
| Kamion | I noticed when I also tried to test today's :) | 12:46 |
| Kamion | fallout from the attempt to make multiple cron.daily invocations on the same day work | 12:47 |
| pitti | Kamion: it's still the "old" artwork, right? | 12:47 |
| Kamion | kinda surprised I didn't get cronmail about the failure, though | 12:47 |
| Kamion | pitti: I've no idea if the new artwork has been uploaded yet; I haven't got to warty-changes in my mail-reading yet | 12:47 |
| pitti | Kamion: I read it, no changes until now | 12:48 |
| pitti | Kamion: I'm just not sure whether this must be changed in artwork or in /etc/skel, base-config or whatever | 12:48 |
| Kamion | just ubuntu-artwork (and possibly friends) as far as I know. | 12:52 |
| Kamion | I really hope base-config doesn't need to be changed, since that would directly imply that we weren't fixing things properly on upgrade. | 12:53 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: do you know if jdub uploaded new artwork, gdm and calendar pkgs last night? | 01:01 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: apparently not | 01:03 |
| sabdfl | 'k thanks | 01:04 |
| Kamion | I'll do a new CD build the moment I see them hit the archive | 01:04 |
| sabdfl | great | 01:05 |
| sabdfl | btw, limi's ppc build last night said "Debian/warty" or something like that in MacOS disk info | 01:05 |
| === kylem_ [~kyle@CPE0030ab0b413b-CM023469906297.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | pitti: new images up | 01:09 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: that's odd, I thought it had been Ubuntu/warty forever | 01:09 |
| pitti | Kamion: thanks! Sucking them now... | 01:09 |
| Kamion | Volume id: Ubuntu 4.10 ppc Bin-1 | 01:10 |
| Kamion | hmm | 01:10 |
| mjg59 | sabdfl: You were looking for me last night? | 01:10 |
| Kamion | oh, it'll be the HFS volid, not the ISO9660 one | 01:10 |
| Kamion | ./tools/boot/warty/boot-powerpc:echo -n " -part -no-desktop -hfs-bless CD$N/install -hfs-volid Debian/PowerPC_${CODENAME} " \ | 01:11 |
| Kamion | bleh | 01:11 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: fixed, thanks | 01:11 |
| sabdfl | :-) you're welcome | 01:11 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: have you been drinking your merging potion? | 01:12 |
| Kamion | for post-warty? | 01:12 |
| sabdfl | i hope yo mama dropped you in it when you was a little boy, and it had a permanent effect | 01:12 |
| sabdfl | * | 01:12 |
| Kamion | currently here <------------------------> post-warty <-> the moon :-) | 01:12 |
| sabdfl | it's getting the 1st 200 km that hurts, trust me | 01:13 |
| Kamion | but yeah, I suspect I will be knee-deep in d-i merging for some time | 01:13 |
| Kamion | heh | 01:13 |
| mjg59 | Hrm. | 01:13 |
| mjg59 | We now stand a decent chance of some amount of StR functionality on most hardware for Hoary - it's getting that last bit that's going to be nasty | 01:14 |
| sabdfl | SR? | 01:14 |
| mjg59 | Suspend to Ram | 01:14 |
| sabdfl | nasty? this is what we do before breakfast :-) | 01:14 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: please could you help elmo register buntu.(com/net/org) for us? i've no idea of the idn foo required | 01:15 |
| Kamion | mdz: do you want me to upload jigit, or are you on it? | 01:15 |
| mjg59 | We're at the point where most hardware either wakes up to a good approximation of properly, or blows up immediately | 01:16 |
| mjg59 | sabdfl: You want xn--buntu-7be.(com/net) - .org doesn't do IDN yet | 01:16 |
| sabdfl | literally xn--buntu-7be? | 01:17 |
| mjg59 | The nc40xx series seems to be firmly in the blows up immediately camp | 01:17 |
| mjg59 | sabdfl: Yup | 01:17 |
| sabdfl | wow | 01:17 |
| sabdfl | ok | 01:17 |
| Kamion | punycode is funky (in the RUN AWAY sense) | 01:17 |
| sabdfl | why didnt they just use utf8? | 01:17 |
| mjg59 | DNS doesn't support 8-bit streams | 01:17 |
| mjg59 | Or, rather, there are limites on what can go in an A record | 01:17 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: who on earth runs dns over anything else? | 01:18 |
| mjg59 | Not all of ascii is valid, either | 01:18 |
| mjg59 | You basically get alphanumerics and - | 01:18 |
| vorlon | the DNS RFCs strictly define the set of allowed chars in DNS records, and they felt they couldn't afford to break interop with existing implementations. | 01:18 |
| vorlon | Apparently not everybody on the Internet runs bind9 on Debian, bah. | 01:19 |
| vorlon | cut 'em loose, I say ;) | 01:19 |
| Kamion | the requirements draft puts it a little more strongly :-) | 01:19 |
| Kamion | [1] The DNS is essential to the entire Internet. Therefore, the service | 01:19 |
| Kamion | MUST NOT damage present DNS protocol interoperability. It MUST make the | 01:19 |
| Kamion | minimum number of changes to existing protocols on all layers of the | 01:19 |
| Kamion | stack. It MUST continue to allow any system anywhere to resolve any | 01:19 |
| Kamion | internationalized domain name. | 01:19 |
| mjg59 | Kamion: Do you still have that bastard evil VIA laptop? | 01:20 |
| Kamion | mjg59: yes | 01:21 |
| mjg59 | Can I grab that off you at some point? | 01:21 |
| Kamion | mjg59: the C3? sure, I can drop it over today | 01:21 |
| mjg59 | Cool. | 01:21 |
| mjg59 | I /think/ it'll probably suspend/resume now | 01:22 |
| Kamion | rock | 01:22 |
| Kamion | is this with 2.6.9? | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | Plus a couple more patches | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | There were a couple of problems - firstly, the kernel was writing a virtual address to the wakeup register, not a physical one | 01:23 |
| Kamion | would you prefer it with or without a working install of something? | 01:23 |
| mjg59 | Heh | 01:23 |
| mjg59 | All I need is a kernel, bash, and scp | 01:23 |
| Kamion | I'll give you a full install then, less effort | 01:24 |
| fabbione | Kamion: ping me when ready to test the new iso's :-) | 01:25 |
| mjg59 | Cool, thanks | 01:25 |
| Kamion | fabbione: any particular new ISOs? | 01:25 |
| mjg59 | Ooh. ntfs support is getting closer to file creation/deletion | 01:26 |
| fabbione | Kamion: the one that will be final tomrrow? ;) | 01:26 |
| Kamion | fabbione: I'm sure it won't be silent here :) | 01:26 |
| vorlon | mjg59: hmm, there's actually been progress on that? | 01:27 |
| mjg59 | vorlon: There's code for inode allocation/deallocation now | 01:28 |
| vorlon | last I asked, I was told that it *probably* wouldn't blow anything up as long as I was writing to an existing file whose size I didn't need to change. ;) | 01:28 |
| Kamion | now somebody please make parted support NTFS :) | 01:28 |
| mjg59 | But yeah, the only safe thing is not to change the size yet | 01:28 |
| vorlon | doesn't it already? Are we still using ntfsresize from partman? | 01:29 |
| sabdfl | mjg59: is StR going to basically require custom voodoo for each separate laptop? | 01:31 |
| Kamion | vorlon: the latter, AFAIK | 01:34 |
| Kamion | (Ubuntu isn't even doing that, because the change arrived late in our freeze period and it's a very scary change.) | 01:35 |
| mjg59 | sabdfl: In the long run, no | 01:35 |
| === vorlon could probably be induced to add ntfs support to parted post-sarge. | ||
| Kamion | hooray | 01:35 |
| pitti | jamesh: I read in your blog that you are working on fancy panel icons for mounted devices, right? | 01:36 |
| === Kamion makes note to send vorlon a few gallons of caipirinha | ||
| vorlon | after all, it's just not right for there to be a Windows-related technology that I haven't touched from Linux. :) | 01:36 |
| pitti | jamesh: bug #980 is about that, can I assign it to you? | 01:37 |
| vorlon | ack, wait, this means I have to learn C# too, nooooo | 01:37 |
| jamesh | pitti: I'm looking. | 01:37 |
| mjg59 | sabdfl: We still need to solve the video reinitialisation problem | 01:37 |
| === martink [~chatzilla@141.76.2.7] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mjg59 | But other than that, the problems are going to be down to individual drivers that do the wrong thing | 01:38 |
| sabdfl | hey apparently there's a linux distribution that only runs perl | 01:38 |
| mjg59 | Fixing most of those drivers is easy, but there's a lot of grunt work involved | 01:38 |
| sabdfl | we should ask them if they want to do it as a derivative | 01:38 |
| vorlon | what, like, init=/usr/bin/perl? | 01:38 |
| sabdfl | "pubuntu" :-) | 01:38 |
| sabdfl | poobuntu? | 01:39 |
| sabdfl | nah | 01:39 |
| jamesh | pitti: sure. Go ahead | 01:39 |
| pitti | jamesh: thanks. | 01:39 |
| jamesh | pitti: if you are interested, a snapshot of my code is here: http://www.gnome.org/~jamesh/drivemount-new-20041014.tar.gz | 01:40 |
| pitti | jamesh: nice! How is it installed, is it kind of a daemon? | 01:41 |
| pitti | jamesh: so just run the program in the background? | 01:41 |
| jamesh | pitti: at the moment it is just an application. | 01:41 |
| jamesh | pitti: the plan is to replace the old drivemount applet with that code. | 01:41 |
| === |trey| [~trey@ip68-230-75-109.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| jamesh | pitti: It is using the same APIs as Nautilus to list, mount and unmount volumes | 01:42 |
| jamesh | so when I tell it to unmount the cdrom drive, Nautilus closes all the open windows for that volume too. | 01:42 |
| pitti | jamesh: so gnome-vfs2; sounds sane | 01:42 |
| pitti | jamesh: and the "current" one uses its own stuff? | 01:43 |
| jamesh | yeah. | 01:43 |
| pitti | jamesh: nice, then it should automatically use pmount | 01:43 |
| jamesh | pitti: the current one just calls mount and umount | 01:43 |
| jamesh | pitti: which also means that it can't unmount any volume with a trash directory (because of the dnotify watches) | 01:43 |
| pitti | jamesh: btw, I think this is the same with gnome-volume-manager; it shouldn't need an extra pmount patch, but it does ATM | 01:43 |
| pitti | oh, right | 01:44 |
| jamesh | pitti: my new code worked flawlessly on Ubuntu with the USB keys I tried | 01:44 |
| jamesh | so yes, it is working with pmount properly | 01:46 |
| pitti | jamesh: just tried it | 01:46 |
| pitti | jamesh: works nice! | 01:46 |
| pitti | jamesh: and as an applet this will be integrated into the panel, I guess | 01:46 |
| jamesh | yes. | 01:47 |
| pitti | jamesh: it's just a little disturbing to see five identical icons :-) | 01:47 |
| jamesh | pitti: it is asking gnome-vfs for the icon names, actually. | 01:47 |
| pitti | jamesh: I saw that the names appear as bubble help | 01:48 |
| jamesh | pitti: so if gnome-vfs provided different icon names, the applet would display different icons :) | 01:48 |
| pitti | jamesh: maybe Hoary's call can tell the drive types apart and we have different symbols for USB keys | 01:48 |
| pitti | jamesh: s/call/hal/ | 01:48 |
| pitti | jamesh: I think I have seen sth about this on some utopia list | 01:48 |
| sjoerd | gnome-vfs+hal icons are a lot nicer | 01:49 |
| jamesh | pitti: on Fedora there is an updfstab program (part of kudzu), and it uses the product names to guess the device type | 01:50 |
| jamesh | pitti: it isn't perfect though, since if it doesn't find a matching entry in the config file, it sometimes doesn't end up mounting the drive ... | 01:50 |
| jamesh | (whereas the same USB key just works on Ubuntu) | 01:51 |
| pitti | nice to hear :-) | 01:51 |
| pitti | although I still get far too many "my drive is not mounted" bugs | 01:51 |
| pitti | although most of them are now kernel bugs | 01:51 |
| jamesh | the Fedora code also tries to classify different mass storage devices (eg. if it is a camera) | 01:52 |
| pitti | jamesh: hmm, g-v-m should take care of that in U | 01:52 |
| jamesh | which can really only be done by matching product names | 01:53 |
| pitti | jamesh: we currently use the presence of a dcim/ folder | 01:53 |
| pitti | jamesh: quite hackish, but works well so far | 01:53 |
| jamesh | yep. | 01:53 |
| pitti | jamesh: plug in a camera, see gthumb automatically open | 01:53 |
| jamesh | pitti: that also has the benefit that if you pull the memory card out of a camera and plug it into a card reader, it treats it the same as plugging in the camera. | 01:54 |
| pitti | jamesh: right | 01:54 |
| pitti | jamesh: a friend of mine was pretty impressed as he saw this work with his pcmcia card reader :-) | 01:55 |
| jamesh | so even when it misdetects something as a camera, it provides an option that the user probably wants :) | 01:55 |
| lamont | anyone test http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/20041019-03/warty-live-i386.iso yet? | 02:17 |
| fabbione | lamont: downloading now | 02:26 |
| fabbione | i guess rsync is not worth... | 02:26 |
| lamont | rsync is useless for this | 02:27 |
| fabbione | ETA 40 min | 02:27 |
| fabbione | at what time is the meeting today? | 02:31 |
| fabbione | 16:00 UTC? | 02:31 |
| thom | uh, what meeting? | 02:31 |
| fabbione | Tech Board | 02:31 |
| fabbione | yeah it's at 16 UTC | 02:32 |
| fabbione | WHOO | 02:33 |
| === kylem_ is now known as kylem | ||
| === lamont must drive children too school. back in about 90 minutes | ||
| fabbione | i need some extra crack :-) | 02:35 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| daniels | four and a half hours? | 02:36 |
| Kamion | ETA 3:08; sigh | 02:36 |
| === daniels decides that staying up for TB is an impossibility. | ||
| daniels | thom: wanna pick me up from the airport at 5:25? :P | 02:36 |
| thom | no, not really :P | 02:36 |
| daniels | i seem to bring all the red-eyes | 02:37 |
| === daniels kicks IE in the nads. | ||
| daniels | XP and IE are horrific. and I haven't got the softmodem working on the X40, and our USB ACM support is broken. yay! | 02:39 |
| fabbione | daniels: you want to take a look at 060_ | 02:40 |
| fabbione | daniels: and probably push it upstream | 02:40 |
| === daniels stares at IE's SSL support. | ||
| daniels | fabbione: yeah | 02:40 |
| daniels | (so-called 'support') | 02:40 |
| daniels | fabbione: will do | 02:41 |
| fabbione | daniels: i am talking about X.org | 02:42 |
| fabbione | not Xfree86 | 02:42 |
| fabbione | all the manpages where missing info :P | 02:42 |
| fabbione | just small details.. | 02:42 |
| daniels | fabbione: huh? | 02:43 |
| daniels | fabbione: are you saying you want me to push xfree86's #060 upstream? | 02:43 |
| fabbione | no | 02:43 |
| daniels | ok ... | 02:43 |
| fabbione | i said push my 060 from X.org to X.org | 02:43 |
| daniels | is that in the xsf tree? | 02:43 |
| fabbione | yes | 02:43 |
| fabbione | committed 2 minutes ago | 02:44 |
| daniels | can you please put it up on rookery or something? | 02:44 |
| daniels | i'm on dialup here | 02:44 |
| fabbione | daniels: sure | 02:44 |
| fabbione | ahhh | 02:44 |
| fabbione | daniels: people/~fabbione/060_fix_XOrgManDefs.diff | 02:45 |
| daniels | thanks dude | 02:45 |
| fabbione | daniels: XORGRELSTRING is never defined | 02:46 |
| fabbione | same as the other one | 02:46 |
| fabbione | and the way in which the string is built is generally wrong | 02:46 |
| fabbione | that's a simple fix | 02:46 |
| fabbione | but there are better than that one | 02:46 |
| fabbione | just don't ask me to do one NOW | 02:46 |
| daniels | fabbione: ah thanks, I'll commit that | 02:47 |
| fabbione | check it first :-) | 02:47 |
| fabbione | just see man pages ike security._man | 02:48 |
| fabbione | or X.Org | 02:48 |
| fabbione | and see how it changes with that patch | 02:48 |
| daniels | yeahRSE, I HATE XP | 02:50 |
| daniels | yeah | 02:50 |
| daniels | oh my god, go away. ARGH! | 02:50 |
| daniels | 'you're obviously blind. would you lie me to read everything aloud?') | 02:51 |
| mjg59 | daniels: ? | 02:55 |
| daniels | mjg59: seemingly, every time I press something, the frigging Narrator dialog box comes up (well, THREE of them) | 02:56 |
| daniels | and I've had about 4 other a11y-related things pop upa t me | 02:56 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === tuo2 [~foo@adsl-36-114.swiftdsl.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| lamont | fabbione: word? | 03:57 |
| fabbione | lamont: ? | 03:59 |
| fabbione | excel? | 03:59 |
| lamont | livecd | 03:59 |
| fabbione | oh right! | 04:00 |
| fabbione | i forgot to burn it :P | 04:00 |
| === Mithrandir chuckles | ||
| fabbione | lamont: doing it now.. sorry.. got sucked in X.org documentation | 04:00 |
| fabbione | at least that package is almost done | 04:01 |
| lamont | heh | 04:01 |
| lamont | Kamion: 1659 - so hwclock.sh should modprobe rtc, eh? | 04:01 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| fabbione | lamont: i can still read "welcome to MOrphix" | 04:33 |
| === fabbione-live [~warty@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione-live | well it boots :) | 04:36 |
| fabbione-live | but it`s odd because the fb goes up to 1600x1200 | 04:36 |
| fabbione-live | X no | 04:36 |
| fabbione-live | hmm we can do better for hoary | 04:38 |
| lamont | fabbione-live: where is the 'Welcome to Morphix"? | 04:39 |
| lamont | which screen, that is. | 04:39 |
| fabbione-live | at the boot | 04:39 |
| fabbione-live | before it switches to fb mobe | 04:40 |
| lamont | ah, ok. | 04:40 |
| lamont | not the grub splash, and not the fb-mode stuff, but rather that short amount of text inbetween. | 04:40 |
| fabbione-live | correct | 04:40 |
| lamont | mdz awake yet? | 04:43 |
| === pitti [~martin@195.227.105.180] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| fabbione-live | lamont: is there anything special you want me to test? | 04:45 |
| lamont | fabbione-live: well, everything. But prior to asking on ubuntu-users, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't process-b0rked. (bulk download here would take over a day, or cost me money...) | 04:46 |
| lamont | and still take 6 hours | 04:46 |
| fabbione-live | well... the games work <g> | 04:47 |
| fabbione-live | hmmm interesting | 04:49 |
| fabbione-live | it uses automatically a swap if it finds it | 04:49 |
| === lamont is reminded of the good old days, when he got paid to play rogue | ||
| lamont | yeagh | 04:49 |
| fabbione-live | that means that if i suspend to disk using the swap partition i will lose my session | 04:49 |
| lamont | I expect so | 04:50 |
| fabbione-live | lamont: is there any option available for the user to avoid it? | 04:53 |
| fabbione-live | the grub session is simply too fast to have the time to read | 04:53 |
| lamont | fabbione-live: dunno | 04:54 |
| === x4m [~max@68.157-200-80.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === fabbione-live [~warty@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| lamont | hit a key during that 5 second window | 04:56 |
| === lamont grabs bugzilla and beats it against the wall | ||
| fabbione | lamont: the problem is that sometimes my screen takes more than 5 secs to sync the freq | 04:59 |
| fabbione | and i can barely see the grub stuff | 04:59 |
| lamont | fabbione: you need a better screen, obviously. :-) | 04:59 |
| lamont | reboot, pause a few seconds, and then begin a rythmic tattoo on the shift key | 05:00 |
| lamont | :-) | 05:00 |
| fabbione | ahha | 05:00 |
| fabbione | any preferred song to follow? | 05:00 |
| lamont | shave and a hair cut is too short.. :_) | 05:01 |
| lamont | something with a good beat, obviously. | 05:01 |
| fabbione | you know.. Metallica might lead to the BIOS error: "Error detecting the keyboard. Please press F1 to boot" | 05:01 |
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Kamion | lamont: maybe only on architectures that have it, or maybe hwclock itself should do it in the code paths where it's about to access /dev/rtc | 05:28 |
| lamont | Kamion: could blindly modprobe it though, yes? | 05:30 |
| Kamion | s' probably OK, I think I'd be more comfortable with doing it only when it's needed | 05:31 |
| Kamion | (powerpc doesn't have rtc, wouldn't want to generate bogus error output there) | 05:31 |
| Kamion | but whatever flies :) | 05:31 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: any sign of those artwork packages? | 05:35 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: nothing on warty-changes | 05:37 |
| === T-Bone [varenet@T-Bone.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === sivang [~sg@80.179.93.130.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === AndyFitz [~andy@220.245.97.227] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| mdz | morning | 05:53 |
| T-Bone | evening ;) | 05:53 |
| mdz | Kamion: go ahead with jigit, you're best equipped to know when it's ready | 05:53 |
| fabbione | hey mdz | 05:56 |
| Kamion | yerk, we don't have wdiff in main? | 05:56 |
| fabbione | mdz: please discard my last mail | 05:56 |
| Kamion | mdz: ok, looking at it now | 05:56 |
| pitti | meeting time | 06:00 |
| fabbione | yup | 06:01 |
| === x4m [~max@246.154-136-217.adsl.skynet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| pitti | mdz: sabdfl wants you in #u-meeting | 06:06 |
| === [Clint] [~c123p456@user-12hdtek.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-1-168.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lucas_ | Hi, I need some help understanding the Ubuntu install process to fix a broken installation. | 06:43 |
| lucas_ | After the reboot, how does the installer determines the packages he has to install ? | 06:43 |
| lucas_ | (and which module of the installer does this work ?) | 06:43 |
| daniel_lunch | lucas_, i guess it's the ubuntu-*-packages it installs | 06:47 |
| __daniel | but i'm no ubuntu developer | 06:47 |
| lucas_ | root@dell ~ # dpkg -l ubuntu-*-packages | 06:48 |
| lucas_ | Aucun paquet ne correspond ubuntu-*-packages. | 06:48 |
| thom | bsae-config is the package that does the work after the first reboot | 06:49 |
| __daniel | dpkg -l | grep ^"ii ubuntu" ---> ubuntu-artwork, ubuntu-base, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-sounds | 06:49 |
| lucas_ | thanks | 06:50 |
| lucas_ | I don't understand why dpkg -l ubuntu-* fails to list them | 06:50 |
| __daniel | because it literally looks for "ubuntu-*" | 06:50 |
| === maarf [~ob@165.80-203-182.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| Keybuk | lucas_: dselect update | 06:51 |
| __daniel | ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-base should imho suffice | 06:51 |
| T-Bone | lucas_: maybe 'dpkg -l "ubuntu-*"' | 06:51 |
| lucas_ | __daniel: dpkg -l | --list package-name-pattern ... | 06:51 |
| lucas_ | List packages matching given pattern. | 06:51 |
| T-Bone | with the quotes | 06:51 |
| T-Bone | otherwise your shell expands the "*" | 06:52 |
| lucas_ | T-Bone: I thought of that | 06:52 |
| T-Bone | but i guess that's more a #ubuntu discussion | 06:52 |
| lucas_ | I'll install ubuntu-desktop, thanks | 06:52 |
| lucas_ | yeah, now it is :) | 06:52 |
| __daniel | T-Bone, i didnt want to leave it unanswered | 06:53 |
| lucas_ | (btw dpkg -l "ubuntu-*" is still broken. never mind.) | 06:54 |
| T-Bone | [varenet@daffy ~] $ dpkg -l "ubuntu-*" | grep ii | 06:55 |
| T-Bone | ii ubuntu-artwork 0.2.11-1 Ubuntu themes and artwork | 06:55 |
| Keybuk | lucas_: dselect update | 06:55 |
| lucas_ | Keybuk: did it | 06:55 |
| lucas_ | ok, found the problem | 06:56 |
| Keybuk | you should be able to dpkg -l on available but not installed then | 06:56 |
| lucas_ | wrong xterm | 06:56 |
| lucas_ | I just won the price | 06:56 |
| === lucas_ is going to ban himself from #ubuntu-devel for the next few months ;) | ||
| lucas_ | bye | 06:57 |
| === lucas_ [~lucas@ca-grenoble-1-168.w80-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #ubuntu-devel [] | ||
| === michiel_ [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === michiel_ [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Bezig] | ||
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| elmo | has anyone had any problems with postgres and HT? | 07:29 |
| elmo | (does anyone even use postgres in warty with a HT machine?) | 07:29 |
| T-Bone | lol | 07:29 |
| === Keybuk warms rookery up a little *cackle* | ||
| === daf [daf@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === T-Bone is now known as T-Gone | ||
| sivang | elmo : do you want someone to use it ? :) | 07:58 |
| sivang | elmo : I'll install it right away if you need | 07:58 |
| Kamion | people have confirmed ipw2100/ipw2200 to work in the installer, haven't they? | 07:58 |
| === Kamion eyes http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport | ||
| mdz | lamont: so, live CD | 08:04 |
| mdz | lamont: what has changed since last night? | 08:04 |
| mdz | Kamion: they have? | 08:04 |
| mdz | it appeared in the list, but I didn't actually test bringing it up | 08:04 |
| mdz | I'll do that in my next test | 08:04 |
| Kamion | thanks | 08:05 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: ipw2200 is still busted on the test laptop, but stays busted even with a compile of the latest module and firmware | 08:06 |
| sabdfl | bizarrely it did work at one stage but i haven't had the bandwidth to keep up | 08:06 |
| lamont | mdz: 20041019-03 had the newest kernel, -ttf-baekmuk. 20041019-18 is +ttf-bakemuk -win.celestia | 08:07 |
| mdz | lamont: what about the sound issue? | 08:07 |
| mdz | Oct 18 18:11:00 <lamont> mdz: building a new liveCD candidate for you: updated sound detection (we hope...), and slight changes to look more like base/supported seeds | 08:07 |
| mdz | lamont: was that 1019-03? | 08:07 |
| lamont | yep | 08:08 |
| lamont | so it's pester alex time | 08:08 |
| === inklingx [~inklingx@u212-239-167-156.adsl.pi.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | but not in IM. :-( | 08:08 |
| mako | are we goig to need another release announcment? | 08:09 |
| mako | i think the delta from the RC announcment will be relatively small | 08:10 |
| lamont | mdz: But I'd like to push 1019-03 to ubuntu-users for exposure, with the caveat that sound is likely busted | 08:10 |
| mdz | lamont: absolutely, you said you were doing that last night | 08:10 |
| mdz | mako: yes, we are | 08:10 |
| mdz | sabdfl: should we hype up the final release announcement a bit, now that it's not vapour? | 08:10 |
| lamont | mdz: was waiting for a boot check, got that this AM, wondered if anyone wanted to review the mail to u-u before I sent it... | 08:10 |
| mdz | hmm, we're in DWN this week | 08:11 |
| mdz | due to this: http://www.advogato.org/person/mbanck/diary.html?start=24 | 08:11 |
| Kamion | seb128: gataxx is still broken on amd64; I've got it network-connected now so I'm trying to debug | 08:13 |
| mako | it was a pretty good writeup | 08:13 |
| mako | i'm glad DWN picked it up :) | 08:14 |
| lamont | Kamion: can you fix the iso/bt info? looks like Thom got the wrong image... | 08:14 |
| mako | azeem: good work sir :) | 08:14 |
| mdz | mako: agreed | 08:14 |
| Kamion | lamont: no, he didn't put it on little | 08:14 |
| lamont | it's on cdimage. | 08:15 |
| Kamion | lamont: which means it will very likely be deleted next cdimage sync | 08:15 |
| Kamion | lamont: cdimage == auckland | 08:15 |
| lamont | you want to put it on little and sync? | 08:15 |
| lamont | or is that really a thombot thing? | 08:15 |
| seb128 | Kamion: still segfault ? | 08:15 |
| Kamion | yup, grabbing now | 08:15 |
| lamont | p.u.o/~lamont/testing/LiveCD/current/warty-live-i386-20041019-18.iso | 08:16 |
| seb128 | weird I've tested the fix on an amd64 box it was ok | 08:16 |
| Kamion | seb128: right | 08:16 |
| Kamion | lamont: what's broken with the image again? | 08:16 |
| lamont | you mean known bugs? | 08:16 |
| lamont | the image he grabbed won't fit on a 650MB CD. | 08:16 |
| Kamion | lamont: no, "fix the iso/bt info" <-- that | 08:16 |
| Kamion | oh, I just need to refresh it? | 08:16 |
| lamont | yes | 08:16 |
| Kamion | ok | 08:17 |
| lamont | might not hurt to give it some more version-ish infrastreucture than sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386.iso, too. | 08:17 |
| Kamion | yup, I'll give it the same filename you did | 08:17 |
| Kamion | won't bother with anything more involved for this | 08:17 |
| === lamont updates his announcement | ||
| mdz | lamont: acpid is not running on the live CD | 08:19 |
| mdz | that means no totally rad laptop support | 08:19 |
| thom | lamont: i got the one you told me to | 08:19 |
| lamont | thom:yeah, I screwed up the symlink | 08:19 |
| lamont | mdz: is that RC? | 08:19 |
| thom | putting it on little will be the best bet going forward | 08:19 |
| Kamion | thom: did you exclude /sounder-test/live/ from syncage or something? | 08:20 |
| mdz | lamont: not a showstopper, but it should be on the list | 08:20 |
| Kamion | I did a sync-mirrors but it doesn't seem to be appearing | 08:20 |
| lamont | mdz: right | 08:20 |
| lamont | but this sync means that I can drop the ttf-baekmuk issue | 08:21 |
| Kamion | gtk_gridboard_clear_pixmaps (widget=0x607d20) at gtkgridboard.c:530 | 08:21 |
| Kamion | 530 gridboard->pixmaps[x] [y] =get_pixmap_num(EMPTY); | 08:21 |
| Kamion | seb128: ^- | 08:21 |
| thom | Kamion: it's probably root owned | 08:22 |
| thom | one sec | 08:22 |
| Kamion | seb128: gridboard->pixmaps[x] is NULL | 08:22 |
| lamont | mdz: I could just file bugs for some of them... do we have a LiveCD component yet? | 08:22 |
| mdz | lamont: just file them against whatever and assign to alextreme | 08:22 |
| lamont | right | 08:22 |
| mdz | lamont: did you verify that -celestia +ttf-baekmuk was <=650M? | 08:22 |
| seb128 | Kamion: you have the crash when you run it ? | 08:23 |
| Kamion | seb128: yes | 08:23 |
| thom | Kamion: ownership changed | 08:23 |
| seb128 | arg | 08:23 |
| Kamion | seb128: you called the patch .crash | 08:23 |
| seb128 | Kamion: I've named the patch .crash instead of .patch | 08:23 |
| Kamion | :-) | 08:23 |
| seb128 | damnit | 08:23 |
| seb128 | Kamion: I'll fix it now | 08:24 |
| === Kamion does a test build to verify | ||
| seb128 | still a time to do an upload ? | 08:24 |
| Kamion | Trying patch debian/patches/01_gridboard.patch at level 0...1...2...failure. | 08:24 |
| Kamion | mdz: does seb128 have time? | 08:24 |
| Kamion | seb128: you missed out a leading space from the 'for' line | 08:26 |
| seb128 | yeah, I've fixed it here | 08:27 |
| amu | lamont: new iso is ready ? | 08:27 |
| seb128 | ready to upload if we have time | 08:27 |
| Kamion | seb128: I'd just go, don't think new artwork has been uploaded anyway | 08:27 |
| amu | ...live-iso | 08:27 |
| lamont | mdz: yes. | 08:28 |
| lamont | mdz: issue was I had a bad symlink, and thom fetched the wrong iso. hence explicit naming is a good thing,. | 08:28 |
| seb128 | Kamion: ok | 08:28 |
| Kamion | thom: syncing again | 08:28 |
| === sabdfl [~mark@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| lamont | amu: as soon as kamion/thom get done with it, it'll be at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/sounder-test/live/warty-live-i386-20041019-18.iso.torrent | 08:29 |
| lamont | (or without the .torrent) | 08:29 |
| lamont | amu: how's your overall bandwidth situation? | 08:29 |
| Kamion | lamont,amu: done, with .torrent | 08:29 |
| lamont | net bandwidth | 08:29 |
| Kamion | seb128: works for me with those changes | 08:30 |
| seb128 | ok, cool | 08:30 |
| amu | ok d'l ... takes 30min. | 08:30 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | amu: lamont mentioned you had compiled a list of live CD issues, could you send me a copy? | 08:34 |
| amu | mdz: a very quick & dirty thing, i tested it from the view as a user. There are many many more things :) | 08:36 |
| seb128 | mdz: still time for the gnome-games fixe ? | 08:36 |
| mdz | seb128: bug#? | 08:36 |
| Kamion | seb128: #2345 | 08:37 |
| Kamion | oops | 08:37 |
| Kamion | mdz: ^- | 08:37 |
| Kamion | patch wasn't applied properly | 08:37 |
| seb128 | mdz: it's closed, I've missnamed the .patch and it didn't get applied | 08:37 |
| mdz | seb128: ok, quickly | 08:37 |
| seb128 | thanks | 08:38 |
| seb128 | done | 08:38 |
| amu | mdz: send | 08:39 |
| mdz | amu: I haven't received anything via email, but lamont gave me a summary on IRC | 08:44 |
| lamont | mdz: those were the RC bugs I gave you.. | 08:45 |
| mdz | that's all I'm interested in at this time | 08:45 |
| lamont | ok. just forwarded amu's mail to @a.n | 08:46 |
| amu | Oct 19 20:40:42 bofh postfix/smtp[14768] : BBA518632A: to=<mdz@canonical.com>, relay=fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com[82.211.81.145] , delay=2, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 35238B6801B) | 08:46 |
| lamont | just in case you want to upgrade any of them | 08:46 |
| pitti | sjoerd: easy fix, he was not in the plugdev group :-) | 08:47 |
| sjoerd | pitti: ah | 08:47 |
| === lamont must run a quick errand. bbiab | ||
| amu | mdz: you need more input for hoary ? | 08:52 |
| mdz | amu: ? | 08:53 |
| amu | bug ( usability ) reports | 08:54 |
| sivang | strange, | 08:54 |
| sivang | i get rejected by tracker error when trying to download lamont | 08:54 |
| mdz | amu: warty is our highest priority right now | 08:54 |
| sivang | 's new iso | 08:54 |
| amu | mdz: did you get my mail now ? | 08:54 |
| sivang | anybody a clue? | 08:54 |
| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:mdz] : Ubuntu development -- general discussion on #ubuntu | Happy Ubuntu Artwork week! | 13 (count 'em) major bugs | BE THE SIGNAL | Warty release is TOMORROW | ||
| mdz | amu: no | 08:56 |
| amu | mdz: stange, my log told me, it's delivered, kick your postmaster *g* | 08:57 |
| mdz | amu: there are 4 hops between your relay and me | 08:59 |
| amu | ..ooO my homenet | 09:00 |
| === enrico [~enrico@enrico.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| sivang | hi enrico! | 09:00 |
| mako | enrico: hey there | 09:01 |
| enrico | sivang: hello! | 09:01 |
| sivang | enrico : finally got my network working | 09:01 |
| === gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| gma | anybody had any experiences of getting black screens when running X on a dell laptop? even my old (working) config file doesn't seem to make any difference | 09:05 |
| gma | (otherwise, I'm a new user and love it) | 09:05 |
| gma | I plugged a monitor into my laptop and could get X working fine, so it might be something to do with the 1400x1050 TFT. | 09:07 |
| gma | I'm asking on here as I thought some of you guys might be interested in more info, which I'd happily provide if you told me what needs doing. the laptop is a few years old though (inspiron 5000), so may not be a priority for warty... | 09:08 |
| === chrisa|dl [~chris@freedom.cis.ohio-state.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === madduck [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| madduck | hi... can someone tell me why http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaintainerCandidates is "immutable"? | 09:09 |
| madduck | i wanted to add myself... | 09:09 |
| sivang | madduck : have you created a login? | 09:10 |
| sivang | madduck : you need to create a wiki name / login before | 09:10 |
| chrisa|dl | What does ubuntu use in place of debian's 'menu' package? | 09:10 |
| madduck | okay. makes sense. i missed the tiny buttons on the top. | 09:10 |
| sivang | madduck : I'm sure it happend to everyone at start :) | 09:11 |
| === ggi [~ggi@ggi.base.supporter.pdpc] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| sivang | any of the desktop gurus, has the app switcher thingy that used to exist on the right upper corner been custumized removed from Ubuntu Desktop? | 09:12 |
| sivang | (i can't find it) | 09:12 |
| chrisa|dl | It's called "Window Selector" isn't it? | 09:13 |
| sivang | yes it is | 09:13 |
| sivang | sorry for that | 09:13 |
| sivang | :) | 09:13 |
| chrisa|dl | heh, your turn. I notice applications like gvim seem to get no menu entry | 09:13 |
| enrico | mako: around? | 09:16 |
| thom | chrisa|dl: yes, we're trying to keep the number of things in the menu as minimal as possible | 09:17 |
| chrisa|dl | thom: I figured as much | 09:18 |
| chrisa|dl | It never occurred to me that gnome seems to lack a simple menu editting interface | 09:18 |
| pitti | chrisa|dl: what about applications:/// | 09:22 |
| === gma [~graham@capella.plus.com] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| mako | enrico: yes, i'm around | 09:38 |
| mako | enrico: was taking a shower :) | 09:38 |
| Kamion | mdz: I've uploaded jigit. OK to add to Supported? | 09:46 |
| Kamion | it's managed to grab an ISO correctly for me | 09:46 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | Kamion: yes | 09:55 |
| Kamion | done | 09:58 |
| === doogie [~adam@brown.brainfood.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === doogie looks for ubuntu developers/maintainers who are also debian maintainers | ||
| === jvw [jeroen@233pc233.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === braindmg [~guillem@braindmg.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| thom | crikey, it's the #debian-devel invasion | 10:05 |
| doogie | that's not the reason I joined. | 10:05 |
| thom | no, but the grouping was scary :-) | 10:06 |
| doogie | you're on #debian-devel, so can see my messages | 10:06 |
| thom | doogie: there are quite a number of ubuntu maintainers who are d-ds | 10:06 |
| doogie | yes, I know. | 10:07 |
| === maskie [~maskie@196-30-110-64.uudial.uunet.co.za] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| amu | $"%$!$! I need once a time a year a printer, exactly then it does not run | 10:10 |
| Kamion | mdz: did Keybuk tell you what he was doing with his ubuntu-artwork packages? | 10:17 |
| mdz | Kamion: no | 10:18 |
| mdz | is he asleep? | 10:18 |
| Kamion | apparently so | 10:18 |
| === lamont returns | ||
| === Kamion is tempted to ring him and try to wake him up | ||
| Kamion | 19:55 < Keybuk> right, I'm going to crash | 10:18 |
| Kamion | 19:56 -!- Keybuk [scott@descent.netsplit.com] has quit ["Leaving"] | 10:18 |
| seb128 | " * prepared and uploaded new ubuntu-artwork package" | 10:19 |
| seb128 | perhaps the upload got rejected ? | 10:20 |
| Kamion | must have done ... | 10:21 |
| chrisa | Does ubuntu have something similar to packages.debian.org? | 10:21 |
| lamont | chrisa: not exactly... | 10:21 |
| Kamion | it *seems* to be in chinstrap:~scott/ | 10:22 |
| === Kamion ponders dputting that, but I think I should test it first :) | ||
| chrisa | lamont: hrm, any easy way to check if a package is in the archive without having apt handy? | 10:22 |
| lamont | http://people.ubuntulinux.org/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists has wanna-build dumps | 10:22 |
| lamont | and the log files are under buildLogs/.... | 10:22 |
| doogie | is there a list of all existing ubuntu maintainers? | 10:22 |
| lamont | doogie: dunno if that's on the wiki yet or not | 10:23 |
| doogie | why would it be on a wiki? | 10:23 |
| lamont | because everything else is? | 10:23 |
| Kamion | we have nowhere else convenient to put it :) | 10:23 |
| doogie | link from the website? | 10:24 |
| === asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] | ||
| Kamion | the wiki is where we do this sort of thing | 10:25 |
| lamont | chrisa: the w-b output is, of course, by source package | 10:32 |
| amu | lamont: http://amu.debian.net/tmp/linux.png | 10:33 |
| lamont | amu: ew | 10:35 |
| lamont | did anyone see my mail to ubuntu-users? | 10:35 |
| === asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === lamont considers the day when his mail server won't require a keyboard | ||
| === Kamion gets in touch with Keybuk; I'll take care of the u-a upload, since I now know what to do | ||
| mako | how about a minimum system req faq entry | 10:40 |
| === Kamion promises not to fall victim to the ubuntu-artwork falling-asleep curse :) | ||
| enrico | About the Wiki: can I make hierarchical wiki links in this MoinMoin? If yes, what is the syntax? | 10:40 |
| mako | enrico: you can make pages with /'s in them | 10:41 |
| enrico | mako: So, a link like Foo/Bar will work and be regognized? | 10:41 |
| mako | enrico: yes, if you do the link specification stuff | 10:41 |
| enrico | mako: k, thanks! | 10:42 |
| chrisa | So if ubuntu took a snapshot of sid to start out before applying package modifications and such, how are credits with the original debian package maintainers handled? | 10:42 |
| Kamion | chrisa: can you clarify what you mean? | 10:43 |
| chrisa | Kamion: I think I answered my own question by looking in the buildd logs. I was curious how the Maintainer: field was being handled on packages taken from sid | 10:46 |
| chrisa | Looks like Warty/${ARCH} Build Daemon becomes the maintainer | 10:47 |
| lamont | chrisa: see also the Maintainer field on any non-maintainer-uploaded arch in debian | 10:49 |
| chrisa | lamont: yeah, that was silly of me | 10:49 |
| Kamion | chrisa: not quite ... | 10:50 |
| Kamion | chrisa: Maintainer: in debian/control != Maintainer: in .changes files | 10:50 |
| Kamion | chrisa: we leave the former alone | 10:50 |
| chrisa | Kamion: As lamont pointed out, I misread ;) | 10:50 |
| Kamion | chrisa: the latter always refers to the entity handling the upload, not the package maintainer | 10:50 |
| Kamion | ok :) | 10:50 |
| chrisa | So 'technically' I maintain some ubuntu packages till someone else updates them ;) | 10:51 |
| lamont | chrisa: even then, you maintain them. | 10:51 |
| lamont | ubuntu doesn't really have a concept of an individual owning a piece of codde | 10:52 |
| Kamion | we add ourselves to the top of debian/changelog, so Changed-By: differs, but apart from that ... | 10:52 |
| lamont | hence we don't mess with debian/control's maintainer: field | 10:52 |
| chrisa | Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how ubuntu snapshots sid then | 10:52 |
| Kamion | we take a copy of all sid's source packages | 10:53 |
| lamont | chrisa: for warty, it was "take a snapshot of all the source packages, as of 2004-06-28. Now build them from source to produce binaries". | 10:53 |
| === asw [~asw@node-423a728a.bos.onnet.us.uu.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| chrisa | ah, so it's something that will occur again in the future | 10:53 |
| === Mitario [~michiel@sikkes.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| chrisa | I was thinking it behaved more like a fork for some reason | 10:54 |
| lamont | well, hoary needs to take the latest sid + warty diffs. the best technical/time-effective way to do that is still the subject of a little discussion | 10:54 |
| chrisa | Last stupid question, is multiverse part of universe? | 10:55 |
| lamont | so the base for release N is current sid, with the diffs from release N-1 merged in. | 10:55 |
| lamont | multiverse is beyond universe | 10:55 |
| chrisa | lamont: That clears that up, thanks | 10:55 |
| lamont | thank you Robert A Heinlein. | 10:55 |
| lamont | multiverse was the term he coined to include a multitude of universes. | 10:55 |
| lamont | so universe is the rest of debian main, multiverse contains things from contrib & non-free, and possibly others | 10:56 |
| chrisa | So for instance, the recent mplayer upload is in multiverse | 10:56 |
| lamont | for instance. | 10:57 |
| Kamion | BUGGER | 10:57 |
| Kamion | thom: around? need help uploading | 10:57 |
| thom | Kamion: um? | 10:57 |
| Kamion | thom: there's a half-complete copy of ubuntu-artwork in the upload queue, which I can't overwrite | 10:57 |
| thom | k, just gonna delete the lot | 10:58 |
| thom | gone | 10:58 |
| chrisa | Kamion / lamont: thanks | 10:59 |
| Kamion | thom: thanks | 10:59 |
| Kamion | hooray | 10:59 |
| Kamion | sabdfl: new artwork uploaded and hopefully building | 10:59 |
| lamont | chrisa: np | 10:59 |
| sabdfl | Kamion: whoop! thanks | 10:59 |
| mdz | Kamion: aha, thanks | 11:00 |
| lamont | Kamion: and you made the :00 cutoff, too. | 11:00 |
| thom | looks like scott uploaded a deb as well, and that make katie throw her toys out of the pram | 11:00 |
| Kamion | w00t | 11:00 |
| Kamion | thom: ah ... that explains it | 11:01 |
| thom | uh, s/make/made | 11:01 |
| thom | me spoke english real good. can do tenses | 11:01 |
| Kamion | you it learn from a book! | 11:01 |
| lamont | thom: tentses | 11:02 |
| Kamion | <JAG> rjk: are you getting bored of filling in all the sections of | 11:02 |
| Kamion | Component Build mails? ;-) | 11:02 |
| Kamion | <rjk> i find your use of the present tense puzzling | 11:02 |
| Kamion | <JAG> Oh dear. Which tenses do you know? | 11:02 |
| === __daniel laugh hardly | ||
| thom | lamont: are those like toeses? | 11:02 |
| lamont | thom: you sleeps in tentses | 11:02 |
| lamont | you stands on toeses | 11:02 |
| thom | Kamion: *giggle* | 11:02 |
| lamont | Kamion: lol | 11:03 |
| enrico | What installation methods are supported for Ubuntu? From CD, from Network, from USB key, from floppy, from magnetic tape, from windows installshield and... ? | 11:04 |
| Kamion | enrico: CD, network, and we sort of support cross-installing from another Unix system with debootstrap | 11:05 |
| Kamion | USB key definitely for Hoary, maybe floppy too | 11:05 |
| enrico | Kamion: "sort of support" means that it shouldn't be documented, I guess? | 11:06 |
| Kamion | well, no, I believe it works and the documentation is useful | 11:06 |
| Kamion | there's no time to change the installation manual further for warty, BTW | 11:06 |
| enrico | Kamion: don't worry, I'm not going to do that | 11:07 |
| Kamion | it's part of the debian-installer package, and rebuilding that is human-time-expensive | 11:07 |
| enrico | Kamion: I was just taking notes for a quickstart guide | 11:07 |
| enrico | Kamion: that can reference the install guide for more info | 11:07 |
| Kamion | when I say "sort of support" I just mean that I haven't tested it all the way through to bringing up an Ubuntu desktop | 11:07 |
| Kamion | the first stage certainly works | 11:07 |
| Kamion | it may require tweaking post-install, though, since it won't do everything that our d-i does. | 11:08 |
| Kamion | thom: do you have any idea about the firefox/j2sdk questions being asked on #ubuntu? | 11:08 |
| enrico | Kamion: I'll leave out the debootstrap for those notes, then. The idea (as I posted to the list) is to have a quickstart that guides you all the way to subscribing to ubuntu-users, or ubuntu-welcome if we want | 11:09 |
| Kamion | lamont: your mail's made it through now | 11:09 |
| Kamion | enrico: we already have one of those, on the web site | 11:09 |
| enrico | Kamion: Plus a troubleshooting part | 11:09 |
| chrisa | crud, the installer didn't recognize any of the partitions on my WD 120GB drive (showed it as one volume, no partitions) | 11:09 |
| enrico | Kamion: link? | 11:09 |
| chrisa | There goes that idea | 11:09 |
| Kamion | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/installation-i386 | 11:09 |
| Kamion | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/installation-amd64 | 11:09 |
| lamont | Kamion: amazing what plugging in a keyboard will do for that server. :( | 11:09 |
| Kamion | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/howto/installation-powerpc | 11:09 |
| enrico | Kamion: thanks! | 11:09 |
| __daniel | Kamion, someone in ubuntu-de said it didn't countain libjavaplugin_oji.so - but he maybe was referring to another java thingie | 11:10 |
| __daniel | Kamion, which package were you talking about? | 11:10 |
| Kamion | enrico: it's not quite as far as you mentioned, but it's clearly the document where that sort of thing should live | 11:10 |
| Kamion | __daniel: I don't know anything about this, I was just asking thom about it since he did most of our recent firefox work | 11:10 |
| mdz | Kamion: are we waiting for u-artwork to build, currently? | 11:11 |
| __daniel | Kamion: right, i'll just ask the guy again | 11:11 |
| enrico | Kamion: are those pages modifiable? | 11:11 |
| Kamion | mdz: yep | 11:12 |
| Kamion | enrico: don't know, to be honest; I'd talk to silbs/lu when they're around, or mail ubuntu-devel@ | 11:12 |
| mdz | Kamion: well-rested, I hope? :-) | 11:12 |
| enrico | Kamion: ok, thanks, I'll write to the list | 11:13 |
| Kamion | mdz: does five hours sleep last night count? | 11:13 |
| mdz | Kamion: no | 11:13 |
| mdz | Kamion: feel like a nap? could be a long night | 11:13 |
| Kamion | I suspect I will try to grab some tonight rather than do the all-nighter thing again | 11:14 |
| mdz | do we have a target for the launch time? | 11:14 |
| thom | Kamion: not on #ubuntu | 11:14 |
| Kamion | ah | 11:14 |
| thom | Kamion: afaik, you need a j2re, which should contain the plugin | 11:14 |
| thom | then you need to smack that into /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins or similar | 11:15 |
| __daniel | Kamion, he didn't download a .deb - so it couldn't work | 11:15 |
| Kamion | just asking him about plugins now | 11:15 |
| __daniel | (because it didnt contain the plugin thingie) | 11:16 |
| thom | note i've never done it | 11:16 |
| thom | i've had quite enough java contamination from sys admin work, no need for more on my desktop :-) | 11:16 |
| lamont | mdz: I will need to be away tonight from ~1630 until 2200 local time (MDT/-0600), although I may be able to skip out on the last half of that. Beyond that, I figure I'm around all night. | 11:17 |
| Mitario | does anyone know a working email addy for michael vogt? (pm) | 11:18 |
| thom | Mitario: Michael Vogt <mvo@debian.org> | 11:20 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091afd.pool.terralink.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === madduck [~madduck@madduck.developer.debian] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === doko [doko@dsl-084-057-020-049.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| === nasdaq4088 [sdfsd@tkp-ip-nas-1-p230.telkom-ipnet.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel | ||
| mdz | Kamion: new ubuntu-artwork is in | 11:39 |
| Kamion | I was just about to check that | 11:39 |
| __daniel | good night | 11:40 |
| Kamion | am I OK to start the CD build? | 11:40 |
| === __daniel [~daniel@td9091afd.pool.terralink.de] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Verlassend"] | ||
| mdz | Kamion: yes | 11:42 |
| Kamion | alrighty, they're on their way | 11:42 |
| jdub | hold on | 11:42 |
| Kamion | uh? | 11:42 |
| jdub | only uploading it now | 11:42 |
| Kamion | what? | 11:42 |
| lamont | jdub woke up? | 11:42 |
| jdub | i'm uploading all the artwork packages atm | 11:43 |
| mdz | jdub: hold on | 11:43 |
| Kamion | jdub: we already uploaded an ubuntu-artwork with the new images as best we could, you'll need to sync with those | 11:43 |
| mdz | jdub: an ubuntu-artwork has already been uploaded | 11:43 |
| jdub | oh | 11:43 |
| Kamion | am I to ctrl-C this build? | 11:43 |
| mdz | hold your fire | 11:43 |
| mdz | Kamion: nah | 11:43 |
| mdz | no harm in having a fresh build | 11:43 |
| Kamion | I don't mind if something supersedes that, but we needed to get something into the archive and didn't know when you'd be around | 11:44 |
| jdub | heh, morning .au time doesn't sound unlikely ;) | 11:44 |
| Kamion | we're already two or three hours behind the time this build was supposed to be ready | 11:44 |
| Kamion | anyway, Keybuk did these packages, but he's gone to sleep now; is more tweaking still required? | 11:46 |
| jdub | well, i consider these the gold release versions | 11:47 |
| Kamion | ok | 11:47 |
| Kamion | I'm off to Kirsten's for a little bit, will be back by the time the new packages are in the archive | 11:48 |
| === T-Gone is now known as T-Bone | ||
| lamont | speaking of artwork... | 11:49 |
| lamont | jdub: any more changes for liveCD grub? | 11:49 |
| jdub | lamont: how did it look? | 11:50 |
| lamont | likewise, clues on how to replace the gnome footprint with somethign else? | 11:50 |
| jdub | oh, stupid arrow bars | 11:50 |
| jdub | which one? | 11:50 |
| lamont | jdub: did you mean for the virtical bars to be multicolored? | 11:50 |
| jdub | no | 11:50 |
| lamont | people.u.o/~lamont/jdub-grub.jpg | 11:50 |
| jdub | yeah, saw earlier | 11:51 |
| jdub | it uses the scrollbar arrows for the bar for some reason | 11:51 |
| jdub | but it's in the same format as the morphix one | 11:51 |
| lamont | looks OK to me... | 11:52 |
| jdub | with that arrow problem, it's bong | 11:53 |
| lamont | gnome splash == the one that says "gnome 2.8" with a footprint, or has the ubuntu logo covering the blonde... | 11:53 |
| lamont | that splash | 11:53 |
| jdub | if that is still appearing on the livecd, we have a problem | 11:54 |
| lamont | the one on the livecd says "gnome2.8" | 11:55 |
| lamont | which is still a problem, of course. | 11:55 |
| jdub | because gnome-session's gconf schema defaults to the u-a symlink | 11:55 |
| jdub | what does 'grep -A 3 splash_image /etc/gconf/schemas/gnome-session.schemas' say on the livecd? | 11:56 |
| lamont | booting | 11:56 |
| lamont | also, still have the globe in the center of the screen shot for the boot splash. | 11:57 |
| jdub | ugh | 11:57 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
